Debates of Sept. 16th, 1992

This is page numbers 941 - 970 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was housing .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Meeting Of The Committee Of Political Leaders

Federal Social Housing Budget Cuts

Federal Social Housing Budget Cuts Moved To Committee Of The Whole

Hon. S. Kakfwi's Manner Of Response

Ministers' Responses On Community Transfer Program

Federal Initiative On Aboriginal Justice

Additional Classrooms For Cape Dorset School

Member's Statement Regarding Culture In The School System

The Patterson Sawmill

Member's Statement Congratulating The Hon. S. Kakfwi

Community Docks And Wharves

Return To Oral Question O606-12(2): Makivik Corporation Acting For N.W.T. Inuit On Great Whale Project

Return To Oral Question O710-12(2): Court Administration Costs On Appeals

Return To Oral Question O771-12(2): Admission Requirements For Teacher Training At Arctic College Campuses

Return To Oral Question O776-12(2): Flood Damage Funding

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O781-12(2): G.n.w.t. Policies On Northern Preference

Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Question O784-12(2): Contact For Assistance To Upgrade Homes

Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Question O790-12(2): Public Accounts' Recommendation Of Strengthening Roles Of Deputy Minister And Comptroller General

Question O791-12(2): Status Of Deputy Ministers

Question O792-12(2): Law For Mandatory Use Of Life Jackets

Question O793-12(2): Recruitment Of Northerners For Kiosk

Question O794-12(2): Minister's Response To Question On Feasibility Study

Question O795-12(2): Reimbursement For Costs Of Search

Question O796-12(2): Special Needs Facility For Kitikmeot Region

Question O797-12(2): Status Of Northern Accord

Committee Report 18-12(2): Report Of The Special Committee On Constitutional Reform On The Multilateral Meetings On The Constitution And First Ministers' - Aboriginal Leaders' Conferences On The Constitution

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Housing Needs Survey 1992 To Committee Of The Whole

Amendment To Sitting Hours

Housing Needs Survey 1992 To Committee Of The Whole

Amendment To Sitting Hours

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Tabled Document 89-12(2): Housing Needs Survey 1992

Item 20: Report Of The Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo , Mr. Antoine , Mr. Arngna'naaq , Hon. James Arvaluk , Hon. Michael Ballantyne , Mr. Bernhardt , Hon. Nellie Cournoyea , Mr. Dent , Mr. Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Hon. Don Morin , Mr. Nerysoo , Mr. Ningark , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Mr. Todd , Hon. Tony Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 941

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Before we commence with the orders of the day, I would like to bring to the attention of the House, my response to the point of privilege raised by Mr. Nerysoo on September 15.

The point of privilege raised by Mr. Nerysoo on September 15, on remarks made by the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi during his reply to an oral question by Mr. Nerysoo , as I have reviewed the unedited transcripts, and I find that the Honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta , Mr. Nerysoo , does not have prima facie point of privilege.

However, my review of the exchange between the honourable Members led me to conclude that an important principle is at issue here. A Member's duties and responsibilities, on behalf of his or her constituents, is for each Member to decide on their own. It is not for any Member to interpret for another Member how he or she must carry out their duties. I trust that in future, all honourable Members will respect that principle. Thank you.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Minister's Statement 89-12(2): Meeting Of The Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 941

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Committee of Political Leaders met last night to discuss the reactions of their constituents to the report from the Commission for Constitutional Development, and to consider options for how to proceed from here. The following were present representing their respective organizations: Messrs. Roger Gruben, President, of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation; National Chief Bill Erasmus, Dene Nation; Gary Bohnet, President, Metis Nation; Willard Hagen, President, Gwich'in Tribal Council; George Cleary, President, Sahtu Tribal Council; and, Chief Eddie Erasmus, Dogrib Rae Band. M.L.A.

Charles Dent , Yellowknife Frame Lake, represented the Legislative Assembly, and I was there for the government. While not Members of the Committee, M.L.A. Henry Zoe , North Slave, was also in attendance, as were Chief James Ross, Fort McPherson; Chief Eugene Pascal, Aklavik; Chief Peter Ross, Arctic Red River; and, Chief Everett Kakfwi, Fort Good Hope.

All parties reported that their memberships were generally comfortable with, and supportive of, the directions recommended by the commission. They also noted that, for most communities, the focus right now is on community transfers and self-government at both the community, and regional level. Developing a constitution for a territorial government, for a western territory, and for all residents, remains a priority. However, there was general agreement that an initial focus on models for self-government, at the community and regional level would inevitably lead to the development of models for a territorial government soon after.

It was agreed that the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation would draft an initial work plan, and an interim budget, for the consideration of other members based on the above principles, and on the assumption that the national constitutional package, now before Canadians, will succeed. Other members would then have an opportunity to review the work plan and suggest amendments, with the hope that, before this session of the Legislative Assembly is complete, they would be in a position to table a document in the House for your consideration.

Members of the commission had the opportunity to present their report at the annual assemblies of most of the aboriginal organizations this summer. I tabled the commission's report in the Assembly last June with the intention that this House would be able to take the time to discuss it, in committee of the whole, later this session.

Should you make this choice, the members of the committee would welcome the opportunity to come before this House to present their assessment of the commission's report, and to outline their goals and objectives for the coming months.

I was impressed with the enthusiasm and the commonality of purpose expressed by all members of the committee. I believe it is very worthwhile to encourage this momentum by inviting the members to present their views, and to table before us a proposal for a work plan to get on with the important business of constitutional development for a western territory. It is my strong impression that, while regional and aboriginal institutions have become an important part of the political landscape, there remains an expressed commitment to a public government for all people of a western territory.

In doing so, we should recognize the support and the desire expressed by members, on behalf of their constituents, that the work must begin with the community first. The community transfer initiative offers communities and regions not only the chance to develop plans for self-government, but to begin to take on greater powers and responsibilities right now. Members of the committee see the community transfer initiative as an interim step towards self-government, and they will support the initiative so long as it remains broad and flexible. They made it very clear that a centrally driven process, narrow in scope and ladened with pre-conditions, will not meet the needs of their communities.

