Volume XL Thursday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable P.J. McNicholas Number 30 5 May 1988

The House mE!t at 3:00 p.m. MR. SPEAKER (McNichoJ.as): Order, please! Statements by Ministers MR. RIDEOUT : Mr. Speaker·. MR. SPEAKER: l"he han. the Minister of Fisheries . MR. IHDEOUT: .M r~ E! a 1(···~;-r I 0 v (-:1r' t h t~ p a s t d e cad e the Llt:i.lizal"i.on of CE!rta:ln speci.es of shellfish by both recrea·tional and commerclal groups has increased significant:ly. This has posed special health problems since these animals generally grow in coast;~J. and t"i.dal waters IAJhich are subject to pollution and other waste effluents.

Since these molluscs arE! filter f eE!der s, thE!Y t:E!nd to accumulate toxins in the flE!Sh that v..JhE!n E!atE!n may be transmitted to humans. Many of these molluscs are eaten raw or lightly processed and, therefore, cause addiU.onal risk t ·o the consumer. It is essential that adequate procedures are in place to ensure that shellfish offered for· sa1E! to the public :is a safE! and healthy product.

Intermittent outbreaks of shellfish poisoning, most recE!ntly originating from Prince Edward Island waters, clearly demonsl: r·c:~-t--.C::~s l:i'lE! sc.;!ri.ous consequenCE!S of unsafe products r'E:~achi . ng t.:hE:~ rrli:\rketpl.ace. Thi.s t~vent prornptNJ feder·al and provlncial governments to impose additional restrictions on the sale and distribution of molluscs . This over L1552 governrnE!nt has the pllrchase, May 5, 1988 j urisdicU.on processing, VoJ.

XL. sale and distribution of fish within the Province. ·rhe administrative authority is vestE!d in the Minister of Fisheries by the Fish Inspection Act and Regulations (1969) and the Minister of Health undE!r thE! Food and Dr1Jg Act. Under· a1Jt.horoi.ty of the Fish InspectJ.on Act~, t.hE! l..:i . c,~lJt. enan · t-.- - · Governor· i.n Council. may make regulations respecting in-prov i nce fish handling and rnarkeU.ng. This Act., hotAJE!VE!r, does not presently provide regulator·y rE!quirE!rTIE!nt:s sp(~ctftcaJ.J.y for Lhe hc:'lndl.·.i.nq and identification of molluscs.

It i.s, l:hei"E!Fore, n<'!C~~ssary to amEHld thE! fish inspE!Ction rE!guJ.ations to E!nsurE! thai.: adeqtJah'! ht~alth and safety standards are maintained. Th:is amend1nent is consisi ::E:!nt. IAI""Llh requirements of the federal Dt:.~partmE~nt of F:i.sher'iE!S and Oceans with respect to the export and import of shellf:i.sh. The amendments to

Section 16 of t h e f i s h i n s p e c U. o n r E! g u 1 a U. o n s shall read as Follows:

Section 16. l No person sh<3.ll market live clams, rnussE!lS or· other molluscs (except scallops) unlE!SS: A. The minisi:E!r j_s satisfied on thE:~ basts of :i.nformaU .on submittE!d to hirn that the wat.er·s frorn tJJ~dch UH:~ sc.dd shellfish arE~ t:ai<E!n arE! of such a nature as will ensure that the shellfi s h are wholesome. B . T h ~:! s c-~ s p ~~ c i.

E:! s IAJ h <,~ n l.: r· a n s p o r 1:". e d for saJ.e to a pr'OCE!Ssing faciJ:l t y or· sr:·\le!; outl<,~t, ar·e i.n clost~d containers or bags that are tagged to i.nd.i.cc:\l.:e thE! typE:~ of spE!C"iE!S, harVE!Sting si.tE!, dat:.E! harvestE!d and the name of the harvester. c. book Such of No. 30 person a typ<,~ rna :i. n t a ins approv t:.~d a by J.og t h(~ Rl~i~\2

minishH' in tJ.Jhi.cl1 is r<Horded all. species marketed I harvesting site I dc:li:e harvesl::(,~d. t:hE! nall'iE! of Lhe har·vester and th!E! namE! of l:.he buyer if applicable. Mr. Sp(:~aker, I am sal."i.sfi.<:~d thr.d: this arnl'::~ndment to the fish inspection regulatlons will provide improved health and safety m(:~asurE!S · for the consumE!r's of Newfoundland molluscs.

AdditionalJ.y, to . ensure that harvesting sites are adequately tE!Sted, my departrnE!nt has bE!E!n work:i.ng very closely w:i th l:he Env:ironrnE!ntal Prot:e!ct.ion Service of Environment Canada and the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans to expand testing initiatives. In 1988 approx:i.mately 50 iH't:~as thr·ougho1~t the Province have been selected for testing by the Environmental Protection Ser·vic<:~ c'lnd as nE!I.U s :.i. t ~~ s a r' e i. d 1'::~ n 1:: i f "i. ~ ' ! d , 1': h o s ~~ IAii. 11 be inspected as quickly as possible. M r .

S p ~~ a k "~ r , Ud. s g o v (! r n rn E! 1'1 t a n d the Gover·nment of Canada remain fir·ml.y cornmi. t'I.:Hd to ensuring U1at aJ 1 possible safety procedures are :incorporal:c;!d t:o pro·l-.ect: thl'::~ consumer of our shE!llfish products and, indeed, all seafood products. I fE!el confident. that our pres<~nt r'E!gulaU.ons, together IJ.dth these nE!I.U arnendmE!nts that I am announci.ng today, and these in:itiatives wilJ. guarantE!B that consumers will receive only the highest quality seafood products. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H(:H~r. hear! M'R. W. CARTER : Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAI<FR: The hon. for Llt;l)3 May S, 1988 Vol. XL Twi.J.J.Jngate. M R . ~'II . CARTER : Mln. Speaker, I do not think anyonE! can say that more and more stringent regulations are nocessc1ry to pr·op<;!rly pr·ot<,~ct l::hE! consumers of shellfish. We all knoiJJ IAJhat happened J.asl: YE'!ar tJJhc:.~n the industry suffered a vory SI'::WC:~r·e setback because of an incident that occurred on Prince EdtAJi'H'd Island.

I am not surE! !::hat it. was nE! cess a r y for' thE! rrd. n is t E! r to 1·1av<,~ alloiAJC:H:I the ac U.on t.o be taken that was taken in closing down l::he mussel industry on the Northeast Coast, especially becausE:~, at least. I arn l:.oJ.d, thc:,rc:?. is hardly any relationship wha.tE!UE!r to cond:it:lons IAJh~:!re thi::~t ind.dE!nt occurrE!d in P . E . I. and :ln l:he wRh:H'S ar·ound our· coas 1: ... LookJng back I'IOW 1 I th:.i.nk :.i.t. rn:J.ght have bE!E!I'l OUEH'r<,~ac l::i.nq, and I think that kind of overreaction c'o s t our rnu s ~; E! J. ·f<.~ r'ITIC'! r's ,-,. considerable amount of money. M r .

S p E! a k e r· , l.I.H:~ t h i n k t h :i. ~> :i. s a good regulation. We do not see too rnuch wrong tJ.Jith it. On pag~:! 2, CondJ l:.i.on A, the rni.n ·istc;,r says, · thE! rnin:ist:er rnust: be saU.s .fiNI on the:~ basis of .infor·rnat:"i.on submit.I::E!d to hirn that thE! lA.Iaters frorn tJ.Jh:ich the shellfish are taken are of such a naturE! as wiJ.J. E!nStH'e that the shellfish are wholesome. Wel.l, I suppoSE! t.he question t[1at: should bE! askE!d and thE! rrrin:J.st.E!r did not: addr·ess, is, tAJho doc:'s hE! . intend to satisfy n1mse1tr What: type of information will he require?

Who wilJ. be supplying thi.s infor·mation? I prE!surne h~:! :is talking about the condition of the waters in the various bays and coves around our ProvinCE! and :J.n Labrador, and that is a pretty tall order. He does not say here, so rnaybc;! hE! COI.il.d sornet.:i.rne No. 30

elaborate on hotA.J he intends to go about collecting that information. Is there a mechanism in place now that will be used? Is it the Fishing Industry Advisory Board, or some br·anch of the minister 1 s department? Or will he be depending on information supplied by the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans? MR. BAI<ER : They will have to expand their capabil"i.ty . Ml~. W. CART'ER: Yes.

They will have to expand l.:hl':'··i.r· capabil.H:y, bc,1causE~ my impression of that particular branch is that 'l:hey <.-H'C:~ not: capabJ.e of doing that which thE~y arE~ mandat:c,~d to do now, 1r11~ch lE: ~s s take on the added responsibility of test .i.ng thE:! t•.Jr.lt.er·s aro1Jnd OIJr coastl:ine, of coursE~, and in Labrador. Mr. Sp~;:1aker, therc,1 is not too much else we can say about this. As I said before, obviously the consumer must be protE!CtE!d. We do not want a recurrence of what happened last year in P. E. I.

Too many such incidents could very well ruin thE! mt~ssel industry, and we all knotAJ l:hat . it is notAJ becoming a very lucrative industry. In fact, in my own district there are a number of rnu s s c,1l far· me;! r s IAJho cil ppt:1iH' to be doing very well and have good pot: E~n t_j_~\l.. ~3o I CC:!l~ La .J. nly I~JouJ.c:l not t/Jan L anything l:o happE! n that: · would t rnpodE:' UH~ 'i.r ~~JOI"k, bc:!C<.HI!>n j t . :is, as I said,- a uer·y important tndust:ry .- Mr. SpE!c::\kE!_r, wi.th thc;!SF.! few reSE:1rva-l : ions, W<c1 support this S t cl 1: C:HriE:Hl t . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Heal~, hE!ar!

LIS 54· May 5, 1988 Vol XL. MR. LONG : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the m"!ITiber' for St. Joh11 1 s East. MR . LONG : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . WE! also lAJelcornc;! th~: ~ in:i.t:i.at::-.i . vc::~ by thE! rninist.E!r and sug~)est. Lhat, ind c;!E:1.d, l:his "i.s dl'l :i.ni.t.:i.at: :ivE~ Lhal: has bE!Bn caJ.led for for some t.i.rne i_ n t: h c;! a b ~' E! n c E! of s 11 c h rE~guJ.at.ions. S:lrn:i.lar to th e mt::1Jnb(~r· fo1" TIAJ:i.J.J.j_nCJi.'l'I'·_E:1, l had solrtf'' concerns about how the minister IAJ'i.l J. l:w f>r' o ~~ ·i. de d :i. n f' cH' rna t. :ion .

A s I anticipa-l:E!d, he said, lAJhE!I1 thE! m<:1mb<H' 1~1as spea!d .ng, t.hc:·1l~ :it. l)_J<wld be through 1:ht'! Envir·onrnenta] Pr·oi:E:!ct.·i.on ~1E'!r'v :ic c,'. Bu L then, -LI1 thE! SE!Cond last paragraph, ho say s :i n r:~ 11 :i 1 n p o r' t. a 11 t: IAI a y t: h a t. t h E! EnvironiTIE!nt.aJ. ProtE!C-l::i.on S E•I"V:i. c e wil.l expand to fif t y sites for tElSting this SurmnE!r.

I would s1Jggest to l~he m:i.n:isl:er l:.hat .it would bE~ nE! c E~ s s ary, to E! n s ur·e the~ t the regulations cov e r every possible event.uaJ.ity, that all a r e a s IAJ h lH' P rn u s s E~ 1 s a n d o t. h e r shellfish arE! bEd.ng farmE~d bE:! tested, because otherwise it is not going to bE~ - i:'l fuJ.J.y compr·ehensiue pr·og .ra1nrne. With t.he t.hcd: :i.n rn:ind, I would say to rni.nister th<:lt. I th:.lnk the on l·: hE:1 st:.atE~rnC'!nl:. 1s directed toward t.hE!

COI'lSUIIIUr' and the COnSUHIE!r that: tho -L n d 1.1 s 1: r· y -L n l:. h :i. s c,11 n p h a s :i. s properly prol :E:1Cl-. i.ng guaranteEd.ng sheJ.J.f t :;h Province rc,1guJ.;'\tod wil1 be gouer'nE~d c:1ncl pr'OPC'!rl.y. '( t.h:i. nk t:h~~ rntn ·i.st:c'!r' must: also, oF course, takE! carE:! to pi" OtE~ct. the p r· o d u c E:1 r· . T h E~ p E:1 o p l E:• lAJ h o a r·· E:! o u t thelre dE!VE!1oping a VE~ry 'irnport.ant.: and · di':1VE!lopi .ng :i.ndusi::r·y rH~Hd to bE! No. 30 R1S~i4-

sure, Mr. Speakt~r. thr.\t ·thi.s programme' is not going to in any tAiclY j ~wpa1"cHL0. Lhl'dr abiJ.i t.y to develop the industry further. So 1 tJJ o u 1. d h o p <c~ UlE! s e r· <c~ g u J. a t-. i. o n s would be clearly spelled out to a 1 l. p r o d u c or· s .i. 11 l h e P r o tJ i . n c c~ a n d any difficulties that might arise, such i:'lS the Envtronrnental. Protection Service 1 s ability to moni.tor, · Lhe mini.s~er w.ll.l have flexibility in the programme to tJJor·k that ou l: IAJ'.ith l:h<"' produc<,~rs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: Before calJ.ing for Oral questions, I would like to welcome to the Speaker 1 s gallery tl.uo for·mer members of this han. House, Mr . Steve Neary and Mr. Graham Flight . SOME HON. MEMBERS: He,ar, hear! Oral Questions ~.B...:....E I< E R : Mr. Sp~~akE!r . M R . S P E A K E R :· The:~ hon. the member for Gander. MR. BAKER: Thank you. Mr·. SpeakE~r . I hi~ v ~~ a q u <,~ s t:. :1 on for· l.: he P r· <,~ m:i. ~~ r· conc<·>.r·ning the rights of civil servants to fully participate in th~~ electoral process. I know that the governmenL has signed agrE!eri'IE:Hlt.S tJJit:.h thE!

NTA · which include a cJ.ause covering this matter. I know from what I haVE! heard that ~th~r unions have brought up thE' point and wilJ. probably be negot.iat'i .ng cJ.auses to cover this matter . I am concerned now about non-union employE!E!S. pr.lrt:ictllarly sen:i.or . l,lSSS May 5, 1988 Vol XL. c i.v:i.l s<.;!rvants. Would the Pr<:Hn:i.E!r give the House a brief

summary of l: he r u J. e s and r· e g u 1 at :ions t: h a t n ot~J exist regarding the senior civil sortJNnts, non · ·Un:ion p~H)pJ.~~. participating in nominations for political parties ~nd so on? MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Premier . PREMIER PECKFORD: T 1.~1a s j u s t.: t r y t n g 1:'. o I"(,~ c a 11 dE,tails as thE! hon. mE•rtlbE!r spoi<E!. This matter has b~:,en und~H· r'E!V'i(~IAI by government now for Lhe last three or Four months. We are trying to dE!Velop a fa:lr cHid reasonable policy on it . I am not. surE! off the top of my hE,ad whether we finalized it all.

I know we haVE! gonE' through a lot of it as it relates to at what le,vel. I th:Lnk we ar' E! st::i.11 tr·y~'i.ng to dE,ci.dc,~ tAJhat ].(;!Vt.d, whether management or executive, i. s i. n v o 1. v E! d i. n 1: h (~ g o ~~ E! r· n rn E! n t process. So I think that is where we are right now and WP are trying to dE!Cide on. a nE!W poli.cy on it. . I can geL perhaps more information for thE! hon. member in l::hE' next f f.HAI h o u r ~; . B 1 11:. j_ t h r:\ s b e (~ n r·eviE!l.IJed just rE,centJ.y by CabinEd.: c1nd IAI8 ar·e l':ry:i.ng t:o Co!SI::abl:.i.sh a new policy on it ~ MR. BAKER: Mr. Sp(:~al<er . MR.

SPEAKER : A sup p J. E!l'ne n tar y • the han. thE• member For Gander . M ~ . .:.._ B A.!S_!~ R: CouJ.d the Premier indicate the rul.es and r~~gulaU.ons under tAih.ich you have bE,en opE!J"aU.ng? I think of the Dr. Fagan case in the Waterford Kenmount bye,J.ecU .on si.tuation. Ther·e tAJer·e ru1es and regulati~ns in existence at the t i tn e • a n d t h d t o n c,~ · p a r t: o f t i·H:! s e No. 30 RlSI)S

rules and regulations dealt with discretionary reinstatement: Can the Premier recall at whose discretion is this discretionary rE:d.ns tate:1ment? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I.c.annot recall. I do not. have the rE!gulat:ions h~H·e before me. I have to gE!t thE!Tn and go thr·ough them just to see who has the discretion. So I have to take that under Advisement.

But we are trying to develop a new set of rules and regulations dealing with ~his, and t think they are just about r·eady to go. fht~ rni.n·i.st:E!Y' or· mysolf may l·mtH! n101"e to say about that in thE! next F E~I~J do";\ y s be c au s p I~Je h <:·l v 0 • r t: h :J. 11 k • gone about 90 or 95 per cent i~OIIJiH'dS dt:'Vel.op i.ng d I'WIAJ pol.·:i.cy. MR. BAI<ER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. MR. BAKER: I would like to inform the Premier that the Minister of Education (Mr. Hearn) dealt IJ.Jil:h it from his point of view in the Estimates Committee, yc,1sterday T. bHlievc.;! it IIJas. It.

IAJas ned: at his d :i. s c r' e t i. o n , a n d t h a t i s w h y T IAii:t s asking that question. I would Jike to ask would the Premier, in his review of the rules and regulations, take into accounl the position of ~he I. ibc,1ral Party, 1..vhich is that aLl C i. V i. l S ~H' V <:\ 1'1 ·1·: S ~H~ g i. V EHl l. (~ ;'llJ 0 ~; 0 f absence to fully partake in the e:1 l. e c: 1·.: o r· d 1 p r o c c,~ s ~; s o t h a t: t h E! y have IAihat IAIE! fE!E!l ar'E! theil~ cornpl.E:!l:E! r·.i.ght.:s? L1556 May 5, 1988 Vol XI... · MR. SPEAKF.R: The hon. the Premier .

PREMIER PECKFORD: WeJ.l, I think WE! have already taken that under considE!raU.on. I think i:hE~ Liber·al Party is a bit late in putting it on the Table of the House right now. It :is not a I1E!W idea, It is not something that aJ.ong in thE! hist.o1~y of . It:. hr.ls bE!(i!l'l so1nE~lh:-i.nq been talked about jur·"isdJct."i.ons for· d long time. MR . SIMMONS: The Premier got leave . PREMIER PECKFORD: Do ·. I hear SOITIE!thing lfl (~ m b Co' I"? MR.

SIMMONS: you k noL~J. j IJ s t: c i·'une the rau!. l.:hat: has by rnany P<'!Y'iod of from thE• The Pre!Tn:iE!r got lE!ave fr·orn rne 1972. :i.n PREMIER PECKFORD: 0 h , y E~ s . F r om t h E! s c h.o o 1 b o a r· d a t the time. I think othE!rS haVE! too. · I think quil:c,~ a felAJ Jni':.HilbE!r's have gotten it aver the years, yes. Nothing VEH'Y ne1..1.1 about that. That is. not nE•w. 0 b v :.lou s 1 y , 1~1 e a r· e con s :i. d e r· i n g t he whole f)olicy as it. has to do l,o..dth public servants being allowed to participate, take a leave of atlSE!nce and r.ll.J. . thc,1 rest of i.t.

So I sa:id, that policy is just d b 0 1J 1:: C 0 ITI p l. C:1 1:. Ed y d Ei! V E! 1 0 p EH~ . I l: then just becomes a question of how fi'lr' you l:Hkc~ i.t, I~Jhc'!th(H' you take it all the way to doputy ministors, assistant deputy ministers, management people who ar·f~ -Ln pos:i.L:ions or- pol.Jcy making and so on, and that is what we are t:ry:i.ng to resolve r"i.ght now. MR. BAKER: No. 30 ' R15~i6 ..

Will it be completed soon? PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes, very soon, ext.rernoly soon. ~R. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker·. MR. SPEAKFR : The hor1 . thE:~ member fol" Port de Gr·r:~ ll E:). Ml~. EFFORD : Hi-cHii("iot:J," M I" . S pea k E:1 r . My q1H:1st. i.on is to Lhe M·:i.n.istE!I" of Social ServicE!S (Mr. Tobin), and it is concerning another recent ruling by the provincial court that affects young offenders. Recently Judge Foi.I.Jler ruled that the Young Offenders Review Board was unconstitutional. In reply to qUE!SI~ioning, the;!

MJ.n:i.sbH' of Justice (Ms Verge) said very clearly that while the case was bef6re the Supreme Court young ofFenders 1 cases could be hec3.rd in the Provincial Court. Now Judge Wicks has ruled that Cdses c:anno t-. be h~~ard befor'E! the~ Provincia] Court , I wo u 1 d 1 i k e to ask the Minister of Social Servj ces IAJhat does hE! proposcc) to do to protor;t th(~ rights of t.hes~~ young offenders? MR. SPEAI<ER : Thcc1 hon. the~ Mjnister of Social Se:1rvi.CE!S. MR. TOBIN: Mr;-.--Speak<,1r, dE! par tmE!n t and Just. :ice a r· E! now that ver·y issue. MR. EFFORD: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAK~~: .

