December 1, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 50

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

This afternoon we would like to welcome the following people to our gallery.

The members of the town council of Hant's Harbour, together with Mayor Louise

Tuck, and the local FFAW Union Executive Committee from Harbour Breton in the

District of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, and they are with Eric Day the president,

executive members: Gloria Pierce, Geraldine Skinner and Mike Whittle. Welcome to

the people's House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have members' statements by the

following members: the hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair; the hon. the Member for the District of Trinity-Bay de Verde; the hon.

the Member for the District of Bay of Islands; the hon. the Member for the

District of Bonavista South, and the hon. the Member for the District of Trinity

North.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to honour individuals from my district who have recently won

provincial awards for their excellence in the business community.

Mr. Speaker, Jamie Pye of Forteau, in the beautiful District of Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair, has recently been recognized for his hard work and dedication towards

his business and its operation.

Mr. Speaker, Jamie received the Excellence in Youth Leadership Award for

setting an inspirational example for youth in our Province. Jamie took about the

task of creating his own home-based business developing Web sites and producing

desktop design for many businesses throughout the world.

Also recognized during this ceremony was the Labrador Fishermen's Union

Shrimp Company Limited. They received the excellence in Fostering

Entrepreneurship Award that recognizes an organization or an individual's

distinguished efforts to promote, mentor and to foster entrepreneurship at a

community level.

Mr. Speaker, this company has been a tremendous player in improving the life

of Southern Labradorians and we are very glad that they have been honoured in

this way. I would like to recognize the efforts of their Chair, Frank Flynn, and

their Board of Directors and also the tremendous leadership that it has brought

to the company by their President Gilbert Linstead and their Vice-President, Ken

Fowler.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating both

Jamie Pye and the Labrador Fishermen's Union Shrimp Company Limited on their

recent awards.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, would like to welcome the members of the town council of Hant's

Harbour here today.

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to recognize seventeen-year-old

Courtney Penney of Green's Harbour, who will be bringing Christmas to Costa

Rica kids on December 7.

Courtney was one of two young people selected in the Province to be part of

the Samaritan's Purse/Operation Christmas Child campaign. This project

involves filling shoe boxes with gifts for less fortunate children around the

world. Courtney has been contributing to this campaign for the past several

years. She is a very active volunteer in her community and she has worked at a

summer camp for under-privileged children.

Courtney was sent a video outlining the conditions of Costa Rica. To quote

her, she said, "it was hard to watch the children rummaging through the

garbage and dumps looking for something to eat." She went on to say that

going there to make a difference for those children was an overwhelming feeling

for her.

I ask all hon. members of this House to join me in recognizing Courtney

Penney for her thoughtfulness and compassion for others this holiday season.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon the Member for Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in the House today to recognize a group of individuals from the Town

of Cox's Cove, who took the initiative to form the Cox's Cove Wellness

Foundation.

This Foundation is a non-profit organization recently established in the Town

of Cox's Cove for the sole purpose of helping residents of the town who are

required to travel to other areas of the Province or out of Province for medical

treatment. Various fundraising events have already taken place and the support

from the community has been very positive.

Since its formation this past October, the Foundation has been able to help

ease the financial burden of two individuals having to travel outside the area

for medical purposes, with four other residents scheduled to travel within the

next three weeks. This group saw the increasing need that was in the community

and took steps to be proactive.

I ask all members of the House to join me in recognizing committee

Chairperson Gus Mullins;

Secretary Iris Park; Treasurer Brenda Park, and committee members Holly

Payne, Stephen Goosney and Tim Brown, for demonstrating their true community

spirit and commitment to the residents of Cox's Cove.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker

Mr. Speaker, yesterday saw the first municipal election in the new Town of

Trinity Bay North. Trinity Bay North is comprised of the Towns of Catalina, Port

Union and Melrose. These three towns saw the advantages of regionalization and

decided to combine services and realize greater advantages through government

programs and tax collections.

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate not only the seven successful candidates, but the

other eight candidates as well who offered themselves for election.

Mr. Speaker, the one thing that was certainly gratifying was to see the seven

successful candidates, being the three former mayors, and four former

councillors, being elected to this new council. This was certainly an

endorsement to the decision those same councillors made to amalgamate the three

towns.

I congratulate the three former mayors - Mayor Darryl Johnson, Mayor Tim

Duffett, and Mayor Brendan Peters - on their re-election, as well as former

councillors: Fred Russell, James Mackey, Pauline Stagg and Neville Samson.

As the MHA for the area, I look forward to working with the new council, and

I am certain that each member of this Legislature joins with me in saying

congratulations.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and

Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: In recognition of World AIDS Day, I rise today to acknowledge

the seriousness of one of the greatest medical and social challenges of our

time. On World AIDS Day, we are united to support the individuals, families and

communities affected by this disease. We also renew our commitment to prevent

the spread of HIV/AIDS, to develop more effective treatments, and to find a

cure.

Over the last two decades, AIDS has claimed the lives of more than 20 million

people worldwide. This year's campaign theme is, "Have you heard me

today? Women, Girls, HIV and AIDS". It recognizes that behind these

staggering numbers are the names and faces of increasingly more young girls and

women, especially in Third-World countries.

Here at home, many of you will recall the spirit and talent of Tommy Sexton,

whose courage and openness in battling this disease marked a pivotal moment in

AIDS awareness in Newfoundland and Labrador. Throughout his illness, Tommy

continued to strive to eliminate the stigma and discrimination surrounding the

disease which is still a major obstacle to effective HIV/AIDS prevention and

care.

Today, the Sexton family continue the work their son began. Each year the

family assists in organizing the Tommy Sexton Benefit fundraiser, ensuring that

his legacy continues to contribute to the future of our Province in a very

meaningful way. This year, the benefit will be held on Friday, December 3, at

the Bella Vista.

Mr. Speaker, this is a disease that knows no limits and respects no

boundaries. In our Province over the last twenty years, 230 people have tested

positive with HIV, and ninety-one individuals have reportedly contracted

full-blown AIDS. Families and friends have had to say goodbye to the

seventy-nine people who have lost their life with this disease.

While the number of positive HIV tests have declined in recent years, public

awareness and education are still important in reducing the number of people

exposed to this disease.

To support our struggle against HIV/AIDS our government is actively engaged

in preventive programming in support of the treatment of HIV/AIDS. A joint

committee established in 2002 by the Department of Health and Community Services

and the AIDS Committee of Newfoundland and Labrador continues to oversee a

Newfoundland and Labrador AIDS Strategy and Plan of Action. In collaboration

with community partners, we work to deliver HIV and AIDS services throughout the

Province. Our government assists the AIDS Committee in funding the operation of

a 1-800 line to assist people and support those diagnosed with AIDS with

counselling and education on treatment options, among other things.

Today I encourage all members of the House to wear a symbolic red ribbon and

voice a shared commitment to promote the acceptance of persons living with

HIV/AIDS; to turn the tide against the spread of this disease, bringing hope and

healing to those who are suffering, and finding a cure.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

World AIDS Day is, indeed, a time to unite in support of the many people and

communities around the world that are inflicted and affected by this deadly

disease. I thank the minister for an advanced copy of her statement today.

Mr. Speaker, it saddens me to know that so many people, especially women and

girls, are powerless in fighting this disease in Third World countries. A year

ago I listened to a speech that was given by Bono of U2 as he campaigned for

foreign aid for Africa to fight against the growing cases of HIV and AIDS in

that particular country. His plea in Canada was substantiated by alarming

statistics and real life experiences. While Canada contributes to this

worthwhile cause in Third World countries, I guess the amount of our

contribution is quite small in the context of the problem as it exists around

the world.

I would say to the minister today that we, as a Province, should also support

such causes in Newfoundland and Labrador. I ask the minister, on this occasion,

to give consideration to a proposal that she would have from the AIDS Committee

in Newfoundland and Labrador to increase the capacity of its needle exchange

program because users in that program have increased steadily and the

recommendations of the OxyContin task force was, indeed, to contribute more

money to that particular cause.

Mr. Speaker, studies have shown us that the risk of sharing needles is very

high when it comes to HIV and AIDS and other infectious diseases. So I support

the request that has been tabled in the Department of Health and Community

Services with regard to their proposal.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MS JONES: May I have a couple of minutes to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The member has leave.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I know that the government opposite is serious about doing something in

Newfoundland and Labrador to combat the spread of this disease in our own

Province. I think funding this proposal for the AIDS Society in Newfoundland and

Labrador would be a good first place to start, or a good next step for the

government opposite, and I ask the minister to give it her full consideration.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to join in recognizing World AIDS Day. It is a disease which has

had, and is having, a devastating effect on whole countries in Africa. We know

the work of Stephen Lewis, first as UN Ambassador for Canada, and now a special

envoy on AIDS. He has worked assiduously to ensure that people throughout the

world understand how serious the problem is. We wish that the Government of

Canada would do more to support programs throughout the world, and particularly

in Africa for this terrible disease.

As the minister said, here at home we have seen some reduction over the years

in HIV AIDS, but in the last two years we have seen an increase over 2002, and

most of these new numbers are through heterosexual contact -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's time has expired.

MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. HARRIS: The AIDS Committee is seeing also an increase in contact with

injunction drug use in this Province, and a serious problem that it is. They are

working to increase public awareness, and working with drug users trying to get

a needle exchange program that could reduce the harm that could be caused by HIV

infection. We urge the government to support the AIDS Committee in this work.

They currently have a part-time clinic for HIV testing. That should be supported

by government. We ask that government implement the recommendations of the

OxyContin task force that would assist the AIDS Committee in this work, and this

should be done on a priority basis, given the seriousness of this particular

disease and the methods of transmission.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to advise my hon. colleagues of my appearance yesterday in

Ottawa before the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development

to discuss Bill C-15,

An Act To Amend The Migratory Birds Convention Act And The

Canadian Environmental Protection Act.

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-15 is very significant for the Province of Newfoundland

and Labrador. It addresses this serious issue of marine pollution, as well as

illegal dumping of bilge oil in our oceans.

Illegally discharging bilge oil off our coastlines is an issue that this

government takes very seriously. I have raised this issue several times with the

federal government, including with the previous Minister of Environment, David

Anderson, as well as the current Minister, St phane

Dion, who, as recently as last month, assured myself and my Atlantic

counterparts that this legislation to deal with this issue would be introduced

in the House of Commons. I am pleased, Mr. Speaker, that the bill has received

first reading and is now before the Standing Committee on Environment and

Sustainable Development.

