Debates of Feb. 6th, 2009

This is page numbers 2011 - 2060 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was cabinet .

Topics

Oral Questions

Members Present

Prayer

Minister’s Statement 8-16(3): Achievements Of The 16th Legislative Assembly

Minister’s Statement 9-16(3): Avalon Ventures Ltd.

Minister’s Statement 10-16(3): Registered Disability Savings Plan Exemption

Income Support Programs

Need For Improved Highway Rescue Services

Opportunities Fund Loan To Discovery Air Inc.

Health Care Issues In The Sahtu

Ethical Issues Facing Government

Tpa Drug Treatment For Strokes

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Condolences To Family Of Susan Lafferty

Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Use Of Tpa Stroke Treatment At Stanton Hospital

Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Tabled Document 12-16(3): Northwest Territories Law Foundation Annual Report

Tabled Document 13-16(3): February 6, 2009, Yellowknifer

Article Titled “premier, Cabinet Face Confidence Vote”

Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Recorded Vote

Revocation Of Appointments Of The Premier And Executive Council Defeated

Motion To Extend Sitting Hours Carried

Recorded Vote

Orders of the Day

The House met at 10:07 a.m.

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---Prayer

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Prayer

Prayer

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Good morning, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Minister’s Statement 8-16(3): Achievements Of The 16th Legislative Assembly

Ministers’ Statements

Floyd Roland

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier in this Assembly we came together as Members to establish our vision, goals, and priorities. Members agreed we would not simply work for the status quo. Rather we would work collaboratively to achieve real progress for the Territory. Since then our government has used the vision and goals and priorities of the 16th Assembly

to formulate our plans and actions.

Unlike the typical stovepipe approach to the way we worked in the past, Strategic Initiatives Committees have been formed to direct investments into the priority areas identified by Members. These committees involve a cross-section of Ministers and deputy ministers to benefit from the various departmental and personal perspectives they offer.

We have taken the unprecedented step of inviting Regular Members to participate on all of those committees. So far, Members have all expressed an interest in the new Refocusing Government committee, with two Regular Members currently participating in the work on issues like board reform and program reviews. We have established a committee to specifically address small community issues attended by two Ministers and small community Members. We are finalizing the terms of reference for a plan of change committee,

again with participation from Regular Members and Ministers.

Much attention has been focused lately on the displeasure of Members with the record of this government. I believe the people of the Northwest Territories expect all Members to work together and I believe that most people in the NWT have not lost faith in their government.

We cannot move forward as a government and as a Territory if we are constantly threatened with removal from office. Yes, Cabinet should be held accountable, but if the threat of removal is held over a Minister’s head every time we come together for session, it cannot be long before paralysis creeps in bringing our collective efforts to a grinding halt. Our Territory, the people we represent, and we ourselves deserve better.

When we talk about accountability of government we must be clear what we are talking about. I believe accountability should be measured by results and it’s hard to achieve results when we are working against each other.

We started with a conservative fiscal approach in our first budget, getting control of the growth in our spending. Some reductions were necessary to begin to achieve this. Yesterday Mr. Miltenberger delivered another good budget, appropriate for our time.

Our budget process is testament to the collaborative work of Members and Cabinet. Our first budget passed unanimously and so far comments on this most recent budget have been positive. This government believes that infrastructure is the cornerstone of the future success of our Territory. If we want to see roads to resources then we have to have the visionary approach to support it.

Yes, we have committed to the Deh Cho Bridge Project, an initiative of the previous Assembly. The partnership approach to this project supports the development of capacity and the economy in our small communities. It’s exactly the type of project our economy needs right now, just like other infrastructure projects in our other communities around the NWT; the road to source 77 Tuktoyaktuk, water treatment plant upgrades in

Aklavik, tank farm upgrades in Deline and Fort Good Hope, the Adult Supported Living Facility in Hay River, school board replacements in Fort Simpson, runway extensions in Tulita and Fort Good Hope.

Changes to the Supplementary Health Benefits Program may have been rolled out prematurely, but we have promised to review the changes, consult with stakeholders and the public, and bring back a better revision to the program.

The lending of money from the Opportunities Fund is a necessary step in these economic times. Governments in other jurisdictions are supporting their businesses in similar ways and our government should be no different. The talk is generated by businesses that are an important source of revenue for the GNWT. Hundreds of jobs in communities are supported by this loan. We look forward to Members’ input on the future use of dollars from this fund.

When I look back on this Assembly so far I don’t see disappointment. I see progress. I see many good things happening that this government has already achieved with the collaboration of Regular Members. Going forward it is the type of progress we should all focus on as Members. A few examples:

We were one of the first jurisdictions to conclude an agreement with Canada under the Building Canada Plan for infrastructure projects in the NWT.

We’ve made changes to the capital planning process that will improve how the GNWT plans, acquires, and delivers its infrastructure projects, and developed a strategy to reduce our infrastructure maintenance deficit.

We’ve made significant progress with Indian and Northern Affairs Canada and aboriginal governments on the NWT Water Strategy.

We have introduced a new Species at Risk Act, currently in the public consultation phase.

We continue with the implementation of the New Deal for NWT community governments.

We’ve established the Alternative Energy Program to encourage community governments, businesses, and NWT residents to implement alternative energy solutions like solar hot water heating, photovoltaic technologies, wind turbines, and ground-source heat pumps.

Some of our own capital projects, like the North Slave Correctional Facility, Chief Jimmy Bruneau School, K’alemi Dene School, and St. Joseph School, are using wood pellet boilers.

We’ve signed an MOU with NWT diamond mines to increase efforts to get more NWT residents working at the mines and bring more mine workers to live in the NWT.

We’ve established a new policy and program for support for entrepreneurs and economic development.

We continue to move ahead with the full implementation of the framework for consultations with aboriginal governments and organizations.

We’re moving closer to realizing the Mackenzie Gas Project.

And we’ve submitted a proposal to Canada to bring resolution to the devolution file on our terms.

On the ground, in our communities, we’re doing things that make a difference in the lives of our residents.

We’ve reached an agreement with the Yellowknife Association of Concerned Citizens for Seniors for the construction and operation of a Territorial Dementia Centre.

We’ve introduced ice-spraying technology to speed the opening of ice roads in the Beaufort-Delta resulting in opening for the Dempster Highway Peel River crossing and Arctic Red River crossing approximately three weeks earlier than usual.

We’ve partnered with Canada to upgrade water treatment and sewage projects in Fort Smith, Hay River, and Fort Simpson under the Canada-NWT Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund.

We’ve successfully implemented the Affordable Housing Initiative, with more than 450 units built to date, with more units to build during the 2009-2010 construction year.

We’ve received greater than our per capita share of new federal housing investments, evidenced by recent federal announcements of a second $50 million investment in NWT housing, and our share of the $1 billion fund for public housing renovations.

We’ve increased investment in the quality of our housing stock through investments in CARE and renovations to public housing.

We’ve opened victim services offices in Aklavik, Paulatuk, Behchoko, Gameti, and Whati, with a new Sachs Harbour outreach position in Inuvik.

We’ve re-opened the Sachs Harbour RCMP detachment. Officers have been hired to police Gametì and Wrigley from nearby communities while infrastructure is being put in place.

We’ve taken innovative approaches to our fuel purchase and transportation requirements that allow us to reduce fuel costs in our communities, as Mr. Miltenberger announced yesterday in the budget.

I believe it is too easy to send the wrong message to ourselves, to our constituents, and to the rest of the country. Not everything we do will find favour with everyone, but it is incumbent on us as elected representatives of our residents to determine the best course forward for the Territory.

There are good times ahead for our Territory, despite the current economic turmoil. All Members need to re-commit to the initial spirit of collaboration we expressed at the start of this Assembly to achieve the best for our residents.

