Manitoba Hansard — 20 May 2015 (Sitting 33, 40th Legislature, 4th Session)

40-4-33

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVII No. 33 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, May 20, 2015 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne, Hon. St. James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Greg, Hon.

Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Thomas, Hon. Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder, Hon. The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie, Hon. Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

899 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 20, 2015 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame su ch laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectl y for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 27–The Veterinary Medical Amendment Act Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Tourism, Culture, Heritage, Sport and Consumer Protection): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development (Mr. Kostyshyn), that Bill 27, The Veterinary Medical Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Lemieux: Mr. Speaker, hundreds of thousands of Manitobans count on a pet as part of their family. Taking a pet into a veterinary clinic can be emotional and stressful.

Bill 27 will help pet owners to ensure that they get a clear upfront price for veter inary care and don't face any extra charges or surprise fees. The bill also modernizes the legislation that allows veterinarians to incorporate their practice and strengthens the role of the regulator. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move on to petitions. Bipole III Land Expropriation–Collective Bargaining Request Mr.

Blaine Pedersen (Midland): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: On November 19th, 2014, the Premier author - ized an order -in-council enabling Manitoba Hydro to take valuable and productive farmland for its controversial Bipole III transmission line project without due process of law. On November 24th, 2014, the minister responsible for the administration of T he Manitoba Hydro Act signed a confirming order for the province of Manitoba declaring that no notice to landowners is required for the seizure of property.

This waiver of notice represents an attack on rural families and their property rights in a modern democratic society. There was not even an opportunity provided for debate in the Manitoba Legislature. In many cases, the private prop erty seized has been part of a family farm for generations. Manitoba Hydro has claimed that it has only ever expropriated one landowner in its entire history of operation. The provincial government has now gone ahead and instituted expropriation proce edings against more than 200 landowners impacted by Bipole III.

Since November 2013, the Manitoba Bipole III Landowner Committee, MBLC, in association with the Canadian Association of Energy and Pipeline Landowner Associations, CAEPLA, ha s–have been trying to engage Manitoba Hydro to negotiate a fair business agreement. For over 14 months, the provincial government and Manitoba Hydro have acted in bad faith in their dealings with Manitoba landowners or their duly authorized agents. Those actions have denied farmers their right to bargain collectively to protect their property and their businesses from Bipole III.

MBLC, CAEPLA has not formed an association to stop the Bipole III project and they are not antidevelopment. MBLC, CAEPLA has simply come together, as a group of people, as Manitobans, to stand up for property rights and the right to collectively bargain for a fair business agreement that protects the future well- being of their businesses.

900 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 MBLC, CAEPLA are duly authorized agents for Manitoba landowne rs who wish to exercise their freedom to associate and negotiate in good faith. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge that the provincial government immediately direct Manitoba Hydro to engage with MBLC, CAEPLA in order to negotiate a fair business agreement that addresses the many legitimate concerns of farm families affected by the Bipole III transmission line. And this petition is signed by D. Fischer, R. Wiens, L. Wiens and many more fine Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Rights of Manitoba Children Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government should uphold the rights of children set forth by the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, adopted by Canada over 20 years ago, to better protect and promote children and their rights and to ensure the voices of children are heard.

Instead, many children in Manitoba, especially those in the child -welfare system, reveal they sometimes feel they have no say in what happens to them. Under this provincial government, Manitoba 's children or youth are following–are falling behind on several indicators of well -being and in areas that would prepare them for better outcomes in life. This year, the provincial government's education system was ranked last for–of all Canadian provinces in science, reading and math.

Under this provincial government, Manitoba also has the second highest percentage of children using food banks of all Canadian provinces and the highest child poverty rate. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities to ensure that all–that the rights of all Manitoba children are respected and that the opinions of children are taken into consideration when decisions that affect them are made.

To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities to correct the tragic systemic flaws that have failed Manitoba children in the recent past. This petition's signed by D. Sperling, C. Reenz, E. Ayoub and many more concerned Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: Just as a reminder, before I recognize the honourable member for St. Paul, that when members are reading petitions they're not to add editorial comments, please. Provincial Trunk Highway 206 and Cedar Avenue in Oakbank–Pedestrian Safety Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: Every day, hundreds of Manitoba children walk to school in Oakbank and must cross PTH 206 at the intersection with Cedar Avenue.

(2) There have been many dangerous incidents where drivers use the right shoulder to pass vehicles that have stopped at the traffic light waiting to turn left at this intersection.

(3) Law enforcement officials have identified this intersection as a hot spot of concern for the safety of schoolchildren, drivers and emergency responders. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: * (13:40) To urge t hat the provincial government improve the safety at the pedestrian corridor at the intersection of PTH 206 and Cedar Avenue in Oakbank by considering such steps as highlighting pavement markings to better indicate the location of the shoulders and crosswal k, as well as installing a lighted crosswalk structure. This is signed by S.L. Leung, J. Ginter, I. Ginter and many, many other fine Manitobans. Thank you.

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 901 Beausejour District Hospital–Weekend and Holiday Physician Availability Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The Beausejour District Hospital is a 30 -bed, acute-care facility that serves the communities of Beausejour and Brokenhead.

(2) The hospital and the primary-care centre have had no doctor available on weekends and holidays for many months, jeopardizing the health and livelihoods of those in the northeast region of the Interlake-Eastern Regional Health Authority.

(3) During the 2011 election, the provincial government promised to provide every Manitoban with access to a family doctor by 2015.

(4) This promise is far from being realized, and Manitobans are witnessing many emergency rooms limiting services or closing temporarily, with the majority of these reductions taking place in rural Manitoba.

(5) According to the Health Council of Canada, only 25 per cent of doctors in Manitoba reported that their patients had access to care on evenings and weekends. We petition the Legislative A ssembly as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Health to ensure that the Beausejour District Hospital and primary -care centre have a primary-care physician available on weekends and holidays to better provide area residents with this essential service. This petition is signed by R. Stefaniuk, D. Stefaniuk, M. Mickey and many, many more fine Manitobans, Mr. Speaker.

Employment and Income Assistance– Rental Allowance Increase Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The rental allowance for people on Employment and Income Assistance, EIA, in Manitoba has remained relatively –remained effectively flat for over 20 years, even while the cost of renting a home has steadily increased.

(2) Despite the many calls from the official opposition caucus, individuals and community groups, and despite the fact that the very same recommendation was made in the final report of the inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the death of Phoenix Sinclair, the provincial government has failed to protect the most vulnerable Manitobans by refusing to raise the ren tal allowance portion of Employment and Income Assistance to 75 per cent of the median market rent.

(3) Fewer dollars to use for rent forces Manitobans receiving EIA to live in a substandard, overcrowded and unsafe condition.

(4) Fewer dollars available for EIA recipients to rent safe and hygienic housing means increased pressure on food banks, the health- care system and other services as Manitoba families have to divert money for food and other critical necessities to pay for the rent.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Jobs and Economy to increase the rental allowance for EIA recipients to 75 per cent of median market rent so that the EI recipient can secure clean, safe a nd affordable housing without sacrificing other necessities such as food and medical expenses. And this petition is signed by S. Stein, A. Ruttan, D. Funk and many, many more fine Manitobans. Minnesota-Manitoba Transmission Line Route– Information Request Mr.

Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The Minnesota-Manitoba transmission line is a 500- kilovolt alternating -current transmission line set to be located in southeastern Manitoba that will cross into the US border south of Piney, Manitoba.

(2) The line has an in -service date of 2020 and will run approximately 150 kilometres with tower heights expected to reach between 40 and 60 metres and be located every four to five hundred metres.

902 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015

(3) The preferred route designated for the line will see the hydro towers come in close proximity to the community of La Broquerie and many other communities in Manitoba's southeast rather than an alternative route that was also considered.

(4) The alternative route would have seen the line run further east, avoid densely populated areas and eventually terminate at the same spot at the US border.

(5) The Progressive Conservative caucus has repeatedly asked for information about the routing of the line and its proximity to densely populated areas and has yet to receive any response.

(6) Landowners all across Manitoba are concerned about the impact hydro line routing could have on land values. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro to immediately provide a written explanation to all members of the Legislative Assembly regarding what criteria were used and the reasons for selecting the preferred routing for the Minnesota-Manitoba transmission line, including whether or not this routing represented the least intrusive option to residents of Taché, Springfield, Ste. Anne, Stuartburn, Piney and La Broquerie.

This petition is sign ed by J. Schreyer, P. Slobodzian, C. Slobodzian and many more fine Manitobans. Province-Wide Long-Term Care– Review Need and Increase Spaces Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background to this petition is as follows: There are currently 125 licensed personal -care- home beds across Manitoba, consisting of less than 10,000 beds. All trends point to an increasingly aging population who will require additional personal-care- home facilities.

By some estimates, Manitoba will require an increase of more than 5,100 personal-care-home beds by 2036. The number of Manitoban s with Alzheimer's disease or other dementia -related illnesses who will require personal -care-home services are steadily increasing and are threatening to double within the current generation. The last personal -care-home review in many areas, including the Swan River Valley area currently under the administration of Prairie Mountain regional health authority, was conducted in 2008.

Average occupancy rates for personal -care homes across the province are exceeding 97 per cent, with some regions, such as Swan River Valley, witnessing 100 per cent occupancy rates. These high occupancy rates are creati ng the conditions where many individuals requiring long-term care are being displaced far away from their families and home community. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to consider immedia tely enacting a province- wide review of the long- term-care needs of residents of Manitoba. And (2) t o urge the provincial government to recognize the stresses placed upon the health- care system by the current and continuous aging population and consider increasing the availability of long-term spaces, PCH beds, in communities across the province. And this petition is signed by S. Cure, B. Bondzuk, S.L. Mancheese and many, many other fine Manitobans. Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: There are currently 125 licensed personal -care homes, PCHs, across Manitoba, consisting of less than 10,000 beds. All trends point to an incre asingly aging population who will require additional personal-care- home facilities. By some estimates, Manitoba will require an increase of more than 5,100 personal-care-home beds by 2036.

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 903 The number of Manitobans with Alzheimer 's disease or another dementia -related illness who will require personal -care-home services are steadily increasing and are threatening to double within the current generation. The last personal -care-home review in many areas, including the Swan River Valley area, currently under administration of Prairie Mountain regional health authority, was conducted in 2008.