Mr. Speaker, I requested an opportunity to appear before the standing

committee because this government is very supportive of Bill C-15. The bill will

strengthen existing legislation to allow for better protection of our marine

environment through expanded jurisdiction, greater surveillance and enforcement

capability, as well as stiffer fines to offenders, the very things, Mr. Speaker,

that I have been calling on for years.

Mr. Speaker, every year thousands of oiled seabirds are washing ashore, and

are falling victim to reckless polluters of our marine environment. The events

of this week are another reminder of the seriousness of this issue, as hundreds

of seabirds tarnished with bilge oil are turning up in Placentia and St. Mary's

bays. Those responsible for such environmental abuse must be prosecuted to the

fullest extent. During my presentation to the standing committee, I stressed the

importance of ensuring that Bill C-15 is enacted as soon as possible so that the

environmental crime that is occurring off our shores is put to a stop.

Mr. Speaker, I was well received by the standing committee yesterday, and

this Province's involvement and recommendations will assist that committee and

the federal minister in recommending speedy passage of this important

legislation. Mr. Speaker, we will continue to impress upon the federal

government the seriousness of this issue to our Province and all of Atlantic

Canada, and stress, as well, that once Bill C-15 is enacted, appropriate

resources must be put in place to effectively enforce the enhanced legislation.

Mr. Speaker, we will continue to assist the federal government in whatever

way possible in addressing this important issue. This government will work

diligently to ensure the proper protection of our valuable marine environment

for present and future generations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I want to thank the hon.

Minister for a copy of his statement.

While Bill C-15 is an important first step, the federal government needs to

go much further. Ships entering Canadian waters know there is little chance of

getting caught, and if they do get caught the fines that they get amount to

pocket change. According to the International Fund for Animal Welfare, the

largest fine ever handed out for such an offence in Canada is $125,000.

Meanwhile, the U.S.A. and Britain levy fines in the range of half a million

dollars. Is there any wonder ships heading into the Eastern Seaboard of the

United States wait until they get into the Canadian waters before they start

cleaning their bilges? I think this is a first step in terms of cleaning up

particularly Placentia and St. Mary's Bays.

I hope that the minister also, while he was in Ottawa, had an opportunity to

talk to people, because we did have two legal spills in Newfoundland and

Labrador over the last couple of weeks. I hope that he did have the opportunity

to talk to the federal representatives to make sure that he took the position

backed by 95 per cent of the people in Newfoundland and Labrador who demand that

we have independent observers, environmental observers, on our exploration and

production platforms.

I hope that he will come back in the next week or so with an announcement

that this is going to happen on our production platforms.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

With the enormous number of vessels passing through the shipping lanes close

to our shores, this issue is of supreme importance to the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador. I hope, Mr. Speaker, that Bill C-15 straightens out the

jurisdictional problems between the Coast Guard and the Department of

Environment on this issue so that we do not see the farce that we had last year

with one department laying charges and the other department dropping them.

Mr. Speaker, the only effective way to solve this problem of discharge of

bilge water and other pollution is to have an effective deterrent. This does not

happen in the United States, Mr. Speaker, because there is a serious deterrent,

significant fines up to a million dollars enforced regularly by the Coast Guard,

so there is very little bilge water discharged in the U.S. waters because of

that. Until we get serious deterrents and proper enforcement, good surveillance,

we are going to continue to have this kind of problem, Mr. Speaker, and it

should be addressed very quickly.

I hope the minister is satisfied that this bill does the job. Until we see it

in terms of action we will not know, but that is what has to be done: high

fines, proper surveillance, and significant deterrents.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, last night we learned that FPI will no longer operate the

Harbour Breton fish plant under any set of circumstances. Government has not

held the company to their commitments made in 2002, and government refuses to

hold the company to their responsibilities under the FPI Act. Mr. Speaker, the

government's silence obviously means they agree with the business plan put

forward by Mr. Derrick Rowe and FPI.

Mr. Speaker, again I ask the Acting Premier, - I am assuming it is the

Government House Leader - will the government now come clean with the people of

the Province and admit that they agree with FPI's plan to abandon Harbour

Breton, and that they knew about the plan months ago?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have been in extensive discussions with FPI as it relates to

an income trust transaction that was proposed by them back in April, I guess it

was, when we had our first meeting. That has been the nature of the discussion

that we have been in with them for months.

As for the facility at Harbour Breton and the issues related to groundfish

production in general in Newfoundland and Labrador, I suspect that everybody in

this House of Assembly, and just about everybody in the Province, particularly

those who are involved with the industry, know the challenges of the groundfish

industry. We witnessed them over the past two or three years as it related to

Arnold's Cove, and, Mr. Speaker, we worked with those people to find a

solution.

Mr. Speaker, we understand what the situation is in the groundfish industry,

and we refuse to mislead the people of the Province by telling them that it is

anything other than what it is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the value-added and marketing division of FPI is the most

valuable asset of the company. Once this division is sold off, there is very

little protection for other fish plants and workers in the Province. If

government approves this plan, we believe it will be the beginning of the end of

FPI in the Province completely.

Under the FPI Act, Mr. Speaker, government can prevent this sale from

happening. I ask the Acting Premier again: Will this government stand up for the

people of the Province and refuse FPI's request to sell off their value-added

and marketing division, or are they going to continue to sit idly by, as they

have done in the case of Harbour Breton, and allow that company to get out of

the fish processing business all together?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I have said numerous times in this House and outside, we have

been in extensive discussions with FPI on their income trust transaction. We

have asked many, many, many questions as it relates to that proposal. We have

sought undertakings as it relates to that proposal, and we have indicated that

once we have concluded the negotiations with FPI - if we do conclude them - then

we will bring it to the House for a free vote.

Mr. Speaker, that is where it is. That has been articulated many times. Then,

Mr. Speaker, everybody in this House, and everybody in this Province, will have

the opportunity to view the proposal for what it is.

As for getting out of groundfish production or out of fish production in this

Province, Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Leader of the Opposition, where was he

when FPI closed down everything else in the Province?

Mr. Speaker, there is a very serious situation in Harbour Breton and,

unfortunately, the Leader of the Opposition continues to play politics with it

instead of giving people the straight answers and the facts and understanding

what the situation is and what we are up against. When we all understand what we

are up against, then we might find a solution, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, Hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture where I was

when they tried to lay off 700 people two years ago. I was the Premier, we stood

up and it did not happen.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I say again, one of the next steps in the FPI

business plan is to sell off the profitable value-added marketing division to

increase shareholder profits while rural communities shut down, like Harbour

Breton. The Premier says he will not interfere and that personally he does not

see anything wrong with the sell off. He says there will be a free vote, as the

minister just pointed out in this Legislature.

I ask the acting Premier again, Mr. Speaker, when will that free vote occur

so we can all find out how many members on the government side are going to

support the Premier and let them do the sell off and abandon communities like

Harbour Breton, Fortune and Bonavista?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is unfortunate that the Leader of the Opposition, who knows full-well what

this situation is - it is unfortunate that he has not married himself to the

facts for a change. It is unfortunate that he is so careless with the truth.

That is what the problem is here in this debate, Mr. Speaker; that one side will

not let the facts get in the way of a good argument. That is what the trouble is

here in this Province with the fishery.

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, we have said - and if he did not hear

me over the past week-and-a-half, over the past six months on this issue, myself

and the Premier, I said it three minutes ago - that when the negotiations

conclude with FPI it will be brought before this House, there will be a free

vote and a decision will be taken then if we get to that point. If we do not

reach a successful negotiation, then we will not be here with it. It will not

take place. That is the fact of the matter, Mr. Speaker.

Now, Mr. Speaker, if the Leader of the Opposition wants to continue

misleading the people of the Province then he should at least acknowledge that

what he is talking about are not the facts. At least let the people of the

Province know what the situation is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Fisheries as well, and I can tell the

minister that if anybody has misled the people in this Province about FPI, it

has been you.

Mr. Speaker, on January 14, 2002, this Minister of Fisheries and his party

made a commitment to the people of Harbour Breton, and I have it right here on

this piece of paper. They made a commitment that there would be no layoffs at

their FPI plant unless it was negotiated with the union. Last night, I say to

the minister, 350 FPI employees of that town were told to go home, their

services there were no longer required.

I ask him, Mr. Speaker: Did you or your party do anything, anything, to try

and honour the commitment you made to those people two years ago or was that

just another pre-election gimmick like so many other gimmicks that you have

broken your promises on?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind members, when they address their questions, if they could address

them through the Chair rather than directly and pointing at the members to whom

they are directing the question.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, maybe if when the member, who just spoke, did a job as a

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture had dealt with the structural problems

that were in this industry, maybe we would not be confronted with a lot of the

problems that we have today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Maybe if he had taken his job more seriously - unlike the

Leader of the Opposition, we are dealing with the facts.

What did the Leader of the Opposition do two years ago, three years ago, Mr.

Speaker? He saw a parade forming up and he said: There go my people. I must lead

them. That is what he said. Those were the facts of the matter back then. When

the board of FPI changed, what did he say in this House in that chair? He stood

and said: Quite frankly, I did not have enough interest to ask them any

questions but I thanked them for their time and sent them on their way. That is

what he said.

Now, Mr. Speaker, on this issue, I am dealing with the people factually and

honestly. We will work to try and find a solution for Harbour Breton but I will

not stand in front of this House or in front (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister talks about fixing structural problems. I guess by fixing

structural problems you are telling 350 people in Harbour Breton to go home.

That is how you are fixing the structural problems in this industry.

Mr. Speaker, the people of Harbour Breton have been hung out to dry by FPI

and this government. All they have been left with is some vague concept of

starting a co-op. I ask the minister: With no fish plant, no money, no resource

and no fish, how do you propose the co-op is going to work in Harbour Breton?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I will say this, that is exactly the same situation that the

people of St. Anthony found themselves in a few years ago, no plant, no fish and

no company, and we found a way of making it work. We will work with the people

of Harbour Breton to try to find the same thing.

I will ask him this, Mr. Speaker: Without fish, without a plant, who is going

to operate? That is the challenge, Mr. Speaker. He can dance around the issue

all he likes in this House, and outside in the public, and play politics with

it, the fact of the matter is, there is no fish, there is no plant. Is a huge

problem here and we have to work together to try to find a solution. The

solution is not as simple as standing up in this House and saying, order FPI to

build a plant and order FPI to go back into production.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, that it wasn't his

government who helped out the people of St. Anthony, and I also say to the

minister, that the problem in St. Anthony was fixed with a lot of government

money, something that you are not willing to put forward to the people of

Harbour Breton.

Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, he knows, I know, everyone in the fishing

industry knows, that the only hope this town has of surviving in the fishing

industry is if FPI leaves a portion of their quotas in that town.

Will the minister now join with the MP for the area, Mr. Bill Matthews, in

ensuring that FPI leaves part of these quotas in the town for the benefit of the

people of Harbour Breton?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will say to the former Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, that he was

no part of the solution in St. Anthony, and he will be no part of the solution

in Harbour Breton, I suspect. The government money that went into St. Anthony

and the fish that is being processed in St. Anthony is in spite of people like

him.

Mr. Speaker, I will say this: I will work with the people in Harbour Breton,

the federal government, the fishermen's union, and whoever chooses to decide

to work co-operatively with us to find a solution. If part of that is the fish

that is associated with FPI, if that is part of the solution, then, Mr. Speaker,

we will support it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: (Inaudible) part of the company that built it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Vice-President, to be exact.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to welcome the Harbour Breton union committee here to the House as

well today. I am not sure if I am supposed to do it, but I took my key from the

Member for Bay de Verde. She did it, so I guess I can do it as well.

I have concerns about the usefulness and validity of the inspection which was

done by government just a few days ago. Last week, I asked the Minister of

Fisheries and Aquaculture if we could get an independent study of the Harbour

Breton fish plant to check the validity of the report done by the company. The

minister agreed, and Occupational Health and Safety inspectors were sent to the

town.

My question is to the Minister of Government Services. Can the minister

confirm that the structural design engineer that accompanied the team did not

visit the plant because of personal reasons which required him to return to St.

John's, and the only structural design engineers present were the ones hired

by FPI to make the initial inspection?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, we are on this side of the

House; we will decide who answers the questions. They are on that side; they

will decide who asks them.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Once again, Mr. Speaker, I will say this -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture,

and Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As we have seen right on through this, Mr. Speaker, at least there is one

person on that side of the House who takes this matter seriously and asks the

serious questions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: As for the matter being questioned, we will take that under

advisement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. TAYLOR: We will take that under advisement. I do not know what the

answer to that question is, and the minister is unsure of what the answer to

that question is; but, Mr. Speaker, we will check on that and we will certainly

get back to the member on it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la

Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Mr. Speaker, we know that the Harbour Breton fish plant has

deficiencies; we are all aware of that. What we do not know is how much it will

cost to have the plant made safe and operational. If the town is to attract

another operator, this information is vital. Will the minister support the Town

of Harbour Breton in contracting the services of an independent engineering

company so that they can get an accurate assessment of the state of the plant

and the cost of necessary repairs?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I said in this House last week to the hon. member when he

asked whether or not we will be prepared to engage in funding an engineering

study, I said at that time we would first send an Occupational Health and Safety

team into the facility and have a look, and if something like that was required

we would certainly give it serious consideration.

As well, Mr. Speaker, when we met with FPI - myself and the Premier met with

FPI and the FFAW on Monday evening, I believe it was - we indicated that we

thought that it was a worthwhile initiative to pursue an industrial adjustment

services committee, funding for that, to look at the options in Harbour Breton,

the challenges in Harbour Breton, to try and find a way forward. As a part of

that, Mr. Speaker, obviously, as I said last week, determining the integrity of

the structure and the cost of repairs is an integral part of finding a solution.

Mr. Speaker, I can say, I think, without fear of contradiction, that we will

be prepared to do that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.

MR. LANGDON: Thank you.

My last question is to the Minister of Government Services.

Up to this point, the local Occupational Health and Safety Committee of the

Harbour Breton plant has not been permitted to accompany the team doing the

inspections. Will the minister now commit to having a truly independent study of

the facility done and guarantee the local Occupational Health and Safety

Committee from the Harbour Breton plant, that they can accompany the inspection

team as well?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and

Labrador Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, as I guess I sort of suggested before, if it is felt by the

community, by the plant local and by the MHA that there is a need for a further

evaluation of the facility, we will be prepared to engage in that. Personally, I

do not think there is any reason why - there is absolutely no reason why we

would oppose the Occupational Health and Safety Committee of the plant

accompanying the inspection team, and, Mr. Speaker, I cannot see where - at this

stage, FPI certainly should not have any opposition to it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is to the Minister of Education concerning CareerSearch 2004,

which showed, Mr. Speaker, positive trends in the public system, including

Memorial University, the College of the North Atlantic, and the non-profit

journeyperson programs offered through the unions; but, Mr. Speaker, with

respect to the private colleges in this Province there were very disturbing

trends. Because of high tuition, more students must borrow and they end up with

higher debt. They have less employment prospects and receive lower wages,

therefore having a higher default rate on student loans costing this government

in excess of $400,000 per month in default of student loans.

I want to know, Mr. Speaker, when will this minister's government stop

propping up the system through the student loan program, and when will they stop

doing a disservice to students and young people seeking post-secondary education

by giving these institutions credibility as an option for young people?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, yesterday we did release a document,

CareerSearch 2004. Contained in that document is a lot of information that

allows people to make good, informed choices as to what institution they attend,

what program they do. It gives them information about the outcomes, the

employment status, the wages. I say to the hon. member across the way, that is

the accountability piece that we need to make sure that our students who are

going into post-secondary can make good informed choices.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi on a

supplementary.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If he wants someone to read 600 pages of information to be able to figure out

that, he has a different attitude than I do.

Why is this government, instead of studying our public system - which is

working, and has been shown here for students because of recent changes - why

aren't they studying what is happening in the private system and trying to

find ways for the students who are now forced into the private system to have

access to the public system or to have alternative public sources of education

that would meet their needs? Why aren't they doing that instead of studying

the public system which is recognized across the country and throughout the

world as working well for the students of this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, again, in response to the question from the

member opposite, I have to say to the member that this government is committed

to a process which is going to make sure that the public post-secondary

education system is moving forward in a direction which is necessary to cater to

the needs of the particular students who are attending that particular

post-secondary programming.

I say to the member, that this government is not afraid of change. There are

changes that are necessary, just given the conditions within this Province,

within this nation. I would say that it is an open process. It is one that we

have gone out and asked the stakeholders what they need changed, what they need

to remain the same. I say to the member, it is a process that is unfolding and I

would ask that you bear with us as we go through that particular process.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Justice concerning the circuit court in

Labrador as it pertains to Labrador West. I want to say to the minister,

according to reports from the circuit court in Labrador West, the earliest court

date for a trial that will require more than half a day hearing, as of the

middle of November, will not be able to be scheduled until next June. I ask the

minister if he thinks that is appropriate and what his plans are to do something

about it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the hon. member for his question and I appreciate his concern about

the administration of justice in his district.

The facts that the hon. member stated are correct but they are correct for

all courts. All provincial courts in the Province are booked six to eight months

down the line for trials that will take more than half a day, such as trials

that will take two or three days. Trials that are less than a half day, bookings

can be obtained as soon as March and April. This is the same for all courts in

the Province, Mr. Speaker, and, I am assured -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. T. MARSHALL: - by the chief judge that these time lines are within

the Askov parameters for timely trials.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: My question is for the Minister of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs.

Yesterday, in answer to a question in this House concerning the shocking news

that E-coli is in the drinking water in Lawn, which is on the Burin Peninsula,

the minister said, and I quote: I have already told you we are going to give you

$328,000 to correct the problem. This morning on the Open Line show, the

minister reneged on that commitment.

I ask the minister: Do you not consider the presence of E-coli in a community's

water system serious enough to put the health of the residents of Lawn ahead of

your policy, that if the town cannot pay its share, the government will not

help?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we take this situation very seriously with the E-coli in the

water supply in the Town of Lawn. Yesterday we had a water and waste water

specialist visit the Town of Lawn to see if there is any short-term solution. He

is back now in his office. We are expecting a report within the next twenty-four

to forty-eight hours. He is consulting with the town engineer there. In the

short term, it looks like to solve the problem it could cost as much as $40,000.

We are prepared to go there to do that in the short term. In the long term, it

is going to cost $328,000 to put in a new chlorination system.

Yesterday, in this House of Assembly, I committed to 70 per cent of $328,000.

I did that on three occasions. The print media got it right. The television

media got it right. The radio media got it right but the member on the opposite

side of the House of Assembly, obviously, is trying to play politics with this.

I did say that we would commit $328,000, after committing three times 70 per

cent of the $328,000. She is playing games with this. She knew full well what

was meant by that statement. I explained to her after Question Period yesterday

what the situation was, but she decided to go out and play politics and try to

put pressure on to get 100 per cent.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I sincerely believed the minister when he said it,

because I thought, after three times, that he thought it was so serious an issue

that he would, in fact, cover it 100 per cent. That is what I believed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the individuals involved in the Walkerton tragedy

pleaded guilty yesterday and were sentenced. I read with disbelief the minister's

comments in The Telegram today. He said: Canadian standards don't allow

for the presence of any E. coli, but people shouldn't get sick if they boil

their water properly."

Mr. Speaker, this is an incredulous statement. Did we not learn anything from

the Walkerton experience? Minister, saying people should not get sick if they

boil the water properly does not absolve this government of the responsibility

of ensuring the people of this Province have safe drinking water.

Minister, will you live up to your promise and give the Town of Lawn the 100

per cent funding it needs to correct the E. coli problem, instead of breaking

another promise?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member can quote from Hansard, I am sure I can. On

three occasions yesterday, I said: $328,000 to correct the problem there in

Lawn. We have offered to pay upwards of 70 per cent of $328,000. The second

occasion: We are prepared to put 70 per cent of $328,000. The third occasion -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I said on three occasions in this House of

Assembly, 70 per cent of $328,000.

As a matter of fact, we had discussions with the Mayor of the Town of Lawn as

recently as this morning. The Mayor of Lawn realizes and accepts and understands

that the town has to take some responsibility for the water supply within the

Town of Lawn. We are going to meet in the very near future to work out the

negotiations to come up with some kind of a figure for the Town of Lawn to put

into the long-term solution of $328,000.

Mr. Speaker, the Mayor of Lawn realizes this. The media picked up on it and

understood what was said in this House of Assembly yesterday. I wonder why she

does not understand, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.

MS FOOTE: Let me read to the member the fourth quote, "I have

already told you we are going to give you $328,000 to correct the problem, so,

therefore, Mr. Speaker, it is being addressed as we speak."

I sincerely believe that you had a sober second thought recognizing the

serious of this situation. We are talking E. Coli in the drinking water in Lawn.

Minister, it was almost a year ago when you met with the Town of Lawn to

discuss their financial situation, and all of a sudden you were talking to the

mayor this morning. They knew they had to replace their water treatment

facility, because without it there was no chlorine in the town's drinking

water and they could not afford to do it without help from the government. That

was in January you met with them.

Minister, as of today, the Town of Lawn is still waiting for you to co-sign a

loan so they can borrow their share of the money needed to address the problem

with their water supply. Minister, if you will not live up to your promise of

100 per cent - and we all know in this House what 100 per cent means - won't

you please co-sign a loan for the town so they can move quickly (inaudible)?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I do not understand why the hon. member will not listen, or

refuses to listen. I did not make a promise of $328,000. I made three

commitments yesterday in this House of Assembly of 70 per cent of $328,000. I

made another commitment today in this House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker, to put

upwards of $40,000 into solving the problem in the immediate future so the

people can drink the water in Lawn, Mr. Speaker.

Not only that; I have had discussions, my department has had discussions,

with the Mayor of Lawn, who understands, Mr. Speaker, that it is going to take

some time to work out some agreement for the long-term solution for the

chlorination system in the Town of Lawn. He understands it.

I have to ask this question back to the hon. member, Mr. Speaker. We are

committed to it. I wonder why the hon. member refuses, or will not work with the

Town of Lawn, with the government of the day, to come to some solution on this?

I wonder why she wants to be an alarmist, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

I believe there is time for one question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the Environmental Health offices in the Department of Government

Services are responsible for taking water samples in this Province. We know that

some of these positions are currently vacant here in this Province. Is this an

area like Walkerton, where government felt it was okay to cut corners during the

budget?

Minister, do you plan to invest in more of these offices to provide more

comprehensive testing in the Province to avert a tragedy?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, we are very concerned about the water in this

Province, but the policy is that we do not sample untreated water. As the hon.

member knows, across from me, the sampling can change from hour to hour, day to

day, so it would be giving the public a false sense of security by saying that

we would sample untreated water.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS WHALEN: I would say to the hon. member that we are indeed very

concerned about the water quality in this Province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees

MR. SPEAKER: In accordance with

Section 43 of the Citizens'

Representative Act,

Chapter C-14.1, I am pleased to table the Second Annual

Report of the Citizens' Representative Office to the House of Assembly.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask members on both sides of the House for their co-operation.

Thank you very much.

The Chair recognizes the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today, I want to table the Annual Report for the year ending December 31,

2003 of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador Pooled Pension Fund.

MR. SPEAKER: Tabling of further reports?

Notices of Motions.

Answers to Questions for Which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a petition on behalf of residents in my district, Mr.

Speaker, as it relates to government's decision to not plough the roads

between Red Bay and Lodge Bay this year.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very important issue for the people of my district,

and it is a very critical issue in terms of transportation in that region of the

Province. There has been well over $300 million invested in highway construction

in this part of our Province. When the roads were constructed in this region of

Labrador, it was done so with the intention that the roads would be left open,

there would be regular maintenance and that people would have the option to use

these roads on an annual basis, not just on a part-time basis.

Now, the people of my district would like to see the government make more of

an effort. It is not good enough to say that because of the amount of snow on

that road, or because of the cost of trying to clear the snow, we are refusing

to do it from January until May. They would like to see more on an effort. I

spoke with the Minister of Transportation and Works a few days ago, pleading

with him again to give this some more further consideration, and he assures me

that he will give it more further consideration within his department to see if

there is a way that they may be able to extend the period of keeping this road

open next year.

Mr. Speaker, I was flipping through the newspaper and I seen the ad that the

minister has taken out in most all, I think, of the Robinson Blackmore papers in

the Province, and it says: Snow means slow. Well, in my district, snow means

there is no go, because the minister is not clearing the road in that particular

area at all. So he might want to revise the wording in his ad a little bit, or

at the very minimum, decide to change his decision and to clear snow off this

road in this particular area.

Mr. Speaker, what it does is its cuts off the movement of transportation of

goods and people between the Labrador Straits region and the Coast of Labrador

region. In essence, it shuts out a number of communities from access to, one:

the major airport in the district, which happens to be in Quebec, but the major

airport in the region. It also cuts off transportation for a lot of the people

who need the goods and services in the other part of the district, and it does

so for a very extended period of time.

This road has always been a problem, I guess, since it was constructed and

open. There is always a period of the year when you cannot use that highway

because of the increased amounts of snow. People have accepted this to a degree,

knowing that when it is impossible and weather permits you from using it, well

then that is all you can do, but they had hoped that government would at least

put an effort into fixing the problem, correcting the problem for the long term,

whether it means rerouting a

section of that road, widening the road, or, at the

very least, putting in winter roads in that particular area. But, they have seen

no action at all (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

This being Wednesday, and it now being 3:00 p.m., the Chair, under Standing

Order 63, will move to the Private Member's Motion.

I do believe we have the Private Member's Motion put forward by the Member

for Gander.

The hon. the Member for Gander District on his Private Member's Motion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I not only stand in this House today as the

MHA for Gander, the home of the mighty Gander River, I might say, but also as a

man, a resident, a resident of Newfoundland and Labrador and an avid

fisherperson.

On Monday I tabled a private member's resolution, a resolution that I

passionately believe in. I will read it into the record. The record should read

that this is a federal responsibility, and is a responsibility that I think

should be taken seriously and a responsibility that I think that affects all

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians in regard to the economy and actually enjoying

the outside world.

I will read into the record right now the body of the resolution. It reads:

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly call on the Government

of Canada to live up to its responsibility and implement an effective inland

fisheries enforcement program which would include special investigations,

enforcement officers who are non-river based and a substantial increase in the

funding currently provided to DFO for enforcement.

Mr. Speaker, I moved to Gander from the East Coast about thirty years ago and

one of the first things that I was introduced to was fly fishing, a pass time

that I came to really love and spend a lot of my time at it. Over the years, I

have not only fished the Gander River but I have fished the Conne River on the

South Coast, I fished the Exploits in Central, I fished Ragged Harbour up in

Bonavista North, I fished the Hunt River and the Eagle on the Great Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, as I moved from pool to pool salmon fishing at given times, I

would come across evidence of poaching and evidence of nets, and would come back

to my home and report it, but then I would fly-fish again and see the same thing

again. This was all due to a lack of enforcement on the Gander rivers and a lack

of resources from the federal government to do so.

Mr. Speaker, we all referenced the closing of the Northern cod fishery in

1992, but I also would like to remind people that the Atlantic salmon commercial

fishery was closed prior to that. I think it was closed in various sectors at

various times, but I think that the whole commercial salmon fishery was closed

prior to 1992.

Before I moved into Gander - I was a young man - I also fished on the

Southern Shore, and we had salmon licences. That was a big part of our income,

and that was closed. It hurt a fair number of Newfoundland and Labradorians, but

also, Mr. Speaker, it affected the residents who fly-fished in this Province. It

is a fishery that generates a lot of dollars into the economy.

Mr. Speaker, over that period of time also, and since then, as a fly

fisherperson, I have seen the daily take go from - I think it was, back then,

and I go back to the early 1970s - I think we had a take of three salmon per

day, down to now what it is today on the Gander River. I think it varies over

the Province, but this is a valuable, valuable resource, and we cannot afford to

see it misused and abused. We have to do something about it.

Mr. Speaker, I will just give you a background in regards to the salmon

fishing and fly fishing in this Province. Mr. Speaker, there are 186 licenced

salmon rivers in this Province, Gander being one of them, and Gander being

probably the mightiest of them all, as I see it, because the Gander stretches

from Glenwood down to Gander Bay. Almost 69 per cent, I believe, of all the

Atlantic salmon caught in Canada are caught in this Province, Mr. Speaker.

Sixty-nine per cent is a large percentage, and that has to have a lot of

significance in regard to what it means to the economy of this Province.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I might say that the Province's salmon resources in

terms of the number of rivers and the population itself is greater than all of

New England's and all of the other Atlantic Provinces as well. That will just

give you the vast area that all of these rivers constitute over this geographic

land mass of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I think, if I can remember right, that the estimate on regard to

what it generates into the economy is $100 million per year. Also, the

recreational portion of that resource, I think it is 2,500 direct jobs and

indirect jobs in this Province, Mr. Speaker. That cannot be taken -

AN HON. MEMBER: Lightly.

MR. O'BRIEN: - lightly was what I was going to say. Thank you, hon.

member behind me. Anyway, it cannot be taken lightly, Mr. Speaker, because 2,500

jobs is a lot of jobs, and a lot of the jobs are in rural Newfoundland. We all

hear and we debate and we all shout at each other in regard to our rural

commitment. We have a commitment from this government to rural commitment, and

one of them is in the salmon fishing and fly fishing industry, because that is

exactly what it is, an industry.

Mr. Speaker, this resource has to be protected, and it is a federal

responsibility. Thank God, as a salmon fisher, not as an MHA but as a salmon

fisherperson, thank God that this Premier and this government showed the

leadership to step into a federal responsibility and protect -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: - this industry, Mr. Speaker. That was done, I think, in

the first weeks of the angling fishing season this year by the Premier because

there was no directive from the federal side in regard to DFO. I might say that,

when the Premier took that initiative, there were a number of people around the

Province, a number of the editorials printed in support of that, hailed it as a

great thing, because they recognized that it isn't a provincial

responsibility, it is a federal responsibility; but it showed leadership in

regard to protecting that resource regardless of what happens; but that cannot

continue.

We all hear about the $8 billion surpluses on the federal side. Yes, they

have priorities for that, and they have other responsibilities, but one of the

responsibilities that they have for this Province is the protection of that

resource which means a lot to a lot of people in rural Newfoundland.

Mr. Speaker, I quote - in supporting the provincial government's

establishment of inland fisheries environment program - Larry Felt, who is the

President of the Salmonid Council of Newfoundland and Labrador, in The Western

Star of July 14, 2004. He says, "In a sad way, I'm delighted. It's

sad that the province has to do these things, given its limited financial

responsibility. But the feds are simply not doing their job."

