Debates of March 25th, 2004

This is page numbers 293 - 348 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was housing .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Ministerial Travel Reports

Community Initiatives Program

Value Of Aboriginal Language And Culture

Shortage Of Northern Hires At Diamond Mines

Support For The Land-based Economy

Service Levels At The Hay River Health Centre

The Roles And Responsibilities Of Regular Members Of The Legislative Assembly

Impact Of The Budget On Fort Simpson Community Status

Service Levels At The Hay River Health Centre

Current Financial Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Early Childhood Development

Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Community Status Of Fort Simpson

Legal Services Board Reporting Deficiencies

Status Of Major Bridge Initiatives

Extending The Early Childhood Development Program

Extending The Early Childhood Development Program

Written Question 10-15(3): Bill Of Intent To Achieve Provincehood

Return To Written Question 3-15(3): Territorial Business Incentive Policy Application

Tabled Document 12-15(3): NWT Lands And Resources Devolution Framework Agreement

Tabled Document 13-15(3): Annual Report Of The Conflict Of Interest Commissioner, March 22, 2004

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Recommendation For A Market Housing Initiative Survey

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Allen , Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya , Honourable Henry Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 293

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 18-15(3): Ministerial Travel Reports

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 293

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Speaker, as part of the Government of the Northwest Territories' commitment to open and transparent government, I am pleased to announce that the government will be preparing ministerial travel reports on a quarterly basis beginning with the first quarter of 2004.

---Applause

Ministerial travel reports will cover travel that Ministers undertake as part of their specific responsibilities as Cabinet Ministers and home travel. The reports will also include the following information: the date and purpose of travel, the destination and method of travel, the portfolio responsibility under which the travel occurred and the cost of the travel.

Mr. Speaker, as soon as the ministerial travel report for the 1st quarter of 2004 is finalized, we will provide this report to the Members of the Legislative Assembly and post the report on the Government on the Northwest Territories web site. The report will also be tabled in the Legislative Assembly during the May sitting.

Mr. Speaker, we believe the provision of this information in a timely and regular manner is another step in enhancing transparency and accountability in government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 18-15(3): Ministerial Travel Reports

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 293

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Zoe .

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Minister's Statement 19-15(3): Community Initiatives Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 293

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure today to update Members on the success of the community initiatives program.

The community initiatives program, which was established in spring 2003, exists to support non-tax-based communities to develop programs that address community priorities in the areas of families and youth, healthy lifestyles and safety education. The program was established to respond to the recommendations of the Special Joint Committee on Non-Tax-Based Community Affairs during the 14th Legislative Assembly.

The program makes funding available to communities to develop recreation programs and facilities, establish youth centres, or increase access to these programs for special needs groups such as seniors or people with disabilities. It encourages communities to build partnerships by giving higher priority to projects that lever funding from other sources.

Mr. Speaker, community proposals are rated in accordance with criteria set out in the contribution policy. Priority is given to projects which promote active living, which establish a new program in the community and which include matching funding from community governments in other sources. Proposals are reviewed to ensure they have a good chance of success. Communities can use this funding for new initiatives or to top up funding from other sources. In-kind services are considered as part of a community's contribution to a project.

There are some limitations on this funding. The total contribution to any community cannot exceed $100,000 in a fiscal year, and no project can receive more than $200,000 in total funding. Only one project will be funded in a community per year.

Mr. Speaker, my department officials work closely with communities to monitor the progress of each funded project. If a community is unable to spend its funding, or it there is funding uncommitted by October of each fiscal year, the budget is reassigned to another community or region to ensure that program funds are maximized.

For the new fiscal year, communities have also been advised that priority will be given to projects that were begun but not completed in 2003-2004, and to projects that were approved in 2003-04 but not started due to circumstances beyond community control, such as missing barge shipments.

I am pleased to report that under this program, 22 communities received funding in 2003-04 for a wide range of projects. Projects such as the Hay River Reserve's walking trails, Wrigley's outdoor skating rink and multipurpose court and Fort Good Hope's campsite development for their summer day program have become a reality as a result of the community initiatives program. Other communities have built baseball diamonds, playgrounds and golf courses. Some have improved above ground pool programs and others have begun developing youth centres. Some of these projects are multi-year projects, which will continue in the new fiscal year.

Mr. Speaker, the community initiatives program have allowed Municipal and Community Affairs to support our

smaller communities in order to address their priorities in the areas of physical activity and healthy living. I believe that these types of projects will support residents of all ages to improve their personal health and the well being of our communities. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 19-15(3): Community Initiatives Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 294

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Yakeleya .

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Value Of Aboriginal Language And Culture

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 294

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment made a statement in recognition of Aboriginal Languages Month. He spoke about the valued role of language in maintaining our culture and the importance for a successful life, a belief we both share. He spoke about the value of aboriginal language identity and giving a strong foundation for self-determination and self-government.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister assured the residents of the Northwest Territories that he was committed to the ongoing support of aboriginal languages in our communities. What I would like to speak about today is the need for government to continue to support and strengthen initiatives like the language nest programs.

Language nest programs provide opportunities for young children to spend time with their elders where they are exposed to aboriginal language through storytelling and at times when the mind is most ready to learn the language. Through this program, young kids gain a strong foundation in aboriginal languages. I have heard many great things about this program from so many people in my constituency. Mr. Speaker, other Members have said the same thing about the nests in their ridings.

This program seems to be effective across the Territories. In this House, I was encouraged by the strong support of these initiatives by the Minister and many Members on this side of the floor. I believe we can work together to work this out. The work done by the last Assembly in reviewing the Official Languages Act was good, Mr. Speaker; a lot of important initiatives have come out of it. I believe if this government can locate funds to create another bureaucratic body, it can find money for the children. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Value Of Aboriginal Language And Culture

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 294

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Shortage Of Northern Hires At Diamond Mines

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 294

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today with an issue that was brought to my attention by some of my constituents and may ultimately affect the youth of our territory. The issue I refer to, Mr. Speaker, is the apparent lack of northerners being hired at our diamond mines.

Mr. Speaker, I read a glowing news release from Diavik Mine on February 3rd that stated that they had exceeded the commitment they had made to this government, that there would be 66 percent northern hires at the mine. The news release stated that 74 percent of the mine employees were northern residents. I have a hard time with this figure, Mr. Speaker, as I heard from our local Hay River residents of the problems that they are encountering being hired at the mine.

I hear stories, Mr. Speaker, of local Hay River residents who were employed during the initial construction phase of the mines and then laid off and were not able to obtain further work at the mines once they went into production. These are long-time northerners coming to me, Mr. Speaker. Now let me make it clear that I am referring to both BHP and Diavik.

I am also aware of the argument that the mines subcontract out a lot of the hiring of employees to various northern firms and therein may lie the problem. Whatever is causing the problem, there are far too many stories of plane loads of workers coming directly from the South to work at the mines and then flying directly south again.

My question is who is checking up on these northern firms to determine that they are meeting the targets. Who confirms that the people hired for work at the mines are really northern residents? What checks and balances are in place?

Mr. Speaker, I am also concerned about the apparent lack of apprenticeship programs at the mines. I believe the mine should be looking at more programs designed specifically to entice our young people to remain in the North and seek gainful employment. I question what is being done in the non-impact communities to lure young people to come back and work at the diamond mines. These young people are northerners as well, Mr. Speaker. I believe we need to ask these tough questions for the sake of our children, Mr. Speaker, and the next generation of true northerners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Shortage Of Northern Hires At Diamond Mines

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 294

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Support For The Land-based Economy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 294

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In today's economic environment, the heading in any major newspaper could read "Land-based Economy in Conflict with Commerce-based Economy." Mr. Speaker, during the last few days, a workshop was held at the Northern United Place between members of the non-government organizations, industry representatives, renewable resource councils, hunters' and trappers' committees and other vested interest groups.

Mr. Speaker, I was informed that much of the work done is not about alcohol and drugs as much as about grief. It's about the loss of a culture which few Canadians are aware of. The work of this group, as I am to understand, is about how we begin to manage the shift, making the transition from a land-based economy into a commerce-based one.

Mr. Speaker, undoubtedly there are many expectations from communities for this government to support this shift in economics, education, culture and employment-driven

policy. One major expectation we've seen from our observations is that everyone must work in the diamond or oil and gas industry, Mr. Speaker. These expectations will never be met, Mr. Speaker. Why would it not? Mr. Speaker, we know only too well that people must prepare years in advance before they become proficient in any trade or occupation and, in our case, being political masters in our own land.

Mr. Speaker, in my consultations, people who work in the communities have expressed that we need to educate ourselves on how industry and government work. The people need to know what kind of benefits a pipeline deal offers in the context of socioeconomic agreements and land-access agreements.

Mr. Speaker, it is very difficult to fit into a two-and-a-half-minute statement all the variables that need to be considered in the overall shift in our economic growth. What I want to state very early is the work of these groups is highly recognized and appreciated in my riding. Therefore, I want to see this government make a concerted effort to support a land-based economy until such time as individuals, Northwest Territorians, make the full transition into a commerce-based economy.

I want to wish the participants of these workshops a continued success in their work and endeavours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Support For The Land-based Economy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 295

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Service Levels At The Hay River Health Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 295

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to use my Member's statement today to speak to the issue of our capacity as a government to meet the health needs of our residents. One area of issue which has been referred to recently is our ability to effectively convince the federal government of the deficiencies in the areas under which they have a specific obligation to First Nations people in the Northwest Territories.

Another ongoing challenge we are faced with is the practice of the federal government to distribute new funding on a per capita basis which is always detrimental given our small population and the unique challenges of the remote nature of many of our communities. Add to this the ongoing forced growth and expenditures due to health care professional shortages, new technology, pharmaceuticals and the ever-expanding availability of new treatments and procedures in medical science and we have a very pressing challenge to ensure that our people receive health services on par with any other Canadian citizen.

We are also particularly challenged given what the Minister has referred to as northerners' disproportionate penchant for smoking, abusing drugs and alcohol, eating too much and exercising too little, but we must press on. The provision of quality health services for our residents is a top priority of most northerners as it relates to their quality of life. That is why I want to see some serious effort being expended. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't hear another very disappointing report of my constituents being failed by the health care system. We cannot afford to be complacent with this.

