First Session, 43rd Parliament

Official Report

of Debates

( Hansard )

Thursday, February 27, 2025

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 11

The Honourable Raj Chouhan , Speaker

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

Contents

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Members’ Statements

Delta Police Pipe Band

Ian Paton

Ramadan

Amna Shah

Gladys Radek and Tears to Hope Society

Claire Rattée

Quw’utsun Secondary School

Debra Toporowski / Qwulti’stunaat

Black History Month

Rob Botterell

Effort and Process Versus Outcome

Sunita Dhir

Oral Questions

Emergency Services at Hospitals

John Rustad

Hon. Josie Osborne

Tony Luck

Funding for South Vancouver Island 911 Emergency Dispatch Services

Rob Botterell

Hon. Garry Begg

Emergency Services at Hospitals

Donegal Wilson

Hon. Josie Osborne

Brennan Day

Lorne Doerkson

Kiel Giddens

Jody Toor

Linda Hepner

Reann Gasper

Anna Kindy

Scott McInnis

Tara Armstrong

Jordan Kealy

Claire Rattée

Larry Neufeld

Ian Paton

Amelia Boultbee

Pete Davis

Rosalyn Bird

Access to Health Care Services and Safety of Hospital Workers

Trevor Halford

Hon. Josie Osborne

Tabling Documents

Office of the Auditor General, Child Care Licensing Capacity, February 2025

Orders of the Day

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 4 — Business Practices and Consumer Protection Amendment Act, 2025

Hon. Niki Sharma

Steve Kooner

Hon. Brenda Bailey

Thursday, February 27, 2025

The House met at 10:03 a.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: Korky Neufeld.

Introductions by Members

Hon. Josie Osborne : It’s my pleasure to introduce five representatives from the Hospital Employees Union

who are joining us in the gallery today. They are the president Barb Nederpel; care

aides Victoria Harper, Jenny Ratan and Dolly Boulalakha; and nurse Joanne Safstrom.

The Hospital Employees Union is the biggest health care union here in British Columbia,

with more than 60,000 members. Since 1944 the HEU has been advocating for these members,

valuable members of our health care system here in B.C.

I’m so grateful for all the work they do. I’m looking forward to meeting with them

after today’s question period.

[10:05 a.m.]

I ask the House to please make them feel very welcome here today.

John Rustad : I don’t often get a chance to do introductions for people coming down from my riding,

especially for my wife.

Kim Royle is here today visiting in the chamber. It’s great to be able to have her

down here. I wish she could come down all the time, but somebody else has to make

sure that Biardi is looked after at home, so she does a good job for me there.

In any case, would the House please make her welcome.

Hon. Christine Boyle : I have two introductions.

The first. I am very pleased to introduce a large delegation in the gallery from Métis

Nation B.C. led by Walter Mineault, who is the new president of Métis Nation B.C.

I would like to send my congratulations again to Walter and my appreciation for the

time that we’ve had to spend together. I know you had a busy, packed few days of meetings,

but glad to have you here.

Will the House please join me in making sure they feel welcome.

Second, I want to make sure it’s on everyone’s minds that a powerful documentary called

Sugarcane , filmed in B.C., is nominated for an Oscar this weekend, on Sunday. It’s an incredible

tribute to the resilience of Indigenous communities, First Nations communities in

B.C. and particularly a number of powerful leaders from Williams Lake who did an incredible

job telling this personal story and lifting up the intergenerational impacts of residential

schools and the power of community and culture in bringing people together to do that

healing.

I hope as folks are watching the Oscars, you’re thinking about the importance of that

story and rooting on local filmmakers and the incredible film and television sector

here as well as First Nations and Indigenous leaders doing that important healing.

Rob Botterell : I am pleased to welcome the British Columbia Black History Awareness Society, a non-profit

organization formed in 1994 to celebrate the historical and contemporary achievements

and contributions of persons of African ancestry to B.C. and Canada.

Jamila Douhaibi is the executive director of the British Columbia Black History Awareness

Society. Through her work, Jamila engages the community on the importance of Black

history and on celebrating the past, present and future contributions of Black people

in this province.

Please join me in welcoming Jamila and the B.C. Black History Awareness Society to

the Legislature.

Donegal Wilson : I would like to take this opportunity to welcome two members from my community of

Keremeos. Christina Quaedvlieg is my executive assistant and is here today to join

us, as well as my closest friend, Kathy Burke. She’s been there for many an adventure.

Thank you.

Please make them feel welcome.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I see in the gallery that Neil Moody and Jenny Scott are here from the Canadian Home

Builders Association. They do fantastic work to help us increase housing supply, address

the challenges we’re seeing in our housing crisis.

I want to welcome them to the House, and I hope they have good meetings with members

in this building.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : Sometime in the last week or so, my grandmother turned 95 years old. I say “sometime

in the last week or so” because she actually tracks her birthday by the lunar calendar,

and I never learned to read it.

Would the House please join me in wishing my grandmother a 95th birthday.

Scott McInnis : I just want to echo the minister’s congratulations and welcome to the Métis Nation

B.C. delegation that is here.

[10:10 a.m.]

I really look forward to meeting with you this afternoon.

I did want to draw attention to one executive member specifically, and that’s Ms.

Deb Fisher, region 4 director. There’s not a person in the Columbia Valley affiliated

with education who doesn’t know the great work that Debra has done for nearly 30 years

working with Indigenous youth.

She and her husband, Ken, have fostered 35 children into their home over the last

several decades. Everybody in Columbia River–Revelstoke knows Debra and just has a

special place in their heart.

Debra, it’s just wonderful to see you here today. Thank you for coming. I look forward

to meeting with you later.

Thank you, everybody.

Hon. Jodie Wickens : Today is a special day in my ministry office. Today is Desmond Pollard’s birthday.

Desmond is my chief of staff and he has provided me with exceptional support in my

new role, as he is also providing exceptional support to my colleague from Beacon

Hill. We both want to wish him a very happy birthday today. He works tirelessly for

children and youth in this province, and I want to recognize him as just the wonderful

human being he is.

Happy birthday, Desmond.

Members’ Statements

Delta Police Pipe Band

Ian Paton : I rise today to pay tribute to the Delta Police Pipe Band. This January I had the

opportunity to attend the pipe band’s 49th annual Robbie Burns dinner. It was a night

full of incredible food, music and dancing, and the whole experience made me want

to devote these two minutes to them.

The band was established in 1971 by members of the Delta police department and has

grown to include 25 pipers and 12 drummers. The band, under the direction of pipe

major Corey Tillyer and drum major Moe Coll, takes the lead position in many parades

and special events in Delta and Richmond throughout the year.

This February, the band was at B.C. Place, where they, along with 350 other pipers

and drummers, played for the opening ceremonies of the Invictus Games.

That wasn’t the first time this band has played for a stadium full of people alongside

musical royalty though. Somewhat famously now, the Delta Police Band played alongside

Sir Paul McCartney in 2012 and 2016 in B.C. Place and Rogers Arena, respectively,

for the playing of “Mull of Kintyre.”

Another memorable gig for the band was a performance in 1983 for Queen Elizabeth II

when she visited Vancouver. Three years later the band played for Prince Charles and

Princess Diana as they opened Expo 86.

The band has attended military tattoos all around the world, the most recent of which

was Belfast, Ireland, in 2023. They’ve been at tattoos in the Netherlands, Scotland

and Nova Scotia as well. This year they will be representing the community of Delta

again, as they return to the Virginia International Tattoo in April.

The members of the Delta Police Pipe Band are more than just performers; they are

a vital part of our community’s cultural fabric, bringing together people through

music and tradition. They inspire pride and unity in Delta, reminding us of our shared

history and values.

I wanted to take these few minutes to honour the Delta Police Pipe Band, who not only

has been a beacon of professionalism and good cheer for my constituents, but for the

thousands they have entertained around the world for the last 54 years.

Ramadan

Amna Shah : It’s that time of year again. About two billion Muslims across the world will soon

begin fasting during the holy month of Ramadan.