That is what they are not doing. They are not doing their job. They are

shirking their job, actually, and ignoring their job, because they have that

responsibility of protecting those inland waters. In turn, I hear from the

Indian Bay waters and the management people there who oversee the resource but

don't have a whole lot of dollars to put into protection of that area, that we

all have a problem in this Province now with overtrouting I look at this, Mr.

Speaker, and I know that it is Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who are abusing

and misusing this resource. I can't understand that, Mr. Speaker, because they

actually affect our whole way of life in enjoying the outdoors in this Province.

I can't understand why they do it. I guess, as I said on Open Line last night,

we have to protect ourselves from ourselves, from abusing this resource.

I would also like to quote from the editorial of the Telegram that

says, "So is Williams' initiative a good one? Yes. Yes, it is because

despite plenty of provincial pressure, the federal government has shown

absolutely no interest in protecting the salmon resource in this Province."

This has been happening for a long time, and I am quite sure there are other fly

fishers in this House, Mr. Speaker. I know there are a number of them. I know

the Minister of Municipal Affairs takes great pride in his salmon fishing. I

have a great, great concern about this, not only just from my district, because

it employs a fair number of people and there are a fair number of people in my

district who fly-fish every day. They get up every day and they go to the Gander

River or they actually drive down to Ragged Harbour at times, and this is the

Exploits, and they fish before they go to work. In the morning they go to work

at nine o'clock and when they get off at five o'clock or six o'clock or

whatever, they go out and have another couple of hours salmon fishing. That, in

turn, puts a lot of dollars into the economy of my District of Gander, because

they are buying things such as flies, salmon rods, lines and also things to eat

while they are on the river. Everybody takes a rest when they are on the river,

sits on a rock and has a meal, and that all generates dollars that normally

wouldn't be generated.

I would like to quote one more quote, Mr. Speaker, in regard to the support

that we generated, and the Premier generated, in regard to protecting this

resource, which again, I will say, was not his responsibility. I commend him for

doing that, especially when it affects my district so greatly. This is Joe

Walsh, a columnist with the Telegram , July 17, 2004, "The premier

should be commended for his better-late-than-never attempt to at least prevent

Atlantic salmon from suffering the same fate as the northern cod stocks. And,

Regan should be taken - that is the federal minister responsible - to task for

his cavalier attitude." Mr. Speaker, I might say to that, an attitude of

disregard, because that is exactly what it is. When you don't protect your

resource, any resource in this Nation, any resource in Canada, any resource in

this Province, it is an attitude of disregard. If you don't protect it, people

will misuse it, people will abuse it. We have to have those officers on the

river where they can get out there, be there and be seen. That will stem that

tide and people will not be so apt to get out there and put nets after hours, et

cetera, and abuse our resource.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier - I think it was in the 2004 angling season. I think

it was in the first part of July, the Province implemented a one-time only - and

I repeat that, one-time only, and I send that to the federal side - that it is a

one-time only, that we did not assume responsibility for this resource. This is

still a federal resource and this is a one-time thing. Hopefully, the federal

government will stand up and come to the table and acknowledge their

responsibility in this program.

We brought in and implemented that one-time Inland Fisheries Enforcement

Program within the Department of Natural Resources. This program consisted of a

team of twenty highly-trained conservation officers with a strong enforcement

background. These people went out there and they took their jobs very, very

seriously and they went out on the rivers. Some of them actually, as I

understand, had never really enforced salmon fishing previous to this time. They

got out there and we seen them. I seen them interviewed on CBC in regards to how

seriously they took this responsibility that this government, the Premier, had

put on their shoulders. They went out there and they had results, great results,

I might add, Mr. Speaker.

The main goal of that initiative by the Premier, and by this government, was

to implement an effective enforcement activity. In implementing that, not only

was it there just to catch to people, it was to deter people. Just having it

there and being out on that river, it deters people from doing these things.

They do not know when an enforcement officer is going to come up behind them or

come up through the trees or whatever. So, that level of anxiety is always there

and that deters the person and persons.

I might add, I have seen, and we all have seen in the news, that it actually

cracked a number of well-organized poaching operations in the Province. They

went out there and they went undercover, and undercover for a number of days

until they cracked that, and that will have a great affect on this resource and

in deterring others in the future, Mr. Speaker.

Let's put it all in perceptive, Mr. Speaker, with regards to the federal

responsibility. We are not talking about a great lot of dollars here. This

initiative cost this government some $360,000 in total to implement. It

actually, I think, resulted in 180 fisheries charges with 104 individuals being

charged. There were 232 salmon, along with twenty-six nets confiscated, and

eight boats, three cars, five trucks and two motorcycles. This had a great

affect. When you see these kinds of things advertised, put in the paper, in the

media wise and people are seeing this, who have an inclination of going out

there poaching and whatnot, for whatever reason that they might go out there,

well this will be a great deterrent when they see these things because people do

not take it lightly when they lose their ATVs, cars and whatnot. It is not worth

it. It is too bad we have to resort, I suppose, to this type of thing because

people do this. I do not understand it as a fly fisherman myself. I welcomed it

when they brought in the no-barb, the hook and release program because they

practice that all throughout the world, especially in Scotland and that area.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to clue up and let other people - I am sure there are

other fly fishing people in this House who would like to have a few words with

regard to this resolution. I welcome that, but I call again on the federal

government to live up to their responsibility. It is their responsibility, not a

provincial responsibility. I thank the Premier, I thank the government and I

thank the minister for this initiative this summer in the angling season on

behalf of the citizens of Gander and on behalf of the citizens of this Province.

I thank you very much and I welcome the thoughts of my other colleagues.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just want to spend a few minutes to speak on this private member's motion

today from the Member for Gander. I can see that he is singing the praises of

the Premier and the minister.

I guess there have to be questions asked. I guess one of the questions that I

asked - when the Atlantic Accord was in the issue the Member for Gander was out

saying how deplorable for anybody to break their word. I cannot see how the

Member for Gander got deplorable in there about the Premier for breaking all of

his commitments to the Province. Then he comes out with one initiative for the

salmon fishery and all of a sudden everything is great. I say to the member, if

he is looking for credibility, if he is going to say one thing on Open Line he

should at least continue on when he presents a private motion bill.

Mr. Speaker, the initiative that was taken, when you look at it as a singular

event, with the results that it had, you could say: yes, there were some great,

positive steps taken. But, Mr. Speaker, what we are doing here is we are taking

the responsibility of the federal government away from the federal government

and putting it on the Province. The member mentioned the cost that this incurred

to the Province this year. I am not sure if the Minister of Natural Resources

would table what it costs. Also, the Member for Gander mentioned a deterrent by

having the Conservation officers on the river, but if you read the press release

that was sent out, this was a fifteen month undercover operation. So the effect

itself was more undercover than being a deterrent having people on the river.

This is the kind of responsibility that we have to look at when we take those

steps.

The Member for Gander also mentioned that yes, these officers were not fully

trained for this type of activity, for salmon poaching. Are we putting those

conservation officers at risk? This is the kinds of things that we must ask

ourselves before we step in and take the full responsibility off the federal

government, who should be paying for the conservation officers and increase the

protection of our salmon rivers. There is no question about that, but the

question that we must ask: Are we putting the conservation officers at risk for

this short-term gain?

I heard the Premier say in this particular matter, that we will try to

embarrass the federal government into living up to its responsibility. Well, Mr.

Speaker, I think there are other ways we should do this instead of putting the

conservation officers at risk. As the Member for Gander said, there is

absolutely no doubt the need to protect our salmon rivers. I am not a great

salmon fisherman myself. I did fish the Humber River. I did fish down in

Labrador. I did fish the Northern Peninsula and I do know how much this fishing

is worth to the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a major tourism

attraction to Newfoundland and Labrador and it is a major tourism attraction for

people within Newfoundland and Labrador travelling around Newfoundland and

Labrador. It is a great activity for all people in Newfoundland and Labrador to

get out and it is a great activity for people who want to spend time in

Newfoundland and Labrador during the summer and we must conserve the salmon

stocks in our Province.

There are a number of questions that we must ask. I will revert to questions

today in the House of Assembly. If the salmon rivers are a federal

responsibility and we can jump in and put $360,000, $400,000 but yet the

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture is saying today we cannot get involved

with Harbour Breton with the quotas. So, when and where are we allowed to jump

into the federal responsibility? When and Where?

The other question I have to ask - and I am sure I will never get the answer

- is that these twenty conservation officers who were put in the summer were not

new people hired for this particular job. They were taken from other particular

services that we need; because, if we did not need them, we would not have them

in the first place. They are taken from other different duties in the Province

of Newfoundland and Labrador and put under this fourteen or fifteen month

undercover operation.

The question that I have to ask, because of this idea that you came up with,

how many other resources that we need - if the Premier was going to do such a

great, great initiative, we should have hired extra people, not take away people

who are going to protect our salmon, protect our moose population, or protect

our forestry, or environment, or other natural resources that we have in the

area. We should have hired extra people. If that was the cost that we are going

to incur, and the need is so great, we should have hired extra people, not take

them away from one area to put in another area.

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt, and I am sure everybody on this side and

everybody in this House agrees, that the federal government should step up to

the plate and they should definitely, definitely, put more money into the

protection of the our salmon rivers in the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador. It is a great resource that we must keep. It is great for the economy,

it is great for tourism, and it is great for all of the people who enjoy our

outdoors in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I, too, call upon the federal government to hold up to its responsibilities,

to stand up; this is your responsibility. I say to the Province of Newfoundland

and Labrador, although we may get some short-term gains out of what happened the

summer, we have to be careful not to step in there and do this on a regular

basis for the federal government, because pretty soon what will happen is that

it will become the responsibility of the Province, and people will depend on it,

and people will look forward to it, if we are not careful in holding the feet of

the federal government to the fire, and saying: We want the funds; we need the

funds. It is your federal responsibility. It is constitutionally your

responsibility to put proper protection on our rivers.

Mr. Speaker, there is another thing, as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, we

must do. We must somehow educate ourselves that if we ruin the rivers in this

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, we are ruining our own economy. It is our

own economy that is going to be hurting. It is the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador who will suffer in the long run.

The motion itself, as presented, we support that the federal government

uphold its responsibility. They should uphold their responsibility. Again, I am

not sure of what it cost the provincial government this summer. I am not sure if

the minister will table the cost.

AN HON. MEMBER: Three hundred and sixty thousand dollars.

MR. JOYCE: Three hundred and sixty thousand dollars? I have not seen it

tabled. If it is, it would be appreciated.

Mr. Speaker, thank you for the time today to pass on the words. I feel that

this is a resource that we must protect. It is a resource that the federal

government must step up to the plate and keep up to its federal responsibility,

constitutional responsibility I might add, Mr. Speaker, to protect the salmon

rivers of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to support my colleague, the Member for

Gander, on his private member's resolution, Mr. Speaker.

I want to say, when it comes to particularly the conservation of our wildlife

resources, I will not be the last person in this House to stand on their feet

and talk about this issue. I want to say, as we go through this and talk about

this particular issue, Mr. Speaker, that we have some 186 licensed salmon rivers

in Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, it is a $100 million industry to the

Province. It provides 2,500 direct and indirect jobs to Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians. It is something that we, as a government, and we as a Province,

must protect, Mr. Speaker.

My colleague across the way says that this is a federal responsibility and

that we are taking over the responsibility of the federal government. Everybody

on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, understands that; we know whose

responsibility it is. We know that the federal government has not lived up to

its responsibility as far as protecting our inland waters. Just through the

undercover operations this past summer, we know the degree of poaching that is

going on in this Province; but I want to talk about Labrador for second, Mr.

Speaker. I want to talk about what is happening in Labrador with our wildlife

and our fishery stocks.

I had the opportunity this past summer, Mr. Speaker, to travel to Southern

Labrador. During that visit, I spoke to many people down there. I talked to

fisheries guardians, particularly with the Metis Nation, who have funding to

supply guardians to check rivers and to ensure the protection of our inland

stocks, Mr. Speaker. While I was in Southern Labrador, I was told a story about

how a poaching operation in Eastern Labrador was taking part, and that the

wildlife officers there, and the protection people, could not get to the site

where the netting was taking place because they did not have the access to a

chopper. They knew it was there. It was identified by a helicopter pilot who had

flown over. The nets were in the water. The nets were fishing and taking fish

illegally. This has to stop.

We have some great salmon rivers in Labrador, particularly the Eagle River,

which is a world-class salmon river, along with other rivers, Flowers River,

Adlatok River. There are a number of rivers in Labrador that house salmon, but

we in Labrador are also getting pressure from the Province of Quebec. We have

Quebecers who have come into Labrador and taken fish, as well as caribou and

other wildlife resources. Just this past winter, we had Quebecers from the

Province of Quebec who came in and hunted the protected Red Wine caribou herd, a

herd that is unique to Labrador, a herd that used to be up to 800 to 1,000

animals, and now I think we are down to just eighty animals in the Red Wine

caribou herd in Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, this government has taken some leadership, and particularly I

want to commend the Premier for saying: Look, this is a resource in our

Province, in our homeland, and since the federal government is not living up to

its responsibility, we, as a Province, are going to take it back. We had to put

provincial resources into this summer in order to protect our rivers in this

Province. This is absolutely scandalous, unacceptable, that the federal

government would allow the poaching of salmon and other fish species in our

Province to continue on an ongoing basis and not put the proper resources to the

problem.

We are so very fortunate in this Province that we have some of the finest

guardians and wildlife officers, and I know many of them in Labrador, who work

long and hard beyond the call, beyond the call, Mr. Speaker, to try to ensure

the protection of our wildlife resources, particularly in Labrador where we have

a huge piece of property, some 295,000 square kilometres, to protect. Some of

the finest wildlife habitat left in Canada is in Labrador. Some of the best

wildlife resources reside in Labrador.

I take, for example, the George River caribou herd. I want to talk about the

George River caribou herd, a herd that migrates between the Province of Quebec

and the Province of Labrador. As we speak, Mr. Speaker, they are now moving into

a very beautiful part of my district in Churchill Falls. The people of Churchill

Falls right now are seeing numbers coming down. This happened for a number of

years now, Mr. Speaker; yet, we see poaching operations going on. We know that

caribou have been taken out of Labrador and sold on the black market, on the

Quebec Lower North Shore. We know of airplanes that have come in from the

Province of Quebec with freezers aboard them, filled them full of fish and

brought them back to wherever they were going, or sold on the black market.

Mr. Speaker, this has to stop, and I think as far as our government is

concerned we have taken the necessary steps this year to say that we are not

going to put up with the plundering of our fish stocks in this Province and that

we, as government, have taken the leadership role to do something about it, Mr.

Speaker.

I want to commend the Minister of Natural Resources and the Premier for

taking on this issue and to send a message loud and clear to those who want to

poach our fishing and hunting resources, our animals and our fish in this

Province, that we are not going to stand by and watch it go by idly.

Mr. Speaker, this past summer, during that operation - my colleague from

Gander alluded to it earlier - we saw some 232 salmon caught illegally:

twenty-six nets, eight boats, three cars, five trucks, two motorcycles and four

ATVs. That was what was confiscated, and that sort of tells you the magnitude of

the problem we are now facing in this Province.

We have seen our wildlife officers come back with reports that there is even

more of this type of thing going on out there, but we have to be able to call

upon the federal government here today - and I am sure every member in this

House will call upon the federal government - to put the resources into wildlife

and to live up to your responsibility to protect inland waters in the Province

of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker.

In Labrador, we have worked with the Aboriginal groups, particularly the

Labrador Metis Nation and the Labrador Inuit Association, and they, too, have

put guardians out into the field to patrol waters and to try to ensure that some

of the pouching that takes place is not going to take place in the future. We

must commend those groups, because this is responsible. The responsible thing to

do, Mr. Speaker, is to ensure that we protect this, because it is not only for

us today; it is for our children and our grandchildren that we must protect

those stocks, and we must protect the heritage and culture of the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, we are the custodians of our wildlife resources

in this Province today. We have looked through our past. I remember, as a small

boy growing up in Labrador, when my father used to tell me, when I lived in a

small community of Twin Falls, he would like to have a trout for supper, and I

could walk 300 feet down to the dock in the small Town of Twin Falls, cast out a

rod, and bring in a four pound speckled trout, Mr. Speaker. We cannot do that in

very many places in Labrador today.

We have to start talking not only about the protection of our resources, Mr.

Speaker; we have to start talking about the revitalization, restocking programs.

We do not do any restocking of our lakes and rivers in Labrador. I have not

heard of one project in Labrador where we have stocked lakes and rivers. For

anybody even in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, a town where I live, if we want to go

fishing, take our son or daughter fishing, we have to fly in. We have to take an

airplane and fly into the interior of Labrador on lakes, rivers and streams that

for many years we could go out and basically cast a fly or cast a lure. We

cannot do that any more.

I remember growing up as a young fellow in Churchill Falls and I remember

working in a place called Orma lake, and I will never forget it. There was a

campsite there. That was when they were building the mighty Churchill. I

remember going on a dike called the GR2, which is one of the longest dikes in

the Hydro project up in Churchill Falls, and go at the end of the dike and we

could look at the number of trucks parked on the dike and people fishing. All we

could see was the flick of water where they were taking - at the time Quebecers

called them Quebec (inaudible), but they were Labrador fish. They were speckles.

I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, we cannot do that on GR2 today. We cannot do that

in a lot of brooks and streams in Labrador, so we have to take a two-pronged

approach on this. We must talk about conservation, and we must ensure the

protection of our wildlife and fish stocks. We also must look at ways and means

to enhance some of the rivers and streams and to bring those populations back

up. I will certainly be supporting whatever initiatives we, inside this

government, want to put forward to protect the wildlife and the fish stocks in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I believe this government has taken some great leadership with

what we did this past summer. I think we showed the federal government what this

means to us and what this means to the people and to the future of Newfoundland

and Labrador, and that our government was prepared to put the money and the

resources.

A heartfelt thank you should go out today to the enforcement officers and to

the wildlife officers who were involved in these shenanigans that went on, the

pouching operations over the summer. We owe a lot of credit to them. Sometimes

these officers get involved with some very ticklish situations. I can tell you,

in talking to many to them - many of them I know personally - there have been

times in which their personal safety has been at risk. So we owe a lot to the

enforcement people here in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I want to

make sure that every chance we get to give them the support that they need, that

we, as a government, will do so.

Again, I just want to say I congratulate the Member for Gander, and my

colleague, for putting this private resolution to the floor of the House of

Assembly here this afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity for being able to

speak on it, Mr. Speaker.

Thanks very much.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to say a few words on the resolution that is submitted by the

Member for Gander, a resolution that I wholeheartedly support. I think it is

long overdue for the federal government to take their responsibility seriously

and have more enforcement on our rivers and lakes within this Province.

Mr. Speaker, there is obviously a need for enforcement. I do not think that

there is anyone in this House of Assembly or in the Province today who does not

know of poaching that has taken place and has destroyed stocks within their

immediate area. There is definitely a lack of funding, not only on the human

resource side for the number of people who are actually charged with the

responsibility of enforcement, but there is also another problem. I just heard

the Member for Lake Melville refer to the lack of access to a chopper to go into

where a poaching operation was taking place. I know of occasions in this

Province where the people who were charged with protecting our fisheries had to

bum rides. They had to ask for a ride with private individuals from one end of a

pond to another to get to where a river flows out. They did not have the

equipment themselves to use in order to do their job. They do not have the tools

that they need in order to do their job properly.

Mr. Speaker, there is another need for extra wardens in this Province. When

we look at the assaults that have taken place on enforcement officers in this

Province over the years. Enforcement officers who, at times, I would suggest,

probably risk their lives to some degree or at least put themselves in imminent

danger in trying to do their job, because let's face it, a person is not going

to take lightly if he gets caught poaching and stands to lose a new vehicle and

probably a boat and motor and other things that cost a lot of money to go with

it. They are not going to take too kindly, and sometimes people may do things

that they would not ordinarily do if they were faced with the prospect of losing

large amounts of money as a result of being caught poaching. I think that the

guardian system and the officers who are charged with providing the resource of

protecting our resources need to be supplemented. They need to be operating in

tandem with each other because let's face it, Mr. Speaker, these people are

not on your city streets, and I know that is bad enough, but these people at

many times find themselves in the middle of open country or in the middle of

remote areas of the Province. I would suspect that it is not a great feeling to

be by yourself with the prospect of facing two or three poachers when you are

probably alone in the wilderness or some remote area of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, poachers are indeed doing a lot of damage to this Province and

to our fishery. I will tell you, there are many times when cabin owners in close

proximity to these rivers, streams and lakes know that there is poaching going

on but they are, at times, afraid to report that poaching for fear of

retaliation, by way of having their cabins burned, having their boats demolished

and things of that nature. We need the enforcement officers on the ground, Mr.

