Debates of Dec. 3rd, 1992

This is page numbers 251 - 272 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was housing .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

New Home Ownership Programs

Long Term Staff Housing Strategy

Launch Of Literacy Council Book

The Burning Of Nanook School In Apex

Dogrib Nation Comprehensive Land Claim

Development Of Mineral Production

Clean Up Of D.e.w. Line Sites

Difficulties Faced By Trappers

Member's Statement Regarding Today's Youth

Member's Statement Regarding The Dedication Of N.W.T. Power Corporation Employees

Department Of Government Services And Public Works In Sanikiluaq

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Responsibility For Petroleum Product Division In Sanikiluaq

Funding For Youth Organizations To Attend Meetings

Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Water Quality In Mackenzie River

Payment For Study Undertaken By B.r.c.

Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Continuation Of Environmental Assessments

W.C.B. Contribution Of Funds To Carry Out Survey

Change Season On Polar Bears To Earlier Date

Invasion Of Privacy By Social Workers

Money Spent For Legislative Assembly Furniture

Financial Assistance For Trappers

Consideration Of No Tax Increases

Committee Report 4-12(3): Standing Committee On Finance, Review Of The 1993-94 Capital Estimates For The N.W.T. Housing Corporation

Bill 9:

An Act To Amend The Liquor Act

Bill 10:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Appearance Of Languages Commissioner Before Committee Of The Whole

Bill 13: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92

Bill 14: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1992-93

Bill 13: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92

Bill 14: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1992-93

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Mr. Bernhardt , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Nerysoo , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Dennis Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Mr. Todd , Hon. Tony Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 251

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. I would like to recognize in the gallery a northern studies class from Sir John Franklin High School, and their instructor George Diveky.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Mr. Morin .

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Minister's Statement 18-12(3): New Home Ownership Programs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 251

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to announce today to the Legislative Assembly and to the people of the N.W.T., that the new home ownership programs will be offered by the N.W.T. Housing Corporation in 1993-94.

These new home ownership programs have been developed in response to public concerns about the Home ownership Assistance Program, or H.A.P. Although over 1,500 families have become home owners through H.A.P. since it was first introduced in the early 1980s, H.A.P. catered to a specific segment of the population. During the last few years qualified applicants became harder to find, as most people who were interested in the program and could qualify for it had already been served.

In addition, concerns were expressed about the eligibility criteria for H.A.P. which required clients to contribute sweat equity. Many people interested in home ownership are unable to help build their own homes due to a lack of skills. Others are employed full-time and cannot take time off to build their house. Still others, at both ends of the income scale for H.A.P., did not qualify because they earned too little or too much.

These concerns are long-standing. In its 1985 report to this House, the Legislative Assembly's Special Committee on Housing made several recommendations on the corporation's home ownership programs. I am pleased to inform the Members that these recommendations are now being addressed in the new programs I am announcing today.

The Special Committee on Housing was concerned that people in the communities were not aware of all the options available to them under the corporation's home ownership programs. The application process was complicated and clients sometimes did not understand the full implications of what they were getting into. The new home ownership programs are based on an expanded and improved information and counselling service which will be available to any community resident interested in finding out whether home ownership might be the right choice for his or her family.

This one stop shopping approach will assess each potential client's needs and current situation. Full information on all options within the client's income are then reviewed. A wide range of information will be provided, including financial planning, mortgages, acquiring land, planning for construction and maintaining and operating a home.

I want to emphasize the personal nature of this approach, because it symbolizes what we are trying to accomplish through the new programs. The way in which these programs are delivered to the people is very important. People who have never owned their own home will be given the opportunity to get counselling on what is involved in assuming the responsibilities and independence of home ownership. There should be no surprises for the client once he or she enters a specific program. Clients need to succeed at home ownership, and that means spending more time up front with some clients than we have spent in the past.

The information and counselling service is also important because the new home ownership programs will require clients to pay back some of the assistance they receive, in accordance with their income, over a fifteen year period.

The new programs all come under the umbrella of access to home ownership, a name that emphasizes the wider range of programs that will be available to the public.

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Minister's Statement 18-12(3): New Home Ownership Programs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 251

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Excuse me, Mr. Morin , would you slow down a little bit for the benefit of the interpreters. Continue please, Mr. Morin .

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Minister's Statement 18-12(3): New Home Ownership Programs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 251

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The new programs have expanded eligibility criteria so that people at both ends of the income scale can now get into a program. However, the new programs will require repayment from all clients. The amount of repayment is based on the client's income. If income is low, repayment is low. If the client can afford to pay more, his repayment is higher.

I want to emphasize one very important point: even with repayment, all clients will still be eligible for some level of subsidization.

The amount of the subsidy will vary with the client's ability to repay, but there will still be a subsidy for every client. It is only fair to expect people to pay back part of the cost of the house they are going to own, especially since the repayment is

geared to income.

Another very important argument for the introduction of repayment is the fact that C.M.H.C. has served notice that it is not prepared to continue cost sharing home ownership programs with us, unless we gear the program to those most in need, and collect repayment in accordance with clients' ability to pay. Loss of C.M.H.C. funding would reduce the number of units we could deliver. Maintaining the status quo is not an option.

Another benefit of home ownership is the positive impact it has on local economies. In many communities the introduction of home ownership units is creating a private housing market for the first time. The new home ownership programs actively promote and encourage private sector development, by providing more ways for people to become home owners. This is good for communities because private home ownership creates a demand for local services such as plumbing and mechanical services and other trades, and for the materials that are needed to operate and maintain a home.

Over time, with the efforts the corporation is making to foster private sector development through its rental programs, I am confident that we will see the growth of small businesses in communities to meet the needs of private home owners and the corporation alike.

The access portfolio will offer a number of home ownership programs, including:

The owner build program is designed for clients who want to help build their units. By contributing sweat equity, clients can reduce their repayment obligation.

The lease to purchase program is designed for clients who are unable to help build their units. The unit is leased for a minimum of two years to give the client the opportunity to experience home ownership on a trial basis. Over the two year period the client assumes the costs and maintenance responsibilities of home ownership. After the two year period the client may purchase the unit. Repayment will depend on the client's income.

The maintenance program and subsidy are available to both owner build and lease to purchase clients. Annual checks of the units will be completed by the N.W.T. Housing Corporation, with the client. The client will be counselled on essential maintenance tasks and how to get them done. Low income clients will be eligible to apply for a maintenance subsidy which will take the form of a rebate for actual approved maintenance costs incurred.

The option of the sale of housing packages is designed to make the complete housing packages available to residents of all highway communities. Clients will be able to buy a proven, completed Arctic housing package from the N.W.T. Housing Corporation. Eligible clients may apply for the corporation's interim financing program to help pay for that package.

With regard to mortgage lending programs, in the past, people living in smaller communities have had difficulty getting conventional mortgage financing from chartered banks. We are working with the banks to have the corporation act as a go between for the clients and the banks to expand access to bank financing in smaller communities. The government may have to provide mortgage guarantees to the banks to make this work. If we are unable to conclude the negotiation with the banks successfully, the corporation will establish a revolving fund to provide mortgage loans as a lender of last resort.

