Debates of June 2nd, 2015

This is page numbers 6331 – 6390 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was public .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Canada Transportation Act Review

Canadian Tire Partnership

Expansion Of Court Programs And Services

Online Child Care Inspection Reports

Citizens First Survey Results

Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing Risks

Horizontal Fracturing Filing Regulations

Hydraulic Fracturing Regulatory Regime

Balanced Approach To Hydraulic Fracturing

Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Inuvik Hydraulic Fracturing Public Engagement

Renewable Energy Alternatives

Public Engagement On Hydraulic Fracturing Regulations

Government Perspective On Hydraulic Fracturing Activities

Protection Of Water System In Development Activities

Ministerial Performance On The Energy Strategy

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Enforcement Of Rules In Territorial Parks

Moratorium On Hydraulic Fracturing

Public Consultations On Hydraulic Fracturing

Public Engagement On Hydraulic Fracturing Regulations

Scientific Conclusions On Climate Change

Water Safety And Hydraulic Fracturing

Petition 5-17(5): Fracking Moratorium Pending Comprehensive Regional Review

Committee Report 16-17(5): Report On The Review Of The 2013-2014 Public Accounts

Motion That Committee Report 16-17(5) Be Deemed As Read And Printed In Hansard In Its Entirety

Motion To Receive Committee Report 16-17(5) And Move Into Committee Of The Whole

Bill 44:

An Act To Amend The Hospital Insurance And Health And Social Services Administration Act Bill 47:

An Act To Amend The Child And Family Services Act

Committee Report 17-17(5): Report On The Review Of Bill 44:

An Act To Amend The Hospital Insurance And Health And Social Services Administration Act

Motion To Receive Committee Report 17-17(5) And Move Into Committee Of The Whole

Tabled Document 253-17(5): Citizens First 7 – Institute For Citizen-Centered Service, December 2014

Tabled Document 254-17(5): Office Of The Regulator Of Oil And Gas Operations Annual Report 2014-2015 Tabled Document 255-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Public Information

Tabled Document 256-17(5): Liidlii Kue First Nation Band Council Resolution On Hydraulic Fracturing Tabled Document 257-17(5): Dehcho First Nations Resolution On Total Ban On Hydraulic Fracturing

Comprehensive Public Review Of Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Plebiscite On Hydraulic Fracturing In The Northwest Territories

Appointment Of Members To The NWT Honours Advisory Council

Extended Adjournment Of The House To September 29, 2015

Bill 56: Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act 2015

Bill 55: Mental Health Act

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Delete $516,000 From Directorate Activity, Department Of Executive

Concurrence Of Tabled Document 248-17(5), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2015-2016

Motion To Extend Sitting Hours

Report of Committee of the Whole

Orders of the Day

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Good afternoon, colleagues. Before we begin, I’d like to welcome back to the House and to the table the Honourable Anthony W. J. Whitford.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers’ statements. Honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. Beaulieu .

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Minister's Statement 209-17(5): Canada Transportation Act Review

Ministers’ Statements

Tu Nedhe

Tom Beaulieu

Minister of Transportation

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to welcome members of a federally appointed arm’s-length panel undertaking a statutory review of the Canada Transportation Act. They are visiting the Northwest Territories this week to gather feedback from Northerners into new federal transportation policy and program development.

The panel will conduct a comprehensive examination of how the act operates as it relates to the economic regulation of transportation.

Mr. Speaker, this is a valuable and unique opportunity for Northerners to provide our perspective on how the transportation system can be leveraged to support economic growth with nation-building projects, such as the Mackenzie Valley Highway to Norman Wells, or an all-weather road into the Slave Geological Province or the Tlicho region.

The review is also an opportunity to examine the role of transportation in supporting sustainable economic development in the Northwest Territories.

Unfortunately, the lack of infrastructure is creating obstacles to exploration and development in remote areas. The challenges are most acute in regions where residents, businesses and industry depend on air or barge transportation to receive essential goods and services.

Mr. Speaker, officials with the Department of Transportation have been working in partnership with the NWT Chamber of Commerce to coordinate a round table discussion in Yellowknife this afternoon with the review panel.

The round table involves approximately 35 representatives of the NWT transportation sector such as industry representatives, users, experts and others who represent a broad range of perspectives and experience on northern transportation.

The discussion will examine how changes to federal policy and programs can help to resolve current and emerging transportation challenges in the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, review panel members will be visiting Hay River tomorrow where they will meet with representatives such as NTCL, Coast Guard and the Great Slave Harbour Authority. These meetings will provide panel members with first-hand information on areas of concern that involve the federal government, such as dredging the Port of Hay River and critical sections of the Mackenzie River to accommodate fully loaded tugs and barges, fishing boats and the Coast Guard fleet.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Transportation’s involvement in the federal review of the Canada Transportation Act aligns with the 17th Assembly’s

goal of realizing a diversified economy for Northerners by making strategic investments in infrastructure. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 209-17(5): Canada Transportation Act Review

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu . Honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. McLeod.

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Minister's Statement 210-17(5): Canadian Tire Partnership

Ministers’ Statements

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Robert C. McLeod

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

Mr. Speaker, as many Members will have seen earlier today in the Great Hall, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs and Canadian Tire Corporation announced a new partnership to support physical activity and sport opportunities for NWT children and youth.

Canadian Tire Corporation has committed to providing up to $225,000 over three years for equipment, training and capacity building to support MACA’s After School Physical Activity Program.

As Members may recall, this program supports local programs that get school-aged children and youth more physically active in every NWT school.

On behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, I want to thank and recognize Canadian Tire for their generous donation and for their commitment to assist in improving opportunities for our children and youth.

I also want to recognize all schools in the Northwest Territories and the NWT Teachers’ Association, which represents teaching staff, for their support. Most of our programs are run in schools or have volunteer teacher support. We simply could not offer these opportunities without you.

Mr. Speaker, sadly, up to 85 percent of NWT youth are not physically active enough to gain any significant health benefit. This is slightly better than the Canadian average, but very disappointing when it means that nearly nine out of every 10 youth are at risk.

In these times of tight financial resources, it is incredibly important for government to join forces with the corporate sector and others to help make a difference. Canadian Tire has led by example. In future, I hope we can encourage others to join the cause.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I want to thank Landon French, vice-president of community relations, for traveling to Yellowknife to help me make the announcement. Together we can make a difference. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 210-17(5): Canadian Tire Partnership

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Honourable Minister of Justice , Mr. Ramsay .

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Minister's Statement 211-17(5): Expansion Of Court Programs And Services

Ministers’ Statements

Kam Lake

David Ramsay

Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, in cooperation with the judiciary, the Department of Justice has been supporting specialized courts in Yellowknife since 2011. Specialized courts and their programs provide offenders with an opportunity to take responsibility for their actions and get the support that they need to lead healthier lives for themselves and their families.

Today I want to advise Members that in April the Domestic Violence Treatment Option Court was expanded to Hay River. The DVTO Court, as it is known, is now available for offenders from Hay River, Enterprise and the K’atlodeeche First Nation.

I would like to take this opportunity to express my thanks to the judiciary for leading the way in the expansion of DVTO Court to the South Slave. As a result, the department is now able to extend related services to these communities, in collaboration with the RCMP and Health and Social Services.

Like the DVTO Court in Yellowknife, offenders must accept responsibility for their actions and be willing to participate in the eight-module PARTNER program to learn how to change their behaviour. Each person remains under court supervision and will return for sentencing by the DVTO judge at the end of the program.

