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November 23, 1989

34th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PRIVATE MEMBERS’ PUBLIC BUSINESS

CANADIAN VOLUNTEER KOREAN SERVICE MEDAL

HEALTH CARE

CANADIAN VOLUNTEER KOREAN

SERVICE MEDAL

HEALTH CARE

ROYAL ASSENT

AFTERNOON SITTING

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

MARGARET HUDACK, LEAH JINKS AND CHARLES LYON

UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

SUPERINTENDENT ROBERT GORDON

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

GREY CUP

ELIZABETH NESCI

GOODS AND SERVICES TAX

LENGTHS OF TRUCKS AND TRAILERS

FUNDING FOR NATIVES

VISITORS

STATEMENT BY THE MINISTRY

CHILD CARE / GARDE D’ENFANTS

RESPONSES

CHILD CARE

ORAL QUESTIONS

NURSING SERVICES

YORK REGION LAND DEVELOPMENT

PROPOSED HOSPITAL MERGER

ELECTRICITY DEMAND AND SUPPLY

REGIONAL GOVERNMENT

INTERVAL AND TRANSITION HOUSES

RENOVATIONS TO APARTMENT BUILDINGS

WATER QUALITY

CLEANTARIO

HOUSING ON GOVERNMENT LAND

ONTARIO CENTRE FOR RESOURCE MACHINERY TECHNOLOGY

INDUSTRIAL ASSESSMENT

WIFE ASSAULT

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

FUELS SAFETY

COLLEGES OF APPLIED ARTS AND TECHNOLOGY

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

HEALTH SURVEY

PETITIONS

FRENCH-LANGUAGE SERVICES

TEACHERS’ SUPERANNUATION

FRENCH-LANGUAGE SERVICES

REPORT BY COMMITTEE

STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE OMBUDSMAN

INTRODUCTION OF BILL

COURTS OF JUSTICE AMENDMENT ACT, 1989

ORDERS OF THE DAY

MINING AMENDMENT ACT, 1989

TEACHERS’ PENSION ACT, 1989

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The House met at 1000.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PRIVATE MEMBERS’ PUBLIC BUSINESS

CANADIAN VOLUNTEER KOREAN SERVICE MEDAL

Mr Farnan moved resolution 32:

Mr Farnan: In the quiet and peace of the Memorial Chamber of the Peace Tower in the centre block of Canada’s seat of government lie Canada’s five Books of Remembrance. Together the books contain the names of 114,710 Canadians who lost their lives while serving in campaigns outside Canada since Confederation. The largest and first-created of the books records Canada’s fatalities in the First World War. It contains 66,655 names. In the Book of Remembrance for the Second World War, the names of 44,893 Canadians who died in that war appear. The book commemorating the war dead of Korea has 516 entries and that of the South African war and the Nile expedition combined, 283.

Newfoundland has its own Book of Remembrance in which are written the names of 2,363 native sons and daughters who were killed during war service between 1914 and 1949, the date of the province’s entry into Confederation.

Mr Speaker, I would ask for clarification. I believe the time allowed is 20 minutes, is that not correct?

The Speaker: The rules have been changed this session. It is 10 minutes.

Mr Farnan: It is appropriate that the Memorial Chamber housing our country’s Books of Remembrance should be located in that

section of our nation’s Parliament Buildings that is referred to as the Peace Tower, because that is precisely why these men and women died. Together with millions of young Canadian men and women, they had volunteered to protect a way of life, a way of life that was based on peace and freedom.

Today we are discussing the contribution and the appropriate recognition of Canada’s Korean War veterans. We are talking about 26,791 Canadians who volunteered to serve in Korea.

There has never been any doubt as to why Canadians volunteered to serve in Korea. On the title page of the Korea Book of Remembrance, just below the Canadian Coat of Arms, are emblazoned the words “In this book is written the names of Canadians who gave their lives for freedom while serving with the United Nations in Korea, 1950-1953.” There it is in the boldest of print, the words “Canadians,” “serving” and “freedom.”

To further emphasize the point as to why Canadians volunteered to serve in Korea, let me draw the attention of this House to the opening page of the Korea Book of Remembrance. There is the emblem and the symbol of the United Nations. The olive branch, of course, has always been the symbol of peace, as the United Nations has been an organization dedicated to peace.

I have taken some time to underline the motivation of Canada’s volunteers in the Korean War. It is important because my resolution is not intended to glorify war, rather it is to recognize the sacrifices made to uphold freedom and peace and to applaud the generosity of spirit that would inspire young men and women to risk their lives in such a noble cause.

So it is fitting that the Korea Book of Remembrance should be placed alongside the Books of Remembrance for the First World War and the Second World War. The volunteers for each had the same motivation and generosity of spirit. They experienced the same fears and anxieties; they endured the same separation from home and from loved ones; they witnessed the same carnage of fallen comrades; they must live with the same injuries and nightmares; they survived similar setbacks and ultimately won the same victory. The Canadian Korea volunteer is in every way the champion of freedom and peace as were our Canadian volunteers of the First World War and the Second World War.

Among the aims and objectives of the Korea Veterans Association of Canada is the following, “To strive to obtain for veterans of the Korean War the recognition which we feel has not been given.”

What the Korea Veterans Association seeks is recognition by the Canadian government of their contribution to peace, freedom and security. Certainly, the valour, courage and sacrifice of our Korea veterans has been recognized. Korea veterans are the recipients of the United Nations Service Medal and the Commonwealth Korea Medal. Unfortunately, the Canadian government has never honoured our Korea veterans with a distinctively Canadian medal.

The arguments currently put forward to justify the failure of the Canadian government to appropriately recognize our Korea veterans are contained in a letter dated 15 January 1986 from the Honourable George Hees to MP Ian Deans. The minister argues that there are already two medals honouring Korea veterans, and questions why there should be another.

Of course, the minister was only too well aware that there was no Canadian medal, so he attempted to justify this fact by suggesting that the Commonwealth Korea Medal as awarded to Canadians is distinctive in that it is minted of pure silver rather than cupro-nickel and incorporates the word “Canada” on the reverse of the medal.

All of this cannot hide the fact that there is no Canadian Volunteer Korean Service Medal, and our Korea veterans are not satisfied that the word “Canada” imprinted on the back of the Common-wealth Korea Medal can in some way be considered compensation for a distinctively Canadian Korea service medal. They would proudly wear a decoration that clearly indicated recognition by their own Canadian government.

Perhaps the hardest blow of all to our Korea veterans must be the following paragraph in the same letter:

“Certainly, if there were ever consideration given in the past to the idea of striking a third medal for Korea service, I cannot imagine the same consideration being given now or in the future. The cost of producing and distributing 25,000 medals for veterans and their families now, 30 years after the end of the war, would be prohibitive.”

The Honourable Mr Hees is wrong. When one examines the examples of government waste as outlined by the Auditor General, the cost of producing and distributing a special medal to our Korea veterans would be minuscule in comparison to the waste in government spending.

Nor does the passage of time in any way detract from the obligation of our Canadian government. It is only recently that the federal government attempted to rectify the injustices to Japanese-Canadians that occurred during the Second World War. Surely we have allowed sufficient time to pass, 36 years, without proper recognition of Canada’s Korea veterans.

I must stress at this point that the Honourable Mr Hees is universally respected by veterans.

We do not know why the Canadian government has been so intransigent in doing what is right and honourable by Korea veterans. Certainly, I believe that the striking of a distinctive Canadian Volunteer Korean Service Medal would be applauded by all veterans and by the Canadian public at large.

It is my purpose in presenting this resolution to the House to set in motion a process ultimately resulting in our Korea veterans receiving from Canada the recognition they have already received from the United Nations and the Commonwealth.

With unanimous support for this resolution today we, the provincial representatives of the people of Ontario, will send a clear message to our federal government. I will request of the Clerk that a resolution be forwarded to all provincial and territorial governments and I intend to lobby each of these governments to pass similar resolutions. Hopefully, the federal government will then take heed of a unified message coming as it will from coast to coast. Only the federal government has the power to properly recognize our Korean veterans. They volunteered as Canadians. It is about time we honoured them as Canadians.

I want to recognize the assistance I received from Don Randall, CD, the national president of the Korea Veterans Association of Canada in researching this issue. I also wish to acknowledge the contribution of KVA Unit 13 President Alex Ferguson and other members of the unit.

Finally, I ask today for the unanimous support of the House for this resolution. Let our message to the federal government be clear and strong. It is time to recognize these Canadians. It is time to realize that they fought as Canadians. It is time that they were honoured as Canadians.

The Speaker: I did not want to take up the time of the member who is speaking, but the rule has changed and you will have a further opportunity during the 15 minutes for your party to speak, and you also get two minutes to wind up.

Our caucus is very supportive of this resolution and I feel quite honoured to speak in support of our veterans of the Korean War.

Perhaps that term “Korean War” should be the first item that needs clarification. Too often, people refer to the Korean conflict when indeed it was a terrible war. I do not know the guidelines you are to use to determine if armed conflicts between nations should be classified as conflicts or wars.

What I would like to remind the members of this assembly of is the terrible cost of the Korean War. The North Korean troops launched a full-scale invasion of South Korea on 25 June 1950. The war concluded with an armistice on 27 July 1953, having lasted for three years and one month and having accounted for about 4 million casualties including civilians. South Korean casualties were some 1,313,000. Communist casualties were estimated at about 2.5 million. The United States lost 33,629 dead in action; South Korea, 47,000; and the United Nations forces, 3,194.

The estimated losses in action of the People’s Republic of China were 900,000 men; and of North Korea, 520,000. During the war, 43 per cent of Korea’s industrial facilities were destroyed and 33 per cent of its homes devastated.

I would submit that indeed was a terrible war, and to use the term “conflict” to describe the Korean War is to belittle the contributions made by Korean War veterans to the sake of world peace. We have used the term “conflict” too often, and I have even used it myself in the past. Perhaps this debate will help put an end to that unfortunate habit.

What about the Canadian participation? The member for Cambridge has made mention of these facts. I might just mention to highlight it, that 26,791 Canadians served in the Korean theatre between the beginning of hostilities in 1950 and the signature of the armistice in 1953. The names of 516 Canadians are inscribed in the Korea Book of Remembrance displayed in the Memorial Chamber of the Parliament Buildings. The same 516 names appear in the official United Nations Book of Remembrance for Canada enshrined in the Memorial Monument for the United Nations force at the United Nations Memorial Cemetery in Pusan, Korea.

I contacted Ray LePointe, secretary of the Korea Veterans Association of Canada, and he very kindly provided me with much of the information that I am using, and also I thank the member for Cambridge. I do thank him for extending to me that courtesy.

On a personal note I would like to tell the members about a lifelong friend of mine, Lincoln McDougall, who was a young man at the time of the Korean War, a young man who served in the medical corps in Korea. I asked Lincoln if it was a conflict or a war, and Lincoln told me about the countless bodies, the wounded, the carnage that he encountered sometimes on a daily basis. In his opinion it was a war -- a hell of a war, and as Lincoln and many others have said, “War is hell.” Do these veterans of the Korean War deserve a distinctive Canadian volunteer service medal? The answer, my answer, my party’s answer, is yes, an unqualified yes.

