Manitoba Hansard — 9 May 2023 (Sitting 51B, 42nd Legislature, 5th Session)

42-5-51b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVII No. 51B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, May 9, 2023 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon.

Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby, Hon. Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLEIN, Kevin E., Hon. Kirkfield Park PC LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice, Hon.

Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon. Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James, Hon. Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Morden-Winkler

2119 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, May 9, 2023 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 241–The Mandatory Training for Provincial Employees (Systemic Racism and Human Rights) Act Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): I move, seconded by the member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara), that Bill 241, The Mandatory Training for Prov incial Employees (Systemic Racism and Human Rights) Act, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr.

Moses: I am pleased to intro duce Bill 241, the mandatory training for provincial employees act. We know that many people in Manitoba live through the negative impacts of racism, racial discrimination in their everyday lives. I know that we need this bill here in Manitoba, and it grows more relevant each and every day as Manitoba becomes a more diverse place for many people to call home. People of all walks of life deserve to live with dignity and with respect, and so it's on all of us–including those in this very House –to do their best to live in a diverse province harmoniously.

And as elected officials, we need to lead by example, to ensure that we're taking the steps to rid ourselves and our communities of racism in all its forms. This bill would require regular antiracism training for provincial employees, and it is an overdue step in ending systemic racism in Manitoba, and I look forward to all members supporting this bill. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Fourth Report Mr.

Reg Helwer (Chairperson): I wish to present the fourth report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Social– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following as its Fourth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on May 8, 2023, at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 29) – The Life Leases Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les baux viagers • Bill (No. 38) – The Builders' Liens Amendment Act (Prompt Payment) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le privilège du constructeur (paiement rapide) Committee Membership • Mr. H ELWER • Hon. Mr. JOHNSTON (Assiniboia) • Mr. SANDHU • Mr. SCHULER • Hon. Mr. TEITSMA • Mr. WASYLIW Your Committee elected Mr. HELWER as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. SCHULER as the Vice - Chairperson. Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following 13 presentations on Bill (No. 38) – The Builders' Liens Amendment Act (Prompt Payment) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le privilège du constructeur (paiement rapide): Roy McPhail, Private citizen Chris Lorenc, Manitoba Heavy Construct ion Association Inc. Teri Urban, General Contractors Alliance of Canada- Manitoba

Chapter Steven Ness, Surety Association of Canada Gail Little, Manitoba Association of Architects Andrew Zimmermann, Intact Insurance

2120 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 Kasia Kieloch, Alternative Dispute Resolution Institute of Manitoba Michael Jack, City of Winnipeg Ron Hambley, Winnipeg Construction Association Shawn Wood, Construction Association of Rural Manitoba Ramona Coey, Manitoba Prompt Payment Coalition Terry Henry, Electrical Contractors Association o f Manitoba Julien Lafleche, Mechanical Contractors Association of Manitoba Inc. Written Submissions Your Committee received the following written submission on Bill (No. 38) – The Builders' Liens Amendment Act (Prompt Payment) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le privilège du constructeur (paiement rapide): Denys Volkov, Association of Manitoba Municipalities Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 29) – The Life Leases Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les baux viagers Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 38) – The Builders' Liens Amendment Act (Prompt Payment) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le privilège du constructeur (paiement rapide) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill with the following amendment: THAT the following be added after Clause 16 of the Bill: Review 16.1(1) Within two years after the coming into force of this section, the minister appointed by the Lieutenant Governor in Council to administer the amendments enacted by

section 13 of this Act must undertake a comprehensive review of this Act, which must include public representations. Tabling report in Assembly 16.1(2) Within one year after the review is undertaken or within any longer period that the Legislative Assembly allows, the minister referred to in subsection (1) must table a report on the review in the Assembly. Mr. Helwer: I move, seconded by the honour able member for Springfield -Ritchot (Mr. Schuler), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Fifth Report Mr.

Len Isleifson (Chairperson): I wish to present the fifth report on the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs. Clerk: Your Standing Com mittee on Legis lative Affairs– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs presents the following as its Fifth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on May 8, 2023, at 6:00 p.m. in Room 254 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 21) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act / Loi modifiant le Code de la route • Bill (No. 22) – The Emergency Measures Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les mesures d'urgence • Bill (No. 25) – The Workers Compensation Amendment Act (Wildfire Firefighters) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les accidents du travail (pompiers affectés aux incendies échappés) • Bill (No. 36) – The Fair Registration Practices in Regulated Professions Amendment Ac t / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les pratiques d'inscription équitables dans les professions réglementées Committee Membership • Mr. B USHIE • Mr. ISLEIFSON • MLA LINDSEY • Hon. Mr. PIWNIUK • Hon. Mr. REYES • Mr. WOWCHUK Your Committee elected Mr. ISLEIFSON as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. WOWCHUK as the Vice - Chairperson. Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record • Ms. LAMOUREUX

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2121 Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following presentation on Bill (No. 21) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act / Loi modifiant le Code de la route: David Grant, Private citizen Your Committee heard the following presentation on Bill (No. 22) – The Emergency Measures Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les mesures d'urgence: David Grant, Private citizen Your Committee heard the following three presentations on Bill (No. 25) – The Workers Compensation Amendment Act (Wildfire Firefighters) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les accidents du travail (pompiers affectés aux incendies échappés): Kevin Rebeck , Manitoba Federation of Labour Blaine Duncan, Manitoba Government and General Employees' Union (MGEU) David Grant, Private citizen Your Committee heard the following presentation on Bill (No. 36) – The Fair Registration Practices in Regulated Professions Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les pratiques d'inscription équitables dans les professions réglementées: David Grant, Snoman (Snowmobilers of Manitoba) Inc. Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 21) – The Highway Traffic Amendment Act / Loi modifiant le Code de la route Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 22) – The Emergency Measures Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les mesures d'urgence Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 25) – The Workers Compensation Amendment Act (Wildfire Firefighters) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les accidents du travail (pompiers affectés aux incendies échappé

s) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill withou t amendment. • Bill (No. 36) – The Fair Registration Practices in Regulated Professions Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les pratiques d'inscription équitables dans les professions réglementées Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Isleifson: I move, seconded by the honour able member from Swan River, that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): I'm pleased to table the revised Estimates order that is in place for today only.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honour able Minister of Municipal Relations –and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes' notice prior to routine proceed- ings was provided in accordance with rule 27(2). Would the honour able minister please proceed with his statement. Community Foundation Day Hon. Andrew Sm ith (Minister of Municipal Relations): I am honoured to rise before the House today to recognize community foundation day. This is the inaugural year that we celebrate community foundation day.

This proclamation also comes at an opport une moment, Madam Speaker, as The Winnipeg Foundation celebrated its 102nd anniver- sary of April 26 of this year. Unfortunately, the COVID -19 pandemic did not allow us to recognize April 26 as the community foundation day, and the–on The Winnipeg Foundation's 100th anniversary in 2021. The Winnipeg Foundation is Canada's first com - munity foundation, created by

an act of legislation on April 26, 1921, founded by a local busi ness person, William Forbes Alloway, and his wife, Elizabeth Alloway. There are now more than 200 community founda- tions across Canada. That includes 57 community foundations in Manitoba, which is the highest number per capita in the country. Madam Speaker, I'd also like to acknowledge the important work of The Winnipeg Foundation through the Endow Manitoba initiative. Endow Manitoba provides capacity building, support and advocacy on behalf of Manitoba's 57 community foundations. Our government is proud to support the community foundations to meet the needs of their

2122 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 communities. And since 2017, our government has been proud sponsor of the annual Endow Manitoba giving challenge. For every $5 gift made to the community foundation during this event, the Manitoba government contributes $1. The event raised a total of $1.68 million in 2022, based on 2,828 contributions to the community foundations across the province. Community foundations play a crucial role in our province and support a wide range of charitable organizations and projects that enrich the well -being and quality of life of all Manitobans.

Madam Speaker, I ask that all my colleagues here in the Legislature join me in celebrating our com mu- nity foundations that have joined us here today in the gallery. Madam Speaker: The honour able Minister of Municipal Relations (Mr. Smith). Mr. Smith: Yes, Madam Speaker, I'd like to ask leave to enter all the names of the folks in the gallery into Hansard.

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include the names of the members in the gallery into Hansard? [Agreed] Community Foundation Guests: Interlake Community Foundation: Murray Slagerman Pembina Manitou: Thor Thorleifson Selkirk & District Community Foundation: Shauna Curtain, Bev Klegg, Michele Polinuk, Bonny Wynnobel Westshore Community Foundation: Krista Narfson The Winnipeg Foundati on: Sky Bridges, Denise Campbell, Stacy Cardigan Smith, Rick Frost, Alan Goddard, Gerry Labossiere, LuAnn Lovlin, Kevin Parsons The Winnipeg Foundation, serving Morden Area Foundation, Plum Coulee Community Foundation, Morris Area Foundation, and The Steinbach Community Foundation: Lynda Lambert The Winnipeg Foundation, serving North Norfolk Foundation, Big Grass Community Foundation, Carman Area Foundation, Miami and Area Foundation: Caddie Crampton Ms.

Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): I am pleased to rise today to acknowledge community foundation day. Community foundations are an integral part of our communities. Community foundations are public charitable organizations that pool and permanently invest donations. The interest earned is granted to local charitable organizations each year. Since the capital is never spent, these gifts support our communities indefinitely. There are 57 community foundations in Manitoba, all doing important work to support local non- profit organizations with essential funding. Manitoba has a rich history of community foundations.

When The Winnipeg Foundation was founded in 1921, it was the first community foundation to be established in Canada. More than 100 years later, they are still making a positive impact in Winnipeg with many different grant programs for organizations large and small. Thanks in part to the early adoption of community foundations in Manitoba, today we have more com - munity foundations per capita than anywhere else in North America. To support all of these foundations, we also have Endow Manitoba, an initiative of The Winnipeg Foundation.

Endow Manitoba is a network of the province's community foundations with the goal of helping increase their impact and advancing the community foundation movement across the province. We know that Manitobans are generous people and our community foundations are evidence of this. Community foundations are an important piece of what makes Manitoba communities so vibrant. And it is all thanks to the incredible people behind the scenes who make community foundations successful. On behalf of the Manitoba NDP, I want to thank all the community foundations in Manitoba for the amazing work you do every day. Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I seek leave to respond to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: I rise today to speak to community foundation day, that was officially proclaimed on April 26th. The proclamation speaks to the important role that community foundations play, in our case, here in Manitoba, and they truly demonstrate just how generous Manitobans are. Foundations all over Canada support a wide array of organizations and projects that are meant to enrich

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2123 the lives of people and make our community an even better place. And because donations to these public charitable organizations remain in the com munities, they are growing strong and providing sustainability in so many ways. * (13:40) One of the very neat facts about these community foundations are how they serve the local community's unique interests. This makes me think of the grass - roots issues being discussed within our communities.