A supplementary, offlc:idls Ln my the department of meeting to discuss the han. member l.l557 Mi..~y 5, 19138 Vol XL for Port de Grave. MR. EFFORD: Mr. Spc,H:lkC::1r, t.hal: ts l::hE! same~ anSIAJer that Uw rn.inistnr gave JTJE! sev~1ral t.~oJC::H~ks r:~go, thcd :: l: hey 1 ar·e meeting to discuss. 1 I ask imrnE!d:iately C011SE:1J'll-. of legislation Cour :t cr;~n protect thE! off~~ndE!Y'S, delay? IAJ:'J. J.J. 1:. h E! SeE!k thE! i·.his Houso s o t 11 a t. UlE! rni n·.i s t.e r' unantrn<.)lJS l: o enNct: Provinc-ial hear these cases and r·ights of thE!SE! youn~J without any further SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon . HH,~ Minist:C:H' of Social Services . M!I . .:.._lOBIN: Mr. Sp~~akE!r', th~:! D~~paJhl:rnE!nt. of Social ServicE!S and the DE!partrnE!nt. of Just . .i.co arE! looking al.: t:he mc:lttE!r. They arE! discussing thE! issue and they wiJ .l be dealing with it. I would suggest that if any of the ll':)gc.~J. · people fE!el that they need any advice from the hon. gentleman he .will be contclc:ted . MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, final supplementary . MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the han, rn ~=! 111 b 1:1 r f o r .P o r' l~ d 1:1 G r· c:\ tJ e . MR. EFFORD: Mr·.

SpeakE!r, T. dsk t:h~) Mi noi.sl::er of SociaJ. ServiCE!S, if he wants to get d OIAJJ'l ln that way , ·is J t possible that the dE!lay, as it I..V<:'I.S l.ast yc;!ar, "is to keE!p the Young Offenders Review Board togE!thE!r so that he can pay out. th~~ salar;:i.E!S, the $70,000, and his conce1hn J.ios there, not IAJii::h the young offenders whose rights should be No . 3 0 Rl 1)5'7

pr·otected? They should not be h e l. d 'i. n c 1.1 s 1': o d y , UH,d r c a s c,~ s should be immediately heard. Will the minister admit that is the reason for thls, to try and keep the board togethE!r' so that hE! can pay his pol.it.J.cal buddies? MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Minister of Social Services . MR. TOBIN: Mr. SpE!aker, obviously if sornE!~wdy else sa.id that · you IAJOidd tal<<:~ exception to it, but coming from t h e h o n . g c,~ n t. 1 c;! rna n I IAI .i. ll t: r· <:~ 61 t. -L t the way most people treat the hon. gentleman, as a joke. MR. SPEAKER : T-he:~ ho ~tJie Jnt:Hnbc~ r for St .

John 1 !; i: Cl s t . MR. LONG: M r· . S p o a I< e:~ r , tn y q 11 c,1 s 1·. i. on ·t-. o d r.-1 y "i !; fo1" tl·w PI"<·Hnier· and :it concer·ns a V EH' y :i. HI fHH' i:. cHl l: "i. ~; S U 0 i'. 0 l: h (,' p (;!{) p 1. P. of the-:> city of Si: .. John 1 s . It f o ll o IAJ s o n a 1-n-i. n i. s t <~ r i. d l. s t. a t EHn (! n t the Premier presented last week concerntng cln initiative by the government which he was very proud of -i.n f.i p(~rsonal way, proh>.ct"i.ng the Newman Building.

With reference to l~he 0 1 Owy er Bloc I< on WatE!r StrE!Ot, wh:i.ch :i.s scheduled for demolit .i.on, I ask would l:.he Premier, in like fashion to the v~H'Y positive,~ :initiati .ve the government took to protect the Newman Building, have government consider taking an initiative to asstst l:.he c-Ll:y :i.ndC!E!d, thc,1 federal government, have already i.dent"i.f-Lc;!d i·.:hE! 0 1 DI.~Jyc'!r' Block as a national h:istod .c d:istrict- takE:1 a c t -L o n l~ o p r' o ·1 ... E! c t t h t s s J. g n t F i. c; '"' n i: hj stol"ic par·t of thee~ dm~.mtown fr·om d t! ITIO l. i. L ··i. 0 l'l ? M f~ . .

S P'E A K F R : May S, 1988 Vol XL The hon . the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: T do not. knOIAJ, Mr . SpedinH', I hau~?. not got thE! detaiJ.s !1E!rE!. As far .~sT. knoiAJ fr·om I'H~lAJS rr:1ports :i.l:. ·is bE!ing dE!al t IA.Ii th now by thE! c:i t.y and the Hrts gr·oups that ar·e involved. I honestly do not l<notAJ because I do not have the details, and I would not be so presumptuous as to make a decision baSE!d upon scanty information. MR. LONG : A supplementary, Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A SIJpplementary, thE! hon . · UlE! member for Sl·: . John 1 s F.c:·u; t. MR. LONG : T ;:~ppr · oci. c:~tr~, Mr· .

Sp~:!cll<~:!r, t:hE! Pr'E!rrr.ier· may not have thE! dEd:ails. Thc,1 MtnJ.s+ .: E:!r' or Cult.IJI"f'!, RE!CY'E!at:. ion and Youth (Min. BuLl : ) is p E~ r• hi:~ p !i I rl 0 I" E! (-- a I rl J. l . i c1 Y' IAJ '.'i. r. h :i. 1·: , b U l:: he is not here today. But I would s c:~ y t: o 1.: h o P r· f:! m .i. (~ r· '1:. h d t t h -L ~; i ~; a very critical situation at this rnornf~nt, t~Jh:i.ch sr:~c;! s l::hf'! Mayor· and Deputy- ·Mayor fighting a faJrly hc,H'O-i.C bar.tl.c, SOITICo1 IAIOU}d say, on City Council against thE! member for Waterford-Kenmount (Mr.

Gullage) and othE!rs, includJ.ng thE! member representtng my own ward on council, who want to SE!E! this area, which has been declared a national hisl:.oric dis t rict, d <->. mo 1 ~f. s h ~>. d . My s 11 p p 1. emf~ n tar· y I~ o l .. h f~ P I" o rn i. 1;:! r would be, in light of the i rd t. i. d '1'. .i v c,, i: h a t L h "! g o v (':! r· n ITH~ n t took at his own personal :i.nvolvf:!I' Tif~nl-., T. guc;!~;s, IAJoul.d l::hE!

PremJ.er give consideration to J.ook:ing 1norr~ closely ;:~t what. -i.s happenJ.ng in a very current way tu"i.th Lh·i.s :i.~;s11e, <.'l nd cons.idE!Y' l::he Pr·ovinCE!' s abiLity to t·.al<e acti.on l·: o i:-l s s ·i. ~; 1:. 1':. h r:! C :i. l": y t n p I" o t E! c 1·: -L n g No. 30 R1558

the site on Water Street? MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the Prenr.iE!r. PREMIER PECKFORD: I am sure~ t:hat: t:hE! arts grotJp~; and the City Council is aware that the prov:i.nc Lal gov(~rnrnent :J.s hE!r'c-:l. When it is appropriate, no doubt t. h (:1 y 1.~11 . l. l b e a p p 1~ o a c h :i. n g 1.1 s , o r· tal king to us about it. So, I t~li.J.l. l'.ctko +:hr,1 hon. mc,1rni:HH'S suggestjon seriously and ptH'SUE! it IAri. U·1 1:. h e m i. rd s 1 ... e r , r:'IJ'l d IAJ f:! 1~11. l l just wait and see what happens b<::1t:wet:Hl i:hE:~ groups l:hctt •H'H l'iOiAi tnuolvc,HJ in i -1:. MR. LONG: A final supplementary, Mr.

Speaker . M R_. S PEA I< ~:.R : A final supplementary. MR. LONG: I j u s t. lAJa n t: E! d to s a y t. o t h r,~ Premier, by way of a final suppJ.ementary, say that th(:H'C'! i .s a v e r y s i g n i f i c a 1ft. o p p o r t u n :i t y h e r E! t o s t'! n d a s -i. g n c.~ l t o 1·. h ,,1 community. This weekend the He:1ri. tag(:1 - MR. SPEAKFR: Ordc~r, pJc,1aSE!! Th :i.s is a final suppJ ernE:H1tary. ~-· _L..ONQ: Cornrni t: l·:o<::1 ·1. ~; rnc'! E! ~- .i. n g -i. n C'.it·y, and :r would say that +·. i.1ni.ng · SOME HON. MEMBERS : As I< t.he q1H1stion! MR. SPEAKER: Or•der, ph1ase! MR.

LONG: Wo U ld-.. -t:. hE! undertaking, PrE!rniE!r IAJi 1::h:i.n considE!r t.'h C:1 1'1 E! X t I·: he t. h (:1 an day L1 S~9 May 5, 1988 Vo1 XL or so, to rneei: with tl1e,1 Min :ister and perhaps make a statement on behalf of the government, as a point of intervention in a situatlon that Ls developing day by day, as a positive signal to the hc~r·it;:~gt:~ COITJrnLJn:i.l:y of t:hE! ProvinCE!? MR. SPEA.I<ER: Thc,1 hon. t:h0 Pr'E!I'rJ i.t:~r .

PREMIFR PECI<FORD: Well, I IAJould haVE! t.o gE!J.: all UH~ :i.nfor'ITI<.·d·.-.i.on. l do nol:: knoiAI if. :i.ntE!rven'lion is IAJarr·antr:!d at th:i.s t ·i.mo, bE!Caust: 1 :i.l .: '.i.s b(:~'i.ng df~alt tAJith at thE! rnun:i.cipaJ. lE!Vel . l IAJ -i. ll u n d (?. r· 1': d I< C~! 1:: o b ~~ c ornE! · f c." rn J. J.·i a r· ~ith this and to taJ.k to the rnintster about it and just see lAihE!re it goes aftE!r that. As tAlE! cUd 1~1 ... lth the Nc.;!IAII'rlt.Hl Btri. ldJ.ng , I.~Je ar·e very intE!rest:E!d in PI"E!Serv:i.ng, IAI h (.;! r• (:~ IAI e C d n , h :i S t. 0 r J. C pIn 0 p (;! r 1:. i E!

S and buiJ.ding around thE! Pr·ou:inCE!. If t. h :i. S is o l'l H , IAIC:1l.l , l: h fHl I 9 U e S s we lAI:i.ll hau e to gE!t: i nvol u E!d thE! r· e . But IAIE! lAd 11. h au c;! t: o g e t. all the facts of the rnatl:er to I< nOW j U S t (?.X a C 1': l y IAJ h (:;( t. 'iS happE!ning, because, as thE! han . rnc~rnber· lri.rnsel.f rE!a1:i.z.c,1s , IJP to this point in time it has been b (:1 l:.IAHHHl C: 0 U J'l C :i.J. JHl d · 0 t: he r• 9 r· 0 U p S in tht:~ cormnuni·t:y IAiho ar' E! E!a~JE!I~ t:.o s a f E~ g u ~ I" d 1:: h :1 s p r· o p c,~ r· t: y . B u t I d o appreciate thE:1 hon.

ITIE!rnber· :is corn'i.ng .:"~ : l·:hr,1 :i.ss11r:! fr·orn <:l SE!r·J.ous and lE!gitimat:.c'! point of uJE~lAJ. I .::~ p pI" r~ c ·i <.·1 1: r~ t: hat . H ·i. s con c E! r· n For· l:.hc,1 hc~r·it.agE:~ ar·c,'a of l:hE:! c:ity :i~; IAHdl kno1~m, I apprc,1ci.a 1:(;! -L t. and understand IAihere he is com:ing from ctnd I will talk l:o the rninister about i t . Q u i t e 1 i k E! l y i t :i. s a n 'i.ssue IAJh'i.ch lflclY ~~n1al~qc,1 and, therE!fore, involVE! thE! Pr·ouinCE! . and IAie IArill have;! to taku a har·d lool< at it. I apprE!CiatE! lhe hon . rnember 1 s concern. MR. DECKER: No. 30 RlSS9

Mr. Spodkr~r . MR. 3PEAKI~_B.: The hon. the,~ membE!r' for the Strat t of Bc,1ll.~:! tsl.c;!. MR. DECKJR: My question ts for· the hon. the Mini.s-I:.E!r of Educat. i.on (Mr. Hr:1clrn), Mr. Speaker. The minister will knotAI, T am SIH'e, ~~bout the~ concerns about school bus safety t:ht~oughout l:he Pt"OV'incc,1, in sp·Jte of the rigorous inspE!Ction policy wh:i.ch I think thH minister would haVE! USE!d as an answer if I had not cut him off on it.

But in spite of these rigorous inspection policiE:1S, the mird .ster, no doubt, i.s famil. ·i.ar tAli.th thi.s r·r:'port. on school buses u.1hich was j u s t ·. r· r:1 c c;! n t l. y p , .. c:q:> a n:~ d ·f o r T r· t~ a s u r y B o a r· d . I a s k t h E! rn i. n i. s h:H' wou l.d hE! b~'! pn~ pd r·Hd today to table a copy of that l"E!por·t: so tho hon. HoiiSf'! c.1nd the peopJe of Neu.~oundland can see j 1 1 s t. t•J hi.·\ 1: 1·.: h ~~ p r· o b 1. o 1 rt s r.1 r o IAl :i. l: h school bus safety? MR. SPFAI<ER: The h on·. tho Minis 't:c:! r· of F.: d u c a 1·. i. on . MR. HEARN: Ml".

Speakr:1r, the issue of school bus safety has br:H~n one that has been with us for quite some time. Just a yc,1iH' or so ago, our department, in conjunction with l: h e . D E! p a r· t rrHHl t o f T r· a n s p o r t a t. i o n , arranged to hire school bus inspectors tAlho iH'(:! rc:!~>P<Hls·oi.b1E! for nothing else except the inspection of school buse,1s. They car·ry 0111: a very r·igor·ous inspection.

School bUSE!S i':H'E! rJOIAI :i.nspec ·i·.r:!d thr•ee times a YE!ar, but along u.rith that, quite ofl:en the inspectors, who cover the whole island, pull in l:hE! bt.tsns, chc,~ck th~Hrl r'\-1-. ·Lhn roadside, in garages, or wha hw E~r. So the s df C:! l·:y of H1e L 1 ~60 May 5, 1988 · VoT XL b11~; i.!; C:!nSt.trr~d r.O lh(:! best of anyone's ability. Along with that., bE!CaUSE!

IAIE:' knoiAI hOIAl i.mpor·tant. 'i.l-. .1.~; to pr·ovick! a safe transportat:i.on systE!m, tAle <:lrE! goi. ng Furt.he~r t:hdn t:h·i. s noiAJ uri. th some ideas and we are in the process of checking and working tJJith ot11E!r agE!ncies of goVE!rnrrtE!nt in develop"i.ng t'WtAI pol .. i.c:i . r:~s. !Aihen we get thern developed, we will certainly make the~ hon. g~H1Lle1nan and E!Verybody elSE! u.JeJ.J. c~IAlcltne of what we intend to do. S0~1E HON. MEM~_I~B_.§. : Hear, hE!ar! MR. DECKER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: A supplE!mE!ntar·y, thE! hon . t:.he lflf'!t'flb(:!Y' fol" t.hf~ ~)tr·r:\ i.l ... of BPll.r"! IsJ.e. t1f-. DECKER: . Thr;! hon. IIt-i.n:i.stnl" just iAdll. not: take adviCE!. I t:.oJ.d him not to gi. tJC'! lfH:1 Uri.s i.nfot'rrti.·\t.ion r:-~bout: !::hE! inspection policy, we I< notAl the ·.i.nspect"i.on policy. Obv.:i.ously, l::he answer to rny qtJestton is no, hE! IAli.ll. not. tab l. ~?. the t' E:1 p or t . So 1 w.i.l.l as I< hJ.rn now :i. f i'H'! IAI'.'.i.ll tell us something about the re~por·t.

Wtl.l the,~ rn:inist(~r·, tAlho refuses to table the report obv:lousl.y hE! ts hid·ing sornc~thing, I do not know what it is tE•11 the House whether or not this report confirms that there are problems with school bus ~afety, or is eVE!ryth:ing pE!rfect.? Is thE! r·e,1 no pr·obl ('!l'n IAI'i.l:: h ~; c hoo l bus safety? MR. SPEAKER: r h (~ h on . t: h 0 M-i. n J. ~' 1·. ~~ r· o-f F d 11 cation . MR. HF.:ARN: No. 30 rn 560

Mr. Speaker, if thr:H'e lAI~H'E! no problems with our school bus s:i.tuat..ion, we IAJoul.d not. have come up with the report recommending improvements and changes. MR. DECKER: A final supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A tinRl supplementary, the han. the member for the Strait of Belle Is l. e. MR. DECKF.f<: At--J E?.ast-- h(;! fj ml] J.y admJ ts that t. l'lC~!Y'C.~ 'i.~; t:l ln~:~por1 : , Mr'. Spr-:1i:\I<Ot'. T '"'as not: per·fectly sur(-?. LhE!rE:~ Wets OI'H~.

The Department of Fducation, the rrrJ n:i.ster· will knoiAI, has a policy ·. to accG:~pL t.hl':~ l.OIAJ(-?.St. hHld("1r for· school bus contracts. ·wouJ.d thE! mlnister not agree Lhat this pol·.icy encourages, and I would e v E! n g o s o fa r· a s 1:". o s a y f o r· c e s and compels contractor·s to buy cheap, old, secondhand buses in order to be competitive with their tenders? Would the minister not agr·ee that this poJ.icy encourages them to buy those old buses ln order to . be competitive?

P o t e n t "i. a 11 y , Q u e b e c 1 s s c r a p y a r• d s could become the main supplier for N("1wfo1Hldl.and school. buHes. MR . SPEAKF:R : The hon. the M:lnist.er of EducaU .o n . MR . HEARN: M r· . S pea k E:11~ , :r am s IH' E:~ o rw of 1: he for'lfi("H' l.c~ad(;!rs or· t.ho pc:H'I:y, 1~1ho "is h("1re todrlY . in thE:~ gall.E:~ry, :is wondering what happened to t he nice, sweet gentleman from the St.:r'c'li.L of B(;!l.1f~ lsl.<,1. l am 1/JOI'Ider:ing if he has vist:ed his di.sl:. r·ic:t re:'CE!nt:ly c:~nd IAidS bi.t.

LE!I1 by a fox or· something, bE!Cause he has chang(,~d. 1..1561 May 5, 19 8 B · Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HEARN: Hot~.Jever, to anSIAJer· hoi.s qUE!St.ion, the prE!Sent policy u.Je USE!, as '"'e use ln anything, is The Public Tendering Act, which rE!quirE!S ti'H~t we accept the lowest: tender, within, of course, CE!r·t:ain rules and r'E!gUJ.Rt-J.ons, and exc0~pi:: i.ons ..-i.f things arE! way out of 1 oi. ne.

Howe~ u E! r· , p c,1 r· hap~; ·i. 1-. do f'! s ~'!nco 1.11" ct g E! people to buy cheaper· mach:i.I'IE:'I"Y, but I~Jhi'li: IAJO hr:Wr~ t:O be aSSI .II"(;!c:l Of is that IAJhat:.E:~ver bus goe:~s on LhE! r· o r:~ d , 111 h f~ t h f'! I" i t: -i. ~; ;:~ y f'! r:'l r· o .l. d , whE!ther· it is ten yE:~iH'S old, or· whe,i:he:~r "i.L i.s br·and ne1.-~1, Lh r:~t: l:: hEtL bus has gone through a rigorous :i.nspE~c:'L"i.on r.lnd .is a safe:~ VE!hic1f~ to carry students to school.

If IAJe d:i.d not dCCf:q::JI:: t.h(;! l.OIAJE!S1: tender they would be the very f:Lr·st l::o acc1.1se us of not. bl.'.~:i.ng p r u d E! n t i n w h a t 1..11 e d o . S a f Ed~ y i n l::he sysi": f~ITI "i.s Lhf~ i<E:'Y cornponE!I"'t, a n d t h. at i s the . rea s o n why IAJ e <H· (! working with Treasury Board, the Department of Transportation and other· t~genci.c-:!s, to make SUI"<'' IAJe continue' to improve transportat:ion in the ProvJ .nce. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. W. CARTER: Mr. SFH~ai<(,H'. MR. SPEAI<ER : rhA hon. For TwiJ lingatE! . MR. W. CARTER: M r· .

S p 0. a I< E! r· , rn y q 1.1 r-~ s 1:: "i. o n · i. s 1:: o t. h E! Minister of Fisher:les (Mr. Roi.dc-?.out:), ln FE!br'udr'y, whf:!n a delegation visited Japan to negoti.ate a pr"i.ce for capl.Ln, I think they got an assuranCE! from the Japanese importer s that agreements on quantity and price No. 30 Rl561

for this year would be in place no l.a'I-.E!r than l:he E!nd oF M;.-n·ch. 1\JOIAJ, thco~ m:inis'l::EH' h'.i.rnse]f stal.E!d, IAJhen he camo bHck, I br~l-i.r~lJc,~. ·t:hH·L ce1"tcd nly IAJe nE!ed tiAJO or· three rnonl·:hs nol.::i.cc;!, two or thrrH~ 1nonLhs j n advance of the-:'! opening of the f .i. S h 0 r• y , S 0 t: h E1 t e V 0 In 1j b 0 d 1j C i.-\ 11 p 1 rtrl a c c o r d i n g 1 y . Y e s t e r· day , o n The Fishermen's Broadcast, the rnirdst(:H' expressed some concE!rn that to date there has been no pr:ice E!StabLished. I IAJondE!r :if t:. he rni n is t. e r i}JO u 1 d t e 11 t h C.;! House , Mr.

Speai<E!r, what time hE! expects t.here t.o be:~ a pr·icE:~ c,1st.abl :i.shed. given thE! fact that Japan is pretty well the only buyer and that thE! ca.plin fishe!ry is rap:idJ.y approaching. MR. SPE.AKER : The hon . the Minister of Fisheries . MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. ~:JpeakE:!r, f:il"st of all lE:1t ITIE:! j 1.1 ~; t llld kf~ a Y' (:HrliH' k CH' t:.IAJO 0 n t: h li:1 hon . gen ·t.J E!ITiiHI' s pr'C:H:lrnb1E!.

