Debates of Feb. 23rd, 1994

This is page numbers 303 - 337 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was chairman .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Awarding Of Federal Government Contract To Non-inuit Company

Pauktuutit's Annual General Meeting

Judging A Public Speaking Contest

The Federal Budget Address

The Development Of An NWT Fur Strategy

Judicial System In The Nwt

Ed&t Classification Of Communities

GNWT Position On Tobacco Taxes

Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Review Of Social Assistance For Part-time Workers

Amendments To Motor Vehicles Act

Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Analysis Of Federal Budget

Inclusion Of Organ Donor Cards On Back Of Drivers' Licences

Resumption Of Iso Meeting

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Establishment Of Special Joint Committee On Division

Amended Terms Of Reference For The Advisory Committee On Social Housing

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95

Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

To Adopt Recommendation 20

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq , Mr. Arvaluk , Mr. Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell , Hon. Don Morin , Hon. Richard Nerysoo , Mr. Ng , Mr. Ningark , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. John Todd , Mr. Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 303

The Speaker

Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Amittuq , Mr. Allooloo .

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Awarding Of Federal Government Contract To Non-inuit Company

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Members of the Nunavut Caucus have been provided with a copy of a letter written to the federal Minister of National Defence and the federal Minister of Supply and Services from James Eetoolook, acting president of Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated. Madam Speaker, the letter protests the awarding of a contract to operate core campsites in 1994 to a Quebec firm rather than Avati, a subsidiary of Nunasi Corporation and the Inuvialuit Development Corporation which makes it 100 per cent Inuit owned.

Avati carried out the contract successfully last year, which was to erect, maintain and disassemble working camps for other contractors that were upgrading or constructing the new Distant Early Warning stations. Avati completed this task with a workforce made up of 82 per cent Inuit. This contract is worth several million dollars, Madam Speaker, and it is the first large contract awarded by the federal government in Nunavut since the ratification of the Nunavut land claims.

Section 24 of the land claim commits the federal government to not only include Inuit firms in the solicitization of bids, but also commits the federal government to develop, implement and maintain policies to provide support and assistance to Inuit firms to compete for government contracts. It was agreed that these policies would be in place one year from ratification of the claim which is coming up this summer. Madam Speaker, it is very disheartening that these policies to provide support to Inuit companies to compete for government contracts have been completely disregarded in the awarding of this contract. We had expected that the spirit expressed...

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Awarding Of Federal Government Contract To Non-inuit Company

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

The Speaker

Sorry, Mr. Allooloo , your time has lapsed.

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Awarding Of Federal Government Contract To Non-inuit Company

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Awarding Of Federal Government Contract To Non-inuit Company

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

The Speaker

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Allooloo .

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Awarding Of Federal Government Contract To Non-inuit Company

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Members. We had expected that the spirit expressed during the negotiations would have been maintained. I'm extremely disappointed that the federal government has chosen to award such a major contract to an outside firm when it has been clearly demonstrated that Avati has the ability to carry out the work in a very satisfactory manner. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Awarding Of Federal Government Contract To Non-inuit Company

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

The Speaker

Thank you. I would like to recognize the grade six class from N. J. Macpherson school here in Yellowknife and their teacher Karen Johnson. Welcome to our Assembly.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South , Mr. Pudlat .

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Pauktuutit's Annual General Meeting

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to stand today and make a Member's statement. I was invited to the annual conference of the Pauktuutit Women's Association but I have other commitments. I would like them to know that I haven't forgotten their invitation and I would like to apologize for not being able to attend their annual general meeting. I would be able to attend at some other time. I would like to apologize that I can not attend and I would like to assure them I will be able to attend at some other time.

I know that they have a lot of work to accomplish which is very important in the world of events and they work very hard on important issues and they will be able to work on those issues at this conference. At this time, Madam Speaker, I would like to apologize to them. Thank you.

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Pauktuutit's Annual General Meeting

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Whitford .

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Judging A Public Speaking Contest

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 303

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, yesterday evening I had the pleasure of serving as a

judge for the public speaking contest at St. Joseph's School in Yellowknife South. Students from grades four, five and six made public speeches on a variety of subjects, everything from the future, pollution to subjects like tigers and jet planes, including one called "My Dog Rudy." Madam Speaker, I don't think I could have found a better way to spend two and half hours than to be there to listen to those young people practising public speaking.

Because I was a judge, I had to be critical and I had a list from which I had to award points for a variety of things from effectiveness of opening, subject material, choice of words, clearness of speech, grammatical accuracy, posture, gestures and, of course, effectiveness of endings. Not only did I enjoy being there, but I also learned quite a bit. I watched these young people performing their role in speaking on a subject of their choice and I marvelled at the talent that was going to come out of that contest and the preparation that these young people are undertaking through their teachers and the contest for their future in public life.

