Manitoba Hansard — 10 December 2002 (Sitting 10, 37th Legislature, 4th Session)

37-4-10

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session - Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LII No. 10 – 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 10, 2002

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY First Session–Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thom pson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C.

ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P.

MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

371 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 10, 2002 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Standing Committee on Law Amendments First Report Mr. Doug Martindale (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the First Report of the Committee on Law Amendments. Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Law Amendments pre- sents the following as its First Report. An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Chairperson: Dispense.

Meetings: Your committee met on Monday, December 9, 2002, at 10 a.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters Under Consideration: Bill 2 – The Civil Remedies Against Organized Crime and Liquor Control Amendment Act/Loi sur les recours civils contre le crime organisé et modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des alcools Bill 3 – The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législative Bill 4 – The Fire Departments Arbitration Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'arbitrage relatif aux services de pompiers Committee Membership: Your committee elected Mr. Jennissen as the Vice-Chairperson. Substitutions received prior to commencement of meeting: Mrs. Smith (Fort Garry) for Mr. Cummings Mr. Dewar for Hon. Mr. Sale Mr. Aglugub for Hon. Mr. Selinger Hon. Mr. Mackintosh for Hon. Mr. Lathlin Hon. Ms. Barrett for Hon. Ms. Mihychuk Mr. Schellenberg for Ms. Cerilli Public Presentations: Your committee heard one presentation on Bill 4 – The Fire Departments Arbitration Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'arbitrage relatif aux services de pompiers, from the following rganization: o Don Fotti, President of Professional Paramedic ssociation of Winnipeg A Bills Considered and Reported: Bill 2 – The Civil Remedies Against Organized Crime and Liquor Control Amendment Act/Loi sur les recours civils contre le crime organisé et modifiant la

Loi sur la réglementation des lcools a Your committee agreed to report this bill without mendment. a Bill 3 – The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée égislative l Your committee agreed to report this bill without amendment. Bill 4 – The Fire Departments Arbitration Amendment Act/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'arbitrage relatif aux services de pompiers Your committee agreed to report this bill without amendment. Mr. Martindale: Mr. Speaker, I move, sec- onded by the honourable Member for Assiniboia (Mr. Rondeau), that the report of the committee e received. b Motion agreed to.

372 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 6–The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act (Claimant Advisers) Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh), that leave be given to introduce Bill 6, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corpora- tion Amendment Act (Claimant Advisers); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Société d'assurance publique du Manitoba (conseillers des demandeurs), and that the same now be received and read a first time. Mr. Speaker: Are you continuing on with the motion, the honourable Minister of Finance? Mr. Selinger: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House. I would like to table the Lieu- tenant-Governor's message. Motion presented. Mr. Selinger: Mr.

Speaker, this will, for the first time in Manitoba, provide advocacy resources to people who feel they would like to appeal a bodily harm claim decision by Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation. They will have resources now to be able to make a fully prepared appeal and support to do that. We believe this will create a greater sense of not only procedural justice but substantive justice in terms of outcomes for appellants. Thank you. M otion agreed to. * (13:35) Bill 7–The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act (Protection of Crown Assets) Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that leave be given to introduce Bill 7, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act (Protection of Crown Assets), and that the same be now received and read a first time. His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House. I would like to table the Lieu- tenant-Governor's message. Motion presented. Mr. Mackintosh: Mr.

Speaker, this bill will prevent privatization of Manitoba Public Insur- ance Corporation without the approval of the people of Manitoba by referendum. Motion agreed to. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us from Maple Leaf School 67 Grade 5 students under the direction of Mr. Frank Reeves. This school is located in the constit- uency of the honourable Member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson).

Also in the public gallery we have from Robertson School 19 Grade 5 students under the direction of Ms. Karla Yallits and Mrs. Mary Wong. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Memb ers for Burrows (Mr. Martindale). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Kyoto Protocol Implementation Costs Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Premier (Mr. Doer) told reporters that the ratification of Kyoto would lead to the creation of more jobs in Manitoba.

In fact, the Premier was so bold to say, and I quote: I am guar- anteeing that if we ratify Kyoto we will gain jobs. Yes, I will give you my personal guarantee. This from a government that says costs are irrelevant.

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 373 I also believe that we have asked and they have refused to table any documents that provide any clear-cut, meaningful sector-by-sector analy- sis of costs and benefits of Kyoto to Manitoba. Will the minister responsible now table his Government's so-called viable plan containing appropriate, timely signals that will show Mani- tobans the costs and benefits of ratifying Kyoto to sectors such as agriculture, manufacturing and transportation? Mr. Speaker, will the minister reduce his political greenhouse gas and come clean with Manitobans? [interjection] Hon.

Tim Sale (Minister of Energy, Science and Technology): Well, Mr. Speaker, at least I do not jump to the pump for Alberta. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I would like to once again draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery. We have a lot of students here today and I am sure each and every one of you would like to set a good example. I ask the co- operation of all honourable members, please. Mr. Sale: Mr. Speaker, one can really wish that the Leader of the Opposition and his staff would do some homework.

Agriculture is exempted in the federal plan which was tabled three weeks ago. They have had three weeks to read that, so there are no demands for agriculture to reduce its emissions. In fact, if he would read the plan he would find that agriculture is seen as a source, a net source of sinks, agricultural sinks. By appropriate management, it not only is not required to reduce, it will be able to contribute and thereby earn resources from the sale of appropriate credits. * (13:40) Mr.

Speaker, I have already indicated to the members opposite that the total cost to the large emitter sector which is the only sector that is included, manufacturing is not included, the total in cost in Manitoba is a maximum of 255 000 tonnes. We will capture 400 000 tonnes from the Brady Landfill, far more than offsetting any- thing, assuming industry does nothing. I will continue in my second answer. Taxation Provincial Comparisons Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): On a new question, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Mr.

Murray: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A new study released today comparing 50 United States and the 10 Canadian provinces reveals that in terms of taxes and government regulations, only P.E.I. ranks worse th an Manitoba. Yet the Premier's (Mr. Doer) response to that is to say to taxpayers: Do not hold your breath in terms of any tax relief. How does the minister rationalize the fact that middle-income Manitobans who used to pay almost $300 less income tax than Saskatchewan now pay almost $800 more, a difference of $1,100 under his watch? How does he rationalize that? Hon.

Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): As you know, under our Government we have reduced personal income taxes by 11.5 percent. A family of four earning $60,000 with a single earner have seen their taxes cut 14 percent since the 2000 year Budget. In the year 2000, they paid $6,394 which was the legacy left to us by the former government, which was the highest in Canada. In the year 2002, they will pay $5,601 which is the sixth-lowest in the country. Mr. Murray: Mr.

Speaker, according to the economic freedom of North America study that was released, I would ask this minister: How can the minister justify the fact that under his watch in three years the Govern ment debt that every Manitoban owes has increased by $800? How can you justify that? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, if the member opposite would take the time to study the Budget booklet, he will see that the per capita costs that we are paying for the debt, the amount we actually pay in the Budget every year of $380 million has dramatically reduced from the time when they were in office.

We have repatriated our American-based debt from 19 percent when we came into office down to 4.5 percent this

374 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 year, and we have improved our net costs for paying the debt in this province over three years far in excess of what the former members op- posite did. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, that is a lump of coal for the Manitobans who know that when they are compared with 50 United States and 10 provinces, other than P.E.I. we are dead last under this minister. The tax gap and government debt is growing, and Manitobans know that under this Government it is only going to get worse.

I ask, on behalf of all Manitobans, rather than being a scrooge, when is this Government going to wake up and make Manitoba more competitive? When is he going to do that? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, we have seen energy rates escalate dramatically in Alberta and Ontario where Tory governments have dereg- ulated the plan and put an enormous burden on the backs of consumers. We have seen premiums added to health care in Alberta and British Columbia where right-wing governments have reduced taxes while reducing all the user charges and premium charges on everybody else in the country.

Our cost of living in this province is either the first-lowest or second-lowest across the country. The bottom line for Manitobans is better than any other province where Tories are in government. * (13:45) Out-Migration Post-Secondary Graduates Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, our leader has a plan to provide incentives for students to stay in Manitoba after they graduate from our post-secondary institu- tions. My question is for the Minister of Advanced Education. Where is her Doer govern- ment's plan to keep our young people in Manitoba? Hon.

Diane McGifford (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, I will of course confine my remarks to the work we have done in post-secondary education. As the member knows, part of our plan to encourage enrolments in post-secondary education and to keep our people here, keep our students here, first of all, in the year of spring 2000, we introduced the Manitoba government bursary which had been cancelled in '93-94 by the members opposite, much to their shame. We have also maintained tuition rates at our universities and colleges at 90 percent of what they were when we came into office.

Enrolments at our universities and colleges are a testament to the soundness of our policies. I can give the member exact figures, but they are around 25% increases in our universities since we came into office. So I think our policies are extremely clear and that they are working. Mrs. Stefanson: I ask this minister: What is the Government's plan to ensure that the taxpayers of our province do not continue to subsidize the education of Ontario, B.C. and Alberta's workforce? Hon.

MaryAnn Mihychuk (Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines): The question offers us an opportunity to look at the statistics of youth migration and I think it is important to remember that, during the years from 1996 to '99, under the previous government, we lost 1845 young Manitobans. Now we have reduced that outflow to 1091 over three years. That is 615 young people per year left under the Tory watch. We have reduced it to 250, and we continue to make improvements. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, will this minister admit, given that she said in an

article in The Winnipeg Sun, July 11, and I quote: The fact the numbers have worsened since the NDP took office is just a coincidence. I ask this minister: Will she admit there is no plan to stem the exodus of our young people from our province? Ms. Mihychuk: I think the statistics prove it for themselves that we have a plan and it is working. They lost 615 every si ngle year you were in office. We stemmed it to 250 per year and we are working on it every single day and we are reducing the outflow. I can tell you the best retention strategy for young people is opportunity. I can tell you when we contacted the Asper School of Business the

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 375 retention rate for graduates this year exceeded 90 percent. Mr. Speaker, 90 percent of young people found work at home. At Red River community college their success rate of keeping young people at home is between 96 to 94 percent. That is how we keep young people in Manitoba. * (13:50) Winnipeg Child and Family Services Staffing Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Family Services did not tell the truth last week about counselling for kids in care being cut and he did not tell the truth yesterday about reductions in front-line services, as demonstrated by a memo which I tabled which indicated that Child and Family Services in Winnipeg is decreasing the number of front- line social work staff. I would like to ask this Minister of Family Services if he can guarantee today that creating vacancies in front-line social work positions will not compromise in any way the safety of children who come into care. Can he make that guarantee today? Mr.

