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November 24, 2008

39th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2008-Nov-24 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Monday 24 November 2008 Lundi 24 novembre 2008

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

ROAD SAFETY

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

PENSION PLANS

WORKPLACE INSURANCE

PUBLIC HEALTH

WORKPLACE INSURANCE

PUBLIC HEALTH

POVERTY

POVERTY

CHILD PROTECTION

CHILD CARE

AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

ALCOHOL AND DRUG TREATMENT

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SCHOOL SAFETY

RADIO COMMUNAUTAIRE

CORNWALL COMMUNITY HOSPITAL

ROAD SAFETY

STARDUST BALL

ROAD SAFETY

PROSTATE CANCER

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

LONG-TERM CARE

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

FAMILY STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE

LE DROIT DE LA FAMILLE

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

FAMILY LAW /

DROIT DE LA FAMILLE

FAMILY LAW

FAMILY LAW

FAMILY LAW

PETITIONS

WORKPLACE INSURANCE

WORKPLACE HARASSMENT

HOSPITAL FUNDING

CHILD CARE

HOSPITAL SERVICES

POPE JOHN PAUL II

INNISFIL EARLY YEARS CENTRE

LUPUS

HOSPICES

LOGGING ROUTE

CHILD CUSTODY

EMERGENCY DISPATCH SERVICES

TOM LONGBOAT

ORDERS OF THE DAY

COMMITTEE SITTINGS

The House met at 1030.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Please remain standing for the Lord's Prayer, followed by the non-denominational prayer.

Prayers.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I would like everyone in the House to welcome two of my constituents from Orillia: Betsy Gross and John Armstrong. They're in the members' gallery.

Mr. Joe Dickson: We're going to welcome in just a couple of moments two grade 5 classes from St. Francis de Sales school in Ajax, with their teachers Jeff Shaw and Rob Fortin. The bright young students are from my Ajax-Pickering riding and have come to Queen's Park for a tour today. I must mention that St. Francis de Sales school is located next door to St. Francis de Sales church where my parents were married almost 70 years ago, and I just received this morning from the wonderful minister Gerry Phillips a history book, on St. Francis de Sales of 125 years, and he has family who live adjacent to that.

Mr. Mike Colle: I'd like to introduce the mother of page Sara Maltese, from the riding of Eglinton–Lawrence, Cathy Maltese; the father of page Sara Maltese, Frank Maltese; and the sister of page Sara, Francesca Maltese. Welcome to the gallery at Queen's Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): On behalf of page Tess McGurn, I'd like to welcome her mother, Karen McGurn. She's sitting in the east members' gallery this morning. Welcome to Queen's Park.

ORAL QUESTIONS

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: My question is to the Deputy Premier. Minister, last Thursday, I believe during a media scrum, the Premier said that Ontario's auto industry would end up with fewer jobs than it currently has. We know the Premier is briefed every day. He's not going to engage in careless speculation, so we're assuming this is based on facts from perhaps Minister Bryant's ministry. Minister, could you indicate to the House what the expectation is on behalf of your government with respect to how many jobs you expect will be lost in Ontario's auto industry as a result of the current situation?

Hon. George Smitherman: To the Minister of Economic Development.

Hon. Michael Bryant: The head of the Canadian Auto Workers Union has also said that the auto industry is going to contract, and in fact, that's going to mean fewer jobs. Are we able to provide a projection right now? No, we aren't. Have we received a projection from the industry? No, we haven't.

Part of the exercise that we're undertaking at this time is to obtain from the industry their plans in Ontario for the medium and long term in order to determine the viability of this industry and of the companies, and in turn, the effect it will have on the suppliers. As we receive that information, I'll certainly share it with the House.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: I'm not sure that too many people would agree with the Premier of the province speculating with respect to job losses in an industry that is currently facing such challenges.

I want to talk about ways that jobs can be created in this province, and we've raised these issues with you over the past number of years without much success. You have two programs in place: the advanced manufacturing investment strategy and the Next Generation of Jobs Fund. We're told there's at least $1.5 billion in those funds unutilized, unallocated, to date. Will you commit to taking the money that's left on the table and use it for a real and meaningful jobs plan that will help unemployed Ontarians put food on their table?

Hon. Michael Bryant: Yes, the member is right, and I too want to talk about job creation. That is the purpose of the Next Generation of Jobs Fund and the purpose of the advanced manufacturing investment strategy.

I also want to say that the long-term future of the auto sector—we obviously expect and want that to be one that is going to grow over the long term. Obviously, in the short and medium term it's going to be facing particular challenges, but without the half-billion-dollar auto strategy that the Premier brought forward, we would not be in the situation where in fact we have some of the most competitive and productive manufacturing plants in the world. It is through the advanced manufacturing investment strategy, which has generated almost $900 million in new investments—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: I think there are many people in the province who would question the wisdom of some of those investments today.

We're not the only ones saying that the current jobs plan is a flop. People on the ground, people on the front lines—Cammie Peirce of the Chrysler Action Centre in Brampton told CBC Radio on November 10 that the second generation jobs plan was "arduous" because applicants had to prove they had no skills and couldn't get any type of job. The changes that were announced recently by the minister responsible don't seem to have done anything to address the situation.

Minister, the job losses are coming. Your current plan is not working. When is your government going to show some vision with respect to this area, real leadership, and put a jobs action plan in place that really works?

Hon. Michael Bryant: In fact, what the government did in the last budget was put in place—not in the midst of the current crisis, but in advance of that—a number of incentives: the tax incentives and also the spending incentives, the investments. Dalton McGuinty put that into place, the finance minister put that into place, in the spring budget. They are there now.

The retroactive elimination of the capital tax for the manufacturing industry was put in in the spring. It was of enormous assistance to that industry. The investment of $90 million has transformed into 4,000 jobs under the manufacturing loan program. I would say, and I'm sure the member would agree, that those are good jobs, important jobs, and that is a success. The automotive investment strategy has brought into place $7.5 billion in investments in Ontario.

We didn't wait for the crisis to take place—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. New question.

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: One hundred and forty thousand lost jobs in four years is not a success story by any definition.

ROAD SAFETY

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: To the Minister of Transportation: As you know, Bill 126 has raised and continues to raise a lot of questions about how much thought and consultation went into the drafting of the bill. Under the bill—and I want to give you just one example here—a young soldier driving an armoured tank carrying an entire platoon in Afghanistan would be prevented from driving on Ontario roads with more than one unrelated passenger. I think that's an accurate analogy, Minister. Does that situation make any sense to you?

Hon. James J. Bradley: I think the people you should talk to in this regard are the safety partners in the province of Ontario who unanimously—I'm talking about people such as the police, and I know you have a great deal of respect for the Ontario Provincial Police and for local police services. I can't think of a member in this House who has more respect for those individuals and the advice they would provide to us. They certainly were among those who provided this advice.

I should tell you as well that the Perry family, with whom I met, who lost a son who was one of five killed during the daytime in a van—and there was, to my knowledge, no drinking involved or anything of that nature, but it was young people driving with people together. That was one of the reasons we brought this forward. We look forward to the reaction and to the input of the entire province on this issue, and I think the member draws to our attention—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. Supplementary?

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: I'll draw another example to the minister's attention. Under this bill—and you may be aware of this as well—a 19-year-old can qualify for a commercial pilot's licence. So in essence, an individual can fly a plane full of unrelated passengers, but under your bill, he couldn't drive more than one to the airport on Ontario's roads. Again, Minister, I ask you, does that make any sense to you at all?

Hon. James J. Bradley: It's interesting, what emerges from this. When there's an accident that takes place in the province, when young people are in a car and there's a race to the train tracks and four or five of them are killed, when there are some serious accidents where young people in our society are killed or maimed badly, or are involved in a huge damage accident—the first two being the most important—I would expect from the opposition that I'm going to get a question demanding, "What is the government going to do about that?"

Indeed, when you talk to Mothers Against Drunk Driving, when you talk to the Ontario Safety League, when you talk to the Insurance Bureau of Canada, when you talk to those who, on an ongoing basis, are concerned with these items, they provide this kind of advice. I say to the member, however, I'm certainly open to the kind of input that I always am on every bill.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Robert W. Runciman: I suspect there are elements of this bill that at the end of the day we can support, but there are others that are clearly ill-considered. It makes you wonder just who the minister and his colleagues consulted with in drafting this and how broad that consultation was. Did you consult, for example, with the young parent who under your bill would be prevented from carpooling his or her child with other youngsters in a vehicle to and from daycare?

Clearly, this bill was rushed, with limited consultation. So I ask the minister—and given the track record of this government, it's a legitimate concern—will he stand here today and assure us that this bill will have extensive public hearings across the province before final passage?

Hon. James J. Bradley: The member opposite was a House leader at one time, and a member of a government that—I hate to be provocative in this case, but unlike the previous government, which seldom allowed for public hearings, we in fact invite those kinds of public hearings and input from the public.

I would like to know whether the member feels that those parents who have had these difficult times, the many thousands, or hundreds, at least, of people who wrote to me about this specific issue, and all the safety partners out there who gave recommendations, including the Perry family, who on the day the announcement was made were really not interviewed to the same extent that some others were—yes, we want to hear from everyone who is in favour and opposed to get the best possible legislation.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): New question.

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

Mr. Howard Hampton: My question is to the Acting Premier. On Friday, 22 mayors from across Ontario met to urge the McGuinty government to take action to assist the auto sector. They're very worried about the potential loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs and they are very worried that, for at least a few months now, the McGuinty government hasn't been sure of what it's doing. Since one Ontario auto job supports seven spinoff jobs, and hundreds of thousands of jobs are at stake, can the McGuinty government tell those worried mayors and worried workers what its strategy is?

Hon. George Smitherman: To the Minister of Economic Development.

Hon. Michael Bryant: Indeed, the member is absolutely right that the suppliers in the North American integrated auto industry that we have today are in fact being harmed substantially by all the activity taking place with respect to the automakers themselves. That is one of the reasons why we put into place the advanced manufacturing investment strategy. It was to provide assistance to the very companies that the member is speaking of, to allow them to make those upgrades and changes so that they can be even more competitive. That is to the benefit of those companies and to the benefit of the economy, as we increase the jobs through this important investment strategy.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Howard Hampton: The McGuinty government continues to talk about some kind of strategy that was announced over three years ago. Since then, we've witnessed the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs and, these mayors are now saying, the potential loss of hundreds of thousands more.

Obviously, what the McGuinty government is talking about hasn't worked and isn't working. As Oakville Mayor Rob Burton put it, and I want to quote him, "We're on the cusp of a really bad place in economic history if we don't act."

What these mayors are asking and what literally hundreds of thousands of workers around this province are asking is, what is the McGuinty government's strategy for the auto sector now? Don't tell us about what you were thinking three years ago; obviously that didn't work. What's the strategy now?

