Alberta Hansard — 10 February 2010, Afternoon sitting (13:30) (Legislature 27, Session 3)

20100210

Alberta — Debates (Hansard)

Province of Alberta The 27th Legislature Third Session Alberta Hansard Wednesday, February 10, 2010 Issue 4 The Honourable Kenneth R. Kowalski, Speaker

Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 27th Legislature Third Session Kowalski, Hon. Ken, Barrhead-Morinville-Westlock, Speaker Cao, Wayne C.N., Calgary-Fort, Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees Mitzel, Len, Cypress-Medicine Hat, Deputy Chair of Committees Ady, Hon. Cindy, Calgary-Shaw (PC), Minister of Tourism, Parks and Recreation Allred, Ken, St.

Albert (PC) Amery, Moe, Calgary-East (PC) Anderson, Rob, Airdrie-Chestermere (WA), WA Opposition House Leader Benito, Carl, Edmonton-Mill Woods (PC) Berger, Evan, Livingstone-Macleod (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Sustainable Resource Development Bhardwaj, Naresh, Edmonton-Ellerslie (PC) Bhullar, Manmeet Singh, Calgary-Montrose (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Municipal Affairs Blackett, Hon.

Lindsay, Calgary-North West (PC), Minister of Culture and Community Spirit Blakeman, Laurie, Edmonton-Centre (AL), Official Opposition Deputy Leader, Official Opposition House Leader Boutilier, Guy C., Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo (Ind) Brown, Dr. Neil, QC, Calgary-Nose Hill (PC) Calahasen, Pearl, Lesser Slave Lake (PC) Campbell, Robin, West Yellowhead (PC), Government Whip Chase, Harry B., Calgary-Varsity (AL), Official Opposition Whip Dallas, Cal, Red Deer-South (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Environment Danyluk, Hon. Ray, Lac La Biche-St.

Paul (PC), Minister of Infrastructure DeLong, Alana, Calgary-Bow (PC) Denis, Hon. Jonathan, QC, Calgary-Egmont, (PC), Minister of Housing and Urban Affairs, Deputy Government House Leader Doerksen, Arno, Strathmore-Brooks (PC), Deputy Government Whip Drysdale, Wayne, Grande Prairie-Wapiti (PC) Elniski, Doug, Edmonton-Calder (PC) Evans, Hon. Iris, Sherwood Park (PC), Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations Fawcett, Kyle, Calgary-North Hill (PC) Forsyth, Heather, Calgary-Fish Creek (WA), WA Opposition Whip Fritz, Hon.

Yvonne, Calgary-Cross (PC), Minister of Children and Youth Services Goudreau, Hon. Hector G., Dunvegan-Central Peace (PC), Minister of Municipal Affairs Griffiths, Doug, Battle River-Wainwright (PC) Groeneveld, George, Highwood (PC) Hancock, Hon. Dave, QC, Edmonton-Whitemud (PC), Minister of Education, Political Minister for Edmonton, Government House Leader Hayden, Hon.

Jack, Drumheller-Stettler (PC), Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Hehr, Kent, Calgary-Buffalo (AL) Hinman, Paul, Calgary-Glenmore (WA), WA Opposition Deputy Leader Horne, Fred, Edmonton-Rutherford (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Seniors and Community Supports Horner, Hon. Doug, Spruce Grove-Sturgeon-St. Albert (PC), Deputy Premier, Minister of Advanced Education and Technology, Minister Liaison to the Canadian Armed Forces Jablonski, Hon.

Mary Anne, Red Deer-North (PC), Minister of Seniors and Community Supports Jacobs, Broyce, Cardston-Taber-Warner (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Agriculture and Rural Development Johnson, Jeff, Athabasca-Redwater (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Treasury Board Johnston, Art, Calgary-Hays (PC) Kang, Darshan S., Calgary-McCall (AL) Klimchuk, Hon. Heather, Edmonton-Glenora (PC), Minister of Service Alberta Knight, Hon. Mel, Grande Prairie-Smoky (PC), Minister of Sustainable Resource Development Leskiw, Genia, Bonnyville-Cold Lake (PC) Liepert, Hon.

Ron, Calgary-West (PC), Minister of Energy Lindsay, Fred, Stony Plain (PC) Lukaszuk, Hon. Thomas A., Edmonton-Castle Downs (PC), Minister of Employment and Immigration Lund, Ty, Rocky Mountain House (PC) MacDonald, Hugh, Edmonton-Gold Bar (AL) Marz, Richard, Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills (PC) Mason, Brian, Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood (ND), Leader of the ND Opposition McFarland, Barry, Little Bow (PC) McQueen, Diana, Drayton Valley-Calmar (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Energy Morton, Hon.

F.L., Foothills-Rocky View (PC), Minister of Finance and Enterprise Notley, Rachel, Edmonton-Strathcona (ND), ND Opposition House Leader Oberle, Hon. Frank, Peace River (PC), Solicitor General and Minister of Public Security Olson, Verlyn, QC, Wetaskiwin-Camrose (PC) Ouellette, Hon. Luke, Innisfail-Sylvan Lake (PC), Minister of Transportation Pastoor, Bridget Brennan, Lethbridge-East (AL), Official Opposition Deputy Whip Prins, Ray, Lacombe-Ponoka (PC) Quest, Dave, Strathcona (PC) Redford, Hon.

Alison M., QC, Calgary-Elbow (PC), Minister of Justice and Attorney General, Political Minister for Calgary, Deputy Government House Leader Renner, Hon. Rob, Medicine Hat (PC), Minister of Environment, Deputy Government House Leader Rodney, Dave, Calgary-Lougheed (PC) Rogers, George, Leduc-Beaumont-Devon (PC) Sandhu, Peter, Edmonton-Manning (PC) Sarich, Janice, Edmonton-Decore (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Education Sherman, Dr. Raj, Edmonton-Meadowlark (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Health and Wellness Snelgrove, Hon. Lloyd, Vermilion-Lloydminster (PC), President of the Treasury Board Stelmach, Hon.

Ed, Fort Saskatchewan-Vegreville (PC), Premier, President of Executive Council Swann, Dr. David, Calgary-Mountain View (AL), Leader of the Official Opposition Taft, Dr. Kevin, Edmonton-Riverview (AL) Tarchuk, Janis, Banff-Cochrane (PC) Taylor, Dave, Calgary-Currie (AL) VanderBurg, George, Whitecourt-Ste. Anne (PC) Vandermeer, Tony, Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview (PC) Weadick, Greg, Lethbridge-West (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Advanced Education and Technology Webber, Hon.

Len, Calgary-Foothills (PC), Minister of Aboriginal Relations Woo-Paw, Teresa, Calgary-Mackay (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Employment and Immigration Xiao, David H., Edmonton-McClung (PC) Zwozdesky, Hon. Gene, Edmonton-Mill Creek (PC), Minister of Health and Wellness, Deputy Government House Leader Officers and Officials of the Legislative Assembly Clerk W.J. David McNeil Clerk Assistant/Director of House Services Louise J. Kamuchik Clerk of Journals/Table Research Micheline S. Gravel Senior Parliamentary Counsel Robert H.

Reynolds, QC Senior Parliamentary Counsel Shannon Dean Parliamentary Counsel Stephanie LeBlanc Sergeant-at-Arms Brian G. Hodgson Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms Chris Caughell Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms Gordon H. Munk Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard Liz Sim

February 10, 2010 Alberta Hansard 53 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. Wednesday, February 10, 2010 [The Speaker in the chair] head: Prayers The Speaker: Good afternoon and welcome. Let us pray. Author of all wisdom, knowledge, and understand- ing, we ask for guidance in order that truth and justice may prevail in all of our judgments. Amen. Please be seated. head: Introduction of Guests The Speaker: The hon. Minister of International and Intergovern- mental Relations. Ms Evans: I have the introduction of the Lakeland Ridge public school, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker: Yes. You’ve been recognized. Ms Evans: Thrilled – thank you – especially since our Premier was the one who first envisioned that this school could be an ideal partnership between Catholic, public, and the two government departments that exist in the school. Well, today we have the privilege of hosting two classes, and I haven’t seen them here yet, so I trust that they may be behind us. Oh, there they are.

We’ve got 55 visitors from Lakeland Ridge public school accompanied by Lindy Mair, Jay Robertson, Savi Kajan, Sasha Robinson, Heather Wilton, Lorie Fisher, Leeann Fries, Debbie Borody, and Jenny Stober. These students are very buoyant, and we had a wonderful discussion while we took their picture. I’d ask them to please stand, and we will give them the recognition they richly deserve. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Little Bow. Mr. McFarland: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a pleasure today to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly a couple of guests that are constituents from L ittle Bow.

Mr. Kim Craig is the mayor from the town of Coaldale, and Mr. Leo Ludwig is the town manager. Mr. Ludwig actually attended the same high school as our colleague from Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview maybe a year or two ago. I would like them to rise – I see they’re up – and receive the traditional warm welcome. They’re here to receive some meetings with the AUMA, and they met this morning with our Minister of Environment. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Health and Wellness. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It’s a great pleasure today to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly Dr. Trevor Theman, registrar of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Alberta, and Ms Marian Stuffco, the government relations adviser at the College of Physicians and Surgeons. Dr. Theman assumed the position of registrar in 2005 and continues to be very interested in the role that health care profession- als can play in creating a culture of safety, while Ms Stuffco, as you may know, has an extensive background in sports at the local, national, and international levels. I see they’ve risen.

I would just ask all of our colleagues in the Assembly to greet them with a warm, thunderous round of applause. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Sustainable Resource Develop- ment. Mr. Knight: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s certainly a pleasure for me to rise today and introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly three staff from the Department of Sustainable Resource Development. They are Alberta wildfire operations team members, instrumental in forest firefighting efforts here and in British Columbia last year.

Rick Moore, wildfire operations officer in Rocky Mountain House, with 27 years of service, led efforts to fight the 3,000 hectare Brookmere fire near Merritt, B.C. Doug Smith, the wildfire operations officer in Whitecourt, with 25 years of service, was an incident commander in British Columbia involved in multiple fires near Bella Coola. Mr. John Brewer, director of wildlife operations at the provincial forest fires centre in Edmonton, 33 years of service, co-ordinated help in British Columbia to ensure that Alberta remained well protected from wildfires in the province last year.

I would ask them to please rise and receive the warm welcome of this Assembly and would thank them for joining us today. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. Mr. Bhardwaj: T h a n k y o u v e r y m u c h , M r . S p e a k e r . I t i s m y honour to rise today and introduce to you and through you a visitor from Ludhiana, India, Mr. Gajjan Singh Thind. Mr. Thind is a director of M.G.M. public school Ludhiana. I hope he is enjoying his visit to the capital city of Edmonton in the wonderful province of Alberta. Mr.

Thind is joined here today by Gurbhalinder Singh Sandhu, chief editor of the Des Pardes Times , Vattandeep Singh Grewal, and Roop Brar. At this time I would ask all of my guests to please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assem- bly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Strathmore-Brooks. Mr. Doerksen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a pleasure for me to introduce two guests from my constituency: the mayor of Strath- more, Mr. George Lattery, and the CEO of the town of Strathmore, Dr. Dwight Stanford.

They attended meetings with ministers this morning and are in Edmonton to attend AUMA meetings later today and tomorrow. Welcome, and I would ask all of my colleagues to extend the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Dr. Swann: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It is a great honour for me today to rise and introduce to you and to all members of the Assembly several individuals in the public gallery that are here today to show their concern for the mismanagement of our health care system.