Mr. Speaker, while this statement has focused on community transfers and self-government in the western Northwest Territories, I wish to make it very clear that the east has not been left behind. Already five eastern communities, and the Keewatin Regional Council, have informed us that they wish to begin discussions on community transfers soon.

I want to thank each committee member for the positive attitude they brought to our discussions last night, and I urge the Members of the House to give serious thought to their proposals. I want to also extend a special thanks to the six commissions chaired by Mr. Jim Bourque, for their efforts in setting forth a foundation from which we can all build.

Thank you.

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Minister's Statement 89-12(2): Meeting Of The Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 942

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I would like to recognize, in the gallery, Chief James Firth from Inuvik, and Chief Peter Ross from Arctic Red River.

---Applause

I also would like to recognize in the visitor's gallery, Mr. Tony Campbell, and his grade 11 class from St. Patrick's High School.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin .

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Minister's Statement 89-12(2): Meeting Of The Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 942

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to give an emergency statement.

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Minister's Statement 89-12(2): Meeting Of The Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 942

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Proceed, Mr. Morin .

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Minister's Statement 90-12(2): Federal Social Housing Budget Cuts

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 942

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation , I have received distressing news that the submission put forward by the Honourable Elmer MacKay, seeking reinstatement of federal funding for the new social housing units in the Northwest Territories, has been rejected by the federal Cabinet.

In February, 1992, in his budget speech, the federal Minister of Finance announced major reductions in the federal social housing programs right across Canada. These reductions would hold growth of the federal social housing budget to a maximum of three percent increase with no allowance for inflation. The cost of inflation must be funded from within the three percent growth factor. Reducing the funding available for new social housing construction by 23 percent in 1992, and a further 36 percent in 1993, for a total of 59 percent.

The impact of these federal funding reductions here in the Northwest Territories was to drastically reduce our cost shared new social housing units. There was 372 units built last year, and by 1993 the Government of the Northwest Territories will be funded to build 153 cost shared units.

I wanted to assure Members that we have continued to work to get the federal funding reinstated to its former levels. When I met with the Standing Committee on Finance, I told Members that we were engaged in serious and intense negotiations with the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation. These efforts began right after the cuts were announced in the federal budget in April. I intended a special meeting of provincial and territorial housing Ministers to discuss the implications of the cuts. I also appeared before the Aboriginal Affairs Committee of the House of Commons in May.

We found them supportive of our needs. This was followed in June by a meeting between myself and federal Minister responsible for the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the Honourable Elmer MacKay. Minister MacKay listened carefully to what we had to say about our unique situation in the Northwest Territories, and we were able to convince him that our needs were urgent. Also, in June, I had a meeting of the federal, provincial and territorial housing Ministers.

I urged the federal Minister and my colleagues in other jurisdictions, to recognize the unique and urgent housing requirements of the Northwest Territories. We got a positive and supportive response at that meeting. The federal Minister responsible for the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the Honourable Elmer MacKay, made a submission to the federal Cabinet to address the funding shortage for new housing construction for the Northwest Territories, and the Yukon, on a priority basis. If approved, funding to the Northwest Territories would have been reinstated to the 1991-92 levels.

Unfortunately, although we were able to convince the federal Minister responsible for the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the Honourable Elmer MacKay, the federal Cabinet did not support the submission because there was no additional funding available.

Mr. Speaker, although I see this as a serious setback, I am still hopeful that further efforts on the part of this government will result in funding reinstatement. You will recall the federal government initially rejected us supplying the Business Incentive Policy to cost shared housing contracts. Our continuous efforts were finally successful in having Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation accept the Business Incentive Policy. The same may be possible in this case.

I am continuing my discussions with Mr. MacKay, and we are also pursuing this through the Government Leader directly with the Prime Minister, and with the other provinces, and the Yukon, who are all also seriously affected by the federal cuts.

In addition, I will work with Members to complete the development of the strategy to deal with potential of no federal funding being reinstated. The efforts today were concentrated on convincing the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation, and Mr. MacKay, on our need for funding, and to have the federal funding submission put forward. The strategy being developed will maximize the new unit delivery within the funding available, while recognizing that the level of service, and the number of new units, may have to decrease from today's levels.

Later on today, I will be tabling the 1992 Housing Needs Survey. The survey confirms that housing needs are continuing to grow in the Northwest Territories, and this provides us with additional information to use in our efforts to have federal cuts reinstated.

Mr. Speaker, although the news today is bad, I will continue to work to change the federal position, and will keep all Members of this Assembly informed of our progress. I would appreciate receiving input from the Members to this Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Minister's Statement 90-12(2): Federal Social Housing Budget Cuts

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 942

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Ministers' statements. Mr. Koe .

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Minister's Statement 90-12(2): Federal Social Housing Budget Cuts Moved To Committee Of The Whole

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 942

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a motion and move, seconded by the honourable Member from North Slave , that Minister's Statement 90-12(2) Federal Social Housing Budget Cuts, be moved into committee of the whole.

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Minister's Statement 90-12(2): Federal Social Housing Budget Cuts Moved To Committee Of The Whole

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 942

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Motion is in order, Mr. Koe , to the motion, Mr. Koe .

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Minister's Statement 90-12(2): Federal Social Housing Budget Cuts Moved To Committee Of The Whole

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 943

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Question.

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Minister's Statement 90-12(2): Federal Social Housing Budget Cuts Moved To Committee Of The Whole

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 943

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Ministers' statements. Members' statement. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Hon. S. Kakfwi's Manner Of Response

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 943

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today with the direction from the Ordinary Members' Caucus. Mr. Speaker, this House, including the Government Leader , should never tolerate disrespectful manners, and disrespect for the rules and practice of this House, which was demonstrated by a Member of the Cabinet. Mr. Speaker, what I am speaking about, is the manner in which Mr. Kakfwi dealt with a question posed by Mr. Gargan . Mr. Speaker, this House, or this side of the House, will not tolerate arrogance, or the insulting inconsideration given to Mr. Gargan 's view, which is a serious issue.