Hon. Michael Bryant: I totally disagree with the member. The member seems to be suggesting that history will record that the current global economic crisis was caused by action or inaction by a Canadian provincial government. I think the member knows that that is nonsense.

This is affecting China, this is affecting Germany, this is affecting the United States and, yes, this is affecting Canada. It is because of the strategies that we've put in place that we already have the mechanisms to provide assistance and to provide investments. If the member's asking, "Are we creating greater flexibility with these programs in light of the current economic crisis?" the answer is absolutely yes, and that is to the benefit of those communities that the member speaks of, those companies that the member speaks of and of course the jobs created and the people of those communities, most importantly.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Final supplementary.

Mr. Howard Hampton: I guess I have to remind the McGuinty government that what these communities see is tens of thousands of jobs disappearing, in some cases thousands of jobs every week disappearing. So when the McGuinty government talks about a strategy that it announced three years ago, they're not impressed.

But equally, they're having a hard time figuring out what the McGuinty government's real position is. One day, the Premier boasts and says that the auto sector is worth investing in, and then this weekend he said, "Well, gee, you know, further investment in the auto sector might increase the deficit of the McGuinty government."

What is the real message here: Let jobs go because the McGuinty government's worried about the deficit, or invest in these jobs to sustain these jobs in these communities? Which is the real McGuinty message?

Hon. Michael Bryant: When the government made investments in these communities, I certainly didn't hear the member complain about those investments. In fact, but for those investments, we would not be in the position we are in and we would not have the programs and the dollars in place to provide this assistance. That led to an investment of $100 million in Ford in Oakville that retained 4,000 jobs; the Ford Essex engine plant—investing $17 million to reopen the plant with a more fuel-efficient engine production; and Chrysler Canada in Brampton and Windsor. These investments created jobs and they created programs that allowed these companies to access them.

Obviously, a reduction by a third to the sales of all cars in North America has had a negative impact on the industry, but this government has been there for them in the past and this government will continue to work with them in the future.

PENSION PLANS

Mr. Howard Hampton: Again to the Deputy Premier—and I think people out there are wondering what the McGuinty government's position is now, since you can't seem to get your message straight from one day to the next. What is also now clear is that the $6.5-billion shortfall in the General Motors pension plan is only the tip of the iceberg, as pension plans across Ontario are in trouble.

My question is this: People who have worked hard and followed the rules all their lives in this province are very worried about their pensions and about the security of their retirement. The McGuinty government has talked for five years about pensions. Can you tell us what assurances the McGuinty government can give to all those hundreds of thousands of people who are worried that they may not have a pension, or a much-diminished pension? What's the McGuinty government going to do to help those people who've—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Deputy?

Hon. George Smitherman: To the Minister of Finance.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: A number of initiatives have been undertaken by our government, including looking at long-term issues around pension reform. Mr. Arthurs presented his report last Thursday. There are some 142 recommendations that deal with a whole range of issues. This has been subject to a very extensive consultation over the course of the last year and a half involving employers, employees, members as well as pensioners themselves.

In terms of the short term, the issues are subject to discussions that are ongoing not only within fiscal, but finance ministers from across Canada will be discussing these as part of their meeting in December. There is a range of issues to look at.

I think the member wants to be careful that he doesn't unnecessarily cause alarm with people by torquing up his language—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. Supplementary?

Mr. Howard Hampton: I think the headline in the Globe and Mail speaks for itself—a $6.5-billion deficit in the General Motors pension plan. All you have to do is look at any of the business pages to realize that hundreds, perhaps thousands, more pension plans are in trouble. I think all those people who are worried deserve a real answer from the McGuinty government. I welcome Professor Arthurs's paper. New Democrats have advocated many of those longer-term changes for some time.

But the question is this: There's a real short-term problem. Is the McGuinty government going to present a short-term plan for these pensions which are in trouble before we recess for Christmas, or are you going to simply push that issue off until some nebulous time in the future as well?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I would caution pensioners in Ontario not to listen too carefully to the member opposite, who is trying to stoke fears unnecessarily. There is no doubt that pension funds, like all other funds that invest in various markets, have seen substantial hits this fall. That does not necessarily imply that there are solvency issues. It does require that governments look at a range of alternatives with respect to managing through these difficult circumstances.

But I would caution the member opposite not to unduly and unnecessarily inflame fear in people when in fact pension regulators across the country and around the world are looking at these—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr. Howard Hampton: The McGuinty government now wants to talk about fear. I'll tell you what people are worried about. At a time when literally hundreds of pension plans are potentially in trouble or are already in real trouble, and they're expecting some leadership from the McGuinty government, do you know what this Legislature is going to debate for the next four days? A partisan motion from the McGuinty government attacking the official opposition—no attention to pensions, no attention to pension plans that are potentially in trouble, but a very partisan motion from the government for the next four days.

People have known for some time that the pension system was in trouble, for at least the last five years—no action from the McGuinty government. Are we going to see some action before Christmas or just more partisan motions attacking the opposition from the McGuinty government?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Just so the public understands that motion, the government wants the economic standing committee to travel Ontario to hear submissions on the economy, and both opposition parties are going to vote against that. Six weeks ago they were calling for a select committee; now they won't let the committee travel the province. I'm travelling the province. I have been and will continue to. The member opposite—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Leader of the third party, you just had the opportunity to ask the question. I would appreciate that you listen to the answer. Minister?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The member opposite doesn't have to worry about pensions, I'll say that. The member opposite is irresponsible in what he's saying. There's no question that there have to be short-term initiatives undertaken. Canadian and provincial finance ministers are working on—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

WORKPLACE INSURANCE

Mr. Norm Miller: I have a question for the Minister of Labour. Last week you told an independent operator that, "Judith Andrew of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business never asked for a named insured system," but for many years now, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business has asked for a named insured system to deal with people cheating the WSIB system, so I don't know why you'd make that statement.

In fact, in a CFIB election questionnaire, when asked if you would refrain from expanding mandatory WSIB coverage to include independent operators and direct the WSIB to implement a named insured system to deal with cheaters, Mr. McGuinty replied, "The WSIB is in the process of establishing a working group to examine the feasibility of a named insured system."

Minister, why aren't you doing what you said you would do and direct the WSIB to proceed with a named insured system to attack the cheaters, instead of your flawed Bill 119?

Hon. Peter Fonseca: I've got to say to the member, he's got the wrong information. To that independent operator: The proposed legislation that we're putting forward, actually, would allow for named insured. We've been working with all stakeholders—with the CFIB, with labour groups, with employers, with employees—looking at a way that named insured could work within this proposed legislation.

The main thing we want is that all those who are on a construction site are covered. We want to make sure that if that independent operator—yes, that independent operator—is on that construction site, that they are covered by WSIB. But in regards to the named insured, we've had a working group over the year. I believe they've met about eight times. It has included labour, it has included employers, associations, different stakeholders working together to see what we can do within this proposed legislation. I say to the member again, yes, and to the CFIB—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Norm Miller: Minister, you know that you don't need your Bill 119 to bring in a named insured system. In truth, since you've been appointed, you have not really bothered to consult with business. In fact, you left a voice mail for the CFIB saying that you were looking forward to working with them, but before your first meeting even took place, you announced to a union audience in Windsor that you intended to go ahead with mandatory WSIB coverage, contrary to your election promise. Judith Andrew, vice-president of the CFIB, wrote, "Cheating becomes much more difficult with named insurance. Regrettably, Bill 119 will help the cheaters prosper."

So Minister, this is contrary to what you've been saying about levelling the playing field. All you need to do to catch the non-participants is to bring in a named insurance program and have your auditors do their job. It begs the question: Why didn't you listen to anyone in business before you introduced Bill 119? Why did you only listen to union bosses?

Hon. Peter Fonseca: I say to the member, maybe you didn't hear it the first time, but the proposed legislation does allow for named insured. But within this proposed legislation, this government feels strongly about the WSIB. It's a system that has been in place, a safety net to protect our construction workers and many other workers, for close to 100 years that we are steadfast on. We will work with stakeholders, work with employers, work with labour groups, work with associations to see if we can strengthen the legislation and make sure that we strengthen that safety net.

That's what we're here for, to make sure that those workers, when they go on to that construction site, are taken care of and that they're safe. Also, that businesses are playing on a level playing field and that everybody is paying their fair share.

PUBLIC HEALTH

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour le ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée. Why has the minister allowed one third of Ontario medical officer of health positions to remain vacant, part-time or led by a temporary acting physician?

Hon. David Caplan: I want to thank the chief medical officer of health for his annual report. In his report, Dr. Williams generally praises Ontario's health protection branch, the Minister of Health's three-year action plan to revitalize the public health system and the resulting improvements to Ontario's system.

The member raises an issue, which is a long-standing one in the province of Ontario, about the ability to attract, recruit and retain physicians to hold chief medical officer of health positions. I can tell you that quite recently, through the arrangements we have with the Ontario Medical Association, we've been able to negotiate one of the issues that has been identified, which is the compensation for particular physicians to assume these positions. That has been addressed. It's our hope, in working collaboratively with the Ontario Medical Association, to be in a position to attract, recruit and retain physicians to these—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: Last week in his annual report, the province's acting chief medical officer of health pointed to the 13 vacancies as a serious problem in public health. The Ontario Medical Association has said that the lack of full-time, permanent, fully-qualified medical officers of health poses an enormous threat to the health of Ontarians, in that a single dysfunctional health unit could incubate a national epidemic—another SARS or another Walkerton.

Is the minister absolutely sure that six years after the Walkerton inquiry recommended that vacant medical officer of health positions be filled expeditiously, the problem is simply salary, and that nothing more needs to be done to ensure that all public health units in the province are properly staffed?

Hon. David Caplan: In fact, it's not entirely salaries, nor have I ever made that claim. The member well knows that this is not an area that it is often a choice when physicians come out and practise in the medical profession. Oftentimes, they make a choice between some of the different areas of speciality that are available to them. That's why we have enhanced funding and revised the funding parameters for cost-shared educational bursary programs for perspective medical officers of health, in order to make it more attractive to physicians who would want to practise in this particular area.

The bursary program is designed to increase the supply of medical officers of health by attracting interested physicians. Back in March last year, my predecessor offered dedicated funding for up to five physicians who wished to pursue specialty training in community medicine or a master's in public health or equivalent. Part of HealthForceOntario, our group dedicated with—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

WORKPLACE INSURANCE

Ms. Laurel C. Broten: My question is for the Minister of Labour. Our government has proposed legislation that, if passed, will extend Workplace Safety and Insurance Board, WSIB, coverage to a broader group of the construction industry. I don't need to tell the minister that Bill 119 has been a popular topic of discussion of late, as well as an important issue for the construction industry for many years.