I discussed this resolution with the president of the Korea Veterans Association of Canada, Don Randall of Guelph. He was very supportive of this resolution, and impressed on me the very logical reasons why the federal government should strike such a medal, many reasons that the member for Cambridge has already outlined.

I also might mention that I am privileged to know Gord Bennett, vice-president of the Korea Veterans association, Unit 13, Cambridge. Mr Bennett is also the chairman of memorials and cenotaphs. In 1987, Gord, as parade marshal, very kindly invited me to attend a couple of very impressive services in my riding in the villages of Elora and Arthur, and also Salem in the township of Nichol.

The Royal Canadian Legion’s branches 229, Elora; and 226, Arthur, paraded with the Korea veterans to their respective cenotaphs, and on each occasion I was proud and honoured to be involved in the rededication of the memorials to pay tribute to our fallen comrades of the Korean War as well, of course, as to honour our Great World War fallen comrades. I was very pleased to march with these fine veterans and participate in a small way on these two very special occasions.

I might also mention that a few years earlier, I also had the honour to participate in a similar service on Remembrance Day in Caledon East. On that occasion, the consul general from South Korea laid a wreath on behalf of his grateful country. Perhaps it would be of benefit for all of us to reflect on the history of that war and what might have been because of the very volatile world scene at that time. Many of the members were not born at that time, perhaps including you, Mr Speaker, so they will not have the benefit of their memory but will have to rely on history books.

I would like to just make reference to an

article from one of the historical publications of the time.

“On June 25, 1950, the North Koreans, on the prompting of the Soviet Union, unleashed a carefully planned attack across the 38th parallel. This was apparently done without the advance knowledge of the Chinese. The United Nations Security Council met in emergency session and passed a resolution calling for the assistance of all UN members in halting the North Korean invasion. On June 27, US president Harry S Truman, without asking Congress to declare war, ordered United States forces to come to the assistance of South Korea as part of the UN ‘police action.’”

I might just suggest that since President Truman ordered American troops into action without approval of Congress, that is likely why it was a conflict and not a war. Congress never declared war. In the eyes of the Americans, it had to be a conflict. That is one of the main reasons our Korean veterans have had difficulty in receiving recognition for their engagement in a war and not a skirmish or a conflict.

After the start of hostilities on 25 June, the North Korean army advanced rapidly into South Korea.

The “South Korean Army was completely defeated, and the four ill-equipped American divisions that had been rushed into the battle were driven all the way back across the peninsula to a small beachhead covering the approaches to Pusan. Then on September 15, troops commanded by Douglas MacArthur made a daring amphibious landing at lnch’ŏn...This brilliant manoeuvre succeeded in cutting the North Korean lines; the North Korean Army was totally shattered, and over 125,000 prisoners were captured by the Allies.

“As the Allied forces now advanced back to the 38th parallel, the Chinese warned that the presence of UN forces in North Korea would be unacceptable to the security of the Chinese People’s Republic and would force the Chinese to intervene in the war. UN forces, however, ignored the warnings and advanced into North Korea with the expressed intention of unifying the country.

“On November 24, MacArthur announced his ‘home by Christmas’ offensive. The next day approximately 180,000 Chinese ‘volunteers’ entered the war, and, by December 15, Allied troops had been driven back to the 38th parallel. On December 31, 1950, the Communists began their second invasion of South Korea, but their attack soon faltered and the troop lines eventually stabilized along the 38th parallel.

“On April 11, 1951, President Truman relieved MacArthur as UN commander and as commander of the US forces in the Far East, because MacArthur openly urged a bombing of Chinese bases, an action which Truman’s advisers felt was apt to bring the Soviets into the war.”

On 10 July 1951, truce talks started; on 27 July 1953, an armistice was concluded.

There you have it, Mr Speaker. How close we came to total war with China and with the Soviet Union. What if General Douglas MacArthur, commander-in-chief, United Nation Forces in Korea, had withstood President Truman’s orders? What if China had been bombed? What then? The Third World War? Atomic war? We will never know, but we know it was close.

And so, may I say in conclusion that to support this resolution calling upon our federal government to strike a distinctive Canadian voluntary Korean service medal to be awarded to those Canadians who served in this historic war is the least we can do to pay our respects to these valiant veterans, and we should urge the federal government to accept the intent of this well-thought-out resolution by the member for Cambridge (Mr Farnan).

We, as members of this assembly, must always be aware of the needs of our veterans of all wars and serve them to the best of our ability, as they have served us so well in the past.

Before addressing the specific issues concerning a Canadian Korean volunteer service medal, I would like to just go back in history and take a brief look at this whole history of medal giving. All of us are familiar with famous military medals around the world, particularly the Victoria Cross, for an example, which is the Commonwealth’s highest military decoration for bravery.

Established by Queen Victoria in 1856 during the Crimean War, it was first presented to a Canadian, Lieutenant Alexander Dunn, for his service with the British army during the Charge of the Light Brigade at the Battle of Balaclava during the Crimean War. Since that time, some 91 Canadians have received this award, and this total includes at least 20 native Ontarians.

Probably the most famous Canadian recipient of the Victoria Cross was the First World War flying ace Billy Bishop, who received the award in 1917. Of course, we are all familiar with the fact that the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa just recently acquired an original Victoria Cross medal at considerable cost, thanks to donations from the private sector or an originally presented medal to a Canada.

And of course, we all are aware of two other world-famous military medals, one from France, the Croix de Guerre, which was established in 1915 and which has been presented to more than 900 Canadians since that time; and the US Medal of Honor or congressional Medal of Honor, the foremost US military decoration, which was established in 1861.

In Canada, we have had a long history of awarding medals, not only for military distinction, honour and bravery but also for civilian bravery and recognition of outstanding contribution to Canadian society. I will just review the highlights of some of those for members.

The Order of Canada was established in the centennial of Confederation, 1 July 1967. Since this order has been established, over 1,800 Canadian men and women have received one of the three levels of award: member, officer, companion. “Recipients have included heroes, artists, engineers, nurses, village tradesmen, philanthropists, tycoons -- even a man who saved the trumpeter swan,” as reported in the January 1989 issue of the Toronto Star, namely, Honest Ed Mirvish -- Alan Eagleson, George Hees and skater Brian Orser.

On a more local note for the city of Kingston, I was present last month when the great Canadian artist André Biéler, at age 92, received the Order of Canada in bed in the Hotel Dieu Hospital, one of the few ceremonies provided outside of Rideau Hall.

The Order of Ontario was established by this government on 15 May 1986 to “recognize those persons who have rendered service of the greatest distinction and of singular excellence in any field of endeavour benefitting society in Ontario or elsewhere;” recipients such as Morley Callahan, June Callwood, Dr Polanyi and the former Lieutenant Governor Pauline McGibbon.

The Ontario Medal for Good Citizenship, established in June 1973, was created also “as a means of affording recognition and tribute to citizens whose selflessness, humanity and kindness make this a better province in which to live.”

Canada has also established several military awards since Confederation. Because of our close ties to Great Britain, however, most early Canadian military service medals were issued in the United Kingdom. In fact, we only issued three service medals of our own prior to 1971: in 1885 the Northeast Canada Medal for those who fought against the Riel rebellion; in 1899 the Canada General Service Medal for those who fought against the Fenian raids, and in 1945 the Canada Volunteer Service Medal for all those who volunteered for military service during the Second World War.

I would like now to turn members’ attention to the Korean War and specifically to the fact that there never has been an official Canadian government medal issued to veterans of this war, known in fact as Canada’s last fighting war. Canada’s fighting veterans -- although we as a country, as we know, did not declare war -- were really fulfilling our United Nation’s obligations.

Initially, Canada contributed three destroyers and an air transport squadron. On 7 August 1950 the late Prime Minister Louis St Laurent announced that rearmament measures and plans for a Canadian army special force would carry out Canada’s UN obligations throughout the world. Thus, in December 1950 the 2nd Battalion of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry landed in Korea, followed by the Canadian Army Special Force the following May.

Canadian troops in Korea fought on rough terrain and in an unfamiliar environment. The UN forces established a stable front near the 38th parallel, which was the mission to which they were assigned, and until the war ended on the 27 July 1953, the fighting took place along this line. Canadians distinguished themselves, particularly in a major engagement at Kap’Yŏng in April 1951.

As has been mentioned today by both speakers, over 25,000 Canadians fought in Korea during the war -- 22,000 army, 3,600 navy. A total of 516 Canadians died for the cause of peace in Korea, and 312 of those were killed in action during the war itself. Others died from various causes in training, in transit or in the war theatre.

Between 1950 and 1956, over 1,200 Canadian servicemen were wounded or injured during the Korean War. By all accounts, Canadians performed admirably and yet it is still called “Canada’s forgotten war.” We have a book by that title, and a video as well.

People have said there have been enough medals and pins awarded for Korean veterans. The Korea Medal, known as the Commonwealth Medal in 1950, was awarded to all those forces which took

part in the operation between 1950 and 1953. Our issue, worn by one member of this House, was in silver.

Also, the United Nations Korea Medal of 1950 was awarded to those who served with the UN forces during the Korean War. The Ambassador of Peace Medal in 1978 was awarded through the Korean government and issued by the Korean veterans association of Seoul, Korea. Since 1978, approximately 700 veterans have returned to Korea to receive their medals.

Therefore, there are four specific reasons:

The Canadian government has not recognized it officially through a voluntary service medal such as the one given to veterans after the Second World War. It is only recognized through the lapel pin.

Unlike the Second World War, there was no Canadian honour bestowed on Korean veterans when they came home. After the Second World War, veterans were treated as heroes. After the Korean War, veterans had the impression that no one knew or cared about what they had been doing. They felt, and still feel, forgotten.

Korean War veterans are not the same as other Canadian forces since 1953, when people used the argument that any serving veteran should now be given such a medal. The Korean War veterans are Canada’s last fighting veterans and should be recognized.

I am convinced that this is simply an oversight on the part of the federal government -- at least I hope it is just an oversight -- and thus I rise to remind members of the important contribution made by Canadian men and women as they fought for the United Nations and for the principle of collective security in our world.

December 1950, the 2nd Battalion of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry landed in Korea, followed in May of that year by the Canadian Army Special Force. They were ready to carry out Canada’s obligations to the United Nations. They fought on rough terrain and in an unfamiliar environment, as has been already stated, but none the less distinguished themselves, particularly in the major engagement at Kap’Yŏng on 23 April 1951.

The 27th British Commonwealth Infantry Brigade was ordered to protect the withdrawal through Kap’Yŏng R valley of the South Korean division, which had been dislodged by a major Chinese offensive. The 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, and the 3rd Battalion of the Royal Australian Regiment, were assigned forward hilltop positions in that engagement. The Canadians were to be on the west side of the valley and the Australians on the east.

The Australians bore the brunt of the initial attack and were forced to retreat, with 155 casualties, late 24 April. The Chinese then turned their attention to the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, which managed in heavy, all-night fighting on 24 and 25 April, to stop the advance of the Chinese troops. Canadian casualties in that particular battle were 10 killed and 23 wounded. This particular battle contributed significantly to the defeat of the general Chinese offensive. Indeed, the Canadian soldiers distinguished themselves to the point that even the American government awarded them with distinguished unit citations.

