Debates of Dec. 8th, 1992

This is page numbers 331 - 365 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was community .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Interim Report Of The R.c.m.p. Public Complaints Commission On Treatment Of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds

Statement From Frontline Workers Of Family Violence

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Return To Written Question 12-12(3): Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Renewable Resources Officer Position For Arctic Red River

Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

D.p.w. Discrimination Against Aboriginal People In Kitikmeot Region

Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Location Of Premier

Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Return To Written Question 12-12(3): Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Committee Report 5-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 3

Committee Report 6-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions, Report On The Proposed Elimination Of The Board Of Directors For The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Committee Report 7-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions, Report On The Proposed Elimination Of The Student Financial Assistance Board

Item 11: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Extended Adjournment Of The House

Revert Back To Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Campaign Of The International Fund For Animal Welfare

Bill 16: Norman Wells Natural Gas Distribution System Act

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

To Delete $155,000 From Tax Administration, Department Of Finance

To Adopt Bill 14, As Amended

Committee Report 3-12(3): Final Report Of The Special Committee On Constitutional Reform

G.n.w.t. Undertake Review And Assessment Of N.w.t.'s National Constitutional Priorities And Objectives

G.n.w.t. Preserve Role In Intergovernmental Affairs In Relation To Constitution

Concerns Of Pursuing Implementation Of Charlottetown Accord

Committee Report 7-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions, Report On The Proposed Elimination Of The Student Financial Assistance Board

To Adopt Recommendation No. 1

To Adopt Recommendation No. 2

Committee Report 5-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 3

G.n.w.t. Work With Departmental Staff In Health And Social Services Amalgamation

Provision Of Social Assistance Manual In Inuktitut

G.n.w.t. Review Proposed Respite Care Policy

G.n.w.t. Review Pilot Project Of Para-professional Counselling

Committee Report 6-12(3): Standing Committee On Agencies, Boards And Commissions, Report On The Proposed Elimination Of The Board Of Directors For The Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

To Adopt Recommendation No. 1

To Adopt Recommendation No. 2

To Adopt Recommendation No. 3

To Adopt Recommendation No. 4

To Adopt Recommendation No. 5

To Adopt Recommendation No. 6

To Adopt Recommendation No. 7

Bill 2:

An Act To Amend The Condominium Act

Bill 7:

An Act To Amend The Locksmiths, Security Guards And Other Security Occupations Act

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 10:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act

Bill 13: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1993-94

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Mr. James Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Mr. Bernhardt , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Hon. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Nerysoo , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Dennis Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. Todd , Mr. Tony Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 331

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Good afternoon. Before we commence with Orders of the Day, I would like to welcome in the gallery the frontline workers in the field of family violence from 16 communities. They are in Yellowknife for a week long conference.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 28-12(3): Interim Report Of The R.c.m.p. Public Complaints Commission On Treatment Of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 331

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have circulated to the Members of this House a copy of the interim report of the R.C.M.P. Public Complaints Commission hearing into the treatment of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds.

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Minister's Statement 28-12(3): Interim Report Of The R.c.m.p. Public Complaints Commission On Treatment Of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 331

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Excuse me, Mr. Kakfwi , is this an emergency statement?

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Minister's Statement 28-12(3): Interim Report Of The R.c.m.p. Public Complaints Commission On Treatment Of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 331

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Yes, I forgot to make that announcement.

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Minister's Statement 28-12(3): Interim Report Of The R.c.m.p. Public Complaints Commission On Treatment Of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 331

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Proceed with your emergency statement, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 28-12(3): Interim Report Of The R.c.m.p. Public Complaints Commission On Treatment Of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 331

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, this is an emergency statement. I have circulated to the Members of this House a copy of the interim report of the R.C.M.P. Public Complaints Commission hearing into the treatment of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds. This interim report follows a hearing held in Iqaluit last March, over a period of seven days. The commission panel was chaired by Alan Williams, the former Attorney General of British Columbia, and included Lazarus Arreak of the Northwest Territories and Jane Evans. I am pleased that the interim report has been made public at this time. Under the provisions of the R.C.M.P.

Act, the report must be sent in its interim form to the Commissioner of the R.C.M.P. and to the federal Solicitor General.

The R.C.M.P. Commissioner is obliged to consider the report and to advise what, if any, further action will be taken with respect to the complaints. Moreover, if the Commissioner decides not to act on any findings or recommendations set out in the interim report, he must give reasons for not taking action. Following this process the Chair of the Complaints Commission will prepare a final report setting out the findings and the recommendations it has made, presumably taking into account the response, if any, of the Commissioner of the R.C.M.P.

Because the process is not complete, it is premature for me to make more than preliminary comments at this time. However, I believe I can say that I am pleased with the extensive discussion of the facts and circumstances, and the detailed recommendations put forward for response by the R.C.M.P. The report pulls no punches in its criticism of the treatment of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds by the criminal justice system, in which the report acknowledges the R.C.M.P. play such a dominant role.

It is also very encouraging to see that the report stresses the need for victim services throughout the criminal justice process, something which you have heard me say on a number of occasions since taking on the Justice portfolio, and something you will hear more about in the future.

Mr. Speaker, finally I note in passing that with the encouragement of our government, the federal prosecutor's offices in Yellowknife and Iqaluit now have victim witness assistance to provide some measure of services for persons in the position that Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds was in. As well, through funding support from the Department of Justice, the Victim Services Program is now available within the R.C.M.P. offices in Yellowknife. I look forward, with interest, to the timely response of the Commissioner of the R.C.M.P. to the findings and recommendations made in this interim report. Mahsi.

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Minister's Statement 28-12(3): Interim Report Of The R.c.m.p. Public Complaints Commission On Treatment Of Kitty Nowdluk Reynolds

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 331

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi . Ministers' Statements. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Ningark .

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Statement From Frontline Workers Of Family Violence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 331

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of the women working against family violence, it is my pleasure to make a statement directed to all of the politicians. "We are frontline workers of family violence, representing 16 communities across the N.W.T. "We are discussing the shocking levels of violence against women and children. How do you see your responsibility in terms of rectifying the problems? How do you think the male leadership can best provide direction on these issues?" Thank you.

---Applause

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Statement From Frontline Workers Of Family Violence

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 332

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Ningark . Members' Statements. Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 332

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Pudlat on November 20, 1992. Mr. Speaker, it concerns the search and rescue boat that Mr. Pudlat was requesting for Sanikiluaq. Mr. Speaker, search and rescue funding is provided under the new initiatives program administered by the National Search and Rescue Secretariat in Ottawa. Funding is provided to federal departments having a direct or indirect search and rescue mandate to develop search and rescue response capability throughout the country.

