Manitoba Hansard — 24 April 2014 (Sitting 48B, 40th Legislature, 3rd Session)

40-3-48b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVI No. 48B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, April 24, 2014 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel Ind. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

2229 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, April 24, 2014 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 56–The Vital Statistics Amendment Act Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Tourism, Culture, Heritage, Sport and Consumer Protection): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Ms. Howard), that Bill 56, The Vital Statistics Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les statistiques de l'état civil, be now read for the first time. Motion presented. Mr. Lemieux: Mr. Speaker, The proposed amend- ments remove transsexual surgery as a mandatory step for transgender individuals to change their sex designation. The proposed amendments to The Vital Statistics Act address the needs of transgender individuals in Manitoba, harmonize with the identity management standards of other provincial and national identity management organizations and reflect the evolutionary nature of human rights. Mr.

Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? Bill 62–The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Contracts for Distance Communication Services) Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Tourism, Culture, Heritage, Sport and Consumer Protection): I move, seconded by the Minister of Jobs and the Economy (Ms. Oswald), that Bill 62, The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Contracts for Distance Communication Services); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la protection du consommateur (contrats de services de communication à distance), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Lemieux: This bill expands the application of the cellphone contract provisions in The Consumer Protection Act to other types of distance communication services such as cable television, satellite television, satellite radio, phone service, Internet and home alarms. Mr. Speaker, these amendments act on the concerns of Manitobans about misleading and un- clear special offers for these services that can lead to hidden surprises on their bills when the promotional period is over.

We believe Manitoba families have the right to clear, upfront information to understand the full cost of these services before they sign up, and this legislation will achieve just that. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: S eeing none, we'll move on to petitions. Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Effects on Manitoba Economy Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Good afternoon. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background for this petition is as follows:

(1) The Premier of Manitoba is on record of calling the idea of a hike in the PST ridiculous.

(2) Economists calculate that the PST hike has cost the average family $437 more in taxes after only six months.

(3) Seventy-five per cent of small businesses in Manitoba agree that provincial taxes are discouraging them from growing their businesses.

(4) The Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association estimates that a 1 per cent increase in the PST will result in a loss to the economy of $42 million and threaten s hundreds of jobs in that sector.

(5) Partly due to the PST, overall taxes on new investment in Manitoba recently stood at 26.3 per cent

whereas in Alberta rate was 16.2 per cent and the Ontario rate was 17.9 per cent, according to the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce.

2230 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014

(6) The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce are concerned that the PST hike will make an already uncompetitive tax frame rate even more attractive to job creators in the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge provincial government to r eserve– reverse the job-killing PST increase.

(2) To urge the provincial government to restore the right of Manitobans to reject or approve any increases to the PST through a referendum. This petition is s ubmitted on behalf of K. Hennesey, E. Brennan, I. M ullan and many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Beausejour District Hospital– Weekend and Holiday Physician Availability Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The Beausejour District Hospital is a 30 -bed, acute-care facility that serves the communities of Beausejour and Brokenhead.

(2) The hospital and the primary-care centre have had no doctor available on weekends and holidays for many months, jeopardizing the heal th and livelihoods of those in the northeast region of the Interlake-Eastern Regional Health Authority.

(3) During the 2011 election, the provincial government promised to provide every Manitoban with access to a family doctor by 2015.

(4) This promise is far from being realized, and Manitobans are witnessing many emergency rooms limiting services or closing temporarily, w ith the majority of these reductions taking place in rural Manitoba.

(5) According to the Health Council of Canada, only 25 per cent of doctors in Manitoba reported that their patients had access to care on evenings and weekends. We petition the Legislativ e Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Health to ensure that the Beausejour District Hospital and primary -care centre have a primary-care physician available on weekends and holidays to better provide area residents with this essential service. This petition is signed by D. Mazur, S. Mazur, S. Martin and many more fine Manitobans, Mr. Speaker.

Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Effects on Manitoba Economy Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: The Premier of Manitoba is on record calling the idea of a hike in the PST ridiculous. Economists calculate that the PST hike has cost the average family $437 more in taxes after only six months. Seventy-five per cent of small businesses in Manitoba agree that provincial taxes are dis - couraging them from growing their businesses.

The Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association estimates that a 1 per cent increase in the PST will result in a loss to the economy of $42 million and threaten hundreds of jobs in that sector. Partly due to the PST, overall taxes on new investment in Manitoba recently stood at 26.3 per cent

whereas the Alberta rate w as 16.2 per cent and the Ontario rate was 17.9 per cent, according to the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce. The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce are concerned that the PST hike will make an already uncompetitive tax framework even more unattractive to job creators in the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to reverse the job-killing PST increase. To urge the provincial government to restore the right of Manitobans to reject or approve any increases to the PST through a referendum.

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2231 And this petition is signed by J.W. Pauls, B. Wiens, R. Wiens and many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: Any further introduction of petitions? Seeing none, we'll move on to committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Kevin Chief (Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities ): I rise today to table the Children and Youth Opportunities Supplementary Information for Legislative Review 2014- 15 Departmental Expenditure Estimates. Hon.

Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Fami ly Services): I'm very proud to table the Manitoba Family Services Supplementary Information for Legislative Review, the 2014 -2015 Expenditure Estimates. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Mineral Resources): I'd like to table the Mineral Resources Supplementary Information for Legislative Review for the year 2014 to 2015. Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? * (13:40) Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I have a number of guests to introduce to the House.

I'd like to draw the attention to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today Bishop Rueben Ngozo of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Cameroon. Accompanying the bishop is Reverend Richard Sauer of the St. Mark's Lutheran Church in Winnipeg and David Sauer, president of the Winnipeg Labour Council, all of whom are the guests of the honourable Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan). And also, in the public gallery we have with us this afternoon from Louis Riel Arts and Technology Centre 18 adult education students under the direction of Ms. Lucille Miller.

This group is located in the constituency of the honourable First Minister. On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. And also seated in the public gallery, from Landmark Collegiate we have 30 grade 9 students under the direction of Chelsea Hoffman. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Tourism, Culture, Sport and C onsumer Protection. Welcome, to our guests this afternoon as well. And also in the public gallery, from John G. Stewart School we have four grade 9 students under the direction of Ms. Jenn Rosen.

This group is located in the constituency of the honoura ble member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson). On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon as well. ORAL QUESTIONS Manitoba Jockey Club Cost of Lawsuit Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, as if we needed another example of why bullying costs, Mr. Speaker, we have it again with the results of this, made public yesterday, so- called negotiation between the Jockey Club and the government of Manitoba.

The previous Finance minister and his colleagues, in their attempt to intimidate the horse racing industry into submission, failed miserably. And that minister, in fact, was quoted as saying: I'll win. I'm a politician. Well, no one wins through a kind of process that's as disrespectful as this one was. No one wins. The minister lost. His colleagues lost. Perhaps some lawyers were employed in the process, but the taxpayers of Manitoba lost. Five hundred people who depend on the horse racing industry were put into a fearful position.

Their families were threatene d by the actions of the government for a considerable period of time. Frankly, Mr. Speaker, Manitobans were the losers for this. I ask the government to respond, finally, with some openness and tell the people of Manitoba what the costs, in terms of the legal fees of this ridiculous and embarrassing process, were to Manitoba tax- payers. Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Minister of Finance): We are pleased to be able to conclude a negotiated settlement with the Jockey Club that will see the sustainability of the hor se racing industry and will see that industry sustainable in a way that diminishes the public subsidy over time. This is a deal that will make sure that industry can be sustained. It also provides a bridge while they work with their new partners, Peguis, to ensure that that is sustained.

2232 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 It's always regrettable when there has to be court proceedings, but government will defend itself when its decisions are challenged in court, as we did here. The cost of defending the government's decisions in this case i s about $160,000, the majority of that for in-house government lawyers. Election Strategy Mr. Pallister: That's a laughable response, Mr. Speaker. It wasn't the government that was put in a position to defend itself.

It was the people at the Jockey Club and the entire horse racing industry that were put in a position of having to defend themselves against the unilateral, dictatorial approach the government took on this issue. The government bullies the Jockey Club. They try to shut down horse racing. The Jockey Club, understandably, pushes back. The government then settles. The question is: Why would they settle? Perhaps bad PR for the government, Mr. Speaker. That's what many are speculating.

Lawsuits–lawsuits made necessary by the unprofessional, dictatorial approach that this govern- ment took when they could have simply been frank and straightforward at the table in the negotiation as Manitobans would have preferred them to do. I've got to ask the government, and I'd like the Premier (Mr. Selinger) to respond to this honestly: Is this simply pre -election damage control by the government? Ms.

Howard: There are many, many inaccuracies in that question, as we have come to expect from the Leader of the Opposition, and I'm going to give him an opportunity to correct one of the inaccuracies that his party put on the record yesterday. Yesterday they made a charge that inflation is the highest in the country since July. That has been demonstrated to be false, and I'm happy to table that information for the members opposite. In fact, since July 2013 Manitoba's inflation rate has increased by about 1 per cent, one of the lowest in the country and lower than the Canadian average.

So I just want to be clear with the members opposite that it is important for them to be accurate when they bring information into this House and I want them to have that accurate information. On the question that the member asked, we have always said that we wanted a sustainable horse racing industry. We want that sustainability to come at a diminishing cost to the public. That is what this settlement achieves. Legal Proceedings Government Response Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): And the minister can take up her case with StatsCan.

I know they don't like Sta tistics Canada, but the Statistics Canada's report's clear: highest increase in inflation of any Canadian province since the PST was introduced. You know, this is the thing with this government. They try to intimidate, and it just simply isn't working. We're not intimidated. Manitobans aren't intimidated, but why should Manitobans be forced to go to court? Why should the AMM be forced to go to court to defend its interests against government bullying? Why should the Whiteshell Cottagers Association be fo rced to go to court? Is it the government that's on the defence?

Hardly, it's Manitobans. Why should the Jockey Club have been forced to go to court? Why should farmers who were promised by a minister opposite that they would have multi-year compensation be forced to go to court? Why should First Nations have to go to court? Why? Mr. Speaker, is it because this government is dictatorial in its approach and unprofessional? I ask the government to respond. Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Minister of Finance): I would ask that the member opposite at least do us the courtesy of looking at the information that's provided to him before he continues to repeat the inaccuracies that he's put on the record, but perhaps that is too much to ask, that he would take a second and l ook at actual information before he makes a response. I do, though, want to say to the member opposite, we on this side of the House take the fight against bullying very seriously.

And to hear him cheapen that fight in the way that he has just had and try to use it in a political discussion –which we can have a debate about the Jockey Club and what's transpired there. But I want to be very clear. When it came time to stand with kids who are fighting against bullying, when it came time to stand for their rights to fight against bullying in their schools, we stood with them. The members opposite sat on their hands and abandoned them. There's no question in this House who stands against bullying.

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2233 Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. EIA Housing Allowance Request to Implement Raise Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Standing with Manitoba's children and their families, Mr. Speaker, is what we do by nature, not just as a public relations stunt. Now, the benefits to the Jockey Club of the government's settlement are immediate and they are guaranteed. The benefits to the political party that negotiated the settlement, they'd hope are immediate, but they are certainly not guaranteed.

But there's another group in this province that waits for fair treatment and that's the group that is forced to live on social allowance. Now, we have been saying since the outset that the rental allowance increase to 75 per cent of median market rent, as espoused by a great number of Manitoba individuals and groups, should not be phased in. It should be done immediately. It should be raised now. Now, this government has half a billion dollars of additional revenue each year in broken -promise tax and fee hikes. Prom ises don't feed Manitoba's hungry children.

I ask the government today to agree with our position and immediately increase the allowance for Manitoba's most vulnerable citizens. Do not defer and delay something that is necessary today. Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I hope I didn't just hear the member opposite call those kids who came to committee last year to talk about the pain of bullying in their lives, to talk about the work that they are doing to combat it–we sat in that r oom and we heard stories of kids who had contemplated suicide because of pain of bullying.

I hope I didn't just hear the member opposite claim that that was nothing more than a PR stunt. Because, of course, that's exactly what we heard one of their federal candidates claim Evan Wiens did in Steinbach when he stood up to bullies. That is the position of the members opposite. Their position is not to stand with all families and children. They've demonstrated that very clearly. In this budget in this year fam ilies who are in need will see increased assistance so they can get better places to live. That is the budget that members opposite voted against.

In this year we will see for the 14th time an increase to the minimum wage so working families can get a bett er deal. That is a measure that the members opposite have never supported and will continue to not support. * (13:50) We continue to make progress for all Manitobans and we stand with all Manitobans, unlike the members opposite who claim that kids who stand against bullying are doing nothing more but engaging in PR. Mr. Pallister: No, Mr.

Speaker, I'm claiming that the 3 7–no, 36 NDP MLAs in this House are in a public relations campaign both with the settlement with the Jockey Club and in their mishandling of Bill 18. I stand with–and we stand with the children and families in this province. And I've personally spoken to Evan Wiens and I supported Evan in his time of need, unlike many of these people opposite, and I'll continue to do that. When it comes to Manitoba's most vulnerable citizens, this government had a choice and it made that choice.

It said, you're vulnerable and you're going to stay vulnerable, and we're going to phase in our kindness to you, our support for you. It's going to happen later. Our vote tax to us, mind you, that'll happen now. When it comes to Manitoba's most vulnerable citizens, it's clear where this government lies. It's clear where its priorities are. The need is now. It is not in four years. Children are in poverty now. They need the help now. NDP promises do not cut it.

I ask the government again, with all sincerity, I ask the government again to do the right thing and raise the rental allowance now, not in four years' time. Ms. Howard: I'm glad the member opposite has taken the time to talk to Evan Wiens. I hope he learned something. But I'll tell you what, Mr. Speaker, action matters. And it's nice that he talked to him. It would be even nicer–[interjection] I'm glad that he talked to him. It would be even nicer if he stood up for his right to sit with other kids in his class in his school and talk to them and form a gay -straight allian ce.

That is something they very clearly voted against. In this budget EIA rates will increase. That is a budget that those members voted against. It's very clear where they stand on that. In this year the

2234 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 minimum wage will go up. That will help working families. And we will continue, as we did when we first came into office, to end the clawback of the National Child Benefit, a policy that members opposite put in place that took millions of dollars out of the hands of families who needed it. First Nations Communities Manitoba Hydro Consultations Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): First Nations communities like NCN across the province have been strong- armed in working with NDP hydro- development-based and inflated promises and profits and prosperous futures.

Wuskwatim is a perfect example of the NDP. What they promised to NCN was profits and losses of $24 million this past year alone. Will the minister commit to exercising due diligence and listen to NFAT before spending more on this unproven, unpredicted, $30-billion project? Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): I wonder if the member from Lakeside would commit to help his leader tell the truth. Mr. Speaker, yesterday– Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

The honourable Minister of Mineral Resources, I know, is aware of the rules in the House with respect to making reference and the use of unparliamentary language in reference to a particular member of the Assembly. So I'm going to caution the honourable minister, please make sure that we keep our language parliamentary and that I'm asking the honourable minister to make sure that he adheres to that. Mr. Struthers: Yesterday the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Pallister) quite incorrectly said that we have the highest hydro rate increases of any Canadian province last year. That is absolutely incorrect.

I wonder if the Leader of the Opposition would care to stand in the House today and retract what he said yesterday and apologize for Manitobans, because, very clearly, SaskPower last y ear increased their rates by 5 per cent. Manitoba's rate increase was much lower than 5 per cent. In the coming years SaskPower is going to increase by 5 and a half per cent, 5 per cent and 5 per cent. Again, that's vastly– Mr. Speaker: The honourable minister's time has elapsed. Mr. Eichler: This minister's the one that had eight– three 8 per cent increases in the last year alone. He can't get it right, obviously.

The stakes are simply too high to not get it right. First Nation groups are incurring losses. Their share of Manitoba Hydro projects last year lost $24 million on Wuskwatim alone. This NDP government does not exercise caution. We've been asking for months for them to listen to the experts and let the NFAT do its job. Will this governmen t commit to respect the process and, before they go ahead with the $30-billion projects, let the committee do its work, listen to the experts, listen to all those people that are–been asked to do their job, yes or no? Mr. Struthers: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the lesson out of that question is that maybe the member for Lakeside should stand with his Leader of the Opposition and apologize together to the people of Manitoba because now they both have it wrong. There was not a 23 per cent increase like the members opposite, including the official opposition leader, said. He's making it up. It was half of that. And, Mr. Speaker, do they want us to do like they did in Ontario, which had a 42 per cent increase over the next number of years? Would they rather have us do what BC is doing in terms of a 9 per cent increase?

Our rate increases are kept low because we sell into the export markets, something the Leader of the Opposition says he won't do. That would put rates through the roof in Manitoba. The biggest threat to Manitoba families and their hydro rates is the person sitting right across the [inaudible] from us. Mr. Eichler: Perhaps the minister should look in the mirror. Twenty -four million dollars in losses, that's not a small significant amount of money. I ask the minister.

On this side of the House we support reasoned hydro development, which is in the best interest of the real owners of Manitoba Hydro; that's Manitobans, not 36 members on the other side. They seem to think they're the only ones with the real answers. Mr. Speaker, it's time to listen–it's time to listen– learn and educate about really is what going on with

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2235 Manitoba Hydro. Why won't this government do that? Mr. Struthers: What an example of backpedalling, Mr. Speaker. That member opposite an d his leader have said over and over in this House to put the brakes on the development. Put the brakes on, cancel hydro development, they said it over and over. I will listen not to members opposite.

I'll listen to First Nations leadership in TCN who sa id, and I quote: The Keeyask provides an opportunity for us to join the mainstream Manitoba economy to build a future of hope that will sustain and provide for all citizens of the Tataskweyak Cree Nation. I'll believe a First Nation leader any time before the Leader of the Opposition. Red River College Financial Management Concerns Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, this new Minister of Education stood in this House and proudly stated how he brought an arm of the government, COPSE, his buffer zone, into his department.

Now we find that our largest college is experiencing a $2- million deficit and has lost 12 senior officials in the past three years. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask this new minister: What's going on? Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and Advanced Learning): Mr. Speaker, I don't have enough time to explain to the new critic what's going on, but our plan focuses on providing a quality education for our young people so that they can go on and get a good job and live right her e in Manitoba.

Red River College offers students high- quality education and turns out high- quality graduates who go on and get the good jobs that we want. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, we expect our colleges and our universities to operate in an open, transparent and accountable matter. The public thinks that; I quite agree, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Ewasko: I guess it 's just that bad if he doesn't have the time, Mr. Speaker. * (14:00) This is a minister who has no problem taking the credit, Mr. Speaker, but c an't seem to take the criticism or doesn't want to be accountable when there's blame to hold onto.

I know $2 million seems like a spit in the ocean to this minister, based on his mishandling of the new 5- and-a-half-million-dollar Manitoba student online program, which, again, is not working and it was supposed to launch in June 2011. But within Education, $2 million could go a long way. Again, Manitobans can't trust or they can't even afford this minister's inability to lead this very important department. Mr. Allum: Well, Mr. Speaker, and, of course, it is – we do require our post -secondary institutions to be accountable.

The public requires and wants us to make sure that they're operating in a responsible financial manner, and that's exactly what we're trying to do. All organizations go through in- year reviews in order to ensure that they're on track for their budget and for year -end. That's precisely, in this case, what Red River College was doing last week when it talked about that. We expect them to be on budget, and we'll hold them to that standard. Mr. Ewasko: It's as if we rehearsed this question - and-answer period.

Instead of taking responsibility and seeking solutions, this new minister has put all of the blame on Red River College board. Not only that, but he recently said, and I quote: We expect them to follow the letter of the law. We expect them to balance the budget. Considering that he represents a government that raised the PST illegally and has failed to balance the budget, my question for the new minister is this: Given his new -found support for following the law and balancing budgets, does he intend to sit the Premier (Mr.

Selinger) down for a remedial lesson on the law and balanced budgets, or is he speaking out of both sides of his mouth? Mr. Allum: Well, Mr. Speaker, the only person speaking out of both sides of his mouth is the member opposite, who had a chance to vote for a budget that supported schools, that supported colleges, that supported universities, that makes sure that kids are positioned to get a quality education and go on and get a good job here and live in Manitoba. The only hypocrisy in the Legislature today is the member opposite standing up and pretending he has a plan for Education. Well, the only plan they

2236 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 have is to cut $500 million from the budget, $50 million from the Education budget. The only threat to a quality education in this House is the Leader of the Opposition and his critic. Mr. Speaker: I want to caution the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet and the honourable Minister of Education. You're coming very close to the line with respect to unparliamentary language and the choice of the words that you have both used. So I'm offering a caution here to both of you, and we can talk about this after question period if you wish.

But I just want to offer that caution right now, and to other members at this point. We have a lot of folks here, members of the public who are with us this afternoon. I'm sure we want to leave a good impression with all the folks that are visiting us and for folks that may be watching. And so I'm asking for your co-operation, both keep the level down and to make sure that our language is kept within the parliamentary bounds and rules that we have in place. Now, the honourable member for Morris. Cottage Fee Increases Park Services Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): Mr.

Speaker, last night I had the opportunity to attend the Whiteshell cottage association's AGM. There were an estimated 600-plus cottagers –or, as the NDP government likes to call them, freeloaders –in attendance. To say that these taxpayers disagreed with the 250 per cent to 750 per cent increases in their service fees and increase–and rents would be a bit of an understatement. Mr. Speaker, this government enjoys their L otto 6/49 fairy tale of cottage McMansions. I'm curious, Mr.

Speaker: If cottagers are failing to pay for their true assessed rental value, which is the rationale for these massive hikes, then why is this minister selling waterfront cottages on his website for $1,500? Shouldn't they be going for hundreds of thousands? Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Conservation and Water Stewardship): Yes, Mr. Speaker, we want more and more Manitobans to enjoy the great dream of cottaging in Manitoba.

But last night, I can tell you where I was, if everyone wants to get up and tell the House, I was at the Association of Manitoba Municipalities meeting, an organization that has been pressing very hard for fairness when it comes to the fees that cottagers pay in our parks. And perhaps that is because, just looking at the listings today, for example, we see that a cottage worth $345,000 at West Hawk Lake is paying about $800 in fees in the park. But down the road in the – Lac du Bonnet, a cottage that's actually smaller an d assessed at less value is paying $2,400.

That's the kind of unfairness that the members of the opposition are trying to promote, and I say that's really unfortunate. Mr. Martin: I appreciate the minister sharing his whereabouts, though his attendance an d non- attendance at a particular function wasn't the issue. As one cottager spoke last night, he does not have fire, medical, water or sewer services. He's as close to as off the grid as you can get here in this province. Yet at Falcon Lake he will be pay ing $4,800, an increase of 650 per cent, or in NDP lingo, a 650-cent-on-the-dollar tax increase. This minister speaks of equity.

Where is the equity for this cottager? Mr. Mackintosh: Well, the member fails to recognize that if anyone is concerned about the impact of the fee changes in parks, they can appeal the rent with a certified appraisal and we will accept at face value the new amount. Anyone who feels aggrieved by the increases can simply ask and make an arrangement with the department to pay all of that later if –when the cottage is sold. This has all been verified by an outside, independent audit.

I will just, perhaps, conclude that the members opposite corrected me, actually, and if the member wants to retract promoting some false statements in an opinion editorial recently, we'd welcome that. But a cottager in Riding Mountain, in Stephen Harper's park, is paying $5,000. It's $800 at Falcon Lake. But I just found out in committee, confirmed by members, there's only seven months of service in Riding Mountain now. No reduction. Mr. Martin: It is–and it's $4,800 at Falcon Lake. The NDP have publicly stated that these changes are about cost recovery.

Yet his departmental staff have publicly advised that monies would go, quote, into the government cof fers and that parks would, quote, get some of that money back to run the parks. The MLA for Flin Flon has also made the

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2237 observation that a portion of cottage revenues will also be going into non-park services. Why is this minister forcing people like the Cooplands, 78 years old and retired, to not only pay for park services they don't receive but other NDP-funded projects? Why do they have to pay their bills in protest? Mr. Mackintosh: Well, there's been a freeze in park cottage fees for the last 10 year s and the changes are going to be introduced over the next 10 years. That's 20 years. Meanwhile, the value of these park cottages has very significantly increased.

These are sought-after properties. But, you know, last week in Supply the Conservatives we re advocating for a particular Falcon Lake cottager, and it appears from our analysis that that vacation home could be worth, oh, about half a million dollars. But they were concerned that the fees for that vacation home may after 10 years approximate wh at is currently being charged in Riding Mountain park. But that's who the Conservatives are standing with rather than the Manitoba taxpayers who are paying not only toward their own home but towards someone vacation home in a park, Mr. Speaker. That's not fairness.

Business Licences for Organized Crime Legislation Enforcement Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Last week, I asked the Minister of Justice why legislation that would remove driver's licence and taxpayer support from those with outstanding warrants had an enforcement rate of 0.00006 per cent. Yesterday in Estimates, I asked the minister how often legislation announced by this minister in 2009 that would allow the Province to revoke or not issue licences to businesses serving as fronts for gangs had been used. In 2009, they said this was a key platform in getting rid of gangs.

The minister said that in five years, it had never been used, an enforcement rate of 0.0000 per cent. Why is this minister unable to actually use laws that he passes? Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Let me correct the member on his first point. I suppose it depends how you look at it. If the member's goal is to cut people off of social assistance, well, the law didn't do that because that wasn't the intention.

If the goal was to have people on social assistance deal with their warrants and take responsibility for those warrants, it's been 99.997 per cent successful. * (14:10) But with respect to the fight against organized crime, it is a fact that there is no province which has taken on organized crime more completely and more effectively than the province of Manitoba. And I was quite pleased to tell the member yesterday in Supply how successful The Criminal Property Forfeiture Act has been.

The same act, the member stood next to his former leader, Hugh McFadyen, and they said, this law will never do anything to take on organized crime. He's 7 million times wrong, because that's the money we've taken away from organized crime, hitting cr iminals in the wallet where in hurts and stopping their illegal– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Taman Report Recommendations Staffing for Investigation Unit Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Well, in fact, there's been two cases. I think NDP math has hit a new absurdity today. Mr.

Speaker, in April of 2009 the former minister of Justice, the now -member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), demanded that we as an opposition quickly pass The Police Services Act so they could start hiring investigators for a new independent investigation unit. He said it was critically important coming out of the Taman report. That was five years ago. Yesterday the Minister of Justice indicated that not one investigator had yet been hired to s taff that unit. That's a staffing rate of 0.0000 per cent. If it was so critical five years ago, why has nothing happened to hire investigators in that unit? Hon.

Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, certainly, it's interesting to have the member talk about the implementation of The Police Services Act. As members should know, it's been a law that was 80 years old that has been replaced and is now being brought into force. We know that it was very important coming out of the Taman Inquiry that we have independent police boards sitting in every community where there is a municipal police force. Unfortunately, the member for Steinbach and his colleagues introduced

2238 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 an amendment to suggest that those police boards should be optional. Well, they were already optional and, unfortunately, no communities took advantage of having that independent oversight. I'd like the member for Steinbach to tell this House why he opposed that important step in The Police Services Act in continuing to build the confidence of Manitobans in their police services across this province. NDP Management Government Record Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): He's getting good at asking questions and I want him to keep practising.

We've seen today that the horses ran roughshod through the NDP Cabinet and, unfortunately, it cost millions of dollars for taxpayers. We've seen millions of dollars go to an education program, an online site, that's never been started up. Hundreds of cottage owners had to come to protest at a meeting, and this government didn't even have the respect to send a representative. Justice bills have sat there for five years as they've gathered dust on this minister's desk. We've shown that they're bullies, they're bunglers and they're Beauchesners, and that's all they're ever going to be. Why don't you admit that? Hon.

Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, so good of the member for Steinbach to raise the level of debate in this House. Let's talk a little bit about the o pposition approach to public safety. Back in the '90s, they, with great fanfare, said, we're going to institute a gang hotline. And what did that gang hotline do, as the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) knew well? Well, it wasn't hot. It was barely a line. The crowning achievement of the opposition on public safety was to have an answering machine somewhere in some government building.

People would call in with concerns about the increase in gang activity as the Progressive Conservatives did nothing. It would take days, sometimes even weeks for anybody to even acknowledge the person had made the call. That was the complete lack of attention that resulted in the Hells Angels coming to Manitoba, organized crime coming to Manitoba. And in Manitoba now we are taking every step to– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has elapsed. Paramedic Patient Transfers ER Wait Time Fines Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): In Manitoba, not only are Manitobans who are sick experiencing lengthy eme rgency room waits, but paramedics are far too often left waiting to transfer the patients in their care. In April 2011 the Winnipeg Fire Paramedic Service began billing hospitals –fining hospitals for NDP mismanagement and lengthy delays in transferring their ambulance patients. On average, paramedics have been waiting more than 70 minutes a patient, costing taxpayers $117 an hour in fines. Since 2012 the annual amount of fines was roughly $1.5 million. Mr. Speaker, c an the Premier (Mr.

Selinger) assure Manitobans that their public, hard- earned tax dollars are not being used to pay the fines levied for bad NDP management? Hon. Erin Selby (Minister of Health): We've put a number of things in place to try to make our ERs flow more quickly. We know that the re's not one silver bullet that's going to do that, but one of the things we're doing is promising everyone a family doctor by 2015.

We know that sometimes there are people coming to the emergency room who might be better served at a QuickCare clinic or an access centre, by making sure they have a family doctor that can follow that chronic condition and keep them out of the emergency room. So we're trying to provide options for people closer to home.

But at the same time, it's very important that when we have an urgent need that a person needs to be in emergency room, that we're funding emergency rooms, that we've been hiring more doctors and hiring more nurses to make sure that when people need that kind of urgent care we've got the support in place to do that. Mr. Gerrard: The continual payment of fines for bad management instead of improving the management shows that this NDP government doesn't know how to manage health care properly. In 2013 paramedics waited in emergency rooms to transfer patients an average of almost six hours a day.

Since implementing the fine program, this government has made little progress in remedying

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2239 the root cause, reducing ER wait times and ambulatory transfer times. When will this government actually reduce wait times a nd ensure proper transfer times, ensuring the proper functioning of emergency room services instead of using public taxpayer dollars to pay their fines? Ms.

Selby: We know about 50,000 Winnipeggers go into our emergency rooms every year and 75 to 80 per cent of those people go through the emer - gency room are dropped off by a –I'm sorry, I've –I will rephrase that –50,000 arrive in our emergency rooms by ambulance and 75 to 80 per cent of those people are transferred into the paramedic service, into the ER staff within the target time. We know tha t Winnipeg has some of the best response times in North America. If someone in Winnipeg calls 911, they can count on seeing a paramedic there.

They can count on seeing possibly a fire truck with a trained paramedic on it as well. We have a number of people in place for those kind of emergencies. But I think it's really important to also note, Mr. Speaker, as much as we want to keep moving people through the ER and making sure that they get the help they move–they need, we do want to make sure that ambulan ces are off -loading people within our target time. That money is redirected into EMS. Mr. Speaker: The honourable minister's time has elapsed. Mr.

Gerrard: It is astonishing that after 14 years of poor management, public tax dollars continue to be spent on punitive fines instead of on good health care. Surely, Manitobans would be far better served by an effective plan to manage ER wait times. Instead, the Premier (Mr. Selinger) and his govern- ment consider the payment of fines a suitable solution for ma king Manitobans wait in the emer - gency room and delaying ambulances from attending to emergency situations.

I ask: Why does the Premier and the government think it is acceptable to make Manitobans use public taxpayer dollars to pay their fines resulting from NDP mismanagement of the emergency rooms? Ms. Selby: We have triage nurses in our emergency rooms who are trained to make sure that the person who has the most serious need gets seen first. That person may come by ambulance, but that person may come by any other means as well. We know that about 50,000 Winnipeggers arrive by ambulance in our ERs every year and 75 to 80 per cent are seen and moved into the ER within our target time. We want to do better, Mr.

Speaker, absolutely. But I think it's ve ry important to recognize that we have ambulances, that we have fire paramedics, and that if people in Winnipeg call 911, they can be assured that someone's coming for them. Sign Up For Life Website Organ and Tissue Donation Ms. Melanie Wight (Burrows): Yesterday, I was at a great initiative with the Minister of Health where we got to hear two incredibly inspiring speakers. I think we both had a hard time keeping the tears out of our eyes, to be honest. They were amazing. It was an organ donation event, an d we know organ donors save lives.

Can the Minister of Health update the House on the efforts our government is undertaking with Transplant Manitoba to make it easier for people to make their organ donation wishes known? Hon. Erin Selby (Minister of Hea lth): Indeed, we were joined by some very inspiring people, a heart recipient and a kidney donor both there to speak about why this gift is so important. * (14:20) Manitobans are known for their generosity and their kindness, and almost 10,000 people hav e already signed up for life to donate one of their organs. It's a very simple thing to do. It only takes a few minutes.

I would urge everyone in this House and across Manitoba to take the time to sign up but to also speak to your family about your wishes. We know, unfortunately, right now in Manitoba people are six times more likely to need an organ than to donate an organ. It doesn't take a lot of time and you can be a hero. You can change someone's life. You can save someone's life by signing up for life. I've done it. It only takes a few minutes. Join the 10,000 heroes across Manitoba. AMR Planning & Consulting Contract Metis and First Nations Consultations Mr.

Stuart Briese (Agassiz): The minister of Finance–or Family Services recently awarded a

2240 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 contract to AMR Planning & Consulting for $350,000 without tendering. Why was a proper tendering process ignored? Hon. Kerri Irvin -Ross (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, w hen we received the 62 recommendations from Commissioner Hughes, the Phoenix Si nclair inquiry, we needed to take action quickly.

We needed to address the 31 recom - mendations that were not being implemented at the time and review them, to work with our stakeholders, to have a conversation across the province and to evaluate how do we move forward, how do we work with all of our partners and strengthen the child-welfare system to support all of Manitobans' children. Mr. Briese: The minister sat on the report of the Sinclair–Phoenix Sinclair report for over two months. They could have been tendering in that process.

She also goes on to talk about consulting with the stakeholders, and they bypassed the tendering rules and then they also failed to consult with the Metis and First Nation leaders before they awarded that contract. Why did the Minister of Family Services fail to consult with the leadership council under The Child and Family Services Amendment Act? Ms. Irvin -Ross: As we went through the Hughes inquiry, there was opportunity for people to have standing and to share their advice, their recom - mendations for as we move forward.

Commissioner Hughes listened to that advice and he incorporated it into many of his recommendations. Following the tabling of the Hughes inquiry, I outreached to many of the community stakeholders, to the leadership council. I continue to welcome for their support, their information. My door is open. I welcome them at any time. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker: It is time for members' statements. Bill Merritt Ms. Nancy Allan (St. Vital): Today I rise to pay tribute to the life of an incredible Manitoban, musician and dear friend to many, Bill Merritt.

Last month Bill passed away after a long and brave battle with cancer. Bill 's family and frien ds join us in the gallery today: his wife Luci, his children, Lisa and Billy Jr., his grandchildren, siblings and many loved ones. One of Bill 's greatest passions in life was his music. He was a gifted bassist, vocalist and song- writer, leaving behind a timeless catalogue of music. For those who had the pleasure of hearing Bill play, his keen sense of rhythm and harmony was undeniable. He was a brilliant p layer and he developed his own unique style by choosing to play his bass with a pick.

Bill played the way he lived: pure. Bill recorded or played with many local musical legends, including Be Bop Beluga, Mood Jga Jga, Fabulous George and the Zodiacs, Rocki Rolletti and Prairie Dog to name just a few. Each record he made, performance he gave and lyric he wrote has left a lasting mark on Manitoba's music scene. In addition to his own musical endeavors, Bill was devoted to building a vibrant music scene in Manitoba. For 17 years he worked as business manager of the Winnipeg Folk Festival, pouring his heart and soul into creating one of North America 's most renowned musical events.

Bill's artistry extended far beyond his music. He was a passionate humanitarian, co- founding Winnipeg's International Children's Festival in 1983. His leadership brought this magical event to life, giving Manitoba youth a chance to explore their own imagination and love for the arts. Mr. Speaker, Bill was one of a kind and had many friends who loved and admired him. It was because Bill was real, he had a big heart and always put life into perspective. Bill was a rock for his family and I know they miss him dearly. Today we celebrate a life well lived and the incredible legacy Bill leaves behind.

Bill’s passion, strength and love for his family live on in our memory, and his gifts of music and friendship will never be forgotten. Manitoba Curling Club Championships Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, from April 4 th to 6th , the best teams from curling clubs all over Manitoba played in the 2014 Dominion Curling Club provincial champion- ships held at the East St. Paul Curling Club in East St. Paul. Twelve teams on the men's side and 12 teams on the women's side from clubs in Winnipeg and from

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2241 the Central, Eastman, Interlake, Parkland, and Westman areas played for the chance to be named the best teams in the province. While the Dominion may not be the Scotti es or the Brier, this is truly a championship for some of the best club curlers in Manitoba. And, Mr. Speaker, on the men’s side, curling out of the Pembina Curling Club was our very own Deputy Sergeant -at-Arms Ray Gislason , joined by teammates Mark Lowdo n, Ryan Lowdon and Terry Lowdon.

The team played to a 3 -2 record in the round robin, forcing a tiebreaker, with wins over rinks from Dauphin, Boissevain and Carman. The team forced a tiebreaker to advance to the playoff, where they were unfortunately defeated. Manitoba’s curlers are among the best in the country, and the sport is experiencing a rebirth with strong showings from Manitoba teams on the national and international stage. These 24 teams and all the teams in this province truly are the best parts of the game, showcasing their dedication, their experience and their love of the game.

The curling clubs of this province are full of great volunteers and great curlers who help to keep that sport alive, and it takes dedicated people from all over Manitob a to keep our curlers among the best in Canada. Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate Ray and his team for a great showing, and, of course, Team Kerry Fedorchuk, with third Vince Van Dorp, second Bob Fryza and lead Ian Grieve; and Team Tracy Andries, with third Crystal Kennedy, second Diane Christensen and lead April Klassen, on their capturing of the 2014 Manitoba provincial Dominion championship.

Good luck at the nationals, which will be held in Halifax, Nova Scotia, this coming November 24th to 29th, 2014. Mr. Speaker, c urling is a fun sport to watch and an even better sport to play, and it was truly a great season for all of Manito ba’s curlers. Until next season, thank you. Assiniboia Community Appreciation Night Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): Mr. Speaker, Assiniboia is a community that thrives on a tradition of volunteerism and service. We have a fantastic network of volunteers who with admirable gener - osity contribute their time to projects they are passionate about.

These individuals do not ask for recognition of their service, but on April 21st it was my pleasure to spend an evening celebrating their dedication at the 14th Annual Assiniboia Community Appreciation Night. This long- standing community tradition is an opportunity to publicly recognize and thank our community volunteers. They devote so much of their time and energy towards helping others, and this event is just one small token of appreciation they deserve. This year, over 85 volunteers, guests and myself celebrated at the Canad Inns Polo Park. Everyone received a gift to honour their work.

The volunteers we recognized have spent countless hours and even years contributing their talents to our community. They come from a diverse collection of organizations , including the Heritage Victoria Community Club, CARP, Military Family Resource Centre, the 55+ Centre Fit and Flex, as well as numerous schools, service clubs and sports organizations. Each v olunteer has their own unique skill set that enriches the organization s that they serve. I would like to extend a big thank you to the businesses and community members whose support generously allows us to continue to make this event so special.

Most of us –most of al l, I would like to thank the volunteers themselves. Your work touches so many lives and continues to make Assiniboia, the province, the world , a better place to live. Saying thank you and throwing a party is the least I can do to express my gratitude for everything you do. Mr. Speaker, to close, I would ask leave to include all the members' names and the organizations that they serve to be placed in Hansard. Do I have the leave? * (14:30) Mr.

Speaker: Does the honourable member for Assiniboia have leave to include the names in today's Hansard? [Agreed] 1st Kirkfield Scout Group: John Thiessen, Kris Weggert; 55 + Fit and Flex: Evelyn Safnuk, Margaret Yuill; Assiniboia West Recreation Assoc.

Inc.: Mark Dobres, Dan Henrickson, Myrna Little, Shauna Sutherland; Assiniboine Memorial Curling Club: Bruce Wilkinson; Buchanan School: Lil Atamanchuk, Tracey Broughton, Claudette Lawrence; CARP: Mabel Boehmer, Ann- Marie Howe, Claire Lacroix, Emily Williamson; CAVUNP: Murdoch Jardine, Linda Jardine; Elderobi cs: Colleen Gunn, Kathy Thompson; First Kirkfield Ventures: Chris Parsons, Scott Rebalkin; Gold Wings–Winnipeg Airport: Peter Czayka,

2242 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 Mervyn McGregor; Golden West Centennial Lodge: Judy Balabas, Denise Doty, Wilma Wiebe; Heritage Lodge: Bill Gibson, Chris Knowles, Cecile Wagner; Heritage Victoria Community Centre: Tara Davidson, Sharon Groombridge, Sharon Larouche, Lynda MacCausland, Glynis Zubec; John Taylor Collegiate: Monique Johnson, Wendy Scherger; Kiwanis–Assiniboia: Caroll Dalke, Harvey Dalke; Lions Estates: Darlene Brooks, Linda Parnell Bonnie; Manitoba School for the Deaf: Shane Boyce, Brandon Boyce; Manitoba Womens Junior Hockey League: Linda Benson, Kirk Kuppers, Sonia Kuppers; Mensheds: Doug Breadie; Metropolitan Kiwanis Centre: Hilda Bales, Eleanor Schroeder; Military Family Resource Centre: Amanda Rents; Ness Middle School: Tina Macleod; Oakview Place: Jo Cork, Annette Kohut; Over 55 & Retired Club– ANAF #283: Joan Glover, Norma Lavallee; Prairie Dog Central: Andrew Nelson; Rotary Club of Assiniboia: Kathy Lanthier, Lorna Law; Royal Canadian Legion #4: James F.

Simm; Salvation Army Heritage Park Temple: Bill Matthews; St. James Assiniboia 55+ Centre: Jan Bissett, Gail Fear, Ruth Henry, Peter Henry; St. James Rods Football Club: Mary Little, Paul M cKie, Jim McMillan, Laura Shea; Winnipeg Military Family Resource: Nathalie Dufour, Karen Hansen, Michele Lemieux, Eldren Thuen; YMCA/YWCA –West Winnipeg: Erin Brudett, Laura Friesen; Lloyd Finlay, Dallas Molloy Frederickson Performance Centre (AED) Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Mr.

Speaker, late last year, Brian Fowler went to Frederickson Performance Centre in Brandon for his regular workout with athletic therapist Elise Delorme. Little did he know the drama that would quickly unfold that day. During the workout, Elise noticed Mr. Fowler take a misstep, look blankly at her and then collapse. Elise's emergency training immediately kicked in as she directed Jim Ferguson to get help. Al Luhowy and Elise started CPR while Jill Frederickson called 911.

Co-owners Jim and Jill Frederickson had invested in an automated external defibrillator, or AED, two or three years ago at a cost of about $3,000 and ensured that all of their staff were trained in its use. Elise and Al attached the AED's electrodes to Brian's chest and followed the instructions, which advised a shock. They pressed the button, delivered the shock and then continued CPR. The AED advised another shock, and then continued CPR and then turned Brian over to the firefighter -paramedics for continued tr eatment.

The firefighter -paramedics administered CPR and three more shocks from their own AED along with cardiac drugs before transporting Brian to the hospital in Brandon. Firefighter-paramedic Rob Brown praised the efforts of Elise and Al. He said if it wasn't for them, the outcome could have been totally different. Brian Fowler remembers waking up in the hospital and then being flown to Winnipeg and being taken to St. Boniface General Hospital. He had experienced a cardiac arrest and now has a small def ibrillator implanted in his chest.

The Fowler Hyundai owner is now back to work and, not surprisingly, is a big fan of AEDs and has ordered and installed one of them for the car dealership. Mr. Speaker, Brian Fowler calls Elise Delorme his little angel an d recently said, I was in the right place at the right time with the right people and the right equipment. The quick reaction of the gym staff and the on- site defibrillator was crucial to Brian's survival. Jill Frederickson thinks every business should have an AED. She said, I think every single business should have one. You're dealing with the general public.

You don't know who's going to come through those doors. Mr. Speaker, I congratulate Elise Delorme, Al Luhowy, and Jill and Jim Frederickson for their foresight and their quick response to an emergency situation. I also wish Brian Fowler well in his recovery. Punjab Cultural Centre Ms. Melanie Wight (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba's strength is in its diversity. We are a meeting place for people of all walks of life and, in the spirit of friendship, we share our traditions, our ideas and our values.

I am very pleased that we will soon officially open a new institution in north Winnipeg that celebrates a growing and vibrant culture in Manitoba: the Punjab Cultural Centre. This centre will serve the needs of the Punjabi communities in Winnipeg. It will act as a gathering place for cele- brations and provide the community with oppor - tunities to celebrate their language and culture. The centre was the result of a tremendous partnership between our government, the federal government, the City of Winnipeg and the

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2243 community. It features a gym and playing fields, a large banquet hall, a seniors' centre, a daycar e and classrooms for adult education. With such a wide array of services under one roof, the centre will bring the–Manitoba's Punjab community closer together. On April 13th, I attended the Vaisakhi celebration with my colleagues, including the member for Radisson (Mr. Jha) and the member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe). This was one of the first large events held at the new centre. More than 1,500 people joined the celebration.

It was a brilliant example of Punjab culture with a vibrant array of colourful clothing, delicious food, lively enter - tainment and many, many families with interesting stories to share. The event was an important reminder of the role the Punjab Cultural Centre will play. There was such a strong sense of community as people from all ages from all parts of Manitoba joined together to mark this joyous occasion. I want to thank the Manitoba Sikh Cultural and Seniors Centre and the Punjab Foundation of Manitoba for having the vision and determination to make this project a reality.

The Punjab Cultural Centre was the result of a community joining together and embarking on an incredible journey. I'm so happy that your dreams have finally become a reality. Mr. Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr. Speaker: Se eing no grievances, orders of the day, government business. Hon. Andrew Swan (Government House Leader): Could you please call second reading of Bill 51 and then debate on second reading of Bill 3, Bill 10, Bill 18, Bill 33 and Bill 37. Mr.

Speaker: We'll call bills in the following order: second reading debate on Bill 51, followed by debate on second readings of bills 3, 10, 18, 33 and 37. SECOND READINGS Bill 51–The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act Mr. Speaker: Starting with second readings of bills and calling Bill 51, The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act. Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister for Housing and Community Development (Mr. Bjornson), that Bill 51, The Legislative Assem bly Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée l égislative, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Mr. Swan : This bill will amend The Legislative Assembly Act to extend mailing privileges for members of the Assembly in accordance with the recommendations made by the special commissioner, Michael Werier. This bill will provide that, subject to certain conditions, members of this Legislature will be allowed to have addressed and unaddressed letters to our constituents delivered by delivery companies or as inserts to local newspapers. Mr.

Speaker, we know that communication with our constituents is essential to the work of any member of the Legislative Assembly. Although MLAs have more tools than ever to reach out to those people they represent, it is still the case that one of the most important of these continues to be our ability to ensure information is delivered to our constituents' homes. The passage of this bill will make it easier to ensure that vital information is delivered to our constituents in a timely manner. I acknowledge this matter has been around for some time, and I appreciate other MLAs for their input and their advice.

I think we can all agree that it was the right thing to ref er this matter to the commissioner, Michael Werier, who has served the Province very well and gives good advice. And I think we have arrived at an agreement on the conclusions of Commissioner Werier, and I do thank him for his advice. It is certainly tim e to move on with this. There have been frustrations with Canada Post for some time, Mr. Speaker, and one of the biggest frustrations as an urban member is the refusal by Canada Post to guarantee delivery of MLAs' mailings within constituency boundaries.

I know a lot of work has been done by the government caucus, I presume by the opposition caucus as well and the independent members, to try to resolve this and, unfortunately, it was not possible to work that out. We didn't know at the time we referred thi s matter to Commissioner Werier that Canada Post, despite having operated profitably for 16 consecutive

2244 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 years, would decide that a huge increase in postal rates was an appropriate thing to foist upon Canadians. We also didn't know at the time we referred t his matter to Commissioner Werier that Canada Post would, again, despite 16 consecutive years of profitability and their supposed mandate for public service as a Crown corporation, would announce the end of home delivery altogether, indeed, becoming the only western country to do so, and it's been frustrating.

I know that home delivery is being phased out in a number of areas, perhaps coincidentally in those areas which seem to be represented by opposition MPs, but that's another story. We're not debating that today, although I do point out the opposition refused to pass the private members' resolution put forward by the member for The Maples (Mr. Saran). I can't believe they would support the decision of the federal Conservative government and Canada Post , but they'll have to answer to Manitobans as to why they're not standing up for Manitobans and instead are listening to their federal Conservative line.

But we're not debating that today. We're debating better ways for us to get information into the hands of our constituents. It will be, I suppose, even easier to show that can be done in a more cost -effective way to the taxpayers of Manitoba with the tremendous increases that Canada Post is now putting on Canadians for less service. So I certainly look forward to moving this matter along to a committee and having this in effect as soon as possible. * (14:40) Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, I, first of all, want to make sure that all members are aware and the public aware that this was a Liberal initiative. The first version of this bill was introduced Tuesday, June the 12th of 2012, and it was introduced then because it was quite clear that it was going to be important not only to deliver newsletters effectively, but to have them cost effectively, and the resulting delay in having this happen has meant several hundred thousand dollars extra costs to the government. It's too bad that the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Swan) is looking at other matters, but the fact of the matter is that when yo u have an initiative which eventually comes out of LAMC as an all -party initiative which finally was agreed to after considerable pushing over the last two years by the Liberal Party, that this Minister of Justice chooses to make it a partisan speech attacking other members.

Now, I think that instead of trying to talk about one of the few occasions when we can work together to actually get something done that benefits taxpayers as well as makes it more convenient for members in terms of making sure that our newsletters and our communications get out well.

And so I would add, and I think the MLA for Steinbach would remember because he's been involved in some of these discussions, that not only was the initial bill rejected by the NDP, but numerous times that I raised this in the Legislative Assembly management committee, the NDP – [interjection] Yes, numerous times that I have raised it on other occasions it has been delayed and delayed and, finally, I'm very pleased that we have this here.

There was an agreement, actually, that there would be a joint effort in putting this forward, but, of course, in the final analysis the Minister of Justice chose not to consult in the final development of the bill and to bring it forward as if it was a government initiative, not a joint initiative from all members of the House. And I want to thank Mr. Werier for the time and effort he put in to have a look at the subject and come to a recommendation because Mr. Werier's work and recommendation was very helpful in moving this forward. Indeed, the step to get it to Mr.

Werier came out of an agreement from last year after we spent months and months in the Legislature, and one of the provisos of that final agreement was that this bill would indeed be –go to Mr. Werier and so that we could finally get a resolution and we could save some money as well as make it better for MLAs. And so I want to mention this particularly today, because earlier this morning at 11 o'clock at the Shaarey Zedek Synagogue I was at the funeral for Val Wer ier, the father of Mike Werier. And Mike Werier gave a very eloquent talk, a eulogy about his father.

And I think it's worthwhile mentioning the incredible contributions that Mr. Val Werier, the father of Michael Werier, has made in this instance as a bit of a tribute. And that would be that, you know, the St. Amant Centre might not have been there without Val Werier, that The Forks, his columns and his writing might not have developed in the way that it did without Mr. Val Werier, that the effort to preser ve the elm trees might not have been as vigorous without the passionate advocacy of

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2245 Mr. Werier and, of course, he's well known for his advocacy on behalf of Lake Winnipeg because, in part, he had a cottage at Winnipeg Beach and, in part, because he was ver y passionately concerned about the environment and making sure that we would be passing on a good stewardship of our environment to the next generation. And so, Mr. Speaker, you know, let us, you know, overcome for one–a few minutes the divisions in this House. Let us support this legislation. Let us move it forward, but let us move it forward in part as a tribute to Mr.

Val Werier and all the work that he has done on behalf of Manitoba citizens, because I'm sure that he would appreciate the work that his son, Michael Werier, has done in enabling this legislation. Thank you. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): It's a pleasure to respond to this bill. As the House leader for the Progressive Conservative official opposition, I want to thank the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) for his comments.

It's a rare occasion that I find myself in agreement with the member for River Heights and perhaps even rarer that I agree with everything, I think, that he said in his speech, and there was a number of things that he touched on. I also want to say that this is one of those times where partisanship should not be brought into the debate. I was disappointed to hear the words from the Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan). There are times we can have debates on politics; th ere are many times in this House, in fact, the majority of times. I don't think this is one of them. So I'll leave it at that, Mr. Speaker.

I do recognize that it was the member for River Heights who brought forward this issue to my attention initially an d has been advocating over a couple of years for this to be brought forward and changed. I don't think at the time that he indicated to me originally we recognized that it had to be done by legislation, and there was a bit more of a process involved in get ting it done than maybe was thought of at first. Some of this, we thought, could be done by other means, but it had to come through legislation, so it's just at that point now.

I also want to say, and I only learned about it now in the comments from the m ember for River Heights, the passing of Michael Werier's father. And I want to send along, on behalf of our caucus and, I think, all members of the House, our condolences to him and to his family. We've all been served well by Mr. Werier in his role as c ommissioner, and I don't mean served well in terms of the outcomes. There were outcomes that he is responsible for bringing to us as an Assembly, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't agree with, and that's okay.

I think the process for an independent commissioner to determine things like salaries and benefits and how some of the allowances work is a good process, and it's one that our party has supported. We do not believe there should be interference in those sort of things. Whether I agree with the decisions or not, the process is right to have an independent commissioner determine those things that impact us directly. I think the public would generally say we should not be determining our own salary, our own benefits. That should be done externally.

And I agree that we –I'm glad that we have the process where we are not making those decisions. And I reject those times when there's political interference in the decisions that come from Mr. Werier. Whether I agree with them, there are certai n things within the context of this decision, that I might have or would have suggested differently. I think overall it's in the right direction, but, you know, how the delivery can happen, I might have had some of my own different feelings, but that's not the point.

The point is that I agree with the process because I'm–I feel much better when I speak to my own constituents about these things when I can say, well, you know, that was decided by somebody in - dependent who took a look at it, looked at the standards across the country. It wasn't decided necessarily by me individually. But I think that–I like the precedent that this sets in terms of trying to find –so concluding on that remark, Mr.

Speaker, I do want to, again, re-emphasize we appreciate very mu ch the fact the member for River Heights brought this issue forward and has been dogged in pursuing it and also that he's raised the issue of the passing of Mr. Werier's father, and we also join with him in our appreciation for him and the virtues and the skills that he's invested in his son.

I do want to say, though, in terms of a precedent, I think this is a good precedent, that we should be looking at ways, particularly in the environment where the cost of mailing is going up and will probably continue to go up, to look for ways where we can reduce costs. This is one method to ensure that the delivery can happen by means other than

2246 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 Canada Post. I believe, personally, that there are ways that we could look to ensure that not everything has to be direct mail, that it has to go by stamped envelope. I think that there are ways that we could find other cost savings. * (14:50) So I simply say that in the context that we should always, as legislators, look at that balance. We have a responsibility to communicate with our constituents. We should be communicating with our constituents–that is something that's important for us to do.

We have a certain amount of ability to do that, but it's a limited ability, it is not unlimited and it should not be unlimited. But I do think that we need to continue to look for ways to–within those limitations, to try to find ways in an environment of higher postage to ensure that we're doing what we can to keep those costs down while reminding ourselves that we have a resp onsibility as well to ensure that people know what is going on here in the Legislature and what our work is as well. So I appreciate that this bill is been brought forward, I think it has all -party support.

I don't think there'll be amendments to it becau se we're looking, obviously, to support the outcome that Mr. Werier has decided on this particular issue, and we look forward to this bill going forward to committee. Of course, if there is members of the public who have questions about it and how some of these things are done, that is fair game.

And members of the public can certainly come and bring their own presentations to committee if they want, but I feel more comfortable and more secure with the bill going to committee knowing that it's not something that we directed, that it's come from the commissioner and it's the right precedent to set, I think. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Is there any further debate on Bill 51? Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of Bill 51, the Legislative Assembly 'amenchment' act.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 3–The Witness Security Amendment Act Mr. Speaker: We'll now proceed under debate in second readings –on second readings to call Bill 3, The Witness Security Amendment Act, standing in the name of the honourable member for Midland (Mr. Pedersen), I believe. Is there leave for this matter t o remain standing in the name of the honourable member for Midland? Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Speaker: No? Leave has been denied. Any further debate on this bill? No? Is the House ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Speaker: Question before the House is debate on second reading of Bill 3, The Witness Security Amendment Act. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 10–The Fires Prevention and Emergency Response Amendment Act Mr. Speaker: We'll now proceed to call on debate in second readings of Bill 10, The Fires Prevention and Emergency Response Amendment Act, standing in the name of the honourable member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson). Is there leave for this matter to remain standing in the name of the honourable member for Tuxedo? Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Acting Government House Leader): Yes, on a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if it would be appropriate to just adjourn the House for–recess the House for a minute just so I can have discussions with the Opposition House Leader? Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to recess the House for five minutes? [Agreed] So we'll ring the bells for one minute when the five minutes has expired. The House recessed at 2:53 p.m. ____________ The House resumed at 3 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2247 The–is there leave of the House to allow the Bill 10, The Fires Prevention and Emergency Response Amendment Act, to remain standing in the name of the honourable member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson)? [Agreed] Any further debate? Mr. Chomiak: On House business, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: On House business. Mr.

Chomiak: I just wanted to thank members of the House and the House leader for the opposition in aiding me in clarifying the direction this aftern oon, and I want to thank members for providing the leave to do that, and yourself as well, so that we can continue debate on these important matters, so thank you. Mr. Speaker: I thank the honourable minister. Is there further debate at this time on Bill 10? Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): It's a pleasure just to put a few words on the record regarding this bill.

There was a lot of issues, of course, regarding the substance of the bill that our critic will be able, at a future time, to speak to the legislation, Mr. Speaker, but it is an opportunity when we talk about any legislation about fire prevention or emergency response to thank all of those who are in fact involved in that kind of activity, and we have a great number, of course, many of who do it as a profession, who do it as a living, who are professional firefighters or paramedics. But there are also many who do it on a volunteer or part-time basis.

I know within many of the com - munities that we represent, members on both sides of the House, we have individuals who volunteer within their communities to, for example, it's only one example, but to be the firefighters in their com - munity. My brother -in-law is involved with the volunteer fire department in New Bothwell, and, as part of that r esponsibility, he responds to a number of calls, not just fires but other calls that happen around the region, and as the member for Dawson Trail (Mr. Lemieux), he would know, in that area they can be very serious calls and very difficult calls to deal with.

Part of the difficulty often is, and I'm always – you know, I find it amazing that people step up so willingly to do this, is because they are local fire - fighters in sometimes relatively small areas, they often know the people who they are responding in terms of an emergency. They have some sort of a connection, so that adds, you know, an extra level of emotion, an extra level of challenge, but also I think an extra reason to be involved in such a thing, because they see the importance of it.

When I get a chance to visit, locally, the open houses, and we have –I suspect it's the same in many different areas and certainly in the city of Winnipeg where the fire department will have an open house, and you can come and you can look at the equipment and the various things they do. Sometimes they have what's called a firehouse there, and you have the opportunity to sort of go through that, and they teach young people how they should respond in the case of a fire. And I shouldn't actually just say young people. In fact, they actually teach many of us things that we didn't know.

So I went through that firehouse a couple of times with my son who is seven years old now, and it's a great fascination to him. Many young people, of course, at that age are fascinated by anything that have the sirens and the lights and make noise and have colours, Mr.

Speaker, and so we go through the house, and, of course, they teach you to check to see if doors are hot in case of a fire and the variety of different things that you can do, whether it's appropriate to be leaving through a window or those sort of things, and they teach you how to act within a kitchen, about not leaving appliances on and the danger that can happen there, how to use extinguishers and when to use extinguishe rs or when not to use extinguishers.

And that is certainly something that is valuable, and when you actually go and you go to these different areas, these different open houses, you find that it's the volunteer firefighters or in the cases of full time, the full-time firefighters, who are hands on in terms of doing this education and doing this knowledge, making sure that people are informed. So that's an aspect of the job that many people don't often see. We often, of course, see the fire trucks or an a mbulance racing down a street or racing down in a village, and we know that they're off to something that's important, that it's an emergency.

What we don't see is that educational aspect that so many of these individuals are involved in, in training and t rying to prevent the very things that they're rushing to. Because any firefighter, any paramedic would tell you that they don't want to go to more calls. They want to go to less calls. They want to see people who aren't in jeopardy, who aren't

2248 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 in those dangerous situations, so they spend so much of their time training. You know, I've had the opportunity, I think others have, to visit these stations not during open houses but when they're more –at times when they're waiting to respond to calls, and you see t hem doing training, ongoing training. Some of the fire houses that are built now have their own, sort of, training units on the building. You can do ascents from buildings. You can do that kind of rescue work that you'd expect during certain emergencies.

We also know that there are training facilities that are more central. So whether you're going to Brandon to do training, for example, as they often do–I think we often underestimate how much training is involved. It's an ongoing sort of thing. It isn't a matter of a firefighter or a paramedic simply getting their initial training and then going forward and doing the job. That is certainly a part of it. You have to do that initial training, but there is ongoing training.

There is always that upgrading and ensuring that you're up on the latest techniques, whether it's fighting a fire, whether it is being involved as a paramedic. And we know that they don't do it for money, though; whether it's somebody who's full time or whether it's somebody who's doing i t on a part -time or a volunteer basis, the motivation is still that same. I've never had the experience where I've met a firefighter or a paramedic where they were doing it for the money.

They are always doing it because they want to help somebody, because they want to, in fact, ensure that their community is safer, that their village is safer. We had the experience –we had the opportunity to get away for a couple of weeks this winter, which was nice, but we had a situation. We were down south for two weeks where we needed some assistance, and it was a Sunday and we were in a community that was strange to us and we didn't know where to go. So what I said to–and my son, actually, said this, he said, well, we should go to a fire department because firefighter s are trained to help.

And I thought that was a very astute thing, so we drove to the nearest fire station. We were able to look it up on a GPS. We went into the fire station. We explained our situation, our problem, and the firefighter there did a tremend ous job in terms of ensuring that we had access to things we needed. We needed a phone. We needed to make a phone call back to Canada. He helped us with that in providing us a phone to do that. We needed Internet access that we didn't have, and he provided that Internet access.

And while he was doing that so I could make the calls to deal with the emergency that I needed to deal with at that time, he took my son around the fire station and he let him go into the fire truck and was teaching him different things and gave him a fire hat and stickers. And I –when I got back, I wrote a letter to the fire department just to say, you know, thank you so much.

The neat thing about it was that the first thing that my son thought of when we were sitting there going, wel l, we need to deal with this emergency situation but we don't have what we need to deal with it where we were, the first thing he thought of is, well, let's go to the fire department because they are there to help people. And that's great because they are. And so no matter what the situation is we have individuals in our community who say let's stand up and let's help. And that's universal, I think, across Manitoba, across Canada and, in my experience, in the United States.

So that was something that reminded me of how fortunate we are that we have individuals who are willing to do that. It's not for everybody. I mean, everybody has, I think, different skills, different abilities, different passions. And I am always amazed how individuals can run into a situation of danger when everybody else is fleeing. Of course, our natural instinct in terms of a fire or something like that, an emergency, is to get away from the harm, is to get away from the danger. That's what our bodies are programmed to do, to flee from that which is harmful.

Firefighters and paramedics, as an example of emergency responders, have to fight that instinct and they have to go against that instinct to run away and, in fact, to run to the danger and to run into those situations. We kno w that there are times when those who are responding in this way where they've lost their own lives –and we've seen that in Manitoba and we've had some very moving and very poignant ceremonies for firefighters who've been lost here in Manitoba. I know membe rs of this House, some of us have attended those funerals.

And they are so difficult to go to because that sense of a loss when somebody else is trying to help someone else is as deep as, I think, the feeling of loss can be. But what always amazes me is when you hear from the families of those individuals who, unfortunately, have lost someone who was an emergency responder is, almost uniformly, you hear

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2249 them say, well, this is what, you know, my husband or my wife or my son or my daughter, this is what they wanted to do. This was their passion. They believed in helping people and, you know, they wouldn't have it any other way. * (15:10) Well, the outcome, of course, they would've had a different way but that they loved to do that work so much, that they cared so much about helping other people, that they knew that there was dangers there, they knew that there were sacrifices there but, in fact, they were willing to take those sacrifices, Mr. Speaker.

So, I mean, when we talk about legislation that ever involves emergency responders, when talk about legislation that involves those who are here to help us, whether we agree with every portion of the legislation or how it's dealt with, there's always room for disagreement in that, Mr. Speaker. In fact, in a democracy that's something that we treasure. We value the ability to disagree on different issues. But there'll never be disagreement, I don't think, in this House, and I hope I never see disagreement on this issue that we value so much, those who are in our communities.

And I want to say before I conclude, Mr. Speaker, that it's not simply those individuals who are doing the job, those individuals who are riding in the fire trucks and who are rushing into homes or those individuals who are in the ambulance going to a scene and trying to help somebody who needs medical attention. It's not just those individuals who are making a contribution or who are making a sacrifice. It's also their families. It's sometimes their businesses.

In situations where you hav e a volunteer firefighter situations, the businesses have to agree to let their employees essentially be part of that volunteer organization because they know they can be called away from the business.

That can come with something of an economic cost, of m ore a disruption to business cost, and yet I know in the community–in the communities that I represent, that the businesses are more than willing to allow that to happen, more than willing to have individuals be part of the –of their fire brigade or work as first responders, to ensure that they have that community service, even though they might have to leave their place of work every once in a while as a result of a call.

So that's a contribution, that's a community contribution that a business makes that often isn't recognized as much as it should be recognized. And, of course, the contributions that families make because these calls, and I know this in the fact of my own family, as I mentioned earlier, Mr. Speaker, the calls for an emergency come whenev er the emergency is. And often they are at times which are late into the night. Sometimes those calls come when people are involved with family gatherings or together with friends and there's no option to hit the ignore button on an emergency call.

Those individuals who are on call for an emergency, they go, whether there's a family wedding going on or whether there's a family gathering going on, they leave and there's an understanding, I think, within most families that that is part of the sacrifice, a pa rt of the contribution that individuals who are involved as emergency responders are willing to make. So we want to extend our thanks, of course, beyond those who are just doing the work in an emergency, doing the on- call scenes, which we see most readily, Mr.

Speaker, and to say that there are many others who ensure that that happens, that that contribution happens. And we want to encourage individuals to continue to do it. We know that there was licence plates that were issued to recognize those who are involved with –as emergency re - sponders, and that is something that we supported because we think it's important, in fact, to recognize individuals. It's a small way to offer recognition but we do think that it is important to find those ways, where we can, to offer that recognition for those who often don't get the recognition that they deserve.

So the bill, as it will come back before this House in second reading, we'll hear some words particularly to the nuances of the legislation from our critic, the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Smook), at a future date, but I didn't want this opportunity to go by, Mr. Speaker, without the chance to say thank you to those who are involved as emergency responders, for those who keep our communities safe and for those who unfortunately have sometimes have to make sacrifices, small or large, to ensure that we have the protection that we deserve.

So I look forward, perhaps, to other comments on this bill or to a debate at a future time. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I'd like to say a few words about this legislation. I want to, first of all, compliment the firefighters around the province and the people who work on the grassroots preventing fires and dealing with

2250 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 emergencies because this is something on which all of us rely, and we are, you know, very thankful that we have individuals who are as dedicated and as effective as they are in this area. And, of course, one needs to deal with emergencies and needs to have an ability to act quickly in preventing emergencies. We need to be able to make sure that there are appropriate procedures that will ensure that preventive actions are taken, and in circumstances like this that the fines and so on for preventive action not be ing taken are there.

I think all of us were surprised at the huge fire that occurred not all that long ago in St. Boniface and really brought to much a broader realization the extent to which flammable chemicals are to be found even in the city of Winnipeg in places and stored and that there are significant risks and we clearly need to be vigilant in preventing events related to that. And so I'm looking forward to discussion that occurs at the committee stage, input from people.

I think it has to be added that it's–it was very sad under this NDP government to have the corruption which occurred in the Fire Commissioner's office as was revealed by the Auditor General. You know, this is a pretty dark mark, a pretty black mark, you know, on this government and, of course, you know, we have to be careful that it doesn't shake the general confidence that people have in the firefighters and in the efforts that are being made at a provincial level.

But it certainly shows the importance not only of making sure that our grassroots firefighters and people involved in prevention are there and are well supported, but it also needs to be emphasized in light of the corruption that occurred on the watch of this government that you need to have power being used wisely with appropriate appeals, and there is in this legislation an appeal.

But, in spite of the fact that the situation appears to be improved now in the Fire Commissioner's office, we continue to have concerns under this government with the ways that they aren't as careful as they need to be in spending of money in emergencies, and we certainly saw this in the flood of 2011. And the Auditor General had a report on how money was spent in the Lake Manitoba recovery plan and, clearly, as the Auditor General pointed out, there could've been a great deal of improvement.

And there were, indeed, areas that the Auditor General didn't go into, but which, from discussions that occurred around how things were handled in Lake Manitoba, there were areas where dollars could've been spent more wisely and more effectively to help people. And so that it is something that all of us need to be aware of that, yes, we need to act quickly, yes, we need to act vigorously to prevent fires and to do what we can. But we also need to make sur e that we are spending dollars wisely and not throwing them around as this government too often has had the tendency to do. And so, Mr.

Speaker, with those few words, I look forward to this legislation going to committee and on to the next step. Thank you. Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Tourism, Culture, Heritage, Sport and Consumer Protection): I'd like the opportunity just to put a couple of words on the record with regard to Bill 10 and fire prevention, and I certainly would adhere to what other speaker s before me had said. * (15:20) And, in fact, I'd like to pay an aroundabout compliment to the MLA for Steinbach.

The MLA for Steinbach–I've talked, in my travels –being in the southeast, I've talked to firefighters in Steinbach and other communities, and the MLA for Steinbach is looked upon in a very good light, because he is very supportive of emergency workers in general but certainly firefighters. And people have told me this personally. Firefighters in Ste. Anne and firefighters in Steinbach and other communities have made comment to that. So he may not be aware of that, but I have been.

When I've passed –I've given an MLA plaque–when the days where you were allowed to do this, I gave an MLA plaque to the volunteer firefighters in my constituency; it w as called La Verendrye at the time. But that's where the people had made comments about the MLA for Steinbach. And I just want to make sure I put that on the record because it was passed on to me–[interjection] –in sincerity. And so I just want –and I don't think I've ever had the chance to tell him that, but they know he was very supportive of the volunteer workers in that area. So, just on that, Mr.

Speaker, I want to talk about that a little bit because as was talked about earlier and mentioned earlier, was that often when people are running out of a building when it's burning, it's firefighters that are running in. And they're going in to find out who is left behind and who is in some danger with regard to either their life or safety. And it's certainly important to note, because many of these firefighters receive very good training, and they certainly –volunteer firefighters in rural Manitoba and other communities, some larger

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2251 than others–do not get compensated a great deal of money. A lot of their time i s covered, but they do it because they have a real passion for contributing and giving back to their community. And that is something worthwhile for all of us in this Chamber to acknowledge. And by taking a look at what Bill 10 says, amending The Fires P revention and Emergency Response Act to allow administrative penalties to be imposed–being imposed on people, quite frankly, Mr. Speaker, that are not adhering to the laws of the province with regard to fire safety.

And it puts a lot of people at risk. A lot of those firefighters often will enter a building not knowing what chemicals, what explosives are inside those buildings, even though they're supposed to be noted. Often that's not done. And yet the firefighters –and every year, regrettably, you hear abo ut a–police officers that are shot in the line of duty or injured or fatally wounded, and yet firefighters throughout North America, I believe there's more loss of life with firefighters than there are with people in the police service. It's regrettable.

They're trying to help people and they're trying to do their best to make their community safe. And so, Mr. Speaker, I know when I was in the civil service, I worked for the department of workplace safety and health –it was actually called the department o f Environment, Workplace Safety and Health –for four years in the mid -'80s. And at that time a lot of legislation was being brought in with regard to chemicals and the kind of chemicals that were in different businesses and different institutions.

And that had a huge impact on firefighters and what the firefighters were able to do or not do, because those that were the individuals when a fire took place had to enter buildings with hazardous materials in there. So the materials were to be listed on the outsid e of a building, and yet we know that not many businesses did that and, regrettably, firefighters have been injured in the past as a result of the contents inside of those buildings.

So, when you have administrative penalties that can be imposed, our gov ernment really believes that the current maximum penalties do not reflect the serious health and safety risks that are created when personal or corporate responsibilities with respect to fire safety are not met. That's the key. You have many volunteers, ev en though the training is very good, they still put their life and their safety at risk entering a lot of buildings not knowing what's in there.

And I know that all of us in this Chamber certainly not only respect the job that firefighters do– and maybe I can just reflect back to the days where a lot of coverage with regard to different types of cancers. And I know, Mr. Speaker, the days where you were an MLA sitting in the benches –and still an MLA, but the days you were –still an MLA –but the days when you were sitting here on the benches with–you made often passionate pleas with regard to the kind of legislation that should be brought in with regard to different types of cancers for firefighters.

And, indeed, many of the firefighters in Manitoba have acknow ledged your approach to those issues – and I'm trying to watch my words carefully because you're an independent person. But I want to say, though, that those days you raised a lot of issues as a safety and health critic, elected the MLA for Transcona and y ou raise a number of those issues. And then, when this party became government of Manitoba, we brought those into place.

And those –to this day there are many firefighters and many states in the United States and cities look at Manitoba as a leader with reg ard to what we did and we've done with regard to firefighters with regard to carcinogens and products that would cause cancer, different types of cancer to firefighters. And you should be commended for this, because as a new MLA in 1999 when I came into this Chamber you spoke about those types of dangers that were there, and our government –Becky Barrett was the minister of Labour and then, I believe, the MLA for St.

Vital came after her–and those pieces of legislation were brought into this Chamber to prote ct firefighters because we received medical evidence and medical evidence showed that it was really important to address these types of cancers that were directly related to firefighters. And it could be pointed out scientifically and medically that firefighters were the ones that were–because of the work that they did the cancers that they had received were as a result of that. And so as a government we take great pride in pointing to the legislation that we put forward with regard to, regrettably, thos e firefighters.

Many passed away as a result of their cancers and the injuries they had, but the families that were left behind, through the Workers Compensation Board and through others, people realized the importance of what we did and realized that we w ere standing up for firefighters and that would be whether you're a volunteer or whether or not you're a so -called professional firefighter and that's your day job and

2252 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 that's what you do as your profession. And yet, you know, many rural –and firefighters ar ound Manitoba are impacted by the same kind of carcinogens out there and they also appreciate what we've done for them. But this particular act, Mr. Speaker –and there are many, of course, here who wish to speak on this– but I just want to say that many of us who have encountered and have worked with and stood beside our neighbours who are volunteer firefighters and others know that some of the fines were quite ridiculous.

And, you know, it says currently the maximum penalties under the act for the first offence was only $1,000 for an individual and $5,000 for a corporation. And this bill significantly raises those fines to $125,000 for non- compliance of an individual and $250,000. So, in this day and age, with taking a look at inflation and what has happe ned since these fines were first put into place, and it gets to be, I think, more of a deterrent, certainly for those that wish to skirt the law or those who do not wish to–and want to be in contravention of regulations.

There's at least an additional tool for enforcement, taking a look at another side that maybe they'll get the message as a result. And everyone has a right to go to work and come back home safe, and this includes, of course, people who are in the profession of firefighting and people who are the ones who we really depend on to ensure that they're, you know, preventing fires or certainly responding to emergency issues. I want to digress slightly, but with regard to what firefighters are also doing. A community I represent, St e.

Anne, Manit oba, has a volunteer fire department there, and they are right along No. 1 Highway. So often you think of firefighters as those individuals who will put fires out and help individuals when a fire occurs, but what has happened, and I believe the MLA for St einbach commented on this, that they're often called out for many different reasons, and one of the reasons is automobile accidents.

And now they have received training in the Jaws of Life and how to use that and how to cut open –many of us have seen those exhibitions where firefighters show you how they can open up a vehicle when people are trapped in them. * (15:30) And I know that in St e. Anne you have a volunteer fire department that's been called out along with the RCMP to attend many accidents on No. 1 Highway, and some fairly recently, and they've been asked to pull people out of damaged vehicles where they've been trapped and they have received great training on how to do that.

So it's more than just fires that they're called out to address, and, as the member from Steinbach commented, that even they will help you if you show up and ask directions or ask for some assistance in some way, they're more than pleased to do so just by their nature of wanting to help people, which is important to note.

I know that our minister and–is –responsible for workplace safety and health has certainly wanted to move ahead on this and to ensure that all members of the Chamber would support something like this knowing that the background behind what has happened with regard to the kind of hazards and fires and fire prevention and emergencies that have happened in the province. We want to ensure that it's a deterrent, the fines with regard to not adhering to the regulations and being in contravention of the regulations, but ensure that people who want to skirt the law that they're going to pay.

And our govern- ment believes the threat of penalties created by these new changes compel increased compliance and, in turn, they improve public safety overall for all of us. And we 've seen far too many fires take place and individuals who get–who gets called in when you get rail cars who are tumbling and crashing off the rails and catching on fire and exploding? You have fire departments and fire fighters who are asked to come and put these fires out, but also are putting their life at risk as a result. So, Mr. Speaker, I know that keeping workplace safety is a non -political issue.

Quite frankly, it's one that every–each and every one of us in this Chamber support no matter what pol itical stripe, and I know that this particular bill is one that for some probably hits a lot closer to home than others. But many of us have known firefighters personally who have passed away as a result of work and some of the –as a result of cancer they 'd contracted and so on.

So I know that, whatever we can do as a Legislature, as a Chamber jointly and unanimously supporting firefighters in the different regulations and fines that come along with it, it's a total package and all of these pieces to a puz zle amount to a safer Manitoba. And I know, you know, since 1999 as a government we really wanted to embark on improving workplace safety and health, and we've doubled the number of workplace safety and health officers enforcing our safety laws. And being a former employee, an individual who worked

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2253 in the department of Environment and Workplace Safety and Health in the '80s and working with workplace safety and health committees and trying to work with WHMIS and all the legislation that was being brought in at that time with regard to chemicals and knowing how important workplace safety and health is to Manitobans to all workers, it's really important. I'm not going to get into the politics of whether or not the opposition supported workers who are working on roadways and what do we do about improving safety for those workers.

But I know that they will–and I'm hoping they will support that type of legislation, as well, where we're trying to help workers who are by the roadside working for us and trying to improve our highways. And there's going to be a lot more of it with the kind of money we're putting into highways, and I would just want the members opposite and the opposition to remember workplaces are everywhere.

It's where people work, and it's not just firefighters and those individuals that may be more high profile with regard to their workplaces like police officers or firefighters who put their life at risk every day to protect us. I know that our minister has been working closely and consulting and does consult with fire - fighters and others all the time, and this is something that I believe that firefighters will be very pleased with because–in fact, they believe they felt all along that, you know, the fines are so minimal that it really amounted to nothing. I mean, it was just a part of doing business.

If you'd get a fine because they wouldn't adhere to some regulation, I mean, that was–it was–well, it was ridiculous. And, you know, our minister is really wanting to ensure that this is just one more piece of the puzzle that will help–hopefully, help improve the safety of a lot of buildings in the province, because people know, then, more attention is being paid to them with regard to breaking of laws and the kinds of fines they're going to have to pay. Mr.

Speaker, in 2011, we made it mandatory for employers in specific risk industries and industry sectors with an evaluated risk potential to violence, implement viole nce prevention policies. These sectors–as I mentioned before, the workplaces vary in the province and these sectors include health care, security, police, corrections, crisis counselling, intervention, financial, pharmacy, education, public transit and tax icab services. I mean, in –and so what we've taken a look is, in 2010, we increased the fines for employers who flaunt the rules that keep workplaces safe.

And what we're trying to do now is trying to improve–excuse me for that –what we're trying to do is improve workplaces overall. We've accomplished a lot, the new minister has really done her due diligence with regard to consulting with many people around the province since she's become the new minister. And this is a big file, an important one, an important department that she has, and we know that not only is she doing a great job, quite frankly, but the people out there, workers out there and employers know that she's fair. And the goal is to make all workplaces safety –or safe, and safety is paramount.

And she is a very fair individual and is willing to listen to employers and to workers to make sure that safety is paramount. And I know that this piece of legislation for our government is just another piece, again, in the puzzle that will hopefully make people think twice before they're going to break the workplace safety and health laws of this province. And it's not the be -all, end-all.

I know we've got a–we've accomplished a lot, we have more to do, and that is something that I –maybe others wish to comment with regard to this piece of legislation, but I know that –and I would hope the opposition would support this unanimously because, quite frankly, it is just another piece that will make us a lot safer no matter where we work.

And sometimes in this Chamber we don't realize the kind of work that's going on out there, and yet we should, and a lot of people work at very dangerous professions handling chemicals just in the industry that they're in, whether it's construction or other workplaces, and they need our support. They need each and every one of the MLAs in this Chamber's support to ensure that they know that they want to be able to go home safe to their families, to their children, to their grandchildren at the end of the day and be able to enjoy a great life in Manitoba.

And yet we are–as a province, I believe, we're held high with regard to where we stand on workplace safety and health; workers across the country know that we are standing up for them. People in the United States, as I mentioned b efore, the firefighters in the United States take a look at Manitoba and we're a beacon –a shining beacon with what can be done when a government makes up their mind to help workers, help firefighters address

2254 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2014 cancer and other illnesses that they've contracted as a result of their work. And, Mr. Speaker, I'll conclude by just saying you were a champion on this, you were a champion on this from day one in 1999 when we became government, you raised this as a workplace safety and health critic. I know there are a number of others who sat in opposition in the '90s and you raised this and we moved on many, many issues with regard to firefighters. We'll continue to do a lot more in the future but this is just another piece that needs to be addressed.

And I'm real ly pleased our Minister of Labour has brought this forward because there are too many, regrettably, out there that want to skirt the law, and the fines were so minimal that it just didn't amount to anything.

And that was just really –I believe, just the lack of respect for the people who are working in those workplaces, just to flaunt workplace safety and health laws like that, you know, they need to pay. * (15:40) And yet, thank goodness that the vast majority of our employers are great companies, great corporations, great citizens that give back to the community, volunteer, donate of their time, donate money financially to many causes. But there are some, whether it's because–well, who knows why?

There is no excuse to be skirting the law with regard to workplace safety and health and issues related to fire and fire regulations. And so I would just say, in conclusion, I just thank you for the opportunity to speak and I just want to say thank you to a lot of the members who have spoken already with regard to this issue, because it is really important. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is there any further debate on Bill 10 at this time? No? As previously agreed, this matter will remain standing in the name of the honourable member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson).

Bill 18–The Business Practices Amendment Act (Improved Consumer Protection and Enforcement) Mr. Speaker: We'll now proceed to call for debate on second readings, Bill 18, The Business Practices Amendment Act (Improved Consumer Protection and Enforcement), sta nding in the name of the honourable member for Tuxedo. Is there leave for this matter to remain standing? Bill 18? An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Speaker: No? Leave is denied? Leave is denied. Mr.

Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I'm very, very pleased to speak to Bill 18 today and The Business Practices Amendment Act and talk about some of the issues in consumer affairs over the years. And you know, it was, I believe, 1970 when the Schreyer government was–after they were elected in June 25th, 1969–1970, I think, was the largest legislative agenda ever in the history of Manitoba. And one of the laws that they brought in at that time was the Consumers' Bureau, and that was a brand new approach to Consumer Affairs at that time.

And over the years, people took advantage of the Consumers' Bureau good offices to resolve consumer issues.

But, within 10 years or so, there was a recognition that the Consumers' Bureau didn't have teeth, sort of like some of those Conservative opposition members here, and they–what the process was was that if a person made a complaint –a consumer complaint to the Consumers' Bureau– the Consumers' Bureau would engage in an effort to resolve the issue, and that would be very time-consuming, and at the end of the day, if the business didn't want to settle the issue, there was no way of forcing the business to settle.

So what we were finding is consumers were totally frustrated getting their issues resolved, especially since the Consumers' Bureau didn't have teeth and the power to enforce. So, in approximately two thousand and– or 1988–I think it was around that time –the NDP had on the Order Paper a bill called, I believe it was, the unfair business practices act. Members for St. Paul will probably remember those days when the NDP also introduced, I think at that same time, a bill dealing with Crocus Investment Fund legislation.

And, of course, the government, unfortunately, got defeated on a vote and there we went into an election and the Filmon government was elected. And I remember the new premier standing here in the House, very proudly announcing that he was going to introduce the Crocus Fund labour legislation as something the NDP couldn't do, but he, the new premier for the Conservatives, was going to bring it in. Mr. Mohinder Saran, Acting Speaker, in the Chair

April 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2255 Another piece of legislation that they took

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-3-48b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 3rd hansardpdf 48b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	fbfee5fe8888163fd6c3b9503847978bd1b7aa3f

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