Mr. Speaker, we must take every opportunity possible to reduce the violence that is so destructive to our families and the personal well-being of individuals. The DVTO Court in Hay River, and the PARTNER program that supports it, work with low-risk offenders to break the cycle of domestic violence. We hope to see very positive results.

I would like to advise Members that we have also very recently expanded our Parenting After Separation workshop delivery to communities outside Yellowknife. This program assists parents before they ever make it as far as the court system. People whose marriage is breaking down can often be confused, frustrated or angry. This is frequently compounded when children are involved. The free workshop we have been offering parents for some time helps them make positive transitions through separation or divorce. Difficult issues are discussed and assistance offered for constructive resolutions. This assistance makes this difficult process easier for parents and their children.

On May 28th the first Parenting After Separation

workshop was offered in Behchoko, and in Hay River on May 29th . More workshops will be

scheduled to meet local interest and demand. The department also has plans to begin offering this workshop in Fort Smith, Inuvik and Norman Wells in the fall of 2015.

Mr. Speaker, the department has taken the time to make sure that these programs are effectively meeting the needs of offenders and families. We are pleased that we now have the experience, in addition to the support of the judiciary and other partners, to serve more communities. We support this Assembly’s vision of strong, independent people who are safe and secure in their communities. We will continue to provide programming as effectively and efficiently as possible, ensuring that everything is in place for successful outcomes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 211-17(5): Expansion Of Court Programs And Services

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Lafferty .

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Minister's Statement 212-17(5): Online Child Care Inspection Reports

Ministers’ Statements

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, ensuring the care and safety of children and providing accessible programs and services to families across the Northwest Territories is a top

priority of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

The Department of Education, Culture and Employment identified the need to do a full review of the current licensing system for daycare centres, family day homes and Aboriginal Head Start programs to ensure compliance with legislation as part of Action 6 of the Right from the Start Early Childhood Framework and Action Plan. ECE is responsible for licensing these programs under the NWT Child Day Care Act and Standards and Regulations. As a result of the review, the department has made licensing reports of child care centres available to the public.

Information from licensing inspections completed after April 1, 2015, will now be posted to ECE’s website in a searchable format. This will encourage child care programs’ continued compliance with the Child Day Care Standards Regulations and give parents and caregivers peace of mind. The department is always looking to improve the systems in place, and these enhancements will increase transparency and provide parents with valuable information to make informed choices about their child care options.

Mr. Speaker, only six other jurisdictions in Canada provide online child care inspection summaries, putting the NWT among the lead. These improvements are part of the ongoing work by the departments of Health and Social Services and Education, Culture and Employment on the Right from the Start Early Childhood Development Framework and Action Plan.

Enhancing the quality of licenced early childhood education and care programs contributes to the GNWT’s ongoing efforts to streamline and improve access for families with young children, providing them with the programs and services they need to see their children grow and thrive. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 212-17(5): Online Child Care Inspection Reports

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 213-17(5): Citizens First Survey Results

Ministers’ Statements

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, every budget session, I have provided this House with an update on the progress being made under the Service Innovation Strategy. Today I want to tell you about a tool we have to measure how satisfied northern residents are with government service delivery.

The national Citizens First survey measures how satisfied Northwest Territories residents are with the Government of the Northwest Territories services they receive over the phone, in person and online. Since the survey began in 1998, it has gained international attention and recognition and

remains the “gold standard” in research on public sector service delivery.

The GNWT participated, for the first time, in 2014 in Citizens First 7, the seventh in this series of studies.

These surveys explore various aspects of a changing service environment, tracking perceptions of service quality and performance for a wide range of services offered by municipal, provincial/territorial and federal governments.

Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, Nova Scotia, the Yukon and Quebec have all participated in the survey. A combined telephone and mail/mail-to-online approach was used. Where appropriate, comparisons are provided to the overall national results and “Best Provincial/Territorial” results, which represent the highest score by participating individual province or territory. Four hundred three people were surveyed in the NWT.

The GNWT participated not only to establish a baseline for measuring progress but also to understand more about what our residents expect from government and what makes for the most satisfying service experience regardless of what channel Northerners access government services. The term “channel” refers to how you access the service. It can be online, in person, or on the telephone.

This first survey provided us with some very interesting information. The office of the chief information officer has been making presentations and sharing the results of the report and recommendations for improvement with all of the government departments.

What did we find out? • The NWT’s service reputation score is the

highest in Canada with a score of 66. The NWT’s score is higher than the national average and has the highest score of the participating provinces and territories. Your reputation score is indicative of the public perception of your services. I hope this is not just beginner’s luck.

• We also found out that NWT residents felt this

government was responsive to the needs of a diverse population, whether it be visible minorities or people with a disability.

• The NWT’s client satisfaction score, where

NWT residents are asked to rate a recent experience with a territorial government service, saw the GNWT receiving scores on par with the highest score among the eight provinces/territories participating in the survey.

We will not let those good scores go to our heads. We recognize there is room for improvement. An

article in the May 8th Yellowknifer, entitled “Calls to

the GNWT go to the Birds,” Mr. Walt Humphries points out how both he and Ms. Cece McCauley

have found it difficult to find the information they needed from the GNWT.

Similar to the issues of the two Northern News Services columnists, the survey revealed the “findability” of information on our websites requires improvement, as does our telephone wait times. We also found out that we have challenges in solving problems, correcting errors and dealing with complaints, especially when a resident has to use more than two channels to solve their problem, or tell their story to multiple people.

In addition to providing some very valuable baseline information, the survey also summarized some priorities for improving services, like customer service.

The office of the chief information officer will offer service training for employees in June for front-line service providers and in October for certified service managers. The training will help employees and their managers become accredited in service delivery. It also aligns with the Service Innovation Strategy objective to improve government service delivery, and as departments look at putting more services online, they can look to these survey results for baseline information on where to focus their efforts.

This was just a brief overview of the Citizen First survey. I encourage everyone to read it in its entirety. It can be found on the Department of Finance website and I will table the survey results later today at the appropriate time.

We are pleased that we received positive results from our first survey and good feedback from residents about where we can improve. I want to thank all the residents who took

part in the survey, because your feedback is very important to us. I also want to encourage everyone to take

part in the next survey, if you are asked, because we are listening. Finally, I want to take the time to commend all of our public servants on the front line, and their managers, for always keeping our “Citizens First” in mind every day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 213-17(5): Citizens First Survey Results

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing Risks

Members’ Statements

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Any mining operation is fraught with risk, financial risk for the company, environmental risk for the residents, social risk for communities and so on. Any company starting a development must weigh the

risks to benefits to determine if they should proceed with their development.

Development of oil and gas operations is not dissimilar. There are many of the same inherent risks; but when extracting unconventional oil and gas, the risks are greatly increased. That may not be a big deal for a multinational company with deep financial pockets, but it is a big deal for the people living around the extraction site.

Extracting unconventional oil requires fracturing, horizontal fracturing for it to be economical. That process impacts land, water, wildlife, fish and, ultimately, people’s health.

The science around fracking can be argued to a certain extent. It’s not totally clear if the process is good or bad, but it is clear that horizontal fracturing has impacts and that those impacts are negative. Yet just what those impacts are and how widespread they are, are unknown.

Fracking in the North is even more risky due to us having ground with permafrost. What studies are there to illustrate the impacts of horizontal fracking on lands with permafrost? None, I believe. If fracking occurs here, the NWT will be the guinea pig. Do we really want that, or would we rather have some data to confirm the effects before we start fracking?