Speaker: Order. Before recognizing the honourable minister, I would just like to remind the honourable Member for Charleswood that all members are honourable members and whatever information they bring to the House is factual information that I take as factual information. So I would just like to remind the honourable member, choose your words carefully. Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Family Services and Housing): I do appreciate those remarks.

There is a record of this entire session, in fact the last three years of the critic who is very critical on many, many issues to do with health care and family services, a record of being erroneous with the facts. There are no removals of front-line staff. Mrs. Driedger: Well, this minister should be ashamed of himself. I would like to right now table a Winnipeg Child and Family Services memo that outlines the difficulties that Winnipeg Child and Family Services is having with staff reductions, one of which I would note is the elimination of a supervisor of the crisis response unit.

I would like to ask this Minister of Family Services to explain why positions like this one and in other priorities such as services to chil- dren and families and community-based early intervention are being cut to the tune of almost half a million dollars while corporate savings amount to a mere $66,000. Mr. Caldwell: I appreciate the question from the critic who, as I noted earlier, is quite critical on a regular basis. The fact is we are engaged in an exercise to put resources to where they mean the most and that is at the front lines. We will continue to do that. Mr. Speaker: Order. Point of Order Mr.

Speaker: The honourable Official Op- position House Leader, on a point of order. Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Official Opposition House Leader): You know, Mr. Speaker, telling the truth and erroneous statements, I do believe they both fall very quietly and closely together. This Minister of Family Services knows quite well what he is responding to. You have challenged our side to be careful on the words we use, Mr. Speaker. I would ask you to see that this minister respects some of your rulings. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order. Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I am looking at Beauchesne, in terms of the words used by the critic. The statement "untrue statement" certainly has been ruled unparliamentary several times. The word "erroneous" is one that does not im- pute that there was a deceit or an intentional withholding of the facts. So I think there are some certain concerns about the language of the member opposite. It

376 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 was correct that you remind members there are phrases in this House that if not unparliamentary are certainly borderlin e and can inflame the uestion Period. Q * (13:55) Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, I would like to take this opportunity to remind the honourable minister at this point that there are some words that might not be un- parliamentary but the way they are stated could be offensive to some members.

So I would like to also caution the honourable minister in hoosing his words carefully. c * * * Mr. Speaker: Honourable minister, have you concluded your answer? Mrs. Driedger: The minister did not answer the question. I would like to ask this Minister of Family Services, who is responsible for the care and custody of children under The Child and Family Services Act how can he wash his hands of responsibility for the kids of this province. He has already lost one Child and Family Services board member. Does he want to have another one resign because of his behaviour? Mr. Caldwell: Mr.

Speaker, I just got the paper the member tabled. There seems to be an odd disconnect between her line of questioning and what actually appears in it. I quote: As you well know, we are working hard to keep our expenditures within the level. To date we have made progress in this area. Last year Winnipeg Child and Family Services had a deficit of over $10 million. That is being addressed. I continue to quote: "We also have very few children in hotels in spite of an overall increase in children in paid care.

Our use of kinship homes has increased significantly which is an indicator of good service." The people are doing good work out there. Winnipeg Child and Family Services Staffing Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): It is clear that those who work within the Child and Family Services system put their heart and their soul in and are committed and dedicated to the work they do, but it seems like this minister has no care or compassion for the children who are directly under his service.

My question for the flippant Minister of Family Services is: How can he stand in this House and deny three memos that have been prepared by staff in his department directly responsible to him that indicate services are being compromised and children are suffering as a result of his actions? Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Well, I will not be spending $10,000 on Beaujolais as long as I am minister here. I will read again from the memo that was tabled by the Member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger): Our use of children in hotels, in spite of an overall increase, has been reduced.

"Our use of kinship homes has increased significantly which is an indicator of good service." The child welfare professionals in this province are doing extraordinarily good service to the people of the province of Manitoba. We on this side of the House support their good work and will continue to put resources into front-line services. Mrs. Mitchelson: How, again, can this minister stand in this House and put comments on the record like he just has, Mr.

Speaker, when his own staff in his department say that the turnover in staff in services to children and families and the lower numbers of experienced staff in the program are creating significant strain, which undoubtedly, despite the absolute best efforts of everyone, diminishes our capacity to provide a quality service? How can he stand in his place and say there are not cuts as service is being compromised to children and families that require his care? Mr. Caldwell: Mr.

Speaker, it is important to note the conditions and ch allenges being faced by social workers in this time of transition in our province to the communities they serve and together who struggle daily to improve lives in our province. We are certainly on this side of the

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 377 House, as a government, committed to providing resources to front-line services, not ancillary services, front-line services, and will continue to do so. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, a very simple question to the Minister of Family Services: Is he indicating that staff who wrote these memos in his department are lying? Mr. Caldwell: No, Mr. Speaker. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. I have recognized the honourable Member for River Heights on a uestion. q * (14:00) Urban Aboriginal Strategy Update Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, there has been much recent focus on the importance of considering the Aboriginal community in Manitoba as, for example, the recent forum put on by the Business Council of Winnipeg emphasized the importance of in- cluding Aboriginal people in plans for economic evelopment in Manitoba. d My question is to the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs. I as k the minister: What is the Government's Urban Aboriginal Strategy? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Min ister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for the question.

I would like to advise him, of course, that we are continuing to work with the Aboriginal community. We have been working with the Canada West Foundation and also with the federal government on the Urban Aboriginal Strategy. As far as I am able to tell, so far things have been moving along and we are looking forward to coming up with better results than had been there before. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Member for River Heights has the floor. Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary to the minister.

I would ask the minister why it was that urban Aboriginal leaders attending the Canada West Foundation Building the Dialogue conference last week indicated that the Urban Aboriginal Strategy, which had been in place in early 1999, fell apart when this Government was elected. What happened? Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, the member's statements, I am afraid, are not based on facts. In fact, the working relationship between Canada West Foundation and the federal government is improving. The strategy, the work that has been started is still moving along.

I would also like to advise the member that in Manitoba here we have reinstated the funding that was taken away from the friendship centres. We have instituted programs like Neigh- bourhoods Alive! We have also signed a memorandum of understanding with the Win- nipeg Regional Health Authority with respect to Aboriginal employment. So I think that shows we are committed and, in fact, we are doing things for the Aboriginal community. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, I ask the minister: Why did a table at the Building the Dialogue symposium last week, a table including four members of Manitoba's civil service from different departments, why did that table report there was no Aboriginal strategy, that one is badly needed? Where is the minister's Aborig- inal strategy? If the minister has one, will he please table it in the Legislature today? Mr. Lathlin: In fact, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to table some correspondence that has been going back and forth between the Minister of Public Works and Government Services on the federal side, who was also charged with the implementation of the Government of Canada's Urban Aboriginal Strategy, a letter that he wrote to me on November 18 telling us he is still very much interested in work ing in a co-operative way with our provincial government as we develop strategies that will address the issues that negatively impact Aboriginal people in Winnipeg. Palliative Care Government Initiatives Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr.

Speaker, in my role as a clergyperson, I have had the

378 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 privilege of helping people and ministering to people who are dying. I know that people would prefer to be going through this process in familiar surroundings at home surrounded by loved ones. Since Roy Romanow in his report on the future of health care recommended that provinces increase their support to palliative care programs, can the Minister of Health tell us what our Government is doing to implement this excellent recommendation? Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): In fact, an all-party Senate report several years ago recommended that all provinces put in place a comprehensive palliative care program. I am very happy to report that Manitoba, by the im- plementation of its access to drug program to allow palliative patients to have access to drugs at home which they formerly had access to without cost at hospitals, to now have access to these drugs at home will have a significant impact and improvement on the quality of life and the quality of lives of those going through a palliative state.

In addition, it serves as a model for all Canadians with respect to, firstly, the Senate report that recommended all provinces put in place such a program. Secondly, it was one of the recommendations of the Romanow report, something members opposite have totally neglected and overlooked. It was a specific recommendation saying that home care pro- grams should be expanded to include palliative care. We are very happy to have the most comprehensive one in the country. Little Grand Rapids Airport Update Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Mr.

Speaker, yesterday, in a media report, the Minister of Transportation was asked a question in regard to the status of a new airport for Little Grand Rapids. The minister stated, and I quote: Certainly, once the federal government comes to the table we will be there. We are there now. Mr. Speaker, in the same report, Transport Canada has not heard any word from the Doer government. Has the Minister of Transport now contacted the federal government in this regard? Hon. Scott Smith (Minister of Transportation and Government Services): I am glad to see this question raised by members opposite.

When the working group had done a report and advice was given back to the former government by 1998, there was very little action taken on northern airports. I can tell you from the capital investment that we have made, there is a recom- mendation of $50 million going to some of the servicing for northern airports. Members op- posite sat on that report for over a year before taking action. This Government has increased our capital expenditures for all northern airports by over 150 percent and we continue to work with communities in the North to make it viable. Mr. Faurschou: Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Transport indicated that he had studied a study from 1998. However, last year the Doer government commissioned a $97,000 feasibility study. What has this minister done with that study? Mr. Smith: Mr. Speaker, I can tell you the improvements that we have made specifically, and certainly with the initiation of that study, and basically the identification that a new airport is needed up there, but in the interim, I can tell you specifically at Little Grand Rapids there has been a lot of work done in that community.

There have been dollars invested in precision approach path indicator lights; there have been navigational lights put in at that airport; there have been large amounts of capital investment put into the airport to make improvements that this government did not do. Mr. Faurschou: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Culture (Mr. Robinson) stated that unless the runway is lengthened, the situation is in crisis. Mr. Speaker: Order. Point of Order Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on a point of order. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): On a point of order. I am reluctant to intervene, Mr.

Speaker, but we are continuing to get

preambles and supplementary questions. Would you please remind the honourable member, members opposite, of 409(2): A sup- plementary question needs no

preamble?

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 379 * (14:10) Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Government House Leader, Beauchesne Citation 409(2) advises that a supplementary question should not require a

preamble. The honourable member does have a point of order, so I would ask the honourable member to please put his question. * * * Mr. Faurschou: My apologies, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister of Culture (Mr. Robinson) answer the question in regard to the runway of Little Grand Rapids? Does he believe the situa- tion is still in crisis? Mr. Smith: Mr. Speaker, I think if the member opposite did his homework he would identify that when the study was done, $25 million to relocate the airport was the option.