Please rise as I say your name and accept the warm welcome of the Assembly: Jayne Hamilton, Elaine and Neil Fleming, Tom and Bev Sawyer. Thank you. The Speaker: Are there others? The hon. Member for Edmonton- Meadowlark. Dr. Sherman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my honour to intro- duce to you and through you to all members of this Assembly six bright young students. They are from the University of Alberta Conservative Association. They have interests in political science, sociology, teaching, business. I would like them to stand up in order of their names: Mr. Kevin Tam, who is the president; Mr. Adam

Alberta Hansard February 10, 201054 Risling, executive vice-president; Miss Heather Mickalyk, vice- president of events; Mr. Christian Lowden; Mr. Matthew Sztym; Mr. Patrick Ross. This is a bright young future. They are here to keep an eye on us, learn from us, and maybe teach us and guide us in the near future. I look forward to seeing them maybe one day sitting in our chairs. I would like all my friends to give them a warm welcome to the Assembly. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. Mr. Bhardwaj: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is an honour to rise again today and introduce to you and through you students from Meyonohk elementary school, from my constituency of Edmonton-Ellerslie, sitting in the members’ gallery. I would ask the students to please rise along with their teacher, Mrs. Sylvester, to receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. head: Members’ Statements The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Hays. Tribute to Forest Firefighters Mr. Johnston: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to speak about wildfires and the heroic work done by a select group of Albertans who protect the lives and properties of their friends and neighbours from forest fires. It may seem strange to speak of wildfires in February, when sub-zero temperatures are common and snow covers the ground across much of our province. However, the conditions that support wildfires will arrive very soon in Alberta – the season typically begins April 1, less than two months from now – and we will once again have cause to be thankful for the efforts of the firefighters who protect public safety in our province.

These brave men and women put their lives at stake every day of the wildfire season in Alberta to ensure that Alberta communities are protected when danger threatens, and it’s not just Albertans that they protect. Last August 290 of our brave firefighters were sent from Alberta to British Columbia to help with the terrible situation facing our neighbours to the west. B.C. was experiencing extreme fire hazards and catastrophic fires burning across that province. Fires encroached on many communities, placing lives at risk and threaten- ing to destroy homes and businesses.

Alberta’s firefighters stepped up to the challenge and helped British Columbia overcome the dangerous situation. What is also notable about the effort is that Alberta was able to provide help without compromising safety in this province. Last summer also saw extreme fire hazards in Alberta. Last year we recorded 1,000 wildfires by mid-June, the earliest date we’ve ever reached that number. Luckily for us and British Columbia, our wildfire hazard lessened as the summer progressed, allowing us to assist British Columbia when they most needed our help.

This scenario illustrates the valu e of the firefighting agreements Alberta has in place with other agencies across North America, allowing for sharing of resources when one jurisdiction or another faces extreme conditions. Alberta has benefited from this agreement in the past, most recently last June, when 200 firefighters from across Canada and Mexico arrived to assist Alberta with a rash of wildfires. 1:40 Wildland firefighters are a rare breed indeed. They are quick to stand in the front lines to fight fires at home and to travel to other jurisdictions to help neighbours in need.

I want to express my sincere gratitude to all of the wildland firefighters who protect people and property in this province, whether they are part of Alberta’s firefighting corps or personnel from other . . . [Mr. Johnston’s speaking time expired] The Speaker: Thank you very much. The hon. Member for Calgary-Montrose. Haiti Relief Effort Mr. Bhullar: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to pay tribute to many organizations that have come together in support of the people of Haiti. It’s estimated that 230,000 people have been identified as deceased and that approximately 300,000 have been injured.

However, through this darkness we have brought out characteristics of humanity that really encompass the best of us: charity, compassion, and the spirit to persevere. To this end, I would like to brin g to the attention of the House some of the hard work done by organizations with whom I’ve dealt over the last few weeks.

Two of my constituents, Kamila and Bong, recently hosted a Haiti ARISE concert that brought together many churches in east Calgary, including Christ is Coming Church, Calgary Mosaic Church, Eastside City Church, U-Turn project ministries, Centre Street Church, Peace Chapel Church, Rockpointe Church, and the Way Christian Mission. In addition, Mr. Speaker, the Calgary Sikh community and the Dashmesh Culture Center as well as Radio SurSangam and radio Sabrang have raised approximately $25,000 for the Red Cross.

My friends here in Edmonton, the Sikh youth of Edmonton, recently held a fundraiser for an organization called United Sikhs that has medical professionals on the ground in Haiti. I believe they raised approximately $10,000. This earthquake shook not only the lives of those in Haiti but also the lives of many here in Alberta. Mr. Speaker, I would like to invite all members to join with me and show their appreciation for the fundraising efforts of these organizations as well as ones in their own communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre.

Good Neighbour Award Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I love living in Edmonton, and most of that is because of the spirit of Edmontonians. We participate. We volunteer officially and sometimes unofficially by just helping out a neighbour, a friend, even a stranger. One of the projects currently being sponsored by the city of Edmonton is the good neighbour award, now in its third year. This award is to recognize some of the thousands of people who take positive actions to make Edmonton safer, better, more fun.

This award is special for me this year because it is particularly encourag- ing people who live in multifamily buildings, like apartments and condos, as well as business owners and the not-for-profit agencies to consider nominating someone. Of course, the fabulous constituency of Edmonton-Centre is home to a lot of people who live in apart- ments and condominiums. The short stories and nominations received for the award in 2008 and 2009 were all inspiring and have confirmed a belief that it is the little everyday things neighbours do, those small gestures to assist each other, that make our city safe and livable.

The city put the stories together in a lovely booklet called Looking Out for Each Other. This whole venture is supported by the Realtors Association of Edmonton in conjunction with the city of Edmonton. Thank you to

February 10, 2010 Alberta Hansard 55 the Realtors Association of Edmonton for being very good neigh- bours and for supporting good neighbours. Nomination forms are available at all libraries or online at www.edmonton.ca/safeed- monton. And hurry, because the deadline is the 1st of March. I encourage all of our Edmonton MLAs and all of those living in our fair city to consider nominating their own good neighbour. Thank you very much. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Cardston-Taber-Warner. Terry Fox Run Commemorative Quilt Mr. Jacobs: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a privilege to rise today and recognize the town of Taber’s inspirational ongoing commit- ment to the Terry Fox Run. Every year the citizens of this compas- sionate community make an extraordinary effort to raise money in the fight against cancer. In 2008 this community of roughly 7,500 people broke records by raising nearly $51,000 over the course of the Terry Fox Run with help thanks to extra events, including head shave promotions and a stop by the Taber Tour of Hope. Last November the one-of-a-kind Terry Fox legacy quilt was unveiled in the Taber public library .

This incredible quilt is made from T-shirts from every single Terry Fox Run in Canada, including the province of New Brunswick. To collect these shirts, every Terry Fox Run co-ordinator in Canada was contacted about donating a shirt. Once collected, the quilt was assembled by the Taber Cotton Pickers Quilt Club, while Kaye’s Kwilting then completed the outside of the quilt. Now Taber’s focus turns to its 2010 run, which hopes to be as successful as in past years. Mr. Speaker, may I congratulate the citizens of Taber for their extraordinary efforts in the fight against cancer.

I know that this beautiful and unique quilt will serve as an inspiration to current and future participants in the Terry Fox Run. Thank you very much. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-North Hill. Darrell Cook Mr. Fawcett: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a privilege to rise in the House today and recognize the passing of a great Albertan, Mr. Darrell Cook. Darrell’s passing was brought to the attention of this House yesterday, and while we’re all saddened by this, I was most disappointed by the nature in which his passing was mentioned.

Darrell was a great Albertan in many ways, upholding the intrinsic values of what it means to be Albertan. He was hard working, entrepreneurial, compassionate, and giving. Darrell was president and chief executive officer of Gibraltar Mortgage. He was commit- ted to business, earning his CGA designation in 1977, and was director of Mainstreet Equity and Canex Energy. But this is not what Darrell will be remembered for. Darrell’s life was focused on serving his community and, more specifically, those that are most vulnerable in our community.

He was steadfast and deliberate in ensuring that those with disab ilities enjoyed the highest quality of life. He had an active leadership role in developing the Road Ahead Society, which was established in December 2000 in response to the needs of families with disabled children and adults. He was also involved with Calgary’s Family Managed Resource Centre as well as being involved in Family Voices Calgary and their Calgary Family Summit, which enables parents and family members to connect with each other. He was a contributor to many charities, a major donor to the Alberta Association for Community Living.

Darrell was instrumental in lobbying the Alberta government to implement the registered disability savings plan in a manner that maximally benefited people with disabilities and their families. Darrell and his wife, Sheilagh, were awarded the Colonel Eric Cormack and Dr. Barbara Cormack memorial award for their long- term voluntary commitment to fam ilies and their leadership in the development of new and innovative community initiatives.

In addition to this, he was a board member and current president of the Calgary-Varsity PC Association and an active member of the Calgary Winter Club and the Country Hills Golf Club. On behalf of the members of this Assembly I wish to express our condolences to the Cook family for their loss, a loss that will be felt throughout the province. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Airdrie-Chestermere. Provincial Fiscal Policies Mr. Anderson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Alberta once set the standard for sound fiscal management and responsibility both nationally and internationally.

Sadly, those days are long gone. Over the past several years almost no provincial or state government has raised their spending as much or as fast as this one. They have scrapped our no-deficit laws and plunged us back into debt, showing great disrespect to all the Albertans who sacrificed so much, even their own jobs in some cases, to achieve a debt-free Alberta for ourselves and for our children, and things are only getting worse. In Budget 2010 this government claims an expected deficit shortfall of roughly $4.7 billion.

This number is brutal on its own, but it actually underestimates the true cash deficit this government is running. You see, the $4.7 billion deficit number does not include an additional $2.8 billion in infrastructure spending that is offset on the government’s books as an asset, as stated on page 18 of their 2010 fiscal plan document. This is still cash going out. It’s just, essentially, hidden from public view. Taken together, the total cash deficit for this government is a staggering $7.5 billion.

Added together with Budget 2009’s cash deficit, that brings the total to – and I’m glad to see you’re sitting down, Mr. Speaker – $15 billion of red ink in just two years of work. 1:50 So how is this government paying for this? Partly by draining our shrinking sustainability fund, down from $17 billion just two years ago to $8 billion this year, and partly through debt financing, which is estimated to climb to $6 billion by 2012. Mr. Speaker, this PC government has failed Albertans.

They have totally mismanaged this province’s finances, and they are now heaping billions in debt and unsustainable spending on the backs of young Albertans. This government must be held accountable for this train wreck. head: Oral Question Period The Speaker: First Official Opposition main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Provincial Budget Dr. Swann: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Another budget full of spending without any sense of the value we’re getting for our money. While cuts weren’t drastic, how do we know the dollars we’re spending are getting the job done? To the Premier.

Spending more money doesn’t mean spending more wisely. How will Albertans know they’re getting value from the increased spending money this government is throwing at our problems? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, all of the spending is scrutinized by the Auditor General. He looks at all of the departments and many of the agencies that deliver services like Alberta Health Services and other

Alberta Hansard February 10, 201056 publicly funded agencies. That is the role of the Auditor General, and he has done a good job. Dr. Swann: This government is making a bet on commodity prices, that are risky to forecast. How can the Premier take a gamble with Alberta’s future by spending money that isn’t actually out of the ground yet? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, I believe in Alberta. I believe in the entrepreneurial spirit of this great province.

There are signs of economic recovery, but I can tell you that that does not mean that we put our heads in the sand and hope this all goes by without any major repercussions. There are huge global shifts. We’ve got to get into the marketplace. There’s huge compe tition for people, huge competition for investment. We just can’t sit around and wait for a brighter day. We’ve got to take action, and we have through this plan. We will have a balanced budget by 2012-13. Dr. Swann: Well, Mr. Speaker, I believe in responsible fiscal management. Just weeks ago this government claimed that the buffet was closed.

