Debates of Feb. 8th, 2006

This is page numbers 843 - 884 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was communities .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Gwich'in Self-government Negotiations Update

The Work Of The Electoral Boundaries Commission

Mental Illness Services In The Northwest Territories

Post-secondary Education Challenges In The Northwest Territories

Safety Of GNWT Workers

High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Safety Of GNWT Workers

High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Administration Of Income Security Programs

Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Bill 20:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Committee Motion 18-15(4) To Defer Consideration Of The Departmental

Summary For The NWT Housing Corporation

Committee Motion 19-15(4) Recommendation To The Municipal And Community Affairs Remedy Access To Land Issues

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Paul Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. McLeod, Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 843

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good morning, Members. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Minister's Statement 67-15(4): Gwich'in Self-government Negotiations Update

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 843

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Gwich'in Tribal Council recently advised the other parties that it no longer views the Gwich'in and Inuvialuit Self-Government Agreement-in-Principle as the foundation for negotiations towards a final agreement in the Beaufort-Delta. Instead, they would like to pursue a stand-alone Gwich'in self-government agreement.

Mr. Speaker, these negotiations began in 1993 when the Gwich'in Tribal Council and the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation put forward a model for a Beaufort-Delta regional self-government. Later in 1993, the leaders of the Inuvialuit and Gwich'in, along with the eight Beaufort-Delta communities, passed a unanimous motion to support the public model proposal in principle. The core of this model was the creation of a regional public government, which would represent and serve all residents of the Beaufort-Delta.

In February 1994, the Gwich'in Tribal Council and the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation met with Canada and the GNWT. They proposed that regional public government model form the basis for negotiating a joint self-government agreement for the Gwich'in and Inuvialuit in the Beaufort-Delta.

Canada and the GNWT accepted the proposal. The federal inherent rights policy, later released in 1995, was consistent with this. The policy states a preference for implementing self-government primarily, though not exclusively, through public government in the NWT. Negotiations using the model proposed by the Gwich'in and Inuvialuit began in 1996, and in 2003, all parties signed an agreement-in-principle.

Mr. Speaker, over the past 10 years, the Gwich'in, Inuvialuit, Canada and the GNWT have all invested a substantial amount of time, resources and money on self-government negotiations. An AIP is the last step before a final agreement can be reached. The new direction proposed by the Gwich'in is a very significant departure from the government's model we have negotiated.

While the GNWT has always respected the right of aboriginal people to pursue self-government through a public or an aboriginal model, it has been our preference to pursue these negotiations through a public government model because it best serves communities with mixed populations. However, at the end of the day, we recognize that self-government agreements must be practical, broadly supported and capable of being implemented.

While the GNWT reviews the AIP as a practical way to fairly implement the inherent rights of the Gwich'in and Inuvialuit, we fully respect the right of any party to rethink or change the preferred approach to self-government. The Gwich'in Tribal Council has made such a decision and we respect that decision.

The GNWT is in the process of reviewing the implications of the Gwich'in's proposal and in the near future will formally respond to the Gwich'in Tribal Council. Over the coming months, I will be talking with my counterparts in the federal government, the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation and the Gwich'in Tribal Council. These discussions will focus on potential next steps towards negotiating and concluding self-government agreements in the Beaufort-Delta.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT's vision of a strong northern voice and identity depends on the successful negotiation and implementation of aboriginal land, resource and self-government agreements in all regions. We are committed to finding a resolution that will allow us to move forward with the Gwich'in and the Inuvialuit. Thank you. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 67-15(4): Gwich'in Self-government Negotiations Update

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 843

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley . Ministers' statements. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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The Work Of The Electoral Boundaries Commission

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 843

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. A very important commission to the work of this Assembly has recently started travels and hearings, Mr. Speaker, into the electoral boundaries that are set for, at least at this point, the 19 ridings that make up this Assembly. The commission gave MLAs and members of the public in Yellowknife an opportunity to speak earlier this week. I wanted to take this opportunity in my statement to just do a pr‚cis of a couple of points that I made to the commission.

Mr. Speaker, the first is consideration of whether or not more ridings or more Members are needed to do the job of not only representing the people of the Northwest Territories, but also to achieve the work of the Assembly. With our ministerial style of government, I think we have a

lot of work in front of us at any one time. With a seven-Member Executive Council and 11 Members on this side, we're hard pressed sometimes to look after everything and do a good job of it. I think that right now, Mr. Speaker, one of the things that we should look at is we are in the process, through devolution and resource revenue sharing and self-government, of really fundamentally changing the nature of this Legislative Assembly over time. I think that for that reason, we should not either decrease or enlarge the size of the Assembly.

