VOL. 4 PRELIHINARY UNEDITED TRA..l"l'SCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, DECEMBER 12, 1978 N0.7

"' ..__, }!R. SPEAKER: Tapa ::c. :t.? Order, pleas a! T:1e :1on ... ~"ir:ister of Jus tic-2. , ~ . _, "'~r. Speaker, I ":·Tould lii.:.~ to ~ring l to ::I1e atte~tion of ~~1e han. !rouse t:1e p~ssing yesterday of e. very dis::iaguis:1ed ~Ie~lfou..<dlarJ.d busiru>ssman from !:he South Coast of t!1is ?roviace. I rafer to the late John "·· Dixon of Fort;u,e -::~10 dio::::d yesterday and tb.ere Has .3. ::1e1:.orial service for hi~ T.1e late :rr. Dixor .. in ~.y opinion is o~e of ~~e last of a lo~g ~reed of outst~~ding Sout~ Co~s~ '!::·u.si~ess:r:en, pioneers in t'!le devalop-:ner..t of the fishery.

F...is passing ;!is o~· m ir,i tiative «.nd '~it!lout any assistance from gcverr.!!'.ent or fron ~.n:::r::e~ ~ut a cc~c.ept t~at :-l~ put toget!1er \-lith 8J."1. .:\merican coLce~, indus t~r f·•hic.~ ":·:e have in Fortune tod.2.y. cc:-ou."""lit:r leader. He serve.C. as ~"..ayor of Fortur .. e for ai:;;:1t yec:rs of ~.1:!. .. ,::_o 1 . .:...-:.e-:.; :ri71 that Neor;:rfou::dla.r..:. has lost an out:Jt .:\r..dir..~ son t:_ t!!e ~n~s:.."C.::: of John !' .• nixon, a~ti I -: :-auld ?Jov e, I ,:wre seconded 603

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Decelllber 12th • , 19 7 8 Tape No. 250 ow- 1 MR. W.N. ROWE: although I did not knew Mr. Dixon myself personally,! think I have met him on one occasion or two-I was not a friend of Mr. Dixon. I had heard his name mentioned many, many times by peeple like my father, for e:~t~mt~le,who taught school in the area and by other people as well. Mr. Dixon was known far and wide for his business acumen,for his tremendous abilities as a cou.nmity leader.

He is a man, Sir, who put much more into the co.-on wealth, into the common wealth of Newfoundland, and the Burin PeDinsula particularly, than he took out of the C011111101l pot. Sir, I would like to associate myself with the words of the han. Go-.ern­ ment House Leader and go on the record as seconding his resolution that we send a message of condolences to his widow and family. MR. SPEAKER: Ron. Prellier. PREMIER MOORES: Mr.

Speaker, as the House knows and as the people of the Province know, the defence of the seal fishery which the government conducted last Winter with assistance from the Federal Government and various scientists in the various institutions, particularly in Canada,succeeded in reversing to a degree at least the flow of public opinion which had been running so strong against that fishery and all those Newfoundlanders and Labradorians that took

part in it. Savages, beasts, barbarians were names that were associated with our people and, Sir, they were some of the names that had been thrown at our people simply because they followed a way of life that our ancestors had long before initiated. We, Sir, I believe, are peeple of the sea,and that way of life they followed was out of necessity rather than choice because by it they were able to supple­ ment a meager income to earn extra money which all too often meant the difference between a bare cupboard and one that was at least partially filled.

And I think that probably applied more in the past than it does now,but the argument is still no less strong for the seal fishery. We succeeded in reversing some of the distorted opinions of the seal fishery that many outsiders on both sides of the Atlantic had acquired because they had been fed a diet of deliberate distortion, half 605

- ~ Tape No. 251 EC - 1 PREMIER MOORES: truths and wild exaggeration. We succeeded in reversing public opinion by placing the facts before the people of North America and Western Europe, a task in which we had the assistance of a group of highly reputable scientists and the co-operation of the media. We did not, and I suspect never will, succeed in convincing those who had no intention of listening to fact,either because they are, in the final analysis, utter fanatics, or because they have a monetary interest in fostering prejudice against that particular fishery.

These people, of course, are well aware that their campaigns have been undermined by the defence of the ~1 fishery and they will, Sir, make every attempt to continue their crusade,as we have read in the press recently, to leave nothing undone to swing sentiment back to their side. You need look no further than the fate that befell the British Government's attempt a short time ago to cull the seal herds that are depleting the fish stocks in the North Atlantic off their coasts.

You may be sure, too, that the outcries of those who have made a good living out of organizing opposition to the seal fishery will double and redouble in their intensity as the of revenue disappear to them. sources I hardly need remind you, Sir, that public opinion is often fickle and frequently captivated by fancy where a skillfully turned catch phrase of a carefully promoted cause is made to appeal to the emotions of people rather than to logic and reason.

Therefore, we cannot make the fatal error of assuming that our case is secure, that all opposition to the seal fishery has been silenced when it is actually quite the reverse. We cannot remain passive. We must continue to retain the initiative , and that is what we intend to do again, Sir, this year. We intend to be vigilant and vigorous. 606

Tape No. 251 EC - 2 PRE~IER MOORES: Our programme ,encompassing a range of activities,is designed to carry in a co-ordinated manner our messag e to sectors of society which are open-minded and unb iased, int elligent and influential, sectors wnich are well worth cult ivating, such as the scientific world, reputable conservationist societies, thoughtful leaders, the media and so on. As was the case last year, it is a programme based on calm presentation of facts . In this regard, Sir, I might say we have had the full co-operation of the 607

December 12,1978 Tape No. 252 ah-1 PREMIER HOORES: federal government and those people who have taken this particular issue seriously. We have considered holding a symposium here in St.John's to which scientists from all over the world would be invited to discuss the seal fishery and be made aware of all of its implications. A symposium of this nature takes time to properly organize and many scientists, Sir, require up to a year to prepare papers for delivery and there just was not time to mount it properly for this particular year.

And in order to do it well it was felt that something of this magnitude,where you would be tall:ing about the oceans and the creatures of the oceans with a special emphasis on the seal fishery,was something that would involve international scientists from all over the world.

We have been in touch with,as I say,federal people, we have been in touch with the university,and unfortunately,as much as we ~·rould have liked to have had it,it could not have been done in the manner in which we would like to have had it done in time to have it done before this year's seal hunt. lfuat will be done is that the mechanism is already in effect to insure that it is in place for next year. We therefore decided on what we believe to be a preliminary,an excellent preliminary~ and I stress the fact that it is not a mere stopgap. not a substitute, but a substantial programme in its own right.

And here are some of the main planks of that programme, Sir. A plan to personally appear,and representatives of government,before as many influential audiences - and He are not talking about the press conferences of a nature that we had last year - to appear before as many influential audiences as we are able to and to address as many influential groups of thought leaders as we can,having regard to obligations to this House and the administration of the Province.

For instance,we will be speaking before a group of editorial writers in Washington at which time I plan to seriously point out the unfairness of the resolution passed last y"ear by the U.S • Rouse of Representatives condemning the harp seal fishery' a resolution I regard as unfair and unjust to a point approaching the kind of kangaroo court because it was passed without any representation 608

December 11,1978 Tape No. 252 ah-2 ?REYU:R I'OORES: of Canada or of this Province being given a chance to rebut some very erroneous staten.ents made by the o rgani~ed opposition to the seal fishery. Furthermore it will be an occasion to quest ion that resolution before a group which is not only influ ent ial in moulding public opinion in the United States but one which enjoys unlimited capaci ty to do so. We will be addressing members of the International Press Corps in New York, a fo1'1.1111 which provides an ~~cellent opportunity to question 609 7 '

December 12, 1978 Tape 253 PK - 1 Premier Moores: the nessecity of and the logic behind Italy's recent decision to ban the importation of seal pelts. Two other platforms we are actively seeking are those of the Parliamentary Press Gallery in Ottawa and the Canadian United Kingdom Chamber of Commerce in London. This is one facet of our programme.

And another we are hoping to arrange -js ·a. series of speaking engagement for Canadian and other scientists and authorities in the fisheries to speak to groups of scientists and recogniz~j groups of conservationists,such as the National Geographical Society in the United States, as well as Europe. These speaking engagements are to be launched in January and will receive the necessary press coverage. In addition, plans are being developed to invite about fifteen to twenty well-known and respected marine biologists and environmentalists from the United States and Europe to attend the seal fishery.

By their attendance they will well see the manner in which the fishery is conducted and the safeguards that have been set up to ensure that the fishery is conducted with every concession to the humane killing of the seals. In addition, they will be briefed on the historic and economic reasons for it being held, and the measures taken to ensure that what we regard as a· vital and natural resource is preserved for the use of future generations and not ~antonly and indiscriminately decimated.

I might add too that these observers undoubtedly will note that the seal fishery demands a degree of courage and stamina which today is rarely found among men in most parts of this world. Finally, but very importantly, we have been in touch with a number of Canadian news reporters and broadcasters who have covered previous seal hunts and who are willing to speak to members of editorial boards of influential newspapers in the United States and Europe regarding the distorted news coverage of the fishery in years past.

I have provided, Sir, some of the insight into the 1978-1979 programme to defend the harp seal fishery and the men who depend upon it for a part of their livelihood from the wholly unjust and unfair attacks likely to 610

December 12, 1978 Tape 253 Premier Moores: be made upon them once again. That defence is paramount in their thoughts and considerations. And it is one I assure you, Sir, that will be conducted with all the vigour that we have at our conmand. I am sure that this statement that I have made regarding the seal fishery will have the unanimous support of the House. It is a start; }ast year was a s.tart.

We have Pl< - 2 to keep the ongoing battle ongoing. ~e have opportunists like Brian Davies and others who are in this for money purposes, for monetary purposes, for self-ql!i~our purposes, anci where ·we are defendin~ a wa.v of life in Newfoundland and an industry in Newfoundland that is so much a part of our heritage and our culture,and ~rl~.1n~ustrial part of life as well to our people, we, Sir, as a government feel a distinct and real obligation to ensure that we carry on this programme until that seal fishery is left alone and can operate as the industry it should be. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 6:11.

•? .. t'\-O --· .lo r:ct c:.:~rc to l:!ao tltc !ac t:;. ;:e know c!ta~ it is not c r =i:nal ::illing :or any :>U:-posc . So, Sir , ·;c ··elc01'\c t;Je 1:-.:!.tiative . I I.'Ould also 11;-c to say ::ere, Sir, t!la.t t!1e ~~=-.:! rs Troupe laat year did an adl!lirable job on behalf of ~n :~e!z"tter.i::::; ::2.e ?::ovi...nce' -; a:1arencss GJtd consciousness of I • 613

December 12th., 1978 Tape No. 255 DW- 1 MR. W.N . ROWE: I was little bit concerned to hear from talks with members of the Mumme-rs Troupe recently that they are not in the best of financial condition- o-r straits and that they are finding it difficult to get adequate public suppo-rt,by that I mean support from the government,fo-r what they are trying to do in port-raying the traditional ways of life and in the history of this P-rovince.

And I do hope that the government will include that troupe and other:native Newfoundland acting groups, dramatic groups in their p-rogramme and make sure that they are adequately funded to get the message across. I would say that the MU1111111!r' s Tro!IPe.last year in its efforts across Canada did more than any other thing that this government was ·involved in to heighten public awareness as to the true nature of the seal hunt. One other thing I would like to say, Sir, a couple of other things.

First of all I would like to congratulate the Government of Canada - the Premier mentioned the Government of Canada - I would like to congratulate the Government of Canada for the courageous,in many ways,attitude it has taken with respect to this seal hunt. We heard an announcement on the radio today that the quota is being maintained, that the Canadian share of that quota is going up this year and the Norwegian quota going down.

It would be easy from an economic standpoint for the Government of Canada to collapse in the face of all these vicious campaigns being conducted by,aa I say. the peripheral f-ringe in the United States,particularly this one which threatens to alter adversely our balance of payments with the United States in resp~ct of the tourist industry.

