Debates of March 30th, 2004

This is page numbers 455 - 502 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was tax .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Meeting With Chairs Of Education Boards

Waste Reduction And Recovery Programs

North Slave Correctional Centre Opening

Mackenzie Valley Environmental Review Board Pipeline Consultation

Gameti Spiritual Healing Workshop

Waiving Of Business Incentive Policy

Waiving Of The Business Incentive Policy

Taxation To Facilitate Spending In The North

Comments On The Business Incentive Policy

Health Care Staffing Shortages In Nunakput

The Importance Of The Business Incentive Policy

Investing In The North To Develop Capacity And Affordable Housing

Supporting The Community Involvement Of Seniors

Consistent Application Of Government Policies

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Costs Of Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Reclassification Of Mental Health, Drug And Alcohol Workers

Quality Housing Versus Affordable Housing

Mobile Homes Versus Stick Built Homes

Status Of Turning Point Facilities In Inuvik

Written Question 15-15(3): Implementation Of The Sahtu And Dene Metis Aboriginal Land Claims

Written Question 16-15(3): Reclamation Standards For Con Mine Leases

Return To Written Question 9-15(3): Reclamation Of Miramar Con Mine

Tabled Document 22-15(3): Report And Recommendations Of The NWT Judicial Remuneration Commission, March 2, 2004

Tabled Document 23-15(3): Labour Standards Board Annual Report For The Years April 1, 1996 To March 31, 2003

Tabled Document 24-15(3): Environmental Rights Act 2002-2003 Annual Report

Tabled Document 25-15(3): Cultural Enhancement Of The Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly Building And Grounds

Tabled Document 26-15(3): Statutory Declarations Of Residence For Those Members Seeking Reimbursement For Their Capital Accommodations

Bill 6:

An Act To Amend The Payroll Tax Act, 1993 And The Income Tax Act

Bill 5: Tlicho Community Government Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 2

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, 2004-2005

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Allen , Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Mr. Delorey , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya , Honourable Henry Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 455

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 22-15(3): Meeting With Chairs Of Education Boards

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 455

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. On February 24th and 25th, I met with the chairs of the NWT education bodies, including the chairs of the divisional education councils, the Commission Scolaire Francophone de Division, the two Yellowknife district education authorities and Aurora College.

I discussed with the chairs the comments and suggestions made by Members of this Assembly regarding schooling. I noted that Members expressed how important schooling is to the futures of our students and our Territory.

The chairs and I discussed a number of issues including the importance of student success and the need to focus on improving the results of our school system. During the meeting, we talked about programming offered at the high school level and many of the chairs highlighted the need to meet the needs of all students and ensure that more students complete their studies.

We also discussed the need for an increased focus on accountability and oversight of budgets as they related to program delivery particularly with respect to special needs funding.

In addition, I shared with the chairs, the importance of a coordinated approach to adult learning so northerners have better access to the post-secondary and skills training required to take full advantage of current and future employment opportunities.

It is important to recognize that our education system has made significant progress over the past 15 years. We now have more students graduating from high school, including an increased number of aboriginal graduates and graduates from community high schools. This growth and development is the result of the hard work by all partners in the education process, especially families and communities who recognize the importance of schooling.

Mr. Speaker, the chairs and I have committed to meeting two times each year to ensure that we have a regular forum for sharing our ideas and our views on providing the best possible education for meeting the needs of all our students.

I thank the chairs for their ongoing commitment to educating our children and youth and I look forward to meeting with them next November to hear their ideas, concerns and aspirations for our NWT education system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 22-15(3): Meeting With Chairs Of Education Boards

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 455

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minster of RWED, Mr. Bell .

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Minister's Statement 23-15(3): Waste Reduction And Recovery Programs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 455

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take this opportunity to update this House on the implementation of the Waste Reduction and Recovery Act.

As Members are aware, the legislation to enable the development and implementation of waste recovery programs was passed by the 14th Legislative Assembly in October 2003. The new act establishes a framework for waste reduction programs and provides for the formation of a Waste Reduction and Recovery Advisory Committee. This committee will play a vital role in the establishment and operation of waste recovery programs developed by this government, including the proposed beverage container recovery program.

A recent call for expressions for people interested in serving on this committee was very successful. A number of qualified women and men representing industry, business, municipalities, and environmental organizations, as well as those with an avid interest in recycling from throughout the Northwest Territories, put their names forward to serve on the advisory committee.

I expect to appoint members to the Waste Reduction and Recovery Advisory Committee within the next few weeks. It is my hope that the committee can hold its initial meeting in April when they can begin discussions on the first proposed program, the beverage container recovery program.

Mr. Speaker, the success of any waste recovery program will depend in large part on the participation and support of the residents of the Northwest Territories. I believe the Waste Reduction and Recovery Advisory Committee will be instrumental in ensuring the necessary support and participation in these worthwhile endeavours. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 23-15(3): Waste Reduction And Recovery Programs

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 455

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The Minister of Justice , Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 24-15(3): North Slave Correctional Centre Opening

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 456

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on March 31, 2004, the opening ceremony for the North Slave Adult Correctional Centre will take place.

This marks a significant step forward on modernizing the corrections system in the Northwest Territories. The North Slave Adult Correctional Centre will replace the 38-year-old Yellowknife Correctional Centre. The new centre will increase the ability of offenders to access appropriate programming to assist in their healing. The new centre will provide a safe and secure custody environment that supports rehabilitation.

