Debates of March 22nd, 1994

This is page numbers 753 - 787 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was development .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Congratulating Candidates In Nti And Kia Elections

Congratulating Candidates In Kia And Nti Elections

Congratulations To Candidates In Nti Election

Writer's News Agency

Article On Yellowknife

Beaver Tail Jamboree And Aboriginal Week

The Third Nunavut Trade Show In Iqaluit

Reasons For Privatization Of Power Corporation

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Percentage Of NWT Residents Addicted To Alcohol And Drugs

Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Policy For Over Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Return To Written Question 17-12(5): Award Of Clean-up Contract For Core Campsites - North Warning System

Return To Written Question 18-12(5): Information On Each Business Taken Over By The NWT Development Corporation

Return To Written Question 19-12(5): Operating Guidelines For The NWT Development Corporation

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Bill 18: Write-off Of Debts Act, 1993-94

Bill 19:

An Act To Amend The Tobacco Tax Act

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

To Adopt Recommendation 7

To Adopt Recommendation 8

To Adopt Recommendation 9

To Adopt Recommendation 10

To Implement A Strategy To Terminate Piruqsaijit Secondment By End Of 1994-95 Fiscal Year

To Adopt Recommendation 17

To Adopt Recommendation 35

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq , Mr. Arvaluk , Mr. Ballantyne , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Gargan , Mr. Lewis , Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell , Hon. Rebecca Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Hon. Richard Nerysoo , Mr. Ng , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Hon. John Todd , Mr. Whitford

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 753

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot , Mr. Ng .

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Congratulating Candidates In Nti And Kia Elections

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. On behalf of all Kitikmeot residents, I wish to congratulate Mr. Jose Kusugak on his election to the presidency of Nunavut Tunngavik Inc. I'm sure he will work diligently and cooperatively with his new colleagues, members of NIC, the regional associations, the Nunavut Caucus, and all other organizations towards fulfilling his duties as NTI president.

Madam Speaker, I also wish to advise Members that the Kitikmeot Inuit Association also held elections yesterday. Inuit in Kitikmeot elected Mr. Pat Lyall as the new vice-president, Mrs. Millie Evalik as secretary-treasurer, Mrs. Clara O'Gorman as the Cambridge Bay director and Mr. Adam Tootalik as the Taloyoak director. I know these individuals will contribute significantly to the overall future success of KIA and their endeavours to represent the Inuit of Kitikmeot.

Finally, I also wish to congratulate the five unsuccessful candidates in the NTI election and the 21 unsuccessful candidates in the KIA election. Their participation gave voters the freedom of choice during yesterday's elections. Madam Speaker, I ask you to join me in congratulating all candidates in yesterday's NTI and KIA elections. Thank you.

---Applause

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Congratulating Candidates In Nti And Kia Elections

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot , Mr. Ningark .

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Congratulating Candidates In Kia And Nti Elections

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would also like to echo what my colleague from the Kitikmeot already said. I would like to congratulate from the bottom of my heart the successful candidates who were elected at the KIA election held March 21, 1994: Pat Lyall, vice president-elect from Taloyoak, which is my riding; Adam Tootalik, director-elect also from Taloyoak; Millie Evalik, secretary treasurer-elect from Cambridge Bay; and, Clara O'Gorman, director-elect from Cambridge Bay. I know the newly-elected members of the Kitikmeot Inuit Association will do well and work to the benefit of all the people of the Kitikmeot.

Again, Madam Speaker, congratulations go to the people I have already mentioned. I would also like to congratulate those unsuccessful candidates and Jose Kusugak, now the president of Nunavut Tunngavik Inc., formerly from Repulse Bay. I know Mr. Kusugak will do a good job for the people of Nunavut. Thank you.

---Applause

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Congratulating Candidates In Kia And Nti Elections

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member for Baffin South , Mr. Pudlat .

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Congratulations To Candidates In Nti Election

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. Along with my colleagues representing Nunavut, I would also like to congratulate the candidates. Their responsibility to prepare the people of Nunavut is going to be very difficult and I would like to thank the previous president who prepared the way towards Nunavut, as well as James Eetoolook, the vice-president, who has helped pave the way towards Nunavut. I would like to congratulate all the people of Nunavut for having come this far. I would like to thank the previous president as well as the unsuccessful candidates.

Even though they did not win the presidency, they will still be required to assist the president-elect along the way to Nunavut. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Congratulations To Candidates In Nti Election

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Lewis .

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Writer's News Agency

Article On Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 753

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. On the weekend, I was shown an

article that appeared in a paper in Cape Town, South Africa last month. It is about the city of Yellowknife. I was rather alarmed to read the description which appeared there and which was attributed to the Writers' News Agency, which people know is the recognized agency for good, factual reporting.

The

article described Yellowknife as a riotous town with a night life that was unmatched anywhere in the world, that there were fights all over the place, that there was one local bar where fighting was part of the local entertainment. The

article goes on to say that 80 per cent of the people in the Northwest Territories are addicted to alcohol or drugs.

Having listened to the comments yesterday about violence and the kind of society we have, it bothers me somewhat that here we are finding reputable news agencies spreading information throughout the world, which may have some glimmer of truth to it, but really is not based on fact. What bothers me most is that the factual information that appeared in this

article was supplied by the Government of the Northwest Territories and there are individual people who were given credit for this particular information, which I don't believe is statistically accurate.

So, Madam Speaker, it concerns me that if public servants are going to provide information to anybody, they had better be sure that they've got their facts right. Thank you.

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Writer's News Agency

Article On Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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Beaver Tail Jamboree And Aboriginal Week

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to bring to the attention of the Legislative Assembly that over the weekend I was back in my home community of Fort Simpson and they had their annual Beaver Tail Jamboree, their spring carnival. It was good to get back into community celebration and spending a few days, getting back into the grass roots involvement of the people. It was very, very enjoyable.

The thing that I wanted to mention is that the student council in Fort Simpson have declared this week aboriginal week. It started off with a feast on Sunday, with different speakers. It was a very successful feast. The whole gym and school were full of people from the community and from other communities. Later on that evening, there was a drum dance that was put together with some drummers from Fort Simpson and other communities.

It was a really good event that happened over the weekend with the beginning of aboriginal week in recognition of last year being the year of Indigenous People declared by the United Nations. Nothing happened as a result of that, so this year the students decided to have a week dedicated for aboriginal recognition in Fort Simpson and the region. So I would like to recognize them today. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Beaver Tail Jamboree And Aboriginal Week

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit , Mr. Patterson .