But the Government of Canada has hela firm.! think of the Premier when he is talking to the PriUe Minister, Romeo LeBlanc or anyone else associated with the Government of Canada should convey our thanks to the Government of Canada for holding firm, for acting courageously, for not giving in to the propagandizing and the political pressure and the unwarranted intrusion by citizens of the United States into ' the economy of this country of ours, Canada,and particularly Newfoundland and 614

"' I ~ 0 :z:

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 256 EC - 1 MR. W. N. ROWE: all the flack. You should see some of the letters which PRO, the pro-group,have in their office in St. Anthony, for example, which a number of us saw last year - poison pen letters, flack of all kinds from people who do not know if they are punched or bored with respect to the seal hunt or what is involved. Newfoundlanders have been called •savage~ and ~rimitives; •maniacs ,' in some of these letters, 'homicidal maniacs; I remember from one letter, Sir. We are getting that kind of flack. That will continue, and nobody cares about it. I do not, in any event.

We should try to combat it and set the record straight, but we should not let it make us apologetic for the seal hunt or try to diminish the value of the seal hunt or any aspect of the seal hunt. The Government of this Province should pour money into developing ancillary industries, further processing with regard to seal pelts, seal meat. They tan them in Norway. There is no processing being done in this Province to speak of. We should have further processing here, Sir. Let us get the economic benefit. We are getting the flack, let us get the benefit as well. Let us not apologize for having a seal hunt.

Let us go full steam ahead and get a good seal hunting industry, a good seal fishery industry here based on further processing. I have a sealskin parka that I bought, Mr. Speaker, right here in St. John's. Where did it come from? It came from the Northwest Territories. Everyone who has seen it has admired it and said it was a wonderful piece of workmanship. There is no reason why we here in this Province should not be producing that kind of a product, that kind of a garment, based on the seal industry, which would sell in many places in this world in spite of the fact that we have gotten adverse publicity 616

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 256 EC - 2 MR. W. N. ROWE: because of the seal hunt. I am sure that there are many Asian countries and European countries~and American countries for that matter, who would gladly avail of the opportunity to get that kind of a product. So, Sir, I do commend that to the government. Let us not apologize for it, just go full steam ahead. But if we have an industry let us make it an industry and let us make sure that we get the full economic benefit in this Province for the seals which are taken and that we get many more millions of dollars into our economy as a result. SOME RON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: I wish to welcome to the House of Assembly on behalf of hon. members, Mr. Gordon Weir, Chairman of the Community Council of Little Bay Islands. I know hon. members join me in welcoming this gentleman to the House of Assembly. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of 163 residents of Salvage. This petition, Mr. Speaker, represents the total adult population of Salvage excepting one. 61?

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 257 NM- 1 MR. LUSR: The petition, Mr. Speaker, is asking for the upgrading and paving of the road from Eastport to Salvage, a distance of approximAtely seven miles. The petition, Sir, is verv Atraivhtforward and it is very simple in its request. I will read the petition. It says, "To the hon. Rouse of Assembly. The petition of we, the underAigned, being residents of and electors in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, humbly request that the government allocate funds in this fiscal year to start a pro&ramme of upgrading and paving of the road from Eastport to Salvage.

This road is one of the busiest roads in the Province, being used throughout the school year to bus students from Salvage to Eastport and used daily to ship fish from the fish plant in Salvage to various points in the Province, and additionally the road is used extensively during the Summer season by tourists who frequent the area from all parts of the Province and from all parts of Canada." The petition goes on to say that, ''Two years ago the government reconstructed the road but no paving was done. If a paving programme is not undertake immediately this will be wasted money.

We therefore petition the government to upgrade and pave this road in this fiscal year and your petitioners as in duty bound will ever pray." The petition, Mr. Speaker, is self­ explanatory and outlines the reasons, the very significant and the very substantial reasons why the road should be upgraded and paved in this fiscal year. And I would just like to further ellucidate or amplify these reasons.

One, the fact that the road is used daily by students, all the students of Salvage are bused to Eastport, not just a fraction of the students, elementary students, but all of the students and it would be close to 200 students. And sometimes, Mr. Speaker, I can assure this House that these students are bused over roads with the worse conditions,and the road is deteriorating year after year; even though the road was newly constructed last 618

··- Deeember 12. 1978 Tape No. 257 NM- 2 MR.. LUSR: ~ there were a i:ouple of wash outs in the roacl. Another reuon ia to facilltate the shipment of fiall frMl the area. A treaendoua amount of fi.sh, . Mr .• Speaker, il!l ahippecl fXOII t~ area. This y~ they have ciORe ~ioa ..0 m utead.oa to the fish plat there f;Dd. 110 cloubt: in tha future we ar.e going co sea more fil!lll 'beiJig ship.pecl out of the area. And I weald bo.pe that to fac;illtate the shilJaeDt of fiSh, to help tbe eoaamit:y of Salvage to grow, that the goye~t will, s" to it that the road. il!l p&Yed this year. ADother very iJIIportaDt reuou, Mr. sjeaker. il!l the fact that a lot of the people. in Salvage ~to work 619

··7 I December 12,1978 Tape No. 258 ah-1 1-'R.LUSH: to Eastport, they commute to work daily to Eastport, to Glovertown, to the Terra Nova National Park, to Gander and these people right now are certainly driving over it again, the worst kind of road,causing additional expense to the people who operate their <n·m cars. And a further reason, Mr. Speaker, is for the development of the tourist industry. Anybody who has gone to the Eastport peninsula in the Summer ~~s that a tremendous number of tourists visit the area and particularly the area of Salvage.

The people there have been very much in tune with this tourist development and do things ' to attract the tourists to the area. Mr. Speaker, it is just terrible the conditions of that road in the Summer. The road is nothing but dust in the Summer. People cannot put clothes out, they cannot put their windows up and during the Summer it is almost like Hater Street,:l-':r. Speaker, with cars dashing back and forth all the time. So, Mr.

Speaker, these are very important reasons and I would hope that the minister will rise in his place today and tell the people of Salvage that he plans to allocate funds for the upgrading and paving of that road this year so that the money they have spent on reconstruction will not be ~~asted. And, Mr. Speaker, a final point: let me say that the very significant reasons given for the paving of this road today fit in admirably with the government's new poli~y for transportation, the plan that they announced in 1978 of paving roads with resource potential.

This road fits in it admirably and I hope that the minister will tell us today that he is going to do it. I ask to have the petition placed on the table of the House and referred to the appropriate department. S OME HON. MENBERS. Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Han. Leader of the Opposition. ~R. H. R0T-IE: I would like to rise and support the petition so ably and admirably presented by my colleague the member for Terra Nova, Xr. Speaker, signed by 163 residents - ¥1'. LlTSH: All but one. 620

nec~mber 12,1978 ~·r .H .ROl.JE: there? ~.'R. LUSH: the district. Tape :-To. 25 8 ah-2 A~l but one resident. lfuat happened The only pro-government supporter in ~. W .ROWE: There is one Tory left in that district. One Tory left in Salvage, Mr. Speaker. That is a surprise to me. I am very surprised, Sir. One hundred and sixty-three residents of Salvage have petitioned this hon. House to have the road from Eastport to their community paved. Now, Sir, that is certainly a reasonable request. It would be reasonable no matter what community or what town was involved.

When it comes to this particular area, Sir, there are some very compelling agruments,most of which or all of ~Jhich have been given by my hon. colleague as to why this particular road should be paved because the government has in its own policy statements indicated that areas ~qhere the resources of the area could of course be stimulated to a greater extent by paving roads would get top priority. Now in this particular area, the Eastport peninsula generally you have had a concerted effort, Mr.

Speaker, by the residents of the community on that peninsula to build up the tourist potential and they have done a tremendous job of doing just that. Every Summer that area is visited by thousands of Newfoundlanders, thousands of people from outside of Newfoundland,and one of the remaining problems left in the area as far as it being negative from the point of view of tourist attraction is this road to Salvage which although it has been somewhat upgraded still remains to be paved. Salvage itself is a very historic town in New~oundland, one of the older communities in Newfoundland 621

December 12, 1978 Tape 259 PK - 1 Mr. W. N. Rowe: a community of great history and a community which now has tremendous vitality in common with the other communities in the area. I think, Sir, that the town of Salvage and the people of the area deserve, not only on the grounds often stated in this House of the social need of having roads paved but they deserve in keeping with the policy statements of this government, they deserve to have that road paved in the next construction season because it would add greatly to the already tremendous tourist potential and tourist development on the Eastport Peninsula.

I support the petition presented by the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) whole-heartedly, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for LaPoile. MR.NEARY: I would like to take a moment, Sir, to support the prayer of the petition so ably presented by my hon. colleague, Sir, on behalf of his constituents in Salvage. Mr.

Speaker, I would hope, Sir, to hear from the Minister of Transportation on this matter, but surely, Sir, if the Minister of Transportation will not get up and support the petition I am sure that his colleague,who is sitting to his left~will get up and support this petition, the gentleman owning a piece of real estate on this road, I would expect the hen. gentleman­ that is the least he could do, Sir, for the revenue and the income that he is fortunately acquiring from the people in that area-that the hen. gentleman will get up and support this petition. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, this petition, Sir, is like so many other petitions - MR. DOODY: Another ten or 'fiteen years MR. NEARY: I beg your pardon? MR. DOODY: Another ten or fifteen years he will be a member of the establishment and can expect to see him on the other side of the Speaker.

' l't. December 12, 1978 MR.NEARY: MR. W. N. ROWE: MR. NEARY: Tape 259 PK - 2 Another ten or fifteen years - He will be on the other side of the House alright. Another ten or fifteen years half the establishment that the han. gentleman is referring to will be guests of Her Majesty's Hotel down at lakeside. - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: - and probably the han. gentleman. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DOODY: (Inaudible) Thank you (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: Now, Sir, this petition, Mr. Speaker, is like so many other petitions presented in this han.

House where the government have made promises about constructing and reconstructing roads and upgrading and paving roads. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: For example, I couTd talk about one out in my own district, and the former hon. Minister of Transportation wrote me a letter and said that the government did not make a promise to reconstruct, upgrade and pave the road to - MR. DOODY: MR. NEARY: MR. DOODY: MR.NEARY: MR. DOODY: boy? MR. W. N.ROWE: MR. NEARY: There is only one road out there. - Grand Bay West. It is the only one that is not paved.

It is the only one - (Inaudible) What is wrong with you, Look at the thanks he got. Mr. Speaker, I could hardly move around in'l975 during the election, but there was a paving machine in front of me, the voting machines. MR. HICKMAN: Most of them with Liberal stickers on them. MR. NEARY: This particular piece of road,as I have been told by Mrs. Dulcie Kettle who lives in Grand Bay West, and the hon. the Premier perks up when he hears that name. 623

December 12, 1978 Tape 259 PK - 3 PREMIER MOORES: ·who? MR. NEARY; Who will be out campaigning against the administration and against the government in the next election if that road is not paved. MR. DOODY: It is too bad you did not leave Bell Island's roads in the same condition ·I left ._ (inaud)ble)~ · SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order! MR. SIMMONS: The other half will never be solved. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the only thing the hon. gentleman has done since he started to represent Bell Island is build on the foundation that I left behind.

That is all the hon. gentleman has done, is buildi~g on the foundation. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: road paving programme, Hear, hear! I started the water and sewerage. I started the got the second ferry, and the hon. gentleman has been trying to build on the foundation ever since. toR. DOODY: The only thing I can see is the fact that you started (inaudible). SOME HON. MEMBERs:-·-- Hear, hear! MR. W. N • .ROWE: Curlicue. MR. NEARY: And now the hon. gentleman has managed to get the airstri ·p paved. 624

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 260 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: Now the snobs and the elite of the Province will have a little place they can land their aircraft, because that is the only thing it will be used for. MR. DOODY: So you are against paving it? MR. NEARY: No, I am all for it. Anything that anybody can get in this Province, I am all for it, but I am all for priorities~too, for the government getting their priorities straight. And there are worse things they need on Bell Island than the paving of the landing strip. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I started to support the petition and I ended up out in Grand Bay West, Sir, where the people out there were made a similar promise and the government broke its promise. So let us hope, Mr. Speaker, that if we are going to have an election next year in 1979,if the hon. the Premier has the courage and feels inclined to call an election, let us hope that the voting machines will be trotted out in full force and all the commitments made before the 1975 election will be carried out. AN HON. MEMBER: MR . SPEAKER: West. DR. KITCHEN: petition. Hear, hear! The bon. the member for St. John's Mr.