From dawn to dusk, Muslims refrain from eating or drinking, and to answer the most

common question, yes, that includes no water. We engage in regular prayer throughout

the day and give alms to the less fortunate.

To Muslims, this is not just a physical fast but also a spiritual one, involving refraining

from bad habits, negative thoughts and actions. Fasting from dawn to sunset fosters

empathy for those less fortunate and teaches the values of patience, humility and

generosity.

[10:15 a.m.]

It is a time to learn and maintain discipline, discipline of not just the mind but

also the soul. It is a time to disconnect from worldly distractions and reconnect

with what truly matters — and that is faith, family and community. The nightly prayers,

the breaking of the fast and the moments of quiet reflection bring peace to the heart,

while the spirit of giving spreads love and kindness throughout the world.

To Muslims, this month encourages a way of life that emphasizes the surrendering of

one’s heart, mind and actions to the divine will, and this is actually the core value

of Islam. Importantly, it is a reminder and a lesson that in moments of sacrifice

there is profound reward and that even in times of challenge and adversity, there

is always the opportunity for renewal, growth and grace.

To my fellow Muslims: may the sacred month bring you peace, reflection and spiritual

growth. May your fast be filled with patience and your prayers answered with mercy

and blessings.

Ramadan Mubarak.

Gladys Radek and

Tears to Hope Society

Claire Rattée : I rise today to pay tribute to an extraordinary individual and a friend, Gladys Radek,

whose unwavering dedication to justice and healing for missing and murdered Indigenous

women and girls has profoundly impacted our communities.

On February 14, the Tears to Hope Society held their annual memorial march in Terrace,

British Columbia. This event brought together over 50 participants, including families,

local leaders and supporters from various First Nations, to honour the lives of those

lost and to stand in solidarity against ongoing injustices. While I was unable to

attend due to commitments here in Victoria, my thoughts were with Gladys and all who

gathered on that significant day.

Gladys, a proud member of the Gitxsan and Wet’suwet’en Nations, has been a relentless

advocate for over two decades. The tragic disappearance of her niece Tamara Chipman

in 2005 along the Highway of Tears transformed her grief into a powerful movement

for change. She co-founded Walk for Justice, leading cross-country walks to amplify

the voices of families affected by these tragedies. Her efforts were instrumental

in the establishment of the national inquiry into missing and murdered Indigenous

women and girls.

In 2020, realizing the need for a dedicated space for reflection and healing, Gladys

envisioned and saw the creation of a memorial totem pole on Kitsumkalum territory.

This totem pole now stands as a symbol of remembrance and a gathering place for ceremonies,

including the recent memorial march.

Her leadership within the Tears to Hope Society continues to provide essential support

and advocacy for families, ensuring that the memories of loved ones are honoured and

that their stories compel action. Gladys’s resilience and compassion have inspired

many, including myself. Her commitment to justice and her role as a mentor to emerging

leaders exemplify the strength and spirit of Indigenous women.

I am profoundly grateful for her friendship and the wisdom that she imparts. As we

reflect on the significance of the February 14 memorial march, let us also recognize

the ongoing work required to address the systemic issues contributing to these tragedies.

Gladys Radek’s unwavering dedication serves as a beacon of hope and a call to action

for all of us to strive for a more just and compassionate society.

Quw’utsun Secondary School

Debra Toporowski / Qwulti’stunaat : Earlier this month I had the honour to attend the grand opening ceremony of the new

Quw’utsun School, located in the heart of Duncan. This new school replaces the Cowichan

Secondary, which was built back in the 1950s and had become too small for our community

and was also seismically unsafe.

What really makes this project special is the collaboration with the community throughout

the planning, building and opening phases, particularly with the school board and

with Cowichan Tribes. Through this collaboration, it was decided that the new secondary

school would honour the original Hul’q’umi’num name of Cowichan. The pronunciation

of Cowichan is Quw’utsun and, similar to the shift in the spelling, is a testimony

to our community’s collective journey to truth and reconciliation.

This new high school was built after receiving over $80 million in funding from the

province’s seismic mitigation program. Built with a wood-first design and an abundance

of natural light, the new school is a warm and welcoming place.

[10:20 a.m.]

The new school also features a neighbourhood learning centre that can host community

programs, including a health clinic for youth that will be operated by Island Health.

A longhouse depicted in the school is part of the S’amuna Indigenous language and

cultural centre. It includes beams, wood harvested from the MÁLEXEŁ Nation.

In the outdoor learning and gathering space…. I’m just wanting to say that my grandnephew

Dean was very excited because he attended the old Cow High in grade 10. Now he’s in

grade 11, so he’s experiencing the new school. He was very excited on opening day.

As a Cowichan Tribes member, a great-aunt, an aunt and a stepmom and also a grandmother,

I know the important role school plays in shaping children’s lives and families’ experiences

in our community.

I raise my hands in appreciation to the province for prioritizing the seismic upgrades

for our schools and to everyone in our community who has worked together to create

such a beautiful school where our children can learn, grow and thrive for generations

to come.

Black History Month

Rob Botterell : Today I would like to highlight Black History Month. Black history recognizes and

celebrates the legacies of Black people in British Columbia and across the globe.

Black History Month was first recognized in Canada in 1995. Here in B.C., however,

Black history is older than our province. Black pioneers have been shaping the culture

of B.C. since 1858, when Governor Douglas invited free Blacks from California to come

and live and thrive in B.C. This started a legacy of culture and history for Black

people here in B.C.

For example, the first Black teacher in B.C., John Craven Jones, was the only teacher

on Salt Spring Island, which is in my riding, in the year 1859, contributing to generations

of teachers who shaped the future British Columbians.

Black History Month is celebrated every February throughout Canada. It is an ongoing

celebration of culture, legacies and contributions to our beautiful province. The

B.C. Black History Awareness Society continues to celebrate and enrich our culture,

including creating and distributing resources that teach about Black history in B.C.

As Black History Month comes to an end, I want to remind everyone that the strength

of our province comes from our differences and the freedom of British Columbians to

pursue their passions. Black food, fashion, music and storytelling will continue to

evolve and contribute to the diversity of our province.

Please join me in honouring these contributions.

Effort and Process Versus Outcome

Sunita Dhir : Today I would like to share a personal story from my childhood that shaped my perspective.

My father often read verses from the Bhagavad Gita , and one that stood out to me was, “Karmaṇyevādhikāraste mā phaleṣhu kadāchana,” which translates to: “Do your duty, but do not concern yourself with

the results.”

[Sanskrit text provided by Sunita Dhir.]

At the time, I did not fully understand or agree with this idea. I often wondered

why we would do anything if we weren’t focused on the outcome. But as I grew older

and gained more life experience, I came to understand the deeper meaning behind this

wisdom. So often, we get caught up in the results. We focus on outcomes, sometimes

forgetting that the process, the effort, is just as important.

The truth is that we have the responsibility to do our duty, but we cannot control

every factor that influences the results, whether it’s past events, the efforts of

others or the circumstances around us. If we obsess over the outcome, it only leads

to anxiety when things don’t go as expected.

That’s why Lord Krishna advised his friend and disciple Arjuna to let go of the obsession

with results and instead focus entirely on doing the best job possible.

[10:25 a.m.]

In our work here, every single one of us shares the same goal: to provide the best

life possible for the people of British Columbia.

Let’s focus on our duty, our responsibility, and collaborate to make this vision a

reality. When we focus on the work, the results will follow, and they will even be

better than we anticipate.

Oral Questions

Emergency Services at Hospitals

John Rustad : Burns Lake has seen 25 percent of the time for its emergency room closed, just this

year alone. It is an hour and a half to the nearest facilities.

Will the Premier please explain why that is acceptable health care for rural B.C.?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the Leader of the Opposition for the question.

Any time an emergency room is temporarily closed, where people need to be diverted

to the closest place, it’s a very serious issue. It has a huge impact on communities.

I know that people want to have confidence in the system to know that the emergency

services are there for them when they need it.

We are experiencing a lot of strain in the health care system right now. We have a

global shortage of health care workers, and that’s why it’s incumbent on us to do

everything possible to train and recruit new doctors to our province, to hire more

nurses and more health care workers across the system so that we can deal with the

types of staff shortages that we have been seeing.

We are going to continue this work, and I’m sure I’ll have a chance to talk more about

it in a moment.

Tony Luck : Nicola Valley Hospital, in my riding…. The ER has been closed for over 26 days in

this past year.

To the Premier, when will hospital closures stop in British Columbia?

Hon. Josie Osborne : I had the opportunity to speak with the mayor of Merritt just yesterday. We have

spoken several times, as well as myself with many other mayors in rural areas where

we are experiencing these shortages.

We are going to continue this work to fast-track the credentialing of internationally

trained doctors, to build a new medical school in Surrey, to train new doctors to

work here in British Columbia, to continue the work that we have to do to bolster

and build our health care workforce so that we are not experiencing these kinds of

closures anymore.

Health authorities do everything possible that they can, working with physicians in

the region to mitigate and avoid these kinds of closures. We’re going to continue

to support health authorities in that work.

We’re going to continue to strengthen and attract and build this workforce, because

we know that, particularly in rural communities but in communities across British

Columbia, people need to have a system that is there for them when they need it, where

they need it.

Funding for South Vancouver Island

911 Emergency Dispatch Services

Rob Botterell : Over and over again, this government has shirked responsibility and left local governments

to pick up the slack.

Southern Vancouver Island municipalities are deeply concerned about paying the full

cost of 911 emergency dispatch services. On April 1, these ten municipalities will

be responsible for covering the entire estimated $5 million cost of E-Comm 911 services

in the region.

My question is to the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. While we await

the provincial review of E-Comm services, will you commit to providing $5 million

of transitional funding to cover south Island emergency dispatch services?

Hon. Garry Begg : Thank you to the member opposite for the question.

The responsibility for 911 services in British Columbia is purely the responsibility

of the local government. It’s delegated by the province through agreements like the

municipal policing agreement and the provincial policing agreement. This applies regardless

of whether a community is served by the RCMP or a local police detachment.

[10:30 a.m.]

South Island communities here on the Island were informed in December 2022 — five

years in advance of starting this on March 21, 2025 — that they would be responsible

for covering 100 percent of the costs associated with dispatching.

We provide these municipalities with multi-year transitional funding to fully cover

the police dispatch service until March 31, 2025, with the understanding that the

province and municipalities would then assume responsibility for funding at that point.

This traditional funding provided communities with over three years of additional

funding.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Rob Botterell : These ten municipalities are currently finishing their 2025 budget and are being

forced to consider raising taxes by 3 to 6 percent to cover the downloaded 911 emergency

dispatch services — a cost, I should note, that is covered by provincial and federal

funding in all other parts of the province. This is a matter of equity.

Again, to the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General: will you make it a

priority to work with these ten municipalities to develop an equitable funding formula

for south Island emergency dispatch funding?

Hon. Garry Begg : You should know the Ministry of the Solicitor General has contracted a review of

E-Comm’s financial sustainability, operational capacity and government, and we will

be making recommendations based upon that study and the future of 911 service in this

province. E-Comm and 911 services safety will not be impacted.

Additionally, it has been communicated that there must be no impact or disruption

of service. As the review is underway, communities will continue to be responsible

for paying for the E-Comm services they receive on call-taking and dispatch services.

Emergency Services at Hospitals

Donegal Wilson : The emergency room in Keremeos has been closed evenings and weekends for 1,213 days.

Why does this Premier think that this is acceptable?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

In Boundary-Similkameen or in any riding across this province, people need to know

that emergency services are there for them, that the emergency rooms are open for

people.

There is a lot of work to do to strengthen our health care system, and that is why

we have been taking action for years in building and bolstering that health care workforce

that we know is in the context of a global health care worker shortage. British Columbia

is not alone in experiencing these challenges.

In addition to the work that we are doing to train new doctors, to attract new doctors,

to hire more nurses, we’re also alleviating the strain that is felt by emergency rooms

by building up our primary care workforce as well.

There’s a lot of work to do. We’re going to continue to do it, and we’re not going

to stop.

Brennan Day : Lillooet Hospital has had its emergency department closed for 26 days.

Does this Premier think it’s reasonable for the good people of Lillooet to drive over

two hours on snow-covered highways to reach Royal Inland Hospital in Kamloops? Why

does this Premier expect people to risk their lives to access basic emergency care?

Hon. Josie Osborne : I had the opportunity to speak recently with Mayor Hopfl from Lillooet and really

appreciated her observations. I shared with her the concerns that she expressed to

me. As the former mayor of a small town, I can certainly understand and empathize

with how challenging it is, and the kind of anxiety that it creates for people, when

hospitals are closed.

I also had an excellent conversation with her about some of the work that she and

other rural mayors and leaders are doing to help us in our goal of attracting more

physicians, bringing more health care workers into small rural communities, which

are fantastic places to live.

That is why, because we know of particular shortages in these communities, we launched

the provincial rural retention incentive program to provide bonuses for people who

are living in small communities to attract more workers to come to these communities.

[10:35 a.m.]

This is just one example of the kind of work that we are doing so that we can continue

to build the workforce so that we are able to have that strong health care system,

a strong emergency department system in communities large and small across British

Columbia.

Lorne Doerkson : Cariboo Memorial Hospital has had 18 days of emergency closures over the past year.

Can the Premier explain how many hours of travel are acceptable when an emergency

room closes in rural British Columbia?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Again, I will emphasize the work that we are doing to build up the workforce and to

ensure that hospitals, like in Quesnel and Williams Lake and other areas in the member’s

riding and nearby, are not experiencing these kinds of diversions. We’re going to

continue that work.

By providing that kind of support, we know that we can build the workforce in these

hospitals, that we can work with communities, with health authorities, which do absolutely

everything possible, working with physicians and emergency room nurses, working with

local workforces nearby to ensure that as many shifts as possible are covered.

There are times when there are shortages, when somebody is ill, when they are not

able to cover a shift.

Health authorities are doing everything possible to avert those closures and then

working with B.C. emergency health services to ensure that ambulances and paramedics

are in place to help with that travel assist.

Kiel Giddens : The Mackenzie Hospital has been closed 13 times so far in 2025, and it’s only the

end of February.

A simple question, to the Premier. Does he believe that northerners deserve quality

health care?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Every single British Columbian deserves health care, the access to our universal and

public health care system here in British Columbia.

We’re going to continue to take these actions that I’m describing today to build the

workforce, to strengthen the health care system, to ensure that our public health

care system is there for British Columbians when and where they need it.

Jody Toor : Well, the 100 Mile House district had its ER closed for ten days. Royal Inland Hospital

is two hours, over a 200-kilometre drive.

Why is the Premier forcing people to drive for hours for emergency care?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Again, like provinces and other communities across Canada, we are experiencing health

care worker shortages that have caused strain on the system. Yet every single day

these doctors, these nurses, these health care workers are showing up, delivering

the best care possible for people here in British Columbia. I think they deserve our

thanks.

We are going to continue this work. We are seeing positive trends. We do know that

emergency room diversions and temporary closures have reduced by 40 percent over the

last six months compared to the six months before.

Is there more work to do? Of course there is. I’m sure we’re going to canvass this

throughout today. We are going to continue this work, and I’ll continue to talk about

all of that work that needs to be done.

Linda Hepner : Clearwater’s Dr. Helmcken Memorial Hospital is an hour and a half away from Royal

Inland Hospital. This Premier forced those needing emergency care to drive that distance

on nine separate days this year.

Why does this Premier put people’s lives at risk?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Of course nobody wants to see this happening. That’s why we need to continue these

efforts, to do these efforts collaboratively, collectively, to continue working with

health care workers, with the Doctors of B.C., with the College of Physicians and

Surgeons, with all of the organizations, with communities to do everything that we

can to build up this workforce, to attract more doctors.

This is one of my top priorities, and I know the members have read my mandate letter,

and they have seen that this is a top priority for this government.

[10:40 a.m.]

We did not get into this problem overnight, and it is going to take time to resolve.

We are going to continue to do everything we can to lift up and respect our health

care workers who are doing everything that they can under difficult circumstances.

This work is not going to stop.

Reann Gasper : Mission Hospital ER was closed on seven different occasions.

Why does the Premier think that their emergencies are not important enough to have

a local ER open?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Every single British Columbian deserves this access. We know it, and we all want to

see it. That’s why we are going to continue our work building the workforce, attracting

more doctors, training them here, expanding the number of seats in the UBC medical

school and building a new medical school in Surrey, because we know that when doctors

are trained here in British Columbia, over 90 percent of them stay here in British

Columbia.

That’s what we’re going to do to build up this workforce to ensure that we have the

doctors in place for a strong primary care system and for strong emergency rooms too.

Anna Kindy : Fort St. James had its ER shut down for six days by this Premier. The ER at UNBC

Hospital is 160 kilometres away.

Why is this Premier forcing them to take a two-hour ambulance ride to an open ER?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member opposite for the question.

Again, there is work to do and we are doing that work.

We have tripled our capacity for credentialing international doctors. We are working

with the College of Physicians and Surgeons to ensure that doctors moving to British

Columbia from other provinces in Canada can get their temporary licensure immediately

and that doctors who want to move here to British Columbia from comparable jurisdictions

like the U.S. or the U.K. receive those provisional licences within six weeks.

When somebody comes to British Columbia to practise medicine, we want them to be on

the front lines. That’s why we are doing this work. We are going to continue to do

this work so that we can build a strong health care system and make sure that these

emergency room diversions are lessening. We’ve got more work to do. We are going to

continue doing it.

Scott McInnis : The Slocan Community Health Centre ER is over two hours from Queen Victoria Hospital

and four hours from Kelowna General. Its ER was closed for five days.

Why does this Premier expect people to drive through dangerous mountain passes to

get emergency care?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question — again, another example of small communities

needing to know that those emergency rooms are there for people when they need them.

There are so many people who are working so hard to do everything they can to avert

these kinds of closures. When they need to happen, because of staffing shortages,

because of illnesses, because of the need to continue to build this workforce…. We

are going to continue to do this work.

I understand, as a member of a small community myself. I live in Tofino. We are so

fortunate to have a hospital there, and I can imagine what it would feel like for

my community members to know that they cannot go to the emergency room in Tofino,

that they would have to drive all the way to Port Alberni.

I understand how challenging and difficult this is for people, and that’s why I am

so personally committed to ensuring that this work is done and that we can make progress,

as we already are.

Tara Armstrong : Arrow Lakes Hospital ER was closed for five days.

Why did this Premier force those in Arrow Lakes to drive for hours to get emergency

care on five different occasions?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Again, it’s hard for anybody in any community to know that their emergency room is

not available to them. They want to know that that care is there when they need it,

when it’s most urgent in their situation. That’s why we’re going to continue the work

that I’ve been speaking about this morning.

[10:45 a.m.]

We’re not going to stop this work, but we’re also going to continue to do other things

to build out the health care system in ways where people do not have to rely on emergency

rooms as much. That includes things like connecting more people to family doctors

— where, again, we are seeing successes, with almost 700 people a day now being attached

to a primary care physician — to remove or lessen the likelihood of needing to go

for non-urgent, non-emergency care to the emergency room.

We’re going to continue this work to build out the number of doctors, nurses and health

care workers across the entire system and to build that strong public health care

system that British Columbians deserve.

Jordan Kealy : Last year in the Peace region, all four ER rooms closed on the same day, forcing

people to have to drive up to ten hours to seek critical care.

To the Premier, when, and I’d like to hear a date, is he going to address the closures

of these critical services that are happening over and over in rural B.C.?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

We are seeing progress. We do know that the number of emergency room closures has

come down 40 percent over the last six months. That’s a product of the work that so

many people are doing to minimize the likelihood of this having to happen. Again,

health authorities, physicians, nurses — nobody wants this to happen.

That’s why everybody is taking every step possible to avert these kinds of closures.

But it is going to take all of us, with the actions that we have outlined and that

I have been canvassing today, by the investments that we’re making in new hospitals

in rural British Columbia as well, so that people have that top-notch care that they

deserve here in British Columbia.

Claire Rattée : For 800 hours, Kitimat’s ER was closed last year, and that was just between January

and September.

Why does this Premier think it’s okay to force my constituents to drive hours on snow-covered

highways to access an ER?

Hon. Josie Osborne : I was really privileged to be able to visit the member’s riding back in January and

participate in the opening of the new Ksyen Regional Hospital in Terrace.

This is an absolutely phenomenal facility that is providing care to people in the

region, including people in Kitimat when the emergency room in Kitimat has not been

able to be staffed and when diversions have taken place and people have had to come

up to Terrace. I know how hard that is on people. I can well imagine it because of

where I live too.

That’s why we’re going to continue to do this work. We’re going to continue to do

things like building the hospital that we’ve done in Terrace and undertaking all of

the work to hire new workers in hospitals.

We are making progress. We are going to continue this work because, as we can see,

canvassing all of these questions today, it is extremely challenging for people no

matter the size of the community they live in. That’s why we’re going to continue

this work.

Larry Neufeld : B.C.’s north needs proper ER access. Masset on Haida Gwaii deserves proper ER access.

Chetwynd, Tumbler Ridge and Dawson Creek deserve proper ER access.

Why did this Premier close their ER doors?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Yes, in Masset or in Fort St. James or in Terrace or in Fort St. John, no matter where

you live in British Columbia, you need access to care when and where you need it.

That’s why we’re going to continue this work. We’re going to continue investing in

rural communities, building new hospitals, building new clinics with health authorities

and continuing that work to train and hire more doctors, more nurses, more health

care workers.

We are making progress. There’s an incredible amount of work to do. I know that everybody

in this House recognizes that, and I am sure that every single person is dedicated

to continuing to support their communities and their health authorities and that we

can do this work together.

[10:50 a.m.]

Ian Paton : Delta residents had their ER closed for two days last weekend, and possibly this

weekend as well. They are being asked to go to Surrey, where wait times are as high

as 18 hours.

Are Delta residents supposed to accept that ER closures are the new normal?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Again, these are very, very challenging situations for people. When the emergency

room closed in Delta last week, it was really hard for people to take. I spoke to

the mayor myself as well, and we had a good conversation about some of the challenges

that are being experienced. He certainly reflected the concerns that he is hearing

from his constituents.

That’s why we need to continue the work that we’re doing. We are not going to stop.

We know that we need to attract, hire and retain more emergency room physicians and

more family doctors to alleviate the pressure; to continue to expand the UPCC network,

the urgent and primary care network across British Columbia, to alleviate that strain

on emergency rooms. We’re going to continue that work.

Amelia Boultbee : The South Okanagan General Hospital emergency room saw 40 days of closures this year.

To the Premier, how many ER closures are enough before this government takes action?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Again, no matter where you live in British Columbia, knowing that the emergency room

is there for you when you need it is of utmost importance. It’s very difficult, even

when you don’t anticipate having an emergency, to know that something you’ve depended

on for years and years and years is being challenged.

These are strains that are being felt across the health care system nationally and

even further. That’s why we have to continue the work we’ve been doing. That’s why

it’s promising that we’re seeing initial results, but we’re not going to let up. We’ve

got to continue this work so that we can ensure that everyone living in British Columbia,

no matter whether a small community or a large community, has access to the health

care that they need when they need it.

Pete Davis : Elkford‘s ER department in my riding has been closed for over two years. Two years.

Why did the Premier do nothing to prevent Elkford’s ER from closing?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Again, if you live in Elkford or Sparwood or Fernie or anywhere out in the southeast

Kootenays, you need to know that the emergency room is there for you and that our

health care system is here for you.

Health care workers are doing phenomenal work under very challenging conditions right

now, and I think it’s important that we remember that this is difficult on them as

well. That’s why we have to continue this work of attracting more doctors, of building

out nursing shortages, of ensuring that we have all the health care workers across

the entire system that we need. That’s why, for small communities like this, the provincial

rural retention incentive has helped to bring new people into communities.

We’re going to continue these programs, and we’re going to continue this work, because

we know it’s what has to be done.

Rosalyn Bird : The hospital in Creston Valley has also closed and is vital for the community.

Again, why does the Premier continue to close ER services for those in crisis?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

Again, any person living in a community where an emergency room that has been open

and is now closed temporarily or for longer in some cases…. It’s an extremely stressful

situation and creates a lot of anxiety. I recognize that. We all recognize that. That’s

why this work has to continue.

Also, that’s why in a situation like this, when this happens, it’s so important to

work closely with the B.C. emergency health services, of course, in ensuring that

paramedics and ambulances know when a diversion is there because we want to ensure

that people get to care as quickly as possible when they need it.

It’s also why we’re continuing to build out our primary care system, ensuring that

people have access to other treatment…

Interjection.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Josie Osborne : …to reduce the likelihood of needing to go to an emergency room for non-emergency

care in the first place. We’re going to continue this work.

[10:55 a.m.]

Access to Health Care Services

and Safety of Hospital Workers

Trevor Halford : I would say the last 30 minutes have been a pretty damning indication on the state

of our health care here in British Columbia. Every part of this province has been

represented today speaking about the state of our health care.

Can you imagine having your child, your ailing child, in the back of your car and

having to drive ten hours to access an emergency room department? That is the state….

Can you imagine going to Surrey Memorial Hospital and waiting 18 hours to access an

emergency room department?

When people in this province seek health care, seek an emergency room, they should

expect that they’re able to get that access when they need it and where they need

it. That is not happening today.

Furthermore, when our health care workers go into….

Interjections.

Trevor Halford : I’m sorry if this is inconvenient for the members of government, but what’s more

inconvenient is when you’re trying to access an emergency room, and it’s closed. That’s

inconvenient.

The Speaker : Question, Member.

Trevor Halford : My question is this. Yesterday I highlighted the fact that we had a horrific incident

in South Surrey. That person was then taken to Peace Arch Hospital. From what we know

now, that person actually tried and attempted to take the firearm of an officer in

that hospital. That person was restrained by the physician. Restrained by the physician.

So not only….

The Speaker : Question. Question, Member.

Interjection.

Trevor Halford : I’m sorry if this is inconvenient. What was inconvenient was for a physician…

The Speaker : Member.

Trevor Halford : …who had to intervene to protect his staff and protect a front-line worker.

My question is to the Premier. When will he wake up and when will he actually stand

up for British Columbians so that when they need health care, they can get it; and

for the workers, the front-line workers that are in our hospitals, when is he going

to stand up and make sure they’re protected as well?

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members. Members, show some discipline, please.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member. Member for Abbotsford South.

Member, come to order.

Minister.

Hon. Josie Osborne : I will stand up for health care workers each and every day.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members. Members.

Member, Question period is almost concluded. If you are done….

Interjections.

[The Speaker rose.]

The Speaker : Member, for god’s sake, be quiet.

Please conclude.

[The Speaker resumed their seat.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : I’ll stand up for health care workers each and every day, as will every member of

this government.

We have canvassed many different communities across B.C. in today’s question period.

I didn’t hear any ideas from the opposition, but one idea I have heard is bringing

in a U.S.-style, two-tier health care system that would poach doctors and nurses from

our system and make it worse.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

The Speaker : Hon. Members, I have the honour to table the Auditor General report Child Care Licensing Capacity , February 2025.

[11:00 a.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I seek leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

The Speaker : Please proceed.

Introductions by Members

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I wanted to wish my mother a happy birthday. Unfortunately, my mother had a serious

heart attack on Monday, and she is in the hospital on her birthday, nothing that any

of us would wish to be doing on our birthday.

I did want to take this moment to really thank the ER in Nanaimo Regional General

Hospital, who have been outstanding in their care for my mom. I wanted to thank the

nurses, particularly, and the internist Dr. Mousa and recognize that every day, extraordinary

people stand up to take care of our family.

Orders of the Day

Hon. Mike Farnworth : In this House, I call second reading, Bill 4, Business Practices and Consumer Protection

Act.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 4 — Business Practices and

Consumer Protection

Amendment Act, 2025

Deputy Speaker : We will call this House back to order, and we will recognize our Attorney General

to open debate on Bill 4, Business Practices and Consumer Protection Amendment Act,

Hon. Niki Sharma : I move that the bill now be read a second time.

Bill 4 proposes to amend the Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act to modernize

the consumer contract provisions to protect consumers in an increasingly complex marketplace.

Increasingly, because of the complexities of contracts and the speed at which they

are reached online, people are vulnerable to practices that result in increased costs

and hidden unfair contract obligations, whether it’s drip pricing, where providers

keep adding extra fees and those provisions are built into the contract; or trap by

design, where contracts are set up to lock people into terms while letting the provider

increase costs over time of their service.

Many people in B.C. and across the world are frustrated by automatic renewals, when

they don’t want them, that keep adding to monthly costs for families; and fitness

contracts that won’t let you cancel the monthly payments even when you move far away

from that fitness facility; and subscription services that can be very difficult to

cancel and make it frustrating for consumers.

We’re also stepping up to prevent unscrupulous salespeople from showing up at the

doors of seniors and selling them highly overpriced items, sometimes not even delivering

the services paid for.

All of these things are unfair, cause frustration to consumers and add to costs for

people that already are under tight budgets. This bill proposes to take action to

change that. If these amendments are passed, we will ensure a fairer, more transparent

and accountable marketplace for all British Columbians.

The B.C. consumer protection laws were last updated in 2004, and the marketplace has

evolved significantly since then. British Columbians have been hit by hidden fees

and unclear contracts.

[11:05 a.m.]

They have faced unfair contract terms and predatory sales practices, and I’m confident

that these amendments will better protect people.

I think it’s important to illustrate some of the specific examples that come up in

people’s everyday life that this bill will help protect. Businesses will be required

to provide clear contract terms up front, including renewal, cancellation and refund

policies, so before you sign onto a contract, you can fully understand the key terms

of what you’re signing before you enter into that agreement.

People buying new cell phones and entering into those agreements will be given more

transparent information up front prior to entering into the contract. Whether it’s

a streaming service, a paid app or any other form of subscription, if it’s passed,

you will have more control over the renewal and cancellation of the contract.

We’re improving remedies for consumers around refunds, returns and cancellations,

particularly for online orders. We’ve heard many frustrations from online orders where

somebody buys something online, like clothing or other items, and there’s very obscure

refund policies or obstructive refund policies or ways that prevent the consumer from

getting their money back when they no longer want the item.

We’re changing that. We are requiring there to be clear instructions on how to obtain

a refund, and it will be clear that in some cases, people don’t have to return that

item to be eligible for a refund.

Through contracts, businesses can no longer prevent consumers from leaving reviews.

It’s sometimes shocking to think about the things that are hidden inside these contracts

that people sign mostly online in today’s marketplace. They don’t know what they’re

being bound to. One of them is contract provisions that say: “You’re not allowed to

leave a review of my business online.”

You can imagine, the way most people consume and understand where they should consume,

reviews play a really big role in that. I think everybody has an example of, right

before they’re about to purchase something, going online and checking reviews to see

what the product has done over time and whether or not it will be useful to them or

it’s something where they put their money, especially under tight budgets.

Obviously, I think those kinds of contracts need to be prevented. Consumers need information

and sometimes the best way of getting that information is from other consumers that

have purchased that product. This is a very clear way to step in to prevent that type

of behaviour so we can increase the information out there.

Another thing that we will prevent through changes in the bill, if it’s passed, are

joining provisions that say a consumer is not entitled to join a class action lawsuit

related to the product. I think this is an example of an access-to-justice issue that

sometimes can be written into contracts. In a free and open marketplace where consumers

are making decisions on where to spend their money, it’s important they also have

the opportunity to have the remedies that are available to them under law should something

go wrong.

There are questions about the legality of provisions like this, but what is clear

is that consumer protection laws need to be strengthened to make sure that when products

are for sale, all people know that these types of provisions are not allowed here

in B.C.

There also are provisions sometimes hidden in contracts that talk about requiring

very costly private arbitration when there is a dispute. Now, binding consumers to

these types of dispute resolution processes can be very expensive but also really

prohibitive to the person from seeking some kind of dispute when they’ve been wronged

or they feel like they’ve been wronged. We are changing that, and I’ll go into a little

more detail in a second.

Another thing we’re stepping up to make sure, that’s a real-life example of how consumers

need better protection, is door-to-door sales of high-cost household products. It’s

been widely reported by many good journalists out there that have found that there

is a tactic that’s showing up on doors across the country, and potentially North America,

where very highly persuasive salespeople will purposefully target vulnerable buyers,

whether it’s seniors homes or places where they’re maybe more vulnerable to their

tactics.

[11:10 a.m.]

They show up at the door, and they use these highly persuasive sale tactics to force

sales on individuals for particularly high-priced items. We’ve listed them in the

bill, the ones that we’ve been monitoring, to make sure that we can up the protections.

This is an extremely stressful practice, and I want to stress for those people listening

that may be wanting to understand about these protections: a lot of times we find,

when these kinds of really abhorrent behaviours occur at the door, that people feel

ashamed. They feel as if they don’t want to tell people the story of being duped and

paying these really crazy amounts for household items that they didn’t need or didn’t

want.

These tactics are designed to take advantage of people’s vulnerability, and I want

to say not to be ashamed. We’re stepping up for better protections, through this bill,

to prevent that from happening, but if it has happened to you, we need to know about

it. We need to know what we have, how we have to design our systems and our protections

here in B.C. to step up when that is happening.

We’re doing that with this bill. In particular, we’ve listed in the bill those high-cost

items that we are tracking and monitoring, that are showing up in these types of really

vulnerable interactions that can result in real hardship for people.

We’re preventing that with some very clear restrictions and guidance that will be

set to disrupt those highly persuasive tactics for vulnerable people. The contracts

for these items can’t be completed at the doorstep at that time, so it interrupts

these kinds of interactions that are causing people quite a bit of harm. These changes

reflect the evolving marketplace and keep B.C. in line with leading consumer protection

laws across Canada.

Another key change that I want to highlight in second reading here is on dispute resolution.

A lot of our work, and certainly since I’ve been in my role as Attorney General, is

about improving access to justice in as many ways as we can. We want to make sure

that people can have access to some kind of remedy when they need to access our justice

system.

A real important tool for that, and an addition that we’re quite proud of building

upon, is the Civil Resolution Tribunal, which is a low-barrier, low-access legal process

that allows people to bring their claims forward — in this case, claims for under

$5,000, which would fit a large category of the items and issues that we would be

talking about in consumer transactions.

To do that allows people to get a remedy faster, cheaper and more in their control,

and it will profoundly open up the access-to-justice abilities under this consumer

protection act.

I really think this is a very strong intervention in this bill. Those who don’t comply

will face monetary penalties of up to $50,000 for businesses and $5,000 for a person.

Those types of provisions that allow for a penalty act in our legal system not only

as a remedy for people that are harmed but also as a deterrent. People know that if

they are breaching, or not designing their contracts to comply with, the rules set

out under consumer protection, there will be consequences.

I think at the heart of this is our continued action to step up to protect people

and help to reduce costs that they may be facing in their daily lives. In a lot of

ways, the most important way we show up in society is through where and how we spend

our money, especially under tight budgets.

When there are no strong provisions to protect consumers related to these very complicated

contracts they encounter — related to blocking, setting up systems to block people

from being able to cancel subscriptions, being able to not be bound by automatic renewal,

not being able to exit a fitness contract, even though they’ve moved away — these

are not only frustrating to people but also add to people’s daily burden. It’s not

right.

[11:15 a.m.]

This bill will send a clear message to all operators in B.C. that there are rules

with respect to what information is needed before somebody enters a contract, that

you can’t keep on increasing costs without proper notification and decision-making

of the person and the consumer, and you can’t bind people to things that are unfair

and unwarranted. We’re going to continue to step up these protections.

I’ll just end by saying that I’m really grateful that the Premier has asked me to

take on consumer protection in B.C., how it shows up in our province and what we could

be doing to protect consumers in this province.

I’m glad that we’re updating this law that hasn’t been updated since 2004, but I see

a lot of work ahead of us to keep up with a changing marketplace that sometimes makes

people feel disempowered and disengaged from the control they have over their money

and how and when they spend it. That needs to change.

I’m really proud that this is the first step our government is taking in this mandate

on that, and there will be many more.

Deputy Speaker : Thank you, Attorney General, for opening up debate this morning on Bill 4.

Steve Kooner : I rise today in the House to address Bill 4, the Business Practices and Consumer

Protection Amendment Act, 2025.

I begin by saying that our caucus respects and supports the principle of protecting

consumers. We recognize that individuals deserve fair treatment when they buy goods

and services. However, we cannot support the heavy burden this bill will place on

businesses in this province. These amendments carry so much uncertainty that they

threaten the survival of many local enterprises, and we find ourselves unable to overlook

this potential harm.

Our province has been through a difficult economic period. A lot of small businesses

are struggling right now. This isn’t an isolated slump that we’re dealing with. Recent

years have been hard on businesses here in British Columbia. Small businesses in B.C.

are struggling with increasing costs for materials and shipping, along with labour

shortages and reduced consumer spending. NDP big government, bureaucracy, taxes and

red tape are strangling innovation and enterprise in our province.

In many communities, family-run stores and locally owned service providers are only

just beginning to regain their footing after years of financial strain. Many entrepreneurs

are considering leaving the province, yet at the very moment these businesses need

policies that will foster growth and stability, they are facing this piece of NDP

legislation that only adds even more confusion and expense to daily operations. I

want to emphasize that this bill in question restricts mandatory arbitration clauses,

as we just heard, and massively expands cancellation rights for consumers.

In principle, consumer rights are vital. All British Columbians are consumers, so

there need to be some protections for consumers. We agree with the idea that consumers

should not be trapped into fraudulent and misleading deals. Still, it is essential

to remember that business owners have rights as well. They supply the jobs that families

rely on, and they form the backbone of our local economies.

This socialist NDP bill seeks to erode contract law in B.C. by weakening enforcement

mechanisms. Contract law is the central foundation of Western economic freedom and

capitalism. When the law creates an environment of extreme uncertainty for those already

under economic stress, our small businesses risk being pushed out of the market altogether.

Let us consider the elimination of the arbitration clause first. Arbitration can be

a practical and efficient method of dispute resolution. It often saves time and money

and can be less formal than going through a court proceeding.

[11:20 a.m.]

I understand that government wants to give consumers more options, but the bill goes

too far by removing the possibility of mandatory arbitration entirely. In effect,

it raises the likelihood of prolonged legal battles in courts or before tribunals.

Many small businesses cannot afford to hire lawyers for such lengthy disputes.

As I mentioned earlier, a lot of businesses are struggling. A lot of small businesses

are struggling. They do not have legal departments. They do not have the budgets for

legal expenses at the current time. Many small businesses cannot afford to hire lawyers

for lengthy disputes. Their resources are already stretched thin from facing rising

taxes, unpredictable shipping fees and high real estate costs.

Local businesses have been struggling to get by after years of global and national

uncertainty. Pushing our businesses and entrepreneurs into an expensive court process

whenever a dispute arises is neither fair nor practical.

I also worry about the broad cancellation provisions in this bill. Consumer protection

demands fair rules that allow for refunds if the purchase was made under trickery

or forceful sales tactics. But the text of this bill goes beyond that. It permits

cancellation under such flexible conditions that it risks destabilizing entire sectors

of B.C.’s economy.

Legitimate businesses might invest significant time, money and labour into fulfilling

orders only to see them cancelled at the slightest technical shortcoming in documentation.

A minor oversight in contract language could become the excuse for a complete contract

cancellation, even if the consumer willingly entered the deal with clear information,

even if the consumer had some time to review that contract, even if that consumer

had a few days to review that contract.

This is not a receipt for a stable marketplace. It is a set of rules that can be abused

and punishes businesses that operate in good faith. The strain on small businesses

becomes particularly concerning when we add the complexity of these compliance obligations

in this piece of legislation.

This NDP bill contains various clauses about how companies must disclose terms, maintain

records and supply customers with certain notices and statements. While there exists

positive intent behind these disclosures, small businesses and many larger companies

do not have the in-house legal departments, as I mentioned earlier, to ensure they

meet every new requirement. Many do not have the budgets to hire external lawyers

or consultants to decode hundreds of pages of detailed legislation or formulate a

complex factual matrix.

The last few years have already battered our businesses with higher rent, costly shipping

delays, supply-chain uncertainty and unstable consumer spending. Burdening these businesses

with more complicated paperwork at this time is unfair and shortsighted.

This is NDP’s first-order thinking at its finest. If government truly cares about

the welfare of small businesses, it must ensure that this legislation does not become

the final straw that drives businesses out of this province or leads to a situation

where businesses close their doors for good.

[11:25 a.m.]

I also take note that Bill 4 lacks a built-in review mechanism. Legislation of this

significance should include a system of periodic assessment to check its real-world

impact. Many new laws can have unintended effects, especially when they touch upon

such wide-ranging areas in contract law and consumer relations.

A review mechanism is desperately needed to identify any sections that are causing

disproportionate harm to small businesses or allowing unscrupulous individuals to

take advantage of businesses that are simply doing their best to meet new obligations.

Without a review process, we are stuck with sweeping amendments that could harm an

entire generation of B.C. entrepreneurs. Adjustments might come too late or never

at all. Meanwhile, cherished family-run shops might vanish, and with them go crucial

networks of local jobs and community connections.

The broader economic climate in British Columbia should not be overlooked, as I mentioned

earlier. Businesses in this province have endured many waves of financial shocks for

which there are some dire consequences.

The business community has really, really struggled under the present NDP government.

Some of the things that the business community has had to deal with are a record year

of high inflation caused by ballooning spending, also a job-killing carbon tax, followed

by excessive red tape, regulations that slow development and increase compliance costs,

and expensive labour policies, coupled with the government’s interventionary real

estate disruptions.

If the government has its way in this bill as it is currently, it will be the final

nail in the coffin for many businesses. This bill could lead to eroding sacred elements

of contract law in British Columbia.

Large corporations might survive these challenges. They have the capital to pivot

or the legal teams to navigate new regulations. However, small enterprises lack such

resources. When a well-intentioned but overly broad consumer protection law hits them

in the already fragile economy, the effect can be devastating.

As it stands, the bill creates so much uncertainty that small businesses may decide

it is no longer worth the risk to remain in operation in British Columbia. This is

an intolerable outcome.

There is also a real possibility that larger corporate entities can absorb the rising

compliance costs, while smaller competitors are forced to scale back or close down

for good. This loss of competition hurts not only local workers but local consumers,

too, the very people this shortsighted law is trying to protect.

People will see fewer independent shops in their neighbourhoods. They will be forced

to buy necessities from only a few major chains. This is contrary to the goal of consumer

protection. Without local options, there is less choice for consumers, less local

flavour and less of the personal service many people value from their neighbourhood

outlets.

[11:30 a.m.]

We are calling on the government to reconsider Bill 4 in the way that it acknowledges

the real pressures and damages that businesses have seen in the last eight years inflicted

in a once thriving British Columbia economy. The changes that are proposed might benefit

some consumers for a moment, but in the long run, communities will suffer, and local

businesses will face further obstacles to compete. The correct approach is one that

ensures consumers do not get taken advantage of, while also giving honest businesses

the assurance that they will not be swept away by legal uncertainty.

It is not about ignoring misconduct by some suppliers. It is about passing a bill

that thoughtfully accommodates the economic reality on the ground. Many operators

are already struggling with everything from supply shortages to rising wage demands.

This Legislature should help ease the burden whenever possible, not increase it.

Some may argue that small businesses can adapt by adjusting their contracts or raising

their prices to offset the new risks and compliance costs. But this is not an acceptable

path forward. Higher prices mean consumers may pay more in the end. More complicated

contracts can confuse consumers and customers and might still fail to satisfy every

detail in these amendments. The net result is a marketplace fraught with tension between

buyer and seller. Instead of cooperation, we have mistrust as businesses worry about

liability exposure and consumers wonder if contracts they sign are stable. That’s

not healthy for our economy.

As diverse and vibrant as British Columbia is, we must not lose sight of how legislation

like this affects the day-to-day life of our towns and cities. When corner stores

disappear or local service providers shut down, the community loses more than just

places to shop. We lose gathering spots, meeting places, sponsors for youth sports

and events and the personal relationships that often grow between small business owners

and their customers.

As legislators, we are responsible for the well-being of all stakeholders. That includes

both consumers and businesses. The bill in its current form leans too far in one direction.

We need a system that fosters trust, not one that creates fear and uncertainty on

the business side of each transaction.

I ask this chamber to truly reflect on the wide-ranging impact that Bill 4 will have.

It’s not about whether we believe consumers should be protected. We do. We do believe

consumers need to be protected. It’s about whether this bill accomplishes the goal

without unintentionally driving countless small and medium-sized enterprises to the

brink. We must look for a balance. We must protect everyday people from abusive contracts,

but we must also spare local businesses from an avalanche of litigation and cancellation

disputes that leave them scrambling to react.

If we pass the bill in its current state, we will do more harm than good. Let us think

carefully about how to amend or refine this legislation so we safeguard not just the

interests of consumers but the very foundation of local commerce and capitalism in

British Columbia.

[11:35 a.m.]

For these reasons, we cannot support Bill 4 in its present form. We on this side of

the House call on the government to revise these amendments. We call for a measured

approach that strengthens consumer rights without undermining the good-faith operators

who are essential to British Columbia’s economy.

We are willing to work collaboratively on a bill that truly respects both sides of

the equation. Right now we must stand up for the small businesses that are the lifeblood

of British Columbia. That means rejecting the NDP’s Bill 4 in its current form so

that we do not impose crippling uncertainty at a time when we should be doing all

we can to keep our province stable, prosperous and fair for everyone.

Deputy Speaker : The Chair will recognize the Minister of Finance.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Thank you very much, Chair. It’s the first time I’ve seen you in this seat as a Speaker,

and I just want to congratulate you. It’s a pleasure to see you there, Chair.

Where to begin on Bill 4? For those who didn’t have the opportunity to hear the member

opposite share their views on Bill 4, let me share them with you, as I understood

them to be. He argues that this bill could collapse B.C.’s economy, that it could

in fact impact “the very foundation of capitalism in British Columbia,” to quote.

I’m shocked by these comments. We are talking about a bill that is targeted at unscrupulous

behaviour. Does the member opposite really believe that that represents our business

community? I was in that business community for 20 years, and I’m offended. I am offended

by that characterization of our business community, which is full of honourable business

people who believe in taking care of their consumers and who treat them properly.

That’s who makes up our business community. I’m shocked — the very foundation of capitalism

in British Columbia.

Bill 4 is an important bill that protects consumers’ rights. We know that the vast

majority of business people in British Columbia are fair actors who engage in practices

that are about providing much-needed services and goods for a consumer who wants those

services and goods and will pay for them because they’re of value to them. That is

the concept of a contract. It is a win-win, not what the member opposite has suggested

— that our economy is based on exploitation of seniors and that we are in favour of

allowing unscrupulous business practices.

This is an important bill, and I don’t want to lose track of that. Let’s think about

what this bill in fact does. It’s an amendment to British Columbia’s Business Practices

and Consumer Protection Act. It’s about enhancing consumer rights and protections

in this province, very much what the vast majority of business people do every day.

But there are bad actors. That’s why there are necessary changes that reflect a broader

effort to create a more transparent, fair and accountable marketplace for consumers,

especially in the wake of increasing online transactions.

The last time this House made amendments to this act was 2004. At that time, in 2004,

only about 10 percent of Canadians were shopping online. By the end of 2025, that

number was 78 percent. The times have changed, and this House needs to change as well.

This bill is about ensuring that we’re stepping into the modern era. British Columbians

need to be protected while they shop online and when they shop in person.

This is an important bill. Our Attorney General cares deeply about working in conjunction

with the business community in ensuring that fairness is present.

[11:40 a.m.]

Consultation, of course, occurred on this bill. In fact, we received submissions from

many important organizations. I’ll mention a few: the Automotive Retailers Association,

the B.C. Public Interest Advocacy Centre, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business,

the Consumers Council of Canada, the Council of Senior Citizens Organizations, the

Direct Selling Association, the Public Guardian and Trustee, the Public Interest Advocacy

Centre of Canada and the Retail Council of Canada — people who represent both consumers

and businesses to ensure that we are striking the right balance to protect consumers

in these marketplaces.

Imagine being caught in a situation where you unknowingly sign up for an online subscription

that automatically renews year after year, or where you’re faced with a product return

policy that is needlessly complicated and nearly impossible to navigate.

I’ll share with you a personal story. I used to have a membership at a gym — shocking

many, perhaps, but I went with some regularity. It was a great gym. I loved it, up

until the point where I needed to cancel the contract.

I moved from not very far, but there was a bridge in between. I moved from the Kitsilano

area over to Yaletown. The place that I moved into had a fabulous gym that came with

my rental agreement. I didn’t need my gym membership anymore.

I could have lived with it had I been required to let it run out its entire year.

That seems reasonable. I was hoping that because I moved, I could cancel it. They

said no. It was too close of a move, and I could still come. So I thought: “Okay,

I’ll let it run out after the year. That’s the way it is.” However, the detail was

that I had to attend in person, there was only one day of the week that I could attend,

and it had to be between one and two o’clock.

Now, I don’t need to tell you, hon. Chair, that our lifestyle doesn’t accommodate

being at a particular place Wednesday between one and two o’clock. I couldn’t cancel

my membership. I couldn’t get there.

That is not a fair business practice. That’s not someone that I want to protect. I

love small businesses. I support them. I have been a small business person. I can

tell you I would never have behaved in that way. Most small businesses don’t behave

in that way. It was an unreasonable practice, and this bill will get rid of that.

I’m not alone in this. Many people have experienced frustration when dealing with

unfair contracts or unclear terms, whether online or in person. These everyday struggles

highlight the pressing need for change. The proposed amendments to British Columbia’s

Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act aim to address exactly these issues

by ensuring that consumers are better informed, protected and empowered.

These changes come at a crucial time, when more and more people are making purchases

online and facing businesses that sometimes take advantage of unclear terms. The new

legislation will help ensure that consumers no longer have to worry about being blindsided

by unfair practices, giving us all the tools to make smarter and safer decisions when

we spend our money.

It also includes improved transparency. Consumers will now receive essential contract

terms up front, ensuring that they are better informed before committing to any purchases

or services. This includes clearer details on renewals, cancellation, returns and

refund policies, which will apply particularly to online purchases, making the process

more transparent.

Businesses will be required to notify about automatic subscription renewals well in

advance, preventing unwanted charges and providing consumers with better control over

their subscriptions. We are getting rid of trap-by-design.

For example, imagine that you’re a busy mom in my community and you sign up for a

subscription online, perhaps for a meal service. You wanted to try it, it wasn’t your

cup of tea, you didn’t get a chance to cancel it right away, and it keeps coming for

an entire year. Under the new rules, the company must notify that person a month before

the renewal date, allowing that person’s attention to be drawn that they need to take

that action in order to go ahead with the cancellation, thus avoiding those unnecessary

charges.

[11:45 a.m.]

Businesses will be restricted from making significant changes to contracts without

first obtaining the consumer’s explicit consent. I don’t know about you, but that’s

shocking to me. Is that something we need? Could it be that you make changes in a

contract without consumers’ consent already?

The answer is yes. There are situations within contracts where it says: “We can change

the price or the terms of the contract without your consent.” That is not a fair business

practice. When a contract changes, it should be through agreement of both parties,

and this bill will address that challenge.

Contracts will no longer be able to include terms that prevent consumers from participating

in class action lawsuits. Understand that: there are contracts that tell consumers

that you cannot have the right to participate in a class action lawsuit. This important

protection will not lead to the downfall of our economy. To have taken it away from

people was not just, and we need to get rid of such terms. That will happen in Bill

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Also, it will get rid of the ability to limit reviews about a business. That’s important.

In the online world, it has become very important that you can leave a review, for

two reasons. Many of us rely on those reviews. We want to know if people are having

a positive experience. We want to know if the item that we’re buying is in fact similar

to the way it has been described, or is it smoke and mirrors? Being able to look at

reviews and help make an informed decision is something that many of us have become

reliant on.

Also, we know having these reviews can lead to change. I’ll remind people of that

wonderful, hilarious song about United breaking the guitar. If you haven’t seen it,

you must look it up. It was a story about a gentleman on a plane who looked outside

and saw his beloved guitar being tossed around, dropped on the ground. Sure enough,

when he went to pick it up, it was smashed. He wrote a song about it, which went viral

and led to changes in United’s policies.

Because online reviews are powerful, it’s important that we keep them. Restricting

people’s right to online reviews is not correct, and this bill will correct it.

It also addresses the question of forcing consumers into private arbitration for disputes,

which often disadvantages the consumer. Now, I heard the member opposite say: “Well,

this is terrible, because small businesses don’t have access to lawyers, and this

is going to be terribly expensive for them.”

Well, I can tell you, first of all small businesses that I know won’t be doing these

unfair practices. The vast majority of small businesses don’t. This is about the rare

actor who’s unscrupulous, and if you are unscrupulous, perhaps you’re going to need

a lawyer.

The real issue here is that it’s the consumer who through these agreements is compelled

go to arbitration, which is an expensive endeavour for the consumer, thus limiting

their ability to stand up for their own rights. That’s what we are fighting against.

Imagine John, a senior in Trail, who purchases a high-end electronic device from an

online retailer. Now, John is an elderly gentleman, and John is lonely. When someone

comes to his door to sell him something, it’s a chance to talk, it’s a chance to connect.

And John does that. But we know that there are unscrupulous practices that happen

in these situations. Seniors are being taken advantage of and buying things they can’t

afford, because they feel pressured and because they’re kind. They’re trying to be

kind. Well, this also addresses that.

Consumers will have clearer processes for cancelling contracts under specified conditions,

ensuring that they’re not trapped in unwanted agreements. This makes it easier for

consumers to make decisions based on their current needs, not being pressured and

without the risk of difficult or confusing cancellation policies.

In addition, this gives consumers additional access to the Civil Resolution Tribunal,

the CRT. Consumers will have a more accessible and streamlined process for resolving

disputes through the CRT. This offers a faster, more affordable and consumer-friendly

option for resolving issues without having to go through lengthy, expensive court

processes.

[11:50 a.m.]

The best way to ensure that British Columbians are protected online is by informing

them of their rights as residents of our province. That’s why this new legislation

includes increased consumer awareness initiatives, ensuring that consumers are better

educated on their rights and what to look out for when entering into contracts.

It also improves enforcement measures to help tackle predatory business practices,

unscrupulous practices, ensuring that businesses that engage in unfair or deceptive

practices are held accountable.

To conclude, these proposed changes signal a strong commitment to fairness and affordability

in British Columbia, giving consumers the tools that they need to make informed decisions

in this changing landscape. As consumers gain greater protections and access to resources

to resolve disputes, this will ultimately foster a healthier, more transparent marketplace

where businesses are held to high standards. The vast majority of businesses in British

Columbia are already there.

The amendments to the BPCPA are a vital step forward in ensuring that consumers in

British Columbia can feel secure, respected and empowered in their interactions with

businesses.

I call adjournment of the debate.

Hon. Brenda Bailey moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. Ravi Parmar moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

The Speaker : This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. today.

The House adjourned at 11:51 a.m.