Debates of June 1st, 2005

This is page numbers 137 - 176 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Senior Citizens' Week

Recognition Of Community Firefighters And Fire Departments

NWT Literacy Council's Community Book Drive

Property Taxes In Smaller Communities

NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Access To Medical Transportation Services In Communities

Log Home Building Initiative Training Money For Jean Marie River

Need For An All-weather Road Strategy For The Sahtu

Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Community Consultation On Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Development Of Green Space In Yellowknife

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Dust Control Practices For The Nwt

Accuracy Of Information Provided By The Nwthc

Bc-nwt Health Authorities Interjurisdictional Agreement

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Tabled Document 12-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program Policy

Tabled Document 13-15(4): Fair Practices Office Annual Report

Tabled Document 14-15(4): Annual Report On The Activities Of The Rental Office

Tabled Document 15-15(4): Yellowknife Catholic Schools Letter To Bill Braden

Tabled Document 16-15(4): History/chronology Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Tabled Document 17-15(4): Program Fit To Dene K'onia Facility, Hay River, Nt (ttc) Project

Tabled Document 18-15(4): Residential Treatment Facilities For Children

Item 16: Motions

Appointment Of Information And Privacy Commissioner

Bill 1: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 2005-2006

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Committee Motion 1-15(4) To Delete $505,000 From Health Services Programs Activity

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 2: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 2004-2005

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 137

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The languages being simultaneously translated today are French and North Slavey, for the information of Members. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for Seniors , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 15-15(4): Senior Citizens' Week

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 137

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, Senior Citizens' Week will be celebrated in the NWT from June 5 to 11, 2005. This year, the theme is Stay Active, Be Healthy. Seniors that stay active within the community and remain as healthy as possible set an example for our youth and contribute to their communities by sharing their wisdom and life experience.

In the past few years, as part of the celebration of Senior Citizens' Week, an annual seniors' tea was held at the Great Hall in conjunction with the NWT Seniors' Society annual general meeting. This year, the NWT Seniors' Society has graciously offered to help many communities organize events to celebrate Senior Citizens' Week. I am pleased to announce that festivities will be held across the NWT in the Beaufort-Delta, Sahtu, South Slave, North Slave and Deh Cho regions.

Madam Speaker, as Minister responsible for Seniors , I would like to recognize and thank all seniors in the NWT for their contributions they make to our families and communities. I ask that we join in recognition of seniors throughout the NWT and each one of us take the opportunity to participate in celebrations during Senior Citizens' Week. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 15-15(4): Senior Citizens' Week

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 137

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. McLeod.

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Minister's Statement 16-15(4): Recognition Of Community Firefighters And Fire Departments

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 137

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to speak today about the important role of community firefighters and fire departments. Not only are firefighters our friends and neighbours, they are also essential volunteers who contribute to the public health and safety of our communities.

Firefighters are held in high esteem for the dangerous work they do on our behalf. Because of recent events in Yellowknife, where two community firefighters lost their lives, we all have an increased awareness of the risks firefighters take to protect us and our loved ones.

To recognize the essential work done by community fire departments and firefighters, every year the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs sponsors the NWT Fire Service Merit Awards. As part of the nomination process, communities in each of the five regions are asked to nominate one person from the fire department in their community as a candidate for this award. Communities are also asked to nominate their local fire departments based on their improvement in community-based fire protection services.

A selection committee comprised of representatives from communities and Northwest Territories fire services review the nominations and select one person from each region for the award. The committee also selects one individual from this same list of five regional nominees who is recognized as the overall outstanding individual in the Northwest Territories.

The committee then selects one fire department from among the nominations. That fire department is then recognized as the most improved in the Northwest Territories.

The Fire Service Merit Awards give communities the opportunity to recognize and acknowledge the dedicated people who give so generously of their time. Nominations for the awards close on June 30th and I encourage all residents of the Northwest Territories to submit a nomination form and take an active role in thanking the brave firefighters and fire departments that help to keep our communities safe.

In addition to encouraging the residents of the Northwest Territories to submit a nomination form for the Fire Service Merit Awards, I would also encourage residents to volunteer with their community fire department. Depending on the community, the time commitment required from individuals is not large, but the benefit to individuals and to the community is invaluable. Madam Speaker, firefighters are the first line of defence when fire threatens our communities. Notably, local residents who volunteer their time to keep their communities safe deserve our respect and thanks. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 16-15(4): Recognition Of Community Firefighters And Fire Departments

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 137

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 17-15(4): NWT Literacy Council's Community Book Drive

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 138

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good afternoon. Today, I would like to inform Members about the NWT Literacy Council's community book drive.

We all know children who are read to at home do better in school. Reading is one of the best things we can do at any age to increase and maintain our own levels of literacy. With this in mind, for the last several years the NWT Literacy Council has held an annual book drive.

Those who have books to spare may drop them off at locations throughout the city of Yellowknife or at Government of the Northwest Territories offices in Fort Smith, Fort Simpson, Hay River and Inuvik. In fact, there is a drop-of box here at the Legislative Assembly. All books donated will be distributed to smaller communities to use in a variety of literacy programs, including family literacy events.

This year, the community book drive has expanded to include books for all ages, not just children's books. This is an excellent approach because as we often discuss in this House, northerners of all ages need to work to increase their literacy skills.