Speaker, I rise to support this We have heard a lot about paving the roads to resources and very little action in that regard. We have heard the Premier now proposing he is going to spend several more million dollars for one of his favourite charities and go around beating the drums for the seal industry. MR. DOODY: But I tell him this, that he can do more - Oh! You are a Canadian! DR. KITCHEN: No, I am not against that at all but I am against wasting money by giving it to advertising firms. 625

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 260 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! SOME BON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! One hon. member speaking at a time will be sufficient. DR. KITCHEN: I submit, Mr. Speaker, that the paving of the road to Salvage will do a great deal for the tourist industry, perhaps even more than the Premier's campaign to keep people from hurting the tourist industry in this Province by means of defending the seal industry.

Now that, of course, too, is very much like the roads to resources campaign, it is mostly wind, because the action that has accompanied that,. the number of sealing crafts and so on, is very limited. Now I will say this, that the tourist industry in this Province has a great potential, particularly in areas where it has been developed, and the Salvage/Eastport area is an area that needs great consideration. We are thinking about making cash.

We are using the roads for making resources, for helping people make more money, for helping people get a few jobs, and this has to be the top priority in this Province, the providing of jobs. And if paving a road to Salvage will improve the tourist industry, will enable another half dozen or a dozen or twenty or thirty or forty or fifty people to become employed,then let us finish that road, let us do that road and do it properly. We have to create jobs, and I believe that the reason for paving that road should be the creation of jobs. And that is the main reason for paving the roads.

There are many other roads in the Province of short duration, like the road to Markland which has to be paved for exactly the same reason, because jobs will result when people have these particular roads paved. Now there are other roads 626

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 260 EC - 3 DR. KITCHEN: which have nothing to do with jobs, and a lot of these are being paved too. A lot of money is being spent in the West end of this city which has nothing to do with jobs at all but which bas to do with something else. The government talks about priorities and roads, but when it comes to putting in short pieces of roads in rural areas they are most reluctant to proceed. I have great, great pleasure in supporting this petition which addresses the problem in the proper way. You pave a road, you provide some jobs and that is what roads should be paved. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. POWER: Hear, hear. The bon. the me~ber for Ferryland. Mr. Speaker, I would like to present a petition on behalf of some residents. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. SPEAKER: (Inaudible). (Inaudible) will yield (inaudible) the hon. gentleman wish to speak to the former petition. MR. CALLAN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to have a few words to say on the petition presented by the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush). On seven miles of road that the people 62?

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 261 NK- l MB.. CAI.LAN: ill Salvqe wanted to see paved and as the previous speaker just mentioned, Mr. Speaker, that is identi~y the s- n1111.ber of lllil.es of road that the people ill Markland are looking for and have been looking for for years to try ad get paved. And the road to Markland is not a dead end road as the road to Salvage is. I was ouly ill Salvage on one occasion but I know about it, Mr. Speaker, and I laulw s0111e of the people down there.

The Vice-Principal of the school at Norman 1 s Cove, whose u.ame I am sure is 011 that petition. teschea to ill Norman 1 a Cove but the lady goes to Salvage quite often, practically every weekend and I a11 sure that she would love to see that piece of road paved, because that is where her parents live. I know at least two pe"'Jle ill Salvage who are married to fon~er residents of Norman 1 s Cove. And the fish plant operator down there, the manager of the fish plant, his wife is from Norman's Cove. So T know a little bit about Salvage, Mr. Speaker.

Perhaps uot nearly as much as the Mi'Dister of Tourism knows since he spends a lot of time down there lookinR 11fter his owu affairs, private, personal matters, but I do know something .about it. MR. MORGA,!: it too. MR. CALLAN: not care less. - of the Province. I can name I do not know the name of it and could MR. SIMMDNS: What has he got the - MR. CALLAN: I do not know. I did hear that. He has mentioned that himaelf I think. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. CALLAN: We are not interested in booze joints. Order, please! Order, please! But, Mr.

Speaker, as I have said on previous occasions, when a petition is brought into this House 628

De caber 12, 19 78 Tape No. 261 NM- Z MR.. CALLAN: of Assembly requesting improved or upgraded or paved roads, I am always tempted to get up in support of that petition because I ~ pruen~~ __ dozens of petitioua of my own, ·011 behalf of my OWII. district. So, Mr. Speaker, I hope that these people doWD. in Salvage will be juat aa fortunate COllie Spring and come next s-r, just aa fortunate aa the people., hopefully, in Markland will be, and also the people down around Southwest Arm. Mr. Speaker, I support the petition. MR.. SPEAKER: The bon. m.em.ber for Ferry land. MR.. POWER: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to take a 1110111e11t to present a petition on behalf of some residents of Cape Broyle regarding a very serious and emergency situation that has developed in our area due to a very tragic fire that we had last year. As IIIIID.y of the m.embers•·of the House know, Baltimore High School, a -eentral high school which covers an area . from. Cappahayden to Cape Broyle, an area,I guess,of fifty miles, was burnt doWD. last year.

We were very fortunate to have alternate . accommodatioua available, although these acco1111110dati.oua were available in the community of Renews which is at the moat Southern end of the district. As a result of that a situation has arisen where many of the students attend school from Cape Broyle now have to drive on a school bus,leaving fairly early in the moming 7for a distance of about twenty-three miles ,from. Cape Broyle to the school in Renews that they are using up to September 1979 1 when the new completed Baltimore High School will be opened again in Ferryland.

But these students now find themselves in a very serious position because of the fact that about nine or ten students have to stand for a total distance of almost twenty-three miles from. Cape Broyle to Renews. Tbat ~--_a very serious situation and we are trying to rectify it. We have been working daily with the Department of Education and with the school board to do this. 629

Decembe~ 12, 1978 Tape No. 261 NH- 3 Mit. POUlt: tatula; "We. the UDC!uai.ped, p~ta of st.udenta wba are tnvelling \)y ac:hoo~ bus f~ ~ Broyla to ~ae- wiab to iDfima thb.e in audlori.ty that it is pruatl.y nec:e,sauy for a ~er of these students to remain standing for the cluratiou. of the journey. We believe that this 1a utr~Y ciaDgarDqa and an c:oncemecl for the -.fety of oU'&' cld.ldnli. 'rheftfon. wa hereby 630

Deca.ber 12th., 1978 Tape No. 262 DW - l MR. POWER: make petition to those in authority to correct this situation either by proY.lding a mini bus that would aceo.odate those students who are now unable to obtain seats or replace the present vehicle with one that is large enough to allow all students to be seated. We further advise that it is not the intention of the undersigned to allew these present conditioas to prevail and llllless the above steps are taken we will have to consider further action.'' Mr.

Speaker, this is a situation that has c011e up in the House before although may be not in this same type of emargency situation where school bussing i I th1nk 7 if I understand the situation correctly - the centracta for school bussing allow 15 per cent for standing which,. in this case ,is not the argument. The only argument that is true in this case is that this situation will remain in effect only until the new Balti1110re School in Ferryland is built, which will be opened in September.

We are only talking about a six-month span, we are talking about nine or ten students who have to stand a total of tweney-three llliles, s011etimes under very difficult road conditions as we have had the last two or three days. Mr. Speaker, I would just hate to see an accident take place between Cape Broyle and Renews when some·. of these students who are standing may be hurt. I think it is a very difficult situation.

I have talked to the school board.They are talking about a possible $5,000 or $6,000 expense to have this situation rectified.! sincerely hope that the Department of Education and the minister concerned can do something to rectify this situation either immediately before or after the Christmas break. I would like to have this petition tabled and referred to the department to which it relates. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. lllellber for Baie Verte - White Bay. MR. T. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I find that I have - I am being harrassed by my colleagues, Sir to rise and support the prayer of this petition.

I can certainly sympathize, Sir, With the students from Cape Broyle who have to ride over twenty-three 631

Decellber 12th., 1978 Tape No. 262 DW - 2 MR.. r. RIDEOUT: ud.les of road, standing, ei&ht or nine students. I think it is very unsafe and I think it is wrong that the busing regulations of this Province allow not only eight or nine students, Sir, but even one or two students to stand .on buses trmsporting school students over roads in this Province.

I have experienced the same problem in T1l'f district not in an emergency situation or a temporary situation as the bon. gentle­ man refers to but it is a co111111011 day occurrence, Sir, 1 t is a cou.on day occurrence because the busing regulations of this Province allow for a 15 per cent overload and it is totally wrong, it is totally U11Safe and it should never be allowed to happen. Every student who rides on a school bus in this Province ought to be guaranteed ,a place to sit down.

Safety itself, Sir, if nothiag else would dictate that.~d even though the problem that the hon. gentleman refers to is a temporary problem,! can assure him and the minister and assure this House that it is an everyday occurrence on many school bus rtms in my district. And those students in many cases, Sir, in 99.9 per cent of the cases are not riding over good paved roads,they are riding over very treacherous, hilly, winding, dirt roads and that,of course,compotmds the problem and makes the problem all the oDOre serious. I think the minister ought to take a very serious look at this situation.

I would hope he could solve the temporary problem facing the students in Cape Broyle but, Sir, more importantly I would hope he could solve the permanent problem that faces many thousands of students in many school districts throughout this Provillce. I have it in T1l'f district, I am very concerned about it 7I know that school boards are concerned about it but the government answer last year was to increase the amount that school boards had to pay for bus transportation without increasing the transportation grant itself. So the government,in a sense, compounded the problem more for the school boards.

The 15 per cent regulation, Sir, ought to be removed,it is to~ally unsafe, it should not be tolerated and I hope that the minister will do something about it. SOME HeN • MEMBERS : Rear, hear! 632

December 12,1978 Tape No. 263 ah-1 NOTICES OF MOTION YR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I give notice that I will later on, Sir, during the Orders of the Day1 ask for the unanimous consent of the House to move the following resolution: RESOLVE that this House reaffirms its belief in the desirability of the seal hunt and the methods by which it is carried out by landsmen in particular 7 and that this House deplores the threatened acts by the anti- seal groups who have in the past tried to disrupt the seal hunt and this House urges the appropriate authorities to t8ke the proper steps to insure that the rights of those lawfully engaged in the seal hunt are fully protected and that swift action be taken whenever necessary - MR.

HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: A point of order. The hon. minister. liR. HIC:n'.AN : The bon. gentleman is in the process of giving Potice of Motion, he already has a Notice of Yotion in his name on the Order Paper and it is out of order. You cannot even give unanimous consent to that. HR. NEARY: Yes,you can. I ask for unanimous consent, Mr. Speaker, and I would hope - MR • SPEAKER: Order,please! The hon. gentleman does have a Notice of Motion on the Order Paper, that is a question of fact.

I understood he was asking for unanimous consent and unless and until I am told whether one has unanimous consent or not I do not know. Does the hon. gentleman have unanimous consent? MR. HICKMAN: No. AN RON .}~ER: Do not return the favour. ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS TO WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. HR.NEARY: You are against the seal fisherv. MR. HICKMAN: You are too late. Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to Question No. 5 on the Order Paper of Wednesday,December 6,1978. Mr. Speaker, there was no transfer of shares from Provincial Refining 633

December 12,1978 Tape No. 263 ah-2 !'P. HICK?-' ..AN: Company Limited to Newfoundland Refining r.ompany Limited. ~!r. Speaker, - ~'P.. NEAP.Y: 'T.. SPEAKER: ''n. JliC!a'A.~: There ~~as. It is in the Registry Office - Order,please! Order. There was a transfer of shares from Provincial Holding Company Limited to Newfoundland Refinjng Company limited pursuant to the statues enacted by this legislature. 'Nith respect to the answer to 5(2) the answer is that the capital price for these shares was set by legislation and paying for the cap~tal does not constitute revenue within the meaning of the act.

