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April 12, 2022

SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE

Pursuant

to Standing Order 68, Derrick Bragg, MHA for Fogo Island - Cape Freels,

substitutes for Paul Pike, MHA for Burin - Grand Bank.

Pursuant

to Standing Order 68, Brian Warr, MHA for Baie Verte - Green Bay, substitutes

for Lucy Stoyles, MHA for Mount Pearl North.

Pursuant

to Standing Order 68, John Hogan, MHA for Windsor Lake, substitutes for Scott

Reid, MHA for St. George's - Humber.

Pursuant

to Standing Order 68, Lela Evans, MHA for Torngat Mountains, substitutes for Jim

Dinn, MHA for St. John's Centre.

The Committee met at 6 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR

(Gambin-Walsh):

Order,

please!

(Inaudible) for Mount Pearl North, we have a substitute, Baie Verte - Green Bay,

MHA Warr; for Burin - Grand Bank, we have Fogo Island - Cape Freels, Minister

Bragg; for St. George's - Humber, we have Windsor Lake, Minister Hogan; and for

St. John's Centre, we have Torngat Mountains, MHA Evans.

We will

take a break at probably 7:20, if that is okay with everybody. I'll put this up

here so I don't forget and keep going. Just a reminder ,

employees have to wear you r

masks unless you are speaking, an d

wait until your red light comes on. If it doesn't come on ,

just do a wave like this and the light will come on. Please introduce yourself

each time before you speak.

Let's see what else we've got to remind you. The water coolers are down here in

the back and up here behind me if anybody would like some water.

We're going to get everyone to go around and introduce yourselves. We will start

with the Committee and then we'll go with the Department of Municipal and

Provincial Affairs. After we call these subgroups, we will allow the minister to

speak if she so chooses and then we will start with the Official Opposition.

First, I just want to call the minutes from the last meeting. If I could get

someone to adopt them from the Social Services Committee of April 8.

J. WALL:

So moved.

CHAIR:

MHA Wall; seconded by MHA Warr.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR:

Okay, so we'll start with introductions on this side.

J. WALL:

Joedy Wall, MHA, Cape St. Francis.

D. HYNES:

Darrell Hynes, Director of Legislative and Regulatory Affairs for the Opposition

Office.

L. EVANS:

MHA Lela Evans, MHA for Torngat Mountains.

S. FLEMING:

Scott Fleming, Researcher, Third Party Caucus Office.

J. PUDDISTER:

Jess Puddister, Sessional Support, Third Party Caucus Office.

B. WARR:

Brian Warr, MHA, Baie Verte - Green Bay.

J. HOGAN:

John Hogan, MHA, Windsor Lake.

D. BRAGG:

Derrick Bragg, MHA, Fogo Island - Cape Freels.

B. POLLARD:

Ben Pollard, Political Staffer for the Government Members' Office

T. LOMOND:

Ted Lomond, Deputy Minister.

K. HOWELL:

Krista Howell, MHA for St. Barbe - L'Anse aux Meadows.

B. HANLON:

Bren Hanlon, Assistant Deputy Minister, Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

R. SIMMS:

Randy Simms, Executive Assistant to the Minister of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs.

J. HOWARD:

Jacqueline Howard, Director of Communications, Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

B. STEELE:

Bonnie Steele, Departmental Controller.

CHAIR:

I ask the Clerk to call the fist subheading and we will start.

CLERK (Russell):

1.1.01 to 1.2.04 inclusive, Executive and Support Services.

CHAIR:

Shall 1.1.01 to 1.2.04, Executive and Support Services, carry?

We'll start with the minister.

K. HOWELL:

Thank you.

I'd just like to take a minute to have a few remarks off the top. Good evening,

everyone. It's a different experience this time around than it was last year. I

feel like I have a little bit better handle on what we're up to here this

evening. I appreciate the chance to get to chat with you. Thank you for

participating in Estimates for the Department of Municipal and Provincial

Affairs.

I'd just like to highlight a few of the key activities that the department has

undertaken this year and some of the things that we'll be focused on in the

months ahead. The department is mandated to support the economic and social

sustainability of municipalities, communities and regions throughout the

delivery of programs, services and supports to local governments and

stakeholders. This is done through legislative, financial and land-use planning

services, as well as training, funding through various programs administered

through the department.

The Estimates cover all of the spending and revenue for the fiscal year of

'22-'23. You'll note that the Estimates are divided into subsections, various

sections. We're looking at Executive and Support Services, Administrative

Support, Strategic Financial Management, Policy and Strategic Planning, Regional

Support, Municipal Finance, Municipal Debt Servicing, Municipal Operating

Grants, Special Assistance, Community Enhancement, Provincial Gas Tax Revenue

Sharing, Local Governance and Planning, as well as the Canada Community-Building

Fund.

If you'll just give me a moment, I can talk to each of these and just give a

little explanation of what it is that occurs in these different sections. We're

organized into several sections: Local Governance and land-use planning being

one of the top. The Local Governance

section supports the vision of viable,

sustainable communities led by strong local governments. The land-use planning

section promotes and supports the growth of these sustainable communities.

When we look into Municipal Finance, we talk about a division that provides

financial assistance and guidance to municipalities on funding programs, on

borrowing initiatives, debt servicing and financial compliance. It provides

financial assistance and support through special assistance grants or community

enhancement and administers the Canada Community-Building Fund.

The Municipal Support division provides ongoing support and advice to local

government on various issues. The regional offices serve as the primary contact

between the department and the local governments. So our regional directors,

managers and staff are

often the face of the

department with local governments in the province.

The

Policy and Strategic Planning Division coordinates and supports the policy

agendas of the department. The Strategic Financial Management Division is a

shared service, providing financial management and general operation services to

the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

It is

the point of contact for all agencies, boards and commissions. Their financial

reporting is done through our department. It's also the main departmental

contact for the Department of Finance and Treasury Board, related to financial

functions, budget submissions, public accounts and budget monitoring submitted

by the departments and ABCs.

This

department's gross expenditure budget for 2022-23 is $153,213,400 with a related

revenue of approximately $33,053,600 for a net expenditure of $120,159,800. The

Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs has 65 positions; 54 are

permanent, nine are temporary and two are contractual. Right now we have eight

vacancies located over three offices throughout the province. Sixty-three per

cent are female. I think that's pretty cool. Sixty-three per cent of the staff

are female, and 37 per cent are male.

The

department may be considered small compared to some others, but it is mighty;

this past year has been very busy and very productive, bringing forward new

legislation to the House of Assembly, drafting new municipal legislation,

reviewing the Joint Working Group's report and working towards a comprehensive

plan for regionalization, just to name a few things.

terms of the department's funding programs, one of the most critical to

municipalities across the province is the Municipal Operating Grant program. We

understand the importance of this source of funding to communities, and the

importance of the funding being stable and predictable. With this in mind, we've

committed to allocating not less than $22 million a year for Municipal Operating

Grants for at least the next three years. So while MOGs or Municipal Operating

Grants are the fiscal framework that provides community leaders with a level of

confidence that the funding will now be maintained over a multiple years.

In the

budget this year, the government is providing an exemption from registration

fees on vehicles for regional service boards, so this is another positive step

in moving forward. The exemption will put the boards on par with municipalities,

which are already receiving this exemption. It also helps reduce the costs of

regional services, such as waste management, and will help the board manage the

costs to residents.

Special

Assistance is another funding program in the department. It is administered to

eligible communities and projects. Some of these Special Assistance or financial

aid are provided for emergencies related to health and/or life-safety issues,

any municipalities experiencing financial difficulties or issues that may arise

that have been beyond a municipal budgetary process.

Often

there are special projects or initiatives involving municipalities or Local

Service District committees or other entities that will come forward and we can

see the value that it adds to a community so we would give those consideration

as well. We are pleased that Budget 2022

allocates $2 million for the Special Assistance Fund. During the past year of

'21-'22, there were over 100 projects funded. A list of the projects will be

provided to you.

The

Community Enhancement Employment Program, or CEEP as we refer to it, is a

short-term employment. Workers, in rural areas particularly, are employed by

local governments or community organizations for up to 420 hours to assist them

with eligibility for Employment Insurance benefits. The department provides

funding towards projects that contribute to tourism development, economic

development, community and municipal infrastructure and community services. The

department also encourages project sponsors to develop projects that will

provide skill development or opportunities for workers to gain ongoing benefits

in the region. In '21-'22, there were 199 projects through 177 sponsor

organizations supported through CEEP. We have a list of those projects for you

as well.

The

Canada Community-Building Fund is administered by the department and we're

pleased to see the recent addition of fire halls and fire station infrastructure

to that list of project criteria. This will contribute to the programs objective

of building stronger and more resilient communities. In addition, municipalities

are able to apply for funding for projects that have already been started as

long as they are in the same fiscal year as the application. We can certainly

see the benefits of that running through communities that have undertaken these

massive projects to forward their communities.

The

department works closely with municipalities to ensure that they are aware and

have any support that they need in these application processes. The timelines,

the deadlines, oftentimes they get tripped up in some of that and we work with

them to make sure that they can take full advantage of this fund.

The

commitment to multi-year funding for MOGs is certainly an advancement in the

budget this year, as is the exemption for the vehicle registration fees for

regional service boards. Despite a multitude of demands across many sectors, I'm

so pleased that Budget 2022 maintains

funding for municipalities, with more than $141 million available to communities

through the programs that I just referenced. This speaks to the value that we

place on the municipal sector.

understand that a sustainable, thriving municipal sector is a key to the

province's overall prosperity and growth. This is one of the reasons why

regionalization is a priority for our department. We know that a regional

approach can help ensure communities are sustainable. Globally, the most

successful and thriving municipal governance function within a collaborative

regional approach.

The

department is focused heavily on a review and analysis right now of the Joint

Working Group's report and recommendations on regionalization. The most

responsible and meaningful action our government can take for communities is to

ensure that a local voice and necessary services for all residents is supported.

Regional government will provide representation for all residents, while

ensuring that they receive an optimal level of service. We recognize that

resources will be required to support a move to this type of regional structure.

There is no funding allocated in the budget this year, but we are moving through

our analysis to finalize a comprehensive plan. As we move through and recognize

the needs, funding will be available to support the initiative.

I'm

sure you can appreciate the massive undertaking that changing our governance

model in the province will bring. There are many implications that we must

carefully consider as we look at our communities and consider our residents. I

want to make sure that any model we put forward makes sense and it's achievable,

because we can talk theoretically and we can say how we want it to look but if

it doesn't make sense for the people of this province, then we're doomed from

the start. So we want it to be sensible and applicable, and that's going to take

some time.

As we

move forward, residents in Local Service District committees and municipalities

will have many opportunities for input into exactly what regionalization will

look like for them in their particular area. We want them to have a voice in the

services that are going to be offered and the ones that will be delivered. That

will be the mandate of the regional government.

addition to regionalization, the department has many other irons in the fire.

We've had great success with the Municipal Come Home Year grants that were

announced in the past November. To support the high level of interest in this

new initiative and the number of applications received, funding was increased

from $250,000 to approximately $355,000 and 181 projects were supported.

So it

is incredible uptake and we're certainly looking forward to what communities can

offer in Come Home Year 2022. We know that communities are poised to do these

types of things. They have proven it time and time again and we're glad to be

able to partner with them to make these things happen.

Municipal governance took a step forward this past fall with the introduction of

the new Municipal Conduct Act . The

importance of the act was reflected in the debate and ultimately the full

support of the House when it received Royal Assent on November 4. The department

has been providing information sessions, over 800 municipal councillors,

administrators and staff have registered for these virtual events on the

Municipal Conduct Act . This

demonstrates to us the need and importance of this legislation.

Sessions were facilitated by the department and gave opportunity for

municipalities to get detailed information about provisions under the act. The

act will govern conflict of interest, ethical behaviour and professional conduct

for municipalities and will allow them to establish their own codes of conduct

to address issues like conflict of interest, bullying or harassment in the

workplace.

We also

talked about the dedicated staff in the department who are working diligently to

finalize these regulations. We've worked on this for a number of months now and

it is almost ready to bring forward. I know that communities are eager to get

that in the near future.

You're

looking up at the clock so I better haul to it.

We also

wanted to reference that we've been having discussions with the Professional

Planners Association here in our province. They provide an important

contribution to the growth and the economy and the vitality of our communities.

We've recently received the go-ahead to work towards drafting legislation for

the planners. So we're very pleased about that.

We also

made significant upgrades to our Community Relocation Policy. We've lowered the

voting threshold and changed the definition of permanent residence and included

statements that will offer more clarification.

We also

have been working to address outstanding appeals, and I've had this

conversation. There are several in the queue that we want to make sure we get

them bumped up the line so that communities residents can have their appeals

heard in a reasonable time frame. So we are working on addressing that as well.

I've

still got a few things, but we'll leave it at that. There's much progress over

the past year and moving forward into the next fiscal year we do think there are

some big things on the horizon for municipalities. We look forward to working on

those initiatives. And big hats-off to the crew that I'm sitting with here

tonight because they've worked very hard to make these things happen.

I look

forward to the inquiries and whatever it is we can get on discussion here

tonight.

CHAIR:

Thank you very much,

Minister.

I will

go to the Committee and start the first questions.

MHA

Wall.

J. WALL:

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank

you, Minister, for your

preamble. I did make some notes as you were going, I

didn't get everything, so if I do ask a question, just bear with me.

First

of all, some general introductory questions before we get into the line items.

Can we please obtain a copy of your briefing binder?

K. HOWELL:

Sure. Yes, I think we have

those.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

So with

respect to your attrition plan, is it still being followed? If so, what changes

have been in the last year?

K. HOWELL:

It's been implemented in our

department, but to my knowledge right now this year, we don't have anybody

who'll fall in those parameters. Am I correct in saying that?

J. WALL:

No? Okay.

Thank

you.

You

touched on it, with respect to numbers and the percentage, I know you have eight

vacancies, you mentioned, but I didn't quite catch how many people are employed

in the department.

K. HOWELL:

There are 65 positions, 57

of which are filled and eight vacancies.

J. WALL:

Okay.

Any

retirements over the last year, Minister?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

How many do we have?

K. HOWELL:

Three.

J. WALL:

Okay.

Any

positions eliminated from the department?

K. HOWELL:

No.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

Any

layoffs? No.

New

hires?

K. HOWELL:

Yes, I have two.

J. WALL:

Are they contractual, short

term or permanent?

K. HOWELL:

We have one in regional

support and one in local governance and planning.

I'll

turn to our controller.

B. STEELE:

They're both filling permanent positions.

J. WALL:

Okay.

With

respect to the COVID fund, has the department received any funds over the last

12 months?

K. HOWELL:

Sorry, the COVID fund?

J. WALL:

COVID.

K. HOWELL:

No.

J. WALL:

No.

K. HOWELL:

Oh, sorry, the b'ys are

going to keep me from getting in trouble.

B. HANLON:

Just to kind of clarify. We had year two of our COVID stimulus program last

year. So that was a $23.6 million dollar program over two years. Those projects

are now completed. There are three or four still outstanding with reports but

those are now completed.

There

were 258 projects approved under our COVID stimulus program.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

Has it

impacted your department's service delivery at all, with respect to COVID? Any

issues?

K. HOWELL:

I think the same issues that

applied across all departments. We made adjustments and accommodations and the

budget will reflect the areas in which that happened.

J. WALL:

Okay.

And did

the department receive any funds from the Contingency Fund?

K. HOWELL:

No.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

You

touched on the appeals, you and I discussed that a couple of times. Do you have

a number of the appeals that are outstanding or –?

K. HOWELL:

I do.

Within

the Eastern Regional Appeal Board, there are 36 outstanding. I know I have that

note here somewhere – there we go, thank you, boss. The Central Regional Appeal

Board has three outstanding and they are scheduled to be heard in April. The

Western Regional Appeal Board has three outstanding that are scheduled to be

heard in May. The Labrador Regional Appeal Board has one outstanding.

I would

like to say that often when these things are rescheduled it's the proponents who

want them rescheduled. It s not often a reflection of the Appeal Board having to

want them rescheduled, it's usually the participants.

J. WALL:

Okay.

So you

have a full complement on the Appeal Board now?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

Okay, thank you.

K. HOWELL:

I'm correct in saying the

Regional Appeal Board is filled right now, yes.

J. WALL:

Okay, great. Thank you.

K. HOWELL:

Sorry, I just want to make

sure I'm not telling anybody any lies.

J. WALL:

No, no, all good.

With

respect to community relocation files, how many are there before government now?

K. HOWELL:

Right now, we have five that

are of interest – communities that have approached our department to ask those

types of questions.

J. WALL:

Okay.

Something that has been quite common throughout the province with respect to

boil orders. How many municipalities are currently under a boil order?

K. HOWELL:

I can't tell you the exact

number. I'll have to get that back to you. The Department of Environment and

Climate Change will have a better reflection of that.

J. WALL:

Okay.

So the

municipal legislation review, can you just give us a brief update on that, and

of course, the city's act as well. I know we discussed that several times, but

any update on that?

K. HOWELL:

It's still an ongoing

process. As you can appreciate, it's a very large piece of legislation. We're

working through that piece by piece, and the city's act, will be very closely

linked to that. A lot of it will mirror the principles and initiatives in one

and will be very much reflected in the others. We anticipate that one moving

along a little quicker.

J. WALL:

Okay.

K. HOWELL:

Coming to the House of

Assembly this fall.

J. WALL:

Is it any time frame, one

year, two year, before the – what are we looking at?

K. HOWELL:

Well, we're hoping to get it

to the floor of the House of Assembly this fall, hopefully, and then the date in

which it's enacted will depend on how that goes.

J. WALL:

That sounds good. Thanks.

Minister, with respect to the Greene report and the recommendations, have your

department completed any analysis with respect to the Greene report and how it

would affect your department going forward?

K. HOWELL:

Nothing specific to our

department at this time.

J. WALL:

Okay.

With

respect to regionalization and the feedback from it since you released the plan,

any cost analysis done with respect to that report?

K. HOWELL:

That's the process we're undergoing right now.

J. WALL:

Still ongoing.

K. HOWELL:

Yeah. Once we receive the

report, we want to make sure that we have an adequate picture of what we're

looking at here. That will be part of the process when we bring forward our

final plan.

J. WALL:

Okay.

You

said the municipal code of conduct – we did have that here in the House on

November 4 and it's good to see that there's a lot of interest. With respect to

the training that you're going to do with municipalities, any plan for that with

respect to how you're going to roll it out, the scheduling, in-house?

K. HOWELL:

We've done sessions with

over 800 participants already, to give the updates and to discuss the contents

of what we're looking at with the code here. I'll let the ADM speak to that.

B. HANLON:

We've got a committee established within the department to look at things like

templates to provide to municipalities for code of conduct, training for the

code of conduct, templates, as well as the mandatory training plan. We have a

committee that meets every week to kind of work through that now.

We're

in contact with MNL, because they can be partnering with us in training as well.

We do have a committee that's established now to make sure that everything lines

up when the regulations come in, so that everything can be done on time.

J. WALL:

Okay, thank you.

With

respect to an old topic, the NEAR Plan, is it on your agenda, Minister? Any

update on that?

K. HOWELL:

Yes, it is. I actually had

conversations last week with MNL about how we move forward with this plan.

J. WALL:

Excellent. Good to hear on

that one.

I can

get into the line items now.

K. HOWELL:

Sure.

J. WALL:

I have a few minutes.

Minister, 1.1.01, Operating Accounts, Transportation and Communications: It

dropped from $30,300 to $45,800 and going back up to $45,800. Do you envision

normal operations returning?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

We've

had a lower travel cost because of COVID in the last year. As we resume normal

operations – some of the things can be done virtually, but we anticipate

returning to normal operations.

J. WALL:

So from what we've learned

there is some opportunity for savings, no doubt.

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

1.2.01, Executive Support,

Transportation and Communications: It dropped to $13,000 from $18,900 and back

up to $18,900. So, again, the same type of set-up, envision a return to normal

operations for that as well?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

Under Purchased Services,

there's a $4,000 drop. Can you just explain that, Minister, please?

K. HOWELL:

That's lower copiers,

lowering shredding, lower meeting rental costs due to the Public Health measures

and restrictions for COVID-19.

J. WALL:

Okay.

1.2.02

Administrative Support, Salaries, there was nothing spent. There's only $13,800

there but what was that?

K. HOWELL:

Yes, that was because in the

previous budget we didn't have any summer students. We didn't bring anybody into

the department at that time because we were sending people home to work. We

envisioned then bringing them into this year's budget.

J. WALL:

Okay, thank you.

Under

Transportation and Communications, again no staff, but still $18,000 was spent

and now it's up to $29,300. Can you comment on that one please?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

This is

a zero-based budget adjustment for postage based on historical costs. Funds were

reprofiled to the Policy and Strategic Planning, the Grants and Subsidies

section. Part of that was an increase in the cost of the Provincial-Territorial

Officials Committee fees. Our department pays into that so that we are part of

those conversations and we receive large benefit from that relationship. A lot

of the research that's conducted on behalf of all the provinces is shared across

all the provinces, so we get that benefit.

J. WALL:

Okay, thank you.

Revenue

- Provincial, the amount increased from $5,000 to $121,600.

K. HOWELL:

That was the recovery of

prior year's special assistance, Community Enhancement Employment Program grants

and gas, water tax and waste water funds, specific projects that were recovered.

J. WALL:

So we can get a list of

those projects?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

Okay, perfect.

T. LOMOND:

The big number there is the

regional water project to extend the Corner Brook water system to Mount Moriah

came in under budget. So that sent back about $117,000 into the fund. That's

basically what you're seeing.

There

are a few dribs and drabs, but really it's one big project that came in under

budget. Because it's a regional project, we can't let the money sit with a

municipality like we normally would and say we'll use it towards other projects,

because it's regional. It has to come back in.

J. WALL:

Understood.

All

right, thank you.

Minister, 1.2.03, Strategic Financial Management, under Salaries, again there's

a drop last year of $122,600. Is this just attributed to job losses or …?

K. HOWELL:

Yes, this would be

forecasted – sorry, what number did you say?

J. WALL:

1.2.03, Salaries.

K. HOWELL:

1.2.03, Salaries. The

decrease was vacant positions and a recruitment process. There was a manager for

a portion of the year, an Accounting Clerk II and an administration officer.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

Under

Supplies, why was this the only operating amount to increase, to $2,500 from

$1,600?

K. HOWELL:

There was a software

upgrade, the purchase of software for a website development.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

Minister, 1.2.04, Policy and Strategic Planning, under Salaries, the increase.

Why is the increase from $332,600 to $373,600?

K. HOWELL:

Sorry, say your number

again. I am listening to you.

J. WALL:

1.2.04, under Salaries –

K. HOWELL:

Okay, hang on now.

1.5 –

thank you. I was gone too far ahead there, sorry.

J. WALL:

No worries.

under Salaries, why the increase from $332,600 to $373,600?

K. HOWELL:

That would be some positions

were staffed at a higher salary step than budgeted for. Our policy division was

a new division in 2021-22, so the costs were estimated. This year's budget is a

more accurate reflection of what the department will actually incur.

J. WALL:

Okay, thank you.

Under

Transportation and Communications, what was the need to increase the budget to

$6,700 if it was only $700 last year?

K. HOWELL:

There are anticipated

increased travel costs that will be a part of this process.

J. WALL:

Okay.

The

last one for 1.2.04, Grants and Subsidies: Can we please get a list or an

explanation of the $9,900 that was spent last year?

K. HOWELL:

I think that is due to the

Provincial-Territorial Officials Committee. That's where that money went.

J. WALL:

The one you spoke about

earlier?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

Okay, thank you, Minister.

Madam

Chair, that's all I have for this portion.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

MHA Evans.

L. EVANS:

Thank you.

You're

very thorough, I must say.

I'll

just start off with some general questions. Has any decision been made as of now

regarding the residents of unincorporated areas, in terms of taxation,

amalgamation or in terms of their legal status?

K. HOWELL:

Not at this point. We're

still working through the recommendations in the report and determining, as I've

mentioned, what is the best plan for communities all across the province.

L. EVANS:

Okay. Thank you.

Would

you be able to give an outline of the type of work that the Municipal Support

team does and how many people are employed in this part of the department?

K. HOWELL:

Municipal Support, would

that include the regional supports, too, we're talking about? So that would be

the front-facing departments that interact with the communities. We have three

regional offices across the province that do the more face-to-face interactions,

offering assistance and advice to communities all across the province.

L. EVANS:

Okay.

The

next question: The minister said in February that the

Municipal Conduct Act will be brought

into effect later this year. So what's the next step in the process?

K. HOWELL:

Right now, we're developing

– we pretty much got the regulations developed. We have to pass those through

the departments to make sure that everybody has had their say and then we will

be ready to implement those.

L. EVANS:

And I do apologize if I

duplicate some of the things that's been said because I was following along with

what you were saying but I missed some things and, of course, with Joedy –

K. HOWELL:

That's fine. I've got you.

I've got good stuff to say so I don't mind saying it twice.

L. EVANS:

Our heads are kind of

cluttered with all of the information from today as well.

K. HOWELL:

So much.

L. EVANS:

What resources are being

allocated by the department to review and approve the codes of conduct developed

and submitted by the municipalities to comply with the municipal code of conduct

act?

K. HOWELL:

I think that speaks to what

the ADM had said earlier. There's a committee in place right now that's looking

at the code of conduct and discussing it with communities. We've done the

education sessions and should the need arise we will do more. Just making sure

that all of these things are captured.

L. EVANS:

Right.

Just

continuing on with the code of conduct training now. Will there be increases in

the Municipal Training Financial Assistance Fund so that the councillors will be

able to afford to meet the statutory requirement because there's going to be a

huge need for that?

K. HOWELL:

That's a discussion that's

still ongoing in our department.

L. EVANS:

Okay.

Do you

see any problems with that?

K. HOWELL:

Not at this point. The

sessions that we offer –

B. HANLON:

So we're looking at different delivery options. We're looking at an online

delivery option. We're making sure that we have sessions planned for all regions

of the province – Newfoundland and Labrador. We're also developing templates to

assist all municipalities with the code of conduct. So those are some of the

things we are doing to make sure it runs as smoothly as possible.

L. EVANS:

Yes, and that's bringing it

all under a standard. I must say, there's been a lot of positive feedback in my

areas about the code of conduct. I think it's been badly needed.

K. HOWELL:

Yes, it is.

L. EVANS:

Could you provide an update

on the Provincial Solid Waste Management Strategy? What progress has been made

in this past year and what's left to implement?

K. HOWELL:

I will have to get that

information for you. I don't have it right now. Most of that lies within the

Department of Environment and Climate Change right now, after the departmental

break. That's available to you from Minister Davis's shop.

L. EVANS:

Okay, perfect. Thank you.

Has

there been any progress made in reviewing the acts of various cities and

bringing amendments before the House?

K. HOWELL:

That's a piece of

legislation that we're working on in our department now. We're looking at the

Municipalities Act, as well as the city's acts. They are large pieces of

legislation and there's a lot of variance in some of the categories so we're

trying to make it more streamlined and hoping to have it in the House for the

fall. Thereafter, the city's acts will follow very closely because a lot of the

information will be mirrored from one to the next.

L. EVANS:

Thank you.

Has

there been any movement on the Northeast Avalon Regional Plan in the past year,

and would we be able to have an update?

K. HOWELL:

Yes. The NEAR Plan, the

Northeast Avalon Regional Plan is something that's been hanging around for a

number of years. In the last year, it's been revived in our department. It's

something that we've talked about in the last number of months and, actually,

last week got an update from MNL that they're ready to move forward and see if

we can get this across the finish line.

L. EVANS:

Thank you.

In last

year's municipal elections, we saw an increase of 10 per cent in the number of

women elected, as well as two transgender candidates who were chosen to

represent their fellow citizens.

Would

we be able to have an update on the measures that the department is taking to

encourage other women, transgender, non-binary leaders to step forward and run

for office?

K. HOWELL:

That's part of our

partnership with MNL. We've worked very closely with them over the last year in

funding the Make Your Mark campaign, which was largely a part of the elections

and trying to get more diverse candidates to run in municipal elections. We will

continue those conversations.

We've

also had numerous interactions with councils all across the province. We do

monthly coffee breaks that we participate in, virtual coffee breaks that we've

been able to participate in as well when we're partnering with MNL and PMA on

some of these initiatives.

L. EVANS:

Thank you.

Just

moving on now to the line items.

1.2.02,

I'm not sure if this question was asked, under Operating Accounts. Spending on

all items listed under Operating Accounts was under budget: Why was this?

K. HOWELL:

The zero?

L. EVANS:

Yes.

K. HOWELL:

That was because last year

we didn't have any summer students and this year we have budgeted for it.

L. EVANS:

I apologize if that was

already asked.

K. HOWELL:

That's okay.

L. EVANS:

1.2.03, Strategic Financial

Management, there was already a questions asked here about Salaries, but we were

wondering how many vacancies do exist?

K. HOWELL:

Right now, in Strategic

Financial Management, we have five vacancies.

L. EVANS:

1.2.04, Policy and Strategic

Planning, what kind of travel is expected in the upcoming year?

K. HOWELL:

This department does a lot

of our work with MNL and PMA so we budgeted for staff to travel to conferences.

L. EVANS:

Under 2.1.01, Regional

Support.

K. HOWELL:

We're not up to two yet, I

don't think, are we?

L. EVANS:

Oh, sorry. I was just going

ahead.

K. HOWELL:

That's fine. No worries.

L. EVANS:

Where the questions were

asked before, I had a lot of marks up there.

CHAIR:

Are you finished?

L. EVANS:

Yes.

CHAIR:

MHA Wall.

J. WALL:

I do have one question on

regional government – regionalization plan. I have had many calls, emails, with

respect to cabins or vacant land or even back property. Are you going to be

looking at that as well within the whole engagement process?

K. HOWELL:

It is still part of the

conversation. Like I said, we don't have our concrete model yet but they're part

of province, this land and the province that we want to consider. We're still

very much looking at what we need to do there to make sure that we get something

that is suitable, responsible and makes sense.

J. WALL:

All right. Thank you very

much.

That's

all, Madam Chair.

CHAIR:

I ask the Clerk to recall

the subheading group.

CLERK:

1.1.01 to 1.2.04, Executive

and Support Services.

CHAIR:

Shall 1.1.01 to 1.2.04,

Executive and Support Services, carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 1.2.04 carried.

CHAIR:

Okay, we'll ask the Clerk to

call the next group.

CLERK:

2.1.01 to 2.3.02 inclusive,

Municipal Support.

CHAIR:

2.1.01 to 2.3.02, Municipal

Support, inclusive.

MHA

Wall.

J. WALL:

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Under

2.1.01, Salaries: Minister, why was there a drop from $941,800 to $887,900?

K. HOWELL:

That decrease was vacant

positions.

J. WALL:

And how many vacant

positions, Minister?

K. HOWELL:

In Regional Support, we have

one vacancy right now.

J. WALL:

Just one. Thank you.

I have

nothing to note in 2.1.02.

2.2.01,

Municipal Debt Servicing, under Grants and Subsidies: Why the decrease from

$49,200 to $9,800?

K. HOWELL:

Right. The lower debt

servicing expenses are due to the decline in the debt balances. So these are old

capital works project loans that the government had, we had agreements with the

towns to pay a portion. The practice is no longer with government so we now

distribute the amount for approved projects through our municipal infrastructure

department.

J. WALL:

Okay. Thank you.

2.2.02,

Municipal Debt Servicing - Principal, under Grants and Subsidies.

K. HOWELL:

The same would apply.

J. WALL:

Same apply?

K. HOWELL:

Yeah.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

K. HOWELL:

The lower debt servicing

expenses are because of a declining debt balance.

J. WALL:

Okay.

2.2.03,

Municipal Operating Grants: I do know that you mentioned earlier about keeping

the level at $22 million, but have you given any consideration or discussed with

municipalities with respect to inflation and salaries and the increase in the

price of diesel and all that?

K. HOWELL:

Absolutely. Those are

reflections of conversations that we have, I'm sure, in every department. That's

why we were pleased to say no less than. We want to ensure that support is there

so that –

J. WALL:

Three years, right?

K. HOWELL:

Yeah, for the next three

years, so that they have that stability to work with – given the ever-changing

prices that you mentioned. It's no less than so there's still room to grow. But

for now we know they're secured on those principles.

J. WALL:

Okay.

Minister, will the proposed regionalization plan impact that dollar figure?

K. HOWELL:

That's, again, part of our

ongoing conversation as we look at our regionalization plan and what it is that

we move forward on. That'll be part of the conversation I'm sure.

J. WALL:

Okay. Thank you.

2.2.04,

Special Assistance, under Grants and Subsidies: Can you please explain the

additional $268,700 and can we get a list of the disbursements for the last

year, please?

K. HOWELL:

Yes, a list will certainly

be provided. The increase is due to the overage of the Come Home Year

expenditures. That was additional funds transferred from the Department of

Finance from a contingency and the community enhancement programs.

J. WALL:

Okay.

2.2.05,

we saw a drop of $350,000. Can we also get a list of disbursements for that one,

Minister, please?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

Why the

drop of $350,000 under Community Enhancement?

K. HOWELL:

It's an anticipated savings

and delays in receiving the final reports from communities.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

K. HOWELL:

The deputy minister wanted

to add something there.

T. LOMOND:

I just wanted to mention

that's normal. When we do these projects, it's not uncommon to get some

slippage. We'll provide a certain amount of money for projects that will come in

slightly under. We'll get a little bit of money back at the end of the year so

you'll probably see this same sort of phenomenon again next year in Estimates.

J. WALL:

Okay.

Please

don't hold me to remembering it though.

Thank

you for that.

2.2.06,

under Provincial Gas Tax Revenue Sharing: Again, can we get a full list of

disbursements for that as well?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

2.3.01,

Local Governance and Planning, under Salaries: Can you please explain the drop

of $114,200?

K. HOWELL:

Sorry, where was that?

J. WALL:

2.3.01, under Salaries.

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

There's a drop of $114,200.

K. HOWELL:

That would be vacancies and

a recruitment process.

J. WALL:

How many vacancies are in

that, for that dollar amount?

K. HOWELL:

In Local Governance and

Planning, we have one vacancy.

J. WALL:

One. Okay.

Under

Professional Services, just wondering why there was an extra $9,000 spent last

year.

K. HOWELL:

That was additional costs

for a Labrador Protected Roads Zoning Plan consultant, and additional costs for

an appeal board case.

J. WALL:

Labrador road consulting?

K. HOWELL:

The Labrador Protected Road

Zoning Plan.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

K. HOWELL:

That was a consultant that

was hired for that piece of work.

J. WALL:

Only?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

J. WALL:

Okay.

Under

Purchased Services, can we get an explanation for the additional $11,000,

please?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

That

was additional advertising and meeting cost, and an appeal board consultant.

J. WALL:

Okay.

Under

Grants and Subsidies, it dropped from $88,500 to $36,500, which was actually

spent, but budgeted back to $88,500 for this year. So can you just explain that,

please, Minister?

K. HOWELL:

The lower grants issued to

support the preparation of legislatively required feasibility reports for a

regional co-operation initiatives.

J. WALL:

And under Revenue -

Provincial, can you please explain the drop from $29,500 to $15,000?

K. HOWELL:

That'll be a lower cost

recovery on fees and expenses related to the Protected Roads Zoning amendment.

So the plan is done. There won't be as many requests to look into it and so

there won't be any fees recovered for those requests.

J. WALL:

Okay. Understood.

Minister, 2.3.02, under the CCBF, Operating Accounts, Transportation and

Communications: Can you please explain the drop from $11,600 to $2,000?

K. HOWELL:

That was lower travel cost

due to the Public Health restrictions for COVID.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

And

under Professional Services: Why was only $15,000 spent of the $32,900 for last

year?

K. HOWELL:

That was a lower than

anticipated expenditure related to the development of the Municipal Capital

Asset Management framework. So that's a project that we'd committed to working

with TI on, but it got delayed. So we will still want to continue to support

that program and we've been given indications that that will go forward.

J. WALL:

Minister, can you repeat

that, the Municipal Capital –

K. HOWELL:

Municipal Capital Asset

Management framework.

J. WALL:

Is that something new for

the department? I'm just not familiar with it so I just asked.

B. HANLON:

So that's been on the go a few years. It's funded through gas tax. Of course,

promoting municipalities having capital asset management plans in place, so this

is for the province to develop a consistent framework to assist with that and

also track capital asset management.

It has

been on the go for a few years. It got delayed a bit because of COVID but TI are

leading it and it is back on track again now.

J. WALL:

Good to know. Thank you.

Under

Grants and Subsidies, it dropped from $110 million to $31 million, which was

actually spent, but you are budgeted back to $110 million for this year. So can

you explain that please and can we get a list of the disbursements, under Grants

and Subsidies?

K. HOWELL:

That's lower expenditures.

There was a carry-over of funds into the fiscal for this year, some

administration waste management and waste-water projects.

J. WALL:

Okay.

The

last one, Minister, for this section, under Revenue - Federal, it goes from $64

million to $33 million. So can you please explain what's going on with this line

item?

K. HOWELL:

That was the one-time

federal COVID stimulus program, the funding that was approved for last year.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

That's

it for this section, Madam Chair.

Thank

you.

L. EVANS:

I think I started to ask

this question; 2.1.01 in Regional Support, spending on Salaries was lower than

expected last year. Are there any current vacancies here?

K. HOWELL:

Yes, Regional Support has

one vacancy.

L. EVANS:

One vacancy? Thank you.

How

many special inspections has the department conducted in the past year, and does

the number reflect an increase or decrease over the past year?

K. HOWELL:

I am going to defer to my –

B. HANLON:

So there was a sort of official special inspection done in the Town of Kippens

this year. Normally special inspections, it would be one or two a year maximum

that go through the entire process, but there was one this year done in the Town

of Kippens.

L. EVANS:

Okay, and then how much was

spent on the investigations? How much was spent on outside legal costs?

T. LOMOND:

If it's in relation to that special investigation, we would use our internal

solicitor. The outside costs may be borne by the municipality. Often when

there's something like that, the municipality will seek legal advice from their

own solicitor and sometimes they might have to get an independent investigator

to come in, somebody who is arm's length from the council, to sort of look at

the situation. So that would be a cost that's borne by the council as opposed to

the provincial government.

L. EVANS:

Okay. So was there any

spent?

K. HOWELL:

I don't have any

expenditures on special investigations this year.

L. EVANS:

Okay, perfect.

K. HOWELL:

Because it was an internal

process.

L. EVANS:

Okay.

2.1.02,

Municipal Finance: Is the department currently looking into any new or

alternative models for revenue generation directly by the municipalities?

T. LOMOND:

I guess the new legislation that's coming in is more enabling and will allow

municipalities to look at how they deliver their services. In terms of what they

might undertake, in terms of economic development, what will likely come out in

the

definitions will be more flexibility.

those communities with the capacity to deliver programs and provide those types

of services could use that. It could generate revenue with that increased

flexibility.

L. EVANS:

Why are we spending on

Salaries higher than anticipated last year?

K. HOWELL:

That would be additional

financial support was required for Municipal Finance.

L. EVANS:

2.2.06, Provincial Gas Tax

Revenue Sharing: I'm not sure if this was asked but would you be able to provide

us with a list of the projects funded out of this money?

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

L. EVANS:

I think you asked that, but

I wasn't quite sure because …

2.3.01,

Local Governance and Planning: Are there any communities that have expressed an

interest in relocation in the past year and has the change in the Relocation

Policy in October had any impact on demand?

K. HOWELL:

Right now we have five

communities that have reached out to our department to explore the Relocation

Policy. I can't speak to if the Relocation Policy changes have made that number

go up or down. I'll let the assistant deputy …

B. HANLON:

So, as the minister said, we've had five inquiries in the past year. I've been

there a couple of years and this is the most we've seen in kind of one succinct

period is five. It does seem to have affected the inquiries.

L. EVANS:

Yes, expressed interest.

Municipalities NL has been calling for improvements to civic addressing in rural

areas now for many years. Has there been any progress made by the departments on

this front?

K. HOWELL:

That is certainly something

that we hope to capture in our regionalization plan. It's one of the large

benefits that will be realized if we have a regional government structure in

place and as we chatted about earlier in the week that the delivery of fire and

emergency services will largely benefit from civic addressing. So it is

certainly something that is top of mind and will be a large

part considered in

the regional plan.

L. EVANS:

Thank you.

Is the

department planning on following the 2022 recommendations for the implementation

of regionalization as detailed in the Joint Working Group's report released in

February of this year?

K. HOWELL:

Right now that report is

still undergoing analysis in our department and we thank the Working Group for

the amount of work that they've put into that and the recommendations have come

to government for analysis. And, as I said, we want to make sure that when we're

looking at it we have something that is reasonable and that makes sense for the

province.

So we

are certainly working through that to develop a plan and when we have something

more concrete, I'll be sure to bring that forward to municipalities, Local

Service Districts and all areas that it will be impacted for feedback.

L. EVANS:

Right.

My next

question was about the resources that would need to be allocated. I guess you

would include that in your update.

K. HOWELL:

Yes, that is part of the

conversation as well. We recognize fully that there is going to have to be

supports provided for any implementation of a new regional model. When we have a

plan for that, we will provide the update.

L. EVANS:

Okay, thank you.

Is the

department planning on following staffing allocations for the transition team

recommended by the regionalization report? That is, executive director, a

financial analysist, a policy analysist, administrative support and regional

facilitators.

K. HOWELL:

Again, that is still part of

the ongoing analysis.

L. EVANS:

Okay. I guess your update

would include –

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

L. EVANS:

Has any town or group

approached the department in the past year looking for potential amalgamation or

to implement a regional framework for funding and service delivery?

K. HOWELL:

There are a number of

examples all across the province of communities who are doing a really good job

of regional service sharing and they made great progress on that. With regard to

amalgamation, if that interest exists in a community then they can certainly

come to us but at this point I don't think we have – we have two?

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible.)

K. HOWELL:

Yeah, two communities that

are looking at that progress right now.

L. EVANS:

Okay, thank you.

How

long does it take, on average, for a municipal plan to be reviewed and approved

by the department?

K. HOWELL:

I guess that would depend on

how big the plan is. Some municipalities would have a much smaller plan than

others and the standards would be applied the same. Is there anything that we

can add to that?

B. HANLON:

Yeah, it depends on the complexity of the plan. It is a lengthy process. There

is a lot of consultation that has to happen. There is a lot of detail in every

municipal plan. We could throw out a number like six months to a year but it is

a time-consuming process. It depends on the complexity and the size of the town

and whatnot.

L. EVANS:

Thank you.

Just a

follow-up question: Have you hired any additional planners devoted to municipal

planning in the department?

K. HOWELL:

If you got some, we want

some. The recruitment process is ongoing for planners in the department. We

hired a manager for planning in the last year.

L. EVANS:

Thank you.

2.3.02,

Canada Community-Building Fund: Why was spending on Salaries lower than expected

last year?

K. HOWELL:

There was a vacant manager

position for a portion of the fiscal year.

L. EVANS:

Right.

I know

the question was asked under the

section under Professional, but for Purchased

Services, why was that under budget last year?

K. HOWELL:

The decrease?

L. EVANS:

Yes.

K. HOWELL:

It was lower than

anticipated expenditures related to the development of the Municipal Capital

Asset Management framework. So that's the joint plan that we've been working on

with municipalities to take stock of their capital assets. That's been stalled

over the last year in the TI department, but we have indications that we're

moving forward with that plan now.

L. EVANS:

And, just briefly, what

accounts for the drop in anticipated federal revenue for this year?

K. HOWELL:

That would be the payout of

the COVID stimulus program funding. That was allocated for 2021-22 only.

L. EVANS:

Okay.

Thank

you.

further questions.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

MHA

Wall.

J. WALL:

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Just a

couple of follow-up questions, Minister.

With

respect to the five communities for the relocation. I'm not familiar with that

process; I understand what you explained to me. What is the time frame you're

looking at from start to finish with respect to – I know each case has to be

different, no doubt, more complex – but what would be the time frame that people

would look at? Are you looking at the same time that the regionalization plan

would come out in the next three years?

K. HOWELL:

With regard to the

relocation policy, that's going to be very specific to the community. There are

a number of different levels that will have to be considered so some of those

would take longer than others. I don't have a frame of reference for that. I

don't know if anybody on the panel here can give a more accurate timeline.

T. LOMOND:

I'll defer to Bren on this, but if his question is can it happen within the

three-year timeline of regionalization. The answer is yes. Really, it's around

how quickly communities can come together and decide what their plans are.

There's a vote process that takes place and then there's obviously a process

around determining who's eligible to – who's an actual resident versus a summer

homeowner, that type of thing.

J. WALL:

Okay.

B. HANLON:

And just to add, I guess, the five inquiries we've had – that's not to say

there's five relocations in process. There's been five inquiries from

communities for relocation. Just to clarify, we're not in the middle of doing

five relocations.

J. WALL:

Thank you.

Minister, I want to go back to Municipal Capital Asset Management. I know that

some municipalities are doing it on their own. I'm very proud to say my hometown

and CAO Brian Peach has that underway, but is this something that the department

wants to look at for all municipalities across the province to put in place with

respect to having, you know, as a municipal plan? It has to be in place.

K. HOWELL:

Well, certainly, the

benefits of a Capital Asset Management Plan can be realized in all communities.

Right now, we're not at a stage where we are mandating communities to be part of

that process, but any conversation that they want to have, we're certainly open

to that. I think it makes sense in most of our communities. You know, you want

to make sure you know what you've got to work with.

J. WALL:

Well it's going to save

money in the long run.

K. HOWELL:

Absolutely.

J. WALL:

And is there any plan for

your department to provide support or assistance to municipalities for that?

K. HOWELL:

We haven't got that far on

the discussion yet but …

B. HANLON:

I can just add, the federal government are promoting the Capital Asset

Management Plan and this can be funded through the gas tax or Canada

Community-Building Fund for communities. So we are providing support in that

way.

And,

also, the project that TI is working on will provide sort of a framework and can

provide assistance to communities in the benefits and how to go about doing

Capital Asset Management planning.

J. WALL:

Okay. Thank you.

And,

Minister, the last one. It comes back to town plans. I, being a former mayor,

went through the process. I know how time consuming it is and speaking with

former planner Reg Garland, that's a name from the past, at that time there was

many more in the department.

How

many planners do you have there now? I know each plan is different, no doubt,

because they are more complex with the size of the municipalities. What is the

average turnaround time that your department currently has in approving town

plans?

B. HANLON:

Well, we have three planners and a manager of planning right now. That structure

was changed a bit because we saw the benefit of having a manager in place to

help prioritize things like municipal plans and to make sure the work is

streamlined as much as possible.

could get an average for you but it varies so much on the town plans. I mean, it

really can go from a small town, relatively simple plans, six month-ish to a

year or longer. You are probably familiar with some that have taken longer.

J. WALL:

And I appreciate that. It

does make a difference to the individual municipality with respect to, you know,

their development and what have you.

K. HOWELL:

Moving forward.

J. WALL:

But that's good to hear that

you have a manager plus three planners.

I think

that's all the questions I have, Madam Chair.

Thank

you very much.

CHAIR:

Okay. Thank you.

MHA

Evans, do you have any additional questions?

L. EVANS:

Just a couple. Is the

department considering how to help communities prepare and adapt to the growing

effects of climate change?

K. HOWELL:

Those are conversations that

have been around most municipal tables. Right now, we aren't leading that

conversation. Much of that would come from the Department of Environment and

Climate Change. But any communities that have questions or want to have those

discussions, they certainly occur with our department and our officials.

L. EVANS:

And for this year's budget,

have you taken into consideration some of the impacts of the, I guess we could

call, climate change impact on the weather that's creating a lot of problems

across Canada. Have you taken that into consideration for your budget this year?

K. HOWELL:

Our budget – we do recognize

fully that that impacts communities and that's why we're so pleased that we were

able to maintain all the supports that we offer to communities. They'll be very

much autonomous in how their communities do and deal with those types of things,

specifically to them. But, again, as I mentioned, our department is there for

assistance if there's anything that we can offer.

L. EVANS:

I just had another general

question. We had some discussion earlier on about the boil orders –

K. HOWELL:

Yes.

L. EVANS:

– across the province. Do

you see an increase in THMs impacting the quality of water, the drinking water?

K. HOWELL:

That would be a question

that's better suited for the Department of Environment and Climate Change.

L. EVANS:

Yeah. Okay. It's just where

it's municipalities …

K. HOWELL:

Yeah.

L. EVANS:

No further questions.

CHAIR:

Okay. Thank you.

MHA

Wall?

Okay.

I'll

ask the Clerk to recall the subheading group.

CLERK:

2.1.01 to 2.3.02 inclusive,

Municipal Support.

CHAIR:

Shall 2.1.01 to 2.3.02,

Municipal Support, carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, subheads 2.1.01 through 2.3.02 carried.

CHAIR:

I ask the Clerk to call for

the total.

CLERK:

The total.

CHAIR:

Shall the total carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, total heads, carried.

CHAIR:

Shall I report the Estimates

of the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs carried?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Carried.

motion, Estimates of the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs carried

without amendment.

CHAIR:

The next meeting will be

Wednesday, April 13, at 5:30 p.m. to consider the Estimates of the Department of

Children, Seniors and Social Development, and the Newfoundland and Labrador

Housing Corporation.

Call

for a motion to adjourn.

AN HON. MEMBER:

So moved.

K. HOWELL:

Everybody put their hand up

then.

CHAIR:

The meeting has been

adjourned.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.