I would like to recognize the work of the Aboriginal Advisory Group. The design of the facility and some of the programming that will be offered were shaped by their advice and guidance. We appreciate their time and their commitment to helping offenders reintegrate back into society with new positive values and skills.

I would like to invite residents to visit the new correctional centre to see it for themselves. An open house will be held from 6:00 to 9:00 p.m. on March 31, 2004. Tours will be available and employees will be on hand to answer questions. I encourage Members of this House and the public to tour the new facility on March 31st.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 24-15(3): North Slave Correctional Centre Opening

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 456

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Mackenzie Valley Environmental Review Board Pipeline Consultation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 456

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I rise to draw attention to an issue which is both important to myself and the community which I represent and one that speaks to the ambivalence of public government to listen to the people of the North.

Mr. Speaker, this government has repeatedly stated that its actions will be governed by the will of the people. To this end, it has repeatedly shown an effort to meet with the people by means of a public consultation process. I believe that public consultation should be at the forefront of all of our actions.

Mr. Speaker, I get concerned when agencies of public government, such as the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board, refused to listen to the concerns of the public and to the community that I serve. The Mackenzie Valley pipeline project will have a major impact on this territory and will have a lasting and significant impact on my community of Hay River. I would like to take a moment to highlight just a few of the impacts this project will have on Hay River.

Mr. Speaker, there are plans for a modular fabrication camp housing 300 persons within Hay River. There will be 5,500 rail cars bringing pipe to NTCL's barging facility. There will be another approximately 1,200 rail cars per annum carrying fuel over a five-year period. There will be some 3,000 pieces of heavy equipment railed or trucked to our community for movement to the construction camp sites. Over the construction phase, the proposed five-year camps will require 600 to 700 tons of supplies that will be staged in Hay River.

This proposed level of activity is just the tip of the iceberg, Mr. Speaker. Anyone with any vision can see that this project will have a very significant impact on the community of Hay River. Mr. Speaker, this is why I am both perplexed and concerned with the apparent lack of respect shown by the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board with their decision not to include Hay River in phase one of their environmental review process. Mr.

Speaker, phase one was to be a series of public meetings designed to gather evidence of what concerns the public has and to determine which issues will be examined in detail during phase two of the review. In a document written by the MVEIRB dated February 6, 2004, it is clear Hay River will be significantly impacted.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Mackenzie Valley Environmental Review Board Pipeline Consultation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 456

The Speaker

David Krutko

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? No, there aren't. You have unanimous consent. Conclude your statement.

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Mackenzie Valley Environmental Review Board Pipeline Consultation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 456

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That being said, I am mystified why the board declined to grant the Town of Hay River the request to hold public meetings in Hay River to listen to the concerns of the community. At the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister responsible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Mackenzie Valley Environmental Review Board Pipeline Consultation

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 456

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Gameti Spiritual Healing Workshop

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 456

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my Member's statement is on the Gameti spiritual healing workshop. During our visit to the Sahtu region early in February, Mr. Henry Zoe and myself had the opportunity to speak with the Deline people who at that time were talking about a cultural exchange trip on the land to Gameti. The Deline coordinator spoke on the Dene history, the passing down of knowledge to the younger generation and the essential movement to keep the traditions alive by embarking on this trip. By fundraising and seeking support from this government and other organizations, the trip to the Gameti spiritual healing workshop became a reality.

We were witness to the event yesterday at Gameti. That is what Minister Zoe promised to the people of Deline in early February at a public meeting. He told them he would invite the Sahtu MLA and he would meet them when they arrived in Gameti. True to his word, he kept this promise. Eighty people from Deline arrived in Gameti yesterday. They were highly grateful and appreciated Minister Zoe . Mr. Speaker, I want to say mahsi cho to the Gameti organizers for their hard work, to the people of Gameti for the warm welcome and to Minister Zoe for helping make this happen. We counted over 30 skidoos arriving in Gameti.

We saw at least 45 young people who had made the three-day trip to Gameti. Some of them were just 10 years old.

Mr. Speaker, we had important issues to deal with, with important changes coming our way and important decisions to make for the whole NWT. However, the most important actions we take are for our children. The looks on the children's faces and the joy at having made this trip, Mr. Speaker, is the big picture we always talk about. Small steps taken by this government like supporting community initiatives like this have a big impact on our people. We need to see more of this. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Gameti Spiritual Healing Workshop

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 457

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Waiving Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 457

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak today about some of the points that are wrong with the way the Housing Corporation is dealing with the purchase of 22 mobile homes.

Mr. Speaker, government should follow its policies like BIP and if it's going to exempt itself, it should provide justification on a timely basis. Government has not done that. Mr. Speaker, I might point out to you that I am not allowed to buy blank CDs from Wal-Mart out of my office budget even if it's cheaper to buy from there because they do not fall under the BIP. So why should the Housing Corporation be allowed to buy houses from the South because they think it's cheaper to buy south?

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, I say what's good for the goose should be good for the gander. Mr. Speaker, we are constantly threatening the diamond mines and any business wanting to get involved in pipeline activities that they have to leave the benefits north. If the government is not willing to follow its own principle and its own policy, what right does it have to impose this principle on multinational companies?

Mr. Speaker, government has an obligation to spend their capital money in ways that maximize the benefits for the North. We have business in the North. If they get this contract, they are willing to build 22 stick built homes, not mobile homes, but they are not even going to be considered. They are willing to send journeymen from Yellowknife to communities to hire community people to do the taping, siding and painting, but government says they can't do it. They are willing to use the trades people, electricians, plumbers and engineers, but government says nobody can do it in the North.

