Volume XLI Tuesday Province of Newfoundland FORTY -FIRSTGENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND First Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush Number 11 13 June 1989

The House met at 2:00p.m . Ml~. SPEAKE!~ (Lush): Order, please! Statements by Ministers MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the Minj ster of JusU.CE!. MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As Minister responsible For the Office of thE'! LE!gislat.iVE! Counsel, pursuant to

Section 18 of The Statutes And Subordinate L<:~gislat.i.on Act, I am rE!quir·c~d to lay before the House of Assembly a copy of the subordinate legislation filed under that Act. Accordingly, I table the E!ditions of The Newfoundland Gazette published between April 8, 1988 and May 12, 1989. MR . SIMMS : A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, thE! hon . thE! Opposition House Leader. MR.

SIMMS : It appears to me what the han. minister has there is probably something that should be tabled under reports and probably has just inadvertently risen at the wrong occasion, because it does not sound like a statement. Oral Questions SOME HON. MEMBERS: I-IE!i.H', hear! MR. MATTHEWS : Mr. Speaker I. S 19 June 13, 1989 Vol XLI MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Grand Bank . MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Mr . Speaker . My questjon, quite naturally today, .is to the~ MinistE!r of HE!alth (Mr. DE!CkE!ln), lAJhom I tAJou1cl have to refer to today as the Schizophrenic Minister of Health.

I would like to refer the minister to a letter that hE! tJ.Jtnot.E! to the Chair·man of thE! Hospital Cou11n.i I:. tee in St. Li:~wrE:!l1CE:! in August of 1986, whE!re he infor'tned Uw Cha:'Lr'lllcHl of tJw Cornrnit.tE!E! hoL1J p1noud h0! t.~.Jas Lo tAJear thE!.iln button, suppor··t i.ng l.:hE! continuation of their hospJtaJ, which T am wearing onE• of today, and ·it rE!clds 1 I suppot~t l:.hE! continued operation of the U.S . Memorj.aJ.

Hospi taJ.. 1 As tJ.JE!] J., h< ' attacked the Tory party for closing doum rural NetJ.JfoundJ.and and shutting down schools, h o s pi t. a l s a n d f i s h p 1 a n·t s , a n cl said: "If uJO dlnE! going to kt:!<C!p rural NewfoundJ.and, t.hen lAJE! hd.Ve to find a way to keep schools, hospitals, employment and everything el.s1:~ in Net~JfoundJ.ancJI' and Labrador opE!n. On pagE! 2 he says: "If l:he t.~.d.ll is Uwr'< :!, it. can be donE!. So, Mr.

SpeakE!r, my qu<:!s t.-:i.on to the minister is: How could he, tn such a short l.::itTlE!, Frorn be'.:ing an Opposition health critic to becoming MinistE!r' oF Health today in this Province, a very responsible positJon, change so rnuch? Why did he 1nake such a b r u t. a J. a n d c a 11 o u s d E' c i s :i o n o n t I"H=! St. Lawrence and Gr·a.nd Bd.nk hospitals? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hecH'! MR. SPEAKE!\: The h on . the M:i n :i. s t E! r of HE! a J t: h . No . 11. R I~ .19

MR. DECKER : Mr. Speaker , I thank the hon . member for his question. I should say right off the top, Mr. Speaker, if the han. member wants to make this a political issue it is up to hirnsE!lf. This governrnE!nt has no ultE!rior motiVE! of doing any harm to the people in Grand Bank or St. LawrE!nCE! or anywhere else in this Province. What we are dojng is we were E!ntrusted on Apr·il 20 to get out and to spend the health dollars belonging to the people of this ProvinCE!.

We wer'e i.nstructE !d to spend thE!In IAlisely, fairly, and spend thE!Tn so that WE! can dE!J.iVE!r the best possible health care that we can deliver for the dollars that we have. Now that is the tone, that is the• environrne!nt that we are working in whE!n we attE!Illpt to do somE:~thing with thE! few health dollars that we have. WE! attE:,rnpt l:o giVE! thE! best rnE:~dical care that we can give undE!r the rules that we have to play with. Now as for the letter , Mr. Speaker, I happE!n to have the samE! letter here . I stand by this letter just as strongly today as I did in 1986 .

There is nothing said in this letter which contradicts what I arn saying today . ThE! han. minister says that we are going to tear down rural Netufoundland. The last paragr'aph says: 11 If WE! are going to keep rural Newfoundland, then we have to find a way to keep schools, hospitals, employment and everything else in rural NE!Wfou ndland. 11 Now, I be 1 iE!V e that and I mE :•i:Hl that. On August 13 if sornE!One in St. Lawrence, or someone tn Grand Bank, needed thE· SE!ruices of a specialist they had to come to St. John's to do jt.

WE! aro today going to open extra beds in Burj .n, which by my I_ 1)20 June 13, 1989 Vol XLI defi.n:i.t:i.on :is rural Newfoundland. That is rural Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker . So, in answer to the lettE!r he quoted, 1.uh ich Ls a l:i .tt1e bit of f thE! topic, I i'liTI ac; committed today to Burin, to Nain, and to other parts of rural Newfoundland just as much as l::he han. member is. Thank you, Mr. Speaker . SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hoar, hear! MR . SPEAKER: The hon . the member for Gra nd Bank. Mr~. MATHI EWS : A supplelnE!ntary, Mr. SpE!akor .

I would challonge thE.~ rn:i.n"i-;;.t:E!r to IJJear thE! vE•ry sarnE! button tha t he so proudly wore ju st a short t.i.me ago. As wel1, I do not.: kno~AJ of any cornrnun:ity in Nowfoundldnd thdl: is any rnore rur~J than St. Lawr·once, Little St. l.awr ·r:•n ce, Larnaline, Point May, Grand Bank, Fortune, Garnish or· Fronchrnan 1 s Cove. That is rural Ne1.ufounc!Jancl to rne. That is what it means. I would like to ask the ln·i.n ist t:!r' what will happen to the pati ent s now accommodated in the St. Lawrence and Grand Bank hospitals? What will happen to the E!\TlployeE!S, thE• 1 J 0 ernployc E!S now employed?

Will they end up on the welfare rolls of th is Province? What thi s government is do :Lng, is this anot :her example of its job creation E!fforts that HlP Premier so proudly oozed and talked about in the election campaign? Is this the job cr· eat :ion pr'o g r·am.? SOME HON. MEMBERS : I-IE!ar, hear! MR . SPEAKER : No. 11 1\ 1)20

The han. the Minister of Health. MR . DECKER: The first part of the question, Mr. Speaker, refers to the patJ.E?nts. On a normal day in ~)t. Lawrence or in Grand Bftnk there are cli .nj cs in both of these hospitals. PeoplE! carne in for· blood chE!cks, people comE! in to have their prescriptions renewed, they carne in v.d th colds, they comE ! in with various illnr:?sses, as all other people thl ~oughout the IAJorld hftve, and that lAiilJ. not. che1nge. The normal day to day operation of thr-.~ hospitals .in St. LawrencE! and Grand Bank w:.i 11 not changE·.

WE! arE! closing down the bc:?ds . lhght now there are fifty beds in the two hospitals being operated SO per· ct=?n t. of thE! timE!. Fj ft.y pE!I" cent of that, one quarter of the beds, arE! bE?ing used for chr·onic care. It is no ·t the proper E!nvironrnE?nt for us to be treating our chronicly ill people in . I have to tE!ll the hon. TTlE'rnbE?r that we ar·e very much awar·e that ther·e is a problem w:i th chronic carE? on l:he Bur·in Peninsula. We intend to address that and we intend to find a solution to that, but this is not thE! right and propE!r solution, Mr. Speaker.

We are go.inr:3 to attempt to so] VE! that problem but you cc::tnnot mix applr:!S and oranges, it is two different problE:Hns. TilE! Royal Cornrn:iss:ion suggested that in some cases it mJ .ght bE! rE-asonable arid sensiblE! to changE? acute care bE?ds into chronic car·e bE?ds. That is possible::• in somE! cases but it is not always possible in all cases . It rni g h t or rrLi g h t not be poss:i b].E! in St. Lat.~.JrenCE! and Grand Bank, and that has to be looked at·, Mr. SpE:~akel~.

But we cannot jump in and 1nake theSE! hasty decjsions until we see precisely whE!l:.l'wr or not it is proper for· the pE!OpJ.e of that area. That is the first part of the question, LS21 JunE ! 13, 1989 Vo1 XLI patients, Mr ~ Speaker . The second part of the question is about E!TTiployeE•s. The bottom J :i ne is that at the end of the day therE! wi 11 be so 111 e j o b 1 o s s . Yes , that is a fact. There are sixty-six permanE?nt jobs ther·e right now in thl';?Se hospitals .

While this Budg et Speech was being read, officials from my dopar·t1nent. were sitting w:ith the union in our board room, dolAm in my offiCE!, i3.nd thPy werE! discussing the prob]E!rn :;; with employees and they wer e trying l:o co1ne to sorne l"l': !a";onab]('• conclusion, Mr . Speaker ·. n1.:1l:. process is still gojng on. We also met with the repre sentat ive frorn thE! Nul~SE!S' Union, so th at has bE!E!I'l going on . fho bottom J.i .ne is therE! IAri lJ bE! ~;olliE:! E!lnployees lost.

T should say, l:hough, that had l.:hc::! prev:ious governrnont done what they knew wa s r i g h t , a n d h a d tiH! y t a J<E:! 11 l .. h E'! prop c:.~ r action, which they kneiAJ tJJas right l.:iAJo year·s ago, then sorne of these employeos, a lot of these empJoyees, could have been absor·b(>d into l:he nelAJ ho sp.it:al i.n Bur:in. You SE!E~. in the E!nd, :i.r you 1nake wrong decisions t·:.hen l:hoy arE! going l:o comE• back and haunt. you. It is just those hon. mEnnbers now arE~ not s:itti.ng wher·e WE! are, they do not havE :! t.o pa.y the shot, IAJE! have to ·t.:ake thE '! results of their inactions . MR.

SPEAKER : The hon . thE! ~nember· ·for· Crand Bank . MR. MATTHEWS : M r . S p e a k e r , 1: h E! p e o p l e i n i: h E• Crand Bank and St . Lawrence hospi l:als did not want l:o l!Jor ·k in Burin, they want ed lo work in their OlAJn cornmun :il:y. Thai: ::Ls lAJha i: this governlfiE?nl ha s be en t: ry:in~J l:.o push down peop lE !' s thr ~oa t s l::hc> J.ast six ty days in this Province . No. ll. R ~) 2 :J

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. MATHl EWS : And l:h1~ minis LE!r should carne clr:!an and bE• honE!St in this House b(~cause that is what lAJe are expected to be he~e. There are 110 people working in those two hospitals, not sixty-six. He would like us to believe that. Min. SpE:1aker·, another supplernE!ntary: Wi.ll the Minister change his mind and immediately reVE!r'se his decis·.ion and kE!ep those two hospitals open? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of HeaJ.th . MR. DECKER: Mr. SpE:~aker, it :is not a s.irnplE! answer, nor IAJas it a ~;jmple dE! c i s ion .

I f i t was a s i rn p 1 e answer·, if this Province WE!re filthy rich, and if we could afford to put hosptials in Deer Lake, hospitals in the Leader of the Opposition's district, in GrE!at Harbour DeE!p, if we could afford to put hospita]s in every single village in this Province, YE!S. thE! ansWE!In would be YE!S, Mr. SpE!aker, WE! would do it. And I wou1d be the most popular Minister of Health in !':he history of Canada, not just NetArfoundland and Labrador.

I would love l:o be able to say, 11 Yes, I tAdJ.l changE! my decision and put hospitals eVE!rywhE!re. 11 But, Mr. ~)pE!aker, I am bound by certain fiscal realities; thE!r'E!fore I cannot say yes to Grand Bank and I cannot say yE!S to St. LalAJrenCE! unU 1 I can say yes to Oerc~r Lake~ and yes to LewisportE• and yes to North East Brook and yes to EddiE!S Coue East. When I can say yes to these questions, Mr.

SpE!ak1:-r, Lhr::!n I IAJi.JJ. say yes to St. l..aiAlr'E'nCE! and Gl"and Bank. 13u l: ·i.n the rrJ!'::1ant:irne I am, in this dE!partment, asked to LS22 June 13, 1989 Vol XLI represr::~nt all of l:he this ProvincE! dollars wisely. exact.J.y ~JiUE!n a and We U (!Jny l:oo k t.hi s state when we affairs of Therefore, WE! proper and hau e i:o what fiscal pE!Op1E! ·.in spEHld our IJJE !re not. good fiscal o~Jer the considering the which the han. rnernb E! r s Prouinct:'. do what is :i~~ r·:ighl.: r'E!str·aints infJ.jcted upon us. MR. SPEAKER : ThE! hon. t.hE! member for Grand Bank . MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Th:is l:iHIE! 1ny qUE!st:ion :i~; Lo l~l-1(' Minister of Finance (Dr. Kitchen). I would like th0 Wordless Wonder, Lhe Confused Min~istE!r of FinanCE!, to stand :in his place and inform this hon. House ho1Al much monE!Y is budgEd:(=!d this year, in his nE!W Budq(;d:_, For· thE! Grand Bank and ~3t. LaiJJr(!nCE' hospitals. How much money .i.s budgeted :Ln the budget fol" Gi"i.H1d Bank and St:. LawlnE!nCE!? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Min:.i.stE!r' of Finance . DR. KITCHEN: Mr. SpeakE!r, there is no morwy in the Budget for these hosptials. MR. SPEAKER: rhe hon. the mr::~rnber for· Gr·and 13dnk. MR.

MATTHEWS: Min. SpE!akE!r, WE! haUE! seon il. again, l:he M'in'ister JJJho did not know thE! differE!nCE! bE!LiAJE•en a numerator and a deno111ina l::or, IAJho could not calcuJ.atE• a tax Fonnu]a that calcu1at:.nd the tax bur·den of th~i .s Prou~i.nce cornparE!d to the Y'E!s ·L of i:hc:• cou ntr·y. HE! dOE! s noi:. k no1.u now if there is a cent budgeted for Gr·and Bank or· Sl: .. Lawrence hospi .taJ.s . No. 11 I~ 1)2 2

MR . R. AYLWARD : Ther'e is none, there is none. Ml~. MATTHEWS: If you are going to close down the hospitals immediately, there is somEd:hing has to bE! done with the patients, ther-e is something to be done with the staff. Will the Minister stand in his place, t:hen, and telJ. us hOIAJ much money is in his new Budget for contigent arrangements because of these shutdowns? How much is budgeted for - that? SOME HON. MEMBERS : The Minister of Finance! MR. WINDSOR: He is not allowed to speak . MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Health. Ml~ .

DECKER: The han . the MinistE!r of FinancE! cannot be expected to know all the details of a bilJ.ion dollar budget. Mr. Speaker, we have allocated for the operation of the two community health centers, one in St. Lawrence and one at Gr-and Bank, $1.2 million. ThE! hon. Minister of Finance thought you were asking what was there for net~J hospital. construction. WE! arE! not talking about new hospitals, Mr. SpE!aker. w(:~ arE! ta1king about $1 .2 rnill :ion, wherE! we are going to oper-ate two c1ini.cs, onE! at ~-Jt .. Lawrence and one at Grand Bank . St.

L.awl~ence and Grand Bank will be open twenty -four hour's a day. People will be able to go for X-rays, for blood tests, if someone gets a sever'e pain in t:hE:• abdornE!n, he 01~ she is rusl ·11:•d :i.nl:o the hospJ tal at Grand Bank. Then :• will be holding beds there so that the person can be stab] :lzNJ. If .it is SC!en, after a fE!W hours in the holdJ .ng bE!d , th~ =!re is no major LS23 June 13, 1989 Vol XLI prob]E!ITI, thE!Il that per-son w"i.l1 be SE!nt back to his home, or tAJhab,~ver the casE! might be . But if there is a major problem, that person w:LJ.I bc,, thE!n rushed to Ll·1c:!

CE!n trE! in rural NE!Wfoundland, .in Sal!: Pond, Mr. SpeakE!r'. He do€'!S not have to be bought into St. John 1 s. It: can bE! donE• right: :i.n rural Newfoundland, in Burin, where we have eleven specialist on staff, Mr. SpeakE!r, IAJher e wt '! are going to open up another thirty-five beds. That is what w:il.1 happE•n, Mr. Sp~:!akE!r. That is going to co st us an extra $1 .2 million,

whereas pre sently th e s t r u c t U r E! is CoS t i I' I g Us ~S 3 . l'l million, Mr. Speaker. And I should poJnt out - I have it somewhere in my notes -- that in total on !:hE ! whol e Bur :i.n Peninsula we are spending morE ! rnoney .in health than has ever be en spent before in the history of Newfoundland and Labrador . Thi s is what we are doing. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear'! · MR. DECKER: WE! al~e spending sornetAJh er-e in th e vicin:i .t.y of $2 miJJ:Lon ancl ~n million extra, Mr. SpeakE!r, in the Burin Peninsula . We look at t hE" whole area and we are spending morE! monE!Y than E•ver bE!f"CH 'E•.

And, Mr . Speaker, w€~ are delic;c~l~i .ng a health care system which is better than it has ever beE!n bc~For e and which tAJi11, "in thE· J.ong nJn, become a model for the re st of NetA~oundland and Labrador. SOME HON . MEMBERS : liE! a r , he a~~ ! MR. SPEAKE!~ : ThE ! hon. thE! lrH:!Inber fo r' Grand Bank . MR. MAT THEWS : No. ll R I) 2 3

Mr. Speaker, what is frightening about ULi.s .is that that rrrinisbH' b~:J.iE:~ves that. He has not consultc~d wil:h the people of thE! arE:~a. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Never. M". MATTHEWS: The first thE! people knew of thE! decision to close the hospital was IAJhen the :i.ncompetent Minister of FinanCE! read it in his Budqet Sp(:~ech. Another qUE!S bon I IAJould like to ask the Minister of fiE!al th, and I want him to bE! honE•st. dnd I IAJoul.d ask h.im to obc.::~y the rul.es of the House and be fair: How many acute care bE!dS a~e needed to fulfil the total health care requirements of the Burj.n Peninsula?

How many chr·onic care bE·ds arc~ rE!quired l:o fulfil the total health care needs of the Burin Peninsula? And is it a coincidence that by c]osing down the Grand Bank and St. lawrence hospi taJ s. the government is going to saVE! $3.5 million, and at thE:~ samP titTI(:~ thE•y are going to spend $3 .5 million in Roddick ton, in the minister· 1 s district, for a new health catne complex? Will hE~ ansWE!r that? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DECKER: Mr. SpE!aker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health. MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, if the han. member wants to get doum in the mud and slime, that is up to h.irn.

But I am not going to gEd:: doum in any rnud or· sLLme or dirt, Mr. 3peakc,~r. that is not in rny nature. That is up to the hon. rnernber. LS24 Junr:! 13, 1989 VoJ XLI In fairness, though, there :is an illusion being given by han. mE!tnbr::~rs opposite, and I th:ink I should clatnify :it. ThE! budcjot whj ch I saw did not inc] ude $3.5 million for Roddickton. It is not there. When we took over thjs governrnE:~nt we inherii:od cE:!tnt.a.:i.n programs which were ongoing. There is a health clinic which happens to be in my dj .s t:rict. It. happens to bE! in thE~ very toiAJn in IAJhich I l:iVE!, in Roddickton.

It SE!tnves St. Ju~l:ian 1 s and Cr-oql .W uJhich is for·ty- -five rnilE!S aLuay on a gravel road. It serlJes Englc•e, IAJhi .ch :is twE•lve tn:L:I.es a1.-1ay on a gravel road. rt serves Main B r o o k , t h j.r· t y m i.J E'! s a 1.-1 a y o n a gravel road. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Answer the question! MR. DECKER: That, Mr. SpeabH', is par·t of l:he question. I am dealing uri t.h part: of thE! question. One million dollars of this year 1 s Budget is allocated to continue on with that program, which, I shou1d say, my good Friend Dr.

Twomey steered through Cabinot, and I knoiAJ thE• problems he had gE:!'l.tj ng it through. SOME HON. MEMBERS: liE!ar. hE!ar! MR. DECKER: So it is an ongoing program . If we had wanted to stop that, there is already $700,000 spent in site preparation and all thjs sort of thing. If we had wanted to stop :it, it uJouJd not have had bearinq on the proper USC! of hPalth dollars on the Burin P E:' n insula . I cl o not k n ot.-J if thE! hon. mernbE!Y' tAJants lllE' to canu:<l. that, but I can him that: iF tAJe dLd No. 11 R l.)24

cancel that :it wi1l not the beds on the Burin w:ill reopE!n. mean that Peninsula NotJJ, how many acute care bE!ds ar'E! needed. We tJJiJ.l have sixty acutE! care beds openE!d beforE:~ this YE!ar is over, as we phase down St. LatJJrence and Gr·and Bank and as we opE!n up thE! nE!W onE!S. We arE! hoping, Mr. SpeakE!r, that the tJ.Jay modern medicine is going, where we are getting into more homr:~ care, where we get some more chronic care bE!dS avai.1able, wE~ ar'E! hoping that SE!Venty --five beds wLIJ. bE ! enough. Now, in thE! E!Vt?.nt that it is not enough, we will have to deal with that problem too.

I shouJ.d poj nt out that the pr·osE!I'lt stJ"ucture in Burin, whE!rE•as it only has seventy-five beds, the chassis of the hospital, the basic structure of that hospital, the ki tch,~n, the dining tnooms, the bathrooms, and all this so1nt of thing, :is large enough that we can turn ·that facility into a 125 bed facility by simply adding on a ud.ng. So ther·r::' is cl contingency plan in place in case the seventy-·-five beds ar~" not E!nOtJgh. I believe they will be enough, but I am not SUrE! of that. We t;.dlJ c1noss that bridge :if we discover· that it is not enough. MR. SPEAKER : Oinder, plE!i.'ISE!!

ThE! ~3peakeln has beE!n s:iU:ing lj stening to adrnoniU.ons frc· · rir,3ht and adrnont t:ions fv lE!ft. I want mE!rnbers t0 the Chair is caLling Period and all othe r day. The hon. rr long and involvE; 'd realize that th~ long, but, in all 1 people who are in * --:/ and hon. rnernbr::'tns war . Fair ansWE!rs to these l., L525 June 13, 1989 ' cPC} ? v r was lE•tting it go . UndE!r nor·rnal circumstances I wou ld .not. If hon. mernbE!rS tAJant s hor·t an swer s they should also ask short questions. ThE:~ la st onE:!S contains thrE:~e i.nvol.VE!d qUE!~;t :i.ons .

So :if han. members want short answers, ask short questions and I w:ill ensure that the answers are short. . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR . SPEAKER : The hon. thE! rnc,!rnbEH' for Grand 13ank. MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . What tJ.JE! rninistE!r anythi.ng House. over we dE!

COrum . h a v e j us t s e en fro ITI t h j s is not go ing to do for· the ciE!Cor ·um ·.in th:i ~; Maybe before the day is t;.d11 see sornet.h:.i.ng about I just want to tell this minister, on page 23 of the Minister of Finance· 1 S BudgEd: doculnE!nl:, he ~ sr:tys spE!c:ificaJ.ly: 11 tiF fund:i.n~1 1.1.l'i 11 be provided ,ntinue the construction ·let~n health care facil.; i<Lon tAJ~ri.ch has an e" t of ~;3. :. rnillior '··he hon. m:i.n:i -'l.y that hr. · i.ng l:.o l.d . t:. :L s t:.he -:-o r· s .:o l:.he .r lE!I" thE'! J dcdogdl:: c•s t.:hE• 'K' j~:. R 52~ )

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. MATTI-I EW~) : ThE:' number of heali:h care beds on the Burin Peninsula, when thE! three cottagE! hospitals were open, was e!ighty-·-six. As the minister just admitted, there ar·e now going to be sj xty acutE! care beds. Fifteen of those in the SE!Venty --fiv~~ bed hosp:Lt:al in Salt Pond will be for extended care, care for the elderly. Does the Premier honestly think that where there were eighty-six acute care beds before and there will now be sixty, that sixty acute care beds can service the health care requirements of 35,000 people serviced on the Burin Peninsula? MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. Pl~EMIER WELLS : Let. mE~ just. makE! a quick cormnent. on the manner question was asked, Mr. SpeakE•r. in which the first of all, The slurs and comments say a great deal more about the person who thi~E!W them than the:~ per·son at whom thE!Y LJ.JerE• aimed. SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hear~-- PREMIER WELLS : Mr. SpeakE!r, the position is fairly simple and straightforward.

The two hospitals that are being closed down IJ.Jel~e bE!i.ng USE!d, i.n terms oF bE!d capacity, at about 50 pE!r cent of their capacity at the ITIOiliE!nt, and on1y 1j0 pE!r c~:!l'lt of those ar·e for· acute carE• beds. So ~i.f you took l:.he total numbt~r of acute c a r e b E! d s p r· E! s e n t 1 y i n t h e B u r i n L 1)26 June 13, 1989 Vol XLI Hosp.ita1 and added to it: l:he number of beds in St. Lato~JrE!nce and Grand Bank that were being used for acutE:! carE! purpoSE!S, s:.i xty or· so beds would be about what was nE!E!ded.

But, in any E!UE!nt, ther·e is an ability there to increase that to seventy -five, the total bE!d capacity of thE! Burin fac.iLL l:y at the moment . As the Minister of Health has said, thE! building is construct2d in such a manner as to prouide For a n ad d i t i o n , i f a n d l.o~JI'H:! n i l: becornE!S necessar·y, and he ~;tal· ~ed the posit .ion c1E•ar1y on thai: . That seenlf.; to rne t.o be an E!lninE!rd:ly reasonable and sensib'l1:• way to deal with health care. MaybE! that is why the hon. rnernbel" has difficulty understanding it. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr . Speaker. MR .

SPEAKER: The hon , the rneiTibE!r for Gr ·and Bank . MR . MATTHEWS: A supplementary to this misleading, misdirected, deceitful Premier who went around this Prouince - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. MATTHEWS: "----·h··- - in my very area oF the Province, and prorrri.sed that hE! would op~HI more hospital beds. Mr. Speaker, wha.t hE! '.i_s doing on the Burin PE!ni nsu1a i.s he :i.s cutting tiAJE.~nty bE!ds. NoL.u, how can th:i.s PI"E!In:i.er, who IAJenL ar·ound l:h:is Prou:ince and askE!d For· ~~~he suppur-L of Newfoundlander s and Lab1~adorians, do such an about---facE:!?

Wj 11 hP stand :i.n h ::i s place and answer to the people, ansiJJE!r to t.he gal lE! ri.es, and Le11 No . 11 I~ 1)26

them why he could do such an c1bout·-face and why he:~ could be so deceitful? Because he accomplished political success by deCE:dt .. That is lJJhat he di.d, MJ". Speaker. · SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER WELLS: fhe han. member knows that t:hr::; word 'deceit' is an unparliamentary word. MR. WARREN: It is not unparliamentary . PREMIER WELLS: It is. But, again, it says mor·e about thE:' hon. ITIE~JTJber than it dor:~s about 1:he pE!r·son against whom it is dirE!Ct.ed. The answer, Mr. Speai<E!r', is that the assumption is incorrect to start with.

I did not go about this ProvinCE! saying what the hon. mE!TilbN' said. Her'E! is what we said. Here is our stated posi-tion. MR. SIMMS: l.et us hear it .. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! PREMIER WELLS: Just listen and you will hear it . Our stated position is we were going to stop and reverse the trend of the government of closing hospital bE~ds in the hospitaJ.s of this Province because they could not afford to keep them open. That is exactly what we said. MR. WINDSOR : But you are going to open another one up in Roddickton. SOME liON . MEMB E I~S: HE!ar, hear·!

I_ 1) 2 7 JUnE! 13, 1989 Vol XU PREMIER WELLS: I lAiill ansLI.Jer it: if l:hey lJJant lrJE! to, if they do not wanL J'fl(;! tn I will sit dot~.m, Mr. Speaker. It is very simp1E!. It is VE!ry cJ E:~aJ". We intend to provide good care, hospitaJ. facilities, for the people of this Province t.klho nr::!ed it. We intend to cause to be r e o p e n e d t h e b E! d s t h a t 1: h E! f o nne r· governHJE!nt closE!d do1.~.m :Ln oul~ hospitals throughout the ProvinCE!.

We do not :i.nt:E!I1d Lo bE! so cowar·dly as to fai1 to dc!dl with the real med ical situa tion as it nE!E!ds l:o be ciE!\01-lt t.~.r.il::h, on a p rope r· b a s i s , be c au s e t: hE! f o r· If IE:! r goVE!I~nrnent did not : have Lho (3ood sense to deal with iL, or the courage to deal with it proper ·ly. WE! haVE! to do, Mr . Speaker ·, tAJhal:·, in our judgement, based on the best adv:ice that WE! can get., and we are listening to advice - MR. WINDSOR: You are not J.ist:enjng to the people.

PREMIER WELLS : We are l.istE!ning to l:hE! the Province and giving of the Province the government they want, intend to continue to do people of thE:! pE!OpJp kind or=- and Lvc so. I understand and have gr0at sympathy for· \:hE! people oF ~3t. Lawr·ence, just the sarnc! as I undE!rstand and have gr'C!al: sy1npat:hy ·for thE! p eo p 1 e of Dan :i.e J. ' s fl arbour wh E! n a JrLi n E! closes , or f' or· \::hE! people of somewhere else when a school closes, or when anything closes. People are d:irectly affected by that.

I am not a piece of stone or a piece of wood, I have feelings, too, but that sti .11 does not r·Ed:i.t:•ve rTil '! of t.he r· E! s pons i b :i 1 i 1: y , i: o <J e tlw r' t,.~.ri t h 1n y coJ1oagues in the Cab:inet, of r·unning this gover·nnwnt on a pr•opE~r be1sis, ITH :!rE!ly bE-CaUSE' -l.hP No. t 1 I~ ':i 27

former government failed to do so, oln did not have l:he courage i:o do so. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear. hear! MR. MATTHEWS: A new question to the Premier, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Grand Bank. MR. MATTHEW~): When l:h.is party \Alas in pOIJJE!r IA.Je had the courage to do what needc;~d to bE! donE! in thts Province, and this VE!ry Premier L.uas the on<:! who criticizod us for :it. But WE! did not SIJJalJ.ow hook. line and sinker recommendations from officials or Royal Commissions. We were the duly elected governmont of the ProvinCE!. SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar. hear·! MR. MATTHEWS: You, Mr.

Premier, if you do not realize it, were elected to govern this Province and not to slough things off on Commissions of Enquiry and Economic Recovery Teams. You are the Premier and you have the authority and the power to make decisions. You have the power and the authority. MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! The hon. gentleman has gr'E!at l.ibE!rty from the has been questioning pE!d.od and I would · member to get on question. He is now speech. been giVE!n Chair. He thE! whole E!XpE!Ci: tht:! with his making a Would the mell'lber· question. plE!aS e? gE!t lo his LS28 JUnE! 13, 1989 VoJ. Xl.I MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you.

Mr. ~3peakE•r. I 1:. I!Jas the decision of this caucus that I dominate QUE!St:i.on Per··iod today. for obvious rE!asons, and I a1n not going to lE!t up on this Prerrdor·­ I 1..11a n t. him to stand in h is place and answor qUE!S t.ions l:h:is uncaring, misleading, deceitful Premier - who went around thi s Province, who di.d not consult. Lt.Li .th thE! pE!OplE!, madE! prorn:isE•s, made calJous dE!Cisions afler·wards. Is he now go:ing to tr·eai: l:hE! people of St.

Lawr·enCE! and Crand flank. and have th E~ Irl cornpar·E·d. bE~co1ne l:.he Be:ijing of NE~t ... rfoundJand ar1d Labr·ador under this Pl"C:!fllir::•r. whom I referred to yesterday as Nor iega? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hear! Ml~. MATTHEWS: Why does lhe Premier no t be honourable as he intends to be stand in his place and adlJrjt _ he lied to the people of Province just thirty days ago? lied! MR . SPEAKER: Order . a~; and l:ha l this l-Ie The hon. the rnernbE!r.

IJJho just. took his seat, I think engaged in a couple of instances of unparliamentary language that cannot.: be accepted, particuJarly when hE! accuses t:he PremiE!r of J.y:i.ng. I ask t.he hon. gentleman to please make a retraction. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I respect Your Honour's request, and 1 respect the operations of this hon. House, but one thing lhat I have been known for in my seven or eight years as a Jrl(!lflber· or t.h::i~; . ·1 . b . I Leg1s. ature 1s e1ng 1one st. I bE~J. :ieVE! in telling the tr·ut .h. And everything I halJ( ~ sa.id -toda y, No . 1 J r~ ~i 2 a

about this particular Premier, I bE!J.ieve to the bottom of my hear·t: and soul, bE!CaUSE! he has achieVE!d political success by being dE!Ceitfu1. I stand by that, Mr. Speaker, and I will not retract. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: I will make a further effort to ask the hon. gE•ntle1nan to make~ a rE!tract:ion. Wi .thout any holdup at all, without any doubt in rny mind, h~" sa:id the Pl~~:!rrd.E!r l:iE!d and, ful"ther, that \:hE! Prt:'m:ier Loas deceitful. I am asking the member whether he is going to make a withdrawal of that particular statement, unequivocally. MR. MATTHEWS : Mr.

Speaker, I rE!SpE!Ct. your r·equest. Again, I· really respr;~ct your rE!quest, but I consider mysGlf to bE! a g E! n t l E! man of prind .ple and, first of all, to stand up· for the people I was electE!d to LegislaturE!, doi n~~ today. represent in this and that is what I am SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! PREMIER WELLS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : The han . the Premier . PI~EMIER WELLS: I could take the normal course and SE!ek to have \:he hon. membE!Y' removed, because his behaviour disqualifies him from sitting in the House at the moment and he should bE! r·ernOVE!d from thE! House. MR.

SIMMS: ~i'hat:-a.--r;--·you doing? I_ 1) 29 June 13, 1989 Vol XU PREMIER WEI IS : thE! hon. ITIE!nlber. I am answering He has as kE!d a addrE!ssing i.t. question and I d.ITI SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! I just thought the Premier was making a statement to my ruling that would assist in the ruling before I finally made the rul.inr::~. and :i.F hon. ITIE!IIIber··s do not. IAJanL the Pr·ernier i:o make a sl:i:'li:emenl:, that :i.s f:inE!. I a111 pr'E'par·ed l.:o Jnt'l.ke t:hE! ruling.

Again, for l:hE! th.i1"d i:.ilfle, I a~;k thr:1 hon . member · :if he would, indE!E!d, retl~act l:hc~ stab:11flE '!I1ts he made about thE! Prerni(!r 1y:i ng and bE!ing deceitful, because we cannot haVE! these kinds of stat.emonts on the records of the House. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. SpE!aker·, you cannot change the l:rui:h, not on your life. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER: In that event, having asked the hon. member three ljmes to retract, I ha.VE! no cho:LcE! but to namE! thE! hon. mE•rnbE!r.

I lAd] 1 na1r1e the hon. mernbE!r and ask hi.rn to leave the Chamber and ask the hon. the Government House Leader (Mr. Baker) t. o mel k e the appro p r :i atE' motion. I wtll name t.he rnernber by name: William Matthews. SOME HON. MEMBER~: Hear·, hear! · MR. SPEAKER : J U S t t 0 ~H ~ 1 p the hon . the Government:. flouse l.eader, maybe he No. 11 I~ 529

and han. nlE'mbE!rs w:.i.lJ. lAJant to pr·ocE!ed !Arith Questton Period, and after Question Period they might come to the motion. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question Period is up. MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has elapsed. Before we go to Orders of the Day, if han. gE!ntJ.ernen wouJ.d pE!lnmit, I will ask the han. the GovE·r·nmen{: House Leader to deal with the expulsion, l:hc:~ naming, if he !AJants to do it now. MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. SpeakE!r, WE! undE!rstand what has happened, WE! rE:~grE!t what has happened, and I would rnove that the han. member bE! out of the House for one minute. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hE•ar! MR. SIMMf3: Mr. Speaker, WE! appr·eciate the intestinal fortitude of the President of the Council for finally making a motion against the advice of the Premier. I lAJOuld now indicatE! to him cJ.early that this motion is debatable and we fully intend to debate the motion, if Your Honour rules that is acceptablE!. Mr·.

Speaker, having made that declaration, I might add for Your Honour 1 s benefit, of cour·se- I am sure Your Honour is fully aware of this, in any ~:'!Vent - that sincE! there was not an appropriate oppor·t:unity to get up, bE!Cause there IAJerE:! no intE:!rruptions or ini:ervent.:ions, I should point: out to mernbE•rs oF thE! House that somE! of the dt:!scr·ipttve adjE!CtiVE!S used L. ~>3 0 Jum~ 13, 1989 Vol XLI by my coJ.JeagUE!, the HlE!ITiber f"o!" Grand Bank, whilst they rnay have sounded a bit rough and tough, haue on occasion been ruled par]jamE!nl:ary.

I would r·efer· Your· H o n o u r· t o B e a u c h E! s n e , 1) 1: h E d i t. i o n I do not haVE! the 6th one in front of me, but I do not irnag:i.ne that there is much difference the Sth Edition, pagE! 110, on the bottom of the! pc~ge, LIJ~d ch r'<:!fers to words which have been ruled parliamentary since 19S8. Your Honour will see that !:he word 1 deceoive 1 has bee:~n used and ru]r:!d parLi.amentar·y. Your· Honoul" !Ali ll also sE•E! that the wo1"d 1 rnjslei:~d 1 has been used and ruled unparliamentary. So it is nol unparliamentary on all occasions for members to use those Luor·ds.

N 0 W , 0 b V i 0 U S 1 y t h E! ffl E:! lfl b E! r f 0 r· Grand Bank in his preseni: .at".i .on here today, Mr. SpeakE!r, felt. very deeply about what he was doing and he hOI1E!St]y feJ.!:. that t:hE! accusations he lAJas · rnakinr:3 l:OIAJar·ds thE! goVE!rnment and towards thE! Pr·c~rnier, !:he lE!acler of t.he government, he felt: dE!eply abcwL as well. For thE! hon. lrtelnbE!r to have the oppor·tunity to r'E!prE!SE'nt the peoplE! he IAJas E<lecl:c"d to rE:~present on an occasion ~;uch as this, in thE!

House of Assembly, I believe the han. member· should have beE! n g i v C::! 1'1 as rnu c h 1 1:>. v e r· a r:3 "' as Your Honour· did g:i.ve h:i.n1. I cornplimE!nt Your Honour, because I beJ.ieve Your Honour did g:i.ve the han. lnE!rnbE!r a fair bi i: of lever·a<:Je. I am sut'e that the dec:ision the rnernber for Gr·and Bank made in nol: being abJ.e to abide by the direction of the Chair, by th e r· u l :i n g of t. he S p E:' a k e r , 1.1.1 a s a v e r' y d·ifficu1t. decis.ion, E!Specia11y For that hon. HH'!ITibPr.

That hon. rnc.:Hnb 1:• r ..-L s a Tnt::! rnb E'ln , :i.~~ known t:.hr·oughout and cE•rtainly he i.s No. 11 I think, uJho the ProvincE!, knocun in his R:.)30

d i s t r i c l: of G r· a n d B a n k , f o r b e :i n g an honest, responsible individual, and one who would not do c'lnything hE~ d:i.d nol~ fE!E!l was right. Obviously, .in this case, Uw hon. member feels that he was right. He feels strongly about what he said, and he is, as I sajd, an honest representative of the people of Grand Bank . I am sure he felt badly because he was not able to accept Your Honour's direction. And I know he would not have donE:~ it under normal circumstances.

But I bE!lieve that what we saw today in Question Period in terms of answers given to the questions asked was enough to provoke the han. member to go as far as he did. I honestly believe that myself as an observer in this Legislature for the last ten years or so. The abuse of Question PE!d.od by ITH:~mbE!rS opposi t.E•, I belieVE!, was enough to provoke the hon. mE~mbE!r, and pE~rhaps the PrE!mier should have a talk to some of his rninistE!rS. The member asked the Minister oF Finance a question, and It was clearly obvious that the Minister of Finance had absolutely no J.dea at all.

He had absolutely no idea at all. He could not. answer the qUE!S tion. ThE!re tAJas obv:ious confusion over there. Then the Minister of health gets up and what doE!S hE! do? He abuses the Question Period, Mr. Speaker, by taking prolonged periods of time to anstAJer questions that WE!re, and I beg to differ with the Speaker in this regar·d, fairly simple questions. The hon. ITIE!rnber· asked tl'l(:• Minister· of 11c:~alth how many acute caine beds l..IJere r·E•quired l:o s e r· lJE:~ t h e p e o p 1 e o f Ut E! B u r .i n Penjnsula. A fair·J.y shor "t. anstAJer is requtrE!d t:o that questton.

How many chronic care beds were required? I beliE~VE!, Mr. Speaker, LS3l. June 13, 1989 VoJ. XLI that that is a CJUE!Sl:.i.on that requires a fairly short answer. Y E! t , U1 CO! M i n i s t e I" of H e a 1 L h to o k , I believe, nC'!arJ.y four m:inul:es t.o respond to that particular question. Mr. SpeakE!r, I stand :Ln defE!nCE :· of thE! hon. TnE!rnbE!r''s r.ighl: to say what. he said today . I stand jn dE!fE!IlCE! of the han. tnernbE!r'' s job, in dE!fE!nce of l..IJhat : hE! dj .d today and thE! tAJay hE! did it. I do not condont~, quite frank] y, rnu1nber•::; who do not respect a direction frorn thE• Chair.

But. I c<:Hl say j n defence of this hon. ITIE!JrtbC>r· l~hdl~ that is not. the sort of ac L:i .on hu would normally takE•. And [ do not.: th:Lnk clnybody on t.h:i.s s:idE! of thE! House and I do not bE• LielH! anybody on that. sidE! of l::he House t.~.JotJ]cl normally expt'Ct l:he rnell'ib::!r for Grand Bank to takE! that. k:i nd of· action. But, Your Honour·, ho was p In 0 v 0 k (! d t 0 d a y . H e c 0 u 1 d n 0 t ~J {'~ l:. the answers to his questi<':lns that he was Jooking For.

I also understand that:: tho delegations that in(•t t;.Jit:h U1e Minjster of Health and l::he Premier this morning d:id not g<e•t rnuch satisfaction at all, to say t.he least. In fact., I bel:LE!VE! Uwy were terribly distressed and disappointed with the responses thE!Y got . And ·they have only co111e F I" om G r· a n d B a n k a n d S t .

L i3.l..IJ r· u 1'1 c e today to ask for what is ln:ightfu1ly l:htdrs, to dSk thal: a decision that had been made by the previous administrat.i.on a.nd the previous government be upheld, particularly in light of the Liberal Party's pronounced philosophy all throughout the e J. e ct. ion c a n1 p a i g n j u s l:. pas t: , tAJ he t" C! thC>y certainly r::1a.vo the i1npress ton t.hat J.f E~lE!CtE!d, t:hey t;.JPr'e going to keep hospital beds open. SOME HON. MEMBFRS: No. ll. R ~.3 J

Hear, hE!ar! MR. SIMMS: Nmu, Mr, f)peaker, I hear·d t.he Premier say that :is not what thE!Y said in the election campajgn. Well, that is deba ·tabl<~ I suppose, and can be debated hithertofore. Bu l: I know f1nom speak :i ng to s orne people from Grand Bank and St . Lawrence this morning, when they were down in front of Confederation Building, that that tAJas certainJy the irnpr·essjon that those peoplE! had, and i.l: :is t:hE! irnpresston that rnany peop1r::• ar ·ound this Province had. LE!t me just quote a short sentence frorn the Liberal policy document that was in place for thE!

E.J .E!Ction campaign, of which tJJe hatJc?. a copy, obviously. It talks about U .bE!r'al health policy dictating as long as the demand exists . Ml~. FUREY: Ah, ha! MR. SIMMS : The hon. the Minister of DeveloprnE•nt says 'Ah, ha'! W(dl, what about 'Ah, ha'? ThE!rE! is no demand on the Burin PE!ninsu1a for health care. Is that what the Minister of Development is t:rying to say. AN liON. MEMBER: Thi:lt is right. MR. SIMMS: I say to you poppycock . Stick with Development and Tourism. Here is the appropr'iatE!

SE!ntence: 'Hospital beds must be kept open.' Now, that is a quote from the l_ibr:H'al Party policy document.. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear'! MR. RIDEOUT: ~··--·-------- Now he puts the 'if' on . L I~ 3 2 June 13, 1989 Vol XU MR. SIMMS : But that is tAJhat Uw documE!nt sa:Ld . PREMIER WELLS: Read all of it . MR. SIMMS: Read al1 of it. 'Institutions must not be understaffed.' MR. RIDEOUT : Right. MR. SIMMS: 'Compassion must alt.uays takE! pr ecedence over admini stration .' SOMF HON. MEMBERS : rlear, hE!ar!

MR . ~)IMMS: busJ.nc~:;~~ I am ~~c:.·ry glad l:hat Lhe IJl"OIIli OI" as ked me to read morE !. must always take 'Compassion precedence administration .' glad he asked us over busine ss Oh, am I eve r to read that! Now, Mr. SpeakE!r, WE! hav e sr::!en a great exa1nple ·of cornpc.~ss:ion by t:hi.s six tJJeek old L.l.bE!I"al GoVE!rnment. A fantasl:ic act or· compassion. Closing the hospitals in Grand Bank and ~a. LatAJI"encE!, thc:lt is compassion, t:.ha-t. is keeping hospital bed s open. Now, Mr'.

Sp~:·aker', hE!r'e :i.s anot.her little indication of how the Liberal Party, now the government, formerly the Opposition, can quickJ.y change [·:he:ir' rn:i.nds, riOL\J easily l:he wor'ld tur·ns around. A petit.:i.on was pre sented :in the Legislature by Lhe mernber, I presume - MR. DOYLE: Yes, for Grand Bank . MR. SIMMS : No. 11 I~ 1) 3?

thE! mC::~mber for Grand Bank, who lAJas fighting this bat.l:le YE!ars ago, was suppo1nted by the nouJ Minister of FishE!r'iE!S (Mr. Carter) whE!n he uJas in Opposition. Ml~. DOYLE : And Liberal Health critic, too. MR . SIMMS: 'I would strongly suppor·t. this p t=:! tit ion ' - w hi c h was as king to keE!p the hospita1s opEHl -·· 'clnd ask that the Minister of Health and his colleagues give it serious consideration and a~cede to tho reqUE!St contained thE!rein', :i.n that petition which asked For hospital beds to remain opE!I1. NolJ.J lJJhat about that suppol~t? He was the Health crH.:ic.

We got mor'E! information, M1n. SpE!akE!r, that indicates members of this Premier's own Cabinet strongly supported keeping open the hospital beds in Grand Bank and St. LawrE!nce. There was no question then of rationilization. There was no question then of whE!thE!r or not all tho beds WE!rE! used . They did not even bother to ask those questions. They said 'KeE!p thE! be!ds opE!n.' The people of Grand Bank and ~"3t . L.auwence said, 'Keep the beds opE!n,' and Uw Pr·ogr·essive ConsE·rva U.vE• Government kE!pt the beds opE!n, Mr. ~3peaker.

But this government here, which does not seem to practice what it is preaching, suggests somehow, here in thE! House today, that thE!Y did not say, 'Keep beds open . ' Here is another little interesting tidbit of information, Mr. SpeakE!r, uJe might be prepared to pass on. wrz~ might. as uJell, s·incE• we have occasion to debate this motion about 1ny colleague~. Her'(! is a letter frorn the deposed LeadE!r of I: hE• Opposition . I am L ~.3 3 June 13, 1989 Vol X l..I sur'E:~ many members over t.hel"e the front bE!nches rE!J'Tlc:!llii:JE!r uJE!l]. Cer·ta:inly thE!Y rerne1nbcr' back of him well. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: HeiH', hear! MR. SIMMS: j, n him t.he Here :is what he says : 1 IF council wishE:'S -- WE~Jl, I should not r·ead it all, should I? 'I rE!alize thE! government has been cutt.:.i.ng back on hospital services throughout thE:! Prov·.:i.nce.' A rninu l:.E:! a~JO "l.he PrE!IIl:ier said liJE! LlJE'i''l:! not 111aking any tough dec:.i.s:i .ons. The the11 Leader oF the Oppos"i.tiun, Mr'.

Barry, thought we were cutl:.:ing back on hospital services throughout the Province. 'There is a dE!f:i.n:ite need t:o retain certain facilities which are needed throughout various paJ~ts of the Pl"OVinco. rhe L:ibera] Party has just compJ.et.ed its repor·t on medical ser•Jices .in the Province and addressed th is very issue'- · I be1iuve chaiJ"ed by the Mjnister of Fisheries now. They have just completed their rE!port on rTIE!dicaJ ser·viCE!~~ :i.n the Province and addressed this very issue.

Now this is the Leader of the Liberal party just a couple of YE!ai"S ago: 'I can assurE! you l:.hat we uri.11 suppor-t the people of Grand Bank in their efforts to haVE! JTlE!dicaJ. SE!rViCE!S rE"t:ainE!d j n l:he immediatE! arE!a as J.ong as LhE~ residents requjre these faci1i ties.' Now, Mr. ~3pE!dkE!r, I 1.\JondE!r what has changE•d j n that. pC:! r·i od of LLme. We have the present Minister of Health, when he was in Opposition, in writing supporting the position of the people of Grand Bank and St. Lawrence and condemning us No. 11 R~d3

when WE! WE!rE! .in goUE!rnrnE~nt supporting the people of Grand Bank and St. Lawrence a couple of years ago. We haUE! thE! prE• sent Minister of Fisheries doing the same thing in his capacity as Chairman of this particular Committee. So what has changed? I do not quite understand. SOME HON. MEMBERS: A reaJ. change! MR. SIMMS: Ah! A real change has occurred. The on]y thing ·I can seE· that has changed, Mr. Speaker, quite frankly, is that the leadE!rship of l:hE!

Pt ·u~t:y has changed and it is, therefore, one would expect and suspect, the direction from the top, from the neJAJ leader, that thE!SB hospital beds be closE~d in Grand Bank and St. Lawrence. There is nothing else one can assume. They had the gall 'today to sit there in Quf:!stion Period, while the Galleries were full with people from t.he distri.ct of Grand Bank representing the people of the area. and toy wi t.h the mernbE:~r for Grand Bank in responding to his questions instead of coming clean and answering responsibly, thE:~ Minister of HE!alth in particular.

It was only the other day he said to mE•, 1 Why do you not: ask \TIE! some qUE!Stions. boy? 1 WeJ.l, Mr. Speaker, I can teJ.J. you now it will bE! a long day before we ask him anymore if hE! is going to get on that way. MR. R. AYLWAI~D : He cannot answer them. MR . SIMMS: Well, it is typical of the rnPmbers opposite anyway, and WE! haue all seen it. l.534 JUnE! 13, E)89 Vol XU Anyway, Mr. Speakl:!r, I just wanted to hau e a f etAJ br'i E!f lAHH'd s on U10! motion. I haue a funny fe~~l:Lng that t:hE!rE! are col. leagues on th::i s sidE! who certainly want: l:o debate this motion.

LIJho certainly L\Jant to haue something to say about the dramatic turn of euents that occurred here today, which I do not think has stood the gouermnE'!nl: in good stead to any great exb:!nt and to any great degt~eE!. I support thE! JnE!rnbE!r :i.n his presentation today and his r E! p r E! s E! n t a l: i o n s o n b e h a 1 F o F l:. h e people of Grand Bank. l!Jhom he repreSE!nts . If t.he hon. rnembE!r ' had not got Lun up t·.o rnake h:i .s rnol:ion, I lAid~:; prepar'ed to make a Jlloti on mysE<l.F.

I IAJas making a presentation my~~e] F in tc:H'JTIS oF a motion, and I lAJou'ld haue bePn prepared to moue something similar. MR. BAKER : WE!ll, support thE! tnoLi.on. MR. SIMMS: The han. membPr wi11 see if I support: the motion when thto! time COITIE!S. The hon. ITIE !ITitH:•r !Ar:i ll Sf'E'. It is non--tr·ad.it.ional to make l::lw kind of mot·ion the hon. llH'!JIIber madE!. It would haUE! bE!E!n an affront to the SpeakE'\'' had he no L gotten up l:o 1nake the tJ~ad.it::ional motion, euen though Lhe Prernier wa s try i n g to tug h :i s s 1 E! e v e a n d tE!J.] him to sit. do!Am.

That. j s not t:he l:radil:ional practiCE!, and Lhe Prt:!mier will lE!arn lhat, I guess, as time got:!s on. We tAJ".i11 suE• how the vote on the tTtolion goes tAJhen it is dt?.ba'tE!d, but I can asstnne you that. t. he tno lion !Ar.i 11 r· o c e :i u e a thorough debate before this day is ou r:~r . Ml~. SPEAKER : ThE! hon. the Pr·emiur'. No. 11 1\ 1~34-

_,. PREMIER WELLS: Mr. SpeakE!r, I hdVE! VE!ry Few cornrnE!I'lts to make tJ.d .t.h rE•spE•ct to th-.is. I t~o.dll draw han. rnernbE!r's 1 attention to the fact that two Question Per:lods have gone by and that hon. member nE!UE!r E!ven r·a:isE·d l:h~~ issue. That is how important it was to him. Two whole question periods. MR. SIMMS: He spent two hours on it yesterday . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!i.H '! PREMIER WELLS : Two Question Periods went by and he never raised the question . MR.

SIMMS : You have minister, doing it? aJ.rE!ady why do you PREMIER WELLS : accused the not kE!E!p on So today, tJ.Jhen he has a gr·andstand in the House watching him, he gets up and makes this grand gesture of calling me a liar· so he can bE! kicked out of the Ho~se for the show. It is a] l right! It is a good show! MR. TOBIN: And do you dj .sagre(;' lAJith tJ.Jhat. he sa-.id? PREMIER WELLS: Of cour·se, I disagreE! with what hE! said .· I disagree to1:ally tJ.r.ith what he said. Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has achiE!lJed his purpose.

He has gotten himse1f kickE!d out of the HouSE!, and hE! got up with a big srn:i.le and tJ.Jal.b:~d oul:. as his constituents were in the Gallery to put on a bjg show. That is what the public businE!SS of this Pr·ouince mc'>cHts to hon. mernber·s L 1)3 5 June 13, 198~ Vol XLI oppositE!. It is all a big shotJ.J for them. Largely, the members opposite are putting on a show much of the time, and thal: is what :is irnport .ant to them . ThE!Y haVE! done the same again, they dE!layed the business of th is Province.

For six months, they had the government of this Province flat on i t s b a c k , do i n g no t h :i n g !AI h .i. 1 e they fiddled, and they are fidd1ing again . That is tiJhat i.l: ITIE!ans t.o the members opposi to to b E! c o n c E! r n e d a b o u t r u n n .L n g l:. h e public affairs of this Province . Well, Mr. SpE!etkE!r, LJJe din[:! nol:: going to pa r·t.-:Lcipat.e in Lhf~l:. kind of nonsense. If they want to dr:!bal:E· aJ.J day, a]] IAJ<-·e k, l.h :.is silly motion so that the han . rnembE!r can be kicked ou 1: of Lh r;·! HouSE! and put on a show fol" hoi.s con sti t:UE!ncy, that is aLl r:i ght.

They haue the responsibility For their actions and l:ht ':!y lJ,Ji 1.], in thE! E!nd, ansWE!r l:o the E!lE!cl·:olnal:. e, a n d t h E! y w i LJ k n ow lAJ h a t t h c E!lectorat:E! 1 s respon sE• i.s tl.lhon the time comes aga in . Now, Mr. Speaker, th e government of this Province is ll'lOrE! interested in running th e afF 'a:i r' ~; oF this Province. It 111ay tJJell be t. hat. the h o n . me HI bE! In s o p p o s :i. t. r:• have genuine diff erences of opinion w:Lt.h the lAJay IAJ(:' are doing it.

They 1nay think t:hal : liJE! di "E' do:i ng it. incorrec U y, and :i.l .·. rnay well be that they may be r·ighl:. in some r·espE!Cts . On occasion I suspect l:hE!Y tnt'ly be r·i<;:~ht c'tb oui: it, but t:hE!r'e is a sensible and proper way to do it. We are prepar·ed to do it and opera te :in the proper and sensible way; we are not: pr·epared to par-L icipa·Le :Ln this kind of grand standinq and cJ.otJJning ar·ound fot' thE! shotAJ . L'll a are going to attend to the raal interests of the peopl e of th is Ptnovince <.Htd govern this Pr -ovoinu~ on a pr ·oper ba sis .. so1nelh :-.i.ng wh ic h No . L 1 l\ 53 1)

the hon. members opposite are:' clearly not used to doing. SOME HON. MEMBE~S: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The::~ hon. the Leader of the Oppos:i.t.ion. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, h~::~ar! MR. RIDEOUT: Mr·. Speaker, it. was pr·obab1y just after the election campaign that I had occasion to make a st.atemE!nt to the effect that it would not be long before the people of this Province would see the real change and the rE!al leade:~rshj .p that was eh'!c ted on Apr·il 20. Mr.

Speaker, if therE! was any doubt about. it, we see today the arrogance and the hobnail--boot approach that the Premier himself" is taking with a member of this Legislature, legitimatE!ly electE!d to SE!rvc::e thE! best interests of his constituents, MR. WARREN : He was not even elected with us on April 20. MR. RIDEOUT: Yes, he was Legislature himself. MR. WARREN: not elected to in the normal And he was not even elected. MR. RIDEOUT: this way Yes, for a person who was not electE!d to this Lec,;)islature:~ in the normal way hinmself, he gets up here today, Mr.

SpeakE!!", <wd except for thE! ag:Ltabon which is so obvious on his face, because the Opposition is doing sornet.h:Lng he would consider stupid and silly, excE•pt for that, Mr'. SpeakE!r, that hon. gentle1nan, the L536 June 13, 1989 VoJ XLI PrE!mier, gentlE!man scruff of LAJould helve taken For Grand Bank by thE! neck and hauled lhE! t.he h:.i.lfl dotJJn e1.cross !:he floor of Ult:! Hou:;;c::• and out through thE! door· of thj s Legislature, because he had the audacity to stand on his Feet, with somE! of h.is const.itUE!I'"Il:.~; watching - the biggest sin of all, Mr.

Speaker, was that some of" his constituents were watching the pE!rforrnancE! of thE! Pre11riE!r and l:he performance of the government - and that hon. r:3entleman had l:he audacity to do that and erlll:liH'Y'a~;~. the, Emperor. That is the real problem here, Mr. Speaker.

That hon. gentleman yesterday spoke for two hours and twenty rn:.i.nutE'S in this LE!g:Lslature, a11d 1 tJJi 11 say put on a f .i. n e pE!rfor'mance, t.IAJO hours and t:.tAif"nty minub;!s addrE!SSing the :i.ll--conce:lvod suction cup bucl~~et. of the Minister of Finance, l:he man who could get on hi s feet today and tell us there was no money in the budget to continue operations :in St. Lawren ce and Grand Bank. That is the competency of l:he Mintstor of FinancE!.

Our Finance critic, Uw ITietnbr::!l~ f'·or Grand Bank, spent b,Jo hours c~nd twenty minutes on his speech yesterday fighting with that minister, fighting with this government, talking about lAlhat, Mt~. Speaker? And the PrE!tn.iet" has the gall to gE!t up and sa id that he neVE!r' rnentionc:!d .it in QU£!Stion Period. TaJking about what, Mr. Speaker? Talking about the closing doLAII1 of hospital bed~; :i.n St.

LdtJJr'ence and Grand Bank, that :Ls what. the han . gentleman wa ~; talking about, talking about the raise in tuition fees for university students in this Province, talking about all the financial burden, thE! $1.00 rni .11ion No. 11 R ~.>3 6

tax grab that this hon. gE!ntleman and his administration have impoSE!d on thE! people oF Hlis Province. And then he gets up tl·wl"E! today, in his sane timontous cour·"l::room lawyE!r stylt':~ and makes thE! accusation that 1 You did not even mention anything about St. Lawrence or Grand Bank in Questton Pt':~riod, 1 when hE! spent ttJJo hour's and twenty minutes at it hE!l"E! yesterday. Now, Mr . Speaker·, the people have seen the arrogance of this han. gentleman.

The wor·d is going around this Province quickly, and UlE! t.uor·d will go around eVE!n rnorE! quickly as of this day, when a mE:1mber lAJho is lE!gitirnately elE!Ch!d to this Legislature is attempted to be chemozzled by the government. Not giving answers, standing up and taking a sip of wa b:~ r s o t hat you c an k no c k another minute off the clock and a sjmple little answer like, how many bE.~ds are nE!E!dE!d here, and how many beds arE! nE!eded therE~, runs into a five or six minute dissertation by the hon. t.he Minister of Health. People saw that today.

WE! have bE!en seeing it in this Legislature for the last two or t hr'E!e weeks, howev el" long we are here. But people from out around Newfoundland and Labrador saw it today. It has taken this govenrnent less timE!, five or six wr:~eks, Mr. Speaker·, to becomE! so arrogant and so pompous that ·it would tc:~kE! a norma.l government five or six years to become. People can see it all over Newfoundland and Labrador. Not only can they see it :in this Legislature, t'-nd the media arE! starting to pick up on it and they are starting to report it, but people com:i. ng in to meet the l..or·d, thE!

EmpE!ror hirnsEd f, the Premier, satJJ it again today, Ml". ~)pE!akE:!r', L537 June 13, 1.989 Vol XLI when some of those people .in thE! gaJ.lt:~ry, in a ci viLi.zed, cour·teous manne1", conw .in to meet the l.E!dder of l:he Government, br·:Lng t.hE:dr rnE!mber of the House oF Assetnbly with them, and one of the fir·"~t th-.ings that is ques tionC:•d is 1 What is hE! doing her'E!? fie is an Opposition member. What is i'lcc! doing ht:~r·(;~? Hcls he any right Lo be hE!re? 1 WE!ll, Mr.

Speaker', I can name rn em be r a f l:c:! r rn E! m be r· o n L h a t s :i. d "' of the House who had Lhe carpet wol~n out to rny oFFice tJJhen I t;.Jc'l~; a 111 :L n i s t P r , c om i n g u.Ji t h d E! 1 ega t :.i o n ~:: , coming with their constituents, corning on bd1aJ.f of t.he.ir c o n s t i t u e n t s . I c a. n n d rrw t h e rn , dozE:•ns over' Uwre I carr naJJJe lAJhu WE!rc~ coming 'in day afl:r:'r day, t.ucc!l< after lAJE!E!k. But ~ is th::i.~; the nut~J openness now? Is this the now fa:i rness and baJ.ance that pPople had prE•achE!d at Uwtn dur··inq the election?

Is this the Now Jc~rusalE!f'n that thE! nNu Prr:'tll.i.E!r ' lAJ as going to br·ing to NetAJfoundJ.and and Labrador? You now have l:o le 1: us knot.1.J, you havo to consuJ L tArit~h us, you haVE! l:o tJJar·n us ·.iF your e l e c t o d 111 E! m bE: ~ r i n t h e L e g :i s 1 at tH' e is going to accompany you as a part of a delegation. What would you expect, Mr. ~3pe~•k:=!r'? Wou1d not l:he pE•op11:! in my constituency or any constitUE!ncy, if they a1ne corning l:o nlE!et thE! Premj t':'r or' a rn:Lnister·, expect that as oF right their member in the House of Assembly would accompany them?

Is that unreasonable to expect in a democracy? Are we still living in a d( :!lnocracy, Mr' . Speaker·? Why tAJou1d Jrl(:!rnbE!r's bE! questioned? .~?.Q~,~-- --l-LQ_r~:L: _ t:1£J':!~ .L~~ : What are you talking about? MR. RIDEOUT: No. 11 1\ I~ 3 'J

ThE! PrE!m:ler knows exactly what:. I am talking about. His Parliamentary Assistant (Mr. Grirnr::!

S) knows E!Xactly what I am talking about, and thii: ' peopJ.E! in the delegation know exactly what I am talking about, Ml". Speaker. That is the arrogance that has penetrated this government in a short f:ive or six WE!E!ks, and that is what we are seeing here. WE! are seeing, Mr. Speaker, that thE! pE!OplE! of the district of Grand Bank hav(:~ been pNlalized by the goVE!r'nment for poLitical purposPs. That is exactly what IAJe di"E! seeing. ThE! commii:menl: thal: was made to the people of Grand 13ank and St.

Lawrence by the previous administration was that there would be a seVE!nty-five bed hospital buiJ.t and maintained at Salt Pond, along lArith thE! status quo in St. LatJJrE!nce and Grand Bank. That was th e commitment that tJJas made by the previous government. fhis government, Mr. Speaker, in reviewing their budgetary situation, saw an opportunity, in a district that they did not hold, to chop $3 rniJ.lion or $3 .2 rni11ion out of thEdr budgE~t. That, I submit i:o this House, was the onJ.y consideration.

If that is thE! only crime that the member for· Grand Bank commits for however much longer he is here, and I suspect :it IAJiJJ. be a J.ong time, pointing that out to the governiTIE!nt, then I say, 'Too bad,' Mr. Speaker, be::~ cause thai: is go :Lng to be done in this House day after day. This is not the only example. We have seen many in the Few shor ·t weeks we have bE!E~n hE!re since the HousE! r· e con v E! n E! d , and we tAJill be pointing U 11c!ln out. as we go along. ThE! .incon s istE~ncy of this LS38 JunE! 13,' 1989 Vol XLI goVE!rniTIE!nt., Mr. ~>peakE!r'!

They -go a r· o u n d t h t~ P r· o v i n c E! !Aril: h U1 (! ·i r own docu111ent, and pa~JP lB :i.n LhE! .:i.r' OIAJn docurnE!nt comrni.t.s thern t:o opE!ninq hospital bNJs, not closjng them. fhis little, flashy docu1nont l:hal: the leader· of the par' t.y, the notAl Premier, Flashed all around Hu1nber· East -··· did not do h:irn a J.ot of good, but he flashE~d it all around Humber East and aJ.l around the Province - says the same thing, they IAJiJ.J. keep hospital. bed ~; open as long as l:hE! de1nand ex :is t::s.

NotAl, i<, thE! government sayj ng Lha L there is no demand on th e Burin Peninsula for those ho spjl:.al b e d s ? I s t h c~ t w h a l: l:: h E! CJ o tH: I" n 111 c• n 1: :i.s saying? This govenHnent, Mr·. SpE!aker, haVE! ned: had the auddc:i.i:y to say it publicJ.y yet . Then they put in the word 1 compassion 1 Mr. Speakc::r, lAJI1ei''e haVE! We SE!E!I'l any E::vid E!nce of compassion by this govE:rnlnE !I'lt .in the last several day s? SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hear·! MR . RIDEOUT: We certainly have not see n any c o m p a s s i o n F 1~ o 1n l: h E! M i n i ~. t E! ~~ o f Finance.

He brings in a budget that takes an E!Xtr·a ~~100 rn.i1l.ion out of the pockets of Newfoundlandt•rs and . Labrador :i.c:u1s, and has thE: audac:i t:y, in Lhu salfle document, to cr·itic.ize l:he feder·al governrnE!nt for tak:i.ng $80 nri-llion out of the Newfoundland economy through additional taxation . He says how bad that is and how that is going t.:o cause econo111:i .c hardship in NewFoundland and Labrador. He does not haue th e phrase out of h:Ls rnouLh , i'-11~. Speaker, when he begJns slash, slash, ·l:ack, tack, and il: <ill adds up to another $1.00 lrLi.1J .iun.

That :is the cons:ist (:!ncy oF Lhis government . No. 1:1. R ~)3 8

This govt~rnrnE!nt talks about: caring about hospital beds and keeping hospitals open. Immediately, :in the first budget document, you see slash ~3t. Lawrence, you se::~ slash Grand Bank. This government is flip- -flopping from one end of the day t:o the othE!r. flow many more are thE!re coming? We do not know. But, M1~. SpE!aker, this government :is going to be watched, I can tell you that .

This gov~;:~l~nrnE!nt is going to be t.uat.chc~d and we are not going to allow thE!rn, through the vehich~ of this HouSE! of AsSE!lnbly, to bE! abJ.E! to g::!t up and become pl"Ed:ent: :ious and say, 1 Do not taJ.k to us about Lhat because we are in this bind because you created and left us with sornE!thing. 1 Mr. Speaker, thE! goVE!rnmE!nt is the government. They were elected to gover·n and they can take any decisions thE!Y want to take. It :is no good to blalllE! it on us or· somebody ten years previous, or somebody yet to come.

The government is the government and they can make whatever decisions they want to make. Like the Minister of Social Services, he can dE!Cide, Mr. Speaker, to go down to RE!agan country and b1~ing back a new phiJ.osophy of putting all of th~;:' social service recipients in NewfoundJ.and and Labrador to work. He can do that. He can also go through the books, Mr. SpeakE!r, and dE:~cidE• how rnany poor·, singlE! parE!nts and w:Ldows and the old and the sick and the hctndi cappE!d, how rnany of thosE:' people are out l:hc!r~! might OIJJC! !:he DE!partrnent of Social Services a fr:!W do11ars.

Hr:! can takE! a witch -hunt approach to the books in his departmE!nt, Mr·. Speakel~, and see if hE:' can scape a fpw do1lars here and a Few dol1ars L~..i3 9 June 13, 1989 VoJ. XU there and a Few dollars somc!l.uher·e \:!lse, and -t.hen take it out of thE· hide of those who can least afford to pay. He can do that ~l.f rw LArishes. The real change, Mr.

SpeakE!r, that th:Ls goUE!rnment talked about 1.uhen they wE!rE! over here, the real change that this govPrnment put in front of thE! peop1e as l:hetr agE!nda for· changE!, was supposed to be fair·rH:!SS, balance, compassion, great. words that anybody could take out of the dictionary and chomp out in front of th(! people of NGwF o u nd land and l_a bJ"ad or·, and you couJ.d not argue aga inst it, Mr. ~3peakE!r. But 1.ue ha1)e ~;cen and we are seeing the fairness and balance;~ :in thc:!ir· appl~oach l:o th~C· health car'E! system.

We ar·e sc-e.:in~J their dE!finit..ion of compclss:ion in t.heir appl~oach to the hea1th car·e system. We are seeing the same thi.ng, Mr·. SpE!aker, i.n thEdl" approach in the Social Services system. We arE! seeing thE! salfle thing :in their job-creation approach.

The Minister of Labour and Employment (Ms Cowan) ol~ Labour' R e l a t i o n s o r w h a t E! v e r Uw n e IAJ t'i tlE! is ·- took onE! of LhE! bE!S t programs that any goVE!rnnwnt ever brought into force in NE!I.Ufoundldnd and Labrador·, the Pr:Luai:e ~;ector· Employment Program, and tars it with one brush as being full of patronage and full oF politics, and says that it :i.s no good. It is no good because she did not bring it in, that is the pr·obJ.ern, Mr. Speaker. ~3hE! now has to l·:ry and find s om P other· t.ua y , but I doubt if she will bring it back C-J.nyway. But l:h(~ po:int I atn ITICtk :i.ng, M1· ·.

SpE!akc!r, is that this qovE•J~rnnent, day afb:•r day, is be:i.ng so arrogant and hypocr·it :ical Ft~om the No. 11 RS39

time that they sat over here. You would think that there would be some consistency.

You IAJould th .. ink that as hon. gentlemen plotted and plannr;!d, and finally succer:•dE!d in moving from this side of the House to that sidE! of l:he House, l:hE!Y would have had somE! grE!at b1na:i.ny person who would have researched for· thE!In thE! positions that thE!Y took as Opposit ·ion, the positions that they articulated as Opposition, so that wi·lE!n they got over there they did not, within their first FC::'t.JJ days in offiCE! or their first few WE!t::'ks tn offiCE!, start doing those stupid, silly thing that look hypocritical. That is what you would think would have happened . But no, Mr. Speaker!

There is no consistency between what the governmE!nt preched whE!n thE!Y WE!Y'E! in Opposition and what the government practices as government. We have pointed that. out today. A letter from the Minister of Health, who was the then critic for the Official Opposition, to thE! same pE!Oplr:: who arE! in here begging today for the government to maintain their health care system, the hon. gE!ntlE!rnan was only too pr·oud thc~n, Mr. Speaker, in the Opposition contE!Xt. How did the Leader oF the Opposition characterize l:hat in those days?

Was that somehov.J or other impeding the people's business, or was it going about the rightful business of the Opposition? But the han. gentleman was only too proud in thoSE! days, just a couple of short years ago. to w1~i t.e off a Jetter· of support saying 'We t:he LibE!I"ul Par·ty, ~~tand bE!~LLnd you.' The han. gE!ntlE•man tAJas only too p1noud then to say, 'Give me your button . Lr::~ t . rne WE•at~ your button l. :; 4-0 June 13, ]')89 VoJ. XU dS the symbol that the Liberal Party stands behind you .' The hon. r::JE!ntleman t.JJas only t.oo pl~oud then, Mr ·.

Speaker·, to ~~ay 'Tht:! only thing that is lacking is the will t.o do it..' But. whE!re is i:.h e button, whetnE! is l:hE! letter, wher't:! is the dedication and, more importantly, whE!inE! is the w:ill today, Mr. Speaker? MR. SIMMS : Where is the beef? MR . RIDEOUT: The hon . gentleman· is now in a posit:.ion not to jusl: l:alk about: th:i.ngs, he j s a po::;:itj on to del:iVE!r things. find .if he cannot: deliver what he put in writ:1ng, Mr. Speaker? That: is the lE!asl: you can ask or an hon. gen t:le1nan, to deliver what he put in t..JJri t.ing. If i-t.

IAJas good E·nouc_:)h to stand behind when you WE!I"f! in Opposition, :Ls jt not good E!nouc_:)h to stand behind when you are a rninist.E!r of thE! Cr·own? Or tAla~. :i.L· just all for show? fhe Premier was talking about show here today. In fact, did l:he r<:!al show begin two or t.v.1o and a haJ f years ago, over hE!I~E!, t.JJhen SOIIl C• of his colleagUE!S, IAJho ar'E! notAl minist:et~s, would take anything and sign it just for show, just to try to garner support, just to try to garnt::~r a few voles? wa~:; that. the approach?

Tht::~n the PrE!IniE!r g(:!\:s up and t.a1ks about honesty and do:1ng :it r'jghl:, and if il: is right, then WE! arE! going to do it.: r:i.ght. Wn do not c a In e w h o .i t a ·f f e c t s a n d t.JJ h a t l: h o adverse effect is. Tha-t. Jetler certain1y tel1s a lot, Mr. Speaker. It is easy to stick your name to a letter and tell somebody you support t:hem. -,h e hon. g·entlE!IIlcHl has rj(d: cauqhl: out badly. He must.: fE:!eJ pretty pr'oud today to havE! to go befor ·E~ those No. 1:1 R ~; 4-0

delegations, he must fE!E!l prE!I:ty good about bE~ing ordE!red today to go dotAJn to Sl:. Lawrence and Grand Bank over thE~ next feu.1 IAIE !e ks, ht~ must be prett:y plE!ased about tha1: order from the Emper·or, but he u.lill have to go, Mr. Speaker. BeforE:! we would even consider making any kind of decision of this magnitude what did we do? The old arrogant, previous government, Mr. Speaker, sent an entire Cabinet Committee to the Burin PerdnsuJ.a.

The Social Po 1 '.i.e y Cornm.i t teE! of the Cabi ne 1: went down and met with the town councils, thE! people, the hospital workE!rS, and all thoSE! who shouJ.d haVE! any input :into any dc:!cis ·ion made on the future of thoSE! facil:it.ies. fhis qoVE!rl11nE!nt did not even have the courtesy to consult u.rith their friends on the Burin Peninsula.

Some of the:i.r friends, some of their supportE!rS, financiaJ.Jy and otherwise, werE! shockE!d when thE!Y heard over the news that one of thE! fir·st thinqs this antJr.:•"''..,,,.. ,.,_,_ the facili · Lau.JrE!rll both o did no cons idE: of the do not fadli t taxpayc::~ was a people. d:i.sappo: !:hOSE! lA thE!

Pre positior for thi~ ovc::~r· her they s ho not knc sur·prise1 SE!E!irlg L LegislatL hon. ger LS41 -~ - _ _./ - when thE!re WE!re over hE!rE!, obviously havj.ng no lnE:!aning o1n worrying about it, and not even having the good sensE:· to ask somebody to correlate their pronunciations, not even having the good sense to ask somebody to bring together for' them poJ.:i.cy positions that they staked out before they became a government. That is where the Minister of Health has misled the people of St. Lawl~ence and Gr·and Bank. ThE!Y could not dr(:'i'l.lll :in t:hc:•:.Lr l,,rilde~;t dreams, Mr·.

Spedk<:!l~, th<'-11:. lAii .t:h a 1 E~ t t e r· :i. n t. hE! i r· h :i. p p o c k E'! t: f 1·' o 111 t h e 0 p p o s .i t i o n c r :L t i c F o r· H E! a 1 l: h , t..u~w, I lAJould say unfor·tunately f·oJ" the Province but fortunatPly For them, in thE!ir eyes, pE!r·haps, ended up being the Minister of Ht:!a] th, thoy couJ.d not bE:!] :i c"!Ve the dart, with this letter in their files, when the aXE'! fE!J.] on Budget: Day. They could not believe it. MR. SIMM~3 : Hang your head jn shame, boy. Hang your head in sha1rw! MR.

RIDEOUT: Not only di~ they have the comrnitmE!nt of l':he ProgrE:!ss ·ive Conservative Party when we were government, but they had the comrni ttment of the L:i bet·al Par·ty . fhey had all bases covered, so thE! 1..uars were fought, thE:! bal:t.J1:'s were Fought c''ls far as Lhe pE!Op1e of St. Lawrence cH1d Gr·and Bank were concerned. They never dreamed in thejr wj Jdest dreams that they would have to fight thoSE! battles again. CE!rt.ain]y the fr:iE!nds of Uw parl:y doum there nE!VE!r dlnE!cHnE•d lhE!Y wou1d have to fight thE!ITI ag<'lin uri.th l:h'is Pr·E:~ndel".

Not on1y d:i.cl they have thE! word oF thE! nc>w M.i n .is l:E:! I" o 1-­ lleaJth, then Opposil: :ion Cl"iL:ic, they hc:~d Uw wo1nd oF thE! For111er · .. eadE:'r of the Opposit:i.on, IAJho t.oJd :hE!In that: the policy of t.hE! 0' 11. R ~:>4-1

Liberal Party was to keep thoie facilities open. They had t.hP wor·d of the MinistE!l'' of Fisher·ies (Ml". W. CartE!r'), who was the Health critic for the Opposition prior to the hon. gE!ntJ.ernan From the Strail: of BellE! Isle becoming the Health critic. , They had the word of l:hE! forlnE!r' Minister of Fisheries, who cannot, I cun sure, Mr. Speaker, back down fr ·om what Hansi:~rd records. There is nobody disputing what we say here in this House when it is transcribed in the Hansar·d.

He said, 'I wou1d strongly support. the petition' - th.is was the peti ti..on tablc•d by my fr:iend, the lriE!I'rlber for Grand Bank (Mr.

MatthE!WS) -- "I tAJould strongly suppor·t thE! peUtion and as~ that. the Minister of Health and his coJ.Jeagues in gouernment giue it uery serious consideration and accede' --· in other words, giue in to, grant -- 'to thE! rE!quest containE!d t.hE!rEdn.' Th(:' preSE!nt MinistE!r of Fisheri .es, who, at l:he tirne of saying it, was saying it. on bE!half of the LibE!r·al Opposition, the L:i.b(:~ral caucus in the House of Assembly, the official Health critic for the Liberal Party of the day. So we haUE! two of them, Mr. Speaker.

We haue two presently hE!re, the forrnE!r' Health critic who is notAl the Minister of Health (Mr. Dc~ckE!

r) a fol'·mer Health critic who is now the Mjnist.er of Fisheries (Mr. CartE!ln), both of them now sitting around the Cabinet table, cheek to chE!ek, Mr. Speaker, jowl to jowl, r£:~ady to knife the first NewfoundlandE!r thE!Y can get a crack at -- MR. SIMMS : The fir'st P. C. MR. RIDEOUT: Or the first P.C . L54-2 JUnE! 13, 1989 Vol XLI -but both of thern sitl:ing around that Cabinet table, Mr.

Speaker, a n d o b v t o u s 1 y , n e i t h e r· o f t !'lie' rn h d d the good sense or· the conmd .t.rnent or' the decency or Uw cour ·t(~sy to say, 'Hold on, notAl, Emperor, lAJe cannot do that beca.use, as a party, we haUE! cornmi t ted lJ.JE! lAJouJd neue r do that . ' lrJ hat h c:~ s hap p r:! ned hE!rE!, Mr. Speaker? Only onE! thin~~ has changed in all this.

It .is not. thE:~ former· Health cr:it.ic, :it: is not the fanner, for'lfl(>.ln HE!a]l':h cr:i.t'ic; thE! former, for·rnel" J.t~ader· is gonE!, l:hE! only thing that has changed is thclt the hon . the PrE!m'.ier has comE' on l:.he sc:::!l'lO c;nd he has changE'!d dr·amaLicaJ.J.y s::i nu:· his Ccllnpaign. MR . SIMMS: A r·eal change . MR. RIDEOUT : Real change! We haue seen the r e a l c h a n g E! . T h e r· E! a l c h a n g e , M r· . Speaker, is that it makes no djffE'r'E!nCE! lJ.Jhat. tAlE! tAJer·e comrnj .tt.ecl to wh"~n lJ.IE!

WE!r'E! in Opposil:ton, il: makes no d'ifference what Former lE!aders of the par·ty cotnmitt(!d themselues to, it make s no diff,?.rencc~ IAJhat prE!SIC'nt nw1nbE!rs of the Cabinet might haue cotnnd. L: Led us to. DR . KITCHEN: The Press Gallery i~; E!lTipt.y . MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I haue spoken in House for days and days u1hen pres s g a 11 E! r y was c~ tn p t y ,_ MR. SIMMS : That :is r:ight. MR. RIDEOUT: this the -···and I lAJ:.i.J.l continue Lo sped!< foJ" days and days whet:h(:!r t·:hey ar·o up th~ :!re or· not:, Mr. Speab:-r . But I t e 11 y o u t: h .i s , ~1 r .

S p e a b:! r , T h a v E! sajd rnore j.n fiue rrd.nul:e~; l::han the No. 11 1\ 1)4.2

Minister all the House. of Finance time he has SOME HON. MEMBERS : H(~ar, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: has said in boen in the Of a11 the people, Mr . Speaker, in that caucus, to have thE• gall, the man you had to handspike out of his seat -- and tAle tried handspiking him out of his seat and could not do it during the Interim Supply debato - when he g E! t s up, makes a 11 k·i n d s of foolish, silly comments about numerators and denominator's and folnmu1ae and alJ. that kind oF thing. No money in the Budget For this project or that project. I mE!an, I do not know how much long(;'r hE! is going to last, I really do not.

Ever·y mornin~J, Mr. Speaker, he must takE:~ an OVE!rdose of stunned pills. EVE'Jry morning the hon. gentlE!man must grab for the stunned pill boll:.le as soon as he gets out of bed and gobble them down his throclt so he can com(;~ in here and make a fool of hirnSE!lf, because t:Wt:~ry day that is E!XactJ.y tJJhat he does. Every day \:he han. the Minister of Finance makes a fool of himself.

Either he cannot get up because he is glued on, or if hE! goes to get up, !:he Premier looks back and says, 1 No, I tAJ:i .lJ. handle that. 1 You know, I nE!Ver thought whE·n I saw that. hon. gentleman in another caucus that it was possible to glue him to his s E!a t. MR. SIMMS : Old Suction Cup hirnsd.f! f\1R. RIDEOUT: OJ.d Suctjon Cup rolls again! Mr. Speaker, !:his motion is an L543 June 13, 1989 Vo1 XLI important motion. This motion has important implications for Your Honour·. The GoVE!rnrnE!nt flouse LeadE!r has not said much about. that, but t.h:-i~; motion :i.~; r.1n important motion.

It is an opportunity here to de:t:eru1ine whet:h~:H' a rnernbE!r is going to be able to get up in thj.s House of Assembly and represent the interests of his constituents or not. MR. EFFOIW: Not agcdn! MR. RIDEOUT : Now, Mr. Speaker, l:h::! old Midni(3hL WandE!r<'!l" has bE•en a pi·'ime oxal'llp] e of that. MR. SIMMS : No, he would never hav e done that . MR . RIDEOUT: I notice something about tho Minister of Social Services, he h a s n o t b e e n o u t r' o a 1n i n g a r· o u n d after midnight lately. MR. SIMMS : Crawling under rocks . MR.

RIDEOUT : Crawling under rocks and in behind doors and stuff like that, Ml" . Speaker. But thE! hon. gE!nt1E:!llldn, lAJhE!n hE! was over here, Mr ·. SpPaker· MR. EFFORD: That is a personal attack. MR. SIMMS: That is not cl pE!r'sonal al:t.ack. Do not bE:' silJ.y. Mf\. RIDEOUT : TherE! is not another' hun. gentletnan in Uw HouSE!, T dtll sur·e, E!ver· E!ngaged, and r·tght:ly so, in beating up on people personally the way the hon. gentleman d:-id No. 11 I~ 1)43

w hE' n he was a c r it i c over here . So do not E!tJE!ln 1E!t us hE!ar you, because we w:i.11 a1lAJays remind you of your· own actions whE!n you WE!rE! on this sidE! of the HousE·, and they will stand out for a long time, Mr. SpeakE!r, in the annals of parliamentary history, I can tE<ll thE! hon. gE!ntleman that. So, Mr.

SpeakE!r, this ·is a significant motion, and I am concE!rned that so soon :i.nto .its mandate this government would choose to beat up on the little people, so soon in· its mandate this government would choose to be so hypocritica1, so soon in its mandate this government wou1d choose to bE! so arrogant, so soon in its mandate · this government would bE! so afraid of l:he people• and their r'E!prE!Sent:atiVE! that thE!Y question whether or not they could carne to a meeting. Mr. Speaker, there is something wrong in the rooms of thjs government and we are going to keep pointing it out. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Question! MR. DECKER: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. thE! Minister of HE!r.l1th . MR. DECKER: Mr. SpeakE !r, if hon . members to put the questions, I certainly sit down. Are prepared to put the question? MR. SPEAKER : Are you ready for the qu estion? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Yes . want can you 1_1)/j.lj. JunE! 13, 1989 Vol XLI MR. SPEAKER: You hE!ard \:hE! motion. in favour 11 Aye 11 ? SOME HON . MEMBERS : Aye. MR. SPEAKER: Contrary -minded? The motion is carried . All those Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees MR. DICKS : Mr. Speak er. MR .

SPEAKER : The han . the Mini ster o F Ju stic e. MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . SOME HON . MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! MR. SPEAKER: fhe hon. the Minist er of Ju stic e. MR . DICKS: Thank you, Mr·. SpeakE!r . Mr . Speaker, as minister responsible for i:h~;. ~ Offi ce oF Hw LegislatiVE ! Counse1, pur suant : to Section (18) of rh1:! Sb :'-t.ul·1:!s and SubordinatE! Legislation Act, I am ·r·equ:ired i:o lay bE! fore. l:hE! HousE· of Assembly a copy of The Subordinate Legis1ation filed under that Ac t.

Accordingly, I tablE! the E!di t·ions of The Newfoundland Gazette published bEd:wE•en April 8, 19 88 and May 1.2, 1989. MR. SIMMS : A good job. SOME HON . MEMBERS : No . 11 I~ 1:i il-4

-~ Hear, ~war! MS COWAN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear! MS COWAN: 'M'r~p-eaker, I arn bringing House today the SE!Cond repor·t, thclt of 1988, Workers' Compensation Td . bu naJ.. SOME HON. MEMRERS: HE!ar, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER: to the annual of The Appeal At this point I wish to inform han. members of th.is particular rE!port, unde1n HIE! provision of

Section 5.5 of The Internal Economy Commiss~ion Act as arnE!nd~~d, I Lo.lish to inform the House of a composition of the Internal Economy Commission. The 1nernbers are the Speaker as Chairman; t.he De p u t y S p E! a k e r , L 1 o y d Snow , as Deputy Chair·rnan; the hon. Winston Bakr:•r, hon. Chris Decker, hon. Paul Dicks, Mr·. Len Simms, and Mr. Robert Aylward. These are the members of the Internal Economy Commission. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS : Mr. Speaker·. MR . ·SPEAKFR : ThE! hon . the Opposition HouSE! Leader. MR.

SIMMS: I Lo.Jonder could I of the Council ask to L 51~5 June 13, 1989 the President respond on Vol XI_I bd1al f of the Premier , who is not hE!re. YE!Ster·day th1C! LE!ader of thE! Opposition asked the Premier to investigate, or· SE!nd out another committeE! to find thcll ·. MinutE! in Council, and the Prem:i.E•r said hE• would, and hopE~ to gE~t back befor·~ :! the end of thE! day. liE~ did not.. Does he have anything to report? MR. SPEAKER: ThE~ hon. GoVE!rniTIE!nt HousE:~ Leader. MR. BAKER: I thank t~he han. Opposi~i. (1n Hous E:!

Leader· fo1n h:is quest:ion, aJt:hough sorne of his l:E!t"rn:inology ha s certa:Ln i.lflplicaU .ons ti'wt 1 do nol. agr ·ee t.u-.il:h. fhe Pr~!lrLLE!r agr·~C!~!d Lo look into a cer·t:ai.n mc:d:t:et ' and he obviously will give an an swer wh en hE! has t.hat answe1n and ~u~wn h('' :i ~; available to g.ive that answer. I would l"ikE• to po:i.nt: out as t.uoJ 1 , at the sarne tirn(;'!, to t:he Opposition House Leader that every single quest ::Lon that has b ~!en put on the OrdPr' Paper hclS now been answered . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: LE!t us see what will happen afbn· tomorrow's Order Paper .

Orders of the Day MR. BAKER: Motion one . SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hear! MR. SPEAKEr~ : The hon. the JnE!Iltber For Cr ancJ Bank . MR. MATTHEWS : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . No . 11 FU)45

I really did not expect that I would he1v e l:he occasion to rise .in Hd.s House so soon, I thought. it would probably bE! tornorr·otAJ . I th:i.nk thE!re is a bit. of a message in that, Mr . Speaker, what was transacted today and over the past. numbetn of WE!eks. ThE!re is a bit of an admission, by the Premier and the Government House Leader, to get up and move that I be expelled for· a minute. I Ul"ink .it says rno1ne than perhaps they woul.d want to admit. rhe thing about 'it is thE! Ernpetnor· ha~~ lE!ft thE!

Chamber again, so I guess the seals will now start surfacing, and I welco1ne it because that L\Jas the only way I was able to get through two hours or so talking yest.E:~r·day, wi Lh the int:erj E!Ct:i ons by the Old chicken wing member For Mt . Sdo---Bell Island Mr·. Walsh. He rE!ally helped me yestE!rday, and I wel.come that because it E•nables you to keep going.

Now the Second Emperor is just l~ ~aving. flis att:i.tude has been 1 you wanted mE!, notAl you ti.'lkE! what you get . 1 That is what he has espoused over the last month or so, particul.arly in the mE!eU.ngs I at tE! ndE!d this morning with dE!lE!gations from my district. 1 I really did not want to be the leader, you know, but. lhe pE!OpJ.e o f t h e L i b C>r' a 1 P a r t y t h e y pressured me into it, and they paid rnE! $50,000 a YE!ar addi t:ional sal.ary so I could take it. So all of you take what I give you, 1 that is thE! attitudE! that comes out of this PrEH·niE!r'. And to be very honest with you, Mr.

Speaker, in thE! seven or· eight Y('!drs that I hc'l.Ve bet ':!n a JnE!rnber of the Hou se of Assembly I L\Jould say that I c.d:b :~nd~!d rneEd:.ings tAril:h MJ.nister·s, and PrE!Jrtiers, on close l~o a 100 occasions, but I l1E!VE.~r in my lifetime and in my political. L ') 4-6 June 13, 1989 Uol XU lifetime particularly, saw the arrogancE! of the PrE!Jil:iE•r· of this Province showed and displayed to thE! pE!OplE! of ~3t.

LdWrt!nCE! l:o Lalllal:i.nl':' this mor·ning. tie d.:i.d not believe that anyone else should have an opinion on the health care services in Utt:!:ir arE!a, and u,J!·l<:!n they questioned him on it and gave their opinion, he becmnE! VE!ry irr :itated a.nd shoutE!d back at them. Mr·. Speaker, he wr::•nt as far as to rE•mind onE• gE!ntJernan t.ha t he had a gt"in on his fact:!, and t:h 1:! gentleman very quJckly responded to him and said 1WE !.1l, I guE! ~.~ ; I have J.earned someth :i ng since Apl ":i .J 20, you are no :longer a11ot~.Jud l:o srniJe :i.n this Province with you as PrE!rllier.

I And th .i..s is j I.I S r: hOLl.J the meeting deteriorat ed th :is rnorni ng, Mr. Speak c:!r, •.Hld .[ 1.1.Jd s saddened by it. And I haVE! all the respect in l::h l:· wo·1 nld for the Prelllier' oF l":h.is ProvinCE :!, whOE!VE·r· t:hat: pE!r·son he or she might be, regardless oF L!.Jhat po] it:ica1 patnty, so 1 IAklS really taken aback by that arrogant attitude that the Pr'E'lnicr· displayed. And the people From the delegation now making their way back to the Burin Peni..nsula arP gone away ver·y, very sadderwd today by that display by thE!

PtnerniE•r of th:i.s PrcHJ:lnCE'!, becau~~c thc~y di.d not come h(:!r·E• for t~hal:, UtE! y c a 111 e t:. o ox p r c s s t he :i r opinions and to pass on to the Pr'E!HiiE!r' and the Mini~~ter of flea] t:h what they thought would be th e best health care arr ·angE!rnenLs foJ" thE! Bur·:in Peninsula. They did not come in Lhis rnor·ning and say they would not accept anything less than IAJha t: they had.

They L\Jant.ed to negotiate and consult and to :.i n v o 1 v P l he R E! g :i o n a 1 He a 1 L h C iH' c• Board at Salt Pond and the Blue Cr'E!St Int:etnfait:h ~)enior· flotne :l.n Gr·and Bank, and JTJaybe corne up wi. Ut a total health care pa ckage For No . 1.1 1\ I) {~6

the Burin Peninsula that. rnaybe madE• more sensE;! than what :is in ex·istence thE!rE! now . To addr·ess l:hE! total hE!al th car ·e r·equ:irernents of thE! Bur·in PeninsuJ.a acute care and chronic care, care for the E!lderly, and, at the samE! tirnE!, a very, VE~ry important point !JJas to prot e c t t he j o b s now i n ex j s t e n c E! and, indE!ed, maybe evE~n create more jobs on the Burin PE!ninsuJ.a if the requirements for looking after -the eJ.derly !JJerE:! -l:o be rnet:.

That wo u 1 d have t :i e d in very neatly, Mr·. ~)peaker·, 1JJ:lt.h thE! pr·onouncc~d job cr·eation E+forl:s that thi~~ gover·nrnE:!nt has b(!E!n announcing and trying to promote over the last number of months. So it was very, very disturbing. Of couJ~se, LI.Je hE!ar the Min:istE!r of Health and we hear the Premier today t.al k about. thE· n•gional health caJ ~e center at Salt Pond, of which we are all very proud and which we all support, but :it cannot tot.aJ.ly take care of the nE !e ds of the Bur·in Peninsula . You say that as a government you haVE! to close down the hospitals in St .

LawrencE! and Grand Bank. I madE! refeJ~ence today, in my question to the Minister of Health, to Roddickton. I have nothing against thE! people of Roddick ton. I hope they get a 200 bed facility, if that is what they nE!E!d up thE!rE!. But whE1n you look at the geography of the Province and you look at: what is .in existE!nce nocd and you siZE! up thE! NorthE!rn PE~ninsula, you have a situation on the Burin Peninsula where you aJ~E! going to opE!n sixty acute care beds ··· there LI.Jer·e E•.igh ty .. -s:ix and you arc~ now going to have sixty acute care beds.

Now, you look at the Northern PeninsuJ a and from what I gather·, there is a hospital at Norris Point. Is that correct? L':i4-7 JUnE! 13, 1989 Vol XLI Mf~. DECKER : Y E!S. MR. MATTHEWS: How rnany beds? MR. DECKER: About fourteen . MR. MATTHEWS: FourtE!en. Is thE!re a ho~~p:.i.ta] at Port SaundE!rs? MR. R. AYLWARD : Not at Port. Saunders, Pol" L au Choix, is it not? MR. MATTHFWS : You helVE! a s:it.uat:ion identicaJ. t.o what exists on the Burin Peninsula . Is there a ho~;pit.a] at Pol" t. Saunders? MR. FUREY : Port Saunders has a (inaudible) C(~ntr·e. MR. MATTHEWS: So we have twenty-eight. Wha L about St.

Anthony? MR. DECKER : Si.xty. MR. MATTHEWS : Sixty . So, how many does that give us? SOME HON . MEMBERS : Eighty-eight. MR. MATTHEWS: Eighty-eight. And now we are going to open up a new health care center in Roddjckton . For how many people? What is the population of the Northern Peninsula? MR. R. AYLWAIW: ·s·E; v E!-i1"t:··;;;·E;n·Tho"u s a n d ' HI a X j_ rn u HI • No. 11 1\ 1) /~ '7

MR. MATTfl EWS : Seventeen thousand, maximum. LEd: us say 20,000. Let .us bE! generous. Let us be liberal in this case. AN HON. MEMBER: Let us be really liberal. MR. MATTHEWS: Let us not be really liberal, because that gets dangerous. We have seen that in the last week or so. That is dangerous. So you have 20,000 people and yet, as a Premier, as a Minister of Health, as a Cabinet and as a government, you ar'e trying to c o n v i n c e t h e p e o p l e o f Uw B u r· i n Peninsula tha t siX'ty bE!ds is going to satisfy the health care requirements of 35,000 to 40,000 people.

When you do a compatnison it becomes very obv'i.ous that what is happening here is that this government has decided to shut down rnuch neE!ded hospital bPds on t hE~ B u r i n P E'!·n i n s u l a to t r' a n sf e r it to thE! Minis l:E!r of Health 1 s area of the Province, in Roddickton. It ·is as plain as t:he noSE! on your face. MR. R. AYLWARD : They committed voting Tory. MR.

MATTHEWS : the big sin of {hat is what this Ptnc~rn'ier ' has done after going around th:is Province preachinc:3 fairness and balance and 1 al1 regions of the ProvinCE! 1.1.Jill be treatc~d E!qually. 1 lrJell, by inflicting a net loss of twenty hospital beds on the Burin Peninsula and increasing it sornE•whE!re elsE! is not fairnE·ss and balance, and it is not treating all regions of this Province equaLly, Now, if they want to put twenty or LS4-8 June 13, 1989 VoJ X l.I thirty beds in Roddickton that.. :is fine, but do not take the1n CllAli:'l.y from so1neone else ·to do :.i L.

BE!cause you know how people reacl~ wh( ~n you takE! someUd ng aLuCJ.y that they already had. [ will say sincerely in this House of Assembly that thE! two delE!gat.ions, the town councils and lh(;! hea1 th cc~re cornmittE!eS and so on fi"Olfl i:hE! Bur·in PeninsuJ.a, thE~Y are not unreasonable peoplE!. And :if l:hEH'e is sornE• way to better ut.:LJ:ize thu facilities, then these people would curtainly ent.erta:in consulta\:ion and discus~:;ion lAJ.il:h the Min:i.st.er of flea1th and the ! govc:!rr11nent to accornp] ish th,,d:. 'ThE! othE!r' side oF t:he coin :i.~; Lhat For' St.

LawrE!I1CE! and Gr·,uH.l Bdnk, in essE•nce what this goverrnnt :!nL j.~. doing is lArip:ing out an indust:r-y in those towns. Sixty jobs :in ~H ... LawrE!nCE! are VE!ry, VC!'i''Y :important. Thai~ town has bccolnc so economically depressed up to - MR. · KELLAND:- Would thE! hon. lTtcrnbE!r' pernd .t a qUE!Stion? SOME HON . MfMBERS : No. Sit down, boy . Sit down . MR . R. AYLWARD: Clyde is gone::' now, he is a11oL>.wd to stand up. MR . RIDEOUT : And he does not have the moose licences drawn. MR. MATTHEWS: Is the moose draw not over yet? SOME HON . MEMBERS : Yes. MR . MATTHEWS: Sure half the moose are shot . MR. R.

AY LWARD: I rnadu a mistakE! and gol: b;.Jo. I No. 11 R 1')4 8

got yours. Ml~. MATTHEWS: Mr. ~peakE!r, not: being a big garne hunter, I am rE!ally bE! ·ing distracted hE!re now. I haul':~ lost my trend of thought. a l: a which fish thE! Mr. Speaker, whE! n you loa k community likE! St. LawrencE!, had its mine shut down, its plant closed down - thank God mine is now reactivated and we see 110 people or so working there. And we see l:hE! fish plant working again, but ne.ither industry is operating at thE! lE!Vels thE!Y WE!rE! bE!for'l':'.

And notJ.J you ar·e going to take sixty direct jobs out of that community, and with the indirect jobs that could probably amount to c 1 o s E• to 100 j o b s being t. a ken out of a community l.ike St. LawrE!ncc~. That is devastating to St. Lawrence and the surrounding communities. As t.ueJ.J, you arE! goj .ng to have the s L>- me s i t u a t i o n i n G I'' a n d 8 a n k , where we haVE! ~;E!en a decr·ease in the number of employees at the fish plant. Since the fisheries restructuring crisis, I would say there are approximately 200 people less working in thE! fish plant in Grand Bank than were there then.

And with the dot.unturn notJ..J in thE! fil:;hery, the deep SE!a fishE!ry particularly in this Province, LlJE! are going to see further r·eductions in employees. Even if they are all maintained on the payrolls of Fisheries Products International, they are going to C:!arn lE!SS monE!y.

The amount of ti .rne they arE! going to spE:~nd processing f.ish is going to be less, consequently their urwrnployrnf!l1t insurancE! and so on w:ill be less. ~)o :it :is going to be very, very negative for the cornrnuni LiE!S of Gt~and Bank e:tnd Fortune, and all around the LS4-9 JunE! 13, 1989 Vol XLI thlrtE!en corrunurdtiE!S in my district, frorn Lit:.U.e St. Lawrence to Gar·n"ish.

So whfHl a govr:!r·n1nent rnakes a decision to take away anothE!r' sixty jobs fr·om l:hosc:• communities, I think somet:i.ntes LUC do .it without fully understanding, in E!Ssence, what we iH'e doing to those cornrnun"ities and to the pE!Op}e, This governlTIE!nt, for' sur·e, has dec.idE!d l:o shut dotJ.m the hospitals in St. Lawrence and Grand Bank without knowing fully what they are doing. They do not know . In fact, .in answering questions today on hotAJ many beds ar·e nt :!edcd on t.he Bur·in PE!n.insula for· acul ·:r:! Cdr 'E! and chronic car'E!, thE!

Mini ster· or· Health could not stand in hi s p]acc:• and -l:.E!}l rne. NotAl, her·e :i::; a rninis ·U!r who rne1de this c!~~cis.i o n just a few short weeks ago . Could you bE!l ·ir;•ve that that minister could make a decision to close out sorne f.ifty--four· or fifty --fivo hospital beds, to ]ay orr · approximately 110 ho spital employees without knowing Lh0 r'E!quiy·ernE!nts oF Ll'lE! Bur·in PeninsuJ.a? MR. R. AYL.WAfW: No. MR. MATTHEWS : lrJE!1l, he d:id, and th e gouernmen l-. did.

They did thal:. 1ind thal: teJ.ls me somel :hing about Lh:i s government and it ties .in t .... r:i.th someth:i.ng I said yes tt:!rday. When this PremiE!r aXE!d some oF the most competent civil sE•rvant.~; who tAJei ~P ernployc:!d in thE• burE!aucracy oF this Pr·ovincP, they arc· ~.Jo:ing t.o suffer the consequen ces of th is: ThE•y fir·ed t-hE! DE•puty Min :i~;! .:er· or· 1-lE!all:h. MR. RIDEOUT: Order, Mr. Speaker . No. J 1 R ~) 'l-9

There are three or on the go over there. MR. MATTHEWS: Now, Mr~peakE!r, four rnE!E!tings with all dUE! respect, I have stood in this House and sat in this House since it opened, and I listen(~d to thr:~ PrEHniE!r lE!Ctur·ing before he opE!nE!d the HouSE! about decorum and other things - MR. SPEAKER : Ord(:'r, please! The hon. gentlE!man is right, t.hE!re are three conversations going on and it is beginning to take p 1~ i 1na c y o v E:~ r· ti'lE! dE! batE! n otiJ. I would ask hon. gentlE!mr:~n to plE!aSE! rE!str·ain thernsellJes and allow t:he hon. HIE!ITiber to be hE!ard . MR. MATTHEWS : Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What we see hE!rE!, Mr. SpeakE!r, is comparable to what happens to a class in school. AftE!r you have them strapped to their seats so long, if you do not giVE! them a rE!cess break they get rE!Stless and they start to talk among themse]v~;:~s and pass notes and flick pieces of paper with a ruler and a rubber band. That is what happc:!ns . Of course, thE!

PremiE!r should know that he should a1lcHJJ h'is mernbE!rS to lE!l'\VE! {:he CharnbE!I~ on occasion to haVE! a coffee or opE!n up the w.indows, and then when thE!Y corne back in they art~ rnot'e relaxed and can participate more positively in the functions of the Hous1~. 13ut that is whi':'lt we ~;(:'r:! here. MR. TORIN: i)o you think thE!Y ar~C! allotAJI:!d l:o go to the washroom? MR. MATTHEWS: WeJl, I am not sur·e. I have ~ward L.') ')0 June 13, 1989 Vol XLI l:hat they arE:~ not. ThE!Y dJn(! not: r:~v en alloWE!d to go to r:. h (! washroom.

The P r r'!lfl.i E! r says, 'Make sure, before you go up at 2:00 P .m., that you usc~ thE~ fac.i1it: ·i€~s I MR. WARREN: They are wearing disposables . MR.

MATTHEWS: Now, where we are they were before us, and t:hE!Y knot.11 it is ver'y doiffi.cult L!Jhen you haVE! l:.wenl:y or· SO pE!Op}E! trying to USE:! l:hc:• facilities at: the~ samE! t1 .rne . ~3o, I wo u J d ad vis e rn e 111 bE' r· s o p p o ~~ it: C! that :if you wan t: t. o c h a l: , and I know you do, and that 'is okay ro~s WE!ll, go out in that biq Con11non Room you have over· there and haue a chat, and r·eally reflect on lAihal: your gover·nment and your· PI"E!IIl .iE!I"' and the Minister of Health haue done to the communities of St. LawrE!nCE! and Grand Bank, and a11 the communities in between.

ReflE!Ct on it and rE•ach down into thE! bottom of your stomachs and a s k y o u r s E! 1 v e s c a n y o u r e d J. 1 y suppor·t what thjs govE:•rnrnonl.: has done. Can you really? Can you really support or pretend that you support the 10 percent tuition fees that you have imposed on studE!nts in this Pt~ovince? Or can you really support deep down within you the slashing of the pr·ivate sector· ernp]oymE:•nt program? Can you tnea11y clo that: when you really do not have anything to replace it? I haue heard the social assi stance program being brought up as a replacemE·nt.

I SE!e $2 rni11ion being transferred over to the MinistE•r of ErnpJ.oy111ent . Fo1n what? lrJhat are you going l:o accomplish IJJj .th :it? Maybe sol'l\E! day she IJJi 11 q E! t up a. n d l:t=.! 11 us what: sh~C' is goi.ng to accolllpl:idl with the $2 million . MR. RIDEOUT: No. ll I\ 'i '.JO

She has not told us much yet . MR. ~~ATTH EWS: No, she has not told us much yet. We heal~ this new progralfl 'is I:H.dng considered. WE!ll, I suppose you can go on forE!VE!r considering programs, but it. does not do rnuch to employ the people of the Province or to help the private sector of this Province. What this minister has allowed to happen means a slash of 3,000 jobs across this Province. Now, that is a deadly blow to the private sectoJ~ and to rural NetJJfoundland, and then you have the 110 jobs in Grand Bank and St. L.at;.JrencE!.

That is 3 , 1 1 0 j o b s .in ttAJo 1 it t.l e decisions, as they saw it over therE!, just one liU:le sliCE! wit:h the oJ.d machE!te; the old machetE! mentality has set in: Ah, cut it out:. $7 . S million, IAJhat. is that? Three thousand jobs in Newfoundland and Labrador. That i.s no problem. We will cut that out and we will take haJ.f the $7.5 million and give it to Dr·. HouSE! and hts RecovE:~ry Team. They arE! going to create far more jobs than that. NotJJ, $7.

S million in the Pr·ivate Sec l:or Employment Pr·ogr·am was in essence $15 million, bc~cause fo1n evc::~ry dolla1n t.:his government put into the program th~y got $1.00 from the private sector. So it was $1~) rn:i .llion. So what do they hope to accomplish? AN HON. MEMBER : How many jobs for youth? MR. MATTHEWS: Now, that is a very good question .

I do not know if my information is correct or not. and I am sure l:hl'! tninisi:E!r has !:he inforlflat: i.on at her fingertips over there, but there were a fairly large number of student applications for the Student Employment Program that were not L5S1 June 13, 1989 Vol XU funded. Ml~. TOBIN: Chicken wing just. came in . MR. MATHI EWS: Yes, I know. Old chicken wing, he is doing his part. fie applied under· the student progrcun and he did not know that Jt was not apprOVE!d, J.·ike ol:hE!r' lllEH 'nb (!Jns OIHH' there.

They did not know that the program tJJas cancellE!d, l:hE! priva l:e sector empJoyment progr~m . They actually called over to the project officE! and s<:dd, When t.u:i 1·1 my project be approved? MR. TOBIN: Old chicken wing? MR. WALSH: I never called. MR. MATTHEWS: There were members who called from your side and said, When will my project be approved For the pr·ivate secto1n E!lnployment program? That tAla~~ in t.hC! J.a~:;t : week. They were informed that the progt~arn no J.ongE!r' ex:i.!;ted and you could hear· the gasps comE! out 01;er the phone.

It wa s like a cartoon, where~ you SE!E! the big bulge come out through the co .rd . They cou] d not believe it. There are several hundrE!d f.;tudNlt appl-Lcat.ion s on filE! OVE!r thE!re :in l:he Ernployrn onl: Services Division that cannot be addressc::•d becauSE! of the at.l:.il :ude and decisions of this govPrnntE!n L. MR. BAKER : That is not true . MR. MATTHEWS: The President of Treasury Board say s it is not true. MR. TOBIN: It is true . No. 11 I~ 1) S 1

MR. MATrf·l EWS: What .is true? EvE:!rything that .is said :in thj s Chamber the Premier says :it :is silly and stupid, and the President of Treasury Board says it is not true. Now, I happen to know, as I had to tE!ll the Minister of Employment before, that there were l,S34 applications on file for the Private Sector Employment Program that she did not know were there. The ministE!r could not tE!] 1 TTJE!. She could not tell me who made recemmendations to Cabinet on approval for the project . I had to tell her who that IAJas.

I, as welJ., had to :info1~m hE!r', in light of hor· rerna1nks about pat1nonagE! in the program, that in two YE!ars nut one recomrnE!ndation to CabinE·t was 1nejected on the Pr·tvate SE!Ctor · Employment Program. ThE!re IAJas not one rE!jE!Ct:ion. Now, how cdn that be patronage? We even approved onE! for Hris gentlE!Ini.Hl here who was a director of a firm. Now, how is that patronage? We approved onE! for· Dicks clnd D:i.cks. Is that patronage? AN HON. MEMBER: That is false . MR. MATTH EL'IIS: No , it :is not fa 1 s e . I IJJO u 1 d j us t as soon ·folnget that in this House.

I could have brow:~ht l:.his up about a year ago and I chose not to. I decided not to. As minister responsible for the program, I dc~cided not to. I know everything that happened and how you squirmed and went and changed. AN HON. MEMBER : I will challenge you. Mf~. MATTI-I EWS: You can challenge all you like, but I know the story al] too well, Mr. SpE!dkl'lr. A11 t:o WE!ll I know what h~:.~ppE!ned. I was caLl.ed on L I) 1)2 June 13, 1989 Vol XU the rnat.t.er· when :Lt. Wf.lS d=i.scoVE!red and I said, 1 Leave it a] onE!. 1 Do you know why I said leave it alone?

UnJ.ike the hon. gonl:lOilkHl, we tolerated you when you were over here and we were in government. Do you kno!AJ L\Jhy I did it, to bE! VE!Iny honE!St lArith you? It lAJas because I had so much respect for the Private Sector Employment Program that I d:i.d no L want it tarn:ishE!d by thesE! kinds of L:hings becoming pubJ,i.c. And I said, for the integrtty of the program, leave it alone. flocausc WE! WE!r·E· under filne fl" ·u m the Opposition in this House of Ass(:!lnbly for· about: a IAJE!r:!l< 01~ ~HJ on the Pr:i.vate Sector LiiipJ.oyrnl''nl. Pr·ogr·am, which is fa :Ll" t::!nOU(Jh.

But I rH :! 1 i eve d so rnu c h :i. n t h c p r· o g r· c:u n t h a t I d i d no t t.l...l a n l: l: h (:! pt'ogr'am dalllaged in any way bGcause, as I said, in l:.IAJO yQ,c·li"S thE! ln e Lua s not a r· E! j e c t j on by Cabinet lJJhen the~ r·E!COrtllnenda l:.ions c am e u p . The r· e IAJ e r E! a fetAl problems discovered after the approvals IAJt'r'E! done, IAJh::ich :is fair· enough.

When you have thousands of appJ.tcati.ons collling :inLo a dE!partmE!nt, pE:'ople lined up a l: Lhe desk, particuJ.arly from Lhe Avalon, to fill out their appl:i cations for Uw progr·arn, ·l~.hen you are und~r pressure to get approvaJ.s. That is IAJhy, l.lri.~ ; y E! a r , IAJe sen l: t h :::! a p p 1 i cal~ ions o u l:. early in the year around this PlnovinCE! so they would corn::! back earJ.ier and the project offices would he1ve a chancE! Lo co1nplete thE! appli .c aU .ons and get pE!rU nPnt information .

The applications would then be referred to the inter··dE•pctri:rneni:al COIIllnitl:.ee wh.i.ch made reconnnE·ndat: i.ons, and ever·ything would be lllur ·e or·derly and Cabinet would not be under pl"E!SStH'e to make has l:y appr·otJals. That. is why I d:lcJ it. I did a]] UlC:!Se things l:o tr ·y l:o llidke the pt'ogram mor·e successful and mor·e No. 11 F~ 1:iS2

:'t equitable for everybody around this ProvincE! fJ"om Labrador', down the NorthE~rn PE!ninsula, along thE ! South Coast and so on. fhat .is why I did :i.t. And I w:i.J.l teJ.J. you, when I WE!nt to the lock --up to be briE~fed on the Budget, thE! ttAJO things that hurt me most .in the Budget Highlights we1ne the closuJnE! oF the two hospitals, Grand Bank and St.. Lawr'E!nCE!, and thE! cancellation by this administration of the Private Secto1n ElnployJTIE!nt Progr·am . It affected I'TIE! very, VE!Y'Y deE!ply. This JnE!I'ilbE!r herE! fl~orn Mount: PE!arl, .the former financE!

MJrdstE!t', 1.uas there with me and he knows. MR. HODDER ; And they had the face to say there \Alas pcd:Jnonage. MR. MATTHEWS: There was no patronage in program, I can assure you, whatsoever . MR. TOBIN : that none What were you saying about the member for Port de Grave? MR. MATTHEWS: I am finTshE!d sayi.ng anything about the JnE!ITJber for Port de Gr·ave. I sai.d why I did or· did not do some things that other peoplE! t.uould have done, and thE!rE· was good reason for that. The reason is as I have just outJ.ined. But if the shoe were on t:hE! other foot, I think WE! would see a different ball gam!':'.

But, then, that is t:he difFE!rencE! :in people. That is tJJhy, I guess, some people would have stood in this House today and said 1 I arn sorry 1. Thc!y lAJou1d have suck1:!d back what they sa id. HON. MEMBER : A rnan of principle . LS:>3 June 13, 1989 Vol XLI MR. MATTHEWS : That is the way I am. I have alt.~.Jays been VE!r'Y stTong--iAd."l] ed and I gUE !SS I wi11 go t:o IllY gr'aVE! 1.i.ke that. SOME HON. MEMBERS : iTE ;~~ r, -he .ar i' -- MR. MATTHEWS : I have never been known to back down frorn anything or anyone and, p16asE~ God, I t.ujJ.J. st.:iL.I hatJE! "l..he courage to continue to be like that.

I and this forn1er· adrn::Lni~;'l..r'alion WE!rE! accused in this 1-lou·,:;t::! l:od. :~y of not having courage. WeLL, I suppOSE! you can put all kinds oF

interpretations on different wo1nds, but I would 1.:i.k~! l:o Ul"Lnk that instead of saying we were less couragE!OUS than sorne othcH' people are or would like to be pE!rCE!iVE!d around this Pr·ovince, I would likE! to say that WE· 1.uere a little mo1ne compassi.onal~e. SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar·, hE!ar! Mf~. MATHI EWS : And I think if you are go ing to be successful in running this Province as a PrerniE!r, as a Cabinet. and as a governnwnL, you somehow have~ to find l:he tn:ix. You have to take tough decisions somE!,tirnes that are not always popular·.

But, as lAJe11, you have to be compassionate. ~3o, if you can get a nd x of the 'l-.'.tAJO 1 c 1 s 1 , then I think you have a fair chance of pleasing most of the PE!Ople and you lAr.i.ll ~C!nd up being succe~:sful in t;.Jhat_ you dl''l' pursuing. MR. TOBIN : John, what is that story? No. 11 R ::, r; 3

MR. MATTHEWS : Leave John alone. John is undc.;!r enough pressure as M] n:Lster of Social Services. MR . R. AYLWARD : Trying to get the $8 million back . MR. MATTHEWS: He is out on a bJ.g SE!ar·ch of the Province now. He has his people looking in closets for the clothes and other things he is going to want. t.o take back, the $8 rnilJ.ion he is going to find. MR . R. AYLWARD : Tearing up mattresses to see if he can find ·it . rhey ur.i1l haVE! to buy a new mattresses now . MR. MATTHEWS: Yes, everything. He is on a rampage of the Province.

ThE! samE! gentleman t.uho fought the causp For socia1 assistance rE!Cipients in this Province for four years. WE! saw what he d] .d with t:he BudgE!t, and now hE! is socking it to them again. MR. TOBIN : He cut the budget . million increase. MR. MATTHEWS: L.es s than a $2 It. is a dismal pE!rforrnancE• for a man, by l:he way, whom I thought t.uould be an E!XCE!llE!nt Minister of Social Servicr::~s. I said, 1 He is going to be an excellent minister, 1 because he had me convinced that he bel]eved so much in fighting for the underprivileged. And he has become so qu .i.et and so mum thai: I cannot realJ.y be1:i.

E!VE' J.t. He t.uas a fight(!r, but the fight IAJE!nt out of hJ.m and it is too bad. I suppose that is all right, too. Perhaps he wants l:o 1 E! i.H' n a bit rnor·e, but if you 1istenE!d Lo hJ.m L554 June 13, 1989 Vol XU for t. hE! last:. tt.uo o t' t h 1" E! E! y f:! a r· s you would think he knew more about social assistance than anyone else in the lAJorld. lie lJ.JdS go i.ng l:.o increase everything: AJJ aJ.lowances were going to be increased. But what happened to it? MR. R. AYLWARD : He got his arrogance injection . Ml\ .

MATTHEWS: You helped establish the priori ties of your· goveJ"nllt(;•nl:, dnd obviously you did not stand up enough for the social assistance rE!cipiE•nts of 'l:.h::i s ProvincE". You Sdi.1.J millions of c.Jol]ars CJOing l:o Dr . House- -· $3 rni11:i .on --and yo11 sat there and you all owed your Premier and your Cabinet colleagUE!S to say, We i.H'O qoing Lo have a $5 million surpJus, when you should haVE! satd, I.E!l: us balanCE! the budgE!t. C;:i.vE! mf:• t:he $5 million to give to Lhe poor of thE! Prov] neE!. You sat. thE•rE! and you took that. MR .

TOBIN : Now he is going l:o be a l: [·:ht:!lrl up for $8 rrdlJ.ion. MR. MATTHEWS : Yes, he is go ·i ng l:.o qo ou l: l'lOlJ.J ud th t. hE! cJ.ub. HE> :i. s going to club thc:Hn . MR. RIDEOUT : And with hobnail boots . MR. MATTf·l EWS: Pass over the $8 mi11:i.on or you arE:' going to get a sledge. B:i g bumps on the club too, t suppose, big knots . HE! :i.s go::i .ng to bEH'li:. th~<:~tn in to s utmri s s ion. Ml\. TOBIN : He :i.s go:i.ng l:: 0 t:rJ.kE' back $8 million fr·om thE! poor, I'.: he sick and the suffPring of this Prov:LncE!? No. 11 1\

I) I~ 4

MR. MATTHEWS: Why would the rn:inister even say that hE! L\Ja s going out to get back $8 million fr ·orn the poor of this ProvincE•? Why makE:~ such a statement when he knows he cannot do it? The poor people do not have it to give him. Oh, I know what hE! is going to do, hE! is going to issue their cheques with less money on them. MR. TOBIN : He should go to Treasury Board and ask him to write (inaudible). MR. MATTHEWS: He shouJ.d. And if" l::hE!

PrE!sident of Treasury Board has half the compassion that he professes to have in this House, and he is a.s decent as I believe he is - I think he is one of the most decent individuals I have ever met. MR. TOBIN: Who? MR. MATTHEWS : The President of Treasury Board . MR. TOBIN: He is a fine fellow . MR. MATTHFWS: I taught with him for a while too. He is a terrib1e teacher. MR. R. AYLWARD : And he is environmentalist . MR. MATTHEWS: a terrible Heconvinced himself that hE! was a biologists and, more importantly, hE! convincE!d the CabinE!t that . hE! was a biologist and hE~ sold Bt: t.o bE!

USE!d :Ln thE! spr-ay progr-am. He said I knm.u more about spray t:.hat anyonE! E!lse. And hE! looked at: l.:hE! member for Windsor -·- Buchans and hE! sa:i.d, Now J.j_si~E!n her-e, I knotAJ more about spray than l:he r·est of L555 June 13, 1.989 Vo1 XLI you put together . MR. TOBIN: (Inaudible) the budworm . MR. MATTHEWS: No, he sa:i.d, Now we arE! go·.:i.ng to use Bt this YE!ar. I am an environmentalist and I am a biolog:ist, and I knotJJ more about it than anyone eJ.se. MR. SIMMS : Chemical warfare. MR. MATHI EWS ; Chemical warfare.

Yes , using a bj .t. of thE! othE!r stuf f rn:ighL b<'' a little bit more wi se r t ha n pov er ty L\Jelfare, too, if the forE!Sts of the Province fall a part. MR. TOBIN: Get back to your point. MR. SIMMS: It will be Bt Baker's fauJ.t . MR. MATTHEWS : Bt Baker will stand up l.:hen and he will take full responsibility, [ am sure he will . Old Bt Baker. MR. TOBIN : First~ you sa·.ld he tAJas a qood rnan, but a poor t E! ache r . I k now he :i s a good man. Mf~. MATHI EWS: lie tJJas awful . tE!aching . MR. TOBIN: But hE• :L s MinistE!r of good rnan. MR. MATTHEWS : That is why he left no better than thE! Development.

HE~ is a Having said that in fun, sf!r.i ously hE! is a ve1~y deu!nt jncJ::ividuaJ and he was good biolog :i.s t~. And he i.s a good pol itician. But I have listened to him in the last co upl e No. 11 [\ s ~) ~_;

of days and I am not so sure holAJ he is going to perform as President of Treasury Board. I am not so sure. U.stE!ning to him speak publicly, I am not so sure how he and Mr. March ar·e going to make out. I am not so sure. MR. R. AYLWARD: There is a fight coming . Ml~. MATTHEWS: Ah, there are going to be lots of fights. MR. SIMMS : We wiJl know soon enough . MR. MATTHEWS: Yes. MR. RIDEOUT : Mr. March was out on the steps today. MR. MATTHEWS : He was out there today, ranting and roaring. MR. RIDEOUT : He was in a familiar position . MR. MATTHEWS: A familiar position. and he did not care who was at the top. MR. R.

AYLWARD: March will not be working for Seabright next time. MR. WINDSOR: He lAJas not out wt th thE! judge today, was he? MR . R. AYLWARD : No, hE! was not out wi t.h the judge today. and hE! wi11 not be lAJ'i th the:! judge the next time. MR. MATTHFWS : He would accept any said. Tt is hard Hard to believe. 1._~)~)6 June 1.3, 1989 friends, hE• to believe. Vol XLI ThE!re ar·o a lot of mornb ~!rs ovc~r· thE!re and a lot of rrd.ni .stE•rs who have thE!ir day coming. rhe Minister of Social Serviens is getb.ng borE!d nolAI in l:.he House, he is not getting cll'lY que sUons. But, of course, hE! is prE!OCcupi.

E!d with the $8 million purge. MR. R. AYLWARD : He cannot get up ev ery day now and make accusations. MR. SIMMS : He is not doing anything . MR. TOBIN: Wait until it hits . MR . MATTHEWS: Wait 1 til she strike s! MR . SIMMS : How about the Minister of Finance? MR. MATTHEWS : The Minister of Finance? I suppose I should be (ak ing mor e about that minister than any other rninistE•r in th:ls dE!batE•, bE!CdUSE• it is the Budget Debate . But wh at can you say about a m:in:i.st:E!I" who tAJas not per·rnitl::ed t:o introduce :! a $1 billion Interim Supply Bil l? The President of Treasury Board had to do that. MR. R.

AYLWARD : I know why now. MR. MATTHEWS: And he has been asked six or seven questions in the House which he has not even gotten up on his feet to even attempt to answer. MR. WINDSOR : Scandalous! MR. MATTHEWS : He was as ked a quE's t. :i. on t. o cJ a y he answered it incorrectly. askE!d holAI much monE!Y was :i.n a 11 cl I th E• No. 11 R 1) ~~6

Bud~et for the continuation of the St. Lawrence and Grand Bank Hospitals and he said, nothing. Then the Premier very quickly looked back and said, There is money there, Hubert. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! MR. MATHI EWS: And. the Premier was right . Because that was exactly the anstAJer. And then the poor Mini.ster of Health lAJas so ernbarr·;::~ssed hE! had to jwnp up and take up a book and start to r·ead it. I do not know where he got it . Ml~. WINDSOI~: We are three months into the fiscal year and the Minister of Finance does not know that he spent so much. MR.

MATTHEWS : The Minister of Health did not see it in the Budget document, did he? There is nothing specifically listed in the Budget for Grand Bank and St. Lawrence, when you have listed the rest of the hospitals. From where did you dig up the figure, that is the question. AN HON. MEMBER: It is cover-up. MR. MIHTHEWS: It is covered up like the increase in electricity rates that is going to hit this Province is covered up, some 14- or 15 per cent. Now, they d:Ld not cover up thE! tuition fees. I do not suppose they could fi .nd a IJ.Jay to do it.

But what they do not rE:!al.ize, you see, is that by IAJack:i.ng the tuiti .on fees up by 10 per CE!nl:. t.hey are going to E•nd up cost.ing l:.hE!rrtselVE!S just as much monE!Y anytAJay. bE!Ci.'WSE! Student Aid calculations are L55'7 June 13, 1989 Vol XU formatted. I arn sure the minister must th:'i.nk about. !:hal: oVE!r thE!re. He is looking vet'.Y pensive today. They are hoping you woul.d not. talk about things like this. The Minister of Education, if hf! cuas sincerE!. would stand :i.n his pJacE! and say. Look. I fought wi l:h rny CabinE!t co] leagUE!S. And I honestly think he did.

I l:h:ink hE! is sincer'E! about studE!nts. and I think he is sincere about post:- ·sE·condary and SE!Conclat"Y education. MR. R. AYLWARD : They tAJould no t.. J. i ~~l.en t.o t:h(• scientisl:.s on 13t, and t-.huy IAJou ld not J].sten to the expert:s on education. 1'-lR. MATTHEWS : No, thE!Y d:Ld Jj si:.E!n to the biologist on spray, but U1E!Y tAJou ld not J.ist:en to the E!Xp e l~t: on education. That is l:.he probl.em. MR. TOBIN : Who is the expert on education? MR. MATTHEWS: The Minister of Education is the expert on education. MR. R. AYLWARD: The member for St. John's Nor·th. MR.

TOBIN: lie is a decent fellotAJ. MR. MATTHEWS: YE!S. there is no question . VE!I~y dE!CE!I1t. HE! is ThE! onJy thing tha ·L l.r.JOI~r:i .es rne :is that The Minister· oF Educat -Lon 1nay hcwe t.akE!n oducation ft~orn FinancE•. NolAJ, casE!. and to bl:• not: think that - MR. SIMMS : No. 11 some advice Lhe Mi.nis t:er 011 oF LhE• [ do if such :Ls Vt'!I"Y hones l:. 1\ 1 ~5'7

The Minister of Finance should have been Dean of Education, should he not? MR. MATTHEWS : Yes, but the committr;1e d-id not even interview him, did they? MR. SIMMS: Les would not take him on . MR. MATTHEWS: No, he would not have him . MR. R. AYLWARD: So he upped the tuition right away. MR. SIMMS: Yes, he socked to the students. MR. MATH! EL'IIS: Yes, he whacked it to the studt:'nts, but I havE• a funny feeling that by the end of September we are go :i ng to Sf!e lAJho is going to sock it to whom. I would say you are going to see more than 200 or 300 people on the steps down there come September, and then thE!

Pr·c:!mier and the Minister of Education will have to go down, I suspc::~ct, because they will not. go at.t.Jay unless they come down. We will go down, as we did today. AN liON. MEMBER: (InaudiblE•). MR. MATTHFWS : Is that the member for LaPoile making a grunt and a groan over there again? I must say to the member, I was impressed with his speech. MR. SIMMS: I J.j ked the speech by the member for Placent.i.a. MR. MATTHEWS : That was thE! bE!St YE!t. in the HOUSE! E!VE!ry day, L5S8 June 13, 1989 He speaks but. it is Vol XLI usua1ly a barb across thE• House to you. He- has no SE!nSE! of humour.

You haVE! to haVE! a SE!I1SE! of humour \~o survive in any profession, particular1y in politics, if you are going to come hel"e d.nd si.l:. in this LegisJ.aturE! as J.ong as t-.his PrEnrrier says we arE! got ng to s .i.l: here. Any onE:' who does not have a sense of humour better develop one fast. You w:i.l1 haVE! no probJ erns finding use for l~he beds in Grand Bank and St. LawrE!nCE!, b<c•causE• you will be able to open up a psychiatr:ic lAJard and UE!I''Y qu:i ckl y all of us here will fill it up, we will take turns, if you do noL dE!Velop a SE!IlSE! of hu1110ur hur'C::! i.n this Leg:islatur~:!.

So 1E"t us noL get so bogg1:•d down in it all. Wr::• gE!t so ser:Lous that: L\JE! cannot: do as we are doing r·i1::Jh I~ now. 1-hr·otAJ a scattered bar'b and laugh about it. If WE! do not, WE' tAJill all go funny. Most people out Lher·e think we are crazy notAJ anyt..uay, and there are times I tend to agree t.~.ri th thorn; I wonder and r·oflc!C"t on why I got into this profess:ion. MR. TOBIN : Tht:1rE! is a b.ig gar·den dot.~.Jn l::hpr·,~. too. Can you SE!E! thE! rTIE!lflber rOI" Placentia setting potatoes? MR. MATTHEWS: The firs l: candida l:e obviously thE! membE•t' Plau~ntia WE!St. SOME HON.

MEMBERS : Hear. hear! MR. MATTHEWS : l:.o go i.n 'is for· Bul":i n I can tell you Lhat the onJy reason he is here is because I signed him out l·:his 1nor·n:ing. Ml~. I~. AYLWAIW : The beds have bE!en c1osed notAJ, ~::o you cannot get him back in . MR. MATTHFWS : No. 11 R ~) ~) 8

Having said that, and of coursE!, in jest., eVE!ryonE! knows, he fri.E!nd - MR. R. AYLWARD: Sometimes. MR. MATTHEWS: I say that, bE!CdUSE!, as is rny good He is good sornE!tirnes, yes, and he hates to be outdone by anyone, so I was VE!Y'Y surpriSE!d when I got the Flick out of i:he House::~ today that I did not see him coming right bE!hind rne. But getting back to education, on a VE!ry ser'ious notE:~, I expE!Ct. thai: OVE!r the nE!Xt ttAJo OY' l:".hrE!e years lAJe arE! going to really S<:!e the educational funding escala ·t:E! and incrE!ase in th:is Province