March

28, 2001 RESOURCE

ESTIMATES COMMITTEE

The Committee met at 4:00 p.m. in the House of

Assembly.

CHAIR (Mr. Walsh): I would like to call the

Committee to order.

Before we begin, I would like to deal with the minutes

from our last meeting. The minutes consist of the following items: a list of the

individuals who attended, and who attended on behalf of the Department of

Labrador & Aboriginal Affairs. The Committee reviewed and approved, without

amendment, the estimates of expenditure of the Department of Labrador and

Aboriginal Affairs. On a motion by Mr. Ottenheimer, seconded by Mr. Wiseman, the

minutes of the previous meeting were adopted; and, on a motion to adjourn, that

motion was adopted as well. Are there any errors or omissions?

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: I would like to take this opportunity to

welcome the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, the minister and his

officials.

For the record, Minister, I would ask if you would be

kind enough to either introduce your officials or have your officials introduce

themselves. Then, before we begin, for the sake of the record and Hansard, I

would ask that Committee members do likewise. Also, during discussions when you

are speaking, again for the sake of Hansard, the new voices that may not be as

recognizable, I would ask you to identify yourselves when the red light comes

on, if you are going to participate in answering questions.

With that in mind, Minister, if you would like to

begin with an opening statement, or however you would like to proceed, by all

means do so.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It is a pleasure to be in front of the Committee

again, in this new role as Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation. To my

right is Vic Janes, Assistant Deputy Minister for Tourism and Recreation. To my

left is Clyde Granter, Deputy Minister of the Department of Tourism, Culture &

Recreation. Further to my left is Heather MacLellan, Assistant Deputy Minister

for Culture and Heritage. Also further down is Catherina Kennedy-Kelly, Director

of Communications. Behind us is Gerry Crocker, Director of Financial & General

Operations. These are very important people, as a matter of fact.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

I would ask the Committee members if they would

introduce themselves for the sake of the record as well. Perhaps, Yvonne, we can

start with you.

MS JONES: Yvonne Jones, MHA for the District of

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Ross Wiseman, MHA for Trinity

North.

MR. ANDERSEN: Wally Andersen, MHA for the

beautiful riding of Torngat Mountains.

MR. TAYLOR: Trevor Taylor, MHA for The Straits &

White Bay North.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: John Ottenheimer, MHA for St.

John's East.

MR. E. BYRNE: Ed Byrne, MHA for Kilbride.

CHAIR: Thank you, Committee members.

Minister, if you would like to make a statement, we

will then go to the Committee members.

Just for the record, we have established a rule that

we will go five minutes each, although normally it would be ten minutes.

However, we have pretty well pushed that aside and allowed some freewheeling

discussion, as long as it stays close to the estimates. Government members of

the Committee have pretty well held back and allowed the other members to

proceed as much as they would like.

Minister.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have a very short opening statement, but I would

just like to do a quick overview. The tourism part of our department gets a lot

of focus and is getting a lot of support. There is a great deal of developing

going on in tourism in our Province. There has been a lot of good work done in

the last three or four years in particular with a number of different events,

but also a major focus on the major types of icons that we are trying to promote

as a Province to our different markets. It is working very well, and we are

looking at more innovative ways to make our advertising better and to also get

the message out. So, on the tourism side we see a lot of development activity

occurring in rural Newfoundland and Labrador and also in our major urban

centres. I see it very much as a reawakening of our people out there. There is a

lot of volunteer activity in the number of regions that are trying to develop

tourism plans in those areas, and it is working out very well.

Again, in culture, we are looking at a cultural

industry that is developing. We have a strategy now that has been put in front

of us by the cultural industry's committee that was developed in the last

twenty-four months. This is being looked upon now as a cultural industry and is

getting a lot of attention by both levels of government and also by the people

themselves.

On the heritage side, the same thing is occurring. Our

heritage associations are expanding and developing, and we are trying to support

them as they grow and as they help bring forward the heritage of our Province,

which is again a great tourism attraction to our place.

Recreation has seen a lot of development in the last

number of years. There is excellent development of recreational facilities in

the Province. Of course, the winning of the World Junior Curling Championships

recently just highlights the talent level that we have in this place. There are

other examples of it, but that is an excellent example of what can happen. So,

between the human resource development with our recreation programs that we are

doing with young athletes around the Province, along with the physical

infrastructure that has been developed in the last few years, both in this city,

in this region, and across the Province, there are a lot of positives occurring

there.

