Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 8 April 2003 (44th General Assembly, 5th Session, Vol. XLIV No. 11)
2003-04-08
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
April 8, 2003 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 11
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to extend
congratulations to the Host Committee of the 2003 Canadian National Broomball
Championships held in Corner Brook this past weekend. The event was a tremendous
success with over 600 athletes and coaches from all across Canada participating.
I commend the Host Team for their dedication, commitment and perseverance to
organize and bring this national event to Corner Brook. Many people work long
hours volunteering their time to make this event a reality.
We now look forward to next year when Corner Brook and the surrounding area
will be hosting the 2004 World Broomball Championships from October 31 to
November 7. There is no better recognition than being recognized by your peers
for any contribution to any sport.
Mr. Speaker, I also extend congratulations to Mr. Barry Saunders of Bishop's
Falls, Bruce Moores of Grand Falls-Windsor, and Len AuCoin of Corner Brook who
were inducted into the Canadian Broomball Hall of Fame at a ceremony held last
Monday night in Corner Brook, and I had the privilege of presenting their
plaques to them Saturday night at their annual banquet. These three individuals
have a combined history of 105 years of broomball.
Mr. Saunders started playing broomball in 1964 with the Grand Falls Men's
Broomball League. He held many executive positions with the local Broomball
League as well as Broomball Newfoundland and Labrador, including President from
1980 to 1985. In 1987, he was awarded the Lifetime Membership of Broomball
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Moores started his broomball career in 1975 in the Grand Falls league as
a player and two years later started his fourteen-year career as a referee. In
1975 he was appointed Referee-in-Chief of Broomball Newfoundland and Labrador
and held that position until 1993.
Mr. AuCoin began his broomball career about forty years ago. He has served as
President of Broomball Newfoundland and Labrador. He is founding Chairperson of
the provincial Hall of Fame and he is responsible for establishing juvenile
broomball in Corner Brook.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending
congratulations to these three gentlemen and the Host Broomball Committee for a
job well done.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to tribute to Alice Smith of Elliott's Cove,
Random Island. Mrs. Smith, or Aunt Alice as she was more affectionately known,
passed away on March 30, 2003, at the age of 106. Aunt Alice was born on October
6, 1896 in Snook's Harbour, Random Island and eventually settled in Elliot's
Cove with her husband, Attwood Smith, where they raised seven children.
Mr. Speaker, I suspect that Aunt Alice, if not have the distinction of being
the longest living person in the Province, certainly would be one of the few who
lived to be 106 and remain alert and active for such a period. She not only
remained active and alert but she had a tremendous sense of humor. I recall
being at her 105 th birthday when she was asked by a CBC reporter:
What was her secret to long life? She looked at the lady and said: My love, if I
told you it would not be a secret any more. With that, she continued to enjoy a
great birthday party and again, we did it this past year.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all the members of this hon. House to join with me today
in acknowledging the great life of Aunt Alice Smith of Elliott's Cove, Random
Island, and to join with her family in celebrating the life of a wonderful
mother, an early pioneer, and a great community builder.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Burin-Placentia West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS M. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, recently, the first four recipients of the Peter Gzowski
Internships of CBC Radio were named.
Frank Durnford, one of these first four recipients from across Canada, comes
from Creston South. Mr. Durnford, who is attending Memorial University, will be
given the opportunity to delve into the many components that make radio.
Mr. Durnford and the other interns will participate in a program that will
begin in Toronto at the Canadian Broadcasting Centre learning the basics of
radio production. Once this first week is complete, the interns will move to a
different location to continue their studies.
The Peter Gzowski Internships program was created to honour one of radios
most enduring voices. The winner of many awards and twelve honorary doctorates,
Mr. Gzowski died in January, 2002. Through this internship program named after
Mr. Gzowski, his legacy in radio will live on.
I would ask Members of the House of Assembly to join with me in
congratulating Mr. Frank Durnford on being chosen to receive this award and also
in wishing him well in his future endeavours.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
For nearly 120 years the RCMP depot in Regina, Saskatchewan, has been
training members of our federal police force. Young Canadians have come from
right across this country to partake and be part of this wonderful world-renown
police force.
Mr. Speaker, we have a first on the Cape Shore in my district, and I am very
pleased today to stand and congratulate Ms Debbie Morrissey from Cuslett,
Placentia Bay, a small community of fifty people, who graduated from the Police
Academy yesterday, April 7, 2003.
Ms Morrissey is fulfilling a lifelong dream that she has and will be
stationed in Surrey, British Columbia, on April 16, 2003.
To commemorate this very special occasion, there will be a party on the lower
road in Cuslett on Friday night, April 11, and I guarantee you we are going to
have a party to celebrate Ms Debbie Morrissey's induction into the RCMP.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased to stand in this House today to congratulate and commend the
Grade 6 class at Memorial Academy in Wesleyville, New-Wes-Valley on their
recycling program.
Last September Mr. Eli Cross, the school Principal, and his staff, decided
that they wanted to do something different with their schools' recycling
program. In the past they just had the bin outside the school where parents or
anybody could drop off their recyclables as a donation to the school. They came
up with the idea of a fundraiser this year with a twist. Their slogan is: We don't
want your money, just give us your trash and we'll turn it into cash.
First they solicited the local businesses for cash donations to give out
prizes. Every Wednesday is Green Day at the school. When a student brought along
five items, they would get a ticket to go in the draw for a prize. The number of
recyclables went from 600 to 700 per month to 4,000 to 5,000 per month.
In February of this year, they put on an extra special drive and ended up
collecting approximately 22,000 containers. For that month they raised
approximately $2,200 for bringing their recyclables to the school. Since
October, they have collected approximately 45,000 containers. While they will
probably raise about $5,000 before the school is over for activities and
programs, the biggest bonus is instilling in themselves the fact that they are
helping the environment.
Again, I would like to congratulate Mr. Cross, his staff and the Grade 6
Green Team at Memorial Academy in Wesleyville, and everyone else who
participated in this great project.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge the Province's
Youth Advisory Committee and commend them on their completion of their first
annual report entitled: A Youth's Future is Today. This document, which
contains twenty-two recommendations, was presented to myself and Premier Grimes
this morning.
The Youth Advisory Committee was established in June, 2001, to give youth a
direct voice to government. Never before have young people been so well informed
and capable of providing advice and input to government on policies and
programs.
The recommendations included in the Committee's report address issues
ranging from student aid reform to income support, and including the views of
youth in the Royal Commission's report on Renewing and Strengthening Our Place
in Canada.
Youth and youth-related issues are a high priority to the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador. Even though we live in a day when so many demands are
being placed upon us, we must not underestimate the need to continue to invest
in our young people. They are tomorrow's leaders and our future.
I also wish to acknowledge the role in which Sandra Kelly, as the former
Minister of Youth, Services and Post-Secondary Education -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: - played the important part of development of the Youth
Advisory Committee and I recognize that this morning. I am very proud of your
accomplishments in this area, Ms Kelly, my colleague.
As the new minister, I look forward to building on the partnership my
colleague has developed with our youth and pledge this government's commitment
to carefully reviewing the Committee's recommendations.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to table this report today.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I certainly would thank the minister for an advance copy of the statement. I
stand as well, and I am sure my colleagues on this side of the House would as
well, to congratulate the Youth Advisory Committee, certainly for their
dedication, for their commitment, and, more importantly I suppose, or as
importantly, their strong voice, as well as the four adult mentors who were
there to help these young people put together this Committee.
The recommendations, I would say to the minister, are spot-on, especially in
the areas of affordable education, youth employment and career direction,
empowerment and equality. We have these recommendations, they are being
presented to the government, but a word of caution, I say, Mr. Speaker, because
the voice of the youth had been heard through the 1990s, and Generation X that
went through the 1990s turned into generation death.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HEDDERSON: Their voices were loud, they were clear, and they were
ignored, so I am asking this minister to make sure that the voices of the youth
are heard, and not only heard but acted upon.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We are certainly glad to see the recommendations of the Youth Advisory
Committee but I want to acknowledge here today the work of student groups over
the past six or seven years since this government and its predecessors starting
gutting post-secondary education support: the MUN Students' Union, the
Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Students, who worked tirelessly as a
representative accountable body back to their schools, back to their students,
elected by them instead of a hand-picked group that is advising government that
is not really accountable. I think we have to recognize that these young people
have something say, but, on the other hand -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: - are a representative group that are elected to represent
the interests of young people in this Province.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions this afternoon are for the Premier.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday we learned that this government is indeed going to
privatize the provision of long-term health care facilities in Corner Brook. In
fact, the plan appears to advance to the stage where government has already
examined the issue of union succession rights. Furthermore, the proposal seeking
private interest appears to have already been drafted. According to Hansard, the
Premier said private companies, and I quote: absolutely have to provide a
standard of service.
Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that privatized health care facilities
are guaranteed a certain level of profit. The government pays the private
company a premium over the cost of constructing and operating the particular
facility.
Mr. Speaker, can the Premier please confirm that this level of profit is what
has increased the cost of constructing the facility in Corner Brook from the
original estimate of $50 million to the new estimate of $70 million?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate the question and the very desperate attempt of the Leader of the
Opposition to continue on with this issue.
Mr. Speaker, there have been no changes in the estimates with respect to the
facility in Corner Brook. For the record, and the Leader of the Opposition
knowing that should make that clear, there will be no privatization of health
care in Newfoundland and Labrador with this particular government. He knows
that, and why he would persist in characterizing it otherwise is beyond me, Mr.
Speaker, and I think it should be called into question.