I just wanted to congratulate them for their efforts.

Not only did they learn, but I also learned quite a bit from them. I learned a few things not only from the subject matter but on how to public speak from them. I invited them to come over to the Assembly some day to watch their Members and maybe give some points to us on our performances. The contest will continue for the rest of the week as we get into the senior grades. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Judging A Public Speaking Contest

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Lewis .

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The Federal Budget Address

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Most people who listened to the Finance Minister 's budget speech yesterday were struck by the fact that probably a lot more was unsaid than was said. One of the things that was highlighted was the fact that they are going to reorganize the military, reduce it and eliminate racism. One of the good pieces of news in that budget address was that a whole squadron of twin otter planes would be located right here in Yellowknife. Many of us for years have said -- especially my friend Mr.

Whitford -- that safety and rescue in this part of the world should be given a far higher priority than it is, with the expectation that there will be a lot of activity in this part of the world over the next several years.

This should be considered a welcome move that we have now 160 people moving into the city to replace all of those people that our government has decided should work somewhere else. It is good news for this community because when we listened to the speech yesterday, no one could see anything good in it. But for this city, there is a lot of good and it is very welcome news.

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The Federal Budget Address

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear.

---Applause

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The Federal Budget Address

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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The Development Of An NWT Fur Strategy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I would like to express my concern about the fur industry. I know the Minister responsible has been to Brussels and Strasbourg and has been telling us the situation we find ourselves in as a result of leghold trap regulations from the European Parliament that we have tried to abide by.

Through research, Madam Speaker, I found out in the last four years the Government of the Northwest Territories has spent about $900,000 to buy about 70,000 quick kill traps. These traps were exchanged in the north. Further, there was about $1 million spent in workshops to train the trappers in how to use these new methods of trapping. In all, there is about $1.9 million spent to date on complying with the regulations established in Europe.

I am told there is an NWT fur strategy being developed, as a result of a study that was done last year. I just hope that instead of continuing to spend money to comply with the European Parliament regulations, this government sees fit to try to establish the fur industry in the north by developing a plan of action on how to process the furs in the north, so we can have a northern fur industry. I know our furs in the north have been sent down south to be mixed with the southern furs, which I hear are not as good quality as our northern furs. Therefore, the price of our furs has dropped to bring the price in the south up. In the long run, our trappers are losing out.

We should be focusing on doing it ourselves instead of depending solely on the European market to buy our furs. I would like to stress to the Minister to look into this area in developing an NWT fur strategy. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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The Development Of An NWT Fur Strategy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. Gargan .

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Judicial System In The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 304

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, in recent weeks I have spent a considerable amount of time thinking about the state of the correctional system in the Northwest Territories. Madam Speaker, the entire judicial process in the Northwest Territories is seen as a confusing system of conflicting European values by the majority of aboriginal people who run into trouble with it.

Madam Speaker, we, as a government, have a responsibility to tailor our programs and services to reflect the cultural identity of those it's suppose to serve. We have failed in this regard. So now, Madam Speaker, with that said, what do we do to alleviate the problems that make the situation of our correctional system culturally and morally irrelevant?

Madam Speaker, the system as it stands now is designed to incarcerate people in a facility that is usually far away from the home town of the offender. Granted, Madam Speaker, that some of the programs offered by the correctional centre, such as alcohol counselling and educational upgrading, are good programs. It nonetheless remains a fact that by the very nature of the correctional centre, it confines a person to a certain geographic area. By doing that, we provide no opportunity for the offender to make restitution to the community or to the victim. Sometimes by incarcerating a person, we create more of a hardship on their family than a long sentence accomplishes in rehabilitating.

There must be a way to split a sentence so an offender spends a certain amount of time behind bars and an equal amount of time making restitution to his victim. Maybe some sort of day parole system so that when a person is not working or making restitution to his family or victim, they are confined to house arrest.

We, as a government, must take the initiative...

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Judicial System In The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

The Speaker

I am sorry, Mr. Gargan , your time has lapsed.

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Judicial System In The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to complete my statement.

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Judicial System In The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

The Speaker

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan .

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Judicial System In The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Members. We, as a government, must take the initiative. We have to take a holistic approach for corrections in the Northwest Territories. Madam Speaker, I don't only mean corrections, the community or the individual as a whole, but the family as a whole. By continuing with band aid solutions, such as incarceration, we do little to solve the problem.