This portfolio now has the Wildlife Division. I think

Jim Hancock is now with us. Jim is our Director of Wildlife. Our science part of

wildlife has moved in with us, along with inland fisheries which has also moved

over, and we believe that will be a good fit for this department, because we

also have the Parks Division in our department here. Parks and Wildlife will go

well together. We believe it will help promote both in the future.

Also, the Film Development Corporation has been

transferred over. We have seen an increase there on the film development side in

the last two or three years. We are looking at, for example, The Shipping

News this year, a fair bit of work being done here on that front, and also

other films looking at our Province. We will be working with the Film

Development Corporation to expand their activity.

Also, the Cruiseship Authority is an area we are

working on, and that authority was set up in legislation through the House of

Assembly. That Cruiseship Authority is again expanding the ports of call in this

Province. We will have a lot more to say about that in the future.

I will just leave it there. It is a very upbeat

portfolio with a lot of room to develop opportunities in the Province for our

people. I look forward to observations and questions from the members of the

House.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

To begin the process, I would ask the Clerk if she

would move the first allocation.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: So moved.

Members of the Committee? Okay, if there are no

questions I will move the estimates now.

Mr. Ottenheimer.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I just have several questions, actually. One is found

on page 153 of the Estimates, 2.1.02., under Marketing Agreements. I wonder,

Minister, if maybe one of your officials could perhaps elaborate on the nature

of these agreements and who we are, in fact, in agreement with, in the

expression of what tourism means in this Province and the benefit that we, as a

Province, derive?

MR. K. AYLWARD: That is under 2.1.02.?

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Yes.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Under that - and I will ask our

deputy or ADM if they want to comment there - is the Atlantic Canada Tourism

Partnership with the Atlantic Provinces to promote Atlantic Canada. I think this

has been struck up because we see that there are some synergies between the four

provinces that we can promote for the 2 million people of Atlantic Canada. This

is an initiative that is fairly new. It is into some of the international

markets and we are working with ACOA on that front. It is a new initiative. It

is separate from our own provincial marketing campaign that we do, that tries to

attract people directly to here.

Maybe, Vic, you want to comment?

MR. JANES: Sure. I will add this: this particular

agreement that is being referred to there is an Atlantic agreement, so all four

Atlantic Provinces are involved with this. It is through this particular program

that we have been able to identify the resource, collectively, to get into

markets such as Germany and the U.K. In fact, with the current agreement, which

was just signed this past year for a three-year period, we will begin to move

into some marketing in the northeastern U.S. as well.

It is an Atlantic collective, really, that is

happening here, and by pooling the resources with support through ACOA and

Tourism Atlantic, which is an ACOA unit, we are able to get into markets that

our budget alone would not allow us to do. You probably realize that our market

is primarily focused on Ontario and the Maritimes, itself, and a little bit of

northeastern U.S., so this is an agreement that allows us to go a little further

and do some marketing outside of the immediate region.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: You say the initiative is fairly

new?

MR. K. AYLWARD: Yes, fairly new.

MR. JANES: The current agreement was just signed

this past year and it is a second three-year agreement, the one just concluded,

so we are into a new agreement with a little bit of change from the previous one

inasmuch as this northeastern U.S. is going to be a prime focus for us this

time.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I have a question as well with

respect to the Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation, which I

also recognize to be a relatively new initiative. Maybe, Minister, again, one of

your officials perhaps can share some commentary on that with particular

interest on page 156 under heading 3.1.06., where it talks about $1 million

being allowed for loans, advances and investments. Are these advances given by

the Province, or are they of a grant nature, a loan nature? If they are of a

loan nature, what sorts of security are put in place as a protection?

MR. K. AYLWARD: Well, there are two pieces to the

program. It has been operating for the last couple of years. Part of it is a tax

credit program where you have to show that you are going to spend so many

dollars and then we match that up to a point. I think it is about and 80/20

split - I will get the clarification from the officials - but it is a tax credit

investment program.