We have shortages in Hay River that are going to jeopardize the well-being of our citizens and our ability to retain our health care providers. I want to see some decisive and tangible movement on this problem sooner than later. Mr. Speaker, who is in charge? I would characterize the situation in Hay River as approaching crisis and will have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services on these matters later today in question period. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Service Levels At The Hay River Health Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 295

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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The Roles And Responsibilities Of Regular Members Of The Legislative Assembly

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 295

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to take this opportunity to comment on the power and responsibility I feel I have as a Regular Member of this Assembly and to make a point that if we are to conduct ourselves as part of a consensus government, we must be able to exercise our power and responsibility to the fullest extent possible, especially when we are dealing with something as fundamental as setting a budget for the whole fiscal year coming before us.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that we are operating under some constraints -- not only due to the deficit situation, but also due to the reduced time frames that we have had to work with as a result of the last general election -- but I don't think that these constraints should necessarily reduce our power.

In the last Assembly, I sat through four budget sessions where the orientation of the government seemed to be spend, spend, spend, because the good times were coming and we raised taxes. Mr. Speaker, I tell you I opposed the tax initiatives and out-of-control spending and I know the current Minister of Finance was right there with me. Now, the orientation in this Assembly seems to be cut, cut, cut, and still we raise taxes.

Mr. Speaker, in both situations, I am having a problem with the fact that we have to take the whole package the government offers -- take it or leave it -- and I don't think that's right. I think if we have a consensus government we should have the ability to review what's presented to us, to have a say on where we stand on each item. It shouldn't mean that if we accept one, we accept the whole package or that if we reject one, that we're rejecting the whole thing. If we, on this side of the House, have a recommendation that has a strong consensus, I really believe the government has an obligation and responsibility to listen to us and not say, you can't ask for this...

Mr. Speaker, I ask for unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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The Roles And Responsibilities Of Regular Members Of The Legislative Assembly

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 295

The Speaker

David Krutko

Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? You have unanimous consent to conclude your statement.

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The Roles And Responsibilities Of Regular Members Of The Legislative Assembly

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 295

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe Regular Members of this House are doing a very thorough job of providing input, and I don't want there to be any misconception on the part of the government that this is

just an exercise and, at the end of the day, they are going to get the whole package approved. Mr. Speaker, if that is the case, we might as well pack up and go home because we already had a reduced budget cycle and the government has thousands of employees that review and set priorities. I do believe the Ministers and Cabinet could do a better job in listening to the advice being provided by this side of the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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The Roles And Responsibilities Of Regular Members Of The Legislative Assembly

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 296

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Impact Of The Budget On Fort Simpson Community Status

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 296

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, mahsi cho. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to address the village of Fort Simpson and how it plans to revert back to hamlet status as a result of MACA's community formula funding projections. Mr. Speaker, Fort Simpson was considered a hamlet until it reverted to village status in 1973. Fort Simpson is the only village of this status in the Northwest Territories and the main source of revenue is taxation. Fort Simpson thought it was making the right decision to revert to a village, only to find out the growth in population, and taxable infrastructure has been minimal over the past 30 years.

The village has worked very hard to operate on the revenue generated from taxation and from the GNWT community funding and, as a result, expenses were decreased and user fees increased.

While it is appreciated that there were extraordinary circumstances that the GNWT did help out with, now is the time for repayment now, when the impact of the expected budget reductions will cause the village of Fort Simpson to either cancel some well-needed renovations or double the taxes of the people of Fort Simpson in order to maintain their present revenue. The village definitely does not want to raise the taxes and burden the people of Fort Simpson any further. The mayor and council are convinced, as a result of the budget reductions, that there is no other alternative but to revert back to hamlet.

They see that the benefits far outweigh those of being a village. They feel that they would rather do it now rather than later than to use the expected study that the GNWT is very willing pay for. Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the Minister of MACA questions relating to this matter at the appropriate time. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Impact Of The Budget On Fort Simpson Community Status

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 296

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Service Levels At The Hay River Health Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 296

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I will use my Member's statement to emphasize the same concerns raised by another Member today. I would like to read a letter I received from a resident, and I quote, "On Monday and Wednesday of this week, March 22nd and 24th, people have been turned away from the medical clinic in Hay River without any outpatient services available; there was no outpatient care available in the hospital as well.

People can't get adequate medical attention there either." They are literally told by the staff at the medical clinic that, "There is a medical crisis at the hospital and we can't help you." So those who would need to see a doctor now have no options. Why? Because there are no outpatient services at the hospital.

If the staff at the hospital deem that you're not considered an emergency, they too send you home. So what is an emergency? Why can't people just get adequate care before something turns into a life-threatening event? Why can't the hospital hire any more doctors or RNs to see patients in Hay River? Is this not the Hub of the North? It is my understanding that there are many people from Fort Providence, Kakisa, Enterprise and Fort Resolution, as well as individuals from Fort Smith, who access the health care services in Hay River. Will these individuals who are in dire need to see doctors have to go all the way to High Level or over to Yellowknife?