SOME H0~.MEMBFRS: ~'R. SPE.I.KER: ~'R.HIClQ-'A.~: Oh,oh! Order,please! And the transfer of these shares from Provincial Holding to Refinit).g had the effect of removing the liability of the Provincial Crown Corporation for the whole undertaking. Hr.Speaker, there is another question on the Order Paper - 1Jhere is that? - I do not know the date of it but- PRE¥IER MOORES: Can it wait till February? MR. HICKMAN: No, it is not going to wait there until February. The ans~~er to question No. 9 en the Order Paper of Thursday, December 9,1978.

None of the officials in the Department of Justice nor I are aware of any correspondence with the other nine provinces on the matters referred to in this question. Consequently, 9(2) is not applicable. ~.SPEAKEP.: ~"P • H. rOHE : ORAL OUESTIONS Rcn.Leader of the Opposition. ~·r. Speaker, a question for the Premier. I understand from the ne1Vs today that management of one mine in Wabush have been in St.John's for some time and that the members of the union executive in Habush are on their way to St. John' s if they have not already arrived; 634

December 12, 1978 Tape No, 264 NM- 1 MR. W. HOWE: will the Premier inform the House whether he intends to sit dowu with m&D&gemeDt and union officers, peraouael, in an effort to try to resolve the difficulty which we are presently experiencing in Wabush? MR. SPEAKER: The hon, Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Well, Mr. Speaker, I understand the m&D&gement were in and met with some people at their request this morning. I understand that if the union comes in and they make a similar request the answer,of course 1 is that they will be listened to.

I will strongly reCOlllllleD.d, - as I said yesterday, the government's position is very clear where we stand on contracting out and what tile situation is leading up to that,about the principle of doinR work in the Province. Secondl y , and more lilport:an.t~y at !;he immediate 1110111ent, is that the government is not officially going to become involved in any way in this dispute as long as the law is being broken, or until such time as the people abide by the law and at that time we will gladly get involved and try to get both partie~ to get together to find a solution. MR.. W.

ROWE: A supplementary, Sir, for the Minister of Justice. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. W. ROWE : Would the Minister of Justice indicate to the House what were the circUIIIStances which were present in his mind when he either ordered or approved the ordering of the additional RCMP personnel to go down to Wabuah~ I believe there were twenty~ne or so - MR. NEARY: Thirty. MR. W. ROWE: - thirtT extra RCMP officers sent down to Wabush because of the situation as it presently exists. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Minister of Justice. MR. HICKMAN: Mr.

Speaker, I do not have to order or approve, nor did I do either, but when I heard of it after I certainly approvedof it. It is the well defined procedure that has been followed 635

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 264 NM- 2 MR. RICXMAH: by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in thi.s Prov:i.nce, that whenever there is any potential danger, and there they rely on their pmfessional adrtce for that,of any problems in an area, and they have done it in the Wabush- Labrador City area on at leut five occasions, as a precautionary measure they send in additional manpower. And most of thi.s can be acco111110dated out of the Labrador

section where we have a co=issioned officer. .And tb.e RC}lP are behaving very co=endably. In this instance their responsib111ty is to maintain law and order and to lee to it that circumstances do nat ·.arise which may generate any breaches of the peace and this · they are doing, and I certainly approve of the action that they have taken. MR. W. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: Final supplementary. MR. W. ROWE: Every time the hon. Minister of Justice is asked a question, Sir, about anything going on in his department he indicates he knows nothing about i.t or has not been consulted on i.t.

Re never has to approve anything, he never orders anything to be done. Would the hon. Minister of Justice tell us what he does as Minister of Justi.ce? MR. NEARY: Nothing. Only trying to cover up and protect ~e government. Tries . to protect the government. MR. RICKMAN: One thing I do do as Minister of Justice, Mr. Speaker, I follow the law scrupulously including the law of ethics. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that answer might be tested shortly. Mr. Speaker, a question to the hon. the Premier, Sir.

Would the hon. gentleman indicate to the House whether or not the Shaheen company, the Shaheen organization b&ve approached the government with a rtew to holding a United Nations meeting the same as the government held yesterday with the First Arabian Co~orati~n, . and if the answer is yes would the Premi.er indicate if provision has been made for Mr. Shaheen and his group to hold a news conference 636

December 12, 1978 MR. NEARY: MR. NOLAlf: MR. NEARY: Tape No. 264 NM- 3 iu a room in Confederation Building? In the Cabinet room. In the Cabinet room. 637

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 265 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: The answer is, Mr. Speaker,that no Mr. Shaheen nor his group 7 to my knowledge,have asked for such a meeting, secondly, if they did they would be listened to and thirdly, if they wanted a room in the building as First Arabian did yesterday, they would be welcome to that. As a matter of fact, Sir, I think it is fair to say that Mr. Shaheen has had access to this building in public announcements probably more than First Arabian. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR.

NEARY: My understanding is, Sir, that the First Arabian people are in Come By Chance today, they left this morning. Have they been back yet? Have they reported back to the government? Are they now in a position to make a firm proposal? So far, as I would gather from the press coverage of yesterday's meeting 7 they have not put all their cards on the table. Have they reported back yet? When will the hon. gentleman expect to get a report of their visit to Come By Chance? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, they have not reported back since they were at Come By Chance.

I do not even know if they are back since they were at Come By Chance. There are a great many people who have been . there since the refinery has been closed. It is unfortunate that the hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) was not at the meeting I held with First Arabian and members of the Opposition yesterday. And with his very distinct interest in that particular project, I am surprised that he was not there. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Sir. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. NEARY: I have a little gem to throw out to the Premier about some of the people who were at that 638

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 265 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: meeting yesterday, but I will do that in due course. Mr.

Speaker, what I want to ask the hon. gentleman now, Sir - and the hon. gentleman indicated that the Shaheen group of companies would be given the same courtesy as the First Arabian Corporation - but what I want to know, Sir, is when both companies are in a position to make a firm proposal to the government, all cards face up on the table, will the Premier then bring these proposals before the House of Assembly in order that we may put up a united front to the various authorities, to the foreign exchange people and so forth and to the receiver?

Will the Premier bring the proposals into the House so that if we approve one over the other that we can go forward with a united front rather than just have the government make the decision down in the Cabinet room on the 8th Floor? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, that is what governments were elected for, to make decisions in the best interests of the Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! PREMIER MOORES: Certainly where it comes to debating the validity of that decision in this House in something as major as this, it is obviously going to be debated in this House.

What the hon. member is referring to about the foreign exchange department, I have no idea, Sir. If he is talking about the Foreign Investment Review Board - MR. NEARY:· Board. PREMIER MOORES: Yes, the Foreign Investment Review - I would assume that it is something that obviously - whichever is the successful, hopefully, operator of the refinery-will get the full support of 639

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 265 EC - 3 PREMIER MOORES: government and this House of Assembly and the people of Newfoundland. }IR. CALLAN: MR. SPEAKER: member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. the Mr.

Speaker, I think from what we have heard in the press and what have you, and as a result of the meeting that we held yesterday with First Arabian - we have not yet held a meeting with the Shaheen group - but I think it is fair to say that possibly the biggest difference between Shaheen's proposal and the First Arabian is that Shaheen has come out publicly, and I dare say it is in his proposal, that he will pay off the local creditors. Now in our discussions yesterday with First Arabian, they were asked about that and they said they do not see any reason why they could not also do the same.

I am asking the Premier, has his government asked that that be put in the proposal or the final document with First Arabian Corporation? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, I answered that question here yesterday and the answer is, Yes, we have. We think it is very important irrespective of who opens the refinery that that position be taken into consideration, there is no question about that, because the people who were 64(}

December 12, 1978 Tape 266 PK - 1 Premier Moores: hurt most by the closing of the refinery were not just the employees, but people who are owed a fair amount of money - $50,000 to $100,000, that - the shopkeeper in Sunnyside to the small contractor. And I think whoever opens the refinery are going to have to look at that favourably, not only for the sake that they have to by government insistance, but, whoever they are, to ensure that they have the good will of the people that they are very much going to be depending on for the successful operation of that refinery.

And that is most certainly the government's position, yes, Sir. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: I will hear a final supplementary on this line, and then the han. gentlemen for Stephenville and St. John's East. MR. SIMMONS: A supplementary to the Premier. I do not dispute his having made reference to the point yesterday, but I would rephrase the supplementary another way and ask whether in fact it is true that the Premier at no time raised the matter with the First Arabian group - PREMIER MOORES: What? MR.

SIMMONS: At no time raised the matter of reimbursement for local creditors with the First Arabian group. And I ask that question, Mr. Speaker, in light of the information given to us yesterday in a meeting in the principals of First Arabian, and in particular Mr. Tamraz, who answered the question which was put to him. He told us, Mr. Speaker, that the question raised by my colleague, the Leader of the Opposition,in the House yesterday concerning the plight of local creditors was for him a new issue which had not been put to him by government at any time. And he confirmed yesterday, Mr.

Speaker, in our meeting about 4:00 o'clock or 4:30 o'clock, that until he heard the question raised in the House it had not been put to him in any form by the government. And I ask the Premier to confirm whether that is indeed the case. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, maybe it is Mr. Tamraz's problem with English or with the member for Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir's (Mr. S~mmons)

interpretation of what is said which is a problem he has a problem with 641

December 12, 1978 Tape 266 PK - 2 Premier Moores: every now and then. On the agenda that was tabled yesterday morning where we sat down and talked to these people, which is available if the hon. member wants to see it, one of the main items on that agenda was that very fact. And it is unfortunate that this sort of innuendo,when something so serious is involved, can be made an issue. The answer to your question is yes,the gentlem~n had been made aware of it and made very clearly aware of it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I had indicated that after the last supplementary I would recognize hen. members on another line of questioning. And the Chair's discretion in this matter is to a certain extent - informed by would be the right way of putting it- to a certain extent informed by the number of hen. members rising in the Question Period. Obviously the hon. gentleman is not prec 1 uded nor is -·--a-iiy other hon. gentleman precluded from bringing it up later in the Question Period if time so permits. But I did indicate I would recognize next the hen. member for Stephenville. MR. W. MCNEIL: Mr.

Speaker, a question for the Minister of Industrial Development in his capacity as Chairman of Labrador Linerboard. Since the one man grievance committee set up~Mr. Harnett~ has completed his work on individual severance pay grievances, and since the Joint Consultative Committee has forwarded its report to government, could the minister inform the House what is the present status of the severance pay grievances which he undertook to review? MR. SPEAKER: MR. DOODY: MR. NEARY: The hon. Minister of Industrial Development. I am sorry, was that, - was the hon.- Mr.

Harnett is too busy trying to straighten out the lease of a building in Corner Brook that the Premier gave him. MR. DOODY: MR. MCNEIL: I see. Does that answer your question? It does not. 642

December 12, 1978 Tape 266 PK - 3 MR. DOODY: It does not?: jhen I wi 11 try. The report of the Harnett inquiry has been received by government through the Department of Industrial . 643

December 12, 1978, Tape 267, Page 1 -- apb MR. DOODY: Development. It is not the_ simple . st~aightforward suggestion, suggestion, suggestion/recommendation sort of thing that one would hope for. Some parts of it are a lot easier to deal with than others. The suggestions that are in there, or the recommendations that are in there, and some of them are really in the manner of questions and suggestions rather than in actual recommendations. Sorry, I did not mean to bore you. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ MR.

DOODY: Some-of the people who are involved and worried, and quite properly so, in the severance pay situation at Stephenville are very clearly defined •. And ~ery clearly the recommendations are there and we have no problem with dealing with these people and these people will be dealt with very quickly, and they are a relatively small number. In the centre there is another group of fourteen or fifteen people whom the hon. member is aware of,I am sure, just by the number. There is a two-edged suggestion in dealing with these people.

That is now being discussed by a committee of Public Employees of the Department of Justice and of the Department of Manpower, dealing with the Denartment of Industrial Development trying to come up with a solution to some more, almost literally to some more problems that hav~ arisen through the report of the Harnett Commission. Then there is that big group on the outside who are not involved at all in the termination pay, the group who were cut out prior to that magic 24th. date, which was really not a magic date but some date had to be established and that was it.

