Manitoba Hansard — 4 April 1972 (Sitting 27, 29th Legislature, 4th Session)

29-4-27

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Speaker The Honourable Peter Fox Vol. XIX No. 27 8:00p.m., Tuesday, April 4, 1972. Fourth Sess ion, 29th Legislature.---- - Printed by R. S. Enna- Queen'• Printer for Pnmnce of Manitoba

Electoral Division Name Political Address Affiliation ARTHUR J. Douglas Watt P.C. Reston, Manitoba ASSINIBOIA Steve Patrick Lib. 10 Red Robin Place, Winnipeg 12 Bl RTLE-RUSSELL Harry E. Graham P.C. Binscarth, Manitoba BRANDON EAST Hon. Leonard S. Evans N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 BRANDON WEST Edward McGill P.C. 2228 Princess Ave., 8randon, Man. BURROWS Hon. Ben Hanuschak N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 CHARLESWOOD Arthur Moug P.C. 29 Willow Ridge Rd., Winnipeg 20 CHURCHILL Gordon Wilbert Beard lnd. 148 Riverside Drive, Thompson, Man.

CRESCENTWOOD Cy Gonick N.D.P. 1 - 174 Nassau Street, Winnipeg 13 DAUPHIN Hon. Peter Burtniak N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ELMWOOD Hon. Russell J. Doern N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 EMERSON Gabriel Girard P.C. 25 Lomond Blvd., St. Boniface 6 FLIN FLON Thomas Barrow N.D.P. Cranberry Portage, Manitoba FORT GARRY L. R. (Bud} Sherman P.C. 86 Niagara St., Winnipeg 9 FORT ROUGE Mrs. lnez Trueman P.C. 179 Oxford St., Winnipeg 9 GIMLI John C. Gottfried N.D.P. 44-3rd Ave., Gimli Man. GLADSTONE James Robert Ferguson P.C. Gladstone, Manitoba INKSTER Hon. Sidney Green, Q.C. N.D.P.

Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 KILDONAN Hon. Peter Fox N.D.P. 244 Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 LAC DU BONNET Hon. Sam Uskiw N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 LAKESIDE Harry J. Enns P.C. Woodlands, Manitoba LA VERENDRYE Leonard A. Barkman Lib. Box 130, Steinbach, Man. LOGAN William Jenkins N.D.P. 1294 Erin St., Winnipeg 3 MINNEDO SA David Slake P.C. Minnedosa, Manitoba MORRIS Warner H. Jorgenson P.C. Box 185, Morris, Man. OSBORNE lan Turnbull N.D.P. 284 Wildwood Park, Winnipeg 19 PEMBINA George Henderson P.C.

Manitou, Manitoba POINT DOUGLAS Donald Malinowski N.D.P. 361 Burrows Ave., Winnipeg 4 PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE Gordon E. Johnston Lib. Room 248, Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 RADISSON Harry Shafransky N.D.P. 4 Maplehurst Rd., St. Boniface 6 RH IN ELAND Jacob M. Froese Soc. Cr. Box 40, Winkler, Manitoba RI EL Donald W. Craik P.C. 2 River Lane, Winnipeg 8 RIVER HEIGHTS Sidney Spivak, Q.C. P.C. 250 Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ROBLIN J. Wally McKenzie P.C. lnglis, Manitoba ROCK LAKE Henry J. Einarson P.C. Glenboro, Manitoba ROSSMERE Hon. Ed. Schreyer N.D.P.

Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 RUPERTSLAND Jean Allard N.D.P. 602- 245 Provencher Ave., St.Boniface 6 ST. BONIFACE Hon. Laurent L. Desjardins N.D.P. 357 Des Meurons St., St. Boniface 6 ST. GEORGE William Uruski N.D.P. Box 580, Arborg, Manitoba ST.JAMES Hon. A.H. Mackling, Q.C. N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ST. JOHNS Hon. Saul Cherniack, Q.C. N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ST. MATTHEWS Wally Johannson N.D.P. 23-500 Burnell St., Winnipeg 10 ST. VITAL D. J. Walding N.D.P. 31 Lochinvar Ave., St. Boniface 6 STE. ROSE A.R. (Pete} Adam N.D.P. Ste. Rose du Lac, Manitoba SELKIRK Hon. Howard Pawley N.D.P.

Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 SEVEN OAKS Hon. Saul A. Miller N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 SOUR I S-KI LLARNEY Earl McKellar P.C. Nesbitt, Manitoba SPRINGFIELD Hon. Rene E. Toupin N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 STURGEON CREEK Frank Johnston P.C. 310 Overdale St., Winnipeg 12 SWAN RIVER James H. Bilton P.C. Swan River, Manitoba THE PAS Ron McBryde N.D.P. 228 Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 THOMPSON Joseph P. Borowski N.D.P. La Salle, Manitoba TRANSCONA Hon. Russell Paulley N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 VIR DEN Morris McGregor P.C. Kenton, Manitoba WELLINGTON Philip M.

Petursson N.D.P. 681 Banning St., Winnipeg 10 WINNIPEG CENTRE J. R. (Bud} Boyce N.D.P. 777 Winnipeg Ave., Winnipeg 3 WOLSELEY

THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 8:00 o'clock, Tuesday, April 4, 1972 INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS 611 MR. CHAIRMA N: Before we proceed this evening I'd like to draw the attention of the members to the gallery where we have 23 members of the First Kirkfield Iroquois Troop of the Scouts under the direction of Mr. Kacsmar, Mr. Hunt, Mr. Dunlop and Mrs. Campbell. This group is from the constituency of the Honourable Member for Assiniboia. On behalf of all the honourable members I welcome you to the proceedings. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY MR. CHAffiMAN: Resolution 80 (a). The Honourable Minister of Labour. MR. PAULLEY: Mr.

Chairman, in introducing the Estimates for the Department of Labour, I can quite understand the interjections of my honourable friends opposite by the use of the word "pass", because I am convinced that insofar as those opposite, that there hasn't been a segment of the citizens of Manitoba who have been passed by so much by those in oppo sition as those who produce in the Province of Manitoba, and to me it is quite typical that I hear from my fellow Assembly members opposite the word "pass".

I also note, and I suppose that there is some reason for it, that when we enter into the Estimates of the Department of Labour, I cannot help but notice the absence of the Leader of the Conservative Party, and I temper this by knowing that at the present time my honourable friend, the Leader of the Conservative Party, is incapacitated physically. But I do note1 also, the absence of the Leader in this House, if one may say so, of the Liberal Party. From time to time - - (Interjection) - - my honourable friend from Lakeside in his normal verbose, say, where is my leader.

My leader, is being represented by his Minister of Labour at the present time and I don't know where my honourable friend, the Member from Lakeside spent the supper hour, but I am here answering for the government; I am here answering for the government as its spokesman in the Department of Labour and I want to say I do regret the absence of members of the opposition who are wont to go on the hustings and act as spokesmen in the interests of labour. At the offset of my remarks, Mr.

Cha:Irman, I want to put on record unequivocally where this party stands in respect of the trade union movement and the employees of Manitoba, because we fully support the principle of collective bargaining in the Province of Manitoba. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, this is . . . MR. CHAffiMAN: . . . . The Chair is having difficulty in hearing what the Honourable Minister is saying. MR.

PAULLEY: I want to say and reiterate, despite the interjections by my honourable friends opposite, that this government stands four square behind the principle of collective bargaining between employee and employer in the Province of Manitoba, and I recognize that this is rather peculiar in many jurisdictions.

I recognize that while lip service was given to this principle by the previous administration that this government is determined to give to every employee and to every employer legislative permission to give to each the opportunity to sit down around a conference table and to iron out any difficulties that they may have. You know, Mr. Speaker, it has been said in some quarters that there isn•t the right to participate in collective bargaining and I reject that contention. Where the difficulty arises is because so many of our employees in the Province of Manitoba are coerced by their employers.

It is a shame that so many of our employees are coerced by their employers which in effect prevents them from taking full participation in the laws that we have in this Province. I am determined, if I may be a little personal, that I am determined that while I happen to be the Minister of Labour in the Province of Manitoba to do whatever I can to make sure that every employee, without prejudice or withour coercion, have free rights of collective bargaining. You know, Mr.

Chairman, day after day over my desk as Minister I receive letters from individuals who are prejudiced against because they are deprived of their rights; not legislative rights, they are there, but they are deprived of their rights because of the pressures put upon them, and I want to reiterate that as far as I am concerned, and I think, Mr. Chairman, that every member of this Assembly should adopt the same attitude, that no one in this Province

612 April 4, 1972 (M R. PAULLEY cont'd) .. .. of ours should be deprived of their ri ghts to associate themse lves in organizations for their well-being. The law is there, it is up to us as legislators to see that the law is adhered and the ri ghts and priv il eges under the law are accorded to each and every employee, and of co urse to each em ployer as well in the Prov ince of Manitoba. This is the objecti v e of this government and its Minister of La bou r in the Prov ince of Manitoba. I am pleased, Mr.

Chairman, to once again hav ing the priv ilege of introdu cing the Esti ma tes of the Depart m ent of La bour. I say that to a conside rable degree tha t ma ny of the members of this House hav e devoted their time for the consideration of the Est imates of the Department. I think this refle cts that there is wi de interest in the progra ms and legislation the Department administers, which direct ly or indirect ly concerns most employees and em ployers in the prov ince and the genera l public as well.

