Debates of Nov. 13th, 1998

This is page numbers 407 - 438 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was nunavut .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Collective Bargaining Mediation

Northern Employment Strategy Benefits

NWT Court Facility

GNWT Report On The Affirmative Action Policy Review

Support For The Oil And Gas Industry

Charity Hockey Game

1999 And Beyond - Western Vision And Priorities

Importance Of Religious Education

Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Bottled Water Produced In Nunavut

Member's Statement 174:13(6): Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Benefits Of Natural Resource Development

Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Return To Oral Question 173-13(6): WCB Transition Plan Status

Return To Oral Question 175-13(6): Immigrant Investor Fund

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Collective Bargaining Mediation

Religious Education In Schools

High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

High Arctic Residents' Access To Doctors

Diavik Environmental Review

Hay Job Evaluation System

Challenge Of Federal Gun Control Legislation

Post Division Options For Wcb

Attracting And Retaining Teachers

Tabled Document 34-13(6): The Government Of The Northwest Territories Report On The Affirmative Action Policy Review

Tabled Document 35-13(6): Yellowknife Courthouse Feasibility Study - October 1998

Tabled Document 36-13(6): Business Development Fund Annual Report, April 1, 1997 To March 31, 1998

Extended Adjournment

Bill 14: Nunavut Judicial System Implementation Act

Bill 18: Access To Information And Protection Of Privacy Statutes Amendment Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine , Honourable Goo Arlooktoo , Mr. Barnabas , Honourable Charles Dent , Mr. Erasmus , Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Krutko , Mr. Miltenberger , Honourable Don Morin , Honourable Kelvin Ng , Mr. Ningark , Mr. O'Brien , Mr. Ootes , Mr. Picco , Mr. Rabesca , Mr. Roland , Mr. Steen , Honourable John Todd .

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Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 407

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Barnabas . Good morning. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd .

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Minister's Statement 72-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 407

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I have an emergency statement.

Mr. Speaker, mediation concluded yesterday without an agreement. The UNW wanted additional time to examine the effects of current evaluations on the rates of pay that were tabled on May 8, 1998. Mediation is scheduled to resume on December 12 and 13, 1998.

Mr. Speaker, a revised offer to settle the equal pay complaint was tabled as part of the collective agreement. The revised offer described how payments were calculated for each affected employee. Payments are calculated the same way for both current and former employees and include interest.

Mr. Speaker, the offer to settle the equal pay complaint was taken off the table when it became evident that an agreement would not be achieved at the bargaining table. We will be approaching the union within the next two weeks to discuss how we may be able to settle the complaint outside the collective agreement and collective bargaining process. We will share with the union the payments we are offering to each employee and ask the union to put the offer to employees for their consideration. Mr. Speaker, we believe that employees have the right to decide for themselves whether to accept the offer to settle the complaint.

Mr. Speaker, a revised offer was also tabled which should have addressed all the union's concerns with the gender-neutral Hay Job Evaluation System. The offer provided a fully independent and binding review process to resolve any disputes that employees may have with their job evaluations. We had hoped, Mr. Speaker, that the UNW would have seized this opportunity to conclude a collective agreement; and begin to work with managers and employees to make sure that any concerns with evaluations are resolved as quickly as possible.

Unfortunately, the PSAC spokesperson continued the rhetoric of criticizing the Hay Job Evaluation System as not being gender-neutral. The union's refusal to recognize that the Hay Job Evaluation System is gender-neutral appears to be the single issue that is holding up a collective agreement.

Mr. Speaker, this government will only conclude a collective agreement if both parties can agree that equal pay for work of equal value for the present and future is achieved. This government will not sign a collective agreement with this union if there is a potential for another equal pay complaint by the union that is a party to the collective agreement.

Mr. Speaker, this government has done everything it can reasonably do to achieve a fair collective agreement and get money in the hands of employees. The accountability now rests solely with the UNW to either conclude an agreement for ratification by employees or go without a collective agreement for the remainder of this fiscal year. Mr. Speaker, the mandate of this government for concluding a collective agreement expires in a few months. If there is no collective agreement, collective bargaining will start all over again sometime after April 1, 1999, with completely new mandates from the two respective territorial governments.

Mr. Speaker, mediation on December 12 and 13, 1998, will be our last opportunity to conclude a negotiated collective agreement in time to get money in the hands of employees before March 31, 1999. Mr. Speaker, employees must look to the UNW for their opportunity to decide for themselves whether to accept the offer for a collective agreement.

Mr. Speaker, mediation has been very helpful. We remain hopeful that the UNW will decide to conclude a collective agreement for employee ratification at the next round of mediation in December.

--Applause

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Minister's Statement 72-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 407

The Speaker

Thank you. Ministers' statement. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 73-13(6): Northern Employment Strategy Benefits

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 408

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform this Assembly that the Northern Employment Strategy has made a significant contribution to the creation of jobs for northerners and to the development of the Northwest Territories economy.

This two-year program was established in 1997/98. It was designed to support northern businesses and communities in employing summer students, youth, social assistance recipients and unemployed northerners. The NES also assists communities and regions to lead their own economic development initiatives and provides support to the private sector, which is the primary vehicle for economic development.

The $8.5 million provided to Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in 1998/99 was used to increase the budgets of four existing programs to $15.3 million. These programs are the Business Development Fund (BDF), the Grants to Small Business Program, the Community Initiatives Program and the Community Futures Program. For the first quarter of 1998-1999, program funding, along with client equity and other sources of financing, totalled $9 million.

Of the four programs just mentioned, the BDF is the principle source of job creation. As a result of the NES enhancement, BDF contributions during the first quarter of 1998/1999 totalled $1,364,000, resulting in 57 full-time and 157 part-time jobs. During the same quarter, $397,000 from the Grants to Small Business Program created 18 full-time and 85 part-time jobs in our NWT communities.

At this time, Mr. Speaker, I would also like to take a few moments to acknowledge two key groups:

-First and foremost, all individuals in the private sector that have partnered with us to create jobs for northerners.

