Debates of March 9th, 1995

This is page numbers 549 - 579 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library.

The word of the day was education .

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Tabling Of Note

Rent Scale Implementation

Winter Road Season Extension

Commercial Fishing Of Turbot

Comments Made During Debate On Nursing Profession Act

Recognition Of Pages From Keewatin

Implementation Of New Rent Scale

Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Dialysis Machine For Stanton Hospital

Barriers Faced By Unilingual Northerners

Extension For Closure Of Winter Roads

Error In Rent Scale Notice

Illegal Use Of Alcohol And Drugs In Fort Smith

Apology Offered By The Minister Of Maca

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Lower WCB Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Purchase Of Dialysis Equipment For Stanton Hospital

Rural And Remote Housing Program

Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Problems With Airport Lighting System In Gjoa Haven

Potential Revenues From Diamond Mine

Acquiring Responsibility For Processing Security Clearances

Status Of Baffin Hamlets' Deficits

Negotiated Contracts With Inuit-owned Companies

Rationale For Changes To Social Housing Rent Scale

Verification Of GNWT Employee Credentials

Status Of Maximum Secure Facility For Nwt

Briefing On Prince Of Wales Northern Heritage Centre Library

Regulations Regarding Diamond Mine Operations

Revert To Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Bill 19:

An Act To Amend The Elections Act, No. 2

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Bill 17:

An Act To Amend The Nursing Profession Act

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Members Present

Mr. Antoine , Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq , Mr. Dent , Hon. Samuel Gargan , Hon. Stephen Kakfwi , Mr. Koe , Mr. Lewis , Mrs. Marie-Jewell , Ms. Mike , Hon. Don Morin , Hon. Richard Nerysoo , Hon. Kelvin Ng , Mr. Ningark , Mr. Patterson , Hon. John Pollard , Mr. Pudlat , Mr. Pudluk , Hon. John Todd , Mr. Whitford , Mr. Zoe

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---Prayer

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Item 1: Prayer

Item 1: Prayer

Page 549

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 2, Ministers' statements.

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Minister's Statement 37-12(7): Tabling Of Note

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 549

Kelvin Ng

Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday afternoon, the honourable Member for Baffin Central tabled a personal note that I sent to her. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to the Member for any unparliamentary language the note may have contained or for any offence which may have been taken to its contents. Thank you.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 37-12(7): Tabling Of Note

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 549

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin .

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Minister's Statement 38-12(7): Rent Scale Implementation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 549

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the past few days, there have been a number of concerns raised by MLAs about the implementation of the rent scale. I would like to make a statement today about the rent scale implementation and to assure Members that we are hearing their concerns, and acting on them as we become aware of them.

The implementation of the new rent scale is a very big job. There are approximately 5,600 tenant households in 50 communities across the NWT whose rents have to be assessed. The old rent scale had not been updated since 1983 and needed to be changed. CMHC, our federal funding partner, advised us that change was needed or they were going to cut almost $6 million annually from our funding. The new rent scale received the broadest consultation of any Housing Corporation or government policy. It was reviewed with community groups, housing associations and authorities, mayors, MLAs and was discussed with the Special Committee on Social Housing made up of Members of this Assembly.

Notices of the change to the rent scale have gone out, as required under the Residential Tenancies Act, one month prior to implementation. Members of this Assembly have stated that some constituents are having trouble understanding the notice. There seems to be a difference of opinion on the translation of the document. Where it has been determined that a tenant has not understood the notice because of translation problems, a further one month's notice will be allowed.

---Applause

The tenant will receive counselling in the language they prefer so they fully understand the rent scale changes. We anticipated that all tenants would have to be individually counselled. This is why we have put notices in the newspapers, on TV and on the radio. To date, approximately 50 per cent of the 5,600 households have been counselled and this number is increasing rapidly. Staff from the local housing organizations have reported that tenants are coming in for counselling and to have their new rents assessed. Our local housing authority staff have been asked to make a special effort to ensure that Inuktitut speakers fully understand the new rent scale.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 38-12(7): Rent Scale Implementation

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 549

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Todd .

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Minister's Statement 39-12(7): Winter Road Season Extension

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 549

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week my colleagues in this House impressed upon me their concern over the scheduled closing dates for the winter roads. I committed to reviewing their concerns with the department and modifying the

schedule of dates, if appropriate.

As I advised the Members at that time, the decision to close the roads earlier than normal was mainly a financial one. That hasn't changed, so any modification to the

schedule must minimize the expenditure of funds. With this understanding, I am prepared in several locations to provide a short extension to the season.

---Applause

On the winter road to Rae Lakes and Lac La Martre, the department will remove its heavy equipment but leave the road open to travel for an additional 10 days, to March 25th, unless the weather forces an earlier closure. This will allow an additional window for moving in materials for a number of Economic Development projects that are planned for this year.

---Applause

On the roads to Aklavik and Tuktoyaktuk, the department will remove its heavy equipment but leave the road open to travel for an additional three days, to April 24th, weather permitting. This will allow intercommunity travel for the purpose of attending community carnivals scheduled for that weekend.

On the roads linking Norman Wells, Fort Good Hope and Fort Franklin, the department will remove its heavy equipment but leave the road open to travel for an additional 10 days, to March 25th, unless the weather forces an earlier closure. This will allow an additional period for intercommunity travel.

Spring road conditions in the southern Mackenzie Valley are more difficult than on other sections of the system. There is more risk of environmental damage at stream crossings and the effort required to maintain and then close the road is greater. The clean-up will require stable road conditions to complete and must therefore be carried out before the road begins to deteriorate. I am therefore unable to make any changes to the closing date for the

section of road between Wrigley and Fort Norman.

The access roads to Jean Marie River, Nahanni Butte and Trout Lake already enjoy some of the longest operating seasons on the winter road season. With this year's early opening, Jean Marie River's season has only been reduced by a couple of days and Nahanni Butte's season is a week and a half longer than normal. Nevertheless, I am prepared to extend the season by 10 days, to March 25th. Again, heavy equipment will be removed, but the road left open for travel.