Average occupancy rates for personal -care homes across the province are exceeding 97 per cent, with some regions, such as Swan River Valley, witnessing 100 per cent occupancy rates. These high occupancy rates are creating the conditions where many individuals requiring long-term care are being displaced far away from their families and their home community. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows:

(1) To urge t he provincial government to consider immediately enacting a province- wide review of the long- term-care needs of residents in Manitoba. * (13:50) And t o urge the provincial government to recognize the stresses placed upon the health- care system by the current and continuous aging population and consider increasing the availability of long-term-care spaces, PCH beds, in communities across the province. And this is signed by R. Van Kleek, S. Burgess, V. Bertram and many others, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Stuart Briese (Agassiz): I'd like to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: There are currently 125 licensed personal -care homes, PCHs, across Manitoba, consisting of less than 10,000 beds. All trends point to an increasingly aging population who will require additional personal-care- home facilities. By some estimates, Manitoba will require an increase of more than 5,100 personal-care-home beds by 2036.

The number of Manitobans with Alzheimer 's disease or another dementia -related illness who will require personal -care-home services are steadily increasing and are threatening to double within the current generation. The last personal -care-home review in many areas, including the Swan River Valley area currently under the administration of the Prairie Mountain regional health authority, was conducted in 2008. Average occupancy rates for personal -care homes across the province are exceeding 97 per cent, with some regions, such as Swan R iver Valley, witnessing 100 per cent occupancy rates.

These high occupancy rates are creating the conditions where many individuals requiring long- term care are being displaced far away from their families and home community. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to consider immediately enacting a pr ovince-wide review of long-term-care needs of residents of Manitoba.

And to urge the provincial government to recognize the stresses placed upon the health -care system by the current and continuous aging population and consider increasing the availability of long-term-care spaces, PCH beds, in communities across the province. This petition is signed by L. Shao, S. Symchych, D. Harvyl and many, many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and Advanced Learning): I'd like to table the Estimates books for the Department of Education and Advanced Learning. Mr. Speaker: Further tabling of reports? Hon.

Erna Braun (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Today I would like to table the 2014 Workers Compensation annual report, including 2014 Appeal Commission and Medical Review Panel annual report, 2014 Fair Practices Advocate annual rep ort, the Workers Compensation Board five-year plan for the years 2015-2019. Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports?

904 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 Seeing none, we'll move on to ministerial statements. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Before oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today from Collège Béliveau teacher Joël Tétrault, along with students Erik Houston, Connor Lavery, Danika Fran and Cody Acres, all of w hom are the guests of the honourable member for Radisson (Mr. Jha).

And also seated in the public gallery we have with us today from Border View school 10 grades 6 to 10 students under the direction of Walter Wiebe, and this group is located in the const ituency of the honourable member for Emerson (Mr. Graydon). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIONS EIA Housing Allowance Implementation Timeline Mr.

Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): All of us here care deeply about the plight of our more vulnerable citizens, and this is why we have advocated in the official opposition for three years now for an increase in the EIA rental allowance, advocated by Make Poverty History, an organization that has done excellent work in bringing together broad cross -sections of public opinion and through its efforts has, I think, made a tremendous contribution to Manitoba and particularly those more vulnerable in our society. So I wanted to offer our thank you to the government for acting, finally.

They have not acted but committing to act, I should explain, Mr. Speaker, committing to act on increasing the rental allowance. And I'd also like to specifically, because it takes all of us working together at times to achieve these things, I'd like to also offer a specific thank you to the member for Seine River (Ms. Oswald) for making this part of her leadership campaign effort and for bringing the issue forward. I'd like to ask the Premier if he would also like to commit to a specific date for the introduction of the increase in the housing allowance today. Hon.

Greg Selinger (Premier): I think I heard the member ask me when the Rent Assist program would start its increases. We've proposed July, Mr. Speaker, early part of July for the first tranche and a subsequent tranche later on in the fall, subsequent, of course, to the members opposite allowing the budget to pass. And we look forward to them co -operating on that, because we know that the Rent Assist program is an important part of our jobs strategy. It provides people with the support they need to get training and skills as well as move into employment opportunities.

We know it provides them support to have access to market housing in the private sector , Mr. Speaker, and we look forward to the members opposite passing the budget to support that initiative. Mr. Pallister: Well, to be fair, Mr. Speaker, there were three years there where the government didn't listen, didn't act and didn't include any increase in the EIA rental housing allowance in any of their budgets, and so, of course, we'd have mixed feelings about supporting any endeavour that the government would commit to when they failed to demonstrate any real compassion for the most vulnerable people in our society.

That being said, though, I would also like to add our thanks and congratulations to the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), who made this part of his platform as well. We appreciate that. Thank you. There are times when it takes advocacy from the opposition to assist, but it's –most certainly it does also take, many times, to get things done, support from within the government caucus, and I appreciate the support of the two members I referenced and other members in the caucus as well wh o also advocated for some time. I know the member for St. Norbert (Mr.

Gaudreau) has claimed that he advocated for this issue as well, though we've seen no evidence of that whatsoever. I'd ask the Premier also to acknowledge that this is, as documents hav e now been tabled, this was a position of our opposition party for some three years, and he still has failed to act on it and fails to commit to acting on it even today. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, we are very pleased to introduce the Rent Assist program. It's a very strong complement to the social housing units we've built in Manitoba and the affordable housing units in Manitoba.

It's particularly helpful to working families, families that continue to get training and skills and enter the labour market. And I have to say it contrasts very dramatically with what the Leader of the Opposition proposed. The Leader of the Opposition wanted to build a

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 905 wall–wanted to build a wall –around people with social assistance, because under his program that benefit would not be available to people that were entering the workforce, Mr. Speaker. The minute they left social assistance, under his proposal, and entered the workforce, they would be cut off benefits. Our program is dramatically different. It's available to ever ybody in the labour market. It's available to people moving off social assistance, and I encourage the members to take the enlightened approach and vote for it as quickly as possible in the budget.

NDP Political Staff Severance Packages Request for Identity of Legal Adviser Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the most unenlightened approach possible is the one the government has pursued by jacking up PST and fees, disproportionately hurting our low -income families and low-income people in our province. Now, in respect of this departure tax, the Premier is claiming that he did not decide to offer six-figure severance payments. He claims he's not responsible for paying these staffers to leave our province. His lawyer apparently made him do it, Mr.

Speaker, but who is this lawyer, and who is this lawyer who's so very generous with taxpayers' money? Since neither the Premier or the NDP are responsible for making these payments, perhaps they do not care, but Manitobans who wer e asked to pay $670,000 do care and they want some answers from this Premier. Since there are no answers forthcoming from this Premier, would he at least today tell us the name of this lawyer who has advised him to give away $670,000 to his former NDP fr iends? Who's the lawyer? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, the member opposite was part of a government that clawed back the Child Benefit from all the families on social assistance, and when we came into office we made that benefit available to every family in Manitoba regardless of their source of income, including people on social assistance. That benefit is worth over $50 million and the members opposite voted against it.

It's no wonder they want to avoid their reactionary policies on social a ssistance, because they do not make support available to working families. * (14:00) They do not make support available to families who want to get education and skills. They do not want to vote for our budget even though they know there will be more sup port for families to get the good jobs that are available in Manitoba under our infrastructure program, which they also do not support. They do not want 60,000 jobs to be created under our infrastructure program. They said they would roll that back. Let them explain that to Manitobans, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. NDP Leadership Candidates Guarantee to Support Staff Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): This year's budget contains $500 million just in broken -promise additional taxes levied on Manitobans. Each and every Manitoban is being asked to fund this government's pre-election bid with dollars taken from their kitchen table, and meanwhile the Premier's in hiding. Before Christmas, he was very concerned that his staff were supporting other NDP leadership candidates behind his back.

But how could he get them to come out and declare themselves? Well, the answer was to guarantee that they could work for any other campaign without fear of reprisal. And right after his wafer -thin victory, pow, housecleaning time. Now, how can you get away with firing people when you have guaranteed them that you wouldn't fire them just a few weeks before? Well, that's easy. For the Premier, it's easy, simple. Just offer them wads of cash and, poof, no more problem, no more staffers, no more $670,000 either, Mr. Speaker.

Will the Premier admit that these inflated severance payments were ridiculously high because of his ridiculous promise to the staffers? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member opposite said the following: I am not talking about individual staffers with you guys, and I never will. That was his comment to media. He doesn't want to talk about the staff that have left his employ, but he does want to talk about everybody else's staff. He wants to receive severance payments for himself and former members of the government that he served in, but he doesn't want to talk about it in their case.

He does want to talk about it in our case.

906 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 When we start actually having a serious debate about social assistance policy, about helping people getting jobs through Rent Assist, through helping people get skills and training, he diverts his attention because he doesn't like the contrast of our policies, which provide people opportunities for work, and his policies, which deny people support when they're seeking work. The contrast is very clear. His cancellation of the infrastructure program: 60,000 lost jobs.

H is approach to social assistance reform: less support for people when they want to enter the workforce. No wonder he wants divert attention. NDP Political Staff Responsibility for Severance Packages Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Tired out government and tired out talking points. It isn't relevant, of course, the points that the Premier is [inaudible] The reality is, we work with donated money in our party, Mr. Speaker. They work with subsidies and still run a deficit in their party. We're talking about taxpayers' money here today. We're talking about money taken from taxpayers.

And the Premier wants to cover up what he did with it. He says he's not really responsible. He says his lawyer said that he had to pay. He says his lawyer makes them go away, these staffers. He said his lawyer did it. We have to get the name of the lawyer to find out who's accountable here. It's time for the Premier to stop blaming the anonymous, nameless, faceless and, possibly, imaginary legal adviser. This Premier is running away from accountability, frightened by trans - parency and engaging in a cover -up, and if I'm wrong, he can prove me wrong right now. Will he stop passing the buck?

Will he take full responsibility, personally, for making the decis ion to pay the $670,000 in departure tax money? Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Again, Mr. Speaker, the member opposite received $77,700 in severance from the government of Canada. He received $22,000-plus in severance from the government of Manitoba. Former staffers in the government he represented when he was in this Legislature in his last incarnation received $1.2 million in severance.

But when it comes to talking about his individual staffers, he goes on the record and say, I'm not talking about individual staffers with you guys. It's a double standard. He wants to talk about everything about his own behaviour. He wants to talk about everything about his own failed policies for the future of Manitoba. He wants to cancel hyd ro build for export; there we go, another 10,000 jobs that disappear. He wants to cancel the infrastructure program; whoops, another six–59,000 jobs have disappeared.

