Second Session, 42nd Parliament

(2021) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Thursday, June 17, 2021

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 97

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

Legislative interns

S. Bond

Don Gillespie

F. Donnelly

Chase Hamper food bank

T. Stone

Legislative interns

A. Mercier

Green Party caucus staff

S. Furstenau

Action against racism and hate

A. Singh

Ministerial Statements

Demolition of residential school at Lower Post

Hon. N. Cullen

P. Milobar

A. Olsen

Oral Questions

Government action on opioid crisis and activation of Health Committee

S. Bond

Hon. S. Malcolmson

Premier’s office budget and intergovernmental

relations

M. de Jong

Hon. R. Fleming

Government response to U.S. legislation on cruise ship

industry

M. de Jong

Hon. M. Farnworth

Long-term COVID-19 cases and support for patients

S. Furstenau

Hon. A. Dix

COVID-19 reopening and guidance on aerosol transmission

S. Furstenau

Hon. A. Dix

Taxation of COVID-19 supports

M. Bernier

Hon. R. Kahlon

Residential addiction treatment services for girls

T. Halford

Hon. S. Malcolmson

Tabling Documents

Office of the Ombudsperson and Office of the Information and Privacy

Commissioner, joint report, Getting Ahead of the Curve: Meeting

the Challenges to Privacy and Fairness Arising from the Use of Artificial

Intelligence in the Public Sector

Petitions

S. Furstenau

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Children and Family Development (continued)

Estimates: Office of the Premier (continued)

S. Bond

Hon. J. Horgan

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health (continued)

A. Olsen

Hon. A. Dix

S. Furstenau

Proceedings in the Birch Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure (continued)

M. Lee

R. Merrifield

Hon. R. Fleming

B. Stewart

THURSDAY, JUNE 17, 2021

The House met at 10:04 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Mr. Speaker: I invite Elder Butch Dick of Songhees Nation to lead the House in prayer

and reflection.

B. Dick: [Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ was spoken.]

Thank you very much for having me back again today. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

I think we’ve got a lot to be thankful for in the past year, and I would

like to extend my gratitude to the front-line workers, the health care workers

and all the people that work in grocery stores, which includes my

family.

[10:05 a.m.]

We’re very appreciative of all the things that all people have done, in

particular this House, and how you’ve looked after the province and everyone in

the province. In particular, I’d like to raise my hands to Minister Adrian Dix

and, of course, Dr. Henry. Our community has been fairly lucky. We’ve stayed

healthy, and that’s because of other people taking care of us.

I always welcome being able to come to this House. I want to thank the

people that work in this House for being so accommodating and comforting. I

always feel welcome when I come here, and that’s because of the staff that are

in this House. I’d like to thank Karen from the Speaker’s office and everyone

else.

I’d like to do a song before I leave today, and again, I want to raise my

hands to each and everyone in this House. Thank you very much, and I’d like to

do a song.

[Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ was spoken and

sung.]

Introductions by Members

K. Greene: Next week is my mom’s birthday. She taught me how to be strong, that

normal is boring and how to make the best butter tarts in the

world.

Many people say their mom knows everything. If you watch

Jeopardy with her, you’d realize it’s true. She does know

everything.

My mom is the very best grandma to her seven grandchildren. Will

everyone please join me in wishing her a happy birthday.

M. Dykeman: I wanted to take a moment to wish two constituents and friends of mine

in my riding a happy 15th anniversary. David Lyons-Black and Dale

Lyons-Black are the first same-sex couple to be married in Langley all those

years ago. I was wondering if the House could please join me in wishing them

a very happy 15th anniversary.

My second introduction is for my daughter, Mac. In a few short days,

she is going to be turning 16 years old. As we won’t be here next week for

me to be able to wish her happy birthday in this House, I was wondering if

the House could join me today in wishing her a very happy early

birthday.

[10:10 a.m.]

T. Halford: It gives me great pride to introduce Ms. Cutler’s class from White

Rock Elementary, who are joining us virtually today. I want to thank all the

kids in the class and Ms. Cutler for making the time to watch us in

action.

I do want to single out one student in that class, and that is

Benjamin, who is my son, and who’s also one of my best friends. Being over

here, we haven’t been able to see each other as much as we’d like, but dad

is excited to come home.

I’ll also point out that tonight for both of my sons, Benjamin and

Nicholas, is their grad night. I won’t be joining them for that as well, but

I just want to let them know dad is proud, and I look forward to a great

weekend ahead.

A. Singh: Would the House please join me and my colleague from

Richmond-Steveston in wishing a happy 103rd birthday to Shizuko Nishi. Born

in Japan, moved to Steveston in 1937, last week she marked this amazing

milestone with a family gathering in celebration at her current home in east

Richmond. Please join us in wishing Shizuko a happy 103rd

birthday.

Hon. M. Farnworth: Because it is the last day of session for the spring session, it’s my

opportunity to thank those wonderful interns who’ve assisted our side of the

House, and the opposition has interns that they also have assisting them.

It’s my great pleasure to recognize and thank Kate Olivares, Gabriel Martz,

Rachel McMillan, Kala Bryson and Arian Zand.

Would the House please thank our wonderful interns for everything

they’ve done this session.

C. Oakes: I would humbly ask all of the members of the Legislature to join with

me to acknowledge all of our post-secondary technical and skills graduates

from across British Columbia, for each of us to share our profound respect

for your perseverance during a very difficult time and to share our absolute

confidence in each of you for what I know is going to be a successful

future.

Would the House please help me and recognize all of our amazing

graduates across British Columbia.

T. Shypitka: It appears I have something in common with the member from Langley

East. I, as well, have a daughter that is turning 16 in one month from today

exactly, actually. July 17, my daughter, Allie Shypitka, will be turning

sweet 16.

I would just like to mention that, and if the House would just please

join me in wishing her a happy birthday, it’d be great.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

LEGISLATIVE INTERNS

S. Bond: I rise today to recognize the hard work of five special members of

this session’s B.C. Liberal caucus team — Moira Louw, Camille Haisell,

Michael Kurliak, William Kelly and Gabrielle Parent. This impressive

group are the B.C. legislative internship program placements in our

caucus this year.

Over the course of this legislative session, they have become

important members of our team. Today, on their final day with us, I want

to take the time to thank them for contributing their ideas, sharing

their insights and helping us serve British Columbians as the province’s

official opposition.

I want to thank Gabrielle for all her work with the communications

team, helping MLAs with scripts, speeches and making sure the work we do

here in the House is shared with British Columbians. I want to thank

reach out online to people throughout the province. Your work made us

better.

I want to thank Camille, who is passionate about a holistic

approach to complex care housing, providing invaluable support to our

research team during Mental Health and Addictions estimates and Housing

estimates. I want to thank Michael, whose keen interest in economics and

financial issues was obvious, and it was helpful as he pitched in on

Jobs, Ministry and Finance estimates and proved that he has a drive to

get things done.

[10:15 a.m.]

I want to thank Moira for her impressive work ethic as she helped

me personally and our research team in preparing for Seniors Services

and Long-term Care estimates with her incredible knowledge from her time

with the office of the B.C. seniors advocate.

On behalf of our entire caucus, I want to say it has been an

absolute pleasure to get to know you. Amidst the difficulties and

uncertainties brought on by the pandemic, I applaud you for your

adaptability and your strength. Best of luck in your future endeavors. I

know, without a doubt, that the future is bright for each of you. I

can’t wait to see where the future takes you. A heartfelt thank

you.

DON GILLESPIE

F. Donnelly: It’s with a heavy heart I rise to pay tribute to the life of

Tri-Cities legend, Don Gillespie. Don dedicated his life to the

protection and betterment of the environment. He spent almost 40 years

in his retirement as a volunteer, preserving natural areas for others to

explore and enjoy. He was literally a trail-blazer, making Burke

Mountain accessible to hikers by clearing trails, brushing out old

logging roads and opening up amazing views.

Today Burke Mountain is part of Pinecone Burke Provincial Park.

The park’s most popular trails, the Woodland Walk, the Coquitlam Lake

View Trail and portions of the Fool’s Gold trail, are all trails created

by Don. As a tribute to his trail-blazing, one of the highest peaks was

named after him, Mount Gillespie.Don and his good friend Doug Bennie

created the popular Sheep Paddocks Trail along the Coquitlam River and

Colony Farm Regional Park. He also built trails on Coquitlam’s Riverview

lands.

Don had a contagious smile and was quick to tell a story. He was a

mentor to many and a passionate advocate for nature. Don was a strong

community leader who was determined to make things better for future

generations. Donny, as I used to call him, was quick to remind you what

needed to be done: “Don’t bother with any of those excuses. You better

just quit talking and get to it.”

A longtime member of the Burke Mountain Naturalists, he and his

wife, Norma, worked tirelessly for decades to designate and protect

natural spaces in and around the Tri-Cities. He also volunteered with

Friends of DeBoville Slough, Coquitlam RiverWatch, the Friends of

Douglas Island, the Wilderness Committee, Riverview Horticultural Centre

Society and Colony Farm Park Association.

Our entire community owes a debt of gratitude to Don for his great

work and tremendous advocacy. On behalf of the Tri-City MLAs, our

deepest condolences go to his loving wife, Norma, his five children,

Michael, Donald, Christine, Ian and John, and his ten grandchildren and

four great-grandchildren. Donny will truly be missed but not

forgotten.

Rest easy, my friend.

CHASE HAMPER FOOD BANK

T. Stone: When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Throughout our

province, there are communities we are all able to boast about,

communities which, time and time again, punch above their weight with

respect to the impact they have at the ground level in helping our

province’s most vulnerable.

On the shores of the Little Shuswap, the village of Chase

epitomizes heartwarming community spirit with unwa­vering support

for the local food bank, known as the Chase Hamper.

Under the leadership of Maureen MacDonald, this organization,

borne out of necessity in the early 1990s, is, indeed, a

difference-maker and quite possibly a life-saver for many people who,

through no fault of their own, require assistance to feed themselves and

their families.

As every member of this chamber knows, this is no small task. Over

the past year, largely because of the pandemic, the number of people

receiving help at the Chase Hamper has increased fourfold from within

the vast area that they serve, including Chase, neighbouring First

Nations bands, Pritchard, Chase Creek, Turtle Valley, Lee Creek,

Celista, Magna Bay, Anglemont and Seymour Arm.

These challenges in difficult times have been met with vigor as

the Chase Hamper’s volunteer base has also exploded to nearly 50 since

the pandemic hit. Through it all, the Chase Hamper forges on with its

“nothing will stop us” attitude. Chase is a small community of only

2,500 residents, but last December, through the generosity of area

residents, the Hamper was able to restock its supplies with over 4,200

pounds of food donations.

This month Maureen MacDonald and her colleagues are busily making

plans to resume a senior meals program in July, following the upgrade of

the Chase Community Hall kitchen. They’ve also just launched an

innovative partnership with the B.C. Farmers Market Association, which

will see Hamper clients receive coupons for locally grown, fresh

produce. The Chase Hamper is especially proud of the fact that they

employ nine people with disabilities.

When the going gets tough, the tough, indeed, get going —

something exemplified each and every day by the Chase Hamper and a very

caring community.

[10:20 a.m.]

LEGISLATIVE INTERNS

A. Mercier: A few months ago I had my first week here at the Legislature, on

the precinct grounds. On my way to find my spacious and well-lit

basement office underneath the library stacks, I got lost. I stumbled on

a room full of wide-eyed and engaged young people — this year’s interns

from the government caucus. I’ll confess that at first, I approached

them with a sense of confidence. I thought they’d be excited to meet a

new government MLA, a parliamentary secretary. I engaged with them, and

we had a brief conversation.