In light of such an important contribution by the Canadian Armed Forces, I ask every member of this House, has the time not come for Canadians to recognize the achievements and sacrifices made by their fellow Canadians on behalf of their country? I suggest that the answer to this ought to be a resounding yes, and therefore I do urge support of the resolution by my colleague in support of striking a distinctive Canadian Volunteer Korean Service Medal.

Mr Eakins: I would like, first of all, to commend my honourable colleague the member for Cambridge for introducing this very fine resolution and giving us an opportunity to rise and speak in support and urge the federal government to strike a distinctive recognition of those who served during the Korean War.

I am pleased to speak today, to rise in my place and speak as one who had the opportunity to volunteer and serve with the Royal Canadian Air Force from 1943 to 1945, and I speak today as a proud member of the Royal Canadian Legion, Branch 67, in Lindsay.

I want to say that whether it is the First World War or the Second World War or the Korean War, Canadians volunteered their service in defence of freedom and the way of life that we enjoy today. This recognition is long overdue for quite some time. I prayed to the cenotaph in my community on 11 November, and I am always proud to see that the cenotaph there recognizes the service of those who served during the Korean War. From a personal standpoint, I am very proud to have in my possession the CVSM, the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal for the Second World War, and I think it is only appropriate that we recognize those who also served during the Korean War.

It is interesting to note that we have in our assembly one who served with the United Nations in Korea in the years 1953 and 1954, and that is the honourable member for Carleton East (Mr Morin), Minister without Portfolio responsible for senior citizens’ affairs in this government. He was a member of the Van Doos and held the rank of second lieutenant. My colleague, at the tender age of 22, was a platoon commander for the 3rd Battalion of the Van Doos, and he has very fond memories of his regiment and his battalion.

But we must not only honour those who served and make sure that we keep the memory alive of those who served and gave their all; we also have a responsibility to do everything within our power to promote friendship and understanding throughout the world. We have a responsibility to be windows to the world in this understanding.

At the close of the Second World War, I believe it was General Eisenhower who said, “We have learned to win the war, but we have never learned to win the peace.” It was he who suggested that communities throughout the world should become sister cities in order to get to know each other, in order to keep the peace.

I am pleased to say that the community I represent, and I had the privilege of serving as the mayor of that community, the town of Lindsay twinned with the city of Nayoro, Hokkaido, Japan. I believe we were the second in Ontario to twin with a Japanese city and I think we were the seventh in Canada. Today there are some eight communities in Ontario twinned with Japanese communities alone, and some 32 in Canada. So I believe that many of our communities today are taking up the challenge of keeping alive the spirit of friendship and understanding.

I am pleased, in these very short moments, to rise and to congratulate the member for Cam-bridge for introducing this resolution, for giving my colleagues and myself an opportunity to rise in support and to urge the federal government, with the 40th anniversary fast approaching, to provide a distinctive recognition to those who served during the Korean War.

Mr Kormos: My colleague and indeed good friend the member for Cambridge illustrates once again why I am so proud to share a role in the opposition with him. He shows insight and sensitivity and leadership in bringing this motion before this Legislature this morning.

I, of course, support this resolution enthusiastically and, quite frankly, sincerely. In the communities that I have the honour and privilege of representing, Welland and Thorold in the Niagara Peninsula, we have strong legion branches. In the area of the Niagara region, we have strong Canadian corps units that serve the community well and serve their memberships well. Among those memberships are some of the 21,940 Canadians who served in the army in Korea and some 3,600 naval personnel.

We are blessed to have persons in our communities, and certainly in Welland and Thorold, who remember perhaps too vividly -- who regretfully remember too vividly -- the horrors of warfare as a result of their own participation in the Korean War.

December 1950 was when the second battalion of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry landed in Korea, and in May of the following year the Canadian Army Special Force arrived to supplement its contribution. As a result of the courageous and valiant participation by these Canadian military personnel in Korea, the threat, the potential -- and others who spoke about this this morning have already spoken of that -- the real fear that existed at the time of yet a third world war was averted.

The Canadian participation in this United Nations peacekeeping role and support for South Korea was an action that was supported by the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation here in Canada, the predecessors, the fathers and mothers of the New Democratic Party, and supported enthusiastically. Indeed, it was at their urging, among other things, that the Canadian government finally relented and agreed to participate in this call by the United Nations.

There were indeed sacrifices. Eleven officers and 300 others died, left their lives in Korea. Let’s remember they were young people, many of them but teenagers. They never came back to see the Canada of the 1950s, of the 1960s or indeed of the 1980s. They never came back to see their children grow into adults and to see the course of events as we have seen them unfold here in Canada. So over 300 young Canadians left their lives behind in Korea, again a sacrifice that is unparalleled, and some 1,200 others were wounded or injured.

From all sources to which I have referred, one gleans the basic fact that the Canadians performed outstandingly, indeed admirably, among other places in a major engagement at Kap’yŏng in April 1951. It is not just regrettable but thoroughly unacceptable that our federal government cannot see fit to honour these persons who so fearlessly were prepared to give so much for the sake of a freedom that we enjoy so thoroughly today.

I join with the member for Cambridge, compliment him and thank him for his leadership in producing and presenting this resolution to the Legislature today. I am confident that there is not a single member of this Legislature who would not follow the leadership provided by my colleague the member for Cambridge and indeed support this timely and most appropriate resolution.

Mr J. M. Johnson: Mr Speaker, I do not intend to speak again but the member for Mississauga South (Mrs Marland) had intended to speak and support the resolution. She is tied up in committee. With the consent of the members of the House, I would like to see our two or three minutes’ time remaining go to the sponsor of the resolution.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Cureatz): The honourable member has asked for unanimous consent for the third party’s time to go to the member presenting the resolution.

Agreed to.

Mr Farnan: I thank my colleague the member for Wellington (Mr J. M. Johnson).

I was born in Ireland and, of course, born during the war so I have no experience of what war was like. However, we had quite a number of people living in our household -- there were 13 besides my mom and dad -- and I did share a bedroom with three brothers and my uncle, Uncle Denny.

Uncle Denny was my mother’s brother who had served during the Second World War. He had gone to war as a young man and after the war came back to live with our family as my grandparents had died. We could never talk to Uncle Denny about the war. He would never speak about it and whenever we attempted to ask him about it, he would have his own way of ending the conversation. We knew he did not want to speak about it.

However, I can tell members that one of the most vivid memories of my childhood was my Uncle Denny waking up in the middle of the night screaming. He would be sweating, nervous, anxious, his knees closely tight into his chest and his hands up around his head. My brothers Des and Jim and I would comfort him and bring him back to the reality of our home, of his home. He never had to tell us much about the war. Somehow or other, these incidents had the most profound effect on us, the horrors of war.

It is not just those who volunteered and died who are the heroes of war. It is every single young man and woman who for the cause of peace and freedom and security put his or her life on the line. I think that is what we are talking about today.

We are talking about a significant number, over 25,000 young men and women, who in the cause of peace and freedom, volunteered to serve in Korea, and the reason they volunteered for Korea was exactly the same reason that young men and women volunteered to serve in the First World War and the Second World War.

They had the same call and they responded in the same generous and magnificent way. They provided the same service so amply described by my colleague the member for Hamilton East (Mr Mackenzie). Surely they deserve the same recognition and the same honour.

One of the most universally respected ministers of veterans affairs is the Honourable George Hees. Any veteran I have spoken to holds this minister in the absolute highest respect. I venture to say to the members of this House that Mr Hees has been arguing the case for Korea veterans to receive the proper recognition, the recognition of a distinctive Canadian medal, and he has been arguing this case in cabinet. If there is any possibility at all that Korea vets will be recognized, I think it will be under the leadership of George Hees as the federal Minister of Veterans Affairs.

There have been two arguments that have been put forward. Perhaps they have been articulated by Mr Hees, but it is my belief that he simply is putting forward the position of the government and not his own personal view. The two arguments that have been put forward, as I said, were expressed in a letter to Ian Deans back in 1986, a letter of 15 January 1986.

One argument was that too much time has passed. That argument does not hold up. It was only last year that we recognized the injustice of the Canadian government to Japanese Canadians during the Second World War. A much longer period of time had passed before we recognized the injustice to Japanese Canadians and we attempted to rectify it. Now, 36 years have passed since the end of the Korean War, 39 years since the beginning of the Korean War. It is time that we recognized the injustice and did what was right and proper by these Korea veterans.

The final point is that it would cost too much. I do not want to diminish the tone of this debate, because I want to say on behalf of the Conservative and Liberal members who spoke in the debate -- and I want to commend all who spoke and contributed -- that it has been a very high level of debate. But I look at today’s clippings, Thursday 23 November, an

article in the Toronto Star, and I find that a strip club in Ontario got a federal grant of $500,000.

How on the one hand can we say to our Korea veterans, “It costs too much to recognize you and to strike a medal in your honour,” when we have here, “Strip Club in Ontario Got Federal $500,000”? It says, “This brings to three the number of strip clubs financed by the Federal Business Development Bank to the tune of about $2 million.” There is so much waste in the federal government that has been pointed out by the member for Kingston and The Islands (Mr Keyes), yet the federal government says to our Korea veterans, “We cannot recognize you honourably because indeed we do not have enough money.”

I too have had the honour of being involved with the Royal Canadian Legion. I am an honorary member of Branch 121, an honour I received shortly after my election and one that I treasure highly. Perhaps what convinces me more than anything else about the correctness of honouring our Korea veterans is the view that is taken by the veterans of the Second World War themselves.

When I speak to the veterans of the Second World War, they hold in the highest esteem the veterans of the Korean War. When they sit down and get together as friends and have their recollections and sharing of friendship and experiences, the stories are the same: the carnage of their fallen comrades, the disabilities they have to carry through life, the nightmares they have. They had the same separation from home and loved ones. My friends, the experience is the same. The only thing that is different is the recognition and the honour.

HEALTH CARE

Mr Eves moved resolution 26:

That, in the opinion of this House, recognizing the shortages of health manpower in certain health care sectors in this province, including nurses, physician specialists, technologists and technicians, and the shortages in all types of health professions in northern Ontario, and recognizing that there is no effective means presently available to monitor the province-wide supply of health professionals, and recognizing that government and all health care professionals should work co-operatively to remedy these shortages and to identify the short-term and long-term needs for the supply of health man-power; the government of Ontario should support the establishment and funding of an independent Health Manpower Planning Institute with representatives of the health care professions, the Ministry of Colleges and Universities and the Ministry of Health to plan for the future health manpower needs of the province.

Mr Eves: My reason for making the motion and resolution here today is really pretty simple. I think we have seen over the past several months problems with respect to the area of health manpower supply and demand. I think it has become very evident throughout the province, especially in certain areas and in certain special-ties, that there is the need for more co-operation and co-ordination of manpower planning among both the government and health professions.

The Registered Nurses’ Association of Ontario recommended some time ago, in February of this year as a matter of fact, an independent institute for manpower planning, in its report on the nursing manpower shortage. This proposal envisioned membership in such an institute that would include representatives from all the regulated health professions, to be set out by the health professions legislation review, and from the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Colleges and Universities and the Ministry of Education.

As I said, having received no commitment from the Ministry of Health to support its proposal, this past February the RNAO went ahead and held a meeting with interested representatives from the various professions and the provincial government.