Federal departments having a search and rescue mandate include the R.C.M.P., the Department of National Defence, the Canadian Coast Guard, Atmospheric and Environment Services and the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs.

Any vessel purchased under this program would be owned by the sponsoring federal agency and could not be turned over for other community uses. Therefore, Sanikiluaq's request could not be accommodated by this program. Emergency Preparedness Canada administers the Joint Emergency Preparedness Program commonly called J.E.P.P. J.E.P.P. is a cost sharing program between the federal government, the provinces and the territories to enhance the emergency response capability in every region in Canada.

Municipalities, provincial and territorial government departments may access funding. Although funding is available to acquire equipment, facilities, training, planning and education, it is not available to purchase search and rescue boats. The Department of Economic Development and Tourism, Mr. Speaker, has funding programs which provide for the creation or expansion of businesses through the acquisition of new equipment and infrastructure.

A private commercial venture could put together a business proposal to purchase a boat for commercial fishing, tourism, or freighting and could come to the department for assistance. If the business plan shows there is a market for the boat's services, that a profit can be made, and if the applicant has sufficient equity, the proposal will be considered for assistance.

In

summary, a boat to be used for commercial purposes as well as search and rescue may qualify for departmental assistance, assistance from E.D.A. or, perhaps, from the Canadian Aboriginal Economic Development Program. Interested Sanikiluaq residents should contact the local economic development officer. The Sanikiluaq economic development office has indicated that the community would like assistance in getting a marine surveyor to assess the condition of an older boat which is in the community at the present time. The surveyor would recommend what repairs have to be undertaken. In this instance, Mr. Speaker, the department can assist. We look forward to their proposal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 23-12(3): Update On Request For Boat For Sanikiluaq

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 332

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Pollard . Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 62-12(3): Method Determining Distance Of Daily Polar Bear Travel

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 332

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Ms. Mike on November 23, 1992, regarding the method of determining distance of daily polar bear travel; the longest distance a female polar bear with a radio collar has moved in one day.

Radio collars cannot be put on male polar bears. However, a hunter and a biologist followed the tracks of one male polar bear that had travelled more than 160 kilometres without stopping to sleep or hunt for seals. The bear was followed in April during the mating season when male polar bears travel long distances to search for females.

Information from hunters and movements of radio collared female polar bears indicate that polar bears travel more in the spring and early summer than during the open water season and winter. Thank you. I have another return if I may, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 166-12(3): Water And Sewer Subsidy In Tax-based Municipalities

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 332

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Antoine on December 2, 1992, regarding water and sewer subsidies in tax-based municipalities.

The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is preparing a policy proposal on the distribution of water and sewage services subsidy funding to tax-based municipalities. I expect to submit the policy proposal to Cabinet in January, 1993.

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Return To Written Question 12-12(3): Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 332

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

I have another return, if I may, to a question posed by Mr. Gargan on December 2, 1992, regarding the status of the Ingraham Trail "no hunting" corridor.

The following responses are provided regarding the regulation which prohibits individuals from hunting within the corridor along the Ingraham Trail:

1. Eight written warnings have been issued under the Special Management Area (S.M.A.) Regulations,

Section 4, which states that "No person shall discharge a firearm for the purposes of hunting big game within Special Management Area F/1-B during the period commencing November 1 in one year and ending April 30 in the following year." All eight warnings were issued this fall;

2. No charges have been laid under the

summary conviction procedures regulations for offenses under the S.M.A. regulations,

Section 4; and

3. Since no charges have been laid, no one has proceeded to trial.

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Further Return To Question 31-12(3): Effects Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Return To Written Question 12-12(3): Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 332

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

I have one more return, to a question asked by Mr. Pudluk on November 20, 1992 regarding the effect of tranquillizing polar bear meat.

Last April, a study was done out of Resolute Bay to determine when the drug used to tranquillize polar bears is no longer in the bear's body. The study was done on four polar bears.

The Department of Renewable Resources assisted the study, but does not yet have the results. The Department is contacting the researcher, who is from the University of Saskatchewan, to find out when the analysis will be done. Once the study is complete, the Department will discuss the results with hunters from Resolute Bay first and then advise other communities. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 31-12(3): Effects Of Tranquillizing Polar Bear Meat

Return To Written Question 12-12(3): Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 333

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 162-12(3): Reason For B.i.p. Adjustment

Return To Written Question 12-12(3): Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 333

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Lewis on December 2, 1992, regarding the reason for the B.I.P. adjustment.

The subject tender was issued on September 9, 1992. The revised Business Incentive Policy was approved for implementation in June of this year. It extended the application of local preference to tender the purchase of goods. Previously, the local preference was applied only to tenders for construction contract.

The policy, therefore, extended the preference to local firms that supply goods that are intended to be used in the same community in which the supplier is located. Further, the policy provides that two or more communities be considered local when located close to the work site. For example the highways camp is located outside municipal boundaries. Communities in the vicinity of the highways camp can be considered local for the materials destined for that camp.

Since the oil tankers are to be used in and around Hay River, Hay River is defined as the local for the purpose of applying the preference. Application of local preference is therefore consistent with the policy and the decision to waive local preference on a much larger tender to supply and install furniture in the Legislative Assembly building, was a separate and distinct matter, the reason for which I have already indicated to this House.

I must admit, however, that I am as concerned about this issue of local preference as the Member, for our preference policy should end. We should equalize opportunity for all northern business but this particular provision may, in fact, be doing the opposite in some cases.

I have instructed the Senior Management Preference Committee to review this matter and report back to me by the end of January. In the meantime it will be necessary to abide by the provisions of the policy as defined. Exceptions will only be approved by the Senior Management Committee. Thank you.

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Return To Question 162-12(3): Reason For B.i.p. Adjustment

Return To Written Question 12-12(3): Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 333

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 333

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs .

On November 27, the Minister tabled document 18-12(3), Community Transfer Initiative Implementation Plan. The purpose was to represent the government's commitment to recognize and encourage community self-government. The community transfer agreements with interested communities will recognize community authority, identify and designate community responsibilities and transfer resources for program and service delivery. My question to the Minister is, what is the status of the implementation plan?

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Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 333

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 333

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the implementation plan has been tabled and needs to have a minor but critical amendment to it today. I will be tabling an amendment to page eight. I think we left out a critical word in the document. Having said that, the document is made available to the Members. It sets out the way in which we to propose to follow a process of implementation on community transfer initiatives across the territories. We are going to take the approach that only those communities that express an interest will enter into discussions.

Once we have a better idea of the general approach of interested communities and the kinds of resources that would be required to fund the discussions, we enter into discussions with those communities that express an interest. Then we will come back to the Legislature with a supp for money.

