Third Session, 42nd Parliament

(2022) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Tuesday, October 25, 2022

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 237

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

B.C. Agriculture Day

I. Paton

P. Alexis

Tony Cescon and outdoor education classes for

secondary students

B. Stewart

Business Excellence Awards in Richmond

K. Greene

Apple season and fruit industry

D. Ashton

Action on sexual violence in hockey

G. Lore

Oral Questions

Health care system use of nurses from private

agencies

K. Falcon

Hon. A. Dix

S. Bond

Communications on COVID-19 in schools

S. Furstenau

Hon. A. Dix

Administrative costs and issues in health care

system

T. Stone

Hon. A. Dix

R. Merrifield

Orders of the Day

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 36 — Health Professions and Occupations Act

(continued)

M. Lee

J. Rice

Hon. M. Dean

Question of Privilege (Reservation of

Right)

S. Furstenau

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 25, 2022

The House met at 10:04 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: M. Dykeman.

[10:05 a.m.]

Introductions by Members

Hon. L. Popham: Today, in the province of British Columbia, has been officially

declared B.C. Ag Day. We are just so thrilled to have a number of amazing

people that come from the agriculture industry here to speak to so many of

us in the House.

Last night the B.C. Ag Council hosted an incredible reception that I

think most of us in this chamber attended. It’s known to have the best

selection of snacks and treats, and we enjoyed the hospitality. I’d like to

thank them for that.

In the chamber today, we have got some special guests. We have

Kimberly Ross, Bryce Gulicker, Humraj Kallu, Andries Quik, Hannah Wilms,

Craig Cherrett, Kelly Coughlin, Heather Stretch, Eva-Lena Lang, Jack DeWit,

Bill Zylmans, Angela Groothof, Steve Froese, Deep Brar, Peter Simonsen,

Corne Quik, Tristyn MacLeod and Amy Dhanjal.

Thank you so much for attending today. Many of us have meetings with

you. We’re looking forward to each and every one of them. Thanks for

everything you do.

Hon. H. Bains: Today I would like to welcome guests from the United Steelworkers, who

are joining us in the House. They will be meeting with many of us, almost

all of us, later today and tonight.

Before I name them all, I just want to say a couple of words about

them. This is the union that I spent my entire working life, 32 years of

them. This is the union where I learned to stand up and not stand idly by

when injustice was being delivered to the workers and other people. They

showed me how to advocate on behalf of people who can’t advocate on their

behalf.

I just want to say that I owe a lot about my basic values to this

union, and many of them are in the House here today. They were my mentors,

and I just want to say thank you for all of the advice and the fight that

you gave me about injustice in this world.

In the House today is the newly elected district 3 director, Scott

Lunny. This is the largest geographical area that Scott Lunny now represents

in the steelworkers’ four Western provinces.

Along with him is Jessie Uppal,

Brett Bardon, Mike Duhra, George Soule, Adam Connell, Tim Twa, Ravi Gandha,

Chris Walker, Colin Gurnett, Jeff Jewell, Jason Arnold, Doug Mooring, Fred

Girling, Brian Harder, Kay Noonan, Lori Travis, Tamara Marshall and Marty

Gibbons.

Please join with me and give them a very, very warm

welcome.

Hon. M. Dean: Canada’s only United World College is here in Metchosin, called

Pearson College. Today teacher Michelle Moon and students from Pearson

College are here visiting, and they’re in the gallery this

morning.

They’re part of the global affairs program. The global affairs program

brings together the college and wider communities to explore issues such as

the climate crisis, politics, civil affairs and the arts. Would the House

please make them all very welcome.

Hon. K. Chen: After the introductions of many im­portant adults in this House,

I want to introduce a very important young person who is joining us for

question period today.

That is a friend of my son, ten-year-old Rory Nagai, who is visiting

the Legislature with his family. He is definitely one of the kindest, most

thoughtful and caring young people I know. He’s going to Lochdale elementary

school in my community. He plays soccer with the Cliff Avenue soccer team in

Burnaby. He plays hockey with Burnaby Minor. He plays baseball with

Coquitlam Little League. He’s a very busy young activist in our

community.

I just want to also take this opportunity to thank Rory for always

caring for my son and being like an older brother to my son.

Thank you, and welcome, Rory.

[10:10 a.m.]

M. Dykeman: I have two introductions to make today. Joining us in the gallery is a

very special guest. Quinn Zaniol was the recipient of one of the two

scholarships that I sponsor annually. He is such a fabulous student and has

such an incredibly bright future ahead of him. He volunteered in my office

this summer, and I learned a ton from him. I wish we could just keep him,

but apparently, he wants to pursue a bachelor of arts at SFU. I know he’s

going to go on to do incredible things in our community. He’s just a

wonderful person.

With him today is also another wonderful person, one of my CAs, Carly

Haugen. Really, absolutely nothing would get done without her. She keeps me

organized, which is quite a task into itself. I was wondering if the House

could please join me in making both of them feel very welcome and

congratulating Quinn on his accomplishments.

My second introduction. Joining us in the gallery are Fred Girling,

Brian Harder, Kay Noonan and Lori Travis, who are part of the Steelworkers

retirees association. Fred sits on my riding association and has been an

incredible mentor. He is full of information and has taught me so much in

his volunteering. I am looking forward to having lunch with him today. I was

wondering if the House could please join me in making them feel very

welcome.

A. Singh: I also want to introduce my good friend, Mike Duhra, who is the

assistant to the director of district 3. He’s joining us in the gallery

today as well. Welcome to the halls, Mike.

J. Sims: I also want to welcome the USW delegation that’s here and congratulate

Scott Lunny, but I have two very special introductions today.

First, I would like to say that Brett Barden is here in the gallery

today. He is an activist like no other I have ever met. Ever since I moved

to Surrey, and even before then, he was Mr. NDP for me. He’s a progressive;

he’s a grassroots organizer. Whether it comes to a riding association in

Guildford, whether it comes to Panorama, or whether it was Surrey–Green

Timbers, he is just so, so committed to the democratic process, both

provincially and in the city of Surrey as well. He put together an

organization called Surrey Forward and did a horrendous amount of work, and

I want to do a huge shout-out to Brett Barden.

My second introduction is to a blast from the past. George Soule is

here. We’ve walked to many events together. We’ve walked the corridors of

the House of Commons and sat in the lobby. He was in communications at the

time. We’ve travelled together as well. Now I think Steel is so fortunate to

have this very talented young man working with them. Please help me welcome

George Soule to the B.C. Legislature.

D. Ashton: I, too, would like to follow in the Minister of Labour’s footsteps and

welcome the United Steelworkers here. Thank you very much, gentlemen. I

belong to IWA, and you put me on the path that helped me get to here today.

So thank you very much. I greatly appreciated the conversations

yesterday.

Also, there’s a gentleman I would like to recognize — Glen Lucas, from

the B.C. Fruit Growers Association — that indirectly helps me bring some

delicious fruit from the Okanagan to the Legislature.

Welcome,

Glen.

T. Shypitka: I’d like to triple down on the welcoming of the United Steelworkers

members that were here and had a great meeting yesterday. The United

Steelworkers are a big part of my riding, being that the Teck coal mines are

up there. There are some 4,000 United Steelworkers that are up

there.

Almost most importantly, two members of that group, Chris Walker and

Ravi Gandha, are fellow hockey dads of mine, and our kids, our sons, play

for the RINK Hockey Academy in Kelowna. I’d like to welcome Ravi and

Chris.

[10:15 a.m.]

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

B.C. AGRICULTURE DAY

I. Paton: Organized by the B.C. Agriculture Council, B.C. Ag Day is a

reminder to all British Columbians how fortunate we are to have such

dedicated people producing food for our province.

It is important to understand how the decision to buy local

supports farmers, ranchers, producers and proces­sors as well as

our communities. Their dedication to their craft has helped them

overcome major challenges, such as the unprecedented pandemic and a

series of climate events that caused much damage to crops, land

structures, equipment and livelihoods. The COVID-19 pandemic intensified

concerns over food security and how easily our food system could be

disrupted. It highlighted the necessity of agriculture investments to

ensure access to food for British Columbians.

Our last summer in B.C. also brought to light additional

challenges of extremely hot and dry summers, which negatively affected

our food production. Many farmers were also faced with devastating

floods last year. The atmos­pheric river caused major damage as

farm fields, barns and homes were destroyed and livestock killed. These

are stressors farmers must deal with throughout the year, yet they

continue their work without fault to keep our province fed.

Let us never forget the volatile and high-risk livelihood of

farming and ranching. Drought, rain, frost, disease, viruses and soaring

costs of production can take you down in a heartbeat. On top of those

challenges, the agriculture industry is faced with a persistent labour

shortage along with the ever-increasing financial burden of the three Fs

facing farmers today, that being feed, fuel and fertilizer. While steps

have been taken to combat these issues, we will continue to advocate for

British Columbia’s farmers and their efforts to improve B.C.’s food

security for current and future generations.

Ag Day is not only a great day to connect legislators with

farmers, but the day also increases awareness of agriculture’s positive

impact on the local economy while giving farmers and ranchers an

opportunity to share ideas and solutions to the sector’s challenges with

MLAs here in Victoria.

P. Alexis: I rise in the House today to recognize B.C. Ag Day. The day acts

as a reminder to all British Columbians how fortunate we are to have

such a passionate and committed group producing food for the people in

our province.

When I think about agriculture, I can’t help but think of the

people of Abbotsford and Mission. We’ve seen the extreme impacts of

climate-related weather events on our farming communities, and that’s

why we are taking action to support farmers and ranchers with climate

adaptation tools and projects.

One in five jobs in the Fraser Valley is related to the

agri­cultural sector, and the valley ranks number 1 in the

province’s agricultural economy, generating over $1 billion in gross

farm receipts yearly.

When I think of agriculture, I can’t help but think of Bill and

Helinda Vanderkooi and their family. The Vanderkooi family owns

Bakerview EcoDairy in Abbotsford and are deeply committed to helping

people learn about farming and where their food comes from. This working

farm is open to the public for field trips, tours and events. The farm

is home to a variety of farm animals that even includes beehives. Most

of the land is irrigated grass for the cattle, but they also grow

berries and rice — yes, rice.

These stewards of the land have embraced technology such as

anaerobic digesters that help to convert animal manure into usable

resources like heat and electricity. The Vanderkoois are living their

dream of collaborating with the agricultural community to continue to

develop solutions to improve animal well-being and the environment, a

shining example of how traditional and innovative farming techniques can

come together to contribute to the local economy.

If you visit Abbotsford, I’d like you to stop by Bakerview

EcoDairy for a tour. And the ice cream, I promise you, is exceptional

and highly recommended.

TONY CESCON AND OUTDOOR EDUCATION

CLASSES FOR SECONDARY

STUDENTS

B. Stewart: It’s an honour to rise in the House today to talk about British

Columbia, where we are blessed with no shortage of incredible

environments: mountains, rivers, forests, lakes. However, many of us do

not get much opportunity to spend time in nature or learn the skills to

take

part in the various outdoor pursuits.

[10:20 a.m.]

Well, in my community of West Kelowna, we have a dedicated teacher

who wants to change that. For over 20 years, the last five at Mount

Boucherie Secondary, Mr. Tony Cescon has been working to give as many

students as possible the chance to experience the outdoors, learning

valuable life skills along the way. Over the years, hundreds of students

have taken

part in his outdoor education classes. He is passionate about

taking students out of the typical classroom environment and teaching

them to find new strengths and leadership skills.

Through a combination of both classroom-based in­struction

and outdoor education, the course teaches students to tackle new

challenges, like learning to hike, camp, rock-climb, snowshoe and

cross-country ski. Students also learn critical skills like water

safety, avalanche awareness, meal planning, first aid and bear

safety.

I remember doing something similar in my youth, taking

part in an

outdoor program where we hiked up the Garibaldi Neve Glacier and even

dug and spent a night in a snow cave. It was a formative experience for

me, being a young person in nature. It created lasting memories, and I

learned lifelong skills. It exposed me to some of the beauty of British

Columbia and opened up new opportunities.

As a result, it’s encouraging to hear about a teacher who is so

passionate about giving his students those same valuable opportunities

and experiences, investing in their future and equipping them for the

future.

BUSINESS EXCELLENCE AWARDS

RICHMOND

K. Greene: This year is the 45th Business Excellence Awards, hosted by the

Richmond Chamber of Commerce, and finalists have been announced in ten

categories. Among them are a number of Richmond-Steveston

businesses.

Advantage Speech-Language Pathology has a team of speech-language

pathologists that sees clients of all ages with all types of

communication and swallowing concerns and can provide services in 15

languages, including sign language.

Collective Beauty Studio believes in empowering self-confidence

through the power of beauty, collaboration and community and is a

finalist in two categories.

Generation Daycare offers preschool and school-age programs where

children have opportunities to learn and grow through indoor and outdoor

active play, quiet play and rest.

Go2Girl owner La Toya Barrington won the first-ever Small Business

of the Year award from the Black Business Association of B.C. Her

business offers residential and commercial cleaning, home organization,

weddings and events, and more.

LivEZ has formulated vegan, sustainable and socially conscious

skin care and wellness products for sale online and at retailers. A

little business with big heart, they’re aligned with U.N. sustainable

development goals.

Optima Living operates Wisteria Place, a seniors independent

living residence which just opened in Steveston. Wisteria supports

seniors to live a full and rewarding life in the community, near the

amenities that Steveston offers.

Renaissance Academy of Learning provides child care, before- and

after-school programs, and spring and summer break camps with emphasis

on arts and STEM.

Steveston’s Arts Connection provides instruction in visual arts,

dance and music, helping children learn im­portant skills and grow

empathy.

True Conditioning is a finalist in two categories as well and is a

gym that has all women trainers, instructors and nutrition coaches.

Supportive and positive, they offer classes for all levels and

abilities.

Please join me in congratulating these fine finalists on their

outstanding work and contributions to our community.

APPLE SEASON AND FRUIT INDUSTRY

D. Ashton: It’s the most wonderful time of year. No, I’m not talking about

Christmas. We’re still a little ways away from that. I’m talking about

apple season — unfortunately, about three weeks late. Locally grown

apples are widely available right now, so I encourage everybody to take

advantage and enjoy the many varieties grown here in British Columbia. I

want to thank our tree fruit growers and other fruit and berry growers

in the Okanagan region and beyond, who have put a tremendous amount of

work and care into this year’s crop.

We all know that recent climate events have created a lot of

challenges for farmers and growers throughout our province. Heatwaves

and drought conditions ended up scorching some of the crops and taking a

toll on the soil. Last year’s heat dome also led to a very much lighter

crop and harvest this year. Meanwhile, heavy rains and atmospheric

rivers put some of the plants right under water. These events not only

damaged the crops, but they damaged structures, equipment and vital

infrastructure.

[10:25 a.m.]

As farmers and growers struggle to fully recover from these

damages and losses, it’s ever more important for British Columbians to

consider buying local as much as possible. The farmers, their families

and those that help the farms absolutely need our support. We salute

each and every one of them for a job well done under the most

challenging circumstances, producing high-quality, delicious and

nutritious fruit products for all of us to enjoy.

Thank you to the Fruit Growers Association of British Columbia,

B.C. Tree Fruits and all the berry councils who continue to advocate on

their behalf during these uncertain times.

A special, really heartfelt thanks to Richard and Denise

MacDonald, Lorraine Bennest and Adrian Arts, who again have topped up

our family orchard supply of the wonderful Aurora Golden Gala for all in

the Legislature to enjoy.

ACTION ON SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN HOCKEY

G. Lore: I have been a hockey fan all of my life. The last few months have

been gut-wrenching. The recent changes at Hockey Canada are welcome, but

for me and so many others across B.C., they are not enough. I humbly use

this opportunity this morning to speak to hockey here in B.C., to teams

and players — local, junior, professional and everything in

between.

First, we’re asking you to say it — to say that sexual­ized

violence has no place in your sport. We want to know that you feel as we

feel about what’s been revealed at Hockey Canada.

Second, leadership in your locker room matters. Does your training

need an upgrade? What language do you allow to be used in your locker

room? Most importantly, what happens if a player on your team commits

sexual assault or domestic violence? We want to know, we need to know,

that there are no on-the-ice skills that are more important than the

safety of women and girls and others in your community.

Finally, lead in your community. Call in other teams. Use your

platform to show the role of men and boys in standing up against

sexualized and domestic violence, be­cause this violence isn’t

limited to the hockey community. It affects every community across our

province.

What we’re asking is for our hockey teams, their players and fans

to show the courage that survivors show every day — survivors like Kelly

Favro, whose courage and resilience took her all the way to the B.C.

Supreme Court, where she won the right to share her own story without

fear of prosecution.

Her courage and her fight brought Kelly and survivor Sammie Geiger

to Ottawa, where they shared their stories with the Standing Committee

on Justice and Human Rights and asked for change, asking for the right

to speak their own stories and tell their own truths, demanding to

reclaim their autonomy.

I stand with Kelly; I stand with Sammie. I stand with survivors,

and we need you, your teams, your coaches and your fans to stand with

us.

Oral Questions

HEALTH CARE SYSTEM USE OF NURSES

FROM PRIVATE

AGENCIES

K. Falcon: As I’ve spoken to thousands of people across this province, I am

alarmed to hear from nurses who say how often they find that they are

outnumbered on hospital wards by private agency nurses.

Now, you can imagine how shocked I was to learn that under the NDP

government, we have had an explosion of private contractors working as

nurses in our hospitals, some from as far away as Newfoundland and

others that are just leaving the public sector to go join the for-profit

sector.

The amount of money that the NDP are spending on private agency

nurses has skyrocketed by over 600 percent. Now, this is not only a

massive waste of taxpayer dollars, where we’re paying up to three times

more for the same nurse who was once working for the health authority

and is now working for a private agency contractor, but it’s also wrong,

it’s inefficient, and it’s destroying the morale of our

nurses.

A nurse from the Interior says: “For the first time, I have

thought about becoming an agency nurse. No overtime, no stress, no phone

ringing on my days off, and I would make double to triple what I make

right now. But I feel like I would be leaving my co-workers high and

dry.”

There is no better picture of a health care system on its last

legs than our current NDP Minister of Health using a backdoor approach

to bring in for-profit nursing, to prop up a public health care system

that is in collapse.

Will the Minister of Health, who has clearly run out of ideas, do

the right thing and resign?

[10:30 a.m.]

Hon. A. Dix: The Nurses Bargaining Association has increased by 18 percent

since I became Minister of Health. We’ve taken steps to dramatically

increase training spaces — just recently, in February, 604 more nursing

spaces. We’ve taken significant action to add and improve pathways for

internationally educated nurses.

Yesterday one of the most significant things requested by the B.C.

Nurses Union, by the Hospital Employees Union and others…. We improved

and we laid down improvements to safety in our hospitals to address

issues of….

Interjections.

Hon. A. Dix: I would just contrast this. The only Minister of Health in recent

memory, NDP or Liberal, who saw the decline in the number of registered

nurses under his or her watch was the Leader of the Opposition. It’s

sometimes not so nice to be unique. I would say this: it was the Leader

of the Opposition.

We in British Columbia — yesterday we spoke to this — have

established an agency to support nurses and other health care workers in

their occupational health and safety.

You may say: “Why did you need to

create such an agency?” Why did we have to create such an agency?

Because there was one, and that Leader of the Opposition eliminated

it.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Leader of the Official Opposition, supplemental.

K. Falcon: We have to remind this member that they’re in their second term of

government. The public is learning that every time they get in

trouble….

Interjections.

K. Falcon: Exactly. That’s what the public’s thinking.

Every time they get in trouble, they make an announcement. I’m

glad the minister made another announcement. But frankly, your

announcements haven’t made a difference in results. What the public is

very quickly figuring out is that when it comes to results, this

government gets the worst possible results.

Under this minister, we have hallway medicine. We’ve got the

longest walk-in clinic wait times in the country. Well done. We’ve got

people literally dying in overcrowded waiting rooms, just waiting to be

seen. That’s the record of this minister and this government.

It’s this minister — he loves spewing out numbers — that just

talked about an 18 percent increase in nurses. I’m talking about a 600

percent increase in for-profit contract nurses that this member has also

overseen. Now the president of the B.C. Nurses Union, Aman Grewal, says:

“There are units in hospitals where it is all agency nurses.”

Now, I’d love to tell the House what the tainted incoming Premier

thinks of this, but he’s had nothing to say about health care — not one

idea during that entire joke of a leadership race. But by contrast, the

only leadership candidate that had a health platform, Anjali Appadurai,

promised action, saying: “We have an acute crisis of nurses leaving the

system, where they’re able to get wages that are higher in the private

sector.”

The Minister of Health has completely lost his way. Will he do the

honourable thing, step aside and let somebody else try and fix the

broken system that he is overseeing?

Hon. A. Dix: I think our teams of nurses and doctors and health sciences

professionals and health care workers have done an extraordinary job in

this period of two public health emergencies. That performance is

recognized everywhere, I think, other than perhaps by the Leader of the

Opposition.

[10:35 a.m.]

Since I became Minister of Health, we addressed and have addressed

a health human resources challenge by adding net 38,000 people to the

health care system. The Leader of the Opposition says that an 18 percent

increase in nurses in the Nurses Bargaining Association doesn’t matter.

Well, maybe if you cut registered nurses when you were Minister of

Health, you would think so, but he is the only person in British

Columbia who believes that.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. One question at a time and one answer at a

time.

Let’s continue.

S. Bond: The conversation is not about the job that, actually, nurses and

physicians and radiologists and all of the health care professionals are

doing. They’re doing a fantastic job. This is all about the job that

this minister isn’t doing.

Let’s be clear. The minister is relying on bringing in

pri­vate company nurses at a salary range that is up to three

times more than the pay of their colleagues. The minister can dismiss

that, but what it is doing is driving nurses out of public health care

to go to a private contractor so they can come back to work in the very

same unit for up to three times more money. And the minister simply

dismisses it.

Here’s what a nurse from Vancouver told us: “I’m expected to show

up every day and work in a toxic workplace for an employer that doesn’t

respect me. To add insult to injury, I’m now working side by side with

agency nurses, who are doing the same job that I am for nearly twice the

pay that I earn, and they are former colleagues that I’ve worked with in

the same unit for over ten years.”

The minister can smile and ignore all of these details. It is

demoralizing to nurses. He is relying on privately contracted nurses to

prop up the health care system. It is time he did the right thing, stood

up and resigned.

Hon. A. Dix: For members of the opposition to talk about privatization…. The

authors of the largest layoff of women workers in the history of North

America — there they are.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, yesterday we had a wonderful question period —

very dignified, very respectful. Let’s try to maintain the same spirit,

please. Thank you.

Hon. A. Dix: I don’t know what’s changed, hon. Speaker. I don’t know what’s

changed.

What we have focused on is adding nursing positions, adding

nurses. When I became Minister of Health, we were the last in Canada in

nurse practitioners. We were tenth in Canada in registered nurses. We

had fewer nurses, believe it or not, registered nurses, in 2016 than we

had in 2009, when the Leader of the Opposition became Minister of

Health.

We are dealing with a period of pandemic and, of course,

responding with urgent measures where they’re required to ensure people

get the care they require. That is my responsibility as Minister of

Health, and you bet I’m carrying it out.

Mr. Speaker: Prince George–Valemount, supplemental.

S. Bond: The part of the answer the minister ignored was that under our

government, we had the best health outcomes in the country, bar none. In

fact, he can go look it up. He’s well familiar with CIHI, and that is

exactly who looked at outcomes.

Let’s be clear. This minister today hasn’t denied the use of

privately contracted nurses. In fact, he’s celebrating the fact that he

is using privately contracted nurses at up to three times more the

salary than nurses that are working in the public health care system.

Apparently, that’s acceptable to the minister.

Well, it isn’t to the B.C. Nurses Union. Here’s what the president

said. President Aman Grewal said: “It’s a bit of a robbing Peter to pay

Paul type of a situation. Because they’re leaving one employment to go

to do an agency nursing, we’re still at a loss.”

[10:40 a.m.]

The minister has created such a mess in the health care system. It

has collapsed. It has come to the fact that he has to hire contracted

nurses so that British Columbians can get some semblance of

care.

This is not about nurses. This is not about doctors. This is about

a minister who has failed in his portfolio, who has created a mess, and

it is time for him to accept that and step aside.

Hon. A. Dix: As members will know, if you were waiting to get surgery, we were

around the bottom of the country when I became Minister of Health. Now,

in many categories of hip and knee replacement surgery, we’re number 1.

Where we did….

Interjections.

Hon. A. Dix: Well, we count these things.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh, shhh, shhh, Members. Members.

Hon. A. Dix: The Leader of the Opposition talks about CIHI data. That’s CIHI

data, and it demonstrates that.

When you were waiting in Northern Health to get diagnostic care….

We’ve added and more than doubled the capacity, for example, for MRIs in

the Northern Health Authority. We were waiting, and now we’re waiting

dramatically less time there and across British Columbia.

With respect to nurses, the opposition says 18 percent more in the

bargaining unit is not good enough. I agree. That’s why we’re adding

nursing spaces. We’re adding internationally educated nurses. We’re

addressing the situation that we face in front of us to ensure that

people get the care now and get care in the future.

That’s what we are going to continue to do, which is strong action

to respond to the challenges facing a health care system that’s dealing

with two public health emergencies — and health care workers and health

care professionals, who are doing an outstanding job.

COMMUNICATIONS ON

COVID-19 IN

SCHOOLS

S. Furstenau: Speaking of public health emergencies, yesterday Capital

Daily and Burnaby Beacon published a story about the

reality of how COVID was spreading in our schools in 2021. Well, the

story the provincial health office and the government wanted to tell did

not match what was actually happening.

Can the Minister of Health explain to the public what

happened?

Hon. A. Dix: Well, what’s happened, throughout the pandemic, is outstanding

leadership by our provincial health officer and, here on Vancouver

Island, by our chief medical officer of health. Dr. Henry and Dr.

Stanwick have done an outstanding job.

What’s happened in British Columbia is that in schools, in

particular…. Schools stayed open in British Columbia, providing health

and educational benefits for children that are incalculable. We have the

best record of any jurisdiction in the country because of actions of

Ministers of Education and Minister of Health, but mostly the actions of

teachers, the actions of parents, the actions of students, who did an

outstanding job.

There’s a reference to an email from Dr. Richard Stanwick, now

retired, and Dr. Henry that said that COVID cases during spring break

were going up, which was the pattern we had seen in winter breaks as

well. In other words, transmission was less during school than it was

during break periods.

What Dr. Stanwick recommended is that we remind peo­ple to

stay home when they’re sick, something we’ve been doing since February

of 2020 and something we doubled down with when we became the first

Legislature in Canada to pass sick day legislation, by the Minister of

Labour.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Third Party, supplemental.

S. Furstenau: Speaking of doubling down — astonishing.

For those who didn’t read it, here are some quotes from the

article that was published yesterday. The provincial health officer’s

own advisers, including Dr. Stanwick, warned her of “daunting” spikes in

school exposures. Yet Dr. Henry wrote to her staff, “We need to be able

to give some data that supports what we’re saying” — i.e., that

transmission in schools is low. We have a narrative, and we need the

data to support it.

[10:45 a.m.]

She then told the public, over and over again, that transmission

in schools was low, denying the reality that teachers and parents were

experiencing in their real lives — over and over again,

gaslighting.

And all the while, what was happening? A study was being

co-authored by the PHO herself. Now we know that 70 to 80 percent of

children and youth have been infected with COVID, more than any other

age cohort in B.C., and that between March and August of last year,

spread among kids was 92 times higher than what this government was

reporting.

My question is to the Minister of Health.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Let’s hear the question, please, Members.

Interjection.

S. Furstenau: Wow. These guys are desperate.

My question is to the Minister of Health. In light of this

information, how can we trust his word and the word of the provincial

health officer?

Hon. A. Dix: Well, I think, British Columbians think, and the world thinks that

we have an outstanding provincial health officer.

Interjections.

Hon. A. Dix: Perhaps I’ll let the opposition have its discussions.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Continue.

Hon. A. Dix: The leader of the Green Party quotes Dr. Stanwick, who was

referring to a spike in COVID cases during spring break of 2021. Then

she says the response from Dr. Henry was the one she reported. That

response was an email from December 23. I just think that to imply that

one is a response to the other is inaccurate. It’s inaccurate and, I

suggest, not worthy of a question in this House — not worthy.

The email from Dr. Stanwick came following spring break, and Dr.

Henry’s advice continued to be what it should have been, which is stay

home when you’re sick. In December, at a time of high contact tracing,

the advice continued to be…. We briefed on the same day the email was

put out, and the advice is, as it continues to be, that people need to

be careful and stay home when they’re sick. It was a time of contact

tracing, and seeking out more information on that is not

unreasonable.

Dr. Henry has consistently provided her best advice, and the

suggestion that she did otherwise is simply incorrect. Does that mean

that she’s right every single time? Of course not. This has been an

evolving pandemic that has challenged health officers everywhere in the

world. We have had a level of service from Dr. Henry in terms of

transparency to the public that is second to none and a level of advice

and guidance that has benefited the people of B.C.

You can go to any grocery store or any place in B.C., and you’ll

get the same answer. Dr. Bonnie Henry is outstanding.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Thank you, Members. Take it easy. Thank you.

[10:50 a.m.]

ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS AND

ISSUES IN HEALTH CARE

SYSTEM

T. Stone: Every day we hear more stories of a health care system that is

collapsing in British Columbia. Alan writes: “I recently spent 16 hours

in the emergency waiting room with extreme chest pain. I’m 73 years old,

and this was a horrific experience.”

The NDP’s massive failure on health care comes against a backdrop

of record high amounts being spent on administration while British

Columbians face increasingly dire results when it comes to health care

delivery. In fact, financial statements show that despite a crippling

health care staffing shortage, the amount of funding that’s going

towards corporate administrative expenses within health authorities

under this minister has increased by $1.3 billion over the past five

years. That’s nearly double the level that it was in 2017.

How can this Minister of Health justify spending $1.3 billion more

on administrative costs when British Col­umbians like Allan aren’t

able to get the care that they deserve? Will this minister do the right

thing and resign?

Hon. A. Dix: I’m glad that the Leader of the Opposition was lauding the

Canadian Institute for Health Information, because they actually measure

these things. What the Canadian Institute for Health Information shows

is pretty straightforward.

There’s a corporate services expense ratio that compares

jurisdictions, and what does it show? It shows that B.C. has one of the

lowest rates of administration in the country. It shows that the

situation has improved since 2016. In fact, that level of administration

has been reduced. Why has it been reduced? It’s because we’ve been

hiring more nurses and more health care workers. We’ve been

bringing….

That why we measure these things, and the record…. That’s why the

Canadian Institute of Health Information measures these things, so that

when people stand up and make statements that are incorrect, it gives us

a chance to correct them. It’s a very positive situation.

One of the reasons why we are increasing the number of surgeries,

increasing the number of diagnostic exams, increasing the number of

staff is to respond to these very issues, because when you’re waiting

for care — whether it’s in an emergency room, whether it’s for an

ambulance or whether it’s for surgery — that’s the most important thing

in your life, and we know it. That’s why all of these actions have been

taken: increased nurses, increased doctors, increased surgeries,

increased diagnostic equipment. It’s so that the people involved, the

people who benefit from those things, will see the consequences in a

positive way.

We are living through two public health emergencies, and our

health care teams are doing an outstanding job. Can we do better?

Absolutely. That’s why we are taking these actions.

Mr. Speaker: Opposition House Leader, supplemental.

T. Stone: Well, talk about a Health Minister that’s completely out of touch

with British Columbians when it comes to the delivery of health care.

One in five without a doctor. People dying in hallways and ERs. People

dying waiting for an ambulance to arrive. ER closures have become

routine in communities all over the province, and this minister stands

up and portrays a system that apparently is the best in the

country.

You know, what British Columbians really care about are positive

outcomes, positive results. So against that backdrop, you can imagine

how outraged British Columbians are to learn that under this minister,

there are now 64 vice-presidents across health authorities, each earning

approximately $400,000 apiece.

Now, this does nothing for people like Tina, who says: “I am now

facing a mental and physical health crisis, and I have no doctor. I am

falling through the cracks of a bro­ken health care system, and

there must be accountability from this incompetent Health Minister and

his team of no answer, no show, no help.”

How can this Health Minister justify having 64 vice-presidents

across the health authorities, making, on average, $400,000 each, and

spending $1.3 billion more on administrative costs today than in 2017,

when people like Tina can’t get the health care that they deserve when

they need it?

[10:55 a.m.]

Hon. A. Dix: I think the reason why the Canadian Institute for Health

Information keeps those statistics is to show contrast. We were last in

Canada, tenth, in registered nurses in 2017. That has impact on

outcomes.

In 90 percent of our care homes, we did not meet staffing

standards, because we had a government that had launched a 15-year war

against workers in health care that affected the quality of care. That

affected it in every care home in British Columbia, and it’s why we’ve

taken the actions we’ve taken to get rid of, for example, the agency

that was set up to contract out work — to rid that and to bring that

back into health authorities so that we can have health care workers

working for health authorities and so that we can recruit health care

workers that we need in the future to do so.

We’ve added care aides. We’ve added nurses. We’ve added health

sciences professionals. We’ve added doctors. Still, in the context….

They still talk about their fantasy of privatization, when that group on

the other side of the House damaged our health care system for a

generation through privatization schemes that made no sense.

Our investment has been in front-line staff. We’re going to

continue to do it, because it’s those front-line staff that deliver the

care British Columbia needs.

R. Merrifield: The contrast of the fantasy that this minister promotes and the

reality of British Columbians that have health care needs is staggering.

Every day we hear stories about the collapse of the health care system

under this minister’s watch.

Linda recently shared her story with me. She’s a 73-year-old woman

going through waiting lists — waiting lists for a mammogram, a waiting

list for an ultrasound, another waiting list for a biopsy and yet

another one for her surgery. And after these waits, when she finally had

surgery, the tumour had grown so significantly that she was now stage

This shouldn’t come as a surprise to us. The radiologists warned

us of the tsunami of late-stage cancer cases. Because of the progression

while Linda waited, she now has to undergo both radiation and

chemotherapy. But instead of working to help Linda, this minister has

put 1.3 billion additional dollars in increased administrative costs

instead of in front-line workers.

How can the minister justify this $1.3 billion in additional

administrative spending or the 64 vice-presidents, each earning

$400,000, all while Linda can’t get the care that she deserves? Will he

do the right thing and resign, or will he wait to be fired by the

tainted Premier-delegate?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, are you interested in the answer?

Hon. A. Dix: Every case in British Columbia matters — every single one. This

has been, as people in this House know, an extraordinary period for

public health care.

Two public health emergencies aren’t even recognized in their

questions when they ask for the help. It’s as if they didn’t exist; as

if it’s not there; as if COVID-19 is still not an international health

emergency and a pandemic in B.C., which it is. It’s as if there aren’t

15,000 people off work this week in health care — in very significant

respects, compared to the average — because of COVID-19; as if these

things aren’t happening.

In this context, we are delivering…. Hon. Speaker, I

guess….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, please.

Hon. A. Dix: The Opposition House Leader is continuing to heckle. They seem to

suggest that the questions are serious, and then they don’t behave that

way. That’s fine. That’s their business….

Interjections.

[11:00 a.m.]

Mr. Speaker: Members.

The minister will continue.

Hon. A. Dix: Thank you, hon. Speaker.

With respect to radiology, every case matters, and when people

struggle in getting access to the system, the system needs to respond to

that. In very significant ways, it is.

After a long period of government, we were last in Can­ada

in MRIs, right? We’ve done 174,000 MRIs in the 2016-17 fiscal year.

That’s 174,000 people, and that seems like a lot. Last year, in a

pandemic, it was 296,000. If we were still at 174,000, can you imagine

what the circumstance would be in radiology?

But we are not, and why are we not? Because we went from one MRI

machine going 24-7 to nine. We went from four going 16-7 to 18. And we

added 17 public MRI ma­chines — equally, with respect to CT

scans.

You know who we pay for? We pay for tech. We pay for staff who

support and

schedule those appointments. We pay for radiologists. Those

are the things we pay for in providing that care. We’ve gone from,

frankly, 22 per 1,000 in the Northern Health Authority — it’s mostly

represented by B.C. Liberals — to more than double that in terms of

MRIs. That is a record to be proud of.

[End of question period.]

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: I call continued second reading of Bill 36.

[J. Tegart in the chair.]

Second Reading of Bills

BILL 36 — HEALTH PROFESSIONS AND

OCCUPATIONS ACT

(continued)

M. Lee: To continue my second reading speech on Bill 36, I was saying

before the break yesterday evening, the matters I want to bring forward

during committee stage on Bill 36, particularly from the perspective of

how the level of consultation has been with First Nation leaders and

Indigenous leaders in this province.

I look forward to receiving from the minister the opportunity to

set out the level of consultation that was involved, recognizing the

complexity of this legislative framework and responding to the In

Plain Sight report and other needs within so many communities

across this province.

[11:05 a.m.]

It will be helpful to understand the role and the perspectives

that were brought to bear in respect of the guiding principles for

UNDRIP as well as the anti-discrimination measures in this legislative

framework.

I look forward to receiving from the minister the opportunity to

set out the level of consultation that was involved, recognizing that

with the complexity of this legislative framework and responding to the

In Plain Sight report and other needs within so many

communities across this province, it will be helpful to understand the

role of and the perspectives that were brought to bear in respect of the

guiding principles for UNDRIP as well as the anti-discrimination

measures in this legislative framework.

An example of why it’s important to see how this legislative

framework will be going forward is the use of the term “Indigenous

governing body” in this Bill 36. That brings over the definition of

Indigenous governing bodies from the Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Act.

If we look at a few examples, such as the important buildout in

the area of support services…. Members, during second reading, have

referred to this in terms of the availability of support services,

counselling services, to support persons to recover from or seek redress

for sexual misconduct, sexual abuse or discrimination.

Section 288 sets

out and refers to the list of support workers in this area. That can be

and would be, for the administrator of this program, looking at a list

through “a process established under the program parameters by one or

more Indigenous governing bodies or other entities representing

Indigenous peoples.”

As I commented yesterday, as well, it has been three years since

DRIPA has been adopted in this House. In terms of the use of the term

“Indigenous governing body,” I certainly would like to pursue with the

minister what that means in the context of this bill. For example, here,

when we’re talking about program parameters being established by one or

more Indigenous governing bodies, what does that mean?

Given the recognition in the DRIPA action plan of the

distinctiveness of each of the First Nations and Indigenous nations in

our province, including the Métis, when we’re talking about program

parameters and only being established by one or more, I’m interested to

know what that means in effect and how that will be translated into this

framework.

Also, the use of this larger term now: “other entities

representing Indigenous peoples.” Obviously, with entities like the

First Nations Health Authority, other umbrella organizations, the AFN

themselves here in British Columbia, Assembly of First Nations Chiefs as

well as the leaders summit and the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs as

well….

There are many bodies, of course, that are representative in

nature for Indigenous peoples — Métis Nation, of course. How does that

feed into ensuring we have availability of this list of support workers?

That is my interest, to raise that to the minister and his team as we

look to address that.

Another example…. Of course, I won’t go through them all in the

time that I have here. The bylaw provisions under

section 384, as well,

make use of this same framework. When we’re looking at bylaws, rules to

be established by boards or health occupation directors, they must

“…first consult with all of the following.”

So we’re talking about persons who are affected by the proposed

bylaw, of course, other regulators and then, in category (c), “one or

more persons nominated for this purpose by Indigenous governing bodies

or other entities representing Indigenous peoples, if the bylaw or rule

is made.” Then it gets into discrimination or anti-discrimination

matters, “…if Indigenous identity is specifically relevant”; the

delivery of the type of health care services.

Something else that has been commented and noted by other members

on second reading here is the use of restorative processes that are

intended to reflect or be influenced by Indigenous practices. Again,

when I look at the guiding principles and the reference to UNDRIP…. I

mentioned yesterday, for example,

article 24 in UNDRIP.

Recognizing the acknowledgment that we need to use a distinct,

based approach, recognizing all the individual differences between First

Nations and this term that is also embedded in this act now with

Indigenous practices….

[11:10 a.m.]

We are talking about Indigenous cultural practices, contemporary

Indigenous practices that are based on, originate in traditional

Indigenous practices, and a combination of traditional and contemporary

Indigenous practices.

All I’m pointing out is that when we’re talking about one or more

persons nominated for this purpose, what is that governing body? What is

that reference for Indigenous nations in this province that will provide

that input as they nominate a person, or one or more persons, to serve

in this role? What is the requirement by the other entities representing

Indigenous peoples? How might that be reconciled, so to speak,

coordinated and aligned with Indigenous governing bodies

themselves?

If I turn to another

section which I do want to spend some time

with the minister on during committee, it would be the superintendent’s

office. Obviously, as the framework puts in teeth to expectations on all

of these professional regulatory bodies, the superintendent plays a

significant role in oversight.

That role includes the purposes as set out in

section 435 of the

act, which is “to promote awareness of and adherence to the guiding

principles as described in

section 14.” Those

section 14 guiding

principles, as I mentioned yesterday, do include reconciliation with

Indigenous peoples, UNDRIP itself and the need to address racism and

anti-racism issues that are specific to Indigenous peoples.

As we break this down in terms of the actual role of the

superintendent, we have qualifying words around promoting awareness.

That is actually in the guiding principles itself. It’s doubled up in

the regulatory oversight. What does that mean? I think it’ll be

important to understand, from the minister, what the level of current

awareness is, whether that’s a measurable result. Specifically, when

referring to UNDRIP, we’re talking, I presume, around articles like

Article 24.

What’s the effect of this? As we look at the use of the word

“adherence” to the guiding principles, what is the expectation, in this

legislation, that we have for the superintendent to ensure adherence to

the guiding principles? This is the use of the term and the framework

for how we are ensuring that under the Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Act, legislation that comes in front of this

assembly, this House, is consistent with UNDRIP itself.

By walking through these examples, I’m trying to give an

indication as to where the discussion would go to ensure how this

legislation lines up with the principles set out in the articles of

UNDRIP. When we’re using this mechanism of guiding principles, it does

invite the question as to where this government is of the view that this

legislation is consistent with UNDRIP. Apart from the framework around

guiding principles, I will be asking the minister about the government’s

view of that, in terms of its adherence and compliance with the DRIPA

Act.

As we look at the remaining balance of this bill, just a few other

examples, which I would like to get into at committee stage, relate to

the superintendent’s conduct of the oversight process. In

Section 467,

we have a listing of the Indigenous matters where the superintendent

would “collaborate with one or more persons nominated by Indigenous

governing bodies or other entities representing Indigenous peoples….”

There again is the use of that term that’s set out to involve those

bodies, both from the governing bodies’ perspective as well as entities

representing Indigenous peoples.

[11:15 a.m.]

Again, to understand the differences between nations and

Indigenous communities…. We talked earlier about the traditional versus

the contemporary. There are certainly distinct differences here in how

that will be ported in to the collaboration necessary by the

superintendent in these areas around discrimination, anti-discrimination

matters and the type of delivery of health services in accor­dance

with Indigenous practices. Again, that does bring in the differences

amongst Indigenous nations and communities themselves.

Just to put in two other points here, we have, in

section 540,

reference to the transition and respect of applications for

registrations. Here we have, again, where the decision on the

application will look to the exercise of powers and performance of

duties under the guiding principles. How that will be involved in these

particular sections, including around disciplinary

proceedings….

Again, because there’s a general reference to UNDRIP under the

guiding principles, I do think it’s going to be instructive for this

House to get a better understanding at committee stage as to what the

expectation will be as to how those power and performance of duties in

the course of a disciplinary proceeding would occur. I think it will be

helpful to hear from the minister a number of examples, if the minister

would be prepared to share that with us during the committee stage, just

so that we can understand how this will work, given the broad general

reference, I’d say, to UNDRIP under the guiding principles.

With that, I look forward to having that kind of detailed

discussion with the minister and his team during committee stage with,

of course, our member for Prince George–​Valemount and other

members on this side of the House to walk through these various

provisions from my perspective, as they affect First Nations and

Indigenous peo­ples, to see the objectives that are certainly

important under this new legislation. I look forward to that committee

stage. Thank you. Those are my comments at this time.

J. Rice: I’m happy to rise today to speak to Bill 36, the Health

Professions Act. This is a really important piece of legislation,

particularly for my constituents in North Coast.

I have a high Indigenous population in my riding. I understand

that it’s the highest of all the ridings or constituencies we have in

B.C. Almost half my constituency are Indigenous peoples living on

reserve. Historically there’s been a tenuous relationship with health

care facilities and health care service for a lot of Indigenous people

in my riding.

In fact, the hospital in Bella Bella is named after a white male

historical racist person. Recently the Heiltsuk First Nation removed the

name of the hospital, and they’re going through a naming process to name

the hospital to be much more culturally appropriate and safe. That just

reflects the changes and the day and age of communities, and British

Columbians in general, working towards a concrete action plan for

reconciliation.

I was really happy to see some of the details in this piece of

legislation, but it’s a little bit more comprehensive than that, than my

local issue. Patient safety will be enhanced, oversight of health

regulatory colleges strengthened, and governance of the health

professionals will be improved with this piece of ground-breaking

legislation. Our government is making the most significant changes to

oversight of regulated health professionals in British Columbia’s

history.

[11:20 a.m.]

These changes will streamline the process to regulate new health

professions, provide stronger oversight, pro­vide more consistent

discipline across the professions, act in the public interest and

protect patient care in this prov­ince while also laying the

groundwork to further reduce the total number of regulatory

colleges.

The Health Professions and Occupations Act replaces its

predecessor, the Health Professions Act. The act enables the creation of

a new oversight body, an independent discipline tribunal and a reformed

complaints process that increases accountability and transparency,

protects people in vulnerable circumstances and creates a commitment to

cultural safety and humility and a new way to regulate lower-risk health

occupations.

The legislation will simplify…. The legislation makes this more

simple and streamlines the process for regulating new professions.

Government will begin regulating counsellors and then diagnostic and

therapeutic professionals and will continue finalizing the amalgamation

of colleges from 15 to six.

One amalgamation will combine the colleges for dietitians,

occupational therapists, opticians, optometrists, physical therapists,

psychologists and speech and hearing professionals into one regulator.

The other amalgamation will combine the colleges for chiropractors,

massage therapists, naturopathic physicians, traditional Chinese

medicine and acupuncturists.

The Ministry of Health has made progress ahead of this legislation

by reducing the number of regulatory colleges. In October of 2020,

B.C.’s three nursing colleges were amalgamated into one. In September of

2021, the nursing college was amalgamated with the College of Midwives,

and the College of Physicians and Surgeons was amalgamated with the

college of podiatrists.

In September of this year, of 2022, B.C.’s four oral health

colleges, which included dentists, denturists, dental assistants, dental

hygienists and dental technicians, were amalgamated into one regulatory

college. There are 15 health colleges, under the act, providing

regulatory framework for 25 health professions.

The legislation is partly in response to concerns raised in a

report, in 2019, by Harry Cayton, former chief executive of the United

Kingdom’s Professional Standards Authority. He was appointed by the

Minister of Health to review the Health Professions Act and its

regulations and to make recommendations.

The changes also reflect some of the key recommendations from the

2020 In Plain Sight: Addressing Indigenous-Specific Racism and

Discrimination in B.C. Health Care report and further

implements the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act

action plan. As well, the amendments fulfil recommendations made by the

multiparty steering committee, which was chaired by the Health Minister,

the MLA for Kelowna–Lake Country and the MLA for Cowichan

Valley.

To get into a little more of the specifics…. I’ll just talk about

some of the details to further elaborate on what this means.

We’re announcing legislation that will enhance patient safety and

improve oversight of regulated health professionals. The new legislation

sets a path forward to modernize the way health professions are

regulated in B.C. by replacing the former Health Professions Act with

the new Health Professions and Occupations Act. These comprehensive

changes will help ensure health professionals are regulated more

consistently and transparently in the public interest, moving away from

a system that is, essentially, decades old.

The current framework for the regulation of health professionals

in B.C. was developed nearly 30 years ago. Health care practices,

profession oversight and public expectations have changed significantly

since then. Our health care system is changing, and we need to ensure

that regulated health professionals are keeping up by improving patient

safety and public protection, the efficiency and effectiveness of B.C.’s

regulatory framework and public confidence through transparency and

accountability.

[11:25 a.m.]

The Cayton report recommended approaches to modernize B.C.’s

health regulatory framework through legislative reform for improved

governance and regulatory performance in the interest of the safety of

patients and the public. Feedback helped the steering committee

establish its final recommendations, which focus on cultural safety and

humility, improved governance, a reduction in the number of regulatory

colleges to six, creation of an oversight body, a new discipline process

and improved information-sharing, as I stated earlier.

In

summary, what is being done is that the new legislation

addresses discrimination in health care and requires cultural safety and

humility to be embedded in the ways professionals provide health

care.

It improves governance to ensure regulatory colleges are governing

the professions in the public interest, creates a path to reduce the

number of regulatory colleges for improved efficiency and effectiveness,

establishes the creation of an oversight body to ensure that the

regulatory framework is functioning in the public interest, creates a

new discipline process that is safer and accessible for patients who

have experienced harm while getting health care and improves

information-sharing for better transparency and

accountability.

I just wanted to talk about how this will help people. This

legislation helps build stronger public protection supports. It creates

a safer complaints process. It enhances public safety measures and, as I

said earlier, establishes greater transparency and

accountability.

The complaints and adjudications system will have a new complaints

process that separates the investigation stage, which will remain with

the regulatory colleges, and the discipline stage, which will be handled

by an independent discipline body. Of interest also, regulatory colleges

will have to fund counselling for people who have experienced sexual

abuse, sexual misconduct or discrimination from regulated health

practitioners. The regulatory colleges will be able to then recover the

associated costs from the regulated health practitioners found to have

committed the harm.

Regulatory colleges will now have new abilities to share

information between each other, and with other agencies where necessary,

for public safety and protection. En­hanced information-sharing

will remove barriers to im­proving patient safety, enable more

transparency and improve the public trust in this system.

I just want to talk a little bit about the discrimination part of

this piece of legislation because it is so relevant to my constituents

in North Coast. The new act will help protect the public from the harms

of discrimination in health care and promote anti-discrimination

practices by doing the following. The legislation addresses all forms of

discrimination by strengthening the response to discrimination when it

occurs and promoting anti-discrimination objectives for safer health

care.

Health regulatory colleges will now be required to take action

against professionals who are found to have en­gaged in any form

of discrimination made against protected grounds under the B.C. human

rights code. This includes discrimination based on race, colour and

ancestry. Additionally, we are establishing a legal duty for health

professionals to report other health professionals who engage in acts of

discrimination and for employers to report to the regulatory colleges if

a discrimination incident occurred that may have resulted in

termination.

The new legislation enhances public protection by opening the door

to complainants who are in a vulnerable position. The new legislation

enables such people to re­quest that their identity would be

protected during the investigation process of a regulated health

practitioner.

[11:30 a.m.]

In the past, people may have avoided submitting a complaint or

providing information during an investigation, as it can be traumatizing

to do so and it could lead to retaliation. Offering identity protection

will encourage more people to come forward to hold regulated health

practitioners accountable for their actions.

The new legislation also reduces the potential risk of

retraumatizing someone testifying during discipline hearings by allowing

reasonable steps to be taken to support them and shield them from the

health professionals they are complaining about. For example, this

includes requiring sensitive documents to only be disclosed when

relevant and necessary.

Requiring patients to face the person who perpetrated harm in an

adversarial discipline hearing or to have their sensitive documents

disclosed, only to damage their credibility, can be traumatizing and

prevent people that experience harm from coming forward. Allowing the

independent discipline body to take steps to prevent this is intended to

help people who experience harm feel more comfortable in making

complaints.

The new act also provides funding for support. It creates a

pathway to support people, through counselling services, who have

experienced sexual abuse, sexual misconduct or discrimination by a

health professional. To ensure people have prompt access to support

services, support can be provided before an investigation reaches a

conclusion.

A new provision in the new legislation creates a funded support

worker position for those who experience a traumatic experience by a

regulated health practitioner. These support workers play a dual role.

Firstly, they are there to support the complainant through the complaint

process. Secondly, they are there to provide recommendations and monitor

the complaint process to help make it safer and

trauma-informed.

Before I conclude my remarks and my support for this piece of

legislation, I just wanted to outline a story, in my constituency, of

how this is so relevant to solving a problem that we face here in

British Columbia.

Primarily, my riding is encompassed by the Northern Health

Authority. We also have Vancouver Coastal for my Central Coast

communities. Often we will receive health complaints related to racism

to Indigenous peoples. I often refer people to the patient care quality

assurance office.

What I have learned is…. Well, all the Northern Health employees

have access to cultural safety and humility training. They have

opportunities for so much education, I could say, on the relevance of

Indigenous peoples in this province and to the riding and to the health

services and the important role that they’ve played and the trauma

they’ve experienced historically.

It came to my attention that the physicians…. I’m certainly not

targeting any particular physician, but we often have a lot of locums

come to Prince Rupert that are really sort of ill-informed on the

demographic they’re there to serve. A lot of the complaints came from

the locums or the visiting doctors not taking the sensitivity of their

patients into consideration.

However, through the patient care office, they are un­able

to address these concerns, because physicians are regulated by their own

college. They’re essentially independent contractors and not technically

an employee of Northern Health, even though they are a partner of

Northern Health.

I think by addressing some of these…. This whole piece of

legislation addresses so many aspects in that patients will now know who

to go to. It’s so confusing with all the regulatory bodies and

associations. Also, action can be taken, and corrective measures and

education for physicians can be obtained, which I think is a great step

forward for reconciliation in this province and particularly serves the

constituents in my riding.

I’m very excited about this legislation, and I’m happy to support

it.

[11:35 a.m.]

Hon. M. Dean: It’s a real honour to rise here in the House today and speak in

favour of Bill 36. This change in the legislation, the Health

Professions and Occupations Act, is going to really enhance patient

safety and improve the oversight of regulated health

professionals.

Having worked in the sector myself for over 30 years, I know how

important it is…. All workers who are delivering services to British

Columbians, especially to vulnerable British Columbians, have to be held

accountable. There has to be a really solid system of regulation and of

support, for sure. We need to have confidence, in agencies and

professionals that are delivering services, that there’s good

accountability. What this legislation is going to do is set a path to

modernize the way that health professions are regulated in British

Columbia.

The current framework was developed 30 years ago. Well, 30 years

ago I was still training to be a professional social worker, a

front-line worker, and I can tell you I’ve seen a lot of changes in my

profession and in lots of services and partner professions in those 30

years. It’s not just in having moved between and worked in different

jurisdictions.

It’s really important, as a professional, that you continue your

training, that you continue building your knowledge, that you reflect on

your practice. We learn from mistakes, we learn from vulnerabilities in

the system, and we build a very robust and comprehensive system. We need

to know that everybody who’s in the field delivering services is being

held accountable, that there is a solid and robust system of

regulation.

Our health care system is changing. We’re living with two public

health crises at the moment, and there’s a strain on the health care

profession. We need to be learning from those, and we need to be making

improvements as well. These improvements will include improving patient

safety and public protection, efficiency and effectiveness in the

regulatory framework and public confidence through transparency and

accountability.

Just a little bit of history as to how we got here. The Ministry

of Health launched an inquiry into the College of Dental Surgeons of

B.C. in 2018. Harry Cayton, who is an expert in health profession

regulation, conducted the inquiry. As part of this inquiry, Mr. Cayton

also reviewed the Health Professions Act. That’s the act that sets out

how health professionals are regulated in B.C.

We’re going to replace that with the new Health Professions and

Occupations Act. In response to his inquiry, Mr. Cayton wrote the report

An Inquiry into the Performance of the College of Dental

Surgeons of British Columbia and the Health Professions Act .

This was released to the public in April of 2019.

There was further consultation, as well, that took place between

2019 and 2020. That was even more information that has really helped us

to move forward with these changes to the legislation.

There were six recommendations that came forward in August of

2020. These were that, as we make these changes to legislation, we need

to enable cultural safety and humility, improve governance, reduce the

number of regulatory colleges, create a new oversight body,

im­prove the complaints and discipline process and improve

information-sharing.

Having run an agency here in British Columbia myself for over ten

years…. These are all areas of work that I know, having been responsible

for an agency, are very, very critical in making sure that we have

culturally safe, trauma-informed, held-accountable services delivered to

British Columbians in a way that benefits them. We can see their

outcomes, and we can actually track the needs being presented, the

services being delivered, the investments being made and the outcomes

that are actually achieved through that delivery of services.

I’m supportive of this legislation, because it really moves us

forward into modernizing how health professions are regulated. At the

end of the day, what’s really important is how services are delivered in

British Columbia and what outcomes are experienced by British

Columbians. What’s being done here is actually going to be making a

significant difference to the quality of care for British

Columbians.

[11:40 a.m.]

To get into some more of the details of the legislative changes,

firstly, I want to talk about the proactive approach to eliminating

discrimination in B.C.’s health care system. We’ve heard from too many

sources, I’ve read too many reports, and I’ve heard from too many other

British Columbians that the system creates racist barriers, and we need

to be eliminating them.

The Health Professions and Occupations Act will now be clear that

discrimination is a form of professional misconduct, and so a regulated

health professional who engages in discrimination can be subject to

investigation and being disciplined. This is a significant move forward.

There will also be more clarity to ensure health care is practised in a

manner that is consistent with objectives for anti-discrimination and

improved cultural safety for patients.

One of the first things that I did in running the agency that I

ran for over ten years here in British Columbia was to make sure that

everybody was at a good level of understanding and training and

understood the expectations of anti-racist interactions, service

delivery and teamwork in the organization that I ran, not just in terms

of being able to move forward with genuine reconciliation, but all

aspects of racism that I had observed since arriving in British

Columbia.

In my organization, we actually brought in a trainer. We spent a

whole day dedicating our learning to anti-racist practices, anti-racist

values and how we could see that in each other showing up every day in

our service delivery, in how we interacted in our team. We could support

each other and hold each other accountable as well. Then a few years

later, we actually did another session as well. We also did some

sessions with a focus on reconciliation and on understanding the

colonial history and its impact on Indigenous peoples.

In being able to do that training together, it meant that we could

really support each other in our self-awareness and our approach of

working in an anti-discriminatory way and an anti-racist way. So we

could really provide safe feedback to each other as well, and safe

spaces for reflection and for ongoing learning as well.

Something else that, of course, happens out in community and at

lots of other board levels is making sure that there’s a really good,

solid approach to governance. We need to make sure that we’re very clear

about the roles and expectations and where that accountability lies.

These changes in legislation will also improve governance. The new

legislation clarifies the role of a regulatory college board as

functioning exclusively in the public interest. That really anchors the

accountability of the health professionals.

It actually is going to help us to shift away from the election of

health profession board members and create a system where all board

members are appointed based on competency. It will establish smaller

boards of regulatory colleges, with equal numbers of public and health

profession board members. Members of the public will be on these boards,

and that will really reinforce that accountability, making sure that the

services that are being delivered by these regulated health

professionals are in the public interest.

There will be a streamlined path to reducing the number of

regulatory colleges through amalgamation as well. To improve efficiency,

we’ve taken action since 2017, when we passed legislation to allow

colleges to amalga­mate. Since then, we’ve reduced the number of

colleges from 22 to 15.

Under the Health Professions and Occupations Act, amalgamations

will continue to happen, and it will then be with a more streamlined

process as well. Ultimately, the total number of these colleges will

actually be six. That will enhance their ability to regulate. It will

make it much less confusing for patients who need to know where to

direct their concerns or their complaints or their questions as

well.

There will be a new discipline process with improved transparency

as well. Now, the complaints and adjudica­tions system will have a

new complaints process that’s going to separate out the investigation

stage, which will remain with the regulatory colleges, and also the

discipline stage, which will actually then be handled by an independent

discipline body.

[11:45 a.m.]

Information about all discipline imposed during a discipline

hearing and about all agreements made between regulatory colleges and

health professionals will be public in order to increase

transparency.

The regulatory colleges will provide support workers. These are

new positions for people who have experienced sexual misconduct, sexual

abuse or discrimination from regulated health practitioners to help

navigate through the complaints process in a safe and trauma-informed

way.

The regulatory colleges will also fund counselling for people who

have experienced sexual abuse, sexual misconduct or discrimination from

regulated health practitioners. The colleges will be able to recover the

associated costs from regulated health practitioners found to have

committed harm.

I know how important this is to be really clear about the process

of making a complaint, having worked in the field and having had to hear

complaints from people who have had issues with services that they’ve

received. Having personally had to make a complaint against a health

authority as well, I know that it’s actually really difficult to

separate out process from experience.

If you’ve had a traumatizing experience, when you then get into a

complaint system, it can actually be really triggering and

re-traumatizing to have to tell your story again and to be asking for

some kind of response that actually validates what you’ve been saying

and provides some kind of remedy for the harm that you have experienced

in that system, whether it’s the health system or the community social

services system.

It’s actually really difficult to make a complaint when you feel

that you have had some kind of trauma and some kind of harm in the

system. Making improvements to the system will actually mean that more

people are able to express their concerns and talk about the issues that

they had experienced in the system. And it means that the discipline of

the person who was responsible for that harm that you’d experienced is

actually handled independently. That will give people more confidence in

the system that they will be listened to and that there will be an

appropriate remedy for what has happened.

Many people will make a complaint. Many people report harms and

issues because they don’t want it to happen to someone else. They

actually want there to be some kind of a remedy so that that kind of

practice that they experienced as harmful isn’t actually then going to

traumatize somebody else.

Also, having this new role of support workers is really important.

It can be very lonely and very difficult to navigate a bureaucratic

complaint system that you probably feel is set up as a defence mechanism

to protect the people who you’ve come into contact with and who you feel

have harmed you.

So actually having support workers — and this is a new role — to

support people who’ve experienced some kind of a traumatic experience is

going to be very beneficial for British Columbians. It’s going to

provide more protection.

The other thing that’s really important, as well, is that even

before your complaint has been finalized or ended but as soon as knowing

that you’ve had a really significant impact of your experience, you’ll

be able to access some counselling and the supports that you need. You

don’t have to have finished in the complaints process before you

actually access those supports.

We know, and I know from having worked in the field for so long,

that the sooner you receive supports after having experienced some kind

of traumatizing event or experience…. It’s not just a one-off event,

necessarily. There’s often a lot of dismantling of your confidence and

an in­crease in your vulnerability and a taking advantage of your

vulnerability that leaves its mark and that actually has done the

damage.

Making sure that you are able to receive support and counselling

as early as possible in the process means that you’re much more likely

to have improved, longer-term outcomes and be able to recover from

whatever it was that the system had harmed you with as well.

These support workers are not just there to support a complainant

through the complaints process. They’re also there to provide

recommendations and to monitor the process, as well, to make sure that

it is safe and trauma-informed.

Now, it’s really important that services and systems are designed

to be trauma-informed. It takes a lot of thinking, and it takes a lot of

understanding.

[11:50 a.m.]

At every step along the way, there needs to be a meaningful design

in the system to make sure that it’s accessible and that no more harm is

done. Having that understanding from a trauma-informed perspective means

that you actually understand the impact of trauma on people and how they

will then be able to or not be able to continue engaging with that

particular system and continue having the conversation with people in

the system that you actually feel has harmed you.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

The new Health Professions and Occupations Act is very significant

in that it establishes clear

definitions for sexual misconduct and

sexual abuse. Having worked in the field for decades and having

specialized in child sexual abuse, I know how vulnerable people can be

in these kinds of systems to being exposed to abuse, to being made to

feel more vulnerable and to have that vulnerability

exploited.

It’s really important that we modernize the system and make sure

that we recognize exactly what sexual misconduct and sexual abuse are,

where there are risks for it occurring, and put every safeguard that we

can in the system to make sure that nobody is exposed to those kinds of

harms.

People come to professional health services because they need help

and because they are feeling vulnerable in some kind of a way around

some kind of a personal or health issue. They’re looking for a trusted

person. A trained person. Someone with knowledge and insight who is

there to care for them and to help them. So it’s really important that

we have a very robust system to make sure that any kind of concerns that

sexual abuse or sexual misconduct is occurring — that that is addressed

immediately and swiftly and quickly.

By defining these terms, we have a clear understanding of what

these kinds of harmful behaviors are, and that means that we will be

able to better hold regulated health practitioners who commit these

harms accountable for their actions and help ensure that the severity of

discipline matches the severity of the incident. Clear

definitions also

enhance the public understanding of what is prohibited and the basis for

which complaints can be made.

This is a first step. We know that we need to continue making

improvements in the system, but these are significant changes that will

provide stronger accountability and better protections for British

Columbians, especially at a time of vulnerability when they’re coming

into contact with the health system and with regulated

professionals.

Thank you so much for the time.

I move adjournment of the debate.

Question of Privilege

(Reservation of Right)

S. Furstenau: I rise to reserve my right to raise a question of privilege relating

to comments made by the Health Minister and others during question

period.

Hon. M. Dean moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. S. Robinson moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:53 a.m.

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