November 28, 2005 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV

No. 37

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

The Speaker wishes to rule on a point of privilege raised in the House on

Thursday, November 24, by the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

The minister, in his submission, held the view that the Member for Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi, in posing a question to the Minister of Education, questioned

his motives in holding a meeting with the Chief Executive Officer of the Eastern

School District. I have carefully read the Hansard transcript of the question as

phrased by the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi. His question was directed to

the Minister of Education as follows: Can the minister advise how it is that the

Minister of Municipal Affairs could have a meeting with the school councils in

his district, talk about this report and practically announce a new school for

his district based on the findings of this report?

The Minister of Municipal Affairs responded to the question. Shortly

therefore he raised on a point of order, which the Chair asked to be deferred to

a time following Question Period. The minister did not then pursue the matter

and following Question Period, he rose on a point of privilege.

The privileges of Parliament are rights which are, according to Marleau and

Montpetit, absolutely necessary for the due execution of its powers. Thus,

individual members can only claim privilege insofar as any denial of their

rights, or threat made to them, would impede the functioning of the House of a

member to fulfil his parliamentary obligations. Thus, as noted in Beauchesne

31(1), page 13, of the 6 th Edition, quote, "A dispute arising

between two Members, as to allegations of facts, does not fulfil the conditions

of parliamentary privilege." Therefore, while there was a disagreement

between two hon. members, the Chair rules that there is no prima facie evidence

of a breach of parliamentary privilege.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we have statements by the following members:

the hon. the Member for the District of Grand Falls-Buchans; the hon. the Member

for the District of Trinity-Bay de Verde; the hon. the Member for the District

of Port de Grave; the hon. the Member for the District of St. John's North;

the hon. the Member for the District of Burin-Placentia West.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for the District of Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to congratulate Mr. Sterling Thomas,

a Grand Falls-Windsor resident, who has been recognized twice in a matter of

days for his volunteer service.

Mr. Thomas was named Royal Canadian Legion Branch 12's Legionnaire of the

Year, and then awarded the YMCA Peace Medal for demonstrating a commitment to

peace through personal contributions made within his community.

Mr. Thomas is ninety-two years old and he has been an active member of the

Royal Canadian Legion Branch 12 for more than thirty years. He served in the

Newfoundland Militia from 1940-1945 and in the Royal Newfoundland Regiment from

1957-1962.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Sterling Thomas has served on various committees of the

Legion including: the sick visiting committee, the branch program of Christmas

recognition of sick and shut-in veterans, and the Interfaith Cemetery Committee.

Mr. Thomas was also awarded the Newfoundland and Labrador Volunteer Medal two

years ago, having been nominated by the Legion and the Grand Falls-Windsor

Kiwanis Club.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of this hon. House of Assembly to join with me

in congratulating Mr. Sterling Thomas on his most recent award.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, last month the Trinity-Conception-Placentia Health Care

Foundation held their annual telethon. Throughout the day, I visited each

district centre, staffed by volunteers, where I witnessed again and again

communities uniting for a definitive purpose.

Mr. Speaker, as a result of the generosity of area residents, $320,000 was

raised for this worthwhile cause. Monies raised will be used for intensive care

unit central monitoring equipment, an anaesthesia system, a coagulation unit and

other specialized equipment.

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the residents of Trinity-Conception and

Placentia areas for their continued support and all the volunteers who ensure

that this telethon exceeded all expectations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

This past summer we had the official opening of the Bay Robert's Visitors

Pavilion, referred to by many as the gateway to the Baccalieu Trail.

The tourism committee came up with the idea for the pavilion in the year

2000, as a place where visitors to the area of Conception and Trinity Bays could

stop over, not only to learn about Bay Robert's, but the other communities in

the region.

Mr. Speaker, in June 2000 the facility started as a lookout and rest area and

has since expanded to the multi-purpose facility we have today. The commitment

and dedication of the residents and the volunteers who participated in making

this project a reality are efficient in the quality of this pavilion. It is a

true reflection of the pride they have in the area.

Mr. Speaker, it was a joy to be present at the official opening this past

summer to witness then Mayor Wilbur Sparkes, along with the Citizen of the Year,

Mr. Eric Mercer, who officially opened the building by cutting of the ribbon.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating the Town of Bay Robert's and their tourism committee on this

wonderful facility.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDGLEY: Mr. Speaker, today I would like to pay tribute to Ms

Elizabeth Ares, a teacher at Leary's Brook Junior High, whose creative

efforts, combined with her community spirit, have produced tremendous results in

helping the less fortunate.

In 1999, Ms Ares was looking for a way to motive the students at Leary's

Brook to help with a food drive and she came up with the idea of encouraging

them to fill a Volkswagen Bug with food. The students actually filled it three

times. In the years since then, Ms Ares and the students have continued the

annual food drive using different types of vehicles, and this year they filled

two Hummers.

This food drive at Leary's Brook has proven to be the most successful food

drive of any school in the Province. As a matter of fact, Ms Ares regularly

receives calls and e-mails from other schools asking about her methods of

motivating the students. She is happy to share her technique of having teams of

students competing against each other and allocating different point scores for

different kinds of food.

The Community Food Sharing Association tells her what kind of food is in

greatest need and that will be the item that receives the biggest point

allocation. Ms Ares may have been inspired to do this kind of work when, as a

child, she watched her mother organize food drives in Conception Bay South; but,

whatever the inspiration, she and the students are to be commended for their

accomplishment.

I ask all members of the House to join me in congratulating Ms Elizabeth Ares

and the students at Leary's Brook for their great effort to help others.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to offer congratulations to Mrs. Margaret Ellen

Moores of Rushoon on reaching the wonderful age of 100 years.

On November 5, I shared in a community celebration of the life of Aunt

Maggie, as she is known to family and friends. The celebration began with a mass

led by Father Jeff, followed by a gathering in the community centre where words

of congratulations were offered and presentation of gifts were given.

The mass was also unique for another reason; for, as there was a celebration

of Mrs. Moores' life, the family was also sharing in the christening of Mrs.

Moores great grandchild, Kiera Ellen Marie.

To Mrs. Moores' family and friends, I offer congratulations.

Mr. Speaker, one of the gifts given to Mrs. Moores was a book. Yes, Mr.

Speaker, at the age of 100, Mrs. Moores is an avid reader, enjoys doing puzzles

and watching television.

I would ask all members of this hon. House to join me in extending

congratulations to Mrs. Margaret Moores, and we wish her many more.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to inform my colleagues of the outcome of the First Ministers'

Meeting on Aboriginal Peoples that was held in Kelowna, British Columbia, last

week. I was accompanied by my Deputy Premier and Minister Responsible for

Aboriginal Affairs, Tom Rideout.

We were pleased to be joined by Aboriginal leaders from this Province,

including William Andersen III, Ben Michel, Anastasia Qupee, Mary-Ann Nui and

Chief Mi'sel Joe, among others.

Mr. Speaker, these meetings represented an historic occasion as provincial

and territorial leaders gathered with the Prime Minister and Leaders of the

First Nations, Inuit and Metis people of Canada.

Working together with our counterparts throughout the country, we

accomplished great things for the Aboriginal people of Canada including a firm

and unequivocal commitment from everyone involved to work collectively to

improve the lives of Aboriginal people.

The key outcome of the meeting was a commitment of funding from the federal

government of $5.1 billion over a five year period. This funding represents a

clear recognition that the serious gaps that continue to exist between

Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal people in Canada are no longer acceptable.

Included in the funding is: $1.8 billion for education; $1.315 billion for

health care; $1.6 billion for housing and infrastructure; $200 million for

economic opportunities; and $170 million for relationships and accountability.

In addition to the funding, there was also a clear acknowledgment that

monitoring of progress and accountability must occur on a go-forward basis.

Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to say that outcomes were achieved by consensus

between the Premiers, the Prime Minister and Aboriginal peoples. Despite

competing needs around that table, at the end of the day there were no

dissenting voices. Rather, there was an overwhelming desire by all to work

together to address the critical issues facing Aboriginal people. In fact, the

comment was made several times that never had such co-operation occurred at the

First Ministers' table.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say how impressed I was with the presentations of the

Aboriginal leaders, both leading up to and during that particular meeting. My

ministers and I met with Aboriginal leaders from our Province a few weeks ago,

including a special meeting with representatives from Aboriginal women's

groups. They clearly, and quite passionately, articulated for us the challenges

that they face on a daily basis. They also expressed their hope for the future,

and the opportunities that exist in their communities.

In particular, Mr. Speaker, issues facing Aboriginal women were brought to

the forefront at these meetings, and progress made in assisting Aboriginal women

face the challenges that they deal with every day of their lives.

I also took that opportunity to make representation to the federal government

for funding on two fronts for the Aboriginal people of this Province. First of

all, I requested assistance in establishing a Centre of Excellence in Labrador

for ethical and professional research on the root causes and best approaches to

dealing with social challenges like addictions, fetal alcohol syndrome, violence

and, most importantly, suicide.

Secondly, I requested federal assistance to establish a long-term therapeutic

foster home in Labrador for at-risk children, whereby young people who need help

can be referred for assessment, counselling, substance abuse treatment, or

long-term care. This would allow Labrador youth to get help in an environment

that is actually closer to their own cultural background.

I am hopeful that we will have a positive response from the federal

government on these two requests.

The challenge is now ours to ensure that the FMM is not just another meeting

with billions of dollars in drive-by funding. We must all work together to

ensure that this money is used to improve the lives of all Aboriginal people in

this country, especially for the children and the youth.

Mr. Speaker, the needs are great; however, the FMM demonstrated this country's

willingness to allocate resources where they are needed, and I am confident that

over the course of time we will build upon the successes of last week.

On Thursday the Nunatsiavut government will officially be formed, and I look

forward to that ceremony which is another step on the journey to a brighter

future for Aboriginal people in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the Premier for an

advance copy of his statement.