It’s possible that fracking can be done without serious damage to our environment and our residents, but to date, the government has not proven that. Not to Members of the House and not to residents. As a result, we have the call from many directions of the NWT to not start fracking just yet.

As I said last week, a conversation on fracking has not been held and it must be held. The Minister might be surprised to find that after proper research and review, consultation and conversations, that NWT residents support fracking. I fervently hope they do not support horizontal fracking, but potentially vertical fracking.

I again urge the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment to start a territory-wide consultation and review process on the merits of fracking. This is too important an issue to be decided only by Cabinet. All residents deserve to be heard. Will the government let that happen? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing Risks

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Horizontal Fracturing Filing Regulations

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. It is clear that the people of the Northwest Territories have a lot to say when it comes to fracking,

especially horizontal fracturing. That was true at the public engagement session on the proposed regulations in Fort Simpson and it continues to be true today. The people of my riding are eager for education, understanding and consultation. They have questions about safety, health, water security and fracking itself. I also know that the Dehcho First Nations and the Liidlii Kue First Nations have passed resolutions against fracking in their traditional lands. I support both the Dehcho and the Liidlii Kue in their resolutions, which I will table in the House later today.

Many of the monitoring and research programs that the government describes deal with the Sahtu region. I don’t doubt that these programs are important, but potential effects may also be felt outside that region. Fracking is already being done in northern BC and the Liard Basin, and our portion is being studied as well. But what about baseline data and monitoring there?

At the Fort Simpson session, I was concerned about the time given to people to understand and respond to our technical regulations. Today I am pleased that the government has extended the public engagement period by 60 days, to the end of August, but I must be clear, the government must be seen to be doing more to engage the people.

I also have questions about how the regulations deal with baseline studying and monitoring. It seems that industry will be responsible for much of this work. Is self-monitoring in such a competitive industry a wise approach? Will there be some kind of oversight? We must be prepared to enforce our own rules. Because the two sessions in my riding, one in Fort Liard and one in Nahanni Butte, were rescheduled – they’ll happen next week on the 9th and 10th of June – I encourage all of my

constituents to share their views. As the public engagement process continues, I’ll continue to be a full participant as a Member of this Legislative Assembly. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

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Horizontal Fracturing Filing Regulations

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Member for Hay River North , Mr. Bouchard .

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Hydraulic Fracturing Regulatory Regime

Members’ Statements

Robert Bouchard

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too would like to speak about hydraulic fracturing, fracking, as it’s called by most people. I’m a member of the Economic Development and Infrastructure committee and we’ve been working to learn more about this over the last two or three years.

Hydraulic fracturing has been approved in the Northwest Territories in the past by the federal government and the National Energy Board. April 1st last year, we took over control of our lands and

resources. We are now in control. We need to control how the regulations of this industry and this particular process are being done in the Northwest Territories. We need to have a Northwest Territories approach to this. We need to make sure that the regulations in this area are the strongest in the world, Mr. Speaker. I think nobody in the world is more interested in the land and resources than the Northwest Territories people. We’ve heard that in most of the discussions on regulations.

This is not development at any cost. We need to look at how we can make these regulations northern and make sure that they’re being implemented, that they’re being controlled, that we are making sure that we are not affecting the land and the resources in the Northwest Territories.

We are not the only jurisdiction looking at this. We know our neighbours in the Yukon have been looking at it for the past two years and have spent a lot of money. They’re still undecided. Mr. Woods, yesterday, from Australia, indicated that they had done the Hawke Report and indicated that they didn’t have any indication on what they were going to do.

We’re still looking at this process, but we need to set up the regulations. We can’t deny that there’s a potential opportunity here for people, an opportunity for jobs. We need to look at the revenue that can be generated. We have lots of pressures. We have lots of expenses that are going up in our health, education, housing, and all our programs are demanding more and more. We need to look at how we can do this northern, make sure the regulations are enforced, but we need to take it nice and slow. We need to lengthen out the process. This government can’t rush through it. We have some time.

There is a natural moratorium. Industry has indicated that they’re not doing anything, so we need to look at this sooner than later. Thank you very much.

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Hydraulic Fracturing Regulatory Regime

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard . Member for Range Lake , Mr. Dolynny .

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Balanced Approach To Hydraulic Fracturing

Members’ Statements

Daryl Dolynny

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s hard not to get caught up in the emotional drama when the word “fracking” is discussed. Ultimately, the well has been poisoned long ago by both extreme views of ideology and science.

We cannot afford to walk away from our economic duties as newfound stewards of the land, and we cannot ignore the economic potential from responsible resource development our territory has to offer. Yes, we can all agree there are risks, as all large-scale human activities have them, which is why we must subject ourselves to the highest

degree of environmental integrity to the objective of efficient, smart and transparent resource development.

As a Member of this House, I have a fiduciary duty and obligation to all Northerners to protect our land, water and resources from unwarranted and adverse effects, yet I am equally bound to support the extraordinary value creation this economic NWT sphere can provide in basic necessities for its people.

As a member of the Standing Committee on Social Programs, I have witnessed first-hand our social umbrella expand to greater deficits without any economic balance. Consequently, in order to achieve this balance in society, we need to look at opportunities in investment and growth within a diversified, environmentally sound economy. Therefore, we must continue and support this comprehensive public engagement that is occurring within our government’s regulatory authority and support any form of so-called bans or moratoriums goes directly against the premise of gathering this important knowledge.

This is a very complex issue with polarizing views, and in the end there are no winners, only survivors of moral opinion. Thank you.

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Balanced Approach To Hydraulic Fracturing

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny . Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We all want a cleaner, safer, healthier environment. “Why,” you ask. Well, if you were to come out and walk on the Canol Trail with me, you’ll know why, or travel along the Mackenzie River, you’ll know why, or fish on Great Slave Lake or the Great Bear, you’ll know why.

We can strike a balance. We have responsible exploration for energy. We are searching for economic freedom, unshackling the chains of dependency from the federal government. Days are gone of the oil companies that drill them, fill them, spill them and bill them. Responsible exploration for energy has been a never-ending process of revolving, just like the operations for mining for diamonds in Yellowknife. Thousands of trucks pass through your front yard each winter, and yet it is okay to drain five lakes and talk about the amount of water used in the fracking operation.

People are responsible and are looking for responsible exploration for energy in the Sahtu or in the Deh Cho or in the Beaufort-Delta. The Northwest Territories is looking for its own energy source. It is learning about the possibilities of becoming energy independent, self-reliant and efficient. Imagine, we can do this, striking the

balance. NWT’s energy policy for the 21st century is

a possibility.

Responsible exploration for energy is the cutting edge of making us a nation of independence, rather than making us a nation of dependency. Dependency is on handouts. Who wants to be living on handouts?

We look at every way to stretch our energy dollars, at our gas pump stations, to heating our homes, to buying our airline tickets. These things cost money, and money is energy.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Oil companies are always looking for new fuel solutions and so are we – new supplies, maximizing efficiency with advanced technology to make the exploration for energy a science and an art.

While we are still putting our rules in place for responsible exploration for energy with the goal of solving our energy problem, they must continue to work together and allow the agreed upon process to finish without any tainting or interference or trying to derail our energy policies.

The sky is not falling. Thank you.

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Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Moses .