This is outrageous. Who will help these people? Will the government or the hospital foot the bill for travel costs for these people? I say this because those individuals travel from their home communities to receive treatment but are told they can't be helped. Those individuals, some of whom had to hire others to drive them to Hay River, now can't do anything but wait; some for hours, some for days. Something needs to be done immediately. God forbid an accident occurs on the highway or something and because there is no one available to work, someone might die. Is this right? I don't believe so.

I expect an investigation on this very important matter. In an ideal world, more doctors would be hired right away, locums perhaps. Do something. People are suffering and it isn't fair to them.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that this letter clearly demonstrates that there is a critical situation that medical professionals, patients and people in the South Slave region are caught in. I urge this government to expedite the current measures underway to alleviate these concerns of our constituents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Service Levels At The Hay River Health Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 296

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Current Financial Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 296

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to use my Member's statement today to comment on our relationship with Ottawa. Having been a Member in this Assembly for four months, it is becoming increasingly evident that we have some huge financial hurdles to overcome if we are ever to get a firm grip on running an effective government here in the Northwest Territories.

The arrangement that we have in place today, Mr. Speaker, is something that has to be remedied. The fact that for every dollar we raise in taxation revenue, we must give 80 cents of it back to Ottawa is insane. The colonial mentality and the way Ottawa treats us as a territory has got to improve. Year after year, government after government, the same sad story continues to be told: We have to get a better deal from Ottawa. Not just in our financial arrangement, Mr. Speaker, but with devolution and resource revenue sharing. This has been a persistent problem for years.

Why haven't we made progress on these important issues? Mr. Speaker, I believe that the common denominator is the Liberal government in Ottawa and the henchmen from DIAND. They are, in my opinion, the single biggest obstacle to our government and the way we govern and conduct our business. Perhaps it is time, Mr. Speaker, that we develop some new approaches to dealing with Ottawa. It may be time to develop another business coalition or lobby to again remind them that we are here.

I certainly am not saying a Conservative or NDP government in Ottawa would treat us any differently. They may. Mr. Speaker, the liberal government is certainly not helping us. They continue to ignore us in our desire to have more control over our finances, resources and future. We need to stem the colonial attitude and approach Ottawa has toward us. We have a new Premier , a new government, and, if I can say, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Handley does bear a slight resemblance to Mahatma Gandhi.

---Laughter

In a search for answers, Mr. Speaker, maybe he can get some good sandals and lead us on a walk to Ottawa. Thank you.

---Applause

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Current Financial Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 297

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Hawkins .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 297

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to use this opportunity to recognize our Pages that we have here today. We have two Pages from Fort Simpson. We have four of them from Hay River and two from Yellowknife. I just want to give them a warm welcome for their great job well done. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 297

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would like to recognize the people that are in the gallery. I would like to thank you for coming today. Welcome to the Legislative Assembly.

---Applause

Item 7, oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 297

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said in my Member's statement, my questions today are going to be for the Honourable Michael Miltenberger , the Minister of Health and Social Services .

As I said in my statement, Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the challenges which face this particular ministry and the many things which are affecting our ability to deliver quality health services to the people of the Northwest Territories. But we have a very urgent situation in Hay River which will not be addressed by some of the long-term solutions and initiatives that are being looked at by Mr. Miltenberger 's department.

We have people who are being turned away from the medical clinic. The staff that we have there right now is very quickly beginning to feel the effects of the stress of being worked beyond their capacity. I am afraid for the well-being of our residents as they need health care services and are not able to access them. I would like to ask the Minister what kind of temporary, short-term help he could offer Hay River in this very dire situation. Is he aware of how many doctors there are there right now? Is he aware of the status of the facility in Hay River? I will have further questions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 297

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 297

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am aware somewhat of the situation in Hay River. I have talked to the honourable Member. I have been in discussions with the board chair. I have instructed the department to take a look. We initially talked about the human resource issue. We need to look at why possibly there is such a high turnover rate and if there are some underlying issues. Subsequent to that, I have also received some correspondence through e-mail from concerned people in Hay River. We are moving as quick as we can to take a look at this.

I understand, as well, that the board in Hay River will be meeting. At the break, I am going up to have a talk with the board chair as well as with the deputy minister to make sure that we stay on top of this situation. Thank you.

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Return To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 297

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 297

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister how many doctors are available in Hay River today, as we speak. My understanding is that we have at least one that is off, perhaps, on maternity leave and perhaps another one who is unwell themselves. I would like to know how many doctors are on call in Hay River right now. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 297

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 297

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this particular moment, right now, I can't tell the Member exactly. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 297

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 297

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Hay River is the second-largest community in

the Northwest Territories. We have a well-equipped and modern health care facility. If there are not enough doctors there right now, what means does the Minister have at his disposal to address that? Could he redeploy health care professionals from other jurisdictions to alleviate the immediate crisis in Hay River? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the first thing, as Minister, that I want to do is get the most current and complete set of facts that I can. If there are shortages -- I have no reason to doubt that there aren't -- we will work with the community and the board and keep the Members involved. We will work out a system to provide the services and work to get the resources that are needed wherever we have to look. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister to intervene with whatever measures he feels possible in the short term to address this. I realize he is talking about meeting with the board and some other types of long-term solutions, but I believe that we have a very immediate problem in Hay River. I would like him to, as Minister, intervene in that situation and use whatever resources he has at his disposal to ensure that the medical needs of the people of Hay River are covered. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member is very clear about her passion and concern about the community that she represents. I want to assure her that I, as Minister, will be taking all of the steps necessary to make sure that nobody's health is jeopardized for situations that may have ties to human resources issues or lack of personnel. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Question 76-15(3): Shortage Of Health Care Professionals In Hay River

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 7, oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just want to first start by stating a great thanks to the Minister of Justice for finally finding and dusting off and tabling those six out of seven absent annual reports for the Legal Services Board.

