May 2, 2007 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLV No. 6

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

This afternoon we have members' statements as follows: the hon. the Member

for Windsor-Springdale; the hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans; the hon.

the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde; the hon. the Member for Port de Grave; the

hon. the Member for Terra Nova; and, the hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Windsor-Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker and hon. colleagues, I rise before this House today to

congratulate Patrick Edison of Springdale for being the winner of this year's

Annual Kiwanis Music Festival.

Patrick, who attends Indian River High School, came first in such events as:

operatic solo, traditional folk, Newfoundland folk, Broadway movies, vocal

concert group, vocal quick study, vocal sight reading, and French art. Once

again, the youth of our rural Newfoundland communities are showing their

talents.

I would ask my hon. colleagues to join with me in congratulating Patrick

Edison, as well as his fellow competitors, for a job well done.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the Committee Against Violence in

Central Newfoundland who recently celebrated fifteen years of service.

The Committee Against Violence was formed in 1991 by a small group of people

concerned about family violence in the Central Region. This initial group of

twelve, representing community and government agencies, quickly established the

reputation as a group aggressively working to eradicate violence in homes and

communities by increasing awareness, engaging the public and media, and

advocating on behalf of victims of violence.

The Central West Committee Against Violence have been proactive in their

mandate to seek long-term solutions to end violence. This group developed a book

they entitled Trevor and the Bully , to promote awareness against bullying

in the schools. This book was put into circulation by my colleague, the Member

for Grand Bank, when she was the Minister of Education, and is still used in

every school in our Province today.

The Central Co-ordinator, Ms Lorraine Hearn, and the volunteers who initially

founded this group are still involved and are to be commended for the valuable

work they do in Central Newfoundland.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in

congratulating the Committee Against Violence in Central Newfoundland on

celebrating fifteen years of service, and wish them continued success.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde.

MS JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, today I would like to commend a group of women from Hant's

Harbour, Trinity Bay: Delilah Bown, Audrey Janes, Fran Pelley, Gertie Pelley and

Joyce Smith, who have clearly demonstrated their civic pride over the past six

years through their recycling efforts.

These active ladies are not only representative of healthy living but are

true examples of promoting a clean environment. These women, in their sixties

and seventies, walk together every single day to collect recyclables and prepare

them for the depot in Old Perlican. To date, they have collected over 200,000

bottles and cans, which has netted approximately $10,000. Proceeds go to the

Willow Tree Heritage Society of Hant's Harbour, of which the ladies are

members. President Carl Smith says the society plans to use some of this money

to repair the roof of the museum.

Mr. Speaker, the action of these individuals is a wonderful example of how

community spirit is kept alive and well through such volunteer efforts.

I would ask that all Members of this House of Assembly join me in commending

these ladies for their selfless efforts on behalf of their community.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to extend

congratulations on the Sixth Annual Run for The Janeway, which took place in

Shearstown on March 31.

Mr. Speaker, over 700 riders of all ages turned out in Shearstown to take

part in the twenty-two kilometre run, which raised over $60,000 for the Janeway

Children's Wish Foundation. Weather and trail conditions prevented the run

from going ahead as scheduled, so it had to be rescheduled.

The numbers were not sufficient to break the Guinness Book of World Records

for the most ATVs assembled in one place, but the event was still a monetary

success as well as a strong show of community spirit. Every dollar raised goes

directly towards purchasing medical equipment for the children of Newfoundland

and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, since 2002 the Annual Run for The Janeway has raised

approximately $375,000 for the hospital. It is the largest amount of funds ever

raised by a community group for the Janeway. The majority of medical equipment

has a lifespan of between three and ten years and the necessary equipment and

technology is constantly changing. Therefore, the list is usually extensive and

expensive. The funds raised by the Annual Run for the Janeway assists the

Janeway Foundation in purchasing such equipment.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending

congratulations to all participants and the organizers of the Sixth Annual Run

for the Janeway.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak of a tremendous individual from my

district, Mrs. Viola Diamond. Mrs. Diamond was recently honoured at the annual

Glovertown Volunteer Fire Department's Firemen's Ball. Mrs. Diamond was

presented with a plaque recognizing her as a founding member and the first fire

chief of the department which was formed in 1963. She was also one of the first

females to hold the position of Fire Chief in the Province. In addition, Mrs.

Diamond, along with her husband Ken, provided the fire department with its very

first fire truck.

Aside from her involvement in the fire department, Mrs. Diamond was also a

member of the municipal council, and participated actively in many other

volunteer community organizations. Now in her ninety-fourth year, Mrs. Diamond,

up until last week, still resided in her private residence in Glovertown. Up

until one year ago, Mrs. Diamond was still the issuer of marriage licences and

was Commissioner for Oaths, witnessing many documents every day.

Mrs. Diamond's commitment to her community and Province is a shining

testament to her passion for rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

I would ask that all hon .members join with me today in paying tribute to a

remarkable Newfoundlander and Labradorian.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. ANDERSEN: Mr. Speaker, a short while ago the community of Labrador,

in particular the Innu community, was saddened with the passing of Rose Gregoire,

an Innu woman from the community of Sheshatshiu. Rose was a strong voice for

women and children's rights, including justice for victims of sexual abuse.

She was also a strong proponent for community healing. Her dream was to help the

Innu become self-reliant.

Rose Gregoire was held in the highest regard by those she encountered, for

her passion, great intelligence and humour, and yes, Mr. Speaker, for telling

the government of the day, in no uncertain terms, exactly how she felt about her

people and their land. Until her passing, she was a community social worker in

Sheshatshiu and managed mental health and addiction programs in her community.

Mr. Speaker, after she left school, she went on to earn a nursing assistant

diploma in St. John's in 1969. Some of her many jobs in the medical community

of Labrador included work for the Grenfell Hospital in Northwest River,

counsellor for the alcohol program in Sheshatshiu with social services, as well

as operating a women's shelter for women and families escaping from violence

in their homes. Many of these programs were ones she helped create and nurture.

Her longtime coworker and friend, Mary Mae Osmond, insisted Rose was at the

center of everything good that was happening at Sheshatshiu and for her people.

Osmond concluded: We hope to achieve what she fought for and what she dreamed

of, which was a healthy community.

Mr. Speaker, her dedication and devotion for Innu people was second only to

her love for her companion, Richard Adams, and their children. Labrador has lost

one of its strongest daughters, a human being, a friend, a mother and a voice, a

voice which will continue to give the Aboriginal community courage, strength and

support throughout the years to come.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in expressing our

condolences to the family of the late Rose Gregoire.

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Business.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, I rise today, along with my hon. colleague,

the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women, Joan Burke, to recognize the

work of the Newfoundland and Labrador Organization of Women Entrepreneurs, NLOWE,

and the success of their first national women in business conference,

Connections. Hundreds of women entrepreneurs from across the country gathered in

St. John's from April 24 to April 26 to learn from a lineup of first-class

speakers, to network, and to do business.

This year marks the tenth anniversary of NLOWE and the Entrepreneur of the

Year Awards. NLOWE continues to support women's contributions to economic

development and foster the success of women in business. Not only is this

organization assisting women entrepreneurs grow successful, leading-edge

businesses, they are creating a network of business leaders and a knowledge

centre for young female entrepreneurs.

Mr. Speaker, the provincial government was a proud sponsor of Connections. It

was an opportunity for the Province to showcase our world famous hospitality and

culture. My colleague, Minister Joan Burke, spoke to delegates during the

opening reception of Connections, and I had the pleasure of addressing the group

during the final event, the 2007 Entrepreneur of the Year Awards. The energy and

the positive attitude of the business leaders at the conference was

overwhelming. These are a group of business leaders who contribute significantly

to our provincial economy, and both myself and Minister Burke were honoured to

participate.

During the awards gala on April 26, I had the opportunity to communicate some

of the key announcements as part of Budget 2007. Business leaders in attendance

positive business environment and promoting growth in Newfoundland and Labrador.

The reductions in personal income tax rates and $32 million for the Department

of Business to attract new business to Newfoundland and Labrador were very

positively received. Entrepreneurs in the audience were also pleased to learn

about the adjustment of a small business threshold under corporate income tax

from $300,000 to $400,000, and, of course, the over 170 fees reduced or

eliminated.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate NLOWE on a very successful

conference and Entrepreneur of the Year awards gala, and for their ten years of

operations. NLOWE and its programs provide the best practices for successful

associations and I want to recognize their executive staff and numerous

volunteers for ten years of success.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am delighted today to stand in response to the minister's statement. It

is a very positive statement, and I want to congratulate NLOWE.

I have known and been a part of their formation ten years ago and I have

watched the success they have had over the past ten years; and to think that

here in Newfoundland we have been able to stage a national conference. I looked

at the line-up of motivational speakers who were there at that conference and it

was really impressive.

I have to say, that most of the new businesses being started today, the

majority of them, are by women. I do not know why the Minister of Business was

overwhelmed because there is a lot of energy generated from women in business

and you have to acknowledge that. Women entrepreneurs today are leading the

pack.

I want to say, at that particular conference we had a woman from Grand

Falls-Windsor, Bernice Walker from Corona College, who was designated as the

Entrepreneur of the Year for Central Newfoundland. You might not have heard, one

of the programs that is now being offered at Corona College is underground

mining. Of course, next week I will have the opportunity to go to Aur Resources

when they have their official opening.

Women are doing good things, good things are happening by women in business,

and I want to say congratulations and I wish them success in the future.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you to the minister for the advance copy.

I, too, am really pleased to stand and congratulate NLOWE and to also note

that the government does support the work of this organization and its members.

I, too, have been very pleased in the past to have some connections with the

organization and to have attended their wonderful events over the years.

I would like to say that women entrepreneurs have many barriers that they

have to face. One of the ones that I know of, and I know of because of NLOWE

itself talking about it, and women entrepreneurs who are friends of mine, what

they have to face is the problem of child care, and very often women

entrepreneurs are at home doing double work.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS MICHAEL: By leave, please?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Just to say that this is a major barrier for them. They are at home working

with the children, and many of them would prefer not to have to work with their

children at home. They would prefer to have the children in child care, so I

would encourage the government to see this as another reason for looking at a

child care program to support the many hundreds of women who are going into

their own businesses, and we could increase that number by having a full child

care program.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I guess my questions today are for the Deputy Premier. I asked them of a

bunch of ministers over there yesterday, but he told me that he was the only one

permitted to answer them, so we will start off with him today, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the head office for FPI which oversees all of FPI's

operations, including the secondary processing and the American division, is

located on O'Leary Avenue in St. John's. Currently there are 120 employees

in that office, and I am sure the Deputy Premier, like myself, received numerous

e-mails from those individuals this morning wondering if he has talked to OCI or

High Liner of Nova Scotia about how many jobs will be left when the company is

split up and sold.

Minister, what are the odds that High Liner, a company based in Nova Scotia,

will be running its American division out of O'Leary Avenue?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in response to the

preamble to the hon. member's question, let

me say that every minister on this side of the House is encouraged to answer

questions when they are questions that are relative to the portfolios for which

the ministers are responsible. When they are political rhetoric and things of

that nature that need perhaps a more political response from the government, I

will exercise the right as Deputy Premier to answer them or, you know, I will

sit down and let other ministers answer them if they wish.

Now, on the particular question raised by the Leader of the Opposition, Mr.

Speaker, look, we are very, very cognizant of the staff at FPI headquarters here

on O'Leary Avenue. Yes, I have received correspondence from them today, as has

the Leader of the Opposition.

In the days to come, as we negotiate term sheets with OCI and High Liner, we

will be using every avenue at our disposal to ensure that as many jobs as

possible - all if possible, I do not know, but certainly as many jobs as

possible - are protected here in Newfoundland and Labrador, for Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians, and the people who are working here today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: I ask all hon. members, when posing their questions and

giving their responses - the

preambles on either side of the House take up extra

time - if we could keep directly to the questions and to the answers, we could

get more questions in.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I questioned the government on its decision to give a

select few employees in the Premier's office increases that amounted to

$100,000. After reviewing the Budget Estimates since 1988, it appears that there

is an interesting phenomenon that has taken place. The last time that the salary

budget in the Premier's office topped the $1 million mark was in 1988-1989

when Brian Peckford was replaced by the now Deputy Premier.

I ask the Deputy Premier: Are we about to return to the days of private

dining rooms stocked with cigars and alcohol, and are we also going to return to

the days of limousines for the Premier's office?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Surely, Mr. Speaker, you would not expect me to rise and not

respond to that bait. There is nothing cuter in this world than Liberals who

have been given the royal order of the boot.

Mr. Speaker, when the government changed in 2003 there were twenty-five

people on staff - on staff, now, for people to visibly see in the Premier's

office. They were being paid, in 2003 dollars, real dollars of the day,

$1,328,237.22 - twenty-five people on staff in the Premier's office in 2003 -

but Liberals are cute, Mr. Speaker. They are as cute as mortal sin, because they

had six more staffers, two hid in the government member's office on the

payroll and six more hid in Executive Council, who were on the payroll and not

accounted for at all, so a total of thirty-one people. God knows what the final

salary figure was, but the salary figure for the twenty-five was $1.328 million.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Deputy Premier, he knows full well about the royal boot. He got

it in 1989.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, in 1988-1989 the budget salaries in the Premier's

office were almost $1.5 million. The numbers dropped by approximately $600,000

under Clyde Wells, and remained under $1 million until this Tory government took

power in 2003.

The optics of a leaner Premier's office are an obvious myth, as this year

the budget salaries have once again topped $1 million. In fact, they are closer

to $1.4 million, the highest that they have been since 1988-1989.

I ask the Deputy Premier: Now that you have set the precedent again by giving

political staff in the Premier's office increases between 8 per cent and 17

per cent just this week, what can the public service employees, such as nurses,

X-ray technicians, security guards, teachers, and all of those individuals, what

can they expect when they go back to the bargaining table with your government?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I got the royal order of the boot in 1989,

but I did not wait for two-and-a-half years to ask the people to give it to me,

I can tell you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: I did not cling on to power by my fingernails, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: I did not cling on, waiting for the Lieutenant-Governor to

have to come and hand spike me out of office, Mr. Speaker. I went to the people

and I presented an option to the people. The people chose another one. That is

democracy, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: I will tell you, Mr. Speaker, what a PC Government will not

do. We will not do what the Liberals did back when they were in power. We will

not negotiate contracts and raises with our employees and then come in here in

the Legislature and roll them back. We will not do that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: We will not give with one hand and take away with other. We

will negotiate in good faith with our employees, and our employees can be

expected to be treated honourably, fairly and above board by this government,

Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What a gall to stand up there! I guess he forgets what his Premier said

during the election campaign in 2003, that he would never use the power of the

Legislature to legislate civil servants back to work. So much for promises and

commitments, I say to the minister.

Mr. Speaker, let's move away from the Premier's office and let's get

into the bowels of the ministers' offices. In the Budget documents released

last week, it was revealed that ministers spent over $350,000 more than was

approved in their budget last year on political staff in their offices.

I ask the Deputy Premier: Why were ministers permitted to overspend their

ministerial office budget to beef up the political staff in their departments?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, there has been no beefing up of political staff

in ministers' offices. The political staff that was in ministers' offices

when we became the government in 2003 was an executive assistance to a minister,

a constituency assistant to look out to your district, which I believe was

stalled under the old Administration, and this one has a political secretary to

a minister - I believe is the way it goes, that is the way it was stalled - and

a departmental secretary to the minister. I think in most cases there was a

Director of Communications, but that was not attached to the minister's office

when they were in power, it is not today, it is attached to the department.

These are the same political positions that exist in ministers' offices

today. Mr. Speaker, we have not expanded the political staff in ministers'

offices. If the pay has gone up, of course it has gone up. There have been

steps, there have been increases to attract the public service. So, Mr. Speaker,

that has happened but there has been no increase in the amount of political

staff in ministers' offices, that I know of, since we became the government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

[Fire alarm bells sounds]

MR. REID: That is what happens, Mr. Speaker, the hot air in the House of

Assembly is catching her on fire.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The House will recess.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

(Inaudible) vacated because of a fire alarm. We need to get some direction

from the House. Usually, on Wednesday, we would go to Private Members' Day at

3:00 p.m. Do I assume that we will continue with routine proceedings, including

Question Period, and then we will look for further direction as the House

Leaders may wish to dialogue?

I read it that we had spent ten minutes in Question Period, there is twenty

minutes remaining, and that the Chair was about to recognize the hon. the Leader

of the Opposition.

MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just before we were interrupted, the Deputy Premier stated that there were no

additional political staff members hired in the ministers' offices around

government last year. I say to the minister, if that is the case then, Minister,

I say to you that most of your Cabinet colleagues must have given their

political staff raises while, in fact, all over civil servants were under a wage

freeze; because all you have to do is look at the departments.

The Department of Tourism, for example, overspent their ministerial salary

budget by $27,000 last year. The Department of Health overspent theirs by

$68,000 last year. The Department of Natural Resources overspent by $84,000 last

year. The Department of Fisheries, your own department, Minister, you should

know this one, you overspent the salaries for your own office by $76,000 a year.

I ask the Deputy Premier: Are you and your colleagues out of control to the

extent that you do not even know how much money you are spending on your

political cronies, or is it that you just do not really care?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, after that question there is no wonder that the

Liberal retreat bugle had been sounded, because that would make you want to

retreat from something, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, we had our Estimates in our department

yesterday. If the Leader of the Opposition was so concerned about that question,

he could have brought it up during the Estimates Committee.

MR. REID: I did.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, they never questioned salaries in the minister's

office. They did question -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, do I have a right to answer here or don't I?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Government House Leader. I ask for members

to give -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Government House Leader, and I ask members

for their co-operation.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I was about to the say to the Member for the

Bay of Islands, who is in his seat, there were questions indeed about salary

increases in various heads in the department, but not in the minister's

office, and the minutes will show that.

Anyway, that aside, there were no, other than normal, increases for any

political staff, that I am aware off, in any department of this government.

None. There were step increases, yes. We tracked the civil service. If that is 3

per cent or 2.5 per cent, whatever that was, that is built in, Mr. Speaker.

In the case of my own department, some months ago there was a transfer into

the department of a parliamentary secretary for a number of months. That would

be reflected in the salary at the minister's office. There was a transfer in,

of the parliamentary secretary's constituency assistant, because that is paid

out of the department's office that the person is -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. RIDEOUT: They are so. They are not paid out of the House of Assembly,

if you are a minister or a parliamentary secretary. They are paid out of the

salary of the department (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

Mr. Speaker, on Friday past, Ms Joan Cleary, the former President of the Bull

Arm Site Corporation, announced her intention to seek the PC nomination in the

District of Bellevue for the upcoming provincial election.

As people might recall, this is the same individual who was removed from her

position last fall because of incompetence and breaking the Public Tender Act.

To be more blunt, she broke the law and was fired.

Our office submitted an Access to Information Request; plus, I asked

questions in this House in the last sitting related to Ms Cleary. The request is

not due until the end of this week because the government, instead of being open

and transparent, chose to insist upon the guidelines in the ATIPP act being

enforced.

In the spirit of openness and accountability, and in view of the fact that

the nomination closes today, will the minister table that information

immediately, so everyone in this Province will have that information before Ms

Cleary becomes a candidate?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, a request was made in accordance with the

provisions of the act that the hon. member refers to. That information has been

completed. It is going to be presented in due course. It will be done in

accordance with the terms and the provisions of the act. When it is released,

the information will be made not only, Mr. Speaker, to the hon. member but,

indeed, to the people of the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am concerned when I get an answer from this particular minister. He is the

same guy, the same Minister of the Crown, who back in this House in December,

when I started asking these questions about Bull Arm, said everything was

squeaky clean. Now, that was not the outcome of it. I say to the minister, you

cannot hide behind, or you should not hide behind, the ATIPP Act, particularly

in view of the fact that the Minister of Natural Resources, when I asked this

question - when we sat here in this House about three weeks ago I asked her if

we could have the information and would she table it, she said yes. It is after

that, that the law, the ATIPP Act, was put into effect. So, they have not given

it, up to this point.

Mr. Speaker, last fall the Premier fired Ms Cleary for her incompetence and

for breaking the Public Tender Act. I ask the Premier: Why would you endorse a

candidate who was fired for incompetence and breaking the Province's public

tendering laws? If she was too incompetent to work for government, why would you

have her as a potential member of your caucus?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, Ms Cleary -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, the person to whom the hon. member is

referring, Ms Cleary, is a hardworking, enthusiastic -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. members who are interrupting may be named if I do not get

co-operation.

The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The individual to which the hon. member refers, Mr. Speaker, Ms Cleary, is a

hardworking, enthusiastic individual who is free to seek the nomination of any

political party in this Province. Mr. Speaker, in her wisdom she has chosen,

quite wisely, the Progressive Conservative Party, and, Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I would like to add, if I understand

correctly, she is one of four individuals who is seeking the nomination for the

Progressive Conservative Party for Newfoundland and Labrador in the provincial

District of Bellevue. Mr. Speaker, for that, I commend her.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, we know all about Ms Cleary's enthusiasm. She

was very enthusiastic in spending taxpayers' money with her political buddies.

That is what she was enthusiastic about and that is why this government had to

remove her from that position.

I say to the minister, it was a simple question when I asked it three weeks

ago. It is still a simple question. It is not a piece of information that it

takes an accountant to go search for months for. Will you tell this House, and

the people of this Province, was Ms Cleary paid severance, and, if so, how much?

That was the question we started all of this with three weeks ago and you are

hiding that information.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, that was not the question three weeks ago.

That was the question just moments ago, and if he were to ask that question I

would have been pleased to answer it. He will get the information in a few days,

but I am sure he is waiting. I am sure he cannot wait and he is quite anxious

for the answer. Well, I will alleviate him of that unnecessary stress, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, yes, in accordance with the terms and

provisions of an employment contract, Ms Cleary is and was entitled to

severance. It was done. It was clear, in accordance with the terms and the

provisions of the contract, that she would be entitled to severance. There were

some concerns, Mr. Speaker, at the time. Ms Cleary tendered her resignation. Her

resignation was accepted by my colleague, who is in Houston today at an oil

show. It was accepted by my colleague, the Minister of Natural Resources, and in

accordance with the terms and provisions of an employment contract, severance

was paid, as she was duly owed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, like this government, you have to pick it out with a - I do not know

what, because they hide it so deep. You just cannot get it. Even now the

minister is up saying: I will alleviate your concerns and tell the people.

What amount was she paid for severance? I say to the minister, as well, if

you are so sure of what happened here: She did not resign, she was asked to

resign. Now, that is the same as being fired. In anybody else's books, when I

ask you to resign I am firing you.

I say to the minister: How much was she paid, and can we have a copy of the

employment contract to see if the amounts that you claim were legitimately paid

under an employment contract were, in fact, legitimate?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the terms of the employment contract were clear. Ms Cleary

tendered her resignation. It was accepted by my colleague in accordance with the

terms and the provisions of the employment contract.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: She was entitled to severance. It was clear, otherwise

there were legal issues that would have to be addressed, and quite appropriately

would there be legal issues that would have to be addressed.

Again, because I am certain that the hon. member cannot wait for a few hours

to allow the ATIPP process to complete, I will again alleviate him of that

particular stress. Ms Cleary was, in fact, paid $40,000 in severance, to which

she was entitled.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, there have been media reports about the

offensive way this Province is treating people with disabilities when they apply

to Motor Vehicle Registration for a parking permit. I have also received calls

from people who say they feel bullied and threatened and are asked for

inappropriate information.

I ask the minister: Has she reviewed the situation in relation to the way her

department is treating people with physical disabilities, and will she be making

changes in this policy?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank my hon. colleague for the question.

Yes, I have looked into it. Actually, the process has not been changed to

apply for a mobility parking permit. In fact, there is a process that they have

to go through, a form that they have to fill out and on the form they have to

tick off certain things and their doctor provides that information to us.

I would like to tell the people in Newfoundland and Labrador who require

those permits, not to be deterred to apply for those because there has been

nothing changed.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Well, minister, other jurisdictions in this Province are

going to great lengths to try to make things easier for people with disabilities

to make them more mobile.

Whereas in this jurisdiction, Madam Minister, things

are bogging down. One lady in particular, it cost her $90 before she got her

parking permit.

Mr. Speaker, the government seems to be standing in the way of making life

easier for these individuals. Will the minister review this whole process and

treat people with disabilities with more dignity?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, we have 20,000 active medical files in our

system. Out of that, we do 250 road assessments per year. The form is there. If

there is any information that is required, we will follow up with it, but not

necessarily so does this trigger off people having to take road assessment

tests. It is only when an individual discloses, or their doctor, or the RNC or

RCMP notices their driving that triggers that off. The fact of the matter is, we

are, indeed, having those parking permits for our persons with disabilities, and

there has been nothing changed in the system. As I said when I was interviewed

by reporters last evening, if there is an individual out there who has a

concern, they can contact my office and I will certainly look into their case.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.

MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, maybe she does need to

look into the system and make some changes because people are telling me that

some of the questions which are being asked to them by Motor Registration

Division are way to personal. I refer to the question that the doctor has to

fill out regarding personal life styles. People are being sent back to the

doctor several times because doctors refuse to answer the question because they

feel they are none of anyone's business regarding a parking permit. In fact,

Mr. Speaker, some people with disabilities are telling me they are so upset with

the process, and in some cases after paying almost $100 for examinations, that

they are not even going to apply for a parking permit anymore, which they are

entitled to as a person with a disability.

I ask the minister, again: Will she listen to the serious concerns that are

being raised by people with disabilities and will she put in place policies that

will encourage mobility, rather than simply throwing up unnecessary road blocks?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, MRD has a responsibility to ensure that our

drivers are indeed safe when they are on the roads. I would think that the

individuals who are applying for those permits are equally responsible to make

sure of their safety on the road.

I will say to my hon. colleague, the process has not changed. It is a very

simple form. If the information comes in, we do have a doctor on staff who will

review those applications. If there is any more information required, we will go

back to them with their doctors.

I would like to say to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, those parking

permits are there for them and they can apply for them at anytime. There is a

process they have to go through. There is no one being targeted, and we want to

make like easier for those persons with disabilities.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi-Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

My question today is for the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

Climate change measures introduced in Budget 2007 do not compare well to

those introduced by other provinces this year. There is no provincial money to

implement the Climate Change Action Plan and to make it a real plan with

commitments, not just ideas. However, the Premier was heard on national radio

this morning saying that the Northwest Territories and Nunavut premiers had

converted him at yesterday's meeting of Premiers on the need to move forward

on climate change.

My question for the minister is: Will the government now take action as a

result of the Premier's recent conversion and put some real meat on the bones

of the Climate Change Action Plan by introducing more provincial energy

efficiency programs?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the hon. member for her question.

I do not suppose there is an issue more pressing with the population

provincially or nationally at this particular point. I am very pleased to say

that we have entered into an arrangement with the federal government which will

see $23 million coming to this Province. If she wants to talk about concrete

action, three initiatives are being undertaken. The efficiency of buildings,

waste management, and we put in place an innovation fund, Mr. Speaker, so that

we will encourage entrepreneurs, bright individuals to come forward with new

ideas where we can be even more proactive in climate change initiatives.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, we need more than one or two pieces of work

around climate change. People in this Province know that we need action on

climate change, and real action. For example, a home energy retrofit program,

incentives for buying energy efficient consumer goods and vehicles, or better

pollution control for vehicles.

My question, again, for the minister is: When will this government introduce

Province-wide initiatives to reduce our consumption of Greenhouse gas producing

energy?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would certainly suggest to the hon. member that she take a look at our

Climate Change Action Plan, because within that we have forty initiatives that

are aimed at exactly some of the initiatives she is talking about.

First and foremost, Mr. Speaker, the number one pollutant, possibly within

this Province, are the number of dump sites that we have. Therefore, in

co-operation with Municipal Affairs, we have targeted this as one of the

initiatives most important within this Province. We are very proactive and you

will see results coming within this year regarding that one initiative.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, on a final

supplementary.

MS MICHAEL: Mr. Speaker, as the minister as said, the people in this

Province, as well as in Canada, are giving high priority to this. Again, I think

what they want to know is what is the overall plan for all of those initiatives

that are in the plan? What are the actions? Let us know what year the others are

going to start.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, as I have said, I will certainly provide her

with a copy of the plan. If she is so inclined as to want to meet with officials

of the department to go through those initiatives, I would be more than willing

to sit with her and then she can determine if we are moving in the right

direction.

I certainly think, Mr. Speaker, that as a Province we are very proactive, we

are on the right path, and initiatives this year and in coming years will prove

that to the people of the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time allotted for Question Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. PARSONS: Could I have a minute?

Yesterday afternoon, I was not in the House - I raise a point of order - I

was not in the House personally, but the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development, when he was making comments -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. PARSONS: I wasn't here at the time.

MR. TAYLOR: (Inaudible).

MR. PARSONS: Maybe if the minister could stop talking long enough for me

to make the point.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. PARSONS: I think I am always respectful in this House of allowing

anyone to say what they wish to say, and I very rarely interrupt anyone. I am

just making the point here that I was not here when the statement was made.

The minister said, in his statements, and I have looked at Hansard because it

was brought to my attention, and he himself, I acknowledge, he said up front

that I am not going to suggest that it was intentional but that I uttered

misleading and utterly false statements in this House yesterday.

I think that is totally unparliamentary. I have never, ever, intentionally or

unintentionally made statements in this House that are utterly false. Never. I

have had differences of opinion with a good many people in this House, on both

sides, and do not mind doing so, and I always speak my mind.

I particularly was disturbed by the fact that I was not here when it was

said, when I could defend myself, and it was said by the minister when I was not

here.

I think, Mr. Speaker, it is a valid point of order. The word misleading

itself, I am not suggesting that is unparliamentary, but to suggest it in the

backhanded way that it was, and the context that it was, and to use the words

that I made utterly false statements in this House is unparliamentary and ought

not to be allowed to stand.

I think the minister should do the honourable thing and withdraw the remarks.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development.

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I said yesterday that the hon. member made false statements. I

said that they were misleading. I said I did not know if he made them

intentionally. I do not believe that he did, Mr. Speaker. I have no intention of

withdrawing anything that I said yesterday.

The fact of the matter was, yes, the member did leave the House as I was

speaking. I stood up. I can vividly recall, vividly see him over picking up his

books and putting them under his arm.

As I said before I started my debate, my twenty minutes of speech on the

Budget, I was going to deal with an issue related to Port aux Basques, that the

member had raised earlier under Ministerial Statements. I did it. I did say it

was false. They were false, the statements that he made, and they were

misleading.

My understanding of the rules of order, if you say that it is made

intentionally or if you say that a person is lying then you have to retract.

Other than that, it is my understanding that it is in order.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair was not in the Chair last evening when this matter occurred, so I

will take it under advisement and come back tomorrow, after I have read the

Hansard and after I have seen the tapes that might exist as well, and will have

a ruling made at that time.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: I appreciate that, Mr. Speaker.

Again, it is the attitude that concerns me here. Even today in his response

in speaking to the point of order, for the minister to suggest that I left the

House when he was talking about this, an absolute.... Now, there is a falsehood,

if we want to talk about falsehoods.

I had no idea. I have always defended and will continue to defend myself in

this House. I am not going to duck you or anyone else over there -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. PARSONS: - and to suggest that again in a backhanded way (inaudible)

unparliamentary.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair reminds all hon. members -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Colleagues, Parliament exists for debate. It exists for the sharing of

opinions. It only exists and functions well when there is mutual respect among

all members.

I want to remind all members that it is inappropriate on all occasions to

refer to the presence or the absence of members in the House. Members have to

understand that all members of the House, to fulfil their responsibilities to

their constituents, have to be absent from time to time. Therefore, it is well

established that we should not refer to the presence or the absence of hon.

members.

I do believe that it would be appropriate if we took that under some

advisement and followed the general parliamentary procedures.

The Chair again will take all matters, including when I look at the tape of

the whole circumstances, and bring back a ruling on the point of order on

tomorrow.

MR. TAYLOR: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the hon. the minister if he is raising a new point of

order?

MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, in response to -

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair has ruled that the point of order presentations

are finished. Unless the minister is standing on a new point of order, then we

have finished with the past point of order.

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural

Development, on a new point of order.

MR. TAYLOR: Yes, Mr. Speaker, it is to a new point of order. It is not

regarding the comments that I made yesterday. It is regarding the statement as

to whether or not people are in the House or out of the House.

I just want to point out that my only observation at any time about a member

being in or out of the House was in response to the member opposite, when he was

speaking earlier and he indicated that he had been out of the House, and I spoke

to that.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair rules again that once the Chair has made the

determination, I ask all members to respect that process. We should not use new

points of order to continue a matter that has already been decided and a process

is in place as announced by the Chair.

There is no point of order.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: It being Wednesday, I do believe that we have a private

member's motion by the hon. the Member for Terra Nova. The Chair would ask him

now to make his introductory comments.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege and an honour to talk about the private member's

motion today that was brought forth on Monday. I will read the private member's

motion because I think it certainly bears repeating. The motion states:

WHEREAS this government is committed to providing the necessary resources to

ensure a proper education for students in rural and urban Newfoundland and

Labrador; and

WHEREAS for the first time in our Province's history, government's

investment in education will exceed $1 billion; and

WHEREAS education is the key to accessing opportunity and self-reliance;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that all Members of the House of Assembly support

and endorse initiatives brought forward by this government for the betterment of

our children and their education.

Mr. Speaker, we brought forward this private member's resolution because we

are very, very proud of the announcements that were made in the Budget this year

concerning education. I have heard people say, time and time again, that our

children are Newfoundland and Labrador's future of tomorrow. They are the

residents of tomorrow.

I can tell you, quite frankly, that this government believes that our

children are actually the people of today. They are the people who mean

something today. We also realize today, as a government, that our children are

our greatest resource. Therefore, we do not just talk about that, Mr. Speaker.

We do not take the time just to discuss it or to put out some press release, but

we actually put our money where our mouth is, as people would say. This year, as

I just said a moment ago, and we are very, very pleased with this, the education

budget has surpassed $1 billion. That is a major initiative on behalf of this

government.

In fact, there is only one other department in government that actually has

more money put into it than education, and that is the Department of Health and

Community Services. Clearly, it shows that the education of our citizens is

definitely a priority for this government. Again, we are very, very pleased with

that.

For one thing, Mr. Speaker, we look at the teaching positions that have been

maintained. There is a drastic decline in the enrollment of kids in our schools,

and we realize that, from K-12; yet, we are still keeping the same number of

teachers in our system. That is good news for the young people in this Province,

it is good news for our teachers in this Province, and we are very pleased with

that.

Also, if you look at what we are doing today, we also invested $2 billion

into the Teachers' Pension Fund. That is an indication of where this

government is going in terms of the respect that we have for our teachers, and

the understanding that we have of our teachers.

I was thinking the other day, because I have a number of friends of mine who

are teachers in this Province, and more specifically teachers in rural areas,

you know, it is not an easy job. A lot of people in the Province look at

teachers as in thinking they go out there, they take the time to teach in the

wintertime, every holiday they have off, and they have the summer off, but I can

tell you, Mr. Speaker, that each and every teacher that I know in my district,

and certainly each and every teacher that I know who are friends of mine, they

go far and beyond what they need to do, or what they are paid to do, I should

say, Mr. Speaker.

The fact is that the teachers I know are teachers and people who take their

own vehicles day after day - they take their own vehicles - and they take teams,

whether it be sports teams, or it may be speak-off teams, and they go to other

communities completely on their own time, Mr. Speaker, because they believe in

the education of our students. Our government felt that it was very, very

important that we give back to teachers.

I am, again, very pleased that we did take this initiative, we did take care

of this pension fund that, of course, we inherited, a liability that was

astronomical, but today we can sit back very comfortably and know that we are

trying to take care of our teachers. An unprecedented investment in our K-12

system means better learning opportunities for our students.

One of the things in this Budget that I was very, very pleased with - I am

not going to take a lot of time right now because I want to just take a brief

time here to introduce this motion, but the fact is that one of the greatest

things that we did, and I think that we did - was the fact that we provided free

textbooks for all students from K-12. That is a huge initiative by this

government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Many times, you know, it is the middle-income earners who find

it very difficult to pay for books. I remember talking to parents time and time

again, even before I got involved in political life, of course, because, in

fact, at one point in time I was on the school council in the community that I

come from. At that time a number of parents expressed concern about, when

September rolls around, the worry of having to provide books and provide money

for books for young people, for their children. Today, this is a huge

investment.

As I travel around the district, I talk to so many people who are so pleased

about the fact that government has stepped up to the plate. I have heard many

governments talk about it in the past, I say to the hon. members. I have heard

many government say: We are going to do a lot. I have heard many governments

say: One of these days. I have heard many governments say: Do you know what? We

do the best that we can.

Today, with this Budget, we have stepped up to the plate and we have said:

Here is the money to do it. We realize the hardship that parents have, we

realize the hardship that young people have, and we are going to provide books

for our young people.

That is a major investment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Eight hundred thousand dollars for physical education equipment

to purchase for students from K-6. Again today, as the Minister of Health and

Community Services certainly realizes, one of the issues in this Province is

making sure that we live healthy. A lot of times a lot of us do not live that

healthy, and we do not exercise. You know what? That is certainly flowing over

into our kids.

Today, this government realizes the importance of providing physical

equipment for our students and we are doing that from K-6. Last year we put

money into our education system for physical education equipment and, you know,

with our new food promotions that we have had, and the guidelines that we have

had, we are providing healthy living among students from K-12, really. We are.

I have said this in this House before, and I will say it again, and I will

keep saying it, and I will say it forever and I will shout if from the rooftops,

that this government has invested more in education than any other government in

the history of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Mr. Speaker, I say that quite sincerely today, and I say that

not only sincerely; I say that because it is a fact.

You know, my daughter came home - and I keep telling this story and I will

tell it again and I will tell it again because we are proud of what we do. My

daughter came home and she said: Dad, guess what? This year - this was the past

year - we got new gym equipment so we can actually go out now and we can

exercise, and we have an opportunity to improve our health.

That is what this government is all about. It is all about improving the

lives of our students, improving the lives of the people of this Province, and

we continue to do that. We certainly realize that is important for the students

in Newfoundland and Labrador. Five point two million dollars will retain 137

teaching position.

I think I spoke about this the other day, which is a major accomplishment for

this government, we actually have a job fair, believe it or not. It is not just

Alberta coming here to have job fairs. We have a job fair, and guess what we are

doing? We are looking for more teachers. In fact, we are looking for up to 300

teachers.

Again, I hear the slurs back and forth across the House about the fact that

we do nothing for rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Do you realize the most of

these 300 positions are for rural Newfoundland and Labrador? - a rural

Newfoundland and Labrador initiative. Our government is committed to rural

Newfoundland and Labrador. Our government is committed to education. Our

government realizes that the infrastructure has fallen down.

The fact is that the previous government allowed the roofs to leak, they did

not put any investment back into the schools, but today we are putting millions

of dollars back into our schools to make sure that the maintenance is taken care

of, to make sure that we have proper buildings for our kids to be educated.

In fact, funding for repairs and maintenance - get this, because I think it

is very important that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador understand this -

funding for repairs and maintenance to schools has increased ninety-two cents

per square foot from, guess what it was before?

AN HON. MEMBER: Fifty-eight.

MR. ORAM: Fifty-five, I say to my hon. colleague, not fifty-eight.

Fifty-five. That is an increase of almost 50 per cent, and again it is the

commitment that this government has to education.

When you look at the additional money that is allocated for school extensions

and renovations, again I started to look down through this because I always

listen - I am from rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and I am very proud of that.

I support rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and I will add that rural

Newfoundland and Labrador has a great future. This government believes in rural

Newfoundland and Labrador, and I am going to show you how the proof is in the

pudding; because, again, we can talk about it forever. We can say that this

government believes in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, but unless we can show

it, and tangibly show it, it is no good. I am going to tell you this - look at

this - to date, new schools have been announced for: Mobile, rural Newfoundland

and Labrador; Port Saunders, rural Newfoundland and Labrador; L'Anse-au-Loup,

rural Newfoundland and Labrador; Placentia, rural Newfoundland and Labrador;

Baie Verte, rural Newfoundland and Labrador; and Torbay. Now, isn't that a

great initiative for this government? Thirty-three point one million dollars for

extensions and renovations to our schools. Again, it is an unprecedented amount

that this government sees fit to put into education.

Mr. Speaker, again, if we go to post-secondary education, just to talk for a

moment about post-secondary education, this government has implemented again

another tuition freeze. Again, another major initiative. We have also put in

place - we have also improved, I should say, an apprenticeship and skilled

trades program.

You know, when I was in school back in the 1980s, I remember at the time if

you were going to go out and take a trade, if you were going to go to trades

school, then you did not seem to have the same brains, we will say, or you did

not seem to be going the same places as a person who was going to go to

university. University was the be-all, end-all. Parents always told their kids,

you have to go to university, you have to go and you have to get a bachelor of

this or that, which is great. We need that, it is very important. The problem is

that we fell down on the trades in this Province. Government had to step up to

the plate and realize we are going to have a skilled trade shortage in a very,

very short time. Today our government is standing up. We are doing the things

that need to be done to increase awareness, to bring about more interest in the

skilled trades in our schools.

We have done, as I said, a tuition freeze. A debt reduction grant program has

been recently announced in the Budget. Again, a great initiative, $70 a week for

students. As I go out in my district and we talk about these initiatives that

are going on that government is doing, as soon as I talk to people, as soon as I

talk to young people, as soon as I talk to students with debt loads, they are so

very, very pleased that this government has stood up for the students of

Newfoundland and Labrador. They realize that debt load is very difficult. They

realize that students need a grant process where they can access funds, besides

the amount of money that they are borrowing.

Not only that, Mr. Speaker, if you look at the fact that interest rates are

very, very hard for young people - there are young people who have debt loads of

$30,000, $40,000 and $50,000 to educate themselves. The fact is this, this

government also realizes that a lot of these people actually have to leave the

Province to find jobs that can pay them even more money to try to pay down their

student debt. They cannot keep up with the interest rates. Well, this government

has announced that we are going to reduce the interest rate for students.

In fact, I talked to a particular student from my district just today. We

were trying to size up what this actually meant to the student. We realized that

for this one student that I talked to, I say to my hon. colleagues, for this one

student it meant that he would save $70 a month, based on this interest

reduction. That is a fabulous initiative. It is putting money back in the

pockets of our young people. It is giving them a reason to get out there and be

educated and come forward and work in this Province because we are doing what is

right for education in Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ORAM: Mr. Speaker, when you look at this motion today, it is a very

simple motion. I believe the Member for Bellevue said yesterday, if I am not

mistaken: Let's vote on it now. So I am going to take from that, that he is

supporting it, even though I should not put words in his mouth. Who could not

support initiatives that this government has brought forward in terms of

education? Who could not support that?

Again, this motion, I am pleased to bring it forward. This government is

pleased to bring this motion forward, and we believe that this is just the tip

of the iceberg. These initiatives that we brought forward in terms of education,

and certainly in terms of everything in this Province, but we are specifically

dealing with education, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much

more that will be done by this government, because, again, we realize today how

important education is in this Province. I am going to use the line that the

Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers' Association has been using, and I am going

to say this: On this side of the House, I can tell you this, it is hands up for

our students and for education in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me pleasure to stand and, I guess, use the time allocated with

regards to the private member's motion put forth by the hon. the Member for

Terra Nova. I want to say to him as well, when I look at his motion, that we on

this side of the House - I can assure you, there is nobody in this House of

Assembly who is not working when you are in the position for the betterment of

our children and the education of our youth in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: At this time, Mr. Speaker, I would like to put forth an

amendment to the motion put forth by the Member for Terra Nova. It reads: I move

that the motion be amended by adding at the end of the motion the following

words: While also calling on government to go further to address items such as

special needs students, curriculum problems, large class sizes and the need for

a comprehensive review of school repairs.

Mr. Speaker, I move that this amendment be put forward.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, if my friend would permit me a moment.

Certainly, as Government House Leader, I have not seen a copy of the proposed

amendment yet. I do not know if Your Honour has. Your Honour indicates to the

negative that he has not. I would certainly like an opportunity to have a look

at it. I believe the Chair would. Then we will pronounce on it. So, perhaps Your

Honour might want to consider the wisdom of just taking a few minutes recess so

we can all have a look at the proposed amendment.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

In such circumstances, it has been the tradition that the Chair will take a

brief recess to look at the amendment and then come back and rule as to whether

it is in order or not.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

(Inaudible) and the amendment is in order.

The Chair recognizes the Member for Port de Grave, to continue his

presentation.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I want to begin by saying, and I have said it any other time that I have

stood, that every Budget, I guess, that has ever been brought down in the House

of Assembly, whether here or in the Colonial Building, always has good in it for

the people of this Province. I guess, today, this Budget is no exception when we

look at some of the items under the education heading.

Having said that, I want to thank all of the groups and organizations out

there who have brought forth the concerns that have been expressed by not only

the students but the teachers and other professionals when it comes to

education.

I have to say that over the past two or three years the Opposition, whether

it is our Official Opposition or the members from the New Democratic Party, have

brought forward, with news releases, the concerns and issues that have been

expressed. To that end, Sir, I want to say to the government that some of those

issues have been addressed but we, today, want to take a few moments to touch on

some issues that we believe could have gone a little further, and some of them

probably that have not been recognized.

We hear talk about the money, the $5.2 million, that has been put into the

department to protect the 137 positions that are there. That is all fine and

wonderful, but I heard on Open Line last evening - I think the lady who was on

was from my hon. colleague's district who is bringing forth this motion -

about the concerns that were expressed about one of the particular schools, I

think it was at St. Brendan's, where they are going to lose a teaching unit.

The hon. member says he is not sure, and I am sure he will deal with that, but I

want to say to him, when he deals with that one particular issue, let me assure

you, that is only one incident.

I have been advised today, I hear on the Avalon and the Eastern School

District, that principals were called in last week about teaching units that are

going to be taken out of quite a few schools. The numbers I do not have, but I

do know, like in Trinity Bay, even in closer to St. John's, that units will be

taken out of the system.

I do not know about moving around, but they are losing them. If a school is

losing two units today, I can assure you that the concerns that they have put

forward over the recent weeks and months because they believe that their

programming is going to be affected, I think it has to be looked at.

The hon. Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne says this, and I am hoping what

when he hears from those people, and some of them may be in his district, he

will stand and address the issue.

My hon. colleague from Terra Nova also mentioned some other issues which I

just want to touch on. I know probably I am going off on the far end of this

when he mentioned about all the gym equipment going into the schools. I want to

say to him, there was gym equipment in many schools in this Province before

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BUTLER: Well, maybe there are some schools, maybe some schools, but I

want to say to Mr. Speaker and to this hon. House - and there were many new

schools. The new schools that are being built today, under this Budget, I

congratulate the government. The people who are getting them deserve them, but

there were many schools, let me assure you, new schools, built in districts

belonging to members on both sides of this House that have been built by former

Administrations.

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about maintaining the teaching levels in the

schools, and it is a major concern for many people who bring that issue forward.

There are other issues I want to touch on. With regard to the ISSP report

with regard to teacher allocations and Pathways, I know for a fact that - I

think this report has been brought down. I know the minister has seen a copy of

the report, to my understanding. I asked her during the Estimates one evening

this week, once the report is tabled and there are changes to be made, is there

funding available so that those issues can be dealt with? I was told by the

minister that, as of now, there is no funding set aside in this Budget that

would look after any of the issues or concerns that may have been tabled at that

time.

We hear talk about the free books for Grade 9-Level III, a wonderful program.

I can tell you that we, on this side, fought for that and we are glad that the

government listened and have gone ahead with that to date, no back doors about

it.

MR. DENINE: (Inaudible) when you were in there?

MR. BUTLER: The hon. Member for Mount Pearl says: Why wasn't it done

when the other government was in there?

Just go back and check the books, Sir. It was brought forward, but the people

made a decision, I guess, they want changes, but I am going to tell you it was

there for free books for Grade 9-Level III in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, we listen to those in authority, whether it is with the NLTA -

and the President of the NLTA came out and said the free books are a wonderful

thing and he commends it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: We commend it as well, but he also went on to say that you

have to have the resources to go along with it.

That is the concern that people have, and I hope that -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time for his presentation has expired.

MR. BUTLER: (Inaudible).

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member, I do believe, is requesting time to make

some concluding comments, and I do understand that leave has been granted.

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I did not realize time went so fast. I believe

when the alarms went today and we had to go outside you must have taken that out

of my time as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. BUTLER: Like I said, Mr. Speaker, I commend the government -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: - but you also have to realize that back in 2003, the

Administration at that time, there was $73 million in royalties that came into

this Province from the offshore. Today, we are looking at over $400-and-some-odd

million. Anyone with funding coming in like that, Mr. Speaker, should be able to

put more money into education, and we believe there is much more that has to be

done.

We hear professors at the university talking about the math curriculum, the

$12 million. They are saying it is not a money problem; it is a policy issue. I

ask government to really size this up because the teaching units that are going

in with mathematics are not only going into our schools to help the students.

Really, it is going in to train parents and teachers who are having difficulty

with it.

Mr. Speaker, I thank the members opposite for the time. I am sure, throughout

the Budget debate, we will get an extra opportunity to debate the issues when it

comes to the department, not only of education but other departments as well.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to stand on my feet today to support this motion.

Mr. Speaker, just over a year ago I was appointed Parliamentary Secretary to

the Minister of Education. That was last year's Budget, Mr. Speaker. In that

Budget we spent $100 million of new money in that year. This year we are

spending $70 million of new money. Mr. Speaker, in a two-year total, that is

$170 million put into the educational system of Newfoundland and Labrador; the

highest in the history of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that this is going to be a

unanimous consent of the House today, because here is what it says,

"...that all Members of the House Assembly support and endorse initiatives

brought forward by this Government for the betterment of our children and their

education."

Mr. Speaker, the reason they will support that is because all of the

initiatives that were put in here were to do two things. Who did it support and

who benefitted by it? It was the teachers, it was the students, it was the

parents, and most of the all, Mr. Speaker, it was the Province of Newfoundland

and Labrador. That is who benefitted by this, because we are going to have a

better educational system.

Mr. Speaker, when we look at economic development within our Province, we

look at education as being a focal point and a driving force to make things

happen. That is what we are doing, Mr. Speaker, we are starting at the

grassroots and moving up and providing a better education for our children, and

that is what these initiatives have done.

Mr. Speaker, I want to spend a little bit of time on the motion, the

amendment that the hon. member across the way put forward. He said: Calling on

government to further address items of special needs. Mr. Speaker, we are in

review of the ISSP and what that entails and what problems it will have for the

education system. We do not have that report. We have to analyze that when we

get it, and we will do that. That is the special needs students.

Mr. Speaker, curriculum problems: the hon. member mentioned the math. We put

$11 million into the math program. What did that do? Well it put twenty-five new

teachers in the Province into the system to help out both the students, the

teachers, and the parents. That is what it did.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: In that, Mr. Speaker, what it also did, it also allowed for a

review of the curriculum and to make adjustments where the problems lie, and to

either enhance it or change some of the problems in the curriculum. Mr. Speaker,

we are not going to throw the baby out with the bath water, because we have to

look at our CRTs and we have to make sure that our students are the best

mathematic students in Canada.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: If we start to take away the objectives and what they need to

gather, what they need to move on with in education, then we have to be the

best, and our minister has said that. We want our students in the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador to be the best mathematic students in the country.

Mr. Speaker, the one I really had a little chuckle over - well, it was not

large class sizes, because you do not laugh over something that is as serious as

that. Large class sizes, this is the final year of our commitment in the Blue

Book to reduce the pupil-teacher ratio from Kindergarten to Grade 3 to

twenty-five to one.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Mr. Speaker, we did not just put that Blue Book on a shelf

and let it gather dust. That is the commitment we made four years ago and that

is our commitment completed today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Now, here is a very interesting stat, and I am glad the

member put it in his - he said: Comprehensive review for school repairs. Let me

tell you what this government did. There was fifty-five cents per square foot -

AN HON. MEMBER: Who brought it down to fifty-five cents?

MR. DENINE: I do not want to tell you, but it is quite obvious.

Mr. Speaker, fifty-five cents a square foot. The previous Administration took

it down that low. What did this government do? We increased it to ninety-two

cents. That is what we did!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: And to quote one of the CEOs of one of the districts, he

said: This allows this school district to put in preventive maintenance that it

never had before.

Now here is another stat. The hon. member talked about repairs. Here is an

interesting fact. In the past three years we have completed roofing projects on

more than sixty schools Province-wide. This equates to twenty-eight acres, or

equivalent - because we are watching the playoffs in hockey, seventy-three NHL

hockey rinks. That is what we did!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: And the hon. member across the way had the gall to put that

in his amendment. I cannot believe it. It is there for you. If you want to see

it, I will give you a copy.

Do I look at this and support that amendment? The answer to that is, no. Why?

The reason is that it has our vision. That is our vision. That is what we are

doing today. So why would we support a motion that they put forward? That is

what we are doing. I outlined all of the things we are doing, and that is

exactly what the amendment did. We were doing it.

Mr. Speaker -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) did not say that in the Estimates.

MR. DENINE: Well, you did not listen because you did not ask the

questions, I tell the hon. gentleman. If he had to ask the questions, he would

have gotten the answer. The Minister of Education was quite forward and direct

with you, sir, when you asked questions and there was not a question left

unanswered to you in our Estimates committee.

Mr. Speaker, we talked about textbooks, and the hon. member over there says:

Well, we were going to do that before. We were going to do that before. We

brought that in. Well, when? What did that do? Let me go back to two items. Last

year we eliminated school fees, this year we eliminated the cost of textbooks.

Now that is significant investment. Who does that benefit? It benefits the

students.

Mr. Speaker, I was a teacher. I can remember teaching high school. Sometimes

the students never had their books for a month after school started. Now they

will have them the first day school starts.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: They do not have to wait for it, they are there. What did it

do? It helped the students. The parents do not have to put down $200 or $300

next September to buy books, or more. They do not have to pay school fees. That

is who it helps, it helps them. It also helps the teachers because the teachers

do not have the stress in making sure, one, school fees are paid, or two, that

their students have books.

AN HON. MEMBER: They can concentrate on teaching.

MR. DENINE: That is exactly what they can do. As my hon. colleague said,

they can concentrate on the teaching.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I can go on. I do not know how much time I have, but I know

I am not going to get it all in.

Mr. Speaker, I want to touch a little bit on the student reduction. In Corner

Brook, in early March I think it was, the Minister of Education asked for

stakeholders to come together and find out what they wanted to do to help reduce

the student debt, what are their thoughts on it. Not only did our minister

listen, but the proof is in the pudding. It is here on the desk. It is here in

our Budget.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: We did not just gather those stakeholders and pay lip service

to them. We put it in. Now, what did we do? We put in upfront needs-based

grants. Even hon. colleagues along the way, when they were in the

Administration, they understand that all the loan programs, whether provincial

or federal, are based on needs. That is what we are doing, up-front, needs-based

grants. You know who that benefits the most? Students who are in need, and a lot

of them come from rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Mr. Speaker, what happens here is this: in our system there

are roughly 15,000 students at MUN and CONA. Fifteen thousand. Any given year

there are between 10,000 and 11,000 people who avail of loans.

AN HON. MEMBER: There are 17,000 at MUN alone.

MR. DENINE: Well, you can correct me when you get up. You can do that

when you get up. Listen to my stats, because then you will hear the truth.

This here, Mr. Speaker, 10,000 or 11,000 people will be looking for loans.

Most of them will not qualify for the $140 a week because they do not need a

loan. Seventy-nine hundred of them will qualify. Seventy-nine hundred people who

would not have gotten an up-front grant, non-repayable, 7,900 of them will be

helped with their education.

Mr. Speaker, what can I say?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: What can I say? This is a good initiative, a very, very good

initiative. That is what we are all about here, and this is where this

government has put its money, where its mouth is.

Mr. Speaker, let's also look at the 46,000 people, the 46,000 students who

went to university, post-secondary, who will get a reduction in the interest

rate of their student loans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Mr. Speaker, this is what the stakeholders asked for. This is

what the stakeholders asked for.

Let me read a little e-mail that the minister received. The minister received

an e-mail that says: Thank you for listening to the issues brought forth at our

discussion in Corner Brook and taking action. From the Budget it is obvious that

the voices of the graduates, the current students, were heard and that your

government, your department, is taking the proper steps to lessen the burden of

debt on the most valuable resource of this Province, which is our students.

Mr. Speaker, what he also went on to say is that the money that he is saving

on the interest rate of the student loans, he is reinvesting that into his

daughter's education through RESPs.

Mr. Speaker, this is what the people asked us to reduce the interest rate

for; this is what they asked us for, to do it, and we followed through on it.

What more can we do?

Now, could we do more? Yes, everyone here on this side of the House would

like to do more.

AN HON. MEMBER: And we will. We still have until (inaudible) October to

go!

MR. DENINE: And we will.

Mr. Speaker, you had to be here for the first Budget. To this Budget, it is

like day and night. I hope they over there see the vision that we have for

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I want to go into the technology part which directly affects the

schools. Last year, we put in new technology for skilled trades courses in the

schools of Newfoundland and Labrador. We put over $100,000 worth of equipment in

twenty-five schools. This year, we added eight more to it so there is a total of

thirty-three high schools in this Province who now have modern equipment, modern

technology, to introduce our students to the skills that will be needed in the

future.

We have put a significant amount of money in that, and we have invested in

that because we thought, as my colleague pointed out, university is not for

everyone. There are a lot of skilled trades out there that we need in this

Province at our time. We need them, and we need to set the roots. We need to set

the seed to show the option to our students, to give them the option that, hey,

university is great, but there are also trades that are excellent too. We need

to provide our students with the options of that.

On top of that, what did we do? We looked at career education. We have ten

career councillors working out of the HRLE offices, visiting the schools,

promoting career opportunities for our Province, giving our students the

equipment, the ideas, the knowledge, that they can accept, they can look at

other options of what is better for them to better their future, Mr. Speaker,

and that is what this government is doing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Man, I don't know where to stop; I really don't.

Mr. Speaker, just think about it for a minute. When I mentioned the amount of

the roofs we had to repair, if there had to have been ongoing repairs to the

school system, look how much money this government would have had to spend on

education other than the envelope of our schools. Think about it, $30 million to

$40 million more. Think about the $170 million we put on it, put in the system,

and put another forty into resources, into the areas which we need, and we would

move towards those areas, think about what would have happened then. The reason

why we had to put the money into maintenance is because there was thirteen years

of neglect, totally!

Mr. Speaker, I talked to some of the teachers. I happened to be at a public

speaking contest at one of my schools in my district, and when I went in there

the principal greeted me, one of the teachers greeted me, and to quote them,

Sir, what they said was: What a fantastic Budget for education. What a Budget

for education. You did it all.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Mr. Speaker, that was not prompted by me. They greeted me at

the door, shook my hand, and said: Excellent job. Keep up the good work.

That is what we did.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Mount Pearl that his speaking time has expired.

MR. DENINE: By leave?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member, by leave.

MR. DENINE: Mr. Speaker, I can tell you, I am very proud of what this

government has done for education in two years - two years - $170 million of new

money. New money. I can sit here and, as a past educator - I should not say a

past educator because I am always learning - as an educator, we put in money

that was not there before.

My hon. colleague said: Well, let's take on the motto of what the NLTA

said: Put our hands up for education.

Mr. Speaker, here is my hand, here is my government's hand, and we are

putting our hands up for education.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I hate to burst the bubble of the Member for Mount Pearl, but I think I will

have to give him a dose of reality. In the meantime, before I start, I want to

second the motion for the amendment that was put forward by my colleague, the

Member for Port de Grave.

Anyone who has been around budgets for years and years know that it takes 10

per cent to keep pace with the former budget that you had the year before. It

takes 10 per cent to do that, because you have the cost of living index, you

have the difference in heat and light, you have the difference of insurance, you

have the difference of staff increases, and you have all of these extra costs in

a budget no matter what department it is for. So, based on that, a 10 per cent

increase just looks after the maintenance of a budget.

If that were the case when this new government took over, even just keeping

pace with the original budget when they took it over, they should now have $1.2

billion set aside to look after education needs in this Province. Let me tell

you, you did not put any extra money in the Budget.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS THISTLE: Well, that is the way it is. You are just keeping pace with

the cost of doing business. If you look at the health budget of this government

or any government, it takes 10 per cent of an increase the next year to keep

pace by taking on no extra spending.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) over $1 billion.

MS THISTLE: I am telling you the facts. If you don't want to listen,

that's up to you.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS THISTLE: I want to say that any measure of spending for the children

of this Province is a good thing. I am not disputing what has been said in the

Budget. I think any money that can be spent towards children's education in

this Province, there is nobody going to disagree with that and I am all for any

incentive that is put forward to help children in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: I also want to tell you, the truth of the matter is, that in

order to keep pace with any budget you need to add 10 per cent for the next

year. You can check with your finance people, they will confirm that as well.

I also want to talk about the issue of the President of the NLTA today. He

naturally was the recipient, and his group, of a $2 billion investment into

their pension plan, and many good things have been done for the Teachers'

Association. I am sure it took a lot of nerve by Kevin Foley to actually lift

his hand and say that we still have a problem in the classroom. He is not taking

that lightly, he is not doing that lightly. He only has one interest in mind,

and that is the children he is responsible for. So, I am sure after all the

contributions that government has made to teachers in this Province, that he

would not on Budget Day want to lift his hand and say that there is a problem.

In fact, he was probably the only group throughout the Province who had a

dissenting voice.

Kevin Foley feels there are still issues around teacher recruit and teacher

retainment. We know there are not enough teachers in the classroom. You can put

forward all the arguments that you want saying that our population has

decreased. As a matter of fact, we are going beyond the allocation formula. The

truth of the matter is, if Kevin Foley says there are not enough teachers in the

classroom, there are not.

Look around at the hats of the teachers today. What do they have to do? Our

social fabric is different than it was when I went to school, when anybody here

in this House went to school. The social fabric is different. Teachers are being

social workers, guardians, guidance counsellors, every day of the week, and I

will give you some definite facts.

Aliant operates a Kids Help Phone in our Province and they have a walk in

Grand Falls-Windsor this coming Sunday to try and raise funds for that Kids Help

Line. Now I am going to give you some startling figures today about how many

children in our Province call the Kids Help Line for help. My last recollection

of how many children are going to school in our Province was - 160,000 children

are going to school in our Province. Do you know how many calls for help last

year that Aliant had on the Kids Help Phone? They had over 200,000 telephone

calls and e-mails from children calling for help. Now, what does that tell

educators in our Province? What does that tell government in our Province?

These counsellors are set up in Toronto on a - something similar like we have

here in Newfoundland, like a help desk. All of these counsellors answer the

telephone for kids all across Canada. The startling statistics are in Alberta.

With the population of Alberta, guess how many calls they received? Less than

100,000. That is the number of calls they received for Alberta last year, and

look at our small population in Newfoundland and Labrador. So, the Kids Help

Phone received over 200,000 requests, phone calls and e-mails. There is a such a

demand on that line, that counsellors cannot call back every child. It might be

a day or two before they can call back every child. So, there are going to be

walks taking place all over our Province trying to raise money to add more

resources to the Kids Help Phone. For anybody to get up today and say that all

the issues in education are solved, it is incorrect. It is incorrect. The Budget

reflects the 10 per cent cost of doing business in that particular department.

Now, when you also look at the grants for post-secondary education. I am glad

that the government has listened to students around our Province because

students do not want the ability to go out and add more debt. They do not want

to borrow more money. They want their grants upfront so they do not have to pay

them back, but I think we can go one step further. We can reduce the threshold

for the portion of the Newfoundland and Labrador student loans. We can reduce

the threshold of income guidelines so that more students will be able to access

grants because we have to look at the cost of trying to get a university

education here in St. John's, or Corner Brook, or anywhere that children have

to go, to come in from rural Newfoundland and Labrador. We can go further. That

is a good first step, and I am glad that the students have been able to get the

attention of government and changes have been made, but we can increase that

further. Right now, there is a surplus. There is a surplus of $261 million

sitting in the Treasury of this Province, and you can do more for students if

you want to.

I want to talk about new schools built. I can tell you, I was the Minister of

Youth Services and Education in 2003 and that was deemed to be an education

budget. There was an extra $250 million of brand new money put in that budget at

that time for the very purpose of addressing education needs in our Province. I

can tell you that there was a lot of schools built in very remote locations. I

am sure that my colleagues here, on all sides of the House, can raise their

hands and say: Yes, I can recall when schools were built all around rural

Newfoundland and Labrador.

I can cite one, in particular, in Buchans, a mining town that closed down in

1982. They had a mouldy school there. The principal and everybody in the

community put up a fight. They did not want their children having to go to a

school that was full of mould, even though they were a dying community, as most

people thought at that particular time. We were the government then, and I said,

you know, you just cannot say no. You cannot close your eyes to what is actually

going on in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. At that particular time there were

over 200 students in that school. Now they are down to about 160, but it looks

like they are going to increase their population because of the new mine now in

Millertown.

So, we went ahead and we built a $3 million school - the entire population

there was less than 1,200 people, with all of the communities combined, who

would use the school - simply because we believed that every child deserved a

good education, and we were determined to do it. That was at a time when the

Labrador because they had a big, ballooning debt at that time, a deficit of $42

billion. Every province in Canada had less money to work with. You are lucky.

This government inherited the resources that were generated by other

governments. You are now in a position where you can take out the checkbook and

anyone who has an issue you can write a cheque. That is a luxury position to be

in.

I remember when we were in the government we were spending our money on

cardiac surgery because there were so many lineups. I have not heard any talk

about lineups for cardiac surgery for several years. We were spending our money

on the essential, necessary things.

Being good stewards of money is very important. You have the opportunity now

with a surplus this year, and you will have a greater surplus next year based on

our royalty regime for our offshore resources and our minerals, but you have to

look at where the downfall is. We are creating good education for our children.

You are bringing in an interest reduction, or putting interest back to prime,

for those paying off their student loans. There is one thing you have not done

with all of the surplus that you have, that you have been able to inherit, you

have not been able to create a job so that all of our children, when they come

out of school, will be able to get work here and will be able to contribute to

our economy.

I do not know what has happened. There should be a lot of brilliant minds

with a large pot of money to work with, and still I do not see any initiative

that is coming forward from this government to stimulate the economy and make

sure we can sustain it.

We had a serious issue. I was watching TV last night and I noticed that in

Ontario they had to lock down a lot of their schools because of a situation that

might have resulted, like we saw in Virginia a while ago. These are issues that

have happened in our Province too, bullying issues and so on. When a child calls

into a kids' help phone that means they have an issue that is not resolved in

their home or it is not resolved in school.

The reason my colleague, the Member for Port de Grave, wanted an amendment

here today is because he wanted to see, and we all want to see, more money put

into our school system for student assistants. Let there be smaller classes. Let

there be more speech pathologists for those disabled children that need special

attention. This is what we are looking for.

The truth of the matter is that your Budget, although you make think - I know

the person who got up to speak first, the Member for Terra Nova, thinks that the

Budget is extremely large this year, but it is normal. In fact it should be up

to $1.2 billion based on the cost of living. It is just a normal Budget, and I

do not know why you are so hyped up about it. It is a normal Budget and you have

surplus money that you are able to do things with.

That is the reason for the amendment today. There are targeted areas that

need special attention and anyone who has a disabled child understands that. For

instance, autism funding: I heard Joyce Churchill on the radio this morning and

she is talking now about the wonderful building that has being erected in Pippy

Park and is open. They do not have enough annual money to operate their

facility. They want to get $250,000 from government in annual funding so they do

not have to go out and fundraise and they do not have to worry about having to

shut down their facility. You know, Autism funding: We were the first government

to bring it forward and there is still a great lack for Autism funding. It is

looked after until a child reaches school age, in Kindergarten, and then it

stops. We have many issues concerning autistic children around our Province. You

know, autistic children do not have the funding that they need. I mean, Joyce

Churchill was on this morning and they do not have enough money to operate their

facility without fundraising.

There is something wrong here when you have a $2 million facility - they

fundraise and of course we had a wonderful donor by the name of Craig Dobbin who

donated to that wonderful facility, among many other fundraisers. I remember

Scott Kenny in Grand Falls-Windsor who had a telethon for Autism and raised

thousands and thousands of dollars towards this project here in St. John's.

Autism is increasing all over our Province and our country. If you think you

have all the issues solved regarding education, you do not. With your blank

checkbook and the sky is the limit - you have no line of credit limit. You have

$261 million that you have not even touched yet-

AN HON. MEMBER: An $11 billion debt.

MS THISTLE: Well, an $11 billion debt, but, I mean, you have only put $70

million on it this year, so you did not think it was all that important.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Grand Falls-Buchans that her speaking time has

expired.

MS THISTLE: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak here today.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am very happy to be able to speak to this motion today with the proposed

amendment, and I am glad that the hon. Member for Terra Nova brought this motion

forward. I am pleased to speak to it because, yes, there are a lot of good

things in the Budget for the educational system and I spoke to some of those

things when I spoke to the Budget. Certainly, the free textbooks I am pleased

with, and some of the things in post-secondary I am pleased with.

Nothing is perfect, absolutely nothing is perfect, and we all know that. So,

why does the government expect us to accept what they do without having some

constructive criticism to offer? That is what the House is all about, that is

what democracy is all about, that we all have something to say and some input

that we can make. That is what I am doing here today.

It disturbs me, when I read the news release that was put out on the day the

Budget was released, and I see the Minister of Education saying that

Newfoundland and Labrador has an education system that is on par with or

surpasses any other in the country.

You know, I am a really proud Newfoundlander and Labradorian and I really

believe in our Province, I believe in the expertise that we have in our Province

and I believe in what we try to do in this Province. But I wish the government

would stop using this superlative language which does not admit the truth of

what we have in our Province. It really bothers me. I would like to know what

criteria the minister is using, and I am sorry the minister is not here today to

hear the questions that I have to ask her. What criteria was she using when she

made that statement, that our educational system is on a par with or surpassing

any other in the country?

Was she talking about class size? Because if she was talking about

student-teacher ratio, I do not think we surpass other schools in this country?

Was she talking about maintenance of buildings? Goodness gracious, weren't we

embarrassed this year with the number of schools that had to close down because

they were not healthy, because our children could not stay in them; children

having to move out of their communities, not just move out of their school, but

move out of their communities in order to be in healthy spaces until schools

were cleaned up and mold was gotten rid off?

What about specialist services, the services for children with special needs?

I have some experience in other provinces, not just in our own, and I will tell

you, we cannot claim that we surpass other places in this country when it comes

to specialist needs, when it comes to teacher assistance for children -

MR. RIDEOUT: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader, on a point of order.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I am reluctant to interrupt my colleague from

the other side, but I understand that the hon. member just made reference to the

absence of the Minister of Education. The minister is not here to answer

questions that she has.

It was only just fifteen or twenty minutes, or half an hour ago, I think,

that the Chair ruled that it is inappropriate and out of order, actually, to

refer to the absence of members. The minister is out on Her Majesty's business

and cannot be here. I am sure that the minister would be happy to answer any

questions from the hon. member when she returns.

I know the hon. member is new, and I do not want to make an issue of that,

but I just want to, because it was only half an hour or so ago that we were all

reminded that it is not appropriate to refer to the absence or otherwise of

members.

MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, the Chair will readily admit that he

heard the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi and had fully intended to confer

with the member after she made her speech.

Being a new member, sometimes the Chair is reluctant to interrupt, but the

hon. Government House Leader is 100 per cent correct. I remind all members,

including the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, that it is unparliamentary to

refer to people, whether they are in the House or outside the House.

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I do admit that I really did not make the connection. I apologize, and I

thank the House Leader for reminding us, and for your reminding me as well. It

will not happen again.

Now, where was I? Oh, yes - that is okay. That is okay. I am sure I can find

my place. I was starting to talk about services for children with special needs.

I have to say that I think we lag behind many places in this country when it

comes to special needs. No matter what those needs are, whether they are needs

of physical disability, needs of mental disability, learning disabilities, we

lag far behind. It is very sad to me that our government does not recognize

that, and that our government did not, in this Budget, use an opportunity to

increase the specialists who are needed for children with special needs,

increase the numbers of people who are hired. To me, that is what this Budget is

missing, and it is what bothers me.

I am absolutely delighted that we have $49 million for repairs and

maintenance and new school construction, but that money was absolutely

essential. It was absolutely essential. I am very, very pleased that we have put

up the amount per square foot for operations from 55 cents to 92 cents, but that

money was absolutely essential as well, because we all know that we had dropped

too low when it comes to operating grants, and that a lot of the reasons why our

schools are getting mouldy is because they are not being maintained well enough.

The $49 million is absolutely essential. Some schools have to be replaced, some

schools have to have extensions, and we have to have ongoing maintenance. The

$49 million, of course it is there; it has to be there.

Will I say, take back the money for free textbooks? No, I will not, because I

think that was essential for the good of families and the good of children, so I

am not going to say take that back as well. I think that was essential also.

To have a Budget that does not improve things essentially for the children in

the classrooms, that does not give more teachers to children in the classrooms -

I recognize that we have a cap on class size up to Grade 3, but we have so much

more to do. I do not think that things have improved that much for children in

the classroom. The twenty-five new positions that are talked about for the math

program is not putting more teachers in the classroom. It is not changing the

size of classes.

I have a teaching background. Many of us in the House do have a teaching

background, and ultimately we all know that when it comes to the teaching of our

children the number one thing that is essential is their access to teachers, to

teachers who are committed - as our teachers are in this Province - and to

teachers in a setting that is small enough so that the children can benefit from

their teacher. When children have special needs, there have to be teaching

assistants to help with that as well.

I think that is where this Budget fails in the educational realm. I do not

see it benefitting the children. It is benefitting our infrastructure, and we

absolutely need it, there is no doubt about that. I am not going to say that we

do not need that; we absolutely do. It benefits that. It benefits the families,

in some ways economically, there is no doubt about that, but I am still

concerned about the children in the classrooms, how those children are learning,

and is there anything that is going to improve things for them in their learning

situation? I do not know that there is.

When it comes, for example, to the money for the twenty-five teachers who are

being hired for the math program, and we are told that these people are going to

be there to act as consultants both for teachers as well as for parents, I have

to say, I got a bit of a shock when I heard that, because what are we saying? I

know parents have a role to play in the education of the children, there is no

doubt about that, but parents are not math teachers. Parents are not math

teachers. I really and truly think that we have something seriously wrong with a

math program if it requires not just the role of teachers in the classroom but

also the role of parents in order for kids to learn. Can't we recognize there

is something wrong there? You know, unless that gets dealt with, we can put

fifty more specialist teachers dealing with this math program. We have a major

problem with this math program.

Parents are saying it all over the place, teachers are saying it all over the

place, and I would like to see something done about that. I would have preferred

to have seen a lot more money go into evaluating that program and moving out of

it, finding another program, learning from other places. Surely to goodness, how

much longer do we have to go on with that math program before we realize that it

is missing the point? It is not teaching our kids to do math. Do I repeat

everything that is being said? Well, maybe I will say some of it.

Yes, we have to teach people how to think, there is no doubt about that, but

when it comes to math, people have to learn basic skills. If they do not have

the basic skills first, then we are in trouble in trying to get them to solve

problems because they do not have the skills to do the stuff that needs to be

done to solve the problem.

If somebody said to me, I want to teach you about carpentry, and I want you

to figure out how to put up that deck. What do you need to put up that deck? You

need legs, you need planks for the floor, you need a fence. You need.... I could

come up with all the ways to solve how to put the deck up, but if nobody has

taught me how to saw and nobody has taught me how to hammer a nail, and nobody

has taught me any of the basic skills of carpentry, I can solve the problem all

I want and tell you how to do it, but I will not be able to do it.

That is what I see is happening with our math program, and I think we have to

take it seriously. I really urge the government to think about this and to take

some action on it. To lay this on the backs of parents, on the shoulders of

parents, is unacceptable. Think about a single parent.

AN HON. MEMBER: We are not doing that.

MS MICHAEL: I am sorry, but that is the implication of saying that these

teachers are there to do workshops with parents.

Think about a single parent, a single parent who also is holding down a job.

How can that parent even get the time to go to a workshop to learn about the

math? How can that parent get time to parent two or three children just doing

ordinary parenting and then also have to take on teaching them this math

program? Maybe we needed these twenty-five teachers to go into this math

program. I have a feeling we would have been better off if we had twenty-four

more teachers in the classroom and we revamped our math program. I think it is a

very serious issue, and I wanted to speak to it.

I have a couple of other things here, Mr. Speaker. I just want to check my

notes. I was also a bit disturbed, as an MHA, when I read the list of projects

in the news release that were going to be developed under the Capital

Investments. A great list, and I was really delighted, and then tagged on at the

end, after I read the list of Herdman Collegiate in Corner Brook, new schools in

Mobile, Port Saunders, L'Anse-au-Loup, Torbay, Placentia and Baie Verte,

extensions and renovations to the school in Middle Arm, Exploits Valley

Intermediate in Grand Falls-Windsor, Gander Collegiate in Gander, Botwood

Collegiate in Botwood, Beachy Cove and Portugal Cove-St. Philips, among others.

I read it, and I did make reference to this in the Estimates Committee meeting,

well, does among others include Virginia Park school, for example, a school that

I know I and my predecessor have been concerned about now for a number of years?

I got a nod of the head when I asked the minister at the Estimates Committee,

and I am hoping - we do not have the committee minutes yet - I am hoping that

nod of the head gets interrupted in the minutes as a yes to my question of

whether or not Virginia Park school is included here.

We have had to wait so long to get the Virginia Park extension done that I

look at this list and I say, well, are these actually going to get started this

year? Because, you know, I was told last spring, even before I was elected, when

I met with the school board with my predecessor to try to get a sense of the

district that I had hoped to run in and hoped to eventually represent, I wanted

to get a sense of what the issues were and the commitment of the government to

the people in that area. So far, everything is on paper. So far, everything is

yes, it is going to happen. So far, it is all still in the planning stage. So I

really hope that this year, in this Budget, with the money that is allotted, we

are going to move beyond the talking stage, that we are going to move beyond

promises, and that the schools that are listed here as ongoing projects are not

going to be in the same boat as the school that I represent in Virginia Park,

which is still in the talking stage, still in the promise stage. I look at this

and I say to the government: Action is what I look for. Action is what I hope

for.

Coming up in the next couple of days, this government is going to receive the

report of the teacher allotment review, I understand. I was told that today. My

point again is, can I look forward to action in response to that review? Because

I have no doubt - and I will wait to be proven wrong, but I have no doubt - that

review is going to show us that there has to be quite a change in teacher

allotment and that there are going to have to be more teachers in the system.

I am going to be looking to the government to give a positive response to the

recommendations from that review. Action is the word. I get tired of promises,

promises, promises, and that is what I hear very often.

We cannot keep parents and teachers and children on the hook, like the

parents and teachers and children in my district. We cannot keep them on the

hook wondering, wondering, wondering. We have to move with them. If the money is

there, as I was told last year, and now I am being told again this year, if the

money is there to do the work on a school, I can never understand why it takes

so long for things to happen.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi that her speaking time

has expired.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

By leave, just to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member, by leave.

MS MICHAEL: I just want to reiterate the point I made about the Budget

being student-centric. I think that in everything decision we make we have to

make sure we are there for the good of the children. Obviously, maintaining the

schools is there for the good of the children, but we have to look at what are

the things that are needed for the good of the children, many of them that I

have mentioned, that are lacking from this Budget.

I encourage this government to continue listening to this side of the House,

continue listening to teachers and parents, and that, as we move forward,

everything that we are doing is for the good of the children in our system.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.