To be eligible the clients must have enough income to qualify for a mortgage loan but be unable to obtain one from a bank or from C.M.H.C.

Alternative housing programs provide basic houses for households that are not eligible or do not have access to public housing in their community. It is for low income seniors who prefer a more traditional lifestyle.

In addition to the new home ownership program, the N.W.T. Housing Corporation will continue to offer its Interim Financing Program, Emergency Repair Program, Senior Citizens' Home Repair Program and Home Improvement Program. Other housing program options are also being investigated.

I strongly encourage all people interested in finding out more about home ownership to attend the information sessions on the new programs that will be held in all N.W.T. communities over the next two months.

We expect to cost share the new home ownership programs with the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation to the greatest extent possible under our reduced funds and levels. Members will recall my earlier announcement about the severe federal funding cuts. We will reduce C.M.H.C.'s contribution to new social housing construction in the N.W.T. by 59 per cent over the next two years.

Our efforts to have this funding restored are ongoing. I travelled to Ottawa last week to meet with the Honourable Elmer MacKay, the Minister responsible for the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. I briefed Mr. MacKay on the changes our government plans to make in our housing programs in the 1993-94 delivery year, including the new home ownership programs announced earlier today. I told the Minister that this government has done everything we agreed to do to clean up its programs, and that we expect C.M.H.C. to maintain its commitment to address the housing needs in the N.W.T. in partnership with us.

Mr. MacKay remains sympathetic to our situation in the N.W.T. and understands the severity of our housing problems. He has not closed the door on the funding reinstatement issue. In addition, negotiations with C.M.H.C. are continued on cost sharing for the new home ownership programs. I will continue to keep this House and the public informed of developments of these negotiations as they occur.

While we are on the federal funding issue, I would like to acknowledge, with appreciation, the assistance given to us in our lobbying efforts by the Chairman of the Ordinary Members' Committee. I would also like to thank our federal Members of Parliament, Ethel Blondin-Andrew and Jack Anawak, as well as the leaders of the N.W.T. aboriginal organizations who have also written letters to the federal Minister and the Prime Minister on our behalf.

The new home ownership programs are timely, not only because they respond to a wider range of housing needs but because they are a more cost effective way of meeting those needs. The new programs are an essential part of the corporation's strategy to cope with the federal funding reductions.

Other changes to the program have also been made in order to maximize the number of households and public housing units that can be delivered in 1993-94. For example, we have improved our building design. Simpler layouts and mechanical systems will make construction and maintenance easier and less costly. These design changes will apply to the public housing program and home ownership programs.

The new home ownership programs, combined with the changes I have just described, have been designed to enable the Housing Corporation to do better with less.

It is no longer possible to deliver the program the way we did in the past for the simple reason we cannot afford it. It is also important to understand that if we do not make these changes, the number of houses we are able to deliver will be substantially reduced and fewer families will be helped. The results of the 1992 housing needs survey indicated 3,584 households in need across the N.W.T., an increase of 14 per cent over the past two years. We must do everything possible to deliver as many houses as we can with our limited resources.

The next year will be a challenging one, but I am confident that with the new programs announced today and with the program changes we have made, we will be able to continue to deliver new houses to those who need them the most. I ask for the continued support of all communities and all the Members of this House as we work together to do our best to meet the housing needs of the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 18-12(3): New Home Ownership Programs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 253

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Morin . I would like to take this opportunity to recognize in the visitors' gallery: Mr. Jack Anawak, the Member of Parliament for the Nunatsiaq riding; and Mr. Gary Bohnet, President of the Metis Nation. Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 19-12(3): Long Term Staff Housing Strategy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 253

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, when the government moved to the Northwest Territories in 1967, it introduced a program to provide subsidized accommodation and utilities to its employees.

The thinking at that time was that public servants moving to the north should not have to pay more rent for housing than they paid in the south.

Over the years this program became quite generous. There were notable differences between the size and type of furnished housing provided to staff hired from the south compared to what was available for local long-term residents.

In recent years the government and Legislative Assembly have taken some steps to ensure a more fair and equitable staff housing program, a program that would get the government out of its landlord relationship with its employees and encourage rather than discourage home ownership while stimulating the growth of a private sector housing market.

Some progress has been made in larger centres where many government homes have been sold, rental rates have moved to market value and employees pay the full cost of utilities.

The staff housing program, however, remains a problem area, particularly in off highway communities where there has been little if any private sector market and encouragement for employees to seek home ownership.

In most northern communities there is a shortage of accommodation. There are few incentives in place to encourage private housing development or home ownership. In addition, the government spends large amounts of money maintaining staff housing inventories in larger communities where employees could satisfy their needs for affordable housing on the private market.

There are also inconsistencies within our staff housing program. Employees within individual communities, sometimes even neighbours, are paying radically different rents for similar units. Rental and utility subsidies for staff housing place public servants in a better economic position than their private sector counterparts.

This discourages employees from getting into home ownership and provides absolutely no personal incentive to use water, power and heating oil resources wisely.

As a result, I am announcing a staff housing strategy today that will: improve efficiency and coordination in the delivery of all housing programs by making them the responsibility of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation; eliminate, over time, the government's role as landlord; encourage private housing development and home ownership throughout the Northwest Territories; and ensure rental rates and utility costs reflect market values.

Mr. Speaker, the phased transfer of all staff housing program responsibilities from Public Works and Government Services and the Department of Personnel to the Housing Corporation will be completed by April 1, 1994.

Where there is limited housing the corporation will make sure there is suitable accommodation available for staff to lease. By making the corporation responsible for staff housing needs, it will be in a much better position to offer larger, more economically viable projects for northern developers.

There would be significant spin off benefits to this approach. For instance, northern developers would be able to provide units for social housing clients, the public, and government staff all within the same complex.

Within 18 months, the government will be out of the staff housing business in Yellowknife, Fort Smith, Hay River and Inuvik. As well, the government will not be renewing leasing arrangements in these centres.

Employees in these communities will be given the first opportunity to purchase the homes they occupy. If the units are not purchased they will be offered for sale on the private market.

The houses will be sold in a manner that minimizes disruption and allows for the participation of private real estate agents. The

schedule calls for all sales to be finalized by April 1, 1994. Unsold stock, if any, will be turned over to the Housing Corporation for use in its other programs.

Mr. Speaker, we know that many people throughout the Northwest Territories would prefer to own their own shelter if the opportunity was available. As a result, the government is prepared to sell its houses to employees in all other communities in the Northwest Territories. Depending on the needs of each community, a certain number of surplus homes will be selected for sale. They will be appraised and sold at full market value.

Throughout the territories, the rent paid by staff will increase to the equivalent of Yellowknife market rates.

The increase will be phased in over a two year period for employees whose monthly rental increase would be more than 25 per cent of what...

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Minister's Statement 19-12(3): Long Term Staff Housing Strategy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 254

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi , time allotted for Ministers' Statements has lapsed.

