Debates of March 24th, 2004

This is page numbers 237 - 292 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

2004 Federal Budget

World Tb Day

American Gem Society Laboratories Visit

Fort Good Hope Search And Rescue Volunteer Awards Night

Access Road Connecting Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Reflections On The 2004 Federal Budget

Observations On The Performance Of Premier And Cabinet

Response To The Federal Budget

Tlicho Self-government Agreement Information Session

Debt Repayment To The NWT Business Credit Corporation

Reflections On The 2004 Federal Budget

Early Childhood Development

Reviewing And Improving Legal Aid

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Self-government And Taxation

Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Formula Financing And Revenue Sharing

Benefits Of The Federal Budget

Business Credit Corporation Loans Arrears

Impacts Of Federal Budget On Small NWT Communities

Written Question 7-15(3): WCB Revenues And Expenses For 2002-03 And 2003-04

Written Question 8-15(3): Sex Offender Registry

Written Question 9-14(3): Reclamation Of Miramar Con Mine

Return To Written Question 1-15(3): Bill Of Intent To Seek Provincial Status

Tabled Document 3-15(3): NWT Housing Corporation Invitation To Tender: 2004 Supply Of Mobile Homes

Tabled Document 4-15(3): Gwich'in And Inuvialuit Self-government Agreement-in-principle

Tabled Document 5-15(3): Legal Services Board Annual Report, 1996-97

Tabled Document 6-15(3): Legal Services Board Annual Report, 1997-98

Tabled Document 7-15(3): Legal Services Board Annual Report, 1998-99

Tabled Document 8-15(3): Legal Services Board Annual Report, 1999-2000

Tabled Document 9-15(3): Legal Services Board Annual Report, 2000-01

Tabled Document 10-15(3): Legal Services Board Annual Report, 2001-02

Tabled Document 11-15(3): Action Plan To Strengthen Tuberculosis Management And Control In The Nwt: Status Report, March 2004

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

To Continue To Provide Base Funding For The Early Childhood Development Program

To Undertake A Quantitative Evaluation On Grade Extensions To Gauge Student Success

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Allen , Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya , Honourable Henry Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 237

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Minister's Statement 15-15(3): 2004 Federal Budget

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 237

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday the Minister of Finance for Canada, the Honourable Ralph Goodale, tabled the 2004 federal budget. I am pleased to report that this budget contained some good new for the Northwest Territories.

Among the issues addressed in the budget were the territorial formula financing agreement, a northern strategy for economic development, northern oil and gas development and health care. Also, there are provisions in the budget for environmental cleanup of contaminated sites and seabed mapping of the continental shelf. Although more detail is required on some of these initiatives, I believe that they will contribute positively to the overall situation in the NWT and we can be pleased with these initial positive signals from the federal government.

Mr. Speaker, the territorial formula financing agreement is the largest single source of GNWT revenues, and its adequacy is critical to our ability to provide health care, education and other essential services. I met with Mr. Goodale last month to discuss renewal of this agreement. At that time, he indicated he was prepared to increase funding under our formula financing agreement by $7.6 million in 2004-05. This amount would increase to $17 million in 2006-07 as the funding currently provided by Canada under the three-year territorial health fund is made permanent. These amounts were included in the revenue forecast I provided last Wednesday in my budget address.

In the budget address last Wednesday, I outlined a number of concerns with the federal proposal. The first was the need for additional funding to restore the adequacy of our formula to meet our expenditure needs. I noted that the federal proposal to address adequacy, while welcome, still fell short of the full restoration of the cut to our expenditure base made in 1996.

The second concern related to the calculation of the GNWT's tax effort in the formula, more commonly referred to as rebasing. The tax effort factor measures the GNWT's revenue raising capacity compared to the provincial average. Although Mr. Goodale's budget does not meet all our concerns, it does go part way and provides an important opportunity for us to continue to make our case on tax effort.

During our discussions about the renewal of the formula, we argued strenuously that initial calculations to rebase our formula made no sense to us. We have been unable to reconcile the numbers we were seeing with what we have observed about our own tax increases over the past 10 years compared with the provinces. Furthermore, rebasing would have a very large negative effect on our revenues. It would have offset any federal initiatives on adequacy, and would reintroduce perversity into the formula.

During discussions with Mr. Goodale, I proposed postponing rebasing for at least a year, to allow our officials to review the calculations, methodology and concept behind the tax effort adjustment factor.

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased that the federal Minister has responded positively, and has agreed to postpone rebasing for one year, to 2005-06. More importantly, he has also agreed that officials should review the tax effort adjustment factor and report back to us so that a decision can be made for 2005-06.

The delay of one year in rebasing our formula will have a significant positive, one-time impact on our fiscal situation. The revenue forecast I provided last week for 2004-05 has now improved by approximately $50 million.

---Applause

This money will be used to eliminate the deficit for 2004-05.

Welcome as this news is, Mr. Speaker, I must insert a note of caution. This is a one-time improvement that affects only the upcoming fiscal year, 2004-05. The long-term fiscal outlook does not change. In order to meet our target of a balanced budget by 2006-07, it is critical we maintain the fiscal strategy laid out in my budget address last week. We still need to identify an additional $20 million in expenditure savings and cost avoidance in each of 2005-06 and 2006-07 and we must increase our own-source revenues.

Mr. Speaker, the federal budget also announced a number of other measures for the North. These measures will not directly impact the GNWT's revenues, as they will be delivered through federal programs. We will need to get more specifics about how this money will be allocated, and how the Northwest Territories will be affected.

The budget contained an announcement of $90 million in funding over the next five years to implement a northern development strategy for the three northern territories. I understand that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, Mr. Bagnell, will have responsibility for developing this strategy in conjunction with Minister Mitchell. We are anxious to learn how this funding will be allocated across the North,

and what the criteria will be for its investment. It is important that this money be invested directly in the North, in areas that reflect northern priorities. My colleague, the Honourable Brendan Bell , Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , will be following up on this issue.

The $75 million over three years that the federal government is allocating internally to northern oil and gas development will increase federal and regional environmental assessment capacity and streamline the regulatory process.