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The Third Nunavut Trade Show In Iqaluit

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am pleased to inform this House that the third Nunavut trade show will begin this evening in Iqaluit with a three-day business conference. For the trade show on the weekend, there are 69 booths now registered including delegates from most Baffin communities, other parts of the Northwest Territories and also numerous companies from Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto. Very topical subjects for the business conference occurring this week are: effective customer service; how to prepare a business plan; finding and keeping the best employees; government assistance for new businesses; and, what computers can do for you.

The Baffin Chamber of Commerce annual general meeting will take place on Wednesday night. Thursday night will feature the opening of the new NorthwesTel building. Friday night, a highlight, a keynote address by the Honourable John Todd . I want to thank Mr. Todd for taking the trouble from his busy

schedule to attend this meeting. I would also like to publicly thank him for his help and that of his department in assisting the Baffin Chamber of Commerce, who are sponsoring this show, to purchase the booth materials for use in future trade shows and other events.

Saturday night there will be a service auction. I should tell Members I will be leaving tomorrow to attend this event. My services will be on the block at the auction. I am hoping there will be a higher bid than 25 cents. Later that night, in lieu of a prominent politician, the organizers inform me they have arranged for a comedian from Yuk Yuks to provide a colour commentary.

Madam Speaker, this promises to be a very exciting event. Between 800 and 1,200 people are expected to visit the trade show on the weekend. There are at least 150 people who will be in town for the event. At the trade show itself, there will be door prizes and draws. This promises to be a fabulous event. The best Nunavut trade show ever. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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The Third Nunavut Trade Show In Iqaluit

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North , Mr. Ballantyne .

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Reasons For Privatization Of Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 754

Michael Ballantyne

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, today I would like to make a few comments about the Power Corporation. The Government Leader has indicated that she will introduce a discussion paper in the House. I have some concerns and I would like to put them on the record.

There are normally not that many reasons why one privatizes a Power Corporation, but those that there are, I think probably follow in this pattern. Either that the government-run organization is inefficient. If that is the case here, then we want to hear about it because we certainly have to deal with that. Another reason is that a government or Power Corporation tries to gain management experience and access to capital by selling the corporation or a majority share to a large utility company.

The third reason is that a government needs to sell off its assets to pay out an accumulated debt, which I don't think is the case here. The fourth reason are ideological reasons. This government has never been an illogical government. It has always been a government that is practical and tries to solve problems.

I will tell you my concerns right now about the timing of the concept of privatization. When division is looming, the Power Corporation is a very viable asset. There is going to be some discussion between east and west as to how that asset will be apportioned in the long term. I am also sure that the next Nunavut government would like to make the decision as to what they want to do with their Power Corporation.

Secondly, the Power Corporation has been a very useful tool, public policy. The example is the Dogrib Power Corporation, which eventually will supply power to the city of Yellowknife and hopefully if mining does take off, will eventually supply power to the mining areas. So it is a tremendous tool for the GNWT to unify the regions of the territories. We have precious few of those in these changing times.

I also think we should wait until the formula financing agreement has been finalized and the cost of division has been agreed to. If we don't, any money that comes into our coffers will either be quickly spent on a multitude of projects or will be quickly discounted by the federal government in their negotiations with the Finance Minister .

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Reasons For Privatization Of Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 755

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Ballantyne .

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Reasons For Privatization Of Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 755

Michael Ballantyne

Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think also it would make some sense to wait until the constitutional discussions in the west have reached some sort of conclusion. Right now, the political landscape is very uncertain. I don't think this is the best time to go forward with this type of initiative.

I am also a little bit surprised because there has been very little public pressure that I am aware of to privatize the corporation. There has been none that I am aware of from this side of the House. In fact, I think it has been clear by most of the MLAs that there is not a lot of enthusiasm for privatization of the Power Corporation at this particular time. We believe, and we have said many times, there are many important priorities facing this government and we don't think, at this point in time, that it is appropriate to take the time and energy it will take to privatize the corporation.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I, along with other Members and the public, are looking forward to this discussion paper on privatization. We are interested, and I am sure the public is interested, in the way the government is bringing forward this initiative at this time. I guess most importantly, we are very interested in the government's concept of exactly how they feel this will help the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Reasons For Privatization Of Power Corporation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 755

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin Central , Ms. Mike .

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Return To Question 322-12(5): Policy For Advertising In Southern Newspapers

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 755

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Whitford on March 18, 1994 regarding a policy for advertising in southern newspapers.

The Department of Personnel is committed to hiring north and the affirmative action policy. Advertising outside the Northwest Territories is only undertaken when:

1. Advertising in the NWT has failed to attract qualified applicants; or,

When previous attempts to fill vacancies in the specific area are unsuccessful, Personnel will advertise north and south simultaneously. Such was the case of a transportation planner, recently advertised in the Toronto Globe and Mail. This position requires a degree in transportation planning, engineering of a related discipline with five years of experience in the areas of transportation planning, design, construction, operations and program development. This level of education and experience is not readily available in the north. The position is classified at pay level 29 and is not a junior level position.

In keeping with the affirmative action policy and the government's northern hire philosophy, all northern applicants are given priority consideration. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Return To Question 322-12(5): Policy For Advertising In Southern Newspapers

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 755

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Lewis .

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Question 345-12(5): Percentage Of NWT Residents Addicted To Alcohol And Drugs

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 755

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Social Services , could she tell me what percentage of the people of the Northwest Territories are addicted to alcohol or drugs?

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Question 345-12(5): Percentage Of NWT Residents Addicted To Alcohol And Drugs

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 755

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Social Services , Ms. Mike .

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Question 345-12(5): Percentage Of NWT Residents Addicted To Alcohol And Drugs

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 755

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don't know the exact percentage of the population who are addicted to drugs and alcohol. I will have to take his question as notice. Thank you.

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Question 345-12(5): Percentage Of NWT Residents Addicted To Alcohol And Drugs

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 755

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit , Mr. Patterson .

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Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 755

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think I've given credit to the Minister of Economic Development and

Tourism for the enhanced signing authority given to superintendents of his department in the regions, since he became Minister. Something that I think has worked very effectively to promote flexible economic development in the regions. I'd like to ask the same Minister, in his capacity as Minister of Transportation , has he been able to extend the same increased signing authority to the new superintendents who are now in place in the regions in the Department of Transportation? Thank you.

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Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Transportation , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. At the present time, the superintendents of Transportation, I believe, have $100,000 signing authority. However, I am working with the department right now to develop a paper for Cabinet approval to increase that. Thank you.