My confidence quickly turned to surprise as I realized how

accomplished they already are at such a young age and the big plans and

ambitions that they have with their lives. That sense of surprise

quickly turned into a dawning horror as I looked past them and I saw the

whiteboard with photos of all the government caucus members and tallies

next to them. I realized that what these kids were doing…. They had

created an elaborate system for ranking government MLAs. If I’m not

working for one of these kids in the near future, I definitely need them

for job references.

I quickly tried to assert myself as the head of the pack and made

stopping in to visit them on a weekly basis a part of my repertoire —

and paying tribute with gifts. Now, I realized I can’t compete with the

Vancouver Island MLAs. My colleagues from the Island have much greater

access to the Legislature in these times, so I began making elaborate

distractions so I could use a dry-erase marker to remove points from my

colleagues — the Premier, the Minister of Municipal Affairs, the member

for Parksville-Qualicum and others. So I hope I’ve ended up with a

respectable tally at the end of the day.

I’ve learned a valuable lesson from this group, and that is:

underneath every successful caucus is a basement filled with

interns.

I just want to thank Arian Zand, Rachel McMillian, Kate Olivares,

Kala Bryson and Gabriel “call me Ray-Ray” Martz.

GREEN PARTY CAUCUS STAFF

S. Furstenau: It’s nice to see all the gratitude being ex­pressed today in

the House. It’s a great way to end our session. I love coming to work.

Before all my esteemed colleagues in here take all the credit for the

joy and purpose I find in my role, I’m going to put it on the record

that it really is the amazing team of people in our caucus office who

fill my days with happiness.

My colleague from Saanich North and the Islands and I could not

possibly do the work we’ve been doing without all of the hard work from

our crew in the B.C. Green caucus office. Judy Rendek keeps our

schedules humming and flowing and manages all of our administrative

tasks with an ease that is truly a wonder to behold. Sarah Miller and

Hailey May go deep on our policy files, ensuring that we are, in fact,

evidence based and fact driven in our work. Kaylea Kray-Domingo ensures

that our connections to the outside world of this building enrich and

inform the work we do inside.

JoJo Beattie and Federico Cerani are accomplished

com­munication experts, making sure we’re telling the stories that

matter to people. Federico also has a particular talent with memes,

having brought us Gen Xers up to speed on this artful approach with a

very informative PowerPoint a year ago explaining the difference between

a meme — good — and an infographic — boring.

Abby Koning joined our small and mighty team as our intern this

year. She has been an incredible addition to the crew. She has written

statements, QP questions, estimates questions and introduced the daily

wrap, which we shall be keeping — note to staff — capturing all of the

action each day in an email to our caucus and constituency

offices.

Abby has artfully and professionally managed our ra­ther

complicated estimates schedules, making sure that two MLAs are somehow

in three Houses at all times with the right questions at the right time.

We will deeply miss Abby. On behalf of our team, I want to express our

sincere thanks for her excellent work and our very best wishes for her

next adventure.

[10:25 a.m.]

ACTION AGAINST RACISM AND HATE

A. Singh: At the close of this session, I’m reminded of our collective

obligations as we head back to our respective homes. As I walked up

towards what is truly a majestic building, adorned with stone and topped

in teal domes, I was struck by the blanket of shoes and orange shirts

that greeted me.

The last few weeks have been a particularly poignant reminder of

how deep racism and white supremacy run in our society, the reminder

from Kamloops of the harsh reality of colonialism and the numerous

injustices, violence and genocide perpetrated on Indigenous people, in

the past and still very much alive in the vestiges of colonialism

today.

The rapid rise of racism. Even calling it a rise seems to me a

misnomer, as that racism has always been there under the very thin

veneer of respectability and tolerance. It is, in fact, one of the

seminal founding concepts of this country and something that we need to

fight and work against every day that we show up here.

The impact of COVID on laying bare the anti-Asian sentiment that

lay just under that veneer, to the sickening rise of hate, white

supremacy and Islamophobia, whose natural result we saw in the murder of

the Afzaal family in London…. I spoke with members of the Muslim

community. Two of the larger mosques are located in the constituency

which I represent. That incident did not come as a shock to them. They

did not have a “how could it happen here?” moment. They have seen the

rise of hate, and this, as I said, is the natural result.

They reminded me that these actions don’t happen in a vacuum. They

start with seemingly innocuous comments and attitudes; dog-whistling,

often centred around the othering of racialized people; and targeting

the most vulnerable — refugees, immigrants and immigration policies.

We’ve all spoken about this hate and how it affects us or the ones we

love — our grandchildren, spouses, friends.

As we step away from here, I hope that you will join me in looking

within yourselves and make the space in your communities to listen to

the stories and the words of the people affected, and that you’ll hear

those words so that when we get back here, we can continue together to

make the decisions that will take us to a better place and that allow us

to confront the reality of the history of violence and genocide that is

so much a part of this place.

Ministerial Statements

DEMOLITION OF RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL

AT LOWER

POST

Hon. N. Cullen: As this session comes to an end, it is a time of reflection and

gratitude for the incredible privilege we all share to serve this

beautiful province to the best of our abilities. This has been a most

challenging and painful time, as well, facing the dual epidemics of

COVID and the opioid crisis, and the incredibly heart-wrenching

discoveries of the 215 young bodies buried in unmarked graves in

Kamloops.

On Monday, it is National Indigenous Peoples Day, of course. This

year I will be driving the 14 hours from my home here in Smithers, on

Wet’suwet’en Gidimt’en territory, up the road to Lower Post, in Kaska

Dena territory. I’ll be joining the Premier, the Minister of Indigenous

Relations and Reconciliation and the Member of Parliament, Taylor

Bachrach, at the invitation of the Kaska Dena. We will be there to

witness a ceremony that should, in fact, have happened decades ago: the

tearing down, the demolishing, of the residential school.

The Kaska were forced to enter this building for many, many years.

As Deputy Chief Harlan Schilling said: “The Lower Post Residential

School building has been a dark cloud over our people for far too long

and stood in the centre of our community as a reminder of a very painful

past.”

We are not just there to demolish that building, but we are there

to build something new. With the support of the federal government and

Minister of State Marc Miller, we are building a new building with the

Kaska — a government building; a cultural, education and recreational

centre for their people. As Taku River Tlingit spokesperson John Ward

said: “I believe this event can lead the way for all of Canada, because

all of Canada needs to heal.”

This has been a most difficult time for many, but as we emerge

from this pandemic, we are filled with a sense of hope and gratitude.

We, as a province and as a country, must face our past together, because

perhaps together, we can heal.

[10:30 a.m.]

P. Milobar: Thank you for the words from the minister of state as

well.

Certainly, as we approach Indigenous day on Monday, and reflecting

on the discovery in Kamloops of the 215 lost children, what it has done

for us as a community, as a nation, in terms of a conversation around

reconciliation and how serious it is that we all move forward in a good

way and in a meaningful way…. Certainly, the events that have led to the

Lower Post being able to find the support from governments, finally,

federal and provincial, for the removal of their school, at their

asking, is a very important step.

We all know that First Nations have a very complicated history

with the residential school system, and I say that because there are

some nations that have chosen not to remove their schools, so we cannot

just assume that all schools need to be removed. But we need to be

working in a much quicker fashion to support — across jurisdictions,

federal and provincial — those nations that do choose to remove these

buildings that have inflicted so much generational pain amongst their

people.

It shouldn’t take decades to help facilitate and move forward with

something like this. It shouldn’t take decades, frankly, to make sure

there’s clean drinking water. If we are going to be truly, meaningfully

engaging in reconciliation, we need to be taking the requests and the

asks, moving forward, from these Indigenous nations quite seriously and

actually find ways to action them.

The Lower Post removal is a good step in that direction, and it

makes us all happy to know that that will finally happen at the

direction of the leadership up in Lower Post. So thank you for this

time, Mr. Speaker, and I look forward to more meaningful, tangible

actions towards reconciliation in the days, weeks, months and years

ahead.

A. Olsen: To my colleague from Richmond-Queensborough,

HÍSW̱ḴE SIÁM for

your powerful words this morning.

Thank you to my colleagues the Minister of State for Lands and the

Opposition House Leader for your words.

Over the next few days, my prayers will be with our relatives of

the Kaska Dena, as they deconstruct the residential school that still

stands in their community. This is an important part of the healing

process for our northern relatives.

As British Columbians embrace a greater awareness and

understanding of the despicable history of our colonial past, the

stories of this provincial government, the stories of our federal

government that created the laws and policy that provide the structure

for the forced assimilation of Indigenous People…. Those laws and

policies were created in the same way that we create the laws and

policies in this chamber today.

We know that while the physical reminders of the history of

residential schools can be removed by tearing down walls, the

psychological and spiritual impacts are carried for a lifetime, and the

trauma is passed from one generation to the next.

This provincial government must never forget the role that elected

members, represented by the 87 of us that sit in these seats today,

played in advancing these horrific policies. We have inherited those

stories, and if we are to truly reconcile that history, we must change

more than the language that we use. We must also change our

actions.

The residential schools were established to remove the Indian in

the child, to disrupt our beautiful cultures and to dispossess us from

our lands. In many ways, this government is continuing that

dispossession. The policies that removed Indigenous governance

structures and the scattering of our ancestral remains and items of

cultural significance were pivotal for Crown governments to gain control

over those lands and resources. However, we can be different.

Investments in Indigenous language revitalization is an important

start, not just for through three years but in perpetuity. I’ve

repeatedly implored this government to do more than just a cursory

program of $30,000 each year for communities wishing to bring their

ancestral remains and items of cultural significance home from museums

around the world. What has been done? Nothing.

Finally, the communities across the province are working to

rebuild their houses of governance and culture, their houses of healing

— healing from the scars that have been caused by this provincial

government and our colleagues in the federal government. It’s totally

unacceptable that when they seek the support of the provincial

government, there’s nothing there for them. Indigenous Nations are

turning to GoFundMe to pay for new long houses, for healing centres and

schools. This is totally unacceptable.

This government must act with urgency in making all resources

needed easily accessible for the revitalization of Indigenous languages

and the repatriation of ancestral remains and items of cultural

significance, healing centres and the homes of governance and

decision-making.

[10:35 a.m.]

Reconciliation means that this government must actively support

the return of the cultures, the lands and the ways of living that were

stripped away from Indigenous People in schools like the one that is to

be deconstructed in Lower Post.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I raise my hands to the leaders of our

Kaska Dena relatives for the important work that is about to take place.

Our hearts, our thoughts and our feelings will be with you as you do

this important work in your community.

HÍSW̱ḴE

SIÁM.

Oral Questions

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON OPIOID CRISIS

AND ACTIVATION OF

HEALTH COMMITTEE

S. Bond: Six a day. That’s how many people are dying from an overdose in

British Columbia every single day. It’s a public health crisis that has

deepened under this two-term government. Every month when the numbers

come out, the response from the government is exactly the same:

hopefully, it will get better next month. It’s not good enough, which is

why both the official opposition and the Third Party have written to the

Premier to say it is time to try a new approach, only to be rejected by

this government multiple times.

Can the Premier tell us why it seems that he is the only leader in

this Legislature who doesn’t support working together across political

lines to battle this devastating crisis?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Absolutely, every way that British Columbia can stand up and

expand its response to saving lives in the increasingly accelerated drug

toxicity tragedy that is hitting our province, in every way COVID has

made it work…. In every way, we are stepping up our response, expanding

safe supply, doubling the number of supervised consumption sites,

doubling the number of youth treatment beds, adding nurse prescribers to

medication-assisted treatment. All of this is based on informed,

evidence-based advice that has been given to us by people working on the

front lines.