Let me give you an example. In the old days, when the elders' or women's council placed a sentence on an individual, that individual always knew that when their sentence was over, they would be accepted as a full member of the community again. Now there is no opportunity for the victims or offenders to go through this healing process. Madam Speaker, our present system does not address the concerns of those it is suppose to serve. We must take steps to change it. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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Judicial System In The Nwt

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik , Mr. Koe .

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Ed&t Classification Of Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I rise today, Madam Speaker, to talk about the existing classification of communities by the Department of Economic Development and Tourism. The system of classification of communities by the department was initiated in 1986 as part of the Economic Development and Tourism strategy. This classification system was used solely in relation to the business development fund policy.

In 1991, the communities were grouped into level I, level II and level III communities. In 1991, the policy was revised and the grouping of communities were made according to socio-economic indicators, such as population, per capita income, unemployment rates and the number of businesses in that community. If a business needed financial assistance from the department, they were required to contribute some form of equity. The equity requirements were determined by the community groupings. For example, residents in a level I community were required to put more money in than ones in a level III community.

When the business development fund was revised in September 1993, the requirement for grouping communities was also changed to recognize the level of existing business infrastructure in a community, and the road or transportation links into that community. This was done as a result of requests from clients and regional staff. That the policy better recognizes the potential for new economic and business development, rather than focus on the existing well-being of the community.

Under the 1993 revision, equity requirements remain linked to the community groupings, however the list of community groups was removed and instead the Minister issues instructions regarding the regrouping of communities whenever required.

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue.

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Ed&t Classification Of Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

The Speaker

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue with his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Koe .

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Ed&t Classification Of Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, honourable colleagues. In November 1993, again, a new list of community groupings was developed, and certain communities were moved. Basically, there were ten communities moved from level II classification to level III classification. These level I communities are communities which have well developed community business infrastructure with air and road transportation links. Level II are communities that have a lesser developed business infrastructure and have some air and road links. Level III communities have the least developed business infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, I believe this system of classification works if everything is fairly equal. However, in business and in the economy things don't work that way. There are businesses in all communities and they all need the right set of circumstances for them to flourish and prosper. In some cases, I'm sure that many of them would appreciate the expertise and assistance of some level of government. But because of the classification of the communities by the Department of Economic Development, not all businesses can access government assistance on a fair and equitable basis. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Ed&t Classification Of Communities

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 305

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North , Mr. Ballantyne .

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GNWT Position On Tobacco Taxes

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 306

Michael Ballantyne

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today to support the position taken by the government, as outlined by the Minister of Finance on tobacco taxes, yesterday.

---Applause

I am sure that there will be many critics of the decision. I am sure the smokers of the Northwest Territories are going to see their fellow and sister smokers smoking at half price across the country. I am sure there will be those who say we won't be able to control smuggling in the Northwest Territories. But I think the decision was the correct one for three reasons.

The first reason, as outlined by the Minister of Finance , is health. We not only have a high percentage of our population smoking in the Northwest Territories, more so than anywhere else in the country, we have a higher percentage of our young people smoking in the territories than anywhere else in the country. The first time we had a noticeable decrease in smoking among young people was when we raised the taxes on cigarettes.

The second reason is that, the nature of this deal, which was a bilateral deal between the federal government and Quebec, solved the problem in Quebec but created a whole series of problems across the country. We have some problems with how our confederation works when that is the approach.

The third issue is that of finances. The Minister, quite rightly, pointed out that $2 million in revenue that we'll lose, but in the long term there's a much more significant financial cost. Right now, we are blessed by having a young, relatively healthy population and our health costs in the Northwest Territories are a lot less than in many other jurisdictions.

But that won't always be the case. All these young people, eventually are going to be middle aged people like many of us, and old people like some of us. At that time, we will really see the real cost of increased smoking now. There will be such a significant jump in our health care costs, 15 or 20 years down the line, that I don't think we'll be able to absorb that cost.

Madam Speaker, can I seek unanimous consent to continue my statement?

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GNWT Position On Tobacco Taxes

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 306

The Speaker

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays? Continue, Mr. Ballantyne .

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GNWT Position On Tobacco Taxes

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 306

Michael Ballantyne

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Not only do I say that at this point in time we should support the Finance Minister , but we should also recognize that the Finance Minister and the government may need some flexibility three or four months down the line.

Right now, there seems to be agreement between the western provinces to hold firm on tobacco taxes and to try to control smuggling. But in three or four months down the line, it might be that the pressures are too great and that coalition breaks apart. I think at that time, everyone will have to recognize that if everybody else falls like dominoes, we'll probably have no alternative down the line but to do the same. But I firmly believe that the decision taken by the government right now is the right one, and I fully support it. Thank you very much.