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Return To Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wouldn't want to trivialize the $100,000 signing authority, it is a substantial amount of money. But I would like to ask the Minister, given the large size of transportation contracts and the cost of transportation infrastructure, what does the Minister feel is a more appropriate level of signing authority for those regional superintendents to effectively do their job beyond the present $100,000 ceiling? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Transportation , Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

John Todd

Keewatin Central

My guess would be -- and again, we are reviewing it, because we're looking at the airport contracts, for example, in the municipalities, and we haven't defined it clearly yet -- it would be somewhere in the range of $250,000, similar to what we're doing with the superintendents of Economic Development and Tourism. I would caution the Member, though, in saying this as I have not brought this issue before Cabinet at this time, but it is my intention to do it shortly. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Question 346-12(5): Signing Authority For Regional Transportation Superintendents

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Antoine .

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Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Last Friday, I asked the Minister responsible for Public Works and Services a question with regard to the community office and school that was built in Trout Lake. He replied that they did an excellent job and they did bring the building in at a reasonable cost. I would like the Minister to tell the House what he means by reasonable cost. First of all, was this a negotiated contract? I will follow up after that. Thank you.

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Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services , Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The project that the Member is referring to, the Trout Lake facility, was construction management by the Department of Public Works. The construction costs of that facility came in at $2,131.07 per square metre. That, compared to the square meter cost in Yellowknife which is $1,711 per square meter. In all construction costs the department uses a multiplier of 1.4. That's the multiplier acceptable to Trout Lake. So that ends up coming in at $2,395 per square metre. This project came in an approximately 11 per cent under the estimated budget. Thank you.

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Return To Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .

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Supplementary To Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister responsible indicated that this project was not a negotiated contract, but it was a construction management. Can he explain to the House what he means by construction management? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services , Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In this case, the community of Trout Lake and the Member requested a special approach to the construction of this building. Public Works and Services went into the community, met with the community and developed a project management. We hired the actual manager for the project, but all the work was done by the community members except for a few of the trades. They did negotiate with the community and the band to supply labour. So it's a mixture of both, and it was very successful. We usually use this approach when there is a lack of management expertise in the community, at the first stage. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Question 347-12(5): Status Of Construction Of Trout Lake School

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot , Mr. Ng .

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Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 756

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Personnel . Last week, I asked her some questions regarding the guidelines for staff housing allocations. I would like to ask her, at this time, are senior management staff in the regions allowed to be over- accommodated based on her department's current guidelines

with the staff housing policy? Thank you.

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Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 757

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Personnel , Ms. Mike .

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Return To Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over- Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 757

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. If the honourable Member for Kitikmeot can bear with me, I have a document that I am going to be tabling, later in the House, on the location of staff housing. To answer your question on the senior employees being over-accommodated, it's not the policy of Personnel to over-accommodate staff. Thank you.

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Return To Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over- Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 757

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ng .

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Supplementary To Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over- Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 757

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

If it's not a policy of the department, is it a policy of the government to over-accommodate senior staff? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over- Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 757

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Personnel , Ms. Mike .

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Supplementary To Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over- Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 757

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will take the question as notice.

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Supplementary To Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over- Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Question 348-12(5): Policy For Over Accommodating Staff Under Staff Housing Guidelines

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 757

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

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Return To Written Question 17-12(5): Award Of Clean-up Contract For Core Campsites - North Warning System

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 757

Clerk Of The House

Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, return to Written Question 17-12(5) asked by Mr. Patterson to the Minister of Renewable Resources concerning the award of clean-up contracts for CORE campsites - north warning system.

Laval Fortin Limited of Quebec has recently been awarded a contract to operate the federal CORE campsites during 1994 which will house construction workers at north warning sites in the Baffin region. The Department of Renewable Resources is not aware of any convictions or other legal actions relating to environmental damage for work undertaken by this company on Baffin Island.

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Return To Written Question 18-12(5): Information On Each Business Taken Over By The NWT Development Corporation

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 757

Clerk Of The House

Mr. David Hamilton

Return to Written Question 18-12(5) asked by Mr. Lewis to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism and the NWT Development Corporation concerning businesses taken over by the NWT Development Corporation.

The following majority owned Development Corporation companies acquired the assets and/or assumed operating responsibilities of existing operations:

1. Northern Forest Projects Ltd. (Hay River) was established by the Development Corporation. It is a forest products management company contracting for the supply of logs, milling of logs and sale of lumber. However, some of the rolling stock assets of that company were transferred to it from #933261, and more than half of its revenues originate from logs milled by #933261. #933261 Ltd, is a contract milling company located in Hay River and owns all of the milling assets of the former Patterson Enterprises Ltd.

Northern Forest Products is responsible for arranging for the sales of lumber produced by $933261 (the Hay River mill).

It is expected that $933261 in 1994 will produce about four to five million board feet of lumber, and it is expected that this company and Northern Forest Products will both enjoy small profits.

In 1994, these two companies will fund 25 full and part-time positions, and will likely expend some $1.590 million on the payment of wages to NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses.

2. Great Slave Lake Forest Products Ltd is based in Fort Resolution and is a contract lumber milling company. The Development Corporation entered into an agreement with Nuni Ye Forest Products that resulted in the transfer of the assets of Nuni Ye to Great Slave Lake Forest Products Ltd. Nuni Ye had been dormant for approximately eight years at the time.

Northern Forest Products will sell all of the lumber milled by this company.

It is expected that Great Slave Lake Forest Products in 1994 will produce 2.5 to 3.5 million board feet of lumber, and it is expected that this company will likely break even.

Fifteen to 20 full and part-time positions will be funded directly by the company in 1994, and the company will likely expend some $821,000 on the payment of wages to NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses.

3. #913044 (Fort McPherson Tent and Canvas Shop Ltd) was an Economic Development and Tourism (ED&

T) managed enterprise prior to its transfer to the Development Corporation.

The company operates a small craft outlet and produced a variety of manufactured fabric products. It is forecasting production of 500 tents, 4,600 bags, 250 miscellaneous fabric products and some custom work (example, boat covers) in 1994. Arctic Canada Arts and Crafts Wholesale is the majority wholesale customer of this business.

This company is not forecasted to generate a profit in 1994.

In 1994, it is expected that this company will fund 22 full and part-time positions and will likely expend some $560,000 on the payment of wages to NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses.

4. Cumberland Sound Fisheries transferred its fish plant processing facilities to Pangnirtung Fisheries Ltd. at the time of the incorporation of Pangnirtung Fisheries.

Pangnirtung fisheries buy char from a variety of Baffin Island communities and turbot caught through the ice near Pangnirtung. It is expected that the plant will produce 300,000 to 400,000 pounds of finished turbot products and 25,000 to 40,000 pounds of Arctic char products in 1994. In addition, Pangnirtung Fisheries is involved in discussions that may result in the processing of summer caught turbot on a pilot project basis this year. It is not likely that more than 55,000 pounds of finished product would result from such a test project. This company is not forecasted to generate a profit in 1994.

Arctic Canada Foods arranges for the sale of virtually all of Pangnirtung Fisheries products.

In 1994, it is expected that this company will fund 37 full and part-time positions, and will likely expend some $1.630 million on the payment of wages to the NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses. This includes payments to some 100 fishermen.

5. Nahanni Butte General Store Ltd was an ED&T managed enterprise prior to its transfer to the Development Corporation. It is the only store in the community and sells a range of fresh products and dry goods to community residents. In addition, it provides a taxi service for community residents to other nearby communities and also operates a small water taxi service. This company is not forecasted to generate a profit in 1994.

In 1994, it is expected that this company will fund five full and part-time positions, and will likely expend some $230,000 on the payment of wages to NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses.

6. Acho Dene Native Crafts Ltd was an ED&T managed enterprise prior to its transfer to the Development Corporation. It generates a retail arts and crafts outlet and will purchase about 1,280 birch bark products and 830 moose hide products in 1994. This company is not forecasted to generate a profit this year.

The major wholesale buyer of its products is Arctic Canada Arts and Crafts Wholesale.

In 1994, it is expected that this company will fund three full and part-time positions and will likely expend some $210,000 on the payments of wages to NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses. This includes payments to approximately 42 cottage workers.

7. Rae Lakes General Store Ltd was an ED&T managed enterprise prior to its transfer to the Development Corporation. It is the only store in the community and sells a range of fresh products and dry goods to community residents. This company will likely break even or generate a small profit in 1994.

In 1994, it is expected that this company will fund six full and part-time positions and will likely expend some $377,000 on the payment of wages to NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses.

8. The Cambridge Bay HTA transferred its meat processing operation to Kitikmeot Foods Ltd. It is expected that in 1994, Kitikmeot Foods will produce 55,000 pounds of caribou and muskox products and 14,000 pounds of fish products. This company is not forecasted to generate a profit in 1994.

Arctic Canada Foods arranges for the majority of the sales of Kitikmeot Foods products.

In 1994, it is expected that this company will fund 12 full and part-time positions and will likely expend some $258,000 on the payment of wages to NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses. This includes payments to some 4 fishermen and hunters. The volume of production and the benefits generated by this company will rise somewhat if the current negotiations for the purchase of 200 to 300 muskox carcasses from Holman are successfully concluded.

It should also be noted that the Cambridge Co-op has agreed in principle to transfer its fish processing operations to Kitikmeot Foods. If this transaction is completed, then in 1994 it is expected that there will be an additional $530,000 of payments of wages to NWT residents and the purchases of goods and services from NWT businesses. These additional payments would include payments to some 20 additional fishermen.

9. Keewatin Meat and Fish Ltd acquired the fish processing operations in Rankin Inlet that were managed by ED&T as an enterprise. On takeover of the fish operations, steps were taken to broaden the product lines to include meat and fish from all Keewatin communities. The majority product of Keewatin Meat and Fish since its takeover is processed caribou.

It is expected that in 1994, Keewatin Meat and Fish will produce 69,600 pounds of caribou and 42,000 pounds of fish products. This company is not forecasted to generate a profit in 1994.

Arctic Canada Foods arranges for the majority of the sales of Keewatin Meat and Fish products.

In 1994, it is expected that this company will fund 25 full and part-time positions and will likely expend some $280,000 on the payment of wages to NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses. This includes payments to some 66 fishermen and hunters.

10. Uqqurmiut Arts and Crafts

(1993) Ltd recently began operating the Uqqurmiut Centre. The major products of the centre are tapestries, prints, signage and woolen products. In addition, the operation runs a small arts and crafts retail outlet.

Arctic Canada Arts and Crafts Wholesale will arrange for the sale of some of the Uqqurmiut products in 1994, and the balance will be sold by Uqqurmiut Arts and Crafts Ltd.

In 1994, it is expected that this company will fund 25 full and part-time positions and will likely expend some $580,000 on the payments of wages to NWT residents and the purchase of goods and services from NWT businesses. This includes payments to some 35 cottage workers.

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Return To Written Question 19-12(5): Operating Guidelines For The NWT Development Corporation

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 757

Clerk Of The House

Mr. David Hamilton

Return to Written Question 19-12(5) asked by Mr. Patterson to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism and the NWT Development Corporation concerning the operating guidelines for the NWT Development Corporation concerning the operating guidelines for the NWT Development Corporation.

The objectives, mandate, terms of reference and policy guidelines for the NWT Development Corporation are contained in the Northwest Territories Development Corporation Act, by-law No. 1, the existing corporate plan, the investment guidelines and a public hand-out describing the operations and objectives of the NWT Development Corporation. These documents have been provided under separate cover to the honourable Member.

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Return To Written Question 19-12(5): Operating Guidelines For The NWT Development Corporation

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 759

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Mr. Clerk. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Baffin Central , Ms. Mike .

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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 759

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to table the following document. Tabled Document 47-12(5), guidelines for allocating staff accommodation.

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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 759

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Clerk.

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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 759

Clerk Of The House

Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, pursuant to rule 57(10), I wish to table Tabled Document 48-12(5), a response to Petition 5-12(5), presented by Mr. Dent and responded to by the Premier , concerning

summary of specific recommendations, Special Committee on Health and Social Services.

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Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 759

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River , Mr. Pollard .

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Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 759

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

FOR FIRST READING OF BILLS

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Bill 18: Write-off Of Debts Act, 1993-94

Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 759

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good afternoon. Madam Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, March 24, 1994, I shall move that Bill 18, Write-Off Of Debts Act, 1993-94, be read for the first time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Bill 18: Write-off Of Debts Act, 1993-94

Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 759

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River , Mr. Pollard .

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Bill 19:

An Act To Amend The Tobacco Tax Act

Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 759

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, March 24, 1994, I shall move that Bill 19,

An Act To Amend The Tobacco Tax Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Bill 19:

An Act To Amend The Tobacco Tax Act

Item 14: Notices Of Motions

Page 759

The Speaker

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Recognizing that the honourable Member for Deh Cho , Mr. Gargan , is not in the House, Motion 23-12(5) will drop from the order paper. Item 15, motions. Item 16, first reading of bills. Item 17, second reading of bills.

Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95 ; Committee Report 2-12(5), Report of the Review of the 1994-95 Main Estimates; Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy; Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning Strategy; Tabled Document 34-12(5), Tradition and Change, A Strategy for Renewable Resource Development in the NWT, February 1994, with Mr. Lewis in the chair.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 759

The Chair

Brian Lewis

I would like to call the committee to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Ningark .

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 759

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you. I would like to suggest, Mr. Chairman, that we do the Department of Economic Development and Tourism and, if we're able to conclude that, Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. Following that, we would like to deal with the Workers' Compensation Board, in that order. Thank you.

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 759

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Thank you, very much, Mr. Ningark . Are we agreed?

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Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 759

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 759

The Chair

Brian Lewis

The Minister for Economic Development and Tourism , do you have any opening remarks

for the committee?

Department Of Economic Development And Tourism

Introductory Remarks

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 760

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To carry out with the department's mandate in the 1994-95 fiscal year, the government has budgeted just over $34 million, that's an eight per cent increase over last year's budget as a result of forced growth. Of this amount, 86 per cent is targeted directly to programs and program delivery, and 14 per cent is allocated to general management and program support.

As I've indicated on other occasions, in order to effectively meet the needs of the residents of the Northwest Territories and to get more for each dollar spent, the department has reorganized and streamlined. New management techniques have been introduced, funding application procedures have been simplified, divisions performing similar functions have been consolidated, and program implementation and decision-making responsibilities have been decentralized to the regions.

Departmental activities must be linked to the best economic opportunities at the local and regional levels. To this end, the Standing Committee on Finance has recommended that the department provide economic planning leadership and support to communities and regions, as required. We are responding to this recommendation. Staff are meeting with local councils, regional organizations and business groups to review the current initiatives and to seek advice and recommendations on future activities. Formal planning exercises will be undertaken in all regions during the coming fiscal year.

In addition, more emphasis is being placed on cost-benefit analyses to help identify the best opportunities and to ensure we are getting the most for our money.

The department is continuing on the course established in the 1990 economic strategy. Emphasis on the development of small business as a means of job creation will continue. Every community has highly-skilled individuals in traditional pursuits: hunting, fishing and the production of arts and crafts. People with these skills tend to live in communities where opportunities for employment are few. The department, as well as the Northwest Territories Development Corporation will continue to focus on these sectors of the economy, in order to generate employment and create income opportunities where they are most needed.

Efforts to increase the level of self-sufficiency of NWT residents will continue for the development of food production capacity and by encouraging the development of the service businesses to meet the needs of residents and to cater to tourists. By using northern firms and products, we will be keeping our money circulating in the northern economy. We will continue to encourage the sustainable commercial harvest of muskox, caribou and fish and to undertake marketing initiatives for Arctic foods.

To support these initiatives, and on the advice of Members of this House, work has been initiated towards a policy on the use of northern foods in government institutions. Food represents a significant portion of the NWT's imports. In addition to developing the Arctic foods sector, agricultural growth will also be encouraged. To guide the development of the industry, an agricultural development policy will be developed.

Tourists are another renewable resource that must be nurtured. Generally speaking, tourists are an ideal resource. They leave behind their money and they take home only memories, pictures and souvenirs. Tourists do little to damage the environment or the cultures. They come to see. We must have attractions and potential visitors must know about them. A new tourist marketing strategy has been finalized and will be implemented in the coming fiscal year.

Marketing activities will be fine tuned to help us compete in this highly competitive market and also recognize the differences between tourist products in Nunavut and in the west. We have different products to sell in each area and to better promote these products, we will develop distinct marketing activities for each part of the Northwest Territories.

With respect to parks, at the request of the Standing Committee on Finance, work on a parks policy has been undertaken to provide direction for future park development. In addition, in response to the committee, the department has started to look at the cost-benefits of parks development. As work on the parks policy is proceeding, maintenance and renovation work on already existing parks will be carried out. A management plan has been developed for facilities already approved and some long-range planning will be undertaken, but no new parks will be approved.

The market for NWT-produced art is soft because of the recession. International marketing efforts are needed to offset this lack of growth in the domestic economy. To promote NWT arts and crafts, the department will publish new promotional booklets and will work closely with the NWT Development Corporation to develop projects to encourage the production of quality craft products, the development of markets, and the establishment of effective distribution networks. Marketing plans for Europe and the United States have been developed.

The department has established the wholesalers support program to assist with exporting initiatives and will organize wholesaler meetings to better coordinate plans.

The business development fund was designed to meet the needs of more sophisticated small businesses in the Northwest Territories. To meet the needs of very small businesses, the department has designed a new program to assist the little guy who wishes to start up or expand a micro-business. The new grants to small business policy recognizes the significant contributions that micro-businesses make to community economies. The program is specifically designed for artists, crafts people and commercial renewable resource harvesters.

Business opportunities have to be taken up when they arise or they will be lost. In order to speed up the funding process, applications are now being considered in regional offices as opposed to being sent to Yellowknife for review. Regional superintendents have authority to approve business development fund contributions up to $250,000.

---Applause

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Changes have also been made by the Business Credit Corporation to improve services to clients requesting loans. Loans up to $200,000 can now be approved at the regional level.

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 761

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 761

John Todd

Keewatin Central

This means that most applications for funding assistance can be approved and processed in the regions. Regional staff are more knowledgeable of the local economic environment and have a better understanding of local aspirations and needs. With these changes, clients can expect a much quicker response to their applications for financial assistance.

The Standing Committee on Finance has expressed some reservations with the decentralization of authority to the regional level. I can assure this House that measures are being taken to give regional staff the tools required to meet the new responsibilities. Person years and associated funding is being transferred to regional offices from headquarters. In addition, training will be provided to the staff to ensure that clients are served in a professional and expert manner.

As the department's new senior management committee includes all regional superintendents, I am confident that the programs and policies will be administered with more consistency across the territories and with greater accountability than has been the case in the past.

In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, we are responding to the directions of this House and to the concerns raised by the business community, and we expect to see further improvements in the coming year. Thank you.

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 761

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Todd . I was asked by a Member to recognize two members who were in the gallery, but who have now left and did not want to interrupt Mr. Todd in the middle of his presentation. They were John Amagoalik, chief commissioner of the Nunavut Implementation Commission, and Simon Awa, executive director of the Nunavut Implementation Commission. I am sure we would all like to welcome them and appreciate their visit to our Assembly building.

---Applause

Mr. Antoine from the Standing Committee on Finance.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 761

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance, we have a statement here in response to Economic Development and Tourism. The Department of Economic Development and Tourism has long had a reputation of being overly bureaucratic and centralized. This has caused frustration in the northern business community. However, recent movements by the department have started to reverse that trend, which the committee sees as a positive sign. Recent changes to devolve authority should go a long way to making the department and its programs more accessible to northerners.