I hope that these changes, while not perfect, will help to alleviate some of the concerns that the Members have raised.

---Applause

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Minister's Statement 39-12(7): Winter Road Season Extension

Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 550

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Todd . Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson .

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Commercial Fishing Of Turbot

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to make a statement about a flat fish with funny eyes called a turbot, or Greenland halibut. This fish is very important to Canada these days because there are no cod left but turbot still exits in some abundance in deep, cold Canadian waters. This is a fish that has been especially significant for the people and fishery of Pangnirtung in recent years.

Mr. Speaker, these days, the Honourable Brian Tobin, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans for Canada is making big waves in the international community, fighting foreign fishermen who are invading our waters to take Canadian turbot. Mr. Tobin is getting tough with these foreign fishermen and yesterday they were driven off by his threats that they would be boarded and seized by Canadian naval vessels if they try to catch our turbot.

Today, I would like Mr. Tobin to understand how my Inuit constituents and other Inuit who want to fish for turbot in the Baffin see the turbot fishery and see his heroic fight against the aggressors from away. Last year, eight Inuit HTAs and Inuit companies from the Baffin region applied for new licences to catch turbot in their coastal Arctic waters, relying on the clear Inuit preference to adjacent fishery resources spelled out in the Inuit land claims agreement.

They, too, were competing with an invasion, however, but an invasion of a different sort: applications for turbot licences in Arctic waters from within Canada. What did Mr. Tobin do to protect the Inuit applicants from an invasion from southern Canadian fishermen? Not one of the new Inuit licence applications was approved.

Mr. Speaker, when Inuit from Baffin Island asked for protection from an invasion of southern Canadian license applications to fish turbot in their waters, they got no protection. The southern Canadian applicants received preference to come up and fish in our waters. Most were from the Minister's own home region of Newfoundland and Labrador. Of the licences given out for fishing 5,500 tonnes of turbot in Arctic waters last year, existing Inuit licence holders from Baffin and northern Quebec got 1,250 tonnes. The remainder of 4,250 tonnes went to southern Canadian invaders.

I'll ask for a bit more time, Mr. Speaker.

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Commercial Fishing Of Turbot

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Iqaluit is requesting unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Complete your statement, Mr. Patterson .

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Commercial Fishing Of Turbot

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Members. When these valuable licences were given to southern Canadian fishermen to catch turbot in our Arctic waters, my Inuit constituents felt the same way as I believe Mr. Tobin and many Canadians feel now about foreign fishermen exploiting Canadian resources off the Grand Banks.

I want to say I applaud Mr. Tobin for his aggressive stance with the foreign invaders, but this coming year let him apply that same zeal to respect the Inuit land claim and allow Inuit applicants from communities with high unemployment to be protected from having outside companies move in to harvest our turbot in our Arctic waters.

---Applause

Thank you. I fervently hope that in future, Mr. Tobin will be as aggressive in fighting for the rights of indigenous Inuit licence applicants to fish turbot in Arctic waters as he has been aggressive in fighting foreign turbot fishermen invading Canadian waters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

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Commercial Fishing Of Turbot

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 550

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements.

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Comments Made During Debate On Nursing Profession Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Marie-Jewell made these remarks while dealing with the Nursing Profession Act, and I quote, "There have been comments that the timing is right for this bill because it's International Women's Day. I found those comments to be a little bit chauvinistic."

I admit, Mr. Speaker, I was one of those Members guilty of pushing to deal with this bill yesterday. Although I have not been accused of being chauvinistic, I admit to making the comment that we should accomplish something concrete and practical as a Legislature on International Women's Day. My comment may have sounded chauvinistic. However, there are 28 women in a program right now who depend on the passage of the Nursing Profession Act. Ten of those women are living in my constituency, Mr. Speaker.

They wrote me a letter urging me to push for quick passage of this bill and they are: Sharon Nahanni, Olga Mercredi, Debra Wilson, Christine Brewster, Jason Nault, Della Napayok-Ell, Lucy Tulugarjuk, Margaret Baker, Jennifer Menzies and Catherine Lauzon.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, every day we hear criticism of our parliamentary system of government; it's no good, it can't do anything. I think yesterday will show that we are a very responsive Legislature. If it simply needs to be done, we can get it done in a speedy and responsible manner. I don't believe it matters to our students what process or what arguments are ever used to achieve the passage of a bill that people would like to have. And if it takes chauvinism to make 28 women happy, it's a very small price to pay.

The 28 students can now relax and give their full attention to their studies and not have to worry any more about what we do in this House...

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Comments Made During Debate On Nursing Profession Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

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Comments Made During Debate On Nursing Profession Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

...except to give third reading and to get assent to that bill. Thank you.

---Applause

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Comments Made During Debate On Nursing Profession Act

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Todd .

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Recognition Of Pages From Keewatin

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to stand today to recognize two young people from the Keewatin who are serving as Pages at the Legislative Assembly this week. I would like to introduce to all the Members, Ms. Inukshuk Aksalnik from Rankin Inlet, Jennifer Sheetoga from Whale Cove. They both attend the Maani Ulujuk Secondary School in Rankin where Inukshuk is enrolled in grade 9 and Jennifer is in grade 10.

These young women were selected by the staff and the student council of the Maani Ulujuk School, based on a number of factors including their academic achievement, attendance at school, attitude, willingness and their interest in learning more about how our Legislative Assembly functions -- although sometimes I'm concerned about that.

---Laughter

Like the parents of these young women, Martha Aksalnik of Rankin Inlet, who has been a friend of mine for 25 years, and Philip and Eva Sheetoga of Whale Cove, I am very proud that they've been selected to serve in the Legislative Assembly as Pages. I would ask that you join with me in welcoming these two young students to the House. Thank you.

---Applause

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Recognition Of Pages From Keewatin

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Pudluk .

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Implementation Of New Rent Scale

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was to make a statement regarding some of our business from yesterday concerning the rent scales. I, myself, didn't comment too much yesterday on the debate because I was aware that the Minister has been working on this for some time and it has been under discussion by many different committees.