The budget also set aside $3.5 billion over 10 years for the cleanup of contamination on federal lands. It is estimated that 60 percent of this funding will be spent in the North. This funding will be used to clean up contaminated sites such as Port Radium, Giant Mine and the DEW Line sites.

Mr. Speaker, an important part of our fiscal strategy is a better deal from Canada. The changes to the formula will also help us meet our short-term needs, but do not address our longer-term requirements. We must continue to work with the federal government to address the adequacy of our fiscal arrangements on a long-term basis in order to ensure a solid fiscal foundation for the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 15-15(3): 2004 Federal Budget

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 238

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 16-15(3): World Tb Day

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 238

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today is World TB Day. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize the work that is being done to fight this disease, and the need for continued vigilance.

Mr. Speaker, the tuberculosis rate in our territory has remained five to 10 times above the national average over the past decade. Since the beginning of this year, five new cases have already been diagnosed, all in elders. The disease spreads through the air and can infect anyone. As Members know, this is very serious.

This morning we were launching a new video called Stop TB. The video is available in all of our health centres and we've also translated it into French, Gwich'in and Dogrib. It includes interviews taped in Lutselk'e, Rae Edzo, Wekweti, Aklavik and Yellowknife. I trust it will be a valuable resource and help people to recognize the early symptoms of TB. They can get tested in their own communities.

The department and authorities are working very hard to encourage people to get tested and to go for treatment if they need it.

• We have new clinical practice guidelines and are developing new hospital standard regulations.

• We are providing community profiles and training to identify TB patients.

• We have a new Tuberculosis control manual.

• We are developing proactive screening programs, because some people can carry the disease without getting sick.

• We report on the number of TB cases regularly.

• We are providing training and orientation to health care workers at all levels, including doctors, nurses, community health representatives and TB workers.

Mr. Speaker, I'm very proud of the work that's been done, but it's clear that we still have a long way to go. I hope we can continue this work and lower our TB rates to zero. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 16-15(3): World Tb Day

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 238

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Bell .

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Minister's Statement 17-15(3): American Gem Society Laboratories Visit

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 238

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the American Gem Society Laboratories is one of the major polished diamond grading laboratories in the world. The American Gem Society grades polished diamonds for colour, clarity, carat and cut. It is one the world leaders in developing grading certification processes and was the first major laboratory in the world to grade for cut, based on its own cut grade system.

I am pleased today to host a delegation from the American Gem Society Laboratories, and at the appropriate time I will recognize my guests who are present in the gallery.

The American Gem Society currently operates one lab in Las Vegas, Nevada, and the United States is the primary market for their certificates. Some polished diamonds produced in the Northwest Territories are graded by the American Gem Society, primarily the higher quality and best cut diamonds, Mr. Speaker.

This visit is an opportunity for us to promote and explore Northwest Territories business opportunities with the American Gem Society Laboratories. These include the potential development of a coordinated certificate that includes the GNWT's certification of origin and the American Gem Society Laboratories' certification for quality. We will also explore opportunities to work together on research, development and technology with respect to new diamond cuts and rough diamond tracking.

The Government of the Northwest Territories looks forward to ongoing discussions with the American Gem Society Laboratories, and other prominent members of the international diamond industry, with the goal of ensuring that the NWT diamonds reach a broad market base and that our diamond industry develops to the maximum benefit of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 17-15(3): American Gem Society Laboratories Visit

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 238

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Fort Good Hope Search And Rescue Volunteer Awards Night

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 239

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to acknowledge the volunteers of the Sahtu region. It has been brought to my attention that the community of Fort Good Hope in the Sahtu region will be hosting a volunteer awards dinner tomorrow at noon. Mr. Speaker, these volunteers will be recognized for their efforts in the search and rescue of the fatal plane crash last year that took the lives of some precious people that we dearly loved and are missed by our people.

Mr. Speaker, there are many volunteers who make huge contributions to our communities. With the region pulling together to help one another, this shows that as northern people we are unstoppable when we pull together for a common cause.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to say that approximately 25 individuals in the Sahtu region will be recognized, and I would like to personally say thank you very much to all these individuals for making a difference in the Sahtu. Thank you.

---Applause

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Fort Good Hope Search And Rescue Volunteer Awards Night

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 239

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Access Road Connecting Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 239

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise in the House today to share with my colleagues an issue that is very important to my constituency and to the city of Yellowknife. The issue is that of an access road being constructed to connect Highway No. 3 to the Kam Lake Industrial Park.

Mr. Speaker, this access road from Highway No. 3 is necessary to lend our attention to for a variety of reasons. As most Members are aware, Airport Road in Yellowknife is a very busy thoroughfare. In fact, during rush hours at 8:30, noon and 5:00 p.m., it can be congested to the point where some residents are avoiding it. Businesses along the route suffer as a result.

Residents who live in the area have no choice. They just have to put up with the situation. The number of large trucks and service vehicles can create a safety problem along the route for residents who bike, run or walk. The City of Yellowknife would like to pursue the construction of this road, Mr. Speaker. The question is the availability of the land to construct this much needed strategic piece of road infrastructure. As I understand it, the Department of Transportation applied for this land to facilitate future airport initiatives, while at the same time working on a joint engineering study with the City. Where is this study?

In order for the City of Yellowknife to be able to afford the construction of the access road, it would need to sell lots along the route. This would be the only way the City could afford to undertake such an endeavour. Industrial lots are at a premium in Yellowknife. This initiative would certainly help open up additional land. Mr. Speaker, I would hope that this government is not getting in the way of the City of Yellowknife and their ability to get this initiative started. We must do whatever we can to help facilitate this project.

I would like to mention that I will have questions at the appropriate time on the order paper for the Minister of Transportation and the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs . Thank you.

---Applause

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Access Road Connecting Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 239

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Reflections On The 2004 Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 239

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will remain consistent with the theme of my Member's statements for this week, using wording that is complimentary to the federal budget address. Although the document acknowledges that much of the funding will not be administered through the Government of the Northwest Territories, this still gives my constituency much relief; the federal government will, once again, make a large investment in supporting a social economy in the North.