It is my hope that Members of the Legislature on the advice from the constituencies, will give us some idea of what they may require for their particular constituencies. That is one of the steps that will have to be taken early in the new year.

I think it is important to point out to Members that while we cannot expect ourselves as Ministers to respond to all 76 communities in the territories we hope to respond to as many as possible. Members should know that because of the number of sittings we have, the opportunity to meet all communities at a time when they are interested is not as flexible as we would like.

We have made contact with all the Gwich'in communities. We have had an initial talk with the community of Tuktoyaktuk. We have an invitation from Sachs Harbour which I hope to go into sometime in January. We are waiting for some definite dates from the Dogrib communities as to when they would like to have some preliminary discussions at a regional or community level. There has been a visit to Cape Dorset which requires some follow-up. We are trying to do that presently. There was an initial meeting in Pond Inlet, again with some follow-up required. In some cases the communities have been specific.

The interest in a number of communities is to work on community justice and to see what they can do to move in that specific area. As for other areas, we are looking at moving on housing, either taking over responsibility for the housing associations or the housing programs themselves.

We are looking at flushing out the complex areas of responsibility that are presently under Social Services. Many communities have expressed an interest to have a discussion without any prejudice to future dealings on what exactly is on the table, what is available for discussion and what information is available. Some communities have asked for very detailed information about specific dollar amounts that are related to the discussions.

For instance, one community wanted to know how much it costs for an inmate to travel to Yellowknife and back and the daily cost of incarceration for an inmate, to have some idea what the figure might be if a proposal were developed for the community to take responsibility for inmates at the community or regional level. That is the status of the community transfer initiatives. We are trying to finish off the ones that were initiated years ago. For instance, in Norman Wells, they have had discussions now for four years about taking over the natural gas system and water and sewage.

We hoped that this would be finalized initially by January. It is now scheduled for March because of some setbacks. We are trying to finish off the ones that we started in earlier years. Thank you.

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Return To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 334

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I would like to remind the Members that if they are going to pose a question that could require a long and detailed answer, they should consider using written questions because a long and detailed answer would take away the opportunity from the other Members to ask their questions. Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 334

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Thank you. I asked the question. I did not expect a long and detailed answer. Mr. Speaker, the Minister stated that communities have been in negotiations or have put in requests. I know of several communities up in the Mackenzie Delta, Fort McPherson and Arctic Red River, for instance, that have submitted proposals to the Minister and his department. What is the Minister doing in terms of dealing with these communities that already have assumed some responsibilities? What action is being done to assist these communities at the present time?

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Supplementary To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 334

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 334

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, in the case of the communities in the Delta, we have not got an official invitation to deal with the community of Inuvik, but we had a request to meet with the chief and council of Inuvik. We had arranged that. The chief was weathered out that day. We had a brief one hour discussion with those people who were available. We gave them a commitment that we would come back on invitation to meet with the chief to begin the discussions at that level again.

We went to Fort McPherson and discussed the approach generally with the chief. We had some discussions for about three hours in the afternoon and another three or four hours in the evening at the public meeting. There, we were asked for specific information. Much of it was in the area of Justice and corrections. We undertook to provide that information. We were aware that the community was developing and was going to forward a proposal to the federal government on a justice project.

We were asked if we could assist the community by doing what we could to make sure that the federal government responded in a reasonable time to the proposal. We said we would do that. We were asked if we could provide some interim money to support the work of the justice committee so that it could hire someone on an interim basis and provide some honorariums for the members who had been working on a volunteer basis for a great many months up until then. We agreed to do that at that time. We have since met that commitment.

We took a comprehensive proposal from the Gwich'in Tribal Council and have had some discussions on possible approaches since then with the Gwich'in.

We had a meeting in Arctic Red River where the community brought to our attention that it had a surplus amount of money that was available to them since we had nothing of substance to transfer, because the community of Arctic Red River has very few committed resources from this government. They asked if, since they already knew that we were going to say that we have no money, we could help them put the surplus to use the way they wanted. We made that commitment. We have worked with them since then, and I think that surplus has been made available for use the way that the community had asked in the first place.

There has been an expression of appreciation from that community for some of the work we have done. We need to come back.

The last I checked with the Gwich'in leadership, they were non-committal, but they know that we are prepared to come back in January or February, whenever time is available, to make sure that the work we started is ongoing. We have indicated to them that we would be inviting those people who should be there, such as officials and M.L.A.s, to be present at that meeting. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 334

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

In fairness, I have asked that the Members consider using written questions for complex questions. I also would ask the Ministers to try to be brief and concise with their responses. What we are trying to achieve is a balance between the questions and the responses, so that other Members and Ministers will have an opportunity to speak during question period. Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 334

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mr. Speaker, in terms of the community transfer initiative implementation plan, this initiative will be an open and cooperative process, co-directed by the government, communities and M.L.A.s. What do you expect from the

M.L.A.s in terms of this plan? Do you expect us to approve it? What input do you expect from us?

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Supplementary To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I invite input from the M.L.A.s on whether or not they want to set a time to discuss this implementation plan, and whether it should be moved into Committee of the Whole or left as a tabled document. I expect that M.L.A.s will be commenting on the document and that communities will, perhaps, be commenting on this document also and getting back to us. If it requires some alteration it will be done. We want to make the communities aware that we are still pushing as much as we can with this priority.

If communities are interested we will be prepared to make a commitment to travel into those communities to get discussions going. All M.L.A.s are encouraged to be part of this and to play whatever role they feel they should play. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Question 188-12(3): Status Of Community Implementation Plan

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question 189-12(3): Renewable Resources Officer Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Renewable Resources . The community of Arctic Red River has been requesting, as a result of the community transfer discussions, a renewable resources officer. Could the Minister inform me if a position has been identified for transfer to that particular community?

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Question 189-12(3): Renewable Resources Officer Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 189-12(3): Renewable Resources Officer Position For Arctic Red River

Question 189-12(3): Renewable Resources Officer Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, no.

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Return To Question 189-12(3): Renewable Resources Officer Position For Arctic Red River

Question 189-12(3): Renewable Resources Officer Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. On the matter of community transfer initiatives, to the acting Minister of Social Services , the community of Arctic Red River has requested that a social worker position be transferred as part of the community initiative project. Has that position been identified for transfer to the community of Arctic Red River?

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Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure to whom the requests were made to but to my knowledge there has been no position identified from Social Services at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

That was a new question. Supplementary to that question, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I ask the Minister of Finance , if any positions that have been requested from the community of Arctic Red River have been identified in the community initiatives, including Economic Development and Tourism, or any positions for the purpose of transfer as a result of community initiative discussions? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

John Pollard

Hay River

No, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Question 190-12(3): Social Worker Position For Arctic Red River

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Gargan .

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Question 191-12(3): D.p.w. Discrimination Against Aboriginal People In Kitikmeot Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Personnel . The Members of this House are aware of my long standing concerns regarding the hiring practices of this government and its commitment to hiring aboriginal people at senior levels notwithstanding the Affirmative Action Policy. We all know that the aboriginal people are not adequately represented at the management level in this government. From discussions with the honourable Member for Kitikmeot , Mr. Bernhardt , I know that these are issues in his region also.

Recently, aboriginal employees of the Department of Public Works in Cambridge Bay have communicated their concerns that they are being discriminated against when promotions are made within the department, in favour of non-aboriginal employees who are not better qualified.

Mr. Speaker, is the Minister aware of these serious concerns of aboriginal employees of the Department of Public Works in the Kitikmeot region regarding the department's apparent unequal treatment of aboriginal employees?

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Question 191-12(3): D.p.w. Discrimination Against Aboriginal People In Kitikmeot Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 191-12(3): D.p.w. Discrimination Against Aboriginal People In Kitikmeot Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 335

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, there is a group of aboriginal employees in the Kitikmeot region who have a complaint laid before the Human Rights Commission. The complaint is that they have been discriminated against on the basis of race by the Government of the Northwest Territories. The complaint is not going to be dealt with by the Department of Personnel or by this government but by the Human Rights Commission.

Having said this, we are taking steps to address this for ourselves. We sent the Assistant Deputy Minister, Darryl Bohnet, into the Kitikmeot, yesterday, to tell us on what the situation and circumstances are with these employees, if there is any cause for concern on our part, if there is anything we can do and if there are any findings which should be brought to my attention as a Minister. These are serious allegations and there have been complaints raised by certain employees and the M.L.A. for Kitikmeot, Mr. Bernhardt , over the last year or so. I felt that some effort should be made to send someone from senior management in there to assess the situation on a preliminary basis. Thank you.

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Return To Question 191-12(3): D.p.w. Discrimination Against Aboriginal People In Kitikmeot Region

Question 191-12(3): D.p.w. Discrimination Against Aboriginal People In Kitikmeot Region

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral Questions. Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . The Department of Economic Development and Tourism initiated the use of southern stone for carvers a number of years ago. There is some concern from fine arts galleries that the stone brought in from the south is not marketable. I would like to know whether the department will reinitiate stone quarrying in the north en masse for carvers in the communities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the Members know, there was some concern about the asbestos content of some of the stone in the Northwest Territories. While that was being examined stone was brought in from the south. We are interested in quarrying stone in the Northwest Territories and to that end, in Coppermine, there will be some quarrying this year, Mr. Speaker. So we are bringing that program back, yes.

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Return To Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Arngna'naaq .

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Supplementary To Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

Silas Arngna'naaq

Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to know when the department plans to continue with other communities.

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Supplementary To Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, we have been responding upon request. If there are requests from communities, then we respond. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Question 192-12(3): Reinitiate Stone Quarrying In The North

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions. Mr. Whitford .

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Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice . Mr. Speaker, during the 11th Assembly, my first question was directed to the then Minister of Justice in the House, in relationship to the Task Force on Justices of the Peace, a subject that was dear to my heart then and still is. I think, Mr. Speaker, that it is only fitting that I return to the issue I first questioned in the 11th Assembly, Mr. Speaker. It has been four years now since the Task Force on Justices of the Peace completed its report and since the department began implementing those recommendations.

Can the Minister advise this House as to whether the department has carried out an evaluation of these recommendations and how well those changes that they are making are working?

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Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 336

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, with five minutes notice, the Members might appreciate a little difference in the quality of the response that I am able to give to questions. The Member raises the question about the recommendations that were done in 1988 in what they call "The Justice of the Peace Review". I am advised that 12 recommendations were made and I will try to go through them to best I can.

On the first one, in trying to ensure some judicial independence for Justices of the Peace, the Justice of the Peace Act was proclaimed, just on November 2, last month, which ensures that there is some independence in the sense that Justices of the Peace are, I think, now appointed for life. So there are some measures taken to steer towards judicial independence for Justices of the Peace.

There was a recommendation that a Justice of the Peace Review Council be put in place, but it is not completely in place. The council we had included a representative of a Minister and a representative of the public. I guess there was a recent Court of Appeal decision that prevents us from making these appointments. So there is a hiccup in that recommendation, but there is a Justice of the Peace, a Chief Judge of the Supreme Court and a Territorial Court Judge on the council at this time. We do have at least a couple of vacancies.

We had another recommendation that deals with having some work done to ensure that judges could be assigned different levels of responsibility. We do have some ongoing work to make sure that judges get training, which is touched on in another area of the recommendations.

There was a recommendation on recruitments, appointments and the involvement of communities. That has been done.

We had another recommendation that said Justices of the Peace should be under the supervision of the territorial Court, and that recommendation has been done.

We had another one dealing with the discipline and removal of Justices of the Peace. The Chief Judge has that power under the Justices of the Peace Act to discipline and remove Justices of the Peace.

Another recommendation. You see, with a little bit of notice, it is good.

---Laughter

There were some recommendations on a training program for Justices of the Peace. We have had an intensive training program for the last two years. Fifty five of the J.P.s are now trained at a trial level. We have 35 who are now trained at the sentencing level and 50 who are still at the basic level.

Another recommendation was that Justices of the Peace, as much as possible, should speak the aboriginal language of the community and the people they deal with. We should report that 40 per cent of the Justices of the Peace presently speak an aboriginal language and we have training under way in the aboriginal languages. So there is some movement. We have translations for documents that J.P.s ask for in the aboriginal languages. We try to help with interpreters and translations of other documents that they wish.

There was another recommendation on facilities and infrastructure that should be available for J.P. court. We are still working on it but not many use the same court spots as the territorial court circuits that come and visit. What else have we got here?

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Return To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi . Excuse me, Mr. Kakfwi , I think I have brought to the attention of the House now on a number of occasions that according to the guidelines which have been circulated to all Members, a question must not require a lengthy and detailed answer, and when answering a question, a Minister must be brief. Now, the problem here is that two questions have taken up half of question period which is not fair to ordinary Members and it is not fair to other Ministers. So I will say that you have replied to the question and I will say, Oral Questions. Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford .

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Supplementary To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this has been a week of learning for me and I think the question I asked was whether or not an evaluation had been carried out to see how well these changes were working. That is the question I wanted to know. I have another question. The question was, had an evaluation been done to see how well they are working?

