Debates of Oct. 14th, 2004

This is page numbers 739 - 766 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was languages .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Fiscal Update

NWT Fire Service Merit Awards Program

Motion To Move Minister's Statement 49-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole

Human Resource And Morale Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Amendments To Impaired Driving Legislation

Ministers' Visits To Nunakput

North Slave Correctional Centre Concerns

Shortage Of Affordable Housing

Reduction Of Rcmp Services In Nahendeh

Access To Fas/e Treatment

Spiritual Gathering At The Lockhart River

Condolences On The Passing Of Joanne Nazon

Committee Report 7-15(3): Review Of The Information And Privacy Commissioner's Annual Report 2002-2003

Motion To Receive Committee Report 7-15(3) And Move To Committee Of The Whole

Committee Report 8-15(3): Report On The Review Of The Languages Commissioner's Annual Report 2003-2004

Motion To Receive And Adopt Committee Report 8-15(3)

Item 5: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Reduction Of Rcmp Services In Nahendeh

Community Court Circuit

Schedule Reduction

Procedures For Accessing Court Translation Services

Private Sector Investment In Housing Development

Senior Management Turnover At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Written Question 34-15(3): Fort Good Hope Water Treatment Plant

Tabled Document 64-15(3): Pension Administration Report - Retiring Allowances Act And Supplementary Retiring Allowances Act, At March 31, 2004

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 739

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister of Finance , Honourable Mr. Roland .

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Minister's Statement 49-15(3): Fiscal Update

Item 1: Prayer

Page 739

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to provide an update on the government's fiscal situation.

The budget I presented in this House in March laid out a fiscal plan that would allow us to achieve the goals of NWT residents while achieving fiscal sustainability. The budget did not make dramatic changes. We wanted an opportunity to consult with northerners before finalizing our plans for the term of the 15th Assembly. As Premier Handley noted in his sessional statement yesterday, this House has consulted with NWT residents to help us set an overall vision and goals for the government and people of the Northwest Territories. Our vision focuses on self-reliance and shared responsibility.

However, we need to be able to reconcile our goals with our fiscal resources. One of the priorities of the budget was establishing fiscal sustainability. This involved a combination of revenue increases, expenditure reallocations, and achieving a better fiscal deal from Canada. Without these, the GNWT will not have the resources to support our most important goals and priorities. Achieving long-term fiscal sustainability is vital to achieving our vision.

The public accounts for the 2003-04 fiscal year, which I tabled yesterday, show an operating deficit of $65 million, $13 million less than was projected in the March budget.

Mr. Speaker, we are now halfway through the current fiscal year and I am pleased to report that we are on track to meet our fiscal targets.

First, the Legislative Assembly approved three revenue initiatives earlier this year. These will generate an estimated $10 million in 2004-05.

Second, the 2004-05 budget included $15 million in expenditure reallocations and identified the need for a further $40 million in spending reallocations in future years. These reallocations will be a source of funding for priority programs and forced growth.

Third, we believe we have made significant progress in our funding arrangements with Canada.

As the Premier has noted, last month's First Ministers' meeting on health care was a very positive one from the North's perspective. We received good news with respect to funding, both for specific health care and under our formula financing arrangements. On the health side, the GNWT will have about $10 million a year extra to improve access and to help with our high medical travel costs. On the formula financing side, there is a strong indication that we may receive some of the financial relief that we have sought for so long from the federal government.

The federal government has put proposals on the table for both the federal/provincial equalization program and for federal/territorial formula financing. The formula proposal means additional funding for the territories, but it also involves some significant changes to the way our funding has been determined for the last 20 years.

The Premier will be meeting with his territorial colleagues and the Prime Minister later this month to discuss how the federal proposal will work and what exactly it means to us in new funding.

In addition, what our formula will look like after 2005-2006 may largely depend on the results of the work of an independent commission, the details of which will not be discussed until the next First Ministers' meeting on October 26th. As a result, we need to be cautious when we forecast our long-term fiscal situation. This uncertainty means that we cannot become complacent or lose our focus on fiscal responsibility.

Once we have a clear picture of our fiscal position, we can decide how to best use our resources. A key priority should be financing our capital investments. Over the last few years, our fiscal situation has limited what we could afford to invest in capital infrastructure and this has resulted in a significant shortfall and must be addressed. To do this, it is not enough just to balance the government's operating budget. We must generate an operating surplus to provide the cash to at least partially finance our capital investments.

The government also has to make a large $300 million cash payment to the federal government in 2006-07 to reimburse Canada for an overpayment on our corporate income tax entitlements in 2002. This repayment must be provided for in our cash planning.

For these reasons, we must be cautious in how we proceed in our fiscal planning for the next few years. As decision-makers, we owe it to the residents of the Northwest Territories to ensure that government is operating efficiently and that our programs are achieving acceptable results for the money we are spending on them. We intend to continue with the budget plan to identify areas for redirecting our spending from lower to higher-priority areas. The measures required to achieve this have been developed through a rigorous planning and prioritization process and we see no reason to alter them at this time.

To conclude, Mr. Speaker, the fiscal position of the Government of the Northwest Territories is brighter than the picture I described last March.

---Applause

We have made substantive progress on the revenue side, both with own-source revenues and transfers, and we have also made progress on the expenditure side. By the time the 2005-06 budget is presented next February, I will provide a more detailed fiscal picture, one that shows how we can achieve our vision and long-term fiscal sustainability. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 49-15(3): Fiscal Update

Item 1: Prayer

Page 740

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod .

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Minister's Statement 50-15(3): NWT Fire Service Merit Awards Program

Item 1: Prayer

Page 740

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, October 4th to 10th was National Fire Prevention Week, so this is a fitting time to announce the recipients of this year's Northwest Territories Fire Service Merit Awards program.

In 2002, our government established the Fire Service Merit Awards, a new program to recognize the contribution of individual firefighters and fire departments in the Northwest Territories.

This year, the department once again sought nominations to recognize the special contribution of individual firefighters. Individual nominations are assessed by a panel of local and territorial fire service officials, against a set of established criteria. These nominations have now been reviewed and I am pleased to announce the 2004 winners.

The individual Fire Service Merit Award recipients for 2004 are: Dustin Smith of the Fort Smith Fire Department, and Duane Debastien of the Inuvik Fire Department.

Mr. Smith has also been chosen as the recipient of the 2004 Territorial Fire Service Merit Award.

The department also received nominations for the Community Fire Service Merit Award. This award is presented to recognize the efforts of one outstanding fire department and the entire community in improving the local fire protection system.

The assessment process to determine the community merit award winner has now been completed and I am pleased to announce that the 2004 Community Fire Service Merit Award goes to the Town of Fort Smith fire division.

Mr. Speaker, ceremonies to recognize the winners will be held in their home communities in the near future. I would ask all Members of the Legislative Assembly to please join me in congratulating the two recipients of the individual wards and the Town of Fort Smith. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 50-15(3): NWT Fire Service Merit Awards Program

Item 1: Prayer

Page 740

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The Chair will recognize the honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 49-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 1: Prayer

Page 740

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Range Lake , that Minister's Statement 49-15(3) be moved into Committee of the Whole. Thank you.

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 49-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 1: Prayer

Page 740

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 49-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 1: Prayer

Page 740

An Hon. Member

Question.

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Motion To Move Minister's Statement 49-15(3) Into Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 1: Prayer

Page 740

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Minister's Statement 49-15(3) will be moved into Committee of the Whole. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Human Resource And Morale Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 740

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues, for the opportunity to rise in the House today to speak about an issue that just does not seem to want to go away. The issue I'm referring to is the North Slave Correctional Centre. Whether it's an inmate or an employee phoning me, it seems that issues surrounding the facility and its operation continue to pile up.

I'll start firstly with staff morale at the centre. It is taking a continued pounding, even though last spring we had hoped that a change of scenery to a new building would help the state of mind of the employees. Employee issues centre around such items as safety, security, fair hiring practices, and the government dragging its heels on the retroactive monies due and payable to many of the staff at the centre.

I find it very interesting that last spring when I was questioning the Minister of Justice about concerns that were raised to me about staff morale and human resource concerns, he did not want to admit that there were some serious concerns at that centre. Just recently, a full internal human resource review began at the centre. Perhaps now the Minister will admit changes have to be made. I'm very concerned about what this review will say and how recommendations flowing from it will be acted upon.

If history repeats itself, I will be waiting a very, very long time to see anything from the Minister or his department on this review.

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Human Resource And Morale Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 740

Some Hon. Members

Shame, shame.

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Human Resource And Morale Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 740

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

As many of you will recall, I had asked numerous questions about a health services audit that was conducted at the centre months ago. The reason the audit was initiated was the fact that I had received a petition signed by over 100 inmates at the centre about some very grave concerns they had about the way health services were being delivered at the North Slave Correctional Centre. To this day, I still have not received even a watered-down version or any other version of what

that audit said, even though I've asked numerous times for it. What changes have been made -- and I would like to know this, too, and I'll ask questions at the appropriate time -- to address the concerns that were outlined in that audit, and where is the watered-down version from the department that I was looking for?

Mr. Speaker, I certainly will have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time. Thank you.

---Applause

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Human Resource And Morale Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 741

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you. Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Amendments To Impaired Driving Legislation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 741

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to speak in support of the anti-drinking and driving campaign launched by the Minister of Transportation on October 6th.

---Applause

The campaign is aimed at making the public aware of the changes to the rules and consequences of drinking and driving in the Northwest Territories. Approved amendments to the Motor Vehicles Act will come into force on December 1, 2004. These changes are a substantive improvement to the act, providing enforcement officers with another tool to get drivers who insist on getting behind the wheel, after consuming alcohol, off our streets.

Households across the NWT received a pamphlet in the mail alerting them to the tough, new administrative rules. Drivers caught for the first time with blood alcohol levels between .05 and .08 will automatically have their licence suspended for 24 hours. The consequences of subsequent offences are progressively more severe. These changes mean that the legislation finally has some teeth, and drivers under the influence of alcohol will not be tolerated on our streets and highways.

I applaud the work of the many individuals who worked over a period of years to bring about the amendments to the Motor Vehicles Act. I also congratulate the Minister, Mr. McLeod , and his staff for a great job with the advertising campaign alerting northerners to the changes. It is an unnecessary tragedy that over 75,000 Canadians are affected by drinking and driving directly each year, and it is, quite frankly, unacceptable that statistically per capita we are worse off in the North. It gives me great pleasure that, as legislators, we are finally doing something about this problem.

The amendments to the act establish the NWT as a Canadian leader in the use of legislation to deter impaired driving. Mr. Speaker, this is something we can all be very proud of. Thank you.

---Applause

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Amendments To Impaired Driving Legislation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 741

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Ministers' Visits To Nunakput

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 741

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Before I begin, I would like to say that after the swearing in of the 15th Assembly, I indicated to the Premier that I would show no more emotions. However, with the situation ongoing in Tuktoyaktuk, I became emotional yesterday. I would like to thank my colleagues for the moment of silent prayer. Thank you to my colleague, Mr. Dave Ramsay, for concluding my Member's statement.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday my colleague from Nahendeh talked about the tour he conducted with the Ministers. I, too, at this time would like to thank Premier Joe Handley , Ministers Roland, Bell, Krutko, McLeod, Dent and Miltenberger for touring the riding of Nunakput in June and August, respectively. During the tour, there were many common themes raised for these meetings. Issues were raised for education, health, social services, municipal services, policing services, transportation, and global warming; for example, erosion. Mr. Speaker, many of these issues raised by my constituents will be brought up during the life of the 15th Assembly.

Members may remember that Prime Minister Paul Martin and Ethel Blondin-Andrew visited our beautiful community of Tuktoyaktuk and, although the visit was brief, the mayor and council and myself briefly highlighted some of the issues, such as the all-weather road between Tuktoyaktuk and Inuvik and the erosion problem. Although the Tuktoyaktuk-Inuvik highway is not the responsibility of the GNWT, I will continue to pursue this matter with the Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod .

Mr. Speaker, in closing, once again, thank you to the Premier and the Ministers for taking the time from their busy schedules to visit my riding of Nunakput. There is a lot of work ahead during the next three years and I will continue to pursue and accomplish some or all of the issues raised by my constituents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Ministers' Visits To Nunakput

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 741

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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North Slave Correctional Centre Concerns

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 741

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, further to the statement by the Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay , I'd like to also speak about the Department of Justice and its human resources management, the morale of the department, the corrections division, and the North Slave Correctional Centre, in particular.

Mr. Speaker, I understand very clearly that the internal management of a government department or division should not be a topic of discussion in the Assembly as a normal course of business. I know that this is something that the Minister feels very strongly about, too. At the same time, Mr. Speaker, I have an obligation as a Member of the Assembly and to the constituents that I serve to see that things they tell me and the information they give me in confidence are given full consideration.

Upon such reflections and deliberation of the information I have become privy to, I feel that it is in the interest of the public that we bring this into the public so that we can discuss it and address some of the concerns that are being raised. I can assure you that I will do this in a way that is respectful of the individuals involved.

Mr. Speaker, I must tell you that people are very, very hesitant to talk about what's going on, but they feel compelled to because they feel that it's in the public interest to do so. Mr. Speaker, I want to say that I know personally many of the senior managers in the department and I'm sure that they're working very hard in their jobs with very good intentions. But I feel compelled to raise the red flag at this juncture so that I can motivate them to evaluate themselves more deliberately and see what they're doing well and what they're not doing well and how things can be improved.

In fact, I have always been a strong believer and a supporter of the work being done by the corrections division, especially the community corrections because I used to work there and I believe in the cause. But I need to tell them that the calls of concerns are becoming increasingly more frequent and more disconcerting.

Mr. Speaker, at one point in the last Assembly, it seemed like there was a direct line to my office from the Stanton hospital. Such were the calls and letters that I was receiving from many of the concerned employees there. It turned out that many of their concerns were very legitimate and needed to be taken care of. I can tell you that the similar drum beat is growing at an increasing rate from the corrections division and the North Slave Correctional Centre of the Department of Justice.

I don't think what I'm saying here is coming as a surprise, Mr. Speaker, because the Minister has already initiated an internal review, except that we're not clear at this point what the scope and terms of reference are and I will be pursuing this further at the question period later today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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North Slave Correctional Centre Concerns

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 742

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Shortage Of Affordable Housing

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 742

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, one of the major elements of our society and our economy today, in terms of things that are not working very well for us, continues to be the shortages, and in some areas, some sectors, Mr. Speaker, a crises in social and affordable housing across the Northwest Territories. This applies to small communities and, of course, here in Yellowknife we're on a sustained situation with this difficulty.

Our Housing Corporation tells us that there are across the Territories some 3,000 families in core need of a safe, affordable place to live. Mr. Speaker, this situation continues to erode the quality and stability of life for thousands of our residents. Affordable housing is one of the most common topics that comes up when I speak with constituents and residents of Yellowknife.

There's almost universal agreement that affordability is connected to many family, economic and social issues and is perhaps best illustrated by the never-ending waiting list for transitional housing managed by the YWCA here in Yellowknife and for the waiting list in social housing with the housing authorities across the NWT.

Higher rental and apartment construction has raised the supply of rental units and helped increase availability, and the important role of the private sector should be acknowledged. I've tried to do this whenever I can, Mr. Speaker; to acknowledge the investment that continues to be made, at least here in Yellowknife, in the housing stock we have. Information that I have suggests that we'll see about 120 new rentals under construction in the city this year, adding to about 1,600 that we already have. In normal circumstances, this would improve not only availability, but affordability.

But increased construction costs and pressure from a very lively economy are continuing to put upward pressure on the cost of housing, and electricity and heating costs are going to hit hard this year.

As the private sector continues to invest, at least in Yellowknife, other communities are not so fortunate. Mr. Speaker, I want to repeat a message that has often been said in this House and that has had considerable success in other jurisdictions. The message is that government should continue to strive to put incentives and opportunities in place for the private sector to continue to do what they do best. Thank you.

---Applause

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Shortage Of Affordable Housing

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 742

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Reduction Of Rcmp Services In Nahendeh

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 742

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my constituents and I continue to be very concerned about the plan to reduce the number of police officers working at the Fort Simpson RCMP detachment. I first raised this issue in the House in May of this year. At that time, the elimination of one of the staff positions in question was only proposed. Since then, the plan has been implemented and we now have one less police officer in the Nahendeh riding. Unfortunately, Mr.

Speaker, even though the change has been made, we still have not received a full and comprehensive explanation from the RCMP as to why the staff complement had to be reduced. We have only been told that the RCMP made the decision based on crime statistics and other indicators.

Mr. Speaker, I have been advised by the Minister of Justice that the arrangement we have with the RCMP is essentially a fee-for-service and that it is the sole responsibility of the RCMP to allocate their resources, including personnel, as they think best. Be that as it may, at the same time, I believe my constituents have the right to know why particularly important decisions have been made; decisions that will affect their safety and well-being. We have only been told that the decision may be reversed at some time in the future if conditions change.

But, Mr. Speaker, we need to know why this decision was made in the first place. We need to know precisely what factors were considered when making the decision so we can determine what must change in order to have the position refilled. Already, we are seeing a sizable increase in industrial resource development in my region. Preliminary work has begun on the proposed Mackenzie Valley pipeline. These developments will have significant impacts on all communities and people. Now is the time to be expanding police services, not cutting them back.

Not only have we lost the position, but it is a senior position, a corporal that we have lost. This raises additional questions about the capacity of the detachment to function adequately given that it is manned with junior officers with little or no northern experience. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Reduction Of Rcmp Services In Nahendeh

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 743

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may continue your statement, Mr. Menicoche .

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Reduction Of Rcmp Services In Nahendeh

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 743

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

I would like to thank my honourable colleagues for allowing me to conclude my statement.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that in April of this year, the total complement of RCMP officers in the NWT was increased by 7.5. To have the number of officers in the Nahendeh riding decrease at the same time presupposes a significant decline in the need for the police services. We must assume a significant increase in the need elsewhere. Yet, Mr. Speaker, we have been given no indication or assurance that this is indeed the case. I believe my constituents deserve a full and proper explanation. I will continue to seek one.

---Applause

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Reduction Of Rcmp Services In Nahendeh

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 743

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Access To Fas/e Treatment

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 743

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to use this opportunity, through my Member's statement, to bring forward a concern that has been bothering some constituents of mine. Mr. Speaker, I can't name the person because this person happens to be a youth, but a family has called me on numerous occasions over the past year. It concerns their dealings with the Department of Health and Social Services about getting their child into treatment.

Mr. Speaker, we have a young northerner here who has FAE. This person is seriously at risk. It is time that something gets done. This family has been trying to deal with this situation for many years. They have been trying to work with the department. Mr. Speaker, these people, the parents that I am talking about, are good people. They are really trying, but, unfortunately, they are at the end of their ropes. They don't know what to do. They have been going to the department. Now they are getting new workers and new assessments.

The parents are just begging, "Send our child out for treatment!" Their child has been in Bosco Homes, so there is a history of the child receiving treatment in the past. This child needs treatment now.

Some day, this child will no longer be a youth. The Minister responsible for this situation, who used to be a former social worker, will understand the importance of early treatment and intervention. We may never be able to reverse the effects of FAE. However, we can mitigate the future problems by doing something now. So how long are we going to wait for this terrible situation? Do we need another assessment? Because we already know the history of this person. I don't think it is beyond relative, straightforward thinking to say let's do something finally. This family needs a commitment. The concern is how much longer are we going to wait.

The Department of Health and Social Services is continually hot-potatoing this issue around. Is it a question of they don't want to spend the money? Do they not want to derive a bit of time for this young person? Because the issue here is, if they don't provide services, well, I can guarantee you today the Department of Justice will be providing services for this young adult in the future through three square meals a day and programming. So if we don't help them on this side of the government, I can guarantee you today we will be on the other side of the government. Mr.

Speaker, I am just going to close my Member's statement by basically saying we are failing our kids, so we should darn well fail ourselves. Thank you.

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Access To Fas/e Treatment

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 743

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Spiritual Gathering At The Lockhart River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 743

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this summer, I was blessed with the opportunity to attend a spiritual gathering east of Reliance on Great Slave Lake near the mouth of the Lockhart River, along with many other constituents of Tu Nedhe. Also, we were lucky to have a visit by our Premier during this spiritual gathering. The spiritual significance of this river is not only very important to the spiritual well-being of the residents of Tu Nedhe, but it also allows residents of Tu Nedhe and surrounding areas to come together to share oral history and prayer along with many evenings of laughter and drum dancing.

Mr. Speaker, during the gathering, there were scheduled flights, about 15 minutes long, to a place called the Lady of the Falls where people go to pray, make offerings, and ask the old lady of the falls for help in any aspects of their lives that they wish. Although the plans for everyone who made the day trip to the falls were to be returned safe and sound back to the main camp, there was one group of 27 people who had the unfortunate but enlightening experience of spending the night out at the falls on August 11, 2004, because of cancellations of the return flights due to heavy smoke in the area.

Mr. Speaker, I was one of these people who had this opportunity to camp out without tents, blankets or food. With 19 of these people stranded, being elders, we had a formidable task of erecting two spruce bough shelters using one small hatchet which, luckily, someone had left behind from a previous visit, and also keeping the elders warm throughout the night. Mr. Speaker, with sound minds and good cooperation and high spirits, the shelters were erected in a timely manner before dark and in a fashion only experienced northern hunters and trappers could appreciate, not to mention the vast amount of blueberries and traditional tea we had available for consumption.

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to say that everyone returned safely to the main camp the following morning thanks to people like Eddy Lafferty, Jerry Sanderson, Paul Boucher, my brother Gord, and many other individuals who stayed up all night to keep the three fires going, and others like Skinny-man and Archie Smith, who kept everyone's spirits up with their good humour. Everyone seemed to be quite content about the whole ordeal and opted to not express

any negative feelings about the whole incident upon return.

This was also reinforced by the silver lining of this whole experience...I ask the Members if I can continue my statement.

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Spiritual Gathering At The Lockhart River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 744

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may continue your statement, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Spiritual Gathering At The Lockhart River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 744

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Members. This decision was also reinforced by the silver lining of the whole experience that Chief Catholique offered later in the evening in that the oral history of the Lady of the Falls says that if you go to seek help from the Lady of the Falls, then your prayers will be better received and answered if only one spends the night at the falls, which many visitors heed that advice to this day. With that, Mr.

Speaker, I am thankful that my prayers were answered by having the Lady of the Falls, along with some of the assistance of the Lutselk'e band manager, Irvin Norn, in keeping my two children, Robyn and Andre, aged 8 and 11, fed and safe for the 20 hours that they had to spend alone in camp. So I say thank you and God bless to everyone that had to spend the night out on that day and it has allowed me to realize that birthday gifts do sometimes come in the most unexpected packages. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Spiritual Gathering At The Lockhart River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 744

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Condolences On The Passing Of Joanne Nazon

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 744

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon, friends. At this time, I would like to send condolences to the Nazon family in Tsiigehtchic on the passing of Joanne Nazon, who was a well-respected elder who was well into her 90s and would have been 91 next week. Joanne left behind a large family. Regards to the Ross family and the Nazon family. At this time, I would like to send condolences to Richard, Peter, Ross and family, Margaret Nazon, the McDonald family, and Louise Lennie and family.

More importantly, I would like to send condolences out to the people of Tsiigehtchic. This is a great loss to the people of the Mackenzie Delta. Joanne was well respected to everybody who knew her. She had a smile on her face every time you met her. She lit up a room every time she came to a meeting or a feast or just to visit the different communities. People like Joanne are one of a kind. It is most important that we cherish the lives of those people who go on to a better place.

More importantly, we celebrate the lives of these people who have lived well into their 90s who raised not only one family, but in this case she raised two families. Her family, her children, her grandchildren and all her great-grandchildren can look back to their grandmother knowing that she did her job. She lived a long life. She shared with everyone around her and also for everyone who knew her.

More importantly, she had left us all with something that we can cherish for the rest of our lives by just knowing her. With that, I would like to send condolences to the family, the people of Tsiigehtchic, and more importantly to the people of Mackenzie Delta. I would like to take this time to celebrate the life of Joanne Nazon. The funeral is later today, at 3:00. Again, I would like to send my condolences to the family and, more importantly, to the community of Tsiigehtchic. Thank you.

---Applause

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Condolences On The Passing Of Joanne Nazon

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 744

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 3, Member's statements. Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Committee Report 7-15(3): Review Of The Information And Privacy Commissioner's Annual Report 2002-2003

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 744

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to offer the report on the review of the Information and Privacy Commissioner's Annual Report 2002-2003.

Background

The NWT's Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act -- ATIPP -- came into force on December 31, 1996. The purpose of the act is to make public bodies more accountable and to protect personal privacy by giving the public a right of access, with limited exceptions, to records held by the GNWT and related public bodies, and by preventing the unauthorized collection, use or disclosure of personal information by the GNWT and related public bodies. The act also gives individuals the right to see and make corrections to information about themselves.

The Information and Privacy Commissioner is an independent officer of the Legislative Assembly, and is required under

section 68 of the act to prepare and submit an annual report. Ms. Elaine Keenan-Bengts was reappointed as the NWT's Information and Privacy Commissioner on July 1, 2000, for a five-year term.

Several amendments to the act came into force April 1, 2004, including new powers for the Commissioner to investigate and make recommendations on privacy complaints. Many of these amendments were made in response to recommendations the Commissioner made in previous annual reports.

General Comments

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight held a public meeting with Ms. Keenan-Bengts on August 23, 2004, to review her 2002-2003 annual report.

The committee was pleased to hear from the Commissioner that in her view most government agencies and ATIPP coordinators do understand the act, and are applying it well. However, the Commissioner identified some specific exceptions, which did concern Members. One was a failure by RWED to release information on its legal costs in a court action. The committee would urge the government to be more open in such cases, in order to avoid, as the Commissioner suggested in her report, fostering "an atmosphere of suspicion and mistrust." Another was an apparent breach of personal privacy when an employee's medical information was disclosed to her

supervisor. The committee would encourage the Department of Health and Social Services and the health boards to work with the Commissioner in order to ensure that staff are aware of their responsibilities in protecting private information.

The Commissioner's Recommendations

Access To Information And Privacy Legislation For Municipal Governments

As in her past four reports, the Commissioner recommends that municipal governments be brought under territorial access to information and privacy legislation, either by including them under the act as public bodies, or by passing new legislation specific to them. The Commissioner points out that municipal authorities gather and maintain significant information about individuals, and that there are possibilities of integrated information systems and data sharing between the GNWT and municipal governments.

The previous government recommended against bringing municipalities under the act based on consultations with municipal representatives who were concerned with the impact the legislation would have on day-to-day operations and ongoing administrative costs.

The committee considers access to information and protection of privacy standards to be an essential part of an open and transparent government. Members acknowledge the challenges of developing and implementing such legislation for municipal governments, but do not consider them to be insurmountable.

In order to implement its own legislation, the GNWT had to make a significant investment in training, and developing policies, procedures and proper records management systems. Much of this work is ongoing. Municipal governments have far fewer human and financial resources to work with. In the absence of GNWT assistance in the form of funding and access to records management specialists, it would be unfair to expect municipal governments to implement and administer new information and privacy legislation.

The GNWT, therefore, needs to work with municipal governments to assess the resources required to implement and administer such legislation, and to develop a reasonable implementation plan. In the meantime, the GNWT should continue to be prepared to assist any municipal governments who ask for help in designing their own guidelines for managing records and information.

The committee recommends that the government work with the NWT Association of Communities to assess the resources required for municipal governments to be able to comply with access to information and protection of privacy legislation, and to develop an implementation plan for such legislation.

Made-In-The-NWT Privacy Legislation For The Private Sector

The Commissioner recommends, as in previous reports, that the NWT enact its own "made-in-the-North" privacy legislation to regulate how the private sector collects, uses or discloses personal information.

NWT businesses are already regulated by the federal Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act -- PIPEDA -- which came into full force on January 1, 2004. However, the Commissioner has raised concerns that this act will not provide an adequate regulatory framework for the NWT. In particular, she is concerned that the federal Privacy Commissioner will likely have the resources to deal with only broad national issues, and not the smaller local issues that are likely to affect NWT residents.

The position of the previous government was that it would be premature to consider NWT legislation at this time, and that the issue should be re-examined following the mandatory review of Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act by the House of Commons, which is scheduled for 2006.

Although the committee believes the Commissioner's concerns are legitimate, it agrees with the government's position that it would be premature to develop our own legislation at this time. The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act is new and its effectiveness in the NWT has not yet been tested. In the meantime, government should concentrate its efforts on ensuring its own house is in order and that staff understand and are applying the privacy provisions of ATIPP appropriately.

Mr. Speaker, the committee recommends that the government monitor the effectiveness of the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act in the NWT, and prepare its own report with recommendations on whether the NWT needs its own legislation following the 2006 review of Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act by the House of Commons.

Devolution And Self-Government Negotiations

The Commissioner recommends that access to information and protection of privacy issues be kept at the top of the agenda in devolution and aboriginal self-government negotiations to ensure accountability and protection of personal information by new governments. The committee supports this recommendation, as it is important that emerging governments are aware of these issues.

Private Contractors

The GNWT contracts out some of its functions to private industry, which could involve a business handling personal information on behalf of government. For example, motor vehicles registrations were, at one time, administered by a private contractor. The Commissioner is concerned that private businesses may not be required to follow the same information and privacy laws that would apply if the GNWT were doing the work itself. She recommends that this should be addressed by including clauses in outsourcing contracts to require compliance with the act.

The committee recommends that the government investigate whether its contracts currently include clauses requiring compliance with ATIPP and, if not, that the government add such clauses to any outsourcing contracts where a business would be creating records that would otherwise be government

records or handling personal information on behalf of the government.

Awareness And Understanding Of The Act

The Commissioner recommends that government prepare an updated directory of the ATIPP coordinators for departments and public bodies, and make it easily accessible to the public. It is the committee's understanding that the government has already addressed this recommendation.

The Commissioner also recommends government continue to support and encourage ongoing training for ATIPP coordinators, and ensure that all employees are aware of their basic responsibilities under the act. The committee supports this recommendation.

Conclusion

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight would like to thank the Commissioner, Ms. Elaine Keenan-Bengts, for presenting her report at the committee's public hearing.

The committee requests the Executive Council to table a comprehensive response to this report within 120 days, in accordance with Rule 93(5) of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight on the review of the report of the Information and Privacy Commissioner for 2002-2003.

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Motion To Receive Committee Report 7-15(3) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 744

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for North Slave , that Committee Report 7-15(3) be received by the Assembly and moved into Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Motion To Receive Committee Report 7-15(3) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 746

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Motion To Receive Committee Report 7-15(3) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 746

An Hon. Member

Question.

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Motion To Receive Committee Report 7-15(3) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 746

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Question is being called. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Report 7-15(3) will be moved into Committee of the Whole. Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Committee Report 8-15(3): Report On The Review Of The Languages Commissioner's Annual Report 2003-2004

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 746

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to take a moment to thank the honourable Member for Nahendeh ; apparently there were two reports to read in and he gave me the longer of the two.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, I would like to read the review of the Languages Commissioner's Annual Report 2003-2004.

Review Of The Languages Commissioner's Annual Report 2003-2004

History

The Official Languages Act was passed by the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories in 1984. The act guarantees equal status for the use of Canada's two official languages for members of the public using government programs and services. The act also officially recognized the aboriginal languages spoken in the Northwest Territories.

In 1990 amendments to the act gave greater status to northern aboriginal languages and recognized the need to protect aboriginal culture through the promotion of the use of aboriginal languages. The 1990 amendments also included the creation of the position of the Languages Commissioner to be appointed by the Legislative Assembly for a term of four years.

Review Of The Official Languages Act

Section 29(1) of the act required a review of the Official Languages Act following December 31, 2000. A special joint committee was established in November of 2000 to examine the effectiveness of the current legislation to protect both Canada's official languages and the aboriginal languages of the Northwest Territories. The Special Committee on the Review of the Official Languages Act -- SCOL -- presented its final report, One Land, Many Voices, to the Legislative Assembly in March 2003.

It contained 64 recommendations, which were adopted by Committee of the Whole, including several recommendations to amend the act. As a result of the committee's recommendations, Bill 31, passed in October 2003, introduced five major changes to the act.

The changes are:

First, Inuinnaqtun, Inuvialuktun, North Slave and South Slavey are now identified as official languages. Prior to this change, these languages were not recognized separately in the act. Only Slavey and Inuktitut were identified.

The establishment of an Official Languages Board, an Aboriginal Languages Revitalization Board, and a Minister responsible for the Official Languages Act will allow the Languages Commissioner to focus on the ombudsman-like role of that office. The role of promoting languages will now be the responsibility of the Minister and the new boards.

And finally, the amendments passed last fall set out the responsibilities of the Minister responsible for the Official Languages. The responsibilities of the Minister are to:

a) consider the recommendations from the both the Official Languages Board and the Aboriginal Languages Revitalization Board;

b) oversee the development of policies and regulations necessary to implement this act and evaluate them;

c) promote official languages communication in schools and post-secondary institutions and in adult education and literacy training programs; and,

d) produce reports on the activities of the two language boards.

Languages Commissioner

According to

section 20(1) of the act, the duties of the Languages Commissioner are:

...to take all actions and measures within the authority of the Languages Commissioner with a view to ensuring recognition of the rights, status and privileges of each of the official languages and compliance with the spirit and intent of the act in the administration of the affairs of government institutions, including any of their activities relating to the advancement of the aboriginal languages in the Territories.

The Commissioner has the authority to investigate any complaints made to the office or may initiate an investigation if it is warranted. The Commissioner may also issue opinions on complaints and make recommendations to institutions as deemed necessary. If, after a reasonable amount of time, the Commissioner's recommendations have not been acted upon by the institution, the Commissioner may make a report to the Legislative Assembly.

The Commissioner is also required to submit an annual report to the Legislative Assembly. Ms. Fibbie Tatti was appointed to the position of Languages Commissioner in July of 2000 and her term expired in July of 2004. Ms. Shannon Gullberg is currently serving as the Acting Languages Commissioner, pending recruitment of a new Commissioner.

Annual Report 2003-2004

Ms. Tatti submitted her annual report for the year 2003-2004, which was tabled in the House on June 2, 2004. The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight met to review the report on June 24, 2004. The committee would like to thank Ms. Tatti and her staff for presenting the report.

Recommendations

The Languages Commissioner made three recommendations in her annual report. The recommendations are listed below, along with the committee's responses.

Recommendation No. 1

It is recommended that the current members of the OLC Advisory Board continue their role on the two new advisory boards as identified by the recommendations of the Special Committee on the Review of Languages.

The committee strongly supports the Languages Commissioner's recommendation and wrote to the Minister of Official Languages asking him to give special consideration to former advisory board members when appointing people to the Official Languages Board and the Aboriginal Languages Revitalization Board. The Minister replied that he has asked for nominations from all the language communities, and that he would consider the committee's suggestion in the event that a language community nominates more than one person for one board.

Recommendation No. 2

Archiving artifacts must be done with their history, explanation and the language in which it was developed. It is strongly recommended by the Official Languages Commissioner that the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre role be increased and that they be given the financial resources to be able to perform the important task of archiving living artifacts.

The standing committee encourages the new Aboriginal Languages Revitalization Board to review this recommendation.

Recommendation No. 3

It is recommended by the Languages Commissioner of the Northwest Territories that the $100,000 be restored to the Legislative Assembly language funding.

The standing committee understands that while $100,000 was taken out of the Language Commissioner's budget in 2003-2004 as part of the government-wide cost reduction exercise, the money was reinstated into the base in 2004-2005.

However, because the Language Commissioner's promotional responsibilities have been transferred to the Minister and the new boards effective July 2004, the Language Commissioner's budget was reduced by $156,000 for 2004-2005. One hundred thousand dollars of this was transferred to the Department of Education,

Culture and Employment for the new boards, and $56,000 was returned to the consolidated revenue fund.

Review Of Languages Complaints

The standing committee was disappointed to see that the Languages Commissioner's 2003-2004 annual report still contained very little information about the nature of languages complaints both from prior and present years.

While the Languages Commissioner explained that information about complaints is confidential, the standing committee still thought that general information regarding the type of language involved in complaints, the location of complainants and the process used to mediate said complaints could be provided to them.

As the previous standing committee of the 14th Assembly reported in their review of the Language's Commissioner Annual Report, 2001-2002, "without information with which to better understand the concerns being raised by the public, the standing committee is at a loss to assess the actions of the Commissioner."

The committee has since received additional information from the Languages Commissioner on the complaints submitted to the office in 2003-2004.

Appendices

In addition to the recommendations outlined above, the Languages Commissioner provided responses to the recommendations contained within the Final Report of the Special Committee on the Review of the Official Languages Act (Appendix 1).

The Languages Commissioner also provided a legal opinion to the office of the Languages Commissioner on how the amendments to the Official Languages Act may change the office of the Languages Commissioner (Appendix 3).

The committee would like to comment on two of the issues that were raised in these sections of the report.

Official Languages Board And The Aboriginal Languages Revitalization Board

The committee engaged in considerable discussion regarding the rationale for the creation of the two new boards, and intends to address its concerns with the Minister responsible for Official Languages in the near future.

Languages Commissioner Replacement

The committee recommends that the replacement for the Languages Commissioner should be able to speak at least one of the official languages.

Additional Information

Following its public hearings on the report, the committee asked for and received the following information from the Languages Commissioner:

• a copy of the Navajo language research project report;

• information on other research projects;

• additional information on travel by the Languages Commissioner and staff.

The committee also asked for and received more detailed information on the expenses of the office of the Languages Commissioner from the office of the Clerk.

Conclusion

The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight would like to thank the Languages Commissioner and her staff for the 2003-2004 annual report.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight on the review of the Languages Commissioners Annual Report 2003-2004.

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Motion To Receive And Adopt Committee Report 8-15(3), Carried

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 746

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh , that Committee Report 8-15(3) be received and adopted. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Motion To Receive And Adopt Committee Report 8-15(3), Carried

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 748

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Motion To Receive And Adopt Committee Report 8-15(3), Carried

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 748

An Hon. Member

Question

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Motion To Receive And Adopt Committee Report 8-15(3), Carried

Item 4: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 748

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried,

---Carried

Committee Report 8-15(3) has been received and adopted. Item 4, reports of standing and special committees. Item 5, returns to oral questions. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 211-15(3): Court Worker Position In Fort Simpson

Item 5: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 5: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 748

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Menicoche on October 13, 2004, regarding the court worker position in Fort Simpson.

Mr. Speaker, the Legal Services Board of the Northwest Territories has indicated that the court worker position in Fort Simpson will be filled before the end of this fiscal year. Since April of this year, a court worker has been sent in to Fort Simpson once a month for two days to provide assistance to clients wishing to apply for legal aid, and to cover every second Justice of the Peace Court.

A notice is posted at the court worker office advising anyone with questions to call one of the other court workers for assistance. Also, a court worker travels to Fort Simpson to attend Territorial Court sittings.

Mr. Speaker, the Legal Services Board has been actively trying to fill positions across the Northwest Territories on a priority basis. Since April of this year, they have run six competitions to fill positions, including court workers positions in Inuvik and Fort Good Hope, and three family law lawyer positions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 211-15(3): Court Worker Position In Fort Simpson

Item 5: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 5: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 5, returns to oral questions. Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 749

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to take this time to recognize two visitors in the gallery: Mr. Mark Wilson and Mr. Brett Scarf. I believe they are both here to support their children who are acting as Pages today. They were able to find time today to come by and watch their children. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 749

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I saw earlier Mr. Dave Legros who is my constituent. I don't know if he is still there, but if he is I would like to welcome him to the House. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 7, oral questions.

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Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 6: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services and it is going to be quite a frank question. When will this family receive the services needed for this child? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to talk to the Member about this particular situation outside the public confines of this House and share with him the latest briefing note I have, which just came across my desk here in the last few minutes. Thank you.

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Return To Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Return To Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

No further questions, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Question 214-15(3): Access To Fas/fae Treatment

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice a number of questions today with regard to staff morale and other issues at the North Slave Correctional Centre. The first question I would like to ask the Minister is what steps since last spring when this situation was first outlined to the Minister, has he or his deputy taken to address the staff morale issue at North Slave Correctional Centre? Thank you.

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Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Minister of Justice , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there was some expectation that with the staffing of the new correctional centre, there would be some extra time required by people and that has come to pass. Staff training and staff workload during the transition to the new centre has disrupted routines and caused some problems. We are still working through that. At the beginning of this month, an additional 12 officers have started the training program and at the end of five weeks from the start of their training, they will be moving into full-time positions within the centre. We think that will do a lot to deal with some of the workload issues that have arisen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Minister, for your response. I will go back to the explanation that the Minister gave, which is fine and good, but the problems in staff morale existed well before the changeover to the new facility. His response didn't really answer the question. What steps have been taken to address the issue of staff morale and also the issue of fair hiring practices at the North Slave Correctional Centre? I don't think his response answered the question. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 749

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Previously, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Ramsay didn't ask a question about fair hiring practices, so I will answer that one first. I am satisfied that the hiring practices undertaken by members of the Department of Justice follow the government standard as set out by corporate human resources and by FMBS. Staffing is a process that is well supervised. The process is set out in the Collective Agreement and it is followed specifically as set out in the Collective Agreement.

One of the reasons we've had to use so much overtime in the past while, is when the competition was held just prior to the opening of the new facility, the intent was to have the staff come on stream before the move to the new facility, but because of appeals on staffing there was a four-month delay before the positions were filled. So we have to follow the process, as set out under the Collective Agreement. I am satisfied that we are doing that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, if the Minister is satisfied that fair hiring practices are underway at the North Slave Correctional Centre, I wonder why a full-scale internal human resource review is being conducted by one of our senior HR people with FMBS. Maybe he could suggest why that's happening and maybe stand up and admit there are some serious concerns out there in terms of human resource management. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when allegations are made that there is a problem, then it's quite normal to look into them. I wouldn't call it a full-scale review. I have never called it a review. We've asked corporate human resources in the Executive to provide assistance to examine the staffing processes and to make sure that the proper procedures are being followed and to make recommendations where change is needed and identify the strengths where we have those strengths. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will get back to the amount of overtime to employees at the North Slave Correctional Centre. For the period of one year, up until May 31, 2004, that amount was $216,395. Between June 1, 2004, and September 30, 2004, that amount was $243,913. Could the Minister explain why it is that his department, who knew for three years that they were moving into a new facility, wasn't staffed up to the level that it had to be and didn't take the measures that were necessary to not have to pay this amount of overtime? It's ridiculous to think that in a four-month period we paid more than we did in an entire year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I indicated previously, corrections did try to staff up for the move. Unfortunately, the process, as it works in government, is sometimes time consuming to fill positions and they were not able to fill those positions prior to the move. That alone led to an increase in the use of overtime, as well as the increased numbers in staffing at the facility. The intention would have been to run another competition sooner had we been able to fill the positions, but because of the length of time the first one took, we've gotten behind. Why wasn't staffing done earlier?

Because FMB didn't agree that the department should have the money in advance of having the facility open.

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Further Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

Some Hon. Members

Oh!

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Further Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

It's not a situation where the money was available. It was a situation where we didn't have the money, so it couldn't be done in advance.

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Further Return To Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 215-15(3): Addressing Concerns At North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are also to the Minister of Justice with regard to my Member's statement earlier today. Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you that the huge rate of vacancies at the Correctional Centre and the high amount of money that's being paid for overtime is just one of the issues I am hearing that are contributing to a morale problem there that is affecting the operation of the centre.

I should also say that I am not speaking on the basis of one or two people who are talking about this; I have heard from many different people from different sectors in the community who have knowledge, interest or concerns about the facility. So my question, Mr. Speaker, is with regard to the review. What exactly is this review and what is the Minister trying to get at with this review? Thank you.

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Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Minister of Justice , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The review is one that was requested by the department. They approached corporate human resources and asked if they could get some assistance to do an internal review. So it's our staff along with one representative from corporate human resources assisting them to make sure they're examining our human resources policies and practices, as said, to identify strengths and weaknesses and to make recommendations to build on our strengths and if they find weaknesses, to recommend where we might make changes within to address those weaknesses. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 750

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am trying to be very sensitive because this involves human resources, individuals and staff and such and I don't want to name any names, but I must say the Minister is very good at skirting the issue either. He is speaking about finding out about strengths and weaknesses and doing a review. Could the Minister indicate what is the question he is trying to get an answer to? What is the problem he is aware of that gave rise to looking into this? Why did the staff of the department come to him and say there needed to be a review? What is the question? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, what drove this in large part were questions by Mr. Ramsay and others about what was happening out there, and there were suggestions in those questions that there was a problem with the staffing. I have not said that I believe there is such a problem, but whenever an allegation is made about there being a problem, then it behooves the government and the department to look into that. The department is following through on those concerns. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the information I have is in the last year there has been at least a 20 percent vacancy at the facility. There are 50 correctional officers who work at the facility and there have been up to 12 positions vacant. What is going on in there is much like I was hearing from the hospital. Correctional officers are refusing to answer calls on weekends because they don't want to have to go in to go to work. That sort of thing causes a lot of problems and there might be a lot of things behind that that the Minister has to address.

Would the Minister table in this House a terms of reference for this review or any instruction that his team is working under? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Ms. Lee talked about 12 vacancies. The only time we had 12 vacancies was almost a year ago, November 2003. At the end of September, there were seven vacancies and, as I said, we had 12 officers start training on the 4th of October. So I think that the issue of vacancies is one that is being dealt with. We've increased the numbers of positions with the staffing of the North Slave Correctional Centre. It takes a bigger staff complement to run that facility than it did the old facility. So I would argue that the movement is in the right direction. We are filling the positions.

In terms of the terms of reference, I have to review the direction that was taken here. I will have to talk to the deputy minister about what sorts of discussions he's had with corporate human resources and how the team has been instructed. In terms of whether or not I can table a terms of reference, I will have to look into that and I will get back to the Member very quickly on that issue. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Maybe a House motion to table that terms of reference could give him extra ammunition. He is correct in saying vacancies were between 10 to 12 and it's going down to eight and seven, but I don't think the Minister is really appreciating the extent of the problem and that's what I was trying to say in my Member's statement. The voice is growing stronger and stronger. One of the concerns I am hearing is the people who should be interviewed for this review are hesitant about speaking out.

What is the Minister doing to ensure the staff involved, who should be interviewed in order for this review to be well done and fairly done, know that it is safe and it is okay to be involved in this process? There is that much caution and alarm among the employees, from my understanding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to also say that I know there are a lot of happy workers at the North Slave Correctional Centre. It's not as if the entire staff are unhappy. The times have changed and the change in approach has added to the issue of contentment with the workplace. Not all of the staff are pleased with the change in direction and the change in the way the facility deals with inmates. That has caused some concerns among some of the staff. However, a large number of the staff welcome the change and are satisfied with the terms of their employment there.

Now I want to make sure that everybody knows that there are no implications for retribution if they speak to the people involved in reviewing human resources practices at the facility. I will say that publicly and on the record. This is an internal review. It's not something where we are looking to hang people out to dry. This is something being done entirely within the department to help the department identify strengths and deal with weaknesses where they are found. Therefore, it isn't a situation where people should be concerned about addressing issues if they have them.

We are just looking to make sure that we are doing things right now and, if not, that we find a way to do things better. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Question 216-15(3): Review Of Human Resources At The North Slave Correctional Centre

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 751

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment on the Income Support program in relation to persons with permanent disabilities. Mr. Speaker, as you are well aware, persons with permanent disabilities receive an enhanced benefit through the Income Support program for their permanent disability. I just wanted to ask the Minister if he and his department have taken into consideration any available option of creating a program that is separate from an alternative to

the Income Support program for people with permanent handicaps in the NWT, so it would not be considered as an enhanced benefit in the Income Support program? I have a really hard time with a person with a permanent disability receiving something that's supposed to be enhanced. Can the Minister give me some clarification on that? Thank you.

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Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 752

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 752

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The intent is to recognize that some people face different challenges. In order to accommodate that, the benefits can't be the same for everybody. That's why the program has been set up as it is. Most jurisdictions in Canada provide some kind of additional benefit for people with challenges or disabilities, so we have taken the same sort of approach. All of our programs are provided under the wings of the Income Support program. All of our programs provide support to people. For instance, the Seniors' Fuel Subsidy is an Income Support program.

Student Financial Assistance is an Income Support program. That's where all of our programs where we provide assistance to individuals are housed. I am not sure how we can separate part of it because we are convinced that the best way to administer programs that provide support to individuals is to house them in one area, so that we have the same people dealing with the same sorts of issues. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 752

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supplementary To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 752

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I know they are all under the Income Support program and under the one department, but many people with these permanent disabilities are in households with other people who are under different Income Assistance programs. In a revision in July 8, 2002, in the eligibility requirements of the Income Support program, it states for the purposes of clarity if either the head of the household or spouse and family is disqualified for any valid reason under the regulations and policies of the Income Assistance program, the disqualifications extend to the family.

So if we have disabled people in that family who are receiving income assistance, their disqualifications are carried through because of a family member who has been disqualified from income assistance under a different program. So I don't think it's really fair that anybody with a disabled family member with a permanent disability be dinged twice for them making some ends meet over the year and making a bit of money to help their disabled family members. All of a sudden, Income Support is cutting off all family members from Income Support throughout the whole program for anybody in the family.

I would like some clarification on why the revision was made to the eligibility requirement in the program regulations. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 752

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 752

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member sounds like he might be talking about a specific situation. Perhaps it would be best if we could get to the bottom of this by meeting and reviewing the circumstances around that situation. I'd be happy to commit to doing that with the Member if he would like to meet with me outside so we can discuss this specific file or family.

In terms of the program, the Member is right; it is set up so it recognizes the income that comes into the household. That's done in order to live with the philosophy that we all must first rely on our families before we start to look to government for support. It supports the government's objective of independent people in the Northwest Territories. There are always reasons to take a look at individual circumstances, so, again, I would be prepared to meet with the Member and see if there are some extenuating circumstances involved in the issue he's looking at right now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 752

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supplementary To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanent Disabilities

Item 7: Oral Questions

Page 752

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm glad to meet with the Minister to discuss some of the clients that have brought this matter to my attention.

Just on another note, Mr. Speaker, with regard to some of the applicant responsibilities in reference to their permanent handicap. In our Income Support program, the disability allowance is classified as an enhanced benefit. Our clients must meet -- and it states very clearly -- all of the following criteria to qualify for this allowance of $300 a month. There are eight bullets in those criteria. In the Alberta program, which is the Assured Income to the Severely Handicapped program, in the applicant's responsibilities to the eligibility requirements there are only four bullets.

Basically, on the disability and enhanced benefit of the Income Support, the first bullet states that the client must have a severe disability that substantially limits their ability to earn a living.

Mr. Speaker, I think that criteria right there speaks for itself. I don't think that people with severe disabilities or handicaps should have to go through the other six or seven bullets that really don't have any real significance to the whole program. This government is supposedly trying to create an atmosphere of independent living and sustainability. Maybe the Minister could just elaborate on why there is such a big list of eligibility criteria for persons with severe handicaps. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 217-15(3): Income Support For Persons With Permanen