It cc;!rt .ainly has beE!n l'.he posi.t "i.on oF th'is govc-:'!l"nrnent., and of rnySE!1.f as Mini.sh,1r of Fishr,1rir~s, UJal~ "i.·l·: "i.s j n the best inte1nest of the caplin fishery of Newfoundland anrl l..r.II:H'i.H~or thi'l t a f i.rlll pr·i .cH and fj nn tonnagc-:'!s be-:'! negot~.ated as c;!arl.y ;~s pos si. bl.e IAJ "i. th I'. he JapanE:!SE~.

Myself, on b(:1half of thE! government and representati.ves of thE! industry, and IAJhen I say thE! i. n d u s 1: r y I mE! a n l:: he pro c e s s <H' s a n d ti'IE! unions , rna de that p o s :it ion extremely clear to the Japanese when we had a trade mission to Japan a few months Rgo. S"i.ncc;! that t:i.rnE! thE!I"e haVE! boE~n r.1 couplE! of SE!riE!S of rwgotiations. fhe ·i.ndus tr·y peopl.P IAJE!r'e .i.n Japan a wcc1ek or· l:.en days ago to continue IAJ i. t: h l:: h o s e n ~=! g o t·. 'i. i:1 t . .i. o n s .

A s h o n . gent1ern(:1n rnay or· may not know, Vol XI.. right now, as a matter of fact t.he l'lCc1 X 1: (' i . l) 8 0 r• ~d. X d d 1j S , -i. S d doiAmtJme in t:c-:lnns of carr·ying on btJs:i.nr,'!iS 'i.n JdpHn. My undE:'rstand'ing . from the indust-.ry :is that 'l".I·H:!IJ lv·1Vf:l lflddE! pr·ogr'E!SS.

They expect to reconvene in Cdnada, r.~-i. l:hE:!r' 'i.n Montr·ei'll or· VancouVE!r, pr·obably rJE!Xt WEHd<, ancl (:1Vt•r·ybody i.s opt:i. m'i.st~ · i.c l ~ hal:: ovr.:! r' the next IAJE!E!k 01A tE!n dc~ys or· so there will be an agreement in place between the Newfoundland processors, the Newfoundland producers and the Japanese ·i.mpor'I::E!Y'S. So lAW are o p t: i rn i. s i: j, c , M r . S p E:! a b:! r , that wilJ. take place, and take place "i.n plenty of time for our own processors then to carry on n c-:'! g o t i. a t .i o n s IAri. t h ·1·: h e 1.1 n i o n h E'! 1" E! :i n N E!IA.Jf o u n d J. and . MR. W.

CARTER: Mr. SpE!aker'. MR. SPEAKER: (l S 1.1 fl p 1. f~ Hl8 I'IJ:iH' y , 1:: h ('! member for Twillingate. MR. W. CARTER : hon. Mr·. ~lpeal<"!r, yc,1st.or·d.:-~y, on The Fishermen's Broadcast, I do not think the m:i.nistE!r' IAJas a~; opt:i.rnist:'i.c. T.n fdct, I th.i.nk ht;! expressed some alarm that no ;:-1gr·E~ern~<~nl': had b(:!E:!n reach<'!cl so far. Mr. Speai<E!r, this is a VE!Y'Y -L n 1 p o r· 1:. a n t J n d u s t r· y a n d IAJ E! c c:t n n o t. gamble with it.

Given the fact that l:: hE!Y ar·e gc-?.t:t·Lng very 1il:.t 1E! caplin frorn lCE!J.and and ol:hE:!r Scandinav-Lan countries th:is year, it could bE! c~ ~3ood ye•ar· f'o1~ tiH! cap 1 :in f "i. s h <-:'! r· y . Can t. h r:! minis t. e r· te!ll thE! HousE! hE! has a cont 'i.ngE!ncy plan? Tf for some rE!ason or other thE! JapanE!SE! and H1e indus l:. r·y cannot. comE! to sorne agreernNlt, IAJhat clct:i.on dOE!S h~:! cont:f~lllplal:.c'! tak .. i.ng to rnak<,~ sur·e that t.hE:1 satTIE:! th:ing IAJ::llJ. not: 1\Jo. ] 0

happen this year that happe!ned last year to the caplin fishery? Mf~. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Fisheries . MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker·, first of all let rne s a y 1:. h a t I d o no t t h ""i. n k i. t c a n b e construed anywhere yesterday in rny r·c,11fliH'ks to The Fishermen•s Broadcast that I expressed al.i:H'm. Wh<:ll: T d""i.d smy, IAJI'li:•lt T ~;ay aged n nOIAJ and IAJhat I have said COI'lS '" i.SI:~~nU . y on a l'lUJIIb~H' of occasjons ·.:i.s l:hat l think :it j!; in t hE! be s l.

"i. n 1. e r· n s 1: o f 1-. h n cap l. i. n f]sher·y :in th-.is Pr·ovince to have n (:1 g () t: j_ r:~ ·1: -i. 0 n s 0 n p r· .i. c: ~=! s r:~ n d tonnages out. of ti·H,1 tJJay ear·) y eno119h so t:hr:ll: NGI~J"fQill'ldl.and produce1"s can haVE! plenty of t:irnt1 l:o l'lE!<.:JO 1.. i.~1 t:r-~ w·i th the har·vo s h~I"S, IA.J:i.th the f-:ishE!r'ITIE!rl of th:i.s Province, to reach agreernont on prices jn that regard. And secondly, of cou1nse, Mr.

SpoakE!r', IJJe t.:ook, as a gover·n1n~:!nt and an industry, a great for1JJard leap last year in terms of the caplin industry when we imposed for the first time a regulatory regime that everybody thought IJJas beneficial to . the further development of the caplin industry. And as I l::old l::hE:1 r'E!presentatiVE!S of thE!

JapanE!Se importers ~nd the Japanese government quite candidly ~n Japan, our· gov~H'I'li/IC-:'n-t·. systc:1111 i. s no rnor·e effjc:if:,~nt. !:han thed.rs, and lAIC:~ h;:-llJO l·:o hi·llJE! plenl":y oF l.f~i·ld l·.irno :i.r1 or·d~:!r' l·.o :introduce l:ho.SE! r·egi.ll.ator•y Y'C'!9""i.IJH:!S hOI"r~ "l:i'li'\"1: Ollr' people want and thclt they want. So, Mr·. Spc:1dkr;!r', IAJr;! h·:·lve f;!lJr;!r'y optim:ism at this point in time, h iW i. n 9 c o n s u 1 t r.;! d 1~ri. t h t: l·lf~ :i. n d u s l.r• y r·c-?.prc,~sentctU.vE!S from NeiJJfoundla.nd, 1-:hal: i.n f;:-~cl~ an agre1~~~~~~~nt IAd"l.l bE! in place.

Las ·t year· IAJas a very US63 May 5, 1.9 8 a Uo1 XL : unusual year, as the han. geHltl.c,Hnan knoiAJS. I rnean, we overproduced dramatically in 1986, which caused us a lot of the problems that WE! had in 1987, and IAJe do not. :i.nt:~Hld to a11oiAJ !:hat., Mr. Speaker, in 1988. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. W. CARTER: M r· . . ~3 p e1 a k r-:! r· , a f i. n a J. s u p p J. o rn e n 1":. a I" y . MR. SPEAI<ER: ----- ---A final supplementary, the hon . t h <:: rrH:nn I:H'! r· ·for· TIAd.l 1 "i. n g a tf~ . MR. W. CARTF.f~ : Mr.

Speal<e!r, :in the cap] in f:lshery r•npor·+- l":hr-~ mtrr"i.s h:'r subrwi. · U.·. ~:!d l:.o this House some tirne ago, r·E:~COITlliWI'ldi:-11-. : ion :10 I"~:!COIIIHI~:!nds l:.hal":. the caplin processors should get together to formal.i.ze a single marketing and processing dssoci.dl~.i.on. Tht1 ITI:"i.nist.E:!r' agl"f:!E~cl u.d th that rE! cornrne nda lion, E! v E:! n though t.hc:1 rnc:1inbcO!r·s of Lh~~ "i.ndust:r·y and thE:1 trade, I think, had sorne r·eser·va ·t.:ions.

In h:i.s rt=!l.t:.•as<~ to the House on that date, he d:id s ugge:1 s t t.ha t h~~ u.Jou ld bt~ f o J.lo1~r:i. nq up the matt.er· and hopE!fuJ.ly haVE! something in place, rnaybe in 1988. I IAJO nd ~H' can House if t: he:~ HLi. n ..i. s t:. c;! r t. ~~ 11 t. h t:.' that is still h:i.s objeci:.:i.vr,~, l·.o gt'!i:: a plnOp(H' mar·keting and proCE!Ssing agE!ncy ".in pl.dcc,~ i. n l":"i.me for nc:1Xt. yc,'iitr·'s caplin fishe:n·y? MR. SPEAI<ER : The hon. the Min:"i.sl":er of Fisheri.es . MR. RIDEOUT: M r· .

f) p f~ d I<('! r· I i:. h r:·l i··. ·i. s (;!X a c t.l. y ()j hat: t:.hE! statE!rTIC:1nt. said, that:. I IAJOuld bf:! follo1~1"i.ng up on t:hat and 11opefu1J.y have sorrH=!thing :i.n place• for 1989, no~. 1988. No. 30 Rl.563

SOME HON. MEMBERS: fh~ar, hc,1ar! MR . LUSH: Mr·. Spt::1d.ker·. MR. SPFAKER: rhc-:1 hon . thP. IIH:1HibE!r For· RorH~lri. sh:l NOI"th. Mf~. LUSH: 1 have ~ question for the Minister of M u n i c :i. p a 1 A f fa :i. r s ( M r . B In e t t ) .

In view of the tremendous and apparent irreversible financial m E:1 s s IAI h i c h m u n i c i p a 1 i t i e s f i n d themselves in throughout the Pr·ovince, preventing the provision of IAJatc;!r' and SBIAJ~H' and r·Dads l: o the people of this Province, part.i.cu1cu·1y the Y'IJY'al cH'C;!aS, a pr·oblem cornpoundE:1d by thE! fact t.hat l:.ht::1 gOVE!Y'nlllE!I'lt ~li:'lVC::~ a three-year freeze on capital f1.1nd·i.ng for· rnun i c:i.palit.i .e s , ·i.n v:i.('!IAJ of this probJ.E!ffl, in vi.E!I/J of t. h i. s 1:: r· a v E:~ s t y , . h a s 1·:1'1 e . Ill i. rl'i s 1-.

E! r approached the federal government r~:!qU~~st.:'i.ng funds fr·orn lri.s politi c al friends Jn Ottawa to i'ISSi .sl': ·i.n t:h "i. s Hlost :i.mpoln[-.c.'ln1: pJ"obJ~~rn. in the pr·ovis:ion of ad C:1 q 1.1 i':l h~ p IJ b 1. i. C: S A Y' lJ"i C (~ :> [: 0 1: h H people of this Province, p a r· i:. i c: 1.11. d J" l. y t: h n p c;! o pl. c,~ l. i. v "i. n g :i. n '1-. h f.~ r· tH' rl J i:l. r N::t s o f t h :i s P r o v i n c e , t. 0 p r• 0 V :i. d (:! 1: h P.lll !AJ:i. l: h ;:'I C CC:1 p h'l b l f~ levels of public service colnpar;:~bl.E! to U10!> E:~ r-~njoy~ =! d by o t. J·w r C a n ad i. i:'l n s ?

I t. s r::~ E! m s 1 i k E! a jJJ s t:i. fable and r~1 asondbl.(,~ r·eqtH!S t. MR. SPEAKER : The~ hon. Lhc,1 Mi.n i si:.En' of Mun 'i. c l pal. Affatr·s . MR. BRETT: -------Mr . Speak~~r, I pc~r·sond.lly havE:~ nol been in contact with anybody in thE! fE!der·al govc·H'mnent.. I have::~ only beE!n dotAJn tn the dE!partrnent: for three or four months . 1..1.564· May a:;, 1988 Uol XL It ts my understanding that this i. s an on go :i. n g t. h i. n g 1~ri . t h the federal government every year.

Ti·H~ r· r-~ IAI:i.l l. b c,~ i.H1 o t I'1C:H' rrw c-?. t i. n g i. n , I believe, Hal i fax, J.at:er· on :in i:h0. !)uHnnc,H' IAJhc'!rc;! i'lll oF t:h E! Ministers of Municipal Affair s f r• 0 HI 1·: h 0 V i'l Y' 'i. 0 II S fl In 0 V .i 1'1 C C::! S IAI i }], meet with the federal officials. t <:·\ n1 c: on f :i d c,~ n t t h <:·l t 1·: h a 1: 1.1.1'1. l. l. b c;! discusSE!d again at t·.hat. po:i .nt: in 1:. i . 1r1 n .

T l: i. s v ~H' y v i.'ll i. d , 1~.1 hat:. t: h (,~ hon. mE!mbE!r is ta1.ki.ng about:, and ·i.t: · .. i.s oF gr· f~<:lt conCE!r'n, no!'.·. only to Newfound1and but to all t~e provinces, because not on1y is there a need for more money for addltion o f new wat e r and s e we r projects but. thE!re is also a growi.ng concern all over Canada, and, I think, in thE! Un:itod States, that a lot of the i.nfras tru c tlH'E! that is alJnE!C~dy i 11 place is get ti ng dilapidated br·idgE!S, lAJcd: E!r and s~: !I/Jer sys torns .... and th e Figur e s being thr o wn around to bring a l ot. of thes e sr-~r·vicr ' !

S up Lo st:r.:lnd d r·d "i. s i.n l::hE! bil l ions of dollars. So it 'i. s an ongoing thing and :i.t IAJ 'L 1.1. be,~ d·i. s C:ll s sed i:\f~i:l " i . n t:h·i. s y oar· . But no, this m:in:i.si:.EH' has nol': · pc~ r s ona l l.y c:oni : · .~ctr:!d anybody ·i.n the last three or four months . MR. LUSH : A Sl.lppl.~~l'llf~nt .• :·lry, rJJr• . Sp~:!c:lk(:1Y'. MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon . -the JTJE!I'nbE!Y' for· Bonavistc:~ North. MR. LUSH : I find i t incredlb1e t:hat th e minister has not approached his federal counterpart on t.h:i. s rnost tmportant, vital matter.

Now, will the m·Lnister undertake to find out whether some oth e r of h:i s col.l~~aquc,~s have appr·oa c h(~d t:he federal government in thi s ·i.lflpor· t ant ma l ~ t: er·? !J(,1CiHisc,~ t:h .i.s No. 30 RlS64

was the crowd, Mr. Speaker, that was going to get all sorts of good.ies for this Province when l:hE:1Y got their federal buddiE!S elected in Ottawa. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! MR. LUSH: Now, Mr·. Speaker, a further q u e s t ·t o n . A n o t 11 EH' iH' ~~ a l". h a t c a n be very important to rnurl'i.cJpal'i.t.iE!S ·i.s the fedc;!ral. Job Strategy Programme. PREMlER PECKFORD: A-pcJirlt. of ord-er, M1~. Speaker. MR. SPEAKFR: A po:J n'l' of order, the hon. the P r· ~~ 1 rri. (:1 r· . PREMIER PECKFORD: 'RuJ cc'!s ai"E:1 riot--T>-E:d .ng appJ :i.ed fa:irly h(:H'Cc1. Th"i s "i. s q1H:! s 1·: i. on P fH'"i. od .

Han. ru~~mber·s opposJ LE! have be~Hl gE!U-. Lng up, on~~ suppl . cc'!HIE:1nl':dry and going on 1.1.1'.i.th a speech, and they have been getting away with it . Nmu, Mr. Speaker·, T under·stand that the way you operate this House is that on the orig i n~l question, obviously, a pr·eamble to explain the contc-?.xt "i.s tn order·, and all of the members on this stele, and all the moi.nisters on this side underst:and that. And we think that that is very appropriate, highly reasonable for the or·.ig i.nal quest ion.

Wh~:!n t:hE!t'e :is a supplernE!I'd:ary, it is my understanding that then the han . member following up on his or.i.g.i.naJ. q1.1esl · .. i.on, c:·\11d th~H'f~for•r;! thc,1 contc-?.xt has been sc;!t, could just r.tsk r.1 quf:1st ·.i.on. NOIAJ, thr,1 hon . IJIE!IIIbc~r· -i.s doing l".l·w s i:~nH~ as a 11urnbe r· of hon. ITIE!rnb e r s hi'IV f~ done over thf'! rl'! todr.~y. lh~~y ar·e having just as much prE!amb1E:1 Ll'J6 5 May IJ, 191l8 Vol. XI.. and speE!Ch on LhE:1i.r· sl.lppl.E~IIlc:1nl:ar·y questions as on their original ques 1.: i.ons. And l·.:hdt doc;!s ;:~ nu1nber of things.

It gE!tS very bor:i.ng, becaiJse IAIC:1 all undersl7 .and t.he context at the begihning anyway from the od.g i.nc.'ll q1Jest:"i.on. And, number importantly, oi.t of time l:hat t:wo, and l.im .i.t.s the other rno r E! amount rnernbE!rs opposite have to ask a question in this House. SOME HON. MEMBERS : H~H'Ir, hccH1r! MR. SPEAI<FR: To that point of ordE!r, thE! han . 1: h r,, I . ~~ ad e r· o f ·I: h e 0 p p o s :i. 1:: J. o n . MR. WELI..S: Mr. SpeakE!r, I do not:. cl.i.sputc,, t"h~;! 91':!1'1('~t'i'\J. COIIIIII('!I'li":S l:.hi'1i'.: th~;! hon. thE! Pr·E!I'nier jt.1st. madE!.

EsSE!nt.ia1Jy 1". h E! y d r' ~~ C 0 t' I" (~ C l: , IAJ'.'i 1·: ll 0 n E! exception . Even on a sup pl. f~ mr,1 n t. H r' y quE! s t: .i on , ~ 1 t·. ·i. ~' frequently going to be necessary 1-.:o add a little bit to lay the proper foundation. But I agrE!E!. you should not ll'lc\l<e a 1E!ngt:hy spe!ech. I do not dispute that, but there has to be some understanding that it is necessary f r· E! q u e n t 1. y t. o p e r• h a p s h a v e a sentence or two or thrE!E! to 1clY t. he g r·ou ndiJJO r· k .

And l:o talk Ftbout taktnq up t.hE! time of the House, we have set ~H:'Ine l'.: ·ilfle afl:er· 1-.i . lfH~ ·i.n Qu(;!stoi.on Period and listened to ministers d r· c:1 g o n a n d o n <:1 n d on, just usE:~ up thE! have not been called on and on dnd t:i.m(!, and thoy I".O or·dc;!l". ~)o, rJJr·. ~·)poc.~kfH', T bds-i.ct.·lll y d~p·0~~;! with the comments that the hon. 1: h H P r· f:!l(l"i. rH' hr.\ s should al1 i:lbide r;! n s u rr:1 t hc:·ll: IAJf>. Question PE:~riod. No. 30 I'Oc·1de, bur. IAJB by thE! ru1e!> and hr.'IVC:1 a PI"OPC:!t' R156S

MR. LONG: Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: HHo! h o n . the me m be r f o I" S t . Fds 1:. John 1 s MR. I..ONG: ----~-- Mr. Spc-:~aker, IAIE-~ i'.:t1so suppor· ·L Lhe pos'i.t"i.on of tho Pt·n,niP.r' on ·Uri.s, w-.ithout f:1XCC'!pl-.ion. W~1 beJiE:1ve i: h '" 1". d r'liJ 'i. n a n d d d y o 1 1 i: I)JC,1 r:-1 r· Cc! held to the o1nd~~rs for· Question Per" i.od, e1nd IAit::! do our bns -t·. to restr-.ict our supplementaries, and I).H:1 t-.1-l'i. n k l':. h ~H' e s h o ul. d b ~'! n o exception for the official Oppos i.t-Lon bec<HISC'! t h<'!Y'<:1 1. ~; certainly no exception applied for us. SOME HON.

MEMBER~ : Hear, hE!ar·! PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr-:-- speakl;1r·. MR. SPEAKER: ThE:1 hon. the Premier. PREM.lER PECKFORD: I agr'l'H :1 u.r.i.l.h the han. the mernbE!r f o r S 1-. . J o h n 1 s F. i'1l> 1: --· be J. i . r.~ v r~ 'i. t-. , or· not . T th :ink ·the hon. ITIE!fnber t r• 'i.e S t·. 0 k E~ ('! p J (: IJ ~ : !I"

I) S h 0 r• i'. . J appi"HC'.i.i'.-~te lAihat thr:1 LeadE!Y' of Lh<:1 Opposi . l:i.on Sr·\ ·i.d, b11l·: solne ·U .IIIC:1!i Lhe I''C-?.i'..l!;on, tAihy m:in:i !>tei"S 1 anstAier·s ar·(~ l.ongr. :!Y' "i. s bE ~ C<:'.II.ISH 1-.hr.~ suppl E:HTH~nt<H'Y is l:.hE! same as an or·"i.gtnal q tJ('!S l':·i.on, dnd Uwy l'ldiH~ t o first make ~ · comment on the p r ~ '! d 10 b 1. f:1 , t h c:1 a n s IAH:! r· "i. s d :i. c l--. a h:! d by the quc,~st:Jon . Standing Order 31(

a) po:ints out, Mr . SpE!aker, Q u e s t. "i.

c) n s 1111.1 s t be o n. d ur·gency, and goes on to tt. in gr·~:!at det.id.1. supplernentaries are b<;!C:OiriB J :ii<E! OIH' C l. ~HH' l. y that Ora1 rnat hH' of talk about If our go:i.ng to o r"i. g i. n a 1 quest'ions, then the hon. rnernber Ll566 Mdy 5, 19B8 Vol. X L for St . John 1 s to gc-'!t. d chanCE! questions, nor East is not go:i.ng l':o ask a number of are a number of peopl.f:~ on l·:he bdckbE!nCh~: !S 01'1 th E! Liberal s:idE!. I want more questions. It i s gui- : l·.·i.ng bor·..-i.n':!J, Mr·. -~lp~~akor·, il:. ·i.s getting boring here. Terrible! SOME HON. MEMBERS: H<,1ar·, h<:1dr!