People in the High Arctic have a concern about this. While they are aware of the processes of government, they have this particular concern. At the time housing was provided for them by the federal government they were never told that their situation may begin to change in the future. This has caused a lot of pain for the constituents up to this date.

I want to express my gratitude to the Minster for providing an extra month before the implementation of the rent scales, to enable accurate information for tenants whose rent might change. In his responses to questions yesterday, I was not very happy with some of the answers. It seems that the Inuit would have to go to the local housing associations to fill out application forms to implement the new rent scales. My main concern is for the elderly who are only able to read in Inuktitut according to what they understand.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Implementation Of New Rent Scale

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Pudluk .

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Implementation Of New Rent Scale

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 551

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and colleagues. My concern is mainly about the elderly people who can only read in Inuktitut. People who are older had the understanding that they didn't need to go to the office to give information. There are a number of communities that have received this information, as far as we understand. I checked into this this morning, and some of the communities have already received this information. Although they've made a slight change to the translation in Pond Inlet, the other communities seem to have the same information that was first sent out.

This will continue to be a concern for my community. Obviously, they won't be able to return to their old ways of living. We know that the implementation will take place and that the translation will be changed. The correct information will be passed out and, as was mentioned by the Minister, they will be working closely with the local housing organizations. I am grateful for that. The rent scale is something that I can't really fight against, but the Inuktitut translation should have been readily understood and not distributed because it confuses people in the Baffin, Keewatin and Kitikmeot. For those reasons, I would like to ask the Minister to issue an apology. Thank you.

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Implementation Of New Rent Scale

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent .

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to talk a bit about the Prospectors' and Developers' Association of Canada conference, which took place earlier this week in Toronto. This is probably the largest mining conference in Canada, bringing together players from the mining industry from not just Canada or North America, but from all around the world.

Mr. Speaker, at this year's conference there were a large number of delegates from Yellowknife and region: the mayor and a few aldermen were there; representatives from the Dogrib Nation; representatives from the Yellowknives Dene Band; and, probably more than 30 business representatives.

Mr. Speaker, we were there, generally, to talk about and promote mining in the north; to let companies know that we want their business, but that there are conditions. As the Premier said in her keynote address to the conference on Monday night: "Northerners respect the need for a mining company to achieve a healthy bottom line, but northerners expect mining companies to respect our bottom line. The need for environmentally-sensitive operations, which provide real benefits for northerners."

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, the northern presence was impressive, helping through our numbers to build interest in the north. The Yellowknife economic development authority presence was really well noted with a large polar bear fronting their booth, which attracted a lot of attention.

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

Do they have polar bears in Yellowknife?

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

They were spreading the word about the north, too, not just Yellowknife.

---Applause

In fact, Mr. Speaker, I should point out that they had pictures of other communities in their display.

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear.

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, a lot of good contacts were made by northerners, which hopefully will turn into economic contracts. Contacts happen from casual conversation on the conference floor, from direct approaches at display booths, or at formal meetings set up during the conference. I would like to commend the mayor of Yellowknife for ensuring Yellowknife's Dene representatives were included in the meeting set up by the mayor with people considering the potential for establishing an operation in the north.

Others, including myself, were invited by Mr. Zoe to a meeting at which the Dogrib Nation representatives discussed economic opportunities. So there was real cooperation between the broad cross-section of conference attendees from the north.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Dent .

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and honourable Members. Mr. Speaker, I know that the mayor and members of the business community are very happy with the results of the conference and I am confident that we will see economic benefits for the north as a result of our participation as a group in this important conference. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent .

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Prospectors' And Developers' Conference

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Charles Dent

Yellowknife Frame Lake

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford .

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Dialysis Machine For Stanton Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 552

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, like many Members in this House, I am concerned about the health of our constituents and about the level of care and the quality of service they expect to receive in the Northwest Territories. I have been a supporter of the Health Minister 's efforts to ensure that our Stanton hospital is able to provide both the routine and specialized services required by northern patients.

Mr. Speaker, our colleagues will recall that I asked the Minister of Health , some time ago, about the purchase of a state-of-the-art dialysis machine for the Stanton hospital. At the time, I emphasized the plight of northerners who were suffering, not only from debilitating kidney disease, but also from the necessity to travel south in order to receive any treatment that they would require for kidneys, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, from the time I first raised this question with the Minister to the present time, I have been interested in learning the progress made and to obtain more information about the numbers of people affected with renal disease and to what degree they are suffering.

Unfortunately, I have found it frustrating when questions regarding this matter often received somewhat guarded responses from Department of Health officials and hospital staff. I am sure that any unnecessary delays must be heartbreaking to those who have such a serious reliance on dialysis treatment.

In any event, Mr. Speaker, there are at least four cases that I do know of where our residents must live in the south in order to obtain dialysis treatment. It seems likely that there must be similar cases from the eastern Arctic of those who also must travel and live in the south for kidney treatment. Although I do not have firm figures yet, I am almost certain that if these treatments were available here, it would be a cost-saving measure for this government.

As I did in October, I will urge this government to establish a renal treatment program here in the Northwest Territories and to repatriate our northern patients back to the north. I will have some questions for the Minister of Health later on, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Dialysis Machine For Stanton Hospital

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ningark .

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Barriers Faced By Unilingual Northerners

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, education and training are a very important part of our everyday life, not only in our jurisdiction but throughout the world. Mr. Speaker, there are employees of government and other agencies who work in different fields. Some are carpenters, plumbers, mechanics and equipment operators who want to further their education or training. The government has been able to accommodate these people up to this point in time and we appreciate that very much, Mr. Speaker.

But there are barriers for people who are unilingual in this particular jurisdiction. This morning I received a call from one of my communities; the mayor called me and told me that there is a gentleman who lives in Gjoa Haven who is an airport maintainer and wants to be able to take

part in the airport maintenance training program in Baker Lake. He is very ambitious. He wants to take it because he has been working for the airport for many years. He is very confident and is, in fact, one of the better maintainers I have seen in that area. But, he's unable to go to Baker Lake because he's unilingual. He was told that the program is available and he requested an interpreter. But according to him and the information of the hamlet of Gjoa Haven, an interpreter is not going to be provided.

In this day and age, I would believe that government would provide trained interpreting and translating services, especially in the eastern Arctic where the majority of people who are potentially going to be taking training programs are unilingual

and only speak Inuktitut. At the appropriate time, I will be asking the Minister questions about this. Thank you.

---Applause

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Barriers Faced By Unilingual Northerners

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Pudluk , point of order.

Point Of Order

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Barriers Faced By Unilingual Northerners

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Ludy Pudluk

High Arctic

Mr. Speaker, I know we all have been elected by the people and have to go by the rules. Ordinary Members' statements should only be two minutes and some of the Members have no time limits. I think we should follow the rule. Thank you.

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Barriers Faced By Unilingual Northerners

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Just to clarify, I was watching the time and it was one minute, something. Members are allowed two and a half minutes and I understood the Clerk Assistant to say that he did not go beyond his two and a half minutes. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine .

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Extension For Closure Of Winter Roads

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like thank the Minister of Transportation and his department for allowing a short extension to the winter road openings. On behalf of the people in the small communities who depend on winter roads to get in and out and to buy supplies and so forth, I would like to say that the few extra days are certainly going to help. The community of Nahanni Butte, Mr. Speaker, is presently doing an experimental logging project on the Liard Highway, and the men from the communities use the community of Nahanni Butte as a transport base of every morning and evening.

The logging project is until the end of March so the extension of the opening of the road to the end of March is certainly going to help them.

As for Jean Marie and Nahanni Butte, I know Jean Marie is trying to bring a store into their community and, with the extended time period, they might be able to get the work done and bring in their supplies before the roads close. The few days of extension are certainly going to help all the communities.

To close, the community of Fort Simpson is having their Beavertail Jamboree March 17th, 18th and 19th and the open road will allow people from surrounding communities to come into Fort Simpson to celebrate. With that, I would like to thank the Minister and his department. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Extension For Closure Of Winter Roads

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat .

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Error In Rent Scale Notice

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 553

Kenoayoak Pudlat

Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The statement that the Housing Minister gave was good. If there were errors in Inuktitut and there wasn't going to be anything done about it...I'm sure the majority of the people didn't understand clearly and that it was going to take effect on April 1st. But, I seem to understand that he delayed it another month. If they already received the copy of the translation,

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Error In Rent Scale Notice

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat . Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Illegal Use Of Alcohol And Drugs In Fort Smith

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this afternoon I wish to provide comments on a matter that has certainly caused considerable concern to myself and to my constituents in Fort Smith. Mr. Speaker, honourable Members of this House frequently speak about community concerns over the illegal use of alcohol and drugs in their constituency.

Mr. Speaker, I share those concerns and for some time have become increasingly troubled by the illegal activity, such as the increasing availability of illegal drugs. Mr. Speaker, on December 12, 1994, I met with two RCMP officials in my constituency office in Fort Smith for a general discussion of these concerns and the RCMP plans for addressing the increasing potential of illegal drug use.

At the time, it was confirmed that from August 1993, there was a 58 per cent drop in the number of drug charges laid in Fort Smith in comparison to the previous years when the predecessor, Sergeant Gary Barnes, was the detachment commanding officer in Fort Smith. I would like at this time to commend Sergeant Gary Barnes for all his hard work and effort in addressing illegal drugs. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, he was so good he got promoted to Yellowknife.

However, Mr. Speaker, our meeting with the RCMP was very positive and several constructive solutions for proactive interventions were identified. Mr. Speaker, I was totally astounded when some four weeks later, a local news reporter indicated that he had been informed that the purpose of my meeting had been to provide the RCMP with a list of drug users and drug dealers in Fort Smith. I was even more astounded to learn that the source of this information had been the regional superintendent of Social Services.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say, in no uncertain terms, that this information was totally false. I have not compiled, disclosed or provided the RCMP with such a list. I seek unanimous consent to continue with my statement.

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Illegal Use Of Alcohol And Drugs In Fort Smith

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

The Member for Thebacha is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Illegal Use Of Alcohol And Drugs In Fort Smith

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 554

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and honourable Members. Mr. Speaker, when I confronted the regional superintendent of Social Services personally on January 9th, he indicated that this information -- this rumour -- had been the result of a conversation that took place between himself and the sergeant of the Fort Smith RCMP detachment in the local curling rink club bar. He indicated that the sergeant had suggested that there had been some pretty prominent names included in the alleged list. This, in turn, was information that the regional superintendent had chosen to share with others in my community.

Mr. Speaker, the clear connotation was that I had manufactured a list of alleged drug dealers in order to discredit certain prominent people in Fort Smith for political purposes. Again, I unequivocally deny this untrue rumour.

Indeed, I wish to inform the House that the "G" division of the RCMP has launched and has now completed a full investigation of this matter under

section 45-4 of the RCMP Act. The investigation revealed that the RCMP officer in question had informed the regional superintendent that there was no list. Later today, I will be tabling the report of this investigation.

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned about this incident on a number of levels. First, I believe that the irresponsible action of taking, fabricating and circulating this vicious rumour had the potential to place my family at some risk of harm from lawbreakers wishing to respond to this account through intimidation. In fact, during the early week of January, when this rumour was passed, my vehicle was vandalized several times and was damaged as a result of a hit and run, causing about $2,000 damage.

At the same time, Mr. Speaker, I am dismayed and disappointed that this sort of tactic once again appeared with a northern political context. The regional superintendent of Social Services has indicated to a number of Fort Smith residents that he is interested in becoming a candidate for election in Thebacha during this fall's territorial election. I wish him luck and I advised him that everyone knew that. I also indicated to him that that is democracy.

Some of my constituents have suggested to me that this incident may have been motivated by political reasons. Mr. Speaker, I believe that voters all across Canada are simply tired of election tactics that rely on character assassination. They are tired of innuendo and untruth. This sort of conduct only serves to damage public confidence in our electoral process.