May I take this chance, in particular, to give thanks to people

working on the front lines of the overdose crisis and people working in

health care? Fighting two public health emergencies is extremely

hard.

As I’ve said to the members a number of times in question period,

in estimates and in correspondence, I welcome their participation. It’s

my intention to follow the very successful pattern laid down by the

Health Minister to work directly together. It’s not necessary to

establish a committee in order to lay down a very good example of

cooperation across all party lines, and I look forward to

that.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Official Opposition on a supplemental.

S. Bond: The minister should actually correct the record. She said that

they would use every single way. That’s actually not true. On one hand,

the Premier’s office has seen a massive increase in his budget to deal

with NDP caucus committees, yet he will not reactivate the Health

Committee, because “committee work is onerous, it is time-consuming…. It

takes work to read the reports, complete the reports, prepare the

report.”

That is exactly the point. On this side of the Legislature, the

opposition and the Third Party are prepared to do that work. We’ve

offered not once but multiple times, and we have been rejected by this

Premier.

Today is the last day that we are here in this place for four

months. Six people a day are dying in this crisis, and the Premier of

British Columbia stubbornly refuses to take an action that could make a

substantive difference as every party in this House takes

part in a

discussion. Getting a briefing from a minister on one subject is simply

not enough.

[10:40 a.m.]

To the Premier again, can he stand up and tell us why he is the

only leader in this chamber that is standing in the way of reactivating

the Standing Committee on Health to deal with a devastating, ongoing,

worsening crisis in British Columbia?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: I know how much the Leader of the Official Opposition appreciated

the approach of the Health Minister and Dr. Henry in working

collaboratively through the early days and throughout the COVID-19

pandemic.

I know the Leader of the Opposition was very clear on the record

in estimates last week how constructive and respectful…. I think all

British Columbians saw all parties working together in a very clear way,

so I’m appreciative to the members of the Green Party for accepting our

invitation to work in this way. I look forward to the official

opposition joining me in this fight in the manner that the Health

Minister has telegraphed and successfully laid down.

In the meantime, I’ll let all members know that I continue to draw

our basis for the tragic death toll and the need to save lives in our

overdose response by working with British Columbia’s overdose emergency

response centre, which is the umbrella over the community action teams

that act in many of your communities. Those are people with lived and

living experience and service providers. They directly feed into our

province’s overdose response plan. And there are others. We are drawing

our expertise from people on the front line, and that is informing our

response across the full continuum.

There’s more for us to do, and we’re grateful to those on the

front line, directing where we put our focus.

PREMIER’S OFFICE BUDGET

AND INTERGOVERNMENTAL

RELATIONS

M. de Jong: Apparently a good chunk of the 63 percent increase that the

Premier has given his own office budget is supposed to be for

intergovernmental relations. Is it money well spent? Well, four years

on, we are no closer to a softwood lumber agreement, and American

tariffs are poised to increase yet again.

In just a few weeks, the cruise ships will begin sailing right

past B.C. ports, ports like Victoria, as a precursor to what may become

a permanent state of affairs, where they no longer stop at those ports.

Along the way, the only thing we’ve seen from the Premier is a genuine

talent for belittling, for dismissing, for insulting the very people he

needs to work with to resolve these issues.

My question is: is the Premier getting bad advice, or is he

actually getting advice to behave more reasonably and responsibly and

just ignoring that advice?

Hon. R. Fleming: The Premier has been advocating for British Columbia and for a

pan-Canadian approach on port reopenings. He has worked with industry.

He has worked with other Premiers of provinces. He has got provinces

like Quebec, New Brunswick, P.E.I. and Nova Scotia to come to a common

position. That position is that the federal government needs to give the

certainty to the industry to resume cruise ships. It’s critically

important to our economy here on B.C.’s west coast.

But you know who the Premier takes advice from and has taken

advice from throughout this pandemic? Public health officials, who have

guided this province safely through a restart that British Columbians

are just beginning to enjoy more and more with the reduction of health

restrictions.

He has guided our economy to have the strongest recovery in the

country — a 4½ percent growth rate increase projected for next year, a

4½ percent growth rate projected for the year after, a 99 percent

recovery on jobs from pre-pandemic levels. That’s what the Premier has

been doing. That’s what the Premier has been doing in conjunction with

public health officials to keep British Columbians safe and to keep our

economy strong and prosperous and positioned to rebound and build back

better.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Abbotsford West, supplemental.

GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO

U.S. LEGISLATION ON

CRUISE

SHIP INDUSTRY

M. de Jong: Well, I don’t recall the Premier deeming the advice from those

officials worthy when it came to selecting a time for an election in the

middle of a pandemic.

Look, the Premier and the minister who just responded received,

two days ago, this letter from the Victoria Cruise Industry Alliance,

who, now confronted by legislation in the U.S. that would make permanent

changes that would no longer require those cruise ships to visit B.C.

ports, is saying this: “We cannot make the same mistake and

underestimate the threat this poses. We cannot be

dismissive.”

[10:45 a.m.]

They say this because the line from the Premier now is: “Don’t

worry. Be happy. Places like Victoria are nice, and the cruise ships

will come here anyways.”

Here’s what the industry says: “We know Victoria has something

special to offer, but we also know Alaska is the draw for those who book

a cruise. We know the cruise lines generate higher revenues during their

time in Alaska ports than they do in Victoria. We know they often feel

rushed from their Alaska destinations in order to get to Victoria for

the necessary stop in a foreign port.” In short, what the Cruise

Industry Alliance is saying is that if these cruise ships are no longer

legally required to come to ports like Victoria, in many instances, they

won’t.

When will the Premier move beyond his denial and wishful thinking

and accept the fact that by refusing to engage with the Americans and

with Ottawa in a proactive and productive way, he has allowed a

situation to develop that has put thousands of tourism jobs at risk up

and down the B.C. coast? What is he doing today to reverse the damage

that his colossal mismanagement of this issue has caused?

Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the concerns raised by the member opposite. The

Premier’s been really clear. This is a federal issue. The government has

been engaged with our colleagues in Ottawa on this issue. The Premier

has talked with the cruise industry, with Ian Robertson here.

What we do hear from this opposition is that somehow this bill

that has a sunset clause is going to result in the decimation of the

cruise industry. Well, I will tell you something. Nothing could be

further from the truth, because if they knew exactly how the cruise

industry operates, they would know that they are already planning next

year’s cruise destinations. And I can tell you, as someone who has taken

more than the occasional cruise, that my mailbox right now is full of

brochures for cruises up to Alaska. Guess what. Where are they departing

from? Vancouver to Victoria and up the Inside Passage.

The cruise industry has confidence in British Columbia and

Vancouver and Victoria, because their brochures that they’re sending out

to customers all across this province and this country are booked for

next year. There’s a world-first cruise taking place next year. Is it

taking place out of Los Angeles? No. Is it taking place out of Seattle?

No. It is taking place out of Vancouver. It is a world first: a

pole-to-pole cruise, something no other cruise company has

done.

They have confidence that the cruise industry is here in British

Columbia to stay. We are working with the federal government to ensure

it’s happening.

It’s a shame that they don’t have confidence in the communities of

this province and the neighbourhoods of this province.

LONG-TERM COVID-19 CASES

AND SUPPORT FOR

PATIENTS

S. Furstenau: As we cruise into the last day of session here before a

three-month summer break, we are, indeed, all collectively celebrating

the declining COVID-19 deaths, the hospitalizations, the overall cases,

after a period that has indelibly been marked by this disease. This

summer will bring connections and opportunities that we have missed over

the last 15 months and a slow transition to a new world.

While we celebrate these opportunities, for many British

Columbians, the effects of COVID-19 have remained and may well be with

them well into the future. A recent study published by FAIR Health found

that close to 25 percent of those who contracted COVID-19 develop

long-term symptoms. Over 145,000 British Columbians have contracted

COVID-19 since February of last year, meaning that over 34,000 British

Columbians may have or may develop long COVID. These people are

struggling with increased fatigue, brain fog, nerve and muscle pain,

high blood pressure and psychiatric issues.

[10:50 a.m.]

My question is to the Minister of Health. We are all excited for

brighter times, but COVID-19 remains a harsh reality for thousands of

British Columbians. What steps is his ministry taking to provide

long-term support for those with long COVID, and how will those supports

be offered?

Hon. A. Dix: Thank you to the member for her question. She’s quite right that

the evidence is that the situation around COVID-19 is improving in

British Columbia, but prudence is required.

That’s why we’re moving step by step with respect to easing

restrictions and will continue to provide the significant support from

public health. She is also quite right that many people — particularly

those who have been hospitalized, who represent about 5 percent of

COVID-19 patients — that group of people is much more likely to be what

are called long-haulers, who have long-term symptoms. Indeed, most of

the studies related to long-haulers are related to this group of

people.

It’s also true that COVID-19 — this is, of course, a new virus in

the world — is having long-lasting effects. That’s why we are leading in

terms of research in British Columbia, under the direction of Dr. Henry

and teams throughout health authorities, in addressing these questions.

We’ve added specialty clinics to support long-haulers, and we will

continue to do so.

In addition to that, we are using the evidence from that to the

biobank that’s established, for those who wish to participate and who

are part of that, to continue to improve the care that we need to

provide, and to continue, throughout our system of primary care, to

provide support for people.

I absolutely agree with the hon. member that this is going to be a

continuing and one of the lasting legacies over the next year — and

years to come, perhaps — that we will need to address to support those

who’ve faced the challenges of COVID-19. It gives me an opportunity,

finally, to remind everybody of the need to get vaccinated.

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Third Party on a supplemental.

COVID-19 REOPENING AND

GUIDANCE ON AEROSOL

TRANSMISSION

S. Furstenau: I thank the minister for his response and for the recognition that

a lot of people are struggling enormously with the effects, the

long-term effects, of this virus. I agree with the minister that

thinking ahead is essential. Cases may be currently declining, but we

know that COVID-19 adapts quickly and may present new challenges well

into the future.

Today Dr. Gustafson indicated that public health officials are

shifting away from emergency pandemic management towards communicable

disease control, meaning less of an all-hands-on-deck approach and more

long-term management. She said the response will change as they learn

more about the virus’s behaviour and the level of immunity among the

population over time.

This government was reluctant to admit that COVID-19 spreads

through aerosol transmission. Now they appear to accept the fact, yet in

businesses, workplaces and schools, we have not seen updated guidance to

increase and adapt ventilation. We await the updated guidance for how

contact tracing, ventilation, rapid responses in schools, COVID safety

plans and public communications will change over the course of the

coming months.

My question is to the Minister of Health. Can we expect that the

updated guidance will recognize aerosol transmission of COVID and

provide effective ways to keep people safe, particularly students and

teachers who will be returning to school in the fall?

Hon. A. Dix: I think, on behalf of members of the Legislature, I want to thank

everybody in the education system for their significant achievement — my

colleague the Minister of Education, teachers, parents, support workers,

education administrators and, of course, the students — for all they’ve

done to make this the school year it has been in British Columbia: a

school year like no other but a school year that, compared to other

jurisdictions, has been fuller and more meaningful in the lives of young

people. I think that’s an achievement that everyone in British Columbia

can be proud of.

The member refers to reluctance. What we’ve done in B.C. is follow

the guidance of public health. We have learned and adapted throughout

this pandemic. One of the significant decisions in that respect, early

on in the pandemic and then later on, was the important work of contact

tracing and supporting of people who test positive for COVID-19. B.C.

has led not just Canada but the world in the hiring, the resources we’ve

put into this and the remarkable work done by people in contact

tracing.