So what I am saying, in effect, iG that some ::-eople v;hose J?roblems wer::: surfaced 644

December 12, 1978, Tape 267, Page 2 -- apb MR. DOODY: and looked at by the Harnett Enquiry can be dealt with very quickly. There are other who,I think,will be dealt with during the next couple of weeks. Then there is that large group whom the Department of Manpower and the Department of Justice are giving us a recommendation on and as soon as we receive that we will be able to deal with them. How quickly that w~ll happen, I do not know. We would like to process it, we would like to get it in place before the end of this year because we want to solve it and resolve it before Abitibi gets in there.

We do not want to have Abitibi faced with this particular problem because it is not of their making, it is of our makina. MR. NEARY: It is not by any chance consolidated Bathurst. MR. DOODY: I do not know why you do not ask the hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) for the answers to these questions, because he is such a know+edgeable idiot that there is - anyway, I am trying to answer the hon. gentleman. We would like to get it settled before the end of the year and,please God, if we can get Manpower,.

Justice and Industrial Development together we can get this thing, at least, put to one side before Abitibi gets in to activate the mill because that has to be the prime responsibility, the prime purpose. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for St. John's East, as I had indicated, followed by Baie Verte - White Bay, Windsor-Buchans, St. John's West and Conception Bay South. MR. MARSHALL; Mr.

Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice and it relates to a matter that was raised by another member of the House sometime ago but was not followed up, for some reason or another, at least I do not think so, I did not hear the answer. It relates to the Barracudina and I would like to ask the Minister of 645

MR. MARSHALL: ~_y ~efrt 1:9' 'i:J'Ie: ·-·~'tel! af ~sport to .. bd tia:~e an anquirr .i~to ~ <U:~J>p.&G!D:~cl;l .Qf ~fa. !AA:$!!¢~.Jdina @d,, i£: .so'- what. 'lt&s~onse he heu r.e:c.eS..~ f:r'mn ~ f~er~, ~Al~.~ ~~ M~ t'~ques:t:? 646

December 12, 1978 MR.. SPEAKER: MR. HICKMAN: Tape No. 268 EC - 1 The hon. the Minister ofJustice. Mr. Speaker, I have in these files here a copy of a letter - because it was to have been debated on the Late Show last Thursday, but then the hon. gentleman who raised it decided that he did not want it debated, and I have this prepared for it. Maybe the best way I can answer it is to - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) coincidence. MR. HICKMAN: That is right, by pure coincidence in preparation for the - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) is playing politics with the lives of (inaudible). AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, come on now! MR.

HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, the following letter was sent by me to the Ron. Otto Lang, P.C., Minister of Transport, Ottawa, Ontario on the 7th day of December. And this was the letter that I had intended to table in the House during the Late Show but the debate was withdrawn not at my request. "My dear Mr. Lang: Re: !'lotor Vessel Barricudina. You are undoubtedly aware the motor vessel Barricudina owned by T. J. Hardy Limited of Port aux Basques, Newfoundland, has been missing at sea since Saturday, November 25, 1978 and it is feared the ship has been lost and her captain and crew have died.

It is my understanding the owners last spoke to the captain of the Barricudina on Saturday, November 25th at 2:30 P.M. when the master reported the ship was approximately seventy miles from Port aux Basques and six miles from Cape North, Nova Scotia, with approximately 38,000 pounds of fish on board. The owners apparently tried to make contact with the Barricudina on several occasions during the 25th without success, but as the winds were high, they felt the ship had gone into 647

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 268 EC - 2 MR. HICKMAN: Anstey Bay. It is further alleged that on Sunday the 26th of November, two ships sighted something bottom up approximately twenty-five miles from Channel Head, Port aux Basques. In any event, Search and Rescue operations were initiated on Sunday morning, November 27, 1978 without success and the ship, her master and crew still remain unaccounted for.

It is my opinion that,in the interest of all concerned, it is most essential that there be a judicial inquiry into the loss of the Barricudina and I would very much appreciate your ordering same at your earliest convenience. Yours sincerely.u I have not received a response to the letter, Mr. Speaker, but as indicated today in the press, at least attributed to the executive assistant to the hon. Otto Lang, a decision has not been made. ~R. NEARY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman will remember a short while ago I approached the hon. gentleman in an official capacity or semi-official capacity on this matter and I also raised the matter in the House several times. And I also asked prior to the minister writing this letter for a public inquiry into this matter.

The point I want to raise now with the bon. gentleman, Sir, is whether the hon. gentleman followed up on my question that I put to the hon. gentleman about a week and a half ago in connection with the stability of the Barricudina , because there are two of these boats, Sir, still floating around, and as a public inquiry may take some considerable time, I believe that the crew and the families of the crew of the Sand Launce and the Blue Hake should be reassured by the minister,who has now 648

Tape No. 268 EC - 3 MB., RICKMAU: taken an interest in this matter, that the stability o.f these two boats does not come in question and that the safety of the crews of t .hese boat:s can be aiuiured to .this House by the minister in view of the fac;t that a public inquiry may be a long drawn out proce .dure. MR. SP.EAKER.: MB.. HI CXMAN: The hon. the Minister of Justice. Mr. Speaker, the question of the seaworthiness of the Blue Hake a~d the Sand Launce fall exclusively within the jurisdictioa of the Minister of Transport in Ottawa, and I would not be a privy to that iafor11l&tion, nor woul .d 649

7f I December 12th., 1978 Tape No. 269 DW- 1 MR. A. HICKMAN: I have the right to be privy to that information. I have been advised,and I cannot~uch for the accuracy of this but I have no reason to believe that is was not correct,that when both the ships sailed and continue to sail,they sail under CSI certificate issued by the Ministry of Transport and the Ministry of Transport ,in my ~Jt!,derstm:~.ding,have certain very rigid rules and regulations relating to safety which must be complied with before they issue a CSI certificate.

I would assume that if the Minist~ of Transport in Ottawa in his internal inquiry,which does not take very long,as I understand it it does not take months and months and months,but there is an internal inquiry wherever there is a ship missing at sea first initiated forthwith by the Minister of Transport and his officials in Ottawa,I would assume that if there is any fear at all with respect to the seaworthiness of these two ships,but I repeat I am not privy nor do I have the right to be privy to this,that his officials would certainly take that into account and that is the law. MR. S. NEARY: A supplementary. HR.

SPEAKER: Final supplementary then the bon. member for Baie Verte - White Bay. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the bon. gentleman will remember, Sir, that I indicated to the bon. gentleman that there may be somethl..ng wrong with the tlesign of these three boats, The" were built as an experiment, they were built and operated and owned by the Newfoundland Governaent, by this government,and there is no point in the Ainiater trying to •pawn·off the responsibility on the Ministry of Transport.

The plilint is this, that I askee the minister to cheek ,if the minister _will recall,to check to make sure that there was never any question about the design or about the stability of these three boats. I asked the minister to do that and I am asking the minister now as Minister of Justice if he has done it, if he shares my conern for the safety of the crew and the families concerned over the 650

December 12th., 1978 Tape No. 269 DTJ- 2 MR. S. NEARY: other two boats that were turned over to T.J. Hardy last year, sold to T.J. Hardy by this government, boats that were built by this government in Marystown. Was there ever any doubt about the stability, about the design of these boats? That is all I want to know. I want the minister to tell the House either there was or there was not. If there was not, then that is fine.! just want a simple yes or no answer. Was there ever any question of the design or the stability of these boats? Did it ever arise? The minister just has to say •·,yea or no,that is all. MR.

SPEAKER: Ron. minister. MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I hope the hon. gentleman does not think that he caa get t1p and s11eak as he did just then for three minu~es and twelve seconds and that imposes upon me an obligation to get up and say yes or say no, particularly Mr. Speaker, when you are dealing with a matter of this kind of gravity. Let me first take issae - vet the factual position before the House.

These three boats were built as a result of a joint venture between the federal and privineial nepartments of Fisheries by a design for a midwater steel boat prepared by the federal naval architect. whose name escapes me now- AN RON. MEMBER: In Halifax. MR. HICKMAN: In Hali'fax . I have forgotten his name but he resides in Halifax and as far as I knew he is a very competent person. }IR; S. NEARY: A Federal architect. MR. HICIQof.AN: A naval architect retained bv the Government of Canada who practices in the city of Halifax, Nova Scotia. MR. S. NEARY: MR. HICKMAN: MR. S. NEARY: at that time.

I know but he was not then. And was at the time. He worked for the Newfoundland Government 651.

Deeewber 12th., 1978 Tape No. 269 Rl'-'3 MR. HICKMAN: Why does the ho~. gentleman ask the questioas if he k.uowa the liD&wers even though what be bowl~ is incorrect. Secondly, the stability of the haat is a matter to he determined hy the Gowrmuent of Canada, the M:lniatry of Traasport who it~aues CSI eertifieatea,and I have no reason to helie,... that the CSI certificate would be ial!lued unless they were satisfied aa to safety ad stability. And I Would hope, MJ:. Speaker, that this st:&tellient of mine wll.l ~nvey to 652

December 12,1978 Tape No. 270 ah-1 MR. RICKY~: the families of the master and crew of these two vessels the simple fact that the Ministry of Transport has seen to it that they comply ~~t~ all safety regulations. MR. NEARY: Well what about - MR. SPEAKER: Ron. member for Baie Verte-White Bay. I had indicated that that would be the last supplementary. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Mines and Energy.

Just to refresh the minister's memory briefly,he might recall that a year or so ago we had tremendous problems with metre reading in Westport to the point where electricity rates skvrocketed five,six,seven hundred,lOOO per cent and it occured because the metre reader was obviously underestimating the reading and suddenly somebody caught up with it and found the problem and began to send out those vicious bills. Now the same thing has happened in the Roddickton - Englee area under the Power Distribution Diatrict of Roddickton. Light bills have increased 250 to 300 and 500 per cent over the last couple of months.

The metre reader has been replaced and a new one has been hired on. I have been in touch with Newfoundland Hydro and many of the people have. I want to ask the minister whether or not Newfoundland Hydro is making any efforts to collect the lost revenue that they obviously lost because the readings had been underestimated for such a long time when in fact they had advised us that they would not be making any such effort to reclaim or to regain that money? ~. SPEAKER: MR.PECKFORD: Ron. Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr.

Speaker, the hon. member for Baie Verte-White Bay (Mr.Rideout) at sometime after three o'clock indicated to me that he was going to address a question to me as it related to power bills in Englee and Roddickton and since that time I have been in touch with Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to get what information I could for the hon. memher r~hen he asked the question. 653

December 12,1978 Tape No. 270 ah-2 }<R. PECKFCRD: I think the situation in Englee and Roddickton is somewhat different than it was in Westport. I understand that there was a legitimate under reading,if you will~of the amount of electricity used by the customers in Englee and Roddickton. As a result of that,as the hon. member himself has said,another person is reading the metres in that area and the readings of course are accurate and henc~higher than were hithertcfore given to the customers because of the new metre reader who · is reading legitimately what is on the metre.

There is though the problem,as the hon. member points out, the question as to ~ack payments of money due by the customer to Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. I have been assured by Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro that they do not intend to collect the back money '"hich theoretically is legitimately due the corporation. In other words, they will write off and forget about the mistakes made as it relates to the readings and will just start from now reading the metres correctly and charging the legitimate amount so that there wiil be no back bills asked·of the customers in Englee - Roddickton. MR. RIDEOUT: MR.

SPEAKER: :1-'R.RIDEOUT: A supplementary. A supplementary. Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for getting the information and that certainly was my understanding too from Newfoundland Hydro. But I want to ask the minister to investigate this,that an employee of Newfoundland Hydro stationed in St. Anthony - I can give the minister the gentleman's name privately.

I do not think it is necessary to bandy it across the House- told a constituent from Englee yesterday 1 contrary to what I had been told and contrary to '"hat the minister has obviously been told, that Newfoundland Hydro is indeed adding on so much each· .month to the bills of those people under the Roddicktcn Pm;rer Distribution District to collect the estimated amount that is outstanding because the metre reader underestimated the metres in that area for so long. MR. SPEAKER: ~ffi.. PECKFORD: The hon. minister. Well, Mr. Speaker, I will check that out immediately and see if that is the case.

I do not know if 654

December 12.1978 Tape No. 270 ah-3 l-Ilt. PECKFOBD: there is &Clllle misunderstanding in the colllllllmication between the geu,tleman at Newfoundland Hydro and St. Anthony and the co111111unication he had' with the resident in Englee · or Roddickton as it relates to what is being added to the bills . The 655

December 12, 1978 Tape 271 PK - 1 Mr. Peckford: only thing that would be added to the bills is the fuel escalation charge. But the information that I have, that I have gotten in the last hour~ tells me that we are not doing that, and I will ensure that if somebody in Newfoundland Hydro still has that idea in his head that we will correct it within twenty-four hours. MR. RIDEOUT: Is there time for a final supplementary, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. MR. RIDEOUT: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, Also I wonder would the minister urdertake to investigate this--we both know what happened, and we knew that the meters are being read now properly and were read properly the last month - but situations where light bills have increased 3DO per cent from September to November,certainly I do not believe ought to be right; if they were underestimated that much there is something grossly wrong, situations where light bills have increased 250 per cent since they were read correctly the last time up to when they were read correctly again the other day. Apparently there is a problem still there.

So I wonder if the minister will take a thorough investigation of what is happening with the meters in Englee, Roddickton, and Main Brook, or wherever else it is happening? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. PECKFORD: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I do underta~e to take a full look at that situation. I just mentioned to the hon. member that the question is one of just how great a degree of underestimation the original meter reader did~ because if it was substantial well therefore you would see a substantial increase now, and therefore that might explain it.

But I agree with the hon. member that that kind of increase, a couple of hundred per cent and so on,is very unusual. It could be, as I say,just the legitimate misreading of it by the first meter reader as opposed to now the second meter reader who is not doing the reading. In any case I will undertake to have it fully investigated, and ensure the hon. member that if there is any mistake we will certainly rectify 656

December 12, 1978 Tape 271 PK - 2 Mr . Peckford: it to the customer. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. HICKMAN: Motion l. Motion, the hen. Minister of Rehabilitation and Recreation to introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting The Department Of Housing). " (Btll No. 9). On motion, Bill No. 9 read a first time ordered read a second time presently by leave. MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Agreed? No, Sir. No. Not agreed. MR. NEARY: We have learned our lesson, Sir, with that crowd, you cannot trust them anymore. MR. HICKMAN: Order 1. MR. SPEAKER: Order 1, the adjourned debate on the Address in Reply. The hon.

"member for Burin -Placentia West. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Uh, oh! MR . SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! MR. CANNING: Mr. Speaker, when the conversation across the House is through will start. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order! Order, please! Both hon. members will have to find another opportunity to exchange their views. ! ' recognize the hon. member for Burin-Placentia to speak now. MR. CANNING: Mr. Speaker~ 65?

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 272 NM- 1 SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CANHING: Mr. Speaker, when I yielded to the Bouse yesterday evening at the request of the Govermaent Rouse Leader, I yielded on condition that he would give me an extra half hour today. I understood that is the time that I have left. If it is not I would like to get it corrected. MR. RIDEOUT: That is what the Goverument Rouse Leader said yesterday. MR.. S!EADR: Order, please! So that the procedures will be correct, I understand that under normal circumstances the bon. gentleman would have fi:fteen minutes left.

In other words he has spoken thirty, he is entitled to forty-five. Do I under­ stand that now by unanimous consent he has thirty minutes left and therefore will have sixty rather than forty-five? HON. MEMBERS:__ Agreed. MR. SPEAD:R: Very we.ll., MR. CANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for the next few minutes I will refer directly to the lll&tters pertaining to 'f1l'J district, as it is on conditions ~ting md what we need and so on. Mr.

Speaker, the district of Burin­ Placentia West, whi.ch I have the honour to represent, witnessed for many years after Confederation the most rapid progress made I suppose anywhere in the Province. I can say that without a doubt. As I have told the Rouse before,I went into that district, an extremely poor area, the people were poor through no fault of their own. It was not for the lack of determination and hard work, but just the circUIIIStances, the times of the day in which we lived. Mr.

Speaker, I am not going to go into too much detail on the conditions except to say this, that it was extremely poor, we had very few facilities, -no electricity, no roads, poor schools, one mail per fortnight and so on. Those conditions I know existed in other areas of Newfoundland but these were the 658

December 12, 1978 Tape No, 272 cw- 2 MR. CANNING: conditions that existed very near the Avalon Peninsula where, particularly in the St. John's area, the people were much better off and for years and years enjoyed the facUitiea that we were deprived of and never enjoyed, Mr. Speaker, very rapid progress followed as far as possible and then according to our resources the curse of isolation was removed pretty rapidly.

In 1949, in my first election ·, I had to use a boat to practically every single settlement; there might be one or two in the upper part of the peninsula where you could go by car over a very rough road. The first five or siK years the whole west side of Placentia Bay was relieved of isolation, the highway to the Burin Peninsula was nearing completion. The first car ever to drive from the Burin Peninsula to St. John's, I believe drove on Christmas Eve 1949, MR.. HICKMAN: The first man to drive it was the man to whom we paid tribute today, John R, Dixon. It was about the first week in December. MR.

CANNING: Well, he was aDIDng the many people who, for years, looked for this, sought for this and I suppose in the old days petitioned for it. Mr. Speaker, I know where the final request was made and when a decision was made by the Governor of Newfoundland to approach the Commission of Government, I know where it was made, I know not to date when it was made but I know where it was made and under the circumstances, I was not in the province at the time. I a111 not sure of the governor, I think it was Govenor MacDonald, I a111 not certain of that.

He was visiting the Burin Peninsula and in those ~~s there were no hotels, of course, and a dignitary like that going to that area was usually entertained by either the clergyman or the magistrate or somebody who was fortunate enough to have the facilities or a table large enough to 659

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 273 EC - 1 MR. CANNING: hold a dinner. There was a dinner held at the presbytery in Marystown. It was attended by 7 first of all, the parish priest of Marystown at that time who was later to become my brother-in-law, the late Reverend Father Fleming. The guests, I am not sure of all of them, but there was : a magistrate, several Catholic priests and I imagine some of the ministers of the other denominations of the area were present, not too many of them because it was in a house, in th~ presbytery, although fairly large compared with other homes in the area.

So at that dinner it was brought up by those people who knew and understood the curse of isolation, these people who had to go at all hours, all weathers. There were doctors present, by the way,one was Dr. Harris, and I am sure he knew what it was to have to face the dangers and try to save a life and the clergymen present I am sure they realized what it meant to try to reach sick people in their dying hours,over the hills on horses and the Atlantic in open boats and so on.

Any of us who lived on the coast, and that was most of us, we certainly appreciated what those people went through, a terrible lot, as well as our fishermen who had faced the elements of the Atlantic, but these people who were not fishermen, sometimes students going out to universities who had to take boats,not used to the sea, not understanding the danger of the sea,perhaps. Anyway at that gathering these people brought up the necessity of the road to the Burin Peninsula, what it would have meant. They had a commitment there from the governor that he would immediately on his return to St.

John's bring the issue up to the Commission of Government of the day. Mr. Speaker, he did: he carried 660

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 273 GH -2 MR. CANNING: out his commitment, carried out his promises to the people,so unlike the government of the day that made hundreds of promises and failed to carry out any of the~but he did and stuck by his promise and the road to the Burin Peninsula, that is where it originated. These were the people who brought it up. I wish I had the names of them. Some day perhaps I should get them,who attended that dinner,and record it somewhere for posterity. Anyway, Mr.

Speaker, my point was that I want to make it clear - like I said yesterday, I was sick and tired of hearing people who should be following the current events, who should know what happened in the last fifteen or twenty or twenty-five or even thirty years - they are old enough for that on the other side - I am sick and tired of the inane statements they make, you know, "What did we get out of Confederation? What did Confederation mean to us?" And you will hear sometimes "Are we better off?", especially the Tories since they got in, "What did the Liberal government do? What did they do for Newfoundland?" Mr.

Speaker, perhaps if I lived in St. John's I would ask that. If I did not know outside the Crossroads, perhaps I would ask that,"What did they do for Newfoundland?" because there were a lot of the facilities, medical, electricity, water, sewer, you name it, that they enjoyed here for years and years. But, Mr. Speaker, anybody who lived in Fortune Bay or on the Southwest coast or in Placentia Bay realizeS what had been done, and we yet have a long way to go. But, Mr. Speaker, we have closed the gap much faster than ever I dreamed of.

I had great hopes when ~ went out to the district that they we would get these things eventually, but I could see them in the far distant future. But there was a concerted drive made by the Liberal 661.

December 12, 1978 Tape 274 IB-1 MR. CANNING: government of that day, Mr. Speaker, by men in this House, fine men. Say what you like about the Liberals or about Joey or whatnot~but in the twenty-three years that I was here there were some great men passed through this House, sincere,honest, decent , upright men that anybody would be proud to have represent them and was proud to work with them. I will not start to name them because there are too many. I would name a few and I would probably overlook perhaps the most dedicated man of the day. There were serious people who carried on a proper House of Assembly.

There was all due respect for the House of Assembly, very little name calling, some fine,statesmanship speeches made, good,hard working men. I am sure the Minister of Justice will agree with me because he can recall the~. He has been here some time and he knew them all, most of them.~~n who worked, who were at their desks in the morning nine o'clock and before,and who were there hours after other people went home because we had a lot of catching up to do.

The amount of legislation that passed through this House for the first five or ten years somebody sh_ould record it, should have it counted,because we did not have any laws to protect the people against themselves and whatnot. But the tremendous changes, the tremendous progress, we went forward pretty good. They made mistakes, of course they did, the government of the day did. I cannot say we made them-or I suppose did, I voted for them-but I was not a part of the government. But, Mr.

Speaker, on the Burin Peninsula by 1966, in the mid 1960s. perhaps the early 1960's~ down through the mid 1960 s ~ · we made terrific progress. I do not suppose there is any area in Canada that changed from a very poor area as did the to~·n of Marystown and the environs in such a short time. Mr. Speaker, in twelve months, within one year, it was a town or an area from a have· nothing, in particular that immediate area, to one of the most prosperous places in Newfoundland. The population has trebled plus, busi .ness has grown, wherever you look you will see progress. The people who lived 662

December 12, 1978 ape 274 IB-2 MR. CANNING: there all their lives,returning home after a few years absence hardly knew where they were. Mr. Speaker, the day I was defeated, in 1972, when I left it we had full employment. Now what ~t really meant is from the day that I went in until the day I left we took forty per cent of the people on relief. to full enpioyment and prosperity. Mr. Speaker, des.pite the fact of all our needs and the mistakes of the goverruilent and neglect of the government and whatnot~ it is today one of the most flourishing places in Newfoundland.

The Marystown area, the Burin area, including Garnish, Winterland, and take that area down to Rushoon and the Boat Harbour area, it is one of the most prosperous places; money galore and everybody happy with their wages, making high wages. I will give you a few examples in a moment and I will make a comparison. In 1951-1952, the average wage of a shore fishennan in Placentia Bay was something like $380 a year. Mr. Speaker, today I would say, I would take a guess at it - I do not ask people personally what they make 663

De~er 12, 1978 Tape No. 275 cw- 1 MR. CANNING: but I would say the skippers of the draggers are making, some of them go pretty near $50,000 a year, $40,000, $25,000, very few of them go under $25,000 a year. The engineers and the cooks who work on soine kind of a share business, share of the fish plus their salary for their trade as a cook or engineer, they make $25,000 or $24,000. And Mr. Speaker, what gives me the m~st nleasure is this, Mr.

Speaker, when I talk about salaries, num!Jer one is I have the greatest respect for the job the man does, it is an essential job, it is one of the most essential in the fish plants at Burin or at Marystown, it is a very important job and the plant depends on him and he is the man who keeps the plant clean. When the production line stops in the evening, five or six o'clock for the night, there are a group of men come to that plant to clean the plant.

It is very difficult to have any modern equipment because you have to clean pans, you have to clean a revolving production line,so you have got to get under it and over it and whatnot with cloths, brooms and brushes and whatnot but it is some­ thing that will take a long time before anybody will invent any modern machinery that will cut down the employment by cleaning out the plant. Mr. Speaker, they are the best of workers. Soue of the older ones perhaps never went to school. They do not need education for it. T;tey need to be careful, to be clean and to be hard workers. And, Mr.

Speaker, I do not know if anything gives me more pleasure than what I am going to ~ say now, I do not know what we get here in the House with our expences and whatnot but I will just take a shot at it and say that a member of the House of Assembly gets $20,000,I suppose. I really do not know. AN RON. MEMBER: Less than that. MR. CANNING: Less than that 1 is it? $18,000 - whatever it is, anyway it is not over twenty. Mr. Speaker, there will be men who are cleaning that plant at Marystown this year, based on what they had made up until they had a very short wildcat strike some time ago, they will make $24,000,Mr.

Speaker. 3ut it is not on straight time, there is some oVertime there,but they will make up to 664

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 275 cw- 2 MR. CANNING: $24,000. And, Mr. Speaker, when I went into my district in my first election and my second election and my third election and all the others, my campaign was based on: " I am going to work for you," I would tell them until their standards were brOught up to the standards that they deserved, which was far .above what they were enduring. Mr.

Speaker, I worked hard for that and all I will say this eveui.ng is thank God that I can stand up in the House ­ of Assembly in Newfoundland and tell to the man who is cleaning · a plant, who haa not got to go to university or haa not got to graduate high school, hu a job available where he can make over $24,000 .a year and that is the way it should be, Anyway, Mr.

Speaker, it just shows the potential is there, the future is there for the fishery and how valuable it can be to the people because in that area today, Lil:e I say, the people have nice homes, they have modern facilities, they have the cars • they have skidoos, they have a speed boat, Sm~~etillles they are criticized for it - that they are spending too much - but anyway, I think they are as much entitled to their speed boat or to their skidoo ·as anybody who goes to what they call the Octagon Club in Manuela. But, Mr.

Speaker, for the past seven or eight years there has been a slow down, a slow down in services caused by this govermuent. Unfortunately, like I think I mentioned yesterday evening, last summer there were people still, during the dry time of the SUIIIIIII!r and when the ground ;La frozen in the winter, 665

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 276 RT-1 MR. CANNING: have to go off in trucks for water. And that is in the town of Burin, in the town of Marystown or Little Bay. Mr. Speaker, we have pollution. You know, I enjoy telling this, I enjoyed having taken a

part in accomplishing what I was just talking about and I enjoy begging a government to try to do something about things like pollution and the lack of water. In 1978 people bringing water in a truck! People with homes with baths, with everything in them, with furniture in them, with everything to the last word, and a visitor comes in from the United States and they are embarrassed by the fact that they do not have water in the house. Then, Mr.

Speaker, we got the promises , the big promi&es of $1,000,000 for Lewin's Cove, promises for so many hundreds of thousands, and then the Government comes back and is going to tend to these essentials, these needs. The ministers, the Administration do not stay in the House to administer it, or to listen to a member speaking in the House. They talk while he is in the House, they tum back on to him when he is in the House, and they will laugh and joke in the House. They do everything but govern. That is what is wrong with this Province today, and that is what is wrong with my district.

We have the men up there on the ocean, we have the draggers and we have the plants and all the facilities; there is not "Very much a government has to do for the Burin Peninsula. A bit of pavement! Yesterday evening when I was criticizing my next-door neighbour a little bit, do you know what he was going to point to that he had done? When he had finished he pointe~ to a piece of road which was paved up in Fortune, Fortune to Lamaline. But, Mr.

Speaker, it is too bad the hon . member is not looking after Frenchman's Cove and Garnish and the piece of road that is still waiting to be paved between Garnish and Salt Pond over which the schoolchildren are travelling daily, summer and winter, five or six miles. But it passes through my district. It passes through my district and it has not been done. 666

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 276 RT-2 MR. CANNING: And everybody heard the joke about the bridge they built out in the middle of the river. They left it there for two years without a road being connected up to it. I did get after the Minister of Transportation after I got in and told him ,. for shllllll!' s sake to join it up so that it would not be a joke. Mr. Speaker, neglecting a prosperous part of a district! If people are producing for this Province, we are the producers, we are the people who bring in the new dollars on the Burin Peninsula and that is more than we can say for where we live here in St. John's.

Mr. Speaker, if we had to depend on the new dollars coming into Canada or coming into Newfoundland to be produced in St. John's, we would starve to death in six months. These people do not deserve that. They excel in sports. They excel in their schools. They excel in mtiversity. They excel on the ocean. They are men among men. They excel in every way. Some are top citizens of this Province.

And then we will have some yomtg yap from the east end who will talk to people coming from there and say, "All right, you have pollution, the sewer is flowing in over your children's playgrounds, in Lewin's Cove • " He knows that. The sewer is flowing over the roads coming down from Fresh Pond. They know all about it. I have worn myself out talking to the Minister of Environment with his, "I am going to get my staff ready and I am going to send them up and they are going to investigate." And the staff gets ready, they fly up and they spend the day in the motel in Maeystown.

They go up and they look at it and they come back. I wait four months before I get a report back from them. The letter they wrote me, I would not read it in the House; I would be ashamed to read it. It ended up by saying they need sewer lines there but it is a small town and I do not think the people can afford to do that on their own; they should get help somewhere else. Can you imagine that coming from a 667

Dec:embe.r 12, 1978 Tape No. 276 RT-3 Ma. CABNI:NG: minister? 'You sbou;l.d pt b;elp somewhere' • He dOes !lOt know th-.t he has a ~ity e:Qmld.l and the communitY council CQ1III!8 to the Go'Veftllll11lt. He does not know that · they p'l01111,ed a m:Ulloa buckltl the If& t time the M;inister of Justice 668

December 12, 1978 Tape 277 GH-1 MR. CANNING: ran in there.That was the promise:"Million bucks you are going to get for your water and sewer!' Eight years ago - not one five cents has gone in there: And they have come time and time again and the children's playgrounds,the river overflows and the kids cannot play on their playgrounds. Mr. Speaker, I do not know, I do not suppose they are childish enough, I hope they are not anyway, or they are stupid enough to be discriminating against it, against the district because I am there or because they expect to defeat me in the next election.

You know, I do not think they would do that, but I am going to tell them one thing,that it is not going to work,that if . I want to go back there and I want to be elected I am going to be elected because the people are not going to turn me down. The people are not going to turn me down if we got such a small government like that. Mr. Speaker, then the waste, of course, There was enough money given by the federal government. The bon. Minister of Justice was the member when it was being spent, he knows how it was spent. Five contracting firms crowded in in 1974.

Three - what do you call those engineers down there - consulting engineers - three lots of them. How much they were paid God only knowsl How much the over-runs were, nobody knows! Was it $200,000 or $300,000? Anyway, Mr. Speaker, the situation was this,tbat somehow or another- I do not know, I was not here- the federal government got onto the waste and what was going on and they lowered the boom. Not one other cent was coming into Burin and we did not get one cent from the federal government and that is not the people's fault. It is the fault of this administration because, Mr.

Speaker, my dealings with Municipal Affairs since I 669

December 12, 1978 Tape 277 GH-2 MR. CANNING: came here - I do not know what is going to happen now to the new minister. I do hope he gets down to work -but the previous one to the previous one, that is three back, what a mess he left behind him! AN RON. MEMBER: Who is that? MR. CANNING: I do not blame them not only in saying "Who is that?" because they have changed so often, they have changed so often,every other day,they do not know . Half the time I have to admit I do not know. I had to ask somebody today who was the Minister of Recreation- MR. W.

ROWE: They do not know either; that question was asked in the House. MR. CANNING: - because I had a question and I wanted to ask the Minister of Housing or Recreation if I had to get a chance to ask it and I was not sure if I should add 'Recreation' to it, except the question I was asking was a commitment he had made up in Marystown a few weeks ago. One of those days I will ask it - it is a beaut. It is a beaut of a commitment by a minister that h~ has no notion of carrying out. Mr. Speaker, these are the things we need up there - more paving and water and sewer.

There is now way to put it - no way to bring it bef·ore the House there is no way to expose it or anything until you just tell the conditions and I have told them. I am sure the ministers of the Crown or nobody in this House, no member of this House, would want to spend two and three months in the summer with your visitors coming home with no running water, your well gone dry. Mr. Speaker, with the time I have left I will revert to the fisheries again and I have told that it is one of the most prosperous areas. I think that we have proved in that particular area that one type of 670

Dec:.ember 12, 197S Tape 277 GH-3 HR. CANNING: fishing that is applic:ab1e and w:t.ll be suc:c:eesful and I think will go on in the future is the dra.gger fis-hery as we know it with our stern draggers of today. It i _s a hazardous bUsiness for privat _e enterprise because the draggers are very expen .sive. Now, Mr. Speaker, in Grand Bank and 1n Fortune and in Burin aAd Marystown and t -hat general area I think it has to be ac:c:epted 6?:1

December 12, 1978 Tape 278 GH-1 MR. CANNING: that the deepsea fishery is the most applicable for there with deepsea men, with people already trained and passing on the training and young men going on those draggers, making a wage that they are pretty well satisfied with although when the cost of living goes up and what not they will be looking for further conditions, higher wages very likely but that is with us and will stay with us. Mr. Speaker, when I hear of what type of boat we need, what size we need and what we need to cope with the Arctic ice, with the ice floes, Mr.

Speaker, I have my ideas 9 and my ideas mostly come from the people who are in it or out at the edge of the ice wishing they could break through it, the people who are on the Atlantic and, Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER: (Dr, J. Collins) Order, please! I have to inform the bon. member that his time has elapsed. Does the bon. member have leave? Order, please! Do I understand that the hon. member has leave for a specific period of time? Is it understood that the han. member has leave for five minutes. Ron. member. MR. CANNING: Mr. Speaker, I was not expectin~ to get it, Mr. Speaker.

I was almost joking when I said that the Minister of Justice had promised me a further half-hour but the Minister of Justice said "Yes, ask for leave of the House", and I got the leave and when I stood in the House I was given the understanding that I had a half an hour to speak. MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, just for the hon. gentleman - the hen. gentleman asked for unanimous leave to speak for a half an hour when the adjourned debate was resumed and there was unanimous consent. MR. SIMMONS: He was given an extra half hour and he has fifteen minutes left. 672

December 12, 1978 MR . HI CL'IAN: above - MR. CANNING: (inaudible). MR. HICKMAN: Tape 278 GH-2 Oh you mean half an hour over and Each time I stood up this afternoon The han. gentleman and I know what he asked for and no one else seems to know. The hon. gentleman asked if he could speak for aalf an hour this afternoon. Am I correct? MR. CANNING: That is correct. MR. HICKMAN: That is correct and unanimous consent was given. Now, am I to understand from the Chair that the thirty minutes have expired? MR. SPEAKER: (nr. J.

Collins) The Table informs me,and they already had informed me,that that period of time had elapsed. MR. SIMMONS: MR . CANNING: MR. HICKMAN: Give him five minutes Just to finish up. Right. You have unanimous consent for another five minutes. Okay? SOME RON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. CANNING: fast. MR. SPEAKER: Hear, hear! Order, please! Okay, Mr. Speaker, I will talk Order, please! Just for clarifi- cation, I understand the hon. member has leave for five minutes as of now, is that correct? Agreed. The han. member. MR. CANNING: Alright, Mr. Speaker, I am sorry.

I was absorbed in my speech with my sincerity to my people and my anxiety for progress and what not, but I will use the next five minutes directly on the fishery, Mr. Speaker. I was getting into that subject there. 673

Deceaber 12, 1978 Tape 278 GH - 3 MR. CANNING: Mr. Speaker, I think the future of my area, the future of the Burin Peninsula as far as draggers are concerned is this: Mr. Speaker, we have to have our - SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. CANNING: Boys, do not interrupt me now. Will you let me finish this? Mr.

Speaker, I am: going to suggest to the Minister of Fisheries when be is talking with Ottawa a.n.d when he is writing Ottawa, whatever he does, but anyway I have gotten the consensus of those who have spent as high as forty years fishing on draggers, of the type of boat, or the future type o.f boat we will need for the deepsea fishery because I think the future of the Burin Peninsula is in the deepsea.

So what they want is to reinforce the present draggers so that they will be able to penetrate the ice, future draggers to be a little ~arger with heavier power so that they can further penetrate the ice and fish the Northern waters. Mr. Speaker, we are not talking in ten million, twelve million or fifteen million dollar boats but, I suppose 674

December 12, 1978 Tape 279 IB-1 MR. CANNING: I do not know, nobody knows what they came to, $5 million or $6 million, they have proved themselves, the numbers that we have, although they are expensive to operate. this super port business. Mr. Speaker, I will be very brief with will be very brief. I will say that as far as Newfoundland is concerned this big super port, this big dream of Harbour Grace or any other super port is for the birds because it is my candid opinion it would destroy smaller operators.

It will be a Crown corporation, a big conglomeration of draggers, a big expense and within five years that corporation will be costing this Province or costing somebody an amount that would frighten you to death. Mr. Speaker, I believe in larger nearshore boats, fifty foot, sixty foot draggers scattered around the coast where our small plants operate instead of concentrating in one area, going into an area that we know nothing about and we are not prepared for. The people do not understand it.

The history of Crown corporations is not a good one from an economic viewpoint and I would think that - and especially since we have had our experience with them. Now, Mr. Speaker, as far as the super port is concerned I would say, tell the Premier to get down to business, look around the Province and try to improve the fishery and modernize it and forget his super port. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER MOORES: First of all, Sir, I would like to thank the han.

Minister of Justice, the Minister of Finance,for filling in for me last week. I watched the Speech from the Throne given by 4is Honour, the Lieutenant-Governor on television and the speech given by the han. Leader of the Opposition and by my colleague here next to me. The only thing that was a bit embarrassin~, Sir, from where I sat was that my colleague made such a point of~that what you could 675

December 12, 1978 Tape 279 IB-2 PREMIER MOORES: not say in twenty minutes, you should not say at all,which causes me a great deal of embarrassment today because was hoping to go for a little longer than that. So I hope that I can give a two part speech or something that will suit your particular - AN HON. MEMBER: By 1 eave. PREMIER MOORES: By leave, all right, by leave. Mr. Speaker, there are several things I want to say regarding the Speech from the Throne and the tone of it and what the direction of it is as we see it as a government.

I think that most people outside of this Province and I think a great many people inside this Province realize that Newfoundland and Labrador is in fact underway to a much greater future than we had thought possible five, ten, fifteen years ago. I think today~as we look at the resources and the need for those resources that may not have been there in the past, I think a great many people realize that now we will be the full beneficiary of something that is rightfully ours. Sir, the Opposition's job obviously is to be negative. Their job is to criticize the government.

Their job is wherever possible to get elected. So having said that one can understand the remarks of the Leader of the Opposition. I ~uess you could say that they would like to see the government fall on_,fts-=· face,whether it be linerboard or whatever,but I think also that they genuinely mean in their own way that whilst power is their ultimate objective that they will also be patriotic enough to see and think that the Province comes first and I think that is probably true although some people would not say that. The fact is, Sir, that I for one am proud to be Premier at this particular time in our history.

I am very proud to be a Newfoundlander at this time in our history. The Throne Speech to me, Sir, is a landmark in our history both for what it says and for what it means,and what it means in real terms to this Province and not in the political terms that are so often associated with documents of that nature. The history of this Province has been a difficult one 676

December 12, 1978 Tape 279 IB-3 PREMIER MOORES: and to have a Throne Speech that expresses optimism where optimism is justly due is something that a lot of people have great difficulty understanding. But when we look at the history of our Province 677

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 280 cw- l PREMIER. ~ORES: of NevfoUDdland and Labrador, the austerity that was here during the Colonial days which was SOllie four h~mdred years of ex:Lstance on a rock, seeking out an eJd.atance an this particular rock we live an, when we look at this as the bac.kgroUDd fnm which we had to build an it lll&k.es it very difficult to be very optimistic even now.

I will not talk today about the poaition we found ourselves in when we were first elected regarding the· finwnd al affairs of this Province, the economic: priorities of this Province, the emphaais that was being placed on development in thia Province,but the fact is, Sir, it was not our priorities, I do not think it could ever be the priorities of any political party again and for that reason I think that it took time, probably longer than we wanted, but it did take time to square it away.

But the fact is, Sir, that contrary to what auyone says in this Rouse of Assembly or outside of it, the dreams that were dreamt by sa many politicians in the past, by so many people who wanted this Province to prosper in the paat,are no longer dreams. The fact is, Sir, slowly but surely we have approached and are getting to a position where this Province's development is one of reality, one of identifiability as opposed to one of wishful thinking.

The economy of this Province is now firmly baaed on the development of our natural resources, some renewable and some not, The fact is when we talk about what those resources are they are not that difficult ~o identify. We have always encouraged this and worked hard, Sir, to achieve it, . worked hard without the fl811boyance and the glamour that went with some of the positions in the past, probably, to our own determent,too quietly on occasion, but the fact is that a great many things have been done, a great maay things are about to happen.

Whether it be the fishery, rural development, forestry,agric:ulture, hydro, off shore oil and gas, this government has insured that these resources will be the basis of our economy and above all else will be for the benifit of the people who live in this Province first, the 678

December 12, 1978 Tape No, 280 cw- 2 PREMIER !~>ORES: people who live in the Confederation of Canada, second, and then we can afford to be world citizens, third, The fact is, Sir, that Newfoundland is looked upon by other provinces, todaJ as being and w1.ll be a have province.

One of the I suppose ironically 8111118ing COIIIIIII!nts that was made at the First Ministers Conference recently was one of the Premiers of the Atlantic Provinces said d~g a certain debate that was taking place~ on regional development in this particular case, "We have needs, we have to have cooperation and the richer provinces have to understand that this is part of Confederation, provinces like B.C., Alberta and people with resources, like Newfoundland have to take this into consideration," Well, Sir, I thought they were a little bit premature but I did appreciate the sentiment at the time.

But the fact is that positive action in these areas has been taken whether people like it or not and I think most people do. AN RON, MEMBER: Prior to 1972. PREMIER MOORES: Prior to 1972. Prior to 1972, Mr. Speaker, the greatest person who declared giveaways in this Province was sitting on the other side of the House as president of the Association where he waved that flag with great vehemence. He obviously enlarged his navel to a degree where he had to go and get a new flag.

But otherwise having said that there is a lot that can be said about the hon. member and his theory that he believes fully in anarchy as long as he leads it. I can only say, Sir, with reference to the Speech from the Throne of lut March to illustrate that we have not always not lived up to our commitments as has been suggested in past debates. For instance last year, and I am talking about a year ago in March 6, 1978, one of the lines was.as was repeated the other day. ·~ government will continue its efforts in 1978 to find a new buyer for Labrador Linerboard Mill at Stephenville.

My government is optimistic that a firm arrangement can be made in 1978 and present information sug­ gests that the mill can be modified to produce bleached craft, pulp or news­ print. A thorough analysis of wood transportations systems and costs will be commissioned." I am optimistic about the prospects which currently exist, 679

DeceMber 12, 1978 Tape No. 281 RT-1 PREMIER MOORES: I think, Sir, that can nov be said to be a fact. One line below it, "My Govermaent will be co-operating with private enterprise to establish a fish plant and attendant fish catching systems in St. Lawrence to alleviate the effects of the closure of the llline in that town." I think, Sir, one can say that that is now a fact. My Government is gratified that the Government of Canada desires to assist the Province in energy development.

At the Conference of First Ministers agreement in principle was announced on the establishment of the Lower Churchill Corporation and that, Sir, I suggest is a fact. The next sentence, ''During 1977 Cabinet approved the Province's first oil and gas regulations. These regulations aim at controlling the rate of exploration and development, protecting the environment and obtaining the maximum economic benefit for the people of this Province. Exploration under these regulations can be expected during this coming year." A lot of people said, Sir, with the regulations we had, that would never happen.

There was some this year; there will be a great deal more next year which I will be talking about in a moment. And that is a fact that those regulations went into effect and they were adhered to. The Mineral Impost bill, and on and on, Sir, that Throne Speech went with things that have actually happened during the past year. We, Sir, have made a commitment to fisheries development, which is now underway and which once again I will talk about regarding the regional development strategy and all that went with that tn a few moments.

We are, Sir, I would like to think we are a Government that says we will do something and then tries to the most of our ability to make progress. And I think in certain areas~not all areas- in certain areas we have made excellent progress. 680

December 12, 1978 Tape No. 281 RT-2 PREMIER MOORES: 1979, Sir, will be a very active year, many things coming to fruition at the same tillle. Now the Opposition, Sir, does not like that idea. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! PREMIER MOORES: No, the Opposition does not like that idea at a1l. But, Sir, whether they like it or not these things are going to come to fruition anyway. I understand the critic for f:ished.es on the other side of the House spoke for forty-five minutes the other day. He has had the opportunity to ask questions about the fisheries progriiiiiiiY! in this House.

How many questions has the Minister of Fisheries been asked? AN RON. MEMBER: PREMIER MOORES : SOME RON • MEMBERS : PREMIER MOORES : Not one. Ah, that is real commitment. Shame , shame ! Real commitment. The fact is, Mr. Speaker, we heard the other day someone talking about cameras being taken where there are Govemment officials for political reasons. Now I know the Leader of the Opposition has problems with the Leader of the Liberal Party in Ottawa, as was very distinctly quoted and which was very well remarked by people in Ottawa immediately after the by-election result across Canada.

The fact is, Sir, when we are talking about what has to be done in the fishery or what have you, what has to be done in the Federal position or what have you - MR. F. ROWE: What happened to the flow of coherence there? PREMIER MOORES: I got mixed up after I mentioned you. Sorry about that, Mr. Speaker. I will go back to the fishery again, Sir. I think it is more relevant, and I do not mean to personalize this and I apologize for having done it. 681.

December 12, 1978 HR. F. ROWE: colleague. PREMIER MOORES : AN RON. MEMBER: AN RON. MEMBER: PREMIER MOORES: Tape No. 281 RT-3 Ask your friend down there, your Who? Alex Moores • He is your friend but not your colleague. Mr. Speaker, the fact is that the fishery of this Province does have a tremendous future.

A great many things always would have liked to have been done for the fishery I think the Opposition would agree,and I think just about everyone will agree,that whilst a great many things would have liked to have been done in the past, virtually very few or any of them could have been done before the 200 mile limit, and I think that is a fair comment to make.

The fact is that with. the 200 mile limit we had a nosition where we had a Federal Government that had developed expertise in scientists in the Department of Fisheries, whether it be in oceanography, biology, so on, we had a presence in the Federal department that had legal advisers and good legal advisers to represent them at the Law of the Sea Conference, and this sort of thing, good negotiators for the ICNAF meetings for the quotas that were going to be laid out and so on.

But the one thing that was not in that Federal department which was the most important thing that was required the day after the 200 mile limit was a commercial presence as to how commerically it could be mainly exploited for Canada's benefit, and the people in Ottawa themselves are the first to admit this. With that 200 mile limit, Sir, we were not then having to plan for the next five years; we were already then behind because 682

December 12, 1978 Tape 282 GH-1 PREMIER MOORES: both the physical presence, the planning that has to go into it, the proper development of that fishery, had to be done almost immediately. Obviously this could not be done, but I suggest, Sir, it can be done a lot quicker than has been the case to date. There was no performance coming from Ottawa in that regard. We took the initiative to commission two studies to bring all the matters to our attention and to see what could be done in a proper way. We hear criticism from thememb~ from Burin-Placentia West (Mr. Canning) about a primary landing port.

Primary landing port as was recommended by the study, Sir, would handle less than 10 per cent of the groundfish landed in the whole Province, not as much as is being landed on the Burin Peninsula today, by the way, a considerable amount less than that. But what would it do? It is not to land in a port. It is to land where they can operate most