-Secondly, all employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories who have provided assistance and support with the NES and job creation in the north.

Mahsi Cho.

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Minister's Statement 73-13(6): Northern Employment Strategy Benefits

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 408

The Speaker

Thank you. Ministers' statements, Mr. Arlooktoo .

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Minister's Statement 74-13(6): NWT Court Facility

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 408

Goo Arlooktoo

Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our Canadian system of government is made up of three branches of government. These branches are; the Legislative, the Executive and the Judiciary. Each of these branches is equally important. Each branch must be independent of the other to provide the checks and balances our system depends on. Each branch fulfils a critical role in protecting our rights and freedoms. The roles and responsibilities of these three branches of government can only be effectively carried out if they have the basic tools to get the job done. These basic tools include adequate and appropriate facilities in which to function.

For the judiciary, adequate and appropriate facilities mean facilities that are secure, easily accessible to the public, appropriate for the business to be done and visibly independent of the other branches of government. The value of independent or stand alone court facilities has been recognized across Canada as essential to public confidence in the independence of judges. Right now, our courts and judges work in inadequate space in an office building also occupied by the Department of Justice and the Chief Executive Officer of the NWT, the Commissioner.

The NWT is the only jurisdiction in Canada and probably North America and the British Commonwealth where the capital city does not have a stand alone courthouse.

Beyond the need to establish publicly the independence of the judiciary, is the simple fact that the current court facilities are woefully inadequate to meet the needs of the judicial process, the legal profession, the court clients and the public. A recent study prepared for the department of Public Works and Services, which I will be tabling later on this afternoon, makes it clear that no amount of renovations is going to deal with the problems. The time has come to seriously look at a new facility.

Mr. Speaker, with all of the other needs that government must meet, some may say that now is not the time to consider a new courthouse. I suggest that now is the time to address this requirement as our legislators are considering the direction and priorities of the new Western Territory. To enable the judicial branch of government to meet the needs of the public we must provide it with the basic tools.

Mr. Speaker, I will be including the requirement for a new courthouse in the Department of Justice Business Plan. The money has not yet been found to finance it, but as the business plan gets reviewed and debated through our budget approval process, I am sure it will receive serious consideration as our scarce resources get allocated. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 74-13(6): NWT Court Facility

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 408

The Speaker

Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin .

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Minister's Statement 75-13(6): GNWT Report On The Affirmative Action Policy Review

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 408

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Later today, at the appropriate time, I will table "The Government of the Northwest Territories Report on Affirmative Action Policy Review." This government is committed to creating and

maintaining a public service that is representative of the people it serves. Our Affirmative Action Policy supports that objective.

The present policy was put in place in 1989 and a review of its effectiveness has been done. The review included broad consultation with the public and with the public service. A number of recommendations were made and they are addressed in this report. Progress has been made toward the objective of a representative public service. At the same time, more work is needed in this area, including a revision of the policy itself. This work is ongoing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 75-13(6): GNWT Report On The Affirmative Action Policy Review

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 409

The Speaker

Ministers' statements. Item 3, members' statements. Mr. Krutko .

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Member's Statement 168-13(6): Support For The Oil And Gas Industry

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 409

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to know why there is there such disparity between the mining industry and the oil and gas industry in the Northwest Territories? Mr. Speaker, the oil and gas industry for the region I represent was a lucrative business for some thirty years until the downturn of the oil and gas industry. In the three years that we have been here, a lot of attention and resources have been spent in one particular sector.

The diamond sector, and the amount of resources that have been spent in that sector in regards to developing programs and services, building infrastructure and trying to offset the costs for the gold mines around Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, I would like to know why it is that there is such a disparity between the mining sector and the oil and gas sector when it comes to distributing resources and developing infrastructure in these industries?

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of regions in the Northwest Territories, besides the North Slave, that have potential. We have to strive for all the areas of the Northwest Territories to develop that potential. Especially when we are importing oil and gas from southern Canada to heat our homes. It is not a way to develop our economy.

Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of potential happening in the Northwest Territories, but we also have to show the oil and gas industry that we do support it and that we will put resources, people and infrastructure into that industry. In the region I represent, there is talk about the gas pipeline from Parsons Lake to Inuvik to run the generating facility there. There is also talk in the Deh Cho region of oil and gas development around Fort Liard. There is the Norman Wells pipeline, there is a lot of land that has been opened up for development, yet this government does not seem to show its support for that industry.

It is time that this government ensured that it was equitable in the way it distributed wealth in all industries. Thank you.

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Member's Statement 168-13(6): Support For The Oil And Gas Industry

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 409

The Speaker

Members' statements. Mr. Roland .

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Member's Statement 169-13(6): Charity Hockey Game

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 409

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by sending greetings to my wife and children.

--Applause

The Members of this Assembly that donned the blades this year included Minister Kelvin Ng , who was in the face of our opponents. Well, at least in the shoulder pads. Needless to say, he broke up many of the plays of the Inuvik Old-timers. This year, Mr. Speaker, a new addition to the MLA team was Minister Charles Dent . It has been said that it has been thirty years since he last wore hockey equipment, so he had to be re-educated on what piece of equipment went where. Once on the ice it did not take him long to want to come off the ice.

I must say that he did a remarkable job for someone who had not played the game in thirty years. He even had the opportunity to put the puck in the net on a couple of occasions, he just could not get the puck to stay on his stick long enough to get a shot off.

For the second time, Mr. Miltenberger strapped the blades on. I must say that he once again proved himself a valuable asset to the Sharks. This year he played the role of a stay-at-home defence. I think he did this just so he would not have to skate too much. I must say that he did a good job as a defensive defence man and I might add that he even scored a goal for us. It was not quite the sizzling shot we would expect from as brawny a defence man as himself, but it did have enough momentum to roll over the goal line.