MR. ~:lPEAKER: ------~·-.. -OrdE:H', pleaSE!! To that poinl: . of ordE!In. It occurT<o!d to we, 'i.n l·i.sbHl.inq to hon. rnEHnbers on each sidE! of lhE! Hou s e, if hon. lfiBHI~Ho!r's IAJou1.d 1-.i.ke to corne up and conduct thE! Ol"cll Q u E~ s t. 'i o n s 1·: h CC! rn s e 1. v CC! s ? I t h i. n k t h e point is well taken. It i s a po 'i. nt that I have rnade on a number of occasions. ThE! IAiholo tdE'!a of qu<;!st.ion ti.rnH ·i.s to hav~:! a ~; 1T1any q u e s t i o n s a n cl a s rna n y a n s lAHH' s a s po!; s i.bl.r-?. . For the Cha:i.r it i.s · an E!Xl':.lnomE:!l.

l) d .i. f f :i. c u-1 I ~ rnr:~ t t·: E! r· . T. do no t: ''.Jan l: to get up every tirno an hon . HH~111br'!r on rny r·-.i.ght· . :i.s go i.ng a l:i. t. t:.lE! bit overboar·d, and tha 1':. l'h'lf>fHHlS on IIIIJ l.c-:!fl". 1'll!;o . T. t h i.nk that one has to have a cert:a:in a111o1Hl'l: of l,,;1x 'L ty, and T ;:un l:r-y .i. ng to do it <H tAIE1ll as I can uncle! " t h e d . r· c u m s t i.Hl c c;! s , l.•ri. 1.: h o 1.1 l-. h· y i. n g to tr'<:1at: the House as a c1a ss r·oorn or· ;~nyth:i.ng l. ti<E! 1--.h;:·\l': . PREMIER PECKFORD: "vou ·-have- :t-o1i-8"''fai r· I Mr. SpE!a k e I" . MR.

SPEAKER: I think the point is welJ far· as that. i.s ccHlC~H'rlE!d . to be a bit, not lax but. rigid in this matter. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! No. 30 takPn as W<,~ have no l:. too 1ns66

MR. SPFAKFR : The hon . HH~ Hlelni:HH' for· Roni:liJisl:i.'l Nor·t.h. MR. LUSH: Mr. Spe<ilkE!Y', anothr:1r iH'f:1a- AN HON. MEMB~R: All the leaders are coming back . SOME HO~. MEMBE~~: Hear·, hE!ar·! MR. BAIRD: ·-· --Here are the real leaders . !VJ~. TOBI~: Two for the price of one, Mr . Sper::tker·. SOME HON. MEMRERS: Hear·, h~~i:tr'! Mf~. SPF.AI<ER: 6rck!r', p].c,<1sc'!! ThE:1 Li.111c:! For· Or·r'll (\ll.lf'!Sl::i.on~; has noiAJ e J c~ps ed. SOME liON. MEMB f: l~S : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: ·-·----·· --Order, please! Order, please! Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Commitees MR. J. CARTER : Mr .

Spe~'lkE!r. MR . SPFAI<ER : The hon . the mc-:nnbE!Y' for· St. John 1 s Nor·th. MR. J. CARTFI~: Mr·--:-··speblk~;-r;-:- as Chr.d rman of I:. hE! Soc: i.,'ll ~)pr·,ri Cf'!S Corruni.l·.tr-H:! T ~~1ould J :i I< f:1 to I" C.;! por·t that the Corruni U : e c-:! has cons'i.dc:!r '<;!d l:hE! r.~sttmatc·'!S of H1~~ fo] low:i ng dE!par·tments: 1...1 ~)6 7 Mc:·l y ~> , 1 9 a a Vol X I.

Justice, Health, Education, Fnv:ir·onnlc~nl·. <:·lnd l .. ands, f:)oc .i.al Services, Culture, Recreatlon and Youth and Career Development and Advanced Studies, and has passed 1'. h f:1 rn r:'ll 1 IAJ :i. t: h out. arne n d rn c;! n t b u 1:: with some trouble. SOME HON. MEMBERS : H ear· , hE! a r I MR. HODDER : Mr· . . S p (>.a k C·H' . MR . SPEAKEr~: The hon . the merni:H:~r for Po1nt au Por·'l-.. MR. HODDER : Mr. Speaker, as Chairman of the Rosour·c:c '!

Colflrn:il': te~~ l 1~1ould J: i. l< <:1 l~o report. that t:. hE~ Comnd t.t.E!E! hi'l s cons:i.dr.:!r·r.~c:l !:hr.~ llli.-lt.l·.~H'S t.o i.t referred and hcts passed without ;:·ll'ilf:! n rlulf:! n 1: i. 1· r.:! 111 s oF i.:! x p f! n cl :i. '1:'. u r· c;! under the following Head i ngs: Mtn,::!S, F " ishc,~r· :i.Hs , l)r.;!IJC-:!lOplll~ '! l"'l :·. and Tour·:ism, Rur·al, A~Jricul t ur'E! ancl 1\Joi"l:hor·n l)r. >. vE:~J.opmc' !l'lt, For·ps l:. r~ C'! s o u r c e s , cHI d F. n e r· g y . SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE~ar, hr:HH'! MR. SPEAKER: Are Lhere any further reports?

The han. the member for Fol"tun(! - Hermitage on a point of order? t'!B_· ...§IMMOf\}_§: No, Sir, I 1.vas rising i n rny capac 'l ty as V:i. co .. -Cha i. r·rnan of that • comrrr.i t: I:.E!B. The Chainnan fa:i.:J .E!Cl to report, Mr. Spe~ker - MR. SPEAKER: Or·dE~r, pl.c,~a!>~~! MR. S1MMONS : Well, I can do :it on a potnt of on:lrH' ·i.f : i.l~ Slri.!:s U·J,·:! for·u111 be:~t i :.E! Y'. No. :lO R J.l:i 6 '7

MR. SPEAKER: I IAii.ll recogn:i .?.c-:! the hon. meHiber· on a point of order. MR. SIMMONS: Whatever Mr•. SFH~dker· fr·o1n Gt·~c,H,111 Bay s a y s . l r a :i. s e t 11 e p o :i. n t of order, Mr. Spe~ker - DR . COLLTI\J~): A 1J o j n t o ·f- o r· d E!Y' , M I" . S p e a k e r· . MR. SPfAI<Fr~: '( h etlJ ~~ r· ~=! c o g n i. 7. f;! d . l: h f~ For·tune ··· Her·mj !:age on or·d(;!r'. liH~ lfii:HH' f 0 t ' a po:j nt of rh~~ hon. i::h~~ Hlf!nJI:HH' For· For·tunr,1 - · He l"m:i t.ag e . PRFMIER PECKFORD: You can have a semlnar for the hon. member on the rules of the House, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMONS : Mr.

Speaker, the gentleman from Por·t au Por·t. in rnak "i. ng h-:i.s r·~~por·t: failed to inform the House that the Committee was less than satisfied with the unavailabilty o f l h e M i n .i. s t C·H' of F t s h e r· i. '"" s ; IAJ e wanted to have him back before the Coi111ni.tt.E:~E! bul:: he co1Jl.d not f "i. ncl a time that was sat:isfactory. MR. SPFAKFR: 0 r· d c,~ r· , p 1. f:! d s f~ ! T' h c,~ h on . HH~JIII:H'! r' p 0 J. I It. 0 f 0 I'' d E:H' . o f o r· d f~ r· . Ot"df~r·, pl. r,~;:~sn! i, s nol sl:r'lL-ing a The member is out Petitions MR. SPEAKER: The hon, the tne111be:H' for· Bur·gc'!O Bay d'Espo:ir·.

MR. GILBERT : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. L1568 May 5, 1988 Vol XL. I have a petition from 120 residents of Grey River . It is in thE! proper form, addresSE!d to thE! hon . House->. ""i.n Pi:lr·l.:i . cllllE~nt. assemblE!d, and all that. Tho p r· a y f'! r· o f t h c,~ p (;! t ·i. t. :-i. o n 1. s 1·: h ·:.i. s :

Whereas the telephone system to G r· r:1 y R ·i lJ f'! r· ··i. !> :i. n ad f'! q u a t e r.;, n d ineffective; and

whereas the l~ f~ l o p h o n o s f~ r· lJ :i. c t:! t. o f.: h .i. !> cornrnun:·i ty has dE!tEH'iOI"ated dutn:-.i.ng l·: h c,~ p d s i": F f:!

IAI y ~=! a I" s :i. n s l.: l~ a c l o f :i rn p r· o v :i. n g a s o n e lA I o u 1 cl E! x p f! c t ; a n d l.•lhC::!r'f~dS IAlf~ hi:'IVH llli:·id(:! l'll.llrt~:!r'OIIS complaints to Terra Nova Tel IAI:i."i:.hOII 'i·: r:·irlY ""i.rtlpr'OVC'!J"il('!l'li"". -.i.n l::he system, and only promises of i.tnpr·ovf~lllr:Hli-.5 -i.n t·.l·lf'! fu l:. ur·e:1; r.tnd 1.ul·wre!a s u.1e havE:! had many o c ca 5 :i i:Hl s IAJI'HO!r'C-:! tho p~~opl.f; ! of \::h i.s COIIIirJIHli l:y lost badly needed E!mpJ.oylllE!nt:. bE!Ci'lUSO OlrtployE!Y'S fr·orn OLII:.sJ.cl(;! l::hE! community were unable to contact IAIO r· k ~~ J" s .i. n G r· E! y R -L v r::! r· bE! c au so thE! community tE!}E!phonE! servi.CE!

I.JJcu; not IAIOrk-i.ng; dl'lcf IAih(~I" E!i'lS f:h(!l "8 haVE! bE!E!I1 occas:ions IAihE!I1 J.ifE! has been endangered because communications with thE! outside wo r· l. d h ;:~ v e b ~=! f~ n i. n 1: E! r· r· up l:: E! d for· as long as twenty-four hours when the telephone system was out of order; therefore we the residents of Grey R.iVF.!r humbly FH'<;iy t.Hld call. upon the House of A!;sembly t.o cont.clct t: h P M :i. n -i. s t: f~ r· o f C o n s 11 rn f:'! r· A f F '" i. r· s and Communications (Mr. Young) and T f:! rT <.·l 1\J r)

l) a TAl. l: o i lllfll' .. o v ~=! the telephonE! syst.C:11TI to t.hE:1 comrnun:ity b ::! for· t~ i:l s f~ r· :i o 11 s r:·l c: c i d ('! n L o J" 1 o s l; of 1 :if E! o c c u r s be c au s E! I.IH) a I" E! unr:-~blr: ! l~o cont r:·lCL Lhr;! OLJI:s.:i.d E! world in case of emergency. T h i. l> p n l: .i. 1-. ·i. o n t s s "i. g n t:! r I b y l 2 0 residents of Grey River. NoiAJ, T knOIAI IAJhHn l:.hP Moi.n.is L~n· of Consumer Affairs and Collllnun'i.ca.l::-i.ons r··i.sc,~s hE! "i.s go::i.ng to say that I brought th i s s-i.-t.uat:i.on l::o h.i~; dl:t~=!nl:.:i.on :i.n the Estimates Committee, and I know thai:. he has alr·~ = !ady ~~w"i.l:tc,'n T~:!rr·a No. ·30 R1568

Nova Tc,~l. Hc~1 :infor·mc-~d HH~ dur·i.ng the Estjmates Committee that he had not: h~~;:~rd .:-lny c:onlpl.r:·llnt:s fr·orn TE:11"r'a Nova l'c""J, so t.h:i s pc""·l::i.tion will now reinforce the r·epr·esentat:i.on that I arri made t.o hlm in the Co~nittee. I hope th~t he then will be able to once again contact Terra Nova Tel and ask them to move t.hEdr capitaJ. u.10rks p r· o j e c t lJ p f r· o rn n e x t y ~HH' t. o Ud s year becauSE! of the very serious s i t. u a t. i. o n t h a t. i s o c c u r· L n g :i. n G r· e y R:iver.

T am surE! that, as has bElen point t~d Lo me nuHIEH'OU s ·U.1ne s, and in my requests t.hat I have made to ren·a Novn Tel·- I h;:we passed it along there have been life-threatening situations.

Fi.r·st: o'f <.·lll., 1:·1 1nan h;:~d h'i.s bdck badly oi.njurc~~d jn NovmnbE!I", jn fact. ·i. l". lAid S b r• 0 I< 1-'!1'1, i:H1 d d 1". 1·: 1'1 d l: t "i.IIIC'! 'LhE:! t·EdE:1phonc;! systE:11Tl lAif.U> out. and I:Jw only co 1'11'1 f:! c: t: 'i. on HH'! y had 1~ri . t·. h thE~ outside lAior·ld 1~1as IAJh~:·n t:hE! f H n· y c '~lllf~ ·i n f-r·orn r~ c:~HH) a l: h c~1 rw x l: day. 1 t was tiAJE~nty-four· hours later befor'F.! l:h<~1rf:~ IAJc~\s dny con'i' .dct 1.1.1jt-h the outsjde tAJorld, and ·t.his lrldn had t.o go For Tilf:,rJ·i.er:·\1 attention.

Some of the residents have also poi.nt.·.ed out to me l:hat i.n the old days, IAJhE!n the tungsten minE! was thc;,r·e, th~H·e IAJas a d·i.r·c;,ct l. ·i.rH.;! from the tungsten mine in Grey R·i.v('!r to Buchans.

At l.Hast I:I'H.;!r·e IAJas contact with the outside t.oJorld twenty-Five or thlrty years ago, but what. has happened not.oJ J.s the system has deteriorated to the point that they are faced with p~1r"i.ods of t-LHl<"", up to I:IAJE!nty-.. ·Fotu· hours, IArithout any contact with the outside world. rhc~' ot.her· t:h:i.ng :i.s T h d IJ P. l ~~ t: i~ f'! r· s from residents dol.lln t.hE!rE:1 about h01~1 thF.!Y hr'\IJB lost: eJnploylunnL. May S, 1988 Vol XL Gr·ey R"itH~r·, lll'll.JkH lll<:H1Y of thE! communities on the South Coast of jiJf:~I~Jfounr:ll.r'HHI, -Ls nol: i~\ f"i.shing cornmun:ity.

Original.ly, becausE! of l:.hf) s:i.l::l.lr'lt::i.on wh~:,rc-~ boal:s could not get in and out bE,cauSE! of the ti.de, t:hc'! p(;1oplf~ 'cur· ned l:o I)Jor·l<"i.ng at the Buchans mines, or in the lumber IAJOO,ds. And nOIAJ a lo 1:. of them are employed in survey parties in the rnlning industry, and they have to be called from Tor· Q n to s ornE! IAI hE! r· c;! F o r·

E) m p 1 o y 1 n E~ n t and those people cannot get t.hr·ough. This ·i.s a ser·tous problem, Mr. MJnister, i':H1d j t is one they want addressed. T hr:we other· l<:1t.:tEn·s fr·ciHl p<:!oplE! who are doing business in Grey R'iver·, dl'ld fr·orn the pi':1oplf~ i)Jho ar~::~ doing business · w:ith thE! pE!OpJE, of (;r'E)Y R:ivE~I". rr t:hE!Y do not qC'!'l:: t.he or·de,r·s out. in LimE!, l:.hE'Y rn:'i.ss t: h f~ 1:)() ''' l: . T lv~ h :i. g l·liAkl y For· G r· E'! y R'.i.ver is the coastal marine s P r· IJ' i. c: c) ;:::~ l o n g UH'!

S o 1.1 i h Co a ~; t , a n d jf LhE!Y miss i'l shiprn~'nL datE:! on Fr·c-~ · ighi: co1noi.ng 011t: of Por•l: dUX Basques, there are hardships be c: r'll.l s F.! o F 1: h c~1 c; u p p 1. L E:! s no 1:: getting in on time. So, for al1 those l~E!asons, Ml". f.-5 p E.~ a k e r , l':l·lf~ p E:H:> p l E~ o f G r· E! y I~ -L v e r feel that Terra Nova Tel should be rnade i'.IIAJiH'(.;! or I'.·. he pr·obl.c;!)(). I 1':. 'is an extreme problem and something s ho1.1ld be dono about. t l: immediately.

They have the feeling that Terra Nova Tel are taking the same approach to GrE!Y Ri.Vc'!r' as l·: he gover·nlflf!l'll: r.lr·c;! l::ak:i.ng to Opposition districts. If it is an Opposi.t:'Lon d"i.sl.:r··ict:, lAIC:' IAJ:il.J. not: giVE! i.t as good SE!r'ViCE! as IAI8 would a distrlct l::hat is represented by the government. 1\IOIAJ, for· Lh:i.s r·E~ason, I FEH~l that. there should be serious t'f~Pt'f~senl'.c!ll ·: l.on fr'Oifl ·H1e rwLnJ.sl::C:H' t:.o Ten·a Nova Tel tE:~11ing t:hE!fTI to 1'110 l)f~ 1.1 fl '1: h C'! ·i, t' C i:l j:.l"i. lJ~ l IAIO (' k S No. 30 RlS69

project and ensure that the system in Grey River is brought in ·to the Twenl: . .iEd.:h Cc.;,ntur·y. BecaLISC,1, as they say to mE!, thE!Y had a bE!tter system twenty-Five or thirty years ago. At J.east they then had SOrliE! contact with the outside world, MOlAl they haVE! not. MR. SPEAKER: Orde1", p1.E:1aSE!! MR. GT.L8f.IH: Jn cone] us'.i.on, Mr·. SpE!akE!r', I 1.1JOI.I·l.d <:·u;k l·:ho rn.irdshH' l":o llklk£,1 s t·r·o ng I"Co1FJI"Co1 s E! ntCJ. Lion to bl"':i. ng I:: he l". f'! 1 ~:! p h o n c,1 s y s 1". C'! 1 n ·i. n C r· f'! y R ·i. lJ r-~ r· u p to TW(~ntieth Cc,1ntur·y standar·ds. MR. YOUNG: Mr·.

Spr-H·1iu'!r. Ml~. SPf: Ai<EI~: The.;! hon. thE! M:i.n:l.st(~r of ConsunHH' Affe:1-i.1"S and Co1Tilllun·'i.cc.,1t"Lons . MR. YOUNG : Mr. Speaker, I support the peti.t . .ion, bt~t I do not: b~;:1l.-J.eve the pet.:ition · should haVE! been brought to this Hous(~ of Assembly. T.t i.s a fede!raJ. matter. It comE!S undE!r the Cf~TC. llllhHn thE:1 hon. mernbHr' br·ought: it to my attention during +.: h ('! est. "i.lfli)l t-. C'! s .T. d ·.L d , 1 1·: h 'i. n k t: h c;! next morning, IA.Jrite Ter-r·a Nova T e l. . 1 d 0 S 1.1 p p 0 r• t t h E! p E~ 1:. :i. I': oi. o 11 .

Th(:1 hon. gf~nl:lc'!rrliHJ s;:,1:id ~~H:1 ~;ho11l.d pay rnor·c~! a·L Lc;!nt:i.on. If I~ he hon. LhP rnr-:!lrtbr:!r' For· flllr·gr-~o fl<'~Y d 1 Espoir receives ]etters of co1npl.t>1int ft·orn hi.s consl' : il:lwnl's I I'IE:1VE~r· r·ecE!iVE! cornp]a:i.n·t.s clnd hE~ dOE!S no 1: for·1~Ji:H'd UH:!IIl on t:o •'~ ndrd.ster' Ol" sornE!OI'lE! who is r·esponsJ.bl.r-~, hr-~ cr:·lnnot: bJ.alfiC'! l".hdl': on gover·nment, Ml". Speaker·. I do not bel i.~:!VE! i::hP hon . gE!nt:l.E!l'lldn i s do:i ng h:l.s duty as thE! MHA for· that. d i. s t.:r· i. e 1: .. MR. SPEAKER: Ll5 '70 May 5 , 1.9 a 8 Vol XL..

The hon. the-:! rnEnuber· Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: Mr·. ~lpcoH'li<l':'lr', so concern of thE! Co n s wm:! r A ·F f i"' .i. r· s . MR. YOUNG: for· Fortune - rnuch for· thE! M:in:istE!r of T'hA v ~~I" y next 111or· wi. ng T 1~1ro L: E! a Jetter to Terra Nova Tel.. MR. _f)PF::AI<FR: Ol"dE:H', pl.eclSE!! MR. SIMMONS: f.i' (~ --woii1'C:-, - ,.li·1 v Cc1 s (! t' l) ('! d L h p c d 1.1 s e d 1ot: bett:c,~r· had hE:' ~Jot up and t.:oJ.cl UH'! HotJSf:! thal: IH'! r;!Hipal::h"i.zed IAI'.:i.l::h the peopl.e jn Gr•py RivE~r lAJho df:!pc-~nd Oi'l t:•1 t:P.J.ophOI'lC:!

SE!r'V:i.C~' f~or• t.he'il" access to jobs, to f~ d u c i'\ t :i. 0 n I 1·: 0 lrl f~ d i c r'l l F i\1 c -j_ 1. i. r· ::i. ,,, s and to shopping. MR. BAIRD : (Inaud'ibl.e) . MR. SIMMONS : GrE!Y R:i.VE!r, I tE!ll thE! gNltl.ernan Fr·orn HurnbE!r' WC'!St, -:i.s one of several communities al.ong the coast which are particularly dependent on good telephone s EH' vic c.;! . I ell II Ul'i. n lei. n q of corrununities like PeU. t:E!S and Grand fl r· u :i. t. a n d La P o :i. l. C'! , ;:~ l. 1. o f IAJ h .i. c h h E! wi11 know :i.nt:'.:i.rnat:E:1ly.