The other factor, Mr. Speaker, that comes into play is that by the numbers, four of our ridings are outside of a reasonable range of variance to a Canadian convention that 25 percent should be the threshold; 25 percent over and under-representation. I asked the commission to look at that aspect and see what adjustments could be realistically proposed in those ridings to see if we can achieve that representation by population balance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Work Of The Electoral Boundaries Commission

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 844

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Mental Illness Services In The Northwest Territories

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 844

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this week is NWT Mental Health Week. The health of the mind, like the health of the body, is taken for granted until something goes wrong. Mr. Speaker, we all have some experience with stress in our lives. There can be enormous pressures to meet the obligations of the workplace and balance work with the demands of family life and other obligations. Fortunately, most of us are able to manage these pressures and maintain a balanced state of mind by making healthy choices about how to deal with life's challenges. Not everyone is so fortunate, Mr. Speaker.

Approximately 20 percent of Canadians will personally experience a serious mental illness during their lifetime. Indirectly, mental illness affects all Canadians through illness in family members, friends and colleagues. Mental illness is brought on by a very complex interplay of genetic, biological, personality and environmental factors. It does not discriminate. Mental illness can affect people of all ages, education, income levels and cultures.

Mr. Speaker, 36 percent of all hospitalizations in the Northwest Territories are for mental health illnesses and they are related to alcohol and drug abuse. This is followed by depression, the second most common reason, that being at 30 percent.

In 2003, five percent of NWT residents age 12 and older reported a major depressive episode. In other words, Mr. Speaker, approximately 1,600 NWT residents over the age of 12 suffered from clinical depression. Statistics indicate that there is no significant difference in the prevalence of depression between communities. However, smaller communities have more limited access to programs and services than does our capital.

Mr. Speaker, Hay River residents, for example, have limited access to prevention and treatment services. The Department of Health and Social Services released the report on NWT integrated service delivery model in 2004. In it, they identified challenges to the current service delivery for mental health and addictions services. To meet these challenges, the department initiated a strategy to roll out 77 new mental health and addictions workers throughout the NWT communities over a three-year period. Mr. Speaker, I hope to see the situation improve as the strategy is implemented.

According to experts on mental illness in Canada, they characterize mental illness as the last taboo. Mr. Speaker, the stigma attached to mental illness presents serious barriers to diagnoses and treatment. I will leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Mental Illness Services In The Northwest Territories

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 844

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Post-secondary Education Challenges In The Northwest Territories

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 844

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, when I talk to the youth throughout the North and ask them what comes to mind when I say post-secondary education, the replies are first excitement and then they recall not being able to afford expenses on a monthly basis.

Post-secondary education is very important for the healthy development, not only to Nahendeh, but throughout the Northwest Territories. An elder once told me the greatest gift you can give our youth is a good education, and this is the fundamental principle I use as an MLA.

A northern student, especially a first-year student, experiences many overwhelming challenges emotionally, financially and educationally. To further compound the transition to post-secondary education, our students face additional challenges most southern students take for granted like being alone, receiving consistent funding, et cetera. A recent publication regarding the composition of various boards and committees illustrate a very disconcerting trend; the Student Financial Assistance Appeal Board has all Yellowknife representation and none from the communities. For a government that prides themselves on being a government of the people, examples such as these seem to be contradictory.

These concerns are not isolated as many students throughout the North have experienced difficulties while dealing with the regional student assistance office. Many students cannot afford to cover the costs of education on their own and cannot retain loans or financial assistance other than the assistance offered by the Government of the Northwest Territories. This leaves the students with what is often described as one-chance policies, closing very important doors very early in a youth's education.

This government must recognize our educated youth and adults as the key to a successful future and must be proactive and creative with student financial assistance policies. A shortage of a skilled and educated workforce will only get worse and we must be prepared. This government must be prepared to be flexible when dealing with our students. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Post-secondary Education Challenges In The Northwest Territories

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 845

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 845

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, working for the GNWT is filled with many surprises, but I think showing up at work one day only to be told that the building you are working in is at risk of structural collapse and that you need to pack up your files immediately and get out, is beyond what any employee should expect or consider reasonable.

That's exactly, Mr. Speaker, the situation that 57 Inuvik employees who, until yesterday were working in the Perry Building, find themselves in. Employees should not have to worry about their building falling down around them.

Recent events in Inuvik have brought the safety of GNWT workers and the public into question. First we had to close down Samuel Hearne School because the foyer collapsed. Then before the school year even started, we had to close it again because of the fear of the building collapsing. Now the parents of some of the students who have been forced out of their school are now being forced out and abandoned from their workplace because of the danger of a collapsing building. When is it going to stop, Mr. Speaker?

I find it very ironic that just last August, during our pre-budget consultation, a resident in Inuvik brought up the poor state of the GNWT's buildings. She said to us, just walk around. Do they make you feel proud? Well, Mr. Speaker, they certainly don't make me feel very proud. I will have questions for the Minister of Public Works at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 845

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 845

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak today, once again, about the high cost of doing business for small businesses and more specifically about the skyrocketing WCB premiums for franchise businesses in the city.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud of the fact that my riding of Range Lake is the home of the only Tim Horton's in the NWT.

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High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 845

Some Hon. Members

Yeah!