Mr. Speaker, if the government is going to introduce a major policy change like going from stick built houses to create jobs and then change their minds to buy mobile homes, the government has an obligation to let us know that. It is wrong for the government to use a scare tactic to the Members of this House, on this side of the floor, to say we have to break this rule and go straight on through because otherwise there will be no new homes in the communities this fall. Mr. Speaker, this decision was made months ago and we didn't find out in this House until we read it in the newspaper and neither did the businesses who might be interested in bidding on this.

Mr. Speaker, I, for one, refuse to be treated like a mushroom in the dark expected to live on a regular dose of manure from Cabinet.

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Waiving Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 457

Some Hon. Members

Whoa!

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Waiving Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 457

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, where there is a major contract...Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Waiving Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 457

The Speaker

David Krutko

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? No, there aren't. Conclude your statement, Ms. Lee .

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Waiving Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 457

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, where there is a major contract, like providing 45 homes for two years, the government should first consult with northern contractors to see if anyone can do the job. The government has not done that. In fact, they have been putting off paving the way for northern businesses to discourage them. Mr. Speaker, we have a business right here in the North who could do the job on budget, on time and create jobs in the process, but not only do they not get the benefit of a BIP, they don't even get the courtesy of prior notice and that is wrong and the government has to change that.

Mr. Speaker, our northern businesses stay in business through the good times and bad and when there is an opportunity of a real project that they can sink their teeth into, those projects are allowed to float right over their heads, straight down south and the Cabinet sits around justifying it.

Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, I know what you would say if the Fort McPherson Tent and Canvas Shop were denied a contract to manufacture 100 mega-sized tents because it is cheaper to get them done in China and not even be given the chance to look into the project. So, Mr. Speaker, I know that you would not stand for it. You would hold the House down for a week to stop it, and I don't think we should allow this to happen, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

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Waiving Of Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 457

The Speaker

David Krutko

Just to remind the Member to keep the Speaker out of your debate; I am trying to be neutral here, and it doesn't fit to bring the Speaker into the debate. Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Waiving Of The Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 457

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to utilize my Member's statement today so that I can again bring up a topic that has been heavily discussed in this House over the last week. The topic is the tender for 22 mobile homes, which are to be sent to various communities throughout the Territories. The tender was issued by the Housing Corporation and closes this Friday, April 2nd.

Mr. Speaker, I have some very serious concerns with the evolution of this tender, the decision-making process on how and why the business incentive policy was waived on this has not, to date, been fully explained to this House. This causes me and some of my colleagues a great deal of consternation. Waiving the BIP on this tender is one issue, Mr. Speaker. The other issue is the fact that this

government has given direction to the Housing Corporation which effectively pulls the rug out from any made-in-the-North solution to community housing needs in the NWT. I have not been given a clear answer yet on when the decision was made to not consult with northern manufacturers. At the very least, Mr. Speaker, the government should table a chronology of events on how, what and when things transpired to arrive at the decisions that they've made. As I understand it, the Housing Corporation has been in contact and consulting with southern manufacturers for the past six months. Mr.

Speaker, this would lead me to believe that the direction to exclude the northern manufacturers was predetermined. Waiving the BIP is further proof that the government really has no intention of supporting the northern manufacturing sector.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that this is the perfect example of a government that, like the last government, talks out of both sides of its mouth. They talk about how important it is to diversify our economy, create jobs in the communities, train young people and grow community capacity, but when given a fine opportunity to work with northern manufacturing firms to find a solution that fits our territory, the issue of tender...That, in my mind, flies directly in the face of what we as a government are trying to accomplish.

Mr. Speaker, the lack of consideration on the part of this government in this whole thing is shameful. Does this government support northern manufacturing or not? Judging by their actions to date, I would suggest they don't. Like my colleague, Ms. Lee , from Range Lake, I know we have the capacity here in the Northwest Territories to accomplish this tender. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Waiving Of The Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 458

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Taxation To Facilitate Spending In The North

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 458

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the last two weeks, I have raised several issues related to the economic stability of the Northwest Territories, encouraging the Minister of Finance to look at several tax measures that would be a benefit to the investment in our territory. Mr. Speaker, my researchers have found several interesting items that should intrigue the imagination of our government; none more so than an

article on economic development in the Edmonton Journal, dated March 25th.

Mr. Speaker, I quote from the article, "Ireland is the poster child for success, going from one of the poorest economies to one of the richest in two decades." It seems to relate to our own economy. "It combined an attractive corporate tax culture with education to produce skilled workers for the companies that set up shop there." The

article also states that, "an investment tax credit works better than grants and tax breaks since the latter leads to more failures than successes."

Mr. Speaker, I did, on several occasions, raise the important issue of taxation to facilitate spending and vocational training in the North. Mr. Speaker, knowing that this government is beginning a process of developing a working group on a joint pipeline committee, I would offer that they build into their mandate a component that would address a tax regime. This tax regime could be modeled after the investment tax credit which could be used to reward spending money in the territory and can be broadly available to all industries.