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Minister’s Statement 8-16(3): Achievements Of The 16th Legislative Assembly

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Minister’s Statement 9-16(3): Avalon Ventures Ltd.

Ministers’ Statements

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, rare earth elements are being increasingly sought for their importance in the development of green technologies.

It is rare earth elements such as dysprosium that allow electric motors to remain lightweight and small, yet deliver the efficiency and power required for modern vehicles.

Europium is used in

florescent lighting which cuts energy use by 75 percent compared to incandescent lighting. Terbium is used in energy efficient fluorescent lamps. Yttrium is used in almost every vehicle on the road. Yttrium-based materials improve the fuel efficiency of engines.

Despite continued challenges for the mineral exploration industry, Avalon Ventures Ltd. continues to be diligent in advancing their Thor Lake Project in the NWT, a rare earth element deposit located 110 kilometers south east of Yellowknife.

For the NWT, the importance of this project cannot be overemphasized.

Rare earth elements

represent another

market for

products from our

resource-rich Territory. It is one that we anticipate will grow significantly in coming years, particularly in light of statements by U.S. President Obama that he would like to see U.S. manufacturers focus on developing more efficient cars

that cause less

pollution and will contribute to

U.S. efforts to

reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Avalon’s ongoing presence in the NWT, along with similar exploration and development activities in

our Territory, is an indicator that our region is recognized as a source

for these

rare and

important resources.

The development of rare earth elements in the NWT will provide us with yet another opportunity to maximize the benefits from our Territory's resource development and to promote growth in our economy. Ultimately, the advancement of world-class deposits such as Avalon's Thor Lake Project will mean jobs for our people and the potential for new, exciting and diversified industries.

Yesterday, Mr. Bill Mercer, vice-president with Avalon Ventures Ltd., joined members of this government in celebrating the launching the Mine Training Society’s Surface Diamond Driller Helper Training Program in which Avalon Ventures is an important partner.

This is the first time that the exploration industry has partnered in a Mine Training Society project. It is another example of our government’s priority to invest in partnerships for the future and to maximize opportunities by investing in education and skill development.

More importantly, it is a testament to the commitment of Avalon Ventures to our Territory and to the potential that exists for our communities, our people and our economic future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister’s Statement 9-16(3): Avalon Ventures Ltd.

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister of Justice , Mr. Lafferty .

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Minister’s Statement 10-16(3): Registered Disability Savings Plan Exemption

Ministers’ Statements

Monfwi

Jackson Lafferty

Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, this winter the federal government implemented a savings plan to assist persons with disabilities and their families.

The Registered Disability Savings Plan, or RDSP, is a tax-free investment to financially support persons with disabilities. For every dollar invested into an RDSP, the federal government also provides a contribution in the form of grants or bonds, which are based on the beneficiaries’ annual household income.

When withdrawing RDSPs, beneficiaries will receive a combination of the accumulated contributions, grants, bonds and income. Upon withdrawal, beneficiaries will only be taxed on the grant, bond and income.

Withdrawals from RDSPs will not affect federal income-tested benefits and credits, such as the Canada Child Tax Benefit, the Goods and Services Tax Credit and Old Age Security benefits.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to confirm today that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment will fully exempt both the RDSP asset and RDSP withdrawals from consideration in the assessment process for all ECE income security programs.

The Government of the Northwest Territories supports the federal government’s plan for persons with disabilities. This program supports our vision to give NWT residents the opportunity to become self-reliant as individual capacity allows, to participate fully in community life, and to share in opportunities available to them in their communities. Mahsi.

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Minister’s Statement 10-16(3): Registered Disability Savings Plan Exemption

Ministers’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Income Support Programs

Members’ Statements

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A society is measured by the way it treats its most vulnerable in its society from the elderly, the disabled, the homeless, the widows and the people who are living in poverty in our small communities. Mr. Speaker, a lot of programs and services totally undermine the fundamental basics of society that really cares. Mr.

Speaker, without communities, policing, nursing, the fundamental services of mental health workers, alcohol and drug workers, income support systems that totally exclude people from the fundamental basis of having someone live with you, elders who are basically not able to access fuel subsidies to heat their homes where they have to use their pensions…(inaudible)…excluded them because they had outstanding arrears with government some 15 years ago.

Mr. Speaker, a government that undermines the fundamental basics of protecting the vulnerable in our society clearly shows that the government does not care. Various Members of this Assembly passed a motion several times unanimously to change the income support system and make it fair and accessible to all people in the Northwest Territories. What we have seen, Mr. Speaker, is the opposite of this government going full speed ahead doing whatever it wants, telling everybody where there are deadlines, April 1st or before

September 1st , seniors health supp is going to be

implemented. I am sorry; you can have all the consternation in the world, but that tells me that they are going to continue to go full speed ahead and undermine the people of the Northwest

Territories with the attitude of this government. Thank you.

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Income Support Programs

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Need For Improved Highway Rescue Services

Members’ Statements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

...(inaudible)...the village of Fort Simpson and the Fort Simpson Fire Department have told me that they need a highway rescue vehicle to respond to emergencies of travelers on highways. They need a highway rescue vehicle because it includes specialized equipment to cut and safely extract people from their vehicles after an accident. The closest vehicle with this type of lifesaving equipment is only 400 kilometres away in Hay River. We also need a highway rescue vehicle because now, when there is an emergency on the highway, the village is left without an ambulance sometimes for the greater part of the day to look after its own emergencies.

Health and Social Services and Municipal and Community Affairs are supposed to be working on a plan including highway rescue services. I haven’t seen results from that work and I haven’t seen anything in the budget. I would like to hear from the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs on this important matter. Mahsi cho.

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Need For Improved Highway Rescue Services

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Opportunities Fund Loan To Discovery Air Inc.

Members’ Statements

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I was talking about the loan from the Opportunities Fund to Discovery Air. I just wanted to stand up in the House today and make a short statement. It wasn’t my intent yesterday to speak of Discovery Air or their shareholders in a negative light. I appreciate and welcome the contribution that Discovery Air provides to the economy in the Northwest Territories and everything they do for our residents.

My big issues yesterday, Mr. Speaker, were with the lack of a process that saw that loan approved, the lack of any meaningful discussion with Regular Members prior to the policy change, that saw the Opportunities Fund go from a passive investment vehicle to a high risk loan fund, and the fact that both the Minister of ITI and the Minister of Finance showed up for two consecutive meetings without any backup information pertaining to the loan or pertaining to Discovery Air.

Again, my apologies if I have offended anybody at Discovery Air. I do think that they are doing a wonderful job here in the North and I welcome again the contribution that they provide to our economy. My issue is with the government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Opportunities Fund Loan To Discovery Air Inc.

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The honourable Member for the Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Health Care Issues In The Sahtu

Members’ Statements

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, as I listened yesterday to the territorial government budget address, I was very sad to hear that our region in terms of programs and services hadn’t been mentioned. A case in point: the hydro initiatives. I understand that Lutselk’e and Whati were mentioned but Deline has been working for many years on the mini-hydro project and they see no support on Deline being mentioned in terms of this project.

That is why I am very frustrated with this government in terms of things that are very high for us in the Sahtu region and other areas, the cost of living, energy, infrastructure… I can name so many things that we do not seem to get the attention as other areas are getting millions in terms of improving their standard of living, reducing their cost of living, that our community seems to be overlooked because our infrastructure is not put in place. We have been asking for so many things in our region. Number one, again, to me is the hydro project.

Believe in the people in Deline when they say they have a solution that could work. It may not work for this government or by the board of directors of NTPC and the staff at NTPC, but the people in Deline believe it and I believe in my people. This will help the community. This will help the region. That is where I have issues with this budget here. My people need infrastructure desperately.