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Further Return To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I think what I will offer to do is give the Member a written

summary of the action taken to date on the recommendations; the ones that I feel have been completed, those that we are having difficulties with, if any, and those that are still not complete. Perhaps I can sit with the Member if he wishes to decide how the work done to date should be assessed. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford .

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Supplementary To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In all of the recommendations that have been made in the pilot task force, the Minister has recited quite a number of recommendations, but the one that I have not heard is the recommendation on the honorariums and the payments that were made or going to be made to the Justices of the Peace for long and dedicated work. Can the Minister tell me why there has been no move to increase payments for Justices of the Peace in four years since this report has been tabled?

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Supplementary To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, on this recommendation, I know that there is a proposal presently being made to increase the honorarium fees and hourly rates. We have yet to respond to that. There is a proposal presently before us which needs to be acted on. As to why it has taken this long, I am unable to answer the Member.

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Further Return To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. This is your last supplementary, Mr. Whitford .

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Supplementary To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Minister for those remarks, but I would like to know when this important recommendation is going to be undertaken. Can he tell me when he will target it for?

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Supplementary To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure which way it would operate, whether I would have to get approval for an actual dollar amount before I could implement the rates that I would approve or whether I would approve the rates and then go after the money and hope I would get it. If I knew I could get the money, I would approve the rates very quickly. Either way, I think I could make a commitment to work on this and make sure there is a resolution to this recommendation in the next few months. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Question 193-12(3): Recommendations Of Task Force On Justices Of The Peace

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 337

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Government Services and Public Works . In 1986, a decision was made by the Cabinet of the day to restrict the transportation of material goods and have communities supplied by one company. This was done to ensure that the community resupply programs throughout the western Arctic were maintained. Since that time, the economic situation of the Northwest Territories has developed to the point where there

are other companies capable of providing this essential service. Would the Minister tell me what steps his department has taken to re-examine this decision in light of the changing economic and business situations in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

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Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have instructed my department to look at that policy. I know that the Town Council of Fort Simpson has raised the issue with us. There are other businesses in that area that are interested in supplying materials on the river system. We are going to look at the policy to see if it is outdated. Thank you.

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Return To Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .

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Supplementary To Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a supplementary. Is the Minister prepared to advise the Cabinet that general conditions should be changed to allow other interested companies the opportunity to bid on a contract for community resupply, particularly in the western Arctic? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once I see the policy and understand all the issues surrounding it, then I will make a decision and advise the Cabinet accordingly. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Question 194-12(3): Re-examination Of Community Resupply Program

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Whitford .

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Question 195-12(3): Location Of Premier

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Normally, the Premier advises the House as to ministerial travel, who is away and where they are. I would like to direct this question to the Government House Leader. I would like to find out where our Premier is.

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Question 195-12(3): Location Of Premier

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 195-12(3): Location Of Premier

Question 195-12(3): Location Of Premier

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, it was an oversight on my part and I apologize to the House. Madame Premier is in Fort Smith at a luncheon with the Member for Thebacha . They will be returning at 2:30 p.m. I was told, Mr. Speaker. My apologies to the House.

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Return To Question 195-12(3): Location Of Premier

Question 195-12(3): Location Of Premier

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources . I have a letter that was sent out in the Yukon with regard to activities relating to trappers. I would like to ask the Minister if he has, at any time, communicated with the previous Minister of Renewable Resources and with the Yukon on the joint effort of addressing the matter of trap replacement?

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Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Not only did I discuss with the previous Minister, Mr. Webster, the need to combat the animal rights movement with regard to furbearers' trapping, we also discussed at the national meeting of Wildlife Ministers how we should implement the trapping exchange program. Thank you.

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Return To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could I ask the Minister of Renewable Resources if he is aware that the Government of Yukon will be introducing their new laws for trapping next October 1, 1993?

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Supplementary To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

No, Mr. Speaker, I was not aware of that. I would like to thank the Member for that information. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Supplementary, Mr. Nerysoo .

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Supplementary To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be tabling the letter to all trappers that was sent out in the Yukon, for the information of the Members of the House. Could I ask the Minister if he could contact the Yukon government to see if he could coordinate the matter of trap replacement with it so that it will accommodate those trappers both in the Yukon and in the Northwest Territories who harvest resources in both jurisdictions?

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Supplementary To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 338

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Question 196-12(3): Communication With Yukon Re Trap Replacement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 339

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, Oral Questions. Item 6, Written Questions. Item 7, Returns to Written Questions. Mr. Clerk.

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Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 339

Clerk Of The House

Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, I have a Return to Written Question 12-12(3), asked by Mr. Gargan to the Minister of Renewable Resources , concerning the status of the Ingraham Trail "No Hunting" Corridor.

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Return To Written Question 12-12(3): Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 339

Clerk Of The House

Mr. David Hamilton

The following responses are provided regarding the regulation which prohibits individuals from hunting within the corridor along the Ingraham Trail:

1. Eight written warnings have been issued under the Special Management Area (S.M.A.) Regulations,

Section 4, which states that "No person shall discharge a firearm for the purposes of hunting big game within Special Management Area F/1-b during the period commencing November 1 in one year and ending April 30 in the following year." All eight warnings were issued this fall;

2. No charges have been laid under the

summary conviction procedures regulations for offenses under the S.M.A. regulations,

Section 4; and

3. Since no charges have been laid, no one has proceeded to trial.

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Return To Written Question 12-12(3): Status Of The Ingraham Trail "no Hunting" Corridor

Item 7: Returns To Written Questions

Page 339

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 8, Replies to Opening Address. Item 9, Petitions. Item 10, Reports of Standing and Special Committees. Mr. Dent .

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Committee Report 5-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 3

Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 339

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, I have a report from the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. This is the third interim report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. During the two months since our last report, we have concentrated our efforts on gathering information. We held our first regional consultation, spending a week listening to peoples' concerns and suggestions in the Keewatin. We have started our major research project with the front line worker telephone survey now under way. This report outlines our activities and summarizes the issues raised with us by the people of the Keewatin. The last

section includes recommendations which are based on what we have heard.

Our activities thus far, Mr. Speaker, include the front line worker survey, and telephone calls to workers across the N.W.T. which are now being made as we survey staff in front line roles in social services, alcohol and drug projects and community health. In this first round of interviews we are focusing our questions on workers' needs and job stresses as well as their perceptions of community issues. Committee Members spent the week of November 9 to 13, 1992, meeting with people in the Keewatin. The Members visited three communities, one in each constituency as selected by the local M.L.A.

A great deal of planning went into ensuring that we offered a variety of opportunities for people to talk with us. Public and private meetings were arranged and two popular education workshops were organized.