Mr. Speaker, during this budget session we've heard loudly that the federal government will not readdress our fiscal situation. The Premier has stated this, so did the Finance Minister , and so did the Minister of Health and Social Services . They were also on record as saying this as well. It is time our Premier and his Cabinet come to introduce some new ideology on tax reform as an indication to the federal government that we are serious about our sovereignty issues. I hope that they will take some of our ideas and, over the course of time, begin to look at implementing some of these suggestions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Taxation To Facilitate Spending In The North

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 458

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Comments On The Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 458

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my topic today is to ask an obvious question. What is the BIP? It's the business incentive policy, Mr. Speaker, but really what does that mean? It is to create a level playing field whereby we formally acknowledge that, tucked well within the beauty of our northern fresh air, our friendly-spirited environment, the government recognizes simple factors that need to be considered; obvious factors, Mr. Speaker, such as a jug of milk here costs more than it does in Calgary, and a kilowatt isn't as cheap as it is in Edmonton. Mr.

Speaker, labour comes at a premium higher than it does in Fort McMurray. These are key principles that require corrective solutions and proactive steps. That is why we have the BIP.

Mr. Speaker, the BIP is intended to bring simple baseline market levels closer together so our businesses can compete with southern industries, national industries. Mr. Speaker, by waiving the BIP we could be affecting those who potentially are going to be taxed higher, so we are taking opportunity away from them but the government is asking us to support their corporate tax increase. It seems kind of strange to me. Mr. Speaker, waiving the BIP to me is a slap in the face of the principles it stands for.

All I am going to suggest is that those who are responsible for slapping these people in the face save some energy in your arm to wave goodbye to our good, hard-earned money. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Comments On The Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 458

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Health Care Staffing Shortages In Nunakput

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 458

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This morning, I received a copy of a letter by the director of client services of Inuvik Regional Health and Social Services Authority, from the office of the Honourable Minister Michael Miltenberger , Minister of Health and Social Services , advising of the temporary closure of the Holman health centre. The closure of the health centre commenced on

March 26, 2004, and is expected to last until April 15, 2004.

Mr. Speaker, during this time the health centre will be closed. There will be no clinics; however, a nurse will be available for emergencies only. No clients can call any hospital emergency room department. In my Member's statement on January 20, 2004, I voiced the exact same concerns about health and staffing services in that riding. I understand the department is having a difficult time recruiting nurses in the Northwest Territories. The reduction in services is continuing to be a problem. The residents of Holman should no longer have to be the ones who suffer a reduction in health services simply because their community is hard to staff.

Mr. Speaker, when will the Department of Health and Social Services find a solution to ensure the staffing requirements are met in Holman or, Mr. Speaker, will the department wait until something happens to a person before they take action? I will be following up with the Department of Health and Social Services on health care staffing shortages in that riding. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Health Care Staffing Shortages In Nunakput

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 459

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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The Importance Of The Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 459

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. I, too, rise and I would like to talk about the business incentive policy. That is of great concern to residents and businesses I represent in the Nahendeh riding. They have indicated to me that they want the BIP enforced and used at all times. It was put into place to recognize the high costs of our northern contractors who have to endure year-round costs where southern competitors don't pay taxes here or have overhead. The North is a great place to live, but if we don't keep and utilize the business incentive program, the whole of the NWT will just become a satellite community for southern companies.

---Applause

Government is supposed to work for the good of our people and here is an example of a good program being put by the wayside. If the business incentive policy is costing the government money, they have yet to show us.

---Applause

If this is true, then we will have to revisit how we best support and affirm our businesses by our business incentive policy. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

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The Importance Of The Business Incentive Policy

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 459

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Investing In The North To Develop Capacity And Affordable Housing

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 459

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today, along with a couple of my colleagues, I would like to speak about the business incentive policy in relation to importing mobile home units. Everyone knows that the cost of doing business in the North is higher. In order to create a more level playing field while at the same time developing our northern economy, our government decided that it was worth the price of a potential monetary premium to see jobs and money stay in the North.

The difficulty is that the financial resources are tight. There is a temptation to jump to the conclusion that, without the BIP, our purchase of goods and services and homes will go further. Mr. Speaker, I don't think that northern suppliers and manufacturers were given the advantage of turning their mind to the supply of these 22 units that have been discussed extensively in this House over the past few days. Yet, had the same effort been applied to dialogue with northerners to find a northern solution to this need, I think the results might have been quite substantial.

It is quite a leap to go from stick built homes built on site in communities, which was something this government has insisted on for many years, to imported modular or mobile housing units.

We don't know, Mr. Speaker, if we are actually saving anything. Because the benefits of buying north are not easy to quantify, we fall into the mindset that everything from the South is cheaper and better. I don't agree with that. In our harsh conditions here in the North, where temperatures can range easily from 30 below to 30 above, a better investment of our scarce resources might have been more prudently spent on a northern product. Not to mention the benefits of keeping jobs and incomes in the North.

Mr. Speaker, I realize that it may not be possible to pull back the tender of these 22 units and still meet the pressing needs for these units in the communities that are now expecting them in a timely manner. But, I think the message to the government should be that in the future, before we spend an inordinate amount of time on how we could defend diverging from our current procurement policies, we invest an equal or greater amount of time in consulting northerners about how we could efficiently and cost-effectively deal with the need of affordable housing while adhering to this government's philosophy of building capacity, creating jobs and economy here in the North.

As one of my colleagues alluded to, we spend a lot of energy convincing large corporate clients to be good citizens. Mr. Speaker, we need to lead by example, be good corporate citizens, and practice what we preach. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Investing In The North To Develop Capacity And Affordable Housing

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 459

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Supporting The Community Involvement Of Seniors

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 459

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to raise the important issue relevant to seniors and the contributions they make to our society. I met with the Seniors' Society last week here in Yellowknife and also another elders' committee from Lutselk'e yesterday.

