Debates of March 30th, 2000

This is page numbers 425 - 456 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Position Reports

Non-renewable Resources Sector

Community Energy Planning

Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Resource Development Infrastructure And Training Opportunities

Consultation On Timber Permits

Regulatory Regime For Resource Development

Community Spirit Demonstrated By Yellowknife Residents

Budget Resources For The North Slave Region

Caribou Carnival Festivities

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Non-renewable Resource Policy

Non-renewable Resource Policy

Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Stakeholder Consultation On Non-renewable Resource Policy Development

Consultation On Timber Permits

Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Incorporation Of An NWT Heritage Trust Fund

Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Rwed's Contradictory Departmental Mandate

Cumulative Impact Of Resource Development

Seniors Housing Programs

Pilot Projects

Interjurisdictional Agreements

Interjurisdictional Agreements And International Contracts

Return To Written Question 12-14(2): Residents Of The Home For The Homeless

Bill 7:

An Act To Amend The Workers' Compensation Act

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Tabled Document 37-14(2): Workers' Compensation Board For The Northwest Territories And Nunavut 2000-2004 Corporate Plan

Tabled Document 38-14(2): Changes In Growth, 1997 To 1999, For Headquarters And Regions

Tabled Document 39-14(2): 2000-2001 Capital Plan Comparison

Tabled Document 40-14(2): 2000 Housing Needs Survey

Bill 8: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1999-2000

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

To Amend Clause 3(2) Of Bill 6: Interim Appropriation Act, 2000-2001 (carried)

To Amend The

Schedule To Bill 6: Interim Appropriation Act, 2000-2001 (carried)

To Delete $75,000 From The Ministers Offices In The Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1999-2000 (carried)

To Delete $85,000 From The Cabinet Secretariat In The Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1999-2000 (carried)

To Amend The

Schedule To Bill 8: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1999-2000 (carried)

Item 20: Report Of The Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

HONOURABLE ROGER ALLEN , MR. BELL , MR. BRADEN , MR. DENT , HONOURABLE JANE GROENEWEGEN , HONOURABLE JOE HANDLEY , HONOURABLE STEPHEN KAKFWI , MR. KRUTKO , MR. LAFFERTY , MS. LEE , MR. MCLEOD , MR. MILTENBERGER , MR. NITAH , HONOURABLE JAKE OOTES , MR. ROLAND , HONOURABLE VINCE STEEN , HONOURABLE TONY WHITFORD .

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-- Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 425

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Good afternoon everyone, bonjour. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister for the Financial Management Board , Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 26-14(2): Position Reports

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 425

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to make a statement on the position reports. Mr. Speaker, last week the Member for Thebacha tabled several summaries showing the change in reported headquarter positions and non-headquarter positions between April 1997 and December 1999.

These position summaries were extracted from two position reports provided by the former and current governments. From this information, the Member suggested that the former government had reduced more positions outside of headquarters than in headquarters itself. We have now had the opportunity to review the comparisons made.

Mr. Speaker, based on the analysis and explanations I have been provided, I do not believe there has been a disproportionate reduction in positions in headquarters versus non-headquarters. There are some corrections that need to be made to the

summary Mr. Miltenberger tabled. There also needs to be adjustments to the two position reports used in the tabled document to allow for meaningful comparisons. But more importantly, it is the

interpretation that must be corrected.

Most of the non-headquarter position changes were not due to cuts or funding reductions, but were due to position transfers, privatization, and other factors. One example is education boards and Aurora College, which control their own position levels and where our position reports show a 134 position decline between 1997 and 1999.

When we examine our formula funding levels to these agencies, we see that we have not reduced the levels of positions we fund since 1997. Clearly, the explanation for these position changes must lie elsewhere than in the funding levels. Mr. Speaker, reviewing all of the corrections and explanations would take too long for this forum. However, I have had a

summary prepared that I will table later today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 26-14(2): Position Reports

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 425

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Non-renewable Resources Sector

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 425

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it has been discussed a number of times during the interim appropriation as well as in previous Assemblies about the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, where right now there is the potential for the Northwest Territories to see a large development occurring. The concern is that we do not have a known non-renewable resource policy as a government.

Mr. Speaker, the opportunities are there. We need to focus and make clear the role that we play as a government in the Northwest Territories when it comes to private sector development. Right now, in the Northwest Territories, between Ottawa, this government, and aboriginal land claim groups, for a private sector outfit to come to the North and try to do some development, they will have a difficult time in finding out all the processes.

For example, I believe within the next day or so, a new act will come into force that will change the map of regulatory reform and the process that is used. Mr. Speaker, as a government, I think we need to focus on making our role in the non-renewable resources sector clearer.

Later, I will be questioning the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in the area of this non-renewable resource sector. What are we going to do as a government to try and make the way clear for not only this government but for other governments, as well as the private sector, so we know where we are standing. If we want development, we will have to be proactive and work with the aboriginal governments as well as Ottawa and the private sector businesses. With that, Mr. Speaker, I will have the questions for the appropriate Minister later. Thank you.

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Non-renewable Resources Sector

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 425

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Community Energy Planning

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 425

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, within the broad framework of the non-renewable resource strategy for the Government of the Northwest Territories, I would like to raise the issue of the need for a territorial energy strategy once again.

As we know, with international conferences, interest tends to peek at the conference, and then drift away. Mr. Speaker, this is not the case with the Kyoto Accord and conference. The issue of greenhouse gases and the need to reduce the emissions of these gases continues to be raised around the world and across the country.

Mr. Speaker, the 1990s was the warmest decade in recorded history. I think we just have to look around our own environment to see that, with the ice road closing in March. To me, that is a very early indication of how important this issue is. The Northwest Territories is a major contributor to the greenhouse gas problem on a per-capita basis. It is a key part of the need for a broad, comprehensive territorial energy strategy.

While I have not talked about it in the past, Mr. Speaker, I would like to touch on this briefly today. That is the role municipalities can play in this strategy. According to the Pembina Institute, municipalities control, either directly or indirectly, more than half of all the emissions released in Canada of greenhouse gases. Direct control comes from municipal buildings and operations, such as the provision of water and waste management. In our case, Mr. Speaker, this is all of our diesel, power plants and the provision of electrical services at the community level.

Mr. Speaker, many communities and municipalities across Canada are already exploring what they can do in this area, through improving building design, shifting to cleaner, renewable energy sources, improving efficiencies in transportation and making good decisions about land use.

Mr. Speaker, many municipalities have joined Partners for Climate Protection, a program sponsored by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities by the International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives. As part of the territorial government's comprehensive energy strategy, they should be encouraging all municipalities to develop community energy plans of their own. The energy strategy should have the municipalities, along with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, as key partners in the design and implementation of the strategy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Community Energy Planning

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 426

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 426

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to reinforce the remarks of Mr. Miltenberger . I was pleased to hear remarks by the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation on Tuesday regarding the national recognition the Northwest Territories Power Corporation has received for reducing greenhouse gas emissions. It is an excellent example of what can be done.

I am particularly interested in how we will be able to expand on this good work. Our own greenhouse gas emissions in the Northwest Territories are about 0.2 percent of Canada's, but on a per-capita basis, we are one of the highest emitters of greenhouse gases in the industrial world.

Today, Mr. Speaker, we have a fine spring day. But a check with the weather office shows that our minimum daily temperatures for this week are about ten degrees above normal.

From 1988 to 1998, Great Slave Lake is breaking up an average of three weeks earlier and freezing later in the year. As well, the late opening of the Mackenzie ice bridge is one of the most evident indicators of what is going on in our environment.

Whatever the cause, we will encounter enormous positive and negative effects in the upcoming decade in our northern environment and way of life. The impact on our economy and how we develop our non-renewable resources in our own interests and for the world is something that we are compelled to pay very close attention to.

Mr. Speaker, on a related issue, the National Roundtable on the Environment and the Economy is an independent agency of the federal government. They are providing decision makers and opinion leaders with reliable information and objective views on the current state of the environment and the economy.

Today, in Yellowknife, the aboriginal communities and non-renewable resource development issue is having a workshop, which is being co-chaired by Cindy Kenny Gilday, well known for her work in the Northwest Territories, especially with the people of Deline. I am pleased to hear they have chosen to meet in Yellowknife. I wish them well in their deliberations.

Mr. Speaker, I believe we have to develop a co-ordinated energy and environmental strategy in conjunction with stakeholders, which recognizes our obligation to the reduction of greenhouse gases. These are complex issues and I intend to seek more information on how our government will be demonstrating leadership. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 426

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Resource Development Infrastructure And Training Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 426

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a government and Legislature, we play a key role in economic development. We play a key role in ensuring that when development happens, we are prepared, we have the people trained and the resources in place to develop the infrastructure needed for development.

Mr. Speaker, in regard to my riding, the Mackenzie Delta, we have the potential of being one of the best oil and gas suppliers, not only to the North American market, but possibly to Asia and other places in the world.

Mr. Speaker, in order for us to do that, we have to ensure we play our

part in getting the returns we should be getting. Specifically, ensuring people are employed and ensuring the resources that come from these developments stay here in the North. We need to develop that industry so it is there for the long-term, not just the short-term.

Mr. Speaker, it is imperative that this government continue to develop the infrastructure in our communities and our regions, especially the college programs we are going to need to ensure our people are qualified in the areas these developments will be demanding, such as engineering, biology, and chemistry.

We have to make sure that those people who are trained are able to expand their knowledge and move up, so they not only work within the industry, but have a say in how the industry is being controlled, managed and developed and sustained here in the North. Also so we can depend on the industry to sustain ourselves.

With that, Mr. Speaker, it is important that we, as a government, reach out to industry and see what they need, by way of developing needed infrastructure. We talk about a highway strategy. We talk about improving the airports. We talk about improving the infrastructure in our communities, but what do we do when a major development is on our doorstep, and we need 30 or 40 houses? Is this government ready to take that on? If we are not, I think we should prepare ourselves for a better scenario, because there may be a time where these developments will take place in the Beaufort Delta. Thank you.

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Resource Development Infrastructure And Training Opportunities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 427

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod .

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Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 427

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise in the House to talk about the definition of consultation. In my office I have a file on timber permits and land use applications relating to logging within the boundaries of the settlement of Enterprise. In this file are letters from the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, its Minister and the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board, stating that adequate consultation on the timber permit took place with the settlement of Enterprise. Also in this file are letters from the settlement of Enterprise stating that no such consultation took place.

Mr. Speaker, as the MLA representing the settlement of Enterprise I have no alternative but to take their concerns seriously and act upon them. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that the department and the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board acted within a narrow definition of the word consultation.

The Forest Management Division of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development referred the timber application to the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board under

Section 125(1)(

b) of the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act citing that they had identified potential public concern over the development.

The settlement of Enterprise was told that the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board would be holding public hearings in September of 1999. In late August, Mr. Speaker, the settlement of Enterprise was informed that a decision had already been made. The settlement had no opportunity to comment directly to the Impact Review Board. The department informed the board of the concerns of the settlement.