It is nice to read that the federal budget provides new pilot program funding for the social economy and community economic development organizations for capacity building, financing and research. Although the plan for the projected $90 million in economic development funding has not been established, we feel that this investment is nothing short of a plus for northern economic development programs.

Mr. Speaker, it is encouraging, as well, to see that northern oil and gas development will also see an investment of $75 million over three years to increase federal and regional environmental assessment capacity and streamline the regulatory process. It is exceptionally beneficial for my region of the Northwest Territories as it provides for more research for work associated with development in the Mackenzie Delta/Beaufort Sea area.

Mr. Speaker, this funding announcement is crucial to the ongoing commitment to support the oil and gas activity in the North. I am pleased to have read the observations provided by the Minister of Finance this morning. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Reflections On The 2004 Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 239

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Observations On The Performance Of Premier And Cabinet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 239

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to provide this House with my early observations on the performance of our Premier and Cabinet Ministers. Not so many weeks ago, we gathered here to choose from amongst ourselves people to fill various positions of leadership in the 15th Assembly. Some of us are returning Members, but we also have six new Members; almost one-third of us brand new to the territorial level of government.

Over the past few days and weeks, we have gotten to know each other a little better. We have had a chance to observe old colleagues in new roles, such as yourself, Mr. Speaker, having had to make the transition to the Speaker's role, which is a very unique role. Of the seven

Cabinet Ministers, four have some experience in Cabinet and three do not; committee chairs are new to the role; and, we have a new Clerk. We are all getting down to work, many with some degree of a learning curve but, for now, I am on the subject of the Cabinet.

Let's start with the Premier . I know that when the economy is booming in Yellowknife, it might be hard to get excited about a vision for the whole Territories. I know we are planning to get together with other northern leaders in April but, with 50 participants and only a few days, the topics we explore will probably be fairly broad. I am personally disappointed that we didn't hear a sessional statement as I think the people of the North are awaiting a clear message in terms of direction and goals. The Premier has to be our point man on that front.

We could say that this session was the Finance Minister 's dance because it was the budget session, but our people are waiting to see what kind of a government we are. They want to hear what we are collectively thinking, regardless of whether they agree or disagree. They want to hear something. It is not good enough to give our message once. We need to keep repeating it over and over.

A while back, I discussed with our mayor the subject of continuity in Cabinet assignments; for example, Mr. Miltenberger and Mr. Dent both have prior experience in their respective portfolios. I have no doubt that both are hard workers who keep themselves apprised of the issues in their departments. But, I must say, I don't see a lot of enthusiasm there. Granted, our government isn't flush with cash for new ideas and new initiatives at this moment, but I would really like to see a little more passion for the issues in their departments. I don't want to feel like I had to wake someone from a deep sleep when I get up to ask questions in this House.

---Laughter

---Applause

If we were just looking for good managers, we would let the deputy ministers run the departments, but we are looking for leaders with ideas and passion for the challenges that are facing our constituents.

Mr. McLeod and Mr. Zoe haven't floated enough material for me to form an opinion yet. They are getting up to speed with their departments, so I am very much looking forward to seeing what they are going to come out with.

To Mr. Bell and Mr. Roland , I give an early vote of confidence. I see new ideas...Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my Member's statement.

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Observations On The Performance Of Premier And Cabinet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 240

The Speaker

David Krutko

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent.

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Observations On The Performance Of Premier And Cabinet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 240

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. To Mr. Bell and Mr. Roland , I give an early vote of confidence. I see new ideas, well-thought-out and well-spoken responses to Members' issues. They have obviously taken the effort to become well informed of some very complex issues. I have seen good interaction with Regular Members. They seem responsive and engaged. I applaud them for that.

Mr. Dent may be the longest-serving Member on the Cabinet side, but I am the longest-serving Member on this side of the House. I hope that a little constructive criticism in the form of observations on occasion will be received in the spirit in which it is offered. I don't want this to be known as the "status-quo government." The clock is ticking. Let us get a little fire going here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Observations On The Performance Of Premier And Cabinet

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 240

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Response To The Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 240

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I should take a few moments to offer some response to the federal budget delivered by the federal Minister of Finance , Hon. Ralph Goodale. Mr. Speaker, as is the case with all government budgets, the devil is always in the details; I do appreciate Mr. Roland for providing some and I look forward to getting more into the details in the days to come. Nevertheless, I do like what I am hearing in the budget.

Mr. Speaker, most importantly, I believe we can say that the North is now definitely on the radar screen of the people who control our purse strings in Ottawa, including Prime Minister Martin. He has been to the North, I know personally, a number of times in the last 10 years, in the time that he was working to become the Prime Minister. I believe that he is more aware of the northern issues than any other Prime Minister we have had. I really think that we have to take note of the way the aboriginal issues and northern issues now hold a prominent place in this budget which is seen by most analysts as a low-spending/status-quo budget

Mr. Speaker, I also believe that the credit should also go to the Premiers and the Finance Ministers of this Legislative Assembly, including the new Finance Minister Roland and Premier Handley, who also was the Minister of Finance under Premier Stephen Kakfwi for four years. We have worked hard to push our northern agenda into the forefront of the federal government. As our federal MP said in the media, in our business the work never ends.

Sometimes we forget to recognize when we win; I think this is definitely on the winning side. Mentioning Ms. Ethel Blondin-Andrew, I do want to recognize her involvement in this. She has spent 16 years in Ottawa educating all of the players about our economic, social and cultural potential. I do believe that she plays an important role in advancing our agenda.

I look forward to seeing more about how the $90 million in northern economic development, $75 million in oil and gas and extra money that we are going to get will have...what sort of detailed implication that is going to have. Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement?

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Response To The Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 240

The Speaker

David Krutko

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent to conclude.

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Response To The Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 241

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, I do understand that these monies that were announced by the federal government on economic development, oil and gas and many other issues are not coming directly to the GNWT, but they are monies that will come to the North. I do believe it is incumbent on this legislature and the Cabinet to jump on every penny coming to the North and find the leakages so that we maximize our benefit.

There were lots of other areas, such as student financial support, where we know our GNWT program is under great strain. Any additional assistance that the federal government provides would lessen the impact and the pressure on our system, such as the $50 million one-time expenditure that Minister Goodale had announced. I think it gives breathing space and I know that we are looking at a $20 million deficit cut in the next two years, but you never know. If we keep working as a group and the Minister of Finance and the Premier keep working with the federal government, we may be able to get a break on that.

I urge the Legislature to build on what we heard yesterday and keep going and to advance our agenda. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Response To The Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 241

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, members' statements. Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Tlicho Self-government Agreement Information Session

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 241

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I was pleased last night to host an information session for Great Slave constituents and Yellowknife residents on the Tlicho land claim and self-government agreement. I was gratified to see on a cold evening, here in Yellowknife, an audience of about 30 people who came out representing a diversity of views and opinions. I would like to acknowledge the support, Mr. Speaker, of the Tlicho First Nation and James Wah-Shee, a former Member of this Assembly and now a senior advisor to his people, for his presentation and response to questions.

As well, I would like to recognize the participation and involvement of the Honourable Joe Handley in his capacity as the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs . Staff from the ministry also came out and helped with the presentation. Our colleague, the Honourable Henry Zoe , the MLA for North Slave, was also present. I appreciate and thank them all for their contributions.

When the 14th Assembly passed the Tlicho Land Claim and Self-Government Agreement Act last October, there was concern among many about the awareness and lack of public input and the lack of time for a process that we would normally undertake to pass legislation. I undertook then to provide an opportunity for people to be better informed about the Tlicho agreement and the next two bills that this Assembly will be considering.

Mr. Speaker, these bills will propose the establishment of community governments in the four Tlicho communities, and the establishment of service agencies to help implement the agreement and provide for services by the Tlicho for their own people. The federal government also has to pass enabling legislation, which we learned is to be introduced in Parliament at the end of March. Hopefully, we will see passage before the anticipated federal election call.

Land claims and self-government are complex issues. They affect us all, Mr. Speaker. One of the points that was made at this meeting is that process is important. There are not easy or simple answers to many of the questions that were asked. We heard points of view and questions of the North Slave indigenous Metis, mining and resource development, the impact of boundary issues, community governments, land tenure and resource harvesting, to name a few of the issues. It was a lively exchange of views, Mr. Speaker. I should ask, at this time, for unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Tlicho Self-government Agreement Information Session

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 241

The Speaker

David Krutko

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent to conclude.

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Tlicho Self-government Agreement Information Session

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 241

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What we heard last night, Mr. Speaker, was a strong signal that Yellowknife residents are taking an active interest in what is going on with our neighbours to the north and the east. The feedback that I received was that the meeting was informative and generally well received. I hope that there will be more. Mr. Speaker, I am a supporter of the Tlicho people's goals and dreams to have their own governing institutions and take charge of their own affairs, through the responsibilities that this government and this legislature has to pass these laws and implement the legislation.

We have important work ahead of us. I look forward to seeing that being completed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Tlicho Self-government Agreement Information Session

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 241

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Debt Repayment To The NWT Business Credit Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 241

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mahsi Cho, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to speak about debt-free payment and the Business Credit Corporation. I think we all recognize the importance of small business to our economic growth. I think we would all agree that this government should take every opportunity to support our northern entrepreneurs; to advocate for the small businesses.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I have a situation in one of my communities that I represent where several small businesses have borrowed money and, through no fault of their own, their business ventures have failed. They did have loans with the Business Credit Corporation. Recently, in our House, we debated extensively how we allowed a huge loan to lapse and grant the proponents a very lenient solution for their cash flow problems. Yet, here at the small business level, at the community level, we use the fullest extent of the law in our system to recover whatever we can from them. To coin the phrase, Mr.

Speaker, we want their firstborn. I would just like to point out this glaring inconsistency in how we do business, and I want to ensure the public and my constituents that the government is indeed on notice, and we cannot govern with two standards. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Debt Repayment To The NWT Business Credit Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 241

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Reflections On The 2004 Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 242

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday, while we were grinding away in this House, with our lean, mean Minister of Health and Social Services -- listening to how he was going to meet the needs of the people of the Northwest Territories on what he was referring to as a shoestring budget of $250 million -- exciting things were happening in Ottawa. The federal Finance Minister was delivering the first sound financial management federal budget under Paul Martin. Although I didn't get to listen to the budget address, I did take time last night to read through it.

I don't know if this budget was put together with the best interests of Canadians in mind or the sheer desperation of political salvation.

---Applause

At one point, Mr. Speaker, I was feeling really good as I imagined that it was our very own Finance Minister addressing the needs of our residents and communities and doling out the figures to address our priorities. Figures like the health, $34 billion over five years with an additional $2 billion...Learning? Millions. I couldn't even add them up, Mr. Speaker. I never had time. Learning and commercialization, $280 million over two years. Communities, $7 billion into the hands of communities over the next 10 years. And then, Mr. Speaker, I woke up.

But one line in that paragraph under municipalities did catch my attention, Mr. Speaker. It said, "This is real money for improved roads, clean air and expanded local services."

Mr. Speaker, on my way to work this morning, I listened to the Honourable Ethel Blondin-Andrew giving her take on the budget. She was saying that it is the best the North has ever had. Their territorial formula financing of $150 million, health support of $60 million, economic development of $90 million, northern oil and gas, $75 million, contaminated sites, $3.5 million...Mr. Speaker, I was excited once again in driving to work having listened to our MP on the radio, only to get to the Legislative Assembly and then get a briefing from our Finance Minister saying that actually we got $7.5 million and a forgiveness of $50 million over one year.

Mr. Speaker, I don't want to speak negatively to the budget. I think there were some good things for the North, although it is not in our hands. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to close my statement.

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Reflections On The 2004 Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 242

The Speaker

David Krutko

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You have unanimous consent to conclude your statement.

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Reflections On The 2004 Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 242

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Although the money is not totally in our hands, there is a lot of money earmarked with DIAND for the North and the Northwest Territories. I think it is incumbent to us to keep the fire on DIAND to make sure that we get as many of those resources in the Northwest Territories as we possibly can. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Reflections On The 2004 Federal Budget

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 242

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Early Childhood Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 242

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my previous statements I spoke about the seniors of the NWT and their ever-increasing role of importance in the success of many of the various programs and services of this government and of the many benefits to our society. Today, Mr. Speaker, I will speak for persons on the other end of the spectrum who cannot hear their concerns in this House yet.

Mr. Speaker, today I'd like to speak about our children and the three-year early childhood development framework for action funding which comes to an end March 31, 2004. Mr. Speaker, during the past few months I have received numerous calls and letters from my constituents of Lutselk'e and Deninu Kue regarding budget cuts in this area. I was very impressed with how the family literacy programs and the early childhood programs have positively impacted my constituents, and with the high level of concern my constituents show in not wanting these programs to be affected by the current budget restraints.

Programs such as these are important for helping our children develop their literacy and language skills, as well as developing healthy parent/child relationships. I have directed some related correspondence about these concerns to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and made him aware that I am fully in support of my constituents' requests so that the budget cuts do not affect the literacy and early childhood development areas.

Mr. Speaker, I've also brought to the attention of the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment the speech from the Throne regarding the multilateral framework for early learning and childcare, and that the Minister acknowledged that his officials will continue to be in contact with their federal, provincial and territorial colleagues to monitor developments that will come out of this speech from the Throne. Mr.

Speaker, I will later be asking the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment to keep me informed as to how the changes in the literacy and early childhood programs after March 31st will affect my riding, the residents of the NWT and especially our most valued resources and our future, the children of the NWT, who should be provided and supported by this government with every opportunity to succeed. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Early Childhood Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 242

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Reviewing And Improving Legal Aid

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 242

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to remind all our colleagues that this government would allow overspending on the North Slave Young Offenders Corrections Centre but, Mr. Speaker, we take no drastic actions to save legal aid. We're going to allow it to grind into the ground. When will this government recognize and take their opportunities and waive those hands and say they need help? Because I'll tell you, Mr. Speaker, this side of the Assembly will be there to help. We need them to lead by vision, show that they want to

work with us because this side of the Assembly is willing to save legal aid.

---Applause

When will this government recognize that they're in a pickle and we're not going to force their hands? We want to work together on this issue? Mr. Speaker, a constituent of mine is now almost seven months without her very first appointment with legal aid. As I talked about earlier in previous statements, Mr. Speaker, this person has drastic issues about child support and maintenance, et cetera, so this person is under difficult circumstances, yet they're still waiting for an appointment.

Money isn't always the answer, but I can guarantee you that's the first thing out of the mouth of the Minister. We need more money, cut it from another program, just point to which one you want to take. Well, you know what? I wouldn't deny the fact that money is an issue and it is part of the solution, but we're willing to go into debt over a corrections centre, yet we're not willing to take drastic steps on saving programs that mean real value to our people.

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Reviewing And Improving Legal Aid

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 243

Some Hon. Members

Hear, Hear!

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Reviewing And Improving Legal Aid

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 243

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, you know, I'll truthfully say I'm exhausted bringing this issue up every day, but thank goodness I'm one of the youngest Members because I'm going to keep going at this darn stamina for four years if this is what it takes to make this Minister listen to this issue. Using that stamina, and sometimes being referred to as stubborn, I'll move forward and continue to press this Minister to start focusing on the issue of vision and leadership to address this.

One day, Mr. Speaker, as I'm approaching the closing statement, someday this Minister will echo I'm working on this problem. I've not heard that yet. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Reviewing And Improving Legal Aid

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 243

The Speaker

David Krutko

Just to caution the Member that if you're making a statement, I don't think it's appropriate to pound on the table to get your message across. Speaking will do that job. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 15-15(3): Constitutional Questions Related To Attaining Provincehood

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 243

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Allen on March 17, 2004 regarding the constitutional questions related to attaining provincehood.

Mr. Speaker, the Aboriginal Summit is a society established by aboriginal organizations to represent their interests in the Intergovernmental Forum process, including the negotiation of the transfer of lands and resources to the Northwest Territories. While the Aboriginal Summit does not have constitutional status, many of its member organizations have lands, resources and self-government agreements that do recognize and protect their rights under

section 35 of the Constitution Act. Other member organizations of the summit are in the process of negotiating agreements that will address their aboriginal rights.

The Northwest Territories Act does not entrench the rights of aboriginal peoples. It sets out the powers of the Government of the Northwest Territories to ensure that the business of government is carried out in the NWT.

---Applause

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Further Return To Question 15-15(3): Constitutional Questions Related To Attaining Provincehood

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Bell .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 243

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following up on my Minister's statement today, I'd like to recognize the delegation from the American Gem Society who have come all the way from Las Vegas to visit us. They are: Charles Lacy, who is the chairman of the board for the AGS; Steven Viegler, the CEO; Peter Yantzer, the executive director. Also with them is Martin Irving, our director of diamond projects for RWED. I'd like to welcome you and wish you a productive visit.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 243

The Speaker

David Krutko

I, too, would like to welcome you to the Northwest Territories and hope you enjoy your visit. Welcome to the House. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Ms. Lee .

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Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 243

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today is to the Minister of Finance and it's with regard to his statement this afternoon about the federal budget. Mr. Speaker, from the information that we have been provided with, it is my understanding that our government will be receiving $7.5 million next year extra, but there's more in the next five years that amounts to about $74.4 million. On top of that, we're getting a one-time break of $50 million, which by my calculations is about $124 million. Could the Minister advise as to whether or not this is new money?

I understand, at least not the $50 million, but $74.4 million is already on the books. We've expected it to come, but it is growth money. It is new money that we're getting from the federal government. Is that not true, Mr. Speaker?

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Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 243

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 243

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the amount identified for territorial formula financing will be in the area of $7.6 million for the 2004-2005 year and that is built into our estimates. In fact, even for 2005-2006, the $9.2 million, those numbers are already built into our forecast of what we were working with as a result of our meeting with the Finance Minister in February. The $50 million that I referred to is due to

putting off the rebasing exercise on our tax effort for the 2004-2005 year, which gives us a one-year amount. That's not new money. It would have been taken out. They've agreed to put that process on hold and have our officials work on the tax-effort portion of our formula. Thank you.

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Return To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm trying to find a way to simplify these figures so the people who are listening to us can understand it better. Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that this $50 million is money, call it a break or the federal government not asking us for something that they were going to ask us for, but in the end it's going to have a positive impact on our deficit situation. My understanding is that while we were expecting a $47 million deficit for this fiscal year budget, with this new $50 million break, whether it's on paper or real money, we're not going to have to have that sort of deficit.

So it is a positive in that aspect and my question, Mr. Speaker, I'll just make short. The process that we have been engaged in over the last week has been painful. We're trying to cut costs where we can and we're told that it's going to get worse in the next two years because we'll have to cut $20 million extra over the next two years. Is there any way for us to get a little break on this and be able to do some things that we need to do now that we have extra money, at least on paper? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, taking the example the federal government has set, this government intends to be prudent with the money that we do have and not going forward with the rebasing exercise gives us a $50 million impact for the 2004-2005 year and will be put towards our deficit. That's our intention with that money. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm sure we'll have more chance to debate on that one. I do understand that we need to be prudent and we don't want to spend every penny that comes our way, but I think it is something that we need to talk more about.

Mr. Speaker, my next question has to do with the announcement of $400 million for immunization programs by the federal government. We in the NWT just did an immunization of youth and I believe we approved a supplementary budget or special warrant in the amount of about $800,000. Can I just ask the Minister what sort of impact this new money, I think it's $525,000 for the GNWT, will have on that budget item? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a couple of points. One of the reasons we are facing our fiscal situation is that previous governments were given one-time earnings and so on, and spent that money on important issues across the North. But now we're in a situation where we don't have the money to keep on going. We're putting this money towards the deficit.

---Applause

And that's what it's identified for, as I stated in my statement earlier today. The amount budgeted of the $525,000, that's the impact we think we'll get in the Northwest Territories as a result of the $400 million the Member has highlighted in the federal budget address. So we'll get approximately $500,000 of that money flowing to the North based on the formulas used now. That won't affect the funding that was identified. That's existing year expenditures. The money that's identified here will be for 2004-2005. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I should just state that I was right next to Mr. Roland for the last four years arguing for fiscal prudence and I'm behind him all the way. It's just that when we have to deal with raising taxes and giving a little bit of a million dollar break on a $50 million windfall, I think we have to reconsider that.

Mr. Speaker, my next question is on the $3.5 billion contaminated sites budget and to hear that 65 percent or so will be coming to the Territories. Could the Minister advise this House as to any further information as to how that money will be spent? What do we have to do as a government and such? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my understanding from the work done on the federal budget is that $3.5 billion is over a 10-year period. Approximately 60 percent of that has been identified for the Northwest Territories. It will flow through the federal government. It is for the North. Let me correct that. It is for all of the North. So the Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut are included in that, it's not only for the Northwest Territories.

We have, however, been highlighted in some of the detail, that whatever comes to the Northwest Territories will go towards the Giant Mine contamination area and Port Radium area. That's the detail that we've seen. There has also been mention of DEW Line sites, but again, it's over a 10-year period. It's between all the northern jurisdictions. We're not sure of the detail of how it will flow and when it will start flowing, but that's the detail we do have. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Question 67-15(3): Highlights Of The Federal Budget

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 244

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question today could go to two different Ministers: the Minister of Transportation and the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , but I'll start out with the question being directed to the Minister of Transportation . During my Member's statement I spoke of the City of Yellowknife wanting to get an access road built from Highway No. 3 into the Kam Lake industrial park. I'm wondering, Mr. Speaker, where exactly does the Department of Transportation stand on this issue and what are the hold-ups? Thank you.

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Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod .

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Return To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the second part of the question is fairly easy to answer. Difficulty identifying funding and sources is always a concern. However, we have been working on a fairly detailed, comprehensive plan for the Yellowknife airport. As the Member knows, the Yellowknife airport is a very important airport in the Northwest Territories because of its location and its operational capacity and capability. We have had discussions regarding the desire to extend the road from Highway No. 3 to Kam Lake, which would go through the Yellowknife airport reserve that we have in place now.

We have concerns also that the development taking place in the airport reserve is not very structured at this point and we'd like to see that streamlined. We've had discussions with our federal counterparts. We've had discussions with the City of Yellowknife and we are in the process of putting together a report which I'm not sure we're in a position to table at this point, but I can get back to the Member with that information. Thank you.

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Return To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just wondering, given the fact that the Minister talks of the airport expansion being in the way of the access road being built, I'm wondering if maybe through you to the Minister, would the government look at perhaps making some land available a little further down Highway No. 3 to have this access road into the Kam Lake industrial park? Has that been on the table for discussion? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod .

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Further Return To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We've not had the opportunity to talk about the possibility of establishing or designing a road outside our reserve. I will commit to talking to my colleague, the honourable Minister of MACA . We're also, I should point out, having discussions with the city as to responsibility of the city and what their role is in this. I can provide that information. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just wondering, if both the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs and Minister of Transportation are going to be conducting some meetings and if this subject comes up to keep me apprised of that and perhaps they'll let me know when and where these meetings are taking place. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Transportation , Mr. McLeod .

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Further Return To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, we have done a considerable amount of work already. We have looked at some preliminary drawings and we have some designs that maybe at this point we would be able to share. I certainly will commit to keep the Member informed of our progress. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Question 68-15(3): Access Road Between Highway No. 3 And Kam Lake

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just want to reiterate some of the concerns raised by my constituents in regard to the new expansion of the Taltson hydro project being negotiated by this government. Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to ask the Premier what options and consideration will this government give to the residents who will be seeking compensation and benefits from the new hydro developments on the Taltson hydro system that this government is currently embarking on?

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Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the proposal to expand the Taltson is being proposed as a joint venture between the Akaitcho people, the NWT Metis and the Power Corporation. The partners have just begun to do consultations with the communities in the impacted area. Part of the consultation, certainly part of the consideration, is to hear what concerns people may have because of the impact of this expansion. My information from them is that they fully intend to look at the issue of impact benefits. Thank you.