We’re not so sure. What specific changes are you putting in place that address, Mr. Premier, value for money rather than simply the amount of money? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that in infrastructure we’re getting tremendous value. We’re seeing tenders drop by 20, 30, and in some cases as much as 40 per cent. Over a third of that money on infrastructure will be spent by municipalities, so we’ll be able to redo all of the old water lines, sewer lines, build new roads, build schools, build hospitals for future generations. That is money well spent, and that’s just one part of the overall budget.

The Speaker: Second Official Opposition main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Health Care Budget Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Two days ago every Albertan knew that we were not receiving value for money in our health care system. Alberta Health Services’ and this government’s manage- ment of the health care system is a mess. Albertans also know that the only way to get better value for money is to use the money more effectively. To the Premier: what have you changed in the last two days that will mean Albertans will get better value for the extra $1.7 billion in the health care system?

Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, it was clear that by amalgamating all of the boards down to one, the Alberta Health Services Board, we saved about $600 million in administration. There was still $800 million that was a deficit within the health system. That gave us a better appreciation of the true cost of delivering health care in this province. There is no jurisdiction – no jurisdiction – in Canada that has given any health service authority five-year funding, increased funding over those years. Our population will be increasing; it’ll be aging.

We know that there will be more requirement of health services delivered. Now the board can plan successfully and deliver those services that Albertans require. Dr. Swann: We’re talking about value for money, Mr. Speaker. It may be a political fix to throw another $1.7 billion at health care, but a practical fix means Albertans have access to a family doctor. To the Premier: specifically, how many more family doctors will Albertans have access to with this increase? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, we are maintaining our plan in advanced education to keep increasing the number of seats.

We will be graduating more homegrown physicians in the province of Alberta. We will meet our target, and that also goes to complement all of the other health care providers – nurses, physiotherapists, the whole broad range of health care providers – that we will need in the future. Dr. Swann: Under this government’s incompetent management the deficits of the health authorities have increased year by year: $68 million, $297 million, then $343 million, and now a projected $759 million deficit. Is this not clear evidence that Alberta health care’s main problem is mismanagement? Mr. Stelmach: Mr.

Speaker, we know now the true cost of deliver- ing health care. We wrote off the deficit because that deficit is really part of the overall balance sheet of the province of Alberta. We’re starting fresh; we’re starting clean. We’re starting with a good plan. The minister will be consulting further this year with Albertans in terms of having our own Alberta health care act, that will enshrine the five principles of the Canada Health Act, and also listening to Albertans in terms of what else they would like to see.

I believe that we are blazing the trail here in a good health system, improving it, and most importantly it will remain publicly funded. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Provincial Budget (continued) Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Premier is determined to drain our precious savings account down to zero before the next provincial election. Yesterday’s budget turned the multibillion-dollar sustainability fund into this government’s personal re-election fund. [interjections] Oh yeah, laugh. To the Premier.

If the commodity prices go down, not up, the fund won’t last until the next election. What will you do then? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, through good, solid, prudent financial planning we’re going to be in the best economic position of any province in Canada. In fact, we’re going to lead this nation out of the recession. I have, as I said earlier, great faith in the economy of this province and in recove ry, and we will show by 2012-13 a balanced budget, money being put back in the sustainability fund to make sure that we’re prepared for the next economic downturn, whenever that may come. Mr. MacDonald: Mr.

Speaker, to the Premier: before the hon. Premier drains the sustainability fund, why not reduce the size of your bloated cabinet and save m illions and millions of dollars that can be used for children in need and those that are unemployed who need help? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, if I remember, using your calculation, I think the whole Legislative Assembly, this whole operation – all the members here, all of the benefits paid to members, the cost of running offices – is about .1 per cent of the total operating budget. There are savings. We cut about 8.6 per cent out of Executive Council.

There will be more savings coming out of the operations of this government. Let’s not fool ourselves. This is the worst economic recession since, well, the 1930s. Many economists are saying that. We have seen oil go from $75 to $147 down to $35. There is no jurisdiction in Canada that has a $17 billion surplus cash fund, especially for this

February 10, 2010 Alberta Hansard 57 kind of opportunity to cushion the blow on revenue and keep our services going. Mr. MacDonald: Mr. Speaker, that was quite an interesting response. I have a press release dated December 15, 2006, when the hon. Premier reduced the size of his first cabinet from 24 to 18. This is what the Premier stated: “The people of this province told me they wanted more effective government, not more of it.” What changed since then other than the fact that we now have a $4.7 billion deficit as a result of you and your government’s mismanagement? Mr.

Stelmach: Since 2006 considerably fewer Liberals on the other side. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Airdrie-Chestermere. Provincial Deficit Mr. Anderson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Monday the President of the Treasury Board suggested that I lacked math skills because of my outrageous claim that the actual budget deficits in 2009 and likely in 2010 would understate the true cash deficit by about $3 billion. Now, this is puzzling to me because on the bottom of page 18 of their document, Budget 2010, in very small print it clearly states that capital investment is not reported as an expense.

To the Treasury Board President: is the roughly $3 billion in capital investment included in the government’s final $4.7 billion deficit number or isn’t it? 2:00 Mr. Snelgrove: Sometimes people prove themselves correct. Mr. Speaker, there are two kinds of capital investment. There are capital grants that we give to municipalities, to health authorities, to schools. Those aren’t our assets; they’re theirs. That’s listed in line 3 on page 67 of the book very clearly. Further down it shows capital investment in government-owned properties, $2.8 billion, roughly.

That is accounted through amortization, which is clearly spelled out on page 78 and again on the bottom of page 79, and it is the most basic of accounting standards to follow. Mr. Anderson: Wow. That is good spin. Your own Treasury Board accountants explained this to me personally. Are their math skills in question as well? Mr. Speaker, it is clear despite the verbal jiu-jitsu from the President of the Treasury Board that the real cash deficit for Budget 2010 is $7.5 billion. This number is staggering.

To the Premier: will he admit to Albertans that the true deficit is $7.5 billion so that we can have an open and honest discussion in this House on how to get our spending under control? The Speaker: Who is answering this? Mr. Snelgrove: Mr. Speaker, we have just said goodbye to one of the most respected officers of this legislative building today, Mr. Fred Dunn. Mr. Dunn and his staff go through these books on a year-to-year basis with a fine-tooth comb. They have given us unqualified support for every financial statement we’ve produced.

The true cash cost of our government amortization this year is $519 million, as stated very clearly in our book, and has followed the same accounting principles for years and years and years. There is no attempt to hide any spending. Mr. Anderson: Oh. The last thing I need is a math lesson from a minister who has given us a $15 billion red ink in the last two years. The government appears to be financing their $7.5 billion cash shortfall by debt financing. In fact, it is projected that by Budget 2012 Alberta will have incurred $6 billion in debt, up from exactly zero when this Premier took over.

In my view, this is disrespectful to the thousands of Albertans who sacrificed so much to rid our province of this debt. To the Premier: at what level are we going to stop the debt? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, obviously, the member should have been taking a better look at the books. Every chartered accountant agency in Alberta, also the federal group that oversees accountants in the country of Canada, keeps telling us and all Albertans that we have the most open and transparent books in the nation.

We are not going to change that policy, and we’ll continue to ensure that we’re fully transparent with all of the spending that this Legislature approves. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar, followed by the hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. Health Care Budget (continued) Mrs. McQueen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday in the budget the minister of finance announced that there would be a new five- year commitment to health care funding, including $759 million to cover the accumulated deficit for the new superboard. My questions are to the Minister of Health and Wellness.

What is the rationale behind paying off the health care deficit at this time? Why now? Mr. Zwozdesky: Well, Mr. Speaker, the simple answer is that a bill has been incurred as a result of providing the kind of health services Albertans need. That bill has manifested itself into a deficit, and it has to be paid. The important thing to remember is, of course, that those monies have already been spent. Now we’re just covering them. Paying it off now also provides the new provincial board with a clean slate, as the Premier just indicated in the previous answer.

The provincial board is working very hard still to find efficiencies now that we have all of this c onsistent information flowing in in consistent ways. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mrs. McQueen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the new five-year commitment to funding and annual increases set out in the budget, what can we expect to see as improvements to our health care system as it pertains to accessibility and wait times, and how will the minister achieve these targets? Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr.

Speaker, we’re working very closely, obviously, with the delivery arm, which is Alberta Health Services, to ensure improvements, and t hose improvements will see them- selves coming to be as a result of a predictable and stable funding plan. I should say that it’s a five-year f unding plan, a first for this province and, I believe, a first for all of Canada. We’re going to reduce wait times for patients that are looking for help in the ER. We’re going to also speed up the access time to specialists, and we’re going to also speed up admission rates. So a lot is happening of a positive nature.

The Speaker: The hon. member.

Alberta Hansard February 10, 201058 Mrs. McQueen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My constituents want to know where we are going with health care in this province with the commitment of the five-year funding. Will the minister share a revised health care road map like Vision 2020 with Albertans, and if so, when? Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, a lot of that has already been shared with Albertans through the committee co-chaired by the MLA for Edmonton-Rutherford wherein the government accepted all four recommendations of the Minister’s Advisory Committee on Health.

That is one very clear indication that we’re serious about addressing the issues that are on Albertans’ minds. A blueprint for action will be ready through a consultative process that culminates in Septem- ber, and an Alberta health act will soon follow thereafter. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Nose Hill. PDD Funding Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Monday in the House the Minister of Seniors and Community Supports stated that she had found the funds needed for the PDD budgets through administrative and efficiency savings.

Could I ask the Minister of Seniors and Community Supports: would she table in the House the exact amount of funds that were clawed back from each PDD community board? Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I’d like to thank the member opposite for giving me the opportunity to tell the good news about my budget from our recent budget announcement. I’m one of the very few ministries that received an increase, a 2.2 per cent increase, almost $2 billion, and $43 million to spend within my budget. The audits and the bookkeeping are all made available to the public on the Internet and through my ministry.

The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I looked at the budget, it had gone from $604 million to $597 million. That was kind of, I think, a decrease. Can the minister guarantee that PDD will not face another mid- year cut this coming year that would be identical to what’s happened in the last few months? Mrs. Jablonski: Mr.

Speaker, I’m very proud to say that the PDD budget has remained the same, that we will be able to find efficien- cies within our administration and be able to distribute those efficiencies back to the front-line services for our PDD people, and that the core supports that they’re eligible for will remain the same. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister. I have great respect for people who have the conviction to stand out in the cold on the Legislature steps because, apparently, they weren’t allowed in.

We had PDD-supported individuals, front-line staff, and families here today concerned over the future of their supports. Has the minister actually talked to the front-line staff and those receiving s upport to ensure that the money taken back has not affected the quality of the supports that they depend on or that, in fact, they are still on a waiting list? Mrs. Jablonski: Mr. Speaker, I’m very proud to say that I’ve had meetings in the last two weeks, one with a group of people from Edmonton who are families and stakeholders, service providers.

On Monday I sat and I had a three-hour meeting with the Alberta community association for disability supports, ACDS. We were able to talk about their concerns and actually identify some solutions. The Speaker: Hon. Member for Lethbridge-East, you made an allegation about people being denied access to this building. Would you kindly convey to me in writing which people, when, what day? What are the circumstances? The hon. Member for Calgary-Nose Hill, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. Calgary Transportation Infrastructure Funding Dr. Brown: Mr.