My main reason, Mr. Speaker, for raising this affair today is because I am concerned -- I am deeply concerned -- about what it suggests about public service administration within our government. Perhaps, especially, in the Department of Social Services. We all know that many Members, including the Minister herself, have risen in this House to comment on problems surrounding the illegal use of drugs and alcohol in the Northwest Territories. There is a move afoot to enhance law enforcement capabilities in this area, when you take into consideration the complete reform of our liquor legislation.

Who could blame individuals who might have drug evidence from experiencing second thoughts about coming forward, when this action is likely to make them the subject of rumours and victimization. Mr. Speaker, I find this entire situation absolutely unacceptable and, unfortunately, since the Minister of Social Services is not in the House, I will give her this as notice that I intend to pursue this issue upon her return to the House.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank Inspector Roberts and Sergeant Douthwright for agreeing to meet with me on this important issue in the first place. I also appreciate the prompt action taken by the RCMP "G" division to act on my report of this incident. I sincerely regret any hardship or inconvenience that may have been caused for the Sergeant of the RCMP division of Fort Smith by this investigation, which became necessary as a result of conduct displayed by the GNWT officials. For complete clarification, I would like to emphasize that the investigation found Sergeant Douthwright's actions were proper and justified and that he did not violate RCMP policy.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to say that I hope the shameful actions of a single Social Services official will not discourage concerned members of my community and from all northern communities, from working together with law enforcement agencies; working together with parents and concerned citizens; with elected officials of this House; as well as locally to make a positive impact on the drug and alcohol problems that have been plaguing the Northwest Territories for too long. Thank you.

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Illegal Use Of Alcohol And Drugs In Fort Smith

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 555

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell . Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Mike .

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Apology Offered By The Minister Of Maca

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 555

Rebecca Mike

Baffin Central

Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I would like to apologize for being absent when Mr. Ng made his apology about his note to me. I was at a luncheon meeting that turned out to be longer than I had expected.

However, the context of the note he sent yesterday is confirmation of what I talked about in my Member's statement yesterday. I believe Mr. Ng would never send a note to a man with the word that he used in his note to me. I sincerely hope Mr. Ng learns from this lesson. I hope the second time around, he gets what my point was yesterday in my Member's statement. Thank you.

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Apology Offered By The Minister Of Maca

Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 555

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Mike . Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 216-12(7): Successful Bidder On Tourism Industry Review Proposal

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, I have three returns. I have a reply to a question that was asked by Mr. Koe on March 2, 1995 regarding successful bidder on tourism industry review proposal.

Mr. Koe asked about the contractor retained to do the review of tourism industry associations. Five submissions were received as a result of a "call for proposals" issued by the department. The proposals were reviewed by a panel of three, one of whom was from the Department of Public Works and Services, and assigned points based on:

- personnel expertise;

- methodology;

- past relevant experience;

- project schedule;

- fees and expenses as compared to estimate (includes BIP);

- past corporate performance;

- northern content (BIP); and,

- overall quality of proposal.

Proposals were ranked one to five, based on points assigned.

Mike Freeland and Associates was ranked first and was awarded the contract. In order to carry out this contract, this company will hire local residents to do interviews in the communities. In addition to Mr. Freeland, Mr. Mike Bell from Yellowknife, Mr. Doug Crapo from Calgary and Mr. Frantz Knudsen from Copenhagen will be doing some of the work. Mr. Crapo has worked on tourism strategic planning projects in Alberta and the Northwest Territories. Mr. Knudsen will be spending one day on the project, and has undertaken extensive tourism planning work in Greenland and is able to bring an alternate northern approach to the work.

The three top rated proponents all included some southern content. Mr. Freeland's proposal had the highest level of northern content.

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Further Return To Question 201-12(7): Review Of Wcb Rates For Construction Companies

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I have another question asked by Mr. Koe on March 1st with respect to WCB rates for construction companies.

Employers are classified on the basis of the industry in which they operate, rather than the occupations of their employees. The administrative staff in every company supporting the main industry are charged the same rate as all other employees.

It is worth noting, however, that the construction rate decreased from $10.25 per $100 of assessable payroll in 1994, to $9.25 per $100 in 1995.

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Further Return To Question 194-12(7): Wcb Rates For Taxi Drivers And Staff

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 555

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Mr. Speaker, if I may, I have another question from Mr. Koe with respect to WCB rates for taxi drivers and staff.

Again, employers are classified on the basis of the industry in which they operate, rather than the occupations of their employees. Dispatchers support the taxi industry and are charged the same rate as taxi drivers.

Prior to 1995, taxi drivers were charged a flat rate of $365 per car. Claims costs arising from the taxi industry were charged to subclass 53, and the assessment is ground transportation. The board of directors asked that a review be undertaken to determine if taxi operations were paying their own way.

From 1990 to 1994, the revenue collected from the taxi industry was $69,184 compared to $435,964 spent on claims. It was apparent that taxi operations played a major role in the rate of subclass 53 rising from $3.25 per $100 in 1990, to $6.25 per $100 in 1994. The board of directors made the decision to charge taxis and dispatchers the same rate as all other employers in subclass 53. This decision resulted in a rate increase of $1.75 per $100 assessable payroll for all employers in subclass 53. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 194-12(7): Wcb Rates For Taxi Drivers And Staff

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 193-12(7): Impact Of Federal Staff Cuts On The Nwt

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 556

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Patterson on February 28, 1995: the impact of federal staff cuts on the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, the federal budget on February 27, 1995 announced significant reductions to the size of the federal public service over the next three years. In response to Members' enquiries regarding the effects of these cuts on federal employment in the Northwest Territories, I will be tabling later today a

summary of the personnel reductions which have been confirmed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 193-12(7): Impact Of Federal Staff Cuts On The Nwt

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Continue, Mr. Pollard .

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Return To Question 143-12(7): Percentage Of $1 Million Power Cost Carried By Other Communities

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 556

John Pollard

Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on February 23rd of the Premier . It concerns the percentage of $1 million power cost carried by other communities.

Mr. Speaker, the low water rider to collect $1 million from communities outside of the Yellowknife Snare system is not being billed out on a percentage basis.

Rather, it is assessed as a flat rate charge of 0.6 cents per kilowatt hour to all customers outside of the system.