He doesn't want to talk about his narrow policy on social assistance reform, where ours helps people get jobs and training. Whoops, he doesn't want to talk about that. Double standards, failed policies. We're building a better– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. City of Winnipeg Job Growth Rate Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, according to StatsCan, since 2009 when this Premier first became the leader of his party, Winnipeg's job growth is second last in Canada.

I'd like to ask the minister responsible for the City of Winnipeg, the member for Brandon East: Will he admit that under the leadership of his Premier, Winnipeg, once again, is dead last in our country? Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Municipal Government): Mr. Speaker, our government is privileged to work with the City of Winnipeg in its new administration under Mayor Bowm an. We're seeing Winnipeg undertake a new wave of enthusiasm. Our government's working very closely with Winnipeg to provide prosperity for the city, to grow the city.

We have collective aspirations to grow Winnipeg to a million people, and we're the government that's going to do it with the city of Winnipeg. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, almost dead last in Canada is hardly something to be proud of and it hardly shows leadership. Since this Premier first became leader of his party, not only is our city ninth out of 10 major cities in job growth, but Winnipeg's employment rate experienced the greatest decline in all major cities in Canada. Mr. Speaker, will the minister just admit that his risky pay -more-get-less policies are having a negative impact on our city?

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 907 Hon. Kevin Chief (Minister of Jobs and the Economy): Private sector forecasters, Mr. Speaker, continue to say the same thing. There's more people working in Manitoba, including Winnipeg, now than ever before. They're making more money now than ever before. In fact, you've got to listen to Rosemary Sparks, executive director of BuildForce Canada: There's never been a better time to get involved in the trades in Manitoba.

Or you can listen to Michael Legary and Dave Angus and they'll tell you, at one time, when members opposite were in government, you looked at Adelaide Street, people saw it as a place of hardship. Now it is called Innovation Alley, one of the most exciting places to be in our city. At any time members opposite want to come down to Innovation Alley and see why Winnipeg is seen as leaders when it comes to start -ups, I'd be willing to take them down for a coffee. Come down to see Startup Winnipeg and the amazing– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Mrs.

Stefanson: There seems to be a dispute over the facts, and I'll take Stats Canada facts over their facts any day. Mr. Speaker, since this Premier (Mr. Selinger) first became leader of his party in 2009, not only is Winnipeg second last in job growth and not only has Winnipeg experienced the greatest decline in employment rate, but Winnipeg also holds the title of second largest increase in the unemployment rate in Canada. Will the minister just admit that his Premier's leadership has resulted in a negative outcome for our city when it comes to job growth and the employment rate? Mr.

Chief: Seen as leaders in the cou ntry on jobs, seen as leaders in the country on wages, private forecasters saying we're going to have one of the strongest economies this year and in the years to come. You know, members' opposite message to young people has been clear: they should give up and move to Saskatchewan. Well, Mr. Speaker, here's what young people tell us: that they're proud of who they are, they're proud of where they come from, they're proud of their hometowns, they're proud of their home province, and they want to give back. Mr.

Speaker, this coming summer, because we increased minimum wage, we'll have more young people working this summer than ever before. We'll have more young people making more money than they have ever before and they'll work more wages – more weeks than they ever have. We continue to stand with young people. We continue to stand with businesses. Members opposite should know there's always a right time to do the right thing, and they should support this budget. Infrastructure Projects Legal Disputes Mr.

Reg Helwer (Brandon West): And those young Manitobans will be paying more taxes than ever before to this NDP government. * (14:10) Mr. Speaker, I was shocked, as were many Manitobans, when this minister indicated last week that it's not unusual to have legal disputes in large construction projects; maybe in this minister's world, maybe in the Manitoba NDP world, but not in the real world. In the real world, major projects are completed on time, on budget, with no lawsuits. Close by, the Chief Peguis Trail is a fine example. Mr.

Speaker, the Manitoba NDP has experienced lawsuits with the stadium, Primera construction, the Jockey Club, numerous flood- related lawsuits from the floods of 2011 and '14. Is this the norm in the minister's world, another indication that Manitobans are paying more and getting less? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation ): Well, Mr. Speaker, let's be clear. I –this is a rhetorical question. I don't e xpect members opposite to answer this, but what major construction project did they actually build when they were in government? This is a trick question, because even they have no answer.

There was none. And, indeed, we've seen historic investment in our highways. We've seen an historic investment in terms of flood protection, more than a billion dollars. But I thought the ultimate last week was when the member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson) accused us of being the get -'er-done party. Mr. Speaker, we are the get-'er-done party.

908 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 Mr. Helwer: Well, there's another lawsuit in action. A trademark will be–have to pay on that one. The minister and his government seem to be a magnet for lawsuits. Such waste threatens essential front-line services as the NDP was tes money and resources defending the NDP's action or inaction on files. The minister has admitted he expects to be sued. Mr. Speaker, that is not normal. Is that why the NDP paid $670,000 in hush money to its former staffers, so that they would not sue? Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr. Speaker, I want to stress one thing.

I did reference the fact that in some cases we have engaged in legal action. The south Perimeter bridge is a good example of that. When we don't get what we expect in the way of quality of work, if it's not done on time when there are schedules, we will take legal action. So it is fairly standard. But one of the other key things you need, Mr. Speaker–again, members opposite, perhaps, wouldn't know about this –you also need the resources to do it.

And I know, by the way, that they know nothing about this, because whenever we brought in a budget, as this past budget did, that's put in place the resources that we need to build those projects, guess what they do? They vote against it. Mr. Helwer: Mr. Speaker, at this point it must be a relief for this minister when a day goes by without a new lawsuit. In contrast, his predecessor, the current Minister of Agriculture, was not sued –was–while he was the minister responsible for MIT. Mr. Speaker, obviously, Manitobans are tired of the same old NDP broken promises and want a change for the better.

Can this minister inform the House: What will be the next lawsuit involving this tired NDP government? Mr. Ashton : Well, Mr. Speaker, I can also inform the m ember again, and I realize that the member opposite doesn't have much experience with this, but I'll tell you what makes a great day for those of us on this side of the House: seeing things like Highway 1. And perhaps the member opposite may have noticed the new sign on the side of the road; it's got one, one, zero on it. It was this government that upgraded the highway, four-laned to the border, and he can even get home to Brandon a little bit faster.

Unfortunately, once again, he never voted for any of that. Lake Manitoba-Lake St. Martin Operation of Emergency Channel Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): Mr. Speaker, this past weekend saw widespread flooding of farmland, First Nations and other properties around Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin. Mr. Speaker, who are the NDP blaming for their mismanagement this time? Is it the fault of the feds, the flood victims themselves or Mother Nature? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Mr.

Speaker, I want to be very clear, and I'm surprised the member opposite would've referenced there First Nations or the federal government. We've worked co- operatively with the federal government on the flood file. Well, Mr. Speaker, it may come as a bit of a surprise to members opposite, but when it came to, for example, building the emergency outlet, we had full co-operation from the federal government. We're still waiting for the cheque in the mail for the cost of it, but I want to stress that we did work very co- operatively.

And I want to put on the record, too, that it's this government that not only built the emergency outlet but put significant resources into protecting people in and around the lake. We're engaged now in an additional outlet from Lake Manitoba and a permanent outlet from Lake St. Martin. Again, I mentioned this earlier, we are the get-'er-done government, Mr. Speaker. When it comes to flood protection, we're the get -'er-done government. Mr. Briese: They supposedly built it, but then they never use it. Lake Manitoba and Lake St.

Martin are both still well above recommended operating levels and have been for four years, since 2011. When will this NDP government stop making useless promises and actually take some action that will result in Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin returning to normal operating ranges? Mr. Ashton : Mr. Speaker, I'm not quite sure what the member's referring to, because it's certainly not a useless promise to commit like we did in the first decade of our government where we invested $1 billion in flood protection to make the top priority Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin.

We've already built the emergency outlet from Lake St. Martin and, by the way, it has been

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 909 operating. We are also now working on the final designs in terms of the out let from Lake Manitoba and the permanent outlet from Lake St. Martin. We're working as well, Mr. Speaker, in terms of the Assiniboine valley. We're working in terms of southwest Manitoba. We're working around this province because we are the get-'er-done government when it comes to flood mitigation. Mr. Briese: Well, an awful lot of noise and no action. The NDP promised that the emergency channel would alleviate the high -water problems of Lake St. Martin, didn't happen.

The NDP promised unrestricted flows at Fairford, didn't happen. The NDP promised full compensation for victims of artificial flooding, didn't happen. The NDP promised additional outflow for Lake Manitoba, hasn't happened, and maybe never will. Mr. Speaker, it's been four years now. My question is simple: When will the empty NDP promises end and when will some meaningful action to lower the high lake levels actually begin? Mr. Ashton : Well, Mr. Speaker, I noticed the member said cryptically something about the Lake Manitoba outlet might actually not happen.

The only way it won't happen is if members opposite were to form government and put in place the cuts in the kind of funding that will be necessary for that kind of investment. We've invested $1 billion in our first decade. It's going to take in the range of $1 billion, Mr. Speaker, with some of the investments we've already put in place. And in terms of delivering: emergency outlet, done; flood protection in and around Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin, done; nine stand- alone provincial programs, more than $1.2 billion in 2011 and significant investments and payouts since then.

In fact, we got further announcements coming up, because when it comes to floods and flood mitigation, much accomplished, but there's a lot more to do. Headingley Correctional Facility Overcrowding and Safety Levels Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, nine years ago the Headingley Correctional Centre was over capacity by 172 inmates. The NDP minister of Justice at the time, the same NDP Minister of Justice today, said that it was unacceptable and he would do whatever he could to get it corrected.

According to new information from freedom of information, Headingley was 285 inmates over capacity last month. Mr. Speaker, why did this Minister of Justice not tell the truth to the hard -working men and women at that facility who are concerned about their safety? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, it's really rich to hear Conservatives lecture anyone in this House about correctional capacity and safety within corrections; the worst jail riot in this province's history and one of the worst in Canadian history happened under their watch.

Ever since, we have been working diligently to ensure that our correctional capacity challenges are being addressed and, indeed, that includes ushering in new approaches and making sure that sometimes it's the problems behind the crime that have to be dealt with. And it's important sometimes that we have to look to see how we can ensure that we don't just put people who are ill into our correctional system over and over again, and that's why we have a mental health court, for one example. Mr.

Speaker: Prior to recognizing the honourable member for Steinbach, I want to caution him to pick and choose his words very carefully, please, when he poses his questions to make sure that we use the appropriate and parliamentary language. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, nine years ago the minister said that it was unacceptable how many people were i n our correctional system and he was going to fix it. Last month there were 834 inmates at Headingley. That's the highest total in at least the last two years. Overcrowding has an impact, Mr.