---Applause

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GNWT Position On Tobacco Taxes

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 306

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik , Mr. Koe .

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Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 306

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . The Department of Economic Development and Tourism has a policy which classifies communities into level I, level II or level III communities based on economic indicators. My question to the Minister is, is there a review which has been done to re-evaluate this policy?

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Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 306

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 306

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe there is a review that was undergone some time ago because there was concern raised about -- as the honourable Member said -- inequities in how we define certain levels of communities. If the honourable Member wants, I can provide him with a copy of that review. Thank you.

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Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 306

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 306

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi. I am sure Members of this House would appreciate a copy of that review. It's very hard for small businesses in level I communities to access government funds because of this policy. My supplementary is, what has been done to assist small businesses in level I communities to qualify for some of the financial assistance programs that this government has?

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Supplementary To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 306

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 306

John Todd

Keewatin Central

If the level I community that Mr. Koe is talking about is his particular riding, if it is Inuvik, as I've stated earlier in the House, we have given new authority to the regional superintendents, financial authority which is supposed to, theoretically, speed up the process of providing grants and loans. We've converted a new policy for grants which provides up to $5,000 worth of grant funding for small business. We've put these policies in place effective early December. We're confident they'll meet the needs of all communities in the Arctic, including level I communities. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Thank you. So for the record then, the new grants and loans policy or program for small businesses is not based on the classification of communities in level I, II and III, because right now with the existing policy a lot of businesses in level I communities don't qualify for a lot of the grants and loans and other financial assistance from the department. For the record, are the new programs going to do away with the existing classification system?

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Supplementary To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. No, the new programs are not going to do away with the classification system. I don't have at the tip of my tongue each and every program we have. I have instructed the department to change some of the programs to more clearly reflect the needs of the small business community. I can get for the honourable Member a breakdown of them as they relate to Level I communities. However, I would say, in fairness to the honourable Member, that certainly my focus and the emphasis has been on the Level II and III communities because that is still where we believe the attention should be.

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Further Return To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

The Speaker

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I, too, agree that there is a need for development in Level II and III communities. But, the fact of the matter is, a good portion of our population lives in the major communities, Inuvik being one. Inuvik presently is undergoing a period of recession, unlike maybe Yellowknife for example. There are still a lot of unemployed people in these communities and a lot of small businesses that wish to start up in these communities because that is where the people are. So, I would wish that in your review you would take into consideration the economic situation of the various communities.

My question, again, is will the Minister look at the policies and programs to assist communities like Inuvik and the surrounding district, in developing and assisting small businesses?

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Supplementary To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I think it is recognized that with a town like Inuvik and a number of others, the department has to be a little more flexible than it has been in the past. I will give the honourable Member assurances that when we are reviewing -- as we constantly are, by the way -- these programs so they're more reflective of the needs and, more importantly, the economic conditions of the territories, that Inuvik and small towns similar to Inuvik will be treated accordingly. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Question 181-12(5): Review Of Policy On Classification Of Community Levels

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Lewis .

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Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Finance . We listened carefully last week to the Minister's budget address. On page nine there is a list of things that are not going to happen, no increases to personal income taxes, no increases to the one per cent payroll tax, no increases to fuel taxes and so on. There's a whole list of things that aren't going to be taxed. In fact, he only announced one tax change, the two per cent increase on corporate income over $200,000.

He mentions in his budget that we're going to lose $2 million but he also says that there will be no increase of the tax burden this year because of the negative impact on individual persons and the economy. My question to the Minister is, since he knew all about the federal initiatives before this budget was prepared, why wasn't the tax initiative that is being discussed today and that was discussed yesterday included in this budget?

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Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

John Pollard

Hay River

Madam Speaker, simply because I wasn't sure what we would be doing. I wasn't sure what we would be able to do. I wasn't sure what the federal government was going to do exactly and I wasn't sure what the western provinces and some of the eastern provinces were going to do. I was torn and did not want to state something in the budget that I might have had to retract later. So, I dealt with it by saying that the potential loss to us was $2 million at that particular time. This is a situation, and I think that Mr. Ballantyne has recognized this, that is very fluid right now and it's moving all the time. There was nothing certain that I could put in the budget, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Since a decision has been made to ask for the support of this Assembly for tax increases, would the Minister indicate whether this is simply a tax to replace the money that would be lost because of the federal initiative? And if this particular bill that's being proposed would in fact be revenue neutral, how does he expect to increase our revenue as a result of his proposed amendments?

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Supplementary To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 307

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

John Pollard

Hay River

Madam Speaker, I've recommended to Madam Premier and the Cabinet, and they have accepted the fact, that we will not lower our taxes. I now will be suggesting to them that we increase our taxes to backfill the $2 million that we're going to lose. There may be a situation, Madam Speaker, where I might suggest to them that we move into the federal tax room as well and bring prices back to where they were before the announcement by the federal government. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

That was an answer, but it wasn't an answer to the question I asked. What I'm trying to get at is, is this initiative of our government going to be a revenue neutral initiative so that we would not in fact be doing more than simply replacing the monies we would have lost because of the federal legislation?

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Supplementary To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

John Pollard

Hay River

Madam Speaker, I haven't gathered all the data yet and, until such time as I do, the very least that I will be recommending to Madam Premier and Cabinet is that it become revenue neutral. And, based on the information that is placed before me, I may suggest to them that we move into the federal tax room and pick up extra dollars. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

The Speaker

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

I would like to ask the Minister how he's going to calculate what revenue he needs? I asked this question to the previous Minister of Finance a few years ago and he found out that his staff were in fact more clever than he thought they were. My question is, are you going to be able to judge the impact of this change on smokers because the assumption is that it will be reduced? In other words, once you tax something, then smoking will be reduced and therefore, you have to use some factor to decide how much money you're going to raise.

How are you going to figure out how much money you're going to raise if you don't know what the impact of this tax increase will have to reduce the number of people who smoke?

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Supplementary To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

John Pollard

Hay River

Madam Speaker, I really don't know all the formulas that they use over at fiscal policy, but they have some formulas. If Mr. Lewis is ever over that way and drops into Jean Chretien's office, he will see all these formulas written on his board. I don't know all the formulas that they use, I know that they do have some method of calculation. Many times they go by historical data and they know the number of people in the NWT and they know, historically, the amount of tobacco they consume, et cetera. From that, they can give me a pretty good idea of what the impact will be but it's not a science. It gives you a good estimate, that's all, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Question 182-12(5): Exclusion Of Tax Initiatives In Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Zoe .

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Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mahsi. In 1993, Madam Speaker, the Association of Municipalities asked the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs to amend the Cities, Towns and Villages Act to more clearly define accountability to establish qualifications for the issuance of chauffeurs' permits. Many municipalities are concerned that a municipal by-law may be challenged if a municipality attempts to disqualify an applicant for a chauffeur's permit due to a criminal conviction.

Madam Speaker, on July 22, 1993, the Minister at the time responded, stating that the department officials would review this particular request. My question to the current Minister is if he could tell the House when this particular review will be completed? Thank you.

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Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, recognizing at the time you were not the Minister responsible, you may want to attempt to answer this question.

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Return To Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe that there were a number of questions that were raised with regard to this particular resolution made by the NWT Association of Municipalities, some of which included areas that might infringe on individual's Charter of Rights. I understand that the department is, at this point, reviewing this particular legislation and should be able to advise the Association of Municipalities at their spring conference.

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Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 308

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Is it my understanding that it is still under review and the Minister has indicated that he is not sure as to when this review will be concluded?

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Supplementary To Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Further Return To Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, that is correct.

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Further Return To Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Question 183-12(5): Review Of Legislation Re Chauffeurs' Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Thank you. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake , Mr. Dent .

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Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health . Madam Speaker, during the last session, the Special Committee on Health and Social Services tabled its final report which suggested there was considerable room for improvement and change within the Department of Health. I was wondering if the Minister could advise if a functional review of the operations of the department has been undertaken?

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Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Health , Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

John Pollard

Hay River

Yes, Madam Speaker, that functional review is almost completed. I received the first draft of it last Friday, and the department anticipates that within another ten days they will have the final report for my consideration. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Could we get just a touch more information about the functional review? Is it actually reviewing all levels of the department from the deputy minister down to the line level?

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Supplementary To Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Health , Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

John Pollard

Hay River

Yes, it is, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, could we find out from the Minister who is conducting the functional review?

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Supplementary To Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Health , Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

John Pollard

Hay River

Madam Speaker, I have forgotten the name of the company. I will have to take the question as notice. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Question 184-12(5): Functional Review Of Department Of Health's Operations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot , Mr. Ningark .

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Question 185-12(5): Review Of Social Assistance For Part-time Workers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my question is to the Premier in the absence of the Social Services' Minister. Community economic well-being is fundamentally important to me and to the people who elected me. That was one of the reasons why I think they put me here. Madam Speaker, we penalize people who really need the assistance of the government who are living off the welfare system. We penalize those who are able to find jobs by not allowing them to earn a bit of money on the side. Every time recipients earn money, they are penalized the next assistance pay day when they are deducted.