On both fronts we have been able to - and these are

similar to other provinces. I believe that right now on the tax credit front we

are offering a very competitive rate across the country to try to attract films

to the Province. We went from $2 million worth of film work to $20-plus million

in the last couple of years, through the Film Development Corporation, and we

anticipate that to rise further. We are creating more demand through the

corporation, its marketing activity and networking for the program, so we do

have a report that we could provide that shows the economic benefits; for

example: the number of jobs created, contribution to the economy.

The program is working very well. We are getting

bigger demands on the program and that is an issue that we are going to have to

look at in the near future. I know it is a tax credit on one piece, and the

other piece is an equity program. It is part of equity, so we go up to a certain

percentage on that front. Maybe I can get some further comments on it from my

officials. It is relatively new over to us, but those are the two basic pieces:

equity and tax credit. We can provide more detail, if you want. It is working

very well.

We are taking applications for extras in The

Shipping News , and stuff like that.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: From anyone?

MR. K. AYLWARD: From anyone, yes.

MR. E. BYRNE: The former Premier was in the last

film. Do you think we will see the Tourism Minister in this one?

MR. K. AYLWARD: It is a good possibility - and his

friends.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I have another question but it is

outside the tourism area, so I will leave my colleagues to finish (inaudible).

MR. K. AYLWARD: Before we go, on the Film

Development Corporation, one of the areas we are going to be looking at is

wildlife films. We are going to use our Wildlife Division and some of our

expertise there to go look and see if we can focus on international wildlife

films. National Geographic and others are interested. That is an angle

that we will be pursuing.

Thank you.

MR. E. BYRNE: Minister, under what head would the

Marconi celebrations be? Under the tourism head on page 153? Where would it be?

MR. K. AYLWARD: That is a good question. The

Marconi celebrations -

MR. E. BYRNE: The celebrations that have been

ongoing for the last number of years, from Cabot to Soiree to Vikings to Marconi

this year, would they be under 2.1.01 on page 153, at the top of the page there

on Tourism?

MR. CROCKER: The funding for next year has been

advanced to the corporation. That is why there is no budget in there this year.

The $84,000 that is left there for 2001-2002 is actually for VICs, but

ordinarily that is where the grant amount would be indicated. The funding for

Marconi has already been paid out so there is no funding allocated in the next

fiscal year.

MR. E. BYRNE: How much was paid out for Marconi?

How much was paid out?

MR. CROCKER: Just recently there was $2.4 million,

and there is also -

MR. E. BYRNE: So that is not contained in here

though is it?

MR. CROCKER: Pardon?

MR. E. BYRNE: Where is that contained in here in

terms of Marconi celebrations?

MR. CROCKER: It was paid out in the 2000-2001

fiscal year, just recently. It was paid out of funds that were available in the

Department of Industry, Trade and Rural Development.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay, fair enough. Is it here

anywhere in terms of how that money is broken down? The $2 million-odd that you

just talked about, is it contained anywhere in the document here of how that is

broken down: salaries, promotion, travel? The normal expenditures that -

MR. GRANTER: You will not find the specific break

out of the expenditures in this budget, that would be contained in the budget of

the Celebrations Corporation.

MR. E. BYRNE: Right. So we are in a position now

where we are unable to ask any questions on Marconi because there is no

information here really, in terms of - I am not trying to be problematic here or

adversarial. I had enough of that today already. An important point, I guess, is

that in every other aspect of the Department of Tourism, it is outlined here:

salaries, benefits, transportation, professional services, purchased, those

sorts of things; where that has already been given we do not have an opportunity

then as a Committee to ask direct questions on that because it is not here in

terms of why it would be this compared to last year. That would be correct,

wouldn't it?

MR. GRANTER: Yes, that is correct.

MR. E. BYRNE: Why, minister?

MR. K. AYLWARD: I just want to say that we can get

a breakdown. I thought it might have been here but anyway, we can get a

breakdown of the budget. There is no problem for us to provide it to you within

the next day. We will get it for the Committee and if there are any questions

further (inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay, fair enough. Could we have it

like it is listed here: here is what is estimated for this year, here is what

was budgeted last year, and revised, so that it is like in the Estimates format

for ourselves. Would that be okay?