Speaker, on those who are housed in the facility, but also those who work in the facility. They've indicated that they're concerned about their safety. They're indicated their concern about the morale of those who are in the facility. * (14:20) How many incidents, Mr. Speaker, in Headingley have there been of contr aband, of weapons, of drugs that have been found in Headingley in the last two years as a result of overcrowding?

910 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, I know the member– I don't know how he has time to put together questions, because he's been writing FIPPAs one after the other. In fact, I–since coming back into the– into this department, I've discovered the research arm for the member for Steinbach is the Department of Justice. If I was still Conservation minister, I'd charge him with overfishing. But the informat ion is at hand, and we'll pursue those questions and answers in–at Estimates. But, Mr.

Speaker, the incarceration rate is showing some improvement and some of the institutions are under capacity, but we have to get to the root. And I know Conservatives, they always talk about the answer to crime being at the courthouse or being at the jail. Those on this side know, yes, more prosecutors– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time for this question has elapsed. Mr. Goertzen: Members of the government caucus are not embarrassed for that member, but I am embarrassed for him from that answer. In the last two years, there've been 161 incidents of contraband in Headingley.

There've been 186 in the Remand Centre. There's been 187 in the Brandon Correctional Centre. That includes drugs, Mr. Speaker, that includes weapons designed to kill or injure, that includes explosives or bombs. It's been nine years since this Minister of Justice said that overcrowding was causing a concern for safety of those in the institutions. Will he not admit that his failure to deal with the problem in the last nine years have put those who are in the institutions at even greater risk today than they were even nine years ago? Mr.

Mackintosh : If the member had read th e FIPPAs that our department researched for him and provided to him, he'd realize that the contraband incidents are actually down, Mr. Speaker. He neglected to put that into his question. I also question any member in the House that gets up and thinks they have an answer on a– on the issue of crime, the challenging issue of crime, when it was this member, Mr. Speaker, who spoke so vociferously and fought tooth and nail against the Auto Theft Suppression Strategy that has reduced auto theft by 80 per cent. He said it wouldn't work, that it was a blame-the-victim strategy.

He should get up and apologize right now. Emergency Medical Services Reports Implementation of Recommendations Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, in 2007, the Paramedic Associa tion of Manitoba released their Quiet Crisis report on the situation of emergency medical services in Manitoba. Six years later, a report in 2013 on the emergency medical services in Manitoba decide to sit –described a situation that was continuing to be s o bad that a 'batient'–a basic patient -care record program was removed and never replaced.

Still today, only Winnipeg has the EPCR, and after two years after that report we hear that only one of 54 recommendations has actually been implemented. What has today's NDP government been doing instead of attending to the urgent needs to improve our emergency medical services in Manitoba? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the question. For the record, in 1999, there were 280 paramedics in Manitoba. How many are there today? One thousand five hundred, a dramatic increase. In 1999, in terms of advanced- care paramedics, there were but seven. Today, we have 180, Mr. Speaker, 180.

In 1999, 80 per cent of the paramedic workforce were casual or volunteers, some excellent people working very hard to do the job. Today, 70 per cent of the paramedic workforce is full -time employees. Those are very significant increases in resources. And I can say this: The emergency dispatch centre in Brandon ha s been completely rebuilt and outfitted with modern technology. The fleet of ambulances throughout the province, Mr. Speaker, has been modernized and updated and outfitted with GPS technology. We have made very significant investments in paramedic services in Manitoba. The numbers speak for themselves.

Paramedic Services Critical Incident Reporting Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): But is it working, Mr. Speaker? The 2013 report was very critical of the variation in services and the lack of provincial o versight. The large salary differential between rural and Winnipeg paramedics is creating major inequities and problems. On page 14 of the report, it is blunt and it says there is no accountability.

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 911 Can the Premier explain to the Legislature why in 16 ye ars of today's NDP government there is still no standardized approach to the reporting of critical incidents and near misses in the work of paramedics throughout the province? This is vital so that problems can be identified and improvements made. Why is it not standardized? Why is it not easy to do all over the province? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): As I said earlier, Mr. Speaker, there's –we've gone from 280 paramedics in Manitoba to 1,500, from 80 per cent casual and volunteers to 70 per cent full time.

A new fleet, new dispatch mechanisms and critical incident reporting never existed under the members of the opposite –of the opposition. They didn't have a critical reporting incident system in Manitoba. We have that system now. That system provides information on how to improve health -care services. It is a very important part of the process and we always look for ways to continue to improve that system so we can offer better quality services to people everywhere in Manitoba. Mental Health Supports Mr. Gerrard: But, Mr. Speaker, for paramedics the system is not working properly.

In–the 2013 EMS report conveyed concerns about long shifts and the risk of individuals being overly tired. In fact, the problems with the whole system are so severe and so fa r-ranging that the mental health status of paramedics and the lack of available psychological support has become a major concern. Yet little action has been taken to ensure the health and safety of our overworked paramedics is paramount.

Why has the Premier and today's NDP government done so little to address the major problems that were unearthed at the time of the EMS review and before that in the Quiet Crisis report of almost 10 years ago? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, 80 per cent of the workforce is full -time now. In 2012, in response to concerns about paramedic fatigue, everybody was brought together around the table, and that included the paramedics themselves, their unions and regional health authorities, and they agreed to work together on how to 'implove' that situation.

I note for the record, we are bringing in legislation announced in the Throne Speech for post - traumatic stress disorder Manitoba, Mr. Speaker, to cover front-line workers. But we believe, most importantly, in prevention, Mr. Speaker. We believe in prevention. We believe that we can do things in partnership with the people on the front lines to reduce fatigue, to increase their capacity to provide good services, and we make that commitment and we'll continue to work with them to do those things that will improve the quality of their work and their ability to respond effectively to the public.

École Noёl-Ritchot New Renovation Project Mr. Dave Gaudreau (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, unlike when the opposition had their time in power and education was facing rollbacks and zeros, and 700 teachers lost their jobs, our government is investing in schools and communities. In St. Norbert, schools are the heart of the community and the key to creating a bright future for our children. Today we were joined by parents, teachers and the principal of the school, the minister and the Premier for a wonderful announcement at École Noël-Ritchot.

I'm wondering if the minister can inform the House of what that announcement was. Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and Advanced Learning): I was joined by the Premier and my friend from St. Norbert, as well as the school principal, officials from DSFM, teachers, parents and, of course, an enthusiastic group of students who were very pleased to hear about our announcement, announcing a major new renovation for École Noël - Ritchot school. Now, Mr.

Speaker, let me tell you what this expansion includes: two new kindergarten classrooms, five new grade-school classrooms, a new gymnasium, a new music room, new washrooms, a changing room with barrier -free access and a child-care centre that has 74 spaces for infants and preschool-aged children. Mr. Speaker, on this side of the House, we continue to invest in education to ensure our young people have opportunities in the future. On the opposite side of the House, they want to cut a half a billion dollars– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed.

912 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 Minnesota Transmission Line Release of Information Request Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : I have petitioned the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro to provide an explanation regarding what criteria were used and the reasons for selecting the preferred routing for this Minnesota-Manitoba transmission line. When will the minister release this information? * (14:30) Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): I rose in the House yesterday to address this very issue, Mr. Speaker.

This was done over a long period of time and– [interjection] I will try again. The project is strongly supported by Minnesota Power, who's also done a great job in shepherding it through their own Assembly or their own Senate in the State of Minnesota. And on May 14th, just a little while ago, the project cleared a major hurdle by receiving a certificate of need by Minnesota Public Utilities Commission people. Now, I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that this was something that was recommended by the Public Utilities Board and NFAT here in the– Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Costs to Manitobans Mr. Smook: This NDP government interfered with Bipole III, and we know that cost Manitobans billions more. Is the same interference af fecting the Minnesota-Manitoba transmission line? Manitobans are tired of paying more and getting less. How much more are Manitobas –Manitobans paying for this government's mismanagement of Manitoba Hydro? Mr. Robinson: As I was saying, Mr.

Speaker, on the 14th of 2014, the White House issued a press release in which President Obama called the project a leading example of building 21st -century infrastructure. Now, what the member has asked me as well involves another aspect of hydro initiatives, and adding to it is the Bipole III. And I don't believe I have enough time to go through the many efforts that Manitoba Hydro has done in involving the community and advising the community and landowners, First Nations and other people that are interested in this project. Let me start, Mr. Speaker– Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

The honourable minister's time on this question has elapsed. Mr. Smook: I have constituents from La Verendrye and Dawson Trail contact me with concerns an d complaints about the intrusiveness of the preferred route. This Hydro Minister and this –his NDP government are not listening to Manitobans. What is this minister hiding? Mr. Robinson: Well, I'm not hiding anything, Mr. Speaker. Let me advise the ot her side that in 2013, Manitoba Hydro, in fact, launched a series of open houses and workshops to engage the public on a proposed Manitoba -Minnesota transmission project.

Beginning in January 2015, a preferred route has been presented to the public, and this is what is being discussed at the current time. Now, until the environmental impact statement is filed with Hydro, it'll continue to accept comments and questions and address concerns from the public and stakeholders, and that's what the member ought to be telling his constituents. Wellman Lake Campground Staff Office Hours–Victoria Day Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): Wellman Lake Campground, located in Duck Mountain Provincial Park, is an absolute jewel.

As the minister can see on the attached campground maps I'm tabling, the campground office is located at the entrance. Can the minister advise why he was unable to staff the campground office during this past long weekend? Hon. Thomas Nevakshonoff (Minister of Conservation and Water Stewardship): I thank the member for the question, gives me the opportunity to put on the record the investments and the commitment that this side of the House has to campgrounds, to parks and so forth, unlike members opposite, in their time in office, put virtually no money into the system whatsoever.

I think the public of Manitoba knows which party best serves the people in terms of preservation of entities such as this. Thank you.

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 913 Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker: It's now time for members' statements. Komagata Maru Mr. Ron Schuler ( St. Paul ): Mr. Speaker, on May the 23th, 1914, the SS Komagata Maru arrived at the Vancouver harbour. The ship was carrying 376 immigrants from India, mostly Sikh veterans of the British Army. Aside from the 22 who were deemed returning Canadian citizens, tragically, the other 354 would not get to set foot in Canada.