I will tell you, in the interim, the airport currently has functional runway lights, rotating beacons and a non-directional beacon that has been installed by this Government. I can tell you this Government has taken action where the previous government did not take action. When you increase your capital expenditures and budget and you care about the northern communities by putting 150% increase in capital investment in the northern airports and in Little Grand Rapids, it shows the people of the community who cares and who did not. Gull Rapids Hydro Project Employment and Training Programs Mr.

Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the minister responsible for training. The training component in business opportunities of the proposed Gull Lake project or Gull Rapids project, I am sorry, is clearly defined in the AIP or the agreement in principle. The agreement calls for a Cree entity to be established to manage the community employ- ment and training programs for First Nations people related to the project. I would like to ask the minister whether she can tell the House as to the current status of the entity and whether or not it has already begun its work. Hon.

Diane McGifford (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, my information is that negotiations are not yet complete and that negotiations are ongoing at this point. Mr. Derkach: Well, Mr. Speaker, I guess my question directly to the minister is: Has the entity been created? The agreement in principle was signed over a year ago, and there should be no hesitation in having that Cree entity estab- lished to not only do the employment and training opportunities for people related to the Gull Rapids project but also to the Wuskwatim project.

I am asking the minister whether or not any of the two Cree entities have been estab- lished to manage the training needs of people in the North for the proposed development projects. Ms. McGifford: Mr. Speaker, I understand there are two projects. First, Wuskwatim which in- volves NCN; secondly, Gull which involves four Cree nations: Split Lake, York Landing, Fox Lake and one more. As I have just told the member, negotiations are ongoing. We have some work to do with the federal government and negotiations are ongoing with regard to finalizing those agreements. Mr. Derkach: Mr.

Speaker, I guess I need to ask the minister whether she and her Govern- ment are committed to ensuring that there is a Cree entity that will be independent of govern- ment, that will in fact provide for the training and employment opportunities for Aboriginal people in the North as they relate to the two projects. Ms. McGifford: Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member opposite that this Government, my department and other departments are absolutely committed to pre-project training in the North. We believe our future as a province depends on training and educating Aboriginal people.

We are absolutely committed to a person, on this side of the House, to this training in the North, so I want to give the member that assurance.

380 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Russell, on a new question. Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, on a new question. The minister did not answer the question. I want to simply ask her whether she and her Gov- ernment are committed to a stand-alone Cree entity that will in fact deliver the training and opportunities for people in northern Manitoba. Ms. McGifford: Mr. Speaker, as I said a few minutes ago, negotiations are ongoing. We are committed to partnerships with the Cree Nations in northern Manitoba. First Nations Casinos Minister's Comments Mr.

Harold Gilleshammer (Minnedosa): Following the defeat of the casino vote in Brandon, the Member for Brandon West, the Lotteries Minister, indicated a review of the provincial policy is not in the cards nor will his Government reopen a bidding process to con- sider new proposals for Aboriginal casinos. Does he stand by those comments? Hon. Scott Smith (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): The member opposite mentions a review of the casinos and the attempt of the casinos through the Bostrom report, which he is mentioning for the Aboriginal casinos.

I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, once you come to a conclusion on a project and times and dates are set, obviously the outcome to that is re- viewed after. The process is not revisited. When times and dates are set, sooner or later you come to a conclusion on dates that have been set. You get together with folks that have been involved and you consider their input and consideration. You do not come out and advise of what you might do in your next step, which this member is sort of anticipating that we were going to do. Mr. Gilleshammer: I would like to thank the minister for clarifying that. On a new question, Mr.

Speaker. The First Minister (Mr. Doer) i ndicated following this vote, and in reference to this vote he says: I think there were errors made by the Government. Can the minister indicate what those errors were? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister charged with the administration of The Gaming Control Act): Mr. Speaker, I am sure that all members recall that the management of the Aboriginal casino process was under the primary direction of the Manitoba Gaming Control Commission.

I have had the opportunity in the last several weeks to meet on two separate occasions and privately on a third occasion with the Grand Chief and some of the chiefs and offici als of various reserves. We have met with members of the Aseneskak casino. We have met with chiefs who were concerned about Aboriginal gaming and about the reviews that are ongoing. We assured them that, as we draft new appropriate legislation and regulations, they will be involved from the outset.

I am looking forward to a very effective relationship as we move forward to meet the tests that are in the comprehensive framework agreement, which I am sure the members of the Opposition have had a chance to peruse carefully. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Minnedosa, on a new question. Mr. Gilleshammer: The Premier had clearly said that errors were made by government and if the member does not want to acknowledge that, that is fine. I think the public is well aware of that.

He also said what was particularly frus- trating is various municipalities approached about hosting casinos turned out to be obstacles. Is it the view of the Government that the municipalities are the villains here and that they are truly the obstacles to the success of this Gov- ernment? Mr. Sale: I think it is always important in any democratic situation to honour the views that are expressed for and against a variety of issues. These are very difficult issues often for various groups. They have made their views strongly heard.

I think that we always have to respect the views of the individuals who make their concerns heard. That being said, Mr. Speaker, I

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 381 think there are always things to be learned from processes. I think that is something that we all ac- knowledge, that no matter how much we think we know about something at the beginning, there are always things we can learn through the process. I know the First Minister and our other ministers involved in gaming and lotteries will be meeting with First Nations leadership in the very near future to review the process and to look forward to the future in a positive and ollaborative way. c * (14:20) Diking Projects Rebate Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St.

Norbert): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Transportation and Government Services. The people of Grande Pointe were happy to hear they were getting a 10% rebate back for their diking purposes after the 1997 flood, but the city of Winnipeg would like to know if they are going to be treated in the same equal fashion as the people of Grande Pointe and have the same 10 percent refunded? The people on Lord Avenue in St. Norbert having had to put out of pocket $130,000, they would like to have that same amount re- imbursed. Hon.

Scott Smith (Minister of Transportation and Government Services): I can assure the member opposite that each and every com- munity will be treated exactly the same with fairness and equity. I can tell the member op- posite, certainly differe nt circumstances the member is talking about opposite, but every community is treated in the same way with the same 10 percent, in fairness. Mr. Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Load Line Manufacturing Mr.

Peter Dyck (Pembina): On November 29, I had the pleasure of attending the grand opening of Load Line Manufacturing's newest 25 000- square-foot facility located on Highway 32 south of Winkler. Nearly 1000 people braved less than ideal weather conditions to share in this impor- tant celebration. Load Line Manufacturing has been thriving since Jake Friesen and his partner purchased the company in 1988. The company has grown from 10 employees working in a small shop to 60 employees with a customer base that covers both western Canada and the midwestern United States.

The company has also sold some units overseas in countries such as Russia and Belize. Since they started selling trucks in 1990, space has been an issue for Load Line Manufac- turing. More production space was required in order for this business to continue serving the needs of its customers. That is why the company has expanded and built a new facility for its truck division. The old building is still being used for manufacturing. This is not the end of the growth for Load Line Manufacturing. The owner and president, Jake Friesen, sees one further expansion to come, possibly next sum- mer.

The expansion of Load Line's operation is indicative of a can-do spirit that exists among the entrepreneurs in the Pembina constituency. They see opportunities and they seize upon them. Our communities benefit tremendously as a result as they create jobs and opportunities for area residents. I would like to congratulate Load Line Manufacturing on their achievements and wish them much luck in their future business en- deavours. Osmond Theodore Anderson Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): Good day, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to highlight the life and accomplishments of a constituent and friend, Mr. O.T.

Anderson who passed away this weekend. I first met O.T. while taking a science class at Daniel Mac in Grade 10. O.T. was an excellent teacher who always gave his students 100 percent and because of his caring attitude and personality always got the best out of his students. I then had the pleasure of being a

382 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 student teacher at Daniel a number of years later where O.T. was then the vice-principal. I again appreciated his guidance and support and wit- nessed his commitment to the school and staff. O.T. was also very active in the community. He was appointed as chairperson of the Mayor's Race Relations Committee by Bill Norrie in 1984. He also served on the Community Folk Arts Council as secretar y, a columnist for the ethnic paper Our Voice and a chairman of the Winnipeg School Division No. 1 multicultural education committee.

He also held the position of chairperson of the Manitoba Multicultural Resources Centre and was president of the Caribbean Canadian Association two times. I would like to thank his family for sharing O.T.'s time and talents with our community and province. He has left the province a much better, more tolerant place for his efforts. His legacy will continue through his thousands of students, all those people he touched in his community and work. Ralph Waldo Emerson once said the most important legacy we can leave is a human one, not a financial one.

O.T. did a great job as far as our community and I am sure all members of this Chamber will join me in extending our condolences to his wife, family and his many friends. Thank you very much and our best memories. Manitoba League of Persons with Disabilities Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, today I had the privilege of attending an event put on by Manitoba League of Persons with Disabilities. It was an invitation to the time capsule opening 10 years after.

At the close of the United Nations Decade of Disabled Persons in 1992, time capsule predic- tions for the future were sealed and hung behind framed plaques in the Manitoba Legislature to be opened on International Human Rights Day, December 10, 2002, and today that day arrived. It certainly was a pleasure to be in attendance with members of the disability com- munity today. Many media were also in at- tendance, as well as others that were interested in finding out what these predictions had been that had been sealed behind these framed plaques over the last 10 years.

Certainly it was an opportunity to also spend some time with the Manitoba League for Persons with Disabilities. I would like to indicate that they certainly have gone to a lot of work in addressing this issue of the time capsule and accumulating all of those predictions. The Manitoba League for Persons with Disabilities is a membership-based organization representing the concerns of people with all types of disabilities in Manitoba. They were established in 1974 and have since developed expertise on numerous issues affecting the lives of people with disabilities.

A few such issues are accessibility, education, employment, housing, income security, support services and trans- portation. Their philosophy, Mr. Speaker, says that Manitobans with disabilities have the same rights and responsibilities as any other person and that all persons, regardless of abilities, must have access to opportunities in order to exercise these rights. It was certainly a pleasure today to join with them, Mr. Speaker, and to share with them the time-capsule list which has been behind the plaque for the last 10 years.

I would certainly like to congratulate them for all of their work and wish them well in their future endeavours in addressing their future challenges. International Human Rights Day Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, today is International Human Rights Day, a day of particular significance to people with disa- bilities in Manitoba. Ten years ago Manitobans with disabilities placed in a time capsule here at the Legislature their dreams, expectations and predictions as to where society would be in the year 2002, in terms of equality of opportunity for people with disabilities in Manitoba.