No doubt they are great words coming from this meeting. Premier, I guess

noone knows more about the concerns and the fears of the Aboriginal people in

this Province. Over the last number of years I saw a government that I was a

member of do many things and spend a great deal of money to help out with

facilities that were needed on the North Coast of Labrador. Unfortunately, all

the things that needed to be done are not done and there is a lot more that

needs to be done.

Premier, while we look at the announcement of money, there is something far

greater that is needed. We need the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs from this

government and the federal minister to come into our communities, like

Natuashish, and sit down with the people face to face, not with the deputy

ministers or senior civil servants but with the ministers themselves, to sit

down in these communities, not in St. John's, not in Goose Bay, not in Ottawa,

but on the coast, to see firsthand. No doubt the people themselves will have to

play the key role, but we also need that assurance for guidance along the way.

The Aboriginal people have moved forward greatly in the last number of years,

and I am proud too to be at that meeting on Thursday, but, Premier, the Province

also has a responsibility. There is a lot of talk of dollars from the federal

government, that no doubt has to fund most of the programs, but I hope that your

government will continue to place funds to assist people and, most importantly

of all, stand side by side with the Aboriginal people as they move forward in

their daily way of life.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, first of all, want to say that the Premier has participated in what might

be considered a sea change in attitude by government toward Aboriginal people,

not initiated by him, but over the last number of years there has been a

significant change in this Province by government toward the Aboriginal people

of Newfoundland and Labrador, and some very positive steps have been taken. I,

too, am pleased to be able to go on Thursday for the official launching of the

Aboriginal self-government to Nunatsiavut. The Premier, himself, in his meetings

last week in Labrador, went out of his way to listen - I think that is a very

important step - to hear first-hand from the Aboriginal women's leaders and

the Aboriginal leaders not only in Labrador but elsewhere as to what the issues

are that they face. I think the First Ministers' Meeting is also indicative of

- perhaps for the first time there seems to be a positive note coming from it in

terms of the kind of consensus that we have seen.

I am disappointed that not included in the trip to the First Ministers'

Meeting were representatives of the Labrador Metis Nation. I would encourage the

government to work with them to ensure that they are fully participating in the

issues that are unfolding in Labrador. That is an important step as well.

We believe there are serious significant problems remaining, and I know the

Premier would acknowledge that. I would hope that the government works hand in

hand with the Aboriginal people so that they can participate in actually

designing the programs, whether they be educational or social in nature, so that

they can have the maximum possible effect on helping to solve the many problems

that these communities have as they go forward.

I look forward to the day, Mr. Speaker, when the Aboriginal people in

Labrador have a great measure of control over their own affairs in designing

their social program, their educational program, and taking charge through the

kind of Aboriginal self-government that we have seen in the Nunatsiavut

agreement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to inform my colleagues that the Government of Newfoundland and

Labrador has signed Phase 2 of the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Affordable

Housing Agreement.

This agreement will see an additional $10.62 million provided to increase the

supply of affordable housing for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. This includes

a spending commitment of $5.3 million from the provincial government.

Mr. Speaker, funding will be used to encourage production of new and

affordable rental housing for low-income seniors. As well, it will provide more

supportive rental housing for persons with mental, developmental, or physical

health needs who require supports to live independently.

A minimum of 140 new units will be created with a maximum funding level

$75,000 per unit. Rental rates will be set at a level that will be affordable

for low-income households eligible for social housing.

As well, recent flexibilities negotiated under Phase 1 will now allow the

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation to improve social housing that is

severely deteriorated.

Mr. Speaker, we anticipate that by the year 2010 approximately 700 affordable

housing units will have been created or repaired under Phase 1 and Phase 2 of

this agreement.

Whether it is promoting Raising the Roof's annual toque campaign, or

partnering with the federal government by investing over $10 million in

affordable housing, we are working together to provide affordable housing to

people in this Province who need it most.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.

MR. SHELLEY: The right copy.

MR. BUTLER: He says the right copy this time, thank you.

I want to assure you, Sir, that all of us on this side of the House are

pleased at any time when there are new fundings announced that are going to help

improve the lives of the residents of this Province, and more so, I guess, when

it deals with the low-income seniors and those with mental, developmental, and

physical health needs as well.

Mr. Speaker, you mentioned in your statement that this will also help to

improve the existing social housing that is severely deteriorated. That is a

wonderful venture as well, but I want to say, Sir, from your news release, I

know that the St. John's, Corner Brook, Grand Falls areas were mentioned; that

is where the heavy influx of this might be spent. I know you are a very caring

individual, and I want you to consider the other smaller areas of the Province;

because I have people in my area who do not qualify for the home repair program

and, because of the cost, it is not in the program to repair their homes. I

think those people should be considered under this venture.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired.

MR. BUTLER: Like I said, I want to thank you for a copy of your

statement.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to recognize this is an important step in the provision of affordable

housing in Newfoundland and Labrador. We have seen, since 1994, the federal

government withdraw from housing and only in the last couple of years have they

gotten back in it again. Recently, as of last spring, with the NDP promotion of

a new budget deal, more money was made available, and we hope we will see more

things like that in the future.

I am particularly delighted to see that the supportive housing units will be

made available, 140 units. I want to congratulate groups like the Stella Burry

Corporation who have been extremely active in promoting and developing social

housing projects and plans in co-operation with this government and the

forward.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform the House of a unique initiative of

fisheries and aquaculture ministers from Eastern Canada in promoting the region's

aquaculture industry in the nation's capital earlier this month.

As the first alternate minister for fisheries and aquaculture, I joined with

ministers from Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick in the

Aquaculture Promotion Initiative on November 14, 15 and 16. This initiative was

designed to educate MPs and Senators about the importance of the aquaculture

industry to rural and coastal communities. We met with the Atlantic caucus of

the Conservative, Liberal and NDP parties, and co-hosted a reception showcasing

Canadian aquaculture products on Parliament Hill. Representatives from Quebec

and British Columbia also participated in this initiative.

Mr. Speaker, these meetings resulted in our federal representatives getting a

greater level of knowledge and understanding about the aquaculture industry, its

potential, and the need for the development of a national policy and programs

for the industry. We took the initiative to engage our federal representatives

and present them with an informative overview of the industry. Our federal

representatives have a role to play in helping facilitate a co-operative

approach with the federal and provincial governments. They now have the

information they need to assist the provinces in engaging the federal

government.

As provincial ministers, we called on our federal representatives to get to

know the industry and to help dispel the myths that threaten its continued

growth. We believe aquaculture represents a tremendous opportunity in

stabilizing and growing our rural economies.

Mr. Speaker, the provinces have created a model for interprovincial

co-operation with a message that cannot be ignored. Rural and coastal areas

across this country are facing the same issues as it relates to the loss of the

traditional resource industries. Aquaculture is an industry that can only exist

in rural and coastal communities.

Aquaculture has tremendous potential in this Province. Mr. Speaker, total

production is expected to increase by 27 per cent this year over 2004. We are

producing 4, 100 metric tons of salmonids this year and 3,000 metric tons of

mussels. We have some of the only remaining sites suitable for development in

Eastern Canada, and we are attracting the interest of outside investors. As

well, Mr. Speaker, we were very encouraged in August when one of the Province's

leading traditional seafood companies, the Barry Group, took over the former

North Atlantic Seafood Corporation from receivers.

Mr. Speaker, the top seafood processing plant in Newfoundland and Labrador

produces fresh farmed salmon year-round. In our view, Mr. Speaker, cod is the

next major farm species worldwide, and we have the technology, expertise and the

right biophysical conditions to take advantage of this opportunity. With less

than 10 per cent of aquaculture space currently being utilized, we are committed

to developing this industry for the benefit of our rural communities.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of his Ministerial

Statement here today.

Anything that the government can do to encourage aquaculture in the Province

would be greatly appreciated not only by those in the industry but by us on this

side of the floor as well. We have always supported aquaculture. In fact, when

we were in government, we put a tremendous amount of money into salmonids and

into the mussels and into the cod hatchery in Bay Roberts. We encouraged the

investment as well by the federal government at that time.

There is a tremendous opportunity in this Province for aquaculture. Having

been the Minister of Fisheries myself, I had the opportunity, was afforded the

opportunity, to visit aquaculture sites right across this country from the East

Coast to the West, as well as into the United States and the Faeroe Islands.

What I saw happening there could certainly be done here. We certainly have the

capacity to do far more, in fact, than they are doing in these other areas of

the country and the world in general.

It is my understanding that we have the capacity alone in Bay d'Espoir to

do nine times that which is happening in New Brunswick in the entire Province.

So I encourage you to do anything that you could possibly do to grow that

industry. While the aquaculture industry will never replace the value of the

wild fishery to this Province, it could certainly be an important industry with

the right investment.

It is my understanding that you announced, last spring, an Aquaculture Loan

Guarantee Program. It is my understanding, though, that only one company has

been able to avail of that. I suggest to the minister and to the government that

they loosen up the conditions and the regulations applying for that, in applying

for money under that fund, so that others can avail of it. In the meantime,

anything that can be done to encourage the industry will be greatly appreciated.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's allotted time has expired.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.

I encourage the minister to keep up the work in this area, because

aquaculture in this Province certainly has great potential. As previously

mentioned, it may never replace what we knew as a traditional fishery, but there

are certainly a lot of opportunities for a lot of people to get involved in the

aquaculture industry.

This coincides with the monies that were announced last week for the

municipal infrastructure program. Hopefully, the raw sewerage that is

continuously being dumped into our coastal waters will be able to be curbed in

the years to come; that will provide for an even better environment to conduct

aquaculture affairs. Of course, with the greater enforcement of ships passing by

our coastline dumping their bilge water, anything like that could have serious

implications for the development of our aquaculture -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired.

MR. COLLINS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. COLLINS: - for our aquaculture industry to develop.

I say to the minister, this is an important initiative. There is lots of room

for expansion, and we encourage those out there to get involved and continue in

their endeavours in this area.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Premier.

I apologize for my voice being somewhat hoarse today. It might have something

to do with the hockey we played on the weekend.

Mr. Speaker, after weekend meetings in Stephenville with Abitibi management,

union workers feel stronger than ever that this company is trying to strip their

contract. This is taking place even though the provincial government is on

record publicly as stating that they will not permit Abitibi to strip contracts

of their employees.

I ask the Premier: Why is your government doing nothing to prevent the

contract stripping that is happening with Abitibi in Stephenville, and why are

you continuing to allow Abitibi Consolidated to play psychological warfare with

its workers in the Stephenville region?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will defer other related questions to, subsequently, the minister because I

was out of town last week for three days, because, in fact, he did have

conversations with officials in Stephenville.

However, having said that, as the Opposition is aware, government stepped up

to the plate in a major way in order to try and make this happen. We made a

significant commitment from the Government of Newfoundland and the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador in order to safeguard the people of Stephenville, the

workers in Stephenville, the community of Stephenville and, indeed, all the

people in the Bay St. George region, and that is why we did step up.

Having said that, we also - and full credit to the Minister of Natural

Resources on this - went out of our way to engage the communities and to engage

the union workers and the officials in the union, both in Grand Falls and in

Stephenville. We have kept in communication with them. Once we put our plan out

and reached a tentative framework with the company, it was the wish of the union

that they then engage the company. We have been very, very clear, on the record,

that we will not allow the stripping of the agreement; that we are not in

support of it; that we are in full support of the union and we will only accept

an agreement that the union accepts. So, we will not be party to anything that

dismantles their agreement or puts them in a weaker position. So, they are

negotiating head to head with the company. If they are not happy with the

results, then the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is not happy with the

results either.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier says that he will not permit Abitibi to strip contracts in

Stephenville but this is exactly what Abitibi has been trying to do since August

1, I say to the Premier. So it is time that you stepped in there and at least

talk to the company about their tactics.

Mr. Speaker, in the proposed $175 million deal the government has presented

to Abitibi, it states that funding should be tied to ensuring that Abitibi

Consolidated maintains its production levels in Stephenville. We all know that

job losses and contracting out can take place without seeing any major drop in

production.

I ask the Premier: Instead of production levels, why wasn't the deal made

contingent upon the guaranteeing of employment levels and to ensure that job

levels remain the same as they were before you offered the $175 million to

Abitibi?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this is an incredible question from an incredible Opposition

who, in 2002, signed an agreement on the Exploits River, commonly known as the

Beaton Unit, that gave Abitibi Consolidated an extra twenty-seven megawatts of

power, did not tie that agreement to milling, did not tie it to logging in

Central Newfoundland and did not tie it to the continued operations of Abitibi

in Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, when it comes to comparing what we

reaped out of Abitibi and what we demanded out of Abitibi, I will stand against

their record any day of the week.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Lots of rhetoric, no answers. I say to the minister, you criticize us for not

doing something. You are now tying money to production levels and not employment

levels. In fact, you are doing something that was worse than what we did.

Mr. Speaker, government has committed -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, government has committed up to $175 million -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is a limited time allocated for Question Period. The Chair recognizes

the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I fail to see the humour in this. Members opposite

are over there laughing while 300, 400, 500, 600 jobs are on the line with

Abitibi. I fail to see the humour in that, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, government has committed up to $175 million to Abitibi without

addressing the real issue, and that is energy costs to that mill. As a matter of

fact, in a recent telegram

article both government and the company stated that

neither will be spending money to come up with solutions to the energy problems

facing it.

I ask the Premier, during the election you said you had all the solutions,

including a solution to the energy problems: Why are you now instead, paying

Abitibi to take our resources without looking into the long-term energy solution

that is required for the Stephenville operation?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, let me say it from the onset: there is nothing that we have done

that was worse than what they did. I want that laid out for the public record

first of all, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Secondly, the Opposition need to get a focus on where they

are with this issue. One of the Leader's Opposition members is totally dead

set against the agreement that we put forward. The Leader of the Opposition,

himself, has said maybe we should develop the Exploit's River, which is in

complete contravention to his colleague from Grand Falls-Buchans. The fact of

the matter is this, that the arrangement that we put forward is supported by the

town council and the leadership in the Bay St. George area. It is strongly

supported by the union leadership and its rank and file and, Mr. Speaker, it is

strongly supported for the reasons that we outlined because we anted up to where

we felt would be a good arrangement that would keep that mill going. We believe

we have done that, and so do the people in the area. The question is: Where is

it that you are on this issue today?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, still no answers to this very serious problem.

Mr. Speaker, the people of Grand Falls-Windsor are also facing uncertainly.

In recent meetings with union officials, Abitibi management stated that number

seven paper machine would stay open until 2008. The next day, Seth Kursman,

senior official with Abitibi, said that wasn't so.

I ask the Premier: When was the last meeting that you or your government held

with Abitibi and has the company given any further indication to you or anyone

in your government of their intentions about the number seven machine?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, for the record, Abitibi local management brought that message

forward that the Leader of the Opposition talked about on a Monday. It was the

following Monday, out of Montreal, that we heard there was some mis-communication.

Now, it is not what Abitibi believes about number seven in Grand Falls, Mr.

Speaker, what it is all about is what this government believes. To date they

know where we are, that unless there is an acceptable proposal to the union

employees to the town leadership and to the region's leadership, Bill 27

remains in tact and that is the reason number seven is running today.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the deadline for keeping Abitibi's operation open in this

Province is quickly approaching. It is my understanding that 9:30 the 11 th

of December is D-Day for the people in Stephenville.

I ask the Premier: What is the government doing in these final days to ensure

that there is a successful resolution found for both Stephenville and Grand

Falls-Windsor mills?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are doing what we have continued to do in this issue. Number

one, our position is consistent. It is not ever changing every day like the

Leader of the Opposition and his hon. colleagues over there. Depending on the

day you ask them, depending on the member you ask, you are getting a different

version. So, number one, our position remains unchanged.

Just today I spoke with the officials from the union leadership in

Stephenville, for example, to get an update on what the situation was and where

they were going, and some of the stories they told me were absolutely

frightening. They do know this, Mr. Speaker, that this government stands behind

them. We asked them: Is there anything we can do. They said: We will certainly

let you know in the very near future. They do know this: That this government

stands behind them, the people in the Bay St. George area, in an attempt to keep

that mill open.

The question the Leader of the Opposition needs to ask: Where is he and his

party on this issue today?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the government leader, if you think we ever did anything as bad as

you, just look what you are doing to the seniors in Corner Brook.

The Hay Report recommendations number 172 is to move seniors at Western

Memorial Hospital who are waiting for long-term beds to the next bed available

in the region, namely Port aux Basques, Port Saunders, Burgeo and Bonne Bay.

Seniors from Corner Brook are being moved away from their spouses, their

families, during the last years of their lives. This is no way to treat our

seniors.

Will the minister put a stop to this cruel and inhumane policy?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: What the hon. member is referring to, Mr. Speaker, is

what is referred to as a first available bed policy. The member is right, from

the point of view that several days ago, last week in the City of Corner Brook,

there were situations where there were residents or patients at Western Memorial

who were occupying long-term care beds at Western Memorial.

The situation is simply this, Mr. Speaker - and it is an unfortunate one, but

it is an important one. There were individuals who required acute care. There

were individuals who required critical care. There were individuals who required

emergent care and, in some cases, surgery. Yes, Mr. Speaker, on an interim

basis, a number of individuals were moved to the nearest facility. I am aware of

some six, for example, who are presently at Port aux Basques. It is done on an

interim basis to ensure that those who require acute and emergent care in the

City of Corner Brook, in fact, get it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, last year when I asked the Premier about this

issue, I was accused of playing politics with health care issues. Now that

families are being torn apart, was it politics or reality? When the Premier was

in Opposition, the Member for Humber West, he was totally opposed to this move.

Will the Premier now stand up for these seniors and put an immediate stop to

this recommendation, which three years ago he was dead set against?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The answer is quite simple here. The problem was caused by your government

when you were in government. The problem is, is that government, when it had an

opportunity to do so, did not fill a long-term care facility for the people of

Corner Brook and the Western region. That is the problem. It was only as a

result of the insistence of us, when we were in Opposition at the time, that

this facility was built. We made a commitment to the people of Corner Brook and

the Western region that this facility would be built. Ground has been broken. We

have committed the funds and that will be completed. The problem is, people now

have to be moved because of the negligence of that government when you were in

office.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, it is pretty sad when the Premier wants to use us

for an excuse when he has $2 billion in the bank and taking seniors and moving

them away.

I had a call today, Premier, from the son of an eighty-nine-year-old man who

asked him: How long would it take him to drive to Port aux Basques daily to

visit his wife? Is that what you want to blame on us, for something you are

doing? For God's sake, take responsibly for it!

The services at Western Memorial Regional Hospital has declined over the past

two years. Beds have closed, Premier. Surgeries have been delayed and deficit

has doubled. We hear the minister talk about improved services, increased

funding for health care, $2 billion in revenues and extra funding from oil

reserves.

I ask the minister: Is keeping families together in time of sickness and

keeping families together when they need support, the most essential part of

health care services, or is it better to save the $2 billion which we have in

our bank account today?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have a top-notch facility at Western Memorial Hospital in Corner Brook.

The services are provided by top-notch health care professionals who are

dedicated to their jobs and dedicated to the people of the region.

I say, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. member, that the situation he is talking

about is a temporary one, it is an interim one, it is in response to some

pressures that presently exist and, as the hon. Premier just indicated, we have

a brand new, long-term care facility that will be erected in the City of Corner

Brook in the not-to-distant future, in response to an identified need in that

area for the senior citizens of that region.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, it is going to take three

to four years to have that long-term care. That is not temporary to a senior who

is in the last few days or years of their life, I say to the minister.

Now we see why political patronage is so important for this government, Dr.