[10:55 a.m.]

What we are doing every day is learning about COVID-19 — every

single day. I think one of the reasons that Dr. Bonnie Henry is

considered not just a good but a great public servant is because she

learns. When things change, we adapt and we respond. We are going to

continue to do that every step of the way, based on the

evidence.

TAXATION OF COVID-19 SUPPORTS

M. Bernier: I don’t think anybody — I know on this side of the House — is

surprised at all to have learned that the Premier has bungled yet

another issue with the business support programs yet again.

We’ve received confirmation now, through a letter from the Finance

Minister, that all COVID business supports are going to be taxed. This

includes the PST rebate and the increased employment rebate. Only the

NDP think it’s a good idea now to tax a tax rebate. That’s right. Let me

say that again. We’re actually giving money to businesses who are

desperately in need of help, and the NDP is now going to tax

that.

My question is a very simple one to the Premier. Will the Premier

reverse this decision and stop taxing the much-needed emergency COVID

rebates that we are providing to businesses?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I appreciate the member raising this question. It gives us an

opportunity to reflect on all that we’ve seen throughout this pandemic

and, certainly, this session.

I appreciate the comments from all members of this House talking

about what we’ve been able to accomplish. I think it’s important to take

this moment to reflect on what we’ve been able to accomplish here in

this chamber in this session.

Of course….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, order. Members, a question was asked.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Are we still asking a question, or are we waiting for an

answer?

The minister will continue.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Thank you, hon. Speaker.

The member will know that we are proud here in British Columbia.

We have provided the highest per-capita supports for people and

businesses in this entire country. So 99 percent pre-pandemic employment

numbers. There’s so much that we can be proud of.

The original budget for the small and medium-sized business

recovery grant program was $300 million. We expect to be over $530

million in direct grants to businesses throughout this province. That

doesn’t even mention a whole host of other things that we were able to

accomplish. Hon. Speaker, $1.3 billion….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. The members will come to order.

The minister will continue.

Hon. R. Kahlon: The House Leader for the opposition has questions. He can ask the

next question.

What I want to highlight is that we have the highest per-capita

supports….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Minister.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Thank you, hon. Speaker. They seem excited today about the last

day.

We know that the work is going to continue. Even after today,

we’re going to continue to work with businesses. We’re going to continue

to work with people. We’re going to continue to work with the non-profit

sector to provide them the supports they need. Overwhelmingly, we’re

getting positive reviews, and that work will continue as the pandemic

moves on.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Peace River South on a supplemental.

M. Bernier: The NDP get into government, and they raise taxes on businesses.

Then they try to pat themselves on the back, saying, “We’re going to

give some of it back,” during a global pandemic, in a tax rebate, only

to turn around and tax it and take money away again and claw it back

from businesses.

These businesses have had to fight for supports. I’ll maybe use

the Premier’s own words. “We’re in a global pandemic, dude.” We need to

help them, not tax them further.

It’s not just small businesses. It’s child care centres as well.

The emergency child care centre funding will now be taxed by this

Premier and this government, meaning parents are going to be forced to

pay for that. Child care centres are going to be having money clawed

back through taxes after this government tries to pat themselves on the

back for helping them.

Will the Premier stop the clawback to child care centres and

reverse his decision on this emergency funding?

[11:00 a.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, I will remind the members across the way that we have

provided the highest per-capita supports for people and businesses in

this country. Over and over again, it’s recognized that because of

our….

Interjections.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Thank you, hon. Speaker.

Again, the highest per-capita supports for people and businesses

in this country. That’s reflected in….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, you asked the question. Now let the minister answer

that.

Minister.

Hon. R. Kahlon: I appreciate, hon. Speaker, that all this good news is hard for

them to hear. I appreciate that hearing overwhelmingly from all the

stakeholders on how pleased they are, all the supports we’ve been

putting in place….

The list is massive this session. A recovery benefit that helped

people paid $1.3 billion in direct supports. We had $1,000 work benefit

that was provided to 600,000 British Columbians. Two ICBC rebates to

drivers across this province. That’s on top of the $400 average that

they’re all saving on insurance.

Overwhelmingly, we’re getting positive responses on all the

financial supports that we’ve provided. They know that. They can’t quote

a single stakeholder that will say otherwise.

RESIDENTIAL ADDICTION TREATMENT

SERVICES FOR

GIRLS

T. Halford: This government has no plan for dealing with this deadly opioid

crisis. Young people are paying a high price; young people are dying.

When they seek help, the Premier and this government are clearly not

there for them.

The family of two 17-year-old girls is trying to get them into

residential treatment. These girls are willing to go, and they need to

go to a centre without boys. There’s one government-funded centre with

four beds. It’s in Victoria. These beds are reserved for youth, 16 to

24, who are pregnant or have children. There is a private facility, but

it gets zero funding from this government.

The families have asked the Minister of Mental Health and

Addictions for help. They’ve been met with silence. Will this Premier do

the right thing and help get these young women into

treatment?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: I applaud all young people, anybody across British Columbia,

struggling with addictions and mental health challenges, that steps

forward and asks for help. This is exactly the system of care that we

are trying to build — unattended work for a very long time — work that

is articulated in our long-term plan, Pathway to Hope, which we have

been building out every year since this ministry was created. This

year’s budget commitment is half a billion dollars — a historic

investment in building up that system of care — and we are not all the

way there yet.

I disagree with the member’s characterization on these particular

files. We’ve been working very hard — my ministry has. I can’t speak to

the specifics of them, because this is a matter of direct care and

privacy. But I will say that there are 14 publicly funded beds at

Westminster House.

The system of care that we’ve been building up…. We are doubling

youth treatment beds. Six of them have already been opened on Vancouver

Island. We have identified that gender-specific care is a challenge.

That is something that we are working to address, with health care

providers and the health authorities, through the historic funding to

expand bed-based addictions treatment.

The advocacy of the families is important, and we are working hard

on it.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Surrey–White Rock on a supplemental.

T. Halford: These girls don’t need applause from the minister. They need help

from this minister and this Premier, and they haven’t shown up. This

minister is in charge of a ministry that actually does not run the

ministerial programs that she continues to reference. Her ministry is

the smallest in government. It is smaller than the Office of the

Premier, which has increased by $5.7 million. That is enough for 20

additional treatment beds.

Dr. Mark Tyndall, a professor at UBC School of Population and

Public Health, says: “When you look into this ministry, I mean, it’s

basically just a front. There’s no power. There’s no decision-making.

They take quite a junior minister and make her kind of stand there and

answer questions. But she has no budget and no power.” Those are very

harsh words.

[11:05 a.m.]

Now we’ve got a ministry that’s been labelled the ministry of air.

We’ve got a Minister of Mental Health and Addictions who has openly

admitted that she has not met with all the heads of the health

authorities. How is this acceptable? It is not acceptable. Six people

are dying a day. We need this government to take control and take

control now. It has failed to do that, time and time again.

My question is to the Premier. Will he do the right thing and make

sure that these girls do not fall victim to an inadequate system that

continues to fail British Columbians, young people and families, day

after day?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: I could not disagree more with the way that the member has

characterized our government’s commitment and my ministry’s commitment

to this work. We direct the budgets. We make the Treasury Board

submissions. It was our ministry’s work and my work as minister that got

a historic half-billion-dollar investment in mental health and

addictions care through this budget cycle. Already, across all

ministries, $2.7 billion a year is dedicated.

If the member would propose that we build a parallel system of

health care delivery and artificially amputate mental health and

addictions care from the health care delivery system, he is wrong and is

not getting his advice from the people on the front line. I direct the

health authorities. I’ve met with every health authority. My ministry

talks almost daily with every health authority, all of them across

British Columbia, about how to get the best care.

The member’s party dedicated only 25 percent, in October’s

election, towards this cause. I do take my guidance from the families

and the people working on the front lines. We do have more to do, but

I’ll take no lessons from the member opposite, given his party’s failure

to build the system of care we so badly need now.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

Mr. Speaker: Members, I have the honour of presenting a joint special report from

the Ombudsperson and the Information and Privacy Commissioner, Getting

Ahead of the Curve: Meeting the Challenges to Privacy and Fairness

Arising from the Use of Artificial Intelligence in the Public

Sector .

Petitions

S. Furstenau: I rise to table a petition signed by 30,000 British Columbians, who

are asking for this government to protect remaining old growth and implement

all the recommendations of the old growth strategic review panel. I will be

electronically transmitting the petition to the Clerk’s office.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call the estimates for the Ministry of Children and

Family Development. They will be doing a vote. When that is done, it will be

followed by the estimates for the Premier’s office, which are

continuing.

In the Douglas Fir Room, I will be calling continued estimates debate of

the Ministry of Health.

In

Section C, the Birch Room, I call continued debate on the estimates for

the Ministry of Transportation.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF

CHILDREN AND

FAMILY DEVELOPMENT

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); N. Letnick in the

chair.

The committee met at 11:08 a.m.

Vote 20: ministry operations, $2,392,755,000 — approved.

[11:10 a.m.]

ESTIMATES: OFFICE OF THE

PREMIER

(continued)

On Vote 11: Office of the Premier, $14,678,000

(continued).

S. Bond: Because we have such a truncated period of time,

I’m going to move immediately to questions. I’m certainly hoping that

the Premier will be respectful of the shortened time we have, and,

hopefully, we’ll get some succinct answers.

I’d like to pick up where we left off yesterday, in terms of the

Premier’s decision to call an early election. We walked through some of

the criteria that led to that decision. We looked at the fact that

polling had been done. A program had been created called StrongerBC. We

looked at all of the factors that led to the calling of a snap election

during a pandemic.

The Premier also, at that time, cited another reason. It was the

failure to pass Bill 22, the Mental Health Amendment Act, 2020. He used

that as a reason for calling the election. I’d like to ask the Premier

directly if he remains committed to the legislation that families are

asking for to protect youth.

The Chair: Just a reminder to staff: you need your masks,

please.

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the Leader of the Official Opposition for the question

and, also, to her and the Opposition House Leader for the latitude that

has being granted to me to participate in other events this

afternoon.

I would say that we did canvass this yesterday. It was canvassed

also last September and October, throughout the campaign — my rationale,

my motivation, for asking the people what they thought. With respect to

the substance of Bill 22, I remain committed to that. I’ve made that a

priority for the minister responsible. She is consulting widely to try

and resolve the issues that were raised at the time by some members in

the community. But I’m committed to the legislation, and I’m hopeful it

will have unanimous support when it returns.

S. Bond: We’re going to explore for a few minutes, shortly, the work that

has or hasn’t been done by the Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions

and by the minister. It was a year ago in June 2020 that the government

introduced Bill 22. The government has had many months to address the

concerns that were raised about the bill and to reintroduce

it.

This is a crisis. In question period today, we discussed the fact

that six British Columbians a day are dying. This is the Premier that

stubbornly refuses to actually accept the offer in multiple letters to a

correspondence unit that apparently has received millions more dollars

to operate.

I would point out to the Premier, I have written to him multiple

times and not once, about this issue, have I received a personal

response from him about something that is critical to me and to British

Columbians.

[11:15 a.m.]

This is a crisis, and we need urgent action. Can the Premier

explain exactly why youth stabilization care legislation has not been

introduced this session?

Hon. J. Horgan: The youth stabilization act was tabled; was not likely to pass,

based on comments by the Third Party.