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Inuvik Hydraulic Fracturing Public Engagement

Members’ Statements

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you can tell, we’re having a little bit of a theme day here on hydraulic fracturing. I applaud the department in doing their due diligence and going out and doing the public engagement throughout the Northwest Territories.

On April 9th I had the opportunity to attend this

fracking meeting in Inuvik. We had over 30 participants, so obviously it was a big concern. It was one of the biggest public meetings that I have attended. A lot of passion was spoken by members and leadership, not only from Inuvik but we had leadership from Tsiigehtchic, Fort McPherson, Aklavik and Tuktoyaktuk. So, everybody from the Beaufort-Delta region was there expressing their views, expressing their concerns.

We are told that these public hearings are to help us guide these regulations as we are moving forward. We heard a lot of good discussions about the shale potential in the Inuvialuit, the Gwich’in and the Sahtu regions. As you can tell, all of the regions are also going through some economic hard times. So, obviously, there was some great opportunity to look at the economic prosperities in

those three communities as well as the Liard Basin, among other areas throughout the Northwest Territories where hydraulic fracturing can also help increase the economy and increase jobs for the people. As I mentioned, in those areas the economy is very slow.

We also heard about strengthening the regulations that we, as a government, have inherited through these public forums, and I think that is some of the process as we are moving forward.

We also talked a little bit about if we do proceed, we can strengthen the regulations, but more importantly, through the public engagement process we are educating the residents of the Northwest Territories on hydraulic fracturing. I know there are a lot of misconceptions out there. There are a lot of facts out there and we want to make sure that we can make our decisions based on facts.

At the meeting there were a lot of concerns that were brought up from our leadership, from concerned citizens who attended, things such as seismic testing, the disclosure of chemicals, which has been brought up in this House before from some Members, especially some of those chemicals that are patented by some of these companies. Obviously, with the Beaufort-Delta there was a big concern with the water flow and possible chemicals, should there be a possible spill, and the wastewater. With that, we don’t even have wastewater disposal sites.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Inuvik Hydraulic Fracturing Public Engagement

Members’ Statements

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

There was also concern of monitoring, and as I also mentioned, the wastewater disposal sites that we have in the Northwest Territories, do we even have any, which got me thinking about our transboundary water agreements that we have with Alberta and BC. If Alberta and BC are doing hydraulic fracturing and they’re lowering their water levels, can that have an impact here in the Northwest Territories? Last summer we just witnessed the lowest water levels on record here in the Northwest Territories. If we do go ahead and proceed with hydraulic fracturing, how much of that water is going to be used up, and how is it going to affect the communities down the Mackenzie River?

I just wanted to mention that the department did propose new regulations and four new requirements to meet northern priorities. I won’t get into the detail of them, but one big concern was with the hydraulic fracturing: Why is the government moving forward with regulations when we don’t have all groups and Aboriginal groups on board? That really caught my attention.

I will be asking questions to the Minister of ITI later on at these public engagements.

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Inuvik Hydraulic Fracturing Public Engagement

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses . The Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Renewable Energy Alternatives

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When asked what his secret to success was, Wayne Gretzky replied that most players go for where the puck is while he goes for where the puck is going to be. I know our Premier and ITI Minister are hockey players, and they’re good ones. If we want to be stars like the Great One, we need to recognize that oil and gas may be where the puck is at currently, but renewable energy is where the puck will be by the time we get there. Let’s apply this insight to the NWT economic development energy strategy and listen to the goal buzzer shriek with joy.

It’s obvious that the days of the world’s reliance on fossil fuels for energy and our economic foundation are numbered. We can continue chasing this elusive puck at great cost, and ultimately in vain, or we can jump to environmentally clean, locally derived and job-rich energy systems and sustainable economic models based on our knowledge of where the economic opportunities are shifting to.

Instead of asking what costly subsidies and complex but ultimately ineffective regulations are required to get one last gasp boom and bust cycle out of fossil fuel exploitation, let’s capitalize on the real opportunities that renewable energy development enables. Let’s shift from fossil fuel addiction – I know it’s hard – and climate destroying, water poisoning, forest flattening, rock fracturing and community stressing petrochemical exploitation to the earth replenishing, job creating, wealth distributing and community supporting development of wind, solar, biomass and small hydro energy sources.

Let’s connect the dots. Alberta is burning up and closing tar sands operations. The West Coast is parched with record drought. Texas went from a record drought to floodwaters rising eight metres in 24 hours. One thousand people died last week in India of heat stress. Six hundred twenty square kilometres of our forest burned in May under record draught conditions. Science shows that human civilization is now at risk from dangerous climate change as it comes with two degrees warming. Clearly, it is happening right now with a one degree change.

Eighty percent of known reserves must stay in the ground, according to science, to avoid dangerous climate change and impacts on human civilization. The question of fracking is moot.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Renewable Energy Alternatives

Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Abandoning already stranded fossil fuels and quickly positioning ourselves to take advantage of renewable opportunities is the obvious and compulsory answer. We have the chance to be there to meet the renewable energy puck and slap it into the net. Will we hear the crowd roar? We can if we so choose on behalf of our people and our land. I certainly hope we do. Mahsi.

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Renewable Energy Alternatives

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Blake .

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Public Engagement On Hydraulic Fracturing Regulations

Members’ Statements

Frederick Blake Jr.

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many of my constituents are very concerned with our government moving forward with regulations to allow horizontal hydraulic fracturing. My constituents are thinking of the future. They are concerned that we may pollute our lakes and rivers. Many of my constituents live a traditional way of life and harvest wildlife and fish from the land.

Many of my constituents are also thinking of our future generations. They also want their children and grandchildren to have the same opportunities we have today to live off the land. Mr. Speaker, we need to do a better job to consult our constituents and have workshops on horizontal hydraulic fracturing. I’d also like to quote one of my constituents: “Our land, water and wildlife are priceless.”

As we move forward with our regulations, I believe we need to extend the time frame. I know we’re looking at the fall, but I think we need to take more time. We need to ensure that our residents are comfortable with this government moving forward with hydraulic fracturing. Thank you.

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Public Engagement On Hydraulic Fracturing Regulations

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake . The Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Government Perspective On Hydraulic Fracturing Activities

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Before we begin I’m going to say it has become crystal clear in the work that we do here that hydraulic fracturing certainly has become the most important ideological question of our time. True leadership is the willingness to put the question sometimes to the people, rather than trying to say, “Here I’m a leader and I make all the decisions in isolation.”

Knowing that, the government is still trying to understand and balance its role as land and resources regulator. We’re starting to see the ITI Minister take on some of these responsibilities for regulating oil and gas and mineral projects, but at

times you see him almost like with a two-headed job. Of course, the Minister only has one head, at least that I can see, and you can see the Minister certainly has a tough job promoting the industry one day, but then, of course, trying to give the final word of the application in a most fair and appreciated manner.

So, what is it really? I know the rules, of course. They’re spelled out so the Minister can only do so much so far and he has sworn he has delegated the authority, which we’ve seen on paper, but sometimes it causes you to wonder. Of course, now we have the review of the regulations of the hydraulic fracturing in process. The question really, in my opinion here is starting to weigh, is where is the public’s good being weighed in on this question? Of course, we’re reviewing the regulations before we have the good will or certainly the permission and support of the public to this particular fracking.

As well, at the same time, I have to paint a face on it that Minister Ramsay I’m not sure is as open-minded as he likes to try to tell the public he is with his public comments that he has made in the media that fracking is needed for economic growth and we believe, he says, “it can be done in a safe and secure manner.” So I’m not really sure, with that type of perspective and those types of words from the Minister, why he even bothers wasting his time with the public at that point. I mean, we all know we’re being driven to a further resolve.