At an event held here this morning, these predictions were unveiled and revealed to the public for review. On behalf of our NDP government, it gives me great pleasure to report that while there is

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 383 still more work to be done we have made good progress in the last three years since we formed government to meet some of these expectations. Our Government, for the first time in the history of Manitoba, has designated a minister re- sponsible for people with disabilities. This was followed by the release of our Government's strategy paper on disability. Today we announced the establishment of the Disabilities Issues Office. The first executive director is Mr. Jim Derksen.

Today he received the Human Rights commitment award from the Manitoba Human Rights Commission, the Cana- dian Human Rights Commission, and the Cana- dian Legal Education Association. We all want to congratulate him. The new Disabilities Issues Office will work with all departments of gov- ernment to ensure that disability issues are addressed. In April 2002, our Government announced the adoption of universal design guidelines to promote accessibility. We have developed a process through an annual round table where people with disabilities have access to govern- ment policy making.

In addition, our Govern- ment has shown leadership in the area of employment and created five mentoring staff- years through the Civil Service Commission to train and recruit people with disabilities on the job. Our Government has created a joint com- munity and government committee to ensure that people with disabilities are included in programs under the affordable housing agreement.

Since we formed Government, more parks and campgrounds have been upgraded for accessibility, interpreter costs for medical appointments have been provided for, there are more accessible buses in Winnipeg than there were 10 years ago, our Government has in- creased funding for children's special services and support to families and more people with disabilities are living in the community today than in institutional settings. These are just some of the actions taken by our Government to offer full citizenship and equal opportunity to people with disabilities in our province. Earl Backman Mr.

Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to recognize a very important individual who has committed himself for six years to ensuring the health and well-being of western Manitobans. I am standing here to honour the former chief executive officer of the Brandon Regional Health Authority, Mr. Earl Backman, who retired on November 29, 2002. Following the creation of the regional health authority system by the former Progressive Conservative government in the mid-'90s, Mr. Backman was selected as the first-ever CEO of the Brandon RHA. Mr.

Backman accepted this appointment after having served for 15 years as Brandon's city manager. Immediately following his appointment, Mr. Backman successfully carried out the task of creating the structure and organization that would eventually become the Brandon Regional Health Authority. Mr. Backman's effective leadership and direction resulted in many notable achievements for the Brandon RHA.

During the six-year term he served as CEO, the Brandon RHA became well known for its advancements in information technology, its openness with the media and general public and its initiation of Brandon's downtown rejuvena- tion. In addition, Mr.

Backman oversaw the integration of the Brandon General Hospital into the RHA and, under his guidance, strong relationships with Brandon's neighbouing com- munities and many rural municipalities were developed to help acknowledge and develop Brandon as a regional health centre for Westman and some of eastern Saskatchewan. * (14:30) As I acknowledge the past achievements of Earl Backman, it is also fitting that I recognize the Brandon RHA's new CEO, Carmel Olson. Ms. Olson, formerly the RHA's vice-president of community services and long-term care, has a lengthy history of involvement in the health care system.

I wish her much success in her new position and trust that she will uphold the high standards set under Mr. Backman's leadership.

384 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 To Mr. Backman, I would like to thank you for your dedicated service, to congratulate you for your many successes and to wish you and your wife, Candace, some well-deserved time off as you embark on your planned retirement. House Business Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, would you please can- vass the House to see if there is leave to set aside the Throne Speech debate very briefly to allow for first reading of a bill not yet listed on the Order Paper, Bill 10. Mr.

Speaker: Is there leave to set aside the Throne Speech debate temporarily to allow for the first reading of a bill that is not listed on the Order Paper, Bill 10? Is there leave? [Agreed] INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 10–The Elections Finances Amendment Act Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I move by leave, seconded by the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen), that leave be given to introduce Bill 10, The Elections Finances Amendment Act, and that the same be now re- ceived and read a first time.

His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, hav- ing been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House. I will table the Lieutenant-Governor's message. Motion presented. Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, the bill is based on recommendations from Manitoba's Chief Electoral Officer and has been agreed to by the parties represented in the Legislature. They deal with authorizing the payment on a more realistic level, payments to auditors under The Elections Finances Act, and also deals with nominal dona- tion of goods and services to campaigns. Motion agreed to.

ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS ADJOURNED DEBATE (Eighth Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: Resumed debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), and this debate remains open. Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise to add my comments on the Speech from the Throne fo r the Fourth Session of the Thirty-seventh Legislature. As a member of the Government, I am quite proud of this Throne Speech and the accomplishments that our Government has made over the course of our three-plus years in office.

First, I would like to start by congratulating you and welcoming you back, Sir, to the Legis- lative Chamber and we look forward to your guidance as this session proceeds. In the past, you have, as many members have referenced, been very fair to the members of this Chamber in your rulings and we respect you for the guidance you have provided to the members of this Chamber. In addition, I would also like to welcome back the members of the Chamber staff who have served us so diligently over the years.

Of course, we have had many opportunities to chat with them about their involvement, not only in this Chamber, but in their personal lives as well. We welcome their efforts on behalf of the members of the Assembly. Mr. Speaker, I would like to also welcome and congratulate the pages who have been appointed to help and assist members of the Assembly with respect to the duties that we perform here. The pages form a very vital function to the operation of the Chamber. We hope that they will be able to gain some new insight into the democratic process that we have here in our great province of Manitoba.

We hope they will take away many fond memories as a result of that experience and that they will be able to share those experiences with other members of their schools and families and, of course, of their community at large.

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 385 I would also welcome, Mr. Speaker, and recognize the support serv ices that we receive from the intern staff, those who have been appointed to the Official Opposition caucus and, of course, to the government caucus. I do know that the interns who have worked with us over the years have been very dedicated individuals and have provided us with immeasurable a- mounts of effort and work on behalf of the members of the Assembly on the government side of the House.

I would like to tha nk them for their work over the years because they have done a tremendous amount of tasks, and, of course, what they receive in return is an experience, I am sure, that is second to none, to be able to work inside the democratic process. I hope they, too, will be able to share their experiences with others and will learn from this process, and, hopefully, for both the pages and the interns, perhaps we will see them returning to the legislative Chamber as elected members some time in the future.

I would encourage them, if that is their will, to seek public office because I think it is a very honourable job to be involved with. I would welcome their involvement further in the democratic process. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to start by thanking the constituents of the community of Transcona for their continuing support. Since 1990, I have had the honour of being the MLA for Transcona.

It has be en indeed an honour to be the MLA for Transcona and to meet the thousands of people in Transcona, to hear their concerns first-hand and to be able to bring those concerns back to the legislative Chamber and to the caucus and Cabinet to share with my colleagues of this place, so that they, too, might be aware of the concerns of my community. Every single day that I talk to Transcona residents, I learn more from them. For me, Mr. Speaker, this is an irre placeable and perhaps an educational experience that could never have been gained in any other form.

So I thank the residents of the community of Transcona for their continuing support in the past and, hopefully, in the future as well. Now, Mr. Speaker, many members of the Chamber have made comment with respect to members of the Assembly who have announced their retirement from this Chamber. I know many of them are long-serving members, and we want to recognize the role that they have played in this place. Mr. Speaker, I kn ow the Member for Lakeside (Mr.

Enns) who is the longest serving member of the Legislative Assembly, in fact, we on both sides of the House have often referred to the Member for Lakeside as the dean of the Legislature for his many, many years, in fact, decades of service to the people of Manitoba and to his constituents in the Lakeside community. So we congratulate him on his long service and for being a loyal servant of the people of Man- itoba and for his role as minister of various portfolios in this province, and we wish him well in his future endeavours when he leaves this Assembly.

We know that we will likely see him back, sitting in the loges of this Chamber, providing some guidance to members of the Assembly from time to time, as the Member for Lakeside has brought his scrapbook to the Chamber and has come across and shared with us some of his memories from the past. We appreciate him sharing some of those recollections and some of the advice that he has to share with members of the government of today and appreciate him also bringing forward some of his experiences from the times and some of the debates that have occurred in the past in this Chamber.

So we welcome his input into that and also congratulate him on his pending retirement. Mr. Speaker, we would also like to recognize that the Member for Morris (Mr. Pitura) will also be taking his leave from this Chamber in the future, when the provincial general election is called, no doubt. I want to say that I have enjoyed discussions with the Member for Morris. He has been a true gentleman, as has the Member for Lakeside and the Member for Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer) in their activities in this House. We do not always agree on policy.

I mean, that is part of the give and take of this political process that we have in the Chamber, but I can say that the members I am referring to are true gentlemen. I have enjoyed my opportunities to

386 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 talk with them over the 13 years that I have been here, or almost 13 years that I have been here, and also to share in some of the experiences that they have. I do know that the Member for Minnedosa, who was the minister fo r the department for which I was the critic, for a number of years we have had our give-and-take through the budg- etary Estimates process. I guess if we are being open and frank here, it was somewhat frustrating. The minister was quite a capable minister in his ability to kind of stall the process or obfuscate.

I am not sure if that is the right term, but there was an ability there where the minister seemed to portray a tremendous sense of patience in his answering and was very slow and methodical in the answers that he was providing. * (14:40) Of course, for a critic who wanted to get at the answer more quickly and also to get on with more questions, it was a bit frustrating for me, but I do appreciate the opportunity to work with the Member for Minnedosa. I do know that he had had some difficulties in the past with respect to personal circumstances with his family mem- bers.

My understanding is that those circum- stances have worked themselves through, and I hope and would wish that the continuing good health of his family will remain and for himself as well. We want to make sure that he is also given best wishes with respect to his impending departure from this Legislative Assembly. Mr. Speaker, with respect to the Minister of Labour and Immigration (Ms.

Barrett), who has been a colleague of mine, as well, in this Chamber since 1990, we were both elected, as we say, to the class of 1990, and it has been my honour to serve both in opposition and in government with the Minister of Labour. I can say I have never once doubted her integrity and her sincerity and her interest in serving not only the people of her constituency, but the people of the province of Manitoba. So I would con- gratulate the Minister of Labour for her efforts on behalf of all Manitobans. In fact, Mr.

Speaker, I was just at an event this past weekend when we were having the evening of Christmas with the Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service.

Members of the Fire Para- medic Service have referenced over and over again, both in the forum of this building here and also in public forums and other venues, that they are quite appreciative of the fact that the Gov- ernment and, in particular, the current Minister of Labour has listened to the concerns of the Winnipeg firefighters and the Winnipeg para- medic services and have taken those concerns to heart and have put in place the necessary legislation to reflect those concerns on behalf of the people of Manitoba. The paramedics and the firefighters, of course, provide services to us.

We have often said in this place that firefighters will, in the performance of their duties, put themselves in harm's way to protect the citizens of Manitoba. We want to recognize, as the Minister of Labour has done through her efforts, the valuable con- tribution that firefighters and paramedics have made to our province. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, I am doubly proud of the Minister of Labour and the efforts that she has made with respect to the operations of her department.

I want to reference, in fact, something that I hold very near and dear to my heart, and that was the legislation dealing with the firefighters. We used to call it the heart and lung legislation, but, of course, it is dealing with catastrophic illnesses that firefighters would encounter in the performance of their duties. The minister has brought forward legislation which is now a part of the laws of this province, and I want to thank the Minister of Labour for her efforts in that regard.

The minister has also brought forward through the operation of her department an increase in the number of Workplace Safety and Health inspectors, something I also hold near and dear to my heart with respect to the safe workplaces, the healthy workplaces of our prov- ince. The minister has taken steps very early in the process of our Government to ensure that those services are in place, Mr. Speaker. While the operation of the department is often difficult, the minister, I think, has handled the challenges of the department admirably and I would like to congratulate her on both her duties

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 387 as the minister and also for her impending re- tirement from this Chamber as well. Now, Mr. Speaker, with respect to the prov- incial Throne Speech that was announced here just last week, a little over a week ago, there were a number of issues that were contained within the Throne Speech that I am very proud of. Of course, members of the Opposition also had their so-called alternate throne speech. There were a number of items that were missing from the Opposition's alternate throne speech.

I want to reference that the Opposition, for some reason, did not make mention with respect to the importance of the floodway to the op- erations of the community of the city of Winni- peg and the communities south of Winnipeg. Now, our Government has made significant improvements with respect to flooding arrange- ments, with respect to diking and other flood relief measures, EMO, and we heard that again today in Question Period with respect to the answer and questions that were presented here relating to flooding. Also, Mr.

Speaker, we did not hear from the Opposition with respect to their involvement with Manitoba Hydro or their lack of involve- ment with Manitoba Hydro. That is one of the things that has mystified me as a member of this Assembly over my years here, why that has not been more front and centre or a centerpiece of the opposition party's platform. I have never understood that. As members of my caucus have often said, there have been over 30 years, 30- plus years, that the members of the Opposition have never been involved in the construction of one watt of electricity in this province.

I have never understood why that is the case. There have been successive NDP governments that have been involved in the construction of hydroelectric projects. I would think it would be, as we have seen demonstrated many times in the history of our province, the benefits of our hydroelectric power are immense.

As we have seen the questioning that is going on in this legislative Chamber with respect to the future of our province as it relates to Kyoto, and I will not go into that right now, but I will in a few moments, I want to say that you would think it would be a centerpiece of any provincial government's policy to have hydro- electric development. As has been pointed out by my ministerial colleagues here, the Conawapa dam that had been planned to service the Ontario market back in the nineties was cancelled.

The contract was cancelled by the Ontario government at that time, I understand that, but, at the same time, I recognize that there was a considerable amount of work and expenditure made with respect to the construction of portions of that project and roads into and cofferdams, et cetera. We could have gone ahead with the environmental licence so that we would have had the opportunity to proceed perhaps more timely with the develop- ment of the Conawapa project, should the Premier (Mr.

Doer), who is now in Ottawa talking with the Prime Minister and is obviously going to have or has had discussions with the Premier of Ontario with respect to Conawapa, have the opportunity to have this project move forward in a timely fashion and also to address the environmental concerns in a way that would be beneficial to those that were concerned about those issues but also to the province as a whole. So, from my perspective, Mr.

Speaker, I cannot understand why members of the Op- position in their alternate throne speech did not mention Hydro as well, did not talk about nurses and the training programs that are going on in this province. That is an oversight on your part. I am not sure why you left that out. It is an important issue. An Honourable Member: It is nice for you to be debating our throne speech. Mr.

Reid: I will get to my Throne Speech here in a couple of minutes, as I have started with, but ou have also neglected to talk about the North. y Now, I do note that today in Question Period, for the first time in my memory, you started to ask questions about the involvement of Aboriginal people. Now, it is nice to see that you are finally asking those questions, but I guess the obvious question is: Why did you not do this years ago? Why did you not have this as a part of your government operations? I can say quite proudly, Mr. Speaker, as has been referenced many times through Manitoba

388 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 Public Insurance, we have a strategy within Manitoba Public Insurance to involve First Nations people in training to become employees to help us with the operations of Manitoba P u b l i c I n s u r a n c e . W e w a n t t o m a k e s u r e t h a t they are actively involved in those opportunities as resident Manitobans. We are taking those steps to make that happen now in addition to other activities that we have with respect to other government departments. We understand the significance.

We are happy to see that you raised it in Question Period this day, but it would have been nice if you had made this part of your long-term strategy when you were in government. In addition to that, there is little or no mention, except in Question Period here where you are trying to go on fishing expeditions, with relationship to the Kyoto Protocol. I do note you did not seem to place that too highly in the alternate throne speech that you had, but I can tell you it is a cornerstone of the future of this province and that we very much see that this is an opportunity for our province. Mr.

Speaker, I will say quite openly and on the record here that I support the steps that need to be taken with respect to climate change. The Kyoto Protocol goes a long way, in my mind, to helping to address those issues. Now, I have never considered myself to be one of those strong environmentalists. I am actively inter- ested and involved in issues relating to recycling and those types of activities. I would like to see us have opportunities to have our automobiles, the vehicles that we drive, driven by fuel cell technology.

A couple of years ago, I had a chance to travel with the former Minister of Transportation and Government Services and visit the Ballard fuel cell plant in Vancouver and to see first-hand some of the activities that they are involved in. They are not the only Canadian company that is involved in fuel cell technology. I do know that there are opportunities for us in Canada with respect to technology improve- ments and changes in the way we move our- selves about our province and our country. I think it is worthy of us to be actively engaged in the development of those projects.

As a society generally, I think that we have a role to play in that process to make sure that that succeeds as well. * (14:50) With respect to the Kyoto Protocol, I do know that the Kyoto Protocol will create op- portunities in this province. I know the questions in Question Period were relating to, well, we are going to be, and, as the members of the Op- position often like to do, they like to paint situations black and in the negative context. Yes, there are going to be some changes in this province. We have already seen some of the companies in our province that have made some changes.

Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting, for example, Tembec, Bison Transport, Midwest Foods have already moved to cut their emissions in this province. I think that is very responsible of industry to take that step. There are others, no doubt, that will be involved as they recognize, and I think the vote is occurring today in the Parliament of Canada with respect to the ratification of Kyoto.

I am not sure if that has passed the Parliament of Canada, but I expect that may occur and that Manitobans and Canadians in general will then be in a position whereby they will be taking the necessary steps to do our part to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair. There will also be opportunities in our province. The Premier and our Minister of Energy, Science and Technology (Mr. Sale) has often said that there is significant opportunity for us in this province with respect to our hydro development.

We have negotiated agreements with our First Nations communities with respect to hydro dam development. We are partnering in this province with First Nations communities on those hydro dam developments. There will be opportunities for construction. I can recall quite clearly in my particular trade as an electrician in years past when we were constructing the Limestone project and encountering others that were in my trade that had worked on the Limestone project, what an employment benefit it was for the province of Manitoba to have those employment

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 389 opportunities, not only for the electricians and the carpenters and those that are steelworkers and those that do the building of the dam itself and the installation of the generators themselves and the controls that are associated, but all of the spin-off industries that go with that. There are thousands upon thousands of jobs that will be created as a result of our hydro-electric dam development.

One of the major projects, obviously, of our Province is to move in that direction in addition to the floodway project, but I think there will be many, many jobs created as a result of our involvement in the Kyoto Protocol and the de- velopment of our hydro dams to provide clean, renewable energy to not only Manitobans, but also to other jurisdictions in Canada and for any reserves that may flow to the United States. There are opportunities for jobs in there. I have witnessed in the past those job opportunities and know of many people that were involved and employed on those hydro dam projects in the past.

I see there is a great future for us in our province as we move in that direction. In addition to that, I am quite proud of the fact that we have currently the lowest un- employment in Canada. We have moved back and forth. I have just got the latest sheet on my desk this week. It was 5.3, if I am not mistaken. I am going from memory here. We float back and forth, first and second place, between ourselves, Manitoba, and the province of Alberta. We are quite proud that our economy has done very well. We hope that that will continue in the future.

I know our Government is working very hard to ensure that we have a continuation of those opportunities for all Manitobans. We are also involved and have been proud of the fact that we have combined the two hydros, Winnipeg Hydro and Manitoba Hydro, together and that we have provided uniform hydro rates for all of Manitobans. All Mani- tobans, no matter where you live now, have the same hydro rate, and I think that is a question of fairness. I am quite proud that we have taken that step. In addition to that, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I am also proud of the fact that as a Crown corporation–and I know the Minister responsible for Hydro has introduced the legislation here just today with respect to the referendum require- ment related to Manitoba Public Insurance. I will not go into discussion about the legislation itself because I think that would be inappropriate. That will be left for another day, but I do note that over the course of our term in government we have been able to have a continuation of the frozen rates at Manitoba Public Insurance.

In fact, it was, I think, two years ago that we were able to return a rebate premium to Manitobans of some 16.6 percent with respect to the premiums that were collected, and Man- itobans I know were– [interjection] Well, there was some controversy with respect to the decisions that were made, and I understand members opposite were opposed to the enhance- ment of our universities and colleges in this province.

That is unfortunate, that you are opposed to the rebuilding of our colleges and universities and opportunities for our young people in this province, as you seem to be with respect to that particular decision. But that is a decision that happened in the past, and I can say I am quite proud of the fact that again this year we had made an application to the Public Utilities Board for a zero revenue change, so we were at flat rates with respect to Manitoba Public Insurance, and PUB in their wisdom saw to roll that back to a minus one percent. So, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I think we have been able to manage that operation very ef- fectively, and Manitoba Public Insurance is a corporation which I am very proud of in the role that they have played in our province providing us with among the lowest, if not the lowest, automobile insurance rates in all of Canada. I do know, I receive information relating to the activities of private insurers and public insurers across our country, and I will share with you some examples.

In Atlantic Canada, as an indication, the private insurers in those jurisdictions, they are raising their automobile insurance rates between 15 percent and 20 percent this year. That is on top of about a 12% increase that they saw last

390 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 year, and into the foreseeable future, they see that there are going to be rising insurance rates at a time when Manitoba Public Insurance pre- mium rates are flat. We are asking for no increase. In fact, we are going down in the pre- miums that we are asking for.

In the Atlantic Canada provinces and in the province of Ontario, we are seeing seniors having their automobile insurance applications rejected out of the sheer fact that they are seniors, because the insurance companies, I would expect from what I am reading, see that the risk is higher for seni ors, and, therefore, they are turning away seniors' insurance application renewals. I think that that is not the direction that I would want my insurance company to go, and I know that MPI insures and takes on all risks that come to its door with respect to the basic insurance program. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, in addition to that, we have taken steps through Manitoba Public Insurance to be involved in the anti-theft program. Although I know the Member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Faurschou) has ref- erenced that there are st ill some concerns with respect to automobile theft in his community and that that is an issue that needs to be addressed, we have taken steps in the corporation to reduce the number of thefts.

We are starting to see a bit of a trend here which I hope will continue, that auto thefts are on the decline in the Capital Region, and we hope that that particular trend will continue because I think we all want to make sure that our vehicles are safe, that our property is safe and that we do not need the inconvenience of having our vehicles stolen. I hope that Manitobans will recognize that we all together have a role to play in preventing those thefts, and I would en- courage Manitobans to be involved and to have the necessary automobile anti-theft features on their vehicle to help in that regard. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I do know that we, through our Throne Speech, which our Throne Speech has pointed out, have played a role in training more nurses in this province, something that we were in serious need of in this province. I recall in my days as a member of the Opposition here where members of the Government, for whatever reasons, decided that they were going to reduce the number of nurses in our province and, in fact, eliminate the LPNs as an effective job in our health care system in this province.

I never understood the logic of that because I valued the services that LPNs– An Honourable Member: It is the unions that did that. The unions did it. Mr. Reid: Well, I can see the Member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson) is now blaming the nurses' union for that. That is an interesting position for her to take, but I know that perhaps when she has her chance to speak to them, she will share her thoughts that it was the nurses and the nurses' unions and the representatives that caused that to happen. So, if she wants to blame the nurses for the decisions of her Government, that is her decision to make.

I do not support that osition. p * (15:00) I saw that all the nurses played a role in our health care system, and we are quite proud as a government to be able to increase the number of nurses in training. In fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is my understanding that we are now grad- uating three times the number of nurses that the previous government did and that over 90 percent of those nurses are staying and working inside our province providing health care serv- ices, vital health care services to the people of Manitoba.

We have increased the number of doctors in training, the number of spaces for doctors that are in training in this province. We are quite proud of that achievement. In fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, with respect to our doctors in training, we had some 2037 doctors that were in our province in 1999 when we took office, and, now, it is my understanding that we have now 2122 licensed doctors in our province. So we are training more doctors, and we are going in the right direction with respect to our health care system, and we are training the necessary people to fill those jobs in our province.

We are quite proud of the role that our Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) and our Government has played in the reversal of the health care fortunes of our province. I think the people of Manitoba recognize that as well.

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 391 Having had the opportunity to canvass parts of my community over the years and again just recently, I am hearing fr om Manitobans that health care is again, and it still is their No. 1 concern. In fact, they want us to go further. In fact, they are talking ab out bringing in Pharma- care as a part of the heal th care program in this province. They want to see an enhancement of those opportunities as well. That is what I am hearing from my community. They want to make sure that we have opportunities right with- in the community.

I do know that I have talked many times with our Minister of Health with respect to the Transcona health access centre. I have told our minister how important that is to our com- munity. Our Government has made a commit- ment to make sure that that project goes forward. In fact, it was just recently announced that we are going to be moving forward. We are in the design phase of that particular project now, following close on the heels of the River East project.

I was at the announcement on that particular day, and from my understanding the Transcona health access centre project will be going to tender this coming spring. We welcome that announcement because that is an issue. Health care services is an important issue for the people of Transcona that I represent. They want to see that project move forward in our community, to bring those preventative health care services to the community to make sure that they are there into the future, something that the Transcona people want to see. Now, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, it was interesting to note that there was some discussion here, in the last session, about the amalgamation of school divisions. I do note that just yesterday there was an announcement that the trustees of the River East Transcona School Division just voted themselves a 32% increase in their salary. Now, 32 percent. I know the nurses of our province received, I think, a fair and reasonable increase in their salaries, about 20, 21 percent, and I think that was reasonable. I think the nurses understood and accepted that.

They signed the contract for that, but when the trustees of the River East Transcona School Board voted themselves a 32% increase in their salaries, I think it sends the wrong message. I wish they had done something different. I understand that trustees have a challenging job in front of them trying to provide the best education for our children, but to vote them- selves for that particular type of increase, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think is irresponsible.

I know in talking just today with some of my constit- uents, they referenced th e fact that they think that that is irresponsible as well, but that is something that the trustees themselves are going to have to be accountable for. With the coming school division budget, it is going to be interest- ing to see how those trustees portray their salary increases in light of th e budget decisions that they are about to make. I am going to be watch- ing that particular issue very, very closely.

With respect to the school division as well, there are a number of superintendents and assistant superintendents that are within that division, and you only need to look at the assignment list that they provide. I think that we have, perhaps, too many assistant super- intendents in the division. I think that that was not what the intention of the school division amalgamation was about, to create further bloated administration. I think it is important to see that we have a containment, and that is why we built in a cap of 4 percent of the school division budgets related to administration costs. I think, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, that the number of assistant superintendents that are involved in this school division perhaps needs to have a further look at as well. I know that, I have had a chance to talk with some of the trustees just a week ago, and I will have other opportunities in the future. I will be raising that matter with them at that time. Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, there are a number of issues related to assignments that I have had the pleasure and honour of taking on. I know my colleagues, the Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), the Member for Flin Flon (Mr.

Jennissen) and I have been actively involved in the steering committee related to the 2020 Manitoba transportation vision. We have had the chance to travel to many communities of the province of Manitoba to consult Manitobans about the state of our tr ansportation system in

392 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 our province. I know the Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) ha s talked quite openly about transportation in Question Period here, where he questioned our Minister of Trans- portation (Mr. Smith) about how we expend our fuel taxes that we collect in this province, and took some exception to the fact that the monies that he said were not all expended back into transportation, all the revenue we collect is not expended back into transportation.

Well, I can tell the Member for River Heights that, and we go back into the years '96 and '97, so it is a combination of the two governments, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the revenue that was collected in this province through driver's licence premiums, fuel taxes, sanctions and other permit fees, amounted to $1.6358 billion over the course of that time, from 1996- 97 budget year until now. We expended $1.646 billion over the course of that period of time; $10.2 million more was expended on our trans- portation system than we took in as revenue. So we are spending more than we are actually taking in.

The dilemma that we have, and the information that we are sharing with Manitobans through the 16 public meetings that we are holding around the province, and the 15th meeting will occur this evening in Swan River, the 14th meeting was in Dauphin last evening, is the fact that we have more transportation infrastructure than we can sustain at the current funding levels. That is the dilemma that the previous government faced. That is the dilemma that our Government faces, and it is a challenge that we are taking in and through our consul- tations with Manitobans.

We want Manitobans to be aware of the circumstances, and we want Manitobans to be involved in solutions to those challenges. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, through our 2020 process, we are consulting with Manitobans about our transportation system, and we will bring that information back to the Government through the form of a report that will occur sometime next year. Of course, then, Manitobans will also be able to share with us, through their challenges, how they anticipate the system that they envision for the future, leading to the year 2020 and beyond, and how we are going to sustain that transportation system.

We have heard questions here again today with respect to the airports. The airports, the marine, the rail and the road systems of our province are vital to the continuation of the economic and social opportunities for the people of our province, and we want to make sure that Manitobans, no matter where they live, are afforded similar opportunities to proceed and to continue with their daily lives, Mr. Deputy Speaker. With that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think I will conclude my remarks.

I want to wish members of this Legislative Chamber and the staff that are here, yourself and the Speaker, the very best for the coming Christmas season. Economic op- portunities, we hope, will improve and continue to improve, and we wish you the best in health and happiness for the coming year. Thank you for the opportunity to add my comments and my pride about this Government's Throne Speech here in this Fourth Session of this Legislative Assembly. Mr.

David Faurschou (P ortage la Prairie): It is once again a pleasure to rise as the Member for Portage la Prairie, which I believe and feel always is an honour and a privilege to represent that great community of Portage la Prairie, steeped in history, that is coming up to 200 years as a continuously inhabited settlement on the plains of western Canada. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to welcome all members of the Manitoba Leg- islative Assembly back to the Legislature here in regard to the fourth sitting of the Thirty-seventh Legislature.

I would also like to take this op- portunity to welcome back the staff of the Clerk's Office, as well as the staff of the ergeant-at-Arms. S * (15:10) Also, I believe that the pages are going to have an experience of a lifetime, so I have heard and understand. I hope that is indeed the case. I also want to recognize the interns that are working with the respective caucuses here in the Legislature, and I wish them well and hope their experiences are positive as well. The members have made note of announced retirements pending the call of the next election.

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 393 I want to do the same, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and recognize those colleagues that have indicated that they are giving up their tenure as members of this Assembly, most notably the dean of the Legislature, the representative for Lakeside. I will miss his counsel. I have always respected him and had the opportunity growing up in the constituency of Lakeside to have the honourable member represent my interests in the Legislative Assembly. I hope that he has a long and very prosperous retirement, one filled with many pleasures.

I hope to, at times, come calling and enjoy once again discussions of a political nature. I also would like to recognize the honourable Member for Morris (Mr. Pitura) who has announced his retirement, being an indi- vidual that I came to know and recognize his skills as an agricultural representative when he served the people of Manitoba as an agricultural representative through the Department of Agriculture.

I remember very vividly travelling cross- country here in Manitoba in the dead of winter, one very frosty cold morning at 7 a.m., to meet with the agricultural representative that was putting together groups around the province that would bring together a collective wisdom in marketing of their commodities. These market- ing groups came to be in the Portage la Prairie area, of which I was one. I have to say that was the end result of the honourable Member for Morris's wisdom and counsel. I want to say that I appreciate that always. As well, the Member for Minnedosa (Mr.

Gilleshammer) is going to be leaving the Leg- islative Assembly to pursue a number of dif- ferent interests, but most notably, as he stated here in the Legislature, is that of his family which I know he holds most dear to him. I am certain that the family will keep the honourable Member for Minnedosa very active once he finds a little more time on his hands when retired from the Legislative Assembly. I might just note that it was not only the Member for Minnedosa that stated family as a deciding factor in their announcements, but, as well as the Member for Minnedosa, the Member for Morris (Mr.

Pitura ) and the Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns) said "the family." As you can appreciate yourself, Mr. Deputy Speaker, family does give up a lot, so that we can give of ourselves and of our time in the service of the people of Manitoba. As well, I look across the Chamber to the Minister of Labour (Ms. Barrett), who also has announced her retirement and is going on to pursue other interests. I know that she has dedicated a lot of her life to the political process, not only as a member, but behind the scenes in the New Democratic Party.

Without the dedication of persons who support us here in the Legislative Assembly, as members, we would be much the lesser, and, perhaps, we would not even be able to serve, have that opportunity without many, many people supporting us. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have spent many days here in the Legislative Assembly listening to the debate about the Throne Speech. I would like to, at this time, dedicate my time to examin- ing what we do and what we do not see in the Throne Speech.

There have been numerous headlines that have been in the respective media outlets that give their indication as to their thoughts and their editors' that this particular Throne Speech is what they term a real snoozer, a Throne Speech that is dull, weak and shallow, a Throne Speech that talks of the economy, yet little is mentioned about the economy. I would like to talk of the Throne Speech that few have really wanted to truly debate, because listening to the respective members rise from their seats to debate this particular docu- ment, rarely have they chosen to do so.

A lot have talked about their particular activities in the time away from the Chamber. Others have chosen to talk of their successes elsewhere. Others have chosen to talk of the alternative throne speech which we on this side of the Chamber put to the people of Manitoba a couple of days in advance of the Government bringing forward their Throne Speech. It is obvious by the amount of time spent by members on the government side of the House to debate of the alternative throne speech, obvious- ly the headlines ring very true. It is dull. It is weak and it is shallow, because there is nothing there to talk about.

They have to talk about the

394 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 alternative throne speech to have even anything to talk about whatsoever. Actions speak much louder than words. If, in fact, there was sub- stance to their Throne Speech, then they would want to extol and highlight those particular points. Before I get right into the depth of discus- sion, there are some slightly less than accurate comments that have been made by members opposite in just the last few minutes. I want to say that we have fallen in the rankings of unemployment so far as that we no longer hold the top spot.

Alberta now has fewer persons unemployed than Manitoba. We here in Man- itoba are maintaining a low unemployment rate because we are exporting all of those young, bright Manitobans to other jurisdictions, because we do not offer the employment opportunities they are seeking and can build their own lives upon. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will state that in a news

article from this past weekend, that here in Manitoba we have grown in the number of individuals who are seeking employment by 1700 workers. Of those 1700, only 800 that entered the workforce found employment; 900 of the 1700 individuals entering the workforce last month joined the ranks of the unemployed. They were looking for employment oppor- tunities that would fulfil their own lifestyle requirements and have not seen that here in Manitoba. So they remain unemployed. Also, the news

article refers that Alberta continues to lead the way with 16 000 additional employment opportunities, following that with Ontario, Québec, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. The rest remain largely unchanged, Manitoba being one of those. Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I do not know how the Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines (Ms. Mihychuk) can stand in the House here and extol all of the virtues happening under the current administration with little recognition of the previous administration that put in place a lot of which today is providing opportunities to Manitobans.

We listened to the Industry and Trade Minister yesterday talking about im- migration, an immigration Nominee Program that is, indeed, doing good work. However, it was the previous administration, under the Filmon direction, that provided for that program. The only thing that both ers me at the present time about the immigration Nominee Program is that it is so understaffed. They are overwhelmed. In fact, I placed a telephone call asking that someone from the program respond to myself as an MLA on a query so that I can, in turn, guide others regarding this program. I have yet to receive a reply.

The minister said that her staff is overworked and does not have the time to respond. * (15:20) Now, why, then, are we adding staff in other departments that are perhaps not contributing as much? I should not get into the situation as to playing one employee in the civil service against the other employee, but right at the present time, we need individuals in the province of Manitoba to address the skills-set shortages that we see in numerous, numerous fields. So it is the Depart- ment of Immigration that I look to as playing a large role in satisfying that requirement.

So I believe that that department needs to have the resources so that it can, indeed, satisfy the requirements, as all of us hope that they can. Mr. Deputy Speaker, this particular Throne Speech, as I said, has very little substance, although it tries to draw attention to numerous successes, as I have mentioned through im- migration. Yet nowhere in the Throne Speech does it credit the previous administration. They also talk about affordable government. Again, that is from the previous administration's goals that a government always be affordable to that of the people.

An Honourable Member: Not the way the NDP handle it. Mr. Faurschou: That is very, very true in regard to this New Democratic Party. They pay only lip-service to the statement of affordable government, when the documents released by the Department of Finance say that this admin- istration has added over $800 additional debt to every man, woman and child living in the province of Manitoba. That is unrefuted. No one can say differently. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we talk about the Throne Speech, and it says that they are building

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 395 through research and innovation, once again extolling the virtues of the SMARTpark that is now under construction at the University of Manitoba. Yet that project had its roots in the previous administration. All of the foundation work towards that project was done before the present Government came to office, yet they are highlighting that as their accomplishment. Non- sense.

Raising and retaining investment: The previous administration is responsible for mak- ing the most dramatic reinvestment here in the province of any administration at any time in the history of the province, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker, another point is build- ing communities, that this Government is work- ing on a strategy for rural Manitoba. How can this administration say that they are working on a strategy for rural Manitoba and not even mention agriculture. Agriculture, the very backbone of rural Manitoba. Unbelievable that they would not even see fit to recognize agriculture.

They do mention, though, the building of the Simplot plant in Portage la Prairie. Once again, that particular project stemmed from the good work of the representa tive for Lakeside, who went out of his way to provide for that particular project. It is just under this administration that the project is now coming into being, because we are all aware of the length of time between the foundation work until full construction of those particular projects. Once again this Government speaks nothing of their vision or understanding of what it takes to move Manitoba forward.

They talk of build- ing on the energy advantage. I know that there are other things that one can speak of here, but I hope you get an understanding of where I am going with this particular text. It is a rehash of the previous administration, trying to take the credit for in their administration. Now, we are again talking about what we are looking for to the futu re. I believe the future lies within the context of the alternative throne speech. I know that members across the way agree with me, because th ey have spent so much time debating that particular document.

That particular document does talk about advanced education. I do want to take a moment to talk about education, because education is empower- ment. It empowers persons to succeed, to pro- vide for themselves and those that rely on them within their families. Our alternative throne speech talks about tax credits and making certain that those individuals look to Manitoba, not only as an opportunity for employment, but opportunity for prosperity, because they will be able to realize a greater return after their hard day's labour remains in their jeans.

Through these tax credits, their education will effectively be offset. I believe that that is not only something that will come to be after the next election, it will, in fact, be looked upon and, indeed, it has been recognized, when we first put this particular program out, as being innovative and progressive. I believe that the young people of Manitoba will benefit from that. In regards to the ed ucation here in the province of Manitoba, it is paramount that each and every individual, regardless of where they reside here in the province, has the opportunity to gain the skills necessary.

A lot of that ad- ditional cost, if you reside in the rural, comes from a second residency or from the expenses of a commute to and from the post-secondary educational institutions that are located in Brandon, The Pas and Winnipeg. The previous administration saw the neces- sity and encouraged the providing of program- ming to the rural of Manitoba with the Campus Manitoba concept. The Campus Manitoba con- cept, I am pleased to say, is growing and is, in fact, providing that university education to those that perhaps would not have had the opportunity to do so through additional costs of travel and commuting.

The community colleges, as well, have been putting forward programming throughout the province, and, again, it is the previous adminis- tration that provided for that. I might just speak very specifically of the licensed practical nursing program which the Assiniboine Community Col- lege is moving around from site to site within the province of Manitoba, providing that valued program to persons without the additional cost of

396 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 relocation. That is a true success story because each and every location that that program is offered in has had applications far in excess of the ability of the program to provide. Each class has 25 positions, and always many more than 25 ave applied for that. h * (15:30) On that point of licensed practical nursing, there was one member of the government side of the House that spoke extensively about the licensed practical nursing program that was attempted to be killed by the previous adminis- tration. The Minister of Health (Mr.

Chomiak) could not have been farther away from the truth. I speak from experience. I have a sister-in-law who is a licensed practical nurse, and through the previous administration, she saw her responsibilities expand at the Portage and District General Hospital, not contract. There are more licensed practical nurses working at the Portage and District General Hospital than there were, and it is being expanded. That was under the previous administration, once again. The licensed practical nursing program is, again, a success story.

When the current Minister of Health attempts to downplay that very vital career as a licensed practical nurse, I have to say on behalf of my sister-in-law how much it pains her. We are debating the Throne Speech, and I would like to say that, although we do not say who is in or out of the Chamber, we know today, as we are coming to the vote, that, at the present time, the Premier (Mr.

Doer) is down glad- handing in Ottawa with those that are respon- sible for ratification of the Kyoto Protocol, and I can only wonder aloud as to whether or not the Premier will be able to join us for the vote later this afternoon on his Government's Throne Speech, which I believe is unprecedented that that could possibly take place. Mr. Speaker in the Chair.

Much more can be said but, perhaps, something is up in regard to the Throne Speech and some of the members opposite, as one of illusion, that they are the ones responsible for some of the successes going on with the economy, some of the successes going on at the present time in various constituencies throughout the province as to their success. That could not be farther from the truth. Upon examination of the Throne Speech, specifics that that Throne Speech cites, all have their roots, and, I repeat, all have their roots in the previous administration. [interjection] I know the Member for Dauphin-Roblin (Mr.

Struthers) chuckles at that remark. Yet, when he was on his feet, I looked at his dialogue, and there was, again, not one specific example that 100 percent could be attributed to the current administration. Not one. All of the things cited, complained about, done and promoted all came from the previous adminis- tration. [interjection] Mr. Speaker, I now hear from members of the government side of the House that I should support the Throne Speech. How can I support a Throne Speech from individuals who want to give the illusion to Manitoba that they are responsible for some of the examples cited therein?

That would be hypocrisy, so I will not be supporting the Throne Speech as a work done by the current administration, because it is not. So, Mr. Speaker, ju st leaving the op- portunity to address and debate the Throne Speech, I want to say with dismay, some of the shortsighted legislation that has come forward and is causing no end of grief to Manitobans and Manitobans trying to go about their business.

I speak specifically about the legislation that was supposed to crack down on solvent abuse and intoxicating substances that are readily available in retail outlets by passing legislation making it the responsibility of the store clerk to keep those intoxicating substances out of those who might abuse those particular substances. This administration believes that it is always somebody else's responsibility, and they want to make someone else responsible for others who are not taking responsibility for themselves. This particular legislation speaks specifically to that.

They want retailers, grocery clerks, bag boys and girls to make a decision as to whether somebody who is handling a particular product is going to abuse that product. How can anyone be expected to make that judgment call? Yet this Government passed legislation asking Manitobans to do just that.

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 397 Another piece of legislation, one that makes a failed attempt at combating the use of tobacco products here in the province. They feel that by hiding tobacco products, they will successfully cut down on the use of tobacco products. Mr. Speaker, I do not know what has brought this particular illusion on, but the reality of it is that retailers throughout the province are changing their business plans after the passage of this legislation.

Just two days ago, the headlines in the paper cite Mac's Convenience Stores' Kim Trowbridge, vice-president for Mac' s Convenience Stores, Western Canada, that they have decided to change their business plan, and instead of opening 20 to 30 stores in Manitoba, they are moving that business plan over to a more business-friendly province, as she states. What province, you ask? Alberta and B.C. With a great deal of government intervention into our business, it just becomes an unreasonable environment for us to want to invest, so we are moving to a more busin ess-friendly province, Trowbridge said. I think, Mr.

Speaker, that speaks, once again, volumes about another piece of legislation that is totally ineffective. If one was really, really serious about underage consumption of tobacco products, one should have gone about creating legislation that possession of tobacco products when a person is under the age of majority should, in fact, be illegal. That would really cut to the chase. If one was serious about young people and tobacco products and keeping them apart, that legislation should have been brought in, not legislation to hide from view of underaged individuals.

I have no idea how anyone can be sold on that. * (15:40) I leave with those two examples of poorly thought out and totally ineffective legislation that we Manitobans have had to endure under this current administrati on. In parting, I know that those on the other side of the Legislative Assembly recognize that they have erred on occasion.

We are willing on this side of the House to hear their apologies and to see a rescinding of legislation, especially legislation, I might add, that is known as Bill 18 that is prohibiting the purchase of a rail line running north through the Interlake, providing a valuable transportation link that may not be there because of a piece of legislation that is preventing the sale of that particular rail line. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to rise in the House and to debate some of the legislation that has been passed, most speci- fically the Throne Speech that we will be voting on later this afternoon.

I will say at this juncture I am not in favour of the motion to adopt the Throne Speech because, basically, it does not provide for what we need here in the province of Manitoba, because, if we are not moving ahead, we are falling behind. That is what this Throne Speech is effectively doing to all Manitobans. It is keeping us stationary where we must be moving ahead. Otherwise, we are falling behind. Hon.

Drew Caldwell (Minister of Family Services and Housing): It gives me great pleasure and is indeed a privilege to rise today in the Manitoba Legislature to put a few remarks on the record on behalf of the people of Brandon East with regard to the Throne Speech. Mr. Speaker, the Throne Speech, as introduced by the Doer government this session, gives unprecedented profile to Brandon and western Manitoba.

This unprecedented focus on Brandon is manifested in reality through the initiatives that the Doer government has under- taken in Brandon over the course of its mandate, first and foremost the construction of the Brandon Regional Health Centre, a project that had been announced by the Filmon government five times and never delivered on throughout the 1990s, a shameful record of raising expectations in western Manitoba and then dashing them.

I am very, very proud that our Government, the Doer government, is the Government respon- sible for constructing and funding the renewal of the Brandon Regional Health Centre for all citizens in western Manitoba. On that same note, I am very proud that the Doer government has undertaken the con- struction of the health studies building at Brandon University to support our Government's commitment to expanding health care excellence in the province of Manitoba. Further along this line, I am very proud of the rural recruitment and

398 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 10, 2002 retention strategy that the Doer government has undertaken to ensure that health care profes- sionals have opportunities in rural Manitoba to practise their profession and to support the health care of Manitobans in western Manitoba. I am also very proud, Mr. Speaker, that the Doer government has undertaken an expanded nurse training program that will result in hundreds of nurses graduating from programs in Manitoba post-secondary institutions to assist in the provision of health care excellence for Manitobans wherever they exist in the province. Mr.

Speaker, the Throne Speech's focus on Brandon also underscor es our commitment to post-secondary education. Mention in the Throne Speech was made to the exciting pros- pect of establishing a campus for Assiniboine Community College on the north hill of Brandon in the very historic site of the former Brandon Mental Health Centre.

This very grand campus on the north hill of Brandon allows western Manitoba an unprecedented opportunity to profile post-secondary education in that part of the province and, indeed, allows the province of Manitoba itself to establish its reputation as a centre of educational excellence in Canada. So I was very, very pleased to see in the Throne Speech mention of that exciting opportunity for Brandon, for Assiniboine Community College and for western Manitoba. The Brandon School Division, Mr.

Speaker, is also a beneficiary of the Doer government's commitment to educational excellence, as are school divisions throughout western Manitoba. In Brandon, I had the privilege to attend last week with my colleague the honourable Minister of Transportation and Government Services (Mr. Smith) at the official opening of the new expanded gymnasium and science laboratory at J. R. Reid School in Brandon.

Soon, we will be opening a new expanded facility at Linden Lanes School in Brandon, and some months ago, I had the privilege at my alma mater of Neelin High School to open the most comprehensive life skills suite of any public school in the province of Manitoba. In terms of education, post secondary and public, Mr. Speaker, the Doer government's record is second to none in the history of the province of Manitoba.

In Brandon and western Manitoba, it means expansion of programming opportunities and capital projects at Brandon University, expansion of program opportunities and capital projects at Assiniboine Community College, expansion of educational opportunities in the public school system in western Manitoba and, indeed, throughout Manitoba, as well as the construction of capital projects in the Brandon School Division. Mr. Speaker, joining health care and education as areas of significant profile and importance to this Government, is our commit- ment to the economy.

In western Manitoba and in Brandon, this has meant support for the Key- stone Centre, capital support for the Keystone Centre, organizational support for the Keystone Centre, developing that facility to place it amongst the leaders in terms of convention and agricultural event facilities, not only in western Canada, in the Great Plains of the United States and Canada, but in Canada totally.

The develop- ment of a capital works project for the renewal of the Keystone Centre, the development of an organizational framework that will see that facility expand in the y ears to come and, indeed, the development of a hotel complex with in excess of 150 rooms adja cent to that facility, places the Keystone Centre at the front of convention and conference facilities in western Canada and the North American Great Plains. Also, in terms of the economy, Mr.

Speaker, more than just the Keystone Centre and our focus on developing that convention agricultural event facility in Brandon, we have undertaken the single largest energy project ever undertaken in Brandon, with the development of a $180- million gas turbine conversion and renewal of the Brandon East hydro generating station. It is very important to all Manitobans that our hydro resources in the provin ce are maximized to benefit Manitobans, are maximized to benefit the economic development opportunities that hydro presents for Manitoba. This is very importa nt, Mr.

Speaker, because members opposite oftentimes like to portray themselves as the champion of rural Manitoba. [interjection] It is lip-service, as my colleague the MLA for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) suggested. It is lip-service when members portray them-

December 10, 2002 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 399 selves as the champions of rural Manitoba. For 12 years, nearly 12 years, they sat on the gov- ernment side of the House and allowed hydro rates in Winnipeg to be lower than hydro rates in ural Manitoba. r * (15:50) It took a change in government, an NDP government, to equalize hydro rates for all, thus giving rural Manitobans the benefit of the lowest hydro rates in North America, something that members opposite seemed not to concern them- selves with during their time of government.

Of course, my colleague for Dauphin-Roblin and my colleague for Swan River, my colleague for Brandon West and myself representing Brandon East look forward to being joined by more members from western Manitoba after the next election so that the benefits of our focus on rural development and the rural economy can be spread throughout the province more aggres- sively than they have been in our first mandate. In terms of tax reductions, members op- posite again sat in this Chamber and portrayed themselves as the champions of taxation reform in this province.

Well, th e record is very clear: 12 years from members opposite with no meaningful tax reduction; 3 years in office for the Doer government. We have averaged over 11.5 percent in terms of taxation decreases for Manitobans over the course of our first three years in office. We have begun and announced the elimination of the education support levy property tax, something members opposite could have done during their time in office, their 12 years in office where they talked a good show but did not follow that talk through with action. We have seen it over and over again.

I made reference ea rlier to the five announcements for the construction of the Brandon Regional Health Centre, five announce- ments, five ribbon cuttings, no project off the ground. The same can be said for the lip-service in terms of rural hydro rates, the lip-service in terms of tax reductions; no meaningful tax reductions over 11 years; 11.5% reduction in three years of our mandate; no movement on reducing the ESL property tax for 11.5 years; $10-million reduction last year and announced to phase out that tax over the course of our mandate in the future. Our Government, again, Mr.

Speaker, in terms of corporate taxes, the first reduction in corporate taxes since the Second World War was made under the Doer government; 11.5 years' talk from the other side, but no action. I think Manitobans understand that record very well. We are building health care excellence in this province as a government. We are building educational excellence in this province as a government.

We are building for meaningful economic development and tax reductions during the course of this Government, all of which were sadly lacking during the 1990s when members opposite had power in this Legislature and in this province. Another note that is of some importance to Brandon is the Neighbourhoods Alive! initiative that was undertaken by our Government upon forming office in 1999. Members opposite again held office for 11.5 years, had no affordable housing programs, in fact no public housing program of any nature.

Neighbourhoods Alive! has assisted in supporting the Brandon Neighbourhood Renewal Corporation. We are approaching 400 new units, new and renewed units in the city of Brandon in three years in office. That is 400 more units than were built during the time of members opposite when housing was not even on the radar screen, not even spoken of, unlike the other areas that I addressed that were spoken

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-4-10
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 4th hansardpdf 10.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	f2a103e1b06482a1740e1d1e0bd9c4d88044d7b6

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