Debates of Feb. 26th, 2003

This is page numbers 331 - 364 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Family Violence Legislation

Family Violence LegislationHarmonization Of Income Assistance And Social Housing Programs

Education Week 2003

Healing The Problems Of Families And Youth

Need For A Northern Academic Research Centre

Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Family Violence Protection Legislation

Diamond Jenness Handbell Choir

Harmonization Of Income Assistance And Social Housing Programs

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Aurora College Research Institutes

Funding For Student Support Services

Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Report Of The Business Program Review Committee

Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Funding For Student Support Services

Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Permits For Fuel Wood Harvesting

GNWT Position On Staff Housing

Committee Report 7-14(6): Report On The Draft Main Estimates Review Process

Motion To Receive Committee Report 7-14(6)

Bill 2:

An Act To Amend The Territorial Parks Act

Tabled Document 24-14(6): Child Of The North: A Nurtured Child - A Neglected Child

Tabled Document 25-14(6): Deh Gah Got'ie First Nations Petition On Aboriginal And Treaty Housing Rights

Tabled Document 26-14(6): Letter From Deh Gah Got'ie First Nations Chief Samuel Gargan Regarding The New Rent Scale

Tabled Document 27-14(6): Deh Cho First Nations Leadership Resolution Regarding The Housing Crisis

Tabled Document 28-14(6): Deh Gah Got'ie First Nations Resolution Regarding The Housing Crisis

Family Violence Protection Act

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Bill 3: Appropriation Act, 2003-2004

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Roger Allen , Honourable Jim Antoine , Mr. Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Mr. Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Mr. McLeod , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Nitah , Honourable Jake Ootes , Mr. Roland , Honourable Vince Steen

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-- Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 331

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Thank you. Before going to orders of the day, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize a new clerk at the Table today, Mr. Andrew Stewart.

---Applause

Andrew is taking up duties at the Table which will add to his experience as an assistant committee clerk as he has been working for the Special Committee on the Review of the Official Languages Act and on the Implementation of Self-Government and the Sunset Clause.

---Applause

For those Members who were with us at the community feast and dance in Fort McPherson this summer, this is not the Andrew Stewart from Fort McPherson, but the Andrew Stewart from Yellowknife.

---Laughter

Join me in welcoming Mr. Stewart to the Clerk's Table.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements.

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Minister's Statement 23-14(6): Family Violence Legislation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 331

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak to the matter of family violence legislation in the Northwest Territories.

This has been and is an issue of importance to each and every Member of this Legislature as evidenced most recently by our unanimous endorsement of the protocol agreement to support the development of an action plan on family violence in the NWT presented by the Status of Women. It is important to all of us in the House, and after hearing the Members' statements, I believe it is important to many, many people of the Northwest Territories.

As a government, we must act and we, as Members, must act together to develop and pass effective family violence legislation within the term of this Legislative Assembly. We must also strive to ensure that, within the limited time available to achieve this, the legislation is relevant to our jurisdiction, works for our people and communities and represents the input from important stakeholders dealing with and affected by this issue.

Mr. Speaker, Members of this House have referred to the legislation developed and relied upon in other Canadian jurisdictions and indicated their approval of that legislation on behalf of the people of the NWT. The legislation of and the experience in other jurisdictions can be very useful as a tool and will be relied upon in development of NWT legislation.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of issues which must be addressed through timely consultations and policy development, and those include the definition of family violence, the remedies we include in such legislation, determining who can apply for relief under the legislation and the best delivery model for the NWT. The department plans to conduct its consultations and start its policy work immediately with a view to determining these questions. Our goal, Mr. Speaker, is to ensure that we develop legislation that works for all NWT residents, whether they live in large centres or small isolated communities, whether they have RCMP or not.

Mr. Speaker, this work will require the cooperation of all Members of this House to assist in ensuring that we produce

an act and a process that most appropriately meets the needs of victims of family violence. We are committed to moving ahead with this legislation as soon as possible.

There will be costs associated with the development and the implementation of this legislation, the extent of which have not been fully determined. The proper delivery of this legislation will involve the RCMP, shelter workers, social workers, court staff, judges and justices of the peace. Additional staff may be required to properly implement and deliver the legislation.

The process is not a simple one, given the complexity of family violence and the diversity of our people and our jurisdictions. However, we can do it and we can do it well, Mr. Speaker, if we have the cooperation and assistance of all Members of this House. The overwhelming sense I have gathered over the past weeks in this House is that the government has your approval and can expect your assistance. What I have heard in this House, Mr. Speaker, is an overwhelming commitment to family violence legislation and on that basis I will commit to introducing a bill at the June sitting of the 14th Legislative Assembly.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 23-14(6): Family Violence Legislation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 331

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho .

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Minister's Statement 23-14(6): Family Violence LegislationHarmonization Of Income Assistance And Social Housing Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 332

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to, once again, voice my concerns over the harmonization strategy. This initiative was introduced and adopted by the 13th Assembly and I have watched with great interest as this program has been deferred, time and time again. It's been changed. It has been transferred from one Minister to another and, in the end, I was hoping it would go away. However, it's very evident that this government is determined to implement this program April 1st of this year.

Mr. Speaker, I question the intent of this initiative. It's certainly not intended to improve the health and conditions in our communities. It is not designed to raise revenues for this government. It is not part of the seniors' strategy. My understanding of this program is that it was to harmonize the income support program with the social housing program. If that was the goal, then why are the seniors and the students rolled into the mix? Most of the seniors and students live on a fixed monthly income, an income that is usually accounted for before they receive it. Mr.

Speaker, I hear from the NWT housing staff that seniors across the North are welcoming and embracing this program. If that's the case, I ask why are seniors in the small communities complaining about this new initiative?

Mr. Speaker, the Minister promised in this House there would be a clear communication strategy and an implementation schedule. I have copies of letters sent out to the seniors in my riding as part of the communication strategy. The letter simply states that a new scale is being introduced April 1st. The new maximum rent is at a certain level and on April 1st, the rent would be calculated in a different manner and it gives another lump sum. It doesn't indicate the actual rent that will be charged. The Housing Corporation may have met the letter of the law by mailing out notices of intent of the potential rent increases, but they sure didn't meet the intent of the law.

I contacted every band and municipal council in the NWT, Mr. Speaker, and 87 percent have responded by saying they are not familiar with this program and they needed more information. Fifty-five percent have requested that this whole initiative be abandoned. Mr. Speaker, I was recently reminded that the NWT Housing Corporation was initially formed in the early 1970s under the name of the Mackenzie Valley...Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Minister's Statement 23-14(6): Family Violence LegislationHarmonization Of Income Assistance And Social Housing Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 332

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Do I hear any nays? You have unanimous consent, Mr. McLeod .

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Minister's Statement 23-14(6): Family Violence LegislationHarmonization Of Income Assistance And Social Housing Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 332

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and colleagues. Mr. Speaker, it was recently that the NWT Housing Corporation was initially formed in the early 1970s under the name Mackenzie Valley Housing and their mandate was to deliver housing to Aboriginal and low income families. We have certainly deviated from that mandate. Mr. Speaker, once again I ask that the Minister responsible table a copy of the harmonization strategy in order for us to debate this issue in this Assembly and publicly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 23-14(6): Family Violence LegislationHarmonization Of Income Assistance And Social Housing Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 332

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Education Week 2003

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 332

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize Education Week being held this week across the NWT. Mr. Speaker, I am particularly encouraged by the fact that this year, Education Week is an interdepartmental endeavor between the departments of Education, Culture and Employment, Health and Social Services, Municipal and Community Affairs, Sport North and the new Recreation and Parks Association.

The theme for Education Week is "Choose to Move...Move for Health." This is an example for residents of all ages throughout the NWT that productive choices with regard to fitness can be made and how we can all benefit from the effects of being more physically active.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to commend the Honourable Jake Ootes for the various initiatives introduced by his department over the last year. However, Mr. Speaker, more work needs to be done. I would like to remind the Minister and his department officials of what should be their prime focus, that being our students. We should never lose sight of that fact, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, at this time, I would also like to pay tribute to the parent volunteers that spend countless hours in our classrooms. The parent volunteers contribute greatly to our schools and I don't know that we do enough to recognize their efforts.

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to hear of the $2.8 million investment announced in our budget to lower pupil/teacher ratios and to raise student support services in the classroom where it is needed most. We need to be diligent and continue this path in order to provide our students with the quality of education they so deserve. While it is all nice and good, Mr. Speaker, to recognize Education Week once a year, we need to be diligent everyday to remember that we, as a government, need to focus our efforts in the classroom, so the students can directly benefit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Education Week 2003

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 332

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Healing The Problems Of Families And Youth

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 332

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise and speak to the issue of children in the North. Mr. Speaker, that's not something that we go into great detail in the North with the problems we have with our families, or crime rates and what we sometimes find unfortunately in our communities in the North.

Mr. Speaker, today I want to raise the issue of what we are doing as a government or what we can be doing. Not only that, the government deals with programs and services trying to fix people from the outside. Mr. Speaker, a lot of times I have come to work with individuals in my community trying to help them through our programs and services, whether it's income support, health and social services, education, but a lot of times we are trying to fix people and work with people from the outside. There is little that is being done from the inside and many people, Mr.

Speaker, would say that's an issue that's got to be separate. Government, state, as it can be called, and religion should be separate. Many people will say that.

Mr. Speaker, what I found with our programs and services in the social area, all we've done is tried to work with people from an outside perspective, not dealing with them from the inside or their spirit, Mr. Speaker. That's why today I would like to raise awareness from work done by Dr. Clair Schnupp, and Mrs. Clara Schnupp. Dr. Clair Schnupp has his doctorate of philosophy and Master of Arts. His wife has a bachelor's and master's degree. They are both members of the Association of Professional Christian Counsellors and they've traveled the Arctic for 42 years, Mr. Speaker, working with youth and family.

In a stretch from Nuuk, Greenland, to Nome, Alaska, they have met with many families and individuals, dealing with the situations that they find themselves in. Dr. Schnupp had talked to me a few months back and asked if I would consider looking at some of the work he's done. It's come to a point now where he's put it forward in a final pamphlet and he's seeking to try to put it out there to raise awareness.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue my statement.

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Healing The Problems Of Families And Youth

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 333

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? You have unanimous consent.

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Healing The Problems Of Families And Youth

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 333

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, the work that's been done in this pamphlet is the cold, stark reality of what happens from time to time in our communities. It's something that, as I have become aware, is difficult to try to deal with, to try to put a finger on because government deals with programs and services that deal with levels of education, with health care, things that we can try to fix from the outside and it's difficult, Mr. Speaker, to speak to these issues because a lot of us when we come through life have run into our own problems, but have difficulty reaching to the inside, and as I said earlier, to the spirit side of the person.

We've heard lots about traditional knowledge and trying to go back to some of those strengths. I agree, we must do more in that area. I think it has to start at a community or personal level. Hopefully this work that's done, which I will table later today, will raise awareness. It's difficult to deal with in some of the issues, but I think it needs to be done to try to raise the awareness of individuals in the North, to see how we can further deal with these issues.

As we heard in the Minister's statement earlier about putting family violence legislation forward, that's a piece of the puzzle and an important piece. On those things we need to continue to work. With that, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Healing The Problems Of Families And Youth

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 333

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Need For A Northern Academic Research Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 333

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in debate of the budget for Education, Culture and Employment, much of the discussion has centred on various topics about Aurora College. I would like to speak again about what has been on my mind lately, as well as that of some of my constituents. This has to do with the long-term vision, but I would really like to see Aurora College becoming a fully accredited university in the not-too-distant future. One of my constituents even wrote to tell me that in fact there is land set aside for such a university north of Frame Lake.

Mr. Speaker, we have so much happening in the North that should be of academic interest. People from all over the world come here already, not just to admire the aurora borealis, but to study the wonders and sciences of it, yet we do not have a research centre studying it. We also have had teams of scientists and engineers studying cold weather technology, whether it be for automobiles, road building or construction of houses. We have been a testing ground for all these, as well as an importer of the technology. We could become a world leader in this regard.

The mineral development in the gold and diamonds of modern times is only the tip of the iceberg in the way of mineral and geological findings, studies of interest to academia. I recently watched a program on TV where a team of geologists and engineers from all over the world converged on the Inuvik area because that's where the most pure form of frozen gas samples can be had, but they spent much of their time talking about how excited they were to send these samples to their colleagues in the U.S., German, Russian and Japanese universities.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had an academic research centre in a university setting right here where these samples could be analyzed and written about, so that the scholars would fly here to learn and spread the knowledge out into the world?

The topic of interest for academic research doesn't just end there, Mr. Speaker. There are a lot of unique and groundbreaking discoveries going on here politically and socially as well. The evolution of our government and the unique challenges we face in our consensus system could only benefit from political scientists who enjoy the privilege of independent minds and affiliations, not from the southern perspective, but from the intimate knowledge they would have from living and teaching here.

We are also on the frontier of developing governance models as a number of self-government agreements are becoming a reality more and more everyday. I have no doubt that a lot of knowledge can be had in this area that would contribute greatly to the age old world dialogue about how and why a society chooses to govern itself the way it does. The list is endless. Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement? Thank you.

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Need For A Northern Academic Research Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 333

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? You have unanimous consent, Ms. Lee .

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Need For A Northern Academic Research Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 333

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The list for academic research is endless and it should be noted that a good critical economic study is not just for making big bucks in ivory towers. It is an essential element of good public policy making in civil society. It is my hope that our government and college officials and leaders from all over the North would work together to achieve this goal in the not-too-distant future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Need For A Northern Academic Research Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 334

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 334

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this being Education Week, I would like to talk about the challenges teachers face in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, in Monday's paper, an

article titled "Searching for Solutions" talks about how the Department of Education, Culture and Employment hired a consultant to do surveys with teachers and the Teachers' Association to determine if housing is an issue in their becoming teachers in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, the results wouldn't be completed until mid-March, and by that time this House will be likely adjourned.

But, I've said it, Members of this House have said it, people have told us that housing is a major issue when it comes to educators coming and staying in the North. We all know a comfort level has to be reached between the student and the teacher for a student to have optimum learning capacity. But they have an average turn around of five years and, in some cases, every year you see numerous teachers resign because of housing shortages. We know they are living together. Teachers are forced to live together, live in the schools, in health centres and in churches. These are not places where people are intended to live and we should not expect our teachers to live in those environments.

Knowing the facts of this housing shortage, I'm going to be asking the Minister what his department is doing in partnership with other departments to address this very huge issue.

We need good teachers to have good students. We need good students to prepare for the economic realities of today and tomorrow. In my constituency, the graduation rate leaves something to be desired. In Lutselk'e we haven't had a graduate in a long time and a lot of this is a result of the high turnover of teachers.

With new relationships being built, even when they get here and agree to the cost of their units, often because of the new policy and regulations that are regulating the housing market, a person could increase the rent and falsify the information to the teachers and by the time they get here, what are they going to do, go back? Mr. Speaker, I will be asking the Minister some questions on this issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 334

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Family Violence Protection Legislation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 334

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to take the opportunity today to respond to the Minister of Justice , Minister Allen 's statement on family violence legislation because I think it is important to do so, Mr. Speaker.

I think what we've seen here today is a perfect example that our form of government, the consensus form of government, can work, and the next time somebody asks me about consensus and its advantages. I'm going to point to today because I truly believe that what we've seen here is an example of a Minister who understands, Mr. Speaker, what leadership is all about and has always been one that said, listen, I really want to get this job done, I want to roll up my sleeves and do good things, my door is open and if you have suggestions and ideas and priorities that you want to see hit the floor, come and talk to me.

This Minister understood that family violence legislation was a key priority for this House and he is willing to work with us in order to get that done.

There are a million and one reasons why this might not have happened. There are consultation concerns, given the amount of time we have left, Mr. Speaker. There are resource concerns that will require additional resources. There is no shortage of reasons why this could have failed but this Minister wouldn't let it fail and I think that really isn't much of a surprise, given this Minister's track record.

We look at the Human Rights Act. This Minister was key in delivering on that piece of legislation and he got done by being willing to work with the standing committee behind the scenes, making sure that if we had suggestions coming from the public, that we were going to make this thing better. Well, he was going to get them done and get them implemented.

If you look at housing bridge financing, a recent program, the Minister was able to get the program raised from $10 million to $30 million, but still the criteria weren't adequate to allow people to access this money. A number of Members sat down with the Minister, raised this point and he said, well, you know I didn't come up with this program because I didn't want it to work so let's sit down and talk about how we can make this thing work. He has done that and now when we look at family violence legislation, he said, and I will quote, "We can do it and we can do it well, Mr.

Speaker, if we have the cooperation and assistance of all Members of this House." Mr. Speaker, that is leadership. I think Minister Allen is demonstrating that here for us today. I am very proud of the work he is doing and I hope my colleagues will join me in thanking him.

---Applause

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Family Violence Protection Legislation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 334

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Diamond Jenness Handbell Choir

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 334

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to tell you about a unique group of students that together make a sound that you rarely hear. These students are the Diamond Jenness Handbell Choir from Hay River, and the delightful sound is the ringing of handbells.

In 1997, a trio of staff members from Diamond Jenness School in Hay River had a dream: what if they could purchase musical instruments of a different sort and create a new club in the school. With a lot of hard work, dedication and fundraising, handbells were added to the music department of DJ. There has been an active group of young musicians ringing the bells ever since.

The DJ Handbell Choir has the distinction of being the only one of its kind in the Northwest Territories. They have gained appreciation and overwhelming reviews for their performances, exhibiting their skills and talent. They have performed at schools, the Woodland Manor, extended care at the hospital and for various community events such as Remembrance Day services, Festival of Trees, Canada Day celebrations and numerous other events.

Since 1997, these young choir members, with the support of the community, have set many goals and attained them. Recently, they have added a third octave of bells to their existing equipment and today they continue to rehearse and practice to perfect their skills. With the leadership of their director, Jennifer Tweedie, the Handbell Choir is planning to attend the We've Got Rhythm conference in London, Ontario in May. As the title suggests, this conference will feature the timeless music of George and Ira Gershwin. What a great experience for this young choir!

I have just received notice today that the Minister of Youth , the Honourable Roger Allen , has provided support for the Handbell Choir to attend this conference and they will be receiving $5,000 towards this initiative and I would like to thank the Minister for this contribution and for his recognition of the creativity and enthusiasm of these young Northern students.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that the DJ Handbell Choir will be here, in the Legislative Assembly in the Great Hall, tomorrow. They are driving from Hay River to Yellowknife today, and will arrive here this evening eager to entertain with their handbells tomorrow. They will be playing from 12:45 to 1:15 and I urge you to either stay for lunch or return early so that you can be sure to hear them when they begin their program. Please join me in welcoming them tomorrow as they come to the Great Hall. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Diamond Jenness Handbell Choir

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 335

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Harmonization Of Income Assistance And Social Housing Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 335

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a significant amount of time and energy has been spent by this government on the harmonization of public housing and income support programs. Harmonization is a word which indicates agreements. In reality, there is little agreement that the proposed changes will create harmony for the clients of these programs. As my colleague, Mr. McLeod , points out, there are faults with this initiative, particularly for seniors, and students as well. The rental scale is not based on the size or the condition of a house or the size of a family.

The sole criteria is income, regardless if the income has to support two people or 10 people living under one roof. I am concerned for seniors and for students. The proposed guidelines say that seniors and students currently in public housing will not have their rent increased past $400. New applicants will have to pay rent based on their income, whether they are living in one bedroom, two bedrooms or three bedrooms.

Right now, for the first time, Treaty 11 scholarships are being taxed. Students will be assessed on money that is already clawed back by the federal government. It seems as though this government is clawing back every penny they can from the people who are most in need. We provide public housing as a way of assisting people on low incomes, but it doesn't seem as though we are helping them get into their homes because we are using their arrears against them. A person with arrears is disqualified from housing programs when they might benefit the most from these programs.

Options are available. By taking arrears and consolidating them into their mortgages and loans, people with a higher income would be better off owning their own home than if a higher percentage were simply taken off their rent. This is the situation which exists under harmonization.

Instead of harmonization, it might be better just altering existing policies and regulations. This would be simpler and fairer to all clients. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Harmonization Of Income Assistance And Social Housing Programs

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 335

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 335

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I have the privilege of recognizing two students from the Western Arctic Leadership Program in Fort Smith. They are Lance Lennie, Grade 12 from Deline; and, Daylyn Kakfwi, Grade 11, Fort Good Hope. I would like to welcome them to the Assembly.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 335

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Welcome to the Legislative Assembly. Mr. Premier .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 335

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize my wife, Marie Wilson, in the gallery.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 335

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Welcome. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. McLeod .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 335

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize my two daughters, Robyn and Shawna. Welcome.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 335

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Ms. Lee .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 335

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I saw a whole bunch of legislative staff here, but maybe they were here to see Mr. Stewart. I would like to recognize my constituent Laurie Golchert. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 335

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

At this time, I would also like to recognize Joyce McLeod, Mike's better half. Welcome to the House.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 335

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Roland .

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Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a question that will be directed to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . Initially, I didn't have this planned, with Ms. Lee 's comments about a research institute in the NWT and that our government doesn't have one, I just want to make sure that we still have one. In Inuvik we have, with the Aurora College, a research institute and there is probably another one. I just want to confirm with the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , as it was an area raised in the past, that they are continuing with that program in Inuvik and that they are going to be enhancing what they do there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we do have a research institute run under the Aurora College and we have two locations, one in Fort Smith and one in Inuvik. They are very active, both of them, and they will continue to be active. They do naturally run on budgets that are somewhat restricted. We would certainly like to see improvement in that. However, there is always the challenge of accessing additional funding. They are involved in many, many programs, Mr. Speaker, including the Arctic project on the ice with captured gas under the polar ice. That's been a very interesting project for the research institute, amongst many others, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Return To Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I must admit, Ms. Lee raised a number of other initiatives that would be good for this government to proceed with. Are there any other initiatives that they are looking at to try to enhance the activities of the research institute? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the federal budget of last week, Minister Manley - I got that right today - announced that there was $125 million per year that they are looking to provide to grants and councils. That's going mostly to universities, Mr. Speaker, and it's an area that we want to see if we can access in some way or other. There are chairs of research councils across the country at various universities. We are looking at getting in touch with all of those chairs to do more research here in the Northwest Territories, specifically through the Arctic Research Council. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Question 91-14(6): Aurora College Research Institutes

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . In the debate we have been having on the budget for the department, much of it centred on not just Arctic College, but also accountability or measuring how we are doing with the money that we are giving to the schools. We have increased their budget and it is in our interest to make sure we are doing the best we can with the money.

In answering the questions, about 15 percent of the total budget that school boards are getting for student support services, which is to go to special needs, the Minister indicated that there are not a lot of standards on how it's done. I just want the Minister to clarify if that is the case. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we do have guidelines for the usage of this particular funding. We do have the DECs and DEAs that receive funding for both PTR and for student needs support funding that apply the money for those particular areas, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could he explain in just easy-to-understand terms what is the direction of the department to the boards, in terms of how they expect the money to be spent as support services or student support needs?

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Supplementary To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will give an example of a classroom assistant, Mr. Speaker, that will be dedicated to a student who has special needs, development of classroom assistants, as well as teacher development in how to handle special needs in classrooms, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate an example, but I am trying to get a sense of what the message is that school boards get when they are given 15 percent of the total budget to spend on special needs. What is the message that the department and the government is sending in terms of the expectations of what school boards should do with the money? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the funding is clearly identified and we have been in touch with both the union and with the school boards with respect to the funding that is provided, the extra funding we provide each year for PTR and student needs funding. We directed these particular organizations to use the funding for that purpose. That is the instruction provided. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it might be clear to the committee, but it's not clear to us exactly what objective is being said or what expectations are conveyed to the boards. It should be said in a way that, at the end of the year when the money is spent, we should be able to measure what our level of success is or where the deficiencies are. Could he be more clear about what the department tells the boards? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the measurement is simple in terms of PTR. I am sure most Members know, because we do get a report back at the end of the year, that it's a little more difficult to quantify the exact numbers of students because the money that's used for student needs is issued for a number of the areas, including support for students, as well as classroom assistants and to add to the classroom assistant numbers. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 92-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Nitah .

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Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . Mr. Speaker, we have known for a long time that housing availability for teachers in our communities has always been a problem. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment has hired a consulting firm to do a survey. Early results have indicated the conclusion that came up years ago, that a housing shortage is a problem for teachers. We know the results will be in around mid-March. What is the Minister intending to do with those results? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The intent of my request on this was simply to get some idea of the turnover that we had in this specific area. So we did a small study on this, or are in the process of doing a small study to get some information on that. I wanted to know some of the reasons for the turnover. Thank you.

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Return To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Nitah .

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Supplementary To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, according to this

article and based on my personal experiences, it's almost to do entirely with housing; lack of, cost of, condition of, those issues. Once he determines that this is a housing issue, what is he planning to do with that information, Mr. Speaker? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, part of the reason for gaining this was to see if there were other circumstances other than housing that may be involved in the turnover because, as we know, sometimes it isn't just a housing situation that causes our problems. So I wanted to see where turnover was and how frequent that was. We have no particular ultimate plan on that because the housing problems that may be there are the responsibility of another department of this government, Mr. Speaker, and private organizations and so forth and communities. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Nitah .

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Supplementary To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, maybe the Minister can share some information on the cost to this government of teacher turnover rates. What is the percentage of turnover rates in our small communities and our different regions and what is the cost to the Government of the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The turnover rate I believe last year was 18 percent, Mr. Speaker, which is traditional. It hasn't changed much over the years and it's not inordinate in comparison with other areas. The difficulty we have seems to be in specific areas. We are trying to get a handle on that and why that is occurring, Mr. Speaker. I don't have the dollar amounts at my fingertips here, Mr. Speaker, but we can certainly get it.

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Further Return To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Nitah .

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Supplementary To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 337

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do agree with the Minister that the turnover rates of 18 percent might represent the territorial perspective, but if you take Yellowknife, Hay River, Fort Smith and Inuvik out of the picture, I would assume that the turnover rate is probably more like 50 percent plus, which costs this government quit a bit. We say our children are our greatest resources.

Maybe the government and the department should be getting back to public housing to ensure housing availability for teachers is there and that the comfort relationship between students and teachers is recreated, so we may increase the graduation rates of our students, so we can prepare for the economy of the day. Would the Minister take that suggestion to his colleagues and discuss it and bring the answer back to us along with the costs associated with turnaround? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated, the turnover rate fluctuates in different areas, different amounts, different times. We noticed, for example, that if we are able to concentrate on a specific area, which we did in the one case in the territory, our turnover rate dramatically reduced. We worked on a teacher induction program and to help teachers who are new teachers and new to the North, then it makes a huge difference in terms of their retainability, much more satisfaction. We team them up with mentors, for example. This is one area that we use. Housing is one part of the turnover issue, but so are perhaps a lot of other areas, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Question 93-14(6): Impact Of Housing Shortages On The Teaching Profession

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 94-14(6): Report Of The Business Program Review Committee

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday, and I quote from unedited Hansard, in response to questions asked by my colleague, Mr. McLeod , Minister Antoine said: "We are looking at combining the NWT Development Corporation with the Business Credit Corporation and looking at the development of new legislation and also it would incorporate the Business Loan Fund and Community Futures..." My question is for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development . I think we are all aware that there has been an amalgamated working group working on this very subject for some time.

I would like to know if there is a report that was produced by this group that could be tabled in this House. Thank you.

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Question 94-14(6): Report Of The Business Program Review Committee

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of RWED , Mr. Antoine .

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Question 94-14(6): Report Of The Business Program Review Committee

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to take that question as notice because I don't know whether we can table the document that we have. I know we have a legislative proposal that went to the Standing Committee on GED. Thank you.

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Question 94-14(6): Report Of The Business Program Review Committee

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

The question is being taken as notice. Item 6, oral questions. The Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier , the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi . I would like to ask the Premier if he can give direction to his Cabinet so they can defer the harmonization initiative until a further review is done, so that we can guarantee that it will not be a hardship on students, seniors or single parents? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier .

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Return To Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I had an opportunity yesterday to have some discussion with Members of the Legislature informally when this issue was first raised and I had committed to the MLAs at that time that I would have a discussion with my fellow Ministers and following that, give them some indication as to what we would be prepared to do. We started that first step of the process today. So we will be sharing whatever decision we make in the next few days. Thank you.

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Return To Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty .

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Supplementary To Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Premier if, upon talking to his Ministers, they have some idea at what time it will be deferred or changes made to the harmonization program. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The suggestion was made in good faith yesterday by Members of the Legislature, so I had agreed at that time to share that with the appropriate Ministers. I have done that. We will respect the Ministers' right to contemplate the suggestion. I am sure at the appropriate time, they will indicate to me whether they are in agreement with that suggestion and come forward with the appropriate initiative. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Question 95-14(6): Deferral Of The Harmonization Of Income Support And Social Housing Initiative

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 338

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs . It goes without saying that we, as a government, owe our volunteer firefighters throughout the NWT a huge debt of gratitude for their tireless service in our communities. These brave men and women put their lives on the line everyday, 365 days a year, so that we may be safe from harm. In this House, Mr.

Speaker, on October of 2001, I asked the Honourable Roger Allen , then Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , if he would agree to provide medals of recognition to our volunteer firefighters, so that they may be shown a tangible form of recognition.

The Minister stated then: "Yes, as I have heard in other jurisdictions across the country, I am pleased to say that we will support our Northwest Territories firefighter organizations, so that they do receive some recognition." I would like to ask the current Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs to advise this House as to what progress his department has made with incremental service medals for our volunteer firefighters. It has now been a year-and-a-half since I have made the request and I haven't heard of the progress on these medals. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Steen .

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Return To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since the question was recently brought up, we have established three types of merit awards in recognition of firefighters and community fire departments. We have an individual merit award for each region and then overall a territorial award, then we have a community fire department merit award and a length of service award. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for his answer. I would like him to expand a little bit more though, Mr. Speaker, if he would, on the type of awards that are being presented. Are these actual service medals and I refer to the length of service medals. What type of awards are we presenting? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department is proceeding with the production of special service pins to recognize two and five-year terms. Years of service medallions will recognize services of 10, 15 and 20 or more years of service. Further to that, Mr. Speaker, we have taken the whole question back to the NWT fire departments and the fire marshal to see if we can't improve on the type of awards, in particular the pins, in recognition of length of service. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, certainly when we are going to recognize our volunteer firefighters, surely we can do it in the form of a service medal that they can wear proudly and wear in conjunction with other service medals. There is a pretty standard form of medal that different groups receive for incremental years of service. I would hope that this department would look at medals and not pins for this. Certainly it can't be a money issue. Will the Minister commit to making these service medals and not pins? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of MACA , Mr. Steen .

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Further Return To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, although I would probably prefer to commit to the Member that we could create medals rather than pins, I have to take into consideration the fact that we now put the question to the fire chiefs and the fire department, as well as the fire marshal, and I hate to jump the gun before we get recommendations back from them. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I also asked the Minister back at that time if we could supply licence plates for our volunteer firefighters to recognize them, to give them some recognition in the community. Mr. Speaker, when I asked for that, I was asking for regular licence plates that go on the back. It's done in other jurisdictions that firefighters in the community stand out and it gives them some sort of special recognition. I would like to know with the Minister where this issue is with licence plates for firefighters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of MACA .

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Further Return To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this particular question was taken to the Department of Transportation and we've been advised that it would require a change of the legislation to allow for such a licence plate. Although there may be some complications with actually keeping track of the licence plates afterwards, it was not recommended by Transportation that we do this.

They recommended, and I believe both departments agreed, that the only way to go would be with front licence plates, rather than back licence plates and so long as they didn't have the NWT polar bear image on it, there would be no problem with creating such a licence plate. In that case, Transportation would have no issue at all with the licence plate. That was what we took back to the Member and to the fire departments for consideration. I know it's not what the Member recommended, but it's basically what the department arrived at as the only possible way we could respond to the question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 96-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod .

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Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 339

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister responsible for the harmonization initiative. However, in light of the Premier 's response, I will change my line of questioning to what is calculated as income for the people in social housing. I would like to ask the Minister Responsible for the Housing Corporation , I have gotten a lot of complaints that there is a new methodology of calculating gross income and based on the income, your rent is adjusted. I would like to ask the Minister if he could tell me what's included as part of the calculations.

I am told bingos and gambling winnings are all part of what is calculated. Could he clarify to me what is part of the calculations? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister Responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Allen .

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Return To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I will speak to the current status of what is declared as income. Since harmonization is not in effect yet, the other calculations such as bingo earnings and various other incomes are not calculated into the current rent scales. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this issue has been raised to me on a number of occasions that we are now trying to incorporate a system that will include items that are considered income. There may not be a formal methodology of tracking it. Could the Minister tell me what would be in place to ensure that information is not based on hearsay? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister Responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a very critical point that should be conveyed to the Members is that the NWT Housing Corporation is responsible for the implementation of the harmonization policy in terms of calculating rents. We have sent out a formal letter about the methodology that is going to be used to calculate rents. How we calculate income is something we need to address. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given the answer from the Minister, I take it that these new formulas for calculating income are not in place and we're not going to have a bunch of repo men lurking behind the doors and in the shadows trying to calculate what is income and what is not income and who is winning bingo and who is winning card games? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister Responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think those are some of the unknowns that we need to really look at carefully. I know the traditional method is to have each tenant coming to the local housing association each month and declaring income and that is the normal procedure, so hopefully we can eradicate some of the misnomers in a very short while. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Question 97-14(6): Income Calculations For Social Housing Rent Scales

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Ms. Lee .

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Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to pursue the questions I had earlier about the funding for special needs in our schools. Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , not for technical accounting data of where the money goes, but what his instruction or guidelines have been. Is there anything that he's told the boards about what he expects to be done with the money for special needs? Thank you.

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Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on a twice annual basis, I meet with the chairs of the district education councils and authorities, and the superintendents meet with our staff at the same time.

During those meetings, we have discussed the issue of funding, PTR and special needs funding, and I've given specific instructions that this money is to be used for the intended purpose to ensure that it goes into student needs funding, meaning that it should go into areas such as school consultants and program support teachers, supports for our students, for materials, supplies that they may need, special transportation and student support assistance and extraordinary situations where students my need some help. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In those conversations, has he also talked to them about the end result of that? What sort of evaluation does he engage in within these board officials to determine how well the money is being spent? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 340

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I mentioned earlier, it is easy to quantify the PTR because that is measured and reported in that fashion. It is a little more difficult to quantify and to tabulate every expenditure that is made in support of student funding because of the variety of areas it could be used in: support teachers, student support, et cetera. That is reported back though, Mr. Speaker, in general terms through our annual reporting system. We have a very, very good reporting system from the DECs back to headquarters with annual reports. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question has to do with the special needs funding, not necessarily PTR, and the Minister said two things. One is that, because the area is so complex, he can't itemize everything and yet he is getting excellent reports from the boards. So there is a contradictory message there. I'm wondering if the Minister could provide the House, in writing, with the instructions he gives or guidelines he gives to the boards and what the evaluation is that is coming back. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I'm not sure what the honourable Member wants me to put in writing other than what I have just stated. I did state that I meet with the boards on a consistent basis and we mentioned yesterday that we are on a continual process of better and better accountability of reporting, Mr. Speaker. We are determined to ensure that that transpires. I'll see what I can get in terms of information on this for the Member and we'll provide that as soon as we can get it available. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Your final supplementary question, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. He is saying he'll get me information but he really doesn't know what I am asking for. What I am trying to do is; I think we have an obligation, when we are increasing funding for special needs, to do the best we can with the money. Would the Minister give me information that tells me where the money has gone to, what was expected of it and how it was spent? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Those questions are clear and we'll do our best to provide that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Question 98-14(6): Funding For Student Support Services

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In keeping with my questions there before, I would like to ask the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs again, on the issue of service medals, does the Minister or the department not have the authority to issue medals instead of pins if they would like to do it, or does it have to come from the fire marshal or what is the process? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Question to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Steen .

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Return To Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the department could come up with a medal regardless what the fire department or fire marshal says, but we would certainly like to have their input to it. However, in the end, it is the department's decision. Nevertheless we would certainly like to have their input. Thank you.

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Return To Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Return To Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, I just have one more question, Mr. Speaker, and that is; when can we see these medals? When are they going to show up or when will they be introduced? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Steen .

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Return To Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I apologize, I've missed the Member's question.

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Return To Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

The Deputy Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Delorey , could you restate your question?

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Supplementary To Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Question 99-14(6): Recognition Of Volunteer Firefighters

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 341

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was looking for timelines on these medals, on the different aw