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Return To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supplementary To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm just wondering if this government is going to develop any plans that would address the levels of compensation and benefits of residents, some of whom would be more directly affected than others by this hydro project? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 245

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The proponents of this very good project, in my view, for the region will certainly be taking that into consideration. The project, when it proceeds, will have to go through the environmental review process. As it does that, no doubt it will go to the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board, who have responsibility for looking at socioeconomic benefits. It's through that mechanism and that process that the impact benefits and socioeconomic benefits would be looked at. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supplementary To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Premier for that answer. I'm just on my last question assuming that this new expansion project gets the green light. I just wanted to ask the Premier , as with any other project of this magnitude there are always issues and effects that are overlooked or not taken into consideration during the initial negotiation process. I'm just wondering if the government has any strategy

whereas this government can assume full responsibility and give compensation to residents for adverse changes and effects that were not taken into consideration during the negotiation process, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier .

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Further Return To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, this project is proposed as a joint venture between the Akaitcho, the Metis and the Power Corporation. The government will not take on responsibility or liability for the impact of it, but we expect that the joint venture partners, if the project goes ahead, would be required to take on those responsibilities that assume the liabilities for the impact of this. The government's role in this project is to support it--I think it's good for the region, I think it's good for the Northwest Territories--and to ensure that it works to the benefit of most people.

We believe it's a good enough business deal that the proponents, if it moves ahead, will be able to take on the liability and responsibility. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Question 69-15(3): Taltson Hydroelectric Development

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary. Item 5, oral questions. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to see that the Minister of Justice sits today because his return to oral questions certainly puts my question into proper context. On October 30, 2003, an interesting bill called Bill C-48 was reviewed under the Natural Resources of Canada Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce. The intent of the bill was to attract industry on private lands and further allow deductibles by industry on Crown lands, Mr. Speaker. So my question is to the Minister of Finance .

Would he be willing to have his department do further studies to see if this form of taxation can be implemented in the Northwest Territories so that aboriginal groups or companies can use this type of taxation to invest into social and economic programs? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at the present time, though many of the aboriginal groups now are working towards self-government status, they do not have the ability for tax regimes at this time. There are ongoing discussions with the Department of Finance in the area of tax sharing of when these self-government agreements come into effect. So for the time being, there's not that avenue. As a government we're looking at all the options we can put forward in securing enough revenue to provide programs and services for the residents of the Northwest Territories.

So we will look at options brought forward and take them into consideration as long as we end up protecting our revenue base that we're operating from at this time. Thank you.

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Return To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Allen .

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, I'm quite surprised that the Minister won't consider introducing this type of methodology to try to eradicate some of these problems. As we see, direct monies are flowing to aboriginal groups in many instances, as well as northern institutions. I'm asking the Minister again, would he consider in the context of this question introducing such a taxation mechanism to assist this government to see if they can cost-share some of the many expensive programs that we're currently indentured to deliver? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 246

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the area of our tax bases, one thing, as I stated, is that we are in negotiations and discussions with aboriginal groups that are on the verge of having self-governments established in their jurisdictions. We are also discussing our tax-sharing arrangements and seeing how far we can do that. As a government, we are interested in hearing from the groups and Members of this Assembly to try and enhance our situation. A form of that can be tax incentives.

If we can use tax incentives to increase and stimulate investment in the Northwest Territories that's something we will look at, as long as we don't lose the revenue we have that would end up cutting our programs again, whoever would have that. If it's an aboriginal government we need to ensure they have enough revenue to continue those programs. As the GNWT we have to ensure we have a solid revenue base to continue the programs and services that we have.

We are looking and would look for options that would be available to us to try and enhance what we have and work with the aboriginal governments to ensure that they can provide programs and levels of service at the levels that would be adequate. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Allen .

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Recognizing that as an ongoing issue between the aboriginal governments and our territorial government still requires us to form some form of partnership arrangements with our aboriginal governments in support of trying to introduce taxation that would be beneficial to our residents. I'm asking again, why is it such a difficulty to see if they would support such an initiative that would be very cost beneficial to our territory?

I'm going to ask the Minister, in repetition to my first question, is he willing to have his department do some further studies to see if that can be applied across the Northwest Territories in the context of both private and Crown lands? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member has raised this issue prior and referred to Bill C-48 and, as a result, I had asked for that information and we'd brought it to the department to have a look at the scenarios that could come out of it. The initial scenarios would cost the government in its revenue base. We'd have to see what kind of development could occur. As I stated, the exercise we're going through and will continue to go through is that we don't have enough revenue at this time to maintain the level of services and programs that are existing. We're looking at options.

If there are initiatives that come forward that can protect the base as we have it or, in fact, aboriginal groups and governments as they become established could use those tools to enhance their level of services we'd gladly look at those. As I stated, we are in discussions now with the negotiators that are involved in the self-government discussions for their regions and looking at possible tax arrangements. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final Supplementary, Mr. Allen .

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for replying to my questions. Quickly, in a similar context, can you make a distinction between what the Tlicho taxation agreement applies to the overall process of what would be so different from what I am asking the Minister? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Tlicho agreement, number one, would have to be signed off and agreed to with the federal government. Once that is done, a number of things would happen and we are working already to ensure that when that timeline comes upon us we have agreements in place. There are discussions now on tax arrangements. Part of what would happen, and the scenario we see, is that we would...The federal government is involved in these discussions as giving tax room to the self-government group.

Once they have that tax room from a GNWT perspective, we would see potentially some tax room going to the aboriginal group as well. Along with that would come the expenditure that is being made on behalf of the citizens. So that tax room would come with responsibility and some burden with it. So there are negotiations going on now. There are ongoing discussions about net fiscal benefit for those groups, the same discussions we are having with Ottawa right now in trying to ensure that we end up getting an actual benefit.

So we are looking at options, trying to work with the groups to ensure that we have the appropriate levels of services and revenues to cover those services. If what Mr. Allen has discussed allows that to happen, we will be glad to do more work in that area. In our initial look at it, it doesn't seem that it would provide that for us at the existing time, but we will look at investigating it more if we can get more detail on how it would work. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Question 70-15(3): Self-government And Taxation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development . They concern the cleanup of the Giant Mine site. An issue that I believe has been out there since last year was a stall in discussions between our government and DIAND on responsibility for the surface cleanup at Giant Mine. I understand there are difficulties there with jurisdiction and potentially financing. Could the Minister advise on the status of our discussions with DIAND on responsibility for surface cleanup at Giant? Thank you.

