Debates of Nov. 9th, 2000

This is page numbers 815 - 849 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was power .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Diamond Certification Program

The Future Of The Northwest Territories Power Corporation

Need For A Comprehensive Energy Strategy

Political Interference In Power Generation Initiative

Fuel Stabilization Fund

Passing Of Respected Elders

Uncertain Future Of Power Distribution In Hay River

Review Of Power Generation, Distribution And Regulation

Dogrib Power Corporation

Concerns Of South Slave Residents Regarding Power Generation

Impacts Of Proposed Power Corporation Privatization

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

GNWT Energy Policy

Scope Of Power Generation Review

NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Fuel Stabilization Fund

Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Power Generation And Distribution Review

Link Between Power Subsidy And Dividends

Elimination Of Community Generators

Taltson Dam Licensing

Impacts Of Power Corporation Sale

Mandate Of Power Generation Review Team

NTPC Reorganization Plan

Protection From Increased Fuel Costs In Inuvik

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Fort Mcpherson Water Quality And Cost

Health Concerns In Fort Mcpherson

Process For Approval Of Emergency Funding

Request For Emergency Funding

Written Question 15-14(3): Fort Mcpherson Water Quality

Tabled Document 73-14(3): World Wildlife Fund Arctic Bulletin No. 3.00

Bill 16:

An Act To Amend The Motor Vehicles Act

Bill 17:

An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Roger Allen , Honourable Jim Antoine , Mr. Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Mr. Dent , Honourable Jane Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Lafferty , Ms. Lee , Mr. McLeod , Mr. Miltenberger , Mr. Nitah , Honourable Jake Ootes , Mr. Roland , Honourable Vince Steen , Honourable Tony Whitford .

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-- Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 815

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . Bonjour, mes amis. Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Minister Handley .

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Minister's Statement 28-14(3): Diamond Certification Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 815

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that the first Canadian Arctic diamond certificates will be reaching consumers in late November.

This is part of the Government of the Northwest Territories' program to certify selected diamonds as mined, cut and polished in the Northwest Territories. Two Northwest Territories manufacturers, Arslanian Diamond Cutting Works NWT Ltd. and Deton'Cho Diamonds Inc., are participating in this voluntary program.

Each official certificate will provide consumers with proof that the purchased diamond is mined and cut in Canada's Northwest Territories, is authentic and meets a high standard of cut. It will also provide proof of ownership through the inclusion of a Gemprint. This international computerized identification system provides a unique image of each certified diamond. Manufacturers will pay a fee for each certified diamond. Those fees will help offset the costs required for the program.

Mr. Speaker, there is considerable interest in buying Canadian diamonds which are now selling at a premium. Diamonds from Canada have an appeal because Canada has strong laws to protect the environment, its people and the rights of its workforce. Diamonds from the Northwest Territories have appeal because of the NWT's uniqueness, remoteness and pristine wilderness. The GNWT Certification Program will help us capitalize on the appeal of Canadian Arctic diamonds and will position them as quality items in the competitive diamond marketplace.

Mr. Speaker, we are confident that Canadian Arctic diamonds will be a much sought after luxury item, thereby contributing to the growing diamond value added industry in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 28-14(3): Diamond Certification Program

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 815

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Merci, Monsieur Handley. Item 2, Minister's statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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The Future Of The Northwest Territories Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 815

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased today to rise and speak to the issue of an energy policy in the Northwest Territories. It is something in which I have a particular interest in and some familiarity based on some experience I have had with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. The issue of power generation and rates are of particular interest to our citizens, Mr. Speaker, as we are certainly in a high cost service area. Almost all aspects of our life, food, shelter, transportation and the traditional economy are impacted by this issue.

Mr. Speaker, an overall energy strategy is the foundation of the long-term prosperity that we all hope to build. There is a huge need for a broader approach to managing all our energy and utility needs, subsidies and costs and their impact on the environment. The review announced by the Minister and being conducted by Mr. Jim Robertson goes in the right direction, but it needs to go much further in addressing an overall energy strategy. In this respect, I was disappointed to hear recently that the Minister responsible for Finance is declining to take this kind of approach at this time.

We now have the opportunity in new energy initiatives like exporting power from the Taltson hydro station, Dogrib hydro initiatives and building new energy hydro capacity to feed the emerging diamond mines. These, along with chances to pipe natural gas into communities, are new opportunities for us.

I want to make it clear in regard to the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, Mr. Speaker, that any moves to dismantle it or sell it are wrong. The customers of the corporation are the ones who have paid for it. Mr. Speaker, this government as the steward and the keeper of this asset is obliged to take care in what it does with it. The corporation has built a formidable and effective management structure and performance record, Mr. Speaker. It has performed well in the 12 years that this government has owned it.

It has paid off a $54 million long-term debt, it has provided dividends of over $30 million and supported a subsidy program that has benefited residents who need help the most, those in small communities.

It has achieved a team of workers who have two-years-and-plus counting zero lost time accident record, an enviable record in any utility. It has successfully implemented three energy utility related projects with aboriginal groups in the Northwest Territories. It has increased reliability and developed a workforce of over 50 percent Northerners. It has negotiated the painful, difficult, but I think practical separation with our neighbours in Nunavut.

It is the kind of investment and success that governments dream of with Crown corporations, Mr. Speaker, and I would ask for unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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The Future Of The Northwest Territories Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Braden .

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The Future Of The Northwest Territories Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, colleagues, Mr. Speaker. As I was saying, the corporation has proven to be an investment that is enviable. Today, because of government interference and lack of purpose, we have a corporation that I believe is paralyzed. Its people are demoralized. Its healthy financial performance is under threat because the government is not permitting it to look after its core business. This freeze has restricted its ability to move ahead and this is costing us money, efficiency and morale.

I hope, Mr. Speaker, that when my colleagues and I ask further questions about these issues, the Ministers involved will give us answers and will not hide behind the review now in progress. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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The Future Of The Northwest Territories Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Need For A Comprehensive Energy Strategy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I as well would like to briefly speak to the issue of energy, the provision of energy in the Northwest Territories and the need for a broad energy strategy. Broader, Mr. Speaker, than what is being undertaken now by the government.

This is an issue that I have raised in this House for the last five years. The government has responded and they have indicated reasons that I am not convinced are on the table. I look forward to the opportunity to meet with consultants, hopefully next week. Mr. Speaker, if we are going to be serious about this, we have to broaden the scope eventually. We are spending well over $400 million as a Territory on the provision of fuel alone in the Northwest Territories. It is a huge cost and the prices are rising. It affects everybody, every community, every aspect and facet of our life. We need a way to regulate it.

We need a way to plan for the future. We need a way to integrate the various components on the regulatory side, with the provision side, with the supply side, with the usage side, with the environmental concerns.

Mr. Speaker, I would hope that the government would use their initial consultation as a springboard to do that. It is going to be critical that there be proper public consultation and that it be an open process. There is a lot of interest out there. There are a lot of good ideas, a lot of creative ideas in this area. People have spent a lot of time working on this particular area and it is going to be critical that the government tap into that aspect of the energy and ideas.

We also have to look at the communities on a community-by-community basis with community energy strategies. Each community will have their own needs, their own requirements and their own aspirations in how they want to deal with the issue of energy, the provision of energy and energy efficiency.

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately this whole process is off to a shaky start with the decision by Cabinet to interfere in the franchising process in Hay River followed up by their direct intervention and decisions in terms of layoffs and decisions made by the boards as it related to the upcoming division. Mr. Speaker, I am not sure what the Cabinet has in mind or if they are sure, but if they want a process, it should be arm's length. They should not be interfering with a corporation and the day-to-day running of corporations and definitely not in public community processes that are covered under legislation.

I would hope that the government would use this as a springboard to do a comprehensive energy strategy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Need For A Comprehensive Energy Strategy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Merci, Monsieur Miltenberger. Déclaration des députés. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Political Interference In Power Generation Initiative

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 816

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since 1988, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation has been run at arm's length from this government. It has been run as a business. A significant number of directors have been experienced business people. In that 12 years, their goal has been reliable power delivered at as low a price as possible. I think, by and large, Mr. Speaker, they have done a pretty good job. Often times, people that I have talked to in the North have suggested that the Power Corporation could be run better as a private corporation.

I have always pointed out that by eliminating political interference and letting a business-based board run the corporation, it can, in fact, be an efficiently run operation.

This fall, Mr. Speaker, I have growing concern. The level of political interference in the operations of the Power Corporation are unprecedented in the last 12 years. First, with the Hay River franchise, this government gave the power to the municipality to make a decision on the franchise and then took it away. I would also have to point out that same level of interference did not happen in the franchise in Fort Simpson, so there seems to be a real micro-management here as to how they are going to deal with this corporation.

The second instance of interference was, as Mr. Miltenberger pointed out, the directive not to give the staff in Hay River a heads-up about whether or not their position might be impacted by the division of the corporation.

Mr. Speaker, I do not understand how or why this ties into the review underway. If this review is being done to help justify the sale of the corporation and the sale is recommended by this government, it would still take a couple of years. It would have to be debated in this Legislature. There would have to be legislation passed and it would take some time. I cannot see anything in the future that would not cause the need for some reorganization because of the division that is going to take place at the end of this fiscal year.

Mr. Speaker, my fear now is that political interference could create that inefficiency that people have been warning me about over the years. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Political Interference In Power Generation Initiative

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 817

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Dent , you may conclude.

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Political Interference In Power Generation Initiative

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 817

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My fear now is that if this level of political interference is going to continue, it could create that inefficiency that people have been concerned about.