Although these meetings were bound together under different circumstances, the underlying points raised during these discussions were very similar: issues pertaining to health services, acute and outpatient care, and community health representation, just to name a few, and many other issues related to housing and seniors'

and elders' involvement in our education system. Mr. Speaker, the role of this demographic sector of our society cannot be undermined by our fiscal restraints, resource development and devolution issues. I don't think there is any other sector of our society which can make such a priceless contribution towards improving community support and assisting youth and other seniors through increased volunteerism and community involvement.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that organizations like the NWT Seniors' Society and community elders' committees should be given equal consideration by this government on all fronts related to their work, their health and their cultures and especially their relentless dedication and support that they have for us, their MLAs, to make their lives more meaningful and enjoyable and, more importantly, more memorable like those many other lives that they touch and improve every day. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Supporting The Community Involvement Of Seniors

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 460

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Consistent Application Of Government Policies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 460

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A few days ago in this Assembly, we learned that Cabinet has approved the forgiveness of $800,000 in taxpayers' money due to a business deal that we went into not working out. Even though we had adequate protection for the taxpayers' money, Cabinet made a decision to forego it. In more recent days, we learned that a major policy of this government, the business incentive policy, was dodged in favour of an assumption that only a southern product could be brought into the North on an economic basis. The signals that our government is sending to the business community, Mr.

Speaker, are very confusing. They are destabilizing, inconsistent and, above all, they lack what is very important to any government, and that is good faith and integrity.

We are partners. We espouse this. We have fostered this attitude, but we are not living up to it. We are putting to the test the faith and the trust of our partners in the business community by such inconsistent application of our policies. Mr. Speaker, our economy, the way we manage it, is evolving, and so should our policies and the way we conduct business ourselves. We need to be open and transparent in the way we do this. We need to make sure that our rules and our principles are out there all the time for everyone to see and that we live up to them.

The business community asks for nothing more than a level playing field, and we are not delivering. Where are the rules? The message that we are sending is that the exception is the rule, and that is unacceptable. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Consistent Application Of Government Policies

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 460

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Yakeleya .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 460

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recognize someone very important in my life, a most important teacher, my mother, Laura Lennie.

---Applause

I also recognize the NWT Suicide Prevention Steering Committee and four trainers, these people who contribute their energy and time to saving lives in the Northwest Territories. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 460

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Miltenberger .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 460

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to also recognize the members of the Northwest Territories Suicide Prevention Steering Committee in the gallery with us today. They have been meeting in Yellowknife with the trainers for the last two days and are responsible for overseeing the three-week Northwest Territories Suicide Prevention Training Program and other territorial suicide prevention.

This year, we have with us Sandy Little, the chairperson from Health and Social Services; Hazel Nerysoo from Fort McPherson; Helen Gruben from Tuktoyaktuk; Laura Lennie from Tulita; Judy Desjarlais from Yellowknife; Carole Lane from Yellowknife; and the trainers are Frank Hope from Inuvik; Frank Edwards from Inuvik; Linda Todd from Yellowknife; and Hazel Nerysoo, who does double duty as a trainer as well. I would like to ask you to join me in welcoming them to the Assembly and thank them for their good work.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 460

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Zoe .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 460

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize one of my constituents, Mr. Ernie Smith. He is also a band councillor from Rae-Edzo. Welcome to the House. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 460

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Allen .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 460

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure this afternoon to recognize Frank Sambo with whom I have a long history of friendship. As well, we were team mates in the 1989 canoe race at Aklavik and the winning team. Mr. McLeod was also representing Fort Providence. As well, I'd like to recognize Mr. Frank Pope, also a fellow Inuvik resident. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 460

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, 5ecognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Handley .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 460

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I'm honoured to recognize two constituents: Carole Lane and Major Karen Hoeft. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 461

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Menicoche .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 461

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'd just like to recognize Mr. Frank Pope, a former Fort Simpson resident now residing in Inuvik. Thank you very much.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 461

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I'd like to recognize a constituent of mine, Susan Nerysoo, sub-chief, and also Frank Edwards, a former constituent of mine now living in Inuvik. Welcome to the House.

---Applause

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Hay River North , Mr. Delorey .

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Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated in my Member's statement, there are some concerns from my area with the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board and the round of consultations that they're doing. I would like to ask the Minister of RWED if he is aware of the concerns that Hay River has with that board not coming to Hay River to do some reviews. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development , Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the department is aware there was some concern raised by the town of Hay River over the proposed consultation

schedule in this first, preliminary consultation. Thank you.

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Return To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister inform this House if this board has a fiduciary responsibility to consult with all affected parties when a review is undertaken? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of RWED , Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I think it's important to keep in mind that the board is simply going around to assess whether or not there is significant public concern and, if so, that would trigger the joint panel review. I think we probably all know that phase of the review is inevitable. This preliminary screening and work that they're doing now is just to confirm and hear from some of the people in the Northwest Territories what those concerns might be. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what action is the government willing to take or the Minister willing to take to ensure that the residents of Hay River have an opportunity to be heard by this review board? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of RWED , Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

We are making sure that we follow the process and sit in on the meetings in order to hear public concerns, but I certainly take a lot of comfort in knowing and believing that this will go to phase two and there will be a joint panel review and, at that point, there will be significant opportunity not only for the residents of Hay River...I take the Member's point that Hay River stands to benefit hugely from a development of this nature and I think they're poised quite well to do so, but the board will hear from the residents of Hay River, it will hear from residents across the Northwest Territories and I'm certain will take their input and give it a lot of weight. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Delorey .

