PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Volume 1 Number 8 5th Session 34th.Genera1Assembly VERBATIM REPORT WEDNESDAY, MARCH 31, 1971 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE GEORGE W. CLARKE

Marci. 31st., 1971 The House met at 3 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape no 142 Page 1 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Mr. Speaker, His Honour the Lieutenant Govemor has arrived. _MR~ SPEAKER: Admit His Honour the Lieutenant Govemor.

May it please Your Honour it is my agreeable duty on behalf of Her Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, her faithful commons in Newfoundland to present to Your Honour a bill for the Appropriation of Supply passed in the present Session. · A Bill, "An Act For Granting To Her Majesty Certain Sums Of Money For Defraying Certain Expenses Of The Public Service For The Financial Year Ending The Thirty First Day Of March, One Thousand Nine Hundred And Seventy-Two And For Purposes Relating To the Public Se-:vice." BIS HONOUR THE LIEUTENANT @VERNOR: In Her Majesty's Name, I thank her loyal subjects.

I accept their benevolence and assent to this Bill. His Honour the Lieutenant Governor left the Assembly Cha~ber, Mr. Speaker took the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: Order~ HON, J.R. SMALLWOOD (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I have great pleasure in expressing a word of welcome,in behalf of the Government and of the House and of the people of this Province,to a delegation of five gentlemen who are in the distinguished visitors' gallery today.from the Govemment of the Republic of Romania on the Continent of Europe. Four of these gentlemen have come here from Bucharest. One of them is the Trade Commissioner of Romania in Montreal.

The leader of the delegation is Mr. Ciprian Mandreanu the head of the delegation who is the General Director of Non-Farris Minerals Division of the Minister of Mines of the Government of Romania. Th• General Director of Iron-Ore and Coal Division of that ministry is also present. And one of their top authorities in iron and coal dressing; one of the greatest geologists of Romania.ft"om the Government of Romania, the Bucharest 594

March 31st •• 1971 Tape no. 142 Pagel Mr. Smallwood, Exploration Division of the Government of Romania, And Mr. Dumitru Dineacu Trade Commissioner of Romania: in Montreal. These gentlemen have just arrived in St, John's from Labrador. They have visited the iron mines of Labrador. They are immensely interested in the iron ore reserves of this Province, because Romania is in need of iron ore to support their g~eat steel industty. That steel industry has been supported up to now by the iron. ore reserves of Romania~ but these .reserves are not as great as they were, They need more.

They are increasing the production of steel beyond the 6 million tons a year;it has presently reached,to something approaching double that quantity in the next few years. They need a ·lot of iron ore. We are in hopes, Mr. Speaker, the ships will bring iron ore from this Province to Romania, to a seaport on the Black Sea.to serve the steel industry cf Romania and 1on returning,will bring crude oi: from the Middle East to Come-by-Chance.

Active explorations and discus~ions are going on in that regard,between the delegation who are in the d~stinguished visitors' gallery today and relevant authorities in this Province. This is the first of several delegations that wili come to our Province :rom Romania. The next one will be coming in something like a fortniaht from now. a delegation concerned with oil, Romania being, of course, the country in the w~rld that had the first oil wells and the first oil refinery, 110 years ago.

Romania being not only the first uountry in the world wit~ an oil industry but a country also with an extremely great and importa,t petro­ chemical industry, ·that delegation will be here within the next fortnight, I hope that the second delegation will be followed by a third. Thia Republic of 20 million people, approximately the same population ss that of our own Canadtn 5D5

March 31st., 1971 Tape no. 142 Page 3 Kr. Smallwood. ,. nation~ are, as we have learned.keenly interested in developing trade with Canada in general and Nri§oundland and Labrador in particular. 596

March 31 1971 Tape 143 page 1. I am sure that the House welcomes these distinguished gentlemen here and expresses the welcome of the Govemment, the House and the people of New­ foundland. While 1 am on my feet,Mr.

Speaker, I would like to announce the fact that the Board of Directors of Albright, Wilson,Limited of England .owners of the phosphorus plant at Long Harbour announced that,following discussions with the Teneco Company Incorporated af the United States on the commercial advantages to be derived from closer association between the two business firms, iPfOposals are to be submitted for the approval of sto~kholders of Albright & Wilson.under which Teneco will subscribe for :seventeen and a-halfcmillion pounds sterling, which is over $50 million, I think, of five per cent convertible,unsecured loan stock,1986,of Albright & Wilso~, to be issued at par~ The convertible loan stock is to be convertible into ordinary stock of Albright & Wilson during the years 1972~1986,on the follcn ring basis, and I am sure the Rouse will not be too concerned with the partic~lar basis on which this is to be done.

The Tenaco Company already holds six and a-half million ordinary stock units of Albright & Wilson. Full conversion,during the period 197:-76,would result in Teneco holding 50.6 per cent of the enlarged,ordinary cat•ital of I Albright & Wilson, which means to say,Mr. Speaker, that control of this famous British ~,Ctimpany and consequently of the plant at Long Harbour Newfoundland will now pass from Albright & Wilson in England to Teneco in the United ~tates. The plant at Long Harbour must:therefore,I think,in future he regarded not ·as a British but rather a United States Company.

The Boards of A~.hri~ht & Wilson and of Teneca believe that the funds subsii:ribecl by Teneco w.·.11 ·enable Alb~igNt & Wilson to expand its United Kingdom and Overseas Chemical Interests at a significantly greater rate than could otherwise have been ach i eved. In addition,significant benefits are expected to follow from the closer association with the world-wide chemical and other interests•.iOfl~eneco. 597

March 31 1971 Tape 143 page 2. The Board of Albright & Wilson will be enlarged to include Mr. c:udiner Simmons, Chairman of the Board of Teneco, Mr. Sidney T. Ellis, Executive Vice-President of Teneco; Mr. Raymond H. Marks, President of Teneco Chemicals Incorporated; Mr. M. J.C. Hutton Wilson, Deputy-Chairman, and Managing Director 'Of Albright & Wilson will join the Board of Teneco Chemicals.

The proposals which are recommended by the Board of Albrip;ht & WilMn ancl their financial advisers:Hill, Samuel & Company,Limited; are subjec: to the obtaining of all necessary government and other consents and are to be submitted to an extraordinary general meeting of Albright & Wilson to be held as soon as practical. The annual reports and accounts of Albright & Wilson,,for the year ended December 31, 1970,will be posted to stockholders,together with the documents rela~ing to the proposed subscription by Teneco. Teneco have been advised in the negotiations by Robert Fleming & Company,Limited. Mr.

Speaker, this statement is signed by Mr. Richard Powell, Chaitman of the Board of Albright'& Wilson of England. MR~CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, on behalf' of my colleagues and myself.I would like to join in welcoming this Romanian delegation to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We hope that their trip here will be one that will result in business to be done between this Province and Romania. We hope that they will be interested in buying iron ore from Labrado~ presumably this is the iron ore • from the Jubilee or Javelin Concession:.

But we hope that they will find it -attractive to purchase iron ore from this Province and help develop the minin~ industry of this Province. We also hope that they rill have some interest in doing business with the oil refinery at Come b~ €hance. I know that these gentlemen must represent state-owned enterprises and some people feel that the oil refinery at Come by Chance shouid be state owned. Be that as it may, we hope that good business can be done. I would also hope.Mr. Speaker, that perhaps the Roma\\t.an delegation woul4.be interested in purchasing pulp and paper or paper products in this Province also.

I am sure they must have a need for that 5 fl 8

March 31 1971 Tape 143 page 3j ~- product in their countries. So, we would like to join in welcominr, them and we hope that they will, that the result of the trip will be good business for both parties. MR. CALLAHAN: Mr.

Speaker, I wish to advise the House that.,on behalf of the Government and as a result of conaerns and apprehensions expressed to the Government by the deep-sea fishing industry of this Province.I have convened a meeting of representatives of the deep-sea:,fishing industry and of the petroleum industry,as we know it,in terms of firms actively engaged or about to become engaged in exporation off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador 1 t~e authorities of the Federal Govemmen½ particularly the ministry of Fisheries and Forestry, more particularly in respect of the forestry

section •. This meeting or conference~which very likely is the first of a continuing of a series,. on some basis to be determined~of meetings or conferences· designed to bring together the representative of the fishing industry and the petroleum industry in order to iron out any difficulties and to set aside any fears or apprehensions that the fishing industry might have;and they have some or had some certainly prior to this morning in terms both of the possibility of offshore pollution 599

March 31st. 1971 tape 144 PK - 1 MR. CAU.AHAN: due to oil .~xplorai:i~ and development I petroleum and natural gu explo-ration and development, and the possibility of difficulty clue to hazards to navigation and the possibility of interference with the traditional operation of off-shore fishing fleets, particularly the Newfoundland fishin(I: fleet,in the areas in which oil exploration is to take place and hopefully, after oil exploration oil development is to take place subsequently. I think, I may report to the House, Mr.

Speaker, that the meeting tras entirely successful, that it achieved the purpose for which it was called, that the apprehensions, at least at this point,of the fishing induttry were set aside and that at least preliminary arrangements were agreed to in terms of exchange of information, navigational and otherwise, in terms of assurances,based on the technical equipage of the exploration vessels. Apprehensions, ,l think, were set _aside on these grounds that .f:h_e _fish"i__!1~. )ndust~~ p_erhaps have felt from time to time.

As the hon. the Premier has said, next week a delegation is tc go to Louisiana to get some first-hand experience in the matter of the coexistence of these two extremely important industries in that area and off that state of the United States. We may arrive, we hope we shall arrive at much the same situation off the coast of this Province, both off of Labrador and off of the Island of Newfoundland. And it is well to be foreamed with the knowledge, · ~at others have done and the experience that others have accumulated.

This meeting this moming flows naturally into that trip which is coming up next week, on which of course a representative of the deep sea fishing industry will be_·,presenh I am happy to inform the Bouae, Mr.

Speaku, that the meeting this moming was extremely successful and, I think, has . :, set a · t ·rend in terms terms of co-operation and exchange of vital i-lformation that will see t~ it that the fishing industry,which is so important to so many of our people,proceeds unimpeded, while at the smne time the m~tter of exploration.for petroleum and natural gas off of our coast also proceeds uninhibite~ by the fact that a traditional industry will be going along side with it. 600

March 31st. 1971 Tape 144 PK - 2 MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, I am happy to announce to the House that we have received word from Ottawa to the effect that the Department of Public Works of Canada has received directions from the Cabinet of Canada in connection with th~ wharf at C0111e-by-Chance,to the effect that the guarantee of the Government of Newfoundland is not required, as.I . had previously said, and will not be given, as I had also previously said, that the agreement will .contain a ceiling of $20 million on the cost of the wharf, as I had previously said.

That the repayment of the cost of the wharf is to be made over a period of twenty-five years and the House may remember that I said, twenty years to twenty-five years, the period is twenty-five years,in equal annual installments c0111111encing one year after the completion of the wharf. And, finally, that the payment is to be made by the company using the wharf in the form of top wharfage and side wharfage,over a period of twenty-five years. The refinery itself,using the wharf.will pay the cost of the wharf to the Government of Canada,in the form of top wharfage and side wharfage. MR. MURPHY: Mr.

Speaker, if I may~ I would just like to direct a question to the Premier,in view of his statement. What company will be responsible for repaying this million a year? Will there be any guarantee at all given by any, either the Govermnent or this c0111pany? MR. PREMIEP.: The coast of the whar~,spread over twenty-five years, a quarte-r of a century, will be paid by the operating- .,;company, the refinery itself. It will be one of the costs of refin~g the 100,000 barrels of oil a day.

It would be just · __ as · ·the cost of the labour, insurance or any . --~ .. other cost, so this will- be a cost of running the refinery. The Government of Newfoundland are giving,and are asked to give and are;going to give no ,:uarantee. MR. CROSBIE: In connection with that statement, does the Crawn Corporation, Provincial Refinin,: Company,Limited.have to guarantee to the Government of Canada that there will be sufficient monies paid in wharfage or side wharfage to repay this cost over the twenty-five year period? 601

March 31st. 1971 Tape 144 PK - 3 MR. SMALLWOOD: That is almost certainly true. That is almost certa~nly tbe•case, but the full cost of amortizing the wharf or to put it another way that the full amortization of the cost of the wharf, some figure running between $16 million and a maximum of $20 million will be paid by the operating company over a period of a-quarter of a century. MR. CROSBIE: A further question there, Mr. Speaker, if in the event that the refinery did not operate after ten years., for some reason, then t:1at company would still have to make up the payment for the next fiftee~ years.

So it is gurantee for twenty-five years payments, whether it operate~ or not. MR. SMALLWOOD: The operating company that will be operating the Oil Refinery will amortize the cost of the wharf, they have twenty-five years 1n which to do it in the form of twenty-five equal annual installments. Whether they operate the refinery or not, the twenty-five equal ann~al installments will be paid to amortize the full cost of the wharf. MR. SPEAKER: Before we call for the presentation of petitions, I wo~ld like, on behalf of the House,to welcome to the galleries today some fifty 9tudents, Grade VIII students from St.

Peter's School at Upper Island Cove. Thia is their first visit for this year, and they are accompanied by their teacher,Mr. William Greeley. PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. G. MYRDEN: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Wiltondale. And, of course, another

section of the Bonne Bay Pond area whicb is being converted into summer cabins.· Wiltondale is a small settlement on the edge of the proposed National Park. And for this -- ~ I 602

March 31st, 1971 Tape 145 JH - 1 MR. MYRDEN: reason they feel very anxious about electricity. The power lines are passing by their door and they feel that within a year or so 1when the proposed national park becomes a reality 1 they will probably be kno~n as their chief area for a camp setup. They have also requested,on be~alf of many residents of the Big Bonne Bay Pond area 1which now has something·like seventy-five summer cabins and are used most of the year around so,thereforei many petitioners have signed this petition on their behalf.

So I ask, Sir, that this petition be received and forwarded to the department to which it relates. MR. CHALKER: Mr. Speaker~ I rise to support this petition,knowing the area quite well and having at one time represented the entire St. Bar~e Coast. Wiltondale~although a small area,is rather prosperous and: do hope that the people concerned will see fit to bring electricity to thone people. I support the petition. On motio~. petition received. MR. BARBOUR: Mr. Speaker, I beg to present a petition, Sir, from the residents of Summervil~e and Plate Cove West.

The petition is signed by I : 106 people, voters, all, Liberals. MR. SMALLWOOD: Past and future. MR. BARBOUR: And for a long future. Mr. Speaker, the prayer of the petition is that the Cabot Highway road be upgraded and made conveniently pleasant for the school buses to operate. Sir, I already know what is going to take place re: the roads, Cabot Highway, Bonavista Peninsula, I am very optimistic to what is going to happen ,so rather than •. ~e·~ard the progress of this hon. House I am simply going to say. I support the petition, ask that it be received, referred to the department to which it relates. MR.

MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, being very broad-minded on this sid~we want the: IJl.berals to have the sam~ privileges as the Progressive Conservatives in this Province. We know that the great majority of Progressive Conservative districts have pa~ed roads and so on. AN RON. MEMBER.: (Inaudible). 603

March 31st, 1971 Tape 145 JM - 2 MR. MURPHY: If I could speak to this without being disturbed. If: the loud mouths on the other side. Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! MR. MURPHY: Now, Kr. Speaker, I am just going to get just a little - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKER: Order please! MR. MURPHY: Kr. Speaker, I am going to ask at this moment that this rule be enforced in this House,where a speaker may speak his part without being obstructed by a bunch of goons on the other side of this House,and I am quite serious in saying that. Mr. Speaker, I rose to support th~ prayer of this petition.

I have many friends in that area. I receive a great amount of mail from that area. The hon. member says they are all Liberals, well we will not hold it against ' J the L~berals. If they are•liberals,that is their belief but I think the ' . '. great - MR. BARBOUR: They voted for me in 1966 and they are going to vote for me again in 1971. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! MR. MURPHY: I suppose we can get permission, Sir. Is closure on,as far as I am concerned in this Bouse., at this moment? MR. SPEAKER: Would the hon. member please continue. HR. MURPHY: Thank you. AN BON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) • MR.

MURPHY: Ho, ho, ho, listen to the jester, listen to the jest~r, the great jester. Mr. Speaker, as I was about to say before I was int~rrupted so rudely,the great problem in this area has been the dust menace. ~nd I sincerely support the prayer of the petition. There is a great de~l of traffic travelling the road in this area.and I~ too happy to len~ my support to this petition and to assure the hon. member that . if there is anything we can do on this side,to bring paved roads to the Liberal districts the same as we have done to the Progressive Conservative districts,we will be only too happy to do it. 604

March 31st, 1971 Tape 145 JM - 3 On motion, petition received. MR. NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, with your permission I would like to table the annual report together with the financial statements of the Newfoundland and Labrador Power Commission1 for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 1970. MR. SPEAKER: MR. STARKES : MR. SPEAKER: MR, STARKES: Order please! Mr. Speaker, I understood you were still on petitions. We are still presenting petitions, yes. Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition from the residents of Laurenceton in the district of Lewisporte.

Laurenceton is a very beautiful community in Exploits Bay1 about twelve miles or thirteen miles from Lewisporte,and while Laurenceton is at the end of the highway that proceeds through Stanhope and Brown's Arm,because of the area being a very attractive one to tourists,the main road through the community does have an unusually large volume of traffic,considering the size of the community. The road is a very dust, one and much inconvenience is suffered by the residents 1who are among the most independent and most hard working people in Newfoundland. The prayer of their petition which is - MR.. MURPHY: Mr.

Speaker, if I may. It is very difficult to hear what is happening in the House. I think the hon. gentleman has a right to be heard . We cannot have three or four meetings going on at the one time. MR.. STARKES: The prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, which petition is signed, 1 think, by every person in the area, is that the main road through Laurenceton be paved this season. Mr. Speaker, I heartily support the prayer of the petition.

Frankly I do not know if it is going to be possible to have this work done in 19711 but I do know that the paving requested by t~e people of Laurenceton is a most desirable project and I hope it can be done with the least possible delay. In this connection I have also received a letter from the church board of the Pentencostal Assembly supporting the petition. Mr. Speaker, I move that the petition be received,and I hope by unanimous approv~l of the_House. 605

March 31st, 1971 Tape 145 JM - 4 HR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, l rise in support of the petition which has just been presented by the hon. member for Lewisporte, the Minister of ilighwaya, concerning the need for some pavanent to Laurenceton which is just past Brown'• Arm. Mr. Speaker, it might·be recalled that last summer the people of Brown's Arm were desirous of having aOllle pavement laid through their town. They bad very little luck. l believe a petition was preaen .ted in this House.however. it had very little effect. But, Mr. Speaker, when the ladies of the settlement of BroW1i'a Arm detided to take matters in their own hands 606

March 31st., 1971 Tape no 146 Page 1 Mr. Collin•• and not man a picket line, because they are women. But they et up a picket line for two or three days, set up a baby sitting service and what have you. I happened to be there one day and listened to them and s~~ .. what was going on. Shortly after that, of course, there WM some pavemeat put down through the town of Brown's Arm. I hope that the same thing is not necessary,for the women of Laurencton to have to bar traffic and set up picket lines. Certainly, sir, there is a real~=: -­ need for pavement. The dust problem there is tremendous.

It gives us ~:- great pleasure in supporting the petition which has just bean presented ·. HR.. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, this is a strongly supported petition. We would like to speak in support of this petition. The road paving there le badly need, as the minister has said. We wish him well a•,; in his immense paving programme this year, we trust. he is going to find the men, money and machines to do this work. We feel sure he will not forget Laurencton, which I think is either in his district or the one close to it. r : It is in his district, is it not? Yes, in his district. So, if: _he does not do it, who could?

So,we support the petition and hope the minister will do what be can. On 1110tion petition received. HR.. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, 1 beg leave to present a petition on behalf of the people of Channel, Port-aux-Basques. The petition consiata of two parts, really, two petitions. I have decided to present them as one,•• it concerns the same .problem. One of the petitions is from the atlldents of St. James' High School, Channel, Port-aux-Basques. The other is from the people who live on the higher levels.

The prayer of the petition is; that the water system be upgraded to provide water for the achoola and families on the higher levels. The present system is sufficient to provide water, when the plant is not in operation. The problem arose, when Mr. T. J. Hardy ope~ed a new 607

March 3l~t., 1971 Tape no. Page 2 Mr. Hodder, mdem fish plant. They appreciate the efforts of Mr. Hardy in bringing employment to the area. They have no desire to see this plant close. The only remedy that can be foreseen is that a coµple of wate·r towers be erected to bring water to the elevated areas. The petition is signed by approximately 300 people. 300 of those who are affected. I support the prayer of the petition and ask that it be placed on the table of the Rouse and referred to the department to which it relates. On motion petition received. ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr.

Speaker, Question no. 323, on today's Order Paper in the name of the hon. the member for St. John's West. In answer to part (1): Not yet, though the matter has been agreed in principle between the Government and Bison,who are to take over the property at Stephenville. In ~swer to part (2): Yes, though the rate has not yet been set. In answer to part (3): We are negotiating on this very matter. We are quite hopeful of the results. In answer to part (4): (I have to say what I said in answer to part (3)) We are negotiating and we are quite hopeful of good results.

Question no. 32S,on today's Order Paper,in the name of the same hon. member. 'lhe answer to part (1): We have Mr.B.~G. Dustan who baa been given special duties in that direction. We have the firm of auditors, chartered accounts, Peat,Marwick,Mitchell who have been given • "'!'' special duties along the same line We have Jacob's Engineering Company of California. We have the Dick Engineering Organization of Toronto. There are others whose names do not occur to me at the moment.

In ·answer to part (2): I have to say that the organizations and peraonnel, whose names I have just given, are charged with the duties to which part (2) refers. 608

March 3lth., 1971 Tape DO. 146 Page 3 Mr. CHALKER: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the answer . to Questio::i no. 11 on the Order Paper of March 25th,, uked by the hon. member for St. John's Centre. Question no. 2, on the same Order Paper asked by the same hon. member. Question no. 9, on the same Order Paper and asked by the same hon. member. Question no. 10, on the same Order Paper and asked by the same hon. member. Question no. 65 on the same Order Paper,and asked by the hon. member for St. John's Centre, was asked in the previous session and answered in the previous session.

I _do not have it, but I will check for you. It is Question no. 65 here. The answer to Question n. 67,on the Order Paper of March 25th., asked by the hon. member for St. John's Centre. The answer to Question no. 197,on the Order ?aper of March 29th., asked by the hon. member for St. John's Centre. Question no. 198,on the Order Paper of March 29th., asked by the same hon. member. The answer to Question no. 22710n the Order Paper of March 29th., asked by the hon. member for St. John's West. I suggest that the hon. member check with Question no. 154,on the Order Paper of March 5th., 1970.

It ia exactly the same question. It was answered. P~rdon me, it waa ,mswered. Question no. 2271on tbe Order Pa'P8r of March.29th. I am sure we dici it before, Mr. Speaker. The leases have not been tabled. I will check. Hr. Speaker, I will check on that one. These late sessions upset the hon. gentlemen. Question no. 197 and 198. The answer to - ··- ·- - ·- - - - -- -· 109

March -i, • 1971, Tape 14 7, Page 1 -- apb MR.. CHALKER: Question (255),on the Order Paper of March 29, asked by the hon. member for St. John's Centre. The hon. member for Burin asked the question (264~ on the Order Paper of March 29. I may say Mr. Speaker, that I have other questions but they are not on the Order Paper and I cannot answer them until they are nwnber, because I cannot refer to them. ~M!J!PHY: (Inaudible) MR. CHALKER: I think so, I am pretty well sure, if not share one until I get another copy. RON.

J.A.NOLAN (Minister of Sup1)ly and Services): Answer to question no. 192, tabled by the hon. member for Gander, I believe this question is in about eighteen parts Mr. Speaker. No. (1), I table a copy of the agreement herewith.

No. (2), Jes, unsuccessful tenders can be submitted only with the consent of the tenderers. (3), this question has been referred to the Department of Mines, Agriculture and Resources. (4), This question also referred to the Department of Mines, Agriculture and Resources. (5), Lower operating costs offered by Ulantic Aviation. (6) 1 Potential savings in excess of $100,000 a year. (7), Employees of Atlantic Aviation. (8), During the month of August 19701 that was at the peak of the season Mr. Speaker, _a total of about forty persons were employed.

This consisted of administration twelve, maintainence twelve. the air crew sixteen 1 and that totals forty,I believe. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. NOLAN: I did not check in the barn today Mr. Speaker. MR. CROSBIE: (Inaudible) MR. NOLAN: I do not have it, but I would be very happy to attempt to find out for the hon. member. Number (9), Atlantic Aviation head office is at Wilmington, Delaware. Atlantic Aviation Limited, head office at MontreaJ,,with Canadian branches at Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary and Vancouver.

(10) Please see

section fifty-five of the agreement which I am about to table. (11), Government aircraft are not licenced to carry out any charter work. (12), The answer is no. (13), Not applicable. 610 - c ----------

March 31, 1971, Tape 147, Page 2 -- apb AN HON·. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. NOLAN: I am sorry. The answer to (12) is no, and even in Gregg Shorthand you do not need very graphic figures to copy that down. (13), Not applicable. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. NOLAN: You could use that, yes. Number (14), Yes. (15), Leased one dollar per year, Canada Department of Transport. (16), The answer is no. (17), $5,592. 37. The second part of that answer is none.

(18) A Canso, wing repair 1 unable to be performed locally because of special equipment and tools required at the time. Question no. (194), which was in six parts,Mr. Speaker, referred to the Department of Mines, Agriculture .and Resources. The reason for this is, how many~pilots etc. were employed by the Government during '69 and '70, and the total amount of salaries and so on, this I am sure as hon. members will recall, this division was at that time with that department, and it is for this reason that we have referred it. Question no. (166), AN HON. MEMBER: Does the hon.

Minister want it put on the Order Paper again? MR. NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, no, I do not think it is necessary to put it on the Order Paper again. · I have already referred it to the hon. Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources, and I will be very happy to follow it up as I am aure he will. AN HON. MEMBER: Is he going to answer it now or? MR. NOLAN: We will send you a note. Question (166), asked by the hon. member for St. John's West, and appearing I believe,Mr.

Speake~ on the Order Paper of the 26th. of March. $2,800,000. to be repaid over fifteen years,with interest at seven and three quarters per annum, secured by a first mortgage on the premises. Answer to part two of the question, no. Interest in arr6'1rs $485,796.42 as at 31st. December, 1970. The Government or any agency of the Government has not bad to make any paymentst10r guarantees in connection with this matter. Ansver to part three, AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. NOLAN: Yes, correct, Mr. Speaker. Answer to part three of :(166) is no. Question no. (141), asked by the hon. aember for St.

John's East, and appearing 611

March 31, 1 71, Tape 147, Page 3 -- apb on the Order Paper of the 25th. of H: rch. The answer, the balance sheet required revisionJwhich was not completed during the 1970 session of the House of Assembly, and the report wi.l.l be tabled during the present session. Question 129, asked by the hon. memb,er for St. John's West, and appearing on the Order Paper of the 25th. of Marc ,. There are some figures involved here soJif I go too fast,please let me kuow,Mr. Speaker. Paragon Hotel>Limited Capital $43,558.65. (Inaudible) MR: NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, I have no copies of it; apart from the one I have here.

I will repeat it and repeat it. MR. MURPHY AND MR. RICI.WAN: (Inaudible_) MR. SPEAKER: Order please! Will the hon. Minister continue with his answer. MR. NOLAN: I think they can write. Could I now, I did not finish that part of the answer which I believe the hon. member for St. John's West at least, was making a note of. Paragon Hotel ,imited, $43,558.65. Interest $24,580.29. moratorium. Sea-Mining Corporation Ltd. Capital nil. The interest in this instance $485.196.42, principal payments deferred to March 1972. If the hon. members would like for me to have this copied I will arrange to do it Mr.

Speaker and have it circulated. These are the only two I have in reference to the question of 129 on the Order Paper of March 25th. The question was as I recall, list all the loans made by the Newfoundland Industrial Development Corporation in which there are arrears of interest or capital repayment, indicating in each instance and under these headings the amunt of arrears, and also the steps taken to collect. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. NOLAN: The steps taken to collect are our best efforts. I really am not being evasive on this Mr . Speaker.

I know thatsthe departments concerned are working on it, but exactly what it is they have done to this moment, or what they have not done - it would be misleading I think if I attempted to give an answer on that. MR. MARSHALL: The hon. the minister in referring to Paragon Hotel Ltd. mentioned the word moratorium, and I presume this is the steps that have been 612

March 31, 1971, Tape 147, Page 4 - apb taken to collect, to give them a moratorium. Is this correct? MR.. NOLAN: I have not checked on this with my colleague the hon. or the acting Minister of Finance, but I ass'- that this ia the intention •. Perhap  he may want -to amplify on this question or answer. MR. MARSHALL: A further supplementary question?~. Speaker. I would like to know the terms of the moratorium. A moratorium has certain tel'1118 and conditions. MR. NOLAN: I will take it as notice Mr. Speaker. 613

March 31st. 1971 Tape 148 PK - 1 MR. H. COLLINS: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, Question No.192, (18) refers to the Canso water bomber which was out of service last summer, because of wing damage, md the plane was sent to Montreal instead of Gander.where the repairs could have had been done quickly. Would the minister indicate to the House how long the water bomber was out of service? MR. NOLAN: I cannot name the specific days, I know it was a very short time~ I am told. Obviously, as minister I do not decide to send the bomber anyway, to be serviced, I do this on the advice of the officials concerned.

Perhaps, my hon. friend, the Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources could be a little more specific,than I am on that point,at this moment. MR. COLLINS: Perhaps he could enlighten us on some of the other areas as well. Mr. Speaker there are a lot 6f parts to this,which we have not received answers. Now do we have to put the questions on the Order Paper again or is the Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources going to try to enlighten us? MR. NOLAN: Mr.

Speaker, I have already indicated in the answers that ,'· ~ have agreed ___ to table the copy of the agreemen; requested by my hon. friend opposite, that the questions would be referred to my hon. colleague, the Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources. This is being done., for the simple reason that the information required or asked is available in I that department where they have this division at thr.. . time. I have alreadJ7i in your presence,passed on one list of questions to;and from the hon. member opposite,from Gander.

And, I would assum& that he will take care of the other questions, I have no reason to doubt it. MR. EARLE: Mr. Speaker, Question No. 129, would the hon. minister tell the House. if 'the Sea Mining Corporation is presem:ly in operation, and if so, is it adding to or deducting from its indebtness? MR. NOLAN: I will take it as a notice ~ Mr. Speaker. MR. CROSIBE: Mr. Speaker, in a supplementary question 1 in connection with Sea Minin~ Corporation,it was announced by the Premier,sot11e time a~o, that 614

MR. CROSBIF.: Lmdrigan's were taking it over. Could the minister perhaps make a statement to the House explaining this week what is actually happening in conncection with Sea Mining? MR. NOLAN: Within recent weeks and days, as a matter of fact, there have been continual meetings on this, and again,while I do not have the details available, I know that the Premier himself indeed attended a meeting quite recent.lyi' : a discussion on this. And, perhaps, he may feel free at this \ ' . time to answer the question of my hon. friend opposite. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr.

Speaker, when the plant was built in the first place at Port au Port, it was built as a partnership between a gentleman in New Brunswick, a doctor,Fredrick Gormley and Continental Ores of ~e~-­ York. Continental Ores withdrew from it and passed their shares in the enterprise over to the Limdrigan Firm, who were owed, I think, half a million dollars,or even more,by the enterprise, so-that they received shares for their debt. Then Dr. Gormley finally withdrew from it, passing his shares over as well to the L\Dldrigan Firm. The Lundrigan Firm assumed the debt that the enterprise owed to the Newfoundland Govemment.

And at the same time began to negotiate with various people,on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean. These negotiatiens have now narrowed down to one c0tnpany, and that one company, if not the largest of its kind in the world is certainly one of the two largest, and maybe the largest in its own right, very, very large company indeed,with plants of this kind in many parts of the worl~ on a number of continents.

The negotiations revolve around a programme of treblinr, or possibly quadruplin~ the size of the plant and the_: -~1-~e. ~{ __ output in the plant and ·a very substantial upgrading of the product of the plant. 1 have been kept closely informed of the progress of the ne~otiations. A meeting took place only a few days ago, the latest meeting, and I believe that the neiotiations are proceedini very smoothly and may result quite soon, by which I mean a few weeks, i~ a successful culmination. Certainly, the Government and~ am sure,this House and-people would warmly welcome the 615

March 31st. 1971 Tape 148 PK - 3 MR. SMALLWOOD: coming into this Province of a very great and reputable company and would be very pleased if this plant were to be in effect taken over by a company having the know-how and the world connections to develop it into what it was suppose to be at the start, the way Dr. Gromley of New Brunswick and Continental Ores of New York built the plant in the first place. MR. CROSBIE: I would like to repeat the matter of this particular situation. Will there be a report made in the House as to why the enterprises failed so far?

I mean,obviously it has failed to date~ 111hat are the reasons for that failure, and have we reason to expect that it can · be success~ully? Would there be some repor~ made on that point? MR,. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, I am very hopeful that we will be able.that my hon. colleague the Minister of Economic Development,at the right moment, I hope is during the life of the present session of the House,will be able to report to the House the successful culmination of these aegotiations with which he is kept closely in toueh, as I am, and if there is a sucessful culmination to these present negotiations.

I think the reasons for the failure of the ori~inal owners,and promoters, Dr. Gormley and Continental Ores, who are one of the great companies of its kind in the United States, would become a matter of precious little concern or interest and will be sunk in the,lost in the great new interest that will be generated oy the coming in of a great successful company in this field. I think, perhaps, I could dare to add that in this particular field of magnesia and magnesite, the company in question is the largest in the world. I believe they are from the other side of the Atlantic. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR.

NOLAN: Mr, Speaker, I have not finished with the - I am sorry I have not finished with- MR. SPEAKER: Continue. MR. NOLAN: the questions and if I repeat some here I hope the members of i,,;,..'l the Rouse will. it to my attention, so that I can revert to others that have not been answered. No. 97 by the hon. the member for St. John's East 616

March 31st. 1971 Tape 148 PK - 4 MR. NOLAN: appearin~ on the Order Paper of the 25th._ of March. $2,800,000 . And no such agreements have been concluded. I am not sure if I have answered this, Nr. Speaker, or if this was included in another question as asked by another hon. member. 617

March 31st, 1971 Tape 149 JM - 1 MR. NOLAN: Number 152 asked by the hon. member for St. John's East on the Order Paper of March 25th, these documents will be tabled as required by

section 6 of the Refinery Agreement Amendment Act; 1970. Quest ::on number 168 asked by the hon. member for St, John's West on the Order Paper of the 26th of March 1971. The answer is Marystown Shipyard Const;,uction,, Limited.

The question is (1) "In connection with Newfoundland Industrial Development Corportation to what persons or corporations has Newfoundland Industrial Development Corporation advanced moneys by way of loan or otherwise since March 1, 1970, what was the amount of any such advance or loan in the case of each such person or corporation, what are the :erms of each such loan or advance to each such person or corporation and w~at security is held by Newfoundland Industrial Development Corporatio~ in connection with each such loan or advance?

The answer is Marystown Shipyard Construction,Limited, $10,000,,the terms demand interest rate 7~ p~r ·cent, the security notes of Crown Corporation - title in the name of the Crown.

(2) National Sea Products,Limited, $1,700,000., the terms thirty-five equal semiannual .-~ installments, the interest rate eight per cent, the security first mortgage. Part three of this question, Mr. Speaker - MR. CROSBIE: No, it will take too long, only these two. MR. NOLAN: Well, I have another answer here which may or may not apply and that is,yes, Sea Mini~g Corporation,Limited, interest $4RS,796.42, This is (

a) of (2) actually I would suggest to my hon. friend opposite. MR. CROSBIE: The answer to (1) of 168 is these two loans,since March 1st, 1970. MR. NOLAN: That is correct, Mr. Speaker. Question 236 - MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, before you go on to that question, in connection with question 168 part (2) asks, "In connection with any advances of money or loans by Newfoundland Industrial Development Corporation, .·.is ar.y such firm or corporation in default and,if so, the name." The Minister aaic Sea Mining. Now in responding to a similar question a few minutes ago he listt id two names - Sea Mining and Paragon. '518

March 31st, 1971 Tape 149 JM - 2 MR. NOLAN: Yes, which I did. I think I can see the reason for the concern of the hon. member opposite 0 and I will certainly have that checked, Mr. Speaker. MR. CROSBIE: Yes, there are two different answers to the same question. MR. NOLAN: Yes. Question 236,asked by the hon. the member for St. John's East, Mr. Speaker. The question is in five parts and the answers are as follows': (1) "Was the firm of T.E.

McLaughlin Development Associates Ltd. engaged to perform any work by the Government of Newfoundland!" The answer is yes. (2) "If so, for what purpose were they employed and what are the terms of commission or engagement?" The answer, to undertake industrial promotion and prospecting from October 1, 1970 to March 31, 1971 and with an option for a one year renewal by the Government of Newfoundland. (3) "What remuneration has been agreed to be paid to T.E.

McLaughlin Development Associates Ltd.?" Fee for services $10,000. per month plus properly documented direct expenses up to $2,500. per month. (4) ''Have any reports been received from T.E. McLaughlin Development Associates,Ltd. pursuant to the terms of its commission or engagement?" The answer to that 1s ince T. E. McLaughlin Associates have kept me informed, fully informed -, !_might add, Mr.

Speaker, as required,no detail progress reports have been considered necessary although they could have been under the terms of the agreement but we are in constant touch,both by phone and they visit Newfoundland very frequently and we have meetings on a regular basis. (5) "If the answer to (3) is yes, table the said reports." I WO\::ld hope that the answers I have given are satisfactory and acceptable, Mr. Speaker. MR. HICKMA.."1: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Would the hen. Minister indicate to the House if T .E.

McLaughlin Development Assc,ciates, Ltd. is the same company that used to work for the Cape Breton Development Corporation and used to work for the Government of Nova Scotia? MR. NOLAN: My hon. friend, Mr. Speaker,or one of his colleagues asked that question earlier in this session and to that I replied, "I do not know, you will have to check with T. E. McLaughlin." I do not know my hon. friend's · clients · · either, in the law business.

March 31st, 1971 Tape 149 .TM - 3 MR. HICKMAN: Would the hon. Minister indicate to the House what steps were taken by Government before retaining these associates to check on the experience that T. E. McLaughlin Associates has had in the field of promoting industrial development in the Atlantic Provinces? MR. NOLAN: We have had officials check and they were recommended to us, They were in this not only in Canada but also in the United States. We had them, .frank.ly, Mr. Speaker, on a trial basis for, I believe, six mon-:hs as 1 indicated and the job that they have done in that time is satisfactory to us.

We could have a longer agreement with them but we were not ,3atisfied to do that until we were in a position to examine the performance, if you like, and to examine new contracts and so on, Humber 206 - MR. MARSHALL: I have a question, Mr. Speaker, Could the hon. the Minister inform·of the recommendations, generally the recoUDDendations received if any from this firm and whether they are being acted upon? MR. HOLAN: Yes, many of the recommendations. What they have done, in fact, Mr. Speaker, is they have any number of people that they are in regular touch with.

They have done mailing pieces or sent out mailing pieces in 111a11y areas. They are about to do one ,incidentally_. in Germany. Anc ther thing is that they. vere_some of the people who brought in, as I have indicated to the hon. members of this House previously, industrial~ .sts on a tour of this Province, in the last few months. Also,aa a result of that, we already have a number of firms who have indicated some interest in establishing here and negotiations are going on continuously on th~s. As a matter of fact, in the answer to the next question 1 have,which ~s number· 2061 I refer to one such firm.

Question 206 and again asked by my hon. friend, the member for St. John's East. (1) "Has the Government made 8!1Y COIIIDlitment to RO Industries Ltd. in the establishment of an electronic industry at Stephenville?" The answer is yes. (2) "If so. what commitments have been made under the following headings: (

a) Financial or capital (

b) Premises (

c) Taxation and (

d) Subsidies." The answers are to (2)(a), 620

March 31st, 1971 Tape 149 JM - 4 MR. NOLAN: (b),(c). and (d) - none, two buildings to be made available at a nominal rate; (c) - none; (d) - none. MR.. HICKMAN : Would the hon. Minister indicate to the House whether RKO lndustries,Ltd. or one of its subsidaries attempted or did try to establish an industry in the Atlantic Provinces in the past year ibrought in by McLaughlin Associates? MR. NOLAN: I have no idea, Mr. Speakei. MR. HICKMAN: Cape Breton Development Corporation/ MR. NOLAN: I have no idea, Mr. Speaker. MR. HICKMAN: Surely you must have checked on them before you hired them. MR. NOLAN: Mr.

Speaker, why do we have to put up with such insidious remarks from the hon. member opposite? A firm comes in here and establishes. By implicatio~ 1he implies that they went to another area and perha?s there might have been something wrong there. This group were checked,as I have indicated in the Press Conference where we announced this industry. They went through the DREE requirements, the people from Ottawa and pro?incially, went to their plants in the United States,investigated it very, very thoroughly.

They have met all the commitments required of them an~ the I fact that they did or did not attempt to establish in Upper Slqvovia and I failed is of no concem to me, I am concemed about Newfoundland. MR. HICKMAN: At least we know now. MR. CROSBIE : Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. When a finr, is looking to establish here in Newfoundland and wishes the Minister's assistance, does the Minister inquire as to whether they have tried the Governments.-in other Provinces? For example,the Sea Mining Corporation, Mr.

Gormley, had attempted to locate in New Brunswick or Nova Scotia and had been rejected, his plan had been rejected as not being feasible and had we known that,we would not be in the trouble with Sea Mining we are today. MR.. NOLAN: In reply to the question from my hon. friend opposite the answer is yes, we do check.

(2) We are not always successful in covering all bases, Not only do we check but where there is involvement on behalf of the Federal Government, for example, through DUE, through the Industrial Incentives Act,as there was in Sea Mining, 1 am told, 621

March 31 1971 Tape 150 page 1. we check in so far as it is humanl/ ·~ possible to· do so. If we have infonnation that mi~ht lead us to believe that they have had negotiations with another Government,in another Province or another country. we check that too,in so far as it is possible to do so.

I think you will realize that in some cases it is not easy to get all the information we want. 1· am convinced myself that. 1at least in my own experience, that we have checked as closely as we can and that I,at least in the case of RKO and also in the case of McLoughlin Associates 7who have acted on our behalf in a number of instances,and based on the p~rformance that we have up to this moment;that all things have been reasonably satisfactory. I would hope that it can continue. The DREE people sent people down to the United States to investigate the application of RKO.

I might add that the components manufactured by RK01 in the States, will be manufactured here in Newfoundland,are presently being used by General ~lectric, heat kits, that many Newfoundlanders have bought from time to time,fhey are now working on components, they are not manufactured~ many of them are not manufactured at all in Canada,at this moment. There are many other details that I could go into on this but I have other questions to answer and I do not want to delay the House unduly. MR.

MARSHALL: Mr Speaker, there is a further supplementary question - kas the \ commitment of RKO industries,Limited, is it conditional upon the giving of any ·-. fiscal aapport by the Govennnent or any privileges on taxation or any subsidy of any nature( i . . MR.NOLAN: I refer m,. hon. friend-to the question (2) of (6) that I have just answered. The answers were as follows: Yes. 2 (

a) toilet ::-::_('It~ ' two buildings to be made available at a nominal rate. tc) none. (

d) none. MR.MARSHALL: Yes, Mr. Speaker, but notice the way the hon. members on the other aide play with words. The question is, if so, what commitments have been made? I am now asking a su~plementary question. MR,NOLAN: I, Mr. Speaker,will take it as notice. MR.MARSHALL: The hon. minister does not wish to reply. 622

March 31° 1971 Tape 150 page 2. MR.NOLAN: Mr. Speaker I have been here,until my feet are falling asleep 7 answering questions, and he tells me he is not interested in replying. Question No. 50, Mr. Speaker. I refer this question to my colleague,the hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs & Housing. Question No. 99. I refer this question to my colleague;the hon. Minister of Mines Agriculture & Resources. Question No. 138, MR.CROSBIE: A supplementary question, in connection ~th

part 3 of question 99 - surely the Minister of Economic Development knows whether a request like that has been made or not. Cannot the Minister answer this part of the question? MR.NOLAN: I believe we answered that in

part last evening,Mr. S9eaker,here in this House,in the early hours of the morning. Since the divisio~to which was referred last night, the air, water, soil authoritjc ,is under my hon. colleague, the Minister of Mines, Agriculture & Resources. I am forwarding it to him, so you can get the complete information in realtion to the complete question as tabled by my hon. friend from St. John's East. No. 99~ Question No • . 138, ,I refer it to my coliea~e,the Hon. Minister of Mines, Agriculture & Resources , Question No. 100. again I refer it to the Minister of Mines, Agriculture & Resources.

Question No. 139 ,AnsweT is no. Question No. 272, March 29, (1) yes. (2) the survey was made by the Provincial Parks service 1 completed in 1970,and the area of the Provincial Park :.is 6,800 acres. The park area was proclaimed in the Newfoundland Gazette on February 2, 1971.

(3) The Minister made no such announcement but the Ministe2 did announce,at the Hewfoandland Labrador Develop- ment ConfeFence,, that the cost of the whole programme~to build eighteen new parks to improve thirty beaches for recreation and to build a number of landing strips~would be about $2 million. (4) no construction work has yet begun. MR.HICKMAN: The last part, when? MR.NOLAN: I am sorry,Mr. Speaker, MR.HICKMAN: You did not quite - I know you intended to - The hon. minister intended to answer the question completely. When? When is work goin~ to commence? 623

March 3i 1971 Tape 150 page 3~ !fR.NOLAN: As soon as it is humalliJ .- possible. MR.RICKMAN: That is tomorrow morning. IIR..NOLAN: Could be this afternoon. MR.RICKMAN: This afternoon, all right, get that in the mail tomorrow. That is it, work starts this afternoon on the Fresh1fater Provincial Park. MR.NOLAN: Qustion No. 275,

(1) William B. Wismer, ~c,~ B~~St~adJ'=-0._L.Vardy.

(2) Yes.

(3) Mr:. Leo B. Stead. MR.HICKMAN: Would the hon. minister permit a supplementary question? ls Mr. Oliver L. Vardy the chairman of the voting trust? MR.NOLAN: Offhand I cannot supply the answer te that Mr. Speaker, but I would gladly attempt to - MR.HICKMAN: Would the hon. minister indicate to the Rouse when Mr. Vardy was appointed, the date? MR..NOLAN: No, r do not have the date available Mr. Speaker. 624

March 31st., 1971 Tape no. 151 Page l Hr. Nolan. Ho, I do not have the date available, Mr. Speaker. HR. HICKMAN: MR. NOLAN: There is lots of time yet. It is 4:40 p.m. ~uestion no. 302?on the Order Paper of March 30th., asked by the hon. member for St. John's East. In four parts, Mr, Speater.

(1) The answer is yes.

(2) Martin Goldfar Consultants.

(3) Yes, $75,000 - $25,000 at the time of the engagement, $25,000 April 1, 1971 and $25,000 at completion.

(4) No, the study has to do with , "tourist motivation in Canada and selected U.S. centres. Mr. Speaker, the next question I have is Question no, 58 of March 25th. •It is very lengthy,;ln order to provide all of the information. What I thought of doing,-if it is permissible, Mr. Speaker, is to read the bare bones of the thing and to table it for the information of the hon. members, although I only have one copy available at the moment. I will quite happily table that. Question no. 58.,asked by the hon. member for St. John's East. The answer (It is a seven part question) to part (1), Yes.

(2) Yes. (3)(a)' Earle Electric~ $65,708; (

b) Public Address System, $20,065; (

c) Gas Turbine Relocation $5, 792.; (

d) Marine Terminal Shore Line Walkway, $9,060.

(4) The answer is fourteen. (5) (

a) Canadian Comstock, $61,000; Bedard-Girard $67,000; ~hl~j: Electrical $43,707; North East Development Company $168,250; A. D. Ross & Company $92,357; Gander Electric $49,600; Noseworthy $650 708. (

b) Beamer Lathrop $20,947; Noaeworthy $20~065; (

c) Beamer Lathrop $8,800; Noseworthy $5,792. (

d) Canadian Hoosier $11,860; Ashley $11,545; Noseworthy $9,060. Part (6) the answer is none, Mr. Speaker.

(7) Not applicable. I might say in this regard that the answers, particularly, ubsection(3)(b) (3)(

c) and (3)(d). I am quite confident, they are references to Question no. 271,on the House of Assembly Order Paper of 7th April, 1970. 625 ./

March 30th •• 1971 Tape DO. 151 Page 2 Mr. Nolan. 1 have attached such information here for the information of my hon. friends. 1 only have, I think, one copy. Perhaps we could arrange through the magic machine to get it Zeroxed. MR. HICKMAN: The hon. minister is doing a great job of emptying the galleries. _KR. NOLAN: Question no. 133 of March 25th. I believe, Mr. Speaker, asked by the hon. member for St. John's East. There are six questions, as I recall. The answers: $1,090,460 (2) $1 million.

(3) Nil.(4) $49,000. This amount included coverage for icing, earthquake, flood, windstorm, fire and similar perils.

(5) Major Insurance Underwriters in Europe and North America, not only because of the losses incurred in Newfoundland but also because of similar icing storm damages in other parts of Canada and the United States have, in effect, by raising premium rates approximately 700 per cent, refused coverage for icing damages for all power utility companies in Canada and the United States. Premiums paid for other perils, except icing, remain unchanged in a three year contract arranged by the Power Commi11&ion,covering the period 1 April, 197-1 - 31 March, 1974. The answer to part

(6) Hone~ Since there are some figures included in this, perhaps, it aight be appropriate if I again uk to have this copied and have it circulated to hon. members who may be interested. There will be a slight delay, There are already papers in the machine. MR. MURPHY: Do not adjust your set. MR. NOLAN: As I indicated earlier, Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the agreement between Atlantic and the Government of this Province - Atlantic Aviation, I would like to have this tabled. Again, I only have one copy. obviously,and it should be sufficient, I hope, for the information 626

March 31st., 1971 Tape no 151 Page 3 Mr. Nolan required by hon. members, and to see that it is made available. On today's Order Paper, Mr, Speaker, Question no. 322 asked by the hon. member for St, John's East: to,.ask the Minister of Economic Development to lay upon the table of the House the following information, (1), What was the purpose of the minister's trip to Romania in 1971? What are the results of the trip?

I am not being evasive, when I say that I would hope, perhaps, th~ hon. member opposite might accept the answer, although, it was not in answer to this direct question, The explanation as offered by the hon. the Premier at the beginning of this session in welcoming the distinguished guests from Romania and also the fact that we have another group coming from Romania next week, I believe. It was to discuss the possibility of collaboration between companies in Canada and Romania to establish in Newfo1D1dland.

I am sure that the hon. member knows that any firms in North America, in the United States, for example, such as Ford, and one of the giant rubber companies 1 are planning to establish plants in Romania. Some of which are j.oint ventures of one kind and another.

It is our hope that they will take a good look at Newfoundland, as they are now doing and meeting, even at this moment, with officials in the Department of Mines, Agriculture and Resources,and another group will be here next week, They are also, of course, carrying on trade already with other parts of Canada, We would hope that we can come up with a close working relationship that can be beneficial to both the people of Romania and to the people of this Province, MR, BICKMAN: Will this have any effect on the NATO agreements? MR, NOLAN: My hon. friend is not drawing up the documents. BON, E.

DAWE (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): Mr. Speaker, in answer to Question no, 233,asked by the hon, member for St. John's West~ on the Order Paper of March 29th. In answer to the first part of the question: $16,981,403.21 6 2 7

March 31st. 1971 Tape 152 PK - 1 MR. DAWE: The answer to the second · part of the question; total debenture guaranteed $22,108,000. Total debenture ttebt; $14,726,000. And the answer to the third part of the question; not covered in one and two above; $975,041.14. I am going to table this question, Mr. Speaker, for the information of the members. Answer to the question of March 29th. Question 248,asked by the hon. the member for St.

John's Centre, the answer to the first part of the question: Did the legal officers of the Department of Justice or the corporation undertake all legal work in connection with the acquisition of real estate . . by Newfoundland and Labrador Housing since April 1, 19'10? The answer is "31es." Therefore, the second partsof the question,"do not arise," Answer to Question No. 252~on the Order Paper of March 29th. asked by the ' hon. the member for St. John's Centre. The answer to the first part of the question - who is the Chairman and who are the members of the Rent Control Board? The Chairman is Mr. David Riche.

Members of the Board, Mr. W.R. Dawe, Mr. James Seymour, Mr. J.J. Healey, and Mr. Roy Tiller.

(2) How many times did they meet in 1970? Ten times in 1970.

(3) How many caaes? Discussed seventeen cases ., in one of these cases sixty applicants were studied and those were from the Town of Bay Vert~- The answer to the fourth part of the question; the Chairman receives $50,00 per meeting or a minimum of $600 per annum, and only one member of the Board, Mr. W.R.­ Dawe,recieves $25.00 per meeting. The other members are civil servants and naturally do not ~et paid. H~ R. Dawe is the only other member. :"J •• Answer to Question No. 267 of March 29th.,asked by the hon. the member for Burin; we did receive two petitions from Garnish.

One of the petitions favoured.e;:.c local Government and we had contra-pe _tition,with about the S81!\e number of signatures.against Local Municipal Government, and we are now circulating another petition to try to determine the true wishes of the people. In answer to Question on today's Order Paper - MR. COLLINS: A supplementary question to that, does the minister mean that his department is circulating a petition or caus1'1g.,.a petition to be circulated by the residents? 628

March 31st. 1971 Tape 152 Pk - 2 MR. DAWE: To answer that question, Mr. Speaker, a petition is now being circulated to ascertain the true position. 1 ~an get that answer , for you. I _.do not assume that our department is doing it actually. I understand some interested groups, I would assUIM! they are circulating another petition to try, Mr. Speaker, the true position of the residents of Garnish. MR. COLLINS: Surely, Mr. Speaker, not the wishes of the Government, this would have to be done through local initiatiw~ . MR.

DAWE: I did not say the wishes of the Government. 1 said a petition has now been circulated to determine the true position with regard to the peoples wishes, with regards to Garnish. MR. EARLE: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, where do you see the two petitions? Check for accuracy. MR. DAWE: · Why, yes, Mr.

Speaker, all petitions are received and they are studied by the officials of the department and as far as possible this is determined by a co'mi,lete scrutinJ · of--the voters list, the latest voters list that is available to the department,and we try to make certain as far as possible that at least fifty percent plus one of the c~ity favour local incorporation,before we recommend it to Cabinet that this community would be incorporated, . ·.: 1 say -11s far as possible ,this· is gone into in great detail and we have complaints from time to. time,while some of these petitions are being held up, and this is the reason why we have a complete impartial investigation to all that we have received.

MR. HICKMAN: Would the hon. minister permit a supplementary question? Do I gather from your latest c0111111ent, if in any co111111unity fify percent plus one of the people request local Government.you would then implement that request? MR. DAWE: I would bring my recommendation to the Lieutenant.Governor-in­ Council and they will lnake the final decision. But our ·recommendation there would be incorporated. MR. HICKMAN: You would recommend it. MR. DAWE: That is right. 629

March 31st. 1971 Tape 152 PK - 3 MR. DAWE: Answer to Question ijo, 322 on today's Order Paper,asked by the 'hon. the member for St. John's Centre. The answer to the first part of the question is, "no," MR. HICDf.AN: Question numbe_:( w~~! _ MR. DAWE: I am sorry,Question No. 321, asked by the hon. the member for St. John's Centre, the answer to the first part of the question is, "no," We have had preliminary discussion with the members of the Householders Union on the Blackhea~ Road and this is being in consultation with their Provincial member, and no decision has been arrived at.

I can assure the people of the Blackhead Road that no decision will be arrived at until they will have such time to express their views, if they should deride to accept some form of local Government. The second part of the question - who is to assume responsibility for such services as street lighting, garbage collection, etc.?

This is now been provided by the St, John's Area Metropolitan __ Board and funds are provided out of the Urban Renewal Scheme, and until that time, until the scheme itself is completed,these funds will be provided out of this shared-cost agreement between the Fe.deral and Provincial Governments, and until such time I would asnure 'thia would be the practice and.,after the scheme is completed, then some other arrange will be made. MR. CROSBIE: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

In connection with all these services, street lighting, garbage collection etc., has their been any contribution at all from the residents of the Blackhead Road towards the cost of those services? And if the charge that was instituted,at fifty cents per month~for collecting night soil has that been discontinu~d? MR. DAWE: In answer to that question, Mr. Speaker, to my understa,ding no charge is being made for any services now on the Blackhead Road, but to make certain I will check into it further. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. CALLAHAN: . Further answers, Mr. Speaker. MR. CROSBIF.: It is 5:00 P.M.

NR., CALLAHAN: Oh, I thought, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman asked me earlier to - 330

~rch 31st . 1971 Tape 152 PK - 4 MR. CROSBIE: On a point of order. We point out that it is now five o'clock and this is Private Members Day, and that we would, therefore, request the Government to allow us to have an hours · debate on our Private Members Resolution. MR. SPEAKER: Would the hon. member continue his answers, if he wishes to do so. MR.! CALLAHAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. HICKMAN: It is going to be a long hard session, Mr. Speaker. MR. CROSBIE: This is closure too. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. HICKMAN: That is not "closure," it is "fuddle duddle." 1-m. CALI.ARAN: Question No. 192, Mr.

Speaker, which was referred in part to me by my colleague, the Minister of Economic Development,in Supply and Services ..and to which, I think, attention was drawn by the hon. member for Gander 631

March 31, 1971, tape 153, Page 1 - apb MR. CALLAHAN: Queation no. 192, the date is not on the copy Mr. Speaker. MR. MYRDEN: · The date should be on the copy then because •••••• MR. CALLAHAN: Well it is not on the copy of the answer that was passed me by my colleague Mr. Speaker. In respect of part three of the question, what services were provided by East~rn Provincial Airways Ltd. in 1969-70 in connection with the service, management and operation of Government planes? .:the answer Mr.

Speaker is servicing, operational maintainence, crewing and the operation of the aircraft, under the direction of Government officers, principally in the forest service. Part four, what was the sum paid to E.P.A. in 1969 and '70 for any services provided in three above? I refer hon. members Mr. Speaker, to the revised estimates tabled in the House one year ago, in which there was a vote for aircraft operation which totally provided for the contract with Eastern Provincial airways. MR. CROSBIE: That is not an answer, that is not an answer. MR. C.ALLAR.A.N : It is an answer Mr.

Speaker, the information was tabled in this House and is available to hon. members; MR. __ CRO§_BJE :_ That is a bluff, that is not an answer. Do not waste out time with that thrash. MR. CALLAHAN: Part eighteen of the question Mr. Speaker ••••••• MR. CROSBIE: Smart aleck. ------ MR. CALLAHAN: During 1970 were any Government aircraft - Mr. Speaker, I am under the impression that a question is not in order to be placed on the Order Paper if the answer is readily and equally available to hon. members as to the minister. MR. HICIO!AN: Eighteen has already been answered. MR. CALLAHAN: In this case~Mr.

Speaker, the information was tabled in this House in the revised estimates of one year ago, and therefore, is equally available to hon. members on the other side. Part eighteen of that question in respect of the Canso aircraft that was damaged, my information,Mr. Speaker, is that the time for repair was approximately three weeks. ~~-~OL!,_I~p~ (Inaudible) ~~ f!.!-.L!"~: Mr. Speaker, it could not have been done in Gander. 632

March 31, 1971, Tape 153, Page 2 - apb Mil. COLLINS: (Inaudible) Mil. CALLAHAN: Mr. Speaker, it could not have been done in Gander for a number of reasons, including the fact, that the equipment and spare parts which were in Gander, had they been able to be used for that repair job, already had been transferred to St. John's and purchased by the Government Air Service. !ut the fact of the matter is, ·that the work could not in any cue have been done in Newfoundland as quickly and as expeditiously as it was able to be done in Montreal, nor in my opinion, as economically. Mr.

Speaker, I could refer to question (100), standing on the Order Paper in the name of the hon. the member for St. John's East, the Order Paper of March 25th.,which also has been referred to ·me for the answer, by my colleague the Minister of Economical Development. Mr. Speaker, I should iike to reply to this -question in a general way,for the purpose of at the same:.; time replying to .a nu.mber of questi~ns referring to the same matter which appears throughout the Order Paper.

I think there are five or six or seven questions referring to this matter, the matter being in the terms of queation (100), has the Government undertaken a study or had a study on their behalf done 1 before or after the submission of engineering plans by Newfoundland Refining Co.Ltd., of their refinery at Come by Chance on the pollution effect on land, air and water by the construction of such a plant? The the question goe• on, if so by whom? Was the study completed if so, has the rep~rt been received, and if the answer to three is yes, table the copy. Mr. Speaker, I do not know •••••••••. Mil.

BICI<MAN: Right, that is the answer "I do not know." MR. CALLAHAN: Mr. Speaker, I do not know where the impression derives that a report was to be done or commissioned to be done on Come by Chance. In view of the fact that a number of questions are 1as I have said, on the Order Paper, and ask whether a report or the report has been commissioned, and if coanissioned to whom, and if commissioned was it received •••••• Mil. BICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order.

My understanding of questions in this House, is that hon. mmilbers have the right to ask questions and are entitled to e~pect that they will receive an answer, but not an oration. This 1a not an answer to a question ve are getting now~ , This is a very simple 6S3

March 31, 19711 Tape 153, Page 3 -- apb question and could be answered yes or no. I submit,Mr. Speaker, that this deliberate delaying of the proceedings of the Hous~ by hon. ministers on the other side 1ahould be brought to the attention of the Chair and I now do that. This is not an answer to a question that we are getting now. MR. SPEAKER (Noel) : Hon. members know thattthe rule is that answers to questions should be brief and to the point. MR. CALLAHAN: Mr. Speaker, I will make it brief and to the point, as brief and to the point as is necessary to give the House the information.

I ·do not intend to give the House and answer which would be misleading to this House and to the people of this Province. Mr. Speaker, the Government had_ never said, implied or indicated at any time that a report was to be co'llll!lissioned in respect of Come by Chance. Other people~·•·····• MR. CROSBIE: You are on a point of order,this is not the answer to the question~ This outrage has gone far enough. The question is, has the Government undertaken a study of or bad a study on their behalf done? , Either yea they have. or no they have not.

The answer is not the Government has never said it would this, that or the other thing. This is an outrage, this is Private Members Day and thereare -only fifty minutes left until six o'clock and this kind of bluff and chicanery is going on. Answer the question, or do not answer it at all. MR. CALLAHAN: Mr. Chairman, there has never been an indication by the Government that a report is to be ••••••• MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, may we have a ruling from·:the Chair insofar as this nonsense that we now bear emanating~where the hon. minister is concerned.

There is no suggestion in that question that the Government had asked or said that. MR. SPEAKER: It is not for the Chair to say exactly how a question should be answered, but the rule is, that the answer should be short and to the point. One would think that that question should be answered yes or no. MR. CALLAHAN: It might be indeed,Mr. Speaker, as I said at the risk of misleading the House. The question is designed to mislead the House,in my opinion ,as are number of others. There is no,!report to be done. The require ••••• 634

March 31, 1971, Tape 153, Page 4 -- apb MR. CROSBIE: No, study. no study, no study is the answer. No , study, no report, no study, no study done. None requested by the Government, none done. MR. CALLAHAN: Does the hon, gentleman want to make a speech? Do you want to make a speech? Does he want to make a speech? MR. CROSBIE: I want the minister to finish his nonsense and let us get on with the private members debate. MR. ~EN: It is only yes or no. AN HON. ME?-IBER: Giving too much information. MR.

CALLAHAN: Bill no. (81) of 1970, in sectio~ (20), requires the engineering plans in respect of this or any other project that will have affluent disposal to be submitted. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The hon. minister is entitled to give all the background of any law relating to the matter. These questions seem to be quite simple and straightforward, and the hon. minister should answer or refuse to answer as the case may be. MR. CALLAHAN: 'Ihank you Mr. Speaker, the fact is that that is the requirement of the law. It is not a matter of rumour. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, the ruling is being defied.

It is being defied and I move Mr. Speaker, that the minister,if he does not observe your rulin&he be suspended from the House. !QME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. CROSBIE: The rules are here for both sides to observe. MR. MURPHY: I move.,for six weeks. MR. CALLAHAN: Mr. Speaker, if I can carry on. MR. HIC~: You cannot carry on, the Speaker has •••••••• MR. CALLAHAN: Question no. (24), on the Order Paper of ~.arch 25th. in the name of the hon. the member for Gander. The answer to the first

part is up to December 31st. 1970, ,75,343 cords. Question no. (2), what is the amount (

a) assessed and (

b) paid by Javelin Forest Products in royalties on its production? The answer Mr. Speaker, to (a) $42,156. The answer to (

b) the amount paid to date is $1,892. but because of a difference of ffa'gon between "' I

March 31, 1971, Tape 153, Page S -- apb the Government of the Province and the Government of Canada, as to which is entitled to the revenue, the company are not prepared to pay farther at this point until this matter is settled. MR. CROSBIE: What tripe, what tripe, $421 000. they have not paid. 75,000 cords gone. MR. CALLAHAN: Question no. (30) and standing in the name of the hon.member for Gander,on the Order Paper of March 25th. There are seven pastures developed,which will be ready for operation in 1971, located at Port au Port Gaskiers, Riverhead, Cormack and Wood Dale and St. Bride's.

I think I missed one Mr. Speaker Baie Verte Road. The expenditure, Port au Port, $9,181.00; Gaskiers $44,784.00; Riverhead $30,000.00; Cormack $55,115.90; Baie Verte Peninsula $41,978.00; Wood Dale $19,858.00; St. Bride's $11,507.88. Part three, the answer is, the ARDA agreement covering expenditures on each pasture vu extended to March 31st. 1971. The date of the conclusion of the present agreement is March 31st,,1971. What is the financial contribution ARDA has made or will make to the community pastures developed in 1970?

It is expected that ARDA will contribute $231,500. to community pastures development in the '70-'71 fical year. MR. CROSBIE: - ·- . - What about LiechtensteinT Can we have_;_nf~~t~~D on the . Liechtenstein Company? They own half of Labrador. We never get a word out of the minister on that one. MR. CALLAHAN: $231,500.00 Mr. Speaker, was that last figure. MR. BICKMAN: What is the name of that company? MR. CROSBIE: Liechtenstein, Transhipping. MR. HICKMAN: I thoµght it was Padora Financial,S.A. MR. CROSBIE Trar.shipping something or other. MR. CALLAHAN: Question no. (35) on the Order Paper of March 25th. 636

March 31st., 1971 Tape no. 154 Page 1 . Mr. Callahan. on the Order Paper of the 25th. March, standing in the name of the hon. the member for Burin. MR. RICKMAN: Thirty-five. MR. CALLAHAN: Thirty-five. MR. BICKMAN: Oh, yes! MR. CROSBIE: That is why they will not pay. It is all going to Liechtenstein. MR. CALLAHAN: Does the Newfoundland Liquor Commission first warehouse in St. John's all liquors and imported beers which are later required in branches other than St. John's? Th~ answer, Mr.

Speaker, is yes, apart from the few brands which are shipped direct to Montreal and Toronto by boat to Seven Islands and thence by rail to Wabush, Labrador , annually. Question no. 87,in the name of the hon. the member for Burin, on the Order Paper of March 25. What was the cost of printing the 1970 Budget Speech? The answer is 13,745. By wh~• was it printed? Creative Printers and Publishers Lim:l.ted,who are, of course, the Queen's Printer. To what vote was the cost of printing charged? The wte is 1803-03-0101. How many copies were printed? l'he answer, Mr. Speaker, i• 2,000. MR.

CROSBIE: Would the hon. the minister answer a supplementaty question? Be 1 obviously wanting to answer questions. Could the minister tell us of the 2,000 copies, how many are still on hand?. That is one part of it. Could the minister tell us how much it costs to publieh the pictures of the Premier and other Cabinet Ministers that are in it, the City of St. John's, the Home for the Aged, signing the Come-by-Chance Agreement, the picture of the old gentleman on the back - how much did it cost to put all that in the Budget Speech that was printed by the Department of Finance? Why are all those 637

March 31st., Tape no, 154 Page 2 Mr. Crosbie pictures in it? What has that got to do with the Budget for the finances of the Province? _MR., CALLAHAN':' I do not know the answer, Mr. Speaker, except that possibly to the last part,for the edification of the hon. gentleman who asked the question, I will try to find out how many copies are remaining. MR. CROSBIE: What about the pictures? MR. CALLAHAN: I assume that is the serious part of the question. MR. CROSBIE: Why are all these extra pages cf pictures in? MR. CALLAHAN: Question no. 70, Mr. Speaker, in the name of the hon. the member for St.

John's Centre, on the Order Paper of Mar.ch 25th. What amounts have been received since April 1, 1970 by the Government (

a) Interest; (

b) Repayment of capital from each of the fresh fish . companies to whom the Government have made direct loan? I will give two figures, Mr. Speaker, which will indicate in each case. The first ' figure will be interest and the second figura principal. Would the hon. minister table it please? MR. HICKMAN: lfll. CALLAHAN: I have only one copy here in this binder, Mr. Speaker. I guess I can table it. There must be others downstairs. I do not know if it is necessary,Mr. Speaker,to read the whole thing. Perhaps, I could table this copy. The total.in an event, Mr. Speaker, interest, $677,593.86.

The principal amount is $344,382.59 in respect of nineteen eparate companies. I will table it. The answer to the Question no. 138, Mr. Speaker, standing in the name of the hon. the member for St, John's East,on the Order Paper of March 25th, What steps have been taken by (

a) the Govemment (

b) Buchana Mining Company Limited to control and eliminate pollution of the Exploits Rive by effluent from the Buchana mine? The answer, Mr. Speaker, (

a) the Clean Air and Soil Authority has been in contact with the American Smelting and Refining Company at various times with respect to the pol.ution and control 638

MAR.c:H 31st., 1971 Tape no. 154 Page 3 Mr. Callahan. programme instituted by that company. The 1110st recent contact occurred on February 4, 1971 at a meeting in Grand Falls concerning the task-force study on the Exploits River Basin. American Smelting and Refining Company was represented by two of its executives. The contribution to the pollution problem by that company was considered at a meetingJin connection with all other problems,to the pollution of the Exploits River System. The concern of the authorityJwith respect to the Exploits River is, therefore, not confined to the pollution caused by American Smelting and Refining Company at Buchana only. (

b) The Buchans,Mining Company has submitted a two-phase programm!! which will control pollution emanating from their mining OP!.~~tion. Phase one was completed in October past. This phase covers eztensive improvements to the existing tailings in the area. The company has presently preliminary plans for phase two. These plans are currently being discussed with the aut~ority to ensure their adequacy. MR. CROSBIE: The answer is none. Hurrah! Here is the minister of baby talk. He gives a few answers. Look at that cheat come out. MR. NEARY: MR. CROSBIE: to have it. There is the wit from "Mutton <;hops" again, Mr.

Speaker. Just look at that cheat come out. Nov we are going MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to seven or eight questious •• MR. CROSBIE: 'fhe minister is in Labour now. _Mil. NEARY: Seven o_r eight questions, Mr. Speak.er. MR. CIQSBIE: How many? MR. NEARY: Seven or eight, I think, asked by the~ I think all the questions are asked by the hon. member for St • .John's East (Extern),who is not in his seat, in the House. Sulky! He probably rushed out of the Bouse again today sulking. Ml.. CROSBIE: To stay here 1 you have to have a strong stomach. He has a delicate stomach. the hon. member for St.

John's East (Extern), . Ml.. NEARY: Mutton Chops is very nippy today, Mr. Speak.er. 639

March 31st,, 1971 Tape no. 154 Page 4 MR. SPEAKER: These are going to be tabled now? MR. NEARY: No, these are not going to be tabled, ·· given orally'. These are going to be . MR. HICKMAN: You juat said, they were going to be tabled. MR., NEARY: No, they re not going to be tabled. I have to give them orally. MR, CROSBIE: The minister wants to speak. MR. NEARY: Question no. 188, Mr. Speaker, on the Order Paper of Friday, March 26th.

Part (1): Did the minister institute an enquiry into the circumstances ·surrounding a fire at The Girls Dome and Training School on Waterford Bridge Road on 24 November, 19707 The answer is yea, Mr. Speaker. If so who conducted the enquiry? Mr, R.R. Roberts, ' Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Social Services and Rehabilitation. If so, please table a copy of the report. I !9gret, Mr. Speaker, that I am prevented from tabling this report because of the involvment of names of child wards of the Province. Reference to the Welfare Children's Act, lection 50, the Revised Statues of Newfoundland, 1952

Chapter 60. MR.. BICKMAN: Would the hon. minister permit a suAf.ementary question? On that Board of Enquiry, were there other members besides Mr. R.R. Roberts? Waa there not a representative from Memorial University of Nsioundland - well not a representative but a professor . from: Me1110rial Univesity of Newfoundland? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the question, part (2): If so, who conducted the enquiry? It was Mr. Roberts who conducted the enquiry. MR, BICKMAN: Oh! MR. CROSBIE: That is clever. That is clever. MR, NEARY: If the hon.: .• member for Burin wants more specific information, Mr.

Speaker, I suggest that he put a question on the Order Paper. MR. HICKMAN: Another supplementary question. In that report that was prepared under the chairmanship of Mr. Roberts, was there one name mentioned of one inmate? An.,),ne inmate mentioned? MR.. NEARY: On the report? D. BICKMAN: Anywhere in the report. 640

Karch 0 3lat., 1971 lape no. 154 MR. NEARY: Yes • MR.. HICKMAN: In the report its•lf? MR. NEARY: Yes, MR. HICKMAN: You will stand by that? MR. NEARY: Pardon. Page S MR. HICKMAN: That is correct? There are names mentioned? MR. NEARY: Well, there are various reports. There are statements. There are affidavits taken from,. MR. HICKMAN: I am not talking about the statements. In the report itself, is there the name of one inmate? MR. NEARY: Well the report goes together, you know ••• MR. HICKMAN: No! No! MR. CROSBIE: Stop trying to weasel. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am not trying to weasel out of anything.

Mutton ~hops should know that by now. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question. Could the minister supply the report and delete?from the pages of the report, the names involved? Would not that be quite a simple thing to do so that if there are any names in the report,(the minister says there are names in the evidence, but we are asking for the report) - ML. HICKMAN: There are no names in itl MR.. NEARY: No, Mr. Speaker, if I did that, then that would destroy the whole continuity of the report. It could be misinterpreted. MR, CROSBIE: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

The minister says he is prevented from tabling this report, by n8!Dl!s of child wards to the Province? Can the minister, therefore, erplain why he was on an open-line radio show this morning, freely bandying about the names of child waDil of the Province who had escaped or who had troubles at some of the juvenile penal institutions of the Province? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I pointed out very emphatically,to the moderator of that programme this moming,that it was against the law, against 641

March 31st., 1971 Tape no. 154 Page 6 Mr. Neary. the Child Welfare Act,

Section 501 of this Province, to reveal the identity of any juvenile, any ward of the Province. MR. CROSBIE: Why did the minister participate? If that were so, why did the minister participate? It would not have been ban~ied about, if'the minister had not been ••• _MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, in keeping with the policy of this side of the House,to give the members of the Opposition all the information that we can, I would like to ••••• Yes, table that report. MR. HICKMAN: _MR. NEARY: I would like to answer Question no. 186, Part

(1) Did the minister received from Newfoundland Fishermen Food and Allied Workers Union, a complaint that Mr. Michael Pickett, District Welfare Officer, was vngaged in obtaining signatures of employees of Aylwards (Marystown) Ltd,, with respect to labour dispute involving Motel Mortier? The answer to part (1) is yes, Mr. Speaker.

(2) Has the minister conducted an investitation into the Union's allegations or ordered that an investigation be made? The answer to part

(2) Mr. Speaker is yes. Part (3): If the answer to (2) is yes, will the minister table the results of such investigations? Yes, Mr.Speaker, upon request. Part (4): Did the minister order or approve the actions of Mr. Pickett,in obtaining signatures,of striking employees at Motel Mortier,to a document rescinding their previous decisions to join the Newfoundland Fishermen Food and Allied Workers Union? The answer to that question 642

March 31st. 1971 Tape 155 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: that part of the question, Mr. Speaker. is , "no." Part (5) has Mr. Pickett been disciplined or dismissed for his action in this re•pect? And the answer, Mr. Speaker, is "yes." Any supplementary questions? MR. HICKMAN: Yes, would the hon. minister indicate the nature of the disciplinary action taken? And with respect to Question No. 186 (3) the hon. minister said - he would table the report upon~reqest. Well this is precisely what the question asked. Would the hon. minister lay upon the Table of Rouse? So can we have the report tabled on that. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, some of these questions ·are so vague, that you really do not know how to answer them. I would suggest that if the hon. members want specific information that they word their question in that way, because it says here - MR. CROSBIE: What a genius! MR. NEARY: Will the minister table the results of such investigations? I would be very happy too, Mr. Speaker, if they just ask me to do it. MR. HICK}l'.AN: You can operate now. MR. NEARY: In reply to the hon. the member for Burin, would I table the report of the action that was taken against Mr. Pickett? I would suggest, Mr.

Speaker, that this is an internal matter and I have . no intention of tabling it. MR.. HIOOf.AN: And your are Acting Minister of Labour? MR. CROSBIE: What about diapering it? If you are not going to table it, diaper:.i.~. J MR. NEARY: Mutton jaws is very lippy today, Mr. Speaker. MR.. CROSBIE: The ~linister of Baby Talk might diaper it, if he will not table it. MR. NEARY: Now, Mr.

Speaker, if I may carry on with providing information to members of the opposite side of the House~ The answer to Question No. 72,asked on the Order Paper of Thursday, March 25th. 1 and it was asked by the same hon. ~entleman, the member for St. John's East Extem. Part (1) 643

March 31st. 1971 Tape 155 Pit - 2 MR. NEARY: What is the date on which Exon House was acquired by the Department of Social Services and Rehabilitation? This question, M:-. Speaker, is not applicable as the department has never acquired Exon House o·~her than on leasehold bases.

(2) What is the amount of the annual rent payable to the Anglican Corporation? The answer to that part of the question, Mr. Speaker, is $25~000. As Your Honour well knows. MR. HICKMAN: Per year? HR. NEARY: Twenty-five thousand dollars a year. Part

(3) What is the date of the opening of the Home? I am happy to inform the hon. members, Hr. Speaker, it was March 11th. 1971.

(4) What are the reasons for the delay in opening Exon House? Well, obviously, Mr. Speaker, if we o~ened on March 11th. there is no delay, if there was any delay it was for reasons of economy. The Department of Public Works were carrying on other '.'.\ecessary work in other buildings and so forth, and probably had to take time out~_from their work at Exon House. MR. EARLE: I would like to ask a question of the hon. minister, Mr. Speaker. Can the minister inform the House, if this new home has taken care of all of the unfortunate children that were formerly housed i~ the buildings on Wat'er Street West?

If so, how many have been accommodated? MR. NEARY: I did not quite get the question, Mr. Speaker~ MR. EARLE: Has this new home taken care of all of the children formerly housed in the Building on Water Street West, and how many? MR. NEARY: No, Mr. Speaker, we will still operate the Children's Home on Water Street West. Approximately thirty of the children in the existing home will be moved to Exon House and the rest of the children will be brou~ht in from private homes around the Province • .AN RON. MEMBER: What is the capacity of Exon House? MR. NEARY: The capacity of Exon House will be 120.

This will not completely solve our problem, Mr. Speaker, but it will certainly relieve the pre•aure. There ia a great need for thia type of in•titution in thi• Province. Question No. 300,on the Order Paper of Tue•day, March 30th. aaked by the same hon. gentleman, the member for St. John's East Extern. Part (1) r:i44

March 31st. 1971 Tape 155 MR. NEARY: Has the Government - MR. . CROSBIE: What number is this one? MR. NEARY: This is No. 300. MR. CROSBIE: No, it is not 3001 Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: It is not 300? MR. CROSBIE: 'No, th~t is the question to the Premier. MR. NEARY: On the Order Paper of Tuesday, March 30th. MR. CROSBIE: No. MR. J!ICKMAN: Coming events cast a shad6w before him. PK - 3 MR. CROSBIE: It might be 301. The wrong n1D11ber. Sorry the wrong number. MR. NEARY: Easy now, do not get excited. MR. MURPHY: The number you have dialed. MR. CROSBIE: The minister you have dialed, is not in service. MR.

WARY: Let us try, let us have a recall,~Mr. Speaker, try 308. Part (1) has Government given consideration to the problem of payment of installments on mortgages on behalf of welfare recipients on homes owned by such persons? The answer to that, Mr. Speaker, is that at present mortg -!1ge payments are confined to looking alter the interest char~es on mort~age payments due from homeowners who are recipients of Social Assistanc~.

(2) If so, what decision has been made? The answer to

(2) Mr. Speaker, is that consideration has been given to assisting,with payments on the prinei~·• providing there are countervailing savings to the Provincial Treasuey. But any implementation of such a measure must await a favourable revision of the Terms of the Canada Assistance Plan. MR. MURPHY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister a supple!'!lentary question. Why does not our Department of Social Services follow the rule, more or less practiced in other province, where they do pay the mortgage.

We pay the rent, but we will not assiet the people with mortgage . payments, why does our Government decide against this? MR. NEARY: That is what I indicated in my answer to part (2) of tha question, Sir, if the Government of Canada would change the fonnula of the Canada Assistance Plan and make more financial assistance available to

March 31st. 1971 Tape 155 PI - 4 MR. NEARY: this Province.then we would be very happy to include this in our regulations. \ MR. MURPHY: Mr. Chairman, do not Nova Scotia and New Brunswick and the \ rest of the Provinces come under the same Federal Plan as we do, or eave.they been opted out of the thing in one way or another? MR. NEARY: As my hon. friend knows, Mr. Speaker, the assistance gi,1en to needy people var1~} · in the different provinces.

In Nova Scotia, they probably do pay the principal and the interest, but in Newfoundland we do other things, as my hon. friend knows~in a more generous way than they do in Nova Scotia. MR. MURPHY: There are some differences, but the very important one. the mortgage payment. MR. NEARY: Of course, the type of assistance is not consistent right across. MR. MURPHY: No, but..... the Federal Government is not allowed, wh::ch I do not agree with. MR. EARLE: A supplementary question, Mr.

Speaker, is the answer to the preced£Jig ques .tion that the Federal Government pays fifty per-cent of the ·1nterest, but will not contribute•anything towards repayment of _pri~cipal, ls the answer that the Federal Government contribute fifty per-cen: towards the interest, but will not contribute anything towards the repayment of principal? MR. NEARY: No, that is not the answer, Mr. Speaker. The answer is that we think the taxpayers of the Province are doing everything they possibly can to assist needy people.

The Ministers of Welfare,in the Atlantic Provinces, have recommended a change in the Canada Assistance Plan.based on unemployment and personal per capita income in the Atlantic Region, which means that Newfoundland would benefit more than any other province in Canada. The Government of Canada have not yet agreed to this proposal •..

We will be meeting, the Ministers of Welfare right across Canada will be meetin~ a~ain some time in May and this matter will be raised again. and,if the Govem1nent of Canada will agree to change the Canada Assistance Plan to make more money available to the have-not provinces, then we can do the type of thing that w2s aaked in this question. 646

1'1arcb 31st. 1971 Tape 155 PK - 5 MR. NEARY: Question No. 19, }1r. Speaker, on the OTder Paper of Thursday, March 25th. The question is sort of a loaded question, Mr. Speaker. What action has been taken on the petition of the people of St. George's District, presented 1n the House of Assembly on April 18,;,1970, requesting that the former cottage hospital at Stephenville Crossing be put to use as a ~ome for the aged? MR. CROSBIE: The answer is nothing. Mll. NEARY: I would like to give a very brief reply to that question, Mr. Speaker. MR. CROSBIE: No action. MR. NEARY: It is the present 647

March 31' 1971 Tape 156 page 1. present policy of this department in such matters to consider the adequacy of both the building, its location to the needs of its p1l0spective occupants. Action on the conversion of the former hospital cannot be taken unti: it has been thoroughly investigated from the standpoints of both safety and convenience. MR.CROSBIE: No action - MR.NEARY: Any supplementary questions? MR.CROSBIE: No, no, supplementary answers, there is no action take~~ . MR.MURPHY: How long.is the investigation going to take? MR.CROSBIE: They are tired out there, see what Fr.

Costello said a few days ago;they are tired of waiting for action - MR.NEARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, carrying on with our policy of providing the members on the other side of the House with all the information we can - MR.CROSBIE: Fuddle-duadle. MR.NEARY: This is information day in the House. MR.CROSBIE: Fuddle - duddle day in the House. MR.NEARY: Question No. 73,

(1) Mr. Speaker, in this House we will be darned if we do and we will be double darned if we do no~. For the last three days.Mr. Speaker, members on the opposite side have been criticizing the Government for not being able to get information. Now they are criticizing us for providing them with information. Now, Mr. Speaker, No. 73 on the Order Paper of Thursday March 25. MR.CROSBIE: Caa I read it, is the minister's voice ~etting tired? MR.NEARY: Wonderful. MR.CROSBIE: Has the master plan been adopted by Government to deal with Homes for the A~ed throughout Newfoundland? Can we have the answer now?

MR.NEARY: I would like to thank whiskers for his assistance, so,Mr. Speaker, the answer to (1) ~Yes. 648

March Ji 1971 Tape 156 page 2. MR.NEARY: Now, the hon.member for Burin,would he like to read the second part of the question? MR.HICKMAN: If, would the Minister please table a copy of this report, please, please, - table means lay on the table - MR.NEARY: Mr. Spe~ker, I would like to provide a brief answer for the hon. gentleman. The gene~al,thinking of the Department of Social Services and Rehabilitation,with regard to senior citizens 1was laid down at the Provincial Development Conference on February 2, 1971. MR.CROSBIE: Good, that saves a lot of time.

MR.NEARY: Since the basic it'lea _of the·. plan proposed there was to keep it as flexible as possible,so that it might meet the real needs today and tomorrow of our citizens,Sir, it would be fatal to attempt to crystallize into some sort of a set blueprint,if that is what the hon. member wishes to convey in the use of his word plan. Our plan Sir, is based upon the best possible discoverable examples of meeting the physical security 1 social and even the ego needs of our good citizens in their twilight years. We hope,Mr.

Speaker, to be able to help them forget that other and most cruel ge~eration ' gap that exists.as the senior citizen finds himself isolated.as more and more of his contemporaries pass on. MR.CROSBIE: Would the minister table a copy of that wonderful flexihility? MR.EARLE: Mr. Chairman, a supplementary question - KR,NEARY: Would the hon. member for St. John's West like me to table a razor too Mr. Speaker? .. MR.CROSBIE: Has the hon. minister ever heard this song? Hurray for Steve, Hurray at last, Hurray for Seeve, he is a horse's - MR.EARLE: Mr. Speaker, I wish to ask a supplementary question?

A su~plementary question has to do with the flexibility which the miftister mentions. Has the flexibility of this plan anything to do directly with timing and could there be any ulterior 1110tive so that it may be timed to a very appropriate time1 649

March 31 1971 Tape 156· page 3. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the flexibility ce.rtainly. has nothing to do with the hon. member's brain,I can assure you that. MR.° EARLE: I thou~ht that. MRT-NBAltJ; The answer I gave to the previous question,Mr. Speaker, tam having copies zeroxed and passed on to the hon. members of the Opposition. Now Mr. Speaker, Question No. 20. This is a beaut, a beautJ (1) yea.

(2) January 1971.

(3) Very happy to comply with the wishes of the members of the opposite side of the House on this part of the quest~on, Mr. Speaker. If additional copies are required ·just get in touch with my office and I would be very happy to provide them. you hear the iatest story that is going around? MR.SPEAKER: Order please! Order. Mr. Speaker, did MR.NEARY: I would love to be able to tell you the story.

Part 4, ~r. Speaker, that a therapeutic control unit be established. That the playing field be made ready. That girls from the Girls Home and Training School share recreational facilities.

(5) The answer to that Mr. Speaker, that full implementation of the recommendations of the McGrath report will proceed on a critical path established by a special committee of the Department of Social Work and the psychology department of Memorial University,who have generously undertaken:the responsibility of acting in a staff capacity, in the matter of the operation of the Boys and Girls Training Home. Mr. Speaker, I am afraid I am going to have to tell you the story about the - MR.SPEAKER: Order. MR.NEARY: You see, Mr.

Speaker, there was a skunk in a cave and the leader of the Reform Party and the Leader of the Tory Party and the Leader of the NDP Party were discussing who could stay in the cave longest with the skunk, Well the Leader of the Opposition went in and he stayed five minutes and he came out. Then the Leader of the NDB went in,Mr. Speaker, and he stayed 650

· March 31 1971 Tape 156 lage 4. for ten minutes and he came out, but the Leader of the Reform Party went in and the skunk came out. Now, Mr. Speaker, if I may carry on giving the hon. members information, ~ .. ;- Speaker, I 'liope that we will never hear a peep out of members or. the oppositt side ot the House again about not providing information. Question No. 13, on the 6rder Paper of Thursday March 25, asked aga~n by I think the, one of the three stooges, the hon. member for St. John's East Extern - MR. MURPHY.: Mr. Speaker, when a Minister refers to someone as a stooge now, is that proper language.

Quite frankly, I would like a ruling on i~. MR.SPEAU'ltl Order. Members on both sides of the House have been referring to each other by name other than hon. members There have been some personal remarks back and forth the floor,of the appearance.of members, the way they wear their hair, either on their head or on their face,and this is not all in order at all. As to the last point.I do not see anythin~ wrong with it. He sa~d 1"three stooges~,and I do not know who they are. MR.NEARY: Mr.$peaker, unfortunately Mao is not in his seat at the mement. But anyway Mr.

Speaker, the answer to (1) how many breakouts, Mr. s,eaker, I have to violently protest against this word•breakout' as far as the Girls and Boys Training Homes are concerned. I think they should be referred to as runaways.- How many breakouts,the hon. gentleman says, have occurred at each of the Boys and Girls Homes and Training Schools during the past five years?· 651

March 31st, 1971 MR. NEARY: Tape 157 The answer to part (1) of the question is 485 in the past five years. MR. CROSBIE: 485 breakouts?:. MR. NEARY: 485 runaways, 485 boys and girls left without permission. MR. MURPHY: They had to break out before they ran away. MR. NEARY: No, left without permission. MR. CROSBIE: One every five days for the last five years. JM - 1 MR. NEARY: N~w, Mr. Speaker, part (2) of the question, "In each instance give the dates, school affected, number of boys or girls involved w~o broke out and number returned. MR. CROSBIE: Please table that, 485 of them. MR. NEARY: Again, Mr.

Speaker, - MR. CROSBIE: Would the Minister show his great breadth of spirit by tabling that? MR. NEARY: I would be very happy to table it, Mr. Speaker, if the page would take it and get it zeroxed and pass it on to the hon. gentleman. MR. EARLE: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Why in these 485 breakouts which occurred in the last five years, runaways I am sorry, not breakouts runaways, did the hon. Minister who assumed that portfolio feel that it was necessary for him to give publicity to these breakouts

whereas former Ministers did not think it at all desirable or necessary? MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the only way I can answer that question is that there were a lot of things that former Ministers did not do in that department and I have been successful in breaking down some of the barriers that existed and I intend to provide - MR. HICICMAH: You mean the barriers of that cage where you had the girls · locked in the night of the fire, is that the barrier you are talking about? MR. EARl.E: Personal publicity for the Minister. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, there was a dome around the department and I managed to break down some of the barriers and I think that we are now getting information out to the public because,after all, Sir, it is the public who provide us with the resources to run that department,antl I think they have a right to know what is going on, Mr. Speaker. 632

March 31st, 1971 Tape 157 JM - 2 MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, when the Minister has broken down the dome would he check into this matter of a woman who has only gotten $42.00 since December 1st, a widow who- is not allowed to work, I will not give h~r name because we do not want to do that? Would the Miriister,if I pass him this note,look into this,if he is breaking down the dome? There are still an awful lot of complaints about that dome. MR. NEARY: I would be glad to look into any request that comes to ~y office, Mr. Speaker. MR. STARKES: Mr.

Speaker, I have the answer to question 183,asked by the hon. member for Fortune Bay. "How much was spent during 1970 in imi,roving the road from the Badger-Buchans Highway to Millertown Junction?'' The answer, Mr. Speaker, is that $5,000. was allocated for minor upgrading and $5,000. was spent. Question 182,asked by the hon. member for Fortune Bay,to ask the hon. Minister to lay upon the Table of the House the following information: (1) "At the time of their going out of business in October 1970 were all uncompleted contracts between Government and Lincoln Construction Co.

Ltd. bonded?" The answen is that all highways contracts were bonded. (2) "For all those under bond, has the bonding company in each case assumed the obligation to complete the contract?" The answer is yes. The answer to question 184 MR. RICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a supplementary que~tion. Would the hon. Minister indicate to the House the type of bond that was enforced in respect to the operations of Lincoln? Was it a labour and material bond or was it a performance bond? MR. STARKES : Mr.

Speaker, they were the type of bonds that caused the bonding company to be under obligation to complete the contract. MR. RICKMAN: Performance, was it? MR. STARKES: I understand that is the import of the question,and it is known as a performance bond. MR. RICKMAN: In other words, Mr. Speaker, it was a perfol"lll&nce bond not a labour and material bond. 653

March 31st, 1971 Tape 157 JM - 3 MR. STARKES: That is correct. Question 184 1 asked by the hon. member for Fortune Bay, ''What was the amount owed to McNamar~ Construction Company L~~- by the Department for highway construction,as at 31 December 1970?" The answer is $757,182.16.

The answer to question 265,asked by the hon. member for Bur:t.n,is in four parts, the answer to (1) is yes, (2) is upgrading started,last year, (3) is no, this is in connection with - the question is "Has the Minister been requested to investigate the probability of pollution to the water supply of the Town of Burin should a new highway be built from the Fox Cove - Mortier area to Long Cove, Burin?" The answer is no but, Mr. Speaker, I would like to elaborate a little on this. They protested to the Department of Highways the fact that the building of the road may contaminate their water supply.

They also brought this matter to the attention of the Clean Air, Water and Soil Authority and the answer to (4) is that investigations of such matters are done by the Clean Air, Water and Soil Authorities. MR. HICKMAN: Well, a supplemental question, Mr. Speaker. The question was will the Minister lay upon the Table of the House the result of such investigation with respect to the water supply of the town of Buri~? MR. STARKES: Mr. Speaker, I do not have the results of such investigation.

As I understand it ,.at this moment the Clean Air, Water and Soil Authority has not made a definite reply,and I think they are meeting shortly and they will doubtless report to the Minister and we will receive a copy in due course. MR. MURPHY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Are we to gather then that,if the Highroads Department are polluting areas of the Province that they do not consult with the Clean Air, Water and Soil Authority for advice on this? MR. STARKES: No, Mr. Speaker, you are n~t to assume that. MR. HICKMAN: Would the hon.

Minister permit a further supplementary question more by way of explanation? In the answer to 265(2), "If the answer to 1 is ~es" what action has been taken," upgrading has started, is this House 654

March 31st, 1971 Tape 157 JM - 4 MR. HICKMAN: entitled to assume now that the upgrading and paving of the road le1.ding from Fox Cove and Mortier through Port au Bras and Bull's Cove will take place? This is the route you will follow. MR. STARKES: Question 265(1), Mr. Speaker., "Has the Minister received requests or representations from the Burin Town Council and residents of the Burin Peninsula to have the existing highway leading from Fox Cove and Mortier t~rough Port au Bras and Bull's Cove to the municipality of Burin upgraded and paved?

The answer is yes and (2) "If the answer to 1 is "yes" what action has been taken by Government in this respect?" In this respect I wish to inform the House that upgrading started last year and we hope to continue in 1971. MR. HICKMAN: But you are not answering the question. MR. STARKES: I am answering the question, Mr. Speaker, as far as I am concerned,as well as I can answer it. MR. HICKMAN: I am not suggesting the hon.

Minister is trying to avoid the answer to the question but what I want to know is that now that the upgrading has started,will it continue until that road, the road referred to in 265, the present route,is upgraded and paved in its entirety,from Fox Cove and Mortier through Port au Bras and Bull's Cove? MR. STARKES: I would say,as an opinion, Mr. Spe~ker, yes. This does not mean it will continue night and day, winter and summer.

It will not be continued on a twenty-four hour day basis, seven days a week, four weeks a month and twelve months in a year but it will continue as weather conditions permit and as our finances permit,and it is our intention to do further upgrading this year with hope to eventually pave that road. MR. HICKMAN: I congratulate the hon. Minister but what I want to establish and I believe I know the answer, I think you have made this decision,that a decision has been made by the hon. Minister,by Government acting on the hon.

Minister's recommendation,that the route that will be followed, you are doing a good job in starting on your upgrading and I commend the hon. Minister for it, that the route that will be followed is Fox Cove,through Mortier, Port au Bras and Bull's Cove, the present route. 655

March 31st, 1971 Tape 157 JM - 5 MR.. STARKES: Mr. Speaker, this cQuld go on forever. I already said that we are upgrading that road in question and that we have done considerable upgrading, we have even been working on it through the winter - MR. BICKMAN: I know. MR. STARKES: Through this win.ter .-,- 656

March 31, 1971, Tape 158, Page 1 -- apb MR. STARKES: And we hope to continue upgrading that road through the present summer, with a view to bringing it up to sufficient standard to be able to pave it. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, if the minister would yield the floor for a moment, I would like to move that the House at its rising at six o'clock to~ight adjourn until eight o'clock~ the House return at eight o'clock this evening_ Seconded by the hon. member for St. John's Centre. MR. SPEAKER: The motion, may I hear it again, I did not get the exact ••••• MR.

CROSBIE: The House at its rising at six o'clock adjourn until eight o'clock this evening. As you know Mr. Speaker, on Wednesdays we automatically adjourn at six until tomorrow afternoon, unless a motion is put. MR. MURPHY: In speaking to the motion Sir, I support it quite heartedly, because, I think 6veryone is aware that the Opposition has again been squeezed out of bringing in any private business, due to the longevity of the answers of the hon.,ministers opposite.

We maintain that it was a put-up :ob, and for that reason would like 1 if possible, to have a couple of hours this evening to bring in a few private members'motions. MR. SPEAKER: Does any other hon. meinber wish to comment before •• • ••• MR. HICKMAN: I would like to speak in support of that motion,Mr. Speaker. This is probably the most outrageous display, next to closure,that we saw yesterday, that we have witnessed and that hon. members have witnessed in this Bouse, certainly in the five years that I have been a member.

We ~ad today in the galleries,for instance, students from - who came all the way from Upper Island Cove to see this House in action. They probably went away, they had to go away from this House with a feeling of absolute disgust for the way that the hon. members, and particularly members on this side of the House,have been treated today. This is silly nonsense. Absolute, unadulterated,silly nonsense that we have seen emanating from the other side of the House today. An absolute violent, vicious attempt to stifle debate. Yesterday they succeeded ln doing it with closure, today it is going to be seizure.

Whatever it is,Mr. Speaker, the Opposition are not going to get a chance~so hon. members on the ot~er side think. 657

March 31, 19711 Tape 158, Page 2 -- apb The Opposition will not get a chance to debate in this House,if they have anything to do with it. We will debate, and we are not going to be stifled by this type of nonsense that we have seen. MR. SPF.AKER: Is the House ready for the question? · All those in favour "aye," contrary "nay," SOME HON. MEMBERS: Divide. MR. SPEAKER: Call in the members; SOME ij.ON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible) MR. SPF.AKER : Order please! All those in favour of the motion please rise; SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible) MR. SPF.AKER: There should be absolute silence when the House is being counted. PLease.

The hon. Leader of the Opposition; Mr. Marshall; Mr. Ccllins; Mr. Earle; Mr. Hickman; Mr. Crosbie; Mr. Myrden. MR. SPEAKER: Those against please rose: The hon. the Premier; the hon the President of the Council; the hon. Minister of Highways, the hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs; Mr. Smallwood; Mr. Hodder; Mr. Strickland; the hon. the Minister of Public Works; the hon. the Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources; the hon. Minister of ComDDJnity and Social Development; the Hon. Minister of Provincial Affairs; the Hon. Minister of Social Services and Rehabilitation; Mr. Canning; Mr. Barbour; The hon. Mr.

Bill; the hon. Minister of Supply and Services; Mr. Wornell. MR. SPEAKER: I declare the motion lost. On 1110tion, the House,at its rising do adjourn until tomorrow Thursday at 3:00 p.m. 658