Tony Genge, chair of the board, a former PC candidate, and Charles Pender, a

former PC nominee, is the Corner Brook representative on the board appointed by

this government. As these two individuals are more interested in serving their

political masters than the people they represent, I ask the Premier and the

Member for Humber East: Will you now stand up for the people of Corner Brook and

have this policy dropped immediately?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I say to the hon. member, the point and the

question is most inappropriate. We are talking about two dedicated individuals

who volunteer their time. Dr. Genge, a professional educator, a PhD, a man who

is dedicated to his profession and is willing to give up his time; Mr. Pender, I

understand, was recently elected mayor by the citizens of the City of Corner

Brook. Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am asking members for their co-operation. The Chair recognizes the minister

to complete his comments.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: In conclusion on that point, Mr. Speaker, I simply say,

we have dedicated volunteers, we have dedicated trustees, people who are willing

to give of their time and their energy to the well-being and the health

interests of the people of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This weekend I was on Fogo Island and I was absolutely appalled, Mr. Speaker,

to learn that the long-term care residents of Fogo Island are being sent off the

island to find appropriate and adequate care in the last years of their lives.

Mr. Speaker, I also learned that there are ten beds in a brand new, health

care facility on Fogo Island that have been closed up and are not open to

provide a service to these residents. I would like to ask the minister today to

open those beds and allow the residents of Fogo Island to stay on their island

and receive appropriate long-term care.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, from time to time, and we have representation in our department

and I know the hon. Leader of the Opposition, whose district, of course, is -

Fogo Island includes part of his district. However, what is important here is

that when an issue arises, the matter is forwarded and addressed then by Central

Health and when accommodations can be made, they are made. However, in response

directly to the question, the policy right now of the board - and this

government supports the decision of the board because the board knows best what

the situation is on Fogo Island, that if ten beds are to be closed and that is

the recommendation, Mr. Speaker, we support it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is appalling when you have residents in this Province who

live on an island, with a brand new health care facility, with ten beds closed

down, and they have to leave and go and find adequate long-term care somewhere

else in the Province. The minister will have to agree that long-term care is

becoming a crisis here, no matter if you are in Corner Brook, Labrador,

Clarenville, Carbonear or Fogo Island. I say to you today, minister, open the

ten beds and let the people on Fogo Island have an adequate long-term care

facility.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, the administration of Central Health, the

board of Central Health, they know the situation. They deal on a day-to-day

basis with the residents of Fogo Island. They have representation -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I am asking all members for their co-operation.

The Chair recognizes the minister to complete his comments.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The board, on a regular basis, or whenever called upon, will receive

representation from any community and any individual. In this particular case we

will certainly continue to monitor, we will certainly continue to interact with

Central Health, but, as I have indicated earlier, these professionals, these

administrators, these board members, are there to act in the interests of the

overall health and well-being of the people of that region and we support their

decisions and their views.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe what I am hearing. This is a

government that, in a by-election in the District of Exploits, overruled the

recommendations of a school board in light of something else, choosing a

different option. I am just saying, choose a different option today, Minister.

Mr. Speaker, when this government took office over two years ago, they said

they would reduce the debt for health care boards and they would get it under

control. Well, when I look at the Western Health Care Corporation today, and

where their board debt is, I say to the minister, it is more out of control. In

the past year, the 2004-2005 year, the accumulated deficit for the Western

Health Care Board almost doubled, I say to you, Minister. Can you tell me what

your government is going to do to try and bring those board debts in line, or at

least give these boards the actual funding they need to operate on an annual

basis?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, in response to that question, obviously, as

a government, we continue to work with our regional health authorities. Western

Health is no different. Yes, there are some issues with respect to budget. We

know that, the public of this Province knows that, and we will continue to work

with Western Health and, indeed, any other board to deal with these deficits to

ensure that, again, the health interests of the people of our Province are

protected and secured.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, when you have a health board in this Province

whose deficit is accumulating by $2 million, $3 million and $4 million

consecutively, on an annual basis, it tells me there is a problem. They do not

have the money to operate their services appropriately. The only thing that I

have seen out of the government was the Hay Group report which said this is how

you fix your problem: reducing health care services to people in Western

Newfoundland.

I say to the minister today: What are you going to do to get the situation

with Western Health Care under control?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and the President of

Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Health services are increasing in our Province to the tune of an investment

of $113 million last year. Here is what was done for boards this year, and here

is what we have done in mid-year to deal with some of the problems: We gave

boards an extra $20 million last year to deal with the transition from fourteen

boards down to four health authorities. In fact, just recently, when I announced

the mid-term statement - and, just recently, government has given approval for

another $15 million on top of that $113 million this year to deal with the

pressures coming.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, that is $15 million that was not announced at

budget time. It is $128 million counting that, because we have added a whole

array of services to our Province this year, up in the hundreds of millions of

dollars in services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Health.

First, I want to say to the minister, I commend government for doing the

prevalence of gambling study and for its early release on Friday; but, I want to

say to the minister, that report gave some very alarming statistics.

I want to say first that some people have said that the percentage that has

been identified as problem gamblers is low. Well, if you look at it in context,

it is low because, if somebody bought a raffle ticket last December, that is

included as a gambler; or, if someone played cards at home, or played pool, they

are also included as gamblers, so the percentages are low as a result of that.

The problem is of a much higher magnitude.

Mr. Minister, I ask you, this study, while finding some alarming results of

gambling addictions, particularly upon VLT users - for example, the study showed

that VLT use is extensive among problem gamblers and has been referred to by

Stats Canada 2003 as the crack cocaine of gambling. The minister should be aware

that 80 per cent of the 4,641 problem gamblers identified in our Province - more

than 80 per cent of them, 4,600 - more than all other sub groups combined, are

users of VLTs.

I ask the minister: Now that he has this information in his possession, what

does his government plan to do in the immediate future to address this problem?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the hon. member, I thank him for being at the press conference when

we released that prevalence study Friday past. It is an important document. As I

indicated, and the hon. member was present and certainly heard me, we will use

this document as the foundation and the basis upon which further decisions and

further strategies with respect to this very important issue will be addressed.

I indicated at the press conference as well that it will be used as a basis

in terms of budget preparedness as we move forward to deal with - and I

acknowledge the fact, it is a disturbing figure. When we have some 4,600 in this

Province who are defined or described as problem gamblers, it is a disturbing

figure.

Having said that, we have just received the document. We have just released

the document publicly. We now have to do a very thorough analysis in government,

by caucus, by Cabinet. Hopefully, this will prompt as well some public debate

and we will move forward to what is clearly a serious issue affecting the

residents of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to say to the minister, there are many people in this Province who

cannot wait six months to have something done about this problem because they

are going through a crisis as we speak.

Mr. Speaker, counting the number of people who are considered as problem

gamblers, and the number of people who are at risk of being a problem gambler,

the number is over 13,000 people. I say to the minister, if there was something

being sold, products in stores in this Province, that caused 13,000 people to

become sick, and some of them to lose their lives, it would be yanked from the

shelves immediately. It would not be allowed to continue for another six months

for a budget to be passed.

Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister - and I want to ask him or any other

minister who wants to answer - this study identifies gambling problems of a very

high magnitude in the Province today. There is another game out there that some

states have evidenced that is as equally as devastating.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now if he will complete his question quickly.

MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I want to ask whoever might want to respond: Is

the game of electronic KENO abandoned by this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. member has raised that as an issue in the past and there is some

information in the public that is not factual, number one. It is not an

interactive amusement electronic game like VLT, number one. The member has

indicated, and I have read articles that the member is quoted in, that no other

province in the country has it. Absolutely false. There are seven jurisdictions

in the country that now have it. I heard a doctor, an addictions specialist out

of Toronto, indicating that there is no evidence of research to show that. I

have heard him speak on radio here with CBC.

We have indicated that there is a lot of information that is false in the

public forum. We are not going to make a decision on a fearmongering. I ask the

member if he has information. I have attempted for the last year to get

information on this. I have not been able to find any. If he has information on

research that shows that, I would like to have a copy and table it so we can

move forward on factual information that we can see.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Member for Labrador West, on a final

supplementary

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wonder if the minister's top priority is for people in this Province to

have fun, or is it the fact that he can make money off this for the government,

because the Government of Nova Scotia said no to electronic KENO based on what

it could do to the citizens of their province, and the minister is fully aware

of that.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, let me go back to the Minister of Health and

see if I can get a sensible answer. I want to ask the minister: Given the fact

that the people of this Province have continuously voiced their concern over

gambling, will the minister and his officials - prior to a budget coming down in

April - at least replace the representative on the Atlantic Lotto Corporation

Board of Directors with a person from the Department of Health, rather than what

is there now with the Department of Tourism? Because there is nothing touristy

about people's lives being destroyed.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess the question that is asked is an example of the type of analysis and

the kind of decisions that can be made in due course. I repeat, Mr. Speaker, I

repeat, we have a prevalent study just received, just released. The appropriate

due diligence will now take place and we, as a government, will make decisions

in accordance with the information that is now before us to ensure that the

interests of our fellow Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are protected. It is as

simple as that. We have to work towards it. We have a document that we have to

work with, and we will make the appropriate decisions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Time for one more quick question.

The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have one question, and it is to the Premier.

Premier, your government keeps trying to blame the delay of the facility, the

auditorium in Labrador, on the federal government. The truth is that your

government announced money for Leary's Brook school in St. John's,

redevelopment of a school in the Finance Minister's district, and a new gym

for Herdman Collegiate in Corner Brook. By the way, I agree with all of these

announcements; however, none of these facilities required a go-ahead or funding

from the federal government.

Premier, why are you and your government treating the youth on the Island

portion of the Province differently than the youth in Labrador? Premier, why are

you and your government discriminating against the youth in Labrador by not

announcing the funding and the calling of a tender for this urgently required

facility immediately?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I can give the hon. member opposite my firm assurance that there

is absolutely no intention whatsoever to discriminate against youth in Labrador.

I can tell you that. That is quite honestly and quite definitely.

What we have already indicated is that we are now giving favourable

consideration to this particular facility. What we are trying to do is to lever

as much money as we can out of the federal government in order to proceed with

this. We have, in fact -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: If you would just allow me to finish - we have, in

fact, $12 billion worth of debt in this Province. We have the highest amount of

debt per capita than anyone else in the country. The national average is

$10,000, we are $23,000. We need to get every single penny that we can from the

federal government. What better time than right now to get that money. The

Minister of Labrador Affairs and his deputy minister, as of today, are in direct

contact with people in Ottawa in order to try and get that extra money. As

recently as over the last couple of hours we are actively working on this file.

We will deliver for the people of Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allocated for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees. Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

MS WHALEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to table for the hon. members the annual

report for the following: Government Purchasing Agency; Credit Union Deposit

Guarantee Corporation, Central Purchasing Authority, and the Board of

Commissioners of Public Utilities on operations carried out under the Automobile

Insurance Act.

Mr. Speaker, I also am pleased to table the activity letter for the Embalmers

and the Funeral Directors' Board.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Notices of Motion. Answers to Questions for which Notice has

been Given. Petitions. Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in accordance with Standing Orders, I do want to give notice

today that this Wednesday being the Private Members' Day for the government

side, that we will be debating the motion put forward by the Member for Gander

with respect to the research capability and research station in Gander, is my

understanding. I do want to give due notice of that today.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I want to move to Order 8, second reading of a bill,

An Act To Regulate The Practice Of Dietetics, in the Province, Bill 51.

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 51,

An Act To Regulate

The Practice Of Dietetics, be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Regulate The Practice of

Dietetics." (Bill 51)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise at this time and say a few words at second reading

regarding

An Act To Regulate The Practice of Dietetics.

Mr. Speaker, members of this House will notice that there are a number of

health related pieces of legislation that are before us, and they essentially

all have to do with one theme. It was necessary to respond to, certainly, the

desire by the professionals themselves, and certainly a theme of this

government, to accept the notion of self-regulated professions.

Mr. Speaker, we are talking, in this particular bill, about dieticians. We

will notice, as we go through the act, that essentially in recognizing the value

of self-regulated professions it is incumbent on these professions to ensure

that those professionals, those members themselves, are part and parcel of their

own board, and are part and parcel of their own ability to make decisions, so we

have prepared new legislation to govern the practice of dietetics to reflect

that policy respecting governance arrangements and disciplinary procedures for

regulated occupations.

Mr. Speaker, very similar to what we did during the last session of the

House, when we passed a new medical act, members opposite will remember that in

that piece of legislation we gave physicians in this Province the ability to

self-govern, the ability to self-discipline and, essentially, to account for

their own activities. This is really following through with that particular

thinking as we go through the various pieces of legislation over the next day or

so.

This new legislation mirrors those changes in governance, Mr. Speaker, and

disciplinary procedures that were embodied in the Medical Act 2005 which, as I

just indicated, was passed just a few months ago.

The new legislation will provide the Newfoundland and Labrador College of

Dieticians, formerly the Newfoundland Dietetic Association, with the appropriate

investigative power and authority to investigate allegations of wrongdoing.

Mr. Speaker, this new act provides for new disciplinary procedures that

enable the College of Dieticians to respond appropriately through the use of

alternate dispute resolution techniques or, where necessary, through formal

disciplinary proceedings.

The changes to the disciplinary procedures and governance structures are also

part of an ongoing process to provide for uniform disciplinary procedures and

criteria for lay representation across all professions with self-regulating

status. The legislation will point out a provision whereby there will be public

representation or lay representation on the board to deal with issues of

governance and/or discipline.

These changes reflect an intent to ensure that self-regulatory bodies operate

in an open and transparent manner, and that the disciplinary process eliminates

professional or personal bias and, in general, to enhance and improve the public

protection mandate of this particular regulatory body.

The act builds on government's commitment for openness and transparency

through ensuring that disciplinary decisions of the College of Dietitians are

publicly disclosed. Accountability measures are strengthened through mandatory

annual reporting to the minister, the ministerial appointment of lay

representatives to the board and the discipline committee, and requirements to

establish a timely process for responding to allegations of dietitian

misconduct.

It is important to point out, Mr. Speaker, that these changes are with the

full support of the profession. They contributed to, I guess, the philosophy

that we are now putting forward in this particular bill, because they themselves

recognize the value in being a self-governing body and ensuring that they have

some say with respect to the regulation of this particular profession and

discipline issues.

The change to a college model itself was requested, Mr. Speaker, by the

Newfoundland Dietetic Association, and merely reflects the administrative name

change used by the majority of dietetic licensing authorities throughout Canada

and does not have any policy implications.

The ability to obtain qualifications for licensure as a dietitian through

work experience only has been removed. This clause is redundant and is not

reflective of modern entry to practice criteria. Again, the Dietetic Association

supports fully this particular change.

Mr. Speaker, with those few comments I will now allow any of my colleagues on

the opposite side to participate and respond to what we are introducing in this

particular bill.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for that brief overview of Bill 51. As has

already been stated, it is very much a regulatory bill that is basically

streamlining the new associations and the new representations of certain

professional committees within our Province. In this case, it happens to be the

Dietetic Association.

Mr. Speaker, people will know that dietitians in our Province are

acknowledged as professionals that are very uniquely trained to advise with

regard to diet, food and nutrition. Mr. Speaker, quite often people always

associate dietitians with an institutional health care service. I guess that is

not always true because, as you know, they play a very broader role in our

society today. They provide counselling services through individual practices.

They actually provide advice with regard to the production and manufacturing of

food products that are going into the market on a regular basis. They quite

often provide a great deal of the information that we get today as consumers

when it comes to food products, so they have become a source of expertise and a

source of advice when it comes to that kind of health care service being

provided in our country.

Mr. Speaker, we also know that dietitians, in addition to the role that they

play in a professional sense in our communities, quite often a number of the

ones that I know are volunteers, who volunteer with things like food banks and

providing nutritional information to non-profit groups like this. Certainly

that, in itself, is to be commended; but, in addition to that, Mr. Speaker, they

play a very unique role within our health care system, both in the management of

food services and the quality of food within our hospitals and within our

institutions. I certainly wanted to recognize that.

The other thing that I want to recognize today, Mr. Speaker, is that I live

in a region of this Province where we have a large number of Aboriginal people,

and in recent years we have seen the number of Aboriginal people who have been

diagnosed with diabetes growing in numbers. I think that it is safe to say that

probably, when you look at the number of people in our society who are

diabetics, I think the number of Aboriginal people who are actually diabetics

are probably higher than any other group within the country.

I am pleased to learn that there is more money being put forward as of this

weekend by the federal government - the federal Liberal government, I might add

- to provide money for Aboriginal people to do programs such as the one that is

ongoing now with regard to diabetes. Mr. Speaker, I think that is worth

recognizing and acknowledging, that particular contribution that has just been

made by the federal government to put more money into diabetes for Aboriginal

communities.

I know in the last two years a program that was done by the Labrador Metis

Nation, in particular in my district, where they hired counsellors and they

hired information officers to go out there and work with people in the

communities, to educate them about diabetes, to be able to help them develop

good dietary plans and provide them with good food products. There has been a

lot of effort put into that, into the educational component of it, and also, Mr.

Speaker, in encouraging Aboriginal people to eat properly and to develop good

dietary trends. The fact that there is more money coming forward, I hope that it

will be used to continue with programs like that, that have already been started

in Aboriginal communities, because it is a valuable service that is being

provided.

I think it goes without saying, that dietetics in this Province is an

important profession within itself. The dietitians who work throughout

Newfoundland and Labrador need to be recognized for the work that they do, not

just within our institutional care system and within our hospital system, but

the work that they do throughout our communities and have been doing and I am

sure will continue to do, and the important role that they play in everyday life

in Newfoundland and Labrador because they are the experts, they are the people

who provide the information with regard to every food product that we eat,

whether it has nutritional value or whether it does not. So, I think that is a

valuable contribution in terms of having a healthy society of people.

Mr. Speaker, I certainly have no problem with Bill 51. I think that it is

very much a regulatory piece of legislation. I think this needs to be done in

order for these boards to have the self-governing that they want. I think the

disciplinary process will be an open and transparent process, where all the

complaints will be dealt with and the outcomes will be forwarded to the minister

and also to the public. So, it is transparent in terms of that regard,

especially as it relates to any misconduct that might be happening within that

professional association.

Mr. Speaker, I have no problem with Bill 51 and I would just like to add

those few comments.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the minister indicated, this legislation, Bill 51,

An Act To Regulate The

Practice Of Dietetics, is one of a series of pieces of legislation that came

about as a result of a desire on the part of government and the professionals

themselves, to separate the regulation of the profession from the advocacy on

behalf of members of the profession. We have seen this in recent years on a

number of other professions. I know we did it for accountants. We did it for -

pharmacists was the last one I recall doing it last year, where the group that

is responsible for -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. HARRIS: And doctors. We did it for the Medical Association versus the

Medical Board. We have done it for the pharmacists and the Pharmacy Association,

who are now governed by a college, and here we are doing it for dietitians.

Although, I have to say, Mr. Speaker, I have never heard of a situation where

someone who is a dietitian being hauled before the dietitians board or be

charged with some unethical conduct. I am not sure what exactly you would have

to do to be unethical in your profession of dietitian. However, these are

self-governing professions.

MS JONES: (Inaudible).

MR. HARRIS: The Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair says if a

dietician is caught eating salt beef perhaps that would be grounds for

discipline. That would be a very interesting case. Perhaps that is something

that someone could challenge.

Nevertheless, Mr. Speaker, without making light of too much of the notion,

what we are doing here is important from a perspective of ensuring that

dietitians can operate as a body to advocate for their profession, to advocate

on government policy, to do the kind of things that the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair are doing, in terms of pointing out to government and to the population

the need for greater attention to be paid to the issues of diet.

One of the diseases, of course, is that of diabetes, which is a significant

dietary component. What we really need in this Province, Mr. Speaker, is,

perhaps, more dietitians to be able to inform how, for example, school children

are exposed to certain types of food and how we can improve the lot of school

children as a result of that. We have a significant serious problem in our

Province, not in our Province alone, but in every province, with young people

and issues of being overweight or obese, causing significant health problems

down the road for our society and unfortunately, for too many of these children.

Dietitians play an important role, an increasingly important role in our

society, both in terms of ensuring that institutional diets provided for our

seniors, for people in hospital, are proper and appropriate and meet the needs

of people's diet and conditions, and special diets that many people who are

residents of these institutions or homes are required to have. They play an

important role in our society and we certainly want to ensure that the

profession of dietitians is given the recognition that it deserves and to

separate the role of regulating the professional association and carrying out

that the advocacy fund is separated, just as it is with doctors, lawyers and

pharmacists, and others in our society.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, we certainly support this legislation. We

have, as this government and previous governments have, given recognition that

the professions, as an ethical body of professionals, do have the right to

govern themselves from the point of view of setting standards and ensuring that

people meet those standards, whether they be educational or experiential,

depending on the role, but also to maintain ethical standards within these

professions to ensure that those who are holding themselves out, as a

professional dietician in this case, both have the qualifications and also have

the mechanism, if people have complaints about a person in the profession and

how they carry out their occupation and business, that they have a body to which

to go to bring those complains and get redressed and ensure that they do have a

mechanism for bringing these complaints forward.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I support the legislation.

MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services

speaks now he will close the debate at second reading.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I wish to thank my critic, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair, and the Leader of the New Democratic Party for their comments and for

their general support, and, I guess, the clear recognition, Mr. Speaker, that

these changes are being done for the right reasons. They are being done to

support a group of individuals who, themselves, support these changes, simply

because they appreciate the fact that if they are truly going to be recognized

as a profession, as a group of health professionals practicing in a certain area

in Newfoundland and Labrador on a day-to-day basis, that they ought to have that

right to simply be self-governing and to be in a position to discipline.

I agree with the point made by my colleague, the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi, that it is difficult to envisage when a discipline matter may arise.

However, the mechanism, at least, is now in place. I say to my friend from

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, although not likely, at least there is a mechanism

in place to deal in the unlikely and, perhaps, the unfortunate event that a

disciplinary issue must be addressed and adjudicated upon.

So, Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleagues opposite and I now move second reading

of Bill 51,

An Act To Regulate The Practice Of Dietetics.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 51,

An Act To

Regulate The Practice Of Dietetics, be now read a second time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act To Regulate The Practice Of Dietetics. (Bill 51)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 51 has now been read a second time. When shall this

bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House. Tomorrow?

MR. E. BYRNE: Later today.

MR. SPEAKER: Later in the day.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Regulate The Practice Of Dietetics,"

read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House

presently, by leave. (Bill 51)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Before moving to Order 9, I would like to move one of the motions on the

Order Paper for today. It is related to the agenda with respect to the

Department of Health. It is Motion 1: The hon. the Minister of Health and

Community Services to ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act Respecting

Denturists. (Bill 60)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act Respecting Denturists. (Bill 60)

Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Health and

Community Services shall have leave to introduce said bill?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a

bill, "An Act Respecting Denturists," carried. (Bill 60)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the said bill be now read a

first time.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a first time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting Denturists. (Bill 60)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 60,

An Act Respecting Denturists, has now been read a

first time. When shall this bill be read a second time? Tomorrow?

MR. E. BYRNE: Later in the day.

MR. SPEAKER: Later in the day.

On motion, Bill 60 read a first time, ordered read a second time presently,

by leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 9, second reading of a bill,

An Act Respecting Dispensing Opticians.

(Bill 52)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 52,

An Act Respecting

Dispensing Opticians, be read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act Respecting Dispensing

Opticians." (Bill 52)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to rise and make a few comments concerning Bill 52,

An Act Respecting

Dispensing Opticians. I would like to simply say at the outset that this

particular group - and the purpose, I should say, I guess, of this particular

legislation is essentially identical to the points that were made and the issues

that were raised in the previous legislation.

Again, this particular act responds to the desire of dispensing opticians in

the Province to simply get in line with other groups, to be recognized as a

self-regulating body, to have a disciplinary procedure in place whereby again in

the unfortunate or unlikely event that discipline must be carried out against

one of its membership, at least a provision is in place and at least a code of

conduct is recognized and simply dealt with in the event that should arise.

Similar to the last piece of legislation, we have prepared

an act to govern

the practice of optical dispensing, again to reflect current policy directions

regarding the governance arrangements and discipline procedures for a number of

regulated occupations; this one, of course, dealing in particular with

dispensing opticians.

The new legislation again mirrors the changes to the arrangements and

procedures that were embodied in the Medical Act and, as my colleague the Member

for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi mentioned, also found in provisions of the

legislation governing pharmacists in the Province. This new legislation will

provide the Dispensing Opticians Board, Mr. Speaker, with the appropriate

investigative powers and authorities to investigate allocations of wrongdoing.

The new act will provide for disciplinary procedures that enable the Dispensing

Opticians Board to respond appropriately through the use of an alternate dispute

resolution technique or, where necessary, through formal disciplinary

proceedings.

Again, Mr. Speaker, suffice it to say that this truly recognizes another

professional health group in our Province that has expressed its own desire to

be in line with others, to recognize its ability to self-regulate, to recognize

its ability to self-discipline. The changes, in fact, that we are proposing

again are essentially identical to what was proposed in the previous debate.

Mr. Speaker, I now would welcome any further comments by colleagues opposite.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would just like to say a couple of words in relation to Bill 52. I thank

the minister for his explanation of the bill, and the fact that basically what

government is doing is bringing in line all of the professional associations

within the Province under the one regulatory, I guess, regime in terms of how

they deal with misconduct, how they deal with disciplinary matters within their

organizations or institutions, and what the process will be for that as outlined

in the bill.

Mr. Speaker, I think it was the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi who said

earlier that it is hard to imagine what some of the misconduct could be in some

of these occupational professions, and I guess dispensing opticians is certainly

one of those groups where you would have to consider what the actual misconduct

would be.

I have been wearing glasses, I think, since I was eleven years old, and I

have been going to opticians since that time to pick up my eye wear and, I can

tell you, I found them to be very, very helpful. I guess in this day and age

where a lot of people are opting for eye surgeries, corrective eye surgeries,

and all the rest of it, I tend to stick to my glasses, Mr. Speaker, because I

think there is a growing trend with style when it comes to glasses.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I think there is going to be a good job outlook

for dispensing opticians in the future simply because of those trends. I can

tell you, in Newfoundland and Labrador they are not without style when it comes

to eyewear. Some of these dispensers, I can tell you, are giving good advice out

there. They are treating their clients well, but, seriously, they are people and

a lot of them are trained in-house and on the job with the companies that they

work for. I think it is important to recognize that a lot of our seniors in the

Province, I guess, or most people, when they get at a more advanced age require

corrective lens in order to help them read or watch television or whatever the

case may be. It is important when they go into an optical company and they can

be serviced by very professional people who can explain to them and help them

and assist them in choosing lens, both contact lens and also eyeglasses, that

are going to be suitable for them.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important that any time we have a bill, even if it

is a bill that just looks at regulatory process, to recognize the work that some

of these professionals do out there. As I say, I have been a lot of years going

to optical companies and I have certainly found them to be very helpful and very

co-operative.

On the Coast of Labrador, it is not always easy to access an optical company,

I say, but a couple of times a year we do have visiting teams who come in and

see the people in my district and they bring a selection of eyewear with them

that you can choose from. So, the service is provided. It is provided by private

companies. They come in and they do, do that.

Now, in the greater metropolitan area of St. John's, Mr. Speaker, you have

a lot more selection of course to choose from. People notice things a lot,

because I remember being out at a Federation of Municipalities meeting when I

had a councillor from the great Town of Grand Falls-Windsor come up to me and

say: Where do you buy your eyeglasses, because we noticed that you always have a

different style of eyeglasses? I gave them the name of a company owned by a good

friend of mine out in CBS. Any of you who are looking for somewhere to go and

shop and get some really trendy, stylish glasses, they are out in the hon.

Member for Conception Bay South's District, Mr. Speaker, right on the corner

there to Upper Gullies where Mary Brown's is, in case you cannot find it. But

they have great dispensing opticians out there, too, I say to the hon. member,

in your district. No doubt, there is good service and good variety being

provided in the Province. So, I think you are going to see good job outlooks in

this profession as you see the trend and the styles starting to grow over the

years.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I note that the previous speaker, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse Clair,

at one point in her speech talked about dispensing Opposition. Although we are

talking about dispensing opticians, I know that the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair can dish it out as good as the next person when it comes to debate in

the House of Assembly. I do, in case anyone missed the point, want to note that

the hon. member has a very stylish and fancy new pair of glasses that those

watching at home, I am sure, noted. I noted them earlier today when she came in.

I have to say that they are very stylish and look good on her, and I

congratulate her on changing her style and keeping up with the style of glasses,

or eyewear, as she referred to them.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, this is another example of a profession that wishes to

ensure the public that they do have a self-regulating mechanism. They will

respond to complaints about service. I think, in this particular case, I can

think of examples where someone might be inclined to question, perhaps, the

service provided by a dispensing optician, whether it is through, you know,

negligence and not doing a proper job because they do give advice, not just on

style but also on the type of lenses that you might want to have; whether

bifocals are a good thing or a bad thing, or the quality of service is something

that can be challenged or the quality of the product that is delivered by a

dispensing optician because there are a lot of different products that are

available to the public. Some of them may be better than others. Some of them

may be more suitable for a particular individual than others, and people can be

led astray, either deliberately or through a lack of proper training and

adequate options being given to the public. In fact, there are circumstances

when - in the past, I know where dispensing opticians and the person providing

the eye examination were, in fact, the same person. There may be a bit of a

conflict of interest there in providing glasses for someone who doesn't

necessarily need them. I have heard stories and they are only anecdotal stories,

and perhaps we have all heard them in the past, the far past, of people going

around, particularly travelling around, and testing eyes in a community and

having a great deal of glasses being dispensed from a particular person,

depending on who the person was. Again, I am only saying that to say, that it is

possible there are circumstances where I could see a quality of service issue or

an issue where someone is questioning the advise they have been receiving from a

particular optician. In general, as the member has pointed out, there is a wide

variety and a lot of interest in style when it comes to eyewear these days, it

is not simply a choice between whether your horn-rim glasses will be black or

brown. You can have a lot of different choices, even ones that are almost

invisible, as I am hoping mine are, but I still get to see well.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, this is again an example of a group of people

providing a service to the public who recognize that the quality of service they

give is something that is open to challenge on a professional basis, and are

prepared to step up to the plate and ensure that the members of their profession

are meeting the standards of quality and service and ethics that are required in

providing this kind of near medical service. It is not exactly - obviously being

able to see better through optical devises, such as glasses, is extremely

important to people's well being and health in a general way, so it is a near

medical practice and profession. The work of examining and testing eyes is being

done by ophthalmologists as well as optometrists. Their role is in giving a

prescription and examining a person's eyes. A dispensing optician has an

important role in giving advise and helping people choose the right product for

their particular prescription that has been provided by an optometrist or an

ophthalmologist.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I support this legislation, I think it is very

positive.

MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services

speaks now on Bill 52, he will close the debate at second reading.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I thank my colleagues opposite for their comments and their support of

Bill 52. Again, it is clear that we are not really creating anything new here,

Mr. Speaker, other than recognizing the will of dispensing opticians in the

Province of having the ability to be a self-regulated group, a self-regulated

professional health group, and a group that wish to deal with their own internal

affairs in the event they should arise.

Mr. Speaker, I thank members opposite for their participation and I now move

second reading of Bill 52,

An Act Respecting Dispensing Opticians.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House that Bill 52,

An Act

Respecting Dispensing Opticians, be now read a second time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting Dispensing Opticians. (Bill 52)

MR. SPEAKER: Bill 52 has now been read a second time. When shall this

bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House?

MR. E. BYRNE: Later today, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Later in the afternoon session.

On motion, a bill, "An Act Respecting Dispensing Opticians," read a

second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently, by

leave. (Bill 52)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 10, second reading of a bill,

An Act Respecting The Registration And

Licensing Of Hearing Aid Practitioners. (Bill 53)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 53,

An Act Respecting The

Registration And Licensing Of Hearing Aid Practitioners be now read a second

time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act Respecting The Registration

And Licensing Of Hearing Aid Practitioners." (Bill 53)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise at second reading and speak to Bill 53,

An Act

Respecting The Registration And Licensing Of Hearing Aid Practitioners.

Again, my commentary will be similar and in keeping with what was said

earlier regarding Bill 51 and Bill 52. A few small technical changes and

differences in some of the terminology, Mr. Speaker. For example, in Bill 53 the

bill changes the name of licensed persons from dealers to practitioners. Also,

the new legislation will provide the Hearing Aid Practitioners Board as opposed

to the former name, or former title, the Hearing Aid Dealers Board. Obviously,

we are only dealing with semantics but, nevertheless, there is a technical

change in the terminology that is used.

The spirit of the legislation, Mr. Speaker, is essentially identical to what

was said earlier. We have a group of individuals, again, practicing a health

profession in the Province who wish, again, to be self-regulating and wish to

have a mechanism in place that will deal with disciplinary matters should they

arise.

It is important to point out - and I will continue to do this as we go

through these bills, Mr. Speaker - that these changes receive the support of the

professional group itself. They were engaged in these changes, they supported

these changes, and the fact that this is not legislation which is imposing a

particular direction against the will of anybody. In fact, this is legislation

that is in keeping with the movement towards a self-regulating feature in

essentially all of these professions, but again it is with the support and the

consent of the hearing aid practitioners throughout the Province.

Mr. Speaker, again the commentary is essentially the same as the previous

second readings this afternoon. At this time I would again allow my colleagues

opposite to participate to the extent that they feel is appropriate when, in

fact, we are dealing with the same principle and the same provision throughout.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise, no doubt, and speak to Bill 53,

An Act Respecting The

Registration And Licensing Of Hearing Aid Practitioners.

Mr. Speaker, again, as the minister has just outlined, this legislation is

regulatory and in place to bring all the professional associations in

Newfoundland and Labrador in line with the one structure that deals with issues

of misconduct or issues of a disciplinary matter that may exist within their

association or their professional group that they belong to.

Mr. Speaker, the bill also allows for members who are part of the hearing and

practitioners association to be able to deal with these issues in a very

transparent manner to ensure that the outcome of any review of misconduct is

outlined to the public and to the minister. Also, I guess, they are able to do

it in a very self-governing kind of way, so that is important for these

professional associations to be able to do that.

Mr. Speaker, people who work with the hearing impaired in our Province, I

realize that sometimes they must have a difficult job. I know a number of people

who are hearing impaired. I actually have a friend who has been hearing impaired

since the day of her birth, and we have been friends for a very long time. I

know the challenges that she has in her life, in dealing with this disability,

and the challenges she has had as a single woman, as a family woman, a married

woman now with two children, and dealing with the school system, in dealing with

our health care system, in dealing with the community in general. I have a great

deal of respect and admiration for her and for all people who deal with hearing

impairment, because hearing impairment is often a disability that we do not see,

and we are a society that tends to lend more support or more compassion towards

those disabilities that are more visible than those that are invisible. I can

tell you, it is a disability of significance and it needs to be able to have the

support mechanisms in our society to deal with it. Mr. Speaker, sometimes, when

we are a society that often tends to believe what we see and not what we hear,

we need to stop and think about that.

The other thing that I find with hearing impairment is that, while it is a

disability that is growing, probably, in an aging population, it is not

restricted to an aging population. It affects all kinds of people in our

society. I talked about a friend of mine just recently that I had for a lifetime

who has had a hearing disability.

I also notice in our school system, for example, lots of times, because there

are children who have hearing impairments, they are sometimes looked at as not

being interested in the curriculum that is being taught them, or not paying the

attention they should be paying to subject matters - or even people we meet in

our communities or in our lives sometimes may not respond to us in the way that

we expect them to. Mr. Speaker, lots of times these are people who are suffering

from a disability of hearing impairment and, because it is not seen, it is not

always being considered, and that is unfair.

I know of a number of situations of children in our school system over the

years, even when I was in school myself, children who were not necessarily doing

well in the classroom or in subject areas, and once they were taken for medical

treatment and checked out at a doctor's office and so on you realize that a

lot of those children had a problem with hearing what was being said, and

therefore that was the initial problem that they were dealing with.

Mr. Speaker, anyone who has a problem with hearing, who thinks they might

have a problem with hearing, do not be afraid to have it checked out, and

certainly do not be afraid to speak up; because, if you cannot hear something

and you need to ask that it be repeated, you should definitely do that.

Mr. Speaker, I think that the Association of Hearing Aid Practitioners in

this Province is an important association in our society as they support the

hearing impaired. Mr. Speaker, it is like every association of professional

people; there are always changing technologies and services, and people need to

be made aware of what they are. I am sure there have been wonderfully enhanced

and new discoveries for people who experience hearing loss, the kind of

technologies and stuff that are available to them, so we need to encourage

associations like that to ensure that they are getting their messages out there

and that people know what is available to them.

Mr. Speaker, I also think that any people in our Province who suffer from

hearing impairment, they should be supported by our provincial health care

system. I know that they are now, and I hope they will continue to be, because

if there is a person that has any hope at all in correcting their hearing or

improving their hearing with any new medical technology or devices that are

available to them now, they should have access to them and not be limited

because of their fiscal ability to be able to afford or to pay for those kinds

of services.

I am glad that we live in a Province that does provide supports for those

kinds of things, and I hope will continue to provide supports and assist people

who require those kinds of medical devices and technologies to help them in

their everyday life.

Mr. Speaker, just with those few words I would conclude by saying that I

support Bill 53, that the minister just brought forward. I thank him for the

comments and the description of the bill that he has outlined earlier. I think

it is important that this group be added with the other professional groups in

the Province in streamlining the regulatory legislation under which they

operate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to see this legislation before the House to provide for not only

registration but licensing of hearing aid practitioners, as well as a discipline

procedure as well.

The principles behind all of this legislation are similar, but each of them

has their own separate circumstances and, in the case of hearing aid

practitioners and people who are hearing impaired, I think it is extremely

important that there be a professional set of standards in dealing with matters

of this nature. In many cases, you might be dealing with a very vulnerable

population of people who have hearing problems and just do not know. They do not

know what is on the market; they do not know what is available to them; they do

not know whether something is going to be helpful or not. To have standards and

assurance that if there is a problem you can go to a body to complain and have

an investigation carried out, I think, is an important thing.

I have some acquaintance with hearing impairment, Mr. Speaker. My own mother,

I think, was probably the first person to have a hearing aid in Newfoundland and

Labrador, she told us when she was alive. She had a hearing aid which she used

when she went to work in one of the banks because she had a hearing impairment

due to some childhood illness that required the use of a hearing aid. I think I,

myself, probably suffered some hearing damage working in Toronto, down in a

manhole with a jackhammer and no hearing protection. It was either that or

standing too close to a speaker at a high school dance or something, but one of

these things, because these things cause damage to your ears and may, at some

point, require some sort of adjustment through the use of a hearing device.

There was one time a couple of years ago, Mr. Speaker, that three or four

members of this House had hearing aid devices which they used to hear what was

going on across the aisles during Question Period or other times during debate.

So, it is quite common for there to be people with hearing impairment, whether a

result of genetic reasons or through some sort of illness or through some sort

of mechanical means.

It is important that those who are engaged in the business, and I guess it is

a business in a way, of providing hearing aids - the previous act was called the

Hearing Aid Dealers legislation. We are now calling them practitioners, giving

them a certain status and standing. I think it is fair enough, because, if

somebody has a problem of this nature and responds to that problem by going to a

hearing aid dispenser, they are not just looking for a hearing aid. They are

looking for advice. They are looking for advice as to what might work. If there

is a temptation to oversell something, saying, well, we have this $200 device or

we have this $1,400 device, or this $1,800 device, people are making decisions

as to whether they will choose a particular hearing aid device based on the

advice that they receive from a hearing aid practitioner, and that advice could

mean the difference between spending $500 or $2,500, depending on what is

available, so there is a fair amount of trust involved. I say that in all

seriousness. When someone goes to a hearing aid practitioner, they are saying:

What is it that I really need? Do I need this or do I need that, or will this

get me through my needs? A lot of people, as we know in this Province, do not

have the luxury of being able to make decisions of this nature without great

financial sacrifice and great financial involvement from their families or for

themselves. So, a decision of that nature can be extremely important to an

individual. I think it is important that we have some means of raising the

standards of a group of people who are providing this. It is not something that

- you know, it is not a salesman job. If you are a hearing aid practitioner, you

are not just a salesperson trying to sell the latest model or the most expensive

model or the one that has the greatest markup and advantage to you as an

individual.

I think this is an area, again, where we are dealing with people who may be

vulnerable based on their condition or their age and, as indicated, it is not

always a function of increased age that people might have a need for a hearing

aid but, to some extent, people's hearing can decrease over time or get worse

to the point that they may need a hearing aid device. So, there is a potential

there for abuse, and the idea of having a body to which you can go to complain

is a useful concept because it does provide someone with - first of all, someone

who is engaged in the practice of supplying hearing aids knows and understands

that there are standards and that there is a body to which they would have to

respond. As I say, it is not just a sales job trying to sell a device. It is a

job where you are providing advice to individuals who are in need of some sort

of mechanical aid to allow them to hear better.

Sometimes it is not just a question of hearing better, it is a question of

being able to hear what you want to hear, as opposed to hearing so many other

things as well. I think there is a lot of sophistication out there that was not

there twenty years ago, thirty years ago, or sixty or seventy years ago when my

mother got a hearing aid device. There has been a lot of successful developments

in audio technology, and it does require a fair degree of expertise, but the

important thing here, if someone is going to a hearing aid practitioner there is

a level of trust there in terms of the advice they receive as to what is the

best device for them, within their means, that is going to do the best job for

them. Individuals, whether you call them consumers or call them patients, or

whatever you call them, they are in need of a high degree of ethical

responsibility from a hearing aid practitioner.

I hope, Mr. Speaker, that this bill will go some way in increasing the status

of people who are in the profession and, at the same time, provide a level of

ethical awareness and practice that would make the public better protected as a

result of this kind of legislation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

If the hon. Minister of Health and Community Services speaks now on Bill 53,

An Act Respecting The Registration And Licensing Of Hearing Aid Practitioners,

he will now close the debate.

The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I thank my two colleagues opposite, my critic and the Member for

Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, for their comments, and, again, their support of Bill

53,

An Act Respecting The Registration And Licensing Of Hearing Aid

Practitioners.

At this time, Mr. Speaker, I move second reading of Bill 53.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Is it the pleasure of the House that the said bill be now read a second time?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

CLERK: A bill,

An Act Respecting The Registration And Licensing Of

Hearing Aid Practitioners. (Bill 53)

MR. SPEAKER: This bill has now been read a second time. When shall this

bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House?

MR. E. BYRNE: Later today.

MR. SPEAKER: Later today.

On motion, a bill, "An Act Respecting The Registration And Licensing Of

Hearing Aid Practitioners," read a second time, ordered referred to a

Committee of the Whole House presently, by leave. (Bill 53)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Order 11, second reading of a bill,

An Act Respecting The Licensure Of

Practical Nurses. (Bill 54)

MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Bill 54,

An Act Respecting The

Licensure Of Practical Nurses, be now read a second time.

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act Respecting The Licensure Of

Practical Nurses." (Bill 54)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you again, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to rise at second reading to introduce Bill 54,

An Act

Respecting The Licensure Of Practical Nurses. In fact, this particular piece of

legislation repeals a former piece of legislation simply called the Licensed

Practical Nurses Act. So, this is new legislation but, again, it is new

legislation that is in keeping with the theme of all of these bills that are

being discussed today, the theme of self-governance and the theme and ability of

a group to discipline their own membership in the event that need arises.

Mr. Speaker, one thing interesting is that, like the doctors, the governing

body and this legislation will provide for a College of Licensed Practical

Nurses. The previous terminology used was the Council of Licensed Practical

Nurses. However, for the purposes of this particular legislation, practical

nurses in the Province will be governed by a professional organization simply

referred to as the College of LPNs.

Mr. Speaker, the purpose and the intention of this legislation is to

streamline governance to allow the LPNs who practice - so well, I might add, in

our Province - catering to the needs of those who require care and attention.

This particular group will now be governed by this new piece of legislation.

They will be self-governed. They will again, as in the case of the other

examples, be in a position to deal with their own affairs as they arise.

Essentially, what is happening in this legislation, again like the others, is

that the group themselves will put on their representative board their own

representatives selected by the group themselves. That is clearly what makes

them a self-governing body. They select, in their own manner, a group of

individuals who will govern the affairs of, in this case, the Licensed Practical

Nurses in the Province.

Mr. Speaker, formerly referred to as nursing assistants, we all know of the

great value of the work that is done in our hospitals, in our homes, in our

long-term care facilities, in our community care facilities, home support work,

whatever. These individuals clearly demonstrate what it is, it seems to me, to

be a true health care professional. It is through their dedication, hard work

and energy that so many people in this Province can say that the care that they

received is superlative. It is nothing short of ideal, because so many people -

and I hear it throughout. As I go into health care facilities, as I visit

long-term care facilities, our senior citizens' homes, we always hear the

great work of our health care professionals, whether it is our physicians, our

nurses or, in this case, our LPNs. The work that they do is a true testament to

their education, to their dedication, and to their value in ensuring that our

seniors, our sick, our ill are provided with the best care and attention as they

go through that particular experience in their lives.

Mr. Speaker, there is very little to add, I guess, other than the fact that

it is clear what we are doing by the introducing of this legislation. It is to

provide and streamline the affairs of LPNs throughout our Province. On that

particular note, I will again allow my colleagues opposite to join in and to

share a few words, hopefully, in support of this particular piece of

legislation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to rise and say a few words to Bill 54,

An Act Respecting The

Licensure Of Practical Nurses in our Province.

Mr. Speaker, it is a profession that, no doubt, I have a great deal of

respect for, having come from a family with a sister who works as an LPN, and

actually works right here in the city as an LPN. It is a profession that I know

a little bit about and I certainly respect and admire the work that they do in

our health care system.

Mr. Speaker, LPNs, in my opinion, not only are they a key stakeholder in our

whole health care system, but I think they have a greater role that can be

played. I think there is a greater role that they can play in the overall

delivery of health care in Newfoundland and Labrador, and I have always said

that. Many of these people are trained, well educated, professional people who

have never been able to perform to the full scope of their training and

education within our health care system.

Mr. Speaker, I think this is something that the Council for Licensed

Practical Nurses in the Province has raised on a number of occasions, and

continues to raise on behalf of their membership. They feel, Mr. Speaker, that

there is more that they could do. There is more that they can be contributing as

health care professionals in our field, in our health care system, our

institutions, our hospitals, and they feel that there is a greater role and a

more substantial role that they can play.

Mr. Speaker, I know personally, first-hand, that many of these individuals

work tirelessly on a day-to-day basis, especially within our long-term care

institutions throughout the Province where they provide care to a lot of the

elderly people, elderly residents in Newfoundland and Labrador, and they do a

tremendous job at that. Quite often, Mr. Speaker, they do their job with limited

resources, without a great deal of support, sometimes, from other sectors. I

think they are to be admired for the work that they do.

I know that last year, when they were out negotiating, renegotiating their

contract under NAPE, LPNs, I really felt bad for them, Mr. Speaker, because I

felt that they were a group that were deserving of wage increases. I really did.

Not that I did not feel that anyone else was, but because I was, I think, closer

to the profession, understood the scope of the work that they do on a day-to-day

basis, I really felt that they should have had a contract that would have

allowed them to see some wage increase; because, you know, for the role that

they play, and how much they contribute to the health care system in this

Province, they are underpaid and undervalued, in my opinion, for the work that

they do.

I think there was more that could have been done, and I know that many of

them went away very disappointed; because, when you look at physicians in the

Province, when you look at nurses in the Province, when you look at other health

care professionals, most of them are paid - all of them, I would say, are paid -

at a much higher wage level, at a much higher scale, than LPNs. I think they

still perform admirably in their profession, and I think they still play a

valuable role within the health care system.

Mr. Speaker, they have challenges. They will be the first to tell you they

have a tremendous number of challenges, and I think one of the biggest

challenges is going to be for government because, out of the 2,900 who work as

LPNs in the Province - just think about that. That is a lot of people employed

as licensed practical nurses in our Province, almost 3,000 individuals working

in that profession. They already know that the number of LPNs who are retiring

on an annual basis is a growing number. They will tell you that already in 2003,

for example, there were fifty-four LPNs retired out of the system, but by the

time we get to the year 2007 we will have 106 LPNs who will retire in our health

care system.

Mr. Speaker, that is a significant number of professionals in that one

occupational field who will exit the workforce, and we have to be prepared for

that, so we have to ensure that there is appropriate enrollment in the licensed

practical nursing program in our colleges and institutions. We need to make sure

that the course is being made available to as large a number of people

throughout the Province as we possibly can, and we have to encourage people into

that profession because we know ourselves, today, that by 2007 we will have over

100 LPNs exiting the system on a retirement basis annually. We need to make sure

those jobs are going to be filled.

What we have today is the Council for Licensed Practical Nurses who are

already out there saying: Develop these training programs, develop these

modules, so that some of the LPNs we currently have working in the system can

take advantage of that additional educational opportunity, so they can, as we

say in most professions, upgrade their skill level or upgrade th