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Minister's Statement 19-12(3): Long Term Staff Housing Strategy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 254

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to complete my Minister's Statements. Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 19-12(3): Long Term Staff Housing Strategy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 254

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 19-12(3): Long Term Staff Housing Strategy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 254

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you. Throughout the territories, the rent paid by staff will increase to the equivalent of Yellowknife market rates.

The increases will be phased in over a two year period for employees whose monthly rental increase would be more than 25 per cent of what they are already paying. The first adjustment is scheduled to take place April 1, 1993. Affected employees will be eligible for the full standard accommodation allowance when their rents reach market level.

Some employees with low incomes will find the transition to market rental rates difficult. Because of this, a hardship allowance will be available for situations in which the shelter costs exceed 30 per cent of the gross household income. This is consistent with the subsidies available to tenants in public housing in the Northwest Territories and all other jurisdictions in Canada.

Mr. Speaker, the use of energy resources is another important feature of the new staff housing strategy.

To promote energy conservation, a user pay program for utilities will be implemented over a period of two years. Employees will be provided with copies of utility billings for the January 1, 1993, billing period to make them aware of the actual costs of operating their units.

User pay electricity will begin on April 1, 1993, followed by user pay water and sewer by September 1, 1993. The final phase of this program will take effect on April 1, 1994, with the user pay heating fuel program.

Employees will be eligible, along with all other residents of the Northwest Territories, to take advantage of the subsidies available through the territorial power support program and the Water/Sewer Subsidy Program.

With the availability of these subsidies for electricity, water and sewer, there will no longer be a need for household allowances being paid to employees who own their housing in locations where utility costs are significantly higher than in Yellowknife. These allowances will be discontinued on April 1, 1993.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the housing strategy has been needed for many years.

The government believes that the changes are positive, that they promote equity amongst all territorial residents and eliminate the conflicting policies currently in place in the public and staff housing programs.

We are also confident that these changes will generate more housing starts by developers and improve the overall housing inventory in the territories. Combined with the home ownership incentives announced by the Housing Corporation, the new approach to staff housing should bring affordable shelter within reach of all residents.

Finally, these changes have been structured in a manner that will make housing programs much easier for communities to consider should they wish to assume responsibility for them as quickly as possible under our Community Transfer Initiative.

Mr. Speaker, the Members should know that many communities have already identified housing as one of the programs they wish to assume in the near future and I am committed to making this transfer a priority. I will be tabling the long-term staff housing strategy at the appropriate time later today. Thank you.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 19-12(3): Long Term Staff Housing Strategy

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 254

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi asked for and received unanimous consent to conclude his Ministers' Statements. Mr. Kakfwi has another Minister's Statement, please proceed.

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Minister's Statement 20-12(3): Launch Of Literacy Council Book

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 254

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I would like to invite the Members of this Assembly to join me in the lobby during today's coffee break for the official launch of a new book.

The book, which is called "I Remember", was published by the N.W.T. Literacy Council. It contains 22 stories by northerners about personal events that have made reading important to them. My colleague, Mr. Koe , has contributed to the book; so has Ethel Blondin-Andrew, M.P. for the western Arctic. There are also stories by students and by well known media personalities.

The contributions are in all official languages of the Northwest Territories.

The Literacy Council has printed 8,000 copies. They will be distributed free of charge to literacy and upgrading classes across the Northwest Territories to promote reading and to provide interesting reading material for learners.

The Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs provided a grant of $3,000 towards this publication. The National Literacy Secretariat of Multiculturalism and Citizenship Canada also supported the project through its funding for the Literacy Council. Special mention should go to Rob Butler and the staff at Inkit who provided illustrations and designed the book at no charge.

Each Member of the Legislature will receive a copy today from the Literacy Council.

At the coffee break, some of the contributors will read their stories and you may have your book autographed by these "Authors for Literacy". Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 20-12(3): Launch Of Literacy Council Book

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 255

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mr. Patterson .

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The Burning Of Nanook School In Apex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 255

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at 4:15 a.m. a fire in the Nanook School in Apex was reported to the Iqaluit Fire Department. The fire department arrived promptly but had problems with an inadequate supply of water. The school is a smoking ruin this morning. Built in the early 1950s, this school was the oldest school building still in use in the Northwest Territories. In recent years, this old building has been plagued with freeze-ups and other serious maintenance problems, but the old worn-out building did not prevent a very successful program from being run in Apex.

Mr. Speaker, Nanook School is a real community school. People in Apex are shattered today. At an emergency meeting early this morning, grown men and women were crying over the loss of their school. The more than 50 students in the school are sad. The children's Christmas presents for their party had just been put in the school yesterday and those presents burned up. In spite of their shock I am proud to report that the people of Apex and Iqaluit have pulled together and provided enormous support under the leadership of the principal, Hillary Da Silva and the Niaqunguut Education Council Chair, Saali Peter and his council. Classes resumed at 9:00 a.m. in the old I.O.D.E. hall in Apex.

The Niaqunguut Education Council will be meeting again tonight. Most of the people in Apex have a very strong desire to preserve the school program in Apex. I expect the council will be preoccupied with the short-term problems of keeping classes going in Apex without a school. However, it is not too early to begin thinking about a long-term plan to replace this loss. I have already spoken in this House about the exciting plans of the Apex Historical Society to renovate and preserve historical buildings in Apex, including the former resource centre next to the school, a building which is still sound.

I expect that people in Apex will have some sensible and practical ideas about renovating and utilizing these buildings in planning new school facilities. The Niaqunguut Education Council has felt that its views on the new school facility in Apex have not always been considered or respected by this government in the past. This government moved rapidly to replace burned schools in Rankin Inlet and Pine Point.

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The Burning Of Nanook School In Apex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 255

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson , your allotted time has lapsed.

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The Burning Of Nanook School In Apex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 255

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude. Thank you.

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The Burning Of Nanook School In Apex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 255

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Patterson .

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The Burning Of Nanook School In Apex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 255

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government moved rapidly to replace burned schools in Rankin Inlet and Pine Point. I will be pursuing the urgent need for new school facilities in Apex with great vigour in the coming months. Qujannamiik, Mr. Speaker.

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The Burning Of Nanook School In Apex

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 255

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mr. Zoe .

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Dogrib Nation Comprehensive Land Claim

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 255

Henry Zoe

North Slave

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, as you will recall, this process began during the first assembly of the Dogrib Treaty 11 Council held this past August in Rae. The council represents the communities of Rae Edzo, Rae Lakes, Snare Lakes and Lac La Martre. It was there that a resolution was passed unanimously which mandated the council to initiate and to assume full control and responsibility of negotiations for a Dogrib Nation regional comprehensive claim.

Mr. Speaker, as I have said in this House before, our aspiration of political autonomy in the North Slave must be coupled with economic strength. Self-government in the North Slave is meaningless without a solid economic base. Without a solid economic base, Mr. Speaker, self-government is akin to a tree that can bear no fruit. That is our principle reason for settling a comprehensive claim with the federal government. Mr.

