Debates of May 31st, 2005

This is page numbers 101 - 136 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was going .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

World No Tobacco Day

Learner Success

Northwest Territories Tourism Month

Fairness And Responsiveness Of Government Officials

Preservation Of Aboriginal Languages

Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre From Yellowknife To Hay River

Health Care Services For Elders

Value Of Youth Exchange

Recognition Of Francophone Science Fair

Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Species At Risk Act

Congratulations To Mackenzie Delta Graduates

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Cost Of Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Devolution And Resource Revenue Sharing Negotiations

Drafting Legislation On The Species At Risk Act

Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Market Housing Initiative

Disclosure Of Information About The Territorial Treatment Centre

Statistics On Edap Program

Access To Respite Care

Consideration For Aboriginal Leaders And Territorial Cabinet Meeting

Educational Needs Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Relocation Of Hook Lake Buffalo Herd

Consulting On The Territorial Treatment Centre Education Program

Using Liquor Revenues For Regional Drug And Alcohol Programs

Protection Of Ingraham Trail

Tabled Document 7-15(4): GNWT Contracts Over $5000 Report

Tabled Document 8-15(4): Seizing Opportunities: Vision, Mission And Goals Of Iti

Tabled Document 9-15(4): Written Question 81-15(3) Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Tabled Document 10-15(4): Residential Growth Study

Tabled Document 11-15(4): Conflict Of Interest Commissioner's Annual Report

Extended Adjournment Of The House To October 12, 2005

Bill 2: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 2004-2005

Bill 10:

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell , Mr. Braden , Honourable Charles Dent , Mrs. Groenewegen , Honourable Joe Handley , Mr. Hawkins , Honourable David Krutko , Ms. Lee , Honourable Michael McLeod , Mr. Menicoche , Honourable Michael Miltenberger , Mr. Pokiak , Mr. Ramsay , Honourable Floyd Roland , Mr. Villeneuve , Mr. Yakeleya

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 101

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Good afternoon, colleagues. For the information of Members, the simultaneous

interpretation today will be in the languages of Gwich'in and Inuvialuktun. At this time, item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Minister's Statement 12-15(4): World No Tobacco Day

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 101

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, today is World No Tobacco Day, a day set aside by the World Health Organization in 1988 to bring attention to the enormous global impact of tobacco use. Tobacco causes 10,000 deaths a day worldwide and is expected, in 15 years, to overtake infectious diseases as the world's leading cause of death and disability.

The enormity of this problem has lead to the creation of the framework convention on tobacco control, in the first ever global public health treaty. Canada lead in the development of this treaty and ratified it in May 2005.

Here in the Northwest Territories, we have implemented several tobacco reduction initiatives, guided by Action on Tobacco, our territorial tobacco control strategy.

Today in our visitors' gallery are students and staff of Ecole St. Joseph School and Range Lake North School. These young people are part of the "Don't be a Butthead - Be Smoke Free" campaign, which the department launched in May 2004.

---Applause

This campaign reaches children before they become smokers and strengthens their resolve to remain smoke free for life. The Butthead campaign has travelled to all communities in the NWT and has received enthusiastic support. More than 2,000 youth have made the commitment to remain smoke free.

I congratulate my two colleagues, Mr. Menicoche and Mr. Yakeleya , who made a commitment to quit when they heard about the Butthead campaign. They have been smoke free for more than seven months.

---Applause

I would also like to recognize other Members of this Legislature who have previously quit smoking including Ms. Lee , Mr. Braden and Minister McLeod . You are excellent role models.

---Applause

We applaud the commitment shown by so many young people. By this time next year, I hope that the Members will have joined the growing numbers of legislators across Canada, who have enacted laws to control the devastating impact of tobacco use and advance the goal of de-normalizing tobacco use in our society.

Our youth are counting on you. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 12-15(4): World No Tobacco Day

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 101

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Minister's Statement 13-15(4): Learner Success

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 101

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is an exciting time of year, especially for learners across the Northwest Territories as they graduate from our schools and Aurora College. I have attended several graduation ceremonies in the last few weeks and I would like to congratulate all of our many northern graduates.

Whether they are completing high school or a post-secondary certificate, diploma or degree, seeing successful graduates is a sign of the health of our learning system and a demonstration of the commitment of our students and their families to educational achievement.

I believe we are now seeing the positive results of grade extensions in the smaller communities, implemented in the late 1990s. In regions across the NWT, we are seeing more young people staying in school in their communities and graduating.

In the Sahtu region, an exciting milestone has been reached this year. For the 2004-05 year, there will be graduates from every school in the region. Colville Lake will have its first graduate this year, after having started their high school program just three years ago.

---Applause

The region is also graduating an all-time high of 26 students this year, 10 from Deline alone.

---Applause

I am honoured to be attending that graduation ceremony with the MLA for Sahtu on June 9th. Elders, leaders and families can all share in the success of keeping young people in school and supporting them to graduate.

I would like to profile a few of our successful and innovative programs that will contribute to our growing rate of graduations across the NWT:

• The Lutselk'e Bush School, which combines conventional high school curricula with learning on the land, has proven to be one particularly successful example of new initiatives in the NWT. The school is comprised of a small group of students, one teacher and two elders. All of those involved live in a group of cabins for two-and-a-half months at a time. While at the camp, the students take instruction in high school courses. At the same time, they assist in the day-to-day operations of the camp.

This alternative to standard classroom instruction was developed as another option for those students who had previously not been successful in their secondary education. Though the program is still young, it has already proven effective. This program speaks to the success we can have when we combine education programs with traditional approaches to learning.

Madam Speaker, at the college level, we have also seen a large number of graduates this spring. These individuals have chosen to follow career paths that are essential to the continued success of our territory, ranging from trades to nursing and teaching. Particularly important to success in this area has been partnerships between the college, aboriginal groups and business and industry. These arrangements have allowed many students to make a smooth transition from post-secondary education to employment.

While these are only a small handful of the many successes that we have seen this year, I think that they provide an effective example of the excellent collaboration between schools, the college, parents, communities and students. This work will ensure that graduates are prepared for the future and that the quality of education available in the North continues to improve. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 13-15(4): Learner Success

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 102

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bell .

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Minister's Statement 14-15(4): Northwest Territories Tourism Month

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 102

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, beginning this year, the month of June will be designated as Tourism Month in the Northwest Territories.

---Applause

Tourism Month will celebrate the tourism industry of the Northwest Territories and highlight the importance of this vital sector to our economy. Similarly, the Tourism Industry Association of Canada has designated June as Tourism Month in Canada and national celebrations will be seen across the country.

Tourism dollars are new dollars to the economy and flow into each community through the tourism operators and the various local service providers. In the 2003-04 tourism season, $93 million were spent by over 56,000 visitors to the Northwest Territories. Specifically, summer visitors totalled 27,000 people who spent over $17 million. Over 1,000 hunters contributed approximately 15 million new dollars to the territorial economy. Japanese aurora visitors totalled 10,000 and brought in a total of $12 million. Preliminary numbers for the 2004-05 season indicated $99 million were spent by 63,000 visitors to the Northwest Territories.

Madam Speaker, the creation of the new Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment gives tourism a new profile and our government is committed to enhancing our tourism industry. The Government of the Northwest Territories is committed to working with the tourism industry in product development, researching markets, providing statistics on visitor trends, providing funds for tourism training programs and providing marketing funds to the tourism association for targeted destination marketing initiatives.

Madam Speaker, consultation on proposed changes to the Travel and Tourism Act have been completed. The proposed revisions are designed to streamline the regulatory process and make other housekeeping amendments to the act. The amendments are supported by a majority of stakeholders, including NWT Tourism. I am committed to moving forward on these recommendations this fiscal year.

NWT Tourism, in partnership with Industry, Tourism and Investment, has planned promotional activities to highlight the Northwest Territories as a prime tourism destination. A brochure celebrating tourism in the Northwest Territories will be distributed to households throughout the territory. A poster series, called "Tourism Counts," highlighting various aspects of tourism, will be provided to municipalities, aboriginal organizations and tourism operators.

Madam Speaker, the Japanese continue to show a growing interest in aurora viewing and other NWT tourism products. In July 2005, the Northwest Territories will be showcased in Japan during a weeklong event at Expo 2005 in Aichi Prefecture. The GNWT has formed important Expo 2005 partnerships with tourism operators and interested businesses, to level private sector investment and to develop a broad program of activity to promote the NWT to Japanese and international attendees. The private sector has committed approximately $300,000 towards NWT events at Expo 2005.

Day and evening events through the last week in July will host a broad range of VIP guests and highlight tourism, diamonds and arts and culture of the Northwest Territories.

Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate the tourism operators, outfitters and the many service providers of the Northwest Territories for their dedication to this vital industry. I thank them for a job well done and confirm my commitment to continue to address the challenges and opportunities of this important sector of our economy. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 14-15(4): Northwest Territories Tourism Month

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 103

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe , Mr. Villeneuve .

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Fairness And Responsiveness Of Government Officials

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 103

Robert Villeneuve

Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, at my last constituency meeting in my Tu Nedhe community of Deninu Kue earlier this month, I'm glad to say the meeting went really well and that the 25 to 30 people who attended the constituency meeting raised a lot of concerns. Many of these concerns are ongoing issues related to government programs and delivery of those programs.

Madam Speaker, the majority of concerns raised by my constituents are related to housing and Municipal and Community Affairs and, more specifically, on issues of fairness and responsiveness. The issue of fairness and the delivery of housing programs both at the local and territorial levels has always been met with disregard for both levels of government and leads to growing frustration by my constituents about accountability and transparency principles this government claims to be committed towards delivering to northern residents.

But, Madam Speaker, the more important concern regarding responsiveness is the only one I would like this government to really take notice on, Madam Speaker. On many instances in the past there have been many issues that we thought to be settled between constituents and the various government department officials, be it through the telephone conversation, the one-on-one meetings, letters or just a simple handshake.

Madam Speaker, has the continued lack of response by this government and the feedback suddenly made a simple handshake exactly what it is, just a simple handshake? I hope not, Madam Speaker. Something that has been considered as binding and lawful only a few years ago is suddenly becoming meaningless to many who lived and had faith in this practice of agreement all of their lives while living here in the North. But because of this government's inaction on many important matters, people are beginning to lose trust and confidence in the simple gesture that we all take for granted every day.

Madam Speaker, in

summary I would like to challenge each government department to meeting firm commitments to resolving and carrying through the commitments many past and present Ministers make to my constituents and other northern residents so that the people can retain and react with some level of confidence, pride and trust in our government and its officials when they visit their community, make promises and seal the deal by shaking everybody's hand. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Fairness And Responsiveness Of Government Officials

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 103

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Preservation Of Aboriginal Languages

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 103

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I believe that the preservation of language is a critical issue for aboriginals of the Northwest Territories. A sustainable territory requires the sustainability of the land, the languages and the cultures of the aboriginal peoples of the Northwest Territories. There are aboriginal groups across North America, including Canada, producing aboriginal language developmental toys that reflect their unique language and culture as part of their language preservation and revitalization programs.

One can't overemphasize the importance of having our own development toy that reflects the characteristics and languages of specific aboriginal groups from the Northwest Territories.

Madam Speaker, for the most part, interactive development toys have not been available for aboriginal languages because the voice of the computer cartridges used to make these toys were only available for languages of over 25 million speakers. However, a Cherokee entrepreneur of the United States adapted a toy for aboriginal languages designed to teach toddlers and young children the basic sounds and words of the language. It helps to preserve the problem of aboriginal language loss by encouraging the aboriginal youth to learn and to speak their native language, but also learning second and even third languages.

The toy is designed with brightly coloured figures including animals and trees that activate the sound of a voice speaking in any aboriginal language. The toys also adapt to ensure that it's reflective of the specific aboriginal group it's intended for. For example, the Inuvialuit language could be used also.

Madam Speaker, I propose that the NWT language version of these toys be developed and funded under the Northern Strategy because it is consistent with the strategy's main goals and objectives, which include to ensure that the importance of the language, traditional knowledge and the way of life is recognized and encouraged. These toys promote language and culture and are developed to recognize the diversity of language and culture and help to preserve the present for future generations. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Preservation Of Aboriginal Languages

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 103

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre From Yellowknife To Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 103

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wanted to speak again today about the transfer of the Territorial Treatment Centre out of Yellowknife, an issue that I feel is being seriously downplayed by the Minister of Health and Social Services and by this government. I believe that the cavalier attitude and actions of this government in dealing with the transfer of this vital program is shameful. I have heard from employees, families and, most recently, organizations that, unlike our government, actually have an interest in what is best for the clients.

In my time here as a Member of this House, I have become aware of how woefully inadequate the services for children and families that face behavioural, emotional and mental health issues really are. The proposed transfer of the Territorial Treatment Centre is a microcosm of the real problems that residents face with this government. Why should it take three years for a family to get their child and themselves some help? Why does a family have to put their child on a wait list for respite care? How does a parent tell their child that they are number 11 on a list for a buddy to help them attend summer camp?

Madam Speaker, we have such a long way to go in terms of addressing the needs of our children and families that find themselves faced with these challenges. The transfer of the Territorial Treatment Centre looks like it's happening for all the wrong reasons. The government is taking a huge step backwards by dismantling and moving one of the only good, quality programs it has in dealing with children with behavioural, emotional and other mental health issues.

The Minister has yet to identify how the transfer of this program is going to impact clients, the children and families that are referred to it. The Minister has said in this House that the transfer will not impact the delivery of the program. Madam Speaker, I believe the Minister is absolutely wrong in his assessment. All I can see in this is backward thinking and opportunism at its finest at the expense of the children and the families that we're trying to help.

It is obvious to me that the government has not done its own due diligence in this decision and is that too much to ask? I implore the Minister and the government to do the right thing. Find another use for Dene K'onia. Leave the Territorial Treatment Centre alone. I'll have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre From Yellowknife To Hay River

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 104

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh , Mr. Menicoche .

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Health Care Services For Elders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 104

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Madam Speaker, I have been approached by numerous elders and most of them have been expressing concerns with inadequate health care services, especially, Madam Speaker, in the community of Wrigley. Wrigley has not had a regular nurse or other medical service staff for quite some time. For an isolated community, this is not acceptable.

When elders come to talk to me about these problems and are obviously in such pain and discomfort, I cannot help feeling frustrated with the current situation of medical services. Elders have to travel to Fort Simpson when they are not in the best of health and strength, Madam Speaker. One elder who is very special in the community has had knee complications and is in pain and waiting for an appointment. This elder asked me when his next appointment will be. Why is he asking me, Madam Speaker?

During special events and feasts, the communities always ask the elders to go first. This is the aboriginal way, to make elders feel as comfortable as possible. That is why my constituents and myself have such an issue with the long waiting time for very painful conditions.

Another elder has pneumonia and needs medical staff in the community. There is still a need for a nurse in Wrigley and the GNWT should consider reinstating one. During breakup and freeze-up, the visits to Wrigley seem to be more sporadic. Our government guarantees them service, but it is not providing it during these very important times.

Many constituents feel the regular visits are becoming less frequent and there is always some kind of reason, such as weather, illness and scheduling, for postponing the medical visits.

While in Fort Simpson or other medical centres, travelling patients are scheduled as any other patients, often waiting in airports or wandering the streets while in pain. They should be given priority so they can go home to be comfortable with their families.

A constituent has expressed their opinion that health care funding from the federal government earmarked specifically for aboriginal peoples is not all going to their intended purposes and a large portion is going to central administration and not helping elders, as the one in this community.

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my Member's statement.

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Health Care Services For Elders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 104

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Menicoche .

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Health Care Services For Elders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 104

Kevin A. Menicoche

Nahendeh

Thank you, honourable colleagues. Madam Speaker, if the GNWT does not take action now, it would be unacceptable if there was a serious, unfortunate event that was to occur. Health care must be one of the highest priorities of this government. The provision of regular health care for our communities and constituents must be a priority of this government. It, too, I believe, must be declared a necessary service to the NWT, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

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Health Care Services For Elders

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 104

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Value Of Youth Exchange

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 104

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. During the First and Second World Wars a group of very dedicated American field service people volunteered as ambulance brigades overseas. At the end of the Second World War, they decided that the cause of peace and world harmony would be very well served if they paid attention to the families of the young people that they met while in Europe and created exchanges for them with their own families in America.

Shortly after the Second World War, I think 10 countries participated in an international exchange organization that has now grown to encompass, I believe, 54 countries around the world. Twenty-five years ago, this

organization, now called AFS Interculture Canada, got its start here in this country and as far as I can figure, about 22 years ago, Madam Speaker, it got its start here in Yellowknife. We've had the opportunity and the great pleasure of hosting in those 22 years or so more than 150 students and we have sent, I think, about half that number out into the world. It is a life-changing experience, Madam Speaker, not only for the young people who engage in this, but for the families around the world and certainly here in Yellowknife, who take on the challenge of hosting these people and helping them know about Canada.

This year we are pleased to host eight students with the AFS program here in Canada and our schools also welcome students from other programs, including World Heritage. A bit later on this afternoon, Madam Speaker, all of those students will be introduced.

This couldn't happen without the generosity of the families here, but also of our school system and with the students with us this year at Sir John Franklin High School. Also, Madam Speaker, with the unwavering support of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment who, like those volunteers from many years ago, believed in the value of youth and world exchange and a better world tomorrow. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Value Of Youth Exchange

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 105

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Recognition Of Francophone Science Fair

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 105

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Schools throughout the NWT and Canada are forced to deal with restrictions and financial restraints. Many of the activities and events that students take

part in today are due to the tireless efforts of individual staff members and parents advisory committees and volunteers, as well as many business organizations that all provide a role in providing opportunities for students and young people.

Today I'd like to recognize a special case, a good news story. Madam Speaker, this past March there was a science fair held here in Yellowknife and some 80 students from Grade 3 and up from Ecole Boreale in Hay River in conjunction with Ecole Alain St. Cyr here in Yellowknife, held a special science fair that was not scheduled on their typical school year calendar. This was done on short notice, quick planning, and it brought the science fair here to Yellowknife so the francophone students could have a little community project together.

This turned out to be an extremely positive experience, and the students afforded this opportunity had a chance to meet with their peers, visit special places like L'Aquilon, which is the French newspaper, visit Radio Taiga, which is the French radio station, an experience that the Hay River students don't usually get. It was a wonderful opportunity that they could share this culturally beneficial and intellectual opportunity here in Yellowknife together. This event wasn't planned, but I can tell you right now it's being discussed for the future, because it was such an array of opportunities for the kids that they are not able to often experience.

Madam Speaker, the Legion played a role in hosting the science fair and I heard it was standing room only on many occasions to see some of the opportunities there that the young students were doing. I want to say a special thanks to those children who made the trek, as well as those who live here in Yellowknife, for dedicating a certain amount of enthusiasm to the innovation of science. A special congratulations to those scientific minds who will be going forward to represent the NWT in Vancouver for their skills in science.

Lastly, Madam Speaker, I want to say that some constituents came forward and mentioned that this was an enormous experience that the children had and it was a big deal to all the kids that attended. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Recognition Of Francophone Science Fair

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 105

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 105

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, in case it hasn't been made absolutely clear by now, I'd like to state categorically once again that the proposed move of the Territorial Treatment Centre to anywhere out of Yellowknife is a very poorly planned and, as one of my Newfoundland friends will say, a foolish idea that must be stopped in its tracks today, Madam Speaker. It should be stopped at least until the Minister and the Cabinet gives us clear answers to some real basic and important questions that we are entitled.

We being not only the MLAs of this House or even the staff at the Territorial Treatment Centre, but more importantly in the best interest of the children who are being treated there.

Madam Speaker, the children who are being treated there are in a very sophisticated, comprehensive, well-planned, well-developed clinical setting. These children suffer from very severe emotional, behavioural and mental issues that they are under treatment for. It has taken years, at least 10 years, for this program to be developed in this city by the very fragile putting together of various specialists and professionals who can address the needs of these children. So far the information that we're giving in this House does not indicate to us in any way that the Cabinet and the Minister have given due regard to the interest and needs of these children.

I'd like to ask also, Madam Speaker, why is it that the Social Programs committee, which I chair, was not given any notice whatsoever? I could tell you that the only time I got to know about this project was when I read it in the paper. There has never been any plan about the adequacy of the building or how these children are going to be treated if they get moved out of the system that they are being treated under. I'd like to know if the Cabinet had good information as to all aspects of the treatment and the facility that they are under.

I would like to know if ECE -- I know for sure that they have not -- have consulted the educational system in Hay River or anywhere else about whether or not they can absorb these very high-need students and be able to provide the necessary service that they need.

Madam Speaker, I would like to pursue all of these questions further later today. Thank you.

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Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 106

Some Hon. Members

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

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Proposed Move Of The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 106

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput , Mr. Pokiak .

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Species At Risk Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 106

Calvin Pokiak

Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise today to speak in regard to the Species at Risk Act. During a northern leaders conference in Inuvik, Members of Cabinet and some Regular Members met with the Inuvialuit, the Gwich'in and the Tlicho leadership to discuss the Species at Risk Act. Madam Speaker, the leaders at this meeting are frustrated with the amount of time this government is taking to move forward with the Species at Risk Act.

Madam Speaker, the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources committed to move forward with this SARA by holding a meeting with the Inuvialuit, Gwich'in, Tlicho and Sahtu leaders to discuss the SARA and to find a common ground to move forward. It has been over a month-and-a-half since the commitment by the Minister. When will the meeting take place to move forward with the SARA legislation? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Species At Risk Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 106

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak . Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Krutko .

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Congratulations To Mackenzie Delta Graduates

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 106

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Good afternoon, my friends. Madam Speaker, I rise today to congratulate a number of graduates in my riding. Over the past few years, the number of high school graduates in the Mackenzie Delta has increased. More and more graduates are walking down the aisle and picking up their diplomas. This positive atmosphere has a lot to do with our teachers in our communities, and the will of the students to strive to better themselves and to be role models to future graduates.

In Fort McPherson we have a total of 16 graduates that will receive their diplomas on June 10th. In Aklavik we have eight students graduating on June 17th. There are also two graduates that come from Tsiigehtchic that are finishing their Grade 12 in Inuvik. I want to recognize and congratulate the 26 Grade 12 graduates that come from the Mackenzie Delta and encourage them each to continue their endeavours and future education, but also ask them to continue their lifetime learning and strive for the best you can by way of receiving your diploma and education and also receiving a better job, a better life and also to better our communities.

Without our graduates, without our students, we cannot take advantage of self-government, oil and gas developments, or opportunities that come our way. I encourage those graduates to continue furthering their education and take advantage of these opportunities. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Congratulations To Mackenzie Delta Graduates

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 106

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 106

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a couple of folks that I would like to introduce here today: Federico Feijoo, an exchange student who is with us today from Argentina...

---Applause

He is hosted by the Rentmeister family, constituents of mine; as well, Barbara Kurz from Germany. Welcome, Barbara.

---Applause

Barbara is hosted by the Ramsay family. As well, Madam Speaker, I would like to recognize during this session we have two Pages from the constituency of Kam Lake: Amelia Debogorski, she is right there. With Amelia is Sarah Topilikon. I would like to welcome both of them. Thank you.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 106

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Item, 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Braden .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 106

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. For some great coincidence our exchange students who are in Yellowknife this year are nicely divided among all seven Yellowknife ridings. In my riding of Great Slave, I would like to introduce Mr. Scott Alltree from New Zealand who is hosted by the Miller family.

---Applause

Welcome, Scott.

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 106

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Hawkins .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 106

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have two sets of visitors to acknowledge today. First I will acknowledge the constituents of Chuck Tolley and Muriel Tolley, and Muriel's mother, Vera Forde, from Saskatoon is visiting. I believe they are just above here.

---Applause

Madam Speaker, I, too, have an exchange student that lives in my riding. This exchange student is hosted by the Glowach family, so I wish to say thank you to them. The young man's name is Alan Chiang from Hong Kong.

---Applause

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 106

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Premier , Mr. Handley .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

Joe Handley

Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have two people that I would like to recognize. First, Szilvia Dubovay from Hungary who has been a constituent of mine for the last year and is hosted by the Pellerin family.

---Applause

I would also like to recognize my constituent Major Karen Hoeft. I have introduced her before and I can assure all the Members that not only does Major Hoeft listen to every statement that Ministers and Members make, but she also reads every bill as it is approved at first reading. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Premier Handley. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Minister Bell .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In keeping with the Member for Great Slave's statement, I would like to recognize two AFS exchange students in my riding: Johan Lundeberg who is from Sweden;

---Applause

Gustuva Cabrera from Paraguay. Both students, I understand, are staying with the Harbichts. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bell . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Ms. Lee .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I am a former graduate of Sir John Franklin High School, but when I went to school there we didn't have such an extensive International Exchange Program. I think it is a fantastic program. It adds so much global sophistication and openness to the school and I am so pleased to have them attending our Assembly today. It is especially my pleasure to recognize someone from Austria, a beautiful country known for classical music, and I hope I say her name okay; Pia Zischka. Welcome. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Dent .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. One of the visiting students has been hosted by the Bannon family in my constituency, and that is Etienne Miquel from France.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Ms. Lee .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

With the indulgence of the House, may I just recognize that the exchange student in my riding is staying with Linda and Abe Theil and I would like to thank them. Thank you.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 107

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would just like to add that it is indeed a pleasure to have the international exchange students in the gallery today. We hope you have thoroughly enjoyed your stay in Yellowknife.

At this time on our Agenda we have item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Range Lake , Ms. Lee .

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Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 107

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my questions today will be to the Cabinet and the government with regard to the proposed transfer of TTC to outside of Yellowknife. Madam Speaker, my questions are to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment . We, the Yellowknife Members, have been learning a lot about what this program is about and one of the new things we have learned is that the local educational system has a very intimate and intense involvement with the children who are housed there. Although they have their own classroom there, it is being administered by the Catholic school board.

The Catholic schools and all the public schools are involved in incorporating these children into the educational program. I would like to think that when a government makes the decision that impacts the lives and future of as many as eight children, that the government would look into what kind of educational impact it would have on the children. I would like to know what work the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and his staff has done to take care of the needs of these students. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 107

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Dent .

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Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 107

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the proposed move of the facility is still at least a year-and-a-half away. This still has to go through the business planning process, so at this point Education, Culture and Employment hasn't actually done anything to plan the move.

I can tell you that ECE funds Yellowknife Catholic schools for providing services to that facility as a magnet facility, just as we fund YK No. 1 for the services that they provide to Allison MacAteer House. If that facility were to move to another community, that funding, the magnet funding, would also move to provide the schools in that region with the funding to provide the services.

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Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 107

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 107

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think the troubling aspect of the debate in this House about this issue is that the focus is so much on the money and the jobs being created, which is not a small thing. After all, we make decisions about how to spend money and such. Today, I think I was trying to indicate in my Member's statement that we need to focus on the children that are

being treated there because of very, very severe issues that they need to be helped with.

These educators are not just an agent that gets government money and just runs this program. These educators are also the experts about educating children and they are aware of what issues these children are being treated with and what they need clinically, psychologically, everything. I would think that Cabinet, when they were deciding to move this, would have looked at what this would all mean. I don't think it is good enough to say we are going to take care of that in the future. I would like to know what sort of pre-op work has been done. What information did the Minister bring to the Cabinet table in discussing this issue? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It wasn't an issue that was brought to the Cabinet table by Education, Culture and Employment. It was a proposal by the Minister of Health and Social Services . However, I would say Education, Culture and Employment is prepared to ensure the children, no matter which community they are located in, receive the appropriate services. When I talked about the money, I was talking about making sure that we had the money to pay the salaries of the people that would be required to provide those services. That will follow the children.

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Further Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Shorter supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Short supplementary. I would like to think that when Cabinet Ministers look at transferring a program like this they would work with more information than just transfer this. I like to think that the Education Minister would have brought to the table what it would mean to the kids there, because obviously the Cabinet and the government are the caretakers. I would like to know what information, if any, has he got thus far about what kind of education program these students will be needing. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Mr. Dent .

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Further Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The education programs are delivered in the Northwest Territories by divisional education councils. They are funded to deliver that program. In this case, the appropriate divisional education council will be funded to deliver the program. The expectation is that appropriate programs are provided no matter what needs the kids have. That is why we have an inclusive schooling policy.

It doesn't matter where a child is in the Northwest Territories, it is the responsibility of the divisional education council to make sure that they provide appropriate programming for that child; whether that child is in Hay River, Yellowknife, Inuvik or Fort Smith. It makes no difference. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Final supplementary, Ms. Lee .

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Supplementary To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

Sandy Lee

Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is obvious that the Minister doesn't know the full information about this, because we are not dealing with special needs children who need inclusive programs here. We are talking about children who are far beyond the needs of inclusive schooling. Does the Minister know that these students, eight of them, cannot be absorbed into one school? The benefit of having them in Yellowknife is that they can be chosen to go to any of the seven schools. There is no way one school could absorb all of these students, because they have such high needs. Does the Minister of Education know that? Why does he not know that, if he doesn't know that? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Lee . Minister Dent .

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Further Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

Charles Dent

Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The population in that facility today may be totally different in 18 months, so I can't speak for where the kids may be able to go in 18 months. I can tell you, as far as I know, Hay River has more than two schools.

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Further Return To Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Question 51-15(4): Territorial Treatment Centre School Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu , Mr. Yakeleya .

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Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, from the Minister's statement on tourism in the Northwest Territories, he made reference to the millions of dollars being spent in the Northwest Territories. I wonder if the Minister could tell me how many dollars were kept in the Northwest Territories. They may have spent millions of dollars in the Northwest Territories but in a rough estimate, how many dollars were kept in the Northwest Territories as a result of the figures that he has given us? Thank you.

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Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment , Mr. Bell .

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Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 108

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm not sure I'm clear or maybe I just don't understand the question. The money generated, the additional GDP generated in the Northwest Territories, I have given the Member those figures in the statement. Those are some projections for the 2004-05 season. We believe that the vast majority of that money stays in the Northwest Territories. Obviously there is some leakage. I don't think that we are able to quantify what the leakage would be, but it would be no different than any other jurisdiction, I don't believe, in that most of the money probably stays and is spent and circulates in that jurisdiction. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister has answered the question partially. I will follow up later on with that question privately. The question I guess I want to ask the Minister also, in terms of the creation of the new Department of ITI, and giving industry a new profile within this government and within the industry of tourism, what is the government committing to do to work with the aboriginal governments in terms of giving the profile of industry in the Northwest Territories? What type of commitment has he given the aboriginal governments in the regions to heighten the new profile with ITI?

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Supplementary To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister Bell .

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Further Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. One of the things that we sought out to do when we sat down to do our analysis of roles and responsibilities of the department, vis-a-vis the industry association, was to better understand who is doing what currently, to talk about who should be doing what and to address some gaps.

One of the gaps that we felt in tourism in the Northwest Territories was regional representation; in fact, regional impact on the ground across all regions of the Northwest Territories. We think that there are compelling arguments to be made for tourism money to be spent everywhere and that everybody should have an equal chance to develop their industry. We think that a lot of product development needs to take place in many of our smaller communities. We are proposing a new tourism funding model. We are talking to industry about that; I have met with committee about that as well. One of the pillars is to ensure regional representation on a new destination marketing organization.

We haven't, I guess I would say, crossed the t's and dotted the i's yet, Madam Speaker, but we are working on a model that we think will be as representative as possible of both sectors and regions. I think that is a very positive step. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Bell . Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya .

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Supplementary To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The funding model that the Minister has alluded to, also speaking to the tourism industry I guess my question is not so much the tourism industry but what types of discussions is he having with the aboriginal governments in the regions in terms of this model? It may have some consequences to the land claim settlements in some of the regions that have settled the comprehensive land claims. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister Bell .

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Further Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We believe it is an enhancement of the current model and will allow for additional funding to flow into regions, but we talked about working with our tourism partners, by sector, and with regional and community organizations in order to make sure that tourism money is able to best hit the ground. Obviously, we will be talking with aboriginal governments and the relevant organizations in the regions to talk about how we can best achieve that.

So going forward as we sit down with committee and industry and have a better handle on what this model will look like, we will be meeting and discussing this with all the relevant stakeholders and regional organizations. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Bell . Final supplementary, Mr. Bell .

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Supplementary To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

Norman Yakeleya

Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the point I would like to ask questions on is to the input from the regional organizations, more importantly the regional governments in the Sahtu, or the aboriginal governments that have a high stake in seeing tourism flow into our region. What can the Minister commit to in the next couple of months in terms of ensuring that the aboriginal governments will be part of this model that could used in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya . Minister Bell .

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Further Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

Brendan Bell

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I can give the Member my assurance that this will be absolutely an inclusive model that people right across the Northwest Territories will be able to take advantage of. The tourism sector will be broadly represented. All communities and regions will have representation in the new model. In terms of new money, we are talking about going forward with the business planning process and will handle that in due course with communities to talk about what will be appropriate. Obviously there are some decisions to be made as a government and as a Cabinet.

In the coming months, as we sit down to do our business planning and it gets underway with committees in earnest in September, we will have a lot more discussion on how we should approach this. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Question 52-15(4): Tourism Revenue Kept In The Nwt

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Bell . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave , Mr. Braden .

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Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 109

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Health and Social Services on the issue of the removal of the TTC facility for behaviourally disturbed youngsters to Hay

River. Madam Speaker, as my colleagues have already indicated and we've done so over the last few days here, the increasing information and substantiation that we are getting for the consequences that there will be for the children, for their families and for a wider range of services and frontline social agencies here in the city. There are at least four or five that have been brought to my attention that will be directly impacted or involved in this. It takes a community to raise a child and that's what this centre has been trying to build for the last 10 years, a community of service for these children.

Understanding that this centre is one of the treatment success stories for children in the Northwest Territories, why does the Minister insist on going ahead with what will surely amount to a very serious erosion to a very successfully built up part of our infrastructure for children? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, Bosco Homes provides a very high level of program service for children in Fort Smith and in TTC. As I have indicated repeatedly over the sitting of this Assembly, the decision has been made to relocate the program. The determination is that the program can be transferred and can operate without any erosion. The service will still be there. It's a territorial program open to all the children in the Northwest Territories. It will continue to provide the service, educationally and socially, that it currently does provide right now. Thank you.

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Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Madam Speaker, we really are at a standoff at this point. We must come back to the whole premise of when a major change is made to a piece of social delivery or piece of social delivery infrastructure, that there are significant consequences. The Minister will not accept this, but we are seeing and hearing an overwhelming body of information and very sincere expressions from professionals about what this will cause. Madam Speaker, our point to the Minister has been to show us the plan, to show that the department understands and is knowledgeable about the consequences. We have not seen that.

When is the Minister going to put that in front of Members and in front of the community, so we can all see that his claims are indeed going to be substantiated? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I am acutely aware that any change in service delivery that affects communities has impact, especially in the involved communities. This program is going to continue to be delivered by Bosco Homes. They are going to continue to provide the high level of service that they have provided in Fort Smith all these years. The Premier stood up in the House yesterday and indicated that by the end of this day we will have packages for the Members that will lay out the documentation that got us to this point and that will be ready as promised. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Madam Speaker, this is not good government.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

Some Hon. Members

Bad.

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Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

Bill Braden

Great Slave

We have established a convention and a belief as part of the process of consensus that we will work with each other on significant changes like this. I will say it again and again and again, we were denied the access, involvement and input to this kind of process in this decision. It was, indeed, something that was out there as a very viable idea. We came back into this House just last week and we find out that this is a done deal. This is where this government has let us down and it's letting this community down.

The government must rescind its desire or its program to move this facility until the community is convinced that the consequences can be managed. Will the Minister do so? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I can appreciate the Member of Yellowknife Great Slave's concerns, very specific and germane to his constituency. However, as a Member of this government and as a Cabinet Minister, we have a responsibility to think territorial-wide and to take careful, measured decisions that we think will positively benefit all of the residents, including the children. We have done that in this case. We have given a clear signal of what we intend to do. We have indicated that there will be a period of time to transition this with renovations and such over the next 18 months.

We will be coming forward in the business plans with more specifics. We will follow through on that to go through the process. From a territorial-wide perspective, it's our opinion that this is a good decision, a very viable decision, a program that can be adequately and well run in Hay River by the current contractor who has a long track record of providing a high level of service. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 110

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Braden .

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Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

Bill Braden

Great Slave

Can the Minister advise the House, Madam Speaker, of the process and arrangements for ascertaining how that contractor will be selected and, Madam Speaker, how the other significant supports that will be required from the community such as the involvement of the local school authority, the local medical authority, will be built into this continuum of care that a facility like this needs? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Braden . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, one must be clear that Hay River is one of the largest communities outside of Yellowknife and it has a very high level of educational facilities. It has a very high level of health care services. It's about a half-hour or 40 minutes across the lake to Yellowknife to access specialist services that may be here at Stanton. Very clearly, we will be working with the involved agencies to make sure that the transition is a smooth one.

I want to point out, once again, that Hay River has a history or providing service to children that goes back many, many years, far longer than 10. I have been involved now with Health and Social Services in this capacity, as well as a former employee, and that goes back to the '70s. I know that back then, Hay River at that time provided a high level of service to children. In this case, they will continue to carry on that fine tradition, I am sure. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 53-15(4): Move Of Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger . At this time, I would like to use my prerogative as chair and the Speaker to recognize in the gallery the presence of one of our Member's mothers from Tulita, Laura Lennie. Also with Mr. Yakeleya is his partner, Cheryl. Welcome to the gallery.

---Applause

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake , Mr. Ramsay .

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Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The more I learn about this situation about the proposal to move the TTC out of Yellowknife, the more concerned and alarmed I am that due diligence was not done and consultation was not done. Just as recently as today, I found out that on the educational side, for the needs of the clients at the TTC, there was no consultation with Education. ECE had really no knowledge that this was going to happen when the Cabinet Minister was sitting in a meeting making a decision on this back in March. His department had no idea of it. I would like to know how that happens. It shouldn't happen.

The Minister has some explaining to do. The first question I have is why has it taken him almost a week to put together this mysterious and elusive business plan or consultation or review or anything that was done by his department? Why do we have to sit over here for almost a week waiting for some answers? I would like the Minister to answer that question. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . The Minister of Health and Social Services , Mr. Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, earlier my colleague from Kam Lake made some unfortunate comments where he spoke in an absolute way about the fact that Health and Social Services obviously didn't care about children. I just want to point out for the record that there are over 1,200 employees who work for Health and Social Services plus many contractual employees through NGOs and other service agencies, the majority of whom deal with children on a daily basis. They have devoted their lives to working with children and are very caring and committed people. It's an unfortunate characterization that I want to point out is not the case.

With regard to the information, it's coming as promised. I have given the information that you will see will hopefully be corroborated to your satisfaction in the documents that lay out the process. There is no four-inch stack of paper. You have asked for a chronology and some background information. That will be provided today as promised.

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Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Obviously, I think the Minister just stated that he hasn't done any consultation. ECE wasn't consulted. Regular Members weren't consulted. Who exactly was consulted or have the folks in his department been busy the last week just putting together a chronology of events? If that's all we are going to get, Madam Speaker, that's not good enough. I would like to say to the Minister, prove that moving the TTC to Hay River is the right move. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Minister Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, clearly in this case, as the saying goes, the proof will be in the pudding. So we will move the program and it will be demonstrated that it was a good move. To speak ahead of time is hypothetical. I can also speak with some assurance that I could never, at this point, in my mind, be able to adequately convince the Members from Yellowknife that moving this program met their rigorous standing or their desire to make sure they protect their constituents. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 111

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. How could the Minister make the assertion that moving this program will have no impact on the clients when we haven't seen anything in terms of what the impact is going to be and the needs of the clients are going to be in terms of speech therapy, paediatric support, ideology, psychology and other educational needs? These children need responsiveness. They need action right now. If they are in a setting where they can't get that and they have to take a flight to Yellowknife and try to get squeezed into an appointment three months from now, that's not good enough, Madam Speaker. I would like the Minister to answer that question. Thank you.

---Applause

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Supplementary To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Minister Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the majority of these children are going to come from communities outside of Yellowknife and many smaller communities, communities that may struggle just to have a nurse, let alone the range of services that we are discussing in this House that may be available in Yellowknife or Hay River. The services the children need will be available in Hay River or there will be arrangements made to access them in Yellowknife.

If you look at the work plan and the plan for Health and Social Services for the next two years, the plan is to re-establishment rehabilitation teams that are going to service the territory. There will be one based in the South Slave, one based in Yellowknife, in addition to the people who are already here and there will be one based in Inuvik. It's going to have ideologists, speech pathologists, therapists, occupational therapists and such so that we can start providing those services better outside of Yellowknife. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister if he would be able to produce a report that was done last year by FSC on the structural integrity of the current TTC facility. Was his decision solely a political decision, or a decision based on a physical piece of infrastructure that is not worth fixing up? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Mr. Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, there are a number of factors that were discussed over the last few days. Very clearly, the government, as I stated in this House, has a position and a policy on decentralization and looking at trying to move things out of Yellowknife that is equitable, fair and spreads some of the government resources around. This program can be provided outside of Yellowknife. There is a community, Hay River, that has that capacity. The program is just going to be moved. It's not being dismantled. It's not being structurally changed.

The contractor has indicated that they are very willing to work with us to provide that service. We've taken the steps to ensure that this will be done in a careful, measured way and we are going to follow through on that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger . Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay .

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Supplementary To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

David Ramsay

Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I agree with the Minister that the government could look at moving some jobs and some things outside of the capital city. I agree with decentralization as a principle of this government, but why would you do something with a program that affects children and families and most of the referrals are out of this region and north of the city of Yellowknife? I don't understand the rationale behind that. If you want to move government jobs, that's one thing, but when you start messing around with a program that is supposed to help children and families, then I have to take issue with that.

I would like to follow up on what one of my colleagues was mentioning earlier. The information we were supposed to get, we are going to get that today. I thought I heard the Minister say that. Can he confirm that we will get the information he has today? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay . Minister Miltenberger .

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Further Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. For the record, we should be absolutely, categorically, unequivocally and starkly clear that we are not messing around with the program. We are moving the program as it exists to another community with the same contractor, with the same skills and with access to the same resources to do that. I want to point out the majority of children who access TTC are from outside of Yellowknife. We will provide the information as was promised, and if it's insufficient I am sure that I will be getting direct feedback from the Members and if it is insufficient we'll try to fill in what gaps the Members may think still exist. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 54-15(4): Consultation Process For Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger . Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre , Mr. Hawkins .

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Question 55-15(4): Cost Of Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 112

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Although I wish I could ask a housing question today, I've been pressured to ask some TTC questions. So, Madam Speaker, I will be asking questions to the Minister of Health and Social Services , the Honourable Michael Miltenberger , in regard to the costs associated with moving the TTC in Yellowknife to Hay River. As all of us know, Dene K'onia is a jail, cinder block, bars; it's a jail.

So what is going to be the premium that he thinks is no big deal to transfer anything south or anywhere else out of Yellowknife? What is the total premium it's going to cost us to renovate the Dene K'onia so it's no longer a cinder block and bar facility, but it's a proper treatment centre for these youth? What is the total cost of this? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

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Question 55-15(4): Cost Of Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 113

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins . Minister Miltenberger .

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Return To Question 55-15(4): Cost Of Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 55-15(4): Cost Of Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 113

Michael Miltenberger

Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, this facility will be renovated with the money that was in the budget initially when TTC was here. An initial plan a number of years ago was to renovate this one, and that figure is in the $3 million range. That money will be used to renovate Dene K'onia, and the estimates that we have from Public Works and Services are that it can be done for that money.

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Return To Question 55-15(4): Cost Of Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 55-15(4): Cost Of Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 113

The Deputy Speaker

Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger . Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins .

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Supplementary To Question 55-15(4): Cost Of Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Question 55-15(4): Cost Of Moving The Territorial Treatment Centre

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 113

Robert Hawkins

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I say this with respect, but I wish the Minister had that type of vision maybe to open up our treatment centre here in Yellowknife. We don't have a Territorial Treatment Centre open. We could have spent that $3.3 million or whatever the actual dollars are. Why don't we open a facility that this community is in desperate need of, because we have communities sending folks with problems to Yellowknife and they're getting them out of the community? The cost is unreasonable.

So how much is it now going to cost us if we spend $3.3 million in Hay River to renovate Dene K'onia now to fly these kids back to Yellowknife for that treatment as mentioned by one of the Members about the psych treatment, the ped treatment, the audiology treatment? How much extra a premium is this government willing to pay when we could have better spent this money by continuing to deliver a stable service here in Yellowknife? But no, we're going to spend more money. So how much more money of a premium are we going to spend? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Supplementary To