I rise today to commemorate the 101st anniversary of this low point in Canadian human rights history. For two months, the ship re mained docked at the Vancouver harbour. This was due to the continuous journey regulation which was passed by an order-in-council by the Liberal government of Sir Wilfrid Laurier in 1908. These regulations stated that any ship arriving in Canada would have to make a continuous journey from where it started. As there was no direct route from India to Canada, the policy was a way to exclude immigrants from India arriving to Canada.

For those two months, the passengers were denied food and water. They surv ived with the help of Asian immigrants who had arrived previous to the continuous journey regulations, who took it upon themselves to smuggle supplies to the passengers still on the Komagata Maru. On July the 23rd, the Liberal Laurier govern - ment sent two naval ships to escort the Komagata Maru out of Canadian territory. On the return journey, the ship sailed to India to drop off passengers. A British gunboat intercepted the ship and went to arrest more than 20 of the men that they thought were the leaders.

These individuals resisted arrest, and 20 passengers were killed from gunfire. Mr. Speaker, it is important to remember this tragedy, but it is also important to reflect how far we have come since then. Across Canada and Manitoba, we have a thriving population of citizens of Indian heritage. They are our neighbours, friends and fellow community builders. Their contributions have helped make this province and country a great place to live. Today we commemorate this unfortunate and tragic event. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Collège Béliveau–Europe Trip Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson): Mr.

Speaker, earlier this spring, history teacher Mr. Tétrault and 60 students from Collège Béliveau had a trip of a lifetime. They travelled to Europe along with other teachers an d parents. Some of them are up in the gallery today. The trip focused on making the 70th anniversary of Victory in Europe and the end of the Second World War. They visited London, the Netherlands and France. The students had the opportunity to tour Wins ton Churchill's bunker, the British Code and Cypher School at Bletchley Park, Anne Frank's home in Amsterdam and the battlefields of Vimy Ridge and Juno Beach.

The students also visited the Groesbeek Canadian War Cemetery. Before they left, each student researched a Canadian solider who rests there. They also visited the cemetery, and the students were able to visit the grave of the soldiers they had researched. This trip was a unique opportunity for students to learn and understand more about the Second World War and how about Canadian soldiers would have experienced. I'm sure that spending 10 days in Europe was a highlight of these young students.

It's not every day that you can climb the Eiffel Tower, visit the Versailles palace and stop by Buckingh am Palace with friends and classmates. It is without a doubt that the students will carry both the lessons of the World War II and many memories of travelling with them for the rest of their lives. Thank you, Collège Béliveau and teachers like Mr. Té trault, who go to the extra mile to organize trips like this one for Manitoba students. Thank you very, very much. Cattle Industry in Manitoba Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mr.

Speaker, 12 years ago today, May 20th, 2003, was the day bovine spongiform encephalopathy or BSE, or, as the media coined it, mad cow disease, was confirmed in one cow in northern Alberta. This landmark day changed the entire cattle industry across our country and it is a day I will never forget. In 2003, our farm was heavily into the cattle industry and the uncertainty emanating from this will always remain with me and with people involved in the cattle industry.

914 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 A lot has happened to the cattle industry in the ensuing 12 years. The industry has severely contracted, but for those w ho remain, the cattle industry has finally rebounded with higher prices being paid for their product. Yesterday, in a related item which has further restrained our cattle industry here in Canada, the World Trade Organization has delivered its final verdict in favour of Canada and Mexico against the US trade barrier country of origin labelling, or COOL, as it is known.

This ruling now allows Canada and Mexico to impose tariffs against the US should the US continue to refuse to amend their anti-free trade legislation. * (14:40) Our thanks go to federal Ag Minister Gerry Ritz and the Canadian Cattlemen's Association for their tireless efforts on this file. Mr. Speaker, the cattle industry remains a vital component of the agricultural sector in Manitoba. Manitoba's cattlemen and cattlewomen deserve our respect, as they have taken on the adversities of BSE, COOL, low prices and flooded lands.

Manitoba's cattle industry will continue to rebuild, aided by stronger prices and free open trade with other provinces, the US and around the world. On behalf of the members of this Legislature and all Manitobans, our thank you to the cattle industry for their positive contribution to Manitoba's economy and ecosystem in providing a safe, wholesome food product for all of us to enjoy. Fire up the barbecue. West Alexander Residents Association Hon. Flor Marcelino (Minister of Multi - culturalism and Literacy): Mr.

Speaker, the boulevards and parks in the West Alexander neighbourhood are much cleaner lately thanks to the great work of the West Alexander Residents Association or WARA. Earlier in May they held their 10th annual neighbourhood cleanup. Many local residents came out, as well as volunteers from Canada Helps, to clean up garbage throughout the neighbourhood. By noontime, we had filled every last one of our collection bins. To celebrate the job well done, we gathered for a barbecue afterwards at the Burton Cummings Community Centre, followed by the annual general meeting of WARA.

It was a great opportunity for people from our community to mingle and get to know each other. The West Alexander Residents Association strives to build a sense of community by bringing residents together. Thanks to the work of Kathy Collins, Harold Martinos and many more hard-working vol unteers, the West Alexander Residents Association has been making a big difference in our area. Many of the volunteers at the residents' association also donate their time to the Central Neighbourhood Development Corporation, or CNDC. CNDC serves the cent ral neighbourhoods of West Alexander, Centennial and Central Park.

Their community development work focuses on organizing and running programs like Feet on the Street where volunteers walk with young students to and from school. Ever since the CNDC was founded roughly 10 years ago, WARA has been a key supporter of the CNDC's work to help build stronger and safer neighbourhoods in central Winnipeg. Thanks to the work of organizations like WARA, West Alexander continues to be a wonderful and thriving neighbourhood that many call home. A huge thank you to everyone from the West Alexander Residents Association. Bill Gendron–Male Coach of the Year Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise today in appreciation of the outstanding contributions that Manitoba's coaches have made to athletes and sports in our province over many years. Last month, Bill Gendron, the head coach for the River Heights Speed Skating Club was recognized for his vast contributions and many achievements at Sport Manitoba's Night of Champions. Bill was named the male coach of the year on April 25th at the annual Coaching Manitoba IMPACT Awards. This is a well -deserved recognition for somebody who has served the athletic community as a coach for 11 years.

For over a decade, Bill has been a mentor and a guide for many young athletes. In fact, many young speed skaters from the River Heights club, under Bill's coaching, have been selected for the Manitoba provincial speed skating team and have competed in the Canada Winter Games. The River Heights club has placed more skaters on the provincial team than any other club in Manitoba. There's no doubt Bill's role as an exemplary coach played a key part for Manitoba athletes like Stefan Waples, Elise MacDonald, Andrew Lawler, Kyle Gendron and

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 915 Heather McLean who now skate on our national team. Bill feels that it's very important for all young athletes to play a wide range of sports to develop balance, co -ordination and agility. As an example, Bill has also coached baseball, softball, hockey and cycling. Bill is known for his understanding of the commitments many athletes have outside of sports and has always been accepting that school and family need to come before practice. Bill is known to go above and beyond the call of duty.

In one instance, a family drove from Dryden to find out what to expect if their child joined the Oval Program in Calgary. They were greeted at the oval by Bill with several pairs of skates, and he gave the family a personal hour lesson as well as answered all their questions about the sport. I'm honoured to stand in the Legislature today to thank Bill for his tireless efforts and expertise in instilling a love of sport in our young Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr. Speaker: Seeing no grievances, we'll move on to orders of the day, government business. Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if we might resolve the House into Committee of Supply, the same places, the Chamber, room 254 and room 255. Mr. Speaker: We'll now resolve into the Committee of Supply. Madam–Mr. Deputy Speaker, will you please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) FAMILY SERVICES * (14:50) The Acting Chairperson (Dave Gaudreau): This is the Department of Family Services. As previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My first question deals with the Leadership Council, and I wonder if the minister can tell us when the last meeting was. Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): You have to give me a moment. I can just–I'll just use this handy equipment I have here. I can tell the member that we have met four times in 2014- 2015: May 12th, 2014; November 5th, 2014; December 15th, 2014; April 23rd, 2015.

I just want for him to know that I meet on a number of occasions with the grand chiefs and the president and the CEOs, not necessarily always in the formal Leadership Council, but there is a very open -door policy that we have, where we're constantly working together to resolve the issues facing the child -welfare system and to work together. Mr. Gerrard: Now, I'm going to ask you a question about the role of the Leadership Council as you as the minister see it. I know what's specified in legislation, but the legislation gives some flexibility or

interpretation, and so I'd like to–if you, as minister, if you would talk about what you see as the role of the Leaders hip Council in Child and Family Services. Ms. Irvin -Ross: So, since the establishment of the Leadership Council, there has been an ongoing debate, which I am sure the member is very familiar with, about what the role of the Leadership Council is. And it go es long back, many ministers, where the conversation was happening.

Right now, the legislation states and refers to it– I'm not sure about the exact wording in the legislation, but that it is an advisory committee, that it is a committee that comes together to talk and reflect about what's happening in the child-welfare system. I think it is essential when we are talking about Leadership Council and elected officials that we are not involved in the daily operations, that, really, it is about policy development.

But I also have encouraged my partners at the Leadership Council table to consider looking at it even broader than that about what are the root causes, what are the issues that are facing families, and why are we seeing the numbers increasing, and why do we have the children in care we do, and what are those solutions to address that. So we talk on a lot of different topics at our meetings. Often, it's about roles and responsibilities, and we continue to work on a definition of what that will look like. We have very meaningful meetings

916 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 around the issue of housing and poverty and at our last meeting had a conversation about how do we move forward and look at putting–implementing traditional ways into the legislation, into policies. A good example of that would be around customary adoptions and having those conversations. So I think as time goes that we evolve, and we are working in a respectful environment. Do we always agree? No. And I think if I suggested that we did, you would call me on that. But we do have conversations that are open and frank and respectful.

What we work on every meeting is ensuring that the children are at the centre of our conversation because, really, that's what our responsibility is. I'm not naive in realizing the pressures t hat the indigenous leaders feel and the responsibility that they feel as they get the phone calls from the families in the middle of the night and on the weekends. And, because of that, that helps them to inform our table and to move it forward. Our goals at that table, as I've said, are around policy development, supporting the workforce.

There is an interest and acknowledgement of what's happening in–for our workforce and what they need. But most importantly, it's how do we better support families across this province so they can care for their children in the way they'd like to. Mr. Gerrard: So, in brief, you see the Leadership Council as an advisory body, not a decision- making body? Ms. Irvin -Ross: That is the debate that happens at that table. When y ou read the legislation, the legislation refers to it as a advisory, that there is an interest.