Mr. Speaker, it is interesting, however, to see the continuing changing in
the position of the Leader of the Opposition who, a little while ago, said: I
cannot make commitments to the people of Corner Brook at this point in time. I
am not prepared to go out and make political promises. I cannot responsibly do
that, and I am not prepared to do it. I think the people are going to find out
that, as we lead up to an election, I am just not going to come out and do those
kinds of things. In Hansard, yesterday, he says: We will go and build the
facility. We will build the facility too, Mr. Speaker, and we will find a way to
do it within the means of the government and protect the needs of the people.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Premier seems to very carefully select his headlines and his
quotes. Yesterday, he said there was a quote from me that said it was not a high
priority to build a long term health care facility in Corner Brook. I quote The
Western Star: The Western Star would like to clarify that the
headline accompanying Friday's story, which stated a new facility was not a
high priority with Williams, did not accurately reflect William's comments.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the Romanow Commission on health care stated
that an overwhelming majority of Canadians don't want a private health care
system. The President of CUPE has stated publicly that the Premier will not even
discuss the issue of privatization and continues to stick his head in the sand.
He is prepared to privatize health care, Mr. Speaker, without even listening to
the concerns of the people.
Mr. Speaker, in light of the fact that the Premier himself acknowledged
yesterday that this facility could be between $50 and $70 million, an extra $20
million, will he not admit that it is merely just another opportunity to reward
companies with strong Liberal ties just as it did with Trans City?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me repeat again for the record, because it bears repeating: There will be
no privatization of health care in Newfoundland and Labrador by this particular
government, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, what we have laid out for discussion and for
a proposal that will happen within the next fifty days or so, to meet a need in
Corner Brook which is also a need in Conception Bay North and here in St. John's,
is a process whereby we will guarantee nationally accredited and approved levels
of service for people in long term care in Newfoundland and Labrador. No doubt
about it, Mr. Speaker, no doubt about it, none whatsoever, we will guarantee
that it is done with the right mix of professionals who provide that care in
jurisdictions right across the country because it is the national standard that
will be met. It will be paid for by the taxpayers of the Province, 100 per cent,
as it is today, with the same rules and conditions for entering the system as
exist today, with any fees and charges the same as they are today, Mr. Speaker.
We will examine methods to do that sooner rather than later, and one of them is
through a private-public partnership, so that we can meet the needs today rather
than wait for four, six, eight, ten, twelve or fifteen years.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, it appears that the Premier is saying one
thing and the new designated spokesperson for health care, Mr. Mercer, Humber
East, is saying something completely different.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I have noticed on a number of occasions now that members, when referring to
other members of this Legislature, have been calling them by name.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask hon. members that, when they refer to a member of the House, to use the
constituency that they represent.
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, this Province just brought down an election budget that had a
deficit of $286 million, and the Province's debt increased to well over $11
billion. The Member for Humber East said the Province's credit card, while not
maxed out, is getting pretty close to the line.
Mr. Speaker, my question for the Premier is: If the credit card is at or near
its maximum, what possible reason could there be for privatizing health care and
unnecessarily spending an additional $20 million of taxpayers' money to
privatize a long-term health care facility in Corner Brook?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me say it again, quite clearly. The government is not contemplating the
privatization of health care under any set of circumstances. We are
contemplating a private-public partnership to provide for publicly funded health
care at nationally approved standards, with entry and access to the system
exactly as it is today through the publicly functioning health care boards in
Western Newfoundland, in the northern part of Conception Bay, Conception Bay
North, and here in St. John's.
Mr. Speaker, we are not talking about any increased cost. As a matter of
fact, the whole idea of going through an Expression of Interest and a Request
for Proposals is to get it done at a lower cost than if we did it ourselves.
That is what the Expression of Interest and the Request for Proposals will
actually flesh out for us, Mr. Speaker.
As a matter of fact, in meeting with the committee on Thursday evening in
Corner Brook, we did point out to them that if an Expression of Interest and a
Request for Proposals does not demonstrate that we can provide the same, if not
an improved, level of care for the long-term care needs of these residents in
Corner Brook at lower than or equivalent cost to what the government would do it
ourselves, there is no point in us doing it. The whole notion is to provide the
level of care that is needed at a cost that is less than what it would cost the
government if we did it ourselves through traditional methods.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
That is a different position than yesterday. The Premier seems to backing off
his position. It is also a different position than that stated by the designated
spokesperson for the health care in the Province, the Member for Humber East. We
will get to that, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, privatization has not worked in other provinces. The auditors
for projects in New Brunswick have said that because of the private sector's
need for profit, privatization of public projects have created additional costs.
In fact, the Government of Nova Scotia said that its privatization was a
failure. Mr. Speaker, in light of the fact that other maritime governments have
had bad experiences with privatization, and large interest groups in this
Province are vehemently opposed to it, can the Premier explain why he continues
to stick his head in the sand and proceed with privatization of health care at
all costs?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me say it again, Mr. Speaker, because I think it is characterized by an
old expression that goes something like: There is none so blind as he who would
not see, and none so deaf as he who would not hear.
Let me say it again. The government is not contemplating privatized health
care. Let me say it one more time. The government is not contemplating
privatized health care in any way, shape or form. What we are looking at is a
system and a proposal whereby nationally accredited and approved levels of care
will be provided for the long-term residents of Corner Brook and the rest of the
Province, if we are successful, at a cost that is less than, or no more than
equivalent to, the government doing it itself by traditional means. We will find
out if that is possible through an Expression of Interest and a Request for
Proposals.
My view, and the view, as I understand it, of the committee in Corner Brook,
is that why anyone would not want to go through that process to find out if it
is possible or not is beyond me. That is the group that is burying their heads
in the sand.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, it is a group that would not even want to
examine the circumstance under which the level of care could be guaranteed, the
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: - and the taxpayers could pay less for the same service,
Mr. Speaker. That is what we are trying to accomplish.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, let's deal with what the Minister for
Environment, the Member for Humber East, is saying on the airwaves in the last
twenty-four hours. He acknowledged that there are two options. One was that the
private sector staff the facility and operate it, and the other one was that the
Province staff it and operate it and lease it back. Then he went on to say,
between those two posts there are all kinds of possibilities. So, you have one
privatization here and you have another privatization here -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his question.
MR. WILLIAMS: - and in between here the minister is saying there are all
kinds of privatization possibilities.
Mr. Speaker, in light of the fact that his minister is laying out all kinds
of possibilities for privatization -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member to get to his question quickly.
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, in light of the fact that his own minister is
laying out all kinds of privatization possibilities, could the Premier tell the
people of this Province: What are all those different possibilities, and what is
the financial analysis, the resource analysis, the standard of care analysis,
and what are the consequences for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador for
the many different forms of privatization that he and his minister is
contemplating?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me repeat again, it seems to be kind of pointless to pursue the line of
questioning when the Leader of the Opposition wants to talk about privatization
which we are not doing.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I can say this, that in the Expression of
Interest, which I am sure that the people of Corner Brook and the people of the
Province would like to see, and the Request for Proposals the comes from that,
we will have examined and determined how we guarantee the level of care that
the system on the same manner that it is done today through a single entry
evaluation system conducted by public health officials, which is the way it is
done everywhere in the Province today; how we will guarantee that there are no
extra charges to individuals and that if it is a private sector person who is
building and even operating the facility, that they cannot charge the people
anything other than what would be charged here in any other facility - even the
ones that are on the West Coast today, run by the government directly. All of
those things will be laid out in the expression of interest and the request for
proposals. There is no private health care being contemplated by this
government. It seems kind of pointless if the Leader of the Opposition does not
understand that or does not want to understand that, then there is not much
point in pursuing the line of questioning, Mr .Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the designated spokesperson for health care,
the Minister of Environment, the Member for Humber East, was also on Open Line
this morning and said that the Province cannot afford to borrow the money needed
to build the long-term care facility. He said: Borrowing the money could
jeopardize the Province's credit rating.
Mr. Speaker, can the Premier explain, is this the real reason why this
government is privatizing health care, because of its fiscal mismanagement? The
Province's credit rating is so fragile it cannot sustain a loan between $50
million and $70 million. Was this year's deficit so bad that we have maxed out
all our borrowing capacity?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The facts of the matter are these. There is no privatization of health care
occurring or being contemplated by this particular government. We are trying to
find the right and proper and appropriate way to meet the needs for long-term
care, first and foremost, in Corner Brook and then in other regions of the
Province. There is no fiscal mismanagement. The fact of the matter is we have
made the choices and laid them out in the Budget.
As a matter of fact, and here is where the issue really comes to the floor.
The Opposition would have to suggest that if we had decided to borrow $50
million this year in cash to build a facility in Corner Brook, then there is $50
million worth of other expenditures in our Budget that would have to be taken
out to have the same budget that we presented today. Maybe he would like to
stand up now and talk to the people of the Province about the $50 million worth
of programs and services that we have laid out in our Budget that he does not
agree with and would take out of the Budget because he would want to do
something else, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, we have made our choices. We have laid out
our plan in the Budget. We stand by it, and with that done -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier to now conclude his answer, quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: - we can still find a way to meet the needs in Corner
Brook, along with the rest of the plans that we have.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are also for the Premier.
In light of the fact that the Premier had trouble answering my questions
yesterday on personnel within government, I want to ask him a couple of
questions on another issue that has been brought to my attention: Is the Premier
aware that a former Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural Development purchased
several costly items under the departmental budget, including a computer, desk,
VCR, laptop computer, fax machine and shredder? Even though many attempts were
made to retrieve these particular items, they have still not been returned. I
would like to ask the Premier: Is he aware of this situation, and has it been
brought to his attention?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: No, Mr. Speaker, it has not been brought to my attention,
but I am sure if it is a issue, it is being dealt with in the government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, the items purchased were at a cost close to
$10,000 and were purchased for the Department of Industry, Trade and Rural
Development. Several people from this particular department have been involved
over the past number of months trying to retrieve this equipment. Personnel,
right up and including the Deputy Minister, have all made attempts but to no
avail.
I would like to ask the Premier: Will he take it upon himself here today to
investigate this matter and report back to the House tomorrow?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Most certainly, now that it has been brought to my attention I will have it
looked into.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday I received a copy of a letter that was sent by
Minister Gerry Byrne to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture for the
Province. It is obvious in the letter that Minister Byrne has distanced himself
from the all-party committee recommendations, and it is also obvious that the
minister is prepared to close the fishery in 4RS+3Pn and 2J+3KL.
Mr. Speaker, in light of the fact that the comments of the Province's
Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, shortly after the FRCC recommendations
came down, were referenced in this letter, I would like to ask the minister: Has
she had any contact with Minister Byrne since she received this letter and, if
so, does she share the same views that Minister Byrne put forth in this letter?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I did send off a letter to Minister Byrne last week and I did
receive a response to it. I would like to say to the hon. member, Mr. Speaker,
that my position stands as it always has been, and that is that we would like to
see this fishery continue in both areas of the Province. My letter to Minister
Byrne outlined that specifically at that time.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, one of the members said that it was a good
answer, but obviously Minister Byrne and the federal government haven't heard
that.
He goes on to say in his letter, Mr. Speaker: I have heard your public
comments that the 3,500 ton fishery recommended by the FRCC in 4RS+3Pn would not
be a viable fishery for those who depend on this stock and the fishery would be
better off closed. As I raised here last week, Mr. Speaker, these were the
comments of the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture. He acknowledges, Mr.
Speaker, that this is the opinion of the Province's Minister of Fisheries and
Aquaculture.
Would the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, today, Mr. Speaker, confirm
that her comments, after the FRCC report came down, are jeopardizing the
possibility of a fishery, particularly on the North West Coast, Southern
Labrador and on the South West Coast of this Province in 4RS+3Pn. It certainly
contradicts the report of the all-party committee.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to say to the hon. Member for Ferryland, before I respond to my
hon. colleague, that the only flip-flop in this House is on that side of the
House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: And I intend to clarify that for him immediately.
Mr. Speaker, let me outline, quite clearly, that in the letter I had written
to Minister Byrne - and I will read directly from this letter and I will table
it after that - the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador remains committed to
the position prepared by the all-party committee and I urge you -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: - to lend your strong support so that we can avoid the
devastating impacts of fisheries closures on the people and communities of rural
Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits
& White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, as part of our all-party committee deliberations
we decided that we would not talk to the federal government about compensation
programs for fishermen, plant workers and those who might be affected by a
closure of the cod fishery in 4RS+3Pn or 2J+3KL. The letter that Minister Byrne
sent back goes on to suggest that provincial government officials, on their own
initiative, have already started the process of discussing this issue with
federal government officials some weeks ago - some weeks ago, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to ask the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, or any other
minister who might be involved with these discussions, who those government
officials are, what they are discussing, and doesn't this confirm that this
government has accepted that the closure of this fishery is going to take place?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the references that Minister Byrne makes in his
letter are not directly to anything that I have written to him. You can look at
the letter and see that quite clearly.
I will tell you this, Mr. Speaker, that this minister is not willing to go
into Ottawa -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS JONES: I will tell you, Mr. Speaker, that this minister is not willing
to just walk into Ottawa under the cloak of an all-party committee, drop a
report on the table of the minister and walk away.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: I am more concerned about what is going on in this fishery. I
am more concerned about what the impacts of any decision that minister takes
would be on the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. I have followed this issue,
I will continue to follow this issue, and I will say again, Mr. Speaker, closure
is not the answer and I stand by that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Mines and Energy.
Under current legislation, the Newfoundland Power is allowed to receive a
rate of return, or profit, on what is called rate base, which is unlike most
utilities in Canada.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Under current legislation, Newfoundland Power is entitled to receive a rate
of return on rate base, or a profit on rate base, which is unlike most utilities
in the country. This has resulted in problems in regulating Newfoundland Power
and has caused over-earnings by Newfoundland Power over the past few years.
Mr. Speaker, the problem has been identified by the Consumer Advocate and
could be resolved by changing the legislation to allow the Public Utilities
Board to regulate on the basis of a return on equity.
Is the minister willing to introduce legislation into the House during this
session to affect the current rate application to allow the Public Utilities
Commission to do that, and to control the rate of return on equity of
Newfoundland Power the way it should be?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. NOEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to assure the hon. member that we are interested and intend to do
anything that we can to make sure we have the most efficient possible
electricity system in our Province, to make sure we have a system that is going
to provide electricity efficiently and at the lowest possible cost.
As I have said in the past few days, Mr. Speaker, we are in the process of
reviewing electricity for the Province for the next number of years and we are
contemplating all of the suggestions that are being proposed. Once we are
convinced of the proper action to take, we will be prepared to act hastily.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is easy for the minister to repeat platitudes to the House of Assembly,
but in February of this year the Consumer Advocate wrote every member of the
House outlining the problems with the current situation and suggesting that
excess earnings, for example, of which there was nearly $1 million in 2001,
should be, by legislation, put back into the pockets of consumers instead of
letting the Public Utilities Board decide what to do with it. Will the minister
do the specific thing that the Consumer Advocate asked, and change the
legislation now so that excess earnings that Newfoundland Power is earning, over
what they have been allowed, are in fact returned to the consumer and not used
for some other purpose?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. NOEL: Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are keeping track of what is going on in
the present process before the Public Utilities Board. We do not want to
interfere in that process. We will let that process take its course. When that
is completed, we will review the various arguments that have been made. We are
concerned that rate payers in the Province may be paying more money than they
need to pay for electricity provided by Newfoundland Power, and that is one of
the reasons why we are prepared also to look at whether an argument can be made
for combining Newfoundland Power and Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. We are
open-minded in all of these issues, Mr. Speaker, and we are going to make the
decision that is in the best interest of the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal
Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We are certainly convinced that it is in the best interest of the people of
this Province to have their own power corporation that includes Newfoundland
Power, but in the short term, Mr. Speaker, there are two specific things that
this government can do in this session to ensure that $1 million goes back into
the consumers hands, and that for the short term Newfoundland Power will be
regulated properly: a very simple amendment which we can do in this House of
Assembly in this session. Will the minister do it?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. NOEL: Mr. Speaker, as I have said, we are prepared to take whatever
action is necessary to ensure we have proper electricity service in the
Province, and we will act when we are convinced the time is right for doing
that.
The hearings are going on before the Public Utilities Board, and this session
will be going on for some months to come, and we will have an opportunity to do
anything that we wish in the course of this session if we are convinced that is
the appropriate action to take, and we will do so.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Question Period has ended.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Agrifoods.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WOODFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table today the 2001-2002 Annual Report for the
Department of Forest Resources and Agrifoods.
Mr. Speaker, I am also pleased to table for hon. members, three reports from
agencies reporting to my department, namely: the Livestock Owners Compensation
Board, the Newfoundland and Labrador Crop Insurance Agency, and Newfoundland and
Labrador Farm Products Corporation.
The department's annual report outlines important programs and initiatives
that are key to our overall sound and prudent management and development of our
outdoor resources. It highlights the progress made in our efforts to manage,
grow and diversify our forest and agrifoods industries in a sustainable and
environmentally responsible manner.
Mr. Speaker, sustainability is foremost in our management efforts and we are
proud of our progressive forestry management and overall improved management
techniques. Our agricultural industry is growing and diversifying. Government
and industry continue to work together to enhance our agrifoods sector and
pursue new growth opportunities, especially for our rural communities.
As I table these reports today, Mr. Speaker, I also want to take this
opportunity to say that government remains committed to continue working with
all stakeholders in reaching a common goal; that is to ensure a healthy forest
ecosystem for future generations and prosperous and sustainable forests and
agrifoods industries.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table in the House today the
Department of Industry, Trade and Rural Development's Annual Report for the
fiscal year 2001-2002.
A major goal of the department is to ensure that all parts of the Province,
but particularly rural areas, share in our economic progress. A core part of
achieving this is the implementation of the Renewal Strategy for Jobs and
Growth, which was released in March, 2001, shortly after the creation of the
department. Two-thirds of the priorities for action in the strategy focus
specifically on rural Newfoundland and Labrador, making the strategy a strong
rural agenda.
In addition to presenting the department's annual report, I am tabling
reports of the following external boards, corporations and agencies that report
to the department: Enterprise Newfoundland and Labrador Corporation, Farm
Development Loan Board, Fisheries Loan Board, Newfoundland Ocean Enterprises
Limited, and Newfoundland Hardwoods Limited.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In keeping with our government's commitment for an open and accountable
government, I am pleased today to table the 2001-2002 Annual Report of the Women's
Policy Office, Executive Council.
This document is an account of the activities undertaken by the Women's
Policy Office to address issues impacting women's equality and co-ordinate the
Violence Prevention Initiative. Training, research, policy analysis and public
awareness initiatives are detailed in this report. The annual report outlines
initiatives and programs that promote the advancement of the Status of Women.
Mr. Speaker, the recent government's social audit provides a benchmark for
tracking progress on issues including those related to the Status of Women in
economic, education, health and other sectors. The social audit is a valuable
tool in the work we do.
The provincial government has provided funding of $257,000 to the Provincial
Advisory Council on the Status of Women. The Council is an arm's-length body
fully funded by the provincial government. The Annual Report of the Provincial
Advisory Council of the Status of Women was tabled in the House of Assembly on
December 5, 2002.
Mr. Speaker, the provincial government also provides core funding of $50,000
each for eight regional Status of Women Centres throughout the Province. This
group, along with the Provincial Advisory Council, ensures women have a voice in
decisions that affect them and their communities.
The Women's Policy Office will continue to address issues impacting women's
equality through its programs and services. We will continue to work with women's
organizations that mobilize community action around issues that affect women and
consult with them on research and issues that affect the Status of Women in our
Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
MR. WALSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in accordance with
section 10 of the act, any government
department that decides to purchase a product or a service that is an exemption
to the Public Tender Act under
section 3 and
section 4 must report to the
Minister of Works, Services and Transportation the appropriate exemptions and
reasons. In accordance with the act also, I am to report those to the House of
Assembly. I do that today for the months of November, December, January and
February.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I stand today to move the following private member's resolution:
WHEREAS the residents and visitors to the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador rely and depend heavily on our road system for transportation,
business, health care, tourism and for basic quality of life; and
WHEREAS provincial roads and highways are in a serious state of disrepair in
virtually every region of the Province; and
WHEREAS the condition of the Province's roads and highways are a
significant competitive disadvantage for Newfoundland and Labrador companies
that market products in both Canada and the United States; and
WHEREAS there are over 900 kilometres of dirt roads and some 1,500 kilometres
of twenty-five year-old paved roads in the Province; and
WHEREAS over $300 million is immediately required for provincial roads; and
WHEREAS there is only $23 million budgeted in this year's Budget for
provincial roads which is completely insufficient; and
WHEREAS the Roads for Rail Agreement is coming to an end;
THEREFORE
BE IT RESOLVED that the government negotiate a new cost-sharing
will bring the quality of the Province's roads and highways up to North
American standards and contribute to the Province's overall productivity and
competitiveness.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a petition from the residents of Shea Heights who wish to petition the
hon. House of Assembly to address the need for wheelchair accessible housing
units in the Shea Heights area.
We are asking government to consider the fact that people with disabilities
and their family need to be able to utilize the support of family and friends
within the community of Shea Heights. If persons are forced to live in units
outside the community it compromises the help and support families so vitally
need.
We are asking that serious consideration be given to the construction of
wheelchair accessible units in the Shea Heights area so families with physical
disabilities may avail of essential support networks.
Mr. Speaker, I have presented a number of these petitions in the past. I am
going to continue to present these petitions. Government has recently entered
into an agreement with the federal government for an infusion of cash for the
purposes of constructing wheelchair accessible units, one and two bedroom units,
and they are needed throughout the entire Province. They are needed in the
downtown area. I know of one individual, at present, who is handicapped, a young
girl in her early twenties, who is living in a senior citizens residence. While
she enjoys the company of the senior citizens and the senior citizens enjoy the
company of this young lady, the reality of the fact is that oftentimes senior
citizens and young people in their twenties have different interests - different
interests in music, different interests socially - and sometimes the fact that
they are not compatible can lead to some confusion and animosity. A young person
in their twenties should not have to live in a seniors residence, nor should the
seniors have to deal with the different interests that a young person in their
twenties would bring to that unit.
Mr. Speaker, families in the Shea Heights area - and Shea Heights is a very
unique community in the fact that it is a community unto itself. While it is a
part of the City of St. John's, it is a community unto itself. The families in
the Shea Heights area do not wish to be living in other areas of the city. They
do not wish to be forced to live in other areas of the city just because they
have a disability, and I am sure there are families in other areas of the
Province and, in fact, in other areas of the City of St. John's, who would
rather be close to their own families.
This city needs, and the Province needs, wheelchair accessible units. I am
asking that the Province give serious consideration, Mr. Speaker, to wheelchair
accessible units as requested by the residents of Shea Heights.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition again on behalf of the residents of The
Straits area and the area in particular serviced by the Flower's Cove Health
Care Facility, an area from Castors River to Eddies Cove East. The petition
reads as follows:
To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative
session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and
Labrador;
WHEREAS the Health Care Facility in Flower's Cove is in a dilapidated
condition; and
WHEREAS the building is not completely wheelchair accessible, has very bad
ventilation, poor air quality and is much too small for the services being
provide by the centre; and
WHEREAS the report titled: Facility Assessment and Master Planning, dated
October 2002, recommended that a new modern health care centre replace the
existing centre in Flower's Cove due to the vast amount of deficiencies which
were detailed within this report;
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
and, in particular the Minister of Health and Community Services, to assist in
ensuring that the Flower's Cove Health Care Facility is replaced with a new
modern health care centre, as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, this is another installment, I guess, or followup to the
petition I presented last week on this same issue. As I said before, I raised
this in the Budget Debate last year, in the Budget Debate the year before. It is
obvious to anybody who goes and tours this facility that it is certainly lacking
in quite a number of areas. Although I have not seen this Facility Assessment
and Master Planning report, I am sure that there are quite a number of
deficiencies identified.
As this petition references, this facility, a health care facility in the
Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, in 2003, where government on a daily
basis - I remember last year government insisting that a wheelchair ramp be put
up to the top floor of a fishermen's centre on a wharf in St. Lunaire-Griquet
and today I am here standing up presenting a petition; and so a facility should
be wheelchair accessible. The point is, here we are today with a health care
facility in Flower's Cove that is not wheelchair accessible. The people can
get in through the door of the facility in a wheelchair but they cannot
manoeuver from one end of the facility to the other end of the facility. Today,
in 2003, in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, it is shameful, Mr.
Speaker.
That is just one small example. I mean it is not a small example for anybody
who is in a wheelchair. It is not a small issue by a longshot, but it just
highlights the situation here. The roof is in desperate need of replacing. From
time to time throughout the year -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. TAYLOR: By leave to conclude, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. TAYLOR: The roof on this facility has, from time to time over the
past couple of years, needed extensive repairs to the roof, the eaves and so on.
Just in closing, I would like to impress upon the Minister of Health and
Community Services, and the government, that they really need to look at this
situation here. They need to look at what the report says, and they need to take
the appropriate action in a timely manner.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I stand today to present a petition as well. The petition reads:
To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador, in legislative
session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and
Labrador.
WHEREAS Route 235 from Plate Cove East to the Open Hall intersection has not
been upgraded since it was paved approximately twenty-six years ago; and
WHEREAS this
section of Route 235 is in such a terrible condition that
vehicles are being damaged, including school buses serving schools in the area,
and school children are finding their daily trips over the road very difficult;
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to upgrade and pave the approximately three kilometres of Route 235 from Plate
Cove East to the Open Hall intersection.
And, as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, this petition again is brought forward with the concerns of the
residents who live in the Plate Cove, Open Hall, Red Cliff, Bonavista area. They
are not asking for 300 kilometres of pavement or 100 kilometres of pavement.
What they are asking for is for the government to look after and to accept the
responsibility of maintaining one of the main thoroughfares leading to the
Bonavista Peninsula. Mr. Speaker, they are not asking that Route 235 be lighted,
they are not asking that Route 235 be provided with double lanes or passing
lanes. They are asking that three kilometres of one of the main roads on the
Bonavista Peninsula, which is used every day by seniors, by school buses, by
people accessing health care, be maintained to a level that they can drive over
without damaging their vehicles.
Mr. Speaker, this
section of roadway today, if you drive down there, has a
road sign on it, a road sign put there by the Department of Works, Services and
Transportation, that says: speed limit 30 kilometres an hour. That is twenty
miles an hour on one of the main thoroughfares on the Bonavista Peninsula. I say
to you, Mr. Speaker, that is shameful.
It seems like this government, and the Minister of Works, Services and
Transportation, or the Department of Works, Services and Transportation, must
find it much easier to erect a sign than to go out and do repairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: As you drive over the highway, instead of the minister
and his department being responsible and looking after the condition of the
highway, what do they do? They go out and put up a sign. They put up a sign:
speed limit 30 kilometres an hour. Or else, Mr. Speaker, what they do is go and
put up a sign: road bump.
I suggest, Minister, that I can offer you an alternative to save some money
as well. Instead of putting up a road sign on every bump on the Bonavista
Peninsula, all you have to do is put up one sign on each end saying: road bump
every 100 feet.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: That is approximately what the people there are asking
for.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, the people on the Bonavista Peninsula are
asking this government -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. FITZGERALD: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Does the hon. member have leave?
MR. LUSH: By leave, to finish.
MR. FITZGERALD: Just to finish up.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: No leave?
No leave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair thought I heard several members say no leave. If the hon. member
was the only one, then -
Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
That is probably an indication of the seriousness that some people on the
opposite side take to those petitions as put forward here by the residents of
the Province.
I say through you, Mr. Speaker, that all the residents of the Bonavista
Peninsula are asking for is that this
section of roadway and some of their other
concerns on the Bonavista Peninsula be addressed in this year's Capital Works
Program so that at least they might be provided with a decent road to drive over
that will reflect the year in which they live.
Thank you, very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.
MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I just want to present another petition today from the citizens of Western
Newfoundland concerning a long-term health care facility, a subject which I
thought we had adequately dealt with in the Budget Speech but it would seem, Mr.
Speaker, that it still remains to be a very current issue.
I just want to reiterate the concerns of the people of Western Newfoundland
for a long-term health care facility and to try and bring some semblance of
order to some of the statements that we have been hearing in the last couple of
days respecting how it is going to be built and the cost that is going to be
associated with that.
Mr. Speaker, in a meeting with the long-term health care committee in Corner
Brook last Thursday night, the estimate was put forward that this building would
cost somewhere in the order of $50 million to $70 million. Now, the hon. the
Leader of the Opposition claims that the cost that he has, and I quote: the
estimates from the Western Health Care Corporation told me that their estimates
show it could cost government between $50 million and $55 million, as opposed to
the $50 million to $70 million range which we had put forward. It goes on
further to say that is obviously another $15 million to $20 million to be spent
on our Liberal buddies in the building of this building. Statements, of course,
Mr. Speaker, which I find to be repulsive because -
MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
On a point of order, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, if the minister wants to respond to the Leader
of the Opposition's questions in Question Period he may do so, but he is
presenting a petition and, if I look at the prayer of the petition, I do not
think the prayer of the petition, and the people who have signed it, have
anything to do with the comments by the Leader of the Opposition. What does the
prayer of the petition say?
Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, I do not know what the minister is quoting from,
but, seeing that he has quoted it, whether it is from Hansard or something else,
maybe he will take the time to table the whole document, which he must do
anyway, seeing that he has quoted from it and he is a minister of the Crown.
My advice, Mr. Speaker, and I am asking you to rule on it, is that the
minister, in presenting a petition, stick to the prayer of the petition and not
use it as an opportunity to impute motives on another member or to start or
charge debate on an entirely different topic.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
To the point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I am glad the Opposition House Leader raised that
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. LUSH: That may be so.
I am glad the Opposition House Leader raised that particular question because
it is a point that has concerned me somewhat with petitions. All hon. members
know, Mr. Speaker, that in presenting a petition on either side of the House
that a member is restricted primarily to the prayer of the petition and the
allegations made in that petition.