Devolution

However, with this devolution of authority comes risk. Now that the regional superintendents and regional planners have greater granting and lending authority, they will require training and support to wield that authority in the most effective manner. With devolved decision-making comes a greater need to ensure adequate training of the ED&T staff in the communities and to ensure more consistency and accountability in the application of the department's policies. Committee Members will be watching to see that the mechanisms required to ensure proper accountability are being implemented.

Further, the granting of more responsibility and authority to individual ED&T employees in the communities could create new stresses in their relationship with community members. With a significant change in the role that the employees play in the community, will come a shift in how that individual is perceived in the community. With fewer "levels of appeal", the role that the employee plays in making opportunities available to community members becomes even more critical. Increasing an employee's responsibility and authority could become a major problem in communities where the employee has not earned the respect and trust of community members.

While the department said that decision-making has been devolved, the committee did not see a corresponding shift of support resources to the regions. Regional employees will undoubtedly require supplementary resources in order to carry out additional responsibilities. Committee Members would like to see this issue addressed by the department.

Small Business Ventures

Committee Members feel strongly that the support of small business ventures is a key element in developing a strong economy in the Northwest Territories. Government support of and investment in small businesses or "cottage" industries will produce more jobs per dollar and will greatly enhance a more equitable distribution of economic opportunities throughout the territories.

The department should make every effort to demonstrate their appreciation for and understanding of the role of small business in our economy, especially in job creation. The development and support of small business ventures, particularly aboriginal businesses, should be encouraged everywhere in the territories, including the larger centres. Current policies tend to discriminate against aboriginal individuals who live in larger centres. This unintended discrimination is based on the assumption that larger centres provide more opportunities for business development.

However, the department should recognize and address the fact that need and opportunity should be assessed on an individual basis and not on the size or classification of the community.

Members suggested that the department take an active role in assisting communities to develop specific capabilities - for example, various forms of arts and crafts - and to identify appropriate marketing opportunities. Small business ventures that require a consumer market larger than what currently exists in their home community should be provided assistance to identify and assess viable marketing opportunities in other communities or regions.

Tourism Zones

One of the committee's major concerns was about the effectiveness of tourism zone concepts. There is a perception that planning and decision-making in some of the zones is dominated by a few individuals from larger communities and by tourism operators, many of whom reside outside the territories. Smaller communities in a given zone are not heard or taken into account. The committee feels that it could be appropriate for the department to make funding to the various zones' associations contingent upon the guarantee of appropriate representation from all communities within each tourism zone.

Recommendation 7

The committee recommends that the Department of Economic Development and Tourism consider ways to encourage adequate representation of all communities within a tourism zone in its zone association.

Secondment

One specific issue which brought concern to the committee was that of a long-term secondment of a GNWT employee in Rankin Inlet to Piruqsaijit. This secondment was...

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 762

An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 762

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

---Laughter

This secondment was continued over a number of years at the government's expense. However, the current policy regarding secondment clearly states that the receiving organization usually pays the full costs associated with the secondment. This is from the Human Resource Manual,

section 1407, page two.

Recommendation 8

With reference to Piruqsaijit, the committee recommends that the Department of Economic Development and Tourism provide a complete justification for the continuation of this secondment and an assessment of compliance with government policy. This report should be provided to the Standing Committee on Finance prior to the review of the Department of Economic Development and Tourism's budget in committee of the whole.

Committee Members believe that the idea of seconding a trained government employee to a new business for a short period of time has merit. If the government wishes to continue this practice of promoting secondment, then policies and guidelines should be in place to ensure that equal opportunities exist across the territories.

Recommendation 9

The committee recommends that the Department of Economic Development and Tourism consider and develop a policy for secondment of government employees in new business ventures and provide the Standing Committee on Finance with a draft policy by May 31, 1994.

NWT Development Corporation

The Minister responsible for the Development Corporation made it very clear that the top priority for the corporation is job creation. The committee fully supports this position and encourages the Development Corporation to continue to create as many jobs as possible for northerners.

Committee Members feel that the Development Corporation can enhance its performance in job creation by focusing on identifying and supporting small business opportunities. To date, the Development Corporation has supported the development of a few large initiatives in a few regions and communities. While the Development Corporation has $6 million in capital in place for the fiscal year 1994-95, only about $600,000 of this amount has not been committed to ongoing projects. Most of the large projects are concentrated in one region. There is concern about this approach creating economic disparity among regions and communities.

In addition, the committee feels that by adopting a strategy to focus on small business opportunities, the Development Corporation can be more cost-effective. The cost per job created will be reduced and the opportunities for individuals increased.

Recommendation 10

That concludes the Standing Committee on Finance report, Mr. Chairman. Shall I get right into the motions?

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 762

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Mr. Antoine , that concludes your report. Is the committee ready to go into motions?

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 762

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Report Of The Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Mr. Antoine .

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Committee Motion 28-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 7, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Economic Development and Tourism consider ways to encourage adequate representation of all communities within a tourism zone in the zone association.

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Committee Motion 28-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 7, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

The Chair

Brian Lewis

The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Committee Motion 28-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 7, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

An Hon. Member

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Committee Motion 28-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 7, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Antoine .

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Committee Motion 29-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you. I move that the committee recommends that, with reference to Piruqsaijit, the Department of Economic Development and Tourism provide a complete justification for the continuation of this secondment and an assessment of compliance with government policy. This report should be provided to the Standing Committee on Finance prior to the review of the Department of Economic Development and Tourism's budget in committee of the whole.

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Committee Motion 29-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Committee Motion 29-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

An Hon. Member

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Committee Motion 29-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

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Committee Motion 30-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Economic Development and Tourism consider and develop a policy for secondment of government employees in new business ventures and provide the Standing Committee on Finance with a draft policy by May 31, 1994.

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Committee Motion 30-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Committee Motion 30-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

An Hon. Member

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Committee Motion 30-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 9, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Antoine .

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the committee recommends that the Development Corporation focus on smaller ventures, and on a wider distribution of its limited resources, thereby ensuring a more equitable distribution of economic support and job creation across the NWT. The committee recommends, further, that the corporation present a plan, which incorporates this recommendation, with its 1995-96 capital estimates. Mahsi.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine . The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

An Hon. Member

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

That concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Finance and also the motions. We're on page 17-11, program

summary, of the main estimates. General comments. Mr. Ningark .

General Comments

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 763

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we in the Natilikmiot region, consisting of Pelly Bay, Gjoa Haven and Taloyoak, have had problems trying to retain economic development officers. They have a habit of only staying a couple of years in Taloyoak. I'm not saying this is the fault of the previous Ministers or the present Minister. I don't know what the problem is. Maybe the job is not attractive enough, I don't know.