We have endeavoured over the past number of months to engage with

those stakeholders that expressed concerns about the substance of the

bill. I’m confident. I’ve been receiving an enormous amount of support,

correspondence from families, who share, I believe, the same view that

the Leader of the Opposition and I do — that we need to take every step

possible to protect people and do what we can to ensure that those that

are at risk have the supports that they need.

S. Bond: The Premier did note the Third Party, but as the Premier well

knows, there was a broad range of groups that raised concerns over a

year ago. This was one of the reasons the Premier said he called a snap

election. So when the legislation was paused a year ago, the government

said they would…. “We’ll take this time” — this time — “to talk to more

people.”

Can the Premier outline exactly what consultation has occurred

over the last year?

Hon. J. Horgan: We have been engaged informally in discussions with stakeholders —

those in favour and those opposed. Formal discussions will begin in

earnest, I believe, in the next number of weeks.

We’re committed to bringing the legislation back to this House,

where there can be a full and frank discussion. Again, I’m hopeful. I

believe, based on the comments from the Leader of the Opposition today,

that subject to no significant material changes in the principles that

were in Bill 22, we will have a good discussion. We’ll get back to where

we want to be.

But we are focusing on the voluntary treatment options that were

raised at that time. I know that the Leader of the Opposition will have

had similar discussions to those that I’ve had with parents who have

lost young ones to overdose deaths, and their concern that that not be

in vain, and that something be done by government to address

that.

We felt that Bill 22 was a step in the right direction. Others in

this place did not. But I’m hopeful that in due course, we will be able

to bring that back, have the discussion and get the outcome that I

believe that she and I share.

S. Bond: The Premier felt that the changes to this bill were so important

that he used it as part of his rationale to call a snap election during

a pandemic.

[11:20 a.m.]

The Premier’s words today, “engaged informally” and that “formal

engagement will take place….” The Premier knows exactly what that means,

and he should be honest with British Columbians. That means they haven’t

begun the consultation process that they said they would.

Important enough to trigger a snap election. Families devastated

across British Columbia. And yes, we’ve heard those stories. We’ve heard

them. We want to help. We want to actually work on these issues

together. So far the answer to that is a no, I would assume. Of course,

as I’ve pointed out, I haven’t received a letter to that

effect.

In estimates this month, the Minister of Mental Health and

Addictions said that the consultations have not even started. Not my

words. The minister’s words. Important enough to trigger an election.

Telling families we’re going to get there; we’re going to bring it back.

And the minister admitted — after an arduous process, I might add — that

consultations have not even started.

This is a crisis. It has been a year. Can the Premier explain

today why none of the consultation promised over one year ago has even

started? That’s with groups like the independent Representative for

Children and Youth, the chief coroner, First Nations. The list is long.

Can the Premier explain how he broke the promise to begin consultation

and bring that bill back to the Legislature?

Hon. J. Horgan: The member will know that we have been busy on this side providing

more services over the past 12 months: a new 20-youth-bed treatment

centre in Chilliwack; a 75-bed wellness centre at Royal Columbian

Hospital; low- and no-cost mental health and addictions counselling

available virtually throughout the pandemic; B.C.’s first Mental Health

and Substance Use Urgent Care Response Centre in Surrey; a doubling of

youth treatment beds, 123 in total — that’s 100 adult beds across the

province; the Foundry system, which was initiated by the previous

government and expanded by this government. We’ve done a lot over the

past short while, and there’s much more to do.

I don’t think we have a significant disagreement on this question.

I do know that there were a range of issues that were going through my

mind in the summer and fall of 2020. This was certainly one. It was a

catalyst, to be sure.

The work with Indigenous Peoples has certainly been ongoing

through the Ministry of Children and Family Development, through the

Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions, as well as outreach to those

independent officers of the Legislature for guidance and counsel.

Families, of course, have written to me in large numbers supporting the

direction, I think, that both the Leader of the Opposition and I want to

pursue.

S. Bond: Well, thank you to the Premier for that answer. I’m not even

really sure how to proceed when the Premier made a promise on an issue

that is part of responding to a crisis in British Columbia, where six

people a day are dying.

[11:25 a.m.]

He had a minister that stood up and admitted that despite her

Premier’s commitment to consultation on a critical matter…. She finally

admitted consultation hasn’t even started.

That wasn’t all the minister said. For all the talk of wanting to

work together, work across the aisle, that we all agree, and the

opposition raises these issues, here’s what the minister said during

estimates debate: “…I will not be telling the member when I plan to

finish consultations or when I plan to introduce

legislation.”

Can the Premier fill in the blanks for the public and for the

Leader of the Opposition, the Leader of the Third Party, families in

British Columbia? When will consultation start?

Hon. J. Horgan: We have been engaged in discussions with the First Nations Health

Council. They have explicitly said they’re not yet ready to proceed. I

think that it would be a surprise to no one that the events unfolding in

Tk’emlúps and Secwépemc territory has focused attention in other

directions in that community.

I also know that the Leader of the Third Party has agreed to sit

with the minister and review the state of play and take advice and

counsel from that side of the House here. I would hope that the official

opposition would join in that. I believe that would be a precursor to

the type of collaboration that we all want to see. That was certainly

the intention when I asked the minister to respond to the correspondence

from the Leader of the Opposition.

S. Bond: Important enough to be part of the rationale for calling a snap

election in the middle of a pandemic: “We have to consult. We need to

fix this. We need to respond.” Families are sending their concerns to

the Premier in large numbers, and the minister says consultation hasn’t

yet begun. Not only that. “I don’t plan to tell you when it’s going to

start.”

Again during the estimates debate, the minister said: “I am very

happy to talk with the member about the programs that we are standing

up. None of them are legislative.” Can the Premier explain why his own

minister responsible for this issue, presumably for the consultation on

this bill, presumably for responding after this was, again, another

reason that this Premier called a snap election…?

How does his own minister not even consider stabilization as

legislation? That is an important piece of the work that this minister

and ministry should be doing. The quote is: “None of them are

legislative.” I would love to hear the Premier’s explanation for that

answer.

[11:30 a.m.]

Hon. J. Horgan: Well, I did just inventory a range of initiatives that have been

underway just in the past short while — more treatment beds, wellness

centres, mental health, substance urgent response teams — none of which

required legislative change. So it’s completely consistent with what the

minister said.

Bill 22 was carefully considered by this side of the House. The

former minister did go through extensive consultation. We felt that we

were on the right track. But the earnestness of the opposition at the

time, particularly coming from the Third Party, based on leadership

groups across the province as well as some of the organizations and

individuals that the opposition leader just referenced, made it

imperative that we pause on that statutory process.

But that did not delay or slow one bit the delivery of services

and ensuring that we had in place the appropriate processes to protect

vulnerable populations, whether they be youth or adults.

S. Bond: The Premier said, on Bill 22 a year ago, that “we’ll take the time

to talk to more people.” It’s clear that has not been done.

It was so important to put a pause on the bill. It was reflected

in the Premier’s decision. He made those comments — not me or not us —

that that was one of the reasons he called a snap election, just like so

many other things. “I’m going to do things differently,” said the

Premier. “I’m going to work across political lines. I’m going to create

$10-a-day daycare.” The list goes on.

We’re in the middle of an opioid crisis, where six people a day

are dying, and words matter. Families believed the Premier when he said:

“We will consult. We’ll take a year.” I certainly hope that one of the

outcomes of this discussion is that this Premier sits down and has a

conversation with his minister, because let’s look at what else she said

in estimates. This isn’t about let’s just talk about the minister. It’s

about promises made to British Columbians — a risky pandemic election

based, apparently, on the need to deal with this bill.

When our critic for Mental Health and Addictions, who…. I very

much appreciate the work that he has done. When the minister was pressed

about her lack of action and lack of consultation on youth stabilization

care legislation, her response was: “I will simply say that I have made

a decision about priority actions within my ministry that I believe…our

budget well articulates. I will say again that the priority decision

that I made was based on what I was hearing personally from people on

the front line.”

Well, maybe the minister should have listened more carefully to

what the Premier told British Columbians before he called a snap

election. He put this bill on pause, with a promise to British

Columbians that he would consult. That was a year ago. Now we have a

minister saying: “I’ve made up my mind about what the priorities

are.”

So maybe the Premier could get up again and make sure that British

Columbians and people in this Legislature and all of the parties that

had concerns and families who are concerned…. If the Minister of Mental

Health and Addictions has chosen her priorities, perhaps the Premier

today could articulate for British Columbians where this bill is. He

should stand up and make sure that British Columbians know that he meant

what he said, because apparently the Minister of Mental Health and

Addictions has set her own priorities.

[11:35 a.m.]

Hon. J. Horgan: Again, I believe that the actions on this side of the House have

been completely consistent. We’re delivering services without the

requirement for statutory change. That’s the position of the government,

and we are committed to bringing the legislation back.

Independent officers will be consulted. The experts in the field

are ready to go in July. As I said, the First Nations Health Council is

not yet prepared to have these discussions. When they are, hopefully

before too long, we’ll get underway there.

I am very confident, and I can give the assurances today to the

Leader of the Opposition, that a variation on Bill 22 will be back

before this House for careful consideration. I’m confident, based on

what I’m hearing from the leader, that her caucus will be united in

supporting it.

S. Bond: What the Premier can be confident of is that the Leader of the

Opposition and the Leader of the Third Party have offered to work in a

transparent, public way — not with a briefing behind closed doors on one

issue — about an overdose crisis in British Columbia that’s claiming six

lives a day.

There isn’t consistency, and the Premier knows it. The minister

said consultation hasn’t started. The Premier said a year ago that it

would start. The minister says she has set priorities. Apparently, one

of them doesn’t include moving expeditiously on something the Premier

promised British Columbians and used as his rationale — one of the

issues he raised — for calling a snap election.

This isn’t just about consultation on legislation. Let’s look at

another example. Words matter. Most of the mental health addictions and

overdose programs in British Columbia run through the five regional

health authorities. Yet despite being the Minister of Mental Health and

Addictions for over six months, this is what the minister was forced to

admit the other day: “I have not met with all of the CEOs of the health

authorities yet.”

Does the Premier think it is acceptable that during a crisis of

this magnitude, which continues to get worse…? Every month the numbers

are worse than they were last year. Does he think it is acceptable that

the minister he tasked with this responsibility has yet to even meet

with the people responsible for programs in regional health authorities

across British Columbia?

Hon. J. Horgan: Well, the minister and this government are committed to delivering

services. I’m absolutely confident that the Minister of Mental Health

and Addictions is discharging her responsibilities, because it’s evident

in the creation of more treatment beds. It’s evident in the urgent

response centre that was established. It’s evident in the virtual

programs that we put in place through the pandemic.

The challenge that I think the opposition has is that for 16

years, they didn’t address mental health and addictions questions to the

extent that we have in the short time we’ve been here. I appreciate very

much that they want to now get on board, and I welcome that. I encourage

the Leader of the Opposition to follow the lead of the Leader of the

Third Party. Let’s have the minister and the two leaders sit down and

figure out where there’s an opportunity for collaboration, and let’s get

going on that.

Hyperbole on all sides is not what the public wants. What they

want is the delivery of services. We’ve been doing that, as the minister

said — services that don’t require statutory change.

The challenges of the bill that was brought forward were made

abundantly clear by a range of individuals, including independent

officers and Indigenous leadership. We’re going to focus on that. We’re

going to get that done. But there has been no shortage of other tasks at

hand that also have an impact on mental health and wellness. That has

been a priority coming out of the pandemic as well. We all know the

anxiety that people are feeling in their own homes and in their own

communities. Imagine that across five-million-plus people in this

province.