I looked in the Hay River Hub and I did find notices from the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board that the matter was referred to them and that they would be visiting the site of the proposed timber cutting. The notices I saw did not call for public submissions on the proposed timber cutting development. The notices did not ask for interested parties that wanted to participate in the site visit. All the notices said was that if you wanted more information, you could phone the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board in Yellowknife. This is consultation? Notices in a newspaper?

Mr. Speaker, the concerns of the settlement of Enterprise, the West Point Dene Band and the Hay River Reserve were dismissed by the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board because it would not be fair or reasonable to delay the development while a timber inventory or policy was developed. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 427

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . The Member for Deh Cho is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. McLeod .

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Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 427

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier and the department are off the hook on this one. The Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board is available as a convenient scapegoat. There is probably little that can be done to stop the timber cutting permit within the settlement of Enterprise. The operator has his permits and the work is underway. I would suggest however, that all parties involved examine what consultation means and how it can be achieved, so that we can avoid this situation in the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 427

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Regulatory Regime For Resource Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 427

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have heard much about the potential that we have in non-renewable resources in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Handley and Mr. Kakfwi have told this House about Mr. Martin and Mr. Chretien also being excited about the potential for the Northwest Territories to become a "have" Territory.

This potential and excitement is something that I share. However, Mr. Speaker, even with the rise in the prices of oil and gas, it is far from certain that the Northwest Territories will achieve that potential. As one mine has found out recently, the environmental and regulatory review process can be a lengthy and complex process which can delay the opening of a new mine.

Mr. Speaker, developers must deal not only with regulatory agencies being set up as a result of self-government, but also with territorial expectations and federal regulatory regimes. The lack of a one-window approach to environmental and developmental regulations in the Northwest Territories presents a significant deterrent to investors.

Mr. Speaker, potential investors may choose to invest elsewhere, where the regulatory demands are more clear or less redundant, in spite of our unmatched potential. I think the ultimate best result, in this situation, Mr. Speaker, is one where Northerners own the resources and share the control and the ownership. I think we will make the right decisions. Mr. Speaker, it is important to protect the environment, but I would argue that a coordinated approach for developers would also allow us to ensure that the environment was better protected.

I urge this government, as part of a non-renewable resource development policy and strategy, to take the lead at working to facilitate a one-window approach. With that, Mr. Speaker, we can ensure that we do achieve our potential in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Regulatory Regime For Resource Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 428

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Community Spirit Demonstrated By Yellowknife Residents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 428

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to speak on a topic a little different from what has been heard here. I have not had a chance to do this, but I want to recognize and show appreciation for the generosity and community spirit shown by the people of Yellowknife following the house fire which resulted in the loss of a great deal for a young family in town.

Mr. Speaker, we are blessed in the North and in Yellowknife to live among friends and neighbours who do not hesitate to come to the aid of people in need. This is only the latest example of a very strong community spirit shown over and over again in Yellowknife.

Another example I can think of, Mr. Speaker, is the efforts by the Literacy Council, which raised $35,000 yesterday through the Peter Gzowski Invitational Golf Tournament.

Mr. Speaker, for the young family, I know that they have gained a lot of strength from the overwhelming support shown by Yellowknife residents, businesses and service clubs. On behalf of all of the Members here, and all Yellowknifers, I would like to especially thank the Elks and Lions Clubs for coming into action, the business of Northwest Transport, as well as all of the other people who have donated goods and cash so that this family can move on from this tragedy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Community Spirit Demonstrated By Yellowknife Residents

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 428

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Budget Resources For The North Slave Region

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 428

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, during the past three months that I have spent as an MLA, I have become very concerned about the lack of recognition for the North Slave region in the budget. Money is allocated for the North Slave region and yet that money ends up being spent on items outside of my area.

For example, Fred Henne Park improvements and Ingraham Trail signs are paid for from the North Slave budget. In the actual North Slave region, which is Rae, Rae Lakes, Wha Ti and Snare Lakes, it seems as though there is no funding for parks or anything of the sort. As well, when money is allocated for highways, my region is grouped in with Fort Smith. Mr. Speaker, as I am sure the Members know, the Dogrib Treaty 11 Council are negotiating the final agreement right now. We will have our own government and land claim area.

I urge the government to recognize this and to reflect the status of the North Slave region in the June budget and future business plans by excluding Yellowknife from the North Slave area. As well, there is no need to include the North Slave in with the Fort Smith region. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Budget Resources For The North Slave Region

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 428

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Caribou Carnival Festivities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 428

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yellowknife's annual winter Caribou Carnival kicks off tomorrow at noon. Our city mayor has declared tomorrow afternoon a civic holiday so residents can come down to the carnival grounds on Frame Lake and enjoy the various events. This year's carnival will boast a number of events, including the 2000 Canadian Dog Derby Contest, set to start tomorrow at noon. Also scheduled to draw considerable attention is the Celebrity Trappers Festival Contest.

Various individuals have been invited to participate in this challenge including heads of corporations, local governments, and Members of this Assembly. As one of the MLAs representing Yellowknife who will be participating in this Celebrity Trappers Festival Contest, I am taking this opportunity to challenge other MLAs from outside Yellowknife in this competition. This special contest includes events such as rat skinning, log throwing, and pancake flipping. Recognizing these events require special skill, I hope my fellow Members from outside our city will prove themselves worthy to such a challenge.

Knowing the compassion of my fellow Yellowknife MLAs, I am sure we can provide a moderate head start so as to not show up other Members of this Assembly willing to take up the challenge.

On Sunday afternoon, the Yellowknife Members will be sponsoring free hotdogs, marshmallows and hot chocolate during a family bonfire scheduled to start at 4:30 p.m. at the carnival grounds. I invite all Members of this Assembly and the public to show their support and community interest and join Yellowknife in the various carnival events which should prove to be an enjoyment for all. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Caribou Carnival Festivities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 428

The Speaker

Thank you, indeed, Mr. Bell . It sounds like a fun time for everyone. Unfortunately, we do sit tomorrow. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Ootes .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 428

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is with a great deal of pleasure that I recognize a very special person in the gallery today. He is a great friend of the North, and one who takes a great deal of time, effort, and diligence to write about the North, to speak about the North, and to spend time among us. He is an individual who contributes a great deal to our northern society. He is the founder of an organization that contributes greatly to our literacy here in the Northwest Territories.

It is a great pleasure for me to welcome Mr. Peter Gzowski to the Assembly, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 429

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Ootes . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 429

Jane Gronewegen

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity today, because I do not know if I will get a chance tomorrow, to recognize Ms. Pat Thomas, who is the president of the Northwest Territories Teachers Association. Some of you may not know that Pat will be retiring from this position soon, and she has been a very faithful attendee in our visitors' gallery. We will certainly miss her when she is gone. Thank you.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 429

The Speaker

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 429

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize a resident from the Deh Cho, Mr. Julian Andrew from Kakisa, the owner and operator of Kakisa Contracting, band councillor and also the chair of the Deh Cho Health Board.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 429

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 429

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since Ms. Pat Thomas may not be with us, as she is retiring, I think we should preserve that seat that she has been sitting in for the last seven years, and put a statue of Ms. Thomas there.

-- Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 429

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . We will see if we can get a picture of her and place it in that. Welcome to the Legislative Assembly, all of the visitors, Mr. Gzowski, and Ms. Thomas. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake , Mr. Roland .

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Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 429

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, non-renewable resources provide the greatest opportunities to create new jobs and increased business opportunities, a stronger small business sector, a larger economic base, increased own-source revenues and increased economic self-sufficiency.

By taking advantage of these opportunities, we do not have to sacrifice the environment, our cultures or traditional lifestyles. Through responsible resource development, using modern technologies, effective regulatory mechanisms, and impact and benefit agreements with communities and aboriginal organizations, mineral development will provide a significant net benefit to the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister where is the government's policy on non-renewable resource development? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 429

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The question is directed to the Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 429

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Government of the Northwest Territories has no jurisdiction in the non-renewable resource sector. It is still under the control and management of the federal government. To that extent, we have no legal means by which to enforce or impose policies. It has not been the practice of the past governments to develop policies where they have virtually no jurisdiction. Thank you.

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Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 429

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 429

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the statements I made earlier were originally made, word for word, by the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in the committee of the whole on May 14, 1996. Can the Minister summarize for me, I guess there has not been any progress, but has there been any work in trying to develop what we have under our authority in the Northwest Territories, under a non-renewable resource development policy. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 429

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 429

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, I think we have made some progress. The federal Minister, Mr. Robert Nault was here recently, publicly committing to moving the devolution file as expediently as possible, as well as the commitment to negotiate an agreement on revenue-sharing as expediently as possible. That is a commitment that we have long awaited. We are working now to set up an intergovernmental forum with the aboriginal governments, this government and the federal government as early as May so we can set an agenda that hopefully will include devolution and revenue-sharing, amongst other things.

We have developed an initiative that is near completion. It is an economic strategy for the Northwest Territories that is being drafted as we speak. This economic strategy will be released in the next month or so. It will speak to the things that we must consider, and that we have to take into account in moving our economic development along. We have been working for a number of years now, courting the interests of the oil and gas companies in the North. Not having jurisdiction in the area, but suggesting that there is merit in looking at renewing exploration activities in the Beaufort and Mackenzie Delta, the Sahtu and the Deh Cho.

We know full well that the aboriginal groups have been imposing a moratorium on oil and gas development in most of the Mackenzie Valley for the last 20 years. In spite of that, we have seen renewed activities in the Mackenzie Valley. We have helped to encourage the federal government to respect that and release lands for oil and gas companies to bid on. We have worked on the development of a policy on developing value-added industry with diamonds in the Northwest Territories.

So there has been some work done. We developed the Protected Areas Strategy, over a year ago, that speaks to setting aside and recognizing the lands and areas that aboriginal people in communities here in the North want to protect. These have been outlined, and are going to be implemented before major development starts to proceed here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister, in his address to the committee of the whole, emphasized the importance of reaching impact and benefit agreements with communities and aboriginal organizations. Further, there are regions that are still in land negotiations, but yet the government continues to issue permits in certain areas, sometimes against the wishes of those communities.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister tell me how many impact and benefit agreements have been signed between this government, communities and aboriginal organizations? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the Member is talking about the most recent process engaged in by aboriginal groups and this government then he would be referring to the application of Diavik, to begin construction of the mine. If that is what the Member is talking about, I believe some of the benefit agreements, I think there are two of them, have been signed off to date, with two or three yet to go. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Final supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The question was how many agreements overall has this government signed between aboriginal governments, this government, and other land claim organizations. How many have we done in total?

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Supplementary To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member wants some details that I am unable to provide at this time, so I will provide the details to the Member in writing. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Question 160-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Nitah .

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Question 161-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

Steven Nitah

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On many occasions, Mr. Speaker, this government and previous governments have recognized the importance of the non-renewable resource sector, which includes gold, base metals, diamonds and oil and gas. This sector, Mr. Speaker, represents a significant component of our economic portfolio. It also represents real opportunities for increased royalty and tax revenues. The potential for further development in non-renewable resources is enormous, Mr. Speaker.

Can the Minister explain to me why there is not a specific policy in place to address non-renewable resource development other than its brief mention in the Sustainable Development Policy? Even if we do not have the jurisdiction, Mr. Speaker, this government and the people of the North want that jurisdiction. We should have something in place so that if we do get it we will know exactly what it will look like. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 161-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Nitah . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 161-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The federal government, along with the Government of the Northwest Territories and aboriginal governments, I hope, will agree very shortly on an agenda that will be advanced through the intergovernmental forum. In the intergovernmental forum, I believe, work will be undertaken under the direction of the three governments for officials to start looking at the implications of devolution, revenue-sharing, and the benefits those bring.

We look towards that forum to initiate the work necessary, and the agreement and understanding necessary so that, as a government, we may begin, without prejudicing claims negotiations and self-government agreements, the idea of developing policies that will govern our approach to non-renewable resource development in the future, once devolution is completed. Thank you.

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Question 161-14(2): Non-renewable Resource Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

The Speaker

Thank you, Minister Kakfwi . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 430

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development as well. Mr. Speaker, as I said in my statement, the Northwest Territories is one of Canada's wealthiest jurisdictions in terms of mineral potential. Unfortunately, access to these mineral reserves is hampered, not only by a lack of transportation infrastructure, but also by the numerous regulatory regimes.

Mr. Speaker, can the Minister confirm that the overlapping regulatory regimes in the Northwest Territories currently present a deterrent to non-renewable resource development?

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Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The regulatory regime in the Northwest Territories has largely been designed by the federal government. It is our duty as citizens to make the best of the regulatory regimes that we have available to us in order to regulate development, and development applications. It is our wish that our regulatory regimes in the future come under territorial jurisdiction as much as possible. We need to advance this in partnership with the aboriginal governments.

It is my view that we can achieve this and work towards a regulatory regime that would be simple, efficient, yet tough enough to assure everyone that the rules are clear and the costs for development in the North are clear, and upfront. This will be done in the future, in partnership with aboriginal governments, the federal government, and industry. Thank you.

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Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Minister is absolutely right when he says that we need to work to move the ownership and control to the North, and I am encouraged by the continuation of that process. That could take some time, Mr. Speaker.

In the meantime, knowing that we have these overlapping jurisdictions, could the Minister describe for me what initiatives his department has taken, or is prepared to take, to try and bring some coordination to the approach, so the developers get a better understanding of what the hoops are, the different steps are, that they have to go through. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Knowing the concern that the MLAs have expressed recently about this government taking on new initiatives, adding additional staff in Yellowknife, so as to take on additional work and responsibilities, I have no inclination whatsoever to take on work that we do not necessarily have to do, that would have no achievable short-term returns.

The intent of this government is to develop a relationship and rapport with the federal government so we can advance our agenda. Our agenda is to work with the aboriginal governments and the federal government to reach agreement on devolution within a fixed timeframe, as soon as possible over the next few years.

On the item of revenue-sharing, we have to take a positive position in support of the pipeline proposal. The Inuvialuit, the Metis, the Dene have unanimously proposed to build a pipeline down the Mackenzie Valley. This Legislature has unanimously voted to support that proposal. Those are the things that we want to get done.

Expending resources and energy trying to explain a present regulatory regime and its alleged overlapping boundaries is not something I see a significant return on in the short term. At this time, there are no resources available to me to work on that, but I appreciate the suggestion. Thank you.

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Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

The Speaker

Thank you, Premier Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not think you will find any argument from Members of this House that this government needs to work very closely with federal government and the aboriginal governments in order to achieve a consensus on moving control and ownership of resources to the North.

But I think this government needs to take some positive action in terms of developing a policy we can look to in the long term. I do not think that because some Members have been critical of government action in certain areas that there is no support for the government to take action in other areas where we see the long-term potential being great. I think this is one of those areas.

Mr. Speaker, I do not think this government should wait for the inter-governmental forum to start developing a policy for non-renewable resources. I would like to ask the Minister if he would commit to undertaking that sort of policy development, some initial work so we are prepared in the future to take over the ownership as Northerners? I do not mean this government taking over, but for our

part in the ownership and control of those resources.

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Supplementary To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Dent . I would just like to remind Members that when they get into the supplementaries, they should get directly to the question. The question is directed to the Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 431

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is necessary for me to know if this suggestion is coming from all Members or just from Mr. Dent . I would certainly appreciate knowing the broad support with which this suggestion is being made. In fact, if there is unanimous support for Mr. Dent to suggest this initiative, then perhaps a motion from the Members to direct us to look at this would be the proper way to go. Thank you.

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Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Final supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would hope the government would hear my questions, my comments and those of others and take the leadership position that is necessary.

The Minister had asked about motions. In this House, we had a motion that he talked about, which was a motion of support for the Mackenzie Valley pipeline. I would like to point out, Mr. Minister, that motion was not unanimously approved. There were abstentions in this House, but there were no abstentions on this side of the House.

-- Interjection

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Supplementary To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

The Speaker

Order. Order, please. Mr. Dent , would you get right to the question please? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In light of that motion, in light of the comments of Members in this House, will the government take the lead in starting some work to develop a non-renewable resource policy? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Dent . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government has made a commitment to work with all Members of this House as closely as possible. We would not initiate and take on new work until after we have finalized the agenda and priorities of this Legislature.

We have looked for support for the agenda and the way in which we have been advancing the parameters of the direction in the ten weeks we have been in office. It is our hope that if we are going to unilaterally start developing a policy to govern us on how we approach non-renewable resources, we should take the time to discuss this with the aboriginal governments.

We have, as I have said, no jurisdiction in the non-renewable resource sector. It is only because the aboriginal leaders have said they want to own and manage a pipeline that this government has had the confidence to move a motion in support of it.

The policy on how we will develop our oil and gas and other minerals requires the express consent and support from as many of the aboriginal governments and their leaders as possible. I look forward to making sure that it is clear exactly what it is that Mr. Dent is suggesting to us. We will look for the support that we will require in the inter-governmental forum, which I hope meets as early as the beginning of May, to give us the assurance and the confidence we need to perceive in the direction he is suggesting. Thank you.

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Question 162-14(2): Resource Development Regulatory Regime

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

The Speaker

Thank you, Premier Kakfwi. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Lafferty .

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Question 163-14(2): Stakeholder Consultation On Non-renewable Resource Policy Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

Leon Lafferty

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This question is for the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development . As a government, we have been talking about the need to raise territorial dollars through getting control of our northern resources and by opening the door to non-renewable resource development. Examples of this include encouraging oil and gas development and diamond mining.

While a growing interest in non-renewable resources development, we have also talked about the need to develop a policy around this issue. Recently, the government established an Inter-governmental Forum Secretariat. This office is meant to provide a base for the Government of the Northwest Territories, Canada, and aboriginal groups to reach agreement on issues of common concern, in this case, a non-renewable resources policy.

Further input by aboriginal groups, regions, communities, mining interests, environmental groups, and other residents is necessary to complete the stake-holder consultation process. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister assure me that any development of a non-renewable resource policy will involve and integrate not only land claim concerns, but also the general perspective of all stake holders? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 163-14(2): Stakeholder Consultation On Non-renewable Resource Policy Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 163-14(2): Stakeholder Consultation On Non-renewable Resource Policy Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 432

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Member for the question. It is the intent of this government to consult the public as much as possible in the pursuit of the agenda, to assume control and management of northern resources in partnership with aboriginal governments.

Because we are a public government responsible to the public, we have an obligation to do that. We have a keen interest in making sure the development in the non-renewable sector provides a maximum benefit to our communities and our aboriginal people.

We have, in the absence of a policy, been working in partnership for a number of years now with aboriginal governments, aboriginal companies, and northern companies to take advantage of the development of resources, such as diamond mines. More recently in the Deh Cho and the Sahtu area with oil and gas exploration.

We have worked together with industry, with the federal government to develop monitoring programs. We have negotiated impact benefit agreements. We have set up partnerships through businesses, taking industry dollars along with federal and territorial dollars to set up joint initiatives like the West Kitikmeot Slave study, community mobilization, and working on the agreements like a socio-economical agreement that was concluded with BHP. We have set up advisory boards.

There are a number of tools and instruments that have already been created because we have engaged aboriginal governments, aboriginal companies, along with industry in a partnership approach to non-renewable resource development on a project-by-project basis. Much work has already been done.

In this area, we still recognize that the Dogribs have yet to complete their land claim and self-government negotiations. We are working to support that and expedite that as best we can. The Akaitcho and Yellowknives, the Metis, The South Slave Tribal Council are also pursuing recognition and implementation of their rights agreements. We need to take those into account as we proceed in our work. Thank you.

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Question 163-14(2): Stakeholder Consultation On Non-renewable Resource Policy Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Premier Kakfwi. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. McLeod .

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Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My comments are to the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development . On many occasions, Mr. Speaker, the government has granted land use permits, including timber-cutting permits, without adequate consultation with the local communities and stakeholders.

For example, recently in the settlement of Enterprise, the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development identified areas in their timber application that may be of concern to the public. These concerns were listed in the application to the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review board as required. The board in turn informed the community of Enterprise that it would hold public hearings on the matter in September of 1999. But in August of 1999, the community was informed that the decision had already been made. As a result, the community did not have a chance to have their concerns heard.

Mr. Speaker, we need to make sure the views and concerns of the residents of the Northwest Territories are incorporated in the decision-making process that may affect their well-being. For Enterprise to be left out of the decision making process that deals directly with their community is unforgivable.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister where is the accountability that this government is so proud of? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If they were not properly consulted, then we should apologize to the community of Enterprise.

On the point of accountability, I have offered to present myself to the community of Enterprise and provide full accountability. We will do that in the next couple of weeks. Thank you.

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Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Consultation with the stakeholders has to be a required component of the final approval process for significant government initiatives.

There have been occasions where the government has granted land-use permits in areas where the negotiation process is still going on. Mr. Speaker, how do the government's development policies ensure that the interest of other stakeholders, especially communities and aboriginal groups, are respected and protected? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In some cases, there are existing businesses which have been set-up and established, expecting to get annual allocations of timber in order for their businesses to continue. We have always respected that. We have worked as best we can with communities to try to develop management plans so that annual allocations that are sustainable could be identified, so we can manage those resources the best we can.

In some instances, because licenses have been issued and in existence for a number of years, and it is our duty as governments to respect that. In fact, there are existing licenses out there that compel us to move in a way that complies with the needs those licenses create. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Minister Kakfwi . Supplementary, Mr. McLeod .

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Supplementary To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development tell me how much time is usually given for communities, aboriginal groups, and other stakeholders to consider initiatives brought forth by his department? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. McLeod . The honourable Minister, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 433

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know exactly the number of days that are set out as legal obligations. It is my view that our resources in the North, renewable or non-renewable, require a plan on the part of people in the communities and regions. If there is a plan, we do not have to consult continuously on things that go on from year to year. We need to have a management plan in place, so that people can be reassured that they know exactly what goes on in their areas, in their communities, from year to year without any surprises.

In the absence of a plan, it becomes difficult for governments to operate and assure people that resources and development are being managed in a clear, consistent way. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Question 164-14(2): Consultation On Timber Permits

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

The Speaker

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today, also goes to the Minister responsible for Resources Wildlife and Economic Development . Mr. Speaker, I think that when we look at our economic picture and our potential for economic development, it is so frustrating that we do not have control over all leverages that are necessary to build our economy. I refer specifically to the mineral resource potential in the Great Slave area.

I would think that in any other jurisdiction, like Alberta, for example, where one is looking at economic potential that we are looking at in diamond mines, with billions of dollars of revenue potential, we should be able to find some money in government, to put towards social and economic infrastructure, such as setting up a training program or building the roads, or even building the bridge in this global warming condition that we are facing, and yet we have a very lopsided economic picture in the North.

We have no money to put this infrastructure in place. The companies are willing to come and invest and extract the resources and the money goes to the federal government. I think this lopsided picture is very clear. My question is, I do know that the Premier has engaged in explaining this situation to the federal government, and I would like to confirm if this is the kind of discussion he had with the Minister, and what his future plans are in making it more clear to them and meeting with them again and about coming up with a focused training program or world project program or some kind of program that links to the economic potential that we have here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

The Finance Minister , Paul Martin, was also, putting it mildly, captivated by the vision we spoke of in our first meeting with him. Mr. Nault is dealing with us in the same way, very eager to move on discussions on devolution and revenue sharing, setting up the inter-governmental forum, trying to move the northern agenda along. Do something real, is the language that he uses.

We have arranged a meeting with the Prime Minister for next week. There is a commitment to meet on Tuesday, so we will have the opportunity to elaborate formally for the first time with the Prime Minister, what exactly it is that we seek, and what it is that we need in terms of support from the federal government in order to make this vision, this dream, a reality in very short order. Thank you.

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Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if I could ask a very specific question that I would like the Minister to tell Minister Martin. The latest figure I have seen in terms of the mineral development potential with the three diamond mines is about $15 billion. I may be wrong on that and I realize that not all that money is going to go to the federal government, and surely we know that hardly any of that comes to the Territorial government directly, but the potential seems huge.

Highway No. 3 will cost $60 million to be reconstructed, and when you look at the big scheme of things, that is not such a big amount of money and yet, that is all of the capital budget we have in the interim budget this year that we have just passed.

I guess what I am saying is, $60 million is 100 percent of the capital budget that we are going to approve in the interim and yet, that is so minuscule in comparison to the billions that are to be made in the diamond mines. I wonder if the Minister would go to the Minister responsible for Finance and say, "give us $60 million, because you are going to make $100 billion or something from the diamond mines." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 434

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the first time in the history of Canada, we have suggested to the Prime Minister, Mr. Martin and Mr. Nault, that we will have a territory that can contribute more to Canada in terms of revenue and raising of taxes through resource development than it actually gets from Canada. We will become, with the development of the diamond mines and a natural gas pipeline, the first "have" territory in the history of Canada.

The returns to Canada for what we see as short-term investment preparing us for pipeline construction through training, through infrastructure investment, through a range of other short-term dollar investments, the returns will be significant. I think this is what captures the interest of the federal government, certainly, the Prime Minister.

Many years ago, he came to the North as Minister of Northern Affairs and served in the portfolio for six years. He saw that many of our aboriginal people needed to establish offices, to set up programs of community development, to work on our education levels and create an opportunity for us to settle our claims, by setting up the comprehensive claims process and to create opportunities to negotiate self-government agreements.

These were all done with a view that in the future, aboriginal people will have the confidence, the resources and the means by which to initiate partnerships and projects that would place them as significant players and beneficiaries of resource development here in the Northwest Territories. Our Prime Minister sees that and wants to reap the benefits of the initial work he did, which started back in the early 70s. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that we have the federal Ministers now paying attention to us, but when he is in a meeting with these Ministers, will the Premier tell him that we have this great mineral potential north of our capital, but this place is connected by a country road that has two different speed limits for the small cars and big trucks. We have trucking companies, we have transportation that lays down tonnes of mud to keep the road even and then the trucking companies have to come and wash it all off here. We have the road but it is not ready for this kind of development.

Will the Minister please tell them, if we are going to see the kind of potential that is possible, we need $60 million to build that road.

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Supplementary To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

The Speaker

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Member for the comment and question. It is my view that the important thing is to elaborate on the vision that we have as a government, as a northern people, as aboriginal people. Once we have captured the attention and developed a partnership with the federal government and aboriginal governments, then we can start developing the specific picture that the vision encompasses.

There would be perhaps a natural gas pipeline, a highway, equity in diamond mines, massive training programs, numerous business opportunities that would place aboriginal people, not on a margin but in a central significant portion of a northern economy in the very near future. I think once we have an agreement, when we see something that both governments appreciate and support, then we will start to work on the different parts of this vision that need to be supported, and how we will engage together to make this vision become a reality. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Question 165-14(2): Transportation Infrastructure In The Slave Geological Region

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

The Speaker

Thank you, Minister Kakfwi . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bell .

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Question 166-14(2): Incorporation Of An NWT Heritage Trust Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is clear to us that we need a non-renewable resource policy. As we strive to get greater control of our tax and royalty revenues from extraction of our non-renewable resources, I am worried about fluctuating commodity prices. One suggestion is to set up a heritage trust for these revenues to ensure our programs and services are not way out in front of our revenues. Would the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development consider approaching the federal government to discuss setting up such a heritage trust? Thank you.

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Question 166-14(2): Incorporation Of An NWT Heritage Trust Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Bell . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 166-14(2): Incorporation Of An Nwt Heritage Trust Fund

Question 166-14(2): Incorporation Of An NWT Heritage Trust Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We know that as we reap the benefits of resource development, it is possible that we may not diversify and establish a diversified economy as quickly as we would like. We need to assure ourselves and the people that we serve that during lean times, during difficult times, there will be enough cushion or resources set aside to carry us through those times. The suggestion the Member makes is a very necessary one and one that we must look at. We certainly will do that as we initiate our work. Thank you.

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Return To Question 166-14(2): Incorporation Of An Nwt Heritage Trust Fund

Question 166-14(2): Incorporation Of An NWT Heritage Trust Fund

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Thebacha , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are also addressed to the Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development and in regard to the need for a non-renewable resource policy. Specifically I will ask some questions relating to the environmental component of that policy.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister has indicated that while there is not a broad framework, the government has a number of separate components where they are trying to address the very many initiatives that are underway with diamond mines, oil and gas, timber permits and such. Very clearly, we need to bring those under a broad umbrella framework. We need to protect the environment, so we do not have another Pine Point or another Giant Mine. We have to be ready for when we take over these responsibilities.

My question to the Minister is, in the meantime, with the very many significant major developments underway on the horizon, how does he intend to ensure that the environment is protected for all Northerners? Thank you.

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Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 435

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The federal government has recently given an indication that the environment, increasingly, is starting to take on very high priority. There is a federal commitment, as a partner in protocol, to carry out an agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. This is a very significant commitment. We also know that the Minister responsible for the Environment, Mr.

Anderson, in the last year, has come to the North specifically to look at sites like Giant Mine with a very strong interest in looking at how the federal government might be able to do a proper assessment of the extent of the environmental issue that revolves around areas like Giant Mine, and perhaps other abandoned mine sites with a view of assessing them and working towards addressing these specific sites.

We know that, as a government, we continue to take a view that development of mines, oil and gas, any type of resource development projects must assure the people of the North and this government that the environment and wildlife will be protected to the maximum extent possible. The processes that are initiated when projects like this are developed, assure us, and we always participate to the fullest extent possible. We did that with BHP. We did that with Diavik and we will continue to do that on a project-by-project basis. Thank you.

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Return To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recognize that we have been responding on a project-by-project basis. The supplementary to the Minister is are there plans to somehow come up with a broad approach so there is certainty that there is consistency, so that when you go from project to project, it is clear. Regulatory reform and a cumbersome regulations regime puts people off; it puts business off. The same with environmental protection. Can the Minister indicate whether there are any plans to lay out a standard policy that people can see, that people can have input into and that will be a driver for this government that they can be held accountable for? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is the intent of this government and I believe, aboriginal governments, once we engage in inter-governmental forum, to set as an agenda item the requirement that we set up policies that would govern how as governments, we will approach resource development, renewable and non-renewable in the future. We will do this in partnership and it will be initiated, I believe, through discussion and partnership with aboriginal governments.

It will be done and it will be done as soon as we begin to convene our meetings and agree on the agenda. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has spoken to the future. Could he also speak to the here and now and indicate what the plans are? Or are there any different plans by the central public government to deal with all the resource development that is currently on our plate that is in our face, that is happening all around us. The future is good, but we live here, today. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is no future for this government if we act unilaterally, and we try to act alone and presume to have jurisdiction where we have none. The future we have, and I thought that we agreed to, was that the future is working in partnership with aboriginal governments to make sure we have a common agenda and a common approach to that agenda. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, nobody disputes the need to work closely with the aboriginal governments and all the other stakeholders. Can the Minister confirm then, that until all this bright new future is realized, that it is the intention of the government to respond on a piece-meal, case by case basis to major economic development and resource development? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would not put it in those less than flattering terms. The Member should be more complimentary and look at the results that a co-operative, consultative approach has achieved, for instance, on the BHP project and so forth on the Diavik project. By working in partnership with aboriginal government, by working with industry, although it is on a case by case basis, the results are significant. We have achieved benefits. We have achieved results that speak well to the approach that we have taken. Just because there is no articulated, written-down, established policy, does not mean that we are incoherent and inconsistent and without an overall approach.

If anything, the results should indicate that we have a well-thought out approach, albeit with a lot of different instruments and partners in the approach that we take. Nonetheless, the results are significant. I think that this is why the federal government and aboriginal governments are prepared to partner with us on more projects and with agreements on controlling management of Northern resources as well as sharing of the benefits of non-renewable resources through the revenue sharing agreement. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Question 167-14(2): Resource Development Environmental Concerns

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 436

The Speaker

Thank you, Premier Kakfwi. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 168-14(2): Rwed's Contradictory Departmental Mandate

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development . Mr. Speaker, Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development is responsible for environmental protection and for resource management and economic development. At times, there is no doubt there are some very interesting and constructive dynamics within the department as they are compelled to balance views and principles between these two mandates.

No doubt there is also a continuous tug of war for resources of money and staff within the department depending on the issue of the day between those with a mandate to protect and those with a mandate to promote. My question, Mr. Speaker, how does the department balance these sometimes contradictory mandates? Thank you.

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Question 168-14(2): Rwed's Contradictory Departmental Mandate

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, the Honourable Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 168-14(2): Rwed's Contradictory Departmental Mandate

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 437

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would say on the head of a pin. This is my first attempt to be funny in two weeks.

---- Laughter

Mr. Speaker, whether we have three departments all dealing with separate and different mandates, in the end it needs to come together. We need to balance the environment with our need for economic development. We need to take wildlife, land, water, air issues and balance them with our need to support job creation through diamond mines, and oil and gas development. We had an exte