Customers within the Yellowknife system will be paying an additional $3.3 million in low-water rider costs. Depending on their classification, customers will pay between 1.2 and 2.5 cents extra per kilowatt hour.

Under the Public Utilities Board decision 13-94, collection will continue until November 30, 1995, or until the required amounts are collected, whichever is earlier.

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Return To Question 143-12(7): Percentage Of $1 Million Power Cost Carried By Other Communities

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 556

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Antoine .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 556

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize people from Fort Simpson; Mr. Ernest Cazon and Mrs. Rita Cazon. Mr. Ernest Cazon is the subchief of the Liidli Koe First Nations in Fort Simpson. Mahsi.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 556

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Whitford .

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 556

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and colleagues. I would like to introduce in the gallery, Mildred Wilke, again. Mildred is the Yellowknife coordinator of the Kidney Foundation of Canada, NWT/Alberta branch for the fund-raising campaign that's under way now. She is here to listen in on the questions that will be asked dealing with renal concerns.

---Applause

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Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 556

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark .

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Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 556

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct my question to the honourable Minister of Transportation . Mr. Speaker, to follow up on my Member's statement that I made earlier, I know the honourable Minister is a proponent of making life easier for all people of the NWT, as he has spoken to me about on many occasions both in private and sometimes in public. I also know that sometimes the honourable Ministers do not always know what is going on under their noses. Sometimes they are kept in the dark by their sidekicks or subordinates, Mr. Speaker.

According to my Member's statement, I know there is going to be a maintenance training program for airport maintainers in Baker Lake, which is to be on March 29, 1995. I would like to ask the honourable Minister if he is prepared to have an interpreter for a gentleman from Gjoa Haven who wants to take

part in that training program in Baker Lake. Thank you.

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Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Minister of Transportation , Mr. Todd .

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Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If the gentleman from Gjoa Haven is attending the training centre in Baker Lake and requires translation services because he's unilingual, then I'm sure arrangements will be made. If they're not made, I'll ensure they are made. Thank you.

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Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Ningark .

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Supplementary To Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

John Ningark

Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the honourable Minister for that positive response to my question. Will the Minister direct his staff to communicate with the hamlet council of Gjoa Haven to find out if the gentleman is attending, as I was told this morning? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I would be only too happy to do that. I would like to point out that the reason the Cabinet decided to put the training centre in Baker Lake was to do exactly that: to accommodate both bilingual and unilingual northerners in this important program. So I will communicate to the department post-haste the concerns that they take whatever actions are necessary to accommodate this gentleman from Gjoa Haven. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Question 284-12(7): Provision Of Interpreter At Maintenance Training Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Lewis .

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Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when I walk to work every day I pass by the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre. I was involved with this project at it's very beginning. I spent many hours at the Prince of Wales Heritage Centre archives. I've learned this week that the librarian position is being eliminated. I would like to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment how this will affect the service to myself and many other researchers who come from other parts of the country who have enjoyed this very good service in the past.

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Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment , Mr. Nerysoo .

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Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There will be no reduction in services. I believe the deputy minster should be here as part of the budget review, because he can answer some of those more technical questions. There will be no reduction in the services, but what will happen is there will be a reassignment of responsibilities to other staff in the museum.

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Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

I will leave my detailed questions for later. There are still some policy issues with the Minister, Mr. Speaker. Recently, Mr. William Mills, who is the librarian of the Scott Polar Research Institute in Cambridge, England -- this is the library of close to 6,000 northern books, many of them very rare and very valuable. Although he has visited libraries with large collections of northern books in Ottawa, Winnipeg and Calgary, he found ours in Yellowknife to be the best in this country. That is the reputation that our northern library has.

Since the library will no longer have a librarian, I would like to ask the Minister if there is no one who is trained to look after it, what are the future plans for this world-class library?

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Supplementary To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Minister.

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Further Return To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The fact is that the honourable Member is misleading the House by suggesting that we are not going to take care of the books. The fact is that the deputy minister and the staff have made the suggestion that there is a different and more appropriate way of providing those services to the public. And if I have offended him by stating he was misleading the House, I apologize to the Member.

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Further Return To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Lewis , supplementary.

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Supplementary To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

I will let you and my colleagues judge whether I am misleading the House, Mr. Speaker. Since there are no plans to add to the collection by purchasing new books or by acquiring donations which have to be very carefully looked at, catalogued and so on -- for example, the forthcoming very important book on the Dogrib culture -- this collection will in fact remain static. Is it therefore the policy of the government that they want this library to die?

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Supplementary To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Further Return To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 557

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

No, Mr. Speaker, that is not our intention, to make or create a situation where the library dies. There are a number of factors that the honourable Member is not taking into consideration: one, there are cultural institutes that are being created in other jurisdictions -- whether or not it is the Inuit Cultural Institute, the Dene Cultural Institute, the Educational and Social Cultural Institute created by the Gwich'in claim, the Sahtu agreement -- so in every situation it is different. The problem with having to respond to an issue of

this particular type is that we have to recognize that we are part of those agreements and we have to work through these issues with them. As such, I believe we are making the best resolution to this particular matter -- from an organizational point of view -- and I have to rest my final decisions on the judgement of the deputy minister and his staff in my department.

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Further Return To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Final supplementary, Mr. Lewis .

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Supplementary To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Brian Lewis

Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I realize that, as a government, we are going to have to make some big decisions before 1999 about division of assets and so on. I would like to ask the Minister, in light of the comment that he just made about the various cultural institutes around the territories, whether in his vision he has plans to decentralize various bits of this collection so that whatever appropriate bits could belong to this particular group of people will be allocated to different regions in the territories. Does he have a vision?

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Supplementary To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo .

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Further Return To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Richard Nerysoo

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to say to the honourable Member, I think the vision comes from the fact that we are reviewing our heritage legislation right now, to give us some indication of the direction that we should be going in this area. Right now -- as the honourable Member knows and he has been well aware of the information -- our legislation does not allow us to set any direction.