Presently, manpower planning is fragmented with each health care profession having its own committee for planning, but these committees seldom, if ever, talk to each other and they exist in isolation from one another. Since the RNAO’s February 1989 meeting, the professions have come together. They now realize there is a need to establish some co-ordination with respect to health manpower planning. They have come to the conclusion that some sort of co-ordinating body is desperately needed.

The institute or co-ordinating body must determine how to define need for specific health care professions and help health professions determine where they fit into the overall health picture in Ontario. Interested professions to date include physiotherapists, psychologists, the Ontario Medical Association, occupational therapists and nurses, among others.

We have had many examples to prove that a more co-ordinated effort is needed in the health manpower field in the last several months. I think every member of the Legislature is probably aware of the nursing manpower shortage in Ontario. There were four separate studies, each of which came to remarkably similar, if in some cases not identical recommendations as to why we have a nursing shortage in Ontario and what could be done to alleviate it.

We only have to remember the problems we have had in the province’s health care system, in particular with respect to intensive care unit nurses the huge backlogs we have had with respect to cardiovascular surgery and the problems we have had with neonatal care. Many of these are due primarily to a shortage of qualified nursing staff in those specialties.

We have seen the closing of some hospital beds, particularly in the Metropolitan Toronto area, some for budget reasons but some also, quite frankly, because there are not enough nursing specialists available to be able to conduct the procedures that have to be done. In the long run it is the people of Ontario who really suffer because they get put on a waiting list and cannot receive treatment when they need it.

We have also seen, in the last several months especially, a shortage of radiation therapists and technologists. We have gone through the experience of Princess Margaret Hospital, and unfortunately in other cancer treatment centres in southern Ontario as well, where we cannot fit all the patients that we need into our system, even though the system perhaps would have the capacity to do it. Because of a shortage of radiotherapy technologists, we have had to start sending these patients to other centres in Ontario, or in some other cases even outside the province to other provinces, to Halifax and in some cases to the United States of America as well.

It is plain to see that we need a more co-operative, thoughtful approach as to our future needs in health manpower in the province. What I am suggesting here is anything but political. I ask members of the Legislature here this morning to treat this as a nonpartisan matter, because that is certainly the intent with which the resolution was drafted.

I am not going to stand here today and ask questions or talk about issues we talk about in question period or other debates. I think this issue rises above partisan politics and I really think the independent suggestion of the RNAO for a Health Manpower Planning Institute is a very valid one indeed.

According to Ministry of Health statistics, in northern Ontario there is one doctor for every 756 people. The World Health Organization says the ratio should be one doctor for every 600 people. According to the 1988 OMA report on recruitment and retention of health care professionals in northern Ontario, there is a shortage of physiotherapists, occupational therapists, chiropodists, audiologists, mental health workers and nurses with psychiatric training.

Many of these shortages reflect province-wide shortages within these professions, but there are also many northern communities with vacancies for doctors and even general practitioners. In my own riding of Parry Sound, I can tell members that communities such as Powassan and South River have been agonizing over getting doctors and medical practitioners to come to their community for a long time.

I think the underserviced area program of the Ministry of Health is a very valid program, but when we talk to many health care professionals, they indicate that although they too believe it is a good program, there is much more that can be done in the way of incentive and much more that can be done to try to achieve a proper ratio of medical practitioners for population.

The community of Burk’s Falls in my riding has a very small hospital that originally was started by the Red Cross and is now run by the Huntsville District Memorial Hospital. They have a problem in that they have six physicians trying not only to staff the hospital, but also to cover a rather large area in terms of geography in several communities representing approximately 15,000 people.

As members can see by the ratio the World Health Organization suggests, six physicians to cover a population of 15,000 people is not very suitable. Because of that, about a year ago Burk’s Falls had to shut down its emergency department. I think the hospital itself is in danger of not continuing. This is just one small example in my own constituency. I am sure there are others especially from members who are from farther north in northern Ontario than I am. I am sure there are many other similar circumstances that exist throughout the north.

For generations, Ontario has also relied on immigrant physicians to fulfil its needs in the north, but new licensing requirements, both by the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario and by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada generally throughout the country, have virtually cut off this source without compensating increases in the domestic supply of physicians.

I think a good example of this problem was the problem with respect to the cancer treatment centre in Sudbury, which I and other members raised in the Legislature a few months ago. Last May, the Sudbury cancer treatment centre lost one of its five specialists who returned to Britain after futile attempts to gain recognition as a cancer specialist in Canada. We also know the example of Dr Ho, who we are trying to get accredited so that he could run the research division of the cancer treatment centre in Sudbury.

Two other British cancer specialists in the Thunder Bay regional cancer treatment centre face the same problem and may have to leave as well. There are only three other cancer specialists in Thunder Bay.

Presently, there are only 12 psychiatrists serving the entire northwestern Ontario region that has a population base of 230,000 people. Only one of those 12 is a child psychiatrist. The recommended ratios for psychiatrists are one general practitioner psychiatrist for every 7,500 people in population and one child psychiatrist for every 35,000 population. These figures indicate that northwestern Ontario is currently short at least 18 psychiatrists, and it has only one child psychiatrist where it should have 12.

Rainy River has a population of in excess of 1,000 people. It has existed for over eight years now with one doctor. An American doctor, through the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario, sought to establish a practice at Rainy River for at least three years, but her attempt became so bogged down in red tape that she eventually gave up.

Last year, during fee negotiations with the Ontario Medical Association, the Ministry of Health indicated reports that said there were too many doctors in the province. The amazing fact is that nobody really knows how many doctors there are in the province. The ministry says there are 19,900. OHIP says it was billed by 17,245 in 1987. According to the Canada Year Book, there are 19,481. The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario says that as of 5 November 1988 there were 24,750 registered doctors holding licences to practise in the province.

The OMA does not agree with the government’s statistic that there is one doctor for every 470 patients. They claim that stat includes doctors who do not practise medicine, such as the Deputy Minister of Health himself, Dr Barkin.

In the past 10 years Ministry of Health figures indicate that the number of doctors has increased by 22 percent while the population has grown by only 5.7 per cent. However, other statistics do not agree with that.

I think this is another reason we have to have such an institute, so we can get to the bottom of these problems. I will defer the rest of my remarks until later.

Mr Grandmaître: I would like to congratulate the member for Parry Sound for bringing forward such a resolution. I think he is absolutely right by saying this is a nonpartisan issue and we would like to deal with this issue in a very civilized way.

I would like to remind the honourable member or members that this is not new. This has been thought of before. I suppose that is where the member picked this up or is trying to rekindle this idea. He is absolutely right, but at this time I would like to point out to the member what the government has done in the last three or four years, or in the last 24 months, and what we intend to do in the future to rectify the situation.

I agree with him that in this province many doctors are not practising. He gave a perfect example of the Deputy Minister of Health, who is not practising. I can tell the honourable member that maybe this is the reason so many lawyers are not practising; most of them are in this House as politicians. I did say I will would keep this discussion at a civilized level. I would like to continue to point out or amplify my reasons for not supporting the resolution.

The timing is not right for the establishment of a Health Manpower Planning Institute in Ontario at the moment. I would like to take this opportunity to give the members, first, some background, and second, the reasons the Ministry of Health does feel a new institute would serve us at this time.

Mr Pouliot: Frank Miclash, are you going to let this go by?

Mr Grandmaître: Ontario has been gathering health personnel statistics since 1977.

Mr Pouliot: Don’t let him get away with that.

Mr Grandmaître: I said I would try to keep this discussion civilized, so maybe the member from Manitouwadge could keep his comments until I am --

The Acting Speaker (Mr Cureatz): We have a point of order, now that you have provoked him.

Mr Pouliot: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: By tradition and convention it is customary in this House that honourable members refer to other members by their riding and for the member’s edification, with respect, it is the riding of Lake Nipigon.

The Acting Speaker: Now that we have had that interjection, I would like to remind all members, of course, that remarks are to be made through the chair.

Mr Grandmaître: Thank you for reminding me, Mr Speaker.

These were needed by planners attempting to determine how many health professionals are necessary for Ontario to provide the quality of care its citizens are accustomed to. May I remind members that quality care and quality services are words often spoken in this House. As the member for Parry Sound has pointed out, he agrees with quality care and quality services and I must say that he has provided the government with some of his knowledge about quality care. We take this opportunity to thank him, and to continue the work he has done as the critic for the Ministry of Health.

That is why, for example, the Ontario Physician Manpower Data Centre was established in 1977, to collect data on the physicians, medical interns and residents.

The Ministry of Health, of course, keeps records on health personnel. Unfortunately, they are not comprehensive because as pointed out by the member, not all groups or organizations in the health field provide accurate counts of personnel. The licensing bodies that govern physicians and nurses do, but the figures we have are not good enough, I must point out, to provide a complete picture of who is in the field and where.

For instance, some of the problems in cardiovascular surgery that we have been experiencing are not due to shortages in the supply of surgeons, but rather a lack of health support staff. This problem could have been addressed if we had a better picture of our projected resource needs based on accurate data. However, unlike the doctors’ and nurses’ professional bodies, which keep tabs on their people, no one has been keeping counts on the many other health professionals. In this instance, it would have been very valuable to know the numbers of cardiovascular profusionists.

As the member opposite is aware, the government has undertaken the health professions legislation review, which will mean self-governance for 24 health professions in Ontario. We anticipate the new Health Professions Act will include a requirement for regulatory bodies to collect a standard set of information on their personnel. Once we have the numbers, we will be able to use them to draw up the planning that avoids shortage scenarios and personnel pitfalls.

There is also, I am sure members will be happy to learn, a review under way of the Ontario Physician Manpower Data Centre. We want to see if the government can learn from the centre’s 12 years of operation whether its organizational structure can be applied to centres that would collect data on other health professions.

Recently, the Minister of Health (Mrs Caplan) announced a new project that is being undertaken in conjunction with the College of Nurses of Ontario. The CNO will conduct a manpower planning project to identify the college’s role in addressing personnel issues related to the field of nursing.

It will also look into the future possibilities of how nursing will change. What new tasks will nurses be expected to perform? The CNO is also examining questions of jurisdiction and I am pleased to note that the government is negotiating with the College of Nurses of Ontario and the University of Waterloo on a major project that would result in a nursing data centre.

Members can see that the first priority is to collect data on health care workers to know where we stand. The government is collecting data in other less specific areas, as well. For instance, the Ministry of Health is assessing manpower capabilities by disease categories in the areas of cancer co-ordination, critical care and cardiovascular care.

It is no longer a matter of assuming that having a specific number of cardiovascular surgeons or oncologists ensures that the supply is sufficient, that by having X medical personnel we meet the needs of heart or cancer patients. These types of conditions require team efforts to provide the optimum quality of care. Therefore, we must assess how well our existing teams deal with their workloads.

Health care personnel needs are also being examined by geographical locations, as pointed out by the member for Parry Sound. At the moment, the Northern Health Human Resources Committee is looking at health manpower issues in that part of the province. Our district health councils, through an enhancement of their roles in the communities they serve, are also looking at the manpower needs of their respective districts. The ministry recognizes that there are unique requirements and unique situations in each area.

Both the district health councils and the Northern Health Human Resources Committee report to the Minister of Health. The information they provide will help us tailor-fit their manpower needs in the future.

All this is well enough, but specific health manpower planning has to fit into a bigger, broader picture. That is where the Premier’s Council on Health Strategy comes in.

As the architect of the new vision of health for Ontario, the Premier’s council has set up a subcommittee which deals specifically with health manpower issues. It is chaired by Roy Aitken, who brings to his role a wealth of experience and the added perspective of the private sector. Under his leadership, the health manpower subcommittee is looking at ways to integrate our planning structure and co-ordinate our planning.

Those sitting on the subcommittee also provide a great deal of expertise, representing the health care provider community, the business community, district health councils and the community at large.

I believe it would be untimely to establish a health manpower planning institute in Ontario when all of this work is already going on. I am not saying that such an idea is unthinkable. The Premier’s council may well decide such an institute is just what we need.

Now that I have given my reasons why we will not consider the member’s resolution this morning, we will continue to, as he pointed out, co-ordinate and co-operate with professions in all categories. I can assure members that the government, the Ministry of Health, is very much aware of the pitfalls, the shortages, but we would like to point out that the government is serious about resolving the situation.

Mr Pouliot: I take some pride, although obviously to no avail, in supporting the resolution of the member for Parry Sound. I have, over the past five years, come to respect a great deal the propositions put forward by the member. He knows what he is putting forth. His heart is inevitably always in the right place. He has a social conscience, is most reasonable, and I think his resolution, his private member’s ballot presentation, reflects that for it is most civilized, the least that a member of this House could ask for when it comes to recognizing an essential service.

On the other hand, one can only be appalled and shocked by the repetitive argument and refusal from the government to recognize what is an acute need up north, what is a critical shortage. To have the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Health, a person who is intelligent and educated, stand in his place in this House and -- it is nothing short of this -- attack the people of the north and try to make them believe that the government of Ontario is working on their shortages is nothing short of incorrect.

Last Saturday, for instance, in the community of Terrace Bay, located some 800 miles north of the greater Toronto area, I met with Reeve Jim Ziegler of the township of Terrace Bay; Reeve Michael Cosgrove, township of Schreiber; Reeve Gerald Brennan, township of Nipigon; Reeve Douglas Mowat, township of Red Rock; Mayor Malcolm Rogers of Geraldton; Reeve Roger Beauvais, Nakina; Reeve Silvio Cortolezzis, Manitouwadge; Reeve Ollie Chapman, White River, and the chairmen of the hospital boards of Terrace Bay, Geraldton and Marathon.

The reason for the meeting contradicts in its entirety what the parliamentary assistant has been saying. I quote from the telegram sent on 20 November, three days ago, to the Minister of Health:

“Dear Madam Minister:

“We are urgently requesting a meeting with you to discuss the critical shortage of physicians in the hospitals on the North Shore of Lake Superior.”

They want to be paid the compliment of an audience with her grace. They want to tell the minister that the programs of recruiting and retaining medical specialists in the north are simply not working. They come well armed; they are well experienced. They have been facing this dilemma for decades.

They are proposing to the minister that a northern medical school should be established in northern Ontario. At present, we have five medical schools in Ontario. Ironically, or not so ironically, they are all located in the south. Statistics prove that people tend to practise in or near the community in which they were trained; it makes a lot of sense.

What we are asking for is one part of the faculty, and not necessarily the whole course -- for doctors, for instance, say the first two years or the last two years -- so that the students would have a chance to appreciate the climatic conditions, become familiar with the medical needs of northerners and become familiar with the geographic location and the mentality of people in the north.

We are asking, because it is a crisis, that the government of Ontario, in co-operation with the feds, the departments of immigration and external affairs, immediately reinstate the foreign doctors program to address, on a short-term basis, the critical shortage of doctors in the north. Those people who are qualified in England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, among others, who have all the qualifications to dispense that essential service in southern Ontario, should be invited to come to northern communities, to remote and isolated communities, to provide that service.

My, my, the government has done it for miners, foresters, electricians, bricklayers, die-makers, but when it comes to doctors, there is nothing. I suspect it is the influence of the cartel, the monopoly, the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario and the Ontario Medical Association, leaning on the parliamentary assistant and on the Minister of Health and convincing them that we do not have a shortage of medical specialists in Ontario but that what we have is a matter of distribution.

I do not believe this. I do not believe those statements. I think they are deliberate, they are systematic. If people could not make $150,000 or $250,000 in Toronto, the laws of economics would indicate that they should gravitate to the north. That is not happening. The doctors in Ontario are doing very well. It is not a matter of distribution; it is a matter of real shortage. We can address that shortage by measures that will work quickly short term and measures that will pay dividends long term.

What about offering incentives to municipalities in the event that they would be so fortunate as whether they will be able to retain those people. The problems are twofold. What about incentives to municipalities for recruitment? Where will she or he, the doctor, stay? They want housing. Those small municipalities do not have the tax base to provide shelter. They do not have the money. They need incentives.

What about incentives for recruitment so that the townships of Marathon, Manitouwadge and Terrace Bay can exchange lists of candidates, people in the third year or fourth year of medical school, with the township of Kenora? Why can we not? Because we do not have the resources to do it and because the government refuses to say, “This needs to be done.”

I find it most difficult that a person who is educated, a person who has a social conscience, a person who should know better, would stand in this House, be the spokesman of the majority party, and adopt the policy of the ostrich, completely refusing to accept the statements of people in the field, doctors, workers, sociologists, nurses, unanimously saying, “We do not have enough specialists.” He talks of one more study. All they are doing is buying time. They are not sincere in rectifying the problems. They do not want to deal with the nuts and bolts.

I was at Lakehead Psychiatric Hospital for my second visit about a month or six weeks ago. There is a 237-bed hospital; it should have the services of 11 psychiatrists. It has one. Of course the person is a chief of staff; he is the main paper pusher. So if you are a patient, inpatient or outpatient, you are not going to see anyone. My colleague the member for Parry Sound has illustrated better than perhaps anyone can do in this House that Dr Kevin Nugent is the only child psychiatrist for a population base of 230,000.

Everybody will say: “This does not make any sense. We do not have enough people.” This man from Parry Sound wants to address that problem. He wants to address it because his constituents are telling him that this is a critical shortage, not because he fancies that it is his turn for a private member’s bill and he needs something to talk about. He knew all along. He wants to help people with the right tools. Yet that man on the other side refuses to believe what the people of the north unanimously, regardless of political affiliation or stripes, have been telling him. I want him to be well.

I want his help to be well, very well, and may he never have to experience the dilemma, the impasse, that the people of the north are enduring on a daily basis simply because, above all, there is a lack of political will, nothing short of this.

Most of the problems could be addressed expeditiously, on a short-term basis, but the government has to say to some of its friends: “You cannot have it all. You cannot practise in Toronto. You should do well, and that is okay; it costs $450,000 or more to bring one doctor to graduation, but that is okay. The taxpayers will dig in the left pocket and in the right pocket and make sure that you get an education, for they know that you are helping them. You are providing an essential service.” What about the social responsibility? What about reciprocity? I do not mind paying as a taxpayer, but I want service.

I will even put doctors as a society on a pedestal and treat them as gurus. Some people in a weak moment may even mention the name of Gandhi, en passant, in passing.

I am going to tell my friend, he should stay down south, because every venue, every intersection, once he gets past the rows of condominiums -- and the parliamentary assistant knows what I am talking about -- he should come up north and ask people in the municipalities, “How do you like it up north?” They will say: “We chose to be here. We like it a lot.” “What scares you the most?” and they will say they fear for their young people, for the toddlers, for the elderly, their mothers and fathers, because of the lack of medical services: “As I am getting older, I am not so sure. I want to preserve my dignity, but I want to do it with the services that you are taking for granted.”

Mr Grandmaître: You can’t be serious.

Mr Pouliot: The member shouts, “You can’t be serious.” Jim Ziegler of the township of Terrace Bay is serious; so are Michael Cosgrove and Gerald Brennan; they represent their people and they are deadly serious. They wonder about the minister’s seriousness. It is appalling and shocking that the most essential of services for the people who contribute so much to the economy are not being provided by this government, with its huge majority, when it has an opportunity to do so, more so because of the wealth that has been experienced since 1982. The economy has been upscale. We have all benefited.

Why not put a few real dollars -- I am not talking about nickels and dimes here -- to address what is really a black eye, what is a dismal performance on the part of the government?

Most members here do not enjoy getting up at their posts and dumping on the government, not on private members’ bills. This is supposed to be nonpartisan. But how can you not be emotional when the mail pours in by the metre, a foot, two feet high, month after month, regarding health problems: “What am I going to do to get to Thunder Bay? I was diagnosed as having X.” “Doctor, is this cancer?” He said: “Yes, but we are going to fix it. You need therapy, but you are going to have to wait six months. Your treatment should have started yesterday.” If you have some money, you can go to Minnesota. That is a northern state. They have addressed the problem a lot better than we have. So has Finland.

The parliamentary assistant has just returned. He could not stand in shame of the performance from his boss, having received his marching orders. I can understand that. I respect the fact that at least it penetrates.

I go back to the resolution, which is most palatable. This is the easiest thing in the world to do, to say, “Yes, Mr Eves, we as civilized people will address the number one problem in our society, our number one concern, the ultimate gift of health.” This is not sending someone to the moon, this is not subsidizing a company, this is people who are talking to the minister and she has said no to them.

I want to congratulate the member for Parry Sound because he has said yes.

Mr McLean: I welcome the opportunity to say a few words in support of this resolution from the member for Parry Sound, which I believe should be read into the record at least one more time. This resolution reads as follows:

“That, in the opinion of this House, recognizing the shortages of health manpower in certain health care sectors in this province, including nurses, physician specialists, technologists and technicians, and the shortages in all types of health professionals in northern Ontario, and recognizing that there is no effective means presently available to monitor the province-wide supply of health professionals, and recognizing that government and all health care professions should work co-operatively to remedy these shortages and to identify the short-term and long-term needs for the supply of health manpower; the government of Ontario should support the establishment and funding of an independent Health Manpower Planning Institute with representatives of the health care professions, the Ministry of Colleges and Universities and the Ministry of Health to plan the future health manpower needs of the province.”

It is a very well worded resolution and one, I think, that should be supported by all parties.

The Minister of Health and her government have no choice but to agree with this resolution. It has been proven quite categorically that there is a health care crisis in Ontario, and we know there is a shortage of hospitals. We know we need more acute care and chronic care beds in Ontario as our population continues to age and bed space is at a premium. We also know there is a growing shortage of nurses, physician specialists, technologists and technicians.

I know there is a crying need for health manpower in certain health care sectors in the province of Ontario. The people of Simcoe East also know about this health care manpower shortage. The minister may ask, “How do they know this and what do they think the answer is to this growing shortage?”

Well, I can tell the minister that the people of Simcoe East know about this manpower shortage because they are unable to get the care and treatment they require, they are unable to get the care and treatment they have come to expect from what was once considered to be a world-class health care system, they are unable to get the care and treatment they deserve.

The Minister of Health may wonder what my constituents think is the answer to this manpower shortage, and I am going to help her out by giving her the answer. Actually, all she has to do is to read this resolution again and the answer is right there before her in black and white. Her government should support the establishment and funding of an independent health manpower planning institute with representatives of the health care professions, the Ministry of Colleges and Universities and her own Ministry of Health. That is the answer and that is what my constituents are telling me. I am certainly listening to them and I think the minister should be too.

My time is limited so I would like to focus on the nursing shortage, because that is what my constituents are most familiar with and because nurses are highly visible in the front lines of Ontario’s health care delivery system. I understand that 35 per cent of trained nurses work part-time, another seven per cent work only on a casual basis and another 18 per cent of trained nurses have left their chosen profession because of low pay, stress and long hours. According to Ontario Nurses’ Association statistics, 45.9 per cent of its 1987 membership is working part-time; this compares to only 28 per cent in 1973.

Ontario requires at least 1,143 more nurses, and of that number more than 800 of them are needed in Metropolitan Toronto. But in small-town Ontario there does not appear to be a shortage of nurses. It is in the large urban areas where the problem is, where the higher cost of living is.

Many of our nurses have been attracted to hospital jobs in the United States because of good working conditions, higher pay and hospital training programs that allow them to earn advanced degrees while they work. Right now in Ontario, if nurses want to take an upgrading course, they have to do so on their own time and without help from their employers.

The shortage of nursing manpower is affecting many hospitals, programs and services. I have provided the Minister of Health with many examples of people in my riding who have been faced with surgery delays and cancellations. Babies requiring intensive care have been flown out of the province and departments and beds have been closed as a result of health care manpower shortages. The shortage puts increased pressure on nurses and other hospital staff because they have to meet increasing demands with less manpower.

The Minister of Health has been aware that there is a problem in this area for several years. When my party was in power, we set up a nursing manpower advisory committee which reported to the minister’s predecessor in the spring of 1987. The report, which was based on 1985 statistics, concluded that there would be a shortage of nursing manpower in the near future. The committee’s work was virtually ignored by this government and the committee itself was temporarily put to sleep.

Two years ago, this Minister of Health revived the committee and it was asked to report on why trained nurses are choosing not to work in their profession and to make recommendations to solve the problem. The committee turned in its report and we still see nurses leaving their profession in droves or beating a path south of the border. It has been estimated that at least 6,000 of Ontario’s 80,000 practising nurses will quit this honoured profession within 10 years of entering it. They have clearly had enough and they are voting with their feet.

This shortage has hit other areas of health care and I think the time has come for the government to establish and fund the independent health manpower planning institute that my colleague the member for Parry Sound is recommending. It is critically important that this institute has representation from the health care professions, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Colleges and Universities to ensure that the future health manpower needs of the province of Ontario can be mapped out and met effectively and accurately.

I urge all members in this Legislature to support this resolution for the benefit of the people of Ontario and for the survival and benefit of this province’s health care profession.

For many of us who are healthy, health care really does not seem important, but I have got to tell members that for those who are ill, for those people who are waiting to get knee operations, back operations, hip operations, heart transplants, heart surgery, until you are in that position, nobody really realizes how important the health care is.

Over the past few years, we have observed what has taken place in this province with regard to health care. Our critic, the member for Parry Sound, has been asking questions constantly with regard to the health care crisis in this province.

We had a $30-million project approved on the day before the election in 1987 for a new addition in Orillia. The community went out and raised over $6 million for its share of that facility. Where is it today on the books? The minister wants to talk in broad terms about how she is looking at the health profession and how it is going to be better, but I have got to tell members I find it unrewarding when I read the answers.

When I talk to people in Orillia, they ask me: “What is happening with our hospital? We’re not getting any answers from this minister.” This minister has abdicated her responsibilities to the people of this province. I can tell members that when the next election rolls around, I hope that the people of the province will not forget the minister of destruction of health in Ontario and the millions of people who have been involved and the people who are waiting today for operations and cannot get them because of the attitude of this Minister of Health.

Mr Miclash: In the few minutes that I have remaining, I would like to first of all say, as a member representing a northern community in this House, that I share the concern of the members opposite. It is one reason that I stand in the House today to fight for the rights of Ontario residents of northern, rural and remote communities.

For many different reasons health care professionals have chosen to work mainly in larger centres, cities rather than towns. Very few choose to work in the north. As a result, for many years we have experienced a shortage of doctors, nurses, therapists, dentists and health care workers in the north.

The problem of access is not a new one and it is a problem that will not be solved overnight. The government has already put into place a good number of important incentives to attract health care workers to the north. May I just look at a few of those?

The underserviced area program, for instance, was established in 1969 to help many of our northern communities which are designated as underserviced places obtain medical and dental services. As well, we have many tax-free grants which are provided over four-year periods to family practitioners and dentists who come to the north and establish their practices in our underserviced areas. We have similar incentive programs which are also provided to other health care professionals.

The Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Northern Development and Mines work together by providing bursaries to health care professionals, including some 130 Ontario residents each year, and for each year that they provide those bursaries the recipient agrees to practise in our underserviced areas for a year in return. As well, the ministry has recently announced a $1.5-million bursary program for nursing students -- that is, registered nurses and registered nursing assistants -- who agree to work in areas designated as underserviced.

Besides providing provincial financial incentives, the government actively recruits health care professionals for the north. There are annual recruitment tours, which many of my people from the north have participated in, that have been very successful in recruiting doctors and other health care professionals to come up and serve with us in the north.

As well, there is a committee that is a co-ordinating body for manpower and planning activities, and it has many responsibilities, including the compiling of an inventory of health manpower across the north. It also identifies what resources are needed, including financial and personnel resources. It also develops recommendations and sets priorities for corrective action to get health care people into the north.

We are doing a great number of things for health care in the north, and we believe that the problems of health care manpower planning can only be solved at the community level because each community has its own unique needs and resources. Therefore, based on that fact and based on the fact of the many things that the government is doing today, it would be imprudent at this time to duplicate the work being done by this important and timely committee that has been set up.

Mr Eves: It is a pleasure for me to be able to finish my remarks here this morning. I would like to put on the record, I suppose, that there are many shortages in health care professions throughout the province of Ontario. Physiotherapists, occupational therapists, speech pathologists -- they are all experiencing shortages in addition to the ones I have mentioned here this morning, and so have other members of the Legislature participating in this debate.

All of these professions will be in increasing demand in the future, because of our ageing population and more chronic diseases. The proposal that we have introduced here this morning is one that I think has received the support of almost all health care professions. I believe it is a sound proposal in that planning for the effective delivery of all health care services has to be co-ordinated among educators, legislators and professionals, each in their own field.

This proposal was recommended by the Registered Nurses’ Association of Ontario initially and also, by somewhat less of a coincidence, by the Hospital Council of Metropolitan Toronto and supported as well by the Council of Ontario Nursing Executives in a position paper on nursing manpower. I am not suggesting that this was my novel idea, but I do think it is a very worthwhile one and one that the government should act on. I would just like, for the purposes of getting it into the record, to read from the RNAO’s proposal for its health manpower institute.

First of all, they point out that we have many problems in our society today with respect to health care, both with respect to oversupply and undersupply, and both of these result in and can lead to patient harm. Shortages can result in patient harm and unnecessary increases in patient costs. This is all because of the inability of government institutions or agencies to institute some sort of long-range planning with respect to our population. There is going to be a 55 per cent increase in the number of elderly people in our society over the next 10 years, and certain specialties, as I have already indicated, are definitely in short supply.

Scope of practice: The health professions legislation review reforms that are suggested now and in the future will impact on the scope of practice of all health care professions. Health economics force government to seek lower-cost alternatives for delivery of services and there is a shift towards direct access to nonmedical health professions and the emergence of alternative funding mechanisms that will have a direct impact on manpower demands. There is also a big change in utilization patterns of health professions.

It is the RNAO’s proposal to establish this independent institute for co-ordinated health manpower planning to develop a long-range human resource strategy based on the analysis of the professional labour market and health care economists in order to provide government with expert advice from health professionals in an independent co-ordinated manner.

The second step that the RNAO proposes is that each profession accept, reject or amend the report of the interprofessional steering committee. Then they have a very concrete proposal -- all the ministry really has to do is follow it -- for the proposed structure of such an institute.

They propose that the board of directors would be composed of one representative from each participating health profession, that there would be an executive committee of eight representatives of health professions on a rotating basis, on one-, two-and three-year terms, and that associate members could include the Ontario Hospital Association, the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Colleges and Universities, deans of medical schools, ALOHA, the federal Department of Employment and Immigration and so on.

They have even solved the problem for the ministry of where they are going to get the money to do this. They suggest several possible sources already in existence, such as the Premier’s health innovation fund. The Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Skills Development, the Ministry of Colleges and Universities, professional associations, employer groups and colleges could all be asked to participate.

At last glance, I believe it is fair to comment that the health innovation fund announced by the Premier (Mr Peterson) some months ago has not spent nearly any of the money that was suggested or promised at that time. What more worthwhile purpose could there be than an independent health manpower planning institute?

In the parliamentary assistant’s comments with respect to the proposal, we heard about steps that the ministry is taking with respect to -- the example he gave, I believe, was the College of Nurses of Ontario and how the ministries co-operate with the college of nurses to address nurses’ needs. We also heard a comment about the statistics that the medical profession has.

I do not disagree with any of those comments, except that I think it only further sheds light on my resolution and that proposed by the RNAO, and that is that the ministry is doing this with one profession at a time and there is no broad, overall, co-ordinated picture. I think that it is very important that we do have this broad, co-ordinated, overall picture.

The parliamentary assistant also mentioned the Premier’s Council on Health Strategy. The Premier’s health council has many things on its plate. I presume that the main function of the Premier’s health council is to plan for the future policy of the government, but I think that one thing that this proposed institute has that the Premier’s health council does not have -- well, it has several things actually. First of all, it has independence, it has entire political independence.

It would not be controlled by political people; it would be controlled by the people who work day to day in the trenches of our health care system. Who better to ask for future planning manpower needs and the future direction of what is required than the people who do it every day themselves?

I also think that we have the luxury of having the specialties all included in such an institute, which is not necessarily the case with the Premier’s health council. I think the Premier’s health council is perhaps too broad a body, it is too political a body and it is not independent enough. I feel very strongly, as do the RNAO and others, that this proposed planning manpower institute has to be independent from government. Government deserves and should have, no doubt, representation on such an institute, but I do not believe the government should control such an institute. That is the whole point of the proposal in the first place.

I really would again ask all members of the Legislature here this morning, regardless of their political stripe or what side of the House they sit on, to seriously consider supporting this resolution. I think it is one whose time has come, and unless we plan the future of our province’s health care system effectively and with some foresight, we are going to end up in a day-to-day crisis situation as problems occur and react to them as opposed to planning for the future.

Again I would urge every member of the House here this morning to support this resolution.

CANADIAN VOLUNTEER KOREAN

SERVICE MEDAL

The Speaker: Mr Farnan has moved resolution 32.

Motion agreed to.

Mr Farnan: Mr Speaker, I have a request to make of you.

The Speaker: I presume it is on a point of order.

Mr Farnan: On a point of order, as you suggest, Mr Speaker: Given the unanimous support of the House for this motion, could I ask that you, on behalf of the House, forward this resolution to the federal government? I would appreciate that very much.

The Speaker: Well, it seems to be the wish of the House that the resolution is carried; therefore, I would be most happy to forward it.

HEALTH CARE

The House divided on Mr Eves’s motion of resolution 26, which was negatived on the following vote:

Ayes

Allen, Bryden, Charlton, Cousens, Elliot, Eves, Farnan, Faubert, Grier, Jackson, Johnson, J. M., Kormos, Laughren, Mackenzie, Marland, Martel, McCague, McLean, Morin-Strom, Philip, E., Pouliot, Wildman.

Nays

Ballinger, Cooke, D. R., Cordiano, Curling, Daigeler, Eakins, Epp, Fawcett, Furlong, Grandmaître, Keyes, Kozyra, LeBourdais, Leone, Mahoney, McClelland, Miclash, Miller, Neumann, Nicholas, Nixon, J. B., Oddie Munro, Owen, Ray, M. C., Reycraft, Roberts, Ruprecht, Sola, Sullivan, Tatham.

Ayes 22; nays 30.

ROYAL ASSENT

The Speaker: I beg to inform the House that in the name of Her Majesty the Queen, His Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been pleased to assent to certain bills in his chambers.

Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees: The following are the titles of the bills to which His Honour has assented:

Bill 18,

An Act to amend the Ontario Municipal Improvement Corporation Act;

Bill 20,

An Act to provide for the Payment of Development Charges;

Bill 147,

An Act respecting Independent Health Facilities.

The House recessed at 1210.

AFTERNOON SITTING

The House resumed at 1330.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

MARGARET HUDACK, LEAH JINKS AND CHARLES LYON

Mr Kormos: I want to talk about three outstanding members of the Welland-Thorold riding, specifically people who live in the city of Welland. On Friday 3 November just past, all three of these persons were in Ottawa where in recognition and as an acknowledgement of their years of contribution to the work of the Order of St John they were invested to their respective orders.

Margaret Hudack from Welland and Leah Jinks, another Wellander, were invested to the Order of Our Serving Sister of St John, and Charles Lyon, once again of Welland, was invested to the Order of Our Serving Brother of St John, all of them by the Vice-Prior of the Order of St John, and that is, of course, the Governor General, Jeanne Sauvé.

All of these people have long histories of service to their community. They are people who have given far more than they will ever take out. Their work is not limited to the work of the Order of St John, that is to say, St John Ambulance, but is impressed upon the community in a variety of areas and acknowledged by all in the city as being contributions far in excess of what any normal person could be expected to provide.

I congratulate them. I pay them tribute. I recognize their outstanding achievements and I know that the members of the Legislature here in the province of Ontario join me.

UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

Mr Jackson: I rise to draw attention to all members of this House to a singular historic event which will occur next week in Rome.

Next week, the world will witness a meeting between Pope John Paul II and the Premier of the Soviet Union, Mikhail Gorbachev, during which the Pope will formally ask Mr Gorbachev to legalize the underground Ukrainian Catholic Church which has been without rights to function publicly since 1946.

The Ukrainian church has reaped the fruits of its endurance of persecution and suffering. Today, it counts more than six million communicants. Ukrainian youth look to it for moral leadership in the struggle to regain Ukraine’s independent statehood, and even Russian Orthodox Churches with legal status are joining it en masse.

This Sunday 26 November has been declared a world-wide day of prayer and fasting so that God may so move the heart of the Soviet Premier as he moved the hearts of the Egyptian Pharaoh of old in response to the plea of Moses, which the Pope shall repeat next week on behalf of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, “Let my people go.”

With their church free once again, the Ukrainian people will indeed receive great inner strength to hope and dream of that coming great day of their nation’s political resurrection as a free republic.

May the loud ringing of our united voice exclaiming, “Our Father, Thy will be done,” be heard by Premier Gorbachev when he arrives in Rome next week.

SUPERINTENDENT ROBERT GORDON

Mr Miclash: It gives me great pleasure to rise in the House to pay tribute to a very outstanding individual who has greatly contributed to the policing of this province and in particular to many small communities in my riding.

Superintendent Robert Gordon, a 31-year veteran with the Ontario Provincial Police, will be celebrating his retirement from the force tomorrow. It must be noted that Bob has moved through the ranks, from constable to corporal to sergeant to traffic sergeant to detective inspector with the criminal investigation branch and then on to superintendent, all in the district of Kenora.

Might I mention that Bob has chosen to take up a new job that will keep him in the Kenora area. We are very grateful for this as we will continue to benefit from the contributions made by him, his wife Marlene and their two children, Ryan and Bobbi Lynn, to our area.

The people of Red Lake, Emo, Vermilion Bay and Kenora -- places in the district of Kenora in which Superintendent Gordon served -- have asked me to have the House recognize this outstanding contribution of a great northerner.

I ask that my fellow members in the House today join me in recognizing this contribution that Superintendent Gordon has made, not only in Kenora, but across this great province of ours.

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Allen: Family instability, child abuse and poverty are taking a terrible toll on children and youth in Ontario. If a child becomes physically ill or disabled, there is a right to treatment, but if mental illness results from abuse, violence or neglect, there is no guarantee of treatment for Ontario children.

Children’s mental health care services have become the lost orphan of Ontario’s health and social services system. They have been shuffled between ministries, downgraded, ignored and underfunded. In 1982, there were some 2,000 children on waiting lists. Now the figure is 10,000 waiting for treatment. Such children are often shuffled off into residential care without active treatment. Tragedies like Krista Sepp result.

Shifted a decade ago from health to social services, centre staff have salaries that have fallen 20 per cent behind comparable health care professionals with disastrous results in staff turnover and recruitment. Yet, in the recent government salary top up for workers in community-based agencies, the children’s health centres were completely ignored.

The government has to take a radical new look at its commitment to children’s mental health and to children’s welfare generally. The United Nations has advanced the declaration of rights of the child, but in David Peterson’s Ontario the condition of childhood is in alarming decline.

GREY CUP

Mr Jackson: I am sure Lord Grey could not have imagined the future of the trophy he donated to a winning football team in 1909. Here we are 80 years later and the Grey Cup is an honoured Canadian tradition bringing east and west together in friendly, athletic rivalry.

Toronto is host to the Grey Cup game for the first time since 1982 and festivities for Grey Cup Week are already under way. We are delighted to welcome the teams, their fans and all the visitors to our city and to our province. This year the game takes place in the SkyDome, where players and spectators alike will be spared the caprices of bad weather. Think of it: No more mud bowl, no more snow bowl, no more fog-delayed games.

There have been suggestions about the demise of Canadian football, but I believe the league will survive and prosper. Look at the wonderful spirit of the Hamilton Tiger Cats under new owner David Braley. In the few months since taking over, he has done an outstanding job to revitalize the club, asking the fans for their ideas, and conducting an impressive marketing campaign. Hamilton and Hamiltonians are used to winning teams and have rallied behind the Tiger Cats in an impressive show of civic spirit and pride.

We would also like to congratulate the Saskatchewan Rough Riders, the western representatives, who completely ignored the experts last week and beat out the favoured Edmonton Eskimos. Sunday’s game will be an exciting contest when the two best teams in our country battle for the coveted Grey Cup -- the symbol of supremacy in Canadian football. I would ask all members to join me in their support for the Hamilton Tiger Cats this weekend.

ELIZABETH NESCI

Mrs Stoner: I would like today to celebrate a constituent of mine who recently published a book. What makes it such an achievement is the author.

Elizabeth Nesci created the book as a gift for her family and friends to mark her 10th birthday. She has written and illustrated a book entitled the Little Princess’s Adventurous Wishes. Elizabeth is selling her book for $3 a copy and donating the proceeds to the Ajax and Pickering General Hospital, where she was born.

My congratulations to Elizabeth on her achievement and also to the Ministry of Education and to Durham Board of Education who have helped to make this sort of thing possible.

GOODS AND SERVICES TAX

Mr Laughren: On Tuesday in this assembly, the Treasurer (Mr R. F. Nixon) of Ontario indicated that he intended to amalgamate the Ontario sales tax with the federal goods and services tax. He indicated that quite clearly.

Yesterday afternoon, in response to a question from my leader, he indicated he had no documentation on the effect of the GST on Ontario. So here we have the Treasurer of Ontario going to Ottawa, having consultations with the federal Minister of Finance with no documentation whatsoever, apparently, to determine what the impact of the GST would be on Ontario.

Here we have the Treasurer going to Ottawa to negotiate how to amalgamate the GST with Ontario’s sales tax and he feels that he does not even need to have any documentation to back up any of his arguments. At the same time he is doing this, the Premier (Mr Peterson) of Ontario is saying, “Well, you know, the GST is so offensive that we might have to fight an election on this issue.”

While he is saying that, his Treasurer is down in Ottawa saying, “How can we work together to impose another regressive tax on the citizens of Ontario?” It says something about this Treasurer that he would be doing something to negotiate the sales tax and the GST being amalgamated while his Premier is saying that it is such a bad tax that he might have to fight an election on it. The front benches of the Liberals are in disarray.

LENGTHS OF TRUCKS AND TRAILERS

Mr Cousens: The Minister of Transportation (Mr Wrye) announced at a luncheon today his intention to increase the maximum allowable length of tractor-trailer combinations on Ontario roads. Truck lengths will increase from the present 23 metres to 25 metres, which is 82 feet. Trailer maximums will increase from 14.6 metres to 16.2 metres: that is from 48 feet to 53 feet.

Fortunately, perhaps, for the minister, he is presently on his way to Thunder Bay. He wisely decided to leave town instead of listening to what the public has to say about longer trucks. Trucks can barely shoehorn themselves around tight intersections in most cities as it is. The minister now wants to add another five feet of rear overhang on these monster rigs. Trucks will interfere with other traffic when cornering, throw up more splash and prove more difficult to pass on two-lane highways. Longer trucks mean heavier trucks, heavy trucks cause ruts in our roads which contribute to the frequency of accidents.

Cars are becoming increasingly smaller each year; yet the minister is pushing for monster trucks. For someone who has declared war on unsafe driving, he is sending out a mixed message.

Our party strongly opposes the minister’s decision to increase the allowable length of trucks on Ontario roads and highways. Our party strongly supports the minister’s decision to leave town.

FUNDING FOR NATIVES

Ms Oddie Munro: Early in November I met with the president of the Ontario Metis and Aboriginal Association, Charles Recollet, to discuss two issues: First, the federal government’s 20 percent reduction in 1989-90 funding of its native citizens’ directorate and second, the programs in the aboriginal representatives and organizations programs. In my view, the continuous cutbacks over four years have resulted in significant pressures on the organization, management and services provided by the Ontario Metis and Aboriginal Association.

Indeed, the reduced funding seems discriminatory, with insufficient rationale communicated, and it certainly flies in the face of supportive statements made by the Prime Minister of Canada in 1985. I think it is fair to say that this action also represents a disturbing trend of federal offloading of responsibility to provincial governments.

I would ask all members in this Legislature, many of whom have been contacted by Mr Recollet, to petition the federal government to reconsider its funding decisions and to ensure that 1990-91 funding is adequate and realistic. Mr Recollet also asked for a resolution to his proposal for core funding from the province of Ontario to the OMAA and its five zones. The core funding proposal is separate from the work being done on self-government for native peoples.

It is intended as outreach to zones and provincial issues such as education, child welfare and justice and is supportive of our government’s increasing the role of local communities. I urge the minister responsible for native affairs (Mr Scott) to consider this proposal at the earliest opportunity.

VISITORS

The Speaker: That completes the allotted number of members’ statements. Just before I call the next routine proceeding, I would ask all members of the assembly to recognize in the Speaker’s gallery some of the members of the House of Commons standing committee on elections, privileges, procedures and private members’ business.