Or for that matter, issues raised by all Members, including in some instances, issues raised by Members of Cabinet. Mr. Speaker, the rules are clear on answering of questions. All Members are obliged to follow the practices, and respect of decorum, of this House, by rising to answer a question. Mr. Speaker, we own this side of the House, and know that trying to bend the rules is a fact of life, but complete ignorance should not, and will not, be tolerated. Mr. Speaker, we respect the right of the Minister to decide how or when he or she answers, but Mr.

Speaker, as honourable Members, this side of the House will not tolerate the arrogance, aloofness, and disrespect that has been shown by Mr. Kakfwi when responding to a question, and the manner in which he dealt with Mr. Gargan . You can be assured we will deal with the continued existence of this type of attitude appropriately, and with dispatch if necessary. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Hon. S. Kakfwi's Manner Of Response

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 943

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements, Mr. Todd .

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Ministers' Responses On Community Transfer Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 943

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I must tell the House today that I was dismayed by the way the Minister for Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs answered yesterday's questions about the transfer of government programs and services to community self-government. I checked the unedited transcript just this morning to see if I had actually heard the Minister correctly. His response to my honourable colleagues from Inuvik and MacKenzie Delta essentially let us know that in eight and a half months, there has been no substantive progress towards establishing community transfer initiatives.

From what I understood from the Minister's comments, all that has been accomplished has been a partial completion of a draft implementation strategy, and we hear that, and I quote, "a rather high level deputy minister's committee has philosophical or political differences, and is to blame for this." I have the Minister attributing the delay, and this initiative, to the honourable Members in this House, simply because we want to review and approve the media report recommendations on the Minister's implementation plan. Mr. Speaker, that is our job.

When the Minister comes forward with the implementation details we will review them then, but it is not the fault of the Members on this side of the House that he decided to sit by and watch his rather high level deputy ministers run the show for the last eight and a half months, and then blame them for it.

Mr. Speaker, I can readily understand that in seven parts of the Northwest Territories there are going to be difficult constitutional matters, and philosophical differences, that we will need to form for part of the process leading up to community transfers. I fully support the Metis and Dene leaders in their desire to work these out, as they progress towards community or aboriginal self-government. In the east, Mr. Speaker, we have accepted the principle of public government for the last 20 years. Many of our communities are ready for community self-government now.

This is the process that will power us towards the constitutional emergence of Nunavut. We cannot, and will not, allow the goal to be put on hold. The Minister should bring forward a paper, so that this House can move forward in reviewing it, and consulting with our community leaders. Thank you.

---Applause

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Ministers' Responses On Community Transfer Program

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 943

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Members' statements. Mr. Gargan .

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Federal Initiative On Aboriginal Justice

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 943

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have already spoken on two occasions regarding the federal government's initiatives on aboriginal justice and justice administration. I am concerned about the way the decision was made by the federal Minister of Justice to appoint the Northwest Territories Chief Crown Counsel as Director General for the Council on Aboriginal Justice and Administration.

When she was questioned on April 8 about her judgement in making this appointment, the Honourable Kim Campbell told the House of Commons that "when I was in Yellowknife in September with the federal/provincial meetings of Ministers responsible for Justice, I had the opportunity to see how this individual was received in his community and how he was regarded by aboriginals and women in that community." Mr. Speaker, I have personally reviewed the agenda and list of participants who attended the federal/provincial meetings. There were no aboriginal women in the final list of delegates from the Northwest Territories.

Department of Justice personnel have confirmed that the public input during the federal/provincial meetings was nil. No public organizations were invited to contribute. On February 25, 1992 I was asked by our former Minister of Justice , the Honourable Dennis Patterson , about this appointment. He has responded that he was generally aware of Mr. Avison's departure but was not precisely sure of his irresponsibilities. This response does not make me think that the Minister had been involved in government to government consultations surrounding Mr. Avison's April appointment.

Aboriginal people in the north and throughout Canada have waited a long time for the federal government to begin to address the many outstanding issues that surround the treatment of our people by the justice system. As a major stakeholder in any review of aboriginal justice, I would hope that our government would take the lead role in monitoring and providing input to the current federal initiative.

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Federal Initiative On Aboriginal Justice

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 943

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Gargan , your allotted time has elapsed.

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Federal Initiative On Aboriginal Justice

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 943

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I get unanimous consent to complete the last paragraph?

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Federal Initiative On Aboriginal Justice

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 943

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan .

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Federal Initiative On Aboriginal Justice

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 943

Samuel Gargan

Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, honourable Members. This could include ensuring that key figures in the projects have demonstrated the sensitivity, understanding and

credibility required to carry out that task. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Federal Initiative On Aboriginal Justice

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize in the visitor's gallery Mr. Willard Hagen, President of the Gwich'in Tribal Council; Chief James Ross of Fort McPherson; Chief Eugene Pascal from Aklavik; and Mr. Robert Alexi, Jr., the Vice-President of the Gwich'in Tribal Council. Welcome.

---Applause

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Federal Initiative On Aboriginal Justice

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Pudlat .

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Additional Classrooms For Cape Dorset School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question that I would like to direct to the Minister of Education in regard to the Cape Dorset school. There is a proposal for the school in Cape Dorset. They are going to renovate or expand the school, and they are going to put in four new classrooms, but the teachers would like to see five classrooms.

The school in Cape Dorset is proposing that there should be five classes added every year. In 1986 to 1992, the population has grown in Cape Dorset. There were 44 new students that were born in 1986 and went into Kindergarten in 1992. So, for the school year 1992-93, the population will also have grown, and for the year 1993-94, there will be an increase in the population, and as well, there will also be an increase for the years 1994-95, and 1995-96. Because of this, in Cape Dorset, they are requesting more classrooms for the school. So, I would like the Minister of Education to think about this request. Thank you.

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Additional Classrooms For Cape Dorset School

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Member's Statement Regarding Culture In The School System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is unfortunate my colleague, Mr. Gargan , is not in the House, but Mr. Speaker, I did want to make a statement in respect to some of the comments that were made yesterday. I, as a Member of this House, certainly feel that it is critical that the component of cultural programs remain within the school system.

I have been reading a small notebook called the "Fiddle and the Sash" which was produced from the history of the Metis of the Northwest Territories. With that, there is a part of education in the church which I would like to read to the Members. I think it reflects some of the reasons why we, as Members, are going to pay respects to the late Bishop Piche tomorrow. It states:

"Until the 1950s most Metis children were schooled by the Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches. The churches ran residential and day schools with the financial assistance of the federal government. In the 1920s there were seven schools in the Mackenzie Valley. Children stayed in residence in the schools from grades one to nine, learning the basics of education, religion, skills such as: sewing; gardening; and wood crafts.

Several former students showing the oblates of Mary Immaculate, O.M.I. and the Grey Nuns, have devoted their lives to the people of the north: Father Napoleon Lafferty; Patrick Mercredi; Sister Delilah Burke; Annie Cooper; Alice Delorme; Anne Mercredi; Agnes Sutherland; and Louise Tourangeau.

Many of the Metis Anglican students later served as lay readers and catechists for northern congregations. Sarah Stewart Simon along with her Gwich'in husband, the Reverend James Simon, ministered the Anglican faith to their people. Sarah, now at the age of 90, has served the church as catechist, interpreter, Sunday School teacher and organist. For her many years of religious dedication and service as midwife, she was awarded the Order of Canada in the fall of 1991."

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Member's Statement Regarding Culture In The School System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mrs. Marie-Jewell , your allotted time has expired.

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Member's Statement Regarding Culture In The School System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I ask for unanimous consent to continue.

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Member's Statement Regarding Culture In The School System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays, please continue, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Member's Statement Regarding Culture In The School System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you. Thank you, honourable colleagues. I think that it is of critical importance that the component of culture be instilled within our children, within our students of our school system from as early an age as possible. Whether it be the parents, the teachers, whatever educators that may assist, I believe that parents will gratefully appreciate it. Thank you.

---Applause

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Member's Statement Regarding Culture In The School System

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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The Patterson Sawmill

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 944

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to tell the House of the concern about the activities of Patterson's Sawmill. On March 3, I asked the Minister, the Honourable John Pollard , about the purchase of the Patterson Sawmill in Hay River and he stated, and I quote: "It was not a government decision, although it is my responsibility and I will take full responsibility for it."

I asked him about the number of trees required to run this mill, he indicated it was six to eight million board feet per year, and later on indicated that it would take about 10,000 to 12,000 trees per million board feet.

You are looking at approximately 96,000 trees to be cut this year. I am concerned because you stated very clearly that no logging would occur in the Liard/Nahanni Valley unless the communities and the people of that area are in agreement and in full cooperation.

I am very concerned because the Patterson Sawmill filed an application for a land use permit to cut timber in the area traditionally used by the Dene of Jean Marie River. There was no prior consultation. This application contradicts the assurance that the Minister provided to this House on March 9.

The people of that region are opposed to letting the Patterson Development Corporation operation into that area. There are a number of reasons for the opposition, it is a traditional hunting and trapping area, and one of the main points is that the Patterson Sawmill was previously in that area, before the development corporation took over, and the previous logging in the area was extremely dissatisfactory because of their logging methods. The job, the clean up, a lot of it was left behind.

There is some concern that this may happen again. The area in question, Deep Lake and McGill Lake, are the head waters of Jean Marie River and it is very harmful to fish from the lakes there, for the people around there.

The Jean Marie River Council has passed a resolution against this application. What I would like to say is that I am representing my constituency here, and am opposed to this application.

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The Patterson Sawmill

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 945

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Antoine , your allotted time has lapsed.

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The Patterson Sawmill

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 945

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

I seek unanimous consent to conclude.

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The Patterson Sawmill

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 945

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

The Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays, please proceed.

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The Patterson Sawmill

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 945

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will be calling on the Minister to respect the community of Jean Marie River and also his own promise to the House, by directing the N.W.T. Development Corporation and Patterson Sawmill to withdraw Patterson Sawmill's land use application, so that we can deal with this situation in a more consultative manner. Thank you.

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The Patterson Sawmill

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 945

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe .

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Member's Statement Congratulating The Hon. S. Kakfwi

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 945

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to congratulate the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi , Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs on his successful meetings yesterday with the political leaders. I also would like to thank the Minister for meeting with the Delta and Gwich'in leaders, and the action which he will be taking in dealing with community concerns raised by those leaders on community initiatives. Mahsi Cho.

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Member's Statement Congratulating The Hon. S. Kakfwi

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 945

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark .

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Community Docks And Wharves

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 945

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My Member's statement is regarding the community docks and wharfs. I will be speaking in my language.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hunters in the communities all utilize boats because we know that there are high and low tides, with very heavy low tides and the weather itself is unreliable. The hunters, themselves, use their own canoes and they use big and small boats all the time. Canoes are very expensive to buy, especially for those who are unemployed. The outboard motors are very expensive, also.

People that do hunt with the canoes and big boats should have docks, if docks are available.

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Community Docks And Wharves

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 945

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Oral Question O606-12(2): Makivik Corporation Acting For N.W.T. Inuit On Great Whale Project

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 945

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, this is in response to a question asked by Mr. Todd on June 22, 1992. This is in response to a question asked about Makivik Corporation acting for N.W.T. Inuit on the Great Whale Project of Quebec.

I have since written to Mr. Todd informing him that the Minister of Renewable Resources, and his officials are actively pursuing direct funding from the federal government for N.W.T. intervenor status to participate in the environmental assessment of this project.

I am certain that the Minister of Renewable Resources , the Honourable Titus Allooloo , will be pleased to keep Members informed of progress.

Mr. Speaker, I have another.

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Return To Oral Question O606-12(2): Makivik Corporation Acting For N.W.T. Inuit On Great Whale Project

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 945

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Proceed, Mr. Kakfwi .

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Return To Oral Question O710-12(2): Court Administration Costs On Appeals

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 945

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

This is in response to a question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on June 29. This is in regard to court costs when judgement is overturned.

The judgement of the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories, when these judgements are overturned on appeal, and new trials are required, the court administration costs are the responsibility of the Department of Justice.

Thank you.

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Return To Oral Question O710-12(2): Court Administration Costs On Appeals

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 945

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Arvaluk .

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Return To Oral Question O771-12(2): Admission Requirements For Teacher Training At Arctic College Campuses

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 945

James Arvaluk

Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Bernhardt on September 15, 1992, concerning the admission requirements for teacher training at Arctic College campuses.

Teacher Education Programs in the Northwest Territories provide an opportunity for northern residents to enter the teaching profession through full time campus or community programs, or part time programs.

Admission requirements for east and west Teacher Education Programs, and their associated community programs, are similar. In both the east and the west, applicants must have a strong desire to work with children, be mature, responsible and reliable, and have graduated from high school or its equivalent.

Applicants in the Eastern Arctic Teacher Education Program must be at least 21 years of age, demonstrate fluency and literacy in Inuktitut, and have a high school graduation or its equivalent. Students who do not have grade 12 may be considered if they have a minimum of grade ten, two years successful experience as a classroom assistant, and a reference from both the principal and the community education council, or if they satisfy E.A.T.E.P. numeracy and literacy requirements.

The Western Arctic Teacher Education Program is --- and the reference from both the principal and the community education council, or if they satisfy each of numeracy and literacy requirements.

The Western Arctic Teacher Education Program is credited through the University of Saskatchewan and the eastern Arctic programs are credited through the McGill University. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Return To Oral Question O771-12(2): Admission Requirements For Teacher Training At Arctic College Campuses

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 946

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I would like to recognize in the gallery, Mr. Randy Rivers and his grade 11 social studies class from St. Patrick High School. Returns to oral questions, Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Oral Question O776-12(2): Flood Damage Funding

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 946

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Nerysoo .

The previous Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs had reviewed the extent of damage in the MacKenzie Delta after this spring's flooding, to determine whether it was appropriate to recommend invoking the Disaster Assistance Policy. After an undertaking of this review, the Minster advised the Premier that, although the MacKenzie Delta did experience flooding, the extent of significant damage was not wide spread to extend necessary to make damage assistance payments.

This decision was based upon the fact that disaster assistance is not meant to provide insurance coverage. It is extraordinary assistance meant to help residents after major damage occurs. It was thought reasonable to assume that individuals should be able to restore their property to its pre-disaster condition without disaster assistance.

Mr. Speaker, I reviewed this matter, I assumed the responsibility for this program, and found that the existing policy does not provide for assistance in this particular situation. Thank you.

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Return To Oral Question O776-12(2): Flood Damage Funding

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 946

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Returns to oral questions. Oral questions, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is posed to the Minister of Renewable Resources . Yesterday, before question period had expired, I was posing questions in regards to the status of the Trans-Boundary Water Agreement.

Mr. Speaker, I asked the Minister in respect to the status of the negotiations, and he basically indicated to this House that the Alberta government has not finalized, or they will not finalize anything, until they conclude an agreement with British Columbia. After reading the unedited Hansard, I find this totally unacceptable, and I would like to ask the Minister of Renewable Resources , does he currently have a time frame, in respect to the negotiating process, to acquire the Trans-Boundary Water Agreement? Thank you.

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Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Return To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Our time frame, at this point, is to have a final agreement by spring of 1993.

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Return To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, he is going to try and acquire one by the spring of 1993. I was told as an M.L.A., well over a year ago, they were going to try and acquire it last year. So, it is going to be two years, taking into consideration there is an abundance of development of pulp mills in the south. Is there any possible way that the Minister can make every effort on his part, to ensure that he speeds up the process, so that we can acquire a Trans-Boundary Water Agreement prior to the spring of 1993? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The problem is that we would like to speed up the process as much as the Member is stating, but the Alberta government will not finalize the agreement until they have a Trans-Boundary Water Agreement between British Columbia and Alberta. The problem there is that they differ, the two governments, British Columbia and Alberta, differ, on levels that are acceptable to put into the agreement. The B.C. government would like to have higher standards in terms of levels going into Alberta.

The Alberta government would like to have lower standards in terms of contaminants going into the province, and they are negotiating at the present time, but it is taking a while to come up with final agreements. The Alberta government has specifically stated that they will not finalize N.W.T and Alberta water agreement until they have an agreement with B.C. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I find it appalling that the Minister will take a back seat to another province, which is B.C., and yet, at the same time, allow all the pollutants to come down into our water, and our rivers. I would like to know whether the Minister can look at another option in respect to negotiating a Trans-Boundary Water Agreement even though Alberta is adamant that they want to acquire one with B.C. first. The Minister has a responsibility for our jurisdiction, and he should take every measure in respect to addressing the concern that we are expressing in this House. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 946

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, I will do my best to represent the Northwest Territories, our residents, and to protect the water quality. The problem here also is that our government, the Government of the Northwest Territories, does not have jurisdictions over lands and water with respect to the waters that are in the Northwest Territories, and to the lands that are Crown lands. The responsibility lies with the Department of Indian Affairs. In terms of our Trans-Boundary Water negotiations, Indian Affairs negotiates on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, in the water quality agreements.

So far, our government has been involved in quite a few committees that monitor the water quality, and also in terms of Environment Canada and putting up stations, monitoring stations, throughout the Northwest Territories. I

believe that we have a dozen committees that we are involved in, but the Government of the Northwest Territories does not have a legislative mandate at this point in respect to water in the Northwest Territories, but the federal government, Indian and Northern Affairs, as well as Environment Canada, and Fisheries and Oceans, have the responsibility in that particular area.

Since we do not have the responsibility or jurisdiction over lands and waters in the Northwest Territories, we do not have legislation at the present time, although our government has been pursuing that responsibility be devolved to our government, from the federal government, for quite some time. We have not been successful, yet. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister if he could advise this House, what is the level of standards that Alberta is willing to accept from B.C., that he is monitoring prior to addressing this issue? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, I would have to take that question as notice, and get back to the Member on the details of the negotiations between the B.C. government and the Alberta government. I will get back to her as soon as I can.

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Further Return To Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Question O780-12(2): Timeframe For Trans-boundary Water Agreement

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Question has been taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Question O781-12(2): G.n.w.t. Policies On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs concerning the economic union proposals contained in the Consensus Report on the constitution agreed to in Charlottetown on August 28, 1992.

Mr. Speaker, as everyone knows, I have long been an outspoken proponent of strong and effective northern preference policies and finally we have had the political will under the current Minister of Public Works , to implement policies which ensure that the majority of G.N.W.T. contracts will be left to northern firms. This allows us to keep our limited resources in the north.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I have become somewhat distressed when I heard reports that these policies will come under attack when provincial and federal Ministers in November discuss inter-provincial trade. I would ask the Minister whether the agreement that we agreed to in Charlottetown, and the economic union proposals contained within it in any way weaken our ability to protect and continue to implement the G.N.W.T.'s policies on northern preference.

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Question O781-12(2): G.n.w.t. Policies On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi . Madam Premier .

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Question O781-12(2): G.n.w.t. Policies On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

Nellie Cournoyea

Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, that was one of the last items that was talked about in Charlottetown, and Mr. Kakfwi had left at that time to come back north to another meeting. When the economic union was being discussed, the initial stage was to put it into the context of the constitution because there were a number of issues that were still outstanding, and the time limit made it just impossible to take into consideration some of the issues that we brought up, such as our ability to retain a Northern Preference Policy.

It was suggested that it would be dealt with at an upcoming conference so that we, as the Northwest Territories, could have our concerns properly addressed. On a number of occasions, at the Western Premiers' Conferences, I brought up the issue of concern, that we have to have the same privileges and protection as the provinces, which they had for 125 years so that they could build their economy.

The western Premiers agreed with us, it is on minutes, that they would support us in maintaining some type of economic percentage that we would be able to develop our economy, and we would have the same privileges that they had in the past. In the conference with all of the First Ministers it was also discussed, this particular concern. It was brought to everyone's attention that we intended to ask to be guaranteed, when we came to the First Ministers' Conference on the Economy, that this specific issue would be addressed, on how the Northwest Territories can maintain the maximum benefits of the few dollars that we have, and it was agreed.

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Question O781-12(2): G.n.w.t. Policies On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Todd . New question, Mr. Ningark .

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Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister responsible for Transportation . Mr. Speaker, I would like to know if the Department of Transportation has any programs or provisions to assist communities in obtaining or acquiring community docks and wharves? Thank you.

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Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the Department of Transportation does have some interest in wharves and docks in most of the communities that are on water. It is in conjunction, of course, with other users, Transport Canada, for example.

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Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Ningark .

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Supplementary To Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to know the procedure and I would like to ask the Minister if the Hunters' and Trappers' Association within my riding, of Pelly Bay, Gjoa Haven, and Spence Bay, could be given the information on how to acquire these things?

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Supplementary To Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 947

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Whitford .

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Further Return To Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we will provide any information that Mr. Ningark will need. I will consult with Mr. Ningark later on the specifics of it, and we will ensure that the hunters and trappers in that area will get a proper answer.

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Further Return To Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Question O782-12(2): Assistance For Obtaining Community Docks

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . Earlier today I reminded the Minister of the commitments he made March 9 about respecting the wishes of communities with respect to logging in the Liard and Nahanni Valley. Can the Minister explain to the House why Patterson Sawmill Enterprise, which was purchased earlier this year by the Government of the Northwest Territories Development Corporation for $1.4 million, has gone ahead and applied for land use permits on August 12 without the prior consultation with the people of Jean Marie River and Fort Simpson? Thank you.

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Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Development Corporation, after having taken over Patterson Sawmill, now owns timber cutting rights in the Jean Marie River area and in the Cameron Hills. Each year, though, there has to be a land use permit if they want to go into those particular areas. There is no intention this year to do any logging in the Jean Marie River area. The intention was to go in there and clean up some of the debris from previous logging in that area.

I would apologize to the Member's constituents for the Development Corporation not having gone in and consulted before hand, and I will endeavour to get somebody down there, as soon as possible, to explain themselves to Jean Marie River.

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Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .

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Supplementary To Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Yes, supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The application calls for new cutting in the Deep Lake and McGill area. Is the Minister aware of it? These areas were not cut before, and that the application indicates that they would like to go in there and log.

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Supplementary To Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker. There will be no cutting of timber this winter in the Jean Marie River area. If the Development Corporation thinks that it is going to do it, by saying this today, I am telling them that they cannot do it. They have not followed, what I consider, the procedure, which is consultation. So, I am making a commitment that there will be no logging. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Question O783-12(2): Application For Land Use Permits By G.n.w.t. Development Corporation

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question O784-12(2): Contact For Assistance To Upgrade Homes

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I could ask the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs . Could the Minister indicate who I should contact, so that I can get the necessary financial support, for home owners who have serious insulation and structural damage, so that they can upgrade their homes to meet the winter conditions?

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Question O784-12(2): Contact For Assistance To Upgrade Homes

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Question O784-12(2): Contact For Assistance To Upgrade Homes

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Member could contact me, give me the details of the damages that occurred during the flooding, and I will review them again.

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Question O784-12(2): Contact For Assistance To Upgrade Homes

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance . In December, in response to a question to the economic proposals contained in the federal government's proposed constitutional package, the Minister stated categorically that he would fight any proposals that would weaken or eliminate the G.N.W.T.'s northern preference policies. Can the Minister tell me if that is still his and the Cabinet's position?

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Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

John Pollard

Hay River

Yes, Mr. Speaker, it is our position. I cannot say that we are not concerned though, about Alberta's position at the present time, which points the gun north, and wants to gun down our Business Incentive Policy. It is of great concern, Madam Premier , and I discussed it this morning, and I will be making some representation to the Government of Alberta in that regard very shortly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you. I understand that there will be a meeting of the provincial and federal Trade Ministers in November and that this policy will come under close scrutiny.