The Kitikmeot Inuit Association, together with CEDOs has a plan to administer and manage the economic development officer position and the PY in Taloyoak. A formal request was made to the honourable Minister of Economic Development . I was very privileged to be at that meeting. The Minister has indicated to me that, if this is the wish of the members of that community, that he would comply. I know the KIA and CEDOs have worked very, very hard. They have put a tremendous amount of time and effort into this plan.

I know it will work because this is coming from the community and the hamlet council of that community has also given their support to the initiative. The incentive is coming from the community and I know the Minister is in support of this initiative.

Mr. Chairman, I hope, at some time in the future, once we deal with the matter in Taloyoak, that we will finally be able to get an economic development officer for my community of Pelly Bay. There was request made about a year ago. I think there was a misunderstanding. People thought I was not supporting the community of Pelly Bay to get an economic development officer PY in that community.

Mr. Chairman, I know the regional superintendent, Mr. John McGrath, has worked very hard for that region, but he does not have all the resources and means to do the things he wanted to do and what the people want. But, hopefully, with this new initiative in Taloyoak, we will be able to help the community and the individual who lives in that area to develop some ways and means to get economic activity finally going in that side of the Kitikmeot region.

I know Mr. Kelvin Ng , my colleague, is in support of whatever economic development we can initiate in that region. I'm very thankful for that, he is a Member I can work with. It is very comfortable to work with Mr. Kelvin Ng . The only difference we have is that there are too many government departments and programs in his area. I hope some of those will be transferring to part of my area. I know he and I can work over that some day soon.

Mr. Chairman, Gjoa Haven is in the process of starting a community development corporation. We all know that the community development corporation's priority is to hire and train local people. We know that the money stays in the community whenever there is a community economic development corporation initiated by the community.

I also have one in Taloyoak who want to start up their own community development by renting office space and some accommodation to the government staff. In most small communities, the only means of income coming to the community is usually the staff of this jurisdiction. I hope that the Minister will be sensitive to the people who want to start a community development corporation in any given area, especially when the community has a proposal to provide office space to government staff within the community. I know the system.

The government is in the process of getting rid of all the government staff houses, and I hope, given that, they will also want to rent office space from the community development corporation.

In conclusion, I know that the Minister has lived in the eastern Arctic for many years and he has been a proponent of community development corporations, community hire and government buying from the community. I know he has worked very hard since taking over the portfolio as the Economic Development and Tourism Minister , and I know he will continue to do that. I have every confidence in the Minister. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Ningark . We are on page 17-11. It is your call if you want to have any witnesses to help you, Mr. Todd , but we are on general comments. Would you like to?

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

John Todd

Keewatin Central

It may be appropriate, if it is okay with the ordinary Members, that I ask Mr. Bailey to come forward.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Mr. Todd would like to have Mr. Bailey as staff at the witness table. Agreed?

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Sergeant-at-Arms, would you help the witness to the table, please? Thank you. For the record, then, identify the gentleman to your right, please, for us.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my immediate right is Mr. Roland Bailey who is the deputy minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Thank you.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Mr. Ningark made some general comments. Would you like to respond to his comments?

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

John Todd

Keewatin Central

No, not at this time.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

The Chair

Brian Lewis

General comments. Mr. Patterson .

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 764

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, I will start off with the good things, as I usually do. I just want to reiterate, because I have close dealings with the superintendent and some staff members of the department in Baffin, which is headquartered in my riding, that the significant breakthrough made by Mr. Todd , with the full support of his deputy, I know, in devolving authority to the regions has made an enormous impact, I believe, on the morale of regional staff. I have said before in this House that it seemed like they had to get permission from Yellowknife to go to the bathroom in Baffin in the past, and now it is completely different.

I know a bit about the dynamics of government organizations. I suspect there was a touch of reluctance on the part of some of the able bureaucrats in headquarters in the department about this change, and they will be closely monitoring the situation.

But I want to say that it has given a new lease on life, in my view, to the staff in my region, and it has given my constituents and others in the Baffin region a real ability to get things done with less delay. So I want to commend the department again for this change. I think it's working well, and I sense some new energy and enthusiasm in the department that is very positive.

Sure, there are some down sides and some areas that have to be watched, with this change. I endorse the standing committee's observation that adequate support needs to be provided to the regional staff so the superintendents and others can undertake these new responsibilities. The Minister may have a comment on that. I know this is a new change and there may be some realignments still required to provide that support.

I have also noted the concern that, in some regions, staff may be marching to a little different drum than the constituents and the MLAs. I think that is a problem that is easily dealt with. In my opinion and my experience, the quickest way to deal with a problem of that kind is to approach Mr. Todd or Mr. Bailey or the particular staff member in question. I have found they have been responsive to MLAs' concerns, and I don't think that's a situation that Mr. Todd would knowingly neglect if an official was not responding appropriately to the political winds blowing in a constituency. So I think that is undoubtedly a danger, or I think it is a problem that can be addressed.

I want to say, without being too lavish in my praise, that, in my view, the superintendent and staff in the Baffin region have the confidence of myself and, by and large, of the people who have to deal with them. It is sometimes a tough job because there are limits on dollars and programs, but I think they have good credibility and good relations with the department in the region.

I am pleased that Qikiqtaaluk Corporation and Kakivak Association have now got a very much improved and close working relationship with the department in the region. I think this is critical as we plan the implementation of Nunavut and the development initiatives that will flow from the land claims.

I also want to commend the department for having made it possible for the establishment of a regional economic planning position in the Baffin. I think that, with the Baffin MLAs and mayors, we are now working actively with the Baffin Region Inuit Association and Qikiqtaaluk Corporation and other concerned agencies to develop a Baffin economic strategy. It will be made in Baffin, it will be appropriate to the region, it's off and running and will lead to, I am sure, the best utilization of resources in the region.

So all of these are good things, and I don't need to reiterate my support for tourism and parks. I am glad it's staying in the department, and I am very excited about the development of the Auyuittuq Park, which borders on my riding and that of Mr. Pudlat and has already had measurable economic benefits to both constituencies, perhaps, particularly, the community of Lake Harbour. I welcome the cost-benefit analysis that the Minister has proposed to undertake. I think it will give us measurable evidence that an investment in parks is an investment in jobs and economic opportunities in our region, at least.

I want to say that I was a bit concerned about the Minister's assertion that there's a freeze on new park development, if I understood him correctly. I hope that won't prevent some orderly planning to be done in the region, because I think that where communities come up with good ideas for park development I wouldn't want to see the department say they won't get supported. Tourism is on the move in Baffin, and I'm sure it's our priority. It may not be a priority in other regions, I don't want to speak for other regions. But in the Baffin, I think our recent leadership meeting in January, affirmed this.

Tourism is a priority in the whole region and I would hope that the department will respond by supporting communities that have ideas for parks.

There is one developing in my constituency, in the fabulous Patsialluq region on south Frobisher Bay, a natural opportunity to fishing, skiing, snowmobiling, hiking, naturalists, and the Inuit of the outpost camp in that region have begun to form a venture and have begun to talk about tourism development. I would hope that the department would be able to respond and give them support to carry that idea further.

Now, Mr. Chairman, I turn to a difficult issue, but I do want to raise it and I want to raise it in an open fashion. With due respect to the success that we've had in the fishery in Baffin, particularly in Pangnirtung, and the priority that the department has given through the Development Corporation and through the departmental officials, I still want to say that I think we should take a good look at the Pangnirtung fishery to see what lessons we can learn as we plan to develop other fisheries in the Baffin region and in other regions of the Northwest Territories.

I've talked already in this House about the dangers of over subsidizing and over capitalizing. I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that this is the case in Pangnirtung, but I think we should take a close look at the situation and decide for ourselves whether government support has been appropriate to the kind of small scale, in-shore, small business development that we want to encourage in the region.

Since I see Ms. Mike is squirming a little bit, I'll pose some questions that I think we should all want to have answered. I want to assure the Member and her constituents, that I want to see a policy-based discussed occur about how the Development Corporation -- which is quite new -- provides assistance to communities, and how the Development Corporation's policies ensure that there will be a long-term viability in the fishery.

I have a few questions and I'll save them for the detail, Mr. Chairman, but I have a few questions about things like market disruption which is an issue with a constituent company which feels that in some areas they have been unfairly competed with through Development Corporation dollars. I would like to ask some questions about the adequacy of the resource and whether we may have, perhaps, been premature in investing heavy capital facilities on a fishery that I understand is still exploratory, without knowing that there is a long-term sustainable harvest available in that fishery.

Mr. Chairman, I have these questions and I'm going to ask them in as open-minded a way as I can. I would also like to say that I think it would be appropriate for some MLAs to take a look at the Pangnirtung fishery. I talked to Johnny Mike, the chairman of the Pangnirtung Fisheries, and he has invited me to go and see for myself. I've known him for many years and I know many of the people involved in that fishery, so I'm going to take him up on that offer with, I'm sure, the support of the Member for Baffin Central , to take a look and see for myself because we all want this to work. We want it to be a success.

We want it to be viable. We want there to be competition in the fishery in the Baffin region. We want it to be a success. So, it's in that spirit, Mr. Chairman, that I'll be asking some questions. And hopefully, later on this spring, paying a visit to the Pangnirtung fishery to look at the new plant and to look at the whole situation with a view to seeing what lessons we can learn, what's been done right, perhaps what we might want to do differently in future as we develop the fishery in the Keewatin and the Kitikmeot and other parts of Baffin.

So I hope no one will feel threatened by these enquiries. They are intended to be constructive, and intended to promote a viable fishery, rather than one that's doomed to government subsidy forever and ultimate failure. That's my concern, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 765

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Patterson . Those were general comments on page 17-11. Anybody else for general comments? Mr. Pudlat .

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 765

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I would like to thank the Minister of Economic Development . We have worked very well with him with regard to economic development in my region, especially in Cape Dorset and Lake Harbour. I would like to thank him very much, and commend him as a Minister that he has helped us in my region very well.

Dennis stated earlier, the Baffin fisheries are concerned. I have also visited them with regard to economic development in my region. I have seen a lot of very good initiatives started by the Economic Development people. But, there are some concerns with the fact that if there are too many government subsidies at one time, it might come down. But at this time, it's moving along smoothly.

As well, I have heard about this concern in Iqaluit. But I haven't heard people expressing concern in Lake Harbour or Cape Dorset. They are trying to get some control over economic development prospects in their region, too. I know that other communities are interested in developing fisheries. That's the first

part I would like to commend the Minister of Economic Development for that purpose.

We already know in the past that the communities were not aware of what was possible in the way of economic development in their region. Now, people are starting to realize that they are capable of making their own viable economy in their own region. The fact that people are aware -- in every community I'm sure there is not an economic development officer -- but people seem to be more enthusiastic towards the possibilities in their own region. For that purpose, I would like the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism to tell me if there are economic development officers in every region.

That helps out in making people realize they are capable of independent planning on economic development issues. Maybe it is not so much of a concern in larger communities, but in smaller communities having jobs and economic possibilities is a concern. The education part of economic development possibilities is very important in smaller communities so they can start depending on their own resources and know how to operate a business viably and to operate industries in a viable fashion.

People who are working for themselves, the cottage industry part of the economy, as well as working on tourism and training host communities where there are parks.

In Pangnirtung, there has been a visitors' centre for a long time. Could we possibly find out how we can acquire a visitors' centre the same way Pangnirtung has? This is with regard to my own region. Have you made any plans to set up a visitors' centre? Do we have to have cooperation from other communities to have a visitors' centre in our region? Not necessarily the same way other communities have them, but have them made for local parks areas where people visit and have information available to them in the region. I am probably talking too much. Those are some of the areas I would like to have answers to.

I haven't read all of the economic development possibilities. Are there other things we can look forward to in our region for economic development purposes? Not just the tourism aspect, but the educational part of the development. Is there anything being planned for the communities or the public on how they can acquire

applications for funding from different sources? Can there be a public education program? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 766

The Chair

Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat . Mr. Todd .

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 766

John Todd

Keewatin Central

On the two issues of the visitors' centre and parks facilities, I want to assure the honourable Member that there is a significant amount of money being spent on park development. As part of our overall strategy of developing this park, there will be some kind of visitors' centre/parks facility in that area. The department is working on that as part of their overall plan in terms of developing this park. I am pleased to hear that it has been very successful in attracting people into the area.

On the concern about our ability to advise the public of our programs, we are going to move forward on a much more aggressive campaign in the communities, specifically with respect to the fact that we have increased the regional authority. I know we have said that and people are tired of hearing that, but we have moved that regional authority out there. As part of moving that authority, there is also going to be a campaign to advise the community-at-large, small businesses, et cetera, about the new programs. That should help in letting people know, in the honourable Member's riding, about what is available for small and large businesses. Thank you.

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Committee Motion 31-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 766

The Chair

Brian Lewis

General comments. Can we go into detail? Agreed?

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