Debates of Feb. 28th, 1992

This is page numbers 185 - 206 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was capital .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Ministers' Statement 20-12(2): Ministers' Absences From The House

Ministers' Statement 21-12(2): Training For Native Social Workers

Lack Of Banking Services In Nwt

Banking Problem Within The Nwt

Abstention By Alcohol And Drug Counsellors

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Question O198-12(2): Legal Questions With Regard To Sobriety Clause

Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Question O200-12(2): Support For Native Canadians As A Distinct Society

Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Question O203-12(2): Lack Of Information To Communities Re Abstinence Clause

Question O204-12(2): Lack Of Community Consultation Re Abstinence Clause

Question O205-12(2): Commitment Of Minister To Meet With Baffin Regional Council Re Abstinence Clause

Question O206-12(2): Application Of Sobriety Clause To All GNWT Staff Involved With Alcohol And Drug Programs

Question O207-12(2): Sale Of Staff Housing In Smaller Communities

Question O208-12(2): Training For Education Professionals

Question O209-12(2): Directive Regarding Abstention Clause

Question O210-12(2): Eligibility To Purchase Government Housing

Question O211-12(2): Rental Units Being Sold To Occupants

Notice Of Motion For First Reading Of Bill 16: Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Act

Notice Of Motion For First Reading Of Bill 17: Child Day-care Act

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Mr. Bernhardt , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Nerysoo , Hon. John Ningark , Hon. Dennis Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Mr. Todd , Hon. Tony Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 185

The Speaker

Good afternoon. Orders of the day for Friday, February 28, 1992. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Ms. Cournoyea .

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Ministers' Statement 20-12(2): Ministers' Absences From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 185

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Hon. Stephen Kakfwi will be absent from the House on March 3rd and 4th, to attend a meeting of provincial/territorial Ministers responsible for aboriginal affairs. Provincial and territorial officials met in Yellowknife last spring to plan this meeting following the Oka crisis and the disintegration of the Meech Lake Accord. The NWT delegation will have full status at this meeting.

As well, the Hon. John Ningark will also be absent on March 3rd, 4th and 5th, to attend various meetings in Vancouver and Ottawa. These include: meeting with the Hon.

John Crosbie to discuss the Baffin fishery and quotas, and Government of the Northwest Territories' representation in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans' departmental reform process in relation to licensing and allocation issues; a meeting with the Fur Institute of Canada and Indigenous Survival International, as part of his ongoing commitment to support the fur industry; a meeting with the Canadian committee on UNESCO to promote the use of traditional knowledge in resource management; the National Forest Congress to sign an accord to ratify the national forest strategy, and to meet with a representative of the BC Minister of Forests to discuss transboundary forest issues in the Fort Liard area.

Thank you.

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Ministers' Statement 20-12(2): Ministers' Absences From The House

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 185

The Speaker

Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Mr. Whitford .

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Ministers' Statement 21-12(2): Training For Native Social Workers

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 185

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Nicola Valley Institute of Technology, in conjunction with Arctic College and funded by the Department of Social Services, child sexual abuse program, has offered training to native social service workers and alcohol and drug workers who are involved in the delivery of service to victims and adult survivors of child sexual abuse. The training program commenced in September of 1991 and was completed as of February 28, 1992. Graduation for the participants took place yesterday, February 27, and I was pleased to attend those ceremonies and speak to the graduates.

The participants have travelled from their communities to Yellowknife for this training, which consisted of five two-week sessions, and came from the following communities: Fort Norman, Rankin Inlet, Coppermine, Baker Lake, Fort Franklin, Fort Good Hope, Yellowknife, Arviat, Fort Providence, Inuvik, Pangnirtung, Fort Smith and Aklavik.

There was a three-week period between each session where participants returned to their communities to put their learning experiences to practical use. This training has enhanced the workers' knowledge and skills necessary to provide programming and services for the prevention and treatment of sexual abuse.

A further period of on-the-job training, under the supervision of the specialists in the child sexual abuse program who will be centred in Iqaluit, Baker Lake, Fort Simpson and Inuvik, is planned. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Ministers' Statement 21-12(2): Training For Native Social Workers

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 185

The Speaker

Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Members' statements. Mr. Lewis .

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Lack Of Banking Services In Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 185

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When we did our work as Members of the special committee on the northern economy and reported a couple of years ago to the 11th Assembly, one of the recommendations that we had was that one of the basic weaknesses in our economy was the provision of financial services. There were very few banks in the Northwest Territories, and people who did not have access to financial services were disadvantaged in our economy.

Some attempts have been made recently to try to access federal funding through the CAEDS, Canadian Aboriginal Economic Development Strategy, program. This has been stalled simply because no arrangement could be made whereby any kind of banking service can access this money simply because there is some fear about funding any kind of organization in which deposits are involved.

Mr. Speaker, over the next while, since many of us still believe that basic banking services are a major weakness in our economy, we will be using every kind of device possible to try to provide some kind of solution to this problem. We do not know exactly what it is, but this is a real problem which needs to be resolved, and I will be asking Members of the government to try to help us get it resolved. Thank you.

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Lack Of Banking Services In Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 185

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat .

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Banking Problem Within The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 185

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, have a statement further to the statement made by my colleague, Mr. Lewis . We, in the northern regions have so-called banking facilities through the Hudson's Bay stores and the co-ops. This is a big problem, especially when we want to transfer money outside of our communities. There has to be a resolution about the banking problem within the Territories. We have to improve our economy. A lot of our money is being spent outside the communities because of the lack of facilities. I will be asking about this further because there are other methods of providing banking facilities. This

problem, which was raised by Mr. Lewis , is something I wanted to add to. Thank you.

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Banking Problem Within The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 186

The Speaker

Members' statements. Ms. Mike .

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Abstention By Alcohol And Drug Counsellors

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 186

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to express my continuing concern over the so-called sobriety requirement which the Minister of Social Services has decided to force on alcohol and drug workers throughout the Northwest Territories.

Today I will speak about the content of this policy, in a later statement, I will express my concern about the Minister's implementation process. I have many difficulties with the entire concept, Mr. Speaker. There is no credible research to demonstrate that a policy of this nature actually leads to significant improvement in treatment outcome. The policy cannot be enforced, as neither the Minister nor the project sponsors wish to sneak around spying on workers to see if they are taking a drink.

The policy may be placing alcohol and drug project sponsors in a position where they may eventually become subject to human rights litigation in the courts. Most of all, I am opposed to this because it treats all alcohol and drug workers -- and anyone who takes a social drink from time to time -- as addicts who are incapable of being good role models. This sort of thinking is false and mistaken.

Mr. Speaker, our alcohol and drug project has worked very hard to establish itself as an effective resource agency within the community. The committee has a good working relationship with the addiction counsellors in the community. The standard for staff conduct and performance has been developed and is appropriate for our community.

Mr. Speaker, it has been demoralizing and frustrating for our people in Baffin to have the standards and working environment we established for our community overturned by the current Minister. Later I will have more to say about this process the Minister has used to force his ideas on us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Abstention By Alcohol And Drug Counsellors

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 186

The Speaker

Members' statements. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question O101-12(2): Proposed Park For Lake Harbour

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 186

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Pudlat on February 20, 1992. In reply to your question on the training process for tourism operators in the Baffin Region, the Department of Economic Development and Tourism, in conjunction with Arctic College, has developed a two-level guide training program. Level one courses cover all the universal skills of the tourism industry, including an introduction to tourism, marketing, first aid, camp set-up, trip planning, boat safety, menu preparation, et cetera. This course is also a prerequisite to the level two course.

Level two courses cover more specific industry requirements. These include a course in sports fishing, a course in sports hunting and a course in interpreting natural and cultural resources. All courses are approximately three weeks in length.

Up until 1990, 62 people in the Baffin have successfully completed the level one course, with 38 of these also completing at least one of the level two courses. Today, 67 per cent are working as outfitters and guides throughout the region.

A three-week level one guide training course is planned to be delivered in Pangnirtung between April 13 and May 1. Residents of Lake Harbour have been encouraged to attend, and initial responses from the community have been favourable. Following completion of the mandatory level one course, a level two course in

interpretation is being recommended for delivery out of Lake Harbour during 1993. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question O101-12(2): Proposed Park For Lake Harbour

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 186

The Speaker

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question O105-12(2): Funding For Environmental Surveys, Sanikiluaq

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 186

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This question was asked on February 20 by Mr. Pudlat . It concerns funding to assist the environmental committees and residents of Sanikiluaq to deal with the environmental review of the Great Whale hydroelectric project. The Government of the Northwest Territories, through the Department of Renewable Resources, has provided a total of $25,000 to support the participation of the environmental committee and residents of Sanikiluaq prepare for the environmental review of the Great Whale hydroelectric project.

Specifically, the government has: 1) provided the Sanikiluaq environmental committee with $10,000 in 1990 to send representatives to meetings in Great Whale and Montreal; and 2) contributed $15,000 in the 1991-92 fiscal year to the hamlet of Sanikiluaq to support their involvement in preliminary meetings prior to the public review process and the availability of intervenor funding.

The government has also: 1) committed $15,000 over two years to support the cumulative impact study of the Canadian Arctic Resources Committee, Rawson Academy of Aquatic Sciences and the Sanikiluaq environmental committee. The Sanikiluaq environmental committee will take the lead in examining traditional knowledge of the area; and 2) retained the services of the Rawson Academy of Aquatic Sciences to obtain expert advice on water-related issues.

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Return To Question O105-12(2): Funding For Environmental Surveys, Sanikiluaq

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 186

The Speaker

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question O189-12(2): Highway Patrol Operations

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 186

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to the oral question asked by Mr. Gargan on February 27, 1990, with respect to vehicle accidents in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday, February 26, the day before yesterday, I reported that 73 per cent of all highway accidents occurred in the highway corridors of Highways No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, the Member for Deh Cho followed up on my report and asked me for the absolute numbers of accidents on the highway system.

The most reliable traffic accident data I can quote is for the calendar year 1989. In 1989, there were 995 traffic accidents reported in the Northwest Territories involving property damage over $1000. Of these, 829 occurred within a municipality and 166 took place on the highway system. As I said in the House, 73 per cent of these accidents, or 121, occurred on the Highways No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 corridor.

Although I am less confident with the data for the total number of traffic accidents in 1990 and 1991, the pattern of highway accidents does remain roughly the same as I reported. The highway corridor of Highways No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 accounts for 70 per cent of reported accidents in 1990 and 66 per cent in 1991. Thank you

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Return To Question O189-12(2): Highway Patrol Operations

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 187

The Speaker

Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell , point of order.

Point Of Order

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Return To Question O189-12(2): Highway Patrol Operations

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 187

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

I rise on a point of privilege today. Mr. Speaker, in reviewing the unedited Hansard, I am somewhat at a loss as to why I was cut off yesterday, and under what rule or authority this happened. I know I cannot question the authority of the Speaker, but I would ask that you review page 625, because I feel my fundamental privilege to pose questions in the House has been curtailed without clarification. Thank you.

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Return To Question O189-12(2): Highway Patrol Operations

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 187

The Speaker

I think this is a point of order, not a point of privilege, Mrs. Marie-Jewell . I will review Hansard and give a ruling later on today. Oral questions. Mr. Gargan .

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Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Social Services . Mr. Speaker and honourable Members will remember that on February 13, 1992, I tabled Tabled Document 3-12(2) so that the House would be aware of the resolution passed by the Deh Cho Regional Council which supports the policy respecting the sobriety of alcohol and drug workers.

Some unwarranted criticism of this policy originally came from officials with provincial alcohol and drug administrations in southern Canada. Many of these officials have never been to the Northwest Territories. I realize that senior officials in the department's alcohol and drug division, as well as the community mental health services division, meet regularly with their counterparts in southern Canada. Will the Minister direct his officials to make a report to other alcohol and drug organizations about the success of this important policy? Thank you.

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Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Member for the question because it does raise, in the department's mind as well, the fact that we are embarking on a very serious and positive undertaking. I think it is incumbent upon us to share the results with other persons because there is a lot of perceived controversy over this matter. There are different opinions on it. We certainly will be -- and I have already been -- speaking to Members from the Faculty of Social Services in Calgary on this matter. I will certainly be pleased to continue this dialogue. We will, indeed, share the success of this policy with our counterparts in southern Canada.

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Return To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan .

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Supplementary To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Does the Minister agree with me that the likelihood of a positive treatment outcome is enhanced when alcohol and drug counsellors are able to function effectively as role models to their clients and the community at large?

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Supplementary To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. The response to the initiatives that the department has taken in the alcohol and drug treatment -- for example, the sobriety clause -- has been overwhelming in support. The response from the majority of people who have written to me, telephoned me, and have spoken to me about this, has been very positive. It has always been that role modelling in any arena is very important to the success of a program.

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Further Return To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan .

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Supplementary To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that the Dene of the Deh Cho region have expressed their support for the Minister's sobriety policy through the resolution I tabled on February 13th. I wonder if the Minister could tell this House about the other supportive correspondence he has received from other parts of the Northwest Territories.

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Supplementary To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have received dozens of letters from individuals and groups, and telephone calls and personal communications from people who want to express their support for the clause. Mr. Speaker, I would go so far as to say that the reactions have been in favour, 10 to one, in support of it. Fortunately, the only negative comments, the serious negative criticisms, have come from two communities, Mr. Speaker. The majority of others have been very positive.

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Further Return To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

The Speaker

Oral questions. Last supplementary, Mr. Gargan .

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Supplementary To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 187

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you. During the 11th Assembly the Department of Social Services completed a very comprehensive strategy plan for the delivery of alcohol and drug treatment services. Among other things that the plan proposed, only the communities which have shown progress in resolving the alcohol and drug problems should be targeted for capital development and addiction treatment facilities. Does the Minister agree with me that one of the ways to measure communities' readiness for capital treatment facilities should be the willingness of the local alcohol and drug abuse project to comply with the sobriety clause?

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Supplementary To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

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Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have been involved with the establishment of two facilities in the Territories, so far, in my political life as a Minister. I am involved now with the establishment of a further treatment centre in Hay River that was promoted and supported strongly by my predecessor, Mrs. Marie-Jewell , and with the concurrence of this government. First of all, they have shown a tremendous initiative in those areas, and the results are very positive.

I think we have to look at the results and we have to look at not only the needs in that area but also the drive behind the workers that are going to be delivering these programs. Because without that personal commitment, without that drive, any program is going to fall flat on its face and not succeed to the level that one would expect.

As I said, the other facility that I was involved with in the establishment again, under the initiative of the former government, was the treatment centre that is located on the road near Dettah, and judging by the response of the public to this, this again shows the concern and the active participation to the cause by the workers there, who, by the way, have endorsed this and embraced the sobriety clause without any difficulty. The results, Mr. Speaker, speak for themselves. They have a waiting list of people waiting to go there because they know this is where they can get good treatment.

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Question O193-12(2): Informing Southern Alcohol And Drug Organizations Of Success Of Sobriety Policy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

The Speaker

Oral questions. Ms. Mike .

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Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Social Services regarding the recommendation he has received on his policy requiring alcohol and drug worker sobriety. I understand that this policy arose as a result of a recommendation from the territorial board of management for alcohol and drug services. Can the Minister assure the House that this board of management is presently supportive of the way he is now implementing this sobriety policy?

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Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

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Mr. Whitford .

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Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Absolutely.

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Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

The Speaker

Supplementary, Ms. Mike

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Supplementary To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My supplementary to the Minister of Social Services . Recognizing that there has not been a representative from Baffin Region on the board of management for almost two years, and that there is now no representative from the Keewatin region either, can the Minister inform the House why he did not ensure that there was an opportunity for this board to consider the opinions of the Eastern Arctic with regard to this abstinence policy?

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Supplementary To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

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Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the board was established before I had an opportunity to participate in the selection. I am cognizant of the fact that there are members not there, but I do not think that affects the decisions that the board makes. Mr. Speaker, I made a trip to the Baffin, including Pangnirtung, to speak to anybody that was interested in talking to me at the time. I made it known well in advance there, so they knew I was coming.

Anybody that wanted to speak to me about the sobriety clause had an opportunity to do so, and I am sad to say that BRC, Baffin Regional Council, never made any initiatives or gave any indication that they wanted to speak to me. No one ever said that I was speaking to the wrong people while I was there. Mr. Speaker, the board of management is well balanced in its selection, and if there are vacancies in there, they are not through any intention of this Minister to curtail any input from any region. We will address that when the freeze is off and when we can refill vacancies that are the board.

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Further Return To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

The Speaker

Supplementary, Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Tony keeps stating there are only two communities opposed to this policy in Baffin, which in fact BRC...

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Supplementary To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

The Speaker

Point of order, Mr. Whitford .

Point Of Order

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Supplementary To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

I do not believe it is proper to address me as "Tony."

---Applause

Speaker's Ruling

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Supplementary To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

The Speaker

According to our rules, the Member does have a point of order. The rules say you have to address a Member by his or her surname or constituency; at least in this House, he cannot be called Tony. Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

I will call him Tony Whitford , Minister of Social Services . You keep indicating that there are only two communities that are opposed to this clause. How do you understand BRC? Just as one community? It is an organization representing all 13 communities in the Baffin

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Supplementary To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

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Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recognize that BRC does represent a number of communities in many areas...

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Further Return To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

How many?

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Further Return To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thirteen.

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Further Return To Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Question O194-12(2): Support Of Territorial Board Of Management For Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 188

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Pudlat .

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Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Social Services regarding the drug and alcohol workers in the North. Were there a lot of people who caused your department to disintegrate because there was a lot of alcohol abuse? Did this become a problem, and is that the reason you came up with this clause that disintegrated the Department of Social Services mandate for the social workers in your department? That is my question for the Minister of Social Services .

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Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Minister of Social Services , Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The board of management, who advises the Minister, has monitored very closely the success and delivery of the alcohol and drug treatment program. There were very glaring discrepancies, I guess, in the amount of money that was being spent in some areas, and the occupancy and usage of centres; somewhere down as far as 45 to 50 per cent of use. Through some method of ascertaining, it was determined that people, in order to really go and seek help, had to have confidence in the people who were delivering the program. This was what the decision was based on: by the obvious non-participation by the workers in some cases.

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Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat .

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Supplementary To Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, I raised that question because I wanted to know if there were a lot of employees who were abusing alcohol. I am not just telling people to abstain from drinking, but there has to be a way, especially in the North, to develop these programs. I am sure a lot of people are going along with this, but if this were to become law, I am concerned that you may lose a lot of very good employees if they were caught drinking, even though they may be good at their job. Do you not think you will be losing a lot of employees because of this policy?

This kind of thing can be good both ways, but you have to consider this in different ways. We, as MLAs, have to consider this policy by looking at it in many different ways. My supplementary question is whether or not you are concerned about losing a lot of good employees because of this clause. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O195-12(2): Concern About Resignation Of Employees As A Result Of Sobriety Clause

Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I do not believe we will lose one good employee. I am very confident that an overwhelming majority of alcohol and drug workers are in support of these initiatives. They support them wholeheartedly. There are some, however, that may have agreed to this reluctantly, but they realize that the personal sacrifice they have made is for the better. They have gone on to continue their good work and will participate in this initiative while they are employed there.

Unfortunately, there are others who are going to hold out and will probably be in violation of this initiative, but I am not overly concerned, because I believe that anyone who does this will do it deliberately in order to possibly draw a legal challenge to this. Mr. Speaker, I have not yet received one resignation from any alcohol and drug worker as a direct result of this clause; not one.

---Applause

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Question O195-12(2): Concern Over Resignation Of Employees As Result Of Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Oral questions. Ms. Mike .

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Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

My question is for the Minister of Social Services . From what I understand, there is a group forming in Iqaluit to become an agency for Social Services. However, in my community of Pangnirtung, an alcohol and drug committee was formed during the hamlet election. How are you going to get another group going in Pangnirtung when this committee has been elected by the community?

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Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very pleased to hear that a group has come together in the community of Iqaluit to fill the void that may exist if Tuvvik decides not to participate in this program any further.

Mr. Speaker, the former Minister and I have always said that -- and this government has supported this -- the people that are most concerned and want to see success in the alcohol and drug treatment program will rally to fill a void. I have every confidence that there will be no community in this territory that will not be served by an alcohol and drug counselling service if one decides to shut down. It is an important service, Mr. Speaker, that is needed.

In the community of Iqaluit, a group has met and has selected a board from which we have not yet received an official request for funding. In the community of Pangnirtung, we have not yet received confirmation that they have indeed rejected this clause. We have yet to receive that. The contract has gone over to BRC and has not yet been returned. I extended to them, or I left the door open, until the end of February, which ends tomorrow, that if they chose to support the sobriety clause they would sign this document. They have up until tomorrow to do that, and then I think the door will close. I will wait, then, for the response from the community, which I know will come.

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Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Supplementary, Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Do the policy makers adhere to this sobriety clause, including the cabinet?

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Supplementary To Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The sobriety clause deals with a very specific program. It deals with a very specific group, and that is the extent of it at the moment.

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Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

The Speaker

Supplementary, Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 189

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

The issue here is not so much the sobriety clause. It is the principle. Now, we are talking about role models. The cabinet is a role model to me. Is the cabinet

going to adhere to the policy?

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I cannot answer for each and every Member here, and I do not think I should. I think, every one of us in this House sets an example to the public. The public watches us. The public sees us, not only in the House here, Mr. Speaker, but they also see us on the streets in our communities and they fashion themselves accordingly.

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Further Return To Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Question O196-12(2): Pangnirtung Alcohol And Drug Committee

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask a question of the Minister of Social Services . He indicated that no community would be without an alcohol and drug counsellor, and I know there are somewhat to the tune of 39 or 40 communities that have the availability of alcohol and drug counselling services. Does he intend to expand the services so that they could meet the needs of at least the 60 communities that we have in the North?

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Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I wish we had the resources to meet everybody's needs and everybody's expectations. I think there are some 42 alcohol and drug treatment groups across the Territories. To this point, I think there are only about half a dozen that have yet to submit their 1992-93 requests for funding. There are other communities, however, Mr. Speaker, that want to establish an alcohol and drug treatment program within their communities.

There are a number of considerations to take, of course. There is the ability of the group to really come to grips with the problem in their community, and the ability of the community to pull a group together. I think when these factors are made known -- the department is working with those communities that are requesting the establishment of an alcohol and drug treatment group, working closely to advise them on what to do and how to do it, and we are also advising them the amounts of dollars we have available.

There is always, as we are unfortunately well aware, a shortage of dollars, and it does prevent, perhaps, establishing in each and every community. I may be over-optimistic, but I am very hopeful that at some point in time, Mr. Speaker, all the requests for alcohol and drug treatment groups can be established where there is need.

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Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Recognizing that the intentions are that in the event that we had the resources, and if the community groups gathered together where they wanted to address the alcohol and drug program, is the Minister indicating to this House that where community groups can formulate a group to address alcohol and drug programs and request funding from him, that he does have the funding available? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this point in time we probably have more requests than we have dollars for. I do not have any additional moneys yet; however, Mr. Speaker, if tomorrow rolls around and there is a lack of acceptance by some communities, I think it is going to free up a few more dollars so that we may be able to provide additional funding on a one-time basis to look after some of the very tragic need of these communities to have people go to these treatment centres. There is a desperate cry out there, Mr.

Speaker, for additional dollars for additional treatment, and I am contemplating very seriously that as the door closes on the acceptance of some of these resources, I should redistribute them to the communities that are showing active participation, Mr. Speaker, and support the intent and the spirit of the program.

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Further Return To Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Question O197-12(2): Expansion Of Alcohol And Drug Counselling Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Gargan .

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Question O198-12(2): Legal Questions With Regard To Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you. My question is to the Minister of Social Services . One of the problems that has arisen out of this sobriety clause is with regard to whether or not there is some litigation or some constitutional violation by this clause, and I am sure in order for the government to implement such a policy they must have had legal opinions on whether or not we are, in fact, infringing on rights or whether it is unconstitutional. I would like to ask the Minister whether he has had any opinions with regard to the sobriety clause, and whether there may be some legal questions that have to be addressed with regard to that.

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Question O198-12(2): Legal Questions With Regard To Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O198-12(2): Legal Questions With Regard To Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, there have been many opinions expressed one way or the other on this, and I think it always comes down to the issue of rights, and they quote

chapter and verse of the Constitution and of the Canadian Human Rights Act, and it goes on and on and on. But nowhere have I read where a person has the right to drink. You have rights to many things, but there is nothing in there that says a person has a right to drink. I do not think it is a right. It is more of a privilege, because this government dictates where you can drink. It dictates many things dealing with alcohol. It is, therefore, no longer a fundamental right as is being quoted from these many documents that are referred to, Mr. Speaker.

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Question O198-12(2): Legal Questions With Regard To Sobriety Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Oral questions. Ms. Mike .

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Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Social Services . It might not be a right; it is a privilege. But when you have to extend the sobriety clause to an employee you are getting into the area of invasion of privacy. Do you agree?

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Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 190

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, the department has no intention of invading people's privacy.

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Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Mr. Speaker, it is good to know that the department has no plans to invade individuals' privacy, but how are we going to enforce this policy if one of the employees decides to be a closet drinker?

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Supplementary To Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I certainly hope there are no closet drinkers within the alcohol and drug treatment program. I hope that the people who signed the agreement adhere to the agreement and recognize its benefits much more than its ability to test one Minister's right or one government's right to set conditions in trying to help the people in the North with the very serious problem in the North. I think we all here, Mr. Speaker, recognize the tragic consequences that alcohol has brought on to the people of the Northwest Territories. This department, through the former Minister and former government, has embarked on an undertaking to conquer a very serious problem by trying to convince people that...

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Further Return To Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, point of order.

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Further Return To Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

Point Of Order

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Further Return To Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, since that we on this side cannot ask questions with respect to the former government, I would suggest that the present government be prevented from referring to the former government or the former Minister. Thank you.

---Applause

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Further Return To Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Question O199-12(2): Sobriety Clause Is Invasion Of Privacy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

I will take the point of order under advisement and report back later today. Oral questions. Mr. Gargan .

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Question O200-12(2): Support For Native Canadians As A Distinct Society

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs . The Government Leader has indicated that Mr. Kakfwi will be absent on March 3rd and 4th to attend the conference of provincial/territorial Ministers responsible for aboriginal affairs. I do not know what is on the agenda. A storm has arisen in Toronto at the constitutional conference about the request that aboriginal people should be recognized as forming a distinct society within the constitutional framework which divides Canada.

The National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations has rightly and properly indicated that Canada's native people cannot accept Quebec, being constituted as a distinct society as long as it does not recognize that we do too. Apparently, some of the provincial leaders in Quebec are regrettably unable to accept this position.

Will the Minister indicate to this House today, as the Northwest Territories Minister of Aboriginal and Intergovernmental Affairs , whether or not he supports the legitimate request of native Canadians to be recognized as a distinct society within the Constitution of Canada? Thank you.

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Question O200-12(2): Support For Native Canadians As A Distinct Society

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

The Speaker

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question O200-12(2): Support For Native Canadians As A Distinct Society

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 191

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

The argument went on to suggest that because of the principles that moved aboriginal people to support Quebec, they should give the aboriginal people of Canada the same type of support in that they, too, are a very distinct people and that this should be reflected in the Constitution.

The controversy erupted on this issue because of the wording. It was felt that Quebec has claimed ownership to those two words, "distinct society," in the Constitution of Canada. Distinct society is reserved for Quebec. Quebecers were very insistent that that should apply only to Quebec, and if aboriginal people should seek recognition, I guess, of their own distinctness, as Zeebeedee Nungak said, then we should look for our own words.

The original intent, at least for many of us there, was just to line up in the media to get the message across to Canadians that the very reasons why there would be a move to support Quebec in its fight to survive and to promote its identity, were that the same types of principles should move them to support aboriginal people as well.

From there, I think all of us sort of separated company. Some of the leaders said that they did not want to get into a fight with Quebec. They did not want to distract from the main issue, which was to get constitutional recognition of the inherent right to self-government in the Constitution. They felt, for instance, in

section 35 of the Constitution that recognizes aboriginal rights and treaty rights, that if the inherent right to self-government was inserted in there that it would be very, very, very strongly implicit that aboriginal people are, in fact, distinct in the Constitution, and that it would only be a secondary reserve support to put another line somewhere in the Constitution, in the Canada clause, for instance, to say that aboriginal people are also distinct.

I think people felt that the word "distinct," particularly "society," is not one that should be used for aboriginal people. We are not societies; we are nations and first peoples. That is, basically, where we ended up.

As a participant, my own comment at that time was that I am not hung up on wording. I did not think we all were. It is something that is going to be resolved at the upcoming talks. At the meetings next Monday and Tuesday, the Ministers have agreed to meet, only because we found the federal government somewhat lacking in enthusiasm to call aboriginal Ministers together in the wake of the Oka crisis, and in the absence of any forum for us, as territorial and provincial leaders, to have discussions about how to address aboriginal issues. We did not want to get into a situation where we were communicating by mail.

There were court cases that were coming up, and we thought we should share those, at least on an informal level. We should talk about the big feud that we all have about how clear we can get it, for instance, in claims agreements, about what the responsibilities of the federal government are. Especially in the areas of costs, as opposed to provincial and territorial governments, and the delivery of programs and services, to see how we can all brag or be ashamed of ourselves about how poorly we are doing in those areas.

So those were the original reasons for the agenda. Ontario took the lead in calling for it. As a government, we hosted an official meeting here last summer that was preparing the way for this Ministers' meeting that is going to happen next week. The federal government and Quebec will not be attending, but everybody else will be there. Thank you.

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Question O200-12(2): Support For Native Canadians As A Distinct Society

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Social Services . Earlier today, the Minister stated that he did not receive one single resignation from any alcohol and drug worker. I am glad that he did not, but I am kind of surprised. The question is: Who do these people work for, yourself? Or do they work for the individual drug and alcohol centres or societies?

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Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Minister of Social Services , Mr. Whitford .

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Return To Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

I believe they work for the society that delivers this program.

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Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Fred Koe

Inuvik

If they resign, why would they advise you?

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Supplementary To Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what goes on in people's minds, but I am sure that if there was something that was going to be affecting the program, either positively or negatively, the society would inform the department and the department would inform me.

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Further Return To Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Fred Koe

Inuvik

How many people have resigned from alcohol and drug centres in the Northwest Territories since the Minister put the abstinence policy in place?

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Supplementary To Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, to my knowledge today at this moment in time, I am not aware of one.

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Question O201-12(2): Drug And Alcohol Workers Work For Societies

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources , and it is in relation to the Government Leader 's statement today where the Minister will be attending a national forest congress to ratify our national forest strategy. Mr. Speaker, the constituency I represent, I am told, has 60 per cent of the forests in the Northwest Territories, and I have always been concerned about it.

As you know, the Liard/Nahanni Valley resource management -- there is an interim committee being set up to mutually look at the land and try to shape what happens on the land, and try to maybe eventually involve an input of community members from that area, so there is a great concern for the valley. I want to know what this national forest congress is and what this national forest strategy is, because I would like to know if it is going to have an effect on the forests in the area I represent. Mahsi.

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Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Minister of Renewable Resources , Mr. Ningark .

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Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You wanted a reason why I decided to attend the Canadian Council on Forestry meeting in Ottawa. As the Member, and every Member of this House, knows, where I come from we do not have any trees, and this is new to me. I would like to go there and inform myself of forestry management within the Territories and within the country. Also, forestry management is very important to the western part of the Territories. It is part of the economy.

If I am not informed on forestry management, then I am not going to be in a position to speak for the people and to this very important forestry management which people from the western part of the Territories rely on for their economic well-being. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .

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Supplementary To Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Will the Minister provide me with the information on the national forest strategy? Mahsi.

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Supplementary To Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Mr. Ningark .

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Further Return To Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I will provide the Member with the paper. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Question O202-12(2): National Forest Strategy

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Pudlat .

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Question O203-12(2): Lack Of Information To Communities Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 192

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) This is an excellent question period, Mr. Speaker. I have a further question to the Minister of Social Services . First of all, I want to say that it seems there was a lack of information distributed to the communities concerning the abstinence clause. It seems they were not provided with this; in fact the, societies involved were not aware of this abstinence clause being in force.

This is a fairly recent piece of information for myself, and on top of that you have to have committees for dealing with alcohol and drug problems in the communities, and on top of that you seem to have other separate committees and employees reporting in different directions. Also, since this is very important for our future, we have to set role models, not just concerning

alcohol-related problems but for other things, and we seem to have a problem whereby funding is being held back as long as the abstinence clause is an issue. There seems to be lack of information.

I think part of the problem lies with lack of information concerning abstinence for employees. Now, because of that, we are asking the Minister of Social Services , should this policy be enforced? If so, it should be distributed as information well in advance before being pushed forward? The employees of the alcohol and drug committees have been informed that if they do not sign an abstinence clause, funding will be cut back. There should have been more information and consultation, in my opinion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question O203-12(2): Lack Of Information To Communities Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

The Speaker

Was there a question in there, Mr. Pudlat ? Mr. Whitford .

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Question O203-12(2): Lack Of Information To Communities Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was going through my notes as the honourable Member was speaking. This is not a current issue, Mr. Speaker. It is something that began in January, 1990, and subsequently, in January, 1991. Again, there was more information being transmitted to the alcohol and drug treatment committees through their boards. It was not until spring of last year that this clause was inserted. There have been two or three adjournments or extensions to the signing of these agreements. Countless letters have been sent to organizations such as the Baffin Regional Council, and others, dealing with this issue.

It is not something that I feel has had a lack of information. Certainly, the department has endeavoured to assure people of this. It came to the attention of the House in November. Again, it is incumbent upon people to relay this information to those concerned.

I certainly feel that there has been a lot of opportunity for communities to express their concerns and deal with this matter. The department has gone out of its way to extend the deadlines for these. I think the final line in the sand was drawn on February 2, 1992. Even then, the hold-out communities of Iqaluit and Pangnirtung have a new agreement before them now. They have until tomorrow to get on board or get off. I think enough communication has taken place, and I think people fully understand the reasons behind this; thus, the necessity for the sobriety clause and the action the department is taking.

I cannot see anything that indicates to me that no community has been without communication or that this communication has been deliberately or otherwise not given to the community to review. This has been a year and half process already, Mr. Speaker.

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Question O203-12(2): Lack Of Information To Communities Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Pudlat .

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Question O203-12(2): Lack Of Information To Communities Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize now that it was formed in 1990, but I did not become aware of it until 1991. The people I now represent, as of 1991-92, probably had this information in 1990, but I did not receive any information regarding the abstinence clause until 1991. This is why I asked that question. I will not be asking any further questions to the Minister of Social Services . Thank you.

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Question O203-12(2): Lack Of Information To Communities Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

The Speaker

Oral questions. Ms. Mike .

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Question O204-12(2): Lack Of Community Consultation Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

All the communities in the Baffin Region understand the purpose of this clause. Generally, they agree with it. The objection is that, for example, in Pangnirtung, the committee already had a by-law to deal with their problem employees if they had any. To have this kind of policy without any proper consultation taking place prior to implementing this policy is where the objection lies, not with the policy itself. There was a lack of consultation in the way in which the process was carried out.

Social Services' mandate is to look after social needs, and the Pangnirtung committee members have very high self-esteem. But, I do not think it is the mandate of Social Services to knock off self-esteem on the members on the alcohol committees. Would the Minister get back to these two communities and get the proper recourse on a consultation basis, so that misunderstanding will discontinue?

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Question O204-12(2): Lack Of Community Consultation Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O204-12(2): Lack Of Community Consultation Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not think the policy has, in its objectives, any desire to strip anybody of their self-esteem. While I visited the Baffin I took every opportunity to listen very carefully to the concerns of the two communities that were there, and I was encouraged by the amount of involvement that people had in the alcohol and drug treatment program.

Mr. Speaker, while I was in Pangnirtung I was additionally pleased to be in a community that had already decided, on its own, that alcohol was a very serious problem, and the community itself had gone out of its way to make the community of Pangnirtung dry by passing the necessary regulations to prohibit liquor from coming into the community, to avoid all of the social problems that would result from it, and to lessen the burden that was being placed upon the alcohol and drug workers, and the people who were suffering from the ravages of alcohol; not only the people at present, but the future people too.

All these were very encouraging when I heard people saying these things and that they were taking positive action.

Mr. Speaker, some people there were supportive of this policy, but for one reason or another they were not able to come out publicly and state that. I am encouraged to know that in at least one community a decision is very near at hand. In fact, Tuvvik will not sign this clause. They will disband, and another group has come up to take its place. I said this while I was there, that any community would not let something go on unaddressed and that the department, in its policy, is not attempting to take away self-esteem.

The enhancement of any program is our desire. I have heard more comments about the low wages that they get than the fact that they are not allowed to drink while on the job or while they are working for that committee. I think that is a far more serious concern among alcohol and drug workers than is the sobriety clause, Mr. Speaker.

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Question O204-12(2): Lack Of Community Consultation Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 193

The Speaker

The time for question period has expired.

Item 6, written questions. Written questions.

Item 7, returns to written questions.

Item 8, replies to Opening Address.

Item 9, petitions. Petitions. Mr. Antoine .

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Question O204-12(2): Lack Of Community Consultation Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

I do not have a petition, but I would like to get unanimous consent to return to oral questions.

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Question O204-12(2): Lack Of Community Consultation Re Abstinence Clause

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

The Speaker

Unanimous consent has been requested to return to Item 5, oral questions. Are there any nays? There are no nays. We are back in oral questions. Ms. Mike .

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Question O205-12(2): Commitment Of Minister To Meet With Baffin Regional Council Re Abstinence Clause

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to my question to the Minister of Social Services . I was happy to hear the Minister saying that the agencies should understand what the purpose of this policy is. They do understand, but where the communication breaks is, your department does not understand and is not willing to listen to the concerns that have been raised In the last six months; not just Pangnirtung but through BRC. Will the Minister make a point of meeting with BRC officials in the next month or so?

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Question O205-12(2): Commitment Of Minister To Meet With Baffin Regional Council Re Abstinence Clause

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O205-12(2): Commitment Of Minister To Meet With Baffin Regional Council Re Abstinence Clause

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Yes, Mr. Speaker. I will make a commitment, I guess. I do not have any money to travel, but I will try to find some money to travel to the Baffin to meet with BRC. However, Mr. Speaker, the deadline is fast approaching for the extension. The extension expires tomorrow on that clause, and there will be no new extension of it. However, I will meet and listen to the concerns that the BRC has.

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Question O205-12(2): Commitment Of Minister To Meet With Baffin Regional Council Re Abstinence Clause

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question O206-12(2): Application Of Sobriety Clause To All GNWT Staff Involved With Alcohol And Drug Programs

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to ask the Minister of Social Services whether or not the sobriety clause is applicable to all of the staff of the Government of the Northwest Territories that are involved with the alcohol and drug program. That was a point that he made, so if I could ask that particular question.

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Question O206-12(2): Application Of Sobriety Clause To All GNWT Staff Involved With Alcohol And Drug Programs

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

The Speaker

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O206-12(2): Application Of Sobriety Clause To All GNWT Staff Involved With Alcohol And Drug Programs

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No.

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Question O206-12(2): Application Of Sobriety Clause To All GNWT Staff Involved With Alcohol And Drug Programs

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Question O207-12(2): Sale Of Staff Housing In Smaller Communities

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Personnel regarding a statement he made yesterday on selling staff houses to people who occupy them. He gave an answer to my question yesterday in which he said there would be a policy in place by June. By that I wonder if he meant that the people in the small communities, for example Fort Simpson, would be able to start buying their homes, if they want to, by June. Mahsi.

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Question O207-12(2): Sale Of Staff Housing In Smaller Communities

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

The Speaker

Minister of Personnel , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question O207-12(2): Sale Of Staff Housing In Smaller Communities

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 194

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I think I was trying to indicate that we do not know what we will be telling communities like Fort Simpson. We do not have anything to tell them now. What I am hoping is that in June, when we deliver our long-term housing strategy, communities like Fort Simpson will have their questions answered. What do we do with the government units in that community? That is the commitment we are making here. I hope it will be sufficiently addressed in that strategy. Thank you.

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Question O207-12(2): Sale Of Staff Housing In Smaller Communities

Revert To Item 5: Oral Questions

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