The critical question I have been asked in my community is: Why does Bill 119 make it mandatory for all executive officers to have the same insurance coverage as construction workers? I would ask the minister to respond to this question.

Hon. Peter Fonseca: I would like to thank the member for the question and for the work she has been doing to promote health and safety in the construction workplace.

We have heard from a wide variety of construction associations, small businesses, and labour and employer groups during the development of this proposed legislation. Through those consultations, an overriding concern expressed to us was the potential misclassification of workers as executive officers. The misclassification of executive officers is currently being used as a way for employers to get out of paying coverage for their workers. We have heard about cases where an employer has gone to great lengths to misclassify construction staff as executive officers to avoid paying. We want to make sure that we close this loophole, but not unduly penalize legitimate executive officers.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Laurel C. Broten: Minister, some feel that executive officers and partners in a partnership who do not work on construction sites should be exempt from having to pay mandatory coverage through WSIB. There is a clear difference between an executive officer working in the office on paperwork and one working on a construction site. Can we not find a way to potentially exclude executive officers who are not exposed to the risks of construction from having to pay premiums for WSIB?

Hon. Peter Fonseca: A great question, and I'd like to thank the member as well as MPPs Lou Rinaldi and Jeff Leal, and many others who have advocated on this issue.

Bill 119 has recently finished public hearings and will be going to clause-by-clause later today. We've been listening to what MPPs, individual groups and associations have been saying on this issue, and I'm pleased to say that we have filed an amendment with the clerk that, if accepted, would amend the proposed legislation and allow the government a regulation-making power to exempt an individual executive officer or a partner who works exclusively in the office and not on a construction site.

To be clear, the misclassification of executive officers that is currently being used as a way for employers to get out of paying coverage for their workers cannot continue.

The government will work with business and labour groups before putting forward a regulation to ensure it meets the overall goals—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question?

PUBLIC HEALTH

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: My question is for the Minister of Health. There is widespread concern in this province, and there has been now for five years, at your failure, your government's failure, to ensure that the 13 vacancies in public health are filled. People are tired of your lame excuses. You failed to adopt my amendment calling for a plan of action in 2006.

I ask you today, what is your plan? And don't tell us it's more money. You've had five years and we've seen no results. The situation has gotten worse.

Hon. David Caplan: We do know the member's plan, as my colleague points out: a $3-billion cut to health care in the province of Ontario. That's not going to be able to fill the vacancies, to provide the medical professionals we need. In fact, in the chief medical officer's report, he takes a look at the whole area of public health.

He says that the ministry has done an excellent job in establishing the provincial infectious disease advisory committee; creating 14 regional infection control networks; increasing the share of funding for mandatory programs delivered through the 36 public health units to 75% from 2007—that's up from 50% when this member was in office; creating the emergency management unit to lead and support emergency management and activities for the health system; and establishing the Ontario health agency for health protection and promotion.

We have taken significant action to be able to deal with the public health challenges of Ontarians, as they would expect us to. Speaker—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: I am horrified that this minister fails to recognize the gravity of the situation. The reality is, when you have situations like Walkerton, SARS and C. difficile, fast action by public health experts can mean the difference between life and death, and he fails to answer the question asked and then he puts out misleading information. We are not going to—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I ask the honourable member to withdraw the comment.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: Withdrawn.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer: We are not going to withdraw $3 billion from health. But I would ask this minister, when you're sitting in this House, Minister, perhaps you should be communicating and developing a plan of action to deal with the shortage of these health officials who can make the difference between life and death. Will you come back and give us a plan of action and demonstrate—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. David Caplan: In effect, the mendacity of the member opposite is well known.

I can tell you that a plan has been developed and in fact is being followed. As I mentioned earlier, through our recent negotiation with the Ontario Medical Association, in March 2007, for example, we offered dedicated funding for up to five physicians with which to pursue specialty training in community medicine or a master's in public health or administration.

Part of HealthForceOntario includes establishing a one-stop centre for internationally educated health professionals to obtain the information and the ability to enter into the health care system needed right throughout the province of Ontario.

The new salary structure I mentioned earlier will be developed and communicated to boards of health that are employing medical officers of health and associate medical officers of health.

This has been, as the member recognizes, a long-standing problem, but I think if the member, fairly, would want to acknowledge the kind of work and effort that has gone in—and even the chief medical officer himself recognizes that and—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

POVERTY

Mr. Michael Prue: My question is to the Minister of Children and Youth Services. Since 650 Ontarians made submissions to the government's poverty website and this government has chosen not to release the submissions to the public, could this minister please share the key messages with this House.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Let me tell you that many of the submissions are, of course, publicly available. Those by organizations—they've posted them on their websites; they've circulated them broadly. When individuals made submissions to us, they made submissions to the committee. Overwhelmingly, people are telling us that reducing poverty should be a priority of this government, and I can assure them that reducing poverty is indeed a major priority of this government, reiterated over the weekend by the Premier in terms that were very clear and unequivocal.

We heard a number of suggestions. We heard about the importance of breaking the cycle of intergenerational poverty. We heard about people who desperately wanted to move off social assistance into employment and they felt that the system was not there to support them. We heard a number of issues, and I'm sure in the supplementary I'll have an opportunity to talk more about that.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Michael Prue: The minister says they are publicly available, and I guess that is true if you are willing to put down the $150 and wait for 60 days through the freedom of information act. That's how they're publicly available and that's how the minister has chosen to do it.

Since the minister won't share the submissions and the key messages, we will, because we've been able to find out some of them. The most common recommendations were: more affordable housing; increases to ODSP and to OW; end the clawback of child benefits; raise the minimum wage above the poverty line; and affordable child care.

Those are the things people are talking about. Campaign 2000 calls for these same actions in a new child poverty report which came out on Friday.

My question: Why won't the minister commit to include these actions in the government's upcoming poverty plan?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I would like to clarify that the member opposite does have the submissions, all of the submissions. He received them some time ago. There's nothing secret about them at all. But what I can tell you is that we are moving forward. I do understand that you're anxious to see what it is we're going to include in this strategy, and I know that people across the province are really waiting with great anticipation for the release of this strategy. We are on track to keep our commitment, which is to release the strategy by the end of the month.

I want to take this opportunity once again to thank people across the province for being engaged in this conversation and for changing the conversation. It wasn't very long ago when people were outside on the front lawn of Queen's Park trying to get in, protesting government. Today they are at the table working very hard, rolling up their sleeves in partnership with the government and others to develop the solutions that we all know we need to reduce poverty in this province.

POVERTY

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: My question is to the Minister of Children and Youth Services. Before I ask the question, I want to thank the minister and commend her for her extremely hard work on this very difficult file, and I thank her for continuing to do the work.

Minister, addressing poverty in our province is something I continue to hear about from many of my constituents. That's why I was so pleased when the Premier appointed the province's first-ever cabinet committee on poverty reduction last year.

In my riding alone, I've held two public consultations about poverty reduction, one of them that the minister attended. We had groups like Child Poverty Action Group, the Youth Services Bureau of Ottawa, ACORN, the Anti-Poverty Project, and I can go on, who attended that consultation and gave very positive feedback.

Last week, there was another report that underscored the importance of developing a comprehensive poverty reduction strategy. Campaign 2000's 2008 report card on child poverty shows that while we are finally making—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Minister?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: First of all, let me thank the member opposite from Ottawa Centre. He's been engaged in this in a very active way. I'd also like to commend him for his dashing new look. He is sporting a moustache in support of the fight against prostate cancer. Congratulations to you; I actually like the look.

I also want to take this opportunity to clarify: I think I misspoke. We will have the strategy released by the end of the year. So we are short weeks away from the release of the strategy.

Let me thank Campaign 2000. They have been tireless advocates on this issue for many, many years. They have done excellent work. They have helped inspire us to do better. We certainly recognize there is more to be done, and that's why we have struck the cabinet committee. That's why we are committed to measuring our progress. This report shows some of the progress that's already been made. The member opposite will know that it shows the data up to 2006. And we—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: I'll give you more time to finish your answer, and I ask all the members of the opposition to get on with working hard with this government in making sure that poverty ends in this province instead of just yelling and screaming and making things up.

With the uncertain economic times facing both Ontario and much of the world, many children in our province are at risk of falling into poverty. How will our government ensure that levels of child poverty will continue to be reduced in the future as they have been in the past two years?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I would like to again refer back to the Campaign 2000 report. It shows that we are really making progress. There are 49,000 fewer kids in poverty than there were two years ago, 21,000 fewer in 2006 and 2005, a decrease of 6.1%, the second consecutive year the number has gone down. Prior to that, prior to our election, the number of kids in poverty continued to grow year after year.

It's also important to remember that this report does not capture some of the historic changes that we have made since 2006, most importantly, the Ontario child benefit. It does not capture increases in minimum wage. It does not capture increases in social assistance rates. So as we move forward, we will develop ways to measure poverty, and we will report back. We will work together to reduce poverty in this province.

CHILD PROTECTION

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: To the Minister of Education: I'm really pleased to see that your government has finally stepped up to address one small part of the system that failed Katelynn Sampson and allowed her to tragically fall through the cracks. Minister Bentley's announcement today is only one tiny piece of the problem. Unfortunately, more than one ministry failed this poor child. What investigations, if any, have you conducted into that school's failure to contact authorities and report Katelynn Sampson's prolonged absence prior to her death?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: As the member opposite knows, I'm not going to comment on the specifics of that case. What I know the member is getting at is a question that has been raised by the party opposite a number of times, and that is on the issue of reporting.

I've been very clear that one of the reasons we re-engaged the safe schools action team, under the leadership of my parliamentary assistant, the member for Guelph, is that we wanted to be sure that given the numbers of pieces of legislation where reporting is required, there were no gaps, that personnel in schools were required to report when there was a serious incident. My parliamentary assistant is going to be bringing that report forward within next few weeks, and I look forward to getting those recommendations.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: I am not asking for details of the case. I know that you can't provide them, and I would never ask. But a student on your watch, with documented behavioural problems and troubled learning, was missing from school for two months. The wounds on her body were not all fresh, and she was clearly struggling in the months leading up to her death.

You have policies in place, policy directives that principals and teachers across this province take seriously. They are disturbed by this child's death, as we are. Why have you not conducted an investigation into why Katelynn Sampson was abandoned and forgotten in this school and on your watch, and what measures would you undertake to prevent this from happening again?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Obviously it is of great concern to everyone in our society that such a thing would happen. As I have said, I cannot talk about the specifics of any particular case, but what I can tell you is that when a child is not in school, there are attendance counsellors, there are superintendents and teachers and principals and education assistants, who are paying attention to that issue. Whenever a child in the province is not attending school, there are people in the system for whom that is a red flag.