They are Chuck Cook, the chairman; Peter Milliken, the vice-chairman; Steve Butland; Joe Fontana; and Scott Thorkelson. Please join me in welcoming our visitors.

STATEMENT BY THE MINISTRY

CHILD CARE / GARDE D’ENFANTS

Hon Mr Beer: I would like to inform members of the House about some steps my ministry has taken to ensure a continuing high quality of licensed child care throughout Ontario. As members know, we are nearing the end of the first three-year cycle in the development of Ontario’s child care plan called New Directions. During the past five years, the child care system in Ontario has grown at a rate without precedent in Canada. The licensed system will have grown by approximately 55 per cent, from 74,000 licensed spaces in March 1985 to an expected 115,000 spaces by the end of March next year.

Le budget que mon ministère a consacré à la garde d’enfants pour l’exercice financier de 1985 à 1986 s’est élevé à 88 millions de dollars ; en 1989-90, il atteindra les 347 millions de dollars.

Afin de garantir que le personnel des établissements de garde d’enfants suit de plus haut calibre, nous avons alloué 61 millions de dollars en subventions d’exploitation directes à ces établissements. Ainsi, le travailleur moyen a vu son salaire et ses prestations sociales augmentés de 3400 $ par an.

Enfin, nous avons plus que doublé le nombre d’établissements de garde d’enfants subventionnés : soit de 20 000 en 1985 à 45 000 cette année.

En raison d’une croissance aussi remarquable, le système s’est trouvé soumis à des contraintes considérables et tous les participants ont dû déployer des efforts soutenus pour continuer d’assurer des services de qualité.

As part of that effort, and as part of our New Directions for Child Care, my predecessor announced a review of the ministry’s enforcement practices as they relate to the current laws and regulations concerning child care. The review will be completed and made public early in the new year.

However, I know that within the child care community there is a great deal of interest in the work of our enforcement practices review. As well, members of this Legislature, in particular the member for London North (Mrs Cunningham), have expressed a desire to be kept informed about the progress of the review.

As a result, I want to inform members of some interim measures my ministry is taking as a result of the review’s preliminary observations and findings. These measures are designed to ensure that all licensed child care operators comply with Ontario’s child care regulations, in that way providing a consistently high quality of care across the province.

Here are some of the interim measures we are taking:

1. Checklists that set out the regulations under the Day Nurseries Act will be used in every licensing inspection.

2. After the inspection has been done, the operator will be required to sign the completed checklist. The ministry will then be assured that the operator knows about any action that must be taken to improve that child care operation.

3. The ministry will require operators to correct minor violations of the child care regulations quickly. Operators will be given a maximum of two weeks to correct shortcomings. If the required improvements are not made within the time limit, only a provisional licence will be issued.

4. To make certain that child care operators comply with all regulations as quickly as possible, provisional licences will be issued for a maximum time of three months only. If the needed changes are not made within that time, the ministry may withdraw the licence.

5. Finally, we are reviewing my ministry’s local management policies to ensure that investigations of unlicensed child care operations are carried out as promptly and effectively as possible.

These interim measures have already been put in place by staff of my ministry. It is through measures like these that we shall continue to make improvements in licensed child care.

I expect further changes will be made in light of the ongoing work of the enforcement review committee, which as I said earlier, will be completed in early 1990. I look forward to receiving the committee’s final report, and I also look forward to sharing it with this House.

Maintaining quality in child care to keep pace with the rapid growth in the system is both a goal and a challenge for my ministry, a situation that compels us to take action on many fronts at the same time.

To improve the child care system further, we are, as I have already explained, concentrating on our enforcement practices. We are also revising child care accountability and management systems, and will continue our commitment to provide community supports for small centres.

I want to assure this House that this government remains committed to making sure that children whose families entrust them to licensed care operations receive the highest possible quality of care.

RESPONSES

CHILD CARE

Mr Allen: In the members’ statements, I just completed a statement which referred to the fact that Ontario children’s mental health centres now have waiting lists of 10,000 children awaiting treatment as against some 2,000 seven years ago.

I would have thought that given the problems of families in Ontario, of children in the midst of family instability, of changing patterns of family life that have issued in major personal, mental, socio-psychological problems for children, this province would at this time have had in place a full and complete, universally accessible, non-profit, ;affordable child care system to defray and avoid so many of those problems that children who get bounced around in the interstices of social and family life -- would have some base in their lives which they do not have now.

What the minister has given us in the place of any major new announcement in developments in child care is something that is simply a reflection of past announcements, of procedural matters, nothing that goes beyond the New Directions for Child Care program of 1987; nothing, indeed, that addresses the problem that existed in Toronto, in my community, over this last year or year and a half in which, for example, there were spaces available in some parts of the system, inadequate subsidies to enable working families to access them, the appearance of waiting lists, in my community for example, for the first time in the history of that community; obviously an immense unmet need of children, of families, working families in Ontario, who simply need to have adequate and accessible child care in order that their family life may be regularized and their children supported adequately.

It is not without significance, as I said in my own statement, that the United Nations has recently moved forward with a major new statement of a declaration of rights of children. Yet for children still to be finding themselves, in Ontario -- notwithstanding the fact that many of them do find themselves in stable family circumstances, in school situations that are healthful, etc. That there are so many in growing numbers who are in trouble in our province suggests to me that the minister really should be making an announcement of a very different order today, one that would be telling us that he was embarking on a bold new campaign to provide not only subsidies but a complete system.

We know that the Canada assistance plan provides him open-ended funding in terms of federal support for as large a system as he wants, unlike the facts of the Canada child care program that the Tories were talking about with the minister and which almost got under way previous to the past election.

That funding is available. This minister can access it. This government can access it in order to provide an adequate, fully accessible child care program for all of Ontario if it wishes. The fact that that announcement has not been made today, that we have not heard that it is coming, tells us that we can expect no such directions from this government. The old program was entitled New Directions for Child Care. New Directions is now passé and we are looking for new directions out of this government, and to date, we have not seen them in the field of child care.

Mrs Cunningham: I would like to commend the minister for this amount of progress, especially with regard to procedures for quality inspections in the day nurseries across the province of Ontario. I am certain that the Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care, which especially has been involved in working with his ministry with regard to this improved inspection process, will also be very pleased with the progress he is announcing today.

However, I have to assure the minister that I am aware that this is just a beginning. Checklists have been used as part of the procedure over the province for the last five years. Certainly we know that we have always asked the operators to sign these checklists in the past. The new part will be the time frame, and we approve of that, of course. A maximum of two weeks to correct shortcomings is long enough; and after a provisional licence, if it must be offered, three months later is long enough for parents to wait for the inspections to be redone and the quality to be reassured.

I would just like to assure the minister that we will be continuing to watch his progress. We are anxiously waiting for the conclusion of his inspection review so that we can be really assured that the quality of our child care across the province of Ontario is at the very top that can be expected and we can improve it even further.

Mr Cousens: I would like to thank our member the member for London North for the excellent job that she has been doing as critic in this area to draw attention to these needs and, indeed, in setting a standard for the government to move towards.

On the one hand, we are pleased to see a statement from the ministry that explains the direction it is going to be taking, yet on the other, we are not seeing progress on actions that the ministry should be responding to. On 23 October, I raised an extremely important matter with the Minister of Community and Social Services (Mr Beer) and, to date, there has not been any action on the York South Association for Community Living.

On the one hand, the minister can make new statements, but what can be done right now to improve upon the situation that exists in our ridings to the north of Toronto? The shortage of qualified staff because of inadequate salaries and unaffordable housing in our areas has become a crisis situation in group homes. I have received numerous letters from concerned parents of residents of High Point, one of the group homes under the York South Association for Community Living, and they are justifiably concerned that their sons and daughters will be displaced from their residence if this situation is allowed to continue.

Christmas is going to soon be upon us, and here he is making other announcements, yet not looking after the existing programs. Some of the residents in the group homes will be fortunate enough to spend the holidays with their families. Of the remaining residents, plans are under way to uproot and amalgamate them under several facilities, because there is not enough staff to work over the holidays.

Every attempt to enhance staff salaries by the association has been thwarted by the ministry, including confiscation of rental revenue from the homes, which would have been applied to salaries. Funding from his ministry is simply not sufficient to attract or maintain necessary staff reserves.

The current waiting lists have now been stopped at 150. I am disappointed with the Minister of Community and Social Services in his lack of response to this crucial situation. Action must be taken immediately to resolve the staff shortage for the sake of residents of High Point, as well as all residents of the 11 group homes in my area.

On the one hand, I am supportive of decisions that he is taking to do something about child care. On the other hand, we have to be genuinely concerned with the existing programs that his ministry is responsible for, and we cannot sidestep them. He can come into the House and make fresh announcements, which we appreciate, but he should please not let himself believe that we are going to allow him to forget about the services to those people who are depending upon him and his ministry to come up with a solution.

We want to be grateful for improvement, but we cannot allow ourselves to slide into the habit of saying, “Hey, we are satisfied with what’s going on out there.” I have a crisis, which is a crisis for all those families, for young people and young adults who are at High Point and other group homes.

Would the minister please do something about it? There is a need in our community that has to be addressed, and it is not even being answered by this minister. He has not even got back to the people. They are waiting for an answer. Would he please put that as a high priority, along with child care and the other things that have to be done?

ORAL QUESTIONS

NURSING SERVICES

Mr B. Rae: I have a question this afternoon for the Minister of Health. Over the year, I have asked the minister on many occasions whether she agrees that there is a nursing shortage in the province. I would like to ask the minister: Is she aware of information coming from her ministry that shows that in 1983 the province was short some 98 nurses? There were 98 nursing vacancies in the province. As of March 1989, there are 1,891 nursing vacancies in the province.

I wonder if the minister can tell us: Is it still her view that there is no province-wide problem with respect to nursing shortages?

Hon Mrs Caplan: I met recently with the ministry’s Advisory Committee on Nursing Manpower. The information they gave me, which I believe to be accurate, is that overall across the province there is an average vacancy rate of about 1.8 per cent, which is considered to be a reasonable vacancy rate for labour market movement. However, there is a particular problem in some communities, and particularly in downtown Toronto the vacancy rates are too high.

Mr B. Rae: There is a serious crisis in acute care and critical care in this community, in Toronto. There is a serious problem with respect to care in northern Ontario, where vacancy rates are up well over five per cent.

I want to ask the minister, is it still her view, since she has told me on any number of occasions since 1987-88 -- on 7 January 1988, she said that as far as she is concerned, it is a cyclical problem. She later on said that one should not have a knee-jerk reaction. There is no problem. She said, “These vacancy rates go up and down, nothing unusual.” That is what she has been saying for the last few years.

My question for the minister: Does she regard a trend line starting in 1983 with 98 vacancies and a line now in March 1989 where we have nearly 1,900 vacancies -- can she tell me what is circular or cyclical about that kind of trend?

Hon Mrs Caplan: I want to say to the Leader of the Opposition that I understand the issues facing the nursing profession and nurses in this province. In fact, I understand that they are societal issues and they relate very much to the changing world of women in our work force.

I am also a strong advocate for improved working conditions and greater professional recognition for nursing, and that is why I think I have taken positive and progressive steps, as announced recently, to address these issues: the announcement