We began the week in Rankin Inlet on Monday with meetings with both the health board and the Chamber of Commerce. On Tuesday three Members participated in an all day consultation with the elders' committee. Two others sat in on the first day of our regional workshop on alcohol issues involving representatives from the alcohol and drug programs in communities which were not on our itinerary. That evening we held a well attended public meeting, where we heard presentations from both individuals and community groups.

Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday I flew to Baker Lake and Fred Koe and John Ningark went to Repulse Bay. Co-Chair Richard Nerysoo and Ludy Pudluk stayed behind in Rankin Inlet to continue with the alcohol workshop and to meet with the Keewatin Regional Council. On Thursday, those in Rankin Inlet hosted a youth workshop, wrapping up their meetings on Friday with staff from the health centre and the Department of Social Services.

In Repulse Bay meetings were held with the social assistance committee, the health committees, health centre staff, the community education council, the hamlet council and senior students from Tusarvik School. On Thursday night over 36 people took time away from celebrating the success of the Nunavut ratification vote and, braving the room's stifling heat, shared their concerns and ideas at our public meeting.

In Baker Lake, meetings were held with the health committee, the inter-agency group and with local elders. On Thursday night a public meeting was held in conjunction with the local M.L.A. Over 100 people attended. On Friday morning I participated in the opening ceremonies of a regional youth conference.

Mr. Speaker, throughout our trip to the Keewatin we heard from a broad cross

section of people: consumers, service providers, politicians and others. They all freely shared their concerns and ideas about their needs and various aspects of the delivery of health and social services. Some took advantage of the presence of M.L.A.s to speak on other issues as well. People spoke of the need for political leaders to be positive role models. Others wanted assurance that M.L.A.s would take action on the concerns raised by the public.

Mr. Speaker, I quote a front line worker, "We are hoping that the work of your committee does not end up with the rest of the work we have done, somewhere in the recommendations, which are ignored or put on the back burner indefinitely." Mr. Speaker, this

section provides an overview of what we heard. We have organized the input, where possible, according to the target group that they primarily apply to: elders; children and youth; alcohol and drug abuse.

In almost every workshop and public meeting held in the Keewatin we were told of the importance of elders in the communities. As a link to the past, elders represent the heart and sole of the culture. They are looked upon with great respect and can be a great resource to others in their communities. Elders and others reminded us about the contribution they can make by passing on their traditional skills to young people. Some saw elders as a part of community efforts to help families and young people in crises. Interested elders could work with trained counsellors, each learning skills from the other.

Such collaboration would make the help offered more relevant and effective to those in need of healing. Speakers expressed concern that not enough is done for elders. An example given was there are not enough volunteers to assist elders with daily tasks, such as shopping, snow shovelling or filling in government forms. People also spoke of the difficulties elders have in getting around their communities. Some suggested the need for home care services to help elders live independently as long as possible.

Many people expressed anxiety over the lack of residential facilities for the elderly in the region. The lack of interpreters and distance from families and friends led to communication and isolation problems for elders sent outside the region for treatment. These difficulties added weight to the call for the development of appropriate health care facilities within the region so that elders could be treated more effectively and closer to home. Mr. Speaker, I quote the Mayor of Rankin Inlet, Paul Kaludjak, "We would like our elders to remain in our community.

Sometimes they require professional help that the family cannot provide. This creates family separation, unnecessary loneliness and confusion, as a result of moving away for care. This situation does not show respect to the elders and is very pitiful and unnecessary."

Mr. Speaker, people also raised the issue of the need for more timely medical intervention. Some speakers told us of sick elders being sent home from the nursing station with an incorrect diagnosis. When a correct diagnosis was later made, often it was too late for a full recovery. Elders complained of not being given preventative medical attention. Many elders also talked about the enormous burden of trying to care for themselves on the pensions which they receive.

Due to high local costs of food and other goods they described their frustration at being unable to care for dependent adult children or to feed visiting grandchildren. With little money and no longer being able to hunt, they told us how difficult it is to provide for themselves let alone other family members in need.

The next section, Mr. Speaker, has to do with children and youth. Through their discussions, committee Members also discovered the importance placed on children and youth throughout the region. While the elders hold the wisdom of the past, the children and youth represent the promise of the future. Unfortunately, many speakers saw the future holding very little promise for many young people. They expressed grave concerns about the difficult issues which confront young people on a daily basis.

A number of speakers identified the lack of jobs in their community as being a major obstacle to the healthy development of young people. Without the possibility of employment they noted that there is little incentive for young people to stay in school. Without a complete education which encompasses areas such as family violence, mental health, nutrition, sexual education, substance abuse and traditional lifestyles, young people see little hope of avoiding a life on social assistance.

Many observers felt that the connection between elders and youth must be strengthened. This must be done not only to ensure that traditions and language survive, but also to help young people to see options other than alcohol and solvent abuse and suicide. Speakers also saw a role for elders to help communities respond appropriately and effectively to young people breaking the law. Participants recommended increasing the resources being put into prevention initiatives such as sex education, including birth control and sexually transmitted diseases, such as H.I.V. or A.I.D.S.

With regard to education about sniffing and alcohol abuse the importance of education and increasing the variety of extra curricular activities was stressed. One speaker expressed her opposition to the fact that abortions and tubal ligations are free but the reversal of tubal ligation for a woman who wanted to have a baby would cost over $4,000.

At our youth workshop held in Rankin Inlet we heard from young people that they were bored. They say the lack of interesting activities and facilities are a contributing factor in many of their problems. With little hope of employment and nothing outside of school to keep them occupied, some youths talked about the difficulty of staying away from drugs and alcohol.

There was also a great deal of discussion on the issue of family violence and child abuse. The young speakers were concerned about the impact on the children and youth of today as well as the possible long-term ramifications for the entire community if treatment is not available now for victims. There were calls from some participants that family violence and child abuse must be brought into the open if the problem is to be dealt with properly.

Mr. Speaker, I quote Martha Grey, who appeared in front of us in Baker Lake. She said, "Let us talk about it now. Let us not be shy anymore. It will work out better if we talk about it now. It can be a very heavy project so let us start opening up." Again, there was talk of the need for proper facilities and programs for the region. For example, the available family violence shelter beds are not enough to meet the current demands. People also expressed concern over the lack of counselling available for men who are violent.

Mr. Speaker, the next

section of our report deals with what we heard regarding alcohol and drugs. On the theme of alcohol and drugs, the speaker felt that political leaders should be positive role models. They felt that there should be increased regional and community involvement in planning and delivering programs. A number of people describe sniffing or solvent abuse as a problem in their communities.