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High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 845

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

It is also the home of Pizza Hut, Quiznos, Subway, Domino's Pizza and, of course, we have the good old KFC and A&W downtown. Mr. Speaker, these and other eateries, pubs and restaurants are an essential part of our city life. Mr. Speaker, what has been happening is they have been suffering under the burdens of all kinds of increases, taxes, garbage collection fees, cost of fuel and, in particular, the WCB premium rates have been going up for the classification they are in by 25 percent every year for the last four years.

This is the maximum amount an increase can be given to a classification, as I learned this morning at a meeting, Mr. Speaker. I really appreciate the staff at WCB for organizing and attending the meeting. Fortunately for us, I have learned at this meeting that the governance council has the mandate to review the classification and rates each year. I would like to call upon them to look at this situation ASAP.

Mr. Speaker, I need to tell you that they have a virtual ratepayer revolt on their hands. This issue has to be addressed immediately. We cannot allow the rate for one class to go up by 25 percent each year for four years in a row and not look at it to see what the problems are and put our heads together to solve them.

Mr. Speaker, all the mathematical and statistical information might explain how they got there, but they do not justify this kind of increase. Mr. Speaker, the ratepayers want to work with the WCB and consider all options on how to address them. We all need to listen.

Mr. Speaker, I don't believe anyone in this House would put up with a 25 percent increase in their auto or home insurance every year without asking very legitimate questions.

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High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 845

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

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High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 845

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

...that these operators are asking, and ones that I will be asking the Minister later today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 845

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. McLeod.

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Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 845

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement, I spoke on the state of the buildings in Inuvik. My questions are for the Minister of Public Works . In July of 2005, cracks were noticed in the Perry Building during a visual inspection and yet we didn't call the structural engineer until October. I would like to know why it took so long before we called in a structural engineer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 845

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for Public Works , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 845

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Perry Building is a leased asset. It is not our own facility. When the initial problems were noted, there was some investigation into what was occurring. Some work happened around removing the stone roof that was there and applying a different roofing material to lighten the load. That was done. After that was done, we had more staff move into the building and noticed that there were some more cracks and issues happening there. At that point, a call was made to bring in a structural engineer to have a look. Thank you.

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Return To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

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Supplementary To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A structural engineer was called in October, I believe. He didn't report back to DPW until the beginning of February. I would like to know why it took so long for the structural engineer to come back to DPW and, meanwhile, the employees are working in potentially unsafe conditions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not sure why the reporting of this and the report being received by us took so long. All I can say is that, when we did receive the report, we have taken action to make sure that the safety of employees were taken into consideration. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

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Supplementary To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to know how many other Perry buildings there are in Inuvik. Has DPW been inspecting these buildings to make sure we don't find ourselves in another situation like this? I would like to know what the plans are for the future with the workers and with the government buildings. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for the record, the Perry Building is not our asset. It is a leased building and we are working with the landlord around the issues that have just come up. The issue of how we deal with our own inspections and so on is something that we have started to take a look at. In fact, they are trying to beef up that side within the department around the risk side of the equation when we look at our facilities and assets. So we are starting to move in that area and working with Municipal and Community Affairs in the area of inspections and how they occur. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Question 358-15(4): Safety Of GNWT Workers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I must add to that list that I had, that we also have McDonald's in Range Lake. I don't want to miss anybody.

Mr. Speaker, I probably will not be over-estimating by saying that if Tim Horton's ever closed, we, especially the Yellowknife MLAs, will have to put our jobs on the line.

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of WCB . Mr. Speaker, in the last four years, the WCB rate for the classification that they are in went up from $1.30 per 100 in 2003, $1.90 for 100 in 2004, $2.34 per 100 in 2005, and $2.93 per 100 in 2006. In real terms, these mean tens of thousands of dollars that each business has to fork out to WCB every year. In comparison, the rate in Peace River actually went down. In 2005, it was $1.50 per 100 and in 2006, it is $1.30. I would like to know if the Minister, seeing as I know he will say that he has no control over this, would ask the governance council to review this issue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Minister responsible for WCB , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would be happy to ask the governance council to review the situation and the classifications. I think it is important that everybody understand that WCB is a non-profit insurance program. What they do is group employers together, collect the premiums from them in order to pay for injured workers' pensions and medical requirements. This isn't a situation where the WCB would be pocketing the money.

One of the reasons that the rates have gone up over the past few years is also because, in the year 2000 through 2003, the WCB was in a surplus position so they had 125 percent of the funds that were acquired. So they were operating up to a 30 percent discount on the rates in order to bring their surplus down. Obviously, as they bring their surplus down to the position they should be in, that means that the discount disappears. So there has been a significant reduction in the discount which people who are paying the rates would see as increases. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there is no implication on my part that the WCB is punishing these people to make money. I understand this is not a profit organization. I know it is an insurance organization. I know there were discounts when the investments were going well, but the increases have been up in the period after that. So that is not so relevant anymore. Mr.

Speaker, I also understand that insurance is about spreading liability, but, in this situation, when you have a classification of businesses that is seeing a maximum increase every year for four years in a row, there has to be an automatic step there for the governance council to look at to see what is going on and how they can reduce the rates. Would the Minister ask that, to have an automatic provision there? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 846

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will check with the governance council. I would be surprised if they didn't do that already. If not, I will suggest to them that they consider making that one of their policies, that

they review those classifications where they are seeing this sort of increase on a regular basis. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final, short supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

I have a short supplementary. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I learned that, obviously, there are a whole bunch of different classifications of businesses, clusters of businesses. In any given year, there are classifications where there is no increase. Then there are a whole bunch of classes that go up to the max. We need to review this because we are a small jurisdiction. Would the Minister ask the governance council to spread the pain and the liability in a more fair way? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The governance council brought in a team of actuaries -- I think the name was Morneau Soveco -- in the year 2004 to take a look at how the structure of the classification should be set up and make some recommendations. They are moving towards accomplishing those recommendations.

I guess we can ask the governance council to examine the situation, but there will be, of course, those employers who say that their rate classification is not seeing the level of accidents. They don't feel that they should subsidize rate classifications where the accidents are on the increase. That is largely what drives rate increases. If a group of employers, one of the groups or subgroups is seeing a number of accidents, then their rates tend to go up. But I would certainly be prepared to ask the governance council to take a look at the reasoning behind their decisions to move to the rate structure that was set in 2004 and make sure that they are valid. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Question 359-15(4): High Operating Costs Of Small Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of ECE just with respect to, as well, my Member's statement. I had a couple of constituents, Mr. Speaker, that had some SFA loans last year and they didn't do too well during the first semester. As a result, they lost all funding for that year plus the second semester. It caused quite a grievance to them. In fact, one of the students ended up actually quitting, Mr. Speaker. Is that something that is ongoing with the SFA Program?

Can we look at changing that, because it creates quite an unnecessary burden on our students, especially if it is like a one-time thing in the first semester? It is not that they are bad students. It is just that they are experiencing difficulties in the transition, moving to a different location, Mr. Speaker. If the Minister can answer that for me.

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Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Without knowing the details of the situation, I can tell the Member that it sounds like a situation that we have probably dealt with through the changes to the regulations this year. Last year, a student had to complete successfully 75 percent of a full course load in order to be considered successful. It was measured term by term. We have changed things this year so that the measure of success is 60 percent success of a full-time course load and we measure that success over the entire school year rather than over one semester.

I believe that in the situation the Member is talking about, under our current regulations, the student would find the situation much more acceptable.

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Return To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just wondering if our appeal system is retroactive. In the situation I was talking about last year, the student was actually asked to return SFA funds for the whole year, based on his difficulties. He still did well in the second semester. How can we address this, Mr. Speaker, in our appeal system? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With situations like this, when they came to my attention, I agreed with the members who brought them to me and said, this isn't right. We need to make changes to the regulations. That is what we have done. Unfortunately, I don't have the power to change regulations like that retroactively. Once a debt is owed to the government under the Financial Administration Act, the Minister or the appeals committee can't resolve that. Only the Legislative Assembly, through

an act, can forgive debts to the government.

We have a situation where people are caught with last year's regulations. They have to live with the way those regulations were set. But going forward, we have changed it to be far more responsive, I think the Member will find, to our students' needs. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Supplementary To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 847

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess part of the difficulty, too, with the repayment scheme was that as the student went through the paperwork -- and actually

agreements were signed -- SFA didn't really say that they would be penalized for the whole year. I am just wondering if the department can provide me with a copy of the actual guideline, rule or FMBS guideline that specifically states that failure of one term will apply to the whole year's worth? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will make sure that we provide that in a letter to Mr. Menicoche very quickly.

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Further Return To Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Question 360-15(4): Student Financial Assistance For Students In Small Communities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions this morning are for Mr. Dent in his capacity as the Minister for Education, Culture and Employment and specifically to the responsibilities he has in the income support area. Mr. Speaker, the newly elected Conservative government is, we are told, going to be acting very quickly to implement its election pledge to give $100 for each child under six to assist families with day care and childcare requirements.

Mr. Speaker, our government, in a couple of other areas, also has a way of handling this for income support clients, especially where impact and benefit agreement awards may result in some cash or the national child benefit, for instance. Our government's practice for people on those programs, on income support programs, is to claw this money back. Mr. Speaker, will this government also be clawing back this $100 per child allowance that the newly elected Conservative government has pledged? Thank you.

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Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a bit premature to answer that question because we haven't seen the details of the program. As I understand how it has been talked about, the funding will flow to somebody who is on income support. Under our current regulations, that money would be seen as income and, therefore, would be counted in the assessment of income that the person has for that month, which would then impact on the amount of money that we would provide to them.

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Return To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Okay, Mr. Speaker. The argument is always out there. Low income people are already at or below the poverty line. Some cash would certainly make a difference in their hand, but we have the other argument here that it costs money to make childcare programs available and accessible, and therein lies the dilemma. Mr. Speaker, in the review of our overall income support framework, will the government be entertaining a new policy and a new outlook on how we are going to treat low income and income support clients in relation to outside cash awards that they might receive?

Is this something that we'll be able to look at and hopefully come up with some kind of long-term answer? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, that is one of the issues that will be up for consideration as we work through the process of re-examining our income security programs. It is an area that I have talked to the standing committee about that we will certainly be prepared to listen to advice. But when we come back and take a look at the package, it has to be something that we take a look at as a whole part of the package and whether or not it is appropriate or not. The short answer is yes, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, recognizing that it is early days and more details of the program have to come out, if this materializes as we anticipate, $100 per child under six, that could be a lot of cash. Does the Minister have any idea of what kind of new money that would result in? Under our current policy, what kind of new programs or enhanced programs could people look forward to? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, we have not done that level of assessment. I can point out, though, that our healthy children's initiative, for instance, is funded with monies that are reinvested from the national child benefit. So that is the sort of programming that we have right now that is funded with those sorts of programs and could be an example of what we might look at should we decide that this money does count as income. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Question 361-15(4): Administration Of Income Security Programs

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 848

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement today, I talked about the fact that this is NWT Mental Health Week, and I touched on some of the areas that this week is intended to draw attention to. No one likes to talk about addictions, mental illness or depression, but I think it is important that we do have weeks like this that do recognize the prevalence of these things in our communities and in our society because we need to do things to address them.

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Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there was a three-year plan, as the Member has indicated. We have completed the first two years. There has been a lot of discussion in the House about what is happening. As well, we thought it was an appropriate time to take a look at work that had been done. To that end, we did ask Dr. Chalmers to come back to take a look at what we had responded to in terms of her initial report back in 2001, the State of Emergency. That report will be tabled in this House and presented to committee members here before the rise of this House.

Basically, Mr. Speaker, we have 77 positions to date. There are 45 community wellness workers that are now in place, 24 mental health and addiction counsellors, as well as eight clinical supervisors. Mr. Speaker, a quick and important note is that, at the national level, there has been an agreement finally. The Member, in her statement, referenced mental health as the last taboo.

There was an agreement at the FPT table in support for the setting up of a national mental health committee similar to the health council to provide an oversight and an ability to look at what is happening in mental health services across Canada, because it is recognized that it is an area that is fragmented, under-recognized, under-represented, and there is a need for us to collaboratively, at the national level in all of the provinces and territories with the federal government, work together.

The hope is that the new federal government and the Minister of Health , Minister Clement, will honour that commitment, if we can move forward, not only with the work we are doing here but with that very important move to get a national approach to mental health services. Thank you.

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Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe that the commissioning of the report and the undertaking to increase the services as I have outlined in the challenges here is a very good step in the right direction. I quoted some statistics here: 36 percent of all hospitalizations are alcohol and drug use related; 30 percent related to depression. How are we going to measure the outcome of our investments that are being made? What is the process for ensuring that we are making progress and that the numbers are going in the right direction? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on the addiction side, very clearly, the record of some success would be the amount of alcohol consumed in the Northwest Territories as going down, that the reliance on shelters and folks going to jail because of alcohol-related crimes are going down, that the number of alcohol-related accidents are going down. These are some of the specific ones. On the mental health side, it is much more difficult to quantify because there is not, as the Member indicated, a black and white issue that you can easily measure.

The issue is going to be how coordinated are we and how able are we to respond to an unmet, pent-up demand that is out there for these types of services starting at the community level in all communities? Thank you.

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Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That

summary of indicators of all those things that he listed that are going down is certainly very good news. Something indirectly related to addictions, I suppose, are the incidents of FASD in our communities and in the North. There are very high rates. This might be slightly off in a different direction, but the Minister has just returned from an FASD conference, I believe. Do you have the same ability to measure whether or not we are making progress and seeing lesser incidents of FASD as a result of addictions in the North? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 849

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we should be clear, for the record, that I indicated that those would be indicators and, if those numbers did go down, they would be signs of success. It is unfortunate that I am not able to stand up and say with much joy and happiness in my voice that that, in fact, is happening, because it is not. It is something that we are striving for.

The FASD issue, as well, is a very complex and difficult subject where diagnosis of FASD is a very complicated process requiring a lot of work. Our ability to, in fact, diagnose these are very limited across Canada. The issue for us is going to be very basic initial indicators like the alcohol consumption, like the number of pregnant mothers acknowledging that they drink during pregnancy

being reduced, are two that come to mind. The other indicator, Mr. Speaker, in a more general sense, would be the recognition in schools that, possibly in the coming years, the number of special needs children seems to be dropping when it is recognized that a significant percentage of those children are FASD affected. Thank you.

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Question 362-15(4): Measuring Progress With Addictions And Mental Health Issues

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my questions today to Minister Bell who operates under the capacity of Industry, Tourism and Investment. During last session, I talked about a "Buy NWT," kind of a made-in-the-NWT program. I brought forward my concerns that we are not representing them in a capacity of a profile getting out there to our own citizens, as well as the rest of Canada, that we make good products here and that we should be looking for them at every opportunity. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is, what are we doing with this "Buy NWT" program I brought forward to him? Where are we to date on that program? Thank you.

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Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bell .

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Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the Member was very interested in our branding initiatives. A number of members of the committee have had this discussion with me as well in committee. Members will also remember that the NWT Arts Strategy response, the GNWT response did talk about a Visual Identity Program. We are partially underway. We have gone out looking for interest in developing some branding that will be used around NWT arts and crafts. We do think that NWT arts and crafts are something that we need to get out, promote, and make sure everybody in Canada and the world understand what we have to offer.

We are looking to develop this programming. It will start with the development of a logo. We are not out soliciting interest. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is excellent news that we are out looking for a logo and seeking interest, but have we spoken to the manufacturers? Mr. Speaker, I am well aware, many times I have brought it up, but we all know about the diamond industry that cuts and makes diamonds here in the sense of polishing. I am well familiar with the window industry, trusses, canvas bags, the special teas that are made downtown.

What I have asked for is something simple that we can start off with, which is supplying tags that say made in the NWT, so our northern residents can buy things with pride knowing that they were made locally. So those types of initiatives I am talking about moving quickly. Would the Minister respond on that aspect

whereas what are we doing in that regard to promote our local products? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Arts and crafts are but one piece. They are the first piece. It was in the interest of responding to the NWT Arts Strategy that we move forward on this. As I indicated the last time in the House we had this discussion, I have underway the BDIC is travelling to regions conducting a business program and service review to understand the types of programs that we are delivering. We want to know how they are working, whether or not they're still relevant. One of the things they are talking about is manufacturing in the North.

We do want to move forward on a manufacturing strategy, but it has to make sense. You can imagine that there's got to be a lot of discussion around what percentage of value added does a product need to be in order to be considered NWT manufactured? There's a big difference between building cabinetry, for instance, from scratch and order cabinetry from the South and putting doors or doorknobs on it, and we have to have some discussion around what qualifies as NWT manufactured. So we are undertaking that discussion, as well, Mr.

Speaker, but it's more complex than the arts and crafts piece which is why it has not rolled out as quickly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm not really talking about splitting atoms here in the concept of, you know, we have to create a whole new program or department or whatnot just to get some pride out there. I'm talking about logos, little tags that we can add on. I remember when we sent out carvings, they had little tags saying that they were northern made. I'm talking about stickers that people can put on their products and people can buy with pride.

So I'm talking about fullness of consultation about getting out there and just doing something simple so we can get this moving forward, and then we can worry about refining it with the fullest of consultation. So, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the Minister, would he extend consultation, of course, to both the bands and municipal corporations because I'm very familiar with, for example, the City of Yellowknife has a whole economic development department, so would he extend that consultation to those bands and municipal corporations that do this type of thing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 850

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it's important to understand that we can't simply issue stickers that people can plunk onto their products. This has to be credible; it has to be real. We can't have situations where we have products that aren't really manufactured in the North, aren't really northern arts and

crafts. There's got to be a way for us to support our manufacturing and arts and crafts industry, but also be able to audit it. We have to ensure that we provide certainty to people who are purchasing these products. So it's very important to us to maintain the integrity of our branding programs. It isn't as simple as it might appear, but we will work with all of the interested stakeholders. We are underway now in this regional consultation. We'll make sure that we have discussions with all the communities and all of the interested partners. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 363-15(4): Made-in-the-nwt Branding Initiatives

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Oral questions. The honourable Member from Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the honourable Member responsible for Justice, Mr. Brendan Bell . I want to ask some questions today in regard to a police dog attack on a good Samaritan that happened in the city of Yellowknife just recently. It's not the first time that this dog has attacked somebody. In the past it happened to be a criminal, but this time it was a good Samaritan. I'd just like to ask the Minister of Justice what the government's response is. You know, Mr.

Speaker, I was very supportive of this dog and the handler showing up here in Yellowknife to do some good work, but this is the second time. Did we get a second-rate dog, or what is the real story behind this dog, Mr. Speaker? I'd like to ask the Minister of Justice that question. Thank you.

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Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Minister responsible for Justice , Mr. Bell .

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Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think all Members are supportive of this initiative. The dog has been successful in helping us find drugs in residences, helping us find drugs in parcels, I think it's going to help us in our strategy and work with the street team to get drugs off the streets. It can also be used in situations where we're trying to apprehend people. In the case that we're talking about, there was an apprehension underway of some people who were stealing snow machines. Unfortunately, yes, a good Samaritan was injured.

We have to review the incident and make sure that all of the proper procedures and protocols were followed. It does cause me some concern. We will be in discussion with the RCMP to make sure that we're doing everything we can to ensure that people are safe as we use this. We do have to ensure that and are following up on this. Thank you.

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Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this good Samaritan had to be medevaced to Edmonton, as far as my information tells me. I think certainly from a public relations standpoint, Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister of Justice has a problem on his hands because if we want to get the public involved and assisting the RCMP and helping out, the next time somebody goes to help the RCMP they're going to be worried that this dog is around the corner and it's going to attack them. I think, Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Justice and this government have to try to get the message out there that this isn't going to be the case, this won't happen again, and that it was an isolated incident. But, Mr. Speaker, the track record would suggest that it's not an isolated incident and I'd like to know what the Minister of Justice is going to do about this dog. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Bell .

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Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, it is an isolated incident and I don't want to get into the details of the incident that the Member referred to initially because it's a matter before the courts. But I can tell you that this is the first instance with this dog in the North where a bystander has been injured. We can go through the details, but, of course, I think it's premature at this point. I can assure the Members that I've asked the department to sit down with the RCMP and undertake a full review. I will agree that public support for this initiative is very important.

We do have to maintain public support, but I don't want people to think that the dog is a danger. I think there were some circumstances here that lead to this injury happening and we will undertake this review. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the discussions that the Minister of Justice has with the RCMP, I'm wondering if in part of those discussions will be if we cannot get a new dog. I think maybe that's part of the problem, Mr. Speaker, is to get a new dog, one that's going to not do what the one did just yesterday, Mr. Speaker. I'd like the Minister to at least ask the RCMP if we cannot trade out this dog. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Bell .

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Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 851

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously a lot of money and training goes into being able to work with a dog like this. It's simply not a matter of subbing a dog in or out. It takes a lot of work with the handler. In this particular situation, unfortunately the RCMP handler had asked the bystander to stay back and not get involved in the chase, and he did involve himself in the chase. The people in question who had been stealing snow machines apparently, or allegedly stealing snow machines, had been asked to stop.

They did stop, and then the bystander entered the picture and ran onto the scene to try to help, and I think the dog mistook the bystander for one of the individuals. So it's an unfortunate circumstance. Somebody was very hurt and that is very serious, and we take that very seriously. Again, I'll give the House the full assurance that we are undertaking a review and we'll make sure that we do whatever we can to see that this won't happen again. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Question 364-15(4): Police Dog Attack On Good Samaritan

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 852

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Written questions. Returns to written questions. Order! Replies to the budget address. Petitions. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Tabling of documents. Notices of motion. Notices of motions for the first reading of bills. First reading of bills. The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Bill 20:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2

Item 15: First Reading Of Bills

Page 852

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh , that Bill 20,

An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, No. 2 , be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Bill 20:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2

Item 15: First Reading Of Bills

Page 852

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Motion's on the floor. Motion's in order.

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Bill 20:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2

Item 15: First Reading Of Bills

Page 852

An Hon. Member

Question.

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Bill 20:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No. 2

Item 15: First Reading Of Bills

Page 852

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Question's being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 20 has had first reading. First reading of bills. Second reading of bills. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 18 , committee reports 5, 6 and 7, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

I'll call Committee of the Whole to order. When we left off yesterday, we were doing the detail of the information items for the NWT Housing Corporation. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Menicoche .

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

We'll continue with the deliberation of the Housing Corporation.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Then I will ask Mr. Krutko if he'd be prepared to take the witness table and have his witnesses join him. Is committee agreed?

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. I'm going to ask the Sergeant-at-Arms, please, if you would bring Mr. Krutko 's witnesses to the table.

Committee members, we left off on page 8-34 and I'd like to welcome Mr. Koe, the president of the Housing Corporation, back to the Chamber today. We're on page 8-34, information item, district operations, grants and contributions. I'll give Members a chance to find their place.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. Page 8-37, Public Housing Program funding, operations expenditure

summary.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Page 8-38, information item, Public Housing Program funding, grants and contributions. Mr. Braden .

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Madam Chair, a lot has been in the North, and in this government and around the world about the escalating cost of energy and how it impacts our cost of living, and certainly in this government how it's going to impact our bottom lines. I would like to see if the Minister could give us a bit of information on what kind of energy initiatives the Housing Corporation has undertaken to assist in managing this extremely expensive part of our operation.

I note, Madam Chair, that in the information given that the department is looking at a couple of areas of increasing expenditures. It's an interesting kind of inversion going on here, Madam Chair, in that heating fuel budgeted for -- this is under Public Housing Program funding for the provision of public housing and rent supplement programs to low income residents. We're actually forecasting a decrease in the cost of heating fuel, Madam Chair, from an estimated $6.4 million this year to 5.7.

This is sort of why I was asking what kind of energy management programs are we undertaking here, because if we're going to be saving this kind of money, I'd sure like to find out how they're doing it, Madam Chair.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Krutko .

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 852

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we are involved in the process government-wide with all government departments and agencies, and looking at the high energy costs, especially the high-rising fuel costs in which there are dollars that will be approved in this House through the supp to carry us forward. We did not build it into our estimates. In the last year we did. I think because of the uncertainty of the high price and the impact that it's had territorial-wide and also government-wide, that it has been managed now through the central government.

We are looking at the energy affects that we've seen, so we're again with our partners, we're working with the Arctic Energy Alliance in regards to finding ways to how we utilize energy and also how we use energy. Also, with our local housing authorities, we've been having workshops with our different authorities to find more ways of conserving energy, but also finding new technologies that are out there in regards to using less energy and also bringing down the costs to ourselves and operations.

Members realize that there is a high cost to operate public housing, especially in the communities, and one of the highest cost-drivers we have, you think it will be electricity, but realistically the highest cost we pay is for water consumption for our public housing units because we pay a high rate by way of the government rate in most of these communities. So to deal with that, we do have a full volume of flush toilets. We're able to try to conserve energy. We're doing some pilot projects in regards to the different communities, of how do we re-use or recycle water that's being used in those units.

Also, we're looking at energy-efficient appliances in regards to changing the heating systems we have in our facilities that are more energy-efficient than the older furnaces that we have in place. So we do have some pilot projects that are in place, but again that the Member talks about in regards to fuel costs is territory-wide. It affects all government departments and it is an issue that is dealt with through

the Government of the Northwest Territories across the board, so we are a part of that program.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Just for the record, Mr. Anderson has joined us at the witness table. Mr. Braden .

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Madam Chair, does the Housing Corporation...Has it set any specific targets for reduction or management of energy costs? It's all very useful to hear of these various areas: yes, we're going to look into new technology; we're going to look into changing our appliances; we're going to look into, you know, better training and technical orientation. The Arctic Energy Alliance I think is showing some real leadership in this area here.

I guess I have to remind myself, Madam Chair, this is the work of the oversight and accountability within Committee of the Whole here and it's difficult to be able to do a good job from this side when we don't have targets or milestones that we think could be out there. So I'd like to ask the corporation, has it set any targets, any parameters for the kinds of reductions that it sees as possible? Thank you.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Krutko .

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there has been a decision made within the government departments to be more energy efficient and also bringing down that cost in which we've decreased the amount of subsidy we have received in regards to fuel. I think all departments were directed that we have to find 50 percent by way of next year's allocation in house to cover those higher costs we've recovered for this year, and next year we have to be able to find ways of reducing our costs by 50 percent. That direction has been given and that's why it's reflected the way it is in regards to the budget; it's why you see such a decrease.

But again, we are working to find ways of being more aware of the cost of operating our housing, but also the cost of heating our units. Again, we are trying different things and working with the people in the industry to look at more energy-efficient appliances and trying to make our customers aware, in regards to our clients, and making them realize what it really costs for our units. So we are doing mail-outs to our tenants to make them more aware of the costs of those units.

In regards to the budget, one of the ways we've dealt with that is the way we construct houses. We used to do a lot of single home construction, now we're looking at multi-construction configuration so that we have a centralized heating system, a centralized boiler system and also that we're able to take advantage of a centralized mechanical system in a lot of these units which make these units more energy efficient. In the older systems in the single-built houses, the cost of operating those compared to the multi-constructed units, we have really seen the savings in that area.

So as you can see from the budget, the majority of the houses that are going to be built in regards to the replacement of a lot of our public housing units will be multi-built construct configurations. So that's another way we're trying to deal with bringing down the high costs of the fuel costs in a lot of these communities. Thank you.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Mr. Braden .

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Madam Chair, the Housing Corporation also leases a lot of property, and to that extent, along with, say, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, the Department of Health, we are, this government collectively is a major tenant, perhaps the biggest single tenant, if you will, in the whole of the Northwest Territories.

Now, when it comes to deciding how best to negotiate our leases and get the best value for our money, Madam Chair, it's becoming increasingly important that we look at the long-term operating costs of our leases, in addition to, or perhaps even more significant than the simple per-square-foot leasing costs. So I want to ask, what steps has the Housing Corporation taken to assess the long-term lifecycle of operating costs?

Given the huge spike in energy and utility costs, can we hear something about just how much this factors into our decisions on which landlords to lease with and what impact does that have on our bottom line dollar figure? Are we putting a strong emphasis on the long-term operating costs of, say, a newer, more modern building compared to an older one? Thank you.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Krutko .

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we do five-year reviews in regards to the escalation costs, but I'd just like to point out we are getting away from leasing units and building more of our own units. So with regards to the leases that are in place, there is the five-year review in regards to the escalation costs where we look at that. But I think also realizing that we are getting out of being involved in long-term lease commitments in which we are becoming more involved in our own property management and not depending on the third parties.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Mr. Braden .

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Madam Chair, thank you. That was not quite my question, though. I want to know, when we look at leasing or renting a building, does the Housing Corporation have a way of analyzing the long-term operating costs of buildings? I guess to illustrate this very briefly, Madam Chair, if I'm going out to lease a building and one landlord offers me a 20-year-old building with a lease cost of $10 a square foot, and then I'm looking at a newer building that's going to cost $20 a square foot, over the long-term cost of that I know that the older building is going to cost me more to operate than the newer building.

Are we calculating this into our decision about who to lease with? That's the point. Have we got a way of assessing long-term operating costs and is the corporation factoring that into its negotiations?

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Koe.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

Koe

Mahsi. Yes, the corporation does look at all those factors. We have people on staff in our property management

section that assess these costs and when we are negotiating transactions to look at buildings or new structures, we do take into consideration energy efficiency systems.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 853

The Chair

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Hawkins .

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 854

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to address my questions to page 8-39. I was reading leasing commitments infrastructure under the North Slave district and I noticed under office space, Yellowknife...Sorry. I thought we were on that page.

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Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 854

An Hon. Member

No. Page 8