MR. K. AYLWARD: Yes, no problem. It is public

money so -

MR. E. BYRNE: I just have a couple of quick

questions on the Tourism side before we get to the other side. On page 152,

heading 1.2.02.03, Administrative Support, Transportation and Communications,

there is an increase in the budget there of a little over $300,000. Does that

involve more promotion or - just a quick explanation, please?

MR. K. AYLWARD: That would be related to the

transfer of the Wildlife Division into the department.

MR. E. BYRNE: All right, sure enough. I guess

Purchased Services would explain the same reason, because your department has

expanded and taken other areas in?

MR. K. AYLWARD: Yes.

MR. E. BYRNE: Salaries under Tourism, 2.1.01.01,

they have increased from $1,440,200 - this in on the top of page 153, minister.

There is a small increase there up to $1,694,200. Are there any special

initiatives as a result that would see that increase in Salaries? There are

probably four positions there, I would imagine, four or five is there?

MR. K. AYLWARD: There is a new director for

product development within Tourism, and I think there is a team being

established. Vic, do you want to comment?

MR. JANES: That is correct. We are referring to

this unit as a strategic product development unit. It is a unit that will be put

together with a director located, in fact, in Corner Brook with some staff that

will be regionalized throughout the Province. They will be working towards

identifying strategic directions that we need to be channeling our industry in

and strategic directions that we need to be applying to our funding partners to

say: look, if you are going to fund Tourism then strategically, here are the

types of things that we need to do. For the past five or six years our focus

within Tourism has been marketing. That has been it, the sum total. I would like

to state that we have reached a point where our marketing is getting ahead of

our product development and I do think, as a result, a bit of focus is going

towards tourist product development.

MR. E. BYRNE: In terms of product development; it

is a good initiative because it cannot be focused entirely on marketing. On the

one hand, you do not have any control over how you develop your product in

marketing obviously, so I am surprised that it is not there already.

That team is already in place and operating out of

Corner Brook. Would that be fair to say, or is about to be put in place?

MR. JANES: It is about to be put in place. In

reality, what will happen is that there are four new positions, and in addition

to those four new positions there are also three people currently functioning on

a regional basis and providing some level of support, so they will be

incorporated in it as well. There is some activity currently in our department

that will be folded into this new unit, but the increase here does reflect the

fact that there are several new positions that will be put in place.

MR. E. BYRNE: I am safe to assume that these are

not contractual, that these are long-term positions that have gone through the

Public Service Commission, et cetera?

MR. JANES: Correct.

MR. E. BYRNE: On page 154, under 3.1.02.06, Arts

and Culture Centres, the

section there dealing with Purchased Services, it is up

from $940,800, which was down from the actual budgeted amount - and again, this

is more out of a point of information and interest more than anything else. What

would be the types of services that you are talking about there in terms of

purchasing on behalf of Arts and Culture Centres - could you just elaborate on

that

section for me?

MR. K. AYLWARD: Yes, we have had a request from

the Arts and Culture Centres for an increase in funding for a variety of

different initiatives. I will ask Heather MacLellan to comment on that. It is

mostly programming, I think; but go ahead, Heather.

MS MACLELLAN: We have reached a stage in our

cultural evolution where we believe that our money, up to this point, has been

going into primarily paying for productions to come in from out-of-Province and

there has been a lot of investment in our cultural industries over the last five

years in theatre, music and all the arts, and a lot of talent in each of the

regions. We are looking for a fund where we could do some co-productions with

people in the regions so that this would allow local talent to have a stage and

also have products that are of interest to the local market. We have already

initiated some of this work, and it has been very successful. Primarily, that is

what that funding would be going towards.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay.

On page 157 - I do not know if any other member wants

to jump in, you can let me know. I do not mean to hog it by any means. In terms

of the Provincial Archives Operations - before I get into the

section on that -

and the plan for a new centre, how is that generally coming along? I will get to

the budget part of it in a minute, if that is okay.

MR. K. AYLWARD: It is coming along very well. A

lot of work is being done on three different fronts to bring forward all the

detailed information that we are going to need. The program is being developed.

Our archival information and our - for example, a lot of preparatory work has to

be done in our archives, in our Newfoundland Museum. Protection of the resources

is underway to get them ready. The complex itself; tenders are due shortly or

are in and being looked at, at this point, for the facility itself, the physical

facility, but it is coming along very well. We have a lot of cooperation with

the historical community out there and the archival community who are being very

helpful, and the art galleries in the Province and so on.

It is coming together very well. We are very pleased

with it. As it starts to move along we think a lot of people are going to be

very excited about it and we will have much more progress to report in very

short order.

Part of the budget increase you see there is

reflective of doing a lot of the preparatory work. I think Heather could

probably -

MR. E. BYRNE: What types of people would be hired

in term of preparation and things?

MR. K. AYLWARD: Okay, I will let the officials go

to that.

MR. GRANTER: We would be hiring people such as

conservators, curators in the museum, that sort of thing.

MR. E. BYRNE: Okay, and that is ongoing?

MR. GRANTER: That will be ongoing. It has, to some

extent, been going on for the past year. It will carry on through to the point

when we are ready to move into the new facility.

MR. E. BYRNE: So any increase here - particularly

like the first one here - would be associated then with the ongoing activity of

the new building, moving in and requiring the expertise, contracts where

otherwise - whenever the plan dictates it for that preparation. Would that be

correct?

MR. GRANTER: Yes. In this particular case it is

solely devoted to preparing the archival material for its move to the new

facility.

MR. E. BYRNE: Oh, I understand.

MR. GRANTER: There is a lot of, what you might

call, sanitizing that has to take place.

MR. K. AYLWARD: And just to say that it needs to

be done, desperately. It is way overdue.

MR. E. BYRNE: If you talk to people in the

archives down there - I have, and spent a lot of time down there on student

stuff. It does need to be done, there is no question about that. The question

arising out of that: What are we going to do with the Colonial Building? What

are the plans for the Colonial Building? It is an important issue, I think. It

is an important monument.

MR. K. AYLWARD: It is an historical building.

MR. E. BYRNE: It used to be the centre of power

for our nation at one time.

MR. K. AYLWARD: That's right; for our nation. I

like those words, our nation. I always did.

MR. E. BYRNE: It is an legitimate question, I

think.

MR. K. AYLWARD: I agree.

There is an evaluation underway of the options for the

building. It has been ongoing for the last year. Discussions with the historical

community have been ongoing. I believe we are going to have a public kind of

process once we have some options developed, which will be in short order, and

ask for some public thought on it.

MR. E. BYRNE: There is no thought of selling it

privately is there?

MR. K. AYLWARD: No, it is to be retained. There

are a couple of public functions that it could serve, and that is what we are

looking at. One of the criteria will be requiring preservation of the historical

parts of the building inside, some of the artwork in the ceiling, and also

allowing for public observation for whatever we do for this in the future. If we

have another public use for the building, that there be also a separate area for

public observation. We have some plans for it, but it will be all public. We

will be seeking public input on that.

MR. E. BYRNE: One final question, vis--vis the

Marconi celebrations, if you could just give an update on how those are coming

along. What events are planned surrounding that? Again, another event in a

long-term tourism strategy to try to keep the Province on the map in terms of

our closest neighbors, certainly the States where our market is. How are those

events unfolding? I will leave it at that.

MR. K. AYLWARD: They are unfolding very well. They

are coming along quite well. December 12, 2001 will be the centre piece date,

but there are a lot of other activities that are going to occur this summer and

fall. We have a lot of participation from communities that are going to be

involved in celebrating Marconi and the wireless signal. A variety of schools

and communities are going to tie in their normal festivals to do, for example,

kite festivals in different parts of the Province. There are about seventy to

eighty communities now that have confirmed their involvement to participate by

getting the children in the communities involved.

We are also going to be having the wireless congress

here in St. John's, in September. Some international speakers in the wireless

and IT community are going to be here profiling the Province, profiling St.

John's and the wireless and IT industry around the world. We are also having

some collaborations and consultations with the site in England, in the Cornwall

area where this signal was involved. We are talking with those people at this

point. We are also talking with the Italian government and Italian community

where Marconi was born. There is a separate Marconi museum in Italy. The

community there wants to be more involved in the celebrations. The Italian

community -

MR. E. BYRNE: Can Palermo expect to see you this

summer?

MR. K. AYLWARD: Palermo could see the minister and

his friends in Italy, because it looks like a very strong interest is starting

to be generated. As a matter of fact, federal Minister Gagliano, there only a

few days ago, was talking to the Marconi Foundation, which is worldwide, and

they want to get more active. We are doing something with them at this point,

and we will have more to say about that within the next thirty days. We figure

it will give us a higher profile. We are also looking at -

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) no market we have never

been before really.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Exactly, plus you have the Cabot

history here anyway; building on it. They are very interested in doing some

twinning here with the Province. Again, the Italian community in Canada is 2

million strong. Montreal and Toronto are big Italian communities with direct

access to the Province. Those communities are being contacted about an interest

in looking at our Province this summer and fall. It is starting to generate. We

have some planned activities but we are also getting some other activities now

that are starting to come forward that we see as getting a chance to do some

major marketing in some major markets. We are also looking at Boston and getting

our consulate involved there. It is a good chance of leverage up marketing

activity like we did with the Viking celebrations. There is also the possibility

of having an exhibit that may go across the Province - a Marconi exhibit that

could go across the Province and potentially to other locations. It is coming

together well, and in the next couple of months, the next month or so, we will

have a lot more to say about some of the activity levels and participation, not

only in the Province, but also outside the Province.

MR. E. BYRNE: That is all I have now, Mr. Chair,

thank you.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I just have one more question. In

a sense it is related to a point that my colleague just raised in terms of a

landmark and a site. Of course, there is a lot of public debate now in this city

with respect to the Memorial Stadium site. Does the Province plan, in anyway, to

intervene a role, keeping in mind the integrity of that site and the purpose for

which, of course, the present structure was built? I know, strictly speaking,

there is no jurisdictional responsibility. However, does the Province plan to

play a role in the maintaining of the integrity of that particular site?

MR. K. AYLWARD: We appreciate the question. We are

looking at the issue, we are discussing it. We haven't taken any action on it.

The City of St. John's is wrestling with the issue. Councillor Hanrahan, I

believe, is having some views on that, and some other city councilors. We have

had some representations on it in the sense of other uses that have been made to

our office. At this point we have not taken any particular stand on it as such,

being in the city's jurisdiction in the sense of zoning, but we are interested

in what is going to happen with it. We are going to do a further consultation on

it in the next couple of weeks. I know decisions are pending and there are some

potential proposals in.

Definitely, I think the site is something that should

be looked at for the future, in the sense of that area. What has been developed

there with the new boathouse going in and the whole lake - it really is an area

for recreation and so on. We have had representations on the facility for indoor

soccer and other things, but we have not been approached by the city council to

talk about it as such, at this point.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Do you see a role that the

Province can play in taking upon itself to ensure that the integrity of the site

is protected, simply from a historic and traditional point of view?

MR. K. AYLWARD: I would say that we are open to

discussion on it at this point. We have not been approached. We have been giving

some thought about the potential uses of it, but again, city council is

responsible for that end of it. At this point, we will probably have some

discussions with the city council in the near future. We can give it

consideration, but at this point we have not.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I have a question in another

area, but maybe my colleagues would like to ask a question.

MR. TAYLOR: I do not know if you can remember a

mine disaster in Ontario back about five, six, seven, or eight years ago. I

forget the name of the mine, but it was shocking. There were a couple of people

killed there at the time. Actually, I was driving down the Northern Peninsula at

the time. I was working with the Fishermen's Union and I thought about - there

was a candlelight vigil that night, I believe, while they were still trying to

reach the lost miners. After that I think they actually established a monument

for those people. Certainly, if you go over to Stellarton there is - everywhere

you go, whenever there are huge disasters and stuff like that there are

monuments to the people who were lost; memorial sites and what have you. If you

go up in front of the Marine Institute the merchant mariners' memorial is there.

I do not have to go into a long list of memorials that we have throughout the

country.

If you go to New Glasgow there is the fishermen's

monument, and certainly a significant number of people who are named on that

monument are fishermen from Newfoundland and Labrador. Actually, my

understanding is that there is another monument being established in New Glasgow

now to the fisherwomen, the women of the fishery, in that part of the world. It

always amazes me - I guess it struck me that night as I was driving down the

Coast. I have talked about it from time to time since - but here we are, our

only reason for existence for 500 years was the fishery. If you pick up the

latest edition of The Navigator, about the Atlantic Prize,

fortunately there was nobody lost there. If you watched Land and Sea last

night about Gary Troake and his buddy - every year in Newfoundland and Labrador

we lose ten to twelve fisherman. I suppose, given my attachment to it over the

years in all facets of the industry and being a fisherman, running a boat and

knowing the risks, it always leaves me a bit amazed that we do not have any kind

of a monument to the fishing industry in this Province. I know you are probably

familiar with Folk of the Sea. We were trying to raise some money, approach

various agencies, departments and whatever, trying to come up with some funding.

I guess the question is, as minister responsible for culture and heritage, and

historic sites and so on: Do you have any plans in the near future to try and

pursue something of that nature?

MR. K. AYLWARD: First off, congratulations on

getting elected. That is a tough job to do, getting elected.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you.

MR. E. BYRNE: He has not made up his mind if he is

going to say thank you to us yet or curse (inaudible).

MR. K. AYLWARD: Well, I will not comment on what

he is probably going to say to you after. So, congratulations first off.

Secondly, I am very interested in getting that done. I have had an approach from

the Folk of the Sea -

MR. TAYLOR: Ged Blackmore.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Yes, Ged Blackmore, a great talent

in this Province. He has given me a briefing as to the effort that is being

made. He has a group, I believe - and also some private sector corporate support

was being developed that we would love to sit down and work in partnership to

try to get this developed; approach the federal government and put a team in

place to get this done, because it really needs to be done and it should happen.

The Folk of the Sea; we are all strong admirers of,

and by doing this we might be able to give them more of a profile also in the

sense of what they do for our place. So, we would be very interested in doing

it. If you would like to follow it up, please let us know because we have

already talked with Ged Blackmore about his capacity with the Folk of the Sea.

We would like to follow it up in the next few weeks as we get going and work out

the logistics. I know there was a proposal being developed at one point. We are

very interested, I say that to you. I would like to go forward on it.

MR. TAYLOR: As you can appreciate, to do anything

that would have any class, I suppose, you are not going to do it by trying to

sell a few albums, the Folk of the Sea, and a concert here and there where you

might make $500 and you might go $5,000 in the hole.

MR. K. AYLWARD: No. I was at the concert they had

here at the stadium with the miners' choir from Glace Bay which came over, plus

the Bell Island choir which came over, and we had the Folk of the Sea. I tell

you, it was jammed down there. It was a superb event - again, a great cultural

piece that we can all be very proud of - but we do need a monument, there is not

doubt about it, and I would like to work on it.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you.

CHAIR: John.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: One last question on parks. The

history of that whole debate several years ago, certainly from a personal point

of view, was, I think, a sad piece of our history when we lost what was really

truly owned by every Newfoundlander and Labradorian in terms of our provincial

parks. I am wondering the number of provincial parks that we have today. Can you

give us some indication of what commitments or obligations are on those

individuals who have assumed control and responsibility of the number of parks

that were part of that transaction during that period about three,

three-and-a-half years ago? What I am wondering is, if we can have an update on

the numbers, and the responsibility of those individuals today who acquired

ownership three-and-a-half years ago.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Pardon? We have some detail?

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

MR. K. AYLWARD: Okay, we have some detail, but

just to say that our present park system is working very well. Some of them that

were privatized have worked very well and others have not been that successful.

Most of them have but some of them haven't, but we are very interested in moving

ahead with park development in the Province, with the national park in Labrador

being proposed now; potentially two there, and also the Main River Heritage Park

which is what we are looking at, at this point; plus, we are looking at a

protected areas development in the Province, again to preserve. A lot of good

work has been done since, actually, which will ensure protection for the future

in our Province throughout Newfoundland and Labrador.

Madam ADM.