Once again this year, I strapped on the blades for the MLA Sharks. This year, Mr. Speaker, I was determined to remove any of the doubt that I was not playing up to standard. I am sure both Mr. Ng and Mr. Miltenberger were questioning my commitment.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement 169-13(6): Charity Hockey Game

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 409

The Speaker

The Member for Inuvik is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do I have any nays? Mr. Roland , you have unanimous consent.

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Member's Statement 169-13(6): Charity Hockey Game

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 409

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and my colleagues. I am sure both Mr. Ng and Mr. Miltenberger were questioning my commitment to the MLA Sharks when I coughed up the puck in the first minute of the game and the Inuvik Old-timers scored as a result. However, I did recover to score a couple

of goals later in the game.

I must say that if it was not for our goaltender we would surely have lost. As the game went on some were questioning out loud, who is this guy, as save after save kept us in the game. I think I overheard someone ask, is that the dominator? Well, as the final buzzer sounded he removed his mask to reveal that it was none other than Pete Smith, long time resident of Inuvik, who on short notice came out of retirement to once again don the pads.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank all the Inuvik Old-timers, especially Louis Bryant and Denis Savoie, for making this an enjoyable event and the Inuvik Minor Hockey Association for organizing and for supplying the much needed youthful energy that helped us to victory. I would also like to thank the town recreation staff and the Town of Inuvik's mayor and council. As well, I would like to thank Northern Stores, Eskimo Inn and Originals on Mackenzie for supplying the prizes for the draws that took place. This year, Mr. Speaker, I am told that the charity game raised $280 for minor hockey in Inuvik.

Once again, I would like to thank the organizers and the players for making this an enjoyable event.

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Member's Statement 169-13(6): Charity Hockey Game

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 410

The Speaker

Thank you. Members' statements, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Member's Statement 170-13(6): 1999 And Beyond - Western Vision And Priorities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 410

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when we first gathered as the 13th Assembly we spent the first few days together and out of that gathering came the document, Agenda for Change, which was the basic framework and foundation that we moved forward with as an Assembly. With division upon us, and both east and west caucuses going their separate ways in the very near future, we will be setting our own path.

Mr. Speaker, the Western Caucus will be putting out a document called, 1999 and Beyond, which will, in fact, reflect and look back on the Agenda for Change, what we were able to accomplish, what we were not, issues still to be dealt with and basically, what direction we are going to recommend that the ship of state be left pointing in. That document has been many months in the works. There has been a lot of input from all the western MLAs and we hope that the people of new Western Territory will take it as a clear sign that planning for division and the new Western Territory is at hand. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 170-13(6): 1999 And Beyond - Western Vision And Priorities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 410

The Speaker

Thank you. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Member's Statement 171-13(6): Importance Of Religious Education

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 410

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is good to be making a statement again today. My colleagues have just shared that they were missing me. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak on the importance of religious education. When the new Education Act was introduced in 1995, the

section on spirituality and religion was one of the most controversial sections under the former act, there was a provision for religious instruction as part of the school program. This provision was removed in response to concerns that it violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

There was an overwhelming response from communities all across the north. They felt the new act would take away the opportunity to provide doctrine-based religious instruction through the schools. The legality of the issue prevailed and references to religion were removed and references to instruction in spiritual values and beliefs was put in place.

Concerned residents across the north addressed the Standing Committee on Legislation during the public hearings on the development of the new Education Act. The presentation by Reverend Robertson, the representative of the Anglican/Roman Catholic Christian Assemblies, Community Baptist and Lutheran churches in Inuvik, May 8, 1995, discussed the importance of religious education. The concern of the church members was not so much with what is included in the new act, but what has been left out. I quote:

"From the beginning, the Government of the NWT has always been concerned with the developing of the whole person; the mind, the body and the soul. This is evident in three ways: the rising academic standards; the inclusion of cultural programs; and the written provision for religious instruction in all schools, not just denominational schools. It is our concern that the written provision for religious instruction is not provided for in the new act and could lead to elimination of religious instruction in public schools."

Mr. Speaker, my constituency in Hay River is particularly concerned about the elimination of religious instruction in the public schools, specifically the Princess Alexandra and Harry Camsell schools. There is unwavering support from the Town of Hay River, the Hay River District Education Authority, the Hay River Ministerial Association and the parents of Hay River for the continuance of spiritual classes.

Mr. Speaker, I am only talking about one-half hour to forty-five minutes a week of spiritual education. No child would be required to attend or would have their beliefs offended in any way. The instruction will be in either the Catholic or Protestant faith, depending on what the parents want.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Member's Statement 171-13(6): Importance Of Religious Education

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 410

The Speaker

The Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Do I have any nays? Mrs. Groenewegen , you have unanimous consent.

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Member's Statement 171-13(6): Importance Of Religious Education

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 410

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The spiritual education program in Hay River has been a very successful program and is well accepted and desired by the

majority of the parents of the children in these two schools.

The old act was clear that religious education was allowed, but that no student would be forced to learn a religion contrary to his or her own beliefs. This intent remains clear in the new act, unfortunately the specific direction is lost and the decision for each community is left up to the Minister instead.

Mr. Speaker, the Hay River community is extremely concerned. The community needs to know, if indeed the spiritual education classes will be reinstated and if not, what recourse the community has. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Member's Statement 171-13(6): Importance Of Religious Education

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 411

The Speaker

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca .

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Member's Statement 172-13(6): Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 411

James Rabesca

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today Mr. Speaker, I would like to comment on the reaction that our vote last evening has produced. For years, Yellowknife has had the opportunity of being the capital of the NWT, as well as the centre for many mining companies. They have positioned themselves to the point that now it is difficult for any community to gain any economic benefits for their own residents.

Last evening we had a vote that passed by a slim margin, saying Yellowknife does not need any more seats in this House. The people in the gallery at that time felt betrayed and the MLAs in this House were very frustrated. I think the realization and perception is that Yellowknife is always getting everything, why do they need more representation in this House?

Currently, Yellowknife has four seats, unlike the rest of the ridings in the NWT these four seats really represent the whole of Yellowknife not just the single riding, as is the case in all the rest of the ridings. Why does this city need more?