CrE!Y R:ivE!l" ;:~nd Fr·ancci:i .s r:·lnd McCal.lUIII, d.l.l. t h r e e a r' e i n t h E! d t s t r :i c t o f 1':1'1 E'! g ~~ n L l. f~ 1 n ;:~ n f I" o rn B r· 1 1 g H o Bay d 1 Espo:il", a d:istr·ict. IAJh:ich it lAJas 1ny pl.Hi-lSUI"C! 1-:o l"f:!pl"f:!~>f'!nt. ·in t:h:i.s Charnbc;!r at:. onE! t:-iiTIO. It IAJi'lS rny 0 q 1.1 ;:1J p J. f~ r:~ S I I t' C·~ ~~ 0 h i·liJ 0 t' ~~ p t' ~1 S 0 1'1 1:: ('! d those cornmunit:i.es federally at one 1·: ·.i.rnr'! . Thr-~ lllf'!lllbE:H' For· l·lu1nbEH' L~Jost 'i~:; gett'ing alJ. of this noiAJ? I am not t.Hl.k-Lng too qu:i.ckly for· h irn? No. 30 R1.570

I will pick it up in Hansard . MR. SIMMONS: Thr-~n, .:~l . so, cornHJLJni. l'i_t·~s l 'i. i<f~ Gaul l·.o'.is and Rencontre Fi-lst in rny d .is t-: r· i. c:-t: oF For· tun r-~ H o r·nri. h'lg n , ctnd thE:HI fUI"lh~H' dOIAII'l th E:1 COaSt . , oF cour·sc ;!, Sou Lh 'Eds l: Flight. Mf~. 8AJRD : Bt:ll.leoram, St. . Jacques, and then on up. MR. SIMMONS : No, no. There the member shows hi.s ver·y J.imi .ted knowl.E:1dgc'! of communities like Southeast Bight iHl d P e t_ :i t F o r· t. e .

T h e d i. s t. i n c t i. o n I am making in listing those eight or l:. c,Hl c ommun i. t 'ies .i.s th~~ s e communities arE! noL connected by road. tf you phone sysl-:em goes out j n Grc,1y RiVE!r, you cannot get abodr·d your· car· and go to I:: he:! nr-:!X t: comrnun:ity because t.:hE!re j s· no next COHillltHli.l~ lj .in t·. f!!I'' IIIS of i:·l c:l ·-i.l"f:! Cl: r·oad conrH:H:tion . They ar·c;! UE!rl) llli.ICh ;:11·. t:hn lflf~l"Cij of l:hH el emE!nt s.

Thc,1y haVE! to tAI<..d t:. for· 1: h f:l ' r· ·i_ g h ~~ k i. n d of wc.~ '" 1: h c,ll'' t: o c,1 1; c.:! n ge t a mes sag e out to the ne xt COifllllUn 'i.l:y . I tAJas i. n ~~~:!ncont:r·0 f;:~st not-: Loo long ago when that very kind of soi.t.Lir'\1-.:i.on l·.:r'r:tnsp -i. r•c,ld wh~H·c.~ I:I'H!!IJ had been t.~ri.t:. hout phones and they had to s ay l':o rne, 1 111lh~~n you go back to Pooles Cove, would you call TNT and t ell them we have been wi t hout phones? 1 They have no b;:~ck up sy s l: c.;!m . They have no r·oad. For thoSE! people, Mr· .

S p c,l a k e r , i n G r ('! y R ··i. v e r w h i. c h · i. s the subject of this petition today !:he;! pc,lt.·i.t t on :is fr·orn 1-.:hat community but also for other communiL.i.es such as I have mentioned, a good telephone serv :i.ce i.s an ab s olutE! n~: H:esl> i.t:y . I n let 1nent .i on J ng me t.hr·ot.u tho se1 cormnun:i . l: i.()S, in one community tAJh:ich, though it has a r·oad SyStt,!ill, ·i.s f ~ XpC'!l'':i.C:HIC':i.nr,:J SOIIH!! r·(~al. probl.c,,ms t.o~rith ·telc,,phonE; ser· vJ.cE:~ in t' r.~ c r-:1 n i...

I..LJ (-:~ 0. k s t:·ln d I: 1'1 <:·' l~. t s 1:: h E:1 community of Grand Le Pjerre in my prH't :i_clJliH' d i s l'.J""i. c l: . MR. BAIRD : Why ar' E! you turn:i.ng your b a ck on the.;! Sp~ldk f! !Y' ? MR. ST.MMONS: There mu s t be SllbconscioLIS, gentleman For Bair·d). MR. FUREY : SOI'IIE!th:Lng in I s diJ \::o Humber Wesl':. my 1:: hl':! (Mr·. The soon to bE! forrnE!r rriE!rnbc:!r for' Humber IIIIE:!s t . MR. SIMMONS : Ml''. SpE!ak e r·, I a111 dE!l. i gh l E!d Lo stJppor·t l".hn p<:!t::i.t::i.on s o ably presented by the gentleman from B u r· g ~w B i'11J d 1 E l> p o :i. r' ( ~~ r· . G:i.J.bE!rt).

WE! tak~~ thE:! rnin :.i.s l:. e r· al':. th "i. <; l.o~JOI"d, i" hdl-. he IM"i. ll b ~: ! :i n touch aga'in tAI·ith TNT . W~: ! l"r.~ c ogn "i. /.t~ l : hi~lt :i. n h '!l''fll l> oF statutory jurisd:i.ction, it i s a Fc.:!dC'!r'i'll mdl :i:t'!t' . Rttl : , l.o~Jhy i.s 11-_ that !Ale i-lltAJays i.nsis t: on b w:i ng so cJ. "i. n'i.c; :·1l.? T hc. : !sr~ ar'f:! lrli.·11:: 1--.E:!r's I.•Jh .i. ch affect people in rural Nc.~t.o~Jfotlnrll.r:-lnd <:·1nd Lhi'1t f;'l c l·:. al.on(,~ makes them our concern in this par·t:iculdr Chmrnbc;!r hc,,r·e. MR. BAifW : (Inaudible) petition. MR.

SIMMONS : I h a 1:-. .i s tAJ h 1J 1: h (,1 g ~~ n t 1. C'! 1 n a n for· BurgE!O Bay d 1 Espoir, I and rny good Fr·orn HU111bc'!r' WE!St a'lJ. endor·s~" heartedly the prayer of this peti.t: i.on and hopE! that I"NT tAJ:i.ll recognize its responsibility here and lJ~i!Y'IJ soon i:lddr ' E!!l>S t:he pr·obl~:!rn i.n Grey RiV E!r . My for BurgE!O Ba y 1\Jo. 3 0

d'Espoir suggested a solution: Advance their plans in terms of capital expenditures. What they are going to do down the road, let them do i.t: notJJ, let them do i.t. t:his Surmner· so that. IJJC;! tAJ.i.ll have an adequate system in Grey River. MR. BAIRD: It should have b e en done five yE1ars ago. MR. SIMMONS : The gentleman for Humber Ba·i.r·d) :i.s agr'el:~. i.nq wi. l::h 1 ·t"hi:tnk h:irn. MR. W. C8Jli.1B..: Mr. SpE~ak<;1r·. MR . 3PEAi<F.:i~ : nw hon. Twi. J.l. :ingr.t · l~H . MR . W. CARTEr~ : WElS t ~~ h Et t (Mr·. too . for· M r .

S p e a k e r· , I r· i s c:~ t o p r· e s E! n t a pc"'t i.t"'i.on s LgnE~<J by dppr·ox:i .llli!ll:E:!l.y 170 peoplE:~ from thE! cornrnunit : y of Fa L dHHI k s , tJ.J ~d c h , of c o u r· s e , ·i s o n New World Island in the TtAd.ll inga te d:i s 'l:r 'i. c 1: . Thc:1 pr·ay er· of the petition, Mr. Speaker, is !:hat the roi~d to and throtJgh !':.hat community be upgraded. The,~ pet:i.tionE!rS say, 'We ar'E! fE1d up tJJ-Li:h the dir·t rO<jlds Uli'lt IAII:~ have to traVE!l over. We are sick and ti.r·ed of hr:·lV i.ng our· Vt'!h.icl.~=!s damaged by the s e bad roads.

We HY'(.;! fe,!d Up IAJ'i.i·:h OIJF' chJ. lcJr·r~n having to travel over these bad r· o ads on s c h o o J. bus H s . 'W~?. dppr·E~cJat:.~~ tJJhi'.lt the~1 local 1-1-i.ght~klYS Depr:H·l·:HH'!ni: has dorw, 1:)1,11". ·.i 'l" i s 1 j I< E~ p u t: L J n g i:t n c~1 IAJ · p a t c h o n d n () 1. d p i:·d. t' 0 f p d n t: s . I T h f~ y r:'lr' (,~ lnefl'Hnr•ing l'lE:H'E!, of course, to SOlliE! o f l: he rwi. n o r· r· <:1 p i'dT s l: h ~~ t l::l·w y made to t he,~ t"oads. They are ask-i.ng lhat d conl:ractor we engaged to upgrade the road to and L.:I.S72 May 5, 191l8 Vol.

XL through Fairbanks and that: it: bE! pav~: !d. Mr·. Spc-?.al<er·, t.h;~t ·Ls one of ITliHlY such roads in my district that need attention. I have in the past couple of years brought these rnatb:H'S +~o i::h~~ a t.t:Elnt·.ion of Hll':! Minister of Transportation (Mr. 0 o y l. e:~ ) o n n u 1r1 e r· o u s o c c a s :i o n s . Mr· . S p E! a k E! r , thE! p (! o p 1 e of F d ·i. r· b H n k !> s h o U J. d not h i:·l V E! 1:: o put up with such intolerable conr.l:i. t·: .i.on s. lhc-?. sr~ pE!Opl .

P, l.·i. kE! c.~ lot of other people in Twillingate d ·J.sl:r· ·i. ct. , dnd T ~'l . ippo s c'! ar·o1 .11'ld Newfoundland g~'nE•rally, in rny v:i E!IAJ are be-i.ng treated like second-class citizens. Surely sotnet:h :i.ng could h;:·lv<,' b(~ ('!n donE! these past number of years to make the roads better in l:hese area s because, HIE! people in Fa:irbanb, dS iH'f=!

Lhc.~ p(wpl (;! :i.n l·l('!tTi.ng Nc:1,ck and Cobb's Arrn and P:ikE! 1 S A1n111 and a nurnbE!r' of ol:hc,:!r' cotnrnt.lni.t-. ·ie!:; :in Twillingate district, are taxpaying people. fhey pay the samE! tax as dOE!S a pC::!Inson 1-.i.v:ing .i.n ChtH'chO'i.ll. Par·k, St . John's, or in the hE1art of Grand FalJ. s , Gander· or Cor·ner· Rr·ook. Thoy pay an identical licensing fee for their vehi.cl.es. They do not get a brE1ak bE1cause the1 r·oads arE! bad. Thc,~y pi•ly t:he exact S h\Tnc,~ l t CE!ns tng fee as a person living in the more I>~JC:~l.l · -to -·do udliHl ;u·~~;:>~s.

T'hE!Y pay the samE! taXE!S on t.hEdr gasoJ.i .nE! as do f\Jr~IJJf'OI.II'ldl. iHlrlr'!r's l..LvJng in thE~ othe1r betUH' J.ooked c1ft :E:1 r Mr· . SpeakE1r, thE:~re :is <.-t cf:iff"!l"encE :! :i.n U1c11". l·.hH pr~oplo t'Jho J.·llH! i.n Fair·banks and t.ha-1':. cli"E!cl, t:h<:!il" lJ <·) h :.i. c 1. c.=1 s r.1 r· o d (:! p r· ~) c i i'l 1: .i. n q ;:~ 1:. ;;1 much gr·eatE!r' ratE!. ThE! t.r·adc-:1--·in v r'lli .J f'! 0 f t: h f ~ :i. r· v e h :i. c l. I'! ~; I (,\) h ('! n t -. h E! y go to tradE! thE!ITl in, is cons ·i.df:!Y'i.·lbly lotAJt-:~r· i':hdn +:.hat. of a person, say, living in another No. 30 R 1') 7 2

part: of Newfoundland. In fact, I i'11rl told l~.hr~t. i.n SOinC.;! Cr.\SC.;!S i'l veh-:i cl E:', for example, that. has b •·~ c.~ n d r' "i. tJ H n o v ,,, t' 1.: h c,, s 1->. r' o 61 d s , 1.: h c->. r·or.H~ t.o Fa:i rbanks, IAJouJd probably dr:!pr'AC'i . ab~ by IIIOrf~ i:han SO pc->.t' cc->.nt 91"E:1al:c,,r thi:J.n a Vf~h:iclE! thc:lt h<:-1s b~::1c,,n l~l.ll"l'lf~d in l:hi:'li" hc:-1s bc.~c.~n drjv(:HJ over· roads :i.n the mor~' cifHlSC->.l.y ·pOpUl.r!ll:f~d iH'f~r.\S, Mr'.

SFH>.t~lk<->.r', l:hc.:! fac l~ r·c.:!·lnd.i.ns t:hHt the govEH'nrnent. dOE!S have a VE!t'Y s c,, r' t o 1.1 s r 1;;1 s p o n s "i. b i. 1. i. t y t o l-. h C.;! s o peoplE:'. Unless and until they are r' c,, ad y t o d o s o HIe t: h i. n g IAI i. 1:: h t h e 'i. r' roads - this is something that did not happEHJ ovcH'n'i.ght.

Thc,1se roads have been in this conditicin now for· the past l·:h"i.rty or for·ty year·s, and unless and until thE! government is · willi.ng to do something to upgradE! these roads, I do not th.i.nk l::he peopl.f~ 1~1oul.d bE~ unreasonc:lble if 'l":hE!Y IAJere to ask t:he govE~r·nrnt:.~nl:: For' JnaybE~ a reduction in the cost of their l. i.cc.~n!:dng, 111aybe c.~vc.HJ an c.~xc.~mpt-i on or a partial exemption on gasoline h:~x.

T k no1~1 Ukd: ·is r'l f;:-n' Ot.ll·: suggestion because it would be di.ffi . cul. l: l·:o adlfli .n:i.si ··.c''t', b11l: T cannot say I would bJ i::lrne the people,, "i.f l:hf~Y r'c->.fi . Jsc.~d l:o p<:-1y t:hf'! full licensing fee for their vc.~h'i.c:lc.~s. [ Cr:·lnnot Sr:·1Y I I)J0lllcl blarn~?. t:hE:'m if they would at least: I :r- y l: o r' ~=! f u s r~ l: o p a y t h c.:! f 1.1 l. 1 gasol:i.nc,, tax on thE! gasoltne' that 1':. h c;, y u s r:' i. n t h ,,, 'i. r· v c.:' h :i c l. c.'' s . Mr. Speaker', j l: is a very ser:ious rnatter an~ one that the government, I think, should address immediately.

Because of these bad roads, as the petitioners poi.nt ·out in the petition, the lives of their children are endangered, youngsters who have to travel over t.hc->.se r·oads i.n school. buses, bi.~c:k and forth two or three times a day, t.o and fr·orn school, ovc,,r May S, 1988 Vol. XL very, very dangerous conditions. Mi~, SPEAKFR: Or·dc,,r, pl f~asc->.! MR. ~~. CARTER: In conclusion, Ml". SpE~akE:H', may I S r:-1 y t: 0 0 ti'l d t fH' 0 p E'! r' 'l-. y V ;:'lJ. U H S iH' E! affect:E!d, that the health and s r:-1 F (! t y of l: h ''! p ,,, o p 1. c.:' l :-i. v .i. n g i. n l:: h r~ area is affected as .well.

So I IAI o u 1 d s t r o n g 1 y u In g e t h E! gover'n111c,,nl~ 1-.o pdy hc.:,E=!d l:.o t.hj.s petition, Mr. Speaker, giVE! the people cl decent road over which they can dd.VE!, and start treat·ing them like First-class citizens. .?OME __ HON_._MEMB E.~~ : HE,ar, hE!ar! MR.· GILBERT : Mr' . SpE:!dkc~r . Mr~. SPEAKER : ThE! han. thE! membE!r' for Bur'gE:!O B<.·lY d 1 Fspo .ir. MR. GT.LBERT: Mr.

Speaker, 1t. g:i.ves HIE! g1"eat pl.c.~asur·o l-.o ste~nd :i.n suppor·t: of the pet-:ition so ably prE,senl"".C'!cl by lriY coJ.l:~d9llf'! fol" J'I)JJJJ. ·i.ngatc,), as t: once again see h:i.m in th~ d •·~ l: f'! r·m-i. n c-:' rl 1~1r:1 y l: h ;:·l 1: h c.:! I" f~ pI" c,, sf'! n l:'. s t.hE! district: and thE! har·d work he i s p 1 J t. t: 1. n g :i. n r· c.~ p r· f~ s f~ n t t n g 1: h E! pE!ople of the d:ist:rict of TIJJi.J. 1 :i.nga i-.e;!. It: is a shame, Mr. , SpE!aker, thdt l·.:h-is ·is a fa1nJ.l.i.ar' cr·y i.n Lh·.Ls petition.

Rural Newfoundlanders a r· e bc.:, i. ng l~. r' e i:d: E!d t.l'l"i. s I~Ja y by a governrne,nt that has an I ins:i.dE! thE! o v c,H' p iJI s s 1 HIC'!.I'l t a 1. L 1:. y . T. b c;! Li. (! v e that thE! Minister of · Hea1th 1 s philosophy i s the one they are using. He believes in St. John 1 s. W1=:! SC:H! a govc;!J"rnnc,,nt: that can spend $22 m:i.l.lion t:o grow CLICIIrrlbC;!t'S .in MOI.II'll: Pc,1iH'l, but. yol:·., No. 30 R1573

t:ht~y CiHHlOl·: f-i.nd lfiOI'lf~Y to put :i.nl :o the roads in rural Newfoundland. As Uwse ·170 peopl.~1 fr·om F;:dr·banks have said, thejr cars are cl e p r e c i. a i: e d a n d t o r· n 1.1 p b y d r• i. v . i. n g OVE!r thoSE! roads; Their children iH'<-?. pu 1': i.n dang<;!Y' by hav i.ng to go on those r·oads and school buSE!S, and yet: W<-?. have a ~>'i.tuaU.on 1~1her•e th<;! gover·nmE!nt can find monE!Y to spend on foollshness, llke tha 'cutt:.:i ng E!dgE!' of technology, as 1·: h <~1 P r E:!lll i. EH' tal. k E! d i:;t b 0 U t IAII'H~Hl T talked about Sprung.

He said it l~.J<'1S so f<iiY' ddvancc:!l.i l':h;:·1 t-.. hf'! sa:'l.d :i t IAI a s cl ~w <-:1 J o p e d i n D -:i. s n e y W o r 1 d . T hi.~Vf:! r.1 fE~(-;1l.'i.ng t:h;:~t. rnc:1ybn -i.t: wc:\s, and MickE!Y Mouse u.1as t:l'lE! f,:!l.l .OtAJ tAiho f~ng:i.rH~f'!rf~d 'i.l~. Mr·. Spedl<er·. W h f'! n I~H~ I: i-1 l. k .::1 b o 1 1 l'. r· o d d s 'i. n r· 1.1 r· r:-1 l Ne1~1foundland, they hi:lV<-:1 no l:. go 'I: a pol.·icy. rhc;!y hdVE'! noi·.: got i'1 pol :i.cy for· pavin~~ roads :in r·ur·al NPIAif.oundl.;::,nd, fl-1r. ~)pf~<:~kel".

Thf" Audj tor·-GEHlEH'i:!l' s r'E!por· L said that +:h~H'(-;1 1~1.:~.s no pol.·i cy or· pr·ocE!dure in the department for dispensing funds to pave roads. W<,1, as mernbE:1rs of t:h:i.s HoiJse, get. these requests from our constituents, as the member for Twillingate did. And it is a conl:.i.nual th'i.ng. The rn~~rnbE!r' for· TwjlJ.ingate is working twelve hour· s r:~ day ·for· the pea p l <:~ of his district to try and make this government understand that they ar'E?. ,~ural NeiAJfoundJ.andE!rS and they h i'\1 v ,,1 s E.~ r i. o u s c o n c ~=! 1" 11 s l': h <:1 I··. s h o ul d bE! r..\ddressed.

Th~:!y pi:·1Y i".hr~1 S611f1(,1 r.axos pa:id :in Si·. John's, but 11 o l·: g f~ l: 1: ·i. n 9 1'. h r-~ b r.~ n c:d::-.i. L . 1:: h i.•1 1: they Th.i.!; IAI !·1 <-?. r· E~ t. h C'! p r· o b J <-:~ rn j, s . gour-H'nlllr~nt: h;:~s l.osl: ·i.Ls St:Hl!.>f~ cJ:i r· <-:1 c t j o n r.ll'l d t h e y iH' 0.1 t r· y :i. n 9 b 1.1 y L h f;! p f'! 0 p 1. (~1 I s v () t f'! !; I~ I :i. t ·. h dY'f:! a Y'E! ~j s The oF t.o t·.hl;! tax dolJ iH'S f1"orn aLl over· L 1 5 '7 lJ. May 5, 1988 Vol. X I. NH~.&Jfoundlc!tnd . The government will spend $500,000 on press secretari.es. That $500,000, I would subm:it, Mr·.

Speaker, would do r!l lot to the road in Fairbanks. For this r·E~ason, .i.t shoul.d b<~1 looked after. I hope now, Mr. SpE!akE!r, when the M'i.n'.i.sl"E'!r of Tr·anspor·I~i'll·.: · i.on -I do not. SE!B him here, but. I am sur·e hE:! 1~ri. lJ. b f?. h e I" f;! l:. 0 Y' E! s p 0 J'l d ·I·. 0 L h i. S petition - I hope when he rises in h ·j_ S fl l. d C E~ {: h i:~ i:: h f;! IAJ :i. 1. l.

S I I p p 0 Y' 1:: this petition and say that when he r·el.easns l·:hH ne~xt good i.H l..i.s 1:: on road u p g r· ad i n g i n N E!IAif o u n d] a n d , l:hat. t:hr~ r]ood pE~oplr.:! of F;:-1i.r·banks are going to get: thE! just:.J.CE:1 Uwy dr-~!;Hr'IJH ;:-1nd t·.hr.~ rnf~Jrlb('!f'' !; har·d IAJor·k .is going to be rewarded. So, T hopr.~ aT1d support ~')podker. l:hf'! ndnistoJ" IAri."'.l s !':.and this pet:i.t:.:i .on noJAI, MJ". SOMF HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER: Are there any furLher pet i ttons? MR. FUREy: Does anyone from the other side want to support that petition? Orders of the Day p ~-· ...

CO Lll.N..§ : Mot:.:ion 3. The MeE!Ch LakE! dE!batE:!, Mr· . ~:lpf~·:·II<C'!r. MR. SPEAKER: Tha hon. the Min-i.sl':er of Mines adjourned the debate. ThE~ hon. the Mini st:.er of MinE'!S . MR. DINN: No . 3 0 R 1 1)7 I.J.

Mr. Speaker, it is VE!rl} difficult when you get-. ""i.nto a debat.(~ i3.s important as thE! Meech Lake Accord to r E:~ a l.l.y car' r' y o v <:H' f I" 0111 one d r.~ y t.o another'. In other t..uor·ds, you gel: hr.df of your· F1::ll~l r'<~Hii.H'ks in on on l!:~ day and t he n ad j o IH' 1'1 the d<:~bi'li": E! I r:-l nd ti'HHl IJOII c OIIIH i. n Lhc:~ nE~xt day and you haVE! onJ.y half l:he 1·: i.Jilf:l .in wiTi.ch l:o geed: in dl.l. thH arguments that you want lo IIJr:-\kc,~ on 1--.h<:' Mc-?.Hch l.;'li<c:1 Accor·d.

T I•JdS ~;;:·\ying l .i'ISL c:l;:·\y l:hr:~L T Fot.Jnd that thH ar·gurrH:~nts of those o p p o sod 1: o L h c,~ ME!<-?. c h 1. ;:~ k c,~ A c cor' d Jacked some credibility, in my o p i. n t on , t~ s p E! c i. ally 141 "i. t. h r e s p <,1 c t to what has happened here in the 11otJse of Assembly. Whdt. has happened here in the House of ASS\::!Hibly s·ince the Meech Lake Accord came in - MR. TUI K: T '" l k a b o u t 1:: h E:1 d ··i. s t -i. n c t s o c .i. (~ t y , · r101.4l' MR. DINN : The hon. the member for' Fogo just now .inter ·r· up·r.\:1d and br·okc.:; l:hc." ruJ.es of the House again.

Since the Meoch l.dkB Accord wAs passed what basicaJ.ly happened hc·"J"r," :"i.n Nc,1t•lfOt.lndli.Hld :i. s 'l:h:-i.~;: Tht~ L:i bc,H'i"'l Patn·(-:y undO!" the For·mc-?.r' 1 Or:Hit,H' Si:·\"i d, 1:\lc,1 d<.:JI''I,H'! 14lj [·:h Uw M~~~~ch L.'akc-:'! Accor·d and IAle IAr.ilJ Sllppor'l: Lhr'll:. rhH hon. l:hr,:! lfl(, ~ lllbt-H' for Fortune Hermitago, I b c.:d. i r,:! tJ e , l;t:d. d c\1-: o n E! i: :i. uH~ t h a 1': h ~ ~ supported Meech Lake. Ml~. SIMMONS : Where? irJhE:~re? MR. DINN: ------I do not have to find it. ThE! hon. rn c;! m b c~ r c,1 i 1.: h E! r· k rlOIAlS t.ha 1:. he dJd or he di.d not.

One IAIOUJ.d think, then, that the 1...1575 May 5, 19138 Vol XL people opposite, the Li.bE!ral Party in NE:1tuFoundland SIJppor+-.ed McH;!ch Lake. Now they say they did not: suppor· ·t. M~~ech l..r.\kc-:'!, ;:Hld nOIAl l::h~~Y have a different position. So, Jet. us Si':\IJ th(~l-. th<:lt "i.s t.:r·uc-:'!. Just th:i.s t..ueek thE! lE!adE!r of l·:. hE! I _.;, I:H:! r i'l l. p i.~ r i: y s r:•\ "i. d I I I E! 1:. 1.1 s q e t together as Liberals and suppor·t., M t' . T u t' n ('! t' . I. Co1 t. t I s s l: 0 fl i'l 1. l 1:: h "i. s b-j ckering herE! in Nel.llfound1and and 1·: h r' o 1 1 g h o 1 1 t-.

C d n i'\ c I ,,, IAJ -L t h r' r-:! s p ~'! c l:: t o the Fed~~raJ. I...E!aclE:1rship, J.~:d: us s l:op . i'\ll. or l:h:is and l,(;!t. us s u p p o r t M r· . T u r n e r' 1 • 0 n E! IAJ o u ·.1. d l:h'i.nk hc,1 IAlOtJl.d say l·:h~:!n, lrJ(o!ll., J.,,!l:: US think OVE:H' ME!E!Ch ldl<E!. l .. et. US l h :i. n k o v c~ r· IAlh ~:! r' c~ we;! h i:'J v e differences with Mr. Turner and then we l.ll"i.l.1 either support Mr. TurnE!r or not suppor ·t: Mr. Tur·ner'. 1 Hc,1 dc,1c-i.ch':!d 1 IAIE! tAli ll support Mr.

TurnE!r', IAlhich is V(H'Y d i. f f .i. c u 1. t , b e c i.HI s e:~ , M r· . r u r n (~ r supports Meech Lake and they do not st.tppor·t M~:!E!Ch l..akr-~. I·IOIAl can t:hE!Y thE!I'l say thE!Y cH'E! supportj ng Mr'. Tur·nc·:!t'? MR. FUREY: (Tnaud i.ble) . MR. DINN: 1\J

I) lA)' M t' . ~) FH~ ~~ l< f'! I" ' ~.: h 0 h 0 n . 1'1 !Co~ lr1 ~HH' For St. Barbe wants to interrupt. H~~ hc~s had h-:is t'.i .ITIE! in th-:i.s dobatE! . MR. FURF.Y: Wo11ld Lht=:! hon . l".llP nri.n·i.!;l".f:!r' pf~r·rni.t: a question? MR. DINN : No, .t tAli1.J not: pE!Y'III:l.t. a qt.lo s i:.io n b~~ci:-wsc;! T hdve vor·y l.i.ud . l:.(;! d l·:::i.JrH'! nolA! to get in l:he feiAI rmnark s 1 IAlant: t:o make .i.n l.:h"i.s dc;!bal:e. Il:: i. s a v c~ r· y .i rn p o r' t: a n 1: 1:: h i n g . So, IAlhat hapFH~ned t.l·H~n? TIAJO IAIE!E!ks ago, when the prosent Leader of l::he Opposi.t-.i.on spoke in this debate he said, We do not: support No . 3 0 Rl5'7S

Mt~ech Lake, but tAJE:1 tdil J. not put: Jn ~ny <:Hnr-mdtrrf:HJts, ~~~~>. kno1~1 .U: 'i.s of no usE>. beci!IUSE:1 t:.hE! government:. supports it. What happenerl two IAHH!I<s lr.t't<-H'? The hon. the mernbE!r for· St. Bar·b~:1, pr·ostnnably ·i.n t.he sa me caucus 'I: he mE!mbe r for St:. Bar'i:H>.

"i.s r:l l .. :ibc;!r·al. and l:he Le<'1dc,1r of the Opposition is a U.bE!raJ. jumps up l~o spc,1al< 'i.n l:. he debate and he says, I tArant: to makE! an c.unendments, and hE:' nrade l:hc,1 following amendment: The amendment would bas i cally rE:1cogn:ize, accor•ding to hi.rr1, that Nc;!w Found 1 and and 1 .. a br·c:-ld or· constitutes tAli t. hi n Canada a di.stinct soclety. T believe we are a d:ist:inct socir:1t:.y, and I do not believe we neerl i.t ln an inh~rpretat'.ive clause->. in thE! Meech 1 .. r'\ k r:! A c r: 0 r· d I: h f·l 1'. IAH~ r:~ r· E~ f.·l d j_ s 1·: i n c l: :,oc:i E>. t:y. Mr~.

FUREY: 1111 h a t: 'i. s yo 11 r· ( ·i. n ''' u d -L b 1 c,, ) . i::ll"gUniBl'l-1.., Ml~. DTNN : Thc,1 hon . member· believes I:: hat by p1~I~ L-Lng an 'i.nl:: t.;!Y'PY'E:1i::<.·ll.:i.vr'! clr.~usr->., IAI I'J :i C h :i S liJ h a t t h :i S i S -· i t i S rl 0 t a SIJbsb:~ntLVE:1 cl.aiJSe, "i.t "I.S rHl interpretative clause in the Me e c h 1.. a I< e A c c o r· d '1: h a t t. h a t tAri. 1. l. make a Jot. of difference to thE! per· son OIJt .i.n Fogo, or· l·.hc,1 per·son in P1easantvi11E!.

He knours he is a Nc,1wfoundlr~nder, he knows he Ls di.st:i net within Confederation, and it -i. s not. go"i.ng l::o I'IJ<:ll:·.te;!r' a r•otAI of bE!iHts whethE!r that distinctiveness ·i. s put ·i. n 1:: o an -L n t: c,1 r· p r· e,1 tat ··i. v ~1 clause in the Meech lake Accord. Mr·. Speake,1r, :it . just does not make SC"!rlSt:~. What has happt,11'lt·'!d oppos:"i.I:P does not make sense. Last year 1-.: h ~~ I. i.I:HH' d l P a I'' i': y s 1.1 p poI" 1:: f'! d Me r'!C: h L~ke . l'he then Leader of the l."i.br,H'•'ll PiH'I:y, i·hr>. hon. UH'!

HH:!InbrH' fot" Mount Sc-.io, stood up and suppor·tr-:!d Mr-~nch l .dl<r,1 r:-1nd May IJ, 1988 VoJ. XL presumabJ.y aJ.J. of his caucus s u p p o r· t e d M o r-~ c h Li:'l k e . T k n o IAI t h e hon. member for Fortune H r->.rmi. I·.Hgc->. d"i.d. lh :i. s y t>.<H' a ne,~tAI 1 e ad e r and the n e tAl 1 E! ad E! r s a y s , I do not suppor·t. Mt:!t;!ch Lake, and all the people opposite say they do not stJppor·t. M(!e->.ch Lake->., wJth l:hc~ exception of onE! person, and that one per·son .i.s thr:1 guy IAJho ·is l:.he most consistent opposite.

He said last yec:u· 'T ~;uppor·t MC'!ech Lake' and . ht:! said this yE!ar 'I support MPE!Ch LakE!.' Consist:c~ncy i.g not: onE! of thEdr virtues, so, Mr' . S p r:1 a k E~ r , T h a v 1:1 g r' t>. <:-1 t d :i f F 'i. c u 1 t. y with arguments made now by members o p p o s :i. 1: e 1·: h a 1: 1:: h r->. y d o no t~ s u p p o r· t:. MEH:!ch Lake. And, Mr. SpeakE!r, the only r't::11;1son t·.hE:!y do nol:. suppor·t:: ME!E!Ch Lake, appar'E!ntJ.y, Js I:HH;ause of i·.hc;lf:'. d·i.stJ nr:-L: soc ·i.r'!'l:y clatJse, urh:i.ch is an Jnterpr'Ed:.at-:i .VE! c1aust:! 'i. n l·:hr-:!

Mr'!Och I dkr-~ Accot"d nor:-. i:'t subst:.ant.:i.VE! cJ.ausE!, tt. hc:~s no r·ea] br,1dr· ·i.n'.!J on 1-:hH l; :i. l':tidl .:·i.on . We know that there are cuJ.tural and l.dngu<:~gr-:! tl "i.Ff.(-:lJ"f;!rJCf'!S in Canada. They haVE! bE~en r'E!Cogn:i,zE:!d br->.for'(,1 dnd i-.hr-1!·: "i. s ~ll.l thai:-. interpretative clause does, r·e->.cogn'i.zos t.hH lanqur.·1gE:!S dnd recognizes these things that are al.r·~:!ady IAJ"i.th·i.n t.hc,1 Const..l.tut:i.on of Canada. Mr. Speaker, tl'w · arguments used just do not hold tJJat.er. In the interim, since I spoke last -.in l.:h i.s de.;!bat:e, ~~r.

SpE:!akE!Y', rnany things have happerwd. What.: IAIE! hc:·lVC'! t:o say "i.s, i.f' you r(•acl through ·al] t.:he clauses in the Mr->.r->.ch l.i:·1l<r-:1 Accor·d you have->. l:.o comE! out and say to yourself is this bas'i.r:Rlly good for Canada? Because we are hE!rE! t.oday in Lhe pr·ocnss of btt:i.lcl ·ing 1:-.hE:! nr.'tl·:.:.i.on Canada. We are taking another s t f'! p <:·l 1. on 9 !-: h <:·l 1·: r· o 11 1.: f'! i n C a n ad a . If you Y'E:1ad t .hE!ln al.1, and tAl~~ haVE! r· r-~ a c:l 1: h fWJ rrkll'l Y. l·:'.i.rnr-:! s - d s a 111a t: 1:. C'! r· No . 3 0 Rl576

of fact, we went through the Meech Lake Accord on a clause by clause basJs mnd d.i.sctJssc-'!d i.t and c:lebat~c-'!d it, and so on for long hours, and, M r· . S p «::~ a bH' , t~u~ c d rn f~ 1.1 p IJ.Li. t h t: h c,~ fact that it has to be good for t h i. s c o u n t r y ; :i. t b r· J n g s Q u e b c,, c: back into the famjJy of provinces. NotAJ, shcwJd I be up her'E! praising 1: h 0 f t•l c t: t·: h d t: Q u 0 b f'! ( • "i. s b r:\ c: k "i. J'l 1 t h ~'! p e:w p 1 e 1~1 h o g o t. t o g e t h e r a n d b ;•1 s i. c .:-\ lly r' o b b ~~ d 1 1 !; o f o 1.1 r· h y d t ' o potAIC~~r? That "i!> tAthat happenE!d.

Or 14lf~ g i'l v f~ :i. l: i.·\IAJ.:-1 y , on c;! o t' l: h ~~ o ·1 : hr.~ r' of t.h~~ ar·guiTIE!I'd.:s. Eithc~r UlE! I "i.I:HH' ~~ l. P"' t' 1··. y h ~H' r~ g i.W r"! .i. 1-. diAkl y or· QlH1~H:1C took it . We star·l:ed the p r· o j E:~ c t: , c o tJ l d n o I~ d o a n y t-: h .:i. n g u.r.i th the fJOIAter but: t:.ransmi t it s Olllf:!IAJI'l e r· c,~, and q""'~ be c: s ;:J""i. d you ;u· E:~ not transmitting it. It is star· · t~ed notAl so .i.t has to be finished. They did not nE1got".iatE! i. t:. at. f ·i. r· s t .

T h c,~ y d ·t d no · t~. s i. t doiAln to the tabl.e and say, would you give us wheel i ng ri.ghts? Could you do this? Could you make a dc~al. for· us? No. They negotiated, and while the negoti.ations IAlere go l ng on, they star·ted to get the proje1ct. going . Wh"i.ch :L~; I.~Jhat the· ~ f>r'~:!SSUY'c-'! IAJas, by thE-~ IAJay, for t.h:is government t~olith respect to offshore. f.vc-'!r'ybody '"lcHll ·:r,ld i. t: l:o sl:ru·L:. l .r:!l: :it. go! Do no-t geL th~~ i 1 ~; dot ted r:Hld l··hr->. 1: 1 !> r:t'OSSC'!d. C··i.LJf'l i,-1· i:.lt~old.Y, as Jong as we gc.;!t the fet~ol jobs.

Thd 1: is tlll'h-l l: h~ppn nod '"' i. l:h the llpp~H· Chut"ch :ill. Rut.:, Mr . S~H~dk,:•r·, wr=• .,,.,·id, 1\Jo, l:h·:·1.t ·i, \; not: going to happen in t.:h1s case . Thr:'ll.: "i.s not: go:i.ng t.o happr'!rl. Wo w-:i J 1 gr:1t .it. s:i gned. We· w:iLI. ged: the 1's dotted ~nd we will get the t's crossed and we will get :it. And tAJe got the,~ At.l.ant::i.c acccH'd. Then, :if :it is fet-:lsible, if it is pr·ofitabl.e and i.t go~~ s ahr:HH~. lAte will get the advantages here in l:h'ls Pr·ou:ince. We,~ tAri.ll. not g "i. ue Ll5'7'7 May 5, 1988 Vol. XL lt atJ..Jay t.o anybody.

Thai: oi.s thE! way it should be done on the Upper Chur·ch·i.ll. buL it IAJas nol:. So IAJhy shouJ.d I be herE! in t.his HouSE! of Asst:1rnbly, hf~r·,,~ :i.n N~~IAJfotJndl.and, supporting the Meech Lake accord 1:: h a t b r· -:i. n g s Q u r~ b c.;! c b a c k .i n ? W h y should I care? Should anybody cc:~r·c::~? Bf>. CrliJS«'! ·i. t :is .:-1 nat i .on, because it br·ings that farrril.y of p r· o IJ ·L n c «'! s b c:·l c k l: o g 1:1 1:: l'lf'!r' a g 1-\"i n i:'l n d gr:d:s thE1m all dot.~oll'l to LhE' same h:~blc=! doi.scussing Lh -is ndt·: .. ion 6tnd keep-:i ng th:is nation togE!Uwr· .

And l: hr•ll" . .. j s I~JI·ld l: ·j 1: i s i'l] 1. r't boLl 1:: . T h f'! h o n . l"i'lf'! rn (! 1 n ~H'! r· F cH' ~') t: . B <H' b l"! gets up w'.i.t:.h this arnE!ndrn~ = !nt Lhdt. rr.~all.y doHs noth "i. ng and hC'! knotAJS the amendment does nothing . He kl'lOI~IS hi.!; i:'IHH:!I'l«1HII:Hlt.: dCH:!S l'lOLhJ.ng, yet he proposed the arnendrnent. MR. J. CARTER : He is just a servant. MR . DINN: That is all. They are playing g a 1 n e s , M r· . S p c,~ a k E:H' , IAJ i. 1:: h a v o I" y important issue in th :is ·Pr·ou:i.nce, IAthi.ch i.s not n~~lAl. Th(~Y have;! done it before. But that. is basical.ly, Mr.

Speakc~r·, what:: t:hc,~y ar·e clo·:i.ng in rE1spect to thE! ME!E!Ch LakE=! dCCOrd, 'i':hf~lj i;\Y'f~ pJ,:·llj- i. ng r]drrlE!S tJ.Ji t h t h i n g s t. h a t: a r E! v E! r' y i .tnpoJ"Ldn-1" not: only l.o l:hc:• Pl"ov i .ncc'! of Newfoundland and Labrador but I ~ C) 1: h ·i. s n r:~ t 'i. () n ;:·\ s ~~ I~Jh C) 1. f'! ' 1\lotd, I C:i.Hl undr,H'S l:dnd some'• body IAJho i s c o n !> :i s l: e n t . T h E! h o n . m E! rn b E! r· s dot~Jn 1-. o lTIIj r clr' lHFt· · , "1nd l· ht'!IJ di"C'> way to the l.eft of me, are at: l.f=!;-~s t·. r:ons "i. s i" : f~nt. l.r:-~s t·: yE~ar· L : h~=!y t~oJ(~1re against thE!

ME:!E!Ch l..akE! accord, dnc:l Lhis year they are against the ME!E!Ch l..akE! accor·d. Thc:~y Lc.Jf~r·c;! ;•lgi:~ 'i.ns 1·. i.t l.a!> L: YE'!dt' because the CL.C told them right q u :i. c k , r· :i. g h t off i:: h e s t a r t , t: h e boys got: together up - along, the C 1.. C , a n d s ;:d . d 5 h i. r· l C'! y C i:H' r· j us 1:: No. 30 R1577

c: i'l l. l. c,1 d .:~ n d r· a n g P C'! 1": C:H' ' s c: ll i. HH~ s . They scdd, Pet:.E:1r, You shaJJ not tJoi".:f:! for l":h "i. s. Unions do not-: go along u.d.th :i.t . You know lAiho suppot•l : s YOII, cHlrl you bc~LI:Ot' nul: vote for the Meech Lake accord. That is basically what happened. So PE:1tG:!r', bE:1.irtg '!":.hE! good 1:itt1e fE:1l.l.ow l:hal: h~1 i.s. d·:i.d I)Jhat hf~ IAidS told. So they do not support Meech Lake and T IHld('!r'st.and t.h<:~t; thE!Y did not support it last yeclr and Lhc'!Y do not st.tppor·l : :it t.h ·i.s year. W h a t I d o n o t: u n d E! r s t a n d , IAII'l cl t.

I shall. nevGH' undfH'Stc1nd ·i.s a gr·o1 .1p of ind:ividuals, be they Liberal or NDP, who stc1nd 'i.n Lhc->. i.r plaCE!~; one;! year· and say I support Meech Lake t:hE!n gel". up l·.:h(,1 next y(:!i~r·, b<o1Cai.ISC;! th<-?.n>. j s a nE!IAI J.E:1ader, and to i:l 1nan, w:i. 1:h t:hf'! c-~x Cf~P 1::-i.on of onf'!, s d y IAI e d o n o t s u p p o r· t Me C::! c h I. a k E! nOIJ.J . Dl~. COI..I..fi\J~'): Thr:~t"(~ :is confus:i on on thr.l.t . notAl . MR. DTNN: 0 I'Ho1 i)JfH~ I< 1: l'lf'! I. e d d H r· o f L h f~ OpposJtion says we have to support Mt'. Tl.ll"nc,H'. w(:!