I would like to encourage everyone to donate their spare books to the community book drive before June 17th. I ask all Members to join me in thanking the NWT Literacy Council for their work on the community book drive. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 17-15(4): NWT Literacy Council's Community Book Drive

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 138

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Property Taxes In Smaller Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 138

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Today I rise in the House to raise an issue that's been ongoing for quite some time. I am talking about the outstanding issues of property taxes in smaller communities in the Northwest Territories. Madam Speaker, this issue requires cooperation and coordination of two GNWT departments, Municipal and Community Affairs and FMBS, to find an amicable solution that many of the homeowners and ratepayers can live with. I hope this challenge does not impede the process and that the delays in finding an agreeable approach to tackle this issue are dealt with before the end of this taxation year.

Madam Speaker, during my constituency meeting in Deninu Kue, there were many concerns raised about the threatening letters residents received from FMBS stating that their outstanding taxation amounts and the actions they may face like the seizure of their homes that may be publicly auctioned off by this government should these people refuse to abide by the Financial Administration Act and clear their outstanding accounts as soon as possible.

Madam Speaker, one can only imagine the undue stress that this can cause for many of the elders that are receiving these letters. People who are unemployed are receiving these letters and families that are receiving these letters are struggling to make ends meet. I realize that this government cannot wipe the outstanding amounts from the books as this would be deemed unfair to persons who are already paying their share in these communities, but I also realize from my experience that the assessments and the levy of taxation to many of these delinquent accounts cannot be deemed as equitable and fair according to the Property Assessment and Taxation Act.

Madam Speaker, this is the first step that must be taken to rectify this problem in order for this department to conduct an assessment that reflects the true value of the properties, an assessment which is fair and equitable in all aspects, a process that would indeed be agreeable by all parties involved.

I am willing to work diligently with both Ministers to assist them in developing a plan to see some closure to this issue before the new deal rolls out and before the smaller communities are left with this dilemma to deal with; a fair deal that is acceptable, not an approach that conceals the underlying issues at hand.

I am glad to know that the Municipal and Community Affairs Minister has made a commitment in this House to developing a working group to conduct the workshops in the affected communities so that this issue can be concluded by the end of the taxation year 2005. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Property Taxes In Smaller Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 138

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake . Mr. Ramsay .

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NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 138

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Out of the $37 billion the federal government collects from the goods and services tax across the country, it is estimated the Northwest Territories pays about .002 percent of that. That amounts to about $60 million; $60 million that would certainly go a lot further here in the Northwest Territories than it does in Ottawa.

Madam Speaker, in order to keep the hard-earned dollars of territorial residents in the northern economy, I think the federal government should exempt us from paying the goods and services tax.

The goods and services tax is rumoured to cost about as much to administer as it is to collect. The Liberal government in 1993 even promised to abolish this tax, but here we are 12 years later still paying our hard-earned money in support of this tax.

Madam Speaker, we have a very high cost of living and minimal services in many of our communities, so we have a hard time attracting and retaining a qualified workforce. The doctors are leaving the territory faster than we can ever hope to recruit them. Mines like Diavik say they can't find qualified staff because no one wants to move up here. Our own government is having an extremely difficult time in staffing our pipeline office in Hay River. Exempting the Northwest Territories from paying the GST would begin to help us level the playing field.

I think we should explore joining forces with both Nunavut and the Yukon territory, who may also wish to seek exemption from the GST. The population of all three northern territories, Madam Speaker, is roughly 85,000; about the same size as a city like Red Deer, Alberta. It would not impact the federal government's bottom line if they took a serious look at exempting the three northern territories.

The high cost of shipping products to the North already raises the prices in taxes in our stores. The price of shipped goods is even more expensive because the GST applies to shipping as well as the cost of goods. What happens is our residents pay the GST several times over. The Yukon government has even looked at eliminating the goods and services tax on heating fuels and electricity in recognition of the colder climate faced north of 60.

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 139

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

The Member for Kam Lake is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? Mr. Ramsay , there are no nays. You may conclude your statement.

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NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 139

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Yukon government says that eliminating the GST on fuel would put $200 back into each and every Yukon household and, therefore, back into the Yukon economy.

Madam Speaker, the federal government considers basic groceries, music lessons and even false teeth important enough to be exempt from the GST. Well I believe that we need some kind of competitive edge, some incentive to attract and retain a skilled workforce. The Northern Strategy has to recognize the fact that Northern Canada is a very expensive place to live. We have to try to find a way to give northern Canadians a break.

If the federal government's true intention is three strong northern territories, northern development, sovereignty and social growth and development, then a very good start would be to have the federal government exempt the three northern territories from paying GST. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 139

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Access To Medical Transportation Services In Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 139

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I rise to talk about transportation for health patients in the riding of Nunakput. For the past number of years, Nunakput residents have experienced a lack of transportation services for patients.

Madam Speaker, a concern was raised by constituents, in particular in a letter to the Minister of Health and Social Services from the Hamlet of Holman, that both elderly and patients in general have to find their own ride to either go to the health centre or report for medical reasons outside of their community. The hamlet operates a handy-van for purposes such as this, but it is outdated and costly.

This, Madam Speaker, causes problems in smaller communities where there are no taxi services. Although there may be taxi services in some communities, it is not a solution because some taxi services are not reliable. As an example, Madam Speaker, Reindeer Point residents in Tuktoyaktuk live about 10 kilometres from the hamlet. The local taxi will not respond to taxi calls from residents of Reindeer Point. Imagine if a resident or patient needs to go to the health centre for medical reasons and cannot find a ride, what can happen to these individuals. This concerns me as well as my constituents.

In closing, Madam Speaker, the elderly and patients in general should have access to transportation services to health centres as well as translation services. How can the Department of Health and Social Services address this concern? Maybe, Madam Speaker, one option is to allow other government departments in the communities to have access to their vehicles. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Access To Medical Transportation Services In Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 139

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Log Home Building Initiative Training Money For Jean Marie River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 139

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I will be addressing the request from the community of Jean Marie River for their log home building training program. Jean Marie, along with Wrigley and Nahanni Butte just to name a few, do not have economic development officers and are not home communities to large economic development initiatives. They are small communities with limited economic activities and opportunities. When the community of Jean Marie embarks on a log home building initiative and needs assistance with training dollars, we should be giving special consideration when evaluating their training and economic development requests.

Furthermore, the funds requested were minimal, Madam Speaker, not even equivalent to the postage cost of any one of our departments. This government has previously expressed support for this initiative in Jean Marie River, however, their response today is no. This seems to be a contradiction. Concerns and initiatives in small communities seem to be overlooked by this government, with our administration only responding to what they think we want to hear or with a generic commitment.

The full-size recreational facility in Nahanni Butte and adequate and regular medical services for the community of Wrigley seem to be an ongoing promise by the GNWT and never seem to solidify to anything an MLA can take back to their home communities. The stimulation of economic development is critical to the future of all communities. Industry, Tourism and Investment say they recognize the value and the importance of adequate financial resources going toward community-based initiatives, so this lack of support is unacceptable for a government who prides themselves on being a government of the people.

I strongly support the training request from Jean Marie River. Small communities seem to be left with what other larger communities have decided and as each department, organization and regional office deduct their administration costs, we are left with a minimal trickled

down amount. This government must have continued and consistent resources for our smaller communities, Madam Speaker. Thank you very much.

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Log Home Building Initiative Training Money For Jean Marie River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 140

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

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Log Home Building Initiative Training Money For Jean Marie River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 140

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Need For An All-weather Road Strategy For The Sahtu

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 140

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. At the start of the 15th Legislative Assembly, we all came here to debate and work for our constituencies and the entire Northwest Territories on the issues of today. Madam Speaker, over the course of this Legislative Assembly we, as legislators, initiate, amend and debate matters brought forward by Cabinet and government. Most importantly, we bring forth our vision for the North and how we can thrive under the unique circumstances of living up here in the North.

Madam Speaker, we, as legislators, work towards building our NWT nation. Mr. Diefenbaker's quoted vision for the North was to build a road that connects the North with the rest of Canada and that builds a foundation of brotherhood, vision and faith. Madam Speaker, unfortunately that vision of a road was not fully realized as I thought it would be.

Madam Speaker, the Sahtu region and other regions have vast resources of wealth. We have witnessed an increase in resource development activities. There's also the Bear River hydro dam. This is the largest potential project, next to the Mackenzie gas pipeline. We have also great potential for tourism, Madam Speaker. We have world-class fishing available to us in Great Bear Lake.

Madam Speaker, our region is an area with great potential for economic growth and development, but we need the roads to get there. The Sahtu needs the government to put a high priority in developing an all-weather road strategy for us. We want to be connected by road to the southern parts of the Northwest Territories. That is the Sahtu solution to this matter.

Finally, Madam Speaker, a road to the Sahtu is no pipe dream. We, as legislators, must do the right thing and start working with our people in the Sahtu so we can support the NWT Canada highway proposal that will include an all-weather road to the Sahtu. Thank you.

---Applause

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Need For An All-weather Road Strategy For The Sahtu

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 140

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 140

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I have to state once again that the proposed transfer of the Territorial Treatment Centre is not a wise decentralization move, but a reckless dismantling of a very fragile and crucial service for children, not only at the Territorial Treatment Centre but all over the North, who increasingly require highly specialized care. Rather than building up on its fragile strength, the government is proposing to start from scratch just because it's politically expedient. I would like to ask the government to hold off this plan until a substantive assessment has been done.

Further, the government should look into maintaining the current specialized services at the Territorial Treatment Centre in Yellowknife and at the same time placing at Dene K'onia another level of youth treatment centre because there is a huge waiting list and I know there is a need for this.

Madam Speaker, as I already stated, the insistence on the part of Ministers Dent and Miltenberger, however sincere, that the extraordinary special needs of these children are going to be taken care of in Hay River as well as they do in Yellowknife is hollow. I'm telling you this because this is simply not possible. I have to state for all the good people in this Assembly and out there that it is not because Yellowknife thinks it is the biggest and the best because it's large.

It is because that even as a big city, these services in Yellowknife, the services for pediatricians, psychiatrists, audio therapists, speech therapists and ENT specialists are in terribly short supply and they have been carefully stitched together for the whole of the Territories. It is because these children are located in Yellowknife that they are now able to have regular treatment that they need.

Already in Yellowknife this summer we are losing an ENT specialist and psychiatrist. We have already had to rely on a visiting child psychiatrist from Edmonton who comes here only once a month. I'm told that he gets four to five files each time he comes and he has almost 100 files of children on his mandate.

Madam Speaker, the information the Minister provided to us yesterday in our mailboxes shows that in every category, the services available for children in Hay River fall short to what is available in Yellowknife. This is not about Hay River or anything, but it is about the reality; the reality of the difficulty we have all over the country in recruiting and retaining very specialized service providers.

Madam Speaker, we have to understand that there are in the NWT an alarming statistic of children with severe cases of behavioural, emotional and mental health needs. Whether they be caused...

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Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 140

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Your time for your Member's statement has expired, Ms. Lee .

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Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 140

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to finish my statement.

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Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 140

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays, Ms. Lee . You may conclude your statement.

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Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 140

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker and colleagues. May I just conclude by saying that, Madam Speaker, we have to understand that all over the NWT we have an alarming statistic of children with severe cases of behavioural, emotional and mental health needs, whether they be caused by FASD, a dysfunctional home environment or clinical issues. This centre in Yellowknife is the only network of specialized care we have and surrounding it are a web of highly specialized services that these children desperately need.

The right thing for the government to do is to strengthen what we have so that you can serve all of the North and that we are ready for the increasing needs in future. This decentralization move is nothing short of a destruction and dismantling of something very fragile that we need to have for the children of the North. If we could for one moment forget that this is in Yellowknife, I know that everyone here would agree that there is no need to move it or change it or dismantle it or fix something that is not broken. I believe there are lots of other issues of the fiscal matters that we'll be discussing throughout the day today. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 141

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Community Consultation On Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 141

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister of Health and Social Services and , I believe, the Premier yesterday did indeed offer to provide Members with further substantiation of the move of the Territorial Treatment Centre to Hay River. Without getting into it in detail, Madam Speaker, it was quite an extensive document, but did not provide me with the substantiation that I was looking for, Madam Speaker, and that is the consultation, the collaboration, the cooperation of the many stakeholders that this community has in providing services to the children with severe behavioural problems who are the residents of the Territorial Treatment Centre.

The core of this issue is the confidence of the community to know that a relocation will not disrupt or disturb what is already a very significant part of the lives of these children, of their families, and indeed of a number of other organizations in the city of Yellowknife that have over the past decade, collaborated, cooperated, and worked with each other to build this very vital service.

I just wanted to comment, Madam Speaker, that despite receiving, I don't know, almost 200 pages yesterday, it is void of any evidence that they have really thought this plan through and that is why I am one Member, and I know there are others on this side, who will continue to seek the deferral of this program at least until there is a consultative plan that can restore the confidence of the communities and the families and the kids involved in continuing this plan. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Community Consultation On Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 141

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Development Of Green Space In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 141

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The City of Yellowknife is under a lot of pressure and has increasing demands for more residential lots and subdivisions in the city of Yellowknife. The residential areas are needed to add to the city's quality of life, allowing the city's increasing economic growth and to accommodate the city's future workforce, the workforce that we are desperately trying to attract with initiatives done by this government. However, there is a very low supply of available residential lots and subdivisions at a reasonable cost to develop within this city.

Recently, the City of Yellowknife developed a residential study prepared to evaluate the feasibility of in-field development opportunities on 15 sites within the urban area of Yellowknife and some of these sites are nature preserves and parks and recreation areas. Some of these sites and green spaces which are now slotted for development are, for example, the Taylor Road area, possibly even the community gardens area and maybe even behind the Avens area. These could disappear in our city forever because there's a lack of available land and affordable land to be developed in a reasonable way.

Madam Speaker, the hallmark of any capital city or any city in Canada, for a fact, is the abundant amount of green space in that city. Look to the river valley of Edmonton and the park systems of Ottawa and you'll know exactly what I mean. Not to mention about what the abundant green space does for the quality of life, as well as the community atmosphere in that particular area.

I don't want the city to unnecessarily feed on itself because they have no support for future residential subdivision development and I don't want to see the Yellowknives Dene not being given their right to ascertain lands that belong to them. But, Madam Speaker, we have a role here to play and it needs to be played by our Premier , a Premier I would like to see work with the City of Yellowknife and the Yellowknives Dene to work out opportunities so everyone can be happy to get what they need and definitely deserve.

I think there's an opportunity here so we don't have to go back and eat up our valuable green spaces, our parks and recreation areas or even our nature preserves so people don't have to fight over those areas just to build houses.

Madam Speaker, an affordability role needs to be played and I think our Premier can work as a great mediator to help solve some of these problems we have here in the city of Yellowknife. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Development Of Green Space In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 141

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 141

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm honoured today to welcome to our Legislative Assembly the Consul General of Indonesia, Bunyan Saptomo...

---Applause

...and Consul for Consul Affairs for Indonesia, Bebeb Djundjunan.

---Applause

Madam Speaker, they're accompanied today by our protocol and communications officer, Carmen Moore, and summer student working with Ms. Moore, Anne Marie Summerfield.

---Applause

Madam Speaker, I'd also like to recognize my loyal constituent, Major Karen Hoeft.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 142

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Premier Handley, and welcome to our visitors in the gallery today. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 142

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, it's with pleasure I get to introduce in the gallery my constituency assistant who is down on training, Brenda Dillon.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 142

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I was saying in my Member's statement today, I am concerned that possibly we could be reaching an area of stalemate between the City of Yellowknife and the Yellowknives Dene. I firmly believe the Yellowknives Dene have a right to land, and land that belongs to them and their personal development, so do I believe in the growth of the city of Yellowknife and I'd hate to see that impeded in any way. My question to the Premier is would he use his mediation skills, talents and abilities to help mediate the situation before a stalemate reaches an untimely death? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . To the honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. There is a process, an agreed to process, for dealing with transfer of land between the Government of the Northwest Territories, the City of Yellowknife, and there's also an interim measures agreement with the Yellowknives Dene on how we will do that; the Akaitcho, sorry, more than the Yellowknives Dene. That is managed through the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs and, Madam Speaker, I believe that Municipal and Community Affairs along with Aboriginal Affairs are working very effectively and cooperatively with both the city and with the Yellowknives Dene. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Return To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Premier Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I do recognize the process and it was set up by this government many years ago. It was a one-year moratorium on land so we could settle the land claim process. But, Madam Speaker, the Yellowknives do have an entitlement to land, as does the city of Yellowknife have an entitlement for growth. Unfortunately, I would never like to see them conflict.

That being said, would the Premier assure me that he's working towards a mediation process or even just being there to help assist this process, so no stalemate ever exists between these two groups, so the City of Yellowknife is not forced to go back to gobbling up their nature preserves for residential development? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. There is no need for a mediation process. It's working effectively now. To my understanding, all the parties are working in accordance with the agreements that we have and I'm optimistic, in fact I'm fairly certain that there will be an agreement of how to accommodate everyone's needs; the needs of the Yellowknives Dene and their rights to land, as well as the needs of the city.

Madam Speaker, I might add that even though the city has prepared and had approval of a general plan, I don't know of them ever asking for residential land. I wouldn't want people to believe that somehow things are being held up here, because I don't believe there has been a request for residential land from the city. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Premier Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I guess what I'm getting at is the City of Yellowknife may feel the pressure of the Yellowknives Dene and their right to entitlement of land, so maybe they haven't applied for those particular lands, recognizing there is a right. Yet the City of Yellowknife is going back and looking seriously at its nature preserves and its green space. I'm looking for the Premier to make sure he plays a role in this process. I'm asking the Premier in his capacity of possibly Minister of Aboriginal Affairs to make sure that the selection process goes forward and we can get that moving along again so the city of Yellowknife isn't impeded in its growth. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 142

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Madam Speaker, I wouldn't want the public to believe that somehow the city is doing an in-fill study, if that's what it's called -- and I'm not familiar with the detail of it -- because they can't get any land for residential development. The fact is they have not applied to us for more residential land. I believe the in-fill study they're doing is simply a study they're doing as part of

their planning for the city and that's something that's totally within the mandate of the city. It's something we wouldn't get involved in. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Question 69-15(4): Role Of GNWT In Land Negotiations Between The City Of Yellowknife And The Yellowknives Band

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Premier . I wasn't getting a sense whether this was if the city applied for land and if the city applies for land would the Premier be involved. It's a hypothetical question. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions today are for the Premier . Madam Speaker, the Northern Strategy that we've talked numerous times about in this House and in the Great Hall of this Assembly sets out some guiding principles and it does recognize the fact that we have unique challenges here in Northern Canada. I've mentioned, in this House, tax credits, trust funds, and, today, exemption from the GST as ways that we can get a competitive edge on attracting and retaining residents. We've been waiting quite patiently some 13 years for the federal government to come up with this Northern Strategy.

I'd like to ask the Premier today if he could start a dialogue with Ottawa on exempting the Northwest Territories from paying the goods and services tax. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Madam Speaker, either myself or, more appropriately, the Minister of Finance may want to raise those issues with the federal Finance Minister or with the Minister responsible for the CCRA. The point is an interesting one. It has implications that are good. It also has implications that are not something we would welcome necessarily. But, yes, I think we're always open to doing that, whether it's with GST or different ways of doing taxes or whatever it may be that is more beneficial to northerners. We recognize the high cost of living and doing business and the need to attract people to live here and do business here. So creative ideas we take very seriously. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Return To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Premier what exactly his government is doing to address the high cost of living to the residents of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Premier Handley.

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Further Return To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. That's a bit of a different question, Madam Speaker. Rather than get into the detail of what we are doing in the taxation area, I think the question deals with a whole list of things that have been included in our first budget and in the last budget. Madam Speaker, taxation and tax benefits are one piece of it. Our government did make changes, the last government, the 14th Assembly, to the way personal income tax is handled. I think that was beneficial to everyone. We have increased the cost of living allowance. We've made those kinds of changes.

Madam Speaker, there are also issues that we think are much broader. For example, we've done a lot of work on promoting hydro development as a way of getting the cost of living down, as another example. Madam Speaker, it's a very broad question and I could stand here for two hours and list the things we have been doing, but I don't think that's what the Member wants right now. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Premier Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am sure the Premier and the Finance Minister do get the point that I am getting at, which is the fact that anything in this Northern Strategy and anything I have seen since becoming a Member of this Legislative Assembly, the only thing I have seen is us raising taxes. I don't believe we have taken a good, solid look at how we can decrease the cost of living on our residents. I know other countries around the world have identified certain areas of their country as economic areas of development and things of that nature.

I don't know why the federal government wouldn't look at Northern Canada as having a similar feel and take a look at us as being different and respect the fact that it does cost more to live in the Northwest Territories and in the other two territories, as well. I would like to ask the Premier if he will take this issue seriously. I do believe the Premier will take it seriously and take it up with the other two northern Premiers and at least start a dialogue on what the federal government can do to help reduce the high cost of living in the three northern territories. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Premier Handley.

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Further Return To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Madam Speaker, yes, I will take that very seriously and so do the other northern Premiers. I will raise it again with them. I have to say that the Prime Minister has shown a lot of personal interest in the Northern Strategy and I know that he is also interested. Yes, I will follow up with this, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 70-15(4): Nwt Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Question 70-15(4): NWT Exemption From Goods And Services Tax

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Premier Handley. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 143

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Education . I was at a briefing today with respect to tobacco addictions, Madam Speaker. I was thinking in addictions overall, how much of a role does our Education department play in the

curriculum of teaching our children about addictions? How much time do we have set aside in our education system, Madam Speaker, with respect to teaching our children about addictions?

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Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I can't answer the question as to how many minutes or hours might be involved, but I can say that our curriculum includes the teaching of issues around additions starting from the earliest grades. There is a much heavier emphasis in the health curriculum by the time students get to the junior high level and then it carries on into the high school. It is something that is included in all levels of schooling in the discussions. Thank you.

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Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am aware of some of the initiatives, particularly by the RCMP or the Justice department in terms of the DARE program. I am just wondering about some of the content about what is available to our youth in the schools. I recently quit smoking cigarettes...

---Applause

....and many years ago I had a personal battle with alcohol and I was able to deal with that by myself. I was just thinking does our curriculum or some of the things we are teaching our children help them know where to turn for help. Is that within what we are teaching them, Madam Speaker?

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Minister Dent .

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Further Return To Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The curriculum focuses on helping young people understand how to make healthy choices. Healthy choices include how to make choices around issues of alcohol, drugs and tobacco. Yes, there is a discussion included around where to get assistance and how to get assistance if that is needed. Many of our schools have incorporated counselling, not just career counselling, but counselling within the schools to help young people so they have a resource, a person they can talk to about making those healthy choices.

For instance, in Norman Wells they have brought a regular counsellor into the school system and it's really made a positive change in the behaviour in the schools, they have found, including how children are interacting with the law. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Is it the priority of this government to continue with the expansion of these programs if they feel it's necessary? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Minister Dent .

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Further Return To Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I said, this is definitely part of the curriculum already. It's something we can work on with our partners in the education system to find out if we need to strengthen the resources that are available. If they do, we will certainly look to do that. We do encourage the schools to take advantage of partnerships with the RCMP, Health and Social Services and other caregivers in the communities to make sure the resources are brought into the classroom to help with this whole process. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Question 71-15(4): Role Of Education In Addictions Programming

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Dent . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, in my statement, I quoted John Diefenbaker's vision to the northern frontier, building roads. In John Diefenbaker's roads in the past 30 years of that vision being voiced in Ottawa, I would like to ask the Minister of Transportation if he could outline a brief strategy of his department's intentions to move on building an all-weather road in the Sahtu region. Thank you.

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Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod.

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Return To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 144

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, like the Member, we share Mr. Diefenbaker's vision to see an all-weather road along the Mackenzie Valley.

---Applause

However, the final decision is not ours to make. We continue to seek funding to improve the road system, extend the season and put the bridge into the Mackenzie Valley winter road. However, we need the federal government onside to provide the dollars to bring it to the point where it is an all-weather road. It's something we strive towards. We've used every avenue that we have to bring that message to Ottawa. We have included it in our long-term strategy. We have a document called Investing in Roads that was put together in 2000 that has the strategy in there to include the Mackenzie Valley winter road, the Tuk road and all other roads that are needed in the NWT.

We are also dealing with this road when we discuss the resource development impacts that are happening in the Northwest Territories. We have raised it with the pipeline proponents. We have increasing meetings with all

developers in the area to see if we can partner with them to raise some funds.

We are also developing a new proposal that we will be sharing with committee that looks at putting a request in to the federal government again along the same lines as the Corridors for Canada.

We also had our Premier raise this issue at his Western Premiers Conference. So we are using every avenue we have out there to bring the message to the federal government and we certainly agree with the Member that this is a well needed structured road that has to be continued to be improved to the point where it's an all-weather road. Thank you.

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Return To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Maybe this government can do one for old Diefenbaker's vision here and push it over the hill, so we can get an all-weather road in the Sahtu and have the federal government give us full support and attention to this matter. Can the Minister advise of any type of public consultation that his department has undertaken with the people of the Sahtu to build an all-weather road in the Sahtu region?

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Supplementary To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister McLeod .

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Further Return To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Madam Speaker, we have had several meetings in the Member's riding. We have been there on a very regular basis over this past year. The issue of an all-weather road or the condition of the Mackenzie Valley winter road has come up on more than one occasion at every meeting. It's a huge concern. It's a significant cost factor. That's something that we recognize. We've also, as part of our consultation, contacted the stakeholders with our proposal, our new draft of our proposal, including the Member. He will be receiving a copy of this proposal.

We are also contacting the chamber of commerce and the trucking association. So we are trying to contact as many people as we can to get some feedback to see if everyone is in agreement that we are on the right track. So that consultation process is ongoing and we will be packaging it up sometime later on this year to bring it forward to the federal government for consideration.

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Further Return To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, regarding the consultation, is there a specific forum that the people in the Sahtu can get together and talk about the strategy and an all-weather road in the Sahtu? I appreciate the Minister's steady trips into the Sahtu and the people appreciate that. What I am looking for, Madam Speaker, is that the Minister can have a specific forum so people in the Sahtu can get together and talk specifically about an all-weather road strategy into the Sahtu so the Minister can take notice and put it into a package for the federal government. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister McLeod .

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Further Return To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Madam Speaker, we are in the process of updating our long-term strategy. The document Investing in Roads was put together in 2000 with consultation with all regions. It's something we would like to update this year. As part of that, we will be talking with the community leaders and we are also hosting a conference, or we just recently hosted a get together with the contractors and some of the people who work for us and do the maintenance on it to see what we can do in terms of improvement.

As for the Department of Transportation to hold a conference, I don't think that's something we were planning to do and I don't know if that's something I would be interested in doing at this point. We have gathered a lot of information over the years. We know the different costs that are required to build roads in the Dogrib region, in the Sahtu or in the Beaufort-Delta. So we have the information. We know there is a need there; we just need to find the right avenue to get the federal government to agree to fund it. That's what we are doing.

If there is a need by the Member for us to have a meeting or specific community meetings, we would be happy to do that as we continue to travel into his riding. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. With the Minister continuing to travel into the communities, hopefully one day he will be able to drive into our communities. The Sahtu is having an annual gathering in August in Colville Lake. I would invite the Minister to that meeting and have a meeting there with the people. Would the Minister consider looking at this type of meeting with our people in terms of bringing the solution to the Sahtu who know the solution: Build the road that can be done over a number of years by using a community approach method and connect all the communities in the Sahtu before connecting down south?

This year, I understand there is going to be about $60 million going into the economy of the Sahtu with oil and gas. I think it's about time the federal government, through the Minister, pays high attention to building an all-weather road in the Sahtu. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . I think it was a question in response to an invitation to come to a gathering in the Sahtu. Mr. McLeod.

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Further Return To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 145

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, we are always very interested and happy to go into the Sahtu, as we have demonstrated over this past year. Anytime we go to the community,

many issues come up and the road, I am sure, will be at the top of the list. We have heard the message from the Member. We have heard the message from his communities that connecting the communities is a very important role. There are other areas in the NWT that need also to be given some attention to be able to connect and improve transportation links within the community. That is an area we will be focussing on as we draft our proposals. We will keep that in consideration.

Rather than focus strictly on reconstruction as a result of high pressures from resource development, this time around we will take into consideration the need to have good transportation links amongst our communities and that will be part of our focus. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Question 72-15(4): All-weather Road For The Sahtu

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Finance and this is in relation to the decision to move the Territorial Treatment Centre to Hay River. Madam Speaker, this Assembly in the last fiscal year, 2004-05, approved an expenditure for the Territorial Treatment Centre here in Yellowknife. I wonder if the Minister could give us a bit of background. What was the amount of money that was approved and what was the status of that project as approved by this Assembly for the last fiscal year? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The money that was approved in 2004-05 for the Territorial Treatment Centre and subsequently brought forward this year would lapse and as we are doing now, the money has now been identified through the supplementary appropriation that is going to come before this House and will be dealt with in that fashion, requesting the Assembly to approve the change in designation of those funds. Those funds were identified for the facility, Territorial Treatment Centre, in Yellowknife. To move that money now to upgrade that facility would require approval of this Assembly. Thank you.

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Return To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When a plan is brought before the Assembly and approval is given, there is an expectation that it will happen or that at least an explanation will be provided in a timely manner why it's not happening. Until a few days ago, Madam Speaker, this House was not aware that the plans to invest that money in the TTC here in Yellowknife had been changed. Can the Minister explain why this Assembly, and certainly at least the Members for Yellowknife, were not made aware of the stoppage of a major program approved by this House? Why didn't he tell us about it? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Minister Roland .

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Further Return To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the project as was outlined in the budget and as the budget is approved, there are expectations from communities and those who have been working on the project of that project moving ahead. There are many projects we can use as examples of a project being on the capital plan and even to the point where you see identified for the next fiscal coming up is then deleted from that program because of other issues that have come up.

In this case, the Department of Health and Social Services came forward to FMB and Cabinet to identify changes in plans and had brought forward the material to request the change and a designation. That has been given and now we are following through as required by the process that we have in place of informing the House as well as seeking approval for moving those dollars that were approved. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Roland . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We are about two months into the new fiscal year now. There must have been some months in the past fiscal year that the government had new information and changed its mind about something but didn't tell us. Will the Minister tell this Assembly today what was it, several months ago obviously, that caused Cabinet to change its mind about the investment in the TTC here in Yellowknife? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Minister Roland .

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Further Return To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the process that we use as a Cabinet and FMB when Ministers would come forward with plans or changes in plans, they would have to come and address their changes to us and seek our approval. In this case, a facility was being considered for a major retrofit or replacement and the estimates that are put into the document, in the budget we vote on, are class D estimates and are still subject to change.

As another facility had become available in the territory and looking at the decentralization aspect of government as well as how we conduct our business, this was brought forward and approval was sought through FMB and we received it. That is why we find ourselves as we are today with the request coming forward through a supplementary for a change in designation of that money. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 146

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Roland . Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Okay. I have the picture on the process here, but I am really looking for the substantiation, Madam Speaker, and the reason that Cabinet accepted the proposal from Health and Social Services, Madam Speaker, without looking for other options or other viable proposals for the use the Dene K'onia facility; obviously a good building, but we have learned requiring substantial new renovations. Was there no thought of looking for other options by which this facility could be utilized? Why was the TTC centre seemingly, Madam Speaker, automatically chosen for this task? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Minister Roland .

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Further Return To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, as the process unfolded and the Minister had come forward with this plan and one other department had declared this space as not being used in the future for government purposes and looking at the plans, at that point the plan had come forward to change communities for the Territorial Treatment Centre. On the basis of the information provided to us, we reviewed it and had approved the plan to proceed. On that basis, we have now come forward with the plan and are asking for approval of this Assembly in moving those dollars. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 73-15(4): Status Of 2004-05 Funding Approval For Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Roland . I just want to draw to the Members' attention that to speak about the Territorial Treatment Centre in the broader context is obviously no problem in question period. However, when referring to it within the context of its inclusion in the supplementary appropriation which is going to be before Committee of the Whole today, in the specific reference that debate may be better left to Committee of the Whole. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my questions are also to the Minister of Finance and it is not in regard to an item before the Committee of the Whole, but in regard to the budget for 2004-05 which has passed. It is in regard to the money for TTC. Madam Speaker, it is only yesterday, I believe, I finally figured out that the money that this Assembly had voted on, as Mr. Braden had stated, $2.4 million was in fact not spent. It was last November that the government started looking at the possibility of moving this.

My general question is how do we as MLAs have any confidence that the money we vote for, for a capital project for something as big as $2.4 million, is going to stay there and get done as it was meant to be? How could a Member for Nahendeh be confident that if he ever managed to get money for the gym in his small community -- for granny from Nahanni...

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Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

Some Hon. Members

Ever.

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Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

...how could he ever be certain that thing is going to be built and that the government is not going to just put it off and just let it lapse and then change its mind? How can we do our jobs in that way? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

Some Hon. Members

Good.

---Applause

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Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the budget as it's laid out and is brought before this House and voted upon gives the government the authority to spend the money on the projects identified. If those projects do not proceed in a timely fashion, then we come back to this Assembly and in the form of a supplementary appropriation to record the amount of capital carryovers for O and M money that was not used in the fiscal year it was identified and we request the carryover. That happens on an annual basis.

One of the first bills we bring before this House in a supplementary document is capital carryovers because for one reason or another, whether it is delay in the planning or a change in the scope of the project or not being able to find a contractor that will do the job with the dollars identified, the project gets delayed and we have to seek approval from this Assembly to carry that money over for those projects. That happens on a regular basis.

As well, in this particular project, when this money was identified and carried over from past years, it was, I believe, at that point known that there were other facilities being looked at as possible areas to move this centre into. One of those would have been the Somba K'e facility that is on the outskirts of Yellowknife. The department was looking at other possible locations already to try and see if it could come up with a facility that would work. As this opportunity it had come available, the department had looked at that and has done some feasibility work in that area and has brought it forward.

On that basis, we have accepted it and are now again coming before this Assembly for approval for moving the dollars. Thank you.

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Return To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Roland . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 147

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I learned via some people in the TTC that apparently DPW came by and poked about 82 holes in this building and never really came back and told them what was right or wrong with this building. In the meantime, the political masters are trying to figure out what to do with this.

I would like to state, Madam Speaker, when we are debating the budget in this House, Ministers fight tooth and nail for every dollar. Members on this side cannot change anything. They convince us that they need this; the sky will fall if it just doesn't get approved. Then we get told a year later we never spent it. There were all sorts of reasons why we could not spend it and we want to change it. Does the Minister, as the Minister responsible for public financing, think that that is the right way to approve and spend expenditures in this Assembly? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Minister of Finance . That question borders on asking your opinion about processes and policies that are already in place with respect to financial administration, but I will let you answer the question.

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Further Return To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I guess to stick to the process, we have followed the rules that are in place. From time to time the Ministers' departments have need to change the plan that has been presented before the House and it has to come back to this House for approval. At this stage, a political decision has been made and agreed to, but now to move the actual dollars we need the approval of this House. We're following the rules that are set out and we're seeking the approval of this Assembly. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Roland . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm glad to see that the Minister is straightforward enough to admit that this was a political decision, because I was thinking that listening to the Minister's answers. Of course there will be situations where capital projects cannot proceed. We could miss the barge deadline, we could have all sorts of administrative and logistical problems where the construction cannot proceed, but I don't think people out there are happy to see a capital project being moved around for political reasons. Even if the government spends $5,000 over, they have to report to us.

Would the Minister consider changing the rules so that there cannot be under-expenditure or lapsing of money for as much as 2.4 million? Maybe the limit should be $500,000 and if you don't spend it, you lose it. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Minister Roland .

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Further Return To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I think in this arena and on the floor of this House we would be silly to say that decisions made in this House were not political ones. That is the nature of the environment we are in and decisions are made based on departments bringing forward substantiation for it. As for changing the rules to only limit $500,000 for being lapsed or carried over and lapsing the rest, we'd find ourselves in the situation we are today. As the year ended, that money would have lapsed.

We would have to come forward; the departments would have to come forward for substantiation of a new project. In fact, in this particular case, the substantiation will go forward as we go into the next business plan rounds and budget development because it is, again, future years, but the initial planning money is being asked for through the supplementary appropriation document from this House. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Roland . Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think it's absolutely appalling, Madam Speaker, that the Minister would say that for political reasons, not even in this House but on the Cabinet table, that they could move a capital project as big as $2.4 million for political reasons. I'd like to ask the Minister of Finance , as a Finance Minister in charge of numbers, whether he's asked for any information in making his decision about what extra costs would be for the government in moving this program. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Minister Roland .

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Further Return To Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Question 74-15(4): Lapse Of Allocated Funding For GNWT Projects

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 148

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, as any Minister would bring forward, if it is the request, the approval of dollars would come to the FMB table if it is approval seeking direction, other than that it would go to the Cabinet table. In this case this has come to both. The information provided by the Minister requesting this was to proceed with this track and it was granted on the basis of then going forward and getting the approvals of this Assembly through the financial process, and that's what we're into right now. Thank you.

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