Is this government really committed to reliable power at the lowest possible price? If so, let the Power Corporation run like a business. It is not an instrument of social policy. Mr. Speaker, I hope the review now underway will come back with that sort of recommendation and that this government will take that direction to heart and make sure that the Power Corporation does continue to provide reliable power at the lowest possible price. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Political Interference In Power Generation Initiative

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 817

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 817

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the area of concern I have also has to do with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, mainly in light of the fuel stabilization fund and the subsidies that are provided throughout the Northwest Territories and impact all ratepayers.

Mr. Speaker, it has come to my attention that it seems like a double standard when I speak to residents of Inuvik. We are doing a review to look at the whole area of power generation and distribution. That review also speaks of subsidies. I refer to the scope of

summary, item 6 - Should current subsidy programs be maintained, expanded, eliminated or retained? If expanded, how should they be financed?

Mr. Speaker, this impacts everybody in the Northwest Territories. With all of the changes that have been made recently, constituents are getting concerned, especially in respect to the fuel stabilization fund. Residents of Inuvik who are now on natural gas have recently been hit with this Fuel Stabilization Fund. On the bottom of your bill, it looks rather simple. It says .034 cents per kilowatts/hour and that can be interpreted a couple of ways. In fact, Mr. Speaker, almost 11 percent of our power bill is going to this fuel stabilization fund out of Inuvik.

Mr. Speaker, that is extremely high. I have had constituents come to me and ask me, "Why is that happening when we are on natural gas? We are no longer on diesel fuel and Inuvik has always paid its fair share for the longest time." So, Mr. Speaker, with that I will be questioning the appropriate Minister in this area to see what they are doing in trying to make sure that all residents of the Northwest Territories are treated fairly and equitably. Thank you.

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Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 817

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Déclaration de députés. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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Passing Of Respected Elders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 817

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation starts) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will speak in my own language. The elderly people in the communities in the Northwest Territories are cared for and looked after and they have lived among us for a long time. The people in the community take good care of the elderly people, so I want to mention something about the elderly people who have passed away in the past year. They have children and grandchildren as well and I would like to say something about that.

We regret to say that some have passed on. The ones I would like to mention are Annie Mouse and Celine William from Wrigley; Margaret Douglas from Fort Simpson; Lucy McPherson from Fort Simpson; Andrew Root from Wrigley; Julie Deneyoua and Marguriete Edwards from Simpson; Harry Yendi from Wrigley; and William Cli who is the father of the current chief, Rita Cli, in Fort Simpson. I would like to mention these people that have passed on. They were hard-working people and they were very respected people from my home communities, so thank you for the opportunity to mention their names. Thank you. (Translation ends)

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Passing Of Respected Elders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 817

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Uncertain Future Of Power Distribution In Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 817

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to talk about an issue that has been tearing at the very fabric that makes up the community of Hay River. Mr. Speaker, I am referring to the roles of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and Northland Utilities in the provision and distribution of electrical power to Hay River, and more importantly, Mr. Speaker, the role of this government in that process.

Mr. Speaker, the residents of Hay River were extremely happy back in 1988 when it was decided that the Northwest Territories Power Corporation head office would be located in Hay River and rightfully so, Mr. Speaker. The corporation has lifted the community enormously with jobs and financial resources. Hay River was also very fortunate, Mr. Speaker, in having another great company, Northland Utilities, that has been supplying power to the town for the last 50 years and it has been very beneficial both with jobs and financial resources.

The present franchise agreement with Hay River and Northland Utilities will expire in June 2001. In view of that fact, Mr. Speaker, the town council put out a request for proposals for a new franchise agreement which they felt was well within their mandate. This, Mr. Speaker, set off a chain of events too numerous to mention here. The town did receive two proposals that they felt would bring some benefits to the residents of Hay River.

A decision was to be announced on September 18th; however, due to the amount of public opinion that was generated on this issue, the town decided to hold a public meeting on September 5th. Mr. Speaker, within hours of the public meeting, this government stepped in and requested both parties to withdraw their proposals, infuriating the town administration and leaving many unanswered questions and a bewildered public.

Mr. Speaker, when Nunavut shot off their political cannon and decided to form their own corporation, Hay River, Mr. Speaker, was directly in their line of fire. Jobs were going to be lost. How many, Mr. Speaker, is unknown. Notices of layoffs were going to take place on October 18th. However Mr. Speaker, again at the eleventh hour, this government stepped in and directed the board to put layoff notices on hold. That action on the part of this government, Mr. Speaker, is playing with many people's lives, and taking a terrific toll on the community. It is extremely important that this government clarify...

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Uncertain Future Of Power Distribution In Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 818

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Mr. Delorey , the time for your statement has expired.

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Uncertain Future Of Power Distribution In Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 818

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to complete my statement.

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Uncertain Future Of Power Distribution In Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 818

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Delorey is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude, Mr. Delorey .