In addition to customizing every foundation, CFC, Canadian foundations of Canada, works with community foundations throughout the country on programming that targets social issues. These social issues include gender equality, social innovation, sustainable development and youth engage ment, just to name a few. Madam Speaker, Mani toba is home to 57 com - munity foundations. This includes Canada's first community foundation, which we all know of, The Winnipeg Foundation, now 102 years old.

In wrapping up, I just want to thank the minister for bringing forward today's ministerial statement and welcome all of our guests here in the gallery this afternoon, and just thank you for all the work that you're doing for our province here in Manitoba. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Further ministerial statements? The honourable Minister of He alth–and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes' notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with rule 27(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement. Cystic Fibrosis Awareness Month Hon.

Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I rise in the House today to recognize that our government has proclaimed May 2023 as the first Cystic Fibrosis Awareness Month in Manitoba. Cystic fibrosis, or CF, is an inherited disorder that causes severe damage to the lungs, di gestive system and other organs. It is fatal, a rare disease that affects approximately 130 Manitobans. In October of 2021, I was pleased to announce that our government added TRIKAFTA, a treatment for cystic fibrosis, to the provincial formulary avail - able through the Manitoba Pharmacare program.

Madam Speaker, in addition, in August 2022, our government expanded the coverage for patients aged six and older. TRIKAFTA is a triple-combination drug used not only for treating symptoms, but has given hope to tens of thousands of people with CF. One of the ways to raise awareness this May is at the annual Walk to Make Cystic Fibrosis History. On Sunday, May 28th, friends, families and colleagues will join Cystic Fibrosis Canada at the Woodhaven community club to celebrate, remember and support Manitobans living with cystic fibrosis. I encourage all Manitobans to participate in this year's walk.

Madam Speaker, today I would like to ac - knowledge Jackie Snarr, who has a grandson with cystic fibrosis, and Lee H uber, a CF dad, and Kim Steele from Cystic Fibrosis Canada, who are joining us today in the gallery. I want to acknowledge the valuable work and support that Jackie, Lee and Cystic Fibrosis Canada have done for those living with cystic fibrosis and their families. Madam Speaker, I ask all members in the Chamber to please join me in recognizing Cystic Fibrosis Canada, Jackie and Lee for all they do for those living with cystic fibrosis in Manitoba and across Canada.

MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Cystic fibrosis is a genetic condition that causes severe damage to the lungs, digestive system and other organs of the body. It can be devastating to Manitoba families and those living with CF. Thankfully, there are now treatments that drastically improv e the lives of those suffering – especially TRIKAFTA, which has been described as the single greatest innovation in cystic fibrosis history. After CF advocates and our Manitoba NDP urged the Province to do so, this PC government added the drug to the provincial formulary.

Since then, Manitobans living with CF have seen their conditions improve dramatically. However, Manitoba has the highest deductible in the country that people need to pay in order to access this drug. This is a serious accessibility issue and only serves to keep treatment from Manitobans who desperately need it. Manitoba is the only jurisdiction in Canada that does not have a CF drug program, since the life saving drug program here in Manitoba was eliminated in 2018 by the PC government. Manitoba, unfortunately,

2124 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 also has the highest number of hospitalizations and hospitalization days for cystic fibrosis in the country. This is why we must commit to doing everything within our power as legislators to support all Manitobans and their families who are living with CF. Today, advocates for cystic fibrosis continue to work for increased supports for those living with the condition. We applaud Cystic Fibrosis Canada and the Manitoba

chapter for all of their work and commend all of those who continue to raise money for research and those who continue to provide care, be it for family members, friends and com munity who are living with CF. Madam Speaker, this issue is urgent. Every day counts to not only significantly improve the quality of life, but to actually save Manitoban lives. And to all those who are living with cystic fibrosis, I want you to know that the Manitoba NDP will continue to stand with you.

We will continue to fight for you to have better access to treatments and resources and supports and human resources within your organizations. I can't acknowl edge the folks who are in the gallery, Madam Speaker. I really want to, but thank you to all those advocates across our province. We're with you. Thank you. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave to respond to the minis terial statement? [Agreed] Mr.

Gerrard: Madam Speaker, compared with other provinces, Manitoba has the highest number of hospitalizations per capita for cystic fibrosis, the highest number of hospitalization days per capita of all provinces and the highest number of clinic visits per capita. It is likely that these results are in part because the major drug for hel ping most people with cystic fibrosis, TRIKAFTA, is not fully funded in Manitoba, nor are many of the other drugs needed to help those with cystic fibrosis fully funded. And there is more.

Manitoba has the highest percentage of people with cystic fibrosi s-related diabetes and the highest number of adult cystic fibrosis patients post lung transplants. These are additional signs that we need to better support those with cystic fibrosis in Manitoba, so that fewer people need hospitalizations, treatment for d iabetes, as well as for their cystic fibrosis, and so that fewer people with cystic fibrosis need lung transplants. As a pediatrician, I have watched the amazing progress that has taken place over the years in the understanding and the treatment of cystic fibrosis.

The identification of the gene in Canada, in Toronto by Dr. Lap-Chee Tsui and his team, and now the use of what can be best described as designer drugs based on the specific mutation causing the cystic fibrosis. This has been incredible progress. We now need the government of Manitoba to step up and to come through with the additional funding support for those with cystic fibrosis. This funding is needed to match what is being done in other provinces in Canada. Thank you. Miigwech. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Phil, Marilyn, Jack and Julia Snarr Hon.

Jon Reyes (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Madam Speaker, as my colleagues in the House have mentioned, May is Cystic Fibrosis – CF–Awareness Month, and I am truly pleased and proud to welcome Wav erley constituents Phil and Marilyn Snarr, parents of daughter Julia and their son Jack. Back in the summer of 2021, I first met with Marilyn and Phil on a virtual call about CF and their son Jack bringing light on this issue concerning their son and those who are diagnosed with CF. Jack's parents have been champion advocates for those suffering with this disease by creating more awareness to the general public.

I was proud, as their MLA, to assist them in navigating through the path- ways on how to communicate their message. They educated me about the transformational drug called TRIKAFTA. I want to thank the member for Southdale (Ms. Gordon) for taking steps to add TRIKAFTA to the provincial formulary. This positive announcement was welcomed by many young individuals, including Jack, who is here with us today. Jack started treatment of TRIKAFTA in November of 2022.

At his check up on January 2023, the diagnostic tool for CF showed that Jack's sweat test improved significantly, meaning that the drug is having a profound impact and is slowing down the

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2125 progression of the disease, giving Jack a robust child- hood that his family was not sure he would have. As a result of TRIKAFTA, Jack has more energy for many activities like school, going camping and fishing with his family and, his favourite activity, playing hockey. * (13:50) Thanks to the tremendous advocacy efforts of Phil and Marilyn, alongside the CF community, those who have access to this drug are coming off the lung transplant list are–and are getting on with living.

TRIKAFTA is changing the trajectory of CF for kids like Jack; their future looks brighter than ever, as do their hopes and dreams. I know he loves to play sports and his parents are obviously proud of his accomplishments. So am I, Jack: you have a big fan in me and us all. Madam Speaker, I ask my colleagues to celebrate Phil and Marilyn with me for being resolute in their dedication towards promoting such a life -changing initiative that is now transforming lives in the cystic fibrosis community. And let's not forget Julia, for being a great big sister to Jack. Go, Jack, go. Strathcona School Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): Today, I'm honoured to recognize the incredible grade 6 class from Strathcona School, a school I attended in my constituency, and their teacher, Daniel Orlikow. These young people made a big impression on me when each one of them sent me a letter last winter expressing the work–expressing support for the work being done by myself and other s to advance reconciliation and MMIWG2S, as well as their con - cerns about these ongoing issues in our society.

These issues aren't easy to confront and it shows tremendous leadership that these students took the–took political action by contacting their representative. On a personal note, reading these letters gave me a tremendous boost at a time when I needed it, and I'm extremely grateful for that. This was during the aftermath of the murders of Rebecca Contois, Morgan Harris, Marcedes Myran, Buffalo Woman. Changes have to happen in our society to stop tragedies from–like this happening in our world.

We have to address colonialism and the legacies of genocide that are still taking place and taking family members from our communities at increasing rates. I know from experience that this work takes a lot out of you, which is why I'm so grateful to these students today for their advocacy. I'm eager to share with other leaders and advocates in the hopes that they, too, might get a boat–boost as well. While it brings me joy to acknowledge that these true–to acknowledge this true leadership from young people, I must acknowledge, as well, how unfair it is that they have to step up in this way.

They deserve to live in a world where young people don't ha ve to worry about the injustices, that it's our responsibility in this House to do whatever it takes to build that world for these young people. Please join me in thanking and uplifting these young, amazing grade 6 students and the powerful reminder that they've given us for our –in our sacred responsibility. Builders' Liens Amendment Act Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Madam Speaker, last night in the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development, a piece of legislation passed through committee to hopefully move to third reading.

I know this is something we've seen before and we will see it again, but this 'legistralation' was intro - duced four times with slightly different wording, two MLA/ministers and it's moved on. Bill 38, The Builders' Lie ns Amendment Act (Prompt Payment) is hopefully on its way to becoming law. It has taken several years to get to this stage with numerous individuals, associations, business and labour providing guidance and suggestions.

I hesitate to cal- culate the hours that have been spent on this legis - lation, but I know it is legislation that will work in Manitoba, as it has in other provinces and countries. Thank you to all those who have contributed to get us to this stage. The Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) and government of Manitoba have been clear in their support. The Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services (Mr. Teitsma) has been a cham- pion, listened closely and accepted changes and amendments. The Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr.

Kinew) and the opposition has seen fit to support the prompt payment legislation, and I encourage them to continue in their support. Thank you –and the House leaders have found a path for the bill. Madam Speaker, this legislation is enabling legis- lation for busines s and labour. It will allow con - struction projects to continue being built even when there are differences of opinion on payment. It will

2126 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 allow contractors, subcontractors, trades and labour to be paid in a timely manner. There is still third reading and much work is yet to be done, but I am confident that we will get through that process. My thanks to all who have contributed to this legislation. I believe it is a fine example of how the legislative process works.

Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Just before we move on to the next statement, I would like to indicate that we did have in the public gallery from Woodlawn School 48 grade 3-to-4 students under the direction of Simmy Ghandi, and these–this group is located in the constit- uency of the honour able member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen). So I just wanted to make sure we got that on record. I wasn't sure when they were going to leave. So we welcomed them here. Team Clam Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): I rise in the House today to recognize some incredibly talented students and educators from Sisler High School.

Team Clam, which includes Sisler CREATE students Xierra Cansino, Kimberly Chau, Sam Balanial, Gian Abad, Francesca Musni, took the top prize for best high school in the recent 24 HOURS Animation Contest for Students. Teams around the world were asked with creating a 30-second animation in 24 hours. Their entries were then judged by a panel of industry leaders. I had the pleasure of meeting Team Clam and the department head, Jamie Leduc, a few months ago, where I got to learn about their 24-hour whirlwind experience.

From planning, to drafting, to creating, the stu- dents had to get this all done within a 24- hour time frame. In those 24 hours, team members took turns napping and snacking while others worked. The prompt for the challenge was to visualize life 100 years into the future, and Team Clam made a humorous short animation titled Superfluous, which depicts a future where birds rule the earth and embody humankind's wasteful tendencies and desire to consume and keep consuming.

Xierra, Kimberly, Sam, Gian and Francesca exemplify excellence, and I am proud that such young leaders are representing Burrows and our province on the global stage. I also want to applaud the success of the CRE ATE program, led by Jamie Leduc, which gives students the opportunity to learn filmmaking, game design, animation and other digital media. Team Clam is already making their mark in the animation industry, with all five group members being selected for int ernships with notable industry giants, and I wish them all success.

Madam Speaker, I ask all members to join me in recognizing Team Clam, their families and educators who are here with us in the gallery. Thank you. Non-Disclosure Agreements Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I am sad to say it appears the–that our bill to reform NDAs is likely to die on the Order Paper in Manitoba this spring. We're waiting on a report of the law com mission–Law Reform Commission of Manitoba, and it will not be ready 'til June. This is more than unfor tunate, since legis lation has already been passed not just in Prince Edward Island but in many juris dictions around the world.

And every day that this legis lation is not passed, everyday people are being required to sign gag orders so that they can never again speak about their sexual assaults, assaults, harassment or mistreatment – especially at work– every single day. We know this because we're still hearing about people being required to sign gag orders in exchange for their severance.

Last November, we had a very powerful committee meeting at which people who had been mistreated and required to sign NDAs were able to speak, some for the first time in their lives: the teacher who was mistreated and whose health was put at risk at work, the union leader who was silenced through a one - sided non- disparagement clause, the police officer who reported that her colleagues were turning a blind eye to domestic assaults, an Indigenous health- care worker assaulted at work .

There were many more: journalists who worked at major news organizations, The Globe and Mail and Fox News; university pro - fessors who were shunned for pointing out that their employer was protecting a predator. * (14:00) There were also deeply personal stories: people who were victims of family violence and sexual abuse; a woman, abused by her father, whose estate is still keeping her silent after her death. They can't speak to family, to employers, to spirit- ual counsellors, and we know that, in many cases,

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2127 NDAs are being used to protect serial predators in the workplace, with each new victim unaware because everyone else they've hurt has been forced to sign a gag order. One reason our committee hearings were so powerful was we determined every presenter at com- mittee also shared parliamentary privilege, which means that, as they spoke, their NDAs had no force.

While it is unlikely to happen this spring in Manitoba, I am very glad that today, Senator Marilou McPhedran is introducing a federal NDA reform bill that will afford witnesses who wish to break their NDAs and speak their truth to talk about the harm and NDAs at committee in Ottawa. I hope it has the same powerful effect that our presenters did, and the federal government makes it the law of the land. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today Patti Tweed, who is a constit- uent for the member of Union Stati on, and Jean Hodgins, and both are cystic fibrosis advocates in Manitoba. And both are the guests of the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara). On behalf of all members here, we wish you welcome to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Management of Health-Care System Health Professionals' Recommendations Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Doctors are speaking out.

Respected physicians are providing examples of the, quote, profound dysfunc - tion that has been enginee red into our health- care system by this government. End quote. The PCs have created, quote, a series of silos, end quote, and no one can provide an organizational chart for who does what. That's the health- care system under Brian Pallister and the Stefanson government. It means worse care for patients and more frustra- tion and stress for those heroes who work on the front lines of our health-care system.

Quote, those who can't endure the sheer moral injury quietly resign, and those who protest get reassigned. End quote. Does the Premier agree with the diagnosis of Dr. Dan Roberts, acting head of neurology at the Health Sciences Centre? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): I, indeed, want to thank all doctors in Manitoba for the incred ible work they do to look after their patients each and every day, Madam Speaker. I do know that we are in the process of a recruit - ment program for doctors. In fact, Madam Speaker, just a couple of weeks ago, we had an RFP for 150 more doctors in rural and northern com munities.

We have already attracted 73 physicians, including 30 family doctors, a cardiac surgeon, a neurologist and a neurosurgeon. We recognize there's more work to do, Madam Speaker, and we'll continue to get that job done for Manitobans. Madam Speak er: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, we know that when doctors come forward from the Misericordia or surgeons come forward with recommendations to invest in our public health-care system to this Premier, they're ignored.

But, and I quote, if a private busi ness comes knocking at the door claiming a special elixir, it seems that the only process required is a wink and a nod. End quote. That's the state of health care under this Premier. Quote, agreements emerge in days and are eagerly signed without any scrutiny, trans parency or due process. End quote. There needs to be account ability from this gov - ernment for their failures. Can the Premier tell the House why she prioritizes private business over our public health-care system? Mrs.

Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, what's im - portant to, certainly, us on this side of the House, is that Manitobans get the surgeries that they need when they need them. And that's why we are making significant pro - gress through our Diagnos tic and Surgical Recovery Task Force, Madam Speaker. I want to thank Dr. Ed Buchel, as well as Dr. Peter MacDonald, for the in - credible work that they do and all the other doctors who are a part of that whole process.

Madam Speaker, we're making significant progress where we've eliminated the pre -COVID pandemic backlog, and we want to continue to move in that direction towards making sure that Manitobans get the health-care services they need when they need them.

2128 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: I just want to quickly point out, what the Premier said is not true. Manitobans are still waiting for hip and knee surgeries and they're waiting longer than they ever had before. But to remind the Premier, the question was spe- cifically about medical experts, who are speaking out about this gov ernment's failures. They're calling out the dysfunction of the PCs when it comes to their attempts to manage our health -care system.

They're also calling out the special treatment that private companies get when they approach the Cabinet of this PC government. And at the end of the day, they're demanding accountability for the real damage that the P Cs have caused, first under Brian Pallister and now under the Stefanson government, to the public health-care system that every Manitoban relies on. My question for the Premier is this: How many more medical health system experts are going to speak out and condemn her mis management of health care in Manitoba? Mrs.

Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, again, I want to thank all of the doctors for the incredible work that they do, and the nurses and all of those who work in our health- care system right acr oss this wonderful province of ours. We are making significant headway when it comes to our surgical and diagnostic backlogs, Madam Speaker. We have already eliminated the pandemic backlogs for cataract surgeries, for CT scans, for ultrasound tests, for cardiac catheterization, lab tasks for pace- maker surgeries–and the list goes on. There's several that we have eliminated.

We recognize that there's more work to do, and I just want to thank our diagnostic and surgical task force for the incredible work they're doing to ensure that we elim- inate those black–backlogs. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Education Property Tax Credit Out-of-Province Rebates Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Premier is underfunding education in Manitoba at the same time that she sends out big cheques to billionaires who don't even live in Manitoba.

On this side of the House, we say sending money to out -of-province billionaires w hile public schools are underfunded is wrong. On this side of the House, we say that those resources should be invested in our kids, invested in their future. That's why, once again, we're calling on this Premier to abandon her commitment of sending cheques to billionaires who don't live in Manitoba. Seems like an easy commitment to make. Will she do so today? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Madam Speaker, the companies that the Leader of the Op position is referring to actually own property in Manitoba.

They pay taxes in Manitoba. They create jobs in Manitoba and they are significant contributors to our economy. Now, I know the Leader of the Opposition doesn't care about jobs, doesn't care about economic growth opportunities for the province of Manitoba. We know what his hidden agenda is.

It's just to raise taxes in Manitoba. [interjection] We think that's wrong. [interjection] Madam Speaker: I know the members of the cystic fibrosis advocacy group would like to hear what is being asked and answered on the floor, and I know that they would like to hear better democracy in action and better civility towards each other. So I'm going to ask for everybody's co-operation, please. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Yes, Madam Speaker, let's talk about the companies.

The parent company that owns Superstore and No Frills in Manitoba yesterday raised its dividends. They did so because they made $426 million in just the first three month s of this year. They did that by charging Manitobans more money at the grocery store. At the same time, this Premier turned around and saw a–thought that this hugely profitable corporation needed even more money. She cut a cheque for $327,000 to this same company. I'll table the documents that prove the case.

The only thing that the Premier needs to respond to now is: Why does she want to send hundreds of thousands of dollars to a wildly profitable company while Manitoba schools are underfunded? * (14:10)

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2129 Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the company that the Leader of the Op position is referring to employs more than 3,000 Manitobans. And he's talking about putting them out of business in this province. Madam Speaker, millions of–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –dollars of tax revenue that we– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –get as a government from this very corporation that the Leader of the Opposition is talking about, and he's talking about shut ting them down in the province of Manitoba.

Well, Madam Speaker, we're all about economic development opportunities for Manitoba companies, and we will continue to support those companies in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, I invite the Premier to continue running on her what -about-the-billionaires platform. On this side of the House, we say that billionaires should pay their fair share. There is no risk that this company goes out of business. I will repeat that they just turned a profit of $426 million, and that's in the first three months of this year alone.

The only point that we're making is that a com - pany owned by Galen Weston, which is so wildly profitable, should not get an extra $325,000 from this PC government, especially not when that $325,000 is being taken from revenue that is supposed to fund public schools. You have a choice when you vote this year. You can send cheques to billionaires with the PCs, or you can establish a province -wide nutrition program in public schools with the Manitoba NDP– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: I have been standing for some time, and everybody's so busy heckling each other that they're not paying attention to me trying to carry out the rules of the House. So I'm going to ask for everybody's co-operation, please. Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition, I wonder what he say s to the more than 3,000 Manitobans that are employed by the very company that he's talking about. That's 3,000 Manitobans that are employed in this province–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Stefanson: –who pay taxes, Madam Speaker.

And the company that pays millions of dollars in taxes to our gov ernment, that of –that makes us be able to afford health care, edu cation that the Leader of the Opposition is talking about. That's how we're going to pay for the future, is by growing our economy, not by taxing Manitobans. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Order.

Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner Program Resignation of Out-of-Province Manager MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Madam Speaker, for over a year survivors and nurses have spoken out about the program –the problems, rather, with the Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner Program. Lack of staff has resulted in sexual assault sur- vivors being turned away from the SANE program, and that includes –devastatingly–children, Madam Speaker. We repeat edly called on the PCs to take action, and their response was to hire an out-of-province forensic manager to work remotely from Alberta.

That's not a solution that works for Manitobans. And now we've learned that this person has resigned, and so it's essentially back to square one. Will the minister stand up and admit it was a mistake to hire an out -of-province manager for the SANE program? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): Our government will always stand up for survivors of sexual assault. That is why it is our gov ernment–this Health Minister –who esta - blished the sexual assault nurse examination program with ongoing operation dollars. And it is why this government established a community-led program.

And we were very pleased a few weeks ago to announce with Klinic and with support from Ka Ni Kanichihk to have a mobile site in community, to have a community-led sexual assault nurse examination pro- gram, because our gov ernment always stands up for sexual assault survivors and our gov ernment always believes sexual assault survivors, something the NDP cannot say.

2130 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, respectf ully, it's unacceptable that the Health Minister won't stand up and answer this question when she is the one who has failed this program. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Asagwara: And the Minister for Families made an announcement that actually had zero steps or plans attached to it to make sure that survivors could imme- diately access the care they need in communities right now. In the meantime, the SANE program has fallen apart.

SANE nurses need support from this gov ern- ment, and survivors across Manitoba deserve support from this government. Now we've learned the Alberta hire has resigned. Will the minister simply stand in this House today and admit her approach has failed? Ms. Squires: So, I'd like to provide an update for the member that , on this side of the House , we work together, and that Manitoba Health and Status of Women and the Department of Families, we all worked very collaboratively together to provide services both in community and in hospital so that we could support survivors of sexual violence.

Unlike the members opposite, who failed to esta- blish an ongoing commitment to a sexual assault nurse examination program; unlike members opposite, who do not support survivors of sexual violence, nor do they believe them. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, the minister's claim that we don't stand with survivors on this side of the House is a disgusting attempt to distract from the reality that her Health Minister and her gov ernment have failed survivors and have failed nurses at the SANE program.

Their shameful incompetence is having devastating impacts–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Asagwara: –on survivors across Manitoba. Survivors, including children, are being sent away and told not to wipe themselves or to shower until they can come back and be seen when staff are available. At least 10 nurses have resigned from the SANE program, including the one the PCs hired to work remotely from Alberta. It's clear their approach has failed. Will the minister stand up, apologize to survivors and the nurses at the SANE program today? Ms.

Squires: Our government will always stand up for survivors of sexual violence, and our government will always stand up for children who are in need of protection, unlike members opposite. Let's review the facts. We –our gov ernment an - nounced money–invested money in the Toba Centre for children who are abused. What did members opposite do? They voted against it. Our government announced $650,000 last year for the sexual assault nurse examination program. What did members opposite do? They voted against it.

Now our government announced $1.2 million for a com munity-led sexual assault nurse examination program that has a survivors' circle that is advising the implementation of this program. Members opposite, what did they do? They vote against it. They don't stand for survivors and they don't believe survivors. Project Nova Budget CEO Compensation Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Madam Speaker, new revelations show that the issues at MPI and Project Nova go all the way to the top. * (14:20) While Project Nova costs were ballooning more than $200 million overbudget, the hand- picked MPI CEO received not one, but two raises. And he also racked up $88,000 in travel costs as he toured the country for the equivalent of seven and a half weeks away. This PC government and their hand-picked board, including Grant Stefanson, signed off on all of this. It's clear that the PCs have been in lockstep as their mismanagement has led to higher Autopac rates once again.

Can the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) explain, why does she support giving the MPI CEO massive raises while Project Nova is $200 million overbudget?

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2131 Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation): The member opposite will remember, because he sat in govern- ment at the time one of the last years that the NDP was in government, that they approved a 3 and a half per cent rate increase for MPI. That was the same year that CEOs at MPI got hundreds of thousands of dollars of severance, and then the NDP turned around and hired them as consultants at $200 an hour, Madam Speaker. And that member did absolutely nothing.

We had some concerns and we've taken action, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: Well, the reality is that this minister and this government have taken no action, because their hand-picked CEO and MPI board are meeting with the minister and updating him weekly on this over - expenditure. Even as the CEO received over $30,000 in not one, but two, raises just this year. He was out of the office seven and a half weeks, racking up $88,000 in travels costs. Inside sources say this–quote –this ab- sence has a huge impact on Project Nova.

End quote. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wiebe: Can the minister and the Premier explain: Why do they support giving the MPI CEO massive pay increases all at the same time that Project Nova is $200 million overbudget? Mr. Goertzen: Well, obviously, Madam Speaker, we did have concerns and we acted upon those concerns.

Two directives were sent to the Manitoba Public Insurance Cor poration, one regarding tenders, one regarding inter-organization 'refiew.' That is exactly two times more directives that were sent under the former NDP government at a time when rates for MPI were going up 3 a nd a half per cent, at a time when they were giving hundreds of thousands of dollars of severance for former CEOs and then turning around and hiring them back at $200 an hour and jacking up rates on Manitobans. That member, who sat in the government, did ab- solutely nothing.

We had concerns, we're taking action, as opposed to what they did, which was make Manitobans pay more and do nothing. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wiebe: Well, it's clear that the PCs are desperate to do anything to distract and to distancing themselves from this boondoggle over at MPI called Project Nova. Yet Manitobans know that the issues at MPI are the responsibility of the Premier and this PC gov ern- ment. And they're pay ing for it, Manitobans are paying for it through higher Autopac rates even now.

The PCs hand-picked the CEO and the MPI board that have allowed Project Nova to go $200 million overbudget, and they supported giving the CEO massive raises while they froze MPI employee wages for over two years. That's the record of this PC government. Can the Premier just explain, why does she con- tinue to defend giving the MPI CEO massive raises, all while spending– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr. Goertzen: Absolutely not defending it, and we brought directives in because we have some concerns, Madam Speaker. But let's look what the NDP did.

They increased rates by 3 and a half per cent when they were in gov- ernment. They decided to take money out of MPI and try to give it to universities, and then they got stopped doing that. So then, a few years later, they tried to take money out of MPI and put it into roads and highways because they weren't funding infrastructure properly, and they got stopped doing that. Then they fired CEOs and gave them $100,000 of severance, turned around and rehired them in the cor- poration–one Marilyn McLaren got $50,000 contract.

When we went to com mittee to find out what the contract was for, they stated it was to do nothing. They gave them $50,000 a year to do absolutely nothing and they did nothing about that. They raided MPI. They treated it like their piggy bank. They did nothing. We had concerns, and we're taking actions, Madam Speaker. Political Ad Campaign Funding Election Advertising Rules Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): Manitobans expect– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Sala: –a level playing field when it comes to election advertising.

But Brian Pallister rewrote the rules to create a loophole to try and tilt the playing field in his favour.

2132 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 The PCs are planning to use this loophole in the rules to use gov ernment dollars to advertise their partisan messaging. We think that's wrong. Will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) commit to not using taxpayers' money to advertise issues before this Assembly after August 4th? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Finance): We recog- nize there's rules and, certainly, we intend to play by the rules. That's always been our intent, and I think we've demonstrated that over the last number of years.

And we, certainly, will continue to play by the rules, even though we know opposi tion members rarely do. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a supplementary question. Mr. Sala: Manitobans know this House will rise soon and we won't be coming back until after the election, and that means the gov ernment should not use tax- payer money to advertise issues before this House. But it looks like the Premier is going to try and use the loophole Brian Pallister created to tilt the playing field in her favour. That's wrong, Madam Speaker.

Manitobans deserve a clear answer: Will the Premier commit to not using taxpayers' money to advertise issues before this Assembly after August 4th? Mr. Cullen: I'm glad the member raises October 4th. I know we've got a lot of work ahead of us to make sure that Manitobans fully understand what is in this year's budget. In fact, this year we will reduce individual income tax $524 for Manitobans. When next year's transfers come in, we'll save Manitobans $1,400. I know that's some thing that Manitobans will want to know. That's some thing we want to tell Manitobans.

And, by the way, we'll also tell Manitobans the NDP voted against that. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Sala: It sounds like the Minister of Finance is committing today that they will be exploiting that loophole, and that is deeply unfortunate. We know the Premier has already been cautioned by the Com missioner of Elections for breaking the election law. That's not a good record. And we know the PCs are using gov ernment resources to push their partisan agenda. We think they should not make use of this loophole Brian Pallister created.

There are millions o f dollars of taxpayer money at stake. So, will the Premier be clear: Will the Premier commit today to not using taxpayer money to advertise issues before this Assembly after August 4th? Mr. Cullen: I–just going back in history here and looking at what the NDP did prior to the last couple of elections, we had record expenditures and advertising over the last election, 2016, of $13 million. The previous record high was before the election in 2011: just under $13 million. Madam Speaker, we have spent nowhere near that amount when it comes to prebudget advertising.

Madam Speaker, I will say, and guarantee, this government will play by the rules as they exist. We know the NDP never had and never will. Drug Overdose Death Reporting Request to Pass Bill 221 Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): Manitoba is facing an overdose crisis. The PC government spent months refusing to release the number of overdose deaths in Manitoba in 2022, and we now know why. The preliminary data shows that 418 Manitobans died of overdoses in 2022. That's four hundred and people–four hundred Manitobans–418 loved ones that succumbed to overdoses, while this government refuses to do nothing.

This is shameful, Madam Speaker. The PCs should do the right thing and be transparent and pass Bill 221. * (14:30) Will they commit to doing so today? Hon. Janice Morley-Lecomte (Minister of Mental Health and Community Wellness): I do agree. There are too many laws–lives, sorry–lives lost to addictions. On this side we are committed to provi ding accurate information so Manitobans can see what the–have that information. My department does not provide oversight of the process to determine the overdose deaths.

The Office of the Chief Medical Examiner is responsible for this and it is under the De partment of Justice. And the member opposite needs to reach out to that de part- ment if she needs to know more now.

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2133 Madam Speaker: The honourable member–[interjection] Order. The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Request to Release 2022 Data Mrs. Smith: That minister is the minister of addic - tions and mental health. Why should she be sending me to Justice? She should have access to the numbers so that they could be accurately reflected so the people on the front line could do their work and they can respond accordingly. So I want to ask the minister, it's now May, almost five months into 2023.

We still don't have the data for how many deaths have happened here in our province. So I'll ask the minister: When is the minister going to be transparent? When is the minister going to tell Manitobans how many deaths have happened this year? And when are those preliminary numbers from 2022 actually going to be accurate and listed on a website for Manitobans to see and– Madam Speaker: The honourable member's time has expired. Ms. Morley-Lecomte: I hate to repeat myself, but I will.

The member opposite needs to go and check out the website for the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, and preliminary numbers are posted on there. Those numbers are the numbers that the public has access to. Thank you. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Safe Consumption Site Request for Facility Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): In Estimates yesterday, the minister said that those numbers were actually on her department website. I went on the de- partment website and they were nowhere to be found.

So I'll invite that m inister to actually go look on their website. That is their portfolio and they should be able to give the public those numbers, especially front-line organizations who are actually doing the work so that it could help those so that we're reducing those deaths: 418. We should not be trending up. We don't even know what the number–the final numbers are. So I'll ask this minister: Will they do the right thing–and the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson)–open up a safe consumption site today so that Manitoban lives could be saved? Any organi zation signed on asked this Premier to do that.

Will they do it and open up a safe consump tion site today? Hon. Janice Morley-Lecomte (Minister of Mental Health and Community Wellness): I agree. We need to meet individuals at the levels that they are. We need to provide the services that they seek to reduce harm. But we refuse to leave them there, not like the opposi- tion members who do.

So that is why I want to highlight a couple of the investments that we announced into the program areas over the last week: Huddle, a service that provides mental health, sex abuse and addiction peer support primary care for our youth received funding through our government through The Winnipeg Foundation, RBC Foundation and the Bell -Graham Boeckh Foundation, a great support for youth who are seeking the supports for their mental health. The Link Youth and Family Supports Centre Staff Shortage and Mistreatment Allegations Mr. Dougald Lamont (St.

Boniface): It's now five months since I wrote the Premier asking about whistle- blowers at The Link and allegations–which used to be Macdonald Youth Services–into allegations that that facility was in crisis. The FIPPA I table shows the major concern of the government and Link at the time was shutting down criticism and denying the issue, including the claim that, quote, there are no allegations that children or vulnerable, adults were harmed. They were certainly at risk.

The ministry certainly knew about Fischer Place in The Pas where, in 2021, short -staffing of care for adults with intellectual disabilities, quote, has resulted in chronic vacancies and staff turnover to the extent we're unable to provide services without disruption. End quote. Why does the document say the Depart ment of Families will work closely with The Link, instead of getting to the bottom of the issue, and where is the promised report that was due two months ago? Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister of Families): Our government takes any allegation very seriously because our job No. 1 is to ensure that children and

2134 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 youth receive the protection services that they require when they need them the most. And that is why we've taken serious action against any allegations into any agency, including The Link, and that is why we hired a third party evaluator to go in, in addition to the audit unit within the Department of Families, to work towards ensuring that all children are getting the services that they need, youth are getting the services that they need to ensure that they are protected and are able to access the benefits that they need.

And we're–we've hired a third party evaluator, as the member knows. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: I've heard from many former workers, Indigenous youth and foster parents of The Link who told me about the mistreatment, abuse and staff shortages so bad they were putting children in group homes at risk. I heard from people who were in tears because when they finally read the accounts about the token- ization, abuse and mistreatment of workers, and the fact that their story was finally being told, validated them.

The minister already has the interim investigative report into The Link, which won't actually dea l with any of these complaints, many of them directed against the CEO. Why is this government defending a former NDP Families Minister? Is this gov ernment now siding with the NDP on their abysmal treatment of children in care? Ms.

Squires: While we know that the members oppo- site can spend all kinds of time creating these theories and conspiracies that have absolutely no relevance in reality, the reality is, is that our gov ernment ensures that all the services that we are needing to provide to children and youth and to vulnerable families through- out the province are being delivered. And that is why our government has enhanced the budget.

In fact, the De partment of Families has received a 25 per cent increase in overall expenditures since the time our government took office, something that I would like to point out that that member has voted against each and every single year. If he really cared about the protection of children, he'd vote in favour of these historical increases for the Department of Families. Funding Support for Hearing Aids Individuals Aged 19 to 64 Years Old Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, at noon today, there was a rally in front of the Manitoba Legislature in support of those who are hard of hearing.

Individuals attending the rally were thankful to the gov ernment for heeding our call last year to provide funding for hearing aids for those 65 and older. The rally today was to seek support for similar funding for those with impaired hearing who a re ages 19 to 64 years of age. Hearing aids are a medical necessity. At the rally, we heard from Gladys Nielsen and Tammy Perry about the need for help in this age group. A number of those at the rally are in the gallery today. When will the government provide funding support for hearing aids for those aged 19 to 64 years of age? Hon.

Scott Johnston (Minister of Seniors and Long-Term Care): I'm pleased to hear the member indicate his support for the hearing aid program that the government has implemented. That program was developed through a great deal of consultation and dis- cussion with seniors. And our whole seniors strategy is to fulfill the needs of seniors, which we are doing. We take a whole- of-government approach to everything that we initiate and we have a program that is extremely well received by the public of Manitoba.

And, as we proceed with that program, we will review it and determine whether or not we are –we will pro- ceed further. Public Safety Initiatives New Programs Mr. Len Isleifson (Brandon East): We know that Manitobans do not trust the NDP on anything they say, anything they do, but especially when it comes to addressing crime and public safety. They have opposed bail reform. They have en - couraged governments to defund the police. Can the Minister of Justice please share how our government prioritizes community safety and invest- ments in resources to keep Manitobans safe?

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2135 Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I want to thank my friend from Brandon East for that im portant question. * (14:40) Our Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) and the gov ern- ment of Manitoba has been a leader in calling for bail reform across Canada. But we know that we can't just wait for the federal Liberal government to take action. And that's why, last week, we announced a num- ber of initiatives, including enhanced bail supervision, probation supervision, electronic monitoring super - vision in the province of Manitoba.

We want to ensure that those who are being released are being monitored in our com munities, so that they are not committing more crimes and creating more victims. However, we do need the federal gov ernment to fulfill their commitment to toughen up on bail, so that individuals aren't released when they shouldn't be released. We know that the NDP opposi tion are the only party in Canada who doesn't support that provision. We'll continue to do our job in making Manitoba safer, Manitoba–Madam Speaker. Thompson Aquatic Centre Request for Funding Support Mr.

Eric Redhead (Thompson): In 2019, the Thompson pool closed under this government and has sat closed ever since. An an nouncement was made leading up to the Thompson by -election. In that an nouncement, they announced a project that would cost approximately $15 million. The city of Thompson has put out a tender now for that project, and we know the cost will be well over $20 million. Will this gov ernment stop dragging its feet and increase their contributions to the Thompson aquatic centre so the children of Thompson have a safe place to swim? Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Finance): Well, Madam Speaker, we recog nize the challenges that communities like Thompson are facing with cost overruns. Our prov incial go vernment is finding the same thing. We have $5 million on the table.

In addition to Thompson and the aquatic facility, we've also just recently completed $15-million invest- ment into water and sewer lines; we're currently redeveloping the Miles Hart Bridge–$36 million; we're in the–currently in the middle of upgrading the prov- incial courthouse–$17 million; we just invested in a waste-water treatment plant–$12 million; we just put $2.8 million into a healing serving centre for the com- munity; affordabl e housing, another $1.2 million; MKO youth restorative justice facility –$2.8 million; PR 280–$2.4 million; Thompson library–$30,000; UCN funding– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired.

The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Health-Care Coverage Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background for this petition is as follows:

(1) Health care is a basic human right and a funda- mental part of responsible public health. Many people in Manitoba are not covered by provincial health care, such as migrant workers with work permits of less than one year, international students and those undocumented residents who have lost their status for a variety of reasons.

(2) Racialized people and communities are disproportionately affected by the pandemic, mainly due to the social and economic conditions which leave them vulnerable while performing essential work in a variety of industries in Manitoba.

(3) Without adequate health- care coverage, if they are ill, many of the uninsured will avoid seeking health care due to fear of being charged for the care, and some will fear possible detention and deportation if their immigration status is repor ted to the authorities.

(4) According to the United Nations Human Rights Committee, denying essential health care for undocumented, irregular migrants is a violation of their rights.

(5) Jurisdictions across Canada and the world have adopted access -without-fear policies to prevent sharing personal health information or immigration status with immigration authorities and to give uninsured residents the confidence to access health care.

(6) The pandemic has clearly identified the need for everyone in Manitoba to have access to health care

2136 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 to protect the health and safety of all who live in the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to imme - diately provide comprehensive and free health -care coverage to all residents of Manitoba, regardless of immigration status, including refugee claimants, migrant workers, international students, dependant children of temporary residents and undocumented residents.

(2) To urge the minister of Health and seniors care to undertake a multilingual communication campaign to provide information on expanded coverage to all affected residents.

(3) To urge the minister of Health and seniors care to inform all health-care institutions and providers to expand c overage for those without health- care in - surance and the details on how necessary policy and protocol changes will be implemented; and, finally,

(4) To urge the minister of Health and seniors care to create and enforce strict confidentiality policies and provide staff with training to protect the safety of residents with precarious immigration status and ensure they can access health care without jeo pard- izing their ability to remain in Canada. This petition, Madam Speaker, is signed by many Manitobans. Thank you. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Diagnostic Testing Accessibility Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Until recently, diagnostic medical tests, in - cluding for blood and fluid samples, were available and accessible to most medical clinics.

(2) Dynacare blood test labs have consolidated their blood and fluid testing services by closing 25 of its labs.

(3) The provincial government has cut diagnostic testing at many clinic sites, and residents now have to travel to different locations to get their testing done, even for a simple blood test or a urine sample.

(4) Further, travel challenges for vulnerable and elderly residents of northeast Winnipeg may result in fewer tests being done or delays in testing, with the attendant effects of increased health -care costs and poorer individual patient outcomes.

(5) COVID-19 emergency rules have resulted in long outdoor lineups, putting vulnerable residents at risk–further risk in extreme weather, be it hot or cold. Moreover, these long lineups have resulted in longer wait times for services and poorer services in general.

(6) Manitoba residents value the convenience and efficiency of the health -care system when they are able to get their samples at the same time–give their samples at the same time of the doctor visit. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to immedi - ately demand Dynacare maintain all the phlebotomy, blood sample, sites existing prior to the COVID -19 public health emergency, and allow all Manitobans to get their blood and urine tests done when visiting their doctor, thereby facilitating local access to the blood testing services.

And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans. Foot-Care Services Mr. Eric Redhead (Thompson): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background of this petition is as follows:

(1) The population of those aged 55-plus has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson.

(2) The–a large percentage of those people in this age group require medical necessary foot care and treatment.

(3) A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are living on low incomes.

(4) The northern regional health author ity, N-R-H-A, previously provided medical foot -care services to seniors and those living with diabetes until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired.

(5) The number of seniors and those with diabetes has only continued to grow in Thompson and the surrounding areas.

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2137

(6) There is no adequate medical care available in the city and the region,

whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres.

(7) The implications of inadequate or lack of podiatric care can lead to amputations.

(8) The city of Thompson also serves as a regional health-care service provider, and the need for foot care extends beyond just those served in the capital city of the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore essential medical foot-care treatment to the city of Thompson, effective April 1st, 2022. This petition is signed by Tracy Boxell, Russell Boxell, Kelly Selminak [phonetic]. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Drug Overdose Reporting Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Across the province, many Manitobans con- tinue to struggle with addictions, and the pandemic has led to even more deaths and worsened the ongoing public health crisis of opioid overdoses. * (14:50)

(2) Three hundred and seventy -two Manitobans died from an overdose in 2020, and that's over one a day and 87 per cent higher than in 2019.

(3) Manitoba is expected to exceed over 400 over- dose deaths in 2021, but the data is not publicly available since the last public reporting of opioid deaths was published in 2019.

(4) The data for drug overdose deaths from 2020 and 2021 was compiled through media inquiries, and this needs to change.

(5) Access to timely data on the harms of drugs helps to inform both government and stakeholders on where to take action and target resources needed in various communities.

(6) Manitoba is the only province not provi ding regular, timely data to the federal gov ernment opioid informational–information portal.

(7) Manitobans deserve a gov ernment that takes the growing drug crisis seriously and will report the data publicly in a timely manner to target actions and allow for accountability. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial gov ernment to enact Bill 217, The Fatality Inquiries Amendment Act (Overdose Death Reporting), to require the Province to publish the number of drug overdose deaths, as well as the type of drug, on a gov ernment website in a timely fashion. And this has been signed by Donna Bellow, Tim Bellow, Donna Bartram and many other Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Pursuant to rule 34(7), I'm announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered on th e next Tuesday, at private members' business, will be the one put forward by the hon ourable member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer). The title of that reso lution is Committing to Balancing Future Budgets While Keeping Life Affordable for Manitoba Families.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honourable member for Brandon West. The title of the resolution is Committing to Balancing Future Budgets While Keeping Life Affordable for Manitoba Families. * * * Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, could you please resolve the House into Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estima tes this afternoon. This House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

2138 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 MENTAL HEALTH AND COMMUNITY WELLNESS * (15:00) The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifso n): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the De partment of Mental Health and Community Wellness. Questioning for this department will continue in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): So, I just have a few undertakings for the minister. I'm hoping that the minister can under take to give a list of all technical appointments in her de partment, including names and titles. Hon.

Janice Morley-Lecomte (Minister of Mental Health and Community Wellness): So, there are two technical appointments: Danielle Orvis is the execu - tive assistant and Laura Guttormson is the special assistant. Mrs. Smith: Can the minister under take to give an organizational chart that lists all employees and pro - gram areas? Ms. Morley -Lecomte: If the member would go to page 14 of the supplement of Estimates. Mrs. Smith: Yes. So I am aware of page 14, but what I'm asking for is a breakdown of all employees, as well as program areas.

So, this is in the de partment, but I am asking for organi zational chart with all the employees and the program areas. And if the minister can undertake that, that would be great, because it's not in this, and I'm sure it's going to take time to put that together. Ms. Morley-Lecomte: So, there are three admin, two tech, one deputy; and under the deputy, there are two admin and one policy person, two ADMs; and under the two ADMs, there are two executive directors, four managers, two collective policy analysts. In total, there are about 75 employees. Mrs.

Smith: I did ask if the minister would provide an organizational chart that lists all employees as well as program areas. So, if the minister can under take that. I know you've given me some of that, but, again, employees–all employees and program areas. So, programs that are administered by the department. Ms. Morley-Lecomte: So, we can provide the chart and the different program areas, but the employee names are not included on the chart. Mrs. Smith: Yes, and that's fine. If the member –or the minister can undertake that.

So, my next question: Can the minister give a list of all current vacancies in the department as a number and a percentage? Mr. Dennis Smook, Chairperson, in the Chair Ms. Morley-Lecomte: Okay. So, as of March 31st, 2020, the executive has 14.5 total full -time. Total filled are 14. Total vacancy–0.5. * (15:10) The mental health and recovery, as of March 31st, 2023, has 33.7 total full -time.

Total filled are 31.9; total vacancy, 1.8; wellness, as of March 31st, 2023, 14 full-time; total filled, 13; total vacancy, 1, with a total as of March 31st, 2023, of 60.2 full -time; total filled, 58.9; total vacant, 1.3 or 2 per cent. Mrs. Smith: I thank the minister for those answers. Yesterday, I asked about the 1,000 beds and how the government defines addiction treatment spaces. If the de partment says they're investing in 1,000 spaces, is 1,000 different spaces or spaces that they can serve 1,000 people? For example, 1,000 spaces serves 10 people each. Ms.

Morley -Lecomte: I'd just like to remind the member that in the November 15th, 2022, Throne Speech, it stated our gov ernment was co mmitted to increasing and supporting 1,000 treatment spaces in the province to ensure everyone who was seeking treatment had access to the supports. The reason for the commitment to spaces is that not all services required are bed-based. We know we need a continuum of addiction supports in the province. So, for example, mobile withdrawal services are offered in a person's home; intensive day program - ming is not a bed- based treatment. It's not all in the facility. Mrs.

Smith: So, the minister claims that the Province is investing in 1,000 treatment spaces; it's even written on page 20 of the Estimates book.

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2139 Yet the government's own request for expression of interest posted on MERX makes it clear what 1,000 spaces actually means. On page 2, it says: This initiative will enable up to 1,000 treatment spaces, people served, to receive substance-use addiction services. A table makes it even clearer–even more clear. In the same document, the Province is looking to build 155 spaces, not 1,000. Can the min ister explain, does she think it's misleading when she says the PC government is going to build 1,000 spaces, when in reality it's far less? * (15:20) Ms.

Morley-Lecomte: So, no, that is not misleading. That is how you measure or track the capacity in th e system. So 300 of the 1,000 treatment spaces have already been announced, and the ad ditional capacity is being purchased through Shared Health and the regional health authority yet to be announced. So the remaining amount went out through the expression of interest, and it would go through sup- portive recovery housing, adult bed- based treatment services, multifunctional bed- based transition sup- ports and intensive day programming. MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Could the minister repeat th e first part?

Would you actually mind repeating your entire response? I missed the first part. I want to make sure that I've captured it properly. Ms. Morley-Lecomte: No, it is not misleading , the measuring and tracking of the capacity in the system. And then it–we've already announced 300 of the 1,000 treatment spaces. And then the additional capa- city is being purchased through Shared Health and the regional health author ity, and that is yet to be announced.

And the remaining number of spaces – treatment spaces went out through an EOI for support- ive recovery housing, adult bed- based treatment services, multi -functional bed- based transition sup- ports and intensive day program. MLA Asagwara: Can the minister clarify, did she say that the ad ditional–the remaining spaces are to be purchased through Shared Health, and then she said something subsequent to that. So, was it EOI that –I just–I'm not clear. What does that acronym represent that she's saying? Ms. Morley-Lecomte: EOI is expression of interest.

MLA Asagwara: So, I think it is misleading that, you know, the minister and the Province would say that they're claiming 1,000–they're creating 1,000 new spaces when, in reality, when you add the numbers up, it doesn't appear that those are actually 1, 000 new beds, which I'm sure they're aware the general public, that's how they interpret it. And, you know, and also very curious to know about timelines because that's–it's a big announcement.

This minister is saying they've already announced 300 of th ose 1,000 beds and there's going to be an expression of interest for others and more to be purchased through Shared Health, et cetera. But that doesn't provide any comfort to families whose family members cannot access beds right now. And there's no clarity around when folks who are in need of those beds that don't truly total 1,000 are going to be able to access those services.

So, with that in mind, because we know the reality of it is that Manitobans are not only being turned away from services that thi s gov ernment purports to be meeting the need, like RAAM services, which turn away many Manitobans who are in desperate need of care. We also know that folks are waiting to be able to access treatment beds. And, you know, treatment being detox bed or longer term treatment. So I'm wondering if the minister can provide clear information around what the average wait time is for someone who does have to wait to access bed -based addiction services.

And if the minister could articulate, you know, what areas those waits are in. Is it for detox beds? Is it for longer term treatment? How long, on average, are those folks waiting to access the varying types of beds that are available? And, you know, breaking that down by what is the top 10 per cent of wait times, just as an example. And with that in mind, has the de partment set a goal to reduce those wait times? Maybe I'm being a little greedy. I see the minister nodding and–loading a lot into that question. But thank you. * (15:30) Ms.

Morley -Lecomte: So, I just want to begin by stating it's treatment spaces, it's not beds. So when we said 1,000, we meant treatment spaces. That's what we're advertising for. And not all the services that are required are essentially bed-based. There are other services that an individual may need to access, depending upon where they are.

2140 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 We have home services, the mobile withdrawal unit services so individuals, if they're unable to access a service, are able to take the services in their home. If they have children, they c an take services at their home. Days, evenings, services provided go to the needs of the individual so that we can assist them at the level that they're needing the support for. With RAAM clinics, we've announced six. There is a seventh to be opening, whi ch is seven more than were previously in place prior to those.

So, we've done seven RAAM clinics, and the road map identifies the needs for consistency in reporting for the targets for individuals, so use the road map. Mrs. Smith: So, I think the question was pretty clear. I'd asked, how long on average is someone waiting to access treatment beds? And the minister outlined, you know, the RAAM clinic, which we know, like, three to four people get into a day. There's all sorts of ramifications with that in terms of someone that's ready to get into treatment and going there and being turned away, or an appointment being made.

We know that there's not enough beds for folks to actually get into recovery when they're ready to get into recovery. So, the que stion was, what is the wait time, and what is the top 10 per cent of wait times? So, if the minister can provide that, that would be great. And what is the goal? It says to reduce it by 5 per cent. Ms. Morley-Lecomte: I think it is a little concerning that the member opposite doesn't support RAAM clinics and the work of the service providers that they provide for the community.

The wait times to access withdrawal management services vary and fluctuate depending upon the pro- gram, the number of people requiring the service at that time. Wait times can range from immediate access to up to one month. The wait times for bed-based treatment beds vary significantly between programs and change on a month-to-month basis. And wait times for support of recove ry housing units also vary significantly between programs and are dependent upon the flow of residents in the inde pen- dent housing. Mrs. Smith: In nowhere did I say that I did not support RAAM clinics.

I've had RAAM clinic staff approach me and talk to me about bringing their voice to the Manitoba Legislature because they have to turn people away, and there has been people that have left there and have lost their lives. So, I want to be clear. I support RAAM clinics, but I support them with more resourc es.

They are under-resourced; they're only open a certain amount of hours a day; they're not able to get folks into treat- ment right away; they're often given–their hands are tied; folks that are there have to wait in line at like 5:30, 6 in the morning, and staff are saying that they're only able to take three or four. And many times that those folks that are coming in, they have to give them appointments to come back, and then they don't see them again. There's a certain amount of window that they need to be able to get into treatment.

So, again, I'll ask the minister–and I find it prob- lematic that the minister can't even give us an average. Like, they're saying it's an average of a month. Well, how many people are waiting, for how long, for bed- based addiction services? And it says the goal is to reduce it by 5 per cent. Again, bed- based addiction services. So, I'll ask the minister again: How long is some- one waiting to access bed -based addiction services? What's the top 10 per cent of wait times? And the department has set the goal to reduce the wait times by 5 per cent. Where is the department on that? * (15:40) Ms.

Morley-Lecomte: So, there is no central wait-list for services. The services are provided by many com- munity agencies, and the y have their own unique criteria for admission. So, when we're speaking about wait times, we tend to speak as an average wait time to get into a facility. The 5 per cent target that you're referencing is a measure that would be projected for the end of 2023-2024, once everything has been put in place with the 5 per cent wait times. So, some of the numbers–I can give you some of the numbers for wait times.

So, we have–our P-C men's day program is 38 days; the Compass, male, 37; Compass, female, 35; problem gambling, men, 35 days, women, 35; and Brandon, Parkwood, female, wait time is 65 days. Mr. Chairperson: Just a friendly reminder, before I– we're doing very well here, but just to keep it in line,

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2141 we should, you know, go through the Chair so that way it doesn't, you know, lead into anything. So, thank you very much. Mrs. Smith: Thank you for that reminder. I would ask the minister if they could actually provide–undertake to provide a breakdown for each program that the de partment supports, whether that's through Main Street Project or a Siloam Mission or Behavioural Health Foundation.

I'm sure that, you know, those organizations report to the department on how many, you know, folks are accessing their services, how many folks are waiting get into t hose services. The minister also referenced they've already created 300 of the thousand spaces. So I'd also like the minister to undertake or let us know where those 300 spaces are. And the minister also talked about –that's the 2023-24 projection. We're in a couple of months and, you know, certainly 300 beds would start to break that 5 per cent down. So if there's 300 beds now, you know, where are those beds? What's the impact?

And if they can under take, again, to provide the numbers for the different treatment spaces that they provide funding to. * (15:50) Ms. Morley-Lecomte: For the 300 spaces –so, up to 300 spaces were announced for Prairie Mountain Health, for Brandon, for Portage with Shared Health, Southern Health and Interlake 'easten' health in the Ashern hospital. The information of the wait times in that is not something that is shared, so I would direct the member to go back to each of the agencies that she's seeking this information from and ask them for it. Mrs.

Smith: I find it probl ematic that the minister wouldn't have access to those average wait times from organizations that they actually provide funding to, because ultimately they report to your department. And, you know, if there's a greater need –which we know that there is –and we know that these wait times, and–we still haven't, you know, been given an answer from the minister on what the actual wait times are, the average wait times for, you know, across Manitoba. We've heard an nouncements of beds; we don't even know if those beds have opened up.

We know that there's no services provided for folks that are actually sitting on a waiting list, that they're just left without any support. And some have not even made it to recovery and have lost their lives waiting to get into detox or treatment which is, you know, very disheartening. So I would, you know, suggest to the minister that they should be consulting and actually looking at these numbers, and actually looking so that it guides them in the direction that it's going t o reduce these wait times. If you have a 5 per cent goal, how are you meeting that goal if you're not even looking at these numbers?

And you're–sent me to Justice yesterday for the medical examiner, you're–now you're asking me to go to these different orga nizations to get these numbers that the minister should have access to. Like, these are Manitoban lives. These are people that are waiting to get into treatment, and we're play- ing with, you know, here, go here, go there, you go get the numbers yourself. It's not for me; I'm asking for, actually, family members that are waiting to get their loved ones into treatment. And I shared yesterday, my brother-in-law was in treatment three times.

Came out; no services offered, no wraparound services. While he waited to get into treatment, he lost his life. So, these are very im portant questions that I'm asking. They're not questions that are just, you know, I'm trying to catch the minister in some kind of web or anything. These are people that are actually waiting and need to know how long they have to wait to get into treatment. You know, I've been speaking to a mother today that's watching these proceedings, and they want to know. You know, you gave a few numbers of some day programs: 68 days to get into a day program.

How long is it to get into a bed -based program where actually you get the supports that you need? So, whether it's 30 days, whether it's 60 days, whether it's 90, or six months or up to a year, those numbers should be available to the minister. And the minister should be accountable to Manitobans and be able to provide those numbers. You know, it's very disheartening to sit here and hear the minister say, well go to behavioural foundation and ask them what– how long their wait time is. Go to Main Street Project. Like, you're government.

Our job is to ask these questions and to get answers, and I don't understand why the minister wouldn't want to provide those answers. Those answers are going to help guide the response. You know, you're saying 1,000 beds. We probably need double that, if not triple that.

2142 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 So, I'm going to move on from that, but I just wanted to state that. So, on page 24 of the Estimates book, it says that the department prepared draft legislation and regula- tions on the s ubject of licensing public and private addiction organizations. What has the minister heard from the addictions organizations on these proposed changes? And does the minister think that the fact that front-line commu- nity organizations universally oppose their proposed licensing regulations, as these regulations would have hampered addiction services? Ms.

Morley-Lecomte: So, I just want to go back to the member's previous comments. The information on wait times and services, we have. But it is confidential and it is not for the department to share. There is also an ex pectation that part of the standards to be put in place would have been put in place with a bill that we presented, but the bill was stopped by yourselves. So, we absolutel y cannot share any infor mation because it is not uni versal for individuals to have access to that knowledge. And I would like– Mr. Chairperson: Oh, the honour able Minister of Mental Health and Community Wellness. Ms.

Morley-Lecomte: Okay, thank you–and to have the member repeat the question. MLA Asagwara: I just want to get clarity. So, the minister is saying that the wait times, which at first she stated they didn't have access to, now the minis - ter's clarifying they do have access to the information around wait times, but that that information is confi- dential and cannot be shared beyond the department. * (16:00) What mechanism is it? Is it a part of

an act? What is it exactly that precludes the minister from disclosing what those wait times are? The minister also just stated that Bill 33 would have established standards that would have allowed for the minister –would have allowed–standards that would have allowed the minister to make public that information. So, what is the mechani sm spe cifically that is preventing the minister from being trans parent and providing the information around wait times right now and generally, as stated by the minister? Ms. Morley-Lecomte: So, not naming the individual organization, and the wait times is con fidential.

And we don't want to share that on public record. And the public reporting of the aggregated wait - list is a priority of the roadmap. So the road mapping will put the aggregated numbers on that. MLA Asagwara: So, I see that the minister has aban- doned her narrative, almost imme diately–effectively immediately. So, the minister stated that the informa- tion was confi dential and that couldn't be provided and would've been able to be provided if we hadn't stopped a bill they brought forward.

Yet, in her response to my question for her to identify spe cifically what is the mechanism that is precluding the minister from provi ding this informa- tion, there's no clarity around what that mechanism is. Is it a piece of legislation? Is it something somewhere that we should be talking about? And the minister also makes no mention of the legislation she claims would've been a way for them to actually provide that information.

So, that is a bit– from my perspective, that's a bit con cerning because it reflects that, for whatever the reasons are, the minis- ter isn't wanting to be trans parent about why it is or what it is that she says is preventing them, that is resulting in this information being confidential, which is a pretty strong statement. * (16:10) To say that that information is confidential, but to not clarify what makes it confidential, what is prevent- ing her from provi ding it when, you know, we've asked questions along those lines in other Estimates committees, and that information is readily provided.

And if it's not available imme diately, it's undertaken to be provided at a later date. And so I'm concerned that there's some potential mechanism in place here within this particular depart- ment that isn't allowing the minister to provide that information. Yet, the minister won't provide clarity as to what that mechanism is.

Further to my point regarding this legislation that the minister did bring forward that, yes, we have stopped, I think it's important to talk about the fact that front-line community organizations, front-line organi- zations, service providers, com munity health pro- viders, have been unified– medical experts, doctors, have been clear –that that legis lation would directly

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2143 impede and harm the efforts of folks who are provi - ding life-saving health care to those struggling with addictions. You know, myself, everyone, I think, is well aware I am a nurse by back ground. I'm a psychiatric nurse. I'm also an addictions specialist. I'm somebody who has trained hundreds and hundreds of Manitobans to provide care to family members, to people across the province struggling with addictions, folks struggling with co-occurring disorders, so mental health disorders and challenges alongside addictions issues.

And through all of my training–years of training, education, front -line ex perience as a health -care provider working with families, I would not position myself as somebody who should be the be-all, end-all on the –on what legis lation should look like to best help families.

I recog nize, as we all should, that there are a number of experts, organi zations, front -line service providers, workers who should be informing us, who we should be working with to make sure that we're doing what is necessary and evidence-backed to save lives of those struggling with addictions and provide them the services and supports they need. And so, I think it's really concern ing that the minister continues to try to condemn or criticize.

Not us in opposi tion, because what you're actually –what the minister is actually doing is being critical and condemning the very people that we thank for saving lives in our province. They're the ones who have been unified in their criticism of this government, bringing forward legislation, licensing, regulations that would directly impact the ability of folks to support those in communities who desperately need it. And so, what does the minister have to say to those organizations?

What does the minister have to say about her position that she opposes the experts and the front -line commu nity organizations who have made clear that the licensing regulations that this minister has brought forward would have hampered, would have inter fered with, would hav e harmed addictions services? Does the minister think that all of those folks are simply wrong, and that it's her perspective that matters most? What's the minister's position on that? Ms. Morley -Lecomte: So, I'm going to begin by saying that I am not condemning or critical of services, and there is not unanimous consent.

Recog- nizing front-line workers and the work that they do to support the individuals seeking the support from service providers is very im portant, and I have met with front-line workers prior to, and as, the minister of this portfolio. And I do not contradict myself when I am posting wait times–sorry–interests are provided accurate infor- mation to Manitoba's agencies, are not calling them out by specific name. And then, just to further correct, it's a small group of critics, but I would not agree there is a unified perspective.

We have strong supports from organi - zations and experts on the standards and associated legislation. Yesterday, the critic described all the services that are ideal in a supervised con sumption site, none of which are a requirement to receive author ity to operate a site. I think we can all agree we need to make these sites as safe as possible and help connect in - dividuals to care.

The only way to do this is to ensure clinical staff are available on site and there is an ex pectation on organizations to help connect individuals with mental health and addiction services, all of which were the foundation of the bill. Mr. Chairperson: The honourable member for Point– [interjection] Sorry, I may not have had my mic on. The hon- ourable member for Point Douglas. Mrs.

Smith: Well, I'm very disappointed in the minis- ter's response to that because there were 80 organi- zations, a number of doctors, who wrote to t he minister opposing that bill and really outlined how it would impede the work that they're doing in terms of saving lives and Manitobans. I encouraged the minister yesterday to go visit a safe con sumption site, to actually not walk by like their prede cessor and take pictures. Or like the Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) saying that, you know, she visited a safe consumption site in a place where there was not even a safe con sumption site, misleading Manitobans, both the 'predecess' minister and the Premier. And now we have a new minister. So, this minister has an op portunity to do the right thing, to help save Manitoban lives. And I encourage the minister to go visit those 80 organizations that are on the front lines that are doing that work, life -saving work, to go and meet with them, to actually go and

2144 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 tour. As well as go and tour the mobile overdose pre- vention vehicle. They were just here last week. You know, I came. They've been doing life-saving work. So, I'm going to move on from that because we're not getting any answers, which is unfortunate because, you know, if I go onto a website and I look, if I want to go to an urgent care, I can see how long the wait times are. I can go and see how long a wait time is for surgery. I can go see how long a wait time is to get into emergency rooms.

But yet, there's nowhere that anyone can access wait times. * (16:20) And I wasn't asking the minister to provide site by site. I simply asked, like–you know, you're providing funds to these organizations. As a collective, in all of the organizations that you provide funding to for bed- based treatment, what was the average wait time? So, I wasn't asking for names. I was simply asking for the average wait time. And then the minister said there was policy and t hat this, you know, bill would have allowed that to happen. Then the narrative shifted.

So, I'm going to move on, because clearly, you know, the minister doesn't want to provide those answers to Manitobans. And Manitobans want to know those answers, should know those answers, should have confi dence in their gov ernment that they're being trans parent. And that someone that wants to access treatment should know how long it's going to take them or how long a family's going to have to wait to support thi s person, this individual, before they get into treatment. There's no services before they get into treatment. People are dying before they get into treatment.

They're dying after they get out of treatment because there's no wraparound services. So, I'll move on. My next question has to do with HIV cases in Manitoba, and if the minister can provide how many HIV cases were recorded in 2022 and how many were a result of using drugs. Ms. Morley-Lecomte: I just want to put on the record that I have spoken to and visited some of the agencies on that list and I have actually toured the overdose prevention site. So–and repeat your question. Sorry. Mrs. Smith: My question was, how many HIV cases have been reported in 2020 and how many were attributed to drug use?

But I'm also going to put another question in there just for the sake of time. And it's nice to hear that the minister has actually visited the mobile pre vention site. And that –so I'd ask the minister, one of the reasons why safe consumption sites are so im portant and help save lives is that they provide people with clean needles so that blood-borne diseases aren't being transmitted, such as HIV. Does the minister agree that safe con sumption sites would help reduce the spread of diseases like HIV, syphilis? Ms.

Morley -Lecomte: So, HIV falls under Health, and you need to speak with Public Health on this issue. That being said, the Department of Mental Health and Community Wellness and Manitoba Health work col- laboratively to address harms related to substance use and provide policy planning, funding and oversight to HR initiatives. Departments work together to integrate policy interventions, including training for health and social service practitioners, improve data trans parency, and enable collaboration between service delivery organi- zations and community-based organizations.

Mental Health and Community Wellness invests almost 1 and a half million dollars annually in harm-reduction initiatives. These initiatives include support for harm-reduction-based organizations, pro- viding safer sex, safer substance use supplies. Overall, the government invests over $2.2 million in harm reduction: one and a half for mental health and community wellness, and $700,000 for Manitoba Health's take-home naloxone kits.

Other investments that we have are: $210,000 for the take-home naloxone kit with over 200 distribution sites; on November 1st, 2022, we announced Narcan pilot program, which invested $200,000 to make Narcan easily administered form of naloxone accessi- ble to RAAM clinics; invested almost $215,000 in funding to support St. Boniface Street Links Outreach and support of inter vention for people who use substances; the OASIS project is led by a multi - disciplinary team and will provide support to approximately 80 people ex periencing homelessness and are struggling with substance use.

And on December 16, 2022, we also publicly released substance-related harm stat, including infor- mation on fatalities due to drug overdose, substance use, hospital admissions, emergency de partment

May 9, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2145 visits, substance -related calls responded to by the fire–Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service. The–there's also –the de partment has also made significant investments in clean needle programs. * (16:30) Mrs. Smith: We often hear this notion of whole -of- government approach, but yet what I'm hearing from the minister is yet again shirking the responsibility to another department. The minister should wholly have these numbers at their disposal.

It should be something that is guiding their response in their de partment, because it is a leading cause –drug use –in terms of some of these blood-borne diseases, especially HIV. So, how can you properly, you know, service these agenc ies and know actually what's happening if you're, you know, leaving it with Health? Like, it is a respon sibility of your department, not Health. And when we look at the medical examiners–and I know–I think that the minister is just as frustrated as I am, and maybe could direct their staff to, you know, find those numbers.

If they're on the De partment of Health's website, then perhaps the minister can ask the staff to find those numbers and provide those numbers. It's not, you know, this web that w e're trying to entangle you in. We're trying to find physical numbers for Manitobans to actually get the infor mation out. People don't know how much HIV is rampant and the symbiotic relationship between syphilis and HIV that's happening in our province, because our govern- ment is not doing anything to let the public know.

So, again, you know, I–it's frustrating to hear the minister continually say, go here, go there, when this whole-of-government approach obviously isn't a whole-of-government approach. It's this de partment does this work, and I don't know anything about what that department does; I don't have the numbers. It's very frustrating to say the least. And I just want to remind the minister that there are people watching these proceedings. They do go in to read com mittee reports. They are looking for answers, especially our front -line organizations that help–these numbers help guide their response.

And these numbers should be helping guide this gov ern- ment's response. And I hear, you know, these these numbers being thrown out of, you know, yes, we're provi ding this. But these numbers are trending up, so obviously not enough is being done. And how can you know what the response can be if you're not even looking at the numbers? You're saying, oh, that's Health, let Health deal with those HIV numbers.

I'm asking specifically, if you don't want to pro- vide the numbers of how many people were –how many people contracted HIV, perhaps the member–or the minister can provide how many me mber–how many individuals contracted HIV through drug use? Ms. Morley-Lecomte: So, I will agree with the mem- ber opposite: we do have a whole -of-government approach and tables where departments work closely with other de partments, including Health, Justice, to release the data online, and that's including the 'overdith' data and the HIV rates. For 2020, there were 117 cases of HIV new to Manitoba, compared to 119 in 2019. Mrs.

Smith: So, the minister just gave numbers for 2020, and we had the seco nd highest rate of HIV nationwide for 2020. I did ask for the numbers for 2022 and the numbers for how many were a result of using drugs. So, if the minister could provide those. Ms. Morley-Lecomte: The question I had heard was 2020, not 2022. So, I'll see if I can get you that. Mrs. Smith: Okay, I appreciate that. I might have said 2020 too. I apologize. So, I'm going to move on, while the minister is looking for those answers, to the suicide epidemic. And I've spoken about those in the House.

You know, there's been several epidemics in our First Nation communities. I was up in Tataskweyak when there was 19 suicides that happened, young people. So, I'd ask the minister: What–how many suicides have there been in Manitoba over the past five years, and if the minister can provide a breakdown by demo- graphic? * (16:40) Ms. Morley -Lecomte: So, the dev elopment of a provincial suicide prevention strategy is a priority for our gov ernment, as identified in both the Mental Health and Community Wellness five-year road map and the 2022 Speech from the Throne.

The strategy will build upon existing supports to create a prov incially co -ordinated approach for the prevention of suicide, with a special focus on at -risk populations.

2146 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 9, 2023 Investing in evid ence-based mental health pro - motion in schools through programs like Indigenous youth mentorship project, Project 11, Thrival Kits is a key part of our efforts to promote the mental well - being of all children. Suicide numbers fall under the Chief Medical Examiner's office, but I will read the numbers that I have: from 2018, the total number of individuals who passed away from suicide were 236; 2019, 232; 2020, 215; 2021, 198; and the 2022 numbers haven't been posted. Mrs.

Smith: I thank the minister for lo oking that up and actually provi ding those numbers. I wish that would've went on for the duration of our couple of days here because it could have made– you know, I think things go way more smoothly. I don't have access to those numbers. Neither do the public. So, you know, it's being trans parent and helping guide the direction that this government needs to go. I didn't hear it broken down by demographics. I'm hoping possibly the minister could under take that, if they can't provide it right now.

And then, the minister did reference that there is a provincially co-ordinated plan for the prevention of suicide among children, youth and adults, with a special focus on at-risk communities and populations. When will this plan be completed? Will it be publicly available? And when will it be implemented? Ms. Morley-Lecomte: Okay, thank you. Which would you like? Mrs. Smith: I can break the questions down, if that's what the minister is asking. I put those together so that they all kind of combine each other. So, I asked when will the plan be completed?

So, the minister referenced the provincial plan–co-ordinated plan for the prevention of suicide among children, youth and adults. When will this plan be completed? Ms. Morley-Lecomte: So, the provincial co-ordinated plan is–after December 2023, it will begin. But we haven't been waiting for that start, so that's why we've making seven investments in youth and adolescents to support the needs that they have. It'll be publicly available at that–after December. And the timeline, the imple mentation is a three - year plan and it will be implemented over those three years, as was discussed with stakeholders.

Now, the –so, the demogra phics. We have in 2018–I just need to–do you want it broken down per– sorry, through the Chair –I don't know how this is through, like, 20 to 30, 35 to 39, that's –I don't know how in-depth– Mr. Chairperson: The honourable member for Point Douglas. Mrs. Smith: I would say by, maybe gender, as well as age. Ms. Morley-Lecomte: Okay, thank you. So in 2018, there were 162 males, 74 females. In 2019: 172 males, 60 females. In 2020: 150 males, 65 females. In 2021: 122 males, 64 females.

Okay, so, in 2018: ages 10 to 19, 25; 20 to 29, 63; 30 to 39, 28; 40 to 49, 31; 50 to 59, 44; 60 to 69, 28; 70 to 79, eight; 80 and older, nine. In 2019: ages 10 to 19, there were 22; 20 to 29, 55; 30 to 39, 50; 40 to 49, 29; ages 50 to 59, 35; age 60 to 69, 27; age 70 to 79, nine; and 80 and older, five. In 2020: ages 10 to 19, there were 16; ages 20 to 29, 55; ages 30 to 39, 52; ages 40 to 49, 32; ages 50 to 59, 26; age 60 to 69, 21; age 70 to 79, seven; 80 and over, six.

And in 2021: ages 10 to 19, there were 29; 20 to 29, 49; ages 30 to 39, 37; age 40 to 49, 24; age 50 to 59, 25; age 60 to 69, 13; age 70 to 79, 16; and

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-5-51b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 5th hansardpdf 51b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	effef8f0a9e7929fe545f603506657419831347c

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