I would like to ask the honourable Minister if the Cabinet will review the matter and get back to the House.

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Question 185-12(5): Review Of Social Assistance For Part-time Workers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Thank you. Madam Premier .

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Return To Question 185-12(5): Review Of Social Assistance For Part-time Workers

Question 185-12(5): Review Of Social Assistance For Part-time Workers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Madam Speaker, the honourable Rebecca Mike is not in the House today because she will be spending a couple of days at the conference with Pauktuutit in Iqaluit. I will review the matter. Just to note, on the issue of income reform, we hope that once we have been able to bring that forward we will address some of those major concerns, because I think that I fully agree with the Member that, often times, the difference between going to work and staying at home and living off welfare doesn't give people much incentive to be productive citizens. I hope the paper will come a long way in trying to address that. Thank you.

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Return To Question 185-12(5): Review Of Social Assistance For Part-time Workers

Question 185-12(5): Review Of Social Assistance For Part-time Workers

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Zoe .

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Question 186-12(5): Amendments To Motor Vehicles Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 309

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Again, Madam Speaker, in 1993, the Association of Municipalities asked the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs to encourage amendments to the Motor Vehicles Act to allow owners of vehicles to be held liable for contravention of parking by-laws. On June 22 of last year, Madam Speaker, the Minister of Transportation responded, noting an oversight in one

section of the act and agreeing that the

section should be amended. My question for the Minister of Transportation is when is he anticipating bringing these amendments to the House? Thank you.

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Question 186-12(5): Amendments To Motor Vehicles Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Transportation , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 186-12(5): Amendments To Motor Vehicles Act

Question 186-12(5): Amendments To Motor Vehicles Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Madam Speaker, I don't know the exact date when we are bringing these amendments forward so I will look into it and get back to the Member.

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Return To Question 186-12(5): Amendments To Motor Vehicles Act

Question 186-12(5): Amendments To Motor Vehicles Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. New question, the honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Zoe .

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Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Again, my question will be directed to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. In 1993, Madam Speaker, once again, the Association of Municipalities requested the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs prepare an amendment to the Property Assessment and Taxation Act to allow that land owned by municipalities and occupied by the municipal employees to be recorded on the assessment roll in the name of the municipal corporation.

On August 18, 1993, Madam Speaker, the Minister at the time stated that, once certain items were clarified, he would have the department prepare and would be prepared to recommend a legislative proposal for Cabinet consideration. I would like to ask the current Minister, Madam Speaker, whether his department has completed the proposed amendment? Thank you.

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Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Return To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

I believe the previous Minister had indicated that a legislative proposal would be forthcoming. However, there were a number of questions that the department had before completing the legislative proposal, and as far as I know, those clarifications have not been made. The department is still waiting for a response before preparing a legislative proposal.

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Return To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Madam Speaker, if that is the case, then when does the Minister expect this to be completed? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Further Return To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Once the department has received clarification on the questions that they had, they will be putting together a legislative proposal. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I understand that the department is waiting for clarification on this issue, but my question was when does he anticipate this to be completed? Does he have a time frame that he is looking at, Madam Speaker? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Further Return To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I don't know how long the preparation of a legislative proposal takes, so I am not able to give a time frame. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Question 187-12(5): Proposed Amendment To Property Assessment And Taxation Act

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Zoe , new question.

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Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Again, my question will be directed to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Currently, our municipal elections in hamlets and settlements are held on the second Monday in December, a time when many people are on the land or away on Christmas vacation. Voter turn-out is often low for these reasons. A resolution at the NWT Association of Municipalities, Madam Speaker, requested that the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs prepare an amendment to the Local Authorities Elections Act to allow communities to set election dates which are more compatible to regional needs.

Madam Speaker, on August 18, 1993, the Minister at the time stated that he has instructed the department to review this request. I would like to ask the current Minister whether his department has completed this review. Thank you.

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Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Return To Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. To my knowledge, the review is still taking place. Thank you.

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Return To Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 310

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When does the Minister expect the review to be completed? It has almost been seven months since the request came through. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Further Return To Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think part of the problem was that the department wanted to consult with Members of the Association of Municipalities. They were going to identify a contact person who would represent the association. To my understanding, this person has not yet been identified. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Question 188-12(5): Review Of Local Authorities Elections Act Re Elections Dates

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot , Mr. Ningark .

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Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is directed either to the Finance Minister or the Economic Development Minister . Madam Speaker, as part of my

preamble, I would like to say that Arctic Co-op will be holding their social function at the Annex D in the Yellowknife Inn at 7:00 tonight.

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Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Madam Speaker, I am very familiar with this issue. It is my understanding that the ACL has been trying for some time now to seek federal funding for this initiative through the CAEDS program, and other programs, and haven't been successful, to date. It is also my understanding that they need about $6 million to $8 million. We simply don't have that kind of money to provide this kind of assistance to the ACL at this time. Thank you.

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Return To Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark .

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Supplementary To Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Is the honourable Minister planning to be at the social function tonight? Thank you.

---Laughter

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Supplementary To Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism , Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Absolutely, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Question 189-12(5): Assistance For Establishment Of Credit Union

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave , Mr. Zoe .

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Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This question is directed, again, to my colleague responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs. The Association of Municipalities requested the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs to work with the association to develop terms of reference for all financial audits and operational evaluations of municipalities.

On September 14 of 1993, Madam Speaker, the Minister at the time stated that the department is prepared to work with the association to improve current audit terms of reference and guidelines for operational evaluations. I would like to ask the current Minister whether his department has started working with the association to improve the terms of reference and guidelines? Thank you.

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Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Return To Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. For this particular resolution, much of the audit terms are defined by the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants. I believe a review has started with the department's staff and the executive director to establish a process. Thank you.

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Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Madam Speaker, I didn't quite catch the Minister's comments. Did I understand that the department is developing a process? My understanding is that the department has already made a commitment on September 14. They stated they were prepared to work with the association to improve the current audit terms of reference and guidelines for operational evaluations. I just wanted to know if the department has started to work with the association to work on these terms of reference for audits and the guidelines. He didn't answer my first question, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Further Return To Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 311

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was trying to say that the department would have very limited ability to define audit terms because those are already defined by the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants. From

what I understand, the department has made contact with the executive director to start this process. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe .

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Supplementary To Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am glad that his department has finally contacted the association's executive director to start working on this initiative. Could I ask has the Minister indicated to his officials the time frame within which this review is going to take place?

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Supplementary To Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Further Return To Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Madam Speaker, I have not given direction as to when it should be completed. Contact has been made with the executive director of the Association of Municipalities by the department staff and they should have completed the terms of reference by the spring conference. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Question 190-12(5): Terms Of Reference For Municipal Audits And Evaluations

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources . It pertains to a statement made on trapping. I received a letter, like other Members, called European Market for Wild Fur, dated February 22. We all agree that we have to ensure that trapping continues as a viable occupation. There are things happening in Europe, specifically with the International Standards Organization, the ISO, which is responsible for developing humane trapping standards.

I understand that there was a meeting in Ottawa on February 8 to 14 of the technical committee of the ISO, to identify acceptable trapping methods that would meet the requirements of the EEC regulations. It says that the object of the meeting was to reach agreement on humane trapping standards and a vote by ISO member countries accepting the standards. In this letter it says, "And, again, animal rights supporters were successful in achieving a situation where no vote could be taken without fear of losing the decision."

I would like to ask the Minister responsible exactly what happened at this meeting? It was a very important meeting and it seems that the meeting broke down and the intention of the meeting did not happen, which was agreement on acceptable humane trapping standards. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

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Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Madam Speaker, out of the thousands of pages of briefing notes that I have around me, I can't find the proper one. The meeting that the Member is referring to was a technical committee set up by the member countries of an organization called the International Standards Organization, which has about 120 countries belonging to it. The technical committee was struck to come up with some draft standards they could recommend to the full membership on what would be acceptable standards for quick kill and humane traps.

The work has been done over the period of the last few years and it is particularly political because, in my view, many of the member countries -- what some of the Europeans called the Anglo-Saxon countries -- are particularly strong about protecting wildlife. Having very little left themselves, they have -- perhaps out of guilt -- taken the view that everything should be saved in the world and people like ourselves should be prevented from using any more wildlife that we have in our country.

These countries spearheaded the movement to try to wipe out the fur industry a few years ago. It has, for instance, led to the boycott of baby seal pelts being imported into European countries. They, in fact, killed the market for seal pelts internationally. It was their view that by setting these high standards for trapping, none of the countries, including Canada, could meet the demands that the European Parliament set out. And, that we would fall far short of the mark and therefore, trapping would be wiped out.

In fact, we've surprised them with our own determination. Research into trapping methods had been going on long before the Europeans clicked on to that particular fad. What has been happening recently is that many of these countries, with their activists, have started lobbying to suggest that no standards or traps are acceptable at all. They are changing the rules in the middle of the game and we've objected to that.

I think what has happened in this particular meeting in Ottawa is that some of the animal rights activists have moved in from Europe and parts of Canada and the US to lobby against any type of standards being adopted and put forward for recommendation to the full membership of the International Standards Organization.

So, rather than taking a chance on losing the vote at this time, some of the countries have asked to defer the vote. They will be meeting with Foreign Affairs Ministers and Trade Ministers of respective countries to ensure there is some certainty to the way in which the vote will take place in the next few months. Thank you.

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Return To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .

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Supplementary To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 312

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Referring to this letter I mentioned earlier, it says here also that, "All jurisdictions in Canada would apply for a one year suspension of enforcement of the EEC regulations, based on progress that

has been made over the past several years in switching from leghold to humane traps."

I take it that the reason for that is different jurisdictions within Canada that are supposed to comply with these regulations are not in a position to comply at this time, and therefore the best solution is to apply for this one year suspension. I would like to ask the Minister if that's correct. If so, would he explain that to us? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Madam Speaker, countries like the US and Russia are all subject to the regulations that the European Parliament passed some years ago. It is my understanding that all countries are putting forward the argument that they are making significant effort and are showing some progress in meeting the conditions set out in the European regulations and that they all will be applying for a one year extension.

In Canada, it is my expectation that the federal government, through the trade Minister and through External Affairs, will be making some moves to elevate this issue to a major trade issue and taking it up with the respective governments within the European community in the next few weeks. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .

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Supplementary To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. This is with regard to the application for a one year suspension of enforcement. This regulation is supposed to be in effect in 1995. Canada is not in a position to comply with these regulations, so there is a clause where you can apply for a one year suspension to apply on the enforcement of this regulation. That means it is up to the European Parliament to accept this application. They could reject this application. It says in the letter that there is a good chance that this application will be accepted, but what if it isn't? Then what happens? Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

The Speaker

May I remind Members, when you are referring to documents and asking questions to Ministers, those documents should be tabled in this House so Members are aware of the items discussed. Minister of Renewable Resources , Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the European Parliament is a fairly new political body that some people have suggested is still searching for some reason for its existence. They are a Parliament that debates a great many issues. For instance, when I was there, one of their committees was discussing, at great length, what would be acceptable standards for the transportation of animals. For instance, how long an animal should be allowed to stand, what distance may be covered and the type of environment these animals should have when being transported, whether half a mile is an acceptable distance to be transported, et cetera.

They also discussed rhinoceros horns, although we know there aren't any in Europe and haven't been for thousands of years, they spend a great time talking about these things. I am suggesting some of the issues they discuss...I have told them they have difficulty in focusing and very often make decisions that years later they find have had all types of implications, which they have tried to ignore.

When I met with the main Commissioner involved, he advised me that one of his underlings, a man named Weinstaeker, who is reported by some other sources to be a very avid, fanatical animal rights activist, was the civil servant who was going to decide whether or not there was a basis to go forward with the recommendation to the Commissioner. There are some of us who are praying that there is some objectivity left with the individuals involved. The civil servants and the bureaucracy have been well infiltrated by the animal rights activists.

In this case, we know that it is not an objective setting at all, but perhaps the man is very professional and will disregard his own very personal biases and forward what we think is a very legitimate cause, since it is their own regulation. Hopefully, they will accept that there is a lot of substance in arguing that Canada has made significant progress in working towards meeting the demands of the European Parliament and the regulations they set out and that they will give us the one year extension that the regulations say can be given. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Question 191-12(5): Outcome Of Iso Meeting On Acceptable Humane Trapping Standards

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

The Speaker

Thank you. May I remind Ministers, when answering questions, to be brief in their replies. We had points of orders raised last week in this regard. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Lewis .

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Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yesterday, we thought the federal budget was so important that we broke for an hour to listen to it. We are very interested in what that budget means. We are not all financial experts. So I would like to ask the Minister of Finance whether he intends to provide us with an analysis of that budget, so we can learn what the impact will be on the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 313

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I provided the analysis to the Standing Committee on Finance and Cabinet this morning. I would be glad to give it to other

Members this afternoon. Thank you.

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Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 314

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 314

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Madam Speaker, I was up early this morning, but while about my chores, I did hear Mr. Pollard 's voice on the radio. He mentioned a few things that may have some impact on us. Why is it that he chose to use the media to give his preliminary analysis, rather than doing it in this House first? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 314

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Question 192-12(5): Analysis Of Federal Budget

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 314

John Pollard

Hay River

Madam Speaker, there were numerous calls from the press to all Finance Ministers across the coun