I heard the hon. the Opposition House Leader say that the person speaking to
the petition must speak to the prayer of the petition and, Mr. Speaker, if that
is to be enforced I will be a happy member on this side of the House, too,
because I have sat and listened to petitions time and time again and it is one
of the most contentious issues in this House, how hon. members will use it as a
point of debate. The petition is not to be debated. Primarily we speak to the
numbers signed to the petition, the material allegations in the petition, but
primarily the prayer of the petition.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair is ready to rule on this point of order.
Obviously, what both the Opposition House Leader and the Government House
Leader have said is accurate: that when members are presenting the petition to
the House they must confine their comments to the prayer of the petition, and I
ask hon. members to do that.
The hon. member's time is up.
Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Certainly I have a petition and a prayer to a petition that I certainly would
like to stick to. It is a petition, Mr. Speaker, from the residents of
Georgetown and surrounding areas in this Province, and it concerns the roads in
the community of Georgetown that have deteriorated to a point that the safety of
motorists and pedestrians is being compromised; and
WHEREAS access to residences, businesses, churches, postal facilities and
recreation areas have been seriously affected; and
WHEREAS little, if any, maintenance and repairs are carried out on an annual
basis;
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to make a commitment to include the upgrading of this road system in its annual
capital disbursement for the upcoming fiscal year.
And as is duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
This is signed by a number of residents, Mr. Speaker, from the Georgetown
area and the surrounding areas. In particular, in staying with the intent of the
petition, it is to point out to all assembled that this particular road is in a
deplorable state. It is in a deplorable state. It is a paved road. Some sections
are not paved. The last
section of the road is not paved, and the pavement, I
would say, does not come up to the standard of even a good gravel road. The
residents are certainly trying to maneuver around the numerous potholes, trying
to maneuver around the pavement that has deteriorated to a point that it is not
fit to drive over. Many have expressed to me that perhaps the best thing to do
is to bulldoze the road as it is now, and at least it would be a good gravel
road.
The reason for this deplorable state has been the lack of maintenance, and I
guess the term that is used is deferred maintenance. This is not a new road.
This is an established road that has been there for certainly thirty-odd years,
but the maintenance on that particular road has not been of a standard to keep
that road to where it should be. More importantly, it was brought to my
attention from a business person in that particular area, as a matter of fact,
who runs a salon there for hair care. What this lady finds is that she is losing
business, and losing business, Mr. Speaker, because her customers who have been
going back and forth there for years are finding that in the wintertime, in the
springtime, in the summertime, any time of year, the road is just almost, if
not, impassable.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HEDDERSON: By leave, just to clue up.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, in cluing up, this is a business that is located on a local road - it
is at the end of the road, as a matter of fact. It is the livelihood of this
individual. Because of this, of course, it is absolutely necessary that the
infrastructure of their community - namely, the road system - support this small
business. I cannot say enough of how important it is for small business in a
rural community, how important it is that this be done.
It is a simple petition in asking that the money be there to do what should
be done. This maintenance should be done. Hopefully, the message will get across
to the minister and the minister will act in making it a priority in taking care
of the maintenance of this particular road so that the motoring public can have
a safe passage and that their vehicles will not be destroyed in their journey.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, before the Minister of Environment leaves the
Legislature, I wonder -
AN HON. MEMBER: You are not supposed to say that now.
MR. E. BYRNE: Pardon me?
AN HON. MEMBER: You are not supposed to say that.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I guess at some point, I say to members
opposite, we are all going to leave today. I did not refer to any specific time
when he was leaving, but if you want to, that is up to you, Minister.
Mr. Speaker, the question is that before the minister - for whatever reason,
he may have legitimate reasons to go, and I am sure he does. He is a Minster of
the Crown and obviously an extremely busy person. Before he goes, I wonder would
he be able to table the documents that are referred to. He must table them. We
have asked for them. I wonder if he can table those before he leaves.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.
MR. MERCER: With pleasure, it is a copy of Hansard. If you would like to
have a copy of that, you are more than welcome to have it.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have petition on roads as well. As we know, there are many concerns about
the roads all across this Province. The prayer reads:
To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative
session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and
Labrador;
WHEREAS the District of St. Barbe is in desperate need of road improvements;
and
WHEREAS the District of St. Barbe supports large volumes of traffic
especially during the tourist season; and
WHEREAS many roads in the District of St. Barbe have deteriorated to the
point that they are a safety risk;
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to invest in the necessary restoration and improvements so that persons using
the roads in the District of St. Barbe may do so without compromising their
safety, as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, since I have been in this House I have presented many petitions
on the roads because of the road conditions. There has not been any significant
upgrading or improvements to the serious conditions that we have there. One of
the things I always speak about when I speak about the roads is Sally's Cove.
The enclave of Sally's Cove is there and it is in a terrible condition. The
terrible condition it was in, it appears to be much worse now.
When Parks Canada went out there and paved both sides of the enclave, you
have a new stretch of pavement. When it comes to an end, it comes without much
of a warning. So anybody who is coming down there is certainly not aware and
find themselves at a risk factor there. Even myself, as often as I have
travelled the highway, there are times that you may be thinking or drifting off
a little bit and as you go off that new pavement onto this deplorable road
condition it certainly brings you back to the reality that the roads on the
Great Northern Peninsula are not in that great a shape.
One of the other reasons I would like to bring up Sally's Cove is the very
fact that we have invested so much into tourism. Tourism on the Northern
Peninsula, especially after the cod moratorium, became an alternate source of
employment for the people there. We have a great cluster of attractions that are
known worldwide and have certainly attracted people, but as we have invested in
those opportunities and a move down, both by government and by the private
sector, as we moved down that road opportunities are arising because of
different changes. Such as the port of St. Barbe being the main link now with
Labrador and the tourism potential that would come in from the north as well. We
are expecting that tourism opportunity to expand considerably in the near
future, but the road conditions are going to be the bottleneck. I think it is
what will keep people from really coming and enjoying what we have to offer.
That great opportunity, as great as it was, will be only stopped and slowed and
deterred from growing as it should, because of the road conditions. I think that
it is very shortsighted for us to go out there -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. YOUNG: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. YOUNG: Just to clue up.
What I just wanted to say was that opportunity - although the idea, and all
the bases were practically there. I think 80 per cent of that plan was very
sound but to have such a main component, such as the road, to stop that
investment is shameful.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, would like to present a petition here in the House today. The prayer
of the petition reads as follows:
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of the Province
of Newfoundland and Labrador ask for the House of Assembly to accept the
following prayer:
We, the undersigned citizens of St. Mary's Bay Center area, hereby draw
your attention to the unsatisfactory and unsafe conditions as they now exist on
Route 90 St. Mary's Bay; and
WHEREAS it is the duty of government through the enactment and enforcement of
the Highways Safety Act to protect its citizens, not only from commuters but
also from unsafe highways; and
WHEREAS the safety of the travelling public must be the number one priority
of any government;
THEREFORE your petitioners ask that government provide the necessary funding
to carry out the much needed repairs to Route 90, as in duty bound your
petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, once again, I have been asked by the people in the St. Mary's
Bay region to raise the concerns, and certainly the issue, of the poor road
conditions in that area and they are doing so through this petition here today.
People who signed this petition are from St. Joseph's, Riverhead, Gaskiers,
St. Mary's, St. Vincent's, Peters River, St. Stephens and many other
communities along that area.
What I find interesting here is the lady who signed the petition and whose
address now is in St. John's but in brackets behind she puts Riverhead. It
brings to another issue that I have not raised previously when I raised these
petitions in the House, and that is the many, many people who travel back and
forth, who have families in the St. Mary's Bay area, who live in St. John's,
Mount Pearl, Paradise area because of work commitments, who travel back and
forth to see their parents, travel back and forth over the roads to see their
families. Many of these people have homesteads still in those communities but
live here in St. John's, and are very concerned about the road conditions
also.
Mr. Speaker, it is an issue that was certainly brought to my attention and I
bring it to the attention of the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation
here today, through this petition, and hopefully he can find some dollars within
his budget to address some of the concerns that the people have in this area. As
the petition states, while there are many reasons people raise the issue of the
road with me, and do so through this petition, the number one priority, and
certainly the number one reason for this petition coming forward to this House
is because of safety. The safety of the travelling public, whether it is an
emergency vehicle, such as ambulance or a fire truck, or you have people in
their own vehicles who are travelling back and forth and swerving from potholes
in the road. That certainly is a danger to everybody who is on the highway.
Mr. Speaker, there certainly is a major issue here with the road, and while
we realize that there are not enough dollars to address all the concerns that
people have, and certainly raised here -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker. Just a moment to finish up.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
MR. MANNING: The major issue that people have here is the safety issue
and hopefully - even though, as I said, there are not enough dollars to address
all of the concerns that people have. Several petitions that have been raised
here today, through different members and different road conditions in different
parts of the Province, we would certainly hope that the minister will find in
his funding to address some of the concerns that have been raised through this
petition here in the House.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Motion1, Mr. Speaker, the adjourned debate of the motion that
the House approves in general the budgetary policy of the government. The debate
was adjourned, again, by the Member for Ferryland.
MR. SPEAKER: Motion 1.
The hon. the Member for Ferryland.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I will get an opportunity today to address some of the other particular
concerns in this Budget that I did not get to do in my previous comments.
Yesterday, when I was debating parts of this Budget and putting forth certain
opinions, and counter-opinions actually, for what government has put forth in
their Budget. Basically, I can honestly say that I cannot support Motion 1, that
this House approves in general the budgetary policy of the government; because
the budgetary policy of this government is not one to get very excited about, I
tell you, Mr. Speaker.
I am going to deal with that a little more a little later. I want to address
that situation from a fiscal perspective, but I want to just continue going
through this book. The last day I got as far as page twenty out of the
thirty-nine pages. A very lengthy Budget Speech that tried to camouflage - the
longer a Budget Speech is the worse it is because they are trying to spend so
much time putting nice showy statements - put out things to the public that are
not true and try to hoodwink the public into believing something.