[11:40 a.m.]

We have a health challenge, of course, when it comes to opioid

addictions. We’ve been working to try and destigmatize, to try and

ensure that we are legalizing modest possession for personal use so that

we do not have people characterized as criminals because they have an

addiction to opioids. These are basic steps forward. We require, in that

instance, support from the federal government, and we’ll continue to

work on that.

There’s a whole host of other initiatives that are underway.

Prescription alternatives, for example, again have been expanded

significantly under our government, and we’re going to continue to do

that. We have a toxic drug supply. Legislation will not amend the toxic

drug supply.

What we need to do is make sure that the services that do exist

are funded appropriately. As we expand those services, as was

contemplated under the act, Bill 22, we’ll get to that place where we

have unanimity around the table, including those who were opposed in the

summer of 2020, to get the bill passed. I’m counting on support from the

opposition to do that.

S. Bond: Well, I take it that the Premier is not overly concerned, then,

that the minister, who needs to be working, on a regular basis, with

people who work on the ground, in every corner of this province, who

deal with addictions and overdose programs across this province…. He

hasn’t heard from his minister. I think, in fact, the comment was:

“Well, it’s hands-off. I don’t tell them what to do.” It’s not about

that, and the Premier knows it.

We also know that the Premier’s characterization of the past track

record of the government is also not accurate. Work was done,

significant work, often led by Dr. Perry Kendall and others who cared

about this issue, passionately. It is not a partisan issue.

It is an issue of a Premier who said he was going to do something

and hasn’t done it. There can be all kinds of excuses proffered, but the

fact of the matter was that he said a year ago that consultation would

take place. Families have been crying out for an opportunity to see work

done on this piece of legislation. The minister says: “Oh, not my

priority. I’m doing this, this and this.”

Let’s talk about the size of the ministry itself. We know that

over the last number of days I’ve canvassed, in the Legislature, the

Premier’s office budget: this year alone, $3.3 million. Let’s compare

that to the increase for the Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions —

which, I would remind the Premier, is the smallest ministry in

government. The increase was 0.18 percent. The Premier can’t stand today

and argue that it’s an effective ministry, getting all kinds of work

done, when the minister has made it clear that she doesn’t manage and

run the programs.

Now, 0.18 percent was the increase in the budget for the Ministry

of Mental Health and Addictions. I would appreciate the Premier standing

up and explaining for us the process that went into deciding that his

office would get $3.3 million and that a ministry that is tasked with

important, critical work — like trying to figure out how we’re going to

deal with six people a day dying in our province — gets 0.18 percent.

Could the Premier explain for us the process and the absolutely shocking

difference in budget increases?

Hon. J. Horgan: Again, as an experienced member of this place and an experienced

member of cabinet, the opposition leader will know that the delivery of

services is the responsibility of health authorities.

We have increased, in Budget 2021, the delivery of services for

mental health and addictions by over $500 million. This is part of a

$1.2 billion investment, over the past number of years, in the various

foundations of the Pathway to Hope, allowing real progress on true

systems of care that offer coordinated services for mental health and

substance use, as well as accelerating the response to the overdose

emergency. There’s a litany of other initiatives that are contained in

that.

[11:45 a.m.]

The office budget for the ministry is not the delivery of

services. That’s the model that we set up, and it’s working

effectively.

S. Bond: I think there’s a lot of debate, and rightly so, about whether or

not the ministry is working properly. I think that having a Ministry of

Mental Health and Addictions is important, but what’s even more

important is what gets done.

On one hand, we have the Premier outlining that this ministry

doesn’t look after service delivery — in fact, it’s the health

authorities — only to discover that the person sitting in the office

with the title minister hasn’t even talked to the health authorities

that deliver that service.

The Premier can shake his head, but the minister actually said she

hasn’t spoken to them. So the fact of the….

Interjection.

S. Bond: Well, the Premier can stand up and….

Interjection.

The Chair: Please, through the Chair. Thank you.

S. Bond: The Premier can stand up and correct the record. His minister said

that she had not spoken directly to the regional health authorities that

deliver service. I would suggest that it’s probably important that the

person who is sitting in the office with the title actually lines up

with the people delivering the services on the ground.

The Premier must feel some degree of concern. This is a ministry

that recently has been titled the ministry of air. I don’t say that in a

flippant or casual way. I actually care that something gets

done.

We have a crisis that continues to deepen under this Premier’s

leadership. It’s not just us — the Premier can shake his head — or the

media saying that this is a ministry of air. Let’s look at what

Professor Tyndall at the UBC School of Population and Public Health had

to say. This should concern the Premier. He should want to walk out of

this chamber today and fix this.

Here’s the quote: “When you look into this ministry…. I mean, it’s

basically just a front. There’s no power. There’s no decision-making.

They take quite a junior minister” — remember that these are not my

words — “and make her kind of stand there and answer questions. But she

has no budget and no power.”

Will the Premier agree today that there needs to be additional

work to ensure that the Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions is

leading, aligned, engaged in and dealing with this crisis with people on

the ground who deliver those services? Will he at least admit that there

is room for improvement and that he is committed to doing

that?

Hon. J. Horgan: Again, for those who are just turning in, British Columbia was the

first jurisdiction in the country to dedicate an individual at the

cabinet table to ensure that we were focusing on this issue. It’s been

duplicated in Ontario, with an associate minister. Again, as with the

model here, they took the template.

The health authorities deliver the services. They have always

delivered the services. To create a parallel process of service delivery

would have been counterproductive.

The objectives that we set out here are starting to be duplicated

in Ontario. Just recently Manitoba has also followed suit by putting in

place a minister responsible for mental health and addictions with a

model similar to what we have here.

The health authorities have the expertise. The minister is

engaging with the health authorities on the delivery of those services.

That’s how it happens. It goes through the authorities, as it should.

I’m confident that there’s always room for improvement in everything we

do.

I would suggest there’s also room for improvement in the estimates

process, whereby we focus on the budget estimates for the various

components of government rather than drive-by issues that were raised in

question period on one day and that had a full and frank canvassing by

the ministers responsible for the files, full and frank discussions for

the people responsible.

I am proud of what we’ve been able to accomplish. I know we have

much, much more work to do, and so do British Columbians. The best way

to do that is to start by collaborating. The overture has been made. The

overture has been made to the Leader of the Opposition and to the Third

Party. The Third Party has agreed.

Let’s sit down. Let’s figure out where we go together. That’s the

commitment that I think I would like to hear from the other side right

now.

[11:50 a.m.]

The Chair: We still have five more minutes.

S. Bond: That is an absolutely unbelievable answer. “Let’s sit down and

collaborate — like to hear about it, like to talk about it.” How about

the Premier walk back to his office and ask his recently

multi-million-dollar correspondence branch how many letters that I and

the Leader of the Third Party have sent this Premier offering to work

together in a non-partisan way?

For this Premier to suggest that issues raised in estimates are

drive-by issues, shame on him. Today the drive-by issue of the day,

according to the Premier, is talking about, with seriousness, how we

improve the services coming out of the Ministry of Mental Health and

Addictions. That hasn’t been only my concern, and the Premier knows it.

We have heard it from across British Columbia.

I take the Premier’s words seriously. I look forward to a response

to my request and the Leader of the Third Party’s request to stand up

the Health Committee, to stand up the Aboriginal Affairs Committee,

because if he means what he said in this Legislature today and before,

that is exactly what he would do this afternoon.

Hon. J. Horgan: In this year’s budget, $500 million more for mental health and

addictions — $500 million more. Twenty new treatment beds in Chilliwack.

Seventy-five wellness beds at Royal Columbian. Low-cost and, in some

instances, no-cost mental health and addictions counselling available

virtually. B.C.’s first stand-alone ministry focused on making sure that

every single day there’s someone at the cabinet table addressing these

issues.

Interjections.

The Chair: Premier, one moment please.

We’ll have order. Thank you.

Go ahead.

Hon. J. Horgan: I appreciate that we’re running short on time, hon. Chair, and I

appreciate the interventions by all members of the House during this

budget debate. But at this point, if there are no further questions, I

move the committee….

The Chair: Thank you, Premier. There’s actually a vote that I have to do

beforehand.

Are there any further questions from the opposition? Leader of

the Official Opposition, do you have a question?

S. Bond: I would like today, first of all, to thank the staff that have

supported the Premier in his estimates. We know very well how hard the

public service works in British Columbia.

I would like to suggest to the Premier that characterizing an

estimates process that brings issues that are sincerely brought, that

matter to British Columbians should hardly be characterized as drive-by

issues, and I personally find that offensive.

With that, though, hon. Chair, my last question is simply: will

the Premier today commit to activating the Standing Committee on Health

and the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs to allow for there to

be work done in a way that is transparent, that is public, that serves

the benefit of the public good?

I would remind the Premier that in his mandate letter to every

single minister in government, he said he would take good policy ideas,

and he encouraged his ministers to do the same. I would suggest there’s

an easy way to do that, and that is through the standing committee

process.

Hon. J. Horgan: I also want to thank members for participating and the staff, as

always, for support.

I just will also highlight that we had an anomaly yesterday

because of the three-House system, where the accountable Minister of

Health was on his feet and a member was asking the very same questions

of that minister that were being asked in here of the budget estimates

for the Premier. That’s the context with which I made the comment that

the member took such umbrage with.

I do believe, firmly, that the best way for us to provide services

to British Columbians, as they expect us to do, is to collaborate.

That’s why the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions has reached out,

at my request, to the leaders of both parties to sit down and to figure

out where we go together.

That appears to be inadequate for the Leader of the Official

Opposition. It seemed to be appropriate in the mind of the Leader of the

Third Party. I would suggest that the best way to get to the outcomes

that the leader wants is to sit down and talk about it, and the minister

is waiting for that overture.

The Chair: Thank you, colleagues, for the order, as we ended this

debate.

Vote 11: Office of the Premier, $14,678,000 — approved.

Hon. J. Horgan: I move that the committee rise and report resolution and

completion on the estimates of the Ministry of Children and Family

Development and, further, report resolution and completion on the

estimates of the Office of the Premier and ask leave to sit

again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:55 a.m.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported resolutions, was

granted leave to sit again.

Committee of Supply (Section C), having reported progress, was

granted leave to sit again.

Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported progress, was

granted leave to sit again.

Hon. K. Conroy moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. this

afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:56 a.m.

PROCEEDINGS IN THE

DOUGLAS FIR ROOM

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF

HEALTH

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section A); R. Leonard in the

chair.

The committee met at 11:19 a.m.

On Vote 32: ministry operations, $23,725,698,000

(continued) .

[11:20 a.m.]

A. Olsen: I’d like to first very briefly just acknowledge the herculean task

that has been put in front of the Minister of Health over the last

number of months with respect to the health crisis, the concurrent

health crises that we faced. I just wanted to acknowledge and recognize

that and recognize the skill and the work that he’s done and how the

minister has navigated these very difficult times. It’s been a very

challenging task, and I just want to raise my hands up to you, Minister.

Thank you.

I’d like to start with a question around In Plain Sight ,

the report that was commissioned, or the investigation that was

commissioned. There are many, many questions. We’ve got very limited

time, so I’m going to be moving through three or four questions here

quickly before turning the floor over to my colleague.

But I’d just like to ask the minister. I recognize that there’s a

considerable amount of work being done in the ministry and that there

are Indigenous leaders that have been put in place to help navigate that

within the ministry.