Speaker, as a fast-growing urban area Calgary needs municipal funding support from the province in order to keep pace with the demands of Calgarians to move to and from work. According to a 2006 study transportation and logistic infrastructure was also the number one selection criterion for companies when making a decision about where to put new businesses. My questions are all for the Minister of Transportation. Can the minister assure Calgarians that his department will continue to invest in critically needed transportation infrastructure in our city? Mr. Ouellette: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I’d like to tell the hon. member that I believe yesterday’s budget was a very good-news budget, a budget that’s right for this time. We’re moving ahead on all the projects that we had planned. Just a few months ago we opened a large portion of the ring road in Calgary worth $1 billion. The entire ring road in Calgary is now 45 per cent complete, and we’re going to continue on till we get it done. We’ve also completed $200 million worth of work on the Deerfoot, and just a couple of weeks . . . The Speaker: And we’ll get to it, I’m sure. 2:10 Dr. Brown: Mr.

Speaker, that’s all very well and good, but we do know that the local governments set their own priorities. What is the minister doing to ensure that the city of Calgary’s priorities are accomplished in good time? Mr. Ouellette: Well, Mr. Speaker, Alberta Transportation is providing substantial funding to the city of Calgary to be used towards their projects or their priorities.

In fact, in the 2010-11 budget there’s over $160 million for Calgary through municipal infrastructure programs that includes the city transportation fund, basic capital grant fund, streets and improvements programs, and this is over and above the work that we are doing on our own provincial highways. Dr. Brown: Mr. Speaker, there seems to be some confusion over exactly what is provincial jurisdiction and what is municipal jurisdiction when it comes to transportation. Can the minister clarify who is responsible for what when it comes to transportation in our urban areas? Mr. Ouellette: Mr.

Speaker, as you know, I always am pleased to bring clarity to this House. My department is responsible for maintaining the provincial highway network, and that includes the ring roads, Deerfoot Trail, and all commuter highways into the city.

February 10, 2010 Alberta Hansard 59 Projects coming forward this year include 21 kilometres of the southeast ring road, three interchanges on Stoney Trail, continued upgrades to the Deerfoot, and there are also numerous waste-water and other area projects coming forward. No one can say that my department isn’t providing adequate transportation infrastructure funding to all municipalities in Alberta, including Calgary. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Fort. Postsecondary Education Affordability Mr. Chase: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday’s budget was another reminder that this government does not understand the connection between investing in education and diversifying Al- berta’s economy. My questions are to the minister of advanced education. Given that yesterday’s budget expanded access to loans but slashed funding for nonrepayable grants and bursaries, should Alberta students be grateful for the minister’s facilitation of an even greater debt load? Mr. Horner: Well, Mr.

Speaker, in Alberta today we lead the nation with our scholarships even after this budget is tabled and even after we did reduce some of the scholarship funds and two of the grant funds. If I give out $1 in grants, I can give out $3 in loans for that same dollar. We want to help more students with the funds that we have. Mr. Chase: You want to help more students go further into debt. Thank you for that clarification. Mr. Speaker, education equals economy.

By freezing operating grants to colleges and universities, is the minister signalling that he is going to allow institutions to replace the missing government funds through massive increases to tuition in professional faculties, which will effectively prohibit students from pursuing a professional career in Alberta? Mr. Horner: No, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Chase: Thank you very much. Students will look forward to that. At least one university is also considering slapping students with a $500 tax for nothing to fill its budget shortfall.

Will the minister show leadership by placing limitations on these outrageous noninstructional fees? Mr. Horner: Mr. Speaker, the fees that the hon. member is referring to are fees that all institutions in the province can levy that are outside the CPI cap. What we look at there is the overall affordabili- ty framework for students. We’ve lowered loans to prime. We have increased the amount of grants that we put out for graduate students and for undergraduate students over the last six years. We have increased the base operating grants to postsecondary institutions in the last six years by more than 42 per cent.

That is second to none to anyone in North America. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fort, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-McCall. Mr. Cao: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last week students at the University of Calgary joined together to protest the proposal to raise tuition in several professional programs, potentially making them out of reach for many young Albertans. This is a huge concern for my constituents, for students who are making decisions on their university studies, and for parents who are fearful they will not be able to provide the help they had hoped for their children.

My question today is to the Deputy Premier and Minister of Advanced Education and Technology. Why is the minister considering . . . The Speaker: The minister, please. We’ve had the time. Mr. Horner: Mr. Speaker, perhaps I can expand on the answer that I gave to the hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity when I simply said no. What I want to be clear on is that this government and this Premier remain committed to the tuition cap, the CPI cap.

Some of the postsecondary institutions felt that when we froze tuitions in 2004, there may have been some areas where we made an error because we didn’t go to them first and say: is the tuition level for these programs correct? We may have made some errors. Mr. Cao: To the same minister: did you or your department make any mistakes in 2004 when you froze tuitions? Mr. Horner: Mr. Speaker, I believe that in 2004 the decision to freeze tuitions at the levels that they were at was the right decision.

There were some specific programs that, potentially, we may have capped without consultation with either the students or the postsecondaries because it’s about maintaining affordability, and it’s about being able to maintain the program. Taxpayers in this province pay for 70 to 80 per cent of the cost of every program. The students pay the balance of that. We want to ensure that we’re getting good value for the dollars and that we have set the right price. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Cao: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again to the same minister: when can students and parents expect your decision so they can make their own financial decisions on postsecondary education? The Speaker: The hon. Deputy Premier. Mr. Horner: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a good question because it is fair to say that the institutions and the parents of the students all want to have a timely decision so that this fall they can make the right decisions as to the programs that they may want to enter.

It is certainly a top priority for this ministry and for me over the coming weeks to ensure that we get the proposals – I still have not seen the total proposals yet – and we’ll make a decision as the time goes on. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-McCall, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Condominium Property Act Consultation Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government’s approach to problems is to strike a committee and leisurely review the situation while real people suffer. One area where Albertans deserve real action is on changes to the Condominium Property Act.

Service Alberta says that it won’t be ready until 2012. To the Minister of Service Alberta. The condo act is actually out of date and hasn’t been substantially updated in 10 years. Does the ministry really think that making Alberta’s condo owners wait another two years is acceptable? The Speaker: The hon. minister.

Alberta Hansard February 10, 201060 Mrs. Klimchuk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With respect to the review of the Condominium Property Act right now we are working with a Condominium Property Act committee which consists of condominium owners, lawyers, property managers, and insurance providers. Part of that team is looking at moving forward and looking at some of the issues that need to be brought forward when we begin the consultation on the Condominium Property Act in the spring of 2011. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the minister again: how many condo owners have to get lost in the system while your committee studies or looks at the problem or pays tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees before the minister decides to take action? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mrs. Klimchuk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As said previously, the complexity of the Condominium Property Act was reviewed in 2000. Moving forward, we want to make sure that the review we do is comprehensive and effective, and the fact is that with the Ministry of Municipal Affairs, with the building codes there are issues there as well.

When you look at some of the correspondence that’s coming to my office with respect to condominium reserve funds, all of the issues that are out there, there are a lot of tough issues out there. So I’m very happy that a lot of Albertans are writing to me on that. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the minister again. The major problem with the condo act is that Albertans have to go to court to enforce it. Why is the minister not willing to move quickly to put some teeth into the condo act so Albertans don’t have to go to court to enforce it? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mrs.

Klimchuk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ultimately, with the Condominium Property Act, the way it’s set up now, there are courses of action that individuals can take if they want to go to legal action. Again, the review of the Condominium Property Act: there are so many new issues this year that were not there in 2000, so part of the problem is making sure that all of those issues are dealt with so that it’s comprehensive and what we end up with is real and effective. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Decore. Renter Assistance Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Last year government locked the doors on rent support for new applicants in August, saying that they couldn’t help the growing numbers of Albertans who couldn’t make their rents because they were, effectively, out of money. Now, as a result of the government’s policy to cut those who need help most, new applicants won’t be considered even earlier in the year, if at all, and current recipients may be pushed out early. To the minister of housing: why is this government knowingly setting up a situation that will force Albertans out of their homes and onto the streets? 2:20 The Speaker: The hon. minister.

Mr. Denis: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Nothing could be further from the truth. The member is correct. In fact, there is a $13 million reduction coming from this program, but that’s as a result of people being transitioned out of the system, people whom we’ve helped who no longer require our assistance. This ministry will continue to provide assistance to those people who need it the most. Thank you. Ms Notley: Well, Mr. Speaker, there were actually copious people looking for that assistance after August last year, and they couldn’t get it.

Now, yesterday the minister of housing said that it’s not an entitlement program. I would disagree, and I’m supported in that opinion by the United Nations’ declaration of human rights. Having a roof over your head is an entitlement, and if this minister doesn’t believe that, he’s in the wrong portfolio. Given his comments, will the minister tell this House exactly who he believes deserves housing and who he believes should end up on the streets? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Denis: Thank you again, Mr. Speaker.

The member opposite has raised an issue about our housing program and about whether or not there is an entitlement. In this government we believe in targeting the money to those who need it the most. Our policy is that we have a means test that is far more stringent than other provinces. Why? Because we want to help the people who are most in need. In British Columbia, for example: up to $100,000 of assets and you can still receive f unding under affordable housing. I think this is wrong. We should be giving money to those who need it the most. Ms Notley: Unfortunately, Mr.

Speaker, last August you stopped giving money to those who needed it most. Now, as of yesterday we have seen an overall depletion of funds for housing supports in this government for low-income people by one-third, so it’s absolutely ludicrous for this government to pretend they’re doing anything to address homelessness. Will the minister admit to all members that he has no intention of trying to end homelessness and that these misplaced priorities will actually make the problem worse? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Denis: Thank you again, Mr. Speaker.

I believe in being compassionate not only to those in need but compassionate to the taxpayer. We will still be on track with our 10-year plan to end homelessness. We are on track to create 11,000 new affordable units by 2012. Perhaps the member should read our business plan. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Decore, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. Mrs. Sarich: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government is suppos- edly working on that 10-year plan to end homelessness, but with the $13 million cut to programs it’s hard to take that commitment seriously.

Rent support reduction runs contrary to the homelessness plan’s main goal of getting people off the streets. To the Minister of Housing and Urban Affairs: won’t cutting rent supports only aggravate a problem your department is saying that it’s trying to fix?

February 10, 2010 Alberta Hansard 61 The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Denis: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Housing and Urban Affairs is a hot topic today. I’m happy to hear that. The Member for Edmonton-Decore is quite correct. Year over year we have reduced spending by about 19 per cent in our depart- ment; $100 million of this comes from the discontinuation of a three- year funding plan to the municipalities.

As I mentioned earlier, the measure of our success isn’t so much how many housing units we build or how much money we put into the program but, rather, how many people we can transition out so that they no longer need assistance. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mrs. Sarich: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I only have one supplemen- tal question. Before this budget about 80,000 Albertans a month, a good portion of them in Edmonton, were assisted through rent- support programs provided by the Ministry of Housing and Urban Affairs.

To the same minister: can he provide this House with an estimate of how many fewer Albertans will be helped out and what, if anything, he plans to do with them now? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Denis: Thank you again, Mr. Speaker. In this department we help people on a needs basis. Currently we’re helping 80,000 people, on average, every month to pay their rent; 800 of these through transitioning are brought through the system every month. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo, followed by the hon. Member for Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills. Bow Valley Wildlife Corridor Mr. Hehr: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. The fight for the completion of the Bow Valley wildlife corridor connecting Kananaskis to Banff has been going on for nearly two decades. Instead of simply completing the corridor, this government has stalled any action on the part of local municipalities and approved further recreational development in the area. To the Minister of Sustainable Resource Development: when will this ministry stop turning a blind eye to the building scientific evidence and co mplete the last three kilometres of this essential corridor? Mr. Knight: Well, Mr.