I do not, for a moment, think that the budgetary policy is one that anybody
would want to follow. In fact, the budgetary policy this government is following
is one that is on a road to disaster. It is a policy that is budgeting and
mortgaging the future of our children here in our Province. It is passing the
debt on to those who follow. Any responsible government would stand up and deal
with the issues at hand, deal with the present as well as prepare for the
future. We are leveraging the future of our children. Any economist out there -
and there are numerous analysis, and I will refer to some of them a little
later. Analysis would show that the path we are on is not the path to success.
It is not the one where we are going to achieve. In fact, this Premier states
that, on a cash basis, our deficit of $213 million - when you combine the
deficit for borrowing for capital construction, $286 million, about $300 million
- he said: If we reduce it by $75 million a year, we will get there. In other
words, $75 million over the first year, the next fiscal year, and the next year
$75 million more. That is $150 million further we are down. Another $75 million
the next year puts us $225 million down. In year four, he is telling us, the
deficit will be zero on a cash basis. That is, Mr. Speaker, $300 million less in
four years. So, in four years time, from what it is at the end of this fiscal
year, it will be $300 million less.
He has not put forth any projections or plans to show us how he is going to
achieve this for this government. It is only fair to say, Mr. Speaker, in the
absence of any plan, to show us how we are going to achieve a balanced budget on
a cash basis in four years time, I remain skeptical. Where are the four-year
projections on expenditures, where are the four-year projections on revenues, to
do it? They haven't done it, they have just paid lip service, talked about
something that they have no plan to accomplish. That is a pretty cheap form of
politics. It does nothing to inspire confidence in the people of the Province,
many people out there who understand the fiscal situation of our Province. There
are economists and there are people in the banking business and others who can
look at this and tell you the real picture out there.
Many people, today, their main concern is a job, an education, health care,
but we have to have a fiscal situation that enables us to be able to provide
those benefits. We need to have a healthy fiscal position so we can have more
dollars for health care. With 15 per cent going towards the interest on the
debt, if we had a smaller debt it wouldn't be 15 per cent, basically, of our
expenditures. It could be 12 per cent or 11 per cent or 10 per cent. It is
approaching 15 per cent. That is money, $500 or $600 million, on interest on
debt, that could be used to trim down our debt and to enhance and improve
educational and other social programs, health care, et cetera.
In reference to the Budget here, I just want to run through a few of these
things. Youth Opportunities, Newfoundland and Labrador. It says, this program
"...will provide incentives for employers to hire cooperative work term
students and new post secondary graduates." It says, it "...will make
it easier for new graduates to find meaningful employment and pay off their
student loans by working right here in Newfoundland and Labrador." Well, it
is important, Mr. Speaker, that in order to be able to accomplish this we must
have the workforce to be able to accommodate those particular people. There is
no sense in providing incentives to hire people when they cannot pick up the
rest of the cost. That is like telling rural Newfoundland municipalities - and
my colleagues here for rural Newfoundland know what it is all about. That is
like saying, we will cost share 50-50 or 70-30 with some municipalities on water
and sewer and other infrastructure. There are communities in Newfoundland and
Labrador today that cannot afford to pay one penny, not a cent, for
infrastructure in their communities. Some cannot afford to pay any, so what is
the point of having a program available if you cannot avail of it?
What we have to do is, we have to try to stimulate, grow the workforce, grow
the participation rate, increase the benefits of the economy so people going out
will have jobs. There will be cushions there to be able to absorb the new
students coming out, the co-operative students, the people to get that work
experience. One of the biggest things that people tell you when they are looking
to hire people: Well, they do not have experience. They do not have work
experience. How do you get work experience if you do not get work? So, hiring
co-op students, yes, it is positive to give incentives to do that because some
companies just may hire some if they are given incentives to do it. Other
companies may not have the ability to be able to do it. Fiscally, they cannot
afford it.
The minister went on then to talk about Newfoundland and Labrador Student
Loan Tax Credit. It went on to say that, "...eligible residents of the
Province who are repaying their student loan will be able to reduce their
Provincial personal income tax by an amount of up to 20 per cent of the
principal payment on the Provincial portion of the loan".
So, if a young Newfoundlander and Labradorian were paying back their student
loan in this fiscal year, they would pay back $1,000 on the principal, they
would get 20 per cent of that, up to $200 credit on their income tax toward
basically that, on the principal portion that they pay. That is not obviously on
the interest portion. The biggest cost with paying back anything, if you look at
a mortgage, a house mortgage, looking at a student loan, if you are paying it
off over a long period of time, you will find that interest is a huge part of
that cost. The interest clock starts ticking, I think, six months after you
finish your schooling. Then the interest cost starts ticking and that is bogging
people down, too, with high payments.
Many people want to be able to alleviate that burden of their student loan.
They want to be able to get that down to a manageable level. Many find they
cannot do it here in the Province. Many find they cannot do it here because the
jobs are seasonal. They do not get steady work. People in education feel they
have to depend on substituting, and hopefully they will get a replacement
position that might get them 40 per cent, 50 per cent of a year's work. Many
people are getting positions out there now that are half-time, a half unit over
a course of five days, scattered all over the day. Some get a half each day.
Some get the first two-and-a-half days of the week, and the next two-and-a-half
they can seek substitute positions elsewhere. That is a burden. Unless someone
is the position or they have another income in their household, or a spouse or
whatever bringing in an income, people cannot survive on half a salary. What are
they going to do? They are going to look for employment elsewhere and out of
this Province.
I will make reference a little later to a pre-Budget consultation in the
session that the Capital Coast Development Alliance put forth some very
interesting statistics on our Province, and I will relate that in due course
when I get an opportunity to look at that hopefully this afternoon.
It went on to say, too, "This $3 million measure complements the
existing tax credit of 10 percent for the interest portion of the payment."
If the interest portion of the payment was another $1,000, for example, that is
10 per cent of that. Overall, basically, if they were equal, both principal and
interest, you would be looking at basically 15 per cent. It is still a huge
debt, but anything to alleviate a burden is positive, I might add. Anything to
alleviate debt for young people is positive.
Our Plan for a Healthier Future, the minister talks about. We have a plan for
a healthier future. Federal Response to the Kirby and Romanow Reports. We are
quite familiar with the concerns on health care and where it plans to take us in
the future. The reports were brought down. There seems to be a lot of confusion
coming from government exactly on where they sit on that. Romanow talked about
public health care, public controlled health care. The Premier talked yesterday
about private. He said privately built and privately operated long-term care. He
has also indicated that then succession rights would go from workers there from
union rights to this new facility if it is built independently and privately, he
talked about. He has conceded the point that it would be public money going into
a privately run system. Obviously, it is public money. The Premier can get up
and mince words and say, well, it is publicly funded. Sure, it is publicly
funded. It is publicly funded if we contribute to it from the public purse. That
is what we do, publicly fund it. It is not like going out and building a
facility, whether it is in Calgary, and saying we are going to do surgeries
here. You come in and pay the full shot and you get it done. That is privately
paid for.
MR. J. BYRNE: What about profits?
MR. SULLIVAN: That is right. The Member for Cape St. Francis said, what
about profits? I can tell you, we have seen in this country over the past
several years an increasing amount of money going to private funding of health
care. It is now over 30 per cent. Almost one-third of the dollars in this
country in health care are privately funded. By privately funded we mean that
you are paying it through your insurance plans, through funding that comes from
other sources outside the government purse. There are numerous third-party
billings and other costs being picked up, insurance companies and so on, whether
from automobile insurance or whatever the case may be. It is up to almost
one-third of that now funded privately.
The Premier tries to mince words and say it is publicly funded, it is going
to be publicly funded. Of course, if the money is provided to a private
contractor to build, to operate, from the public purse, do you call that
publicly funded? Yes, it is publicly funded, but is it publicly built, publicly
run, publicly administered, publicly operated? In some cases, no. The minister,
or the Premier of the Province, tried to mince some words today. He tried to
play on words. The Premier has been pretty good at playing on words and picking
out what he wants. That is the same Premier -
MR. NOEL : He is good at everything.
MR. SULLIVAN: Yes. The Minister of Mines and Energy said he is good at
everything. He is good at getting into trouble. He is good at flip-flopping. He
is good at many things, I might add.
MR. LUSH: And you are not good at any of those.
MR. SULLIVAN: Now the Government House Leader, too, wants to interrupt
and ask a question. I tell him, it is not Question Period. I am talking about
the Premier. It is not Question Period. If the Government House Leader wants to
ask us questions, let us get over there, and they get over here, and then we
will try to answer all their questions. To the best of our knowledge and
ability, Mr. Speaker, we will answer them.
Why I shouldn't I be able to speak about what the Premier does? The Premier
was speaking today on an issue very much related - very much related - to the
Budget. The page that I am referring to, page 21, we are talking about health
care, the Romanow and Kirby Reports. I will not go into the details of them. I
have gone through the generalities of all of these, and I took a look at them
and followed them fairly closely on the health care issue, being the health care
critic for a number of years. Also, having worked in the system on an employee
basis and on a volunteer basis on boards, and as chair of a particular project,
I have an interest and followed it relatively closely. I am far from being an
expert on the issue, I might add, Mr. Speaker. I do not profess to be, and I
never have, but I do consult with people that I consider to be experts in the
system. Whether it be in administration, whether it be doctors or nurses or
people running establishments or associations or groups, we try to get the best
information and draw the best conclusion from that information.
It is kind of difficult to do that in the light of one day there is something
said by the Premier and the next day he says something different, gives a
different impression and so on. The Member for Humber East, the minister, gets
up and says something else. Then we hear, on another report from government, the
parliamentary secretary to the Premier gets up on another issue, fisheries, and
says something different from the Premier and the Minister of Fisheries. How do
you know what is going on? They are all on a different page. They are all on a
different page, I would say, in the song book. That is why they are all off key
and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador do not know what tune they are
singing.
MR. NOEL: Do you want us to take over Newfoundland Power?