I look forward to the details in this budget in terms of what type of health care can my people expect in terms of a regional wellness centre or some sort of hospital. There is no indication from this government that they’re even going to look at it. They have good answers in terms of why we don’t have it right now today but planning for it. But right away we get $15 million for the Territorial Dementia Centre in Yellowknife over the years. My people are sick and tired of jumping on small aircraft with 2010 rules and regulations coming from Transport Canada to come to a larger centre for health care. They want to stay home...

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Health Care Issues In The Sahtu

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Ethical Issues Facing Government

Members’ Statements

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest again this morning as our Finance Minister was on the radio talking about the blind ambition of particularly myself, political ambition to sit on this side of the House. Mr. Speaker, let me tell the people again of the Northwest Territories that I did sit on the other side of the House at one time. I believe it was two governments ago.

In 2000 I sat in this House on the Cabinet side and as a result of some things that occurred, which were highly publicized at the time, this House decided to strike a committee of inquiry which determined that as a result of a tape recording of a statutory officer, that I should resign. I did not put it to a vote on the floor of the House. I did what I thought was the right thing after the findings of that inquiry and I voluntarily resigned. Mr.

Speaker, might I suggest that I then returned to the Regular Members’ side of the House and I continued to do my work, honoured the work, as an honourable Member for my constituents. I was subsequently elected two more times to this Legislature.

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to take this opportunity this morning to read an excerpt of a report that was signed off by Mr. Miltenberger and Mr. Roland at the time of the conclusion of that inquiry, because I think it’s very relevant to the situation we find ourselves in today and why, in my opinion, the Premier should have resigned and done the honourable thing a long time ago. I quote: “It is in the view of the committee, a poor measure of the moral standards of this government and it reflects on all those who are associated with it, be they as elected Members or staff. Mr.

Speaker, the measure of moral conduct is not that which occurs when the world at large may be watching. The measure of moral conduct involves taking the right action even when only those directly involved are privy to the circumstances. Ethical behaviour is not behaviour that is undertaken for demonstration purposes, it is undertaken because it is right.”

Mr. Speaker, that statement was signed off on by this Premier on my lack of a moral compass for tape recording a statutory officer for which I took responsibility and resigned from Cabinet.

Mr. Speaker, this Premier was sleeping with the committee clerk of our committee for six months and did not find it necessary to disclose that to us while she sat through all of our confidential briefings, in camera meetings, and did not think it was necessary on his moral compass to disclose that to us. He is the one who should be resigning, Mr. Speaker, and he should quit trying to blame others for his immoral and unethical behaviour. Thank you.

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Ethical Issues Facing Government

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Tpa Drug Treatment For Strokes

Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, today I’d like to talk about strokes and possible solutions for them for northern residents. Stroke is an injury to the part of the brain. It happens when something goes wrong with the blood flow to the brain. Blood vessels, called arteries, carry blood and nutrients through the body. One way the brain may be injured is when an artery of the brain becomes blocked and the blood supply is cut off. Without a supply of blood, the brain does not get the oxygen and nutrients it definitely needs. The patient will suffer permanent brain damage if blood supply is cut off for more than a few hours.

One treatment that can be offered to patients within a couple of hours within the onset of a stroke is called TPA, which means Recombinant Tissue Plasminogen Activator. TPA, in short, Mr. Speaker, is a clot buster. This clot buster is used to break up the clot that is causing the blockage and destruction in the flow of blood to the brain and the blood flow to the area of the brain that has caused problems. This is given through intravenous. In order to determine whether the TPA treatment can be offered, a CT scan of the brain must be done as quickly as possible.

This is to find out if this is that type of stroke that TPA can help. If bleeding into the brain has caused the stroke, TPA can increase the bleeding into to the brain. If this is the case, TPA cannot be used for the treatment; it will cause more harm than good. A blood test may also be taken if there is a bleeding condition. If the CT scan shows no bleeding in the brain, then the clot-dissolving drug, TPA, can be used as a long and positive solution to meet their needs. TPA treatment has risks.

There is a chance if the bleeding into the brain happens after TPA is given it may cause the patient’s stroke symptoms to be worse and could even result in death. However, the death rate is the same, Mr. Speaker, with or without TPA. There is a greater chance of recovery if this drug TPA is used in the treatment of people with strokes.

Mr. Speaker, the best chance for a full recovery of stroke caused by blocked arteries is the use of TPA. I encourage Stanton Hospital to consider this type of treatment for strokes.

Mr. Speaker, I will have questions later today for the Minister about making sure that the TPA drug, the clot busting drug for strokes, becomes one of the tools that helps to save Northerners.

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Tpa Drug Treatment For Strokes

Members’ Statements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to recognize a constituent of the Great Slave riding, Mr. Christopher Dahlberg and his wife, Kimesha. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to recognize Chuck and Muriel Tolley up at the back there, constituents of Yellowknife Centre. I believe I see Jenna Jones. There she is; she’s waving there. It’s a pleasure to have visitors from Yellowknife Centre here. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Member for Yellowknife South , Mr. Bob McLeod .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob McLeod

Yellowknife South

I’d like to recognize Mr. Bill Mercer, vice-president, exploration, Avalon Ventures Limited and Mr. David Connelly with Ile Royale Enterprises, which is Avalon Ventures’ local representative. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to recognize Mr. James Boylan, who I can’t see up behind me but I know he’s there. If there are any other constituents of Frame Lake, welcome to the Assembly. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to take this opportunity to recognize Annemieka Mulders and Lorraine Phaneuf from the Status of Women Council of the NWT, and, sorry, Heidi-Ann Wild from the Public Service Alliance of Canada. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to recognize Loretta and Dick Abernethy and suggest they get an award to paying the most attention to this House.

---Laughter

I’d like to recognize Blake Rasmussen, another constituent from Weledeh. As well, David Connolly, I’d like to recognize him. I believe he’s here with colleagues from Avalon Ventures. Thank you.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley . The honourable Member for Monfwi , Mr. Lafferty .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Jackson Lafferty

Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to recognize Harriette Paul, originally from Behchoko and the Tlicho announcer on CBC. Mahsi.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to recognize a few folks from the UNW: Gayla Wick and Ms. Barb Wyness. I see Norm Smith up there as well. Again, I wanted to thank them for all their work they’ve been doing on the supplementary health benefits petition. As well, I’ve got a constituent up there on the camera, Mr. Amos Scott. Welcome.

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Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . If we missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to the House. I hope you’re enjoying the proceedings. Item 6, acknowledgements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Acknowledgement 2-16(3): Condolences To Family Of Susan Lafferty

Acknowledgements

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to send condolences to the family of Ms. Susan Lafferty. Ms. Susan Lafferty was a long-time resident and educator in Fort Simpson who will be greatly missed. My condolences to her family and I regret that I am not available to be part of her funeral today. Mahsi cho.

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Acknowledgement 2-16(3): Condolences To Family Of Susan Lafferty

Acknowledgements

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the lead Minister on the Energy Coordinating Committee as to his...My apologies, Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Finance on the budget address in terms of...I don’t know if it was

done by accident or mistake as to why the Deline mini-hydro wasn’t mentioned as to why the hydro stuff that we talked about in previous government such as Lutselk’e and Whati. Why wasn’t the mini-hydro for Deline mentioned in terms of continued support from this government?

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister of Finance , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, the fund, $60 million over four years, we mentioned some of the highlights. I’ve had discussions with the Member about the interest of Deline in terms of mini-hydro and the work that’s been done to look at the Bear and the list, as we move forward on mini-hydro over the coming months and years, we want to look at mini-hydro wherever there are possibilities. We also have some good indication, for example, from Good Hope and the Ramparts. That budget address was not exhaustive in its reflection of all the projects and areas where funding is going to be spent.

There is going to be, I believe, plenty of opportunity in the coming weeks as we flesh out the detail and move forward, once the budget is approved, to capture more of the areas that need attention.