If I go a little further, in an e-mail the Friday before, it says, “Resources in this area will require hydraulic fracturing to extract them.” So again, what we’ve got here is a situation with the Minister saying one thing and we’re putting the board sort of in between the old proverbial rock and a hard place. We’ve got the applicant that one day may or may not come forward with an application to frack. The board is supposed to be independent in how to do these things, and we’ve got the Minister’s opinion saying, “Its safe and we have to do these things.” We all know boards don’t want to upset their Minister, even though they are independent.

I should at this time request unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Thank you.

----Unanimous consent denied

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Government Perspective On Hydraulic Fracturing Activities

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you. The Member for Deh Cho , Mr. Nadli .

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Protection Of Water System In Development Activities

Members’ Statements

Michael Nadli

Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We have commonly heard that the GNWT is in a balancing act, weighing both conservation and industrial development with a zeal to create an economy for

jobs and business opportunities in the overall growth of the NWT.

Industrial economic development, when we say that we’re presuming that we’re underdeveloped, that the system that we have, particularly the environmental regime that we have in place, could be said to be archaic, and our recent efforts have been made to try to update the whole system that we have through the devolution exercise. Similarly, we have a very socially challenged labour pool of people who are afflicted with minimum grade levels and alcohol and drug abuse. Our people are highly dependent on the government for assistance and subsidies.

When we say conservation, we want to keep certain areas of the environment as pristine as we can for future generations. That means having no development in certain areas.

In October 2011, the point was raised on whether the GNWT was considering following other jurisdictions in Canada by establishing a moratorium on fracking. Right now the current effort is to develop regulations to allow fracking. The Northwest Territories could be said to have a strong traditional economy, hunting, fishing and trapping. Our people gain pride in terms of being independent, to supplement their income, to put food on their table.

I wanted to reference a film that I saw as a youngster, and that movie was called “A Paddle to the Sea.” It’s about a small carving of a person in a canoe paddling the great lakes and rivers that we have in Canada. What it illustrated to me is that those rivers that we see float by our communities are sourced from mountains and ice that floats down to the river systems and that eventually comes to our communities and our homes.

The rivers and creeks and lakes that we have are part of the watershed systems that we have in place in the NWT, and efforts are being made to ensure that we have a very vigilant system in place to ensure that there is a level of monitoring and assessment in place to ensure that disasters don’t happen.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my Member’s statement. Mahsi.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Protection Of Water System In Development Activities

Members’ Statements

Michael Nadli

Deh Cho

Our colleagues in the Yukon have noted the need for further research on the permafrost degradation relative to the climate change we’re seeing, including the warming trends that we’re seeing all over the world, including in the NWT.

Climate change is causing a trend of drought in certain areas of the world and North America, especially in the southern part of North America, and we’re experiencing a shortage of quality water. Water is becoming a precious and valued commodity. We need to ensure that we have a

rigorous environmental assessment in place to ensure that we protect the water system that we have and enjoy here in the NWT.

I support the need for consultation with the public to determine whether hydraulic fracturing should be allowed or not. There is a need for further development in the regulations that we see that have been out in the public for some time. This matter requires a full consensus of all people in the NWT, and this is a very important matter that we need to ensure that everybody has input into this matter. Mahsi.

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Protection Of Water System In Development Activities

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli . Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Ministerial Performance On The Energy Strategy

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today not to speak on the theme day today of hydraulic fracturing that has been very eloquently and adequately covered by my colleagues. I stand today on a matter that I consider very, very serious. I have said in the past, when we have considered leadership debates, that I am not a proponent of midterm reviews. If I have something to say, I will stand up and say it at the appropriate time. Today I’m going to do that. I am going to make commentary of one of my colleagues who sits in the Cabinet, a colleague who, like myself, is serving in his fifth term in this Legislature.

The level and degree of disrespect and contempt for this side of the House recently has risen to an all new level. It wasn’t until today, after we were departing the Caucus meeting, that it finally occurred to me what was going on. This is in relationship to a specific concern that we have had about developing an energy policy, a global energy policy for this government so that everybody would know where they fit into that plan.

This government, vis a vis this Minister, has refused to sit down and communicate with a private sector company that’s been in the Northwest Territories for 60 years, to see what they might bring to that discussion in developing an energy plan. Not only has he refused to sit down with them, he has refused to sit down with us.

Point in case is this: We were going to have a discussion. We were going to have a briefing. One week before we had a briefing, the government made a major decision which is now water under the bridge. It’s a moot point. The night before we were going to have a briefing, this Cabinet released a press release and then comes the next day to this all-wonderful anticipated briefing with absolutely nothing to share. Now, add to that the fact that they are actually going to table their response to the

energy charrette in this House on Thursday. What a coincidence. The last day of session.

Now, if Members cannot see a pattern and trend here, I’m sorry. If I am the only one who is going to stand up and say this, I will still call a spade a spade. This is an affront and an insult to consensus government and the Members on this side of the House. I spoke to it briefly last week. I said it’s a fail.

What also baffles me even more than that is how did Mr. Miltenberger convince all his Cabinet colleagues that this was an okay way to do business, because it certainly is not.

I’m sorry if I seem a little emotional about this, but I take great pride in consensus government and this institution, and I do get offended and I do get passionate and I get upset when it is confronted in the way that it has been most recently in this matter.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

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Ministerial Performance On The Energy Strategy

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

We all know what the definition of a dictatorship is, so I invite you to stay tuned. I say that personal vendettas and agendas are going to come out. You are going to see them in the next six months. I cannot stop it. The only power that can stop it is this side of the House. I personally can’t alone do anything about it, but I ask you to stay tuned.

When we were meeting in Caucus this morning, when we decided on our schedules and what we’re going to do, I personally, with my own ears – and I do not make this up – heard Mr. Miltenberger talk about the fact that we are leaving here Thursday and not coming back until September 29th . These

were the words: “Four months of no oversight.” Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Ministerial Performance On The Energy Strategy

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. McLeod.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize and welcome to the gallery and to the House some representatives we have from Canadian Tire Corporation who took

part in the announcement today. We are appreciative of the support that they have shown. We have Mr. Landon French, who is the vice-president of community relations for Canadian Tire Corporation and the executive director of Jump Start. We have Pierina De Carolis and Kim Desrochers, both from Canadian Tire Corporation. Welcome to the House.

We also have with them three hardworking members of MACA who put a lot of these programs into place and we appreciate the work that you do. Mr. Tom Williams, deputy minister; Ian Legaree, who is also up there and we have Damon Crossman, who is also up there. Thank you very much for all the work that you do.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Ramsay .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a great pleasure to welcome some more students to the House today to see our proceedings. We have a Grade 6 class from St. Joseph school. I would just like to recognize all of them today, if I could. They are accompanied by Jennifer Genge, their teacher; and Mr. Stephen Richardson, classroom assistant.

Matthew Baggs, Gabe Beard, Aaradhana Bhattarai, Claire Cooper, Quinn Critch, Red Dela Prez, Jaida Dowe, Vincent Embodo, Ashlin Gauchier, Caelem Grandjambe, Brandon Koe, Vy Luu, Carleigh Luxon – she is not there – Gairon Mason, Jace Menton, Laurelle Pittman, Kassandra Rawless, Kevin Santos, Jeremy Snow, Aron Taylor, Lydia Taylor, Gabby Uy and Mya Wrigley. She is not there.