Recently, my community and myself started lobbying for this road to resources to be built out of Rae-Edzo. Yellowknife came to the meeting saying we all needed to compromise to see this project through. I agree with this, however, for Yellowknife to compromise it means Yellowknife would end up with this road. The mayor of Hay River supported this road to start in Rae-Edzo and was shot down by a MLA in Yellowknife wondering how the mayor could even consider this idea.

In reality Yellowknife is a fine city and we are privileged in having this city represent us as the capital of the NWT and the new western Arctic. However, I feel that if the new western Arctic is to succeed and prosper, Yellowknife must realize there are many other communities and residents in the western Arctic and they must be heard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 172-13(6): Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 411

The Speaker

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Picco .

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Member's Statement 173-13(6): Bottled Water Produced In Nunavut

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 411

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, manufacturing of retail and wholesale goods in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut has been supported by this government and previous Assemblies. The private sector, which is the primary vehicle for new job creation and the main ingredient for a successful economy in the north, is worthwhile speaking about. The resource harvesting has been at the forefront of this type of economic activity. Hay River and Yellowknife have been the primary centres for the manufacturing of secondary goods in the Northwest Territories.

Over the past several years, local companies in Nunavut have begun to create, produce and manufacture retail goods for sale in the Northwest Territories and southern markets. The creation of world-class outerwear from seal and other northern furs has begun in earnest with Arctic Creations and DJ Sensations in Iqaluit. Frobuild Construction is producing building trusses, steel frame studs and sewage tanks, to name some of their products being manufactured in Iqaluit in the north.

Today, Mr. Speaker, I would like to introduce to the House a new product being produced and bottled in Iqaluit. Peterson & Auger have been producing Coca Cola products in the north for a long time and over the last two years have opened up a plant in Iqaluit. The company has seen the success bottled water has had in the market place and has invested considerable resources to develop a truly northern Nunavut bottled water, Arctic Chiller. This product is exceptional in its clarity and its purity. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Peterson & Auger and Mr.

Jack Walker for their confidence in Nunavut and Iqaluit. I wish them much success with Arctic Chiller and other locally developed and manufactured goods in Nunavut. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 173-13(6): Bottled Water Produced In Nunavut

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 411

The Speaker

Thank you. Again, to caution the Members regarding limiting what they can display in this chamber. It being Friday the 13th, I would like to ask that if Members wish to display that they also share with the rest of the Members in this chamber. At this time, I would like to recognize the former commissioner of the Northwest Territories, Mr. John Parker and his lovely wife, Helen.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 173-13(6): Bottled Water Produced In Nunavut

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 411

The Speaker

Welcome to the Assembly. Members' statements. Mr. Ootes .

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Member's Statement 174:13(6): Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 411

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last night we had the opportunity to debate and make decisions on the Boundaries Commission and I thought it worthwhile today to just review what transpired for those who did not have the opportunity to be here in the House last night. Like most

people, they watch it on television. I think it is important for me to just go through the process.

First, Members had the opportunity to make general statements. In following that, I introduced a motion to add two Members to this House for Yellowknife, as recommended in the Boundaries Commission Report. That motion was narrowly defeated, Mr. Speaker. Following that, Mr. Dent introduced a motion to add one Member to this House for Yellowknife and it was a compromise we felt could be accepted by Members. However, that motion was also narrowly defeated. To me it was a dark moment for the democracy of this House, Mr. Speaker. The logic and justification was there to proceed with the recommendations of the Boundaries Commission, I think that will prove to be true down the road.

For one Member it was a case of knocking Yellowknife. Knocking Yellowknife seems to be a sport. I think it has to stop. We do not knock other areas, we do not knock other constituencies. We have to stop that. We cannot relate a $1 million grant to Giant Mine as a contribution to Yellowknife. That is not a contribution to Yellowknife, it is to save our economy because it contributes $19 million to our economy if it continues,

whereas we lose that through taxation and so forth if we do not have that particular mining operation.

Upon defeat of that motion, Mr. Miltenberger introduced a motion to change the boundaries in the City of Yellowknife. Again, a very unwarranted move in my opinion. I was disappointed by this jury rigging approach. I said what I meant yesterday and I meant what I said. I am saying again today, a group of Yellowknife citizens are going to launch a court action and they will be proceeding with this to challenge what happened yesterday, Mr. Speaker. There will be a meeting for Yellowknife citizens who are interested next Wednesday evening at 7:00 p.m., the location is yet to be announced. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 174:13(6): Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 412

The Speaker

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Member's Statement 175-13(6): Benefits Of Natural Resource Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 412

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Tuesday evening I had a constituency meeting in Fort Simpson and one of the opportunities to address the citizens in Fort Simpson. I also represent five other communities and it is difficult to have one constituency meeting for everybody, so it takes awhile to get around.

Mr. Speaker, the concerns raised there were just general questions about what are we going to do for division and concerns with other issues like health and social services, the road and NAV Canada. One of the areas it is looking into the future is in development of the natural resources that we have in the Nahendeh constituency. There is a boom going on in the southwestern part of the Northwest Territories and the Fort Liard area. We have oil and gas, gas was discovered there last year. There are going to be about nine different wells drilled this year.

The concern there is that people in that area are saying we are overlooked because there are diamonds in everybody's eyes here and all our efforts seem to be focused on that. There should be more effort put into looking at developing our natural resources. We have forestry there as well, but the main thing in our area is tourism.

I think this is the concern that citizens in my constituency are concerned about, how can we best capitalize on what we have? We should try to do it the right way and try to keep most of the resources and revenues generated from our natural resources to flow into the north rather than have, them escape into the south. This is the position that was explained to me.

We have all these different natural resources and this government is making an effort to do all we can to capitalize on them, but I think the feeling there is that we have to put more effort and energy into working together with people in the community and this government to make sure we truly benefit from our natural resources in that area. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 175-13(6): Benefits Of Natural Resource Development

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 412

The Speaker

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Steen .

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Member's Statement 176-13(6): Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 412

Vince Steen

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the Boundaries Commission as well.

Mr. Speaker, we had the opportunity yesterday to amend the existing electoral boundaries. We did not do it. Mr. Speaker, we were advised, I believe very adequately, that the existing boundaries are not consistent with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I think many times I have heard in this House how we like to do things as northerners. We do not need anybody telling us what to do any more. I am a little disappointed that now we are going to be told, not advised, by the Supreme Court to amend the boundaries.

This, I feel, is almost a reflection of the fact that we have been under colonial rule so long that we cannot do anything here without having to be told to do it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Member's Statement 176-13(6): Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 412

The Speaker

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus .

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Member's Statement 177-13(6): Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 412

Roy Erasmus

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was going to make another statement today concerning another topic, but having heard several Members speak about the Electoral Boundaries Commission, I feel I have to make a comment as well. Mr. Speaker, following what happened yesterday, it is a natural reaction and quite easy to react angrily. However, I see that some good has come out of that discussion. For one thing, it was nice to see some Members working together again. Specifically, the Member for Hay River

working hand in hand with the Member for Tu Nedhe and the Member for Thebacha , which we have not seen for some time.

Mr. Speaker, I notice this morning the sky had not fallen in, the sun was still shining, so things are now out of our hands and we have to continue with the business of government. I would urge the Members to forget about what happened and let us continue on with our business of doing government. Thank you.

--Applause

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Member's Statement 177-13(6): Electoral Boundaries Discussions

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 413

The Speaker

Thank you. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Return To Oral Question 173-13(6): WCB Transition Plan Status

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 413

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two returns to oral questions, one asked by Mr. Ootes on November 6, 1998, with respect to the WCB Transition Plan Status.

Background

Mr. Ootes was referring to a letter from the NWT Construction Association dated October 16th to the Chairperson of the WCB requesting, among other things, an update on the value of the accident fund and the reserves, given the downturn in financial markets.

At December 31, 1997, the total reserves of the Workers' Compensation Board were $50.7 million. The book value of investments on which the surplus is based was $206.8 million, and the market value was $248.9 million. These values are reported in the 1997 Annual Report.

Current Status

In the third quarter of 1998 (July - September) world markets went through the worst period for investments in many years. In Canadian dollars, the TSE 300 index lost 20.5 percent of its value, the S & P (US) index lost 6.1 percent, and the EAFE index (non-Canadian and US) lost 11.0 percent.

In spite of these losses, the market value of the accident fund investments, at September 30th, is actually higher than at last year-end, at approximately $255.2 million.

The first thing to note about the WCB's investment is the conservative nature of the board's investment policy. As only 40 percent of the funds are invested in equity markets, the exposure to the third quarter downturn was limited. The return on fixed income investments, which make up most of the board's portfolio, was positive for the third quarter.

The second thing to note is the limited impact on the surplus. The surplus is based on the book value of the investments, which is much lower than the market value and much less sensitive to market swings. Most of the impressive gains of the last four years on the board's funds are deferred to future years.

At present, the board is not expecting its total reserves for 1998 to decline from 1997 values due to investment returns. Thank you.

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Return To Oral Question 175-13(6): Immigrant Investor Fund

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 413

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. O'Brien with respect to the Immigrant Investor Fund.

Both funds have been very successful to date in raising capital for investment. The Aurora Fund (1996) has signed 139 prospective investors. The Aurora Fund (1996) had closings and has issued notes to 66 investors. This gives the fund over $15 million, $10.5 million of which is available for investment in eligible NWT businesses.

As I previously reported to you January 27, 1998, $7.8 million was loaned to seven northern projects. On August 28, 1998, the fund's board approved loans for another six projects totalling $14.4 million. These loans are in the process of being finalized with the borrowers. These projects are:

1. NWT Cooperative Development Fund - for the purchase of fuel delivery vehicles for domestic fuel delivery in communities.

2. The Shoe Store Ltd. - for the purchase of two aircraft.

3. NWT Development Corporation - to broaden its investment capabilities in, and support to, eligible NWT businesses.

4. Yellowknife Golf Club - to expand the golf course facility to an 18-hole layout.

5. Regency International Hotels Limited - to renovate, upgrade and refurbish the Explorer Hotel.

6. 2822636 Canada Incorporated (operating as Continental Helicopter) - for the purchase of a helicopter.

To date the fund has approved over $22 million in loans. These loans have met the fund's goals of maintaining and creating employment and providing alternate financing to businesses in the Northwest Territories.

The fund continues to explore lending opportunities with northern businesses. The fund has presently lent the maximum permissible amount under its offering memorandum until further investors transfer their full subscription amounts. As further funds become available, we will be concluding lending arrangements with other potential borrowers who have indicated an interest in a loan from the Aurora Fund.

The supply of money to the fund is dependent on the rate at which subscribing investors transfer the full value of the note proceeds to the fund. Once an investor transfers the full $250,000 and the note is issued (termed a "closing"), the fund has only 75 days to lend the money. If that time limit is exceeded, the GNWT could be prohibited from launching further funds until the violation has been corrected.

As I stated in January, I am pleased with the success to date of these two funds. I am confident that they will continue to be successful and that the benefits provided by these funds will be felt for many years to come.

--Applause

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Return To Oral Question 175-13(6): Immigrant Investor Fund

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 414

The Speaker

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Krutko .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 414

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Pat Thomas with NWTTA. Thank you.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 414

The Speaker

Welcome to the Assembly. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ootes .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 414

Jake Ootes

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to recognize your earlier recognition of former Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, John Parker. He is a former Mayor of Yellowknife, a geologist, a person who is very well respected around the north. I do not know who is there with him, I cannot see from this side. I believe it is his wife, Helen. She also has had a very distinguished service in the north and I would like to thank them both for being here. Thank you.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 414

The Speaker

Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is concerning the elimination of religious classes in both Princess Alexandra and the Harry Camsell schools in Hay River. During the review of committee report 11-12(7) and report on the review of Bill 25, Education Act, in June 1995, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment stated as an Ordinary Member referring to the Yellowknife Catholic School. Just for the record, I want to say that I strongly support their right to offer Catholic based education.

Given the Minister's previous support for the right to offer spiritual education, will he consider allowing Hay River to reinstate a spiritual education program in the Princess Alexandra and Harry Camsell schools? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

The Speaker

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Education Act sets out a clear method whereby spiritual education may be offered in the schools. That is why there is establishment in a community of a public denominational school district or the district education authority. Mr. Speaker, the answer is yes, but it would have to follow the rules that are set out in the Education Act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, under

section 77 of the Education Act, subparagraph two reads, a district education authority may, in accordance with the directions of the Minister, provide for instruction and discussion in spiritual values or beliefs in a manner that is respectful of the spiritual values or beliefs of all the students. It is clear that the intent of the new Education Act that no student would be forced to learn a religion contrary to his or her own beliefs. However, can the Minister clarify who would be defined as all the students? Does this mean all the students in that particular class? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

The Speaker

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I understand it, Mr. Speaker, an

interpretation of that

section would mean that the definition might actually go beyond the members of that classroom, and would mean that any course included in the hours of instruction, but it would have to be respectful of all students. That means not just in that classroom but all the students. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the Hay River District Education Authority passed a motion in support for the position of the Hay River Ministerial Association to continue spiritual instruction. Will the Minister consider this request and reinstate optional spiritual instruction in our elementary schools as soon as possible?

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Supplementary To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 414

The Speaker

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am bound to uphold the laws of this jurisdiction. I can only approve courses of instruction that fit within the definition of the Education Act. I do not have the authority to bend the rules. I think it is worth pointing out, Mr. Speaker, it is my opinion that religious instruction can be provided in the school, however, it cannot be considered as part of the course of instruction.

Our Education Act sets a minimum number of hours that students must attend school and for those hours there are certain requirements for programs that meet the course of instruction. There are ways in which religious matters can be discussed during those courses of instruction, but not how it has been done in the past in Hay River. That does not stop them from using school facilities outside the hours of instruction to provide the courses they have been, if that is the wish of the community. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

The Speaker

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Supplementary To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is an area of much concern in Hay River and I understand that the Minister of Education will be in Hay River on Monday to discuss other issues. I would like to ask him if he would commit today to meet with the members of the ministerial association and with parents of students who are concerned about this issue. Could he set apart some time while he is in Hay River on Monday to meet face to face with these individuals and discuss this matter? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

The Speaker

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My office has already agreed to a meeting with Reverend Wallington. I believe that has, in fact, already been set up. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Question 214-13(6): Religious Classes In Hay River Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Picco .

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Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to address some questions to Finance Minister , Mr. Todd , of his emergency statement made earlier. Mr. Todd stated that pay equity is now off the table and indeed states the impasse since April has been and was the government's adamant conclusion of pay equity during negotiations. Can the Minister elaborate on the new focus the government will take on the pay equity complaint? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

The Speaker

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to remind everybody that we put $40 million in the budget to take care of pay equity and the new collective agreement. It was at the UNW's insistence and some Members of this House that we take pay equity off the table so we have taken it off the table. I think that is an absolute tragedy, quite frankly. That $25 million retroactivity and the $9 million of ongoing salaries that could go to our employees are simply not going to get. The UNW is not prepared to conclude an agreement with us on pay equity.

Therefore, it is going to end up in the courts for the years to come and two new governments, as I said in my correspondence, are going to have to deal with that issue.

Yet this government has committed clearly the funds to do it, we want to put the money in the hands of our employees where it rightly belongs, we are certainly not going to take responsibility for it not going forward. That clearly lies, in my opinion, in the hands of the UNW executive, I fundamentally believe this issue is being driven by PSAC in Ottawa. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that was a great speech but did not answer my question. According to Mr. Todd 's emergency statement he says we will be approaching the union within the next two weeks to look at how we can settle the pay equity complaint. My question was, what are the focuses of those negotiations? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

The Speaker

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 415

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I always make great speeches. What we are trying to conclude right now is the collective bargaining process. As I indicated in my emergency statement today, the UNW needs some more time to evaluate the Hay Plan Job Evaluation System or go back to the table in early December with the mediator. Hopefully, we can get that cleared up. My preference would be now, as it was then and will be in the future, that the UNW will come to their senses, sit down with us and negotiate pay equity.

But, I have taken it off the table because that was what some people requested, some Members in this House asked me to do and that was what the UNW has asked. We have done what we have been asked.

My preference would be to negotiate the settlement. Again, to put money into the hands of our employees. I suggest to you today that the agenda on pay equity is not being driven by northern peoples, it is clearly been driven by PSAC out of Ottawa who has a far larger agenda with the federal government. The tragedy of it is, our employees do not get that money that rightly belongs to them that we have in the budget.

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Further Return To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco .

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Supplementary To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I always thought Mr. Todd had so many good friends in Ottawa. Mr. Todd said in his emergency statement that December 12th and 13th, Mr. Speaker, will be the last opportunity to conclude and negotiate the collective agreement. I wonder can the Minister explain why only two arbitrary days have been set aside to settle this collective agreement after negotiations have been ongoing for nine months? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have many good friends in Ottawa, it is just, Mr. Speaker, the reality is that we had agreed to a two-day session. If it requires more to get an agreement, that is what we will do. We are in mediation right now, we made an effort. I have appealed in this House, I do not know how many times, to the UNW to let the membership vote on the collective agreement that we put forward which, I want to remind everybody, puts more money in the hands of our employees. It is beyond me, Mr. Speaker, that we have not been able to accomplish that.

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Further Return To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker

Thank you. Just to remind again to the Members regarding the rules of when a Member does answer the questions. Mr. Todd , in your first sentence, you did answer your question. I will remind the Ministers that once you answer the question, I will say that question is answered. Mr. Picco , your final supplementary.

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Supplementary To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again referring to Mr. Todd 's emergency statement this morning. He continues in questions to the answers and again in his statement to say that PSAC is running the show, and indeed that the UNW is under the guide of PSAC from Ottawa. I am wondering what substantiation Mr. Todd has to make these accusations?

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Supplementary To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker

Can I ask the Member to rephrase his question. You cannot accuse another Member in the House. Rephrase your question, Mr. Picco , please.

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Supplementary To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

Edward Picco

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Finance elaborate on his emergency statement where he says that, indeed, it is PSAC that continues rhetoric of criticizing the Hay Plan Job Evaluation Pay System and their substantiation of same? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, let us be clear that the PSAC Ottawa representative on the bargaining team, is still expressing concerns that the Hay Plan Job Evaluation System is not gender-neutral. The real frustrating and confusing thing for me, Mr. Speaker, is I am advised that PSAC itself uses the Hay Plan Job Evaluation System to determine gender-neutral job evaluation.

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Further Return To Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Question 215-13(6): Pay Equity And Collective Bargaining

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko .

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Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Resources, Wildlife, and Economic Development , Mr. Kakfwi , in regard to my Member's statement about the disparity between the oil and gas industry, the mining industry, especially in relation to diamonds. A lot of potential we have in the north, especially the region where I come from in regard to the Parsons Lake pipeline project which hopefully will have a go this winter. Also, there is talk about the oil companies from Calgary, such as Shell Oil, have shown an interest in the Beaufort Sea again, and also the activity happening in the Mackenzie Valley, especially in the area of Sahtu and also the Deh Cho.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is what is his department doing to ensure that the oil and gas industry receives a similar treatment as they are in regard to the diamond industries when it comes to meeting with the oil and gas companies, and, also, developing infrastructure and joint venture and also trying to entice oil and gas industries back into the north? What his department doing to ensure that there is a fair distribution amongst industries? Thank you.

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Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

The Speaker

Thank you. The Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , there were a lot of questions there, I could not count how many. Would you like to respond?

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Return To Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 416

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the area of diamonds I think our government, from the onset, had felt it had not only territorial obligation, but a national obligation, as well, to make the federal government aware of the enormous potential that it had bypassed by giving a licence prematurely to BHP. We have done a lot of work to make sure that some of the jobs, some of the economic opportunities that seem to have almost bypassed us were in fact realized. We take that approach, as well, in the oil and gas business.

We have been working for the past couple of years with the federal government, for instance, to reduce the tariff from the Norman Wells pipeline, so that all companies will find it more economical to explore for oil and gas further up the Mackenzie Valley because it becomes economical for them to transport their product down that line. We have been working with the Sahtu communities and communities in the Deh Cho because the federal government has issued licences and oil companies have bid on those licences to make sure that they come to agreements: access agreements, benefit agreements.

Those have been signed in Fort Liard, Fort Good Hope, Tulita and Norman Wells. We have been working very hard with those communities. The focus has not been just on diamonds, we have a division that is created in the department strictly to deal with oil and gas.

We have worked with the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation recently in their bid to try to find the strongest economic means of initiating work in the Darnley Bay area. I was in Europe, I cut the trip short by a day to return in order to get organized and do a Senate presentation in support of the Inuvialuit initiative. As a government we are taking a very balanced approach to making sure that everything is done to get into the diamond business, and to approach in a balanced way that benefits everybody, that all the economic opportunities are seized at the onset and that development proceeds as it should.

We are also taking the view that we have to go periodically to Calgary. I have done that on a number of occasions over the past year and a half. I have gone to Fort Liard once in the spring on the request of the community to help them seize opportunities. They have been seizing opportunities. The MLA asked yesterday if I would return to Fort Liard. We have agreed to a community visit next Friday. Where communities request it and at every possible occasion, we are working as a government to do everything we can to make sure oil and gas companies return to the north, and to find an environment that is receptive and conducive for them to operate and explore economically. Thank you.

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Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko .

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Supplementary To Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will try to keep this question as simple as I can. Can the Minister give me an idea how much money this government has spent on studies and funds that have been allocated to the different sectors between the oil and gas sector and the mining sector?

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Supplementary To Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, we had full intention of doing that. Over a year and a half ago we presented to the Legislature an economic framework. That framework was intended to show, as transparently as possible, what type of resources this government provides for the different sectors of the economy how much money we put into hunting and trapping, into tourism, into the lumber industry, into oil and gas, into diamonds and mining. I would be prepared to present such a document to the Members. It would take some work but that was the intent, so I will ask the department to provide it to the Members. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Question 216-13(6): Oil, Gas And Mining Industries

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to address my questions to the Minister of Finance . It is in regard to his two part Minister's statement of collective bargaining mediation. Mr. Speaker, this issue is of significant concern to many people in my constituency, and I am sure across the Northwest Territories, to the extent that, as you will recall, I tabled a petition in this House recently. Could the Minister elaborate on the issue of a gender-neutral evaluation system being the only issue left that is holding up the collective bargaining process?

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Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker

The Minister of Finance , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have said on many occasions, there was a difference of opinion between the parties as to whether the Hay Plan Job Evaluation System is in fact gender-neutral. In my response to another question asked by Mr. Picco , I find it somewhat ironic that the PSAC representative on the bargaining team is the one holding up the argument that it is not gender-neutral when PSAC, I am advised, uses the same Hay Plan Job Evaluation System to determine gender-neutrality in their organization.

If that is the only issue, then the UNW should get control of the process, should come to an agreement on the 12th and 13th of December, put it out to its membership which it rightly should do anyway, to vote on whether they agree or disagree with what we have presented on the table.

I want to say again, Mr. Speaker, if I may, that we want to put more money into the hands of our people and provide a significant change to the way in which we compensate many of the female gender in our civil service. Thank you.