There was a general call by participants at our regional addictions workshop that Inuit treatment models and a regional treatment centre must be developed. Together, these steps were seen as an important step in improving the effectiveness of treatment for people in the Keewatin.

Currently, all treatment beds are outside the region. A regional centre would enable clients to get help much closer to home cutting travel costs and facilitating after care.

Workshop participants were concerned about the lack of resources. They emphasized the need for more money to improve programs and wages. They called for the better utilization of resources and for providing increased personal and professional support for care givers.

The next

section of our report deals with what we heard regarding social assistance. Throughout the Keewatin we heard concerns related to the various aspects of the Social Assistance Program. Many recipients described the great difficulties of trying to survive on the limited amount money that they received. All called for increased social assistance rates. Recipients shared their feelings of low self-confidence and self-worth. Many talked about the hopelessness of getting off the system.

There were comments made about the need to provide money for hunting expenses and not to take away people's earnings from carving or sewing. Speakers told us that clothing allowances were not enough to buy adequate winter clothing, others expressed confusion over social assistance payment options including supplier written cheques and priced monthly payments. The need for more flexibility and recovering costs associated with people's special needs was often raised.

Mr. Speaker, we heard a lot about care givers' concerns. Front line workers shared openly the challenges they experience as they serve their clients. In combination they add up to a reduced capacity to help at a time of increased demand. Many workers talked about their frustration at the lack of communication between themselves and staff from other agencies, departments or with their own senior management. They shared with us the stress that they experience due to the amount and kind of demand that their jobs entailed. They spoke of the personal toll that working in this area takes on them.

They asked for more support and training to reduce burnout and high staff turnover. They spoke of being unable to respond to clients' needs because of lack of money or time or because of policy limitations. Many talked about feeling chronically short staffed. When co-workers leave their vacant positions are often unfilled for long periods of time. This adds to the already gruelling work load for those who remain. Such vacancies lead to demands on the remaining pool of front line workers to deal with situations which are completely outside their mandate and training.

One example involves nursing station staff being called out to respond to a domestic situation involving alcohol because there were no R.C.M.P. officers stationed in the community and the by-law officer only worked days. As members of the public start to deal with personal issues such as family violence, addictions and or sexual abuse, they look for help to heal. This results in an increased demand which, in combination with the overload faced by front line workers, negatively affects the quality of service received.

Speakers specifically called for nurses' benefits to be improved and for more good housing in order to provide incentive for nurses to stay longer. Some suggested the creation of pharmaceutical technician and clerical administration physicians to free up more nursing hours for the benefit of patients. People also wanted more social services workers.

Mr. Speaker, the special committee also heard from a number of people who called for the development of the comprehensive child care system. They told us that making a day care or other child care services available in the community would have many benefits. It would create child care jobs and enable single parents to either continue their education or seek employment. The availability of organized child care would also lesson the burden on family members, such as elders and teenagers, currently pressed into servicing that role. We heard that many young women missed a considerable amount of school babysitting younger siblings.

Keewatin residents said that they wanted to see more education and prevention programs. People felt that most problems could be reduced or prevented through community based and developed prevention programs. In health some said that this could be accomplished by letting C.H.R.s concentrate on the prevention work they are trained for or by hiring full-time public health nurses.

As mentioned earlier, we were told that prevention should be more of a priority in responding to many different social issues. Many services already have some element of prevention. Taking children into foster care at least temporarily prevents further harm coming to them at home. A crises line volunteer listening to a suicidal person could help them choose life. What people wanted was more help available to people before they were in a major crisis. They wanted people to be able to find help sooner rather than later.

One example centred around the issue of family violence. People spoke passionately about the need for counselling for all family members, victims and offenders. To rid families and communities of this painful and costly problem means working with everyone effectively. Offenders need to learn non-violent ways of dealing with their feelings and explore how they learned to be violent. Women and children need support as they try to heal from their pain. Everyone needs to heal.

Respite care was also presented as a preventative service. People caring for family members with special needs asked for occasional breaks from those responsibilities. They wanted a free morning to buy groceries or a weekend off now and then. Such breaks would enable them to continue to provide care and prevent the need to place the family member in an institution.

Improving the quality and number of housing units was also seen as a preventative measure, reducing the stresses of overcrowding or eliminating the health risks associated with such conditions.

Mr. Speaker, we have a number of recommendations from our trip to the Keewatin region. The things the people of Keewatin told us they wanted were the basics. They said that they needed to warmly clothe and house their loved ones, to keep themselves and their families and to provide some support and care for those with special needs. They wanted jobs or some help in carrying on with their carving or hunting. What follows are the recommendations that emerged from what people shared with us. As we reviewed our notes, meeting transcripts and the written presentation submitted, certain compelling issues emerged.

Some of these are reflected below in the recommendations. As this was our first regional confrontation, we will wait for more information from our research or from our later consultations before drafting recommendations on other issues.

First of all, we must talk and work together. We heard many different and sometimes conflicting views as to how people's needs could best be met. This is not particularly surprising given the cross-section of people we met with, each with his own perspective on what was wrong and how it could be fixed. It points to the need for widespread participation in stating their personal and community needs, brainstorming solutions and determining local priorities. Such a process will be the key to coming up with a shared vision and plan from the more scattered views held now.

This participation must be more than consultation, more than asking for people's input while hanging on tightly to the power to make the final decisions. The process must be a collaborative one if it is truly to live up to our northern tradition of seeking consensus. In particular, specific steps must be taken to ensure that the people with the most at stake, those who consume and deliver the services, are invited to be active participants throughout the process. To best understand needs and consider how best to address them, needs the pooled expertise of such a partnership.

The long-term impact of any intervention requires it.

People who use health and social services and those who work in those services must be active partners with the public and politicians in planning, delivering and evaluating such services. They must, therefore, be partners in the process of transferring control of services to communities.

The second recommendation concerns the amalgamation of health and social services. Mr. Speaker, often when we met with staff from either of these two departments, someone would ask us for information about the upcoming merger of the two departments. The staff look to us for answers. They had heard nothing official from anyone to counteract the rumours or to allay their fears of what might happen to them, their clients or their co-workers. Coupled with the ongoing stresses involved in working with people, the resulting uncertainty contributes to staff burnout and turnover. This is something all of us pay for, especially those who are most vulnerable, the clients.

Those people in charge of this process do not appear to be sharing this information with anyone, in spite of their own rhetoric. Reshaping northern government says that the implementation plan includes consulting with, and I quote, "affected staff on page 5." Based on what we heard in the Keewatin, this has not yet happened, nor has there been any announcement of how or when it might. All of this is rather frightening, given that the implementation timetable calls for amalgamation effective April 1, 1993.

