Debates of Nov. 3rd, 2014

This is page numbers 5143 – 5178 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was energy .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Pan-Territorial Research Initiative Building A Northern Evidence-Based Approach To Crime Prevention

Developing Our Northern Workforce

Integrated Northern Energy System

Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Green Energy Initiatives

Targeted Incentives To Reduce Power Costs

Movember Men’s Health Awareness Month

Sustainable Energy Development In The Sahtu

Alternative Energy Solutions For The Town Of Inuvik

Actions And Outcomes From Second Energy Charrette

Expansion Of Biomass Wood Energy Applications

Renewable Energy Solutions

Mackenzie Delta Energy Initiatives

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Literacy Council Award Recipients

Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Inuvik Arctic Energy And Emerging Technology Conference

Public-Private Partnership Policy

Expansion Of Alternative Energy Programs

Community Biomass Energy Systems

Integrated Northern Energy System

Men’s Health Awareness Campaign

Alberta/nwt Cooperation On Energy Initiatives

Fuel Subsidies For Hunters And Trappers

Written Question 22-17(5): Junior Kindergarten Funding

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

Petition 4-17(5): Occupational Health And Safety Regulations

Tabled Document 166-17(5): Northwest Territories Community Futures Program 2012-2013 Annual Report

Tabled Document 167-17(5): Correspondence From NWTac To Minister R.c. Mcleod Regarding Homelessness Resolution

Bill 41:

An Act To Amend The Partnership Act

Bill 42:

An Act To Amend The Residential Tenancies Act

Bill 35: Supplementary Appropriation Act (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2014-2015

Bill 36: Health And Social Services Professions Act

Bill 37: Financial Administration Act

Bill 38:

An Act To Amend The Jury Act

Bill 39: Supplementary Appropriation Act (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 4, 2014-2015

Bill 40: Appropriation Act (infrastructure Expenditures), 2015-2016

Bill 34: 2015 Polling Day Act

Bill 35: Supplementary Appropriation Act (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2014-2015

Bill 39: Supplementary Appropriation Act (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 4, 2014-2015

Bill 40: Appropriation Act (infrastructure Expenditures), 2015-2016

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Amendment To Clause 5

Report of Committee of the Whole

Bill 35: Supplementary Appropriation Act (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2014-2015

Bill 39: Supplementary Appropriation Act (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 4, 2014-2015

Bill 40: Appropriation Act (infrastructure Expenditures), 2015-2016

Orders of the Day

Members Present

Hon. Glen Abernethy , Hon. Tom Beaulieu , Ms. Bisaro , Mr. Blake , Mr. Bouchard , Mr. Bromley , Mr. Dolynny , Mrs. Groenewegen , Mr. Hawkins , Hon. Jackie Jacobson , Hon. Jackson Lafferty , Hon. Bob McLeod , Hon. Robert McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Hon. Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Moses , Mr. Nadli , Hon. David Ramsay , Mr. Yakeleya

The House met at 1:29 p.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Good afternoon, colleagues. Colleagues, I would like to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery this afternoon of Mr. Andre Marin, ombudsman for the province of Ontario. He’s accompanied by his assistant manager of communications, Ms. Ashley Bursey.

I understand this is your first visit to the North. Please let me extend a warm welcome to the Northwest Territories on behalf of our Assembly.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Justice , Mr. Ramsay .

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Minister's Statement 115-17(5): Pan-Territorial Research Initiative Building A Northern Evidence-Based Approach To Crime Prevention

Ministers’ Statements

Kam Lake

David Ramsay

Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, today I wish to tell you about Building a Northern Evidence-Based Approach to Crime Prevention, a new pan-territorial research initiative that the Northwest Territories Department of Justice is participating in with Yukon and Nunavut.

With the support of our federal partner, Public Safety Canada, the three territories have launched a four-year project to develop a made-in-the-North approach to crime prevention. Through the National Crime Prevention Centre, a total of just over $1.2 million has been committed over the life of the initiative. While the NWT has the lead, the intent is to deliver the project through a true partnership involving the residents and communities of each territory.

Each of the three territories has crime reduction initiatives in place, and we have all been working with community partners to decrease crime in our communities. However, we acknowledge that the crime rate in the three territories is consistently higher than the rest of Canada. This is especially

true when it comes to the level of violent crime, which is significantly higher.

In developing approaches to crime prevention, it is critical that we understand crime and the impact it has on our residents and communities. This includes a deeper understanding of the root causes of crime across the territories and why our crime rates are consistently higher than other areas of Canada.

Currently, data is collected by various government agencies and partners, but it is important to ensure that the information gathered is shared in an organized and responsible way. It is also important that we make sure that the quality and the consistency of data being collected is relevant to our needs, so that we can work together to make informed decisions.

To date, there has not been a comprehensive study across the North that pulls together this kind of information and focuses specifically on crime prevention. This new four-year project will address this need.

The first phase of the project is well underway, Mr. Speaker, and will set the stage for a successful initiative. The end result will be a northern crime prevention framework that recognizes the uniqueness of each territory as well as our common goal to work in close partnership with our respective communities to deter and prevent crime.

Building a strong and sustainable future for our territory by strengthening relationships with Aboriginal and other northern governments is one of the priorities of this Assembly. Through initiatives like Building a Northern Evidence-Based Approach to Crime Prevention we are helping to create sustainable, vibrant and safe communities. We are proud to be part of this valuable work. By working together with Nunavut and Yukon, we can build on the partnerships that each territory has developed with their community members. This coordination of our strengths will lead us to crime prevention solutions that are truly reflective of all Northerners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 115-17(5): Pan-Territorial Research Initiative Building A Northern Evidence-Based Approach To Crime Prevention

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Colleagues, before we go on today, I’d like to welcome back former Member of the Legislative Assembly, former Premier , Member for Inuvik Boot Lake who sat in the 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th Legislative Assemblies, Mr. Floyd Roland.

---Applause

Good to see you back in the House, Floyd. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Minister's Statement 116-17(5): Developing Our Northern Workforce

Ministers’ Statements

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment is committed to supporting the development of an educated, skilled and trained northern workforce. As stated in the Economic Outlook 2014-15 report, we have an incredible future with a potential for more than $4.5 billion in new investment in the NWT planned over the next several years. With these investments come many new jobs and opportunities.

The Northwest Territories Nominee Program is a key component of the GNWT’s efforts to attract 2,000 new residents by 2019. ECE has set a target of increasing the number of nominees by 25 percent annually, starting in 2014-15.

Work to enhance our Nominee Program has already begun. We will be clarifying the nominee application process, improving the forms and access to online information and promoting and improving awareness of the program.

We will be engaging our many partners in the coming weeks to ensure the program meets the needs of the business community and is ready for implementation in January 2015.

Mr. Speaker, another of our ECE programs contributing to the GNWT’s population growth work is our Student Financial Assistance program. ECE is presently considering options for enhancing the remission and repayment program to reduce students’ debt much faster. We believe such improvements will encourage our students to return to the NWT and potentially encourage more southern students to come to the NWT.

As well, Mr. Speaker, due to the improved nature of collecting and sharing information from students, the GNWT is able to review the skill sets of northern students studying at post-secondary institutions and match them with meaningful and rewarding jobs with our government.

We believe these improvements will contribute both to the success of our economy and help grow the NWT’s population.

ECE remains committed to delivering effective labour market programs that achieve results and respond to residents’ needs. We are doing detailed assessments of the North’s current and future labour market needs across all sectors so that we have relevant labour market information. This initiative will examine skills training and post-secondary education systems and complete the entire spectrum of services from early childhood to employment. It will provide us with valuable information on which we can base our future investments and decisions as a government.

Mr. Speaker, this is work no one can accomplish alone. I believe we can achieve our goals by working together across government, through our valuable partnerships, and with businesses and the public. We are excited to be contributing to the future, and are in it for the long haul. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 116-17(5): Developing Our Northern Workforce

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Integrated Northern Energy System

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our second Energy Charrette in as many years begins today. Will we finally get it right? We’ve made no net gains in the intervening time. Another $58 million in diesel subsidies and millions in failed subsidies in connecting power grids, some clearly a waste because results were so predictable. Hardly progress. We must get real.

The Premier , ENR and NTPC may finally be starting to think in terms of keeping the lights on and begin to address energy costs in ways that also gain environmental social benefits, all part of the affordability equation.

Current diesel power subsidies insatiably consume budgets. The public pays the rising cost of government’s attack on our environment through subsidies, carbon emissions and both ratepayers and taxpayers can no longer bear the burden of a monopolistic power provider. Change has become essential.

The plan to go with full-blown renewable energy will not achieve us the gains we want unless communities are involved from the bottom up. Will this Energy Charrette be based on the knowledge that we must invest in community-owned renewable energy tailored to individual circumstances if we are to cut our energy costs, build our local economies and create cleaner environments for our children?

It must be abundantly clear by now that a one-size-fits-all approach has had the opposite effect. Every region has different opportunities and challenges for meeting energy needs and conservation. Whether it’s biomass, solar, wind, or run-of-the-river hydro generation, all have energy efficiency and conservation opportunities. But unless communities are fully engaged in addressing these, benefits and sustainability will be far below what could be achieved.

I’m not saying this is easy and I don’t think a one-day forum will provide the answers, though given proper context, important insights could be gained. But the right guiding principles must be asserted and the right questions must be asked.

We need an integrated energy system that looks at all of our energy needs – power, heat and transportation – and that can grow or shrink into the future as needed. We need a system that cuts costs and provides both social and environmental benefits in this challenging jurisdiction.

Finally, we need to be prepared for solutions that move away from a single provider like NTPC or Imperial Oil.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Mahsi.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Integrated Northern Energy System

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Finally, we need to be prepared for solutions that move away from a single provider like NTPC or Imperial or whomever. We must address the issue of stranded infrastructure, efficient fossil fuel backup systems, locally derived forms of energy that provide local jobs, and the energy education and training to help us move into the 21st century.

As we hear from every quarter, scientists and our dwindling population, time is running out. Mahsi.

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Integrated Northern Energy System

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A few of us today are going to be talking about energy, and I would like to add my voice to that from the angle that I’ve been contemplating.

With Halloween just having passed last Friday, I’m going to talk about ghost busters. Everybody knows about those little lights that are all over in your house. They call them phantom or ghost consumers of power.

What I would like to do is challenge people to go into their homes and look around their kitchen and the night table beside their bed and look at how many cell phone chargers they’ve left plugged in when they’re not charging their phone. In the kitchen, look at the microwave, the stove, the dishwasher, the ice machine. I mean, everything has a light on it. So let’s just say that every one of those little lights – think about the power bars for the multi-plugs, they’ve got a light on them – let’s think about all of those and I challenge people to go to your house and count them up, because I think that you could easily find 30 of those in any given home. I know you probably could in mine.

If you figure out that each one of those little lights costs about just an insignificant amount of $2 a month for power consumption. Let’s just say you could save $60 a month on your power bill by addressing all those phantom ghost consumers of energy. Now, there are 8,500 power accounts in Yellowknife. I don’t know if we could safely double that for the whole territory, but even in Yellowknife, if you took 8,500 customers and you reduced their power bill by $60 each, that would be half a million dollars per month. Now, correct me if my math is wrong. Could that be possible? Five hundred thousand dollars a month in savings if we took $60 off of everybody’s power bill?

Now, multiply that times 12. Now we’re talking over $6 million a year. Now, let’s double that because there’s probably another 8,500 customers out there around the Northwest Territories. Now we’re almost up to the amount that our government just subsidized NTPC for, for their fuel rider, because we had low water this year.

I don’t know. Like I said, my math could be all wrong here, folks. But you know, the point of the matter is that we could all look at what we are consuming energy on and how we’re consuming it, and we could probably all do something to address the consumption, therefore, our costs and the cost of living. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Green Energy Initiatives

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. We all know that in small communities and regions the cost of electricity and fuel is very high. We know that it makes it difficult for working families and individuals to balance their household budget and for local businesses to be competitive.

We also know that the costs differ from one community to another. For instance, the cost of power for Tuktoyaktuk residents is more than twice what it is in Fort Smith. The rates for residents in Nahanni Butte, Jean Marie River and Liidlii Kue are among the highest five in the Northwest Territories.

Small and remote communities cannot sustain the increasing costs of energy and fuels. In order to save money, we need to reduce our dependence on expensive diesel-generated power.

I have spoken in the Legislative Assembly in support of the government’s proactive approach to developing green energy initiatives. Investments in alternative energy, hydro, wind and biomass will help us move away from fossil fuels and will save us money. Technologies with regard to many hydro projects are improving and bode well as a solution in our regions.

Fort Simpson has identified goals to reduce its energy consumption, including promoting energy awareness, just like Mrs. Groenewegen did a few minutes ago. There are also plans to use residual heat recovered from the NWT Power Corporation’s diesel generators and investigating plans of potential geothermal energy. These are great initiatives.

I also would like to wish all the attendees at this year’s Energy Charrette the best as they discuss and look for ways to help all Northerners with a cheaper and sustainable future. Mahsi cho.

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Green Energy Initiatives

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The Member for Range Lake , Mr. Dolynny .

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Targeted Incentives To Reduce Power Costs

Members’ Statements

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If one was to evaluate our current state of affairs when it comes to our energy production, our over 26 percent in power rate increases over the life of this Assembly and our continued lack of a plan, some would say we are on a constant morphine drip, and they would be right. Furthermore, as a main shareholder in what is in essence a Crown corporation, the NWT Power Corporation has shown its lack of accountability, and instead of being held to task as a corporation would in the real world, we lavish it with subsidy rewards.

History has shown time and time again the GNWT has a history of failure when it comes to energy planning and rising costs in its production. How many more reviews, strategies, collaborations, reports, papers, action plans, panels and advisory groups does it take to get from A to B in lowering costs and ultimately reducing our cost of living?

As the North gravitates to what is yet another Energy Charrette – the second one in less than two years – I, like most Northerners, wonder at what point will this new initiative gather the same dusty fate as its predecessor.

As optimistic as one can be as an MLA who sees this from a unique perspective, I have a very difficult time understanding why we would be using such a delay tactic of a charrette to mitigate what we already know.

Aside from the obvious of needing to instill the proper business mentality at the NWT Power Corporation, the GNWT needs to simply undertake what I call two strategic directions.

If you truly want to lower the cost of living with energy solutions, the GNWT needs to first lower our thirst for fuel. As mentioned in last week’s Member’s statement, we need to recapture at NTPC production sites, unused stovepipe heat energy and store it in earth tubes through what is called ground-coupled heat exchange system. This will immediately lower our diesel consumption in all our non-hydro communities and our return on investment would be almost immediate.

The second strategy investment is simply through incentives. We need to provide as many incentives as possible to let the industry, with all its latest technology, moving at lightning speed, do its thing. This will lower the capitalization of investment from 15 to 20 years to a more reasonable five years or less, thereby making energy investment more economically viable to the consumer.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Targeted Incentives To Reduce Power Costs

Members’ Statements

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

It’s through targeted incentives that will ultimately uncork innovation of individuals and the private sector to find the path of change. Let us not forget it was not government who made the life-changing discoveries of our past. It was the risk-takers and the inventors who ploughed the way. Thank you.

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Targeted Incentives To Reduce Power Costs

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny . The Member for Hay River South , Mr. Bouchard .

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Movember Men’s Health Awareness Month

Members’ Statements

Robert Bouchard

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m before you today baby-faced and clean-shaven.

Today is the first day in November where we have session and I am partaking in Movember, a cause for men’s health, issues for prostate cancer and below the belt issues. We need to encourage men to go get themselves checked, get their prostates checked to make sure they keep their health up.

I use my face and the little bit of stubble I’ll have over the next month as a message and a billboard to men’s health and that men go out and get themselves checked. Thank you.

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Movember Men’s Health Awareness Month

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard . The Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Sustainable Energy Development In The Sahtu

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

It’s time to get down to the facts. Isn’t it interesting that the top two agencies or the departments formerly complained about in Ontario are probably the top two in the Northwest Territories. Let’s stick with energy since it’s the word of the day.

Last month the government said the people in Fort Good Hope would pay less to fill up their vehicles. Instead, the people saw prices at their pump jump from $1.80 a litre to $1.83 per litre. A promise is a promise is a promise.

Colville Lake customers got the unpleasant surprise, a 6 percent markup at their pumps at $1.99 a litre. Something doesn’t add up. But who are you gonna call? Not the Ghostbusters.

We have an abundance of energy resources beneath our feet in the Sahtu. Why aren’t we using it? Why are we relying and building and continuing to build our dependency on foreign oil and gas? The time is now, the time for sustainable resource development in the Sahtu in the North, and a time for an independent watchdog here in the Northwest Territories.

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Sustainable Energy Development In The Sahtu

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Moses .

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Alternative Energy Solutions For The Town Of Inuvik

Members’ Statements

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On October 23rd the Town of Inuvik issued a media release, entitled “The Town of Inuvik Prepares for the Arctic Energy and Emerging Technologies Conference in June of 2016.” This could not come at a better time. The Town of Inuvik is planning to host this conference and tradeshow from June 13 to 16, 2016, and replace the Inuvik Petroleum Show, which has been successful over the years.

This new approach is going to address a lot of the current needs of not only the community of Inuvik but the Northwest Territories as a whole. If it’s going to show any impact or any importance, it’s going to show that Inuvik is one of the leading communities and one of the leading conferences, such as the petroleum show, and it actually will be one of the leaders moving forward into this new way of looking at alternative energy.

Over the years we have seen a decrease in the activity of oil and gas in the community of Inuvik and the Beaufort-Delta region and, most recently, in the Sahtu region. As this happens, we’re also facing the realities in Inuvik of a gas shortage. We’re also seeing the realities of an increase to the cost of home heating fuels and the increased costs of transporting liquid natural gas, which all, in the end, results in a high cost of living for residents of the community of Inuvik.

This year, the government alone will subsidize public housing units and affordable housing to the tune of just over $9 million, plus we just gave a $20 million subsidy to the Power Corporation. Twenty-nine million dollars this year, without looking at a big increase into alternative energies, which I think really needs to be addressed to offset the high cost of living we see a lot of our residents facing.

On top of that $29 million, we’re not even talking about the costs that this government is offsetting by turning a lot of its government buildings over to diesel so that the natural gas can last longer in Inuvik.

I did speak last week to subsidies in this House, but I specifically spoke to subsidies for the homeowner and how we can subsidize them for their high heating fuel.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Alternative Energy Solutions For The Town Of Inuvik

Members’ Statements

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

Yes, last week I spoke on how this government, if they had any new ideas on how we can subsidize the homeowner, the taxpayer, the ones that are contributing to our economy without any good solutions. This is a growing concern for the people in the community of Inuvik. As I said, double income households having a hard time making it paycheque to paycheque.

As the Energy Charrette begins today, I just want to take this opportunity to applaud the Town of Inuvik for taking the leadership, to take the positive step moving into a new direction to finding alternative solutions to address our current gas situation in Inuvik and to address the high cost of living for residents of Inuvik. Like I said, it couldn’t come at a better time, and hopefully, we can find solutions sooner than later. Thank you.

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Alternative Energy Solutions For The Town Of Inuvik

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses . Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Actions And Outcomes From Second Energy Charrette

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we all know, this evening will kick off the second Energy Charrette, the second attempt by our government to find a solution to the huge cost that everyone in the NWT, including our government, pays for our energy products. The first charrette, two years ago, began and ended with much fanfare.

The reports of the event suggested we would soon have solutions to our energy woes. How wrong that was, Mr. Speaker. Now, two years later, we are no further ahead. No concrete developments that will solve our energy woes and much further behind in curtailing our spending on energy.

To be fair, there have been a few projects and they have proved successful in reducing energy use, but the gains are small. Instead the government has been throwing money at both the problem and the users.

In the last three fiscal years, including this one, GNWT has spent almost $36 million to subsidize power costs for residents and businesses. On top of that, NTPC has received almost $50 million to keep power rate increases down and to convert buildings to diesel fuel in Inuvik. On top of that, NTPC has not paid any dividend to its one shareholder, the GNWT, for the last three years. That’s another $6 million that they have been gifted.

In the same time period, little seems to have been accomplished to advance cheaper energy. The many, many millions spent by NT Energy Corporation to develop power generation and transmission plans seems to be for naught, as we are now informed that it will be too expensive to follow that plan.

Instead of providing millions of dollars in subsidies, the government should have been looking elsewhere, being innovative. The second charrette comes with assurances, again, of great promises for solutions to solve our high energy costs. I am sceptical that that will be achieved, but I look forward to the results with an open mind.

There are many things we could be doing right now to lower our power costs. Community biomass plants is only one of them. Surely if Europe can have community systems, then we can as well. What is stopping us? Well, I guess that would be initiative and bold thinking from NWT Power Corporation. Something I don’t believe they can do.

The Northern Journal had an editorial, several weeks ago, that summed up our situation very well and offered a solution.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Actions And Outcomes From Second Energy Charrette

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

So, from the Northern Journal, “The NWT government’s approach to power generation is muddled.” And further, “A disturbing trend of costly ineffectiveness, despite an endless series of consultation and reviews,” and further, “The NWT government has demonstrated it cannot manage the situation. It must stop wasting time and money with reviews, reports, consultants and experimenting with things it has no expertise in. It should create an environment through incentives that unleash the ingenuity of individuals and entrepreneurs. Do that and the problems will be solved within a decade.”

Mr. Speaker, I couldn’t have said it better. I only hope the charrette participants and the government are listening. Thank you.

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Actions And Outcomes From Second Energy Charrette

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . Member for Deh Cho , Mr. Nadli .

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Expansion Of Biomass Wood Energy Applications

Members’ Statements

Michael Nadli

Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The natural wood grows abundantly in this land mass of an area of about 519,000 square miles. We have lots of trees. Wood is removable and it is sometimes simply a matter of an axe or saw to bring a pile of wood into your home to keep you warm. Advances in technology have made many of the tasks of chopping or sawing an afterthought. Now we have chainsaws for industrial skill type methods for collecting firewood.

Wood is used in woodstoves, for heating systems, for boilers systems and for the production of wood pellets, to name a few. In the NWT, campfires burn for ages with wood and woodstoves are common. Nowadays most NWT homes have indoor woodstoves. Having a woodstove promotes independence and active living, getting your own firewood with your family with your snow machine in the wintertime.

Mr. Speaker, this is part of a greater initiative that this government has undertaken. Biomass is a source of energy. Recently in Fort Providence, it was a proud moment when the community entered into a forest management agreement with the GNWT and a business person to explore the idea of establishing a wood pellet plant. That day brought that reality closer, and at some point other communities will jump on that too.

So the northern wood has served the North really well and I’m hoping that now and into the future it will continue. Mahsi.

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Expansion Of Biomass Wood Energy Applications

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli . Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Renewable Energy Solutions

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Truly the sky is falling on this particular issue if we do not make a positive change. Everyone knows renewables are the future. Those people who continue to deny this fact, deny the future that they hold for their children.

We all know we must get behind renewables and continue to make strides in that particular area. It’s well known that Canada does not meet its targets on climate change initiatives and greenhouse gas problems, but yet it’s leading the future into an unknown peril that we may never be able to get off of the track that’s driving us to the end.

In contrast, the GNWT is certainly making great strides in this particular initiative, and we certainly have to appreciate that. But we all understand the impacts big oil brings to our world. What is this issue that continues to blind us? It may be easy to reach for the oil and it may be a struggle to reach for the renewables, but we must ask ourselves: do we want a tomorrow or do we want to see things end in a negative way?

Mr. Speaker, those who tell you our economy is important I would not disagree with them, but our economy deserves a future and that’s got to be the undertow of every consideration. Canada continues to fail its federal GHGs, as it’s been reported, and even the federal deputy ministers say this as well.

Our Prime Minister promised in 2007 that he would deliver oil and gas regulations that would make sense, and yet Canada still waits. While the new Premier of Alberta, Mr. Prentice, says that he has a climate change strategy and he will be developing it in the near future, I worry about us Northerners who sit downstream as to what we will be promised because we will be the ones benefiting from their short-sightedness. Mr. Prentice goes on by saying, “We must be responsible stewards, but we can’t damage industry’s competitiveness.” I don’t want them to damage my future.

Northern Gateway has been refused, for all intents and purposes, and now they look to the Northwest Territories as the solution to their problem. Let’s be honest. We all know pipelines bring lots of jobs in the construction but there are not jobs in the future.

We know that a pipeline through the Northwest Territories may only create 10, maybe 15 jobs. That’s not the future. Renewables are our future. We are not powerless and we should be asking ourselves to face that problem. The economy matters, but so does our future and you’re hearing it today. We must get off of this addiction of oil. We must get an intervention if necessary, but we must take the first step to a future which includes renewables as the first choice, not as the last choice. Thank you.

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Renewable Energy Solutions

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Blake .

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Mackenzie Delta Energy Initiatives

Members’ Statements

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you can tell, we have a theme day here on energy. I’d just like to speak to my riding.

Fort McPherson has been one of the leaders in our region in biomass as the band office is connected to one system. Also, as we move forward, the community will soon have a new elders facility which will have a solar panel system set up. Also, many of my constituents have woodstoves installed in their home. This not only cuts the cost of fuel used but during the winter months a woodstove can be a lifesaver when the power goes out.

As we move forward, we need to look at ways to make the most of our renewable resources; for example, turbine energy, as many of our communities live along a river, also wind turbines. Many of our communities have a lot of wind, for example. Up in your region, you know quite well, wind up to 100 kilometres per hour. That alone, Mr. Speaker, probably powers our whole Beaufort-Delta region. Those are things that we need to look at moving forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Mackenzie Delta Energy Initiatives

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have the honour of recognizing a gentleman who is known to just about all of us: Dr. David Suzuki.

From the Suzuki Foundation we have, as well, travelling with him Miles Richardson, Michiah Prull, Alvin Singh, Deneze Nakehk’o, and Steve Ellis was there from Tides Canada as well. I also don’t want to miss the rare opportunity to recognize my friend and colleague of many terms together – four, I believe, 16 years in the trenches in this House – former Premier Floyd Roland.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Mr. McLeod.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, being one of the Members from the Beau-Del, we’re very fortunate that we get to rely on the advice and experience of a lot of good leaders up there, and one of those is Mr. Floyd Roland, who was very instrumental with his advice and experience when I first started this. It’s been almost 10 years already; it’s 10 years this month. So I thank him for that and welcome him to the gallery once more. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Abernethy .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Health and Social Services and the Department of Environment and Natural Resources are hosting a workshop this week for the potential for increasing support and resources to on-the-land programs. I would like to recognize some the presenters at that workshop who are in the House today. Representing the British Columbia First Nations Fund: Valine Crist, Jessica Housty and Kim Hardy; and representing Australia’s Working Group on Country Program: Steve Roeger, Daryl Lacey, Bruce Rose, Patrick O’Leary.

I’d also like to recognize Steve Ellis, Tides Canada’s northern senior associate. Steve has been the key partner in identifying the need for this workshop and for pulling it together. So, thank you to Steve for bringing these experts north, and thanks for all of you for travelling so far to share your experiences with us. Welcome to the Northwest Territories and welcome to the House. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . Mr. Hawkins .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First I’d like to recognize Deneze Nakehk'o. I’ve known him a long time and it’s always great to see him. I certainly know his family very well and have great respect for them.

Mr. Speaker, I want to use the occasion to acknowledge our esteemed guest there, Dr. David Suzuki. In a funny way, many Canadians feel like we know him personally. As a small child growing up in Fort Simpson, I remember being sent to bed. But on Wednesday nights when I didn’t go to bed, I would turn my little black and white TV on and I’d have my little string earpiece so my parents didn’t know I was watching the Nature of Things. It was always great to watch him every Wednesday at 9:00 in Fort Simpson. All we had was CBC. So it’s great to see him, and as I said, it’s almost like all Canadians know him in some form. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to take this opportunity, as well, to recognize our former colleague – as Mr. Miltenberger said, many years here in the Legislative Assembly – and it’s very good to see former Premier Floyd Roland. Last night as my daughter and I were waiting for guests – we were going to the Explorer Hotel – Dr. Suzuki walked in the lobby, and my daughter, who’s only 25, said, “That’s David Suzuki,” and I said no, no, that isn’t. Anyway, I had to be proven wrong today. But welcome. It’s very nice to have you here. People recognize you, young and old obviously. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Nadli .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Michael Nadli

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m truly proud to recognize two Pages from my home community of Deh Gah School in Fort Providence: Mr. Julien Antoine, who is in Grade 9, and also Leah Baptiste, who is also in Grade 9. Mahsi.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli . Mr. Bromley .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d also like to join my colleagues today in recognizing and welcoming Dr. David Suzuki. I think there’s no question that he’s a great leader and visionary in Canada for the environment and for people’s health. I know he’s on the Blue Dot Tour, pursuing some changes to the Canadian Constitution that actually recognizes the value and the right to clean water, clean air and a healthy environment. So I really appreciate a life of dedication and I’d like to recognize that.

I’d also like to recognize Miles Richardson from Haida Gwaii. He actually was chairing one of the sessions that our EDI committee was attending in Fort Nelson not too long ago, and Steve Ellis, who was a resident of Weledeh – I don’t know whether he still is or not – and Deneze and all those in the House. Mahsi.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . Mr. Moses .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d first like to welcome and acknowledge His Worship, the mayor of Inuvik, Mr. Floyd Roland, also former Premier of the Northwest Territories and also former Member for Inuvik Boot Lake . I’d just like to welcome him back to the House.

I’d also like to take this opportunity to welcome and recognize Mr. Deneze Nakehk’o, a long-time friend, grew up together, long-time buddies.

Also, I’d like to welcome and recognize Mr. Miles Richardson from Haida Gwaii and Mr. David Suzuki. Welcome to the House. I hope you enjoy the proceedings, and good luck with your Blue Dot Tour. To all members of the David Suzuki Foundation, welcome and enjoy the proceedings. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses . Mr. Ramsay .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to welcome to the Assembly this afternoon a constituent, Mr. Deneze Nakehk’o. Welcome. Also, former Premier , mayor of Inuvik. Great to see you back in the House, Mr. Roland. Also, to all the other visitors that have come from far and wide to be with us this afternoon, welcome to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Welcome everybody here in the public gallery today. Thank you for taking an interest in our proceedings.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Mr. Bromley .

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Acknowledgement 14-17(5): Literacy Council Award Recipients

Acknowledgements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise to acknowledge Mary Rose Sundberg and Rose Mackenzie. At a fall community feast at the Chief Drygeese Centre in Detah, in celebration of the Literacy Council’s Peter Gzowski Literacy Invitational, two Weledeh constituents and Yellowknives Dene members were recognized for their achievements.

Rose Mackenzie, who is a second-year Aurora College Ndilo Community Learning Centre student, was honoured with the Literacy Learner Award for her determined and successful efforts towards self-improvement as an adult learner. Particularly, Rose has excelled in mathematics, where she has moved through six grade levels in a year.

Mary Rose Sundberg, the founder and executive director of the Goyatiko Language Society in Detah, received the prestigious Gzowski Award, given to a person who shares the journalist’s spirit as a proponent for literacy.

Mr. Speaker, colleagues, please join me in recognizing the accomplishments of these constituents and their awards for outstanding achievement in their pursuit of literacy. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Acknowledgement 14-17(5): Literacy Council Award Recipients

Acknowledgements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . Item 7, oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today, I talked about the possible advantages of doing more about conservation when it comes to energy and I was speaking particularly about our high cost of power. My questions today are for the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation.

I don’t know if I should have been in marketing, but I thought of a few campaign titles if we were to actually launch a campaign to encourage people to reduce their consumption of energy. I mentioned Ghostbusters. How about The Lights Are on But Nobody’s Home? I came up with a few others here too. I was just sitting here thinking about this.

I’d like to ask the Minister, what has his department, or his role as Minister responsible for the Power Corporation , what kind of research has gone into the advantages of a promotion or a campaign to encourage consumers to reduce the consumption of power? Thank you.

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The underlying concern, of course, in some quarters, is that the Power Corporation has no interest in encouraging people to reduce and conserve because they are profit driven and they have to survive on their revenues. In fact, if that was the case, it no longer is. As we will see over the course of the next few days, there is going to be discussion about the Power Corporation, our Crown corporation of which we are the one shareholder, of how it can better be a vehicle for the energy policy of the Government of the Northwest Territories and the people of the Northwest Territories.

They are committed to conservation. They’re switching out simple things. Like, they’re switching out all their sodium vapour streetlights to LED streetlights. They’re going to be rolling out a very significant conservation program online here in the next few days. They’ll work with communities and homeowners to look at what things they can do to conserve energy. We have a common shared commitment on that, and we are going to work on that together here as we move forward.

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

That could be the title of another couple of campaigns: Urban Legends and Something About Myths.

Back to my question, what has this government done to launch any kind of a campaign directly targeted at consumers to encourage them? He’s named some things that the Power Corporation is doing, but what has this government done directly targeted at consumers to encourage them to reduce their consumption?

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

At the beginning of the 16th Assembly, we came forward and we put $60 million, as a government, into the development of an approach to energy savings, energy efficiency. We rolled out the biomass plan, the solar plan, a strategy that has guided us. We have spent millions converting to biomass in our own facilities.

We have put millions of dollars into Environment and Natural Resources as well as the Arctic Energy Alliance to help people, to give them rebates for switching over to energy-efficient appliances, to switch to biomass, conversion with LED lights, we’ve picked up our work we’ve done on recycling, all of which are energy savers in the long run, in addition to the work we’re doing with the Power Corporation. We’ve mapped out, through our Energy Plan, a lot of these activities that we’ve continued to invest significant amounts of money into.

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Minister Miltenberger made a brief reference to this theory or concept or myth that’s out there in the public that if it costs this much to generate, distribute and retail power in the Northwest Territories, that if we actually reduce our consumption, the unit price is not going to be changed, because they still need to receive a return on their investment. I’d like the Minister to speak to that issue. People are saying, well, if we use less , the unit price will go up and we’re not really going to accomplish anything.

Could the Minister please elaborate on this to dispel that myth?

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

I can talk to the Power Corporation. I can’t speak to the NUL, which, as well, is a distributor. I know we work hard to keep the price of energy as low as we can. As we move forward, as I’ve pointed out publicly, we’ve subsidized the Power Corporation over the last three years directly over $50 million to soften the blow and protect rates because of the increasing diesel costs, the fact that we haven’t raised diesel prices for five years to help offset the low water here in the Snare system.

We have moved past the point of where it’s strictly a for-profit, you have to live off your revenues, you have to generate a dividend, to recognizing that as we have moved to a two-rate zone, and actually, we have started actually moving to more of a one-rate zone, we, as a government, have put in more and more money and our relationship with the Power Corporation is now very, very close. It’s not really an arm’s-length corporation. It’s much more consistent with the relationship we have similar to the Power Corporation, and as we move forward into the future that kind of relationship is going to continue.

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final, short supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t doubt or deny that our government has spent millions to try and protect consumers from the rates, but I think we need a campaign directed at the consumers at a household level to get them to do their

part in tandem with the government’s efforts to try and reduce their consumption.

Has that kind of a program ever been researched, and could there be projections done to see what kind of gains we could achieve from that? Thank you.

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

As we move forward on renewables like solar, that we have in place, after some considerable debate over the years, a Net Metering Program which encourages and doesn’t penalize folks for putting in solar in their own buildings. We have removed the cap, we have removed the standby charges. As we look at the charrette, we are going to be asking people for further ways that we can encourage people to look at generating distributed energy that they can generate and that we will buy back through a net metering process. There are those kinds of opportunities that currently exist and are going to continue to exist.

As we gather all these very, very interested and dedicated people around the tables here over the next few days, I’m sure we’re going to find out other things that people recommend that we can do. For example, should we, as a territory, as a government, should we subsidize the wholesale change out of every light bulb in the Northwest Territories to be an LED light within the year? Should we do those types of things?

What other things, in terms of conservation, should we do? We have beefed up our energy standards requirements, both in our own construction and what we encourage people to do when they build in the Northwest Territories. We’re working with industry to set up our first only pellet plant in the Northwest Territories. We spent years building the market, now we are building the industry. That’s going to give us a northern energy source that we believe will be cheaper and we know will save us 30 to 40 percent over the cost of diesel.

So, we are doing an enormous number of things and we are going to continue to do that. We are going to publically say, again, that we are prepared to invest tens upon tens of millions of dollars to help make this transition away from diesel into the more sustainable renewable. Thank you.

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Question 496-17(5): Campaign To Reduce Household Energy Waste

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like the old saying goes, the gas goes in your car, not on your hands. Well, customers and trappers in the Sahtu cannot afford any more spillage at the pumps. They are getting gouged. My question is for Minister Beaulieu today.

Can the Minister tell this House why hunters and trappers, customers in Fort Good Hope, got a trick at the pumps last week instead of a treat? Someone needs to say more than I’m sorry.

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister of Public Works , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The cost of gasoline or diesel motives or heating oil is all based on the purchase costs, the transportation, the commission that it costs us to deliver from our tanks to the homes or the cost of administering what they have there, which we refer to as operations and maintenance as well. Also, we keep track of the product evaporation and taxes. That’s it; there’s no profit on any of the fuels that we sell. Thank you.

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Minister for sharing some of the information and the costs sheets with me. You know there is a gas war happening in Edmonton. It’s $1 per litre.

Would the Minister entertain giving customers, hunters and trappers in the communities like Fort Good Hope, a six-month grace period by selling fuel at the former rate of $1.80? Would he do that?

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, the department, through the petroleum products division, has no ability to subsidize fuel. What we do have is the ability to stabilize the cost, so we have a Stabilization Fund that we use so that there are not sharp fluctuations in the costs. We use that fund to ensure that there isn’t a sharp increase at inappropriate times and so on. This fund, the Petroleum Fund, does not give us the ability to subsidize or we would run out and we would have to change the revolving fund. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, a promise is a promise is a promise. In Fort Good Hope they were promised that they’d be paying less for the fuel. We haven’t yet advanced far enough in our technology with the hunters and trappers to have little squirrels or animals operate our machines. We still rely on gas, and gas is what keeps our lives stable in Fort Good Hope.

I want to task the Minister again, using the Stabilization Fund, can that be used in our communities like Fort Good Hope? The hunters and trappers were told by the government that they will pay less for fuel. Can you give them a grace period, other than to let me know how the system works? That’s what they’re looking for. That’s something that this government could look at doing, to say I’m sorry, we made an oopsie.

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

The Stabilization Fund is there to stabilize the cost of fuel, that is correct; however, it is not there to provide subsidies. What the Member is asking for is for us to take a look at stabilizing at last year’s rate for an indefinite period of time, or six months, then what we would have to do is we would have to recover that cost at some point from somewhere. So, the only place where we have the ability to reduce the cost below the 100 percent is in Colville and Tsiigehtchic. Aside from that, other communities are too big, that once we start to provide any sort of percentage subsidy, it would cost us money and then we would see a reduction in our revolving fund. Thank you.

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . Final, short supplementary. Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to hold this government to account. In the CBC report this month, the government said people in Fort Good Hope would pay less to fill up their vehicles. Someone told the community of Fort Good Hope they would pay less to fill up their vehicles in the community.

Who said that? Which department? Which staff? If that’s not true, then they’ve got to be held accountable, and that’s what I’m saying. Can you say, I’m sorry, this is what we’ll do for this mistake?

It takes a real government to own up to that responsibility and that’s what I’m asking this government, in its goodness of the Stabilization Fund, to give them a grace period. Our fault, we’ll own up to it, we’ll bite the bullet. Because you know what? We just approved a $40 million project for the North, so we do have the money. Stop pretending we don’t have the money; the money is there. Let’s help the people in Fort Good Hope. Let this government be responsible and big enough to say, yes, we made this mistake and we’ll fix it and not goobley gobbling all over the answers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe

The Member is correct that the wrong information and the wrong place was given out, and that was corrected. We had advised the community that that had occurred and we then issued the correct price to the community. However, again, it’s a fairly simple process that we have no ability to subsidize. Like I said to the Member, we do have an ability to stabilize the fund and that’s what we do, we try to stabilize the fund so that the constituents are not seeing sharp costs in fuel fluctuations in the cost of gasoline. So, I will check into exactly what had occurred, what type of information had been given to Fort Good Hope and I can let them know what we can do to resolve that error. Thank you.

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Question 497-17(5): Fuel Prices In Small Communities

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . Member for Inuvik Boot Lake . Mr. Moses .

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Question 498-17(5): Inuvik Arctic Energy And Emerging Technology Conference

Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following up on my Member’s statement on the conference that will happening in 2016 in the community of Inuvik and looking at alternative energy sources and what’s happening in today’s world and in Canada, I’d like to ask the Premier of the Northwest Territories, we’re moving into our second Energy Charrette here starting today.

Has he had any previous discussions with our leadership in the community of Inuvik and is he looking to any types of investments for this very relevant and timely conference that we’ll be having in 2016, seeing that we have enough time ahead of time to really plan and get a good conference going? Has he had any discussions with our leadership and is there any investments that he’s willing to invest in that conference? Thank you.

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Question 498-17(5): Inuvik Arctic Energy And Emerging Technology Conference

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses . The honourable Premier , Mr. McLeod.

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Question 498-17(5): Inuvik Arctic Energy And Emerging Technology Conference

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ve had no discussions with anybody about this conference, other than the Member e-mailing me a press release advising of this change. I expect that in due course the money, or some portion of the money that we contributed for the oil and gas conference would probably be earmarked for a similar conference in 2016. Thank you.

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Question 498-17(5): Inuvik Arctic Energy And Emerging Technology Conference

Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. Outside of monetary commitments for investments and looking forward to this conference, I know that the government also seconds GNWT workers for organizations that also do work on behalf of government. By the time 2016 rolls around and this conference comes out, there’s a good chance we’ll have two, maybe even three charrettes by then and we’ll have a lot of GNWT employees who have a really good grasp of some of these areas in terms of alternative energy, where we’re going to invest.

Would the Premier be looking at putting in some type of recommendation in the transition reports to ensure that we have GNWT employees who are suited for this type of work possibly seconded to help assist with this conference? Thank you.

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Question 498-17(5): Inuvik Arctic Energy And Emerging Technology Conference

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you. The Member recognizes that there’s an election between now and June of 2016, but as a matter of course, we want to make sure that these types of conferences are successful. They provide for a lot of development and bringing investment into the community. By all means, we would do whatever we could to support it so it would be successful. Thank you.

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Question 498-17(5): Inuvik Arctic Energy And Emerging Technology Conference

Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

In the press release, it mentioned that the Town of Inuvik is going to start preparing to have a very successful conference and trade show. In terms of any reports that do come out of the Energy Charrette that we had previous and this Energy Charrette, will the Premier ensure that the mayor and council as well as the staff that are focusing on this conference be on the distribution list or will they be able to get a copy of the report so that they can see where the government is going and possibly focus their conference on the same wavelength? Thank you.

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Question 498-17(5): Inuvik Arctic Energy And Emerging Technology Conference

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

I believe the mayor of Inuvik is part of the Energy Charrette, and by all means, the outcomes of the Energy Charrette will be in the public domain. So, they certainly will be available to the organizers of the Inuvik Arctic Energy and Alternative Technologies Show. Thank you.

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Question 498-17(5): Inuvik Arctic Energy And Emerging Technology Conference

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Member for Range Lake , Mr. Dolynny .

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On May 12, 2011, the Finance Minister in Committee of the Whole stated, “We’ve been working diligently on a P3 policy for government. That policy has been to committee. We have had extensive feedback. We have what we think is a workable P3 policy.” According to public records on that same day, a Public-Private Partnership Policy No. 15.02 was born and on that same day the Minister also reassured the House, “I can assure the Member that the P3 policy, once in its place, will be followed by government and there’s a built-in full engagement of committees as well.” My questions today are for the Minister of Finance .

We have today what is referred to as non-statutory P3 related policy and not legislation. Real P3 legislation, which at times is referenced by the Minister as very prevalent now across the country, entails what is called “vinculum juris,” or the “network of rights,” duties, liabilities and so forth. Unfortunately, this policy does not. In fact, this six-page P3 policy merely reflects the objectives of the government and grossly lacks institutional framework.

How can the Minister assure the public this non-statutory policy will stack up to the rigour of public confidence? Thank you.

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny . Minister of Finance , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Clearly, in this case, the proof will be in the pudding. We’ve laid out all the steps that we are following, the rigour and due diligence that we’re putting through in evaluating whether in fact the Stanton Hospital would even make the test for a valid P3 project and we have very capable people that are going to look at implementing the policy that we do have. It will be held accountable. It’s going to be a transparent process and we will engage on an ongoing basis with the appropriate committees. Thank you.

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

Let me remind the Minister,

an act is designed to improve public operational efficiency, environmental performance, promote safety, attract the right private investment and minimize public liabilities. This P3 policy does not.

So again, how can the Minister stand before this House and denounce what is in the interest of public of a proper accountability and transparency process? Why did the department just not enact proper legislation rather than support and promote a policy? Thank you.

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you. If the Member has specific suggestions other than we should do legislation, we’d be happy to look at those at this juncture.

If there is going to be any legislation considered, that would be now part of transition planning for the 18th Legislative Assembly.

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

Thank you. The public has been led to believe that this lesser degree of scrutiny under a P3 policy rather than legislative process is what will guide and govern the decision-making of hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars of public money.

Can the Minister elaborate by what statutory obligation will general liability tort third-party liability for taxation or general risk liabilities be covered with the inadequacies of a non-statutory P3 policy? Thank you.

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you. It was a long question, lots of technical requests, legal references. Let me just assure the public and the Member opposite that, at the end of the day, $350 million will be invested in Stanton. It will be a state-of-the-art facility, it will last us well past the time that I’m still walking God’s green earth and it will be something that we’ll all be very, very proud of. Thank you.

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny .

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

Thank you. We’ve come to expect these types of responses from the Minister. To my opening comments today where the Minister assures there would be a built-in, full engagement of the committees on this P3 policy, upon review of the policy, it only briefly mentions standing committee would be involved in the proposal assessment phase, yet fails to prescribe exactly by what means this would happen.

Can the Minister elaborate? Where is the full engagement as promised? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

We’d be happy to sit down with committee if there are concerns by committee on the process going forward. We’d be happy to have those discussions to make sure it is as fulsome, integrated and engaged as possible as befits consensus government. Thank you.

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Question 499-17(5): Public-Private Partnership Policy

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Blake .

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Question 500-17(5): Expansion Of Alternative Energy Programs

Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In follow-up to my Member’s statement, I’d like to ask the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources a few questions.

Over the last few years, his department has worked with the Arctic Energy Alliance to install woodstoves in the communities. Moving forward, will that continue? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 500-17(5): Expansion Of Alternative Energy Programs

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake . The Minister of Environment and Natural Resources , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 500-17(5): Expansion Of Alternative Energy Programs

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we intend to maintain our commitment and enhance our commitment to alternative energies, to biomass, and one of the questions that’s going to be posed tonight is what type of regulation and legislation do we need, in fact, to allow us to enhance woodstove use, biomass, solar use. Are there specific pieces of legislation that other jurisdictions may have, because we don’t have any right now. We have legislation that governs oil and gas installations and those types of things, so we are very interested in that. We’ve got pathfinders in the regions.

We’re going to be looking at training more people so that, in fact, you can do the proper inspections and get the insurance coverage and those types of issues dealt with as well.

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Question 500-17(5): Expansion Of Alternative Energy Programs

Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

That sounds good. I’d like to ask the Minister, how is the department working with the communities who have taken on biomass to expand?

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Question 500-17(5): Expansion Of Alternative Energy Programs

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

We work with communities on a community-by-community project basis at this point. Where there is an interest, for example, in the Member’s community of McPherson there has been waste heat work done. We have been studying the viability of using fast growing willows as a source of biomass in addition to all the other standard programs of general applications that are there for all businesses and individuals to apply for. We’re also, of course, very interested in working with communities as they do their own energy plans, to see what long-term planning needs to be done to ensure things are integrated and fit both for the community but are part of the broader planning of the government.

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Question 500-17(5): Expansion Of Alternative Energy Programs

Oral Questions

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Aside from one of the diamond mines, we don’t really have any wind turbines within the Northwest Territories except for a miniature one that’s always been up in Inuvik.

I’d like to ask the Minister, when does the Minister estimate the first wind turbine to be operating in the Northwest Territories communities?

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Question 500-17(5): Expansion Of Alternative Energy Programs

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

The most viable site, in my mind, is a place called Storm Hills, between Inuvik and Tuk, where they’ve been doing wind mapping for some time now. We’re looking at the viability of that site, and we know that if we put in six, seven megawatts, eight megawatts of power between Tuk and Inuvik, you could cut the diesel consumption for the production of electricity in half, and wind is free. We just have to work on the money. Part of the commitment here going forward with the charrette is the investment in those types of very fundamental community infrastructures that will allow us to make a serious dent into the reliance on diesel.

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Question 500-17(5): Expansion Of Alternative Energy Programs

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are addressed today to the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation. I spoke in my statement about the fact that we are now giving up on the plans for power generation and transmission. The government’s message that we’ve been hearing in the last month or two is that we’re moving on to smaller projects now. I mentioned in my statement about community biomass, power and heat systems.

I’d like to first ask the Minister, has there been any work or any research done on community biomass, power and heat systems to date, and what has it told us?

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The Minister of the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Out of the first charrette came the direction to look at the issue of the distribution and the transmission grid build-out where we could hook up the Snare system and the Taltson system and investigate the cost of an intertie to Saskatchewan where we could potentially move cheaper power from places like Manitoba and north. We did that. It came back in at about $1.2 billion, probably more than double what we had initially estimated.

Rather than keep pursuing that or not do anything, we have recognized the need to change our focus to generation, and not just small generation, but we know, for example, that Yellowknife is in serious need of additional generation capacity both to offset things like lower water, minimize use of diesel, but to pick up extra growth and demand and potentially service the mines.

In regard to the question about the biomass small scale, we know from our research, in fact, we just had a meeting this morning with some of the participants from the charrette. There’s a gentleman over from Germany who has installed over 3,400 different installations around Europe and some in Canada that is eminently feasible to look at that type of generation. You put in some potential batteries or diesel backup or biomass and solar, you have an opportunity to provide a very consistent, affordable, made-in-the-North type of energy source.

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Certainly, he mentions Europe. I think it was probably three or four years ago now that we had a mission, so to speak, of Members who went to Europe. It was certainly evident in Europe at that time, and I imagine technology has advanced a great deal since then. The Minister is saying that it’s 3,400 systems, I think, this gentleman has put in, in Europe.

Why are we not doing it here? It’s been possible for us to do it here probably for the last four years. I’d like to know from the Minister what is holding us up from implementing a pilot or basically implementing a community biomass heating and power system?

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

We started this process in the last Assembly with spending the time to develop our biomass strategy. Part of that strategy was to build a market, then look at building the industry, and we’ve done that. We’ve converted a significant amount of our own facilities to biomass. We’ve taken those savings and reinvested them. We’ve set up incentives to encourage people to switch to biomass.

We’ve now just completed two FMA agreements, the first of their kind, forest management agreements, with the people in Providence and the people in Lutselk'e to lay out access to a source of wood fibre, so that we have a private individual that is going to put up a wood pellet plant in Enterprise that is going to be churning out tens of thousands of cubic metres of wood pellets that are going to be part of that initiative.

Now that we’ve proved out that the transmission initiative is beyond our capabilities financially, we’re switching our focus to generation, and we are now looking very, very seriously, through this charrette and other preliminary work that we’ve already done, at what kind of capacity do we have for that type of configuration of biomass and solar plus diesel backup, for example, in Yellowknife, but also all the other thermal communities.

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

To the Minister, I guess I have to say – my colleague has corrected me – it was six years ago that we heard how successful community plants are in Europe, but nothing has come to fruition. The Minister mentions a lot of small things. Sure, we’re pushing biomass boilers in individual facilities, but we’re not developing one at a community level.

I’d like to ask the Minister, is it conceivable that this concept of a community biomass system will be part of the charrette discussions, because maybe if it comes out of the charrette it will put a little bit of a fire under our rear-end and we’ll get something in place.

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

I would like to point out that one of our areas of interest where we’ve invested a considerable amount of money has, in fact, been on development of our solar strategy and the solar arrays that we’ve put into Simpson, one of the largest in the country up to the point that it was built, and the pilot project that we’re working on in Colville Lake, where we’re putting in a significant amount of solar power with batteries to look at how much we can maximize penetration into that service system so that we can minimize the cost and reliance on diesel.

Now, as the technology has improved, and I’ve mentioned this in the House, that we know that just south of us, in La Crete, they’ve got a 40 megawatt biomass plant. We know that they have a 200 megawatt plant that they just refurbished, a coal fire plant in northern Ontario, and that BC is doing the same thing. We are seriously looking at that now that we are focused very, very intently on generation.

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

It will be very short. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister. I’d like to know from the Minister, when can we expect to see a community energy biomass system?

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

I don’t believe I’ve used this phrase since the last Assembly, but in due course and the fullness of time as these discussions advance through the charrette, we will look at moving as fast as we can. The question is going to be, how do we get from talk to action? How much money are we going to be able to put into these initiatives? Clearly, the intent is to seriously move with great alacrity on this particular issue. Thank you.

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Question 501-17(5): Community Biomass Energy Systems

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Question 502-17(5): Integrated Northern Energy System

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Premier today as the head of our energy issues. The recent comment in the House about renewable energy was that from an economic or commercial objective, you would be lucky to recover your capital costs within 15 to 20 years and by then you are almost at the point of replacement, so the vicious cycle repeats itself. Such uninformed and misleading statements undermine the very opportunity that citizens have to help themselves to cut energy costs and they derail effective government action yielding the unaffordable energy costs of today.

That didn’t come from that side of the House, Mr. Speaker, but a simple review of Public Works and Services’ energy project indicates simple payback, as short as a year or two. Solar panels themselves are guaranteed for 25 years.

So my question is: At tomorrow’s charrette, how has the Premier assured that the think-tank will start off with accurate baseline information and with the principles and the context that affordable energy systems must be based on from now on? Mahsi.

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Question 502-17(5): Integrated Northern Energy System

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Premier , Mr. McLeod.

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Question 502-17(5): Integrated Northern Energy System

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not sure whether the Member is attributing the comment to myself or to some anonymous source or not, but by all means, it is our intention to make sure that the charrette is informed as we go forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 502-17(5): Integrated Northern Energy System

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

The Premier didn’t catch that. I said it was from this side of the House. The one-size-fits-all power system has been disastrous for our communities. In fact, community generation opportunities are diverse, from geothermal in Fort Liard and Yellowknife, to small scale hydro in Wekweeti, to solar in Colville. NTPC has considerable experience in some areas, but solutions may or may not overlap with their experience.

How has the Premier ensured that NTPC plays a supportive role rather than an influential role on the direction the charrette takes, given their record of short stopping community-owned renewable energy systems to date? Mahsi.

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Question 502-17(5): Integrated Northern Energy System

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Over the past two assemblies, the role of NTPC has evolved. We now have the Ministerial Energy Coordination Committee, where all of the Ministers and departments that have responsibilities in this area come together, and the Power Corporation is working much more closely with the government to fulfill the objectives of the government, and certainly we are recognizing that one size fits all is not necessarily the way to go. We are looking to the Energy Charrette to point us in the right direction. Thank you.

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Question 502-17(5): Integrated Northern Energy System

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thanks to the Premier . If new clean and renewable energy systems are to have a maximum economic benefit for our communities, they must be locally owned and operated. Buy-in, efficiency, community self-sufficiency and economic stability are all positive impacts of locally based power systems.

What steps has the Premier taken to ensure discussions are open to, or directed to, consider a community-based approach to energy solutions moving forward? Mahsi.

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Question 502-17(5): Integrated Northern Energy System

Oral Questions

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

We’ve endeavored to have a very representative group at the Energy Charrette. We have over 130 people, I believe, that will be there. It is our expectation that with the facilitators that we have, with the speakers that we have, the outcomes will be focussed in that direction and certainly we are very prepared, as the ENR Minister has said, and the Finance Minister has said, we are prepared to move in that direction, pending the outcome of the charrette. Thank you.

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Question 502-17(5): Integrated Northern Energy System

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley .

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Question 502-17(5): Integrated Northern Energy System

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is good to hear. Cabinet’s recent subsidy of $20 million to cover diesel generation due to climate change-induced drought brings a total over the past few years, as we’ve heard, to $58 million if we ignore the indirect subsidy effects or costs. This perpetuates our reliance on diesel, obviously, by taking resources that could have been used to develop renewable energy systems and pouring them into a seemingly bottomless tank of diesel.

Has the Premier , or if not will he, include the qu