Speaker, I anticipate that early in the new year we will have assembled a negotiating team, have our federal funding support and be in position to commence claims negotiations with the federal government. Mahsi Cho.

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Dogrib Nation Comprehensive Land Claim

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 256

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Mr. Bernhardt .

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Development Of Mineral Production

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 256

Ernie Bernhardt

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a few comments about the need which exists to fast track development in the mining sector, in order to ensure an equitable economic base across the Northwest Territories. The honourable Members are already aware that mineral production currently accounts for 75 per cent of the value of goods produced in the Northwest Territories and over 25 per cent of the gross domestic product. There are vast opportunities which have yet to be realized.

A 1988 study carried out by Dr. Brian MacKenzie of the Centre for Resource Studies at Queen's University, concluded that the economic potential of base metal mining in the Yukon and the Northwest Territories is significantly greater than in southern Canada. Now is the time when this government should be putting its emphasis on the development of our promising mining potential. Now is the time when we should be moving forward to collect necessary scientific information, work towards the transfer and development of northern technology and to do our best to attract investors.

Focusing on mineral development is especially important to my constituency, the Kitikmeot, and to my honourable colleague from North Slave. In the Government Leader 's June 16 announcement on the new directions decentralization initiative, she said it contained something for everyone, except the North Slave and the Kitikmeot. The Government Leader commented that she would be trying to maximize the benefits associated with mineral development. She stated, and I quote, "If transportation and energy infrastructure can be developed, the Northwest Territories can be the most exciting mining region in the world and the employment and economic development opportunities will be enormous."

I will be asking the appropriate Minister today what progress has been made in building this infrastructure. Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to continue my statement.

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Development Of Mineral Production

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 256

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays? Please proceed, Mr. Bernhardt .

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Development Of Mineral Production

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 256

Ernie Bernhardt

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be asking the appropriate Minister what progress has been made in building this infrastructure. I hope they will have some optimistic news that we can take to our people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Development Of Mineral Production

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 256

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' Statements. Ms. Mike .

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Clean Up Of D.e.w. Line Sites

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 256

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today on behalf of the Baffin Central communities to express appreciation for the diligent efforts that have been undertaken by the federal Department of National Defence during the design phase of the clean up of ten former D.E.W. Line sites. Mr. Speaker, you are aware that for many years the people of our Arctic communities have been troubled by the presence of these unsightly and potentially dangerous areas. I am pleased to report that, after waiting for such a long time, we are finally seeing some progress.

Public consultation meetings were held in August, 1992, to collect local input on how best to carry out the clean up of the first ten sites to be targeted. Although there was supposed to be a second round of public meetings this fall, the decision has now been made to postpone these until scientific studies on the next 11 sites have been completed. By postponing the second round of community consultation until the spring of 1993, it would be possible to provide more detailed information on clean up procedures and to allow for more meaningful discussions of all 21 sites.

Mr. Speaker, I have been very impressed with the approach the Department of National Defence has been taking with this project. They are approaching it as a partnership with the affected communities, and special efforts are being made to communicate with the mayors and councils involved. With this excellent start, I look forward to the days when these damaged lands will be clear of the discarded equipment and garbage that has offended the Inuit for so many years. I have spoken in this House before, Mr. Speaker, about aboriginal people being the guardians of our natural environment. We care for the land on which we have been placed. We nurture it back to health when it has been injured.

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Clean Up Of D.e.w. Line Sites

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 256

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Ms. Mike . I do note that Ms. Mike finished within the proper time frame. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Difficulties Faced By Trappers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 256

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. As all Members are aware, the Northwest Territories is going through very difficult economic times. People from all walks of life are affected by the poor performance of the economy. However, Mr. Speaker, nowhere is this economic difficulty felt more than by Dene and Metis people in the communities. These are people who are trappers. Not only do they face the pressure of a declining economy, but at the same time they face pressures from misguided anti-fur activists.

The cost of food, supplies and equipment for trappers has been steadily rising over the years, while at the same time, decreases in the price of fur has meant a dramatic drop in the income of trappers. Mr. Speaker, the Trap Exchange Program has also added to this problem. Trappers are told to exchange their leg hold traps for improved traps. The government is funding this exchange. Trapping is a tough life under normal circumstances, and this exchange is

an added burden to a lot of people because of the confusion that it causes.

Mr. Speaker, the combination of these factors is making it virtually impossible for trappers in the Northwest Territories to earn a living now. Mr. Speaker, there are many elders in the Northwest Territories who wish to continue to pursue traditional hunting and trapping lifestyles. However, the current system penalizes some of these trappers if they wish to pursue a traditional livelihood. Many elders who receive old age pension benefits have any income they earn from trapping deducted from their monthly pension cheques. It is a disincentive for many elders to pursue a traditional lifestyle today.

Mr. Speaker, when elders can pursue their lifestyle it creates a more healthy person in body and spirit. It is my opinion that Members of the House should do everything possible to allow people to continue and pursue a traditional way of life. Mahsi.

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Difficulties Faced By Trappers

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 257

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Ningark .

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Member's Statement Regarding Today's Youth

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 257

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand today to make a statement with regard to our young people who will be running the government in the future. As M.L.A.s, we all have children, sisters and brothers who will be working with the government in the future. They will be the ones who will be running our land and working in Yellowknife as well as other areas in the Northwest Territories.

Today, there are young people who are living with two different cultures. I am sure it is very stressful for the young people who have to live that way. We have to think about what we can do for them in order for them to work and make a living. They will be helping us in the future. While we are meeting today, we have to make them see the work we are doing and the issues that we are dealing with, with regard to social services, the women's organizations and education. We have to get them involved in the process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Member's Statement Regarding Today's Youth

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 257

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Ningark . Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Whitford .

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Member's Statement Regarding The Dedication Of N.W.T. Power Corporation Employees

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 257

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are many men and women who provide services to the residents of the Northwest Territories, who are engaged in extremely hazardous occupations such as police, fire fighters and similar service employees whom we often take for granted. They risk their lives whenever there is an emergency. These dedicated individuals are observed by all of us on a regular basis and every once in a while we publicly show our gratitude and pay tribute to those who help to ensure our safety.

However, it seems that there are people who are forgotten. As the winter season approaches I am reminded of storms in which the blizzard conditions reduce visibility to a few metres and confine us all to the warmth and security of our homes. Mr. Speaker, there are few people who would venture out during these conditions, but there are those who do on a regular basis. We can all recall with some trepidation when the lights flicker and go out on those windy blustery days. It is usually easy to remember the relief we feel when, a short time later, the power is restored.

Most of the time, when the power fails it is not some state of the art computer that restores our electricity. It is the dedicated plant operators and line crew of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and other such people who brave extreme conditions, climb poles and make repairs. These individuals are on call under all-weather conditions and all throughout the year. They venture out to service the many kilometres of power lines so that we can remain safe and comfortable within our homes.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to salute those employees of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation for their self-sacrifice, dedication of service and for keeping our homes warm, safe, bright and secure. Thank you.

---Applause

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Member's Statement Regarding The Dedication Of N.W.T. Power Corporation Employees

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 257

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Whitford . Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Pudlat .

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Department Of Government Services And Public Works In Sanikiluaq

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 257

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is a concern in Sanikiluaq. In Sanikiluaq the responsibilities for petroleum products are dealt with by D.P.W. and we would like this to stay as is. Mr. Speaker, this is what the people of Sanikiluaq would like to see and this will be one of the questions I will be bringing up later. Thank you.

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Department Of Government Services And Public Works In Sanikiluaq

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 257

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements. Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 34-12(3): Employee Training For Kiosk

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 257

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Zoe on November 20, 1992. It concerns the employee training for a kiosk in Toronto.

Arctic Canada has been open for four months, since July 23, 1992. The staff of Arctic Canada at the time of hiring are given a package of N.W.T. tourism information which they are expected to know within their first week of employment. This package includes the N.W.T. 1992 Explorer's Guide and one of each of the eight new ED&T arts and crafts brochures covering the areas of birch bark baskets, tufting, performing arts, beadwork, print making, carving, tanned hides and quill work. After completing several shifts at Arctic Canada, the staff members are given a written quiz on the information that they have read.

Arctic Canada also has, at the kiosk, a library of resource materials which contains a broad perspective of information on the Northwest Territories. Employees are expected to increase their knowledge of the Northwest Territories by reviewing this material.

At the time of the kiosk opening, the staff was taken to Canadian Arctic producers and to the Northwest Company in Toronto and given a seminar by the managers of each of the facilities. Also, Mr. Speaker, Doug Stewart, one of the original Pangnirtung weave shop managers, spent an evening with the staff.

The general manager and staff of Arctic Canada realize the important role that they play as ambassadors for the north. A Member's concern has been brought to the attention of all staff at Arctic Canada and they will make every effort to provide accurate, timely and interesting information about the Northwest Territories and about the products in the kiosk and their place of origin. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 34-12(3): Employee Training For Kiosk

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 258

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Ms. Cournoyea .

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Return To Question 86-12(3): Honorariums For Board Of Inquiry Members

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 258

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on November 25, 1992 regarding honorariums for Board of Inquiry members. The honourable Member for Thebacha has asked whether the members of the Board of Inquiry, under the Medical Profession Act, receive an honorarium. Mr. Speaker, members of the Board of Inquiry, like all members of N.W.T. boards, are eligible for honorariums on a per diem basis for time spent on board matters such as attendance at regular meetings or hearings. Their expenses for travel, accommodation, or meals reimbursed are in accordance with the Government of the Northwest Territories' policy for duty travel. Thank you.

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Return To Question 86-12(3): Honorariums For Board Of Inquiry Members

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 258

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 154-12(3): Implementation Of Recommendations On Legal Aid System

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 258

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, this is in response to a question asked by Mr. Zoe on December 1, 1992, regarding the implementation of recommendations on the legal aid system.

The legal aid system has come under review from a variety of sources over the past few years. Recommendations have been directed at the department from the "Strength at Two Levels" report, the report of the Auditor General and the report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

Our immediate critical concern was controlling expenditures in times of fiscal restraint. A focal point of the restraining measures was, and is, the controlling of fees and disbursements payable to lawyers. This has been pursued aggressively. The Legal Services Board, in response to the economic situation, imposed stringent restraints during the last few months of the last fiscal year. Although those restraint measures were lifted, the economizing has continued and expenditures are within control. For the first time in years the department will not be seeking supplementary funding for legal aid fees and payments.

The Department of Justice and the Legal Services Board have been coordinating their efforts to address the future of legal aid. The department has reviewed and analyzed recommendations from various sources and developed an internal legal aid action plan. This has been presented to the Legal Services Board for review. The plan was not intended to dictate to the board, but rather to provide them with some assistance in reviewing the issues on which they have the mandate to make decisions. Some of the changes do depend upon having a full-time executive director in place.

An earlier competition was unsuccessful, but a part-time person has been in place on a contract basis to keep things going. A second competition has closed and I have been advised that the interviews should be held before Christmas. The competitions for staff legal aid lawyers have also closed and it is expected that the interviews will take place before Christmas. This action was taken as a result of recommendations from the "Strength at Two Levels" report and the action plan developed by the department.

The department has also been looking at such issues as eligibility criteria, means testings and contributions. Consideration is being given to what changes could be made to the Legal Services Act and regulations.

We will be assisting the new executive director of the Legal Services Board and the board itself in whatever way we can to implement improvements to the system.

Negotiations between the department, the Legal Services Board and the Law Society are being carried out to determine a new tariff or

schedule of fees payable to lawyers in private practice who do legal aid work. It is anticipated that they will conclude in the near future.

Progress is being made in the implementation of measures that will improve the legal aid system in the Northwest Territories. It is not my intention to sacrifice the quality of legal aid services in order to implement changes quickly. To get the best value for our money in the long run, I believe that the methodical implementation process that we are pursuing is warranted. Thank you.

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Return To Question 154-12(3): Implementation Of Recommendations On Legal Aid System

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 258

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize in the gallery the Mayor, Ray Michaud, and the Deputy Mayor, Tom Wilson, of the village of Fort Simpson.

---Applause

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 142-12(3): Upgrade Of Computer Information System

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 258

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

This is in response to a question asked by Mr. Zoe on December 1, 1992, regarding the upgrade of the computer information system. Mr. Speaker, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts recommended that the Department of Justice and the Legal Services Board develop adequate legal aid information systems. It was also recommended by the Auditor General.

The department fully recognizes the need for a comprehensive information system. A

schedule to the regulations made pursuant to the Legal Services Act sets out rules for determining financial eligibility for legal aid. Some of the difficulties which were noted in the Auditor General's Report can be attributed to a lack of documentation of reasons for determining whether a client is eligible for legal aid or not. The general rule is that an applicant is financially eligible when the applicant receives most of his or her income from social assistance, or if the legal fees for services would reduce the applicant's income to a level where he or she would become eligible for social assistance.

A good information system will document the reasons for finding a person eligible or ineligible. It will provide meaningful statistics on this and a number of other issues.

The Legal Services Board presently has a micro-based computer information system. This system does not meet the complete management information requirements of the Department of Justice, the Legal Services Board, or the Auditor General. The department recognizes the inadequacy of the system and intends to upgrade the current system by October, 1993. This is a short-term measure; the long-term solution to the lack of adequate management statistics will be the development of a new automated system.

The following steps will be taken by the department, in consultation with the Legal Services Board, from now until the end of the 1993-94 fiscal year.

We will work with systems and computer services staff of the Department of Government Services and Public Works to develop the terms of reference for a new management information system. We will identify the costs associated with the development of such a system. We will canvass other jurisdictions with regard to the compatibility and availability of existing systems. We will determine both internal and external information requirements. These will include the requirements of the Legal Services Board, the executive director of the board, the Department of Justice management, other G.N.W.T. management, the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics and the Auditor General.

It is anticipated that by the end of 1993-94 all the information requirements will have been determined and that the development of a new system with the modification of an existing system from another jurisdiction will be possible. The competition for the position of executive director of the legal services board closed recently.

We believe that hands-on involvement will be required for someone working in the legal aid system, in the development of a new cost-effective information system.

As I said earlier, the development of the new information system will have to be done with a clear method and a well thought out process. It will also be a very costly enterprise. With that in mind, it has to be cost effective and much planning will have to go into the development of it. Thank you.

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Return To Question 142-12(3): Upgrade Of Computer Information System

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 259

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Whitford

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Return To Question 110-12(3): Status Of Pys For Safety Education

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 259

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is return to question 110-12(3), asked by Mrs. Jeannie Marie-Jewell on November 26, 1992, concerning the status of PYs for safety education.

Mr. Speaker, the three person years identified in the 1991-92 Main Estimates for safety education are no longer in existence.

One individual, the Librarian, who was previously funded under this program is being carried by the vacancy factor in the safety division. Thank you.

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Return To Question 110-12(3): Status Of Pys For Safety Education

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 259

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 60-12(3): Reason For Ed&t Staff Travel To The Far East

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 259

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my return is to question 60-12(3), asked by Mr. Dent on November 23, 1992. It concerned the reason for Economic Development and Tourism staff travelling to the far east.

Mr. Speaker, the director of product development, planning and regulations for ED&T and tourism operator representatives from Northwinds, Nahanni Mountain Lodge and Adventure Northwest participated in Kanata 1992, between November 10 and 13 of this year. While the three operators sold their own packages the tourism director represented all other Northwest Territories' products.

Kanata is a specialized tourism marketplace in which both Canadian sellers and Japanese buyers assemble at one venue, enabling them to engage in travel, trade development and business negotiations. The department and private sector operators have participated in this marketplace since 1990. The Kanata annual marketplace is organized by the Canadian Embassy in Tokyo, which selects and qualifies 55 Japanese travel agencies to sell Canadian tourism products in Japan. Canadian operators and government organizations apply individually to attend as sellers and are selected by the Canadian Embassy.

As a result of past dealings with Kanata, the Northwest Territories has continued to grow. Key travel trade wholesalers are extending their tour offerings beyond the popular Aurora product in Yellowknife and there is now extensive interest in other parts of the Northwest Territories.

During the course of Kanata, Mr. Speaker, each of the Northwest Territories' participants held 45 private business sessions with Japanese buyers. Other open sessions provided additional contacts with interested Japanese buyers. Further, pre- and post-Kanata meetings were held in Tokyo with the Japan Travel Corporation, a company that initiated Japanese tour travel to the Northwest Territories. The department will provide Northwest Territories operators with a detailed contact list of interested Japanese travel agencies. Operators will be asked to report on sales related to the contacts. Subsequently, the net value of offshore marketplace activities can be determined. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 60-12(3): Reason For Ed&t Staff Travel To The Far East

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 259

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 151-12(3): Completion Of Code Of Rights

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 260

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, this is in response to question 151-12(3), asked by Mr. Zoe on December 1, 1992, regarding the completion of code of rights.

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts recommended that a simply worded code of rights with respect to legal aid be developed and published in the official languages. The idea is a very good one. It is our intention to consult with the Legal Services Board in the development of a pamphlet which will inform the people of the Northwest Territories what they are entitled to and what their responsibilities are.

The development of such a pamphlet is consistent with the report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality, which recommends that the Legal Services Board take steps to better inform the public of the procedures involved in applying for legal aid and the mechanisms available for the review of a decision respecting qualification.

The Lawline operates from 6:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. on Tuesday and Thursday nights with volunteer lawyers staffing the phones. It is a 1-800 number which people may call to ask for free legal advice. People can use this service to find out information about their rights.

The development of a more detailed pamphlet can begin once it has been determined what changes are to be made to legal aid entitlement and to the responsibilities of clients. Thank you.

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Return To Question 151-12(3): Completion Of Code Of Rights

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 260

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 149-12(3): Sale Of Staff Housing In Fort Smith

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 260

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, this is in response to Mrs. Jeannie Marie-Jewell 's question 149-12(3) asked on December 1, 1992, regarding the sale of staff housing in Fort Smith.

The Member for Thebacha asked me when the houses being considered for sale in Fort Smith will be going to the real estate agents.

Staff houses that are considered for sale in Fort Smith will be going through the real estate agencies beginning January, 1993. A maximum of five to ten units will be on the market at any one time. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 149-12(3): Sale Of Staff Housing In Fort Smith

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 260

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 99-12(3): Water Quality Monitoring On The Mackenzie River

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 260

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question 99-12(3), asked by Mr. Gargan on November 25, 1992 in regards to water quality monitoring on the Mackenzie River.

Water quality monitoring is the responsibility of the federal government. The Government of the Northwest Territories, through the Department of Renewable Resources, cooperates with the federal government on these initiatives.

There are several monitoring programs currently being conducted within the Mackenzie River Basin. These include studies on the Mackenzie River and the other rivers that flow into it.

Water quality sampling is carried out monthly, by the federal government, along the Mackenzie River at Fort Providence, Strong Point, Wrigley, Norman Wells, Fort Good Hope and Arctic Red River. Information such as the amount of oxygen and heavy metals in the water is measured.

Fish sampling occurred this year at Fort Resolution, Yellowknife Back Bay and the Mackenzie Delta. These fish samples will be analyzed for such contaminants as organochlorines and heavy metals. Information was also collected on turbot livers in Fort Good Hope from 1986 to 1989.

Monitoring programs on the Slave River and the Liard River examine contaminants in water, sediment and fish. These programs are located on rivers that flow into the Mackenzie River to detect contaminants entering the Northwest Territories from Alberta or British Columbia. Thank you.

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Return To Question 99-12(3): Water Quality Monitoring On The Mackenzie River

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 260

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 134-12(3): Non-violation Of Collective Agreement

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 260

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, this is in response to question 134-12(3), asked by Mrs. Jeannie Marie-Jewell on November 30,1992.

Mr. Speaker, the Member from Thebacha asked me to review a potential violation of the collective agreement in the matter of the treatment coordinator position at the Trailcross facility in Fort Smith. Mrs. Marie-Jewell also asked me if the treatment coordinator position was the proper position for the employee in question.

I have been informed by my officials that this issue is the subject of three separate grievances by the Union of Northern Workers. I understand the issue revolves around a difference of opinion between the union and management over the right of management to proceed with the voluntary transfer of an employee without the involvement of the union.

The grievance procedure, Mr. Speaker, was negotiated with the union to provide a standard process for resolving this sort of problem. The grievance procedure has three levels. The first two involve an attempt on the part of the union and management to agree on a resolution of the problem. If the second level does not resolve the problem, the grievance is referred to the Minister of Personnel as the third and final level prior to arbitration.

These grievances are still being dealt with at the first two levels and I am optimistic that they will be resolved without the need for the Minister of Personnel to become involved. This time proven process has been negotiated in good faith with the union and it has been very effective in resolving disputes in the past. I will not become involved in the matter at this point, as I may be asked to rule on the case at a higher level. I would ask the Member to recognize the need for this issue to be dealt with in the normal labour management grievance forum.

It would not be appropriate for me to make any judgemental comments on the issue, as it will prejudice my ability to be objective if I am called upon to deal with it at the third level of the grievance process. Thank you.

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Return To Question 134-12(3): Non-violation Of Collective Agreement

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 261

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Zoe .

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Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question will be directed to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . Today my colleague from Kitikmeot commented on the importance of seeing the government proceed as quickly as possible with developing the mineral resource sector of our northern economy. The Minister knows that the approximate sum of $8.5 million allocated to the mineral development category is the largest single allocation under the E.D.A. agreement. Close to $2.5 million of that allocation was targeted to the North Slave region. An additional $900,000 was also set aside for territorial-wide initiatives.

Can the Minister indicate to the House what we have to show for this? How has the North Slave benefited to date from this E.D.A. funding?

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Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard . Ms. Cournoyea .

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Return To Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The funding for the mineral development agreement is transferred to the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. The Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources conducts the program of activity in the various areas of the Northwest Territories to seek out potential mineral deposits. The information gathered is made available to anyone who wants it to pursue or extend the areas of exploration potential. It is a geophysical, geoscientific information gathering system.

It is general information that is available to potential investors or people who want to work or detail some of the areas in which they would want to conduct further exploration. Thank you.

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Return To Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mr. Speaker, the Minister answered part of my question. What I asked was, how did my constituents benefit from this money that was specifically allocated to the North Slave region? I do not believe the money that was allocated to this particular program has benefited the communities in the North Slave region. That was my question. Supplementary, Mr. Speaker, what future E.D.A. initiatives can the people of the North Slave expect to see, specifically within the Dogrib communities over the next six to ten months?

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Supplementary To Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the information that has been gathered under the Economic Development Agreement Program, in particular the mineral development agreement, has been used over a number of years to earmark some of the exploration that is going on presently. Many of the companies that operate from the Coronation Gulf area down to the Slave Lake area, have tapped into that particular information to further earmark exploration. If the Member is asking the question specifically where were the expenditures made and who did that particular work, I can provide him with that in written form. I do not have that specific information if that is exactly what he is asking.

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Further Return To Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Question 170-12(3): Benefits Of E.d.a. Agreement In North Slave Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the acting Minister of Education , I am sure the Minister is aware of the fire in Apex last night. I wonder if he could tell the House what he knows of arrangements to be put in place to allow classes to continue in Apex this winter? Thank you.

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Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 261

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, there are so many books on my desk, I cannot locate the note. I should express my own sympathy for the people of Apex at this loss. My own personal experience of dealing with them in my previous responsibilities is that the people were very attached to this particular building. In fact, I made an offer as the Minister to build a whole new building for them and they opted for renovations to the existing facility. I do know personally of the loss they must feel.

With regard to the immediate measures that are being taken, the Members of the Legislative Assembly should know, the students have been moved for instruction over to one of the halls available in the community, the I.O.D.E. Hall. The classes have resumed there and the community is presently being called to let them know that officials from the department will be travelling to Iqaluit shortly to meet with people in the community and the divisional board to map out a plan of action in the wake of the significant loss by the community. Thank you.

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Return To Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to hear that this is being taken seriously and that departmental officials are travelling to meet with the community. Can I have the Minister's assurance that the views of the Niaqunguut Education Council will be taken into account in developing a plan to provide for the new school facilities for the children of Apex?

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Supplementary To Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe that the department should. I will ask the department to ensure that when we are reviewing the implications of the loss of the school in Apex, we will deal with the appropriate divisional board and the local education council. I will insist that the views of the citizens of Apex and the M.L.A. be taken into account. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Question 171-12(3): Arrangements For Classes To Continue In Apex

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Pudlat .

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Question 172-12(3): Responsibility For Petroleum Product Division In Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of D.P.W. In Sanikiluaq, at the present time, D.P.W. is looking after the petroleum products division and they have the funding for this responsibility. They would like to keep this as such. Mr. Speaker, during this session could the Minister please provide me with information as to whether it will stay the same or whether someone else will take it over? Thank you.

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Question 172-12(3): Responsibility For Petroleum Product Division In Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 172-12(3): Responsibility For Petroleum Product Division In Sanikiluaq

Question 172-12(3): Responsibility For Petroleum Product Division In Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Petroleum products in Sanikiluaq will be staying the same. There is no move to change this at all.

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Return To Question 172-12(3): Responsibility For Petroleum Product Division In Sanikiluaq

Question 172-12(3): Responsibility For Petroleum Product Division In Sanikiluaq

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Ningark

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Question 173-12(3): Funding For Youth Organizations To Attend Meetings

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier . In my Member's statement I mentioned that the young people are our future. They will be looking after us when we are old and frail. They will also be looking after the government. The honourable Minister is a proponent of that idea. Mr. Speaker, we need to send a message to the young people that we care. We need to make this connection. We need to build a lasting bond between ourselves and the young people. I do not know if the present Assembly would be a good place to start learning about politics but they have to start learning somewhere. Mr.

Speaker, would the Premier consider looking for ways and means to fund youth organizations so that they could attend regional or national meetings? Thank you.

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Question 173-12(3): Funding For Youth Organizations To Attend Meetings

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Madam Premier .

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Return To Question 173-12(3): Funding For Youth Organizations To Attend Meetings

Question 173-12(3): Funding For Youth Organizations To Attend Meetings

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, presently we have funded a number of exchange programs and supported a number of regional bodies so youth can be more actively involved in, and be exposed to other jurisdictions as well as political regimes. I will take it upon this Cabinet to look at what we are doing, at this point in time, and how much funding we do place before the various regions for this type of endeavour. I will also accept the Member's suggestion that we look to do more in this area. Thank you.

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Return To Question 173-12(3): Funding For Youth Organizations To Attend Meetings

Question 173-12(3): Funding For Youth Organizations To Attend Meetings

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Zoe .

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Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , or the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources . Earlier today, my colleague from Kitikmeot referred to the MacKenzie report which was completed at the Centre of Resource Studies at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario. Mr. Speaker, one of Dr. MacKenzie's findings was that there may be a basis within the Canadian investment community which causes it to under invest in base metal exploration development in the Yukon and the Northwest Territories, and to over invest in the provinces.

My question to the Minister is, can the Minister advise this House as to the specific initiatives this department is undertaking to improve investors' confidence and encourage participation in northern mining ventures?

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Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Return To Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 262

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to the honourable Member who posed the question that in the last couple of years we have worked very hard with him, and I certainly appreciate the support that he has given to the Government of the Northwest Territories in trying to establish working relationships between the people, the region, the communities and the industry, not only to support the actual development but the potential subsidiary developments that would give economic revenue to communities and regions.

For example, I know that the power of potential development is one area where there has been significant interest shown by aboriginal groups to get involved. The potential customer that would make this particular venture economically viable is the mining industry.

Mr. Speaker, there is a coordinating committee of the Government of the Northwest Territories including the Departments of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Transportation and Economic Development and Tourism. This has been set up to begin a process of evaluating development options and to determine what information is required to make the management decisions associated with Northwest Territories mineral developments, particularly in looking at the Izok Lake area and the Lac De Gras diamond activity.

Options that exist to supply energy to the Izok Lake area include oil from the North Sea, and N.W.T. sources of local hydro. We are attempting to continue to work vigorously with the mining industry and we have a very good relationship with them. With these developments, it is not only the option of trying to get into joint ventures once they have got over the exploration stage. There have been several meetings held with the Coppermine region as well as with the Dogrib Nation in looking at opportunities to become involved. We are not sitting back and waiting for someone else to do the job.

It would not matter if it was the potential to service energy, maybe smaller hydro energy, to some of the smaller diamond areas, about which we recently had a meeting, in which the Member was involved. It appears that the senior mining company officials who were present were very interested in any opportunity that we could identify. We have a little head start on that.

In terms of the Izok Lake deposit, we know that this is going to require a road to the port. These discussions include the possibility of funding ourselves. This study is conducted by the Panarctic Shipping Agency with financial support from the Government of the Northwest Territories. We have also encouraged the involvement of the Northern Transportation Company Limited to make sure that they are in the operation as quickly as possible so that they will not be left behind. We have been actively working with people and making sure that the areas of mineral exploration involves local people and that the spin-off benefits come to local people. We will continue our active involvement.

I have attended a number of meetings with the mining industry and continue to deal with the Department of Indian Affairs. The northern benefits which are involved in some of the claims which have been settled, should be recognized. At the same time, just because some areas are not under the claims process, that does not mean that the involvement is not important to us, whether it is business opportunity or employment. Thank you.

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Return To Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Return To Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Our former colleague, Mr. Ray, was commenting this morning that what was happening in the Cabinet may lead to a loss of investors' confidence in the territories. Can the Minister make more realistic comments on the subject that was raised in the news report? Is the Minister contemplating any extraordinary expenditure of E.D.A. or other funds to ensure that investors outside the territories realize that this is, and will continue to be, a stable environment in which to invest their money?

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Return To Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Zoe , asking the Minister to speculate on a statement made outside of this House is not appropriate. I would ask you to rephrase your question. Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mr. Speaker, I will rephrase my supplementary. Is the Minister contemplating any extraordinary expenditures of E.D.A. or other funds to ensure that investors outside the territories realize that this is, and will continue to be, a stable environment in which to invest their money? This is with regard to investors' confidence in the Northwest Territories.

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Supplementary To Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, we continue to vigorously support the mineral industry and its involvement with aboriginal people and the users of the land. I cannot speculate what one bad note is going to do to the investment climate of the Northwest Territories, but I have not received any phone calls or indications from the people who are operating up here that they are worried about that. There is active interest and there seems to be continuing interest. We will be seeing the federal agency, Geo-Science of Canada, moving up to the Northwest Territories.

This is a significant support which indicates that the future requirements to look for information and gather data is going to be significant for us. I have not heard or seen an indication that the multi-million dollar expenditure is going to be impeded by a bad note passed between friends. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Question 174-12(3): Initiatives To Improve Investors' Confidence In Northern Mining Ventures

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Gargan .

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Question 175-12(3): Water Quality In Mackenzie River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources with regard to a response to me on water quality sampling. I realize that there is sampling going on in different areas including Fort Providence, Strong Point, Norman Wells, etc. Also, there is fish sampling being done in Fort Resolution, etc. What is the status of these samples? Are we seeing more contaminants in the water now? Should we be concerned with regard to the quality of water in the Mackenzie?

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Question 175-12(3): Water Quality In Mackenzie River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 175-2(3): Water Quality In Mackenzie River

Question 175-12(3): Water Quality In Mackenzie River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since the studies began, very little has changed in terms of heavy metals and contaminants in the water found by the studies. We are talking about parts per billion of contaminants. The report has not been finalized yet on the fish that were taken for sampling. It has not come to us. I do not know when that will be coming to our government. Thank you.

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Return To Question 175-2(3): Water Quality In Mackenzie River

Question 175-12(3): Water Quality In Mackenzie River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 263

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 176-12(3): Payment For Study Undertaken By B.r.c.

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources . Some years ago a harvest study was undertaken in north Baffin. This study was to be funded by the Department of Renewable Resources through a contribution to the Baffin Regional Council. As I understand it, the work was done, but a bill was never sent to the department. The money set aside that year for this project lapsed. Does the department intend to see that this work is paid for through the B.R.C.?

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Question 176-12(3): Payment For Study Undertaken By B.r.c.

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 176-12(3): Payment For Study Undertaken By B.r.c.

Question 176-12(3): Payment For Study Undertaken By B.r.c.

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is correct that the Department of Renewable Resources initiated a study to collect harvest data from hunters and trappers in 1986. The regional council agreed to coordinate the study. In this harvest study, the community field workers were hired and paid by hamlet councils. The agreement was that the hamlet councils would invoice the Baffin Regional Council. In a number of cases, the hamlet councils never did invoice the Baffin Regional Council. We know that this study was done. We are obligated to pay for that study.

Because of the accounting problems that are being experienced by the Baffin Regional Council at this point, we are unable to find the proper invoices and accounting for the Baffin Regional Council. As a government, we have said to the Baffin Regional Council that we are willing to help them to put their books in better order so that the full accounting of this money to B.R.C. could be made by the department. Thank you.

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Return To Question 176-12(3): Payment For Study Undertaken By B.r.c.

Question 176-12(3): Payment For Study Undertaken By B.r.c.

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to put a question to the Minister responsible for Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources . A great deal has been said about the Izok Lake proposal. It seems that it is a $1 billion project. Could I ask the Minister if her department has assessed this project and whether Members of this House could receive an assessment of the proposal?

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Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Return To Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, we are doing a number of things. One of the areas that we are presently involved with is a data base collection in Coppermine which is the closest community to the activity. There has been some resource information gathering out of Cambridge Bay. We are trying to put together a report on how we can maximize employment and economic benefits. There has been some active work with Coppermine and Cambridge Bay, which have endorsed the fact that many members of their communities have worked in the Beaufort/Delta and they are encouraging transportation support so that once the activity starts, the people from the Beaufort/Delta could take

part in the employment and business opportunities. It is going to be quite a large project. We are trying to put together as much as we can right now, just to get the maximum benefit from that activity.

I would be pleased to provide the preliminary reports of the areas that are complete. I can report what stage the other areas are at. Thank you.

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Return To Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I also ask the Minister if in her assessment she could consider ensuring that the statistics for other communities are included. For instance, those which have been involved in the mining industry in Yellowknife and Hay River so that there is a generally good assessment of the availability of the labour force in the Northwest Territories.

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Supplementary To Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ms. Cournoyea .

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Further Return To Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Question 177-12(3): Assessment Of Izok Lake Proposal

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 264

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, yes, I can do that.

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