Mr. Speaker, the department staff have valuable ideas on how things can be improved. Their insight comes from their daily experiences with the current system, seeing first hand what works and what does not. Many have shared those ideas with Members of our committee. They told us about being both optimistic and fearful of the amalgamation. Fear was expressed that one department would take over the other or that the move would not necessarily result in cooperation among various programs. On the other hand, they were optimistic about the prospect of being able to offer more holistic services to consumers, ones that help them meet more of their health and social needs.

The government projects that amalgamation will result in, "improved coordination and efficiency in responding to the user-driven needs." Their expectations of this departmental union are very high, yet they have not even started to talk to the people who will be the ones making it work. How can a government hope that this rushed arranged marriage will succeed with the wedding day fast approaching, when neither partner has yet been introduced to the other.

The government is also silent on how it is going to determine user or consumer needs. In outlining its approach to this task of reshaping government, it does not specifically list consumers of services among those to be consulted. Despite this apparent oversight it still sees an amalgamated department better serving the needs of consumers. How it plans to do this successfully without talking to either staff or consumers is, quite frankly, a puzzle.

The special committee, therefore, recommends that the government start working together with health and social services staff and clients to hear and make use of their respective ideas in any integration or amalgamation of the two departments. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Nerysoo will conclude this report.

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Committee Report 5-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 3

Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 342

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Committee Report 5-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 3

Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 342

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Perhaps the most frequent concern voiced to us was about some aspects of the Social Assistance Program. Most stated that the money they got was not enough. The shortfall was acutely felt by those recipients who did not hunt. This is not surprising. As we pointed out in our last report, the social assistance food allowance is only enough to pay about 60 per cent of the cost of buying a nutritious supply of food for families in the Northwest Territories.

We reaffirm our call for a major overhaul of the way financial assistance is provided to the Northwest Territories residents. While these long-term fundamental changes are being considered, specific adjustments still need to be made immediately. Action is needed to respond to people's concerns about not being able to meet their family's basic needs. People need to be able to provide enough good food for their families, and they can be helped to do this in a number of ways.

The key is a flexible approach geared to a client's situation, one of providing more money to buy food or to purchase supplies or gas to go out on the land to harvest it.

People need to be able to properly clothe their families. Speakers made it clear that the current clothing allowances are not enough to buy suitable clothing at local prices. Our climate demands that people be properly clothed.

People need to be encouraged to earn money. The current earned income exemption provision appears to have the opposite effect. Clients told us that they did not see any point in earning money beyond the exemption amount as it only reduced their social assistance benefits by the same amount. To avoid the penalty, some risk prosecution by lying about their earnings. Many people seem to be confused about what percentage of their earnings from carvings or from handicrafts they needed to claim. This aspect of the Social Assistance Program needs to be structured so that the client is better off if he works. The client should always keep at least some portion of every dollar earned.

Programs need to be more understandable to those who seek help. We came across clients who thought they were not eligible for certain benefits or payment options. We checked and found they were eligible. The complexity of the program and the work load of the workers combine to limit chances to clarify such misunderstandings. One such example is the provision of seasonal clothing for children whose parents receive social assistance and who move to another community to continue school. The child is deleted from the parents' social assistance budget because he or she is not living at home. The Department of Education pays for the student's room and board but not the student's clothing needs.

If the student is at least 16, she can apply or he can apply for her own or his own social assistance. If he or she qualifies, he or she becomes eligible for a seasonal clothing allowance after three months on a pro-rated basis of a certain amount monthly. So what does the student do if it is November? Can he or she wait three months to get a warm coat? I doubt very much if she can, or he can.

From what we heard, the Social Assistance Program is complex and confusing to clients. Ways must be found for clients to thread their way successfully through the maze and get the help that they need.

One other aspect, the Social Assistance Manual, from our experience, should be in the language, in this particular case in the Nunavut area, in Inuktitut. With access to support and counselling, there needs to be more access to help people trying to cope with those things that make their lives difficult if not unbearable and unlivable.

On the matter of respite care, people need some relief from their responsibilities of caring for relatives with special needs. Some parents of mentally handicapped adults or children wanted to be able to turn over the care giver job to a home care or a day care worker.

Others talked of wanting a group home or a long-term care facility for temporary or permanent placement of their family member with special needs. The committee recommends that the government review the proposed respite care policy developed by the Northwest Territories Council for Disabled Persons and move to implement it.

On the matter of the community council, people need to be able to seek help for personal and family crises within their own community. Those with whom we spoke pointed out the costs of failing to meet this need in terms of continued family breakdown and violence and suicide. Flying therapists in or flying clients out for intense week long sessions is expensive and benefits only a few, due to the costs involved. Services need to be available within a community. People need ongoing support as they try to heal themselves and their families.

As many pointed out to us, elders and other care giving community members can play an effective role in helping people heal. There are those who focus on the use of local para-professionals, with support and training from skilled regional specialists, have been used in the Northwest Territories to offer this support. What is needed to ensure success is the staff and the financial resources to ensure that the helpers are adequately trained and supported in their work. If they are to continue to be helpful, those who listen to people and share their pain, must in turn have someone who supports and listens to them.

The committee, therefore, urges the government to look into a pilot project involving provision of para-professional counselling at the community level. The project must include the provision of ongoing training and support to community care givers to ensure maximum benefits. An evaluation component needs to be built in to ensure that assessments can be made as to the success of the initiative.

In this report we have presented the major concerns of those whom we met in the Keewatin. We have recommended action for those concerns which seem particularly compelling. Some refer to shifting to more inclusive approaches to assessing needs planning and delivering services that involve staff and consumers. These are shifts that we see as necessary if we are to be effective in responding to the needs of the people of the Northwest Territories.

Other recommendations call for immediate policy changes or expansion of programs to make them more responsive to the needs of the people of the Northwest Territories. In order to achieve our committee's overall goals, much more information needs to be gathered for our committee's database. It will come from our remaining regional consultations and research projects. This additional information will support and expand on what we have heard and recommended, as well as giving rise to other recommendations.

Our next regional consultation will occur from January 25 to 29, 1993, in the communities in Nahendeh, Deh Cho and in Hay River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Committee Report 5-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 3

Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 343

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Nerysoo .

Motion To Move Committee Report 5-12(3) To Committee Of The Whole

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Committee Report 5-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 3

Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 343

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the third interim report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services. Therefore, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife, Frame Lake, that the third interim report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services be received by the Assembly and moved into the Committee of the Whole for consideration.

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Committee Report 5-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 3

Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 343

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The motion is in order. To the motion.

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Committee Report 5-12(3): Special Committee On Health And Social Services, Interim Report No. 3

Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees