May 30,

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLI No. 60

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Lush): Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER WELLS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask the indulgence of the House to give me two or three

minutes to make a few comments, because I have to leave very shortly to catch a

flight to attend the Maritime Premiers' Conference.

Mr. Speaker, I do not know that it is absolutely certain - I

suppose nothing in this world is absolutely certain - but the probability is

that today will be the last that the Leader of the Opposition sits as Leader of

the Opposition in this House. Whether he may even find another vocation besides

being a Member of the House, in the meantime is, I suppose, a possibility but I

will not comment on that; I will leave that for him to say. But I think it is

fairly certain that this is the last day he will sit in the House as Leader of

the Opposition.

In that respect, Mr. Speaker, I want to say that while the

nature of our parliamentary system provides for what might be described akin to

our legal system for an adversarial system of operation, where we have her

Majesty's Loyal Opposition, whose duty it is to criticize to the severest degree

reasonable or appropriate in the circumstance, the Government, by that means,

the objective of keeping the Government on its toes, dedicated to its purposes

and honest and straightforward in performing the duties on behalf of the

taxpayers of the Province is supposed to be achieved. I believe, largely,

whoever sits on this side of the House, whichever parties form the Government,

from time to time, I think the system of Opposition and Government has

contributed greatly to secure stable, honest, dedicated Government in the

British Parliamentary system.

The present Leader of the Opposition knows the role and

responsibility of Government as he participated in it for a great many years, so

he knows it from that point of view. He, now, as a result of the last couple of

years, knows it from the Opposition point of view. While, the adversarial system

gives rise to a sense of adversity and confrontation and conflict, usually, that

is part of the system. I would like to think, and I can speak certainly from my

part, that nothing that has ever been said has been taken personally. Certainly,

nothing that the Leader of the Opposition at the moment has ever said has been

taken personally by me. I know that he has his responsibility. I acknowledge

that. I want to pay particular tribute to him, Mr. Speaker, as I do to all who

serve the public. It is not all fun and games sitting in this House and serving

the public, either on the Government side, or on the Opposition side of the

House. Frequently, it costs individuals financially a great deal to provide that

public service. It often costs individuals a great deal in terms of family and

privacy and in terms of time that they have available for their wives and

children. And I know that the wife of the Leader of the Opposition and their

children have been very supportive of the Leader and have enabled him over the

years to make the kind of contribution that he did make to public life in this

Province.

And whether we have political differences or not, Mr.

Speaker, I stand today, with all sincerity, to acknowledge that the Leader of

the Opposition in his role in this House, as a backbench Member, originally, as

a Member of the Cabinet for a long period of time, and though he never served in

the House as Premier - he did serve as Premier but he did not sit in the House,

as such - he did, for a total of sixteen years, provide service to the public of

this Province. So, he gave of himself, and his family gave of themselves, for

the public service of the Province during a period of sixteen years.

Mr. Speaker, it is entirely fitting that, on an occasion such

as this, we set aside totally any partisan political differences or the

consequences of having to operate in an adversarial system by reason of having

Government and Opposition as our structure, that we put that aside and

acknowledge the contribution. And, on behalf of the people of this Province, for

whom I can dare to speak, I express to the Leader of the Opposition, to his

wife, Jacinta, and to their children, the appreciation of all of the people of

the Province for the contribution that the Leader himself has made and that his

family has helped him make, and has contributed to his making.

Mr. Speaker, I can only sincerely wish the Leader of the

Opposition well. On behalf of the Liberal Party and on behalf of all of the

people, generally, in the Province, I sincerely wish him well in whatever the

future holds for him, and I thank him again for his terrific contribution.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the hon. the

Leader of the Opposition would wish to speak in reply to the address of the

Premier. Before he does so, I want to add to the remarks of the Premier, in

which I wholeheartedly concur, my views and those of my party, with respect to

the service of the hon. Tom Rideout to this Province. It is, indeed, a long

record of service and a distinguished one. He is still well remembered as a very

able and capable Minister of Fisheries, for his long service, both as a Member

of the Cabinet and as a backbencher and, although, as the Premier indicated, not

in the House, as a former Premier of this Province.

I have had the occasion during the session of the House, on a

regular, daily basis, of seeing the hon. the Opposition Leader in the House, and

I must say, I have been very impressed by his ability as a debater, as a

speaker. He is most vigourous and most persistent, and I have to say, fearless,

in the presentation of his views during Question Period and during debate. I

must say, I have been very impressed by his abilities in that regard. His vigour

and attention to detail and persistence on issues will be missed.

I thank him, along with the Premier and other Members of the

House who have shown their appreciation for his service to the Province by

offering himself and serving in electoral politics, and, of course, the

contribution of his family in supporting him and making additional sacrifices,

as well, is also very much appreciated.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SIMMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have the pleasure and privilege of serving as

the House Leader to our present Leader, and I have been asked, on behalf of our

caucus, to make a few comments in the public Chamber, as well. We would

certainly like to take this opportunity to join with the Premier and the Member

representing the New Democratic Party, and, I am sure, every Member of the

House, and, as the Premier said, the people of the Province, without doubt, in

expressing our admiration for and our deep appreciation to our Leader.

Tom has had a career in public life, as the other speakers

have mentioned. I would describe his career in public life as exceptional, if

you give it some second thought. For sixteen years, through five general

elections, he has represented the people of Baie Verte - White Bay as their

Member of the House of Assembly. From 1984 to 1989, he served as a Minister of

the Crown, and in 1989 he became only the fourth Newfoundlander to have served

as Premier of this Province.

I think it is fair to say that he will long be remembered and

perhaps go down in history, at least remembered by the people in the fishing

communities around this Province all throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, as

one of the Province's most outstanding Ministers of Fisheries, of that there is

no doubt. During his tenure there were significant improvements and significant

positive developments in our Province's largest resource industry; for those

improvements, we owe a great deal of gratitude to Tom Rideout.

The other thing I want to elaborate on is his respect for the

Legislature itself, he has always held the Legislature and the people who have

been elected over the years to serve in the Legislature in the highest esteem;

he has fully and always respected the long-standing traditions of Parliament and

of this Legislature. I think it is fair to say in short, that he loves the

House; without a doubt he loves the repartee, he loves the back and forth as we

have all seen from time to time and indeed, he is often at his best in this

Chamber and will go down in history.

From time to time, if people check the records, although

Hansard probably would not have recorded it, it was a superb speech, you might

be able to tell by the number of 'hear, hears' that Hansard might record. He has

done a fabulous job, he was a tremendous debater without question.

There will of course, Mr. Speaker, be occasions for us in the

Progressive Conservative Party and the official Opposition, to have an

opportunity to further express our respect and our appreciation for his

dedication, but I would like to take the opportunity on behalf of our caucus and

our Party here in the public forum, in front of all Members of the House of

Assembly, to express to Tom, our appreciation for his leadership, his guidance,

his enthusiasm, his commitment to the Province and to the People of the

Province; his respect for this Legislature, his respect for our traditions and

his unfailing confidence in the future of this Province, and we wish him well in

whatever his future may be.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

People on the floor of the House in particular, may not

believe this, but it is one of the first times I have been stuck for words.

There might be many who have sat with me in the House over the years who might

have wished there were other more similar occasions when I was stuck for words.

But, Mr. Speaker, I do want to take the opportunity to thank the Premier for his

most gracious words. I would like him to know - I realize he had to leave to

catch a flight to go on public business - that personally I appreciate very much

what he said. I think it is on an occasion like this that only the people who

are the recipient of the words can understand that they do mean an awful lot to

you personally. I would like to thank the Member for St. John's East, the

representative of the NDP, for his kind remarks and my colleague, representing

our caucus here for his remarks.

It is very difficult to know what to say on an occasion like

this. The general public knows, I made it public in January, that as this

session of the House finishes I intend to step down as Leader of the Party and

Leader of the Opposition and sometime over the next few months as the MHA for

Baie Verte - White Bay. So, therefore, it is quite possible, unless there is

some emergency that occurs over the next few months between now and October,

that for now at least, this will be the last time that I will rise and take my

place in this House as a Member of the House.

Now, my friends and so on over the last few months have been

saying to me, "Are you really finished with politics?" I consistently say, "Yes,

for now." Because I am not sure. Over the last few months I have been reading a

lot of political biographies, Mr. Speaker, to try and ascertain what other

politicians, particularly former politicians around my age, have done with the

rest of their lives. The one that I keep coming back to consistently, picking up

almost every night before I fall asleep, is the political biography of Robert

Bourassa. The House will know, Mr. Speaker, that Mr. Bourassa was Premier of

Quebec. He got a tremendous drubbing in a general election and then disappeared.

He was gone for not too many years in the political life of a person, and he

came back stronger and more powerful and more dedicated than ever. So, who

knows, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: So, as I walk out of here, the one thing

that will be consistent under my arm will be the political revival of Robert

Bourassa.

But seriously, Mr. Speaker, it is my firm intention - as firm

as anything can be in human life and political life - to finish this phase of my

career. In so doing I would like to take the opportunity in public to thank

first of all the people of Baie Verte - White Bay who gave me this opportunity.

A politician cannot be a politician or have any political opportunity without a

constituency. My constituency has been very, very supportive of me over the last

sixteen years in the course of five elections. I do hope that in some small way

I have been able to improve the quality of life in all the communities on the

Baie Verte peninsula, and I do hope that as a result of their support and my

efforts that life in every community on that peninsula is better than it was

sixteen years ago. If that can be said of me then I am very, very pleased and

satisfied with my time in politics. That is why I came into it in the beginning,

no more fantastic reason than that, than just to try to do something for the

people whom I was born with, raised with, grew up with, and was the first one of

them that they ever elected to serve their interest in this Legislature.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank my family. Of

course, politics is a very difficult business and a lot of families do not

survive the business but I have been very fortunate with tremendous support from

Jacinta and the children as they grew older, and we all enjoyed it. I think it

is fair to say that Jacinta has enjoyed the political experience as much as I

have. And I think we grew closer together really as a result of politics. So we

have no regrets as far as that goes.

I want to thank the caucus, and I will have another

opportunity to do this in more detail later. But the support that I have

received from this caucus has been tremendous over the last couple of years

through difficult times. It is not easy losing an election and losing the

government and still being able to put on a pretty face in the public Chamber

day after day right away after those kinds of shocks. But that is democracy,

that is politics, and that is what it is all about. We all have to be big enough

to take it.

So to all those who have expressed their kind words today, I

thank you very much. I am looking forward to the winding down of the session

sometime today, and I do not expect that I will be back here on the floor of the

Legislature again. But I can tell you this: the many memories of sixteen years

in this Legislature will be certainly a part of me forever. I might just at some

time or other try to commit some of it to paper. I have been tempted to do it.