The honourable Member will also be aware that part of the direction we wish to go is toward the whole issue of ensuring that there is some mechanism for charitable donations. Now, in light of that, I think we also have to be aware that, from an archival perspective, we have a lot of archival work to do and information that has not been catalogued to date. We are still at a point where we have not put together an overall position in that area. So I think it is because of a combination of those issues, along with the work that still needs to be done and advice based on the financial resources that we have, that we have had to reallocate and reassign the responsibility accordingly.

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Further Return To Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Question 285-12(7): Effect On Librarian Services From Elimination Of Position At Museum

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question 286-12(7): Lower WCB Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister of the Workers' Compensation Board for the information on the rates charged to construction and taxi businesses. Mr. Speaker, in raising the issue initially, my point was that the administrative staff who work for construction companies, and dispatchers who work for taxi companies are being charged the same rates as their respective industry and the Minister confirmed that.

I respectively submit that the risks associated with sitting at office desks or at a dispatch desk are relatively lower than driving a taxi or hammering nails. I would like to ask the Minister again whether he has asked the Workers' Compensation Board to investigate whether there could be different rates charged for administrative staff in the construction and taxi industries.

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Question 286-12(7): Lower WCB Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Transportation , Mr. Todd .

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Question 286-12(7): Lower WCB Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I did speak to the chairman of the Workers' Compensation Board and asked him if he would advance the issue that Mr. Koe raised with the board of directors and see if they would consider an arrangement that would place that administrative function in a separate category. I have done that, but I have no quantitative response as to what decision the board of directors will take. Thank you.

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Question 286-12(7): Lower WCB Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 286-12(7): Lower Wcb Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Question 286-12(7): Lower WCB Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. When the committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions reviewed the Workers' Compensation Board, this issue was raised, where possible different rates are charged for different types of work done within a specific company. Again, I would like to ask the Minister would he take it upon himself to ask the board, which he is responsible for, to investigate this issue and come back to this House with a response.

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Supplementary To Question 286-12(7): Lower Wcb Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Question 286-12(7): Lower WCB Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Further Return To Question 286-12(7): Lower Wcb Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Question 286-12(7): Lower WCB Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While I am legislatively responsible for the WCB, it is an independent group of directors that make decisions based upon the kinds of actuary reports they get. Because after all, it isn't public funds that they use, it is private sector funds that they use; I think it is important to say that. I have asked the chairman of the Workers' Compensation Board if he will ask the board of directors if they will consider reviewing the concern that has been raised by Mr. Koe and, in fact, it has been raised by others over the years. When I receive a response, I will report to the House and Mr. Koe on that response. Thank you.

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Question 286-12(7): Lower WCB Rates For Administrative Staff In Construction And Taxi Businesses

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Whitford .

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Question 287-12(7): Purchase Of Dialysis Equipment For Stanton Hospital

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 558

Tony Whitford

Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Health but, in this case, I will direct it to the Minister of Finance . Mr. Speaker, I spoke

earlier on about the requirements of some patients in the Northwest Territories: dialysis treatment for kidney problems. We are aware that there are a growing number of northerners who are suffering from kidney ailments for one reason or another. I have been trying to get more information but it's slow in coming. We do know that there are at least four patients in Edmonton getting this treatment. I asked earlier on whether or not it would be practical and economical to return those patients to the Northwest Territories and include dialysis among our services offered at Stanton.

I would like to ask the Minister if he would be able to update me on the status of a purchase of dialysis equipment for Stanton Hospital.

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Question 287-12(7): Purchase Of Dialysis Equipment For Stanton Hospital

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Question 287-12(7): Purchase Of Dialysis Equipment For Stanton Hospital

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, the Financial Management Board has given the Minister of Health , Madam Premier , approval to go ahead with the purchase of dialysis equipment and set the program up at Stanton Hospital. It will start this year, I believe around September, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

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Question 287-12(7): Purchase Of Dialysis Equipment For Stanton Hospital

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Housing . Mr. Speaker, I would like to know whether or not there is still availability of a housing program called "rural and remote." Thank you.

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Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation , Mr. Morin .

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Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not that I know of. Thank you.

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Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There used to be a program called "rural and remote" and quite a few of my constituents took advantage of the program at the time. The program provided for a 25-year mortgage, and 25 per cent of your income went towards the mortgage. I believe this program has been discontinued and that was my purpose of asking. I would like to know, since there have apparently been a few of them, whether or not there has been any indication from CMHC to the Minister of Housing about addressing the

outstanding rural and remote units for individuals who have taken advantage of this program in the past. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I was in Fort Smith some time ago, some of the Member's constituents raised the issue of the rural and remote program to me, as well as some constituents of Mr. Nerysoo 's in Fort McPherson, and people in Inuvik and Iqaluit. We have tried to work with CMHC to see if they would write off the program and flip it into a program similar to what is now offered by the Housing Corporation. To date, CMHC has refused to approve a write-off, and it would cost us approximately $3 million if we were to pay out CMHC on behalf of those clients.

So, I've asked the Housing Corporation to look into it further, especially for people who are getting on in age. One person in Fort McPherson -- and I forget her name -- lives in a house and continues to pay 25 per cent with no cost-of-living adjustment. She has to pay her power and electricity as well. Others must be in the same boat. They are paying a higher cost than their neighbours and we're trying to get something drafted to write off the amounts for rural and remote that people have been paying faithfully over the years. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell .

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Supplementary To Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that reply. Could the Minister advise the House when he anticipates a paper being presented which considers the write-off of the rural and remote program? People are paying exorbitant amounts and some have been unable to pay because of the continual increase of costs. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin .

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Further Return To Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

Don Morin

Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Housing Corporation has a fairly heavy workload right now, but this has been one of my priorities. Since the honourable Member for Thebacha has brought it up, I will resurrect it and try to get it done as soon as possible. Clients out there are suffering from high mortgage rates, especially clients who are paying them. Some have not paid at all, and they will be addressed differently. There are even some who have leased out their units and we will have to address that as well. But we will try to help those who are attempting to own their own home as best we can. Thank you.

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Further Return To Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Question 288-12(7): Rural And Remote Housing Program

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 559

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe .

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Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Finance . In the Minister's budget speech, he mentioned, briefly: "becoming more self-sufficient." This was a very short section, about six lines long. The Minister stated that: "We have to become less dependent on the federal government and we have to raise more of our own revenues. At the moment, we have a limited capacity to do so and we have been living with a financing formula which discourages initiative and self-reliance."

Mr. Speaker, in the matters of raising taxes and arrangements with the federal government, I believe this is called a perversity factor. I would like to ask the Minister if he can explain what the perversity factor is.

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Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Dennis Patterson

Iqaluit

In 25 words or less.

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Return To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I hope Ron Irwin doesn't read these debates. I promised him I wouldn't say the "p" word because it gets the federal government excited. Mr. Speaker, when the formula was put together, it was deemed by Canada that we should maintain 85 per cent of the average tax rates across southern Canada, which includes personal income taxes, corporate taxes, tobacco taxes, property taxes, et cetera.

What happens if we fall behind? The federal government says you should have been able to achieve that and they lop that off of our grant. They automatically take it from us. I should explain again, Mr. Speaker, -- Mr. Patterson asked for 25 words or less, but it's difficult to do that -- what happens is if there is a volume increase in taxation in the Northwest Territories -- which means more people are working and paying their incomes taxes -- then for every extra dollar we receive in that particular revenue, the formula takes $1.30 from the formula financing agreement for those revenues inside the formula.

So, putting more people to work in the Northwest Territories actually works against us in that respect. That's it, sort of, Mr. Speaker. It's highly technical and I could send the documentation to Mr. Koe , who I know is an accountant and who could probably wade through the pages. But, that's it, in a nutshell, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Return To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Yes, I would appreciate the information, if I can get it from the Minister. It is really curious that if the population increases and we hire more people -- and we say that our industry is going to grow, especially in mining -- for every dollar of tax we collect, we will lose $1.30. That doesn't make sense. I would like to ask, what is the Minister doing to try to change this situation?

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Supplementary To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, we have been discussing this particular matter with the federal government. I want to be fair to the federal government and I want to tell people that any tax increases that we have put in place, since 1989, the increased portion comes to us outside of the formula. It becomes very technical because as the volume increases, if you put more people to work at those tax rates at the time the 85 per cent was established, then we lose $1.30 out of the formula. But when we increase taxes, we gain that outside of the formula.

So my preference would be to make a new arrangement with the federal government that would see some incentive given to us for putting people to work. I think that is in the best interest of Canada and people in the Northwest Territories.

I will give you another example. In Mr. Koe 's area, there was a lot of oil and gas activity some years ago. Under the existing terms of the northern accord -- I am talking about the one that was sent to us several years ago -- we would have to wait 10 years for development before we got revenues coming in. Yet, the taxes of general application would start to come in and they would act in a perverse fashion against the formula. So there is another issue with perversity that needs to be worked out with the federal government with regard to the northern accord.

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Further Return To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe .

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Supplementary To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

Fred Koe

Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the past several years, Members of this Assembly have been making suggestions about developing a northern package, a package to be negotiated as part of the financing formula arrangement. There were many aspects to it. The Minister mentioned some. What is the status of the negotiations on the current financing formula agreement?

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Supplementary To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard .

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Further Return To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 560

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, yes, I think the term "package" was put upon this arrangement by the Standing Committee on Finance. The package arrangement concerned a number of things: it concerned the health billings dispute, the grants in lieu of taxes and a number of outstanding issues that we had with the federal government that we wanted to clear up. We have been nibbling away at those negotiations and coming to some agreements with Canada. The outstanding issues in the package are what happens at the time of division with the formula. Will there be incremental funding available at the time of division and can the formula

deliver that incremental kind of funding? Can we sort out the issue of the northern accord and any other transfers that may come to us and have them not affect us in an adverse fashion. All those things have yet to be worked out. We have managed to settle some of those small things along the way. Health billings is not small, but it is one of the things we had to get by.

In the next round of negotiations, which will occur some time after I meet with Mr. Martin, we will be trying to say to them that this package should be changed in these particular ways to reflect these particular concerns. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Further Return To Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Question 289-12(7): Explanation Of "perversity Factor"

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine .

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Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Finance . It is with regard to the issue of the northern accord. There are Members in this House who are really pushing to have this northern accord concluded by May or June. I have some concerns about that. The northern accord is supposed to generate revenue for this government. Yesterday, the Government Leader stated that she told the mining conference that it is going to generate money to Education, Health and Social Services, et cetera. In the research I am doing, the present regime won't really generate that much money to any government.

What is the percentage of royalties the federal government gets from all the oil, gas and mineral activity that is going on in the Northwest Territories today? Thank you.

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Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance , Mr. Pollard .

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Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

John Pollard

Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I would ask that the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources answer the question. He is the lead Minister on the northern accord, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

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Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources , Mr. Todd .

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Return To Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To Nwt From Mining Activities

Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

John Todd

Keewatin Central

I stand to be corrected, but I believe at the present time that the royalty regime is somewhere around 12 per cent. The Member is correct, under the current regime, the benefits to the Northwest Territories and to all people are minimal. That is why we are moving forward in an orderly and, hopefully, cooperative way to reach a satisfactory arrangement with the aboriginal groups and then move forward to the federal government and try to have this responsibility transferred. That way, we can look at a new royalty tax regime that would be far more benevolent to the Northwest Territories and the federal government than the current one is. Thank you.

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Return To Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To Nwt From Mining Activities

Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine .

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Supplementary To Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To Nwt From Mining Activities

Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

Jim Antoine

Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Minister for that reply. However, I was asking more of a technical question and he may not have it at his fingertips. What is the 12 per cent in terms of dollars? Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To Nwt From Mining Activities

Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd .

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Supplementary To Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To Nwt From Mining Activities

Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

John Todd

Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is a good question. I am afraid I will have to take that question as notice. I don't want to give an inaccurate response, but I believe it is somewhere in the $8 million to $9 million range. But I would prefer to take that question as notice, and then give the Member a more accurate reflection of the current revenue that is raised under the present mining regime. Thank you.

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Supplementary To Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To Nwt From Mining Activities

Question 290-12(7): Federal Royalties To NWT From Mining Activities

Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 561

The Speaker

Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr