Debates of March 26th, 1993

This is page numbers 1207 - 1227 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was facility .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Refuting Previous Comments By Honourable Stephen Kakfwi Re River Ridge Facility

39th Annual Caribou Carnival In Yellowknife

Causes Of Frequent Power Outages In Iqaluit

Implications Of Tax Measures Proposed By GNWT

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Emergency Measures Equipment For Hay River Reserve

Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Assistance To Fort Smith Elder To Publish Book

Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Financial Benefit Of NWT Contractors Operating In Ussr

Supplementary Funding For Changes To River Ridge

Personal Participation In Minister's Travel To The Ussr

GNWT Programs For Summer Students

Employment Programs For Iqaluit Students

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Tabled Document 91-12(3): Northwest Territories Aids Project - Review, And Tabled Document 92-12(3): Hiv And Aids In The NWT In 1993

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Hon. Rebecca Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Hon. Richard Nerysoo , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Mr. Whitford

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 1207

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

This House will come to order. Before I begin with the Ministers' statements, I would like to recognize in the gallery, a group of 20 rotary club students from the around the world, South Africa, Australia, Brazil, Vietnam and India, as well as Canadian students from British Columbia and Alberta. These students are being sponsored by the Alberta Rotary Club. The rotary club from Yellowknife is hosting a program called "northern experiences." The students are in town for five days and will take

part in the Caribou Carnival activities this weekend. We hope they enjoy their visit to our territory.

---Applause

Welcome to the Northwest Territories. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Thebacha .

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Refuting Previous Comments By Honourable Stephen Kakfwi Re River Ridge Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1207

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Wednesday, March 24, 1993, the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi stated, and I quote from page 3157 of the unedited Hansard, "The homework which should be done should be with Members who are sometimes using information which is not correct because it impacts on statements which are made, for instance, by members of the union. When there is no attempt to correct some of the misinformation, then it becomes a problem for good factual debate in this House." Mr. Speaker, the statement made by Mr.

Kakfwi was in response to my questioning the Minister on legal implications flowing from the Department of Justice's decision to designate the River Ridge facility as a secure facility. Mr. Speaker, I take strong exception to the honourable Member's statement.

The Minister is aware that I have tabled several legal documents which deal with the proper and improper designation of young offenders' facilities. The Minister, himself, acknowledges the relevance by these decisions when he stated and I quote from page 3156 from unedited Hansard, "The court cases which the Member tabled are court cases which the Department of Justice is fully aware of.

They were reviewed a few months ago when this plan was being considered on a tentative basis." Given that the Minister's staff have reviewed these cases, how can he suggest that Members are not doing their homework and that Members are presenting misinformation? Mr. Speaker, the case is tabled and the thrust of my questions to the Minister have focused on whether the designation is appropriate and in keeping with the law.

It may well be that the designation is appropriate and legal if the Department of Justice takes certain steps to establish programs appropriate to young offenders in an open custody facility, or if the staff are trained to deal with open custody offenders or if certain structural modifications are made. Those are the issues.

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Refuting Previous Comments By Honourable Stephen Kakfwi Re River Ridge Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1207

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Member for Thebacha , your allotted time has expired. Member for Thebacha .

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Refuting Previous Comments By Honourable Stephen Kakfwi Re River Ridge Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1207

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you. I seek unanimous consent to continue.

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Refuting Previous Comments By Honourable Stephen Kakfwi Re River Ridge Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1207

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Member for Thebacha .

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Refuting Previous Comments By Honourable Stephen Kakfwi Re River Ridge Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1207

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Those are the issues, Mr. Speaker. They are legitimate issues of concern to me and to my constituents. The Minister has not taken the time to deal with these issues in this House in a thorough and thoughtful manner, which is responsive to legitimate concerns. On the contrary, the Minister has dismissed my concerns with an off-the-cuff comment about failure to do homework and presenting misinformation to this House.

Further to this, Mr. Speaker, he also knows I tabled a letter this week from the union, which the last paragraph reads and I quote, "Therefore, I would suggest that your statement 'that as far as you know everyone is in agreement, except for the union' is completely inaccurate as I believe you knew it was at the time you made these remarks." That is signed by Keith Dowling who is the regional vice-president of the union in Fort Smith. It makes me wonder, Mr. Speaker, who is presenting misinformation in this House. Mr. Speaker, the issue will not go away.

I will continue to question the Minister until I am satisfied that the interest of the young offenders in the Northwest Territories and the concerns of my constituents are addressed. Thank you.

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Refuting Previous Comments By Honourable Stephen Kakfwi Re River Ridge Facility

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1207

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent .

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39th Annual Caribou Carnival In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1207

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had not realized I had joined the postal code team. Mr. Speaker, this weekend the city of Yellowknife is celebrating its 39th annual Caribou Carnival. For almost 40 years now, Yellowknifers have been

participating in a wide variety of carnival events such as the Caribou Capers show, the ice sculpting contests, Tree of Peace talent show and various sporting competitions. Although the Caribou Carnival cops have already been making arrests for the past few days, the carnival does not officially kick-off until noon today.

Caribou Carnival is a unique northern event which provides Yellowknifers with an entertaining break towards the end of our long winters. The carnival is enjoyed by visitors outside the city as well.

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39th Annual Caribou Carnival In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1208

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

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39th Annual Caribou Carnival In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1208

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

In the past couple of years, carnival organizers have focused on making Caribou Carnival more of a tourist attraction. This week, the city of Yellowknife hosted the winter cities forum 1993, which saw many international and national delegates travelling to Yellowknife to attend this conference. The presence of national and international visitors at this year's carnival will hopefully attract greater numbers of tourists in future years. We can hope that our rotary visitors will spread the word about Yellowknife, so we will see more rotary exchange students back next year.

Mr. Speaker, the highlight of the Caribou Carnival is always the Canadian championship dog derby. Earlier in the House this week, the Member from Yellowknife South explained the particulars of this race, it requires a special strength and endurance from derby competitors. I would like to extend my best wishes to all those competing in the dog derby this weekend.

The city of Yellowknife is also privileged to be hosting the 1993 western Canadian cross-country skiing championships. Again, I would like to wish the best of luck to all skiing competitors.

Mr. Speaker, with the number of visitors in town and the extra events taking place, this year's carnival promises to be a great success. I encourage all out of town Members to join in the weekend's festivities. I would like to recognize members of the Caribou Carnival Association and all the carnival volunteers in their efforts in organizing this year's events. I am sure it has been a particularly busy year for them.

Finally, I wish all Yellowknifers and visitors to the city, a fun-filled Caribou Carnival, 1993. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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39th Annual Caribou Carnival In Yellowknife

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1208

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson .

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Causes Of Frequent Power Outages In Iqaluit

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1208

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday, March 2, 1993, I asked the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea , Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, about causes of frequent power outages at the plant in Iqaluit. The Minister stated in her responses to my questions that the problems could be a result of human error. I then went on to ask the Minister, among other things, whether there were gremlins loose in the Iqaluit power plant.

Mr. Speaker, these statements caused some great concern to the dedicated staff in the Iqaluit plant. I have since looked into the situation and I have learned that an exhaustive analysis of the problems at the power plant by the corporation has concluded there was no human error. The problems were technical and, as I understand it, a result mainly of problems connecting new equipment with very old equipment and exchanges. There was no sabotage.

I understand the new unit is on-line and seems to be working well. I wish to apologize for any offence my questions may have given to dedicated staff, who were doing their professional best in difficult circumstances. Thank you.

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Causes Of Frequent Power Outages In Iqaluit

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1208

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis .

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Implications Of Tax Measures Proposed By GNWT

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1208

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I listened with interest to the budget speech from the Yukon this week. In that jurisdiction they found it necessary to raise taxes and, like our government, they are favoured because they do not have a huge deficit to worry about. Whenever you deliver government programs, the money has to come from somewhere. People have to get the idea that anything they ask for has to be paid for and it is their money that pays for it through the tax regime.

We have faced the same kind of problem here, but we do not have a party system, we have consensus government, which means that any individual here who does not want to vote for something because it will make him or her unpopular, will not do so. It puts our own government at a tremendous disadvantage compared to other governments. It is very difficult to get unpopular legislation through any assembly. For example, in my constituency, by voting for a tax measure, I will automatically be considered to be out of sync with the people I represent.

The tax we have in front of us to deal with very soon is a payroll tax and for many of the people I represent it seems rather "cute." An attempt to get us to pay taxes by pretending to tax people who live somewhere else. My own guess is if we were more straightforward with the public and say if they want service someone has to pay for it, we would just simply make an adjustment so the tax which we impose on people is very clearly designed to provide the level of service people are asking for. Thank you.

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Implications Of Tax Measures Proposed By GNWT

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1208

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 490-12(3): Eligibility Criteria For Legal Aid On Appeals

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1208

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have two returns to oral questions. The first is a response to a question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on March 15, 1993, regarding the eligibility criteria for legal aid on appeals.

Procedures concerning decisions about the funding of appeals by the Legal Services Board are set out in the legal services regulations. As the honourable Member indicated in her question, the funding application must be accompanied by the opinion of the lawyer who conducted the case at the trial level, as to the advisability of commencing or defending an appeal. Before an appeal is funded, the case is examined by the executive director, who must determine if the appeal is reasonable.

The regulations provide that the executive director, in determining whether an appeal is reasonable, must take into account the possibility of success of the appeal. The regulations also direct that the executive director must weigh the merits of the case and arrive at a decision in the same manner as a private lawyer would if asked to advise an ordinary person who was able to afford the cost of an appeal. If the executive director considers the appeal reasonable he or she will approve the funding.

The department will forward the question of the honourable Member to the Legal Services Board with a request that it be seriously considered in the context of the recommendations of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, the Strength at Two Levels report, the task force on legal aid, and the federal/territorial cost-sharing agreement requirements. Thank you.

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Return To Question 494-12(3): Determination Of Retailer For Inmate Wood Cutting Program

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1208

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Lewis on March 15, 1993, regarding the determination of retailer for inmate wood cutting program.

Mr. Speaker, the South Mackenzie Correctional Centre has determined that the following purchasers were retailers because they paid for wood with corporate cheques: Everett's Upholstery, Quality Furniture, Great Northern Lumber, Garry Johnson, Co-op, Overlander Sports, McKiel, Robertson's Trucking, Great Slave Sledging, and Central Mechanical. Thank you.

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Return To Question 494-12(3): Determination Of Retailer For Inmate Wood Cutting Program

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1209

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 425-12(3): Status Of Research On Malikjuaq Park

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1209

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a response to a question asked by Mr. Pudlat on March 5, 1993, regarding the status of research on Malikjuaq Park.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, in response to the question from Mr. Pudlat on the status of Malikjuaq Park, I would like to report the following progress.

During the summer of 1992, the department contracted Mr. Doug Stenton to carry out archaeological work at the park. This work continued from preliminary investigations undertaken during 1991. Four Cape Dorset students were trained by Mr. Stenton and assisted him in the field.

Mr. Stenton has provided the Department of Economic Development and Tourism with a report summarizing his activities and finds, and a draft text for a brochure to be produced this coming year. Copies of this material will be provided to the Member from the department's Iqaluit office.

John Liard and Associates of Yellowknife, was hired during 1992-93 to develop plans and brochures for interpretive walking trails in the park and surrounding the community of Cape Dorset.

In the 1992-93 fiscal year the department provided the community of Lake Harbour with $20,000 for a season hosting program and $12,000 for an oral history project. Stories and legends taken from the oral history project are planned to be used in upcoming tourist pamphlets, park signs and brochures.

For the 1993 fiscal year we have set aside $75,000 in our capital plan for continued development of the park. This would include producing brochures, posters, signs, laying out trails and completing archaeological investigations. The local park advisory committee, made up of Kananginak Pootoogook, Maioni Ashoona and Doug Workman, has also been successful in securing funds from the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Programs for identifying traditional place names in and around the park.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, as a means of promoting visitation to the park, a

section on Malikjuaq Park has been included in the recently produced Baffin handbook. This book will be on sale at many retail outlets throughout Canada and at northern visitor centres. It will provide visitors to the north with greater exposure to the many attractions in the Baffin region including Malikjuaq Park. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Further Return To Question 425-12(3): Status Of Research On Malikjuaq Park

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1209

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 541-12(3): Renegotiation Of Agreement With Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1209

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a question asked by Ms. Marie-Jewell on March 19, 1993. It concerns the review of the freshwater fish marketing agreement.

Mr. Speaker, further to the response given to the Member for Thebacha by the Premier on March 19, the Department of Economic Development and Tourism will be requesting the Department of Justice to review the agreement between the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation and the Government of the Northwest Territories respecting the marketing of freshwater fish. Specifically, the review will focus on the prospects for, and implications of the Northwest Territories getting out of that agreement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 541-12(3): Renegotiation Of Agreement With Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1209

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Return To Question 440-12(3): Assault In Arviat High School

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1209

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Arngna'naaq on March 8, 1993, with regard to an assault in Arviat high school.

On February 17, 1993, an adult approached two students who were standing outside Qitiqliq High School during the afternoon recess, and assaulted one of them. The school called the RCMP, and the student who was assaulted gave the officer a statement but did not want to press charges.

The school and the community education council investigated the possibility of laying charges under the Criminal Code, and the RCMP officer advised them not to proceed. A teacher, the school, or the community education council can report any incidents to the RCMP and encourage the laying of charges. However, in the end the police officer makes the decision to lay a charge.

School authorities are responsible for the supervision and general protection of students. The school and the community education council did report the assault, and did encourage the policy officer to lay charges under the Criminal Code. The school contacted the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association and the association has written the RCMP about this incident, and are awaiting an answer.

There are also other actions school authorities can taken to try to protect the students. The Education Act allows a teacher to exclude any person who has created a disturbance from school premises. The Northwest Territories Teachers' Association and the Department responsible for Education, Culture and Employment Programs are continuing to look into what took place following the assault in Arviat, and are working to ensure that school authorities have the information and advice they need to do their part to protect students in school and on school premises. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 440-12(3): Assault In Arviat High School

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1210

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 543-12(3): Circumstances Leading To The Fisheries Decline

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1210

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a return to a question asked by Mr. Lewis on March 19, 1993, and it concerns the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the problem on the lake is twofold, declining process for the catch and debt load. The Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation (FFMC) extends credit to fishermen in its jurisdictions, and those are advances on future catches. This is to assist the fishermen in getting out onto the lake and catching more fish. The corporation has allowed debts to accumulate. The accumulation of a large debt load and constantly declining prices for whitefish have made it difficult for even the best fishermen to make a living.

At one point, the FFMC was taking 40 per cent off the gross price received by some of the operators, for fish delivered, and that was just to service the debt. This policy crippled the operations of some fishermen and threatened the long-term viability of others. The corporation finally assigned a full-time credit manager to the Great Slave Lake fishery to restructure the credit policy for the lake and advise fishermen on financial operations.

All large operators with excessive debt were offered credit programs tailored to their operations. Some chose not to participate. For those who did, this new policy combined with a very good price for winter whitefish and high catch rates this winter have resulted in a considerable decrease in the debt load accumulated in the fishery. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 543-12(3): Circumstances Leading To The Fisheries Decline

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1210

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Ms. Mike .

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Return To Question 488-12(3): Implications Of Regional Hospital In Keewatin

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1210

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a response to an oral question asked by Mr. Pudlat on March 15, 1993, regarding the implications of a regional hospital in Keewatin.

Mr. Speaker, in response to a question asked by the Member for Baffin South on March 15, 1993, I wish to advise this House that the Keewatin regional health board and a steering committee are currently determining the health service needs of the region, and completing a role study for a regional health facility.

Mr. Speaker, the concerns of Sanikiluaq residents are being considered during this review which I expect to have completed by May 1, 1993. At that time I will contact the Member for Baffin South to work with him on the issue of health services for Sanikiluaq residents. Thank you.

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Return To Question 488-12(3): Implications Of Regional Hospital In Keewatin

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1210

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 597-12(3): Economic Development Officer For Pelly Bay

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1210

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Ningark on March 25, 1993, concerning the EDO at Pelly Bay.

Mr. Speaker, the screening is completed and we are ready to conduct the interviews along with the community. There is no housing available at the present time until the house is renovated. We made some arrangements, other than housing them in Pelly Bay until such time as the house is renovated. The process is well under way, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Return To Question 597-12(3): Economic Development Officer For Pelly Bay

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1210

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 580-12(3): Official Opening Of Katannilik Park

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1210

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question, asked by Mr. Pudlat on March 24, 1993, concerning the Katannilik Park opening.

The land which the new territorial park near Lake Harbour sits on has to be transferred. The formal request for transfer of land to the territorial government is now being processed by the federal government. Once the land is transferred we will sit down, with the help of the community, and plan an official opening of the park. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 580-12(3): Official Opening Of Katannilik Park

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1211

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 547-12(3): Feasibility Study Re Wood Pellet Plant

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1211

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on March 19, 1993, concerning the feasibility study of the wood pellet plant.

Mr. Speaker, the study was completed in mid-December and the result of the study was that the operation of a pellet mill in the Northwest Territories could generally be economically viable assuming it was located in proximity to a viable feeder stock. It also had to be in close proximity to a transportation system and an adequate and economic electricity supply. The size of the facility for break even was estimated at 40,000 tons per annum. This assumes that a market for the pellets could be found.

At present, there is not a sufficient number of pellet stoves in the Northwest Territories to use even five per cent of the production. The cost of phase I of the study was shared 50/50 each by the Northwest Territories Development Corporation and the Science Institute. Phase II of the study involves finding a market for the product. Phase II will study the feasibility of a gasification system which would provide a stable market for a significant portion of the pellets. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Question 547-12(3): Feasibility Study Re Wood Pellet Plant

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1211

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Wednesday, this week, the Minister of Justice seemed to suggest Members were using information that was not accurate in questions which were asked of him. I wonder if the Minister could explain what he meant by those comments? Thank you.

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Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I wish to apologize to the Members of the House for implying that all of them do not do their homework and that they all use information which is not factually accurate. However, I wish to point out an example of the reason for my concern.

There have been letters tabled from the union regarding the River Ridge issue. There have been letters from the chief of the Metis local of Fort Smith which have also been tabled. There have been statements recorded in Hansard, there are certain

definitions which are used by the Member for Thebacha . For instance, she said at one point in her Member's statement on March 16, that there is such an institution as a maximum secure facility. The Member used it more than five times in her Member's statement. She went on to say later that there are three levels of facilities for housing young offenders, maximum secure facilities, secure facilities and open custody placements. At no time was the Member corrected, although in my responses I indicated there were only two. There is open custody and there is closed custody.

I point to this because a member of the union from Fort Smith wrote a letter in the Fort Smith newspaper and uses some of this information, I feel, to perhaps mislead himself. For instance, he talks about a semi-secure facility. Again, there is no such facility or such classification. He also mentions that we are re-designating a facility. What we are doing, in fact, is giving it a triple designation.

That was the reason I raised this because we are starting to table letters from the union and people in the public who depend on the Hansard and statements made in this House to inform themselves and then raise concerns.

For instance, on March 18, the Member for Thebacha went on to say that, "It has always been my understanding that there are three categories of young offenders according to the Corrections Act." Again, the Corrections Act does not deal with young offenders. It is the Young Offenders Act which deals with them. I have had some concern about it and I do not know that there have been any corrections made of these statements.

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Return To Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Return To Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not believe the Minister is aware, and I do not appreciate the suggestion of not knowing the acts. Mr. Speaker, under the Criminal Code of Canada which looks after young offenders, under the Criminal Code which is not territorial, the Young Offenders Act looks after both open custody and secure custody under the Criminal Code of Canada. Thank you.

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Return To Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

That is a point of debate, not a point of order. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

In response to the question from the Member for Iqaluit , I would like to apologize to the House for the statement which I made on that day.

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Return To Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Question 601-12(3): Minister's Comments Re "inaccurate Statements"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Item 5, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I was just trying to obtain a copy of the capital budget to get clarification. I know as a Member of the Standing Committee on Finance, when we go through the budget, we review the different tasks in the details of the budget. In the details of the budget, and I pose this question to the Minister of Justice , there is one page specifically for the young offenders' facility in Fort Smith that states "maximum secure facility." Why does he have the detail of that budget designated as a maximum secure facility, when now he is saying it is not a secure facility? Thank you.

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Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1211

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what the page in the budget book says, I just know in legislation there are two classifications for facilities that deal with young offenders. There is open custody and closed custody.

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Return To Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Supplementary, Member for Thebacha .

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Supplementary To Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I am not asking about the legislation. I am asking the Minister why that particular page in the budget is designated for funds to be approved in this House as a maximum secure facility, when he is now saying to us that he has no secure facilities or no obligation to look at only secure facilities? That is misleading to this House, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, since he does not know what is in his budget, would he review his budget book to see what he is asking Members to approve in this House? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Yes, I would be very happy to do that. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Question 602-12(3): Reference In Scof Books To "maximum Secure Facility"

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan .

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Question 603-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Social Services . Mr. Speaker, about three weeks ago I asked a question to the Minister with regard to the lease of office space, which was arranged by the former Minister, on the Hay River reserve. I received a letter on Monday and the reserve has indicated that there has not been any arrangements of any kind with regard to that lease. I would like to ask the Minister if she has had the opportunity to review the arrangement. Thank you.

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Question 603-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Member for Baffin Central .

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Question 603-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The lease is done through DPW, so I would ask Mr. Morin to respond to your question. Thank you.

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Return To Question 603-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Question 603-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Before I recognize the Minister for DPW, Mr. Gargan , you have to repeat your question to another Minister. Mr. Gargan .

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Question 604-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my question to the Minister of DPW, Mr. Morin . Mr. Morin is aware that an arrangement for leasing space was made between the Hay River reserve and the Department of Social Services. A letter of commitment was already sent before Christmas with regard to that arrangement. At that time, the letter indicated that the arrangement is referred to DPW for them to assess the space and cost and to finalize the agreement. I would like to ask the Minister if his department has consulted with the reserve on that lease. Thank you.

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Question 604-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Question 604-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know if my department has consulted with the reserve on this lease. The normal procedures is, once we are requested by the department to supply a lease, we consult with the people who would be supplying the building. Thank you.

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Question 604-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan .

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Question 604-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Is the Minister taking the question as notice?

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Question 604-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Morin .

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Question 604-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you. Okay, yes.

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Question 604-12(3): Lease Arrangements For Social Worker On Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. The Minister is taking the question as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan , new question.

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Question 605-12(3): Emergency Measures Equipment For Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have been going over all the questions I have asked and my intention is to bring them up every Friday, when they have not been responded to. My other question is to the Deputy Government Leader, Mr. Pollard , and it is with regard to emergency communication equipment for the reserve. I raised that question two weeks ago and I would like to ask the Minister whether arrangements have been made for the reserve to obtain that equipment in the event of a flood. Thank you.

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Question 605-12(3): Emergency Measures Equipment For Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Member for Hay River .

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Return To Question 605-12(3): Emergency Measures Equipment For Hay River Reserve

Question 605-12(3): Emergency Measures Equipment For Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1212

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think the question is: Will the reserve have equipment for emergency communications during the spring break-up? The answer to that is, yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in previous years, there has been equipment loaned to the reserve from the emergency measures people in Yellowknife with the Government of the Northwest Territories. At times, there has been some leasing of radios so the reserve could have communication. What has been happening is that the government and the reserve have been working together under the JEPP program to access federal funds so the reserve would have ownership of some communication equipment.

Yes, they will have communication equipment, whether or not the funding has come through from the federal government with regard to buying their own, I do not know. Thank you.

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Return To Question 605-12(3): Emergency Measures Equipment For Hay River Reserve

Question 605-12(3): Emergency Measures Equipment For Hay River Reserve

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Dent .

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Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for Government Services . I am interested in the tendering practices being used by hamlets across the Northwest Territories. There are indications they may be inconsistent and, perhaps, not providing the best value for money in the expenditure of government funds. Does the department review tender specifications for major capital purchases by hamlets?

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Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, we do not review the contracts. Thank you.

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Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For clarification, is the Minister saying that the department does not monitor the tendering process at all, to ensure capital items purchased are with GNWT funds, or that the purchases are appropriate, adequate and represent the best value for money spent?

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Supplementary To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I said we do not review the tendering. We do not review the actual tender with hamlets, but we do monitor them. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister just indicated that the department does monitor the tender awards. Perhaps he could outline how this monitoring takes place to ensure that funds expended by non tax-based municipalities are, indeed, administered fairly.

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Supplementary To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The monitoring is done by the contracts division of the Department of Government Services and Public Works. Contracts let by hamlets are supposed to be used in the business incentive policy. My understanding is, Cabinet direction was that anyone receiving $.51 on a dollar from this government will use the business incentive policy. In the communication with the hamlets, through MACA, instead of the word "will," it says "may." There is some discretion that has to be cleared up. It will be cleared up in a very short period of time. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is there a process in place for the department to review the items which are purchased by non tax-based municipalities? For instance, if a municipality does not have the expertise to notice that a water truck, which they specified should have a stainless steel tank, is delivered with a steel tank, is there a process in place to ensure that kind of inspection takes place so municipalities are not being stuck with inferior products which will have to be then replaced much more quickly?

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Supplementary To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Supplementary To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not know the exact process of how that is handled, so I will take that as notice and get back to the Member.

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Supplementary To Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Question 606-12(3): Tendering Practices Of Municipalities

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

The question has been taken as notice. Item 5, oral questions. Member for Thebacha .

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Question 607-12(3): Assistance To Fort Smith Elder To Publish Book

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Culture and Communications. An elder in my constituency has completed a book. I have been trying to find out how she can receive assistance in getting this book published. It is a native elderly women who is trying to get this book published. Is there any type of program or funding assistance, through his department, that would assist the native woman to public this book? Thank you.

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Question 607-12(3): Assistance To Fort Smith Elder To Publish Book

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Return To Question 607-12(3): Assistance To Fort Smith Elder To Publish Book

Question 607-12(3): Assistance To Fort Smith Elder To Publish Book

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1213

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe there might be some financial resources which could be accessed. However, if I could ask the honourable Member to give me the details and the person who we could contact to assist that individual to access, not only territorial government money, but federal financing as well.

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Return To Question 607-12(3): Assistance To Fort Smith Elder To Publish Book

Question 607-12(3): Assistance To Fort Smith Elder To Publish Book

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Member for Thebacha .

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Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am very grateful for that reply. It is unfortunate, sometimes, that we cannot get the same type of reply from other Ministers, but, Mr. Speaker, I have a question to another Minister, the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . I thank the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism for replying with regard to the concerns expressed on the pellet plant, the feasibility study. He indicated they are going into phase II of the study, which involves finding a market for the product and the feasibility of a gasification system.

Would the Minister know the purpose of the feasibility of a gasification system with regard to providing a stable market for these significant portions of the pellets? Thank you.

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Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, it is a question of volume. If there was a gasification plant, it would use considerable amounts of these pellets, which would take up a great deal of the volume of the production by a plant. Break even for a facility would be 40,000 tons per annum. If there was a gasification plant, it would eat up a great deal of that 40,000 tons and make the project viable. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Member for Thebacha .

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Supplementary To Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I see that it is connected to the electricity part of production. Reading further on his reply to oral questions, I recognize that he indicated that. Does the Minister know when the phase II portion of the study will be started and when it will be completed? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I do not know the exact dates, but I would certainly like to see the second part of that feasibility finished by the end of this summer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Member for Thebacha .

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Supplementary To Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I received a letter of support with respect to this pellet plant concept. The town of Fort Smith has certainly supported the idea of it to be considered and to even be located in Fort Smith, because of the inexpensive power rates we are privileged to have. The proximity with regard to the viability of having access to the many trees within our area would also be of significant benefit. Has there been any indication by the department or the government as to the location for this particular pellet plant? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

John Pollard

Hay River

No, Mr. Speaker, there has not, although, I am aware that Fort Smith, since the outset of this study, has been following it very closely. They have made it known to me on many occasions that they are extremely interested in this particular plant. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Question 608-12(3): Feasibility Of A Gasification System - Wood Pellet Project

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Member for Thebacha .

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Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice a further question with respect to the change on the young offenders' facility. The Minister of Justice has indicated many times in this House that he has made many public statements about working closely with aboriginal organizations. The Minister is aware that I tabled a letter in this House jointly signed by the president of the Metis Nation and the chief of the Fort Smith band. This joint correspondence was, in my view, fairly critical of the Minister's plan to change the designation of the young offenders' facility change by his department.

When the Minister made the statement that everyone agrees with this young offenders' facility plan, how does he justify making such a statement when there are concerns from the aboriginal organizations of the community, the town council and the union with regard to this change? Thank you.

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Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1214

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, it was my impression when the management talked with the staff at River Ridge that there was some initial concern, but that they have since come to view it as a challenge and are taking a positive approach to meeting the challenge. For instance, they have asked that we arrange for the staff of River Ridge to attend a young offenders' facility in Strathmore, Alberta that is considered a triple designated facility, to meet with the staff and to see how a facility which has a triple designation operates. They would actually see one that is working. It is my view that the union member who attended the meeting in the presence of my staff

and the staff at River Ridge was of the view that this was the proper course to go to ensure there is stability for the employees at River Ridge, that there is good utilization of the staff there and that the government's attempt to maximize the use of the facility and staff there is a good objective. That was the impression I had, but people, in taking a public stance, at times do not always say what they say privately. So, it is my view that if the members carried on a good discussion with the staff and the union that many of these letters would take on a different tone altogether. Thank you.

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Return To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1215

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Before I recognize the Member for Thebacha , I would like to recognize in the gallery, a former Member of Parliament and also a former Member of the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly, Dave Nickerson.

---Applause

Supplementary, Member for Thebacha .

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Supplementary To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1215

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Whether the Minister is aware of it or not, I did meet with the staff on the past two Sundays in Fort Smith; once with the union in presence and once without. There is no doubt that the staff has direction to make the best of a decision, but I know they are not pleased with having to, what they call, de-program themselves to look after young offenders who have committed serious crimes in the communities.

They have to train themselves and take every security precaution with other young offenders they are now being directed to look after who have open custody and less security, and trying to mix the two programs in one facility. I asked the Minister a question not concerning the staff. I told him the town council is concerned, the band is concerned, the Metis local is concerned, as far as I know even the chamber of commerce is concerned and the union is concerned.

The Minister can come in this House and say, "Everyone agrees with that, everyone agrees with the concept of me moving the facility from a secure to an open custody." How does he justify making that statement after recognizing the type of letters which have been tabled in this House? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1215

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1215

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I need to correct the Member again for now moving the facility from one type of facility to another. We are giving it a triple designation which allows us the flexibility to use it, in large part, either as a secure facility or as an open custody facility.

The letters she mentioned, for instance one that was signed by the president of the Fort Smith Metis local and the Fort Smith native band, contain some inaccurate information. For instance, they say, "We are told that because the facility in Hay River requires some upgrading, and since there is no need for two facilities in the South Slave region, the department proposed to spend thousands of dollars by taking out all the secure facilities at River Ridge in Fort Smith and converting it into an open facility.

It would then spend much more taxpayer's dollars and convert a semi-secure facility in Hay River into a secure facility." Again, I say there is no such thing as a semi-secure facility and there is no statement by this government that suggests we are going to spend thousands of dollars converting facilities. Somebody told these people that, and based on that information -- and if I was told that I would also be concerned.

My point simply is that I do not think these people have had the benefit of accurate information, at least if they have they have chosen to ignore it and would rather get on the bandwagon and raise concerns which are not based on factual information. They suggest that as a government we are not trying to spend taxpayer's money wisely, and that we have no interest in using the staff wisely.

I submit that we are very concerned about the number of empty beds in our facilities. With respect to the taxpayers, we have said to maximize the use of the facilities, we are concerned that the staff, which number 19 at the River Ridge facility, are not being taxed to the level they should because of the low number of inmates. That is not their fault, but we have an obligation to have staff working as fully and efficiently as possible and this initiative we have taken addresses both those things exactly in the interests of the taxpayer. We are not spending any money on renovations.

We are taking existing staff and giving them some security by making sure all of them are going to be working to the full capacity which I am sure they are interested in doing, and that the facility is being used to the full capacity in which it should. Those are the interests of the taxpayer. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1215

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Member for Thebacha .

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Supplementary To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1215

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the Minister has indicated they are trying to justify the use of the facility with the low number of beds to try to make it more flexible, and I recognize that. However, at the same time the Minister must recognize that under the Young Offenders Act, it is questionable whether he is following that particular legislation, not only under territorial legislation but under federal legislation with the Canada Corrections Act which looks after young offenders who commit serious crimes, such as murders. The territorial Young Offenders Act looks after minor crimes, break and enters and liquor offence crimes.

I do not know whether the spirit and intent of trying to utilize a facility, mixing these two types of young offenders, who have committed two very serious types of crimes together under one facility, is doing justice to the young offenders.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister has stated there would be no extra funds for renovations. Can he commit, in this House, that he as the Minister will ensure there will be no supplementary funding requests, no additional funding to renovate that secure facility to house young offenders under open custody? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1215

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I have said we are not going to spend money. The Member continues to interrupt and I think her constituents would probably ask her to be polite and listen when she asks a question so she can get a good response. I would suggest that she try to pick up a good habit. It is a good habit to pick up, she should practice it.

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Further Return To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Kakfwi , could you stick to answering the question. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I do not mind answering questions. However, I do not like to be interrupted and hassled by the Member for Thebacha . She asks me a question and then she does not listen.

In response to the question, the department has no intention to spend money to take those physical characteristics of the River Ridge facility which make it a closed custody facility and convert it to an open custody facility. The government has designated River Ridge as a facility which can also be used as an open custody facility. We also keep the designation as a closed custody facility with River Ridge. So, in response to the Member's concerns and those of her chief and Metis leader in Fort Smith, there is no intention to do away with the secure facility in River Ridge.

We are simply saying that along with being an open custody facility there is a secure facility, and we will also use it as an open custody facility. The facility can be used as an open custody facility. The staff have and will have the training capabilities of giving us that flexibility. There is no intention on my part to spend money to diminish the capabilities of that facility or the one in Hay River. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, if anyone does not listen in this House it is the Minister. When Members bring up concerns he goes all around the question, he never answers the question. I will ask him again. Since the Minister indicated in this House that he said, there will be no structural changes, there will be no additional money, and awhile ago he said he has to retrain the staff, so therefore, there is additional money.

However, he said there would be no additional funding requested to make a structural change of that building to house young offenders in an open custody setting because now it looks after young offenders in a secure custody. Can the Minister assure this House that he will ask for no supplementary dollars in the budget in the future, he will ask for no additional funding in any way whether it is through special warrant, supplementary or interactivity transfers in the budget to ensure that he modifies that facility to accommodate the spirit and intent of legislation to look after open custody?

Will he make that commitment? It is a simple yes or no, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I cannot determine what my needs are going to be over the course of the next year. She is asking me to make a commitment not to do something when I have no intentions of making such a suggestion in the first place. It is kind of an awkward question. As I have said, I have no intention of spending capital money to make the secure facility in Fort Smith, to take the physical characteristics and change them so that it could be then seen, at least visually, as an open custody facility. It is still a secure facility. It will stay a secure facility.

We have also designated it as a facility which can be used for open custody. That is the point I think the Member is missing. Because of that, the question becomes irrelevant.

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Further Return To Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Question 609-12(3): Consultation With Fort Smith Groups Re River Ridge Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, to turn to a broader concern, I have a question for the Minister responsible for Public Works . I understand the Minister will be travelling to Russia and Yakutsk next month. Would the Minister like to inform us of the purpose of this visit?

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Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The intention is to go to Yakutsk and then to Moscow. I have not decided whether I am going. I am supposed to go and I am supposed to leave around April 20. I have not confirmed that yet. The reason for going there is to meet with Minister Turov and the Russian delegation to continue to assist the northern companies who are working over there. The people from Yakutsk have an exchange with our government. They were here last week and now it is our turn to go over there. Thank you.

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Return To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

The Minister said he is uncertain yet about his plan. However, something like this is usually planned ahead and you are able to work out the details. He is a brave man, he has been in business, he is a risk taker, I know he goes on the big lake with his boat and he has even been known to go up the Ingraham Trail.

---Laughter

I would like to ask the Minister, what size of delegation will he be taking with him to Yakutsk and Moscow?

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Supplementary To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1216

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will leave my guns at home. I am not sure of the size of the delegation. I am not sure how many people we will take. I am not sure where we will go, when we will be there, all I know is that I have blocked out from April 20 to 30 as a time I am available to travel. I am waiting word from Yakutsk. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

I have had two vague answers to the first questions I have asked, Mr. Speaker. I am assuming that this will go ahead and that it must have been part of the planning when this was first put together. What would be the benefits to the people of the Northwest Territories from undertaking such a trip? The Minister mentioned there were several companies doing business in the old Soviet Union. I would like to ask him to give us a bit more detail about who they are and what kind of help he can give them.

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Supplementary To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The benefits to the north would be jobs. Ferguson Simek Clark is working over there. They are the ones who designed the village. Also, Clark-Bowler is working over there, there are other subcontractors from the north, as well, but I do not know the names of them all. I know there is an electrical company from Yellowknife that is working over there. My understanding is when you deal with these people that they prefer to deal between government and government, and that is why we are involved in it. Thank you.

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Return To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Final supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Since this Minister takes his job seriously and since he has indicated that to do business in the Soviet Union, it is absolutely essential that the government play the role in putting together some kind of cooperative venture between companies, will the Minister give this House his assurance that he will take his job seriously, and play the role that the people in the part of the world where we are doing business expect him to undertake as a lead Minister in this government?

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Supplementary To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take my job seriously.

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Further Return To Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Question 610-12(3): Purpose Of Visit To Yakutsk And Moscow

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson .

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Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of NWT Contractors Operating In Ussr

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if my honourable college for Yellowknife Centre was asking the previous questions tongue in cheek because it is a Friday. However, since he seemed to be questioning the value of economic relations with Yakutsk, which companies resident in his constituency are largely benefitting from, I would like to ask the Minister of Public Works if he could tell this House the approximate value in American dollars of the contracts secured by Ferguson Simek Clark to build a small village near the city of Yakutsk. Thank you.

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Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of NWT Contractors Operating In Ussr

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Return To Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of Nwt Contractors Operating In Ussr

Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of NWT Contractors Operating In Ussr

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the assistance of this government, the Department of Public Works and the Government Leader 's office, Ferguson Simek Clark managed to get a contract in US dollars for $25 million to build that village. Thank you.

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Return To Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of Nwt Contractors Operating In Ussr

Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of NWT Contractors Operating In Ussr

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson .

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Supplementary To Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of Nwt Contractors Operating In Ussr

Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of NWT Contractors Operating In Ussr

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the honourable Minister inform this House whether there may be other contracts of that magnitude being let by the Republic of Sakha in the future? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of Nwt Contractors Operating In Ussr

Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of NWT Contractors Operating In Ussr

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of Nwt Contractors Operating In Ussr

Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of NWT Contractors Operating In Ussr

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My understanding is that right now Ferguson Simek Clark is the low bid on other work over there. As well, there is potential for more villages, hospitals, schools, nursing stations and recreation facilities. People from Yakutsk are coming here and using Canadian contractors and Northwest Territories contractors because of the technology developed in the north over the past 20 years in construction. They are very impressed with it and they want to continue to use it. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of Nwt Contractors Operating In Ussr

Question 611-12(3): Financial Benefit Of NWT Contractors Operating In Ussr

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

The Deputy Speaker

Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Member for Thebacha .

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Question 612-12(3): Supplementary Funding For Changes To River Ridge

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 1217

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance . The Minister of Justice has indicated to this House that there will be no structural changes to the young

offenders' facilities, whether they be in Hay River or Fort Smith. Knowing there will be no structural changes and the cost will not be any more, can I ask the Minister of Finance to assure this House that there will be no supplementary estimates and no special warrants in regard to additional funding expended for structural changes required to accommodate both secure and open custody? Thank you.

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Question 612-