Will the Minister now give his assurances to this House, that he will not agree to any proposals that will adversely affect these important and vital policies without consultation of the Assembly?

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Supplementary To Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

John Pollard

Hay River

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Question O785-12(2): Cabinet's Position On Northern Preference

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 948

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk .

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Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This question is for the Minister of Renewable Resources . The people that hunt big game, such as polar bear and muskox, these sport hunters are taken by guides out to the land to hunt those big game.

I hear that the rates of the permits are going to be increased. What is the fee now for their permits since they have been increased? Thank you.

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Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to sports hunting of polar bear, they have two different permits. They have two different licences that they have to acquire to go sports hunting. In regard to trophy fee, when they shoot a polar bear, they have to pay a trophy fee and the fee this year is about $500, from $250 to $500. Thank you.

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Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Pudluk .

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Supplementary To Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The increase in the fee from big game hunters, will that touch the whole of the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Allooloo .

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Further Return To Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

Titus Allooloo

Amittuq

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This fee increase is for people that hunt polar bears and it is an increase to the trophy fee. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Question O786-12(2): Rate Increase For Big Game Permits

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Justice . There are many small communities within the Northwest Territories that do not have resident R.C.M.P. These communities have expressed their concern about the lack of basic police services for a number of years.

There have been discussions in the House by previous Ministers about developing a program that would train by-law officers or other individuals within the communities to perform some of these R.C.M.P. duties.

Can the Minister advise the House, whether he has taken any action toward developing an initiative to provide increased policing services to communities that do not have resident R.C.M.P.?

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Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, in the only meeting that I have had with people who are in charge of the R.C.M.P. here in the Northwest Territories, I had suggested to them that there are certain communities that have had long outstanding requests to have R.C.M.P. officers put in these specific communities. I pointed to Wrigley as one example, and as well, there was a suggestion that certain communities such as: Grise Fiord; Paulatuk; and Sachs Harbour; among others, who would, as a result of cutbacks, be unable to enjoy the presence of an R.C.M.P. officer.

What I wanted, as a Minister, was some clear indication from the R.C.M.P. as to what is required in order to maintain these positions, when they were being threatened, as well as to replace officers in locations like Wrigley. That was agreed to, as you know. A week ago, the R.C.M.P. indicated that because of savings they have made through the year, they are able to put R.C.M.P. officers back in certain places like, Paulatuk, Sachs Harbour, and one or two other communities, but they are unable, as yet, to respond positively to requests such as Wrigley.

As a result of my lunch meeting with the Gwich'in Council, Arctic Red River has served notice it has also been asking for many years that this type of service should be provided.

It seems to me that once we work out the type of additional funding that the R.C.M.P. may require to staff these positions, and it should be clear what the difficulties are, such as lack of housing, lack of office space, and in some cases, a lack of adequate housing, then the costs become quite substantial.

We are looking at ways in which we could make it more realistic, perhaps, try to present a realistic proposal to Cabinet and then, hopefully, to this Legislature to provide some comfort to communities like Wrigley and Arctic Red River amongst others.

It is my belief as a Minister, that every community, whether or not there is a level of crime reported, should all enjoy the presence of a police officer. This leads to peace within the community and a sense of security, especially for the elders, and the women and children of that community. The matter is simply to find the most expeditious way of proceeding. Thank you.

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Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Yes, Mr. Speaker. My question was not for a requirement of an expansion of the R.C.M.P. My question was, has the Department of Justice initiated the development of a program to train local by-law officers or individuals, within the communities, to perform some of the policing duties that cannot be performed because of the lack of R.C.M.P.?

I do not think my question was answered. Has the Department of Justice, or is the Department of Justice developing a local initiative program that would allow by-law officers or others to act in a policing capacity where there are no R.C.M.P.?

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Supplementary To Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Further Return To Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 949

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I apologize for missing the question. As I understand it, none of the communities who are without an R.C.M.P. are asking for an auxiliary force or a replacement type of officer. What I understand is that every community that is not enjoying a

R.C.M.P. officer at this time, is making that request, to get an R.C.M.P. officer.

The Government of the Northwest Territories with the R.C.M.P., for some years now, have worked on an initiative, especially where there are one man detachments and possibly more than one R.C.M.P. stationed, that we will get into a program that will see a voluntary or auxiliary force trained by the R.C.M.P. that could be used in those communities, so that the communities would have input into their own policing.

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Further Return To Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Question O787-12(2): Action To Increase Policing Services

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 950

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 950

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed towards the Minister responsible for Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs . It has to do with your statement, the Minister's statement. I am glad that he is at this meeting, however, I am concerned because I represent a portion of the Northwest Territories that is not included in this committee that he has.

If this committee is going to be the driving force for community transfers and self-government models, then I am very concerned that the people that I represent are going to be left out. It seems to me that the people that are in this group have to accept the federal government's land claims approach, and at the same time denounce Bill Erasmus and the Dene Nation before they are included in this group.

We have chiefs in my region that have strong views on self-government as well as community transfers. I know that Bill Erasmus is there, but if this is the case where you have chiefs in different regions represented, then I would like to ask the Minister if he could include the Deh Cho chiefs in these discussions, especially if initial work plans and interim budgets are being considered? If Members of this committee want to have the opportunity to address this House, I think they should be included as well. Would the Minister indicate to the House if the Deh Cho and the region would be included in this committee? Thank you.

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Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 950

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Kakfwi .

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Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 950

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, when this was first brought up...

---Translation not available

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Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 950

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Maybe, Mr. Kakfwi , if you just give it a couple of minutes, or couple of seconds here to see if they can resolve this. Okay, Mr. Kakfwi , maybe you could try it again now.

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Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 950

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

(Translation) Mr. Speaker, yesterday we had a meeting with a number of people, and I would like to say something about it. Mr. Antoine had questioned me about it. When we first established this committee there was just a certain number of people that were sitting on it, there was Roger Gruben from the I.T.C.; and the Dene Nation, Bill Erasmus as representative; Gary Bohnet from the Metis Association; a Member from the M.L.A.'s; and a Member from the Ministers.