MS MacLELLAN: We are now operating thirteen

provincial parks, and these are many of the iconic parks including Butter Pot,

Barachois and Notre Dame. Two of these are open on a year-round basis, both

Butter Pot and Notre Dame, so we are serving four-season visitors. The other

remaining parks can fall into about six different categories, right now, of

operation. Some are continuing to operate through their licenses with the

government. Some have ceased to function. Some would like to get out of the

business. So, what we are doing is reviewing with the Department of Government

Services and Lands what the various status is for each of the parks and working

with each one of them to see that every full consideration is given, that if

there is someone interested in taking over a park, if they fall in that

category, we will do that and then look at how we will proceed from there.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I remember not long ago when you

had the Windmill Bight Park, and I think that was one that the Province lost, if

I am not mistaken. I don't know if that is one of the success stories or not - I

am not familiar with that part of it - but it seems to me such a shame that such

a beautiful natural scenic resource once owned by everybody in this Province is

now really in the control of a few. That one stood out to me as perhaps maybe an

area where, if we had our time back or if government had its time back, maybe

you would be prepared to reassess. Nevertheless, as I say, I don't know if that

particular one is one that has experienced difficulty or not. I know that

particular day was very lonely and quiet and -

MS MacLELLAN: (Inaudible).

MR. OTTENHEIMER: I peg your pardon?

MS MacLELLAN: (Inaudible) some difficulty. The

parks that we are continuing to operate, we are fully committed to their

operation as public parks and we will not be privatizing them. When any

opportunities come along, we are very clear on that, they are for the people.

As the minister identified, we are going to be moving

forward with our systems plan that will see a representative region of each of

the eco-regions of the Province represented. So, we will be ensuring the natural

integrity of the Province in terms of its natural ecological values through that

program, much like the ecological reserve program and the wilderness reserve

program that we now have; so our natural features, their survival will be

ensured.

MR. K. AYLWARD: The other point is that there are

examples of those parks that have been very successful. As a matter of fact,

some have expanded, put new services in, and provided a very good service to the

public. There are some examples where they have not, and we are watching over

those very carefully. Like I said, we are doing new initiatives now to expand

protection of lands that we want to protect for the future. It will help us in

attracting eco-tourism and other tourism opportunities to the Province. We are

looking forward to seeing that happen.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you.

We have lost our Chairman. I do not have any further

questions.

MR. E. BYRNE: I have to go. I just received a

message that I have to take care of right away.

On page 163, Minister, under 6.1.01., Recreation -

Operations, 10., Grants and Subsidies, it is $1,561,200. How much of that is

already set aside for ongoing grants and subsidies to organizations and

facilities, and how much is not in terms of new applications that may be able to

be forwarded to the office for -

MR. JANES: That program is really for new

applications. At one time previously we used to be in a situation where we had a

process where there were carry-over grants so that you could commit now for

three or four years, but that has been stopped. This represents now a program

that will look at opportunities in the current year, new opportunities to

support development and improvements on old infrastructure, because that is a

big problem for us as well.

MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, I understand.

Thanks.

MR. K. AYLWARD: So, we are taking new

applications?

MR. JANES: We will be, yes.

MR. K. AYLWARD: We will be. The minister will be

taking new applications, yes?

MR. JANES: Yes.

MR. K. AYLWARD: And his officials?

MR. JANES: Yes.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Yes.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you very much, everybody.

MR. K. AYLWARD: You are welcome, Sir.

CHAIR: Thanks, Ed.

MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Now that we have had Random

Passage and now the Shipping News being filmed in Trinity North, I

would like to suggest to the minister and his staff that they might want to

designate Trinity North as the film capital of the Province and give it some

special treatment so we can attract continued activity in that area, not in this

year's budget but in next year's discussion and planning for the next three to

four years. I am sure I have the support of my colleagues for that kind of

designation.

CHAIR: Ross, thank you for your comments.

Before the minister gets into a long answer, I am

going to move the Estimates.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01. through 8.1.02., carried

On motion, Department of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Minister, thank you and your officials for

coming today.

Now that the Committee meeting has ended, I know that

the Committee is glad to have the meeting over with; and I sense, for some

reason or other, that the members of your staff are as well.

Before we adjourn, I have just one quick question. I

want to ask the Committee members, if at all possible, and I can reschedule the

industry portfolio for tomorrow afternoon, would you folks look at your

schedules and let me know probably in the House tomorrow? We did not have

anything planned for tomorrow night. It was supposed to be in the morning, but

think about it. If you can, fine. If not, I understand.

WITNESS: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Yes, we can look at it tomorrow. I just

want to tell you that I am going to take a look at it from a departmental point

of view, and if you can it would be much appreciated.

Thank you so much.

MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.