Speaker, as the hon. member would know, there is continuous work that goes on between a number of depart- ments in this government, particularly SRD but others as well. The ministry that I came from, Energy, and I believe Environment also and Municipal Affairs all have some hand in working towards solutions to these problems. We’ll continue to do that. Mr. Hehr: Well, I like to hear that a ll the ministries are working together, but it’s been two decades, so they’re working together rather slowly.

Anyway, if they could complete some of this corridor with the minimum 450 metres and include this action in the South Saskatchewan regional plan – will those be included in the corridor when it’s complete? Mr. Knight: Mr. Speaker, I would not be able to estimate at what point in time the whole corridor will be complete. I think we’ve had discussions over a period of time, that I could probably recall as likely 25 years, on the Y to Y corridor. This may or may not be part of that broader discussion. We’ll continue to work with the parties involved. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Hehr: Well, thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Like you indicated, it has been 25 years, and this corridor is crucial to the survival of many species, including – get this – grizzly bears. The BearSmart program is not sufficient action on the part of this government. Will this minister take the necessary steps and complete the Bow Valley corridor now? Mr. Knight: Well, Mr. Speaker, you know, the issue around species at risk is a very serious concern not only for Albertans but all Canadians. Many of the species at risk have been identified in the province of Alberta.

We work very, very hard with all of the people that use the landscape for recreation, for activities in industry relative to agriculture, the forestry business, and others. From the point of view of just, “Let’s build a corridor someplace, and then everything is going to be fine,” I think the issue is much broader than that. We’re looking at it in the land-use framework and will develop the proper amount of space for Alberta’s wildlife. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Ol ds-Didsbury-Three Hills, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Long-term Care Facility for Didsbury Mr. Marz: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. My constituents from Didsbury and area have been waiting for years now for a new long- term care facility that’s needed to replace a very old and substandard one. In fact, seven different ministers of health have been appointed to this portfolio during this wa it time and still no new facility in sight. My question is to the current Minister of Health and Well- ness. What can I tell the people of Didsbury and district this time? Are we getting this desperately needed new facility or not? Mr. Zwozdesky: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think you can safely tell them to remain cautiously optimistic.

That would include their knowing that I’m aware of the need and that we have an assessment going on right now. I’ll ask immediately for that assessment to be sped up so we can get that answer factually back to this hon. member ASAP. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Marz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister for that answer. The throne speech stated that monies raised by Alberta capital bonds would be used to replace continuing care and support- ive living facilities.

Why doesn’t the minister just commit to using some of those funds to build this facility now and just get on with it while construction costs remain low? Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, part of the answer, of course, is going to be unveiled here very soon, when we come forward with the capital plan for health facilities. That is being worked on as we speak. I will have the details, hopefully, ready just at the time the calendar switches over into the new fiscal year, and I’m hoping that the funds that will come in from the capital bonds issue will help complement our existing capital plan.

We’ll ensure that this project is given fair consideration. Mr. Marz: Again to the same minister. Our population in this area has grown significantly, and we have been waiting for so long for

Alberta Hansard February 10, 201062 this replacement facility that we now may actually need up to a hundred beds, not just 60. Would the minister ensure that the growth and aging factors will be included as part of your capital plan process for the Didsbury facility? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I drove through the area in question, Didsbury and the surrounding area, not long ago. I’m well aware of the needs there.

I’m very familiar with the need for other health care facilities across the province, not just in Didsbury but elsewhere, and I will ensure that the factors that he’s mentioned are included in that assessment along with all the other factors that health care providers and community caring people such as the hon. member have provided to us. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre, followed by the hon. Member for Whitecourt-Ste. Anne. Oil Sands Tailings Ponds Regulation Ms Blakeman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Alberta’s tailings ponds give us an international black eye.

They are an underfunded liability to Albertans and industry. They kill wildlife, and there’s a strong suspicion that they leak. We can’t blame industry for their choices or lack of action if the government doesn’t give clear, enforceable targets. Last year the ERCB put forward tailings performance criteria, and in October it was reported that seven of the nine projects will not meet the criteria by 2011 and some not for another 40 years. To the minister: is the minister concerned that these companies aren’t meeting the ERCB’s criteria? 2:30 Mr. Renner: Well, Mr.

Speaker, one of the issues that you have to deal with when you’re a regulator is balancing retrofits as opposed to new construction, and therein lies the issue. How do we incorpo- rate new technology into existing facilities? When the member talks about adherence to a new policy, I can assure her that the new developments will be required to adhere to the new policy. How we bring older developments up to those new standards will take some time. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. These tailings ponds can be seen from outer space.

Back to the same minister: what are the penalties if companies fail to meet the targets? Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, seeing something from space hardly qualifies it as an environmental hazard. I’d suggest that there are a lot of other things that can be seen from space as well. The fact of the matter is that we have standards in this province. We hold companies accountable to meet those standards, and we continually strive to move those standards forward. The way we deal with tailings ponds in the long term is by changing the technol- ogy. That reduces the need for the tailings ponds in the first place.

The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Thanks. I take it there are no penalties if they fail to meet the target, so the next question to the minister: when will this government require that best practice for cleanup technology be implemented by all companies across the board? Mr. Renner: It’s really fun to be in the opposition, Mr. Speaker, because you can pretty much say anything you want and never be held accountable. Like I said, Mr. Speaker, there are two very important factors when we discuss best practices.

One is on new developments, and clearly there is an opportunity and a need for us to have best practices. The other is: how do you retrofit existing facilities? I can assure this member that we are pushing the envelope very hard on industry to come up on both sides of the equation, retrofitting the existing and bringing the new ones online with the best technology available. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Whitecourt-Ste. Anne, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Glenmore. Propane Pricing Mr. VanderBurg: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Over the past little while there have been significant decreases in the cost of electricity, oil, and natural gas, and it has made life more affordable for many Albertans. At the same time the cost of propane has increased dramatically, and consumers like my constituent John Isley have felt the pinch. To the Minister of Energy: can you explain to me and to everyone here why the cost of propane has increased so much while other forms of energy have so dramatically decreased over the last couple years? Mr. Liepert: Well, Mr. Speaker, the member makes some state- ments and assumptions in his

preamble and talks about significant decreases in the cost of electricity, oil, and natural gas over the past two years. Clearly, those prices have gone up and down, and that’s the commodity market we’re in. I think it’s a little bit of a stretch to say that the price of propane has gone up dramatically. While we don’t necessarily regulate the price of propane or any of the other fuels, we do monitor fuel prices, and propane for the most part has remained steady over the past year. Mr.

VanderBurg: Well, given that answer, maybe you can explain to me and to this Assembly how the price of propane is linked to the price of natural gas. I always understood that there was some type of a link between the two. Mr. Liepert: Well, the linkage is that propane is a by-product of both natural gas and oil through the refining process, but the price itself is not necessarily linked. As I said in my first answer, they are all commodities. They trade on the international commodity market. Prices go up and down. A lot of th e price is set, in the situation of propane, on a local supply-and-demand basis, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. VanderBurg: Well, given that answer, again, I’ll go back to the Alberta gas protection act, when prices were $5.50 for natural gas, 50 cents for propane. Propane, 73 cents: I think it’s time that we enact a protection plan for those consumers. What are you going to do about it, Minister? Mr. Liepert: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think what we’re going to do about it is that we’re going to ensure that we don’t pick particular segments of the economy or of industry to subsidize and not subsidize.

I think we made it very clear when the natural gas rebate program expired about close to year ago now that we wanted to ensure that we promoted energy efficiency and conservation. Any time you start subsidizing, that doesn’t happen.

February 10, 2010 Alberta Hansard 63 The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Glenmore, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Executive Council Budget Mr. Hinman: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is no question that the best way to lead is by example. Albertans are doing this by balancing their budgets. The problem is that the Premier and the Executive Council are not. In recent years the Public Affairs Bureau has almost doubled to $14.3 billion, a modest 8 per cent cut. My question is to the President of the Treasury Board.

Why does this government not lead by example and cut the Public Affairs Bureau in half, to $7 billion? Mr. Snelgrove: Mr. Speaker, the Executive Council has cut their spending this year by 8.6 per cent. The Public Affairs Bureau in Alberta has a very important job to do. When you are a marketer of products that go around the world, the story that we have here needs to be sold around the world.

It also in many cases needs to be sold right here in Alberta so that Albertans that want to understand the facts about the oil sands or the facts about government spending or the facts about accounting principles get the true story. Mr. Hinman: Well, Mr. Speaker, maybe they should break it down so that Albertans can really see if there’s any value for it. I think they only promote their own propaganda. Mr. Speaker, Albertans want the Alberta advantage back, not billion-dollar deficits.

Will the President of the Treasury Board please explain to Albertans why there’s a $7 million program to rebrand the Alberta initiative? Mr. Snelgrove: So things like this don’t happen, Mr. Speaker: U.S. firms won’t use the tar sands because there are people, some in this House, that have the opportunity to go around and talk about the tar sands as if they’re evil and bad and that many, many Albertans don’t enjoy a good standard of living from them. Many don’t understand how much of Canada depends on the economic engine of Alberta.

Do we feel we have a little bit of responsib ility to go around the world and around this continent and sell Alberta’s story in a correct and factual manner? We certainly think we do. Mr. Hinman: This is the problem, Mr. Speaker. They’re spending $7 million for this freedom to create when they just destroy what people are creating here. Reckless spending is never acceptable, and in these tough times it’s even less desirable. The question is: why aren’t front-line services like health care, education, seniors, and providing for people with developmental disabilities accessible?

Will the President of the Treasury Board do the right thing and transfer $20 million from the Executive Council budget to these important services? Mr. Snelgrove: Mr. Speaker, what I would do is challenge the people at home that are watching this Assembly to get a pad and paper out and put it by their desk and to start to keep track of just how the questions come. Are they spending today? Are they saving today? Are they for business? Are they against business? I started last year myself. I had to create a whole new column: is it relevant to anything that people are concerned about?

That column was overtaking the spending or saving. People really need to watch, keep track for themselves, and they can judge. Are the questions here relevant, prudent, towards government policy, or are they simply about them pushing their own agenda? The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Tuition Fees for Postsecondary Education Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government claims to understand that the way out of this r ecession rests on the ability of Albertans to be part of a more educated workforce.

Now, last summer they inexplicably gave $180 million back to the liquor industry, yet today they’re asking students to take on $50 million more debt in order to get an education. Will the Minister of Advanced Education admit that this example of misplaced priorities is going to make education even less accessible for the Albertans who need it at the same time that liquor is more so? Mr. Horner: Mr. Speaker, I really don’t see the connection there.

What I will say is that we have not eliminated the loan relief completion program, which actually remits and forgives student loans for students who have completed their programs and who are in need. I’ll reiterate what I said earlier today. That is that we want to help as many students as we possibly can to achieve their dreams in our postsecondary institutions, and that’s exactly what we’re doing. Ms Notley: Well, Mr. Speaker, they’re achieving their dreams while they take on more and more debt.

Now, the U of A is talking about hitting students with a fee increase of roughly $500 a year, more or less 10 per cent of what tuition fees would be. This is in part because the government is failing to invest in the growing uni versity sector by freezing their operating dollars. How can you possibly claim to be using advanced education as a means to grow our economy when your funding policy clearly is designed to shift more costs to the very students you’re hoping to attract to higher education? 2:40 Mr. Horner: Actually, Mr. Speaker, our funding policy is not designed to shift costs to students.

Our funding policy is designed to ensure that we have the best system in North America and, in fact, parts of the globe. It’s designed to ensure that we have accessible and affordable postsecondary education for every student who wants and desires it. It’s designed to ensure that there’s an investment by the students. The hon. member, you know, doesn’t seem to realize that the students’ investment in their future is important not only to them but to society as a whole. I think what we’ve developed as a postsecondary funding formula, that we’re rolling out this budget, is second to none. Ms Notley: Mr.