I can't comment on the specifics of this case, but as I said, I am looking to the safe schools action team to give me advice on whether there are any gaps in reporting, whether in legislation or regulation or in policy, that we should be addressing.

CHILD CARE

Mr. Paul Miller: My question, of course, is to the Minister of Community and Social Services.

Last week, 200 grandparents and grandchildren made the long trek to Queen's Park, and 100 more rallied in their hometowns, to make sure that this minister heard their voices, heard the pain and suffering that her changes to temporary care assistance programs are causing in our communities.

When will the minister actually listen to all the voices of grandparents raising their grandchildren and reverse her ill-advised changes to the temporary care assistance program?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: First of all, let me clarify something. The member from Hamilton East—Stoney Creek has said publicly many times that all the grandparents' temporary care assistance benefits are going to be cut off. That's not true. You repeated it on CHCH. All the members of the NDP, knowing that it's not true, are sitting there without saying anything. Those grandparents out there are getting upset, and rightly so, so that scare tactic should stop right away. The benefits are there to stay.

Do you know what? The member from Niagara had visitors; no one was cut off. The member from London—Fanshawe was visited by grandparents; no one was cut off. You yourself brought five grandparents last week—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Paul Miller: I just wonder, if she's so sure about her position, why she wouldn't debate me on TV on Friday night.

There are four prominent groups representing grandparents in Ontario. Last June, one group met with the minister, and the result was the punitive and devastating change to their meagre TCA funding.

What further devastation will this minister be wreaking upon these at-risk grandchildren after her meeting tomorrow with Minister Matthews? You're only meeting with one group of grandparents. Why aren't you meeting with them all? I don't know what you're up to.

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: This member is saying things that are not true. I don't know if it's parliamentary to say it's not true, but it's not true. I am meeting with every grandparent who has asked to meet with me. Tomorrow, there is a group that has been asking me; I'm meeting with them.

When this member is saying that these benefits have been cut off—let's talk about facts. In Hamilton, in July, there were 181 cases. In October, in Hamilton, there were 185 cases on temporary care assistance. Province-wide, in July there were 4,027 cases; in October, there were 4,136 cases.

If there are grandparents who are not satisfied with the decision from the municipality, they should appeal it before the Social Benefits Tribunal. That's why the—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.

AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH

Mrs. Liz Sandals: My question is to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs.

Minister, research and innovation is a key part of our five-point plan on the economy. We recognize why it is so important to invest in innovation. We believe that when we innovate and when we are able to demonstrate that we have the latest, the best and the safest, we will attract business to our province. The future of the agriculture and food sector in particular depends on the benefit of a strong foundation of research in developing best practices and new innovative biotech and agri-food products.

The Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs was in my riding of Guelph recently where she spoke at the official opening of the Bioproducts Discovery and Development Centre. Could the minister please explain to this House what work is being done at the University of Guelph by the research chair that will strengthen the agriculture and biotech sectors?

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: We hear a great deal from our agriculture partners about the importance of research and innovation. I think the honourable member brings forward an opportunity for all of us to be aware of the good work that's going on at the University of Guelph.

Now, our government has provided a $3-million endowment to the university to establish the Premier's research chair in biomaterials and transportation. Dr. Amar Mohanty was appointed as the research chair in 2007. He's an international leader and accomplished and very respected in his field of biomaterials. Our government has also provided $5.9 million to the bio-car project through the Ministry of Research and Innovation, as well as $6 million from OMAFRA for the Ontario Bioauto Council. Researchers are working on those areas that have been identified by industry stakeholders as key and important.

We know that farmers in rural communities will directly benefit from these new opportunities and the new markets that will result, as a result—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mrs. Liz Sandals: Our government's innovation agenda is a fundamental part of our plan to move Ontario's economy forward. It will help us sustain the high quality of life that we enjoy today and create the high value jobs of the future. We are sending the message to the world that in my riding of Guelph, and right across this great province, we have a team of researchers and companies that are looking to export to international markets while at the same time giving Ontario farmers and companies a competitive advantage.

Our government has invested heavily in our partnership with the University of Guelph, a partnership that has yielded significant results over the many years and continues to be the central hub of agri-food research and innovation activities here in Ontario, creating jobs and increasing the productivity of the sector. Speaker, through you to the minister, could she tell this House more about this partnership her ministry has with the University of Guelph and some of the—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister?

Interjections.

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky: Perhaps members of the third party don't really appreciate the value of the very unique synergy that is in place between OMAFRA and the University of Guelph, but our industry partners value it greatly. In fact, what we have in place there is quite unique in Canada.

Our renewed partnership that was announced in April will provide $300 million over the next five years for ongoing research and innovation in the agri-food sector. A Deloitte analysis of the economic impact of this type of partnership and investment concluded that $54.8 million of OMAFRA funding will have an economic impact of more than $1 billion for 2006-07. That is an investment that delivers results. The partnership is a unique combination of government, industry and academia, and some of the results that we can see in our—

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you, Minister. New question.

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

Mr. Frank Klees: My question is to the Minister of the Environment. The minister will be aware of a recent Globe and Mail

article in which James Rusk reveals disturbing information concerning the activities of Environmental Defence Canada, specifically its costly challenges to decisions by the Ministry of Environment as well as the Ministry of Natural Resources. Mr. Rusk's research revealed that Environmental Defence, the Innisfil District Association and two private companies, where the direct financial interests at stake share common directors.

Will the minister tell the House what steps he has taken, or plans to take, in light of this information to ensure that the more than $1 million in provincial funding received by Environmental Defence is in fact being used for the purposes it is intended and not to further private self-serving interests?

Hon. John Gerretsen: First of all, I'd like to thank the member for the question and thank him for providing me with a copy of the

article a couple minutes ago. Obviously, we are concerned about issues like this. We will look into it, and advise him accordingly in the future. You know, our main concern within the Ministry of the Environment is to make sure that we have the best environmental circumstances for all of our citizens—whether we're talking about clean air, whether we're talking about the best land quality or whether we're talking about the best water system in the province. That's the main concern of the Ministry of the Environment. I'll look into these allegations and get back to him later on.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Mr. Frank Klees: I thank the minister for his undertaking. He will know, or should know, that the Friends of the Greenbelt Foundation transferred some $600,000 to Environmental Defence Canada. The Ontario Trillium Foundation transferred some $537,000, and now we know, as a result of research, that Environmental Defence Canada is actually a very active participant in challenging the government before the Ontario Municipal Board. Surely, the minister will agree with us that that is irresponsible and cannot be condoned.

Will the minister agree to ask the Auditor General to do a comprehensive review of where this money from provincial coffers has gone, how many organizations it has filtered through and for what purposes it is being used?

Hon. John Gerretsen: Many grants are given to a lot of different organizations to look after the interests that they're primarily concerned with, whether we're talking about the environment or anywhere else. How they expend that money in order to further their particular cause, to make sure that, in this case, the environment is looked after in the best possible way, is up to them. If there are some inappropriate relationships there, then obviously that should be looked into. But I'm not willing to go as far as this member went, as far as making all these various suggestions or insinuations that he has made here.

We will look into this matter and we will get back to him on this issue in the future.

ALCOHOL AND DRUG TREATMENT

Ms. Andrea Horwath: To the Minister of Health Promotion: Does the minister intend to continue funding Focus Community project substance abuse prevention programs: yes or no?

Hon. Margarett R. Best: I thank the member opposite for the question and I want the member opposite to know that the Ministry of Health Promotion is certainly intending to continue to look into programs that affect the young people of our province. We will continue to address the issues relating to prevention and addiction. It is a fundamental part of the ministry's mandate, which we continue to work on.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The McMurtry-Curling roots of violence report urges more funding for programs like these. Why is the long-running Focus program still waiting to hear its funding fate from the ministry when experts want more programs like this to tackle the roots of violence?

Hon. Margarett R. Best: Again, I thank the member opposite for the question. Certainly the roots of violence report is something that is of fundamental importance. We are currently looking into and reviewing the report. We in the Ministry of Health Promotion, as well as across ministries in the government of Ontario, intend to address many of the issues that are raised in that report. We know that in addressing those issues, we will address some of the fundamental and present issues that affect people in the province of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The Minister of Health, in response to the supplementary, I believe, in consultation with the table and with the dictionary, used unparliamentary language.

Hon. David Caplan: I will withdraw, Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Question period has ended. This House stands recessed until 1 p.m.

The House recessed from 1134 to 1300.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Hon. Christopher Bentley: Beginning now and throughout the afternoon, there are going to be a number of people representing different legal organizations, law commissions, bar associations and the like, and they're going to stream in. I just want the House to recognize and thank them for the hard work they do in the administration of justice.

Mr. David Zimmer: Although they haven't arrived yet, I would like to introduce Susan Thorning and Donna Rubin. They're from the Ontario Association of Non-Profit Homes and Services for Seniors and the Ontario Community Support Association. These individuals head up those two non-profit organizations that I just referred to, and they do great work for seniors and their residential requirements here in Ontario.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SCHOOL SAFETY

Mrs. Joyce Savoline: I rise in the House today in response to a request from the office of the Minister of Education. Minister Wynne's office has asked that we notify them about questions we're going to raise in question period so that she may be prepared. I rise today to serve notice to the minister that I will do no such thing, but I will continue to give a voice to those students and their families who have suffered through violence and abuse in our school system at the hands of fellow students.

When my office is contacted regarding yet another case of student-on-student violence, I will be coming to you, Minister, to demand once again that you legislate mandatory reporting in our schools. Your pat answer about increasing the number of adults or throwing money at the issue will be cold comfort to those students and families who trust you and whose families have been shattered by your failure to act.

You know the problem exists, you know that there are actions you can take to make a difference, and you choose to hide your head in the sand. Principals across Ontario should not be called out because of your failure to create province-wide legislation. They need your support. Minister, your office should consider this notice, because our students deserve protection, they deserve justice and they deserve the fullest attention.

RADIO COMMUNAUTAIRE

M. Gilles Bisson: On a eu l'opportunité cette fin de semaine de célébrer 20 ans de succès de la radio CINN FM à Hearst, une radio communautaire qui fait

partie de la communauté depuis 20 ans. Il est très important d'avoir une telle organisation dans notre communauté à Hearst et dans les environs. C'est non seulement là où on écoute de la belle musique, mais c'est aussi là où on a la chance d'écouter son député provincial quand il passe à travers les ondes faisant affaire avec les manchettes et les nouvelles de CINN FM. Mais plus important, c'est une radio communautaire, et c'est ça la clé. Ça donne la chance à la communauté de se voir à travers la radio et de s'assembler à travers la radio pour parler.

Ce qui est important pour la communauté, c'est de laisser savoir aux gens de la région de Hearst ce qui se passe, quels événements vont y avoir lieu, et d'avoir une manière de rassembler les francophones de notre région.

Monsieur le président, je peux vous dire que le monde à Hearst est très content avec la radio CINN FM, comme les autres radios communautaires à travers la province, et on dit à CINN FM, bonne célébration.

CORNWALL COMMUNITY HOSPITAL

Mr. Jim Brownell: My riding of Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry has always been a great place to live, with an unparalleled quality of life. It is an ideal place to raise a family, establish a business or take a holiday.

This has never been more true. With major infrastructure redevelopment and a strong sense of community, great things are happening and being recognized.

I was proud to see that the Cornwall Community Hospital recently received the Ontario Hospital Association's Healthy Hospital Innovators Award for the good work they are doing. This award recognizes the commitment of organizations to implement strategies that will aid in the development and sustainability of a healthy workplace.

The Cornwall Community Hospital was commended for its continued commitment toward its highest values, those being respect, teamwork, integrity and compassion through the day-to-day work of its staff. I would like to congratulate hospital CEO Jeanette Despatie and her team for the work they are doing to make the Cornwall Community Hospital such an outstanding facility.

As MPP for Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, it is my privilege to continue working with the Cornwall Community Hospital board and staff, with the city of Cornwall and with the labour sector to ensure top-notch health care services and delivery for the people of Cornwall.

With the work being done at all three hospitals in Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, whether it be in Cornwall or Winchester, we will shortly have some of the finest health care facilities anywhere in Ontario.

ROAD SAFETY

Ms. Laurie Scott: I would like to share some comments and e-mails I have received since the introduction of Bill 126, the Road Safety Act, 2008.

From a 17-year-old resident: "I'm not sure why or how this part was thought up, but someone did not think it through. Is there not a climate crisis right now? Teenagers who planned on carpooling are now risking their licences. I will not be able to pick up my friends on the way to school in order to save them gas ... I now cannot volunteer to be the designated driver."

From a mother in rural Ontario: "Out here we drive 80 to 120 kilometres to play a game of hockey. In the city you have buses, taxis and the subway. Here we have nothing and everything is a drive. Pull your heads out of the city and don't make another law that hurts rural Ontario."

Another e-mail: "I understand the frustration behind the bill but this is the wrong way to handle this situation. Much consultation needs to be done before acting in haste."

We, in this Legislature, can all agree that the lives of young people are precious, and we should do what we can to learn from and help prevent further tragedies on our roads. But legislation needs to be sensible, reasonable and enforceable, as well as take into account the practicalities of living. The official opposition requests that the Minister of Transportation and the Premier ensure that a full slate of public input hearings is enabled, and this must include rural Ontario.

In my experience, I know that most young drivers take that privilege very seriously. They take their driver education and improvement courses, and they do their part to be responsible and safe young citizens. Bill 126 is a serious piece of legislation that will drastically change the law for Ontario's young drivers. Please let them be heard.

STARDUST BALL

Mr. Reza Moridi: On November 7, 2008, I had the pleasure of attending the Stardust Ball, organized by the York Central Hospital Foundation. Over the past 20 years, this event has raised more than $4.5 million for capital improvements. This includes a new digital mammography unit and leading-edge surgical equipment, as well as construction that helped triple the size of the emergency department.

This year, the foundation has been able to raise over half a million dollars to purchase a safe intravenous infusion pump system, which will be installed in early 2009. Smart pumps are intelligent pumps programmed to ensure that patients receive the correct drug at the correct dose and at the correct infusion rate. Patient safety will be dramatically increased with the use of this equipment.

I would like to extend my congratulations to Nancy Coxford, chair of the York Central Hospital Foundation, along with the countless volunteers who have worked tirelessly to make the Stardust Ball such a success. On a personal note, I offer my sincere thanks to Farsad Kiani, honourary chair of the gala, and Julie Fuda, chair of the gala, for their fine work.

ROAD SAFETY

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: Like many members, I have been receiving e-mails from concerned parents and youth who will be seriously disadvantaged by Bill 126 if it is implemented. The new restriction that drivers under the age of 22 are allowed only one passenger at a time in their vehicle does not take into consideration the impact on work, sports and even safety, such as teenagers acting as designated drivers. Especially in rural communities where public transportation is not always available, driving is a necessity.

One young driver wrote to me and said, "As a teenager myself, I can tell you that 'DDing' is a very common thing in Oxford county. A 'DD' is a person that drinks absolutely no alcohol, brings his/her friends to a party, stays there and drives their friends safely home."

With this bill, the likelihood of drinking and driving increases immensely. I'm sure this wasn't the government's intention.

Another constituent of mine wrote: "I believe that it makes no common sense whatsoever to make drivers 21 and under drive in separate vehicles and eliminate carpooling. How are young people supposed to get to work, have designated drivers or travel with their friends?"

People are also pointing out the hypocrisy of this bill. The McGuinty government wants to cut down on carbon emissions, but this will increase the number of vehicles on the road.

This bill targets youth and punishes them without making our roads safer. Preventing carpooling, vacationing and designated driving, while creating more pollution, will be the result of the McGuinty government's poor planning that went into this legislation.

PROSTATE CANCER

Mr. Yasir Naqvi: For a few weeks now, I think some of my colleagues are wondering why I decided to sport a moustache all of a sudden. Some have the view that I'm trying to emulate the Speaker's good, charming looks; others are just too afraid to tell me that maybe that's not the look for me. But I want to share with the members of this Legislature that I'm participating in a charity event called Movember, the month formerly known as November. The idea behind this whole event is to grow a moustache in order to raise awareness about prostate cancer and to raise funds for prostate cancer research.

As we know, prostate cancer is the most common cancer in men. One in seven Canadian men is diagnosed with prostate cancer in their lifetime, and 4,300 Canadian men will die of prostate cancer this year alone. Some of our colleagues themselves have fought, quite bravely, prostate cancer.

I'm very proud of my team, called Moral Support. Two good friends in my riding in Ottawa Centre, Dilip Andrade and Craig Haynes, are part of this team. We're out there in the community, raising funds and awareness about prostate cancer.

I also want to acknowledge some male staff in Minister Watson's and Minister Matthews's offices who are also growing their moustaches for this very good cause. So if you see them in the hallways and think, "Hmm, maybe a moustache is not the thing for you," thank them still for raising awareness for a very good cause.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: It is with great pleasure that I rise in the House today on National Housing Day to share with my colleagues and all Ontarians what the McGuinty government is doing to maintain social housing in Ontario.

In my riding and across Ontario, there are units of social housing that have fallen into disrepair. The previous government downloaded responsibilities for housing to our municipalities and provided zero funding to help maintain the housing stock in Ontario. The McGuinty government is back in the business of affordable housing. Municipalities across the province are busy allocating their share of the $100-million investment in social housing repair funds from the 2008 budget.

With this investment, Ontario municipalities are fixing leaks, repairing plumbing and ensuring units are more energy-efficient by installing new windows and doors. Toronto's share of this funding is $36 million. Toronto's social housing tenants appreciated the government's investment in their housing stock.

On this National Housing Day, I want to congratulate the McGuinty government and the municipalities all over Ontario for investing in affordable housing. During these challenging economic times, investment in affordable housing will help our most vulnerable citizens through some tough times.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr. David Zimmer: I'm pleased to rise today to acknowledge the Ontario Association of Non-Profit Homes and Services for Seniors. It's an independent organization that has effectively represented non-profit providers of long-term-care services and housing for seniors in this province for over 85 years.

I would also like to recognize the Ontario Community Support Association, whose membership consists of 360 not-for-profit home and community care agencies who help seniors and disabled individuals live at home. Both these organizations recognize that the long-term homes sector plays an important role in helping the government achieve its health care objectives. By providing our seniors with the health care attention they deserve, it plays an important role in helping the government maintain its mandate.

Colleagues, it's important that we learn about these organizations and the role they play in providing long-term care. I encourage you all to attend their reception in the Legislative dining room this evening at 5 o'clock. I want to particularly thank Donna Rubin and Susan Thorning, who are representatives of the organizations. They and their organizations are doing great things for Ontario's seniors, and I hope you will all attend the reception.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

FAMILY STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 /

LOI DE 2008 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE

LE DROIT DE LA FAMILLE

Mr. Bentley moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 133,

An Act to amend various Acts in relation to certain family law matters and to repeal the Domestic Violence Protection Act, 2000 / Projet de loi 133, Loi modifiant diverses lois en ce qui concerne des questions de droit de la famille et abrogeant la Loi de 2000 sur la protection contre la violence familiale.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): The Minister for a short statement?

Hon. Christopher Bentley: Defer to ministerial statements, please.

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Hon. Monique M. Smith: I believe we have unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice regarding private members' public business.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Agreed? Agreed.

Hon. Monique M. Smith: We move that, notwithstanding standing order 98(g), notice be waived for ballot item 63.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried

Motion agreed to.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

FAMILY LAW /

DROIT DE LA FAMILLE

Hon. Christopher Bentley: It's my privilege to rise in the House today to propose legislation that would, if passed, better protect and support Ontario children and families in times of family breakdown and distress.

Our new legislation would reform family justice for Ontarians by taking away some of the cost and stress that goes along with the difficult decisions made in our family courts. We are relentless in our determination to reform justice for Ontarians, be it criminal, civil or family, so they can find justice in their most difficult times of need.

Aujourd'hui, les réformes que nous proposons viennent en aide aux familles de l'Ontario, en particulier les femmes et les enfants, pendant qu'elles traversent certains des moments les plus pénibles et les plus personnels qu'elles rencontreront.

Our proposed reforms help Ontario families, particularly women and children, through some of the most painful and personal circumstances they will know. No one should live in fear in their own homes, which is why we're responding to over a decade of calls to change restraining order laws by expanding eligibility to protect those who've lived together for fewer than three years.

Our proposed legislation will also allow us to prosecute restraining order breaches under the Criminal Code. This change would allow for tougher enforcement by our police partners, and the accused would face stricter bail conditions. It's noteworthy that we're introducing this during Woman Abuse Prevention Month.

Those who speak out on behalf of the victims of woman abuse have wanted this reform for over a decade and there are many in this House—in fact, all in this House, of all parties, have stood and called for reform for over a decade and we're answering that call. I thank all my colleagues from every party for the tireless advocacy that they have been engaged in over the years. I thank the member from Durham—Mrs. Munro was here at the announcement—the member from Whitby—Oshawa, as well as my colleagues Minister Matthews, Minister Pupatello and Laurel Broten for their long-standing advocacy in bringing this today.

I would also like to take the opportunity to acknowledge the many participants in the system of justice, in all the galleries—people who have tirelessly advocated for reform for years and are seeing it come to fruition. Without the tireless advocacy of all of them, we wouldn't be here today.

A child is our most precious gift. The loss of a child, in tragic circumstances, shakes us with sadness and anger and moves us to ask: Why did this happen and what more can we do?

We entrust our courts with the responsibility of deciding what's in the best interests of a child when a non-parent wants custody. Before, very little evidence was required before this decision concerning our most vulnerable could be made. Now, if there's evidence of a violent history relevant to the ability to care for a child, we want the court to know about it. That's why our proposed reforms would protect children by requiring a sworn statement, and for non-parents, children's aid society information and the police records check, something specifically mentioned from a question earlier by the member from Whitby—Oshawa.

There's something else we're going to do for children. We propose to require annual financial disclosure where child support orders exist, making it easier to obtain fair child support payments. This change is another step toward making sure that good parents pay, and it will also go a long way to reducing family court battles and freeing up court time. Dans les cas de rupture de mariage, rien n'est plaisant ou facile. Our proposed reforms would allow families to spend less time and money on family court proceedings and more on getting on with life.

One of our most valuable assets to be divided between spouses is often a pension. The legal status quo is not clear about how to deal with pensions in circumstances of family breakdown, which adds to the stress and cost of prolonged court disputes. That's why, together with the Minister of Finance and pension experts and officials as well as the bar, we're proposing changes to clarify the division of pensions when marriages break down. By helping to sort out the value of pensions, we'll also free up valuable time in our courts. I'd like to make special mention of the great work done by the Law Commission of Ontario in proposing much of what will be found in the reforms.

Many of the changes today are the product of years of work by our justice partners in the Family Law Working Group, the bar association, Catulpa, the law society, the Advocates' Society and so many others. They're here with us today and we owe them a debt of gratitude.

This legislation will make the law fairer for families going through the anguish of marriage breakdown. It will reform family law to make it simpler and less expensive, strengthen the rules to help protect women and children, and I ask the members of this House to join me in supporting the proposed legislation.

FAMILY LAW

Mrs. Julia Munro: I am very pleased to be able to respond to today's announcement. We are happy to see that the government has, through this proposed legislation, addressed some of the very serious concerns and flaws in our current system. We're also very happy to see that the government is acting on the suggestions we made over the summer regarding non-parent child custodies.

On Sunday, August 3, 2008, seven-year-old Katelynn Sampson was found dead in the apartment of her guardian, Donna Irving. Irving was granted full and final custody of Katelynn Sampson this year; despite having many criminal convictions. Katelynn was supposed to be placed in Irving's custody while Sampson's biological mother straightened out her life.

Immediately after Katelynn Sampson's death, we as a caucus called for mandatory criminal checks in cases where someone other than the child's parent is applying for custody and the mandatory appointment of the Children's Lawyer to independently represent the child in these cases. Obviously we are pleased and certainly appreciate the recognition that we had made to the discussion. In looking back over the high-profile cases of Jeffrey Baldwin and Katelynn Sampson, it becomes clear to everyone that many of the problems that had existed with the earlier case contributed in some ways to the Sampson case.

In the Baldwin case, the court was never made aware of his grandmother's criminal record; there was no requirement for the judge to ask. But I do have a question in the sense that Baldwin's grandparents were convicted over two years ago and the government waited, but they didn't wait for the court proceedings against Donna Irving to end before they announced these changes. I think it's a legitimate question, then, to ask why the difference in approach?

The announcement today is obviously one piece of the problem. Unfortunately, more than one ministry failed poor Katelynn Sampson. Today in the House, Joyce Savoline asked the Minister of Education what investigations, if any, had been conducted into the school's failure to contact authorities and report Katelynn Sampson's prolonged absence prior to her death. People will remember that she had been absent from school for two months and that the wounds on her body were not all fresh. She was clearly struggling in the months leading up to her death.

We recognize that today's announcement is a good first step, but we obviously have questions that will need to be answered as this legislation proceeds. Clearly, enforcement is the paramount piece. With all of these initiatives that are being proposed in this legislation comes the issue around enforcement. I think that part of that enforcement is also going to mean a significant allocation of funding, even in the areas, for instance, of training and being able to measure outcomes, to be able to say that we have in fact taken steps that are going to make a difference in people's lives.

There are some of the challenges around things like an annual financial disclosure. What happens if they don't show up? What happens if this kind of process breaks down? These are obviously things that the government is going to have to address.

I think one of the areas that is also very important to look at, as has been raised in the areas of pensions and custody, is access to the courts. Certainly, this is something that we have heard over and over again from people who are struggling through divorces and ongoing consultations and court hearings for custody. These are things that, frankly, bankrupt people and therefore, as a part of that, restrict the access.

In the final moment, I would just remind everyone that at the end of the day, we're talking about children who are abused, and that abuse is for life. We know the stats. They remain victims or they become abusers themselves. This is the task at hand.

FAMILY LAW

Mr. Peter Kormos: Like everyone else in this chamber, we in the NDP take these matters very, very seriously. We believe that this is an opportunity, in the course of the process of this bill, through second reading and then into committee, to have some pretty extensive committee hearings. At the same time, we're concerned that this bill contains but half measures that don't fully address a very serious problem. In the short time allotted to it, Ms. Horwath is going to address this as children's critic for the NDP.

A restraining order is only a piece of paper to a violent party who has no intention of being bound by it. We've seen that far too often. After the deed has been done, after the assault has taken place, after the murder has been accomplished, calling the police does little to protect that woman or child. So we can't just talk about more accessible restraining orders. We have to talk about shelters for abused women. We have to talk about second-stage housing.

We have to talk about the fact that most women who flee violent households are forced into a poverty that leaves them in a position where they're unable to care for their children. That's a great amount of leverage, and it has been used many a time to force a woman who's a victim back into that abusive home.

If you talk about the proposals with respect to the considerations for a court when considering an application for custody of a child, my goodness, to merely change the existing check-off-the-box application form with one where you check off the boxes and then swear it to be true doesn't seem to me to accomplish a great deal. We have to have, in the view of the NDP, an on-site inspection and the involvement of a professional, whether they're from child and family services or a similar child protection agency, to conduct subjective evaluations so that recommendations can be made to the court.

A criminal record check, in and of itself, is not sufficient. A sworn application, in and of itself, is not sufficient. Those children who are the subjects of custody applications deserve and ought to have the full protection of that court. If they can't get it in that court, then where else are they going to get it?

We can't talk about protecting children unless we talk about major reforms to legal aid in Ontario so that, more often than not, women and children have access to legal counsel, because the reality is that there are precious few competent family lawyers who can afford to practise family law in our family courts on legal aid certificates.

We need adequate staffing of family clinics, and we need competent and experienced duty counsels working in our family courts. You've got to understand that the family courts here in Toronto and across this province have become but sausage factories. Cases are being processed so quickly and the pressures on the court, on the judges, on the staff, are so great that we're confident that there are lapses on a daily basis and children are being put at risk.

In the course of discussing this proposal, we have to talk about ensuring that we have adequate numbers of judges, that we have judges who are focused solely on family law matters, so they can develop the expertise and the sensitivities that are necessary. We need legal representation for people in those courts. We need an active and more aggressive Office of the Children's Lawyer from the Ministry of the Attorney General. We need on-site examinations by trained professionals who can assist the court by making recommendations about the competency of the proposed custodial parent to fulfill that role in every respect.

FAMILY LAW

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I just want to echo the comments made by my colleague from the Welland riding.

The reality is, this is but a small piece of the puzzle, and this government knows this darned well, because during its term of office there have been a number of significant domestic violence cases that it has ignored, in terms of making real change. We have a Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services who is not prepared to call an inquest into the brutal murder of a young boy in Brantford. We have the death of Lori Dupont, resulting in jury recommendations that this government still has not acted on. The situation of domestic violence is epidemic in this province, yet the government has not acted quickly enough or far enough.

Absolutely, we'll look at the one piece of one side of the equation that is in these recommendations carefully, and we'll look for those committee hearings. But start acting on the things that will help women and their children flee situations of domestic violence: transitional housing, affordable housing, in neighbourhoods. That's what we need. That's what this government needs to act on.

PETITIONS

WORKPLACE INSURANCE

Mr. Norm Miller: I have received more petitions to do with Bill 119 and I shall read it.

"Whereas the McGuinty government has introduced Bill 119, Workplace Safety and Insurance Amendment Act, 2008, which makes WSIB mandatory for independent operators, partners and executive officers in construction; and

"Whereas this bill will cost the average business owner about $11,000 while doing nothing to catch cheaters in the underground economy; and

"Whereas this bill will do nothing to make workers safer in the workplace; and

"Whereas there has been insufficient consultation with construction companies and stakeholders to discuss the impact of this bill or other alternatives; and

"Whereas the McGuinty government refuses to allow discussion of this bill with the affected parties through the committee process;

"Now therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To revoke Bill 119 or to require the Standing Committee on Social Policy to travel across the province of Ontario in order to provide an opportunity for consultation with affected businesses."

I support this petition.

WORKPLACE HARASSMENT

Ms. Andrea Horwath: "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas workplace harassment (physical/psychological) and violence are linked to the mental and physical ill-health and safety of workers in Ontario; and

"Whereas harassment and violence need to be defined as violations of the Occupational Health and Safety Act so that it is dealt with as quickly and earnestly by employers as other health and safety issues; and

"Whereas employers will have a legal avenue and/or a legal obligation to deal with workplace harassment and violence in all its forms, including psychological harassment; and

"Whereas harassment poisons the workplace, taking many forms—verbal/physical abuse, sabotage, intimidation, bullying, sexism and racism, and should not be tolerated; and

"Whereas harassment in any form harms a target's physical and mental health, esteem and productivity, and contributes to trauma and stress on the job; and

"Whereas Bill 29 would make it the law to protect workers from workplace harassment by giving workers the right to refuse work after harassment has occurred, requiring the investigation of allegations of workplace-related harassment and oblige employers to take steps to prevent further occurrences of workplace-related harassment;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to treat workplace harassment and violence as a serious health and safety issue by passing MPP Andrea Horwath's Bill 29, which would bring workplace harassment and violence under the scope of the Occupational Health and Safety Act."

I agree with this; I'm sending it to the table by way of page Sara.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Bob Delaney: I have a petition to the Ontario Legislative Assembly. It's signed by a number of people, primarily in Erin Mills, and others from Oakville and Burlington. I especially want to thank Magda Moore of Berwell Road in Erin Mills for having sent this to me. It reads as follows:

"Whereas wait times for access to surgical procedures in the western GTA area served by the Mississauga Halton LHIN are growing despite the vigorous capital project activity at the hospitals within the Mississauga Halton LHIN boundaries; and

"Whereas 'day surgery' procedures could be performed in an off-site facility, thus greatly increasing the ability of surgeons to perform more procedures, alleviating wait times for patients, and freeing up operating theatre space in hospitals for more complex procedures that may require post-operative intensive care unit support and a longer length of stay in hospital;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care allocate funds in its 2008-09 capital budget to begin planning and construction of an ambulatory surgery centre located in western Mississauga to serve the Mississauga-Halton area and enable greater access to 'day surgery' procedures that comprise about four fifths of all surgical procedures performed."

I agree wholeheartedly with this petition. I'm pleased to sign and support it and to ask page Jenna to carry it for me.

CHILD CARE

Ms. Sylvia Jones: My petition is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the Minister of Community and Social Services, Madeleine Meilleur, has decided that grandparents caring for their grandchildren no longer qualify for temporary care assistance; and

"Whereas the removal of the temporary care assistance could mean that children will be forced into foster care; and

"Whereas the temporary care assistance amounted to $231 per month, much less than a foster family would receive to look after the same children if they were forced into foster care;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately reverse the decision to remove temporary care assistance for grandparents looking after their grandchildren."

I support this petition and am pleased to affix my signature to it.

HOSPITAL SERVICES

Ms. Andrea Horwath: I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the Hamilton Health Sciences centre proposal to restructure health sciences includes plans to provide a children-only emergency room at the McMaster site;

"Whereas the closure of the Chedoke urgent care site has left over 170,000 Hamilton residents with the McMaster emergency room as the closest available emergency urgent care facility;

"Whereas there are over 170,000 residents in Hamilton that will be adversely affected by the closure of the McMaster emergency room;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health take all necessary steps to ensure that the LHIN postpone their decision for 60 days to allow for HHC to engage in 'comprehensive' consultations to answer the concerns of the many residents" of the Hamilton area "who are affected by this decision."

I support this, have signed it and send it with Tess to the table.

POPE JOHN PAUL II

Mr. Bob Delaney: I am pleased to read this petition. It's addressed to the Parliament of Ontario, and it is a petition that I've been reading, along with my colleague from Newmarket—Aurora. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the legacy of Pope John Paul II reflects his lifelong commitment to international understanding, peace and the defence of equality and human rights;

"Whereas his legacy has an all-embracing meaning that is particularly relevant to Canada's multi-faith and multicultural traditions;

"Whereas, as one of the great spiritual leaders of contemporary times, Pope John Paul II visited Ontario during his pontificate of more than 25 years and, on his visits, was enthusiastically greeted by Ontario's diverse religious and cultural communities;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario to grant speedy passage into law of the private member's bill entitled

An Act to proclaim Pope John Paul II Day."

There are a great many people from the city of Mississauga who have signed this. I join them in signing it, and ask page Sara to carry it for me.

INNISFIL EARLY YEARS CENTRE

Mrs. Julia Munro: "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas on September 15, 2008, Simcoe Community Services announced that due to lack of funding by the Ministry of Children and Youth Services, the Ontario Early Years Centre Innisfil satellite location located at 8000 Yonge Street in Innisfil, Ontario, will be closing on November 30, 2008;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We respectfully request that the province of Ontario and its funding partners take any and all means necessary to provide an adequate level of funding on a consistent, ongoing basis to Simcoe Community Services for the purpose of keeping the Ontario Early Years Centre Innisfil satellite location open to the parents, caregivers and children of the town of Innisfil and surrounding communities."

As I am in agreement, I have affixed my signature and give it to Jason.

LUPUS

Mr. Bob Delaney: There seems to be a small fraternity reading petitions today. I'm pleased to read this petition submitted by my seatmate, the hard-working member from Niagara Falls. It's addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas systemic lupus erythematosus is under-recognized as a global health problem by the public, health professionals and governments, driving the need for greater awareness;

"Whereas medical research on lupus and efforts to develop safer and more effective therapies for the disease are underfunded in comparison to diseases of comparable magnitude and severity;

"Whereas no safe and effective drugs for lupus have been introduced in more than 40 years. Current drugs for lupus are very toxic and can cause other life-threatening health problems that can be worse than the primary disease;

"We, the undersigned, hereby petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to assist financially with media campaigns to bring about knowledge of systemic lupus erythematosus and the signs and symptoms of this disease to all citizens of Ontario.

"We further petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to provide funding for research currently being undertaken in lupus clinics throughout Ontario."

I'm pleased to support the member for Niagara Falls, to affix my signature to this petition and to ask page Sarah to carry it for me.

HOSPICES

Ms. Sophia Aggelonitis: I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas hospices on church or hospital property do not pay taxes;

"Whereas hospices are not-for-profit organizations providing emotional, spiritual and bereavement support and respite care to terminally ill individuals and their family members;

"Whereas a residential hospice (usually an eight- to 10-bed home-like facility) provides around-the-clock care to terminally ill individuals and support to their families;

"Whereas hospice services are provided free of charge;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to allow hospices across the province to be exempt from municipal taxes."

I agree with this and will send it with page Sarah to the table.

LOGGING ROUTE

Mr. Norm Miller: I have a petition to do with logging through the village of Restoule, and it reads:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Nipissing forest management plan proposes to use Hawthorne Drive in Restoule, which features a single-lane bridge and narrow and steep sections; and

"Whereas area residents have grave concerns about community safety, traffic speed, truck noise and general wear and tear of Hawthorne Drive and the bridge in the village of Restoule; and

"Whereas the proposed route travels past the Restoule Canadian Legion and two churches; and

"Whereas alternative routes are possible via Odorizzi Road and Block 09-056;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario put the safety and concerns of the people of Restoule ahead of logging interests and ensure an alternate route is selected for the Nipissing forest management plan."

I support this petition.

CHILD CUSTODY

Mr. Jim Brownell: I have a petition from a number of constituents in my riding of Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the people of Ontario, deserve and have the right to request an amendment to the Children's Law Reform Act to emphasize the importance of children's relationships with their parents and grandparents.

"Whereas subsection 20(2.1) requires parents and others with custody of children to refrain from unreasonably placing obstacles to personal relations between the children and their grandparents; and

"Whereas subsection 24(2) contains a list of matters that a court must consider when determining the best interests of a child. The bill amends that subsection to include a specific reference to the importance of maintaining emotional ties between children and grandparents; and

"Whereas subsection 24(2.1) requires a court that is considering custody of or access to a child to give effect to the principle that a child should have as much contact with each parent and grandparent as is consistent with the best interests of the child; and

"Whereas subsection 24(2.2) requires a court that is considering custody of a child to take into consideration each applicant's willingness to facilitate as much contact between the child and each parent and grandparent as is consistent with the best interests of the child;

"We, the undersigned, hereby petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to amend the Children's Law Reform Act" as above "to emphasize the importance of children's relationships with their parents and grandparents."

As I agree with this petition, I shall sign it and send it with Brittney.

EMERGENCY DISPATCH SERVICES

Mr. Norm Miller: I have a petition to do with 911 services in Parry Sound and Muskoka. It reads:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care is considering relocating emergency ambulance and fire dispatch services currently provided by Muskoka Ambulance Communications Service to the city of Barrie; and

"Whereas up to 40% of all calls received are from cellphones from people unfamiliar with the area; and

"Whereas Parry Sound—Muskoka residents have grave concerns about the effect on emergency response times if dispatch services are provided by dispatchers who are not familiar with the area; and

"Whereas 16 Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care-funded jobs, held by qualified communication officers from local communities, may be lost as a result of the relocation of dispatch services to the city of Barrie,

"Now therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario put the safety, health and economic concerns of the people of Parry Sound—Muskoka ahead of government efficiency interests and ensure that emergency dispatch services continue to be provided locally by Muskoka Ambulance Communications Service."

I support this petition.

TOM LONGBOAT

Mr. Mike Colle: I have a petition to recognize June 4 as Tom Longboat Day in Ontario.

"Whereas Tom Longboat, a proud son of the Onondaga Nation, was one of the most internationally celebrated athletes in Canadian history;

"Whereas Tom Longboat was voted as the number one Canadian athlete of the 20th century by Maclean's magazine for his record-breaking marathon and long-distance triumphs against the world's best;

"Whereas Tom Longboat fought for his country in World War I and was wounded twice during his tour of duty;

"Whereas Tom Longboat is a proud symbol of the outstanding achievements and contributions of Canada's aboriginal people;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to recognize June 4 as Tom Longboat Day in Ontario."

I affix my name to this petition, as I support it.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

COMMITTEE SITTINGS

Hon. Monique M. Smith: I move that, notwithstanding the order of the House dated May 1, 2008, for the purpose of conducting its 2009 pre-Budget consultation, the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs shall have authority to meet and adjourn from place to place in Ontario during the week of December 15, 2008.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Debate?

Mr. Wayne Arthurs: Probably normally most members would rise and say that they're pleased to be on their feet to speak to this motion or it's a privilege and honour to be able to speak to a motion. Let me just say on this one, I have the opportunity to speak to this motion.

As I understand it, this is a substantive motion that allows for up to eight and a half hours of debate. The critical part of the motion provides for the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs to have the authority to meet and adjourn from place to place in Ontario during the week of December 15, 2008. I know that there are probably those in the Legislature, certainly past and maybe present, who could probably have any number of us sitting on the very edge of our chairs during a long and intense debate over whether or not a committee should meet and adjourn from place to place during December.

There are those, probably, who would be sitting on the edge of their chairs listening raptly to all of the reasons why, or their blood pressure would be rising and they would be anxious to jump into the fray. I certainly wouldn't want to include myself among the history of orators in this place who could bring a motion of this nature to that kind of life.

But it does give me an opportunity, as part of the motion, to speak, probably extensively, on the processes that we have the opportunity to use in this place by virtue of coming to some conclusion on how we'll conduct ourselves as a legislative committee. This matter is before us today primarily because we don't have the unanimous agreement of the three parties on when we should travel in Ontario. There's certainly no disagreement that we need to have pre-budget consultations; as a matter of fact, we have already begun that process.

We began that process formally as a standing committee last Thursday, in which we spent the morning, prior to question period, and the afternoon as a standing committee, with all three parties that day, hearing from those in Ontario who were able or wanting to present here at Toronto. That was the first of our hearings. Given the opportunity a little later, I may just comment on the variety of deputations, the witnesses that we heard from as recently as last week.

We are scheduled currently to meet on December 4 and December 11 here in this place, at the Legislative Assembly, in the committee rooms just below us to continue that process of hearing from Ontarians, from organizations in Ontario—principally organizations. It's not the norm that we get large numbers of individuals wanting to present to the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs on the pre-budget consultations for the development of a provincial budget. More often than not, it's organizations that want to be able to present to us.

I'm going to use some of the time to talk a little bit about the kind of process that we use. I'm going to go into a little more specific detail because this does require that through the work of all three parties—on the standing committee, we do have nine members, and from that, we draw one member from each of the three parties to act as a subcommittee.

I know that virtually everyone in this place is aware of those kinds of procedures, but there will be lots out there who may be watching us—the member from Trinity—Spadina often likes to say, "It's 8 or 9 o'clock in the evening, and you may want to tune in in 15 minutes because I'll be speaking then for 20 minutes" or 30 minutes or an hour, as the case might be.

So for all those folks out there who may be tuned into the legislative channels who aren't aware of the procedures that we might use in this place to come to some conclusion on some of the things we do, it might be of some general interest, because it's not haphazard and it doesn't happen by accident how we get to the places we get to.

The subcommittee report that was prepared was presented to the full committee at the beginning of its hearings last Thursday. I had the opportunity to present the subcommittee report, and it went like this:

Chairman, "Your subcommittee met on Thursday, October 30, 2008, to consider the method of proceeding on pre-budget consultations 2009, and recommends the following...." That was the preparatory clause that was presented so that people were aware of what it was that we were going to do. It was a result of that subcommittee meeting that this particular motion came before the committee with all of its addendum clauses.

Let me go through some of them; I could go through all of them:

First: "That the committee hold pre-budget consultations in Toronto on Thursday, November 20, 2008, Thursday, December 4, 2008, and Thursday, December 11, 2008." That's just the first subclause, and each of these had to be read into the record at the beginning of the committee hearing. So there's probably no particular reason why the entire Legislature, all of whom are here today, shouldn't have the opportunity to hear our subcommittee report as well.

We agreed on those three dates. As I said before, the first day was last Thursday—we read this into the record at that time—and we're scheduled to meet again on Thursday, December 4.

The second bullet point says: "That the committee request authorization from the House leaders to meet during the week of December 15, 2008." That's the substantive part of the motion we have before us today: that we meet during the week of December 15, 2008.

The third bullet point references: "That the committee hold pre-budget consultations in Niagara Falls, Windsor, Sudbury, Thunder Bay and Ottawa during the week of December 15, 2008."

That's not part of the motion we have before us, but it is a result of the subcommittee discussion that went on, trying to see which communities in Ontario we felt it would be appropriate for the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs to travel to this year to hear from a fairly broad cross-section of Ontarians, that covered some considerable geography and, in essence, tried to touch upon various parts of this province, as the committee does on an annual basis.

In doing that, each of the parties in the discussion had an opportunity to put forward locations that they felt they might want to travel to, that their caucus may feel they should be travelling to or where they felt there would be a large representation of interest in the province. By some consensus, we came to agreement on what those locations might and should be.

You can see from the listing of five that we, as a subcommittee, have put forward this year that we are travelling from the very southerly part of the province, on the Niagara peninsula—Niagara Falls—to Windsor, one of the manufacturing heartlands of this province. We know the struggles and tribulations that manufacturing is going through, so it's important and appropriate that we travel to locations of that nature. Often, some of the organizations that would like to speak to us find it more appropriate, and obviously easier, to meet in their communities than travel here to Toronto.

It also provides an opportunity, obviously, for the local media and local citizenry and/or supporters of the organizations to be in attendance at those hearings, which might not otherwise be quite as convenient here in Toronto.

We also want to travel on an annual basis—at least in my limited time, we have tried to travel throughout the province, and we've tried to travel to northern Ontario. Some would suggest that Sudbury is not northern Ontario. I would suggest that probably most of the folks north of Sudbury would sometimes think of Sudbury as being in southern Ontario. We certainly heard that on occasion in some of the more northerly communities. Thus, we make efforts to travel to communities such as Sudbury and Thunder Bay.

Often it's said that we should be travelling to small communities. We've done that in my limited time as well; we've travelled to smaller communities. But there are constraints at times in doing that. There are a couple of things that factor in to it. One is that smaller communities have a rather limited population base to work from. We found, on occasion, that the level of interest from the communities is not substantial enough to fill up a complete day of hearings, and thus we end up having people travel larger distances, who could not be accommodated elsewhere, to arrive at these less populated smaller communities to make their deputation.

From a practical standpoint, particularly as we travel in northern Ontario, it's important to find centres of activity that have ready transportation for those who have to travel back and forth, and that have a sufficient population base and organizational base of communities of interest to give us the input we need, particularly when you're talking about budgetary considerations, either for public services or from tax standpoints or what the economy is like at this point. Larger communities give us a broader cross-section, at times, of what's happening in a bigger geography.

There are some practical constraints too in where we can travel from the standpoint of smaller communities, particularly in northern Ontario, where we're travelling long distances. I'll give you an example.

My first year on the committee when we travelled was, I believe, three years ago. As the committee had its discussions, we thought it would be appropriate to travel to Atikokan, in northwestern Ontario. The travel at that time was in late January and/or early February. We travelled from Toronto on two very small planes. As a matter of fact, the planes were small enough that we had to gas up or fuel up in Sault Ste. Marie because they couldn't carry enough fuel, with the seven or eight passengers that that particular plane would hold, to get us to Atikokan.

We arrived in Atikokan and we were fortunate that the weather was relatively co-operative for that time of the year, because you can imagine in a relatively small airport, there's really no such thing as a hangar. I think there was, if I recall, a small building on-site; certainly no staffing of that particular facility. You called ahead and were met at the site by someone who could transport you to the location we were staying at some 30 miles or so, I think, or 20-odd miles, outside the town of Atikokan.

It was a great trip. It was wonderful to see that small community. But at the end of January, flying in two small planes into a relatively small airport and wondering whether we were going to get out the next day so that we could make the next stop on the tour presented its own challenges. As a matter of fact, after we landed, the plane left and I think went to Thunder Bay so it could be hangared for the night. They were obviously concerned about icing occurring, and if it had stayed in Atikokan overnight, we wouldn't have been able to de-ice because they don't have facilities, and thus we might not have gotten out of there.

So we make choices, as a subcommittee and committee, about the nature of travel around not only what communities it would be interesting to attend, but what communities it is practical, in part, for us to attend.

The fourth item on our subcommittee report: "That the committee clerk, in consultation with the Chair, post information regarding pre-budget consultations on the Ontario parliamentary channel and the committee's website."

Now, this is a pretty straightforward thing and it's pretty well agreed upon that we need to, obviously, get information out there as readily as we can about the nature of the work that the committee is going to do, the nature of the locations it's going to travel to and the timing of those locations so that people and organizations can begin thinking about whether or not they want to present. In many cases, they've already made up their mind in that regard, but it does frame it a little bit as to the time they might have available to them.

Again, when you read this stuff and you look at it, you think this is pretty straightforward, but each year, as we have the debate among the subcommittee, there is discussion around the nature and the extent of the advertising. We talk about whether we advertise in a single major newspaper or we advertise in two major newspapers. Do we advertise in community newspapers or just major dailies? Do we advertise in all communities in both official languages? Do we advertise in any papers in other than the two official languages?

Now, on paper, at the end of the day, it might seem like something pretty straightforward. Often the matters of structure and advertising become a matter of discussion among the three party members.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Talk about the economy.

Mr. Wayne Arthurs: I hear members opposite talking about, "What about the economy?" The motion before us, to stay to the motion before us, speaks to the committee on finance and economic affairs having the authority to meet and adjourn from place to place in Ontario during the week of December 15, and thus we're talking about the reasons and the rationale and the strategies by which we got to those decisions.

Sixth is, "That each party provide the committee clerk with the name of one expert witness and one alternate no later than November 27, 2008."

Each year, the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs deliberately seeks out the opinions of experts. We don't solely ask the public at large and organizations if they want to make representation as witnesses, but we seek out experts in the field. Each of the three parties allocates an expert witness, and they come with different perspectives on the economy, and it makes for a very interesting part of the debate that goes on at that point in time. So each of the parties goes away to identify their expert witnesses and an alternate, to ensure that we have folks available.

This activity just doesn't happen casually. You don't suddenly decide to have a committee meeting one day and expect everyone to show up and for it to run smoothly. It's only when you have, ideally, full agreement that things work the best.

Seventh: "That expert witnesses be offered 15 minutes for their presentation, and be given five minutes of questioning from each political party."

We get pretty specific about how we articulate what it is that we want witnesses to be able to present, from the standpoint of time frame, and specific about what each party will be able to do from the standpoint of asking questions or commenting on the activities of the expert witness at this point in time.

The expert witnesses, we agree, can be quite concise when they're asked to be. If you gave them each an hour, they would be able, I'm sure, to fill that hour, providing us with information; if you gave them two hours, they could provide us with two hours of information. We've found, at least of late, that in this year, by this motion, 15 minutes is an adequate time for them to be concise in the context of that committee work, and provides an opportunity for each party to be able to ask questions of that particular expert.

Eighth on our subcommittee report: "That expert witnesses be scheduled to appear before the committee in Toronto on Thursday, December 4, 2008, or Thursday, December 11, 2008, subject to their availability."

It would seem to be, "Well, just whenever they're available," but that's not the case. We have to have some agreement as to when best to hear those expert witnesses and where to hear those expert witnesses. This particular year, we decided that we would offer them two dates on which they could appear before the committee, and sent the committee clerk off to do that work.

As it turns out, two of those expert witnesses were available on one of those dates and the third was available on the alternate date. The committee clerk came back to the subcommittee members to advise us of that, because there might have been some expectation in our minds that it might be easy to coordinate all of these three individuals and organizations on the same day. We have agreed, as we laid out in our subcommittee report, that we would hear them on the days that they were available to us.

Ninth: "That interested people who wish to be considered to make an oral presentation in Toronto contact the committee clerk by 5 p.m. on ... November 17, 2008." So in late October, we set out a time frame of about two and a half weeks, as the advertisement was being done in the parliamentary channel and the like, for people in Toronto to get to the clerk by a specific deadline if they wanted to make representation before the committee.

Interestingly enough, each of the parties, through the committee clerk or independently, was contacted by organizations that would have missed that deadline. The question was: "Well, I missed the deadline, you know. We just missed it by an hour. We were busy doing other things. Do you think that if you had unanimous agreement among the three parties, we could be heard on that day?"

That causes its own difficulties, because we may have one or we may have 10 organizations. There was actually one or more who were rejected for exactly that reason. We advised those groups that we will be travelling and they have an opportunity to make their submission to be heard at an alternate location, but not at their preferred location and not on their preferred date.

I don't, off the top of my head, recall the numbers, but there was sufficient interest in the Toronto location that we had to prioritize the list of those who wanted to speak. We do that regularly, as well. Each party takes a look at the list; we have a fairly long list to prioritize. We give a list of alternates. The clerk takes it all, blends it all together, and to the extent possible, accommodates all of those people. And there wi