Volume XL Monday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable P.J. McNicholas Number 13 11 April 1988

The House met at 3:00 p.m. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! MR. BAIRD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Humber West. MR. BAIRD: Hr. Speaker, I am sure all hon . members would wish to congratulate the Corner Brook Royals on winning the Herder Memorial Trophy yesterday, in Corner Brook, in a well-fought series, in a well-fought game which took overtime to decide. I might add it was rather unfortunate that the international airport at St. John's was fogged in and the trophy was not there to be presented to the winning team before the 2, 000 people who were there to witness the game.

Be that as it may, the trophy, I understand, is enroute to Corner Brook today. I might also add that the sportsmanship displayed by the Caps after the game was over left nothing to be desired. It was a well-fought game, and when the game was over both teams remained on the ice to congratulate each other and I would like to conunend them. I would also like to remind the member for Stephenville (Mr. K. Aylward) that I will be waiting for my money. Thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WELLS: .Mr. Speaker. L656 April 11, 1988 Vol XL ----·---·- MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of Opposition. MR.

WELLS: the Hr. Speaker, I would like to join with the hon. the member for Humber West (Mr. Baird) to speak on behalf of ·the members of this side of the House in extending our congratulations to the Corner Brook Royals for a job well done, and our sincere congratulations to the St. John's Caps for a good series and a well-played series. I also want to wish the Corner Brook Royals well in where they go from here, presumably to the Allen Cup Finals. MR. BAIRD: Not this year. MR. WELLS: Not this year? No Allen Cup this year? MR. BAIRD: No. MR. WELLS: That is too bad. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker, I would also like to join in congratulating the Corner Brook Royals and to pick up on a conunent made by the Leader of the official Opposition. It has been my underst~ding that teams in the k.A.H.A. have had a real hard time meeting their payrolls in the past because sometimes they have been over ambitious in bringing in imported No. 13 R656

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- players. Since we have decided that. we do not want to participate at the Allen Cup in the future, I am hoping that the owners of these teams will eventually see the wisdom in perhaps cutting down on the number of imported players, making it a truly Newfoundland league in which competition is spread out as wide as possible at the most economical price. On that basis, I think it would be a great unifying factor for us. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Statements by Ministers MR. BUTT: Mr. Speaker. HR.

SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. HR. BUTT: Hr. Speaker, I wish to inform han. members that government intends to make a serious effort to eradicate, from the Island of Newfoundland, the highly contagious and fatal disease, rabies, which was recently found here for the first time in a wild animal. Before elaborating on how we intend to proceed with this action, I would first like to explain the factors that lead government to this decision. Rabies has been confirmed in only two foxes, both from the Roddickton area.

Although we do not know the extent of the disease yet, and until evidence indicates otherwise, we are assuming that the disease is localized in that -area. If it becomes widespread on L657 April 11, 1988 Vol XL the Island, it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to eliminatE!. WEtre this to happen, there would be far-reaching social and economic costs to the Province on a continual basis. is the potential human life, this considered to be the effectiveness of Although there for ·loss of prospect is remote due to post-exposure treatment.

Nonetheless, other costs associated with controlling the disease, once established in an area, are considerable. We must weigh the potential of the psychological impact of the disease on families exposed to the disease and who have to undergo treatment. Widespread vaccination of pets will be necessary. As well, there will be high costs to agriculture in the form of surveillance, investigation, quarantine and the loss of livestock. The establishment of the disease could even impair tourism and the sense of freedom people now have to enjoy outdoors and wildlife.

It would certainly reduce certain host wildlife species wherever it flared up. In Ontario, where rabies has been established for a number of years, the control programme costs approximately $15 million annually. Aside from the social and ecological costs of the disease, this government wants to avoid, if at all possible, the economic drain of a continual control programme. Eradication is the preferred option rather than a continuous control. We are also very concerned about the disease in Labrador where there have been a recent outbreak and control measures have been instituted.

However, the natural reservoir for rabies is in the No. 13 R657

------------------------ -·-··· - -· ···-· .. - - - ·- Canadian Arctic of which Labrador is a part. Because of this. and because of the immensity of that part of the Province. we have no hope of eradicating it there. on the Island. the first fox was confirmed to be a carrier of rabies on Karch 30 1 1988 after it had entered a shed and attacked a dog. The second fox was found dead at the Roddickton dump and was diagnosed as a positive carrier on April 8. 1988. Other foxes from elsewhere on the Island have been collected. tested. and all found to be negative.

This confirms our belief that rabies is localized. to date. to the area of the Great Northern Peninsula North of Gras Horne Park. in the Bonne Bay area. The action taken so far has been directed towards determining the extent of the disease on the Island and • minimizing its impact in the area of the outbreak. We intend to continue this work but. in addition. we now plan to make an attempt at stamping out the disease entirely while we still have some chance of doing so. The plan of action has been developed for immediate implementation and includes the following components:

(1) Through the Department of Health the vaccination of all people considered to be at risk;

(2) Through the Department of Rural. Agricultural and Northern Development - the expansion of a vaccination programme for pets and livestock, where necessary, which serve as a buffer between infected wildlife and people;

(3) Through the Wildlife Division the reduction of the wild fox . population in the area of the outbreak in order to limit the spread of the disease and to obtain specimens for analysis and .monitoring of its distribution; L658 April 11. 1988 Vol XL

(4) Through all three departments - a public education programme to instruct the public on how to take appropriate action when a suspect animal is encountered and on how to protect themselves, their families and their pets from potential impact of the disease. The chances of success, Mr. Speaker, in eliminating the disease from the Island are speculative at best, but it has been successfully accomplished in other areas. This government has no intention of losing the battle against rabies by default. We must endeavour, to the extent possible, to eliminate this fatal disease. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HOM.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first reaction on reading the Ministerial Statment was, obviously, the press secretary to the minister is being paid $31,000 a year, so he has to come up with press releases, and I wonder if it was not just a little bit alarming and whether or not the minister was crying wolf. However, this is an extremely serious matter, having rabies on the Island part of our Province. It is also regrettable that there have been outbreaks in Labrador.

We do not have a control programme down there, where vets go along the Labrador Coast innoculating Mo. 13 R658

----~----·--------~----------------· ---~---------- domestic pets. out, there are working on Peninsula. Will stay in the area is eradicated? As was pointed two vets now the Northern those two vets until the disease Another thing I want to mention is the fact that there are not enough people involved in wildlife management and protection in this Province, particularly in the North, in Labrador. We hope this disease does not spread to other areas of the Province.

In · his first recommendation the minister suggests the vaccination of all people considered to be at risk, then in the .fourth one he recommends an educational programme. There needs to be an educational programme going on all the time, not only on the Island part of the Province but also in Labrador where there are outbreaks ot rabies periodically. Again what we are seeing from this government, which is unfortunate, and people will criticize me for saying this, is cr1s1s management. When rabies broke out in Coastal Labrador, they sent in vets to inoculate household pets.

Now they are saying, basically, that if we had had more vets in the Province and more educational programmes, then something probably could have been done. I see no mention of stray dogs in the minister's statement. There is probably a link between foxes and stray dogs at dumps, who then pass the disease on to more domesticated pets in the area. . We are pleased that the minister has brought in this statement. We hope that these two cases are isolated, and that the disease is · eradicated soon.

We also hope L659 April ll, 1988 Vol XL that there will be an educational programme put in place immediately rather than three or four years down the road, and that there will be more vets employed in the Province and better wildlife management, so that we do not have to go on with this crisis management. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Mr.

Speaker, every once in a while you get a Ministerial Statement that you cannot really do anything with, other than say we certainly share wi.th the government . the feeling of seriousness about this outbreak of rabies, and we certainly hope that the measures being put into effect will be effective and that we wUl be able to eradicate rab.tes on the Island. I wish, then, the concerned all the best the veterinarians who working at it. departments of luck and are also The only minor problem that I would suggest is on the second page.

They talk about the problem of never being able to eradicate it in Labrador, as part of the Canadian Arctic. I would suggest, perhaps, the department may look at stepping up the efforts on the Labrador portion just to make sure that we do not have a recurrence of this kind of outbreak, if we are successful enough to eradicate it on the Island. No. 13 R659 .... ~ - ·- ·-· ---... _ _,..._ __ . ___ .... ,.. .... _ ...... - ------·r-- ... · -~···-- -· .. _ .... ____ .____ _ .. , ... _..~ .. ~,. .. -.. -·,.·---- _ .....

Hr. Speaker, I have nothing detrimental or positive to say about the statement other than it covers the at"ea quite well, and I congratul,ate the ministers involved. HR. HEARN: Hr. Speaker. HR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. MR. HEARN: Thank you, Hr. Speaker. In the Budget Speech delivered on Karch 29, 1988, my colleague, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Windsor), announced the funding of a Distance Education Pilot Project.

This exciting, new initiative by the Department of Education is being undertaken to address the needs of students in small schools in rural areas of this Province, and will complement other measures such as the increased school tax equalization grants, and additional salary allocations. Many small schools offering the senior high school progranune are unable to provide the variety of specialized courses that are commonly available in larger schools.

Memorial University, Marine Institute, Cabot Institute and the Fisher Institute offer many courses which require a high degree of competency in the areas of science and technology. Students who do not have access to specialized courses such as advanced mathematics and physics are at a disadvantage in pursuing these and related fields at the post-secondary level.. The successful implementation of Distance Education will mean that students graduating from small . schools in the 1990s will be L660 April 11, 1988 Vol XL better prepared to pursue careers in scientific and technological fields. Mr.

Speaker, the following courses will be made available as a result of the pilot pr,oject: Advanced Mathematics 1201, 2201, and 3201, and Physics 2204 and 3204. The Department of Education will begin its pilot project in September 1988. Students in thirteen small, remote schools located in Central, Western and Labrador regions of the Province, will be able to take advanced Math 1201 for the first time as a result of distance education technologies to be used in this pilot project. My department is committed to providing the additional, sequential advanced mathematics courses to these students.

They will be able to continue their · studies with Advanced Math · 2201, beginning September, 1989\ and Advanced Math 3201, effective September, 1990. My department will closely monitor and evaluate the implementation of Advanced Mathematics 1201 dudng the 1988-1989 school year. Physics 2204 and 3204 will be prepared for delivery through distance education as part of this project pending the successful implementation of Advanced Mathematics 1201. Kr. Speaker, a number of existing technologies will be incorporated into this distance education pilot project.

It will make use of the audio teleconference network which has been established as a result of the vision and initiative of Doctor Max ~ouse and the TeleKedicine project. The IBM compatible computers and Telewri ter peripherals will allow these students to instantaneously No. 13 R660 ---·------···-- - ··-- ·-·-~-· . -·-,.~ ... - ... -----·-...,.-~~- -~..-.:p-* ·- ·-.-...--.. ---- ·--~ ··--·--·- · -- · - ... - ----

see information written by their teacher or other students. Facsimile machines will permit assignments or tests, in students• own handwriting, to be electronically transmitted in a matter of seconds. Students may use a toll-free number to reach the distance teacher. and electronic messaging will eliminate missed calls. The distance education programmes of other provinces typically range from correspondence courses • with very little teacher-student contact, to courses which make use of similar technologies that will be used in this project.

This distance education pilot project will, however, set new standards for such programmes due to the extensive, immediate interaction that will be provided. Mr. Speaker, my Department is benefitting from a cooperative approach to the delivery of services through distance means.

The Department of Education and the Department of Career Development and Advanced Studies, through the Community College system, the Marine Institute, the Divisions of Continuing studies and Educational Technology at Memorial University, are participating cooperatively with the TeleMedicine Centre at the Health Science Complex to provide an enhanced, expanded distance network" The interaction that is possible through the audio teleconference network, developed as a result of the Telemedicine project, is of paramount importance to the deli very of quality learning experiences.

As a result of this mutual cooperation and sharing of resources, a greater number of ·people can be served in L661 April 11, 1988 Vol XL ----------- _______ , __________ _ communities that did not previously have access to distance education services. The small school · will likely become a community learning centre.

Students will be able to enroll in a wider variety of courses; fishermen will be able to participate in courses from the Marine Institute; adult literacy can be improved in rural communities; and teachers in small rural schools and other community residents can participate in courses offered by Memorial University of Newfoundland. My colleagues in Cabinet applaud this cooperation, and hope to see a formalization of this partnership so that distance education technology can be accessible to an even greater number of rural communities in this Province.

The Report of the Small Schools Study Project recommended that a wider· range of senior high school courses be offered to small schools and that a greater use of technology be made in programme delivery. The distance education pilot project is clearly a positive indication of my Department•s commitment to improve the educational opportunities available to students in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hear! flffl . nRr.!("R~~ Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Strait of Bell Isle. MR. DECKER: Mr.

Speaker, of course I commend the minister and his department for finally seeing the potential in distance education. As a No. 13 R661 '---·- --···-·-- ·------·-- -- ----····

" people, we have reached a stage whe~e there is no longer any excuse for not teaching biology in St. Julien's, or for not teaching chemistry in Noddy Bay, or for not teaching physics in Red Bay. I compliment the Department for finally - finally - entering the Twentieth Century. I say finally, Mr. Speaker, because if there is any crl tlcism that I have of the minister and his department, it is why did it take the Department of Education, and this particular administration, so many years to wake up to the reality of the twentieth century. This technology, Mr.

Speaker, has been available for years; telemedicine was practiced in Roddickton, at the Grenfell Nursing Station, in the 1970s, Mr. Speaker, and here we we are, in 1988 , and we have not yet gotten beyond a pilot project, and we are still only talking about thirteen schools. Well, St. .Julien • s and Croque still are not being taught a decent level of mathematics or physics or chemistry or biology, and the list goes on. Distance education has been a fact of life in Australia since back in the 1950s, Mr. Speaker. In the 1960s Memorial University had one of the best extension departments in the world.

Even today they have contracts in Asia where some of our techniques are being taught in Asia, and we are only having these techniques used in rural Newfoundland in 1988. The minister should be ashamed of himself to get up i.n this House today and talk about a pilot project which should now become a fait accompli; we should have now reached the stage. Five or six years, when high school education ·was revamped and they brought in L6.62 April 11, 1988 Vol XL Grade XII, where they took a three-year programme and spread it over four years, if they had been looking at some progressive teaching then, Mr.

Speaker, the students from outport Newfoundland who have attended Memorial University for the past five or six years would not have been sacrificed as they have been. Because it is a .fact of life, Mr. Speaker, if you come from st. .Julien's, or if you come from Roddick ton, even, that you cannot touch physics or math or chemistry or biology at the university, the reason being that this government has stuck its head in the mud for the past ten years instead of trying to move with the reality of the times. SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DECKER: Mr.

Speaker, I commend them fo~ finally waking up, but I ask, Why did they sleep so long? I could not leave this statement without referring to page one, where the minister talks about this programme complementing othe~ programmes: For example, the tax equalization grants. Now, let us not be deceived, Mr. Speaker. The tax equalization programme is as totally different from this distance education as chalk is from cheese. Thet"e is a lot potential for distance education.

There is no potential for the tax equalization p~ogramme unless the minister is prepared to do what we on this side of the House have been saying for years, that we abolish the school tax system as we have it and bring in a system for funding our schools which is more equitable. Mr. Speaker, I commend the No. 13 R662

minister on finally getting in on distance education, but do not try to make Newfoundlanders believe that the equalization grants, which require at least $12 million to have some semblance of equality, are in any way connected with distance education. It is a totally different programme, and do not try to confuse the issue by using both programmes in the same breath. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LONG: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. John's East. MR. LONG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We, for our part, welcome the initiative, inasmuch as it is something that is overdue. t am sure, for the thirteen schools that will be involved, it is a pilot project that they will look forward to being part of. It was in teres tin to note that there was no reference to the monies being expended in the statement. I checked in the estimates and the total amount pi:"esented by the Finance Minister is $233,000.

It is hard to receive a statement like this when the minister concludes by saying that the announcement represented positive indication of the government's commitment to improve educational opportunities available to students in rural Newfoundland and · Labrador, and to receive this L663 April 11, 1988 Vol XL statement and not be aware of the crisis that has been emerging for some time in the last couple of years, facing the school system in this Province, especially the smaller schools, and not be aware of some of the comments that are consistently and with great regularity coming out in the media from people who are involved in all aspects of the educational system, teachers, administrators, parents, and even students, the cry for more support for the rural schools, to close the gap between the rural schools· of the Province and those in the urban areas.

It seems that what this statement does not include is a vision of any kind of integrated approach by the Department of Education, and by the government, to address fundamental inequities that exist in the school system in this . Province. I think what we see here in this announcement is an attempt to echo a theme that the Premier brought into the House in the first couple of weeks, which is a · commitment to new technology, to look to the future with greenhouses and flume tanks and helicopter simulators. Now we are going to have distance education.

But the reality is, in the education system in this Province, that students and parents and teachers are begging for more support for basic academic facilities and programmes. We have an incredibly high rate of illiteracy in this Province, and what we need is a comprehensive programme to address the basic issuses. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR. LONG: No. 13 R663

If I might conclude, Mr. Speaker? SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Sit down! MR. LONG: There is a lot more to be said yet about the crisis facing the education system, and this is hardly the last word, Mr. Speaker. Oral Questions MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition. MR. WELLS: Leader of the Mr. Speaker, on Friday last the hon. the Premier announced the government's position with respect to equal pay for work of equal value in the Public Service. Some of the media that commented on it indicated it may take some years to implement. Is this in fact so? If it is going to take those years, would the Premier explain why? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, if the hon. the Leader of the Opposition is aware of what is happening across North America and across the Western world, I guess he would soon realize that almost in every single jurisdiction where a government has announced a policy of equal pay for work of equal value and then proceeded to implement it, that in almost every case, I think, and I think most of the unions which have been involved with other governments in other jur.isdictions have agreed, that it may take a number of years · to fully implement pay equity to L664 April 11, 1988 Vol XL reach the goal of equal pay for work of equal value.

The main restriction which would stand in the way of doing it immediately, of course, would be money. We hope that when- we establish the committees with the various unions and identify where discrimination does exist, and then determine the extent of the discrimination, we will be able to negotiate with the respective unions an orderly and expeditious movement to~ards full pay equity, or equal pay for work of equal value. The length of time it will take will be determined by tbe negotiations between ourselves and the various union leaders. MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the r.eader of the Opposition. MR. WELLS: Does the government intend to take steps to implement it generally in the Province, not just in the public service? And if so, what are those steps? PREMIER PECKFORD: At the present moment, Mr. Speaker, we have indicated, the President of Treasury Board (Mr. Simms) and myself, that we intend to try to get our own house in order first.

Undoubtedly over the next few months we will be talking to the Economic Council of Newfoundland, to the Board of Trade, and to other Chambers of Commerce around the Province, indicating to them exactly what it is we are implementing and what we are now doing. Hopefully our leadership in this area will indicate to the private sector that this is an issue whose time has come and that they will, over Mo. 13 R664

time, be able to implement the same kind of policy. I think we wi~l use that approach. We have done a fair amount of work on this both from the public sector point of view and the private sector point of view, and we do understand that there are some difficulties in Ontario, which is the only province which has moved in a proactive manner in the private sector on this policy and that there are a range, a multiplicity of problems, and they are very complex.

So I think our first move in that direction, the private sector, would be to sit down and talk to the Economic Council of Newfoundland and other representative bodies throughout the Province", have a dialogue on it and then see where we go from there. Meanwhile, we will move ahead as quickly as we possibly can, · immediately, to start implementing it in the public service. SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the bon. Minister of Transportation (Kr. Doyle).

The minister is aware that there have been some suggestions of political interference in approving road construction and paving projects by his department. He is aware of the Auditor General's Report in 1987, which suggested that the minister, in effect, would clean up his act. L665 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL Will the minister tell the House whether or not his department intends to adopt the recommendations of the Auditor General concerning written policies, procedures and guidelines? Will the minister tell us whether or not he plans to do what the Auditor General is asking? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, I indicated to the House of Assembly a couple of weeks ago, when speaking on this particular issue, that the department does have a listing of all roads within the Province that we use periodically to determine what allocations are going to be made and what roads are going to be upgraded.

At the same time I indicated, of course, that the department was in the process of putting in place a long-term and long-range plan to do exactly what the Auditor General had indicated, that there would be a listing of roads and what priori ties we use in making these allocations. That has already been stated a couple of weeks ago. MR. DECKER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. .MR • SPEAKER: The hon. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. DECKER: Mr.

Speaker, I am not sure if the minister is answering the question or not, but it would seem to me he is trying to pretend that he has already done what the Auditor General asked, which makes me question the block funding. So I ask the minister: If he is No. 13 R665

accepting this recommendation of the Auditor General, when does he plan to brtng in that specific list of the roads which he plans to pave and upgrade this year so that the House and the people of Newfoundland can have an opportunity to debate it? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, the capital programme has not been dealt · with yet totally and completely within the department, so it is impossible for me to bring in a list of what projects are going to be undertaken this year.

As soon as these projects are finalized and the recommendations made to Cabinet and Cabinet has been given the opportunity to deal with these recommendations, then it will be made public as it is every single year, Mr. Speaker. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. Barbe. MR. FUREY: Hr. Speaker, I have a question for the Premier. On April 2, 1985, the Premier came to the district of St.

Barbe and made the following announcement. 'I am announcing today a $900,000 project which will pave the roads to the communities of Mew Ferolle, Shoal Cove West, Reefs Harbour, Bartletts Harbour and Castor River North this Summer,' - the Summer of 1985. Now, it was not a vague promise, Mr. Speaker. It was a specific commitment, a specific allocation of money for these specific branch roads where there · is now a crisis, where some people L666 April 11, 1988 Vol XL have been forced to get out on the highways to demonstrate and draw attention to this problem.

I would like to ask the Premier why he did not 'live up to that promise, and will he live up to it now and stand in his place and say that he will honour his commitment to to those people? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I am aware of the road problems on the Great Northern Peninsula as I am of the road problems on the Burg eo road, as I am of the road problems in Jackson's Arm and Sop' s Arm, as I am of. the road problems in Fortune Hermitage and other areas. There are many areas of the Provi.nce which deserve to have better road condittons.

We a~e getting to them as soon as we can, and in the same way we will get to the road problems in. the hon. member's district. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for st. Barbe. MR. FUREY: I am not aware that the Premier made a specific promise to those other areas, Jackson's Arm and Burgeo. That is another matter. The Premier made a specific promise - .MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FUREY: My question to the Premier is that he made a specific promise of nearly $1 million. The people up there have their children bused to Mo. 13 R666 ..

school, they are sick when they get to school, stomach sick, and these children should not be trucked like cattle. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Premier to stand in his place now and H ve up to that commitment of $900,000 that he made, personally, in front of 250 people on April 2 in st. Barbe? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECXFORD: Mr. Speaker, that question that the asked earlier. is the same hon. member As I have indicated to him we are aware of the road problems in his district, and in particular the communi ties that he just mentioned, and we will get to them as soon as we can. MR.

FUREY: A final supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. MR. FUREY: Mr . Speaker, I draw to the attention of the Premier six young people who came here today, all the way from Bartletts Harbour and New Ferolle. They drove 700 kilometres. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, my question is would the Premier agree to meet with them for ten minutes sometime this afternoon? KR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I do not organize my

schedule in the House of Assembly · and I will not agree to meet with L667 April 11, 1988 Vol XL them this afternoon. I have spoken to the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Doyle), and over the next day or so he would only be too happy to sit down with them and go through the problems they have. He is the minister responsible for roads in the Province and over the next day or so he indicated that he would ensure that he met with them and reviewed the problems they are experiencing in their district. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, would final supplementary? MR.

SPEAKER: you permit a The hon. the member for Burgeo - Bay d'Espoir. MR. GILBERT: My question is for the Premier as well, and it is from the 6000 people who· live in Burgeo, Ramea, Gray River and Francois. They know that during the last three years his government has spent $120 million on roads in this Province, and they know that if 5 per cent of that - $6 million - was spent on the Burgeo road, they · would have approximately one third of the Burg eo road paved. Now, the people of that area would like to know, Mr. Premier, if you will tell this hon.

House what is the reason for the government's decision to withhold funding from the Burgeo Road for the last three years? PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECXFORD: Mr. Speaker, let me remind the hon. member, before I answer, and also the previous speaker, the No. 13 R667

member for the district of St. Barbe, that since this party came to power in 1972, there were $32,262,000 spent on the Great Northern Peninsula. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: In the han. member's case of Burgeo, there was close to $30 million spent on road work over the last ten years. Let me also remind the han. member for Burgeo - Bay d'Espoir that contrary to statements that perhaps he has made, I am not sure, but other local residents of Burgeo have made, and said we have done nothing for them, we have contributed $13.9 million to the fish plant.

There is no other fish plant in Newfoundland that has $13.9 million contributed to it by the provincial government. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: So when the people of Burgeo say that, it was this government that kept the fish plant in Burgeo open all these years, right up until last year when National Sea finally agreed to buy out part of the shares that we had in it, that some $13.9 million of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians taxpayers' money went into Burgeo, plus the $30 million for the road that they did not have.

May I also remind the bon. member for Burgeo - Bay d • Espoir that whilst I agree that the Burgeo Highway should be paved, I also agree that the roads on the St. Barbe Coast should be paved. I also agree that in the Strait of Belle Isle district, the road from Roddickton across the Great Northern · Peninsula is a much older road L668 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL than the Burg eo Road, and I am sure that they would want to see that paved in the next year or two , and perhaps sooner than the Burgeo Highway given that it is a lot older and also serves 3,000 or 4,000 or 5,000 people.

So I will just say. to the bon. member that we will get to the Burgeo Road as soon as we can with the resources that we have available. MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the han. the member for Burgeo - Bay d'Espoir. MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker, I have heard that answer before. The Premier seems to be locked in history about the money he spent in Burgeo, but it is a rather important resource area. But it is now a fact that there are negotiations ongoing between the Province and the federal government for a new highways agreement, to do away with the railway and take some money for our highways.

Now there has been a leak in the agreement, which said that in the first three years of that - KR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. GILBERT: My question is, Mr. Speaker, that in the first three years of that agreement the Burgeo Road is going to be left out. So the people of Burgeo would like to know the reason why the Premier and this government had decided to eliminate Burgeo from the first three years of this agreement? No. 13 R668 t- -

•. --......, .. tdds-..,:,.,...'nictb' 51 w'"'8m)op ' ' > r ·"" t • y •w-q %* ' rntrri ·H • enr - r:C'"::1:: t - WZ) ' • PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Th~ hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, that question is completely out of order because there is n6 agreemnt. So the whole premise of the hon. member's question is. false. MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. MR. GILBERT: Tt has been stated publicly, by poll ticians and Joe Price, the MP for the district, that there is an agreement in place. Mr. Price has also said that the - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

GILBERT: provincial government are not going to pave it now because there was a Liberal elected. Will the Premier now meet with the people of Burgeo and tell them directly what is his decision regarding paving of the Burgeo road and what are the long-range plans for the Burgeo road? Will the Premier meet face to face, man to man with them? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, it is not a question of me meeting face to face with anybody. I have not been known to ·be backward in coming forward on L669 April 11, 1988 Vol XL that, Mr.

Speaker, over the last nine years. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: The issue is one that the hon. member is operating under false illusions. If the hon. membe~ wants to believe what his MP tells him, fine, he should go and talk to his MP, if that is where he is getting his information. All I can say to the hon. gentleman is that there is no agreement as it relates to the closure and abandonment of the railway.

There have been talks ongoing for the last several weeks, or more than several weeks , I suppose, on the matter, but there has been no resolution and no agreement between the two governments. So what the hon. member is talking about is just puffery and untrue statements. There has been no negotiated agreement on it. It is still up in the air. Now, whethe~ the bon. member wants to believe that or not is another matter.

The Minister of Transportation this morning, as I understand it, has telegrammed the people of Burgeo and agreed to meet with them, to go through the concerns that they have, and I guess the Minister of Transportation is waiting for an answer from these people. That is why we have a Cabinet here. I am not afraid to meet with anybody anytime, but it is not a question of if t am man enough to meet with this one or man enough to meet with that one. That is not the issu·e. The issue is, are we going to be rational human beings here, meet with the representatives of the government No. 13 R669

who are responsible for these things, bring their concerns to the minister, and sit down and say, 'Look, we have a problem here and we want some attention paid to it' • the same way as the people from Fortune Hermitage, down around Belleoram and St. Jacques and Coomb's Cove and so on are looking for road work, the same way as the member for Humber Valley (Hr. Woodford) does about Jackson • s Arm, which has had an unpaved road for twenty-five or thirty years.

I have a road in my own district, from Harry's Harbour to King • s Point, that has been a dirt road for thirty-five years, and I have been a member since 1972 and have not got it paved. What a terrible member I am! The member from Fortune Hermitage (Hr. Simmons) knows the road I am talking about, I am sure, from Harry • s Harbour to King • s Point, because he has · driven over it, I guess, just as often as I have. It is a dirt road.

I have to say, while I am on my feet, that I have been in every part of the Province over the last fifteen or twenty or twenty-five years, and there are a lot of areas that are in desperate need. In New World Island, as I look at the member for Twillingate (Hr. W. Carter). Fortune - Hermitage is perhaps one of the worst areas for some road conditions. Perhaps one of the worst road condition areas of the Province is in Fortune - Hermitage. So there are a lot of them. MR. MATTHEWS: We will have to get a good member for down there. PREMIER PECKFORD: Burgeo, sure. Exactly!

But it is not fair of the member nor of the · people of Burgeo to try to paint L670 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL the picture that we are not doing anything for Burgeo. If the members opposite had as much money as Burgeo has gotten over the last fifteen years from this government, they would have all the roads paved. SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Fortune - Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: Well, Hr. Speaker, I have a question on the same subject, roads, and it relates to my district.

I thank the Premier for saving me one of the questions, because it indicates to me that the message has gotten through very clearly to the Premier. He has mentioned a couple of the roads, or one

section of the road, the Poole's Cove-Coomb's Cove section. I want to draw attention as well to three others: Hermitage-Seal Cove, Harbour Mille-Little Harbour and also English Harbour East-Grand Le Pierre. I wanted to raise the last one with the Premier, because surely, if I may call his attention back to the question that my colleague from St. Barbe put to him, I wonder would the Premier, apart from talking about scarce resources and the need to apply money in various places and to get to it as quickly as we can and that kind of thing, address the question of how far his word goes these days? HR. TOBIN: Better than yours did when you No. 13 R670

came to Petite Forte. SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR . . SIMMONS: Just hold for a moment now! SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, there is an important issue here that the Premier can slough off or he can respond to. AM HOM. MEMBER: He has answered. HR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: No, he has not had a change yet, his colleagues will not give him a chance: I am trying to give him a chance. MR. SIMMS: What is the question? MR. SIMMONS: Here is the question, I say to my cousin. Here is the question. SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SIMMONS: In 1979, when the Premier was in English Harbour East, they took him aboard the cab of a pickup and went up the road, and when he came back down the road, he got in the back of the pickup and made a little speech, a speech much in parallel to what my friend from St. Barbe described to us, Mr. Speaker, in which he undertook- MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! L671 April 11, 1988 Vol XL MR. SIMMONS: Here is my question, Mr. Speaker. I ask the Premier, given that he undertook in 1979, to - MR. SIMMS: He was only new then. MR. SIMMONS: I have all the time in the world. MR. SPeAKER: Order, please! MR.

SIMMONS: Given that in 1979 the Premier undertook then, as he did in St. Barbe, to have that English Harbour-Grand Le.Pierre Road paved within a fixed time - I believe in that case he said two years - can the Premier address the question of what does his word mean out there when he makes a commitment to the people of Newfoundland about the expenditure of public money? Can he respond to that directly? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Hr. Speaker, the way the hon. member for pontificates really! Fortune-Hermitage over credibility, SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER PECKFORD: People in glass houses should not throw stones. And I do not think I shall even go any further in trying to respond to what the member for Fortune-Hermitage is saying. I do not think it would grace the House to respond any further to questions of that sort, especially from that hon. member. Mo. 13 R671

KR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker. KR. SPEAKER: A supplementary the hon. the member for Hermitage-Fortune. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, there are no categories of members here. I put a direct question to the Premier about whether the people of English Harbour East and Grand Le Pierre can take him at his word. Now, if he wants at some point to debate the relative credibility of members I will take him on on that one any day at all. SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! KR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Transportation (Hr. Dawe) talking about people keeping their word.

The Premier said - I am sorry, the minister, soon to be Premier, said on March 3 that he would go up to that particular stretch of road within ten days. It is now more than a month. I ask the minister is he intent on keeping his word and can he inform the House as to how soon he expects to do that? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DOYLE: Hr. Speaker, when I met with the particular group that the bon. gentleman refers to I did indeed tell them that I would be visiting that particular area within a ten day period.

However, shortly · after that, a couple of days after L672 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL that, the Deputy Minister became hospitalized and has been in hospital for the last three week period and he wanted to accompany me on that trip, Hr. Speaker, to have a look first hand at the problems because he is the new Deputy Minister of Transportation. The people of that area have been contacted to that effect. They have been told what the circumstances are and that we will be visiting the area as soon as the deputy minister is back on his feet again. KR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. KR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Menihek. KR.

FENWICK: My question, Mr. Speaker, is for the Minister of Labour (Mr. Blanchard). It has to do with the inc~ease in the minimum wage announced a month ago today. I think myself, along with the tens of thousands of people working at the minimum wage, were very disappointed to see an increase from $4 to $4.25 an hour, a rate over the last three years of approximately 2 per cent a year.

My question to the minister is this: Since the Labour Standards Tribunal spent what appear to be a couple of years making a very exhaustive study, would he confirm to us that this very small increase in the minimum wage and the date at which it becomes effective is a recommendation of the report given to the minister by the Labour Standards Tribunal? MR • SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Labour. MR • BLANCHARD: Mr. Speaker, I do not have the No. 13 R672

document in front of me now but my recollection is that there were recommendations for increases in the m~n~mum wage in two stages. One was back last Fall, I think it was October 1, but because of delays in the report being looked at we passed that date and we have implemented what amounts to just over a 6 per cent increase in the minimum wage. I would refer the bon. member to a document from I think it is CCH Canadian Limited, which gives all of the minimum wage rates in Canada and our minimum wage at $4.25, is among the upper limits of minimum wages· throughout Canada.

We have to cut the cloth according to the garment, Mr. Speaker. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. KR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: In the same two paragraph press release put out, the minister indicated that the remainder of the board's recommendations are still being reviewed and the decision on the remaining recommendations will be made within the next week or so, and that is over a month ago which will mean we are three weeks overdue.

The question I have for the minister is: Since we have a two-tiered minim~T. wage in which many women working as domestics are making even less than that - and as I understand it there minimum wage has not been raised - and since there was an endless number of recommendations which would have put the minimum wage on an escalator clause, a system to bring it up, could the minister indicate to us when is he going to · get around to implementing some of L673 April 11, 1988 Vol XL these other recommendations on the minimum wage, all of which are at least three weeks overdue by his own press release? MR.

BLANCHARD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour. MR. BLANCHARD: Mr. Speaker, it is not a case of getting around to it, as the hon. member for Menihek (Mr. Fenwick) states. I do not think I tied myself down to a time frame. I would not want, Mr. Speaker, to fore-lead Cabinet. The thing was looked at in Cabinet . There are some questions with respect to the recommendations made in the report as to whether they would stand the test of the Charter of Rights, and that has to be looked at in the legal context. My understanding, Kr. Speaker, is that that now is pretty well completed.

And hopefully, within a short pet"lod of time, I cannot tell the member the exact time, but within a week or so that will be done. MR. FENWICK: A final supplementary. KR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. MR. FENWICK: This is a

preamble to my supplementary: Would the minister be willing to table the recommendations of the Labour Standards Tribunal, the report? The other one is that we know the minister from his long tenure as Deputy Minister of Labour, and we know that he has a compassionate heart and as a strong feel.ing for those who are less advantaged in our society. Would the minister stand in his place and tell us No. 13 R673

whether or not this 2 per cent a year increase in the minimum wage, and the fact that no increase at all was given to domestics, is in line with his own feelings about what the minimum wage should be and how it should be raised in a compassionate society such as ours? MR. BLANCHARD: Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER:. The hon. the Minister of Labour. HR. BLANCHARD: Mr. Speaker, I am no so sure that type of ridiculous question commands a logical r:esponse. My feeling has nothing to do with it, Mr. Speaker.

We have to look at the recommendations of a tribunal that is made up of representatives from both labour and management with an independent chairperson, and we also have to look, I guess, at what impact any increase in the minimum wage will have with respect to jobs in the lower paid categories. And there comes a point, I suppose, Mr. Speaker, of saturation. Nobody on this side of the House is saying that $4. 25 an hour is a great hourly rate or anything like that, but it has been looked at, in relation, I guess, to, as I said, the impact that lt has on jobs. And that is what we have done. MR. HISCOCK: Mr.

Speaker. HR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Eagle River. HR. HISCOCK: My question is to the Minister of Transportation concerning the condition of roads in the Province. Paradise River, in the · district of Eagle River, has a L674 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL $2.5 million airstrip and the people of the community cannot get to the airstrip because there is no road. The community of Pinsent Arm does not even have a path or a road, and the community of Norman Bay, on the Coast of Labrador, does not have a road either. Those two communities are · small but they st.ill need roads.

Could the Minister of Transportation inform this House if there is any money allocated, particularly when the Paradise River road is already surveyed and has been promised, by the way, by two former Ministers of Transportation? Is there any money allocated in this year's budget for the Paradise River road, and is the department also looking at the possibill ty of doing some surveying for Northern Bay and Pinsent Arm for next year? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DOYLE: With respect to the survey work, Mr.

Speaker, I will have to take that question under advisement and get ·back to the hon. gentleman a little bit later on. But with respect to the ·road itself, as I have indicated to other members today, government has not yet dealt with the capital programme, and when the capital programme is dealt with the hon. member will know if any allocations are made for that area. MR. HISCOCK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Also, in the Department of Transportation there is a head No. 13 R674

o+Xcz urn,:: e •e =-t u•- H il:e trr;..,e -ma= c::s z ·n called Small Local Road Boards, and $50, 000 was allocated for the full Province. Under that, Mr. Speaker, come the communi ties of Black Tickle, Charlottetown, St. Lewis and other communi ties in my district. PREMIER PECKFORD: Cape Charles. MR. HISCOCK: Exactly. The Premier knows them and he can rattle them off, but out of sight is out of mind, is it not? So, Mr. Speaker, $50,000 this Province allocates for local roads, and it is not realistic. SOME HON. MEMBERS: A supplementary, Mr.Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. HISCOCK: Mr.

Speaker, $50,000 is not much to do all the local roads in the Province, let alone the ones I mentioned. Will the minister undertake to make sure that sufficient money will be allocated to those Local Road Boards, which have to do it by pick, shovel, wheelbarrow and whatever other tools they have, and that at least some will be allocated to communities of Black Tickle and other communities along the Labrador Coast? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. Transportation. MR.

DOYLE: the Minister of The $52,100 that we make available to these eighteen local road boards in the Province is not meant to do any great deal with substantive upgrading or paving projects in any part of the · Province. It is only to be used L675 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL for various honorariums for people who have to look after small community roads, very small community pathways. Again, I cannot indicate that to the bon. gentleman, I can only repeat what I said a couple of minutes ago.

I cannot indicate to him what monies are going to be made available for that area until the capital programme is announced publicly, which it will be very shortly, and at that time he will know what allocations are going to be made to the various areas of the Province. MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has elapsed. Notices of Motion PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. · MR • SPEAKER: The bon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, ..

An Act To Amend The Canada - Newfoundland Atlantic Accord Implementation (Newfoundland) Act ... (Bill No. 32) MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Justice. MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, ..

An Act To Amend Certain Acts Having Regard To The Canadian Charter Of Rights And Freedoms ... (Bill No. 33) No. 13 R675

MR. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Consumer Affairs. MR. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act Respecting The Purchasing Management Association Of Canada." (Bill No. 30) Answers to ouestions for which Notice has been Given MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Social Services. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, in response to a question on the Order Paper from the member for Port de Grave regarding the car attached to the Minister's office, it was purchased on the February 6, 1985.

It is a 1985 Chev Impala at a cost of $12,047 in accordance with the procedures of the Government Purchasing Agency which purchased the car. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Northern Development. MR. WARREN: Hr. Speaker, I want to give an answer to a question asked by the hon. member for Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland) on March 15, Question No. ' 15, on my whereabouts from L676 April 11, 1988 Vol XL November 25 to December 18 . Mr. Speaker, it is a bit lengthy, so I will go through it. On Wednesday, November 25 , I departed St. John • s for Goose Bay.

I met with the staff of our office in Goose Bay. On Thursday, November 26 , I departed Goose Bay. I went to Hopedale where we transferred a number of government houses to individuals. I returned to Goose Bay the same day. On Friday, November 27, I departed Goose Bay for Labrador City and Wabush where I met with several groups. On Saturday, November 28, I was a guest speaking at the Firemen's banquet in Wabush. On sunday I arrived back in st. John's. The total cost of the trip was $1,469.12. On Monday, November 30, I was travelling within the st. John's area. On Tuesday, December 1, I departed St. John's for .

Goose Bay. I met with wildlife officials and the minister regarding the Mealy Mountain caribou herd. Hr. Speaker, at that time we were advised by the wildlife biolog,ists that the herd could sustain a hunt of up to 200 caribou. On Wednesday, December 22 and several other days, Mr. Speaker, I had ordinary office routine. If the bon. gentlemen want to know what the ordinary office routine is, I will just refer to December 1. I got out of bed roughly around six o'clock in the morning. I had my breakfast at seven. I left and went to the office at eight o'clock. I arrived in the office at quarter to nine.

I left the office for the airport at nine o'clock. At ten o'clock I was on Air Nova to Goose Bay. I have another seventeen days No. 13 R676

k ' 'MY ' dev-f>• • ·h~·-fz· wee sc=tr-?• • T br ·•a • w; .. =*'CWJ •• 1rf<Stc • - q • ?Y' 1 ' GJ'b>re G 1 ' < • I '£ c C' e zc• ) H J 1 here. So, Mr. Speaker, on December 3 I had a routine meeting with various ministers and people from Labrador. On Friday, December 4, I had routine office work. On Saturday, if the hon. gentlemen wants to know what I was doing, I was home resting. On Sunday I went to church. I was back in the office again on Monday, Mr. Speaker. On Wednesday, December 9, I departed for Goose Bay and I came back the same day, a total cost of $558.20.

On December 10 I was working in the office all day, meeting with various ministers. On Friday, December 11, I again was working in the office all day. On Saturday again I was home resting with the family. On Sunday I went to church again. Monday was a regular, routine office day. On Tuesday, December 15, it was another regular office day. On Wednesday, December 16, it was another regular office day, and on Thursday, December 17, I went Christmas shopping. Mr. Speaker, on Friday, December 18 I was guest speaker at the Trinity - Placentia Development Association at Sunnyside, at a total cost of $111.65. Mr.

Speaker, as for the regular days when I was in the office, if the hon. gentleman for Naskaupi (Mr. Kelland) would like to know what I was doing in the off i ce each day, I went through my desk calendar and I did come up with details, as accurately as I could, but there were sometimes, a half an hour here and there , when I could not account for what I was doing. Thank you. ·MR. SIMMS: L677 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL Mr. Speaker. HR. SPEAKER: The bon. the President of the Council. MR. SIMMS: I wish to table an answer to the question asked of me by the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk).

I forget the date on the Order Paper, but it was a couple of weeks ago, respecting (1) invoices, vouchers, receipts, etc. to cover the cost of accommodations, travel, car rentals, entertainment incurred by the minister, parliamentary assistant and/or parliamentary secretary and other members of the minister's staff in the Province between the dates of November 25 and December 18, 1987, inclusive. DR. COLLINS: What went on on those days? MR. SIMMS: That happens to be the same dates as the Windsor Buchans by-election . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

SIMMS: (2) list the regions visited during that period and for what purpose? Mr. Speaker, I am happy to inform the hon. member that on Her Majesty's Serv ice on 27 day of November, one day, I went to Grand Falls to represent the government at a couple of activities which are listed here and I returned the same day. So I was gone one day on that occasion. On a second occasion I was in Corner Brook and Grand Falls for two days signing a new mill modernization agreement, meetings No. 13 R677 --~--·---'"', .... ,..,. ___ ......,_.._"'1.. -·~~-- - -- .. _..... -· ·-

with the hon. John Crosbie on a number of matters, representing the provincial government at a Grand Falls Chamber of Commerce function with respect to free trade, meetings in Grand Falls concerning forestry Capital of Canada funding and so on and so on. I am also happy to tell the hon. members that there were no expenses for travel during this period for either my executive assistant or for my press secretary or for any other staff member. That is all. Petitions MR. GILBERT: Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the m.ember for Burg eo - Bay d'Espoir. MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker, thank you.

I have a petition from 109 people of Burg eo and it is .. To The Honorable House Of Assembly In Parliament Assembled. "The petition of the undersigned residents of Canada who now avail themselves of their ancient and undoubted right thus to present a grievance common to your petitioners in the certain assurance that your Honourable House will therefore provide a remedy.

"Humbly Sheweth: "Whereas the Burgeo Road has received no upgrading or paving in the past three years, and · "Whereas the Burgeo Road is the L678 April 11, 1988 Vol XL longest continuous gravel road in Newfoundland, and "Whereas the towns of Burgeo and Ramea are contributing greatly to the economy of this Province through their primary industry, and "Whereas the cost of living and carrying on enterprise in our towns is significantly higher due to the inadequacy of the present road system; "Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to begin a program immediately to upgrade and pave the Burg eo Road.

We are disgusted with the political games being played and wish only to have our transportation problems alleviated. This will result in improvements in the economy of our area through increased tourism, more high quality fish _products being prepared here and an increase in the service sector. All of which will increase employment levels and generate even more tax dollars. "We ask only to be treated fairly and with respect and dignity." That, Mr. Speaker, is the petition from the people of Burgeo.

I asked some questions in the House today of the Premier and I got an answer back which I do not think the people expect . I do not think they were treated with the fairness, respect and dignity they wanted. Mr. Speaker, the Premier again alluded to the $13 million he ha~ invested in the fish plant in Burgeo, as if this was something exceptional, Hr. Speaker. But really, if you look at the production of the Burgeo plant No. 13 R678

¥& tfai:CifiiirxrkWrd'* .. +at •e i-=!c ·v··· n"i··t+'>Md*'·h··e.e ~ • ( ... c • 1 down through the years, you would find it is in the vicinity of somewhere around 40 million pounds of fish a year processed by that plant. I would say the return on the $13 million the Premier put in there is a very good return. The other point that he made, Hr. Speaker, was National Sea in Burgeo paid off the debt to the provincial government last year.

At that time, I suggested to the Premier that maybe the best thing he could do with that $7 million was to go to Ottawa and suggest that now they sign an agreement putting the $7 million that was paid by the plant into a fund for the Burgeo Highway and that would be the twenty-five or thirty percent that was needed by the Province to fund the paving of this road and let the federal government come up with the rest of it .. Everytime that we bring up the Burgeo Road it seems that the Premier takes this great pride in saying they put an investment in the plant. What else would you expect him to do?

You have 4 , 000 pe.ople that are living in Burgeo who depend on that plant and they are producing money for the government. They are producing new dollars. Why is this such a concern of the Premier? He should be proud that he was able to do something right for a change, and put $13 million in there to keep this viable community going. The question that we are talking about here is the Burgeo Road. The Premier seems to want to make the people of Burgeo into bad people because of the fact that they asked to have their road paved. They are not covetous, Mr. Speaker, they are asking for their · rights.

There has been no paving L679 April 11, 1988 Vol XL done on the Burgeo Road for the last three years. All they want, Hr. Speaker, is a plan put in place to pave the Burg eo Road over a period of five or seven years. They want the government to tell them, they want the Premier to go down, as a matter of fact, and tell them face to face why he has not done any paving in the last three years and what plan he plans to put in place to pave the Burgeo Road now. This is the whole deal.

I said in the question today to the Premier, five percent of the budget that has been spent for the last three years would meffi $6 million gone into the paving of the Burg eo Road, Mr. Speaker. That would have made the people of Burgeo satisfied that at least something was done. They do not want to be painted the way the Premier and the Minister of Transportation is trying to do, that they are covetous and they want the road paved at the expense of all other roads in the Province. They do not, Mr. Speaker. They want to be treated with fairness and dignity. This is what they asked for in this petition.

And they want their road done over a period of time. This is the only thing they are asking about right now. We heard the M.P. for the District say there negotiations. say the Burgeo to be included are ongoing we heard the M.P. Road was not going in the first three years of this new agreement. We know this; we have heard him say it. Now, Mr. Premier, . what .they want to know is why? The M.P. for down there said the reason was the people of Burgeo elected a Liberal M.H.A. in the No. 13 R679

last election. Mow this is the first time that a politic ian has admitted publicly that this was a political decision made by the Department of Transport and the government to fund roads in this Province. Before, they have denied this. We have told them, but they have denied that they did it. Mow we have one of their own, their federal counterpart, saying it was done and that a decision was made basely, for pol i. tical reasons. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR. GILBERT: In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the people of Burgeo want a plan in place to pave their road. SOME HOM.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR . WELLS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Opposition. MR. WELLS: the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to stand today and support the prayer of the petition and the petl tion of the people in the district of Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir, and while I am at it to express support for the same kind of a prayer, even though no petition has been presented to the House, as yet at any rate, for the people of the Great Northern Peninsula who are sitting in the gallery and watching this performance and seeing just what has been · happening.

They can judge for L680 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL "' ....... ___ ......._ ____________________ . themselves what has been happening. The people of Burgeo-Bay d' Espoir have a legitimate complaint. They make a very significant contribution to the economy of this Province. They have for some time. Yes, the government did help them with their fish plant and no doubt they are grateful to the government for that help. But that does not mean that they should be deprived .forever of the benefits for being part of this Province.

They should have a fair access to the rest of the Province and a reasonable access assured to them in the same manner as other areas of this Province do, and that means having reasonable roads over which to ship their fish products. During the last couple of weeks or so the people of Burgeo-Bay d' Espoir have been unable to ship the fish they produce because of the condition of the road. They have been Unable themselves to travel to other parts of the Province because of conditions of the road. At the same time, they see what the government has done in other districts. What was done in the district of St.

George's when the former minister was there as Minister of Transportation, when the member for that district was the Minister of Transportation? They saw what was done in Conception Bay South at Round Pond Road and they are annoyed at that. That is why they say, "Look, give us a fair break." That is all they are asking for. They are not asking that the whole budget be set aside and the entire work on the Burgeo Road be done this Summer. They are asking merely to get a start on it and to do it Mo. 13 R680

over a reasonable period of time. That is not too much for anybody to ask. It is the same with the people from Bartletts Harbour and other communi ties on the Great Northern Pen insula who are sitting in the gallery today watching this. All they are saying to this government, Mr. Speaker, is either start paving or stop promising, one or the other. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

WELLS: Nobody has asked the Premier or anybody else to promise those roads during election campaigns, but if you are going to promise them, then keep your promise or stop making those promises during election campaigns, or resign and let somebody who can, perform properly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Min.ister of Transportation. MR. DOYLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to have the opportunity to say a few words regarding this particular petition presented by the member for Burg eo-Bay d • Espoir. It is quite unfortunate too, Hr.

Speaker, that the hon. gentleman chose today to play politics and to play it to the gallery, as they do so often when people happen to be in the gallery from an area whose roads happen to be in less than ideal · conditions. This is a famous old L681 April 11, 1988 Vol XL ' a - -a=;; ploy with members Opposition, to play galleries and to play with the situation. of the to the politics Hr. Speaker, as the hon. gentleman from Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir (Hr.

Gilbert) is aware, this government has been pushing for a number of years for a greater level of federal involvement in capital funding so that these very large projects, like the Burgeo Road, can be undertaken and can be completed. I am saying there has to be a federal, cost-shared agreement on that, Hr. Speaker, because there is absolutely no way, and the hon. member is aware of this, there is absolutely no way that the provincial government can undertake a project of that magnitude on its own, costing approximately $32 million to $33 million to complete that project, out of a $40 million c::api tal program.

That is the first thing tha·t has to be clearly understood. There is absolutely no way the provincial government can undertake to complete such a large project out of its .own· $40 million capital program when that particular project costs upwards of $30 or $35 million. Mr. Speaker, the bon. gentleman from Burgeo - Bay d' Espoir stood in his place and he wondered why no work has been undertaken since 1986. Now, I do not know how dense the hon. gentleman is or how smart he is, but surely he must know that we have not had a secondary roads agreement in that period of time.

When we did have a secondary roads agreement, the Burgeo road was included in that and this government cost shared the paving of fifty kilometers of road in Burgeo. Now, for the hon. No. 13 R681

gentleman, again I will repeat, because we have not had a secondary roads agreement in that time period, no work has been undertaken since 1986. Mr. Speaker, he makes reference to the MP and the fact that the MP has indicated that work on the Burgeo road will not be undertaken for the next three-year period. Again, I will indicate to him that we do not have a secondary roads agreement in place and that it has not yet been negotiated with the federal government. So, I certainly do not know what roads are going to be included, if Burgeo road is going to be included or not.

That wil~ obviously be the topic of negotiations and discussions if and when such an agreement comes about. Mr. Speaker, I would like to .indicate to the hon. gentleman as well that the Burgeo road has always been included in the department's listing to the federal government ever since 1979 when that link was completed. Ever since 1979, whenever we sent a list to the federal government regarding what projects should be undertaken in the Province, the Burgeo road was always included.

A number of years ago, long before I became minister of this department, we sent a list to the federal government of $470 million worth of projects that we wanted to have undertaken and the Burgeo road was very, very prominent in that listing. But again, it has to be clearly • understood that the Province cannot - and I will repeat for the hon. gentleman because he keeps saying these th.ings about why has · anything not been done s.ince 1986 L682 April 11, 1988 Vol XL - again T will repeat to him, we have not had - now, 1 is ten very, very carefully - a secondary roads agreement during that period of time.

That is why no further work has been undertaken. I will keep repeating that for the hon. gentleman as long as he wants. Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. gentleman, by making statements that government is being partisan in its dealings with this particular project, is simply trying to divert attention from his own ineffectiveness. Mr. Speaker, it is difficult to understand how such statements can be justified given the fact that it was this government who cost shared the fifty kilometers of pavement on the Burgeo road, the fifty kilometers that happens to be there right now. It was this government who cost shared it.

SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DOYLE: Also, Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned a few minutes ago, any listing that we have ever sent to the federal government for road projects to be undertaken in this Province has always included the Burgeo Road. So again the bon. gentleman is just playing politics with the issue and trying, as I said a moment ago, to divert attention from his own ineffectiveness in the district of Burgeo - Bay d'Espoir. Mr.

Speaker, I know it is very frustrating for people in that community, it 1s very, very frustrating for anyone who happens to live in a community that has dirt roads or who are linked up by dirt roads. It is very frustrating to have to live in No. 13 R682 ..

those areas and these people deserve and want and need to have their roads upgraded and paved just as well as anybody else in Newfoundland. Mr. Speaker, we do have 8,600 kilometers of road in this Province and 50 per cent of that is paved at this point in time, 50 per cent out of 8,600. So we are making every concentrated effort we can to not only complete roads out of our own resources, but also to access as many federal dollars as we can. We will continue, Mr. Speaker, to do whatever we can to address the problems of the people of Burgeo - Bay d • Espoir and, indeed, the St.

Barbe district and districts all around this Province. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for St. Barbe. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise in my place to present a petition from some 200 people in the district of St. Barbe and particularly from the areas known as Castor River North, Bartletts Harbour, New Ferolle, Reefs Harbour and Shoal Cove West. Kr. Speaker, this petition also deals with the problems of dirt roads in those areas. Mr. Speaker, I heard the minister say that we on this side should not be playing to the galleries.

I want to inform the Minister of Transportation that on 5 "ay 1987, nearly a year ago, there was nobody in the galleries from St. Barbe when I asked the Premier to rise in his place and to tell me · as the member why he had not lived L683 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL • c'....-re 'f"MW'cSS J«r tzr11 ->> r- up to the conuni tment of $900,000 for those roads. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: There was nobody in the gallery that day, Mr. Speaker, when I asked the Premier specifically to deal with that issue. Let me quote from Hansard, page 1846, on that particular day.

Here is what he said: "I will have to check it out for the hon. member and get back to him. I will take the question under advisement and get back to the hon. gentleman." That was eleven months ago and I am still waiting for the Premier of this Province to get back to me about a promise that he made, not some vague promise, not some wishy-washy ifs or maybes, a specific promise, Mr. Speaker, of nearly $1 million to the people of New Ferolle, Reefs Harbour, Shoal Cove West, Bartletts Harbour and Castor River North. There is no two ways about it. There were 250 partisan Conservative supporters who heard him.

It was reported in the news, on all the media, and I should say, Mr. Speaker, and I am happy to stand in my place and say, they are now former Conservative supporters in that area. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: There is no way they can support someone who breaches a promise. This was a specific promise, Mr. Speaker. MR. BAIRD: No. 13 R683 --·------· -·_ .. _ _ __ ,__ . .. - .---.__.._ ____ ... _ ,or- .. _ ..... ___ - ·- ... ---~ · --.. ...

,,n« · d - >rt ~ We will find out when an election is called. MR. FUREY: The hon. member for Humber West (Hr. Baird) says, 'We will find out when the election is called.' Boy, will he find out! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Oh, oh! KR. FUREY: Call the election and you are welcome to my area anytime. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, not only did the Premier say, 'I am going to commit this amount of money', a specific amount, for those specific roads. Let me read a quote that the Premier went on to say to refute an argument that some other parties were saying, all he had was oil on the brain.

Well, here is what he said: ''My answer to those who dispute that I only have oil on the brain is this: I do not have oil on the brain. I have money and jobs on the brain. I have pavement, water and sewer on the brain.

I have an opportunity to prosper for our young people on the brain." Well, I would like the Premier of this Province to tell those young people, those six young Newfoundlanders who travelled well over 700 kilometers to come and hear him today, let him rise in his place today, and let the minister rise in his place and tell them how they are supposed to prosper on roads that are not fit for the jungles of Afr.ica, let alone Newfoundland, a Province in ·canada. L684 April 11, 1988 Vol XL Mr. Speaker, the grader goes over these roads and there is nothing to grade. It is down on the ballast!

The member for Bellevue, who will soon be the fo~er member for Bellevue, can laugh all he wants, but it is not a laughing matter, Mr. Speaker, when a man hits his face of the windshield after hitting a piece of rock two days ago and smashes up his eye. It is not a laughing matter, Mr. Speaker, when a man from Castor River hit a piece of ballast and broke his neck last year. It is not a laughing matter. It is a very serious, fundamental matter of justice and of what is right and proper to be done. Mr.

Speaker, this government can shirk and hide, sneak and slip around all it wants, but the public record is very clear, it is crystal ·clear! New Ferolle, the Premier said, • I will pave it; • Shoal Cove West, the Premier said, 'I will pave it;' Castor River North, the Premier said, 'I will pave it; ' Bartlet ts Harbour, the Premier said, 'I will pave it; ' and, Kr. Speaker, Reefs Harbour, the Premier said, 'I will pave it. I will commit nearly $1 (lllillion and I will pave it this Summer,• the Summer of 1985. That Summer is history and we are still living in mud and dust.

The Summer of 1986 is history and we are still living in mud and dust. The Summer of 1987 is history and we are still living in mud and dust, and this government has the gall to come into this hon. House of Assembly and ask us to support and vote a block of funds to the tune of $40 million. Only, Mr. Speaker, will we support it when we see fairness and equity and balance and decency and dignity for every single community in No. 13 R684

Newfoundland, ~ega~dless of thei~ politics. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hea~, he~! MR. FUREY: Thank you, M~. Speake~. MR. DECKER: M~. Speake~. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the membe~ fo~ the St~ait of Belle Isle. MR. DECKER: M~. Speake~, I stand up to suppo~t this petition which was p~esented by my colleague fo~ st. Ba~be (M~. Fu~ey} dist~ict. Maybe You~ Honou~ noticed that I put emphasis on the wo~d 'suppo~t • . I think it is impo~tant that when membe~s o~ ministe~s stand up in this House to speak to a petition. that they be men enough to say they stand up to suppo~t it.

All too of ten in the past numbe~ of months I have seen the ministe~, whethe~ it be the Ministe~ of T~anspo~tation (M~. Doyle), o~ the ministe~ of any othe~ depa~tment ove~ the~e, when they stand up, they take the five minutes to explain thei~ ineptitude, to explain why they ~efused to keep the poll tical p~omises that they a~e so anxious to make wheneve~ there is an election somewhere in this Province. Every time they get up they explain why they do not pave the road in Bartletts Harbour; why do they not pave the ~oad in Casto~ Rive~ No~th.

That is not the pu~ose of suppo~ting a petition. ·That is the pu~ose of trying to L685 Ap~il 11 , 1988 Vol XL p~opagate some foolish dogma which is misleading to the people of this P~ovinca, Mr. Speake~, that is not suppo~ting a petition. I am standing up, and I do not ca~e who hea~s me say it, I am standing up to suppo~t the people from Bartletts Harbour and to suppo~t the people from Reefs Harbour and to suppo~t the people from Castor River No~th. That is what I am doing.

I would like to see the minister when I sit down o~ I will sit down any time he wants me to, if he is p~epared to get up in man-fashion and suppo~t the people up the~e who are living to their knees in mud in the Sp~ing of the yea~ and their lungs fill with dust in the. Summe~ and taking thei~ life in thei~ hands eve~y time they travel over the roads , because I know the roads well. I belong to that pa~t of the Province, Mr. Speake~.

If membe~s of this House wanted to take a lesson in automotive ~epai~s I would suggest to them to take a ~ide up the Northe~ Peninsula and go out to Reefs Harbou~ and go up to Ship Cove and go into the va~ious places of the No~the~ Peninsula. The roads, Mr. Speake~, are strewn with tie rod ends, with pit man ~ods, with shock abso~bers, with muffle~s. and practically every pa~t of an automobile that is known to mankind. That is what is happening to the people's vehicles who have to t~avel ove~ those ~oads that the minister gets up and b~ags about. That is what happens, Mr.

Speaker, to people whose automobiles go ove~ that ~oad which was suppose to be paved in 1985 and 1986 and 1987. Yet a pe~son who, on the G~eat Northe~ Peninsula, goes into Co~e~ B~ook o~ whereve~ to buy an No. 13 R685

automobile, the very first thing he has to do is to come up with 12 per cent t"etail sales tax on top of the cost of his automobile. I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, and I will give the Minister of Transportation the opportunity when I sit down to get up and say that from this day forward every Newfoundlander who is forced to drive his automobile over a gravel road should be given a break on his retail sales tax. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DECKER: It is not fair that Newfoundlanders are forced to drive over the worse roads in the world and yet they are bitten by a sales tax which is totally outrageous.

Even if they did have pavement 12 per cent is an outrageous sales tax they have to pay, but they should surely be given a break when they have to take their automobiles and drive them over the worst roads in the world, Mr. Speaker. A person living on the Avalon Peninsula, if he buy a new vehicle today, he can be assured that he can get five to seven years before he has any major problems with his automobile. That is not the case for people who live in Reefs Harbour. A person who goes from Reefs Harbour who goes in and buys a new vehicle can be assured that within one year the muffler has fallen off.

It needs new shock absorbers, the tie t"od ends or the ball joints are all shot and he ends up with ·with a wreck in the matter of a year because of the kind of roads that this Minister of Transportation gets up and apologizes .for when he should be · getting up and telling how ashamed L686 April 11, 1988 Vol XL he is that Newfoundlanders drive over such year 1988. his fellow would have to cowpaths in this Mr.

Speaker, a person living in Reefs Harbour, Bartletts Harbour, Ship Cove, Raleigh, r could go on because that is where they all are on the Northern Peninsula, name practically any community on the Northern Peninsula, when he goes to get his licence renewed on his automobile, $65 or she is off the road. Thet"e is not the least bit of consideration that he has to beat up his car every time he drives in that car or that pick-up or whatever the case may be, Mr. Speaker.

What I would like for the Minister of Transportation to do today is, when he stands up, send out the word to the people of Reefs Harbour that he is going to ensure that the Premier's commitment is kept. That is one thing, the Premier's commitment is going to be kept, but in the meantime, during the next few months, while he is waiting to have that promise kept, then he is going to reduce the cost of licence plates so that people who live on the Northern Peninsula, who have to drive ovet" those rough gravel t"oads, will have a break as far as their licence plates are concerned. Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I am supporting the petition. There are no backdoors, there at"e no ifs or maybes, I am supporting the petition and I am glad to support it, Mr. Speaker. Now, let us see the Minister of Tt"ansportation not get up and apologize, but get up and support the petition. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. 13 R686 I ~~---

Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! My attention has just been drawn to this petition just a minute ago. . I must say the petition is out of order. This is the difficulty the Chair is in every time. I do not see the petition until it is pretty well presented. It states: "We, the people of Castor River North, request the Government of Newfoundland to upgrade and pave the road through our community." A petition is to the hon. House of Assembly and I think I have mentioned that on quite a number of occasions. I would have thought it would have been noted by all hon. members. So that petition is not in order. MR.

BARRY: On a point of order, Hr. Speaker. HR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon. the member for Mount Scio. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, citizens of I think there are this Province and taxpayers, electors, who have come a long way to listen to this petition and who would be very interested in listening to the response of the Minister of Transportation to my colleague's presentation and to the thrust of the petition. It is a petition, Your Honour, , whether or not is in a form that is acceptable to this House I think is a technicality.

It is unfortunate that we do not have a maybe Your Honour might give consideration to having some standard forms drafted up that · could be distributed through the L687 April 11, 1988 Vol XL HHAs throughout the Province so that we do not have this occurring time after time, where genuine concerns are not considered fully because of technical reasons. So I would suggest that the Minister of Transportation, if members on this side, I am sure they all would, would give leave, that he be given the opportunity in an equivalent time to respond to that petition. MR. SIMMS: Hr. Speaker, to that point of order. MR.

SPEAKER: To that point of order, the hon. the President of the Council. HR. SIMMS: Hr. Speaker, Your Honour obviously rightly so, pointed out that the petition was incorrectly drafted or worded, and that is Your Honour's responsibility to do that. We, as members, all have a responsibility to ensure that any petition that is presented to the House is worded in the proper fashion. The way that should be done is that all members should talk to the Clerk or some staff in the Clerk's Office to make sure that it is properly done. In this particular instance, Mr.

Speaker, I am sure I speak on behalf of the Minister of Transportation ·and members on this side that we certainly have no problem. I think the Minister of Transportation is anxious and eager to comment on what has been presented. So I guess to be technically correct leave would be required and we, for our part, are quite prepared to offer leave to let the Minister of Transportation speak.

No. 13 R687 --~-~--.... ----~__.......,.._...,.........--.... -~. - . .--oo.:--s~.._...·:--~. ~-.--- . .---- .. -~--~ ...... ---,_.., ........ ~ , ---·- .,. . ..., ... ..-.._- ,_,.,.. ,-,...,-..--~--- -·,... ,. _.,.,. .. --- · ~-r••- -..--- -- ••- --

MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, there is no point of order, but if hon. members wish by leave that the hon. the Minister of Transportation speak, that is up to the House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. SPEAKER: By leave, the hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, first of all I want to thank hon. members on both sides for leave to speak to this petition. If the hon. member for the Strait of Belle Isle is anxious to see me stand on my feet and support this petition, then he need wonder no longer. Of course, I support the petition.

I support the people of Bartletts Harbour in their efforts to have their roads upgraded and paved in their communities because, as I said on many, many different occasions, Mr. Speaker, the people of that area and indeed all areas of the Province, who happen to live on gravel roads, deserve to have their roads upgraded and paved. This government , Mr. Speaker, is very, very anxious indeed to see that work undertaken and these roads, that the honourable gentleman refers to, and many, many more gravel roads in the Province are listed for reconstruction and paving.

I cannot indicate to any hon. member in this House as to when that work will be undertaken, but I certainly do support any community, any district, no matter where they happen to be from. L688 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL It does not matter, Mr. Speaker, if they happen to be represented by a Liberal member in the House of Assembly, as hon. members sometimes like to make reference to. It does not matter if they are represented by a P.C. member. r support any community in this Province who makes representation to the government to have work undertaken in their community and I will continue to do that, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, moment about and the just to speak for a the petition itself various communities Reefs Harbour, Shoal Ferolle and Bartletts involved, Cove and Harbour, and and South, Speaker, are condition as out. Castors River North these roads, Mr. in less than ideal has been pointed In order to address the problems in Reefs Harbour, Shoal Cove and Ferolle, to upgrade roads in those areas alone, will cost in the vicinity of $2,526,000, 16 kilometers of main road and 3. 7 kilometers of local road, for a total of $2,000,526, and in Bartletts Harbour and Castors River North and South, another $1, 250, 000. So, Mr.

Speaker, we are talking about a sizable expenditure here, in the area of $3,600,000. As I have indicated to members on occasion, we have many, many needs in the Province that we would like to be able to address in any one given year. We have 8,600 kilometers of road, fifty percent of these are paved. As a government we are making every effort we possibly can to address the acute problem areas of the Province. Since 1979, for the information of the hon. gentleman, we have managed to pave 1,700 No. 13 R688

kilomete~s of road in this Province at a cost of $145 million, and we did happen to put in 233 bridges in the Province at $55 million. Mot all, as the han. gentleman would like to lead everyone to believe, not all in districts represented by membe~s on this side of the House. I would like to make hon. gentlemen aware, as well, that in the electo~ial district of st: Ba~be ever since 1972, both the p~ovincial government and the federal gove~ent have spent ove~ $30 million. M~.

Speake~. that certainly does not indicate that this Gove~ent is dealing in an unfair manner with areas that are represented by people on the opposite side of the House. I do support the petition. I support the people in Reefs Harbour, Shoal Harbour, Ba~tletts Harbou~, and Ferolle, in thei~ efforts to have this work undertaken, but I certainly cannot indicate to them today that this work will be undertaken this year, or next year or any other year, because the capital program has not been dealt with by gove~ent as yet. Mr.

Speake~, when it is dealt with, the appropriate announcements will be made and everyone will know where the money is going to be spent this year. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speake~. HR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Bellevue. HR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave today to present a petition on behalf of 186 residents of the town of North ·West Brook in Trinity Bay, in my L689 April 11, 1988 Vol XL district. The p~aye~ of the petition says: "We, the undersigned, hereby petition the House of Assembly requesting the Gove~ent of Newfoundland and Labrador to upgrade and pave the gravel road in the town of Northwest Brook.

"This road is very heavily used and services approximately 100 families in the town. Activities that lead to high vehicula~ use are: Three chu~ches that serve four towns; a community wharf and boat launch used by surrounding communi ties for fishing and recreational use; five school buses using the road four times a day; a general Post Office; a community hall with the office fo~ ~ral development serving Southwest Arm; and frequent use of heavy vehicles such as grocery t~cks and so on. " Mr.

Speaker, in supporting this petition for North West Brook I want to say that this road is probably one of the oldest roads in the Province. This

section of road through North West Brook, which is approximately a mile and a half long, used to be the old Cabot Highway and here it is not paved yet. The stretch of road that I was born on in Morman • s Cove/Long Cove, Mr. Speaker, was also the old Cabot Highway and I remember eating dust off that road from the day that I was born. I remember my father-in-law in 1949, when we joined Confede~ation, driving on the left hand side of the road and driving on the right hand side, of course, the night we joined Confede~ation. The next day the sides of the road changed. HR. BAIRD: No. 13 R689

And you joined the right party too. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, when I listened to the member for St. Barbe just now and the member for the Strait of Belle Isle and the member for Burgeo Bay d'Espoir, when I smiled, I was not smiling at the condition of their dirt roads, because I know all about it. I was smiling over the comments they were making, comparing their roads to roads in Africa and that sort of thing. In the district of Bellevue, Mr. Speaker, there are twelve miles of dirt road from Hillview, where the hon. Leader of the Opposition's brother lives, at the Trans-Canada highway in Hillview down to St.

Jones Within, there are twelve miles with not one inch of pavement. Here is another mile and a half in Adeytown, which used to be the old Cabot Highway, which is not paved. There are five miles of dirt road in Markland which is not paved, and there are six miles, Mr. Speaker, between Long Cove, Norman's Cove, and Bellevue, Thornlea, Chance Cove, the old Cabot Highway, which are still not paved. So, Mr. Speaker, I know all about dirt roads, and I know all about pavement, and I know all about how to go about getting pavement for your district.

You do not do it the way the member for Burgeo - Bay d' Espoir tried to do 1 t last week, and you do not do it the way the member for St. Barbe tried to do it last week, by trying to embarrass · government. L690 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL The member for Burgeo Bay d ' Espoi r knows, Mr. Speaker, as I know, that the road he was talking about, the Burgeo road, was bull t by the federal government. Should not the federal government also pave that same road?

What sense would it make if the federal government came into this Province and built huge schools and then said to the provincial government, 'Education is a provincial responsibility, so now you spend the other $8 or $10 million to make that school workable? • The same thing is true with the Burgeo road. It was built, as I saw the member on television yesterday admit, by the federal government which provided 90 per cent funding. Should not the member be in Ottawa trying to lobby the federal member up there to try and get another roads agreement with Ottawa to do something about the road?

The road that I am talking about here, Mr. Speaker, is provincially owned and operated. It is part of what used to be the old Cabot Highway and it is located right in the town of North West Brook in Trinity Bay. Mr. Speaker, as I stand to support th.is peti t.ion, presented by the 186 people in that small town in my district, all I ask the Minister of Transportation to do is to consider this mile and a half of dirt road when the time comes to allocate the meager funds that the minister has for the hundreds, even thousands of miles of dirt road in this Province. I am not sure of the exact figure.

I think there are more than 2, 000 miles of dirt road. MR. DOYLE: 4,000 kilometers. No. 13 R690

MR. CALLAN': 4,000 kilometers is 2,600 miles of dirt roads in this Province and in my district, Mr. Speaker, I have probably twenty-five , or thirty miles of dirt roads. Mr. Speaker, I cannot complain about the government not doing anything with my district. Last year, as I pointed out to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Wells) in caucus and my fellow caucus members - they used to be fellow caucus members in the Liberal Party - I pointed out to them that $6 million was spent last year in my district on the Trans-Canada Highway; there was a quarter of a million dollars spent in Hillview; there was another quarter of a million dollars spent between Long Cove and Thornlea and Bellevue; there was a couple of miles of pavement laid through Hodges Cove; and there was a couple of miles of pavement made through Markland. We are making steady progress, Mr. Speaker. We do not expect to get it all overnight. I do not believe, Mr.

Speaker, that all of the dirt roads in my district will be done this year, but I hope that this mile and a half of road will be paved this year because it is right next to the Trans-Canada Highway. Anybody who travels the Trans-Canada Highway will see that it is right off the Trans-Canada Highway and, of course, as is Hillview and Adeytown and a lot of the other towns. The tourists would be encouraged to visit these towns. ·. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR. CALLAN': ' In conclusion, Kr.

Speaker, I ask L691 April 11, 1988 Vol XL that this petition be tabled and directed to the department to which it relates and it is my sincere hope that something will be done with this dirt road this coming construction season. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Fortune - Hennltage. HR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I cannot think of anything that I would rather do at 5:00 o'clock on a Monday afternoon than support my friend and erstwhile colleague from Bellevue (Mr. Callan) on this project, this road for North West Brook.

In so doing, Mr. Speaker~ I must express a little astonishment, and not a little gratitude at him and towards him respectively. The marvel, Mr. Speaker, is that he said so much in that caucus. I must have been sound asleep all a hundred thousand hours of speech-making that he done in that caucus. It is amazing the things he said in that particular caucus. I am grateful to him - MR. CALLAN: You would rather have been sitting home because (inaudible) Leader of the Opposition (inaudible). SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMONS: As I keep saying in this Chamber, Mr. Speaker, I have all the time No. 13 R691

in the world. I was saying to my friend from Bellevue (Hr. Callan), I am glad to hear some of the things he told that caucus because I do not remember hearing them at the time. Mr. Speaker, also when the gentleman for Bellevue talks about MR. SIMMS: You were plotting against Leo then. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. SIMMONS: - moving from the left to the right, I understand he would have a problem with that concept.

That aside, the moving from the left to the right in terms of driving in Newfoundland, I say to him for the record, was not the day we joined Confederation, it was sometime during the war, about five years before he says it was. SOME HOM. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, what I found most instructive though in what he said was his comment about the federal government builds, therefore the federal government maintains. That is a very good concept. I am inclined to tet inventive and say, by George I think he has got it.

That is what we are saying in relation to the railway and the four-laning of the highway. I am delighted, Mr. Speaker, the member for Bellevue (Hr. Callan) not only understood that concept, but has L692 April 11, 1988 Vol XL articulated that concept. I would ask him now, Hr. Speaker, because I saw a little nostalgia for better days there at one point during his speech, and if he wants to be loyal to his former colleagues, I ask him to manifest that loyalty by getting through to the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Doyle) and the Premier the concept that my friend for Burgeo - Bay d'Espoir (Hr. -Gilbert) so well embodied in his resolution which we supported on this side, that if it comes to abandoning the railway, then let us see to it that the federal government is involved in practicing the principle that the gentleman for Bellevue just espoused; if they are going to put the money in, they also put in the money in to maintain that four-lane highway, or at least the differential cost involve~, all of which, Mr.

Speaker, -as I am sure you will agree, is very closely related to the support that I so dearly want to give for that gentleman's petition on behalf of the people of North West Brook, and I hope that he will have some success now that he has figured out how it is you get roads paved. Thank you, Hr. Speaker. MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Transportation. MR. DOYLE: the minister of Hr.

Speaker, I am very pleased, again, to stand today and support the petition presented by the member for Bellevue on behalf of the people of North West Brook and to indicate to him, as I did to other hon. members, that I will Mo. 13 R692 ------------- ---

•·'!! 11: -Jllif'Jfi'& t i"U¢; J ,· ..... ••)ft ..!4 - -,;.- •· 1• 1 ., • rl • r7 a 1 ._ J 1 , ,, ,, ti' 3 •1 •m -m Oft ••Z:*\f A '(MM= •l& s sif-t tw- On 0 .. , ( , . . - certainly be doing everything in my power to see that that particula~ road receives some attention and some support from government. Again, I have to say to the hon . member, that what I said to the member for the Strait of Belle Isle, the member for St. Barbe and the member for Burgeo Bay d' Espoi r is no less applicable to his district, as well.

It is a road that certainly should receive some attention from government in view of the fact that it is the oldest road in the Province, I believe he said - not one of the oldest, but the oldest road in the Province - having been part of the old Cabot Highway system. Mr. Speaker, I can indicate to the people of that area that I have been given representation by the member for Bellevue on a number of different occasions regarding that road. I believe he is in the process of setting up a tour of his district so that I can see firsthand some of the problems associated with the hon. member's district. Mr.

Speaker, it should be pointed out, but certainly not because the hon. member is suddenly on this side of the House, that his district is going to receive attention. He points out, and quite rightly, I believe, that last year somewhere between $6 and $8 million of provincial money, and some federal money, as well, was spent in the hon. member's area. That indicates to me, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. gentleman has been a very, very effective member, both on that side of the House and on this side of the House as well. MR. DI.NN: L693 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL He should get more than that this year. MR. DOYLE: Hr.

Speaker, I will be quite happy, indeed, to receive the petition from the hon. gentleman and to respond to the people of his district in due course. Orders of the Day Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance to introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting An Increase Of Certain Pensions,'' carried. (Bill .No. 28). On motion, Bill .No. 28 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. MR. SIKHS: Hotlon 1 . Committee of Ways and Means. MR. SPEAKER: Motion 1. Budget Debate. The hon. the member for Gander. MR. BAKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . SOME HO.N. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

BAKER: I think that is the most applause I have ever got ten, Hr. Speaker, for the shortest speech I have ever given. I would like to say to the Minister of Finance that I of fer my congratulations to him on the way he presented the budget just a short time ago. I must say that he looked the part; he presented the budget very well and in a very serious and determined manner, No. 13 R693

appeared as a Minister of Finance should appear. I think he accomplished that job, so I would like to congratulate him on his presentation of the budget. There were many comments made immediately after that budget was presented, Mr. Speaker, and a lot of the comments were good because the Minister of Finance went out of his way to make sure that the impression given from the budget he presented, his first budget, was a very good impression. I think he wanted to give that impression and he succeeded. So a lot of the first comments on the budget were relatively positive. However, Mr.

Speaker, if the Minister of Finance were to follow the tradition established in some other Houses, particularly the House of Commons, of buying a new pair of shoes to wear for his budget presentation, if he were to do that and if he were to be true to the nature of the budget, I would suggest to you that he would have gone out and bought himself a good pair of sneakers. Because, Mr. Speaker, without a doubt it has got to be one of the sneakiest budgets that I have ever read. First of all, there was the good news, and it really looked good.

The deficit that was projected for $173 million last year, lo and behold, at the end of the year was now down to $58 mill ion. What a tremendous accomplishment by the Minister of Finance and by the government! That was good news for everybody. We do not like to see a current account deficit of $173 million, especially since this is about four times as large as any previous current account deficit. We do not like to see a current account deficit of $173 ·million. I am sure the bond L694 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL market does not like to see it, either. So it did look good.

In spite of the fact that there was an announcement made about halfway through the fiscal year that the current account deficit estimate would be down a bit, there was no indication it would be down such a tremendous amount. In spite of the fact that this seemed to be sprung on us, on an unsuspecting Province - I beg your pardon for using the word 'sprung' , Mr. Speaker seemingly at the last minute, a tremendous current account deflcit reduction, from $173 million to $58 million. That is a lot of money.

I would certainly like to believe, and the impression was given by statements by members opposite, that this was the result of good planning, careful planning down through the years, good budgeting. The result of all this good management was that we in effect saved a large amount of money, $115 million. That is what it looks like on the surface. I would like to think that that was the result of good management. However, if you examine where that deficit reduction came from, Mr. Speaker, you will find some interesting things. First of all, there was a small sum of about $28 million that magically appeared.

It magically appeared because it was the result of a paper transaction. You see, down through the years government has been setting up sinking funds for some of its borrowing. Some of them, I believe, were insisted upon by the lending institutions because they would not give the government money unless there was a sinking fund set up. Anyway, the sinking funds were set up and .No. 13 R694

;_,. \ each year they would accumulate a certain amount of interest. This interest, it was the opinion of the Auditor General, should really have been credited to current account because the cost of these issues was credited to current account, the interest should be credited to current account. So, this year, the new Minister of Finance agreed with the Auditor General, after much soul searching I am sure, and credited the interest on the sinking fund, some $27 million, to the current account revenue. Mow this means that right off the top there is a reduction of the $27 million.

Another factor which intervened was the equalization payments from the federal government. I believe in this case it was about $9 million there was about a $9 million difference in what was estimated to be the . equalization payment and what actually came from Ottawa. In other words, there was an increase of $9 mill ion. This $9 million, we are told, comes about because of the method of accounting that the government uses.

Instead of using an accrual system, they use what they call the modified cash basis of accounting and, on that basis, they find it difficult , they say , to project accurately exactly what the equalization payments are going to be. Apparently the payments that we get are, in some cases, relating to a period of time two and a half years previously, because it takes that long to analyze the economies of the provinces in Canada and to ' determine accurately exactly what equalization the poorer provinces like Newfoundland should get.

So it takes some time, and because 'they are on the modified cash L695 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL basis, they can only account for this when they get it and, therefore, this involves large fluctuations and this year they are out by $9 million. Mr. Speaker, we know that the former Minister of Finance always had difficulties projecting the bottom line in his budgets. I took the trouble to check with some of the other ·provinces.

I find that Prince Edward Island, although it is a province that is smaller than we are and is operating on a little less money than we are operating on, has been very, very successful in estimating the equalization payments. As a matter of fact, they come always less than one half of one per cent of the actual figure. There is very little variation. If they project $163 million in transfer payments, then they would probably get $163,200,000 or something like that. But it is relatively close. They can very, very accurately determine equalization payments. Mow, an explanation for that I thought, Mr.

Speaker, could have been that they are using a different basis of accounting so I took the trouble to call Prince Edward Island and I found that they are really on an accrual system but in this one instance of the federal transfer payments, equalization payments and so on, they do it exactly the same way as this government, they do their accounting on a cash basis, so that they are in a combination of the cash basis as well as the accrual basis. So they really do their calculations on the same basis as we do, yet they are much more accurate. Perhaps the Minister of Mo. 13 R695 '\10

Finance could check with them and see what mechanisms they use to come up with a more accurate and reliable method of determining the equalization payments. MR. WINDSOR: The federal government does it for both. MR. BAKER: All right, the federal government d&es it for both.· Now, we have, then, what must be the answer: The federal government tells the provincial government exactly what it is going to get and what it should put in its budget and so on. All right, I will file that away for future reference. Let us go to the other explanation then.

The equalization payments are made on the basis of the economic activity in this Province as . compared to the other Provinces. In other words, Hr. Speaker, if the economy of Ontario and Quebec went down, took a sudden downturn and our economy stayed the same as it is now, then the equalization payments that we would ultimately get two or three ,years down the road would be much, much less, because we would be doing better in comparison to the economies of Ontario and Quebec . So, if their economy took a sudden downturn, our equalization payments would be affected by dropping.

Conversely, if the economic activity in these provinces took a sudden upturn and we stayed the same, then our transfer payments would increase, we would have a windfall. If, on the other hand, the growth in this Province matched the growth in Central Canada, our equalization payments would increase slightly each year "because of inflation and so on. L696 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL Percentagewise it would not increase, Hr. Speaker, but in actual dollars it would increase a little bit each year and it would be easy to predict.

So if our economy matched the economy of Central Canada, then the Minister of Finance really would not have very much of a problem in the figures that he uses. So what happened in this case? Hr. Speaker, what happened in this case was that all of a sudden this year there was a windfall of $9 million, unexpected, which indicates to me that our economy had not developed nearly as rapidly as the economy of Central Canada and the other provJ.nces on the average - that is what we are comparing with, all the other provinces on the average a couple of years ago,

whereas Prince Edward Island's economy did fair as well as the other provinces, and they could project with a great deal of accuracy the amount of the transfer payments, especially the equalization payments, coming to that province. Before I forget it, this raises an interesting point for the Minister of Finance because he has projected a tremendous, tremendous increase in transfer payments from the federal government next year, I believe something in the order of $110 million in equalization alone $110 million, a tremendous increase in equalization payments.

The Minister of Finance has said that the federal government does this. He gets his budget estimates for next year from the federal government, so. the federal government has told our government in this Province that they should receive an extra $110 million next year. Now, that is good. We all like to receive extra money, No. 13 R696

,£ ,.. ·•;;;b'<liC" N>uu a¥if* tr""f 7t'·· 21-<ACihi"'rt ' !F: Ozz .... Ut 'cen t ncncr>d'N. • y "U+e jyw· t' ·j, ~ e+ · .. , ., Mr. Speaker, no doubt about it, but that tells me that last year and part of the year before our economy lagged even further behind, and is falling further and further behind. Mr. Speaker, that is what that tells me and that is bad news. I would much prefer our equalization payments went down, because that would mean that we are taking off as a Province.

The Mini~ter said in his Budget Speech that we are on the road to recovery because one of the extra sources of income was retail sales tax. Our economy is taking off because of the planning and the good policy of this government that he is so proud to be a part of, so proud to be a part of. Because of all this tremendous economic activity, we are now on the road to recovery. We have heard this many, many times, but the Minister said it and said it well, and expressed his tremendous pride.

But, on the other hand, we are having the federal government come and tell us, Look, boys, you fellows down there, you are not doing too well, really. You are not doing too well . We are going to have to increase your equalization payments by $110 million. The rest of Canada is progressing, but you fellows are falling further and further behind. Now, that is what that says to me. Mr. Speaker, I called it a sneaky, deceptive budget and that is the first example of what I mean by being a sneaky and deceptive budget.

The rest of the increase in revenue that this budget shows us from last year comes largely from an increase in retail sales tax revenue . and, I believe, some money from the sale of FPI. The retail sales tax revenue, I am · told by Department of Finance L697 April 11 , 1988 Vol XL officials, occurred in the large ticket items like cars. Apparently the sale of cars was rather good, and some of the larger i terns, and this was where the largest part of the increase in the retail sales tax came from, and the minister has used this as an indication that the economy is taking off. Yet, Mr.

Speaker, he, in fact, projects a decrease for next year. So, even the minister must have some doubts. • There is the theory, too, Hr. Speaker, before I leave it, that one of the reasons for the increased revenue from large ticket i terns may be because over the past number • of years people have been holding off and holding off on buying large items.

The world situation has decreed that interest rates drop, so at a certain point their cars were falling to pieces and the large items they normally buy were giving out and there had to be, at this point, in a year or two, a surge in large ticket items simply because they had been holding off for so long on these i terns. I do not know the truth of that, but I am just saying, Mr. Speaker, that that could be an explanation for what happened. The budget is very deceptive, Mr. Speaker, and I suppose you could go to the front page if you wanted an example of the deceptiveness and the sneakiness of this budget.

We have a picture of an establishment that must have been taken in Calgary. It is not the establishment as it is here now, they do not have the eight pods in operation at th.\.s point; they probably will be soon. Is this, Mr. Minister, a picture from here or Calgary. MR. WINDSOR: No. 13 R697 ---·-----------------· ·-----·- ---· --·- ·-·-- --·.

Mount Pearl. MR. BAKER: It is a picture from Mount Pearl. Okay. In the budget, I believe there is reference made to this. It says, "It is envisaged that as Newfoundland Enviroponics Limited facility comes into full production" - I am assuming that it is within a month or so they are envisaging this - "significant increases in the production of fresh local vegetables will decrease imports in this area and will provide a much superior product to the local market." Now, that sounds really good on the surface. It sounds wonderful. Let us produce our own products here in this Province and let us stop importing.

Why would we want to import things when we can have the jobs here in this Province? Why would we cater to the jobs in parts of the United States and Central Canada? Why would we do th