CiHlnol: hi:•\l)('! th:i.s cJjssens:jon in the Libera] Par·ty, IAI ~~ j u s t: c i:·\ n n o t: h ,:1 v ,.~ t h "i. s a n y n1or·c,1. WE:1 haVE! to brj ng this party t. o g E! t. h e r· b e h "i. n d o 1.1 r· f <,1 d ~=! r· d l ll'1CJ.der. HE! says that onE! day, yet 1:: he n ex t d a y h (-:'! doe s no t s u p p o r· t ME!E!Ch Lake. Mr. TurnE!r supports Meech l...ak<,1 bul:. he do~~s not support: MeE!Ch Lake. Hol.IJ is that. comJng bE!hind Lh(,1'.i.r· f'<'!d~~r·al }(,1i'J.d(:!r·? HOIAI :is that tr·y:ing t.o hold thE! l...ibE!raJ. Par·l~y tog(,~thc'!r·? Il-. j1~sl:: is no~ .. Mr· .

Sp e a I< or·, I)H'! !; ;:,u~J 1':. h .i. ~; :incons:i.stE:Hlcy y(~sterday tAii'lE!n the hon. l:.h~::1 .J .• er.~df:!r' of l·.:hc'! OpposiL:i.on stcJod jn h:i.s plaCE! :i.n Lh:i.s House r'!nd +:.al.kf~d ;:·1bot.li:'. Fr·E~f~di)HJ of :infor·rnatJ.on. Th(-:1 Pl"errr:i er· cc:Hno j n and s<'dd, 1 You l~lfH'r-~ t-.dl.k :i ng .:1boul ·. May IJ, l9B8 Vol XI. f't• fHcH:I orn of' ·i. n f o r'Hkll': :i. on . I. r:d: 11 s not be so pompous. Table your sdldr'y. T 1.1ri.ll i:.::tbl.f~ tn:ine dnd you table your· s . ' Do you k notAl 1.1.1ha t. he d 'i. d i.n l · : h:~ Hou~;o, by thc,1 IAid'J, Mr·. Speaker?

In the House he said, 1 No pr·oblf~lfl . T IM"il.l do i.t. 1 J·h'! thought about. :i·t. bf:1tlAIE!E!n l':l·lE!rE! and OIJts:ide l:.ho door·. Outs .id<'! l::hc~ door a reporter comes along and ;:~ s I< s , 1 A r· c;! y o 1.1 go :i. n 9 t: o t. a b l ~~ it?' HE! sa:id, 'No, I am not go i n~~ l:.o ti\\blf:1 :i.t.. T. tnad('! t:oo 1nuch monE!Y J.ast YE!ar. I do not IJ.JclnL the people of Newfoundland to know IJJ hat. I mad E! J. a S t:. y E! a I~ 0 r iAJI'lE' r E! t: he rnonf:1Y catn(:! fr·orn.' 1-!(,1 could no\:. do that, Mr. Speaker, in the House.

Look at the consistency of the pc:·1r·t:y r.·1nd l".hf:' c:ons.i.sl ·c'!ncy oF l.:he .i r· leader. In the House he says, 1 Yf'!S , no pr·ob 'lHIII . J IJ.ri.l l l.: abl.e last year's salary . I have no fl r· o b l. f;! 111 IAI '.'i. L h L h c:1 1·: . 1 A rn i. n 1 1 1·. r" later, outside the House, a I"Hpor•l:f'!t' COllie~; c•\lonq i'll'ld hH Sdy~;. 1 What do you th:inl< of l.:hj .s :1 dE!i'l l:he Pi· ·r~tll"i r-~r· lv·u :l ol' l':abl. i nq your ' saJai"Y for· lc:u;t: YE:H~r? 1 He;! sdyr;, ' l\1 o , no l: 1 no . J 1 n ;:,1 r:l o l~ o o rn 1 J c h mon<'!Y las l:: year·. I cannot Lab1 e rn-i nf~. ' MR.

FUREY: A po:i.nt of order, Mr. Speaker. Mf~. SPEAKER : A poi.nt of order, the hon. the member for St . Barbe. r1rL ___ f_ldB!~_r : I a rn s o r· r· y 1·: o "i. n l: l'! I" r· u p 1: L h l'! h o n . thE! rn:i.nister·, Mr. SpE!akE!I", I knoiAI he lS closing his speech, his remarks, but for· ·Uw rE!Cord, I L~Jas ji.IS1: !J.IOI'ldfH'i. ng i.f l'lf'! IAI'.il.l. be, because it sounds to me l:i.ke he IAri 1.1. I:H:! , tJ o 1.: in r::~ for· 1r1 y i:Un E'!l'l cl rrw n L to see Newfoundland be constituted r'l s i:·\ d :i. s l:"i. n ct-. s oc ·i. f:! t:y? No, 30

has r·erna"i.ning, u1ould address I the wonder· t f ame,ndrnE,nt he-?. and L (=! ll. u s IAI h e 1·: h e r· NeiJ.If ou ndland NeulfOLindl.and. he-?. -i_ s or vo Li.ng For against SOME HON. MEMBERS : H e a r , h e a r· ! DR. COLLINS : Mr. ~)Pf'!t:~kr'!t', to t·:hi'll: po ·int: oF o rd (-'! r· . MR. ~:iPf.AI<ER : ro l:hi:'ll: poinl: oF Ot'dl'!t', tl·w · hon . the,~ M:in:i shH' of Hc"1<:tll.h. DR. COl.

U:NS : Thi:tt JS i:t cJei:lr abusc-:1 of Lhc,1 r· Ill. f) 5 I I.AI h i. r: h h d s 0 c cur· I" f~ d fr'c-?.quently on the other sidE:1, and i. 1:: h d s <'1 1 r· t! d d y b o r,1 n b r· o Ll g h 1: 1: o Your HonoUJ" 1 s cltt:C'lnt:ion. ThE!I"e ·:Ls dbsolutely no po ·i nt of ordr:,r· 'LhE:H'E!. ThE:1 hon. membE!r knE!IJ.J there wMs no po i nt of order, yet ho persists :in interrupting my hon. fr·j.end. MR. SPEAKER: Or·der, plE;asE;! ThE!re is no point of order. It is j u s t. a d i. f f c-?. r e n c c->. of o p i. n i. <.Hl bet:IJ.IE!E!n t.IJ.IO hon. gentlem<:HJ.

The h on . l": h ~) r"':i. n :is t r'! r of M ·i. n I·~ s . Ml~. DT.r-:!_~: Mr·. SpE!aker·, · t~hc,1rE:~ :is no point of or·drH', but: t:I-JC:!J"r'' ·i.s dn . :~U:r=nnpl". by "' n 1 C! m b c;, I" o p p o s :i t e t: o f n t c-:~ r· r· u p L 1.1Jht:·1l: T dHI s.'1y-ing. T ··1111 !;l:dt'l: ·ing t.o gt:1t t.o h:im. The po'.'lnts iH'~:! S l:iH' 1: i.nlj l:o bOiH' ciOIAJI'l Ol'l h.i.lfl. 1·11:! '.'i~; siar''l.:-ing to wondc~~r· nOIAI about·. h"i.s lr,1.:-1dnr· 1 s 'Lncons is l:r.:,nc:y.

Hn dOC"!S not want th:i s 'inconsj sl:E!ncy of b o 1':. h h 'i s l. c;, d d f;~ r· <\1 n d h :i. s p a I" t: y opposjte exposed to the people. T h a t. i. s IAJ h a t h <:\ s h a p p ~) n (~ d . ~> o i n order· to stop that, so this exposilton cannot take pl.~ce, so 1..1579 May 5, 1988 Vol XL l::ha t·. 1::he:~ debai:e freE!ly, he breaks llouse. cannot go the rul.E!S of on t·~ hE! PE!Opl.

f) may nol:. knoiJ.J i.l~, but. t:hE! han. member just got up on a s p u r· i. o 1 1 s p o :i. n t of o r' cl E:! r· a n d b r· o k t:! the rules of this J.E,g:ishd:urE:!. T h ;:~ t~ i. s IAI h;}) 1~ h e d ·i d . H c->. g o t: u p i. n the HouSE!, Mr. SpeakE!r, l:lE!Ci'.l.USE! 1'. h P p o ·i n t: s IAH'! r' n s 1: "' r· t: i n g '1': o . h .i. L home. He knows Lhat last year II 1'1 d f~ r' I) 1'1 I) 'J. 1·:! d d f'! r·· h f'! <:'1 q I" C! (c~ d IAJ"i. 1:. h Meech Lake, and t.hJs YE!ar, w:it.h a 1'1 I'! IAI l. I·) i:) d (~ t' lA) h () a g r· E! e w:i. 1:: h ME! e c h c hdngn IJ'i. s l!l'i nd.

S i'1 y S IAH'! d 0 l'l 0 1:". LakE!, hE! had t.o TIJ.JO IJ.JE:1eks ago h'.is lE!adE!r sa:id, w~~ do not: d(]t'fH~ w"i.t:h Mc-~c,~ch l..al<r:' but "LhE!rE! IJ.J:i] 1 be no amE!I'ldrnen t:s, and hf~ ~~et·.s · 11p not·: knowinq, l S1 .1ppo1;(,1, 1.~1 h a t. h :i. s 1 e ad e r s a :i. d , '"' h J. c h p o i n t: s o 1 1 I~ t·. h r~ i. n c o n s j, s t.: ~'! n c y , a n d h r:! says, I want to propose an a rn ~~ n d 111 C'! n t. . So , 1". h (,~ IAJ h o l. ~'! c o u n i~ r· y stopped and waited to see whal l::hts hon. lfi(;!Jnbc->.r' hr:,1d t:o say ....

IAihat:·. amendment has he come out with now that IJ.Ii.l.l. makE:~ l.hts counl::I"IJ grE,ater? He IJ.Jants to changE!, Mr. Speab.H', an i.nh"H'pr'E!tat Lvc;, cliHJSE! that does nothing. NOIJ.J, that. :is I~Jhi.~t f·.hc.;! hon. Jfl(c1lllb~~r· l"i.kE!S to IJ.Jaste his timE! on, a·ctually, doing nol·:h:-i.ng. Mr. Speaker, it was only a few yc::!ar·s dgn no1~1 t-.hdt hc:• sl".ood ·in thois House t:hE:1Y ar'E! g~:!l :. t .. oing a 1. · i. t·. t·. J. r'! b i. l : n 1,~ r·

I) u 11 s n c:>~~J . T h Eo! y i'l r· ('! s ·t: a r· t :i n g 1": o c 1·1 ~~ c k t h E! t:. :1.111 E~ <:< 1.: 1:: h P t: "' b l n . iJl r· . S p r~ d I< H I" , l: h i ~:; ~; i. d <'! • supports Moech L akE• l:lE!CausE:! ME•och I di<f'! hc-~l. ps i"o b11·i.Jd l:h.i.s COIII'l'I:I"Y. That is what it does. It helps to lfli:-1 k f'! Uris n;:-11- ..-i on g t'ed !".. l t... ·i. s anot:.hE!r stE!p along thE! PI"OCE!SS of nd l.::i. on hooti, n.:-1 l·. ·io n bu oi. ld .·i. ng, rJ!J". SpE!akE!r'. MR. SPEAKER: T 11-e h on . 111 e 111 b CH' 1 s t i rn E:1 has e 1 a p s ~:! d . No. 30 R1~)79

MR. fHl\JN: How unfor·t:unrlt.:E!, Mr· . Speaker·. I ~~~;~1s j11sl: C]f~l:L · ing 'i.n f1.1ll. s'l·:r·"i.dP.. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMONS : A poi.nt oF or•d1:!t', Mr·. ;)fH~. :-11<rH'. MR. ~'lPFAI\ER: A p o -i. n t~ o f o r· d r,H' , 1: h e h o n . t 1·11~ ru c-?. n 1 b e 1n f o r· F o r· t u n e -· H E! r m 'i t a g e . MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speak-er, ThE! gE1ntlEnrmn lAJas not qui l: e r· ·i. g h t . T was c he c k i. n g 1': h P timE! for thE! oppos:ite reason.

I di.d not: lAJant. l':.o 'i. nt~H'r'U pt h.i. s bril1iant trend of thought, so I tAla s wa i. t. 'i. n g t "lll. h E:1 had f :i wi. s I'H'!C~ to make my point of order. I wo 1.1l d l :i. k e , for t h <-?. b r:1 n <-:J f i. ·t. o F t. h r,1 House, to correct something the g<'!ntl_c,Hnan Si'li.d. I hi'1Vf'! "' transcript which I am going to pass OVC'!Y' to h.i.111. l-lr-?. quol-:os lrlf'! as s ay :i. ng c er·t:a::i. n -1-:.h:i 1·1g s . What. I ~; ;~1 ·:i, d , •'1 n d ·i. l: i. s h f'! r:-~ r· i n H r~1 n s ,,, r· d , May 4, 1988, page RJ7'71, I sa-.i.d T h ~'!

M f~ o c h 1 .. . :-1 k r.:1 h .:1 s ' f r· i g h l". r.:1 n .i. n g :iruplJca ·t-.ion!;. It: IAJas donE?. at; gr·f~at-: cos!: ·For· Uw counl:r·y. II: has tl·1c,1 effc-?.ct of IAJ(,1i:lkerd ng the Confr.:!dl-~l"r:•11: · Lon •'11 ~ gr'Hr'll·. f~XPf~ns::! lo Pl"ovin .cE?.s such as NE:HAJfoundJ and and 1.. t:·\ b r· et cl o t' . 1 T h ~=~ t' r-:~ i. s IJJ h a l: T s a ·i d ~ i'Htd it goes to sho1.u, Mi". SpE1aker·, how 1:-.h;:~l: 1n:ini. st:~H' 1~1i.ll s<·1y whdtever• :is convE:Hl:i.ent, IAJhethE!r ti'HH' <:1 <H' e f ~~ c t: s 1: o s 1.1 p p o r t·. i. t o r· not, to makE! h:i.s point..

But I IAJO ul. d l i. k c,~ h i. rn t. o l. o o k at t h i:.-t t. , and he might IAiant: t.o retract and apol.og i.ze l·:o l·:he Ho11Sc:! For· m-.isinforming the House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hedr', hE1ar! MR. ~3PEAKER: To the po:i.nl of ordE1r, the hon. the Minister of Mi.nes. MR. DTl\Jl\1: ----···- Mi:~y S, 1988 VoJ XL OblJ-i.Oilsl.y, l:hr:1l"r~ is no po:-i.nl: of o r· d E:~ r . W h rl t Ht (,1 h o n . rn E! rn b e r h cl s donr,1 I" i.'::Jh t·. no1~1 -; s .:-19<'1--i.n br·<,h·1k l:-.1-H:o rules of the House with a !;pltr'l'''i.ol .ls po ·i.n·l: of Oi"df:ll".

ThE'!Y'(;! is no poin l of or·d~:~r and -t:.hE! hon. lfl(~ mb e r· k n OIAJS i. 1:. MR. SPEAKER: Th::o hon. t:l-u~ rn~:orni:HH' for· For·t:urH:o - HE1rrni tagE!. Mr~. SIMMONS: ·Mr-~S"j;"eaker, just in cas~:! rny po:.i.nl of or· d c,1 r IAJa s no l~ u n d <:! r· s t: o o cl by t: he member for Pleasantvi.11e, my po:i.n t.. J. s t. h a t -1-: h c,1 nr i. n i. s t ~=~ r· 1 rr.i. s ·:i. n F o I" rn e d the House and that: is a br'E•ach of I.: he the r·u1.<,1S. You cannot rn..i.s-i.nfol"ln House. I ne1ver· said hE! d(,1l-i.bE:1Y'ii\l--.<-?.ly m.J.s Lnf'or'Jned l:: hr:!

House, l'Hl cause tl}at. lAJould rE!C(tli r'E'! soJnr.~ pl•~1nn.i . ng on h:-i.s par·t. Bul--. he misinformed the HousE•, and hi':• sho1 .Jld bH dskr.:1c:l 1':0 Y'f'!-1-:Y'dCt.: dl'ld apolog:iz(• fo1n l:.ha!: blf.ltant rn:'Ls:i.I'Jfor·lnr:'l·l·.ion. MR. J. CARTER : To the point of order, Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: To 1--.h,~ p.o 'i.n 1: of nr·dr.:1r', l::hH hon . the member for St. John 1 s North. MR. J.

C8JrrER: Tl: is well known !:hat lhe hon. gentleman opposite is always saying l:h:'Lngs undor his breath, and hOIAJ do lAJ8 knOIAI that: IAJhat is printed 'i.n Hansard bears any resemblance to what he actually sai1l. T suqg<:1SI: l::hi:'1l: h~:~ pr·obabJ.y _ sai.d a J.ot morEl than the rnin:i.stE1r f.~ c c u s e s h .i. rn o ·F . MR. SPEAKER: To that point of ordE1r. The point . .i.s IAH-'!1.1 t::al<~:!n, bul~ I do not: l::h:ink the minister had any intent, if thf~l"f~ · ~~IdS any. Thf:!l"!~ 1. s no po.i .nl:: of order·. No . 3 0 RlSilO

The hon . UH:1 lflt~mi:HH' for Bonau i. s ta North. MR. LUSH : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear·! Ml~. LUSH: Mr. Speakc~1r, 1.o~.1e just heard as ·i.ndE!p l··.h an analys t s and pr·ofo11nd di.ss(:H'tat::ion on ME!E!Ch Lake, I say, i'IS IAI.i.l.l fWC;!r' br,1 hf'!i:'\l''d dCY'OSS l:h.i.s counl.r·y. ~)0r.IJF liON. MI:.MB F l?~'i : Her.a·, hear· ! MR. I..LISH: Mr·. ~FH~i'1krH', I~JI'ldl: "'d.i.!lSfH'l:~11-i . on on ME!ech Lake,~ . J knoiAI Senr.d~ or for'SHY IAJi.l.l. bf~ dl~1f11l.l . y S<"·1d l":h,··1l: hl'! rn:i s !> E~ d t h C.;! speech . SOME HON. MEMBCRS: Oh, oh! Ml~ .

LUSi1: He will be awfully sad that he missed the speech of the han . gentleman with his profound dissertation on Meech Lake. Mr. Speaker, what we heard today was a latter-day Socrates talking about the constitution. Mr. Speaker, qu:i te obviously thE! gc~11TI-.l.c~Huan does not tJndE!r's"f:-.,~nd the;! Cons t.i tution, does not haue one cl.1tr-~ of what: i.s in ·i. t:, or· . :·11~ lf~ d s t It(:~ dj d not d E:HTion s tr·a te it herE! 1·: 0 d d lj , i. f h f~ k 1'1 OIM d 1'1 \) t h :i 1'1 g db 0 II 'i: ME-l(!Ch ·1. ai<E~. II- -.is i:l gr'E?.i:.tt p:i.t.y, Mr·. Spc~1ai<E:lr.

I s,:·\y, Cod bl.1 ~ <;s us Rll Jf ol : h1~r· gE~nt1c~lmE~n CIY'E?. votJng for Mc:lE!Ch I .. :~ I< c~ d n rl n o t-: u n d n r· s t A n d :i. n 9 a n y IIIOI"e i:4bou 1: j t·. UliHl thE:~ hon. gr·:!nl~ l. c,1rn;:~n 111f1o j11st spoke on i. l·. , b~~cause he cf:id not demon s t:rate, r"' Y' . s p ~~a k ~:! r I t. h i'l I: I·H:! 1.1 n d e r· s l". () (J d 1..1581 May 5, 1988 Vol XI... one i.ol:a . Wha 1: d ·Ld he talk about? He tc::1l.ke~d about. l·.:hc-?. sal.ar·y of t::h~£~ Leader of the Oppos:iti .on.

HE! tal.kc-:ld about IIJhat . l:he l.c,~ader· said J.ast year and I.>Jhat thE! ]eadE!r ts sayJng th.i.~; yer.u·, as i.f tha ·t. had some relevance on u.JhE!rE! u.w stand ·today on Me~~ch L.ake and as l: o hou.1 we are going to vote on Meech I_ i·1 I< A . W h ;:·1 l: ;:~ J. o t·. of no n s C'! n s e ! Unmitigated nonsense, Mr. ~) p ~-~ ;·,,!< l·H' ! lJ nnri. l: ""i. 9 ,,, t-:c-:!1:1 T111ri\ d d 1. ('! ! T haVE! l'lE!Uer heal"d such twacld1E'! in r:~ 1.1. lilY 1 ·j f C'! . I can on] y say, Ml".

SpE!i.'lh-r·, Jf T d 'i. d not: kn011J whnr·p T sl:: ood on l:: hP ME~ech I akc-:l, after· 1.-i s t erLing l:·.o t:h~" h o n . 9 l·Hl l: l (~ trk11'1 , T c d n 1-: e ll y o u :r: IAIElS s t:i.J 1 n_o morE! E!n] ·ight.E!n E!d. I !;l:.i.ll 1l"i.d no!-: knotAJ IAJhc,~r·r-~ T sl".:ood. But, Mr. SpeakE!r', I s hHld. T !< 1'101~1 I~JI'HH'('! year and I know where yPar on Meech Lctke: SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. LUSH: k n 01.11 111 h E! r' E! I l sl::ood l.a~;l:: I s t:. and t.hJs I know precisely u1herE! I stand. Nobody from thA other side has certainly helped me make up rny rn:i.nd.

The Mi.n ·i.:>i':c:H' of He,~al.l : h (Dr·. CoJ.lins), IAihO 1 IAIOU]d haVE! e""xpc~ctE!d, cor·l:. i~1 :i.nl.y, to havf'! rnad~O! some profound desertation on Meech 1 . .:-~ke, hi s rem.:-~rks were cen t ered iH' o tHI d , a g a i n , 111 ~~ a t. tl'w I E! a d E! r o f the Oppos :-i. l-: ·ion ~;di.d l<'Isl-. ye ;:·1t" ;:'1nd what the~ l~~acler· :is saying t.h:is y 1-~ d r· i'1 nd on l-.: h o F .:·1 c 1·. 1·: hi'11·: IAJc;! h i:~d changc~1d our· st:.J"a-I:E!gy. He~~ sa:i .cl l~hE!

I.Hr:·1dr-~r· of l : hf~ Oppo!; i. t-.Jnn hr:-1d sa:i.d he was not. go:ing to present an r:·HIIfHldtrHHli: <:Hld Hll'!l'l I l.u dl'ld bE!~lO l d' he did. In his view, what a ' cdl.asl":rophf>. :i.n the~~ I .. J. br'!r·al. Par·ty that we had, a11 of a sudden, dAc : idf~d l~ o rnakf~ a 1n-i.nor· dH:ll'l9E'! i.n No. 30 Rl581

~; l:: r·ab.;!<]IJ, that IAH~ IAHH'e go ·i.ng t:o present an amendment. Now, that I~Ja s go 'i. ng t-:o r·r,~ s ul.l: 'i. n fr'd r: tur· 'i. ng and fragmentation of the Libera) P a r· l: 1J d n cl i. l: ~; d :.i. r· e r: 1: 'i. o n ,., n d 1. l: s policy . Mr·. ~)pe.:·1 k r;!J'', t bor·~~ the HousE:~ ~~Jo ul. d lAd Lh not all l~kll'l l: of 1·: (I l: hE:~ chdngr=!S I"E!!)U] t:ed 'i. n i":hf~ and :i. n c:l i. I" t·:! c -t ·. i. o n 1·. h d L h ;:·l 1; t· ~ IAr.:i. t h t h c.;! h o n . g C.;! n t J ~~ rn e n l d s 1': s r,~ v H n o r· r,~ .:i. g h l: y r~ a r· s with their federal counl·.r·H'PiH'l·.s.

I I~JOI.I l d nol". IAJ<:-lnl·:. to do tha t . I could make my full sptH:H:h on !'.hat, biJI·:, Mr·. Speai«H', I want to address the issue. Why d'id lAW preSE!l'lt the amendrn€~nt? I do not know whether hon. gentlemen are familiar with the S tor•y Of thE! SJC.;!I'li:l.r:!llltHl IAJhO IAJdS found beating his donkE!Y t.hj s day. H c,, IAJd s rr:!;·d. '1. y go i. ng .i.n l':o ·'i_ l·.: lAd 1 h a p i c.::~ c P of tt~J o- b y - f o u r IAJ h e n l::h i. s an i.rnal. l.OVEH' Cdi'IH~ r:'IJ.ong !::he;! road and he was quite disturbed by whal': hr:! saiAJ.

Hr=! sai~J i:h .i.s rnan r·ea]]y goJ.ng af'l:E!ln Uw donke:~y IAdt.:h r:·l pi.r~cP of I::I~Jo -·by--four. Hr'! IAJf'!l'l'l: up to l·drn and hE! sa:id, 11 Sir, IAJhat: a r· r,~ y o 1.1 do i. n g ? ~~ h d t "', .. H y o u do'.'ing, abus'Jng that animal?'' He J.oo!o=!c:l i'll '·. hi.1n r·at:h,~r· sur·pr· -i. St:!d •.Hl,.·J Si"':'id, ''l i~rn tr·ying to t r·a:i.ri t:h:is r:Hlilllr'll., Tarn t-.r·y .. i.ng l:o l :r·d·i.n l:hi.~; doni<E~Y. 11 11 Tr·a:i n it, 11 h~=! sa:i d.

II T h '"' l: i. s r:·l p () 0 r· I~Jr:-1 y 'l: () t r· r:·1 'i_ n i. l'. ' II "We] 1," hH said, "I have got to g E~ t: :i. i': s ,.,, t t t:! n t: 'i. o n f :i. r· s l. . " SOMF HON. MEMBERS : H ~~ a r· , h E~ i\1 r· ! MR. LUSH: ---·-·-·-Mr. Speaker, that is IJJhy have this amendment. We-i! want: Lo c;!rnphasi .ze, IAJE! tJJa n t to accentuate and we IAJa nt to expose Lhe fallacy being pr·ornoted by th :i.s government: on the achi.c,~ve:~Jnc.;!nl::s of Mt:!C:1Ch L..ai<H, natnr.;!l.y that.

J.t. ctnE!atE!S equa1:i ty; narn~:!ly that i. 1:. lfl'-'1 I< e s r-?. q 1.1 a l. i t y t:! x i. s l-. a mo n 13 L l 1:.B 2 May 5, 1988 Uol XI.. r'lll oF l: h r~ l~ f~ n pI" o lJ "i. n r: f'! s . T h i. s i. s IAJhy IJJe are prE!sent. :l. ng th:i.s .:·1l'flt~ndlnf:!n1:, l:o h-i.ghl i.ght., 8111phasJ.zP and accentu<-::tt.c.;! that. fallacy. Ml" . ~')pt~r:·11<f:!t', 'l' hr:·1t i.s 1~1hy IAJH dr'e pre s E! n t. i n g t: h j s a tTl E! n d mE! n t . Mr·. ~)fH~··1bn·, I~Jf:! knOIAJ l:hal·.: t.hc;• amendment is not going to pass . Wf:! kl'lOI~J I:IV1i: U : i.s not. r:d.l.()I~JE!d l:. o ·pass.

This IJJas l':.he gr·~:!cd·. dH1IIO c r·r:-1-l' i. r; pr·o r:{·:! s s l': hd i·: I)Ja ~; in'itiated in drafting up Meech l .. i:·1l<f~, t:hr:-1t: l·.hHr'C'! IAJ;:,,s Lobe no debatE! on it.:. The elE!VE!n f:ir s t: ln·i.rdsl':c;!r ' s got l:oq{·~l::her· .i.n st:!cr·el :. and they camE! up tAJ:i.th this ME!E!Ch 1... d I< e i. n o n e d a y a n d p r· E! s (;! n t ~'! d 'i t all the parliament of Canada to be passed, nol:. Lob~~ al.tE!r·r.~d, not: to be changed, not onE! t: not crossed or· a n .i. no 1:: cl o -t:: t·. C'! d , no t a t h i n g was to bE! changed j n this .

Thj s h .;\ d [· 0 b ~~ iii p p r• 0 V f~ d 1'.: h ('! IAJ d y 'i. [:: IAkl S prE!SE!ntE!d. That. IAJas U·lE! process, Mr·. ~)pl~ai<E!r', and .i.l:: i.nd i.cai :: E'! S l:: h~;! weakness in Meech Lake. Is this go :i.ng ·l·.o annudl. thE! kind of t.:htng Sf:!f;! :in i·:.h1c> Fu+.:UI"E! conferences on IA)E! a 1:: <5li"E' l:hE! Lhe consl::i.l:ul:·i.on? ls l:h'.i. ~ ; IAJI'ldr. IAJO ;:u·e to see? Eleven first rntnisLers IJ.ri.l.l. lilr:t kr,' t' t.;! COlnlllonda1:oi.ons l':o bE! sent bacl< 1:o Lhe par·J.:i.arnents and sdy '1\JOilJ, yo1J ,:-,ppl"OVf'! 'l': h 'i. s. Yo11 appr·ove Lhis.

No one t s suppoSE!d l:o dl:!bi~'I::H j 1:. 1\Jo Ol'lf~ :is suppos<,~d to say anything about. it nr~g,:-1l:::i. vnly, jusl· : appl"ovr,,d 'i.l::. ' Mr . Speaker, that is wha t Meech l .. dl<t~ :ind .. i . cat.(~~; can happr'!l'l l".o. Canada in the future. That is IAJha 1:. can happt'~ n l::o d c,ltno c r·a c y .. i. n this Provi.nCE!. It has alrE•ady hi:tppenc.;!d .

WE! carl' sc::~e .i. l:. , and IAJe are · not supposed to change this arnC:Hl d lf1C:1 n 1': , so wh a L·. lAW IAk\ n 1·:. <'! d l·. o do was to high1ight, emphasiZE!, and accr;!ntual:c.;! l::hE! fallacy l:hat ME:!t'~ch Lake ach:i.eve .s tn equality for aJ.:l Pr·ov .. i.ncns, Mr·. Spr,~dk c~r·, b~~cau s r,~ i. l: No. 30

do~~~ nol--. . IL cr'odtes just~ l:I·H~ · lnE.~verse. The fact l:hal-. Qu~;!l:)ec wants -i.l: so vigorously is an indication that "i.t 1.s not mak-i.ng all. oF us eqttal. Why did not. QUE!bec sign The Constitutional Act of 1982? Why did they not do that whE~n all the r' est of i:: he p r· o v inc e s 1:: hough t. i. t was good? Nine of them thought it t~.Jas good, thc-?.y I: bought i.l:: cr·c.;,a l7.ed equality. But. Hw1nE! lAJas onE! that di.d not l:h-i.nk, Mr·. Sp(;!akor, t:ha ·t. j t. cr·eated Co!qUr.lJ j t.y.

So they did no 1:: c o rn 1;! , 1:: IH! y d i d no 1--. c o IIH:1 1.1 n l~ i. 1. recently when they advanced five C 0 n d i. [-. j_ 0 rl S 0 n I~J h :i C h i": h (.~ y I~JO 111. d j o:in l.he cons t:i tut:ion ancl thE!Y I~JOIIl.d bOCOliW flrH't:nr;!t'S of t:l-w Const:i t.ut::ion of C<:~nada. F ·i. v ,,1 con d i_ t .Lon s , M r· . ~'3 p r'! ;:-ll< CH' , h r:11~J fltt'tny d:id Lht:'Y gEd:.? Nt:.~got:i at·:Lon j s rH;! g () l: L-.. , I: "i. 0 n rHl d q u H ~)1-~ c s ,:-1J d I h .:~ '1: t hE~y IAJdi'Jt:E~d f:i VE! concLi t:i ons. T h E>. f i V E:1 C 0 1'1 d j t :i 0 n S lA I EH' e t h E!

S e : R E~ cog rd. t: :-i. on oF a d i. s 1: .i. n c t soc i . E~ 1: y wh:ich I wilJ deal with in a 111omc;!l'1 t the r· ·i. g h 1:. to nom h1a h:1 some Supreme Court justices, l. :i.mi.l:ed, bt.ti: d "i.s t.i.nc t pot~J~'H'S OVE:H' national immigration policies, 1.-i.mi.t.s on f<-?.dc-?.ral. sj:>enr:J-i.ng 'i.n areas of provincial jurisdiction, and l:hc-?. most cont.r·ov<·H'S i.al. one of all, a ne1.11 amending for·mula. Mr. Speaker, these were the Fi.ue condit:i.ons.

What was so great about these five c o n d U ·. i. o n s 1": h a 1: 1: h o y tmH' r-~ g o i n g I: o create equality if the equality d-id noi-. r-~x i . ~; l:? 1\l"i.nr~ pt'OlJ"i . ncn~; hc·ld pt"~~v:iotjsJ.y s:igl'tC:~d and now QUE!bec t:OirtHs 11p tAril:h f"i.vr-:! t:ond"i.L""Lons, Mr·. SpE~ak(-?.t', by IAJh :ich t·he:1y IAI:lll enl:('!r t·:hH consL 'i. l:ttl :"ionr'll r:-lCcot·'d. Hut~J rlliHty d".i.d t:IH-?.Y ge::>t? One? TtAJo? () I'H:1 IAJO U 1. d 1'1 d

l) U 1: h 0 II g h [: -j n ne::1got:-i at :ions that tAIH gaVE! th(:~rn 1-.:I'H'~H!. HOIAJ lrldny did t·:hr-~y gc~ 1:? L1 SH3 May S, 19HH Vol XL r h e y g o ;~ l. l. f .i. v r-~ , M r· . ~) p e::1 "' k (:H' , a l. 1 five of them! No wonder they carne! Mons -i. r-:t 1.1 t' L e P r' E! s -i. d r,1 n t-. , :i.l n 1 y a pas de personne au Canada qui veut., qu"i. d(-?.s"ir'E~ que;! la pr·ov i.nce du Qu~bec entre La Constitution du Canada plus que uto-L, plus que mo:i! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Heal", hE!ar! M fi.~_JJ,! S H : . . , J r,1 v r-~ u t··. , J r,1 d c.~ ~; -:~ .

I" P q u r'! l. a . p r· o v J. n c t:! du QuebE!C ent:r'E! l_a Const:itu-t: .ion du C rHl d d a -j, liiHIC'! rl J. db~ trH=! n [-. ! SOME 1101\.1. MFMB E RS : Hear·, hear·! M~. LUSH.: M i~ j s , M o n s j e u In 1.. (~1 P I" e s j d E! n 1 .. , n f'' p .:-1 S p 0 I I t' d f'! p t' H S 1'1 0 I I <; n H p 0 1.1 U U 1'1 ~; pas VE!ndr't:1 le magasi.n. Mr·. Sp(:1akE:!r', l .hE:!r'(;! J s not:. a pE•t"s on in ·Uds I r·: !~.r·i.~;l.dl.:llr'H t•.Jho ''Ji"'tnl-.:s QuebE~c to be a par·t of l:.hE'! Const.i.'l-.1 .1 Lion trtOI''f'! than t:. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR.

LUSH: I expect I understand the Province of Quebec as much as any member in 1:-.hi.s hun. HotjSC:1. I tJndc,1r't:ook l:o make myself conversant: with the Fr'(~nch J.angl.ld9< :1 lrti.,lny, tnany year·s ago . I made rny living by t:E:! aching Fl"ench . I l:attght: i.n Chur·ch ·iJ.J. Falls which had a French conurtt.lrdl :y . T h·11.1 ghl·: Fr'E'!n c h t.o .

E n g 1 ::i. s h a n d E n g 1 :i s 1·1 1-: o F r<'! n c h . l t•J·~·lS -i. n Cht.lr'ch:i.ll F;:·llls 1~1 · i t-.·.h th i.s Quebec community at one of the tuosl: r:t"tl(i, :-ll l:i.nH:!s -:in :i.'l:s hist··.or·y, dur:ing the time of Lhe FIQ llpr·:i.s ·i.ng, !;!) f ht·ll)H f;!lnpr:·ll··.hy r::ll'ld sympathy for the peop] E! of QtH~bnc .:Hlrl r. I~Jo:-Hl'l: l:hurn Lo be:! r:-1 p<H' 1·:. of t h E! Co n s t ::i t.: u t :i. o n b u i:. , M r· . S p E:! a k E! r· , "i.t i.s not: Ftl": r•1ny pi".i.r;r,1 . No. 30 RP..\83

SOME HON. MEMBFRS: Hear, hear! MR. I USH: Mr. Spc.~akfH', Q1.1dH~c <j(~ l:s :i.n under· ~.hEl conclitton that they be r· c.~ cog n oi. .1. <,~ d ;:t s i:1 d i. s L ·inc 1: soc :i.e l: 1J . Ot.ll" f.Hii(Hldrnent :is t~s ld ng thclt. Nr-:li~JfOiinrlldnd be,~ Y'('lCOgn . i . 7.1~d r'IS r:·1 distinct society as well. SOME HON. MFMBfRS : Hc~i'll", h<o~ar·! Ml~. LUSH: Mr·. Spc'li:·1k<·:lr', t•Jh;:·1l: -i. s l":i'lf:l HH'ldSIIt'f~ for distinctiveness? Who says t h '" L 'i. t. llti.l s ~. a J.wa 1J s ~H~ a lJ ngu:ist:ic rn~~asure?

Who says that t:he only tneaSIH'e fur· distinctiveness is l..i.nguistics, is l.angut:~gc-;!7 1/\lho says l:. h;:~ 1:., Mr·. Speaker·? Ml" . Speaker, I can say t.:hat N("liAJfound .l.and could i:'ll.rnost. q11al.-i.fy undE!r l.:i.ngu-.ist.:ics. I knot-lt thE1re IAli'l.S t "i.tne IAihHI'l l::hc·H'~~ IAJE!Y'(,~ professors at Memorial University tAJho t:hought l.:h('!IJ had COIIH~ .i.nt·:o r·1 gold rrdn<'! l:lngu:ist:J.caJ J.y. They h ad be c-'! n s e n d i n g s t: 1.1 d (~ n L s ;~ 11 o v c"! t' N~::1tAtfoundJ and tAd 1-:h tape recorders t:o r'<·~ cor·d 01.1r d c c f~ n l~ . R11t, Mt'.

Speaker, linguistics or language c·;:~ n not-: bE:! ·Ulf) on l.y JIW d s 1.1 r' o on tAih·.i. ch tAl('! base dJstinct:iv<'=1ness. Tl·lf~ Pr'etrti.fH' s•~i.d, hJhfHt I·H:! I~JdS spE!alci.ng to Hi'.is, ME1ech LakEl r' f'! Fl. (~ c 1: s r· e r:•1l. i l·y i. n c d 1'1 r:·1 cl a . c 0 11'1 0 or1, :if wear'(~ going l:o r·ef]ect r'Hdl.i.l:y in C;:~nddd, l:h.i.s f>t"OV"inc:(:! is an is]and . That~ is a r'Eli'.ll:ity, Mr'. Sp<,1al<~~r! Pr· · i . nc(~ Ecii~Ji)U"d Island Js rHI island. That :is a r·ealit.y. As r::l r·es11l.t oF bei.ng an island, Mr.

Speaker, we have a lot of d1stinctlvenoss that rnakes Jife pretty rough in this Province . D-:i.st " i.nctJv<-:1n<,~ss, Mr'. Sp<,'akl-:!r', l:hat: makes :i.t a hardsh-.ip many timE!S to l. ·i.v<,1 · .i. n t:h i.s Pr·ov:i.nce. Cannot U S84- May 5, 1988 Vol XI ... that. be cons·i.dc-i!r'ed a d.i.st -i. nct:Jvc;! measurE!? Was t.here no case to be lfli~dc.;! For· our· gc~ogr•aphy? Tt. i.s such an expanse of land so difF"i.cltl.l ·: l:o sc~r·v·lc:f~. Tt ·i.s ~>o difficult to put in public Sl-'!t ' 'V . i . c:<· ~s . Co1Jl.d 1;/f:! not : t"f'!Cogn :i ze that.?

Could that:. nol:. be t' I'! <: 0 g 1'1 J I. 8 c:l ? [ l: i. ~; ~; 0 cl ·i. f F :i. C i.tl. 1-: 1:. 0 provide for transportat:ion. l · lot~J •~bo11l.: 1:1-w ''!CCHl01rti . c dnd ft n ~l n c :i a l p r· o b J E! rn s o f L h j ~ ; P r' o IJ ·i. n c: C'l? A p t" o IJ .i n c: n IAJ·i. 1-: h 1: h C'! hJ.ghest unemployment in Canada, c o 111. d 1·: h '"' t n o l·: rna I< e u s dist:.inctiVEl, Mr·. SpE!akE!r?

Cou1d that noL be considered Lo be a disU.nctiVE! socJety, t:.hE1 fact that IAJE! haur:! 1-:hE:~ l.ar·gest urH'!I'npl.oytnE!nt . , thE1 most. outrageous leVE!}S of un<'::~tnpl.oyrnr:lnt in t-.hE! count.r·y, consiste!ntly and constant:.1y doub1r::• l::he national. average? M~. SpE1aker, that is a cl.l.s t-.:inct .ton t: h H 1:. I ; ~1 rn n o l:. p r· o u d o f , b 1 1 1-. ·i, l:: ·.i. s a d:isttncLi.on and it J.s a pr·oblE!III t h a 1·: h a s l ... o b e d ~~ a l. 1: IAJ'.'i. 1:: h b y 1:: h e nation as a whole! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hf~dr, hc.~t:tr'! MR. LUSH : . Now~ Mr.

Speaker, 1 i. n g tt .i. s 'l: ·i. <: s , l: h ;:·1'1-·. i. s n o 1 ... measure by wh:ich we d ·i. s '1: ·i. n c 1: :i. IJ f~ n <· ~ ~; ~; . J.anguag( :!, l:hc,1 on l y rnea s Lit"( :• What has tbe Premier meant so o f t-. o n ? r h ;:-1 v c.:! h H i.,, , .• cl !". h ('! P r· (;! 111 i (' ! r· time and time again get up .i.~ th:is HOI! Sf~ and SdiJ !".hat l··.h i. ~:; pr'OI.I i.nct=l _ is a dist i nct province, that: we h .:-tv f:l a d J s t· .. i. n c l·: c ul t u r· E! , a n d i'il dtst.inct heritage. Mr. Speaker, h(~ d:i.d not: say 1-.:hat i.n t.hE! Mec;!ch Lake Accord. HEl 'di.d not aJ lov,J for 1:: h a 1: .

H e all. o tAle d q u c,1 b c,1 c t. o s a y t h a t , t h a t t h e y we r· E! d :i. s t i n c 1: . B11t.: tnuch fur·t.:h(~r. Mr·. Spc,1akc;!r', t:he bill goes on and gives the P;:-u•l.·i.arnr,~n-1:. oF Qur)bl':'C pOIAJEH' l:o No. 30 RlS84 -

pr'OifJOl-.e cHid prf~sc,~r·ve l:hc,dr· d:J st :i nct:i venes s, their :idc-:1nt:.ity. Not~l, t:l·H~ ol::hc,,r rdrH'' pr·ovi.ncc·:!S of Ci:ll'li:H:la have only the r"ig ht to pr·esc-:H'V(::1 l::hc~ ch