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May 9, 2005

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-May-09 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Monday 9 May 2005 Lundi 9 mai 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

NURSES

ACHIEVEMENTS OF

THUNDER BAY RESIDENTS

SCHOOL CLOSURES

HOSPITAL FUNDING

SCHOOL TRANSPORTATION FUNDING

HOCKEY

FABRY DISEASE

VETERANS

NURSES

BOARD OF INTERNAL ECONOMY

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES /

POLITIQUES FISCALES

FÉDÉRALES-PROVINCIALES

NURSES

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

NURSES

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

NURSES

VISITORS

HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL DAY

ORAL QUESTIONS

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

PRIVATIZATION OF PUBLIC SERVICES

CHILDREN'S SERVICES

ONTARIO BUDGET

ENVIRONMENTAL LEGISLATION

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

REFINERY CLOSURE

ONTARIO ECONOMY

STUDENT LITERACY

ENERGY CONSERVATION

GROW BONDS PROGRAM

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

ANIMAL PROTECTION

SPORT FISHING

HIGHWAY INTERCHANGE

PETITIONS

HEALTH CARE

CREDIT VALLEY HOSPITAL

ANTI-SMOKING LEGISLATION

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

CREDIT VALLEY HOSPITAL

TAXATION

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ELECTION STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES ÉLECTIONS

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

NURSES

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): It is my pleasure and privilege to rise today to pay respect to Nursing Week in Ontario. This morning I met with

three very dedicated nurses from my riding of Durham who serve at Lakeridge Health in Oshawa. My constituent Kim Cearns, a registered nurse, is the policy and political action officer with the

Durham-Northumberland

chapter of the RNAO. Also in attendance were RNs Laurie Grills and Jackie Doiron. They are caring and professional nurses.

We also spoke about the vital role of nurses in the field of mental health services. Because of the stigma attached to mental illness, this is not always a very

high-profile area; some would say it's the silent health issue. However, mental illness affects society at many levels, including the individuals who have been diagnosed, their friends, family and

co-workers. One in four is directly affected. The nurses pointed out that four of five people in Ontario are affected at some level by mental illness.

Our meeting this morning was a reminder of the far-reaching impact of the work done by Ontario's nurses in all aspects of health and wellness. Citizens of Durham

riding are proud of the care and professionalism shown daily by nurses in our communities across Ontario. They are trusted, vital professionals who are concerned about their patients.

These nurses work at Lakeridge Health, where the Ontario Ministry of Health is failing to fund mental health adequately.

ACHIEVEMENTS OF

THUNDER BAY RESIDENTS

Mr. Bill Mauro (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): I would like to announce today in the Ontario Legislature that the residents of my riding of Thunder

Bay-Atikokan have great reason to celebrate the accomplishments of a few of its residents. Recently, not one but two significant athletic achievements were accomplished.

The first was by Hugh Dale-Harris, a 33-year-old Thunder Bay teacher and dogsledder, who on April 27, along with a team of explorers, mushed his way to reach the

North Pole in just 37 days, setting a world record by coming in several hours earlier than a disputed record set in 1909 by Robert Peary's expedition.

The team left Cape Columbia in northern Nunavut on March 21, hoping to retrace Peary's route to discover the North Pole. After reaching the pole, the explorers

raised the Canadian, US, Nunavut, British and South African flags.

The second and no less glorious recent achievement was by the Thunder Bay Bombers men's senior hockey team. On April 24, ex-Lakehead University goaltender Cory

McEachran backstopped the Thunder Bay Bombers in a 4-3 overtime win for the Allan Cup championship game over the Montmagny Sentinelles in Lloydminster, Saskatchewan. Derek Levanen scored the

overtime goal. Other ex-Lakehead players included Jeff Adduono, Craig Priestlay, Mike Jacobsen, Kevin Hoogsteen and Barry McKinlay. This achievement is made even more remarkable by the fact that

just a few weeks earlier this team was not yet formed nor had a league to play in.

This is the ninth Allan Cup championship for Thunder Bay area hockey teams. Thunder Bay has enjoyed a long and glorious history of winning the cup, the most

recent team being the Thunder Bay Twins in 1989.

To both Hugh Dale-Harris and his family and the Thunder Bay Bombers hockey team, I would like to recognize you today in this Legislature, and would add that the

citizens of Thunder Bay also congratulate you for honouring your hometown.

SCHOOL CLOSURES

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I rise today to recognize the value and importance of small schools in Ontario. Last year, 44 schools in

Ontario were closed by the McGuinty Liberal government. This June, 36 more schools are slated to close. There are at least 40 schools under review for closing, with more to be added by the end of

May. These closings will affect a total of 69,949 -- 70,000 -- students. How can this possibly serve to meet the needs of these students?

Today, the minister has received a letter from Sarah Doub, a very articulate grade 12 student at Glencoe District High School in London. This school has received

an 87% success rate on the grade 10 literacy test -- 6% above the Thames Valley board average and 5% above the provincial average. Sarah's letter attests to the tremendous value provided by small

schools, which give support for every student and encourage active community engagement.

Small schools work. School boards need to be provided with a new funding formula that recognizes the value and importance of small schools. Many parents whose

children attend small schools are anxiously waiting for you to keep your promise. It's time to change the Conservative funding formula.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Ms. Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): The generosity and benevolence of the Hamilton community knows no bounds. I rise today in the House to

acknowledge that Hamilton Health Sciences has raised over $71 million in funding from various donors across our great city.

One of our corporate leaders, Dofasco, who states, "Our product is steel, our strength is people and our home is Hamilton," has made the largest contribution yet

to the hospital's campaign. We in Hamilton West would like to applaud Dofasco's donation of $2.5 million that has been generously given so far to Hamilton's hospitals. We might add a fourth line to

Dofasco's advertising, which might say, "Our character is our community."

The hospital community in Hamilton announced its campaign on April 13, 2005, with the goal of raising $100 million from the community. The provincial government

will raise that total to $250 million.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the donors to Hamilton's medical community. I would like to thank the Ontario government for its commitment to

improving our health care. Our community will be putting their funding to good use. Together, we can all make a difference.

SCHOOL TRANSPORTATION FUNDING

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): On Friday, my office in Pembroke was visited by a group of school bus operators in Renfrew

county. They are very upset with this Minister of Education, who has committed on a number of occasions to looking at, reviewing, adjusting and changing this funding formula that would respect what

is happening in rural Ontario with regard to school transportation.

With gasoline and insurance costs escalating far faster than any of their incomes are going up, they simply have their backs to the wall. As a matter of fact,

transportation committee chairman Norm Hazelwood has as much as said that this is a crisis situation that must be addressed by the Minister of Education. They are among the lowest-paid and oldest

fleets in the province.

Mr. Speaker, I wrote a letter to the Minister of Education on December 10, imploring him to get involved in this because it was reaching a crisis situation. Do

you know what the response was? Nothing. Absolutely nothing; no reply. I wrote again on April 20; no reply. But I'm not surprised, because each of these operators has also told me that the minister

has not responded to their letters at all.

The minister has been bragging about achieving peace in the classroom, and I commend him for doing so. However, if you have no children in the classroom, it's

not too hard to have peace. If we don't do something about school transportation in rural Ontario, that is exactly what we will have: no one to get our children to and from school safely.

HOCKEY

Ms. Deborah Matthews (London North Centre): Last week in front of this Legislative Building, the London members -- Chris Bentley, Khalil Ramal,

Steve Peters, John Wilkinson and myself -- challenged the Ottawa members -- Premier Dalton McGuinty, Richard Patten, Jim Watson, Madeleine Meilleur, Phil McNeely and, no stranger to hockey,

Jean-Marc Lalonde -- on who is going to win the championship of the Ontario Hockey League.

We're putting up London's favourite product, Labatt beer; they're putting up Ottawa's favourite product, the legendary beaver tails. You see, the London Knights

are challenging the Ottawa 67's for the OHL championship. This is sure to be a great series. Both teams are fighting hard, and the series is tied at one apiece.

The London Knights have captured the hearts of the city of London. They've rejuvenated the downtown core and set the city ablaze in an unbelievable year. The

Knights have had an impressive season by anyone's standards. They set a record of 31 consecutive games without a loss. They finished first in the league in total points, total wins, most goals for,

fewest goals against. They swept the Windsor playoff series and the Guelph playoff series. They continued their domination over Kitchener in the last round, and they are going to wipe the floor

with Ottawa.

I am very proud to stand behind the London Knights, not only for their amazing regular season and their outstanding playoff performance, but also for their

outreach to the community and to the province. I want to congratulate the players, coaches, trainers and support staff for this tremendous accomplishment. Soon we will have the league championship;

then on to the Memorial Cup. Go, Knights, go. I can't wait to taste those beaver tails.

FABRY DISEASE

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): I rise today to share with members of this House an e-mail from Darren Nesbit, a desperate

28-year-old Fabry patient from Sarnia who is being denied treatment by this Liberal government.

Darren writes, "Hi. It's Darren Nesbit, just writing to let you know I haven't had a treatment in a month and three days. My body needs treatment now; my

kidneys, head and stomach hurt. I have no energy in my body to do any normal things in life. Does anyone there know how this must feel for us?

"I have been in contact with the drug company, the hospital" and the health ministry. "They all have the same answer for me: Sorry, we can't help you live! My

question is this: If Canada is a great country with a health care system, why do 40 different countries around the world pay for treatment for their Fabry's patients and we don't here?"

He ends by saying, "Please help us to continue to live. This issue is not about the Liberals, PC or NDP; it's about humans helping other humans to live. That's

what I thought it was to be Canadian!"

Minister Smitherman, listen to the desperate pleas of Darren Nesbit, Rick Sgroi, Bill Taylor, Carolyn Auger, Julia Strauss and others. I beseech you, Minister:

Show compassion and provide permanent funding for enzyme replacement therapy, as do 40 other countries around the world.

VETERANS

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): Yesterday was a day of great significance, not just for those living in Ontario, but for

citizens of all nations. While VE Day celebrates victory in Europe, what it symbolizes is the victory of freedom over tyranny and the great sacrifices that were paid to make that victory

possible.

The SD&G Highlanders, headquartered in my riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, played a significant role in this great conflict. They left the safety

of their homes in Canada to fight for a cause they knew to be just. One of their accomplishments was the liberation of the Dutch town of Zutphen. Eleven members of the regiment paid the ultimate

price to free this town. In a ceremony that the Highlanders attended this past week in Holland, the people of Zutphen named 10 streets and one bridge in a new subdivision in remembrance of these

men.

The people of Holland have never forgotten the lengths our brave soldiers were willing to go in defence of their freedom. They continue to teach their children

about the role Canadians played in the liberation of their country. They continue to honour the men and women who travelled so far and risked so much for complete strangers, because the idea of

standing by while others suffered was unthinkable to them.

As the Dutch continue to honour our veterans, so must we remember their sacrifices and recognize that our freedom was built on the foundation of their actions.

Nor can we forget what made these sacrifices necessary. We must tell our children about the horrors that can happen when hatred is made an institution. We must join with our brothers and sisters

the world over and swear that we will never allow such atrocities to happen again.

In this Year of the Veteran, there is no greater tribute we can pay our veterans than to preserve and promote the peace for which they fought.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Could I have a bit of quiet, please? I'm not able to hear the statements.

NURSES

Ms. Kathleen O. Wynne (Don Valley West): Today I'd like to take the opportunity to recognize one of the most honourable professions in our

province. As you know, this week is Nursing Week and I'd like to highlight some of the achievements our government is making to strengthen the nursing profession around the province.

This government has created 3,052 new full-time nursing positions. In my riding alone, we've invested $1.37 million at Sunnybrook and Women's hospital, which has

created 22 new full-time nursing positions. When we passed Bill 8, legislation that the Conservative Party and John Tory did not support, our government installed accountability agreements that

will ensure the protection of nursing jobs in a way that's never been done before.

We've also invested $60 million for 11,000 bed lifts in hospitals and long-term-care homes to improve the working conditions for nurses. We've directed hospitals

to make significant progress toward a 70% full-time nursing percentage. We've provided $34.8 million to create graduate nursing positions, mentoring relationships, a late-career nursing strategy

and to provide clinical simulation equipment. We're doubling the number of education spaces for nurse practitioners, from 75 to 150.

But there's something we're not doing. We're not comparing nurses to Hula Hoops. That is what the previous government did while they fired thousands of nurses at

a cost of $400 million and then spent hundreds of millions more in a vain attempt to hire them back. We're treating nurses with the respect and dignity they deserve, and we'll continue to ensure

that Ontarians receive the highest quality of health care in Canada.

BOARD OF INTERNAL ECONOMY

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): I beg to inform the House that I have laid upon the table a copy of an order in council appointing Elizabeth

Witmer, MPP, as a commissioner to the Board of Internal Economy, appointed by the caucus of the official opposition, in the place of John R. Baird, MPP.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

Ms. Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on finance and economic affairs and move its

adoption.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Mr. Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following bill, as amended:

Bill 164,

An Act to rename and amend the Tobacco Control Act, 1994, repeal the Smoking in the Workplace Act and make complementary amendments to other

Acts / Projet de loi 164, Loi visant à modifier le

titre et la teneur de la Loi de 1994 sur la réglementation de l'usage du tabac, à abroger la Loi limitant l'usage du tabac

dans les lieux de travail et à apporter des modifications complémentaires à d'autres lois.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

The bill is therefore ordered for third reading.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): I move that pursuant to standing order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45

p.m. till 9:30 p.m. on Monday, May 9, 2005, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those against, please say "nay."

I think the ayes have it.

Call in the members. There will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1350 to 1355.

The Speaker: All those in favour, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arnott, Ted

Arthurs, Wayne

Baird, John R.

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Broten, Laurel C.

Brownell, Jim

Bryant, Michael

Cansfield, Donna H.

Caplan, David

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Dunlop, Garfield

Flaherty, Jim

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Gerretsen, John

Hardeman, Ernie

Jackson, Cameron

Klees, Frank

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McGuinty, Dalton

McMeekin, Ted

Miller, Norm

Mitchell, Carol

O'Toole, John

Orazietti, David

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Patten, Richard

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Runciman, Robert W.

Ruprecht, Tony

Scott, Laurie

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Takhar, Harinder S.

Tory, John

Watson, Jim

Wilkinson, John

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those against, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Bisson, Gilles

Horwath, Andrea

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Murdoch, Bill

Prue, Michael

Yakabuski, John

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 65; the nays are 8.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES /

POLITIQUES FISCALES

FÉDÉRALES-PROVINCIALES

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I rise to inform this House and the people of Ontario of developments

in Ontario's campaign for fairness, our campaign to narrow the $23-billion gap.

This weekend, I met with the Prime Minister. Working together, we succeeded in making what I believe is some real progress for Ontarians. Clearly there is more

to be done. Unfairness remains in some key areas, and our campaign will continue. But let me take a moment to detail what we accomplished this weekend and what it means, most importantly, for the

people of Ontario.

It means new hope for new Canadians, who will now get more of the support they need, from the settlement services they need at first to the job training they

need to help our economy finish in first place.

It means stronger supports for unemployed workers who want to upgrade their skills. It means a more efficient, effective system of tax collection for Ontario

businesses.

It means additional funds for post-secondary education and recognition of the importance of higher education in Ontario and Canada.

And it means a fairer deal for Ontarians when it comes to infrastructure. In other words, Ontario just got stronger, and that means Canada just got better.

I want to thank the Prime Minister in particular for working with me on two specific areas: immigration and labour. For at least the past decade, Ontario

governments of various stripes have tried to ensure fairness for Ontario by seeking a new immigration funding arrangement and a new labour market development agreement with the federal government.

Unfairness for Ontarians when it came to immigration funding had been in place since 1990. Unfairness for Ontarians when it comes to training funding had been in place since 1995. What previous

governments have sought, this weekend we have achieved.

On immigration, we have reached a breakthrough agreement on settlement, language training and employment assistance for immigrants, an agreement that will see

funding for these services in Ontario double next year and quadruple over five years. Under this agreement, average annual spending on settlement services in Ontario will rise from $819 to

approximately $3,400 per immigrant. This goes a long way toward addressing the unfairness that had seen our province receive 57% of new immigrants but only 34% of national funding. It also achieves

what amounts to parity with our neighbours in Quebec, which receives $3,806 per immigrant, the difference being accounted for in how Quebec assumes responsibility for administrative costs,

whereas

in Ontario the federal government will continue to assume that responsibility.

On job training, a new labour market development agreement, to be concluded within 30 days, includes a rise in funding for the training of unemployed people in

Ontario, an increase that brings us for the first time to the national average.

To streamline the tax system for business, we have achieved agreement to create a single administration of corporate income tax in Ontario at the federal

level.

On higher education the agreement provides $1.55 billion over the next five years.

Mais ce qui est le plus important, c'est que le gouvernement fédéral a finalement accepté notre argument qu'en principe, l'Ontario devrait

recevoir une portion per capita de tout nouveau financement alloué à l'éducation postsecondaire.

What is most significant is the fact that the federal government has finally agreed with our contention that as a matter of fundamental principle, Ontario

should receive a per capita share of all new funding for post-secondary education. This is a big step toward fairness.

On infrastructure, we received a recognition that Ontario has fallen behind when it comes to funding, and a commitment for $300 million in infrastructure

funding over the final three years of this agreement.

Taken in total, this is progress we can all be proud of. But more work, as I said earlier, remains to be done, which is why I am pleased that the Prime

Minister has agreed that the two of us will meet again to discuss what has come to be known as the $23-billion gap.

I am particularly interested, for example, in addressing the lack of movement when it comes to Canada health transfers to Ontario.

Whereas the other provinces

continue to receive $941 per person for CHT and CST, Ontario only receives $857 per person. This difference translates into a shortfall of over $1 billion for Ontario. Just as we worked with all

parties in this House on this non-partisan issue of fairness, we are willing to work with the various parties in the House of Commons. I will be meeting with the Leader of the Opposition and will

be happy to meet with the leader of the federal NDP, should he request such a meeting.

I'm proud of what we have achieved and how we have achieved it. I don't want to enlarge our success this weekend beyond what it is, but neither should we

minimize it. We have made real progress. We have taken the first step. After the first step comes a second step; after the second step comes a third step and so on. What Ontarians are counting on

is progress, and there's no doubt about it: We are making real progress. We have approached this issue in the best tradition of our province by making a case based on the facts, founded in

fairness, respectful of our history and devoid of histrionics.

I'm proud most of all of how Ontarians continue to work together as one on this issue. I want to thank the leaders of the opposition and the members opposite

for supporting an all-party resolution on this issue. I can tell you that having that support behind me made a big difference. The unity that started here has extended to every corner of our

province. Our campaign has been endorsed by the Ontario Medical Association, the Ontario Hospital Association, the Registered Nurses' Association of Ontario, the Council of Ontario Universities,

the Association of Municipalities of Ontario and the Ontario Chamber of Commerce, to name just a few. Our numbers have been backed up by leading economists, including studies from the TD Bank and

CIBC World Markets.

Nous avons fait des progrès parce que nous avons parlé d'une voix unie. Nous allons continuer de faire des progrès si nous continuons à

agir de cette façon.

We've made progress because we have spoken as one. We will continue to make progress if we continue to speak as one.

There's one more thing I want to say, because it bears repeating. Ontarians are proud Canadians. No one identifies more closely with a nation as a whole than

do the people of this province.

We have been commissioned by history to play a leading role in Confederation, to help ensure fairness from coast to coast to coast, and we will continue to

play that role. But to share wealth, we must be able to create it in the first place, and the best way to do that in the knowledge-based economy of this century is to invest in our people.

There's more work to do to narrow the gap further so we can help our people go farther. I'm not satisfied but I am pleased -- pleased to report that we've made

real progress, pleased because Ontario just got a little bit stronger, and that means our country did too.

NURSES

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): That's what I call a tough act to follow.

I rise in my place today to remind my colleagues in this House that today marks the start of National Nursing Week. It is an opportunity for us all to reflect

on and to give thanks for the extraordinary contribution that nurses make in our society. It's something that I and others have said many times, but it always bears repeating: Nurses are the heart

and soul of health care. They are often the people with whom we have first contact when we have a health problem. They are very often the people with whom we have the most contact when receiving

treatment for that problem. Nurses do a job that is frequently hard, usually stressful and always demanding. They do it with a compassion and a grace that are a credit to them and to their

profession.

Our government shares a vision with Ontarians of a health care system that will help people stay healthier, give them great care when they get sick and be

there for their children and grandchildren. I can tell you that nurses have a critical role to play in our plan to make that vision a reality. Quite simply, we cannot do it without them. Not only

that; we need more of them, and more nurses are precisely what we have begun to deliver. In all, last year we funded 3,052 new full-time nursing positions in our hospitals, in our long-term-care

homes and in home and community care. Already 2,402 of these have been created, with another 650 funded and in the process of being created. We have also invested heavily in better education and

professional opportunities for our nurses, as well as safer working conditions.

We are making this province the best place in Canada in which to work as a nurse, from mentorship programs to initiatives to provide late-career nurses with

less physically demanding roles to keep them working longer; from investing $10 million a year for continuing education programs which will ensure that nurses will have the knowledge and skills

they need to succeed in a very, very demanding profession to another $10 million over four years to the nursing faculty fund to ensure we have the educators to impart that knowledge and those

skills; from investing $60 million for bed lifts in all our hospitals and long-term-care homes to more than $11 million on safer needles and medical equipment -- all to reduce the risk of

on-the-job injuries. In short, we're working very hard to make the lives of nurses better and the jobs of nurses safer and more satisfying.

We are also working very hard to bring nurses more fully into our health care system to make the best use of their skills, their knowledge and their

dedication. The 55 family health teams we announced last month are a prime example of how we're doing that, while at the same time increasing access to nurses and doctors. These family health

teams, as we call them, are going to deliver better care in better ways to more Ontarians.

By bringing doctors, nurses and nurse practitioners together, along with pharmacists, dieticians and other health care providers, these teams are going to be

able to provide the very best in comprehensive primary care. They will be able to care for more patients than any solo doctor's practice ever could, specifically because nurses and nurse

practitioners will be on hand to work alongside doctors, providing complementary skills to ensure that patients receive great care when and where they need it. I consider this to be one of the very

best ways to use the knowledge and skills our nurses have to offer, and we're doing it initially with 55 teams in 47 communities. There will be 150 family health teams by 2007-08.

As we mark National Nursing Week, I should note that nursing has been a profession in Ontario for more than 100 years; 101, to be exact. They are now into

their second century. I'd like to say, on behalf our government, that I expect it to be a century in which nurses don't have to fight quite so hard and quite so often for the recognition and

respect they deserve. Certainly they're not going to have to as long as we're on this side of the House.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Responses?

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): I'm pleased to rise today to respond to the Premier's statement. I think everybody in the House will

welcome more money coming to Ontario for the matters the Premier discussed: post-secondary education, immigrant settlement, skills training and so on. I think it's critical that we have the

necessary funding to ensure that new immigrants are welcomed to Ontario and that their road to full partnership in the Ontario economy happens as quickly as possible. Similarly, I think we all

agree that improved funding for post-secondary education is critical for the future of our province. I sincerely hope the improvements will be investments we can see actually being made and that

we'll be able to quantify the benefits received.

That's the good news. I think there are some things that are a bit more disappointing.

First -- and this underlines the point we have been making for weeks, if not months -- the fact that we went into the meeting with numbers that perhaps were

not the result of as careful thought as there might have been probably caused the Premier to come out with less than if he'd entered the meeting, as we suggested, with a specific list of individual

inequities that required addressing.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): The Leader of the Opposition and members of the opposition gave careful consideration and listened in

silence. I would expect the same respect to be given to the Leader of the Opposition as he continues his reply.

Mr. Tory: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To some extent, I think the result, which is well less than the $5-billion down payment the Premier talked about without any reference to a five-year term, is

as a result of the Premier not really having a plan over the past few months and not doing a better job in advance of the meeting.

We could have seen a list of items where there is inequity. This could have been shared with the public, with the media and with the opposition parties, among

others, and I think could have contributed to a more focused, more broadly supported agenda that the Premier could have carried with him into the room.

We're left today with the somewhat sketchy list of details the Premier has outlined, combined with some curious words from the Prime Minister about how just

about all of this money was included in their existing plans and budgets anyway, thus causing one to wonder what actually happened over the nine hours.

I also note with interest the apparent lack of any discussion between the Premier and the Prime Minister or any real initiative by the Premier of Ontario, as

chair of the federation as well, to commence any kind of process to look for longer-term solutions. While I know that you, Premier, and the Prime Minister both said there will be other meetings to

follow -- in fact, you mentioned that today -- I really feel that we urgently have to go to work on finding a better way to address these issues in the longer term.

It just doesn't seem right that months after the Premier signed a deal in effect causing us to automatically pay more for equalization, he should be put in the

position where he's having to go to Ottawa to plead for money, and this in the wake of deals that are done elsewhere in the country. I'm sure the Prime Minister can't think that that's the right

way to run the country in the long term, and as Premier of Ontario, I would hope that you would agree. It's like adding layer after layer of varnish on top of the wood. You soon can't even see the

original wood at all, and you can't really get to the bottom of it, where you started.

In your role as chair of the federation for a while yet and, in any event, in your role as Premier of Canada's largest province, I urge you to take initiatives

to get a longer-term discussion going on how we can reform this system, which has now had far too much tinkering and fiddling on all sides, for various reasons, over the years by all kinds of

different people.

Finally, consistent with the rest of what I've said today, I hope that the Premier will, as we go forward, choose the tenor and the tone of his representation

of Ontario very carefully.

It is my own experience that the more specifics and substance you have on the list of items you're putting forward, and the more thought you've given it in

advance -- ideally, backed up by lots of facts and evidence -- and the more you include longer-term considerations and solutions as opposed to short-term fixes, which by definition can provoke more

short-term emotion, and finally, the more carefully one chooses one's words, without weakening your resolve, the better you will often do.

We look forward to learning more details of the agreement, and any progress, as I said over the weekend, is welcome progress. We also look forward to working

with you to advance Ontario's cause in the days, weeks and months ahead.

NURSES

Mr. John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): It should be on the record that I was the only member of provincial Parliament to show up to lend

personal support to the Premier and his Ontario team.

I want to congratulate and acknowledge the tremendous contribution that nurses make in the province of Ontario. I had the opportunity to work as a nurse at the

Queensway Carleton Hospital for a day to learn about the good work they do. We should acknowledge their outstanding contribution to making our health system the great system it is.

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I want to respond to the Premier's statement today to say that I think any member of this Legislature

who has served here over the last 15 years recognizes that there is some imbalance between federal governments, provincial governments and municipal governments. The federal government continues to

enjoy the greatest taxing room and the greatest taxing power. Meanwhile, over the last 15 years, more and more of the responsibilities for providing the services that are important in people's

everyday lives have been downloaded on to provinces and on to municipalities. I think we all recognize that that is something that needs to be addressed within the Canadian federation, and I, as

much as anyone else in this Legislature, want to see that addressed.

But I want to remind the Premier of what he and his colleagues used to say on this issue. This is a quote from the current Minister of Finance: "I was appalled

and embarrassed that an NDP Premier, any Premier in Ontario, could whine and whimper about not getting more from the national government." That was only a few years ago.

I want to quote the present Minister of Energy: "They like to blame the federal government for this, that or the other thing, they like to imply a whole bunch

of things...." That was the current Minister of Energy just a couple of years ago.

So one of the things I find interesting is that this is a government that is a very recent convert to this. You used to scorn, you used to literally ridicule

anyone who raised the issue of either fiscal imbalance or responsibility imbalance with the federal government.

I just want to review this weekend, because the Premier has given his speech, but I want to remind the Premier of this; there are a few things here that are

important. For example, there is the $1.5 billion for post-secondary education. I just want to remind the Premier that Paul Martin and Jack Layton reached that accord a couple of weeks ago. This

money was going to come to Ontario regardless, as a result of that accord. I just want to point out that there's going to be some money for environmental initiatives. Again, that accord was reached

between Paul Martin and Jack Layton a couple of weeks ago. That money was going to come to Ontario regardless. Then there is the issue of a new labour market agreement, with some training money.

You will know that additional money for training for workers was again part of the accord reached between Paul Martin and Jack Layton a couple of weeks ago, and that money was going to come to

Ontario regardless.

I just want to say to the Premier that I'm glad you had a good weekend with your federal colleague, but in fact much of what you try to boast about here was

already agreed to in an accord between Jack Layton and Paul Martin. That money was coming to Ontario regardless. So congratulations on the weekend. What did you add?

NURSES

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): It goes without saying that my caucus and I salute Ontario nurses for the tremendous work they do every day

for Ontario patients. They provide excellent, high-quality care in Ontario hospitals, in all floors and in all capacities, in long-term-care homes, in home care, in community health centres and in

public health units. We thank them for their commitment, their dedication, their hard work and their incredible contribution to Ontario's health care system.

It's too bad that the McGuinty government sent a chill through the nursing profession when the Minister of Health approved 757 full-time equivalent nursing

layoffs in mid-January. So many nurses work part time, work casual, so the number will probably be 1,000 nurses actually lost. Of course, our hospitals can ill-afford this.

Doris Grinspun, executive director of the Registered Nurses Association of Ontario, said, "I am not aware of any hospital that has said to me, `We have a

surplus of nurses.' All of a sudden we do? That means we're cutting services."

This is counter to anything the minister has said about this, or the president of the ONA, who also said that the McGuinty government has done a 180-degree

turn on its stated commitment. Nurses feel betrayed; nurses have lost confidence.

During this week, we should be hiring and not firing nurses. That's the message Ontario New Democrats want to deliver.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): We have with us in the Speaker's gallery a parliamentary delegation from the Kingdom of the Netherlands: the

standing committee on education of the second chamber of the States General. Please join me in warmly welcoming them to the assembly.

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I believe we have unanimous consent for a

member from each party to speak for up to five minutes in recognition of Yom Hashoah, Holocaust Remembrance Day.

The Speaker: Do we have unanimous consent, as requested by the government House leader? Agreed.

HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL DAY

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): In a ceremony at Queen's Park earlier today, we recognized and

honoured 14 Holocaust survivors whose unbelievable stories of anguish, suffering and survival of both body and spirit are a testimony to the human will to live. These Holocaust survivors, who are

in the House today, came to Ontario, rebuilt their lives and were honoured for their wonderful contribution as citizens of Ontario.

Today, we recognize Yom Hashoah Ve Hagevurah, Holocaust Memorial Day -- a day designated for Holocaust remembrance in communities around the world. This is the

12th year the Ontario Legislature has observed Holocaust Memorial Day, and I'm proud to say that Ontario was the first jurisdiction in the world, outside of the state of Israel, to officially

recognize it.

This year's memorial is especially poignant for me, coming as it does near the 60th anniversary of the Allies' victory over Nazi tyranny in Europe. But it's

also poignant because last March I travelled to Israel with the Commissioner of Emergency Management and a number of police officials to look at how the Israelis handle emergencies and

counterterrorism. It was a working trip with firm, practical goals to achieve. We did what we intended, and yet we did find time to visit Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial and museum in

Jerusalem.

The memorial is dedicated to preserving the memory and story of each of the six million people who died in the Holocaust. As a Jew, these memories strike the

heart and the soul. Every Jew is touched by the Holocaust. We lost loved ones, family members or friends, or members in the community lost someone. The Holocaust echoes through generations. The

loss is extraordinary.

At Yad Vashem, that loss is made real. It is concrete. You can touch it. In the Valley of Communities, you stand before wall after wall, carved out of solid

rock, listing the names of more than 5,000 communities that lived, breathed, had life, in which men and women loved, married, raised children, worked, laughed and worshipped. Today, in most cases,

nothing remains of these Jewish communities except for their names, forever frozen in the bedrock of Yad Vashem. It was here that I found the name of the town where my father was born, Czestochowa,

and the town where my mother was born, Sosnowiec.

As I said, the Holocaust reaches out of the past and touches the shoulder of every Jew. But the Children's Memorial is especially sad. It commemorates the one

and-a-half million Jewish children who perished in Hitler's Final Solution. The memorial is carved out of an underground cavern, and memorial candles, the customary Jewish tradition to remember the

dead, are reflected infinitely in a dark and sombre space. They reminded me of a million stars. As you stand there, you can hear the names of the murdered children, their ages and countries of

origin read in the background.

Holocaust Memorial Day commemorates all who died in the Holocaust, not just Jews. We also remember those whom the Nazis targeted for their race, their

religion, their politics, their disabilities or their sexual orientation. It's important to set aside time to remember all these victims whose lives were taken by the Nazis. In remembering, we bear

witness to what these men, women and children endured.

Tragically, other genocides have followed since World War II, in Cambodia and Rwanda and in the former Yugoslavia. It is evident that we must continue our

struggle to keep alive the spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights approved by the United Nations 56 years ago in the shadow of the Holocaust. The declaration recognized the inherent

dignity and the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family as a foundation of freedom, justice and peace throughout the world. It called on the world to protect human rights by

the rule of law.

We are indeed fortunate to live in Canada and in Ontario, but we must never take our good fortune for granted. We must guard our democratic institutions and

democratic freedoms. We must appreciate, nurture and protect them, and we must constantly remind ourselves how easy it is to lose them.

While we were in the Valley of Communities at Yad Vashem, we laid a wreath and I recited a brief traditional Hebrew mourner's prayer, the Kaddish. Today in

Jewish communities around the world, people will be reciting that prayer. On behalf of the victims, the survivors and their families I would like to recite that Hebrew prayer that is something for

which all people may pray, and I ask for unanimous consent to allow me to do that.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: Remarks in Hebrew.

One line of this prayer translates as, "He who creates peace in His celestial heights, may He create peace for us."

We must always remember so that the world will never forget.

Mr. Cameron Jackson (Burlington): On behalf of our leader, John Tory, and the PC caucus -- in fact, all members of the House -- I'm pleased to

speak on Yom Hashoah, the Day of the Holocaust. I first would like to say that I will share my time with and commend my colleague from Halton for bringing forward his bill to declare Yom Hashoah as

a day of provincial observance.

Today we stand in silent remembrance of the six million Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust. The commemoration is also an integral part of the 60th

anniversary of the victory in Europe, which was also a victory over the Nazi genocidal terror.

However, 60 years after the inmates of the death camps were liberated, anti-Semitism continues to persist in Canada. The 2004 audit of anti-Semitic incidents

issued by B'nai Brith's League for Human Rights reveals that such incidents have risen dramatically by over 46% last year alone, the highest number of anti-Semitic incidents ever recorded in its

22-year history.

But what is even more disturbing is when our justice system fails the victims of hate crimes. On April 16 of this year, an Ontario Court justice acquitted two

teens of the charge of willfully promoting hatred against an identifiable group, saying that their intention was simply to get themselves on television. They painted swastikas on a synagogue, they

toppled gravestones, they shattered windows in the temple, they sprayed profanities on Jewish community property. But in delivering his verdict, the justice said that the charge that they were

motivated by prejudice or hatred was not proven.

I join with Frank Dimant, the executive director and president of B'nai Brith Canada, in affirming that "the court has failed to recognize the hate-motivated

aspect of this crime, which has had a deep impact on the Jewish community." The Ontario government needs to send a very strong message that anti-Semitism will not be tolerated in Ontario or

anywhere else. I join with B'nai Brith in calling on the Attorney General to review this decision immediately.

I also join with B'nai Brith in calling for an amendment to the Criminal Code to include Holocaust denial as a hate crime and for new, stringent legislation to

prohibit the publication of hate speech while establishing clear sentencing guidelines for hate crimes. It is only by taking such decisive action that we complete the tribute we pay today to the

victims of the Holocaust and ensure that "Never again" becomes a reality.

Shalom aleichem.

Mr. Ted Chudleigh (Halton): With the 60th anniversary of V-E Day and many of that greatest generation now gone, it's perhaps all the more

poignant that we remember Yom Hashoah and Holocaust Memorial Day in Ontario. Having sponsored the bill that enacted Holocaust Memorial Day in Ontario, I have always been honoured to have taken an

active role toward the goal of rooting out hatred and promoting human rights, civic and moral responsibility, and individual and democratic freedoms.

Holocaust Memorial Day in Ontario started out with a simple concept. It is clear from the lessons of history that there is an ever-present need to defend the

pillars of justice in our society. We provided a day for the citizens of Ontario to reflect on the past, consider the present and prepare for the future. We commemorate the victims of the most

terrible genocide in human history and hold it out as an example to all people from which to learn. We use it as a central point for our youth to learn the lessons of our society, our history and

our shared values.

In 1933, the Nazis had systemically stripped the rights and freedoms from their own citizens simply because they were of Jewish descent. By the time the war

began, Jews were second-class citizens. It must not be forgotten that each turn in the sickening spiral of the Holocaust occurred as, one by one, Jewish human rights were stripped away and no one

rose to their defence. A lesson we have tried to take from this is "never again."

Each time we see even the smallest blow against the armour of a just society, we must rise to its defence. We must teach our children that the death of a just

society can occur as a result of thousands of seemingly small attacks.

The lack of true democratic freedoms paved the way for these atrocities to occur. This theme runs through all examples of state-sponsored genocide, including

Stalin's Russia, Pol Pot's Cambodia and Rwanda. Where individuals do not have a direct stake in their own government, they often abrogate their civil and moral obligations as well. Citizens need to

take an active role in defending society. These atrocities were carried out with the active help of local collaborators and the acquiescence or indifference of numerous bystanders.

However, some people recognized those obligations even while facing their fear. I ask everyone to remember the example of heroism set by Raoul Wallenberg,

Canada's only honorary citizen, who was the Swedish ambassador to Hungary during World War II. Raoul Wallenberg saved the lives of over 100,000 Hungarian Jews, but was himself deported to Russia by

Soviet forces at the end of the war, never to be heard from again.

Holocaust Memorial Day -- Yom Hashoah -- is an appropriate way to honour the memory of six million Holocaust victims and the victims of state-sponsored

genocide around the world. We can remember this event in union with the Holocaust survivors living in Ontario and people around the world who have experienced or are indeed now defending themselves

from similar horrors.

Finally, the ideals of cultural harmony, respect and multicultural societies have been forged from the fires of the Holocaust experience.

Ontario was the first jurisdiction outside of Israel to recognize Holocaust Memorial Day. Today, Holocaust Memorial Day is recognized in seven of the 10

provinces in Canada and 26 out of 50 US states, as well as many countries in Europe. It would be my hope and dream that respect for minorities, respect for individuals, can spread in the same way

that Holocaust Memorial Day has spread around the continent and indeed around the world.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): On behalf of New Democrats, I'm proud to speak on this very important occasion.

Between 1933 and 1945, over six million Jewish men, women and children, in addition to millions of Polish, Russian and other nationals of Eastern Europe, were

systematically put to death. Today, we pause to remember, because though time has passed, it is so important that we never forget.

During those 12 years, from 1933 to 1945, entire communities, villages, indeed entire generations of families were exterminated in the most brutal and

calculated fashion. The suffering cannot be described and the loss to humanity and the damage to human dignity cannot be measured.

We need to remember that these acts were carried out in our times by a supposedly civilized society. Indeed, the Western world learned a lesson from these

terrible events of the Holocaust. We learned that what we call "civilization" can be very tenuous -- very tenuous indeed. That is why we must not allow ourselves to forget. For example, the early

warning signs of the persecution of Jews existed in 1935, 1936 and 1937, but much of the world did nothing to oppose the persecution, and while tens of thousands of Jewish families tried to flee

Nazi Germany, many countries closed their borders. Indeed, in the pre-war years from 1935 to 1939, Canada essentially closed its borders.

We must always be on guard so that this cannot happen again. We must always speak out against anti-Semitism, hate and racism of any kind. When we reflect, we

see that some of these events still happen today, in Rwanda, in Darfur. Our world still remains a violent and oppressive place for too many people. Countries continue to put their own citizens to

death and continue to use military violence against their own citizens. People still live in incredible poverty, without access to food and shelter.

Today, we remember the sacrifices of those men and women who suffered and died during the worst period of modern history and, today, we remember our

responsibilities to each other. Today is about recommitting ourselves to the task of making the world a safer place, a better place for everyone, no matter their race, their religion, their gender

or their age. That must be our commitment.

The Speaker: Would all members please rise to observe a moment of silence in recognition of Yom Hashoah.

The House observed a moment's silence.

ORAL QUESTIONS

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. Premier, on Saturday you settled for just over $1 billion a year for

five years from the federal government -- some distance from the $5-billion down payment you spoke of before the meeting. Putting that aside for the moment, can you tell us exactly how your deal

breaks down over the five years and which parts of the deal, if any, can be implemented without federal legislation?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): First of all, let me make it clear that any arrangement we have with

the federal government is entirely dependent on having a federal government that supports fairness for Ontario.

I'm very pleased with what we have been able to accomplish. With respect to the immigration agreement, for example, new Canadians arriving in Ontario, instead

of benefiting from $800 worth of supports, will now get $3,400 worth of supports. I think that is a significant increase. By the way, that funding does not flow to the Ontario government; it flows

to our settlement services, ESL services and the like. With respect to the labour market agreement, funding will go from about $1,100 per worker to $1,800 per worker. Again, that money does not

flow to the Ontario government; it flows to our training agencies.

This is an agreement that benefits the people of Ontario.

Mr. Tory: As I said earlier, we welcome the progress. Any progress is indeed welcome and we are just trying to nail down some of the

specifics.

The Prime Minister said in the press conference that the two of you held after the meeting -- and you told reporters yesterday, according to Karen Howlett's

story in the Globe and Mail -- that more than half the funding promised under this deal is in danger should the budget bill not pass. Given this, at any time during the nine-hour meeting, did you

raise with the Prime Minister the possibility of a separate piece of legislation that could ensure speedy passage by all parties of the benefits of this particular deal that would flow to people in

Ontario?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I note with interest that we have had indication now from the federal Conservative Party that they are fully supportive of

the arrangement I was able to make with the Prime Minister on the weekend. Again, I say to the member opposite that it's incumbent upon all of us in this House to understand that unless we have a

federal government that is supportive of fairness for Ontario, we cannot continue to move forward.

We've made some important initial steps this weekend. I think the people of Ontario are pleased with that progress, but I think they are quite right to expect

more of us still to come. The Prime Minister has agreed to a second meeting. I've indicated to Mr. Harper that I'm prepared to meet with him. Should Mr. Layton wish to meet with me, I will be

prepared to do that as well. The people of Ontario have demanded that we approach this in a non-partisan way and we will continue to do so.

Mr. Tory: The Premier has pointed out that the deputy leader of the Conservative Party, Peter MacKay, has already stated that a Conservative

government would honour this deal. In the spirit that the Premier spoke about, I did visit, as I think he knows, with the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Harper, in Ottawa, and with the Ontario

Conservative MPs to support the argument being advanced on behalf of Ontario. Mr. Layton has already indicated as well, as I understand it, his support for this deal.

So my question would be, given that perhaps it didn't come up on Saturday, would you now consider a request to be made of all three party leaders on your

behalf and on behalf of Ontario that this deal be put into a separate bill to ensure speedy passage and so that this money can start to flow to the people who will benefit from it as soon as

possible?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I sincerely appreciate the advice offered by the leader of the official opposition. But rather than my engaging in the

orchestration of some tactics that may or may not succeed on Parliament Hill today, where much is in the air, I think it's more important to secure support from the individual party leaders for the

arrangements we made, and that is the avenue we will proceed down.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): New question. The leader of the official opposition.

Mr. Tory: My question again is to the Premier -- and I would tell him that I'm prepared to continue to assist in that regard as best I

can.

Still on the matter of this agreement, on Friday, in yet another one of the Prime Minister's announcements, it was revealed that Ontario would receive money

for institutional daycare. The announcement totals $1.8 billion over five years for Ontario. Because there seem to be a couple of missing parts in the list that has been carried in the press, and

even in your own outline of the money today -- the total of $5.7 billion -- can you tell us whether or not this $1.8 billion announced for daycare on Friday is included in the deal you made with

the Prime Minister on Saturday, or is this money in addition to the deal you made?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Those were two separate matters, and I know that the minister is prepared to provide more detail should the member require

it.

Mr. Tory: Premier, in the deal that Mr. Martin struck with Mr. Layton, $1.5 billion over two years, was set aside for post-secondary education

and training. Ontario's share of that money, therefore, would have been approximately $300 million a year, based on population. Your deal, arrived at on Saturday, calls for $1.55 billion over five

years for post-secondary education, or exactly $300 million a year in each of the next five years. Can the Premier confirm whether the money you claim to have negotiated from the Prime Minister is

the same money that he already agreed to give Ontario, or is this additional money to that which was promised to Mr. Layton earlier?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: The innovation connected with the particular matter of the post-secondary funding is that I was able to secure from the

Prime Minister for the first time an agreement that, moving forward, this funding for post-secondary education will be delivered to Ontario for the first time on a per capita basis, which is really

good news for Ontarians and especially for our students.

Mr. Tory: That is welcome news, but maybe I could just repeat my supplementary question to the Premier: Is the $1.55 billion over five years

for post-secondary education that you have outlined as part of your deal with the Prime Minister, which we all welcome -- we're simply looking to see whether this is money that you negotiated for

the first time on Saturday, or whether it is the same money that Mr. Layton negotiated with the Prime Minister some time ago. It's a very simple question, and I'd appreciate an answer. Thank

you.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: What we achieved was the per capita commitment for the people of Ontario, which I think is welcome news. I also indicated

that I'm prepared, and the Prime Minister is prepared, to meet once again. We had a very lengthy discussion about post-secondary education. I can tell you that when I have an opportunity to meet

with Premiers, there is tremendous interest in what we can do together to develop our human capital.

So, yes, to be very direct, what we have done is not new money. I did not negotiate that new money. What we did of significance was ensure that that money is

now delivered to us on a per capita basis, and all new money going forward when it comes to post-secondary education.

PRIVATIZATION OF PUBLIC SERVICES

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. Ontarians are worried that they are going to get a nasty surprise on

May 11: a budget featuring privatization and deregulation through the back door, a budget that Mike Harris could be proud of. They are particularly worried and concerned about privatization of the

Liquor Control Board of Ontario, an organization that delivers over $1 billion in revenue to the government every year and an organization that, frankly, results in safer, healthier distribution of

alcohol in the province.

Premier, will you categorically rule out any form of privatization of the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, including royalty and income trusts, in your May 11

budget?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): To the Chair of Management Board.

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): Again, I think the public should be aware that the Minister of Finance has

established a group to look at this very matter. They are looking at it very comprehensively. I think what the minister has said is that we can expect them to report sometime in the spring, so I

think we're best advised to await the outcome of that quite comprehensive study that the minister has indicated will be available in the spring and see what that study shows. They have been given

very clear direction. I think the minister has indicated that there's no intention to sell off the LCBO, but the interest is in finding the best long-term way of dealing with beverage alcohol in

the province of Ontario. As I've said, we have a very competent group of people looking at that, expected to report later this spring.

Mr. Hampton: I'm shocked and appalled. The McGuinty team that used to rant about privatization now refuses to rule it out.

Ontarians are worried about another privatization through the back door: P3 partnerships in terms of schools and hospitals. Ontarians want public hospitals,

public schools. They know that when you move to private financing or private involvement, the borrowing costs are greater, plus the private corporation will want to make a profit. For example, on a

$1-billion hospital, $200 million gets siphoned off to private corporations.

Premier, will you today rule out any P3 involvement in our schools, our hospitals and other kinds of public infrastructure in your May 11 budget?

Hon. Mr. Phillips: Because this involves the Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal, I'll refer that to him.

Hon. David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal): I thank the member for the question. Back in July of last year, we introduced

an investment framework for the province of Ontario that had five fundamental principles. I want to list them for the member, because I know it's too easy for him to go to a Web site to actually

look it up.

Number one: Public interest is paramount. Number two: Value for money must be achieved. Number three: Appropriate public ownership and control must be

preserved, and we have specifically said that hospitals, schools and water will continue to be publicly owned. Number four: Accountability must be maintained. Number five: The process must be fair,

transparent and efficient.

The strategies that we are bringing do not involve the privatization of public assets. Talk of privatization could in fact misinform and potentially mislead

the public, and I think it is important that we all be very clear about the strategies we're going to bring and the benefits we are going to bring. We are going to get on and solve the

infrastructure deficit that the previous government left, because this government has the courage to undertake those strategies.

Mr. Hampton: It was a simple question: Will the McGuinty government rule out any P3 operation of schools and hospitals and other public

infrastructure? Once again, I think what we heard is that the McGuinty government is entertaining just that.

Premier, over the past 10 years, skyrocketing tuition fees have forced university and college students into greater and greater debt. Now students and their

parents are scared that your government is going to deregulate tuition fees, causing another round of skyrocketing tuition. Federal moneys for post-secondary education negotiated by Jack Layton and

Paul Martin are expressly dedicated to making tuition fees more affordable for Ontario students and their families. Will you rule out any further deregulation of college and university tuition fees

in your May 11 budget? Yes or no?

Hon. Mr. Caplan: To the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Hon. Mary Anne V. Chambers (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities): I'm really happy to rise to respond to the question from the

leader of the third party.

First of all, I have encouraged him to wait. He doesn't have much longer to wait. You know, we will all wait together for the good news that we'll hear on

Wednesday.

I'd also like to remind the member that our government, the McGuinty government, is the first government ever to have frozen tuition fees here in Ontario for

two years. I think it's also important to remember that the NDP had actually promised to freeze tuition fees. Instead, they raised the fees by 50%. So I rest my case.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): New question.

CHILDREN'S SERVICES

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Again, to the Premier. I've asked three simple questions: Please rule out tuition deregulation --

won't do that; please rule out P3 hospitals, P3 schools -- won't do that; please rule out any form of privatization of the LCBO -- won't do that. All of this sounds like backdoor privatization to

me.

I want to ask now about autism treatment for children aged six and over, because before the election, Premier, you said, "I believe that the lack of

government-funded IBI treatment for autistic children over six is unfair and discriminatory. The Ontario Liberals support extending autism treatment beyond the age of six."

Premier, will Wednesday's budget extend and safeguard IBI treatment for all autistic children over the age of six?

Hon. Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Children and Youth Services, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): There are more services available

to children with autism of all ages than ever before. We have increased the under-six program by $10 million, hired over 100 therapists, and as of April increased the number of children receiving

IBI by 25%; and as of April as well, decreased the waiting list for assessment by 72%.

We know we need to do more and we will do more in order to meet the needs of these children.

Mr. Hampton: I take it from that that despite the Premier's promise, children over the age of six will continue to go without IBI

treatment

I want to ask now about families that have children who are severely disabled. The Ombudsman is investigating why families are being forced to give up custody

of their children in order to obtain services, and on Friday a group of families came to Queen's Park to announce a lawsuit against the McGuinty government for failing their children. One parent

was Anne Larcade, of Huntsville. She was forced to sign a temporary custody agreement in February to get her son, Alexandre, into a group home in Guelph, three and a half hours away. She doesn't

want to lose custody of her family, but your government is forcing her to do that.

Denying services to families who don't give up custody is wrong. Will Wednesday's budget include enough money to support children with special needs with their

families, rather than the families having to give up custody: yes or no?

Hon. Mrs. Bountrogianni: We are already doing a great deal for these children. It's a system that's been underfunded for many years. This

can't be fixed overnight.

In our first budget we increased funding for special needs by $74 million -- a 15% increase. What I have done in the meantime is ask my ministry to reissue the

directive that was issued by the former government that no children's aid society should take parental rights away unless the child is in need of protection. This should not be happening. I

understand it is happening. I welcome the report from the Ombudsman, and we will move forward to solve this problem.

Mr. Hampton: This is not an issue of money. The minister says the children are getting service, but the McGuinty government forces these

families to give up custody before the children can get the service.

I want to ask the Premier about a federal funding issue. The federal government provides Ontario with money through the national child benefit supplement for

the poorest children in Ontario. Your government claws back that money. You take money from the poorest children and the poorest families in Ontario. Now, you just gave a long statement celebrating

your meeting with Prime Minister Paul Martin. Will you tell us, Premier, are you now going to stop clawing back federal money which should be going to the poorest children in Ontario? Are you going

to stop the clawback which you yourself said is morally wrong?

Hon. Mrs. Bountrogianni: I'd like to refer this to the Minister of Community and Social Services.

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I do welcome the opportunity to

speak once again to the third party to explain the host of changes that we've brought in to help people of low income in Ontario, and in particular children. When we look across the breadth of our

government, right across the board -- the move with affordable housing, thanks once again to the federal government signing finally with the provincial government, where we can help low-income

families; child care monies finally going to child care from the federal government to Ontario; increases to agencies that they have not seen in 12 or 13 years.

Finally, let me say to the third party that in our last budget, when we stopped the policy and $7 million more was returned to families across the province,

that happened to be a part of the last budget that your party voted against. So let's not forget your history on this. When push comes to shove and you finally see a party that wants to help

families -- you, in your history in this House, voted against the last budget.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): Order. I'd like the members to stop their uttering of unparliamentary language and stop inciting

unparliamentary behaviour.

ONTARIO BUDGET

Mr. Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): My question is for the Premier. You say you won't raise taxes in the budget on Wednesday, and the Minister of

Training, Colleges and Universities just used the word "frozen" about tuition. There's another set of big fees that are frozen in Ontario. Those are fees on real estate transactions -- people

buying houses in the province. As you know, those fees now are payable to Teranet. There is a freeze on Teranet's fees and the right to regulate them after the freeze expires. Now, media reports

have it that you've planned some sort of sale or income trust or some kind of deal with Teranet. What I'd like you to do, Premier, today is to confirm to the people of Ontario that you will not

take any steps that will result in an increase of fees on real estate transactions in Ontario.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): The Minister of Consumer and Business Services.

Hon. Jim Watson (Minister of Consumer and Business Services): I find it rather ironic that the honourable member asked that question, when in

fact it was his government, in one of their ludicrous fire sales, that actually sold the Ontario government's share of Teranet. This is the same party that gave us the 407. They have absolutely not

a whit of credibility when it comes to talking about Teranet or about public-private partnership.

I'm not going to stand here and speculate on what's going to be in the budget. Two days from now, the Minister of Finance will stand and deliver the good news

to the people of Ontario.

Mr. Flaherty: The minister is correct about one thing: It was the previous government that put in the freeze on the fees.

Given his answer, after Wednesday the people of Ontario can now expect an increase in fees to happen on real estate transactions; a tax, by any other name.

Premier, our leader, John Tory, asked you last week to ensure that revenue for any sale of assets will go to reduce the growing provincial debt under your

government in the province of Ontario. We hear lots of rumours about fire sales and assets that may be sold in the announcements that come in the budget on Wednesday. Will you ensure that proceeds

from these fire sales that you undertake will not go into the consolidated general revenue fund but will go into separate accounts so that the people of Ontario can follow that money and make sure

the money is not used up in your reckless spending from the consolidated general revenue fund?

Hon. Jim Watson: I refer it to the Chair of Management Board.

Hon. Gerry Phillips (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): The public has recognized that two days from now we will see the budget here,

and you'll know that.

The thing I can guarantee you is that under Dalton McGuinty, we will never see a deal like the 407, where the users of the 407 have been ripped off with a deal

that sold them down the road for 99 years. The people of Ontario are now stuck with having to pay exorbitant tolls for 99 years. I can guarantee to the member that you will not see a deal under a

Dalton McGuinty government like the 407 rip-off.

ENVIRONMENTAL LEGISLATION

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): A question to the Minister of the Environment: Bill 133 falls far short of providing the kind of

pollution prevention Ontarians want to protect both the environment and human health. Today, leading environmental groups called on you to strengthen, not weaken, Bill 133, so that it includes a

mandatory requirement for pollution prevention planning and not simply pollution control. My question is, will you amend Bill 133 to make pollution prevention plans, emergency reduction targets and

annual reporting on the plans mandatory?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): I'm very pleased to say that Bill 133 very obviously demonstrates our government's

commitment to protect the environment, to require industries to implement spills prevention plans and, I would also say very importantly for municipalities that are impacted when a spill happens in

their community, to provide a fund they will be able to access in a very few days to help compensate them for their out-of-pocket expenses.

I believe that our commitment to the environment, to being proactive and preventive is very clear in Bill 133.

Ms. Churley: Minister, you should read the bill again, because it's not in there at all.

Your own industrial pollution action team recommended mandatory requirements for pollution prevention in their report to you last year. This morning,

environmental groups reported that from 2003 to 2004, under your watch, the volume of spills by MISA-regulated facilities increased 360%. Rick Smith of Environmental Defence said that toxic spills

are "as common as potholes in the spring." Only mandatory pollution prevention plans will reduce the amount of chemicals in use and therefore able to enter the environment through spills in the

first place.

Minister, a 360% increase would make even the Conservatives blush. I'm going to ask you again, will you make pollution prevention planning, reporting and

emission reduction targets mandatory requirements under Bill 133?

Hon. Mrs. Dombrowsky: The honourable member should know that it was because of the number of spills events that Bill 133 was introduced. Our

government has said that we are going to take action and ensure (1) that communities are protected and (2), that prevention plans will be required. That is a part of the bill. You've suggested I

read the bill; I think she hasn't read the bill.

It's very important. We have made a commitment to the people of Ontario. We are prepared to act. I'm very happy that this bill is going to committee. We will

be very eager to hear the proposals and suggestions by a range of people who have indicated an interest in this bill. But make no mistake; our government is absolutely committed to protecting

communities and the environment in the province of Ontario.

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

Mr. Kuldip Kular (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): My question is to the Minister of Transportation. We all know that getting people out of

their cars and on to public transit is vital to sustaining our communities, our environment and our economy. Getting people on to public transit means our roads are less congested, which means

there is less idling and our investments aren't stuck in traffic. And increasing public transit also means a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions that fill up the air and create smog, which

negatively affects the health of Ontarians.

During the election, we promised to provide municipalities with two cents of the provincial gas tax to support growing municipalities like my city of Brampton

fund public transit. Can you tell me how our government is keeping this commitment to municipalities and also how it will help communities like Brampton with public transit?

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): I would like to thank the member from Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale for his question.

The other government made a commitment to share two cents of the gasoline tax with the municipalities. This was one of the key election commitments that we made, and we moved on that commitment in

our very first budget. What that means is about $156 million to the municipalities that they never had before, in the very first year of the gas tax sharing. Over a three-year period, this amount

will be around $700 million, and in four years, roughly $1 billion.

We need to create a transit culture in this province if we want to address the issues of congestion, and this gas tax money will go a long way for us to

improve the service levels and also increase ridership in this province. I was very pleased to be with the mayor of Brampton this morning to make the gas tax announcement.

Mr. Kular: I'm positive that the funding Brampton will receive will greatly assist in increasing public transit ridership. It will also

improve the quality and reliability of the transit system throughout my community.

Minister, the projected growth rates for the GTA are expected to rise by four million over the next couple of decades. How is this government ensuring that

transit ridership increases in order to ease the congestion on our roadways?

Hon. Mr. Takhar: As I said, I was with the mayor of Brampton this morning to make the announcement on the gas tax. The city of Brampton is

getting $3.2 million in gas tax money this year. I want to congratulate the city of Brampton for coming up with a very strong and innovative transit plan to improve transit in the city that will

improve service and increase ridership. They're expecting an 8% increase in ridership in the city of Brampton, and they are going to connect it to York region as well. Out of the 30 routes they

currently have, 22 routes will be revamped, and five new routes will be added. They will also increase employment and add new buses. I'm sure that will go a long way for us to address some of the

issues that the member has raised in his question for the city of Brampton.

FEDERAL-PROVINCIAL

FISCAL POLICIES

Mr. John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): My question is to the Premier. It was with great interest that I read the communiqué following your

meeting with the Prime Minister this past Saturday. The one word not contained in the communiqué is the single biggest priority not just for people in Ottawa, but for people right across the

province of Ontario, and that word is "health." Premier, why isn't there a single new dollar for the number one priority of people in Ontario?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I can tell you that we did talk about health, and I share the member's

disappointment, to be perfectly honest, that we weren't able to achieve more progress in that particular area.

For example, as I mentioned earlier in my statement, we get much less on a per capita basis in Ontario than they do in other provinces. I think that is

unacceptable. I think it's a blatant unfairness, one that has existed for far too long. Obviously, that means we still have more work to do.

Having said that, I will say that I'm also proud that I was able to play some role in landing the last health accord between the federal government and all of

our first ministers, which brought new money to the province of Ontario and all provinces. There's more to be done, and we look forward to doing it.

Mr. Baird: Premier, in the communiqué released following your meeting with Paul Martin, there are a lot of words like, "Our officials

will work...," or "Within 30 days we will conclude...." What amounted out of your meeting were five promises, and I have a simple question I'd like to ask the Premier. My simple question to you is,

do you trust Paul Martin?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: It's a question that's better suited to the other House, to which my friend aspires.

The issue here is -- and I think we've done a pretty good job of negotiating this; it's not the easiest thing in the world to do -- we have tried to proceed in

this matter on a non-partisan basis. It will always be in the interests of the people of Ontario that we have a federal government that recognizes there is a blatant issue of unfairness here. We

made some progress over the weekend. We look forward to making more progress in the days to come.

REFINERY CLOSURE

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): My question is for the Premier. Inco Ltd. seems poised to make a decision to shut down its copper refinery

in our community and process raw copper outside Ontario. If that happens, we will lose about 160 good-paying union, management and support staff jobs from the community.

Inco has been refining copper at the Copper Cliff refinery for over 60 years now. There is no reason for them to shut down the refinery or process raw copper

outside Ontario at a cost of 160 jobs to our community.

Premier, will you tell Inco they can't do this?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): To the Minister of Northern Development and Mines.

Hon. Rick Bartolucci (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): The member across would know full well that on Friday I met with the United

Steelworkers of America representatives. We had a good, frank and very productive meeting. They asked that I try to bring all parties together for a meeting. I should let the member know that I am

working on that and hope to facilitate that as quickly as possible.

Ms. Martel: A supplementary to the Premier: They also asked that the Premier intervene and tell Inco they can't do this, and that needs to be

on the public record.

Look, Premier, the resources in the Sudbury basin belong to the people of Ontario, not to Inco. It's a privilege for Inco to mine and refine the resources, not

a right. Your government has agreements, permits and licences with Inco to use the resources, and you should use all of those to force Inco to continue to refine copper at the Copper Cliff

refinery.

Inco made $612 million in 2004. They made over $300 million in the first quarter of 2005, and $215 million of that came out of the Ontario division, primarily

out of Sudbury. There is no reason for Inco to be allowed to refine raw copper outside Ontario.

I ask you again, Premier, will you intervene and tell Inco they'll not take the resource and not take the jobs out of our community, yes or no?

Hon. Mr. Bartolucci: We on this side of the House are certainly all very concerned about any potential job loss. That's why I continue to be

in touch with the union, with the company and with all the other stakeholders involved. It's my hope that all parties can come together and come up with ideas and suggestions as to how we can work

to protect refinery jobs. It's not my intention, nor will it ever be the intention of this government, to stand up and bash companies or unions or anything else. We're about finding solutions to

problems. They're about Shelley-come-lately, bringing a problem that's already being addressed by our government in a very proactive, real way.

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Mr. John Milloy (Kitchener Centre): My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. As we all know, Ontario is the economic

engine of Canada. We can cite all the statistics we want, but the most important one is the job numbers that come out on the first Friday of every month.

At the moment, Ontario faces some real challenges in terms of a sluggish US economy and high oil prices. Despite that, in my community there are businesses

like Arvato Services, which has announced it is expanding and hiring 150 new employees; Brick Brewing, which is investing $7 million in a new warehouse facility in my area; and Brock Solutions of

Kitchener, an engineering firm which has added 70 employees in the past year.

In light of the figures released last week, can the minister report to the House the state of job creation and the strength of our economy?

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): I'd like to thank the member for the question. The good news is this: In

the month of April, we had a net increase in jobs of 26,000. Full-time jobs increased by 58,000. That was the largest monthly increase in the past eight years. Since October 2003, employment has

risen by 146,000. In addition, the unemployment rate went down to 6.8%. So there's a great deal of confidence in the Ontario economy.

I'm happy to report that there are some additional investments that have been made. ISRA Textile Manufacturing is scheduled to open in Niagara Falls, with an

additional 500 people hired. That's good news for the Niagara region.

Mr. Milloy: I think we recognize the good news. In my community of Kitchener-Waterloo, the unemployment rate is at 5.9%. I know the

unemployment rate in Hamilton is at 5.1%, and Kingston is down to 6.3%.

Despite this, I know there's still concern about the manufacturing sector in our province. In my area, we have a strong manufacturing sector and also a strong

IT sector, but there are always concerns about the future. I was wondering if the minister could report about the future for these two sectors, as well as other key sectors in our economy.

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: The good news, as well, is that manufacturing jobs increased by 8,000 in the province of Ontario. That's really good news

for us. There was also an increase of 20,000 new jobs in the construction sector. The IT sector is also seeing an increase in jobs.

But what I'm really interested to report is that when I was in Washington, I had a meeting with the National Association of Manufacturers of the US. What they

confirmed for us is that we continue to hold a cost advantage over the US when it comes to manufacturing. The differences are quite significant.

For example, in the costs of health care and pension benefits, we have a 4.8% advantage over the US. When it comes to health care costs in the auto sector

alone, this amounts to $2,000 per vehicle produced in the auto sector. In IT, the advantage is 16.7%. So the economy in Ontario, despite the challenges of being faced with a higher dollar -- we're

overcoming those challenges and we're meeting the test. Things are going very well in the Ontario economy.

STUDENT LITERACY

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): My question is to the Premier. Premier, today's Globe editorial does something that, for some reason, you failed

to do last week. It credits the previous government for implementing the high school literacy test. It highlights the fact that the test was developed to help young people by making very certain

that they have the literacy skills they need to succeed as adults, and to ensure that those who need extra help are identified long before they hit the job market.

Premier, do you now agree that we owe it to our young people and to their parents to hold our own education system accountable through continued standardized

testing?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I have always agreed with the notion of standardized testing. I think

Ontario parents, and Ontario taxpayers, for that matter, are entitled to know what kinds of results we're getting for the investments that we are making in public education. By the way, of course,

when we do have results, it enables us to determine on a year-to-year basis our improvement or lack thereof. In fact, I've said in the past that I like the notion of a standardized test. I have

congratulated former Premier Harris for bringing those innovations in.

Where I was critical was that you can't just put in the tests; you've got to put in place the additional supports to ensure that our young people can perform

well on those tests. That's why we're proud to have invested thus far $1.1 billion more into public education for more supports, more teachers and better training.

Mr. Klees: Thank you, Premier. We're encouraged by that. We want to congratulate the students and we want to congratulate the teachers for the

some 11% improvement in the student passing rate on this literacy test.

Can you commit, to students and their parents, that future test score improvements will in fact be as a result of student achievement, not as a result of

lowered standards being applied to those tests?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I don't know whether or not the member opposite is intimating that somehow improvements this year are the result of a

reduction in the standard. I don't think he's saying that. If he is saying that, then I would have preferred that he had said that directly.

It's not about reducing standards. Our young people have tremendous potential. It's about ensuring that we have the necessary supports. We're doing that

through smaller classes, more teachers, better training for our teachers, peace and stability, long-term agreements, and a government that supports public education. That's fundamentally how we're

going to improve those test scores -- better results for our students.

ENERGY CONSERVATION

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Minister of Energy. Ontario needs leadership to promote the conservation of

electricity. However, your plan to allow landlords, without the consent of the tenants, to install sub-meters is wrong for all the 1.5 million tenants of this province. Sub-metering apartments will

cost the vast majority of tenants more than they could ever hope to save. Low- and modest-income tenants can ill afford to pay for the lack of their landlords' conservation strategy.

Minister, it is the landlords who refuse to invest in conservation by replacing dated appliances, the landlords who refuse to insulate and provide

energy-efficient doors, and the landlords who do not convert from electric heat and water heaters.

Are you going rethink this plan that, in the end, is only going to zap Ontario tenants?

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): First of all, the government has not formally introduced a policy for

implementation of smart meters across the province. We are committed to them. We are moving forward. We haven't addressed the specific issue of rental accommodation.

The member quite correctly points out that there are challenges associated with extending the benefits of conservation to those with modest means and those

particularly in rental situations. Accordingly, we will be introducing legislation later this year that will establish a broad framework for the installation of smart meters and will leave open to

this Legislature and to members of this government the opportunity to discuss implementation issues around smart meters.

The issue was raised by low-income groups last week. They raised some valid concerns that do need to be addressed in greater detail and need to be studied with

more precision. I look forward to the member opposite's input into those discussions.

Mr. Prue: I thank you on the one hand, but I want some assurance from you on the other. The conservation strategies must start at the root.

The basis for many problems in older-stock buildings in Ontario, as you're well aware, is out-dated, energy-hogging appliances. The tenants simply turning on or off the lights or on and off the

television is minuscule in comparison with the heating systems, the water heating systems, the insulation and the energy-hogging old refrigerators that burn way too much electricity.

Minister, do the smart thing. At least announce today that you encourage conservation at the source. Don't punish the tenants. They've had enough. I want your

assurance today that you're going to do the right thing and start with the landlords first.

Hon. Mr. Duncan: The right thing is to conserve energy and to assist low-income residents of our province and people of more modest means to

share in the benefits of conservation.

First of all, my ministry is working to help low-income energy consumers in Ontario. We've partnered with LIEN -- that's the group that brought forward this

report last week -- to help this segment of Ontario's population. We partner with LIEN on a whole variety of things, including DSM plans, to help low-income electricity consumers. Brantford Hydro,

for example, recently received authorization from the OEB to deliver low-income energy conservation in their community. We've partnered with the Social Housing Services Corp. to pilot centralized

energy management services in 20 non-profit buildings in Ontario, a project that will be rolled out across 250,000 units.

That member and his party cancelled all conservation programs when in government. We're moving forward on them, and we're going to do it in a prudent manner

that will assist low-income Ontarians to share in the benefits of improved conservation of energy.

GROW BONDS PROGRAM

Mr. David Orazietti (Sault Ste. Marie): My question is to the Minister of Northern Development and Mines. Northerners, and certainly my

constituents in Sault Ste. Marie, were very pleased that last year's budget committed to a pilot program for northern Ontario grow bonds. As you know, grow bonds are an idea generated by

northerners, and our government responded quickly by working to implement this exciting initiative.

Grow bonds are provincially guaranteed, with competitive interest rates for residents of northern Ontario. The proceeds will be used to fund loans to small and

medium-sized businesses, because northern businesses often have difficulty gaining access to capital. Could the minister please tell us the final total sales for the northern Ontario grow bonds

program?

Hon. Rick Bartolucci (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): The member from Sault Ste. Marie asks a very important question for

northerners. I am very pleased and proud today to stand in the House and tell my fellow members in the Legislature, and also all of northern Ontario, that northerners purchased $12.9 million

worth of grow bonds over the purchase period. It is very important as well to know that this is roughly $13 million that will go toward loans to create and expand businesses that will create real,

long-term jobs in northern Ontario.

I am particularly impressed with the dedication and enthusiasm of northerners with regard to the grow bonds project. This was a pilot project and it's turning

out to be a very successful project, because northerners believe in northerners.

Mr. Orazietti: I'm very pleased to hear that. After years of neglect by the past government, we have taken the initiative to implement a new

program that is already showing success for northerners.

I know that we, as a northern caucus, worked hard to spread the word about this important opportunity, as did many of our northern stakeholders and community

leaders. These people must be applauded for their confidence and their efforts to develop this program. My community of Sault Ste. Marie invested $500,000 in the northern Ontario grow bonds

program, and I'm very proud of our city's support for it.

Businesses are now applying for these loans. Who will be responsible for accessing and approving the loan applications?

Hon. Mr. Bartolucci: There is a board set up called the Northern Ontario Grow Bonds Corp. It's made up of northerners and they will be

responsible for loan approvals, as well as the management of the corporate business affairs.

The deadline for submissions for loans was May 6. I am very encouraged by the response from northern investors, and I will be reporting to the House in a

little while as this material becomes more available.

Again, I know my colleagues, and certainly the Minister of Finance, are very pleased with the response from northerners to our northern Ontario grow bonds

pilot project. Finally we have a government that is responsive to the needs of northerners.

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I have a question for the Minister of Health. Last week, I drove to the Northwestern Ontario Municipal

Association conference in Kenora. While I was there, I spoke with municipal representatives about the doctor situation in the community of Geraldton. The people of Geraldton would like to know what

you're doing to fill the void left by the doctors who are leaving their community this Friday.

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I've been working very closely with my colleague, the local member, on that

issue. It's a very challenging one indeed for the people of Geraldton, and I recognize this entirely. We've worked very closely with the mayor as well, and a variety of initiatives are together and

in place to assist, both on the short-term and on the longer term.

I think it's fair to say that on the shorter term, the health needs of the people in Geraldton will be met through a variety of coverages, which are often

referred to as locums. These tend to be very short stints of doctors coming in from other places. On the longer term, we have in place very generous funding incentives for doctors to practise in

communities like Geraldton. We will continue to work with the local community until we're satisfied that their needs can be met on a longer-term basis. But on the short term, for certain, the

people of Geraldton should know that through locums and through the work of the Group Health Centre in Sault Ste. Marie, which has been helpful, and adjacent communities like Marathon, we're

seeking to provide the necessary coverage while we address these concerns on a longer-term basis.

Mr. Miller: Minister, the situation is that all the doctors but two leave this Friday, May 13. The reality is that the locum pool has suddenly

evaporated, so there's a very big question mark hanging over the heads of the people in Geraldton. You made a commitment to Geraldton that services wouldn't be cut or the hospital closed. I'd like

you to tell the community of Geraldton where the replacement doctors are coming from and when they will arrive.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I hope that the honourable member had the candour, while he was addressing the situation, to acknowledge that a big

contribution to this problem is the fact that for five years, the party that he's part of sat on their hands while communities like Geraldton and more than 100 others across Ontario fell short of

doctors.

Mr. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): That was then; this is now.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: The honourable member heckles to say, "That was then; this is now." He's one of those who subscribe to the view, I guess,

that you can produce a doctor as fast as you can produce a pizza, for example. But you can't. We're working overtime -- double-step, two-time -- to be able to produce more doctors in Ontario.

There's tremendous evidence of that. On the shorter term, we will have to rely upon things like locums. I personally have come across doctors, even in the last five or six days, who have indicated

to me that they'll be taking part of their summer leave and making it available to people in Geraldton. That's evidence that we've let everybody know of the really difficult circumstances that are

there. We have common cause with the people of Geraldton. We're working hand in hand with the mayor with a view toward addressing this situation that we all acknowledge is a very challenging one

indeed.

ANIMAL PROTECTION

Mr. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): The minister should get his hecklers straight.

My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources. You know that there are more roadside zoos in this province than anywhere else in this country. We have no

regulations in place to protect the welfare of the animals -- or the visiting public, even more importantly. We know that there are regulations that have been written up that have been sitting on

your desk for some months now, and we've seen nothing come out of the process to date. Can you please tell us today when we can expect those new regulations dealing with this issue to be brought

before the province?

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources): This is an important issue, and there's a lot of public interest, obviously, in how animals

are cared for and tended in zoos across this province. We've been consulting with that community to make sure that the regulations we bring forward are sensible and practical and can be implemented

in a timely fashion. I'm saying to the member that he should stay tuned and we will be presenting them shortly.

Mr. Bisson: That's just the problem. People have been staying tuned, and they've seen nothing coming out of this channel just yet. The issue

is that not only are the regulations not coming out, but it's also --

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Don't be so hard on yourself.

Mr. Bisson: When you're heckling me, it is funny. That was good.

Anyway, the issue is that not only are the regulations not coming out, but you know as well as I do that one of the outstanding issues is that of the exotic

species, such as lions, tigers and others. It is rumoured that there is nothing in the regulations you're looking at that will deal with exotic species. Will you confirm, yes or no: Will the

regulations deal with exotic species?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: I'm addressing an exotic species right across the room. As a fellow northerner, I add that as a compliment, and I know he

takes it as a compliment.

I would say again to the member that we want to make sure we get this right. There are a lot of concerns, whether it be caring for indigenous species or exotic

species in the varied zoos across the province. We're working with the stakeholders to make sure we get new regulations right, that they be practical and that we can implement them in a timely way.

I say to the member that we'll get there shortly.

Mr. Bisson: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: Teddy bears are not an exotic species.

SPORT FISHING

Mr. Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources. Sport fishing is an extremely popular

activity in this province. My wife and I have a 7- and an 8-year-old who, once we taught them to not eat the worms, discovered that they really enjoyed fishing. Over the past weekend, the Bay of

Quinte in my area was literally full of boats, with the opening of walleye season. I understand that you're proposing a number of changes that will better serve today's anglers, and I wonder if you

could share them with us, realizing that what you're doing will preserve the fish stock in Ontario. What are the regulation changes that you're proposing?

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources): I'm glad to have the details of the fishing habits of the Parsons family, and I wish them

well out there.

I would say to the member that what I want to be doing over the next few years is working with the anglers of this province to make sure they have a stake in

how we regulate and conserve our fish resource. Rather than taking arbitrary fishing zones and formulating our regulations over that, what I want to do is look at ecologically based zones and

basically form a type of stewardship council that would have governance over them. Working with the people who have the greatest stake in this in each community, I think we can come up with

regulations that are sensible, and not just arbitrary, based on large geographic zones.

Mr. Parsons: I believe anglers in Ontario want to do the right thing and abide by the rules, but currently they are rather confusing, to put

it mildly. There are different seasons and different species throughout Ontario. In fact, the document your ministry puts out identifying rules and regulations throughout the province is fairly

lengthy. Is there something you could do that would simplify it so that citizens don't inadvertently commit an offence and get themselves in trouble?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: That's an excellent question. I think the complexity of the fishing regulations over the years has really turned people off.

They're so complicated, and for some it's hard to figure out what the intent is. We're going to reduce the number of fishing zones to these ecologically based zones. They will be sensible and

understandable. We want to make sure that anglers in this province have an understanding of that and have confidence in what they're doing, so that when they go out with their family, as the member

does, and enjoy the pursuit of angling across this province, they're able, with great confidence and assurance, to know that they are obeying the law and regulations and providing for the

conservation of our fish.

HIGHWAY INTERCHANGE

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): I have a question for the Minister of Transportation. As you well know, we've had dialogue regarding the

Stevenson Road interchange in Oshawa over the past months. I'm hearing various things about the timelines for construction, the start of the project and what's happening with Stevenson Road. We've

heard it has been delayed for a four-year process. I have since found out that part of the reasoning was to minimize the impact on traffic, and lately I've heard that it has gone to five years. Can

you update the Legislature as to what is actually going to take place with the Stevenson Road interchange?

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): I am very pleased to let the member know that we are making steady progress on the

project he talked about. The Stevenson Road project is about a $57-million project. It's large, it's complex and it requires various stages of construction. We are ready to award the contract to

start construction on this new interchange in Oshawa, pending, I think, one final acquisition of property; 20 of 21 properties have already been acquired. We are moving ahead with this project.

The Speaker (Hon. Alvin Curling): I just want to commend the members for an excellent question period. We moved along nicely.

PETITIONS

HEALTH CARE

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): I'm pleased to be recognized first for a change.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Liberal government has announced in their budget that they are delisting key health services such as routine eye exams, chiropractic and

physiotherapy services; and

"Whereas abandoning support for these services will place greater demand on other health care sectors such as physicians, emergency wards and after-hours

clinics; and

"Whereas no Ontario citizen should be denied access to necessary medical care because of lack of funds;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"To reverse the" reckless "delisting of eye exams, physiotherapy and chiropractic services and restore funding for those important and necessary services."

I am pleased to support and endorse this on behalf of my constituents of Durham.

CREDIT VALLEY HOSPITAL

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I have a petition regarding the Credit Valley Hospital from a group of residents in the Lisgar area, and

it reads as follows:

"Whereas some 20,000 people each year choose to make their home in Mississauga, and a Halton-Peel District Health Council capacity study stated that the Credit

Valley Hospital should be operating 435 beds by now, and 514 beds by 2016; and

"Whereas the Credit Valley Hospital bed count has remained constant at 365 beds since its opening in November 1985, even though some 4,800 babies are delivered

each year at the Credit Valley Hospital in a facility designed to handle 2,700 births annually; and

"Whereas donors in Mississauga and the regional municipalities served by the Credit Valley Hospital have contributed more than $41 million of a $50-million

fundraising objective, the most ambitious of any community hospital in the country, to support the construction of an expanded facility able to meet the needs of our community;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care undertake specific measures to ensure the allocation of capital funds for the construction of A and H block at

Credit Valley Hospital to ensure the ongoing acute care needs of the patients and families served by the hospital are met in a timely and professional manner, to reduce wait times for patients in

the hospital emergency department, and to better serve patients in the community in Halton and Peel regions by reducing severe overcrowding in the labour and delivery suite."

I thank, especially, Susan Ksiezopolski and Joan Hongens of Lisgar. I'm pleased to sign this petition and ask Nathan to carry it for me.

ANTI-SMOKING LEGISLATION

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the current government has proposed province-wide legislation that would ban smoking in public places; and

"Whereas the proposed legislation will also prohibit smoking in private, non-profit clubs such as Legion halls, navy clubs and related facilities as well;

and

"Whereas these organizations have elected representatives that determine the rules and regulations that affect the membership of the individual club and

facility; and

"Whereas imposing smoke-free legislation on these clubs disregards the rights of these citizens and the original intention of these clubs, especially with

respect to our veterans;

"Therefore, we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Parliament of Ontario exempt Legion halls, navy clubs and other non-profit, private or veterans clubs from government smoke-free legislation."

I affix my signature in support.

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty and his Liberal government were elected based on their promise to rebuild public services in Ontario;

"Whereas the Minister of Community and Social Services has announced plans to close Huronia Regional Centre, home to people with developmental disabilities,

many of whom have multiple diagnoses and severe problems that cannot be met in the community;

"Whereas closing Huronia Regional Centre will have a devastating impact on residents with developmental disabilities, their families, the developmental

services sector and the economies of the local communities; and

"Whereas Ontario could use the professional staff and facilities of Huronia Regional Centre to extend specialized services, support and professional training

to many more clients who live in the community, in partnership with families and community agencies;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the government to keep Huronia Regional Centre, home to people with developmental

disabilities, open, and to transform them into `centres of excellence' to provide specialized services and support to Ontarians with developmental needs, no matter where they live."

I'm very pleased to present this to Madison.

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): I'm pleased to present yet another petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas many volunteer fire departments in Ontario are strengthened by the service of double-hatter firefighters who work as professional, full-time

firefighters and also serve as volunteer firefighters on their free time and in their home communities; and

"Whereas the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association has declared their intent to `phase out' these double-hatter firefighters; and

"Whereas double-hatter firefighters are being threatened by the union leadership and forced to resign as volunteer firefighters or face losing their full-time

jobs, and this is weakening volunteer fire departments in Ontario"; -- and indeed my riding -- "and

"Whereas Waterloo-Wellington MPP Ted Arnott has introduced Bill 52, the Volunteer Firefighters Employment Protection Act, that would uphold the right to

volunteer and solve this problem concerning public safety in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the provincial government express public support for MPP Ted Arnott's Bill 52 and willingness to pass it into law or introduce similar legislation that

protects the right of firefighters to volunteer in their home communities on their own free time."

I'm pleased to present this petition to Trishaala and sign it on their behalf.

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): I'm pleased to present a petition as well. I misplaced my glasses, so I might have a little

struggle here, but anyway, we're going to give it a go.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty and his Liberal government were elected based on their promise to rebuild public services in Ontario; and

"Whereas the Minister of Community and Social Services has announced plans to close the Rideau Regional Centre, home to people with developmental disabilities,

many of whom have multiple diagnoses and severe problems that cannot be met in the community;

"Whereas closing the Rideau Regional Centre will have a devastating impact on residents with developmental disabilities, their families, the developmental

services sector and the economies of the local communities;

"Whereas Ontario could use the professional staff and facilities of the Rideau Regional Centre to extend specialized services, support and professional

training to many more clients who live in the community, in partnership with families and community agencies;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the government to keep the Rideau Regional Centre open as a home for

people with developmental disabilities and to maintain it as a `centre of excellence' to provide specialized services and support to Ontarians with developmental needs, no matter where they

live."

I affix my name to this petition.

CREDIT VALLEY HOSPITAL

Mr. Tim Peterson (Mississauga South): It's a pleasure to rise today and petition the Ontario Legislative Assembly about the Credit Valley

Hospital capital improvements.

"Whereas some 20,000 people each year choose to make their home in Mississauga, and a Halton-Peel District Health Council capacity study stated that the Credit

Valley Hospital should be operating 435 beds by now, and 514 beds by 2016; and

"Whereas the Credit Valley Hospital bed count has remained constant at 365 beds since its opening in November 1985, even though some 4,800 babies are delivered

each year at the Credit Valley Hospital in a facility designed to handle 2,700 births annually; and

"Whereas donors in Mississauga and the regional municipalities served by the Credit Valley Hospital have contributed more than $41 million of a $50-million

fundraising objective, the most ambitious of any community hospital in the country, to support the construction of an expanded facility able to meet the needs of our community;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows: