Manitoba Hansard — 29 July 1988 (Sitting 7, 34th Legislature, 1st Session)

34-1-7

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

MG-8048 First Session - Thirty-Fourth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD) 37 Elizabeth 11 Published under the authority of The Honourable Denis C. Rocan Speaker VOL. XXXVII No. 7 - 10 a.m., FRIDAY, JULY 29, 1988. Printed by the Office of the Queens Printer. Province of Manitoba ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Fo ur th Legislatur e Members, Const ituencies and Political Affiliation NAME CONSTITUENCY ALCOCK, Reg Osborne ANGUS, John St. Norbert ASHTON, Steve Thompson BURRELL, Parker Swan River CARR,James Fort Rouge CARSTAIRS, Sharon River Heights CHARLES, Gwen Selkirk CHEEMA, Gulzar Kildonan CHORNOPY SKI, William Burrows CONNERV, Edward Hon. Portage la Prairie COWAN, Jay Churchill CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose du Lac DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Rus sell DOER, Gary Concordia DOWNEV, James Hon. Arthur DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. Emerson DRIEDGER, Herold, L. Niakwa DUCHARME, Gerald, Hon.

Aiel EDWARDS, Paul St. James ENNS, Harry Lakeside ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood EVANS, Laurie Fort Garry EVANS, Leonard Brandon East FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo FINDLAV, Glen Hon. Virden GAUDRV, Neil St. Boniface GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa GRAY, Avis Ellice HAMMOND, Gerrie Kirkfield Park HARAPIAK, Harry The Pas HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland HELWER, Edward R. Gimli HEMPHILL, Maureen Logan KOZAK, Richard, J. Transcona LAMOUREUX, Kevin, M. lnkster MALOWAV, Jim Elm wood MANDRAKE, Ed Assiniboia MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. Morris McCRAE, James Hon. Brandon West MINENKO, Mark Seven Oaks MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon.

River East NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. Rossmere OLESON, Charlotte Hon. Gladstone ORCHARD, Donald Hon. Pembina PANKRATZ, Helmut La Verendrye PATTERSON, Allan Radisson PENNER, Jack, Hon. Rhineland PLOHMAN, John Dauphin PRAZNIK, Darren Lac du Bonnet ROCAN, Denis, Hon. Turtle Mountain ROCH, Gilles Springfield ROSE, Bob St. Vital STORIE, Jerry Flin Flon TAYLOR, Harold Wolseley URUSKI, Bill lnterlake WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy St.

Johns YEO, Iva Sturgeon Creek PARTY LIB ERAL LIB ERAL NDP PC LIBERAL LIBERAL LI BERAL LIB ERAL LIB ERAL PC NDP PC PC NDP PC PC LIBERAL PC LI BERAL PC PC LIB ERAL NDP PC PC LIBERAL PC LI BERAL PC NDP NDP PC NDP LIBER AL LIBERAL NDP LIBERAL PC PC LIBERAL PC PC PC PC PC LIBER AL PC NDP PC PC PC LIBERAL NDP LIB ERAL NDP NDP LI BERAL

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Friday, July 29, 1988. The House met at 10 a.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Hon. James McCrae (Attorney-General) introduced, by leave, Bill No. 8, The Court of Queen's Bench Small Claims Practices Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le recouvrement des petites creances a la Cour du Banc de la Reine; and Bill No. 9, Statute Law Amendment (Re-e nacted Statutes) Act; Loi modifiant diverses dispositions Legislatives (Lois readoptees). ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Man. Cttee. on Wife Abuse funding Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Opposition): My question this morni ng is for the Minis ter of Community Services (Mrs. Oleson). The Man itoba Committee on Wife Abuse is the coordinating body and the umbrella organization for shelters and abuse programs throughout this province.

On June 17 , the Mini ster met with this organization to go over with them their review and audit, and asked the committee at that particular point for a week in order to make a response. lt is almost six weeks later and, to date, they have not yet received a response. Why has this Mini ster failed to meet this commitment, particularly in light of the phone calls and letters urging her to do so? *

(1005) Mrs. Ch arlott e Ole son (Minis ter of Comm unity � Services): Thank you to the Leader of the Opposition ' (Mrs. Carstairs) for that question. Yes, I did meet with the gr oup, and we have been conside ring their proposals. In terim fund ing has been going out to them, and dec isions will be made after the Budg et is presented. Announcements will be made, I mean. Mrs. Carstairs: The Minis ter said that interim funding has been going out to them but, in fact, the quarterly payment was expected on July 1 and has not yet been received.

In deed they were informed that they would have their July payment by a minimum date of July 15, and that payment as of July 29 has not yet been received and there is no Order-in-C ouncil for that funding. This committee will be bankrupt on August 1. Will this Min ister make sure that they receive this promised funding immediately? Mrs. Oleson: They will receive the funding immediately. The Order-in- Council has passed. Mrs. Carstairs: Can the Min ister tell the House today whether they will be receiving funding for August and 188 September, or whether they are to receive funding only for July? Mrs.

Oleson: Announcements will be made after the tabling of the Budget. Mrs. Carstairs: Has this Minister and this Government decided to no longer fund the Manitoba Committee on Wife Abuse? Mrs. Oleson: Announcements will be made when we are ready to make them on this subject. Mrs. Carstairs: One can only assume from that answer that the Min ister is not going to fund the Manitoba Committee on Wife Abuse. Can the Min ister explain to this House why this committee has been removed from the normal process of quarterly funding? Mrs. Oleson: An Ord er-in-Co uncil was pa ssed yesterday for interim fundi ng.

Other announcements will be made later. Crisis Shelters - funding Delay Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Opposition): A question to the same Min ister, the shelters of this province have also expected their quarterly fund ing prior to July 1 of this year. An Order-in- Council finally did pass on July 20 of 1988 to approve this fund ing , but that means they are already working weeks behind in their fund ing requirement. Is this type of delay of fund ing for vulnerable individuals in this province going to be the ongoing style of Community Services in this province? Mrs .

Ch arlott e Oleson (Minis ter of Commu nity Service s): I wish to remind the Leader of the Opposition that this is a different type of year than what we have normally been in. We have a different set of circumstances. I realize it is not for them, and I have thanked these agencies across the province for being patient with us. This is a different situation. We cannot be announcing funding for a full year till the Budget is tabled . Mrs. Carstairs: With a final supp lementary to this Minis ter, it has been traditional in this House to provide quarterly funding to this agency and to other agencies.

Why has this Government changed the rationale for funding? Mrs. Oleson: Quarterly funding has been advanced wherever it is possible. We are working on this problem and we do sympathize with those agencies. lt is difficult for them. We know that. * ( 1010 )

Fr iday, July 29, 1988 Hazardous Wastes - Flin Flon Mr. Gary Doer (Concordia): My question is to the Minister of Environment (Mr. Connery). Certainly Manitobans have been speaking to our MLAs on the whole broad policy issue of Manitoba becoming a disposing site for U.S. chemicals. My question is to the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Connery). Notwithstanding the broader policy issues of this, yesterday the company confirmed that there was arsenic in the sludge. Today the company alleges that there are no materials such as arsenic, cadmium and mercury in the Dow Chemical shipments.

I would ask the Minister to inform Manitobans what his analysis is of these materials and substances. Hon. Edward Connery (Minister of Environment, Workplace Safety and Health): Mr. Speaker, we will be obtaining, early next week, a sample of the Dow - and let us make sure that we do not confuse Dow Chemical with Dow Corning. lt is Dow Corning, the glassware manufacturer, we are talking about, not Dow Chemical, because ttlat is the scare that is being t ried to be _put in, that it is a chemical. lt is not.

We will be obtaining samples and doing our own inde pendent analysis at the lab. 1 had a meeting this morning with ttle officials from Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting . We had an excellent meeting. We discussed the situation and they are as concerned as we are. The concern is not up in Flin Flon; the concern is with the Opposition Leader. The officials of Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting assured me that they would notify our department of every load of chemical or whatever that is coming in for processing. We would be informed of it. We would be told what is in it, so that we and the unions will know.

This compa ny offered the same so rt of communications to the previous Government and it fell on deaf ears. They did not take up on the opportunity to know what was coming in. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that the Minister had an excellent meeting with the company. Did the company inform the Minister so the Minister can inform Manitobans what was contained in some of the Dow shipments that have already been processed in Manitoba and into the Manitoba en vironment? Can the Minister inform us and indeed Manitobans whether in fact our allegations or our information is correct or not?

Can he please inform Manit obans whether indeed ttle substances that we mentioned were contained in the earlier Dow company shipments? Mr. Connery: lt is obvious that we cannot make that declaration until we have the test done. We could also be assured that this Member must be speaking to union people in Flin Flon. The union people have seen an analysis of the Dow product. They have been shown an an alyis. There are some patent rights and so forth that the company does not want a public disclosure of. All we want to assure is that the union knows and that we know that it is safe to hand le.

We will not proceed until we are sure. When our own independent 189 analysis at the Government lab is ready, then we will be able to make those decisions. There are also handling concerns. There are many concerns with these chemicals com ing in that our departme nt is investigating, and nothing will happen up there until we and the union are sure that it is safe to hand le. Mr. Doer: Well, I have a very simple question to the Min ister . Did the compan y inform the Minister of En vironme nt (Mr .

Conne ry) so the Minister of Environment can inform Manitobans that indeed there was arsenic, cadmium and mercury in the material that has alr eady been pr ocessed into Manitoba 's environment? Mr. Connery: If the Honourable Member would do his research, he would know that already in the plant at Flin Flon, arsenic is pr-esent in minimal amounts. The product coming in, I am told, has infinitesimal amounts, a very very minor portion of what has already been used iri the plarit. T tiose are the facts and those facts � are available. He is trying to mislead the people and � to scare. We have seen for three days, Mr.

Speaker, scaremongering frorri the Opposition over here when there is no issue. * (101 5) Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, we are prepared to share with the Minister. We have it on strong authority that the first shipment that was in the Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting , shipped from the United States, shipped from Dow Chemicals, indeed contained arsenic, cadmium and mercury.

There is a fundamental difference between treating the materials that come from the ground in Manitoba in our smelters, and indeed becoming the source and receiving the material from all over the_ United States in terms of chemicals and treating them into the Manitoba environm ent . I wish the Mi nister of Envi ronment (Mr . Connery) could unde rstand the difference.

We are prepared to share on a confidential basis our 4 material, and I would ask the Minister when he is going to put in a cease order so that Manitobans can have some protection on the broader policy issue of this prov ince becoming the dep osit ory for American chemicals. Mr. Connery: I would like to advise the House that the first carload of this Dow Corning chemical came in, in March, under the NDP Government when they were in power. Military batteries were processed . . Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh! Mr.

Connery: The first load came in under the NDP Government. Military batteries were processed up there

Friday, July 29, 1988 in the last year when they were in power. Computer chips were processed in Flin Flon under their Party. After people got sick, then it was stopped. There was also another load of product that came in from Calgon under their Party and was processed. Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Member for Concordia (Mr. Doer), on a point of order. Mr. Doer: I have a point of order, Mr. Speaker, on the comments made my the Minister of Environment (Mr. Connery).

On Wed nesday, when we raised this issue, we fully disclosed that there had been the one shipment of the batteries which we had stopped and, secondly, we did state that the Dow Chemicals came in during the election period, before we had changed office. We have made that publ ic. Mr. Speaker: A dispute over the facts is not a point of order. Family Violence Mrs. Gwen Charles (Selkirk): My question is to the Attorney-General (Mr. McCrae).

The Committee for Children and Wife in Crisis at The Pas has been notified this week that no longer will the town police detachment interview women who are willing to pr ess charges against abus ive spous es in the protective environment of the shelter. In addition to the trauma they already are experiencing, women will now be forced to report to the offices of the police. Is this the style of improved services people in need are to expect from this Government, and will the Minister change these directives today, immediately? Hon.