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Uncertain Future Of Power Distribution In Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 818

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

It is extremely important, Mr. Speaker, that this government clarify these issues and Mr. Speaker, it is important that they do it soon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Uncertain Future Of Power Distribution In Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 818

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Merci, Monsieur Delorey. Déclaration de députés. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Review Of Power Generation, Distribution And Regulation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 818

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to talk today about the review of power generation and distribution in the Northwest Territories. There is a bit of history. Before World War II, heat and light for a typical NWT winter night was supplied by coal oil lamps and a wood stove. Then came the mines, and with them, hydroelectric power. Now, Mr. Speaker, we enter a new era with possible fundamental changes and serious ramifications.

I think that it is important that we make sure we take the necessary time to ensure that we are going in the right direction. We know we have embarked on a review of power generation distribution. Our government has been careful to ensure that the focus is seen to be broader than just the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. We all know however, that the Northwest Territories Power Corporation is the key piece of this review.

I am hoping today when I ask the Minister, he will be able to tell me exactly what range of options are on the table. What has the consultant been tasked with? We want to know about his mandate. Everything, from possibly doing nothing, to privatize the Power Corporation, and everything in between, Mr. Speaker. There have been a lot of words spoken about the various different options. I have heard people say that a private power corporation cannot possibly operate as efficiently as government, given that a Crown corporation pays no income tax. Is this the case, Mr. Speaker? If it is, I doubt we would ever privatize anything.

What about subsidizing the high cost of service areas? Currently, the dividend paid out by the Power Corporation does not cover the entire subsidization. How much additional subsidy is paid out of our general revenues? We have a lot of questions, Mr. Speaker. Clearly, we need this review, but I would argue that it does not diminish the need for an overall energy strategy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Review Of Power Generation, Distribution And Regulation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 818

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Review Of Power Generation, Distribution And Regulation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 818

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to add my contribution to the issue of energy policy in general. I would like to say for the record, I believe it is a good thing that we are undertaking this review. Given the developments in Hay River and Fort Simpson during the summer, it is time that we focused our attention to this issue. Mr. Speaker, I must say that I was not happy to see what was happening in Hay River and I think this sort of review should have happened before then.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to state clearly for the record that I do not support a wholesale privatization of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation if it is on the board as an option, especially if this has anything to do with lessening the pressure on the debt wall the government is facing, or as a means of raising fast cash.

Mr. Speaker, after all, we are talking about generation, distribution and regulation of the energy and power sector. It is even confusing to talk about energy and power and natural gas. I think the definition of energy and power is changing as we speak.

Mr. Speaker, I think we are also aware of the tremendous changes that the Power Corporation had to undergo within the last year as a result of having lost their service and their business in Nunavut. That is another issue that should be put on the "to do" list for this review team.

Mr. Speaker, I have not had a chance to talk to Mr. Robertson and I look forward to the opportunity to do so. I look forward to getting his report, in order to have a more focused discussion. I have researched a little bit on this issue and met with some of the people. I think there are so many issues that we need to deal with, that I cannot even talk about at the moment.

All I know is that the distribution of energy is an essential service in the North. It is not the most economical place in the world to produce that and distribute that, but it is like a railroad of long ago, where we have to be connected to the system. Not all parts are going to be able to afford everything and some parts have to be subsidized. It is an essential state service that we must have a plan to distribute, and we must find innovative ways to use the Power Corporation at its best, seeing as we have invested so much money into that. I applaud the government for reviewing it and I look forward to seeing the result. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Review Of Power Generation, Distribution And Regulation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 818

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Merci, Ms. Lee . Déclaration des députés. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Dogrib Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 819

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to share the history of an organization within my region which is benefiting the North in two ways: by providing sustainable hydroelectric power and by contributing to the reduction of greenhouse gases in the Northwest Territories. In the early 1990's, the Dogrib people became involved with the generation of electrical power on their traditional lands. They invested heavily in infrastructure, and through a joint partnership with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, they developed the Snare Lake hydroelectric generating plant, which is just north of Rae-Edzo.

One of the main goals of the partnership was to build a power plant that could meet the electricity demand of customers in the Dogrib region. It was also recognized that this partnership would contribute to the reduction of greenhouse gases in the Northwest Territories. In 1996, the Dogrib Power Corporation signed a 65-year lease with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. This provided the Dogrib Corporation with a guaranteed financial return on its investment. Next year the plant will celebrate five years of operation.

It continues to generate a large volume of sustainable hydroelectricity and by next year, the equivalent of more than 100,000 tons of greenhouse gas emissions will have been avoided as a result of this hydroelectricity being generated.

The Dogrib Power Corporation is an excellent example of how government and industry can work together with aboriginal people so that everybody wins. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Dogrib Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 819

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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Concerns Of South Slave Residents Regarding Power Generation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 819

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my people on the south side of the lake have been involved in the power generating industry for many years now. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, it has been on the negative side of the business. The impact has been negative. It has been devastating to other areas. For that reason, the people on the south side of the lake never agreed with the hydroelectric generating power.

However, as our honourable Premier eloquently expresses himself right around the country, when the pipeline was first introduced he was not for it. In 20 years, there has been enough experience gained that he feels the people of the Northwest Territories are ready for it. Similar to that, in my part of the country, my people are ready to have ownership of the Power Corporation. If not the Power Corporation, the Taltson Dam at the very least.

There is significant interest in the industry. There are people from the north and south interested. I know there is a review on. The decision to sell or not to sell has not been made, but there are concerns that people on the south side have. They are concerned that southern interests or other northern interests will take precedence over their own interest. People are worried that the people working for the Power Corporation would ultimately end up with the short end of the stick.

The people are worried that the compensation issue is not resolved and they hope, as I hope, that the Minister would keep these concerns and interests in mind when making any decision. With that, I thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Concerns Of South Slave Residents Regarding Power Generation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 819

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Nitah . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Impacts Of Proposed Power Corporation Privatization

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 819

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a major concern I have with the potential sale of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and its effect on the present joint ventures this government has with aboriginal governments is in regard to the Power Corporation and their involvement with finding unique ways to deal with the problems we have in our communities, with the high cost of energy and also a waste of energy with regard to heat recovery.

Mr. Speaker, in Fort McPherson, Aadrii Ltd. distributes waste heat generated by the Power Corporation from the generators they have and the heat is being used to conserve energy. Also in Inuvik, the Inuvialuit Development Corporation are now selling natural gas to the Power Corporation to supply a cheap form of energy, but also assisting communities to bring down the cost of energy in that community.

Mr. Speaker, with this sale, I feel the corporation was on the right track when it decided to find new ways, new initiatives and new ideas to work with communities, aboriginal government and aboriginal corporations to find new ways to deal with the high cost of energy in our communities and also to look at ways of sharing resources and revenues that come from these joint ventures. I, for one, feel that this will be sending the wrong message to communities and aboriginal governments. Regardless of what size the community or project is, will you have the ability or opportunity to take on economic opportunities in your communities by selling to one large company or even several small companies?

I think opportunities are limited in our communities and limited in our regions. We have to find unique ways of trying to take advantage of those opportunities. I was hoping the corporation would continue striving to work with communities and aboriginal governments to find these unique ventures and form joint ventures to deal with the high cost of energy in our communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Impacts Of Proposed Power Corporation Privatization

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 819

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Steen .

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Return To Question 228-14(3): Water Treatment System Maintenance

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 819

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a Return to Oral Question asked by Mr. Krutko on November 7, 2000, regarding the service contract in place between the Hamlet of Fort McPherson and Public Works and Services.

In the incident mentioned by the Member, dropping water levels in the lake caused the floating pump house to tilt, thereby straining and damaging the electrical service and one of two pumps. Two replacement pumps also failed before the electrical fault was successfully traced and repaired. During this period, water circulation was maintained by one pump, which is adequate during summer conditions but not during winter when the water in the lines is colder. Eventually the intake line froze. By using stored water, however, service to residents was interrupted for only a few hours.

Public Works and Services staff and contractors took their responsibilities seriously, responding to the problem immediately, and treating it as their highest priority. They worked outdoors under difficult winter conditions for four days to make the necessary repairs. The repairs required that they deal with high voltage electrical lines, a building that was leaning on its side and the frustration of an old system requiring obsolete parts. Their success in restoring service under difficult conditions demonstrates the level of commitment of the department's staff and contractors. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 228-14(3): Water Treatment System Maintenance

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Steen . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Handley .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 820

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I wish to recognize two visitors, Mr. Bill Burn and Wayne Sartor, vice-president of Northern Pipeline Development for Embridge Pipeline. They operate our pipeline from Norman Wells south and they do more business with us. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 820

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 820

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Brian Willows, who is with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, in the gallery today. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 820

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 820

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize a former employee of the Legislature, Ms. Candy Hardy, and Ms. Francis from Fort McPherson, who is also in the gallery. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 820

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would like to say welcome to visitors and thank you for coming to see your Legislative Assembly. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question this afternoon is in relation to the issue of energy policy and it is directed to the Minister of Finance . Given that the government of the Northwest Territories and communities, boards and agencies and public institutions are charged with financing and managing a broad range of energy related issues such as water and sewer, heating fuel and electrical utilities, and that we have an enormous potential in the Northwest Territories to harness major hydro and gas opportunities, what is the government's approach to using energy potential as an instrument of public and economic benefit? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you. The honourable Minister responsible for Finance , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The government's approach is one of being very open minded to what the potential is for alternative uses of energy alternatives to diesel fired generators. We have been a strong supporter of the Arctic Energy Alliance and that is an alliance made up of government and non-government bodies. They have been doing a lot of work for us in this area. We are open, we are doing a number of initiatives within the government itself as well. Of course, we are also looking at the whole review of power generation that has been referred to many times today by the Members. Thank you.

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Return To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would still like to pursue that sort of very fundamental, I think philosophical, approach that a government always has the option to apply. That is, if we have the ability through aggressive development and marketing of our energy potential that we could indeed turn the corner on some things. My colleague from Tu Nedhe illustrated potential, for instance, in the Taltson region to export them from the North Slave region as well into the diamond fields.

Does the government feel there is strong potential there that it should be aggressively pursuing?

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Supplementary To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Finance, Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, definitely. The government agrees that there is strong potential in the Northwest Territories in several locations for more hydro energy and the two areas the Member mentions, the Taltson and the Snare River system are, of course, two main ones. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 820

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to this line then, what initiatives is the government taking to explore and adopt an overall energy management policy for the Government of the Northwest Territories and the people in the industry here? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Finance, Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned earlier, through the Arctic Energy Alliance we have identified, going back a year, two years ago, a number of goals that have to be pursued. The Arctic Energy Alliance which is made up of a broad sector of people representing government and non-government, has begun a lot of work on these. Included are ways to increase energy efficiency, to develop energy supply options, ways to reduce energy costs and expenditures, ways to control greenhouse gas emissions, and ways to improve economic self-sufficiency.

We have been working through the Arctic Energy Alliance because it is a body that represents government as well as non-government agencies, including the Power Corporation. As they work through this we have to keep in mind that we have limited capacity in our government. We can only do so much at any one time. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased that the Minister has brought the Arctic Energy Alliance forward. I am a big believer in this group, its purpose and its mandate. I would again like to ask about the government's willingness to create a mandate for itself to have a territory-wide energy policy. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Finance, Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, certainly we need to have an energy policy or an energy strategy, whatever we want to call it, for the whole of the Northwest Territories that is comprehensive and that does include government and non-government agencies. I do not think the government wants to have a policy all by itself and not have included the other groups and I would include the aboriginal self-governments in that.

I think that through the work that is being done by the Arctic Energy Alliance, through the work we have done internally, and through the Power Generation Study, we are moving quite rapidly in that direction, but this has to be a cooperative effort with government and non-government agencies. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Question 242-14(3): GNWT Energy Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions as well are directed to the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat . The Energy Alliance did provide a briefing to the Ordinary Members as well and there are four separate initiatives going on in terms of the development of the energy strategy. The concern is, Mr. Speaker, they are separate initiatives that are not linked.

If the plan is to somehow link them together at the end as opposed to having the broad framework done, out of which these other smaller, discrete initiatives would flow, could the Minister indicate briefly the mandate of this current review that is underway and how it will tie into the development of that broad energy strategy? Thank you.

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Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The terms of reference for the Electrical Power Generation Study were circulated or delivered to all of the Members of the Legislative Assembly. The purpose of that study is to have a look at our current regime and see how it serves to optimize public interest. We are looking much broader than just the Power Corporation. We are looking at the broad public interest issues around power generation, distribution and regulation.

Some of the main areas that they are looking at is security of supply, quality and reliability of service, cost of service, affordability of rates, responsiveness to client needs, adaptability to changing service conditions and, of course, the return on public investment. That is in a nutshell the main terms of reference or purpose for the study.

How does it link into the broader energy strategy or energy initiative? Well, when I went through the goals the Arctic Energy Alliance set, they talked about increased energy efficiency. Certainly what is going on in the Power Generation Study is aimed at that. We need efficient power energy supply for people so that it is cost-effective. Another one of their goals was to develop energy supply options. Again, the Power Generation Study is looking at that one.

Mr. Speaker, those would be the two main ones, although looking at other goals like reducing energy costs and expenditures is certainly part of the study that is being done on power generation.

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Return To Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 821

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the concerns that has been raised and has been sort of across the land wherever I have gone, is the concern that what is on the table in terms of the agenda for this review, that there may be another motive. That is, to come up with a rationale or a justification to sell the Power Corporation for a quick cash infusion. I was wondering if the Minister could speak to that issue and clarify it for the record. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat , Mr. Handley .

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Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that there are lots of rumours out there about why we might be undertaking this study now. I have certainly heard rumours that we were going to sell the Power Corporation. I also heard this week that we were not going to sell the Power Corporation. There are lots of them on every possible scenario. There is no pre-determining of the conclusions. We have contracted four very specialized experts in this field to do a study for us. We have given them terms of reference. We expect their report back by the end of the month and we are not determining it ahead of time at all. If there is any rumour that we have pre-determined this, it is totally a rumour. Thank you.

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Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the other areas of concern in regard to this review is the limited public consultation. Is this going to be the final strategy or is this just a start and at some point down the road, there will be a more comprehensive review done with full public consultation? Right now, from what I have seen, the public consultation is very, very limited. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, this review is one that, as I said, is being headed up by four people who have tremendous expertise, experience and knowledge in the whole power generation or energy generation field. They have been mandated to come back to us with a broad study of how we can best achieve the purposes that I laid out before.

They will come back to us by the end of November. Once we receive that study, there is every intention to go out and do consultation on it. We have to get the broad framework in place though, before we can begin to deal with specific initiatives that might come out of the study and the implementation of those. The implementation of specific pieces will come later on, but we need this to understand the broad framework first. That is what these four experts have been charged with doing. Yes, there will be consultation after we receive the report at the end of November. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, then that makes very critical the question of who is going to be doing the review? Who are the experts? Do they have a particular ideological or professional position that they favour and is it going to be a filter through which they look at and develop all the recommendations? Could the Minister indicate to this House who are these experts, as he refers to them, and what are some of their backgrounds for this kind of work? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . I believe there are two questions there. Mr. Handley , you may choose to answer whichever one you like. Thank you.

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Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The project team is being led by Mr. Jim Robertson, who is a Northwest Territories businessman and former chairman and CEO of the NTPC. In addition, he has three other people with expertise in this area: Mr. Rick Heinemann, who is an energy consultant and expert on greenhouse gases and energy policy and he is a former deputy minister of energy for the province of Alberta; Mr. Dave Morrison, who is an electrical utility consultant and former assistant chairman of NTPC; and Mr. Fred Abbott, who is an electrical utility consultant and former managing partner of a major multinational consulting group.

Mr. Speaker, we believe that these men collectively have tremendous experience and expertise in the whole area of power generation and are optimistic that they will give us an excellent report. Thank you.

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Question 243-14(3): Scope Of Power Generation Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and they relate to my concern about political interference in the operations of the corporation.

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Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

An Hon. Member

Shame.

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Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

The big question, Mr. Speaker, is does the Minister have confidence in the board of directors of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation?

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Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That goes without saying that I do, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Return To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 822

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would actually prefer that he did say that. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister tell us if the board did advise him early in his term, in fact, months before the government interfered in the process of the franchise in Hay River, about their plan to pursue the franchise in Hay River?

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Supplementary To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, the term is not that we "interfered" in Hay River. We asked the parties to withdraw their proposals. Thank you.

-- Interjection

Additionally, I was aware that the Power Corporation had been invited to submit a proposal. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister advise the House, did the board request the Minister to ask this government to issue a directive halting notification going to those employees likely to be affected by division in the Power Corporation?

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Supplementary To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The corporation does as a corporation does. The government sometimes has a larger mandate to ensure that issues for the Territory as a whole are protected. In view of the fact that a review was being done for power generation in the Northwest Territories, including the NTPC, it was prudent to have the corporation address the issue of staffing. At that point, the government issued a directive in that regard. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

Some Hon. Member

Pretty feeble, pretty feeble.

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Supplementary To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take that answer as no, that the board did not ask for the directive to be issued. Mr. Speaker, the Minister may take issue with my calling this political interference, but I do not think that it can be characterized any other way.

Given the Minister's statement first that the board has his confidence, do they have the mandate to run the corporation or has this government now decided to run it like a department of government?

-- Interjection

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Supplementary To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue of running a corporation is left to the board of directors, but there is also a shareholder involved in this that has the interest of all of the Northwest Territories at heart and in mind and in consideration for the future. I think that has to be remembered, Mr. Speaker, as a very important issue to address because there were a lot of issues coming on the table.

There was the issue of division, the possible downsizing of the corporation and the franchise issues in other communities. We have four communities where we have no franchises and in the next two-and-a-half-years, we have ten other communities with no franchises or a renewal for franchises. The issues out there were numerous. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 244-14(3): Nwt Power Corporation Governance Issues

Question 244-14(3): NWT Power Corporation Governance Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question at this time will be directed to the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation .

In line with my Member's statement, Mr. Speaker, there is concern growing in Inuvik over the differences that seem to be put in place over residents and ratepayers across the Northwest Territories and how this government deals with that and how this government is getting more involved with that.

Mr. Speaker, my question for the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation is in the area of this fuel stabilization fund and as well, how that is compared with the low water rate rider we all had to pay a number of years ago. First, the fuel stabilization fund. Can the Minister give us an update? Are all residents and ratepayers across the Northwest Territories paying that? Thank you.

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Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The fuel stabilization fund has a $2 million cap on it and when that is depleted, it is important to replenish. The Power Corporation then seeks to introduce a rate rider that applies across the Territory to all individuals, all consumers.

In the case of the recent rate rider, the GNWT assisted with that by providing the cost of the increase for individuals up to 700 kilowatt hours. Thank you.

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Return To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 823

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister is muddying the waters here. We all know every resident in the Northwest Territories already qualifies for the first 700 kilowatt hours of power subsidy that we as residents enjoy, and hopefully continue to enjoy as this study goes ahead and the report comes back. My question was, is everyone in the Northwest Territories paying the rate rider that is out there now and equates to almost 11 percent on their consumer bills? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

I believe, Mr. Speaker, that it was added to all invoices sent out.

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Further Return To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Then why is it sent out to residents who are not on diesel fuel any longer? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the Member may be referring to the community of Inuvik and if I may speak on that, the community was on diesel fuel and received the benefit of that from 1996 to 1990. In the interim, the cost of fuel changed. At one time, the community received bunker "C" fuel from Norman Wells, which was at a cheaper rate. When that was switched, of course, the community of Inuvik received more expensive fuel, but it was not charged to the community at the time. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister give us further clarification on what he just stated. We did not pay for the higher cost of fuel? Is he referring to when this government and the Power Corporation changed, where it received fuel that is now out of Strathcona, Alberta instead of Norman Wells? Is he referring to that, because that it is a whole different bailiwick. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am informed that the fuel that was used was from Norman Wells, which was a cheaper fuel. When the refinery shut down, it was no longer available and more expensive fuel had then to be supplied, which was not reflected in the rates in Inuvik. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Question 245-14(3): Fuel Stabilization Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am very concerned about the role the Northwest Territories Power Corporation will continue to have in Hay River. We do not know, Mr. Speaker, what the effect of division will have on the staff of the Power Corporation. There is enough supporting evidence around to suggest that the government may be considering selling the corporation. Can the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation inform this Assembly whether there will be conditions placed on any potential sale of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation that will protect the jobs of the people already employed by the Corporation? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Return To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that would be premature to address, Mr. Speaker. As Minister Handley has stated, we have a review underway and that review is expected to be completed by the end of this particular month. Any contractual arrangements with employees presumably will have to stay in place. Thank you.

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Return To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would think that one of the things they would be looking at and taking into consideration is the employees. Mr. Speaker, has the government as part of this review looked at what severance packages would cost the government if the Power Corporation was to be sold and jobs were lost? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 824

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is not part of this particular part of the review, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Ootes . Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the government stepped in, Mr. Speaker, and asked the two proponents to withdraw their proposals, the Town of Hay River was under the opinion that they had two proposals in front of them that were going to bring some fairly good benefits to the residents of Hay River. Can the Minister give this Assembly any assurance that Hay River will benefit from some of the packages they had in front of them before the government stepped in? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The proposals, Mr. Speaker, were withdrawn by both parties at the meeting that I was at with town council. I believe they had stated they were going to pursue the purchase of the assets in the community, and what happens from there on is, I suppose, up to the community to decide the process from here. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a few minutes ago, I heard the Finance Minister say that after we get the results from this review, there will be a consultation period. Does this mean, Mr. Speaker, that the employees from the Power Corporation are going to be kept in the dark for a while longer? If so, Mr. Speaker, how much longer?

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Supplementary To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey . The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation , Mr. Ootes .

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Further Return To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The board of directors had directed the corporation to ensure that they have up until January 31st, I believe, to make decisions with regard to any layoffs. That was the decision that was made by the corporation. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of Nwt Power Corporation

Question 246-14(3): Conditions Of Sale Of NWT Power Corporation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will address my question to Mr. Handley . It is about the power generation and distribution review and about the Power Corporation. The Premier is not here or I would have asked him to refer to the appropriate Minister. I am wondering about the mandate that the consultant has been given to look at a range of options. I assume we are talking about everything from do nothing to privatize the Power Corporation, and there are some things in between. Could Mr. Handley let us know exactly what the consultant has been tasked with? Thank you.

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Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell . The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned before, and I will go through them again, the consultants were asked to look at a number of issues of public interest. One is security of supply. Second is quality and reliability of service, cost of service, affordability of rates, responsiveness to client needs, adaptability to changing service conditions, and return on public investment. More specifically to the question, we did not give the consultants specific options to look at. They were given broad terms of reference.

They were given some guiding questions to be considered, but we did not say, look at this option versus this option. These people are experts in the business with much more expertise than we have, and we trust that in responding to the terms of reference, they will look at any options that they feel are viable within these terms. Again, I mentioned that these terms of reference were circulated to all of the Members on September 18th. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Bell .

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Supplementary To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I was aware of the criteria and issues that were to be addressed by the consultant, and it has been suggested that they had a very broad mandate, but I would assume that by now, Mr. Handley has had a chance to meet with the consultants who are doing the review, and I am certain that they have supplied him with some of the range of options they are looking at. I would assume there are things like do nothing, turn the Power Corporation into a government department, expand the mandate of the Power Corporation, privatize the Power Corporation. Can Mr.

Handley confirm, in his dealings with the consultant since the time of the RFP, whether or not these are the issues they are looking at and if there are others that I have missed? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell . The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 825

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I have met with the consultants a couple of times and I am very optimistic, given the updates they have provided. At this time, as I say, they are looking at a broad range of options. I am sure the ones that the Member has mentioned have certainly crossed their minds and have entered into discussions that they have had. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 826

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Bell .

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Supplementary To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 826

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister's knowledge, have I missed any obvious ones?

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Supplementary To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 826

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell . The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 826

Joe Handley

Weledeh

To my knowledge, you probably have, yes.

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Further Return To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 826

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Handley . Final supplementary, Mr. Bell .

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Supplementary To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 826

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Would he be willing to share the ones that I have missed with me, Mr. Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Question 247-14(3): Power Generation And Distribution Review

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 826

The Speaker

Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell . The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat , Mr. Handley .

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