And I think you've had the conversations with the Leadership Council members that there is an interest and that it'd be a decision -making body as the legislatio n is written, as representatives from AMC sat at the table and MMF sat at the table, and MKO, as they developed the legislation with Tim Sale, that is what they agreed to. So we are prepared to have conversations. There has been multiple conversations about roles and responsibilities.

We've developed some new processes that we will have conversations about specific policies and programs or if letting Leadership Council members know if there's going to be an announcement. There was –prior to our public release of the AMR report, we had a briefing with the Leadership Council and made sure that they were comfortable with the direction we were going.

So there are–we're –as I'm saying, we're evolving, and I think that I'm very optimistic about what we're going to be able to accomplish together because we've been able to set aside some of the politics and –that weigh on all of us and put the children in the centre of that table and make some good decisions about how we move forward. Mr. Gerrard: Over the last few years, the government, first with the Southern Authority, when the government took over the management of the Southern Authority and then more recently the government took over the management of the Northern Authority.

Was the Leadership Council convened t o discuss the takeover of Northern Authority before it occurred? Ms. Irvin -Ross: When those decisions are made, those decisions are made after much deliberation. And, as I've said before, the Leadership Council is not a decision- making body. It is not a –the role of the Leadership Council is not the daily operations of the agencies and the authorities, it's the broader policy development that we need to work on. So, no, the Leadership Council was not called upon to be part of that decision. That decision wa s based on a critical incident that occurred.

It required swift action, and the legislation permits the minister of the day to place a agency under administration. It is the last thing that anyone wants to do. Whether you're in the department, in the agenc y or in the authority, we want them to be independent; we want them to do the good work that they do. We've had a number of conversations with the Northern Authority prior to taking that action. Grand Chief –[interjection]–Harper–sorry, David – Grand Chief Harper was very aware of the issues that was facing the Northern Authority.

We had very frank conversations; you know, it was not a proud day, but it was a necessity that we had to do. I'm confident that we'll be able to resolve the issues and to work with them to get them back independent again. We have some work to do, but I feel that there is some co -operation that is happening. And you're correct when you asked me that question, it was posed to me at the Leadership Council what their role could've, should've been.

And at that time I expressed my desire that it–we needed to make those decisions, and it was a decision that legislatively we're permitted to make and that we can certainly have conversations going into the future about what

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 917 is the role and re sponsibility of the Leadership Council. I was just going to put on the record what the – how the role of the CFS Leadership Council is defined in the legislation in

section 29(2). It says: "The role of the Council is to provide a forum to discuss issues rel ated to child and family services." That's what it says. We've been fulfilling that commitment, but we've also been entertaining with the membership of the Leadership Council how else we can evolve that so that they feel that their voice is being heard and they're able to see the changes that they desire. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, perhaps the –you could talk in more detail about the reasons for taking over the management of the Northern Authority. * (15:00) Ms.

Irvin -Ross: So as I said to the member, that the action of taking the Northern Authority under administration was not taken lightly, that we had worked with them for a number of years around issues, around compliance, with CFIS, with compliance with other standards, and what had happened is that there is a responsibility that the authorities do comply with the CFS Act. We received a memo from the CEO of the Northern Authority, Mr. Ron Monias, and he had asked for us to provide him with support with the authority and to help him come into compliance with the CFS act.

And when we reviewed the concerns that were listed, we felt that it was our responsibility to act immediately and we did place the Northern Authority under administration. Mr. Izzy Frost was appointed as the administrator and is working ver y well with the CEO as well as with working about how do we move forward and working with the agency as well to ensure that children in the North or with–involved with agencies are still receiving good quality service, that we're working on remedying some of the issues that were addressed or identified, and I'm confident that we will be able to resolve this. Mr.

Gerrard: So in essence, the concerns were around compliance with CFIS. What's the minister's goal and objective, right, in terms of the outcome of the takeover? Ms. Irvin -Ross: I'm disappointed that I hear the member opposite using the word takeover. That's not at all what it was. Maybe that's what it felt like to some of the board members at the time, and so I will accept that.

But the goal is to have a functioning authority that is supporting the agencies, that is complying to the standards set out with–through Child and Family Services, through the act, and that they're able to provide a good quality service for the children and the families that they represent. I do not want the record to suggest that it was only compliance of CFIS, that there were a number of other issues that had developed.

Prior to taking Northern Authority under administration we had a working table, and I can't –the collaborative working group that met infrequently, but the purpose of that was to address the issues that had been identified. So I want you to understand that many actions were taken before the step to take the authority under administration. We had tried to work with the board, with the CEO, and it really, as I said, it was a very disappointing day when we had to sign that letter and to inform the board chair that the Northern Authority was taken under administration.

I believe and I support that when the adm inistration is lifted and the board resumes responsibility, that it will be a stronger authority that will be able to support the families that it represents and the agencies in which support those families. I do not want it to be long term. I can't tell you today, if that's your next question about what the timeline is. I think it's really moving towards a way of addressing the issues that have been identified. I know that Mr. Frost is working very diligently with the CEO to identify solutions, and I'm c onfident that they will happen in the very near future. Mr.

Gerrard: You mentioned working with the board. Perhaps you could describe a little bit more detail what efforts were made to work with the board to sort the problems out. Ms. Irvin -Ross: Since 2011, the department has been providing support to the Northern Authority in different capacities and trying to help them meet the needs of the families that they represent. In 2012, it was the member from Fort Rouge who established the collaborat ive working group and that included the –some board members as well. And it was specifically around, how do we move forward? How do we support the Northern Authority?

And I think that we've been able to. Unfortunately, those –the collaborative working group and the other initiatives that we had, we did not get the outcomes that we had anticipated getting and weren't able to have the outcomes. We continue to work with them though but, unfortunately, after

918 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 we were approached by the CEO with requesting additional support, the action was required. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, the –one of the concerns that I have in discussions with people who are involved in the delivery of services for children in the North through CFS, is that the –some of the problems stem from the prov incial government trying to overly micromanage circumstances, and setting rules which make it more difficult for them to work with families and support families.

And so, you know, I'm concerned that the direction that the minister may be going is not neces sarily going to be one which is going to be better support for families and one which could even, you know, continue the trend of more children being apprehended. So, I –you know, I just express this as a concern that I have heard and a feeling that the mic romanaging in a number of ways by the provincial government is not being as helpful as it should be. Ms. Irvin -Ross: The Northern Authority has the same legislation, the same standards and the same responsibility as the other three authorities.

There is no difference in how they are treated and what we work. We've had a co -operative, collaborative working relationship with them. I do not accept the reference that it's micromanaging at all. It's about working with them so they can better support their families. * (15:10) I will agree with you that providing service in the North presents much different challenges than it does in the south. That I will agree. But we have made some attempts to address those issues.

We have great workers that are out in the N orth that are providing good quality service to families and really being practitioners, very eclectic practitioners, taking on many different roles in a family. And we need to acknowledge that. You yourself often talk about the Nelson House work that Fe lix Walker has done. Well, that is making a difference in his First Nations community. And we celebrate the work that he's done and how they've been able to change the tide in Nelson House and have more children living in their homes. And I hope that we're able to do that in many more communities.

And I'm confident that by strength - ening and supporting the Northern Authority so it can provide the direct support to the agencies, so the agencies can work with the families, we'll see positive outcomes. Mr. Gerrard: I mean, indeed, it is the fact that there are some successes, and we –I've talked about what's happening in Nelson House, Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation, and I'm glad that you're also acknowledging the major progress that's been made there.

It is conce rns coming from other communities, and it is a feeling that the conditions in the North, that the cultural background and the –what is available to people in the North in the CFS system is, you know, has not been providing precisely the same without any fle xibility in terms of some of the standards, for instance, of housing, may be, you know, a little harder, right, to achieve.

And, when we're looking at, you know, the resources to make sure that there are beds and adequate housing and so on for every child in the community, that there are certainly some struggles and that, sometimes, that struggle can be better met by addressing the housing than in taking the child away.

And one of the things that Felix Walker has done which has been so successful –in fact, it really was the chief and council, when Jerry Primrose was chief, who got this started, and that was bringing together the –a number of programs, not just child and family services but public health, the counselling services, the child-care services, the FASD program, so that the whole wellness centre could provide much better supports and so we're not needing to apprehend as many kids or put as many kids in care.

And so I would ask what progress has been making–made in other communities to help them move in the direction that has been successful in Nelson House at the Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation 'fild' and–family and child wellness centre. Ms. Irvin -Ross: So it is a multi -faceted question which you ask. I think what –I want to go back that your acknowledgement that it is much broader, the child-welfare issue is much broader than CFS, that it includes health, education, it includes good- quality housing. So I want to talk about what we've done across the province around poverty reduction.

I think that that is an example of what we've accomplished. I think in the North you can look at UCN. You can look at the hydro development, the jobs that are being created. You can look at the apprenticeship initiatives that are happening. You can look at the mining academy that's happening in Flin Flon. There are opportunities. And one of the best ways out of poverty and inclusion into a community is a good job. And so those opportunities are being made available.

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 919 We have a lot more work to do, and we acknowledge that. We have made commitments of building houses in the North. We have the–we've had some housing that's been built in Thompson and The Pas. Cross Lake is another example where we've been able to build. So we have been addressing those issues. And like I've sa id, there's a lot of work, and many partners have to come to the table to help us see the reality of that.

So whenever the federal government is willing to sit and talk about the importance of housing, good running water and sewer systems in the North, I think that's one of those pieces that also have to happen. So we have ongoing conversations with many leaders from the North about their vision and their desire. I don't think I'm speaking out of turn when I say that, you know, we are all very concerned about what's happening and that it needs to change. There is lots of conversations among agencies around best practices.

I think that there are a lot of good stories that happen in Child and Family Services agencies that we never hear about. We don't hear about the reunifications that happen. We don't hear about the family support that is given to a young mom and a baby so they can stay together and the bond that is developed that lasts a lifetime.

Those are stories that need to be told, and I look for that opportunity where we are able to share those stories and to celebrate the success because in amongst all of the multiple issues that are facing the families and the crisis that the families are in and the tragedies that have happened, that there are some successes. We welcome any proposal, any opportunity to see change. The authorities and the agencies are able to implement new initiatives if they want to, if they see fit. We challenge the innovation because really that is how we're going to make a signi ficant change in the system.

That's why I get up every morning, because I still have hope that there's an opportunity for change. And some days are harder than others, I'll admit, but I am optimistic and that there are some really good people that work and have worked for many years in this field and are committed to seeing a difference. So it's everyone working together to support families, it's addressing the root causes. I'm – we've had the privilege –one of the Hughes inquiry recommendations was that th e Premier (Mr. Selinger) take the issue of child welfare to the Council of the Federation last summer.

And he was successful of getting it on the agenda and had a – quite a robust conversation. And following that conversation, there was a commitment made b y the premiers that we would have a national committee that would look at what is the issue about Aboriginal children in care because, yes, it's an issue in Manitoba, but it's an issue in other provinces and territories as well. So I have the privilege of co - chairing that with Premier McLeod, and we are in the process now of finalizing the report to table at the premiers' meeting.

So I'm hopeful that there are some best practices that can be shared that will give us some insight of what we need to do differently to support families so kids can stay within their family unit and within their community, because that's where they will, for the most part, flourish. The child-welfare system is not a system that was developed to raise families and children. It's really about families, so that's where we need to go. Mr.

Gerrard: Just–I'm a very strong believer in the importance of, you know, addressing poverty so that we decrease the amount of 'povercy' and the importance of that in making a difference in the lives of children and families. That being said, if one looks at Nelson House and what's happening with the Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation family and child wellness centre and you look at other communities, you know, I'm not convinced that the amount of poverty in Nelson House is actually less or more than the other communities.

So I really feel quite strongly that there are possibilities of actions which are not necessarily dependent on addressing poverty and that we –can be taken within the existing child and fa mily services system without having to, you know, address the sweeping question of poverty.

And, because much as I think that we should be addressing poverty at the same time, that I also think that we shouldn't be –lose the focus, right, of how we address child and family services and be able to better support families. * (15:20) Now, I want to come back to the Northern Authority, right, and the fact that the government is now administering the authority, and I'm just seeking clarifications on what the min ister feels needs to be achieved before the authority can be turned back to the board of the authority to manage and run the authority.

920 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 Ms. Irvin -Ross: There's–there are specific issues that have been identified that we need to ensure that they are resolv ed, that we have confidence that the authority has in place a strategy to ensure the implementation of standards. And I just threw out the one standard around CFIS, as an example, but there are other standards that we are concerned about, the implementation and also the support that they're able to provide the agencies.

I strongly believe that with the support of Izzy Frost that –and the CEO of, Ron Monias, that we'll be able to address them and to get them out of administration as soon as possible. I support devolution 100 per cent, and having an authority in administration is not us moving forward. And we have a responsibility, though, when we see that an authority is struggling and needs support, and they ask for that support that we're available for them. And so that's what we've done, but it is not a long-term strategy that we have in place. Really, the goal is to get them independent as soon as possible. Mr.

Gerrard: Perhaps the minister could clarify what the role of Ron Monias is in this. Ms. Irvin-Ross: Ron Monias is the chief executive officer for the Northern Authority, and he is responsible for daily operations. He works in partnership with Izzy as far as looking at what are the policies or the standards that need to be moved forward, implemented. Mr. Gerrard: You know, I'm a little bit concerned about a situation where an organization, in this case, Ron Monias came to the minister and asked for help.

And the reason is that, for instance, if you have a situation where the response to asking for help is to take over and administer the whole organization from a government perspective instead of the board, that it raises some questions and concerns about organizations coming to government asking for help, if this is the response of government. You know, for instance, I have received significant concerns, is the Metis Authority going to be next? Are they going to be taken over? Ms. Irvin -Ross: I want to assure the member that this was not a decision that happened quickly or overnight.

This was an authority that we had– concerns had been identified to us and we had, since 2011, had been working to address them. By the time we got the–when Ron Monias approached us, it was very clear that there still was a lot more work to do and that we felt that because of his concerns and his request, that we needed to take action. We took it very, very seriously when we made that decision. It is not what we want to do. Authorities, they have their roles and responsibilities in order to support the legislation as well as supporting the agencies that support the families.

I have a lot of confidence in the work that the authorities are doing and the progress that they have made in the creation, really, of a new system. And I believe that we'll continue to work with the authorities and provide them with the support when they require it. And, like I said, I have confidence that they'll be able to work with the agencies. I also have confidence that we'll be able to resolve the issues at the Northern Authority in the short term. Mr.

Gerrard: Should the people within the Metis Authority be concerned about coming to the minister to ask for help, that the minister may takeover or become the administrative managers of the Metis Authority? Ms. Irvin-Ross: I have ongoing conve rsations with President Chartrand about what is happening in the child-welfare system. He–I'm not sure he'd like me to say he asks for help, but we have conversations about how do we strengthen the system, frequently, and we'll continue to have those conve rsations.

I don't think that there is any fear by either the CEO of the Metis Authority or President Chartrand himself about approaching and having a conversation. I hope that we have one of a trusting and respectful relationship and believe that we can tr uly make a difference for the children that are being served within the whole entire child -welfare system amongst the authorities and the 22 agencies that represent them. Mr. Gerrard: Let me move on to another area.

In the Children's Advocate report on children with complex needs, the report stresses the need for and the importance of psychological help and counseling because many of these children are traumatized in one way or another and for a variety of reasons. That report basically stressed the need t o make sure that counselling and psychological services were available for children and families. What's the state of implementation of this part of the report on complex needs from the minister's perspective? Ms.

Irvin-Ross: So there is a multi-faceted approach as we have acknowledged earlier in my responses, and in your questions you also acknowledge that the solution is outside of the child-welfare system as

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 921 well. So really, it is about working with our health partners, our education partners, so I cannot directly speak to those initiatives because we are here in the Family Services Estimates, but what– I think that you're familiar about the $2-million commitment that we made for the new child and youth mental health strategy. I think that that is a significant contribution, it's a multi-year strategy so it will be phased in over– how many?

It will be phased in over a number of years and we’ll be looking at not only prevention but also how do we deal with the children with complex needs. There are some s pecific examples where we have the northern Mobile Crisis Team to assist youth. We also have –we are delivering trauma - informed training to our front-line staff as well as our foster parents, and that is going to make a difference, I believe.

There has been investments in suicide prevention, Reclaiming Hope is another one of the initiatives that we were doing, and I think a really good example is our partnership with Macdonald Youth Services, Winnipeg School Division and the COACH's program where we're provi ding support to children between the age of five and 12 in a classroom setting, in an educational setting that have had limited success to date within the education system, but because of our one -on-one intervention, it's one coach per child and the coach is not only supporting the child, he is also working directly with the families.

I heard stories yesterday of coaches taking children to swimming lessons, but not only driving the child to the swimming lessons also the parent to swimming lessons and the r ole modelling that happens. * (15:30) So I have had conversations with the Children's Advocate around the complex children and the issues that face them and our responsibility, but our collective responsibility to address them.

So I am very fortunate that I have a strong partnership with the ministers of Children and Youth Opportunities as well as Healthy Living, and we're looking at how do we further addiction and mental health treatment and address those issues. There are a number of service providers that provide daily care and supervision for the children, and I think I've listed a few of them, but I, you know, I think Marymound and New Directions and Knowles and Macdonald Youth Services are strong examples. But we don't stop there.

We also have the specialized foster parents that have specialized training and that are able to provide support for the children. But, you're right. It's about providing them with support in the home, but also in the education system, in the community, and helping them to launch into adulthood and to be successful. That's truly what we want for all of our children. Mr. Gerrard: Perhaps the minister could provide some insight in this way: What proportion of the almost-11,000 chil dren in CFS care are now receiving some form of psychological counselling or help? Ms.

Irvin -Ross: I would not have that number on me today. I apologize for that. I will –as you know, the system is devolved and there are agencies that were responsible for the children. So it would take a while to develop that information. I will see if we can acquire it off of CFIS. If there's a way to do that, I can offer to do that, but I will report back to you in the next time we're in Estimates. Mr. Gerrard: One of th e–I mean, I think it's –well, the obvious concern in terms of traumatization of children is the trauma that comes through child abuse of one sort or another.

But I think that the less well - appreciated, but which may actually be as important in many ways, is that, well, first of all, a lot of the children are there because of neglect because the housing and the food and so on, the parents are not able to provide it adequately, even though they may be very loving parents, right?

But one of the, you know, things that I have found in helping mothers and families and children who are dealing with issues related to children being put in CFS care is that there is often major trauma which occurs when you remove a child from the family, right, and that this trauma –many of the parents, though they may not be perfect, are loving parents and they may be doing their best under often difficult circumstances, and that one of the things that we need to, I think, much better appreciate, is the extent of traumatization when a child is removed from, you know, their normal surroundings, their parents, their family, their friends, and put, you know, in care, whether that care be, you know, in a foster home or in a group home or, as occasionally has occurred recently, in hotels.

So what is the minister and the approach–what's the approach being taken to address the trauma when children are apprehended and put into care?

922 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 Ms. Irvin -Ross: I'd like to go back a step and talk about the prevention that needs to happen about children not coming into care and how that is so important that we are able to provide the supports within the home. I agree with you that many, many parents that are involved in the child-welfare system, they love their children just like we love our children. And t hey want the best for their sons and daughters, and sometimes circumstances and stressors and health issues prevent them from being able to provide that.

And the trauma that they themselves experienced related to colonization, residential schools and the '60s scoop, we have to acknowledge all of that. There is a healing that needs to happen and we need to provide that. It needs to happen in the family, for the generation today, but the generation for tomorrow. There's a lot of pain that has to be healed. A nd I wish I had the answer and I wish it was easy; it's not.

It's, again, all of us working together, but I think it's looking at where there are opportunities and where there are communities that are –example like Nelson House, when they're able to identif y a new way of doing business and to see the impact. We have a pilot project –two pilot projects that we're working on. One is with Sagkeeng First Nation and with Sagkeeng Child and Family Services agency with the Southern Authority, and it was initiated b y Justice Roller and Justice Champagne.

They approached us at Family Services and said, you know, we just see this revolving door happening and I think we can do a better job, and you yourself know that once you get into the court system, you'll lose – you c an lose months and sometimes a year before actions are being taken, and that's not okay, and that contributes to not only the trauma for the child but the trauma for the parents. And so we have what we call the circle of caring, and it is a voluntary process. When a child is apprehended in Sagkeeng now, a family is provided with the opportunity to participate in the circle of caring.

And it is one where the justice sits at the table. It is in a circle; it is in a community agency; it's at the health centr e, I think, it's where it's hosted. And the parents themselves can identify who are their champions, who are the people that support them the most –families, service providers, whoever they see–and sit down together and talk about what is the plan to get the child back in the home. I feel that that's a promising practice. I think that it's been happen–it's happened before in our system and we need to support it so it can continue.

So I know that there are many other communities that are watching to see how we–the outcomes from this initiative. And there's an interest in seeing if we can have it across the province or in other communities where they're willing. There's also a resurgence of a mediation strategy that we are working with.

It's a pilot project that we're doing with the Metis Authority, and I think that it's really –in itself it's very promising, and sort of looking at how do we work together in mediating between the family and the agency and finding a path forward that is about reunification and ensuring that there is frequent contact with parents, if that's at all possible, and ensuring those relationships are built.

You spoke about the trauma for the child, and I can tell you from my own experience as a child protection worker and what I was–when I was on the front lines and walking into homes and having those really hard conversations with parents and–but I have to tell you, I walked in with the lens of how do I support you, I'm here to help you. Sometimes people accepted that and sometimes peo ple didn't, just because of the agency or the department that I worked with.

But we were able to, in some cases, provide that family with the support they needed, whether it was a family support worker coming in; whether it was addiction treatment; whether it was, as you've identified, the issue of food and security; whether it was connecting them with the local food bank and getting them that service, that food that they needed for themselves and their family. In some cases, as elders have shared with me, unfortunately you don't have a choice because of the need of the child; because of the need to protect that child, that child has to be apprehended.

But we have to make sure that when we apprehend that child that it's done in a way that limits the trauma as much as possible. * (15:40) So I have had the opportunity to meet with foster parents, and the foster parents have talked to me about what they do to support the little ones and the big ones that come in the middle of the night. And one foster parent and her sister, they knitted blankets–or in Saskatchewan we call them afghans – and shared them with the child. And some folks are using the teddy bears for them. It's really –and hard for those children to understand.

We need to make sure that we're clearly communicating with the children age -appropriately about what's happening, but also what's their rights and their responsibilities.

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 923 I meet with children that are in care a number of times, and I hear the stories and the confusion that they feel, but I also hear sometimes that they're grateful that we were there to help them. They love their mom and dad and they want to be back with them, but they understand that at this time it's not the safe place for them. I think another way of addressing the issue of trauma is making sure that we are providing regular visits and having that contact with their family.

It was–when I was at one foster home one evening for dinner, it was really important for the foster mom that she cooked me what she felt to be a culturally appropriate meal, so we had–the kids produced it or made it for us–we had hamburger soup and bannock, and it was kokum's bannock recipe. And that young woman was so proud that she could share it with all of us. It seems like a very small, miniscule thing i n the big scheme of life, but I hope that it was one of those moments that she felt respected. And I know that she felt at home with that foster parent.

So apprehension of children is something that I know that workers take very seriously, because they know the impact for the family and for the child. Mr. Gerrard: Yes, I think that the –one of the concerns that is raised sometimes about kids who are taken into care is that they are kids with behavioural problems with very complex needs, and I had an interesting conversation with somebody who was working in Child and Family Services who was trying to understand how kids react. And, oh, he had a family with, I think, a couple of teenagers and a healthy family. The kids were doing really well in school.

Everything was going fine; there was no problems. And just to sort of get a bit of an understanding how they would feel, he asked his daughter, you know, what would your reaction be if you were taken away from our home –right?–and put in somebody else's care. And his daughter said, well, you know something, dad? I would kick up a huge screaming fuss. I would be the worst possible kid imaginable because that's the best way for me to get back to you, where I should be.

And here you're taking, in this instance, a c hild who's doing really well, and all of a sudden if you're not careful you're creating a child who's –would appear and would be labelled often as having major behavioural problems with complex needs. And so I think we have to be really careful in terms of, you know, apprehending kids. Let me move, you know–and this–you know, the family provides some really important support for kids. One of the areas, as the minister knows, I've been very concerned about is the apprehension of babies at birth.

And the problem here is that we've got approximately a baby a day being removed from–taken away from their mother or mother and father and at birth or within a few days of birth. And the numbers, you know, are not going down. I mean, we know that from the last number of years from the numbers that we've got and which, in fact, I tabled in the Legislature not –quite recently. And so, clearly what's being done at the moment is not effectively reducing the number of babies which are being apprehended.

There may be some s uccesses here and there, and I mentioned a couple of these to the minister, but when we look at the big picture around the whole province, we are not improving. And so, clearly, we need to make some improvements, you know, province wide. And so I would as k the minister: What is the minister planning to do that's different from what's happened over the last 15 and a half years, because the last 15 and a half years hasn't seen the change that I believe and many others believe should be happening with fewer c hildren being taken away from mothers and fathers at birth? Ms.

Irvin -Ross: So we, again, have initiatives that are involved in our continuum of support and, again, those initiatives happen outside of the child -welfare system. So the Prenatal Benefit is a really good example of the $80 a month that we provide so a mom, a pregnant mom, can purchase food if that's what she needs –whatever she needs –we don't – whatever she needs to have a healthy pregnancy.

The work that we have done around awareness of having healthy babies, the Healthy Baby program itself that is across the province that reduces isolation, provides parenting information and literacy information for families, I think that that's essential.

We have what we cal l the birth alert, which we are now in conversations with our partners in Health and Healthy Child about how do we best use that resource and making sure that we're able to work with that mom and dad prior to the birth of that child and start–if there is a need to develop capacity and support or if there's an issue of housing, issue of food security, securing those basic needs for them and then also providing them with the support.

924 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 20, 2015 I think Families First is a really important program that I think you're ve ry well aware of –the extremely well-trained Families First workers that go into the home from zero to five years and provide hands-on support under the supervision of a public health nurse –that that's really very, very valuable support that happens.

We als o have the –and you've referenced this –the Mothering Project, where there are 50 families that are either in a process of being reunified or are together because of the support that Mount Carmel and the phenomenal women that work in the Mothering Project are doing. So I think that what the statistics don't tell you is that some of those children will go home, will be successfully reunified with their families, and that's what we'll work towards.

But I think, again, it's about doing the –working on the prevention side and providing those services and then, as I mentioned earlier, about the healing, giving that support to the past generation so we can pass on good parenting skills to the next generation. Mr.

Gerrard: You know, I appreciate the efforts that the minister is talking about, but I am concerned that, you know, most of those have been around for a number of years and that they don't seem, by themselves, to have changed the trajectory of what's happening in terms of the number of babies being taken away, and that what is needed is, you know, more focused efforts along the lines of what's happening at the Mothering Project and what's happening at the Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation, because those both seem to have had some success.

Now, there's one, you know, really, really big difference in the apprehension of a baby compared to the apprehension of an older child, and that is that when you have a mother who is looking after a baby, who is breastfeeding a baby, that this is a time in the infant's life and in the mothe r's life when, you know, it–the attachment and the bonding occurs and they are so important. * (15:50) And when breastfeeding, where it occurs, and, you know –and, in fact, in Manitoba it occurs with the large majority of mothers and babies that –right after birth, that when you apprehend and take away a baby and, for example, I speak to you of a mother who was in hospital, was shocked to find that her baby was to be taken away because there'd been no prior notice that this was even likely.

And she, of course, began breastfeeding and was doing really well. And after four days, when she left hospital, the baby was apprehended and taken away. You know, in this case, the mother, you know, felt very strongly that this was the wrong decision. She, fortunately, had a good lawyer who was willing to work very hard with her, defend her. Six weeks later, the decision was reversed. I mean, it clearly was, in retrospect, a mistake in terms of the baby being taken away. But the problem is that after six weeks of not being able to breastfeed, she's lost the ability to breastfeed that child completely.

Now, I mean, you could argue that, you know, she could potentially have tried to, you know, get the breast milk and get that to the baby but, you know, in fact, she tried t hat and she was very strongly dissuaded from doing that by the people in the –CFS worker, and was not encouraged. And so six weeks later, she has no ability to restart breastfeeding, and the –you know, the breast milk and the breastfeeding is probably one of the, you know, most significant health benefits that a mother can provide a child, particularly early on.

And, of course, it has lifelong benefits, decreasing the incidence of diabetes and heart disease and various other things, probably improving the child's ability to deal with stress. So, you know, here we have a situation where, you know, it's not as if you can come in and rectify the problem a few weeks later; you've already done a huge amount of damage if you take away a baby when, you know, the mother could've been supported and the mother could've done very well.

It's also at a time when the mother has a tremendous stimulus to nurture the baby and to look after that, and if you go in and you take away the child, you can do a tremendous amount of –you know, the mother can spiral downhill, right? So you have an opportunity to do a tremendous amount of good if you're able to support a mother in looking after the child and breastfeeding the child, and I just think that this is one of the areas where it 's tremendously important to put a major focus on changing the pattern that we've seen over the last number of years.

I would just stress that to the minister, and maybe you would like to make a comment. Ms. Irvin-Ross: I think that what we have to balance here is, yes, I agree with everything you've said about breastfeeding, attachment, but the underlying issue is the safety of that baby. And our legislation says that safety is first, it's the paramount concern. So we need to work within that legislation. We need

May 20, 2015 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 925 to be able to, if we know that there is a family that is in need, that we're able to wrap around the services that will support the mom and dad but also ensure the safety of that baby. So Families First, again, is a really good example of that.

The family -first program sees 1,500 families across the province, and the research is showing that it is reducing the children in care, it's reducing hospitalization, that it is also, you know, dealing with positive parenting and problem solving and addressing the issue of isolation, which, I think, the member well knows is an impact that happens for some of our families. But we also have Towards Flourishing, which is a program that is part of Families First but is very specific around postpartum depression and what are the indicators of postpartum depression and starting to work with that family.

Our child -care investments that we've made in this budget, again, 900 more child- care spaces, our interest in developing what we're calling, for lack of a bette r word, the hub model, which is the Abecedarian, which is operating in Lord Selkirk Park and doing very well. I think you're familiar with it, it's a family resource centre. Its outreach workers and a child -care centre all working as one–looking at expanding that in the near future. So I ask you to stay tuned, and, again, COACH is another really good example of what we've been doing.

Our work that we do around choices and the prevention of FASD, and I had talked about the Healthy Baby community support pr ogram, since 2004, there's been–33,000 women have participated in that program. So that is making a difference as well as the other supports that happen with the regional health authorities and the work that they do. So we have work to do. We've identifie d that as an issue, but, again, our responsibility i

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-4-33
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 4th hansardpdf 33.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	f49af8ce418656396acc82db2fdf7e31f4b5f3c1

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