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Supplementary To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

Paul Delorey

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm glad to hear that the Minister has confidence that the concerns will be addressed in phase two. But, Mr. Speaker, in the work plan for the environmental assessment of the Mackenzie Valley gas project it states very clearly that phase one of the review board will hold a series of public hearings in the Mackenzie Valley to gather evidence of any public concerns and determine which issues will be examined in detail during phase two.

So if communities haven't got a chance to voice their concerns during phase one, how are they going to get in on phase two when it's specifically phase one that addresses what issues will be looked at in detail during phase two? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of RWED , Mr. Bell .

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Further Return To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 461

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you. I believe that there will be a chance in phase two for all residents to bring forward their significant concerns and I will acknowledge that the concerns of Hay River may not be identical to the concerns of other communities. There are going to be issues specific in nature, but they won't be from left field. They are going to involve business opportunities, employment opportunities, environmental impacts and those sorts of things. I think the broadest categories of issues are being documented at this point. There will be plenty of room.

As well, I'm certain that our department or the Government of the Northwest Territories will make an intervention and we plan to do so. We are an interested party in the cooperation plan. We will certainly make an intervention on behalf of all residents across the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Question 109-15(3): Involvement Of Hay River In The Pipeline Consultation Process

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to my Member's statement, my question today is for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation . Mr. Speaker, as I stated, there have been lots of less-than-good behaviour on the part of the Cabinet and the Housing Corporation in the way they have dealt with this. Mr. Speaker, I think that exempting BIP, exempting themselves from their own policy, requires a justification. We still have not been provided with any evidence that proves that to us. We still do not have any documents, although the Ministers have promised for the last week or so.

Second of all, I'm providing the Minister with information that tells us there are at least two, if not more, northern businesses who could do this, who could deliver the goods on time with or without BIP, who would have maximum economic spin-offs by creating jobs and building our tax money here and everything. So I would like to know -- the only thing I think they need is more time than three weeks to put together a plan for 45 homes -- if the Minister would consider extending the contract time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. McLeod .

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Return To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my information tells me that we have had over 30 tenders picked up today and of those 30, 17 are from the North. Now we will consider, we have committed in yesterday's question period, to reviewing this whole initiative with Cabinet on Thursday. There is going to be some concern because there are a number of tender documents being processed right now. However, if there is a concern raised by the Member needing more time, how much more time that is I'm not sure, we do have a real tight time frame in this situation.

A portion of these units are intended to go onto the barges and we need to have them in place by September. We may be able to defer a portion of it. I can't say that with any certainty. We can certainly look at it, but at this point I can't make that commitment. Thank you.

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Return To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Among many anomalies in this process, one of the things I've learned also is that the tender documents that were put out for this contract did not even have specifications as to what exactly the Housing Corporation was looking for. They didn't even have square footage that they were looking for. I have no idea how the Housing Corporation or Cabinet do their calculations if they don't even know those kinds of assumptions or don't put them out there. I don't know how they expect the businesses to apply for it.

Anyway, okay. Thank you. Mr. Speaker...

---Laughter

I have been here long enough to know that the pressure on Cabinet is considerably lessened if we're not here to push them. I don't know if we're going to be here tomorrow. I am not going to take the word from the Minister. I would like to know if the Minister is really open and Cabinet is open to revisiting this situation, changing their minds and to extending this contract by two weeks. I'm asking for two weeks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. McLeod .

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Further Return To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we're taking note of the concerns raised in Committee of the Whole and certainly in this House. We take all the questions very seriously. The question to defer by two weeks we will put forward. Our tendered document that the Member has referenced as not having a lot of detail, I'd like to point out to the Member that this document is something I'm prepared to table. It's a supply tender for commodity. It is not a construction contract. We are looking for a lowest-priced tender in this case. It does meet the technical requirements.

The question again for the two weeks is something we may be able to accommodate. I would certainly take it seriously and bring it forward and respond as soon as possible. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Minister mentioned there are lots of businesses that have picked up the tenders, but that doesn't necessarily mean that as many businesses are going to be able to actually meet the bidding requirements and have them back on April 2nd, because my understanding is the notice for this sort of project for these houses was so short and it was only for three weeks. Mr. Speaker, I'd also like to still know when he's prepared to give us the background information on which the Cabinet decided to waive the BIP. We still don't have that, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. McLeod .

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Further Return To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just got the package and it's being copied right now and will be distributed to the Members. It's in the works as we speak and I apologize for being late by a day. The commitment for Monday was a tough one to meet.

---Laughter

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Further Return To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 462

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think he's at least four days late on that information. Mr. Speaker, I accept

that the Minister is an honourable Member and I'm willing to trust his commitment, but I want to know from the Minister and I want him to clarify that he would, in fact, go to Cabinet and ask for a two-week extension. Not just, I will see what I can do, but would he commit to asking for a two-week extension? Yes or no, please, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. McLeod .

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Further Return To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We will run that through the Housing Corporation to see if we can deal with the deadline. That is the biggest concern at this point. I will guarantee the Member that I will take this issue to Cabinet and indicate the different arguments that have come forward on why we should extend the tendering process for another two weeks. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Question 110-15(3): Justification For Waiving The Business Incentive Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions this afternoon are for the Premier . They relate to the whole area of our government's application of policy and the measures by which we apply that. It was interesting yesterday afternoon, Mr. Speaker, in response to a question from my colleague, Mr. Hawkins , that the Premier said the following, and I quote from the unedited Hansard, "Mr. Speaker, I have to say that policies are policies. They're general directions and guidelines. They're not one of the Ten Commandments. They're not laws.

There is room for some exception there where we can warrant it." So I'm a little confused and I guess I'd like to start by asking the Premier if he could give us this afternoon Cabinet's definition of policy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Return To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, a policy outlines an intention and a direction that the government is going to take. It basically describes a purpose, it describes some basic principles that we're going to work through, it describes the scope of what we will do and what's covered by the policy and what it's impact will be. It also includes some background on how the policy will be implemented, what the authority and accountability is.

As well, Mr. Speaker, it also includes a

section which says that the prerogative of the Executive Council, which if I may read says, "...nothing in this policy shall in any way be construed to limit the prerogative of the Executive Council to make decisions or take actions respecting the provisions in the policy." So, Mr. Speaker, it's a statement of what we are intending on doing. There are times, Mr. Speaker, where there are conflicting or two different objectives and we have to determine which is the highest priority.

There are times and there have been cases in the past where exceptions have been made to policies and it will probably continue in this government and future governments. We try to limit it and only do it where we really haven't got much choice in weighing alternatives. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's a helpful discussion of the fluid realm in which policy is stated. I'm not challenging that Cabinet should have the authority at times to make exception. I think that is a valuable part of our institution. However, as the Premier said yesterday, where we can warrant it. Principles like this come into play very dramatically, especially when you're a business person. So, Mr. Speaker, what I'd like to ask now is, what criteria are in place. Can the Minister put some shape and some form and some scope to what the criteria are that would guide Cabinet when making an exception to a rule becomes warranted? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to say that in the cases in my experience where the government has had to make an exception to a policy have been driven by competing objectives where we have more than one objective. In the case that the Member is referring to, it has to do with the need for affordable, adequate housing in communities as opposed to ensuring maximum northern benefits. Which one is going to be weighed more highly? We often, Mr. Speaker, make exceptions in another area. Another area as an example is on negotiated contracts.

We have a policy on tendering everything and putting it out and advertising it, but we often have negotiated contracts. Again, we have an objective there: a northern benefit, a local benefit versus getting the best price.

Mr. Speaker, the reason we have policies is that we need to have some direction. We want to give the public clear direction of how we're functioning as a government. At the same time, we don't give a policy the same sort of stature we would have to a law, for example. If we don't want to make exceptions to it, then make it into a law. If we want to leave ourselves some flexibility on competing objectives, keep it as a policy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, then to the business community doing business with this government, and we are a major part of the economy here, how then do I take that kind of an explanation and work it into my business plan so that I know that there's going to be some consistency, some predictability, some stability to how I operate my business and how I do business with the GNWT? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 463

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned before, there are times when it is necessary to make an exception to a policy. Those times we like to keep to a minimum. We very seldom make exceptions. In fact, if we take the business incentive policy, for example, to my recollection there have only been three exceptions made to it. On tendering, we do that much more frequently. The business community is very aware that we have the BIP. They're very aware that we tender a lot of things, but also very aware that we negotiate some contracts, we do some as sole source, we do some as standing offers.

They know there are a variety of ways and depending on their interest they may promote one more than another one. The environment cannot be absolutely certain for them, but at the same time they know we have a policy that generally and by far that most of the time we are going to follow the policy. There will be opportunities or situations where we feel we need to make an exception. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Would the Minister commit to developing and putting to this Assembly and the business community some list of criteria that would help the business community make some judgments about when it is or is not a good idea to get into business with this government? I'm not getting a whole lot of security really that this Cabinet wants to do business on a level playing field. Can you tell us how you might go about setting out those rules more clearly? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Further Return To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, it sounds like the Member is asking me to have the government do a policy on when we make exceptions to policies.

---Laughter

That might confuse the whole thing even more. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development is working on a contract registry. They're doing some work in the whole area with BIP and how we do our business. We are going to continue to work on that. We're going to continue to try to improve on our communications when we need to make an exception. I can assure the business community that by far we will find that we are following our policies. If we need to communicate where we need to make exceptions or exceptions are necessary, then I hope that we can communicate that very well.

The business community, I don't think, would find that there are many exceptions at all and will generally find that doing business with our government is a great opportunity for them in many cases. Of course, there are some companies that probably do very little business with us. Most of their business is with the private sector. That's going to continue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Question 111-15(3): Consistent Application Of Government Policy

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll pick up where some of my colleagues have left off with my line of questioning. I guess the first question I'll ask to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation -- and I'll get right to the point, Mr. Speaker -- is why were northern manufacturers not consulted in this process? Thank you.

---Applause

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Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. McLeod .

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Return To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, in this whole initiative, our goal was to provide affordable housing to the non-market communities and our intention was to bring it to a cost where it would be affordable and people would like to utilize it. We contacted a number of different organizations and boards and agencies across the North and we did have a very positive response. We felt because we had an open bidding process that we would go that route. The manufacturing community does have an opportunity to bid on this, as does everybody else. Thank you.

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Return To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again I'll ask the question. How come northern manufacturers were not consulted in this process? I know the Minister spoke of contacting different boards and agencies from across the North and I'm just wondering, Mr. Speaker, can the Minister supply us with who was contacted and when they were contacted? As I see it, the northern manufacturing industry here in the Northwest Territories was not contacted. So please, Mr. Speaker, can the Minister provide us with the information on who was contacted and when they were contacted? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

The Speaker

David Krutko

Two questions. Mr. Minister.

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Further Return To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, yes, we can provide some information, in terms of who was contacted in writing. There is also a Web site that we have available for the Housing Corporation. I also want to point out that this is a portion of our larger capital projects and the information is distributed in the same way. We have $32 million in capital projects. This is going to be around $2.3 million. We do not go around contacting every company to personally knock on their door and say, yes, we have this coming up, would you like to bid? Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 464

The Speaker

David Krutko

Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know most of the gentlemen across the other side of this House have at one time or another stood up and extolled the virtues of diversifying our economy and supporting our manufacturing industry. I'd like to ask the Minister one final question and that is if he and the Premier can put together a chronology of events that lead up to this decision being made. I'd like some detail. That's the one thing that's missing in this whole equation, Mr. Speaker, is the lack of detail to the Regular Members on this side of the House and I think it's shameful. I think the Minister should provide that chronology of events at his earliest convenience. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. McLeod .

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Further Return To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

Michael McLeod

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have begun drafting a chronology of events. We'll have it prepared and provided to the Members as soon as possible. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Question 112-15(3): Consultation With Northern Manufacturers

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes , Mr. Allen .

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Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs this afternoon, with regard to the concept and development of an NWT-wide summer Olympic games. I'm going to ask the Minister if he can provide an update in this House as to what stage he's at. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Zoe .

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Return To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Mr. Speaker, I'm not quite clear as to the question that the honourable Member is raising. An NWT-wide Olympic games? I haven't heard of anything of that sort before. Thank you.

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Return To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

The Speaker

David Krutko

Mr. Allen , could you clarify your question?

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Supplementary To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll acknowledge that the Minister is not aware of the concept, so I'll go on to my next question if I may be permitted. Would the Minister guide his department to work more closely with the TSOs to sanction certain qualifying meets to overcome some of the high costs of regional and territorial qualifying events? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Zoe .

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Further Return To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes.

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Further Return To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Allen .

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Further Return To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that's a good way to respond back to questions. I'm going to ask the Minister if he would kindly define his

interpretation of what an elite athlete is at this point. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

The Speaker

David Krutko

The question is out of order because you're trying to get an opinion from the Minister and I think the question should be based on trying to get information that's privy to the Minister, not an opinion. Mr. Allen .

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Supplementary To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

Roger Allen

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had asked the question about the definition and that complies with certain statements he made in the opening remarks about how we treat elite athletes. So I'm going to ask again in terms of a definition, would he explain what the department considers an elite athlete? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Zoe .

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Further Return To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if the honourable Member wants me to give him a definition, it's someone like the honourable Member when he was an athlete in Inuvik in skiing. Someone in that calibre. Thank you.

---Applause

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Further Return To Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Question 113-15(3): Definition Of An Elite Athlete

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

The Speaker

David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 465

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm going to get off the topic of the BIP here and change gears a little bit.

---Applause

I'm sure that will come as some relief to the guys across the way. I want to ask the Minister responsible for the Audit Bureau a few questions and that pertains to a letter I received from them with regard to vacancies in the division. I've done a little bit more research on that, and I see that there are six vacancies in the Audit Bureau, out of 14 possible positions in that division. I'm just wondering, Mr. Speaker, if I could ask the Minister why these positions in some cases have been vacant for over 36 months. Mr. Speaker, that's three years.

If they haven't been filled for three years, my concern is what's happening with the funding that's going into that division for these positions. Forty-four percent of the positions in the Audit Bureau are vacant today. Mr. Speaker, I'm asking the Minister what is happening with the funding that's going into the Audit Bureau if these positions are vacant in some cases for up to three years? Thank you.

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Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 466

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Return To Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 466

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can't speak for what the previous governments did with the money, but what we do in cases if we needed the work done and we didn't have the resources within, that means our own staff, we would look at contracting individuals to take on some of that workload. So that could be done in some cases. As well, it could be used as an area of saving some money from within and turning that back to the consolidated revenue. But I can't speak for the three years.

I'm aware of the four positions, unless there are a couple more out there for hire right now and waiting for actual closure on those positions. But I'm aware of four and I've sent a letter to Members. Thank you.

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Return To Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 466

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 466

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The next question I would have is if a couple of these positions, and they're senior positions, Mr. Speaker, have been vacant -- one for over three years, the other coming up on two years -- will the Minister consider rolling these positions up? If the Audit Bureau has gotten by without these positions for this amount of time, does that cause the Minister some concern? I know he spoke of the last government, but this is this government. Today is today. Will the Minister undertake to have a review of this division and see if we can roll up some of these positions that have been vacant for up to three years? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 466

The Speaker

David Krutko

Minister of Finance , Mr. Roland .

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Further Return To Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 466

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated earlier, I will get more details. But again, if in fact we are using those dollars to contract individuals to do that work on behalf of government, then we will look at doing that as sort of a way of getting the job done. But I am aware that, as well, for those jobs that are vacant there have been a number of attempts to fill them. Unfortunately on a couple of occasions, there were no candidates that were accepted for those positions, so they have looked at going through the process once again.

But I will take that concern forward and get more details as to what's done, if in fact the money in previous years has been used to contract some of the work out. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 466

The Speaker

David Krutko

Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Question 114-15(3): Vacancies In The GNWT Audit Bureau

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 466

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister, for your reply. I wanted to ask, Mr. Speaker, if the Minister could provide that information in terms of what is being contracted out. There is some confusion in terms of what the funding for these vacant positions is used for and, Mr. Speaker, if that money is used for contracting out, then I would like to see the Minister give this Ho