One other person who is up there that I want to recognize is my CA, Ms. Wendy Morgan. Welcome to the House.

While I’ve got the floor, I want to thank Canadian Tire and Canadian Tire Corporation for all the good work that you’re doing up here in the Northwest Territories. Thanks for visiting us.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Ms. Bisaro .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure today to recognize one of our hardworking Pages who resides in my riding of Frame Lake. Caleb Cleary has been working for us for the two weeks, I think, and will be continuing on, I think, for the rest of the week. Thank you to all the Pages, and particularly to Caleb, for the work that they do.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . Mr. Yakeleya .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to recognize two constituents. One, Marie Speakman. She was originally from Deline and now she’s living here. I would also like to recognize Sheila Karkagie from Tulita.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Mr. Bromley .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Always a great pleasure to welcome constituent Tony Whitford, honourary table officer extraordinaire and brings a special energy to the House, as I think we all agree. Great to see you, Tony.

I would also like to recognize a few people in the gallery who were participating in a demonstration

outside the House today passing messages on to the House. My colleague has already mentioned Sheila Karkagie. Also, Keira Kolson and Marie Speakman, I believe, was in there, as well, and there may well be others in the House that were part of that. I appreciated hearing from the people.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . Mr. Nadli .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Michael Nadli

Deh Cho

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli . I’d like to welcome everybody here in the public gallery. Thank you for taking an interest in our proceedings.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I just want to follow up with some questions on when I spoke on horizontal fracturing. I’d like to ask the Minister of ITI , just with regard to studies related to hydraulic fracturing taking place in the Liard Basin, are there any baseline studies being done there, or have been done?

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment and through my role as regulator of the industry, we are not involved in the baseline studies that would have been done in the Liard Basin. I know there has been some work there. I will get the Member that level of detail, and I suppose I’d have to go to another department to get that information.

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Certainly, I spoke in my Member’s statement about how the Fort Liard public engagement session was deferred and it’s planned for next week. I’d just like to ask the Minister how his department is letting the

communities know about the upcoming engagement sessions.

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

I believe it has been well advertised, public announcements and posters around the community. I can get, again, detail for the Member on what has happened to let the public know. It was unfortunate two communities in the Member’s riding, we were unable to get in there initially because of weather, but those meetings are scheduled, as the Member mentioned, for next week.

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Certainly, these are very small communities but it’s important to advertise about subjects of this importance. I’d just like to ask the Minister, as well, what additional engagement measures will the department take over for the extended engagement period as they’re looking at extending it until August? Thank you.

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

We still have a portion of the process to get through, more communities to have meetings in. What we will do, and I have committed in the House last week, was to extend the period and the process until the end of August. We will take a look. I know Members are asking for more educational opportunities for communities. We will take everything we’ve heard into consideration and make a concerted effort to address the concerns we’ve heard and, again, carry the process out until the end of August and further if need be. Thank you.

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In the information sessions there was talk about a

Section 35 consultation, which means consulting with Aboriginal organizations. This summer finds us with our annual assemblies. What are the plans for the

Section 35 consultations with Aboriginal organizations? Mahsi.

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

The public engagement sessions are, of course, public engagement. The consultation with Aboriginal governments has started. I’ve written letters to the Aboriginal governments around the Northwest Territories. That is in the works, that consultation period. The added time to the end of August will give us an opportunity to get to gatherings and other commitments around the territory where gatherings are taking place. We will have folks attend assemblies and provide information and talk to people about the process and how we’re moving this effort forward.

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Question 854-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Baseline Studies

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement, I talked about responsible exploration for energy. The Sahtu needs to understand the impacts and the consequences on our land, water and wildlife from the responsible exploration for energy.

I want to ask the Minister of ITI , what is this government doing to know the potential impacts and consequences? What studies have been done in our region?

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Every application that is received is scrutinized by arm’s-length regulatory boards here in the Northwest Territories that hear directly from the public and make decisions and set regulations for every single project based on the specifics of each proposal.

Through ENR there has been work done on water and there are other efforts in place. Of course, the proponents in the Sahtu have done a lot of work on baseline information gathering themselves. So when an application comes forward, that information is in it so the public can understand what the application is and the impacts it may have. Thank you.

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

The Minister talked about studies and information. I want to ask the Minister, what credible information on the impacts on this exploring for energy using hydraulic fracking to the health, environment and water that we are doing in the Sahtu. Do we have effective enforcement?

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

We are moving forward with draft regulations. We have had only a year, or just over a year. Our government wanted to devolve and evolve. This is part of the evolution. As we move forward, we can take a look at other jurisdictions, how they’ve regulated the industry, how they’ve been successful and not ruling out one technique. You look at BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, they’ve done this in a safe and responsible manner.

It is about striking a balance, and we believe that we can manage our own affairs here in the Northwest Territories so that we can protect the environment and we can provide jobs and opportunities for people. I know some Members, in their Members’ statements, talked about the future. The future includes jobs and opportunities for businesses and people here in the Northwest Territories as well as protecting the environment. Thank you.

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Can the Minister speak about the public infrastructure plan that will and is addressing the issue, such as transportation of

wastewater disposals once the operations have begun in areas where we are doing horizontal hydraulic fracking?

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

You just have to look around the Northwest Territories and a lot of the infrastructure that we have in place here today is a direct result of resource development, whether it’s mining or hydro, in the case of the Taltson, or mining.

We are looking at an opportunity in the central Mackenzie Valley. One of the knocks against the Territories is lack of infrastructure. Members are talking about environmental concerns, and the Member is asking about wastewater. It would make much, much more sense if we had an all-weather road down the Mackenzie Valley. That’s something that’s been a priority of the government for some time. In the case of developing a resource and developing an industry in the central Mackenzie Valley, an all-weather road is a big part of that puzzle. Thank you.

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last year at the Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated AGM, the motion that was tabled and talked about called for a joint committee with the GNWT to consider the risks and benefits of hydraulic fracking in the settlement area.

I want to ask the Minister, has the Minister’s department ever responded to that motion, where they would sit down with the Sahtu Secretariat and look at the issue of hydraulic fracking in their region and come together to understand as to how they’re going to proceed with this?

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

I’m not aware at the official’s level if that has happened. I can make a commitment to the Member, if I can sit down with the leadership myself, I’d be happy to do that, to discuss just that. Thank you.

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Question 855-17(5): Responsible Energy Exploration And Development

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also would like to follow up my Member’s statement with questions for the Minister of ITI .

If it was not apparent to the Minister before today that there is a significant public concern surrounding fracking in the NWT, it should be clear now, and the public wants input on the question of whether to fracture or not, and that the drafting of fracking regulations is premature. It puts the cart before the horse.

Will the Minister now declare a moratorium on horizontal hydraulic fracturing in the Northwest Territories until a comprehensive public review of the practice is conducted, letting the people of the NWT become knowledgeable about this controversial practice and indicate their acceptance of the risks involved, or not ? Mahsi.

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.As I mentioned last week, we are going to take more time with the process that we have underway.

Again, every application is scrutinized by arm’s-length regulatory boards that hear directly from the public and make decisions and set requirements for every single project based on the specifics of each proposal, recognized best practices, current science and public views. Ruling out one particular technique is like telling a doctor they can only ever use general anesthetic for a procedure, when local anesthetic or even an aspirin might be more appropriate. It is more responsible to use the best approach for each job and make sure we, as a government, have created the best rules to manage that, and that is what we are trying to do here. Thank you.

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

I take it that’s a no to the moratorium. We all know that the people called for a halt to economic analysis of the last application, yet the government approved it, despite having the power to call for that environmental review.

Of more than 400 peer reviewed publications on the impacts of shale gas development, 75 percent of which we published in 2013, 96 percent indicate adverse health outcomes, 92 percent indicate elevated air pollution and 73 percent warn of water pollution because of fracking. Tight oil fracking starts after that, so the research is behind, but it’s coming out completely in parallel with this. Yet the Minister continues to assert that despite evidence worldwide to the contrary, we in the NWT will be able to beat the odds and do it safely.

On what basis does the Minister feel that he alone is right and the scientists of the world are wrong?

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Again, Northerners have the ability to provide input into the assessment of every application at many stages of the process that we have in place here in the NWT, through intervening in the process, through submitting comments on the public record, to making comments at public hearings.

I have every confidence in our NWT regulatory system. Thank you.

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

I would just remind the Minister that the NWT has been blanketed with motions and resolutions from every Aboriginal government across the Nahendeh part of the NWT, requesting

just that, a moratorium, a ban, or a comprehensive review.

As I was saying, the science is clear. The oil under the ground in the NWT must stay there, according to science, if human civilization is to continue as we know it. Renewable energy options are environmentally and economically attractive, virtually limitless and promise provision of more clean and affordable energy than we need.

Will the Minister commit to removing perverse subsidies and misguided support to fossil fuel extraction and shift them to building renewable energy systems that serve people, communities and our living earth? Mahsi.

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

I respect the Member and I respect his point of view, but when we got together after the 17th Legislative Assembly was

elected in 2011, we came together, we formed a vision, we came up with our goals, and I’ll list them off here: a strong independent North built on partnerships; an environment that will sustain present and future generations; healthy, educated people free from poverty; a diversified economy that provides all communities and regions with opportunities and choices; sustainable, vibrant communities; and effective and efficient government.

Mr. Speaker, we have a region of the Northwest Territories that has high unemployment levels, people looking for work, looking for opportunities. We need to balance protecting the environment and creating the right economic conditions where people can have jobs, we can graduate children from high school who will have a future and will have a job. Thank you.

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley .

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also support our goals and vision totally. We are now talking about the

interpretation of those. I would note that clearly, for a million dollars of investment, the jobs are there for renewable energy far and beyond, half an order of magnitude beyond oil and gas.

We are fortunate in having alternatives to fossil fuel extraction and its form of tremendous renewable energy options in every community. The technology is here now and getting better by the day. The United States is planning a complete switch to renewable energy in the next 30 years.

My question: What aggressive policies is the Minister pursuing for recommendation to the 18th Assembly for this required shift from destructive energy policies to ones that give us hopefulness for the future? This is not an optional thing, unless the Minister knows something I don’t. I am listening to the scientists. Mahsi.

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

We are doing both. That work is underway for the transition to the 18th Legislative Assembly. But our priorities, when we talk about our goals, the priorities that stem from those goals are increasing employment opportunities where they are needed most. In a region like the Sahtu, that is where we need the economic opportunities the most. Thank you.

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Question 856-17(5): Moratorium On Horizontal Hydraulic Fracturing

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Colleagues, before we go on today, I would like to draw your attention to the gallery, to His Worship Mayor of Niagara Falls, Mr. Jim Diodati and his daughter, Olivia, who is visiting us here today from Niagara Falls. Welcome to the House.

Also, Norman’s CA, who is assisting him, Ms. Natasha Pryznyk.

Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Moses .

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will continue on with my Member’s statement here, but I will ask questions to the Minister of ENR , mainly around some of the monitoring and some of the public disclosure of how we are regulating our wastewater.

I know that our government just signed a transboundary water agreement with Alberta just recently. I know we have one with BC and the Yukon as well. As I mentioned earlier in my Member’s statement, last year we had on record one of our lowest water levels throughout the Northwest Territories, and this year you heard some of that in Great Slave Lake as well as you are probably going to see it again on the Mackenzie River.

I want to ask the Minister or ENR, during our transboundary water agreements, were the water levels and monitoring of water levels an issue? As I mentioned, Alberta and BC both do hydraulic fracturing, and whether the amount of water they are using for hydraulic fracturing was discussed in these transboundary water agreements? It eventually might affect our water levels here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses . Minister of Environment and Natural Resources , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The transboundary water agreement with Alberta definitely looked at quantity issues. We are blessed with significant flows into the Northwest Territories and on through into the Mackenzie and into the Arctic Ocean.

The amount of water coming in the Slave River has been negotiated at about 1.9 percent of the water is

available for extraction between Alberta and the Northwest Territories. The other basically 98 percent stays in the river to feed the river and aquatic ecosystems and the Mackenzie Basin to make sure it stays healthy. It gives you a sense of the volume of the water that is going north. That 1.9 percent represents five times what Alberta’s most aggressive development needs were calculated to be. They looked at everything they had on their

schedule and they multiplied that amount by five times. So there is an enormous cushion there in terms of the overall flows.

However, the issue of concern is quality, as well, and monitoring. It looks at not only flows but quality issues. We have built in requirements for quality, sharing information with Alberta, with the Northwest Territories, with the federal government what we are measuring for. We have spent millions of dollars within the Northwest Territories for community-based water monitoring, as well, up and down the Mackenzie River, to make sure that we work with communities so that they can have a certain degree of comfort that the water they are drinking is coming down to them is in prime, pristine condition as possible. Thank you.

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

I thank the Minister for the update on some of the information around the transboundary water agreement. What the Minister did say was the flow from Alberta down to the Northwest Territories, and that becomes a concern, as well, in terms of monitoring. It becomes a concern with wastewater and also becomes a concern with some of the fracking chemicals that might, if possible, if there’s a chance that it does get leaked into the water system and then comes down here.

I want to ask the Minister, in one of our areas where we talked about the four new regulations that we got with fracking, one of them is public disclosure. I want to ask the Minister in terms of the public disclosure of fracking chemicals, what percentage of chemicals do companies have to publically disclose to Alberta but also to the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

They are encouraged to disclose them all. What the discussion is, as we have heard around the table, is that they need to have the best practices possible. The issue of moving away from voluntary disclosure to mandatory full disclosure so that it is clear that we have the best practices, that is one of the things that we’re discussing and we’ve been talking about that industry knows is coming. In more and more jurisdictions in the United States, it is becoming a given, as well, that it’s not optional anymore. That issue is a very important one and it has been flagged by the government as we looked at these changes. Thank you.

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

The Minister mentioned the voluntary disclosure practice that is currently being

used, and I am sure it is being used worldwide in terms of what companies have to disclose in their fracking ingredients when they’re doing the practice. He also mentioned it’s on the radar for the government to make it mandatory. It has been a concern heard in Inuvik at the public engagement session.

Can I ask the Minister, is there a timeline or does the government intend to make the voluntary disclosure practice mandatory so that we know all chemicals that are going into the fracking ingredients?

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

The goal with devolution was devolve and evolve, knowing that we’re going to have to look at amendments to various pieces of legislation and change things to better suit the requirements of the Northwest Territories. That issue is on the table for discussion, as the Minister of ITI has laid out, and we’re very well aware of the strong trends to mandatory reporting, and that is going to be a clear, I believe, expectation from Northerners as we talk about proceeding.

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final, short supplementary, Mr. Moses .

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

Alfred Moses

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I mentioned in my Member’s statement the shale potential in the Inuvialuit, Gwich’in, the Sahtu region, and the Liard Basin. Should hydraulic fracturing get the green light and go ahead? Does the government foresee or has created or are they currently in existence of wastewater disposal sites, and if so, how many?

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

There is work being done on waste disposal, wastewater. The long-term goal is to manage it very effectively, treat it, if possible, and reclaim it, if possible, in the Northwest Territories. Those regulations and practices are also being reviewed. Right now every project in the past would have their own separate wastewater disposal requirements. There is an economic economy that I know has already been discussed and talked about in the Sahtu about if we’re going to do this in a coordinated way, having a state-of-the-art facility like that in Norman Wells as development occurs, again, to make sure that we can do the best job possible.

Right now there is no active fracking or drilling going on in the Sahtu to the ones that are there, and I don’t have the number at my fingertips, are relatively small and there are no new ones on the horizon because there is no activity currently in the Sahtu.

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Question 857-17(5): Hydraulic Fracturing Water Monitoring

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to move away from fracking for a little bit today, and I have some questions for the Minister of Finance . I would like to ask the Minister some questions about a statement he made last week about our borrowing limit. The Minister, in his statement, made two comments about what this new borrowing limit, this increase of $500 million will do for us. He said it would give us “increased flexibility to invest,” and “in consultation with Members of the Legislative Assembly.”

To date, we haven’t heard from the Minister, as Regular Members. We haven’t heard any questions to us about how we think we might maybe invest this brand new $500 million.

I’d like to ask the Minister, what plans does he have for consultation with Regular Members about how we will use the increase in our borrowing limit?

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The Minister of Finance , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The discussion about the borrowing limit, the opportunities presented by that borrowing limit, the responsibilities that go with that opportunity are there to be discussed. The most imminent part of our financial cycle that is now coming due, of course, is the capital planning process. That has been underway for some months. The main estimates, the capital estimates will be released and we’ll be sharing them with committee based on all the work that we’ve done over the winter and spring.

There is going to be the initiation of the business planning process that comes forward through its normal cycle, knowing that we’re going to have a cycle that is out of sync because of the extended date for the election. There will be discussions there. There is going to be a fiscal update as part of the transition plan. We’ve indicated that there is going to be a requirement to keep expenditures and revenues in sync, and our expenditures are increasing faster than our revenues and that we’re going to have to do the things necessary to make sure that we bring those two key variables in line.

That is going to take place.

All of this to say that that process is going to capture what financial decisions have to be made and will be made. This government, our job is to get the levers and the tools for the subsequent Assemblies to have as much flexibility as possible. We would be happy to meet with committee about this issue, but there are no active plans of any kind other than those processes when it comes to looking at how we are going to manage our fiscal planning on a go-forward basis. How we’re going to do it to get us through the rest of this Assembly is

laid out, as is the transition plan, and the 18th Assembly will pick up the reins at that juncture. Thank you.

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

To the Minister: I think the statement that there are no active plans simply reinforces Mrs. Groenewegen ’s statement from earlier today.

Regular Members have had no exchanges, no meetings with the Minister, and he admitted to that, but we are now two days away from the end of this session, and we will then have four months when Members do not meet. Cabinet will meet quite regularly, as I am sure they do during the summer, so there is some concern on the part of Members on this side of the House that we won’t have an opportunity for input, looking at a budget. A capital budget, once it is done, is far different from having input on the front end.

In the Minister’s statement last week he also stated, “We have begun planning on potential projects.” My second question to the Minister would be to explain to me what he means by “they have begun planning on potential projects.”

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

I would submit to this House and to the Member that there has been a full and normal capital planning process that the Members have been involved in and the fruits of those labours will come forward as a proposed capital plan for the last session at the end of September.

When we made the case to the federal government about the need for an increased borrowing limit, we clearly targeted it for those infrastructure investments that have the ability to promote and help create the conditions for economic development. In order to substantiate that case, we made some very specific recommendations. We suggested and we indicated that we believe there is an opportunity, and we know there is an opportunity to convert, for example, the winter road north to MacKay Lake to the mines to an all-weather road.

We indicated and we have submitted a proposal that committee is fully aware of, to extend the Mackenzie Highway from Wrigley to Norman Wells. We’ve put in a project proposal for projects of national significance. That one has been in the works for some time. We have indicated at our last energy charrette that we know that there are generation issues, especially in Yellowknife and in the thermal communities.

We have indicated that we think, as a government, we should be prepared to invest significant money in the appropriate projects to advance and get people off diesel and to make cost of living more affordable in especially the thermal communities and to address some of the pressing generation needs in Yellowknife.

Those are some specific examples. There are not only examples, there has been work done. It’s going to be to get the groundwork done to start the

planning, and that is the way, and committee is fully aware of all those proposed projects. We needed to get the groundwork done and we needed to be able to convince the federal government that our thinking was clear on why we needed that borrowing limit increase.

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that fulsome response. I am somewhat dismayed. The Minister says that we are fully aware. Yes, I would say we may be fully aware of some of them through the media. I’m not sure that we’ve had full disclosure from Cabinet on some of those suggestions. Certainly we’re aware that there are projects that are in the works and we’ve been advised of those.

One of the other statements that the Minister made last week was “…infrastructure that will support the responsible development of the NWT and its economy.” When I read that, it said to me that we’re certainly narrowing the scope of the projects that we could deal with. The Minister mentioned quite a number of projects that go towards development and go towards the economy, but I was very dismayed and I have not heard much talk about this, certainly from any of Cabinet in the last number of months. I was dismayed not to hear anything about hydro.

Can the Minister tell me whether or not there are any plans, since I haven’t seen them, any plans to use some of this extra borrowing limit for development of our hydro to help address our cost of living of power? Thank you.

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

I’ll just restate that we have, over the last 18 months probably, two years, we’ve been before committee on a number of occasions as our thinking has evolved on the projects, the borrowing limit, what projects we’re identifying to justify and to get the borrowing limit. If there’s a need for further meetings, we’d of course be happy to have that. When we talk about a significant investment in generation capacity in Yellowknife specifically, one of the things that are there is they hydro expansion, both potentially to the Bluefish as well as there is additional capacity in the Lac La Martre River, in the Snare system. We know that there’s additional capacity in the Taltson system.

The issue right now with that is that the only place we can dispose of that surplus would be to sell it south and use the money in the North, but we do have those types of projects on the list as well. It’s going to be a question of priorities and affordability.

The borrowing limit is not free money. This is money we have to pay back. So we have to be very, very careful and measure how we exercise the decision-making here. Thank you.

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Speaker. Thanks again to the Minister. I guess I agree with the Minister this is not free money and we have to be careful how we borrow it and what we do with it.

So, I guess I would like to know from the Minister if there is a list of things that they are contemplating that may or may not be in the capital budget, will the Minister commit to providing that list to Regular Members so we can have some comment on that list back to Cabinet before a capital budget is determined? Thank you.

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Question 858-17(5): Opportunities Arising From Borrowing Limit Increase

Oral Questions

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

I can put in writing the projects that I’ve mentioned, but I can tell you in this House, unequivocally, with no hesitation, that the capital plan that is coming forward is the last capital plan of this 17th Legislative Assembly that we have negotiated. The increase for borrowing limits to allow us to do things, we’re currently sorting out the potential amendments to the definition of borrowing. It may give us other flex