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Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 247

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all let me say that I think this budget was very favourable in terms of contaminated sites. The last budget, if memory serves me, identified $500 and some odd million for cleanup of contaminated sites. It was short-term funding. I think this furthers that commitment. It is roughly ballpark. I think the same types of dollars per year, but it is a 10-year commitment, and there has been an indication that something like 60 percent of it will be spent in the North. I think that bodes very well for the NWT.

I think even in the backup to the budget an indication that Port Radium, Giant Mine and DEW Line sites have all been identified. I think that is good. The funding hurdles that we have had seem to be stabilizing. I think that this can be put to good use. It is important that we stay on the federal radar and make sure that our contaminated sites make it to the top of the priority list, and it sounds like that is taking shape.

We still do have some jurisdictional issues with DIAND related to the surface cleanup at Giant. We had discussions about a framework for this cleanup, and I think it has been DIAND's position in the past that they wanted to bundle surface and underground together. We have always felt that the two shouldn't be confused and that the federal government had exclusive responsibility

and jurisdiction for the underground liabilities. So we are still in those negotiations. We are spending money, GNWT money in this current year, on surface cleanup, but we continue to have this dispute over jurisdiction. Thank you.

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Return To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to explore this issue of jurisdiction a bit more. There was of course at some point a transfer from federal to territorial jurisdiction for environmental responsibility. Is there difficulty at that sort of large high policy level, or are we simply in dispute about a single site, a single issue cleanup? What is this jurisdictional problem, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will have to get more information and more detail for the Member as to the nature of the concerns and the specific hang-ups between our two governments. I do understand that with the transfer we acknowledge some responsibility for surface cleanup, but not the degree and the level to which we believe the federal government is trying to imply we have. So the dispute surrounds that. As far as specific information on the detail, I think we can discuss that further, but I will get more information.

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Further Return To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Miramar Mining Corporation, I think in a deal that worked I believe to their benefit as well to workers, continues to mine ore at the Giant property. It is milled at the Con property. I am wondering if the Minister could advise if Miramar is still planning on following their mine shutdown program and will they be stopping for good the mining of ore at the Giant property later this year? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We know that underground operations have ceased at Con, the mill is still operating, and as the Member has indicated ore is being processed there from Giant. Our indications were that that would cease at the end of '04, approximately. I don't think that we have any information to make us believe that plans have changed. I did notice that gold was over $400 U.S. the other day, and I am sure that these kinds of things factor into decisions, but I don't believe we have any official communication from the company telling us that their plans have changed. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the major, perhaps the major outstanding issue of the Giant property, Mr. Speaker, is the question of how we are going to be managing the underground vaults that are full of arsenic trioxide. The federal government has indicated that it wants to proceed with an underground freezing option, and I would like to ask the Minister from the GNWT side has this government considered that option and is it prepared to give it its full endorsement? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of RWED , Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you. After the issue has been studied for quite some time, and quite a bit of comprehensive discussion around this issue, we believe that given current technology, the in situ option that involves freezing is the safest and best, and most advantageous for us. So at this point we are supportive of that, but we don't believe that this is a walk away solution, and we are hopeful that future technology will allow...We are hopeful that at some point the material, the arsenic could be rendered inert or there would be some safe way to get it out of there and move it. At this point we believe that freezing is the safest option, so we are supporting it on that basis. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Question 71-15(3): Surface Cleanup At Giant Mine Site

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 72-15(3): Formula Financing And Revenue Sharing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Finance . During the course of discussion and debate about our budget over the last few days, and the days that will be ahead I am sure, we keep talking about the sustainability of our programs and services given our sources of revenue and our transfer from Canada. Mr. Speaker, if the Minister could be so succinct, what is it exactly that he sees at the end of the tunnel here? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel for us?

We have been grinding on Ottawa now for so long for a better deal, I am starting to lose faith in that concept. Is the answer ultimately resource revenue sharing, that being the new deal? If so, realistically how far away is it? Thank you.

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Question 72-15(3): Formula Financing And Revenue Sharing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 72-15(3): Formula Financing And Revenue Sharing

Question 72-15(3): Formula Financing And Revenue Sharing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 248

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the sustainability we have moved forward is something we have to deal with as a government, and have to deal with it within our existing envelope. There are ongoing discussions and will be ongoing discussions with the federal government around the adequacies of our formula tax effort, re-establishing our base. There are also discussions about royalty revenue sharing. That is an important picture, it is an important item, but right now as our strategy is laid out that is outside of what we can

count on for funds in the Northwest Territories. We see it as definitely an asset.

If we can get a fair royal revenue sharing deal with Ottawa, then we can start dealing with our own issues and enhance our programs. Right now, operating with what we have as a budget, we don't have enough, and the numbers that are laid out now are built into our budget, built in for years forward, and we still don't have enough, we are still going to have some deficits going forward. So we have to deal with our structural problem. That is why our reduction scenarios are there for the future years of $20 million and $20 million, and our increased revenues.

As we set out our fiscal strategy when we first got together in December we needed, just to get to our position of a $50 million deficit, we were counting on $10 million of our own source revenues, $10 million in reductions, and $30 million from the federal government. Through the process, the federal government hasn't put $30 million into the basket. So we were planning on coming back with a negative supp to just maintain what we put forward as a plan, another $10 million negative.

With what has happened now in the formula, this $50 million break that we have means that we won't have to come back with a negative supp, we will have a balanced budget, but our ongoing structural problem remains. We still are spending more money than we have in revenues, and right now, as I stated in my budget address, if we could see revenue flowing by 2007 that would be very optimistic. Thank you.

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Return To Question 72-15(3): Formula Financing And Revenue Sharing

Question 72-15(3): Formula Financing And Revenue Sharing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 249

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 72-15(3): Formula Financing And Revenue Sharing

Question 72-15(3): Formula Financing And Revenue Sharing

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 249

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speak