James McCrae (Attorney-General): I will ask for a report from my department immediately. Mrs. Charles: Again to the Attorney-General (Mr. McC rae), will the Mini ster indi cate whether his Government supports the attitude of some rural RCMP de tach ments that they are not bodyguards nor messenger services and, to that end, will not accompany women who have escaped dangerous family situations, but must return to pick up clothes, medication, or children's needs for the well- being of themselves and for their children?

And will he indi cate any directives that have been sent to our rur al poli cing un it s, overviewing the Government's support of women and children in crisis? Mr. McCrae: Early after my appointment, I became involved and extremely interested in family violence issues. Here again on this matter, I will receive a report from my department and get back to the Honourable Member without delay. Crisis Shelter - Funding Mrs. Gwen Charles (Selkirk): My question is to the Mini ster of Community Services (Mrs. Oleson).

Since the Wife Abuse Centre for Selkirk again has had a quarterly advance of the 1987 Budget and since 190 this Budget does not reflect the cost of the shelter added in August of last year, will the Minister indicate whether indeed she realizes this shelter is yet to be funded, and give indications of the degree of priority that funding of such shelt ers wi ll take wit h her Government? *

(1020) Hon. Charlotte Oleson (Minist er of Commun ity Services): The question of family violence is very very important to this Government. I will take as notice your query regarding the Selkirk shelter, and I will get back to you on that. National Conference on Wife Abuse Ms. Avis Gray (EIIice): My question is to the Minister of Community Services (Mrs. Oleson). Manitoba was to be the site of a national conference on wife abuse this coming November. However, it has been cancelled because of the financial difficulties of the Committee on Wife Abuse.

Could the Minister assure this House that this conference will take place in this province? Hon . Charl otte Oleson (Minister of Co mmunity Ser vices ): The whole question of fundi ng of all agencies and groups is still not able to be published because the Budget has not been publ ished. Ms. Gray: A supp lementary to the Minister of Community Services (Mrs. Oleson), would the Minister tell this House what problems were identi fied in an audit and review that was conducted on the Manitoba Committee on Wife Abuse? This audit was discussed with this committee.

Could the Mini ster please tell this House the findings of that review? Mrs. Oleson: That review has been looked at by both Parties. lt is not for publication at this time. Social Agencies - Funding Ms. Avis Gray (EIIice): My question is for the Deputy Premier. Would the Deputy Premier please tell this House how women and the needs of women across the Province of Manitoba can possibly be a priority with this Government, given the lack of action on the part of the Department of Community Se rvices · regarding funding.

The Manitoba Committee on Wife Abuse is experiencing difficulties and has actually laid off staff. Shelters across the Province of Manitoba are exper iencing day-to-day difficulties. Could the Deputy Premier please tell us how possibly this Government can see women and their needs as a priority? Hon. Glen Cummings (Executive Council): I would be very pleased to assure the Opposition and the people of this province that the very serious concern of wife abuse and the important services provided by the shelters is supported and will be sup ported by this Government.

I would like to also advise the Member opposite that I am sure they will be pleased with the announcements that will be coming forth in the Budget.

Friday, July 29, 1988 Man. Oil & Gas Corp. Mr. Harry Enns (lakeside ): I direct a question to the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Oil and Gas (Mr. Downey) exploration. it arises out of information that he tabled in the House the other day. Some Members will recall that, on February last, I was attempting to inquire from the then Government and the then Minister responsible for Energy the costs of the failed atte mpt to acquir e In ter-City Ga s Corporation at that time. The Min ister at that time clearly indicates in Hansard that the total cost was some $589,000 .00.

I suggested at the time that figure was low and perhaps could have been considerably higher, indeed in the millions of dollars. My question to the Minister is: lt would appear that, as early as December 8, 1987, one invoice alone amounted to some $861,000 for the acquisition costs. Another invoice of $371,000 brings that figure to over the $1 million that I had sug gested . Mr. Speaker: Does the Honourable Member have a question? Mr. Enns: My question to the Min ister is: Would this information have been available to the Min ister of the Day? Hon.

James Downey (Mini ster responsible for The Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation Act): I am pleased to respond to that question. I first of all want to say how important I think it is to all Members of the Assembly that, when information is provided, accuracy is of the utmost importance so that everyone, particularly the public, can base their decisions on what is taking place with the taxpayers' funds.

I do say to the Member, not only do the numbers here fully disclose that the information provided was less than accurate but, in addition to the $1 .2 million that has been spent so far on behalf of the taxpayers which was passed through the Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation, that number is even greater than the $1 .2 million. So my colleague in his question was absolutely right, and I think it is important that the people of Manitoba know fully the story that took place prior to the takeover of this administration. * (10 25) Mr.

Enns: I appreciate it is not within the Rules and traditions of this House to be able to ask questions of former Ministers, although I must acknowledge I had more fun doing that during those days. My suppl emen tar y quest ion to the Min ister responsible for Manitoba Oil and Gas (Mr. Downey), the information that he has now received from the president of that corporation, does that give him any indication that figure out now, well in excess of a $1 million, will in fact be considerably higher? Mr.

Downey: As ind icated in the information and any dis cussions that have taken -(In terject ion)- I can appreciate the sensitivity of the former Minister who 191 this is dealing with and I think the people of Manit oba made their decision. I would hope they would now give the opportunity for the Government to disclose and to give some further evidence as to why they made their decision the way they did at the last election. The question directly is: Are there further financ ial implications in this regard?

The answer is, I have been informed that there could well be further expenses which either are in the Department of Mines and Energy and/ or in the Manitoba Oil and Gas Corporation. We will attempt to fully disclose those figures when the y are available. Hazardous Wastes - Flin Flon Mr. Gary Doer (leader of the Second Opposition): I was disappointed our offer to share some of the information on the Dow shipments was not received by the Minister and, clearly, we have stated publicly that the first shipment did come in during the latter part of the election and over the changing Governments.

So I have alwa ys stated that, and I have no problem with the Minister's point in that regard. I would ask the Min ister, certainly in lieu of the escalating number of boxcars coming in Manitoba in the last two or three months from the United States, and let us make that point perfectly clear, is the Minister satisfied that the licence requirements under The Clean Environment Act have been met by the corporation and the processing of these goods? Hon.

Edward Connery (Mini ster of the Environm ent, Workplace Safety and Health): We are continuously monitoring all the plants in Manitoba, watching to make sur e that there are no problems un der Cl ean Environment. As you know, from time to time, variations are made and a variation was made to that particular function under their rule - a variation was made. We are watching these things very closely. As there are problems, we will monitor it.

We will maybe even stop work order, if it is necessary, if it is environmentally dangerous. � We even went so far as to talk to the union people up in Flin Flan to see if there was a big concern with the union. Do you know what they said to me? What is going on? Why are all the reporters up here? What is the issue? They are concerned with what they are handling, but they did not raise this big issue. This issue was raised by the Leader of the N.D. Party (Mr. Doer) to fearmonger and to try to draw attention to their own Party. Mr.

Doer: My question to the Minister is: Is he satisfied that the company, Hudson Bay Minin g and Smelting, in operating these chemicals from the United States, is operating within the licence they presently have pursuant to The Clean Environment Act? Mr. Connery: As the Member knows, there has only been one load processed. The Member knows that, if I believe correctly, there are some 7,000 tonnes of ore that are processed every day, and we are looking at 35 to 50 tonnes coming in which would be mixed in -

Friday, July 29, 1988 over a long period of time. So there is no significant change. As I indi cated to the Mem ber, the material coming in has significa ntly less ing redients than the ore they are processing. But our Workp lace Safety and Health people are on the site in Flin Flon on a continuous basis, working with the unions, working with the companies and analyzing the material, analyzing the workplace to ensure. As you know, and the Member should know, there are monitoring systems within all plants to ensure that the threshold value levels are within proper levels. * (1 030) Mr.

Doer: My question was very simple to the Minister. Are they operating within the licence that they have been granted ? We know that the licence for smelting operations is pursuant to the extraction of metals that are in the ground at that site, not in terms of disposing of chemicals and other goods from other locations, � particularly from the United States. Is the company J operat ing within their licence pu rsuant to The Environment Act? Mr. Cannery: I will take that question as notice. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh! Mr. Connery: Mr.

Speaker, when you control Chip'n Dale, maybe some Members will be able to answer a question. I have asked our staff to look at it to ensure that they are and, if there are no problems, I will still brin g the information to the Member in the House as soon as all that information is available. Pharmacare Claims - Delay Mr. William Chornopyski (Burrows): My question is for the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard). The Pharmacare Program is presently buried under a huge backlog of outstanding claims. This is causing � severe hardship and frustration for many claimants, , especially the senior citizens.

Extra overtime has been authorized as a quick fix but, over the long run, modernization of Pharmacare's operating policies and administration will be required. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister implement the pharmacard system which would significantly reduce up front expen ses for claimants and increase the efficiency of the program? An Honourable Member: it is a good idea. Hon. Donaid Orchard (Mini ster of Health): Mr. Sp eaker, I certainly want to thank my honourable friend from Burrows for that question.

There has been a very signi ficant backlog at the Pharmacare program caused by some difficulties with staff, where one of the senior people has not been able to attend work on a regular basis. Besides that, the staff has inde ed been dedicating sig nificant time, some of it overtime. Inde ed, within the Manitoba Health Services Commission, staff allocations have been dedicated to bring down the backlog of 192 Pharmacare claims because we recognize that seniors and others who are desirous of having that refund need the money for very real financial reasons. As a result, Mr.

Speaker, I am pleased to ind icate to the Member for Burrows (Mr. Chornopyski) that, as of today, 2, 000 cheq ues are going out to re imbur se Pharmacare claimants. Those 2,0 00 cheques that are going out this morning represent a six-week turnaround which has been the normal turnaround time for this time of the year. Mr. Chornopyski: I have a supp lementary question for the same Honourable Minister. When will the Minister change the receipt submission rules so that total claims over the specified dollar level can be made at any time, thereby avoiding the annual spring rush? Mr. Orchard: Mr.

Speaker, let me indi cate to my honourable friend for Burrows that the Pharmacare program has been under some unusual circumstances over the last six months, part of which are caused by the intrans igence of the previous administration in their dealings. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh! Mr. Orchard: Do you know that . . . Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The Honourable Member for Burrows (Mr. Chornopyski) has asked a question. I am sure the Honourable Member would like to hear an answer. Mr.

Orchard: Part of the problem has been, of course, a dispute with the pharmacists which still is unresolved, the unilateral change of regulation imposed by the previous administration when they could not equitably resolve the dispensing fee neg otiations with the Pharm aceutical Associat ion . As we ll, I think all Honourable Members will be pleased to know that there are growing claims to the system, so that now we have some 200,000 claims per year being processed.

In addi tion to the measures taken internally over the last several weeks, which led to the mailing of the 2,000 cheques today which represents appr oximately a six week turnaround time, in addition to that to clear up the app roximate 11 ,000 numbers of backlog claims right now that are in the Commiss ion, we have authorized the hiring of five part-time staff to clear that backlog up in the month of August. Mr. Chornopyski: My second supplementar y, Mr. Speaker, to the same Honourable Minister. Will the Minister explore the pharmacard option with Manitoba's pharmacists and major consumers? Mr. Orchard: Mr.

Speaker, that issue has been explored by myself in di scussio ns wit h the Pharm acis ts' Association of Manitoba, and it is a subject of discussion with the Pharmacare program and staff internally at the Manitoba Health Services Commission to see the appropriateness, the effectiveness and the benefit of undertaking such a system.

Friday, July 29, 1988 Brick Warehouse - Charges Mr. Ji m Maloway (Eimwoo d) : Mr. Sp eaker , my question is to the Attorney-General. In light of the refusal of the Attorney-General to state whether or not the Government will supp ort Bills No. 2 and No. 3, that is the amendments to The Bus iness Names Registration Act and The Corporations Amendment Act, would the Attorney-General lay charges against Brick Warehouse of Alberta for being in breach of The Business Names Registration Act for the last 75 days and, if not, why not? Hon. James McCrae (Attorney-General): Mr.

Speaker, the Honourable Member for El mwood (Mr. Maloway) is just a little pr emature in making comments about whether this party or that party is willing and ready to support a Private Member's Bill which has only just recently been put on the Order Paper and will not come up until at least a week from now.

The Honourable Member should be aware that the department is very well aware of the issue and very concerned about the issue faced by the Brick family, who are the proprietors of Brick's Fine Furniture here in Winnipeg, and other businesses in this province who are experiencing difficulties because of the differences or the anomalies that you find between the federal Trademarks Act and the provincial Corporations Act. The matter is very well in hand by my department and, when we are ready to make an announcement in regard to the Honourable Member's question, we will make it.

I will, however, say that we have written to the federal Mini ster of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, the Honourable Harvey Andre, urging him to take a very close look at the Federal Trademarks Act with a view to amending it so that Manitoba businesses established here for 20 years and more are given proper rights to do business in this province. Mr. Maloway: To the same Min ister, Mr Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) during the last election promised the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce that he would act to help Brick's Fine Furniture. The Attorney-General (Mr.

McCrae) should know that it is his duty to uphold the law. He should also know that local trade is a provincial matter and that his failure to uphold the law threatens many other local firms as well. Will he press charges? Mr. McCrae: As I say, Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Member is premature in his first question and he is premature in suggesting that the Attorney-General of this province is failing to do his duty in terms of upholding the law. Our law is here and it is my duty to uphold the law. We are taking every step necessary and possible in this situation to assist a Manitoba busine ss of long standing .

Mr. Maloway: Mr. Speaker, a final supp lementary to the Attorney-General, on April 14 , Brick Warehouse of Alberta opened its doors.

Section 3.2 of The Business Names Registration Act gives them 30 days to register. They have now contravened the Act by 75 days. Would 193 the Attorney-Gene ral read

Section 3.2 of The Business Names Registration Act and press charges against Brick Warehouse? Mr. McCrae: The Alberta Brick Warehouse is not registered under The Corporations Act of Manitoba and my dep artment is acting on that issue. * (10 40) Grand Beach Provincial Park Campground - Wind Damage Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): My question is for the Minister of Business Development and Tourism (Mr. Ernst). Tourism is the third-l argest industry in Manitoba and crit ical to the provi ncial economic perf ormance. Government encouragement of Mani toba's tourist indus try is needed in many ways.

As an aftermath to the severe windstorm in June, there has been an announcement by the Highways Minister (Mr. Driedger) that disaster relief in the form of clean-up money for the owners in the Gimli area, Victoria Beach and the Local Government District of Alexander. Will the Minister explain to the House what sense there is in leaving one-third of the popular but undersized campground of Grand Beach Provincial Park in an unusable state because of wind damage there? Hon. James Ernst (Mini ster of Industry, Trade and Touri sm ): I would like to advis e the Honourable Member for St. Boniface (Mr.

Gaudry) that the provincial campgrounds fall under the jurisdiction of the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Penner). Unfortunately, at this point, I discussed the matter with him yesterday. He indi cated that the clean-up was completed. I know little more than that because it is not within the juri sdiction of the Mi nistry of In du stry, Trade and Tourism. I would suggest that the Honourable Member question the Minister of Natural Resources further if � he desires addit ional information. Grand Beach Provincial Park Campground - Wind Damage Mr. Neil Gaudry (St .

Bon iface): To the Honourable Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Penner), summers are too short and this one is half over. lt is presently the tourist high season and there is only one more long weekend after this one. Will the Minister tell the House when they will provide funding the Grand Beach clean up? Hon . Albert Driedger (M in ister of Hi ghways and Transportati on) : lt was my impression by comments made by the Minister responsible for Business and Tourism (Mr. Ernst) that the project had been completed. in any event, I will take the question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr.

Penner) and have a reply back at the next sitting.

Friday, July 29, 1988 Surveys Branch - Moratorium Hon. James McCrae (Attorney-General): Yesterday, the Honourable Member for St. James (Mr. Edwards) - seems like it is always going to be the Honourable Member for St. James. lt was the Member for St. James in the last Session who I dealt with to some extent. Yesterday, the Honourable Member raised a question, and I promised that I would get back with an answer just as soon as possible. I am advised by officials at the Winnip eg Land Titles Office that there is no moratorium on the examination and processing of plans of the Survey

Section of the land Titles Office. All plans are being registered in the normal fashion. The Survey

Section and the Land Titles Sect ion are both experi encing peak registra tions, together with normal vacat ion

schedule s. Plans dep osited this week will not be pre-exam ined, pending examination of those plans already presented . This in no way constitutes a moratorium, but rather is the normal procedure. I ask the Member, stop sending shock waves across the City of Wi nnipeg. Child Care - Funding Ms. Maureen Hemphill (logan): A question to the Minis ter of Community Services (Mrs. Oleson).

In light of the fact that, although we know that we presently have one of the best day care program systems in North America, we also know that we st ill require an additional 16,000 day care spaces; in light of the fact that all stud ies show that the non-p rofit day care system is the one that provides the best quality day care; in light of the fact that we know that the commercial, private day care system does not have the same number of qualified staff, has more trouble meeting the licensing standards, go where there is a profit not where there is a need, put some of the public money into the pockets of the operators, would the Min ister please confirm to us and please make a commitment to this House and the people of Manitoba, the parents of Manitoba particularly, that the new federal day care money and the new provincial day care money will indeed go, not into the existing 4,000 commercial day care spaces which will give us no new day care spaces, but will go into new non-pr ofit day care spaces?

Hon. Char lotte Oleson (Mini ster of Commu ni ty Services): I wish to assure the Member that we are looking at all aspects of day care. We want flexibili ty in the day care system, and we are looking at all different ways of effectively providing day care for the parents of Manitoba. Ms. Hemphill: When we are tal king about the expenditure of money, one of the other major issues in the day care system is the salaries that are being presently paid to day care workers. According to a Stats Canada recent study, it shows that day care are the poorest-paid workers in the country.

They are lower than waitresses and bartenders, and we know that the job they do is a little more important than that. 194 Will the Minister please guarantee that the existing salary enhancement grant that is presently given to day care workers that gives our day care workers $14,000 in the rural area, $16,000 in the city, but is far below the $22,000 they should be making according to pay equity, will she guarantee they will maintain that salary enhancement and increase it, if possible? Mrs.

Oleson: As I said before, we are looking at all aspects of this and, when I make announcements regarding day care in the near future, all those questions will be answered. Child Care - Training Ms. Maureen Hemphill (logan): Madam Speaker - Mr. Speaker, I will put my glasses on. Mr. Speaker, my apologies. While the Minister is taking those questions as notice actually, because she has given no answer, and will report back to the House, there is one other area that is very important and that is the question of adequate training. Two-thirds of the staff in our day care systems must be trained by October '88.

All day cares must have two-thirds of their staff trained. I would like the Minister to report to the House, and tell us whether or not - what the numbers are for people who have not been licensed in the non-pr ofit day care system and those who are not carrying licences in the private commercial day care system. lt is my understanding that there are far more staff who do not have adequate licences and who are having trouble meeting the licensing standards in the priv ate day care system than in the non-p rofit day care system. Hon.

Charlotte Oleson (Mini ster of Commu ni ty Services): In order to give accurate information to the Member, I would have to take that as notice and get back to her on the specifics. Crisis Shelters - Funding Hon . Charlotte Oleson (Min ister of Commu nity Services): While I am on my feet, Mr. Speaker, with your permission, I would like to mention to the Member for Selkirk (Mrs. Charles), who enquired earlier, staff advised me that the second- quarter funding for the shelters, including Selkirk, are either being picked up · today or put in the mail today. Mr. John Angus (St. Norbert): Mr.

Speaker, I would like to beg your indul gence. The question concerns the priorities of this Government in relation to statements that were alluded to by the Minister of Trade (Mr. Ernst) and the Free Trade Agreement. He suggested on May 25 that he would review the enabling legislation and be concerned and be supportive if it trampled provincial rights. I think that I would like to ask the Minister if - and I am sure that he is putting the interests of Manitobans ahead of the party line from Ottawa. But in light of the changes that have been proposed in relation to the

Friday, July 29, 1988 overriding legislation and in relation to water, has he looked at the potential of the Americans coming in and setting up systems to buy blood from Canad ians who want to sell their blood? Mr. Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired. (lnterjection)- I recognized the Honourable Member for St Norbert (Mr. Angus) because I understood he was rising on a point of order. Mr. Angus: I am sorry. Mr. Speaker, I will apologize to you and the House. I was unfamiliar with the Rules, and I realize that I was not allowed to do that and I will take it up with my chairman as the House chairman.

Thank you. ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE Mr. Speaker: On the pro posed motion of the Honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praznik), standing in the name of the Honourable Member for Logan (Ms. Hemphiil). Ms. Maureen Hemphill (Logan): I am very pleased to have this opportunity to share with my colleagues some of my thoughts on the Sp eech from the Throne, and I would like to begin by congratulating you, Mr. Speaker.

We all know that you have accepted a very challenging job, one that is very important to the fundamental parliamentary democratic system that we operate under and one that is going to require fairness and a very even hand, and that you must find a way to provide a balance between freedom of speech and the right to be heard and maintainin g a certain required level of decorum in the House that is also necessary for our ability to do our job. *

(1050) We have all been watching you and each other as we adjust to our new positions, and I want to say that you have certainly survived your first week quite intact. 1 have noticed particularly that you have been able to remain calm and cool and that you have retained a sense of humour.

If any of us were to give you any advice, having been in the House for a short period of time or a long period of time, it would probably be that your sense of humour will probably be what will get you and perhaps us through some of the difficult moments that are facing us ahead , and I wish you well in your duties. 1 would like to congratulate the Deputy Speaker. Although he is not here, I am sure his colleagues will pass my good wishes on to him, the Member for Seven Oaks (Mr. M inenko). My apologies, I will just send my message and I am sure he will receive it. Mr.

Speaker, he is in the interesting position of being given the job and literally having to learn on the job.

We know that there is not a better way to learn perhaps than the way he is going to be learning, which is learning while he is doing the job, and we wish him welL I also would like to congratulate all of the Members who were elected , but particularly the new Members 195 of this Legislature, those who are being elected for the first time. lt gives me an opportunity to say to them and even to the people of Manitoba that I have always believed politics and politicians to be a very honourable profession and very honourable people.

While we know we are facing a very difficult time to be in Government, to be in Opposition, to be doing the job of elected office, that it is actually a thankless job and one for which you are under a lot of stress and pressure and you do not get too many thanks, it also giv es us, I think, a gr eater challenge and opportunity to do public service than does almost any other role or position.

I think that is one that I greatly appreciate, having the opportunity to serve and I am sure they do also. (The Acting Speaker, Harold Gilleshammer, in the Chair.) I also want to take just a couple of minutes to congratulate the women who have been elected, some old or some who have been elected before and some who are being elected for the first time. We now have eight women in the Chamber. I think that is a record.

While we recognize the numbers are increasing a little more slowly than we would want to, we also recognize that the ones who are here are breaking ground for our children and grandchildr en who are coming behind us. ! would like to pay

part icular mention to the Leader of the Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs) who is a woman Leader of a Party and who is, I think, demonstrating the capab ility of women to serve in that capacity, as well all the women of the Chamber demonstrate to the women of our province and the people of our province, and I wish them all welL I did want to say a few words about my constituency. First of all, I want to thank the members of my constituency for the support that they have given me over the years and that continued in the last election.

I want to say that we have worked very hard in Logan not just to serve the members or the constituents of Logan but to work on behalf of the entire In ner City � and all of the people in the In ner City. I am very proud of what we have been able to accomplish, Mr. Acting Speaker, in that period of time, and I want to touch on it a bit lt was not very long ago that we had a dying In ner City. The deterioration was so bad that there were a lot of us who were not sure that we could ever bring it back up again.

But through a concerted effort not just of our Government, I do not want to suggest, but all levels of Government, community organizations, institutions and really the people of the In ner City themselves who have been the most committed to making improvements to make the Inner City a good place to live, we have made tremendous strides in making the heart of our city a good place to live and to raise families. I think that we have renovated and upgraded a tremendous amount of housing. We are saving the old buildi ngs instead of tearing !hem down which was done previously and which we must stop doing. They are •

Friday, July 29, 1988 being turned into office places, community places, housing for handicapped and for families. One of the programs that I am proudest of is our lnfill Housing Program that took empty lots in the city that were just eyesores and full of garbage and certainly did not enhance the neighbourhood community, bought the property, our thanks to the city, often for a very small amount of money and put very lovely infill houses on them that were then made available to people who wanted to live in the city.

Those infill houses have gone a treme nd ous way in helping encourage their neig hbours and the community to upgrade their homes and to improve the street and the neig hbourhood. The tra ining programs , our schools, Mr. Actin g Speaker, we know that if the Inner City is going to be a place where people work and live that we have to have good schools. We also know that our schools have been allowed to deteriorate for decades, not 10 years, not 20 years, not 30 years, but 40 years and 50 years, and that these schools were in no way adequate to provide an education to the children of the Inner City.

They were a far cry from the beautiful new schools that had been built in the suburbs to accommodate the new developments that had gone out there in the suburbs. In the first year we were in, I think we committed $20 million to the In ner City schools so that with the schools, with the training programs that are going in there, the compensatory programs that are recognizing that at- risk children in the Inner City need special help and special support to have a decent education, we have really been making great strides. I am concerned about a couple of things that are happening, Mr. Acting Speaker.

The first is the recent approval by the city to allow a major development to go beyond the suburban limit line that was accepted and agreed to, I think, by the city. I am very concerned about that continuing . City Council in its wisd om accepted that there should be an urban lot line, that development should not go outside of this line. lt is going to cost the taxpayers $90 million, a tremend ously unnecessary increase in costs, but it is going to detract from our continued renovation in maintenance and improvement of the Inner City because there is not going to be money around to do both.

I would encourage the Minister of Urban Affairs (Mr. Ducharme) to meet with the members of City Council and to encourage them to turn down that major development. If that is not the case, then I think that the province should impose an urban limit line to development. That is something we did not do, we did not want to do. We thought the City Council was agreeing to it. If they do not conform to their own plan, then I think it must be required by us. One of the other major concerns that I have, Mr. Acting Speaker, is the delay of the flow of funds from the Inner Core.

We know that the Inner Core has given a tremend ous boost to the In ner City. lt has trained people, it has educated them. lt has helped businesses set up in the Inner City. it has fixed up housing. lt is going to participate in the development of the Forks as a tourism attraction. lt helps many community-based 196 ag encies and organizations and many volunteer organizations but, for a long time, the money has not been flowing. People are on the verge of going bankrupt, businesses are. Community agencies are taking loans. They are all struggling to hold on, waiting for their In ner Core money to come in.

I would ask the Minister of Urban Affairs (Mr. Ducharme) to take this as a very serious issue, to please find out where the log jam is, why that money is not flowing and please get it flowing as quickly as possible. I now want to talk a little bit about the Throne Speech, and I guess the first thing I have to say is that there is not much to say about it. You know the old saying, "much ado about nothing "? Well, there is not much ado about nothing in this Throne Speech.- (Interjection l A copy of your Throne Speech? Of the Throne Speech - you think that I must have gotten the wrong Throne Speech? Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the first thing that you can tell when you read this Throne Speech is that this is an election Throne Speech. This is an election Throne Speech and it has been written by a Government who believes that they may be facing an election at any time and wants to cover all of the areas, all bases, so that if the election comes they have out-conservatived the Conservatives, out-liberalled the Liberals, and really have a little bit of something in there for everybody. But most of it was in there before. * (1100) lt looks like they want to get out in about two-and a-half months, Mr. Deputy-Speaker.

I think they are looking for a short Session, one where the Throne Sp eech is based, I think, 80 percent on programs that are already in existence or that are being expanded and about 20 percent on studies. So 80 percent of this Throne Speech is already happening. The programs have been initiated; they have been developed. They are implemented; they are expandi ng them in many areas.

They are studying everything under the sun, and there is about 20 percent of the Throne Speech that is new initiative, that is new action, that is giving some indication of the attitude and the direction of this Government . lt is a Government that does not have any plans. When they went out in the election, they said we have got plans and we have got vision and we want to be elected so we can implement them, but there is not any plan in here, there is not any vision in here. They have no economic plans.

They are just maintaining the programs that exist, promising other programs in the social services area, and hoping that people will not notice how little they are doing . Let us look where the real commitments are. The real commitments and where they are putting money is to satisfy the right-wing of the Party and of the province. They are instituting a reduction in the payroll tax. They have suggested that they will, I think, probably emasculate final offer selection. But when it comes to the social services, when it comes to social justice and economic justice issues, what are they doing ?

They are studying them to death. They have task forces, they

FridEiy, Juiy 29, 19sa haveWhite Papers, they have stud ies, vulnerable adults, the meClical system , all of these areas - no mon ey, no programs and no initiatives. They are going out to consult, Mr. Acting Speaker, and we agree with consultation, but we think they should have some idea of what the y want to do as a Government before they go out there. So they are taking their_p o!icies out and then asking the people to react, not a$Rilig the people to develop the pol icies, the plan and the vision for the province. Mr.

Acting Speaker, one of the things .that they are talking, or the only thing that they are talking about really is tha t they are going to so lve all their probl ems through better management. They are goin g to cut fat, the�u� r,�,going to avoid dupl ication, the y are. going to have .better management, and that is going to be the way that they are going t0 be. able to maintain their health, social services and educat ion programs. lt is really one of the few indi cations of an impo rtant priority for this Govern ment. _lt is about the only thin g they have re ally said they are going to do.

They are goihg to be better managers. On� pt the ways they are going to manage better is by c�tiirig down on the niJmber of Mini� ter!l. You know, Mr. Acting Speaker, I have to say, qn beha!f 9f the Min isters over there on the ot her side of the House, I think that is a pen ny-wiSe and pound- foolish action. First of all, I rem ind the Premier (Mr . Filmon) that we started out just with 12 so he should kn ow that often these incr eased over the years.

But I think the most imp ortant thing is that, if you want to manage your departm ent, you have to have a manageable department and the load they have. given those Min isters means, and it is already evi dent, that they are not on top of everything in their departmen t. They cannot manage, let alone give dir ection and leader ship tha t is re quir ed, becaus e they are overwhelmed and overburdened with the num bers of portfolios they have got, .so that each major portfolio is served by a part-t ime Min ister.

I t.hink they will .find the folly _of t hat as it becomes more difficuit for them to manage the departments. There are several contradictions in the Throne $peech, Mr. Acting Speaker, and I want to talk about a few of them. The Throne Sp eech says that northern Manito!:>a plays a key role in the economic development of our province. Wel l, we applaud that, espec ially coming from a Cons ervative Govern ment that has never shown any indic ation of interest in giving the Nor th a priority before.

We will anxiously await to see what it is they are going to do to improve and incr ease the econ omic development of our province and to allow the North to p�:�rticipate in economic policies and programs that are available in our province. But I am afraid, Mr. Acting Speaker, that they failed their first test on this. There was a very im portant policy change to a very important program. That policy change was in the program of Commu nity Places.

Wha t they did is virtually elimina te northern com mun ities and the entir e North from being able to access any of those moni !¥1, This is an area that has the least com muni ty infrastruct ure, that needs the most help in developing commun ity-b ased resources and that needs the tool, the economic tool that is provided by the Comm unity Pl aces Program. Wha t has happened , the policy says that they will now have to, like everybody else, put up 50 percent of the funding tl)at they are going to receive from the province. I would like to know if the Mem bers opposite - there are two choices.

They really do not want them to access the funds or they do n.ot kriow anything about the North. I do not know which it is. An Honourable Member: Both. Ms. Hemphill: He. says it is bot h. They do not w�nt them to access the funds and they do n�t know anything about the North because! if they did � thE!Y would know that l1 com muni ty that h.as 90 percerii unemp loyme nt, that has no business, that has no infrastructure, has no commu nity club s, h.as no way .of raising their 50 percent, virtually the li�Jhts are _out fc:ir tilE� North. as far as the Com muni ty Places Program goes.

That, to me, � makes a mocker y of their statement in the Throne � Speech that they are going to give a priority to economic development in the North. There is another area, Mr. Acting Speaker. They are talk,ing about creathig a Min ister for sen iors because senior cit izens have made such a contribution to this province. They want to focu� on senior citizen programs and give them a priorit y, I applaud that.

I actually think that having a Minis ter of senior citi zens is a good idea. lt shows the seniors of our province that they are respected and given recognition for the pioneering work they did in building our count ry. But they failed again when it comes to action. When you are tal king about vulnerable adults, when you are talking about seniors' abuse, what are they doing? Now that they have a new Min ister, they are going to put oiJt a White Paper. Are they coming out with a program? Are they coming out with lj!Ction? We all know what the problem is and we know that something needs to be done about it.

I want to suggest to them that a Wh ite Paper is not going to pro tect one sen ior cit izen � in this province. lt is not going to stop one case of � abuse. So there are two examples of where their priorities are, and the statements that they are making in the Throne Speech are not anywhere in evidence in terms of the early actions that are being takeri by this Government. So I do not kn ow why we should expect that the other ones are going to be carried out in any better way. I want to mention a little bit about what . was in progress.

When you read through the Throne Speech, you read a lot where it says enhanced , continued advancemen t, all of which means that the programs were already in place. I want to list a fE!w of them and ind icate that one . of the reasons that the Mem bers opposite are able to move on some of these programs now is because of the years of work that have already been put in place by the previous Government. I will give you some examples. The first one I would like to mention is Osborne House. In the Throne Speech, they have said that they are

Friday, July 29, 1988 going to have some impr ovements for Osborne House, that wife abuse is a serious issue and they are going to impr ove the facili ty of Osborne House. I commend them for that, but I want them to kn ow that it took us a year to do the study with Osborne House, to look at the options - whether we wou ld ren ovate that building, buy a new building, whether the servic es should be decentral ized - so that we could come up with the information that would allow us to make the best use .of ihe money to expand the services and impr ove the facil ity.

All that has happened is that this Governmen t h�:�s come in at. the very moment the report was comple ted that said what should be done. All the work was done in the previous year and they are capitaliz ing in this case, .and ma ny others, on the year of work that was done by the previous Governmen t. *

(1110) Lite racy - I commend them for moving on lite racy, but they are not really moving on it. The y are just conti nuing it. in fact, the words they said are: "My Government will take action to eradicate illiteracy . . . '.'by tiJe years 1990 or 1991, which .is going to be ihe Year of Liter acy. I just want tci rem ind them that I am q�aq U1ey �re put ting . �\'T'IPIJasis Of! jt, .lt is � pri,jrity;,.:l think jt,. should be� But my . � overnment institut ed ttlal progr al)1 when I was the Min ister of Educa tion, so that program, the literacy program, has been in place for several years.

I am glad they are <;ontinuing it. If they are going to expand)t. I afr1 giad they are going to expan d it, although I do recall in the Esti mates de bate that there was some criticism from this side of the House because I was. putting a priorit y on literacy and they wonder ed why, but now it is a prior ity. Ano ther area, they talk about the access program for single parents and enhancement. That means the program was already in place. The Child Protection �entre, they are conti nuing the Child Protec;tion Centre. lt . was already there and . in the flu dget. We were expanding tiJe funding.

We . w�re in . the proc ess of enhancing ,ail of th!'!Se. Ail of these things that I am talking �bout were ini tia ted , were develo ped , � implemente d and were being expanded in our Budget. ' All of them had additional mone y. Wife abuse and child abuse programs develope d and desig ned by the former Government, initially with not a Jot of sympathy ()r support I do not think from other Mem bers of the House. The Forks, we are going to make the Forks a national showcase. We were working on that for two years. Crime prevention and victi ms of crime, it was our Attorney-General and our.

Government who brought out a m ajor program and a major centr e for crime prevention and a major program for victims of crime. The centre for the homeless, I think that must be the .Main Street Centre. That is a project that we had been work ing on with Main Street Centr e for over a year devel oping the desig n, doing a su rvey and identifying the needs. Onc e again, they are con tinuing that.

Of course. the bigg est one, the day care which they are talking about as a priority was develop ed, designed and impiemented by this Government where we brought in the best model, the best day care system in North America. All I hope, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is that, in doing what they are going to do to day care, they do not dismantle it and they do not go back to the dark ages to a system that everybody knows will not provide the same quality of care as the one that is alr eady developed . A Comm ission of Inquir y into the Admin istration of Justice on Aboriginal People in Manitoba has been launched.

They are right, it was launched , but by us. When you look at all of those things, including freed om of information, now they came out with a big band saying, "We are prociaiming freedom of information An Honourable Member: in three months. Ms. Hemphill: In three months, yes. They have done the job in three months because we had done the thr ee or four or five years that was required to get it to that point before. We had 100 years of records that had to be document ed and we had to prepare the access file.

That meant every department haq to. jdentify what they �ad ,arid how they, were going to iden tify it for the access guide, and that ali took time. I just want to rem ind them that, while we are pleased that they proclaimed it, we did the work . We could have speeded it up. lt did take a little longer than we wanted to because the job was so massive it was beyond anything that. anybody imagin ed when we began the job. we could iiave hired people and brought them in from outside arid speeded it up, I. suppose. We then would ha ve had a bureaucracy within a bureaucracy.

We would have spent addition?ll money but, more im portant ly, the civil servants would not have understood the system . They would not have developed it. The y would not know what was in their department, they would not kn ow how to access it, and it was important that the people who have to use the system were the ories who were involved ih designing it for their department. I want to spend a bit of time talking about d ay care.

I asked a couple of questions today in the House that gave us a clear ind ication that there is not much happenin � in day care now, or it does not seem that they know much about what they want to do right now. But there are some very real dangers in some of the changes that we suspect they might want to make. They have been very clear in saying that they bel ieve day care should be provided by both non- profit and profit, for profit day care, that they belie ve that private commercial day care should be able to receive some of the same funds that the non-pr ofit day care system does.

That flies in the face of all of the stud ies and ail of the research that has been done, not by us but by others, that clearly shows, every study shows that the non-pr ofit day care system is the one that provide s the best quality day care. We have .a recent Senate study that tells us that we should not be spend ing money on commer cial, private

Friday, July 29, 1988 day care. This is what it says. lt recommends that provinc es concentr ate growth in the non-pr ofit area because commitment to qual ity child care is most likely to come from those who have an interest in childr en which is independent of their livelihood. If you are interested in creating a real child car e system , use your energy and your mon ey for the non-pr ofit structure. They recommended against funding new com mercial services through Capital opera ting gr ants or fee subsid ies. We know that the difference in the quality of care comes in a numb er of ways.

We kno w that commer cial, pri vate day car e has mor e trouble mee ting their licensing standards. By that, I do not want to sugge st that there are not some good com mercial day cares out there, or there are not some private day cares providing every bit as good a quality of day care as are some of the non-pr ofit day care. But we kno w that they have far more, in general , trou ble meeting the licensing standards, by far, than do the non-pr ofit .

They hire the minimum numb er of required trained personnel, while the non-pr ofit system trie s to have as many trained, qualified personnel in their day care as possible. That is why I asked the question tod ay, sinc e they have to meet the two-thirds now, we kn ow that the private system is very adeq uately under the req uirements, in spite of equal access, and no cost tr aining programs, 50 percent of com mercial centr es will not meet the training requirements, and 80 percent will not have qualified dir ectors by the deadlin e of October '8 8. So we have a serious issue.

If we had lots of mone y, I probably would not mind giving some money to the private day cares, but we need 16,0 00 spaces and we do not have enough mone y. We cannot afford to put it into the hands of private operators, where some of that money will go for profit, where if they fund the existing 4,000 commercial spa ces that will be money that does not go into creating new spaces, where the adequ acy of the staff training is seriously under that which is requir ed in the non-pr ofit system . All of those point to the fact that we should be doing everything we can to maintain the existing system .

In Li beral Ontario, they have a com mercial day care system. Most of their day care is commercial. Do you kn ow what they are doing? They are not conti nuing it because they know now that the non-pr ofit system is the best system . They made a comm itment, when the federal Govern ment annou nced its program , that they would fund no more private day care systems, and that all new programs and new day care spaces would go to non -profit. An Honourable Member: Run by the parents. Ms. Hemphill: Run by the parents, the point is made. I want to make that point because that concerns me a lot - but run by the parents.

Why on earth would we, where we have establis hed in our province a recognized qualified, the best qualified day care system in, not the countr y but North America, why would we want to be retrogressive, go back into the dark ages and start funding on the other basis? But I also want to say that I have trouble understan ding the Liberal position on this, because I 199 would bel ieve that the Liberal position would be to suppo rt non-pr ofit day care. I have a quote here, I think, from the Leader of the Opp osition (Mr s. Carstairs) where she is opposed to two thing s.

She is opposed to salary enhancement grants, and tha t horrifies me because most of the women who are working in day care are underpai d. They are women, and that is one of the groups tha t we would want to be improving. My position has always been that it is the child who I would like to see the subsidy go to, not the day care centre. I am not conc erned about the centre per se, nor would I provide them with salary enhanc ement grants, but I would provide subsid ies for childr en because that after all is who is in care. *

(1120) The Acting Speaker (Harold Gilleshammer): You have until 11 :29 a. m., 10 min utes. Ms . Hemphill: Ok ay. Mr. Acting Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has gone on record as supporting com mercial private day care, which means that she is � in tune with the policy and the pri ority and the dir ection � of the Cons ervat ive Go ve rnment, and I do no t und ers tand that. I have a gr eat deal of di ffi cu lty unde rstanding that.

I just want to say finally about day care that I hope that this is one of those times when they will not just follow the ide ology of the priv ate sec tor can do everything as well, because they cannot care for childr en as well when there is a profit motiv e involved . They cannot. They canno t worry about making money and caring for childr en at the same time, and we want our money to go into the non-pr ofit day care system. This Throne Speech is as interesting for what is not in it as for what is in it.

There is a glaring hole in this Throne Speech that I wish to point out to the Mem bers opposite just in case any of them are interested .

When I talked about Folklorama and we were giving a salute to all of the volunteers who put on our Folklorama, I made the point that in our province now over half of the people come from an ethnocultur al community, and our mi norities now make up the majority of our province. � Nowhere in this Throne Speech anywhere was there � any mention of over one-half of the population of our province, people who have come to this province, who have come to this country, who have some opportun ities but who are also missing out in terms of accessibility and opportun ity in many areas.

On multiculturalism, there was nothing that ind icated to the ethno-cultur al com mun ity that they cared about giving them accessi bil ity to jobs, to trai nin g opportu nit ies, to educa tion. There was nothing in this Throne Speech that dealt with the issue or ind icated they recognized that the issue of accred itation for people who have gained professional certification in other countries was going to be consid ered and going to be addressed .

There was nothing in the Throne Speech that dealt with contract complia nce that would make people who are gett ing large contracts from Government hire on an Affirmative Action basis and open up hiring and job opportuni ties for people of their com muni ty or for all of the people of our province.

Friday, July 29, 1988 There was nothing there for the promotion of heritage langua ge programs, some thing that the ethnic com mun ity sees as a basic need to help them maintain their cultur e. I think that the ethnocultur al com munit y, the people from all of those different cultur al groups, are going to see there is nothing in this Throne Speech for them . I think a lot of them are maybe going to be disappointed and maybe some of them are not, because they never were impo rtant before.

But in the elec tion, they were promis ed that they would be im portant this time, that they were a high priority and programs to give them equal access and equal opportunities would be a priori ty. There is another glaring hole and I think that is in the area of health care. We have got one of the biggest crisis and challenges facing us in the health care system of any challenge facing any Govern ment. All we see are White Papers, setting up networks, setting up Wh ite Papers, setting up studie s, and we see some movement in the area of AID S education, chemical abuse, the � mentally retard ed.

Those very few new in itiatives we , welcome, but where are the new initia tives that are going to move us away from the crisis that we presently face where, in the next decade, if something is not done to change the way we deliv er health care through high-cost institutional care, we will be spending, I think it is, about 90 percent in a decade? Ni nety percent of the provi ncial Bud get will be going to carry the cost of the health care system if we do not change the way we deliv er it.

We have to do education, we have to deal with lifestyles, we have to have preventativ e programs, we have to keep people out of high-cost institutions, look after them in their homes, look after them in commun ity based clin ics, and there is not one word in this Throne Speech that even ind icates the Government opposite kn ows there is a problem, let alone kno ws that the province is facing a serious seri ous crisis. I am not going to deal with the lack of an economic plan, as I have been discussing the lack of social services and economic jus tice plan in my speech.

I will � save that for the Budget, but I just want to say there 11' is not one in this Throne Speech.

There is no economic plan in this Throne Speech and, if they are able to ach ie ve any thing in t he way of impr ovements of programs, it will not be because of good management in the last three months. lt will not be because they have been able to find enough fat to trim and to tighten. lt will be because of the impr oved Canadian dolla r, because of the increased revenue coming from the federal Government, and it will be because of the red uced interest rate from the major deficit reduction carried out by this Govern ment. That is why they will be able to achieve some new ini tiatives, if they are able to.

I want to cl ose by quoting one of the Mem bers opposite. An Honourable Member: Which one? Ms. Hemphill: lt was the Mem ber for Ni akwa (Mr . Kovnats), poor soul. But in one of his speeches, when he was on this side, he said, "I know the former Mem ber, 200 yes, I kn ow what the Min ister of Fi nance is saying. You canno t have it both ways. But, Madam Speaker, I can have it both ways. I am in Opposition, and I can have it both ways." I want to say that, when they were on this side, they wanted to have it both ways. Now they are on that side, they want to have it all ways.

They want to del iver to the people of Manitoba a message which will get them ready for the elect ion that they think could come at any time so they want to have something for the rig ht-wing Conservatives. They want to out-l iberal the Li berals. They want to have something in the way of progressive social policy. That is what they are trying to do. The people of Manitoba are going to know that there is nothing in this Throne Speech, no plan, no dir ection, no vision, no mon ey, just promis es. Mr. Ed Helwer (Gimli): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I conside r it a very great honour to have the opportunit y of being a Mem ber of this House and giving this, my initial speech. First of all, I want to congr atulate the Speaker on his elect ion to the Speaker of this House and I am sure that he will bring to this office the distinction and the fairne ss it requir es. I also want to cong ratulate the Deputy Speaker, a man who I am sure will bring great honour to that posit ion. I also want to congratulate all Mem bers who were elected for the first time on April 26, and to the Mem bers who were re-elec ted .

I also want to cong ratulate the Mover of the Speech from the Throne, the Mem ber for Lac du Bon net (Mr. Praznik), and the Second er, the Mem ber for Min ned osa (Mr. Gill eshammer). Both of these Mem bers are a very good example of the stren gth of our Government. I would like to mention, as a new Mem ber, the fact that I have been very impr essed, and I think most suitably so, by the senior Memb ers of this House, senior in years of service. I really feel that the contribution made by these gentlemen in years of service to the people of Manitoba is sign ificant.

I can tell you that, in the three short months I have been here, I have come to appreciate more the great public contribution that they have made, and at the same time I can well imagine the personal sacrifices that they have made. I commend them for it, and I must say that those of us who are new Mem bers have very many worthwhile models and example s to follow in this House. l would be rem iss, Mr. Acting Speaker , if I did not pay tribu te at this time to the former ML A for Gimli, Mr.

John Buckla schuk, who repr esented this House for some six-and- a-half years, and I want to thank him for his contribution to the Gimli constit uenc y and to Manitoba, and I want to wish him well in his retirement . I should remark on the path that led me to this Chamber. I was first elected to the Village of Teulon Council in 19 69 and served until 19 74. After a three year absenc e, in 19 77, I again was elected to council and served until 19 80, and that year was elected mayor and served in that position until May of this year.

During the years on counci l, I spent nine years on our hospital board with five years as chairman, and served eight years on the board of South lnterlake Planning Districts,

Friday, July 29, 1988 and various other boards and comm issions. I think this experience I have gained in mun icipal politics puts me in good stead to serve in this Legis lature. I am glad to see many other Mem bers who were former councillors, mayors or reeves . I unders tand that it is customary for new Mem bers giving their first speech in this House to extol! the virtues of their constituenc y, and I am cert ainly pleased to have that opportunit y. Before I get to that, I want to thank the electors of Gimli for sending me here, and I can assure them that I will represent them to the best of my abilit y. (Mr. Speaker in the Chair .) *

(1130) The Gimli constituency goes right around the southern part of Lake Wi nnip eg and in clu des the Rural Mun icipaliti es of St. Clements, part of St. Andr ews, part of the R.M. of Rockwood, the Rural Muni cipality of Gimli, the LGD of Armstr ong, the towns of Gimli, Wi nnip eg Beach and Teulon. The Rural Muni cipalit y of St. Clements runs from Grand Beach in the north to the boun dary of East St. Paul in the south, the Red River on the west and the Rural Mu nicipality of Brokenhe ad on the east. This part of my constituenc y has some of the finest beaches in Manitoba with some of the finest sand.

For those of you who are not aware or not familiar with the beaches on the east side of Lake Wi nnip eg, the sand at Grand Beach, Beaconia and Patricia Beach is some of the fine st in North America. Because of the northwest prevailing winds, it takes the sand out of the water and piles it up in large sand dune s which are unique in Manitoba and form some of the best sand beaches in Canada. So it is the beaches on the east side of Lake Wi nnip eg and Wi nnip eg Bea ch, Gimli, Arness, Camp Morton on the west side. Tourism is one of our major ind ustries in my constituenc y.

Tourism is an ind ustry that is one of our largest empl oyers and has the best potential for growth. Plans for a tourist hotel in Gimli are well under way. With this new facil ity and a new marina at Wi nnip eg Beach and other new facilities that are planned, tourism is going to be one of our la rgest growth areas, one of our largest emplo yers, and an opportun ity to be the largest ind ustry in terms of invest ment and providing new jobs. The Rural Mun icipal ity of Gimli celebr ated its centen nial in 1987, and is one of only two areas in Manitoba that had a republic, the Republic of Icel and.

The other one, of course, was the Republic of Portage la Prairie. Agricultur e is one of the main indus tries in my constitue ncy and it is one of the main sources of income for many of my constituents. We have in my constituency some of the fine st farm land in Manitoba. I think that the ln terlake and the Gimli cons titu ency probably prod uce every agricultur al product that is prod uced in this whole provi nce, every type of product such as strawberries, sugar beets, potatoes, oilseeds, grain and corn. I should also like to mention livestock.

Livestock plays a very important part of our economy in the lnt erlake. 201 Stock growers in our area have been winning honours at the various fairs throughout this province and for many years they have also won many awards and they will continue to do so. I think it is to their credit and to the cred it of the qual ity of the livestock that is being prod uced there. We have a thriving hog ind ustry with many good operations in the Gimli constituen cy. We have the largest turkey hatchery in Manitoba located near Gunton.

We also have the largest goose-processing plant in Canada, if not in the whole of North Am erica. Just recently, Nor thern Goose have brought in some breed ing stock from Norway to improve the quality of the geese they produc e and to impr ove the feed ratio and to make these geese more com petitiv e with other types of fowl. Perhaps, Mr. Speaker, I should mention the dr ought and the devastating effect it is going to have on agricu ltur e and on the towns and vil lages in my constituenc y. Agricu lture is the back bone of our rural economy.

If the farmers do not have any crop and do not have any income, the busine sses do not have any income eith er. So this drought is going to affect everyo ne, including the busine sses in the City of Wi nn ipeg. I have been in the agribusi ness in Teulon and the lnterlake area for 25 years, dealing with farmers, and have grown to have a great deal of respect for farmers and the honesty and hard work , but 1988 is going to be a year to remember because it is the poorest crop we have seen for many years.

Another way the drought is affecting our constituency is the fact that the water table has dropped some 25 feet in some areas and caused many wells to go dry, and it is causing hardship to the people who have no water and have had to drill new wells and are looking at an expense in the area of $3,000 to $3,500. 00. We have many indus tries in the Gimli constitu ency that provide many jobs for our residents, such as the Seagram plant in Gimli, which is very important to that commu nity and to all of us in the lnterlake area.

This ind ustry was broug ht to Gimli by the late Derek Stefanson, Sr., when he was the M.P. for the Selkirk area. One of the reasons Seagram located in the Gimli area was because of the qualit y and the abunda nce of good water which is very important to that ind ustry. Seagram is an im portant ind ustry to all of Manitoba because of the grain they use such as corn from the Car man, Mi ami or Mor den areas. So I hope our Government can keep the tax on this product at a reasonable level so that this ind ustry can expand and grow, because Seagram has a plant that is modern with state-of-t he-art technology.

Other indus tries such as Charison's Turkey Hatchery and Northern Goose Processors are major empl oyers in my area, and I hope our Govern ment, with the help of the federal Go vern ment, can help pro vide the infrastructure that is needed so that this ind ustry can expand and gr ow and provide much ne eded emplo yment for our young people. Because the constituency of Gimli goes around th ree side s of the Town of Sel kirk, many of our residents find emplo yment in the Town of Selkirk in such indus tries

Friday, July 29, 1988 as the Manitoba Rolling Mills, the Steel Foundry, ABEX and many others. I was gl ad to see our fed eral Government, with the help of the Member for Selkirk lnterlake, Felix Holtmann, offer some assistance to the Manitoba Rolling Mills so that they could modernize and make working conditions better for their employees and to expand and grow. .. (11 40) We have many more industrie s in our constituency which provide jobs for our people, such as the rock quarries in the Gunton-Balmorai-Stonewall areas, which provide crushed limestone for many of our road projects in Man itoba and in Winnip eg.

In the Throne Speech, our Government talked about building a stronger economy. Some of the things that will help business is our commitment to unde rtake a phased removal of the payroll tax. Amendments will be introduced to restore balance to Manitoba's labour legislation. Protecting the rights of both workers and employers is essential to sound labour relations and amend ments will be proposed to the legislation governing final offer selection.

These and other things will be done to establish an economic climate that will encourage risk and reward ini tia tive so that our companies can grow and expand and provide much needed meaningful jobs, not make-work projects that just spoil good workers. In Wedn esday's Se lkir k Journal and ln terlake Spectator , the Member for Sel kirk (Mr s. Charles), criticized our Throne Speech for not doing enough for rural concerns. This is the furthest thing from the fact.

The programs we have to bols ter and en hance economic development and the quality of life in rural Manitoba are outlined in the Throne Speech, noting that one of the main goals on economic policy in the province should be to ensure balanced growth in all regions. The speech lists a great number of Government commitments of special interest to rural regions. These include programs to address urgent needs involving agriculture: roads, health care delivery, education, day care and rural policing. Special attention is given to the impact of dr ought conditions on farming communities.

The Speech says the Government: "In cooperation with the federal Government and the other prairie provinces . . . "will ". . . continue its efforts to work with farmers and communities to ease this period of difficulty." The Manitoba Government will dev elop " ... comprehensive rural development policies such as the creation of off-f arm income opportu nities through diversification . . .

"aimed at ensuring ". . . long-term stability in rural Manitoba." In addition, the Gov ernment ". . . will announce further action to help farmers meet the current challenge and protect the lon ger-term productive base of the . . . "agricultural sector. Something that is very important to the lnterlake area and other parts of Manitoba are the policies to serve long-term water needs through a comprehensive water strategy involving broad consultation with Manitobans and with the municipalit ies involved .

Through this 202 strategy, projects are expected to be ident ified that ". . . will help alleviate water shortages in times of drought." The Throne Speech welcomed the recent agreement, in principle, among ". . . all 10 provinces to join a National Red Meat Tripartite Plan for cattle, hogs and sheep." The Speech called it ". . . a major opportunity for Manitoba producers to regain and build upon their traditional strong performance in this sector." Mr.

Speaker, other rural initiatives outlined in the Throne Speech include new initiatives ". . . to attract and retain physicians and other specialized health care professionals in rural Manitoba, " a Hospital Program Review to identify ". . . centres of excel lence and especially leadership at the community hospital level." These are very important issues to us in the lnterlake area, in the Gimli constituency and, I am sure, to other parts of Manitoba. I have the distinction of having the new Selkirk Bridge in my constituency.

I must say it is a bridge that was needed and is needed but was built without the proper planning and research. This bridge was app roved and supported by the Member for Selkirk (Mrs. Charles) when she was on the Se lkirk Town Council but yet, in her reply to the Throne Speech, she criticized this bridge. As far as the new Lockport Bridge and the corridor is concerned, which the Member for Selkirk (Mrs. Charles) criticized, it is to replace the existing bridge which is in bad need of repair and has had weight restrictions for many years. Mr.

Speaker, it makes sense to plan roads and bridges far in advance of the actual construction date, especially along rivers because of the valuable property. I am proud to be a part of this Government that listens to people, and I want to commend the Minister of Highways (Mr. Driedger) and his department for doing an excellent job. Mr. Speaker, another important aspect of the Gimli constituency is that it is the former home of our Lieutenant-G overnor, George Johnson. As well, former Premier Ed Schreyer first represented the constituency of Brokenhead and encom passed the R.M. of St.

Clements, which is in the constituency of Gimli now. An Honourable Member: And Lac du Bonnet. Mr. Helwer: And Lac du Bonnet, right. The Liberal can didate in that election of 19 58 was my late father, Fred Helwer, who lost to Ed Schr eyer by some 30 or 40 votes. If the outcome of that election had been different, it certainly could have changed the history of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, I would like to address the Free Trade Agreement, the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement will be good for Canada and especially for Manitoba and western Canada.

Those who argue otherwise represent narrow self -in terests or exhibit a lack of historical perspe ctive. Inde ed, history shows that whenever tariff and non-tariff barriers are lowered there is a positive impact on trade, economic growth and employment.

Friday, July 29, 1988 Maybe the Free Trade Agreement is not perfect, but is certainly better than anything we have ever had. For one thing, it will shield Canada from acts of protectionism by the U.S. We will not escape all the calls for protection, but the deal will certainly minimize our exposure to a great fiasco of softwood lumber, fish, potash and hogs. Then there is the global context.

Canada is a player, and not just a small player, in a dynamic international economy, but with the emergence of trading blo cs in Europe and the Far East and the U.S. that threatens to lower the boom on imports, can Canada really afford to remain isolated? On the other hand, the growing reliance of many nations on the U.S. market can be used to Canada's advantage. These nations, including Japan, West Germany and South Korea are faced with protectionism in the U.S.

To get around the barrier, they can reroute their exports to the U.S. throughout third countries and thereby lower their bilateral trade imbalances with the U.S. Canada is the obvious choice as a site for nations like Japan and South Korea to build facilities whose output is destined for the U.S., and we in Manitoba are located in the ideal position. With our traffic to the south, we are in a location to be an excellent place for these companies to build and expand their facilities.

We have a literate, well-edu cated labour force, a society tolerant of ethnic, rel igious and cultural differences, abundant resources, well-de veloped capital marke ts and politi cal sta bilit y. The Free Trade Agreement could provide us with another inland port, that is at Minneapolis-St. Paul on the Mississippi River, and provide another option for shipping grain and other commodities, and receive phosphate fertilizer and other commodities from Florida and other areas to the south. Without the Free Trade Act, moreover, domestic firms may cut back on their plans to invest in Canada.

Faced with an uncertain trading relationship with the U.S., they may instead choose to invest directly in the U.S. and avoid the threat of import sanctions. *

(1150) There is also a generation aspect to the agreement against free trade. Most of those clamouring for the protectionism represent our older establis hed workers. They seek to preserve their interest at the expens e of younger people in the labour force who have the skills and attitudes to capitalize on the opportunities free trade would provide. Those agains t the free trade seem to have no confidence in Canada's abili ty to survive. Those few pes simis ts should not be allowed to determine Canada's future. Canadians have shown themselves to be bright, ingenious, adoptive and entrepreneu rial.

We need to sharpen our focus on these areas as they become increasingly competitive. We cannot isolate ourselves. Clearly, our opportunities are mostly greater with the free trade than without it. Whether we choose to grasp these opportunities and make the best of them will determine the economic health of this province. On August 12, 13 and 14 the western Canadian Baseball championships, this is the bantam group, will be held in the Gimli constituency in Teulon. 203 An Honourable Member: This year? Mr. Helwer: Yes, this year, this August.

We have the facilities there, a park, baseball diamonds that we are very proud of. These are world-cla ss ball diamonds. We will be able to hold this tournament and will also provide -( Int erjection)- Good. Terrific. This tournament will provide a tourist booth to our area and to the whole lnterlake. Also, this will provide some tourist potential for areas even such as Winnip eg and other areas of Manitoba. So I think it is a very worthwhile project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for this opportunity this morning.

Mrs. lva Yeo (Sturgeon Creek): First of all, I would sincerely like to express my own congratulations to you on your own appointment. I concur that you are most deserving and I am certain that you will exercise the element of fairness and discreteness that is essential to serving all Members in your present position. I would be remiss if I did not also congratulate my � colleague, the Deputy Speaker (Mr. Minenko). Last � week, I had cong ratula ted him for that par ticular position.

I would also at this time like to publicly thank the individuals in the constituency of Sturgeon Creek, the constituency in which I have lived for over 20 years, the constituency that I am delig hted to live in. I would like to thank my friends and neighbours for the supp ort and encouragement that they have given to me in the past and are continuing to send my way. For those of you here in the Chamber who are unaware of this charming residential area in the Metro Winnip eg part of the Province of Manitoba, I hope you will indu lge me for a few moments of description.

The western boundary of the constituency of Sturgeon Creek runs along Sturgeon Road, the road which begins at Portage Avenue and extends as a sort of inner highway past lnkster Boulevard. The southern boundary of Sturgeon Creek extends along Portage Avenue eastward, past but not including the very beautiful Woodhaven Park, dips southward and then follows the 4 Assinib oine River until it comes to the footbridge at Assinib oine Park. Stu rgeon Creek encompa sses many important landmarks of Metro Winni peg.

I hesitate to priorize but I suppose one that I think of most frequently, perhaps because I watched it being built a number of years ago, and I am referring to Grants Old Mill. This very charming building is a replica of the very first water mill west of the Great Lakes, rebuilt replica of the original Grants Mill that was built first in 1829 and reconstructed in 1975.

I invite any of you who have not had the opportunity to visit the Mill to pack a picnic lunch some Sunda y afternoon, stroll along the banks of the creek, pick up some stone-g round whole wheat flour from our own Manitoba wheat or, as I did a couple of weeks ago, a couple of bags of stone-ground triticale, again from our own Manitoba farmlands. The mill is located on the grounds of the Grace General Hospital which, as many of you know, is run by the Salvation Army. The grounds are beautifully kept -

Friday, July 29, 1988 and the hospital has an outstanding reputation for both educating student nurses and for giving caring service to the patients within. Also located on this site and run by the Salvation Army is Linden view home, a home for unwed mothers, in which these young women may reside, may attend classes which, by the way, are administrated by the St. James-Assi niboia School Division, may step across the grounds to the hospital to have their babie s and may then return, if they so choose, with their infants to complete their school year.

I would be remiss if I did not include in the description the recently opened Living Prairie Museum. The desire of those who conceived this idea was to preserve a portion of the living prairie for posterity so that we Man itobans could wal k through part of God's unadulterated land, witne ss our provincial fl ower, the crocus, in the spring to observe a number of species, on occasion to see some wildli fe - rabb its, gophers, � even deer - while walking in the expanse that has , being preserved for all of us to enjoy.

If I were to follow Ness Avenue eastward from the Living Prairie Museum, it would cross the area where many of our Canadian Armed Forces personnel live for a portion of time perhaps while they are stationed in Winnip eg. The air base, the drill halls are located just north of Ness, between Whytewold Road and Sharp Boulevard, and of course many of the runways from our own Wi nnip eg In ternational Airport are in close proximity to Ness Avenue.

Because of the In ternational Airport, a rather new development known as Murray Park houses such pla ces as the Air Canada Maintenance, our Hudson's Bay Warehouses, Boeing of Canada, and other manufacturing sites too numerous to mention today.

Deer Lodge Centre of course is another familiar landmark perhaps more meaningful and more familiar to senior citizens of our province, being that it was once called Deer Lodge Hospital and was created specifically to care for those men and women who were � fortuna te enough to return home following the � des truction of the wars. but who are in need of continuing medical service. Parts of this building ha ve been reconstructed, have actually been torn down and rebuilt totally. lt has been renamed Deer Lodge Centre and still has as its priority those individuals who are veterans of the great wars.

But included as residents and as patients within the walls of the centre one will now find perhaps a broader variety of individuals. I have to add that Deer Lodge Centre has always been a meaningful point to me. When I was at the tender age of one, my own lather, Dr. Arthur W.S. Hay, then a surgeon at the Winnip eg Clinic, felt overwhelmed to give service to his country which was at a state of war, despite the fact that he was responsible for a wife and three very young children.

I am told that he was an enormously patriotic man who, as I have said, loved his country and felt also the tremendous responsibility to serve. I can recall only once - I supp ose I was a child of about three - when he returned home on leave and I was given the privilege of visiting the then Deer Lodge Hospital with him on one occasion.

Un fortun ately , my lat her ga ve the 204 supreme sacrifice for his country and is buried in Brookwoods Cemetery just outside of London, England, a site that I have visited on three occasions, and I am delig hted to say is kept in immaculate condition, still being visited with great frequency by the young school children who live in the town close by. • (1 200) I raise the story of my father for two reasons - one, to tie in with the description of Deer Lodge Centre, a spot that I have visited since that initial time in my gr owing years on several occasions, one as an entertaining Winnip eg Blue Bomber act many, many years ago, as a student nurse, and later as a practising nurse, and twice now as part of the group to honour the sod turning followed by the opening of a portion of the building.

I also know that my minimal recollection of my father in the multitude of stories that I have heard from a great variety of individuals, including just the other day from the current Lieutenant-Go vernor about his outstand ing cit izensh ip, his overwhelming commitment to serve, led to a large part to my desire to serve as well and why I am here in this Assembly today. My desire is not to give for my country and my province but rather to give my life to my country and my province for a short while or a long while, hopefully anyway. I do feel an almost overwhelming sense of responsibility.

I do feel a very real sensation to be fair, to use exceedingly good judgment in decision making, to cautiously weigh the pros and cons of specific concerns in order to reach the most appropria te conclusion that would benefit my fellow Manitobans most effectively. I am well aware that all Members have a right to deba te and participate in the decision making of all issues brought to the House, but I obviously !eel my greatest responsibil ity lies in the area of education, being that I have been declared critic for that particular discipline. I would like to thank the Leader of the Opposition (Mrs.

Carstairs) for placing that faith in me and I certainly promise that I shall endeavour to fulfil! that trust to the greatest of my abil ity. My background has been predominantly in the field of health and education. I am a registered nurse, a grad uate of the then Winnip eg General Hospital and now Health Sciences Centre School of Nursing, and past-pre sident of the Alumni Association of that very fine agency. That makes two of us here in the Chamber today. Actually one- third of all the female Members in the House today have once practised that profession.

I nursed for a short while upon graduation and then att ended the Un iversity of Sa skatchewan where I received my certificate in teaching and supervision, and require one-half credit more to achieve my certificate in adult education. I have been a volunteer teacher with the Manitoba Association of Children with Learning Disabil ities. I have taken a fitness instructor's course - do not laugh - and subsequently taught several classes at the St. Ja mes YM CA. Mind you , the individuals I taught were 65 years young and older, and

Friday, July 29 , 1988 I must admit I had to work very, very dil igently to keep even one step ahead of them. I taught nursing education at the Health Scienc es Centre, the St. Bonif ace School for Practical Nur ses, and Red River Commun ity Col lege. Most recently , I was the Registrar of the LP.N. School at St. B. and the Assistant Chairman of Student Affairs for both the LP. N. and RN. schools at the same hospitaL My political career began when I was asked to run as a School Trustee in St. Jame s-Assinib oia in 1980.

I am well aware of many of the issues and concerns of educ ators and ed ucated in the school syste m, as well as in the post-second ary setti ngs. My husband and I have four young childr en, three of whom have attended or are attending the Univ ersity of Manitoba, and one who has been at the Univ ersity of Wi nnip eg. We have concerns with funding to all un iversities for the conti nuing qualities of the prog rams offered at these sites as well as the facili ties that house these faculties, not merely for those that are at risk of losing their accred itation, such as the only one mentioned in the Throne Speech.

If I will be permit ted to reflect for a moment upon my vision for education in Man itoba, to do a little star gazing, as it were, at this time, I would like to outline just a few of my own personal prior ities. At the risk of sounding too simp listic, the need to ensur e and enrich the basic three A's is very apparent. Today, we may well refer to the thr ee C's, commun ication skills, compo sition, computation in computer abili ties. All are essen tial components of beginning teaching to our childr en in the elementar y schools. Each of us is aware that we are living in a highly technical world tod ay.

Perhaps in part because of these changes, many - parents, post-sec ond ary ed ucators, empl oyees in the busine ss commun ity, high-school graduates themselv es - are concerned because of dec reased abil ity in these basic skills. Several university professors have told me that they are appalled at the arithmetic, spelling and composition difficulties their students demons trate. I taught for alm ost 20 years at the pos t-seco nd ary level and witne ssed the same phenomen on. What can Man itoba ed ucation do in conc ert with our educ ators and educ ation planners to alleviate this large and real concern.

If we are not part of the solution , we are indeed part of the problem. Another current thrust that I have been following closely is the move towards mains treaming of our childr en with challeng ing needs. To be sure, this integration of the students with mental and phy sical handic aps has merit in deed , but should all the se childr en spill into the so-called ordinarily classroom? Should the segregated classroom and/or school be elim inated entir ely? Wha t kind of support services will be made available to our teachers who will be req uired to accept this chall enge.

Education and Commun ity Services must work cl osely to ensure a smo oth transition process from the more segregated to the integr ated approach. And what about our gifted you ng people? Are they not also students with very challenging needs indeed? 205 With the numb er of busine sses closing down and ind ividuals finding thems elves unemp loyed , the need for retr aining has become very pronounc ed. Com puter operators, computer repair men and women , fast food workers, plastics craftsmen , to name but a few, are all areas of rapid growth.

Are there adequate cent res with shor t effective cou rses to provide the ess ential education for job re-entry? What about literacy program s, with over five mi llion ill iterate Canadians, 24 percent of adults in Manitoba. I was very pleased to see in the Throne Speech that at least a task force will be establis hed to develop long range strateg ies to add ress the li teracy needs of Man itobans. I was also rather amused when I saw that because I am aware that, in the federal Throne Speech in 1986, a similar task force was proposed , and I have not heard a thing coming from that particular task force.

Many are anxious to learn of the findings and subseq uent recommenda tion from the Hi gh School Review Comm ittee, myself included. The dipl oma, that piece of paper that the high school graduate recei ves should tell the emplo yer or the post-second ary educator much mo re explicitly what tha t you ng pers on's beginning capabil ities may be. We learn statistics from the high school review such as, of 100 childr en who start kinder garten, how many are actually expected to grad uate from high school successfully?

I am certain that the report from this commit tee will be one of the first received by the new Minis ter. *

(1210) During my eight years as a School Trustee, the question of rede finition of division boun daries surfaced periodically . In the recent months, this topic has been raised by mem bers of the city council once again. If there could be better deliv ery of educational services, more cost-ef fective admin istra tion, perhaps a bound aries review com mis sion mi ght be a logi cal enactm ent.

When the di visions in Manitoba ha ve as low as 820 students, and some lower actually, but the 820 student population is served by 11 trustees, to � 32,000 served by nine trustees, one must wond er. � On the urban school boards, there are 79 elected officials, 496 provincial ly, but 79 school trustees to serve over 103 Metro Wi nni peg public school students.

If not a review of bound aries, at le ast could Mani toba ed ucation look at ensuring that students in one school division req uiring or reques ting a service unavailable in his or her particular division might have easier access to that specific program or service? There are many facets to the bound ary review issue far broader than merely shifting lines on a map or shuffling num bers of students, teachers, support staff, or inde ed electorate. The federal proposal to change The In come Tax Act is of great concern.

Manitoba teachers have worked di ligently to make it possible for their mem bers to retir e without penalty at the age of 55. The society has contribu ted over $3 milli on to achieve this goal. The benefits to both the labour force and to the education of our young people is without dispute. Many school divisions in our province have serious student decl ine -

Friday, July 29, 1988 and, therefore, there are but a few new Faculty of Education graduates finding employment. The turnover of teachers in some divisions is mini mal. The mix ture of the wisdom of the experience with the enthusia sm of the new, some thing simila r to what is found in the House tod ay, is of a great value to provide for the desirable balance. The female teachers who have left their careers for parenting purposes are penaliz ed to an even gr eater deg ree. I am certa in tha t the Honourable Min ister of Education (Mr . Derkach) and the Honour able Min ister of Labour (Mr .

Conn ery) will respo nd to the federal tax reform recommenda tion, if they have riot alr eady done so. I would be remiss if I did not spend just a few mom ents stating my own particular conc erns for an issue that has been circulating for a long long period of time.

If you were all constituents of Stu rgeon Creek, I bet you would recogn ize that I am talking about the bri dge. � There have been several proposals dating back, I � beli eve, to the late 19 50s with regard to the possibili ty of building some sort of bridge linkin g the south end of Mor ay Street with the north end of Haney Str eet , or some such other Charleswood location depe ndin g on the year the study was don e. Many of the residents agree that perhaps some sort of a link might be advantageous.

But With this latest proposal of a fairly massive corridor systeni and a six-lane superst ructure, the ilk and Ire of many of the residents of Moray Str eet , Assinibo ine Cr escent, etc., has certainly been raised . From a provincial point of view, I would think that the Min ister of Envir onment (Mr . Conne ry) should be giving careful consideration to this proposal . I must admit I was very reliE!Ved wh�n I attended the com muni ty commit tee meeting just last week to hear that that particular grou p unani mously rejected the cur rent proposal, but i shall be following eagerly the next

chapter in this ongoing saga. At this point, I would like to thank the Members of the Legislative Assembly or those .of you who remair i for your indulg ence. I learned long ago tha t the � Memb ers on the opposite side of the House are experts � at shooting from the lip. I learned just last week and this week that, in order to survive in the House, one must realize that an indi vidual gets up to speak, nobody listens, and then everybody is supposed to disagree.

I am looking forWard to the next few weeks, sitting in the House, to the next possibly several months in the main Opposition Party and would hope that in this particular capacity, we may serve the collectiv e people of Manitoba in a responsible, sensitiv e manne r. I am certainly looking forward in the not too far distant future with our own competent thought-fi lled Leader with that voice of di stinction as the First Minis ter, accompan ied by this particular group of 19, plus additional northern, rural and urban Liberal ML As, when our location in the House will be that of one facing westward. Thank you. Hon.

James Downey (Minister of Northern Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I was consideri ng ma ybe asking if the House consider it be 12 :30, but maybe it would be a 206 good opportun ity to get started today and we can conclu de the remarks on Monda y. Tuesday? Tuesday. The Legislatu res are very very powerful places and can do great things. They can change Mondays to Tuesdays and all kinds of things like that. I say how pleased I am today to stand in the Manitoba Legislature on this great day in July of 19 88 as Minis ter of a Government which I have worked very hard to get to be in.

Far too many years have passed since I have sat ori this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, years which have been very difficult, ones which as a positive person have fou nd very di ffi cUlt to be negat ive as one sometime s has to be in Opposition.- (Int erjection) - I thin k probably we would be better to stay with Friday today. lt is Monda ys that we can change to Tuesdays you see, not Frida ys.

As I was ind icating, it is very difficult to sit in Opposition and put in years of trying to tell what we felt were a Government that were not prepared to listen , and far too many examples of that are on the record as to not listening to the people of Manitoba, whether it was their record of handling the Crown corporations, whether it was their record of handling the financial affairs of the province in deali ng with the borro wing of money abroad, far too many areas they would not listen to the Opposition. There is a real meaningful role for the Oppos ition.

I am sure that the 19 new Mem bers of the Liberal Party will have the opportun ity for many years to learn that role and I wish them well in carrying it out. I do say it is some what refreshing to have them in the Chamber, I think, with positive ideas, new ideas and positive ideas, not so far to the left as the New Democr ats, probably further to the right than the present-da y Conservatives . We wili see what kind of a mix comes out of it, because I do belie ve the people of Manitoba have given us as legisla tors - the people of the North wanted the NDP, and lo and behold they got it.

The people of the south and the ru ral parts of the area wanted the Cons ervatives, anti that is what they got. The people of the city were determined to have the Li beral Party, and that is what they g ot. Our manda te is to make it work. I tel l, you with the Premier (Mr . Filmon) and the Cabi net and the fine caucus that we have, I can guarantee that we will make it work for a long long tim e. The Throne Speech, which I should have a copy of here somepla ce - I get so many files I am going to have to get somebody in to start looking after them, but anyway we will try and get a go at it here.

As Min ister responsible for Northern and Native Affairs, I have to say I am extr emely proud and pleased to accept that responsi bility. I am extremely proud and ple ased to see you as a neig hbouring colleague as the Sp eaker of the Assem bly. My colle agues who I have sat with before, I look forward to work ing with them as Govern ment. And I do look forward , as I say, to the Mem bers of the Opposition contri buting in a positive way to the betterment of Manitoba.

One cannot expect a lot of posit ive ideas to come from the New Dem ocrats who have had far too many years to devastate this pr ovince and to ruin a lot of good oppor tunit ies that we had, whether it is in the North, whether it is in hydro,

Friday, July 29, 1988 whatever it may be. Their best ability was to spend mone y, to tax people and to not listen to the kind of dir ection the people wanted to go. Enough about that, I have had far too many years of speak ing negativ ely. Now it is time to talk posit ively about what the Go vernment of Manitoba is going to do. * (1 220) In No rthern Affairs and Nativ e Affairs portf olio, along with the other Crown corporations tha t I have the responsi bility of looking after, I say this and I say it particularly to the Mem ber for Thom pson (Mr .

Ashton) who for some strange reason feels that, if you are from the south part of the provi nce, you canno t look after some thing in the north, or if you are from the north you cannot look after some thing from the south or the east or the west. I ask him to take a look around him, in fact , right across the aisle. I believe the Member for Churchill (Mr. Cowan) comes from the southern part of this countr y - I'm sorry, from North America, not particularly from Canada but origina ted in the Un ited States.

Is he ques tioning the ability of his colleague to look after the constituents of Chur chi ll because he does not happen to come from Mani toba originally or he hap pened to live in some other part of the countr y south of tha t particular jurisdiction? I say tha t is not being responsi ble. However, again back to the positiv e side, I jus t thought I wou ld bring that to the attention of the Ml A for Thomps on.

In fact , I am qui te prepared to lay before this Assembly, as the Min ister of No rthern Affairs, the amount of ti mes that I have visited the North sinc e I have been elected and appoi nted as Min ister. I think I have been in Thom pson more ti mes than the Mem ber has been in the last two-an d-a-half months. Wit hin four days of being appoi nted , I had the privilege to be at a graduation of the social work gradua tes out of Thomps on.

I was extremely proud to be there with tho se graduating students because, I tell you, the most im portant thing we have in Ma nitoba, whether you are nor th, south, east or west, are the people, particularly the young people and particularly the need to give them the same oppor tuni tie s tha t you and I had as you ng people in Manitoba - the op portunity for a good job, the opportunity for the services that we req uir e as a society at large. lt is our resp onsi bility and we will carry out tha t manda te to gi ve th ose opportunit ies to the young people.

I tell you it is deplorable, the conditions that were left for the Conservative Government and the supporting liberal Party in Ma nitoba to clean up in northern Ma nitoba after the New Democratic admin istration. Sha mef ul! Sha mefu l! Rates of unemplo yment of 80 percent to 90 percent - wou ld you belie ve that? lt is not coming from me; it is coming from those many communiti es tha t I have visite d in the Nor th.

Tha t is who it is coming from. 1t is not coming from a new Minis ter. lt is coming from those dedicated hard-working communi ty leaders in the North who are tired of being told that the New Democ ratic Party was their answer. Five ti mes in Thompson, since I was appointed as Min ister, I have visited the commun ities of The Pas, of Flin Flon , of Churchill, Sherridon. let me stop on 207 Sherridon for a mi nute because we have had a communi ty that was almost devastated by the former admin istra tion. We had continua l visits by the mayor of that communit y, wanting what?

A road , 70 kilometers of road to get to their commun ity where there is a new gold mine operating. Yes, the y wanted a road so that they could comm unic ate with the rest of society and the .peo ple who were work ing in that commun ity would feel as if they could move in and out. They were de vastated by the lack of ac tion by the former ad min istrat ion. We have already gone to work and provided some road work and activity. We have commit ted funds to clean up some of the water problems that they have as far as purity is concerned . We care about the North and are commit ted to develop the North. Mr.

Jerry Storie (Fiin Flon): On a point of order . ins truct the Mem ber for Arthur (Mr. Downey) to abide by the Rules of the House and not cast aspersions on others and not, Mr. Speaker, attempt to distort the jl facts. I would ask whether the Mem ber for Arthur would , be prepared to entertain a ques tion. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The Honour able Mem ber for Flin Flon (Mr . Storie) does not have a point of order. Mr. Downey: Mr. Speak er, I am more than prepared to an swer a question from the Mem ber for Flin Flon (Mr . Storie).

We have 40 mi nutes every day to an swer questions and he has not seen fit to ask me one yet. Why all of a sudde n is he so anxious to ask me a question? Why now is the priority to ask a question of northern Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, let me continue. He will have weeks and weeks and weeks to ask me questions in this leg islature, and I invite him to do so. Sherr idon, a fine commun ity with a new gold mine and an opportun ity for growth, we will do everything we can to help that commun ity grow.

I have to say as well, and this reminds me of an opportun ity that I had and the uniqu e opportun ity to take my legislative assistant with me and a new colleague, Parker Bu rrell from Swan River. He is a fine gentleman and knows � the North probably better than anyone else from the � former admin istration, who should have known what it was all about, who pretend to be the great saviours of the north. I also had the opportunity to have my son , Ryan, with me who had a trem endous opportun ity to see really what is going on. I speak to the ed ucators, our Min ister of Education (Mr . Derkach), and

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	34-1-7
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	34th 1st hansardpdf 7.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	f88dffa6050a11e5ef72383390245f950fb2e681

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