Volume 2 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIR'tY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 2nd Session VERB.ATIM REPORT Tuesday, April 24, 191i SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES M. RUSSELL Number 59

April 24. 1973. Tape 1285, P&Re,l -- apb The House met at 3:00 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: Order please'. REPORTS OF STANDING AND SELECT CO?-'MITTEES: HON. T.~.DOYLE (MINISTER OF TOURIS~): Mr. Speaker, I would like to table for the information of members of the honourable House and the public in general the report of the parks division for 1972. I think all honourable members of the House, particularly those who have parks in their districts will be very interested in the various statistics which this report shows and I would therefore like to table it. MR. JOHN A.CARTER: ~r.

Speaker, I would like to table, I hope it is in order, it happens to be the issue of the weekend "Telegram",Saturday's iaaue,April 21. That issue contains several arguments, very powerful arguments in favour of delaying the C.J.O.N. application for establishing_ MR. SPEAKER: Order please! I doubt very much whether it is in order for the honourable member to table this at this particular time. MR. CARTER: I will abide by your ruling, Mr. Speaker. NOTICES OF MOTION: HON. T.A.HICKMAN (MINISTER OF JUSTICE): Mr.

Speaker, on behalf of the honourable the Minister of Manpower an~ Industrial Relations,! give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to intorduce a bill, ''An Act Further To Amend The Workmen's Compensation Act." and a bill, "An Act To Amend The Labour Relations Act." On behalf of the Minister of Education,a bill, "An Act Further to Amend The Education (Teacher Training) Act.'' HON. J.C.CROSBIE (~INISTER OF FINANCE): ~r.

Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave of the House to introduce a bill, "An Act To Provide For Coll~ctive Bargaining Fespecting Teachers' Salaries and Working Conditions." HON . H .A.COLLINS ().!INISTER OF KTNICIPAL AFFAIRS AND HOUSING): ?-fr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Local Government Act, 1972." HON. DR. T.C.FARRELL (MINISTER OF TRANSPORTATION AND COMMUNICATIONS): 5·;4~ Mr.

I April 24, 1973, Tape 1285, Page 2 - apb Speaker, I give notice that I will .on tomorrow aak leave to introduce a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Highway Traffic Act." RON°. T. V. RICKEY (MINISTER OF PROVINCIAL AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT) : Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Automobile Insurance Act." OUESTIONS: HON. H.R.V.EARLE (MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS AND SERVICES): Mr.

Speaker, I ask leave to table the answer to question (271) asked by the honourable member for Fogo,on the Order Paper of April 17, the answer to question (272) asked by the same honourable gentleman,on the Order Paper of April 17 and the answer to question (302),on today's Order Paper,asked by the same honourable gentleman. BON. DR. A.T.ROWE (MINISTER OF HEALTH): I would like to table the answer to question (259~ on the.Order Paper of Monday, April 16, asked by the honourable the Leader of the Opposition. ~- SPEAKER: Are there any other answers to questions? ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. S.A.NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I 8111 not sure if I should direct this question to the Minister of Finance or the Minister of Health, Sir, but perhaps one of the ministers will answer it, whichever minister is responsible. I would like to ask either the Minister of Finance or the Minister of Health whether they have received a set of proposals from the Nurses' Association in connection with negotiating a new working agreement for the nurses right across this province? MR. CROSBIE:· I will have to take that as notice and check on the matter. MR. NF.ARY: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to direct another question to the Minister of Finance then. Would the Minister of Finance inform the House if employees in the public service are to receive their annual increments on their pay cheques this month? 1'-'ll. CROSBIE: The position on that, Mr. Speaker, is the normal position. Ther~ will be no payment of increments until the new agreement is concluded. MR. NF..ARY: A supplementary question then. J would ass1D11e, ~r. Speaker, that the annual increments then will form a part of the negotiations. Is

April 25, 1973, Tape 1285, Page 3 -- apb that the a~swer that the minister ~s giving? MR. CROSBIE: That is essential _~y correct. There is no dispute abo~t the payment of increments. MR. NEARY: Watch the fur fly tomorrow. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, just so the fur will not fly unnecessarily, the amount of the annual increment is agreed but there will be no payments made of the annual increment for this year until the negotiations are concluded. That has always been the regular ••• AN HON. ME?-fBER: (Inaudible) MR. CROSBIE: Oh yes. MR. NEARY: A supplementary question then.

Will the annual increment be stacked on top of any increase that they might get? The annual increment is not a part of the negotiations, not a bargaining point as I understand it. MR. CROSBIE: (Inaudible) MR. NEARY: It is a bargaining point? MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, the position is quite clear that the annual increment is agreed. There will be an annual increment this year the same as there was last year but there will be no payment of the annual increment until negotiations are concluded. CAPT. E.WINSOR: Mr. Speaker, may I direct a question to the Minister of Transportation and Colffl!lunications?

When is the honourable minister going to be in a position to let us have a list of the works or programmes that are r,oing to be done in each district this yeAr? DR. FARRELL: • Mr. Speaker, in answer to the honourable member, I was hoping that I would have that information today. I did have meetings prior to the Easter recess and perhaps I will have the information this afternoon -the moment we have it, I will be releasing this information as soon as we get our programmes gelled together. MR. CARTER: I have a question that I would like to direct to the Leader of the Opposition.

Would the Leader of the Opposition please out­ line the official opposition's position on the ~pplication by C.J.O.N - 5'/ .44

April 24, 1973, Tape 1285, Page 4 -- apb MR. ROBERTS: To a point of order,.Sir, the honourable gentleman from St. John's North may know nothing of the rules of the House but (welcome back, Your Honour, it .is nice to have you back) to display his appalling ignorance. When I become a minister,as I shall shortly, in due course, I shall be happy to attempt to answer his question. Until then, unfortunately, the pleasure of asking questions is reserved for the opposition and the pleasure of answering them is reserved for the ministers of the Crown. MR. CARTER: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

I am quoting section (171) Beauchesne, item (jj). MR. ROBERTS: "'1l. SPEAKER: One can question anything one wants. I will take that under advisement and rule on it later. BON. G.R.OTTENHEIMER (MINISTER OF EDUCATION): Mr. Speaker, if I may have leave of the House to give.notice that I shalL on tomorrow ask leave to int"t"oduce a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Education (Teachers' Pensions) Act." On motion of the honourable the ~inister of Forestry and Agriculture a bill, ''An Act To Amend The Farm Development Loan Act." read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

On motion of the honourable the Minister of Finance a bill, ''Jui Act To Provide For The Control Of Alcoholic Liquor." read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the Minister of Finance a bill, "An Act To Provide For The Establishment Of The Newfoundland Liquor Corporation.'' read a first time,ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

On motion of the honourable the Minister of Justice,a bill, ''An Act Further To Amend The F.xpropriation Act." read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow, On motion of the honourable the M:ln1.ster of FinancP a bill, "An Act To Amend, Revise And Consolidate The General Law Relating '!o The Public Revenue, The Raising Of Certain Loans Authorized By The Legislature 5'l 4f:-

April 24, 1973, Tape 1295, Page 5 -- apb And ·The Auditing Of The Public Accounts." read a first time, ordered - ~ read a second time on tomorrow. MR. SPEAKER: Committee of Ways and ~eans. (Adjourned debate on the budp:et). The honourable ll'emher for St John's East, ·MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, after the debate or the consideration of the estimates which has taken substantially all of the time for the past two or three weeks, there is probably not need to say anything specifically with respect to the matter of the budget itself but to confine oneselves to a few general words concerning this speech.

First of all let me say at the outset that I would like to congratulate the Minister of Finance for probably one of the finest Budget Speeches that this chamber has ever heard. Last year he presented a Budget Speech telling it as it is, as it were, setting forth our position and . this year the Budget Speech quite adequately sets forth the course and direction which this government is going to take in the weeks and the months and the years ahead,insofar as it can be predicted at the present time, taking into consideration the financial constraints under which this province labours. I think, Mr.

Speaker, it is well to point out that I feel it is grossly and manifestly unfair to hear accusations of blackmail (which is the word that was used) hurled across the floor of this chamber against the Minister of Finance,accusing him of saying that if the teachers wanted more money, the public servants wanted more money, the nurses wanted more money, the taxes would have to go up. I would like to point out, right from the first, that these words were not said. What was said appears on page (15) of the Budget Speech, Mr.

Speaker, and I take the time to read this particular paragraph now because I think the point is warranted to be made, The Minister of Finance said; ''.It must be made perfectly clear to the public that if the demands for increased social services and if the demand for increased wages in the public services are in excess of those presently provided for in the 1973-1974 budget, it will be 5·;4()

April 24, 1973, Tape 1285, Page 6 -- apb necessary for this government to contemplate before the end of the coming fiscal year an interim budget requiring tax increases or reductions in the existing government programmes. This action would be taken because we must maintain a current account surplus to offset the current account deficit of last year and to manage responsibly the finances of the Province of Newfoundland." At no time, Mr.

Speaker, despite the distortions that have been cast upon these words. did the honourable the Minister of Finance indicate, as I read this Budget Speech, that if the teachers, the public servants or the nurses required increases that it was necessarily going to result in an extra tax burden which was to be cast on the people of this province. That was not said, it was not intended to be said and it was not actually said. What in effect the minister was saying and the government were saying was that you cannot (something that we had to recognize) drive a cadillac car with a volltawagen engine.

The people of this province really have to come to a realization, we all have to come to a realization of this very basic fact, that we cannot always have what we cannot afford. The reasons we cannot afford it, Mr. Speaker, are very evident. This is what the minister was saying, purely a simple fact of economics,one which he has stated and one which the government stand behind and any sane, sensible rational person would stand behind.

It. has to be realized in this province by the, as it were, butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker, it has to be realized by councillors, by social, community and church leaders and it has to be recognized by everybody. We are, granted, in a much different position. We must watch carefully the monies which have been expended, which are to be expended. This is all the budget said. We must watch them, Mr. Speaker, because of various things.

Not only because it is prudent but we must wa~ch them all the more closely because of certain instances that occurred over the past twenty-three years,and that we are not supposed to talk about. l.'c are told wP should not tnlk about it but we have to bring out the fact that,for instance,this year we would have had

April 24, 1973, Tape 1285, Page 7 -- apb much more money to spend if we did not have a linerboard mill which is draining this .province of some $37 million this year alone. We would have more money in this provi?ce today, Mr. Speaker, if it were not for the fact that huge concessions were given in times past to industries attempting to set up in this province. To a large extent we are,in effect, giving away our birthright. We have given away our power to ERCO.

It has already been indicated that the negotiations on the Churchill Falls power should have brought more revenue to this province,and on and on and on back through the piece to 1949. Another reason why we do not have, Mr. Speaker, the money that we ought to have for all these essential public services, is the failure of this province to place itself after confederation within the Canadian context.

Instead, we were content to go where the previous administration were content to go, to Ottawa, like beggar on horseback, with the predictable result; We were treated like beggars and 4id not really get all that we were entitled to do or that we should have gotten. I could go back again and again even further, right from the steel plant out at Donovan's,right back, yes, even though we are not supposed to talk about it, to chocolate factories and rubber plants etc.,so that now we have this huge per capita debt under which we must labour. The day of reckoning has come, Mr.

Speaker, (this is all the Budget Speech said) and we must take the appropriate action. This makes the action of the opposition, demanding expenditures for resources which just are not available and are not available to a large extent because of the. neglect and mismanagement of the administration of which they were members and for which they are responsible,all the more really insidious, irresponsible and insupportable. We must tell them as it is,as the honourable ~r.

Jamieson has indicated on the public platforms,(he first coined the phrase) and the people must realize this (this is all the budget says) and we must recognize the limits on our resources and fully be aware of the fact that these limitations are the direct result,to a large extent, of the mistakes of the heart that we heard of from time to time. This attempt, this attempt, Mr. Speaker, hy the opposition, unsuccessful as it is, but 5'/4b

April 24, 1973, Tape 1285, Page 8 -- apb it ia an attempt to goad on the people of thi• provincn who have been denied from realizing their own potential gnina and preying on their expectations by again and again reiteratin~ provisions with respect to the mothers' allowance that we would dearly love to be ·1n a position to be able to pay, again and again meeting with the students of memorial,as we saw the other day,and urging them to get what they could within the constraints of law, all of this, I would submit, when you take it within the context of the reason why, the major reason why a lot of these progra111111es had to be curtailed, makes the action of the opposition that much more blameworthy.

We could have done many of these things and much more, Mr. Speaker, I want to point out at the outset,if it were not for these albatrosses or albatria or whatever you want to call them that hang around our necks and threaten to choke this province in the years to come. But despite this, despite this, Mr.

Speaker, as a result of one year's labour of the Progressive Conservative Government, despite the fact that we have had very little to work with and despite the reasons, let us set the reasons aside right now but let us remember the fact that we had very little to work with, we have had some very, very favourable results over the past year. The results,for instance,have shown that the gross provincial product of this province in the preceding year was higher than t~t of the Canadian Nation as a whole.

I quote from the book that is put out by the Economic and Research Ananysis Section, Fiscal Policy Division, The Department of Finance,for 1973,which in turn is quoting available statistics(T~ey are not just pulled out of the airywhere it says that in 1972, the year just past, the Newfoundland economy experienced a very substantial year of growth with most sectors showing a strong advance. The Newfoundland gross provincial product is estimated to have exceeded $1.5 billion,wh_ich is an increase of about eleven per-cent over 1971.

This is a more rapid rate of growth than experienced in the Canadian economy in general. The Canadian gross national product is estimated to have increased by 10.5 per-cent in 1972. s·;4s

April 24, 1973, Tape 1285, Page 9 -- apb These are very significant factors, Mr. Speaker, and tend to belie the old saying that they love to hurl on the other side,that "Tory times are hard times." This is an indication, Mr. Speaker, of what sane, sensible, responsible government can do to this province ·and what a firm hand at the tiller can do.

Again, another indication of the progress that we have made over the past year, despite the cards that have been stacked against us, is the fact and the very significant fact, that in 1972 ~he population of the province increased by 1.9 per-cent which is the most rapid rate of increase experienced in over ten years. This rapid rate of increase was largely as a result of excellent economic growth and a continuing large number of new construction projects. In fact, 1972 witnessed the first year in recent times that there was an apparent net in migration into the province.

This fact alone, I would suggest,is one of the more significant ones that we can take to our credit in this particular administration because we have been grappling with serious problems, we have been attempting to attack them in a responsible way and this particular statistic,which is one which has bothered the goverrm:ent since 1949, the out-migration of our younr,er people.and the fact that to a certain extent it has been stemmed somewhat is one from which we can all take a great deal of encouragement. Mr.

Speaker, all of this has been brought about and has been brought about solely by the confidence, I would suggest, in this province, the renewed confidence in this province while it is being administered by a responsive and responsible government. There are three good ways, there are three excellent examples of showing how we have had to o_perate, contained in the third, fourth and fifth supplementals to the estimates themselves. While Your Honour was away we were concerned with the first and second supplementals which were the general estimates and with the salary estimates.

Number three relates to the offshore drilling which shows how we tackled the problem which lay dormant, a very crucial prohlem in this province, which when we took power had really,in effect, lain dormant and had not been proceeded with - how we took up the cudgels and how we are proceedin~. The fourth 5'/50

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 supplement relntt\11 to how we inntltute ln,hrnr ry, lnnovntC!I ln!!w,t ry on our own hook and the third one, the linerboard,how we make tlw best of a bad deal which we have inherited. So let us take a look .for just a few moments at some of these things. Now with respect to the offshore oil exploration, Mr.

Speaker, with respect to the supplement number (3) - the offshore petroleum industry of Newfoundland and Labrador - in this we were met when we came in with hugh acreage concessions given, really hur,c,large acreage concessions to which we are bound because we are bound by the agreements made by previous governments,be they favourable or unfavourable, given for really no real consideration at all.· This despite the report that was exiatent,at the time that these grants were given,from the Economic Prospects C01M11ission,condemning the practise of giving large concessions. ~e that as it may,they were given without any real valid Food consideration.

We took it and as the supplement shows we distinguished between exploration and exploitation and we took the steps that are set forth there. I think a particular merit and a particular note is the fact that through the instrumentality and the direction of the now Minister of Industrial Development.on August 11, 1972. the joint mineral resources committee of the five Eastern provinces was reconstituted.

We have gone off now,aa the report shows,on a course of attemptin~ to negotiate this very, very ticklish and this very, very important resource to get as much as we can for the people, to get not as much as we can but to get really that which we are entitled to.

The report sets this forth in finite detail but I would like Your Honour to draw attention of the House to the important statement of policy,which is set forth on page forty-t~o of the budget speech,relating to the situation if we cannot 11,et a settlP.ment which is satisfactory to Newfoundl3n<l,and in that case we have to look at the legal case. 5'151 JM - 1

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 JM - 2 It says and I quote, "The particular strength of the pro~ince's legal case is very important in the settlement of the ownership dispute with the federal government.

It is sufficient . at this time to state that the government having studied the matter in detail,is convinced of the merits of the province's legal case and rer,ards the tests of its position before the courts as one alternative Rhould a suitable settlement not be reached." There are two conditioned precedents to any satisfactory settlement which in effect(! will not read them) are that we must be satisfied that we are getting certainly our fair share. Now we have the case Mr.

Speaker, the possibility that ownership may have to be settled by judicial determination, by a judicial decision,and it is to that particular eventuality that I would now like to turn my attention. I have no intention of getting into the lep,al arp,ument with respect to the greater strength of our case and other provinces and the various other angles of the merits of the case itself except to reiterate that we are convinced that we have a very strong case. If it should go,Mr. Speaker, to judicial determination, how it is to be decided is an item of great, great concern to this province.

I feel and before I state this I do not know whether some of the members in the law society for that matter on my side of the House would even agree with it and I want to also qualify the remarks before I make them by saying that I have the greatest respect for the Supreme Court of Canada, the quality of the court. It is a good court that Canadians can be proud of to be the Supreme Court of the land. However, Mr.

Speaker, I have for some time felt that the determination of the ownership of offshore resources ought not to be decided by the Supreme Court of Canada. • As I say that I make that statement with the greatest deference to the ~ench itself. But the fact of the matter is, Mr. Sp·eaker, that the judges of the Supreme Court of Canada are federally appointed. 5'/5~

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 There is not a Newfoundlander on the bench. I believe there is only one person from the Maritimes. They all live in Ottawa and Mr. Speaker, I would hazard a guess that the greatest likelihood .is that they all think like federalists.

In this province where we are wrestling mor~, where our main concem is survival, our main concern is how much money we can get to develop this province's economic considerations~ we sometimes lose sight of the fact that one of the great political science debates that occurs in this country is a debate that occurs between those leanin~ towards a strong federal central government and those who look to the confederation as being,as I feel it was originally envisaged in 1867,as really an economic union with the sociological aspects of life being generally looked after by the province itself.

Now that is probably a little bit too clean a cleava~e,but generally speaking. This debate is going on and we have seen the results of it in Ottawa and we have seen the results of it in Quebec particularly. Now I am not deprading, again as I say I want to emphasize the judges- just because a person is appointed to a bench it does not mean that he takes on- the mantel of a sacred cow. This is not a normal constitutional decision, Mr. Speaker. I would submit that this is not the normal type of constitutional decision that is normally made and ~ntrusted to the Supreme Court of Canada.

These are decisions for instance like a law is made and whether the law touches upon a mRtter of education in which case it is solely provincial or whether it touche~ on a matter say with respect to bankinR or external affairs which is federal. This is not a normal constit 'utional decision that one should expect to be made by the Supreme Court but it involves really a large portion of territory which~omee,a~d whether and how and in which way this large portion of territory comes within the confederation nation itself, into the Canadian nation.

Surely this should not be decided, this important issue should not be decided by 5'/53 JM - 3

April 24, 1973 ' Tape 1286 judges appointed by one party, by one side. The decision in the British Columbia case,and there was a decision made as we all know then by the Supreme Court of Canada ,which ruled against the province's claim at the time. We contend ours is much stronger than British Columbia,so we should succeed. But this decision should be disregarded because I do not feel that the Supreme Court, as I say, is the best and correct form to decide this very vital and important issue. The obvious question that occurs is; "Well, who shouJd?

Of course our strain here in this province beinr, of British extraction, most of us ,erhaps would prefer to have seen the judicial coll1I!littee of the privy council decide it;but heing part of the Canadian Nation and,as we must, being sensitive then to the wishes and the attitudes of our fellow Canadians in Quebec.that should be unacceptable to us just as the determination of this by the Supreme Court of France, whatever the Supreme Court maybe called in France, would not be acceptable to us. So I would feel, Mr.

Speaker, that this issue, this very crucial issue.which is not really a constitutional issue in the normal sense,as to who has the power with respect to section (91) or (92) of the British North America Act,and whether legislation falls within that particular power, I feel in the first instance that consideration o~ght to be given for this decision to be determined by the International Court of Justice at the Hague,in the first instance,that in the event that this is unpalatable to the people of Canada _ you are not interfering, hy the wav,with your sovereirnty .1t all if you decide to refer a matter to another Jurisdiction - these are soverci~n people decidin~ how the thing is ,oing to be decide<l,hut if this is not acceptahle or if the International Court would not accept the reference, Mr.

Spe.1ker, I would su?,p,est that the provinces, to~Pther with the federal govcrnm~nt, and this would probably be 5·;5~ JM - 4

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 the more acceptable one to follow, appoint an ad hoc court,consisting of recognized international jurists who are normally resident outside the confines of the Canadian Nation,and then they are the ones. , That would be the correct and proper form I would suggest to consider this particular issue and decide on it. I do not feel, Mr.

Speaker, as I say again, regardless of how the Canadian Nation may be set up, regardless of how our federal system may be set up,I do not feel that we can and we ought to have this question referred to the Supreme Court of Canada,but another body who is entireiy fresh to take a complete and absolute fresh look at it.

So much for that item number (3), that supplement number (3) where we see how this government has tackled the variou~ problems and tackled them efficiently and effectively over the past yearfwith great results as shown by increases in population and by an increase in our gross provincial product,higher than that in all of Canada as a whole.

Now let us take for a moment one quick look, a quick glimp e because much has been said about the oil refinery which is a business or an economic activity which in effect we instituted, which we brought in and which is one of the measures which we have undertaken by ourselves and have not really inherited. Now it is with some degree of concern as I look around and I hear from time to time references made by various people about Shaheen himself and about people with whom we are ne~otiating becnuse,surely to heavens! Mr. Speaker, it is not who you ne~otiate with that counts but how you negotiate.

Having seen and examined,as we all have in this House, and reconsidered the agreement which was made with respect to the second oil refinery,! feel, Mr. Speaker, that it is a model a~reement which takes into account all of the measures which we said we were goin~ to implement,when we were in opposition, which we advocated. I am not going through them but it is a well known fact that there are no concessions given. There are royalty payments provided there,and it is the way in which our 5'/e'C'. ., . ' JM - 5

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 natural resources should be developed in this province if the people are going to gain the most from their birthright. Now obviously this particular oil refinery really .sent the opposition into a tailspin and I think that was quite obvious on the one hand, ~r. Speaker, when they supported the meesure and on the other hand, like they were confused,almost punch-drunk, a few days later they come in with a resolution condemning it.

There were certain references made in this House with respect to the oil refinery and the Progressive Conservative Party's attitude that I would like to draw issue with. First of all is that we were never against, and I repeat this again, the oil refinery itself. The debates whi.ch are referred to, which occurred in the 1970 July session.and the statements that were made with respect to them all related to a condemnation of the mode of bringing about this particular industry and the concessions that were given.

So it is unfair, it is untrue and without any foundation whatsoever to say that we were against the oil refinery itself. At the same time we have some people asking questions of us,whom we met from time to time saying, "Were not you people for rural development?" And because we brouizht in this industrial development we are now against rural developmen~. Well, Mr. Speaker, I do not think there is anybody really so crass or so stupid or really so unknowing who would accept the fact that we have to have one to JM - 6 the exclusion of the other. We never said that.

We never indicated it when we were seeking election and we do not advocate it now. What we were decryinP, from the previous days was the fact that they did emphasize or they tended to emphasize just one mode of development in this province. Consequently we had the theory of "Develop or Perish," Indus trial development was the only thin~ that could succeed and must succeed. They tried to develop Chicago8 and Hamiltons here and this was the basic philosophy of the 5 '/5f;

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 previous administration. This rloes not mean they i~nore completely rural development but, Mr. Speaker, this government will not ignore rural development but will handle both of them in concert. I would just like to make those few observations with respect to the oil refinery: Number one is the fact that we were never ap,ainst the oil refinery per se but how it was negotiated before. Number two, it is not inconsistent with the policy of rural development because as far as we are concerned in order to have a healthy province we must have development in both areas.

A quick look now at what is contained in supplement number five of the budget, the albatross that hangs around our head, the linerboard. I sometimes thin~, Mr. Speaker, it might just have been as well and sensible to have installed the linerboard in the middle of Rawlins Cross as where it was in Stephenville,because we are there now and faced with the situation where the main wood supply was ori~inally intended to be in Labrador and they put a plant down in Stephenville.

I favour the usaP,e of our raw materials,:fJlsofar as we can,not only in our own province but in the sections of the province where they grow.But we were faced with this, Mr. Speaker: We are faced with the fact that the main wood supply is on the mainland part of the province and then we are faced also with the fact that the mill was placed there without any rationalization or apparent or ostensible attempt to rationalize our forest product, our woods concession, our forestry conceRsion. So when we took over, Hr.

Spenker, we all know this sorry, sad and dismal sai;ia which, as I P.ay, $17 million of our money has ~one ·intc.What we have endeavoured to do and what the honourable minister has done in his bud~et, which I say is a most col'IJ)rehensive document, is he has given four year projections ~nd set them forth. All of us should study those because this mii;take 5·;57 JM - 7

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 is really eating at our resources and I would dare say that the gross provincial product and the intlow of population could have been perhaps even higher if we did not have to grapple with this . major problem. Of course,there are many like it. A few words, Mr. Speaker, I would like to mention about the budget with re~pect to rural development.

I am delighted to see that there is approximately $4 million provided for this department but I am sorry to see• with respect to the Rural Development Authority,that there is no appropriation-in-aid and all the money has been furnished by the provincial government rather than the federal government. For the progress of this province, M~. Speaker, a necessary co.ncomitant is the faith by the federal government in our srnaller communities. This is absolutely essential and it is particularly essential that the enforced resettlement programme through the special areas in DREE be chenged.

There is no need to go into this as we all know what happens. The federal government pays the piper so it attempts to play the tune and in concert with the previous administration's dream of .:reatinJ? Chicagos and Hamiltons,they latched on to it. The money was poured in, people were resettled, people were herded into communities where they did not nece·ssarily want to go. Resettlement of course is all ri~ht if resettlement be of a voluntary nature eminating from the people themselves and not forced on them. Now this is absolutely essential in my view.

I feel it is essential that the special areas under DREE be looked at. I do not know why any bureaucrat in Ottawa or any bureaucrat in St. John's,for that matter,should be able really to look at a certain place and say that for all time you are not a special area, you will not ~et money to develop,and that is our decision. I am encourar.ed by the statement of the honourable Minister of Regional Development to the effect that this is "being considered. I note that it was contrary to the polici.es of the previous 5'/5b JM - 8

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 Liberal Administration and I am delighted if in fact the Liberal Administration in Ottawa has really s.een the light of day. While I am encouraged by Mr. Jamieson's ~ta-tement, as a Newfoundlander I know he realizes the problem and he would wish to bring these results about if he can convince the people in the liberal party. But I do note, I think I should note that on April 10, 1972,I read a rather long statement by the honourable Ministe.r of Regional and Economic Expansion,to the standing col!'mlittee of the House of Commons on regional development.

In that he talks about co-operation with the provinces as such but there does not appear to be anyway any specific mention to the changing of the special areas. I would certainly hope that the statements which have been made by all, by us, by the provincial government,which really desires to see it, by Mr. Jamieson,whom I know must desire to see it really. as a Newfoundlander,will come to fruition because we cannot, Hr.

Speaker, if confederation is to succeed not only in Newfoundland but in Quebec or anywhere, we cannot have the federal government continuing to determine sociologically how the social problems for the people in any unit of the nation are to be tackled. This was not the intention of confederation when it was envisaged in 1867 or in 1873 or in 1949 for that matter. Our concerns, I would submit, Mr. Speaker, when you strip all the bigotry away from it, all the bitterness and bigotry away ~nd you look at the bare bones.

I would say that our concerns are exactly the selfsame as the concerns of our fellow Canadians in the Province of Quebec with respect to their relationships with Ottawa. JM - 9 With this in mind and just as an aside,! object very strenuously to the saying or description that has been used,with wild -abandon really,it seems to be by everybody,federally and provincially,on all sides of both political stripes in this province.of two levels of government,and we have to get away from that concept that there 5·;5s

April 2~, 1973 Tape 1286 JM - 10 -~ are two levels of government, that there is Ottawa,the senior govermnent, and there is Newfoundland which is the junior government. This is completely and absolutely without any foundation whatsoever in fact, , in history, in .1ust1fication or by any means whatsoever.

If we are to succeed in this province, if the confederation itself is to succeed,we have to regard all provincial governments in the same way,vis-a-vis the federal p,overnment,in the same way as they were originally intended as holding the sum total of the sovereign powers of the entire nation and one is an equal partner with the other and certainly one is not subservient to the other.

When confederation was originally envisaged,because of the large expanse of land in 1867,when there were only the four provinces involved.and heavens knows there is a rnuch greater expansion of land right now, the reason why they had a confederation was that a unitarian sy~tem of government, that is one central government ruling the entire area, would not work because of the different sociological characteristics of the people, because of the various areas involved, the large,far-flung areas that it was impossible for one group in the centre part ~f Canada to determine effectively the needs of the people concerned.

Over the years,as a result of World War 1 and World War ll~this has become warped and the situation has been that because of the urgency,the provincial governments handed over to the federal power,of necessity,for their own security, they handed over to the federal power pretty well -all of their rights for their own protection. But the catch is and the unfortunate

part is that these powers were nevPr really handed back to the provinces in the way that they our,ht to be, in the way that they should be and the way that they were intended to be when confederation was entered into in 1867 and so on. We must have this. It is absolutely and completely necessary to have this attitude otherwise we are going to have 5'/6U

April 24, 1973 Tape 128(1 . . --forever and a day we are goin~ to be tenants in our own land, we are going to,in effect,in 194~ we substituted one type of colonialism for another and the colonialism that comes directly JM - 11 from London is just as unpalatahle to T'le and I l<now to all Newfoundlanders as any colonialism that is practised from Ottawa, the Capital of the Canadian Nation. So in rural development particularly l look forward to seein~ ua given a chance to develop, to aecinr. our people havin~ a chance to develop within the context of their abilit:f .es, within their own capabilities.

We cannot really, I do not see how we can,continue on really in this way. It is not a case - rural development - there are not too many trees in St. John's East except down in Bannerman Par~but rural development and how the District of Fogo or the District of Labrador South fare is just as much a concern to a representative of St. John's as it is to the various representatives themselves.

Rural development is absolutely essential to the well-being of this province and we have to understand that the shared-cost programmes that come down from Ottawa have to come down but they have to come down with the priorities and the direction of this province determined by the provincial government itself,otherwise we are in trouble. One just short few minutes, Mr. Speaker, speakinr of that district, that old and historic District of St. John's East, just a few more stirring words with respect to that. Well, Mr.

Speaker, I am fed up with people,on all sides of this House again, all of my brethren who come from the outports, who represent outport districts,saying that St. John's has everythin~ because certainly St. John's East, the area that 0 T h;we,wliich is the older part of the City of St. John's, I could show each and every inember here some of the most ai~ysmal type of housini situations that you can see anywhere in this province. When you are over in the 5'/61

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 honourable member's District of Bell -Island, before they had the new houses over in the honourable member's District of Bell Island, if they got cold in the wintertim~ they could get a bit of wood and burn it. I have been into houses in St. John's East where they are living in these places in the dead of winter and unable to light fires of any nature because of the fact they have been condemned by the fire commission. The housing situation is desperate. I wish that there were more that we could do about it.

If we had not experienced and I mean this quite sincerely, if we were not in the pseudo-financial bind in which we find ourselves as a result of the previous years or the years gone by,of having spent more than we can afford on schemes that were not beneficial_, we should be able to attack this problem on a much more forthright basis. I look forward to the energy 9f the honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing whom I would submit is the minister who has been,more so than any of his precedessors at any time,more concerned with this problem.

T look forwnrdto tackling this particular problem and seeing the situation resolve itself. It will not resolve itself, Something has to come from the Province of Newfoundland into St. John's and one can talk ad infinitum.if onP Jikes, about the fire department. You will hear it over and over again that St. John's has the fire department paid for, they have the police department paid for, they have everything etc., etc. As I say I can show you,and I represent an area which is in the main comprised of older houses, very, very old houses, some of the oldest houses in the city.

The honourable me~iher for St John's Centre and myself · represent the two most densely populated 1 oldest areas. I can show anyone areas that I challenge, not that there "should be a contes~ or anything about it,but I challenge anyone to show me conditions any worse. Another thing that is plaguing the people of my' district is the high cost of living in t:he province. That has to be tackled. 5162 JM - 12

April 24, 1973 Tape 1286 ~~ We have in my district many people who are living on (ixe.d pensions, pensioners from the· public service and the retail stores down on Water Street ,whl> by way did not historically and they certainly ,have not lf}lown signs yet of improving. Tqey treated their employf'es, generally speakin~,in a very go.ad fashion, but they are living on mi.nor, S111all, tiny,1ittle pensions,and the cost of living is a ver;y, very frightening thing to the111. The honourable the member for :Bell Island has brought in a resolution, I never had the chance of being in the House of Assembly with him for three years befo-re 5 ·, s ~ JM - 13

April 24, 1973 Tape ' No, 1287 NM - 1 MR. MARSHALL: I will be in for anotner two years when the honourable member for Bell Island goes to his great reward and I shall be here,but I have never in all that time had an opportunity and I will never see the opportunity again to really agree with him that there must be something done with respect to the cost of living in this province now,whether it is a select committee or other more stringent measures arc necessary we will see. /I final word, "Ir. Speaker, about something that occured in the District of St. John's East over the past few months that requires note.

In the Water Street area - MR. NEARY: Inaudible. MR. !1ARSHALL: The honourable member should not get completely I carried away, Mr. Speaker, I did not really mean all that I said but in any event, within the past three or four months, Atlantic Jlace on Water Street has caused a certain degree of controversy. It lies four square within my own district. I have heard petitions that have been presented and I know my honourable friend from St.

John's !,orth and I agree on most things but not necessarily on this I certainly appreciate his point of •,iew and of others but I feel that I see nothing wrong witn Atlantic Place in itself, However, with this one admonition, I do not know where the Canadian National Railway, and I said this when the petition was being brought in, I do not know where the f.anadian_National Railways gets off givinP, away the Hotel Newfoundland, p;iving away areas of land up on Water Street itself.

I think it is under term thirty-three of the Terms of l'nion that these physical properties amongst others were handed over to the Government of Canada. They were handed over. Now p,r;mtcd, we will not go into semantics, I will grant you that the Government of <::.:mada can do what it wishes with it but T do feel that 1t was handed over for the purpose of supplyin~ a service and when that service is not supplied from the Hotel Hewfoundland or from Water Street 1tself, I do not know where it gets off using it 5'/64

April 24, 1973 Tape No, 1287 NM - 2 MR, MARSHALL: in a trade to put up a ·hotel, It would he far better if they took the money's worth and sunk the money's worth-into that project,Atlantic Place,and gave these assets back to the people of Newfoundland to whom they really belong, since the trust under which they had them is no longer necessary.

It is to be borne in mind that Canadian National Railways has made very, very little,coMparatively Jpeaking, investment in this province since Confederation All of the other provinces in Canada, I think all of them or pretty well virtually all of them, joined for the purpose of p,etting a railway through the territories. We are in the funny position that we gave them a railway and they starting phasing it out. We gave them a hotel, which they are now phasing out and certainly they are putting up a bigger and better one and I am all for development, more power to it, but I do question the right.

I would rather see Canadian National Railways, instead of giving physical assets which they got under term thirty-three, or whatever term it was, of the 1erms of Union, I would much rather see them sink the money into this province in the same way as they have sunk large amounts of money into every province of Canada. So with these few words, Mr. Speaker, I end and I end again on the note I bep,an. I think the honourable Minister of Finance is to be complimented, presenting what h~s to be one of the best budget speeches that have ever been brought before this chamber.

I feel the time has come, as we said in our campaign, for the opposition to get up off their silly charade and stop turning around and distorinr, the facts, the Budget Speech itself,and indicating that the Minister of Finance is blackmailin,i; anyone.. All the ~inister of Finance is really doing in this Budget Speech is doinr, exactly what the honourable Don Jamieson urged 'us to do, urr,ed everyone to do, "Tell them as it is," he said, and that is how it is and that is how we have r.ot to live with it. It does not mean that one segment of the economy is r,oing to be treated any differently than anyone 5'{65

April 24, 1973 Tape No. 1287 NM - 3 MR. MARSHALL: else and to insinuate it is really a distortion. The teachers of this province, the nurses and the civil servants occupy some of the most valuable positions in this province itself and we are fully conizant of it and they will certainly ~et their fair share of the provincial resources, that is, Mr. Speaker, such of the provincial resources that remain after the decimation of our heritage over the past twenty-three years. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, for the last half hour or so we have listened to moaning and groaning from the other side of the House, Sir, almost enough to put one to sleep, hard to take, Mr. Speaker, hard to take. You would think, Sir, because they have so few speakers on the opposite side of the House, so few minister articulating government policy, you would think that when a minister stands over there he has no trouble at all to get fired up. The trouble is, Mr. Speaker, that they have nothing to get fired up over. They cannot get enthusiastic on the other side of the House because they have nothing to get enthusiastic about.

So the last half hour we have heard the usual moaning and groaning and whining from members of the government. Hard to take, ~r. Speaker, it is hard to take, nothing you can really get your teeth into, almost put one to sleep, Sir. This House will never be the same without our old Joey, never be the same. I remember, Sir, in this honourable House in the short time that I have been here, that the debate on the Speech from the Throne and the Budget Debate was lively, interesting, members would get fired up, good debating, good hard debating, informative, interesting, worthwhile, Sir. We do not have that anymore.

The House will never be the same without Joey, Mr. Speaker. I do not know what they would do over there only for the Minister of Finance,they woul<l be gone to pieces long ago. He is the only one over there who is holding them together. At least he can ~ake a good speech. I might not agree with him. I may not agree with his 5 '/ 6 U

April 24, 197_3 Tape No. 1287 NM - 4 MR. NEARY: material or presentation but at least he appears to be enthusiastic about what he says, whether he is sincere or not is a different matter. I may not approve of what he is saying, I may disagree with him, but you respect a man for his ability to debate in this House and that is what it is all about. That is why we are here, Sir, we are in this House to debate. MR. MARSHALL: Inaudible. MR. NEARY: No, I am not trying to get the minister over. That is a statement of fact, Sir, a statment of fact.

The only thing that I thought was amusing, I nearly burst out laughing when the Jast speaker just took his seat,when he was talking about how the previous administration have left thia · poor,old Tory Government in such bad straits - they have no money to spend, they are over there a bunch of paupers. He said, I think he used the term aomethini like this, "How can you have a Cadillac car with a Volkswagen engine?'' I nearly laughed out loud, Mr. Speaker. I know it is not pennissable to laugh out loud in this honourable Rouse.

"How can you have a Cadillac car," he said, "with a Volkswa2on engine?" Well what I would like to know, Sir, is how you can have an executive jet in this province. Does that have a Volkswagen engine? Almost $1 million, an executive aircraft; almost $1 million that is going to cost the taxpayers of this province. I suppose tne big problem down in cabinet, down on the eighth floor these days, is whether the stewardess aboard that aircraft should wear mini or maxi skirts or hot pants.

That is probably what they are so tormented down there on the ei~hth floor about, instead of tryin~ to run the affairs of th~s province. ~l mill!on practically for an aircraft in a province that does not have the population of "the City of Boston. I think the population of Boston is 600,000 people. Newfoundland has a little over 500,000. If we follow the same principles that that crowd over there are followin~, ~•r. Speaker, that honourable crowd, every city in 5'/67

April 24, 197.3 Tape No. 1287 NM - 5 MR. NEARY: North /\merica with a population of over 500,000 people would have their own aircraft, 500,000 innoce~t souls would have their own aircraft. Then the minister who just spoke, ·enunciating government philosophy and government policy,says that you cannot have a Cadillac car with a Volkswagon engine, inferring of course that they did not have any money over there to spend in the best interest of the people of this province,but they have it to spend on an aircraft, almost $1 million. Mr.

Speaker, what about all the high-paid expensive help that they have in the Premier's Office alone? Listen to this, Mr. Speaker, in the Premier's Office alone, which cost I think three times more now that it cost wnen former Premier Smallwood was down there, they want to draw a reference to the previous Liberal Administration, they want to make comparisons, compare the cost of the Premier's office to what it used to be. The cost of nmning the Premier's office now is up arotmd $354,~00 - no, more than that, including Executive Council and Treasury Board, Sir, it is probably well over $1.5 million.

Here · are some of the salaries down in the Premier's Office: larliamentary assistant, I presume that is one of the bouncers that the Premier has down there on the floor, either the member for Green Bay or the member for Trinity North, one of the bouncers, parliamentary assiatant - $10,000, over and above what they are paid for being members · of the House of Assembly.

Four personal assistants - $42,800 - $10,~00 a piece: one press secretary - $16,000; one special assistant - $10,000; one private secretary to the Premier - $8,900; well we will allow him a private secretary,he needs that~ one director of administration - $12,131, and all these special assistants, executive as~istants, flunkies, what have you, Sir, that are down there running around, they all have to ·have a secretary, so secretary to executive assistant - $7,586; all unnecessary, ~fr . Speaker. 5'/6b

April 24, 1973 Tape No • 128 7 NM - 6 MR. NEARY: The former Premier could do without it. He managed to get along without this luxury that we cannot afford in this province. One secretary to parliamentary assistant - $6,465~ she is not worth as much. Secretaries to parliamentary_assista~ts are not worth ar much as secretaries to executive assistant. She only P,cts $6,465. Then we have secretary to special assistant - $5,017, and all kinds of clerks, stenographers, clerk typists, male messenger,clerk II; extra assistants - $10,QOO, and then we have, Mr.

S~eaker, a branch of the Premier's Office, a division of the Premier's Office called Intergovernmental Affairs Division. whatever that is all about, Sir, that is going to cost the taxpayers of this province, $166,600. On top of t,at, Sir, you have I think it is eighteen cabinet ministers now, eighteen and a-half - they are on the hitch for a 'finister of Fisheries. This was the crowd that were going to have twelve or thirteen cabinet ministers to carry on the work of this province. In this Interr,overnmental Affairs Division, one special adviser to the Premier, $38,662; must be his pet.

This must be the Premier's pet, '.·1r. Speaker, $38,662. Can this poor,little province afford that kind of a luxury? One special co-ordinator,interr,overn~ental programmes, $29,200; one provincial co-ordinator,work programmes, $15,575; one engineer JI, $Jn,500; one economist IT, $10,000. lfuat salaries, Sir, what salaries£ 'Ir. Speaker, it is unbelievable!

Just through this hook of salary estimates that was distributed hy the Minister of Finance, Sir, and une would hardly believe what is in front of one's eyes. ''r. ::utbecm - $20, ')f)() a year, that is the price the p,overnment are paying this year for brothers-in-law of premiers J20,000 a year. Assistant deputy ministers, all over the place, some of them have 'not even been appointed yet - $16,500. Government information servicc:s, ~-fr. Speaker, useless te> this province, director of p.overnment infonnation services - $16,000: one 5 '/ 6 !i

April 24, 1973 Tape No. 1287 N'1 - 7 )-!R. NEARY: press information officer - $10,000; one research officer - $9,000; a variety of clerk-typists, communication clerks ~nd a copy writer - ~7,000, and this was the crowd we heard talking about the cost of ''The Newfoundland Bulle tin." "The Newfoundland Bulletin, " was only in the shade compared to this, only in the shade, Sir. Then the minister that just took his seat - MR . SPEAKER: I wonder would the member take his seat for just two or three moments,please.

It has just been brou~ht to my attention and they have just arrived in the galleries, some members of the Thunder Bay senior hockey team who are the champions of Northern Ontario. They are presently playing the St. John's Caps here in the City,in the quarter finals of the Allen Cup. On behalf of all members of the ~onourable House of Assembly I would like to welcome you not only to the ~alleries but to the province and trust that your visit here is most interestin~ and that your stay is most enjoyable. '-fR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I am happy to see the members of the Thunder Bay hockey team in the gallery today hut they have not seen anything down in ttat stadium, Sir, to what goes on in this honourable House. They have not seen a thing, only in the shade. Thank God Bell Island has a representative nown there on the Capa, Sir, in the person of Bern Fitzpatrick. w~o was an opponent of mine,by the way. He opposed me in the last two provincial general elections. He is captain of the team and we are proud of him over there, Sir.

He makes a good hockey player but a poor politician and I sup,gested to him at the time that he stick to hockey. lie is playing a r.ood ~ame. I do not know what the results are going to be~ I would like to see the r.aps win myself,but I am glad to see the members of the hockey team. We are like two hockey teams in this honourable House. We square off with one another. You know, Mr.

Speaker, the whole trouble with this session of the House,that members are so jumpy and edgy and irritable and hard to get along with and difficult, the whole trouble is, Sir, in my opinion, that we are passing throu~h a transitional 5 ·11 G

April 24 ,. 1973 Tape No. 1287 NM - .8 MR. NEARY: stage in this House, that when we came in here, after the ~rch election, that crowd over there - AN HON. MEMBER: Honourable crowd. MR. NEARY: Honourable crowd had not ROVerned this province for twenty­ three years. Sir, they had not been used to governing the province. There they were over there, they were lost for several months, they thouP,ht they were still in opposition. They were contradicting one another, They were bickerinP, and fighting back and forth and here we were over here, Sir, twenty-three years in power.

Sir, I hope the Caps can win a trophy for twenty-three years,but we were twenty-three years in power, Sir, and when we stepped out on the floor of this House, the same as the two hockey teams down there in the stadium stepped out, the first thing you do, your coach will tell you now: "Be a little cautious! Watch cut for them! They are sly and sne~ky and low, watch them! Find out where their weak points are, whe_re they are vulnerable." He find what 1111.nistc>rs are good at this and what ministers are poor at this and then we zero in on their weak spots and we try to score some points.

That is what we have been trying to do, Sir, But it took us a little while to get our legs tmderneath us and I think now in the last couple or three weeks we have settled down because now we have got each other's measure and that crowd over there and this crowd over here have discovered that we are not afraid of them and they are not afraid of us and we have had some pretty good debate in this House in the last few weeks, Sir. I am not afraid of the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Finance is not afraid of me. What I like, Sir, what I like is hard-nose debate.

It is not if you win but how you play the game. ForP,et the personalities and the insults and the inuendoes, get down to hard nose debatinP, and when it is all over, Sir, no personal animosity. We step out in the centre of the floor, the same as the boys down in the stadium will do,the day after tomorrow t think it is, 5'J71

April 24, 1973 Tape No. 1287 NM - 9 MR. NEARY: step out in the middle of the floor, say, "Boys you fought a hard game, I know you wanted to win and I know you are disappointed, you fought a good game, you fought it clean," you then shake hands and :you say, "Good luck to you, I will see you again this time next year." That is the way this honourable House should be, Sir, and we can learn a lot from what is going on tn the stadium in the last few days.

Maybe we could learn a lot, I think they had a record number of penalties last night, however, be that as it may, the same thing happens in this House, Sir, the same thing hafpens, members lose their cool once in a while, they lose their temper and the only thing is that we do not have any penalties. You cannot put a member of the House in the penalty box, sometimes I wish you could, Mr. Speaker.

However, Sir, getting back to the debate, so the minister talks about driving a Cadillac car with a Volkswagon engine, while at the same time they are out buying executive aircraft to jet the ministers around the province and probably down in the Caribbean.

I understand, Sir, this aircraft has long-range flying capacity, probably see the ~inisters going off to the Carribbean as soon as they can get out of the House, get her closed up, cannot wait to get out and then you have all these expensive party hangers-on - executive assistants, special assistants and what have you,and then the minister tells us that they have to carefully watch the money that is beinr, expended. They have fourteen executive.assistants, Sir, I do not know what the salary is 1 what is the salary now for an executive assistant this year? $12,01)() - it lias p,one up ~2,000.

Last year it was $10,000. They have fourteen of those now, Sir, and it is climbing all the time. We cannot keep up to them at all, Sir. Now, Mr. Speaker, the honourable member also raised the matter of people livinp: on fixed incomes. Well, Sir, befo _re I get into the main thrust of my speech, I want to read into the record of this House a letter that I received tod~y from a gentleman in Lethhridr,e, Newfoundland, who is also concerned about the same thing. I will read the letter, Mr. Speaker, and if necessary I will table it, but I want to get this into the re.cord 5'/72

April 24, 1973 Tape No. 1287 NM - 10 MR, NEARY: because it is most important. I think that we have forgotten about people living on fixed income. We have forgotten in the Budget· Speech and the budget that the minister brought ~own, we forgot about people on long and short term social assistance. We forgot about people on Workmen's Compensation. They did something for people living on pensions.

But, Sir, it is equally important to do somethinP, for ~he 95,000 people in this province who are strup.glin~ along on long and short term social assistance and there is a great need to do somethinp, for the people who are living on Workmen's Compensation. I think,somehow or other, the government is going to have to think about linking the payment to the cost cf living so that as the cost of living increases the amount of the assistance would P,O up automatically. Here is what this gentleman from Lethbridge says, Mr.

Speaker, he says, "I was employed with the former Newfoundland Railway Union from 1936 to 1949 and after 1949 was an employee of Canadian National Railways. In 1969 I was compelled to retire on early disability pension. My pension with Canadian National is pretty well a fixed amount having received about ~4.50 incre~se in the past four years to cover the rising cost of living expenses. "The thirteen years that I worked with the Newfoundland Railway from 193/'i to 1949 I have not received _ any increase to help toward the increased co/it of living from the Newfoundland Government." Listen to this, ~r.

Speaker, ''Mr. Crosbie stated in the Budget Speech that he was going to review our case from time to time. I am wonderin~ how Mr. Crosbie expects one to feed a family with the high cost of living by stating that he would be reviewing the matter of pension increases for railroad workers who transferred to Canadian National from time to time. ''I feel that we should have been iziven increases in our Newfoundland Railway pensions the same time as thP rest of the government 5·;73

April 24, 1973 Tape No. 1287 'NM - 11 ~- NCARY: civil servants. I am one of hundreds who were forced to take early retirement because of disability, automation, abolition of passen~er trains and the various departments related to passenger trains. "As pensioners we are not active members of our particular unions an~ as such we do not seem to have anyone interested in our case to look in for us at the local iovernment levels.

The majority of us who have had to take disability retirement and are not yet sixty-five years old, have to live on a very, very small pension and I am at a loss to understand why our government did not see fit to increase our Newfoundland pension along with the rest of the civil servants.

"I would appreciate it very much if you could see your way clear to raise this matter soreetime at your convenience in a sitting of the House and I am sure that .you would by so doing, receive the than~s of numerous railroad pensioners in this province. ''With best re,ards " I will not mention the gentleman's name who sent me that, but, Sir, there is a very sad story, very sad indeed. These people are forced to live on a very, very small, very, very mea~re monthly stipend, Sir, and I think that something should be done about it and I commend this to the ~inister of Finance.

Now, Sir, in the past two or three weeks in this honourahle House, most of the time has been taken up by item analysis of the estimates for the fiscal year 1973-1974. Ordinarily, Mr. Speaker, this is an opportunity for members on both sides of the House to go through the estimates with a fine tooth comb, ask questions of the ministers on the spendir.g of their departments under the various subheads and generally speaking, Mr.

Speaker, to get out to the people of this province as much information as possible,in cross-examininr, ministers and so forth and askinp, questions but above all, Sir, above all this,as important as . this is, I think it is the duty and the 5'/74

April 24, 1973 Tape No. 1287 NM - 12 MR. NEARY: responsibility of each memher of this honourah1e House, especially those of us who sit over here opposition, Sir, to make sure, Mr. Speaker, that the taxpayers dollar is being spent in the public interest and that it is being spent in a way where it will do the most good for the most people of this province. Now, ~~r.

Speaker, to complete this part of the business of the House of Assembly, members traditionally are given plenty of time to study the estimates and to do whatever homework is required to make intelligent and rational observations and decisions as we go through the estimates item by item. However, '-"r. Speaker, this year for some unexplainable reaso1;, the government have been desperately trying to stampede the estimates through the House by forcing members to meet long hours, sometimes, ~r. Speaker, all night.

Your Honour was over in England observing what was going on in the House of Commons, the mother of Parliament and I would lil'.e to welcome Your Honour back. When Your Honour was observing what was ~oinP, on over there, here we were burning the midnight oil over here, Sir, meeting all night as if we had a deadline to meet. We had no deadline. The government had two months interim supply. The government could have carried on, Sir, until the end of 'fay,no problem. But for some unexplainable reason, !·!r.

Speaker, they wanted to stampede, railroad the estimates through this honourable Rouse and they forced members to sit night and day and sometimes all night, Sir, hoping I suppose, Mr. Speaker, although they did not say this, I assume that they hoped in this l!ouse, where the opposition is outnumbered four to one, that by forcing these long sessions on us that we might be drained of our strenr,th and energy throuP,h exertion and hopefully, Mr.

Speaker, they were hopeful that we would succumb to their sadistic handling of an opposition that was only tryinP, to do an effective job for the people of this province, Sir. Mr. Speaker, by the number of mrmhers that are in this honourahle House these days, Sir, I would like to know what the hurry was. Sir, I think it is about tin,e we had a quorum called and try .to get them out 5'/75

April 24, 1973 Tap'e No. 1287 m1 - 13 MR. NEARY: of the woodwork, iet them out from under the rocks and get them back in the House, two, four, six, eiP,ht, There are eight over there now. Mr. Speaker, I would like to have the House counted. 5'/76

April 24, 1973, Tape 1288, Pagel -- apb I-'R. SPEAKER: There is a quorum. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the attendance in this session of the House has been the worst I have ever seen, the worst on record, Sir. That is how interested they are in the affairs of this province. So they thought, Sir, they thought they had us on the ropes. AN HON. !-'EMBER: How many members do they have gone south? MR. NEARY: We do not have anybody gone south. How many members are gone south from that side of the House? The member for St.

John's South is over gallivanting around Europe, the Minister of Social Services is gone off on a conference and then has reservations booked for Florida, the honourable Premier is booked up for the warm climate. How many more are away at this time? They should be here in this honourable House, Sir 0 I will deal with that in a few minutes, the obligation and the responsibility they have to this House, Sir. Mr. Speaker, my own impression of these marathon sittings and why the govermnent forced them unnecessarily upon us, is to make up for their own shortcomings and their own inadequacies. This government, Mr.

Speaker, in fifteen months have made more blunders and more boo-boos than the previous Liberal Administration in twenty-three years. They have set a number of all-time records, Sir, for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. The Minister of Finance and his colleagues have managed to push our provincial debt to an all-time high after a lot of talk that we heard prior to the two provincial general elections.

In leading up to these elections, all the talk that we had about the running of this province efficiently with a cabinet of twelve or fourteen members, They have set a new record with eighteen members in their cabinet. They have created, as I said a few moments ago, an unprecedented number of executive assistantR, special assistantR, information officers etc., jobs, Hr. Speaker, for party supporters. Mr. Speaker, if our Tory Covernment continues to p,o after new record like the ones I .1ust mentioned, then this- should be an interesting 5'/77

April 24, 1973, Tape 1288, PaP,e 2 -- apb year· indeed. I am ju~t~ondering out loud, Mr. Speaker, how long more the poor old taxpayers of this province will put up with this nonsense and this extravagance and waste. The reason for these marathon sittings, these all-night sittings was that the government were anxious to get the House closed. They obviously, Mr. Speaker, cannot stand criticism. They refused to listen to constructive suggestions and ideas! Mtnisters have shown themselves to be incompetent and in a little over a year, Mr.

Speaker, the Tory Administration have become as arrogant as anything we have seen in the past or will see again in the future. Mr. Speaker, this government have a built-in self-destruction mechanism and this is why and I honestly believe this to be so, this is why they have adopted a atrategy of trying to ram things through this honourable House in a hurry and get it closed before they make complete fools of themselves. They are obviously, Mr. Speaker, afraid of the House. They are losing sleep at night trying to figure out ways and means to avoid the House altogether.

They would just as soon get rid of it, they would just as soon do without it, Sir. These are the real reasons behind all these night sittings and the rush to get it over with in a hurry. But, Mr.

Speaker, members on the government side of the House have discovered over the past two or three weeks that the people of this province are strongly opposed to this abuse of their large majority in this House of Assembly and are absolutely disgusted at the way the government have atte~pted to punish and torture members of the opposition who are merely trying to see that the people of this province are provided with good government. That is the name of the garne. Sir, that is why we are here, that is why we criticize.

We are tryin~ to make sure that that crowd over there, that honourahle crowd, as mu~h as we hate to admit this, Sir, but what we are really trying to do is to see that they provide good government for the people of this province. That is looking at it in an objectionable manner and in a positive way. The whole trouble, Mr. Speaker, is that this government have become so arrogant they are too foolish to pay attention to what is being said in this honourable 517b

April 24, 1973, Tape 1288, Page 3 - apb House or outside of this honourable House. The11, Mr. Speaker, I would say that that is their problem. The voters of this province will deal with them and elect an alternative when the opportunity is given to them. In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, and I am not going to provide a lecture to members on their duties, responsibilities and obligations to this House, but in the meant:f.me, members must realize that they were elected to the House of Assembly by the people of this province to do a job and their first duty is to this honourable House.

How many quor1nn calls have we had in this session? How many members are absent from the House this afternoon? There are eleven on the other side and when the Minister without Portfolio was speaking I saw it go down to eight, down to eight, Sir, and the minister was up stating, annunciating, articulating government policy and trying to defend the poor old Minister of Finance and the administration. You cannot keep them in their seats, Sir. The people elected them to this honourable House and their first duty is to this House.

Nothing else, nothing else I would venture to say,and I may have some debate on this, I may be contradicted. ~othing, not even your family comes before this honourable House. ~aybe religion, you might put religion in the same category but, Mr. Speaker, nothing, but nothing, apart from your religion,comes before the House of Assembly. As a matter of fact, you cannot be Premier of this Province unless you are first elected to the House of Assembly.

As the honourable ¥inister of Finance knows, because when he was first appointed to the cabinet he was not an elected member of this House,and the Minister of Finance knows this better than any other member on the government side, that when a person is appointed to the cabinet there is a time limit, Sir, on how lon~ he can serve as a cabinet minister before offerinp, himself to the electorate for a seit in this honourable House. How long is it, Mr. Chairman? Six months? 5 '/ 7!,

April 24 1 1973, Tape 1288, Pa~e 4 -- apb HR. ROBF.RTS: It is a constitutional convention. At the earliest poaaihlc time. MR. NEARY: At the earliest pos~lh:e time. So the Le~der of the Opposition who is an expert on constitutional matters in this province tells me,and he is. He is an expert on it. He is the best in this House. So, Mr. Speaker, nothing comes before the House of Assembly.

The point I am trying to make here is this, that the members of this House should put the business of the House before anything else especially before their own personal business or before restructuring themselves in the lofty atmosphere of skyscrapers in ~ontreal, London, Paris, Israel, New York, Africa and Moscow - Malawi; the Minister of Social Services in Malawi. They cannot take all these trips, Sir, they cannot go off to try to solve the problems of Malawi or go up to the delights of Paris or Montreal -they cannot do that unless they are a member of this House.

Their first obligation is to this honourable House,otherwise, they would not be ministers. I would submit, Mr. Speaker., that the reason you are not getting members in the House or in Confederation Building is for fear that they might be caught in the House of Assembly or in their offices by citizens of the province seeking face-to-face meetings with their members. This is why they do not like Confederation Buildin~, they are allergic to the House of Assembly, they are allergic to Confederation Building.

Their poor old constituents and the poor people of this province cannot get through to them,they are on the fly all the time, they are members of the jet set. Mr. Speaker, immaterial of what the honourable crowd on the other side of the House do or think, we are more determined on this side of the House and they can have all the night sittings, all the marathon sittings and the Minister without Portfolio can get up and do all the bellyaching he wants about obstruction~which nobody believes anyway.

He can do all that, Sir, hut we are more detennined than ever on this side of the House to do the job for which we were elected to do in this honourable House. 5 '/ 8(;

April l4, l~/J, ~ape!~~~. Yage ~ - apo Mr. Speaker, I am going to·make a suggestion to members like my honourable friend from Harbour Grace,who seems to be bored with it all,·or the member for Placentia East~who spends little time in the House,and all the other members who are absentee members.

I am going ·to suggest to these members, Sir, that if there are those among us who are not willing to live up to the expectations and obligations that have been placed upon us and the trust that has been given us by the people of this province, if they are not prepared to live up to this, then they can leave anytime they want to. They are free to leave. They can go now, Mr. Speaker, and I am sure the people of this province could not care less. We all came into this House voluntarily. Nobody can force a member to sit in this House, especially against his own will.

We all came in here voluntarily, Sir,·nobody put a knife o~ a gun to our backs and said; "You have to be a member of the House of Assembly." lt is a voluntary thing. I think we should remember this before we start lashing out and complaining about a two or a three months session of this honourable House. That is what we are complaining about, Mr. Speaker, two or three months. I will deal with that shortly because I did a little research this morning and I want to tell honourable members of this House and anybody else who is listening to me, that it is interesting to note, Mr.

Speaker, that ao far this session we have met a total of forty­ eight days, (48) forty-eight days from January 31 up to and including today's sitting of the House. Mr. Speaker, that is just about e month and a-half out of the whole year. One month and a-half and already,as I said a few moments ago, government members are becoming grumpy, edgy, irritable, showing signs of becoming weary, they are bushed, they just cannot take it and they are showing their true colours of being quitters and sissys about all this, one month and a-half after ~he House opened.

The Minister without Portfolio showed us this this afternoon. He could not get wild nor enthusiastic when he was trying to defend the government. The old fire is gone, the shiny edges are worn off now. Out of this forty-ei~ht days we spent twelve days debRtin~ 5 '/81

April 24, 1973, Tape 1288, Page 6,- apb record expenditures by various government departments .. 'Ihe government departments have been increased by four this year,have they not? Are there four n~ departments? AN HON. ~ER: We have lost track. MR. NEARY: We have lost track but I think it is four new departments, which would make it a little longer, Mr. Speaker. That is logical. If you have more government departments, more spending,it is going to take' a little longer. We are debating record expenditures, Sir, by the various departll\ents of government. Do you know how much time we have spent on that so far, Mr.

Speaker? Approximately eighty hours. Eighty hours,(80)hours. I think, probably I am being a little generous there. I probably have two or three more hours included there than I should have. It is very difficult to get the precise number of hours but the outside of eighty hours we spent passing $600 million in this honourable House. MR. ROBERTS: $7.5 million an hour. MR. NEARY: How much? ?-4R. ROBERTS: $7.5 million an hour. MR. NEARY: $7.5 million an hour. $7.5 million an hour, Sir, and all we heard from government members were complaints.

They were whining, moaning and they were charging the oppo~ition with obstruction. As I said in the beginning, Mr. Speaker, with the ratio in this House of four government members to every one opposition member, how can they justify their petty, childish charges of obstruction? It is the government who sets the tone and the mood of this honourable House. They call the order of business and generally speaking, Mr. Speaker, whether or not we get our work done in this House in a smooth,efficient ffljnner, depends upon how well the government organize the business of the House.

I did not make that up, Sir,. that is a fact, that is tradition. This session, Sir, and this is part of our problem, apart from the fact that the government· is leaderless in the House, they have nobody over there with a firm hand on the tiller. The Premier is the biggest culprit of all when it comes to absenteeism. We have an absentee Premier and they have nobody to show them leadership, Sir. 5'/8i,;

April 24, 1973, Tape 1288, Page 7 -- apb That i11 why I said the other night whf'n I mrn on teievi ion that I thought the leadership of the Tory Aclministration ,-,as v.r1tvf t:it1nr, towards the Minister of Finance. He is getting it by default because he is the only one that is making a showing over there and holding that honourable crowd together. I do not agree with everything the Minister of Finance says but that is true to anybody who has visited this honourable House this session.

They will tell you the same thing but for the poor old ~inister of Finance, if his judgement were not so bad, he could very easily have been Premier of this Province now. If he had not made the tragic error he could . have been the Liberal Premier of this Province. MR. ROBERTS: He will live to regret that. MR. NEARY: My colleague reminds me that the minister will live to regret it and I have no doubt about that. I have no doubt about that, Sir. iut they failed, they have failed miserably, Mr.

Speaker, in this session of the House to prepare the work of the House and they have been unable to discipline themselves in the House. So, Sir, what we have before us, on the other side, is an administration that has become a complete shambles in less than a year and a-half in office. Mr. Speaker, up to and including today's Order Paper, a total of three hundred and fifty-seven questions have been asked by _the Official Opposition in this House (and I was reminded,my friend from Labrador South is not here but I was reminded that there are more opposition than sit in this row of seats and that row there.

We are known as the Official Opposition, also, the effective opposition.) of the government and so far, Sir, and this is again very interesting, so far, excluding the answers to todays questions, I think there were five answers today or half a dozen, So far, Mr. Speaker, only one hundred and ninety-one of these questions have been answered. As I understnad it, with only about another week or ten days left in this session,it is doubtful whether they will ever be answered and these are some of the most controversial questions, Si~.

Minister have come into the House pretending that they are goint to give us all the infot"l'lation we asked for but all they are doing is answering

April 24, 1973, Tape 1288, Pa~e 8 -- apb the simple, harmless questions. They have not given us answers to any of the controversial questions. We have only a week or ten days left, Sir, an~ over forty per cent of the questions on the Order Paper, so far, have gone unanswered. This is the government, Mr. Speaker, that had so much chaw prior to the last two provincial elections about answering questions and providing information for our people.

Members might be interested to note, Sir, and perhaps the Clerk could correct me on this but my understanding is that there are another two or three hundred questions being processed in the Clerk's office for the Order Paper. That is not a criticism of the staff of the House, Sir, because maybe the questions were late coming in. What I am concerned about, Mr.

Speaker, is that forty per-cent or one hundred and n~nety:'ne _questions still on the Order Paper not answered, I am reminded, Sir, that we also asked the Minister of Highways for a list of the Highway's work to be done in this province in the twelve months ahead and the minister would not table the list. We also asked the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing for a list of water and sewer projects and the minister refused to give us the information. This is the government, Sir, that had so much chew about answering questions and providing information for the people of this province. Mr.

Speaker, in my opinion the 1973 provincial budget will go down in history as the budget which spent more taxpayers' money than ever before and benefited fewer people. For a government that on the campaign trail promised a brave new world of magnificent planning, sound development of grass roots industry, white knigh~on steed in government, and an end to patronage, this budget, Sir, reflects a complete change from the (as they say in the business world) selling promise to the service delivery.

Giant plwi:is and medium sized plums are handed out to party supporters, with not even dried p~nes for the rank and file,non­ politically oriented, ordinary cit_izens. Not even a dried prune for those people. Indeed, ~r. Speaker, if it had not been for a $24 million bonanza from Ottawa, the rank and file, the non-politically oriented, 5184

April 24, 1973, Tape 1288, Page 9 -- apb the ordinary citizens that I referred to, Sir, would have had to dig deep into their pockets to pay the hug~ amounts required for luxuries ' like -squads ~f administrative, parliamentary and executive assistants, contractual obligations slushed out to the Premier's special pet, his own special assistant, the Provincial Air Force expansion funds, funds for providing new and more enjoyable fun and games for those distinguished guests who will be permitted to bask on the decks of out provincial navy and make use of Francisco'g Hideway on the Gander River.

AN HON. ~ER: Great river. MR. NEARY: It is a great river. Great, strange things going on down there too. We see also, Sir, the strange phenomenon of surrendering the affairs of this province into the hands of Memorial University's theorists who have found a new way, Mr. Speaker, to siphon off money from the public treasury for their own personal gains. If honourable members do not think that that is true.I have a little surprise for them. A little surprise! Here is an Executive Council document,dated March 26, 1973, addressed to all deputy ministers in the government.

Listen to this, Sir, and I will table the document if the honourable Speaker and the members want me to. All the deputy ministers have it, all the ministers have it and I have it. It is too bad t~~ premier is not here, he would say; "Where did you get it?" Well, Sir, I am like the news media in that regard, I refuse to divulge my source of information, nothing would drag it out of me. Listen to this,Mr.

Speaker, just to verify what I said about the government, that strange phenomenon, the government surrendering the affairs of this province into the hands of the academics over at Memorial University. ''To all deputy m1nisters: An effort is now being made to increase and formalize the li~kn~es between our p.overnment and Memorial University in the field of applied research. Thls movement towards increased co-operation is spearhea~ed at the Univeristy by vice-president M.O.~or~an and in government with the Premier's approv~l by the Plannin~ and Priorities Committee Secretariat. 5'/85

April 24, 1973. Tap• 1288. rnR~ 10 -- nph "The need for cl or•~• r ·.i(l rk inp; relAt ions between ROVernmen t and the University is clear. All too often our goverIDT1ent purchases research and consulting advice from private firms without even considering the availability of talent to provide this service at Memorial.

On other occasions the University is contacted but the inquiry is not directed to the most appropriate person. ln some cases this latter action causes some considerable embarrassment and time scheduling difficulty for the University. •rt has now been agreed between the university and government that in future Dr. N.Gogan will act as the focal point for the handling of inquiries from government officials wishing to know the most appropriate personnel to contact at Memorial with regard to participation in particular research projects. Dr.

Gogan is executive assistant to vice-president Morgan and acts as secretary to the Univeristy's Senate Committee on Research and Dr. Gogan can be reached at the number. It has been likewise agreed that I shall act as information officer on behalf of the government to direct inquiries concerning government's interest in the funding of academic research having immediate, practical application. I shall also attempt to keep the relevant policy co11111ittees of cabinet ministers and deputy ministers informed of existing research studies and new study proposals which might be of interest.

"It should be clearly understood that this arrangement is not intended to inhibit direct contact between senior line department staff and their colleagues at the university. However, in future, specific requests for ~taff assistance or proposals to conduct research which might involve the use of university staff should be channelled in the first instance to Dr. r.ogan or the Dean of the Relevant Faculty Institute. Government officials are encouraged to indicate on such occasions if they have a particular person in mind, also who they teel might be suitable to undertake the assignment.

However, under no circumstances should they commence Rny form of negotiRtions with university perscnnel prior to approachin~ Dr. Gogan the Relevant Dean.of the University. "I should add that I would appreciate it very much if you 5'/86

April 24, 1973, Tape 1288, Page 11 -- apb could keep me informed when such negotiations with the ,,niversity are in progress. I do not wish you to deal with th~ university through my office although I will gladly provide any assistance that I can. If you would send me a carbon copy of any correspondence that you have with Dr. Gogan, Dean of Research Institute Directors, it would help me :immeasurably in keeping up to date on the new linkage efforts." They got their foot in the door of the Premier's office, Sir, now they are r,etting ready to take her over. They are getting ready to take her over.

They had to set up down there a director, a Dean of Research Institute Director, to be able to cope with all the requests that are coming from the government for help. Deputy minister and senior officials of government no longer run the show, Sir, ministers no longer run the show, it is being run from over there on the Prince Philip Drive by a bunch of academics from Memorial University who could not run their own affairs. It took a student strike over their to straighten half of them out,and that is the crowd we have running this province at the present time. They found a way.

They are like the lawyers, Sir, they found, they hit the jackpot, they found a new way . to siphon off money from the public treasury for their own personal gains. I could go on and on and on. There are dozens and dozens of other little non-essential items that are designed only, Mr. Speaker, to meet the psychological, physiological, social and ego needs of the party in power and their friends. Mr. Speaker, to 5187

:• April 24, 1973 Tape 1289 hear the way this povernment talks about restructuring you would thi-qk, Sir, it ~as some kind of a vir.tuous word that they were using. The realigning of government departments, Mr. Speaker, .only means that we have a government now which is in evidence by this letter I just read, a government structured on text book patterns and that has shown itself, Sir, in the past fifteen or sixteen months to be unable to manage the affairs of this province.

The major problems, Mr, Speaker, facing our people are being neglected and the whole situation seems to be treated as a joke by the existing administration. For instance, Mr. Speaker, one of the major problems facing our people today is unemploym~nt. In another few weeks, Sir, graduates from the Colleges of Trades and Technology and the Fisheries Coller,e will be entering the labour market. Students from the vocational training schools will be joining university students and mature, older students from high schools will be joinin~ them in their search for jobs in this province.

Sir, we are unable at the moment to take care of the cronic unemployed. We are unable to take care of those who have been unemployed for long periods of time. So I would say, Mr. Speaker, that the outlook for those students is dismal indeed. There are no new government projects to create jobs, Mr. Speaker. No new pro.1ects to take the place for instance of that great hydro development that has been going on for the past five or six or seven years at Churchill Falls. Construction of the linerboard mill in Stephenville has ended.

If they ever get back to work JM - 1 down at Come by Chance, another couple or three months and constructior on that r,iant project will end. So all the projects started by the Liberal Administration, Sir, that has been the old whipping boy in this session of the House, all the Liberal projects are now grinding to a halt, the projects that were started by the Llberals when they were in power,and there are no new projects, 5'l8b

April 24, 1973 Tape 1289 Mr. Speaker, to take their place. So I would say these graduates, these students th~t will come out of the vocational schools, the university, the Colleges of Trades and Fisheries full of idealism, full of enthusiasm are goinp, to be awfully disillusioned, Sir, in the weeks and months ahead. We heard in the last few months the Premier and we heard the Minister of Finance state publicly that our economy is stronger than at any time in our history. That was the Christmas present we were given by the Minister of Finance. What a difference, Mr.

Speaker, a few months made in that minister's thinking. About a year and a-half ago or two years ago, Sir, they were lashing out at the Liberal Administration because of growing unemployment in Newfoundland,despite the fact, Mr. Speaker, that the then government, the Liberal Government, the previous administration at that time pointed out that our province had hit a new record for numbers employed and the unemployment figures were a result of the increase in the numbers of young people coming of employable age. This is the very same argument the Minister of Finance threw back at uR.

Criticized us for making a statement like that when we were in power, Sir, and as soon as they become the government they tell us our economy was never stronger and this is the reason for high unemployment. Well, Sir, if that is the reason now that has been the same reason for twenty-three years.

Right now, Sir, the great critic of the Tory Administration, the Minister of Finance,is defending this past twelve months highest ever figures for unemployment on the grounds of the entry of newcomers to the workforce. llonournble members mir,ht have heard me this last week or so in the House talkinµ about how the honourable minister ca~ twist and turn fi~ures,and there is an example, Sir: When he was campaigninp,, ~r. Speaker, we were criticized for the high unemployrrent but as soon as they formed the government they tried to defen<l their own position over the last year and a-half 5 ·;s~ JM - 2

April 24, 1973 Tape 1289 or two years on thr ~rounds that the -reason we have high unemployment in Newfoundland at the present time is because of the newcomers entering the ·workforce, The truth of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that our unemployment rate in this province would be much higher at the .J'M - 3 present time had Ottawa not bailed us out through their local initiative projects nnd trainin~,on-the-job prop.rammes. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, these projects and training progrananes are of a limited duration and my big complaint with these projects is that they are not year-round.

I have been advocating that in this House for years, Sir. They should be year-round but they are going to come to an end the end of May and some may be extended on into September. What I am focusing attention on, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that the provincial government has done nothing towards fulfilling their election promises of creating jobs for our people. I will make in this honourable House a forecast right here now~and I hope I am proven wrong, Mr.

Speaker, as this is one time when I would like for the government to prove that I am wrong, I predict, Sir, that we are headed for one of the worst summers on record for unemployment in this province. It.is going to be a sad, sad situation, Sir. Mr. Speaker, another one of the present administration's sins of omission is their obvious lack of concern for the ever increasing high cost of living in this province. Members of this honourable House, Sir, will remember on numerous occasions the vicious criticism of the Tories when they were in opposition about the cost of living in this province.

Since my honourable friends on the government side of the !louse, Sir, took over the p.overnment and became the administration in March. 1972. ~asoline in this province has increased substantially in price, stove oil and furnace oil t~at is so necessary with the kind of climate we have in this province, Sir, with the frir.id, cold, damp weather 519t

April 24, 1973 Tape 1289 that we have, -the price of stove oil and furnace oil has gone up twice since these honourable gentlemen formed the government and the consUD1er price index as published by Statistics Canada has . just revealed, Mr. Speaker, that Newfoundland has been subjected to the highest increase in the cost of living in Canada, Mr. Speaker, is it any wonder that people right across this province are so fed up with politics and politicans and the House of Assembly?

Is it any wonder they are fed up, Sir, when they are just struggling, fighting, battling for survival, desperately trying to hang on and keep a bit of grub on the table? Can you blame them for being considerably disappointed, Sir, when they learn that more time was spent in this session of the House debating the purchase of an executive jet, an executive aircraft for ministers to fly around the province in and more time was spent on whether or not the Premier's brother-in-law is worth $20,000 a year or whether poor old Newfoundland can afford a director of transportation at the cost of $26,000 a year?

More time was spent on these items, Sir, than was devoted to the hip,h cost of living. Honourable members on the other side, Sir, spent considerable time on this. Not a word, not a sound except from this side of the House dealt with the cost of living and the impact that it is having on the average Newfoundlander. Mr. Speaker, bread and butter issues seem to be a thing of the past for members of the P,overnment. They are more interested in collecting briefs and appointing committees than they are in doing anythinp, Sir. There is hardly a day passes in this province, JM - 4 Mr.

Speak<>r, but you hear on radio or !lee an advertisement in the papc ·r where briefs are invited on somethln?, or other. Briefs! You would feel like poing down and passing in your drawers. Briefs invited on this and that and the other thing! Why the paner industry in this province at the present time, Sir, rnust be hoomin?.. The heads of or1anizations and various groups and the individuals who are interested can scarcely r,et time to eat their meals, Sir, they are 5·;91

April 24, 1973 -~ so busy pr~parinR hriefs. Tape 12R9 Mr. Speaker, if this government think for one moment that this new ~illlDlick of theirs is r,oing to take the place of . action or preformance, Sir, then they are living in a fool's paradise. Our people are becoming too wise, Sir, to these stalling tactics and are not about to be fooled by nonsensical and foolish plans, talk about plans and about briefs as an excuse for their lack of action and incompetence. This is what you get when you allow yourself to be swallowed up by the academics down at Memorial University.

This is what you get, Sir, wastin~ time when there are so many important things need to be done in this province 1 ~~. Speaker, another major need of our people is good housing and what I mean by people here, Sir, are not only receipients of welfare, not o.nly people in the low income bracket but people in the middle income bracket, Sir, who are too often neglected in any programmes that we design yet they are the ones who have to pay the price. They have to pay for everything. We would not survive but for the people in the middle income bracket, Sir. Nobody ever designs a programme for them.

Can you blame them for becoming so disillusioned and disenchanted and disgusted. They are payinp: the bills and do not get the benefits. So this is another item, Mr. Speaker, that has gone down the drain despite all the fine promises made in their speech from the throne,last February I think it was. Our people are deeply disappointed, Sir, that our government has not made at least a gesture towards helping them to ownership of their own homes of adequate standards. Mr.

Speaker, remember the bellyaching that we heard about the price of beer in this province prior to the last two provincial elections and the biggest chawbag of all, not in this House this afternoon, the Minister of Social Services and Rehahilitation,who used to refer to it as the poor man's champagne. He told us, Hr. Speaker, as soon as they took over the adninistration, as soon 5'/9::: ..TM - 5

April 24, 1973 Tape 12R9 as we p;ot the boot, 1111 1100n 1111 w~ wrrc, how, 011t,rhe prlet• of het"r would he reduced. Well, Hr. Speaker, the votr.r11 of this province fell for it and they hove us out and they certainly got their reward, Sir, for swallowing this little piece of political bait. As a New Year's present in this province the Tory Administration announced an increase in liquor prices. Now, ~r. Speaker, if we have to collect taxes in this province or I suppose in society for that matter, if taxes there must be.then probably the best way to iet it is from liquor and tobacco.

But, Sir, in this case the chief impact was on people in the lower income ~roup. Scotch, Mr. Speaker, and imported liquors, :1.n other words, Sir_, the wealthy man's drink,received no increase in taxation but screech, Sir, the poor man's spiritr was taxed most heavily. That is the reward, Sir, the people of JM - 6 this province re~eived for swallowing that little piece of political bait. You do not hear any ranting and raving and roaring now from the member for St. John's Centre or from any of the other members about the price of beer in this province. Mr.

Speaker, I could not start to recount the bellyaching from the other side when they sat over here about borrowing and the provincial debt. !lhy, Sir, you were afraid to come out of your house in the morninp. afraid you would hear the poor old province i.·as r:one belly up, bankrupt. You were :1fraicl the sheriff was going to be standinr outside of your door ready to grab you and your children and drag you off to the hoosegow because she is ~one mad, she is gone belly up, the poor old province is bankrupt.

The ~inister of Finance, the biggest critic Qf all, a couple or three years ago lashed out so hard, Sir, against the former Liberal Administration and now we see that same honourahle minister, Sir, back ~cross the House, a memher of a government that is settinr. new hir.hs in borrowinr:. The way that this p;overnment is lashing out money rir.ht, left and centre, Sir, no wnndf'r tht'y h11ve to borrow.

April 24, 1973 Tape 1289 Durin~ the su=er,when all the ministers are jetting around the, far corners of the earth,we will -hear about the Minister of Finance. We can expect to hear about the Minister of Finance .making a few more trips to the bond markets of the world and every time he goes off to borrow a few dollars on behalf of the province he will take a squad of cabinet ministers with him, his buddies. The Minister of Finance will only travel in select company, no time for the Minister of Environment or the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

The honourable minister will take his buddies, his cabinet buddies and his special advisers with him and away he goes to the bond markets of the world and every time setting a new record and putting on a great perfoI'll)ance. The Minister of Finance can really do it up in style when he goes.

One time the Minister of Finance of this province would go off with the comptroller of the treasury and there was a great furor, a great hullabaloo and now we have star performances by the Minister of Financ~, occupying penthouses and lofty skyscrapers in North America and Europe with all his cabinet buddies and special assistants. The Minister of Finance is ,I would consider ,one of the buddies. Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Finance is finding out that in order to keep this poor old province afloat, Sir, just to barely maintain the services we already have in this province, Sir, that JM - 7 we are p.oini;, to have to keep on borrowing and borrowing. The govermnent is going to have to increase the debt that we left and when we take over two or three years from now the debt will be $1.S billion. That is a fact of life, Sir. Nobody is so naive as to swallow that nonsense any more. The former minister who got the boot would not even swallow that,as naive and as gullible as he might be.

Sir, the people of this province are like rnvself. They are not doctors or lawyers or educators. They are only poor~old sucks like myself, Sir, just bnrely scraped his way through hi~h school, who understands, Mr. Speaker, that if you are goinP- to maintain essential services in this province, not to mention, Mr. Speaker, the borrowing that will 5 ·;94

April 24, 1973 Tape 1289 be necessary in order·'lJ continue moving ahead, to expand and to develop, this is going to go on. People are not naive enough not to realize that, Sir, and, Mr. Speaker, chanp.ing governments is not going to change this fact of life and to say otherwise, Sir, is being less than honest with our people. Mr.

Speaker, when the full measure of the impact of this present selfish and undemocratic budget dawns on the people who decided to chanp,e horses in midstream in the effort to rid themselves of the much publicized but really nonexistent abuses of power,the masses of our people, Sir, will know that on March 24, 1972,they JM - R did indeed,under the influence of a campaign of character assassination, exercised their der.iocratic right to be wronp.. MR. SPEAKER : The honourable member for St. John's North. MR. J.A. CARTER: Mr.

Speaker, I am not wishinr to prolong this debate on the hudpet speech b11t still I find it very hard to sit still in r.,y pla.ce and allow such statements as we have heard from the honourable member for Jle]l Island to 12:0 unchallanged. It is a fact, Sir, it is a plain unvarnished fact that in the first twenty-two years of this province's history since confederation our affairs were misrnanar,ed to such an extent that we found ourselves with a very, very severe burden of debt. Now the first few years the debt did not seem to be so rreat although the mismanagement was equally bad.

It r,rew and grew in peometric proportion so that the last three or four years of the Smallwood reP,ime were the most critical And in fact had they been allowed to continue we would now find ourselves in very severestraits bec;1.usP the financial commun-f ty T s11,'.rec; t hart lost conf 1rlcn r:e J n thn t rart icul ar rep lmr. It w,1.s half in fun but all in earnest that the hnnourahle Minister of Finance last year,in replying to a question from the member for flell Island when he s;iid, "Oh, it is no trouble to pet money now, ·no trouble to ret money now." Uhat did the Minister of Finance do?

The Mj nister of Finance quipped, "Personal r,uarantees. '' There was 5'/95

April 24, 1973 Tape 1289 more truth in that than fiction . The point was that the money markets of the world finally saw 11 responsible person from a responsible regime asking for a responsible amount of money to perform some responsible acts,for the first time in twenty-three years. Well we find ourselves today at a crossroads.

Our debt has grown so hu~! that we have to try and turn it as best we can ' JM - 'l and many people are askinp.; the question, "Will we survive economically1" and-what kind of life can we look forward to if in fact every year we have to borrow more and more money?" Well I would sugp:est right away that the members of the opposition,if they would only use some discretion and learn th~ basic facts of economics, they might be able to help this province instead of hinder it. ln,en they ask for more of this and more of that, more of the other thing,it is quite impossible for these to be rranted without first puttinp. to~ether some set of priorities,and this I maintain this present government has tried to do.

You could argue that it has not be•n as successful as it might have been but I firmly believe that this government has for the first time in our history since confederation made a serious attempt to try and put forward some priorities. ~ow the budget speech of course allows members fairly wide-ranging debate so I propose to take advantage of this fact and not stick too close to the budget speech itself but to mention a few facts tha·t are very closely related to the budp:et because of their fin~ncial implications.

I have already in this House spoken and referred to two of the most critical issues in my view that have occurred this year. The first is the proposed downtown complex soMetimes referred to as the Crosbie Complex, Atlantic Place, on Water Street. ' low there have been many arguments both for and ap,ainst this complex but ny main concern is the implications that this complex presents, the financial implications. We understand from reliable authorities that the developer is-not providing the 5'/96

April 24, 1973 Tape 1289 JM - 1() requisite number of parkinp; spnces, nncl to provide commerdnl parkinp, spa~es can cost up to $5,000 per spnce. If in fact the developer is being let off the hook for somethinr of the order of 500 parking , spaces,then he is in fact being subsidized by 500 times $5,000 and this I maintain is unfair.

The other point of course is that with such an enonnous development plunked right down in the centre of the downtown area that the access roads that are going to have to be provided for this co1111)lex are ~oinP, to be very, very expensive and it is not the developer who is F,oing to have to pay the price, lt is the average taxpayer,both the municipal and provincial taxpayer.because inevitably this province will he call_ed upon to pony up the extra funds required.

The other large issue that I see that has arisen in the last couple of ,;;eeks is the ap-plication by radio station or television station C.JON to put a complex on Signal Hill. The :il!lplications there whil~ not of such financial dimensions certainly raise some very, very worthwhile points. One of the points being; 5'/97

April 24 1 1973 Tape no. 1290 Page l ·- HRW •hat ia to be the future of publicly held land? May any developer merely by making a proposal, ev~n a generous proposal, acquire,for very little expense to himself,land that was promised the public in perpetuity? If this is possible, then I see this as an implication of the most serious dimensions. Whatever one may think of the particular piece of land in question, I think it is the principle particularly that is extremely dangerous.

Those are two of the moat ignificant developments of this year and I call upon my colleagues ud I call upon all members of this House to think about them very carefully, long and carefully, think not only about the developments themselves but particularly about their implications. For those who are of a financial turn of mind, I would request them. to think particularly about the financial considerations. If public land is to be given away, then there is C!!rtainly a loss of revenue.

If developments be allowed that are eventually going to cost this province a great deal of money, then these are implications of. the most erious nature. Although it is perhaps too early for the historian to assess the achievements of this particular administration, I feel that the most important aspect of this administration's achievement is the removal of fear and the renewal of hope and trust. It is hard to analyze statistics particularly when all the statistics are not yet in. I understand that the private sector is flourishing and gives every sign of continuing to flourish.

Unemployment is up but so are wages. It is a peculiar time in economic history but it does seem as if the cushions against serious want that are provided by· federal and provincial governments and state governments for that matter in all North America seem to be having their effect. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I look forward with hope to the next few years and I would request that all honourable members pay particular heed to financial priorities in their requests to the.government and in their criticism of it. I would sincerely congratulate the Minister of Finance on his efforts and on his achievements.

I merely wish to reiterate my personal confidence in that particular individual. 5'l9b

April 24, 1973 Tape no. 1290 Page 2 MR. SENIOR: Mr. Speaker, I would like at this time to say just a few brief words in commenting-on the budget presented to the House sometime ago by the hon. Minister of Finance. In opening my remarks, I would like to congratulate the minister on the excellent job which I feel he has done and in the excellent budget which he has brought down this year. I think it is a realistic approach to spending in this province, an approach I think which must be taken •. I believe that we are heading finally in the right direction.

There are certain significant things in the budget speech which I would like to comment on very briefly in a general sort of way. The budget speech indicates that ve are spending this year more money than ve have ever spent in the province's history. On a per capita basis, we are spending $1,037,whereas the national average of all the provincial governments is only $824, which indicates to me, Sir, that we are trying harder and spending more money to increase and improve the services for our people and to improve their standard of living.

On the other side of the ledger, however, our budget indicates that our revenue is much lower than the national provincial average. It becomes clear then that if we are to provide services at the present pace, we IDWJt increase our revenue. I do not see, Sir, and I do not profess to have any great understanding of financial matters but it is becoming increasingly clear to me that we cannot continue to borrow money at an accelerated rate to provide services and also to borrow money to maintain them. The only alternative then if we are to survive is to increase our revenues.

I think this is the area which we are placing the emphasis on. I think this is the direction in which we are finally going. There are many ways in which we can increase our revenues in the province. I think one of the things which we have·to consider is the kind of development in this province which pays. I think we have seen too much of the kind of development in this province which not only does not 5 ., 9 !i

April 24, 1973 Tape no. 1290 Page 3 pay but in fact has cost us many, many millions of dollars and will continue to cost us and our children a great deal of money in the future. I think the establishment of such agencies as the Rural Development Authority will do much to increase the revenue in this province by placing emphasis on development in the rural areas of our province. I think it is safe to say, Sir, that moat of the long-term employment that has been provided in our province has been provided based on resource baaed industries.

If we are going to develop resource baaed industries in this province, it necessarily means that we are also going to develop in rural areas because 110at of our resources are located in the rural areas of this province. I think, too, Sir, to develop sensibly in thia province, ve llWlt have a ratio.nal approach to resettlement. I think resettlement auat be tied in very closely to development. I think in the past the resettlement programme has done much to discourage developaent in the rural areas of our province.

I think we have seen too 1a1ch of people aoving from the rural areas of our province, where they were capable of making a contribution to the provin~e, to areas where they could not uke a contribution to the provincebut became a liability to the province. I do not see, Sir, how we can develop sensibly in this province with this kind of an irrational approach •.

I think the aDSVer to this problem is to resettle people if necessary but resettle them within the rural areas in a form of community consolidation where they can still fish the same fishing grounds that they have in the past and can still carry on their way of life much the same as they did in the put but moat important can continue to make a contribution to the Proviftce of Newfoundland. It doe.a very little good, Sir, to move people from an area where they are making a contribution to the province to an area where they cannot make a contribution and the province has to continue to borrow money to provide