I’m just wondering if…. In recognition of the fact that dealing

with and addressing systemic racism doesn’t fall only on the shoulders

of the staff within the Ministry of Health, the Indigenous leaders that

are in place to deal with this, from the minister’s perspective, how can

he and we as MLAs and, indeed, all of public service assist those

Indigenous leaders that have been put in place to ensure the outcomes

that we are all hoping for from the In Plain Sight report are

fully realized?

Hon. A. Dix: I appreciate the comments of the hon. member.

I want to express my appreciation to the leader of the Green Party

and the hon. member. Members of the public may not know that the hon.

member, in his community, has played a significant role. He will know

the person who’s been put in charge of the In Plain Sight

recommendations, Associate Deputy Minister Dawn Thomas, who is also

essentially on leave from her position as vice-president in the

Vancouver Island Health Authority. The work that they did together in

the Saanich community is work that’s seen, and is seen these days, as a

significant advancement. That’s because of the commitment, of course, of

First Nations in this region. But I also want to specifically appreciate

the work that the member has done.

What I might do is just in general say how we’re responding to the

report, because this is ongoing. I think we use the term “emergency”

quite a bit these days in reference to the overdose crisis, of course,

public health emergency and the COVID-19 public health

emergency.

But the reason we did In Plain Sight in the middle of a

pandemic was because it was needed. I think it’s a blueprint, a road map

to make progress. I don’t think that Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond or anyone

else thinks that it fully answers every question. But in a short period

of time — the assignment in late June — a report that was comprehensive

and thoughtful was tabled November 30. That is some of the most

outstanding report work that we’ve ever seen, given the subject matter

and the quality of the report.

So it’s my task, in part, as Minister of Health to play my role in

it. I want to say that I invite the member to take part, and there will

be many occasions to do so.

On the day the report was tabled, of course, we appointed Dawn

Thomas, as I noted, as per recommendation 13 of the report. She’s

created a team of experts around her in implementing all 24

recommendations. The In Plain Sight task team is now up and

running. It involves and includes Indigenous regional representations,

co-chaired by Métis, First Nations and government

representatives.

Of course, many partners wanted to be part of the task team.

Ordinarily, I say: “Well, we want a few people.” But in fact, in this

case, we needed it to be broad, and it is.

Working with the health standards association, we’re developing a

new accreditation standard. We’re looking at Indigenous representation

on the complaint process. Each health authority is putting in place its

own plans. Some are quite well advanced, helped and directed by the fact

that each health authority now has two Indigenous representatives

nominated to it.

[11:25 a.m.]

What I would propose to the hon. member is that, because I think

he can play a very important role on Vancouver Island as we work through

our Island plan, we get together soon — with Dawn Thomas, with my deputy

minister, Steve Brown, and the member. I’d be happy to do that to see

how he can work into that process. It’s very important to me that I

provide of course, direction and assistance and support and resources to

that program, including the $45 million of new money we’re investing in

cultural safety and humility over the next three years.

It’s also important that it not be my plan, because it’s not my

plan. It’s our effort. I invite the hon. member to be part of that. I

encourage him to come with us to see what role he’d like to play in all

of that.

A. Olsen: I’ll cede the floor; my colleague has got a question.

I’d just like to say…. The key point that I’d like to raise is

that this doesn’t fall entirely on the shoulders of the Indigenous

leaders that you’ve put in this place — that every member of the public

service and every member that represents the 87 seats of our governance

and institution here plays a role. I’m definitely going to walk

hand-in-hand with the minister on this, upon invitation. I think that

the invitation goes out to the other 85 MLAs that represent the ridings

as well. As well, the entire public service needs to make that work

lighter for the Indigenous leaders that have been put in place. They’ve

been given a very tough challenge.

I’ll cede the floor and then take the floor back when given the

opportunity.

S. Furstenau: Welcome to the human pinball machine that my colleague from

Saanich North and the Islands and I live in.

I’m going to start with capacity funding for community health

networks. I’m sure the minister is very well aware of the excellent work

that the nine community health networks on Vancouver Island do, covering

all the regions from the north to the south.

The health networks have played a very key role, and I can speak

to this personally in Cowichan, in working with local governments,

Health, First Nations, community agencies, to speak with a collective

voice on regional and local health issues by facilitating dialogue and

understanding amongst citizens and stakeholders.

The community health networks’ facilitators are funded via Island

Health, with a three-year service contract. Early in their development,

some of the CHNs had access to seed funding or one-time grants that have

supported them to operate in an advanced capacity. But with increasing

community needs, particularly in the wake of COVID and the rising issues

around mental health that we’re seeing, as well as rising operational

costs and dwindling seed funding, the health networks are exploring

opportunities to build on their base funding to support all aspects of

community engagement activities and planning.

The ask that they have put forward is sustained funding of $40,000

per year, per network to provide the ability to carry out their very

valuable work. This would be a total of $360,000 per year for Vancouver

Island. Just very keen to hear the minister’s thoughts on that request

from the community health networks.

Hon. A. Dix: As you know, the Vancouver Island Health Authority has created the

Island Health community health networks. While they may have created

them, it’s communities that sustain them through their work. Currently,

as the member indicated, funding is provided through regional districts

to support health networks across Island Health, but I’m interested in

the member’s suggestion.

I know I’ve received requests from the community health networks.

Those requests are not reflected in the budget that we’re passing this

year, but they’re certainly something to consider. In addition, I note

that the province provides $1 million in funds to the B.C. Healthy

Communities society to support such activities, grants, workshops,

webinars, training tools and re­sources to local government and

Indigenous communities to enhance capacity and healthy community

planning. That’s another way in which we support it, but certainly, I

take the member’s comments as a representation. I’ll certainly review

that request.

S. Furstenau: I’m going to stay in Cowichan a little bit here. We have some very

specific needs in Cowichan that we’ve been hearing about from

constituents and from health practitioners.

Specialized eye care in Duncan. We’ve received queries about this

from the very beginning, 2017, but there is a very hard time for people

to get access to retinal injections.

[11:30 a.m.]

We also have a backlog — and I’m sure that this is replicated

widely — for MRI capacity in Duncan. We have very limited programs and

positions for psychiatrists in the Cowichan Valley.

I’m just wondering if the minister can speak to these needs that

we are seeing in a community where I think the demographic trend is

continually seeing the population get older and older and very much in

need of these kinds of services.

Hon. A. Dix: I think one of the most important things that we can do and are

doing is, of course, building a new Cowichan District Hospital. This is

important, I think, for recruitment as well in the region. When you have

outstanding health facilities…. Those are important for health

professionals to want to come and to be in those hospitals, especially

since such health facilities are available elsewhere. We’re building

them all over the place. So that’s a significant and, I would say,

massive investment.

But more immediately, I think the development of the Cowichan

Valley PCN has been important. It was done in consultation with local

divisions of family practice. That addresses in communities…. Those

proposals originated in the community. Then they’re approved —

significant funding, including 36 FTE primary care resources in the

Cowichan Valley PCN. That’s a significant step that’s

broader.

With respect to MRI and surgery and access to MRI and surgery,

what’s happened on Vancouver Island is transformative, I would say. I

received correspondence from the member about a particular case with

respect to a hip and knee replacement, I think. It was a hip

replacement, I’m thinking, of a constituent of hers.

On Vancouver Island, just to give a sense, the hip and knee cases

waiting have been reduced, under the plan we put forward, from 2,900 to

1,600. That’s significant for people on Vancouver Island. The member

will know we’ve gone from 174,000 MRIs across B.C. to 250,000 — even in

the year of COVID — in the last few years. So wait times for MRIs on

Vancouver Island…. Vancouver Island’s record on surgeries and MRIs is

the best of all.

I’ll certainly look at the situation directly in Cowichan. But

those services, more broadly, including cancer services and diagnostic

services that have been brought to Victoria for the first time — those

really provide better care.

There is a key aspect of our primary care networks. It is to

provide not just physical health care but mental health care. Those

investments are there, and the proposals from communities have

consistently reflected that. It’s the reason we started….

It meant that it took a little longer, but we started with

proposals from local divisions of family practice and communities in

developing the PCNs. They reflect different interests, and you see

varieties of them in rural and remote communities against urban

communities. I’d be happy and I know the primary care staff would be

happy to provide a detailed briefing on the progress of the primary care

network, but I think it reflects the needs of the people in the

community.

We need a health human resources plan in the province. Many of the

services, in all areas…. It’s most, I think, acutely felt right now in

mental health services, because historically that area has not been

provided needed levels of service. We’ve seen very significant additions

to that. I don’t want to get into the broad decisions about funding and

mental health, but per-capita increases in mental health spending have

increased 2½ times per year and outstripped the rest of the Health

Ministry budget — as they should, given the circumstances.

Those challenges in terms of health human resources are going to

continue to grow, particularly for people who work in mental health and

addictions care, both at the level of psychiatrists but also across all

of the professions and workers who work with people in mental health and

addictions.

I think that what we’re doing in Cowichan is very exciting in the

Cowichan Valley, especially in primary care. The advent of team-based

care is very important. The addition of the hospital and all the other

services we’re talking about is important. But we have to continue to

add to those services, because the goal of having a hospital is not for

people to be in hospital. The goal for a hospital is to be there if

people need hospital care. The goal is to keep people well in their

day-to-day existence. I think we do that by enhancing a primary care

system that addresses physical and mental health, and that’s the intent

of the primary care network.

[11:35 a.m.]

S. Furstenau: Along that vein, the minister will know that we’ve been proposing

to incorporate psychologists and, hopefully, eventually a wider range of

mental health professionals and carers into our Medical Services Plan

approach to medical care in B.C. Can the minister just speak to…? When

he speaks about team-based care — recognizing that he’s just spoken to

the need and recognition for mental health care to be part of that…. Can

we see a growing number of these team-based care primary networks

include psychologists, for example, that would be covered so that people

can have that timely access to mental health care?

Hon. A. Dix: Certainly, in our primary care networks…. These initiatives come

from the community, so you get a sense of who the partnership is in her

areas — of course, Island Health, the Ministry of Health, the Cowichan

Valley division of family practice, the First Nations Health Authority,

Cowichan Tribes, numerous First Nations and the Cowichan Communities

Health Network. Those groups have come together to sign together this

effort to improve primary care.

Frequently this has been the case — for example, in Langford. It’s

the case in the PCN in the Tri-Cities–New Westminster area. We’ve seen

significant resources — in that case, directing resources to a

non-profit to enhance counselling services because that was what came

forward through the PCN process. The proposal came forward. That was our

first one approved. That’s why I recognize it so much.

So I think there is an important opportunity to expand those

services. I know that the member has a proposal around MSP. It’s a

little different, I think, that proposal, than what we’re proposing in

team-based care. We’re proposing building teams and communities that

provide a whole range of health services. And to a degree…. And there is

a big debate about MSP as the vehicle for that and fee-for-service as a

vehicle for that. The fee-for-service system — people are often derisive

of it because it’s the existing system. But it has served us well in

many respects.

We have a fee-for-service system that we’re trying to develop with

a fee-for-service system and a team-based care system that combines

fee-for-service with people who are essentially paid on salary. That’s

the challenge of primary care networks in many communities. You have a

group of people who are paid for through fee-for-service and a group of

people who are paid for through salary and providing other

services.

But the effort to increase primary care resources for mental

health on the ground is significant. I think it’s fully entrenched in

our primary care network proposals. And I take seriously the proposal

about MSP access for counselling. I take it seriously, but I see very

significant investments happening in team-based primary care.

I’m not sure that expansion of the MSP system, given the nature of

the MSP system, is where we’re likely to go. I’m not dismissive of it,

but I don’t think that that’s where we’re likely to go. I think if we

were to have it…. As we have more resources, we’re going to be

continuing to expand what I think is a transformative model of care

across the range of care, understanding that people with mental health

issues have the same variety of issues — or not the same variety but as

much a variety of issues — to deal with as people with physical health

care, so we have a range of services for one, and we’ll have a range of

services for the other.

S. Furstenau: I’ll do one quick follow-up and then pass it back to my colleague

from Saanich North and the Islands.

Just on that, I think the vehicle for achieving the outcome I

would leave to the experts, in a way. But I think the outcome, the goal,

would be that somebody would be able to access mental health care — you

know, a psychologist — in the same way that they can access a doctor if

they have an injury or an illness and be able to not have the cost of

that access be an impediment to being able to seek that care in a really

timely way.

The proposal that we’ve put forward, working with the

psychologists association, is really, absolutely incorporating the

psychologists into the primary care network and having the psychologists

be able to be part of whatever way that they are billing or being paid

for by the health care system, as opposed to the patient seeking that

mental health care having to pay for that up front, which is, as we

know, a very significant impediment to a lot of people seeking

particularly psychological care that can really benefit them with very

few touches with that psychologist.

[11:40 a.m.]

It’s that outcome — that those primary care networks really do

have that stable access to psychologists and then ultimately to a

variety of mental health care practitioners who can support

people.

Hon. A. Dix: I’ll just say, in addition to that, that I think sometimes some of

the changes that have been made as a result of COVID-19 and the

development of virtual care are very helpful here as well, very helpful

for people addressing mental health issues.

There’s a tendency, I think, for those of us — I’m not suggesting

this is the case for the member — who come upon these issues for the

first time, who don’t treat and support people with mental illness, to

think, in our mind’s eye, what care is. A lot of care can be developed

virtually through resources that are provided to people, as well as more

direct care and then, of course, acute care. There’s a range of care

that’s made available.

Some of the advances that have been made in recent times are

important. Part of it, as well, I think, is the need, across the range

of services, for doctors and nurses who are there in communities to be

more equipped and better equipped to handle mental health and addiction

issues. In British Columbia, there was an organization started in the

1990s, called MACU, at the University of British Columbia, which really

works with primary care doctors across the province in advanced

education. There’s an organization called CARMHA that works out of Simon

Fraser University that does the same thing.

I think the whole system…. There’s a tendency to look at this in a

block: “We’ve got to deal with it this way.” Actually, we have to deal

with it comprehensively. That’s why team-based care is important. We

also need our extended primary care operations to be able to respond to

mental health issues better. That involves ongoing education and

supports that are available to primary care doctors, to nurse

practitioners, to nurses, to health sciences professionals and to others

to help and support people where they are at that time.

If I’m presenting to my primary care doctor and I have issues that

may be physical health issues or mental health issues, we have an

obligation to ensure that those doctors are prepared for that, able to

address that and deal with that. Overwhelmingly and significantly, they

are. This evolution has taken place over 25 years. It’s where, I think,

telehealth and other things can also support, on the ground, primary

care doctors in, say, Fort St. James, Vanderhoof or Fort Nelson to

provide for and support people who present with such issues — in their

offices, typically. That’s what we need to do as well.

A. Olsen: Just a question about the Lady Minto Hospital emergency room

extension project that is currently underway. I’ve written the minister

on this. I believe the ministry is aware of my advocacy on this. Just

very quickly, Lady Minto Hospital also serves as the de facto walk-in

medical clinic for my constituents on Saltspring Island. In fact,

Saltspring Island is the largest community without a walk-in medical

clinic. There are 11,000 full-time residents. The population of

Saltspring has quintupled since the current Lady Minto Hospital opened

in 1958.

While Island Health acknowledges that there is need for

improvements, they’ve entered into a memorandum of understanding with

the hospital foundation to design and build a new emergency department.

The foundation is responsible for 100 percent of the capital costs, and

Island Health has agreed to 100 percent of the operating

costs.

I think this will be an example of a community who is being

overlooked by the Ministry of Health. I note the minister has made a lot

of announcements for capital investments. I think that it’s been framed,

unfortunately, that the community is all too happy to fundraise for this

hospital expansion project, this emergency room expansion project,

although I think that that’s the wrong frame. The reality is that this

community is being forced to fundraise entirely for the capital costs of

this project, unlike many communities across the province represented by

members from all across the legislative chamber.

[11:45 a.m.]

I’m just wondering if the minister and the ministry could

contribute to the capital infrastructure improvements that are so

greatly needed on Saltspring, not only for the emergency room but, as

well, for the inevitability of a walk-in. They might not be going to an

emergency room in an another community, but — because Saltspring don’t

have that walk-in clinic or an urgent primary care centre — this

hospital ends up being that service as well.

Hon. A. Dix: The Lady Minto Hospital expansion project has been approved and is

proceeding. It is fantastic news. The member isn’t quite right. The

foundation is contributing a portion. The capital regional hospital

district is providing the balance of capital funding. We’re grateful to

both. It’s exciting to see it go ahead.

Obviously, we’re supporting operating funding, which is, over

time, the most significant part of the funding that Island Health has.

This is just fantastic news. I would like to, at length, describe the

deficiencies of the current ED, the emergency department, and all the

things that are happening. I just want to thank the people of Saltspring

Island for having been part of this. It’s going to improve care on

Saltspring Island. It makes it easier, as we’ve said in the case of

Cowichan, to recruit people. It’s going to make care better. I just

couldn’t be more excited to say that it’s been approved and it’s

proceeding.

And I’ll say to the member, if I could — because this is the last

answer, I think, in this morning session; I’ve been given the note

saying that I have to move the motion and everything else — that I think

there’s something that he and I need to do together, because

three-quarters of his constituency leads British Columbia in

vaccinations.

He will know that the community health service area involving the

other islands is at 88 percent. Sidney is at 87 percent. North Saanich

is at 86 percent. Saltspring Island is not doing badly, but it’s at the

provincial average. What I’d ask him to do is to continue to push

immunization on Saltspring Island with us, because I think Saltspring

Island can’t be left behind. The rest of his constituency is leading

B.C. That average is not good enough for Saltspring Island, and we need

to raise immunization levels there.

I look forward to working together with him to see that that

happens. Perhaps we can have a little internal Saanich North and the

Islands competition to see those immunization rates come up. It’s great

news for everyone. I thank him for his support of the Lady Minto

project, which is going to make health care better on Saltspring Island.

I just can’t be more excited to speak about that project. I wish I had

more time.

I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to

sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:48 a.m.

PROCEEDINGS IN THE

BIRCH ROOM

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF

TRANSPORTATION

AND INFRASTRUCTURE

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section C); D. Coulter in the

chair.

The committee met at 11:18 a.m.

On Vote 43: ministry operations, $948,948,000

(continued) .

M. Lee: I appreciate that we’re back for this final day of estimates

process. To the minister and his team, thank you for their work in the

last number of days to address the questions that the members of our

opposition caucus as well as the Green Party — the Third Party — have

had.

In terms of topics, we have four of my colleagues this morning.

That follows the outline that we provided yesterday morning. At this

point, I’d just like to invite the member for

Kelowna-Mission.

R. Merrifield: Thank you so much to both the minister for hearing my question as

well as to the critic for allowing me this time and space this

morning.

It’s no secret that the Okanagan Valley is one of the

fastest-growing areas in B.C., and since 2014, the Okanagan has actually

grown over 2 percent per year. Additionally, Kelowna is the

fastest-growing municipality in B.C. as well as the fourth in

Canada.

Over the next 20 years, forecasted growth is for an additional

64,000 individuals into the city of Kelowna alone, never mind the

Okanagan Valley.

[11:20 a.m.]

Much of that growth is happening with younger populations, because

the 25- to 40-year-olds are one of the highest and fastest-growing

demographics. With this growth, regional transportation absolutely needs

to be a priority.

There are previous provincial committees on regional aspects of

transportation primarily on providing future corridors, other crossings

and bypasses for transportation related to goods that need to actually

go through the Okanagan rather than just simply being delivered to the

Okanagan. Furthermore, there are actually opportunities for alternate

forms of transportation that will require these vital corridors in the

future.

Could the minister give an update on where these conversations are

at, if active committees are taking place and on what will be done for

the future on a regional aspect of the Okanagan Valley?

[11:25 a.m.]

Hon. R. Fleming: Thank you to the member for the question and the

preamble around

the growth challenges that Kelowna and other parts of the Okanagan

region are facing — and the opportunities that go with that.

Our ministry works quite closely with Municipal Affairs and cities

like Kelowna and local governments throughout the region. In Kelowna,

specifically, we’re working with them on what’s called integrated

transportation and development services. So looking at shaping some of

that growth, new housing starts, new commercial and businesses to

enhance and maximize transit connections is really the idea behind that.

Those are very positive, collaborative discussions between the province

and local government.

By way of update as well, in terms of an overall vision for the

region, the Central Okanagan integrated transpor­tation strategy

is nearing completion. This was the Ministry of Transportation and

Infrastructure working with local governments and regional districts on

a number of forward-looking regional priorities. That was, again, a very

collaborative process between local government and our ministry. It

started in late 2020, so done virtually in the middle of the pandemic.

It’s completion is expected next year, in 2022. My understanding is that

it’s substantially complete, but a technical review of some of the

findings and aspirations that are in that strategy is part of the

process. That’s the next phase of that process.

Essentially, we’re on the same page with local government in the

region — that the ministry wants to not just be about building roads in

cities like hers — looking at how we can expand active transportation,

how we can expand public transit options in communities to reduce

congestion and create a more livable Okanagan region.

The last thing I would say, too, is that B.C. Transit has expanded

some intercity connections in the region. I’m sure the member is aware

that prior to the pandemic, a service was initiated connecting, via B.C.

Transit, Penticton and Kelowna. That was a twice-daily, round-trip

service on weekdays. The current plan for B.C. Transit is to expand that

starting in January 2022 to more frequent service and those kinds of

connections.

Again, a number of communities, Vernon among them, have really

good public transit systems. They need intercommunity connections, so

that’s a new area of focus for B.C. Transit systems that are in her

region.

R. Merrifield: Thank you to the minister for the answer. I look forward to seeing

the report as it comes out in 2022 and hope that it will cover off many

of the future transportation needs of the community.

Additionally, I also agree with the minister and would echo that

the intercity connectedness is really the priority. That, within each of

the city centres, there’s transit, and transit gets dealt with on an

ongoing basis. But it’s really looking at the entirety of the Okanagan

Valley and the region and how we connect together to really connect

those services that are found within each of the communities.

With that, I will conclude my comments and my remarks and turn it

over to the next colleague. Thank you so much for your time.

B. Stewart: To the minister and his staff: thanks very much for having the

time to answer questions on an important area.

[11:30 a.m.]

I really have three areas, and I know our time is limited. I

wanted to speak to…. The first item is to do with the reopening in the

interior of British Columbia, not just the Okanagan. It goes back to an

announcement on May 17 done by the province and the federal government

on an expansion and investment in avalanche control, more for the

underserved areas.

But the question that the tourism industry continues to ask and

wonder about is the choice of the current method — which is considered

to be somewhat passive, using charges dropped by helicopters in the

Coquihalla — versus some of the other corridors, such as the Three

Valley Gap, that are using more modern technology — that is, recent

developments.

I just wondered if the minister can comment if there are any

planned upgrades for avalanche safety in the Coquihalla to improve the

challenges when heavy snowfall events occur. I know it’s changed over

the years, but tourism operators throughout the winter season are

desperately wanting to make certain that best-