The people that were sitting on the board were aboriginal people, there were people from up the Beaufort Sea, from the Metis Association and from the Dene Nation. If we were to have self-government, how would we handle governing ourselves? Further into these discussions the Gwich'in have decided that they would like to have their own self-government, and no longer be included with the Dene Nation. They would like to have their own representation from amongst their own people. So, it was agreed upon.

Not long after that, the Sahtu region decided that they wanted to have their own representation for their own self-government system. They wanted to have their own representative from their own region. So, they were included within the group. Since this spring, we have not had meetings together, so, yesterday when we were finished here, we had a meeting at 6:00 p.m. When we all gathered together the Dogrib Nation also joined in, and they also said that they wanted to have their own representation.

So, they are now included with their own representatives to speak on their own behalf. As you may know now the Dene Nation and Metis Association are not fully representing the whole western Arctic. The Gwich'in have their own board, the Dogrib have their own board, and the Sahtu region have their own board. Yesterday, when we had this discussion the Dogrib delegation came in, said that they would also like to be included with this committee, and to have their own representation.

Also, the Chipewyan from Fort Smith, Fort Resolution and other communities of Chipewyan speaking people have not said anything to date, so we think that they wanted to be represented under the Dene Nation, and the Chiefs all got together, they were from the Gwich'in nation, and from the Sahtu region. They were interested in finding out what was being discussed, they just came more as observers, just to see what was being discussed in the meeting.

As Jim was saying, for the Deh Cho region, there are a lot of communities, the chiefs also want to represent their own people, speak on their behalf, and I am not one to speak for them, but if they all feel that they would like to represent their own people in that, I think that this will work out well, if it is agreed upon.

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Supplementary To Question O788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 950

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

(Translation) Thank you Steve, for informing me. I feel this is very important, if we are going to talk about it. I am representing the people from the Deh Cho region, I cannot sit back and not say anything, I have to speak about it. The people that are sitting on the committee, when they are talking about a constitution, one of the M.L.A.'s, John Todd , from the Inuit land, has said what he thought about it, and I also want to express what my constituents feel. I felt that they were left out. This is why from here on, if there is going to be a committee, I would like the Deh Cho region to be involved.

This is why I am asking if there is going to be a committee, I would like the Deh Cho region and the council to sit in amongst them.

Speaker's Ruling

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Supplementary To Question O788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 950

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

I am cautioning Members in oral questions, if you could pose a question preceded by a short

preamble, that was much more in the way of a statement, Mr. Antoine . In future, if Members could try, a short

preamble, then pose the question. Mr. Kakfwi , if you would like to respond.

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Further Return To Question O788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

Stephen Kakfwi

Sahtu

(Translation) Mahsi Cho, as I had mentioned before, the meeting that we had yesterday, if we have meetings like this and not everyone is not included, I do not feel right about it. I feel that if everybody is equally represented from the Inuit, and the Gwich'in, and from the Sahtu region, and everybody that was in that meeting all felt the same, that the next re-election for the Legislature, when the time comes, that will be discussed. In the next couple of months, the discussion will begin, but for now, what is felt to be important is government transfer of powers, and jobs.

It is felt that for this reason funding is very important. What will be the process of this self-government, and of obtaining funding? They felt that this should be discussed right now. This is the more important issue at this time, and as myself being a Minister, I feel that it is not proper for me to be discussing such an important issue, and how much money should be allocated, until formal discussions take place. I feel in that way it is right, but I think that no decision should be made for any communities.

If it is worked on in this way, there is a lot that could be benefitted through discussions in this process. How the Gwich'in, the Inuit, and the Chipewyan would all discuss how this process of self-government should happen in the communities, and in the future, how we would all work together, and come up with this whole self-government issue.

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Question O788-12(2): 0788-12(2): Inclusion Of Deh Cho Chiefs In Committee Of Political Leaders

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Thank you. Oral questions, Mr. Dent .

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Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism . Mr. Speaker, we have heard a great deal of talk and speculation concerning the performance or, perhaps, more aptly put, the non-performance, of the Northwest Territories portion of the Canadian pavilion at Expo '92 in Seville. Last fall we heard that it was going to cost us maybe $1 million. Recent reports have got closer to $4 million dollars. Mr. Speaker, to ensure that we have an accurate picture of our financial position, will the Minister table up to date financial statements for facility at Expo '92?

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Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker.

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Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Supplementary, Mr. Dent .

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Supplementary To Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary for the same Minister, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister is no doubt fully briefed on this issue, and right up to date. He probably has the latest figures in his little black briefing book. So, Mr. Speaker, I was wondering if the Minister will table this information this week, so that all Members, and the general public, will have an accurate account of the G.N.W.T.'s financial liability to date at Expo '92.

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Supplementary To Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

John Pollard

Hay River

I will table those documents on Friday, Mr. Speaker, thank you.

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Further Return To Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Question O789-12(2): Financial Statements For Expo '92 Facility

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Oral questions, Mr. Zoe .

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Question O790-12(2): Public Accounts' Recommendation Of Strengthening Roles Of Deputy Minister And Comptroller General

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

Henry Zoe

North Slave

Merci, Mr. Speaker. My question will be directed to the Minister of Finance . Mr. Speaker, our Standing Committee on Public Accounts tabled our report on June 25 in the House, a recommendation was made pertaining to the roles of some of the senior officials. Specifically, Mr. Speaker, the committee wished the Minister of Finance to take action into strengthening the roles of the deputy minister and the Comptroller General, and to make these two offices more independently functional, so they can have two separate functions. I want to ask the Minister of Finance if he has taken any action to our recommendation.

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Question O790-12(2): Public Accounts' Recommendation Of Strengthening Roles Of Deputy Minister And Comptroller General

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

The Speaker

Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Pollard .

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Question O790-12(2): Public Accounts' Recommendation Of Strengthening Roles Of Deputy Minister And Comptroller General

Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 951

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are presently two proposals somewhat restructuring the Department of Finance, and how it works. These proposals were in existence before the report of the Public Accounts Committee, and consequently, they were being dealt with in the system. Then the Public Accounts Committee made their recomme