VOL. 3 PRELIHINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, HARCH 7, 1978 NO.~

:~rch 7, l'i78 Tape :lo. 23 The House I:'et at 3:00 P.:·! • ...£!r: Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: Order, ?lease! STATEMENTS BY ~.ffiUSTERS: The han. the Premier. P!l.E~ITER ~·!OORES: ~r. Speaker, I am sure the ~ouse of Asse!!lbly would like to go on record as acknoovledging the fact that a native son of Jerseyside, Placentia has ~een elecced to the highest position L~ t.'le ~!orld of the Irish c:1!'istian Brothers.

I refer of course to Reverend 3rother Gerald G. ~[cEugh, ~tho has distinguished hil:lself and his ?rovinc:e by becoming the first Canadian to be elected Superior General of the uorld-wicie Congregation of Christian Brothers. T:.1e Congregation, I might add, has 352 ccl!llllunities throughout the Tvorld, <lith 195,0::J')­ ?lus students, with more than 3,000 01ristian Brothers. Brother :1cHugh,who is forty-six years of age,was elected at the Twenty-Fifth General

Chapter of the Congregation in ~ome. He is a son of ~argaret and the late Philip ~!cHugh, and is one of ten children. One of his brothers is f!everend Fnther '-ic~::1::d :~"-:::~: Parish Priest on Bell Island, another is Reverend Brother Juhn :!cHug!:!, fermer Principal of St. Bon's College and Brother Rice high schools and curre ·o.tly Principal and Superior of Brother Edmund Rice Secondary School, Toronto, and ~everend Sister ~<ilhelmina ~!cHugh, of t:1e ?resentacion Convent,is an aunt. :·lr, Speaker, in m:my ways the Irish c;1ristia..-.

Brothers have contributed greatly to the enrichment of our Province, leading the way in academic: endeavours and laying the foundations for great expectations. :Tewfoundland is a better place today because of the dedicated services of the Irish Christian Brothers. I know I speak for all members of the House in extending to Brother ~!cHugh our best wishes for every success in :,.is . 75

Tape ~lo. 23 :~- 2 PRE!·!IER :-~00?-.ES: new and very challenging position. SOME HON • ME~ffiERS : Hear! Hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon, Leader of the Opposition. HR. W. ~. ROl-lE: :·!r. Speaker, I would very much like to associate myself and my colleagues with the remarks of the hon. the Premier .:oncerning Reverend Brother ~cHugh, He is .,.ell b.own, particulariy to those Hho have been involved in e:iucation, as one of :lewfoundland's greatest educators and he is a man '~ho brir!:;s credit on this Province.

It is amazing, Sir, the number of people '.rho rise to very _high office in various religous orders and institutions ~•ho come from this Province. Scarcely a session has gone by in my eight or nine years in the House, that we have not had the delightful occasion for somebody to rise, the Premier, or so6e other member and congratulate one of our native sons or daughters for~as I say, rising to high station in a religious institution. And I •;ould very much like to associate my caucus, this side of the House, with the remarks of the hon. the Premier. SO!-!E RON. ~!BERS : ~'R. SPEAKER: ~~. HICI01AN: Hear! Hear!

The han. Minister of Justice, Mr. Speaker, it is with ?leasure I annotmce the appointn:ent of ~r. John N. Cardoulis of St. John's, ~e<vfoundland, as Provincial Fire Commissioner. Mr. Cardoulis was born in Boston, }~ssachusetts, completed his education at Grand Falls, ~le1rioundland, and is a Canadian citizen. He is fifty-two years of a11:e, married lvith eight children. His mother, ~!rs. Anna Cardoulis, resides in Grand Falls, Newfoundland. Mr. Cardoulis will assume the office of Provincial Fire Commissioner on April 1st., 1978.

John Cardoulis has been associated with the fire service for over thirty-five years and has served in every capacity in fire departments from fire fighter to fire chief. 76

~arch 7, 1978 ':aoe ::o. 23 :;M - 3 :ie ~~as Fire Protection 2ngineer fo r five years with the Uni ted S tates Civil Service and Director of : ~ e !ire Pr otection and Fire Fighting School over eighc years. For ~e past eighteen years , !·!r. Cardoulis has ..,orked as a Fire Protection consultant in ~e•..rfoundland. !!e served for eigh t ilnd one ~alf years tri.th the i.:nited Sta tes Ai r Force .1."1d i3 a s raduate of several :ire protect ion sc~ools and cc~ rses.

Fi re Commissioner Cardoulis ~as oeen -;ery closely associaced with t~e fire service in :lewfour.clanc nnd Labrador dur ing the past twenty years, and has been a very active mel'lber of c~e :.le•.tfoundla:nd and Laorador Asso ciacion of ?ire Chiefs, being one of t~e ori;inal founders • . Soce t!=.e ago he was apoointed an honourat'7 life :eoee r o! the ~ewf oundland ~".d Lab rador Associatio n of Fire Chiefs. :!r.

Car doulis h as had a Hide ran ge of experience and knowledge in the field of fire protection and life safety and is the recipient of ~y z.tards for :ire protection services ove r the years. !:le is a member of the society of Fi'l'e Protection E.ngineers of Boston, the Inscicute of Fire E:lgineers of England and the ~ ational !ire Protection Ass ociat ion . I am inceed pleased th~t t~is very ;,i zhly trained and experi=ced person has av;reed to acc~pt t~e position of Provincial Fire Cocmissioner . 77

March 7, 1978 Tape 24 PK - 1 I should like at this time to pay a very sincere tribute to the Provincial Fire Commissioner,Frank J. Ryan, M.B.E.,who reached retirement age last July but at the request of government agreed to stay on until March 31, 1978 in order we would have an opportunity to very carefully consider all candidates for the office of Provincial Fire Commissioner.

Provincial Fire Commissioner Ryan,who was appointed to office on November 2, 19S3,was the first person to occupy this office in Newfoundland, and has done an outstanding job in the area of fire protection and in giving leadership and training to the volunteer fire brigades throughout Newfoundland. It may be of interest to the hon. members to. learn we now have in this Province 190 fire brigades~most of ~~hich are fullv equipped and have received training under the leadership of Fire Commissioner Ryan. I wish Provincial Fire Commissioner Ryan and his wife many years of healthy and happy retirement. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South. MR. J .· NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of the hon. Leader and all members on this side join in congratulating the new Fire Commissioner,Mr. John Cardoulis, and to reply to the statement just made by the House Leader and the Minister of Justice. Of course Mr. Cardoulis is very, very well known. In adnition to ~is great knowledge on firefighting and so on, he has appearedon any number of occasions in the media, I am thinking of televison, giving demonstrations and so on.

My most recent association with him~as I believe last year ·~hen I was invited to speak to the ,\.l". erir.~n Legion here in Newfoundland along with the Minister of Consumer Affairs who was there also at the time. And Mr. Cardoulis is either a president of that organization or a past president but he indeed holds very, very high office. Many people know Johnny Cardoulis. Even though he may not have been born on our shores, I do not think he was anyway, but the fact is we look upon him as someone we have known all of our life, just as the member for Lewisporte (Mr.

White) mentioned to me how well he knew him, and how co-operative he has been in so many areas and in doing so much for firefighting in this Province. And of course he is filling big shoes when he replaces Frank Ryan, 78

~rch 7, 1978 Tape 24 PK - 2 fu. Nolan: because Frank Ryan himself is sort of an institution here in this Province who served the Province and its necple lonB and well· for many years as the han. minister just indicated. Mr. Ryan was always available to those of us who had reason to call upon him when we were associated with the media.

I know I have had reason to call upon him on many times in the past, and I cannot think of anyone in all of th~ civil service of this Province who has always been more co-ope~acive, more knowledgeable, so accessible, and so willing to give of his time and knowledge to assist not only those of us who were directly involved in the media, but through us all the public as well.

So my reason for standing here is to lvish John Cardoulis our very, very best wishes and to compliment the Minister of Justice on- the appointment of this man who has done so much in a very, very important area, and that is firefighting in this Province; I know for example in my own area,and others as well,where you have volunteer fire brigades. What would we do without them?

And I know there is lots to be done yet, but nevertheless it is good to ~ow that we have - and it is not easy to fill a position filled by someone like Frank Ryan for so many, many years- but. in John Cardoulis I believe that the minister has done just that, and his advisors, and we certainly wish Mr. Cardoulis well and at the same time join with the minister in wishing Frank Ryan,his wife and family all the best in retirement and to thank them for a job so well done over so many years in servicing this Province and its citizens. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Rear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Justice. MR.

RICKMAN: I have a very short statement, Mr. Speaker, which is more for information for hen. members. The index of the Revised Statutes of Newfoundland 1970, and the bound Statutes for 1977 are in the office of Mr. Speaker, and copies are available for all hon. members if they will,sometime at their convenience,attend at the office of the Speaker and sign for same. I will direct to the ?9

March 7, 197i Tape 24 rl< - 3 HR. eiC:<:o!AJ.'l: attention of bon. gentlemen that the inde..x is something ne'"' in Canada, the type of inde..'<ing that we rave , I~ is a pilot project that ~as carried on by the Provincial Department of Justice under the leadership of Mr. James W. Ryan, Q. C., and the Canadian Law Information Council, and it was a very substantial sum of money ~de available by the Canadian Law Information Council. lJe ..:ould like to think,based on good advice,c!lat i t is ?t'Obably the best index of S tatue~~ that can be fcund in Canada at this t~e .

Sue in any event they are there for the conven ience of hon. members. SOME RON. MEMBERS: !lear, hear! ~. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. XR. W. ROWE: Mr. Speaker, 80

.. :.arc~l 7,197 J Tape :~a. .L.J :l..,(,j.-.l. i?"rticular re,;;olut:iuu. I C..:o LlOJ: c.<in~ t.nere >dll ;.,e any dissent from it.. I '-Oulci li~e t:o ..Jove, 3ir, seconC::eu C,y ~.1e .lo••· t.le Premier, c:..1at a aessae;e of-sppatny anu condolences anu simple recognition of tile fact ti1ac:. tne man lived and contri!Jutea. :;reatly to tilia Province be sent to t11e family of Albert Perlin 1 who paSS<!O. .i\.iay aiuce c.J.is .::iouse last sat.

I t.li'-!k we would be reciss if w-e lliu. not as a Legislature recoc:;niz.a t • .~.e pu..ssiilg of chis 6r~at .::uin, o~1t:. ~Ji t.~.lt: .;;rcd.te.;;c juurnalist$ ~ver prou.u.ceu. .JY .: . .r.i.::,. ?rovi:J.ci!. cl!d to ?Ut ourselves on t;1e recoru as '1a.ving consiuereu our:;elve.;;, I suppose ,fortWlate to .1ave beeon conte1:1poraries of this .;;entlem..ill ana. put ourselves on the recora. as recogni~L•g the tremena.ous contribution w;licil this .;;entleman, t.1is very Iuuc.l of a gentleman, , i.liao.e to ti1e journalistic life of tne Provlll.ce, to c;1e political life of tllt: ?rov ince .i.•u to 60'/eriU.leut :;.:uerally jjo ta as a I:.on-partisau auvisor to gover=ents anci as a ul.illl w.1u co:nr..ci,ceu ou t.le passin;; policical sceue.

A very great ~enuiue gentle111a.n, ~ir. Speaker, aud I would very u:uci• like to move that t,le resolution I referreu to be passeo. unanimously by this House. MR. SPEAJ.G::R: The non. Premier. :1r. Speaker, it is vith .;reat pleasure that I supporc tnat resolution ior tne obvious reason ana cne reasons given by tne Leacier of tne ·~pposicion. All:>ert: Perlin anci ni.; family, but particularly <lr.

Perlin,have lleen - I suppose .1e wCls one of the w.ost respecteci, if not 'cue' most respect:ea journalist: we 11ave ever naa in tuis Province. lie was a man wno we~.s always fair and a man wno C:.!.ll <1 st~ciy am• .o tucilccl ;~e"Wfounulan..i nis1:ory auci its peo?lej a =n who in latter years ,or I suppose never llaci any viciousnt ~:; in nim~wnic,l I JUess by any st:a;1uards today in t:ile priuteci word is unusual. de \~as a man wno •"as a very proua ;;ewfounalander, a man wuo was a rlewfoundlander oy aqol?tion,I believe,out a man wno ciid nis utmost to make this a better Provlll.ce ll1 which to live.

It is ·.;it.1 .;reat: pleas-ure, Sir, t<1at tnis si<.Le of tZ"Ie H.ouse :;upports tile 81.

P<J::.:I;:.:< .~oo:.s.:t:s: dJ.,, ;5PLI..'U:i{: Ta;>e O:iO. 2.j r ... n-2 resolutiiJll. i.:1on. ::..e!il.O=.r for i..~o.l.l~ • • :JI. Speakar, I oeg l~ave o£ t: .. l~ i~ouse t:o ?resc::tc a resolution tnat I [tope will be supporteu by t:.1e w..;mbers on eituer sicie of tne neuse. I will move tne resolution. I nope tnat: c:.1e •lan. the Premier or t:•le Government: tiouse Leader woulci :>utJport my :;~utioJn and t•J.at is, Sir, c:.1at: tne i:icuse sene! a uessage of 5y=:pat.1y 41u conliol~uce!:i to t.ae ia.Iilil:T of t.aa lace .:...r. jurry i>li.lO pa3s~a.

J..~·ay siuct:: cae c.:.ouse .ia~t sat • ...:~lore -;..,·uile ac,u , Sir, to ... J.t:d.r oi c~lt.~ ~eat .. J. oi c .. 1e r~.i.!v. ur . .:..e~ter ::>urry. <Jr. ;:~urry woula best: ue reme.nbered for ;1is wonuerful ••on: t:ilrougnout Labraaor. tie ~~as a member of t:o.1e :-Ia tioual Conventio;:J. ana in 1946 was electea from t:nat convention to go :o Ottawa :o ui;;cuss tne terms of Confederation. I = sure, Ar. Speaker, tnat I speak for UJ.eD.oer.s lJll cocu si~es of t11is douse in expre:~sing hlos~ si:-.~.ct=re co~ou.olences Co t.le .Ea~:oily of tne late Jr, Burry. L.on • .-tiuister of Justice. dr.

Speaker, on ..,..,,..alf of all hon. g::ntlemen on tnis side of the neuse may I join in the collllllents by the non. t•le ::~emoer for LaPoile (llr, :~eary) iu ;;ayiug that: we :nest assurealy ,¥oula wisn to convey to t11e f=ily o"f tile late i.Jr, Lester Burry our sincere conaolences. It was my JOOd fortune some years ago wnen I was c.1air.aa11 of t<1e United Church School Jloar<i for ti1is area to t~ave t•le :;.ev, iJr. 3urry as a ;n~:wber of taa t board.

W.1ils t ne was a Jreat I;let~ber of t;•e board,t:he tnin:;s I r€:illember ailout ni.m most viviLily were· his stories aud accow1ts of nis years on coastal Labracior. I believe chat t:ue late Kev. aurry anu ~onsignor u 'Lrien were tne first two wnite people to visit wnat is now Ci.lurc.lill Falls. .l..nd it was a great thrill I know for both of them to have been present,and I i1eard them articulate their vie.._s, at tne time of the O?ening of this power development. 82

..;.11- 3 ttev. Ur . Currt ,.~~3 a ti=eat chu.rc,.u..ur., c. z r~.:tc c ~ ~c~~or, a ~reac o ucc oors~an a~d a tr~mencious ~us u anc ana fat ~er. ~! ?. . SPEAKER: Hon. ~ember for fo~o . CAPT. '..t1:NSOR: rt W"Ould be amiss if I did not acid my seucicencs coward the motion made oy toe House teauer anci secoccieci by the :tiuister of Justice in tne passi:lg or iJr. ilurry. I <mew vr. Surry for =y, cany years,cspeciall >· pertainin g to nis wor ;.;. i:l Laorauor. \.ttten Dr.

Burry tVent to : :1e taor ~ao:::, itt. ::ipea d..:r, ;;uos-e w.:re tne uays woen c:ti116S ~o;ere not as ~ oou as ~.1c y are ~o uay i n taoraaor,¢Vell t lio.ug;\ •.!e hear t hat t.lings dre oaJ in Labraaor rig. lc now. But I am sure tne member for ~~ as~upi (; :r. G.;,udie) w~ose mother, I believe, perhaps had more association ~ith Dr. ~ ur=Y ti'um auy otner person ce·r::ain1y in cc::.,. iiouse of Assembly, .:tnd it was always easy to get a conversation ~oing wicn ~·I rs. Gouciie about tee tL.. ... :.: cnac the i.\unters or husbanas Wi:l:t crappin~ i u Labrador an..i Or. curry, \.lho I suppose next co :tev.

Joyce iavencec a raaio, a tran::; mict.:r,ana not onl~· a transmicc . .:r but also little r;ldio receivers to ta~e in trapping \.lith t heo <iuriu~ c.1eir trap ping season, and I 83

:~nc~ 7, 1?73 CAPT. E. 1:r::scr,: may h~ve heard- and as a matter o: fact, I think ' frs. r-oudie refers to this in her boo I~. - hm> many times that the men vrould listen on Sunday especially to 11et the ne~•s from home a.TJd listen to the church service broadcast from '!orth 1·7est ~ver church '.;hich i:lean:: a tremendous ar:101mt to those neoole in t~e interior of :.abrader. So that is just one of the ~anv outstandin g achiaver:1ents ~f lr. ~ u rrr ~ r. ri of course, t.,e operated the r:Iission' ,Jo::tt, t:te G1 ad "r"idir:.qs, ~,~.ic1...

T.ras ~uil t in ~l eHfoundl .~nd and coman c!ed hv nr. !'urrv and he used ::o tab~ his ;,ission all up and down the Southern Labrador coast. And of course, it t.Ti!.S 'l!.Pays a big day. There •.vere t~ro !'Jig days or three big days~I suonose 1in the life of many Labradorians and that was the day •.vhen the coastal 1:-o!l.t arrived, the day 1-1hen Dr. Padden arrived to nrovide t::edical services,and the rlav that Dr. Hurry arrived to provide soiritual services, so, Sir, in that light I l·muld say "lr. Burry !T'.ade a great contribution to this Province and especially to the oeople of Labrador. :!R.

SPEAKER: ·~. ~Ot'!'liE: The hon. member for Naskaupi. If I r.1ay for just a moment, ' "r. Speaker, I will associate myself l¥ith the sentiments expressed by the previous speakers. I knew Reverend Dr. Burry fairlv well. I nearlv got baotized by the honourable p.entleman but he happened to leave on sabbatical leave, I believe, in l'J30 and P.everend Denzil !lideout from Toronto hannened to replace him and I ended up in his arms in front of the altar at that particular ti~e. Of course, we can all, I think, recall many stories that the ".everend Dr.

Burry told. ~· 1 e are all, I think, fairlv familiar lvitl] the valuable work that he performec in Labrador in his t•.vent~r-five or thirty years of service. And of course, one of the more i~ortant as~ects of his work, I believe, 1vas the radio transmitters ,t<hich the hon. ll'.ernber for Fogo (Capt. E. l~insor) referred to just a few moments ago 1 the o!llv way of communication for the tranners other than sendin~ in mail by hanc over hundreds of miles of country.

And he is P:oing to be rel'lemhered ,.nth a great deal of affection ancl 1•ith a ~?reat deal of admiration 'u:< t !'1 e neonle of Lahrador, 2I!d certainly I am one of them and I '"oulr! very r.uch lik e to be associated Hith the sentiments e~nressed. 84

: rare!:\ 7, 1'?78 Tane 26 PRESE'ITPlG PETITIO"iS ~!R. SPEA..U.R: The han. member for ~020. CAPT. E. :.-msoR: :rr. Speaker, I beg to - Did I run in that leadership convention? - 1 ~arr:r o~. ~ fr . Sneaker, I ~eg to uresent a netition on behalf of the voters of Clar~:e 's " ead, r:ancer "ay in "'o"o :!istrict. The prayer of the netition is: "~·1e, the voters of Clarl·e' s Head, who are living to the ~~est of the cause1~av, petition the govern~ent through the ~apartment of Trans~ortation and Communications t~at a stretch of road ':>e uoo:raded and paved if oossible.

If nave!!!ent is not ;>ossible this year, ,;e ":ereby reauest the ~overn~ent and the S>'lll'e minister to have the road spra~red ·.olith calcium liquid to l:eeo the dust cio•m especially during the hot •.reather." ~·:ow, ~ : r. Speaker, havin~ the honour to present the first petition to the ne<~ llinister of ~ransportation and Communications, it would be an unforgivable sin if the hon. minister did not see to it that either this stretch of road would be caved or sprayed ·~ith liquid calcium. And I rrJ.~h t add, '·lr.

Sneaker, his pre<iecessor, the former }!inister of Transportation, did go t'o some pains last :rear and the year before to ;>rovide some spraying of liquid calcium on the dust:r roads in Fogo district and people are verv grateful. ~ut now, Sir, we are getting less and less miles of gravel road to ':>e paved exce~t on Fo~o Island, of course, •~hich I ":ope to bring to the minister's at tent ion a little later on. But this Sl!'.all stretch of road, "r.

Sper.~ker, is so insignificant in terms of dollars, and no1~ '"'hile they are paving t~e Gander Bay - or the Bonavista Bay loop road, it should not tal·.e too much money, time or effort to have that small stretch of road paved. I stronglv support the petition and request that the minister ~ive this matter very serious consideration. I ask that the petition be received and laid on the ta!Jle of the J'ouse and have it referred to t~"Je depart!:lent to ~ ·.tlic h it relates, 85

March 7, 1978, Tape 27, Pagel apb MR. SPEAKER: Transportation. SOME HON. ~ffiERS: MR. DOODY: The hon. Minister of Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker it is certainly a very gratifying experience indeed to be able to.stand up and say that I would certainly do everything that I possibly can ·within the limitations of my confreres in Treasury Board and Finance, who are renowned for their parsimoniousness. We will certainly do everything we can to spray at least as much liquid around the roads as my predecessor did. I will do everything I can in your district and in every other district, Sir.

If it is calcium, then we will certainly get the calcium in there too. It is all very necessary and worthwhile and the people in that parti~ular area of the Province will certainly not be overlooked. We will do everything we possibly can in their behalf. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Trinity - Bay de Verde. MR. F.B.ROWE: Mr.

Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of forty-one residents of New Harbour in the electoral district of Trinity - Bay de Verde and the prayer of the petition reads as follows, Sir: we,the undersigned citizens of Pond Road in the community of New Harbour, District of Trinity - Bay de Verde, do hereby petition the government to proceed immediately with the construction of a waterline to serice the seventeen homes of the undersigned. Such a waterline should be connected to the existing main waterline presently serving the two fish plants in New Harbour.

Justification: This is the fourth or fifth time we have applied for a water supply for this area, all to no avail. The wells presently serving this area have been tested by the Department of 86

March 7, 1978, Tape 27, Page 2 -- apb ~.JR. F. B . ROWE : Health and were found to be unfit for human consumption. Consequently, we are desperately in need of the water supply. - . Now, Mr. Speaker, in speaking in support of the petition; although this. may appear to be a relatively small petition, since it represents only forty-one residents of ~ew Harbour, I would like to point out that ~ew Harbour is the second largest community in the district of_Trinity­ Bay de Verde.

Unfortunately that particular community is not incorporated, it has no local government whatso­ ever, and there are many other sideroads and main roads in that community that have this very similar problem. They have been asking for water over the past fifteen years. There have been numerous petitions sent in. As I have mentioned, there are other areas in New Harbour that need this water. The water is indeed contaminated and the people at the present time, particularly in the Pond Road area, have to drive as far as twelve miles in order to get water fit to drink.

Sir, can you imagine the frustration the people must encounter when they have a huge waterline,built by DREE,running from a good supply of water past their homes to the two fish plants in the area and these people cannot connect up this water to their homes. They are further frustrated, Sir, by the numerous complaints and representations that they have made over the years and they have had no action on the part of any government over these years. These people, Sir, are quite willing to put the sidelines in tha~selves and they are quite willing to be metered.

All they require is seventeen hundred feet from the mainline to their area where they can connect up. 87

March 7, 1978, Tape 27, Page 3 -- apb MR. F.B.ROWE: Sir, I made representation to the Director of the Water Services Division in the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing with respect ot this particular request, and I would like to read it to the han. House. "This will acknowledge receipt of your letters" - as I ind.icated I had the same representation from other areas of New Harbour - "This will acknowledge receipt of your letters of February 20, 1978 requesting permission to connect to the fish plant.water supply in New Harbour. "This system is still under the jurisdiction of the Department of Fisheries.

It is expected that it will be passed over to this Department sometime in the future. Until such time as the system is formally accepted, the department is unable to consider these requests. In ~~e meantime, I would suggest that these people form a water supply committee because individuals are not permitted to connect to the system.

In this way we will be in a position to expedite their request once the system has been accepted by the department." Now, Sir, I would like it if the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing and the Minister of Fisheries could indicate to-che House, Sir, when this waterline will indeed be passed over to the provincial government,or more specifically, to the Department of Municipal A£fairs and Housing, and therefore to the Water Services Division,in order that these people may be connected up to this water supply.

I might add, Sir, in spite of what was indicated in the letter, it is my understanding that there is indeed a water committee set up representing these people, so there appears to 88

March 7, 1978, Tape 27, ?age 4 -- apb ~L~ . ?.B . ROWE: be some confusion, and it further points out, Sir, the need for the incorporation o.f such large communities as New !!arbour so that the people can get organized with a local governm ent and take care of these tasks and these problem s which are very ·difficult to take care of without local government. Sir, I give this my full support and I ask that the petition be pl ac3d on the Table of the Bouse and referred to ~~e departments to which it relates . I think in this case it would be the Department of I»lunicipal Affairs and Housing and the Department of Fishe ·ries. 89

:arc!l 7, 1:?73 Taoe 23 T~e han. me~ber for La?oile. Mr • speaker , I b e g 1 e a v e to pres en t L1 o petitions if that is an order, Sir; they concern the sa~e matter·and I just as soon,to save ti~e of the House, to present ::,oth petitions at the sane tine. He ':•::o :Jeti- tions, Sir, or.e comes fro~.l tt12 ccr.r7:uni:·t cf ·~rand ~rui: on t;le South•.·•est coast c.nd :;1e other setiticrr is"Fro.:i L a Po i l e .

And I ;;1 i g i: t s a y for t h e b e·r. e f i t o f t ,1 e t. o u s e, Sir, ~efore I read the prayer of the petition that this is a federal matter but I have been asked to raise it in the House,and in keeoing with oast tradition, Sir, I think that is in order,so I can refer the matter to the aopropriate provincial minister so that he in turn can bring pressure to bear on his federal counterpart to trv to do something about the problem that the people are te:;;ng us they i1;::ve in the prayer of these two petitions. It has to do, Mr.

Speaker, both petitions have tp do with CBC television programming and reception in the communities of Grand Cruit and LaPoile. The peoole are complaining about the interruptions ~hat they get JUSt arout every day when television is off the air, sometimes for part of the day, sometimes for almost all day. And then when it does come back on, ~!r. S,;eaker, I am tal d by the prayer of the petition that thereare still all kinds of interruptions in the picture,and sound troubles and you would need a bull­ dozer to clean the sno1·1 off the television set. :1r.

Soeaker. the tragic part of it,the unfortunate part of it ;s that the people in these two communities,a~ong with the people in Labrador west and in the Happy Valley - Goose Say a~ea, only have one cbannel. Here 1·1e are here in St. Jol1n 's, Stepnenvilie, l.orner ~:~rooK ana tJrana Falis ge-ctinq cable television where you can have a choice of s~ven or eiqht or nine or ten cRannels, 90

'!arch 7, 1973 Ta<Je 23 ,q - 2 i~R. NEARY: and these oeople in the t1·10 com­ munities on whose behalf I am presenting the petition, only have one channel to 1·1atch. And they are forced to watch Peter Gzowski at night whether they like it or not. :·Jo :~onder th~- people deem in Labrador '.lest are the best in the Province for olayin~ forty-fives because when t~e Peter Gzowski _comes op they either play forty-fives or drive their boot into the television. That is how much that program is hated in that ~rea.

And the same way down in my district, Sir; they only qet one cbannel,and pretty well all of LaPoile district,around the southwest corner once you get beyond Port-t~.:.:x-tlasques ::! J'• n on the Southwest corner they ~et one channel. have been two years now fiahtinq for the second channel for the peoole i~•that area without success,and I was told reo:ently by the 01·1ners of the· private network that the people have to pay for the transmitter themselves if they want to get the second channel. What kind of foolish nonsense is that? They have a franchise.

The :RTC H~ve granted the private broadcasting compan1 in this Province a license to operate radio and television and it is up to them to orovide the service to ~eople on the Southwest corner and on the Southwest coast of this ProvincA. And the same thing, Sir, in LaPoile, it says. "We, theUnder­ siqned residents of La Poi 1 e,"ant so;;1e ir:1prover.ent done '1li til the CSC net1•10rk for channel thirteen. 'le exr.erience in­ terruptions such as television off the air half the day and sor.etimes most all day, film breaks, sound trouble. :!e only got one~television to watch and that is channel thirteen.

All other residents of the South coast have channel ter. to stand by 11 hen chan n e 1 t hi r teen goes off the a i r? so t ~ e y do not make any ~urry to fix un the trouble. 9:1

3 '' T hi s da y and age we should have better servtce than this. ·le also would like to channel ten as well as channel thirteen." Can you iGaq- ine, ::r. Speaker, in ti1is Province today ::eo;.>le are askin·? for a second television c;~a;:n~l? So:;et:lin" ::~at t n en c a::, l 2 t e l e 't i s i on cor.; i n (1 i r. on to 1'1 of i t ,., n e r e •t c u can get another seven or eight cr1annel s ,a::d ti:ese peool:: are forced to watch the so called Can~dian content. t~at would make you ouke when you are forced to ·:atch it.

I clo not ~lame these oeoole for connlaining, Sir, have no hesitation at all in supporting the prayer of t~e oeti- tion and the peoole's Jissat~!f~ction with the c~c that cost the taxpayers of this countr,v S50Q r:;illion della"> a year to operate the CBC. And then you qat the arty ty~e foisting, forcing their pro9rans down the throats of the people of this country. $500 million dollars, a half a billion dollars to operate the C3C and they qot about less than ten percent of the viewing audience in Canada.

It is a disgrace, Sir, it is terrible and I can- not blame th~se people in these two com~unities and in Labrador Jest and in Haskaupi for cor:;clainin?. Petit;ons have been presented. The c~airman of the English network, the oresident of the English network 1·:ss in St.

John's last •.veek trying to cover up -I saw him beinq interviewed on tele ~i sicr the other night - trying to cover up for the rnismanaqement of the public funds. sol have no hesitation, Sir, in ta:Jling these two petitions and asking the ~1inister of Transportation and Communications if he ~ould take this matter uo with his counterpart and try to remedy the situation 92

"arc n 7, l ?7Z :> :: - .) • :·1R. NEAR Y: and try to see to it t hat t hese people who live in t hese re mote parts of t ~ e Province have an alternative, have a choice, t~at the y wi l l ~e oi ven a second channel s~ that t hey can t urn off - ~a t is t hat S ZO\•Is!(i S h O!I cal l ed? - SGi' E :w ~r . i ' E:':! E ~ S: · 1 i n e r; " · • i n 'J t e s l i '' '! . : · ~ . 'lEARY : - 'I i n e t ., · 1 i n u t e s L i v e i f t :- e :1 H r. t : o. AN RON • MEMBER : ~inety minutes dead! l-i.R. NEARY: Thac is wha~ one of my colleagues calls it. 93

: ~arc'l. 7, 1973 ...... __ ....... '!R. OOODY: T::te non. ~~nister of Iransporation ~~d Co~unicacions • ~r. Speaker, as the han. ~e~ber quite correctly pointe~ out,of course, this is a federal government responsibility and I can assume, and probably rightly so, that.the hon. :nember took the n.atter up ~dth t'l.e federal member for the district and ''i~h '"lis cc~mterpart- or uith ;:yy c::lUntet:'art:, c:1e ~en. :·~iniste:- of Cor=nunications in Ott.2.".Ja duri~g :~e rec~nt Liberal ?olicy Ccnventio:1 ther2.

The si ::1a tion is as the :..on. ~ember describes it, one that is absolutely ridiculous and one that is insufferable and ~~auld not be tolerated· in any other rart of Canada. I can ".-7ell understand his sentiments <hen he feels that these people are Hilling to puke at t!l.e thoughts o:: ::aving to sit ninety r.~inutes :.ri th Peter Gzc~~ski. I feel t:-lat they have some advanta~es over us in having the set diccnnected froc tir..e to time '~hile tl1at progra=e is on.

I feel they have a far ::tore legitimate beef though, a..~d my han. friend has just left, -in ~ssing . the opportunity of seeing uninterruptedly Brouh's Half Hour, which I find to be very informative, and instructive, entertaining and acusing. Unfortunately the gentleman has left the gallery at the ~resent time. SO~ HON'. YEMBJ::::RS: Hear! Hear! !iR.

DOODY: ~le certainly will do everything that •.ze possibly can to see that those people in that part of the district have the o~~ortunity of a choice, both in channels and perhaps later on in the course of ev-2~ts, in =mbers. ~·Je will do all we possibly can to arrange all t~ese things - and '"e will :ake it up \lith out counterparts in OttaHa to see that that hap]lens. Tha..~k you, ~~r. Speaker. ~. SPEAKE::l: The hon. member for Bellevue. ~ffi.. CALLAN: Hr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of fifty-five r7sidents from the district of 3ellevue, who 94

~·~arch 7, 1978 Tape ~o. 29 :·!R • CALLA:! : live in the town of Adeytown- or Adeytmm, both pronunciations are correct, I belieYe- that is in Trinity Bay. The prayer of the petition, }:r. Speaker, is as follows: "l.;e the undersigned residents of tht: community of AdaytC".m, T .B., hereby petition the Gove=:nent of Ne~.rfoundland, through the hon. :unister of 7ransportation and Communications, to give i~edi2te consideration co pavin~ t he ~ain and br~•ch roads throug':J. the co=unity of Adeytown. This is the second time that our community has had reason to petition the government in this connection.

" 1 ~e feel ver; strongly that we receive the same consideration that was given Deep Bight and all of the signatures in this petition hereby strongly support our raquest i n this regard." Now, ~·~. Speaker, there are fifty-five signatures, that is including my own. But, ~r. Speaker, in supporting this petition perhaps I should say that there is a principle at work here. There is a principle involved here and ~~e number of signatures is not at all i~orta~t.

Perhaps for the benefit of hen. members '.rho ::o.ay ::10t be familiar 'nth Adeytown or Deep Bight, since Deep Big:1t wns ~ntioned in the prayer, perhaps I should locate it on a cap; if you can imagine driving west on the Trans Canada, just before you get to Clarenville, there is a loop road; the loop turns out towards Adeytown and that same little stretch of loop road, about ~~o miles long, loops dmm through Adeytown, then to Deep Sight, back to the TCH 3Ild of course you are on the ·~ay to Clarenville. Mr.

Speaker, during the SUilll!ler I ''as called down to attend a public meeting in Adeytown and when I got to the meeting I was informed, ~~is was in August, I Nas ~=crmed ~h2t the residents had heard that Deep Bight llas going to be paved but that Adeytowu was not; and so they had met the night before they invited me- they had ~"'o consecutive meetings, t>m consecutive nights. The. ni ;;ht before they had met and ~hey had decided to go to Clarenvi~le and check 95

~!arch 7, 1.9 78 Tape t<o. 29 :!R. CALL..o\1<: ';ith the Department of Transportation and CoEmunications Division there and they lvere informed by that division that plans had been made in '74 to pave the whole loop, but they had been given orders last Spring to drop the idea of paving Adeytown, but just pave to the last house in Deep oight. ~ow then, ~r.

Speaker, I went to the meeting 2.nd they told !"..e t:tis ;md said, "Q!(ay, t.:e ,,.ill try to ~et ~old o: che Minister o£ Transportation and Comm~~ications ~d ~ron this thing out and so on." So I tried to contact the rri.nister and finally I, and the residents of Adeytown,gave up on that idea and so 1-1e - one gentleman in particular who 1vas chairing up the committee called the Premier on three or four occasions, got no results there.

A letter did arrive,by the lvay, after about a week or ~;o later,a letter did arrive from the former minister, the ;·!inister of Transportation and Co=unications at that time, explaining that the road could not be done for lack of funds and so on, even though, ~r. Speaker, I know and t.~ey knew that no contract was called for Deep Bight. Deep Bight was just tacked on to a paving project that Tvas being =ied out on Random Island and other parts of the district of Trinity North. Now, }!r. Speaker, I have located the area, I have located Deep Bight and Adeytown on the map as a loop.

Hany of the people driving to Deep Bight to St. John's and areas east of Adeytown, they leave the Trans-Canada at the Adeyto1m intersection and they drive to Adeyto1m in order to get to Deep Bight. ~.any of them do, tourists and 1-1hat have you, raising dust as they go. Well, ~!r.

Speaker, something that I did not mention. that I should make mention of, and perhaps this explains 1o~hy the pavement was laid to the very last house in Deep Bight, is because it is there that the imaginary boundary lies between the district of Trinity North, represented by the ~linister of Social Services A..'l HON. ~!E~ER: Badly, mind you, badly! 96

March 7, 1978 Tape 30 PK - 1 Mr. Callan: -the boundary ends at the last house in Deep Bight, and the district of Bellevue starts with Adeytown, wny that line was drawn there - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Shame, shame! MR. CALLAN: -Mr. Speaker, is beyond me, one would think that well 1 if you are going to have two communities there on the same piece of loop road let us put them all in one district one 1vay or the other. A.'l HON. MD!BER: Right, right! MR. CALLAN: You know, one way or the other. But no, there 1vas where the line was drawn~ znd, Mr. Speaker, - .~'l HON. MEMBER: That is where the pavement ends. MR.

CALLAN: And that is where the pavement ended. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, I can think of no other example, no better example of blatant, petty, partisan politics - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. CALLAN: - than was played there. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: I do not think my intervention will come as a total surprise to the hon. member for Bellevue, but I refer him to Standing Order 97, "There shall be no debate on a petition". I would request him to bear that Standing Order in mind. The hon. member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, it goes without saying that I thoroughly support the prayer of this petition, and Mr. Speaker, I hope that the present, the new "nci the present Minister of Transportation and Communications will consider all of the facts as I have outlined in the last couple of minutes pertaining to this piece of road, It should have been done last year. You know, obviously it is going to ~e done this year. It is too blatant. It is too ~latant.

And I hope that the new Minister of Transportation and Communications,when the paving equipment is there n~~t year to do the Southwest Arm, Hillview, and the other areas of my district which will no doubt be done this 97

March 7, 1978 Tape 30 Pk - 2 Mr. Callan: Summer, that Adeytown will be done as well, and I hope that the present Xinister of Transportation and Communications, Mr. Speaker, will not be as political as the former minister. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, I support the prayer of this petition, and I ask that this petition be tabled and referred to the department to which it relates. MR . ~PEAKER: ~!R. ~</. DOODY: The han. ~!inister of Transportation and Communications . Mr. Speaker, I certainly sympathize with him and support the hen. gentleman.

I was delighted with the opportunity to hea1: the geographic description of Adeytown. NR. CALI..A..'l": I was going to call it that. MR. DOODY: I could remember distinctly, an awfully long while- I guess it was in 1947 or 194~-r.,hen I first went down there buying herring barrels from Captain Simwest Adey,-and the road was not comparable to what it is now, and I do not know - how many people are living there now? MR. CALLAN: All employed. One hundred percentage employment. MR. DOODY: Oh,yes it always has been, and Capt. Adey had a schooner, a trader at that time. And they are an excellent group of people.

I have no doubt in my mind at all that they had absolutely no say at all in the drawing of the imaginery boundary, and I feel reasonably certain that the hen. minister who proceeded me in that department was certainly not conscious of this boundary. MR . CALI.AJ.'l : Yes he was. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. DOODY: He was renowned ior his non-partisanship, renowned for his fairness in distributing the meager funds that were at his disposal, have lavished funds upon Liberal districts much to my consternation as former President of Treasury Board. Shocked me!

Horrified me~ Spent more money,I understand,in the district of Bellevue last year than he did in Trinity North- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 98

March 7, 1978 Tape 30 PK - 3 MR. DOODY: -which absolutely horrified me. However,we will do what we can to correct the situation this year, and the good people in Adeytown have my full support, and we will do everything we possibly can for them. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for Burgee-Bay d'Espoir. ~!R. SI"'MONS: Sir, I certainly do not want the opportunity to pass without supporting this petition from my colleague for Bellevue because it represents the kind of problem that a lot of districts face.

In addition,it represents something else that he did not point out, the big advantage if this bypass were completely paved is that it would be a way to bypass at least a portion of the Trans-Canada Highway. And God knows that with the record of the former, the deposed minister, the minister Ottawa refused to talk to any more - SOME HON. XEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: - with but the record of him - AN HON. MEMBER: Welcome back, 'Ro~er'. MR. SIMMONS: -the deposed minister, with his record on the TCH, any excuse we can get to bypass even a few feet of the TCH would be a blessing.

So I appeal to the new, bright, ?hining, polished Minister of Transportation and Communications - AN RON. MEMBI~: (Inaudible) if it were up to you. MR. SIMMONS: Ah: that reminds me. I had a ride the other day on a portion of the Trans-Canada, Mr. Speaker, not the portion that this will bypass, but I think it is relevant, and the truck driver of the tractor trailer, the day after the announcement of the minister's being deposed as the ~linister of Transportation, and the truck drivers were on the CBs - MR. MORGAN: MR. SPEAKER: MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. A point of order. Mr.

Speaker, if the hen. gentleman wants to attack me he has ample time in the Throne Speech debate. I understand now he is speaking on a petition asking for paving of roads, and it is not the TCH he 99

~rch 7, 1978 Tape 30 ?K - 4 Mr. }forgan: :-IR. SPEAKER: is talking ~oouc. LaPoile. MR . NEARY: On that poin t of order, the hon. member for That is not a poin t of order, ~- Speaker, that is merely a difference of opinion between two members . Obviously the hon. member for Burgeo-Bay d ' Espoir (}~ . Simmons) is ~e~in2 to gen tleman, and the hon . gentleman reacts by :ais i ng a ?Oint of orciec. In actual fact, Sir, it is not a ?oint of order, it :s just a difference of opin:!.on between two members. SOliE HON. ~IBE.'~S: Hear, hear! 1.00

darcn 7,1976 Tape 1\o, 31 iili-1 :·U.'l.. SPE~it: I s.1o tl:: poiru: ouc: co n~n. i:lemcers tiut apart £rom Sca~cimg Orcit!r 'j7, wi1icn I reaci jusc a f.aw :o~oments ago,stanciil,!; Jrcier 92 doel:i require thac: •lon. :nembers confine their re.c:ar ks W•lCil speaking on petitions ::.o the material alle~ation of ti1e petitic :, tne nuguer of signac:ures, ec:c.

Remarks should really be upon the prayer of t~e petition,wuicn is the paving of a certain road or ::oaus in Acieytown,ana I woul..i point out in a :1ore gen.ioral conc:e:;: t as well from bot;, siues of tn e tiouse t.1ac c:.1.:r~ s.1ould t•ot oe iucerrupcion when the oemUer on cne opposit~ si~e is apea~in~. The !:lon. member. :-;R. SL·L .. 1uNS: i·ir. Speaker, my trucK driver friena conte l!qlac:iug t lle aci.vantages of usiug tilis bypass once it is paveci ·;.rus pointiiOg out ;:;e ~zards of driving the wuy i1e has co now.

And he is r,wst complimentary to the new minisc:er; i1e i1as not i!lec: him but ne has already undertaken to ren~e some sections oi the Trans-canacia U. nis i10nour anu he said - anci he was on ti1e Co talking to his frieuci anu i1e said, "We have now called the sm;~l.)_ nnt""lo~ 'l!. ~lle TCH, we :1ave renamed them and we now call tnem lJoody' s J.Ji.;uples." So you see tney ;lave a certain affection, and we all in this iiouse have a certain affection for tht: present minister . Now I am u.ot tal:....ing about the: <leposed wiuister,I = talking about tl,.: present ~inister.

We have a certain affection for him, truck~riv~rs <.lo, people who want that road paved c.iown ti1rougil Adeytowu up ::o ti1e !Jeep Bigl1t pavei:lent have a certain affection for the new wirlister. Tile truck ciriver 1 s affection clic.l not a."< tend - or perhaps it did extnr.c.i to tile olu minister, the deposed minister, tile Ottawa ::eject caiuis~er, because tle said. ile are .;oin~ to o<.eep our aallle for t :.e bi;; potholes. Tne s~aall ones we are soirl;; to call Doody's )iropl.:s, out the bi6 ones ·w-e snall continue to call - you .;uessed it- •·!organ' s toout" .'' Hr.

Speaker, I ileal: til.)' suppo1:t the prayer of tilis petition • SOill: HuH. :1E:!J>ERS: Hear, i1ear! 1.01.

~Jarcil 7,197 o Tape ;:ion, mo=w.ber for Tri:J.ity-nay r..e Verde. :·1r. Speaker, I ,..;oull.i li~e very i)riefly, ~ir. ~pea~r, to support the ?rayer of the petition for che paving of the road goiug throu~• Acieytown.and to some degree come to c.<1e defence of the former lfinister of Tra.J.sportc.tion and Cowmun:i:cations. SOHE HON. ~JE:!BEL5: • :J:\., F.B. £\0\-iE: Oil, - 1 0.;.1 • dr. Speai..er, I ;;as sayiu;; ,if t.Ho ::on.

UJ.inister ;.,·aula listen, t.1a: I am cor: .. liu~ co c ... lt:: u.~fcnce oi c.le for..uer ~·liai.stcr of Tran3portation anci Coi:illliunicac:ious <.:.nc. : c.:.u -..11-c.ll <..mci-'Orstanci why .:e :u.i.g,lt not l1ave understooci where tlle bounary lay iletween the two districts in question because ne was too "':lusy a=ouncing fish plants for the L·linister of Fisheries. SO'lli nO:~. i!El·illERS: • .u;.. SPE.\,;(ER: Hear, .

I near • I t;link I shoula point out.,alti10ugh it is acauemic~ tl1e i1on • .>entleman aas til~en nis seat, t,lat ;1is lase sentence - SOHO:: HO,{ 1'i.E . .-iliER5 : 0Ll, on! i·.!i{, SPEAKER: Order ple.o.se! >~s last sentence was out of order. PRESE:iTING REPORTS BY ST.\J.~DING Al'u SPECIAL COM:-!ITTEES dk. S?EAKER: The l10n, member for Ferryland, ail. • PO ;,'ER: On behalf of the select committee appointeJ to draft a reply to the speech of tiis :lonour the Lieutenant-Governor, we present the report to the select committee as follows; To Iiis Honour the Lieut;mant-Governor, the non. Garcion A.

Winter day it please Your ;rono•.u:. ;.;e the Ccnu:;;.ons of .-:ew·four.dland in L~gislative session ~s~~cbled beg to tnan~ Your Honour for the gracious speecn wi1ica ".:our Honour nc:.s addr<:ssed to this House. Signed by the w.er.J.bers for Naskaupi, St-. Jonn 1 s :{est and Ferry land. :-!R. SPEAKER: rr.e han. minister. d.:{: ~IA':WARD: ;-lr, Speaker, I wish to table the ~nual report: for 1977 of :lewfoundlanc. and Labrador Computer Services.

:-o.arcil 7 ,lS/S .i..'{. s:nM.J::R: ·;:ape <io. 31 .;:.;- 3 r~a hon . diniscer v.f E'isheries . . lr. !.peaka r, i '-'ant :o :aole c-:e ioll.J •oo~in_; regul.aciocs ·oo~nich were Ulau.a in 1:.77 : ::~e Fis;teri .as Loan ,{ e:;ula~iocs l~j77 ac.enoed, Fish Inspections am.andments 1969, the Fisaeries Loan aegula tions 1977, AQenciment ~o. 4, t\egulations Amend::lent 1977 . :·rR. SPEA.~R: .l.'{. OOOt.lY: ton . :li;lister or Inter sovernn.eutal Af£a.i.::s. :1r . :>peakar, I ·,..oulu 1~~ to :aol<i t:e ~ula ~ions .:~oco rize d snow vc.ticlcs a;l.i ali-tar::ain vcaicles act .

I ti~~ ~ou r ~onour ~ade a rulin~ last year that these copies of regu lations and so on coulu be cabled si!:!ply by ;ivins them. to the ClerK of c.;e r.ousa and navin;; thea consiaere~ as taoled . ts t~t correct? I t hink it ~as in = ~e iuceres: of saving c~e. "uc r itesitate co oo it without chec:-in:; ·.,;icll 'lou r nonour .

I recal l cnat cue =:cer .. du come u;; <U:c there '"'as some ciiscussivn on ic . rf ;;:y 1Jemory is correc:, 0\Jc I will cned,; t ne record on mis, cne.re was som.e objection in tilac if it were not publically seated chat somecniog had been cabled it woula be accessible but 9eop.le would not kno:;, it was chere. 1 03

:·a r c:. 7, 107'1 rc - 1 I Hould think we should have an a.nncuncetnent in the !louse co the e·fiect t hat sor.1ething i s taolec. If !U)' m~ry i s correct that is what t he consens\~ was l ast year. The hon. :~nister of ~inance . c.:xi>led t he annual r epon, l 0 i7, of the ··ewfounrlland Linu or ro r nora::io n a.,d the fo urt."'t annual report: of the :ie!~f oun dland Li quor Licenci.:1:t iloa r d of : "'te period April 1, lf!76 to '-~ rch 31, 1?77 and coll11'lend it t o all hon. gentleeen . ·:DTICES QF :!OTIC!: :'R. S'!'f.~E'X : ~ e hon . ~nister . ~r.

Spea ker, r ~t ive notice that: I ~~ill on con:orrow a sk lea ve co int reduce a bill, ":\n :\c t To ::epeal 'rtle Govermn~nt 's l! r ban Hobile Homes

(1959) Limite d Confi=ation Of Agr eement P.c c, 197t. " ~t;R . SPEN<ER: The hon . minister. '"'· · !'!ClC 'AV: On behalf of my colleague, the hon. ~linister of Social Services, t give notice that I "'ill on to:norro v ask leav e to i ntro duce a bill, ''An Act To 1\mend The Adop tion Of Chil-:!ren Act, 1972'' . O!tA'L ()Tlf. STLO~S ~!R . SPEA.'<E!t: The hon. Leader of the Oppos ition. '"' .. l~"' • !-i • 'ii • ROt-It: ~! r. Speal:e r I I :~ou ld l.ik.e tQ ci rec c a questi on co the 1lon . the " remier. t.rould the hon. the Pr emie r c onf!r::~ .

Sir, or deny ~~at he or any of his collea~es in th e govern~ent has r eceived '~ritten or or al communication d urin g ,say, t he oasc year, from any credit ratin~ a~encies in Canada or t he Unite d S~ates tha t t his !'r ovince 111av ~ e in dange r of losin g ics credit rc.t: ing in the ·.,on<l r:.ar '<et? ":R. S'!'":.l.KER: The "on . the :>rernier. 104

:'arch 7, 1978 PP.E-!IEP. ~!OORES: '!R. w. ~. Rm.ffi: Tape 32 ::c - 2 :To, :1r. Speaker. ~'r. Speaker, just in case the Premier may be answering it strictly without resorting to a general answer, would the Premier say t~hether the government has been warned in any ~-1ay during tte past year ~y any credit rating ~gency to cut its srending, failing •;:-.ic~ the crecit ratin~ of the Province mil!l-tt [.e forced to 20 dovm? :he han. the ?remier. ?1\!::·m::R l'OO~.ES: T1->.e answer is still ·:o, ''r. Soeaker.

Obviously when bonc!s are Rold either in ~:ew York or wherever it may be, when the prospectus is being dravm up the advisors we "have to the govern­ t~ent, uhethe-r they be !~errill L:;nch or Ames or :lurns or •,:noever it may be, obviously advise the ~overnment tmat they think is possible. ~~ey advise the government to the effect that they think tve should (

a) o"bviousl•: have a l:lalanced budget. possibly a sur';)lus 'vith the provincial debt as it is: errually, .;.c the due diligence r:eetings that are attended hy t!"!e ~'inister of Finance and his advisors, tl-te credit position of the Province is t~ell explained, and other than that, Sir, other than the normal approach to it •,;e have had the review by Standard and Poors and Yoodv's this past year, I believe, and they,of course, aske-1 a 1-'reat mane' ~uestions about the situation. They do not threaten that the rating is gain<! to be drooped.

There is alwavs that danger and there is aluavs the hone, of course, that it will go un. But as far ~s an outright statement from t he l)ond houses themselves to the effect that the rating ~Vould go dmm unless such and such happened - not ta my know·ledge, no. ~ T. . SP":A;<rP.: question~r. :II'.. \J. 'l. T'O~TE: '!r. Sneaker, a surpl~r.:encaey. A su'[)plementary by the orip-inal !·!ay I reauest the indul~ence of t'l~ Uouse. It is Standard and Poors, :.'r. Speaker, and Uoocly 's that I am referrinp. to rather t:ha'"! t!-e hond 'louses themselves - the cr~dit rating agencies.

Pas tl:te Premi~r or th~ former "in is ter of ""inance or the "Jresent '[inister of Finance received any oral or •rritten co=unication from either 1.05

•·arc~ 7, l"i"l r:c - 3 '-'R. " . :: • P.Om: : of these a~encies t~at t~ey ha ve to take certain ::easures o r risk losin2 t!teir credi t r:u:in~? :-!!t. S?E ~.!<E?: ?!'2!E!'. ' :OO?.ES: The '1on. ~ he Pre!llier. :io t to r.ty /.now ledge . .:~s ! say, .. r. S?eaker, ?utI t•il l ask c:-,e previous ''ir.is t e r of "'inP.r.ce co s-.cal: , and !le has 'lad ;,ore direc t cont;J.c~ ·d.~!-. d:er.t tha."l ;: 'lo~;lci ':.:tve :1ac, so r •;ould ask chat he ans••er the ques cion. The hon . minister . 106

March 7, 1978, Tape 33, Pagel-- apb HR. DOODY: The hope, as the Premier has indicated, the hope of a credit rating upgrading always looms before a borrower, and the spectre or dread of a credit rating downgrading is always a fear. We have not had any oral or written communication from either of the rating houses during my tenure as Minister of Finance to the effect that if such and such did not happen, or if the Province did not do so and so, then the credit rating would drop.

There was a report, I remember, carried by the news media some months ago to the effect that one of the rating houses was quoted as saying that if the Province had not taken its decision on Labrador Linerboard Limited at the time it did, then the probability was that there would have been a downgrading of the rating. As I say, that was a communication to the news media or, at least, it was a release by the news media and was not communicated to the Province while I was Minister of Finance.

I might also say that, of course, as the present minister is aware, and the Premier and members of the House, natural prudence dictates that one does the best one can to stay within what one feels are reasonable limits when it comes to preparing a prospectus, because the credit rating is an important part of the entire process. MR. W.N.ROWE: Mr. Speaker, if I may. MR. SPEAKER: Opposition. MR. W.N.ROWE: One final supplementary, The hen.

Leader of the Just for clarification and for the record, and to make sure there is no misunder­ standing about it, would the former Minister of Finance, now Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, indicate - is he indicating that at no time during the Linerboard mill - 107

March 7, 1978, Tape 33, Page 2 -- apb MR. W.N.ROWE: the government was pumping money into the Linerboard mill over the past couple of years - that the credit rating agencies or the bond houses from which we ordinarily raise money did not indicate to the minister that the Linerboard mill should be closed down or curtailed in operation or else we may risk losing our credit rating in ~~e American bond market? MR. SPEAI<ER: Intergovernmental Affairs. MR. DOODY: The bon. Minister of That question is a very difficult one to answer.

The rating agencies certainly did not tell us that this had to happen, that the Linerboard mill had to close or else we would have had a downgrading in the rating. It was pointed out and suggested - MR. HODDER: That is not what the Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations said in Stephenville. MR. DOODY: It was pointed out by the various bond houses and fiscal agents and advisors to government that there was a very real danger of this happening if the government continued to pour money into Labrador Linerboard Limited at that time. There was a risk element involved.

It was a risk that government felt was not in the best interest of the Province to take, and so the subsequent decision was undoubtedly influenced by that calculated advice by the bond houses, by our fiscal advisors. Certainly it was only advice. It was calculated, it was experienced and it was educated advice, and advice which we felt the Province should accept, but it was not from the rating houses, because my understanding is the rating house do not offer that sort of advice. They tell you what your rating is and they do not tell you what to do 108

March 7, 1978, Tape 33, Page 3 -- apb 1-IR. DOODY: MR. SPEAI<ER: member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: or what not to do. A supplementary. ~he han. I would ask the Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations to either con~irm or deny that he said, with a tape recorder running in Stephenville, "Those people in the States came to us and said"- or words to that effect -"that the Labrador Linerboard Limited is costing the Province too much money and we are closing the mill for that reason." Now I have a transcript of that. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Manpower and Industrial Rela-tions. MR.

ROUSSEAU: (Inaudible) there is no difference, in my opinion - you went to the han. Minister of Governmental Affairs - in what he just said and what I said. I never said 'the rating houses, 1 I said that the people who gave us their advice suggested that it would be more difficult. I never said it would be impossible with the amount of money that would be spent on Labrador Linerbcard, when we did not know, or we did not have a set figure on it. In substance, what the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs said is, in substance, what I said.

I never mentioned the bond houses or anybody else, just our fiscal advisors. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAI<ER: A supplementary . MR. NEARY: Would the Premier indicate to the House if the former Minister of Finance, who was booted out of his portfolio because he overspent - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! 1.09

March 7, 1978, Tape 33, Page 4 -- apb ~. SPEAZER: I think I mus t draw to the hon. gentleman 's attention the Standing Orders with respect to Question Perios, Standing Order 31, that no argument is allowed and only opinion which is necessary to make the question understandable. The hon . member for LaPoile. 1i0

~!arch 7, 1978 Tape jo. 34 :fr. Speaker, that the han. former ~ ·finister of Finance was removed from that portfolio because of a gross mismanagement in overspending - ~. tol'.;:.{. RO~-l'E: ~!R. )lEARY: Incompetence. - incompetence and spending beyond the last Budget that was brought into the House and creating a $1J ~illion deficit in the Province, ?Utting tre Province on the 'Drink of bankruptcy. :!It. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier. P'U:riER ~!OORES : :1r.

Speaker, obviously the question as such I suppose is not worthy of comment because it was a speech rather than a question, The fact is that the previous ~ister of Finance :<as one of the finest ministers of finance this Province has ever had. SOXE HO~. ~}ffiERS: Hear, hear! Pr>.E:·ITER :100RES: He was a verJ conscientious gentl~~~. and rather than ~•as tin-; f=cis, Sir - ~ ·~ .. S~NS: You had to get rid of him. P:'.E~ITER l'DOP.ES: :lot at all, it \vas not a matter of getting rid of him at all.

He just ;noved to higher things and t:1e f:1ct is that it ha::; 1:een r:1rely in the :1istory of any Cabinet t;1at any ::J.an has perfonz:.ed as diligently and as '"ell. Sf'J~'E HC~;. : !:::: '3E:!.S : MR. SPEAKER: ~!R. :n:ARY: l1R. SPEAKE~: :'R.. ~EARY: Hear, li. e~r! The han . me~~ ~r for LaPoile. A supplementary question, Hr. Spea!•er. A supplementary. :·1oulci the hon. Premier indicate to the :-:ouse if there is any concern, or has the gave=nt' s fiscal agents e':pressed an opinion or concern about this $10 million deficit, overspending, and mismanagement on the part of the administration? ~!R.

SPEAKER: 1":1e han. the Premier. Pl'.E~!IER l!OO?.ES: ~· !r. Speaker, I kr.o•; nothing of any mis:nana gerner.t on behalf of the :~nister of Finance or of this administration. As a matter of fact,thin gs have never t een managed better. 111

:·!arch 7, 19 78 ::!1.. :rc:P..3Y: ;-l!t. SPEAKER: :IR. ;.r"~RY: Tape :lo. 34 :n·! - 2 .\ .supplementary, ~I. Speaker. A supplementary. ~. Speaker, I think the whale world knows that there is a $10 million deficit in current account 1 :~hich is IOOst unusual and devastating to the credit of the Province. Would the Premier indicate if the government's fiscal agents ':lave expressed any opinion on this verJ, very serious financial situation that •Je finci ourselves in at t~~e present tir:e? :'R. S'?E.\.:C::R: The han. Premier. !:r.

Speaker, I might say that the reason for a deficit in w~e 3udget this year in this Province, as ~ell 1 by the way1 as every other Province in Canada, and some of them for over SlOO million, as opposed to $10 !'lillian, Has the :act that last year \vhen any Province tvas making up its estimates it takes the federal government's forecast as to what they think is going to be the situation regarding ~qualization federal government, yes. ?RE}~R HOORES: "o. No. This is true. - regarding whatever the case may be in cost shared progr~es or revenues to the'have-not' or the revenues fro1:1 the'have' provinces.

The fact is ::hat because of the international, I would suggest, as tvell as the national situation, these calculations •.rere \iildly out last year and it is a fact in every province in this country and it is not something that could have been estimated for budgetary purposes. HR. :lEARY: !~. SPEAKER: !rR. SZARY: A supplementary question, ' 1r. S:>ea~<er. A supplementary. In vie•.o~ of t:1e serious fina.'lcial condition of t~e Province at the present time, Sir, would the Premier indicate to the House when government intends to table its est~~ates for the next fiscal year? MR. SPEAKER: The han. P~emier. 1.1.2

~:arch 7, 19 78 Tape ~~o. 34 P:ti:~ITER ~~O?.ES: Yes, the intention of course is for the l11nister of Finance to bring down the budget as quickly as possible, ~tr. Speal.er, and hopefully ";;ithin th.e next "eek or two or three. ~ffi. SPEA.:C::R: ~·lR. CALLA.:-! : ~e hen, menber for 3ellevue. l~r. Sp::aker, -:J.Y question is for the Premier. In view of t:te fact that no '"ention ·~as :o!ade of the Corr.e By Chance oil ref::.ner;:o in the Speech from the Throne yesterda)', can it :,e assumed that the government has given up on efforts ::o find a buyer for the refinery or to reactivate it or '~hat have you? MR.

S1':..\¥.ER: The hen. the Premier. PP.E:1IER ~!CORES: :Jo, not at all, Y.r. Speaker. The fact is that as the hen. mel:lber !.-.r.o,Ts it is ir. the hands of a rece:.•ror :~.ow u ho is accepting bids for hopefully the revitalization of the refiner:•. Until such time as these bids have all been recei•red and assessed, particularly by the first mortgage holder, the British Government, ar.d Kliemmrt :lens on, and ourselves, of course, and the other secured creditors, until such time as the bids are in and an assessment can be made, no decision can be made.

I suppose it could have been mentioned in the Speech from the Throne but the fact is that I think most people ~re totally f~'lliliar .:ith what the situation is at Come By Chance and it '~auld only be repetition of an effort that is trying to be ~ade of course to try to zet it back on stream. ~!R. SPEAKE!t: :m. CALLAil: A supplementary. ~~r. Sr>eaker, :1as the govern·ment car"!"ied on any negotiations at all with the form~r operator, Jolm Shaheen, in any efforts to have him reopen or revit~lize it? ~TIL 3PEAKER: ine hon. Premier. P'RE~ITER ~ORES : ~:r.

Speak~r, the government has not carried on ar.y negotiations ~it~ any party. We have talked to all and everyone,I 3uess, '·Tho have been interested in a general t~ay. The only negotiations that can be carried on is through t i1e receiver. ~~. ~OL-\..."1: ''R. SPE_;,K:'::t: A su;:>pl(:':lentary, ·~r. Sneaker. ,\ SU?plen:entary, the original questioner, follm;e~ ':>y the han. gentlerna.""l from Conception 'Cay South ·.1it ;1 a sup:_:lle!::entary. :1:13

:!arch 7, 1978 ::ape ~:o. 35 :;:-: - 1 :·!R. CALLAN: ~-iould the Premier either confirm or dec.y the fact that Gltramar • Golden Eagle, Holyrood· have the intention, if and ~;hen they do take over the operation at Come By Chance,to use it merely for storage and spare parts and so on rather than utilize it to its full capacity~ ~!:\.. SI'E...U::ZR: The hon. the Premier. I thick, :~r. Speaker, it is rc.ir to say t~;ere are three or four proposals altoget~er of ·.vhic:1 Zltr=ar, as I understand, is one oi them, along the li11.es t:1at t;-:.e hon. gentleman says. A21 :10:1. l· !E~ER: :-!o spare parts.

PREHIER :!OORES : :\o spare parts in•rolved, They have got a proposal in and,as I say,it would be very u.-.fair to ;;tal~e a co=ent I think on any of those proposals without co!!'~"llenting on all of ther.: and it would only be opinion because whilst the Province has an interest in getting the refinery operating again, and that is our primary concern, I think it is fair to say that, as most gentleman on the other side of the House,!~ sure,realize, that when an outfit is in bankruptcy and a receiver has been appointed, until such time as the receiver has the total position to m~~e recommendation to the secured creditors, there is very little ~•at can in fact be done. ~-!R.

SPEAKER: a supplementary. ~. NOLAN: The hon. member for Conception 3;;.y South, \·Tould the hon. Premier- or is the hon. Premier then saying that he personally did not meet ~rith any representative of Ultramar or Golden Eagle in co=ection with the purchase of the refinery? :!R. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. P:tE::IER :!CORES: No, personally I have not, !-!r. Speaker, not with Ultramar or Golden Eagle. I have met with ~~.

Sha~een on occasion "'hen he has qeen ;lere; I have. !;let 1-lith people from Roman Corporation "'hen they 1;ere here over the years,but Ultramar and Golden i::ag:!.e, no 1 I have not. ~ - ffi. :-l"EA?.Y : ~rr. Speaker, a su?rle:r.entary. 114

~1arch 7, 1Sl7 S !T,. SPEA.'<ER: : !R.. XE.ARY : Tape . ~ l o. 35 A supplementary, the hen. ;ne!::ber for LaPoile. \Jill t.i.e Premier i.."ldicate to the House if the final decision on ~~e disposal of the oil refinery rests with this government or •.;ith the receivers? T:1e :1on. the Preltier. P:tE~liER ~· !DO RES : Legally with the receiver, :·'r. Speaker, ·and t~e first =or~gage ~older, but the :act is of course t~at it is located in =he Province.

The fact is that obvic-usl:: c:1e govermr.enc :1as a very •rested interest in what happens to the refinery ar.ci we •o·ould certai.."lly ~xpect to have a major i.."lput before any final decision is made. YR. ~EA.~Y: A supple:nentary, ~ rr. Speaker. ~!R. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hen. me!l!ber for LaPoile, followed ':lv t!1e han. ::1en:ber for Bellevue ~dth a suppler.1entar:r, then the hen. member :for Hindsor - Buchans. ~ . :'lEARY: Hr.

Speaker, in the event that the receivers decided to go on ~,eir own, you know~and go to the ECGD and negotiate the disposal of the oil refinery on their own, could the Precier indicate what steps the Province could then take to protect their investment? ~IR. SPEA ... J<ER: The han. the Premier. PRE"HIER :XJORES: That is a hypothetical question, :1r. Speaker. 'ri1e fact is that obviously until such time as something lvas dane contrary to the government's wishes, we would not take any position and ;lopefully it will be done in conjunction 'lith the goverDI'!ent's :lishes, in co-operation 'dth the government.

A final supplementary, the original questioner, and then the hon. men:ber for 1;'indsor - Buci1ans. :!R.. CALLA."l: l1r. Speaker, tvould the Premier i::.fcrr• the !louse ,yhat efforts his government are !1!aking to live up to a promise that was made on the eighth floor of this building at the time, tt·TO years ago, at the ti~e that the refinery closed, a."' e f fo-rt ~; ould be o:aC.e by 115

~~arc!'!. 7, :978 Tc.pe ~io. 3.5 ~M - 3 c'R. CALLAN : government, it said, ~o keep the peopl~ o~t tllere infor.ned of what ~~as !lappening and also any Public 11orl~s project:; ar.d so on that could be carried out would be carried out in that area so that the people who lost their jobs could pick up sene slack and get some meaningful employment rather than the ad !lee employment that t!ley are c;etting no~•. c·T:"tat efforts are t~e govern~~nt ~a~:.ing to :1.elp them a:1d to ~::.ee!' them i.nfor.::.ed? The :,.on. Pre!:lier. PRE~ER HOOR.ES : As I keep telling the ~ember for Tri~ity {lort!l, :1r.

Speaker, every effort possii:Jle. '·'R. SPEAKER: The !'!.on. ~mber for Windsor - Bu~~ans. I have indicated that the original questioner tmuld have the final suppleme:ltary; that I recognize the ~on. me!:lber for ~<indsor - Buchans does not preclude obviously the hen. member from coming oack eo t!le topic. '!R. FLIGHT: !..:r. Speaker, •Nith you concurrence, t•it!l the Rouse's concurrence,I •11ill yield the supplementary to the :1on. member for ~aPoile. ~·!R. SPEAI".E'!.',: l!R. llE.ARY : The hen. member for LaPoile. I thank my herr. colleague, '·fr. Speaker.

The question that I have I would like to direct to the hen. the Premier, Sir. Could the han. the Premier explain to the House why his administration joined with th~ J~panese, Ataka, in putting up $300,000, of which $50,000 1•-'!.s donated by this !'rovince, to ta!ce legal action against Mr. Shaheen and his company for allegedly creaming off ~ney to go into other Shaheen companies? 116

l-!arch 7,1978 Tape 36 PK - 1 !JR. NEARY: If . I may just say so, ~r. Speaker, the Japs were the ones who put the oil refinery into bankruptcy in the first place, prematurely, I might add, so why would this administeration join with the enemies of the Province, the Japanese, in putting up $50,000, the Japanese putting up $250,000 to take legal action against Mr. Shaheen? :'1R. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER MOORES : Mr. Speaker, the amounts that the gentleman mentions- ;,hen one talks about the Japanese, I think the figure that they lost by having unpaid bills was over $350 million.

And if there was any chance of recouping any of that before they lost any more I can certainly understand their attitude of spending $250,000 to try to get some back. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, and I know I cannot debate, Sir, but the Japanese were the ones that put the oil refinery into bankruptcy. So why would the administration of which the hon. gentleman is the head join with the Japanese in taking legal action? And, Mr. Speaker, and why was not - if I can have the hon. Premier's attention for a moment - why was the hon.

Premier not aware that his administration had contributed $50,000 towards this lawsuit? MR. SPEAKER: MR. DOODY: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. If I may? There are two questions there; one infers that the hon. Premier was not aware of the fact that the Province of Newfoundland had joined in what some referred to as the money case, and some people irreverentl~ referred to it as the paper chase. It was a Cabinet decision, a government decision, and it was one that was arrived at after due deliberation and examination of the facts.

The facts are that although the Japanese are by far the largest losers under the under secured creditors list, the fact remains that there are hundreds of Newfoundland creditors unsecured in that particular bankruptcy as well. There are many small companies involved, unsecured, relatively 117

March 7, 1978 Tape 36 ~. DOODY: small amounts, $100,000, a couple of hundred thousand dollars. I do not have the list with me. It is certainly available. I am sure it is available to any member who wants to see it.

There are thousands - not thousands, ' but dozens, maybe hundreds of small businessmen and small individuals who are out of pocket and who have very little opportunity or very little chance of ever seeing any of that money because of the size of the bankruptcy and the size of the assets that may be realized by the receiver under a sale. \</hen the Province of Newfoundland was asked to join the unsecured creditors, on behalf of the unsecured creditors in taking action to try to recover this $50 million or $60 million in unaccounted funds, we looked at the situation and felt we owed it to the people in the Province who had money owed to them by that company to put the funds up to try to recover the money on their behalf.

Whether we will be successful IB-2 or not remains to be seen, ?ut we felt it was the duty of the Province on behalf of the citizens to try to recover that money and I certainly make no apologies for it, Sir. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Sir. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. NEARY: The response that the hon. gentleman gave me, Mr. Speaker, is just the opposite. It will work in reverse. Do I understand the hon. gentleman correctly, that the government have joined with the enemies of the creditors of this Province, the enemies?

The Japanese are the enemies of Newfoundland and the enemies of the creditors of this Province. How could - by the hon. ~linister of Finance and the Minister of Justice (Mr. Hickman) behind the Premier's back joining with Ataka - how could that help the creditors of this Province when they are the enemies of Newfoundland, the Japanese in this particular case? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. DOODY: Mr. Speaker, I do not know what the definition of •enemy• 118

)o!arch 7,1978 Tape 36 ~IR. DOODY: is in this particular case nor how the Japanese creditors can be referred to as the eneoies of the Province. They were cercainly the people who invested the most money in unsecured credit in ti:at particular opera t ion . !iR. NEARY: So what? ~- DOODY: And they certainly hav~ a ;>osition which they sought to protect. Row they can be called •he enemies oi tne ?rov~nce in this particular case, having invested over 3300 mill~on in an oper ation in the Province,is beyo nd my scope or imaginati on. Obviously the hon. member opposite can deiine 'enemy• in that parti cul3:­ context .

I . categorically deny, of course , that the ~inister of Finance and the :-tinister oi Justice (Xr. Hick:nan) went behind anybody's back to arrange this so rt of thing. As I said ea rlier, it was a Cabinet decision. It was arrived at by Cabinet afte r due deliberation by government, calculated, decided and done as a governm ent movement, a government motion, a government programme, a govern:n ent project. And I absolu tel y refute categorically any insinuation that this was done behind the Premier's back by the then Ministel' of Finance and the Minister of Justice or any other group . MR.

PREMIER: If I may add to that, Mr. Speaker, :1.:1.9 lB-3

::arc:t i, 197 3 PP..E!~ER :-!CORES: ~'R. SPEM':ER: PREl'IE!l_ ~~OOP.ES: Tape 37 if it is allm-red? Agreed? Agreed. I also would like to uneauivocabl;r deny that allegation. :'he fact that,as tl-.e '!inister of Transoortation and C:o=unications savs, it ••as an absolute goveTI!:nent decision.

I t~ir.k for one thi:1g, Sir, it is a!lly ~-=2.ir to ~oint out at this t:.:;e t!:a: the l:lan!~ruFtC? '"as caused - and there are no fingers heinf, pointed at all - ~v t~e ~ost unusual set of circumstances,<Vhich I am sure the l'on. member is a'•are of, at a time w-hen contracts '"'ere changed •·rith the OPEC countries =.nd the oil prices ~rent very high, and contracts that '"'ere in -place 1o1ith t~e Americ<!n customer had to stay at the level of when oil lvas about four dollars or five dollars a barrel; <vhen the r.anadian Government,- because of the oil shortage at that time there was no exnort of oil allowed by Canada - ttle"!'"e ,.ras a culmination of facts that "'ere very eli fficult for anyone~ ~-~r.

Shaheen or anybody else. It <vas just a most unfortunate series of events and without, as I say, condemning any one group or any one -person on why the refinery had the problems it had, the start up, I would suggest that at that time there w-ere mitigating circumstances which ~Vere quite unbelievable. ~!R. NEARY: ~rp, • SPEAKER : member. HR. :!EARY: ~r. Speaker, a supplementary. A final supplementary from the hon.

Sir, would the hon. the Premier ,,e good enou~h to enlighten the Rouse, especially myself, because maybe it is because I am so dense that I cannot get the message that the hon. the Premier •N'as trying to communicate to the House, but how will this lai·Tsuit in the United States Court help the creditors of this Province? uow can the creditors in Newfoundland get their money? Is not ~r. Shaheen the only man w-ho is on the hook for these creditors? Is he not the only ~entleman, his companies the only ones that can oay these·creditors?

Gltramar or anvbody else who tendered on that oil refinerT have no intention of doing anything for t'le local creditors in ~le,...foundland. 1.20

:~ arc~ ', 1 ~ 73 Tap e 37 :::c - " '!R. ~TEARY: Is that not the case? And if so, 1~hy is then the Shaheen proposal being ignored? ~r'<. SPEAKE?..: The han. "inister of Justice. o!r • !:peaker, it 1•TaS the ~on. t"Je Premier I puc t'le question to. -;:l:e t:!atter t hat ·•as rai sed ~v t'1e :,on. ~entlell!an, I thin!{ falls pri::-.aril~r un,:er the t>an~:r.mtc :r la•c t~at prevails in this Province.

Che Japanese and a lar~e nu~~er of '!eHfotmdlanders and others are ansecured creditors. ,\ netition in ':lan!~runtcv Has filed 1-lhich was confirmed '>y the ~. uoreme r.ourt of ::e1-rfotmdland and the r:larl:son ConDany Limited •·7ere aooointe-i !:rustees in '.Je.n l ~ruptcy. !-nd "hen a cor:1pany or nerson is anpoinced a trustQe in ':Janl!:ruptcy uncer the Ee.n!:runtcy .\ct of Canada, that cerso:1 has an a~solute o ':l li~ation to try and recover as much rr.oney as possi~le from the ban!~ rupt estate, 11hich monee• is distributed in accordance • . .-i th t'"te Sankruptcy law.

Firstly, it ~oes to the secured creditors and then it is divided on a pro rata basis between the unsecured creditors and the other thing is that the trustee in bankruntcy has an absolute obligation to make sure that every dollar that has ':leE-n soent curin g the operation of the bankrupt company is accounted for to sc~ w'lether or not there are any monies due and owing to the bankrupt estate, because if they are then IJhere it is beneficial to all unsecured creditors, in this case to both the Jaoanese and to the ~ewfoundland co~~anies and residents of '!eHfoundlanc\, is that if any money is recovered ther. it would '-.e after the payment o~ the secured creditors, distributed to the unsecured cre~itors on a pro rata basis.

So it '~ill be ~eneficial if they succeeri in recoverin~t, and I appreciate that - ~ lR • ~lEARY : l:R. HICJGWl : ?.ecovering 1vhat? !,'hat ara thev (inaud:!.ble) The action that has been taken is for t!1e - 1vell, there is an allegation, and I ~uess it is better not to tal!' about matters that are before the courts, but there are ~lle~ations ~efore t he courts concerning; the at'!ount of nonev~1Jhich obviously is rmite a 121

Tape 37 :c - 3 'lB.. HICI<i!A:l: substantial sum. If recovered. it will go into the hands of Clarkson, Gordon uho are the trustees. They then have to distribute it on a pro rata basis hearing in mind the Canadian "!lankruptcy Act as it applies to both the secured and unsecured creditors. \·as the '-ton. r:J.inister on tO.~ 1-Joard of directors of 'Cet·Tfoundland !'efinin!l: r;hen this l:'.oney l<as transferred? '!il .• HIC:'11AN: ~1R.. :!EARY : gentleman was. MR. HIC1(}!..AN: :-rn.. SPEAKER: ~To. rlell, I be!?, '70ur narc on; the han. I was not on it for years. The hon. member for Hindsor- TJuchans. :·'R.

TI.IGRT: ~fr. Speaker, I have a question :'or the :•inister of Health. Again, in view of the fact that there ~-ras no mention in the Throne Speech of the government's intention to ~ave any new hospital construction or hospital extensions this year, is that an indication that there will he no new hospital construction or extension this year? '!R. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. :m. H. CCLLINS: Xr. Speaker, those matters are al,~ays dealt with in the Budget Speech and when the Judget S~eech is hrou!l:ht down that answer will be given. ~1! .• FLIGHT: rffi. S PEA.KER: ~entleman from Port au Port. :'R. fl.

IGh"'T: A suoolemen tary, ?'r. Speaker. A sup?lementarv,followed by the hon. 0 f soecific concern to me, ''r. Sneaker, is the extension to the r:rand Falls Central :lewfoundland Bospital, and I would ask the minister if it is the government's intention to proceed with the extension of that hospital this year? ''R . SP F:AKEP.: :!:R. P.. COLL:C:S: ':he 'hon. ~'inister of Health. "r. Sneaker, these rratters are alvays dealt ~-rith, have ab;avs been~ are nm' and hopefully ab;ays ~~ill be dealt 1-1ith in the 3uc!get S?eech, not in t3:J.e Throne Sneech. 122

~!arch 7, 1978 Tape :-lo. 38 A supplenentary. !!R. NEARY: The_ hon. olinister of Heall:h in ony presence a year or so ago indicated to a committee from Port aux Basques that the new hospital for Channel - Port aux Basques was in th~ top th~ee, ratad top priority. Could the minister indicate if construction on that hos!;lital '"ill start this year'? : ~. SPE.'.KE.R: The ':-ton. :Iinister cf Healt:-t. ~ !R. !I. COLLIXS ~ :rr.

Speaker, I can only give the s=e answer which I just gave to the hon. gentleman's friend and that is that those decisions will be made ~~own when the ~udget is brought down in the people's House. ORDERS OF THE DAY: :!otion 1. ~otion, the hon. the Minister of Justice to introduce a bill, ''An Act Respecting The Execution Of Releases ;Jf ::ortgage By Persons w'110 Are :-lot Resident In The Province," carried. - On motion. Bill No. 2, read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. l !R. III Cl<HA.'l ; ~lotion 2.

Hotion, the hon. the ~!inister of Justice to introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting The Holding Of Property In The Province ~y The Newfoundland And Labrador Command And Branches Of The Royal Canadian Legion," (No. 3), carried. On motion, Bill No. 3, read a first time, ordered read a second tice on tomorrow. :lotion 3. :lotion, the hen. the t!inister of Justice to introduce a bill, "An Act To Empower The St. John's !lunicipal Coun~il To Raise A Loan For !lunicipal Purposes ty The Issue Of Bonds," (No. 4), carried. On motion, 3ill :'o. 4, read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. :rn..

HICJQ!A..'I; :lotion 4. 1.23

!fare:. 7, 19·78 Tape :\o. 38 ~lo tion , the ho:l . the :liniste r or Justice ::o introduce a bill, ''An Act: To Amend The Provinc:.al Court: Act !o ~!ake Use Of The Services Of !tet:ired Hagistrates," (No . 6), carried. On motion, Bill No. 6, read a firs~ ::ime, ordered read a second til::e on t.ocorrm•. :~ocicn 5. ::ot.i on . the i1on. t::le :~"liSter of t;onsu:ner A£!:airs and Envi ronment to incrodcce a bill, "An Act :tespectin~ :>nfa·ir And Uncons cionable Trade Practices, " ('io. 13), car ried .

On :notion, oill :o~ o. 13, reac! a first ti:ue, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. ~!otion 6 . :iocion, the :ton. :-tiaist:e r o~ ~:u n icipal Af:ai rs And. :iousing to intro duce a bill, "

An Act To Amend i:h.e 3t. John's lioc.si!lg Corporation Act, " (no. 14), carried. On cotion, Bill No . 14, re~d a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Motion 7. :·!otion, t:he hon. :·liais ter oi J1.:s tice co int:-o<iuce a bill, "An Act To :\.!lle.nd T!le Commissioners For Oaths Act," (:-lo. ll) , carried. 124

March 7, 1978. Tape 39, Pagel -- apb On motion, bill No.ll read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Motion, the han. the Minister of Justice to introduce a bill, "An Act To Anlend The Industrial Standards Act." Carried. (Bill No.8}. On motion, bill No. 8 read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Motion, the han. Minister the Minister of Justice to introduce a bill, "An Act To Anlend The Companies Act," Carried. (Bill No.7) . On motion, bill No. 7 read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the han. the Minister of Justice to introduce a bill, "An Act To Authorize An Impost Upon Certain Mineral Holdings In The Province," Carried. (Bill No.5) On motion, bill no. 5 read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow. MR. HICKMAN: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: Order 1. Order 1, the Address in Reply. The hon. member for LaPoile. Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear! I thank my han. colleagues for their enthusiastic support. Mr. Speaker, first of all I want to join with the other hon. members in expressing a very warm welcome to our new leader,the han. member for Twillingate (Mr.

W.N.Rowe), who is sitting in this House not for the first time, I might say, but for the fourth time,I believe it is. MR. W.N.ROWE: Yes. MR. NEARY: The fourth time the han. gentleman has been elected, Mr. Speaker, this time by the 1.25

March 7, - 1978, Tape 39, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: good people of Twillingate district. Ne are so happy. Sir, to see the hen. gentleman able to take his seat in the hen. House so soon after being elected Leader of the Liberal Party, Sir. My hen. friend yesterday, Sir, in his few remarks on opening day related to the Throne Speech, the A~dre~s in Reply, handled himself a~ceptionally well, Sir. Exceptionally well! AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: I would say, Sir, that the future of the Liberal Party is in excellent hands. SOME HON·. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

NEARY: My hen. friend indicated yesterday in this hen. House that the Liberal Party is not going to stand any longer for a blank cheque government, that we stand for a strong Libera ·l government dedicated in the true Liberal tradition of service to the masses of the people. And that was the message that I got from my hen. friend yesterday. My han. friend was probably too modest to say it, Sir, but we intend to lay out a policy and a platform over the next few weeks and few months that will involve all the people of this Province, the workers, the businessmen, the professions.

We intend to get all the people involved to try and help work out the destinies of not only the Province, but of their own families. And my han. friend is going to be the inspiration through _which this will be done. The Liberal Party in the past, Mr. Speaker, worked hard for the people of this Province. But the past, Sir, is just merely an ins~gnificant indication of what we intend to do in the future. It is a foretaste, Sir, of what we intend to 126

t-l.arch 7 , 19 78, Tape 39, Page 3 -- . apb make happen in this Province as a Liberal Party for the people of this PrQvince, Sir, under the leadership of my hon. friend. I suppose, Mr. Speaker; you could say that we have a new leader, a new policy and a new flag.· And under the leadership of my hon. colleague, Sir, I •11ould say that there are glorious .days ahead for the Liberal Party and for Newfoundland. My hon. friend is joined, I believe, for the first time by my hen. colleague to my right, the member for St, John's West (Dr.

Kitchen), another humble, and shy, and modest gentleman who probably would be too modest to blow his own horn. But, Mr. Speaker, I am going to blow it for him. That ho.n. gentleman up to now has played a major

part in the public life of this Province. MR. W.N.ROWE: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: But we have not seen 127

:rarch 7, 1978 :rn.. :lEARY: ---- anything yet. It is the first op~ortunity I i:>elieve that the han. gentleman has had to ecce in on the floor of this han. :louse. lie have seen the han. gentleman in action outside of the Rouse of Assembly. And my hen. friend sitting opposite no doubt are aware of the qualifications and the capaoilities and the ability of the han. gentleman. And since the han. gentl~:llan ':>ec=e a :necber of the Liberal caucus 2.nd ~mn 1 I believe for the first ::ime in rec:ent years.an elect:ion in a.."l. urban centre, in a St.

John's district in recent years, Slr, since the han. gentleman managed to win that election in St.

John's 'Jest. which was fiercely contested, the han. gentle~an has proven that he really does -have the interests of the people of this Province at heart and spent the last several weeks, and orobably mont:1s, and will in the future '.¥hen the hearings resume before the Public Utilities Board. :·ly han. friend was down there morning, afternoon and-I do not believe they sat at night, did they? - but if they had sat at night my han. friend - yes, one night_ and my han. friend was there maintaining a continuous vigilence over the evidence that was being presented in connection with the recent application by :i'ewfoundland Hydro in asking for a forty per cent increase in electrical rates in this Province. ~ly han. friend was responsible for bringing out some very, very interesting facts and so~e interesting information in connection with that: hearing, Sir, that startled the whole Province.

And I will deal with the request for an increase by ~ewfoundland ~ydro in more depth but at the moment I am heaping great praise on my han. friend for doing such a magnificent job on behalf of the ordinary people of this Province. That information, Hr. Speaker, would not have seen the light of day had it not been for my han. friend,and cy han. friend is due the congratulations, not only of members of this side of the House, but members on the opposite side. And I have to say 128

:rarch 7, 1978 Tape ~ro. 40 2 in all fairness that the 8ember for St. John's ~orth (Nr. J. Carter) also spent a fair amount o.f .ti.J:J.e do~o-n at these hearings, not quite as much as my han. friend, t.."le member for St. John's West (Dr. Kitchen).

The only thing that I · can say, Sir, is that what I have seen ot the han. gentleman so far is most encouraging, very heart 1vaming indeed, to see an hor.. member for a change --..:ho is doing the job for :.;hich ::e \<Tas elected.. ::y hon. friend coo, Sir, deserves ancther word of congratulations on being elected President of the ~iberal Party of Newfoundland and Labrador. I am sure that we will hear mare from the hen. gentleman in this capacity in the future. And I would also like, while I am on this particular note, Sir, to express a welcome back to the hon. member for Ferryland district (:.tr. C. Power}.

This is the second trip the hon. gentleman has made back to this hen. House. . ~'1 HON. :rnSER: lfaybe the last • Somebody behind me says it may be the last one. Well,the only thing that I can say to that, Sir, and I do not with to interject a sour note early in my speech,but if the hon. gentleman makes very many more statements like he made yesterday about the medical clinic on the Southern Shore in Ferryland district, it may indeed be his last trip. AN liON. ~fEl~ER: Hear!

Hear! ~lR. m':ARY: The hen. gentleman, Sir, yesterday got up in moving the Address-in-Reply, mavin~ that a committee be appointed to draf ·t the Address-in-Reply, the hon. gentleman made a statement praising the administration for a medical clinic for the Southern Shore when my hon. friend knows that: that is not so, that is a fallacy. It is not true. :·!R. POlTER: Mr. Speaker, on a point of personal privilege, and I tha:lk the speaker for his kind remarks but I have a copy of my address that I gave yesterday and ~ansard will bear me out that 129

:!arc.'l 7, 1978 Tape ::o. uO :~l - 3 :!R. ?0!-IE::t: I ~id not say a fallacy , I said ou: sovernme~t. ~ governmen t , assisted local businessmen in building a cli~ic to solve a 10ecical problem in our end of the district. Hansard ~11 bea: that out. That is exac:.ly :Jhat I sai.d. That is exactly :Jhnt happened. I did no t say that gove~ent put in S 2 ~ 0,J0 0 or more :.n a ouildi~ g. !hank you. 1.30

::.arcil 7, 197 o J.:.J. - ..i.. .m .. SP[.\..i.~KL.JR, COLLINS): The i1on. Leader of the Opposition. ,•ir. Spe;:;.kt:r, on c. ~oinc of orrier. Tile ''on. mo=~aber is new to t.le uouse a.n<l nobody ;1isi1.es co come ciow-u on ·•.illl bard. T.1e poiai: just macie by tne ••on. memoer, ~lr. Speaker, was obviously. a uifference of opiiJ.ion uetweeu two •lOn. memi.lers .Ar,d it is .;. illiS:J~e of I t.o.~eraiore - .. :y piJin~ oi or<..er, Sir, is t . .at it: is noc a point of iJersonal privilege.

Lc is a mere uifference of opL1iou. anoi ::~.amoers snoulu be cautioneu. ~lot: to resort to persoc.al privile 0 e in sucn circumstances. :;..,, SP:t;di.(L.,(0R. COLLI:-IS): \lruer please! T .Ll.~; llon. t~le Louse LL!a<.ier. :lr. Speaker, I think i~ goes sligntly furt:;J.<:r tn;J.n a difference of opinion. Jut I understa."l.cJ. tile non. Jent:leman from Ferrylauri was tryinJ,as he l~s an ooligation to do, to correct any misstatement ti1at is attributed to him.

Argument - oy all means; Difference of :JF::.nion- by all meaus,i.lut ti1e i1on. gentleman froo. ~·erryldlla vas silllply quoting from hansaru c:1e facts, tne colci .1ard facts a.ad \·laute<.l tne recor.:~ to be straight: anti tnat is Liiffer~:nt frow. a uifference of opiniou,I cio submit. .lie. SPL"W.~~(llR. COL.LidS): Order, please! !-iatters of misrepresentation uo not come into tae area of privile~;e or inueed oruer.

T:~<, •lOn. w.e;:uoer certaialy nas evecy ri,;i1t to asK anotner 1~ember to yiel<.l so tnat ;,.; w.ay .aake a st:atement in te=s of clarifying a point anu i£ sucn a illeLlwer uoes acceue to tnat request naturally t.•e Ci~ir would reco;;niz" tne member's right to take the floor. But I cio not think one .1eeas to rule 11ere on privilege or order. The non. me~ber for LaPoile. ~·.u.~. S • .A. ~~£..:~Y: :rr. Speaker, let r...e for tne ilene£ it of ce:nb.,rs of t,l., 13:1

:iarcu 7. 197 e Tape .;o. 41 Jd - .. .·!R, S.A. ;~URY: iiouse say to my ••O•l· friend that I do not care waat statement it wa" t.ut he :;1<1de. He said that m.s gover=ent - his goverr.men-:, not the Queen's Gover=ent,'my government'the non. ;,;eutleman said. i:Ie thanked them for assisting ti1e businessmen on the Sout:•ern S~ore - Am ' I quotir:.g ti1e non. gentle.aau correctly? - thanking his goverr.ment for •lel?iu::; :::1e businessw.en on tile So-uthen1 Snore set -up .::1i.o i:!eclical clinic.. Is tl1.at correct? ~d.sically t.'i..:i.t i.:S ~.;~w.t t~.lc ~1011 • .;er .. c.:.e:~an saiU.

Ihe hou. ~entleiUC:.:l i::; sayir.&, Y~s, ci1at is so. ;..·.;11 now, Sir, uo .1on. memiJers know the .,i,;;tory of how tnat medical clinic got clown on tue Soutileru Si1ore tuat the •lOU. :!,e.ntleman is tnanking nis administration, i1is goveruLlent fur >JUtting t~ere? \~ell, Sir, it starteu out, :1r. Speaker, it started out as ..1 ;;roup of volunteers, a representative group .,i1o got toget.ler do~>. .. n Oil ti";e Soutnern Sl;ore to come to t•le ~over.-.meat to ask the gover:1rJcnt to ouila. a .-..eclical clinic on tne Soutnern Sl1ore in ti1e district of Ferryland.

Ana at one stage tne ;;;roup of volunteers even convinced the government, the dinister of Public Works,I believe it was,to allocate a piece of land to have the clinic built on aud tnat was done. Ana later, because of tne location or ti1e size of c:1e land ,I ti1ir.k it was,or gettin;,; access to tne land the Jroup ask to uave the govermue.lt witn.J.raw tile piece of land. This was supposed to be a govermaent clinic but tneo the little group of volunteers tnat were so dedicated to tae people on the Southern Shore discovered t11e rnilci1 cow.

They Jiscoverea til.at why snould we let the goven1ment builJ. t•lis ~linic? l;hy do we noc build it ourselves and tilen ti1ey delegat"U. wy ;,on. friend to go to nis colleagues or his former colleagues, because my hon. friend was out: at t11at particular tiw.e to see if they could ;;et some ;,;overnment contracts· for that medical clinic which is •aore tnan a tueciica..l clinic. It is c1. si1opping centre. It is a plaza.

Tl1ere is ;;oing to be doctors' o.ffices in there and a drug store and a few other stores but in order to get it tnere they ha..l to get contracts from t1le ;;overnment and these contracts were awaracci, ~·lr. Spe:ak.ar. wi:iJ.out calling public tencier. I ~now a fe~v 132

.iarcn 7 , 1:'178 ·.rape ~ !o. 41 .; ~1 - 3 ::R.. S. A. :\::ARY: ill.or e ~.mtlalllen uown on tiloa Soutll <!rn Si1ore t..lat ~;oul::. ilave been gla<i to ge t a contra ct frolil t he Depar t:Iilenc of. Health . ~y i:or. . friend, t~e :1:i:niscer of l! eal t~ , lihoul<i ~ec up anC: explain why a cont rac t '-'as slippe<i uua erneat: il the cable co cilis little sroup for t ile ·public llealtu nur s.e. ::r. Sp .. a;;.ar , .:.\e ;\ou . teu:.lemau is so inCO!'u?etent '-:Jat •4<! uoes .10: :-al\l \.1 ·<1/'-tGt- ~oe::; on Ulletcraecit.l t ,t.:: ca.

Ole ..m.a c.ao t: .)..S...> :,c;:e:t ~ rvven ever t ile last t.'NO or t.u;ee y..:.ars. ,;c ~ 1av~ seeo ~ ; UiC in coruH:ctio n witu .:he waterford Hospital, <:xon nouse , t he Fisheries Departm ent. For estr y . So you see , .tr. Speake r, all I a... trjing co uo is co e;qJ.i.OCle t:.at :~y e n , cnat false.tood that tne hon . gen tleman left ·..:icb t his r:ous<! yescer aay - cnauking the government . \~l1<1 t was c.ne non. :r;entleman : n.mk~.$ his governluent f or? t.e -'<!S ;:tank~ .us guv4:!rnm~onc for s:.vi.J.1:; con crac::s ,;o c.1is little 6roup of private .::itizen.i wib1out calli!!& ?Uolic tende rs.

T.~ac i;; . ..,ha.: tne ilon . gent l emlu.l ;.ras c:::m l..ing a s he says, ": t; a w:linistratiCil, ~ay .;overnmen t." :133

March 7, 1978 Tape 42 IB-1 MR. NEARY: I thought it was the Queen's Government and the Moores Administration. That is· how the clinic got down on the Southern Shore. And there is not one group, Sir, in this Province or down on the Southern Shore that would not give their right arm to be able to build that clinic under the same circumstances. My hon. friend is too dangerously close to that situation. The last time I went to the Registry Office to check the shareholders of that company they were not registered. I do not know if they ·have been registered yet or not.

If they have not I will check it before the session is too far advanced. My hon. friend is too close to the situation. And if I were my han. friend I would not even leave the appearance of being in a conflict of interest situation. So I hope my hon. friend does not get up boasting about "my government" for helping a group of citizens on the Southern Shore to build a·medical clinic. MR. POWER: If the hon. member will yield I will clarify a few points that he is obviously very much mistaken about. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my han. friend will have - MR. POWER: Will the member yield? MR.

NEARY: My han. friend will have ample opportunity, Sir - MR . POWER: That is what I thought. MR. NEARY: - in this session of the House to straighten out the controversial medical clinic on the Southern Shore. I have laid out the facts as I know them, Sir, and as I believe to be correct. My hon. friend cannot deny the fact that it started out - and the people,by the way, Mr.

Speaker, the people on the Southern Shore still believe that that is a government medical clinic, that this group of volunteers that went around and asked for support from the people, the backing from the people to build the medical clinic, the people are still under the apprehension that that is a government medical clinic. And my hon. friend is basking in the glory, taking all the credit MR. POWER: If I can clarify the point, I can save you an awful lot of time. 1.34

March 7, 1978 Tape 42 :lR. ~jEA.RY: ~ taking all the credit for it, Sir, when in actual fact the people after - I hope the word will go out of this House today that that is private enterprise. I have nothing against private enterprise, building a medical clinic or a shopping compl~~. I am all for .it. But, Mr.

Speaker; remember we have a Public Tendering Act-in this Province and instead of doling out contracts, my han. friend going around on behalf of this group to his colleagues suggesting they have a contract for the public health and social services and this and that and the other thing, that public tenders should be called, Sir. So in welcoming the han. gentleman back to the House I hope the han. gentleman will pay attention to the few words of advice that I have given to him. MR. POWER: I have a bright future in front of me. MR. NEARY: Well the han. gentleman may indeed have a bright future. MR. W.

ROWE: We do not want to see it nipped in the bud. MR. NEARY: That is what I am trying to tell the han. gentleman~ I would not want to see it nipped in the bud. I was one of the first when I was down where my hon. friend is now, down inside the rail there when my han. friend made his maiden speech in this han. House,to get up and heap great praise and congratulations on the han. member for Ferryland (Mr. Power) for making such an excellent - it was one of the best maiden speeches that I had ever heard made in this hon. House. So I have a vested interest in the gentleman.

After praising him up I would not want to see the han. gentleman go down the drain. NR. W. ROtoffi: He has your best interests at heart. MR. NEARY: And so the han. gentleman should not get sloppy about these matters and level with the people. That is the only way the han. gentleman will stay in politics. And certainly there has been 135 IB-2

March 7, 1978 Ta pe 42 MR. !-."'EARY: no levelling with the people on the Southern Shore in Ferryland district over that medical clinic. I hope - Mr. Speaker, I tell you one thing that we may as well face in this bon. House, that you have got a media in this Province, Sir, who,a lot of them,e.re operating on a shoestring. We come into this House from three to six in the afternoon and you can only expect to get about a twenty second tape on television in the evening. MR. MORGAN: Those with a small budget do the best job,though. MR. NEARY: The ones with the small budget operating on the shoestring, maybe they do.

MR. MORGAN: They do t·he best job. ~!!l . NEARY : Well maybe they do. My bon. friend has had some experience with the CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation,in rallying to the defence of the bon . the Premier and getting a young lady fir.ed at the CBC. I will deal with that mat.ter in due course. I will deal with that in due course, Sir, muzzling the press!

And you talk about But anyway, Sir, what I am getting at is this, that it may seem like a very insignificant point and the media may not even see fit to report the fact that that medical clinic down on the Southern Shore that started out with a group of volunteers now turned into private enterprise was not built by this administration, by this government. My hon. friend is nodding that is so.

But, Sir, it would not have been built if my bon. friend had not been able to influence and his group, influence some of his colleagues, some of the ministers, to give a contract, a government contract, to rent space in that building. 136 IB-3

Tane 43 YFt. ?fE .. \ BY : And that <!as done witr.out calling public tenders. ''ow, 1-'r. Speaker, is there anvbodv else I ~-..ave to ~-relcome to the l'ouse? SO":: HC~l. ~~2'3E!<S : :·1'.:,''<-Y: Oh, oh! I certa:_:'lly v . .-ant ta join, Si:-, ... ~ith t~e hon. the Premier <<ho rose in ~is nlace to cay to con>:raculc>.ce E-rother Gerald :'c!!ugh, •.rho uas recently elected as Suoerior r.eneral of the •-rorld-Hic!e Con:?regation of Christian Rrothers. "·rather vc!'ugh ~-ras elected at the ~enty-fifth r.eneral

Chapter of the Con~regation in ~o~e. Italy. 1\rother :lc!{us::h, Sir, <·ras born in Jerseys ide, Placentia not too far fror.t t.rhere my honourable spouse tv as born, the adjoining comtr.Unity as ~ matter of fact. ·~~, honourable spouse uas born in "'resh,·Jater and llrother :-~cHufh ••as born in Jerseyside. T"\ov:-1. in th~ Placentia area - I suppose every co=unity in :1e~-rfoundland can clai!:'. the sar.>e thing - they say it is the home of saints and scholars. :-lel], Sir, ~is a)''JOint­ ment certainly is a signal honour to this Province.

It is thP- first ?leHfoundlander, and the first Canadian, 'Jy the way, ever electec'. as Superior r.eneral of the w-orld-•;ide r.on!':regation of r:hristian 3rotl"crs. ~r.

Speaker, I am not quite sure if the hon. the Premier incJicated the responsibility that this gentleman t.rill have, but just in case I missed tvhat t':l.e hon. the Premier said let me say that his appoint:r.ent s;ives ~im the responsibility of four orovinces in .\us tralia, several ?rotrinces - I helieve all the nrovinces of Canada, a nurnher of orovinces in England, India, Ireland, my honourable friend's home, t'·'O nrovinces in ~!eH Zealand, a couple of !)rovinces in South Africa, and t~e Fnited States of -'-rneric~. ~-:hat a responsibility for a :·rewfouncllander, Yr.

Speaker! .\nd that is the kind of thing that the hon. the Prel!lier should be nlayin~ up 1-1hen he goes a~out t~e world on these great binges that he has been on for the last several t·reeks. '·/hen •rou !·rant to show the world that ~Te~-rfoundla!'ders are not barbarians~trhy not use the exar.mle of Srother :1c?ugh, t4ho is the boss of all tlte Chris ti~m :'rothers i::t all 1.37

:·arch 7, 197~ 'l'ape ~3 O"C - 2 cl!l •• ~IT~<\.RY: these !!reat countries that I just mentioned? I might say, ''r. Speaker, that Brother ~'cFugh has a brother, Father !tichard '~c:Ruph, •.Jho is a great: friend of ll'ine - "the ~arish. ryriest over on Bell Island, a «:reat !:'an 11ho is doing a ::~asmific:ent job- not exac:tlv, I do ~ot believe. in love Hith. 0::'' loon. friend, :10t exactly. ~·-ell, i:: "auld not ·Je fair for :r.e to sav that. ~!l' . . DOODY: disillusioned. "e used to b e one time t~oug'"t - {i:1auci i.':> le) Yes, co'!!!Oletel•r disillusioned.

But a fine, upstanding Ye~·Tfoundlander, Sir, rloing a magnificent job over on Bell Island under very difficult circumstances. c!r. Soeaker, talking about outstanding c!elvfoundlanders, this Christmas past I r.et a ~entleman bv the name of Gwen ~yer. I believe he is a friend of my hen. colleague, the Leader of the Opposition. I do not l~no~T !f anybociy else in this hon. House ever met a gentleman by _ the name of r-wen Dyer. '·lell, C1ven nyer is the son of 'lr. George Dver, "ho at one time ••as Depnty ~'inister of Labour.

I thin)~ from ('onfederation ripht up to 19E3 ~·1 r. tieor~e Dyer was T)eputy Hinister of Labour. Hell, Gwen Dyer is George Dyer's son, and •rr. liwen Dyer is a 1ournalist, he is stationed in London, England. And this !'ewfoundlander, "fr. s.,eaker, I•Trites for 15') neHspapers throughout the world, '"'rites articles on international affairs throughout the worln - Gwen !)yer, a ''ewfoundlander, fro!:\ St. John's, ~1 el·tfoundland. And the reason I raise this matter, ~!r.

Speaker, is this, that the han. rremier nm.; is helti~~ a!->ont t~'e ~~orld, going off on these trips, hiring pub lie: relations firns at great expense to the taxpayers of this Province on the pro seal campaign. And I say, God bless him, we are all for it. It ~·1as the ~~rang thing to do, it "<.•as poor j uc!gernent on t"te ?remier',; nart. :!e should 'lave taken the advice of the "inister of "isheries that was given in chis ;louse a vear or so a~o - last vear, I believe it <•as. 138

!arch 7 . !97 ~ Tape 4 3 ~lell , I am not sure it ·"as myself or one of r.ty coll eagues as!-:ed the ~·inist er of Fisheri es and as l, e~ the Precier, "mtat are you ~in~ to do about r.reen pea ce and t!'!is. cracl: po t , !lrian l)a•Ties? " ~nci. t~e answ er reli 1dous!·1 from t7:e other ccnf '!:ontati.on,' t~2 ::iniste r o f ~i s !1 eri.es told ~s cia v ::-~ anc 139 , .. ~ v - .. ,

~·iarcn 7, 197 8 Tapt::. J.ro. 4~ L·l - l all of a sucicien c,1ey r-ev.:rseu tneir- strategy anti they uecideci tnen that the thing to do was to ta~e on Brian Davies anci _;reenpeace Llead. on. On iii.:> own ;;rounds t.1ey set the stage. They gave 3rian Davies a forum w;1ereby i1e coulu get all ti1e public:;.ty he w-anted. It was ratiu•r unfortun;J.te. As a i-lewfoundlancier ;: was <.ieeply ~1urt:. over it anu ti1e situation iHs:t:ad o~ iraproving ."..::....:; ,;otten worse throug~1out: t~1c '-¥orlci. It is uufart~nal:e. It w·as i.Joor s::rw.tet;y. T:1.eir be...:.rts ·~·er: in C~1e rigat: plc:ce. .-:R.

S.A. liEARY: Their nearts were ll1 t~1e ri~LlC place. 'ihe.y r.1eanc uell. Ti1ey spent 11undreds of thousa."1ds of dollars ac it buc c:1e: t.1in;,; ild.s been a complete and utter flop. And .. very time ~ir. Jrian ud.vie.s :1as walkeci away a winner.

It would iJ.ave L>een far becter-, :;r. $pea;.;;er-, - I •.1ant to ;;et back to Gwen Dyer - it woulc..i 11ave been far better- for CLliS aaministration uad tney consul tea with a gentleman, a j ouru .. lisc who is ••ell-known i.1 tha international "'orlu, wno writes for Liu uewspapers, who is a ::ie\lfoundlander, w.1o undarsta:J.ds the psyci1olog;; of Newfouncilauciers and who understanJ:; the situation in :le11fou:.1.C:lc.nG.1 it would have been far bett~r had they contacted a man like him an'-' got his advice, A young man - Ca."1 you i~&ine? •1araly believe that a young :•ewfounalancier froc St.

Jo<m's is off in Englaml for the past ,;even years and he i.:> only - what?-about thirty-odd now? .-L.>., W.:i. ROWE: Thirty to tnirty-five. ••JR. S.A. NEARY: He is less than thir-ty-five years of age rigi1t nol¥ 1 writing for 150 newspapers throughout the worlci ami I am sure che <:on. gentleman would i1ave given che administrat:ion s.:>;:ae good advice if ti1ey \vere willing to cai<e it~an<i appare<ltly tney ar-e not. They do not seem ever to be willing to take acivice, ti1is hon. crowd.

The diui:>ter of Fisheries uow is back in his seat and the :1on. minister call confirm waat I am saying: wnen a question was put to tae i1on. minister from ti1is si<.ie of tile House last year about ti1e Gr-eenpeace anu tne 3ria.n Davies · ~oiilgs on the lilinister said, "~Je are ~oin,:; to ignore hi::u.. 11 Is ~.Ll::.t 140

.·larcn 7, 19713 Tape :;o. 44 J~l ,, '- :·ill.. A, J. ~!URPliY: It: dici not ;,;o 0ver well wit:i1 the Opposition. ;Jl:{, S.A. :lEARY: I be5 your pardon, :~. Speaker. I am putting a question straight to the minister now, Diu the nin:ister not: say ti~t ais administration was 30ing to ibnore 3rian D&vies and Gree~~eace. Tile ;llln. Premier said it and t.l.: 110n. minister said it. :ie.il t;1en,;;-,ly uid t.i~ J.10n.

Premier c~1an~:;e ~lis strategy g,nc. -~~= 'C..:J.l~.:::c. ll~to i~ ~y c~H~ iu Loouon wno saiJ. after tne PR firm spent several we.e~s on t.l.is car..pagain tnere was not encugn left fer the boo~e party t.uq :1.:!ci pl=:1eu anu t:.le Premier in a suite tn...t · .• ·as costin;;; •lOW o.uc.1? '?lu0.l)J a u.ay. Pcuucis. :~o, ~160, that is net pounds. Surely it could uot be l.:lu pcuuds a uay. Well, tms it lou pounas or $loU.0u? Anyway it •.;as ti1e most posh, tu.: .:lOSt luxurious :.otel roc:.:~ that tile hen. :o;entleman could fii.d in London in England anc. the Premier was really roughing it.

Tnere was no doub~:: c.bout that, rea.lly roughin;; it. So it is tragic, Sir. It is unfortunate, It :is a S•l<illle and I would be tne first: r.c t: to - I am not ccnciemni."ld; C-le iwr.. Pre.;:1ier. Tne effort was tnere. The i1eart wa::; i11 tile r:ig.1t place Lut l.t t:as a colo~sal blunder and it: was Dav:ies wuo walked away every time- ~ winner cw.Cl not t•1e !l<:Ople of tn:is Province. .ma then taking off c,u. I.:leui~ so ti1ey coulCl pump the propaganda back :1oille, try in;; to ma~e a l:itcle pol:itic:; t;'J.~ uf it.

You cia uot llave t.o convert .~cwfounUla.uU..;rs.. -.~e d.re t~1e co>.verted. <lhat: ~ocd would t:1e tueaia <io at public expense ever i.a Louu.ou or Paris or G-.rmany? W"nat: ::;ood except t>Uiap a little propaganda 14:1

.!arc.'l 7, 19 78 Tape ;~o. 45 N'~[ - 1 j:.uckily they \vere objective. HR. NEARY: ----·- ~est of them were objective. Some I think have been carr~ed away, swept off their feet. ~ot so objective now, they have got to get their little darts in every chance about the Opposition being negative, about our Leader being negative, about myself being negative.

Oh we are negative on everything now since they had !:heir little trip and c:ere wir.ed and dined. :lot all of thec: The Evening Tele:;r= ::-efused to accept the political patronage and so did the CJC refuse to accept any political patronage and I do not know how many others in connection with this trip. I hope I will not be accused of saying that all the media are now not objective. I said one or two. :·!R. W. N. ROl-lE: Host of them were. lffi.. NEARY: l';ost of them are still objective and have proven . since they were wined and dined by the han. gentleman, hosted by the han.

Premier on behalf of the taxpayers of this Province, are still objective,fortunately. But I hope, ~[r. Speaker, I would like to see the day in this Province when not one newsman of any media will accept a tr~p from the government. I think it is wrong, it is immoral and they should not do it. They should not be tr~pping around at the expense - and Hr.

Speaker, I know especially in the middle of the \•linter when the weather gets bad and it is cold and wet and miserab]e and drear; and it is probably the only way that most of them will see the world, but I hope the day will come, Sir, when we can find some other way, that we can find some other way to do it, to get these people off on their trips without being taken off on political jaunts by the han. the Premier. l1r.

Speaker, I have advocated outside of this House and I am going to say now inside of this House, that I believe that money would have been better spent had it bee• put into the establishment of an industry in this Pro~nce to process the skins and the 142

:!arch 7, 1978 Tape :·ro. 45 :f:·! - 2 :m.. NE.-\RY: meat and the products of the sealers tJho out there now risking life and limb at very little income, a mere pittance, that it would have been far ~etter, Sir, if the hen. the Premier and the administratian had looked into the feasibility and the possibility of setting up a real sealing industry in this Province. And I know the hen. the Premier ca~ ]et up 710W and say now, "11ell 1hindsight is foresight," you K:now. I SU!J:>Cse you could say the same thing abcut the Upper Churchill,could you not?

You know~they can say, "Oh you can look ~ad~ at it now, sure we made a mistake but our hearts were in the right place. Give us credit. II ~·7ell, we give them all the credit. But it is the same principle is it not? The same one. :·!R. ~TEARY: :::le same, hindsight is foresight. If they had their time back they ~vould have never done it. They ~~ould have taken the money and followed my advice and the advice of my party. :-rr. Speaker, I want to say to this hen.

House in the presence of my Leader, that if and when the people of this Province elect us as the government that one of the top priorities of the Liberal Party, of the Li~eral Administration will be to ~stablish a real sealing industry in this Province, whereby the skins tdll be processed in }lewfoundland, tvhereby the fur coats, the hand bags, I the mitten~, the mukluks, the - ~;hat else? The hats.

The hats, all the products will be m~~ufactured in :'ewfoundland and identified with ~!ewfound!.and and t>herever c:1ey are l:larketed or exported in the world they will be identified ~;ich ~ewfo~~dland without any shame. That would have been the thing to do, Sir. llR. 11. :L RO\JE: That is right 1 boy. :1R. NEARY: ------ Or go off and zero in on the furriers and the people ~;ho market the product instead of resorting to the emotional appeal that the hen. Premier must have known from his experience in public life 143

:·!arch 7, 1973 Tape ::<o. 45 : T.. :lEARY : ----- that you could not win. How, ~·[r. Speaker, how can you take - let me see, let me take a ~mber how can you take the hon. member for St. John's Centre 0Ir. :rurphy) and put him up against Hary Tyler Hoore? I would not mind, not as long as it ~•as \!ary Tyler !!core. so:~~ :iON. ~~~rnEP..S: iiear, hear~ 144

:larch 7, 1973 Tape 46 i)',l - 1 r·!R. NEARY: I understand, :lr. Speaker, that the - I understand that all the movie stars and actresses i n H o 11 yw o o d a r e a g a i n s t the s e a 1 f i s her y and a 11 · I am saying is if r·1ary Tyler :loore is appearing and my boner- a b 1 e f r i en d i s a o !J e a r i n g o n t h e s am e o l a. t f o r !1 , \·ill o i s ' go i n g to come away ~he winner? :; i1 o i s ? o i n '1 to co r:1 e c ::1 t on top? ~ho is going to come out on ::a r' ~lr. Speaker, I ask. 1·! R • r·1U R P H Y : That would be a ~um question.

SOtiE HON. i1E:13ERS: Oh, f'Jh! ;1R. \-i.tl RO.~E: Get on another topic, Steve. :lr. Speaker, it is a very ver:; serious matter, Sir. I was jown at the waterfront - yes, I think the honorable gentleman gets tile point- I was down at the waterfront, Sir, and I was there ~ith my kids and I saw the demonstration of the feelings of the people of this Province toward the sealing industry.

I do not think there is a member of this House who was not Cl~ried awav. who was not com- pletely overcome with the Ecumenical service and most impressive, very emotional and it is was e~cellent, Sir, to say the least it was excellent. But as I stood there I am sure that honorable members, various thoughts went through the ~inds of honorable ~embers.

I a~ sure that the thou~ht that was uppermost in all our ninds was that 1·1 e 1·1 o u 1 d 1 y n c h r. r i an D a v i e s i f h e v1 a s i n fro n t o f u s o r , ,, e would toss Greenpeace over the wharf if they were there. . 1\~1 HOrl. i!ErlBER: (Inaudible) pay Elliott . r~R. :lEARY: ~ell~ I am qoing tp.come to ~ay E 11 i ott because I sa 1·1 some t h in q i n t be n el·' span r to d a v , Sir. that concerns me very much, and I have been talkin~ a number of ti!1eS about the administration of justice i~ this Province and I will come back to it shortlv. 1.45

~::.rc i 1 7, 1973 Tao:: .+G ~:R. ~!Eft.RY: . 3ut, :!r. Soeaker, ~he tho~gi1t that went through my mind as I stood down on the ~at~r­ front on Sunday afternoon as the sealers,and some of them haop~n to be personal friends of mine,stood en the ]ridne and on tile deck of the boat is, '.iilat 1·1ill they qet out of it? T~ev are going out to a ~unt, thev are ~oin~ to out to harvest seals where the skins ~~: ~.~na to be sent to ::on·1ay. :1r. ~;Jeaker, I think r:oy honorable friend crab- ably misunderstands the rule. ~ave unlimited time lead- ing off for the Opposition. My honorable friend sent ne a note, I have five minutes left. I have about five days left. :lR. SPEAiCER: his

interpretation. r,! R • tJ EAR Y : The ~onorable member is correct in Mr. Speaker, that is what went through my mind, and that is why, ~ir, the nex~ day when the honourable 'Baz', who likes to stick the darts into members on this side of the House - he must have been well wined and dined when the hen. gentleman took him over to Europe - and they will be stuck in again ~omorrow. ~nd I guarantee if he keeps sticking them in he will get a few stuck back pretty soon. He does not realize what he is playing with. AN HON. r1Et·18ER: i1R. !'lEARY: Do not be threatening hi~ now. That is not a threat, ·:r. Speaker .

I may not have the mike in front of me and I have a few little bits and pieces of ammunition in connection with that cro1~d. If they 1·1ant to fight, if they keep it