There has been a lot of colour develop in this Legislature, in many ways, in the

sixteen years that I have been here. I have been here with Mr. Smallwood, with

Mr. Crosbie, with Mr. Moores, and with Mr. Neary, and I have seen a lot of

colourful political figures come and go. So there are many, many chapters that,

perhaps, could be written about the memoirs of serving in the Newfoundland

Legislature for sixteen years. For example, the time that I spoke all day and

all night, when all the Opposition walked out and I was the only one left. They

told me I had to speak, because, if I did not, the Government would clear the

Order Paper and the House would close. So I did what I had to do, and spoke for

eighteen or twenty hours.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SIMMS: Like you would!

MR. RIDEOUT: As a matter of fact, talking about that

particular event, it was only two or three nights ago I was going through a

bunch of old books and I found this book on Trudeau that Ed Roberts, who was our

leader at the time, gave me, as a momento of the eighteen or twenty-hour speech

that I made in the House of Assembly. And, of course, there is the leaving of

the Liberal Party and crossing the floor. It is my understanding, through the

bit of research that I have done, that it is the first time, certainly since

Confederation - and I can't find any event before Confederation - that a member

has physically crossed the floor of the House. A lot of us have changed parties,

but we did it at press conferences, or we did it in some other way. But to

physically stand up in the House, make a speech and physically walk across the

floor of the House, I can't find any evidence where that has been done before. I

do not know if it was guts or foolishness, but it happened.

Finally, of course, achieving the highest political office in

the Province, even though it was only for a short time of forty-four days. I

have to say to the House, it was not the shortest. If anybody wants to go out

and look around the lobby, there is a former First Minister of Newfoundland who

served less than forty-four days. So I do not have that record.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SIMMS: So, they should stop bringing it up.

MR. RIDEOUT: So, the members opposite will not bring that

up anymore now, that is their history lesson for today. But it was a very

exhilarating forty-four days, not one that I longed to give up, but one that I

longed to have continued with a little longer.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: We have not, as yet, officially entered into

the business of the day. I do not know whether the President of Treasury Board

is up on a Ministerial Statement or on something else.

The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On a different matter. I would like to, first of all, assure

the Leader of the Opposition that our kind thoughts for him today do not extend

to his resurrection.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize the

work of one of the legislative reporters, who is leaving the media. Randy Perry

has covered the House of Assembly for Q-93, KIX FM, and is leaving us here, I

believe, tomorrow. He is going to work for himself in a new business venture in

St. John's.

On behalf of hon. members on this side of the House, and, if

I may, on behalf of all hon. members, I wish Randy every success in the future.

In the time I have known him, he has been a hardworking reporter, and he has

always proven himself to be fair and balanced in his reporting. As a testimony

to his versatility and talent, which goes beyond reporting, I will mention, in

particular, that Randy was a producer of the Straight Talk, open-line show,

hosted by Andy Wells. Also, we all know, and I guess an awful lot of people all

across Canada know, of his expertise in the field of curling. Randy is one of

the best curlers ever to appear for Newfoundland in a national championship.

His colleagues are losing a fine member from their ranks,

and, while it is with some measure of regret that we see him go, I am certain

that everybody will join me in wishing him the very best in the years to come,

and we hope that he enjoys himself and is very successful in his new job.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, just a few words in conjunction

with what the Government House Leader has said. I happen to know Randy Perry as

well. Randy and I both entered this Legislature at about the same time in 1979.

He was outside, mind you, looking in and I was inside looking up. Nevertheless,

he has been around for a long time and as the old history goes, he served four

Premiers, I believe, he told me.

What is interesting about Randy Perry, aside from the fact

that he has broken many a story and, I think, is highly respected by his peers,

is that I had a telephone call not too long ago from another journalist in this

Province, just a few days ago, who expressed a deep interest in ensuring that

the proper tribute was paid to one Randy Perry. I think that in itself says it

all with respect to the respect he has from his peers as a journalist.

So, I wish him well on behalf of the caucus and on behalf of

this Party in whatever it is he is going to do, whether it be bingo or curling

or whatever it might be we want to wish him the very best.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I wish to join in the remarks

and congratulations to Mr. Perry on his new business venture and wish to wish

him the best. I have known Randy for a number of years both before I entered

here obviously, and since then, and I find him as well to be a very dedicated

and conscientious reporter. As the House Leader has said, to be the producer on

the Straight Talk show with the host that he had is also an accomplishment at

Q-Radio.

I also want to join in the remarks and congratulate Randy on

his years of service in the press gallery and to wish him well in the future.

MR. SPEAKER: Before getting into the regular business of

the day, on behalf of hon. Members I would like to welcome to the gallery today

Mrs. Ruth Flowers, the Mayor of Makkovik, and Mr. John Anderson the Recreation

Director from Makkovik.

Also, I would like to welcome twenty-three Grade V students

from Holy Cross Elementary School, Eastport, in the District of Terra Nova,

accompanied by their teachers Dan Rideout and Mrs. Budden and their bus driver,

Gerald Ralph.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation.

MR. GILBERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There have been concerns raised recently by the independent

truckers in the Province, particularly those in the dump truck industry. One

major concern is contractors undercutting the rates established by the Board of

Commissioners of the Public Utilities and paying owner-operators of dump trucks

less than the legal rate.

Undercutting takes two forms: it could either be a direct

reduction in rates or an indirect reduction by means of over- charges on the

fuel supplies or rate reductions on the use of equipment not regulated by the

Board. Both are illegal under the present regulations to The Motor Carrier Act,

1990. Under the present legislation when an offence occurs both parties, the

contractor and the dump truck operator face the same fine, which is a minimum of

$100 and a maximum of $500.

Mr. Speaker, the new regulation will establish a stiffer

deterrent in the form of a separate offence for the guilty party. New

legislation will set the minimum fine at $1,000 and a maximum of $5,000 for the

contractors. The fine for the dump truck operators remain at a minimum of $100

and a maximum of $500.

Perhaps more significantly, Mr. Speaker, the court will be

empowered to order compensation to be paid by the guilty party to the truckers

in the amount by which the rates were undercut. Inspectors in the Motor

Registration Division are available to investigate any complaint directed to the

Board, to the registrar, or to myself. The change in regulation is a clear

indication of the Government's position on this issue and should serve notice of

our intention to have contractors or anyone else who hire dump truck operators

to pay the rate established by the board.

I would like to take this opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to assure

hon. Members that the concerns of the truckers are under active consideration by

myself and my hon. colleagues. Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, first of all let me say thank you

to the Minister for a copy of his statement. I would like to be able to stand

here today, and I say this in sincerity, I would like to be able to stand here

today and in keeping with the tone that has already been established by the

Premier and the Leader of the Opposition, I would like to be able to say to the

Minister, good job, great statement, but instead, Mr. Speaker, I have to say to

the Minister, what a scam, what a piece of fancy footwork, and what a piece of

garbage when you get right down to it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DOYLE: This is a piece of garbage, Mr. Speaker, it is

cosmetics. The Minister should be ashamed today with the independent truckers in

the galleries, to come in here today with a statement that insults the

intelligence of the independent truckers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DOYLE: This insults the intelligence of these people.

This is not what the independent truckers are looking for, and the Minister

knows it is not what they are looking for. What the Transport and Allied Workers

Union are looking for is amendments to the Labour Relations Act which would

allow the Transport and Allied Workers Union to become the official bargaining

agent for the truckers. When is he going to bring in that amendment?

MR. SIMMS: Hear, hear! Right on!

MS. VERGE: (Inaudible).

MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Works, Services

and Transportation comes in and says he is going to raise the minimum fine from

$100 up to $1,000, and the maximum from $500 up to $5,000. I say to him, big

deal. Big deal, Mr. Speaker. What is that going to do for the truckers? If I

thought for a moment by raising the minimum fines you were going to keep one

trucker in business, that you were going to keep one trucker from going

bankrupt, that you were going to keep one trucker on the road, then I would

support what the Minister is saying here today, and he is saying that he is

going to bring in legislation. Legislation - when? Six months down the road for

a little regulation, a minimum fine. Why couldn't the Minister come in here

today and say he is going to bring in legislation, amendments to the Labour

Relations Act to make the Transport and Allied Workers Union the official

bargaining agent? This is what they are looking for.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DOYLE: They are not looking for a minimum fine to be

raised. What is the Minister trying to do here today?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. Member's time is up.

MR. DOYLE: This is cosmetics and it is a scam, and he

should be ashamed of himself.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask leave of the

House to respond to the Minister.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave, the hon. the Member for St. John's

East.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that the

Minister has taken some action to increase the penalties for violations of the

provincial laws, but as the Member for Harbour Main has said, this is not what

the truckers of Newfoundland are looking for. This is not going to have the

effects that the truckers need, and the Minister of Health says he knows that.

He knows that. Well, they all know that and we all know that. So for the past

six or seven months when this request has been before the Government they have

known that what they were going to do today is not what the truckers want and it

is not going to have the effect that they want. Why have they waited until now

to try and figure out what the problem was? It is a very specific thing that is

required, and it is required to recognize for truckers of this Province just as

it has been recognized for fishermen, just as it has been recognized for

longshoremen under the Federal Canada Labour Code that there needs to be some

kind of legislation to look after common employers, a geographical certification

for truckers in this Province. It is a very specific and simple amendment to the

Labour Relations Act that is required. The Government has been thinking about it

for six months, and now they want to think about it perhaps for another six,

perhaps forever. What they brought in today is a measure which is designed to

make it look as if they are doing something when the truckers of this Province

are still going to have to spend this whole summer and this fall, and maybe

forever, if this Government stays in power, trying to fight to keep themselves

in business and trying to organize and bargain collectively.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

MR. R. AYLWARD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I have a question for the Premier but, knowing he is away on

Government business today, I will refer my question to the Minister of Social

Services, or the President of Treasury Board, or the Government House Leader or

whatever he wants to be called today.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister will be well aware that the Public

Service Commission Report which led to the firing of the Member for Port de

Grave as Minister of Social Services, also stated that Mr. Beaton Tulk,

Assistant Deputy Minister of Social Service, committed an unacceptable omission,

when he failed to inform the Deputy Minister of allegations that were made known

to him in December, 1990, concerning irregularities in a competition for a

position with the Department.

Does the Minister agree that the Assistant Deputy Minister,

Mr. Beaton Tulk, committed an unacceptable omission by not reporting to his

Deputy Minister?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: As I indicated to the hon. gentleman,

yesterday, I believe, the judicial inquiry will look into all these matters and

report back, and, until that time, I am not going to comment.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member can try to

cover up all he likes, but I will continue to ask questions.

The Minister will confirm that the Deputy Minister is the

administrative head of all the departments, and that Mr. Beaton Tulk, as an ADM,

will be immediately under the Deputy Minister, who would be his superior. Mr.

Tulk should have known that it was the Deputy Minister's responsibility to deal

with departmental employees, not the Minister.

Why did Mr. Tulk withhold the information from the Deputy

Minister and report directly to the Minister, who has no direct administrative

responsibility for this matter?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: I will respond to part of that, Mr. Speaker,

because I do not see that it has a bearing. On the last question, the reason was

simply that the Deputy Minister was not in town that day.

I will say to the hon. member, that this is the Government

that brings things out in the open, not covers them up; that may be what was

done in the past, but it is not being done with this Government.

I also remind him, that the Leader of the Opposition, and

presumably, all members opposite, agreed with the judicial inquiry that will be

appointed, and I say to him that I am not going to fall into the trap of

conducting a judicial inquiry in this House when there is a proper process in

place for it. The Leader of the Opposition already indicated that this was the

proper course to follow. I agree with him, it is the proper course to follow,

and I am not going to follow the member's foolishness.

MR. R. AYLWARD: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

Mr. Speaker, I agree, too, that it is the proper course to

follow, but there are other courses to follow, in the meantime. It is even more

unacceptable, if the Deputy Minister were not available at the time, because the

responsibility then falls on the Assistant Deputy Minister to report what he

heard to the Public Service Commission.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, does the Minister agree that

Mr. Tulk's unacceptable omissions would go well beyond unacceptable practices,

by not reporting to the Deputy Minister, but the fact that it was his direct

responsibility for not reporting this to the Public Service Commission, his

direct responsibility, not the responsibility of the man who suffered the loss

of his job because of it?

MR. SIMMS: Right on!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My answer is essentially the same, but I would like to remind

the hon. Member and this House, that, that was the Minister who sat on Sprung

for a couple of years earlier and would say nothing about it and hid reports.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, he can try to cover it up

and deflect it all he likes, I sat through Sprung and I defended Sprung when I

had to.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

MR. R. AYLWARD: But I would not have fired a person who

was not responsible for what happened, I would be looking at the people who were

responsible for it. Actually, when I was reporting Sprung, my Premier stuck with

me, he did not turn his back on me like your Premier just did.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Tulk's unacceptable omissions, or as the

Premier stated of the former Minister of Social Services, his improper actions

on the matter, are extremely serious because he had handled the matter properly

- I cannot read my own writing, Mr. Speaker, that is the unfortunate part of it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: Read it! Read it!

MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I will not read it!

Mr. Speaker, it was through the improper actions of the

Assistant Deputy Minister of Social Services, when the former Minister had

another enquiry on him, that he was suspended while we were waiting for the

outcome. Will the Minister of Social Services now suspend the Assistant Deputy

Minister until the outcome of this enquiry?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: To the last question the member asked, Mr.

Speaker, the answer is no. To the other questions he asked and alluded to, the

answer is the same as my previous answer, there will be a judicial enquiry

looking into these matters and I will not comment on it any further. And I would

suggest to the hon. member that he get whoever wrote the questions for him in

here to do some

interpretation for him.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fogo.

MR. WINSOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the

same Minister, the Minister responsible for Social Services. There is still some

controversy in this Province about the Social Assistance Appeals Board and the

Minister did nothing, yesterday, to allay our concerns. Mr. Speaker, tomorrow,

at 10:00 a.m., I will represent a constituent of mine before the Social

Assistance Appeal Board.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. POWER: Exactly, case lost. There is the answer!

MR. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, tomorrow, at 10:00 a.m., I have

to represent a constituent in an appeal against a decision of the Department of

Social Services. Let me ask the Minister this question: Is he confident, and can

he assure my constituent and me, that the appeal will be heard and decided on

its merits only, and the events of the past month will not influence the

decision of that Social Assistance Appeal Board?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: Absolutely, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fogo.

MR. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, I would like to be as confident

as the Minister of Social Services. The sworn evidence presented to the Public

Service Commission in their investigation into irregularities involving the

Chairman of that Appeal Board provides substantial grounds for my concern. Has

the Minister dismissed the findings of the Public Service Commission and does he

think they are a fabrication on the part of the PSC?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

AN HON. MEMBER: Go get somebody else to write your

questions for you.

MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker, we have not dismissed anything

and, in a short time, I am assuming there will be a new Minister of Social

Services in place who will deal with the problems.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker, we are not ignoring anything. We

are taking this matter very seriously and I am assuming that shortly a new

Minister will be in charge of the portfolio and will, at that point in time,

deal with the situation as it exists.

MR. WINSOR: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fogo.

MR. WINSOR: If the Minister is not prepared to remove the

present Chairman from the Board pending the judicial enquiry, as he indicated

yesterday, will he, at least, ask the present Chairman to remove himself from

the hearings and await the decision of the judicial enquiry? When that

investigation is complete, then, if the Minister wants to re-instate him, let

him be; but, for the time being, until that judicial enquiry is complete, will

the Minister, at least, remove this individual as Chairman of the Board?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: No, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Mary's - The

Capes.

MR. HEARN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

My question was to the Premier, but in light of the fact that

he had to leave to go to an important meeting, I will ask the Minister of

Fisheries: About five or six weeks ago, a delegation from Trepassey, including

the town council, met with the Premier and, I understand, the Minister,

supporting a request for a second processing licence for Trepassey. Has the

Minister responded to the delegation, or does he intend to? If so, would he

indicate what that response might be?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries.

MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, I have responded to the

delegation. It might not have been the kind of response they want, nevertheless,

it has been conveyed to them. At the meeting - and the hon. gentleman, I think,

attended the same meeting I am referring to - we discussed the problem. First of

all, I explained to the delegation that under existing regulations I do not have

the authority to issue a new groundfish processing licence. I do not have that

authority - there is a freeze on, as the hon. member knows - but I do have the

authority, under certain well-defined circumstances, to transfer a licence from

one plant to another. I explained that to the committee, and I suggested to

them, that being the case, then they should maybe make an application to

transfer the licence from the FPI plant in Trepassey, that is about to close, to

the plant they are hoping to open. That is where it stands now. In fact, I am

having a letter drafted now for my signature to be forwarded to the Mayor of

Trepassey and others indicating just that to them. I repeat, Mr. Speaker, that

all of the cajoling or demonstrations cannot help matters. I do not have the

authority to issue a new licence but I would be certainly willing to entertain

from the committee, an application to transfer the licence that is currently in

Trepassey from the plant that is now closing to the plant they want to open.

That is where it stands to date.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Mary's - The

Capes.

MR. HEARN: Just to make sure the Minister understands

where I am coming from, I attended the meeting the Minister is referring to when

we had the delegation in, but following that, apparently not being satisfied

with the Minister's answer, another delegation met directly with the Premier - I

am not sure whether the Minister was there - and the Premier apparently promised

to get back to them with an answer, but has not, to this date. I presume the

Minister is now talking about responding to that meeting, also?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries.

MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, I apologize if I did not get the

hon. member's question correctly. Yes, we did. A delegation from Trepassey did

meet with the Premier and myself and others, subsequent to the meeting the hon.

member attended, and the Premier did undertake to reply. In fact, I was informed

no later than this morning, that reply is now being drafted; I think it is

waiting for the Premier's signature, and it will be in the mail to the people of

Trepassey within a matter of hours.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Mary's - The

Capes, on a supplementary.

MR. HEARN: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is to the

Minister of Development. The building concerned with the application for the

second licence, is one that was owned by Newfoundland Development Corporation,

and now by, I presume, Enterprise Newfoundland. I wonder will the Minister tell

us the conditions surrounding the lease of that building, lease payments, the

amount paid to date, and whether or not there are other conditions attached to

the lease?

AN HON. MEMBER: He did not hear the question.

MR. HEARN: I am sorry! The building in Trepassey,

concerned with the application for a second processing license, is one that was

owned by the Newfoundland Development Corporation and now, I presume, Enterprise

the lease, the lease payments to date, and what other conditions might be

attached to this peculiar lease?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Development.

MR. FUREY: I do not readily have that information

available to me. NLDC, that the hon. member talks about, which is the

predecessor of Enterprise Newfoundland and Labrador, that corporation deals with

hundreds of companies, on a weekly basis, throughout the Province. I would have

to take that under advisement, to get those specific questions answered. You

want the lease, the amount of payments, and all those kinds of things. I will

have a look at Hansard tomorrow, get the specific questions, and bring the

answers back to the House.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Mary's - the

Capes, a final supplementary.

MR. HEARN: I wonder if the Minister, in light of the fact

that this building is sitting there in Trepassey, and in light of the fact that

they are searching for jobs in the area, would undertake to get that information

to us as soon as possible, because there is a possibility that a number of jobs

could be created if the conditions around this building are clarified?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Development.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I will undertake to take a

personal look at this. We are very sensitive to what is happening at Trepassey,

to the great loss of jobs there. I know that the Economic Recovery Commission,

and Enterprise Newfoundland, have been looking to try to draw new investment

into that area. I think Glamox Ltd. was one of the smaller ones, that created

ten or twelve jobs, and we are looking at creating small companies and trying to

lure them into this area. We are very sensitive to what is happening, because of

the downturn in the fishery and, particularly, that plant, and the number of

people who have been displaced.

I would take that, again, under advisement, and I will

undertake to look at it personally, to see what has been done to date,

particularly with that facility. I think you are referring to a story this

morning, or yesterday, that they were looking to open it on a smaller scale, if

the quotas were correct and that kind of thing. So, I will take that under

advisement and look into it for you, personally.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SIMMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, on Monday past, the Minister of

Health accused the Opposition of having its head in the sand - those were his

words, I believe - when we claimed that the Minister's policies and the

Government's policies are going to drive doctors out of this Province. In fact,

he scoffed at that idea and suggested that there was no evidence to support it.

Well now we have a letter, signed by a Doctor Turner, an Eye,

Ear and Nose Specialist in Grand Falls - Windsor, and co-signed by ten other

specialists in the Grand Falls - Windsor - Gander area. I want to quote, just

briefly, from his letter: "Despite Mr. Decker's claims to the contrary, many

doctors, particularly specialists, are now actively looking at jobs elsewhere."

Is this not evidence enough for the Minister to, at least have a further

investigation into the Government's policies. When is he going to get off the

pot and take some action to prevent this hemorrhage of doctors from the

Province. That is what is happening.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, most paragraphs have a key

sentence in them, and the key sentence in this letter is, that doctors are now

actively looking. Now, Mr. Speaker, the questions that were put to me last week

were: How many doctors have left the Province because of the rearrangement we

have made to health care? I said at that time, and I say today, that not a

single doctor has left the Province, to date. Now, Mr. Speaker, this letter

backs up exactly what I am saying. There might be 900 doctors who are actively

looking, but the fact of the matter is, that to date not a single doctor has

left as a result of the reorganization that we made in health care.

Now, there might be 10,000 actively looking to leave Canada,

or there might be 100,000 actively looking to leave Europe, but the question

was: How many have actually left? And these two statements are totally

different. I do not know how many are actively looking. But I know how many have

actually left. Not a single one.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SIMMS: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I mean, is it any

wonder that we are in such trouble in this Province when the Minister himself

now is taking his lead presumably from the Premier? Instead of giving direct and

honest answers, he tries to fool the people.

Now is the Minister aware also that Doctor Turner says in his

letter that: Mr. Decker seems more intent on flexing political muscle and making

doctors appear the greedy villains? Is he aware of that particular quote? Does

he agree with Doctor Turner on behalf of the other ten specialists? Does he

agree with those quotes? And why does he not tell the truth? The fact of the

matter is that many doctors in this Province probably take home a lot less than

the Minister does.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, the hon. Opposition House Leader

talks about honest answers. I would like to see some honest questions in this

House. This is a part of a political charade. The fact of the matter is, I said

last week that hon. Members opposite should get their heads out of the sand.

Obviously they have not taken my advice. I have an

article here which comes out

of The Evening Telegram: flood of Canadian doctors turn out for US job fair. An

article here from The Globe and Mail: doctors in Quebec planning mass rallies.

The fact of the matter is we have a Tory Government in Ottawa

which is determined to somehow ensure that Medicare disappears from this nation.

And this is where the hon. Member should be looking. To his colleagues, his

cousins, his friends, his cohorts in Ottawa, who are trying to disrupt this

Medicare system.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I could care less what doctors in

Quebec or Ottawa are doing. What we are concerned with is, what are doctors in

Newfoundland doing? And the fact of the matter is, they are thinking very

seriously about leaving this Province unless the Minister changes his policies.

Now that is the point.

Now the other comment that is fairly interesting from Doctor

Turner is that: the Minister's confrontational gun-slinging posture is becoming

as much a concern as the cutbacks in health care. Does the Minister agree with

that? And does he also not acknowledge that his arrogance, deception and

trickery, which we saw more evidence of here today, is more responsible now than

anything in turning the people in the health care sector against this Government

and this Minister?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is we

cannot ignore what is happening in Quebec or Ontario as much as the hon. Member

would like for us to do that. Because the issue here is bigger than

Newfoundland. It is a Canadian problem which is brought on by an unlistening,

uncaring Tory Government in Ottawa. Now there is where the basic problem lies.

Now the accusation by Doctor Turner about my confrontational

gun-slinging policies. I do not accept that at all. I am proud to say that in

the history of this Province there has not been a more listening, open

Government, and certainly there has not been a more open, caring and listening

Minister than we have at this time.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East

Extern.

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister

of Municipal and Provincial Affairs and I will wait a second until he sits down.

Several weeks ago the Minister announced layoffs of six firefighters with the

St. John's Fire Department. Shortly after, the Minister as part of his municipal

amalgamation plan announced that the Fire Department would be transferred to the

City of St. John's and its responsibilities would be extended to include the

station in Mount Pearl which has not yet been staffed.

Will the Minister cancel the layoffs until a full review of

the fire protection service and staffing is undertaken by the City of St.

John's, the City of Mount Pearl, and other towns in the region served by the

Fire Department?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs.

MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, Government's intent, quite

obviously, by the resolution that was passed by the House last Friday is to

extend the jurisdiction of the St. John's Fire Department to include the

unmanned station in Mount Pearl and the Goulds. That resolution has passed the

House, that is still the Government's intent. We will proceed by way of a

transition process over the next five or six months to facilitate that change.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East

Extern.

MR. PARSONS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The fire

fighters who were laid off comprised of a large percentage of a specially

licensed high risk rescue team in the St. John's Fire Department. Will the

Minister delay action on this decision pending a review of the effects of those

layoffs on the department's ability to provide rescue services on the northeast

Avalon?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs.

MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, the effect on the layoffs and

the men involved in the St. John's Fire Department is, of course, tied into the

Government's decision to expand the St. John's Fire Department to the other

jurisdictions I mentioned. So we will continue with the transition process and

the dialogue that has to take place with the Towns of the Goulds and Mount

Pearl, and the fire fighters who had been affected by the current Budget process

in the layoffs will be involved and be part of that decision making process. I

would hope as quickly as possible that those fire fighters will be back on the

job.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East

Extern.

MR. PARSONS: My final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. One of

the fire fighters laid off is John Blackwood. He will be honoured for his

successful rescue efforts on a fellow fire fighter in a boarding house fire last

year. He will be presented with the medal of bravery and the Duke of Edinburgh

Award by Governor General Raymond Hnatyshyn for his heroism. Is taking away his

job the best the Province can offer this hero? Is this bitter gratitude all his

employer has to offer? By the way, Mr. Minister, those layoffs will come into

effect on June 14.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs.

MR. GULLAGE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am fully aware of the

impact on the fire fighters affected, the fact that they were, of course, at the

end of the seniority list and irrespective of their particular contribution in

the case mentioned, of course, I am fully aware of the gentleman's contribution

to the fire department, and certainly the fact that he is about to be honoured

with the Duke of Edinburgh Award. But, Mr. Speaker, that is aside from the point

that the layoffs were effected because of the budgetary process, and I can only

repeat myself by saying that as quickly as possible we will evolve into the

situation where the St. John's Fire Department will be expanded into the other

jurisdictions, and I would hope that the fire fighters affected will be back on

the job as quickly as we can affect that change.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. WARREN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My question

is also to the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. Recently there has

been correspondence between the Premier and the Band Council in Davis Inlet with

respect to relocation. I understand discussions have been held. Would the

Minister bring up to date as his department will be involved - has his

department made any decision whether Davis Inlet will be relocated approximately

seven miles north of its present location?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs.

MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, I would have to check into the

details of the gentleman's question and report back to the House. But I do not

think that the decisions - native affairs, of course, is under the Premier's

jurisdiction - I do not believe that any decision has been finalized, but I will

check into the matter, and either the Premier or myself will report to the

House.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. WARREN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. What I also

suggest to the Minister is that a figure between $40 million and $55 million has

been tossed around as the cost of relocating this particular community. Would

the Minister not agree that presently there is construction about ready to begin

on the new nursing clinic for the Town of Davis Inlet? So would the Minister

come to a decision as soon as possible so that the nursing clinic can be

constructed in that community.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs.

MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, native agreements, of course,

are part of the mandate of my department as far as municipal infrastructure is

concerned, water, sewer and roads and other municipal infrastructure, so, if and

when agreements are finalized regarding the location that he mentions and if

they do affect my department we certainly will expedite the work and the

tendering and get on with it as quickly as we possibly can. But I would have to

check on the details and the timing and whether a decision has been made, and I

said I would do that earlier.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. WARREN: My final supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

Would the Minister confirm that his department with other

government departments are considering resettling the people from Paradise River

to other towns on the Labrador Coast?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs.

MR. GULLAGE: No, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East on a

quick question.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is to the Minister of Health and has to do with

the decision of the Grenfell Regional Health Services to establish a new clinic

in Northwest River.

I have a grave concern, Mr. Speaker, about the decision that

was made and I wonder if the Minister was consulted on that decision? I wonder

does he share my concerns that have been raised by the Innu of Sheshatshit that

perhaps racial prejudice has had some role to play in the decision? I find that

to be a very serious allegation, Mr. Speaker, and I wonder if the Minister of

Health can tell us what steps he has taken to look into this matter and to

follow up on these allegations, which I am sure are not made without careful

consideration by the Innu?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, there is no new clinic going in

Northwest River. There has been a clinic there I suppose since 1892 when Dr.

Grenfell was the doctor serving Northwest River and the Labrador Coast. There

was some thought given by the Grenfell Board to moving the clinic from Northwest

River over to Sheshatshit and that had more to do with the ability of the

Grenfell Board to find a space. The space which they were occupying in Northwest

River was too expensive to heat and they were going to move to new premises. The

town council was going to rent them space but I do not think the rent was right,

but I think they have since dealt with that.

Of course, Mr. Speaker, I am concerned whenever the term of

discrimination is mentioned. But I have no reason to believe there was any

racial discrimination practiced there. I would be more than surprised if I were

to find out with certainty that there was discrimination involved. I do not

share that belief.

MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.

The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: I would ask leave of the House to revert back

to Statements by Ministers. There were two statements distributed, the Minister

was absent and did not have a chance to make his statement, so I ask leave of

the House to revert back to Statements by Ministers?

MR. SPEAKER: Do we have leave to revert back to

Statements by Ministers?

The hon. the Member for Burin - Placentia West.

MR. TOBIN: I am responding to the one on the Newfoundland

and Labrador Housing Corporation. Someone else will be responding to the one on

native affairs. Regarding the one I have, Mr. Speaker, I am prepared to give

leave conditionally, and that is if the Minister is prepared to tell us the date

that he will be announcing the Capital Works.

MR. SPEAKER: There is no leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, there is leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave for which?

AN HON. MEMBER: Native Affairs.

MR. SPEAKER: Native Affairs.

The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleagues on this

side of the House. I am not so thankful to the Opposition, especially

considering the fact I was delayed because of attendance at a CNIB luncheon.

AN HON. MEMBER: I was also a part of that.

MR. GULLAGE: You were not a part of -

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.

MR. GULLAGE: I did not see you at the head table, though.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Minister has permission to present a Ministerial

Statement, and he should present the Ministerial Statement.

MR. GULLAGE: Do you mind if I speak? Do I have your

permission?

MR. SIMMS: You have leave. Do you want to lose it?

MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, as Minister responsible for

Housing, I am pleased to announce that twenty-three homes will be constructed on

the northern coast of Labrador to help in addressing the housing needs of native

and non-native families.

Funding for this housing activity, Mr. Speaker, will be

provided under the 1991 Federal/Provincial Rural and Native Housing Programme.

The aim of the Programme is to provide suitable and affordable housing for

families and individuals living in remote communities.

Capital funding for these housing projects will amount to

approximately $2 million, and will be cost-shared by the Newfoundland and

Labrador Housing Corporation, along with its Federal partner, CMHC. In addition

to the capital costs associated with these projects, the Federal and Provincial

Housing Agencies will cost share an annual subsidy to cover maintenance and

other operating costs. This operating subsidy will ensure that rental rates

remain affordable for the residents.

Mr. Speaker, the following is a breakdown of activity by

community:

Sheshatshit: NLHC is, once again, negotiating an agreement

with the Sheshatshit Innu Band Council for the construction of five homes for

native families. Under the terms of the agreement, the homes will be constructed

by native workers living in Sheshatshit and, once completed, will be rented by

NLHC to low-income native families. The purpose of the agreement is to provide

native workers with an opportunity to develop home-building skills, while at the

same time, supplying functional and affordable housing for their community. To

date funding has been provided for the construction of twenty homes in

Sheshatshit through similar agreements. Under this arrangement, the band council

also provides assistance to NLHC in selecting needy households as tenants.

Cartwright: NLHC is gearing up to call for tenders for the

construction of an eight-unit housing project for single-parent families in

Cartwright.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.

MR. GULLAGE: The Housing Corporation will retain

ownership of the Complex, while the Eagle River Community Housing Inc., through

a management agreement with NLHC, will administer the project and look after

day-to-day operations. This will be the second housing project since 1989 that

the Eagle River Community Housing Inc. has sponsored in Cartwright.

Rigolet: Negotiations are underway between NLHC and the

Torngat Regional Housing Association for the construction of two homes in

Rigolet. Under this arrangement the Torngat Regional Housing Association will

construct the houses for NLHC, thereby creating employment opportunities for

local native workers. Once completed, NLHC will rent the homes to native

families, with rental rates based on total household income.

NAIN: NLHC is preparing to call for tenders for the

construction of eight houses in Nain to increase the supply of much needed

affordable housing accommodations for low-income native families.

Mr. Speaker, Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation

has placed a greater emphasis on native housing in recent years. I believe that

the co-operative spirit in which this housing activity is being funded,

constructed and managed illustrates that commitment, and that through

co-operation by the various parties the long-term housing needs of families in

Labrador will be more appropriately addressed.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would also like to note that NLHC,

in conjunction with the Federal Housing Agency, is finalizing details of the

1991 Urban Native Non-Profit Housing Program. Under this program assistance is

provided to native organizations to develop and administer housing projects for

native families living in larger urban centres. Details of this funding will be

announced within the coming weeks.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. WARREN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to

say to the Minister, it is only just a couple of days ago that I was in Hopedale

to address the Housing Conference and - well, this is old news. Because

everybody knew about it. This was announced in Hopedale a couple of days ago, I

say to the Minister.

I notice on the Minister's statement also the Minister says:

"constructed on the northern coast of Labrador." I am sure my colleague for

Eagle River knows that Cartwright is in southern Labrador. And I say to the hon.

Minister I should send him a map of Labrador to let him know where the different

communities are located.

I wanted to say on behalf of the people of Rigolet and Nain,

they are quite pleased that again both Governments, the Federal and Provincial

Governments, have come through for construction of those houses. However, what

about the people in Makkovik, Hopedale and Postville? There is housing needed in

those three communities as well. And I say to the Minister, twenty-three houses,

twenty-five houses, we need about 125 to meet the demands of the people on the

Labrador coast. I say again to the Minister that I would suggest that if he is

going to get money from the Federal Government to construct family homes for low

income families, then surely to goodness, put it in the communities that have

the greatest need, such as Hopedale, Postville, Makkovik, Rigolet, Nain,

Cartwright - all along the Labrador coast.

And again I would like to reiterate to the Minister that it

is fine and dandy for him to announce these things but most of the money is

coming from the Federal Government.

MR. TOBIN: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin - Placentia

West on a point of order.

MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I just want to clarify the matter

with the Minister of Municipal Affairs. We are not asking for the capital works

list. All we are asking for is the date that he is going to announce it. So we

on this side are prepared to give leave to the Minister for this statement if he

will give us the date that he will be making the announcement of the capital

works.

MR. SPEAKER: No point of order.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees.

There are a lot of Members standing from both sides and I do

not know which one I am supposed to recognize! The Chair would appreciate it if

Members please did not stand while I was calling items. It makes it a bit

confusing.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.

MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on

tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Labour

Relations Act, 1977, No. 2," and that will be Bill No. 40.

MR. SPEAKER: The Minister of Finance.

DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on

tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole on

Supply to consider certain resolutions for the granting of further supplementary

supply to Her Majesty.

Answers to Questions

For which Notice has been Given

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

DR. GIBBONS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the

response to a question left on the order paper for me by the hon. Member for

Green Bay.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.

MR. R. AYLWARD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have

a petition today on behalf of some fifty-three truckers in this Province. And I

will read the prayer of the petition without my glasses again: we the

undersigned of this petition hereby ask the Provincial Government to take

immediate action to have the dump truck owner/operators of this Province

certified under the Labour Relations Act of Newfoundland and Labrador.

This petition is a continuation of the more than 2,000 names

that were submitted here yesterday on behalf of the owner/operators of this

Province who are asking some very reasonable requests of the Government or the

Minister of Labour, who some time ago assured them or at least gave them some

comfort that she would be preparing amendments to the Labour Relations Act in

order that they could become certified in this Province.

Now I understand and I think it is commendable of the

Minister to have her staff and a representative of the Teamsters' Union sit down

and draft the appropriate amendments to the Act. The Minister on that occasion

some time ago acted properly and tried to ensure that the proper changes to the

Labour Relations Act would come in by consulting with the representatives from

the truckers of this Province. But what happened when the Minister put that to

the Cabinet was that the Cabinet looked at it and the Premier obviously could

not agree with that, because the people that support him, the bigger companies

that support this Premier in this Province, had gotten to him. They had a

meeting with the Minister of Justice, I understand, and the Premier and the

Minister of Transportation and they said they would not put up with this

amendment. And that is why the truckers of this Province are in the situation

they are in today.

The amendments are prepared. It can be done if Government

wants to do it. We will see some time later today that an amendment to the

Labour Relations Act that the Government needs in a hurry was done in a hurry

and it was done today. And we will see and we know that if the Government of

this Province wanted to bring in those Labour Relations amendments today they

could bring it in today, and it probably would be a good time to bring it in

because Members know that this House is closing and we could pass it with very

little debate and ensure that the legislation will be approved. Now the

Government has the Member for Harbour Main's commitment that this side of the

House would pass it without much debate as long as the legislation was that

which was prepared by a representative from the truckers in this Province along

with the Department of Labour.

Most of the names on this part of the petition I see are from

Bell Island, and I do not know if they did ask their Member to present it but he

would not present it anyway like he did not present it for St. Phillips, would

not present one for St. Phillips the other day.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker -

MR. TOBIN: State your position, now, state your position

when you are up!

MR. R. AYLWARD: Are you for the truckers or against it?

Are you for these people or against them?

MR. TOBIN: State your position now while you are up!

MR. WALSH: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Mount Scio - Bell Island on a point

of order.

MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the hon. Member to

withdraw his statement. I have at no time had a petition in my hands that I have

not presented. He continually tries to allude to the fact that I had petitions

that I am not presenting. If that Member cared as much about his district as I

do about mine he would be in much better shape than he is today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

MR. R. AYLWARD: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride to the

point of order.

MR. R. AYLWARD: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I did not say anything

about the Member for Mount Scio - Bell Island. All I suggested is that I have a

petition from people from Bell Island and I do not know if they asked him to

present it or not. But I assumed he would not present it, the same as the

petition he had from St. Phillips last week that he did not present in this

House. There is no point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

There is no point of order. The hon. Member took advantage of

an opportunity to clarify his position. I would ask the hon. Member to continue.

Very briefly.

MR. R. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I note that

the Member who represents Bell Island did not get up in this House of Assembly

and say that he would support the truckers of Bell Island. And try to get the

Minister of Labour and the Government House Leader to bring in the legislation

today in this House so that they can be certified. That is a very reasonable

request. We would do it for any other group in this Province which came in. A

group of forestry workers would do it, a group of fish plant workers came in

here, they would automatically sign up their cards and right off the bat they

would be certified.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

The hon. Member's time is up.

The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition so

ably presented by my colleague, the Member for Kilbride, today, with respect to

the truckers and what they are looking for, their very reasonable request that

they are looking for. So I would hope that the Government before this day is

over will at least make some statement of intent as to what they intend to do to

help the truckers out of this dilemma that they find themselves in. Because as

we said yesterday truckers in the Province are in a very frustrated state right

now. A lot of the truckers are going bankrupt, a lot of them have mortgaged

their homes. They are all independent businessmen, when you get right down to

it. You cannot go out and pick up a truck today for $100. If you are going to

get involved in the dump truck business, in the trucking business, even if you

have one truck it is going to cost a minimum of $100,000 to get involved in that

industry.

We saw the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation

today come in to the House with a statement, saying essentially that he was

going to bring in legislation that would raise the minimum fine from $100 up to

the Public Utilities Board Act. Well, that is not what the truckers are looking

for. They are looking for amendments to the Labour Relations Act that would

allow the Transport and Allied Workers Union to become the official bargaining

agent for the independent truckers Province-wide.

That is no different than what the fishermen have. This is

what the fishermen have under the Fishing Industry Collective Bargaining Act.

The current legislation that we have in place right now does not allow the

truckers to certify companies. The current legislation that we have, they can go

in, try to organize the company, make application to the Labour Relations Board

to have a company organized and what will happen, by the time they have their

application dealt with by the Labour Relations Board the job is finished. So

because of the short term nature of the work that the trucking industry is

involved in it makes it very difficult indeed for these people to get companies

certified.

So it is a reasonable request that they are making. And I

certainly hope that the Government House Leader will be a little bit reasonable

and make a commitment to the independent truckers today that not only will the

legislation come governing the minimum and maximum fines that are going to be

imposed some time down the road but that they will also bring in amendments to

the Labour Relations Act to allow the truckers in the Province the same

privileges as other workers have. And they are not asking for anything different

than other people in the Province have. They are independent businessmen and

they have the right to be unionized. They should have the right to bargain

collectively with any employer in this Province. So it is no great deal what

they are looking for.

And we found out today, the Premier came in to the House and

he said that it is going to be necessary to bring in an amendment today to the

Labour Relations Act because of a court ruling, a Supreme Court ruling

somewhere, that we need to bring in an amendment to the Act to conform to their

legislation. That has been done at a moment's notice. We have amendments that

have already been prepared by the Department of Employment and Labour Relations

along with the truckers' legal counsel, Mr. Randy Earle. These amendments are

ready to go. So it is only a matter of bringing these amendments in today if the

Government had that commitment. Bring the amendments in today along with the

other amendment that has to be introduced and I can assure the Government House

Leader that these amendments would receive very speedy passage.

Because independent truckers are going bankrupt. A lot of

these people - and yesterday while we were talking to the independent truckers

out in the lobby of Confederation Building, we had a wrecking firm or a wrecker

coming along taking a truck and foreclosing on it right there, in the parking

lot. And one more independent trucker yesterday was informed that his house,

which had been mortgaged against his truck, they were foreclosing on him. And

taking that away from him. So, Mr. Speaker, it is only reasonable that we do

this for the independent truckers.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. Member's time is up.

The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to take a

couple of minutes to react to the Member for Harbour Main and some of the

comments he made. First of all, let me say that I was appalled by his re-action

to the statement that was made by the Minister of Works, Services and

Transportation, I was totally, absolutely appalled.

He pretended as if this was our proposal to be the total

answer to the problem; how silly, how silly. He got on with a lot of histrionics

and shouted and screamed and everything else and tried to put on a show.

Mr. Speaker, the statement today was the result of some

meetings that the Minister had with representatives of the independent truckers

and one of the things that was mentioned was this, so that one thing has now

been taken care of; there were many other things, that legislation does not come

under the purview of the Minister; that was one of the things that was mentioned

and that one thing has been taken care of.

The other problems are currently being considered and this

was the beginning, this was one problem that was taken care of, the proper

response for the Member for Harbour Main would have been to say: look, this is

one part of the problem which has been taken care of, now, Government get on and

consider the rest of the problem, that would have been the proper response,

instead of shouting and the screaming and the histrionics of the Member

Opposite, who knows, that accomplishes nothing except put on a political show

and I would remind the Member Opposite, that belly dumps did not come into

existence this year.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Opposition House Leader on a point of order.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker -

MR. DOYLE: You do not understand the problem, that is

your problem.

MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, just a brief point of order. I

realize that the President of Treasury Board is pretty testy today and people in

the gallery I would say are probably intimidating him somewhat, so, my point of

order is, he should not be attributing motives to my colleague, the Member for

Harbour Main, because that is totally unparliamentary; not only is it

unparliamentary according to Beauchesne and all the other Parliamentary

references, it is so much out of character for the Government House Leader to

make those kinds of attacks.

It would be much better if he could respond to the issue

precisely as opposed to making personal attacks on the Member for Harbour Main,

which are unparliamentary.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker,

attributing motives is something that is very difficult to define and that is

the point the Member has raised; it has to do with attributing motives, Mr.

Speaker.

In his speech, obviously the Member for Harbour Main,

attributed many motives to Government and, Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind

Your Honour, that the only reason, and I am going to attribute a motive now, and

I will say, the only reason the Opposition House Leader stood to his feet on a

point of order, at this particular time, Mr. Speaker, was to kill my time

because I was just getting around to pointing out how belly dumps did not come

into existence this year, but were in existence when the hon. Member was

Minister of Employment and Labour. They were in existence when Members Opposite

were in Government and they did not do anything about what was happening then -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible).

MR. BAKER: - they did not do anything about it, so, Mr.

Speaker, I am simply pointing that out.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Hon. Members know the rules in presenting petitions and the

rules are clear; hon. Members should not enter into debate, they should speak to

the petition and speak to the material allegations in the petition, the

signatures in the petition; those are the restraints and those are the

limitations placed on Members when speaking to a petition; so I would ask the

hon. Member to continue if he is not finished.

The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How much time do I

have left?

MR. SPEAKER: About forty seconds.

MR. BAKER: Forty seconds. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to conclude by saying that there

are some things that are ongoing and this was one of them this morning that the

Minister of Works, Services and Transportation announced; we are considering the

other aspects of the problem and in the near future we will be announcing what

our intentions are, so, Mr. Speaker, I would like to conclude by pointing out,

that the Member for Harbour Main does not understand the problem, he is quite

upset that I mentioned belly dumps and says that, that has nothing to do with

the problem, but I say to the Member for Harbour Main, go and talk to the

truckers again and he will find out that, that is a very important part of the

problem.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible).

MR. GREENING: I am pleased to rise and present a petition

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I would like to call some order so that we can hear. I have

recognized that - the Member for Terra Nova could maybe take his seat - and I

have called for order, I have recognized the Member for Terra Nova. He was about

fifteen seconds into whatever it was he was doing. But because there was so much

noise I was not able to figure out what it was he was doing.

The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

MR. GREENING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to

rise and present a petition on behalf of 400 residents of the community of

Winter Brook and surrounding area. The prayer of the petition reads: we the

undersigned, as users of the road leading to the community of Winter Brook on

Route 234, are petitioning the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to

upgrade and pave this gravel road.

Over the past couple of years I have received letters from

the Minister responsible for Transportation asking for my priorities as it

pertains to road work. At every request I have suggested to the Minister that

this particular road would be upgraded and paved. Route 234 is approximately

twenty kilometers long, of which ten kilometers has been upgraded and paved. If

the people get the request that they are asking for and have this road paved, it

would enhance the economy. This road is being used daily by school bus runs,

people going to the doctors, people going to work. I have support letters here

from two elementary schools, a high school, (Inaudible) for the Winter Brook

Development Association, and from the local doctor which I will table.

AN HON. MEMBER: How many people?

MR. GREENING: Approximately 400 people have signed this

petition in the area. Also, if the Government would reconsider upgrading and

paving this particular Route 234, this would create some employment for some of

the truckers here in the galleries today and would probably save some of them

from bankruptcy and be able to allow them to put bread on their table. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Mary's - The

Capes.

MR. HEARN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand to present a

petition from a number of residents of Mall Bay in the district of St. Mary's -

The Capes. The prayer of the petition is: we the undersigned do hereby request

the Government to give serious consideration to the upgrading of Mall Bay Road

which is now in a deplorable condition. I stress the fact that the petition

requests upgrading. They do not even add paving which I know that they hope for

down the road.

A few days ago the Minister of Transportation in discussing

the road work that was allocated for this year mentioned that road work was not

being done in certain areas of the Province because all the roads were paved.

And one of the areas he listed as having all the roads paved was the district of

St. Mary's - The Capes. I will tell the hon. Minister that there are still roads

left unpaved in the district of St. Mary's - The Capes. Not as many perhaps as a

few years ago. In 1985 we had 175 miles of dirt road, today we have twenty-five.

But twenty-five miles of dirt road is as many miles of road as some people have

in their entire district.

One stretch of that, about four to five miles, is the road

down to Mall Bay, the only community now to which there is not a paved road.

These people have to leave the community daily to go to school. All the children

are bused out daily to the schools in the area. All the people down there who

work at fish plants and so on have to leave their community to go to other

surrounding communities. So it is a heavily travelled road on which most

residents will find themselves daily. There is also an extremely steep,

dangerous hill leading into the community which is usually in a deplorable

condition as is mentioned in the petition.

So consequently we ask the Minister of Transportation - and I

know he is not here right now, I presume he is attending meetings, but I know he

is listening. So we ask him to give serious consideration to the petition from

the members. And once again, some work will be created. We see this year very

little activity in relation to calling tenders for road construction. We hear

absolutely nothing about the capital works programmes of the Department of

Municipal Affairs, and we have contractors out there starving for work. Many of

the problems being experienced by the truckers, are as a result of the lack of

activity around the Province. So, we ask the Ministers to get with it, try to

get some work created, look at the areas of need, and in the case of Mall Bay,

we ask that the Minister give serious consideration to this petition. It is only

a four-to-five-mile stretch, and all they are asking for is that the road be

brought up to an acceptable condition. That, certainly, is not too much. In

light of the Minister's planning programme for this coming year, we ask him, as

we have done for three years in a row, to list Mall Bay as the priority for that

area. For the past three years, since this present administration has been in

power, the District of St. Mary's - The Capes has not had one red cent for road

improvements, in spite of the fact, as I said, we still have twenty-five miles

of dirt road in the district. So, once again, I stress to the Minister that the

priority for the district is the road to Mall Bay, and we ask him to keep this

in mind, as he plans his next agenda. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main.

MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition,

today, on behalf of approximately 462 residents out in my district, Seal Cove,

Conception Bay, and the Town of Conception Bay South. The prayer of the petition

reads: `To the hon. House of Assembly in legislative session convened, the

petition of the undersigned residents of Seal Cove, Conception Bay South.

We the undersigned object to the recent decision to delay the

repairs of the Seal Cove bridge. We are also very disappointed with Government's

opinion that the closure of the bridge is nothing more than an inconvenience to

the community. We are taxpayers, and we find this kind of attitude unacceptable,

especially, since the need is real. Repairs should start immediately. It appears

the Provincial Government is trying to ignore or put us off, and that is just

not good enough.'

It is a bit of a long prayer. The prayer continues: `Seal

Cove has always been a whole community with a bridge spanning the river. The

bridge has always been maintained without problem and it should be that way now.

Since the bridge collapsed because of ice in the spring thaw, school children

are required to remain on buses exposed to the dangers of the road for longer

periods of time. People must drive as much as ten kilometres to get to the store

or post office, and in the case of illness, accident or fire, five to ten

minutes delay could mean the difference between life and death or property loss.

The bridge is a vital part of Seal Cove; it maintains the

integrity of the community, and at present, there is a wooden foot-walk built

across the bridge. We assume it was put there to appease us. We do not consider

it an architectural masterpiece but, rather, an eyesore that we are ashamed for

outsiders to see. Very few, if anyone, uses the walkway and it is a waste of

taxpayers' money. If that is all you have to offer, we suggest you have it

removed. We do not know if Government is aware that the river valley is a real

wind tunnel and during windy or icy weather conditions, someone using that high

structure could be seriously hurt.

As the bridge and the structure now stands sagging down into

the river, it is more of an obstruction than it ever was before, and when the

spring thaw comes next year and the ice jams around the bridge, who will be

responsible for flooding or other serious damage incurred? We guess we can

accept the first flooding as

an act of God, however since Government chooses to

ignore the seriousness of the problem, in the event of another flood, we may

have to seek legal advice as to our rights, as residents of the community.

We realize money is scarce, but we also know that Government

always seems to find money to do any job it deems necessary, and this is

necessary. We look forward to positive action in the very near future. We

petition the House of Assembly to undertake restoration of the bridge.'

I have to say, Mr. Speaker, in defence of the Government -

and it is not very often I speak in defence of the Government - this petition

was taken up approximately two weeks ago, and since that time, I believe, the

Department of Works, Services and Transportation have agreed to put a temporary

Bailey bridge there - a temporary one, and the Town Council of CBS have agreed

to set aside about $500,000 to put a permanent Bailey bridge there, but, of

course, that would be contingent on any 60-40 road money they get from the

Department of Municipal Affairs. They intend to put some of it into the bridge,

if they get any money, at all, from the Department of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs.

So, I present this petition, today, on behalf of the people

of Seal Cove. It is a very legitimate one and, hopefully, the Minister of

Municipal and Provincial Affairs will come across with a few dollars for these

people so that they can get their bridge replaced.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber East.

MS. VERGE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to present a petition of more than 1,600 citizens of

the Province. Most of these people are students at Cabot Institute in St.

John's, and they come from all over Newfoundland and Labrador.

The petition was spearheaded by single parents at MUN. The

prayer is as follows:

`We, the undersigned, support the recommendations of single

parents at post-secondary educational institutions in the Province of

Newfoundland, that the Department of Social Services change its policy regarding

the inclusion as income, of the Canada Student Loan for the purposes of

calculating social assistance benefits.

Mr. Speaker, I wholeheartedly support this petition. I have

spoken in support of this reform on many occasions over the past several months,

since the matter has been brought to my attention and that of all members by the

single parents at MUN.

Mr. Speaker, single parents, trying to further their

education, trying to go to university or a non-university post-secondary

institution, find that the social assistance policy, instead of helping them in

their effort to become educated, and, in that way, to become independent,

actually hinders them.

Social assistance regulations treat student aid, both grants

and loans that have to be repaid in full following graduation, as non-allowable

income; the way the money flows, Mr. Speaker, once a student starts a semester,

say, around the middle of September, and receives a student loan, the student

has to wait about two months before receiving a grant; in the meantime, in the

eight weeks intervening, a single parent with a child is left with less than

$500 to live on, and that is, obviously, insufficient to meet basic needs, so

the policy discourages a social assistance recipient from trying to break out of

welfare by educating herself or himself and, through that means, become

self-sufficient.

Mr. Speaker, as I have said in the House and in the news

media, the number of single parent families in our Province, now on social

assistance is 7,500. There are 7,500 single parent families getting social

assistance now, and that means over 10,000 children of single parents, mostly

single mothers, who are living in poverty. This number has increased by 20 per

cent in the two years since the members opposite formed the Government. There

has been a 20 per cent rise in the number of single parent families on welfare,

over the last two years.

There has been a 20 per cent increase in the social

assistance case load over all, so that, today, there are 50,000 children, women

and men in this Province on welfare; that is a disgrace, Mr. Speaker, and this

Government should move immediately, having been made aware of the problem,

having appointed a committee last March to study it, to reform the Social

Assistance Policy, to give students contemplating going to school in September,

ample time to make their plans.

I think the President of Treasury Board, who has been the

Minister responsible for the Status of Women, and as of the other day become

acting Minister of Social Services, appreciates the need to move quickly on this

change to the social assistance policy.

I hope the Minister gets the support of his colleagues and

puts the necessary reform in place, as I say, quickly, in time for single

parents on welfare to take advantage of an improvement for the next school year,

starting in September.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. HARRIS: I rise in support of the petition presented

by the Member for Humber East. The petitioners form a rather unique group in

this Province, who have been quite active in advancing their own interests, and

not only their own interests, Mr. Speaker, they are also advancing the interests

of this Province, in seeking for themselves an education through Memorial

University and other institutions, and trying to do that despite the handicaps

they have, such as lack of funds, lack of support, and a lot of things going

against them.

I want to make these comments directly to the Member for

Gander. I call him the Member for Gander because it is easier to call him that,

than to call him by all the titles that he now possesses. Perhaps sometimes he

forgets he is the Member for Gander. He is now the Acting Minister of Social

Services. I say this to him, because I think there are some people who are glad

he is the Acting Minister responsible for Social Services. When I asked some of

the group involved in this what their feelings were on the resignation of the

former Minister, they said, `Relief.' They felt relieved. I think that is

important to note, Mr. Speaker, when we have so many, perhaps, partisan people

saying publicly to the news media and to the open lines, what a compassionate

former Minister they thought they had. This is one group, Mr. Speaker, who feel

that the former Minister was not listening to their concerns, and, in fact, was

trying to do things that was putting off their concerns.

Mr. Speaker, the Government position, up until now, was that

they had a serious question with respect to social assistance, to decide whether

or not they were prepared to regard student loans as income under the Social

Assistance regulations. Mr. Speaker, this is not something that the former

government did, or did not do, or addressed, or failed to address. It is a

decision that this Government made. This Government made a decision to disallow

student loans as allowable income under the Social Assistance regulations,

thereby suggesting that this was deducted from their allowance given under the

regulations.

Now, I understand that the current Minister responsible for

Social Services has met with the group, and has recognized that there is a

serious problem, and that it is really a technical problem. It is not something

that needs a committee of five or six or seven people to meet for months and

months, and put off making a decision. The only question that the Minister of

Social Services had was, whether it was going to affect the CAPP, the Canada

Assistance Plan Programme. Well, all that takes, Mr. Speaker, is a bureaucrat,

either here or in Ottawa, to answer that question. It seems to me, it is a very

simple question with a very simple answer. Once that question has been answered

- and I have no doubt that it will be answered favourably to the students - the

Government, if it so wishes, merely has to determine, as a matter of policy,

that it will no longer deduct from the students' social assistance, amounts they

receive as student loans. Loans, Mr. Speaker, are not income. Loans are merely

monies that are made available, that people have to pay back.

Mr. Speaker, when these individuals are trying to get

themselves an education so that they will have opportunities in their future and

not be a burden on the taxpayers of this Province, they should be encouraged in

their efforts to do so. In fact, what is happening is that these individuals are

being discouraged. Some of them are talking about not being able to go back to

university in the Fall. Some of them are so frustrated by this Government's

actions that they may not even have done well enough in their courses, this

year, to be able to go back in the fall.

So, I ask the Minister to consider, very seriously, the

position of these individuals and make a decision soon to allow them to continue

their education and to make it possible for them to do that without considering

their loans as income under the social assistance regulations. The Member for

Humber East said there are 7,500 single mothers living in poverty under these

circumstances and I accept that. I think that we are going to see more, and the

reason we are, Mr. Speaker, is because it is becoming more and more socially

acceptable for young women, some who are not married or never married who have

children to keep them and to bring them up, and there are going to be more

single parents who are in circumstances that they will have to get themselves

out of, and I ask the Government to help them to do that.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. Member's time is up.

The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise today in

support of this particular petition. Not only in support of this particular

petition and what this petition sets out to do, but I would like to lend my

support to further encompass the whole area of adult education and training.

I became involved in adult education in the Province in the

early 70's and I remember one of the first meetings I ever had when I became an

official of the Department of Education. After getting in contact with a lot of

the students, particularly at the Adult Education Centre in St. John's and

around the Province, I found that a lot of students who were on social

assistance were not only on social assistance, but on low incomes, the working

poor in this Province who were trying to up-grade their skills and trying to get

a better job.

I remember meeting at that particular time and submitting a

proposal to the Minister of Social Services who was the Member at the time for

St. John's Centre, the hon. Ank Murphy and Vern Hollett who was the deputy

minister of Social Services. I presented a plan and a paper at that particular

point in time suggesting that anybody on social assistance who agreed to

up-grade themselves be paid an extra amount - forget about student loans, forget

about all the other things. We have to do that, I think, in order to break the

welfare cycle.

I think one of the things we should look at is that some of

the money that we use now probably encourages people to stay on social

assistance, a lot of the community development projects. There is a lot of money

being spent and I think that a lot of it would be better utilized if we were to

give extra incentives. A lot of these people, and I used to see them in adult

education classes, go back to school and find there are a lot of other needs

students have that you do not normally have when you stay at home. I mean most

of those people when they go to school at night or in the day time have

transportation costs, day care costs, etc.

As a matter of fact in 1987 I did a major paper which I

worked on for five weeks in response to the royal commission on employment and

unemployment outlining a five year plan where I recommended to the previous

government and the Minister at the time, the Minister of Career Development and

Advance Studies, the present Member for Ferryland. As a matter of fact I worked

on it day and night and weekends because it was a rush, and one of the things

that I indicated in that report was free tuition fees, child care,

transportation allowances and various other support for low income families, not

only single parents, but low income families who want to go back and up-grade

their skills. The hon. Member for Humber East, I am sure, saw a lot of these

papers that were generated by Bill Shallow and myself over the years. A lot of

it I am sure is in the registry of the Department of Education. I remember

protesting the increase in tuition fees. At one time in adult basic education we

had free tuition fees. Under the Minister we increased the tuition fees for

single parents and adult education tremendously. I always fought against

increasing tuition fees for that particular clientele. I can assure you, as a

member of this particular Government, that one of my objectives is to make sure

that people who are in this Cabinet are made aware of the disadvantages that

people have in trying to upgrade their adult education or university training. I

can assure you, that I will be lobbying strong and hard to make sure when the

funds are available that some of these services are provided for the people in

this Province who are trying to break out of the welfare cycle.

I could stand here all day and give you examples of hundreds,

yes, thousands of people who were on social assistance, single parents, as a

matter of fact, we had a lot of classes where both the husband and wife came

back to adult education. As I travel around this Province now, I see a lot of

these people in very high paying jobs, who did their Grades IX, X and XI in

adult education at night, and went on to further training.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. BARRETT: I can assure you, as a member, I fully

support this petition, but I also support the fact that we need to look at

income support and other allowances for not only people who are on social

assistant, but the working poor in this particular Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like leave of the House for the Minister of

Development to introduce a special resolution. I wonder if the Minister would be

allowed to explain it to the House.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. Minister have leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Development.

MR. FUREY: Just a quick correction, Mr. Speaker, from

yesterday. The Premier made a statement concerning the Advisory Council on the

Economy, and the name of Miss Julie Briffett of Pasadena was inadvertently

omitted. We regret that error, and we wanted to read it into the record, Mr.

Speaker.

I thank hon. members for the leave to present this resolution

which essentially calls for the changing of the name of the Province, or at

least the Island portion of the Province, for twenty-four hours.

Whereas a millennium, 1,000 years, has elapsed since the

transatlantic crossing by the Vikings, who, led by Leif Eiriksson, made landfall

at L'Anse-au-Meadows; and

Whereas Iceland and Norway, in a joint venture to mark this

anniversary, by re-enacting the voyage of Leif Eiriksson, have commissioned a

replica Viking long ship, and named it, The Gaea, after the Greek Goddess of the

Earth; and

Whereas the Vikings knew the land they found as Vinland; and

Whereas this event is focusing the attention of the world on

our Province and attracting visitors to our Province;

Be It Resolved that, for all purposes connected with the

celebration of the anniversary of this notable feat of exploration and

navigation, the Island of Newfoundland, as the known site of the Viking

landfall, shall for the full day of August 2, 1991 be designated Vinland.

Mr. Speaker, I should tell the House that on May 17, of this

year, replicas of the 1,000 year old Viking ships departed from Bergen, Norway,

for North America. One of these ships, The Gaea, will sale across the North

Atlantic with a crew of twelve to recreate the voyage of Leif Eiriksson, which

the Norwegians claim brought Eiriksson to North America, which he called Vinland

at that time, a full 500 years before Columbus. This commorative voyage is part

of a joint venture, Mr. Speaker, sponsored by the Icelandic and Norwegian

Governments, in co-operation with the world city discovery of Norway, and the

Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation.

The Gaea will visit the Orkney, Shetland and Faeroe Islands,

Iceland and Greenland, before landing at L'Anse-au-Meadows on August 2, of this

year. The Viking site at L'Anse-au-Meadows, which is a Unesco world heritage

site is the focal point of the whole project. L'Anse-au-Meadows will receive

world wide attention as a result of this visit, and the participation of the

President of Iceland, the Norwegian Minister of Cultural Affairs, Helge and Anne

Stine Ingstad, who were the discoverers in the 1960s, as well as other senior

Federal and Provincial government representatives and the world media, would be

at L'Anse-aux-Meadows on August 2nd. The gaea, I think will remain there for two

or three days and then it will depart for the capital city of St. John's and

will arrive here, we are told, August 9th and will remain until the 17th, then

depart for Halifax and the Eastern Seaboard of the United States where it will

ultimately end up in Washington D.C. so, Mr. Speaker, I thank Members for leave;

we think that this is an important event, not just for our Province to celebrate

the thousand years of history of the discovery by the Vikings, but it is an

international event which will put the spot light from the international media

on the entire Province -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FUREY: Indeed I have. In fact the Canadian Embassy in

Norway at Oslo, invited me to speak at a dinner in their honour, and it was at

that time that I thanked them publicly on behalf of the Province, for their

great work in the 1960s and 1970s.

Last year, if the hon. Member would look at my expenses, he

would see that I was in Oslo last year-

MR. SIMMS: (Inaudible).

MR. FUREY: - and it was at that time, but I did - this is

true that I have been gone a long time but I always remembered to come back. Mr.

Speaker, just seriously, for a minute, I did meet the Ingstads, they are a

lovely couple; their coming here and -

Mr. Speaker, I said the Vikings were not coming until August

2nd, At any rate, Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleagues for leave and for quick

passage of this resolution to name the Island portion for that twenty-four hours

converted from Newfoundland to Vinland, so thank you, very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I want to acknowledge the appointment of Mrs.

Julie Briffett to the Advisory Council on the Economy that the Minister

mentioned was inadvertently left out of yesterday's statement. Certainly, we

wish her well with the rest of our colleagues in her deliberations in trying to

advise a Government that knows as much about the economy and how to develop the

economy of Newfoundland and Labrador as I know about the moon.

But, Mr. Speaker, coming to the - as I know about the Viking.

MR. SIMMS: Oh, he knows well about the Vikings, just

listen.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my colleagues in

the official opposition, I want to say that I am pleased to support this

resolution. The Minister and the Premier have spoken to me about this particular

resolution during the course of the last couple of days and I think it is

eminently appropriate, that symbolically, for the twenty-four hour period, first

when this ship arrives at L'Anse-aux-Meadows, that the Island portion of

Newfoundland or the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador be known as Vinland; I

have no difficulty with that at all, in fact, I think it is eminently

appropriate that we do that.

I had an opportunity, when I was Minister of Fisheries to

officially represent the Province at the official opening of the

L'Anse-aux-Meadows site and I must say, it is a very impressive development,

very, very impressive development and as I said, I represented the Province as

Minister of Fisheries at the official opening of that site, together with the

Canadian Minister and the Inkstads and we had a very special -

MR. SIMMS: Helga and -

MR. RIDEOUT: Helga and Anne Stine; we had a very special

tribute paid to the Inkstads in St. Anthony at that time. I hosted a Government

dinner, because, as we know, they discovered the site, they worked very

diligently through the 1960s and 1970s and really, it was a very, very

significant discovery, because they had nothing to go by except the old sagas;

there was nothing written down historically that would lead them to

L'Anse-aux-Meadows, and it -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. RIDEOUT: I beg your pardon?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. RIDEOUT: Yes. - and in fact, they told me and people

in the area told me, that if you were to walk by what is now the

L'Anse-aux-Meadows National Historic Site, unless you were very keen of eye,

there was nothing noticeable, except for the odd little mound that might leave

you with the impression that years and years ago it might have been a potato

garden or something of that nature. So it was a great historic discovery, and I

am delighted that Canada or Unesco has declared it to be a world site. I think

it is very, very significant for Newfoundland and Canada that has happened. And

I believe that it is entirely appropriate that on the occasion of this discovery

and that on August 2nd, 1991 that Newfoundland be symbolically, at least, known

as Vinland.

I am pleased, Mr. Speaker, that the President of Iceland will

be coming for that, a very high profile Minister from Norway, and I am sure that

as it was the last time I was in L'Anse-au-Meadows that the international press

will be there. I am very, very confident of that because it is a world historic

site. The European community in particular is attracted to it because of the

connection with the Vikings, and I think that you will see that there will be a

tremendous in pouring again of international press to that site and that can

only be good for tourism in our Province.

So, Mr. Speaker, anything that is good for Newfoundland and

Labrador we support, and I believe that this will be good for the Province, good

for the tourism industry, good for the promotion of the Province and therefore

on behalf of my colleagues, I wholeheartedly endorse the resolution and commend

the Minister and the Government for bringing it forth.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to rise to

support the resolution presented by the Minister of Development and to say that

I am very pleased to see that the Province has decided to take the action to

participate in the event in a very unique way, to symbolically change the name

of the Island part of the Province to Vinland as it was known by the Vikings.

I am not going to get involved in whatever disputes there

might be over the Viking sagas as to which land was Vinland and which land was

something else. I think that it is accepted that the landing at L'Anse-au-Meadow

was a very important and significant part of the Viking sagas and the Viking

navigation of 1,000 years ago. I suppose there is some debate, Mr. Speaker, as

to whether or not they were the first of the scandinavian or European people to

travel to the island portion of Newfoundland, of course, to find the people who

were already here making a living and living for centuries and thousands of

years, perhaps. But there is also some - and I have not heard anything of it in

recent years, but there is also some evidence that the Irish navigators, those

of St. Brendan, may have also been on the northwest coast of Newfoundland. There

is some evidence of runic writing that has been found in certain portions of the

northwest coast. Perhaps the Minister of Development is familiar with some of

these stones that have been found some distance from the shore with various

symbolic and significant writings on them. But the Vikings, Mr. Speaker, have

made a very significant mark by presenting and finding through the work of the

Ingstad's in discovering the location of the settlement at L'Anse-au-Meadows and

to know that the Vikings in those early days were able to travel the seas in the

ships that they had.

I had occasion, Mr. Speaker, to visit Norway several years

ago and to look in near Oslo at a museum which had a number of the very well

preserved Viking ships that had been found in a peat bog and thereby preserved.

The size of those ships and to know that the Vikings 1,000 years ago had built

those ships and were able to navigate the north Atlantic to be able to travel to

this Province at that time on voyages of exploration and discovery is quite

something. I did not have occasion at that time to meet the Ingstad's, but I

know of their work and how important it was for them to be able to discover

through the evidence available from the sagas and from what they were able to

know about the knowledge of wind and currents to be able to discover that site,

and I think we owe them a debt of gratitude for bringing that to the attention

of Newfoundlanders and indeed the world. And I am also very proud along with

other Members of this House to see that L'Anse-au-Meadows has been named a World

Heritage Site. I believe if I am not wrong that it was in fact the first World

Heritage Site designated by the United Nations through the Unesco programme. And

I think it is a very positive gesture in the interests of participating

wholeheartedly in the celebration by the Norwegian and Icelandic people to

re-enact the Viking voyages that we for this day rename the Province "Vinland"

to give recognition and commendation to the voyages of the Viking explorers so

long ago.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: All those in favour, 'aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: Those against, 'nay'. Carried.

The President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like leave of

the House to call as the next item Bill 40 which has been distributed. And I

would like leave of the House to deal with all three stages of the Bill today.

And if I do get that leave I would then like to call the first reading of said

Bill.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Labour to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Labour Relations Act, 1977, No. 2" carried. (Bill No. 40).

On motion, Bill No. 40 read a first time, ordered read a

second time now, by leave.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Amend The Labour

Relations Act, 1977, No. 2". (Bill No. 40).

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the President of Treasury Board.

MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This Bill is something

that was put together very quickly as a result of a decision in the Newfoundland

Supreme Court Trial Division concerning the construction industry panel of the

Labour Relations Board. And a ruling was made that in essence declared that

panel nonexistent. The panel of the Board has since 1987 been deciding matters

such as the existence of collective agreements, imposition of first collective

agreements, issues related to transfer of businesses and so on. Until the

particular case the validity of the appointments to the panel have never been

issues in any particular decision.

The problem is that

Section 9-3 of the Act provides the panel

consist of a Chairman, or Vice-Chairman if appointed by the Chairman, and two

representative members who are representative of employees and employers in the

industry or service with which the matter before the panel is concerned. The

judge concluded that appointing two representatives of each group instead of one

- which it seems to me, just an off-handed comment, is probably even better than

one from each group.

AN HON. MEMBER: You would think so (Inaudible).

MR. BAKER: Yes, and to guarantee you always had one

(Inaudible) and so on. But that appointing two representatives from each group

was an error. And on that basis, Mr. Speaker, he made his decision that the

Minute of Council appointing the panel was ultra vires.

So it creates an tremendous problem. There have been 400 such

decisions made by this panel since 1987. And

whereas they have not all been

appealed the possibility exists that during the summer decisions that have been

long-standing, decisions that have been in place for four years and decisions

that perhaps have meant a lot of money and exchange and so on in terms of unions

or in terms of businesses - could wreak havoc in some areas of the Province.

whereas an appeal of this decision has been commenced this

amendment will ensure, for all parties' clarification, that the status quo has

been accepted over the past four years and it remains in as far as it relates to

decisions already rendered by the construction industry panel.

The wording is very careful so that there is no interference

with any other issue that may arise and says that

Section 9 of the Labour

Relations Act 1977 is amended by adding immediately after subsection (6) the

following: a decision or action of the construction industry panel or other

panel of the Board appointed under subsection 9-1 as enacted by

Chapter 64 of

1977, whether that decision was made before or after the coming into force of

this subsection, is not invalid or ineffective by reason only of a defect in the

constitution of the panel.

So that leaves the door open for any other proper challenge

of any decisions made since 1987. Mr. Speaker, that is the reason that we have

had to rush in this piece of legislation at this particular time.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would want a few

brief words to say on this particular Bill, "An Act To Amend The Labour

Relations Act." We understand the timely necessity and the bind that the

Government finds itself in. Obviously if the Minister wished he could be a

little political and say that this Government