Debates of March 4th, 1993

This is page numbers 725 - 749 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was languages .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Mine Safety Bill Committee

Yellowknife Guild Of Crafts

Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Status Of Proposal On Methods Of Transporting Housing Materials

Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Consideration Given For Years Of Occupancy Of GNWT Staff House At Time Of Sale

Policy On Shipping Freight By Ntcl North Of Norman Wells

Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Listing Of GNWT Employees Granted Early Retirement

Reduction In The Prices Of Damaged GNWT Staff Housing

Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Effect Of GNWT Houses Lost Through Resale

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Bill 20: Loan Authorization Act, 1993-94

Bill 18:

An Act To Amend The Public Printing Act

Bill 19:

An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act

Bill 17: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1993-94

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 20: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Mr. James Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Hon. Rebecca Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Hon. Richard Nerysoo , Mr. Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. John Todd , Mr. Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 725

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. Before we get into the orders of the day, I have a message from the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, the Commissioner is wishing the Premier Nellie Cournoyea a very happy birthday.

---Applause

I think we all join the Commissioner in wishing Ms. Cournoyea all the best on her 39th birthday.

---Applause

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd .

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Minister's Statement 47-12(3): Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 725

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The mine safety bill committee was formed in December of 1991 to prepare a new mine safety bill and regulations. At that time, the unions representing the vast majority of unionized mine workers in the Northwest Territories refused to join the committee because they objected to the manner in which the committee was structured.

The committee is comprised of two representatives from mine management, one representative of employees from a non-union mine and one representative from the Union of Northern Workers who represents a small number of mine employees.

Despite the absence of organized workers, the committee has continued with its work and has been developing a new mine safety bill and regulations for close to one year.

To date, the committee has completed the drafting instructions for the new bill and has made substantial headway on the regulations that will accompany this legislation.

While the work of the committee has been admirable, this process does not address the views of all of the stakeholders concerned with mine safety in the Northwest Territories. The absence of organized workers in this process means that the views of a significant and important sector of the mining industry in the Northwest Territories are not being considered.

Like previous Ministers of Safety and Public Services, I have tried to explore ways that organized labour could be accommodated within the existing review process as a full and willing participant.

After a great deal of discussion with the president of the Northwest Territories Federation of Labour, an accommodation has been reached that will allow organized labour to participate in the development of this important legislation.

This agreement would allow the Northwest Territories Federation of Labour to nominate persons from organized labour to sit on the committee, the number to be equivalent to the membership of the committee as currently structured. The Federation of Labour would also be given the opportunity to review the proposed new act and the work done on the regulations to date and offer suggestions on how it can be improved.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to commend the president and executive of the Northwest Territories federation of labour for their efforts in bringing organized labour back to the table to review this important piece of legislation.

It is important to ensure, at the conclusion of this process, we have a good piece of legislation which ensures the safety of all mine workers in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 47-12(3): Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 725

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis .

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Yellowknife Guild Of Crafts

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 725

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I note we failed to mark the passage of your birthday last week, Mr. Speaker. Of a similar vintage to yourself, Mr. Speaker, is an institution in this city called the Yellowknife guild of crafts. It was founded in 1946. Ruth Stanton was the first president. The first secretary was Mrs. Anderson-Thomson. The guild, in those days, was established because people were very interested in doing creative things with their hands in a place which, at that time, was very isolated. People lived under conditions which were much different than what they are today.

Some people may be amused by the idea of people sitting down doing handicrafts for long hours on those winter nights. However, one of the things which happened with that guild, Mr. Speaker, which many people do not know of, is that Dr. Stanton on all of his travels throughout the Mackenzie Valley and up to the Delta, was instrumental in bringing the art work of many aboriginal

people to the attention of Yellowknife and the rest of Canada.

Mr. Speaker, this has been of interest to me. This is still something which is seen as elitist, something that is somehow irrelevant to the Northwest Territories because it serves only the interests of urban people who are bored and have nothing to do. Many of us do not see it that way. We have seen all kinds of very interesting things done there and I will be tabling a letter from that guild as they are very concerned about the future of this institution which has been around, Mr. Speaker, for about the same length of time as you have.

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Yellowknife Guild Of Crafts

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 726

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk .

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Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Personnel . The Minister should be aware that the high school in Coral Harbour will be proceeding with grade extensions to allow grade 11 students to remain in their home community. This expansion will likely require the addition of two more teachers. Many people in the community have raised concerns regarding the inadequate availability of government staff housing. They are wondering what arrangements are going to be made for housing these new teachers.

Frankly, this is a problem which seems to occur every time program expansion or decentralization has been discussed in eastern Arctic communities. It has remained one of the biggest barriers to the establishment of the government infrastructure. Can the Minister of Personnel tell the House what he is planning to do to address the chronic shortage of housing for government employees, especially teachers, during the 1993-94 fiscal year?

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Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I do not have the information available right now on the plans regarding the implications and requirements for the class extensions in that particular community. I will have to get back to the Member on that.

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Return To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk .

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Supplementary To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Like many other honourable Members, I would have no trouble supporting the principle that the GNWT should get out of the business of being a landlord for its staff. However, I cannot see moving quickly toward policy equalization when there are such great inadequacies of availability and condition of housing, which presently exist in our communities. Can the Minister of Personnel explain how his new staff housing strategy is going to deal with the critical shortage of staff housing and the poor conditions of old staff houses which still exist?

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Supplementary To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the inadequate number of staff houses available to government employees has been in existence for many years, even during the years when there was a very healthy accumulated surplus enjoyed by this government. Even as far back as 1987 or 1988, we had established that we needed, for instance in the Baffin alone, a few hundred staff houses just to catch up to present needs.

Over the years, the government has been trying to build sufficient units so staff could be reasonably housed within the communities where they are employed. There is a question as to how this staff housing policy addresses the present predicament of government. The fact is, we have been unable to make the commitment to provide sufficient money to increase the total allocation of staff houses to what is required.

The staff housing strategy suggests, in the interest of the fiscal situation of the government at this time, we have to take a position that will make it possible for private developers to have some confidence in developing accommodation for people in the private market, as well as government employees who wish to rent from the private market, or to buy houses.

The government has said, through the staff housing strategy, we will make it attractive for people to buy their own houses. This will, in many cases, trigger an interest from the private market to become competitive in building units where they can lease to people at a competitive or even lower rate than what government is prepared to rent at. Also, if there are government guarantees for people to buy back their houses, it will give private developers a certain comfort in building units as they know there is going to be a market. Because of this, the private market will begin to develop.

It is taking a different approach to addressing the problem we have. We do not have enough houses for staff, government employees, ordinary citizens and people of the Northwest Territories. Part of our strategy has been to suggest by taking the approach we do, we will make more units available for more people, staff and other residents of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk .

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Supplementary To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Personnel will then be able to write to the community education councils and inform them that the guarantees are available to build such houses and the teachers can be properly housed. The community education councils can then inform the public, especially the business sector, to proceed with the process of loan guarantees to build houses for government staff. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 726

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, we can, if we have not done it already, communicate with the community. I know it is standard practice, when class grade extensions are discussed in communities, to give some assurances that sufficient money, classroom space and accommodations are available. Again, I do not know the details of it. Those plans will not go ahead unless there is some assurance that accommodation will be made available. That can be done by the government committing itself to making sure units are built to provide and meet the requirements.

More often, now, we are interested in accepting proposals from community corporations or private developers. We give them a guaranteed lease which will enable them to build the units and then lease to us. Some communication such as that can take place if it has not already been done in the course of discussions with the divisional board. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. This is your last supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk .

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Supplementary To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is the Minister making a commitment that he will be accepting proposals from the private sector from Coral Harbour, who want to build staff housing for the government?

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Supplementary To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, where there is an opportunity for the government not to commit capital money and where there is a good reasonable proposal, either from a broad community-based corporation or private developers, as long as there is no objection from the community itself, the government is very interested in receiving proposals of that nature.

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Further Return To Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Question 409-12(3): Housing Shortage For Teachers In 1993-94 Fiscal Year

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question 410-12(3): Status Of Proposal On Methods Of Transporting Housing Materials

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. A few days ago I asked the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation about the methods of transportation for housing materials. In one of the Minister's responses, he stated he is in the process of preparing a decision paper for Cabinet to consider barge companies having the opportunity to carry cargo, and whether we can ship materials in the Inuvik region by truck. Can the Minister please advise when he is proposing to deal with this issue in Cabinet?

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Question 410-12(3): Status Of Proposal On Methods Of Transporting Housing Materials

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Minister.

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Return To Question 410-12(3): Status Of Proposal On Methods Of Transporting Housing Materials

Question 410-12(3): Status Of Proposal On Methods Of Transporting Housing Materials

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will attempt to get this on the Cabinet's agenda prior to the fall session. Thank you.

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Return To Question 410-12(3): Status Of Proposal On Methods Of Transporting Housing Materials

Question 410-12(3): Status Of Proposal On Methods Of Transporting Housing Materials

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Personnel . I am interested in finding out about the manner in which decisions are made for granting education leave. Will the Minister confirm that far fewer GNWT employees were able to take education leave this year in comparison to previous years? Thank you.

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Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Minister of Personnel , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, short of scrambling to find the information, I will issue it to the Member, if the statistics show that, I will be able to confirm it. If they do not show it, then I will not be able to.

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Return To Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I am not in possession of any statistics, this is why I am asking the Minister the question. Will the Minister determine to find out whether fewer employees were granted educational leave this year than previous years? If he does not know, would he take the question as notice? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Supplementary To Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Yes, I can do that.

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Supplementary To Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Question 411-12(3): Decision Process For Granting Education Leave

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk .

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Question 412-12(3): Consideration Given For Years Of Occupancy Of GNWT Staff House At Time Of Sale

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to add something to the question Mr. Arvaluk raised. This question is for the Minister of Personnel regarding housing. We are aware that housing, which is used by GNWT staff, was built in the early 1960s. Many aboriginal people have lived in the same units for 20 years. They have been paying for their units. If an employee wants to buy a unit which he or she has lived in for many years, would there be a decrease in the amount of the house? Thank you.

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Question 412-12(3): Consideration Given For Years Of Occupancy Of GNWT Staff House At Time Of Sale

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 727

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Minister of Personnel .

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Return To Question 412-12(3): Consideration Given For Years Of Occupancy Of GNWT Staff House At Time Of Sale

Question 412-12(3): Consideration Given For Years Of Occupancy Of GNWT Staff House At Time Of Sale

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Member asked if the staff housing strategy, which offers to sell units to government employees, presently considers the years of occupancy by a particular tenant and, in particular, the aboriginal tenant of those units, if this is going to be considered in deciding on the sale of such a unit to those employees. The present staff housing strategy does not take this factor into account.

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Return To Question 412-12(3): Consideration Given For Years Of Occupancy Of GNWT Staff House At Time Of Sale

Question 412-12(3): Consideration Given For Years Of Occupancy Of GNWT Staff House At Time Of Sale

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question 413-12(3): Policy On Shipping Freight By Ntcl North Of Norman Wells

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Transportation . I understand there is a policy which requires this government to ship their freight by Northern Transportation Company Limited barges to any place north of Norman Wells. Can the Minister provide us with a brief explanation of this policy?

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Question 413-12(3): Policy On Shipping Freight By Ntcl North Of Norman Wells

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Question 413-12(3): Policy On Shipping Freight By Ntcl North Of Norman Wells

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak specific to the policy. I am not aware of it. It is my understanding there is somewhat of a history involved where the GNWT had determined as part of their policy that they would support the NTCL operations. With specifics to Norman Wells, I am not in a position today to answer that question. I will take it as notice.

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Question 413-12(3): Policy On Shipping Freight By Ntcl North Of Norman Wells

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask some further questions to the Minister of Personnel regarding the matter of staff housing shortages in remote communities such as Coral Harbour. Mr. Speaker, I understand that the government's new staff housing policy will encourage employees in communities such as Coral Harbour to purchase their staff housing units. Mr.

Speaker, given that there is, and he has just acknowledged it, a historical shortage of staff housing units in those remote communities, and given that employees who buy these rare staff houses might retire from employment or might sell the house to the private sector, how is the government going to preserve the short supply of staff housing already in place if they are allowing those houses to come out of the pool of scarce houses now available, by allowing employees to buy them and then retire or sell them to the private sector?

How is that going to improve the staff housing shortage which my colleagues have just described with their questions? Thank you.

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Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Minister of Personnel .

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Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, one of the elements of the staff housing strategy is to increase the rent which employees pay in all communities to a level where it would be more realistic and equal to what is provided at market rates in Yellowknife. Once that starts to happen, I believe community corporations and private developers will find ways in which they can offer to build staff houses at community levels and simply lease directly to, not only government employees, but other people who require houses.

The sale of staff houses makes it financially more attractive for government employees who want yet another alternative to renting. We have offered to sell the government units to tenants who presently occupy them and assure tenants, if they cannot sell to someone else in the private market, we will buy the unit back.

We do not have as much money available to us to provide not only staff housing, but also public housing and home ownership units. We did not have much money last year and we do not have much money this year. There is no certainty that the money we now have is secure because of the fiscal situation of the federal government. With the federal election, it may improve or it may get worse. This strategy is trying to address the situation we find in the communities where we need other elements and simply more government money being allocated to provide staff housing.

We need to encourage private developers and community corporations to move into the housing market, and we need to attract tenants to become private home owners as well. We believe, by making it more attractive in those different areas, we will be able, under the present fiscal situation, to at least maintain the situation as we should. Thank you.

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Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, the Minister may know that it has been extremely difficult for private entrepreneurs and development corporations in the Baffin region to finance staff housing projects with the banks or with other financial institutions, even with the guarantee of long-term government leases. Now the Minister is saying that without that government guarantee of long-term leases, the Minister believes the private sector will step in and finance, take that risk, and build houses to rent directly to tenants.

Has the Department of Personnel taken the time to consult with established contractors or native development corporations in the Baffin region to see whether any of those people would be prepared to take the risk of building houses on speculation for direct rental to government employees without the security of a long-term government lease?

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Supplementary To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 728

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the fact is the

different agencies which require houses, such as the divisional boards and hospital boards, will all be very interested in entering into long-term leases. There is no suggestion that we are discouraging that at all. I cannot say for certain that we have had extensive discussions with private developers as to whether these moves we are making to get out of staff housing and make it more realistic in terms of the rents which are paid, and making some moves towards home ownership more realistic, are going to be sufficient to meet the private developers' needs in the Baffin.

I know that the Department of Personnel, alone, is not equipped to have those discussions. It would be done in consultation with the Department of Public Works. Because of the transition of this plan next year, it will also be done in consultation with the Housing Corporation. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 729

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 729

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can inform the honourable Minister that I have approached established contractors in the Baffin region. I have been told that not only has the government not asked them about this proposition, but if the government did take the trouble to ask them whether they would be interested in this proposition of building houses for staff, they would be seriously questioning taking that kind of risk.

Since the Minister speculates that the divisional board of education, the health board and like agencies would be prepared to enter into these long-term arrangements so developers would have the sort of financial security required to invest in staff housing in such a high risk, high cost environment as the eastern Arctic. Has the Minister and the department consulted with the Baffin health board or the Baffin divisional board of education about providing the kind of lease guarantees to the private sector in that region so that housing could be constructed in communities such as Arctic Bay?

Have those consultations taken place with those regional boards? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 729

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 729

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the government has, for many years, at least 15 years, been postering outside the ropes, so to speak, to finally grapple with this beast which is the fact that there are vast inequities that exist in the way we treat government employees across the territories. We have no level playing field as far as what rents are charged, the conditions of houses, and the utility rates. There have been studies done, and the Special Committee on Housing touched on it.

There have been task force reports which all say the same thing, the government should get out and do something about the inadequate levels of rent which have been charged. We finally decided to do something about it in January and it is going to be difficult. There are going to be a thousand little detailed questions and inadequacies which surface. I would suggest most agencies and most people would prefer to leave well enough alone, if you could call it that. I personally feel there are more injustices present in leaving the situation the way it is, than there are in existence in the strategy we have launched.

We are committed to carrying out the strategy. It is going to cause hardship for divisional boards. They are going to be pummelled by their employees. Employees are going to threaten to leave, they are going to point out their rental increase. Some of them are going to complain about the lack of notice and many other things. There is going to be some uncertainty about whether teachers will leave en masse and also if professionals will leave en masse. In my view, people will stay. I think they will listen to our debate in this Legislature and will take into account the points which are made. It is up to us in this Legislature to carry on a rational debate about what it is we are trying to do.

As I said earlier, we have people in the Northwest Territories who number up to 15 people in two bedroom houses. We have people who number up to 20 in three bedroom houses. We have houses which have doors with no doorknobs on them. We have houses which have no existing windows. We have atrocious housing conditions in existence now. In balancing that, the argument is, there is this potential saving if we pull out the strategy of up to perhaps $5 million which is now being allocated for the exclusive benefit and use of 1,800 government employees, 1,800 citizens of the Northwest Territories.

We have 57,000 people in the Northwest Territories. Is this a fair way to use increasingly scarce resources?

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 729

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Point of order, Mr. Patterson .

Point Of Order

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 729

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, the honourable Minister's answer is so long that I am in danger of forgetting the question I asked.

---Applause

I wonder if the Minister could answer. He is making a wonderful speech, very eloquent. I wonder if the honourable Minister could be requested to answer the question. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 729

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

In this particular case, I think I was quite lenient with Mr. Patterson , allowing him quite a long

preamble to his question and quite lenient to the Minister in allowing him quite a long response. The rules clearly state that both the question and the response should be quite short. I would ask all Members to try to live within the intention of those rules. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 729

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

In my long

preamble, I indicated that the strategy has been many years in the making. People know we are going to get out of staff housing, it has been suggested numerous times over the years. We have introduced market rents in three of the major communities of the Northwest Territories. We have introduced utility user-pay for a number of years. I think divisional boards and health boards are aware that this strategy was inevitable. Specifically, we did not go to the divisional boards or health boards to ask

their opinion about whether we should do this. The government decided it was time to do it. The financial situation of the government compelled us to do it. The number of years we have left before the election also made it even more urgent to introduce this at the time we did. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not going to ask for the same

preamble as the Minister's reply because I know other Members may have questions. Mr. Speaker, I think the honourable Minister has said we have not consulted with the private sector, we have not consulted with the regional boards, but we expect that somehow they will put up staff housing units to meet this shortage.

I would like to ask the honourable Minister, given that it really takes guarantees to the health and education boards that the government will back them up with long-term financial commitments rather than year to year funding if they are to make long-term lease commitments, would it not be appropriate to take the necessary time to establish regimes with the regional boards so that these commitments and guarantees can be worked out so that in communities such as Coral Harbour and Arctic Bay plans can be undertaken to meet the staff housing shortage before the pressures from the sale of housing to the private sector and from the retirement of employees worsen an already bad situation?

Would it not be better to take the time to do the homework so a strategy can be in place to have the private sector build houses before the rug is pulled out from under the boards and teachers in the remote communities? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the strategy is intended to try to get the government out of staff housing. It is also intended to make it possible for people to get into home ownership by making staff houses available for purchase. We have also proposed to increase the revenue which this government makes by increasing the rents. Not only does it increase the revenue which this government makes from tenants by reducing the public liability in this area, but we believe it also moves towards making it more and more realistic. Perhaps not all developers would agree. This is all part of the entrepreneurial spirit.

There is always someone somewhere who is willing and able to find ways to take advantage of new opportunities. Right now there are absolutely no opportunities, particularly in the Arctic communities, for any developers to feel they can put some of their money into developing houses and making them available for rent. We think the strategy begins to do this. Even if the fiscal condition of the government should improve dramatically to where it was back in the early and mid-eighties, there is no reason to believe we would address this situation any better.

The strategy tries to address it by taking a many multi-faceted approach to addressing this problem, by

making input from the private developers in the communities more realistic. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Question 414-12(3): Staff Housing Shortage In Remote Communities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 415-12(3): Listing Of GNWT Employees Granted Early Retirement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Government Leader . First of all, I would like to wish her a happy birthday.

---Applause

We will try to make it happy for you. Mr. Speaker, on September 10 of last year, Mr. Todd , when he was on our side of the House, asked the Premier to provide a listing of all employees at the DM and ADM level who over the last five years, had been given early retirement. The Premier indicated she would do so. As a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Todd asked to outline all the financial obligations associated with any special arrangements for these retiring staff.

At the time, she did indicate the information would be provided, providing there were no other legal obligations that would prevent her from doing this. However, Mr. Speaker, when I went through Hansard from September onward, I found no information on the public record. In reviewing the records to see if any documents were tabled regarding this requested information, there has been none to date. Will the Government Leader provide this House with a full listing of employees at the DM and ADM level who, over the last five years, have been given early retirement? Thank you.

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Question 415-12(3): Listing Of GNWT Employees Granted Early Retirement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Question 415-12(3): Listing Of GNWT Employees Granted Early Retirement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that the honourable Member is asking for some information. I would like to apologize that the information I promised to bring forward has not been provided. I thought we had done it. However, I will take her question as notice and provide the information. Thank you.

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Question 415-12(3): Listing Of GNWT Employees Granted Early Retirement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat .

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Question 416-12(3): Reduction In The Prices Of Damaged GNWT Staff Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Personnel . Did I understand correctly, were you saying that some public housing does not even have doorknobs or windows? If that is the case, would that be deducted from the mortgage they would be paying if they decided to purchase the staff house? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 416-12(3): Reduction In The Prices Of Damaged GNWT Staff Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Minister of Personnel .

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Return To Question 416-12(3): Reduction In The Prices Of Damaged GNWT Staff Housing

Question 416-12(3): Reduction In The Prices Of Damaged GNWT Staff Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 730

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, the government employees who are presently staying in the occupied government housing are given the opportunity to purchase the dwelling. If there are any damages or repairs needed in the dwelling they are in now, the price would be lower than the market price. If the people occupying the dwellings are interested in purchasing the house, they can sit

down with the government and make an offer. The government will arrange to do an appraisal on the house and establish the market price for the house. The occupants can also be part of the appraisal. The cost of the house is negotiable according to the condition of the house. The Member who asked me the question regarding the market price of the house is correct in asking if there is damage in the dwelling, it could be repaired before resale. He is correct.

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Question 416-12(3): Reduction In The Prices Of Damaged GNWT Staff Housing

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford .

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Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

My question is in regard to a Minister's statement, from the Minister of Safety and Public Services , delivered to us earlier today. I am confused on the number of people who are going to be on that committee.

One of the paragraphs say, "The agreement will allow the Northwest Territories Federation of Labour to nominate persons from organized labour, the number to be equivalent to the membership of the committee as currently structured." When I counted the number on the front page, there are two representatives from mine management, one from employees of non-union mines and one representative from the Union of Northern Workers. That comes out to four people plus the chairman. What would be the composition of this new board?

Will there be, in fact, four union representatives to sit, in addition to those persons on there?

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Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The discussions and negotiations were delicate enough to get the organized labour to the table. I am pleased to say we were successful, with the support of the president of the Federation of Labour, in achieving that. It is our intention, between the parties involved, to negotiate an appropriate structure of the board and to ensure equal representation between organized and unionized workers and the mine management. At this time, I am anticipating four and four, three and three, but there has been no decisions made at this time.

The current board has one unionized worker for the UNW, one non-unionized worker from Lupin, one mine manager is currently on it and there is another one who has to be appointed. I am hoping to accomplish, by discussing it with the different parties, some kind of compromise that will satisfy all parties and move this Mine Safety Act forward.

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Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford .

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Supplementary To Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I probably should have went on with a longer

preamble and congratulate the Minister for breaking this log jam that two previous Ministers were not able to do, myself included, Mr. Speaker. He is to be commended for taking that gigantic step. However, it does state here that the number be equivalent to the membership of the committee currently structured. I thought it was already set that there would be four or more people on there. It still is not clear yet, Mr. Speaker, whether there is going to be four new union representatives, plus the existing one. I would like to have that clarified for constituents' interest, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I made a clear commitment to organized labour that they will have a balance of unionized workers and others on that committee.

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Further Return To Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Question 417-12(3): Composition Of Mine Safety Bill Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Personnel . Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Personnel knows that one of the affirmative action priorities for this government is to increase the number of women working in non-traditional occupations. I am aware there has been some progress made by the previous and current Ministers of Education, Culture and Employment Programs in enhancing women in trades, training and apprenticeship programs.

However, I am concerned about the lack of progress we seem to be making as a government in terms of hiring women into all non-traditional occupations whether they are management positions or trades oriented jobs. Can the Minister of Personnel indicate whether his department has evaluated areas where more progress could be made in terms of women working for this government in non-traditional occupations? Thank you.

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Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I am not aware that we have done that work.

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Return To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation Done On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, sometimes with respect to trying to acquire that information, one of the main factors which prevent women from entering into non-traditional trades or occupations is the attitude of predominantly male senior management within our public service. Will the Minister take the responsibility to determine whether he can have this evaluation done in order to determine the amount of women attempting to enter non-traditional occupational trades programs? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation Done On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 731

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I know we work very carefully with the Department of Personnel. The honourable Member is correct in saying that women in trades fall very short of the objectives that have been set in the past. It has been two years since the document "Women in trades - a needs assessment" was completed. The document was developed by women in trades steering committee which included a representative from the Department of Personnel, the Equal Employment Directorate, the Department of Education, the Women's Directorate, Arctic College and the Department of Public Works.

Mr. Speaker, based on the findings and conclusions of the report, nine recommendations have been structured to identify the responsibilities and the specific action required. Mr. Speaker, as Members should know, there is a special advisor to the Government Leader , Bertha Norwegian, who proposes to do a follow-up with the GNWT departments as mentioned to determine what actions have and have not been taken. This responsibility has been given to the government's special advisor on women's issues.

Upon completion of the follow-up, a women and trades steering committee will be struck and one of the main objectives of the committee will be to outline implementation strategies based on the recommendations and, further, to identify what resources and time frames are required for the implementation. Mr. Speaker, this responsibility has been given to the special advisor so we can take an overall governmental approach, rather than a departmental one. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation Done On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, when does the Government Leader anticipate this work would be complete? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation Done On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I believe the special advisor has begun to undertake the work now and hopefully by the summer it should be complete and we will have an evaluation to give those recommendations some weight within the government. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation Done On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Government Leader make a commitment to provide to this House the report and findings of the evaluation which she has requested her special advisor complete? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation Done On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I believe it is anticipated that the findings of the special advisor would not be another study, but something to put together a time frame on how we can implement those recommendations which have already been put forward. I will provide that report. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Question 418-12(3): Evaluation On Women Working In Non-traditional Occupations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 419-12(3): Effect Of GNWT Houses Lost Through Resale

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I have a simple question for the Minister of Personnel . I am going to try it again. Employees have been offered the chance to buy staff housing in level II and III communities. What will the government do to replace a staff house needed for a teacher, if the employee buys the staff house and retires, or if an employee buys the staff house and sells it to the private sector. In both cases the staff house would no longer be available for other government employees. What will the government do if it loses houses through retirement or sales to the private sector? Thank you.

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Question 419-12(3): Effect Of GNWT Houses Lost Through Resale

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Minister of Personnel .

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Return To Question 419-12(3): Effect Of GNWT Houses Lost Through Resale

Question 419-12(3): Effect Of GNWT Houses Lost Through Resale

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 732

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

(Microphone not turned on)...It was just as well I did not turn the mike on.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, people who live in communities, both the staff and people who are privately employed, need houses. That has been a general problem we have identified with previous government approaches. We tend to isolate the way we treat government employees from the way we treat other people who are in need of housing in the communities in the Northwest Territories. We treat the people who live in social housing somewhat different from the way we treat government employees.

It is true government staff housing will be made available to be sold to people at the community level. It is true some of them may not be sold back to the government and will no longer be available to government. Certainly the house will be meeting a need somewhere else. Perhaps a former staff house may be meeting a need for a family who is just leaving the public service, who is retiring and was in dire need of a house to begin with. I think there is something justifiable in a situation such as that.

Of course, there is a concern that if out of a number of available staff houses, two should be sold to the tenants only to find that the tenants leave the employ of government and no longer wish to sell their units back to government. We have taken that into account. We think it alleviates the pressures on social housing and it begins to move people towards the creation of a private housing market. Yes, we have thought of it. It is not a negative concern. We think it is a development which will be in line with the overall strategy.

We have to try to meet the overall housing needs of the community, not just government staff housing. Yet, at the same time, government will be prepared to make sure staff have an adequate number of units available to them, but not by assuming it will only be the government which is able to cough up the capital money and the money necessary to make sure that sufficient units are available to them for rent.

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Return To Question 419-12(3): Effect Of GNWT Houses Lost Through Resale

Question 419-12(3): Effect Of GNWT Houses Lost Through Resale

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 733

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The time allotted for oral questions has expired. Item 6, written questions. There is an instruction booklet, Mr. Patterson , on how to read the clock. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Morin .

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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 77-12(3), Government Services and Public Works contracts negotiated in 1992 and 1993. Thank you.

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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Mr. Lewis .

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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to return to item 12, tabling of documents.

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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Lewis .

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Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table Tabled Document 78-12(3), a letter addressed to the Honourable Don Morin , Minister of Government Services and Public Works from Autumn Downey, the president of the Yellowknife Guild of Crafts which has 150 members. All these artists are not rich people, Mr. Speaker. The letter is in regard to the imminent termination of their lease agreement and request for information and assistance in finding alternative accommodation for the guild.

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Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Antoine .

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Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Tabled Document 80-12(3), is a letter from the Deh Cho Tribal Council to Honourable Kim Campbell.

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Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Do you have another document, Mr. Antoine ?

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Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Yes. Tabled document 81-12(3), are some letters written from children in kindergarten to grade three from Nahanni Butte. They did them by themselves on the computers and there are some typos. I will read a few. One says, "Dear Jim, can you make the water better to drink to make juice? Can you make a well for us? Our water is not good because it is yellow and it stinks." This is from Dean Betsaka. I have a number of letters like this which I would like to table. Thank you.

---Applause

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Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Item 12, tabling of documents. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I would like to table Tabled Document 82-12(3), dated February 19, on the front page of Press Independent, a headline "Sexual Assault of Inmates in Hay River Youth Centre." Thank you.

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Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 733

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 12, tabling of documents. That concludes tabling of documents. We will go back to item 15, motions. Motion 18-12(3). Mr. Koe .

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 733

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi.

WHEREAS the federal government has recently announced a ten per cent reduction in grants and contributions programs;

AND

WHEREAS the federal government has informed the Government of the Northwest Territories that they intend to apply the ten per cent reduction to the Canada-Northwest Territories agreement for French and aboriginal languages;

AND

WHEREAS this would mean a reduction of about one million dollars next year in contributions to language services and programs in the Northwest Territories;

AND

WHEREAS the three year agreement which was entered into in good faith with the federal government is now being unilaterally eroded;

AND

WHEREAS the proposed cuts will have an immediate negative impact on both aboriginal languages programs and the provision of French language services in the Northwest Territories;

AND

WHEREAS the procedure used to advise the Government of the Northwest Territories of the cuts demonstrates a certain disregard for the terms and spirit of the agreement;

AND

WHEREAS the proposed cuts will mean a delay in initiating approved projects funded under the agreement;

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 734

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear.

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 734

Fred Koe

Inuvik

AND FURTHER, that this Legislative Assembly supports the efforts of the Premier and the Government of the Northwest Territories in reinstating the full level of funding committed under the Canada-Northwest Territories agreement;

---Applause

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 734

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Koe . The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Koe .

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 734

Fred Koe

Inuvik

I would like to speak to this motion. My concerns are fairly self-explanatory and have been stated many times and by many Members in many different ways in this House.

(Translation) We are all aware of the uniqueness of the Northwest Territories with respect to its official languages. We are also aware of the importance of promoting and protecting our language and heritage. Federal funding in support of these official languages is critical. (Translation ends)

We recognize the importance of the official status given to aboriginal languages of the Northwest Territories. We know we have a special obligation to preserve them. The federal government also has a legal responsibility and constitutional obligation to protect aboriginal rights of which aboriginal languages are fundamental.

Aboriginal languages are endangered. If these languages disappear there is nowhere else in the world where our youth will be able to learn the language again. The only place to preserve our aboriginal languages is here and now. We need support in this endeavour.

---Applause

We, in the north, have also been committed to upholding the official status of the French language. We recognize the importance of a united Canada and have consistently demonstrated this commitment in the provision of French language programs and services. We require the continued support of the federal government in our efforts to respect and uphold the official language provisions of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is a critical time in Canada's history. We are facing some very difficult issues with respect to unity. It is the wrong time to reduce support to the country's official languages.

I am deeply disturbed by the recent announcement regarding the ten per cent reduction to language funding from the federal government. I am troubled by a number of aspects of this situation. The federal government's method of determining the amount of the cuts seems arbitrary. The manner in which the federal government chose to inform the Northwest Territories of its decision disregards the good faith in which we entered into the agreement. The timing of the announcement makes it very difficult for us to make adjustments to our programs and services.

This may create an unnecessary delay in approving the government's 1993-94 budget. The reductions will have a far reaching impact on the language and cultural programs and services of the Government of the Northwest Territories. An enormous additional effort will be required to rework allocations and proposals to the various departments to support their programs.

(Translation) I can appreciate the federal government's need to make tough economic decisions but I do not agree with the method used in this case. While across the board reductions may be the easiest way to reduce expenditures, it is seldom the most effective approach. (Translation ends)

If the federal government chooses to deal with their own expenditure reductions in this arbitrary fashion, that is fine. To simply pass it on is unacceptable. The manner in which the federal government chose to inform this government of its decision shows a total disregard for the spirit and intent of the funding agreement. The Government of the Northwest Territories entered into this agreement in good faith. We were counting on the federal government to uphold its end of the bargain. We believed that in signing this agreement the federal government demonstrated an understanding of our needs and our unique situation. We were obviously wrong.

It may well have been possible to negotiate a mutually acceptable solution, however the federal government has chosen to act unilaterally. I cannot understand this conduct.

The timing of the announcement will cause a significant delay in initiating approved or proposed projects. The agreed to contributions under this agreement are distributed across the entire government and territories.

It is obvious that a great deal of hard work was devoted to allocating these resources. If the federal government is not persuaded to reverse its decision, all of this work will have to be reworked.

A ten per cent reduction means approximately $1 million dollars which is a very significant amount of funding. If the federal government fails to reconsider this decision, many people in the Northwest Territories will suffer the consequences.

The programs developed with the Canada-Northwest Territories agreement funding are wide-ranging. Successful achievements can be found in school, community, linguistic, cultural and media-oriented programs. The funding provided under this agreement supports a wide range of diverse projects.

For instance, these funds have supported the delivery of translation and

interpretation services. We depend on these services each and every day we sit in this Assembly. All departments rely on them in order to communicate with people in smaller communities across the territories.

These funds support communities in their efforts to maintain and revitalize aboriginal languages. Support has been provided through this agreement to aboriginal language programming on radio and television.

Programs have been developed to provide training for health interpreters and court interpreters.

Museum and heritage education programs have been developed and delivered to a wide range of citizens in the territories.

(Translation) Literacy awareness campaigns have been created to carry important messages to our youth. Our citizens have received public services in their own native languages. (Translation ends)

These programs and services are essential to the well-being of the citizens of the north. They are now being jeopardized.

The Government of the Northwest Territories has used federal contributions under this agreement wisely. An evaluation report, produced in 1991, concluded that, "The Government of the Northwest Territories acted judiciously in producing and implementing language training programs and in providing translation and

interpretation services in the aboriginal languages during the period of this agreement."

The evaluation report says the funding provided under this agreement contributed to the launching of a board policy and program process pertaining to aboriginal languages.

The Government of the Northwest Territories is in a position to save and strengthen our languages which are still strong. We are still in a position to revitalize those languages which are in danger. In order to be successful in accomplishing this, we need to keep our original objectives in sight, have sufficient funding and have the resources to try innovative solutions.

The authors of the evaluation report go on to say that in 20 years many of these languages could disappear. We cannot allow this to happen. Aboriginal languages in the Northwest Territories are still viable, however they are at risk. Experience with other indigenous languages around the world warns us we are at a critical point. The alternatives are clear, act now or lose our languages.

I encourage Members of this House to join me in supporting the Premier and the Government of the Northwest Territories in their efforts to reverse the proposed federal government cuts. I urge you to support this motion today. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 735

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Koe . Seconder of the motion, Mr. Arvaluk .

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 735

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be very brief as my colleague, Mr. Koe , has already articulated the points very well. I have seconded the motion because I am a long time advocate of the aboriginal languages for the purpose of preservation and promotion.

I could recount some of the aboriginal language promotions with the federal government during my term as ITC president when we initiated the language commission and the standardization of the syllabic writing system. The communication society, today called IBC, under my leadership came a long way with the support and leadership of the Government of the Northwest Territories and the other regional aboriginal organizations. We have become quite organized financially and in terms of management and promotion of our aboriginal languages.

However, it does not seem fair and right when we get the people excited about our own languages and culture in the small communities that the cuts have been made.

(Translation) I would also like to speak briefly in Inuktitut. We have worked with the aboriginal languages for many years. Just recently everything has been falling into place and with the ten per cent cut, although it is only ten per cent, we know it will add up. I wonder what else will be cut which will affect the Inuit and the Dene. Funding cuts will affect the educational system. It will be something else which will be affecting the Inuit and the Dene, the aboriginal people. We are asking for support for this motion to go ahead. Thank you.

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 735

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk . To the motion, Ms. Cournoyea .

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 735

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I welcome this motion at this time. As a government we were shocked that a grant of this type would have been cut in this time of the world of the European indigenous people.

Mr. Speaker, I believe a message has to be given about the importance of language, the language of the peoples. There is very little left in this world today that people can say, "This is mine. This is what I stand for and this is what I can do. This comes from my past and this is what I am today." That is the language. This is a fundamental, emotional and required type of inside requirement for a person to survive in the world today when everything else seems to be falling apart.

This is where, above everything else, you can aim to say, "This is where I come from." How we get that message across is going to take a concerted effort in this time because of the fundamental requirements that people have themselves, and the perceived requirements of what is more important by other people who are making the decisions on what we fund first.

I believe we have to work to get that message across. I know it will not be easy, but above all I think it is important to try to express why language is important. A person can only survive if they feel good about themselves. Language creates identity and it creates a feeling that someone is something and somebody. I do not believe anyone has found a way to express that in a way that it can be acknowledged by the people who are holding the purse string of this country.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate we have a big job to do and I appreciate the acknowledgement of this Legislative Assembly on the importance of this matter. Thank you.

---Applause

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 736

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

To the motion, Mr. Pudluk .

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 736

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In February, when we were discussing this issue about the proposed cut of ten per cent, I was very shocked. Ever since I became a Member in 1975 we have always used different languages in the Assembly. The way it is progressing, it is getting better. They will never stop using the different languages. The aboriginal and French languages, are going to lose some funding, it is obvious, so in our future we will have great difficulties. This agreement was toward the aboriginal and French languages. The federal government stated then that legislation must be written into French.

That is why the agreement became reality then. Before everything was completed with this agreement in place, we had to have

an act in place.

The federal government is not following this act and now they are cutting the funds again. They are destroying this agreement themselves. We do not want to be treated this way by the federal government. We just do not want to be played around with since we were here first, but now the federal government is saying this is how we are going to do this. Once we start using that act, they make cuts. It is very unfortunate for us to go through. We know the language act has to stay the same as this.

If the federal government keeps cutting our funding, the employment will keep going down in the north. We use different languages in the territories. If the federal government keeps cutting our funding for language programs, I am sure we will be facing difficulties in the future. For instance, an aboriginal person needs an interpreter in court. More aboriginal people within the communities are using their aboriginal languages within the work place.

Mr. Speaker, I wanted to make a brief statement. I would like to thank the Member who made the motion. The federal government has to be aware that the language programs within the north is one of the hardest things to deal with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 736

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

To the motion. Mr. Pudlat .

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 736

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know a cut of ten per cent sounds small, but it is a very large amount. I always use my native language in the House because it is my first language. I always use the interpreters. We should not be losing our own languages. When we are progressing forward, the Canadian government is proposing to cut again. They do not seem to remember their agreement. They should have consulted with us first before they proposed to make the cut. There are many different languages in the north. Aboriginal people's languages are very different from each other.

I would also like to thank the Member who made the motion. If they are going to keep doing that, it will be very bad for us in the north. I am in full support of the motion. I also want all of the Members to support the motion. Thank you.

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 736

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat . To the motion. Mr. Patterson .

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 736

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

I was very pleased when in August, 1991, the Honourable Robert Decotret along with the Honourable Titus Allooloo announced their agreement on a renewal of the Canada-NWT cooperation agreement for French and aboriginal languages in the Northwest Territories. That announcement took place in my constituency of Iqaluit and, in fact, the agreement was officially signed in August, 1991, in Pond Inlet.

Like the ones which proceeded it, in which Mr. Nerysoo took the lead for the first time for our government, he was the elected leader of the Executive Council, and that agreement was the result of very long, arduous negotiations on the part of Mr. Allooloo , his officials and representatives of the Francophone and aboriginal language communities in the Northwest Territories. Now it seems that the Minister of Finance has intervened with budget cuts to violate this agreement.

I would like to take a moment, Mr. Speaker, to recite as my honourable colleagues have mentioned that there is a very long history to this issue.

In 1984, this Legislature was threatened with a unilateral amendment to the NWT Act to officially recognize French as an official language. I vividly recall warning Mr. Munroe, who was then the Minister of Indian Affairs and representing the federal Cabinet on this matter, that if the unilateral amendment was forced on us without our consent and without corresponding attention being paid to the aboriginal languages it would amount of a declaration of war on our people. I will never forget Mr. Munroe's reply, which today is perhaps ominous. He said to me, "Dennis, we have more tanks than you." Mr.

Speaker, we sorted out that confrontation, reason prevailed and in the spirit of cooperation, but not without great difficulty, this Legislature agreed to official recognition of the French language in our own legislation. It was actually done when we sat in Fort Smith later that year, but in return for a solemn promise to support the aboriginal languages.

The promise of enhanced funds to assist in the development of the aboriginal languages made this decision easier to accept. We made that decision in good faith on the strength of what had been promised. The 11th Assembly went further and gave official status to the aboriginal languages. Mr. Speaker, as a Member of this Legislature at the time these agreements were devised and the legislative commitments were made, and as a participant along with Mr.

Nerysoo in the negotiations of the first cooperation agreement for French and aboriginal languages in the Northwest Territories, I want to say again, I feel betrayed by this cut. We must insist as a matter of fairness, honour and respect to history that these cuts be restored. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 737

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Patterson . To the motion. Mr. Dent .

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Motion 18-12(3): Legislative Assembly's Position On The Federal Government Cuts To The Canada-nwt Cooperation Agreement For French And Aboriginal Languages In The Nwt

Item 15: Motions

Page 737

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to add my sup