MR. SULLIVAN: Now, the Minister of Mines and Energy is talking about
Newfoundland Power. He was asked a question today in this House, what would he
do, yes or no, and he beat around the bush. He skated miles around the issue and
would not answer. Oh, we will wait and get a report and we will do this and we
will do that.
They are always going to do something tomorrow, never going to do something
today. The next election we are going to do something. We are going to do this
after the next election. We are not going to do it before. We are going to tell
you we are going to do this. A promise made is a promise unkept.
MR. E. BYRNE: It certainly worked in CBS. (Inaudible) record of
achievement.
MR. SULLIVAN: Without their record of achievement in CBS - my colleague
here, who is right behind me in CBS, with 83 per cent of the votes - something
like a five to one margin, showed what a record of achievement can do. That was
what they placed their cards on. Trust us. Vote for this man here, or vote for
his opponent on a record of achievement.
They had a fine young man, maybe not so young but a fine gentleman, running
against him, a guy who has been involved in volunteer work, a guy who is the
principal of a school, a reputable individual and a fine individual, and still
what would they have done if they did not have somebody of that calibre running
against him? That tells you a record of achievement. I pity the person who had
to bear that mantle in that by-election. I pity the person who had to bear that
mantle in that by-election, because it was a campaign on a record of
achievement. That is what it was. It was pretty difficult for somebody to
campaign under that circumstance, trying to defend a record that was not
defensible. That was a difficult thing to do. The results showed that, and
reflected not only the record, of course, a vote against this government, but it
also reflected the record and a vote for the member representing the area, the
member who now sits in the House, the Member for Conception Bay South, who is
tuned into the issues there, who knows the district, who has worked in that
capacity, who is familiar with it. They are all factors. That is why there are
people knocking on the door, candidates who want to offer themselves for our
party - young people, energetic people. Hundreds and thousands of people at
nomination meetings, over 2,100 at one, and 1,500. Every time there is one held,
you would see the people coming out in unheard of numbers at nomination meeting
after nomination meeting -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: - because they endorse this party and what we stand for and
they have lost confidence in the governing party of this Province. That is why
they are coming out. That is why we are seeing it happen. Right in the member's
own district we are seeing huge numbers out there, right in the member's
backyard.
MR. NOEL: We had a nominating meeting in (inaudible).
MR. SULLIVAN: When did you have a nominating meeting?
MR. NOEL: Nobody wants to challenge me.
MR. SULLIVAN: Nobody wants to challenge him. He is so far ahead, no one
was going to take him on. Well, when the writ is dropped there will be somebody
challenge him, I will tell him. He will be challenged when the writ is dropped.
Somebody will take him on then. Then people will have an opportunity, when the
writ is dropped some time. Who knows when. He told us, first when the Premier
got elected, well, we are not going to call one right away. We will see what
happens. Then, as it got later, well, it will be 2003. Then it got close to that
and they said, well, we do not have to call it before 2004; it could be the fall
of 2003. As we got on closer he said, well, we do not have to call it until the
winter 2004. He kept pushing it back and back and back. I am not so sure now, to
be honest with you - it is his prerogative. It should not be. It should not be
at the whim of one person to control the political determination of this
Province. That is not a definition of democracy.
MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) five years, and after the election it is going
to be four years.
MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, that is right: I believe in four year terms, but only
after I am elected again for another term. I believe in smaller Cabinets, but
only after I am elected again, when I do not have to keep all of my members
happy back here.
There is no one else left to put in. With all the ones that went out, there
are only three more left besides all of the Cabinet ministers there. Besides the
departed Cabinet ministers, there are only three other people left there to go
in Cabinet. One happens to a Parliamentary Secretary to the Premier, one happens
to be Deputy Speaker, and one other who is whip and serving on committees. I
know their work must be getting spread pretty thin because it is a lot of work,
all of these committees, and working there. Some are on two and three
committees. It is a lot of work but there are not many back there to do it
because there are so many out front. They have to spread it all out to those and
make all these other six of seven do all the work. That is what happens, all of
the work and none of the glory, none of the compensation that comes with it, but
do all the work. That is basically what happened there.
The Premier does not believe in four year terms. How can you believe in four
year terms when you do not practice it? How can you believe in smaller Cabinets
when you do not practice it? How can you believe in those things? So now you
want a five or six year term, I suppose, or you want a seven year term. Like the
Senate of Canada, you might want a lifetime term, almost, until you are
seventy-five. That is what he wants. He wants to get elected for life. That is
what he wants to do. There are regimes around that want that to happen. One is
Iraq. That is one regime that would like that for life, and there are people
rising up and want freedom. They want an opportunity to have a voice and a say
in their future. There are people all over the world who have been suppressed
for years, for decades and generations, and they want to see freedom. Here we
have a government who wants to increase the agony, prolong the agony they are
inflicting on people in this Province. That is what they are doing. They have
had an opportunity -
MR. LUSH: What you are doing now.
MR. SULLIVAN: The Government House Leader is trying to interfere with the
process of democracy here - so I can enlighten, Mr. Speaker, the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador with the real truth that is here in this Budget, not
what we heard on Budget day when the Budget was brought down by the Minister of
Finance.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Not what we heard on March 27, on a somber Thursday
afternoon here in the capital city of this Province about one story, and we find
the other story.
I do not see any reference, to this day, on what they predict the real
deficit on an accrual basis is for the fiscal year just ended. They told us what
it is going to look like for next year, the $666 million they said. What is it
for the year just ended? Well, it could be significant. Why did the Comptroller
General and the Auditor General last year, in September - the Comptroller
General within the department -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SULLIVAN: No, it is not. The Comptroller General and the Auditor
General sign off on the Public Accounts of this Province in September, and the
work was all done, but the people in the Province and the Legislature did not
get access to that until later. Two months later, within two months later. Now
the Minister of Education rushes in -
MR. REID: Listen for a minute. (Inaudible) called the Marshall plan and
not the Sullivan plan. You have been the critic now for three or four years. How
come they will not called it the Sullivan plan instead of - they got the
Marshall plan (inaudible).
MR. SULLIVAN: Now that Minister of Education is here, I am going to ask
him a question. I am going to ask the minister a question. Why hasn't
government monitored school construction? Why could there be millions? He said
we might have to take it all down almost. Out in Twillingate district, why
wouldn't you monitor it? Why are we going to have to spend hundreds of
thousands, maybe millions or whatever, a significant amount, when people up in a
Mobile system made $1.5 million to build new schools that are badly needed, and
they are not safe to be in?
MR. REID: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER (Butler): Order, please!
On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Education.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
He asked me a question and I would assume that he wants an answer even though
he is not part of the Marshall plan. I am rather disappointed that they did not
call it the Sullivan plan, why they are calling it the Marshall plan. If I were
you, I would feel somewhat insulted about that, the Member for Ferryland.
To answer his question about monitoring the situation, it was monitored, Mr.
Speaker. That is the reason why there looks to be a litigation pending.
Obviously, I cannot go into details right now because it is going be before the
courts. We do not know how much it is going to cost yet but we know that we are
going to remediate the situation so that before the children on New World Island
go into that school, we are going to be assured and they will be assured that
school will be safe for them.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
The hon. the Member for Ferryland.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Based on their past court record, based on their past court performance of
this government, God help us in the courts of this Province. Trans City years
later, Tors Cove Excavating, Cabot 500 Corporation, Atlantic Leasing, millions
and millions of dollars cost to this Province. Look at Trans City. I even kept
it here for a reference on Trans City. I had a breakdown. I have it here
somewhere, but I know the figures anyway. I will tell you what it cost the
taxpayers of this Province on Trans City, besides the millions awarded in court
cost damages. Basically, what has happened, it cost the taxpayers - we are still
paying - a price tag when you look at the lease repayment, over $19 million
extra on top of the awarded settlement in the courts. We are paying extra on
behalf of the taxpayers of our Province because government ignored the Public
Tender Act. They gave it to a higher bidder, not a lower bidder. They gave it to
their friends; not the lowest bidder. If their friends happened to be the lowest
bidder, I would say, give it to them. Do not give it to them if they are the
highest bidder. That is political patronage to nth degree and the courts
rendered judgement on that. They took it to every level of the courts. The
Supreme Court passed its judgement and this government was found guilty.
Now, the minister over there tells us they are going to court again. That
frightens me. They are going to court again. They spent - what is it? A $7
million structure, not even built, not even into it, and there is mould there
because they did not follow the proper procedure. And who is on the hook? The
taxpayers of Newfoundland and Labrador.
There is a school up in Bay Bulls in a state of disrepair; mould, and people
are sick. They find when they go to school they get sick because of the
environment. They cannot get $1.5 million to supplement the $4.5 million when
they had overruns of hundreds of thousands on other schools here they completed
- and they will not give that to the children from Tors Cove, Burnt Cove,
Bauline area, down to Bay Bulls in the schools. These are some of the
fundamental things that are happening; but we can waste it, be inefficient in
our management, not monitor it properly, whatever the case may be. They can find
it for things they want. They can find it for political appointments, and there
is a list of them here, hundreds of them.
We can take other cases, the cottage hospitals contracts. As I said, there
are millions there. Atlantic Leasing, Cabot 500, the Utilities Board with the
Andy Wells case, Tors Cove Excavating, and there are numerous others here. I
will not even get into a lot of these. I am familiar with these cases, we
followed them. We sat here and watched the gouging and spending unwisely of the
taxpayers' dollars. Now they have the nerve to tell people: Elect us for
another four or five years so we can keep on doing it to you.
They do not want to have an election, I can tell you, because people are sick
and tired of giving bids to higher bidders, costing taxpayers money, children
having to leave this Province to look for work, mortgage their children's
future for those who stay, the highest per capita cost debt here in this
country, and now they are telling us everything is honky-dory and things are
going great. Well, that is an utter fabrication. That is what it is, and the
people of the Province are too smart to believe that, Mr. Speaker. They are too
smart to believe that utter nonsense.
I will tell the Minister of Education, they are going to find out. He asked
about the Marshall plan. The Member for Topsail will find out about that, I will
tell you, when they call the writ. That is who will find out about it. They will
find out about it in spades. They cannot stand to see their members go down to
defeat. People coming to our camp, one after the other, prominent individuals,
successful people, out over the Province here. Thousands and thousands out in
nominating meetings there. They cannot take it. It is killing them every time.
They just cannot wait for an nomination to get over so they will not have to
hear this everyday; but we will prolong it as long as we can to make you aware
that when you stop representing the people, when you ignore the people of the
Province that is when you will find out what the result will be.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SULLIVAN: I say to the member there, you are supposed to refer to
people by their district. You were told earlier today, not by your name and not
other remarks. He is trying to get personal over there now. He is trying to get
personal across this House but I can tell you, I am not going to get personal,
Mr. Speaker, I am going to stick to the facts. I am going to relate the facts of
the Province and if they do not like it, they have to put up with it. That is
their problem. That is what I am going to do.
Now, we talk about health care. He wants to talk about Fogo Island. He wants
to talk about the hospital he flip-flopped on. They flipped and flipped and
flip-flopped all over the place. He is like a flounder -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SULLIVAN: He is like a flounder flopping its tail on the head of a
wharf. That's what he is like!
MR. REID: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Education, on a point of order.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me talk to you about flip-flops on the Fogo Island hospital. When the
Leader - the hon. Member for Ferryland, his own leader went out there last fall,
Mr. Speaker, visited three councils and told them three different stories. Then
the last one he had the gall to say, he went down to the Town of Tilting, walked
in and met with the council in Tilting and told them that a Liberal government
would never build a hospital on Fogo Island. Well, Mr. Speaker, I tell you one
thing right now, the steel is on its way to Fogo Island and the hospital will be
built.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member of Ferryland.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can tell the member, he went down in one part of Fogo Island and told the
people one thing and he told them something different in Fogo. He even had a
letter, I think, if I remember, even had a letter. That is like the person who
ran in Ferryland District, Mr. Speaker, when he spoke to them in the Goulds at a
gathering he said: my father was a farmer. Then when he went to Ferryland he
said: my father was a fisherman. That is what he told them.
MR. REID: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Education, on a point of order.
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman opposite would tell the
truth I would not have to stand on a point of order for three occasions here
this afternoon.
He talks about the flips that I did on Fogo Island. I went to every town on
Fogo Island during the last election. I told every town where I stood on that
hospital, including the Town of Fogo. That is something I can say that that
crowd opposite never had the guts to do.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, on a point of order.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There are some things that we can say in this Legislature, Mr. Speaker, and
there are some things we cannot say. The Minister of Education said last week
that he was one of the only people in the Legislature that takes the time to sit
down and listen intently to people, without interrupting he said.
Two things, Mr. Speaker. One, it has been ruled in this House by the Speaker
of this House - I think it was even just last year - that referring to someone
and saying that you do not have the guts to say something is not appropriate and
unparliamentary. So I will ask the minister to withdraw.
Secondly, Mr. Speaker, you cannot stand on your feet and impute motives to
members opposite, which the member already did, because essentially, he called
the Member for Ferryland a liar. He cannot do that, and I am asking him to
withdraw those two statements.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MR. REID: Here is what I will say instead, Mr. Speaker, I will say he was
misleading the House and he did not have the intestinal fortitude.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, on a point of order.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the minister may say what he wants to say but
his words on the record are very clear.
One, he has imputed motives to the Member for Ferryland and basically called
him a liar, which he cannot do. I ask him to withdraw unequivocally and
unconditionally.
Secondly, it has been ruled in this House that saying to a member of this
House that you do not have the guts to do something or say something is
unparliamentary and he must withdraw that unconditionally. No qualification.
Stand up and withdraw those statements.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair will take this under advisement and report back to
the House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Ferryland.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There is something about the portfolio of Fisheries and Aquaculture that
creates a flip-flop. We had the minister up today, the current minister, and she
was like a flounder flapping its tail on a wharf fighting for its last bit of
life. She flip-flopped there. Is it contagious that you have to flip-flop if you
are a Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture in this Province? Because that
minister, in the last election, flip-flopped so often on Fogo Island on where
the hospital should be, he did not know what he said in the final analysis. That
is basically what he said. That is basically what they did.
Mr. Speaker, the people of Fogo Island need access to health care the same as
anyone else in the Province. They are just as entitled to it as anywhere else.
When it gets to election time we hear all this utter nonsense. I have not made a
statement in an election yet, since I have been in here, to get me elected. I
have not made a statement to get me elected that I did not believe in or I did
not say I would not stand on.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: He might indicate -
MR. REID: (Inaudible) tried to buy their votes.
MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, he is trying to get personal. He is trying to
get personal down there but I am not going to go there. He might insinuate I am
a liar, but I can tell you I have never told a lie to anyone to vote for me or
elect me and I hope I never do, to be honest with you. I hope I never do.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Some people get offended by the truth. They get offended by
it and they take great offence to it because they do not like the truth. I tell
you, if something is the truth and I tell it to my constituents - you can call
any of them and ask them. Open up the phone book. Call anyone in the district
and ask them. I tell them the truth. I tell them upfront. If it is bad news, I
tell them. If it is good news, I will tell them, and I tell them fairly.
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, on a point of order.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education continues with the
unparliamentary behaviour. I know every member in this House heard it because
everyone here heard it. He has done two things -
MS J.M. AYLWARD: It is not your decision to make.
MR. E. BYRNE: No, but it is my decision to bring it to the attention of
the Speaker, I say to the Minister of Finance, thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, he has made a personal charge against the
Member for Ferryland singing out that he tried to buy people's votes and at
the same time impute people's motives. I say to the Minister of Education: if
you cannot participate in a mature and responsible way in debate, go out in your
own caucus room and have a coffee, and let the rest of us do so.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, to the point of order.
I think the hon. Opposition House Leader is getting a little too touchy, a
little bit holier than thou. In the sallying back and forth of debate many
members make some comments, but the Opposition House Leader - I have noticed him
in the past - seems to have bionic ears and seems to be listening for comments
so that he can get up and try and delay the proceedings of the House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. LUSH: I am making a point here, and I ask hon. leaders opposite to
hear me out.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, to make the suggestions that the hon. Opposition
House Leader made - these remarks made in the heat of debate are very often just
dismissed and not brought to the attention of Mr. Chair. I would say that the
Opposition House Leader is becoming a little bit nitpicky and a little bit
holier than thou.
MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I listened and it was the fifth time. The
Minister of Education said on five separate occasions that the Member for
Ferryland attempted or was buying votes. It was the fifth time when I brought it
to your attention. Now, it is not about bionic ears. The Government House Leader
was sitting right in front of him, and I am sure that he must have heard it, but
he will have to speak for himself because members here did hear it. Mr. Speaker,
we would like you to make a ruling on this before we proceed, if that is
possible.
MR. LUSH: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, if reference to the buying of votes were ruled
unparliamentary in this House, I can assure Your Honour that many people would
have been thrown out of this House many, many times. It is not so much the
utterance of that statement, the buying of votes; it is the context in which it
was said. Sometimes it is not said in a venomous way, in an acrimonious way.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. LUSH: Sometimes it is just said as a comment back and forth. I say to
the hon. member again, it is a matter of nitpicking and the holier than thou
approach, the approach that he has been using in this House for the past number
of days.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, we have gone from me supposedly having a
bionic ear to the Government House Leader now saying that it was not said with
any venom.
The fact of the matter was that a charge was made on five separate occasions
by the Minister of Education. If he had any sense of fortitude about himself, he
would stand up and acknowledge that it was done in the heat of debate and
withdraw the comment, like any parliamentary person should do.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, with regard to the issue of buying votes, it goes
back to Fogo Island. If you want to know who accused the hon. member of buying
votes, it was the then leader of their party, Ms Lynn Verge, and it was
supported by those opposite because the executive of the PC Party agreed with it
and threw out his delegates!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair advises the hon. Opposition House Leader - and I have heard the
Government House Leader - and I assure you that all of the comments that were
made on both sides will be taken under advisement and the Chair will report
back.
The hon. the Member for Ferryland.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to state on the record, I have heard it several times by the Member
for Fogo and Twillingate, and when the Minister of Finance joined in and shouted
on three occasions. I have never in my life tried to buy or attempted to buy a
vote.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: And I never will, I might add. As much as they want to get
down there and make an accusation, I never have. Mr. Speaker, I want to earn the
right to get someone's vote, not to buy it. I want to get it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: For people in debate in this House, the Member for St. John's
Centre, the Minister of Finance, and the Minister representing Education, the
Member for Fogo & Twillingate, to get on with that nonsense here, is getting
down to the lowest level you can get, Mr. Speaker. I personally take offence to
it and I think this House should not tolerate that. It should not proceed until
that decision is made on this point of order, because it undermines the
integrity of this entire House -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: - and the democracy by which we operate.
Mr. Speaker, I feel, as Speaker of this House, you have an obligation to
settle that matter and put it to rest before we proceed.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I advise all hon. members that I will adjourn the House now and report back.
Recess
MR. SPEAKER (Butler): Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, just on a quick point before you make your
ruling, when we left the House a few moments ago there was a motion to adjourn
proceedings. Technically, when the House was voted upon, the motion was passed
and the House was adjourned; but we are willing to provide leave to the Chair to
provide the ruling, and I wonder if the Government House Leader is also willing
to provide leave for the ruling.
MR. LUSH: Certainly, Mr. Speaker, I am interested in carrying on the
House. I think there was a technicality, and if everyone is allowed to agree, I
am permitted to agree and allow the House to continue and allow Mr. Speaker to
make his ruling.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. LUSH: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Thank you.
I would like to advise all hon. members, I guess, being new in the Chair, I
will start this way: It was a slip of the tongue when I took the motion for
adjournment verses recess. However, we have reviewed the tapes. There is no
indication on the tapes that there was a motion put forward, or if the motion
was carried or defeated on the tape.