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Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this issue, it would appear to me anyway, and I would like the Minister to clarify, is not as straightforward as it would seem. The pay equity is off the table, but that whole issue of pay equity is that there is no gender-neutral job evaluation system. If in fact there is an agreement in the collective agreement and they accept the Hay Plan Job Evaluation System as being gender-neutral, will that not have a direct effect on the pay equity issue?

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 417

The Speaker

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Yes, my honourable colleague is exactly correct. If we accept and go out there to allow our membership as they rightly deserve, the right to vote on this new collective agreement, which does incorporate the Hay Plan Job Evaluation System, and bring about a gender-neutral workplace, more money in the hands of both our female and male employees; it should, in fact, at the end of the day, bring about the result of the pay equity issue because that is really what it is all about. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger .

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When we talked about this issue a number of weeks ago, there was a certain amount of optimism that there would be money in the hands of the employees by Christmas. Looking at these dates chosen of December 12th and 13th when mediation will continue, can the Minister elaborate if there any hope, no matter how faint, that in fact there may be some money in the hands of employees by Christmas.

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

John Todd

Keewatin Central

The simple answer is no. At this late juncture, unfortunately, it certainly was the desire and the intent of this ministry and the Cabinet to do that. Unfortunately, there were further delays as I have indicated in my emergency statement and what we are now shooting for is to try to get some result before March 31, 1999, so that it does not get encumbered, if you want, with the division of the territories, and we can come to some agreement and provide some stability and provide more money to our employees. I cannot say it any other way.

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Further Return To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

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Supplementary To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I am not a lawyer and I was not an expert in this field, but when I read the notes earlier this last month, I am advised that this could be a very complicated legalistic debate at the end of the day. I cannot set a day unequivocally that we would not be able to deal with retroactivity.

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Further Return To Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Question 217-13(6): Collective Bargaining Mediation

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Roland .

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Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question would be directed to the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment . Mr. Speaker, following the Member for Hay River on the issue of religious education in schools, this issue has been brought up a number of times in my constituency as well, and recently at the Beaufort Delta Leaders Conference it was brought up again in the area of having religious education in the classroom.

Now we have heard the Minister say that outside of normal hours they can do that, but I want to refer back to when the committee went around regarding the education bill amendments. When this issue was brought up, a number of clergies came forward to me saying that they were told that they would still be provided the opportunity to continue under local programming which is spelled out in the Education Act. Now in fact it is being said that, fine you can do it, but after hours. Could the Minister confirm the fact that local programming is all outside of school hours or is it part of the school hour programs or functions? Thank you.

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Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I have said previously to the Member for Hay River , religious education of a denominational nature must be provided outside of the hours of instruction within the school. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 418

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Could the Minister inform us that at the time the public hearings were held, were there commitments made

to those that were concerned raising the issue of religious instruction in school, if they were at that time told that they would still be able to continue if the DEA, or at the time it would be a board of education, agreed to it? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

I am sorry, Mr. Roland , I have to rule the question out of order. This happened during the 12th Assembly, not this Assembly. Mr. Roland , supplementary.

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Supplementary To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister inform us, if the district education council or district education authority of any region or community put forward and agreed with the notion of religious instructions once again being held in classrooms during the school hour and if time was available, would he support that initiative? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have stated, the Education Act is quite fair. As I understand, it was drawn up the way it was because of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Religious instruction can be offered in the schools, if that is the wish of the local community, but must be outside the hours of instruction. The hours of instruction are stipulated within

section 126 of the Education Act. National instruction in a religion or religious instruction must be provided outside of those hours of instruction. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Roland .

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Supplementary To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Floyd Roland

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Under the issue of the Education Act and district education authorities and local programming, the Minister informed that under the act as he interpreted it, it could not be done, but if a district education or authority were to receive a different

interpretation would the Minister then review his decision? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In this case I would rely on the Department of Justice to provide the department with an

interpretation as the final arbiter in this regard. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Question 218-13(6): Religious Education In Schools

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. Ningark .

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Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again I report back to the Kitikmeot Leaders Forum that I attended about less than a month ago. My question is directed to the Premier . The Kitikmeot Leaders Forum recognizes the importance of search and rescue throughout the Kitikmeot region. We also understand, Mr. Speaker, the need for good secure communications in times of emergency. My question to the Premier is, will the Premier direct his staff to communicate with the Kitikmeot Leaders office in Cambridge Bay to perhaps work together with them to access a high frequency radio for the Kitikmeot regions to support use of search and rescue? Thank you.

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Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

The Premier , Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Member raising the issue and I appreciate the concern. I, myself, have had the opportunity to travel out on the land. Communication is important. I will ask the right department to contact the leadership in your region to discuss the issue with them to see if we can come to some agreement, and how we can work together to solve that problem. Thank you.

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Return To Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark .

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Supplementary To Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Premier for the positive response. Will the Premier now communicate with the right department within a few days? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Next week. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Question 219-13(6): High Frequency Access In Kitikmeot

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

Oral questions. Mr. O'Brien .

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Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in a letter that I received yesterday from the Keewatin teachers, a number of concerns were raised regarding loss of VTAs, the private accommodation allowances, some housing issues and classroom sizes. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Education is, can the Minister provide any assurances that these benefits will be reinstated or at least equivalent initiatives be implemented to make up the shortfalls? Thank you.

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Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 419

The Speaker

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, I could not provide any assurances of the sort. The benefits the Member refers to are all subject to the collective bargaining process and totally outside the responsibility of my department. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien .

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Supplementary To Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, another issue that was raised was regarding the housing situation for the teachers. The fact that there are very few houses that are available for rent and if they are, the extreme cost of these houses for rent. Are there any initiatives underway to alleviate the housing situation that the teachers face in the communities?

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Supplementary To Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

The Speaker

Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my department continues to work with FMBS on a case by case basis as we find instances that need to be addressed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

The Speaker

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. O'Brien .

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Supplementary To Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Question 220-13(6): Benefits For Keewatin Teachers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 420

Kevin O'Brien

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we all know, teachers work long and hard hours and have various responsibilities. Can the department provide any assurances that the records of employment remain intact after transition or division occurs?

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