Speaker. We need them out there. The numbers that we have today certainly do not

warrant the type of protection that our salmon rivers, our inland fisheries and

other things need.

Mr. Speaker, I will say to the government, do not even go near the prospect

of trying to privatize our rivers, lakes and salmon pools under the guise of

providing protection. That has been tried before in this Province. That flag was

raised once before and it was not long coming down. I say to the government,

that is not the answer and the people of this Province will not tolerate a

system that would privatize our rivers and our pools under the name of

conservation. That is something that is totally unacceptable to this Province,

and this government would do wise to stay clear of that.

Mr. Speaker, I know that through Labrador, for example - and the Member for

Lake Melville talked about the fishery in Labrador and the hunting. I say to the

member that the hunting and wildlife comes under the Province's jurisdiction,

so they have total control over that. In Labrador, Mr. Speaker, I would suspect

that the number of officers who are charged with enforcement of inland rivers,

streams and lakes probably have a total area of 5,000 square kilometres per

warden. It is not possible for the number of fishery officers and wardens in

Labrador to do the job that should be done.

When the highway came through from Quebec into Labrador West we were faced,

for a few years, with some very serious problems. We had people entering the

Province, they did not have any guides, they drove in in their trucks, they had

their boats and motors, they had their deep freezers in the back of their trucks

and they had their generators. When they left, Mr. Speaker, their deep freezers

were frozen. That was happening repeatedly and nothing was ever done about it

because the number of officers who were in the area, it was impossible for them

to be able to keep on top of that and see that justice was carried out. It was a

serious problem, Mr. Speaker. What anybody would do with that number of fish,

besides sell them, is beyond me. I suspect that there was, in a way, a limited

commercial fishery taking place there.

It is, Mr. Speaker, a very serious issue, one that needs more resources, one

that deserves protection for the future, because even though this resource is

worth a lot of money in terms of dollars from tourists, it also plays a very

important

part in the lives of our residents. Many of us have grown up fishing

and many of us love to go away for a weekend and catch a few fish to eat while

we are camping. I can say, with no uncertainty, that the Member for Lake

Melville is quite correct in saying that places in Labrador where a few short

years ago we could catch fish abundantly, today we no longer can do that. It is

to the point, Mr. Speaker, where you have to go a long distance, or even, as the

member said, take a plane and fly in somewhere, to be guaranteed that you will

catch a fish or to get anything of any size, if you want to take your children

on a really good fishing trip.

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of areas for concern, and I will say to the

people in other parts of Labrador, particularly when the road goes through from

Goose Bay to Cartwright, and for the new road that is there now from Cartwright

down to Red Bay, that they should be very vigilant in protecting their waters,

because the same thing that happened in Labrador West quite possibly can happen

in their area. They should be on the alert for that and make sure that

activities of this nature are reported as soon as they are found out to be

taking place.

Mr. Speaker, I think there is also a need for a new five-year or a multi-year

plan for fisheries, when it comes to stocking our rivers, when it comes to

stocking our lakes, with new resources of fish. That plan, Mr. Speaker, a

five-year plan of that nature, is being worked on, I understand. It has not been

released yet to my knowledge. It is something that is desperately needed,

because without a plan to make sure that our fish stocks are preserved, Mr.

Speaker, they may very well be extinguished long before we know it.

Again, Mr. Speaker, I completely support the resolution that is put forward

by the Member for Gander, and I acknowledge a lot of the problems that he speaks

to in his resolution are taking place in our Province today and it is time that

the federal government took their responsibilities seriously and gave the people

of this Province and the resource the protection that they are required to.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Thank you. Thank you very much.

MR. TAYLOR: The great salmon fisherman.

MR. FRENCH: First of all, Mr. Speaker, yes, as my colleague says down

there, the great salmon fisherman had to get up. I have been salmon fishing now,

I guess, for a couple of years and in the last two years I have had the

opportunity to go to Eagle River in Labrador and I certainly enjoyed it. I

guess, while I was there at Eagle River, I got to meet a lot of people down

there, Mr. Speaker. I say to the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, it was his

good friend, actually, who showed me a couple of good pools down there, and we

had a great conversation down there. I realize the importance of it, not only to

local residents, but also to non-residents.

I had the opportunity one day, while down there, to talk to a group of young

people working on a lodge down there. It was really good to see the employment

levels from Cartwright and surrounding areas that evolve around the salmon

fishery. The non-residents will tell you down there - there was a Spanish crew

shooting a film there actually at the time - the non-residents will certainly

tell you that it is as good salmon fishing as anywhere in the world.

It is certainly a resource that we should be protecting wholeheartedly, not

only from an employment standpoint but from a tourism standpoint as well. I

guess down there, on any given day, you will notice dozens of non-residents

fishing on the river, and they pay good money to do so. It is very incumbent

upon the federal government to look after this resource.

This motion is not very complicated. Basically, it calls on the Government of

Canada, who has the responsibility to enforce inland waters, to do just that and

to protect, Mr. Speaker, the dwindling the Atlantic salmon resource. Certainly,

the responsibility of enforcement and conservation rests solely with them.

Mr. Speaker, this past summer the success of the Province's Fisheries

Enforcement Program tells the tale that more enforcement resources are

desperately needed.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members in this House - and so far it seems that we

have unanimous support across parties - to call on this House of Assembly, to

an effective inland fisheries program.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot talk about the inland fisheries program this summer

without throwing congratulations certain ways, and a number of these people I

have spoken to personally throughout the year. I think the chief of

investigations is to be congratulated, the regional compliance managers, and, in

particular, the twenty conservation officers, who made many, many personal

sacrifices with family. Many of these people have young children and so on.

A good friend of mine actually is a conservation office, who worked on this

program this summer. I just recently had a conversation with him when I ran into

him. He was telling me, he would be coming in, in the morning, at seven or

seven-thirty after being out on the river all night long, would pass his wife in

the door with his children, and he would sleep until twelve or one o'clock and

then go back to work again. The personal sacrifices that this guys make to

preserve our resources is phenomenal. The thing that strikes me most about it

is, the majority of the ones I have spoken to, every single one of them, are

willing to come back and do this again next year, if it means saving the

resource.

Mr. Speaker, this program, this year, started reasonably late, actually. It

was a little bit late getting off the ground. I think it lasted about twelve

weeks, but they would have liked to have it started probably about five weeks

before it did. In all of that, Mr. Speaker, they immediately went out and

started intelligence gathering and began work quickly. I guess their main

concern, of course, were the most serious offenders, the big groups, the large

numbers, the people making the big hauls illegally. This is effective basically

because of the professionalism that these conservation officers carried with

them.

Mr. Speaker, another interesting point to know about these conservation

officers - we certainly do not give them the credit they deserve. Many of these

did not receive any additional remuneration for what they did. There were

thousands and thousands of hours of overtime worked and, Mr. Speaker, many of

these- of course, this is nothing new for conservation officers; delayed

vacations. If you talked to many of these conservation officers who are involved

in a great deal of work that they do, you will find that many of them have a lot

of vacation days on the books simply because they never get the time to take

them. I guess a major factor in their success this year was the team approach.

They are certainly evident. If you talk to anybody involved, wherever they

needed resources they could move men rather quickly and do that.

Also, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Natural Resources became very involved and

the Premier, himself, became very, very involved in this process. I can speak to

that because I have had numerous conversations with the Premier about this

issue. This is a very, very important issue for the Premier of this Province. He

sees it as another natural resource being depleted and he is certainly not going

to let that happen. I guess nothing was more evident than on July 13 th

of this year when he sent out a press release just to that very fact, basically

calling on the federal government who were not carrying out their duties and

announcing the Fisheries Enforcement Program that we saw this past year with

these twenty officers.

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to note that there are 186 licensed salmon

rivers in Newfoundland and Labrador and 69 per cent of the salmon caught in

Canada is caught in Newfoundland and Labrador, the Atlantic Salmon. That is

certainly something that we should take note of. I guess the scary part of these

numbers is that right now apparently the stocks are only 30 per cent of what

they were in the 1980s. That is good enough reason, certainly, to become

involved in this issue.

Mr. Speaker, one has to only look to The Telegram , a writer by the

name of Joe Walsh who has written many, many articles about fishing and hunting

and so on in The Telegram. He says, "The Premier should be commended

for his better-late-than-never attempt to at least prevent Atlantic Salmon from

suffering the same faith as the northern cod stocks." He goes on to say

that, Ottawa is investing more than $3 million in salmon conservation in the

Province this year, including almost $2.5 million for inland enforcement.

However, what he points out, and this is very key here, Mr. Speaker, what he did

not say is that the enforcement officers - he was referring to Mr. Regan here

when he was talking about this - have been stretched very thin and, in the case

of seasonal officers, many of them have their hours reduced. Here is the

National Department of Fisheries who are reducing the resources, and, obviously,

the stocks are feeling the pinch, Mr. Speaker.

Before I go on any further, I should point out that we cannot blame it on the

staff at DFO. These guys worked countless hours as did our provincial people

this year. The men and women, they worked many, many hours. The river guardians,

who worked many, many hours, are trying their best, Mr. Speaker. I honestly do

not believe that the federal government is taking this seriously enough to

provide the resources that they need.

Mr. Speaker, just to highlight a few more articles. Another

article in The

Western Star on Wednesday, July 14: The feds abdicating salmon

responsibility, says Premier. If the federal government is abdicating a

responsibility they have - and when I say abdicating, I mean they are doing some

of it but they are not doing enough and, certainly, we have to pick up the ball.

He goes on to say, there is another resources in this Province that they are

going to mismanage and destroy, and we are not going to let it happen, Mr.

Speaker. I am certainly proud of the way that our government has reacted to this

initiative.

I guess nobody put it better and described it better than Bill Taylor, the

President of the Atlantic Salmon Federation out of Moncton, New Brunswick.

Although we did this provincially, it was certainly recognized throughout

Atlantic Canada. The article's title: The Premier's actions may encourage

federal funding. He goes on to talk about writing a letter to the Premier

congratulating him on his stand and he says this, that: The federal leadership

and one-time funding of $50 million would stimulate partnership with the

provinces and communities to restore its extraordinary species that has graced

our rivers for thousands of years although its numbers have decreased over time.

Mr. Speaker, it is not only in Newfoundland that we are calling for this, but

they are calling for it, certainly, all over Atlantic Canada.

We have another one here: Salmon Association praises Premier's actions.

Province deserves credit for plan to assist salmon protection. DFO has to do

more to conserve Atlantic salmon; the Atlantic Salmon Federation again. More DFO

enforcement needed on inland waters. Mr. Speaker, these are the type of headings

that showed up and are, certainly, recognized by everyone in this Province now

as being an integral part of saving our resource.

Mr. Speaker, currently the work continues with DFO and our conservation

officers. There is currently a Memorandum of Understanding in place where they

have both agreed to continue to work together diligently to conserve that stock.

That Memorandum of Understanding is with, like I said, Natural Resources, and we

have to give the minister credit here too. He has done his share in keeping his

finger on the pulse of his department and keeping it alive and well.

Mr. Speaker, both parties have agreed to continue to meet and to certainly

make this a success. I guess the problem occurs in this because right now the

poachers simply have no fear any more. At one time there was some fear, but now,

because of the lack of staffing from DFO, poachers simply have no fear at all.

Basically, it has come out of our operation this past year that they have been

selling dozens at a time, dozens of salmon. They have been going to businesses

claiming they are farmed salmon. Of course, most people do not realize the fact

and purchase them. These are not small organizations any more. These are huge

organizations with - I think one arrest netted nine people at one time, another

group was thirteen, with numerous vehicles, boats, motors and so on involved.

Basically, it has been mass netting. Anybody who wanted to go out and put a net

out had very little fear of ever being caught.

I guess we have to realize that this is our resource, and this year, because

of public awareness, I believe that a lot of the general public out there have

taken it upon themselves to keep an eye on our resource as they would anything

other. I guess the communities have begun to work together, and they recognize

that this is a significant resource. The days of not protecting this, Mr.

Speaker, are over. Those days are gone, and certainly this is going to keep

going. We will see from that.

The information, Mr. Speaker, that the Salmonid Council of Newfoundland and

Labrador recently put out, or put out some time ago, said that the estimated

value of the recreational fishery in this Province is somewhere between $60

million and $100 million.

There was a study done numerous years ago - I guess it was back in the early

1990s; I believe it was 1991 - by a group (inaudible) and they said at that time

there were approximately 15,000 salmon fishermen in Newfoundland and Labrador;

that is residents in this Province who take

part in the salmon fishing industry,

the recreation industry, and there were 1,500 non-residents who took time. At

that time - and, like I said, that was back in the early 1990s - there was $18

million in direct dollars, $25 million indirect dollars, and 2,340 full-time and

part-time jobs affected by this industry. You convert that into current numbers

- and I have seen some estimates by the Salmonid Council of Newfoundland and

Labrador, and some numbers from the Atlantic Salmon Federation - and they will

tell you that 3,400 seasonal jobs currently exist in that, and somewhere between

$80 million and $100 million.

Mr. Speaker, when we are talking about a resource worth $80 million or $100

million to the people of this Province, the $360,000 - I can assure the member

opposite, that is reality - that is an approximate of what this program cost us

this summer.

Mr. Speaker, to point out the success of our program and to show the federal

government that the need is certainly there, this year there were charges laid

by our conservation officers, of forty-six illegal sale of salmon, forty-six

illegal possession of untagged salmon, and twenty-four charges of illegal

netting. Large groups were the responsibility of this, and many of them were

caught. There were 180 fisheries related violations, 105 other resource

violations, and DFO charged 182 people at that very same time.

Mr. Speaker, this is successful for several reasons, I guess. Three comes to

mind. I will close up very shortly, but three very, very important reasons come

to mind as why this was such a success this year. Number one, we had the

conservation officers who are a very, very experienced crew. They knew what they

were doing, and had the ability to do it. Two, we had the support of the

Premier, first and foremost, who took this initiative on himself and directed

it; the Minister of Natural Resources, who was very informed on this issue and

played it right through to the bitter end; the CEO, and certainly the public. I

guess it is the public who we should congratulate for their help in this issue

the summer. Most importantly, I have to say, it was the conservation officers

who took the time to make a difference. Like I went into earlier, these were

gentlemen who postponed holidays - a very experienced group of individuals. I

certainly take my hat off to them. The sacrifices that these guys make, we

certainly don't appreciate what they do, and what they do is a very

significant thing.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to just go on to say that is a little bit of

discussion on the program that we established this summer, the successes it has

had. Sure there are wrinkles, as there are in every system in its initial

stages, but I certainly hope that the federal government now takes the bull by

the horn. I think they should be embarrassed by the fact that there is this much

happening with the salmon stocks in this Province and they are not playing the

game.

Like I said, I certainly do not hold the people who work at DFO responsible,

but certainly they deserve the resource managers and the finances to protect

this resource. The people of this Province are sick and tired of our natural

resources being depleted and given away. Basically, we are not going to stand

for it any more.

I want to congratulate our government, as a whole, for taking this

initiative, and certainly encourage the federal government to get on track and

get their act together on this resource.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take this opportunity to respond to the Member for Gander who

has moved a private motion on the conservation of salmon in our Province, and

the federal government's responsibility to live up to their commitment to

enforce the conservation of salmon in Newfoundland and Labrador.

This is a topic that I am very passionate about. I represent the District of

Grand Falls-Buchans, and, of course, it is my privilege to look upon the

Exploits River, and many people do, as being one of the best salmon rivers in

North America. It is the second largest producer of salmon in Atlantic Canada,

next to the Miramichi. It is vast in size. The Exploits River takes up some

12,000 kilometres, right from the Bond Bridge right up to the King George V Lake

off the Burgeo Road.

We have been fortunate in Central Newfoundland in developing a tourism

industry around salmon. If you drive in both the east and the west of Grand

Falls-Windsor you will see a salmon on our sign welcoming visitors to Grand

Falls-Windsor, the home of the Exploits Valley Salmon Festival. It has been a

success in Grand Falls-Windsor for twenty years.

I want to talk about how our natural resource, our salmon, is probably going

to go the way of our cod. A lot of it, most of it, is because of the federal

government reneging on its responsibilities. When the federal government decided

to contract out its enforcement on our rivers in our Province it was a huge

mistake and it should never have happened. What we are seeing now is the federal

government wanting to get the work that they should be doing done for the

cheapest price possible. When you turn that over to private enterprise and

private enterprise has to make a profit from that, what kind of people are you

going to put on the rivers who are going to look after our salmon and make sure

it is there? Naturally, they are going to try to pay the least amount of dollars

that they have to, and most of those individuals do not have any long-term

benefits. They also do not have the resources that they need to carry out a good

job of protecting our rivers. When this job was done by river guardians who were

employed by DFO, that was their permanent, seasonal job. Every summer that was

their job and they knew they had the benefits of working full time seasonally

with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

I remember when it was not unusual to have at least ten guardians on the

Exploits River at any one time. I am hearing recently that there are only two,

for most of the time, looking after enforcement on the Exploits River. Now, can

you imagine, two individuals who are not properly equipped by way of resources?

When DFO was carrying out these procedures they always had a fisheries officer

on hand who would supervise river guardians. They would be with them all the

time during violations, right to the courthouse steps and inside the courthouse.

Now we are depending on a couple of river guardians, who are employed by private

enterprise, to do the work and look after our valuable resource.

When you think about it, we have, in Central Newfoundland and all over this

Province - as many other speakers have just talked about - 186 licenced rivers

in our Province and the potential what that would create in the way of business

for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. This government has said that they have a

plan for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I have not seen it yet. Most people

have not. As of recently, all I have seen is a newspaper ad in the paper looking

for someone to develop an innovation strategy for rural Newfoundland and

Labrador. It is no further than looking after the salmon in our rivers, if that

was looked at as being very important and the proper resources attached to it.

I commend the provincial government for taking a step this summer to put our

wildlife officers on the river. That is a good first step but are they really

letting the federal government off the hook in doing this? It is the federal

government's responsibility and they are not living up to it.

The next step the Province might have to look at, are they going to enforce

the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks? That is the federal government's

responsibility. What are we going to do next that is going to be the taking on

of a federal responsibility? Of course, with that comes great cost. We cannot

afford that as a Province and we have to be reimbursed.

I already heard one speaker say that it cost $360,000 this summer to put

twenty conservation officers on the rivers so they could be multi-tasking,

forestry and on the rivers at the same time. What was neglected while they were

on the rivers? They did not hire additional people. They paid out a lot of money

in overtime and it was money, I guess, that this Province could ill-afford to

spend. The more we take on as a provincial government the less that the federal

government are going to live up to. At any rate, we are creating an awareness

that we are concerned about our inland waters. In doing so, we are providing

enforcement, something that the federal government has not done. It looks pretty

ridiculous when you see a federal surplus, like the one that is being talked

about all this fall by the federal government. Here, we, as a so-called have not

Province, are having to spend dollars that we cannot afford and putting them

into enforcement.

This summer, of course, the gem in the crown in Central Newfoundland is our

Salmonoid Centre; for any of you who have had the opportunity to visit our

fishway in Grand Falls-Windsor. It has been in operation roughly twenty years.

The person who deserves a lot of credit, of course, is Mr. Fred Parsons, who is

the general manager. He was working there when it was basically an idea. Now, it

has grown into quite a concern. Between that and Sanger Park they hire about

fifty individuals on a seasonal basis to look after the fishway and the park

itself.

Last year there were 30,000 salmon that went through the fishway in Grand

Falls-Windsor. That is quite a good return. The year before it was 28,000 fish

that went through. Can you imagine the potential on the rivers? Other speakers

have alluded to what is brought into this Province in the way of new tourism

dollars. For the most part, anyone who salmon fishes takes salmon fishing quite

serious. They have the best of gear. They spend money in recreation and whatever

it takes to make a good experience in salmon fishing. They spend money to that

effect. Look at the international potential. People from all over the world want

to come to Newfoundland and Labrador because of the resource we have here,

salmon. You know, we have to protect it and promote it. We are not getting the

returns from our natural resource, even salmon, as we should be getting because

as many people were saying, we have a lot of people in this Province who realize

that enforcement is not there as it should be and as a result, we see massive

amounts of poaching going on.

Now, anyone knows if you have 12,000 kilometres of river and you have two

river guardians on that river, they know full well that it is pretty easy to