I liste ned wi th a great deal of interest this afternoon to the remarks of the Honourabl e the Leader of the Opposition , dealing wit h the matter of succession duties and the li kes of that .

I list ened wi th a great deal of interest to hi s participation in that debate and his affirm ations that in order that this Province of Mani toba ma y go forw ard, tha t we should be concerned wit h the incom e of our citize ns, wit h the produ ction of our indu str ie s and I tru st and hope that my honourable friend the Le ader of the Opp osi tion wil l take this into consideration wh en we are dealing wit h the estimates of the Depar t ment of La bour, because after all, Mr.

Chair ma n, wh at is, wh at really is meant by produ ct ivity if it is not the appl ication of human resources to natu ral resources in order to produ ce the wealth of this pr ovi nce. So I suggest to my honourable fr iends oppos ite that the criteria of advancement in this pro vi nce partic ularly, is the app lication of human reso urces to our natu ral resources in order to produ ce the wealth that we feel is requi red, not only to prov ide, not only to prov ide, Mr.

Chairman, for assist ance for those less fo rtu nate than ourselves, but to prov ide for the we alth that is necessary to educate our childr en, to prov ide for medical and hospi tal care and the li ke.

I think , Si r, that if we here in the Prov ince of Manitoba only recognize the contrib ution that the empl oyees, and the employers giv e to the cre ation of this we alth, and recogni ze this partn ership , instead of degregating our fi nancial si tu ation in Mani toba , as indeed the Leader of the Opposit ion atte mpted to do this afternoon, that if we join hand in hand, we would be making a contrib ution to the we ll-being, not only of Mani tobans as a wh ole, but of this great Dom inion of Canada as well.

And wh en I talk of emp loyees and emp .loyers, in deference to my honourabl e fr iend the Member from Arth ur, I include the agricultural wo rker as well, because they can and do make a contr ibu ti on. But it is the toiler of the soil, it is the toiler of the factory combined that produ ces the we alth for the well-being of thi s prov ince, and the pres ent Minister of Agricult ure my dear frien d, recognizes this.

But there is a dif fer ence today, is there not ; that the Minis ter of Agriculture today recogni zes that fac t wh ereas the Minis ter of Agric ulture in the prev ious admin is tration did not - - (Interj ection) - - So I suggest, Mr. Chairm an, that the importance of the programs and legislation wi thin the Depa rtment of La bour is well rec ogni zed. I ap preciate the interest that members of this Ass embly hav e giv en in the past and I hope they wi ll once again.

This year in the Estimates of the Depart m ent you will see honourabl e fr ie nds an increase of over $400, 000, or an increase of 27 percent in the Estimates of the Department of La bour. (Interj ection) - - Th at' s right.

My honourable fr iend, the Member for Swan River st ates that he thou ght better of me than that, but unlike my honourable fr iend from Swan Rive r I recognize that in order to do the job it' s going to cost more money in order to produ ce more we alth in the Prov ince of Manitoba, in order even to take care of the increase that my honourable fr iend fr om Swan Riv er received in his indemnity last year. - - (Interjection) - Part ?

No we did eq ua lly as well and all I'm suggesting to my honourabl e fr iend from Swan Ri ver is that there should be equal tre atm ent betw een management and labou r and I think this is alien and fo rei gn to my honourabl e fr iend from Swan River as a resul t of some of the indi cations I hav e received from him in such matters as minimum wa ges and the li kes of that - - (Interj ection ) - - Th at's right , th at' s ri ght, the old pensioner himse l f wh o rejected the propo sit ion of the Cons ervativ e Party that even a pensioner on $25, 000 should rec eiv e relief fr om school taxes, wh ich I rejected.

So I don't wa nt my honourabl e fr iend, the Member for La keside, Mr. Chairman, to raise that again . Surely his head should be bow ed in shame as a result of the prop osition of his party. - - (Interj ection) - - I would suggest , Mr. Chair man , my honourable fr iend is perfectly correct beca use there is no one wh o's more capable of ut tering idiotical nonsensical ut terances than my honourable fr iend from Lakeside . But apart fr om that , Mr. Chairm an, but apart from that, Mr. Chai rman, part of the

Apri l 4, 1972 613 (MR. PAULLEY cont'd) . increase I ref er to is necessary of course to si mpl y meet the increased cost of prov iding the services we have prov ided in the past and to prov ide similar serv ices in respect of a larger labour fo rce and more building and equipment ins tallations in the pro vince. And on this note , Mr. Chair ma n, how fall acious are the sta tements eminating fr om the Off icia l Opposition in this prov ince regarding the labour fo rce in the Prov ince of Manito ba.

It is the la rgest labour fo rce ever in the hist ory of Mani toba, despite the doom and gloom utterances of the li kes of 'the Member fo r Souris -Killarney. He claim ed, Mr. Cha irm an, just to refer to my honoura ble fr iend who is bellering now, he claimed that as a result of Autopac our labour fo rce participation of Manitobans would decrease . I say to my honoura ble fr iend the labour fo rce in the Prov ince of Manitoba is hig her now under this government and goes beyond even the wi ldest dreams of the Conserv ativ e Party when it was in power. I say, Mr .

Chai rman, that the Est imates also take into account the fa ct there wi ll li kely be new labour legislation for the department to administer .

Under our pre vious adminis trations, labour legislation in Manitoba fell back in some respects even to the dark ages before the indust ria l revolution and it is our hope that wi th the legislation that we prop ose that we wi ll pull by the boot straps even support from my honoura ble fr ie nds opposite , because it is our intention to str engthen our enforcement of existing legislation as well as making pro vi sion for Legislation and enf orc ement of new legislation that may be adopted. As the Estimates, Mr.

Chai rman , we have bef ore us show, plans are being made for the imp lementation of two new prog rams ; 1. The operation of a women's bureau and the admini stration of a national building code in the prov ince. And I think I should ref er to the estab li sh ment within the De partment of Labour of a women's bure au. My honour able frie nd the only lazy member of this Assembly, proposed a resolution at the last session for the esta blishment of a wome n's bure au. And you know, Mr.

Cha irman , we acce pted the resolution - that's ri ght - we acc epted the reso lution of the Honour able Member fr om Fort Rouge ; a resolution that had been rejected time after time by the pre vi ous Conserv ativ e administration , and I think , Mr. Chairma n, it would only be fitting and proper for me to say that the Honour abl e Lady fr om Fort Rouge was fla bbergasted wh en we accepted her propos ition that ha d been rejected by Cons erva tiv e administration s. - -(Interj ecti on) - - Oh. there again , Mr. Chairm an, the interjections fr om my honourabl e unknowledgeable Member for Lakeside .

This proposition had on numerous occas ions been proposed by the New Democratic Party in Opposition. When the New Democratic Party became the government and the Cons erv atives became the Opposition we acc epted what the Conservatives rejected. So maybe my honour able fr iend is more at home on his fa rm in Lakeside there dealing wit h catt le and the li kes of this but he's so totally unknowledgeable of the require ments in the industr ial fiel d in Manitoba that I can appr eciate and acc ept his inept interj ections . We, Mr.

Chair man, have agr eed th at there wfll be a full time director heading a women 's bureau wi th st aff as required . When I say that, Mr. Chair man, I rea li ze that the Member for Lakeside or maybe Souris- Killarney or m aybe the Member for Assiniboia or Rhi neland wi ll st and up and say, all you have done as a government is increase the number of civi l servants.

I'm prepared - -(Interjec tion) - - that' s correct - - My fr iend from Arthur says tha t is correct - - and I'm prepared , I'm prepared as far as the Department of Labour to accept tha t criticism beca use we are doing in many fiel ds those reques ts that were made during the lif etime of the Conservati ve Part y in Manitoba. But, Mr.

Chai rman , ma y I say as one wh o ha s been ar ound fo r a we e whil e, the rejec tions were not ba sed on the lack of enthusiasm for new progra ms but they were rejected because philoso phica lly the Cons erv ativ e Party and governme nt did not agree that there should be such th ings or org anizations as a women's bureau wit hin the Depart ment of Labour. There is the di ffer ence, Mr. Chairm an, betw een the tw o.

And of course, saying that and recognizi ng the Cons erv ativ e Party as the Offici al Opposition , or the Opposition , I am not unmind ful of the historic position of the Libera l Pa rty in the Prov ince of Manito ba wh o ha d an opportunity at one time as a government to introduce programs for the adva nceme nt of the wor king fo rce in Manitoba. I recall, I reca ll on a number of occas ions whil e seated opposite that I said tha t the Libera l Party were doomed to oblivion because of their lack of concern for people of Manit oba . How prophetic I wa s.

And now I unders tand through the media of the Press that the present leader of the Lib era l Part y who is seated on a throne outside of this House, is now expressing grav e concern fo r the work er of Mani toba. I guess, Mr . Chai rman , it is easy for me or easy for anyone else to say wh ere were you then, but how much easier is it for me to say where are you now? Where you deserv e to be, outs ide, and not even a reco gniz ed political pa rty in Manitoba,

61 4 April 4, 1972 (MR. PAULLEY cont•d) . . . . and yet on hi gh peri odi cally we see the oracle of the Liberal Party pleading fo r the ri ght s of labour in the Provi nce of Mani toba. What a trav esty of Justice . So I say, Mr. Chai rm an, hi st ory does record from ti me to ti me the real facts.

I !mow my honourable fri end the Member fo r Assin ibo ia who is professed Libera l will at some st age or other duri ng the consideration of the Est imates of the Depart me nt of La bour will st and and say to the governm ent throu gh the Min ist er of La bour, what have you done, these are your def ici encies, and I accept them . We're not perfect , but closer to perfect ion than the Liberal government ever was in the Province of Manit oba. I !mow my honourable fri end - - (Interj ection) - - no you we ren't. And I want to say, Mr.

Chairm an, I accept the fact that my honourable fri end the Member for Assin iboi a was not here and as a resul t of the in effect iv e approach of the Liberal Par ty, many of hi s colleague s fell by the wayside and they are not here at the present ti me . And I want to say, the bleatings of the present leader of the Libera l Part y from outsi de of thi s House will not enhance the position of the Lib eral Party in the Provi nce of Mani toba. The Throne Speech, Mr. Chairm an, said that there will be a new La bour Code in trod uced in to thi s Assembly during thi s session .

I want to rea ffi rm that that will be done. I confess and I accept the re sponsibility that as of thi s parti cular date it is not before the me mbers of the Assembly, bu t I want to say to my honourable fri ends in this House that whil e it will not be perfect - - (Interj ection) - - that• s ri ght, it will not be perfect , but it will be so far advanced over what anyone could have conceiv ed that the Conserv ativ e Party would have in trodu ced by wa y of legisl ation in to this House; and, Mr.

Chairm an, I pred ic t , I predi ct that on the in tro duction of the legislat ion , one of the most voci ferou s opponents to the legis lation will be the Honourable Member fo r La keside. And I appeal to him, Sir, I appeal to him to prov e me wrong. I would really love to hav e the Honourable the Member for La kesi de say to me Mr. Minis ter, we appreci ate your endeavours but you haven't &;one far enough, and that day, that day I am prepared to tender my resi gnati on as Minist er of La bour in thi s Assemb ly and in vite my honour able fri end the Member fo r La kesi de to take my plac e.

The day wh en he turns aro und and says that the legis lation we inte nd to hav e legisl ated for doesn't go far enough. I giv e to you my honourable fri end the Member for La kesi de that in vitat ion . If you wa nt to get rid of the Mi nist er of La bour, ther e's no more simple a way that you can do it than to say that I hav en't gone far enough in in trodu cing labour legi slation for the well-bein g, not only of labour, of the work er, bu t the em ployer and all of the people of Ma ni toba - - (Interjectio n) - - yes, even in cluding the farm er of Manit oba . Because we cannot hav e, Mr.

Chairm an, in thi s provi nce, one segm ent of the community who is pre judice d agai nst, we hav e to unitedly go forw ard, and this includes hands across the table betw een labour, betw een farm er and betwe en ma nagem ent for the well-being of all of the citi zen. My honourabl e fri end the Member fo r Sour is- Kill arne y, if I heard him correc tly, said "n ever". What a sorrowf ul state me nt, wh at a sorrow f ul st atement that is, Mr.

Chai rm an, wh en an honourable me mber of this Assembly rejects a proposition that the hands of labour, farmer and ma nagem ent should not go hand in hand to the betterment of all of the citi zens of the Province of Manit oba. Mr. Chairm an, my honourable fri ends opposi te ask me wh ether I'd li ke to shake an honest hand. My answ er, Mr. Chairm an, is def in i tely yes ; if there is one across the other side of the House. I would gladly shake it . The proposition is thei:rs not mine. But I suggest, Mr .

Chairm an, that un ti l and unless we recog nize that wi thi n the boundari es of the Pro vi nce of Mani toba that we unit edly go together we 'll fai l separate ly. All too fre quently , all too fr equently in the industrial fi eld and other fi elds as we ll, we hav e segm ented ourselves and separated ourselves. And I say, too, Mr. Chai rm an, that I recogn iz e that even in the fi eld of in dust ri al relat ion s there are ti me s wh en self interests ei ther by labour or by ma nagem ent are di rected to self-preservat ion and self enhancem ent.

I recogni ze that , I'm sure that honourable me mbers by and large will re cogni ze thi s, and I rej ect it and I resent it. MR. CH AIRMAN: I remind the honourabl e min is ter he has fou r min ut es. MR. PAULLEY: Fi ne. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I don't th ink it will take any longer than fou r minutes for me to try and re-emphasize - - I will repeat it fo r my honourable fri end from Emerson in a couple of sentenc es.

I want the recog ni ti on of every me mber of this Assembly that we can uni tedly work in the best interest of all of the citi zens of Mani toba by provi di ng adequate grou nd rules for the provi sion of adequa te collective agreements between manag em ent and labour assisted by the me mbers of thi s Assemb ly. If we do that, if we do nothing else during this Assembly then we will ach ie ve som ething that hasn't been done previou sly

April 4. 1972 (MR , PAULLEY cont'

d) si nce the dat e of our bir th as a prov ince. MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Member for Pembina. I beg your pardon , The Honourable Member for Eme rs on. 615 MR. GABRIEL GIRARD (Eme rson): Mr. Chai rman, fir stly I would li ke to congra tu- late the Minister on his fo rm and his contin ued good work in the fi eld of labour. I consider th e Minister a great Mari itoban; in his own words possi bly a littl e ta rnished and prog ressi vely more and more ta rnished as ti me goes on. But th at is a na tural phenom ena. I reg ret, Mr.

Chai rman , th at the Premier is not here toni ght to hear th e labour debate; however, I hav e full conf idence th at he is very concerned about the ma tt er; and alth ough th e Attorney-G eneral and the Minister of Agricu lture is also absent, I know th at at heart th ey have full confi d:ence in their Minister of La bour and th erefore th ey are happy to leave him at the helm. Mr. Chai rman, I th ink I speak on behalf of all members of th e House when I say that we do all apprec ia te the Minister of La bour.

We like his harmless though const ant bu zz in the Le gisla tu re but we do not disres pect the honourable gentleman. We know that he is ma king grea t effor ts as a great Manit oban would, in a great number of words. I, the Member from Emer son, sometimes ca lled the insig nific ant member, the asinine fe llow from th e rural area , and as I look at my towering power of str ength, the Minister of La bour, I all but cr um ble, Sir, when I hav e the onerou s ta sk of cr itic izing such a documen t fi lled with st atistics and import ant info rma tion.

As I sat back in my pew and listened to 11H ear Ye" Manitobans, I could hardly deci de whether it was the responsibili ti es plac ed in my dire ction th at made me conc entrat e on th at speech. I ca n assure you, Mr. Chair man, th at I fol lowed it closely with all inter est and I heard the th ree th ings that were said. He said , "we are increasi ng the estima t es by 27 percent . He said , "we are going to bring in a labour code," and he repeat ed th at once or twi ce. And fi nally he said , "we are instituting a wome n's bur eau, which was already inclu ded in th e art icles to come.

We are lavish by spending the grea t sum of $25, 000 to buy this kind of bureau. Mr. Speaker, I don't suppose th at it would be disresp ectful to honest ly te ll th e Minister tha t had he fo llowed the not es written for him very closely he would have been better off because he was wasting a grea t deal of ti me in the chaff and the kernels were hard to find. The Minister says this governmen t is dete rmined to giv e every employee and every employer an oppo rt unity to sit at th e barg ai ning ta ble and discu ss labour ma tters . I wonder, Mr.

Chairma n, if the Honourable Minister wou ld agree, th at th at priv ilege always existed; and I wonder what great th ings we are doing tod ay in the Departmen t of La bour to suddenly declare th at we are gra nt ing this grea t privil ege to all Manit obans ; a privilege th at was abso lute ly deni ed them in the past ; and from what I gat hered, it must hav e been denied by the Li berals because the Conser vati ves fo und it not too badly. So many employers coercing their emp loyees says th e Honourable Minister of La bour.

I wonder if he at th at ti me th ought of th ings like maybe th e ch eck-off on the union dues. I wonder if he thou ght maybe that there was a possi bility th at at some ti me there were coerc ions fr om the unions on to th eir employees. I wonder if the Honourable Min ister at th at ti me reca lled some of the discu ssions th at we hav e had in the La bour Relati ons Commi tt ee during the past year.

Of course I can agree th at th e Honourable Minister is not kept info rmed as to all these matt ers because sometimes the info rma tion comes to desk No. 1 instead of desk No. 2, and because the Minister sits on desk No. 1 and the desk No. 2 is occupied by some body else, he ca nnot know about all matt ers in the area of labo ur. I wonder, Mr.

Speaker, if when th e Minister is saying we are assuring the free ri ght of collective bargaining to all Manitob ans, I wonder if at th at ti me he th ought "are we really that impart ial when we say to the business commu nity we are not going to get our ma te rial prin te d at your off ice because you are not unionize d", I wonder, Mr. Chairma n, if we really have the kind of impartial ity at heart that we prof ess to have. The larg est labour for ce in Manitoba, in Manit oba's history . Now that mi ght be so, and I don't deny th at th at is so, but it is a litt le bit like th e Premie r's fig ur es, Mr.

Chai rman , when he says we hav e gained X perc entage of votes in the by-election. We didn't stop to realize th at 50 votes twice over is only an increase of 100 perc ent . In perc enta ges it sounds all very good. Our labour for ce, Mr. Speaker, is not a compara ti vely large labour for ce, I th ink we hav e to admi t it. Howev er, in speaking of our labour for ce and our real good labour relati ons tha t have existed over the years, especially now that we hav e your government in power, I wonder if the Honourable Minister is aware th at th e grea t est number of man hours lost because

616 April 4, 1972 (MR. GIRARD cont'd) . . . . of strikes was in 1971 - in Manitoba's history? Says the Minister, "I have said in the past that the Liberals were destined for oblivion". How prophetic I was, says the Minister. Well I can make the same suggestion and I am sure that in time it will come true, Mr. Speaker, and I don't think that that makes anyone that pro phetic. May I, however, take a chance and say that unless the Minister of Labour should con sider his task very seriously and put his shoulder to the wheel, tackle the problems that exist in Labour, I will predict, Mr.

Chairman, that sooner or later, the Honourable Minister is destined for the Senate because he already acts as one. I want it made clear that I said "Senate", not anything else. We lnve some comments to offer with regards to particular items in the estimates, Mr. Chairman, but I think that following the procedures that we would like to follow, I would like to reserve those questions for a day that might be a little better, a day during which I might get the answers in abbreviated form, and I would like to defer, Mr. Chairman, to that time.

I am sorry to have taken seven minutes to answer the Honourable Minister but I feel that one was worth the other. Thank you. The Honourable Member for Assiniboia: MR. STEVE PATRICK (Assiniboia): Mr. Chairman, I will probably not have enough time to complete my remarks on the Estimates but I wish to make some brief remarks at the present time. One thing, it will be quite difficult to deal with labour estimates at this time, and I would have hoped that we would have had the labour code legislation before the House before the Minister's estimates were introduced. Mr.

Chairman, I have always taken the Honourable Minister very seriously in the House on every occasion that he has introduced the estimates, and today I can't say the same because I believe that he has given us a lot of chaff and really I couldn't follow what new legislation the Minister had in mind. He was talking about what happened 30 years ago, 25 years ago, and indicated to us that he was the only member that believed in the principle of collective bargaining.

I don't believe that anyone in this House at the present time is not committed and does not believe that the working man can best improve and protect his interests through strong democratic and responsible trade unions. I am sure that this kind of argument is long past, and I am very disappointed that the Minister would take the time to say that the people in the Opposition do not believe in unions, in democratic unions. These arguments are quite old and I was disappointed. I believe that I am just as much committed to self-regulating trade unions as the Minister is, and as the members of his government.

I believe that they should be strong because they can't bargain on the same basis with management if they are weak; and for the Minister to take all his time and say that it's only the members of his Party that believe in self-regulating, democratic and responsible trade unions - - I believe that all trade unions or most of them, I should say all, in fact, are responsible, because they are responsible to their members and they are responsible to society.

They are self-regulating and that's the way it should be - - To say that nobody else believes in this House, only the members of the Go\·ernment, I reject that completely, Mr. Chairman, and I cannot accept that. The Minister has indicated that he has done tremendously for the working man, and perhaps he has tried to when he was on this side of the House. But, Mr. Chairman, I would like to indicate to him and I hope he would be listening, I had to prod him along and urge the Minister to get cracking.

At no time did the Minister when he was on this side ever have a Resolution before the House that after five years of service there should be three weeks vacation with pay. At no time did the Minister put in Resolution form that the employees should get paid for statutory holidays. At no time did he put in Resolution form that the ceiling under Workmen's Compensation should be increased. At no time did he put into Resolution form that there should be a national building code, and I did. To say that he has done these things and I have waited for him to introduce that.

He didn't introduce it the first few years he was in office. I asked him the first year he became Minister of Labour to bring in a labour code; this is his fourth session, the third year and it is not here, and I don't know what he is waiting for, if he is not capable or able to do it. I believe that perhaps he is getting some heat from some of the labour people and he had to put on a show for us here. I understand even the Minister or the President of the Manitoba Federation of Labour has been giving him some heat of lately and this is perhaps why the Minister gave us the kind of presentation that he did.

I recollect quite well, Mr. Chairman, that a few years ago in 1965 I presented a proposal to this House that the Labour Board be empowered to deal with certification problems, with

April 4, 1972 617 (MR. PATRICK cont1d) . matters, and to be able to investigate immediately. Subse- quently, I believe it was six months later or a year later the Woods Committee made the same recommendation and the former government put it into legislation. So to tell the House that nobody believes in democratic unions and nobody believed in labour matters on this side ex:cept the members on that side, is nonsense, Mr. Chairman. I would like to deal with a few specifics, Mr. Chairman, and one is I would like to deal just briefly with Workmen's Compensation.

To me it is the most glaring injustice in compen sation that the wife with children is better off when her husband is alive than when he has died. The Minister has not taken any action in this area. Surely he increased the compensation a little bit the last session, but when the husband is around, even is incapacitated he can do some chores around the house, looking after children when the mother is shopping or when she is working.

When the husband dies the compensation goes down while she has to work and I•m sure that all the members are aware that a man. a person permanently and totally disabled through injury is entitled to a maximum of 75 percent of his salary for a total maximum of earnings with a ceiling of $8000. 00. If he has made let's assume, $800. 00 a month, he would be entitled to compensation of $500. 00 if he is entitled to the 75 percent compensation. But what happens if the husband dies? Mr. Chairman, the widow was not responsible for the industrial accident. She will only receive $120. 00, and, Mr.

Chairman, this is an injustice. In my opinion, the wife sho11ld receive the same salary as her husband received, the same salary. The Minister I've said has already presented his estimates four times, three years as the Minister, he has made very little progress in that area. So-- (Interjection) -- I didn't hear you. So, Mr. Chairman, I know that some would say that she can get a job. Sometimes she is not trained for any job. She may be at the age that she would not be able to'take a job and this is an area that the Minister has done very little, very little.

There was a very serious accident in Transcona a week Saturday, industrial accident. The man was only 50 years of age and I understand through no reason of his own he lost his life. Now the widow will be entitled to receive $120. 00 and in my opinion, Mr. Chairman, she should be entitled to much more.

I would say at least, at least 50 percent to what the husband would have been entitled if he would have been totally disabled, and in my opinion I think it would be a progressive step to allow at least 50 percent, but in my opinion I think she should receive as much as the husband has received through the Workmen's Compensation. I know that she will also receive $50.00 or $45.00 for children under ten and $50.00 for children between ten and sixteen, but if yon calculate it to what the husband would have received if he would have been totally disabled, lt'a a very small amount.

She still has the same bills to pay; she still has the same rent to pay, the same tax bill, the same fuel bill, the same light bill, and the same overhead to carry the overhead of her household. And in my opinion the Minister has not, not done his homework in this area. The other point I have asked on occasion before that I think that there are still problems in respect to Workmen's Compensation, and I have suggested that I believe that the Attorney General should appoint an independent legal adviser for people appealing the decisions of the Compensation Board.

It's expensive for any one person to hire a lawyer and it's dlfficult for a person just to go and appear before the Labour Board. They feel that they haven't got the same communication as they would have with an independent legal adviser. So that•s the other area that I would like to talk .. Mr. Chairman, last year the labour growth in this province was nil, was niL From 371, 000 to 373, and the average labour force was 371, 000. This year you have the growth, labour growth of 8, 000. What happens to the rest of people of some 25, 000 that go in the labour force every year? What has happened to them?

They must have left the province or gone somewhere else. So with all the satisfaction that the Minister takes ... MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please. The hour being 9:00 o'clock, the last hour of every day being Private Members' Hour. Committee rise and report. Call in the Speaker. IN SESSION MR. JENKINS: Mr. Speaker, the Committee of Supply has adopted certain resolutions and has directed me to report the same and asks leave to sit again. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The Honourable Member for Logan. MR. JENKINS: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Ste.

Rose, that the report of the Committee be received. MR. SPEAKER presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried.

618 April 4, 1972 PRIVATE MEMBERS' BILL MR . SPEAKER: This being Private Members' Hour, the first item is Private Bills on the Order Paper. On the proposed motion of the Honourable Member for Souris-Killarney. The Honourable Member for Souris-K illarney. MR . McKELLAR presented Bill No. 7,

an Act to amend

An Act to provide for the Making of Grants to The Brandon General Hospital, for second reading. MR . SPEAKER presented the motion. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Souris-Killarney. MR . McKELLAR: Mr. Speaker, in 1968 a bill was passed in the Legislature setting out certain formulas for grants by the City of Brandon, the Rural Municipality of Cornwallis, the Rural Municipality of Elton and the Rural Municipality of Whitehead. Since that time changes of boundaries have taken place in the Municipalities of Brandon, Elton and Cornwallis.

It is necessary that the grants be changed and I'd like to advise on the increase. In the City of Brandon it is $791 , 920 to $1 ,1 59, 228; in Cornwallis the grant formula has been decreased from $111 ,2 00 down to $70 , 118; in the Municipality of Elton it increased from $67,200 up to $71 ,6 07 and the Municipality of Whitehead from $21,6 80 up to $29, 047.0 0.

The purpose of these grants are to pay for the 20 percent share of the new Assiniboine Hospital, which is an extension of the Brandon General Hospital, and I think this pretty well explains this bill and I understand the hospital now is presently under construction. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Winnipeg Centre. MR. J. R. (BUD) BOYCE (Winnipeg Centre): Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Member for Crescentwood, that debate be adjourned. MR. SPEAKER presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. PRIVATE MEMBERS' RESOLUTIONS MR . SPEAKER: Proposed resolutions.

On the proposed resolution of the Honourable Member for Brandon West. The Honourable Member for Brandon West. MR. McGILL: Mr. Speaker, I woul d ask leave of the House at this time to have this resolution withdrawn from the Order Paper. MR. SPEAKER: Agreed? (Agreed) Permission granted. On the proposed motion of the Honourabl e Member for Souris-Killarney. The Honourable Member for Souris-Killarney. MR. McKELLAR: Mr. Speaker, I'd like the permission of the House to have this resolu tion withdrawn. I'm putting it back into the House tomorrow in a little different form. MR.

SPEAKER: Agreed? (Agreed) On the proposed motion of the Honourable Member for Roblin. The Honourable Member for Roblin. MR . J. WALLY McKENZIE (Ro blin): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member from Brandon West,

WHEREAS authoritative studies have indicated the vast potential for growth of tourism in Manitoba, and

WHEREAS the development of the tourist industry can be a source of economic growth and employment for all regions of the province, THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this Government consider the advisability of giving more energetic encouragement and management to the development of Manitoba's tourism resources. MR. SPEAKER presented the motion. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Roblin. MR. McKENZIE: Well, Mr. Speaker, I put this resolution on the Order Paper for several reasons and durillg the course of my remarks I hope that I will be able to spell out the reasons that I put this resolution on the Order Paper.

Basically it was something similar to the other night in the House when the debate had bogged down and nobody was prepared to speak to hel p this government get itself back on the track again and who stood up and with his wisdom and his limited knowl edge, McKenzie from Roblin waded : n and helped the Premier carry on the business of the province. And again I am on my feet tonight, Mr. Speaker, try ing to hel p the Minister of Tourism and Cultural Services to get that department on the right track and let's start moving so that we can have something happening in that particular

April 4, 1972 619 (MR. McKENZIE cont 'd) • . . • . portfolio in this province. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. MR. McKENZIE: And, Mr. Speaker, were it not for various releases that happen to come across my desk I wouldn't have expressed the concern that I am expressing to you to night, Mr. Speaker. But I have one of the News Services items which was handed to me in my mail on the 25th of February, 1972, and this is the propaganda machine working at its best and it said: ''Increased activity in sports is urged. Advisory Committee report is released.

In creased emphasis on professional leadership training; expansion of consultative services; closer liaison between sports bodies and government agencies, and a heavier financial input by government into facilities and services for recreation and support of amateur sports is called for in a recently completed report of the Advisory Council for Fitness and Amateur Sport." And I thought that was a very fair statement, one that has been in the back of my mind for some time, Mr. Speaker. And the News Service item goes on down in, I think, the third last clause and it quotes the Minister, Mr. Speaker. It says, "Mr.

Desjardins emphasized that while a heavy input of government money might be desirable for building recreational facilities these funds in fact -- these funds are in fact very limited and the major responsibility for creation of facilities rests with people of a community." Now that is a statement for a government that's supposed to be leading this province, that the people , people can help. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The Honourable Minister of Tourism and Recreation. HON. LAURENT L. DESJARDINS (Minister of Tourism, Recreation and Cultural Affairs) (St. Boniface): Mr.

Speaker, I don't rise to complain but I want to know if this is --I wonder if this --if I can get clarification. The motion deals with tourism, now he's talking about sports and amateur - fitness and amateur sport. I don't have -- I have no --this is fine with me but I'd like to know if we 're speaking on the motion now or is he complaining about the whole portfolio. I appreciate that he wants to help me but I'd like to help . . . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Roblin. MR. McKENZIE: Mr.

Speaker, I will get to the meat of the matter i.f the Minister would only wait and of course being a good Minister and having shifted armin d this House from various chairs, and the whole shifting, I know he's really all fired up tonight and he can't wait to hear my remarks. If the Minister will just wait I'll get to the meat of my remarks and try and document my case a little further. But, Mr.

Speaker, that was the first concern that drew to my attention the fact that this Minister is not capable of handling that port folio because that -- coming out of the propaganda machine, you know, if he made that release I suspect that he wished now he hand't made it because he wouldn't have been on his feet. Well let's move on, Mr. Speaker, and I pick up a press release from the Free Press of March 8th, 1972, and the report says here: "Too little government money, tourist industry complains." And I'll quote.

Barry Mohan is the writer and he says under this little article, "The Provincial Government's Tourism and Recreation Department took a few verbal lumps Tuesday even though it was the host day of a long day's seminar dealing with package tours." And he goes on down, he said, and he quotes here: ''Instead the Tourism Department was rapped --the Tourism Department was rapped for failing to provide leadership, to provide leadership in the tourism industry and it was criticized for failing to provide enough money for promoting the all-important tourist industry." Free Press release March 8th, 1972.

That was my second concern, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister on a point of order or on which .. . MR. DESJARDINS: I would like to know, Mr. Speaker, who he was quoting. I know it's from the Free Press but who made those remarks please, Mr. Speaker. He's quoting some body, I'd like to know who. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Roblin. MR. McKENZIE: I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker, I didn't hear the Minister's question. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister. MR. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, who is my honourable friend quoting --from the Tribune --but who made those statements? He must have that there.

I wouldn't want him to take anything out of context. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Roblin. MR. McKENZIE: Mr. Speaker, do you want me to table this document? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister on a point of order.

620 April 4, 1972 MR. SCHREYER: Yes, Mr. Speaker, what is raised .. . a serious enough point of order. I believe it's a very clear rule of procedure that if a source is quoted in the Assembly that it must be identified . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Roblin. -- (Interjection) -- The Honour able Member for Lake side. MR. ENNS: On the same point of order as raised by the Honourable the First Minister.

I believe, Sir, if we were all listening carefully, the Honourable Member for Roblin did in fact identify the source of the information when he first introduced it, namely he mentioned the publication from which he was reading. It's common usage to refer to the media from time to time. As to who was the actual writer is I think a pretty difficult question to pose to the Honourable Member for Roblin. I think he has identified the news media that has published the material and if the Minister wishes to dispute that, that of course is his privilege. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. MR.

SCHREYER: Obviously the Member for Roblin indicated the news media which carried the

article but the source of the quotation was my point of order, Mr. Speaker. It ought to be identified as to source, that was my only point of order. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Roblin. MR. McKENZIE: Mr. Speaker, on the same point of order, with all due respect I quoted the writer in my remarks under whose

article the name appeared in the . . . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister. ' MR. DESJARDINS: . . . satisfied that I know who wrote this. Mr. Mullen was quoting Dr. Joseph Slocum, former Conservative MP. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Roblin. MR. McKENZIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Honourable the Minister can form his own conclusions. I, in all due respect, Mr. Speaker, have my own and I think I'm entitled to my own. Well, the third reason, Mr.

Speaker, I am on my feet tonight to deal with this very im portant subject matter is anotre r press release and this is the other media of the village or the city dated January, '72, and it speaks about the great tourist potential that was stressed at the annual -- a certain annual meeting. And I'll read some of the paragraphs again for the Honourable Minister and I guess he's not getting the daily papers in town --I 'm sure he must have read these articles because I've read them several times.

But anyway it starts out, "Although overlooked by private and government planners south central Manitoba holds vast untapped potential for the tourist industry, Wayne Panna-, outgoing President of the Central Plains Branch of the Tourist and Convention Bureau told an annual meeting. Mr. Panner told about 40 people at the meeting that the Tourist and Convention Association is the tool which can develop that potential and that any development is limited only by the imagination of tiE people living in the area." And there is what I was -w here is the imagination of this Minister in southwest Manitoba?

These people are asking for this Minister's wisdom and his knowledge and his ability to go and help them pursue an industry that has fantastic potential in this pro vince, Mr. Speaker. And that again I think is fair game, Mr. Speaker, for me to stand up here and try and help this Minister to get on the right track to develop the tourist industry of this province .. . I clipped anotlEr one here, Mr. Speaker, and here is one that says, "D esjardins hears plea for road." January 28th. And this is, I think, the Tribune in this particular case, Mr. Speaker. But anyway it quotes the Minister here.

"The Minister said there was some dissatisfaction expressed with the government's policy of leasing lots for re sort cottages rather than selling them." It goes on and says, "Some groups complained of a need for more provincial parks in the north and more access to existing roads. A frequent suggestion called for increased northern representation on tourism and cultural planning boards. " Now where has the Minister been that he hasn't picked up this kind of information from the north?

I gave him some advice on the southwest corner, now I've moved up to the north to show him of the wisdom and the --these people are eager for this Minister to come up and join them and give them some of his great wisdom and his knowledge as they try to pursue this tourist dollar. Mr. Speaker, we could move on and on. I can quote here at great length and I can quote for well over my 20 -minute limit. Let's deal now with "The Beginning and End of the World", this great film which was produced in this province. Now the Minister he does -- well I'll quote now from Mr. Telpner from the Tribune again.

"The Beginning and End of the World, the Manitoba -made film. Do

April 4, 1972 621 (MR . l\IcKENZIE cont'd) .. ... you remember this one ? I' ll speak over here then . Possibly - "The Be ginning and End of the World . The rr .ade in Manitoba film by Omni -Theatre with the assist of $235, 000 loan from the l\Ianitoba Devel opment Co rporation holds its world premiere tonight in Gates Planetarium in Denver, Colorado ." And he asks why ? "Why Denver ? Why not Manitoba ? Well why wasn't this, the premiere of this great show in this great pro vince when the film was devised in this pro vince ." Now Mr .

Telpner goes on and he says ''No w with most of the bugs ironed out the Winnipeg Planetarium isn 't available for the second premiere so the Denver location was chosen . If the production comes off as scheduled tonight it'll be booked for three months at that particular Gates Planetarium . Then it 's slated for a three -month booking at Los Altos Hill Planetarium which is about 50 miles north of San Fran cis co. Other cities which have shown interest in the booking "The Be ginning and the End of the World" are St .

Loui s, Roche ster, New York, Calgary and Vancouver ." And where is the l\Iinister guiding us that we could have had the honour and the privilege of seeing the premiere of this great show. " But it goes on -- Mr. Telpner goes on and he says down here, "l\Ioney is a major problem of Omni -Theatre . The $235, 000 was exhausted in production costs and the province refused an additio nal loan ." Said l\Ir . R ... , "for the Denver premiere the staff of Omni-Theater had to put up their own money ." Ga this -- they put up their own money .

"All of us on the permanent staff, ten, and all have waived our salaries since the first of November because we· have confidence in the film ." The Minister hasn't, nor has the govern ment . So far there 's only one print and with the present rate of bookings it 's pos sible that Winnipeg wo n't see it until late 1972 . Now this - in fact if this Minister is serious about guiding us in our culture and our touri st industry surely he should have some way to at least -- if he couldn't have the first showing of that "Beg inning and End of the Wor ld" , we could have had the second showing . And let 's move on, Mr .

Speake r. Another, of cours e, reaso n for the reso lution, Mr. Speaker, was the Hecla Island projec t. The Hecla Island project that got priority over people, and that's quite a story . This government is supposed to be looking after the little man; this is a people's government you know; they've got all the wisdom. to look after the little guy and if this is an example of government looking after the little guy I must be -- I can't believe it. I just can' t believe that this could happen in Hecla Island with an NDP gover nment .

First of all the Walker report which I asked the Minister the other day about , and no doubt I will get it in time , but in his report Walker goes on to sa y: Jack S. Walker, who conducted the inquiry for the government , reports that the people of the is land were not given a fair deal . The people of the island , Mr. Speaker , were not given a fair deal by an ND P Government ? Impos sible . It goes on down the artic le , Mr . Speaker, and he says here , Mr . Walker says, "the islanders stood on the sidelines forgotten in the rush of activitie s" .

The rush of activit ies of bureauc rats and the Minister no doubt . And he goes on and says, "They became the least matter of concern in the parks development program" . These little people from Hecla Island, this great govern ment monstrosity, and this Minister with all his burea ucrats walking over those little people from Hecla Island . He goes on -- the

article , Mr . Speake r, it says here , "L ittle co nsideration has been given as to how these people if expropriated would earn their livelihoods and to what extent they would be allowed to fish from this island" . Co uld you imagine that ? Helgi Jones not being allowed to fish from the island on Hecla Island ? But here we have , you know , this great new government of the little people walking over our friends from Hecla Island . They can 't even fish out there now. So I ask the Minister in all due respect to go and look after the people of Manito ba , the little people as you promised in all your electio n material and all the things that have co me across my desk. And this

article goes on and it 's interesting, Mr . Speaker, to read some of the remarks of these little people from Hecla Island . Here 's a man here , William Groves Speechly, a retired school teacher, said at the inquiry , "The cl osene ss of the community is such that if I were to take one of the grandchildren out sailing I may be taking the father and the grandfather and in some cases the grandfather before them ." MR . SPEAKER: Order plea se . MR . McKENZ IE: That's the culture ... MR . SPEAKER: Order . The honourable member has five minute s. MR . McKEN ZIE: ... Hecla Island . l\Ir.

Speaker, I' ll read at length again . I quote a l\Irs. Grayson, another cottager, told of the great attachment to Hecla Island . She and her father and her father 's father had enjoyed the island for 75 years . "Now" , she said , "the plans

622 April 4, 19 72 (MR. McKENZIE cont 'd) •• ••• of this NDP Government and the park have descended upon us and we are being asked to leave, " Asked to leave Hecla Island, with all that history and all that culture that they have on this island and this government that 's supposed to be looking after the little people and the rig hts of little people is wading in just like a steamro ller, Mr , Speaker, and moving them out , And, Mr. Minister , I appeal to you in all sincerity , don't do this to these people of Hecla Island, The ••• -- it says here, Mr.

Speaker , it goes on and says, Gunglar Benson --(Interjection ) -- Yes, Mr . Speaker , it quotes one Gunglar Benson told of being offered -- he was offered $1 0, 500 for one mile of lake front, Imagine, And 155 acres and his home, Ten thousand five hundr ed dollars for one mile of lake front , his land and his home, Now that 's not a fair expro priation I woul::l submit , Mr. Minister.

On such an offer he said it would be impossi ble for him to relocate elsewhere, Now this is interesting, This great government of the little people, they're talking about relo cating people and shifting -- and quarreled with us when we tried to relocate the people from Southern Indian Lake -- they 're sending this man out as a paup er , $1 0, 500 for one mile of lake front on Hecla Island, plus his house and his property for $1 0, 500. Mr. Speaker , I submit that this Minister is not doing his job, I don't think the Minister is be ing fair to these people of Hecla Island and I'm, like Mr.

Benson possibly, he said, "I'm happy here I just want to be left alone if this is the kind of a government tha t's going to help me to develop my futur e, " And, Mr. Spea ker , we can go on and on and find all kinds of evidence of this Minister , and there's no end to the articles and the quotations that you can find that this -- while he's new and he's fresh and he's a nice guy but he does need help and , Mr. Speaker , in all sinc erity I will offer my service to this Minister and help him guide tourism in this province, MR, SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Tourism and Recr eation, MR, DESJARDINS: Mr.

Speaker , I'm touched by the sincerity of the appeal of my honour able friend who is just trying to help me, I would thank him, I agree with the first paragraph of his resolution, I also agree that he has very little knowledge of the subject as he told us . He covered a few things and maybe I should start with Hecla Island.

I was anti cipating that he'd make an appeal today and things haven't been going too badly for the people of Hecla Island, First of all let me inf orm my honourable friend that this proj ect was first started by the Conservative Government and the biggest criticism that we have is that there has not been communication wi th the government that decided to expro priate Hecla Is land to develop the park in Hecla Island, Now this government , as my honourable friend recognizes so willingly , has been wanting to do some thing for these small people.

The first thing they did, they brought in a res olution here, an amendment to the Expro priation Act because sometimes bureaucra ts , governmen ts , and so on, get carried away . They want to expr opriate certain things and it might be that it 's not needed at the time, or all of the parcels were not needed. All my friends supported the government in this amendment and the amendment says that if somebody feels that they have not been -- that there is no need, immedi ate need for their property , they could appeal to the inquiry offi cer.

And this was done accord ing to the new Act, exactly what this government wanted to do because it re alized that people are not perfect in government and sometimes you get carried away , You might mean well but you're not -- the re' s a danger of not protecting the small, So this report came out and sug gested that in certain areas the people were not -- should not have been expropria ted immediately. So shortly after I took over the protf olio , after studying the ••• , Mr.

Speaker, the situ ation, I called two meetings , One of them was with the cottage owners in the area, and my friend hasn't dealt with the cottage owners but I might tell him that we had a very produc tive , very friendly meeting, I believe they left quite happy. They know that the door to my office is always open, We have given them -- we are going to develop Grindstone Park on the mainland with cottages and these people will get the first choice on this cottage in this area, the first choice of the lots will be something maybe even nicer than we have around Falcon Lake.

They've acc epted this, lilome of the people want to stay in their cottage as long as they can. We said we'll deal with you separately , also individually.

They were satisfied, Then I went to He cla Island and called a meeting of the people, and all those people men tioned in the report were told that -- were mentioned in the report -- even those that had appealed, even those that had requested that their case be studied, even though they were late we treated the same, treated them the same, because this was the intent of government, And we told every one of them that had been mentioned in the report, expro priated under the revised

April 4, 1972 623 (MR. DESJARDINS cont'd) .••• Act, that we would not expropriate them. But we told them it 's no secret we would like to have this property because we're going to develop something; we 're going ahead; we're going to spend an awful lot of money here, And we said to them too , to induce you to try -- we've told them that we would give them a chance, it they would sell to us we would give them a lifetime lease-back on the island.

So my dear friends , nobody 's chasing them away, You've mentioned some of the friends that want to be th er e, they don't live there, It's unf ortuna te, but they don't live ther e, we can't do anything about it, Now these people will get a lot of them in the same place where they are now and we will try to have a develop , , , - the plans are not finished on this -- a fishing village and these people will be living ther e, So ther e's no problems in Hecla Island, I would say that the people are quite satisfied, We did an awful lot more than we had to do because we believe, like you say, in not pushing people around, I think that they 're satisfied.

We 've established a means of communication that they never had bef ore. Now my friend talked about the Advisory Board of Fitness and Amateur Sport , and he loves to quote out of context. He talked about -- that I said there was a limited amount of money , and that 's true, We are proposing having certain amounts for capital , to help in capital construction, Our research and planning branch have done their homework. We know what facilities we have. We can tell you in a short time where there are arenas , or skating rinks , and so on; what population they serve and so on. We will look at th is in a priority item.

Now this is going to be quite difficult because even now I just leaked that to the press and this is not -- the program is not fully appr oved yet and I, nearl y every day I get th ree, four , five letters from people that want to get in on the gravy train. And what I was trying to say, Mr . Speak er , is tell these people is that we 'll be selective; that we will help those that want to help themse lves; that you don't come in and parachut e a program because you believe in it , you let the people get involved and if they 're satisfied, if they 're inter ested, then you help them out.

For instance I can give an example of something that I would feel would be at the top of the priority list, people of The Pas. They wanted a swimming pool. The Knights of Columbus, the Shrin er s, everybody sold tick ets , raised money. They got help through Winter Works, they got every thing and they had $15, 000 missing on something about -- a proj ect of about a quar ter of a million dollars . And I feel that this as far as I'm concerned would be one of the first priorities. These people tried to help themselve s. They didn't just say, how much do we get ?

We have to take advant age of this because it 's all your money , taxpa yers ' money , it doesn't matter where it comes from. We feel that if they can do their

part it will be matching grant . That we won't come in and parachute and say this is what you want for this area. So if my friends feel that we're not going to spend enough money , that I'm saying go easy, that we don't auto matically stamp every application and say here's a quarter of a million, here's a half a million, I can say that would it be one dollar that we spend it will be one dollar more than my friends did when they were in off ice. Now my honourable friend again has quoted or quoted out of context. He quoted Barry Mullens, I think, in making a statement. This is fine.

But he forgot to say that this fellow is a reporte r, he was writing a story and that statement was made by Dr. Joseph Slocum, the well-known Conservative MP, my friend -- ex MP. So we don't take that too seriously. Now my friend who not too long ago who likes to get up in this House and tell us about free enter prise so now all of a sudden feels that this government should do everything, should prom ote , should build everything for spor ts, for recreation, all these things to promote all this private enterp rise, and so on, and I think that we're doing quit e a bit already.

Although he says that there's no -- he's talking about the road. Well the road has nothing to do with this department. Now he feels that we're not -- well that was rather comical when he talked about the premiere of this film , he wants us to spend for tourism and he wants to have the honour to keep the -- he wants us to keep the film here so he can go and watch it at the Planetarium. Well I think that first of all if we spend half a million dollars -- a quarter of a million dollars or so to bring in tou rists , we're going to try to attract tourists.

My friend, as we know, knows the beauty of Manitoba, He doesn't have to watch a film to do that, But I might say to him that we started last year, that we started an in-province advertising also , and this is something new, that we feel that this will promote the unity that we need here and let us know what 's going on in the province and also we hope that 'll keep some of the dollars here in Manitoba, Now he was rather concerned about the north. I might say that one of the first things I did after I took over this portfolio was go up north , exactly what he suggests, but he's a little

624 April 4, 1972 (MR. DESJARDINS cont 'd) .•••• behind time, with the directors of all the different branc hes. We went wi th the N orthern Regional Developing Corporation. We had to go twice because we had trou ble flying it was dur ing the srike and then the storms.

We were in Churchill , Lynn Lake , Gillam and Flin Flon, and The Pas and in Thompson, We liste ned to what they had to say and now we are pleased to tell my honourable friend that our Direc tor of Research and Planning who already has quite a bit of inf ormation is going to head a team who will go on and do the actual work and the res earch for the recom mendat ions to esta blish the proper policies.

I might tell my honourable friend , who will be very happy to know also , that in the Estimates that we will be looking at fairly soon we have the funds to have another tourist developing officer for the north , stationed in the north, and somebody that will study the potential of the tourist industry in the-north also, We have tried to get busy, I have talked to different people, for example the Vice Pres ident of Northwest Airlines has been over to see me to discuss the possi bility of adver tising and try to bring people to Manito ba, something that they weren't doing.

They recog nize that they could do an awful lot more. We've had good co-operation and they are starting to produce alr eady , and this is only aft er a couple of mon ths. I might say that this seminar that my friend was talking about is some thing new ; that private enterprise wasn't doing anything and ••• trying to develop these packaged deals , and this something good for good business for my honourable friend, We have tried to give leader ship on this, We were criticized.

We acc ept some criticism and we have provided this and we already have at least two packaged deals, one involving the Northwest Ai rlin es; also these people will try to have these parcel deals. We are very pleased to know that the cultural facili ties , the promotion that we are going to do there, the festival and so-on, we feel that this will pay off also.

I am pleased to tell my honourable friend also that we are busy now in the construction of a Tourist Reception Centre at the border of Ontario , some thing that will be quit e importa nt , some thing that should help the tourist because as you know Manitoba is the centre of Canada; some people are going to the Coast and if you remember my honourable friend, who was sitting close to where my friend is sitting now , the former member from N eepawa used to say, "linger a little longer in Manit oba" , and we are trying to interest the people in either going up north or staying to see some of our cultural facili ties , because we feel that we are second to , the city is second to none, at least in North America in this respect, We are pres ently discussi ng and negotiating with the Province of Saskatchewan to have a tourist rece ption centre at that border that will do the same thing, catch the people on that side, We are also doing a lot of work and we have studied the mark et , instead of appealing to certain people that would come here; we are trying to appeal to certain areas very close to here, and then we are going in the Chicago market also.

We feel that this has paid off, I would like to tell my honourable friend that we've • • • --my honourable friend asked me certain questions but he is not too in terested. I don't know whether I am wasting my time here, Mr. Speaker , I thought he rea lly wanted to know this very sincerely and I accepted this and I am trying to give him the info rmation because I am sure that this will warm his heart to know that we are indeed providing the leadership that he wanted.

Now that I might say that the visitors to Manitoba have increased from 1968 as I sa id befo re , the last year that my friends were in power where there was an increase of minus • 88 per cent , but again I must say that this was after the Centennial year and that was expected. But then in 1969 we had an incr ease of 8 perc ent where the national average was plus 3 perce nt .

In 1970 that I must also be honest and say, that this was our Centennial year , we had an increase of 14, 8 percent where the national average was 3, 8 perce nt , so we should have had a decrease in 1971 the same as after the Federal Centennial, or the country centenni al, but we had another increase following our 14, 8 perc ent of 4, 8 perce nt where our national increase was only 3, 6 perce nt . Now the visitors to Manitoba in 1968 were 2-1/2 million; in 1969 , 2. 7; 1970, 3. 1; 1971, 3. 25 and we expect 3-1/2 million in 1972, MR. CHAIRMAN: Order please. The Honourable Minister has five minu tes . MR .

DESJARDINS: Well , Mr . Speaker , I tried to cover the points that my honourable friend talked to, He talked about fitness and amateur sports ; he talked about the report of this Committ ee, I might say to him that we certainly are not going to stand by on • • • A lot of these re commendations that were done we've had these things under contr ol, things that we were going to do ; they worked with some of our people in this report. We are very close to

April 4, 1972 625 (l\ffi, DESJARDINS cont 'd) •.••. these people ; they are doing a good service, I might say to them that we are contemplating rea sonable gains to promote fitness and amateur sports to give the kids a chance to participa te, We also are thinking of northern games .•• this will lead us to the Canadian games which has winter games and summer games in the Olympic Trial Games , I think that this is something that should interest my friend .

We cert ainly have hoped to help the recr eation and that , of course -- maybe I am stretch ing the point, my honourable friend brought this up, and that cert ainly has something to do with tou rism. I mi ght say that even for winter spor ts, for examp le, it might be a minor thing to my honourable fr iend, but I think a lot of people will be happy. We have the funds in the Estimate to have an ice- making machine to help the skiing, so I think I might say that you need roof for your swimming pools out there and this is what we are going to try to do for the north . Now, Mr.

Speaker, this is such a challenging department that I find it very very in terest ing and I welcome of course the help from my honourable fr iend but I think that if he wants to help he should read all the art icles now, not just a line here anq ther e, and I think that maybe before making any statements he should try to get the inf ormation, I will be glad to sit wi th him and give him some of the informa tion, and mind you I think I am looking fo rward to debating the Estimates with my honourable friend because I am sure it will be very interesting, l\ffi , SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Assiniboia. l\ffi , PATRICK : Mr.

Speaker , I wish to make a few comments on this re solution. I was very interested to listen to the Honourable Minister for Tourism and am quite happy to see the enthusiasm that he shows for this department , particularly tourism and recrea tion.

I think that the re solution certainly has merit , that we should encourage the develop ment of Manito ba's tourist industry and as has been indicated by the former speaker that tourists don't stay long enough in Manitoba and perhaps if something could be done that they would stay a little longer, I think it would be quite proper for the Minister to see what could be possi bly done to have the tourists stay somewhat longer .

We have many historical sites in Manitoba, We have a tre mendous amount of historical lore as Winnipeg and Manitoba was the centre of development of western Canada, For example we have the records of the buff alo hunt s of the 1800 's, the hunters and the Red River carts , and surely some of these could be re created and I am sure that this would be most interesting to our tou rists, Secondly, our people in Manitoba are very fr iendly by natur e, and this in its elf is good fo r the touris ts, but the • • • Mr .

Speaker , and the bea uty of the tourist industry that it benefits all the Province of Manitoba not only Wi nnipeg.

I understa nd only 35 percent of the tourists that come to this province stay in the City of Winnipeg and the rest travel other parts of the province, From inf ormation and statistics that has been quoted to us , a family spends approxi mately $1 55, 00 for such things as accommodation and mea ls, transpor tatio n, and other thin gs, entertainment and shopping , and if the Minister can find enough histori cal lore for these people to stay a little longer , or linger a little longer , perhaps they would be spending much more money than $1 55, 00 that they do, The thing that the government is awar e that the tourists they buy gas; there's tax on fuel; they make certain purch ases there is sales tax on, and of all of the taxes that are paid thro ugh, and as a resu lt of the tourist indu stry, I think it comes to some where in the neig l'.bourho od of $40 million a year and my inf ormation is that last year that we spent somewhere in the neighbour hood of a million dollars for tourist prom otion, and if we can get as much as $40 million spent by the tourists in this provi nce, I think it is a good indication in itself that there is much room for imp roveme nt , but not only improvement, for treme ndous development of tourist industry in this province.

I am told that we can double that amount in no time with proper prom otion, so it is my opinion that the Minister has a big job cut out in this area; that we can get· more tourists coming not only to Winnipeg and Manitob a, but perhaps I would be interested to hear from his journey and his trip up north what he has planned for tourist promotio n, or tourist development, in Northern Mani toba, I had a letter just the other day fr om a unio n from Thompson and this is one of the, I believe , res olutions that they passed, or discussed, that they feel that there should be some tourist promotion and development in northern Manitoba, I did not hear the Minister say anyth ing about the second National Park.

I know that when the Federal Minister, Mr. Chretien was here, he said that the government can go ahead with development of the second National Park and it 's up to the present government to go ahead and make a start and proceed, He said the money is available and it's in their hands. Well if any

626 April 4, 1972 (MR. PATRICK cont 'd) •.•.• sharing agreement that the Federal government has and it 's the land, I understand that the Provincial Government has to okay the site and give the land so I believe that the government is lagging as far as the second national park is concerned, unless they don't believe in a second National Park, the Provincial Government. MR . SPEAKER: Order pleas e. The Honourable Minister of Tourism and Recr eation. MR. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if my honourable friend would like to remain in order and make an amendment to cover all this.

We are talking about tourism and now ••• . I would like to ..• MR. SPEAKER: Or der please. The member has spoken already. The Honourable Member for Assi niboia. MR. PATRICK : Mr. Speaker , I am sure that a second National Park is part of the tourist industry in Mani toba. I think a treme ndous amount of reven ue will accrue to the government as a resu lt of a second National Park, because I am sure the Minister is awar e that the number of tourists that come to say our Clear La ke National Park, Wasagaming, and I am sure that the same thing would happen if there was another or a second National Park developed.

What I am trying to indicate to you, Mr.

Speaker , is that with the small amount that we spend in tourist development, the small amount that we spent last year, and there was somewhere in the neig hbourhood of $40 million spent by the tourists in this provi nce, and I am sure that this amount could be doubled or tripled with just a little more promotion and development in this area, so not only as revenue that would accrue to this province but I also believe that it would provide the seasonal employment for many of our univer si ty students who need jobs, and this would also be of great benefit to many of our students who would be able to get employment and income.

So , Mr. Speaker , I do feel that the re solution has some merit and I hope that the Minister will be able to give development of tourism the same type of enthus iasm as he demon strated just a few minut es ago. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Gimli. MR. JOHN c. GOTTFRIED (Gimli) : Mr. Speaker, I feel compelled to enter the debate on this re solution because tourism and recr eation has been one of the ma jor indus tries and also one of the maj or sources of income in the constituency I represent.

The re solution would have us believe that our government is some how not encouraging the management and development of Manitob a's tourism resources as energetically as it might. And this I re ject outright. If anything, the posi tion of the Op posi tion on the advisability of instituting Lake Winnipeg regu lations makes one wonder whose interests our opponents are preserving. Cert ainly it is not in the in terests of prese rving and developing a healthy tourist indu stry, and the area of Lake Wi nnipeg in par ti cular .

Lake Wi nnipeg is one of our largest inland fresh water lakes and as such I feel that the reg ulations that have been suggested by our government will do more to encourage and preserve tourism and recr eation than a good many of the things that have been carried on in the past. Tourists in my area are going elsewhere. They are going elsewhere because of the effects of high water level, the poor beaches and shoreline erosion that has existed in the past. Their complaints are directed not so much against what our government proposes to do , but against what past governments have failed to do.

Let 's look at Wi nnipeg Beach, one of our former foremost tourist and summer resort are as . This was allowed to deteriorate to such an extent that under the Canada-Manitoba FRED plan, Winnipeg Beach had to be purchased and redeveloped by Provincial Parks Branch. --(Interj ection) -- Just hold on a minut e. Since coming into offi ce this government has directed the completion of improvements of over one million dollars to develop the site as a day-use recr eation and tourist beach for vacationing fami lies.

Now it 's quite true that the proj ect was begun while the former government was in off ice, we however did see it through. But let 's take this a little fur ther . But the wide sandy beaches are no longer there as in former years due to high water . MR . SPEAKER: Order , pleas e. MR. GOTTFRI ED: Yes these sandy beaches are gone due to the high water level and what suggestions have our opponents for improving this situati on ? Is it the installation of a control mechanism in the north with a suitable pattern of re gulat ion ? No.

They would have us sit back, do nothing and wait for a return of the dry years of the 1930 's. Now I lived in that area during those years, and I saw the beaches during those years, and believe me it was a pleasure for people to come down from Winnipeg into that area to spend the summer.

April 4, 1972 (MR, GOTTFRIED cont '

d) Might I add Lake Winnipeg offers tourist attractions 627 during the winter season for snowmobiling, and other winter sports, But here again comments voiced by the opponents against Lake Winnipeg regulations would have us believe that adverse slush-ice conditions would result, Irresponsible statements like these are a definite dis service to our province and the growth of our tourist industry.

Now moving on to Gimli, now moving on to Gimli , an area I know quite well , and the recently announced recreational development project, our government in conjunction with the Federal Government are in the process of spending well over $1 .4 million. Thus far $967 , 000 has been approved for eight projects including a marina , fishing village, trailer park, museum and improvements to the beach and town park. How much more energetic can a government get in the area of tourism ?

Located on the shores of Lake Winnipeg, which incidentally ranks as the eleventh largest freshwater lake in the world, its warm summer waters provide un limited opportunity for water sports, including swimming, cruising, sailing, and by the way, it was the location of the 1967 Pan American sailboat races, and last summer it was also the location of the Canadian Fireball Championship races.

Water skiing and fishing, and last, but not least, the Islendingadagurinn which attracts tourists from all parts of the world is held annually in Gimli, -- (Interje ction) -- Ah it 's a hard one, I could go on to mention our government's involvement in the Hecla Island development.

Now I'd like to point out here that Hecla was -- the Hecla Island project was conceived by the former government and was in the process of being implemented when we came into office, And the Hecla Island, and also the continuing purchase of lakeshore property for camping and parksites, not to mention the expenditure of money on highway improvements leading into the choice camping, hunting and fishing areas of the north, But enough has been written in the many bulletins published by the department.

Anyone sincerely interested in discovering what we are doing to attract tourist s, and to expand the influx of tourist dollars in this, one of our most vital income producing enterprises, should get ahold of some of these pam}illets. See them ? See them ? They're free too. And in here you'll see extolled the many attractions awaiting the tourist in this province, So therefore contrary to the implied and veiled sug gestion contained in this resolution I would like to commend the Department of Tourism for the vigorous manner in which it is pursuing the development of Manitoba's tourist resources, MR.

SPEAKER : The Honourable Member for Lakeside, l\ID., ENNS: Mr. Speaker, it's been a rare pleasure to have had with the introduction of this resolution, firstly, the instant contribution by the Minister himself.

One might have thought that he would have taken the advice so capably given by the Honourable Member for Roblin seriously and satisfy himself to relax a little bit, after all his Estimates aren't up yet , listen to the contributions that various members might have chosen to make on this particular resolution from this side of the House, or that side of the House, and then have risen at the due and proper time and expounded and explained the wisdom that he had to bring on this reso lution.

However he , of course, has now prohibited his own opportunity of speaking further on this resolution, -- (Interjec tion) -- Well now we're going to have aJl amendment on the resolution. Well that of course gives us an opportunity to reconsiderthe.things that we may want to say at this particular time and gives us all another chance, because it is, it is a very important resolution.

It is in an area that I think we have all collectively, you know, are prepared to accept as being "the" area where growth, "the" area where encouragement of growth has the least of all kind of harmful you know aspects that we have some concern about when we encourage the same kind of growth in other sectors. It 's the area that we in this province particularly feel that we may be coming into our own as the wilderne ss areas and the lack of natural habitat begins to diminish, and it's that kind of an area where development should be encouraged to the maximum.

It 's also of course an area where I think we can dis cuss ·without too much acrimony because it is an area where I think, at least in this province , for instance unlike some of the other provinces , governments and not socialist governments but government of the past . • • l\ID., SPEAKER : Order , please, Order, please, The hour being 10 ,0 0 o' clock the House is now adjourned and stands adjourned until 2:30 Wednesday afternoon.

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	29-4-27
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	29th 4th hansardpdf 27.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ff9cf8890ece508b9aaec8bc7db759799ebeabd5

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