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the communities of Lutselk’e and Whati have also been in the same situation as Deline. Again, I ask the Minister this specific project that’s been on the books for a long, long time with this government in terms of continued support, why was it not mentioned in the budget as the two other projects that have been ongoing with this government in terms of the funding? That’s what upsets me and upsets the people in Deline in terms of this mini-project. Why was it not mentioned?

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, the intent was to reference our commitment as a government as a Legislature to alternate energy in the mini-hydro and other alternate uses of energy. We’ve identified Whati and Lutselk’e as communities that there is work that is quite a ways along. We recognize that there are others on the list to come, including Deline and the arrangements that could be made. I talked to the Member about Tulita. So the first focus in the budget reference was some of the ones that were further along in terms of the planning. Thank you.

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Minister is correct that we had talked somewhat on some of the other initiatives that we could go ahead with in the Sahtu region. The Deline mini-hydro project concept; it was my understanding, Mr. Speaker, it has been on the books for 16 years. Again, in terms of the work that’s been done there and discussion that the Minister made reference to in terms of the Fort Good Hope ramparts or in the

Tulita area, it just has been known for a year or two and the Deline mini-hydro project has been on the books for a long, long time. For them to see that they’re not getting anywhere and want again to see from this government is that there’s going to be some solid commitment that better be considered like they mentioned in the books -- Lutselk’e and Whati -- and that is not something that they could think about later. I’d like to see that from this government here.

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the Member’s interest and concern. As I’ve indicated, this fund is a brand new fund. Should the budget pass, then we would be in the position to lay out the work plan. The hope is that it’s going to extend past four years. We want to get things on the ground that are far enough along in the planning as we move forward in consultation with communities and with committees and if you look at the next phase of the business planning process, there will be an opportunity to address this plan to reflect all the priorities of this Assembly.

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I look forward to when this government, through the lead Ministers, can go into Deline, sit down with them, prove that this commitment is something that they’re committed to do by sitting down with them and making this project a go. There’s going to be lots of discussions there. I look forward to when can this government direct your staff to go into Deline and sit down and sign off on the progress to the Dene mini-hydro project. Right now, for them there’s nothing mentioned on this. Again, that’s one of my disappointments on hearing the budget yesterday. This mini-hydro project has not been mentioned and shame on the government for the oversight.

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

Thebacha

Michael Miltenberger

Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, once this budget is passed, we will be in a position to look at how we’re going to move forward. We’ve identified in the budget address some examples. It wasn’t a comprehensive detailing of every expenditure in the main estimates. We also recognize that what Deline is proposing is by many standards new technology that’s being developed and in some cases not necessarily proven out for the rigors of use in the North in the river of the size being proposed.

There is a clear interest on the part of the government to look at all the small communities. I said that in the budget address. There are alternatives to fossil fuels in every community. We have to start the process recognizing that we cannot do everything at once, recognizing that we have committed to getting to all the communities with the different types of alternative energy,

starting first with the passing of this first-time-ever major commitment to alternative energy. Thank you.

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Question 70-16(3): Funding For Mini-Hydro Projects

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 71-16(3): Use Of Tpa Stroke Treatment At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I have a family in the constituency of Yellowknife Centre and one of them had a stroke. When they got to the hospital they did not have the clot busting drug called TPA. It’s been a little more than a year later and they’re doing much better, but the fact is my research recently has shown that there is no clot busting drug for strokes called TPA being used at present at the Stanton Hospital.

I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services , will she investigate this to see if this type of drug could be used and brought into the common day-to-day use for any type of stroke victim at Stanton Hospital? As well, look at a strategy of perhaps when she could do that and return that to me as soon as possible. Thank you.

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Question 71-16(3): Use Of Tpa Stroke Treatment At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Ms. Lee .

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Question 71-16(3): Use Of Tpa Stroke Treatment At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Member for the question but my understanding, Mr. Speaker, is that this TPA treatment requires the electronic radiology system where the message and imaging has to be sent south for observation and evaluation before the medication could be given and that medication has to be given within three hours of stroke onset. Also, we have had a chronic shortage of radiologists and we only have visiting neurologists. That’s one of the reasons why Stanton cannot, at the moment, have that service available. Thank you.

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Question 71-16(3): Use Of Tpa Stroke Treatment At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the Minister’s answer but that still doesn’t mean we couldn’t have this drug sitting on the shelf so that when things do line up and we do have a visiting radiologist or we have all the staff and all the equipment working at that time, that this could not be the option that that family may be depending on. Would the Minister look at a strategy to make sure that that drug is available when we do have all our stars lined up in the context of staff there who can do the job and whatnot?. Mr. Speaker, it’s very important. Would she look at that? Thank you.

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Question 71-16(3): Use Of Tpa Stroke Treatment At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, I do agree with the Member that this is something that we should

look to see whether we could have it available at Stanton. I could advise the Member, Mr. Speaker, that in the upcoming budget there are some investments on what’s called PACS, short for Picture Archiving and Communication System, and when they consent to investment in that, that allows transfer and exchange of picture images from different facilities. I think having that system in place will allow us to seriously look at having this type of treatment available. Thank you.

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Question 71-16(3): Use Of Tpa Stroke Treatment At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, can I get some time frames on when we can get some of these dates on. I’ll tell you, the reason I keep pointing at the TPA as a solution is because it seems to be the proven solution that works well and although alternatives are being presented and that will be good news for folks, not than anyone plans a stroke, but certainly in the context of if one happens people know the tools are there. I just want to make sure that we have some sense that this stuff is available and when. Thank you.

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Question 71-16(3): Use Of Tpa Stroke Treatment At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

Range Lake

Sandy Lee

Minister of Health and Social Services

I will undertake to get back to the Member as to what time frame we will be looking at and what resources and commitments we would need to set up that system at Stanton, as well as the time frame for the rolling out of the PACS system.

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Question 71-16(3): Use Of Tpa Stroke Treatment At Stanton Hospital

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I just want to follow up on my Member’s statement and ask the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs about the plan to assist communities in acquiring highway rescue vehicles. What state is that and how much work has been done to date?

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs , Mr. Robert McLeod .

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There was a report done a few years ago that recommended that this be looked into. It’s something that the departments of MACA and Health and Social Services have identified as a priority. Money is available in the budget that we will be hopefully debating on the floor of this House to enhance some of the programming to the communities.

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Has there been support from some of the committees that the government has established to look at this issue and to carry

forward? Like I said in my Member’s statement, Fort Simpson has many highways and it is a regional centre. I certainly support getting them a highway rescue vehicle.

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

There is support of communities out there and their support from all levels involved. It’s just a matter of identifying. Also there’s the communities themselves who have their capital money flowed from MACA that they could use for mobile equipment. Also there’s some federal funding that can be accessed. MACA is committed to going into the communities and helping them work out a plan to see what pots of funding they can access.

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Just at what point will the department be initiating contact and speaking with the Village of Fort Simpson in terms of coming up with a plan and a strategy to address this lack of equipment?

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

The department will probably be in contact with the village very soon. It is a priority and I’m sure with the Member raising the issue that we need to expedite this. But I have informed the Member that through correspondence MACA will be in contact with the community to get this moving forward.

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche .

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. As well, it looks like there’s got to be some federal involvement here. At what point would we be involved in the federal department to assist or what program would that be then?

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

Robert C. McLeod

Inuvik Twin Lakes

The involvement of the federal government would be on the funding that they have available for this particular highway. It’s called the Joint Emergency Preparedness Program and that is the program that they will be able to access some funding under. When MACA meets with the community they will be able to relay that information on to them and make them aware of all the potential pots of money that they can access.

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Question 72-16(3): Highway Rescue Equipment And Services

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

I have a couple of questions for the Minister of Finance . As part of the budget yesterday...I’ll back up. Some months ago this Assembly passed a motion from Regular Members which stated that a milk subsidy should be incorporated into the activities of this government. It’s well known that milk is an extremely healthful

food and an excellent part of a preventative diet for children in particular.

I’d like to ask the Minister of Finance , since there was no mention of the milk subsidy in the budget address yesterday, whether or not a milk subsidy for children from zero to age 12, for instance, will be included in the activities in our 2009-2010 finances.

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Premier , Mr. Roland .

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The motion that was passed by the Assembly was looked at. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment along with the FMB reviewed the numbers and looked at that and looked at what options were available throughout our existing structure that we have in place, for example, our Income Support Program, and that was the avenue that was chosen to do any work that would cover off the basics for those who need most. As well, we tried to focus on other initiatives to bring the cost of living down in our smaller communities.

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

I appreciate the answer. It doesn’t really go to the point of the motion passed by the Members on this side of the House. I believe that the government is trying to reduce the cost of living, but I think that one of the ways that it’s going to be done is to try to provide commercial power subsidy and that is intended to reduce the cost of living for goods and services. I guess I would need to ask the Minister or the Premier when we can expect to see this kind of reduction in the cost of living in concrete actual programs, when it’s going to be on the ground and in effect such that it’s going to affect the cost of living for food for residents in our communities.

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

I wouldn’t want to put words in the Finance Minister ’s mouth on this matter, but my understanding as we work through this, as the Member has stated, that a commercial subsidy is being reviewed. They are prepared to go to committee on what structure they’ll put in place to see how that would be passed on to try to ensure it would be passed on to the people who live in our communities through that structure. I don’t have a timeline. I will have the Minister of Finance prepare a response for the Member.

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

That’s, unfortunately, the answer that I was expecting. Our communities need assistance now. We need a program that can be put in place sooner rather than later. I feel that yes, I’m appreciative we’re going to be consulted on this particular program of a power subsidy, if that’s what it is, but that’s going to take months. Literally months. Probably a year at least before it’s in place. A milk subsidy is a targeted program and it

is one that I think can actually be put in place within a matter of a short few months and probably could be in place for the first of April at the beginning of this next fiscal year. I would like to ask the Minister whether or not this government puts a priority on assisting our residents in their communities and, if so, why this milk subsidy was not considered as a project that could be put in place in a very short period of time.

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

There is ongoing work around our subsidy programs that deals with families in need across the Territories. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment has an ongoing review of their program and the cost of living in our communities and look at making adjustments throughout the year. As for the commercial subsidy issue of when that timing will come forward, as I stated, I’ll have the Minister of FMBS and Finance come up with a response and provide that to committee. There is ongoing work on our subsidy programs that we have in place that helps offset the cost of living today in communities.

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro .

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess I need to ask the Minister what this government is going to have in place as of April 1st , 2009, that is

going to be of benefit to the people in our communities to reduce their food costs.

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

Inuvik Boot Lake

Floyd Roland

Premier

The first fundamental program we have in place for families in need would be through our Income Security Program. That food basket is looked at and reviewed by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment throughout the year. I don’t have the timing of exactly when that next review and adjustments will happen, but that budget is adjusted, they do review on the cost of living of our communities and adjust on that basis.

For the commercial subsidy piece and how that goes out, as I’ve committed, the Minister of Finance and FMBS will respond to the Member on that issue.

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Question 73-16(3): Proposed Milk Subsidy Program

Oral Questions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland . Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, replies to the budget address, day two of seven. Item 12, petitions. Item 13, reports of standing and special committees. Item 14, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 15, tabling of documents. The honourable Minister of Justice , Mr. Lafferty .

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Tabled Document 12-16(3): Northwest Territories Law Foundation Annual Report

Tabling of Documents

Monfwi

Jackson Lafferty

Minister of Justice

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document entitled Northwest Territories Foundation Annual Report for the Fiscal Year Ending June 30, 2008.

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Tabled Document 12-16(3): Northwest Territories Law Foundation Annual Report

Tabling of Documents

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Tabled Document 13-16(3): February 6, 2009, Yellowknifer

Article Titled “premier, Cabinet Face Confidence Vote”

Tabling of Documents

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

I’d like to table page 12 of February 6, 2009, Yellowknifer specifically highlighting a quote from Premier Floyd Roland saying, “ Premier Floyd Roland said the motion is a personal attack. Their shadow Cabinet must now be thinking they are ready to take over real roles.”

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Tabled Document 13-16(3): February 6, 2009, Yellowknifer

Article Titled “premier, Cabinet Face Confidence Vote”

Tabling of Documents

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . Item 16, notices of motion. Item 17, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 18, motions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS the Minister of Health and Social Services had proposed to implement a new Supplementary Health Benefits Program on April 1, 2009, and has now proposed to defer the implementation of that program until September 1, 2009;

AND

WHEREAS many northern seniors depend on the coverage for dental, vision, drugs and supplies for which they are eligible under the existing Extended Health Benefits Program;

AND

WHEREAS many northern seniors live on fixed incomes, which do not allow them to absorb increased costs for drugs and other health care costs;

AND

WHEREAS many northern families live with significant chronic diseases or chronic conditions and are prescribed expensive medications and supplies to manage those conditions;

AND

WHEREAS there are many low-income Northerners who are not covered by an employer’s Supplementary Health Benefits Program and not eligible for coverage under the existing Extended Health Benefits Program;

AND

WHEREAS the new Supplementary Health Benefits Program would have limited the coverage for some residents who are currently covered;

AND

WHEREAS the new Supplementary Health Benefits Program would have created disenfranchised groups amongst NWT residents, contravening the principle of fair health coverage for all;

AND

WHEREAS the performance of the existing program administration should be reviewed and evaluated;

AND

WHEREAS the new implementation date of September 1, 2009, does not allow adequate time to conduct comprehensive research, engage stakeholders in meaningful consultation, develop a new program based on input from these stakeholders and comprehensive research and analysis, share the proposed program with the stakeholders for final consideration and approval, and implement the new program in a timely and responsible manner;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South , that this Legislative Assembly recommends that the Minister of Health and Social Services stop the implementation of the proposed Supplementary Health Benefits Program and develop a new policy and program to cover low-income families who do not have supplementary health benefits coverage through their employer;

AND FURTHER, extend the September 2009 implementation date to April 2010;

AND FURTHER, conduct comprehensive consultations with Northerners about the ways to improve the Supplementary Health Benefits Program and services offered by the department, including whether or not means testing should determine eligibility;

AND FURTHER, ensure that thorough research into the program’s complete costs and full implications is undertaken and presented to Northerners including:

1. the cost to the NWT of families moving south;

and

2. increased costs on the health care system

resulting from more people accessing services within hospitals;

AND FURTHERMORE, fully involve the standing committees of the Legislative Assembly in the review of new policy proposals before any implementation is considered.

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Abernethy .

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

Glen Abernethy

Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m making this motion today because I believe that Cabinet and the Minister of Health and Social Services are making a mistake, a mistake that would adversely affect all northern residents, a mistake that will cost this government both directly and indirectly. Fortunately this is a mistake that can be easily remedied.

Let’s go back a bit and talk about why Cabinet and the Minister are going in the direction they are with respect to the Supplementary Health Benefits Program. Low-income families who do not have any medical coverage through their employer don’t currently have access to supplemental health benefits other than coverage for a specified medical condition. This means they’re 100 percent on the hook for all dental costs, all the costs related to purchasing glasses and all the costs related to prescribed medications, excluding medications required for specified medical conditions such as diabetes.

Given that these individuals are low-income earners, they are the individuals who would benefit most from support in this area. To their credit, Cabinet was trying to help these individuals. That’s why their forcing this short-sighted and inadequately researched policy down the throats of Northerners. I agree that we must find a way to help these individuals. I don’t agree that it should be done at the expense of other stakeholders in the NWT.

Within our system of government, Cabinet has the right to design and implement policy, programs and regulations. They aren’t required to request the House approval to do so and aren’t even required to share them if they don’t wish to. Fortunately most programs, policies, and regulation changes won’t adversely affect residents of the NWT and bringing them into the Legislature for approval or debate isn’t always going to be necessary. In fact, it could be considered a waste of time in many situations.

However, from time to time these types of changes can be significant and have major ramifications on

the GNWT and the NWT as a whole. The changes currently in question fall into this category.

When designing or redesigning programs, policies, and regulations that will have major ramifications, Cabinet should demonstrate a standard of care which involves actively engaging Regular Members and other stakeholders who may be affected by the changes. This is a public government and we have a responsibility to listen to and engage our residents in meaningful consultation.

Further, information or facts are required to make responsible decisions. Decisions made in the absence of information or facts are bad decisions. In the case of the changes to the Supplementary Health Benefits Program a significant amount of information or facts are required in order to make a responsible and informed decision. Unfortunately, it’s clear that the Minister and Cabinet did not gather the required information or facts. They don’t have a clue of the ramifications of implementing this new policy. How do I know? I and many other Members have continually asked for the information.

How much do they think they will save by cutting off seniors and individuals with chronic conditions? How much will it cost the NWT when affected residents choose to leave the Northwest Territories? Not just by way of the $22,000 federal transfer payments but also along with the taxes they pay, the money they spend on goods and services, and the non-monetary benefits they provide by way of volunteering. Also, how much will it cost based on the inadequately low threshold levels put forward by Health and Social Services to cover low-income earners without benefits?

Cabinet can’t or won’t answer any of these questions. I don’t believe the analysis was done. How can we feel confident that they have demonstrated a reasonable standard of care or due diligence if they can’t even answer these important questions?

Here’s what should have happened. It’s clear that this government needs to do something to help the low-income families and individuals that have no medical coverage through their employer. The department should have researched this issue, compared cost analysis, defined where problems exist, and what potential challenges may exist in providing this new coverage.

Once collected, the department should have engaged potentially affected stakeholders in meaningful consultation where the information is shared and stakeholders are encouraged to offer recommendations and participate in a process of developing a reasonable program. If the information had been shared and affected stakeholders had been actively engaged, they might be willing to make compromises in the best interest of the program as opposed to being confused, scared, or resistant to the changes due the lack of any real involvement or understanding.

A draft policy should have been developed for consideration and review by the Regular Members and the potentially affected stakeholders. This would have ensured that these individuals had the opportunity to confirm or verify that their points of view had been heard and incorporated. It also would have provided the department with an opportunity to explain the decisions they made that are different from what the stakeholders wanted to see.

Once general agreement or consensus on the new program is reached, the comprehensive communications and the implementation plan would need to be designed and put in place. Adequate time is required to ensure that all affected residents have the time required to be made aware of the program, complete the paperwork or applications where appropriate, and ensure that all their i’s are dotted and t’s are crossed before implementation to ensure no disruption in services.

This is a reasonable process. It’s completely different than what happened. Here’s what did happen. Cabinet decided to update the Supplementary Health Benefits Program to include coverage for low-income earners not covered by employer medical benefits. They told the department that they weren’t willing to spend more than was currently allocated to the programs so they must fund any changes from within. No research or financial analysis was conducted. The department designed the proposed program and took it to potentially affected stakeholders for consultation. Unfortunately it wasn’t really consultation.

It was more of an information session where the stakeholders were told what was going to happen, not asked for input or to make any suggestions.

To be clear, consultation is a process by which the public’s input on matters affecting them is sought. Its main goal is to improve the efficiency, transparency and public involvement in projects, laws and policies. It’s a valuable process when making significant changes to any policy that may or may not adversely affect large groups or, in this case, ultimately all residents of the NWT.

It’s clear that Cabinet and the Minister don’t understand what consultation is. The Minister is adamant that they have conducted consultation. She’s indicated it several times in the press and to Regular Members of this Assembly. I’ve talked to a number of the groups that the Minister claims to have consulted with. All indicate that they weren’t consulted. Rather, they were told what the department was going to do, when they were going to do it and how they were going to do it. They attended information sessions veiled as consultation.

After the department completed the design of the program, the Minister announced that the program was being implemented on April 2, 2009. Here’s where things got interesting. Residents were stunned, shocked and disgusted with this short-sighted program.

Honestly, I’m not even remotely surprised. It’s an incredibly bad program. The program fails to meet the needs of a significant number of Northerners and, by default, adversely affects everybody in the NWT. Further, the threshold levels established for low-income families are so low that people originally targeted for assistance won’t be eligible. To fund it, Cabinet chose to cut off a significant number of seniors and individuals with chronic conditions, who will choose to leave the NWT rather than experience the significant increase in their cost of living.

This will result in a significant loss of revenue for the GNWT. Also, the changes will drive residents into hospitals where medications and services are free as opposed to going through treatment in their homes. This will increase the costs of the NWT health care system, which will adversely affect every resident of the NWT. Our health care system is already too expensive. Can we really afford to make it more expensive? I don’t think so.

Since implementation I have heard from hundreds of people on this issue. Not one person is pleased. The City of Yellowknife passed a motion where city council directed the mayor to write to the Minister of Health and Social Services to express the council’s opposition to the changes to the Supplementary Health Benefits Program and urge her to cancel the implementation of the new program.

Petitions were filed in this House earlier this week with thousands of signatures, signatures of people who are 100 percent opposed to the implementation of the new program.

I got an e-mail from one resident where she indicated the following: “One of the goals of the 16th Assembly is healthy, educated people and one

of the priorities for the goal states: ‘improve support for children and adults with special needs and disabilities’.”

She is a long-time resident with one chronic physical and two chronic medical conditions and has been on CPP disability pension for almost five years. She has supplemented her disability pension with RRSPs, RRIFs and savings. She pays her own dental bills and eye glasses. However, she receives 100 percent coverage for prescription medications for her chronic disabilities through the GNWT.

Now, based on the new program, she will not qualify for any of her prescription medications, as she is single, under 65 years of age, and had a net income of over $25,000 last year. She feels that this new policy does not support this Legislature’s priority of improving support for children and adults with special needs and disabilities. I agree with the resident.

Another resident made the following comment and asked the following questions. This is from the resident: “The questions just seem to come and the answers don’t seem to be there. Anything new can be scary at first and I understand that, but is the territorial government really ready for this? Have they thought it through? Who is going to fall through the cracks or no longer fit the criteria? What are they supposed to do? Who is the program really aimed at? Does something need to be developed separately to assist those who need it instead of changing something so quickly and without consultation?”

People are concerned in the communities and in the Northwest Territories. Given the massive numbers of comments I raised, I can keep quoting these all day. However, for the sake of time, I won’t, but it is important to recognize that many people are very upset. Residents have asked questions and they deserve answers.

It’s clear. After listening to the people of the NWT, it is obvious that there is nothing good or worth salvaging in the program as presented. It’s time to go back to the drawing board.

In a recent press release, the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services indicated that it is clear that some elements of the proposed program might create undue hardship for some residents. This is a bit of an understatement and is evidence that she and Cabinet have not considered the full ramifications including increased costs to the health system and loss of revenues. It’s good that she acknowledges that the proposed program will adversely affect some residents, but does not demonstrate an understanding of the magnitude of the potential problems.

In response to these undue hardships, the Minister has agreed to defer the implementation date of the program. To address the concerns of the public, the Minister indicated in her press release that the program design will be reviewed before the program is implemented. Unfortunately, Cabinet and the Minister are still committed to means testing and continue to demonstrate that, although some minor modification will be included, the policy is pretty much going to move forward as is and be implemented on September 1, 2009. I perceive this direction as more of a delay tactic than actually

trying to do the right thing for the people of the Northwest Territories.

Means testing for health care is wrong and should be avoided at all costs. Cabinet is committed to means testing most, if not all, programs offered by the GNWT. In respect to health care, this is a bad decision; as bad or worse than previous decisions they have made, such as rolling the public housing subsidy program into ECE where it has resulted in huge deficits in the local housing authorities. History has shown that when a bad decision is made, the Cabinet would rather keep the blinders on and request more time. The right thing to do would be to acknowledge the mistake and fix it.

So in this case, a year or two down the road when health care costs go up and our revenues have fallen off directly, they’ll say everything is alright and that their uninformed and short-sighted direction is not to blame. Means testing might work in some program areas, but the provision of supplementary health benefits is not one of them.

Although I’m happy that the Minister has deferred implementation, I don’t see it fixing the real problems. It is no more, as I indicated earlier, than a delay tactic. It’s an attempt to fix a significantly redesigned program on the fly rather than acknowledging poor Cabinet direction and sending it back for a complete review, analysis and suitable design.

September 1, 2009, does not allow the Department of Health and Social Services to follow a reasonable and responsible timeline in order to get the inclusion of services for low-income earners or design a fair and equitable system with public input and consultation.

Let’s break down the timeline. We all know that very little will be done over the next six weeks on this policy due to session, which is going to consume everybody’s time. Immediately after session, many Northerners will be going on spring break. So it’s safe to assume that very little can be done by way of public consultation until the beginning of April. In April they will begin their version of public consultation. You would hope that they have done some financial forecasting and conducted research into the effects of different options and how similar services are provided in other jurisdictions.

However, I’m not optimistic that this will have happened by this time. Real public consultation will take a couple of months. Conceivably, given their timeline, they might have the consultation done by May. So design will have to take place over the summer. Given the number of people who take advantage of summer for holidays, I don’t really believe that it will be given the attention it deserves over the summer months. So summer is over and they implement what they have designed. To implement a program of this

magnitude, you do need a couple of months to communicate the changes and ensure that all affected residents complete the paperwork required to ensure no gap in services. This means that the program should be completed by July 1st at

the earliest. That’s not much time.

No matter how you look at it, a comprehensive review, analysis, consultation, redesign, acceptance and implementation cannot be done in the time given. So it suggests that some steps will be skipped completely or paid no more than lip service. We’re going to get the same program we have now with a few high profile yet not substantive changes. It’s a delay tactic.

If they move forward with the date proposed, the Regular Members of this House won’t have the opportunity to discuss and debate it in this Assembly as it will be implemented prior to the next significant session. Yes, there is a seven day session starting at the end of May, but there is no way that there will be a reasonable product to discuss or debate at that time. It’s hard to believe that they will even have completed any real or thoughtful consultations with potentially affected stakeholders by then.

Our next substantive session will begin around the middle of October, one and a half months after the new program has been implemented. As indicated previously, once Cabinet makes a decision, they don’t go back and reverse it. So we’ll be stuck with a bad program.

The right thing to do is for Cabinet and the Minister to start again. Completely withdraw the proposed program and timelines and start again with the development of a new policy to cover low-income families who do not have supplementary health benefit coverage through their employer, a program where the implementation does not lead to significant loss in services to other groups.

Develop it based on a reasonable and realistic timeline. April 1, 2010, is a date which will allow proper research, consultation, design, debate and ensure adequate time to promote the new program and implement it. It’s the right thing to do.

Prior to the last session, the government released documents on revenue options. Based on the information contained within those documents, it was clear and obvious that one of the best ways to increase our revenues and ensure that this Territory has the financial resources to provide the services to our people is to increase the population. Cabinet stressed that we, as a government and a Territory, need to do things to encourage people to come and live in the NWT and for those that live here to stay. The budget address yesterday suggested the same thing.

Now we are telling many people -- seniors and individuals with chronic conditions -- that we don’t want to do what is required to encourage them to stay. This is a complete reversal from what Cabinet was saying only a few short months ago and doesn’t make any sense. We have people leaving, such as diamond polishers, because they don’t have work. We can’t afford to chase people out who really want to be here in the North -- people who call the Northwest Territories their home; people who have lived here all their lives.

Prior to the mid-1980s seniors and people with chronic conditions didn’t stay in the Northwest Territories. They left. At that time Northerners, seniors and the NWT Council for Persons with Disabilities, championed for change. They made their case and these fantastic supplemental health benefits that we have now were established. Now Cabinet is telling these people that they don’t deserve the levels of support that they currently have; supports that they believed would exist when they were planning for retirement and their futures; programs that made it possible for seniors on fixed incomes and individuals with chronic conditions to stay and live in the Northwest Territories.

It’s time to reject this direction and reapply common sense and good judgment. It’s time to work in the best interest of northern residents. It’s time to do the right thing. This motion encourages Cabinet and the Minister of Health and Social Services to do the right thing. I hope they are listening to us and the public. I hope they choose to do the right thing. Go back to the drawing board. Start again. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy . The honourable Member for Hay River South , Mrs. Groenewegen .

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

I am pleased to second this motion that has been brought forward today by Mr. Abernethy . I appreciate the work that he has put into this issue along with other Members and to his analysis of what has happened. It is so thorough that it is difficult to know what to say and to actually add to it. He has pretty much covered all the bases.

Mr. Speaker, just to summarize and let you know what my concerns are about this change to the Supplementary Health Benefits Policy, I have indicated we did feel for several years as a government that it was necessary to do something to assist those families that were not covered by any other supplementary health benefit insurance and that it was difficult for families if unforeseen illness or medical requirements such as prescriptions or other extraordinary costs were to

come upon them. It could be actually devastating for a family that did not have insurance coverage. So I can remember for as long as I have been a Member of this House, that we thought it was necessary to do something to assist that group of people. Little did I know that when the supplementary health benefits review was taking place it could inadvertently affect seniors in this way.

I believe that we spend an extraordinary amount of time as a government trying to figure out how we can attract people to come live in the North. We have companies that offer incentives for people to move here, to live here, to participate in our communities and yet this action, if played out, would drive seniors out of the North. I have heard those comments made by seniors. I have absolutely no doubt that they are true. It is a matter of fact. The cost of living is probably felt most acutely by those on fixed income. I would say that most seniors are on a fixed income.

I haven’t once heard from this government that this support for seniors is not sustainable but they actually have done the analysis that would indicate what the actual costs are of this program. I just haven’t heard sufficient rationale. Honestly, even if I did hear what the rationale was for it, I would still probably consider that this would be an appropriate expenditure of this government to continue to support seniors in the North with the supplementary health benefits. Yes, it is a good program.

Yes, you can compare it to other jurisdictions and say that maybe it is more than seniors in other jurisdictions receive in some instances, but I think it is still money well spent, well invested. When you look at some of the alternatives and some of the alternative costs, if those seniors do become ill or unable to continue to live healthy, independent lives. I think we need to take a very broad look at this on a cost basis even.

Even if it turned out that there is a net cost to this government, I think that the people of the Northwest Territories, the taxpayers, the people who have other insurance, would support this group of seniors who would be impacted by this. I think it is a fairly small number of people. In a strange way, it targets quite a small group of people.

My experience with talking to seniors, whether we are talking about the rate scale or programs like this, is that seniors are not adverse to paying and contributing in some fashion. That is why I believe that a part of the investigation and analysis should include this government taking the initiative to see if there is any kind of group insurance that the government could cost share premiums. I am thinking of some nominal fee like $25 a month or something. Not every month or every year are seniors over 60, who would be beneficiaries of a

Supplementary Health Benefits Program, in need of eyeglasses or pharmaceutical support. I haven’t specifically heard from seniors about this, but might I suggest that they may not be opposed to some nominal premium which could go some ways towards offsetting those costs. I have heard the same thing from seniors who live in public housing where right now the rate scale says you pay nothing. People who live independently pay everything. I don’t think they expect continued support with no contribution, but that is something that could possibly be investigated. There are insurance programs that are out there…

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Mrs. Groenewegen , you may be steering away from the intent of the motion.

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

Jane Groenewegen

Hay River South

Sorry, Mr. Speaker. Suffice it to say that I do not support the April 1st implementation of this policy. I do not support the September 1st implementation of this policy. I think

that we need to go back to the drawing board and take a very broad look at what the implications would be of changing this seniors’ Supplementary Health Benefits Policy. Even when consultation takes place, I would be very supportive of ensuring that our seniors over 60 in the Northwest Territories continue to have insurance coverage for these items. Thank you.

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen . The honourable Member for Frame Lake , Ms. Bisaro .

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

Wendy Bisaro

Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, I, too, would like to state that the comments from Mr. Abernethy have pretty much covered everything. He has done an excellent job in summarizing comments we have heard from any number of constituents, residents of the Territory, seniors, those who are non-seniors but who also are affected by the change in this program.

At the outset, I want to say that I am in favour of this motion wholeheartedly. As stated in my Member’s statement the other day, I feel that this is poorly thought out, poorly presented and based on a poor policy and this program should not go into effect.

The intention of the policy is to provide coverage for a group of people who currently don’t have it and who are currently left out. That is the lower income end of our workers. Nobody disagrees with that, Mr. Speaker. We need to provide coverage for people who currently don’t have any, but these proposed program changes solve one problem and creates many others. It cannot go ahead as it is now. I appreciate that the Minister said that there will be revisions, but my problem with that is that it is based on an unworkable premise. That is the premise of income testing or means testing. It

creates different levels of coverage amongst our residents. To quote a comment from a resident in an e-mail: “it will cause bad karma between peoples.” I believe that that is already there and it may be get worse.

Canada proudly trumpets our health care system and with good reason. We’ve got one of the best health care systems in the world. We don’t have to worry about our medical costs. Our system provides universal coverage, but this program change that’s being suggested by the territorial government will go against this particular principle and I can’t agree to that. I’d like to quote again from another e-mail that was sent to me by a constituent: “These changes impact a larger group than just seniors. I’m very concerned about the impact of the changes on staff with chronic illnesses and conditions.

Anyone of any age can have a chronic illness or condition and not everyone works for the GNWT with good benefits. Our full-time staff who would be impacted by extraordinary costs for prescriptions and supplies are productive adults who are helping us address the needs of vulnerable people. They make too much to meet the low-income cut-off being suggested, but not enough to pay for the costs themselves. I hope the Minister and the GNWT are not suggesting that affordability means diverting RRSPs for those of us without adequate pension plans or cashing in all of one’s vacation days.”

Those words should be heeded by all of us, Mr. Speaker. The roll-out of this new program was a boondoggle. It was prematurely presented, absent any semblance of good analysis and research. The information available to stakeholders was minimal, confusing and complex to understand. Extended health benefit users, those currently accessing our system, who were unable to adequately understand the program assumed the worst, and often they correctly assumed the worst. Since that time, and since they got some information but not enough information, they’ve been suffering what I think is needless stress and concern.

That’s been happening for a number of weeks; it hasn’t been a number of days, it’s been a number of weeks, Mr. Speaker. I think that it’s needless concern on their part. It didn’t need to happen and it could have been prevented by a better roll-out of this particular program.

Members of this House and stakeholders still lack clear information and proof of the value of this program. Many people who are potentially affected by this program are seriously considering moving out of the Territories. I believe that they are seriously looking at it. It’s not an idle threat. I believe that there will be people who will move out if this program impacts them financially.

Not only does this program need to be revamped, but the policy on which it is based needs to be reviewed. If true consultation is to take place, the Minister and the department must start with a blank page; no preconceived ideas at all. We have to develop a program that satisfied the initial goal, that of coverage for lower income workers, but that does not make others suffer or does not make others give up something to give to the lower end. The government must, as was stated the other day, have a conscience and do the right thing.

Every time I say that I think of Wilfred Brimley and the Quaker ad where he used to say, “It’s the right thing to do.” This is the right thing to do. The actions that are suggested by this motion are the right thing to do.

I’d like to give you another question that came from another e-mail: “What kind of community do we want to live in?” And this question was related directly to the impacts of the Supplementary Health Benefits Program. We would all be wise to think about that and to think about this particular program as suggested and pass this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro . The honourable Member for Weledeh , Mr. Bromley .

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

Bob Bromley

Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was also in support of this motion and I’d like to back up, really, many of the comments that I’ve heard from my colleagues today. There’s little else to add but there certainly is volume. The number of contacts we’ve all received from our constituents has been huge.

On the public consultation front, let me just cite the Yellowknife Seniors’ Society who were shocked and surprised that there were no consultations with the NWT Seniors’ Society or seniors in general prior to the Cabinet making this decision in reference to the 2007 meeting. Alternatives North says presenting the outline of a program that is already planned is not consultation, at best it is publicity. I’ll leave that there.

On income testing, I also agree with my colleagues that this is not the way to go. It moves, as I said the other day, directly away from universality in coverage and I think we need to think about that. The income testing does not reflect ability to pay. I saw no discussion of gender analysis in there. As people know, when you look at incomes by gender there is a difference between men and women. There doesn’t seem to be a separation between single parent families versus couple families.

There are big differences there, both in relative cost and income and depending on the gender of the single parent, that’s even stronger divergence. This all reflects on ability to pay and leads to much of the angst over this. Numerous problems were caused

also by this inability to pay. Bad decisions can be made, shortcuts taken that end up having other health repercussions.

On the drug program, again, we need to commit ourselves to pursuing a policy of purchasing generic drugs. I haven’t seen that discussed but it’s an important opportunity for cost cutting. Bulk purchases and the whole Pharmacare program, many people are aware of that. In 2004 the First Ministers committed to going after that, but we haven’t had a champion. This is an opportunity for this government to become a champion at that and get that back on the national agenda, and enjoy the benefits available.

Again, on the funding issue, Canadians have a strong record of being willing to pay through our tax system for universal health coverage. Fundamentally in a universal plan, everyone knows that if they ever require additional support, it will be there for them. With this understanding, the people have demonstrated a willingness to pay according to their ability, for example, through the taxation system and as my colleague Mrs. Groenewegen has suggested, other means. Where is the discussion on this important concept and ability to tweak the program in an important way?

Mr. Speaker, I don’t think we have seen the good and thorough work that would typically be behind a new policy proposal. That has not been clear at all. Health programs and actions require careful scrutiny prior to, during and after development if they are not to result in potential unexpected and destructive affects which can then negate the desired impacts and this is a good example of that.

The development of this policy has failed to look holistically at the social environments in which people live their lives both in sickness and in health. This gets us similar questions I raised the other day. A constituent submitted a series of questions that could be part of the new process here. If I can just read these because I think they’re quite relevant and the Minister may find them useful. Policy development should answer these questions:

What is the nature of the problem to be

addressed by the policy proposal and what is the magnitude?

What are the sizes of the cohorts targeted to provide solutions?

What is the character of those cohorts? And that means holistically, what are the roles in community and community’s well-being?

What will be the effect of the policy changes on the cohorts?

What will be the effects on government and the public of those effects experienced by the cohorts?

Balancing positive and negative effects, what is the net gain or loss to the situation addressed and what are alternative solutions?

Mr. Speaker, let’s make this review a redevelopment of this policy. Let’s take advantage of the extensive knowledge and experiences and perspectives of all and relax the time

schedule to that which is required. We need a better policy on supplementary health benefits not just a new one. With this clearly in focus we can move forward. That’s my hope and expectation and on that basis I’ll be supporting the motion. Thank you.

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Motion 7-16(3): Supplementary Health Benefits Program Carried

Motions

The Speaker

Paul Delorey

Colleagues, before I go to the next Member, I would like to draw your attention to the visitor’s ga