---Applause

That was a good demonstration of using in-house resources on an archaeological find.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Justice is when, as noted, will he be tabling the seventh of the outstanding reports in this House? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Justice , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I informed the House two days ago, my intention is to table that report as soon as possible. I am expecting to have it by March 31st, but if I don't have it in time to table on the last day of this session, it will be tabled in the session we have in May and June.

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Return To Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just a question for clarity for myself and other Members of this House. How does the Minister draw up a budget for his department in the absence of that report being tabled in the House? Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Justice , Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the report doesn't contain information that isn't already included in the audited financial statements of this government. The finances are audited by the Auditor General, so there's no question as to whether or not the funds have been expended at this point. The report is tabled as supplementary information for the Members and the public. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Question 77-15(3): 2003-04 Report Of The Legal Services Board

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 7, oral questions. The Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 298

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, recently I've received a number of letters from the constituents of Deline. They wrote to me because they're very concerned that the funding for the family literacy projects would not be continued. As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, family literacy projects have been funded through the NWT Literacy Council with money from the early childhood development framework for action. It's a grassroots project that works really well with parents to help them see that they are the first and foremost important teachers of our children. It gets families involved in the education of their children.

The program has made a positive difference in the lives of children and families across the Northwest Territories. Unfortunately, with the sunsetting of this initiative, the work that went into setting up the grassroots infrastructure, the very thing that made this program so effective, risks being lost. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment if a review of early childhood development action plans has been assessed and why the department has not decided to locate alternative funding to continue the family literacy program? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . I heard two questions. Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The assessment of the programs that were funded under the early childhood framework for action has begun. I am hoping to have the assessments completed before the end of April so that we can assess where the priority areas would be for putting funding if we are able to find any new funding for that program. That was the Member's first question.

The second question was why we have not been able to find money for the program. The issue has been one of restraint, as was pointed out by Ms. Lee in her statement today. The budget that we brought forward didn't leave us much opportunity for innovation. We brought forward basically the budget that had been prepared by the previous government and, in fact, I was given the responsibility of bringing that forward and cutting further from it before presenting it in this House. There wasn't a lot of flexibility to move monies around to find money for this area because of other priority areas in the department. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I apologize for the two questions in one. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I find it ironic that this government can fail to locate funds to continue such a well-received program, especially after resources are being forwarded to set up the necessary grassroots infrastructure for its delivery. Yet, Mr. Speaker, this government can find funds to create yet another bureaucratic body. I'm speaking of the $100,000 day to day to support the Official Languages Board. Granted, the $100,000 will not be sufficient to manage the $1.3 million that sunset this year, however, it could be a start, Mr. Speaker.

Can the Minister tell me whether he considers cancelling any other programs for services prior to making the decision to let the sunsetting of the family literacy program of the early childhood program stand? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

The Speaker

David Krutko

Just to remind the Members, your supplementary question should be a question, not another statement and a question. Just to remind the Members. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment .

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Further Return To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I assume that you want the same sort of thoughts kept in mind by Ministers responding. I'll try and keep it brief.

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Further Return To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

An Hon. Member

Run the clock, run the clock.

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Further Return To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, the Member asked if we've been able to find any areas that we could cut to provide funding for this important program. I'd have to say looking for $1.2 million may sound like it's easy in a department that's got $214 million in the books, but if you take out all of the contributions, there really is less than 15 percent of that total budget that's available for any discretion at all and finding a million dollars out of that is very difficult.

I certainly would not be prepared to tell this House that I'm not proceeding with the language boards. I think the Special Committee on Official Languages heard loud and clear from people across the North that they want to see that sort of service. So we are planning to proceed with implementing those two boards. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister make a commitment to share the results of the review of the Early Childhood Development Action Plan with this Assembly when it's completed? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, it would be my intention to share that, particularly with the Standing Committee on Social Programs if the Assembly is not in session. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Question 78-15(3): Early Childhood Development

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 7, oral questions. The Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement, I spoke about northern hires at the mine. I certainly don't want to be too negative about that because I know that a lot of northerners and a lot of Hay River people are working at the mine. But there still appears to be quite a gap and a lot of people still trying to get on at the mines and not having much success. I would like to direct my questions to the Premier and he can redirect them to the appropriate Minister. I'm not exactly sure which Minister I should be addressing.

What specific auditing procedures are currently in place through this government to determine that the 66 percent northern hire content is being met at the diamond mines? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

The Speaker

David Krutko

Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, in the case of both Ekati Mine and Diavik Mine, there is a reliance on self-reporting by the mines. Both mines put out regular reports on their northern hires, southern hires and aboriginal hires. Thank you.

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Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 299

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister tell me what apprenticeship programs

there are at the mines to encourage northern young people to seek employment at the mines? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Supplementary To Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I'll refer that question to the Minister of ECE . Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

The question is referred to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can't enumerate the specific training programs that are on at each of the individual mines right now, but I know that there are a number at the mines. I must say that compared to what we had with mines about eight years ago, the growth of the number of people who are in apprenticeship programs in mining in the North right now has been quite dramatic.

When I first became Minister in the 13th Assembly I think between all the mines in the Northwest Territories, which was much bigger then than it is now, there was only one apprentice. We've gone way beyond that and I know that at one point we were approaching 28 apprentices between the two mines that are operating. I can't say whether that's still the case today, but I do believe that we are still seeing a good number of apprentices working at the northern mines. Thank you.

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Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, is the Minister aware if there is a summer student hiring practice currently being employed at the diamond mines? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, Diavik for sure has a summer student program and I'm almost 100 percent certain that Ekati Mine does as well. I know that there have been a number of university students who have worked at both of the mines over the summers. I don't know the details or the eligibility or how they select the students who do work there. Thank you.

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Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, is the Minister aware of what the percentage of workers at the mines are direct employees of BHP and Diavik conversely and what percentage of hires are hired by outside contractors? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In both cases, the mines do use subcontractors extensively. I would guess that probably a fairly small percentage are direct employees of the mines at the mine site. Mr. Speaker, I will undertake to try to get some information for the Member on roughly what the break out might be. Thank you.

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Question 79-15(3): Monitoring Diamond Mine Hiring Practices

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 7, oral questions. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the context of my Member's statement, I too want to ask the Minister of RWED whether he can confirm that he had a departmental official designated as an observer to the environmental assessment impact workshops in Yellowknife on March 22nd to 24th. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Bell .

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Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The meetings that the Member is referring to on the 23rd and 24th in Yellowknife were private meetings between NGOs and the Producers Group, and it was Imperial Oil, I believe, that hosted the meetings and put out the invitations. Our government was not invited to attend, but I will reassure the Member that we are continually kept updated and kept apprised of developments, and in this case it is no different. Thank you.

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Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Allen .

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Supplementary To Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is regrettable that they didn't have an observer at the meeting because it is important. I think it is also important that the Minister table in this House an example of the socioeconomic framework agreement that these working groups can use as a tool to help develop themselves throughout the process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of RWED , Mr. Bell .

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Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 300

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can certainly do that. I know the socioeconomic agreement, or SEA, between this government and Diavik, for instance, is a public document, as is the one between our government and BHP Billiton Ekati Mine. I can certainly table those documents again. I can provide committee Members with those documents. I think the important point that the Member is making though is that we definitely need a policy framework for the negotiation of industrial benefits, and that is certainly something that we have to get a handle on. We have been doing some good work in this area. I think we need to continue that work because there

are a number of judgements to be made when these things are being negotiated, and we negotiate over a broad range of criteria, and a wide area. I think it is important for us to know, for instance, what the most important things are to northerners. The more and more employment we see -- and we have highest employment in the country -- at a certain point you start to talk about whether it is more important to have business opportunities flow as opposed to direct employment, and there are a number of tradeoffs, and a number of questions to be asked. But I think the most important thing to understand is that we definitely need a framework for negotiating these industrial benefits. Thank you.

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Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Allen .

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Supplementary To Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final question to the Minister then is would his department take a more proactive approach in trying to help educate the smaller communities in trying to adjust to some of these environmental processes? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of RWED , Mr. Bell .

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Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we are certainly willing to work with communities to help them participate in the SEA process. We expect that DIAND will also take a lead role in this capacity. They have a mandate in terms of capacity building and working with communities to make sure there is meaningful engagement and participation in the SEA process. I would also state that some very good work is being done by NGOs. I know CARC intends to do a lot of work with communities as it relates to the SEA for the pipeline.

I think it is important to have engagement from all levels of government and the NGOs, and to make sure that there is certainly some coordination so there aren't duplicated efforts and we aren't consulting to death, as it were, Mr. Speaker. I think it is important to make sure that we provide resources and help communities engage in this process in a meaningful way. Thank you.

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Question 80-15(3): Attendance At Pipeline Environmental Review Meetings

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 7, oral questions. The Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is in the same program area that the honourable Member for Sahtu had mentioned earlier, and it is with regard to early childhood development. My question is to Minister Dent . Mr. Speaker, as I stated in my Member's statement, I really think we should change the approach of budget debate and approval where the government presents us with the box and we have to either accept the box or reject the box.

I think the better way might be, an analogy is if the government could present us with a lump of dough that we could work with, and the Members on this side should be able to shape that dough and not have to always look to a square box that the government imposes on us.

Mr. Speaker, one of the things that is happening is that this very highly successful early childhood development will have a serious reduction in its funds, and many Members here have given anecdotal evidence from the ground level. For myself, I have been to Range Lake North School where teachers have given evaluations of the success of this program in promoting reading and life skills, and preparing children. Just when it is getting some momentum and life after three years of the program, we are going to take it away. My question first to the Minister is on the evaluation side.

The Minister is suggesting that this program will be evaluated, it will be finished, but it will be evaluated, and then he will decide, or the government will decide, whether it will be reinstated or not. I want to know why that order. Shouldn't the evaluation be done before the program comes to an end? Thank you.

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Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

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Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just to the Member's earlier comments, typically in our process we do actually allow the sort of shaping of the dough by all Members in this House, because we have what is called the business planning process. Unfortunately, because of the timing of the election, we were rushed into getting a budget into the House to try and have the money to spend by April 1st. So we didn't have the chance of all of us working together on the dough to come up with an understanding of what things would look like.

We took what the previous government had put together and brought it forward with some very small changes in order to try and accommodate the wishes of all Members, which was that we would reduce some of the spending so that we didn't see such a big deficit. The evaluation was always scheduled for the termination of the program. The previous government brought forward this initiative as a three-year time-limited program, with the intent that it would wrap up after three years. There was no money in the fiscal framework to continue past that in the way it was presented.

So it was always planned that the evaluation would take place at the termination of the program so that you'd have the best chance of having programs up and running and completed, and then you could evaluate them. So that is why the scheduling was set as it was. The evaluations will be done very shortly, and I would be prepared to share them with the committee.

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Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 301

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess the Minister could explain in a nice little neat package why the process is the way it is. But I am telling you, it doesn't make any sense that you do an evaluation after having decided what to do with the program. Speaking of the dough, I think the Members here are fully appreciative of the constrained time limit. So we are not suggesting to bake a big, huge, fancy cake with the dough.

---Laugher

I believe we have suggested a very modest, small, little cake. There have been so few suggestions for restoration of any programs. We are basically going with what the government is suggesting. I must say, this is one highlight where there has been huge consensus on this part, and there has been no movement on the part of the government. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister what are we losing in terms of linkages with this program, because I understand there have been lots of federal government money, Literacy Council money, there has been mobilization of forces in this. What are we losing not just on the part of what government is cutting? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are not losing any of the federal contribution. The federal contribution is continuing to flow. All of the money that we are receiving in ECE from the federal contribution will be flowed through to the Literacy Council to continue on with their very important programming. I outlined yesterday, during Committee of the Whole, a number of the areas in which we are losing the funding. The biggest one is the one that the Member for Sahtu raised, and that is the language nests. That amounts for about $900,000 of the total that we would no longer have to put forward.

I don't think anybody has said that this hasn't turned out to be a very good program. I have talked about it with my Cabinet colleagues and we are anxious to see if there's a way to fund these important programs, particularly ones like the language nests. But at this point, we haven't been able to find the money to free up to put into these programs. With all the priorities that we have to deliver just on the programs within Education, I don't have $1 million to move around that easily. So it has to be one that has to be found elsewhere, and we haven't found that yet. Thank you.

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Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I must say this has been a successful project, a tripartite partnership between the federal government, territorial government and an NGO of council, and now the territorial government is going to reduce its support just at a time when it's really gaining momentum. Mr. Speaker, it's really a crying shame, as the Member for Sahtu would say, that this Cabinet and government fights tooth and nail to protect every government position, every dollar in their other expenses, but not fight for a program that has been so successful for our children. So I would ask the Minister for his full commitment to see what he can do to restore this program. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am more than pleased to be able to say again that if I could find some money to put to this program it would be the first priority within my department that would find the money.

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Further Return To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 7, oral questions. Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I have been here long enough to know that the Minister's commitment that he just gave really is not a commitment that would necessarily see a result, and a result that would translate into keeping this program or reinstating a program. So I believe one of the Members perhaps seeing that the Minister is engaged in an evaluation of this program, would he consider extending it on a short term until the evaluation comes and so he has time to find money before it expires? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the only money that my department has to spend is within the budget; the budget that we've gone through in this House, and that budget did not include enough money to extend the programs. So I would be outside the authority I have under the FAA to agree to that. I commit to this House that I will do what I can to find the money to be able to allow the program to continue. But the Member is right, I can't promise that I'm going to be able to do that in time for these programs to continue on April 1st.

It's my goal and I will do the best that I can, but it's not something that I can commit to. I can't say that I can do it, because I don't have the money right now, but I will continue to look for that money.

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Further Return To Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Question 81-15(3): Early Childhood Development Program Funding

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 7, oral questions. Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions go back to my Member's statement that I made earlier and they have to do with the relationship with Ottawa and the message that needs to be sent to Ottawa, that we want control over our resources and our financial arrangements. The question I have for the Premier is whether we can do more to coordinate our efforts with industry to deliver this message. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

The Speaker

David Krutko

The question is directed to the Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 302

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When we face challenges like this, we can all learn a lot from Ghandi.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, he was very clear and I think there are some things we can learn from him. We have to have a very

clear message. We have to have a common message with industry and with other leaders. Second is that we have to be an example ourselves. If we want to ask Ottawa for more resources, more money, more of anything, then we have to show that we're using what we have here ourselves. We also have to show that to the business community, and to other leaders and other governments, as well. So that's something else we can do.

Mr. Speaker, respect for others. We have to go to Ottawa, we have to show respect for our partners in the North, we have to show respect for people in Ottawa. I am one who believes that a good logical argument, as Ghandi believed, carries a lot of weight and will bring us a long way. So we need to work with partners on that. Another is that you can't flinch in spite of what seems like overwhelming odds. We know we have a strong argument, we know we have Ottawa who has an agenda that may be different than ours at times, but we have to keep on with the message and not blink, not flinch simply because it seems overwhelming. Staying the steady course is particularly important.

I think, finally, one thing that Ghandi stood for, of course, was non-violence. By being straightforward, being honest, being sensible, having a clear message, working in partnership with other northerners, we can achieve a great deal in Ottawa over the next four years. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

An Hon. Member

Yea!

---Applause

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Return To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thanks, Premier , for that. The Premier talks of respect, and I think the people who aren't getting the respect are the folks who live in the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

If I could add; diplomacy has failed us thus far. We have been talking about resource revenue sharing in this territory for the past 17 years; year in, year out, government after government. I hope the Premier has some answers for this question. What makes the Premier think that his government can help us deliver our message to Ottawa so that we can finally get the respect that we deserve? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

The Speaker

David Krutko

Order, order. Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, there seems to be a lot of passion in here today. Mr. Speaker, I am very confident that we can deliver a good, solid message to Ottawa and get a good response back. In fact, that has been proven already in terms of the success that we've had and the cooperation we've had with Ottawa on the fiscal side. I think in terms of our formula, Mr. Roland and others who have been down there have carried the message and it has shown that Ottawa is listening.

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Further Return To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gets very difficult. I know two years ago, the corporate income tax rate was lowered from 14 percent to 12 percent in an effort to try to attract business in the Northwest Territories, and now the suggestion is that it go up again to 14 percent. How do we as ordinary Members, Mr. Speaker, communicate that absurd message to the business community? We need some serious reform on our financial relationship with Ottawa. I'm wondering, though you, Mr. Speaker, what leverage do we have to make Ottawa listen to our concerns. Like I said, diplomacy has failed.

We have to get some surety on our financial situation. This is absolutely no way to run a government, the way we're doing it, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A few years ago we were able to lower the corporate income tax rate to give the corporate sector a break and to also use it as a way to stimulate our economy. We also lowered the tax rate for small businesses, which continues to be in effect. That worked a few years ago. It doesn't work any more because of the rebasing of the financing formula. I think Mr. Roland has explained how that works. In fact, it has become a perversity in our formula, so we have had to increase it in order to not lose money as our economy grows.

It's not being done to punish the corporations, but simply because we would lose money with economic growth if we didn't bring the corporate tax rate up because of the way our formula is structured. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 82-15(3 Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 303

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe we have a very strong message to send not only to the federal government in Ottawa, but to the rest of Canada. We are going to put a lot into the Canadian coffers in the next 10 to 20 years for sure, and it's about time that the rest of Canadians started paying attention to what's happening here in the Northwest Territories. I would like to ask the Premier -- I know we have some

early indication that there might be some interest in the business here in the Northwest Territories -- to start on another lobby to Ottawa. A business coalition or something of that sort, a lobby to go down there, bang on the door again and again. Let them know that we're here and let them know that we're interested in trying to finally get some control over our own destiny. Thank you.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 82-15(3 Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 304

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 304

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The honourable Member is correct; that in the last government we were very successful in working in partnership with the business community through the Business Coalition, especially on the transportation infrastructure funding side. We had a lot of success; $65 million of success.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of RWED and myself have had discussions with the business community. We are very interested in working with them again as we put our strategy together in partnership with all the other leaders in the Territories to again mount a successful campaign in Ottawa that is very focussed and very clear with one message from the North. So, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear that Mr. Ramsay is also hearing from the business community that they want to work with us. We want to work with them, too. Thank you.

---Applause

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Further Return To Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Question 82-15(3): Forging A New Relationship With The Federal Government

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 304

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 7, oral questions. Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 83-15(3): Community Status Of Fort Simpson

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 304

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of MACA . With respect to my Member's statement earlier, the Village of Fort Simpson has been looking at this idea about reverting to hamlet from village status. In light of the recent budget figures that they're looking at, they want to speed up the process. My question for the Minister is if things are kind of heating up with this debate, I was wondering if the Minister is willing to meet with officials of the Village of Fort Simpson in the near future to resolve this issue and look at some alternatives. Thank you.

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Question 83-15(3): Community Status Of Fort Simpson

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 304

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Zoe .

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Return To Question 83-15(3): Community Status Of Fort Simpson

Question 83-15(3): Community Status Of Fort Simpson

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 304

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member had indicated to me a situation that is happening in Fort Simpson earlier on. I indicated to him that in the letter that I wrote a month ago, I suggested to the municipality that my officials at the regional level would meet with them to discuss the various alternatives that they would like to look at. One of the suggestions that I made to the municipality was to assist them with funding to undertake a study to determine the pros and cons of becoming a hamlet from village status.

In my correspondence, I also indicated that my officials are recommending a company to them that could undertake this type of work. My understanding to date is that the village council is considering either putting out an RFP for a company to undertake that work, or to hire a contractor directly to undert