Speaker, the minister suggested in the past that allowing astronomical increases to tuition in certain programs isn’t really an increase; rather, it’s just a reassessment of the original tuition level that was in place when they put in place their cap. But, really, it doesn’t matter how tortured a communications spin you put on the increase. The students paying tens of thousands more dollars each year for certain programs will still pay it, or they’ll choose not to enrol.

My question simply is: will you resist all requests to increase tuition in any program beyond the inflationary limits that you claim to have in place right now? Mr. Horner: Mr. Speaker, the freeze that we put on tuitions in 2004 was done very quickly, and perhaps in some areas of the over 3,500 different tuition levels across the province we may have made an error in one or two of those tuition levels. All we’ve said to the postsecondaries is that we’re willing to look at a proposal from them – this is not from government; from them – that would illustrate

Alberta Hansard February 10, 201064 whether or not there was an error made. If there was an error made, in order to protect the CPI cap, I think it behooves us to fix that error. We’ve had that discussion with the students. They understand what I’m trying to accomplish with the postsec ondaries. I don’t understand why the hon. member doesn’t. The Speaker: Hon. members, 18 members were recognized today: 12 opposition members, six government members. There were 106 questions and answers. In a few seconds from now we will return to the Routine. head: Presenting Petitions The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Calgary-North Hill. Mr. Fawcett: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to present a petition of 84 signatures petitioning the Legislative Assembly of Alberta for the preservation of the current charitable gaming model. It says: “We, the undersigned residents of Alberta, petition the Legislative Assembly to urge the Government to maintain the current policy for distribution of charitable gaming proceeds.” Thank you, Mr. Speaker. head: Introduction of Bills The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay. Bill 2 Professional Statutes Amendment Act, 2010 Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I request leave to intro- duce Bill 2, the Professional Statutes Amendment Act, 2010. This bill, if passed, would paraphrase the Health Professions Act by requiring professional regulatory organizations to consult with the ministers responsible and consider their comments prior to removing or approving a program of study for registration requirements.

This omnibus bill would ensure this pr ovision is included in the Archi- tects Act; the Engineering, Geological and Geophysical Professions Act; the Land Surveyors Act; the Professional and Occupational Associations Registration Act; the Regulated Accounting Profession Act; and the Veterinary Profession Act. If passed, Bill 2 would also update the language in both the Agrology Profession Act and the Regulated Forestry Profession Act, both of which have similar provisions already in place. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Motion carried; Bill 2 read a first time] The Speaker: The hon. Government House Leader. Mr.

Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move that Bill 2 be moved onto the Order Paper under Government Bills and Orders. [Motion carried] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-West. Bill 3 Fatal Accidents Amendment Act, 2010 Mr. Weadick: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to request leave to introduce first reading of Bill 3, the Fatal Accidents Amendment Act, 2010. This legislation will amend

section 8 of the Fatal Accidents Act, which awards a set amount of damages for bereavement to a surviving spouse; adult interdependent partner, or AIP; parent; or child of a deceased person. The current act limits the class of claimants eligible for damages. The limits are: no damages to parents if their deceased child was married or had an AIP and no damages to a child of a deceased person if the child was married or had an AIP. The proposed amendment will remove references to marital status currently found in

section 8 of the act. This reflects a decision made by the Alberta Court of Appeal and the current state of law in Alberta. The amendments will also remove the reference to illegitimacy as the current act defines child to include an illegitimate child. Consistent with current demographics and family law legislation all children are treated as children of their parents regardless of the parents’ relationship. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Motion carried; Bill 3 read a first time] Mr.

Hancock: I would like to move that Bill 3 be moved onto the Order Paper under Government Bills and Orders. [Motion carried] head: Tabling Returns and Reports The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have two tablings today. The first is an e-mail correspondence from Erin Kinloch-Galesloot regarding cutbacks to persons with disabilities. She is an individual with a disability, and having been supported by PDD, she’s been able to live independently with a roommate and work at a paying job like everyone else.

She’s very concerned that with the current cutbacks in PDD she’s going to lose that. The second e-mail is from Geoffrey Ryan, who’s also a constitu- ent. He is also writing with concerns over PDD funding cuts, expressing his utter disdain over the proposed cuts and worried specifically about how the funding cuts would affect the chances of finding a group home for his brother who has Goldenhar syndrome. He’s very worried about the burden that will be placed on the family.

Thank you. head: Tablings to the Clerk The Clerk: I wish to advise the House that the following documents were deposited with the office of the Clerk. On behalf of the hon. Mrs. Klimchuk, Minister of Service Alberta, errata for pages 15 and 342 of the 2010-11 government estimates, tabled on February 9, 2010. On behalf of the hon. Mr.

Liepert, Minister of Energy, a report dated December 23, 2009, entitled Assessment and Analysis of the State-of-the-Art Electric Transmission Systems with Specific Focus on High-Voltage Direct Current, Underground or Other New or Developing Technologies, prepared by Stantec. 2:50head: Orders of the Day head: Government Motions 2. Mr. Hancock moved:

Be it resolved that the Legi slative Assembly resolve into Committee of the Whole, when called, to consider certain bills on the Order Paper.

February 10, 2010 Alberta Hansard 65 The Speaker: This motion is not debatable. [Government Motion 2 carried] 3. Mr. Hancock moved:

Be it resolved that the Legisl ative Assembly resolve itself into Committee of Supply, when called, to consider supply to be granted to Her Majesty. The Speaker: This motion also is nondebatable. [Government Motion 3 carried] The Speaker: The hon. Government House Leader. Standing Orders Amendments 6. Mr. Hancock moved: A.

Be it resolved that the standing orders of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta be amended by adding the following after Standing Order 52.01: 27th Legislature 52.011 For the balance of the 27th Legislature the Standing Committee on Legislative Offices, the Special Standing Committee on Members’ Services, and each of the policy field committees shall consist of 12 Members. B. Be it further resolved that

(1) The amendments in this motion come into force on passage;

(2) The amendments in this motion shall have effect until the conclusion of the 27th Legislature. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This motion is with respect to the makeup of committees and changes that need to be made in that area. The Speaker: This motion is debatable. Anybody want to partici- pate? The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I understand the need for this motion, and in principle I support it in that the Government House Leader has chosen to expand the number of positions on these committees in order to incorporate the inclusion of members who are representing a fourth party in the Assembly now. I certainly do support that participation. My concern is a small one, more under the heading of a quibble. Nonetheless, I think it’s worth pu tting it on the record, and that is that the Government House Leader has chosen to make Government Motion 6 be in effect until the conclusion of the 27th Legislature.

Given the flux that we are experiencing at this moment, I’m less comfortable with having this put in place for effectively two years. We’re still expecting that we w ouldn’t see the next election until approximately two years from now, in the spring of 2012, which leaves us this spring sitting, fall sitting in 2010, spring in 2011, fall in 2011, and possibly a spring sitting in 2012 until we would revert back to the previous standing orders.

I would have preferred to see it in place just for 2010, given that there’s still some expectation there could be changes in membership of various caucuses. [interjection] Well, not that I’m planning on doing, but I keep hearing that this is going to happen. The Govern- ment House Leader might be in a better position to be talking about who is shifting from which side to another. Nobody is moving here, so I’m fine. But that was my c oncern overall, that we are putting this in place for, really, an extended period of time.

It’s half of the sitting time for the 27th Legislature, and I just found that was being a bit more enthusiastic than I thin k we needed with this particular motion. As I say, I do support the principle of including and recognizing the need to have participation on the Standing Commit- tee on Legislative Offices, on Members’ Services, and on the policy field committees, of which there are five, to have the participation of individuals from different caucuses. Thanks for the opportunity to put that on the record. I appreciate it. In principle I support what the government is doing here.

It’s the timing I’m not so happy about. The Speaker: It’s a debatable motion if others want to participate. Shall I call on the Government House Leader to close the debate or just call the question? Mr. Hancock: Call the question. [Government Motion 6 carried] The Speaker: The hon. Government House Leader. Committee Membership Changes 7. Mr. Hancock moved:

Be it resolved that the following changes to (

a) the Standing Committee on Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund be approved: that Ms Tarchuk repl ace Mr. Campbell, that Ms Tarchuk replace Mrs. Forsyth as chair, that Mr. Groeneveld replace hon. Mr. Denis, that Mr. Quest replace Mr. Kang; (

b) the Standing Committee on Legislative Offices be ap- proved: that Mr. Quest replace Mr. Horne, that Mr. Lindsay replace hon. Mr. Lukaszuk, that Mr. Hinman be appointed to fill a vacancy; (

c) the Standing Committee on Private Bills be approved: that Mr. Hinman replace Mr. Anderson, that Mr. Kang replace Mr. MacDonald, that Mr. Xiao replace Mrs. Forsyth, that Mr. Drysdale replace Mr. Quest; (

d) the Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections, Standing Orders and Printing be approved: that Mr. Groeneveld replace Mr. Johnson, that Mr. Hinman replace hon. Mr. Liepert, that Mr. Jacobs replace hon. Mr. Oberle, that Mr. Lindsay replace hon. Ms Redford, that Mr. Quest replace Mr. Rogers, that Ms Tarchuk replace hon. Mr. Zwozdesky; (

e) the Standing Committee on Public Accounts be approved: that Mr. Rodney replace Mr. Quest, that Mr. Rodney replace Mr. Quest as deputy chair, that Mr. Anderson replace hon. Mr. Denis, that Mr. Weadick replace Mr. Jacobs, that Ms Calahasen replace Mr. Drysdale; (

f) the Special Standing Committee on Members’ Services be approved: that Mr. Campbell replace Mr. Fawcett, that Mr. Campbell replace hon. Mr. Oberle as deputy chair, that Mr. Anderson be appointed to fill a vacancy; (

g) the Standing Committee on Community Services be approved: that Mr. Bhullar replace Mr. Bhardwaj, that Mr. Anderson replace hon. Mr. Lukaszuk; (

h) the Standing Committee on the Economy be approved: that Mr. Bhardwaj replace Mr. Campbell, that Mr. Bhard- waj replace Mr. Campbell as chair, that Mr. Fawcett replace Mr. Bhullar, that Mr. L und replace Mr. McFar- land, that Ms Woo-Paw replace Mr. Xiao, that Mr. Boutilier be appointed to fill a vacancy;

Alberta Hansard February 10, 201066 (

i) the Standing Committee on Hea lth be approved: that Mr. McFarland replace Mr. Horne as chair, that Mr. Groene- veld replace Mr. Dallas, that Mr. Lindsay replace Mr. Fawcett, that Mrs. Forsyth be appointed to fill a vacancy; (

j) the Standing Committee on Pub lic Safety and Services be approved: that Mr. Drysdale replace Mr. VanderBurg, that Mr. Drysdale replace Mr. VanderBurg as chair, that Mr. Rogers replace Mr. Anderson, that Mr. Xiao replace Ms Woo-Paw, that Mr. Boutilier be appointed to fill a va- cancy, that Mrs. Forsyth be appointed to fill a vacancy; (

k) the Standing Committee on Resources and Environment be approved: that Mr. Dallas replace hon. Mr. Denis, that Mr. Mitzel replace Mr. Drysdale, that Mr. VanderBurg replace hon. Mr. Oberle, that Mr. Anderson be appointed to fill a vacancy; (

l) the Select Special Auditor General Search Committee be approved: that Mr. Quest replace hon. Mr. Lukaszuk. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a result of the last motion we now have the opportunity both to add members to the committees in respect of the fact that there are a number more members sitting as independents in the House under the WRA Party banner and to make changes to the standing committees based on the fact that there have been changes in Executive Council and other changes on our caucus side. I have requested changes from both the Liberal caucus and the ND caucus.

There were a couple provided, and they’ve been incorporated. This should accomplish everything we need to accomplish, at least pending further developments as speculated by the House leader from the opposition side. I don’t know who she was talking about from her caucus that might be moving, but this should accomplish it for us. The Speaker: It’s a debatable motion. Shall I call on the hon. Government House Leader to close the debate or call the question, then? Hon.

Members: Question. [Government Motion 7 carried] The Speaker: Hon. members, before we go on, the chair wants to raise a point with respect to the last two motions, 6 and 7. I’m pleased that there’s agreement in the House. There’s nothing in either of these motions about where the funds are to come and pay for these extra stipends and salaries . This is not the first time that this has happened in this Assembly, and it becomes incumbent upon, then, the Speaker to try and find the funds.

So I’m going to listen very attentively to hon. members in this Assembly in their questions and their responses about spending without making decisions as to where the spending is to come from when I have to deal with this matter. The Speaker: The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. 3:00 Provincial Fiscal Policies 5. Dr. Morton moved:

Be it resolved that the Legislative Assembly approve in general the business plans and fiscal policies of the govern- ment. [Adjourned debate February 9: Ms Blakeman] Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As Leader of the Official Opposition it’s a duty and privilege to rise today and respond to yesterday’s budget. I’m frankly astounded by the haphazard nature of this budget: massive spending increases in certain areas offset by drastic cuts in others. Far from striking a balance, this budget throws Alberta wildly off balance with no plan for sustainable spending and our province’s future prosperity in jeopardy.

This is a balancing act all right, but it’s like a high-wire performance, a big show for the audience with potentially catastrophic consequences. Only it’s like the minister of finance is sitting safely on the sidelines, poking Albertans out onto the high wire without a net. Over and over again during my time as Leader of the Opposition I’ve stated my belief that Alberta is in dire need of government that understands the importance of planning for the long term. Albertans have told me that they share this view, but clearly this Tory adminis- tration has no concept of what a long-term plan entails.

Why else would they lurch from budget to budget, shifting priorities on the fly, commissioning studies only to abandon them, ignoring the advice of our Auditor General, and passing a law to make deficit spending illegal only to repeal that law as soon as oil and gas prices collapse? Is it a spending problem, or is it really a competence problem, Mr. Speaker? We believe this budget confirms that this government has a competence problem.

Both as a physician and a medical officer of health I took a careful, comprehensive approach to assessing problems, coming up with solutions in consultation with patients, and following up to be sure that my solutions were working then amending as necessary. For example, if a patient came in to the office with a headache, I couldn’t just give him a pill and send him away. I needed to know his medical history, what other medications he might be taking, what other medical conditions he had, problems at home and work, and so on.

Once deciding together on a course of action, we would monitor the patient’s progress together a nd make changes to treatment as necessary. The same common-sense approach must be applied and should be applied to policy problems. The state of public health care, the condition of our economy, social issues such as homelessness and child care: all of these require a responsible leadership to consider the big picture without the baggage of ideology or personal preju- dice.

Comprehensive analysis, full assessment, action, monitoring, and amendments as needed: that’s the approach a responsible government would take to the big issues of the day. Instead, we have ad hoc policy designed to address partisan political problems while many equally important issues get swept under the rug. The cut to children’s services, for example, is a scandal. The decision to slash nearly $40 million from a crucial program is beneath contempt, especially when the amount being cut is the same as the amount being devoted to subsidizing the dying horse-racing industry. Mr.

Speaker, Albertans care about children a helluva lot more than they care about horse racing. I’m profoundly disap- pointed by the lack of empathy and short-sightedness displayed by this administration’s decision, espe cially given the news stories of troubled foster families this past week.

Yesterday I talked about the impact of this administration’s cuts on Alberta’s students – the next generation of engineers, tradesmen, scientists, doctors, artists, the leaders and builders of tomorrow – over $200 million cut from Advanced Education and Technology, creating even higher student debt and imperilling access to postsecondary education. If there’s one investment that could lead to creating a sustainable economy for Alberta, surely it’s education. But this administration, with typical short-sightedness, just made it harder for countless Albertans to achieve their full potential.

The consequences of this decision will affect Alberta’s prosperity for a long, long time to come.

February 10, 2010 Alberta Hansard 67 It certainly makes it no easier to address our critical shortages of health care professionals. That $2 billion added to the health care budget won’t help much without new doctors and professionals to make the system work. Clearly, the heartfelt but logical appeal of University of Calgary medical students Rithesh Ram and Natarie Liu, whose letters I read yesterday in the House, fell on deaf ears.

Student debt, already crippling, is going to rise even higher, and I don’t see how the minister of advanced education is going to deny any of the proposed tuition increases given these cuts. High youth unemployment, declined registered education savings plan values, frozen minimum wage: all these factors, combined with this adminis- tration’s cuts to advanced education, make this a terrible time to be a postsecondary student in Alberta.

Slashing income supports in an economic r ecession shows not only a lack of compassion for Albertans struggling to cope but again reinforces this administration’s reputation for short-sightedness. You predict that the unemployment picture is not going to improve in the near term, so why cut benefits? They’re going to be needed, especially since employment lags behind general economic growth. It takes time to recover lost jobs. In the meantime Alberta families will struggle to cope. The choices made by this administration reveal a, quote, flavour- of-the-month mentality.

It recognized correctly that Albertans are concerned about health care, but rather than addressing the complex problems of management and resource allocation, it has decided to take the easy road and, in relation to health care in particular, throw money at the problem. I can’t imagine how the minister of finance wrapped his head around this administration’s incredible $2 billion increase in health care spending. In fact, there was a comment on Twitter yesterday that I thought was both funny and revealing. I’m paraphrasing: Mr.

Premier, when your finance minister is in tears while reading the budget, that’s not a good sign. You know, if I’d called upon this government to increase the health budget by $2 b illion, the heckling from that side of the Assembly might very well have brought the House down around our heads. Yet here we have an ideologically conservative administra- tion, or at least, certainly, an ideologically conservative minister, or so he tries to appear, telling Albe rtans that their prescription for saving health care is throwing dump truckloads full of money at the system.

As a medical doctor I can tell you that, yes, the system needs money, but what it needs most is competent management. Given this administration’s disastrous record with public health care, why should anyone believe that this huge increase in the system’s budget will actually lead to better results? This administration’s own throne speech, delivered just days ago, admitted that Alberta receives far less value per dollar spent on health care than other provinces. Now we’ll receive even less value per dollar, because I don’t trust this administration to use those extra resources any more efficiently.

In fact, by cutting child intervention services and income supports, this will foster situations that cause bad health outcomes for hundreds, perhaps thousands of Albertans, and they’ll wind up in the health care system, costing that system much more in the long run. I find it incredibly ironic that two years ago this very administra- tion was trying to tell Albertans that health care spending was out of control. Oscar Wilde might not have been a big fan of consistency, but I think most Albertans do not want a government that’s con- stantly sending out mixed messages.

A few months ago this administration claimed that it could find $2 billion in savings through greater efficiency. You seem to have come up about $700 million short and certainly haven’t found any appreciable efficiencies in health care, not when, as I explained yesterday, there are cases of keeping patients in intensive care units for days at a cost of thousands of dollars rather than shelling out less than a hundred dollars for antibiotics.

Or cases like a former friend forced to wait too long for what would have been an easy, inexpen- sive gall bladder operation, but delays resulted in a potentially life- threatening infection, costing the system thousands of dollars and, more importantly, resulting in a vastly less desirable health outcome for my friend. Yesterday in my response to the throne sp eech I shared some stories from the many Albertans who have contacted us with stories of how they’re trying to cope with this administration’s mistakes.

I shared those stories because I think it’s important that we all remember that the decisions we make as elected representatives have real impacts on real people every day: our neighbours, our fellow citizens, the people that we have been entrusted to serve. When we fail them, we fail in our primary reason for being in the Assembly. I hope that at least a few government members will take these stories to heart because we all share some responsibility for them. 3:10 Here is one I did not bring up yesterday. After 10 years of billions of dollars in surplus we now find ourselves with $4 billion in deficit.

Where did the money go? I live on a disability pension; I don’t have lot of money to throw around. I have multiple sclerosis, and on occasion I need a chiropractor and some adjustments. But Mr. Liepert saw fit to delist these treatments, and now I cannot afford to go to a chiropractor. I have no balance. I fall frequently and require adjustments often. Also, I cannot afford my prescriptions because the minist er of health raised the price of the plus for Blue Cross from $44.00 to $82.00 per month. Doctor appointments are over a month’s wait. The more you can do, please do, and more power to you. We need help.

Here’s another. I asked for hospital beds, not a $250 million a year ambulance transition. In April this year Alberta Health Services took over emergency medical services throughout Alberta at a cost of $250 million a year, forever, after refusing to release publicly the findings of the EMS discovery project in the former Peace and Palliser health regions. What is our health minister trying to hide? I wrote my local government MLA and received this response from her in writing.

She stated: “I am unable to share these findings with you,” and later, “The findings of the EMS discovery projects cannot be released publicly.” Disgusting. Very George Bush style of governance. This was a great selling feature to taxpayers. For example, in Calgary, where EMS operations were close to $30 million a year, this was not supposed to be passed down to us. Then why is it I am now facing a 4.8 per cent property tax increase? The system is clearly not working. To conclude, Mr. Speaker, believe me, these stories represent just the tip of the iceberg.

To paraphrase Shakespeare: this surely is the winter of Alberta discontent. This budget uses a boatload of cash to wallpaper over problems while failing to address fundamental issues of poor governance, mismanagement, and the failure to consider the long-term implications of habitual, moment-to-moment decision- making. I believe that as a society we must do our best to live within our means so th at future generations will not be compro- mised. As our First Nations citizens might say: we do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.

This budget borrows heavily indeed from the next generation of Albertans. I only wish I could believe that this administration had the skills to put this loan to best use. Clearly, Mr. Speaker, we are dealing no longer with merely a financial problem but with a competence problem. There is a better way. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: Hon. leader, you were aware you had up to 90 minutes if you so chose? Okay. Thank you very much. The hon. Member for Airdrie-Chestermere.

Alberta Hansard February 10, 201068 Mr. Anderson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’m grateful to rise on behalf of the Wildrose Alliance opposition caucus and also on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of very disappointed fiscally responsible Albertans across this great province of ours to respond to this government’s latest red ink smeared budget. Mr. Speaker, Budget 2010 is a stunning illustration of the profound mismanagement of our province’s finances by this PC government.

According to Budget 2010 the government of Alberta is expecting to spend roughly $38.7 billion this year against revenues of approximately $34 billion. This implies a budgetary deficit of $4.7 billion. An additional $2.8 billion in so-called capital invest- ment is not accounted for in the government’s current deficit projection. Again, I would point to page 18 of the government’s 2010 fiscal plan.

This brings the government’s real cash deficit to a staggering $7.55 billion, which it plans on financing using debt, which is now reaching a bout $4.4 billion from the past two years, and draining the province’s sust ainability fund from roughly $15 billion last year to $8.2 this year, and optimistically down to $2.8 billion by 2012.

This vast swath of red ink is similar to that of Budget 2009 and is evidence that this government has yet again failed to bring spending under control despite repeated warnings to do so or face the prospect of higher taxes, a return to massive debts, and further erosion of the Alberta advantage. A Wildrose Alliance government would not permit this to happen, Mr. Speaker.

Although Albertans expect their elected representa- tives to protect front-line social programs like health, education, and PDD while providing critical public infrastructure, they also expect their government to responsibly protect the Alberta advantage, live within their means, and prioritize needs before wants.

Although erasing the $7.55 billion cash deficit in one year is not practically possible without heavy cuts, the Wildrose Alliance opposition caucus believes the government can cut this cash deficit by approximately $4.67 billion down to roughly $2.88 billion, which is a 62 per cent reduction from the government’s projected cash deficit of $7.55 billion. We can do this as a House by implementing the following spending adjustments. First off, we should spread the $20.1 billion capital budget over 4.5 years rather than three years. This yields a budgetary savings of nearly $2.79 billion in 2010 alone.

This would still leave Alberta’s per-person capital expenditures slightly above that of British Columbia and behind only Newfoundland and Quebec. Second, we should indeed increase health and educational operational spending, but we should do so in line with inflation plus population growth, which the government says is 3.5 per cent, rather than the astounding Budget 2010 increases of 13.7 per cent in health and 4.6 per cent in education. This would yield a savings in 2010 of $1.33 billion.

Next, we would suggest delaying, until the economy recovers, the Green TRIP mass transit initiative for a savings of $70 million. We would cancel the wasteful and unproven $2 billion carbon capture and storage experiment, saving Albertans $100 million this year. We would eliminate Alberta’s venture capital fund. Governments should not be allocating funds to private business ventures. This would return $100 million to the balance sheet in 2010. We would also cut corporate subsidies for product commercializa- tion. The government, as Premier Klein said over and over again, has no business being in business.

This would save Albertans an additional $110 million in Budget 2010. With all due respect to the former minister of agriculture, who is a good friend and was a very competent minister, we would suggest terminating the Alberta Livestock and Meat Agency. Marketing beef is a role for private farmers, agricultural marketing organiza- tions, and private business, not the government of Alberta. This correction will save roughly $50 million in 2010.

We would reduce the size of cabinet from 23 to 16 by combining, among others, Infrastructure with Transportation, Treasury Board with Finance and Enterprise, Municipal Affairs with Housing and Urban Affairs, just to name a few examples. This will save Alber- tans approximately $44 million. We would end the direct subsidization of horse racing to the tune of $25 million per year. Through retirement and natural attrition we would increase the government’s worker-to-manager ratio from its current 4 to 1 ratio to 12 to 1, understanding that the ratio in the private sector can be as high as 25 to 1.

Surely we can come halfway. This will save Albertans approximately $35 million this year alone. We would cut the government’s communications/Public Affairs budget in half, saving taxpayers $7 million. We would end Executive Council’s wasteful and misguided rebranding initiative and save $7 million this year alone. Again, these proposals will reduce this government’s real cash deficit of $7.55 billion by $4.67 billion to a much lower and more manageable deficit number of $2.88 billion.

It is also important to note that these proposed adjustments would not cut the government services Albertans deem most important, such as health care, education, PDD, seniors, or public security. They would simply limit their departmental increases to the rate of inflation plus population growth. 3:20 More importantly, these adjustments make it possible to eliminate the province’s real cash deficit by next year without the need to deeply cut core social programs.

The PC government, even if all their rose-coloured projections pan out, will keep Alberta in a cash deficit position well past 2012, contrary to their claims of being back in the black by that time. It should also be clearly understood that these proposed adjustments do not take into account the billions more in potential savings that would be achieved through much- needed systemic reforms to our public health care system and other high-cost government social programs as well as by negotiating a much fairer equalization arrangement with Ottawa, both of which this PC government has utterly failed to accomplish.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to turn to the issue of this government’s hidden deficit in more detail. This was talked about in question period today. The government of Alberta is claiming a $4.7 billion deficit in 2010, but that is not the whole story. There is at least one large set of expenses that is not included in the budget deficit number. Total capital spending is projected to be $7.2 billion, yet only $4.4 billion in infrastructure spending is accounted for by the final deficit number.

An additional $2.8 billion of capital investment in government-owned assets is not included in the government’s quoted deficit number. It says so right on page 18 of their own budget document. Therefore, the government of Alberta’s true cash deficit is a shocking $7.55 billion. Perhaps I could show more proof. Besides the notation on page 18 I would also turn members’ attention to page 67, where it specifically notes that the sustainability fund projected total from this year to next will decrease from $15 billion to $8 billion. That’s a difference of $7 billion that is going out the door.

In addition, another $1.5 billion in debt on top of that is also allocated in this budget. So that is $8.5 billion going out that we are not bringing in. That does not equal the $4.7 billion that the government is suggest- ing the cash deficit really is. There is a huge discrepancy there.

February 10, 2010 Alberta Hansard 69 Now, I’m not saying that it’s intentional or anything else, but I would hope this government eventually would admit that this year we are spending $8.5 billion more than we are taking in, and we are financing it through the sustainability fund to the tune of $7 billion and $1.5 billion in debt. This is totally unacceptable to Albertans. There is no excuse for this.

While our budget proposals that I’ve talked about would reduce this cash deficit substantially to roughly $2.88 billion, this PC government has been so fiscally irresponsible that it would be impossible to balance the books in cash terms without more aggressive cuts to public spending, which would not be prudent in today’s market conditions and is something we would not recom- mend. I guess the question, Mr. Speaker, is: how did we get into this mess? Alberta has not been in a deficit position since Don Getty was Premier.

Indeed, the market conditions in the world today are difficult, and many governments are struggling. We fully admit this and understand this. However, that is not a good enough excuse for the degree that we have fallen fiscally in this province. It is clear that since the late Klein years and throughout the entire current administration this PC government has allowed spending to run completely out of control. I saw this consistent inability to restrain spending first-hand for two years.

Every member of the government caucus knows full well that I along with others in the caucus that are still there today spoke out on this issue, me person- ally during my nomination race, the 2008 election, and for two years in the PC caucus. Finally, admittedly, I gave up on this caucus’s ability to ever act in a fiscally responsible way. It was for that reason as well as the total lack of caucus democracy, which I spoke of in the media last month, that I left the PC caucus last month. It was a frustrating experience.

I could never seem to get the Premier’s inner circle, including the Treasury Board president or the Deputy Premier, to understand the necessity of consistent, legislated fiscal restraint. Beginning in the 2003-04 budget year, if the government had merely restrained spending increases to the rate of inflation plus population growth, overall spending would have been approximately $8.3 billion less today than currently projected. Furthermore, following this path of restrained spending would have resulted in much larger surpluses, which could have been used to build savings in the heritage trust fund.

In fact, had both Mr. Klein during his last four years and the Premier today exercised fiscal prudence and held total government spending growth to the rate needed to keep up with inflation plus population growth, Alberta would today be looking at a budget surplus of $3.9 billion – a surplus of $3.9 billion – rather than a record deficit. Mr. Speaker, despite this government’s failing record there is still time to turn this ship around. There are still fiscal conservatives in that government caucus. I know that first-hand. I’d ask them to speak up as we go through these budget deliberations.

We can and must restore Alberta to strong fiscal health, and the Wildrose Alliance caucus has a plan for doing just that. First, we must get our current cash deficit under control and retired by next year. Piling up billions in debt on the backs of future generations to dull the pain of a self-inflicted spending hangover is the height of irresponsibility. So, too, is expanding the size of government entitlement programs to the point where the only way to adequately fund such is to raise taxes or increase debt on future generations.

The budget deficit can be dealt with in the short term by imple- menting some of the fiscally responsible strategy that we’ve noted. For example, as discussed, spread the capital budget from three years to over four and a half years, and then keep that budget line for infrastructure consistent with the rate of inflation plus population growth. We currently spend about two times – two times – more than the next closest province in Canada on infrastructure. We don’t need everything right now. We can wait another 18 months and be responsible to future generations.

Bringing our level of capital spending down to slightly more than B.C., behind only Quebec and Newfoundland, would save future Albertans a great deal of inflation and unnecessary debt. We also need to restrain health and education operational spending to a healthy and sustainable rate of increase, again being the rate of inflation plus population growth, at least un til the time when spending in these areas falls more in line with other Canadian provinces. We’re way, way out in front on that, and we’re not getting the results that we need.

Over the long term the government of Alberta must begin to practise good old-fashioned fiscal restraint. Clearly, nonrenewable resource revenues are very volatile. In Alberta we have developed a reliance on these revenues to feed our spending habits. We need to reform our spending practices by, first, legislating a cap on year- over-year increases in government spending to the rate of inflation plus population growth.

Instituting this measure, which has proven extremely effective in other jurisdictions, will ensure that spending is controlled through good times and bad while providing the funds necessary for successful core social programs and required infra- structure. It will also have the effect of curtailing the size and scope of government bureaucracy as departments look for innovative ways to provide more efficient and better services by reallocating existing resources rather than simply asking for more money in funding while perpetuating outdated and wasteful programs.

In fact, if our federal and provincial governments of the day had controlled spending in this way starting in 2000, both would be running large surpluses this year despite being in the midst of a global recession. I would hope that the hon. finance minister will do what he has repeatedly, over and over again, said needs to be done and what the Premier has even alluded to, and that is, in the case of the finance minister, to pass a legislated cap on spending. There is no legitimate excuse in this environment not to do that. [Mr. Anderson’s speaking time expired] The Speaker: Thank you, hon. member.

Hon. members, Standing Order 29(2)(

a) is available for offering a five-minute question-and-comment period. Oh, my Lordy; three members. The hon. Member for Whitecourt-Ste. Anne, and then the hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. Mr. VanderBurg: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It was an interesting conversation that you just had, and I was listening. You talked about the Horse Racing Alberta piece. Many people don’t understand that unless the horse-racing industry earns money, we don’t get that money, and we don’t get to keep our share of that money. It’s based on an agreement where Horse Racing Alberta earns money, government keeps some, sends some back.

I’d say to this member: are you going to say that the agreement that Horse Racing Alberta has with the government of Alberta should be broken, and then, in turn, we don’t build the track in your riding and do that big invest- ment in Airdrie? Is that what you’re saying? Mr. Anderson: What I’m saying is that being with the Solicitor General, who did a fantastic job in that department, one of the things I became aware of or looked into was this very issue. That $25 million is actually not from receipts or anything like that. It’s strictly VLT money that goes directly to Horse Racing Alberta.

If we’re going to start doing that, let’s start funding every society and community organization doing that. That’s a one-off deal that was made by the previous Premier. I don’t think it’s something that we should brag about.

Alberta Hansard February 10, 201070 3:30 The Speaker: I think I’d better recognize the hon. Member for Lethbridge-East first. Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When you are speaking about that debt, have you included the $100 million bond issue that will be coming out next week plus the interest that we aren’t sure of what the percentage will be? Was that included in your comments? Mr. Anderson: Yes, it was. That was part of the increased debt load that this government has been responsible for. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Glenmore. Mr. Hinman: Yeah. I was wondering if the hon.

Member for Airdrie-Chestermere had some other comments on nonrenewable resources and the impact that it would have on our long-term finances. Maybe he could expound a little bit more on that area. The Speaker: Recognizing that other members want to participate as well, go ahead hon. Member for Airdrie-Chestermere. Mr. Anderson: I would love to do that. Thank you very much for that offer. I would say that the second component of a long-term fiscal plan surrounds the need to reduce our reliance on volatile nonrenewable resource revenues.

I think that we can do this through the implementation of an aggressive heritage fund savings strategy. If we cap spending to inflation plus population growth, revenues would begin to outstrip the newly restricted spending levels, giving us the ability to invest a substantial portion of the resultant budget s

Document details

Collection	Alberta — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20100210
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	L27 S3 20100210 1330 01 han.pdf
Language	en
Format	json
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	f280d9ca36e7d69ca6f05533018c81b1a54c9db9

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